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March 10th, 2008 @ 1:00 pm ET…

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Buy ativan c.o.d., Terminated IBO Orrin Woodward’s recent decision to ask for contributions to his “legal defense fund” was such a low point that we cannot let it pass without comment.

Since his termination for unacceptable business practices last August, Mr. Woodward has done nothing but confirm, buy ativan without prescription, repeatedly, our decision to let him go. Cheapest ativan online, We think that any objective person viewing the record would agree that:

He has abused the legal system by filing multiple, frivolous lawsuits that have been dismissed with prejudice.

He has abused business relationships of people he partnered with for more than a decade by repeatedly violating his contract commitments to respect the Line of Sponsorship of others.

He has abused his fiduciary responsibilities to his trade association by inducing others to disgorge confidential information and violate court orders.

Now, true enough: in response to those abuses, we threw him out of the company, the IBOAI threw him out of their boardroom, and judges threw his cases out of court, buy ativan c.o.d..

So why drag our dispute back out into the light, Kentucky KY Ky. .

Because we believe that Mr. Woodward now is using distortions and untruths to justify bad ethical decisions he made – and attempting to get others to pay for his own ill-conceived lawsuits and mistakes. Texas TX Tex. , He is putting his downlines at legal risk without telling them. Buy ativan c.o.d., And he is attempting to raid Quixtar organizations, in further violation of his contract.

We can’t tell people how to react to these behaviors, other than to advise our business owners to contact Rules or Sales immediately if there are approaches made to your groups.

But in the face of a new round of misrepresentations from Mr, order ativan online. Woodward, we can – yet again –set the record straight. Ordering ativan overnight delivery, So we will.

Mis-leader, in court

The original dispute: We terminated Mr, buy ativan c.o.d.. Woodward in August 2007 after he repeatedly refused to clean up his abusive business practices. Well before his disciplinary meeting approached, Mr, comprare ativan. Woodward had hired a big-ticket law firm and ordered them to draft a federal lawsuit. He then filed that lawsuit within hours of his termination. Buy ativan c.o.d., Mr. Virginia VA Va. , Woodward claims filing a lawsuit accusing us of operating an illegal pyramid was a negotiating tactic, part of a spiritually motivated attempt to reconcile our differences. It would be more accurate to say it was a premeditated attack on our business model, designed to drive every IBO in the US out of business and into the arms of a new venture he was planning, cheap ativan.

Mr. Woodward and his legal team then coordinated an astonishing blitz of more than one dozen lawsuits against our company filed across the country. The timing and language of the suits were nearly identical, Mr, buy ativan c.o.d.. Farmacia ativan baratos, Woodward’s associates seemed to know instantly about all of them, and the same attorneys seemed to showed up in case after case.

Mr. Woodward claims the blitz was a spontaneous, pharmacy ativan, grass-roots uprising. How he can say that in the face of all evidence to the contrary is beyond belief. Buy ativan c.o.d., We’re sure his behind-the-scenes communications tell a very different story. αγοράσετε ativan έκπτωση, And Mr. Woodward fueled his litigation attack with confidential documents belonging to the IBOAI, a trade association where Mr. Woodward had been a board member, Washington WA Wash. . Mr. Woodward’s associates stonewalled court orders to return the documents, which did not belong to them, and which they had sworn – twice, buy ativan c.o.d.. – to keep confidential. Buy ativan online cheap, Mr. Woodward claims he had nothing to do with the documents. The fact is, it seems obvious his lawyers used those purloined documents to write their lawsuits, cheap ativan tablets. Buy ativan c.o.d., In fact, a judge has now held Woodward associate Billy Florence in contempt of court for violating a court order related to those documents.

The result: Mr. Woodward’s federal lawsuit was dismissed with prejudice. Order ativan online, Most of the spam lawsuits have been dismissed or evaporated. (And a recent Georgia legal document circulating online was never entered. Therefore it does not carry legal force – a fact Mr, buy ativan c.o.d.. Woodward’s associates, unsurprisingly, lowest price ativan, failed to point out.) Instead, courts have ordered Mr. Ativan online stores, Woodward and his associates to abide by their contacts and arbitrate. Mr. Florence has defied a court of law. Buy ativan c.o.d., Mr. Woodward’s strategy of legal harassment and attack is failing, buy ativan online, miserably and utterly.

Mr. παραγγείλετε online ativan, Woodward is a businessman. He knows what contracts mean and why he signs them. He could have honored his contract, followed the rules that govern moving to a competitive business, buy ativan c.o.d.. But he chose not to play by the rules, chose to initiate this massive legal fight, buy ativan without prescription, chose to jeopardize the businesses of thousands of IBOs.

Mr. Arkansas AR Ark. , Woodward could still choose to pay for the fights he picked. To watch him leave his money in the bank – and ask others with less to foot the bill for his poor decisions – well, call it what you want, but just don’t call it “leadership.”

Mis-leader, Illinois IL Ill. , in the field

And a final thought: When we choose to fight, we choose to fight to protect the businesses that Quixtar and our IBOs have built. Buy ativan c.o.d., But when Mr. Billig ativan apotek, Woodward and his associates encouraged mass resignations from our company, they did so knowing they would devastate the businesses of a number of Quixtar business owners who refused to be bullied into following him.

When Mr. Woodward encouraged those resignations, kopen goedkope ativan, he knew some those who did follow him would lose income when they left Quixtar, and that he had no way to replace that income for them. But that did not stop him from encouraging those same people to spend hundreds of dollars replacing his lost income at rallies in Louisville and St. Louis, buy ativan c.o.d..

When Mr. Woodward encouraged people to follow him to a business with “Wal-Mart pricing”… and then instead abruptly threw in his lot with a company that offers only a handful of ultra-premium priced products… he knew he would lose more of the people who followed him once and for all.

And when Mr. Woodward permits forays into our sales groups, seeking to split more people away, he knows that he is encouraging people to break rules and court orders and put themselves at risk. Buy ativan c.o.d., Worse yet, he does so knowing he’s leading people down a path of promises that lead to disappointment.

Mr. Woodward would no doubt find some historical figure to justify his actions.

But we cannot.

Because when we look at Mr. Woodward’s actions over the past six months, all we see is a manipulative person, abusing the principles of values-driven leadership that our business tries to teach. Put plainly, his recent actions are enough to make all of us who care about helping people build businesses more committed than ever to protecting IBOs from this kind of malicious manipulation.

Filed by: Corporate Communications

Posted in: Alticor, Quixtar

280 Responses to “Buy Ativan C.o.d.”

JimZ Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Well, the problem, you see is that you are mere mortals and you are trying to analyze the unfathonable wisdom of a god. Orrin is no mere mortal. He is Winston Churchill, Jesus, Buddha, Mahatma Ghandi and Socrates all rolled into one person. I doubt the world will ever see a god quite like him - at least that’s what he keeps telling us.

He also is very humble, and when he tells us of his god-like wisdom and capabilities beyond any normal human being, he not only does so with genius, but also with great humility.

Now many will argue that many a demagogue and many a manipulator has come and gone, and each one makes similar claims so that we mere mortals are not in a position to question them.

But Orrin is different than these manipulative shysters. I can’t tell you exactly HOW he is different, I can only tell you that I feel warm when I think about him. My doctor has offered a few other explanations for that warmth (which sometimes is accompanied by dampness as well), but deep down inside I know the real reason is that Orrin is a modern day George Washington….uhh, without the wig or wooden teeth of course.

So why should he pay the freight on this incredibly well thought out plan of removing a massive number of IBO’s from Quixtar?

I know that on the surface it looks like he’s a hypocrite and that he said he’d “go Wal-Mart” but instead he’s going 5th avenue. But you’re really just not understanding the genius that is Orrin.

You see, if he tried to create a WalMart type business that’s just what you would be EXPECTING him to do - and he’d lose the element of surprise.

So…now follow me on this…as a master tactician he is going to go in the OPPOSITE dorection because that’s JUST what you won’t expect him to do. THEN, when he’s caught you all off guard and has started executing his brilliant plan he will……um….he’ll do something ELSE you aren’t expecting.

We all just sit back with our mouths open as we try to contemplate that wonder that is Orrin.
Former Ohio IBO Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
The only I can even begin to try to explain this continued baseless and unwarranted attack on Orrin Woodward is a quote I read not too long by Oliver Wendall Holmes:

“Controversy equalizes fools and wise men - and fools know it.”

It is obvious the fools at Corporate legal know it!
Clint Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
These posts illustrate a few key things:
1. Alticor is scared. Why don’t they just let it go? What happened to “just go team.” Let them go already. They had their own way of tracking LOS, so it’s not just Quixtar’s property. Drop it already. Keep in mind that LOS is typically made up of friends/family… of course entire lines are going to drop around the same time. The business relies on building relationships.

2. The immaturity of Alticor management. These tactics are nothing better. They’re actually stooping to a level lower than Orrin even began to. The arguments presented are referred to as a red herring fallacy. Instead of arguing the true points, they’re trying to attack the person presenting them. Poor job even at that. Go back to Orrin’s blog and read his story about all of this. You won’t find a single personal insult. Why won’t this blog and the company just answer some of the questions or just drop it all together??

3. Alticor wants to play on a double edged sword. Orrin obeyed the 6 month non-compete…let him go. Why is it getting extended? Honor your end of the contract.

I have never in my life seen a company act in such a reckless manor. It really makes you question the company. There is no level of professionalism here and there hasn’t been since all of this started. Stop acting like a little kid alticor!
rdknyvr Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Have to say that I fully agree with Corporate Communication’s post above. Keep up the good work.
Tex Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
JimZ #1,

That was good. With what Orrin and the others have done, Quixtar should stop nothing short of emptying them of every penny they possibly can, and requiring them to make a permanent and public apology for his actions.

What’s amazing about his blog, complete with historical references, is his material looks good on the surface. But alas, he is just another lying cowardly “kingpin”, except he couldn’t just shut up and keep collecting the tool scam money.

Former Ohio IBO #2,

The problem with Mr. Holmes quote is there is controversy only in YOUR mind. I know the facts, and there is no controversy when it comes to Orrin and Co.
Barbara Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
I must say - you have absolutely left me speechless. How low can you go and how much more pathetic can you become??? After all YOU have done and after all the IBO’S YOU have hurt with your continued arrogance and actions can you continue this charade as if we were all born yesterday???? Anyone will any sense - common or otherwise, can see the TRUTH IN ALL OF THIS. PEOPLE ARE LEAVING IN DROVES BECAUSE OF YOU - NOT ORRIN!!!!
almost free Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Why can’t we all just get along? You ask us to JUST GO and now you won’t let us. If your business is that good then why fight. Because you know the pattern for leaving is set. FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jerad Smith Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Here we go again. Let’s just look at the beginning of this post to see how much distortion is coming from the Corp.

“We think that any objective person viewing the record would agree that:

*He has abused the legal system by filing multiple, frivolous lawsuits that have been dismissed with prejudice.

*He has abused business relationships of people he partnered with for more than a decade by repeatedly violating his contract commitments to respect the Line of Sponsorship of others.

*He has abused his fiduciary responsibilities to his trade association by inducing others to disgorge confidential information and violate court orders.”

The first bullet point is an opinion.

The second has never even been shown through evidence. Much less proven.

The third has also not been shown to be accurate.

Yet the Corp mentions then out of hand as if they have already been accepted as fact.

Then let’s not forget the thouroughly debunked claim that Orrin had a new MLM.

Shame.
fuddman Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
This blog site is for negative only and after spending some time with a close family member who is quite high in the ranks of Q he siad exactly that. He said that the last 6 months has been nothing but Orrin this TEAM that no positive except very few things. He said at one of the high meetings it was just a bashing of what Orrin and TEAM are doing their was no biz talk just bashing and for that he is now quiting your great JOB. If you ever checked out Orrins blog their is never a negative message he is always positive and gives great life advice for this he is a great person we all have the foundation built to POSITIVLY change ppls life (sorry about the typos)I only checked this blog because i knew in the next days or weeks you all woould have a bashing comment and by god it was a hit one for one how predictable!
Utah Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
While I would agree that Orrin has made some mistakes, so has Alticor/Quixtar/Amway.

The first question is, whose mistakes caused the IBOs that did resign, or fail to renew on purpose, to do so. I think you will find the majority left because of the mistakes and change of direction of Q/A, not Orrin. Of course that is just my opinion. I have always said it would be a good idea for people to decide for themselves.

I have NEVER been contacted by any of what is left of any LOS to leave Quixtar. If they didn’t ask, then why would I even think about leaving Q/A after over 16 years? Can you say the actions of Q/A? I hadn’t even heard of Orrin until the last couple of years.

Did Orrin cause the situation in the UK or India, or the stagnation of sales in the US prior to August 2007 ?

Did Orrin cause Alticor decide to rename Quixtar to Amway without the backing of the North American field? I saw this as a sign that the IBOAI didn’t have real say anymore. I had thought, and still do think, that Q/A can’t change the plan or rules without the IBOAI’s approval.

Since I have been purchasing Q/A products, and have attempted to retail products, I have made more money in other areas of my life from what I have learned from the systems of books, tapes/CD’s, and meetings. It hasn’t just been the money.

I didn’t sign up with Amway for just the money.

I have felt the last 7 months that Altior/Quixtar/Amway has left the principles that I have defended for so long. This last post doesn’t lead me to believe in Q/A more. I haven’t had to go to Orrin for that information, Q/A has provided it.

If this legal defense fund is just for Orrin, which is what you are saying, I would be surprised. I thought it was for all the others Q/A was going after.
quitesimply Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Dearest MDI… A wise man once told me and many others a quote which I believed this leader believed.

If I were still in Quixtar, I would believe these things said about Orrin and the other leaders that resigned/ were terminated (it happend at the same time so it is a matter of perspective) To all who read these lies and believe them…PLEASE understand that these lies are not coming from people who you would normally listen to, they are coroportate lawyers who are paid to defend thier coroporation even if it means lying.

Having been gone now for almost my 6 months now, things are so much clearer. This would seem offensive to you who are living in East Berlin but the propaganda you have been told about what is on the other side of the wall is NOT TRUE!!! Thier system of econonomics is not a success and they will shoot you if you try to see what else is out there. To S and M who I will always love and respect…WITH ALL DUE RESPECT…

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
- Samuel Adams, August 1, 1776 at the Philadelphia State House

For the sake of your children, grand-children and all that follow you. Choose liberty

As far as Orrin and the other leaders, “People of Integrity expect to be believed and when they are not, they let time prove them right”
Anon Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
If everything is going so well, why would Mr. Devos have his $22 Million Yacht, “Enterprise 5” for sale? Why would he be selling his toys?
Josh Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Jerad Smith #8,

Uhh he did have a new MLM. Shame on you.

Second, just because the corp wants to speak, even if it is opinion or fact, are they not allowed to do so? They state this as fact, because it is what they perceived to happen, and potentially know FAR more about the case than you or I.

Do you write to Orrin at his blog and say the same thing? Oh wait, he only lets those posts that agree with him through his filter. (Believe me I have tried on multiple occasions to get post there).

Orrin continues to run his mouth almost incessantly, while asking for handouts like some pauper on the street.

I tell you what, if OW was my downline and this was happening, he would be in court with me until the day he dies. Remember is hurting somebody’s business. Indirectly it has hurt all our businesses.
rdknyvr Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Anon, maybe it’s because he has a faster and better yacht called ‘Windjammer.’

With all the time you ‘Orrinites’ have to sit here and throw stones it’s obvious that you’re not out selling much of his new ‘magic juice!’
john Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
It is beyond amazing that you call what Woodward shared re the IBOAI “trade secrets”. These so called “trade secrets” are no such thing. They are absolute facts that should be shared upfront with every single prospective IBO. A pathetic retention rate should not be hidden while the boldface lie that this is “the best business opportunity in the world” is proclaimed by these so-called kingpins. I am not a Woodward fan and actually place him in the exact same catagory as Puryear, Britt, etc. Just like the unanomous decision by the “ENTIRE” IBOAI to vote no confidence in your name change - and then they come out now and act as if they think it is the greatest thing in the world. An ounce of integrity would build your business infinitely more than the mountain of deceit that you allow to be promulgated by your kingpins.
Clint Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
rdknyvr #14

I encourage you to look back through the comments and the post. You might be shocked to see who is actually throwing the stones. And many of us can’t quite go selling the “magic juice” yet because we are honoring our 6 month non compete contracts. I would also encourage you to look up more on MonaVie. I think you’ll be surprised to see that they’ve achieved as much in 3 years that it has taken amway/quixtar to do in 50. Seems to me that I’d rather be selling something that has nearly 100% positive on the internet versus something that has nearly 100% negative on the internet.
Jerad Smith Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Josh #13,
So, what was this MLM? Where can I get any info on it?
kjteam Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Does “corporate communications” have a name? Did you all huddle in a corner and write this like thiefin’ elves. Put your name to the blog. I would like you to observe that Orrin Woodward put his name to the blog. Now who are you again?

The truth is, that Orrin has done something that I only wish I was in a position to do. This is our fight not just Orrin’s. I want to be free to pursue what ever capitilistic endeaver I wish after my 6 months is up.

You corporate smugs are so scared up there right now that you resort to half truths and spin to make your story plausible. I guess you did learn from NBC’S 20/20.

I do agree in part with Tex on part of the tool issue,Although Tex, your one sided attacks against Diamonds and not Quixtar is confusing. I don’t agree with you on the making money part, or that fact that the information is not needed,, but that “control” issue that was forced upon IBO’s that did not agree with tools. We were called communists if we didn’t agree. This starts from Rich Devos, down to Dexter Yeager, and so forth. However, Quixtar/Amway were very much on board with this. It was very profitable for both at the expense of the rank and file downline. Board members sit behind closed doors thinking of ways to “Spin” high prices, to “Spin” tools, to use the very loayalty created in their downline as a way of manipulating and controling. So now we need to be also controlled by Quixtar lawyers.

I can take some action though. I think I will take the names off of the Quixtar’s LOS, that they built, (this is sarcasim) and put it to a petition of my congresional leaders calling for an investigation of harasssment of myself, my downline and my leaders. I will print off blogs sponsered by Alticor communications and show to my congressman the unnecessary harrasment by corporate lawyers.
It is an election year.
Brad Obert Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
No response anywhere to the “auto” renews the corp “allegedly” has done. Unless it’s a forgery I did read what appeared to be a pdf file containing text from a Judge talking about the Quixtar Morrison case. Is this pdf a fraud? The top of this page says Docket #06-20138 and appears to have chronological events about the Morrison case for approx 2 years.

And the GA court document I read addresses the clause. Are these documents frauds?
Josh Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Jerad Smith,

I would contend, although my personal belief, that OW already had MonaVie in line, if things did fall through with Q*. He already had a crack legal team before hand with a “leverage” lawsuit. Even if at the time it was only in theory.

There were rumors about it FAR before last August about TEAM leaving, so to think that there was not something in the works, again even if in theory, is very naive on your part.
quitesimply Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
rdknyvr…just wait to see how much juice moves after we have all sat out our 6 months…yes…we are following the rules as our leaders suggest…you ain’t seen nothing yet!
George Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
HAHAHHAH

It is always sad to see stuff like this.

The attacks have come to be common. On one side we are told to leave, but you feel you have to chase us and as posted here…Chase till the end of time.

Yeah, I guess Alticor is right, they are the company of choice, they just forgot to add the or else clause….

Standard statement “let time prove us right”
Cheryl Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Thank you Alticore- I have wanted to support the legal defense fund, but just haven’t taken the time to do so. It is amazing that the only negative I ever hear is from you and your supporters. Interesting, you say, he is doing all the negative talk however since this dispute all we hear is negative from you. One reason that my belief in Orrin and Team has grown, is because they have walked the walk on holding the line. They don’t slam you and they have waited their six months. After all you are the ones that told team to leave. Too bad, that you guys can’t learn by watching people of integrity and character. True Leadership has been exemplified by Orrin. Because of this last slamming article you have been a catalyst for me to donate. I bet I am not the only one that decides it is time to support all us former IBO’s and current ones.
The Closer Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
You know what they say, all it takes to have an opinion is a mouth. This site is such a bunch of bull filled with untruths. I just hope that the people who don’t know the truth already, go and find the truth and not believe this just because it’s on the net…..

All I can say is you better know who you’re following and what is it they want for you!

As quoted in Billy Madison “We all feel more dumb for reading this blog!!”
Bill Smith Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Leaders take responsibility and find solutions while losers point fingers and place blame.

What position has Mis-leader taken?

I would rather hear you comment on;

“In the Superior Court of White County, the Honorable Chief Judge David E. Barrett ruled that the non-competition clause of Quixtar’s contract was “invalid” and will not be subject to any arbitration.

and

“Amway was officially sent packing from the United States 5th Circuit Court of Appeals. Amway, after having their arbitration clause declared “illusory” and “unenforceable,” in the Morrison v Amway case, filed a petition on 2/20/08 requesting a rehearing on the matter. That request was denied today” (March 6th, 2008).
Utah Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
#18 kteam,
As far I know, Corporate Communications, represents Alicor, and therefore Doug D. and Steve V. I have wondered if one of them has written some of the posts. It is also known as Media Info.

The last I saw in print, Rob Zeiger was director of corporate communications for Alticor. Since he got that position in 2004, If he was behind the Go Team Go blog posts, I would have thought he would have been given an other position. That is why I think this is backed by Doug and Steve..

If anyone at Media Info wants to comment..
White Knight Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Amazing, This entire event started when ow and his cohorts stepped outside the “rules” and broke their contract with Quixtar with the CA filing. This filing also had many affidavits which takes a long time to not only write the complaint but obtain the affidavits.

Hello . . . ow and his cohorts were attending meetings of the IBOAI and being paid for airfares, lodging and per diem while prepaing a lawsuit? The lawsuit was 47 pages itself. The complaint could have been 4 or 5 pages. It was longer not for the rule of law but for an opportunity to spill silly unnecessary and immature folly.

The act of filing was wrong and ow along with his cohorts should publicly say so. They all signed a contract and many served on the IBOAI Board so they knew the facts. In fact ow and his cohorts deplored others publicly who previously did the same thing.

The CA case has been dismissed and now moves forward according to the contract as it should have in the beginning in mediation/arbitration.

That single action was going to cost ow money win or lose. Now he is asking for money because he lost? What if he was successful? It would still have cost him money and he would still be “asking” others for money about an issue he started?

Amazing.

When ow was terminated he should have rejoiced and followed his contract for wrongful action. He did not.

Who paid for the attorneys ow?
Who hired a firm to write letters to be placed on the web for the ow cause?
Who hired Chris DeWitt who works for the MI Democratic party to work as a Team spokesperson?

Amazing.

C’mon ow and cohorts just follow your contract and stop all of the bs.

Leave within the rules like those who left before you.

Oh and ow stop bad mouthing the corporation as you did in the CA filing. It brought you a nice liveihood and platform.

Too bad you (ow) could not simply follow the rules and the display in GR, MI with everyone outside and inside the courtroom was just more you. I guess it was always about you.

Call it what you want but don’t call it leadership.
John Doe Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
After the famous “Just Go, Team” article, I didn’t think Quixtar Legal could stoop any lower. But I now see there’s no limite to how pathetic and unethical they are willing to stoop.

If Quixtar was seriously wanting to fix problems within the systems, they could have started with a different accredited organization that has been doing things way worse than Orrin ever did. I have mounds of evidence to prove it. Not hearsay, actual evidence of a high level accredited Crown blatantly breaking quixtar rules. And yet Orrin is accused of breaking the rules.

He hasn’t raided anyone. It just that Quixtar wants to spin and distort the truth to cover up their own unethical behavior.

This isn’t rumor or opinion. I’ve witnessed it for myself and so have thousands of other people.

It’s ashame, because, without the current people in the legal and rules department, Quixtar may have been a great company.

No it seems that the only was to stop this abuse is to have criminal charges brought against individual people within the legal department in Ada. I think when some of these proceedings start coming out in public, people will be amazed at the levels Quixtar’s legal staff stooped to. and they will be highly offended that they were so misled by the company for so long.
nonprofit Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
I find it curious that you chose to launch a personal attack on Orrin Woodward on the Internet. Is this not the same company who was trying to drag anonymous bloggers into court for disparaging remarks against them? Don’t the same rules apply to you? You think you’d have learned how bad this looks in court with your “Just Go Team” post. I’ve been told hurting people hurt others, Is this painful to you? Did the Georgia decision hit a nerve?

Since you brought it up, could you answer us this? What secrets were you and the IBOA board keeping from us that you don’t want made public? I don’t know about others but I’m kind of suspicious of anyone who hides things from me. I’ve noticed from other posts you’ve went to great lengths to keep tool profits a secret too. Why is that? What else don’t you want us to know? Why do you constantly hide these proceedings in secret arbitration? Is the court of public opinion to harsh? Is it true your legal team is inept in the courtroom? Has years of hiding all of your litigation in arbitration dulled their skills and courtroom etiquette? There are so many unanswered questions. You’ve made quite a few claims here, are you prepared to back them up with evidence in court? Last I heard you were using subpoena’s as a fishing expedition. If you don’t have hard facts this looks a lot like liable.

You post has inspired me…..to send another check to Orrin’s cause! I want to see this in a court room. I’d like the court of public opinion to settle this. A jury of peers! What do you say we call 20./20, or any one of those investigative news shows? How about you come out of the arbitration closet and answer all of these questions! Like Churchill said……
“BRING IT”!
CAplatinum Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
I’ve heard a clip of the Team’s conference call (or maybe recorded at a conference) that goes on to say thousands of IBO’s resigned with Woodward and Brady to join their new venture. They even said what the new venture was! It’s based on tools only (DVD, books, audios). I have nothing against running a competing business, just don’t steal the people and stick to the rules.
LiveFreeOrDie Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
A recent court ruling against Quixtar/Amway was passed down in a Georgia court this week past. Perhaps Alticor (or Tex) would like to explain:

According to Judge Barrett’s ruling - “The area covered is so incredibly large that the non-competition clause is “unenforceable on its face….”. In his ruling Judge Barrett also stated, “The scope of geographic coverage of the Rules takes one’s breath away.”

Thus even in arbitration, Quixtar/Amway cannot use the non-compete against the plaintiff IBO’s in that case. Perhaps this becomes precedent, as well as the other cases mentioned in the final ruling of the judge.

For those who want to read:
http://the.q.whistleblower.googlepages.com/GeorgiaCourtRuling.pdf

It’s pretty straight-forward.
Steve in Texas Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Your reference to Orrin as a Mis-Leader is comical. If you want to know who is a leader, look at the number of people following them… If you want to see a Mis-leader… look at the number of people running from them.

Nobody is running from Orrin! I do however wonder what the exact number (obviously in the tens of thousands) of people who have run from Q/A since August 9.

Keep passing out the Kool-Aid!

Here is a suggestion… Meet TEAM in the marketplace and we will let the people decide. It’s the American Way…you do remember that is how you got your name right… AM-Way? Why are you so afraid of Free Enterprise? If Orrin is such a mis-leader would not the TEAM be doomed to fail? So why not pick your fight in the marketplace!

I thought maybe you were scared because you know the truth about Orrin… and his ethical leadership. Then it dawned on me… You wouldn’t recognize truth if it walked up and peed on your leg!

Now I am convinced you are just scared. You run and hide behind non-compete agreements, lawsuits, paid bloggers, unsolicited renewals , nonpayment of bonuses, threats…. shall I go on?

I will personally support Orrin and so many others you have chosen to attack. I am confident that tens of thousands of others will support him as well. HOWEVER in ALL fairness… The IBO defense fund set up to support other IBOs (NOT ORRIN) who have been attacked by Quixtar. Participation in this fund is completely voluntary.

Quixtar has a similar program called the Jay Factor to support their legal battle. Unfortunately for the few remaining Amway IBO’s, the Jay factor is not voluntary.
Big D Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Must we slip futher…from emotional uninteligence… to down right venom. I was “out” of this business the same day that I heard about the terminations of the people I respected.

When I heard about this, Like an independent business owner that cared about my future.. I listened first to what you “Alticor” had to say about all of this… I did not believe you!!!!…

So I naturally said to myself… theres another side to this…

Say whatever you want Alticor, people already know the truth. The price gouging, the name change, the endless failures and churning of IBOs, the non-compete, the subjective and non payment of bonuses, the board members conspiring against competitors in the tools business, the endless legal entrapment of IBOs, the dispargement of honorable people, the company owned private court system, and the lack of effort from the company to provide a product line that is competitively priced. I can think of a lot more..

So you say I’m not supposed even know that there is an opportunity to make money from support materials? Thanks Andy!!! I thought you were interested in my success.

I’m sorry, but the Amway business has become a dirty business. Maybe its time to clean out the mouths of some of the legal department with some of that good soap that you guys make. The soap is still good… I will never buy any more of it.

The thing about Orrin Woodward that you hate so much is that your dealings with him have exposed you for what you really are. Orrin and the rest have really not said much of anything other than making a few historical comparisons… I WISH I could get some information from Orrin and Chris and Billy.. but for some reason.. they have respected the legal system and kept quiet..

The problem now is not Orrin.. Orrin was never the problem…..You had your chance to settle with him. Your persecution of Orrin only exposed how you really felt about the rest of us… being called cattle by your lawyers and refusing to pay some of our friends because they would not go along with you.

I left, I am proud of my decision, and If I am ever asked to reflect on my history with your company since the early 90’s.. nothing will be spoken of except the truth.. .. and you my friends at Alticor with be the ones that have to live with that.
Truth Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Amway Lovers,

Ive never heard of a company stoop so low. The fact you have to do this makes me wonder why.
I believe
1. Your Totally Scared. tons of people out and your business is going down hill rapidly. “Point Proven” by you auto renewing silvers and above free. You changed that so people would stay in cause its free.
2. Your Counsel is from Dictators that need this company to keep their non elected position. Mike Mohr and the dictator roles of the “Non Elected Board Positions”

Companys that run out of FEAR are doomed to fail. I was in Quixtar in 2001 and you had major problems them with leadership and you have major problems now. Im not apart of Team but it is just like you to bully people around and lie about someone or something. I hope the courts do to you what youve done to others.

ps. Hows the Uk going.
curtisgb Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Awesome post.

Anyone needing clarification on the character and values of the people involved at Ada only need to reference this post.
Linda Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
God sees the truth and stands beside Orrin.
Brad Obert Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Josh #20, Since there is no way of knowing what you presume for a fact or not, how about we use facts. I heard nothing from Orrin or anyone else for that matter about Monavie or any other mlm or business or product until it was posted on his blog. There was and still is nothing even on the TEAM site about other mlm’s or anything like that. The “Wal-mart” rumors were obviously just that. So we are naive for looking at facts, and you’re naive for looking at thoery.

White Knight #27, Even if we grant you that Orrin is bad mouthing the corp in the CA lawsuit, have you read any of the Q/A statements? You are an adult and read both and think Orrin’s statements are “bad-mouthing” and the Q/A statements are ?. It appears to me that OW’s are actually true, and the Q/A is simply
trashing what they cannot defend. How about a statement answering some of the claims TEAM makes…..guess not.

If I was trying to build a large IBOship I would be frustrated when prospects read these posts from the corporation.
Big Bob Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
You guys are huge liers. Your mentality reeks of brutal lieing mischief. Alticor’s legal harassment is failing, miserably and utterly. The big ol Qstar pyramid is crumbling and you know it. That’s why you lash out from the corner you’ve backed yourself into. Unbelievable. curtisgb (post 34) hit the nail on the head.
Dwight Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
I agree with everything that Quixtar has done to protect the IBO’s. No one within the business has the right to steal and lure IBO’s from other organizations to join their organizations to increase tool flow to make money from those individuals. This action will put any and every organization at risk for failure. I believe what the Team has done has proven no matter how you might try to disguise what they did, the end result was organizations losing IBO’s that they had worked hard to bring into the business, years of working with those people-regardless of what level they had reached, that upline had an investment in time and effort developing that business and that individual. And if the Team had any ethics they would have never taken from other organizations and they should have used their system to build their teams. The moment they crossed that line of recruiting other IBO’s from other organizations was the beginning of their downfall, not Quixtar.
Kim Podbilski Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
I have to say I’m suprised to see that they let us post these comments of which 95% defend our leader.
Kim Podbilski Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Hi &^%$ this is *&@#%$ have I caught you at a bad time?
NO Great hey I was wondering if you would be interested in joining my AMWAY business?
CLICK……………….
quitesimply Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
I feel for you #38. If I were in your shoes I would feel the same way because your truth is only what you have been told and you believe them all. In the past you could believe them so why question them? The truth is that what you have stated is not true although you are being told that it is. You could have never convinced me in the 32 years that I have been around Amway/Quixtar, that I would have ever left the business but more importantly felt so sad that they had changed the deal. It breaks my heart. We are not happy that all the remaining IBO’s are being negatively affected by all that has happened. We do however feel sorry for those of you who still stand up for it. It is no longer a business opportunity that we and many others can not promote with integrity so we left. If you saw things from the other side…you might too.

Just so you know, the thousands of people who have left Q/A are not followers…following a leader…we are all strong leaders who are following a great servant.

My best to you and may your dreams come true in whatever business you put your time and effort…
Brad Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
I was reticent about adding to the dialogue here. But you have proven yourselves to be without honor or character. Your comments concerning Billy Florence are plain wrong. Period. I have known Billy Florence and have worked with him within the Quixtar business and in other business ventures and I can attest that he is undoubtedly a man of character, honesty, and integrity. I was honored to be associated with the Amway/Quixtar Company for many years…. Now I am completely embarrassed by my association. Where are Doug Devos and Steve Van Andel in this? I cannot possibly believe they being christian men could ever endorse this dribble.
Scott Says:
March 10th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
IBO? I Bailed Out? Whats the proplem? You asked for it, take responsibility for your own business and quit finding fault in others. You can learn this in the Team Leadership Training System. Try it you will like it!!! At a fair price as well. Why for a company as good as you, I will triple the price to help you feel more at home.
Eric (AEM) Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 12:23 am
Typically when two parties are having a dispute you can get a feel for who is right by what each says about the other. The party who is throwing the biggest pre-teen type fit is usually wrong. The party who quietly asks for a fair 3rd party to hear out the issue in a civil manner while encouraging people not to disparage the other is normally right.
White Knight Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 12:37 am
I agree with Dwight post #38.

Gosh, ow comes in to speak or one of his cohorts and then next thing you know ow is in the suite with the larger pins and viola they start using his materials. Why plug in IBO’s not in your group? Sigh.

It is a free country. Anyone can leave as long as you are of integrity and feel your word is your bond and follow the rules.

It seems and appears that ow does not want to lead by following the rules.

Why loot?
The minute ow left he also financially hurt his upline and who speaks for them? It only leaves Quixtar to speak for them.
Then when ow and his cohorts loot cross lines who speaks for their upline? It only leaves Quixtar.

So everyone blames Quixtar for protecting the line of sponsorship. I do not blame them and I salute Quixtar for its’ leadership.

Brad #36
I am not sure what you mean by Q/A statements? And I am surprised that everything ow states you feel is true? Maybe at one time ow was speaking the truth but now I am not at all sure. The corporate posts you disagree with too? Okay, it is a free country and maybe you and I might write them differently.

Just the same don’t call this tactic of looting and ignoring a contract and disregarding rules leadership. It is not leadership.

A leader would admit his or her mistakes, pay the price and move on.

Okay to leave but leave others alone and do not try to poison the well on your way out of the business; that is not leadership either.

Being proud of the collateral damage caused by the actions of ow and his hired professionals is not leadership.
Robin Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 1:04 am
This is getting so OLD!!!! First post. Read a little every now and then. Mostly out making a living.

I’m disgusted with the whole thing!!! Hence why I felt like I should post.

I am with TEAM. Not for reasons most non team would think. I would never have stayed in the quixtar business with the name change. Could have cared less what team was doing. I just knew I was done. Yes I had a decent sized business. Not willing to try and build a business with all the negativity of amway name. Don’t bother responding how great it is I wont be on long enough to read your response and really dont care. After reading an amway post, would have left solely for that reason. Totally unnecessary and unprofessional. Cant believe a billion dollar corporation would respond that way. hope the poster was terminated.

Also am disgusted with some of the posts from team people. I have chosen to stay with team because it makes sense to me for my family. The team system has changed the lives of everyone in our family including our son. Worth more than any money, thats for sure. But what disgusts me is the kind of posts deifying ow. Do I think he is an awesome leader? Yes. do i believe in God and Jesus Christ as my Savior? Yes. But I am so sick of the way people post with religion in regards to ow. He is a MAN!!! Please worship only one GOD, the true God. Leave your emotions out of your posts.

Post only facts. Opinions are like, well you know. everyone has them. When I do want to read something on all these blogs I’ve got to weed through pages and pages on bs.

Frankly I wont even go to the FTIBO or whatever its called anymore because it nauseates me. Sick of listening to all the nonsense about how great ow is and God this and God that like he is some God. I think its a shame the team allowed this to happen to a blog about them. Some one should stop it.

As for the people with amway I wish you all the best in your business. I truly feel bad for all the ibos this has hurt on both sides.

As for me my six months is up and I will be doing what ever it is I want. As far as pillaging my downline. NO But remember this business is built on relationships and family. If they ask me whatI am doing and they wish to also. Sorry thats not raiding. I didnt ask them. I dont need to. Last time I checked the world has enough people Im not worried and dont need to solicit them. Cant stop them from joining with me though. Last time I checked its a free country. Guess they will just be signing a waiver stated I didnt go to them so I am not hauled into court.

I think Amway started and has continued unprofessionaly. its a shame.
XIBOX Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 1:32 am
Dwight
Exactly what has Quixtar done to protect you the IBO’s and their business?

Changed their name to Amway?
Kept earned bonuses and claimed they where discretionary?
Not lowered their pricing?
Maybe you could list a few more?

No Team person I know has recruited any IBO into the Team System.
If you or your Organization “lost” IBO’s than you did you really have them in the first place?
You see that is what all the fuss is about Quixtar is unable to Tie the IBO’s to a tree and force them to stay there. We have free will, the choice to go and do what we want.
Or are you of the notion that once you signed someone up they were YOURS to do with what you wanted. I am positive this is Q/A’s thought is it yours?
P.S. Regarding your last sentence, um, what makes you think Team is in a downfall? Just curious because the last time I checked Team is only going uphill and Quixtar is bobsledding downhill.
G-Man Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 1:46 am
When are we going to move on? All of this verbage sounds like a “jilted ex-girl friend,” incapable of letting go. Endless threats, insinuations, slander, and law-suits; for what? Revenge? Why would anyone in their right mind want to “partner” in a business with any of you? It is time to get a life and move on. This is my last visit this site. See ya-all.
Free to flee Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 2:12 am
1st, the IBO Defense Fund is to assist all IBO’s being attacked legally by Quixtar or Amway or Alticor - whoever you are. Since you read the blog you know that, but why let the truth interfere with a great smear campaign.

2nd, we’ve been loyal to A then Q since 1990. We brought you-A/Q/A -huge dollars for years. We did it as a team- with all of the many people that we, with our leaders, spent years loving and caring for. We love them & their families. Our leaders loved all of us into who we are today. They loved us right out of our jobs!!! The minute you terminated them, you may as well have terminated us. You decided that we were gone. Then you told us “Just Go”.

3rd, From the moment we read your email about your plans to shove Amway down our throats, we knew our business was gone. Gone due to your brilliant decisions, not because of Orrin.

4th, It’s so convenient for you to use Orrin and Team as your scapegoat for all of your bad decisions. I’d say you’ve been manipulating things all along to cover your mistakes.

5th, You stole our year end bonus. We earned it fair & square by following the qualifications you laid out.. You followed no protocol, you just didn’t pay us. You are using our money to fund your legal battles attacking our leaders. You can bet we’re going to contribute to their legal fund. We’ve got to at least match what you stole from us, to give them a fighting chance!

6th, No one on the team had to suggest, ask, connive, manipulate, or trick us in any way. We left because of your actions. You need to grow up and face the music! As far as I know, no one on our team needed anyone to help them make their decision to resign, or, not renew. Despite immediate financial loss, which has continued for 6 “no compete” months, we had no doubt what we must do to survive and thrive in the future. We had no doubts where our loyalty should be. Even though you don’t know it, you are only a product supplier, not a leader. We followed the people who have driven the miles, laughed and cried with us, attended the weddings and funerals, and believed in us before we believed in ourselves. They, not you, are leaders.

Thank God for the Team. We retired from our jobs, this was our future. We had no idea you had so much power and conrol over our lives. We would have been left with no hope…..just a crumbling shell of a once great business. Just go Amway, Quixtar, Alticor or whoever you pretend to be.
IBO To Go Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 7:42 am
Josh #20 Says:

“I would contend, although my personal belief, that OW already had MonaVie in line, if things did fall through with Q*. He already had a crack legal team before hand with a “leverage” lawsuit. Even if at the time it was only in theory.”

“There were rumors about it FAR before last August about TEAM leaving, so to think that there was not something in the works, again even if in theory, is very naive on your part.”

The theories, suppositions, rumors and lies that you and your cube-mate, Tex come up with over at Q just make me laugh.
Doug Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 8:03 am
You know it is hard to believe that a corporation that wants to be the best business oppurtunity in North America would personally attack anyone. Makes me wonder if i made the right decision……
IBO To Go Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 8:06 am
Alticor,

Like Cheryl#23, I too would like to thank you for your reminder about the IBO Legal Defense Fund. I too have been remiss in my support until now.

I have now pledged to give my ongoing financial support to the TEAM leaders at ibolegaldefensefund.com who have laid it on the line for our freedom. I encourage all to do the same.
Big D Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 8:08 am
To Dwight:

The Ibos and LOS were never compromised or changed by TEAM. Some Organizations as a whole sought out TEAM and asked to Join. The “other” tool Companies may have lost some people but they were still in “Quixtar” and thier uplines did not lose money from the “quixtar” business until “quixtar” terminated Orrin. The aftermath of this caused lots of losses for everyone, but it WAS Quixtar my friend. If anyone ever joined TEAM or left Quixtar after the terminations it was of thier own free will. The reasons for all of this is that people wanted to be associated with a team that was growing. My team was not growing until I joined TEAM.. that was my choice and I can live with it regardless of the outcome. I probably would have left Quixtar sooner had I not found TEAM.
Tex Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 8:50 am
Clint #3,

1. Alticor is scared? They are winning virtually every court decision. Orrin is publicly begging for money and hallucinating on his blog. It’s clear to me that Orrin “Alfred E. Neuman (What-Me Worry?) Woodward is the one who is scared. Why don’t they just let it go? Because OW caused damage to the business, and his current actions continue to cause damage. What happened to “just go team.”? Quixtar wants TEAM to go, but they also have to follow the rules on their way out. There’s a lot more to this issue than LOS tracking. Get a clue.

2. The immaturity of Alticor management? They’re doing the right thing, rubbing Orrin’s face in his own “mess” until he cries “uncle.” They CAN’T stoop lower than Orrin, he set the “standard” that can’t be exceeded. At least he’s good for something.

3. Alticor wants to enforce their rules, and Orrin & Co. got in the way. How do you KNOW Orrin obeyed the 6 month or 2 year rules? He didn’t have a very good record of following them before, what makes you think he has started now? The contract was extended because Orrin made a BIG mess, and it’s taking longer than normal to clean it up. It takes a while to clean up a mess when you’re using Orrin’s face as a mop.

You have never in your life seen a company act in such a reckless manor? Sure you have, Orrin & Co. It really makes you question Orrin. There is no level of professionalism there and there hasn’t been since all of this started. Stop acting like a little kid Orrin “Alfred E. Neuman” Woodward!
nonprofit Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 8:57 am
Dwight #38
I’m afraid your badly misinformed, I’m not surprised though. You were likely spoon fed your info from the same source as the above post! Every organization that has joined the Team system has approached them. They were tired of stagnant or backward growth in the Quixtar model. Please refer to Halgen’s and Florence’s posts referring to why they decided to join the Team system. They joined Team because Team had a system in place that was efficient and was putting up growth #’s that were unheard of. Those leaders saw a spiraling downward turn in renewals and sponsorship, it was their solution to save a failing business. A little side note, it worked! Those organizations showed renewed growth and began to flourish. I think you can see where their loyalty came from. When the company was approached with lowering the prices to help them with these issues, all they got was we’re working on pricing. The Team actually gave them a working and successful solution. It’s no secret to me why they follow Orrin and Chris! Look at the time lines, numbers don’t lie. You can disparage the “tool scam” all you want, but the success is there in black and white
.
This post isn’t about that. This is a personal attack by a billion dollar company on a single successful individual. They are afraid of the power of unity against their bullying and money. They don’t want the Team legal defense fund to grow. It is totally against their plan to use their resources to outlast this legal action. Think about it! If they are in fact in the right, why would they care how hard Team tries to defend themselves in court? Does our legal system not work? Does right not overcome might in a court of law? Why do they hide behind closed door arbitration? I’m seeing a flailing legal defense trying to poke holes in the Team’s defense by disparaging the unification of the Team. Another side bar….it’s not working! We loathe bully’s! All you’ve done is form a stronger bond between us. The money is flowing into our defense fund.

The Amway/Quixtar people don’t want you to know their arbitration isn’t working in their favor. They fear the Georgia decision will have a ripple effect. The company also knows if England reaches an unfavorable outcome it will have ramifications in these stateside actions. Now the state of Missouri is looking into them. This is not just about Team! It’s a repetitive behavior that is having a sour taste in the mouths legal systems worldwide. Open your eyes people! This is not coincidence.
Tex Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 9:00 am
rdknyvr #4,

Me, too.

Barbara #6,

I must say - you have absolutely left me speechless. How low can Orrin go and how much more pathetic can he become??? After all HE has done and after all the IBO’S HE has hurt with his continued arrogance and actions can he continue this charade as if we were all born yesterday???? Anyone will any sense - common or otherwise, can see the TRUTH IN ALL OF THIS. PEOPLE ARE LEAVING IN DROVES BECAUSE OF ORRIN - AND NOW ORRIN IS PAYING FOR IT!!!!
Tex Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 9:03 am
almost free #7,

Why can’t we all just get along? Because Orrin attacked, and Quixtar is defending themselves. You ask us to JUST GO and now you won’t let us, and that’s because you didn’t follow the rules on your way out. If your business is that good then why fight, because it’s worth fighting over. Because you know the pattern for leaving is set. ATTACK ORRIN!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chuck Lia Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 9:35 am
#38 Dwight:

While I agree with you about the primary issues associated with TEAM, one point needs to be mentioned in TEAM’s defense. Most, if not all, of the other LOAs that joined forces with TEAM initiated the contact that led to the relationship, not TEAM. That is not to say that TEAM didn’t know it would benefit from the additional relationship with a new LOA. So I would say that it would be inaccurate to say TEAM “recruited” other LOAs/IBOs; rather, several other LOAs/IBOs wanted to be affiliated with TEAM.

In addition, even when some LOAs did not join forces with TEAM, after their leadership interacted with TEAM’s leadership (on the IBOAI Board, etc.) they subsequently implemented aspects of TEAM’s program in their IBO training and business previews.

So there is plenty of blame to go around on all sides.
Tex Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Jerad #8,

Here we go again. Let’s just look at the beginning of this post to see how much distortion is coming from the Corp.

*He has abused the legal system by filing multiple, frivolous lawsuits that have been dismissed with prejudice. —- This isn’t an opinion, he clearly broke the rules by going the court route versus into arbitration.

*He has abused business relationships of people he partnered with for more than a decade by repeatedly violating his contract commitments to respect the Line of Sponsorship of others. —- Haven’t you read the termination letter, NONE of which has been refuted by Orrin? He damaged EVERY A/Q IBO’s business, by lying about the business being an illegal pyramid, all while running his own tool scam.

*He has abused his fiduciary responsibilities to his trade association by inducing others to disgorge confidential information and violate court orders.” —- Do you think the IBOAI would file a lawsuit for disclosure of confidential information without any evidence?

Yet the Corp mentions then out of hand as if they have already been accepted as fact, because they are facts.

Then let’s not forget the thouroughly debunked claim that Orrin had a new MLM, which hasn’t been debunked at all.

Shame. Shame on you Orrin. Shame on you too, Jerad.
Barbara Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Dwight #38

Common sense should tell you if life at Q was soooo good no IBO in his right mind would have left. No one can lure anyone anywhere without their permission!! Stop blaming TEAM for all that is wrong with Q.
JimZ Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:15 am
Linda (#35)

“God sees the truth and stands beside Orrin.”

You have GOT to be KIDDING.

Shoud we presume that God is seated at the right hand of Orrin? Since you appear to know the mind of God so well, perhaps you can tell me exactly where Orrin is in the Holy Trinity pecking order. Or perhaps we are now expanding the Triune Godhead to FOUR, so we don’t have to kick out either the Father, Son or Holy Spirit in order to make room for His Holiness Orrin Woodward.

Perhaps the greatest moral failure of the “Kingpins” is their transmutation of a business into a religious crusade. I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with people relying on God for their guidance, inspiration, and success. But I think God deserves a LITTLE more respect than our assumption that we have an exclusive on his favor.

My Bible says that “God is no respector of persons.” I doubt that Orrin has a moral exclusive on God. Whether you care to believe it or not, God desires the best for the Alticor Blog administrator, you, me, Orrin and even the legal team at Alticor.

Your presumption that Orrin has done everything in exact accordance with God’s Will and that his opponents have done so much “out of the will of God” so that God is now choosing sides is a very slippery slope. It is the first step towards de-humanizing those who believe differently than you.

Frankly, both sides have plusses and minuses in their column. But there is one thing I CAN tell you. When I read the Bible it teaches me that God is a “covenant” God. In fact, the Bible talks about swearing “to your own hurt” - meaning that when you make an agreeement, you fulfill it even if it hurts you to do so - otherwise our “contracts” are just conveniences until we choose to toss them aside.

For better or worse, Orrin signed contracts that he has now chosen to violate for a “greater moral good” (so he claims).

I don’t think EITHER side has an exclusive on God, but I do suspect that God isn’t very thrilled with Orrin tossing aside “covenants”. God would never do that.
Tex Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:19 am
fuddman #9,

This blog site is for whatever it needs to address. Your “close family member who is quite high in the ranks of Q” needs to get a clue. If Quixtar doesn’t fight fire with fire and make an example of Orrin “Alfred E. Neuman (What-Me Worry?)” Woodward, this fiasco will be repeated by others. There have been plenty of positives, tell your “close family member who is quite high in the ranks of Q” to stop focusing on the negative. I wish I could have been at that meeting, I would have had some gasoline to throw on the fire. Burn BABY, burn. I’m glad he’s quitting, we don’t need gutless morons working for Quixtar. Orrin has a “nice” veneer, but he is pure evil just below the surface. If he was such a great guy, he would have an open blog and address ALL the issues, instead of acting as a gatekeeper by approving posts to be seen by others. You’re even more predictable, by trying to defend the indefensable.
Steve Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:42 am
I had no plans of supporting the IBO legal defense fund (for ALL IBOs in legal battles, not just Orrin) but now I will be reconsidering the amount I give them.

Also, you will be receiving my resignation letter via fax and postal mail within the week. Your conduct in this matter is extremely childish and I will not be a part of it any longer. Make sure to blame Orrin for one more resignation since you, Quixtar/Amway/Alticor, obviously can not take any blame for your actions. (Since you are not the smartest people, that was sarcasm. I’m resigning BECAUSE of the CORPORATION’S actions.)
Bill Smith Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:49 am
TEX

1. “Alticor is scared? They are winning virtually every court decision”.

You call this winning virtually every court decision?

“In the Superior Court of White County, the Honorable Chief Judge David E. Barrett ruled that the non-competition clause of Quixtar’s contract was “invalid” and will not be subject to any arbitration.
john Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:50 am
IBOAI Trade Secrets: Pathetic retention rate; 3.4% retail sales. And Alticor agrees with the IBOAI that these are trade secrets? Unbelievable! These are numbers that should be told to every prospective IBO. Instead, Amway/QUixtar puts their stamp of approval on the kingpin liars. They know that Britt and Puryear etc. have been spewing lie after lie in order to trap young families, college kids and single moms into buying their silly “proven systems of success” tapes and functions. Alticor, I implore you to stop allowing lives to be destroyed by your kingpin liars.
Brian Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 11:09 am
“Mis-ter Leader” We like Orrin.

I’d expect no less from the blog author of the ridiculous attack on IBOs “Just Go, Team”

We are going. Q, Just let us go.

300 million people in N.America and you are concerned with people following Orrin W.? What are you so concerned about?

The man who is anybody and who does anything is surely going to be criticized, vilified, and misunderstood. This is part of the penalty for greatness – Elbert Hubbard

“When we judge or criticize another person, it says nothing about that person; it merely says something about our own need to be critical.”

Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving. - Dale Carnegie

Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. - Benjamin Franklin
Mike Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 11:23 am
Your position regarding the Georgia case is absurd. I would like to have an Alticor attorney on here stating that your noncompete would ever be enforcable in Georgia. I have litigated many noncompete cases in Georgia, and have NEVER seen one that prohibits a person from competing in the entire US hold up. To educate you: Under Georgia law, you must limit the noncompete in terms of time and duration at the tiem the contract is signed. So, if a person starts out only working in one county, then the noncompete must be limited to that county or else the entire noncompete is void. If they later work in another county, then a new contract must be executed at that time.

Please comment.
john jay franklin Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. - Benjamin Franklin
ThunderSTRUCK Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Thank you Alticor!!!! I’ve considered giving to the defense fund but hadn’t as of yet. Your pathetic attack on this wonderful man has now convinced me to contribute. Once again, YOU are the ones driving others to act, just like you asking TEAM to “just go”. We did, thanks to you. And by the way nobody EVER solicited me to leave Quixtar, your actions dictated it. Well, I am overjoyed to say this is my last day, tomorrow I am free. I wish you the very best, I actually hope you can get your act together and salvage your business. Me? I’m going to keep growing thru leadership development. Bye.
ThunderSTRUCK Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Robin #45

Very good post and I couldn’t agree more. Orrin is wonderful leader and I am proud to say a friend of mine. But, there is only one who has walked this earth that can be called perfect…Jesus. Folks, please, I am sure Orrin apreciates all of the positive feedback, but he would be very uncomfortable being compared to Deity. He is a great leader, but a man.
SoonerIBO Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 11:59 am
IBO To Go #51

I’m sure that Orrin “Panhandler” Woodward appreciates that.

Keep on donating, Flock, keep on donating.

Pathetic.
Mimi Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
I really hate all of this going on. It’s brought discension among friends and families…how can a thing that is sooo good,(TEAM’S new venture) bring so much hurt? For TEAM to proclaim such spirituality, much scripture totally goes against many of their actions. We live in the end times, people are turning against one another for the almighty dollar. How sad.
Joseph W. McGuire Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
I think you people have lost your minds. Does a real leader scare you that bad? Your “illusory and unenforcible rules” (Not my own words) make it patently obvious that you fear competent leadership that steps outside your train of thought. In summary you are pathetic.
P.S. Lots of luck getting elected Dick you’ll need it now that your company has alienated just about everyone. To bad, You may have been a good governor for Michigan.
Joe
jerandi Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Brad

The Morrison Case is very complex and actually has stemmed from as stacking lawsuit that is over 12 yrs old. Don Willson and Randy Haugen worked side by side with the corporation to stop the stacking. Despite that now they say that they were doing the same thing. I know for fact its not true. It is very sad that men like Billy Florence and Don Willson who dedicated there lives to the Altacor cause have been dismissed so easily. Don is not even a member of TEAM as far as we can tell and he served all of us for year on the IBOA.
I would like to know when Altacor is going to throw Kelly Robins out for stacking and ruining the lives of over 8,000 IBO’s. I find it interesting after all of the damage he did he still has an IBO # but you throw Don Willson out who has done nothing wrong but question your product pricing which was part of the job he was elected to do

Sad very
Eric (AEM) Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Can all those that left Quixtar for Team due to Teams pressure on them please say something?

I talked with my turbo 25 on Auguest 10th and he said “business as usual, don’t leave quixtar, don’t do anything any different”. He never said anything different. Still hasn’t. My policy counsel memeber had a meeting a few weeks after the 10th and said basically the same thing. So it seems really odd that people are continueing to assert that Team leaders pressured IBO’s to leave Quixtar, this is far from my experience. So if you were one of the ones that was pressured by Team leadership to leave Quixtar to join Team please let your voice be heard.

And yes I know a woman testified in MI that Doug Stroh told her that her LOS was pretty much going to be gone and it would be good for her to leave Quixtar. To me that sounds more like a helpful upline giving a heads up than anything else.

Interesting to note that on Orrins blog he summerized what is going on, just as with this blog. All of what he says agree’s factually with what Alticor says, only I read his he didn’t seem angry with anybody. Alticor seems pissed. . . why such a big difference?
Wondering Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
When will this ever get better? After all it seems that TEAM is not going to return.

If A/Q/A knows that they will not return, then any further action should be seen to do what?

Does continued discussion only hurt IBOs? Is there a redeeming value in all of this?

How come there is no longer a link from Q to this blog? Nor could I find a link from Q zone to this blog? Does anyone know where it is? Has it disappeared? Is it to contain the same bloggers and prevent the word from spreading?

Just wondering
FORMER IBO Steve Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Well 4 hours later and my first post has yet to be posted. In that post I stated that Q will be receiving my resignation within the week but I decided to get it out today via fax. It should be in your Business & Conduct Rules Dept as I type this post.

Acting like my 3 yr old daughter does not do your company good. I give her a quick spanking when she throughs a tantrum and the only way to do that to Q/A/A is by giving you my resignation. You asked “Go Team Go” and they did. Now with your continued actions we non-Team IBO’s are tired of it and must go too.
Jeremy Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Tex. you never learn do you, Were in the rules does it say if you try to get relief from a bogus contract and the courts say No. the 6mo non-compete will be infinite for you as long as we can come up with BS case to drag you into court again. Q/A is upset, I would be too if the whole world was exposed for the child like behavior that has been under wraps in arbritration(sp) Tex, Tex, Tex why complain about (tool king pins) when it is Q/A that wanted them to opperate that way. Why not go support Exxon Mobile but then complain that the gas stations are (oil) King pins. I dont know what you’ve been reading either? All the court documents I’ve seen, some very recent Q/A arguments are getting thrown out of court. Also the defense fund is for all ibo’s who have had a dispute with the Q/A (money draining)legal team. I wouldnt be knocking it when their thru with you, you’ll be thanking your stars that there is one.
Utah Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Wondering #76,
No, neither the IBOAI blog or opportunityzone blog typically have direct links to this site.

Sometimes they have a direct quote, or perhaps a link in a post, but those sites typically don’t allow hateful comments, so why would they want to “claim” Alticor or Amway blog sites.

Quixtar’s oportunityzone blog, overall has been positive.

Alticor, which the others have to deal with, seems to be the main source of bad blood. Based on that, it would seem the buck stops at Doug and Steve.
Wondering Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Who is paying for the A/Q/A Lawsuits, Counter-Lawsuits and Mediation?
john Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Dear Administrator,
Can you tell us exactly what it means when you say “independent business owner”. If I have an “independent” business and I enlist several people into “my” downline in “my independent” business, but one day I realize that “I” want to move myself and “my” downline from “my independent” business into something else - all of a sudden things change. Now it is Alticor’s downline and Alticor’s business. What in the world is “independent” about the “disrtibutorship” opportunity you sell for a joining fee? The truth as I see it is that there is only one business “Quixtar” and everyone who signs up is absolutely nothing more than a distributor who must follow your microscopic rules or bad things happen - like bonuses withheld, termination and trash talking on the “bathroom walls of society” internet.
Truth Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Hey Tex,
I have a suspicion you are a iboai board member or how do you know all this stuff. Or maybe a board member is telling your the iboai board secrets. Maybe they ought to look into this. Oh wait, quixtar only uses its rules to its advantage. I guess will never know but im betting your a non elected board member that has a big pin and a small amount of people. Cant fake it too long. Do your monthly opens have 5 or 6 people showing up regularly. I would where a shirt Tex that said “Im In Amway do you wnat to join”. And see the response. Probably no response just laughter.
Joe Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
DO you think the readers are stupid enough to believe the propaganda your company releases.Obviuosly you do that is why you have treated the IBO’s the way you have(your property)This will NOT help get back ANY Ibo,they are gone 4 ever!And most have do not have anything good to say about your company.This tactic is not working,get different lawyers to come up with a better approach.Amway’s name is the kiss of death.
Marnie Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Oh my G!! This is beyond ludicrous! Orrin is waging war against Quixtar? Just how many lawsuits did he initiate against you??? ONE! It’s been dismissed, so move on. Then the TEAM filed a request for a restraining order to try to get you to stop interfering with their business.

How many have you launched against Orrin, the TEAM, and others for being associated with the TEAM? Seven, ten, how many? And how many against bloggers who voice their opinions? And what about the subpeonas sent to 62 people to produce every document over four years in your futile attempt to prove your allegations of rule violations?

I have never, ever heard of any company, let alone a multi-billion dollar company, wage such a low-life smear campaign. Keep smearing, folks. At some point, Orrin will be allowed to talk. It is pretty clear that that is what scares you.

Good grief, do you people have NOTHING else to do? Oh yeah, with all the IBOs that left–and more are lining up to leave–I guess you do have too much time on your hands. Go get a hobby, will you?
gone,baby,gone Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
We are not ever coming back, never again would I associate my name with alticor/quixtar/amway! You told us to go and we did. So leave us alone! You are only hurting yourselves more and more everyday, now you even have non-team ibos leaving, way to go you guys are so smart!
Bridgett Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Praise the Lo…er, I mean, praise Orrin!

http://orrin.woodward.youaremighty.com/
mpzildjian Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Nice timing… A last effort at what you do best. 6 months is up guys. Get over it and brace yourself.

“Right on by.. Right on by”

PS. Shouldn’t you be worrying about how to market “Amway” to America again? That’s a bigger challenge than Orrin Woodward.
GirlPower Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
#77 Steve:

I think if anyone deserves a quick spanking it’d be Orrin.
Proud to be a past IBO Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
For those of us that willingly support the IBO defense fund - how are your current employees of Quixtar/Amway paying for your repeated attacks on TEAM?

The major difference is free choice - those of us that support the IBO defense fund are free to contribute or free to not contribute depending on our choice. Those employees (or should we say IBO’s) of Quixtar and Amway have no choice - they just get to pay.

I favor free choice.
Kris M. Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
You are so scared, so weak. This misinformation will come back to bite you.

The IBO legal defense fund is for the silvers and the emeralds that quixway is extorting. Trying to drag platinums into arbitration who can’t fight a multi-billion dollar company legally.

Quixway will not last. The disinformation and vehement you continue to spew will not work.

Just one year ago, Orrin was the darling of Quixtar. His depth building was applauded by the corporation. Quixway speaks with a forked tongue.

It’s really quite pitiful. Non of you can hold a candle to the kind of man Orrin Woodward is.
Ryan B. Hunt Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 12:26 am
Tex, What is your win? Why do you have a dog in the fight?

White Knight - The former IBO’s, including Orrin, who filed the lawsuit, did so because you can’t arbitrate a class action lawsuit. Thus, they broke no rule. 2nd Orrin sat out his six months before mentioning anything about Mona-Vie. Then, respectful of the law, has not expounded on his plans pending a judgment from a Michigan judge, which should be done with on his birthday. How early he made plans to join Mona-Vie is irrelevant. There are no rules about “shopping” other opportunities. There are some question about the trade-secrets of the IBOAI… Not sure what was really secret and what was common knowledge, but other than that some-what gray area, what rules have been broken? Anyone? Oh… and don’t tell me he or anyone else on the Team is “raiding” the LOS. They are leaders. By definition if you are leading, someone is following. When Team leaders walk away, they couldn’t keep people from following if they tried. The Team is following a vision of creating one million leaders. Now that’s compelling. I believe that Q’s own financial predictions are for them to shrink over the next couple of years, and those were done before they hacked the heads off of the leaders of 40% of their North American business. It’s hard to follow a vision of shrinkage.

Now you boys and girls be easy on me. I don’t want to have my feeling hurt And, one more thing before I go… That’s my name. What’s yours?
Ryan B. Hunt Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 12:32 am
Wondering

I’ve got a good mind to post a link to this site from my pro team blog. This blog does more for our case than our own blogs:)
Tex Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 7:03 am
Utah #10,

Orrin has made “some” mistakes? How about HUGE mistakes?

The first question is, who broke the same rules year after year? Who refused to even listen to how to (again) learn how to start following the rules? fix whose mistakes caused the IBOs that did resign, or fail to renew on purpose, to do so. Of course those are just the facts. I have always said it would be a good idea for people to examine the facts and decide for themselves.

I have NEVER been contacted by any of what is left of any LOS after going off standing order tools a couple of years ago. If they didn’t contact me, then why would I even think about considering them anything except lying cowardly “kingpins” after over 15 years? Can you say the actions of the lying cowardly “kingpins”? I heard of Orrin several years ago, he even came to at least one of our major functions.

Did Orrin cause the situation in the UK or India, or the stagnation of sales in the US prior to August 2007? —- Not directly, but by being just another lying cowardly “kingpin”, he fell right in line with the others.

Did Orrin cause Alticor decide to rename Quixtar to Amway without the backing of the North American field? —- I doubt it. I consider this a good change, and doubt Orrin could be held responsible for a good change.

I saw this as a sign that the IBOAI didn’t have real say anymore. I had thought, and still do think, that Q/A can’t change the plan or rules without the IBOAI’s approval. —- I thought the IBOAI had more of a say than they do as well. I’m glad they don’t, why would you want a bunch of lying cowardly “kingpins” in charge? Can’t you read? The rules CLEARLY state the IBOAI has approval authority ONLY for arbitration changes.

Since I have been purchasing Q/A products, and have attempted to retail products, I have made more money in other areas of my life from what I have learned from the systems of books, tapes/CD’s, and meetings. It hasn’t just been the money. —- This makes no sense. You said you made more money in other areas in your life from what you learned from the system, but it isn’t just about the money.

I didn’t sign up with Amway for just the money. —- Neither did I, I also signed up for the time and security the money would provide. I also liked the people, but don’t you think the main reason to do a business should be for the money? Just like signing up for a team is to become more involved with a sport, or joining a church to become more involved with God?

I have felt the last 7 months that Altior/Quixtar/Amway has left the principles that I have defended for so long. —- Like what?

This last post leads me to believe in Q/A more. I haven’t had to go to Orrin for that information, Q/A has provided it.

If this legal defense fund is just for Orrin, which is what you are saying, I would be surprised. I thought it was for all the others Q/A was going after. —- SURPRISE!!! The money is for Orrin, and all the others he has misled down his path to destruction.
Tex Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 7:15 am
quitesimply #11,

That must be good stuff you’re smoking. Orrin’s got you hook, line, and sinker.

Anon #12,

Maybe to buy a bigger one?

rdknyvr #14,

They aren’t allowed to sell the magic juice until Orrin’s 6 months plus at least 45 days is up. I can see Orrin now, “Don’t sign up, wait for me, I’m your leader!” This is probably the source of the legal action against Mona Vie, Quixtar wants to find out if/when Orrin signed up, or if he has his spot “reserved”, so others can sign up now and he can be their upline later. Most of his people are broke and the few that can hold their nose and believe this is Orrin’s first step to his “Walmart on the Internet Solution”, can’t wait for him to be their upline, they have bills to pay. Meanwhile, Orrin is flying back and forth between his various houses, eating lunch with ministers he hopes will make him look better, writing ridiculous stories about how he is like our Founding Fathers, etc.
Tex Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 7:22 am
john #15,

I suggest you read the entire Orrin California lawsuit. There was MUCH more than the issues you noted. However, I agree with the rest of your post.

Clint #16,

You’ll also find Mona Vie won’t say how much acai juice is in their drink. There have been hundreds, if not thousands, of these types of companies come and go over the decades. Mona Vie rose faster because of the internet, and they will probably fall faster because of the internet.

Jerad #17,

Yes, just go to Orrin’s blog.
DaveC Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 7:23 am
I, as a former IBO, will say this just once, knowing full well that it will have no effect on you. However the truth must be said and you cannot change it. You at Alticor/Amway/Quixtar or whatever you are calling yourselves these days are totally beneath contempt. Your are not worthy to lick Orrin Woodward’s boots, much unlace them. I am not claiming godhood or anything like it for Orrin, but I will say he is a man of integrity, which those at Alticor/Amway/Quixtar are definitely not. Time and the truth will definitely prove who is right and it is definitely not Alticor/Amway/Quixtar.
DaveC
Jeffrey Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 7:23 am
There is a real simple solution to all of this. Get rid of the tool and function systems so that unethical people will not be able to take advantage of those in their group in the name of “training.” Things like this is another reason why the Customer Volume Rule needs to apply to EVERYBODY, all the way up to Crown Ambassador 60 FAA Points. When some of these Diamonds and Crowns find out that they have to get out of their ivory tower and have to go retail, it will send many of them packing. This is a retail sales business with the ability to be your own best customer and having the ability to expand by sponsoring others who do the same. It is not a sponsoring and self-use business with the ability to build an illegal pyramid from motivational materials that cannot be marketed to an end retail customer. To say so is a gross distortion of the Sales and Marketing Plan. The systems are what has caused nearly all the problems this company has, including in the UK. People get dependent on a system that does not work, so consequently, they don’t make any money. That’s what this whole Woodward things is about–his big income from his tool and function business that was a distortion of the Sales and Marketing plan. Let him go–goodbye and good night.
Tex Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 8:18 am
kjteam #18,

Why should “corporate communications” have to tell their name(s)? Make you nervous? How could Orrin get the attention he craves if he didn’t use his name? Are you high?

The problem is Orrin didn’t want to wait 6 months, so he filed a lawsuit that has now backfired on him, resulting in an at least 45 day extension to his 6 months. I think it should continue until he makes a public apology and promises to never disparage A/Q again. You have always been free to pursue another networking opportunity after 6 months. What’s your point?

Oh yeah, they’re shaking in their little elfin’ boots, as Orrin (Alfred E. Neuman (What-Me Worry?) Woodward publicly begs for money. By the way, it’s Dateline NBC, ABC has 20/20. Just didn’t want to have any “half-truths” floating around.

Uh oh, you agree with me on the tool issue? If you had been paying attention, I have also been critical of A/Q regarding the tool scam, so you shouldn’t be confused. What do you mean by, “I don’t agree with you [Tex] on the making money part, or that fact that the information is not needed,, but that “control” issue that was forced upon IBO’s that did not agree with tools.?”

We were called communists if we didn’t agree. —- If you didn’t agree to what?

This starts from Rich Devos, down to Dexter Yeager, and so forth. —- You need to review Rich’s “Directly Speaking” recordings again.

However, Quixtar/Amway were very much on board with this. It was very profitable for both at the expense of the rank and file downline. —- I agree with this part.

Board members sit behind closed doors thinking of ways to “Spin” high prices, to “Spin” tools, to use the very loayalty created in their downline as a way of manipulating and controling. So now we need to be also controlled by Quixtar lawyers. —- No, we need to put the lying cowardly “kingpins” out of business, then take a look at product pricing.

I can take some action though. I think I will take the names off of the Quixtar’s LOS, that they built, (this is sarcasim) and put it to a petition of my congresional leaders calling for an investigation of harasssment of myself, my downline and my leaders. I will print off blogs sponsered by Alticor communications and show to my congressman the unnecessary harrasment by corporate lawyers.
It is an election year. —- Go for it.
Tex Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 8:21 am
Brad #19,

My understanding is Silvers and above are auto-renewed, as there was an issue many years ago about a high level pin not renewing, and losing their business. If you’re Silver or above, Q assumes you want to stay in unless you state otherwise. Sounds fair to me. We’re adults, if you want to quit, then quit.

The biggest frauds are the lying cowardly “kingpins”. Time will tell whether the documents are real or not.
Doug Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 8:22 am
(And a recent Georgia legal document circulating online was never entered. Therefore it does not carry legal force – a fact Mr. Woodward’s associates, unsurprisingly, failed to point out.)

Hmmm, then what does this mean.

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-gandce/case_no-2:2008cv00044/case_id-149479/
Tex Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 8:26 am
Josh #20,

There is no rule against TALKING to another MLM, there is a rule against JOINING another MLM. So your “theory” theory doesn’t hold water.

quitesimply #21,

…just wait to see how much cash moves from Orrin …yes…we are following the lawsuits/arbitration as much as we can…you ain’t seen nothing yet!
2coachu Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 8:28 am
You (the author of this bog) in my opion, are a pitiful excuse for a leader. Do you not realize that your comments only hurt those folks that still believe in Quixtar/Amway? By inference your words reflect poorly on the very company you seek to defend. Do you not see that this sort of behavior only emboldens Team? I for one have gone from a reluctant resignee from Quixtar to an ardent and tenacious supporter of Orrin Woodward. Not just because of his words and deeds, which in your arrogance you mock, but because of your (the company you defend)words and deeds.
I hate this divisiveness, but if it is then, so be it. You will not prevail.
onemill Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Tex #54:

1. Alticor is scared? They are winning virtually every court decision. Orrin is publicly begging for money and hallucinating on his blog. It’s clear to me that Orrin “Alfred E. Neuman (What-Me Worry?) Woodward is the one who is scared.

Tex. WHY? WHY? WHY? Must you make personal attacks. Even if your points were correct or logical, you take away from their effectiveness by playing the game “middle school” style. Just stop it and stay on point. (Unless of course your purpose is to waste time).

I’m certain Orrin’s concerns are for those who want to venture away from Q/A and have to be subjected to the serious financial burdens that are associated with Arbitration and other dispute processes. I dont see why this should be considered a demonstration of being “scared.”

Why don’t they just let it go? Because OW caused damage to the business, and his current actions continue to cause damage. What happened to “just go team.”? Quixtar wants TEAM to go, but they also have to follow the rules on their way out. There’s a lot more to this issue than LOS tracking. Get a clue.

What damage did Orrin himself cause?

2. The immaturity of Alticor management? They’re doing the right thing, rubbing Orrin’s face in his own “mess” until he cries “uncle.” They CAN’T stoop lower than Orrin, he set the “standard” that can’t be exceeded. At least he’s good for something.

You have only proven Clints point with this comment. What is the end result that Alticor is looking to accomplish? To ruin anyone who wants to venture out away from them financially? Why dont they put that on a mission statement somewhere? “If you ever dare leave us, we’ll do OUR best to rub your face in it! Free Enterprise FOREVER!”

3. Alticor wants to enforce their rules, and Orrin & Co. got in the way. How do you KNOW Orrin obeyed the 6 month or 2 year rules? He didn’t have a very good record of following them before, what makes you think he has started now? The contract was extended because Orrin made a BIG mess, and it’s taking longer than normal to clean it up. It takes a while to clean up a mess when you’re using Orrin’s face as a mop.

“middle school” again. “Oh yeah, my Dad can beat up your Dad!” What rules did they NOT follow before?
nonprofit Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 10:50 am
The word for today is OUT. I’d like to dedicate this word to Orrin Woodward and the Team. It exemplifies all they’ve done in the face of the venom spewing Alticor dynasty, and their puppet “Tex”.Oh, and let’s not forget their “little” people, you know like Jim Z, Rdknyvr, Josh, White Knight, Dwight, and finally SoonerIBO. These “magnificent seven” are the lonely voices of Alticor reason. I’d like to nominate Tex his supporting cast for critic of the year. Maybe we can erect the first statue ever for critics in their honor.
Now back to the word of the day. Let me first point you to:
http://orrinwoodward.blogharbor.com/blog
So you have the reference I’m using. Alticor and critics you’ve been………
Out-read
Out-classed
Out-smarted
Out-blogged
Out-lasted
Out-done
Out-maneuvered
Out-witted
This whole thing is basically Out-of your control. They took your game with your deck of cards at your poker table and made you look foolish. Your Outlandish behavior is taking it’s toll!
Atta boy Orrin!
OUTSTANDING!!!!!!!
G Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 10:51 am
White Knight #45

“I agree with Dwight post #38.

Gosh, ow comes in to speak or one of his cohorts and then next thing you know ow is in the suite with the larger pins and viola they start using his materials. Why plug in IBO’s not in your group? Sigh.”

Apparently, you’re not aware of a change of LOA affiliation (Support Materials supplier) compared with LOS (sponsor) - for real eye opening experiences, explore how may times this has been done BY CORP without support of sponsor.

Not saying you may not have valid feelings, but you’re barking up wrong tree to suggest it’s unilateral on part of BSM providers - nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, BSM supplier outside LOS is restricteed from actively soliciting - does not stop the LOS leadership from exploring opportunities, however. It’s all contained in the RoC and your BSMAA Agreement (which everyone reads in it’s entirety, obviously)
Randy and Lara Stamps Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 10:59 am
We may have failed with Amway…we may have failed with Quixtar but Team offered the truth that set us free. Don’t believe everything you read…when they own the information - they can bend it all they want. As imigrants to Team, I can tell you, we are winning now and the future is bright. Don’t be afraid to go th the source for the truth.
Dream Warrior Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
I just have one question then, WHAT ARE YOU SO AFRAID OF?!?! The decision made in Georgia is going to make you realize that TEAM should have been left alone! A Revolution has sparked the truth to come out all over the country….and it’s not from your side! Let TEAM exit peacefully please, and lets all go on with our lives. Unless Alticor humiliation is the goal in this instance. That has already shown itself. Save some face and do something good for a change. Knowing the business practices shown lately, I probably won’t even get a reply on this. This could all be over and set aside. Too bad this situation couldn’t be settled peacefully. Maybe we can still be friends. Have a good day!
Josh Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
What is funny, is that just because I agree with Q/A’s position(s) over TEAM’s, Team-sters assume that
1) Tex and me are buddies—We are not.
2) That I work and reside in Grand Rapids at the corporation.

Next, regarding rumors about TEAM leaving before August, where not rumors. It was fact.

Several meetings that friends of mine attended, put on by Team, heard several times, “Quixtar is just a supplier, and we are free to change suppliers anytime” and “We at TEAM worked the exclusive deal with XS energy” Fortunately I was able to speak with them before TEAM talked to them. So they had a leg up on how the partnership worked. (oh BTW they were not looking when I spoke to them before, and they definitely weren’t looking after TEAM)

Again this was WAAAY before August ‘07.

Anyway, this whole back and forth is indeed boring and fruitless. It is stupid of the corp to keep posting blogs like this, and it is just as stupid for all of us to comment and debate about it.
Josh Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Hahaha,

Magnificent 7. Amazing. Truly funny and shows either you are a newb to this blog, or have a very short memory. Either way, not good for you.

Because someone has an opposing viewpoint, doesn’t make us bad or that we all agree with everything.

Tex re#20

Ok, agreed on paper. However, remember Vietnam, Vietcong were allowed to caravan AA guns, setup AA guns, and target our aircraft.
We were not allowed to engage them until fired upon.

Some rules need to be thrown out the window, or at least confronted, before someone sets up a checkmate before the match even starts.
Eric (AEM) Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Jeffery 97
“It is not a sponsoring and self-use business with the ability to build an illegal pyramid from motivational materials that cannot be marketed to an end retail customer”.

I am direct fulfillment from Team. I do not get a deal on anything I buy from them. I do not profit at all from any of the flow of products they have. I do not work for Team in any capacity, I don’t own any part of Team. I am a ‘end retail customer’ of Team’s. There are many people who buy from Team in my position, they to are end retail customers. Whoever told you that the tool business’ are pyramids because they don’t have outside retail customers either lied to you or is wrong. To clarify the point, when I had a Quixtar number and was plugging into Team training, I was not a part of Orrin’s Quixtar business at all, and I was never a part of the Team business either. I just plugged into the events they had and the system they offered. I was in the Quixtar business, not the Team business.

“People get dependent on a system that does not work, so consequently, they don’t make any money”.

The thing that determines wither or not somebody makes money is not if they plugged into a system. It’s wither or not they follow a system. Most people do a very poor job of following a system, they see the 10 things that need to be done and do 5 or 6 and then complain that it doesn’t work. It’s like saying “ok I went to college, bought all the books they said, went to all the classes and seminars they said to go to, now where is my money”? that is the approach most people have to it. That’s why they don’t make money.
Jack Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Tex,

I did a quick search on your comments posts, and found 34 posts from the Alticor blog, with an average of 10-20 posts per topic. Averaging out to roughly 300+ comment posts.

http://www.l.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=safari&rls=en-us&as_qdr=all&q=Tex+Says%3A+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fmedia.alticorblogs.com&btnG=Search

This brings to my mind what Mother Teresa always said: “I was once asked why I don’t participate in anti-war demonstrations. I said that I will never do that, but as soon as you have a pro-peace rally, I’ll be there.”

It does humans no good to be anti anything…even if that anything is hurful. It is pointless to fight against darkness.

What we can do is be pro - pro-enlightenment, pro-awakening, pro-ascension, pro-growth, pro-now. All that is required is positivity…light.

It is imperative and incumbent upon us as a species to trust that when we embrace the light, the rest will be handled.

I respect you for your efforts and with your dedication and energy, you could accomplish some amazing things…thats not sarcastic, im being serious.

Thanks

Jack
Eric (AEM) Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Josh,
I’m not sure where you are getting your information from, but Team did not have any plans to leave before August 07. The leadership of Team that sat on the IBOAI may have realized that leaving would turn into their only viable option before August. Were you ever even part of Team? It’s funny all the people that know so little and think they know so much.
Jeff Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Dear Corporate Communications

I wish you would identify yourself so I could personally thank you for this blog post. I have been an IBO since 1988. I have seen many changes and have been very successful in the business. As a former Emerald, imagine the trouble I have had with my family and friends believing that I was leaving my IBO business behind. None of them could believe that a company like Quixtar or Amway could actually be doing what I was telling them.

My friends and family were very loyal supporting my business. They were also committed to supporting a company who they believed was an upstanding example for the rest of corporate america to follow. My friends and family have not only all had very strong ditto’s, they have supported causes like Easter Seals and Christain Charities that Rich Devos has promoted.

This blog post has sealed the deal. I have been notified that my father, brother and various family members sent resignation letters in this week. They have also encouraged their fellow friends and family to follow suit due to seeing how a corporation could attack an individual. Most of these people have not been active builders, but strong consumers of products. They were not involved in any of this mud slinging until they started getting emails from Quixtar corporate.

This blog post has been the perfect example to explain the motivation behind the countless emails from corporate and scared upline telling them not to quit to compete in another business.

I got this question from a brother in law. Does compete mean that Quixtar does not want me to buy from other places? What a message to send to the field.

My family and friends were not building the business full time like I was previously. They were all finding it hard to understand the changes I was saying that I was seeing. Like not allowing people to resign or holding people in a non-compete that many people did not know was there. Imagine the family and friends disbelief when I showed them a letter from Rule and Conduct saying that they were not allowing my wife to resign. This letter came a full sixty days after she resigned.

I have not been the best communicator to my family and friends about the changes that have been made at “corporate”. I have done my best to tell them why I did no longer felt comfortable staking my future of my family on my IBO business. Not only did I show them the IBO leaders that I have respected and that were promoted to me by Quixtar. I showed my family and friends that those leaders I respected had now left the business.

I have voted with my feet and left it to my family and friends to decide for themselves. Your blog post now has confirmed the bad vibes or feelings I claimed to feel were true. My family and friends now feel them too.

Thanks for the assistance,

Jeff
John Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Orrin is the king of all con men. His role model must have been Glenn Turner.
Tony F Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Come on Quiksand…just stop and let us go. I fthings were going so well for you, you wouldn’t have time to bash TEAM. Grow up, take your toys and GO HOME!!!!!!
Tex Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
George #22,

Is this George of the jungle? ….look out for that tree! SMACK!!! No wonder your post didn’t make any sense to a normal IBO, hope you get over your concussion soon.

Cheryl #23,

It’s spelled Alticor. Since you were in the business, why not just cut out the middle man and make out the check to QBI? Thank you.

I wouldn’t call the CA lawsuit, not speaking out about the other lawsuits, refusing to go into arbitration (the source of the 45 day extension?) as positive. They didn’t tell the entire TEAM to leave, they only terminated their “leadership”, because they had broken the same rules over and over for a half dozen years and didn’t want to “try again” when given the chance. After all you are the ones that told team to leave. True Leadership has NOT been exemplified by Orrin.
John Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
I vote with my dollars.

Principles learned through TEAM: be a better husband, be a better leader at work, be a better friend, be a better relative, how to eliminate debt without increasing income (Imagine that! I never needed to sign up with Quixtar to make more money to pay off my debt! I could have just used the debt snowball!), etc.

Principles that Alticor owners have taught me: none.

TEAM gets my dollars. Alticor owners do not.
neutral Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
“If you have no followers, you’re merely going for a walk”. Who is gaining followers in this situation? To my knowledge, more big leaders have joined Orrin & Co. in the past year than any other “leader” in the Amway/Quixtar corporation. This is because Orrin has not forgot the fundamental that life is built on Relationships. If you are currently working with someone that is only in a relationship with you because of a financial gain, it is in your best interest to end the relationship because as soon as their gain is lost, the relationship will follow. This is my opinion and the extent of my relationship with Quixtar. This is why I chose freely to follow Orrin & Co.
NOTE: I have never personally met Orrin, I have never met the founders of Quixtar. I choose to follow one over the other because of their character, convictions, heart and desires. If you are currently with a company you are not satisfied with, or do not understand what Team has done, I encourage you to seek first to understand.
Quit reading blogs and contact someone who has success in what you’re looking at. Get both sides of the story, make sure you understand both sides, and then make your decision.
The truth will set you free. Nothing else. Thank you Team.
Shannon Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
Thanks for the free advertising of the IBO fund. If the Amway lovers don’t see the writing on the wall now, God help them. Don’t you see people? Just a year ago Orrin was praised for the success with TEAM. Now posts like this. Sueing at every turn trying to keep him from moving on, which is what you said you wanted him to do in the first place. This is what happens when a company has no checks and balances and someone disagrees. YOU COULD BE NEXT. The fund is for the little people who can’t fight big bad Amway who need to! This is what fueled this post, and what Alticor is afraid of. The community who’s AGAINST SCAMWAY! Keep putting posts like this, cause it makes our community more fired up!

Free 3/15/08 (Thank GOD!)
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 12:51 am
#24 The Closer,

Funny how you didn’t name a single, specific “untruth.” All I can say is you better know who you’re following and what is it they are scamming you for tools! Time to close up the lying cowardly “kingpins’” shop, Closer.

As quoted by Tex, “all feel like saying Just GO, TEAM more for reading this blog!!”

#25 Bill Smith,

Leaders take responsibility and find solutions while losers point fingers and place blame. What position has Mis-leader taken? —- Break rules, try to break more on his way out, and start an illegal pyramid (which is actually an illegal lawsuit to begin with). After doing that, the position he has taken is “bend over and spead ‘em”. I do like your initials, Bill Smith. Very appropriate.

“In the Superior Court of White County, the Honorable Chief Judge David E. Barrett ruled that the non-competition clause of Quixtar’s contract was “invalid” and will not be subject to any arbitration. —- I happen to agree with the judge, and think the 6 month/2 year rule should apply only to IBO’s who reach a certain pin level, such as 2,500, 4,000, or Silver.

“Amway was officially sent packing from the United States 5th Circuit Court of Appeals. Amway, after having their arbitration clause declared “illusory” and “unenforceable,” in the Morrison v Amway case, filed a petition on 2/20/08 requesting a rehearing on the matter. That request was denied today” (March 6th, 2008). —- I understand that was not an issued court document. Even if it was, the scenario has changed and the rules have changed since then, so the applicability to new arbitration procedures is quite limited. I suggest you take your BS and get a clue, BS.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 12:55 am
Utah #26,

I doubt Doug or Steve have authored any of the posts.

Rob is still in that position, and I hope he, Doug and Steve are in support of the Just GO, TEAM and other threads. If you had an ounce of sense and read the article, you would know it was directed at the TEAM “leadership”, not all TEAM IBO’s. Get a grip.

I doubt you will get anyone at Media Info to comment, that’s not the purpose of this forum. The forum is intended mostly for open discussion on the winning (my) side of the facts, and people on the losing side (your) of the lack of facts. Keep posting, I’m having a blast.
Utah Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 12:55 am
Tex #99,

I would think that those Silver and up, who not knowing the current automatic silver and up renewal rule, would be allowed to call or write the Corporation and clarify the date of inactivity.

An IBO that thought they were resigning by not renewing should be able to straighten this out, and the Corporation, who, according to the IBOAI post was following the rules, should still cooperate.

I believe it is very bad policy to renew someone, not immediately notify them of the renewal, and then refuse to correct the date based on the intent. The “Hotel California” comments on other blogs are out of frustration with this policy.

These current rules have now been posted on two blogs crying foul.

I trust that IBOs, less than silver, who had dropped the automatic renewal were not renewed without asking, and that the corporation is willing to take into account intent on the rest.

Just because certain former IBOAI board members knew about the policy, doesn’t really matter. I believe people that didn’t renew did so based on their own decision, and based on their confusion, were not following the instruction of former board members.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 12:58 am
White Knight #27,

Well put.

John Doe #28,

After the famous lawsuit, I didn’t think OW & Co. could stoop any lower. But I now see there’s no limit to how pathetic and unethical they are willing to stoop.

If OW & Co. was seriously wanting to fix problems within the systems, they could have started with a different approach to the tool scam.

I have mounds of evidence to prove it. Not hearsay, actual evidence of a high level accredited Crown blatantly breaking quixtar rules. And yet Orrin is accused of breaking the rules. —- Then spill the beans. We could use more lying cowardly “kingpins” being examined. OW & Co. was seen by me breaking the rules.

I think raiding is the least of the issues, and I don’t recall that issue even being in his termination letter.

This isn’t rumor or opinion. I’ve witnessed it for myself and so have thousands of other people. —- Then tell the facts, not wild and unknown accusations.

It’s a shame, because, without the current people in the IBO leadership positions, the lying cowardly “kingpins” may have contributed positively to a great company.

Now it seems that the only was to stop this abuse is to have criminal charges brought against individual people within the various tool scam systems. I think when some of these proceedings start coming out in public, people will be amazed at the levels the lying cowardly “kinpins” stooped to, and they will be highly offended that they were so misled by the IBO “leadership” for so long.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 1:19 am
nonprofit #29,

I find it curious that you don’t understand why Quixtar chose to launch a personal, fact based attack on Orrin Woodward on the Internet.

Is this not the same company who was trying to drag anonymous bloggers into court for disparaging remarks against them? —- No, it’s the same company that wanted to find out if there were legitimate links between the bloggers and Orrin & Co., which would have been in violation of a court order.

Don’t the same rules apply to you? —- Which rules?

You think you’d have learned how bad this looks in court with your “Just Go Team” post. I’ve been told hurting people hurt others, Is this painful to you? Did the Georgia decision hit a nerve? —- The “Just GO, TEAM” post isn’t even in court, if anyone gets upset about the post they can’t read for comprehension, and the Georgia “decision” (there is still discussion how official and final the decision is) is NOT something that is insurmountable.

Since you brought it up, could you answer us this? What secrets were you and the IBOA board keeping from us that you don’t want made public? —- Yeah, they’re going to put their secrets on a public blog. Were you born stupid, or did you learn it?

I don’t know about others but I’m kind of suspicious of anyone who hides things from me. —- ALL large corporations “hide secrets”. If you’re upset about this, start with your upline, they are lying cowards who hide the bulk of their income from you, via the tool scam.

I’ve noticed from other posts you’ve went to great lengths to keep tool profits a secret too. Why is that? —- News Flash! The tool profits aren’t a secret any longer.

What else don’t you want us to know? —- Your two digit IQ, or is it down to single digits?

Why do you constantly hide these proceedings in secret arbitration? Is the court of public opinion to harsh? Is it true your legal team is inept in the courtroom? Has years of hiding all of your litigation in arbitration dulled their skills and courtroom etiquette? —- Again, many companies do this for obvious reasons. Grow up.

There are so many unanswered questions. You’ve made quite a few claims here, are you prepared to back them up with evidence in court? —- They don’t need court, they have arbitration, remember? I know it’s been a long time (see previous paragraph), but at least be a consistent fool.

They use subpoenas when appropriate. And it’s spelled Libel. As in, “If you lie about what someone did, you are liable to be charged with libel.

Please, do send another check. Skip the middle man and make the check out to “QBI”. Thanks. Plus, it isn’t going to a court room, it’s going into arbitration. The more money Orrin & Co. has the more they can be sued for, go for it! Arbitration won’t see the light of day, so forget about a jury of peers. Go ahead and call an investigative news show, see how far you get before the door is slammed in your face. They already brought it, that’s why Orrin is publicly begging for money.
Ethan Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 1:59 am
I read about 30 posts here and got tired of Tex referring to rules, so if these questions have already been answered, my bad. I’m very curious though. I was in Quixtar for a few years and made probably $60 in my whole as an “owner”. But my loyalty was to my upline who is a friend of mine, not to some ridiculous company who sells overpriced products. What I’m understanding now is that if I want to go attempt to make money in another business where i’ll be called an “owner” (which is obviously an insult to the word “owner” considering how little ownership of your downline is respected when the actual owner flexes its muscles) I will be sued until I’m broke and homeless by a major company worth billions of dollars because they want to protect their business. It just doesn’t sound like the American Way to me. It sounds more like the tyrannical way. Maybe I could get a Van Andel or a Devoss to explain to me why I, or even Orrin Woodward, is such a threat if Amway/Quixtar is a decent business. And why are the Quixtar rules more important than just letting people compete in a free enterprise market as Mr. Yager is so famous for endorsing? I would assume if Quixtar was confident about their business they wouldn’t have a problem with a less viable or illegal business pulling their “highly successful” “ibo’s” away. I mean, who would ever leave a great opportunity to pursue one that was less lucrative or even illegal? It just looks like morality and respect have taken a backseat to profit and pride. I wonder if the oh-so-Christian owners have checked their Bible on their attitude toward Team and the associated humans.
Oh, and I wanted to comment on someone’s comment that I read that said something about TEAM apologizing and agreeing not to disparage Am/Quix anymore. How can a company attempt to enforce “rules” that impinge on someone’s Constitutional right to say whatever they desire?
quixtarisacult Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 2:24 am
You have your nerve pointing the finger at another. You use tactics right out of the Joseph Goebbels playbook.

You have for nearly 50 years operated a business in which the Devos and Van Andel Dons have enriched themselves while nearly 99% of those that become distributors loose their money. You simply have been allowed to run a money extracting business.

Your IBOs are so badly deluded by cult programming that they believe they are “independent business men and women” but are actually your “customers”. What a fraud you are, and what a fraud the tool kingpins are.

Where are all the sales to non IBO customers?
You operate an illegal business on two fronts.

I don’t agree with Orrin Woodward either since he operated as a tool kingpin for years with you. I admire his David like Courage to stand up to your Goliath pyramid.

The duped recruited need to wake up and leave this worst of all American Scams. Have you a big crack in your Humpty Dumpty Shell? Are you about ready to topple over in Great Britain?

You are not really going to be able to keep a lid on this can of worms that are now out. I don’t agree with Orrin Woodward, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Jay and Rich had some great ideas, too bad greed and corruption have besmirched the company they started.

quixtarisacultintervention.com
JimZ Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Our Orrin,
Who art in Michigan
Hallowed be thy name
TEAM Kingdom come
TEAM will be done
On Earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day our daily MonAvie fruit juice
And our leadership lit pack
As we sue those who trespass against us
And lead us not into Quixtar
But deliver us from Amway
Amen
Marnie Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Does anyone use their brains anymore? I have two questions:

Can anyone imagine any other company posting negative blogs about ex-employees or ex-distributors? Like Budweiser blogging about one of their top-level independent distributors, or Disney blogging about Michael Eisner.

Also, why is it that the MonaVie Distributor Application requires you to certify that if you were ever affiliated with Amway, you are not breaking any of their rules? According to people on this blog, Amway rules are pretty “standard” in the MLM world. So why don’t I have to certify about my prior affiliation with Mary Kay, or Shaklee, or Xango? Could it be because Amway has their head up their b___ so far they can’t see how un-free enterprise they are?

Who would have thought that by signing a single page form in 1998, I would be giving away my freedoms for the rest of my life?

My guess is it will be sometime in 2009 that Amway will subpeona MonaVie for all their distributor apps in 2008 to make sure no one violated the non-compete. No wonder they call you QSSR.
Shannon Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Nonprofit #104

That was the BEST POST! You need an award for creativity! I’m still giggling! OUT-asight!!!
DLoaner Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
I have learned from a CWPF who is high up in the TEAM organization that the combined legal fees of the many IBO’s under attack from the Q/A legal team is over $600K per month! Q/A has a history of “papering to death” anyone who tries to appose them.

What I was told is that Q/A is filing inch thick complaints/actions/motions/lawsuits in courts all over the country. All of these complaints have to be contested so that they aren’t won by default. The major expense is in paying the required legal manpower to keep up with all the filings.

Luckily the TEAM has a 100% profit sharing plan that has the capacity to absorb this huge expense and still pay bonuses to the TEAM. I wasn’t shocked to see that Q/A has tried to position themselves has the victim of baseless lawsuits. Their assertion is ridiculous.

I was recently in a meeting with a high level owner/executive of a competing MLM. He used to be a direct with Q/A. He was quite surprised and saddened by the behavior of Q/A. He had always respected the role Q/A had in legitimizing our industry. But he had a huge problem with the compensation plan and how limited it is. So he started his own company with a fair compensation plan. Imagine getting 50% from the corp. That would be great! As it is we only got about 26% from Q/A. All TEAM wanted was a fair plan that gave all IBO’s a chance to succeed.

Shame on you Q/A. You have lost touch with your entrepreneurial genesis. You are now just a regime trying to hang on the power that you are loosing on a daily basis. Q/A could have taken over the world. But instead will become a footnote in history.
Renshi Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
If all the Orrinites and Team-sters are so free and happy, why are they still posting here and arguing with Amway?

What good does it do them? What do these TEAM people think they will gain by wasting their time here?

Amway has their perception of the issue, and they seem to think that the rank and file members of TEAM are victims of Orrin’s manipulativeness. While the rank and file members of TEAM believe Orrin’s view that he is a victim of the evil Amway corporation’s legal machine. They seem to be willing to ignore the fact that Orrin’s side was the first one to file a lawsuit.
kjteam Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
“This transformed new business model is not “our Daddy’s Oldsmobile.” We are not going back to Amway. We are moving forward to “Amway Global,”

A business model that will make the world sit up and take notice. Together we will transform this business, partner with the Corporation with even greater enthusiasm, and establish a template for decades to come!
Working together, the best is yet to come,

Bill Hawkins
2008 Chairman
IBOAI Board of Directors”

Let see if this is true:
OLD Amway: New Global Amway:

structure with 6 - 4 - 2
O O O O O O
O O O O SAME!
O O
You find 6, those 6 find 4
and those 4 find 2
ou’re a North American Diamond.

Had Sa8, Nutrilite w/double x, SAME
LOC, Satinique, Aritistry

Double X retail over
70.00 for 30 day supply SAME
Ibo cost just over 50.00
for 30 day supply

CD’s 6.00, Come’s 2 aweek SAME
Book of the Month

No matter how big your group get’s
you cannot get a bigger cut SAME
of the tool money then you upline.

IBOA Board fees: 9.00 SAME
You get stuck 5 in depth SAME
Start a new Leg.

What exactly is the New Model?????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????
kjteam Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Tex:
I’m wondering if you ever heard of Harriet Tubman. She was the most famous of “Conductors” of the Underground railroad.
You know a group or class of people that were held in bondage by rules and laws. Guess she shoud have followed the rules.

I’m wondering why you hate Orrin Woodward and Team so much, if your not apart of A/Q.
Let see: Orrin created a “profit Sharing” system, where no one got a special deal. Orrin created away for everyone to be part of the team through team approach. And yet you continue to blast Orrin and Team when there is a whole slew of Diamonds out there still with Alticor and still raking in the big bucks with the tool system. Just so you know who I’m talking about I’ll name a few:

Lennon Ledbetter
Bill Britt

Ed Courtney
Brad DeHaven
Dan Smith
Merritt Weise
Jim McAnamey
Roland Hughes
Columbo DiSalvatore
Gregg Howard
Bob Howard
Any Argyria
Scott & MJ Michael
Brett Deimler
Jerry Bogus
Bert Gulick
George Halsey
Bill Galvin
Carrol & Norma Rea
Bill Kerr
Jerry Meadows
Scott Holland

I don’t envy you, look at all the work you have ahead of you.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Dwight #38,

While I agree with your main points, you are a bit confused. As far as I know, Orrin didn’t “recruit” other groups, the other groups came to him. However, on their way out, Orrin & Co. made a big mess of a lot of groups, including groups that had NOTHING to do with TEAM.

Kim Podbilski #39,

Alticor willing to take all points of view, unlike Orrin, the IBOAI, IBOFB, qblog, and other blogs. This should tell you something about your “leader” and the other blogs. He isn’t worth following, and they aren’t worth taking the trouble to post on.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
IBO To Go #50,

I’ve already clarified my position, and don’t agree with him.

Doug #51,

Maybe we can help you, what was your decision?

IBO To Go #52,

Cut out the middle man, make your checks out to QBI.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
JimZ #61,

Well said, again.

Steve #63,

Cut out the middle man, and make your check out to QBI. Bub-bye.

BS #64,

Do you realize how insignificant that lawsuit is? It is ONLY for Georgia, can be overturned in Georgia and/or other states, does virtually NOTHING for TEAM, as most have sat out their 6 months, or will before a court would take up their case, and the rules can easily be modified to apply the rule to those who are in the higher PV levels. YOU LOSE, BS.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Wondering #76,

When will this ever get better? After all it seems that TEAM is not going to return. —- It will get better soon. Who would want TEAM to return?

If A/Q/A knows that they will not return, then any further action should be seen to do what? —- Sue Orrin & Co. for every penny they can, and discourage others who are thinking about doing something similar to the stunt Orrin pulled.

Does continued discussion only hurt IBOs? Is there a redeeming value in all of this? —- Nope, it helps us. Yes, see above.

How come there is no longer a link from Q to this blog? —- I don’t think there ever was one.

Nor could I find a link from Q zone to this blog? —- I don’t think there ever was one there, either.

Does anyone know where it is? Has it disappeared? Is it to contain the same bloggers and prevent the word from spreading? —- You found it, so it can’t be too hard to find.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
FORMER IBO Steve #77,

Bub-bye, don’t let the door hit your backside on your way out.

Jeremy #78,

Who said the non-compete is infinite? You brought that up, not me. Correction, Q/A ALLOWED them to operate a tool scam. The lying cowardly “kingpins” could have reduced their tool prices and made most of their profit from A/Q, but didn’t do that. Jeremy, Jeremy, Jeremy, that’s why. Exxon isn’t allowed to hide profit like the lying cowardly “kingpins” do. Like the Georgia one? The one that apparently hasn’t even been entered? The Morrison one? Because these actions pre-dated the arbitration rules? Get a grip.

For the umpteenth time, I don’t want Orrin’s “help”. Just GO, TEAM.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Utah #79,

The blogs have different purposes. This one is designed to torture Orrinites.

Wondering #80,

Orrin, and anyone who gives to his “legal defense” fund, otherwise known as his “give me money, I don’t want to give up my multiple homes I bought with tool scam money” fund.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
john #81,

It means the same in any other business. You have rules to follow, including rules to follow on your way out the door.

Truth #82,

I have more than a suspicion you are wrong. In fact, I know you’re wrong. Why would you think I am an IBOAI board member, I have been banned from their site and label them as they are, a bunch of lying cowardly “kingpins.”

Nor is a board member is telling me the IBOAI board secrets. Maybe they ought to look into your stupid mind. Your guess I’m a non elected board member that has a big pin and a small amount of people is also wrong. I don’t have to fake it at all. I’m not attending Opens right now. I would have you wear a shirt that said “My name is “Truth”, Please Kick Me Hard in the Backside”. Probably no response, just laughter.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Joe #83,

I’m enjoying this new post, as long as it drives people like you crazy.

Marnie #84,

Yes, one lawsuit, but it was a doozy. He also needs to make a public apology, give Q all of his money, and promise to never disparage them again.

How many have you launched against Orrin, the TEAM, and others for being associated with the TEAM? Seven, ten, how many? —- As many as it takes to clean up Orrin & Co’s. mess.

And how many against bloggers who voice their opinions? And what about the subpeonas sent to 62 people to produce every document over four years in your futile attempt to prove your allegations of rule violations? —- Again, as many as it takes.

I have never, ever heard of any company, let alone a multi-billion dollar company, wage such a low-life smear campaign. Keep smearing, folks. At some point, Orrin will be allowed to talk. It is pretty clear that that is what scares you. —- You must have missed the P&G lawsuit. You know, the one caused by your TEAM “hero”, Randy Haugen?

Good grief, do you people have NOTHING else to do? Oh yeah, with all the IBOs that left–and more are lining up to leave–I guess you do have too much time on your hands. Go get a hobby, will you? —- We have plenty else to do, but first need to clean up the mess Orrin made. Thanks for your advice, but we don’t respect you, so we obviously won’t be following it.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
gone,baby,gone #85,

Just GO, TEAM.

Bridgett #86,

Thanks, you just made me throw up in my mouth.

mpzildjian #87,

Orrin has at least 45 more days, maybe more.

PS. Shouldn’t you be worrying about how to market “Amway” to America again? That’s a bigger challenge than Orrin Woodward. —- Not now, Orrin is gone.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
GirlPower #88,

Orrin deserves a good extended blanket party.

Proud to be a past IBO #89,

They aren’t paying, Orrin is. Keep them contributions coming Orrinites. Bypass the middle man and make your checks out to QBI.

Kris M. #90,

You are so scared, so weak. The Orrin CA lawsuit has already come back to bite you.

The IBO legal defense fund is for Orrin & Co. There is no extorting going on with the silvers and the emeralds. Which Platinums are being taken to arbitation?

Quixway will not last, because it never existed. Quixtar will become Amway Global. The disinformation and vehement you continue to spew will not work.

Just one year ago, Orrin wasn’t the darling of Quixtar, he had been getting corrected by Quixtar for the previous 5 years. His depth building was applauded by the corporation, but not his illegal stacking. Kris M. speaks with a forked tongue.

It’s really quite pitiful. Non of you can hold a candle to the kind of company Quixtar is.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Ryan B. Hunt #91,

Tex, What is your win? Why do you have a dog in the fight? —- My “win” is to shut down the tool scam. It’s going very well, thanks to Orrin & Co.

White Knight - The former IBO’s, including Orrin, who filed the lawsuit, did so because you can’t arbitrate a class action lawsuit. Thus, they broke no rule. —- That’s not what the CA judge said, and that’s why the case is back in arbitration, where it belonged in the first place.

2nd Orrin sat out his six months before mentioning anything about Mona-Vie. Then, respectful of the law, has not expounded on his plans pending a judgment from a Michigan judge, which should be done with on his birthday. —- Oh goody, that should be a great birthday present. Now all he has to do is survive arbitration. Happy Birthday, Orrin. I think he broke the rules by continuing to be involved with TEAM, as the rules clearly state he can’t get involved in another “networking” business for 6 months, which TEAM clearly is.

How early he made plans to join Mona-Vie is irrelevant. There are no rules about “shopping” other opportunities. —- I agree with you on this one.

There are some question about the trade-secrets of the IBOAI… Not sure what was really secret and what was common knowledge, but other than that some-what gray area, what rules have been broken? Anyone? —- http://www.iboaiblog.com/my_weblog/2007/08/former-iboai-di.html Go read Orrin’s lawsuit for the particulars, I’m sure the IBOAI Board doesn’t want to list them publicly, it would defeat the purpose of the case.

Oh… and don’t tell me he or anyone else on the Team is “raiding” the LOS. They are leaders. By definition if you are leading, someone is following. When Team leaders walk away, they couldn’t keep people from following if they tried. —- Too bad their noses are so brown they can’t see or think straight.

The Team is following a vision of creating one million leaders. Now that’s compelling. I believe that Q’s own financial predictions are for them to shrink over the next couple of years, and those were done before they hacked the heads off of the leaders of 40% of their North American business. It’s hard to follow a vision of shrinkage. —- If we have to shrink for a year or two, it will be worth it, because Orrin will be GONE.

Now you boys and girls be easy on me. I don’t want to have my feeling hurt And, one more thing before I go… That’s my name. What’s yours? —- Tex. Does my name change the facts, Ryan? Your name didn’t do much for your arguments.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Ryan B. Hunt #92,

Please do, perhaps some of the Orrinites will see my posts and wake up.

DaveC #96,

I, as a current IBO, will say this just once, knowing full well that it will have massive effect on many people. The truth must be said and you cannot change it. You at Orrin (aka Alfred E. Neuman, of What-Me Worry? “fame”) Woodward is a lying cowardly “kingpin”, tool scammer, money begger, or whatever he is calling himself these days are totally beneath contempt. You are worthy to lick my boots, but just barely. You can unlace them if you promise to use the laces to tie your mouth shut. I am not claiming godhood or anything like it for anyone, but I will say Orrin is a man of lack of integrity. Time and the truth will definitely prove who is right and it is definitely not Orrin (aka Alfred E. Neuman, of What-Me Worry? “fame”) Woodward.
Joe Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
When u say u fight for the IBO’S I get confused ,there aren’t any IBO’S left so what do u mean when u say that!!!Don’t worry about all of the x IBO’S contrary to what you think they are smarter than what u calculated,have fun in europe cause u are done in n. america.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Jeffrey #97,

There is a real simple solution to all of this. Get rid of the MA$$IVE tool and function systems so that unethical people will not be able to take advantage of those in their group in the name of “training.” Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. ANY amount of profit is okay with me, as long as it is transparent.

I don’t think the Customer Volume Rule needs to apply to EVERYBODY, there’s a valid reson why it doesn’t apply to Platinums and above. The systems are what has caused nearly all the problems this company has, including in the UK. People get dependent on a system that works, but primarily for the upline, so consequently, most IBO’s don’t make any money. That’s what this whole Woodward things is about–his big income from his tool and function business that was a distortion of the Sales and Marketing plan. Let him go–goodbye and good night, and the rest of the lying cowardly “kingpins” can follow him out the door, unless they want to come clean and clean up their act.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Doug #100,

Why don’t you tell us?

2coachu #102,

You in my opinion, are a pitiful excuse for a human being. Do you not realize that your comments only hurt those folks that still believe in TEAM? By inference your words reflect poorly on the very organization you seek to defend. Do you not see that this sort of behavior only emboldens Quixtar? I for one have gone from an anti-”kingpin” IBO to an ardent and tenacious anti-”kingpin” IBO. Not just because of their words and deeds, which I mock, but because of their cowardess of not posting here.

I hate this divisiveness, but if it is then, so be it. You will not prevail.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
onemill #103,

Tex. WHY? WHY? WHY? Must you make personal attacks. Even if your points were correct or logical, you take away from their effectiveness by playing the game “middle school” style. Just stop it and stay on point. (Unless of course your purpose is to waste time). —- My purpose is to reveal Orrin for the fool that he is.

I’m certain Orrin’s concerns are for those who want to venture away from Q/A and have to be subjected to the serious financial burdens that are associated with Arbitration and other dispute processes. I dont see why this should be considered a demonstration of being “scared.” —- This is another area where Orrin screwed up. There’s no need for “serious financial burdens that are associated with Arbitration and other dispute processes”, all Orrin and the Orrinites had to do was sit out for 6 months and not contact known IBO’s for 2 years. Period.

What damage did Orrin himself cause? —- Plenty, he was the lead character in the CA lawsuit. Quixtar HAD to respond, or face similar situations with other lying cowardly “kingpins” leaving under their own terms, and not the rules.

You have only proven Clints point with this comment. What is the end result that Alticor is looking to accomplish? To ruin anyone who wants to venture out away from them financially? Why dont they put that on a mission statement somewhere? “If you ever dare leave us, we’ll do OUR best to rub your face in it! Free Enterprise FOREVER!” —- You and Clint don’t have a point. Orrin broke the rules while he was an IBO, wanted to break more before he was terminated, and broke more after he was terminated. He could have quietly walked away for 6 months and not contact known IBO’s for 2 years, but he didn’t. Simple as that.

“middle school” again. “Oh yeah, my Dad can beat up your Dad!” What rules did they NOT follow before? —- They are all listed in the termination letter. Read it. Some of the things listed I witnessed with my own eyes and reported them to Quixtar.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
G #105,

Apparently, you’re not aware of a change of LOA affiliation (Support Materials supplier) compared with LOS (sponsor) - for real eye opening experiences, explore how may times this has been done BY CORP without support of sponsor. —- Give us a single example.

Not saying you may not have valid feelings, but you’re barking up wrong tree to suggest it’s unilateral on part of BSM providers - nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, BSM supplier outside LOS is restricteed from actively soliciting - does not stop the LOS leadership from exploring opportunities, however. It’s all contained in the RoC and your BSMAA Agreement (which everyone reads in it’s entirety, obviously) —- This part is correct, but it isn’t easy finding a new LOA unless you’re a higher pin, in my experience.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Randy #106,

You didn’t fail with Amway, you were ripped off via the tool scam by your upline.

Dream Warrior #107,

I just have one question then, WHAT ARE YOU SO AFRAID OF?!?! —- Nothing.

The decision made in Georgia is going to make you realize that TEAM should have been left alone! —- Perhaps a change to the rule is in order, but not complete elimination of the rule.

A Revolution has sparked the truth to come out all over the country….and it’s not from your side! —- It’s not from Orrin & Co.

Let TEAM exit peacefully please, and lets all go on with our lives. Unless Alticor humiliation is the goal in this instance. That has already shown itself. —- A little humiliation for a big jerk is a good thing.

Save some face and do something good for a change. —- They are, by rubbing Orrin’s nose in the doo-doo he made.

Knowing the business practices shown lately, I probably won’t even get a reply on this. —- Perhaps not from who you wanted, but here’s a reply. The purpose of this blog isn’t for Alticor to reply to your BS.

This could all be over and set aside. Too bad this situation couldn’t be settled peacefully. Maybe we can still be friends. Have a good day! —- Orrin ruined the opportunity for this with his “illegal pyramid” lawsuit. You’re no friend of mine until you apologize for following such a huge jerk, and teach others to do the same. You MADE my day, thanks.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Josh #108,

I agree, we are NOT buddies.

Anyway, this whole back and forth is indeed boring, but not fruitless. It is stupid of the Orrinites to keep posting on blogs like this, as it simply confirms their stupidity.
Big Bob Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
“Just Go Team” but “you have to follow the rules on the way out” Good one Tex! (54)
Grand slam thinking going on there. Anyhow. . . FYI. . . TEAM is already long gone. Alticor/Qstar/Amway is just having a rough go of choking on the dust we’re leaving behind. Cause ya know, it takes leadership momentun to charge to a million and beyond. Why is it Alticor is stuck in the stone age? Because the don’t read–history or relationships or free enterprise. . .
May want to start there.
Tex Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Josh #109,

Ok, agreed on paper. However, remember Vietnam, Vietcong were allowed to caravan AA guns, setup AA guns, and target our aircraft.
We were not allowed to engage them until fired upon. —- Whatever the rules of engagement were, Quixtar is now fully engaged. This thread is proof they are not afraid to pound Orrin and his Orrinites into submission.

Some rules need to be thrown out the window, or at least confronted, before someone sets up a checkmate before the match even starts. —- What? This makes no sense. Which rules need to be thrown out the window, which ones should be “confronted” (whatever that means)?
ME!! Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Quixtar.. you guys are so full of crap!
ME!! Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Hey Tex..

Dont you have a life? I was here on the blog about 5 months ago and you were still ranting then? Dont you have anything else to do?

I would guess that the reason that you dont is becasue your on a payroll with the company that your defending so furiously?

What have you accomplished outside the walls of your cubicle, without your corporate coffee mug and your pocket protector?
Tex Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Eric #111,

I agree, the tool payout structure is NOT an illegal pyramid. That is why TIF got flushed, they tried to pay ALL IBO’s. However, it is unethical and immoral to promote a Quixtar business while making most of your profit from the tools.

Your point about following the system is flawed. The excuse of doing every step perfectly is merely a cover up to placing all blame on the IBO, and not placing most of the blame where it belongs, on the tool scam. The fact is most people fail because they cannot learn enough to make a net profit fast enough, so they quit. If the tool prices were lower, the IBO’s would reach a net profit at a lower PV level, retention rate would increase, and the Quixtar business would grow.
Tex Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Jack #112,

Thanks, consider me pro-truth.

By the way, amazing things are being accomplished.

Eric #113,

I heard the same things as Josh. There was near contempt for Quixtar in the meetings. Everything good was spoken or touched by Orrin, Quixtar was merely an unnamed supplier that could be easily replaced. Given the tool profits far exceeded Orrin’s Quixtar profits, it’s easy to understand how he could have this position, and was one of the many reasons he was terminated.
Tex Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Jeff #114,

You’re welcome. Bub-bye. You failed the IQ test. Better luck next time.

John #115,

Yes, or perhaps Glen took after Orrin.

Tony F #116,

Just GO, TEAM (right after Q gets every penny they can from Orrin & Co., and Orrin & Co. makes a public and permanent apology).
Tex Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
John #118,

You didn’t mention making any money via TEAM, why is that? Just GO, TEAM.

neutral #119,

If Orrin is doing so well, why is he publicly begging for money? He’s just another lying cowardly “kingpin” who made most of his money from tools.
Tex Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Shannon #120,

Thanks for the free advertising of the IBO fund. —- You’re welcome, just make your checks out to QBI and cut out the middleman. If the Amway lovers don’t see the writing on the wall now, God help them. —- Don’t worry, He already is helping us. Orrin’s gone, an answered prayer.

Don’t you see people? Just a year ago Orrin was praised for the success with TEAM. —- Quixtar was hoping he would straighten out, but he didn’t. If you think the public and private discussion are identical, you are VERY naive.

Now posts like this. Sueing at every turn trying to keep him from moving on, which is what you said you wanted him to do in the first place. —- That’s right, but Orrin “forgot” he was supposed to leave by following the rules.

This is what happens when a company has no checks and balances and someone disagrees. YOU COULD BE NEXT. —- I’m shaking…NOT!

The fund is for the little people who can’t fight big bad Amway who need to! This is what fueled this post, and what Alticor is afraid of. The community who’s AGAINST SCAMWAY! Keep putting posts like this, cause it makes our community more fired up! —- Has Orrin provided a breakdown regarding how much money has been raised and where it’s going?

Free 3/15/08 (Thank GOD!) —- Just be sure to behave yourself for the next 1.5 years.
Tex Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Utah #123,

I would think that those Silver and up, who not knowing the current automatic silver and up renewal rule, would be allowed to call or write the Corporation and clarify the date of inactivity. —- Agreed.

An IBO that thought they were resigning by not renewing should be able to straighten this out, and the Corporation, who, according to the IBOAI post was following the rules, should still cooperate. —- Agreed.

I believe it is very bad policy to renew someone, not immediately notify them of the renewal, and then refuse to correct the date based on the intent. The “Hotel California” comments on other blogs are out of frustration with this policy. —- The normal perspective is Quixtar is doing them a favor, so they don’t lose their business. Since this is an abnormal situation, the IBO has the responsibility to take action, not just slither off an worship Orrin.

These current rules have now been posted on two blogs crying foul. —- So what? Most other blogs are full of BS.

I trust that IBOs, less than silver, who had dropped the automatic renewal were not renewed without asking, and that the corporation is willing to take into account intent on the rest. —- I think you’re right on the less than Silver IBO’s, and if the Silvers and above don’t like Quixtar’s decision, they can take their case to Quixtar and the IBOAI Board. If they are still not happy with the decision, they can use arbitration. You can’t expect Quixtar to have read their minds regarding their intent without them voicing their intent.

Just because certain former IBOAI board members knew about the policy, doesn’t really matter. I believe people that didn’t renew did so based on their own decision, and based on their confusion, were not following the instruction of former board members. —- Sure it matters, the former IBOAI Board members are supposed to train and motivate their IBO’s, and this should be part of that training. If the IBO’s were confused, they should have asked questions. Grow up!
Tex Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Ethan #126,

I think your first sentence says it all. You like to ignore rules, then wonder why life is so terrible.

As far as the apology goes, it could be an attractive deal for Orrin to make, as Quixtar would agree to back off (a little) in return. Personally, I hope Orrin would turn down such an offer.
Jerad Smith Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
This blog is being ruined by bloggers who feel the need to respond to each and every post, pro or con, directed to them or to someone else. It sucks.

Can we get a little clean up or perhaps at least some proper blogging edicate?

‘Cause this blog has turned into a blogger trying to shout down everyone and keep the focus of any discussion on “tool scams” that have nothing to do with how TEAM is run.

If you have a problem with tool scams then start your own lying cowardly blog.
Tex Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
quixtarisacult #127,

While I agree with many of your thoughts, I don’t believe this business is a cult. Rather, it is a bait-and-switch operation that has been allowed to continue.

If the enemy of my enemy is my friend, why don’t you regard the tool scamming, lying cowardly “kingpins”, who are the ones who are creating the bait-and-switch, as the bigger enemy, and Quixtar your friend?
Tex Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
JimZ #128,

AMEN!

Marnie #129,

Does anyone use their brains anymore? —- Yes, but it isn’t you.

I have two questions: —- Actually, there are 3 questions below, further proof your brains aren’t being used.

Can anyone imagine any other company posting negative blogs about ex-employees or ex-distributors? Like Budweiser blogging about one of their top-level independent distributors, or Disney blogging about Michael Eisner. —- Perhaps these other companies don’t have their own lying cowardly “kingpins” to deal with.

Also, why is it that the MonaVie Distributor Application requires you to certify that if you were ever affiliated with Amway, you are not breaking any of their rules? According to people on this blog, Amway rules are pretty “standard” in the MLM world. —- The rules are standard in the business world, not the MLM world.

So why don’t I have to certify about my prior affiliation with Mary Kay, or Shaklee, or Xango? Could it be because Amway has their head up their b___ so far they can’t see how un-free enterprise they are? —- No, because YOU have your head up your b___ so far you can’t see reality.

Who would have thought that by signing a single page form in 1998, I would be giving away my freedoms for the rest of my life? —- That “single page form” was a contract. You should act like an adult and realize a contract has meaning in the real world. Don’t forget signing it in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007. Not a signature, but the legal equivalent of one. By the way, you didn’t give up your freedoms for the rest of your life, you gave up joining another networking company for 6 months, and agreed to not knowingly approach an IBO for 2 years. That probably leaves a lot of your sad, helpless life to do whatever you want.

My guess is it will be sometime in 2009 that Amway will subpeona MonaVie for all their distributor apps in 2008 to make sure no one violated the non-compete. No wonder they call you QSSR. —- My guess is it has already happened, and could happen again before 2009. No wonder I call him Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward.
Tex Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Shannon #130,

If you liked that, wait until you see my response.

DLoaner #131,

Legal fees are only $600k/month? I’ll have to get in touch with Steve and Doug and get that into the 7 digits a month area. I wonder what Orrin would do if he could turn the clock back to about noon, August 9th, 2007? I think he would have ripped the CA lawsuit in half, slithered out of the meeting room, waited 6 months and quietly joined Mona Vie, without approaching any known IBO’s for 2 years. An expensive lesson learned by Orrin for the remaining lying cowardly “kingpins”. Thanks, Orrin.

Good to know your tool purchases are going directly to Orrin’s lawyers for a losing cause. Give more, TEAM. Orrin Wants YOU (or at least your money)!!! Not only is Quixtar a victim of baseless lawsuits, so are ALL IBO’s. The TEAM’s assertions are ridiculous.

How long has this competing MLM been around? What’s their product volume (the the nearest billion dollars)? All TEAM wanted was to break rules over and over while maintaining their tool scam.

Shame on you DLoaner. You have lost touch with reality. You are now just a guy trying to hang on the ideas that you are losing (note the lack of the second “o”) on a daily basis. Q/A doesn’t need to take over the world. But instead DLoaner is never going to be even a footnote in history.
john Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Tex (I mean Quixtar Representative) #139,
When an “independent” business contracts with another “product supplier” the rules are put in place. Nowhere, does the supplier of an “independent” business get to change, add and take away rules as he pleases after the contract is in place.
Can you tell me if an IBO owns an independent business, a Quixtar business or a Quixtar distributorship. Bingo is you said Quixtar distributorship.
Utah Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Re: #123

I thought I should re-post this:

“If ANYONE was auto-renewed in error, the Corporation has told us they will fix it and let them be on their way. We suggest that anyone with concerns along these lines contact Karen O’Neill in Quixtar Business Conduct & Rules. The IBOAI will assist if necessary.”

“IBOAI Blog Moderator”
GirlPower Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
#145 Joe:

Get a clue. TEAM was only a small portion of Quixtar’s business. Dumping them only put a minimal dent in business as usual. Not even a speed bump.
Bill Thomas Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Tex #146, you said, “ANY amount of (tool) profit is okay with me, as long as it’s transparent.” How can the tool companies be transparent about income when Amway won’t let them?! After you read this article, even you’ll admit that you’re holding the tool guys to a standard that the corporation won’t let them meet. http://barristerquixtarlawsuit.blogspot.com/2008/03/what-in-world.html
GirlPower Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
#148 ME!!:

Wow. That was oh so eloquent. Whatever will we do without people of your caliber?

Oh, that’s right… PROSPER. It’s business as usual.

Just go. And good riddance.
truth Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Tex,

Your are so so called “OUT”. All you Amway guys reading this, thinking Maybe some people still do love Amway. This is Tex, and he is a paid Amway man. He works for Alticor and his job is to be a defender of his company cause they know that NO ONE UNDER 82 wants to be in AMWAY. The people in rest homes are the only ones buying your overpriced junk.
sorry for telling your “secrets” to all but we all realize your getting paid……… Tex id be looking for a new position. Maybe theyd pay you to defend another immoral company. I heard ENRON is hiring
Barbara Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
I must say when I first started to read this particular blog “mis-leader”, I liked reading everyone’s input. People sharing opinions not making any judgements on what was being shared. Then Tex reared his ugly head once again!! I just want to know, “who do you think you are? Are you the big “OZ” hiding behind your curtain - blowing smoke out of every orifice you have???? With all the garbage that spews out of you I can’t imagine what you must feel like on the inside. Only someone really unhappy could spew out the venom that comes from you. No wonder Orrin irritates you - it’s like the “vampire meets the cross”!!!!
One day Tex, you will grow up-inspite of yourself!!!! And when you do - oh boy……

I only hope you’ll be able to handle the truth and see what fool you’ve made of yourself.

Team will prevail because of their character, integrity, honesty - just to name a few of their attributes. They are a class act which is something that no one can say about the behavior of A/Q. It will all come out in the
end - you can be sure of that!!

Now Tex I know you’re going to chew this up and spit it out like a rabid dog because you can’t help yourself - just take your time so as not to choke.
nonprofit Says:
March 15th, 2008 at 8:15 am
Ahhhh Tex, your beginning to resemble a severely autistic child with your increasing tantrums. We may have to strap on your helmet and put you in a padded room soon, so you don’t injure yourself. Are things not going your way? They say a light bulb always burns brightest and hottest just before it goes out!

Let’s see if we can address some of the things that are causing you sleepless nights and raising your blood pressure.

You’d like us to believe that Orrin (man doesn’t that name just make your blood boil) and Team are free to go,”Just don’t break any of the rules.” Truth be told, no judge or arbitrator has found the need to agree any rules have been broken. Not one decision in the 6 plus months has stated that any infractions have occurred. Now that either means that there hasn’t been any infraction, the rules aren’t enforceable, or clear enough to grant a decision. So currently this is a non issue.

Your hatred of the tool “kingpins” has been well documented. You did kind of lump them all together which I find a little narrow minded. Strike that, very narrow minded. Truth be told Team, the leadership provider, has left Quixtar. This is a moot point. Team offers a product to customers that they are free to purchase or not. Unlike Quixtar customers I don’t see any of them complaining about product, rules, or prices. I know this twists your shorts in a wad, that a company can actually provide a service people gladly use and don’t complain about. Novel concept, huh?

I’ve also seen you state that the Georgia decision is overturnable and not really a big deal. I’m assuming you also feel that when they denied Quixtar’s appeal, that was insignificant as well? Sound like if you want that overturned it”s Supreme Court time.

Your rants of “Just make the check out to QBI, cut out the middleman,” seem a bit premature to me. Nothing in this legal battle has pointed to a Quixtar victory, not even a minor one. All Quixtar has succeeded in so far is to tie up 2 men from participating in a free capitalistic society. Those rulings were accompanied by a footnote from the judge noting, out of frustration, that there is no basis for his ruling, and he can’t see Quixtar changing his mind, but here’s 45 days to do your best. I know you feel this is a battle about one man’s ego, and the concept of solidarity eludes you. I choose to look at it this way, it’s my little contribution toward a cause that seems unjust to me.

I can’t help but notice your following consists of you and six bloggers. Your a high impact kinda guy, keep up the good work. One man can make a difference, …..in the right cause. I can see this is beginning to consume a great deal of your time, but I’m not seeing much in the results dept. Every tantrum is followed by a rest period, try to put this aside and get a little down time.
Utah Says:
March 15th, 2008 at 11:04 am
re: the auto-renewal fix, If Karen O’Neill refuses to do something, remember that the second part of the equation (after Karen) is writing directly to IBOAI.

I would use:
pr@iboai.com (which insures that it gets in multiple “right hands”). What ever the reason, and despite their latest post, they promised to help.

While Q/A has had a few people being jerks since August, including this post about Orrin, you have to remember that there are still good people working for Q/A, and perhaps the board is waking up too.
JimZ Says:
March 15th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Dear Non profit #105:

I deeply appreciate your placing me in the company of six or seven other SANE people who choose to THINK instead of just mindlessly following a charismatic leader over the cliff with the rest of the gaggle.

To your comment: “Maybe we can erect the first statue ever for critics in their honor”.

This is another one of those TRITE PHRASES the Kingpins LOVE throw around – usually to a thunder of applause from the crowd. Sounds great, but like many other things they say – no foundation in truth.

How about uhmmmm…Martin Luther, who led the Reformation. I think you might find a statue or two to him – in fact I bet you’ll even find them on more than one continent!

The tipping point of his crusade was when he nailed his famous 95 Theses to the door of a church. It was REALLY a “stinking thinking” document, FILLED with…..criticism. 95 of them, in fact.

Now in “Kingpin world” there is no place for criticism (of the Kingpin). So Martin Luther, I am sure, would be categorized as a stinkin’ thinkin’ loser. I am sure he’d never move anywhere’s near the tool flow that you’d find in many of these large organizations.

I realize there are probably many statues to Orrin – probably little ones on homemade altars with incense candles nearby for morning and evening prayers to him. And I am SURE Orrin has a statue of himself. My only hope is that if it’s one of those statues that are combined with a water fountain that…well… I just hope he was discreet.
Eric (AEM) Says:
March 15th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
When we look at Alticor’s actions over the past six months, all we see is a manipulative company, abusing the principles of values-driven leadership that Team teaches. Put plainly, Their recent actions are enough to make all of us who care about helping people more committed than ever to changing culture through leadership training and positive influence.
Eric (AEM) Says:
March 15th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Tex 146

“There is a real simple solution to all of this. Get rid of the MA$$IVE tool and function systems so that unethical people will not be able to take advantage of those in their group in the name of “training.” Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. ANY amount of profit is okay with me, as long as it is transparent”.

Tex, does ANY amount include a massive amount? The last sentence seems to contridict your ’solution’.

“People get dependent on a system that works, but primarily for the upline, so consequently, most IBO’s don’t make any money”.

If it works for the ‘upline’ it can work for anybody. That’s the point. How do you think the ‘upline’ got to be upline from anyone? Probably following a system of some sort. So if it works for them then anybody they sponsor can do what they did. Every so-called kingpin you’ve ever heard off started off with no tool business and no product business, just a IBO number and a dream. And most of the so called kingpin learned how to build a network from a system. How do you decide what should be taught in a system anyway? The stuff you did that got results. The system teaching is what works, things that don’t work don’t get taught. And nothing works (the way it’s designed to) if you don’t follow the system the way it’s designed to be followed.

“That’s what this whole Woodward things is about–his big income from his tool and function business that was a distortion of the Sales and Marketing plan. Let him go–goodbye and good night, and the rest of the lying cowardly “kingpins” can follow him out the door, unless they want to come clean and clean up their act”.

That is not what this is about. This is about Team leadership officially questioning the legality of the Quixtar business (and therefor the contracts) and Alticor throwing a tantrum over it. For Team this is about legality and fairness in a free enterprise market, for Alticor this is about financially crippling their opponent so badly they have to give up.

And historically what has quixtar’s response been to those who tried to “come clean and clean up their act”, think TIF or Team (Quixtar threatened suspension of both Orrin and Chris if they didn’t take out the chapter in their book explaining tool income and profit shareing). Alticor does not agree with you on this issue, they don’t think tool profits should be transparent. The lack of transparency is not the fault of those that own tool companies, it’s the fault of Quixtar.

As far as misrepresenting the income from the Quixtar business, the numbers quoted at the Team opens I attended were less than the average income quoted by Quixtar. So if anything they under promised (at least at the opens I went to).
1junk1 Says:
March 15th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
unfortunate about the retail requirements. The only reason I am a customer (aka IBO prosumer)is to get the bonus money to compensate for the higher prices. Well, every time I miss that bonus money because I didn’t hit the retail requirement or forgot to report it, I will return everything I bought within the previous 6 months. Hate to do it, but fair is fair. Very sad.
ben Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 3:12 am
holy moly, I just read every entry on this post. And the only thing I could possibly ad is this.

Say what you want about orrin, because with or without him the TEAM is going to millions of ppl. He and the rest of the leadership have set in motion a charachter based leadership training system that will continue to flourish far beyond their own mortality. Today is march 15 and the seminar i’ve just witnessed in Saginaw was the biggest turn out I have ever seen there before. I don’t believe it will stop growing at this rate. What we are doing is to important to ignore in this day and age. Call me cynical if you wish but it kinda reminds me of how one government forced their ppl to burn books so they coulnt gain knowledge and truth. Well my friends we have top notch leaders saying READ for gods sake READ!!!
Jeffrey Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
The best way to get someone to stop messing with you is to ignore them. I think the company should take this blog down and never again give O.W. the time of day or any media space. I sure hope one of my prospects never finds this blog. Everybody involved with this case is acting like a bunch of immature brats.
Chan Man Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Hello everyone and especially R and L Stamps…..this is Greg Smith from Columbus Ohio……Just a few comments. I am SOOOO SOOOO happy to be OUT of this absolutely STUPID ORGANIZATION called QUIXTAR-AMWAY. Every Day that goes by I am more and more excited about my future and thankful to GOD that He lead me out of the organization that QUIXTAR-AMWAY has turned into. My family will benefit so greatly from what we are doing and where we are headed. I HIGHLY encourage everyone to seek truth and I hope that GOD opens your eyes to what is so obvious to so many. I am so glad that I was not one of the silvers and above that was auto renewed and forced to stay inside the walls of control. This whole topic of Quixtar-Amway just makes me laugh that people actually still have confidence in it. Man…I just found myself laughing to myself again. Alticor….what is your sales predictions for 2008-2009 for North America???? 750mil - 500mil….what will it drop to….I know where I am going its growing strong! I found truth and that truth followed up leaving the walls of control….I will finally be FREE from all of this. I am so thankful to the integrity of TEAM, THE TEAM - The TEAM that Quixtar-AMWAY is frightened of. THOUSANDS have left and THOUSANDS will leave and as long as the writter of these blogs continue to write what they do….more and more will leave. I got it…..Just like QUIXTAR, only worse….its called AMWAY World Wide.
my2sense Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Hey team,before you get on your juice box,let me ax you sumpin.I know you think that you’r playin’ follow the leader, but all I see is, duck duck goose.Who are the leaders besides Orrin? I know its all secret,sssssshhhhhhhhhh, but,what about Martin,Goestchel,Haugan, Wilson,Frey? by the way, who is this Frey and why is he speaking for team? All I see is a small Frey,waiting to be tapped on the head.Who knows maybe he’ll be the next goose!!!!!
George Washington Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
With the easy accessability of information on the internet it amazes me how bold a company can be in spreading untruths. Is Alticor/Amway/Quixtar depending upon people to sit by and believe this? If anyone really believes Orrin Woodword is soliciting people to fund HIS legal defense please read his comments on his blog at orrinwoodward.blogharbor.com . If you want to know the real truth. There is a Legal Defense Fund but Orrin has set this up to help those who can’t defend themselves against Quixtar. Let’s all fight to bring back the FREE in Free Enterprise.

“You can not stop an idea whose time has come”
Jeremy Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Just face it Tex wants to play both sides. He’s pro Quixtar and Anti(tool king pins) as he calls them. But totaly ignores that fact that Quixtar is all about the TKP(tool king pins untill they want to share more proffits with the newr people(Quixtar instructs them to keep proffits to them selves and tell nobody about said proffits). Then if Quixtar gets into any kind of trouble thay can just grab the Biggest group and throw them under the bus’s of the government. Im sure that Quixtar is very pleased with this type of relationship. #1 Dopes like Tex believe evey piece of trash they utter or put on paper and think its a fact. #2 How is the founding families(Amway) going to keep making all the money if a single group starts to be to productive(for the ibo) and all the chaos and confusion start to fade because the results are there and even more scary the “loyalty” is there and it is not due to A/Q/A products, but loyalty to the group leaders. Amway can’t have that. They at least know about their own history of how Amway got started, and after 50yrs of hard work(sarcasim), Im sure they would not like to see that history repeat itself even though the actions they took to prevent it was to enslave its people and not improve the opportunity. As you can see due to a lack of vission from Amway history did repeat itself. Tex I dont care if you hate all the TKP, I want to know how you can come to reason that here in America it’s still ok to enslave people.
Captain Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Tex #142

“Non of you can hold a candle to the kind of company Quixtar is.”

Nor do we need to. They lit the fire that’s burning down their house.
Tim Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Did anyone tell you that this is not a presidential issue. Don’t treat this like the election campaigns please.
I have to tell you that this is my second time with Amway. First time was when the yager diamonds scammed us with their tool scam. When I saw it this time I made sure that yager system wasn’t what we were going to do again. I was so glad to actually see the tools profit go to the perople instead of the so called top ones.
I will tell you this much, Like a doctor who goes to a different hospital, you can’t chop off my head and empty the knowledge I learned from Amway, Quixtar, Shaklee, Tupperware, all my jobs, and team. I will use what God gave me the ability to learn and share with whoever I come in contact withand make a difference in eveyone I touch lives. Regardless who I choose as my vehicle to get the job done.
Quixtar, why aren’t you bashing Brig & Lita Hart at all. They were at least Double Diamonds in Tim Foley’s group. I bet Brig used a lot of what he learned from Amway and Quixtar to excellerate to Imperial Black Diamond in that magic juice company. And I thank God Brig and Lita hart did because I bet they made a big difference in a lot of peoples lives even with out Orrin or any one.
Let’s look at the real question here, What difference is Orrin Woodward, Doug DeVos, Steve VanAndel, Chris Brady, should I keep going on. I think I will follow the ones who are helping people, not financially hurting them> Let’s not even talk about the scum sucking legal
beagle that both sides have.
Gene Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Any business has a product or service for sale. You as the business owner sell that product or service for a price and make a profit.
You as the business owner determine the profit margin by several factors.
1. The cost from the supplier
2. The cost to deliver the goods or service
3. Compare the value of a comparable item to yours and determine a retail price.

You analyze those 3 factors and others such as the supplier, the reliability of the supplier in paying holdbacks and rebates to you the business owner.
If the supplier or suppliers are charging too much in your estimation, you find a different supplier to conduct business with.
Seems pretty simple.
Why would a business owner do business with a company that locks in a business owner thru legal means, post-contract?
I find it hard to justify doing business with a company that has so little respect to the beginning business owner. Quixtar/Amway has seemed to have lost its way in the last decade and a half, unreasonable wholesale pricing which leads to outlandish retail prices if you as a business owner wish to realize a profit.
Then you read of the litigation with a business owner that you held in high regard only a year ago, why would they want to become involved?
Maybe Amway is the latest buggy whip manufacturer?
my2sense Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Tex,

Man, you scare me, and I’m with ya’!!!
How many writers ya’ got?

I thought this was man on man coverage,but you play zone well!!
keep it up,ya’got ‘em thinking,,,,which will be their downfall.
john Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 3:09 am
Alticor,
You ramble about the deceit of Orrin. Have you seen the incredible videos of the WWDB diamonds showing the miracle of balance and stability after drinking bottle of your Perfect Water? Study the videos carefully and you will clearly see the trickery and deceit. Is this where the new Amway Global wants to go?
LM Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 10:05 am
As second generation IBO, I detest the damage that this fight has caused. I don’t aggree with the methods of either party. But however, twisted each parties story in their attempt to blame the other… one fact remains. No one person can claim credit for putting a team together, it is the contribution from the talents of many individuals. Quixtar’s rules are meant to protect the joint investment from an attempt by one to dismantle or re-orient that teams efforts for their personal benefit. They cannot and should not sit back and allow Orrin to improperly use his influence by encourage the organizations that were constructed by many, to follow him to a business endeavor that will not mutually benifit to all that contributed. Without these rules we don’t have a b-based business that is willable, in fact, we don’t have a business at all. Unfortunately, the ramifications that will follow “the team”, will be a total lack of loyalty to the LOS in the future. Many follow the leaders lack of respect and integrity and want to move to another group follow someone other than the persons that origonally registered them. In fact it has already started. So how will you feel when someone in your group that you’ve poured your life into suddenly decides that they want to be in another group! The rules Quixtar has in place have value to you.
jthompson Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Well Said Quixtar!

They key word on Woodward is Manipulation. Yes, “Leadership is Influence” but Influence by Manipulation is very disappointing to me.
I started to blog about this within days of Aug10 events….
My first post on the freetheibo blog on the week of August 10th was very childish… yet accurate.

T.E.A.M. Together Everyone Achieves Manipulation…. sad but true with Orrin and TEAM
texstar Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
LOL

does anyone see how tex counters himself???

lol what a joke

spin little tex,spin like a ballerina!!!

you should start a company called texway and maybe you should sell “hot air” or” bs” in a pill you could be the biggest promoter of your own product.
Marcus Rob Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Woodward could’ve packed up and went home a long time ago. He lives by what he believes. Slavery was abolished many years ago, yet, many Quixtar affiliates have been put in bondage by Alticor just for even thinking of pursuing another business opportunity! What right does Alticor have in holding people slaves to free enterprise?? NONE! Orrin Woodward has gone to bat for non-TEAM affiliated “Amway” IBO’s. That’s what this defense fund is all about. He’s vowed to spend his personal fortune to make sure this cause is carried out. The people whining and complaining about their lack of progress and the way Alticor is selling their people out, need to wake up and smell the coffee! Someday you’ll understand what men with a just cause are all about. Something society is desperately lacking these days! Few, standing up to the tyranny of many! TEAM has proven you can’t hold people hostage against their will. We have set the example for others to follow as well. The only thing that sets TEAM apart from Alticor loyalists is “COURAGE”! It was attained through strong Leadership that has been exemplified from Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady! They didn’t have to do what they did! They layed it all out on the line for a bigger cause. It’s called justice. There is no “peace” without “justice”. Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth!
jthompson Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Our Orrin,
Who art in Michigan
Hallowed be thy name
TEAM Kingdom come
TEAM will be done
On Earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day our daily MonAvie fruit juice
And our leadership lit pack
As we sue those who trespass against us
And lead us not into Quixtar
But deliver us from Amway
Amen

Now this is genius! Jim did you think of this yourself?
JT wishes he thought of this.
_____

Peoples listen up! - there is no use in trying to use logic to persuade the hardcore Orrin followers like Jerad… why? b/c they do not follow for logical purposes. Its like trying to dissuade a Barack Obama supporter by talking about the Issues. They don’t care about the issues… its a movement…. of cult-like personality.
You have to remember that TEAM loyal people have listened to about 1000 hours of phone messages, cds, meetings, etc… that have constant edification and praise of Orrin W….. they have developed not just an opinion or belief… but a CONVICTION that Orrin is an outstanding moral leader.

Quixtar - good job of acknowledging how LOW it was for Orrin to stoop in creating a legal defense fund and making his broke TEAM members pay for his lawsuits…. while he enjoys his multi-million dollar Lake-Front Private Estate in Michigan and his residual income from his best-selling book.

- JT
Lonnie Kenny Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Alticor will resort to anything to sway others beliefs. They have compromised core values that have been a staple in society for thousands of years. They have lied, cheated, mislead, purposely attacked others unjustly for their own gain and they haven’t even batted an eye in doing so. They have no conscience! That’s what greed will do! The personal gain for the “chiefs” at Alticor is more important than honor, character and integrity! The people whom choose to follow these “communists” are setting themselves up for their own lack of success! You will reap what you sew. May God have mercy on your souls.
SP Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Quixtar is behaving so arrogantly. I can hardly believe it. At one time I thought Quixtar was a Judeo-Christian based type of company. But it seems if they don’t get their way… watch out! It’s not right… what Quixtar is doing. Rude, arrogant, selfish
Greg Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
How nice and benevolent of Quixway to represent the interest of IBO’s who are leaving voluntarilty w/ these suits, etc.

The only pertinent question that “leaders” should ask is “is this in the best interest of those whom I lead?” If people are leaving Quixway, it’s either because they found a better deal, or they’re being forced to leave against their will. I know why I left.
IBO To Go Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Pay close attention to the underlying theme in these blogs and others. It’s Quixtar’s intention to rid itself of ALL N. American IBOs in favor of big box retailing.
Mama Tinaz Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Why do you say you want Orrin to leave, yet every time he tries, you sue to keep him?
Lonnie Kenny Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 12:50 am
ATTENTION ALTICOR:

Who do you have dream up all these articles that you post? You should be writing fiction novels!!! Isn’t it time you face the truth and just openly admit you picked the wrong fight?! You’ve been the big bully on the block for so long that you’ve lost touch with reality. When a group of people banded together and followed a leader with integrity and character, you just couldn’t figure it out could you?? Imagine that, people actually following others who refuse to negotiate their principles for the almighty dollar! You should take some lessons on that subject!
Great part is, I chose to grow with a community of people who have each others backs rather than stabbing them in the back like you’ve done with so many people. I’ll tell you what, this Mona Vie is something special. I’ve served my 6 month jail sentence you’ve enslaved people with and I’m making it a priority to bring as many people in the mix as humanly possible. Way I figure it, it’s less of a chance that they get scammed by your pile of trash! Remember this, GOD will get you for your sins! You’ve got alot of grobbling to do! Good luck with the “Titantic” known as Amway.
Jeremy Hoagalnd Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
I always check this website to find out all the bad that my upline or business doesn’t discuss they try to be positive and uplifting, but their only millionaires not billionaires. Like to the two that own this blog what do they know. Still just remember if ever do make it big a Q they may attack you like this after you made thousands of thousands of promises to help people change America or go to a million leaders and then and only then will a mouth piece like Tex or any other know the pain/satisfaction the former IBOAI board members ( almost all of them, you trusted until where told not to )must feel as they embark on the freedom most of you will never know.
Former IBO
and better person for it
goneforgood Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Keep it comin’… drag it out… in one ear, out the other…

No matter what we will follow, support, love, and help ORRIN go to a MILLION!!!!
my2sense Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Hey there Lonnie,
Boy,are you a prophet,disciple,or just a hich hicking, tent dwelling, bible thumper?
Whats up with, “God have mercy on your soul”,and “God is on our side”?
Its very obvious that you are not buisness minded,but emotion driven.
Alticor, is doing nothing but, buisness.
But,its hard to do that with 31,000 pretend buisness owners.
my2sense Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 12:49 pm
BY THE WAY LONNIE,
The word is grovel not,grobel
Chase Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 3:04 pm
I have wrote letters to my Attorney General and my state represenatives. Like many of you I have just had enough!! I decided to call in a favor.

My sister is a producer for a large local news channel. She referred me to their reporter that covers consumer issues.

I handed him a pile of papers:

Lists of Blogs including this one. Print offs of Blog releases such as “Corporate Communications”. Court cases all printed out. Letters that Quixtar has sent out to us as IBO’s. Letters from Quixtar that were sent out threatning current IBO’s.

Included also were the letters from IBO leaders that were put out to the public. Several of the former IBOAI Board members letters to the public.

The lawsuit over the bloggers totally blew them away! He had his producer call their legal department to look into more of these cases. They could not believe what they were seeing since it did not seem “logical”.

The producer kept asking “why do these guys sue everybody”? “What do they want”.

Then there was the list of 31,000. They want to know as we all do. Who are these people? Is their privacy being breached? Is this another company to is letting identities be released? But on purpose without permission?

A list of Alticor Executives, Marketing People, Conduct and Rules employees and other Quixtar Management. Just in case they would like to be contacted for comment.

A List of the current members of the IBOAI Board.

A List of the former members of the IBOAI Board.

They also were handed a list of Attorney General’s phone numbers. They said they plan on getting a report of what is being done on these actions and if they have a comment for the record. The reported wanted to get a comment on the letters that are being received.

If only you could seen the look on their faces when they learned that one of the owners of Quixtar/Amway is former Michigan Governor candidate Dick Devoss.

Here is how they thought the story might start out:

Michigan is going through hard time economy wise and here is a Michigan company holding back income to Michigan residents. Then impacting finances of families all over the United States and the United Kingdom. Then putting them all through court on top of it.

They are researching and documenting sources.

Updates soon
Josh Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Lonnie Kenny #156

Well it is funny that under the “leadership” of Orrin, you didn’t learn that God doesn’t “get you” for anything. God is a loving God and cares for all His creations.

I am amazed that all the TEAM-sters that post here have yet to learn how to take the high road. Even if the Alticor says stupid stuff.

If your option to switch to another MLM as that good you wouldn’t be wasting your time posting here. Instead building and/or preparing for your new venture would make better use of your time.

Also intriguing is that Orrin and Chris have made a couple of blogs referring to Nazis and Hitler (no doubt inferring the corp as such). That is bad form and a mark on their integrity.

Secondly, they spout about open communications and transparency. Yet, when I post a comment on either of their sites, with a differing view point or ask for clarification about why they blog (in reference to Nazis and Hitler), nothing but silence. They do not even give an email back. However, Alticor seems readily willing to post all the differing viewpoints on their blog. Even when done by ignorant people with small minds (on both sides of the argument).

That seems like transparency to me.
David Jados Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 4:04 pm
The IBO Legal Defense Fund is not set up to fund Orrin’s Court Battles agains The QSSR it is to help out the IBO’s that need help with their cases….Hey QSSR check you facts before posting these false statements.
David Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:27 pm
hey Q/A check your facts before making false claims about Orrin Woodward. The Ibo legal defense fund is not for Orrin it is for others that are being dragged in to court because of your frivolous lawsuits.

http://orrinwoodward.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2008/3/16/3583549.html
Rich Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 12:24 am
What I find funny is tht for once Quixtar is telling us the truth:

Mis-leader, in court + Mis-leader, in the field = Quixtar. I do have a question though, why is it that when Quixtar even thinks that someone is doing something that they don’t want them to do then they start claiming that it makes “those people and/or companies” instantly evil, law-breaking no-good criminals? I am waiting for them to decide that God is breaking one of their “covenants’ and see what kind of lawsuit and spin they will put on that. Quixtar: just because you don’t like to feel that anyone is crossing you doesn’t make them is “bad” and therefore open to attack. Just remember the story about “The Boy Who Cried Wolf” and one of these days you’re going to “Cry Wolf” and even the judges that lean your way will have to laugh or be recognized as possibly being biased or whatever (this is the way that I feel about what is happening).
Armand Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:10 am
None of us are coming back. Do you really think blogging like this will convince what is left of your people not to leave. I dont’ care how mean Jody sounds in his “Corporate Communications”
Tauraus Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:47 am
Hey Parrot(tex),

I haven’t been reading your post anymore, just pass them by without much thought. Wanted to just say that what I did read in the past would have influenced me into never joining anything that you would be a part of. The people I have met on TEAM well you wouldn’t understand friendship, trust, loyalty. Money, opportunitties, growth come from these things. When Q terminated their friendship with Orrin they terminated the loyalty of all of his friends and his friends, friends and thier friends oh yeah and the friends of those friends and their friends, and the people who were friends whith those people. When did a business that was built on loyalty between people think they could break trust and not lose 31,000 people in one shot. Products, money can always be reproduced in other systems. But hard fought friendships that are terminated well you can see the results even in your life wasting time arguing pointless points. Things are moving on 1 year or 5 years from now and I still have my friends and we will do what we want to do without the big Q and you. I will never sign anything that has anything to do with Q/A again and just like alot of other people that have asked the perpetual question “Is this Amway? If it is I’am not interested.”
RayCruz Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
It has been a long time since I visited this site. WOW!! AltaQway seems to have forgotten that the now 36 former Diamonds are the same people, yes we are people, that BUILT Amway/Quixtar. Not the other way around. We referred to it as “building OUR Amway business” Sad, very sad. I thank the corp. for all they did over the years. At the Louisville Team conference, where we had a 5,000 person overflow, the true future of the internet set sail. I wish Amway all the luck in the world. Just make sure all new IBOs truly have the same chance to go Diamond. Otherwise, well you know that pyramid thing? I never meet a self made Diamond. It takes a community/village.

God Bless
RC
Chue Says:
March 23rd, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Alticor, you are acting like the vindictive ex-girlfriend. I can’t tell you how ashamed I am that I was ever associated with you. Amway had a bad reputation here in the US already. Are you that delusional that you really think you are making it better?. Your actions seem to parallel those of Saddam Hussein. After the Kurds fought for their freedom, he did everything in his power to discredit them and everyone the associated with. Saddam was so afraid that others would seek freedom like the Kurds, that he attacked them as hard as he could, thinking this would cause so much fear in others, they would never consider seeking their freedom. What Saddam did not realize was that later those vindictive actions were what lead to his demise. Alticor, please take note, before all of your vindictive actions lead to your demise. In my opinion, the reason that you are being so vindictive against TEAM and anyone associated with them is to strike so much fear in current IBO’s that they would never think of leaving. You are paralleling the actions of a notorious dictator. It only makes sense that the results will be paralleled as well.
Rich Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Tex #55 - Alticor is winning virtually every court decision??? Is it just massive amounts of Alticor money that you’re being paid to get you to say that or are you just not in touch with reality? All the decisions made by the court in Alticors favor have basically been only in area that Alticor gives out money for “improving the area” which basically makes all the people in that area subject to Alticor’s will. The CA ruling was not won by Alticor, it only recommended that TEAM and Alticor complete the arbitration process (which by the way, I believe that the CA courts did not even study the arbitration process to see if it was viable, legal or determine that it in any way was set up to guarentee that only one side would win before process even began. Also, Orrin has contributed quite a bit of money to the defense fund above his legal costs to help the IBO’s that Alticor has decided in their wisdom (or lack thereof) to go after in the premise that bankrupting quantities of IBO’s would work better since attacking someone with money didn’t work so well.
Rich Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 10:09 am
JimZ #62 - I agree with you completely that Orrin is no God nor anything close to one either. If he was on here he would agree with you even quicker. However, there is this statement that you made:
“I don’t think EITHER side has an exclusive on God, but I do suspect that God isn’t very thrilled with Orrin tossing aside “covenants”. God would never do that.” You are also correct in saying that God would never toss aside his covenants that He made. At the same time, God would NEVER sneak in “covenants’ without the knowledge of others in a way that He knows (as well as the corporation knew) that only a very minimal number of people would find out about it. At least if God makes a covenant He knows that it is a covenant good for the people and not a “sneak-it-in” covenant because it would benefit the alticor and no one else. One last item, when God makes a covenant, He openly gets agreement from whom He makes the covenant with prior to making the covenant effective, anything less than that is underhanded, dishonest and cowardly!
Rich Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 10:15 am
Tex # 58 - If you had enough touch with reality to do you any good then you would know that Orrin has not “been on the attack” against poor defenseless Alticor. The only “attacks” that Orrin has made was in defending himself and all of us as well as defending our freedoms and rights as free men from a corporate giant that has changed itself from a GREAT company into one that is focused only on enslaving as many free men and women as they possibly can. What you say will be hard for even you to believe when the corporation starts “JOHN DOE” suing every person in a town just because a TEAM member lives in that town. Yes, I believe that this is highly unlikely but what I’ve seen coming from Alticor I’ve decided that anything is possible with them.
Glad2BGONE IBO # 56,234 Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
I am sitting here waiting for my FREEDOM date. For those Dependent BOs that dont know what that is, it is the day my six month wait is over and my family is FREE from the concentration camp of Alticor.
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 12:09 am
Renshi #132,

The Orrinites and Team-sters are still posting here and arguing with Amway because most of them are waiting for Orrin to sign up with MV, so he can be their upline. Problem is, Orrin’s end date probably has been extended again, so the wait goes on, and on, and on….

They have no idea what good it does, but it feels good, because Orrin is encouraging them to keep doing it by the posts on his blog. They are pawns on Orrin’s side of the chess board, and Orrin is in checkmate.
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 12:16 am
kjteam #133,

You’re assuming the prices will stay the same, not a good assumption based on UK developments.

You are assuming tool prices will remain the same, not a good assumption based on UK, Russia, and India developments.

The business will be based on a more balanced internal and retail volume.

How do you know the IBOAI board fees will be unchanged?

Many groups don’t use the “get stuck 5 in depth - start a new leg” rule.

What exactly is your point?
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 12:25 am
kjteam #134,

Yes, I’ve heard of Harriet Tubman. The analogy you are trying to make falls flat on it’s face, however.

The benefit of TEAM is the new information being made available in the various lawsuits and direct statements by Orrinites on blogs, regarding the HUGE amounts of money being made via tools. Orrin & Co. was far from alone with the profit sharing model. The hardest domino is the first one, the rest are lined up and will fall much easier. But thanks for your “concern.” I am a part of A/Q, I’m an IBO.
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 12:29 am
Joe #147,

There’s plenty of IBO’s left. The universe never did rotate around Orrin, sorry to break your bubble.

Big Bob #154,

The 6 months may be up for some TEAM IBO’s, not others. Just because the 6 months is up now doesn’t mean all TEAM IBO’s waited their 6 months to sign up, especially when downline resigned prior to upline, and the upline wanted to stay as their upline in MV. The best example is Orrin himself, he was extended at least 45 days, was a slot “saved” for him?
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 12:36 am
ME!! #156/7

Quixtar.. you guys are so full of crap! —- Impossible, you have been “purged” from Quixtar.

I have a life, and it includes shutting down the tool scam.

Your guess was wrong? Care to guess something else?

I’ve never been inside the walls of a Quixtar cubicle, and never owned a corporate coffee mug or pocket protector.
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 12:44 am
john #169,

My contract said the rules may change from time to time, which contract did you sign?

GirlPower #171,

I think you are underestimating the collateral damage caused by Orrin & Co., and is the source of the severe arbitration “spanking” being delivered. However, all will be fine in the longer term.
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 1:00 am
Bill Thomas #172,

Okay, I’ll play your “game.” Let’s assume A/Q told the lying cowardly “kingpins” (LCK’s) they couldn’t tell their IBO’s how much profit was made by the tools. Did the LCK’s have to keep the prices high and make multiple times more fromt the tools than from A/Q? Or could they have lowered tool prices and had the high moral ground to demand lower product prices (not to mention having an INTEREST in demanding lower product prices)?

truth #174,

Your name shouldn’t be “truth”, it should be “fantasy.” If I work for Alticor, how do you explain my posts critical of A/Q? Most elderly people are on fixed income, and those living in a rest home are not good candidates, as most of what they need is provided to them. But the rest homes themselves are different matter….

Sorry, your “secret” about me getting paid to blog is incorrect.
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 1:14 am
Barbara #175,

Glad to help you with not merely tossing out “input”, “opinions”, and “sharing”, but getting to the root of the matter. Who am I? Just a regular IBO who decided the tool scam must end. No curtain, smoke blowing orifi, etc., sorry to disappoint. I feel great inside, and feel better every time an Orrinite is upset. Orrin doesn’t irritate me, his actions have provided valuable information regarding the tool scam, as have all previous lawsuits. Thanks, Orrin.

I can handle the truth, I handle it every day. The tool scam is being dismantled every day as well, exposing Orrin and the rest of the lying cowardly “kingpin” fools.

TEAM has no character, integrity, honesty - just to name a few of their lack of attributes. They are a class act alright, the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit was evidence of that, just in the opposite way you are thinking. Orrin & Co. has already come out in the end, we’re just waiting for the flushing sound.
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 1:31 am
nonprofit #176,

Things are going great, thanks for asking. I sleep well and my blood pressure are fine.

Orrin’s name makes me feel great, he provided a significant amount of useful information regarding the tool scam. Thanks, Orrin! How would you know whether the arbitrator has decided anything? Haven’t you read the rules? Nobody is allowed to disclose the results of arbitration, but Orrin publicly begging for money isn’t a good sign for his side. Ask Orrin if this is a non issue, and watch his teeth gnash.

I don’t hate the tool “kingpins”, I hate their actions. I lump them together because they charge similar prices, with very few exceptions. TEAM IBO’s who quit didn’t complain about tool prices, because they didn’t realize that MA$$IVE amounts of profit were being made. That’s what makes them lying cowardly “kingpins.” I know this twists your shorts in a wad, that a company can actually provide a service people gladly use and don’t complain about because they are being lied to about the level of profit. Novel concept, huh?

What you don’t “get” is all of these court cases will be tied up in the courts for years, long beyond any 6 month/2 year timeframe for TEAM. I’m not concerned about these rules, so it doesn’t matter if TEAM “fixes” them, I don’t consider them “broke”. And all of your money is being given to Orrin to pay for all of this legal mumbo jumbo.

Keep giving your money to Orrin, I’m all for that.

I think six bloggers, me, and the facts are plenty to keep making progress. There are plenty of results, just ask Orrin & Co. The posts are not being posted quickly, I have plenty of reserve to keep up the pressure until the tool scam is put to bed, but thanks for your “concern.”
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 1:35 am
JimZ #178,

Excellent analogy.

Eric #179,

When we look at TEAM’s actions over the past several years, all we see is a manipulative tool scam, abusing the principles of values-driven leadership that Quixtar teaches. Put plainly, their recent actions are enough to make all of us who care about helping people more committed than ever to changing culture through leadership training and positive influence.
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 1:49 am
Eric #180,

Tex, does ANY amount include a massive amount? The last sentence seems to contridict your ’solution’. —- It sure does, but I doubt A/Q will allow it to be more than the A/Q profit, as it would make the marketing plan quite different than what we show, wouldn’t it? And that’s the point, the actual numbers are already different than what is shown, making it a bait-and-switch scenario.

If it works for the ‘upline’ it can work for anybody. That’s the point. How do you think the ‘upline’ got to be upline from anyone? —- By keeping the tool scam lie alive.

Probably following a system of some sort. So if it works for them then anybody they sponsor can do what they did. Every so-called kingpin you’ve ever heard off started off with no tool business and no product business, just a IBO number and a dream. And most of the so called kingpin learned how to build a network from a system. How do you decide what should be taught in a system anyway? —- I have little issue with WHAT is being taught, I have an issue with the resulting HIDDEN PROFIT from the teaching.

The stuff you did that got results. The system teaching is what works, things that don’t work don’t get taught. And nothing works (the way it’s designed to) if you don’t follow the system the way it’s designed to be followed. —- The problem is the “results” are based on hidden tool profits.

That is not what this is about. This is about Team leadership officially questioning the legality of the Quixtar business (and therefor the contracts) and Alticor throwing a tantrum over it. —- Sorry, some of these same individuals previously ENFORCED the same rules they are now complaining about.

For Team this is about legality and fairness in a free enterprise market, for Alticor this is about financially crippling their opponent so badly they have to give up. —- TEAM has never been concerned about legality or fairness, they have been interested in making the tool scam bucks, just like the rest of the LCK “leaders.” Period.

And historically what has quixtar’s response been to those who tried to “come clean and clean up their act”, think TIF or Team (Quixtar threatened suspension of both Orrin and Chris if they didn’t take out the chapter in their book explaining tool income and profit shareing). —- TIF tried to set up an illegal pyramid, by paying all IBO’s with no outside market. TEAM kept breaking the same rules over and over for 6 YEARS! Neither one of them were “coming clean”, they were both filthy.

Alticor does not agree with you on this issue, they don’t think tool profits should be transparent. The lack of transparency is not the fault of those that own tool companies, it’s the fault of Quixtar. —- It doesn’t matter if Alticor agrees with me or not, there is now too much information available to try to keep hiding the tool scam facts.

As far as misrepresenting the income from the Quixtar business, the numbers quoted at the Team opens I attended were less than the average income quoted by Quixtar. So if anything they under promised (at least at the opens I went to). —- Who cares about the Opens you went to, TEAM is GONE! I saw Opens and a Seminar where the word “Quixtar” was not uttered a single time, and Orrin/Chris were given total credit for the business, not Quixtar. It was disgusting. Just GO, TEAM!
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 1:55 am
1junk1 #181,

If you have no downline or a single leg, you get paid the same. If you don’t like the rules, you should either change or quit.

ben #182,

Go for it. Just GO, TEAM.

Jeffrey #183,

The best way to get someone to stop messing with you in the internet age is to hammer them into submission. I think the company should take this blog up a notch and never again give O.W. the chance to catch his breath. I sure hope one of my prospects finds this blog. Every TEAM Orrinite involved with this case is acting like a bunch of immature brats.
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 2:06 am
Jeremy #187,

Take a breath.

Captain #188,

What you see is Orrin’s money they are burning as firewood.

Tim #189,

Brig is apparently making some exaggerated claims for MV’s products. That’s illegal, just ask the MV president, who got shut down for similar reasons in the business he did prior to MV.
Jerad Smith Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 9:00 am
JT,

I don’t know what to think of you.

At any rate, I’ll simply think that you are wrong. The legal defence fund is an organisation Orrin uses to help OTHER IBO’s, not himself.

But much like Alticor, I guess you think that research is too cumbersome and then you’d have to figure a way around the facts that you just uncovered.
JimZ Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 9:34 am
# 197 Jthompson

Yes I did think it up. Thanks for the compliment.

#218 Rich

Fair to say that God is a much fairer communicator. Not sure about the getting agreement from the peeps first - I’d have to look at that one more closely. I’m not sure I agree with that, but can’t think of a particular scripture to back up my opinion on that (which is important).
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Gene #190,

Why would a business owner do business with a company that locks in a business owner thru legal means, post-contract? —- Because this protects the business owner’s business from their downline jumping ship when some Pied Piper (TIF, Orrin & Co.) wants them to leave. Pretty simple stuff.

I find it hard to justify doing business with a company that has so little respect to the beginning business owner. —- Quite the opposite, it is the upline who lies to their downline about the real source of profits.

Quixtar/Amway has seemed to have lost its way in the last decade and a half, unreasonable wholesale pricing which leads to outlandish retail prices if you as a business owner wish to realize a profit. —- Unless your goal is to have a huge retail business, the retail prices aren’t that big of a deal, just charge wholesale.

Then you read of the litigation with a business owner that you held in high regard only a year ago, why would they want to become involved? —- Orrin wasn’t held in high regard, he was being publicly supported while being privately chastised (for 6 YEARS - too long in my view). This is VERY common in corporate America.

Maybe Amway is the latest buggy whip manufacturer? —- And they’re using that buggy whip on Orrin’s bee-hind as we speak.
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
my2sense #191,

Just me. Let’s get some more folks here who agree with us (and the facts), and overwhelm the Orrinites.

john #192,

I think you’ll find most of those videos have come down, and most of what remains are the “brainchild” of Scott Larsen, of amquix.info fame. The videos are terrible, and I hope severe disciplinary action has been taken.

LM #193,

I agree with most of what you said, particularly protecting the LOS, but what method(s) has Quixtar used do you not agree with?
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
jthompson #194,

Welcome back, good point.
Tex Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Marcus Rob #196,

Woodward could’ve packed up and went home a long time ago, but he had to file his “illegal pyramid” lawsuit. He lives by what he believes, the big bucks are in the tool scam. Slavery was abolished many years ago, and the 6 month/2 year are normal business rules found in various industries, and not even remotely related to slavery.

Orrin hasn’t gone to bat for non-TEAM affiliated “Amway” IBO’s. Just GO, Orrin! That’s not what this defense fund is all about, it’s all about him.

He’s vowed to spend his personal fortune, because the damage he’s caused has already committed everything he owns to the arbitration process. The people whining and complaining about their being held “hostage”, and the way Alticor is selling their people out, need to wake up and smell the coffee! Someday you’ll understand what men with a just cause are all about. Something society is desperately lacking these days!

Many, standing up to the tyranny of TEAM! TEAM has proven you should follow the rules or suffer the consequences. TEAM has set the example for others NOT to follow as well. There are many things that set TEAM apart from Alticor loyalists, such as TEAM’s “STUPIDITY”!

It was attained through lack of Leadership that has been exemplified from Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady! They didn’t have to do what they did! They layed it all out on the line for a bigger cause, their tool scam. It’s called greed. There is no “peace” with “Orrinites”. This dead horse has been beat up beyond recognition.
Jeremy Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
my2sense, You have some change coming back. 1. who cares about spelling on a blog? 2. I know you think your names is clever but the phrase is, my 2 cents. Say hi to Tex and rocket and the rest of the guys there at Q for us we will miss them here in the very near future. Why you ask. I’ll be to busy building my MonaVie business. bye =P
JimZ Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
To: Non profit and all the other folks who believe the tool business is a legitimate business:

IF the tool business is a legitimate business that offers a valuable product at fair market value

THEN - WHY DID ORRIN NEED MONAVIE?

Orrin has a HIGHLY DEVELOPED tool business. I have seen his website, I have read the posts of many who sing the high praises of his motivational system.

So….IF it is a legitimate business, THEN why didn’t Orrin just promote the TEAM business tool business as a standalone business.

ANSWER: The tool business is a PARASITE business. It requires a “host” to feed off of. Once it has fastened itself to the host, then just like a deer tick, it starts sucking the blood out of it. It is set up as a monopoly with no other competition so it can create profit that is DISPROPORTIONAL to it’s true value.
amazed Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
Wow.. such a long heart-wrenching story… it almost makes you feel sorry for the poor little ole’ business that has been hurt by such a meanie!
Who would have thought that thousands of people would see through the smoke and mirrors after all these years of sweeping it into arbitration!
Good luck Amway IBOs… you will need it!

I am proud to be free from the Quixtar/Amway regime! You get to live with it until at least 6 months after you choose freedom; unless they change it to a lifetime non-compete without warning you!
kjteam Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Tex #222
My point is that there lying, lying, lying. They are trying to spin the “The New Global Amway” any way they can. So maybe you can help me out?
What does the IBOA board mean exactly when they say this is a new model, not like the old.
If you get stuck 5 in depth, and put a personal in there to keep it moving, that is called “Stacking” and is illegal according to you and Quixtar. Read the rules.
Oh and by the way, the sleases over at Quixtar, on Feb 29th, 2008 renewed my business without my knowledge and/or permission. Stating that it was there policy to pay for a platnium’s renewal.
Being that your so good with rules and ethics of quixtar, could you please tell me where I can find that paticular policy?
Just curious did you pay for your renewal this year or did Quixtar pay for your renewal.
Since you want the “kingpins” to be truthful, how about you show a little transparencey and tell us all your level of accoumplishment in “Q”, any level will do.
kjteam Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
#223 Tex,
Yes, I’ve heard of Harriet Tubman. The analogy you are trying to make falls flat on it’s face, however.

My analogy is right on. We are considered propery of quixtar as read from the court transcript. My sister, my mother, my daughter all on my LOS, should not be considered Quixtar/Amway/Altiocr’s property. If this is true, then we are “slaves” to rules that would keep us “slaves”, and we must rebel against tierney.

Tex. Here this loud and clear, If Orrin did nothing, I, personnaly could not build a business under the “AMWAY” Business, and would have resigned no matter what. I know there’s alot of people that felt the same way I did , and would have left amway regaurdless.
kjteam Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
#241 JimZ Says:
Feel Free to tell all of us fellow bloggers and to the visitors who wonder into this blog, so they can make a choice to become, or not, of the amway business model,

How many Plantniums and above made it without the tool system?????
It's Me!! Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Once again a very entertaining post from the “Big A”.

It seems to me that all the “unacceptable business practices”, the “distortions and untruths”, the “bad ethical decisions”, etc., etc., and so on that you are refering to are an exact reflection of what the Big A is all about and what the Big A has/is doing.

The truth has and will continue to prevailed
Jeremy Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Jim Z,

Maybe you should check the website again, Its grown from 1 to 3 types of leadership, Looks like it did pretty well with out a (traditional)product.

Hope you have fun with Amay in the rest of the world, something tells me it wont be around here (U.S.) in a few more years.
Glad2BGONE IBO # 56,234 Says:
March 30th, 2008 at 8:20 am
Can’t wait…..my freedom date is coming next month from the concentration camp of Alticor.
happy to be gone Says:
March 30th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
TEX: Now what??? Orrin and Chris were found not guilty of any wrong doing in Q/A Arbitration kangaroo court. Now what? See you in the market, oh that’s right you don’t or can’t effectively build a business, only talk big about a business that you don’t or can’t build.
Utah Says:
March 30th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
It is always nice to read the other side of the story. When you read both sides, you have a chance to see what really happened.

http://orrinwoodward.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2008/3/30/3611549.html
Ethan Says:
March 30th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Tex #164,
I see how your arguments work. You’ve obviously learned from Scamway. You didn’t address ANY of what I talked about in my questions; rather, you completely ignored the facts. As for me ignoring rules- quite the contrary. I’m in law enforcement so I believe rules are important. Also, I don’t wonder why things are bad. Things are great for my family! What makes things bad is when good people want the opportunity to compete and a bunch of cowards who are hidden behind a wall of success they did nothing to create, decide to abuse their power and money, regardless of any moral obligations, and interfere with the very basic premise of free enterprise that their parents embraced so openly. What’s truly unfortunate here is that you will sell out all that is good and American to defend a company that would do to you what they did to so many people recently, if you simply decide that you would rather look out for the interest of ANYONE other than the Alticor family of crooks. I hope you can get away from the illusions that you are living in soon enough that you don’t mess up your own life.
JimZ Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 12:44 pm
To #245 kjteam:

“how many Plantniums and above made it without the tool system?????”

Answer = HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS more than the number of people who actually fulfilled the “6-4-2″ plan (which is zero, BTW).

In 49 years, with a half million IBO’s PER YEAR sine the 90’s anyway, ZERO IBO’s have “put in 10-15 hours per week for 2-5 years and you will be Diamond with a six figure income”.

#247 Jeremy,

You are deflecting. You didn’t address the question - WHY MONAVIE?

Big deal, so Orrin how has three different “types of leadership” products to sell in his parasitic tools business as he signs up Monavie distributors. He will sign them up with them naively believing they are getting in to sell fruit juice, when in reality they are getting in to “juice” Orrin’s tool income.
Tex Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 12:52 pm
kjteam, March 28th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

I don’t know what the IBOAI Board mens by a new model, they haven’t announced any details yet.

Your definition of stacking leaves out many details. There are ways to do what you mentioned without making it illegal stacking. Read the rules.

Call the rules department to find the source of the Silver and above renewal policy.

Yes, I paid for my renewal, and as I’m not ripping off others, it doesn’t matter what my level is, only the facts of the tool scam matter. My pin level doesn’t change the facts. However, my level is greater than Orrin and the entire TEAM Policy Council, combined.
Tex Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 1:02 pm
kjteam, March 28th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

Nobody is considered property. The non-compete is used in a number of industries.

kjteam, March 28th, 2008 at 12:48 pm

Most Platinums made it without the tool profits. Platinum is where most tool company profits start to kick in.

happy to be gone, March 30th, 2008 at 7:05 pm

How do you know what was found in arbitration? One of the rerquirements is to keep the decision secret.

Ethan, March 30th, 2008 at 11:50 pm

As I said before, if Orrin was willing to follow the rules, this could have gone much smoother.
Eric (AEM) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 2:35 pm
jimZ 241
You don’t understand.
Eric (AEM) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 1:42 am
JimZ
Here’s what you don’t understand. Team is not affliated with any particular business or product. The leadership material produced is generic, aimed to teach leadsership for whatever you need leadership for. The moticational/educational systems are not parasitic, they are catalytic. Without any formal system of doing business you cannot succeed long term. The success of Alticor is owed in part and in whole to the formal systems designed to build communities of people who retial products and redirect self consumption.
Former Ohio IBO Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Here ya go Tex

This, along with Orrin now being FREE to pursue other opportunities looks a lot like TEAM victories to me.

Wanna tell me again how Quixtar’s winning every case?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…………….

Quixtar/Amway suffers MAJOR defeat in court yesterday regarding the enforceability of the Arbitration process. The entire 45 page case will be posted soon, but here is the final conclusion:

VIII. CONCLUSION
For the foregoing reasons, the Court finds that the
arbitration agreement contained in the Registration, the BSMAA,
and the DM Terms and Conditions, and incorporating the RoC (Rules of Conduct), is procedurally and substantively unconscionable, and therefore
unenforceable. The Court therefore ORDERS as follows:

1. Quixtar’s Motion to Dismiss or Stay and Compel
Compliance With Dispute Resolution Agreement is DENIED.

2. The Britt Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss and Compel
Compliance With Dispute Resolution Agreement is DENIED.

3. The Puryear Defendants’ Motion in Support of Joinder in
Quixtar’s and Britt’s Motion to Dismiss or Stay
Litigation and Compel Compliance With Dispute Resolution
Agreement is DENIED.

4. Plaintiffs’ Motion to Strike Quixtar’s Reply Re:
Statement of Recent Decision is VACATED AS MOOT.

IT IS SO ORDERED.
Dated: March 31, 2008.
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
Renshi_D Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 11:53 am
Why is Amway still obsessed with this guy?

Amway ditched him. They should expect all of his friends and family to take his side. They should expect all of those people’s friends and family to go with that side as well. Hey genius, all those people are his LOS. If Amway was expecting to keep even 20% of those people, then they don’t even understand how their own business works. Their business is not one where they can fire an executive level employee and still expect his division/department to still be retained.

Sure, the TEAM gurus joined another high-priced mumbo jumbo juice company. No, they didn’t join a Wal Mart type of company because those types of companies don’t exist in the MLM world. All Orrin and Chris are really suited for is MLM. You can’t really expect them to go back to engineering or engineering consulting. They may have had some degree of success in that, but that was many years ago and I strongly doubt they have kept up any licensing, certifications, or continuing education in that field since they hit emerald.

Instead of harping about how awful these TEAM guys are, Amway should be asking themselves why their high level distributors are going to other MLMs and other MLMs high level distributors are NOT coming to Amway. Maybe those high level distributors have figured something out about the Amway opportunity compared to other opportunities out there?
Tex Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Eric (AEM),

Here’s what you don’t understand. Team is not affliated with any particular business or product, but they were supposed to be affiliated with Quixtar. The leadership material produced is not supposed to be only generic, aimed to teach leadsership for whatever you need leadership for. The moticational/educational systems are parasitic, they are not catalytic, because they drain most IBO’s of their finances and they drop out, only to be replaced with more victims. Without any formal system of doing business you cannot succeed long term, which I agree with. The success of Alticor is owed in part but not in whole to the formal systems designed to build communities of people who retial products and redirect self consumption. Are you kidding us, RETAIL? TEAM’S basic lawsuit premise is they couldn’t retail, and retail was hardly even MENTIONED in TEAM training.
Tex Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Former Ohio IBO, April 1st, 2008 at 9:24 pm

I’ve read all 45 pages. The decision yesterday only confirmed the changes made to the ADR were inadequate. The fact TEAM broke numerous rules has nothing to do with the ADR process.
Tex Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Renshi_D, April 2nd, 2008 at 11:53 am

I think what has been figured out is A/Q is finally clamping down on the secret tool profits, and most high level IBO’s aren’t very happy.
JimZ Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 3:11 pm
#256 Eric

Well..you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT that I do not understand. The issue is NOT my comprehension, it is your tortured logic born of Kingpin double-speak.

Let’s break it down based on your reply:

“JimZ, Here’s what you don’t understand. Team is not affliated with any particular business or product. The leadership material produced is generic, aimed to teach leadsership for whatever you need leadership for.”

OK, so you are saying that if there was no MonAvie, that TEAM could go merrily on their way and build a tremendous business by marketing the wonderfully generic business materials. So….uhhh….how come that’s not what people are doing. How come when I go out to IBO REBELLION or other pro-TEAM sites everyone is talking about how great life is going to be WHEN they launch out into their next great venture.

How come Orrin is talking about creating “WalMart 2″ when he has this most awesomely excellent catalytic leadership program that should be selling like hotcakes.

Eric - it DOESN’T ADD UP. The actions don’t match the rhetoric.

OK, moving onto your next observation:

“The moticational/educational systems are not parasitic, they are catalytic. Without any formal system of doing business you cannot succeed long term. The success of Alticor is owed in part and in whole to the formal systems designed to build communities of people who retial products and redirect self consumption.”

Wow - now THAT’s Mumbo-jumbo. I really don’t know what you are talking about here. Are you saying that the TEAM tools are the formal system? Or are you saying that the tools amplify a formal system (i.e. an MLM business).
Not sure what your point is here.

Regardless - if you tried to sell TEAM tools as a standalone business, going out to business people, teachers, churches, etc and saying “HEY, this guy Orrin is REALLY GREAT and if you spend $75 a month for our program you’ll love it”. I doubt it would fly.
Deann Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Tex…#254
Who cares what was found out…only the results matter. If Orrin WAS found guilty of something, he would still be under contract and / or worse with Q/A.
EXPLAIN IT !
Lonny Kenny Says:
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Josh #209 I’ll make a deal with you. You send me the bonuses that Quixtar refused to pay me that I earned and I won’t be heard from again in here. They didn’t have any problem taking my money and the people’s money that I referred to them, but, they sure didn’t hesitate to not pay me and several others who earned their bonuses. Am I bitter, you bet. These crooks at Amway should be held accountable for their failure to honor others.
They enforce a 6 month compete and expect others to honor it, which I did, but, can’t pay their bills……. give me a break.
Here’s a tip, never, ever have the notion to pursue another business opportunity, and if you do, make sure your bonuses are paid out before you act upon your right to resign your affiliation with these clowns. You will be enslaved and not paid.
Mark Says:
April 4th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Tex
You seem awful quiet lately, I guess being proved wrong repeatedly will silence even the most ignorant of miscreants. It is good to know that if you are actually an IBO that you are finally making some money off of ScamWay (although only by being their blog trol)
Dwight Says:
April 6th, 2008 at 9:32 am
I reviewed this blog back in February to see what information was out there about the Team and Quixtar. I logged on today to see any updates and thought I was in an episode of Divorce Court. What I mean is that in Divorce Court you have 2 parties-one wants the divorce and one doesn’t. They come to court to solve their differences, and there is a judge to settle these differences. There is an easier way to do this, in this case. The 6 months are up! Your divorce is final from Quixtar. Those of you who wanted the divorce from Quixtar please go have a happy life with your new spouse (Business). Stop airing your grievances with your ex, it does not serve your purpose anymore. If you are the Plaintiff (the person who wanted the divorce)6 months has come and gone, you now have no reason to complain about your ex - “Quixtar”. If your choice was any other business opportunity or Team, you should now be supporting their blog and relating the joys and pleasures you now have with your new spouse “business opportunity”. Let’s all move on with our choices because both parties will never see the separation eye to eye. Now we can both move in our separate directions and never have to communicate anymore. The reason why, those who have made their choice to divorce and there is no community property to dispute, they should make a clean break, go their separate ways and be happy with the choice you have made.
To those who wanted the divorce, go forward with your life, leave your past behind and be HAPPY.
For those who remain - work hard, rebuild your businesses and you also be HAPPY.
YOU BOTH HAVE BEEN GRANTED YOUR WISHES.
Connie Says:
April 6th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
As a former IBO with Q I had an awefully hard time getting anyone to buy the product due to the high cost. And to get someone to sign up was twice as hard. When ever I phoned for help I was always helped by a professional polite speeking person on the other end of the line.
When I retired my IBO number I never realized that I would have to call them again, Unfortunately I have had to have a replacement part for an item that can only purchased through Quixtar. When I phoned the tone was the same until they found out that I had retired my IBO #. Then the tone changed and I was rudely told I had to become a Customer and have a customer #. I asked if there was a 6 month non compete clause associated with this, The lady said she didn’t know what I was talking about, I explained to her about the 6 month non compete clause and she said she had never heard of it. I bought my part through someone else, Just in case.
I joined TEAM, and have been in love with the system, I have finally found a group with heart, ethics, and a great will to help others achieve thier dreams. And have been able to achieve a level of freedom that Quixtar was never able show me because of the clauses that were installed when we weren’t looking when we auto renewed. The contract was different than the one we signed. I printed off both.
Sorry Quixtar, but TEAM has a superior level of honesty, integrity and faith that you can only hope to achieve. Put your faith in the Lord and the system as it used to be and you too will excell.
Thank you
Ethan Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 10:52 am
You know Tex, Amway didn’t have to create those rules about not competing. I mean, for DECADES no one in Amway was under a non-compete, but then all of a sudden, they put them in the auto-renew process. Amway could’ve not made the rule, or they could’ve let Orrin out from under the rule. Considering their attitude toward him, you’d think they’d do anything to let him go. But it’s obvious that a regard for man-made rules OUTWEIGHS any reverence for what is actually RIGHT. Why can’t you admit that Amway is doing the wrong thing? Why can’t you see the obvious fascism and the blatant departure from the PRINCIPLES of FREE ENTERPRISE? You’re on the wrong team my friend. If you would take your dedication and apply it to the fight for freedom and the fight to serve people the best, you’d be a tribute to the industry.
IBO To Go Says:
April 8th, 2008 at 7:08 am
TexSpin #254 Says:

“kjteam, March 28th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

Nobody is considered property. The non-compete is used in a number of industries.”

Deny it all you want TexSpin, kjteam is right. We were in the court room that day in Grand Rapids and the lawers that represent your beloved Amway called US there property. Period!
Renshi_D Says:
April 8th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Tex,

Secret tool profits?!?!?

Did you just get here from the 1980’s in a time machine? There are no secret tool profits any more. If Amway was really cracking down on tool profits the names Yager, Britt, Foley, and Winters would be the ones on the notice of termination, not Woodward and Brady.

This has very little if anything to do with secret tool profit crackdowns. You can go back to listening to Wham! now.
Tex Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 1:30 am
Deann, April 2nd, 2008 at 5:16 pm

Perhaps Orrin had to pay a large fine. We don’t know, because neither side is allowed to talk about the ruling. I don’t like this aspect of arbitration, but understand why it is used.

Lonny Kenny, April 3rd, 2008 at 3:05 pm

Which bonus withheld, the optional one? Give me a break.

Mark, April 4th, 2008 at 1:40 pm

I haven’t been quiet, the blog has been slow to post.

Dwight, April 6th, 2008 at 9:32 am

Just GO, TEAM!

Ethan, April 7th, 2008 at 10:52 am

The new rules had nothing to do with Orrin, they were in response to TIF.

IBO To Go, April 8th, 2008 at 7:08 am

Have you ever heard of a figure of speech?
Eric (AEM) Says:
April 10th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
jimz 262

“OK, so you are saying that if there was no MonAvie, that TEAM could go merrily on their way and build a tremendous business by marketing the wonderfully generic business materials”. Yes I am.

“So….uhhh….how come that’s not what people are doing”. They are.

“How come when I go out to IBO REBELLION or other pro-TEAM sites everyone is talking about how great life is going to be WHEN they launch out into their next great venture”.

Because those sites are maintained by people who have their own plans. If the only places you get info on what Team is doing are pro-team sites then of course your perception will be distorted.

“Are you saying that the TEAM tools are the formal system? Or are you saying that the tools amplify a formal system (i.e. an MLM business). Not sure what your point is here”.

My point is that having a IBO number and the opportunity to build a business like Quixtar is great but if that’s all you had, it wouldn’t be enough. You also need a formal system of building the LOS and building volume in the LOS. Together they give you the best shot.
JimZ Says:
April 11th, 2008 at 11:48 am
#272 Eric(AEM):

First:

I would appreciate if you could direct me to sites that illustrate the tool business as a standalone business - I am open minded.

Second:

Orrin is undisputedly a very key leader, and his actions clearly reflect what the TEAM tool system would want most of their associates to do. That being the case, and given that you say the motivational/leadership business is a “standalone” business……please explain why Orrin joined MonAvie? People like Tony Robbins never joined another business to move their motivational/leadership business along.

Also, please do not answer “I don’t know you’d have to ask him”. If you have been actively involved in consuming their leadership products, then I believe you could give a “best guess” if you don’t think you can speak for him.

Thanks!
Tex Says:
April 11th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Renshi_D, April 8th, 2008 at 9:17 pm

Ask a typical prospect after seeing the marketing plan if they knew Emeralds and above make several times more from tools than Quixtar. THAT’S my point. Wham! is the sound of that idea sinking into your brain.
Former Ohio IBO Says:
April 14th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Tex Wrote:

Former Ohio IBO, April 1st, 2008 at 9:24 pm

“I’ve read all 45 pages. The decision yesterday only confirmed the changes made to the ADR were inadequate. The fact TEAM broke numerous rules has nothing to do with the ADR process.”

Tex - Against my better judgement (knowing you are incapable of answering a question when theres “spinning” to be done) - I will ask anyway. WHAT RULES WERE BROKEN?
I have seen this question posed here before, with the responses being OPINION rather than fact.
Not having the time or any further inclination to monitor this sorry excuse for a blog, I don’t really expect your reply.
Like I have said previously, I’ll check back in about a year to see who’s left here.
In the meantime,

“GAME ON!”
John Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 3:31 am
Tex #161

I didn’t join TEAM to make money via TEAM and I do not make any money via TEAM. I joined TEAM to apply what I learned to my life outside of TEAM. I went to college also and I didn’t go to college to make money via college. I went to college to apply what I learned to my life outside of college.

The principles work for me and I support you in your pursuit of your dream!
Renshi_D Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Tex,

I think your statement shows more about how YOU saw the plan and how YOU show the plan than other people. By the time I saw the plan - 2001, the system money and the opportunities there were talked about immediately.
IBO To Go Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
TexSpin #274 Says:

“Ask a typical prospect after seeing the marketing plan if they knew Emeralds and above make several times more from tools than Quixtar. THAT’S my point. Wham! is the sound of that idea sinking into your brain.”

Wow! No wonder everyone’s leaving Quixtar. You can get several times more money somewhere else!

Thanks TexSpin. Wham!

This is your brain on Quixtar. Wham!

This is your brain on TexSpin. Wham!
Fred Says:
April 19th, 2008 at 1:45 am
awaiting comments I posted 2 days ago RE non compete I believe I asked Tex if anyone could produce even one sign non compete clause from any IBO
Tex Says:
May 27th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Former Ohio IBO Says:
April 14th, 2008 at 12:35 pm,

Go read the termination letters.

John Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 3:31 am,

You were supposed to be joining TEAM to help you make money via Quixtar. That was one of the many termination violations, TEAM was mispositioning their role.

Renshi_D Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 2:33 pm,

Then how do you explain the TEAM Opens I saw in 2007? How do you explain Ron Simmons going on record stating Quixtar wouldn’t allow them to share tool scam profits?

IBO To Go Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 4:27 pm,

You can make a lot more money doing lots of different things than Quixtar, like robbing a bank.

Thanks IBO To Go. Wham!

This is your brain on TEAM. Wham!

This is your brain on IBO To Go. Wham!

Fred Says:
April 19th, 2008 at 1:45 am,

Welcome to the 21st century. You can commit yourself to a contract via electronic agreement/signature.

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