Alticor Media Blog

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March 18th, 2008 @ 6:28 pm ET…

Unfair competition

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Quixtar today filed a complaint against MonaVie, a Salt Lake City-based company that sells a handful of juice products through a network of distributors, and several MonaVie distributors. MonaVie is standing idly by while its distributors attempt to lure representatives away from other direct selling companies—including Quixtar—in violation of Quixtar’s non-compete policies and in violation of other companies’ non-compete and non-solicitation rules.

We know Quixtar Independent Business Owners (IBOs) have been approached by MonaVie distributors and solicited—in clear violation of Quixtar’s rules and putting those IBOs in potential violation of their contracts with Quixtar. But Quixtar IBOs know that the company vigilantly protects their businesses by enforcing the company’s non-compete and non-solicitation rules, thereby protecting IBOs’ hard work by not allowing others to raid their groups.

Quixtar reached out to MonaVie to make them aware of the actions of their distributors and to ask for their cooperation in enforcing their own policies and respecting Quixtar’s contracts. After initially agreeing to work with Quixtar to resolve these issues without reservation, on March 17 MonaVie filed a lawsuit, without warning, asking a U.S. District Court to find that it has not interfered with Quixtar’s contracts.

Quixtar filed suit to protect and defend IBO businesses. In addition, Quixtar’s complaint alleges unfair competition on the basis of false claims made by MonaVie and MonaVie distributors.

Quixtar takes line of sponsorship (LOS) issues very seriously because the LOS is the foundation of the Quixtar business. Any IBO who is solicited by anyone including former Quixtar IBOs—regarding another opportunity is encouraged to contact Quixtar at qbcr.department@quixtar.com.

Filed by: Corporate Communications

Posted in: Quixtar

273 Responses to “Unfair competition”

matt Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
if your business is so good why do you care?
Gene Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Why are you, Amway/Quixtar suing Mona Vie? Mona Vie like Quixtar/Amway, Herbalife, Mary Kay and other wholesale distributors, the corporation does not know the background of every distributor or prospective distributor.
The attitude of the company that is portrayed on this blog is not of a company that I or others would want to do business with.
Sue distributors that wish to leave, sue companies that have former distributors, threaten lawsuits to present distributors…
All bad for business in my estimation.
But I guess being sued by a billion dollar company can be a form of flattery.
Eric (AEM) Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Apparently any compitition is unfiar compitition in the eyes of Quixtar. Having a better compensation plan, reputation and approach is not unfair. It’s free enterprise.

And if you were so interested in protecting your LOS you would not have changed the name back to Amway.
deann Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Crybabies !! Get over it. You think you can even determine what OTHER companies claim about THEIR products and compensation plan. You call it unfair competition ? False claims indeed….like you’ve never claimed anything that YOU couldn’t prove.
CRY BABIES….WAH-WAH-WAH !!
Lee Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Quixtar - This is so grade school. Continue the spit-ball fight, Like Mama used to say, “You’ll put your eye out.” At the least, your on the road to alienating what… all of North America, Canada, The Northern Hemisphere, The World?
Lee Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Oh Yeah - Keep up the “Good” Work!
Barbara Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Who are you kidding??? If you were really protecting the businesses of your IBO’S you wouldn’t have changed the game midstream, you would have lowered your prices to be more in line w/competition, you’d stop the intimidation and the threats, stop your game playing, and above all reel in the ARROGANCE!!!!!! With every lawsuit you throw out there it becomes clearer and clearer what your REAL MOTIVES are….and that is to try and trip TEAM up at every turn. You just can’t accept the fact that so many of your people are leaving you!!! Or maybe that’s what it’s all about - you want the North American business to dry up….after all Asia is where most of your business is anyway. I give up trying to make sense of all your lawsuits - they certainly don’t reflect that of a company who is looking to attract new business and IBO’S.

We (TEAM) will survive whatever it is you want to throw out there and we will be stronger for it!!! When the music stops where will you be???
great lady Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Come on Quixtar/Amway - get off your paranoia.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. If someone wants to leave one agency and go with another, it is their business. You are wasting your time and a lot of money with this nonsense - LET IT GO ALREADY.

Note to “Tex” - any one with a drop of common sense could see from the first meeting that the way to make money with (any) mlm is through the seminars, books and cd’s. So, my dear, go out and write a book, sell it through your mlm and make your money.
john Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
If your company is “the best business opportunity” in the world as you absolutely know it has been touted as by your kingpin distributors, then why can’t you let people decide what to do with their own “independent” businesses? Instead of creating a “best” business that would attract and keep people, you simply continue your course of litigating others in to financial ruin. And how is that you can possibly accuse another company or distributor of “false claims” when you know that your kingpins have for decades been portraying their idolistic lives of luxury as the result of their Amway/Quixtar bueiness when in fact their fortune is from fleecing their downline with redundant tapes and functions. Alticor, you are the epitome of hypocrisy.
Utah Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
I doubt this is both sides of what is going on, but of course, this IS Alticor’s spin site. If the announcement was from the Op zone blog, it would carry more weight.

MonaVie, prior to Quixtar filing against MonaVie in February, had no Federal filings listed. Currently, just Quixtar, not including Alicor and Amway has dozens.

http://dockets.justia.com/search?q=Quixtar

There is missing a step.

“MonaVie initially agreeing to work with Quixtar to resolve these issues without reservation..”

Was this before or after Quixtar filed in Federal Court in February to force cooperation?

A Quick search online says IBOs have been leaving Q/A to go to MonaVie for years. I would guess they have waited their 6 months and signed up. The timing shows up after OW decides he thinks MonaVie is where it is at. Not a coincidence?

In the past, Q/A has gone after former IBOs if they felt like they didn’t follow their contract, or just to harass, It is hard to tell from the outside for sure.

Since Quixtar has no Contract with MonaVie, but only former IBOs, it would lead me to guess that any smart Utah judge would throw out any of Quixtar’s 3rd party filings/suits against MonaVie. I have not seen any reason for MonaVie would be drawn into this 3rd party suit.

“false claims made by MonaVie”?

I have not been to any of MonaVie’s introduction seminars nor contacted by a MonaVie distributor, but their rules state that they have to provide, and even display on big boards information about MonaVie earning and stats that Q/A doesn’t release, so I think this is just someone wanting to be a bully.

It will be interested to see how Q/A fairs in Utah, where there are more competing MLMs headquartered here than I think anywhere in the US. Q/A is certainly not on it’s own turf here.
MichMan Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
**** We know Quixtar Independent Business Owners (IBOs) have been approached by MonaVie distributors and solicited—in clear violation of Quixtar’s rules ****

Is MonaVie under contract with Amway? If not, how is it possible that MonaVie violated Amway rules?

Does Ford sue GM for trying to entice Ford drivers to switch to GM?
this_is_crazy Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
You guys are seriously sad. What an enormous waste of time and money. Can we not all please get over this and move on?

It’s becoming absolutely ridiculous. I suppose you ought to sue Mary Kay, Shaklee, and Pampered Chef as well because I was approached by their distributors while I was a Quixtar IBO. Good grief.

Pardon me while I now go over to the IBO Defense Fund’s website and make another contribution.
sk Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
cry, cry, cry, cry, why don’t you give it up, hey I bought laundry detergent, tooth paste, and toilet paper from Wal Mart yesterday, hey when are you going to slap a law suit on them???? They are competing with Amway/Quixtar your company is becoming the laughing stock of retail/direct sales. When are you going to wake up and realize YOUR PR is destroying your Amway company!!!!!!
tom Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
WOW, I was NEVER approached by Monavie. I am however going to build that business if for no other reason to prove that THEY have a WAY better compensation plan (one from the 21st century) than I was involved with for 13 years with Amway/Quixtar. I thought I would walk away from Amway with bitter sweet feelings but the more you OPEN your mouths the more I detest your company. Good luck in North America.
freeman Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Give me a BREAK!!!!!!! Amway is a huge joke now, you better start looking at your ABO’s who are left because I know of many who are in other networking business (not Monavie by the way) so you better start sending corp into the households to look for other products.
Shaun Carter Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 12:20 am
This storyline just keeps getting better and better. I am really starting to wonder if it will ever end and how many lives Quixtar, TEAM and everyone else involved will destroy by the time it’s all said and done.
Steve In Texas Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 12:43 am
The way you guys file lawsuits, I think you should rename the company to Quick-suit!

While your at it you might as well file suits against Walmart, K Mart, Sears, JC Penny, Cosco, Sports Clips, Dunhams, Academy, Barns & Noble, GNC, AutoZone, Best Buy, and Dairy Queen. I hear TEAM members were seen buying products from these companies over the last six months. It must be a conspiracy! This has got to be unfair competition!

Might I suggest you quit wasting your time trying to pin your company failures on the TEAM. Its seems like you know your in a free for all so your setting up your excuses for failure in advance. (It was all that nasty TEAM’S fault) If you really cared one bit about your IBO’s you would be spending your time fixing your company rather than harrassing TEAM and now MonaVie.

Hey it just dawned on me… There is no Arbitration agreement with MonaVie. Looks like you fellas are about to be exposed in open court. Ooooh Snap… thats gonna leave a mark! Tell us how that works out for ya!
matt Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:15 am
Hey, I had a guy the other day come up and ask me if I was looking for other business opportunities. He suggested that we go into business together and start a internet website. It’s not a mlm, and this guy I have known for years. But, I figured since I was quixtar distributor I thought I would let you know so you could go prosecute him and file a unfair competition suit against him too. I can give you his name and stuff if you need it. I really didn’t like you guys, but since you guys like me so much and want me to stay, even against my will, I figure I would oblige you…because I am that stupid.
Thanks for nothing
Matt

I figure you guys will get lots of these stupid emails…I just want to know one thing, without TEX coming in and barging…

So, admin…

when i think about unfair competition, i think about steroids in sports or something like that. But what exactly is “unfair competition” in business speak. Is it like a bunch of nampy pampy losers sucking their thumbs and crying about a competing company? Is it walmart suing kmart and target because they steal each others customers? That’s a little extreme right?

So what grounds do you guys stand on for suing another company…one that hasn’t competed unfairly at all, since, to my knowledge, no former ibo has signed with monavie without waiting the required 6 months?

I guess if we were in a communist country, unfair competition would mean death by firing squad. but since we are here in america, and people fight for our freedom, “unfair competiton” sounds like a crying whining baby, suggesting that free market and capitalism shouldn’t exist.

i mean, isn’t it great that you can compete against other mlm’s? what if they filed suits against you, for unfair competition? well, then you would be waiving the flag all proudly, happy to be doing business in america.

How do you put “fairness” in business anyway? the only thing that i hope will happen is this… microsoft made it big because they stole proprietary info from apple. nothing else…just used someone elses work. but, have you seen apple today. they changed, adapted, and are doing well today.

perhaps, if people are leave in mass quatities, there is something wrong with your company or products. if you change and make it better, you would probably find more people coming back.

quit your whining and create something better, that’s the beauty of the consumer…they are driven by value and cost. you make something better, and you won’t have to fight to keep people in, they will come willingly.

I’m no multimillion dollar business owner, but i do have some common sense. common sense tells me that you have lost the fight…and common sense tells me that if you keep fighting to keep the people in that want to leave, you will only make their hatred and disgust larger and deeper than before.

but it appears to me that you guys didn’t take the common sense course in college, and think that the quixtar regime will live forever.

common sense says let go…

common sense says have honor in your defeat

common sense says create a better product

common sense says respect your customers and affiliates

common sense tells me you have no common sense
wondering Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:18 am
Sue Monavie because of health claims by the leaders? It’s not right to have youtube videos explaining the benifits of thier product? Why not search youtube for “perfect water” IBO tipping? can you say hypocrite? Just curious, is anyone leaving Monavie and violating thier 6 months by coming to Amquix?
Big Bob Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:36 am
Quixtar/ Amway/ Alticor full of it. Anyone who does there own research can easily find all the facts needed see this.
Also, LOS is not and never will be the foundation, property or trade secret of Amway or any other business. The leadership of great men and women is the backbone of success!
White Knight Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:42 am
Congratulations to Quixtar and the Legal Team for trying to resolve the issues quietly and privately. Too bad Mona Vie filed the law suit. Wonder what they have to hide?

It is imperative that the LOS is protected from the looters and rule violaters.

If someone wants to leave feel free but live up to the rules and the contract you signed.
Utah Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 7:26 am
“Slightly” different tone..

http://onthemove.monavievo.com/

“Recently, some individuals (previously with Quickstar/Amway) chose to join MonaVie. Once their respective non-compete agreements have expired, we will welcome them one at a time to the MonaVie family. All MonaVie distributors are required to abide by our Policies and Procedures. We ask that individuals who have non-compete obligations to another direct selling company honor those obligations. As a company, we are 100% committed to ensuring the long term success of MonaVie. At no time would any distributor, or group of distributors, be allowed to circumvent our Policies and Procedures.

“As evidence of how strongly we feel about our commitment to operate with the highest level of integrity, we’ve recently altered our online application. We now ask each new MonaVie distributor to verify that, by joining us, they are not violating the Policies and Procedures of any other direct selling company with whom they may currently be, or have previously been, affiliated.

With statements like those above from it’s President, why the Federal filings? It sounds like MonaVie is just trying to protect itself. It could learn how to spell Quixtar, but that could be solved with a phone call, not a lawsuit, in my opinion.
Monster Mash Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 8:36 am
How long is the non-compete? 6 months - right! 6 months has passed for most former IBO’s - let it go! The TEAM has “Just GOne”.

Corporate Communications: What is the problem here? It says 6 months. 6 months was up for Orrin on February 9, 2008. That is 6 months. Orrin never personally contacted me to leave that INDEPENDENT BUISNESS, but I am following. My former upline, whom I contacted told me to make whatever decision I choose.

Too me it sounds like AMWAY is scared.
Mike Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 8:53 am
This is an unfortunate time for your company and its leaders. You continually do all you can do to discredit and tear down other individuals and businesses. Instead you should shift your focus on making your own opportunity better for those that are part of your business. The levels to which you have lowered yourself is embarrassing to you and those who represent your business. Maybe you should take a look at the damage you are causing yourselves and stop blaming everyone else for your lack of results. Its called being brutally honest. Stop the bullying and the childish insults and move forward focusing on your future.
Jeremy Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Whats wrong Q? Affraid that people want to see what a real business looks like? We dont need your Ibo’s, I can go back to any of my friends who said no/never to Q. You can see where this is going.
Clint Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 9:28 am
The child-like behaviors of this corporation astonish me! This just reminds me of all the idiocy surrounding the RIAA and music stuff.

Why doesn’t quixtar/amway spend their time and money making a better business so people won’t want to leave?

This post is just another example of how ibos are quixtar’s property!!

This company is going down fast and is just trying to hit everyone on its way down.
ThunderSTRUCK Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 9:44 am
……and the hits just keep on comin’….
Clint Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:14 am
The lawsuit filed by Alticor is this: (taken from http://www.utd.uscourts.gov/reports/cvcases.txt)

Quixtar v. Mona Vie Inc et al 2:08-cv-00209-DB
Judge: Benson
Cause: 15:1125 Trademark Infringement (Lanham Act)
Nat Suit: Trademark

Here’s a link to the Lanham Act. Read it before you post bogus claims and arguments on this blog. http://www.rkmc.com/Lanham_Act_Also_Applies_to_False_Advertising_Claims.htm
Utah Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:15 am
I haven’t read the Quixtar lawsuit.
(Link please)

I have just read the MonaVie one, and agree with what they say. Quixtar (or more likely Alticor) shouldn’t be suing MonaVie as far as I can see. MonaVie is just trying to be left alone. It has required people to hold them harmless and to not violate others contracts, and has recently added a full page of things to sign if someone wanted to be part of them, that should protect Q/A. So why the suit?

I am not a MonaVie distributor, nor have I knowingly spoke to one, nor do I know of anyone that signed up in violation of the 6 month rule, nor do I know of anyone asking IBOs to sign up with them in violation of the 2 year rule.

Who are the 31,000 IBOs?
Clint Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Here is the lawsuit that MonaVie filed:

MonaVie v. Quixtar et al 2:08-cv-00204-BSJ
Judge: Jenkins
Cause: 28:1332 Diversity-Personal Injury
Nat Suit: P.I.: Other
Chue Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Alticor, you are acting like the vindictive ex-girlfriend. I can’t tell you how ashamed I am that I was ever associated with you. Amway had a bad reputation here in the US already. Are you that delusional that you really think you are making it better?. Your actions seem to parallel those of Saddam Hussein. After the Kurds fought for their freedom, he did everything in his power to discredit them and everyone the associated with. Saddam was so afraid that others would seek freedom like the Kurds, that he attacked them as hard as he could, thinking this would cause so much fear in others, they would never consider seeking their freedom. What Saddam did not realize was that later those vindictive actions were what lead to his demise. Alticor, please take note, before all of your vindictive actions lead to your demise. In my opinion, the reason that you are being so vindictive against TEAM and anyone associated with them is to strike so much fear in current IBO’s that they would never think of leaving. You are paralleling the actions of a notorious dictator. It only makes sense that the results will be paralleled as well.
Signmeup Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Can we say I’m going black diamond baby
Courious Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Amway/Quixtar are crybabies.
Courious Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Everyone has the FREEDOM to earn a living for their families.
freeman Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 11:04 am
http://www.amquix.info/amway_perfect_water.html

False claims hugh…
gary v Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 11:10 am
I was made aware of the Quixtar vs Woodward and others mess through internet searching “leadership books”. Now Quixtar has their sites on another company Monavie? Are you kidding me? I have been a successful business man for almost 20 years. No it is not network marketing. I have never contributed to a blog before but I could not help myself. I can not believe how unprofessional Quixtar conducts business. It seems you are clinging on to a sinking ship. Why would you try to force or threaten distributors and now other companies? What do think will be gained by such actions? If I have a disgruntled employee or damaging business relationship I don’t want them in my organization. Plus I’m surely not going to continue to whine about it after they leave. Try taking the high road instead of hiding behind attorneys and fix Quixtar’s business model. Apparently the management needs to be seriously revalutated as well.
Armando Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
I applaud your ability to write this post without completely falling out of your chair laughing. The thought that someone would quit Quixtar AMWAY to join another business must be shocking……to NO ONE!!! The thought that after YEARS of not supporting their IBOs against attacks and web bloggers they have chosen this time to attack those who have been with them for so long is so hypocritical…..it certainly does not reflect the “christian” foundation of the company!

I guess it is time to check with the “Wheel of Fortune” to determine which way the winds are blowing at Quixtar/AMWAY today. First you wanted TEAM to go, now you want them to stay…you’re worse than an ex-girlfriend. You don’t know what you want!!!

Hey Quixtar/AMWAY don’t go away mad…..just G O AWAY!!!
deann Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
“on March 17 MonaVie filed a lawsuit, without warning”

Didn’t bother to mention this part, YOUR threat, did you ?

26. Notwithstanding, on or about March 14, 2008, counsel for Quixtar and Amway
communicated to MonaVie that MonaVie was “feeding the beast” and, consequently, that it intended to immediately file suit against MonaVie for tortious interference with contractual relations unless MonaVie terminated each of the distributorships of the alleged TEAM Leaders.
Why don’t you get it that we sat out..we waited 6 months, BUT THAT’S NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU…you now want to ruin each of us. Well, you are about to get a class action suit filed against you by 31,000.

YOU CAN’T HIDE THE MONAVIE SUIT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS…MV OWES YOU NOTHING, BUT IS PROBABLY GOING TO “PAY” YOU ANYWAY. THIS WILL BE THE PUBLIC RELATIONS NIGHTMARE THAT WILL BRING THIS ALL TO A CLOSE. IBO’S REMEMBER THIS DATE…THE DAY THAT YOUR COMPANY THREW YOU ON THEIR ALTAR OF EGO !
Jake Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
WE ALL KNOW WHAT IT MAKES WHEN WE ASSUME!

…… “MonaVie is standing idly by while its distributors attempt to lure representatives away from other direct selling companies—including Quixtar—in violation of Quixtar’s non-compete policies and in violation of other companies’ non-compete and non-solicitation rules.

We know Quixtar Independent Business Owners (IBOs) have been approached by MonaVie distributors and solicited—in clear violation of Quixtar’s rules and putting those IBOs in potential violation of their contracts with Quixtar.
jkooser Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
I have to say - I know nothing of MonaVie’s structure or recruiting practices. However, I do know that our business suffered the loss of 2 Platinum IBO’s and their downline LOS from active recruiting over an extended time period from the “TEAM” ventures (thank goodness it was only that small part of our LOS). Our organization has been on the grow since that time, very excited about the future, and although we do miss those who left - we bear no ill will towards them. In fact, we hope their ventures are successful because we care about many of those people even though we obviously have a difference of opinion on how to achieve our goals in life.

I believe that raiding groups of people for their LOS is unethical (in the kindest term) and illegal (or it ought to be) in the strongest terms. When people want to leave one opportunity for another they should follow the exit strategy allowed for in their contracts with their existing company - in this business model, it is to not renew, wait your time and then start your new venture free and clear. I also take issue with people who have left (of their own accord) still referring to themselves as “IBO’s” and ranting online how things aren’t ‘fair’ for them - I would certainly appreciate those individuals focusing on their future and quit railing about the situation they have put themselves into.

I really, really, really appreciate this corporation and the upstanding ethics they adhere to. Our sweat-equity built business has been such a blessing in our lives and the lives of so many others; Thank You Quixtar/Amway/Alticor for stepping up to the plate in the real IBO’s defense to stop unethical, and illegal raiding practices!!
john jay franklin Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
You mean you still have distributors who haven’t left? Wow, that is exciting!

About you guys suing monavie, is my name on that list of non-compete ibo’s? I truly hope so. You people are behaving quite poorly. I used to love your company, but all the actions over the last seven months has shown me that I should have checked in a little deeper into your company. Well, the truth is out now, you guys will sue anything that moves instead of trying to compete in the free market. That should tell everyone how competitive your company is today (not at all). I truly wish you and yours the best, and I hope you go back to your roots and become the company you were in the 50’s-80’s. That is the company that I would love to compete against. Good luck, I hope to see you soon.
Nunya Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
You go Quixtar! Can we see a copy of Quixtar’s filed lawsuit? I want to see how you are going to drown those Monavie DOGS!
Former Ohio IBO Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Almost 20 hours and no comments.
Hmmmmmm………
Are you even accepting comments? Or they so overwhelmingly negative you don’t want to post them?

Just wondering………..
IBO To Go Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
You have got to be kidding me!

The Quixtar lawsuit happy circus continues.

Orrin

TEAM

bloggers

Monavie

Mary Kay?

Arbonne?

Red Bull?

Nike?

Sony?

Jockey?

Kraft?

Tide?

Charmin?
nursegirl61 Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
WAH WAH WAH, WHAT A BUNCH OF CRYBABIES YOU ALL ARE….I’LL BET YOU WON’T POST THIS ONE, SEEMS TO ME LIKE THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL FROM US THAT YOU HAVEN’T POSTED RECENTLY…HMMMM I WONDER WHY?
Josh Dickerson Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Just surprised there are no comments here yet!
FORMER IBO Steve Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Ha ha ha. What a joke this all has become.

Will you please stop crying, wipe the tears from your eyes and move on. I think you guys have a lot of work to do to get “Amway” accepted in North America like you want. You don’t have time to be spending on chasing down 30-40K exIBO’s that don’t want anything to do with you.

The more you file lawsuits and bring this to the attention of the courts and gov’t officials the more likely you will end up having the entire non-compete, non-solicitation rule tossed out. When that happens you will see even more IBOs leaving the ranks.
Lonnie Kenny Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
My 6 month slavery term with Quixtar/Amway is officially over!!!! Bring on the juice! It’s time to move forward where the real opportunity is. I hope the clowns at Alticor rot in hell for their lack of character and integrity! Actually, I know that’s going to happen. Just not soon enough for my liking.
happy to be gone Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Amway/Q, you fire Chris and Orrin, you disparage their good names, you threaten all of the leaders associated with Team, and you tell us to “Just Go” on this blog and now it’s Monavie’s fault??????? Amway… get a life. And you may want to consider a complete corp. wide leadership change. This current group has no concept of how to lead… only how to whine and sue.
BILLY BOB Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
NO kidding.. Sorry about the competition. You have felt very justified for years in taking others from differant groups under the cloud you have the BEST BUSINESS IN THE WORLD (for the owners). HEHE I’m so tickeled.. Your going to get JUCIED!!!!! HEHE. Billions VS Billions. Can’t hide in abertaration now can you.. The world will now get to hear our side.

Print this……. Your going to get JUCIED!!!!
Wallace Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Hmm, seems to me that is Quixtar was a decent business opportunity, their community would stay…no? If people want to leave, LET THEM! What you are doing is borderline slavery and imprisonment in my eyes. ADMIT DEFEAT ALREADY. People, though you disagree, ARE smart enough to realize that Amway is a sinking titanic and are moving to WAY more VIABLE businesses. And you have to RESORT to lawsuits to try to retain then and FORCE them into submission. History shows that you CANNOT stop an idea who’s time has come, and you WILL NEVER win against a FREE people. Goliath, you WILL be felled by FREE PEOPLE! Live with it, go peacefully into the night, your time here is over.

P.S. The more of these you post, the worse you look, you are at least that intelligent….right? Or at least you would be if you picked up a book now and again.
Peace-to-all Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Build your biz don’t worry about other ppl!
If you want to make a statment make Q the largest corp in the world !
Fox Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Do we happen to have some sort of evidence about MonaVie intially agreeing to help Quixtar before filing the lawsuit, or was it just all a verbal agreement?
Proud to be a past IBO Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Grow up and quit whining.

The more you whine the more people leave.

From the way the corporation starts lawsuits it is apparent that the corporation believe money wins and that no person who was (or is) as Independant Business Owner had a brain and was capable of using it.

This is disgusting.
ME! Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
You guys just dont give up do ya? You can cry.. you can wail about what is happening. Monavie has not done anything illegal. If they have recruited any of your precious IBO’s then take it up with the people doing the recruiting.

What do you think that your going to accomplish by trying to sue anyone else aside from making you look like dopes again?
Big Bob Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
how come you’re not posting any comments?
huh? got any real reasons or just some excuses?
Lynn Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 1:12 am
WOW! It just never ends!
Big T Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 7:51 am
I wasn’t aware Q/A offered a product like Mona Vie. How in the world could this be considered competition?
On another note Mona Vie pays out 50%. Doesn’t sound like you can compete with that…or is that really the problem here?

Big T
Peter Chen Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 8:31 am
Testing if comments allows HTML. There should be a preview button. Please bring this up to webmaster or whoever is in charge of this blog

Peter Blog*Star
Blogger Tips and Tricks
Geary Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 9:16 am
Noted you “reached out” to your friends at Mona Vie … is that somewhat similar to how you’ve “reached out” to the 31,000 “infidels” identified in your helpful communication with them?

Wonder how much less expensive it would be to simply swallow your Corporate arrogance and actually “fix” the issues raised?

(of course that would mean a lot less work for Legal … but you might actually have a lot more “friendlies” when all is said & done)
Shannon Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh…. ya big babies!

Make your opportunity better than Monavie’s and you’d have nothing to worry about… I wonder what’s so tempting????
And who else files lawsuits without warning? hmmmmm… rough being on the receiving end, isn’t it???

Practice what you preach!
Shannon Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Do you check to make sure all your new IBO’s aren’t solicited away from another MLM’s with a similar non-compete agreement??? hmm??? is Mary Kay, Shaklee, Melaluca, Xango sueing you for their IBO’s that were in their precious protected LOS and didn’t follow their rules when leaving? Maybe I need to let Mary Kay know that one of your precious IBO’s lured me away from them and I didn’t complete my non-compete before joining your tyranical pyramid scheme.
Nomen Nescio Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
So instead of welcoming the challenge of fair competition and proving to the world that you could be the better entity, you take the low road and try to sue everyone out of your way. Typical.

Now, it’s easy to see that the people at Q*/Amway don’t read/understand Current Events as well as history. Case in point, the SCO vs. IBM/Novell lawsuit that left the plaintiffs in utter shambles, near Ch. 7 Bankruptcy, and delisted from the NASDAQ and NYSE stock exchanges. They couldn’t handle the competition that was doing better than them because they thought about themselves and managing instead of being the example and LEADING. And when they did that, everyone passed them on by. Sun Microsystems. Novell. IBM. So what did they do? They sued IBM and Novell, stating that they owned the rights to source code that IBM and Novell were using, even though that source code was free and open source to everyone. On top of that, they wanted IBM and Novell to present their code to the judge so they can comb through it and say what is theirs and what is not.

In the end, the judge got tired of it, accepted IBM/Novell’s countersuit, dropped SCO’s case, and had SCO pay all the costs for the cases. SCO was so scared of everyone passing them by, that their only shot at remaining anywhere near the top was to sue everybody else to bring them down.

Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?

So go ahead, VanAndel and DeVos. Sue MonaVie. Sue MaryKay while you’re at it. Sue Partylite. Just remember that for each and every time that you do (and you will LOSE, by the way), you are building the case against you for repeat violations of the Sherman and Clayton AntiTrust Acts for becoming a monopoly. You may think that you are winning all of these lawsuits, but in the end, your own doing will be the cause of your fall.
Utah Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
How low can you go Alticor?

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080318/cltu121.html?.v=49

You missed saying bad things about his dog in High School.
Bridgett Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
#26 Lonnie Kenny said, “I hope the clowns at Alticor rot in hell for their lack of character and integrity!”

Wow Lonnie, what I shining example you are of the TEAM Leadership Development Program.
Bridgett Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 12:06 am
So…I’m having a hard time locating Monavie on the Direct Selling Association website.

http://www.dsa.org/

Ya know, the DSA? Their mission is:
“To protect, serve and promote the effectiveness of member companies and the independent business people they represent. To ensure that the marketing by member companies of products and/or the direct sales opportunity is conducted with the highest level of business ethics and service to consumers.”

Hmmm, guess Monavie didn’t make the cut?
john Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 3:59 am
Alticor,
You accuse MonaVie of false claims. Who trained the WWDB diamonds to do the Perfect Water tests? Can you watch the “before” the drink pictures where the Diamond does not lean into the person’s body to keep it from tipping and the after picture where the Diamond is clearly leaning into the body to prevent it from tipping. Go to amquix and see your WWDB leaders in action. These tricks are older than the old water you are now remarketing as something new. Kind of like the Brand New Amway. It amazes me that you do what you do with a straight face.
Josh Dickerson Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 7:58 am
Thanks for finally posting all these comments. Its good to here what everyone has to say. Except that I want to also here the Q/A/A rebuttal.
Josh Dickerson Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:05 am
If there is a legite rebuttal that is!
nonprofit Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:42 am
The simple measure of a country, (or a business), is not only how many are trying to get out, but how many are trying to get in! I’m not seeing a large fan base here. But then when you run a pubic relations campaign like this, it’s understandable.

I’ve have to applaud Quixtar/Amway for doing their part to stimulate Michigan’s stagnant job market. Although opportunities for marketing and distribution at Q are on the decline, there will be many openings shortly in the high paying legal department, and exciting careers on the public relations team. Other openings will include anyone with some business sense, the job title has yet to be defined, but the need is apparent.

I can’t help but notice Tex’s absence. Has he move on to a higher paying position elsewhere? I miss his cynical wit and overwhelming people skills. Let me be the first to wish him well in his new endeavor! He will be missed…..

I’ve begun to wonder what the PV/BV is on frivolous lawsuits? It must have a high return as Amway/Quixtar seems to have laser focus on that product line. I’ve also noticed the many innovations in legal briefs they’ve pioneered! I have to admit they are blazing a trail in the industry, showing the creativity to create something out of nothing.

Lastly I’d like to thank you Amway/Quixtar for my daily chuckle. They say laughter is the best medicine and thanks to you, I’ll probably live forever. Your priceless antics are a never ending source of humor. Nary a day passes you don’t do something to tickle my funny bone. I can’t wait for tomorrow’s debacle!
Silence DoGood Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 9:38 am
Its too bad that the “LOS is the foundation of the Quixtar business” instead of character and integrity. If it were the other way around you could stop suing everyone and get on with trying to repair your imploded business! As it stands now you should make one more name change to “Devos, VanAndel & Mohr” law firm. Soon there will be nothing left but lawsuits.
YankeeIBO Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 9:59 am
Utah-#40,
Thanks for the link. If what Q* alleges is true, it puts the entire health supplement industry at risk. We are already in a fight, worldwide to maintain our right to choose natural alternatives to Big Pharma’s solutions. The FDA would like to see ALL supplements approved and regulated by the FDA (which is funded in LARGE part by Big Pharma), and dispensed only by prescription from your doctors. This is an offshoot of the International CODEX platform, and you can find out more at http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/health-freedom/

ANYONE who makes clinically unsubstantiated health claims about ANY product makes the probability that we are ALL going to be put out of business that much higher. Mona Vie has as much at stake if this is true as the rest of us, and should be held accountable for the actions of its distributors in this regard.

This applies equally to Q/AG, Herbalife, Mannatech, Arbonne, GNC, etc.
Clint Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:13 am
It’s laughable that you’re suing monavie over false claims when that’s exactly what you’re doing with your miracle water! You’re even teaching IBOs how to make it seem like it improves balance! Look it up, you’ll see. Wow, this company truly is going down and fast…
ben Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:18 am
It seems silly to me that anyone could “raid a LOS”. If you are a good leader then the ppl that follow will come with you whether you like it or not. Does it not occur to anyone that the leadership of the team has acted in accordance to the wishes of the entire organization, all the way down to the new person? Don’t you believe that TEAM leaders were pressured into this by the majority of the TEAM who were asking over and over, why don’t you do something to get as far away from Alticor as possible?

Over a year ago I have a personal friend former TEAM member who after getting to platinum left because he said “TEAM training and comp plan is awesome but Q’s comp plan sucks and I’m leaving and starting a Gogi juice business”. He is doing very well and still gets team leadership training materials to implement in his new venture. Guess what TEAM leaders said to him? They said he should be careful of the non compete and not to come around to any more functions, thats it. You know what? He took his friends and family with him without waiting a week. Good for him!

Hey Quixtar, why don’t you sue Himilayan GOJI juice while your at it.
Jeff Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:19 am
To # 22

I just downloaded a movie…..Do you think I will be sued by “Fanista”? Oh no what have I done??
my2sense Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Hey orrinites,
welcome to buisness!!! This is why people go to college,get a degree,work with codes,areas,tributes,and guidelines.This is not, listen to a tape, tackle someone at wal-mart.This is the real thing.If Orrin had someone sue him over a dispute in his patents, he would not threaten them with fire,brimstone,and say that God is on his side.He would take it to the courts!!
———–TADA———
john jay franklin Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 1:38 pm
I want to make sure that I understand your point here, so please correct me if I am wrong. Are you really suing monavie because their independent distributors did not read and follow Quixtar’s book of rules of conduct? For instance, you wrote “We know Quixtar Independent Business Owners (IBOs) have been approached by MonaVie distributors and solicited—in clear violation of Quixtar’s rules”, so those MONAVIE distributors are bad for not reading QUIXTAR’S rules, right? And why just monavie? When I was with Q, I was contacted by someone with pre-paid legal, and they KNEW I was a Q slave, uh, IBO. Are you suing them next?

Also, if I were asked to join the Wal-mart business would that count when you say “Any IBO who is solicited by anyone including former Quixtar IBOs—regarding another opportunity is encouraged to contact Quixtar”? Well, in your defense, you did not say business, you said “opportunity”, so if I were solicited by my friend for the opportunity to feed and clothe the poor, should I call you? Are you really saying that anyone that is affiliated with Quixtar is not allowed to see any other opportunity at all? Someone please clear up these statements, because I am really confused. Thanks!
Brad Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 1:55 pm
This is foolish. Enough already; let it go. You guys must have the worst case of scarcity mentality ever.
Utah Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Why, with all the bad things people are saying about your suit re: MonaVie, is my post from March 18th post still not released?
David Jados Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Ahh does Amway/Quixtar need a bottle. I can’t wait to see who Alticor is going to sue next.
Maybe stores that sell Monster, Redbull, Rockstore because that would be a competing business. Or maybe they will go after Walgreens, or Rite Aide because they sell Vitamins and other stuff that can prevent diseases or cure things.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 5:58 pm
I read the lawsuit, and it appears MV is interested in having a judge declare the non-compete illegal, but if they are not successful in that effort, their rules are clear it is not MV’s fault, it is each former IBO’s fault. Trouble is, they don’t want to cooperate in this matter, and that’s another problem.

Utah #1,

Point?

Monster Mash #2,

The 6 month time period ended recently, and Quixtar is trying to find out whether TEAM IBO’s signed up prior to their 6 months expired. Also, Orrins’s 6 months was apparently extended by at least 45 days.

Sounds to me like AMWAY is enforcing their rules.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Mike #3,

This is an unfortunate time for TEAm and its leaders. You continually do all you can do to discredit and tear down other individuals and businesses. Instead you should shift your focus on making your own opportunity better for those that are part of your business. The levels to which you have lowered yourself is embarrassing to you and those who represent your business. Maybe you should take a look at the damage you are causing yourselves and stop blaming everyone else for your lack of results. Its called being brutally honest. Stop the bullying and the childish insults and move forward focusing on your future.

Just GO, TEAM!!!

Jeremy #4,

Whats wrong TEAM? Affraid that people want to see what a real business looks like? We don’t need your Orrin & Co, I can go back to any of my friends who said no/never to TEAM. You can see where this is going.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Clint #5,

The child-like behaviors of TEAM/MV astonish me! This just reminds me of all the idiocy surrounding the TEAM and stacking stuff.

Why doesn’t MV/TEAM spend their time and money making a better business so people won’t want to make fun of them?

This post is just another example of how Orrinites are overtaking MV!!

TEAM is going down fast and is just trying to hit MV on its way down.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 6:12 pm
ThunderDUNCE #6,

Do you think Quixtar should have sat and watched after MV sued them FIRST, just like they responded after TEAM sued them first? You have earned your name today.

Clint #7,

What bogus claims are you talking about?

Utah #8,

The reason for the lawsuit is because MV is not cooperating with Quixtar, and now they are trying to get the non-compete declared illegal. Would you rather Quixtar sue 31,000 TEAM former IBO’s? THAT would be good use of the legal system and the money Orrin is begging for…NOT!
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Clint #9,

That lawsuit shows up on the Orrin legal website, as I said earlier.

Chue #10,

You are acting like you can’t think. I can’t tell you how ashamed I am that I was ever associated with you. Amway had a bad reputation here in the US already, why did TEAM have to add to it? Are you that delusional that you really think you are making it better? Your actions seem to parallel those of Saddam Hussein. After the Kurds fought for their freedom, he did everything in his power to discredit them and everyone they associated with. Saddam was so afraid that others would seek freedom like the Kurds, that he attacked them as hard as he could, thinking this would cause so much fear in others, they would never consider seeking their financial freedom with Quixtar. What Saddam did not realize was that later those vindictive actions were what lead to his demise. Orrin “Alfred E. Neuman” Woodward, please take note, before all of your vindictive actions lead to your demise. In my opinion, the reason that you are being so vindictive against Quixtar and anyone associated with them is to strike so much fear in current IBO’s that they would never think of staying. You are paralleling the actions of a notorious dictator. It only makes sense that the results will be paralleled as well.

Just GO, TEAM!!!
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Signmeup #11,

Can we say you are welcome to go black diamond baby, JUST GO, TEAM!!!

Courious #12,

Amway/Quixtar are enforcing their rules. If they don’t, why have them in the first place, genius?

Speaking of genius, did you mean your name to be “Curious?”
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Courious #13,

Everyone has the FREEDOM to earn a living for their families, and Quixtar has the STICK to enforce their rules, “Courious.”

freeman #14,

False claims hugh… False word, huh?

gary v #15,

I was made aware of the Quixtar vs Woodward and others mess through this site. Now Quixtar has their sites [sic, looks like you can spell straight, it should be “sights”] on another company Monavie? Are you kidding me? —- As I stated above, this is the logical manner of finding out the information. All MV has to do is cough up the dates up to 31,000 former IBO’s signed up with MV. Pretty easy stuff, if you ask me.

I have been a successful human being for almost 50 years. Not all in network marketing. I have contributed to a blog many times before because I have to help shut down the tool scam. Whether I can help YOU is quite another matter. I can not believe how unprofessional Orrin & Co. conducts business. It seems he is clinging on to a sinking ship. Why would you try to force or threaten Quixtar IBO’s by breaking the rules? I think what will be gained is whether or not up to 31,000 TEAM IBO’s broke their contract with Quixtar. What is gained is money, and further delay for these folks in signing up with “MV, the juice that makes Walmart cringe.” Quixtar doesn’t want Orrin & Co. either, they just want them to follow the rules on their way out. Plus Quixtar is surely going to continue to enforce their rules, even after they leave. Try taking the high road instead of hiding behind attorneys and fix TEAM’s business model. Apparently the “management” (i.e., Orrin) needs to be seriously revalutated as well. I’ve already evaluated him, now it’s YOUR turn.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Armando #16,

I’m “completely falling out of my chair laughing every time I think of Orrin and Co., now I have to add MV to the list. I can hardly get back up off the ground now. The thought that someone would quit Quixtar AMWAY to join another business isn’t shocking……to NO ONE!!! The thought that after YEARS of supporting their IBOs and talking about the pricing being competitive, Orrin and Co. has chosen this time to attack those who have been with them for so long is so hypocritical…..it certainly does not reflect the “Christian” foundation Orrin pretends to have!

I guess it is time to check with the “Wheel of Fortune” to determine which way the winds are blowing at TEAM/MV HQ today. First Quixtar wanted TEAM to go, now they STILL want them to go, and keep following the 6 month/2 year rules they signed a CONTRACT to support. THAT’S what Quixtar wants!!!

Hey TEAM don’t go away mad…..just G O AWAY!!!
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 7:34 pm
deann #17,

Which part are you talking about, they didn’t mention which part?

How do YOU know all 31,000 sat out 6 months (and more for a select few)? Go ahead and file the class action lawsuit, Quixtar will take ALL of you into arbitration, you idiot.

QUIXTAR DOESN’T WANT TO HIDE THE MONAVIE SUIT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS…MV OWES QUIXTAR ACCESS TO THEIR SIGNUP RECORDS. MV CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT, BUT I DON’T THINK THEY WILL WIN THIS ONE. THIS WILL BE THE PUBLIC RELATIONS NIGHTMARE FOR MV THAT WILL BRING THIS ALL TO A CLOSE. IBO’S REMEMBER THIS DATE…THE DAY THAT YOUR COMPANY THREW YOU ON THEIR ALTAR OF VICTORY!
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Jake #18

WE ALL KNOW WHAT IT MAKES WHEN WE ASSUME, TROUBLE IS MV/OW AND YOU ARE MAKING A LOT OF FALSE ASSUMPTIONS!

Do you have PROOF these charges aren’t true?

jkooser #19,

Losing a couple of Platinums and their organizations is called failing the IQ test. Be glad they’re gone.

Raiding groups is illegal if it is done by former IBO’s prior to the time limits expiring, it’s called breach of contract.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 7:56 pm
john jay #20,

You mean you still have TEAMMATES who haven’t left? Wow, that is exciting!

Your name is probably on the list, now the task is to find out when you signed up with MV. You better hope it is after your 6 months was up, or you will probably finding yourself in front of an arbitrator. I truly hope not, I would love to know you are squirming in arbitration, twisting in the wind, the gnashing of teeth, etc., etc., etc. You TEAM people are behaving quite poorly. I used to love Orrin’s success, but all the actions over the years has shown me that I should have checked in a little deeper into his tool scam. Well, the truth is out now, you guys will sue anything that moves instead of trying to follow the rules. That should tell everyone how competitive your company is today (not at all). I truly wish you and yours the worst, and I hope you go back to your roots and become the snakes we know you have always been. That is the snake that I would love to stomp into the ground, never to be heard from again. Bad luck, I hope to stomp you soon.
Lynn Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 7:57 pm
#38 Shannon…

Good point, although, since Mary Kay does not consider themselves to be an MLM, there is no competition. Mary Kay does not prohibit or forbid their consultants from engaging in other business opportunities. From all indications, Alticor/Amway/Quixtar is the only company I know of that fears competition and “forbids” people from leaving to pursue other business opportunities.

#19 jkooser…

Additionally, who would want to sign on with a company who “arbitrarily” pays out bonuses? How fair is that? You work diligently to build a LOS only to be told that the payment of bonus $$$ is at Am/Quixtar’s discretion. Who benefits from your efforts? Obviously not you. They don’t want to pay you but they don’t want you to find success elsewhere. Sounds one-sided to me. I sure hope, for your sake, that you don’t end up being one of those who are “paid at Amway’s discretion”. They don’t limit that privilege to just former TEAM-affiliated IBO’s. I sincerely wish you all the success you have worked so hard for.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Nunya #21,

Me too, I would love to see the Quixtar lawsuit.

IBO To Go #22,

You have got to be kidding me!

The Orrin lawsuit happy circus continues. Orrin’s role is the clown. He does it well.

nursegirl61 #23,

Your posts didn’t get posted immediately, but they do get posted, unlike the former freetheibo and Orrin sites. Many of the people involved in this blog were in the Czech Republic. You lost your bet, by the way.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Josh Dickerson #24,

SURPRISE! The comments are here now, and the Czech Republic was GREAT, so the moderator now has more time to post comments!
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:26 pm
FORMER IBO Steve #25,

Ha ha ha. What a joke Orrin and Co. has become.

Will you please stop crying, wipe the tears from your eyes and move on. I think you guys have a lot of work to do to get “Orrin” out of arbitration like you want. Quixtar has plenty of time to chase down upu to 30-40K ex-TEAM IBO’s that don’t want anything to do with following the rules, especially since they all live in the same MV house.

The more you file lawsuits and bring this to the attention of the courts and gov’t officials the more likely you will end up having your entire bank accounts emptied, thanks to Orrin’s “leadership.” When that happens you will see even more TEAMMATES leaving MV.
Jared Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Check out what the IBOA Blog has to say about this blog.

Look at post (Revenge of the Experts)March 21, 2008

“the Internet has become filled with a lot of people who portray themselves as expert sources — but aren’t.”

What a relief! I feel much better now, I allmost believed it.

Love you all, Jared
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Lonnie Kenny #26,

Your 6 months of following the non-compete rules on the way out is officially over!!!! Too bad your “leader” Orrin couldn’t do the same, he had to file an “illegal pyramid” lawsuit and get at least a 45 day extention. Bring on the juice, you know, the MV, the company that refuses to say how much acai berry it contains! It’s time to move forward where the real opportunity is, but you took a major step backward. I hope the clowns at Orrin & Co.’s house rot in hell for their lack of character and integrity! Actually, I know that’s going to happen. Just not soon enough for my liking.

happy to be gone #27,

A/Q fired Chris and Orrin because they refused to follow the rules, A/Q disparaged their “good” names after Orrin & Co. filed an “illegal pyramid lawsuit, A/Q asked all of the leaders associated with Team if THEY would follow the rules, A/Q told Orrin & Co. to “Just Go” on this blog (and follow the rules on the way out) and now it’s Monavie’s fault for not providing the TEAM signup dates. Orrin & Co.… get a life. And you may want to consider a complete TEAM-wide leadership change. This current group has no concept of how to lead… only how to whine and sue.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:40 pm
BILLY BOB #28,

NO kidding.. Sorry about the lack of competition. You have felt very justified for years in taking others from different groups under the cloud you have the BEST TOOL SCAM BUSINESS IN THE WORLD (for the lying cowardly “kingpins”). HEHE I’m so tickled.. Your going to get JUICED!!!!! HEHE. Billions VS Millions. Can hide in arbitation now … The world will now get to hear how stupid Orrin & Co. are.

Spend a few bucks on a dictionary, I corrected several words in your post.

Print this……. Your going to get JUICED!!!!
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Wallace #29,

Hmm, seems to me that is A/Q is a decent business opportunity, their community would stay…yes? To the tune of over $7 Billion last year. If people want to leave, THEY CAN! What you are doing is not borderline slavery and imprisonment, your eyes are clouded. They are merely enforcing their rules. ADMIT DEFEAT ALREADY, ORRIN. People, though you disagree, ARE smart enough to realize that TEAM is a sinking titanic and are moving to WAY less money because of their various lawsuits. And they have to RESORT to lawsuits to enforce the rules, they don’t want to retain them. The only “submission” Quixtar wants is Orrin’s wallet to submit every penny to them, plus a VERY public apology. History shows that you CANNOT stop a contract who’s signed one, and you WILL NEVER win against a company that is operating within LEGAL bounds. Orrin, you have ALREADY been felled by THE TRUTH! Live with it, go peacefully into the night, your time here is over.

P.S. The more of these you post, the worse you look, you are at least that intelligent….right? Or at least you would be if you picked up a little common sense now and again.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Peace-to-all #30,

Build your biz by shutting down the tool scam!
If you want to make a statment make Q get rid of the remaining tool scams!

Proud to be a past IBO #31,

Grow up and quit whining, Orrin.

The more you whine the more people leave you, Orrin.

From the way MV starts lawsuits it is apparent that they believe Orrin. However, they are also throwing Orrin under the bus. This is great.
ajgannon Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:53 pm
From the article above, “We know Quixtar Independent Business Owners (IBOs) have been approached by MonaVie distributors and solicited—in clear violation of Quixtar’s rules and putting those IBOs in potential violation of their contracts with Quixtar.” Who are these MonaVie distributors? Are they former Quixtar IBOs affiliated with TEAM? If this is the case, why not keep the dispute between Quixtar and Orrin Woodward? Apparantly MonaVie has done their part by requiring in the application that new distributors do not violate any non-competes. This statement by Dallin Larsen from the link that Utah provided at the beginning makes some sense to me, “I refuse to attempt to require any disenchanted MonaVie distributor from staying in MonaVie against their will. If they believe their dreams are better served elsewhere, I would say: God bless you; we’ll leave the door open should you ever choose to come back to MonaVie for another season in your life, or for the rest of your life.”

However, six months really isn’t that long. If it encourages someone to check out the opportunity to the point where they’re comfortable making a commitment, or not, then the non-compete is probably a positive part of the contract. Maybe the non-compete discourages an MLM junkie from hopping around various opportunities.

My main question is why MonaVie is involved when this still appears to be a dispute between Quixtar and the TEAM leadership.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:57 pm
ME! #32,

You TEAM guys just dont give up do ya? You can cry.. you can wail about what is happening. Monavie has not done anything illegal, but it appears the Orrinites have. If they have recruited any of the former TEAM IBO’s prior to their 6 months being up, all of these folks are in BIG trouble, because MV demonstrated they know the Quixtar rules by heart.

What do you think that Orrin is going to accomplish by trying to sue anyone else aside from making himself look like a dope again?

Lynn #34,

WOW! It just never ends! But it gets more and more fun to thrash Orrin & Co.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Big T #35,

The product doesn’t have to be in competition with an A/Q offered product, it only has to be a networking type business, such as the TEAM tool scam. THAT’S the real problem, and it’s a HUGE problem for Orrin & Co.

Geary #36,

No, the MV communication was a request for information, the letter to TEAM IBO’s was asking them to follow the rules, something Orrin refused to do.

Wonder how much less expensive it is to get the information from MV, rather than request the information from 31,000 former TEAM IBO’s. Not to mention abusing the court system. Will Orrin ever be smart enough to simply swallow his egomaniac driven brain, and actually “fix” the issues raised, by giving all of his money to Quixtar and making a public apology?

(of course that would mean a lot less work for his “crack” legal team … but he might actually have a few more pennies when all is said & done)

Shannon #37,

wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh…. ya big babies!

Make your brains work half the time and you’d have nothing to worry about… I wonder what’s so tempting about stupidity????

And who else files lawsuits without warning? Orrin. hmmmmm… rough being on the receiving end, isn’t it??? Practice what you preach!
Marnie Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Alticor/Amway/Quixtar Official Corporate Strategy:

DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT do ANYTHING to try to improve our business model, improve our pricing, or improve the ability of our IBOs/slaves to make money.

Instead, spend every conceivable resource hunting down anyone and everyone who was ever affiliated with our company, and find some way to haul them in to court. If there is any other company out there that falls under the “direct sales” umbrella and actually has profitable and happy distributors, go after that company too. Make wild, audacious claims, because somewhere there is a judge who will believe them.

If anyone decides to become an IBO (slave) after reading any of this, they deserve whatever they get. We will NEVER, ever be free!
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Shannon #38,

The non-compete issue is the responsibility of the prospect, not the IBO. The reason Quixtar is going after MV is because up to 31,000 former TEAM IBO’s signed up, and it makes much more sense to ask MV for the informaion than 31,000 former IBO’s, from both a cost and not tying up the courts perspective. Get a clue.

Nomen Nescio #39,

So instead of letting TEAM break more rules, Quixtar enforces them. Why have rules if you aren’t willing to enforce them, ESPECIALLY in the case of potentially large numbers of former TEAM IBO’s breaking them?

Your analogy has little to do with the current Quixtar/MV/TEAM lawsuits. There are VERY simple rules that needed to be followed, and CLEAR evidence they weren’t. Just GO, TEAM!!! Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?

This case also has NOTHING to do with a monopoly, it has to do with following a contract.

Utah #40,

How low can you go Alticor? —- As low as they need to enforce their rules.
Jen Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Is Amway/Quixtar really protecting the interests of their IBO’s? Think about it for just a minute:

1) The IBO’s they are claiming were “raided” from them….HAD ALREADY RESIGNED!

2) Quixtar is TAKING FREEDOM away from their IBO’s by FORCING them to stay in a business they WANT to leave. At a minimum, they REFUSE to let those IBO’s have the FREEDOM to chose another method to provide for their families.

Taking away freedom is NEVER in the benefit of the person losing the freedom. It is only in the interest of the CORPORATION that it is protecting.

Let’s talk about honesty. A company who boldly CLAIMS to be based on christian values, blatantly falsifying information in an effort to mislead the very people it claims to be protecting. Boldly insulting. Decide for yourself who is really behaving with character.

It looks to me like Amay has taken lessons from the government on how to fool people into believing they are their protectors, when every motive and agenda they have is selfish. How do you feel to think that you are being used? Fooled? Constrained?

Maybe that’s why all the resignations…. May I reiterate, resignations that happened MONTHS before any applications to MV.
David Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Amway Sueing Mona Vie makes as much sense as if they went out and sued Walmart for having low prices that makes the ibo i mean amway property shop at walmart instead of wasting money on Q
rdknyvr Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:44 pm
All you folks crying about Quixtar’s lawsuit against MonaVie — have any of you actually read through the 34 pages of the suit? If the allegations are true, it would seem to me that Quixtar’s position is very strong and the case has merit. Some pretty amazing allegations contained therein, along with a lot of supporting examples and evidence… funny why none of you critics have addressed it on substantive grounds.
LiveFreeOrDie Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:29 am
Please allow me to proffer a possible scenario I like to coin as the “Misdirect-Oppose-Hinder-Retreat” strategy
—
The Ten Planks of Misdirect-Oppose-Hinder-Retreat (M.O.H.R.):

-MISDIRECT-
1. Change the company’s trade name to an older scandalized trade name, thus alienating many who were promised it that it wasn’t that company when they were getting involved.

2. Terminate any large distributorships that oppose the changes and have influence on other distributors decisions via positive track records and moral example - these are the most dangerous threats to the master plan.

3. Absolution through Attrition - basically hold that the company should not be held liable for the financial downturn of its distributors. Making a hostile environment conducive to a mass-exodus of disgruntled distributors that quit of their own free will is important to this end. (NOTE: most bad employers create environments where employees quit so the do not have to pay Unemployment right away.)

-OPPOSE-
4. Post negative mass media and distribution-chain emails to discredit and demoralize the distributor class, whilst propagating the company’s draconic and dogmatic “contractual rules of operation”. Also, subcontract random “pseudonym” bloggers who will loyally fight every single post against the corporation to the point of even annoying the corporate blogging department. (NOTE: the blogger should say make accusations that the corporate bloggers could not otherwise make in good conscience)

5. Buy out a puppet-faction of high level distributors and arrange them under the name of a credible group. Then proceed to indoctrinate them to propagate more negative media toward dissenters and possible legal actions – all while claiming the opposition has a negative media campaign of their own. Draconic arbitration clauses are great when paired with this, as you can keep the ‘elephant in the room’ hidden in the basement at all times.

6. Use the “if it can’t defend itself, sue it” tactic: Anyone that may create a forum of opinion and free-thought on the subject or make a thrust at objective assessment of the company’s business model/pricing/ethics/etc must be squelched/bought off/discredited or altogether destroyed to prevent any dilution of the corporate dogma. (NOTE: this is especially effective against those who no longer make financial gain from the company during a time-driven inactivity clause – as they may easily fold under legal duress.)

-HINDER-
7. Perpetuate “woe-is-me” litigation: Bring to bear lawsuits against other organizations/companies/groups/leagues that may be in competition either directly or indirectly on the grounds that they’re not playing nice. This tactic reeks of death for the company, keeping sponsor rates low and attrition rates high - as they can no longer stand on the merits of their product or system of commerce. Also use psychological “projecting” of the company’s own bad business practices onto other companies with circumstantial evidence and spin-doctor lawyers.

8. Extend existing court-orders out for longer periods to buy time to formulate new and more creative approaches to delaying or altogether discouraging former distributor groups from moving on from the rubble. This only works if you sell a few corporate holdings – such as boats, houses, private jets, or otherwise affluent possessions. This is a double-whammy, as it makes you look like you are downtrodden and need legal intervention to stop the counter-offensive against above mentioned tactics.

-RETREAT-
9. Create a failed “community building” enterprise as an offshoot in an already over-saturated marketplace. When it fails, sell it at a loss to show how bad the market is for you in North America and how things are failing on the internet for your company as a whole - so sad, but it scores brownie points for bankruptcy lawyers.

10. Finally, make a protracted legal exit from the marketplace by plastering all the woes and downfalls of the company on the terminated top-flight distributors and altogether folding your corporation’s branch in it’s native market: “Its all the (insert former distributor group’s name here) fault! They sabotaged us from the inside.” - Thus like burning your house down to claim the insurance instead of just selling your house - “That other man is the arsonist, not I. See my loss and pain? You must believe me.” (NOTE: Beware of actual employees trying to unionize their positions at the corporation – that may put a damper on all your hard work and effort.

“The web of deceit is at its worst when the liar forgets which lie came first” - Unknown

[The above is merely my conjecture and opinion based on observation of the “clues” left behind companies who wish to stop bad business practices, but don’t want take accountability for risk of reprisal. The “lopsided media war” from the company that would claim disparagement from another is common practice. This is only a possible scenario – but a very likely one. Why else would a large storied and widely successful company engage in such self-undermining tactics and “cut its nose of to spite its face”? Any references to persons or entities, living or dead, is purely coincidental.]
Lonnie Kenny Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 4:01 am
Dear Quixtar:
I’m still waiting for my bonus check for the month of Sept. 2007! I spent my money loyally on you and brought other people’s money to you as well and that’s the thanks I get?? I’m so glad I resigned my affiliation with you. I’m so glad others decided to follow my lead as well. You don’t deserve to be called a business. You’re a disgrace to the business world. When “Titantic Amway” hit the iceberg back in August it was a day of celebration for thousands of people! FREEDOM!
The name for your travesty of a business should be “Cramway”! “Scamway” is even to good for you guys! Say hi to satan while you’re down there!
JimZ Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 7:54 am
Dear Alticor Blogmeister,

I know you folks were probably involved in the Global Comm conference in Prague and now have the Easter holiday weekend - so I understand your inconsistency in reviewing and posting this week…however….

It brings to mind that you guys tend to be unpredictable and inconsistent in your updating practices. The reality is a blog this active needs a LOT of attention including nights and weekends.

I encourage you to establish a consistent internal metric for update frequency (i.e. posts submitted until 9pm are reviewed/posted within 3 hours, posts 9pm-6am are posted by 8am next day.

Also for the sake of the “momentum” of the debates, I think you should never let groups of accumulated posts linger for more than 24 hours (understanding that some individual posts you may need to “think about” and hold off posting longer).
matt Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 10:58 am
how come you haven’t posted my reply yet, you have had days to review it…either you can’t read well, or my post is too close to the truth and you don’t want others to know it…

censorship…

i love it. another communist ideal
Utah Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 11:21 am
So after reading through the Quixtar suite about MonaVie, in looks like a few independent distributors have made some comments not backed up by the FDA.

Having taken Nutrilite products for over 15 years, I think they are great. Amway has said not to make claims as to how well it works, but I have heard several coming from several different sources throughout the years. I haven’t heard they cure cancer, just work to help prevent it. Now that is not an FDA approved statement, just a rumor I heard. I would guess, despite the care the Corporation has taken to avoid claims made, we could find lots of similar problems with Amway over the years.

Some of the distributors of MonaVie have stepped in it, but how many Amway distributors did that years ago. I guess they forget that.

Amway is now just getting really famous athletes to promote Nutrilite, implying that they got where they are because of using Nutrilite. Of course, this isn’t true, as the people were really good before using it, as far as I know.

We no longer get Momma Pat from BLI. She was great. “Remember the apple”.

The new “Perfect Water” that Q/A is coming out with in a month looks great. Only about $2 per 16 plus ounce. The Youtube videos are fun. Amwaywater has a couple of dozen.

I would guess Amway Global will have to make sure that IBOs and ABOs don’t continue this non-approved non-FDA set of “claims”.
Big D Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 12:38 pm
You might as well sue them all…. MaryKay..Avon..Amsoil…NuSkin…Shaklee…Monavie…MarketAmerica…and the rest of the companies that former Amway and current Amway distributors align themselves.. I just learned yesterday of a person who was in five others than Quixtar for several years… Q, how many people do you have that participate in others already at the same time….. could it be that they had no idea that there was a non-compete slipped in under the radar… If its not on the page you sign or stapled to it, how could it be binding.. rules of conduct?… If any one knew what was in it..they would never sign up….

Its amazing that all of this sueing can go on under the radar without any media attention…. the press could have tons of fun with this one….

HEADLINES

“AMWAY SUES OTHER MULTILIVELS FOR UNFAIR COMPETITION”….

“LARGE FORMER AMWAY DISTRIBUTORS LEAVE WITH TENS OF THOUSANDS… AMWAY SUES FORMER DISTRIBUTORS FOR LEAVING”

“AMWAY LEGAL SUES TO SUPPRESS COMPETITION FROM FORMER DISTRIBUTORS… OTHER MULITILEVELS”

“THOUSANDS EXPOSE AMWAY TRUTHS… AMWAY SUES TO SUPPRESS THOUSANDS OF VOICES”

“AMWAY ARBITRATION USED TO SILENCE CRITICS…JUDGE RULES IN FAVOR OF OPEN FORUM”

“AMWAY SUES FORMER DISTRIBUTORS… “NON-COMPETE RULED WONT HOLD UP IN GEORGIA”

FORMER AMWAY DISTRIBUTORS SUE FOR WITHHELD BONUSES

AMWAY… “THE ENRON OF DIRECT SELLING”

FAMILY AND LAWYERS OF DEVOS AND VAN ANDEL SQUANDER FORTUNE

AMWAY USES FORTUNE & LEGAL TRICKS TO FINANCIALY EXHAUST FORMER DISTRIBUTORS

If something like this hit 60 minutes or the NY Times.. Its already embarrasing for me to have been associated and believed the spin for all these years about how your company cares so much about the success of your distributors… yet when they don’t agree with you you attack them and sue them into oblivion..
Utah Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 12:52 pm
The most damaging claim from the Q/A suit is that MoneVie’s label is not exactly accurate. It doesn’t say how close the label is to whatever Q/A tested. Were they within 1% or 10% or 50% of the label?

If I were the judge, which I am not, I would toss all of the claims re: the independant distributors, and then we are down to the labels and MonaVie offical advertising. Then if the judge watches the Perfect Water videos, he would through the whole case out.

The Perfet Water Video’s might be true, but they are not believable. We can’t tell where they were shot. We don’t know if they were really at Amway functions, but isn’t that the point.
Fred Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Dear Mr. Mohr
Or should I say Tex
You must be desperate to have filed that one. You know very well that Mona vie has gone above and beyond to ensure that new distributors have completed their non compete. You know very well that your non compete clause is bogus and has been found unenforceable by at least one judge. You assumed no one would ever fight this long for their freedom and you were wrong. This fight will go on and on until your illusory non compete clause is destroyed. You can’t produce one signed non compete agreement document. Your strategy is clear bind people who were put on auto renewal to a non compete no solicitation rule we will slip into (slip mind you ) the rules of conduct. Not to worry though if anyone tries to fight it they will have to spend millions of dollars in legal fees before they have their day in court. And no one will do that. You assumed there would never be an organization of leaders who would stand up for what is right. You were wrong. As a lawyer how could you expect that a non compete clause (unsigned mind you) that covers a geographic area the scope of NORTH AMERICA to be enforceable.

Tell me Mr. Mohr you must have signed a restrictive covenant with your employment contract with Alticor does include all of North America? When your bogus no compete is found unenforceable in the right court the floodgates will open and the people who are afraid of you will voluntarily leave to find other opportunities without solicitation. Just like the first 30 + thousand did. And you sir will be out of a job
ajgannon Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 11:37 pm
I mistakenly submitted a comment without getting sufficiently educated about the case. I don’t know much. I’m going to go back to focusing on my own business powered by Quixtar/Amway Global, and let the legal people do their job. Thanks Alticor for being diligent in protecting IBOs’ businesses.
disappointed Says:
March 23rd, 2008 at 9:56 am
I have been a Quixtar rep for 3 years now but with their childish and vindictive tactics, I am going to quit. I am ashamed to be a part of this company.
White Knight Says:
March 23rd, 2008 at 9:49 pm
Congratulations to Quixtar and the Legal Team for trying to resolve the issues quietly and privately when reaching out to MonaVie. Too bad Mona Vie filed the law suit first. Wonder what they have to hide? Why not pick up the phone Dallin? I see he is out on the web with his response AFTER the fact.

It is imperative that the LOS is protected from the looters and rule violaters.

If someone wants to leave feel free but live up to the rules and the contract you signed.
Clint Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Check out the false claims that amway is making!! I need to get some of this perfect water stuff!! It improves my balance immediately! Check out this page for more info:
http://www.amquix.info/amway_perfect_water.html
john Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Administrator,
I am curious if you can tell us if Alticor/Amway/Amway Global/Quixtar endorses the WWDB sponsored tip test, flexibility test and rotation test used to show the “wonder” of the Perfect Water? The reason I am curious is because Alticor is challenging “false claims” of MonaVie distributors.
Thank you,
John
Jon Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
I don’t understand what the problem is. How can Amway/Quixtar expect another company to allow/disallow anything?

I mean seriously, if Quixtar thinks that a violation of one of their contracts is happening, then deal with the person you are contracted with! Don’t go to your competition and complain. That is no different than Meijer going to K-mart and saying something like “Proctor and Gamble agreed to give us exclusive access to their board game products but now they are letting you buy them too!”

How silly. K-mart would simply say “I don’t care. Talk to them about it.” Quixtar should be in contempt of court for frivolous lawsuits in my opinion.
ng Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
now i want to find out more about monavie, thanks amstar!
UT Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!

Last time I check the “non-compete” clause only applies to those who signed the “QUIXTAR” contract.

You claim that “MonaVie is standing idly by while its distributors attempt to lure representatives away from other direct selling companies—including Quixtar—in violation of Quixtar’s non-compete policies and in violation of other companies’ non-compete and non-solicitation rules.”

Who do you think you are standing up on your soap box telling other distributors of other networking groups that they can’t talk to “your people.”

Where in the Constitution of the United States of America does it say that a Frenchman has to obey American laws while in France? or where in the American Constitution does it say that an AT&T representative can not call up someone currently recieving phone services from Qwest or Vonage and say ” here is what we have, it may be better for you.”

Do you think that you are the almighty GOD, and you have to burden yourself to come down to a lower level and tell people from monavie “Um, Excuse me you can’t talk to that person because he is mine!”

If people are even listening to other network marketing things and they have been involved with Quixtar and they decide to leave than that is your fault for not leading and communicating enough to that “piece of property” that you do indeed have the best thing out there. And it is also their perogative, if they didn’t sign a W-4 they are not an employee. As far as I know you sent them a 1099 meaning they were an “INDEPENDENT REPRESENTATIVE”

If people signed your “non-compete” clause they are the ones that are non-competing but no where does it state in YOUR RULES OF CONDUCT that other people in other business can’t even approach “your people” about a different opportunity. If they deside to go with that company before their “non-compete” clause time period is up then they are in violation of the rules of the contract “They” signed not the people that talked to them. For all they kn

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March 18th, 2008 @ 6:28 pm ET…

Unfair competition

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