Alticor Media Blog

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March 18th, 2008 @ 6:28 pm ET…

Unfair competition

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Quixtar today filed a complaint against MonaVie, a Salt Lake City-based company that sells a handful of juice products through a network of distributors, and several MonaVie distributors. MonaVie is standing idly by while its distributors attempt to lure representatives away from other direct selling companies—including Quixtar—in violation of Quixtar’s non-compete policies and in violation of other companies’ non-compete and non-solicitation rules.

We know Quixtar Independent Business Owners (IBOs) have been approached by MonaVie distributors and solicited—in clear violation of Quixtar’s rules and putting those IBOs in potential violation of their contracts with Quixtar. But Quixtar IBOs know that the company vigilantly protects their businesses by enforcing the company’s non-compete and non-solicitation rules, thereby protecting IBOs’ hard work by not allowing others to raid their groups.

Quixtar reached out to MonaVie to make them aware of the actions of their distributors and to ask for their cooperation in enforcing their own policies and respecting Quixtar’s contracts. After initially agreeing to work with Quixtar to resolve these issues without reservation, on March 17 MonaVie filed a lawsuit, without warning, asking a U.S. District Court to find that it has not interfered with Quixtar’s contracts.

Quixtar filed suit to protect and defend IBO businesses. In addition, Quixtar’s complaint alleges unfair competition on the basis of false claims made by MonaVie and MonaVie distributors.

Quixtar takes line of sponsorship (LOS) issues very seriously because the LOS is the foundation of the Quixtar business. Any IBO who is solicited by anyone including former Quixtar IBOs—regarding another opportunity is encouraged to contact Quixtar at qbcr.department@quixtar.com.

Filed by: Corporate Communications

Posted in: Quixtar

273 Responses to “Unfair competition”

matt Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
if your business is so good why do you care?
Gene Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Why are you, Amway/Quixtar suing Mona Vie? Mona Vie like Quixtar/Amway, Herbalife, Mary Kay and other wholesale distributors, the corporation does not know the background of every distributor or prospective distributor.
The attitude of the company that is portrayed on this blog is not of a company that I or others would want to do business with.
Sue distributors that wish to leave, sue companies that have former distributors, threaten lawsuits to present distributors…
All bad for business in my estimation.
But I guess being sued by a billion dollar company can be a form of flattery.
Eric (AEM) Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Apparently any compitition is unfiar compitition in the eyes of Quixtar. Having a better compensation plan, reputation and approach is not unfair. It’s free enterprise.

And if you were so interested in protecting your LOS you would not have changed the name back to Amway.
deann Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Crybabies !! Get over it. You think you can even determine what OTHER companies claim about THEIR products and compensation plan. You call it unfair competition ? False claims indeed….like you’ve never claimed anything that YOU couldn’t prove.
CRY BABIES….WAH-WAH-WAH !!
Lee Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Quixtar - This is so grade school. Continue the spit-ball fight, Like Mama used to say, “You’ll put your eye out.” At the least, your on the road to alienating what… all of North America, Canada, The Northern Hemisphere, The World?
Lee Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Oh Yeah - Keep up the “Good” Work!
Barbara Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Who are you kidding??? If you were really protecting the businesses of your IBO’S you wouldn’t have changed the game midstream, you would have lowered your prices to be more in line w/competition, you’d stop the intimidation and the threats, stop your game playing, and above all reel in the ARROGANCE!!!!!! With every lawsuit you throw out there it becomes clearer and clearer what your REAL MOTIVES are….and that is to try and trip TEAM up at every turn. You just can’t accept the fact that so many of your people are leaving you!!! Or maybe that’s what it’s all about - you want the North American business to dry up….after all Asia is where most of your business is anyway. I give up trying to make sense of all your lawsuits - they certainly don’t reflect that of a company who is looking to attract new business and IBO’S.

We (TEAM) will survive whatever it is you want to throw out there and we will be stronger for it!!! When the music stops where will you be???
great lady Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Come on Quixtar/Amway - get off your paranoia.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. If someone wants to leave one agency and go with another, it is their business. You are wasting your time and a lot of money with this nonsense - LET IT GO ALREADY.

Note to “Tex” - any one with a drop of common sense could see from the first meeting that the way to make money with (any) mlm is through the seminars, books and cd’s. So, my dear, go out and write a book, sell it through your mlm and make your money.
john Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
If your company is “the best business opportunity” in the world as you absolutely know it has been touted as by your kingpin distributors, then why can’t you let people decide what to do with their own “independent” businesses? Instead of creating a “best” business that would attract and keep people, you simply continue your course of litigating others in to financial ruin. And how is that you can possibly accuse another company or distributor of “false claims” when you know that your kingpins have for decades been portraying their idolistic lives of luxury as the result of their Amway/Quixtar bueiness when in fact their fortune is from fleecing their downline with redundant tapes and functions. Alticor, you are the epitome of hypocrisy.
Utah Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
I doubt this is both sides of what is going on, but of course, this IS Alticor’s spin site. If the announcement was from the Op zone blog, it would carry more weight.

MonaVie, prior to Quixtar filing against MonaVie in February, had no Federal filings listed. Currently, just Quixtar, not including Alicor and Amway has dozens.

http://dockets.justia.com/search?q=Quixtar

There is missing a step.

“MonaVie initially agreeing to work with Quixtar to resolve these issues without reservation..”

Was this before or after Quixtar filed in Federal Court in February to force cooperation?

A Quick search online says IBOs have been leaving Q/A to go to MonaVie for years. I would guess they have waited their 6 months and signed up. The timing shows up after OW decides he thinks MonaVie is where it is at. Not a coincidence?

In the past, Q/A has gone after former IBOs if they felt like they didn’t follow their contract, or just to harass, It is hard to tell from the outside for sure.

Since Quixtar has no Contract with MonaVie, but only former IBOs, it would lead me to guess that any smart Utah judge would throw out any of Quixtar’s 3rd party filings/suits against MonaVie. I have not seen any reason for MonaVie would be drawn into this 3rd party suit.

“false claims made by MonaVie”?

I have not been to any of MonaVie’s introduction seminars nor contacted by a MonaVie distributor, but their rules state that they have to provide, and even display on big boards information about MonaVie earning and stats that Q/A doesn’t release, so I think this is just someone wanting to be a bully.

It will be interested to see how Q/A fairs in Utah, where there are more competing MLMs headquartered here than I think anywhere in the US. Q/A is certainly not on it’s own turf here.
MichMan Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
**** We know Quixtar Independent Business Owners (IBOs) have been approached by MonaVie distributors and solicited—in clear violation of Quixtar’s rules ****

Is MonaVie under contract with Amway? If not, how is it possible that MonaVie violated Amway rules?

Does Ford sue GM for trying to entice Ford drivers to switch to GM?
this_is_crazy Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
You guys are seriously sad. What an enormous waste of time and money. Can we not all please get over this and move on?

It’s becoming absolutely ridiculous. I suppose you ought to sue Mary Kay, Shaklee, and Pampered Chef as well because I was approached by their distributors while I was a Quixtar IBO. Good grief.

Pardon me while I now go over to the IBO Defense Fund’s website and make another contribution.
sk Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
cry, cry, cry, cry, why don’t you give it up, hey I bought laundry detergent, tooth paste, and toilet paper from Wal Mart yesterday, hey when are you going to slap a law suit on them???? They are competing with Amway/Quixtar your company is becoming the laughing stock of retail/direct sales. When are you going to wake up and realize YOUR PR is destroying your Amway company!!!!!!
tom Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
WOW, I was NEVER approached by Monavie. I am however going to build that business if for no other reason to prove that THEY have a WAY better compensation plan (one from the 21st century) than I was involved with for 13 years with Amway/Quixtar. I thought I would walk away from Amway with bitter sweet feelings but the more you OPEN your mouths the more I detest your company. Good luck in North America.
freeman Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Give me a BREAK!!!!!!! Amway is a huge joke now, you better start looking at your ABO’s who are left because I know of many who are in other networking business (not Monavie by the way) so you better start sending corp into the households to look for other products.
Shaun Carter Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 12:20 am
This storyline just keeps getting better and better. I am really starting to wonder if it will ever end and how many lives Quixtar, TEAM and everyone else involved will destroy by the time it’s all said and done.
Steve In Texas Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 12:43 am
The way you guys file lawsuits, I think you should rename the company to Quick-suit!

While your at it you might as well file suits against Walmart, K Mart, Sears, JC Penny, Cosco, Sports Clips, Dunhams, Academy, Barns & Noble, GNC, AutoZone, Best Buy, and Dairy Queen. I hear TEAM members were seen buying products from these companies over the last six months. It must be a conspiracy! This has got to be unfair competition!

Might I suggest you quit wasting your time trying to pin your company failures on the TEAM. Its seems like you know your in a free for all so your setting up your excuses for failure in advance. (It was all that nasty TEAM’S fault) If you really cared one bit about your IBO’s you would be spending your time fixing your company rather than harrassing TEAM and now MonaVie.

Hey it just dawned on me… There is no Arbitration agreement with MonaVie. Looks like you fellas are about to be exposed in open court. Ooooh Snap… thats gonna leave a mark! Tell us how that works out for ya!
matt Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:15 am
Hey, I had a guy the other day come up and ask me if I was looking for other business opportunities. He suggested that we go into business together and start a internet website. It’s not a mlm, and this guy I have known for years. But, I figured since I was quixtar distributor I thought I would let you know so you could go prosecute him and file a unfair competition suit against him too. I can give you his name and stuff if you need it. I really didn’t like you guys, but since you guys like me so much and want me to stay, even against my will, I figure I would oblige you…because I am that stupid.
Thanks for nothing
Matt

I figure you guys will get lots of these stupid emails…I just want to know one thing, without TEX coming in and barging…

So, admin…

when i think about unfair competition, i think about steroids in sports or something like that. But what exactly is “unfair competition” in business speak. Is it like a bunch of nampy pampy losers sucking their thumbs and crying about a competing company? Is it walmart suing kmart and target because they steal each others customers? That’s a little extreme right?

So what grounds do you guys stand on for suing another company…one that hasn’t competed unfairly at all, since, to my knowledge, no former ibo has signed with monavie without waiting the required 6 months?

I guess if we were in a communist country, unfair competition would mean death by firing squad. but since we are here in america, and people fight for our freedom, “unfair competiton” sounds like a crying whining baby, suggesting that free market and capitalism shouldn’t exist.

i mean, isn’t it great that you can compete against other mlm’s? what if they filed suits against you, for unfair competition? well, then you would be waiving the flag all proudly, happy to be doing business in america.

How do you put “fairness” in business anyway? the only thing that i hope will happen is this… microsoft made it big because they stole proprietary info from apple. nothing else…just used someone elses work. but, have you seen apple today. they changed, adapted, and are doing well today.

perhaps, if people are leave in mass quatities, there is something wrong with your company or products. if you change and make it better, you would probably find more people coming back.

quit your whining and create something better, that’s the beauty of the consumer…they are driven by value and cost. you make something better, and you won’t have to fight to keep people in, they will come willingly.

I’m no multimillion dollar business owner, but i do have some common sense. common sense tells me that you have lost the fight…and common sense tells me that if you keep fighting to keep the people in that want to leave, you will only make their hatred and disgust larger and deeper than before.

but it appears to me that you guys didn’t take the common sense course in college, and think that the quixtar regime will live forever.

common sense says let go…

common sense says have honor in your defeat

common sense says create a better product

common sense says respect your customers and affiliates

common sense tells me you have no common sense
wondering Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:18 am
Sue Monavie because of health claims by the leaders? It’s not right to have youtube videos explaining the benifits of thier product? Why not search youtube for “perfect water” IBO tipping? can you say hypocrite? Just curious, is anyone leaving Monavie and violating thier 6 months by coming to Amquix?
Big Bob Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:36 am
Quixtar/ Amway/ Alticor full of it. Anyone who does there own research can easily find all the facts needed see this.
Also, LOS is not and never will be the foundation, property or trade secret of Amway or any other business. The leadership of great men and women is the backbone of success!
White Knight Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:42 am
Congratulations to Quixtar and the Legal Team for trying to resolve the issues quietly and privately. Too bad Mona Vie filed the law suit. Wonder what they have to hide?

It is imperative that the LOS is protected from the looters and rule violaters.

If someone wants to leave feel free but live up to the rules and the contract you signed.
Utah Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 7:26 am
“Slightly” different tone..

http://onthemove.monavievo.com/

“Recently, some individuals (previously with Quickstar/Amway) chose to join MonaVie. Once their respective non-compete agreements have expired, we will welcome them one at a time to the MonaVie family. All MonaVie distributors are required to abide by our Policies and Procedures. We ask that individuals who have non-compete obligations to another direct selling company honor those obligations. As a company, we are 100% committed to ensuring the long term success of MonaVie. At no time would any distributor, or group of distributors, be allowed to circumvent our Policies and Procedures.

“As evidence of how strongly we feel about our commitment to operate with the highest level of integrity, we’ve recently altered our online application. We now ask each new MonaVie distributor to verify that, by joining us, they are not violating the Policies and Procedures of any other direct selling company with whom they may currently be, or have previously been, affiliated.

With statements like those above from it’s President, why the Federal filings? It sounds like MonaVie is just trying to protect itself. It could learn how to spell Quixtar, but that could be solved with a phone call, not a lawsuit, in my opinion.
Monster Mash Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 8:36 am
How long is the non-compete? 6 months - right! 6 months has passed for most former IBO’s - let it go! The TEAM has “Just GOne”.

Corporate Communications: What is the problem here? It says 6 months. 6 months was up for Orrin on February 9, 2008. That is 6 months. Orrin never personally contacted me to leave that INDEPENDENT BUISNESS, but I am following. My former upline, whom I contacted told me to make whatever decision I choose.

Too me it sounds like AMWAY is scared.
Mike Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 8:53 am
This is an unfortunate time for your company and its leaders. You continually do all you can do to discredit and tear down other individuals and businesses. Instead you should shift your focus on making your own opportunity better for those that are part of your business. The levels to which you have lowered yourself is embarrassing to you and those who represent your business. Maybe you should take a look at the damage you are causing yourselves and stop blaming everyone else for your lack of results. Its called being brutally honest. Stop the bullying and the childish insults and move forward focusing on your future.
Jeremy Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Whats wrong Q? Affraid that people want to see what a real business looks like? We dont need your Ibo’s, I can go back to any of my friends who said no/never to Q. You can see where this is going.
Clint Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 9:28 am
The child-like behaviors of this corporation astonish me! This just reminds me of all the idiocy surrounding the RIAA and music stuff.

Why doesn’t quixtar/amway spend their time and money making a better business so people won’t want to leave?

This post is just another example of how ibos are quixtar’s property!!

This company is going down fast and is just trying to hit everyone on its way down.
ThunderSTRUCK Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 9:44 am
……and the hits just keep on comin’….
Clint Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:14 am
The lawsuit filed by Alticor is this: (taken from http://www.utd.uscourts.gov/reports/cvcases.txt)

Quixtar v. Mona Vie Inc et al 2:08-cv-00209-DB
Judge: Benson
Cause: 15:1125 Trademark Infringement (Lanham Act)
Nat Suit: Trademark

Here’s a link to the Lanham Act. Read it before you post bogus claims and arguments on this blog. http://www.rkmc.com/Lanham_Act_Also_Applies_to_False_Advertising_Claims.htm
Utah Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:15 am
I haven’t read the Quixtar lawsuit.
(Link please)

I have just read the MonaVie one, and agree with what they say. Quixtar (or more likely Alticor) shouldn’t be suing MonaVie as far as I can see. MonaVie is just trying to be left alone. It has required people to hold them harmless and to not violate others contracts, and has recently added a full page of things to sign if someone wanted to be part of them, that should protect Q/A. So why the suit?

I am not a MonaVie distributor, nor have I knowingly spoke to one, nor do I know of anyone that signed up in violation of the 6 month rule, nor do I know of anyone asking IBOs to sign up with them in violation of the 2 year rule.

Who are the 31,000 IBOs?
Clint Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Here is the lawsuit that MonaVie filed:

MonaVie v. Quixtar et al 2:08-cv-00204-BSJ
Judge: Jenkins
Cause: 28:1332 Diversity-Personal Injury
Nat Suit: P.I.: Other
Chue Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Alticor, you are acting like the vindictive ex-girlfriend. I can’t tell you how ashamed I am that I was ever associated with you. Amway had a bad reputation here in the US already. Are you that delusional that you really think you are making it better?. Your actions seem to parallel those of Saddam Hussein. After the Kurds fought for their freedom, he did everything in his power to discredit them and everyone the associated with. Saddam was so afraid that others would seek freedom like the Kurds, that he attacked them as hard as he could, thinking this would cause so much fear in others, they would never consider seeking their freedom. What Saddam did not realize was that later those vindictive actions were what lead to his demise. Alticor, please take note, before all of your vindictive actions lead to your demise. In my opinion, the reason that you are being so vindictive against TEAM and anyone associated with them is to strike so much fear in current IBO’s that they would never think of leaving. You are paralleling the actions of a notorious dictator. It only makes sense that the results will be paralleled as well.
Signmeup Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Can we say I’m going black diamond baby
Courious Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Amway/Quixtar are crybabies.
Courious Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Everyone has the FREEDOM to earn a living for their families.
freeman Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 11:04 am
http://www.amquix.info/amway_perfect_water.html

False claims hugh…
gary v Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 11:10 am
I was made aware of the Quixtar vs Woodward and others mess through internet searching “leadership books”. Now Quixtar has their sites on another company Monavie? Are you kidding me? I have been a successful business man for almost 20 years. No it is not network marketing. I have never contributed to a blog before but I could not help myself. I can not believe how unprofessional Quixtar conducts business. It seems you are clinging on to a sinking ship. Why would you try to force or threaten distributors and now other companies? What do think will be gained by such actions? If I have a disgruntled employee or damaging business relationship I don’t want them in my organization. Plus I’m surely not going to continue to whine about it after they leave. Try taking the high road instead of hiding behind attorneys and fix Quixtar’s business model. Apparently the management needs to be seriously revalutated as well.
Armando Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
I applaud your ability to write this post without completely falling out of your chair laughing. The thought that someone would quit Quixtar AMWAY to join another business must be shocking……to NO ONE!!! The thought that after YEARS of not supporting their IBOs against attacks and web bloggers they have chosen this time to attack those who have been with them for so long is so hypocritical…..it certainly does not reflect the “christian” foundation of the company!

I guess it is time to check with the “Wheel of Fortune” to determine which way the winds are blowing at Quixtar/AMWAY today. First you wanted TEAM to go, now you want them to stay…you’re worse than an ex-girlfriend. You don’t know what you want!!!

Hey Quixtar/AMWAY don’t go away mad…..just G O AWAY!!!
deann Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
“on March 17 MonaVie filed a lawsuit, without warning”

Didn’t bother to mention this part, YOUR threat, did you ?

26. Notwithstanding, on or about March 14, 2008, counsel for Quixtar and Amway
communicated to MonaVie that MonaVie was “feeding the beast” and, consequently, that it intended to immediately file suit against MonaVie for tortious interference with contractual relations unless MonaVie terminated each of the distributorships of the alleged TEAM Leaders.
Why don’t you get it that we sat out..we waited 6 months, BUT THAT’S NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU…you now want to ruin each of us. Well, you are about to get a class action suit filed against you by 31,000.

YOU CAN’T HIDE THE MONAVIE SUIT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS…MV OWES YOU NOTHING, BUT IS PROBABLY GOING TO “PAY” YOU ANYWAY. THIS WILL BE THE PUBLIC RELATIONS NIGHTMARE THAT WILL BRING THIS ALL TO A CLOSE. IBO’S REMEMBER THIS DATE…THE DAY THAT YOUR COMPANY THREW YOU ON THEIR ALTAR OF EGO !
Jake Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
WE ALL KNOW WHAT IT MAKES WHEN WE ASSUME!

…… “MonaVie is standing idly by while its distributors attempt to lure representatives away from other direct selling companies—including Quixtar—in violation of Quixtar’s non-compete policies and in violation of other companies’ non-compete and non-solicitation rules.

We know Quixtar Independent Business Owners (IBOs) have been approached by MonaVie distributors and solicited—in clear violation of Quixtar’s rules and putting those IBOs in potential violation of their contracts with Quixtar.
jkooser Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
I have to say - I know nothing of MonaVie’s structure or recruiting practices. However, I do know that our business suffered the loss of 2 Platinum IBO’s and their downline LOS from active recruiting over an extended time period from the “TEAM” ventures (thank goodness it was only that small part of our LOS). Our organization has been on the grow since that time, very excited about the future, and although we do miss those who left - we bear no ill will towards them. In fact, we hope their ventures are successful because we care about many of those people even though we obviously have a difference of opinion on how to achieve our goals in life.

I believe that raiding groups of people for their LOS is unethical (in the kindest term) and illegal (or it ought to be) in the strongest terms. When people want to leave one opportunity for another they should follow the exit strategy allowed for in their contracts with their existing company - in this business model, it is to not renew, wait your time and then start your new venture free and clear. I also take issue with people who have left (of their own accord) still referring to themselves as “IBO’s” and ranting online how things aren’t ‘fair’ for them - I would certainly appreciate those individuals focusing on their future and quit railing about the situation they have put themselves into.

I really, really, really appreciate this corporation and the upstanding ethics they adhere to. Our sweat-equity built business has been such a blessing in our lives and the lives of so many others; Thank You Quixtar/Amway/Alticor for stepping up to the plate in the real IBO’s defense to stop unethical, and illegal raiding practices!!
john jay franklin Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
You mean you still have distributors who haven’t left? Wow, that is exciting!

About you guys suing monavie, is my name on that list of non-compete ibo’s? I truly hope so. You people are behaving quite poorly. I used to love your company, but all the actions over the last seven months has shown me that I should have checked in a little deeper into your company. Well, the truth is out now, you guys will sue anything that moves instead of trying to compete in the free market. That should tell everyone how competitive your company is today (not at all). I truly wish you and yours the best, and I hope you go back to your roots and become the company you were in the 50’s-80’s. That is the company that I would love to compete against. Good luck, I hope to see you soon.
Nunya Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
You go Quixtar! Can we see a copy of Quixtar’s filed lawsuit? I want to see how you are going to drown those Monavie DOGS!
Former Ohio IBO Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Almost 20 hours and no comments.
Hmmmmmm………
Are you even accepting comments? Or they so overwhelmingly negative you don’t want to post them?

Just wondering………..
IBO To Go Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
You have got to be kidding me!

The Quixtar lawsuit happy circus continues.

Orrin

TEAM

bloggers

Monavie

Mary Kay?

Arbonne?

Red Bull?

Nike?

Sony?

Jockey?

Kraft?

Tide?

Charmin?
nursegirl61 Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
WAH WAH WAH, WHAT A BUNCH OF CRYBABIES YOU ALL ARE….I’LL BET YOU WON’T POST THIS ONE, SEEMS TO ME LIKE THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL FROM US THAT YOU HAVEN’T POSTED RECENTLY…HMMMM I WONDER WHY?
Josh Dickerson Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Just surprised there are no comments here yet!
FORMER IBO Steve Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Ha ha ha. What a joke this all has become.

Will you please stop crying, wipe the tears from your eyes and move on. I think you guys have a lot of work to do to get “Amway” accepted in North America like you want. You don’t have time to be spending on chasing down 30-40K exIBO’s that don’t want anything to do with you.

The more you file lawsuits and bring this to the attention of the courts and gov’t officials the more likely you will end up having the entire non-compete, non-solicitation rule tossed out. When that happens you will see even more IBOs leaving the ranks.
Lonnie Kenny Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
My 6 month slavery term with Quixtar/Amway is officially over!!!! Bring on the juice! It’s time to move forward where the real opportunity is. I hope the clowns at Alticor rot in hell for their lack of character and integrity! Actually, I know that’s going to happen. Just not soon enough for my liking.
happy to be gone Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Amway/Q, you fire Chris and Orrin, you disparage their good names, you threaten all of the leaders associated with Team, and you tell us to “Just Go” on this blog and now it’s Monavie’s fault??????? Amway… get a life. And you may want to consider a complete corp. wide leadership change. This current group has no concept of how to lead… only how to whine and sue.
BILLY BOB Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
NO kidding.. Sorry about the competition. You have felt very justified for years in taking others from differant groups under the cloud you have the BEST BUSINESS IN THE WORLD (for the owners). HEHE I’m so tickeled.. Your going to get JUCIED!!!!! HEHE. Billions VS Billions. Can’t hide in abertaration now can you.. The world will now get to hear our side.

Print this……. Your going to get JUCIED!!!!
Wallace Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Hmm, seems to me that is Quixtar was a decent business opportunity, their community would stay…no? If people want to leave, LET THEM! What you are doing is borderline slavery and imprisonment in my eyes. ADMIT DEFEAT ALREADY. People, though you disagree, ARE smart enough to realize that Amway is a sinking titanic and are moving to WAY more VIABLE businesses. And you have to RESORT to lawsuits to try to retain then and FORCE them into submission. History shows that you CANNOT stop an idea who’s time has come, and you WILL NEVER win against a FREE people. Goliath, you WILL be felled by FREE PEOPLE! Live with it, go peacefully into the night, your time here is over.

P.S. The more of these you post, the worse you look, you are at least that intelligent….right? Or at least you would be if you picked up a book now and again.
Peace-to-all Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Build your biz don’t worry about other ppl!
If you want to make a statment make Q the largest corp in the world !
Fox Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Do we happen to have some sort of evidence about MonaVie intially agreeing to help Quixtar before filing the lawsuit, or was it just all a verbal agreement?
Proud to be a past IBO Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Grow up and quit whining.

The more you whine the more people leave.

From the way the corporation starts lawsuits it is apparent that the corporation believe money wins and that no person who was (or is) as Independant Business Owner had a brain and was capable of using it.

This is disgusting.
ME! Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
You guys just dont give up do ya? You can cry.. you can wail about what is happening. Monavie has not done anything illegal. If they have recruited any of your precious IBO’s then take it up with the people doing the recruiting.

What do you think that your going to accomplish by trying to sue anyone else aside from making you look like dopes again?
Big Bob Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
how come you’re not posting any comments?
huh? got any real reasons or just some excuses?
Lynn Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 1:12 am
WOW! It just never ends!
Big T Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 7:51 am
I wasn’t aware Q/A offered a product like Mona Vie. How in the world could this be considered competition?
On another note Mona Vie pays out 50%. Doesn’t sound like you can compete with that…or is that really the problem here?

Big T
Peter Chen Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 8:31 am
Testing if comments allows HTML. There should be a preview button. Please bring this up to webmaster or whoever is in charge of this blog

Peter Blog*Star
Blogger Tips and Tricks
Geary Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 9:16 am
Noted you “reached out” to your friends at Mona Vie … is that somewhat similar to how you’ve “reached out” to the 31,000 “infidels” identified in your helpful communication with them?

Wonder how much less expensive it would be to simply swallow your Corporate arrogance and actually “fix” the issues raised?

(of course that would mean a lot less work for Legal … but you might actually have a lot more “friendlies” when all is said & done)
Shannon Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh…. ya big babies!

Make your opportunity better than Monavie’s and you’d have nothing to worry about… I wonder what’s so tempting????
And who else files lawsuits without warning? hmmmmm… rough being on the receiving end, isn’t it???

Practice what you preach!
Shannon Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Do you check to make sure all your new IBO’s aren’t solicited away from another MLM’s with a similar non-compete agreement??? hmm??? is Mary Kay, Shaklee, Melaluca, Xango sueing you for their IBO’s that were in their precious protected LOS and didn’t follow their rules when leaving? Maybe I need to let Mary Kay know that one of your precious IBO’s lured me away from them and I didn’t complete my non-compete before joining your tyranical pyramid scheme.
Nomen Nescio Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
So instead of welcoming the challenge of fair competition and proving to the world that you could be the better entity, you take the low road and try to sue everyone out of your way. Typical.

Now, it’s easy to see that the people at Q*/Amway don’t read/understand Current Events as well as history. Case in point, the SCO vs. IBM/Novell lawsuit that left the plaintiffs in utter shambles, near Ch. 7 Bankruptcy, and delisted from the NASDAQ and NYSE stock exchanges. They couldn’t handle the competition that was doing better than them because they thought about themselves and managing instead of being the example and LEADING. And when they did that, everyone passed them on by. Sun Microsystems. Novell. IBM. So what did they do? They sued IBM and Novell, stating that they owned the rights to source code that IBM and Novell were using, even though that source code was free and open source to everyone. On top of that, they wanted IBM and Novell to present their code to the judge so they can comb through it and say what is theirs and what is not.

In the end, the judge got tired of it, accepted IBM/Novell’s countersuit, dropped SCO’s case, and had SCO pay all the costs for the cases. SCO was so scared of everyone passing them by, that their only shot at remaining anywhere near the top was to sue everybody else to bring them down.

Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?

So go ahead, VanAndel and DeVos. Sue MonaVie. Sue MaryKay while you’re at it. Sue Partylite. Just remember that for each and every time that you do (and you will LOSE, by the way), you are building the case against you for repeat violations of the Sherman and Clayton AntiTrust Acts for becoming a monopoly. You may think that you are winning all of these lawsuits, but in the end, your own doing will be the cause of your fall.
Utah Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
How low can you go Alticor?

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080318/cltu121.html?.v=49

You missed saying bad things about his dog in High School.
Bridgett Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
#26 Lonnie Kenny said, “I hope the clowns at Alticor rot in hell for their lack of character and integrity!”

Wow Lonnie, what I shining example you are of the TEAM Leadership Development Program.
Bridgett Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 12:06 am
So…I’m having a hard time locating Monavie on the Direct Selling Association website.

http://www.dsa.org/

Ya know, the DSA? Their mission is:
“To protect, serve and promote the effectiveness of member companies and the independent business people they represent. To ensure that the marketing by member companies of products and/or the direct sales opportunity is conducted with the highest level of business ethics and service to consumers.”

Hmmm, guess Monavie didn’t make the cut?
john Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 3:59 am
Alticor,
You accuse MonaVie of false claims. Who trained the WWDB diamonds to do the Perfect Water tests? Can you watch the “before” the drink pictures where the Diamond does not lean into the person’s body to keep it from tipping and the after picture where the Diamond is clearly leaning into the body to prevent it from tipping. Go to amquix and see your WWDB leaders in action. These tricks are older than the old water you are now remarketing as something new. Kind of like the Brand New Amway. It amazes me that you do what you do with a straight face.
Josh Dickerson Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 7:58 am
Thanks for finally posting all these comments. Its good to here what everyone has to say. Except that I want to also here the Q/A/A rebuttal.
Josh Dickerson Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:05 am
If there is a legite rebuttal that is!
nonprofit Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:42 am
The simple measure of a country, (or a business), is not only how many are trying to get out, but how many are trying to get in! I’m not seeing a large fan base here. But then when you run a pubic relations campaign like this, it’s understandable.

I’ve have to applaud Quixtar/Amway for doing their part to stimulate Michigan’s stagnant job market. Although opportunities for marketing and distribution at Q are on the decline, there will be many openings shortly in the high paying legal department, and exciting careers on the public relations team. Other openings will include anyone with some business sense, the job title has yet to be defined, but the need is apparent.

I can’t help but notice Tex’s absence. Has he move on to a higher paying position elsewhere? I miss his cynical wit and overwhelming people skills. Let me be the first to wish him well in his new endeavor! He will be missed…..

I’ve begun to wonder what the PV/BV is on frivolous lawsuits? It must have a high return as Amway/Quixtar seems to have laser focus on that product line. I’ve also noticed the many innovations in legal briefs they’ve pioneered! I have to admit they are blazing a trail in the industry, showing the creativity to create something out of nothing.

Lastly I’d like to thank you Amway/Quixtar for my daily chuckle. They say laughter is the best medicine and thanks to you, I’ll probably live forever. Your priceless antics are a never ending source of humor. Nary a day passes you don’t do something to tickle my funny bone. I can’t wait for tomorrow’s debacle!
Silence DoGood Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 9:38 am
Its too bad that the “LOS is the foundation of the Quixtar business” instead of character and integrity. If it were the other way around you could stop suing everyone and get on with trying to repair your imploded business! As it stands now you should make one more name change to “Devos, VanAndel & Mohr” law firm. Soon there will be nothing left but lawsuits.
YankeeIBO Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 9:59 am
Utah-#40,
Thanks for the link. If what Q* alleges is true, it puts the entire health supplement industry at risk. We are already in a fight, worldwide to maintain our right to choose natural alternatives to Big Pharma’s solutions. The FDA would like to see ALL supplements approved and regulated by the FDA (which is funded in LARGE part by Big Pharma), and dispensed only by prescription from your doctors. This is an offshoot of the International CODEX platform, and you can find out more at http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/health-freedom/

ANYONE who makes clinically unsubstantiated health claims about ANY product makes the probability that we are ALL going to be put out of business that much higher. Mona Vie has as much at stake if this is true as the rest of us, and should be held accountable for the actions of its distributors in this regard.

This applies equally to Q/AG, Herbalife, Mannatech, Arbonne, GNC, etc.
Clint Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:13 am
It’s laughable that you’re suing monavie over false claims when that’s exactly what you’re doing with your miracle water! You’re even teaching IBOs how to make it seem like it improves balance! Look it up, you’ll see. Wow, this company truly is going down and fast…
ben Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:18 am
It seems silly to me that anyone could “raid a LOS”. If you are a good leader then the ppl that follow will come with you whether you like it or not. Does it not occur to anyone that the leadership of the team has acted in accordance to the wishes of the entire organization, all the way down to the new person? Don’t you believe that TEAM leaders were pressured into this by the majority of the TEAM who were asking over and over, why don’t you do something to get as far away from Alticor as possible?

Over a year ago I have a personal friend former TEAM member who after getting to platinum left because he said “TEAM training and comp plan is awesome but Q’s comp plan sucks and I’m leaving and starting a Gogi juice business”. He is doing very well and still gets team leadership training materials to implement in his new venture. Guess what TEAM leaders said to him? They said he should be careful of the non compete and not to come around to any more functions, thats it. You know what? He took his friends and family with him without waiting a week. Good for him!

Hey Quixtar, why don’t you sue Himilayan GOJI juice while your at it.
Jeff Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:19 am
To # 22

I just downloaded a movie…..Do you think I will be sued by “Fanista”? Oh no what have I done??
my2sense Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Hey orrinites,
welcome to buisness!!! This is why people go to college,get a degree,work with codes,areas,tributes,and guidelines.This is not, listen to a tape, tackle someone at wal-mart.This is the real thing.If Orrin had someone sue him over a dispute in his patents, he would not threaten them with fire,brimstone,and say that God is on his side.He would take it to the courts!!
———–TADA———
john jay franklin Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 1:38 pm
I want to make sure that I understand your point here, so please correct me if I am wrong. Are you really suing monavie because their independent distributors did not read and follow Quixtar’s book of rules of conduct? For instance, you wrote “We know Quixtar Independent Business Owners (IBOs) have been approached by MonaVie distributors and solicited—in clear violation of Quixtar’s rules”, so those MONAVIE distributors are bad for not reading QUIXTAR’S rules, right? And why just monavie? When I was with Q, I was contacted by someone with pre-paid legal, and they KNEW I was a Q slave, uh, IBO. Are you suing them next?

Also, if I were asked to join the Wal-mart business would that count when you say “Any IBO who is solicited by anyone including former Quixtar IBOs—regarding another opportunity is encouraged to contact Quixtar”? Well, in your defense, you did not say business, you said “opportunity”, so if I were solicited by my friend for the opportunity to feed and clothe the poor, should I call you? Are you really saying that anyone that is affiliated with Quixtar is not allowed to see any other opportunity at all? Someone please clear up these statements, because I am really confused. Thanks!
Brad Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 1:55 pm
This is foolish. Enough already; let it go. You guys must have the worst case of scarcity mentality ever.
Utah Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Why, with all the bad things people are saying about your suit re: MonaVie, is my post from March 18th post still not released?
David Jados Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Ahh does Amway/Quixtar need a bottle. I can’t wait to see who Alticor is going to sue next.
Maybe stores that sell Monster, Redbull, Rockstore because that would be a competing business. Or maybe they will go after Walgreens, or Rite Aide because they sell Vitamins and other stuff that can prevent diseases or cure things.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 5:58 pm
I read the lawsuit, and it appears MV is interested in having a judge declare the non-compete illegal, but if they are not successful in that effort, their rules are clear it is not MV’s fault, it is each former IBO’s fault. Trouble is, they don’t want to cooperate in this matter, and that’s another problem.

Utah #1,

Point?

Monster Mash #2,

The 6 month time period ended recently, and Quixtar is trying to find out whether TEAM IBO’s signed up prior to their 6 months expired. Also, Orrins’s 6 months was apparently extended by at least 45 days.

Sounds to me like AMWAY is enforcing their rules.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Mike #3,

This is an unfortunate time for TEAm and its leaders. You continually do all you can do to discredit and tear down other individuals and businesses. Instead you should shift your focus on making your own opportunity better for those that are part of your business. The levels to which you have lowered yourself is embarrassing to you and those who represent your business. Maybe you should take a look at the damage you are causing yourselves and stop blaming everyone else for your lack of results. Its called being brutally honest. Stop the bullying and the childish insults and move forward focusing on your future.

Just GO, TEAM!!!

Jeremy #4,

Whats wrong TEAM? Affraid that people want to see what a real business looks like? We don’t need your Orrin & Co, I can go back to any of my friends who said no/never to TEAM. You can see where this is going.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Clint #5,

The child-like behaviors of TEAM/MV astonish me! This just reminds me of all the idiocy surrounding the TEAM and stacking stuff.

Why doesn’t MV/TEAM spend their time and money making a better business so people won’t want to make fun of them?

This post is just another example of how Orrinites are overtaking MV!!

TEAM is going down fast and is just trying to hit MV on its way down.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 6:12 pm
ThunderDUNCE #6,

Do you think Quixtar should have sat and watched after MV sued them FIRST, just like they responded after TEAM sued them first? You have earned your name today.

Clint #7,

What bogus claims are you talking about?

Utah #8,

The reason for the lawsuit is because MV is not cooperating with Quixtar, and now they are trying to get the non-compete declared illegal. Would you rather Quixtar sue 31,000 TEAM former IBO’s? THAT would be good use of the legal system and the money Orrin is begging for…NOT!
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Clint #9,

That lawsuit shows up on the Orrin legal website, as I said earlier.

Chue #10,

You are acting like you can’t think. I can’t tell you how ashamed I am that I was ever associated with you. Amway had a bad reputation here in the US already, why did TEAM have to add to it? Are you that delusional that you really think you are making it better? Your actions seem to parallel those of Saddam Hussein. After the Kurds fought for their freedom, he did everything in his power to discredit them and everyone they associated with. Saddam was so afraid that others would seek freedom like the Kurds, that he attacked them as hard as he could, thinking this would cause so much fear in others, they would never consider seeking their financial freedom with Quixtar. What Saddam did not realize was that later those vindictive actions were what lead to his demise. Orrin “Alfred E. Neuman” Woodward, please take note, before all of your vindictive actions lead to your demise. In my opinion, the reason that you are being so vindictive against Quixtar and anyone associated with them is to strike so much fear in current IBO’s that they would never think of staying. You are paralleling the actions of a notorious dictator. It only makes sense that the results will be paralleled as well.

Just GO, TEAM!!!
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Signmeup #11,

Can we say you are welcome to go black diamond baby, JUST GO, TEAM!!!

Courious #12,

Amway/Quixtar are enforcing their rules. If they don’t, why have them in the first place, genius?

Speaking of genius, did you mean your name to be “Curious?”
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Courious #13,

Everyone has the FREEDOM to earn a living for their families, and Quixtar has the STICK to enforce their rules, “Courious.”

freeman #14,

False claims hugh… False word, huh?

gary v #15,

I was made aware of the Quixtar vs Woodward and others mess through this site. Now Quixtar has their sites [sic, looks like you can spell straight, it should be “sights”] on another company Monavie? Are you kidding me? —- As I stated above, this is the logical manner of finding out the information. All MV has to do is cough up the dates up to 31,000 former IBO’s signed up with MV. Pretty easy stuff, if you ask me.

I have been a successful human being for almost 50 years. Not all in network marketing. I have contributed to a blog many times before because I have to help shut down the tool scam. Whether I can help YOU is quite another matter. I can not believe how unprofessional Orrin & Co. conducts business. It seems he is clinging on to a sinking ship. Why would you try to force or threaten Quixtar IBO’s by breaking the rules? I think what will be gained is whether or not up to 31,000 TEAM IBO’s broke their contract with Quixtar. What is gained is money, and further delay for these folks in signing up with “MV, the juice that makes Walmart cringe.” Quixtar doesn’t want Orrin & Co. either, they just want them to follow the rules on their way out. Plus Quixtar is surely going to continue to enforce their rules, even after they leave. Try taking the high road instead of hiding behind attorneys and fix TEAM’s business model. Apparently the “management” (i.e., Orrin) needs to be seriously revalutated as well. I’ve already evaluated him, now it’s YOUR turn.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Armando #16,

I’m “completely falling out of my chair laughing every time I think of Orrin and Co., now I have to add MV to the list. I can hardly get back up off the ground now. The thought that someone would quit Quixtar AMWAY to join another business isn’t shocking……to NO ONE!!! The thought that after YEARS of supporting their IBOs and talking about the pricing being competitive, Orrin and Co. has chosen this time to attack those who have been with them for so long is so hypocritical…..it certainly does not reflect the “Christian” foundation Orrin pretends to have!

I guess it is time to check with the “Wheel of Fortune” to determine which way the winds are blowing at TEAM/MV HQ today. First Quixtar wanted TEAM to go, now they STILL want them to go, and keep following the 6 month/2 year rules they signed a CONTRACT to support. THAT’S what Quixtar wants!!!

Hey TEAM don’t go away mad…..just G O AWAY!!!
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 7:34 pm
deann #17,

Which part are you talking about, they didn’t mention which part?

How do YOU know all 31,000 sat out 6 months (and more for a select few)? Go ahead and file the class action lawsuit, Quixtar will take ALL of you into arbitration, you idiot.

QUIXTAR DOESN’T WANT TO HIDE THE MONAVIE SUIT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS…MV OWES QUIXTAR ACCESS TO THEIR SIGNUP RECORDS. MV CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT, BUT I DON’T THINK THEY WILL WIN THIS ONE. THIS WILL BE THE PUBLIC RELATIONS NIGHTMARE FOR MV THAT WILL BRING THIS ALL TO A CLOSE. IBO’S REMEMBER THIS DATE…THE DAY THAT YOUR COMPANY THREW YOU ON THEIR ALTAR OF VICTORY!
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Jake #18

WE ALL KNOW WHAT IT MAKES WHEN WE ASSUME, TROUBLE IS MV/OW AND YOU ARE MAKING A LOT OF FALSE ASSUMPTIONS!

Do you have PROOF these charges aren’t true?

jkooser #19,

Losing a couple of Platinums and their organizations is called failing the IQ test. Be glad they’re gone.

Raiding groups is illegal if it is done by former IBO’s prior to the time limits expiring, it’s called breach of contract.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 7:56 pm
john jay #20,

You mean you still have TEAMMATES who haven’t left? Wow, that is exciting!

Your name is probably on the list, now the task is to find out when you signed up with MV. You better hope it is after your 6 months was up, or you will probably finding yourself in front of an arbitrator. I truly hope not, I would love to know you are squirming in arbitration, twisting in the wind, the gnashing of teeth, etc., etc., etc. You TEAM people are behaving quite poorly. I used to love Orrin’s success, but all the actions over the years has shown me that I should have checked in a little deeper into his tool scam. Well, the truth is out now, you guys will sue anything that moves instead of trying to follow the rules. That should tell everyone how competitive your company is today (not at all). I truly wish you and yours the worst, and I hope you go back to your roots and become the snakes we know you have always been. That is the snake that I would love to stomp into the ground, never to be heard from again. Bad luck, I hope to stomp you soon.
Lynn Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 7:57 pm
#38 Shannon…

Good point, although, since Mary Kay does not consider themselves to be an MLM, there is no competition. Mary Kay does not prohibit or forbid their consultants from engaging in other business opportunities. From all indications, Alticor/Amway/Quixtar is the only company I know of that fears competition and “forbids” people from leaving to pursue other business opportunities.

#19 jkooser…

Additionally, who would want to sign on with a company who “arbitrarily” pays out bonuses? How fair is that? You work diligently to build a LOS only to be told that the payment of bonus $$$ is at Am/Quixtar’s discretion. Who benefits from your efforts? Obviously not you. They don’t want to pay you but they don’t want you to find success elsewhere. Sounds one-sided to me. I sure hope, for your sake, that you don’t end up being one of those who are “paid at Amway’s discretion”. They don’t limit that privilege to just former TEAM-affiliated IBO’s. I sincerely wish you all the success you have worked so hard for.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Nunya #21,

Me too, I would love to see the Quixtar lawsuit.

IBO To Go #22,

You have got to be kidding me!

The Orrin lawsuit happy circus continues. Orrin’s role is the clown. He does it well.

nursegirl61 #23,

Your posts didn’t get posted immediately, but they do get posted, unlike the former freetheibo and Orrin sites. Many of the people involved in this blog were in the Czech Republic. You lost your bet, by the way.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Josh Dickerson #24,

SURPRISE! The comments are here now, and the Czech Republic was GREAT, so the moderator now has more time to post comments!
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:26 pm
FORMER IBO Steve #25,

Ha ha ha. What a joke Orrin and Co. has become.

Will you please stop crying, wipe the tears from your eyes and move on. I think you guys have a lot of work to do to get “Orrin” out of arbitration like you want. Quixtar has plenty of time to chase down upu to 30-40K ex-TEAM IBO’s that don’t want anything to do with following the rules, especially since they all live in the same MV house.

The more you file lawsuits and bring this to the attention of the courts and gov’t officials the more likely you will end up having your entire bank accounts emptied, thanks to Orrin’s “leadership.” When that happens you will see even more TEAMMATES leaving MV.
Jared Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Check out what the IBOA Blog has to say about this blog.

Look at post (Revenge of the Experts)March 21, 2008

“the Internet has become filled with a lot of people who portray themselves as expert sources — but aren’t.”

What a relief! I feel much better now, I allmost believed it.

Love you all, Jared
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Lonnie Kenny #26,

Your 6 months of following the non-compete rules on the way out is officially over!!!! Too bad your “leader” Orrin couldn’t do the same, he had to file an “illegal pyramid” lawsuit and get at least a 45 day extention. Bring on the juice, you know, the MV, the company that refuses to say how much acai berry it contains! It’s time to move forward where the real opportunity is, but you took a major step backward. I hope the clowns at Orrin & Co.’s house rot in hell for their lack of character and integrity! Actually, I know that’s going to happen. Just not soon enough for my liking.

happy to be gone #27,

A/Q fired Chris and Orrin because they refused to follow the rules, A/Q disparaged their “good” names after Orrin & Co. filed an “illegal pyramid lawsuit, A/Q asked all of the leaders associated with Team if THEY would follow the rules, A/Q told Orrin & Co. to “Just Go” on this blog (and follow the rules on the way out) and now it’s Monavie’s fault for not providing the TEAM signup dates. Orrin & Co.… get a life. And you may want to consider a complete TEAM-wide leadership change. This current group has no concept of how to lead… only how to whine and sue.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:40 pm
BILLY BOB #28,

NO kidding.. Sorry about the lack of competition. You have felt very justified for years in taking others from different groups under the cloud you have the BEST TOOL SCAM BUSINESS IN THE WORLD (for the lying cowardly “kingpins”). HEHE I’m so tickled.. Your going to get JUICED!!!!! HEHE. Billions VS Millions. Can hide in arbitation now … The world will now get to hear how stupid Orrin & Co. are.

Spend a few bucks on a dictionary, I corrected several words in your post.

Print this……. Your going to get JUICED!!!!
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Wallace #29,

Hmm, seems to me that is A/Q is a decent business opportunity, their community would stay…yes? To the tune of over $7 Billion last year. If people want to leave, THEY CAN! What you are doing is not borderline slavery and imprisonment, your eyes are clouded. They are merely enforcing their rules. ADMIT DEFEAT ALREADY, ORRIN. People, though you disagree, ARE smart enough to realize that TEAM is a sinking titanic and are moving to WAY less money because of their various lawsuits. And they have to RESORT to lawsuits to enforce the rules, they don’t want to retain them. The only “submission” Quixtar wants is Orrin’s wallet to submit every penny to them, plus a VERY public apology. History shows that you CANNOT stop a contract who’s signed one, and you WILL NEVER win against a company that is operating within LEGAL bounds. Orrin, you have ALREADY been felled by THE TRUTH! Live with it, go peacefully into the night, your time here is over.

P.S. The more of these you post, the worse you look, you are at least that intelligent….right? Or at least you would be if you picked up a little common sense now and again.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Peace-to-all #30,

Build your biz by shutting down the tool scam!
If you want to make a statment make Q get rid of the remaining tool scams!

Proud to be a past IBO #31,

Grow up and quit whining, Orrin.

The more you whine the more people leave you, Orrin.

From the way MV starts lawsuits it is apparent that they believe Orrin. However, they are also throwing Orrin under the bus. This is great.
ajgannon Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:53 pm
From the article above, “We know Quixtar Independent Business Owners (IBOs) have been approached by MonaVie distributors and solicited—in clear violation of Quixtar’s rules and putting those IBOs in potential violation of their contracts with Quixtar.” Who are these MonaVie distributors? Are they former Quixtar IBOs affiliated with TEAM? If this is the case, why not keep the dispute between Quixtar and Orrin Woodward? Apparantly MonaVie has done their part by requiring in the application that new distributors do not violate any non-competes. This statement by Dallin Larsen from the link that Utah provided at the beginning makes some sense to me, “I refuse to attempt to require any disenchanted MonaVie distributor from staying in MonaVie against their will. If they believe their dreams are better served elsewhere, I would say: God bless you; we’ll leave the door open should you ever choose to come back to MonaVie for another season in your life, or for the rest of your life.”

However, six months really isn’t that long. If it encourages someone to check out the opportunity to the point where they’re comfortable making a commitment, or not, then the non-compete is probably a positive part of the contract. Maybe the non-compete discourages an MLM junkie from hopping around various opportunities.

My main question is why MonaVie is involved when this still appears to be a dispute between Quixtar and the TEAM leadership.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:57 pm
ME! #32,

You TEAM guys just dont give up do ya? You can cry.. you can wail about what is happening. Monavie has not done anything illegal, but it appears the Orrinites have. If they have recruited any of the former TEAM IBO’s prior to their 6 months being up, all of these folks are in BIG trouble, because MV demonstrated they know the Quixtar rules by heart.

What do you think that Orrin is going to accomplish by trying to sue anyone else aside from making himself look like a dope again?

Lynn #34,

WOW! It just never ends! But it gets more and more fun to thrash Orrin & Co.
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Big T #35,

The product doesn’t have to be in competition with an A/Q offered product, it only has to be a networking type business, such as the TEAM tool scam. THAT’S the real problem, and it’s a HUGE problem for Orrin & Co.

Geary #36,

No, the MV communication was a request for information, the letter to TEAM IBO’s was asking them to follow the rules, something Orrin refused to do.

Wonder how much less expensive it is to get the information from MV, rather than request the information from 31,000 former TEAM IBO’s. Not to mention abusing the court system. Will Orrin ever be smart enough to simply swallow his egomaniac driven brain, and actually “fix” the issues raised, by giving all of his money to Quixtar and making a public apology?

(of course that would mean a lot less work for his “crack” legal team … but he might actually have a few more pennies when all is said & done)

Shannon #37,

wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh…. ya big babies!

Make your brains work half the time and you’d have nothing to worry about… I wonder what’s so tempting about stupidity????

And who else files lawsuits without warning? Orrin. hmmmmm… rough being on the receiving end, isn’t it??? Practice what you preach!
Marnie Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Alticor/Amway/Quixtar Official Corporate Strategy:

DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT do ANYTHING to try to improve our business model, improve our pricing, or improve the ability of our IBOs/slaves to make money.

Instead, spend every conceivable resource hunting down anyone and everyone who was ever affiliated with our company, and find some way to haul them in to court. If there is any other company out there that falls under the “direct sales” umbrella and actually has profitable and happy distributors, go after that company too. Make wild, audacious claims, because somewhere there is a judge who will believe them.

If anyone decides to become an IBO (slave) after reading any of this, they deserve whatever they get. We will NEVER, ever be free!
Tex Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Shannon #38,

The non-compete issue is the responsibility of the prospect, not the IBO. The reason Quixtar is going after MV is because up to 31,000 former TEAM IBO’s signed up, and it makes much more sense to ask MV for the informaion than 31,000 former IBO’s, from both a cost and not tying up the courts perspective. Get a clue.

Nomen Nescio #39,

So instead of letting TEAM break more rules, Quixtar enforces them. Why have rules if you aren’t willing to enforce them, ESPECIALLY in the case of potentially large numbers of former TEAM IBO’s breaking them?

Your analogy has little to do with the current Quixtar/MV/TEAM lawsuits. There are VERY simple rules that needed to be followed, and CLEAR evidence they weren’t. Just GO, TEAM!!! Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?

This case also has NOTHING to do with a monopoly, it has to do with following a contract.

Utah #40,

How low can you go Alticor? —- As low as they need to enforce their rules.
Jen Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Is Amway/Quixtar really protecting the interests of their IBO’s? Think about it for just a minute:

1) The IBO’s they are claiming were “raided” from them….HAD ALREADY RESIGNED!

2) Quixtar is TAKING FREEDOM away from their IBO’s by FORCING them to stay in a business they WANT to leave. At a minimum, they REFUSE to let those IBO’s have the FREEDOM to chose another method to provide for their families.

Taking away freedom is NEVER in the benefit of the person losing the freedom. It is only in the interest of the CORPORATION that it is protecting.

Let’s talk about honesty. A company who boldly CLAIMS to be based on christian values, blatantly falsifying information in an effort to mislead the very people it claims to be protecting. Boldly insulting. Decide for yourself who is really behaving with character.

It looks to me like Amay has taken lessons from the government on how to fool people into believing they are their protectors, when every motive and agenda they have is selfish. How do you feel to think that you are being used? Fooled? Constrained?

Maybe that’s why all the resignations…. May I reiterate, resignations that happened MONTHS before any applications to MV.
David Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Amway Sueing Mona Vie makes as much sense as if they went out and sued Walmart for having low prices that makes the ibo i mean amway property shop at walmart instead of wasting money on Q
rdknyvr Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:44 pm
All you folks crying about Quixtar’s lawsuit against MonaVie — have any of you actually read through the 34 pages of the suit? If the allegations are true, it would seem to me that Quixtar’s position is very strong and the case has merit. Some pretty amazing allegations contained therein, along with a lot of supporting examples and evidence… funny why none of you critics have addressed it on substantive grounds.
LiveFreeOrDie Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:29 am
Please allow me to proffer a possible scenario I like to coin as the “Misdirect-Oppose-Hinder-Retreat” strategy
—
The Ten Planks of Misdirect-Oppose-Hinder-Retreat (M.O.H.R.):

-MISDIRECT-
1. Change the company’s trade name to an older scandalized trade name, thus alienating many who were promised it that it wasn’t that company when they were getting involved.

2. Terminate any large distributorships that oppose the changes and have influence on other distributors decisions via positive track records and moral example - these are the most dangerous threats to the master plan.

3. Absolution through Attrition - basically hold that the company should not be held liable for the financial downturn of its distributors. Making a hostile environment conducive to a mass-exodus of disgruntled distributors that quit of their own free will is important to this end. (NOTE: most bad employers create environments where employees quit so the do not have to pay Unemployment right away.)

-OPPOSE-
4. Post negative mass media and distribution-chain emails to discredit and demoralize the distributor class, whilst propagating the company’s draconic and dogmatic “contractual rules of operation”. Also, subcontract random “pseudonym” bloggers who will loyally fight every single post against the corporation to the point of even annoying the corporate blogging department. (NOTE: the blogger should say make accusations that the corporate bloggers could not otherwise make in good conscience)

5. Buy out a puppet-faction of high level distributors and arrange them under the name of a credible group. Then proceed to indoctrinate them to propagate more negative media toward dissenters and possible legal actions – all while claiming the opposition has a negative media campaign of their own. Draconic arbitration clauses are great when paired with this, as you can keep the ‘elephant in the room’ hidden in the basement at all times.

6. Use the “if it can’t defend itself, sue it” tactic: Anyone that may create a forum of opinion and free-thought on the subject or make a thrust at objective assessment of the company’s business model/pricing/ethics/etc must be squelched/bought off/discredited or altogether destroyed to prevent any dilution of the corporate dogma. (NOTE: this is especially effective against those who no longer make financial gain from the company during a time-driven inactivity clause – as they may easily fold under legal duress.)

-HINDER-
7. Perpetuate “woe-is-me” litigation: Bring to bear lawsuits against other organizations/companies/groups/leagues that may be in competition either directly or indirectly on the grounds that they’re not playing nice. This tactic reeks of death for the company, keeping sponsor rates low and attrition rates high - as they can no longer stand on the merits of their product or system of commerce. Also use psychological “projecting” of the company’s own bad business practices onto other companies with circumstantial evidence and spin-doctor lawyers.

8. Extend existing court-orders out for longer periods to buy time to formulate new and more creative approaches to delaying or altogether discouraging former distributor groups from moving on from the rubble. This only works if you sell a few corporate holdings – such as boats, houses, private jets, or otherwise affluent possessions. This is a double-whammy, as it makes you look like you are downtrodden and need legal intervention to stop the counter-offensive against above mentioned tactics.

-RETREAT-
9. Create a failed “community building” enterprise as an offshoot in an already over-saturated marketplace. When it fails, sell it at a loss to show how bad the market is for you in North America and how things are failing on the internet for your company as a whole - so sad, but it scores brownie points for bankruptcy lawyers.

10. Finally, make a protracted legal exit from the marketplace by plastering all the woes and downfalls of the company on the terminated top-flight distributors and altogether folding your corporation’s branch in it’s native market: “Its all the (insert former distributor group’s name here) fault! They sabotaged us from the inside.” - Thus like burning your house down to claim the insurance instead of just selling your house - “That other man is the arsonist, not I. See my loss and pain? You must believe me.” (NOTE: Beware of actual employees trying to unionize their positions at the corporation – that may put a damper on all your hard work and effort.

“The web of deceit is at its worst when the liar forgets which lie came first” - Unknown

[The above is merely my conjecture and opinion based on observation of the “clues” left behind companies who wish to stop bad business practices, but don’t want take accountability for risk of reprisal. The “lopsided media war” from the company that would claim disparagement from another is common practice. This is only a possible scenario – but a very likely one. Why else would a large storied and widely successful company engage in such self-undermining tactics and “cut its nose of to spite its face”? Any references to persons or entities, living or dead, is purely coincidental.]
Lonnie Kenny Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 4:01 am
Dear Quixtar:
I’m still waiting for my bonus check for the month of Sept. 2007! I spent my money loyally on you and brought other people’s money to you as well and that’s the thanks I get?? I’m so glad I resigned my affiliation with you. I’m so glad others decided to follow my lead as well. You don’t deserve to be called a business. You’re a disgrace to the business world. When “Titantic Amway” hit the iceberg back in August it was a day of celebration for thousands of people! FREEDOM!
The name for your travesty of a business should be “Cramway”! “Scamway” is even to good for you guys! Say hi to satan while you’re down there!
JimZ Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 7:54 am
Dear Alticor Blogmeister,

I know you folks were probably involved in the Global Comm conference in Prague and now have the Easter holiday weekend - so I understand your inconsistency in reviewing and posting this week…however….

It brings to mind that you guys tend to be unpredictable and inconsistent in your updating practices. The reality is a blog this active needs a LOT of attention including nights and weekends.

I encourage you to establish a consistent internal metric for update frequency (i.e. posts submitted until 9pm are reviewed/posted within 3 hours, posts 9pm-6am are posted by 8am next day.

Also for the sake of the “momentum” of the debates, I think you should never let groups of accumulated posts linger for more than 24 hours (understanding that some individual posts you may need to “think about” and hold off posting longer).
matt Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 10:58 am
how come you haven’t posted my reply yet, you have had days to review it…either you can’t read well, or my post is too close to the truth and you don’t want others to know it…

censorship…

i love it. another communist ideal
Utah Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 11:21 am
So after reading through the Quixtar suite about MonaVie, in looks like a few independent distributors have made some comments not backed up by the FDA.

Having taken Nutrilite products for over 15 years, I think they are great. Amway has said not to make claims as to how well it works, but I have heard several coming from several different sources throughout the years. I haven’t heard they cure cancer, just work to help prevent it. Now that is not an FDA approved statement, just a rumor I heard. I would guess, despite the care the Corporation has taken to avoid claims made, we could find lots of similar problems with Amway over the years.

Some of the distributors of MonaVie have stepped in it, but how many Amway distributors did that years ago. I guess they forget that.

Amway is now just getting really famous athletes to promote Nutrilite, implying that they got where they are because of using Nutrilite. Of course, this isn’t true, as the people were really good before using it, as far as I know.

We no longer get Momma Pat from BLI. She was great. “Remember the apple”.

The new “Perfect Water” that Q/A is coming out with in a month looks great. Only about $2 per 16 plus ounce. The Youtube videos are fun. Amwaywater has a couple of dozen.

I would guess Amway Global will have to make sure that IBOs and ABOs don’t continue this non-approved non-FDA set of “claims”.
Big D Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 12:38 pm
You might as well sue them all…. MaryKay..Avon..Amsoil…NuSkin…Shaklee…Monavie…MarketAmerica…and the rest of the companies that former Amway and current Amway distributors align themselves.. I just learned yesterday of a person who was in five others than Quixtar for several years… Q, how many people do you have that participate in others already at the same time….. could it be that they had no idea that there was a non-compete slipped in under the radar… If its not on the page you sign or stapled to it, how could it be binding.. rules of conduct?… If any one knew what was in it..they would never sign up….

Its amazing that all of this sueing can go on under the radar without any media attention…. the press could have tons of fun with this one….

HEADLINES

“AMWAY SUES OTHER MULTILIVELS FOR UNFAIR COMPETITION”….

“LARGE FORMER AMWAY DISTRIBUTORS LEAVE WITH TENS OF THOUSANDS… AMWAY SUES FORMER DISTRIBUTORS FOR LEAVING”

“AMWAY LEGAL SUES TO SUPPRESS COMPETITION FROM FORMER DISTRIBUTORS… OTHER MULITILEVELS”

“THOUSANDS EXPOSE AMWAY TRUTHS… AMWAY SUES TO SUPPRESS THOUSANDS OF VOICES”

“AMWAY ARBITRATION USED TO SILENCE CRITICS…JUDGE RULES IN FAVOR OF OPEN FORUM”

“AMWAY SUES FORMER DISTRIBUTORS… “NON-COMPETE RULED WONT HOLD UP IN GEORGIA”

FORMER AMWAY DISTRIBUTORS SUE FOR WITHHELD BONUSES

AMWAY… “THE ENRON OF DIRECT SELLING”

FAMILY AND LAWYERS OF DEVOS AND VAN ANDEL SQUANDER FORTUNE

AMWAY USES FORTUNE & LEGAL TRICKS TO FINANCIALY EXHAUST FORMER DISTRIBUTORS

If something like this hit 60 minutes or the NY Times.. Its already embarrasing for me to have been associated and believed the spin for all these years about how your company cares so much about the success of your distributors… yet when they don’t agree with you you attack them and sue them into oblivion..
Utah Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 12:52 pm
The most damaging claim from the Q/A suit is that MoneVie’s label is not exactly accurate. It doesn’t say how close the label is to whatever Q/A tested. Were they within 1% or 10% or 50% of the label?

If I were the judge, which I am not, I would toss all of the claims re: the independant distributors, and then we are down to the labels and MonaVie offical advertising. Then if the judge watches the Perfect Water videos, he would through the whole case out.

The Perfet Water Video’s might be true, but they are not believable. We can’t tell where they were shot. We don’t know if they were really at Amway functions, but isn’t that the point.
Fred Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Dear Mr. Mohr
Or should I say Tex
You must be desperate to have filed that one. You know very well that Mona vie has gone above and beyond to ensure that new distributors have completed their non compete. You know very well that your non compete clause is bogus and has been found unenforceable by at least one judge. You assumed no one would ever fight this long for their freedom and you were wrong. This fight will go on and on until your illusory non compete clause is destroyed. You can’t produce one signed non compete agreement document. Your strategy is clear bind people who were put on auto renewal to a non compete no solicitation rule we will slip into (slip mind you ) the rules of conduct. Not to worry though if anyone tries to fight it they will have to spend millions of dollars in legal fees before they have their day in court. And no one will do that. You assumed there would never be an organization of leaders who would stand up for what is right. You were wrong. As a lawyer how could you expect that a non compete clause (unsigned mind you) that covers a geographic area the scope of NORTH AMERICA to be enforceable.

Tell me Mr. Mohr you must have signed a restrictive covenant with your employment contract with Alticor does include all of North America? When your bogus no compete is found unenforceable in the right court the floodgates will open and the people who are afraid of you will voluntarily leave to find other opportunities without solicitation. Just like the first 30 + thousand did. And you sir will be out of a job
ajgannon Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 11:37 pm
I mistakenly submitted a comment without getting sufficiently educated about the case. I don’t know much. I’m going to go back to focusing on my own business powered by Quixtar/Amway Global, and let the legal people do their job. Thanks Alticor for being diligent in protecting IBOs’ businesses.
disappointed Says:
March 23rd, 2008 at 9:56 am
I have been a Quixtar rep for 3 years now but with their childish and vindictive tactics, I am going to quit. I am ashamed to be a part of this company.
White Knight Says:
March 23rd, 2008 at 9:49 pm
Congratulations to Quixtar and the Legal Team for trying to resolve the issues quietly and privately when reaching out to MonaVie. Too bad Mona Vie filed the law suit first. Wonder what they have to hide? Why not pick up the phone Dallin? I see he is out on the web with his response AFTER the fact.

It is imperative that the LOS is protected from the looters and rule violaters.

If someone wants to leave feel free but live up to the rules and the contract you signed.
Clint Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Check out the false claims that amway is making!! I need to get some of this perfect water stuff!! It improves my balance immediately! Check out this page for more info:
http://www.amquix.info/amway_perfect_water.html
john Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Administrator,
I am curious if you can tell us if Alticor/Amway/Amway Global/Quixtar endorses the WWDB sponsored tip test, flexibility test and rotation test used to show the “wonder” of the Perfect Water? The reason I am curious is because Alticor is challenging “false claims” of MonaVie distributors.
Thank you,
John
Jon Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
I don’t understand what the problem is. How can Amway/Quixtar expect another company to allow/disallow anything?

I mean seriously, if Quixtar thinks that a violation of one of their contracts is happening, then deal with the person you are contracted with! Don’t go to your competition and complain. That is no different than Meijer going to K-mart and saying something like “Proctor and Gamble agreed to give us exclusive access to their board game products but now they are letting you buy them too!”

How silly. K-mart would simply say “I don’t care. Talk to them about it.” Quixtar should be in contempt of court for frivolous lawsuits in my opinion.
ng Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
now i want to find out more about monavie, thanks amstar!
UT Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!

Last time I check the “non-compete” clause only applies to those who signed the “QUIXTAR” contract.

You claim that “MonaVie is standing idly by while its distributors attempt to lure representatives away from other direct selling companies—including Quixtar—in violation of Quixtar’s non-compete policies and in violation of other companies’ non-compete and non-solicitation rules.”

Who do you think you are standing up on your soap box telling other distributors of other networking groups that they can’t talk to “your people.”

Where in the Constitution of the United States of America does it say that a Frenchman has to obey American laws while in France? or where in the American Constitution does it say that an AT&T representative can not call up someone currently recieving phone services from Qwest or Vonage and say ” here is what we have, it may be better for you.”

Do you think that you are the almighty GOD, and you have to burden yourself to come down to a lower level and tell people from monavie “Um, Excuse me you can’t talk to that person because he is mine!”

If people are even listening to other network marketing things and they have been involved with Quixtar and they decide to leave than that is your fault for not leading and communicating enough to that “piece of property” that you do indeed have the best thing out there. And it is also their perogative, if they didn’t sign a W-4 they are not an employee. As far as I know you sent them a 1099 meaning they were an “INDEPENDENT REPRESENTATIVE”

If people signed your “non-compete” clause they are the ones that are non-competing but no where does it state in YOUR RULES OF CONDUCT that other people in other business can’t even approach “your people” about a different opportunity. If they deside to go with that company before their “non-compete” clause time period is up then they are in violation of the rules of the contract “They” signed not the people that talked to them. For all they know “your people” aren’t in any other marketing group.

This is AMERICA not the QSSR. How dare you think you have that kind of authority over the lives of other people.
Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
JimZ: Agreed. We need to do a better job not letting the queue linger for too long. We’ll try harder, and thank you.

LiveFreeOrDie: Your comment was a tad lengthy, for future reference. We did allow it in full this time.

Utah: You should see it now.

Peter Chen: We allows for some HTML formatting, provided you insert it manually. Where you thinking more along the lines of little buttons to do the formatting for you? And we may allow previews in the near future, though thank you for suggesting it.
Action MonaVie Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Earth to Doug DeVos: Would it really be so difficult to just pick up the phone and discuss these issues man-to-man with Dallin Larsen (CEO of MonaVie) and maybe even Orrin Woodward himself? Just drop the lawsuits, pull the non-compete clause before the courts negate it forever, declare a truce with the whole MLM industry and all former IBOs, and concetrate on making YOUR business the best it can be.

But now that the lawyers are running this once-fabled company, perhaps the only real money-making opportunity comes through the constant filing of lawsuits. Good luck with that!

My 6-month term is coming up soon. I resigned from Q* by CHOICE. I have stayed in constant contact with both my upline and downline BY CHOICE. I have reviewed MonaVie information online and I will be signing up with that company BY CHOICE on April 1st. I have not been contacted or recruited by any MonaVie distributor, nor will I myself knowingly contact any former IBO in my downline who is not personally known to me. I have chosen to follow the leaders of Team in a path that I believe is of the highest integrity and moral forthrightness.

You may not agree with me or with the Team leaders for the actions we are taking. You are free to do so. It is a free country after all, in spite of your recent efforts to make it otherwise.
glenn Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
hey tex,

I became free on EASTER sunday ……… Have any idea what I did today? let me clue you in. I signed a church up for the leadership teachings. I went out and promoted a NEW business that I saw many years ago. It was a breath of fresh air. I have the entire TOOL SCAM and king pins to thank for helping me do the one thing that hasn’t been done by you and the others while hanging out on prague ……. I was able to think …………… take it all in and sort it out for myself.

So tell me why you never should up and took me up on the ST. LOUIS offer?

Take care because I doubt I’ll ever be on here again to see your response.

Glenn
Barbara Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
I am curious, why aren’t you putting up my post. I certainly didn’t say anything that everyone else hasn’t said!!
Tex Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Yuck, the numbering got all mixed up, so I’ll address a few of the later posts that addressed me (or Mr. Mohr) directly:

great lady #8,

If what you say is true, why place A/Q as the business opportunity?

Matt #18,

You obviously don’t understand the non-compete and basis of Quixtar’s lawsuit with MV. Read them again.

non-profit #70,

You’re not welcome in a country (or business) where you don’t want to follow the rules. Just GO, TEAM!

Looks to me like there will be a need for money counters as well, as Quixtar empties the pockets of all the Orrinites. Just GO, TEAM!

Never fear, Tex is here. Just GO, TEAM!

There’s no PV/BV on the legal costs. Orrin & Co. are no longer IBO’s, so they pay in cash, no PV/BV calculations needed. Just GO, TEAM!

Glad we could make you laugh, Quixtar will be laughing all the way to the bank, thanks to Orrin & Co. Just GO, TEAM!
Utah Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
#106 rdknyvr. If you read my last two posts, #111, 113, you will see that I have finally found a copy of Both MonaVie’s Suite and Quixtar’s. What I don’t have a copy of is the Feb. Federal Filing by Quixtar against MonaVie, so by #10 comments is all I have for it.

Let’s ASSUME both MonaVie’s and Quixtar’s suits are true for a moment. If that is the case, MonaVie should be left alone by Quixtar, with the possible exception of IF the label information for MonaVie is not accurate.

The problem Quixtar doesn’t say how far off it is. Since this is really the only thing they have worth saying “unfair” about, they make a poor case. Q/A complains about ORAC scores. They forget that MonaVie is scoring dried juice powder and comparing that to other dried powder. The people at Q/A didn’t even read what MonaVie claims.

That leaves Vit. C and Glucosamine. Q/A does NOT say how much they THINK MonaVie products, that claim they have this, actually have. Again poorly written suit.

The 3rd party suit items, such as saying MonaVie is not protecting Quixtar enough is bunk. You read the sign up form for MonaVie. They go out of their way to protect Quixtar. As far as MonaVie distributors saying non company approved claims, MonaVie rules say they hold the company harmless for doing that. MonaVie also specifically requires disclaimers posted on large signs at opens, something Quixtar has not required, nor have they released the information about earnings MonaVie has.

Other than the label claim, which Q/A doesn’t say how far off it is, the only really thing left they have is some MonaVie distributors doing what they were told not to do. Now you compare that to what IBOs have done about Perfect Water and you can see why any smart Judge would toss this whole thing out.

One other point, Quixtar didn’t respond to the MonaVie suit to leave them alone, they couldn’t because it is true, in my opinion. They had to find someother suit, which the filed. That shows MonaVie was correct.

I am not a MonaVie distributor, nor have I knowingly directly spoke to one, nor do I know of anyone that signed up in violation of the 6 month rule, nor do I know of anyone asking IBOs to sign up with them in violation of the 2 year rule.
Tex Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Fred #116,

You should say Mr. Mohr, but I’ll take this one, Mike. MV wasn’t cooperating and sued Quixtar first. The non-compete clause is reasonable and apparently hasn’t been included in a legal judgment yet. Even so, it could be appealed, and at worst, only applies to Georgia. Do you live in Georgia, Fred? You are free to go, just follow the rules on your way out. You can’t afford to fight us until the “illusory non compete clause is destroyed”, Orrin & Co. won’t have anything left after their own arbitration proceedings, which are mainly focused on the damage he did with his “illegal pyramid” lawsuit. There is no need to produce one signed non compete agreement document, there was clear language in the rules indicating the rules are subject to change from time to time. How come YOU didn’t read the rules, Fred? Why didn’t YOUR upline train you on the rule changes, Fred? The purpose of binding arbitration is not to have to spend “millions of dollars in legal fees before they have their day in court.” And anyone could do that. Orrin & Co. isn’t standing up for what is right. Just GO, TEAM!How could Quixtar expect that a non-compete clause (signed by contract clause, mind you) that covers a geographic area the scope of NORTH AMERICA to be enforceable? Easy, it’s an internet business that can be built in any part of NORTH AMERICA, because of your infallable tool scam system, according to YOUR “leaders.” That’s why, Fred.

I doubt Mr. Mohr would discuss his contract with Quixtar, especially with you, Fred. As long as there are folks like Orrin & Co., MV, etc., willing to sue, there will plenty of business for people like Mr. Mohr.
david Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 3:19 am
Hey Tex et al….

It’s great to see the six of you are back from Prague. I have to say, the administrator here was at lost without you. He /she wasn’t sure if they should post our comments or not without the six of you to defend them. You should have seen it, you would have been proud. No post for two days, then all the “perfect water’ posts omitted for another day and a half till the lawyers spanked the leaders who made them.

It was an absolute mess

So welcome home, I hope you each had a great trip. I am sure someone is sleeping better in Ada tonight now that all six of the A/Q defenders are home.
Utah Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 8:34 am
#21, White Knight,
Did Alticor/Quixtar/Amway try to fix this with MonaVie quietly? No. Not even close.

1st, they sue former IBOs that have joined MonaVie, ones that have been gone for years. This wasn’t a surprise, except the timing matched OW announcing positive things about MonaVie.

2nd, they file in Federal Court to force additional cooperation from MonaVie.

3rd, when everything that MonaVie was doing to try to help wasn’t enough, MonaVie filed in Federal Court to try to get Q/A to back off. Did MonaVie issue public prnewswire to everyone? No, they played quiet, sent a reminder to their distributors that their products were food, and to explain why they changed their sign up to help protect Quixtar. The response was great. Read the MonaVie suit. Did they write bad things about Quixtar even in the suit. No.

4th. Instead of replying MonaVie’s attempt to protect themselves, Q/A files a lawsuit, trying to crush MonaVie.

Did they do this quietly? No, not only did we get this spin/post from Alticor, but they released a public announcement on Prnewswire to be picked up by financial news groups around the country. Was this a nice press release, no, it was worse than this blog, saying everything bad they could think of, not only about MonaVie, but their distributors, products and taking specific shots at MonaVie’s founder.

Is Q/A acting like someone you want to keep defending? No.

The real problem is it isn’t Quixtar doing all this, just the people at Alticor, who by rights can do anything they want to destroy the good name of Quixtar, or what’s left of it.

Go read the Opportunity Zone blog written by the employees and leaders of Quixtar. As a whole, it is usually positive, promoting positive change, etc. with the exception when Alticor steps in or pushes their weight around.

I originally thought the whole mess was caused by Doug and Steve not leading and giving Quixtar too much freedom. If the last 7 months have taught me anything, that is no longer the truth. The problem is Alicor, which is being “led” by Doug and Steve, with their VP and legal advice Mike Mohr. With Quixtar gone, I believe it will make this situation worse.
Former IBO Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
For those who would like more on this subject, see here:

http://www.freetheibo.com/pdfs/MonaVie%20v.%20Quixtar.pdf

I think this explains it really well.
Bridgett Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
#124 Action MonaVie

You are so right! Let’s bury the hatchet. Those six years Quixtar spent, working with TEAM, trying to get them in compliance with QUIXTAR’S Comp Plan, quietly, without disrupting the LOA and the entire business community, wasn’t enough. Those Quixtar people are just so impatient aren’t they?
And then Orrin and Gang slapped Quixtar an illegal pyramid lawsuit, in order to ruin the reputation of the company and all IBOs/ABOs/Distributors around the world. How childish of Quixtar/Amway/Alticor for defending these IBOs/ABOs/Distributors. So unforgiving ,the Corp. Tsk.Tsk.Tsk.
Hey, why don’t you bring the tea and I’ll bring the scones and let’s have a friendly little party to celebrate a new cozy happy relationship we will forge?
Maybe Orrin and I could play checkers. Oh! Or how about a game of charades? That way we all could join in the fun!

We’ll have a smashing time, don’t you think? I’m getting giddy just thinking about it!
Shannon Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
I know what would solve this problem…I think Amway IBO’s need to wear a button at all times that says “I’m a Happy Amway IBO - You CAN’T solicit me! I’m under contract!”. This way, instead of mind reading as Amway suggests Monavie’s distributors are doing, it will prevent an unsuspecting person from another MLM from approaching them and showing them their business and potentially getting the Amway IBO in trouble. This will stop raiding and protect your precious LOS. So put on your blinders little Amway IBOs… oh wait, you might not even want to read this blog… you might get solicited.
ben Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
tex tex tex.

1st MONA VIE doesn’t owe anyone anything.

2nd I really feel left out since you didn’t respond or should I say react to my post #74.

3rd It seems to me that you stand nearly alone in your opinions. Keep up the good work buddy.
Fox Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
I find it vaguely amazing how many truly vicious replies have been fired off by Quixtar detractors without any actual regard for reality. Anywhere from the people who obviously did not read the article, just assumed they knew what it said, to the folks mocking the water without ever experimenting with it themselves.

Whether the complaints are legitimate or not is fairly irrelavent, with the levels of vitriol being spewed about, ‘most’ of the detractors come off as no better than lunatics spouting catchphrases.

While I see many pretending they have the moral high ground because ‘Quixtar started it’, you should realize that with your viciousness, any progress you hope to make with your message is lost.

I’ve never understood why we can’t all just be nice… (Obviously, applying to both sides)
Knows Better Says:
March 26th, 2008 at 11:25 am
I don’t think we’ve seen what Orrin is REALLY up to yet. He had to throw a bone to his congregation (and that’s what they are — he’s at the pulpit, representing all that is good), because only the top several hundred or so in TEAM are making any money selling leadership theories, the rest are starving for lack of a product to sell. So he tells them “sell juice” and God will deliver you great riches. Somehow.

And think about it. Right now, Orrin, Billy and others are selling Orrin’s book (which is a best seller only because his people buy it)and tickets to their events so that people can learn about leadership and how to sell leadership to others…so the others can sell leadership to others…who can sell leadership to others. There’s actually only one real leader, which would make everyone else fleeced.
Clint Says:
March 26th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Hey everyone, check out the latest lawsuit filed on the 13th in georgia:

http://www.datafilehost.com/download-9ba2f2ed.html
Bridgett Says:
March 26th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Blog Admin,

May I make a suggestion? If you are going to hold up publishing comments, then would it be possible to post these comments in order of approval rather than in order of submission?

As an example, in my #65 comment, I refer to comment #26.
But now, #26 has become #48, because it appears you added a whopping 22 comments in between. What’s up with that?

Now, for those of us who’ve read the original 40 comments you published on the 21st, if we really cared, had the time, and blah blah blah, would now have to go re-read from the beginning of this thread to find the 22 posts that weren’t originally published, which you published on the the 24th.

This Blog give me a headache, for a variety of reasons…
GirlPower Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
#103 Marnie:

Believe me, cupcake, A/Q has more than enough resources to transform the business AND defend themselves against the heathens from TEAM. You’re foolish if you believe otherwise. You do realize how HUGE this company is, right?
Mark Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 5:15 am
Tex,
Even with your advanced comic book law interpretation I would have thought you could have understood one of the most basic Quixtar belief’s…. The L.O.S. is confidential information… Mona Vie cannot give enrollment dates and let Quixtar piece meal their L.O.S. back together. Q has been screaming this like a lost school girl for months! As for the lawsuit, take some time and read the suit! Mona Vie wants Q’s non-compete evaluated only because Q was harrassing them. Mona Vie has everyone sign a document listing the date they are free from Q…. If someone signs up and falsifies this doc…NOT MONA VIE’s problem… Q just wants to peak into another private companies books that they’re scared of… Legally, Mona Vie met their requirement!

I know it is hard for you to understand…That cult mentality associated with Amway is a strong vice to break… The facts are the facts… Q needs to let go! The 6 months are up for the vast majority of the Team members, they have no legal standing demanding Mona Vie’s records, and quite honestly check out the youtube videos for perfect water… results 10 seconds after you drink it….talk about false medical claims???
maddona Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Can someone tell me why anyone thinks that Monavie and TEAM are one company? I looked up “acai juice”
and came up with Monavie sites, but the TEAM is not mentioned. I called my friend in FL. who sell
Mona Vie and he didn’t know anything about the TEAM. Maybe the TEAM and this OW are trying to take out MLM companies one by one. By the way, my
friend told me he loves Monavie. The company has integrity and class. Mona Vie is not a sister company of TEAM, or are they?
Thanks,
Maddona
Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Bridgett: That is one thing that definitely confuses people–the numbering. It’s not as orderly as you’d think. If you notice, I use a small bit of HTML to reference yours and others’ comments, and some people have caught onto this. Others have taken to referencing by name and timestamp versus name and number, so you’d have this:

Bridgett (March 26th, 2008 at 8:15 pm): “I think …”

It’s a bit more involved, but either method is surefire. Hope this helps.

Barbara: Which one is missing?

david: Per my response to JimZ above, yes we need speed things up. Agreed. For the record, we were moderating all the while
ben Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 10:36 am
maddona

Monavie and TEAM are not one company. TEAM is a leadership development organization and we just happen to think that Monavie is the best business out there and since we are free from our 6 month non compete, we are joining the monavie business independantly and completely separate from TEAM due to having researched all other businesses first and deciding on an individual basis that monavie has the kind of integrity and class that we have in common and a product that we can be proud to promote. Some of the TEAM has decided not to join monavie and have decided instead to join some other businesses, or none at all to which I say God bless and good luck my friends..

I hope this helps…
Jerad Smith Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 11:12 am
maddona#128

TEAM has nothing to do with MonaVie aside from the fact that several of the TEAM leaders have decided to participate in building that business as well as participating in the TEAM leadership education service. They are, however, mutually exclusive.
JimZ Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
To: #131 David

First, I never went to Prague. I think Tex did, however.

Second, I’m not exactly an “A/Q Defender” - in fact I am no longer an IBO - so I’m not “in the tank” for Amway/Quixtar.

I just believe in doing the right thing. Years ago a company tried to recruit me out of my J-O-B. But I said no, because I had signed a two year non-compete. They encouraged me to jump anyway - and said they’d cover the legal costs if there was a fight, because they were very confident the New Jersey courts wouldn’t enforce the non-compete. I turned them down on principle.

You see, I didn’t AGREE with the non-compete, I thought it was anti-capitalist. But at the end of the day I sat back and said to myself - “Jim, YOU SIGNED IT. You may not have completely understood the repercussions, BUT YOU SIGNED IT”.

It’s called INTEGRITY.

You can huff and puff all you want about Amway as the anti-christ and Orrin as Jesus Christ incarnate. But if the man is so smart then how come he didn’t realize what he had signed.

HE DID. He decided to roll the dice, believing that Amway would cave rather than face a bloody legal battle. He also decided to encourage thousands of others to gample with him.

Well, he guessed wrong. And the fact that he hurt a lot of people who chose to follow him didn’t really matter because, after all, it’s all about him - just like the other Kingpins.

He signed a contract. He reneged on the contract. Amway sued to enforce the contract. This really isn’t very hard to understand. You don’t have to be F. Lee Bailey to understand this.

So you think Amway was “wrong”. Well, if that justifies contract violations then you are just joing the ranks of people who simply don’t have good character. It is “the spirit of this age”. As old-fashioned as it seems to be good for your word, I think it’s still the best policy.
Bridgett Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Alticor Media Blog Administrator: Then we all need a computer coding lesson in order effectively to comment on this site, don’t we?
chav Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
#145.
Some of the TEAM has decided not to join monavie and have decided instead to join some other businesses.

Which ones?
Tex Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
david, March 25th, 2008 at 3:19 am

Much of the administrators (it’s a group, not a single person) were in Prague, and that’s why you didn’t see updates.

There were 5 of “us” in Prague.

The Perfect Water situation was a mess, and it is being mopped up now, just a few puddles to tidy up. Nobody ever claimed being perfect, it’s what you do with your errors that counts.

I don’t consider myself an A/Q defender, but a defender of the what is the right thing to do. In my opinion, A/Q sometimes falls on the other side of this, as we all do from time to time.
Tex Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Utah, March 25th, 2008 at 8:34 am

Yes, A/Q tried to fix this quietly, by requesting the sign up records. MV declined.

The lawsuit with Brig Hart has little to do with OW/TEAM. It has to do with false product claims. Even if the timing with OW was intentional, it has zero bearing on the merits of the case.

If you can’t get someone to cooperate voluntarily, you can attempt to do so via the legal system. That’s how it works.

MV’s lawsuit is based on two things. First, try to get the non-compete declared unenforceable. Failing that, MV wants A/Q to go after the TEAM folks, not them. Trouble is, this would be abusive of our legal system, with dozens, or even hundreds, of legal requests for information, rather than one. You don’t think saying A/Q’s non-compete is unenforceable is saying something negative? I do, it’s none of MV’s business what A/Q rules are in place. The reason MV has appeared to be so “nice” is because their president has a much less than enviable past. Are you surprised this didn’t show up on Orrin’s “benchingmarking analysis?”

Quixtar isn’t trying to crush MV, they do want to know why it appears MV doesn’t crush too many acai berries in their wine bottles, and why they make claims they can’t back up.

If all (or even some) of the claims A/Q made about MV, the distributors, products, and founder were true, they were doing a public service.

Is Q/A acting like someone you want to keep defending? Yes.

Do you honestly think Alticor and Quixtar aren’t working together on this? Ever hear the term Good Cop/Bad Cop? Wake up.
Tex Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Bridgett, March 25th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

I couldn’t have said it better myself. Perhaps more forcefully, but not better.

Shannon, March 25th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

The rule applies if you think/know the person is an IBO. Here’s a better idea: All IBO’s should wear “Just GO, TEAM” buttons. THAT whould start some good conversations!

ben, March 25th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

The courts will determine whether MV owes A/Q anything.

As I stated above, the numbering got mixed up, but I would be glad to respond to your request. I am far from alone in my opinions.

It seems silly to me that anyone could “raid a LOS”. —- Not to me. In fact, that’s part of the reason Orrin & Co. was terminated. Improper positioning of the business.

If you are a good leader then the ppl that follow will come with you whether you like it or not. —- People followed Hitler, too.

Does it not occur to anyone that the leadership of the team has acted in accordance to the wishes of the entire organization, all the way down to the new person? —- Ask all the people who lost a lot money thanks to Orrin’s missteps. This includes IBO’s not even affiliated with TEAM.

Don’t you believe that TEAM leaders were pressured into this by the majority of the TEAM who were asking over and over, why don’t you do something to get as far away from Alticor as possible? —- No.

Over a year ago I have a personal friend former TEAM member who after getting to platinum left because he said “TEAM training and comp plan is awesome but Q’s comp plan sucks and I’m leaving and starting a Gogi juice business”. He is doing very well and still gets team leadership training materials to implement in his new venture. Guess what TEAM leaders said to him? They said he should be careful of the non compete and not to come around to any more functions, thats it. You know what? He took his friends and family with him without waiting a week. Good for him! Hey Quixtar, why don’t you sue Himilayan GOJI juice while your at it. —- Provide his name, Quixtar would probably be glad to go after him. Quixtar can’t track every single IBO, but should apply the rules whenever they are aware of violations.
It's Me!! Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Man o Man,

This is hillarious. Who is the brainchild that posted this information. It is full of lies.

The Big A filed a lawsuite requesting LOS information from MonaVie. Whay is the Big A threatened by MonaVie?

Surely, the Big A has better things to do… like, hmmm, I don’t know, let me think now… how about learning how to run an ethical and moral business.

Good Luck… you will need it.
Tex Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Mark, March 28th, 2008 at 5:15 am

I view the request for information a reasonable manner to obtain the information to prove/disprove whether the TEAM folks signed up too soon and/or “saved” spaces in the MV LOS. MV didn’t want to cooperate outside the court system, now they will have the courts decide whether they need to cooperate. Simple as that, no comic book pictures necessary.

As mentioned above, the Perfect Water mess is being mopped up. Too bad MV couldn’t control their own spilled juice. The water cleans up nice, fruit juice can leave stains.
Louis Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 12:54 am
So where is the updated post from the hearing today? Oh thats right, you guys didn’t win, and refuse to be a fair and unbiased reporting company. I can’t wait to see you crumble. Even better–if I was still a distributor for Q, I’d be pissed about them retailing products in stores. Another great move.

Take care, and learn to swim, cause the ship is going down
White Knight Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 1:09 am
Utah #132

Utah, the Corporation did indeed talk to the legal counsel of MonaVie first a couple of times. Then on a Monday MonaVie filed the first law suit.

The Corporation then filed on the next day in response and added claims made by MonaVie distributors who were exaggerating claims with no voice from MonaVie to stop them.

Recap: Quixtar lawyers talk to MonaVie a few times and then out of the blue MonaVie files first. Why did MonaVie file first? I read it. Did you? MonaVie did not want to comply with the Corporation’s request. So MonaVie filed first.

Quixtar filed second because Quixtar felt the request made of MonaVie was a legitimate request.

Are you saying MonaVie is compliant? Stay tuned and one day you will see and perhaps all we read MonaVie is “hiding something?”

I am not defending the actions of anyone in this legal debate. Except to say all IBO;s have a contract and just live up to it.

There is a two year non-solicitation rule and no one seems to care. Innocent IBO’s are now collateral damage and apparently you do not see it.

Stay tuned Utah.

I am off to read as you suggest the Opportunity Zone.
Joseph W. McGuire Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 9:17 am
It’s funny, if all the pro team people on this blog quit commenting there would only be 4 or 5 people left commenting here.
George Washington Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady are free! Where is your new loud mouthed post concerning this Alticor? Give us your latest spin! Fact is it looks like you got your **** knocked in the dirt again. The unfairness that seeps from your pores is so obvious to everyone but you. Continuing to deny the truth won’t change it. You are pathetic, weak, and dying. I won’t be there for you your funeral… but please tell me who to send money to … I will be sure to fund the opposite of your selection!!
Barbara Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Blog Admin - the missing post -

I was the first to respond to your unfair competition post. It sat as #1 “in moderation” as you posted up to 40 posts and then just disappeared. Not to worry my thoughts were expressed many times over by other bloggers!!
happy to be gone Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Tex: You have been proven wrong again. Orrin and Chris are free to compete. Out of arbitration and FREE! Your arbitration system… and free to compete. Now what TEX? It’s all over but for the falling sales at Amway…
Tim Villwock Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 12:52 am
All I can say is log into www.orrinwoodwardblogharbor.com
and checkout Sunday March 30 posting.
Maybe we better not let the existing Q/A IBO’s go there. Does TRO come to mind?
Oh yea, rumor is out that there is about 250,000 cases of XS energy drinks available. Let me know when their on sale. I have a feeling I can find some wharehouse space in UTAH to put them since the magic juice is all out of there.

Tell your legal beagles I am so broke that the only thing that a lawsuit against me would get them is a better understanding of Latin. Maybe they can get Brady to tutor them with that. I heard he is getting good at his latin words.
Clint Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 10:57 am
Admin:

My comment with a link to the recent filing in georgia from many former IBOs did not get posted. Here’s the link to that filing. I encourage all of you to read it.

http://www.datafilehost.com/download-9ba2f2ed.html
Tex Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 12:38 pm
It’s Me!!, March 28th, 2008 at 3:25 pm

Quixtar filed suit because MV wouldn’t voluntarily provide dates for the former TEAM signups, and various MV folks were making claims that are not accurate, which gives MV a competitive advantage they shouldn’t have. Sounds like Quixtar is ethical and moral actions to me, especially when one considers the history of the MV president.
Tex Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Joseph W. McGuire, March 29th, 2008 at 9:17 am

Just think of the influence the 4-5 have.

happy to be gone, March 29th, 2008 at 9:44 pm

How was I proven wrong?
Eric (AEM) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 3:18 pm
JimZ 147
Alticor changed the deal. The right thing to do in that case is look at the contracts and decide which parts of them are still agreeable an which parts are not. Find out whats not and come to a conclusion that is agreeable.
Utah Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 4:35 pm
White Knight,
http://media.alticorblogs.com/2008/03/18/unfair-competition/#comment-50177
March 29th, 2008 at 1:09 am

You missed it. Lets try it again.

1. Quixtar sued former IBOs that have been gone for quite a while, perhaps years, and have signed up with MonaVie. MonaVie was not named. Q/A wanted more information for this.
2. Quixtar filed a motion to compel Monavie to cooperate in federal court.
3. Quixtar threatened to sue MonaVie if they didn’t cooperate more than they were doing. Did MonaVie change the signup to protect Quixtar, yes, was that enough for Q/A, no.
4. With the threat of a Q/A lawsuit breathing down their neck, Monavie filed in Federal Court to protect themselves.
5. Q/A filed to crush Monavie. And to make things really nasty, said bad things about Monavie, its products, distributors, and founder to Prnewswire to be send to all the financial papers around the country.

What Did I miss?
ben Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Tex 152

Provide his name, Quixtar would probably be glad to go after him. Quixtar can’t track every single IBO, but should apply the rules whenever they are aware of violations.

If you think that I would give up the “super secret LOS information” of my good friends, you are sadly mistaken, as Dallin Larson says “If someone doesn’t want to be in business with us we don’t want them and we wish them well to strive for the best they can in whatever they wish to do.” In my opinion non-competes in this industry should become Illegal due to the immoral nature of them when instituted in a “relationship marketing business”!!!

This industry has no trade secrets, you either have a business that people want to stick with or you don’t. To implement a non-compete that says you can’t join another home based business right away even if the products are in no way similar to the previous business is just plain selfish. It’s almost like making a bartender or a DJ sign a non-compete stating that their friends and family cannot go spend their money at any other bar if they chose to leave that establishment for a better paycheck and in fact must not go to any other bar for 6 months, how riduculous!!!
IBO To Go Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 10:52 am
Wow! Speak about product claims!

Perfect Water, Amway’s new product, according to their website will improve your balance, strength and flexibility!

All this from TAP WATER that has the fluoride filtered out. Again from their website.

Wow! Filtered tap water for $2 a bottle! And don’t forget, FREE SHIPPING!
Deann Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 11:00 am
Arbitration.
Closed doors.
Orrin / Chris FREE to compete.
Did they win ? Can’t tell us.

Q/A can NOT keep them from competing.
Did Q/A LOSE ?
Also can’t tell us…certainly WON’T tell us…probably post something eventually, but when they do, it will be spun in such a way as to further obscure the truth.

What’s the answer ? Doesn’t take a rocket surgeon or brain scientist ( I know, I know..I purposely reversed them ) to figure it out.

Even the Texan, Big Tex, the dude from Texas, Texas wannabe, Mighty Tex, avenger for the little guy Tex, here to save the day Tex,watchdog for MY money Tex….and finally, “TEX” can guess the right answer.

WOODWARD ARBITRATION…case closed.
GirlPower Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 1:42 pm
#155 Louis:

Q doesn’t retail their products in stores. If you’ve seen the products in a store it’s because some IBO doesn’t know the rules. Business Conduct & Rules will catch him eventually.

Also, you’re wrong if you think this company is going to crumble. Amway is bigger than your mind could possibly imagine.
Nomen Nescio Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Tex #104,

My analogy is irrelevant? Apparently a set of lawyers have stated the contrary. If you read the brief filed in MonaVie v. Quixtar, you’ll see the following:

“32. MonaVie reserves the right to amend this Complaint pursuant to Fed. R. Civ. P. 15(a) to assert anti-trust claims against Quixtar and Amway for violations of the Sherman Act for Quixtar and Amway’s inducement or threat of an unlawful exclusive dealing arrangement with independent distributors.”

Read up on your history and the law, son. Q/A needs to as well. There were a couple of documents written a couple hundred years ago, that contained the following:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; among these are *life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.*”

“The People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and *secure the blessings for ourselves and our posterity*, do ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America.”

Try as you may to take away the TEAM’s right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness like a crying baby that didn’t get his way, and you’re akin to King George II. We know what happened to that king and his army in the late 1700s.

Deny the TEAM’s right to secure their future and their children’s future, and you’re akin to a dictators like Mussolini and Noriega. We all know what happened to Mussolini and Noriega.

Tread carefully, for sooner than later, there may be nothing left of Q/A except memories of what was and what will never be again.
Utah Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:52 am
White Night,
March 29th, 1:09am
page 2

See also
Former IBO
March 25th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

Link to the MonaVie lawsuit
Item #26.

Yes, as I stated above, I had read both lawsuits. I still have not read the Motion to Compel that Quixtar filed in February. Link Please?

As I mentioned before, the only defense Q/A has for any action against MonaVie is the question of how accurate the product labels are. Q/A questioned the accuracy of them, but didn’t give us an idea as to how far off they might be. We don’t know if they are 50% or 0.0001% off.

In my opinion, the rest of the suit and press release is just a smear campain, something MonaVie has not done to Q/A.
Steve in Texas Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 1:31 am
Jim Z Post 147

You wrote: “You can huff and puff all you want about Amway as the anti-christ and Orrin as Jesus Christ incarnate. But if the man is so smart then how come he didn’t realize what he had signed.”

I applaud you on your character in how you handled the situation in regards to the non compete that you signed. I am assuming here that you had an opportunity to read it and quite possibly negotiate some ot the terms of that agreement. I sdmire your character in the way you handled the situation. I feel compelled to point out a small diffence between your situation and Orrin’s. Orrin Woodward never signed a non-compete. Nor did a large portion of his downline IBO’s including myself. There was no such thing as a non-compete clause at the time we signed up to be Amway/Quixtar distrubutors. It was inserted without our knowledge into the rules several years later. Amway alledged that by renewing we had signed the non-compete and agreed to abide by any other rule changes Q/A decided to make.

Furthermore, the non compete was inserted into the rules of conduct without any formal discussion by the IBOAI either. Orrin was on the board at the time of this change was made. A review of the minutes shows there was not a single entry into the minutes that would indicate it had ever been discussed with the board.

As for Orrins’s Integrity… I have known him personally for eight years and He is the most honest person I have ever known. As for your comment about Jesus Christ incarnate… if you knew Orrin you would understand how much this type of description would disgust him. He is a man of great faith and conviction, however he is a man. He is not perfect, he is simply a man saved by grace doing his best to serve his team.

I pray one day you have an opportunity to meet him and get to know him, because I am confident you would come away with a much different perception of the man.

God Bless,
Renshi_D Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Help me understand this, please.

Amway didn’t like what TEAM was doing, right?

So, Amway canned the two top guys in TEAM, right?

Were these two guys the ONLY members of TEAM doing things that Amway didn’t like? I doubt it.

So, if Amway is so upset about what TEAM was doing, why are they trying to retain the people from TEAM? The non-compete/non-solicitation agreement is nonsense for this type of business. Does Amway really expect friends and family to stop talking to each other because they work for different companies? What planet does Amway live on where that happens?

If I’m understanding this situation correctly (maybe I’m not), then Amway should be shoving TEAM and all of their rogue distributors out the door because they break Amway’s rules and damage Amway’s reputation (if that’s even possible). Amway should not be running to court and whining about these problem-children leaving. If these folks are just a bunch of rule breakers and liars, wouldn’t they help Amway by working for the competition and hurting that company’s reputation?

Is Amway so desperate for product volume and distributors that they don’t care if the quality of their distributors is questionable?
Eric (AEM) Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 1:22 pm
From Quixtar’s ROC

In order to preserve the goals and purposes of the IBO Plan, the Corporation reserves to itself the sole right to adopt, amend, modify, supplement, or rescind any or all of these Rules, as necessary with respect to cases of Rules enforcement.

From “FindLaw” website, under “Defenses of breach of contract”

If there is a gross inequality of bargaining power, so the weaker party to the contract has no meaningful choice as to the terms, and the resulting contract is unreasonably favorable to the stronger party, there may be a valid claim of unconscionability.
Tex Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Eric (AEM), March 31st, 2008 at 3:18 pm

I’m not sure what you mean by “the deal”, but the ADR process has been thrown out, so we’re back to square one in that area. I don’t see the name change as anything that can be challenged in court, however.

Utah, March 31st, 2008 at 4:35 pm

You missed it. Lets try it again.

1. Quixtar sued former IBOs that have been gone for quite a while, perhaps years, and have signed up with MonaVie. MonaVie was not named. Q/A wanted more information for this. —- Quixtar charged Brig and others with making false performance claims. It has NOTHING to do with them formerly being in A/Q, it has to do with them being THE largest MV distributors.
2. Quixtar filed a motion to compel Monavie to cooperate in federal court. —- This is the other lawsuit, involving TEAM folks. There’s 2 lawsuits. It’s either one lawsuit with MV or dozens of lawsuits for all the former TEAM folks. It would be an abuse of the judicial system to file dozens of lawsuits.
3. Quixtar threatened to sue MonaVie if they didn’t cooperate more than they were doing. Did MonaVie change the signup to protect Quixtar, yes, was that enough for Q/A, no. —- That’s because YOU missed the point again. The lawsuit is based mainly on false product claims. Read it.
4. With the threat of a Q/A lawsuit breathing down their neck, Monavie filed in Federal Court to protect themselves. —- They filed to try to get the non-compete thrown out, and if that failed, throw the TEAM folks under the bus.
5. Q/A filed to crush Monavie. And to make things really nasty, said bad things about Monavie, its products, distributors, and founder to Prnewswire to be send to all the financial papers around the country. —- Want some cheese with that whine? What did A/Q say that you think is untrue?
Tex Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:24 pm
ben, March 31st, 2008 at 11:17 pm

I like the non-compete, it protects my business. It may need to be tweeked based on the Georgia ruling, but the goal is well founded.

IBO To Go, April 1st, 2008 at 10:52 am

Their website does NOT say Perfect Water “will improve your balance, strength and flexibility!” It says it “…may….” Read it again.
Bridgett Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:31 pm
#165 Eric (AEM)
March 31st, 2008 at 3:18 pm

What deal did Quxitar/Amway/Alticor change?
Tex Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Deann, April 1st, 2008 at 11:00 am

Are you sure the case is closed? It appears the entire ADR has been ruled null and void.

Nomen Nescio, April 1st, 2008 at 5:37 pm

You are reading lawyer opinions, not a judge’s ruling. Two different things. Non-competes are VERY common in the business world. Don’t expect to win this one. Quoting high level documents is not the same as understanding the detailed laws.

Utah, April 2nd, 2008 at 12:52 am

A/Q also said inaccurate product claims were being made by several high level MV distributors. Do you really believe A/Q would be as stupid to sue if the labels were off by only 0.0001%?

MV smeared the A/Q non-compete.
Bridgett Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
#168 IBO To Go
April 1st, 2008 at 10:52 am

Just filtered water?

I believe JUST is an understatement given the filteration process.

And I believe that there are other “features” to the water besides the one you list.

Purification is one of them.

There are four others I believe. All on the website.

Shouldn’t take long for you to do your homework before posting a comment here.
Tex Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Steve in Texas, April 2nd, 2008 at 1:31 am

I have never heard the IBOAI Board wasn’t involved in the non-compete rule. I think you are wrong about this one. Perhaps you can ask the IBOAI Board on their blog. I would, but I’ve been “banned.” In fact, even if they weren’t involved, they certainly found out when the Achieve magazine was published several years ago. They should have protested and/or trained their new IBO’s about the new rule.

Renshi_D, April 2nd, 2008 at 12:11 pm

They aren’t trying to retain the people from TEAM, that’s why they send out the letter to all of the TEAM Platinums and above, to see if they would agree to follow the rules. If they wanted to follow the rules, they could stay. If they didn’t want to follow the rules, they were invited to leave.

This has NOTHING to do with the non-compete.
Tex Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Eric (AEM), April 2nd, 2008 at 1:22 pm

On this and other grounds, the ADR has been found to be null and void by the CA courts.
Bridgett Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:49 pm
#174 Renshi_D
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:11 pm

It’s not about non-competing. It’s about raiding.

I am personally not affected by TEAM, since they are not in my upline nor my downline. So they have no financial influence on my Amway/Quixtar business.

But there are other IBOs (who may not “plug in” the the teaching of TEAM, and therefore do not agree with the way they have builit the Quixtar/amway business) who are in their downline AND *upline*.

So it is Amway/Quixtar/Alticor’s job to “protect of LOS”

I’m not prideful to think that this couldn’t ever happen in my LOS, so I am pleased that the Corp takes on the role of protecting the LOS.

*****************************************
This is not new folks. The Corp has been down this road many times. It just may be new for some of you because we now live in the Internet world and things are thrown on a blog or two or three or four or…and we can all talk at nauseum about them.

Oh joy.
JimZ Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 3:24 pm
#173 Steve In Texas,

First, thank you for your gracious response. Agreed that I don’t know, have never met Orrin.

I haven’t researched the history of the non compete so I can’t definitively comment whether or not Orrin knew about it. The reality is, even if they added it with no comment to the annual renewal, someone at Orrin’s level should certainly read it all the way through. I assume it has to be in a written document that Orrin signed (even if it was a boilerplate renewal that added a paragraph on a non-compete. If it wasn’t in a written signed document then I can’t imagine it would hold up in court - and it appears Quixtar had won on this point in court cases.

Best regards.
Jeremy Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 4:33 pm
GirlPower,

I guess you have never seen the stores overseas that have a sign out front “AMWAY”.

they have IBO’s over there too.
Great Lady Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Seems to me that both sides are guilty of childish behavior. I joined Q under one organization that later joined with TEAM. At that time I was using the products because I liked them. It was my choice to pay the price asked. No one forced me to nor was I “scammed” as I knew what I was doing. (I am, after all, an informed adult).
Tex, go to any business, they pull you in with a promise of one thing and once you agree to their terms, they add on more. You can walk away, or stay - you have a choice.

Bate and switch is against the law, but it still happens!

I have made a choice - I left Q and TEAM behind and am getting on with my life. I will admit, however, that I come to read the blogs everyday as that is one form of entertainment. “Laughter is the best medicine.” I shall live a long time from the giggles and guffaws I get here.

Great Lady - 4/2/08 1505 hrs Pacific Time
Fred Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Renshi_D
It wouldn’t make sense that the two top distributors at Amway got to be the top guys by breaking rules and lying would it? They took years building their business, and the Woodwards were put on Amway stages and honored with recognition multiple times. Why did Amway honor them and recognize their accomplishments so long if they were rule breakers and lyres.
The reason they were sacked is because they spoke out to Amway management and disagreed with the name change and the draconian rule changes that Amway made which make it pretty much impossible for the newest distributor to build a sizable business. Not to mention the product pricing issues. Just think it through and you’ll see through the spin.
Joseph McGuire Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Tex 164
I think Tex all the influence adds up to about 4 or 5 people. Unimpressive.
david Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 8:03 pm
How refreshing is this? I am sure we will never see Amways name on this list but it is the main reason I will be joining Monavie when my six months is up.

http://www.emediawire.com/releases/monavie/network/prweb824904.h
Lynn Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 8:22 pm
A good idea…in my opinion
Lynn Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 8:42 pm
The Open Door Pledge

“As a company, we pledge to respect our distributors and the value they bring to our organization. We know our success as a company is based on the success of our people. We will not bind any distributor to our company through unfair or illegal practices, including overly restrictive non-compete clauses. Instead, we promise an open door policy and are committed to creating an environment where distributors thrive.”

I wonder if Alticor/Amway/Quixtar is brave enough to make this pledge and show that they are TRULY looking out for the best interests of their “independent” distributors. Remember, AMWAY stands for American Way. Free enterprise, not the imposition of restrictive clauses, is the American Way.

I would like to see an end to all of this senseless litigation and everyone just move on with their lives.
ben Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 10:53 pm
tex 164

To have “influence” you must first have Character and Relationships with those you wish to have influence over, which none of those people you refer to have!!!
ben Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Hey joe,

You rock my friend. See you at the next gathering!
Clint Says:
April 3rd, 2008 at 11:46 am
Hey Quixtar, doesn’t it just suck when you keep losing court battles? Check out this post about the most recent federal ruling in California. Looks like Quixtar’s arbitration rules just got thrown out the window!

http://theiborebellion.blogspot.com/2008/04/california-butt-kicking.html

There’s a link to the actual court documents in that post.
Former IBO Says:
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Speaking of “unfair competition”…..

Please see here:

Amway/Quixtar Arbitration Agreement Slammed
in US District Court in California….

“The ADR deck could not possibly be stacked
more in Quixtar’s favor than it is here.”

http://www.amquix.info/amway_slammed_in_CA.html

Former IBO

p.s. to Admin….Come on guys post it and do not lose it or delete it by accident this time. Thanks!
Nomen Nescio Says:
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:44 pm
I’m going to reply to myself from #171 here. I said:

“If you read the brief filed in MonaVie v. Quixtar, you’ll see the following:

‘32. MonaVie reserves the right to amend this Complaint pursuant to Fed. R. Civ. P. 15(a) to assert anti-trust claims against Quixtar and Amway for violations of the Sherman Act for Quixtar and Amway’s inducement or threat of an unlawful exclusive dealing arrangement with independent distributors.’”

I just find it so funny and ironic that a company like Q/A with its practices posts a blog entry about “Unfair Competition” while on the throws of being sued for Unfair Competition and Anti-Trust.

Pot. Kettle. Black. But then again by now, we should come to expect this from Q/A.
Steve In Texas Says:
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Renshi_D

You make a wonderful point. Truth be told they didn’t want Orrin and Chris because they were exposing A/Q for thier unethical behavior. Amway absolutely wanted their volume. The corporation understood what TEAM was doing from day one. As a platinum in that organization, I never recieved one complaint about our TEAM depth approach.

Orrin and Chris’s termination was never about the so called stacking. It was about a stand they took in which they refused to go forward with a company that was not looking out for the IBO’s best interest. (Non competitive pricing, the name change against the board’s unanimous recommendation and so many other issues)

The Q/A Leadership (an oxymoron) miscalculated the depth of commitment TEAM members had to their leadership. Quixtar wanted the people and their volume but they just didn’t want the light being shed on their backside.

Based on the butt kicking they took in federal court this week, it would make total sense for a truce at this point. I doubt that Amway will be in the mood for anything resembling a surrender though. Their Leadership (again and oxymoron)only knows litigation. These men are trained only to look out for number one and unfortunately will run this company into the ground if not stopped soon.

I wish you the best of luck in your business endeavors and appreciate the opinion expressed on this blog. You and I may look to different companies for support, however I am convinced we are both wanting the same things… Financial freedom for our families.

God Bless,

Steve In Texas
orrins gang Says:
April 3rd, 2008 at 5:46 pm
You all have your heads up your — and need to see how it feels to be free from the complete insanity that is AMWAY!!!! LEAVE AMWAY JUST LEAVE.. everyone alone!!! We as a large group have seen how you all behave as a company and are ashamed to say we ever even fell for the lies…
jack Says:
April 4th, 2008 at 7:27 am
I put my six months on hold and now I’m free. Stop calling me your IBO. You don’t own me anymore.
Mark Says:
April 4th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Tex 154,
I’m sorry I didn’t respond sooner, I was making money building my Mona Vie business! Interesting note here…I MADE MORE IN THE FIRST WEEK WITH MONA VIE THAN I DID IN 12 MONTHS WITH Q!Moving forward, that Mona Vie LOS you speak of..Q has filed lawsuit after lawsuit to keep theirs confidential, but you believe Mona Vie shouldn’t have that same right? Tex, this is America! Just because the bully on the block picks on me doesn’t mean I don’t have the right to defend myself! Mona Vie had to smack the bully in defense!

As for the voodoo water, I’m sorry perfect water! There were videos after videos on youtube showing the same crazy demonstration …The evidence sure looks like it was corporate sponsored training or it could be the best duplication of bad training in the history of Q! You decide??
Dave Robison Says:
April 5th, 2008 at 12:47 am
Ummm..Blog Admin?

This is one of those situations where the last entry has sat “static” long enough.

Tell “Legal” to hurry up and approve another response entry.

Dave
Former IBO Says:
April 5th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Hey guys….did you “lose” my post again? It sure is taking you fellas along time to moderate.

Come on…there is nothing to hide behind…is there???

You guys are so predictable when it comes to this.
Former IBO Says:
April 5th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Wow it just popped up right when I posted my next one….strange..??? What does that mean?
Mark Says:
April 5th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
or are they “one and the same”?
JP Says:
April 6th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
My question is, if everything that Q/A is doing is a good thing then why such a large exodus of IBOs?

JP
JimZ Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
IT’S OFFICIAL - THIS BOARD IS DEAD:

Ironic that Alticor just went to Prague to hear from the bloggers.

We are now about six plus days into “NO POSTING” on this board (April 2 mid-day to April 7 mid-day). That would be like a daily newspaper deciding to skip a few weeks between publications.

I have no idea what is going on inside Alticor, but it is clear they are not committed to maintaining this board.

So why bother stopping here, or posting here. It has become an exercise in futility.

Alticor, please either commit to maintaining the standards required of an active Blog, or just remove it as a feature.

You are half in and half out - and I don’t think that benefits you in any way.
believed the dream Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
well yes I to lived the dream of Quixtar. believed what they told us to do and did it..
Yes there was good times and times I will never forget.. I met some great friends and mentors.. its not perfect and neither am I..
we all do things that we believe that will give us what we want.. Go and do whatever you believe will give you your dreams.. dont ever give up!!!
Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
April 8th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Former IBO: Um, I have no idea. I believe your original comment in question is published. And there’s no fun in predictability, believe me.

Dave: Not Legal’s hold-up. Been busy reading your Prague posts

JimZ: Fair enough. And since you bring it up: what would you like to hear about? (This goes for anybody).
JimZ Says:
April 8th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Alticor Blogmeister,

I think the key issue is frequent updates of comments, since for the most part people are reading and responding to other comments - and we end up in some “dust-ups” that benefit from momentum.

What would I like to hear about? Well, gee, thanks for asking:)I genuinely appreciate that.

I would LOVE to hear a company voice in response to the “themes” that are raised in the comments here. For example, some common themes include: Where you stand on court cases (not just the good but also the bad), where you stand on how the motivational systems are administered by “kingpins” (yea, that one would definitely be like walking through a mine field), product pricing. Just pick a theme (ideally one that has not descended into psychotic screeds yet) and tell us what the company thinks.
Dave Robison Says:
April 8th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
I’d like to see a post responding to the apparent “loss” in the legal case being discussed among the commenters. Maybe, corporate’s stance on, “what now?”

Also, Perfect Water and the “tipping” videos have been discussed…maybe a little more on those claims, right? wrong?

And maybe, the current situation with this blog. It needs to survive and thrive. Is it a priority for the blogging program at Alticor.

And thanks for reading the “Prague” posts at my blog.

Dave
Nomen Nescio Says:
April 8th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Admin: #208,

I’d like to hear some respect from your execs in Ada. Every single crying press release your lot puts out mentions Orrin Woodward as “Terminated Amway Distributor Orrin Woodward”. You don’t even have the decency and respect for a human being to refer to him by his given name. Just to maintain your shredded, diluted, and misguided sense of authority, you keep referring to him and others as if they were your property. the 14th Amendment prevents that. Doesn’t your lot there read history?

And worse off, it makes you look really bad in the media and the business world. Grow up, please.
Renshi_D Says:
April 8th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Bridgett,

Raiding?!?!?! Give me a break. If you have a unique, strong, profitable business opportunity then why are you worried about raiding? You should be excited that these folks are approaching your people…this way your people can show them the great money making opportunities in Amway and bring these outside distributors into Amway. For some reason I don’t think it works like that. Are you only in favor of free enterprise until it threatens your business?

Amway made their bed with TEAM. Then they kicked the top two TEAM guys out. What did they think the rest of TEAM would do?

This fear of competition is ridiculous. Are there so few people available to bring into Amway that there is a need to “lock” distributors out of other companies? Why can’t an Amway distributor sell other things, too? What is wrong with diversifying your income streams or your product offerings. My local grocery store sells a lot of different brands of hot dogs, laundry detergent, and vitamins. What is wrong with an “independent” business owner choosing to offer more variety in product choices to the customers they service?
Renshi_D Says:
April 8th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Fred,

I have thought it through. My ironic statements went right over your head. I was playing a devil’s advocate.

The reality is that Orrin and Chris were going to have to leave one way or another. Quixtar was going back to the Amway name and these two guys just spent the last 8 years telling everyone their business opportunity was not Amway. What kind of options do you think those two guys had?
Renshi_D Says:
April 8th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Admin,

I would love to hear about how Amway is going to crack down on the rogue distributors who are making false claims and phony “demonstrations” about the new “perfect water” product. The videos of these guys acting like snake oil salesmen are all over YouTube. What is Amway doing to protect the integrity of their business from scammy product demos like the “tip-test?”
Tex Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 12:48 am
Great Lady, April 2nd, 2008 at 6:06 pm

I’ve dealt with plenty of businesses who don’t change the deal. In fact, most don’t change the deal. Although I also use humor on the blogs, the tool scam is not a laughing matter. It has financially and otherwise damaged many people for many dollars for many years.

Fred, April 2nd, 2008 at 6:25 pm

The problems you list do not qualify for repeatedly breaking rules listed in the termination letters for at least 6 years.

Joseph McGuire, April 2nd, 2008 at 6:39 pm

There are many more readers than posters. It was important enough to A/Q to fly me and 4 other bloggers to the Czech Republic and talk to an international audience.
Tex Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 1:00 am
david, April 2nd, 2008 at 8:03 pm

How refreshing is this? Looks like Dallin is playing the same song, different verse with Mona Vie. Hope your 6 months is up before they are shut down.

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/news/2003/new00976.html

Lynn, April 2nd, 2008 at 8:42 pm

Mind your own business. I like the non-compete and non-raiding rules. It keeps the rifraf out.

ben Says, April 2nd, 2008 at 10:53 pm

This has little to do with influence, it has to do with following rules.
Tex Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 1:09 am
Steve In Texas, April 3rd, 2008 at 3:51 pm

Perhaps you never recieved a complaint because Quixtar expected Orrin and Chris to fix their 6 year long repeated problems and they obviously never passed down the corrective actions to you and the others in TEAM.

There were a number of problems, including inappropriate stacking. The name change and non-compete haven’t been around for 6 years, and the 6 year repeated rule violations are the basis of the terminations.

There’s no need for a truce, the decision in CA has nothing to do with TEAM, it has to do with the ADR, which wasn’t mentioned in Orrin’s CA court case. The reason is because Orrin didn’t want his tool scam exposed in court, just Quixtar’s prices.
Tex Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 1:13 am
orrins gang, April 3rd, 2008 at 5:46 pm

You all have your heads up your — and need to see how it feels to be free from the complete insanity that is TEAM!!!! LEAVE TEAM JUST LEAVE.. everyone alone!!! We as a large group have seen how you all behave as a company and are ashamed to say we ever even fell for the tool scam lies…

jack, April 4th, 2008 at 7:27 am

Never did own you, just had a non-compete rule, which is very common in the business world.
Tex Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 1:16 am
Mark, April 4th, 2008 at 7:51 pm

Glad to know you have made easy money. Easy come, easy go.

Quixtar wants to know if former IBO’s broke rules, they don’t want to use the Mona Vie information for competitive purposes. Get a clue.

Neither. It was erroneous information on the Perfect Water site that has been removed. The people making those videos shouldn’t be trusted in the future, they have no common sense.
Tex Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 1:19 am
JP, April 6th, 2008 at 8:40 pm

Just doing some trimming to keep the plant healthy.

Alticor Media Blog Administrator, April 8th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

I’d like to hear what you’re going to do about the tool scam.
Utah Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 2:07 am
Alticor, April 8th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

Lets see:

Status of Amway in UK? (BERR)

Will the IBOAI exist after the “merger” of Quixtar and Amway? If so, will it grow to include others, and will it help protect all Amway ABOs everywhere?

Will the 3% bracket be removed in the US and Canada just like some other locations in the world?

Some smart person was able to negotiate settlements on all the Q/A lawsuits - both ways, and that Q/A had to lay off attorneys because there wasn’t any more fighting.

Lets start there..
Eric (AEM) Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 3:32 am
Whats the issue with people leaving a business for another one? What some people call ‘raiding’. People are not things you can’t take them away just because you want to. They have to want to leave. If they leave because they feel that’s the best thing to do then who cares? If your business is good enough you won’t need to worry. If you’re downline falls apart and your upline falls apart deal with it, it happens. It happened to me (long before we aligned with Team) for reasons totally non business related. To me ‘protecting the LOS’ means ‘keeping people in that want out’. Who are your ‘protecting the LOS’ from anyway? Business’ that look better to IBO’s? If people want to leave let them leave. Does it matter if they were encouraged to leave? No, why should it? They are making a free choice to leave.
You know the best way to actually Protect your LOS? Take a honest look at the problems with your business and FIX them. Make your buiness the best in the world, then other other companies will worry. It’s called free enterprise, that’s how it works.
Bridgett,
The ROC has been changed many times without the IBO’s knowing untill after the fact.
DaveC Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
I don’t want to wish any ill on Amway, but Lee Adam Herold shows the public view of Amway six and a half years ago and it hasn’t improved since:
http://www.choppingblock.org/d/20010808.html
http://www.choppingblock.org/d/20010809.html
http://www.choppingblock.org/d/20010810.html
DaveC Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
By the way, this post by alticor is a pack of lies. They only want to protect themselves not the IBO. How is not allowing the IBO to have other sources of income protecting the IBO???????
GirlPower Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
#185 Jeremy:

Nice point.

Unfortunately, the Amway business plan in other countries (w/their ABOs) differs from the plan in North America. This blog is focused on N. America so I’m referring to what goes on here NOT there.

Thanks for your 2-cents though.
DaveC Says:
April 10th, 2008 at 6:50 am
So are you going to post my comments?
Dennis Marshall Says:
April 10th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Alticor Media Blog Administrator: On April 8, 2008 at 3:36pm You said to Jim Z “What would you like to hear about? You said this goes for anybody.
What I would like to hear is what Rich Devos thinks about all of this controversy. Specifically, does he believe in the non-compete clause. When you look back at history he and Jay VanAndel did the same thing in a free enterprise world. I brought my children up to believe that the Amway Corporation was a strong advocate of the FREE ENTERPRISE SYSTEM.
I was very excited that we are going back to the AMWAY name. If we come out into the open and present a strong way to make money we will not have to be ashamed ever again. Mr. Devos, What do you think?
freedom Says:
April 10th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Personally, I say let them fight it out and the last person with money in their pocket wins.

Bottom line is, I personally have had team people, AFTER they quit Quixtar, solicit me with their full intention to get me to leave Quixtar and join up in their “leadership development business”, during the 6-month period, while they were out telling people they were in “pre-launch.”

I also have never agreed 100% with Quixtar/Amway and think they needed to make some changes for a long time.

And NOBODY except the Diamonds and Quixtar people in the room back then knew what happened and, in my opinion, both sides are telling lies to their people to get them to stay.

But when all is said and done, WHO CARES? Let everyone sue everyone forever if they want. Whatever they do doesn’t affect me one bit. Everything still comes down to people getting off their tails and building their business, whichever one it is. And if the teams leadership development business is better than the new Amway business, or the other way around, in a couple years the numbers will speak for themselves. And no amount of blog comments will change the facts we see in 2009, 2010, and so on…
DaveC Says:
April 11th, 2008 at 5:12 am
By the way, if the A/Q/A MLM is so good, why not allow the IBOs the opportunity to engage in it and other MLMs at the same time? If any MLM is viable and profitable, it should be able to stand COMPETITION. Isn’t that the AMerican WAY? But then the AMerican WAY doesn’t mean what it meant forty of fifty years ago, does it?
jack Says:
April 11th, 2008 at 6:29 am
Unfair Competition?
sorry but that just sounds funny to me after thinking about it. Competeition is about finding an edge to win and using it to get to the finish line first. In this situation people got fed up with not being able to win and they voted with their feet. quixtar/amway is not looking to find the edge that will make all r distributors winners they are looking at how they can make themselves winners and that is why mona vie seems unfair to you because they are just daring enough to think about the masses
Clint Says:
April 11th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Tex #216:

Stop believing everything that you hear and spreading lies. Dallin Larson was *NOT* the head of that company and actually left before that happened.
Tex Says:
April 11th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
DaveC, April 9th, 2008 at 12:47 pm

Do you honestly get your perception of a business from the comics?

DaveC, April 9th, 2008 at 1:25 pm

Read up on TIF. Then ask an intelligent question.
The Big Apple Says:
April 11th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
Renshi_D (April 8th, 2008 at 9:03 pm)

Free enterprise does not mean that you’re free to do what you want. So, you want it to be possible for Amway distributors to sell other products because that’s the free enterprise way of doing things. Do you also want Amway products to be sold in stores? Could you even have a business if they were advertised and sold in stores?

The Amway Sales and Marketing Plan has been upheld by the U.S. government through the FTC. One aspect of the plan being the prohibition of Amway products being sold in stores in the U.S. Is that a rule you’d like abolished?

The restriction of selling anything downline below your frontline has been in place for a long time. The premise is that you’ve sponsored your frontline, but the next level down was sponsored by your frontline, and those people shouldn’t be imposed on by you, their sponsor’s sponsor, or your upline.

Take this example: Let’s say you have a 18% group with several legs, and Nutrilite is a major part of your business. Your sponsor, who also happens to be your Platinum, starts selling a competitive supplement to Nutrilite XX. However, you are not part of this new business, you don’t like the competitive product, and you don’t buy it.

So, you declined to buy from your sponsor, but he goes around you and starts selling to your downline against your wishes. Your Platinum is a trusted leader to your group, and your downline, perhaps being more naive because of less experience in the business, believe the Platinum and buy the product. You are helpless to do anything.

Your XX business goes down the tubes destroying your group’s belief in the business, and your group and income is ruined. How would you feel? Your trusted Platinum just came in and destroyed your business.

This is why rules like this are in place.

The people who don’t like these kind of rules are usually those that have little to lose. If you see Platinums who don’t like these rules, they probably aren’t making much money at Platinum. This could either be because they spent a lot of money on BSMs, or they built organizations with a lot of depth and little to no width, or both.

As to protecting the line of sponsorship (LOS), the basis of the logic is similar. You sponsor your frontline, and although you may help your frontline or downline sponsor, ultimately they are the sponsor of their frontline, and so on. It takes a lot of work to build a large organization. If you’ve been as successful as, say, Dexter Yeager or Charlie Marsh, your LOS goes on further than anything you’ve ever directly worked on, and the Plan rewards you if you build this massive an organization. (And, every LOS leads back up to Amway Corporation, so Amway is the actual upline of all lines of sponsorship.)

A competitive start-up multi-level organization would like nothing more than to be able to go in and “appropriate” an entire Amway LOS for themselves. All those years of hard work by many IBOs are gone — gone for them, and for Amway, and the income goes with it. That is thievery!
It’s not just the immediate upline that is affected, either. Since the monetary effect of a large organization with deep downline goes very deep, many upline IBO’s income are affected.

This is why the entire LOS is protected.
nonprofit Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 8:34 am
I’d like a little input about the Mona Vie statement calling for the dissolution of the noncompete clause by all MLM’s. A gutsy move, they’ve basically drawn a line in the sand saying they don’t fear any company’s ability to raid their LOS. This is an open invitation for Quixtar/Amway IBO’s to offer their business model to Mona Vie IBO’s. Talk about “Unfair Competition”!
I couldn’t help but notice California and Georgia courts have ruled that the noncompete is unenforceable. Like it or not, it does set a standard for future rulings. It may have been a wise move for Mona Vie to call for an end to a clause that likely won’t stand up in court. MlM’s who agree will save themselves countless litigation fees. Defending this clause is not only costly but the ends don’t justify the means. Those IBO’s will leave eventually anyway if the opportunity is worth the change.
Wouldn’t MLM’s efforts be best spent improving their business model to keep IBO’s from migrating away to another venture? If in fact the business they offer is a win win for both the IBO and the company, competition is a moot point. To borrow the words of former British Prime Minister, Tony Blair. The true measure of a company isn’t how many are trying to get in, but how many are trying to get out.
Tex Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
jack, April 11th, 2008 at 6:29 am

Do you think it’s okay for an employee to take a bunch of other employees from a company to form a new one? Even if you do, there are often non-competes that prohibit this practice and are enforced by the courts. A similar situation exists here, grow up.
ibofightback Says:
April 13th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Renshi_D, re the perfectwater videos, it’s my understanding the corp contact the leaders of those groups and successfully got virtually all the videos removed. Unfortunately well known critic Scott Larsen had by this stage shown his ethics and lack of respect for copyright law and saved and reposted them all under his own “amwaywater” account. Youtube has since disabled that account.

There’s still a couple of IBO videos up, hopefully they’ll be removed soon.
freedom Says:
April 14th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Looking back, there are two things I find very interesting about what the team “promised” me last year:

1) “Wal Mart Pricing”: Unless I’m missing something, Mona Vie at the wholesale price is actually more expensive than Double X’s retail price

2) Wasn’t one of Chuck Goetchel’s “problems” with Quixtar the fact they were going to sell direct to people? I go to the team website and find out their “leadership development” store will be open soon. When they start selling direct, is that money going to be passed down to the lower levels or is Orrin and the other “Diamonds” going to pocket the money while still hitting everyone up to pay for legal fees?

I don’t know anymore what is going on in the team. What are we supposed to be? Leadership development? Mona Vie? Both? All I know is my upline, all the way to Diamond (prior to the terminations), did a very good job of making sure I never looked past them for information. They never wanted anyone questioning, or searching out, or researching, anything. They wanted me to get ALL MY ANSWERS from someone upline. Well, if my upline had a hidden agenda, and that is the ONLY place I’m looking and getting information, (good or bad) what decision am I gong to come to????

There is a reason why politicians are mostly full of #@#!#$$% and each side tries to get the other side not to question anything. Because questioning something, and looking at both sides, leads to facts. Blindly following leads people to make their decisions based on a one-sided opinion.
Monster Mash Says:
April 14th, 2008 at 8:45 am
Why are their no posts on this site? I have a hard time believing you have learned your lesson. I would like to know, like I am sure evryone else would, what is your response to the decision in California that basically siad your arbitration rules are grossly flawed and unenforcable.

I am sure it is because Orrin and Chris did something wrong to make it that way. Come on! Please I am dying to here your explanation.
Nomen Nescio Says:
April 14th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Tex #179,

Judging from what happened on 4/1/08 in California, various judges are in agreement about what is fair competition, what is stacked in whose favour, and interpretations of antitrust. You say it has nothing to do with TEAM, but it does. It has to do with every IBO who decides to leave Q/A, which includes TEAM. Also, it leaves the door open to have the decision made in 2007 to be reopened and reinterpreted, and ultimately REVERSED.

It’s amazing what set precedents can do. So please do us a favour, and please don’t act like you know what is correct with the law. You’ll only embarrass yourself.

Tex #216,

No-one said that MonaVie is an FDA Approved Drug, nor has any claim of that occurred. Just like your lot at Q/A hasn’t said the same thing about XS, or your ‘perfect’ water. So be careful of what you say. Once again, Pot. Kettle. Black.

The fact of the matter is, Q/A’s non-compete clause is unenforceable, because it can be and has been changed without IBO’s notice, and impedes on fair competition. When the Sherman Antitrust act slaps it around a couple of times, you’ll see how ‘right’ it really is.
College Kid Says:
April 14th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
I joined you opportunity in 2006 hoping to be able to provide a way to be home with my future family. Unfortunately, the products were so expensive that I couldn’t afford to by them once I got married. I am waiting my 6 months (May 16 here I come) to join another opportunity that I see as more viable. I am in college, recently married, and have a baby due in November. I would not have decided to leave your opportunity if I felt that it was honestly the best I could find. I believe that I have found something better. I don’t think that it is fair that you are trying to force me (formerly an INDEPENDENT business owner) to follow your decisions. I loved your company and the dreams I thought I would be able to achieve through it, however, like a typical consumer, I am going to go where I believe it will be in my best interest, and the best interest of my family. I am sorry that it makes you mad that you cannot compete the way you are. I would think that it would be easiest to fix your company so that people would flock TO you in droves instead of away from you.
White Knight Says:
April 14th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Hey Steve in TX #173 in your answer to Jim Z’s post 147 . . . Steve you stated the non-compete was inserted without any input? You have known Orrin for eight years? A review of the Board minutes? Not a single entry? Furthermore Orrin was on the Board?

Is it true you have known Orrin for eight years? From what view point? Orrin was on the IBOAI Board in 2005, 2006 and would have retired from the Board in December 2007. The IBOAI Board and Quixtar first looked at the non-compete in 1999. The Board actually asked the Corporation to look at the issue. It was discussed for four years. It was vigoriously debated, revised and passed in March 2004. The non-compete was not “inserted” but published for all to read in the May 2004 issue of the Loop. The Loop had a full two pages 81/2 by 11 size detailing the new rule. It was also published in the Achieve and sent via email to all Platinum’s and above.
So Steve, Orrin was not on the Board in March 2004 but he did take an oath of office and received a copy of all Board actions for the two years prior to officially joining the Board in February 2005.

Perhaps someone confused you or mis-spoke but the rules that are modified or if it is a new rule are widely publicized. It has been that way since 1959.

Not sure who reviewed the minutes and told you there was not a single entry but again they are wrong. Perhaps they just wanted to make the IBOAI Board look bad?

Wish you the best in your endeavors.
Scarlet Pimpernel Says:
April 14th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
A comment to Renshi_D post 212 to Bridgett

I am confident Brisgett can respond on her own to you. However, you ask why worry and compare Quixtar to a grocery store? Get real.

There is no fear to competition but there are rules of engagement. Just follow the rules and leave accordingly.

Many join the business to make a little money and enjoy the business. Some sponsor others and enjoy the fruits of their labor. They do not complain about the rules. They do complain when the people they put in the business are recruited into another competing business when the recruiter only met them as a result of meeting them through the Quixtar business.

Some IBO’s are even retired and enjoying the rewards of the IBO Compensation Plan. It is detrimental and disruptive to these folks when Orrin runs in and sells his CD’s and book to their groups. They sit silently hoping for the best and then Orrin files a lawsuit that could have been 5 pages but grew to 47 pages filled with more junk. Orrin then joins another mlm but is there some doubt about how he joined? Did Orrin take some of the affiliated people too? Oh yeah, they just followed or something like that? Or were they following a tool compensation offerring?

Why not ask Orrin about his non-compete he established with TOD and Team when it came to being a part of the tool compensation plan?
Brenda Samuels Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 1:04 am
Hey Tex from April 2nd. What does the FDA thing have to do with Dallin Larsen.

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/news/2003/new00976.html

Dallin had already been gone for over a year before the FDA thing happened. Dallin left because he totally disagreed with Gary Raser’s (the president of Royal Tongan Limu) methods of running the company which got them into this jackpot. Not sure if you noticed, but Dallin is not mentioned anywhere in the FDA story, nor is he mentioned anywhere online or anywhere for that matter with anything related to the FDA issue with RTL.

Brenda
Tex Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Clint, April 11th, 2008 at 1:20 pm

Stop believing everything that you hear and spreading lies. Do you have proof Dallin Larson was not the head of that company and actually left before that happened? Do you have proof he was against the practices that got that company shut down? Did he leave because he didn’t like what was happening, or a rat that jumped off the ship when the heat started to build?
Tex Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 10:38 am
nonprofit, April 12th, 2008 at 8:34 am

Mona Vie should mind their own business.

Monster Mash, April 14th, 2008 at 8:45 am

They are probably appealing the ruling and don’t want to discuss the issue publicly right now.
fred Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Tex 235
Tex Perhaps you or someone else at Amway should produce all those signed Non Compete agreements. That would certainly clear things up.
fred Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Tex 218
What is very common in the business world (sounds like you’ve never owned one) are signed non compete clauses as part of or added to a contract. Not slipped into some rulebook. Q legal must be manned by high school drop outs.
Clint Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Admin: Why did my post about how Dallin Larson was not the head of the company that Tex posted about (#216)? Why isn’t it pointed out that he also left that company *before* that happened! Stop telling half truths and whole lies!! Don’t let Tex taint the minds of everyone that comes on here by his false posts!
Nomen Nescio Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Tex #235,

Actually, what you described has happened many times over. For example, 2 people had an idea they presented to Faball, who created the popular Hammer bowling balls, the idea didn’t go well with them (they were laughed out of the building, as Faball’s executive board said that they were the best, and no-one could beat them). Those two people walked out along with 7 others, took the idea to Ebonite International, and made a ball better than Faball. Result: Hammer went under, Ebonite became the #1 ball manufacturer from 1992 - 1997. In 2000, Ebonite bought out Faball and has become the biggest ball manufacturer in the world.

Happens in Technology. the graduating class at the Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champlain created the first big web browser, NCSA Mosaic. They incorporated in 1994, creating Netscape. Netscape was then purchased by AOL. AOL told the Netscape developers in 2003 they would be laid off, and would be developed by AOL in house. Those developers instead, left, and formed the Mozilla Foundation, and released Firefox, which is, along with Opera, one of the biggest community supported browsers in the world. And Netscape? AOL announced on March 1st of this year that it is dead, and to use Firefox instead.

All contemporary history. You should read up on it. But like Victor Hugo and a ‘Terminated’ IBO have said many times over, “There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.”

BTW. After the Sherman Antitrust Act takes down the non-compete, just imagine how many lawsuits against A/Q will pop out of the woodwork when the Clayton Antitrust Act gets hold of A/Q after Sherman is done. Just think of how many people were ‘injured in his/her business’ by antitrust.

It would be interesting to see how Mohr would get out of that one, and still have a job.
IBO To Go Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
TexSpin #235 Says:
“Do you think it’s okay for an employee to take a bunch of other employees from a company to form a new one? Even if you do, there are often non-competes that prohibit this practice and are enforced by the courts. A similar situation exists here, grow up.”

I thought they were Independant Business Owners TexSpin. Or are they employees, cattle, property, slaves?

Wise up.
Tex Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Clint,

I also suggest you read paragraphs 89 and 90 of this document:

http://www.amquix.info/pdfs/monavie/2-08-cv-00209-db-02.pdf

It clearly shows my “rat jumping off the ship” story is the correct one.
ben Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
big apple

That is what this country is founded on. “free enterprise” my friend. We are talking about creating communities of people who will buy stuff on a website therefore creating market share, if you can’t keep your market share that is part of “free enterprise”. Everyone in the free world has to deal with it so why should it be different here? If my upline found another venture that was better and more profitable and was willing to contact my people for me and sign them up I would sign up as well, why be left behind with a business that is less profitable? The $$$ lay in the market share not the product. Come up with an awesome product line as well as an awesome comp plan and you won’t have to worry about much. That is what free enterprise is all about…

tex

I’d like to say that none of us are “employees” we are independant business owners or contractors.
Steve Says:
April 16th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Tex,

This is not a similar situation to you analogy in post #235. IBO’s are not Employees! They are independent. They are not subject to Minimum Wage standards, they have no benefits and they have no recourse for improper suspension. Employees have rights. IBO’s Do Not! (as proven over and over again by Quixtar’s legal staff) But hey… thats fixin to change!

If I work for a terrific leader in a particular company and that company subsequently dismisses him, I am going to evaluate the situation and if it is in my familie’s best interest to leave my job and follow him/her in whatever endeavor they choose, you bet I am going to follow them. Companies don’t create loyalty, People do!

You still don’t get it. You think Orrin raided the company and cannot see how the leadership of Q has any responsability for the mass exodus they caused by terminating Orrin and Chris in the first place.

As an employer, I always contemplate the fallout of letting an employee go. You can’t honestly think that the Q leadership thought they could kick Orrin and Chris to the curb and the people on TEAM would just sit idle and do nothing. Thats absurd!

When Orrin left, he never called me to say “hey come with me.” That would be raiding. However I did call him to say “Wherever you go I am right there with you”. You see, I am loyal to the people I TRUST! Right now, SA-8 couldn’t clean up the mess at Amway! I wouln’t follow their leadership into a steak house even if they were buying!
glenn Says:
April 16th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
hey tex — read your post - look up the definition of “employee” and “sub contractor” — I know your on the amquix payroll —– therefore you are an employee bound to toot their horn. A sub contractor (ibo) gets a 1099 and no benefits. That is exactly what you got as an IBO from quixtar, NO BENEFITS. Give your lame excuses a rest and go back to Europe with the rest of the groupie blow hards. your story is about as old as the posts on here.

Bet it’s getting lonely in that one man band of yours.

Have a great day.
The Big Apple Says:
April 17th, 2008 at 9:45 am
nonprofit,

Early in life, when you have little or nothing, you are far more willing to take risks than later in life when you have a lot to protect.

Mona Vie has little to lose and LOTS to gain by coming out with a statement calling for the dissolution of the noncompete clause by all MLM’s.

Amway/Quixtar, with $7.2 billion dollars in sales (that’s at IBO prices) has everything to lose.

Neat little populist trick, isn’t it? Play to all the unsuccessful people who want something for nothing. Rather than go out and find people who are willing to build customers (yes, customers; it is possible) and recruit others to do the same, they just want to “take” the structure of people already there. That is thievery!

Would you be so quick to agree if you were a Platinum, and had worked hard to build your business?
jack Says:
April 17th, 2008 at 11:16 am
the funny thing is nobody on my teams would have ever had anything to do with Quixtar. tell me that isn’t a clue.
Bridgett Says:
April 17th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
#233 The Big Apple said, “The people who don’t like these kind of rules are usually those that have little to lose.”

BINGO. BINGO. BINGO. BINGO.

YES. YES. YES. YES.

:) :)

And, don’t let the pin on the lapel fool ya. If an EDC of Quixtar doesn’t believe in following the rules, he’s probably making a ton more $$ than his Quixtar income somewhere else. Can we say Leadership Service Provider?
Jeremy Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Tex your post #235 How’d Amyway get it’s start.
They raided another company. Hince the name American Way, free enterpise system always favor the better mouse trap!
Jeremy Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
1. Why did you leave Quixtar?

I left Quixtar because they would not change their broken (in my opinion) business model. My original letter to Doug Devos was written in the fall of 2005 and spelled out the issues clearly. I had been working with Billy Florence and Don Wilson since 2004 to drive change in the Quixtar business to no avail. It does not take 3 plus years to lower prices, put more income into the plan, and address and fix the business discussed negatively online. The ability for the new person to achieve success in Quixtar was deplorable in my opinion. My letter to Doug Devos clearly explains that over 600,000 people who speak English as a first language signed up into Quixtar in 1999 and 2000. Out of these 600,000 IBO’s (misnomer?) only six achieved Founders Emerald or above by the end of 2004. This is 4 to 5 years and only 1 out of 100,000 achieved $87,000 annual income from the plan with both the husband and wife working exhaustively. Out of those six who achieved Founders Emerald by 2005, five were on the Team – Tim Marks (Founders Diamond), Doug Stroh, Mike Foos, Matt Abraham, Kirk Birtles were all founders emerald or above by the end of 2004. (I believe this is the five.)

The business stalled further after 2004 and now all of the above Diamonds (Doug Stroh went diamond in 2006) and Founders Emeralds have all resigned in disgust over the poor business model of Amway/Quixtar. Can anyone name a diamond in Amway/Quixtar who signed their application after September 1, 1999 that speaks English? The joke on the internet is that Amway should change their way to Imway (Immigrant Way). I love and respect all the different nationalities and I believed Amway should provide a business opportunity for all nationalities. Instead of spending tens of millions of dollars on legal battles to force people to stay in your business through fear and intimidation – why not use that money to reduce prices and provide a legitimate opportunity? With the DTI Shutting Amway down, Pokorny Lawsuit against the company and tool systems, Hydrabad action in India, Nitro vs Amway, and numerous arbitration lawsuits against former IBO’s and to top it all off the name change back to Amway - I no longer wanted to be affiliated with this legal mess.

I felt it was absurd when I realized that I could not leave with my lifelong friends and family without the risk of litigation. I thought it was tough getting people into the Amway business, but I never realized how tough it was to leave the Amway business. Can you imagine a Sam’s Club sending “greeters” into the parking lot to convince you, your family and friends that you are shopping with to come into the store? You humor them and agree to come in thinking – “what’s the harm?” They tell you it will be a small fee and then you can save money and make money on any referrals. You think that sounds good and sign on. After looking at the prices you come back to the greeter and tell them the prices are not better and you, your family and friends would not want to shop there. The “greeter” gets irate, slams and locks the doors and states you have agreed to a non-compete. The “greeter” yells, “After all that hard work to get you in here, how dare you even think of going somewhere else and ruining my business!” You say “What?!” The “greeter” responds, “You have a non-compete, it’s in the fine print in a book that you will receive in another week. You cannot leave with your family and friends, because they are part of our trade secret.” You raise your voice and say, “But this is my wife, my children and my friends.” The crack legal team is already issuing a Temporary Restraining Order to keep you from talking to your family and friends. They would not want anything discussed about their “wonderful opportunity.” All you can do is apologize to your wife, children and friends and pray the authorities will come and fix this before others get hurt.

It would be laughable if it wasn’t so truthful. Amway followed through on their threats to make it hard to leave and sued me and others in Grand Rapids, Confidential Arbitration, Nevada, Texas, and even bloggers commenting on the cases—all of these cases continue to this day. Let’s not forget the IBOAI (The trade association that protects and serves IBO’s?) suing for damages the former Board members who said enough is enough.
Edward Says:
April 21st, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Tex #235

Wow, this is exactly why my family and entire organization left Quixtar. We are NOT employees. Besides, I did not sign up for Amway and my team did not as well. And after finding out the change and also the ridiculous actions taken by Amway, we knew our decision was the correct one.

Why do you still defend this company?
GirlPower Says:
April 22nd, 2008 at 3:31 pm
I’ve got to agree w/some of the other posters. If you’re going to have a corporate blog you need to have a moderator who is going to take care of it daily. The occasional moderation has become a bit ridiculous.

For some companies blogging is helpful. In this instance it’s anything but.
Brad Obert Says:
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:28 pm
hilarious,

8 days, no updated posts. Perhaps a billion dollar company could add 1 or 2 more moderators so we could view them before they no longer matter.

Or maybe I’m still wasting my time checking here.
DaveC Says:
April 23rd, 2008 at 6:18 am
Tex,
I get my perception of anything from what makes sense. I won’t make any comment about your intelligence or lack of thereof if you do not recognize that often comics and commedians have a more realistic view of reality than the general public. I don’t know if you even believe in God, but I do and I believe His Word. In Psalm 2 it says that God laughs at those who oppose Him. I think that He also laughs at those who tell all kind of lies and call them truth. Wasn’t it Hitler who said that if you tell a big enough lie loud enough and long enough you will be believed? On the other hand I seem to remember someone, I think that it was Orrin Woodward, saying that when a man of integrity is not believed he lets time prove him right. Well, I don’t care what anyone says, but the way I see things, the more time that passes, the more time is proving Orrin Woodward right. Let the reader draw his or her own conclusions.

“Fire and Honor”
DaveC
Utah Says:
April 23rd, 2008 at 2:13 pm
So did Quixtar North America and MonaVie settle this or not? If they didn’t, it is because Q/A doesn’t want to.
Lynn Says:
April 29th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Food for Thought…

“Non-Competition Agreements: Overview

Some employers may require new employees to enter into non-competition agreements before beginning work, and such agreements usually take effect after the employer-employee relationship has ended. Employers may require non-competition agreements for a variety of reasons, including protection of trade secrets or goodwill. However, courts generally disapprove of non-competition agreements as limitations on a former employee’s right to earn a living. Therefore, when made the subject of a legal dispute, non-competition agreements are closely scrutinized in the court system.

Legal Requirements for Non-Competition Agreements

In order to be considered valid, a non-competition agreement must:

* Be supported by consideration at the time it is signed;
* Protect a legitimate business interest of the employer; and
* Be reasonable in scope, geography, and time.

Non-competition agreements must generally be supported by valid consideration — the employee must receive something of value in exchange for the promise to refrain from competition. If an employee signs a non-competition agreement prior to beginning employment, the employment itself will be sufficient consideration for the promise not to compete. However, if an employee signs a non-competition agreement after beginning employment, the mere promise of continued employment will not be considered valid consideration for the promise. In this case, the employee must receive something else of value in exchange for the promise. Such additional consideration may consist of a promotion or other additional benefit that was not part of the original employment agreement.

Protection of Legitimate Business Interests

The goodwill developed by an employer in terms of customer relations is an asset, so an employer may use a non-competition agreement to prevent a former employee from capitalizing on that goodwill and competing with the original employer. Likewise, an employer may use a non-competition agreement to protect its confidential information. Generally, in order for the information to be entitled to protection, the employer must show that it took reasonable measures to keep the information secret, and that the information gives the employer a competitive advantage.

Reasonableness is a Key to the Agreement

In deciding whether to enforce a non-competition agreement, the court will balance the need to protect the employer’s legitimate business interests with any burden that enforcement of the agreement would place on the employee.

Non-competition agreements must be reasonable in duration and scope. The reasonableness of the duration of the agreement will depend on the specific facts of each case. For instance, if the non-competition agreement is designed to protect confidential information, the duration should be no longer than the time for which the information has value. The geographical area covered by the agreement must also be reasonable considering the circumstances. This will depend greatly on the services provided by the employee, and the importance of the services to the employer’s business. Generally, courts will not allow a non-competition agreement to prevent an employee from working in a geographical area where the employer does not do business.

If a court finds that a non-competition agreement is overbroad, it may narrow the scope and duration of the agreement and enforce it as modified, or it may refuse to enforce the agreement entirely if it finds that it was clearly intended to prevent legitimate business competition by the former employee.

Non-Competition Agreements: Getting Legal Help

Employers have a right to protect their relationships with their customers and their confidential information, but former employees have a right to earn a living. When the employer and the employee have entered into a non-competition agreement, these interests must be balanced. If you have questions related to the enforcement of a non-competition agreement with a former employer, speak with an experienced employee rights attorney to ensure that your legal rights are protected.”

Any comments???
It's Me Says:
April 30th, 2008 at 8:42 am
Some very interesting news regarding Mr Fred Harteis.

http://www.fredharteis.com/

“I have resigned from Quixtar and I am working with Team Leadership. There have recently been many false comments posted on various websites and blogs that I am still an IBO with Quixtar. This is false, I have resigned from Quixtar and I am no longer an IBO.”

Is this the start of a mass exodus?

I guess Amway will soon be selling Life jackets for only $5,000.00 each plus $1,000.00 Shipping and Handling and 1.25 PV 2.5 BV!!
George Says:
April 30th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
#233 I agree… People should be forced to stay with certain products. I mean what would we have if they weren’t, anarachy…ummm no Free Enterprise.

Webster lists it as:

1. an economic and political doctrine holding that a capitalist economy can regulate itself in a freely competitive market through the relationship of supply and demand with a minimum of governmental intervention and regulation.

2. the practice of free enterprise in an economy, or the right to practice it.

A non-compete is direclty against freely competitive market of supply and demand. Maybe I am just underthinking it and looking at this as a free American, but I am sure there are always people to disagree ( by the way there is no non-compete there, you are free to disagree)

#235 No, it should not be ok for one employee to take others with them when they go.
However, it does happen.

Maybe I am still confused by still being free.
Great Lady Says:
April 30th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Hello - anybody home? The blogs sure are quiet these days - guess I better get a job.
Steve Visser Says:
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:32 am
To the Big Apple…

Your whole argument on protecting the line of sponsorship became moot when this blog posted the “Just Go Team Go” article.

You say that Dexter and Charlie build these massive organizations. Actually they had help. No disrespect intended. I have tremendous respect for Dexter’s leadership. I do not know Charlie Marsh so I will not comment on him. But the fact remains that they had help. So it comes down to leadership. People follow Leaders plain and simple.

Had Amway treated Orrin and Chris with respect, they would not have nearly the problems they are having now. They underestimated the influence these leaders have earned with their groups. They underestimated the loyalty. They miscalculated, thinking loyalty to product would be stronger than loyalty to people.

If Amway was the least bit interested in protecting the IBO’s line of sponsorship they would have never directed that article be posted. If Amway was concerned about their IBO’s they would have never changed the name. If they were concerned about their IBO’s they would have never terminated Orrin, Chris, Billy et al. If they were truly concerned about their IBO’s they would have addressed the pricing issues along time ago. If they were really serious about keeping their IBO’s they would quit adjusting PV/BV in their favor on every new item that becomes a hot seller. (example would be XS energy drinks).

Face facts. Amway has done a hundred times more damage to IBO’s than the leadership of TEAM could possibly have done. The TEAM tried to leave peacefully. It was Amway who would have nothing of it.

I doubt this will get posted but what the heck, we’ll write it just the same. Who knows.
Jim English Says:
May 3rd, 2008 at 11:34 am
Jack

I totally agree with you, it’s wrong for an employee to take a bunch of employees and start a competing company with the intimate knowledge they gained in that company, BUT, IBOs or any other independent Distributor from other companies are NOT employees, and they do not have access to anything proprietary that would give them an advantage in another MLM. If
Q/A thinks they have something unique then have IBOs sign a non-disclosure for that method.

I very much doubt that folks bringing any marketing methods they learned in Q/A would work in a company like MonaVie or any other modern day MLM for that matter. Truthfully, it’s the MonaVie method that is unique. They use a secret weapon!! It’s known as TRUTH, RESPECT, REWARD and full DISCLOSURE.

Distributors actually make a great living selling the MonaVie product. They don’t have to relay on flogging marketing materials. Are there MonaVie Distributors selling materials? The answer is yes, but there are only 3 of them. They had to earn that privilege by reaching the rank of Black Diamond. And considering there are now about 50 or 60 BDs and above, it’s not something that most BDs are even interested in doing, because they actually make great money just marketing the product.

Bottom line, treat your IBOs properly Q/A, and allow them to earn the money they deserve and not the money YOU think they should earn. Happy and respected IBOs don’t need a non-compete to keep them there.

James
Utah Says:
May 14th, 2008 at 3:35 am
The truth about amway is reporting that the BERR is announcing the ruling in about 1.5 hrs. Any truth about that?
Utah Says:
May 14th, 2008 at 9:15 am
Amway can stay in England.

A judge in the United Kingdom has dismissed government claims against Amway’s operations there, saying major reforms last year fixed faults in its business model.

The ruling clears Amway UK, a part of Ada-based Alticor Inc., of the threat of expulsion from the country, one of Amway’s oldest international markets.

Spokesman Rob Zeiger said the ruling was a “solid validation” of reforms implemented by the company to head off regulatory actions last year.

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