Alticor Media Blog

Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.

March 10th, 2008 @ 1:00 pm ET…

Mis-leader

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Terminated IBO Orrin Woodward’s recent decision to ask for contributions to his “legal defense fund” was such a low point that we cannot let it pass without comment.

Since his termination for unacceptable business practices last August, Mr. Woodward has done nothing but confirm, repeatedly, our decision to let him go.

We think that any objective person viewing the record would agree that:

He has abused the legal system by filing multiple, frivolous lawsuits that have been dismissed with prejudice.
He has abused business relationships of people he partnered with for more than a decade by repeatedly violating his contract commitments to respect the Line of Sponsorship of others.
He has abused his fiduciary responsibilities to his trade association by inducing others to disgorge confidential information and violate court orders.

Now, true enough: in response to those abuses, we threw him out of the company, the IBOAI threw him out of their boardroom, and judges threw his cases out of court.

So why drag our dispute back out into the light?

Because we believe that Mr. Woodward now is using distortions and untruths to justify bad ethical decisions he made – and attempting to get others to pay for his own ill-conceived lawsuits and mistakes. He is putting his downlines at legal risk without telling them. And he is attempting to raid Quixtar organizations, in further violation of his contract.

We can’t tell people how to react to these behaviors, other than to advise our business owners to contact Rules or Sales immediately if there are approaches made to your groups.

But in the face of a new round of misrepresentations from Mr. Woodward, we can – yet again –set the record straight.

So we will.

Mis-leader, in court

The original dispute: We terminated Mr. Woodward in August 2007 after he repeatedly refused to clean up his abusive business practices. Well before his disciplinary meeting approached, Mr. Woodward had hired a big-ticket law firm and ordered them to draft a federal lawsuit. He then filed that lawsuit within hours of his termination.

Mr. Woodward claims filing a lawsuit accusing us of operating an illegal pyramid was a negotiating tactic, part of a spiritually motivated attempt to reconcile our differences. It would be more accurate to say it was a premeditated attack on our business model, designed to drive every IBO in the US out of business and into the arms of a new venture he was planning.

Mr. Woodward and his legal team then coordinated an astonishing blitz of more than one dozen lawsuits against our company filed across the country. The timing and language of the suits were nearly identical, Mr. Woodward’s associates seemed to know instantly about all of them, and the same attorneys seemed to showed up in case after case.

Mr. Woodward claims the blitz was a spontaneous, grass-roots uprising. How he can say that in the face of all evidence to the contrary is beyond belief. We’re sure his behind-the-scenes communications tell a very different story.

And Mr. Woodward fueled his litigation attack with confidential documents belonging to the IBOAI, a trade association where Mr. Woodward had been a board member. Mr. Woodward’s associates stonewalled court orders to return the documents, which did not belong to them, and which they had sworn – twice! – to keep confidential.

Mr. Woodward claims he had nothing to do with the documents. The fact is, it seems obvious his lawyers used those purloined documents to write their lawsuits. In fact, a judge has now held Woodward associate Billy Florence in contempt of court for violating a court order related to those documents.

The result: Mr. Woodward’s federal lawsuit was dismissed with prejudice. Most of the spam lawsuits have been dismissed or evaporated. (And a recent Georgia legal document circulating online was never entered. Therefore it does not carry legal force – a fact Mr. Woodward’s associates, unsurprisingly, failed to point out.) Instead, courts have ordered Mr. Woodward and his associates to abide by their contacts and arbitrate. Mr. Florence has defied a court of law. Mr. Woodward’s strategy of legal harassment and attack is failing, miserably and utterly.

Mr. Woodward is a businessman. He knows what contracts mean and why he signs them. He could have honored his contract, followed the rules that govern moving to a competitive business. But he chose not to play by the rules, chose to initiate this massive legal fight, chose to jeopardize the businesses of thousands of IBOs.

Mr. Woodward could still choose to pay for the fights he picked. To watch him leave his money in the bank – and ask others with less to foot the bill for his poor decisions – well, call it what you want, but just don’t call it “leadership.”

Mis-leader, in the field

And a final thought: When we choose to fight, we choose to fight to protect the businesses that Quixtar and our IBOs have built.

But when Mr. Woodward and his associates encouraged mass resignations from our company, they did so knowing they would devastate the businesses of a number of Quixtar business owners who refused to be bullied into following him.

When Mr. Woodward encouraged those resignations, he knew some those who did follow him would lose income when they left Quixtar, and that he had no way to replace that income for them. But that did not stop him from encouraging those same people to spend hundreds of dollars replacing his lost income at rallies in Louisville and St. Louis.

When Mr. Woodward encouraged people to follow him to a business with “Wal-Mart pricing”… and then instead abruptly threw in his lot with a company that offers only a handful of ultra-premium priced products… he knew he would lose more of the people who followed him once and for all.

And when Mr. Woodward permits forays into our sales groups, seeking to split more people away, he knows that he is encouraging people to break rules and court orders and put themselves at risk. Worse yet, he does so knowing he’s leading people down a path of promises that lead to disappointment.

Mr. Woodward would no doubt find some historical figure to justify his actions.

But we cannot.

Because when we look at Mr. Woodward’s actions over the past six months, all we see is a manipulative person, abusing the principles of values-driven leadership that our business tries to teach. Put plainly, his recent actions are enough to make all of us who care about helping people build businesses more committed than ever to protecting IBOs from this kind of malicious manipulation.

Filed by: Corporate Communications

Posted in: Alticor, Quixtar

274 Responses to “Mis-leader”

JimZ Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Well, the problem, you see is that you are mere mortals and you are trying to analyze the unfathonable wisdom of a god. Orrin is no mere mortal. He is Winston Churchill, Jesus, Buddha, Mahatma Ghandi and Socrates all rolled into one person. I doubt the world will ever see a god quite like him - at least that’s what he keeps telling us.

He also is very humble, and when he tells us of his god-like wisdom and capabilities beyond any normal human being, he not only does so with genius, but also with great humility.

Now many will argue that many a demagogue and many a manipulator has come and gone, and each one makes similar claims so that we mere mortals are not in a position to question them.

But Orrin is different than these manipulative shysters. I can’t tell you exactly HOW he is different, I can only tell you that I feel warm when I think about him. My doctor has offered a few other explanations for that warmth (which sometimes is accompanied by dampness as well), but deep down inside I know the real reason is that Orrin is a modern day George Washington….uhh, without the wig or wooden teeth of course.

So why should he pay the freight on this incredibly well thought out plan of removing a massive number of IBO’s from Quixtar?

I know that on the surface it looks like he’s a hypocrite and that he said he’d “go Wal-Mart” but instead he’s going 5th avenue. But you’re really just not understanding the genius that is Orrin.

You see, if he tried to create a WalMart type business that’s just what you would be EXPECTING him to do - and he’d lose the element of surprise.

So…now follow me on this…as a master tactician he is going to go in the OPPOSITE dorection because that’s JUST what you won’t expect him to do. THEN, when he’s caught you all off guard and has started executing his brilliant plan he will……um….he’ll do something ELSE you aren’t expecting.

We all just sit back with our mouths open as we try to contemplate that wonder that is Orrin.
Former Ohio IBO Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
The only I can even begin to try to explain this continued baseless and unwarranted attack on Orrin Woodward is a quote I read not too long by Oliver Wendall Holmes:

“Controversy equalizes fools and wise men - and fools know it.”

It is obvious the fools at Corporate legal know it!
Clint Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
These posts illustrate a few key things:
1. Alticor is scared. Why don’t they just let it go? What happened to “just go team.” Let them go already. They had their own way of tracking LOS, so it’s not just Quixtar’s property. Drop it already. Keep in mind that LOS is typically made up of friends/family… of course entire lines are going to drop around the same time. The business relies on building relationships.

2. The immaturity of Alticor management. These tactics are nothing better. They’re actually stooping to a level lower than Orrin even began to. The arguments presented are referred to as a red herring fallacy. Instead of arguing the true points, they’re trying to attack the person presenting them. Poor job even at that. Go back to Orrin’s blog and read his story about all of this. You won’t find a single personal insult. Why won’t this blog and the company just answer some of the questions or just drop it all together??

3. Alticor wants to play on a double edged sword. Orrin obeyed the 6 month non-compete…let him go. Why is it getting extended? Honor your end of the contract.

I have never in my life seen a company act in such a reckless manor. It really makes you question the company. There is no level of professionalism here and there hasn’t been since all of this started. Stop acting like a little kid alticor!
rdknyvr Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Have to say that I fully agree with Corporate Communication’s post above. Keep up the good work.
Tex Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
JimZ #1,

That was good. With what Orrin and the others have done, Quixtar should stop nothing short of emptying them of every penny they possibly can, and requiring them to make a permanent and public apology for his actions.

What’s amazing about his blog, complete with historical references, is his material looks good on the surface. But alas, he is just another lying cowardly “kingpin”, except he couldn’t just shut up and keep collecting the tool scam money.

Former Ohio IBO #2,

The problem with Mr. Holmes quote is there is controversy only in YOUR mind. I know the facts, and there is no controversy when it comes to Orrin and Co.
Barbara Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
I must say - you have absolutely left me speechless. How low can you go and how much more pathetic can you become??? After all YOU have done and after all the IBO’S YOU have hurt with your continued arrogance and actions can you continue this charade as if we were all born yesterday???? Anyone will any sense - common or otherwise, can see the TRUTH IN ALL OF THIS. PEOPLE ARE LEAVING IN DROVES BECAUSE OF YOU - NOT ORRIN!!!!
almost free Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Why can’t we all just get along? You ask us to JUST GO and now you won’t let us. If your business is that good then why fight. Because you know the pattern for leaving is set. FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jerad Smith Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Here we go again. Let’s just look at the beginning of this post to see how much distortion is coming from the Corp.

“We think that any objective person viewing the record would agree that:

*He has abused the legal system by filing multiple, frivolous lawsuits that have been dismissed with prejudice.

*He has abused business relationships of people he partnered with for more than a decade by repeatedly violating his contract commitments to respect the Line of Sponsorship of others.

*He has abused his fiduciary responsibilities to his trade association by inducing others to disgorge confidential information and violate court orders.”

The first bullet point is an opinion.

The second has never even been shown through evidence. Much less proven.

The third has also not been shown to be accurate.

Yet the Corp mentions then out of hand as if they have already been accepted as fact.

Then let’s not forget the thouroughly debunked claim that Orrin had a new MLM.

Shame.
fuddman Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
This blog site is for negative only and after spending some time with a close family member who is quite high in the ranks of Q he siad exactly that. He said that the last 6 months has been nothing but Orrin this TEAM that no positive except very few things. He said at one of the high meetings it was just a bashing of what Orrin and TEAM are doing their was no biz talk just bashing and for that he is now quiting your great JOB. If you ever checked out Orrins blog their is never a negative message he is always positive and gives great life advice for this he is a great person we all have the foundation built to POSITIVLY change ppls life (sorry about the typos)I only checked this blog because i knew in the next days or weeks you all woould have a bashing comment and by god it was a hit one for one how predictable!
Utah Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
While I would agree that Orrin has made some mistakes, so has Alticor/Quixtar/Amway.

The first question is, whose mistakes caused the IBOs that did resign, or fail to renew on purpose, to do so. I think you will find the majority left because of the mistakes and change of direction of Q/A, not Orrin. Of course that is just my opinion. I have always said it would be a good idea for people to decide for themselves.

I have NEVER been contacted by any of what is left of any LOS to leave Quixtar. If they didn’t ask, then why would I even think about leaving Q/A after over 16 years? Can you say the actions of Q/A? I hadn’t even heard of Orrin until the last couple of years.

Did Orrin cause the situation in the UK or India, or the stagnation of sales in the US prior to August 2007 ?

Did Orrin cause Alticor decide to rename Quixtar to Amway without the backing of the North American field? I saw this as a sign that the IBOAI didn’t have real say anymore. I had thought, and still do think, that Q/A can’t change the plan or rules without the IBOAI’s approval.

Since I have been purchasing Q/A products, and have attempted to retail products, I have made more money in other areas of my life from what I have learned from the systems of books, tapes/CD’s, and meetings. It hasn’t just been the money.

I didn’t sign up with Amway for just the money.

I have felt the last 7 months that Altior/Quixtar/Amway has left the principles that I have defended for so long. This last post doesn’t lead me to believe in Q/A more. I haven’t had to go to Orrin for that information, Q/A has provided it.

If this legal defense fund is just for Orrin, which is what you are saying, I would be surprised. I thought it was for all the others Q/A was going after.
quitesimply Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Dearest MDI… A wise man once told me and many others a quote which I believed this leader believed.

If I were still in Quixtar, I would believe these things said about Orrin and the other leaders that resigned/ were terminated (it happend at the same time so it is a matter of perspective) To all who read these lies and believe them…PLEASE understand that these lies are not coming from people who you would normally listen to, they are coroportate lawyers who are paid to defend thier coroporation even if it means lying.

Having been gone now for almost my 6 months now, things are so much clearer. This would seem offensive to you who are living in East Berlin but the propaganda you have been told about what is on the other side of the wall is NOT TRUE!!! Thier system of econonomics is not a success and they will shoot you if you try to see what else is out there. To S and M who I will always love and respect…WITH ALL DUE RESPECT…

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
- Samuel Adams, August 1, 1776 at the Philadelphia State House

For the sake of your children, grand-children and all that follow you. Choose liberty

As far as Orrin and the other leaders, “People of Integrity expect to be believed and when they are not, they let time prove them right”
Anon Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
If everything is going so well, why would Mr. Devos have his $22 Million Yacht, “Enterprise 5” for sale? Why would he be selling his toys?
Josh Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Jerad Smith #8,

Uhh he did have a new MLM. Shame on you.

Second, just because the corp wants to speak, even if it is opinion or fact, are they not allowed to do so? They state this as fact, because it is what they perceived to happen, and potentially know FAR more about the case than you or I.

Do you write to Orrin at his blog and say the same thing? Oh wait, he only lets those posts that agree with him through his filter. (Believe me I have tried on multiple occasions to get post there).

Orrin continues to run his mouth almost incessantly, while asking for handouts like some pauper on the street.

I tell you what, if OW was my downline and this was happening, he would be in court with me until the day he dies. Remember is hurting somebody’s business. Indirectly it has hurt all our businesses.
rdknyvr Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Anon, maybe it’s because he has a faster and better yacht called ‘Windjammer.’

With all the time you ‘Orrinites’ have to sit here and throw stones it’s obvious that you’re not out selling much of his new ‘magic juice!’
john Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
It is beyond amazing that you call what Woodward shared re the IBOAI “trade secrets”. These so called “trade secrets” are no such thing. They are absolute facts that should be shared upfront with every single prospective IBO. A pathetic retention rate should not be hidden while the boldface lie that this is “the best business opportunity in the world” is proclaimed by these so-called kingpins. I am not a Woodward fan and actually place him in the exact same catagory as Puryear, Britt, etc. Just like the unanomous decision by the “ENTIRE” IBOAI to vote no confidence in your name change - and then they come out now and act as if they think it is the greatest thing in the world. An ounce of integrity would build your business infinitely more than the mountain of deceit that you allow to be promulgated by your kingpins.
Clint Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
rdknyvr #14

I encourage you to look back through the comments and the post. You might be shocked to see who is actually throwing the stones. And many of us can’t quite go selling the “magic juice” yet because we are honoring our 6 month non compete contracts. I would also encourage you to look up more on MonaVie. I think you’ll be surprised to see that they’ve achieved as much in 3 years that it has taken amway/quixtar to do in 50. Seems to me that I’d rather be selling something that has nearly 100% positive on the internet versus something that has nearly 100% negative on the internet.
Jerad Smith Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Josh #13,
So, what was this MLM? Where can I get any info on it?
kjteam Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Does “corporate communications” have a name? Did you all huddle in a corner and write this like thiefin’ elves. Put your name to the blog. I would like you to observe that Orrin Woodward put his name to the blog. Now who are you again?

The truth is, that Orrin has done something that I only wish I was in a position to do. This is our fight not just Orrin’s. I want to be free to pursue what ever capitilistic endeaver I wish after my 6 months is up.

You corporate smugs are so scared up there right now that you resort to half truths and spin to make your story plausible. I guess you did learn from NBC’S 20/20.

I do agree in part with Tex on part of the tool issue,Although Tex, your one sided attacks against Diamonds and not Quixtar is confusing. I don’t agree with you on the making money part, or that fact that the information is not needed,, but that “control” issue that was forced upon IBO’s that did not agree with tools. We were called communists if we didn’t agree. This starts from Rich Devos, down to Dexter Yeager, and so forth. However, Quixtar/Amway were very much on board with this. It was very profitable for both at the expense of the rank and file downline. Board members sit behind closed doors thinking of ways to “Spin” high prices, to “Spin” tools, to use the very loayalty created in their downline as a way of manipulating and controling. So now we need to be also controlled by Quixtar lawyers.

I can take some action though. I think I will take the names off of the Quixtar’s LOS, that they built, (this is sarcasim) and put it to a petition of my congresional leaders calling for an investigation of harasssment of myself, my downline and my leaders. I will print off blogs sponsered by Alticor communications and show to my congressman the unnecessary harrasment by corporate lawyers.
It is an election year.
Brad Obert Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
No response anywhere to the “auto” renews the corp “allegedly” has done. Unless it’s a forgery I did read what appeared to be a pdf file containing text from a Judge talking about the Quixtar Morrison case. Is this pdf a fraud? The top of this page says Docket #06-20138 and appears to have chronological events about the Morrison case for approx 2 years.

And the GA court document I read addresses the clause. Are these documents frauds?
Josh Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Jerad Smith,

I would contend, although my personal belief, that OW already had MonaVie in line, if things did fall through with Q*. He already had a crack legal team before hand with a “leverage” lawsuit. Even if at the time it was only in theory.

There were rumors about it FAR before last August about TEAM leaving, so to think that there was not something in the works, again even if in theory, is very naive on your part.
quitesimply Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
rdknyvr…just wait to see how much juice moves after we have all sat out our 6 months…yes…we are following the rules as our leaders suggest…you ain’t seen nothing yet!
George Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
HAHAHHAH

It is always sad to see stuff like this.

The attacks have come to be common. On one side we are told to leave, but you feel you have to chase us and as posted here…Chase till the end of time.

Yeah, I guess Alticor is right, they are the company of choice, they just forgot to add the or else clause….

Standard statement “let time prove us right”
Cheryl Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Thank you Alticore- I have wanted to support the legal defense fund, but just haven’t taken the time to do so. It is amazing that the only negative I ever hear is from you and your supporters. Interesting, you say, he is doing all the negative talk however since this dispute all we hear is negative from you. One reason that my belief in Orrin and Team has grown, is because they have walked the walk on holding the line. They don’t slam you and they have waited their six months. After all you are the ones that told team to leave. Too bad, that you guys can’t learn by watching people of integrity and character. True Leadership has been exemplified by Orrin. Because of this last slamming article you have been a catalyst for me to donate. I bet I am not the only one that decides it is time to support all us former IBO’s and current ones.
The Closer Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
You know what they say, all it takes to have an opinion is a mouth. This site is such a bunch of bull filled with untruths. I just hope that the people who don’t know the truth already, go and find the truth and not believe this just because it’s on the net…..

All I can say is you better know who you’re following and what is it they want for you!

As quoted in Billy Madison “We all feel more dumb for reading this blog!!”
Bill Smith Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Leaders take responsibility and find solutions while losers point fingers and place blame.

What position has Mis-leader taken?

I would rather hear you comment on;

“In the Superior Court of White County, the Honorable Chief Judge David E. Barrett ruled that the non-competition clause of Quixtar’s contract was “invalid” and will not be subject to any arbitration.

and

“Amway was officially sent packing from the United States 5th Circuit Court of Appeals. Amway, after having their arbitration clause declared “illusory” and “unenforceable,” in the Morrison v Amway case, filed a petition on 2/20/08 requesting a rehearing on the matter. That request was denied today” (March 6th, 2008).
Utah Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
#18 kteam,
As far I know, Corporate Communications, represents Alicor, and therefore Doug D. and Steve V. I have wondered if one of them has written some of the posts. It is also known as Media Info.

The last I saw in print, Rob Zeiger was director of corporate communications for Alticor. Since he got that position in 2004, If he was behind the Go Team Go blog posts, I would have thought he would have been given an other position. That is why I think this is backed by Doug and Steve..

If anyone at Media Info wants to comment..
White Knight Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Amazing, This entire event started when ow and his cohorts stepped outside the “rules” and broke their contract with Quixtar with the CA filing. This filing also had many affidavits which takes a long time to not only write the complaint but obtain the affidavits.

Hello . . . ow and his cohorts were attending meetings of the IBOAI and being paid for airfares, lodging and per diem while prepaing a lawsuit? The lawsuit was 47 pages itself. The complaint could have been 4 or 5 pages. It was longer not for the rule of law but for an opportunity to spill silly unnecessary and immature folly.

The act of filing was wrong and ow along with his cohorts should publicly say so. They all signed a contract and many served on the IBOAI Board so they knew the facts. In fact ow and his cohorts deplored others publicly who previously did the same thing.

The CA case has been dismissed and now moves forward according to the contract as it should have in the beginning in mediation/arbitration.

That single action was going to cost ow money win or lose. Now he is asking for money because he lost? What if he was successful? It would still have cost him money and he would still be “asking” others for money about an issue he started?

Amazing.

When ow was terminated he should have rejoiced and followed his contract for wrongful action. He did not.

Who paid for the attorneys ow?
Who hired a firm to write letters to be placed on the web for the ow cause?
Who hired Chris DeWitt who works for the MI Democratic party to work as a Team spokesperson?

Amazing.

C’mon ow and cohorts just follow your contract and stop all of the bs.

Leave within the rules like those who left before you.

Oh and ow stop bad mouthing the corporation as you did in the CA filing. It brought you a nice liveihood and platform.

Too bad you (ow) could not simply follow the rules and the display in GR, MI with everyone outside and inside the courtroom was just more you. I guess it was always about you.

Call it what you want but don’t call it leadership.
John Doe Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
After the famous “Just Go, Team” article, I didn’t think Quixtar Legal could stoop any lower. But I now see there’s no limite to how pathetic and unethical they are willing to stoop.

If Quixtar was seriously wanting to fix problems within the systems, they could have started with a different accredited organization that has been doing things way worse than Orrin ever did. I have mounds of evidence to prove it. Not hearsay, actual evidence of a high level accredited Crown blatantly breaking quixtar rules. And yet Orrin is accused of breaking the rules.

He hasn’t raided anyone. It just that Quixtar wants to spin and distort the truth to cover up their own unethical behavior.

This isn’t rumor or opinion. I’ve witnessed it for myself and so have thousands of other people.

It’s ashame, because, without the current people in the legal and rules department, Quixtar may have been a great company.

No it seems that the only was to stop this abuse is to have criminal charges brought against individual people within the legal department in Ada. I think when some of these proceedings start coming out in public, people will be amazed at the levels Quixtar’s legal staff stooped to. and they will be highly offended that they were so misled by the company for so long.
nonprofit Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
I find it curious that you chose to launch a personal attack on Orrin Woodward on the Internet. Is this not the same company who was trying to drag anonymous bloggers into court for disparaging remarks against them? Don’t the same rules apply to you? You think you’d have learned how bad this looks in court with your “Just Go Team” post. I’ve been told hurting people hurt others, Is this painful to you? Did the Georgia decision hit a nerve?

Since you brought it up, could you answer us this? What secrets were you and the IBOA board keeping from us that you don’t want made public? I don’t know about others but I’m kind of suspicious of anyone who hides things from me. I’ve noticed from other posts you’ve went to great lengths to keep tool profits a secret too. Why is that? What else don’t you want us to know? Why do you constantly hide these proceedings in secret arbitration? Is the court of public opinion to harsh? Is it true your legal team is inept in the courtroom? Has years of hiding all of your litigation in arbitration dulled their skills and courtroom etiquette? There are so many unanswered questions. You’ve made quite a few claims here, are you prepared to back them up with evidence in court? Last I heard you were using subpoena’s as a fishing expedition. If you don’t have hard facts this looks a lot like liable.

You post has inspired me…..to send another check to Orrin’s cause! I want to see this in a court room. I’d like the court of public opinion to settle this. A jury of peers! What do you say we call 20./20, or any one of those investigative news shows? How about you come out of the arbitration closet and answer all of these questions! Like Churchill said……
“BRING IT”!
CAplatinum Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
I’ve heard a clip of the Team’s conference call (or maybe recorded at a conference) that goes on to say thousands of IBO’s resigned with Woodward and Brady to join their new venture. They even said what the new venture was! It’s based on tools only (DVD, books, audios). I have nothing against running a competing business, just don’t steal the people and stick to the rules.
LiveFreeOrDie Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
A recent court ruling against Quixtar/Amway was passed down in a Georgia court this week past. Perhaps Alticor (or Tex) would like to explain:

According to Judge Barrett’s ruling - “The area covered is so incredibly large that the non-competition clause is “unenforceable on its face….”. In his ruling Judge Barrett also stated, “The scope of geographic coverage of the Rules takes one’s breath away.”

Thus even in arbitration, Quixtar/Amway cannot use the non-compete against the plaintiff IBO’s in that case. Perhaps this becomes precedent, as well as the other cases mentioned in the final ruling of the judge.

For those who want to read:
http://the.q.whistleblower.googlepages.com/GeorgiaCourtRuling.pdf

It’s pretty straight-forward.
Steve in Texas Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Your reference to Orrin as a Mis-Leader is comical. If you want to know who is a leader, look at the number of people following them… If you want to see a Mis-leader… look at the number of people running from them.

Nobody is running from Orrin! I do however wonder what the exact number (obviously in the tens of thousands) of people who have run from Q/A since August 9.

Keep passing out the Kool-Aid!

Here is a suggestion… Meet TEAM in the marketplace and we will let the people decide. It’s the American Way…you do remember that is how you got your name right… AM-Way? Why are you so afraid of Free Enterprise? If Orrin is such a mis-leader would not the TEAM be doomed to fail? So why not pick your fight in the marketplace!

I thought maybe you were scared because you know the truth about Orrin… and his ethical leadership. Then it dawned on me… You wouldn’t recognize truth if it walked up and peed on your leg!

Now I am convinced you are just scared. You run and hide behind non-compete agreements, lawsuits, paid bloggers, unsolicited renewals , nonpayment of bonuses, threats…. shall I go on?

I will personally support Orrin and so many others you have chosen to attack. I am confident that tens of thousands of others will support him as well. HOWEVER in ALL fairness… The IBO defense fund set up to support other IBOs (NOT ORRIN) who have been attacked by Quixtar. Participation in this fund is completely voluntary.

Quixtar has a similar program called the Jay Factor to support their legal battle. Unfortunately for the few remaining Amway IBO’s, the Jay factor is not voluntary.
Big D Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Must we slip futher…from emotional uninteligence… to down right venom. I was “out” of this business the same day that I heard about the terminations of the people I respected.

When I heard about this, Like an independent business owner that cared about my future.. I listened first to what you “Alticor” had to say about all of this… I did not believe you!!!!…

So I naturally said to myself… theres another side to this…

Say whatever you want Alticor, people already know the truth. The price gouging, the name change, the endless failures and churning of IBOs, the non-compete, the subjective and non payment of bonuses, the board members conspiring against competitors in the tools business, the endless legal entrapment of IBOs, the dispargement of honorable people, the company owned private court system, and the lack of effort from the company to provide a product line that is competitively priced. I can think of a lot more..

So you say I’m not supposed even know that there is an opportunity to make money from support materials? Thanks Andy!!! I thought you were interested in my success.

I’m sorry, but the Amway business has become a dirty business. Maybe its time to clean out the mouths of some of the legal department with some of that good soap that you guys make. The soap is still good… I will never buy any more of it.

The thing about Orrin Woodward that you hate so much is that your dealings with him have exposed you for what you really are. Orrin and the rest have really not said much of anything other than making a few historical comparisons… I WISH I could get some information from Orrin and Chris and Billy.. but for some reason.. they have respected the legal system and kept quiet..

The problem now is not Orrin.. Orrin was never the problem…..You had your chance to settle with him. Your persecution of Orrin only exposed how you really felt about the rest of us… being called cattle by your lawyers and refusing to pay some of our friends because they would not go along with you.

I left, I am proud of my decision, and If I am ever asked to reflect on my history with your company since the early 90’s.. nothing will be spoken of except the truth.. .. and you my friends at Alticor with be the ones that have to live with that.
Truth Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Amway Lovers,

Ive never heard of a company stoop so low. The fact you have to do this makes me wonder why.
I believe
1. Your Totally Scared. tons of people out and your business is going down hill rapidly. “Point Proven” by you auto renewing silvers and above free. You changed that so people would stay in cause its free.
2. Your Counsel is from Dictators that need this company to keep their non elected position. Mike Mohr and the dictator roles of the “Non Elected Board Positions”

Companys that run out of FEAR are doomed to fail. I was in Quixtar in 2001 and you had major problems them with leadership and you have major problems now. Im not apart of Team but it is just like you to bully people around and lie about someone or something. I hope the courts do to you what youve done to others.

ps. Hows the Uk going.
curtisgb Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Awesome post.

Anyone needing clarification on the character and values of the people involved at Ada only need to reference this post.
Linda Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
God sees the truth and stands beside Orrin.
Brad Obert Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Josh #20, Since there is no way of knowing what you presume for a fact or not, how about we use facts. I heard nothing from Orrin or anyone else for that matter about Monavie or any other mlm or business or product until it was posted on his blog. There was and still is nothing even on the TEAM site about other mlm’s or anything like that. The “Wal-mart” rumors were obviously just that. So we are naive for looking at facts, and you’re naive for looking at thoery.

White Knight #27, Even if we grant you that Orrin is bad mouthing the corp in the CA lawsuit, have you read any of the Q/A statements? You are an adult and read both and think Orrin’s statements are “bad-mouthing” and the Q/A statements are ?. It appears to me that OW’s are actually true, and the Q/A is simply
trashing what they cannot defend. How about a statement answering some of the claims TEAM makes…..guess not.

If I was trying to build a large IBOship I would be frustrated when prospects read these posts from the corporation.
Big Bob Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
You guys are huge liers. Your mentality reeks of brutal lieing mischief. Alticor’s legal harassment is failing, miserably and utterly. The big ol Qstar pyramid is crumbling and you know it. That’s why you lash out from the corner you’ve backed yourself into. Unbelievable. curtisgb (post 34) hit the nail on the head.
Dwight Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
I agree with everything that Quixtar has done to protect the IBO’s. No one within the business has the right to steal and lure IBO’s from other organizations to join their organizations to increase tool flow to make money from those individuals. This action will put any and every organization at risk for failure. I believe what the Team has done has proven no matter how you might try to disguise what they did, the end result was organizations losing IBO’s that they had worked hard to bring into the business, years of working with those people-regardless of what level they had reached, that upline had an investment in time and effort developing that business and that individual. And if the Team had any ethics they would have never taken from other organizations and they should have used their system to build their teams. The moment they crossed that line of recruiting other IBO’s from other organizations was the beginning of their downfall, not Quixtar.
Kim Podbilski Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
I have to say I’m suprised to see that they let us post these comments of which 95% defend our leader.
Kim Podbilski Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Hi &^%$ this is *&@#%$ have I caught you at a bad time?
NO Great hey I was wondering if you would be interested in joining my AMWAY business?
CLICK……………….
quitesimply Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
I feel for you #38. If I were in your shoes I would feel the same way because your truth is only what you have been told and you believe them all. In the past you could believe them so why question them? The truth is that what you have stated is not true although you are being told that it is. You could have never convinced me in the 32 years that I have been around Amway/Quixtar, that I would have ever left the business but more importantly felt so sad that they had changed the deal. It breaks my heart. We are not happy that all the remaining IBO’s are being negatively affected by all that has happened. We do however feel sorry for those of you who still stand up for it. It is no longer a business opportunity that we and many others can not promote with integrity so we left. If you saw things from the other side…you might too.

Just so you know, the thousands of people who have left Q/A are not followers…following a leader…we are all strong leaders who are following a great servant.

My best to you and may your dreams come true in whatever business you put your time and effort…
Brad Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
I was reticent about adding to the dialogue here. But you have proven yourselves to be without honor or character. Your comments concerning Billy Florence are plain wrong. Period. I have known Billy Florence and have worked with him within the Quixtar business and in other business ventures and I can attest that he is undoubtedly a man of character, honesty, and integrity. I was honored to be associated with the Amway/Quixtar Company for many years…. Now I am completely embarrassed by my association. Where are Doug Devos and Steve Van Andel in this? I cannot possibly believe they being christian men could ever endorse this dribble.
Scott Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
IBO? I Bailed Out? Whats the proplem? You asked for it, take responsibility for your own business and quit finding fault in others. You can learn this in the Team Leadership Training System. Try it you will like it!!! At a fair price as well. Why for a company as good as you, I will triple the price to help you feel more at home.
Eric (AEM) Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 12:23 am
Typically when two parties are having a dispute you can get a feel for who is right by what each says about the other. The party who is throwing the biggest pre-teen type fit is usually wrong. The party who quietly asks for a fair 3rd party to hear out the issue in a civil manner while encouraging people not to disparage the other is normally right.
White Knight Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 12:37 am
I agree with Dwight post #38.

Gosh, ow comes in to speak or one of his cohorts and then next thing you know ow is in the suite with the larger pins and viola they start using his materials. Why plug in IBO’s not in your group? Sigh.

It is a free country. Anyone can leave as long as you are of integrity and feel your word is your bond and follow the rules.

It seems and appears that ow does not want to lead by following the rules.

Why loot?
The minute ow left he also financially hurt his upline and who speaks for them? It only leaves Quixtar to speak for them.
Then when ow and his cohorts loot cross lines who speaks for their upline? It only leaves Quixtar.

So everyone blames Quixtar for protecting the line of sponsorship. I do not blame them and I salute Quixtar for its’ leadership.

Brad #36
I am not sure what you mean by Q/A statements? And I am surprised that everything ow states you feel is true? Maybe at one time ow was speaking the truth but now I am not at all sure. The corporate posts you disagree with too? Okay, it is a free country and maybe you and I might write them differently.

Just the same don’t call this tactic of looting and ignoring a contract and disregarding rules leadership. It is not leadership.

A leader would admit his or her mistakes, pay the price and move on.

Okay to leave but leave others alone and do not try to poison the well on your way out of the business; that is not leadership either.

Being proud of the collateral damage caused by the actions of ow and his hired professionals is not leadership.
Robin Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 1:04 am
This is getting so OLD!!!! First post. Read a little every now and then. Mostly out making a living.

I’m disgusted with the whole thing!!! Hence why I felt like I should post.

I am with TEAM. Not for reasons most non team would think. I would never have stayed in the quixtar business with the name change. Could have cared less what team was doing. I just knew I was done. Yes I had a decent sized business. Not willing to try and build a business with all the negativity of amway name. Don’t bother responding how great it is I wont be on long enough to read your response and really dont care. After reading an amway post, would have left solely for that reason. Totally unnecessary and unprofessional. Cant believe a billion dollar corporation would respond that way. hope the poster was terminated.

Also am disgusted with some of the posts from team people. I have chosen to stay with team because it makes sense to me for my family. The team system has changed the lives of everyone in our family including our son. Worth more than any money, thats for sure. But what disgusts me is the kind of posts deifying ow. Do I think he is an awesome leader? Yes. do i believe in God and Jesus Christ as my Savior? Yes. But I am so sick of the way people post with religion in regards to ow. He is a MAN!!! Please worship only one GOD, the true God. Leave your emotions out of your posts.

Post only facts. Opinions are like, well you know. everyone has them. When I do want to read something on all these blogs I’ve got to weed through pages and pages on bs.

Frankly I wont even go to the FTIBO or whatever its called anymore because it nauseates me. Sick of listening to all the nonsense about how great ow is and God this and God that like he is some God. I think its a shame the team allowed this to happen to a blog about them. Some one should stop it.

As for the people with amway I wish you all the best in your business. I truly feel bad for all the ibos this has hurt on both sides.

As for me my six months is up and I will be doing what ever it is I want. As far as pillaging my downline. NO But remember this business is built on relationships and family. If they ask me whatI am doing and they wish to also. Sorry thats not raiding. I didnt ask them. I dont need to. Last time I checked the world has enough people Im not worried and dont need to solicit them. Cant stop them from joining with me though. Last time I checked its a free country. Guess they will just be signing a waiver stated I didnt go to them so I am not hauled into court.

I think Amway started and has continued unprofessionaly. its a shame.
XIBOX Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 1:32 am
Dwight
Exactly what has Quixtar done to protect you the IBO’s and their business?

Changed their name to Amway?
Kept earned bonuses and claimed they where discretionary?
Not lowered their pricing?
Maybe you could list a few more?

No Team person I know has recruited any IBO into the Team System.
If you or your Organization “lost” IBO’s than you did you really have them in the first place?
You see that is what all the fuss is about Quixtar is unable to Tie the IBO’s to a tree and force them to stay there. We have free will, the choice to go and do what we want.
Or are you of the notion that once you signed someone up they were YOURS to do with what you wanted. I am positive this is Q/A’s thought is it yours?
P.S. Regarding your last sentence, um, what makes you think Team is in a downfall? Just curious because the last time I checked Team is only going uphill and Quixtar is bobsledding downhill.
G-Man Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 1:46 am
When are we going to move on? All of this verbage sounds like a “jilted ex-girl friend,” incapable of letting go. Endless threats, insinuations, slander, and law-suits; for what? Revenge? Why would anyone in their right mind want to “partner” in a business with any of you? It is time to get a life and move on. This is my last visit this site. See ya-all.
Free to flee Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 2:12 am
1st, the IBO Defense Fund is to assist all IBO’s being attacked legally by Quixtar or Amway or Alticor - whoever you are. Since you read the blog you know that, but why let the truth interfere with a great smear campaign.

2nd, we’ve been loyal to A then Q since 1990. We brought you-A/Q/A -huge dollars for years. We did it as a team- with all of the many people that we, with our leaders, spent years loving and caring for. We love them & their families. Our leaders loved all of us into who we are today. They loved us right out of our jobs!!! The minute you terminated them, you may as well have terminated us. You decided that we were gone. Then you told us “Just Go”.

3rd, From the moment we read your email about your plans to shove Amway down our throats, we knew our business was gone. Gone due to your brilliant decisions, not because of Orrin.

4th, It’s so convenient for you to use Orrin and Team as your scapegoat for all of your bad decisions. I’d say you’ve been manipulating things all along to cover your mistakes.

5th, You stole our year end bonus. We earned it fair & square by following the qualifications you laid out.. You followed no protocol, you just didn’t pay us. You are using our money to fund your legal battles attacking our leaders. You can bet we’re going to contribute to their legal fund. We’ve got to at least match what you stole from us, to give them a fighting chance!

6th, No one on the team had to suggest, ask, connive, manipulate, or trick us in any way. We left because of your actions. You need to grow up and face the music! As far as I know, no one on our team needed anyone to help them make their decision to resign, or, not renew. Despite immediate financial loss, which has continued for 6 “no compete” months, we had no doubt what we must do to survive and thrive in the future. We had no doubts where our loyalty should be. Even though you don’t know it, you are only a product supplier, not a leader. We followed the people who have driven the miles, laughed and cried with us, attended the weddings and funerals, and believed in us before we believed in ourselves. They, not you, are leaders.

Thank God for the Team. We retired from our jobs, this was our future. We had no idea you had so much power and conrol over our lives. We would have been left with no hope…..just a crumbling shell of a once great business. Just go Amway, Quixtar, Alticor or whoever you pretend to be.
IBO To Go Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 7:42 am
Josh #20 Says:

“I would contend, although my personal belief, that OW already had MonaVie in line, if things did fall through with Q*. He already had a crack legal team before hand with a “leverage” lawsuit. Even if at the time it was only in theory.”

“There were rumors about it FAR before last August about TEAM leaving, so to think that there was not something in the works, again even if in theory, is very naive on your part.”

The theories, suppositions, rumors and lies that you and your cube-mate, Tex come up with over at Q just make me laugh.
Doug Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 8:03 am
You know it is hard to believe that a corporation that wants to be the best business oppurtunity in North America would personally attack anyone. Makes me wonder if i made the right decision……
IBO To Go Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 8:06 am
Alticor,

Like Cheryl#23, I too would like to thank you for your reminder about the IBO Legal Defense Fund. I too have been remiss in my support until now.

I have now pledged to give my ongoing financial support to the TEAM leaders at ibolegaldefensefund.com who have laid it on the line for our freedom. I encourage all to do the same.
Big D Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 8:08 am
To Dwight:

The Ibos and LOS were never compromised or changed by TEAM. Some Organizations as a whole sought out TEAM and asked to Join. The “other” tool Companies may have lost some people but they were still in “Quixtar” and thier uplines did not lose money from the “quixtar” business until “quixtar” terminated Orrin. The aftermath of this caused lots of losses for everyone, but it WAS Quixtar my friend. If anyone ever joined TEAM or left Quixtar after the terminations it was of thier own free will. The reasons for all of this is that people wanted to be associated with a team that was growing. My team was not growing until I joined TEAM.. that was my choice and I can live with it regardless of the outcome. I probably would have left Quixtar sooner had I not found TEAM.
Tex Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 8:50 am
Clint #3,

1. Alticor is scared? They are winning virtually every court decision. Orrin is publicly begging for money and hallucinating on his blog. It’s clear to me that Orrin “Alfred E. Neuman (What-Me Worry?) Woodward is the one who is scared. Why don’t they just let it go? Because OW caused damage to the business, and his current actions continue to cause damage. What happened to “just go team.”? Quixtar wants TEAM to go, but they also have to follow the rules on their way out. There’s a lot more to this issue than LOS tracking. Get a clue.

2. The immaturity of Alticor management? They’re doing the right thing, rubbing Orrin’s face in his own “mess” until he cries “uncle.” They CAN’T stoop lower than Orrin, he set the “standard” that can’t be exceeded. At least he’s good for something.

3. Alticor wants to enforce their rules, and Orrin & Co. got in the way. How do you KNOW Orrin obeyed the 6 month or 2 year rules? He didn’t have a very good record of following them before, what makes you think he has started now? The contract was extended because Orrin made a BIG mess, and it’s taking longer than normal to clean it up. It takes a while to clean up a mess when you’re using Orrin’s face as a mop.

You have never in your life seen a company act in such a reckless manor? Sure you have, Orrin & Co. It really makes you question Orrin. There is no level of professionalism there and there hasn’t been since all of this started. Stop acting like a little kid Orrin “Alfred E. Neuman” Woodward!
nonprofit Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 8:57 am
Dwight #38
I’m afraid your badly misinformed, I’m not surprised though. You were likely spoon fed your info from the same source as the above post! Every organization that has joined the Team system has approached them. They were tired of stagnant or backward growth in the Quixtar model. Please refer to Halgen’s and Florence’s posts referring to why they decided to join the Team system. They joined Team because Team had a system in place that was efficient and was putting up growth #’s that were unheard of. Those leaders saw a spiraling downward turn in renewals and sponsorship, it was their solution to save a failing business. A little side note, it worked! Those organizations showed renewed growth and began to flourish. I think you can see where their loyalty came from. When the company was approached with lowering the prices to help them with these issues, all they got was we’re working on pricing. The Team actually gave them a working and successful solution. It’s no secret to me why they follow Orrin and Chris! Look at the time lines, numbers don’t lie. You can disparage the “tool scam” all you want, but the success is there in black and white
.
This post isn’t about that. This is a personal attack by a billion dollar company on a single successful individual. They are afraid of the power of unity against their bullying and money. They don’t want the Team legal defense fund to grow. It is totally against their plan to use their resources to outlast this legal action. Think about it! If they are in fact in the right, why would they care how hard Team tries to defend themselves in court? Does our legal system not work? Does right not overcome might in a court of law? Why do they hide behind closed door arbitration? I’m seeing a flailing legal defense trying to poke holes in the Team’s defense by disparaging the unification of the Team. Another side bar….it’s not working! We loathe bully’s! All you’ve done is form a stronger bond between us. The money is flowing into our defense fund.

The Amway/Quixtar people don’t want you to know their arbitration isn’t working in their favor. They fear the Georgia decision will have a ripple effect. The company also knows if England reaches an unfavorable outcome it will have ramifications in these stateside actions. Now the state of Missouri is looking into them. This is not just about Team! It’s a repetitive behavior that is having a sour taste in the mouths legal systems worldwide. Open your eyes people! This is not coincidence.
Tex Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 9:00 am
rdknyvr #4,

Me, too.

Barbara #6,

I must say - you have absolutely left me speechless. How low can Orrin go and how much more pathetic can he become??? After all HE has done and after all the IBO’S HE has hurt with his continued arrogance and actions can he continue this charade as if we were all born yesterday???? Anyone will any sense - common or otherwise, can see the TRUTH IN ALL OF THIS. PEOPLE ARE LEAVING IN DROVES BECAUSE OF ORRIN - AND NOW ORRIN IS PAYING FOR IT!!!!
Tex Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 9:03 am
almost free #7,

Why can’t we all just get along? Because Orrin attacked, and Quixtar is defending themselves. You ask us to JUST GO and now you won’t let us, and that’s because you didn’t follow the rules on your way out. If your business is that good then why fight, because it’s worth fighting over. Because you know the pattern for leaving is set. ATTACK ORRIN!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chuck Lia Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 9:35 am
#38 Dwight:

While I agree with you about the primary issues associated with TEAM, one point needs to be mentioned in TEAM’s defense. Most, if not all, of the other LOAs that joined forces with TEAM initiated the contact that led to the relationship, not TEAM. That is not to say that TEAM didn’t know it would benefit from the additional relationship with a new LOA. So I would say that it would be inaccurate to say TEAM “recruited” other LOAs/IBOs; rather, several other LOAs/IBOs wanted to be affiliated with TEAM.

In addition, even when some LOAs did not join forces with TEAM, after their leadership interacted with TEAM’s leadership (on the IBOAI Board, etc.) they subsequently implemented aspects of TEAM’s program in their IBO training and business previews.

So there is plenty of blame to go around on all sides.
Tex Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Jerad #8,

Here we go again. Let’s just look at the beginning of this post to see how much distortion is coming from the Corp.

*He has abused the legal system by filing multiple, frivolous lawsuits that have been dismissed with prejudice. —- This isn’t an opinion, he clearly broke the rules by going the court route versus into arbitration.

*He has abused business relationships of people he partnered with for more than a decade by repeatedly violating his contract commitments to respect the Line of Sponsorship of others. —- Haven’t you read the termination letter, NONE of which has been refuted by Orrin? He damaged EVERY A/Q IBO’s business, by lying about the business being an illegal pyramid, all while running his own tool scam.

*He has abused his fiduciary responsibilities to his trade association by inducing others to disgorge confidential information and violate court orders.” —- Do you think the IBOAI would file a lawsuit for disclosure of confidential information without any evidence?

Yet the Corp mentions then out of hand as if they have already been accepted as fact, because they are facts.

Then let’s not forget the thouroughly debunked claim that Orrin had a new MLM, which hasn’t been debunked at all.

Shame. Shame on you Orrin. Shame on you too, Jerad.
Barbara Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Dwight #38

Common sense should tell you if life at Q was soooo good no IBO in his right mind would have left. No one can lure anyone anywhere without their permission!! Stop blaming TEAM for all that is wrong with Q.
JimZ Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:15 am
Linda (#35)

“God sees the truth and stands beside Orrin.”

You have GOT to be KIDDING.

Shoud we presume that God is seated at the right hand of Orrin? Since you appear to know the mind of God so well, perhaps you can tell me exactly where Orrin is in the Holy Trinity pecking order. Or perhaps we are now expanding the Triune Godhead to FOUR, so we don’t have to kick out either the Father, Son or Holy Spirit in order to make room for His Holiness Orrin Woodward.

Perhaps the greatest moral failure of the “Kingpins” is their transmutation of a business into a religious crusade. I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with people relying on God for their guidance, inspiration, and success. But I think God deserves a LITTLE more respect than our assumption that we have an exclusive on his favor.

My Bible says that “God is no respector of persons.” I doubt that Orrin has a moral exclusive on God. Whether you care to believe it or not, God desires the best for the Alticor Blog administrator, you, me, Orrin and even the legal team at Alticor.

Your presumption that Orrin has done everything in exact accordance with God’s Will and that his opponents have done so much “out of the will of God” so that God is now choosing sides is a very slippery slope. It is the first step towards de-humanizing those who believe differently than you.

Frankly, both sides have plusses and minuses in their column. But there is one thing I CAN tell you. When I read the Bible it teaches me that God is a “covenant” God. In fact, the Bible talks about swearing “to your own hurt” - meaning that when you make an agreeement, you fulfill it even if it hurts you to do so - otherwise our “contracts” are just conveniences until we choose to toss them aside.

For better or worse, Orrin signed contracts that he has now chosen to violate for a “greater moral good” (so he claims).

I don’t think EITHER side has an exclusive on God, but I do suspect that God isn’t very thrilled with Orrin tossing aside “covenants”. God would never do that.
Tex Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:19 am
fuddman #9,

This blog site is for whatever it needs to address. Your “close family member who is quite high in the ranks of Q” needs to get a clue. If Quixtar doesn’t fight fire with fire and make an example of Orrin “Alfred E. Neuman (What-Me Worry?)” Woodward, this fiasco will be repeated by others. There have been plenty of positives, tell your “close family member who is quite high in the ranks of Q” to stop focusing on the negative. I wish I could have been at that meeting, I would have had some gasoline to throw on the fire. Burn BABY, burn. I’m glad he’s quitting, we don’t need gutless morons working for Quixtar. Orrin has a “nice” veneer, but he is pure evil just below the surface. If he was such a great guy, he would have an open blog and address ALL the issues, instead of acting as a gatekeeper by approving posts to be seen by others. You’re even more predictable, by trying to defend the indefensable.
Steve Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:42 am
I had no plans of supporting the IBO legal defense fund (for ALL IBOs in legal battles, not just Orrin) but now I will be reconsidering the amount I give them.

Also, you will be receiving my resignation letter via fax and postal mail within the week. Your conduct in this matter is extremely childish and I will not be a part of it any longer. Make sure to blame Orrin for one more resignation since you, Quixtar/Amway/Alticor, obviously can not take any blame for your actions. (Since you are not the smartest people, that was sarcasm. I’m resigning BECAUSE of the CORPORATION’S actions.)
Bill Smith Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:49 am
TEX

1. “Alticor is scared? They are winning virtually every court decision”.

You call this winning virtually every court decision?

“In the Superior Court of White County, the Honorable Chief Judge David E. Barrett ruled that the non-competition clause of Quixtar’s contract was “invalid” and will not be subject to any arbitration.
john Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:50 am
IBOAI Trade Secrets: Pathetic retention rate; 3.4% retail sales. And Alticor agrees with the IBOAI that these are trade secrets? Unbelievable! These are numbers that should be told to every prospective IBO. Instead, Amway/QUixtar puts their stamp of approval on the kingpin liars. They know that Britt and Puryear etc. have been spewing lie after lie in order to trap young families, college kids and single moms into buying their silly “proven systems of success” tapes and functions. Alticor, I implore you to stop allowing lives to be destroyed by your kingpin liars.
Brian Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 11:09 am
“Mis-ter Leader” We like Orrin.

I’d expect no less from the blog author of the ridiculous attack on IBOs “Just Go, Team”

We are going. Q, Just let us go.

300 million people in N.America and you are concerned with people following Orrin W.? What are you so concerned about?

The man who is anybody and who does anything is surely going to be criticized, vilified, and misunderstood. This is part of the penalty for greatness – Elbert Hubbard

“When we judge or criticize another person, it says nothing about that person; it merely says something about our own need to be critical.”

Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving. - Dale Carnegie

Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. - Benjamin Franklin
Mike Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 11:23 am
Your position regarding the Georgia case is absurd. I would like to have an Alticor attorney on here stating that your noncompete would ever be enforcable in Georgia. I have litigated many noncompete cases in Georgia, and have NEVER seen one that prohibits a person from competing in the entire US hold up. To educate you: Under Georgia law, you must limit the noncompete in terms of time and duration at the tiem the contract is signed. So, if a person starts out only working in one county, then the noncompete must be limited to that county or else the entire noncompete is void. If they later work in another county, then a new contract must be executed at that time.

Please comment.
john jay franklin Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. - Benjamin Franklin
ThunderSTRUCK Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Thank you Alticor!!!! I’ve considered giving to the defense fund but hadn’t as of yet. Your pathetic attack on this wonderful man has now convinced me to contribute. Once again, YOU are the ones driving others to act, just like you asking TEAM to “just go”. We did, thanks to you. And by the way nobody EVER solicited me to leave Quixtar, your actions dictated it. Well, I am overjoyed to say this is my last day, tomorrow I am free. I wish you the very best, I actually hope you can get your act together and salvage your business. Me? I’m going to keep growing thru leadership development. Bye.
ThunderSTRUCK Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Robin #45

Very good post and I couldn’t agree more. Orrin is wonderful leader and I am proud to say a friend of mine. But, there is only one who has walked this earth that can be called perfect…Jesus. Folks, please, I am sure Orrin apreciates all of the positive feedback, but he would be very uncomfortable being compared to Deity. He is a great leader, but a man.
SoonerIBO Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 11:59 am
IBO To Go #51

I’m sure that Orrin “Panhandler” Woodward appreciates that.

Keep on donating, Flock, keep on donating.

Pathetic.
Mimi Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
I really hate all of this going on. It’s brought discension among friends and families…how can a thing that is sooo good,(TEAM’S new venture) bring so much hurt? For TEAM to proclaim such spirituality, much scripture totally goes against many of their actions. We live in the end times, people are turning against one another for the almighty dollar. How sad.
Joseph W. McGuire Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
I think you people have lost your minds. Does a real leader scare you that bad? Your “illusory and unenforcible rules” (Not my own words) make it patently obvious that you fear competent leadership that steps outside your train of thought. In summary you are pathetic.
P.S. Lots of luck getting elected Dick you’ll need it now that your company has alienated just about everyone. To bad, You may have been a good governor for Michigan.
Joe
jerandi Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Brad

The Morrison Case is very complex and actually has stemmed from as stacking lawsuit that is over 12 yrs old. Don Willson and Randy Haugen worked side by side with the corporation to stop the stacking. Despite that now they say that they were doing the same thing. I know for fact its not true. It is very sad that men like Billy Florence and Don Willson who dedicated there lives to the Altacor cause have been dismissed so easily. Don is not even a member of TEAM as far as we can tell and he served all of us for year on the IBOA.
I would like to know when Altacor is going to throw Kelly Robins out for stacking and ruining the lives of over 8,000 IBO’s. I find it interesting after all of the damage he did he still has an IBO # but you throw Don Willson out who has done nothing wrong but question your product pricing which was part of the job he was elected to do

Sad very
Eric (AEM) Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Can all those that left Quixtar for Team due to Teams pressure on them please say something?

I talked with my turbo 25 on Auguest 10th and he said “business as usual, don’t leave quixtar, don’t do anything any different”. He never said anything different. Still hasn’t. My policy counsel memeber had a meeting a few weeks after the 10th and said basically the same thing. So it seems really odd that people are continueing to assert that Team leaders pressured IBO’s to leave Quixtar, this is far from my experience. So if you were one of the ones that was pressured by Team leadership to leave Quixtar to join Team please let your voice be heard.

And yes I know a woman testified in MI that Doug Stroh told her that her LOS was pretty much going to be gone and it would be good for her to leave Quixtar. To me that sounds more like a helpful upline giving a heads up than anything else.

Interesting to note that on Orrins blog he summerized what is going on, just as with this blog. All of what he says agree’s factually with what Alticor says, only I read his he didn’t seem angry with anybody. Alticor seems pissed. . . why such a big difference?
Wondering Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
When will this ever get better? After all it seems that TEAM is not going to return.

If A/Q/A knows that they will not return, then any further action should be seen to do what?

Does continued discussion only hurt IBOs? Is there a redeeming value in all of this?

How come there is no longer a link from Q to this blog? Nor could I find a link from Q zone to this blog? Does anyone know where it is? Has it disappeared? Is it to contain the same bloggers and prevent the word from spreading?

Just wondering
FORMER IBO Steve Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Well 4 hours later and my first post has yet to be posted. In that post I stated that Q will be receiving my resignation within the week but I decided to get it out today via fax. It should be in your Business & Conduct Rules Dept as I type this post.

Acting like my 3 yr old daughter does not do your company good. I give her a quick spanking when she throughs a tantrum and the only way to do that to Q/A/A is by giving you my resignation. You asked “Go Team Go” and they did. Now with your continued actions we non-Team IBO’s are tired of it and must go too.
Jeremy Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Tex. you never learn do you, Were in the rules does it say if you try to get relief from a bogus contract and the courts say No. the 6mo non-compete will be infinite for you as long as we can come up with BS case to drag you into court again. Q/A is upset, I would be too if the whole world was exposed for the child like behavior that has been under wraps in arbritration(sp) Tex, Tex, Tex why complain about (tool king pins) when it is Q/A that wanted them to opperate that way. Why not go support Exxon Mobile but then complain that the gas stations are (oil) King pins. I dont know what you’ve been reading either? All the court documents I’ve seen, some very recent Q/A arguments are getting thrown out of court. Also the defense fund is for all ibo’s who have had a dispute with the Q/A (money draining)legal team. I wouldnt be knocking it when their thru with you, you’ll be thanking your stars that there is one.
Utah Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Wondering #76,
No, neither the IBOAI blog or opportunityzone blog typically have direct links to this site.

Sometimes they have a direct quote, or perhaps a link in a post, but those sites typically don’t allow hateful comments, so why would they want to “claim” Alticor or Amway blog sites.

Quixtar’s oportunityzone blog, overall has been positive.

Alticor, which the others have to deal with, seems to be the main source of bad blood. Based on that, it would seem the buck stops at Doug and Steve.
Wondering Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Who is paying for the A/Q/A Lawsuits, Counter-Lawsuits and Mediation?
john Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Dear Administrator,
Can you tell us exactly what it means when you say “independent business owner”. If I have an “independent” business and I enlist several people into “my” downline in “my independent” business, but one day I realize that “I” want to move myself and “my” downline from “my independent” business into something else - all of a sudden things change. Now it is Alticor’s downline and Alticor’s business. What in the world is “independent” about the “disrtibutorship” opportunity you sell for a joining fee? The truth as I see it is that there is only one business “Quixtar” and everyone who signs up is absolutely nothing more than a distributor who must follow your microscopic rules or bad things happen - like bonuses withheld, termination and trash talking on the “bathroom walls of society” internet.
Truth Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Hey Tex,
I have a suspicion you are a iboai board member or how do you know all this stuff. Or maybe a board member is telling your the iboai board secrets. Maybe they ought to look into this. Oh wait, quixtar only uses its rules to its advantage. I guess will never know but im betting your a non elected board member that has a big pin and a small amount of people. Cant fake it too long. Do your monthly opens have 5 or 6 people showing up regularly. I would where a shirt Tex that said “Im In Amway do you wnat to join”. And see the response. Probably no response just laughter.
Joe Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
DO you think the readers are stupid enough to believe the propaganda your company releases.Obviuosly you do that is why you have treated the IBO’s the way you have(your property)This will NOT help get back ANY Ibo,they are gone 4 ever!And most have do not have anything good to say about your company.This tactic is not working,get different lawyers to come up with a better approach.Amway’s name is the kiss of death.
Marnie Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Oh my G!! This is beyond ludicrous! Orrin is waging war against Quixtar? Just how many lawsuits did he initiate against you??? ONE! It’s been dismissed, so move on. Then the TEAM filed a request for a restraining order to try to get you to stop interfering with their business.

How many have you launched against Orrin, the TEAM, and others for being associated with the TEAM? Seven, ten, how many? And how many against bloggers who voice their opinions? And what about the subpeonas sent to 62 people to produce every document over four years in your futile attempt to prove your allegations of rule violations?

I have never, ever heard of any company, let alone a multi-billion dollar company, wage such a low-life smear campaign. Keep smearing, folks. At some point, Orrin will be allowed to talk. It is pretty clear that that is what scares you.

Good grief, do you people have NOTHING else to do? Oh yeah, with all the IBOs that left–and more are lining up to leave–I guess you do have too much time on your hands. Go get a hobby, will you?
gone,baby,gone Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
We are not ever coming back, never again would I associate my name with alticor/quixtar/amway! You told us to go and we did. So leave us alone! You are only hurting yourselves more and more everyday, now you even have non-team ibos leaving, way to go you guys are so smart!
Bridgett Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Praise the Lo…er, I mean, praise Orrin!

http://orrin.woodward.youaremighty.com/
mpzildjian Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Nice timing… A last effort at what you do best. 6 months is up guys. Get over it and brace yourself.

“Right on by.. Right on by”

PS. Shouldn’t you be worrying about how to market “Amway” to America again? That’s a bigger challenge than Orrin Woodward.
GirlPower Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
#77 Steve:

I think if anyone deserves a quick spanking it’d be Orrin.
Proud to be a past IBO Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
For those of us that willingly support the IBO defense fund - how are your current employees of Quixtar/Amway paying for your repeated attacks on TEAM?

The major difference is free choice - those of us that support the IBO defense fund are free to contribute or free to not contribute depending on our choice. Those employees (or should we say IBO’s) of Quixtar and Amway have no choice - they just get to pay.

I favor free choice.
Kris M. Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
You are so scared, so weak. This misinformation will come back to bite you.

The IBO legal defense fund is for the silvers and the emeralds that quixway is extorting. Trying to drag platinums into arbitration who can’t fight a multi-billion dollar company legally.

Quixway will not last. The disinformation and vehement you continue to spew will not work.

Just one year ago, Orrin was the darling of Quixtar. His depth building was applauded by the corporation. Quixway speaks with a forked tongue.

It’s really quite pitiful. Non of you can hold a candle to the kind of man Orrin Woodward is.
Ryan B. Hunt Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 12:26 am
Tex, What is your win? Why do you have a dog in the fight?

White Knight - The former IBO’s, including Orrin, who filed the lawsuit, did so because you can’t arbitrate a class action lawsuit. Thus, they broke no rule. 2nd Orrin sat out his six months before mentioning anything about Mona-Vie. Then, respectful of the law, has not expounded on his plans pending a judgment from a Michigan judge, which should be done with on his birthday. How early he made plans to join Mona-Vie is irrelevant. There are no rules about “shopping” other opportunities. There are some question about the trade-secrets of the IBOAI… Not sure what was really secret and what was common knowledge, but other than that some-what gray area, what rules have been broken? Anyone? Oh… and don’t tell me he or anyone else on the Team is “raiding” the LOS. They are leaders. By definition if you are leading, someone is following. When Team leaders walk away, they couldn’t keep people from following if they tried. The Team is following a vision of creating one million leaders. Now that’s compelling. I believe that Q’s own financial predictions are for them to shrink over the next couple of years, and those were done before they hacked the heads off of the leaders of 40% of their North American business. It’s hard to follow a vision of shrinkage.

Now you boys and girls be easy on me. I don’t want to have my feeling hurt And, one more thing before I go… That’s my name. What’s yours?
Ryan B. Hunt Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 12:32 am
Wondering

I’ve got a good mind to post a link to this site from my pro team blog. This blog does more for our case than our own blogs:)
Tex Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 7:03 am
Utah #10,

Orrin has made “some” mistakes? How about HUGE mistakes?

The first question is, who broke the same rules year after year? Who refused to even listen to how to (again) learn how to start following the rules? fix whose mistakes caused the IBOs that did resign, or fail to renew on purpose, to do so. Of course those are just the facts. I have always said it would be a good idea for people to examine the facts and decide for themselves.

I have NEVER been contacted by any of what is left of any LOS after going off standing order tools a couple of years ago. If they didn’t contact me, then why would I even think about considering them anything except lying cowardly “kingpins” after over 15 years? Can you say the actions of the lying cowardly “kingpins”? I heard of Orrin several years ago, he even came to at least one of our major functions.

Did Orrin cause the situation in the UK or India, or the stagnation of sales in the US prior to August 2007? —- Not directly, but by being just another lying cowardly “kingpin”, he fell right in line with the others.

Did Orrin cause Alticor decide to rename Quixtar to Amway without the backing of the North American field? —- I doubt it. I consider this a good change, and doubt Orrin could be held responsible for a good change.

I saw this as a sign that the IBOAI didn’t have real say anymore. I had thought, and still do think, that Q/A can’t change the plan or rules without the IBOAI’s approval. —- I thought the IBOAI had more of a say than they do as well. I’m glad they don’t, why would you want a bunch of lying cowardly “kingpins” in charge? Can’t you read? The rules CLEARLY state the IBOAI has approval authority ONLY for arbitration changes.

Since I have been purchasing Q/A products, and have attempted to retail products, I have made more money in other areas of my life from what I have learned from the systems of books, tapes/CD’s, and meetings. It hasn’t just been the money. —- This makes no sense. You said you made more money in other areas in your life from what you learned from the system, but it isn’t just about the money.

I didn’t sign up with Amway for just the money. —- Neither did I, I also signed up for the time and security the money would provide. I also liked the people, but don’t you think the main reason to do a business should be for the money? Just like signing up for a team is to become more involved with a sport, or joining a church to become more involved with God?

I have felt the last 7 months that Altior/Quixtar/Amway has left the principles that I have defended for so long. —- Like what?

This last post leads me to believe in Q/A more. I haven’t had to go to Orrin for that information, Q/A has provided it.

If this legal defense fund is just for Orrin, which is what you are saying, I would be surprised. I thought it was for all the others Q/A was going after. —- SURPRISE!!! The money is for Orrin, and all the others he has misled down his path to destruction.
Tex Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 7:15 am
quitesimply #11,

That must be good stuff you’re smoking. Orrin’s got you hook, line, and sinker.

Anon #12,

Maybe to buy a bigger one?

rdknyvr #14,

They aren’t allowed to sell the magic juice until Orrin’s 6 months plus at least 45 days is up. I can see Orrin now, “Don’t sign up, wait for me, I’m your leader!” This is probably the source of the legal action against Mona Vie, Quixtar wants to find out if/when Orrin signed up, or if he has his spot “reserved”, so others can sign up now and he can be their upline later. Most of his people are broke and the few that can hold their nose and believe this is Orrin’s first step to his “Walmart on the Internet Solution”, can’t wait for him to be their upline, they have bills to pay. Meanwhile, Orrin is flying back and forth between his various houses, eating lunch with ministers he hopes will make him look better, writing ridiculous stories about how he is like our Founding Fathers, etc.
Tex Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 7:22 am
john #15,

I suggest you read the entire Orrin California lawsuit. There was MUCH more than the issues you noted. However, I agree with the rest of your post.

Clint #16,

You’ll also find Mona Vie won’t say how much acai juice is in their drink. There have been hundreds, if not thousands, of these types of companies come and go over the decades. Mona Vie rose faster because of the internet, and they will probably fall faster because of the internet.

Jerad #17,

Yes, just go to Orrin’s blog.
DaveC Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 7:23 am
I, as a former IBO, will say this just once, knowing full well that it will have no effect on you. However the truth must be said and you cannot change it. You at Alticor/Amway/Quixtar or whatever you are calling yourselves these days are totally beneath contempt. Your are not worthy to lick Orrin Woodward’s boots, much unlace them. I am not claiming godhood or anything like it for Orrin, but I will say he is a man of integrity, which those at Alticor/Amway/Quixtar are definitely not. Time and the truth will definitely prove who is right and it is definitely not Alticor/Amway/Quixtar.
DaveC
Jeffrey Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 7:23 am
There is a real simple solution to all of this. Get rid of the tool and function systems so that unethical people will not be able to take advantage of those in their group in the name of “training.” Things like this is another reason why the Customer Volume Rule needs to apply to EVERYBODY, all the way up to Crown Ambassador 60 FAA Points. When some of these Diamonds and Crowns find out that they have to get out of their ivory tower and have to go retail, it will send many of them packing. This is a retail sales business with the ability to be your own best customer and having the ability to expand by sponsoring others who do the same. It is not a sponsoring and self-use business with the ability to build an illegal pyramid from motivational materials that cannot be marketed to an end retail customer. To say so is a gross distortion of the Sales and Marketing Plan. The systems are what has caused nearly all the problems this company has, including in the UK. People get dependent on a system that does not work, so consequently, they don’t make any money. That’s what this whole Woodward things is about–his big income from his tool and function business that was a distortion of the Sales and Marketing plan. Let him go–goodbye and good night.
Tex Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 8:18 am
kjteam #18,

Why should “corporate communications” have to tell their name(s)? Make you nervous? How could Orrin get the attention he craves if he didn’t use his name? Are you high?

The problem is Orrin didn’t want to wait 6 months, so he filed a lawsuit that has now backfired on him, resulting in an at least 45 day extension to his 6 months. I think it should continue until he makes a public apology and promises to never disparage A/Q again. You have always been free to pursue another networking opportunity after 6 months. What’s your point?

Oh yeah, they’re shaking in their little elfin’ boots, as Orrin (Alfred E. Neuman (What-Me Worry?) Woodward publicly begs for money. By the way, it’s Dateline NBC, ABC has 20/20. Just didn’t want to have any “half-truths” floating around.

Uh oh, you agree with me on the tool issue? If you had been paying attention, I have also been critical of A/Q regarding the tool scam, so you shouldn’t be confused. What do you mean by, “I don’t agree with you [Tex] on the making money part, or that fact that the information is not needed,, but that “control” issue that was forced upon IBO’s that did not agree with tools.?”

We were called communists if we didn’t agree. —- If you didn’t agree to what?

This starts from Rich Devos, down to Dexter Yeager, and so forth. —- You need to review Rich’s “Directly Speaking” recordings again.

However, Quixtar/Amway were very much on board with this. It was very profitable for both at the expense of the rank and file downline. —- I agree with this part.

Board members sit behind closed doors thinking of ways to “Spin” high prices, to “Spin” tools, to use the very loayalty created in their downline as a way of manipulating and controling. So now we need to be also controlled by Quixtar lawyers. —- No, we need to put the lying cowardly “kingpins” out of business, then take a look at product pricing.

I can take some action though. I think I will take the names off of the Quixtar’s LOS, that they built, (this is sarcasim) and put it to a petition of my congresional leaders calling for an investigation of harasssment of myself, my downline and my leaders. I will print off blogs sponsered by Alticor communications and show to my congressman the unnecessary harrasment by corporate lawyers.
It is an election year. —- Go for it.

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