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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
January 25th, 2008 @ 4:00 pm ET…
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You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
Buy ativan no prescription, It's been quiet here lately. Not uneventful—just quiet, New York NY N.Y. . Colorado CO Colo. , And we apologize if seems we stayed quiet too long. It wasn't intentional, where to buy cheap ativan. Ordering ativan no rx, There were no big breaking news headlines to bring to you. And there was also at least a little fatigue after months of heated—and healthy—debate on this site, buy ativan no prescription. Our friend AMBA even ended up with his arm in a sling, cheap ativan online legally. Ordering ativan online cheap, But we are back, and we will be back more often in weeks to come, South Dakota SD . Ordering ativan, For now, let's catch up on a couple of things, Missouri MO Mo. . Ativan sale, TEAM: Many of the disputes that occupied this space over the past few months are now in arbitration. Buy ativan no prescription, Good to see our commitment to arbitration supported by so many courts.
NEVADA: One thing we can mention: As noted in an earlier post, ativan over the counter, Maine ME Me. , we are pursuing a lawsuit against TEAM in Nevada, the state where the company is incorporated, order ativan without prescription. Illinois IL Ill. , We think they have a lot to answer for, including their violation of Quixtar's rights to its LOS, cheap ativan no rx. Ativan pills, What they are mostly doing in response is trying to wiggle out of answering questions about their plans to harm Quixtar business owners. They can't wiggle forever, αγοράσετε ativan.
TEXAS: We noted earlier that we cleaned up in most of the (too many) cases in Texas, buy ativan no prescription. District of Columbia DC D.C. , More recently, a federal magistrate dissolved a preliminary injunction that had been granted to our friend and correspondent Ron Simmons, generic ativan. Jotta ativan verkossa, Seemed right to us. This case will also now go into arbitration, Oklahoma OK Okla. . Køb discount ativan, But the news in North America isn't all about conflict -- not by a long stretch. ELSEWHERE IN NORTH AMERICA Buy ativan no prescription, , we:
- introduced two new products lines—Simply Nutrilite and Artistry essentials—with ad campaigns;
- rolled out a historic $60 million in QBI and offered new benefits like free shipping;
- unveiled Quixtar University with an ever-expanding roster of online courses;
- redesigned the Quixtar website; and
- launched a webcast series to update our IBOs on our transition from Quixtar to Amway Global.
The Opportunity Zone, which turns 1 next week, makes for great conversation on the business.
UK: Closing arguments in the UK trial ended December 8, Texas TX Tex. . Køb billige ativan, The court may rule anytime. However, φτηνές φαρμακείο ativan, out of respect for the court and British legal custom we will not comment on the case until the judge issues his ruling.
ELSEWHERE IN THE WORLD, we are wrapping up a good fiscal year, and looking forward to sharing the news in a few weeks.
We're sure there's more. We'll be in touch.
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Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
January 25th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
When might you do in the United States (because it is the right thing to do) what you did in the UK because the government forced you to? That is, when will you put a stop to the WWDB kingpins deceptions and exaggerations at their FEDs, Dream Nights, etc; their so called 2-5 year plan to financial freedom; their showing of hummers and mansions and claiming it is because of Quixtar. You are well aware that the vast majority of their income is from their so called motivation businesses. Why do you keep pretending that you really care about the young IBO, the single mom IBO when you know they are systematically deceived?
January 25th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
thanks for the updates, and my best wishes to AMBA. Regarding the UK, that comment is a comment and all that is really needed. Even being told you’re still waiting like the rest of us is consoling for nervous IBOs.
You didn’t mention India? I hear the Nutrilite problem got sorted (permanently or temporarily?), but Andra Pradesh is still an issue? And there’s official rumblings in another European market?
January 25th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Thanks for the update!
Ros
January 25th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Thanks for the updates.
I’ve been accused by some of my fellow blogging “friends” as responsible for shutting down your blog.
At least one even suggested I should be “banned” from this blog.
Now who would step in, in my place, and post so your moderators could blow their coffee through their noses?
January 25th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
I would suggest dropping the Nevada lawsuit, as it seems to have many of same items that the Kent County Michigan judge didn’t buy prior to TEAM’s last function in Louisville. The less Q/A is in court the better.
I would rather see non-binding mediation vs binding arbitration for contracts.
For an other non-heated view of what is been going on see:
http://ronsimmonsspeaks.blogspot.com/
January 25th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
I cannot believe you are still trying to claim my friends and family as your property!!!!!
January 25th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Didn’t Ron Simmons resign his business? If so how can it be a victory to have an injunction disolved after the business it was protecting is disolved.
Kind of a stretch.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
#2 ibofightback, no headlines from India, but we will keep you posted.
#7 Jerad Smith, we asked to have the injunction dissolved, Simmons opposed, the judge ruled in our favor.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
From Ron’s blog…
“There was a hearing on this issue on Friday, January 18th before the Honorable U.S. District Magistrate Judge Donald Bush where Judge Bush decided to “vacate” the injunction as no longer pertinent. He did say that this DID NOT release Quixtar from any violations they may have caused prior to last Friday. As you know we feel they violated the injunction by refusing to pay us and another plaintiff in the case our Achievers or QBI bonus. We have filed this complaint with the Arbitrator in our case, retired Federal Judge Robert Faulkner.”
Doesn’t sound “cleaned up” to me…
January 25th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
john #1,
It isn’t just WWDB, it is most of the other groups as well.
ibofb #2,
What’s an AMBA? Are you speaking of Sweden?
Ros #3,
Isn’t life wonderful?
Utah #5,
I would suggest if you don’t know the details and aren’t a lawyer, you keep your lawsuit opinions to yourself.
What would you suggest happens AFTER non-binding mediation? Go to the court system? Binding arbitration? Rock, paper, scissors?
ben #6,
I can’t believe you are still trying to claim that A/Q claims your friends and family as their property!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 25th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
Jerad #7/9,
Ron Simmons is gone, that’s a victory.
All Quixtar did was withhold some of the OPTIONAL bonus money AFTER Ron was a clear antagonist, which clearly violates the rule not to damage the reputation of A/Q, by working within the required conciliation/arbitration process rather than the public legal system.
January 26th, 2008 at 12:07 am
Tex#11,
Isn’t that one of the problems you now face Tex? ALL payments are now done at the sole discresion of Q. ALL payments are now OPTIONAL bonus money.
January 26th, 2008 at 12:12 am
Thanks, IBOFB, and welcome back everyone. Since it’s been a while, please let us know whether you encounter any technical issues with the blog.
Oh, and Tex: AMBA = Alticor Media Blog Administrator, a.k.a. yours truly. ‘Corporate Communications’ goes by CC sometimes. Hope that clears up any confusion.
January 26th, 2008 at 12:23 am
Thanks for this news about the UK issue!
But why is decision-making taking so long?
Esp. when the hearings were concluded quite quickly!
And what’s your comment on the situation in India?
Would there be more legal roadblocks or is the highway pretty clear?
January 26th, 2008 at 8:47 am
We in the UK/ROI appreciate your few comments and understand fully the ‘no comment’ stance while awaiting the court decision but what we don’t understand and are really annoyed about is the total lack of communication lack of concern about keeping groups together, after all lines of sponsorship are groups of ABOs who can’t even have a meeting without company approval. I think it’s about time you took hold of that bunch of so called senior management in the UK/ROI and retrained them in communication skills.
Many great companies and great people have been lost due to lack of communication - sort it out.
January 26th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Jerad #12,
If you ever bothered to read the rules, the TEAM folks got their PV/BV related bonuses, just not the optional extras. That’s not a problem, that’s Quixtar enforcing the rules. Do you think they should pay OPTIONAL bonuses to folks who sue them up and down and thus damage Quixtar’s reputation (which is specifically mentioned in the rules as a reason for withholding the OPTIONAL portion of the bonuses)? I suggest you get a clue.
AMBA #13,
As opposed to AMBA (Amway Media Blog Administrator)? There is at least one thread that appears to be closed to new comments. Is this intentional? Arm in a sling? You mean literally or figuratively? If physically, must have been an accident, surely not this “mild mannered” blog, right?
Chaitanya #14,
I assume the complexity of the case is at least part of the reason. It was also probably affected by the Christmas Holidays. I assume, as in a criminal process, the longer this goes on makes it more likely an Amway friendly decision is forthcoming, with various extra stipulations/requirements. If it were a complete shutdown, it probably would have been decided already.
It’s hard to predict “legal roadblocks”. Who would have guessed the TEAM blowup? They left thousands of IBO’s behind without any warning, then turned around and started cranking out lawsuits like Nutrilite cranks out Double X pills.
The most important thing A/Q could do to minimize legal roadblocks is bring honesty and transparency to the business model. Namely, ensure prospects and IBO’s understand how much tool money is being made by upline. This is by far the largest problem this business faces. Apparently, A/Q already IS doing some of this, as the IBS and BWW (and to a lesser extent, TEAM) shutdowns in the UK have indicated.
January 26th, 2008 at 10:30 am
tex #10
I guess you didn’t read the intro where they talk about LOS which are my friends and family. That they have rights to them, which would make them property!!!
They are people and they live in a free country last time I checked!!!
January 26th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Tex says :
Utah #5,
I would suggest if you don’t know the details and aren’t a lawyer, you keep your lawsuit opinions to yourself.
Absolutely precious! Do tell, have you ever considered TAKING your own advice?
January 26th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
ben #17,
I read the intro, have you read the rules?
We’ve been over this, several times. Try reading for comprehension this time.
Sure, the rules require you to sit out 6 months and not prospect known IBO’s for 2 years. However, don’t you think (not the end of the question, please keep reading) you will “bump” into your family and friends occasionally? When they ask you why you quit, tell them and tell them what you’re doing instead. If they are interested, they can join you. No rules broken. Grow up.
These are the easy ones, it’s the people in your group you don’t know as well and won’t bump into from time to time that are the issue. However, if some of your relatives and friends see THEM from time to time, the same principle above applies. Keep in mind there are 300 million people in this country. If you can’t pick up your entire group again, big deal. Plus, more than half of them quit in the first year anyway, so what’s the big deal?
Get over yourself. Read the rules.
January 26th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
G#18,
Yes, I’ve thought about it.
However, I know too much about the tool scam to let it continue scamming people.
Do you think Quixtar should drop the Nevada lawsuit as well?
January 26th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Tex#16,
Did you not read Q’s response? ALL payments are made at the sole discretion of Q. As in not legally binding and optional.
Look, we can disagree on opinions. But facts need to remain undisputed.
January 26th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Tex, #20
What tool scam are you talking about?
Is there some type of deception involving the tools?
Wow. Who knew?
January 26th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Team intended to sue (orginally) b/c Q/A would not show results (regarding looking into lowering prices to reasonable levels)… Incompetence or or disregard? Q/A promised to look into the issue then never delivered (either lower prices or an explanation as to why it was not possible).
Then Q/A asked Orrin, et al, to fall in line or resign. Fall in line with a company that says its own IBO rep board (I forget the name) does not have power… We resigned. Heck, Q/A even said “Team, just go.” Now we’re being sued b/c we did… How does that work?
I have not competed and my six-month non-complete clause goes through April. I am honoring that even though Q/A sues us… In April I WILL compete.
January 26th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Jerad #21,
Which “response” are you talking about? Provide a link.
January 26th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Tex#24
“From: Julie.Savara@quixtar.com
To: TNZETTEL@YAHOO.COM
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2007 2:53:46 PM
Subject: QBI Bonus
QBI money and trips are offered and paid at Quixtar’s sole discretion. If you would like to appeal Quixtar’s decision not to pay, you may seek conciliation through Quixtar’s dispute resolution process.
Julie Savara”
And there you have it.
January 26th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
TEAMster #23,
Nice try to reinvent history and reality.
TEAM sued because they wanted out of the 6 month waiting period, and wanted to damage Quixtar’s image, which they thought would attract even more IBO’s to their new tool scam. Quixtar announced a transformation several months prior to TEAM getting booted. Part of the transformation was lowering prices. TEAM was terminated because they wanted to keep breaking the rules they had been breaking for at least 6 years, according to their termination letters.
The IBOAI doesn’t have power because they don’t deserve power, they are a bunch of lying cowardly “kingpin” tool scammers.
Of course Quixtar said “TEAM, just GO!”, but if you read the article under the headline (is this the first headline you’ve ever seen that was 100% accurate of the rest of the story?), you would know Quixtar was getting rid of the TEAM leadership, not the IBO’s.
TEAM is getting sued because they sued first, which is not allowed according the rules they couldn’t follow in the first place, so no surprise there. That’s how it works.
Does that mean when April comes around you’ll also go away and stop polluting this blog?
January 26th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
rockette #22,
The question is who doesn’t know about the tool scam, which includes most IBO’s and prospects.
January 26th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Tex#26,
You are a funny little man. How do you know that TEAM sued for the purposes of damaging Q’s rep? And what tool scam, new or otherwise?
And why, if TEAM was breaking rules for 6 years, would Q openly honor them with awards?
And BTW, what ever happened to that price evaluation the IBOIA board and Q has done? It kinda disappeared…
January 26th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Jerad #25,
Thank you for proving my point. As I said originally, Quixtar paid the PV/BV bonus, but not the QBI/trip rewards. Any other easy questions?
January 26th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
“What they are mostly doing in response is trying to wiggle out of answering questions about their plans to harm Quixtar business owners”.
It just seems like wiggling. Team cannot answer questions about their plans to harm Quixtar business “owners” because they have none.
And if you want to say the CA suit filed by memebers of Team hurt Quixtar’s image and thus the “business’” of it’s IBO’s consider a few things: the number of lawsuits that have been filed against A/A/Q in the past. The many sites that speak against A/A/Q. And then Quixtar’s response to the NBC story on the Britt and Yager groups. I don’t recall them having one.
Then google “Ri-Ja Corporation” what you find might sound very familar to what’s going on now.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Eric #30,
Most of the older lawsuits werern’t governed by the newer arbitration requirements, that’s one of the major reasons A/Q came up with the arbitration requirements in the first place.
No plans? Then why ask for 60 days instead of 6 months? No plans? You mean Orrin and Co. were going to leave all of their loyal IBO’s behind? You can’t be serious.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Just a refresher.
Promises To Keep
“While Van Andel and Devos were doing very well through the 1950’s, however the condition of Nutrilite Products as a corporation was deteriorating. A long period of internal warfare in the home office in California left the company weakened in considerable disarray. Distributors like Devos and VanAndel were concerned about the lack of strong corporate leadership, and tried to intervene to help solve problems but nothing worked. It became more and more difficult for Nutrilite distributor to operate effectively, and the growth of their business slowed.”
“The two partners finally decided the Nutrilites corporate problems were such that it could no longer be depended on to provide leadership. Their primary obligation, they felt, was to the groups of distributors whom they have brought into THEIR business. They had a commitment to these people, many of whom had left their jobs to build full time businesses, and sold them on a vision on a free and prosperous future. Those promises were not to be taken lightly, they had very little choice.
“So in early 1959 the two partners made a bold, carefully calculated gamble. They sat in the basement office of VanAndels home and officially organized a new company. They cut the tie with Nutrilite, began plans to develop their own product line, and personally pledged to their distributors that they would build and direct a new enterprise in which their business would always be secure.”
January 27th, 2008 at 12:20 am
For this one, I actually prefer the sequel.
Promises To Keep II
“The Woodward and Brady were doing very well through the early 2000’s, however the price of Alticor products and the leadership at the corporation was deteriorating. A long period of denial and the inability to make the tough decisions at the home office in Michigan left the company weakened in considerable disarray. Distributors like Woodward and Brady were concerned about the lack of strong corporate leadership, and tried to intervene to help solve problems but nothing worked. It became more and more difficult for Quixtar / Amway distributors to operate effectively, and the growth of their business slowed.”
“The two partners finally decided the Amway corporate problems were such that it could no longer be depended on to provide leadership. Their primary obligation, they felt, was to the groups of “Independent Business Owners” whom they have brought into THEIR business. They had a commitment to these people, many of whom had left their jobs to build full time businesses, and sold them on a vision on a free and prosperous future. Those promises were not to be taken lightly, they had very little choice.
“So in late 2007, the two partners made a bold, carefully calculated gamble. They sat in the office of Woodwards’ home and officially decided to leave the company. They cut the tie with Amway, honored their six month non-compete, and personally pledged to their distributors that they would build and direct a new enterprise in which their business would always be secure.”
January 27th, 2008 at 2:49 am
Hey David # 33,
Chaitanya from India here!
I hv been hearing the same things for sometime now! Every now and then someone says they are gonna build a greater, bigger, more profitable enterprise than Amway!
I am still waiting!
And I know I’ll have to wait forever!
However there are several major differences between that situation and this latest one with TEAM!
The most important was Rich and Jay never fought Nutrilite - they came out and built a new company!
They never attacked Nutrilite - ever!
They never handed over a lawsuit to Nutrilite!
Nutrilite never said they broke rules too!
There was no major animosity between them!
They copied Nutrilite’s plan too!
Even they were wrong then - they thought they couldn’t sell health supplements coz of low awareness in the people!
And a few decades later Nutrilite has turned out to be the biggest brand in terms of turnover and profitability for Amway!
Even if you hated what the corp. did to you now, you should always be thankful to them for giving you so much for all these years!
That takes character & integrity!
What TEAM leaders did shows oppurtunism and escapism! To build something great needs values and inspiration! You can’t build a great corporation with revengefulness and hatred towards another! You can’t build a great company just to bring down another!
Rich and Jay built Amway based on these principles, they didn’t build it to avenge Nutrilite!
“Donot fall for the words of an artisan when he says he has 20 years of experience while in fact he has only one year of experience twenty times!” - Anonymous
January 27th, 2008 at 3:25 am
Hi ParroTex,
Still reveling in your own thoughtless jabber.
January 27th, 2008 at 3:59 am
Tex 31,
How is giving people a choice going to hurt anyone?
January 27th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Well nothing has changed on this site Tex has the answer for everything. And still has never built this business or any business for that mater. And Q/A will not and does not wont to fix the problems with the business. But if any one wants to make a business that is better for the people Q/A will come after them with all there $ and wont to destroy them!!
I know Tex you will have an answer for this BUT I do not care what you think or the lack of thinking that goes on in the brain of yours. Try doing something with your life not living on this blog. This blog will go on with out you.
January 27th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Chaitanya #34
Based on that response I don’t think you understand the situation very well at all.
January 27th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
David #32/3,
How about a little Paul Harvey (the rest of the story)?
After breaking various rules for 6 years, Orrin and Brady, and Co. were given yet another chance to follow the rules. When they declined, they were rightly terminated.
They tried to break another rule on their way out the door, and asked for a 60 day instead of 6 month non-compete, and were laughed out of the Amway offices.
They already had an “illegal pyramid” lawsuit in hand, and broke even more rules, by operating outside of the arbitration process they contractually signed up for as well as using confidential IBOAI information.
Thankfully, their tool scamming days are over. They are currently being ground up and spit out by the arbitration process.
January 27th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Chaitanya #34,
Excellent points.
Torrey #35,
I think you misspelled “Tory”.
Stay with TEAM, the U(n)K(nown).
Eric #36,
You have plenty of choices. But one of them does NOT include to violate the rules, unless you want to be hammered.
Ron #37,
You want some cheese with your whine?
January 27th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Eric #38,
Based on that response I know you don’t understand the situation very well at all.
January 27th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Hey Eric # 38,
Re-read my post with your reading glasses on your eyes and you’ll clearly see what I meant!
#1)
Rich and Jay thought that selling ‘cheaper’ ‘easier-to-sell’ homecare products would be easier than selling ‘overpriced’ and ‘difficult-to-sell’ Nutrilite supplements!
Ater a few decades they were forced to aquire Nutrilite coz what they thought was ‘difficult-to-sell’ and ‘overpriced’ has become a top brand!
Similarily maybe few decades down the road TEAM will be using Amway as a supplier again!
#2)
And as far as building a ‘new’ business with ‘cheaper’ ‘easier-to-sell’ products is concerned - I hv seen all those three hundred thirty million companies say they are gonna beat Amway!
I’m still waiting and my history teacher told me that I’ll have to wait atleast 2 billion years more!
Who do you think I am to wait that long? the Himalayas??
January 27th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Tex 39
You believe everything Alticor tells you don’t you? The facts don’t support any of that. Only the Alticor story does.
January 28th, 2008 at 9:10 am
Eric #43,
No, I don’t believe everything Alticor tells me. In fact, I have a disagreement with them right now concerning upline support, but we’re working through it.
Are you saying what was said in the termination letter was a lie, yet Orrin and Co. hasn’t protested? Give me a break.
How about the 60 day request? Made up again? How about a compound fracture?
Initially refusing to arbitrate? The lawsuit is evidence of that, plus A/Q has stated long after the lawsuit started Orrin and Co. refused to go to arbitration. Now we’re talking a full Evil Knievel road crash with multiple compound fractures.
Just GO, ERIC.
January 28th, 2008 at 11:47 am
[…] 28th, 2008 by Shaun Carter Quixtar posted its first message since November on its Media Blog and it has discussed something we already know. Mainly that […]
January 28th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Chaitanya
you’ve seen all those 330,000,000 companies say they are gonna beat Amway huh? Your history teacher said you’d have to wait 2,000,000,000 years to see one beat them?
You’re right I don’t know what I’m talking about.
January 28th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Tex #18 -
So, you acknowledge you have “considered” taking your own advice?
Does the balance of your post (following “however”) also indicate that, upon thoughtful reflection, you have decided your own advice (ie, not offering opinions regarding legal proceedings here when not an attorney) is not worth “taking”?
I trust you’d know better than any other person whether your advice is worth the taking on issues … so you shouldn’t be upset when others don’t … they apparently follow the cardinal rule “Who you are speaks so loudly that what you say I cannot hear”.
January 29th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Tex # 39 says..”Thankfully, their tool scamming days are over. They are currently being ground up and spit out by the arbitration process…”
What about all the others? Britt and Yager just to name a few. Yager invented the tools system that is being used today and profited by all who know, follow, and love him. He even influences groups and profits from tool sales to them that are not in his LOS. I know for a fact as the group I used to be in was not in his LOS. But his tools were pushed on us to buy, and he even helped the pins in this group out by making their own tapes to sale for them by his production company run by his sons.
Hey…CC/AMBA…How about going after this same kind of problem here in the U.S with both fists as you have in the U.K.?
You guys would not be afraid of Dex and Bill would you? Dexter used to brag about how big he was and how large his groups and reach was and how he would pull all his groups out from under you guys if things did not go right. I heard this myself in my former Double Diamonds meetings in the late 90’s and early 2000 when Dexter would come in and speak.
I await your answers (CC/AMBA).
By the way…in all your bragging about all your wins and whats going on around the world, why don’t you bring us up to date on the lawsuit agains you by Steward and Hart…? How is that one going for you?
And I here that you guys are back in court in Florida again with two new cases against you…one of them a Federal case…
Comments? Cat got your tongue?
Do tell…
Former IBO
January 29th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Keep up the good work - I’ve seen the good, the bad, and the very ugly in this business BUT . . .
It continues to be a people business. And people can be nasty, lying and cheating whenever money is at stake. As for Q, well, guys thanks for the opportunity. We make of our work as our sole responsibility. And I know about honor, truth, and the American Way - I’ll fight for my right to be what I want to be as long as it is ethical, honorable, and legal. I just ask that those that I encounter during the struggle respect those rights and help me become a better person, both spiritually as well as humanly possible. There are rewards in it for the right people - Q brings all of this together and partners with those that subscribe to its ethics and rules.
Everyone else is not welcome and that is the way it should be. Go Q, Go A/A
January 29th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
chaitanya 42
I don’t think you quite understand…
Other suppliers have been courting TEAM for years trying to steal us away from alticor, and now they have gotten their chance.
January 29th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
tex 19
their are no ppl in my group that I don’t know or talk to on a regular basis.
Most of them quit before I did and the rest shortly after hearing that 40% of the top IBOs resigned.
This fight wasn’t just for us, it was for all the IBOs in the industry who had a hard time with the pricing structure. This fight will help you whether or not you leave Alticor or stay. You will see prices more in line with the market. When that happens you can thank TEAM and the UK…
January 30th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
It’s amazing that we can get so worked up over something now that will probably be better for everyone in the end. The Leaders of the Team can do things they want to do that they couldn’t do under the umbrella of Quixtar/Amway which in all regards is fair since Quixtar/Amway can make there own rules because it is their business. We are all our own person and will have to decide which direction we want to go whether it is with Quixtar/Amway, Team, another business venture, or maybe just do nothing. When it comes down to it, it’s a personal choice. Why we get negative with each other, because of this I don’t know we all still have a common goal and that is to acheive more than we currently have or we would all just be satisfied and not try to build a business. I wish everyone the best of luck no matter what they do, as for me and my household we are with the TEAM and we know that the leadership there will take us far beyond anything we imagined.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
“NEVADA: One thing we can mention: As noted in an earlier post, we are pursuing a lawsuit against TEAM in Nevada, the state where the company is incorporated. We think they have a lot to answer for, including their violation of Quixtar’s rights to its LOS. What they are mostly doing in response is trying to wiggle out of answering questions about their plans to harm Quixtar business owners. They can’t wiggle forever.”
For those of you who don’t know it, Quixtar sent Process Servers to deliver subpeonas to various Team members in the effort to stop this “wiggling” out of answering questions. Many of those subpeonaed have attorneys on record–sending process servers to interrupt families’ activities is just more proof that Quixtar/Amway has no moral or ethical conscience.
Violating Quixtar’s rights to its LOS? PUH-LEEZE! Uncle Mike called ME to ask if he could join my new business. Too bad I don’t have one. Yet.
I deeply regret that I was ever in business with these low-lifes. Those of you who think we all deserve what we got; well, just wait.
January 31st, 2008 at 3:09 am
Quixtar Amway,
It would be in your best interest to quite issuing orders and rules to all people unless you order them to yourselves. We in the public believe you should follow the free enterprise system and let all who would like to leave, leave with their dignity and yours. You should pay bonuses you stated and go on with your business. On a second note Im in a position to look at many companies and Ive found many things in your company that should worry you more than worrying about others. An inward perspective such as “tool kingpins” should be at the top of your list. If we in the political scene have the chance to look at how all your affiliates who run cd and function companies run we would find them illegally run in a pyramidal style. So Im sayin, fix your own problems first and then look at others. thanks
February 1st, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Shaun #45,
The major reason I see for the lawsuit in Nevada is to get a view of all of the name/corporation “dancing” that has been going on with Orrin. The lawsuit should reveal what has been going on behind the scenes, for use in their arbitration proceedings and perhaps further court action. I think A/Q should keep going forward. When it’s over, they will be able to tell the whole TEAM story, and eventually the prospects won’t care.
February 1st, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Eric #46,
Glad we can agree you don’t know what you’re talking about.
G #47,
If I were you, I would be betting on me. Are you familiar with what has been happening in India and the UK?
Former IBO #48,
I agree, and have said many times, the work remaining is significant. What news do YOU have about the lawsuits you mentioned?
February 1st, 2008 at 1:55 pm
ben #50/1,
Then GO BEN, just GO! If you know and talk to all of the people in your group, what’s your problem? Don’t ALL of them know about your situation? Since they quit before you did, now you can be their downline! Go TEAM! You weren’t “fighting” (I don’t like that term, but you and the Democrats use it constantly) for me. There were already enough changes with product pricing in the UK and probably other areas of the world, and were expected to come to the US as part of their already announced transformation plans. Orrin and Co. just couldn’t handle the heat of the Amway change and clamp down on the tool scam, so they jumped ship. Too bad they just didn’t slink off into the gutter, they had to try to drag the rest of us through their filth and dirt. No thanks. JUST GO, TEAM! The UK regulators had a lot more to do with reduced prices than TEAM did.
February 1st, 2008 at 2:08 pm
David B #52,
That sounds so wonderful and sweet, too bad your “leaders” had to start a baseless lawsuit and steal confidential information.
Marnie #53,
Just GO, TEAM! You obviously didn’t understand how papers are normally served. Now you do.
Sam Brownback #54,
Is this THE Sam Brownback, U.S. Senator from Kansas?
February 1st, 2008 at 7:42 pm
David #32 and 33,
Well said. Looks familiar.
Peace.
February 1st, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Chaitanya #34,
How do you know all these “facts” your repeating?
February 1st, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Eric # 46 and Ben # 50,
Firstly let me remind you something!
Quixtar/Amway is not a ‘Supplier’ - It’s the opportunity!
It’s TEAM that’s a supplier of training and tools to those in this opportunity!
In India it happens every day - A major FMCG corp. in India launched it’s direct selling business a few years back - with ‘cheaper’ and ‘easier-to-sell’ products & a revolutionary business plan -
they said it was going to be bigger than Amway -some top Amway IBOs jumped into it, too!
Four years have passed since that launch and this new business with ‘cheaper’ ‘easier-to-sell-products’ and a great business plan hasn’t even crossed 100 crore rupees!
Now talk about beating Amway!
In the US my cousin called me a few years back abt this new company with a new product - some mangosteen or something - telling me it was going to be the bigger than Amway!
And last year one of my american friend called me abt this new company - that has launched in 40 countries at once - telling me that it would out-grow Amway in a matter of years!
And you know abt the Diamnond that quit a few years ago to float his own company!
‘To jump across the 4 continents and the seven seas one has to decode the rain & unravel the wind’
To build a great business too takes the same kind of courage, dedication , truthfulness and integrity!
That’s what the founders of Amway had!
And by what the corp seems to be planning, it looks like it’ll be hard to beat them in the next 50years as well!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 am
the title says “while we were out” ——– well from what I can see you are still out. I thank God everyday that I am out of q/a and leading a better life with TEAM.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Tex 44,
tex 39
[My words are in brackets]
After breaking various rules for 6 years, Orrin and Brady, and Co. were given yet another chance to follow the rules. When they declined, they were rightly terminated.
[First of all I don’t believe Team had been breaking rules for six years. In 2003 Quixtar invited Orrin and Laurie to be the keynote speakers at Quixtar Live. So if you believe they were in poor standing with Quixtar for 6 years, how do you reconcile the fact they were asked to be keynote speakers at a Quixtar event? Additionally, they resigned before they were terminated. They declined to follow the rules of the business they had just quit.]
They tried to break another rule on their way out the door, and asked for a 60 day instead of 6 month non-compete, and were laughed out of the Amway offices.
[They were told by Quixtar they would be able to discuss a amicable separation. The suggest was part of what they proposed. So it’s not breaking another rule, it’s engaging in the amicable separation discussion.]
They already had an “illegal pyramid” lawsuit in hand, and broke even more rules, by operating outside of the arbitration process they contractually signed up for as well as using confidential IBOAI information.
[The lawsuit called into question the legality of the business and therefore the legality of the contracts themselves. Like you point out below they are in arbitration, so the whole “they refused to arbitrate’ thing is silly. And what confidential IBOAI information did they use exactly?
tool scamming days are over. They are currently being ground up and spit out by the arbitration process.
[How do you know what is happening in the arbitration process?]
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Chaitanya 61
let me remind you of something, the opportunity lies in the people, otherwise known as market share. TEAM is the fastest growing most loyal market share in the industry, which is why the other groups joined us in the first place. Quixtar definately has a opportunity as well but without market share, it becomes merely a supplier with rebates and partner stores which are also hooked up with many other mlm businesses out there.
tex 58
3.4% retail sales is hardly a baseless lawsuit!!
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:18 pm
tex 57
Isn’t WHY WE FIGHT a post on this blog???
February 3rd, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Chaitanya,
Simple logic. . Below is how the Amway site defines Multilevel Marketing.
“Multilevel or “network” marketing is a lawful and legitimate business method that uses a network of independent business owners to sell consumer products supplied by an established company”.
To repeat. . “. . sell consumer products SUPPLIED by an established company”.
If you sign up with Herbalife, guess who the established company is who supplies the products? Herbalife. If you sign up with Amway, guess who the supplier is then? It’s Amway.
February 3rd, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Tex # 16…At the bottom of your post you said this..
“The most important thing A/Q could do to minimize legal roadblocks is bring honesty and transparency to the business model. Namely, ensure prospects and IBO’s understand how much tool money is being made by upline. This is by far the largest problem this business faces. Apparently, A/Q already IS doing some of this, as the IBS and BWW (and to a lesser extent, TEAM) shutdowns in the UK have indicated.”
I have a suggestion…one maybe you haven`t thought of. Since Amway was able to cut prices up to 67% in the UK, don`t you agree that maybe…they also should disclose to the north american ibo`s the fact that although they share a whopping 25% with us…They are in fact pocketing the other 75%? Seems to me picking on tool companies who share 80 to 90% of the profits is just a cover up to keep the public eye off of the real scam…The products. Hell if they DID share a fair amount on the products, there wouldn`t be such a need for the tool companies because people would be able to sponser because of the good business oportunity…. Hmmm bet you never thought of that did you Tex? Or maybe you do know this and that is why you have been so desperately trying to keep the focus on the tool companies??
February 3rd, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Brad #60,
I think the ball is in your court to prove him wrong. For example, can you find any statements or lawsuit Rich and Jay made against Nutrilite? I can find them for Orrin and Co.
glenn #62,
If you’re with TEAM, you’re already out…and out to lunch, by the way. Just GO, TEAM.
Eric #63,
Easy. Orrin and Co. never protested that point on their termination letter. If untrue, Orrin’s lawyers would have been all over that statement. It’s obvious to me Quixtar was trying to “rehabilitate” them, and it didn’t work. Don’t you think Quixtar should have given them more than one chance to fix their problems? Especially if their group was growing? I also am not concerned about the technicality of them quitting or getting terminated. The important point is they are GONE. Just GO, TEAM.
Too bad what Orrin and Co. called “amicable” Quixtar considered “breaking the rules”. So do I. Orrin and Co. were so familiar with breaking the rules, I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t realize how ridiculous of a request that was, it’s just par for the course. It’s called hubris. Look it up. Just GO, TEAM.
A tricky legal maneuver, but “the lawsuit called into question the legality of the business and therefore the legality of the contracts themselves” was a cheap lawyer trick. Nothing more. They KNEW how arbitration works, and they didn’t want to go there. Plus, they wanted the publicity, so they could attract attention to their “new and improved” tool scam. No, “the whole “they refused to arbitrate’ thing is silly” is not silly. This statement was made by Quixtar several months after August 9th. Regarding your question, “And what confidential IBOAI information did they use exactly?”, look it up, it’s in the IBOAI lawsuit against TEAM, and can be found on the freetheibo.com site.
I don’t know what’s happening, but I would be willing to bet it ain’t pretty for Orrin and Co.
February 3rd, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Tex, you say that the UK action is more responsible for Amway’s reduction in prices than the Team lawsuit…why is that a good thing??? Although Amway said they were transforming their business, they never said anything about lowering prices, did they? Perry Barrister needs to add another reason to his “Ten Reasons why Tex is an Idiot” list…
http://barristerquixtarlawsuit.blogspot.com/2008/01/top-ten-reasons-why-tex-is-idiot.html
Reason no. 11, Tex is proud that Amway lowered their prices because of the UK action, not the Team lawsuit. Talk about arguing about who is the tallest midget…
February 4th, 2008 at 4:28 am
Why do people even pay one iota of mind to “TEX”? This individual is nothing but a third rate “hind end clown” from “Timbucktoo”.
Go back to your cell, TEX. I’m sure the warden is looking for you. Infact, you spend some quality time with the Van Andel’s and DeVos while you’re in there!
February 4th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
#54
Glad to see that the U.S Senate is now looking into the affairs of Amway! And this blog site!
February 6th, 2008 at 11:23 am
ben #64,
The other groups joined you because you had a slicker tool scam. You had the constantly changing “Top 50″ tape/CD’s being sold at full price per tape/CD, you had weekly open meetings, you had Turbocharged testosterone overdosed speakers and “leaders”, etc. You flamed up and burned out. You’re no longer a factor. Just GO, TEAM.
I think it’s basis for a lawsuit as well. I would love to take the lying cowardly “kingpins” to court for lying about retailing not being required, but I have to take them to arbitration, where the rules and unconscionable (a federal judge’s term) arbitration process would be like running into a brick wall.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:31 am
ben #65,
What’s your point?
Eric #66,
Does Quixtar EVER claim that is ALL they do?
Dreamweaver #67,
I’ve commented on that issue before. I think there are pricing issues, but this is a distant second to the outrageous amount of tool scam profit made by upline. Paying 80-90% back out and lying about the source of your profit is the issue. When the #1 issue is closed, there will be a new #1, and I think product pricing will become #1, but for now it is a distant #2. There are plenty of competitively priced products to choose from. My advice, don’t buy the products that are too expensive, and Quixtar will have to either drop the price or the product. Problem fixed.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Bradley #69,
I didn’t say it was a good thing, I just said that is how it happened.
The UK regulators started their actions way prior to the August 9th TEAM fiasco.
I would prefer IBO’s put pressure on Quixtar to get lower prices, just as I think IBO’s should put pressure on the upline to lower tool prices.
You can find my response to your “Top 10/11″ list here: https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=7395124008407193399&postID=3494899473155438547, the January 31, 2008 11:41 PM post.
I don’t like big government, but sometimes governmental actions are necessary, because the citizens can’t/won’t do the right thing.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Marcus #70,
Funny you mention that, Marcus. I’m expecting a Van Andel and/or DeVos to make a call on my cell(phone) any day now….
IBO To Go #71,
We don’t know if that was the real Sam Brownback.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Tex #73 you wrote this in reply to my post #67
“I’ve commented on that issue before. I think there are pricing issues, but this is a distant second to the outrageous amount of tool scam profit made by upline. Paying 80-90% back out and lying about the source of your profit is the issue. When the #1 issue is closed, there will be a new #1, and I think product pricing will become #1, but for now it is a distant #2. There are plenty of competitively priced products to choose from. My advice, don’t buy the products that are too expensive, and Quixtar will have to either drop the price or the product. Problem fixed.”
I have several issues with your answer. First,tool companies are not allowed to disclose tool income. Team had an income discloser in on of their books…way back when that touched on it and was asked to remove it from the First Night Info Pack. Quixtar doesn`t want anyone to know much of the profits upline makes is from tools…why? I would guess because they don`t want to drop prices or share more of the profit. The number one issue,is allways has been and allways will be in my opinion..the product prices and lack of a FAIR compensation plan. The sad thing is.Upline would not be making more on their tool incomes if the profits from the products were shared as generously as the profits for the tools are.And the pricing for the tools are very low,considering the valuable info on them. Hell…look at how the Team was growing(only because of those Godforsaken tools!!)…INSPITE of outragiously priced products!!! Name me some of those competitively priced products you mentioned. I have yet to find them. I bought the most reasonably priced products..but only enough to qualify for my bonus..the rest was at Wally World. Time to stop blaming the tool companies and take a little responsibility and make a buildable,reasonable and affordable business with a FAIR profit sharing plan.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Dreamweaver #76,
There is no prohibition against disclosing tool profit. I have the first edition of that book, and it reveals very little about tool profit. It mentions there is profit, but not how much, and how much is the key issue.
I’ve also talked with Quixtar about this issue, and they have said they don’t want tool profit hidden AND lifestyle shown that came from the tool profits. The upline does a very poor job at this in my experience.
The money most groups show in the plan is based on the product PV/BV, whereas TEAM slimed their way into creating more apparent profit via their tool scam without ever mentioning how much of the profit came from tools versus Quixtar.
Once the major problem, the tool scam, is fixed, we can turn our attention to the distant #2 problem, the pricing on some of the products.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:20 am
Tex #77
When it comes to tool profit being disclosed, I’ll bring up the letter Andy Andrews got from Quixtar saying they wanted only the top 2% in the organization to be privy to it. When it comes to your experience, you experience the world as you are, not as it is. When it comes to being upfront about tool profit, Team did that as much as Quixtar would let. Again I’ll bring up the tool profit diagram that Quixtar asked Team to remove from their site. And also the references on CD’s to tool profit. I’m sure if Quixtar actually wanted the profit shown Team would have in much more detail. And lastly, your plan of fixing the tool scam and then going after product pricing is basically what Team did.
Don’t be fooled tex. The reason tool profit is so important is because of Amway/Quixtar plan lacking money. The problem isn’t really the prices, its the Jay Factor (aka Greed). Go and listen to the Yager diamond meeting when they talked about this issue. Didn’t it boil down to there is not enough money in the plan? You feel you got ripped off and sadly that has effected the way you see this issue. Get over your past buddy.
February 7th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Tex #74
Nice spin. However, customer retention was always the issue, period.
Customers (a requirement for IBO compensation as stated in the IBO guide) DO NOT purchase tools!
On average after 60-90 days they stop buying products. Their compaint? “PRODUCT PRICING”!
AMWAY is in the business, hopefully, of selling PRODUCTS, correct?
You, Tex are in the business of taking IBOs attention away from THE problem. Consumer product PRICING!
February 7th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
re: Corporate Communications
Please feel free to respond to my post # 48. It seems that you have chosen not to do as of yet. I, and others, await your answer to the questions put before you.
If you need additonal info on the Florida lawsuits let me know.
Former IBO
February 7th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Eric #78,
I’ve seen the video where Andy mentions the letter. Now that it’s been several years and blogs are common, that is a very difficult issue to keep secret. I am careful to keep my experience descriptions factual, and check these facts against what others say, thereby getting much closer to the “as it is” condition. I never saw the tool diagram on the TEAM site, I’m not denying it was there or Quixtar asked them to remove it. But that doesn’t fix the tool scam. It doesn’t matter what TEAM did/tried to do, they don’t exist in the Quixtar universe any longer.
I’m not “fooled” (but I was lied to), I got in the A/Q business based on product profit, not tool profit. If I didn’t like the money I saw, I wouldn’t have joined. The “Jay Factor” is NORMAL markup. I’ve listened to the Yager diamond meeting when they talked about this issue. It didn’t boil down to there is not enough money in the plan, it boiled down to maintaining the tool profit lies. I know me and many others got ripped off and that has affected the way I see this issue. I’ll “get over it” when the tool scam is gone.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
IBO To Go #79,
No spin, just facts.
Customers (a requirement for IBO compensation as stated in the IBO guide) DO NOT purchase tools, and that’s why the upline emphasizes IBO’s, because that’s where the big bucks are.
You didn’t sell products that are competitively priced and/or you didn’t educate them on the unique benefits those products provide. Most groups don’t emphasize retail, so it’s no surprise you had these results.
According to Rich DeVos, it is both self consumption and retail model, just like the rules support.
I am in the business of placing IBOs attention towards the major problem. Tool PRICING!
February 7th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Former IBO #80,
See #56.
February 8th, 2008 at 12:59 am
tex 73
Tex, you said and I Quote “You weren’t “fighting” (I don’t like that term, but you and the Democrats use it constantly)”
This is what you post when you don’t remember all of the sewage that pours from your keyboard!!
February 9th, 2008 at 3:22 am
Tex,
Thanks for reply. I like how you say Team is now outside the Quixtar universe. As I see it, the people that have fixed or tried to fix the problems with the business (it’s piggy back business being more profitable than the primary business, you call this the ‘tool scam’, or the product prices) have run into serious resistence directly from Quixtar. Maybe this is a indication the Quixtar universe sucks? That it will always have serious issue’s because the source of these issue’s is Quixtar. Maybe getting out of the Quixtar universe is the answer tex? Do you believe that strongly in Alticor that you are willing to wait till they fix the tool problem?
And you say the J-factor (Whole sale price = 3 times manufacturing costs) is normal, for who? Direct sellers? MLMs? If it’s normal for companies not selling through a network, that’s different. Alticor must have different pricing considerations given that they have a much different business. If your manufacturing and selling products through a network expecting mostly retial sales with little self consumption, you have to think about market prices. If you ignore the market prices because the profit margin is fixed you could very quickly make it very difficult for your networks to retail your products. This is what happened with Quixtar. The fixed j-factor pushed whole sale above most retial prices, so if you put your own profit margin in to (what you are sopposed to do in business) it would be well above most other prices.
Instead of address the issue seriously, Quixtar added more and more bonuses, all based on volume (what else would it be based on right?) The fact the bonuses depend on volume encoourages self consumption, since Quixtar knows how little retial is happening. They track those numbers don’t they? The main issue here isn’t the margin, it’s the fixing of that margin.
February 9th, 2008 at 10:26 am
ben #84,
I said, “You weren’t “fighting” (I don’t like that term, but you and the Democrats use it constantly) for me.” It was referring to “fighting” for lower product pricing, while trying to defend their own tool scam.
What comes from my keyboard is factual. If others try to insult me with their pea-shooter comments, I unload the 16″ guns on them. It’s the only effective method I’ve found works in a forum that is open and others do not tell the initial poster to stop insulting. I don’t punch, but I do counterpunch, without mercy.
And you, my “friend”, are among the worst of the liars and can distort the facts with the worst of them.
February 9th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Eric #85,
I agree, I am one of those who have run into serious resistance from Quixtar. If TEAM is so great, why didn’t their “leaders” come clean with all of their IBO’s regarding the tool scam, and explain to them Quixtar wasn’t paying enough, so their only choice was to scam their downline via the tools? I think Quixtar is making a SERIOUS mistake by not clamping down on the tool scam, but the developments in India, the UK, and the extra bonuses in the U.S. will hopefully be followed up with getting rid of the tool scam. I have been told more changes are coming, I’m just not sure if those changes will fix the root cause problem of upline lying about the source of their income. At least TEAM isn’t ripping off their Quixtar IBO’s any longer.
I’m not here to “get out”, I’m here to fix the problem. You stay with your lying cowardly “kingpins” and go put together a new TEAM scam, I’m not interested. I don’t believe in Alticor, I believe in shutting down the overall tool scam. Nor am I “willing to wait till they fix the tool problem”, that’s why I’m here, in contact with them, the regulators, various attorneys, regulators, legislators, the media, etc., to bring the tool scam to an end. It’s Quixtar’s fault for not stopping the scam, it’s the uplines’ fault for the scam in the first place.
I’ve seen the TEAM marketing plan. They show how the manufacturer typically gets paid about 1/3 (or less) the cost for a widget, the rest is markup. There is NOTHING the “J-factor” does differently, except keep about 1/3 of that cost for bonus monies. Yes, some products are overpriced, but that doesn’t mean the “J-factor” is different than normal manufacturer/wholesale/retail markup. There has been some pressure put on this model with the rise of the discount stores, but this issue pales in comparison to the size of the tool scam problem. I also agree the retail prices are too high, especially for my area of the country.
Haven’t you noticed the price reductions in the UK? Don’t you think there will be similar price reductions in the U.S?
February 9th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
TEX #83
I have the information…I am waiting to see if the Corp. boys want to come clean and report it. Let’s give ‘em a little longer. I suspect they are working hard to get the pr spin right first.
I think when they don’t answer questions in a timly manner…it does not look good for them. It is if they have something to hide.
Former IBO
February 9th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
You missed my point. The fact the profit margin is fixed is the problem, not the size of the margin or how many other people use that margin.
I doubt similar price reductions will happen in the US without similar pressure applied. Besides the whole business is still in question over there.
You’re a lot like the dog laying on the nail. Hurt enough to whine but not enough to change his situation. Be proactive, go find a business without the things you don’t like.
February 10th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
tex 87
Don’t fool yourself or anyone else. The reason they didn’t “clamp down” on the tool system is because it helped people build business and kept the attrition rate down. Quixtar never contacted me or gave me any guidance at all about leading with products, they depended on tool systems to do it for them and because it was profiting so well they wanted a piece of the pie that they had no hand in creating. TEAM even came out with over night packs with CDs that had the Quixtar approval codes right on the front!! and those ones were done by TEAM leaders.. So don’t try to tell me that Quixtar had some kind of problem with the TEAM tool system or its very fair profit sharing program, they just wanted a cut..
February 11th, 2008 at 8:17 am
Tex #87 Says:
“Nor am I “willing to wait till they fix the tool problem”, that’s why I’m here, in contact with them, the regulators, various attorneys, regulators, legislators, the media, etc., to bring the tool scam to an end. It’s Quixtar’s fault for not stopping the scam, it’s the uplines’ fault for the scam in the first place.”
You obviously have a very inflated opinion of yourself. Amway cowboy to the rescue!
February 11th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Tex #82 Says:
“You didn’t sell products that are competitively priced and/or you didn’t educate them on the unique benefits those products provide.”
Most of my customers prefered the convience of purchasing their products themselves online rather than the strong arm tactics of a door-to-door salesman. How many “unique” benefits of toiletpaper can you educate them on?
“Most groups don’t emphasize retail, so it’s no surprise you had these results.”
If “most groups don’t emphasize retail” as you say than there must be a strong reason at the very core of the business. And it’s not tool prices, TEX. It’s high consumer product prices that’s the problem.
Tex your opinions sound like that of someone with absolutly no real Quixtar/Amway IBO experience whatsoever!
February 12th, 2008 at 2:51 am
Former IBO #88,
You shouldn’t expect a long list of lawsuit related cases to be answered immediately. I say get your information on the table as soon as possible, and see what A/Q’s response is.
Eric #89,
How do you KNOW it is fixed? The recent price reductions in the UK indicate otherwise.
February 12th, 2008 at 3:01 am
ben #90,
I think the main reason Amway didn’t “clamp down” after the Directly Speaking recordings were made is because the “kingpins” threatened to find some other business, and this would have severely damaged, if not destroyed, the Amway business. This happened in 1983, long before Quixar started, and prior to most of the international business volume.
If Quixtar didn’t have any problem with what TEAM was doing, why did they state in the termination letters Orrin and Co. had been breaking rules for 6 years (and not once protested by Orrin or Chris as being lies)? Getting a number on a CD doesn’t mean much when I personally witnessed (and complained to Quixtar) TEAM violations which later turned out to be listed in the termination letters.
You’re not fooling me or anyone else reading this post, ben.
February 12th, 2008 at 3:11 am
IBO To Go #91/2,
Why is taking appropriate action to shut down the tool scam having an inflated opinion of myself?
If you considered yourself a door to door salesman, no wonder you didn’t have customers. Strike one.
Are you saying the most unique product you could think of to sell was toilet paper? Looks like 2 strikes.
The reason for low retail is customers don’t buy tools. Why have customers the pay the upline pennies when you can have IBO’s who pay for tools and the upline makes dollars? Let’s say they lower some prices and don’t fix the tool scam. Most IBO’s STILL won’t go into a net profit situation. That’s why the major problem is the tool scam, not product pricing. Strike 3, you’re out!
Your opinions sound like that of someone with absolutly no real Quixtar/Amway IBO experience whatsoever!
February 12th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Tex,
From the suit in CA. . “The Jay Factor, the profit margin required by the founding families, is actually built into the pricing of the products at the manufacturing level”.
the fact the prices got lowered in the UK as a attempt to not get kicked out of the market does not suggest it isn’t fixed. The fact it took governmental pressure for them to adjust it indicates it is fixed, so does the word ‘required’ in the above quote.
The reason the tool/self-consumption business is so big is because the retail business is so small. Ideally people could join Quixtar, bypass any kind of training system on building a community, and just retial products. With some product information from Q, over time build a huge pv center, end up with apx a 25% discount on everything they buy plus the profit margin from the retailing. But no, the prices will not allow that, so the only viable way to make profit is to plug into a system and learn how to build a downline.
Quixtar lowering prices would allow people who not interested in the networking aspect of the business to join and make money.
Just wondering if anybody can name any emeralds or above (that have been recognized by the Amway/Quixtar in the last 20 years) that didn’t plug into a system themselves and encourage others to do the same?
February 12th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
tex 95
All AAQ would have had to do to shut down tool systems was lower prices and no one would have needed tools or their profit sharing plans to build a decent business period…
February 14th, 2008 at 8:03 am
Tex #95 re:#91
In your statement in #87 you present yourself as someone who has a positive influence over those at Amway, “the regulators, various attorneys, regulators, legislators, the media, etc.”
My point is that that position of influence has not been readily seen in these blogs.
February 15th, 2008 at 3:25 am
RESPONDING TO “WHILE WE WERE OUT”
February 15th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
IBO Rebellion: We’d initially posted your recent comment in its entirety but were soon made aware that your post already appears in full on your own blog. We do not repost entire posts from other blogs here. Please note that have have instead linked to your post above.
February 16th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Eric #96,
Do you believe everything at face value you read in a lawsuit? Those words are charges, not settled facts/judgments. The product price reduction in the UK means the “J-factor” theory is broke. I think the company has gotten lazy with product pricing as well, but it’s because they are getting input from the lying cowardly “kingpins” on the IBOAI Board who are cleaning up on tools and don’t care about product prices and/or don’t want to rock the boat.
You also don’t understand how the plan works. Unless you are single legged (which looks like is a widespread TEAM disease), you get FAR more than a 25% discount and your retail sales profits when you build an organization (with width).
How would Quixtar know if Emeralds were plugged into a tool scam or not?
February 16th, 2008 at 11:43 am
ben #97,
You don’t understand. Lowering prices would NOT get rid of the tool scam. The upline makes MUCH more when you buy a tool than when you buy a tube of toothpaste. Increasing retail volume would NOT have much effect on the uplines’ income. Tools make up the vast majority of the lying cowardly “kingpins’” profit, not the products.
IBO To Go #98,
I have a positive position, influence takes time. I’ve been up against corporate/government bureacracies before. You don’t mention a problem once and it is taken care of, you hammer away until it is fixed.
February 16th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Rebellion #99,
What part of the new QBI picked on TEAM and other depth building focused groups?
February 16th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
ANOTHER 45 DAYS!!!!!!!!!
Let my leaders go!
Remember? “Go TEAM, go?”
Let them!
February 18th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Tex,
Do I believe everything in the lawsuit? On it’s face, no, if it makes sense yes. The J factor is not a allegation, it is a statement of fact. Again dropping prices in the UK under governmental pressure does not break any theory. I think Alticor would rather drop their prices than be shut down. If they had dropped their prices in response to market changes, then I’d be questioning the rigidity of the profit margin. But it did take a government investigation for them to drop prices.
You say the IBOAI does not care about prices? Maybe not the surviving members, but you do recall what the CA suit was about and who the plantiffs were right?
In 101 you post “You also don’t understand how the plan works. Unless you are single legged (which looks like is a widespread TEAM disease), you get FAR more than a 25% discount and your retail sales profits when you build an organization (with width)”. First of all my example was if somebody got a IB number and did not want to build a downline. It’s really hard to build width or depth if all you ever do is retail products. Read my post next time before responding to it. Second, what compensation chart did they show you? The one I saw had 25% back on your BV at the top. And you know what? Better to be 1-legged and be getting more money back on the stuff you buy, then to be the 14th of 34 personals with 5 or 6 of your own, getting hardly any to no help from you’re upline. Team does not teach building 1 leg at a time. Team always taught, once you know how to build the business, build as many legs as you can. Of course you start with 1, but once you know what you’re doing you should start buiding more at a time. Orrin encouraged always having new growing legs. And if you think about it makes way more sense. All the organizations that have gotten big got that way becuse at some point somebody decided to have a depth focus.
I don’t expect Quixtar to know if Emeralds were on system or not. I didn’t ask Quixtar, I asked anyone who might read these posts. I’m just wondering.
Tex, you’re a smart guy and I appreciate the way you think, but you gotta actually read my posts before responding to them.
February 18th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Jerad #104,
I advocated the extension several months ago, glad it came true.
As I stated in another thread, I think he should wait 6 months AFTER a public apology and promise to not criticize A/Q ever again.
Just GO, TEAM. When we’re done with you….
February 18th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Tex 102
I don’t think you get what I mean.
It is my opinion that if the prices were right and new people found it easier to retail products they would not need to leverage a system to convince people to join them, the business itself would make perfectly good sense right off the bat and the tool system would not be needed. It all starts at the first circle, the new guy. Trust me I tried it without the tools for months with no results, because the prices didn’t make sense to the common joe. If I had gotten good results without tools, I would have never bought into them, and no body else would have either, which is why I believe the way I do on the subject.
Luckily for me though I did because I found the TEAMs tool system to be helpful in every aspect of my life, business, personal, work. etc..
And now TEAMs Leadership Development Training system has evolved into a system where anyone in any organization or corporation can benefit from it without being tied to or bound by any particular business or company. There is no mention of showing plans or overcoming objections to any business model, only how to improve your leadership ability’s in order to influence people in a positive direction, no matter what part of your life you wish to apply it to..
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:14 am
Eric #105,
The J factor is a statement of fact? What’s your source of this “fact”?
Regarding prices and the CA suit, are YOU aware Orrin made a tape in 2002 saying the prices are competitive, and made a similar statement in 2003 that can be found on the internet? Both of these have been forwarded to a Quixtar lawyer.
Let’s take your example with only self consumption and retail. Let’s further assume you charge IBO cost to your customers. You can make a lot of money in this manner. Let’s say you have sales of 7,500 PV and 20,000 BV from customers. You end up with about $5,000/month. I think it would be easier to create most of this volume from a group of IBO’s each having lower amounts of retail, but this is far more than a 25% discount. You still don’t seem to understand what the 25% BV is applied against. It is for your volume plus the volume in your group.
Why do you assume you can’t get hardly any help from your upline with multiple legs? I’ve been taught plenty of times to include multiple downline legs when helping others.
TEAM wasn’t the first to teach depth, but they did emphasize building one leg at a time more than other groups. I have no issue with this, as long as they don’t break rules as they do it.
Eric, you’re not a smart guy and I don’t appreciate the way you think, and you gotta actually read my posts before responding to them. Any misunderstandings I have from others who post can be easily and quickly cleaned up with a couple of questions and answers.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:20 am
ben #107,
I think you are underestimating how easy the business would be if prices were lower. I understand the prices were much more competitive when Dexter Yager was struggling with keeping his groups motivated, and the tools helped him be effective when he couldn’t physically be there. However, he and others turned the tools meant to help IBO’s into a scam, by turning tools into the main profit center, causing most IBO’s to lose money when participating in the scam, and lying about the source of their success.
February 25th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
tex 109
I think I understand where you are coming from on this one. But why do you think that Amway allowed this happen? Or do you think that Amway was just completely in the dark about it for the last couple of decades?
February 25th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
“Let’s take your example with only self consumption and retail. . . You still don’t seem to understand what the 25% BV is applied against. It is for your volume plus the volume in your group”.
Tex,
If you’re only self consuming and retailing, you have no group generating volume. The example I had was assuming the new IBO did not want to build a downline. My point is/was that with the way the prices are making enough money to make it worth simply by retailing and self consuming is not viable.
February 27th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
What in the world…why doesn’t Amway/Quixtar just move forward with THEIR business and be more concerned with THEIR ABO’S. NOW you are going to sue Monavie because people are now starting to fulfill thier 6 months and wanting to move on to a different company,(Monavie) so you think you will sue them…..GIVE ME A BREAK.
http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/
February 27th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
ben #110,
If you think Amway was completely in the dark for the last couple of decades, you haven’t listened to Rich DeVos’ 1983 “Directly Speaking” recordings, which can be easily found with a google search.
My former Diamond even stated he was given instructions to destroy any of these recordings they came across. His upline was some of the TEAM “kingpins”.
My belief is Rich and Jay were threatened with (and perhaps even suffered from) a product boycott. In those days, most of the volume was in the U.S. and Canada, and under a couple of “kingpins”, so they had to back off. That scenario is no longer true, and it is past time for the “soft walking” to stop and the “big stick” to make an appearance.
February 27th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Eric #111,
You “missed” (ignored would be more accurate) the first part of the paragraph, so I’m repeating it here: “Let’s take your example with only self consumption and retail. Let’s further assume you charge IBO cost to your customers. You can make a lot of money in this manner. Let’s say you have sales of 7,500 PV and 20,000 BV from customers. You end up with about $5,000/month.”
You don’t think this is viable? Are you aware other IBO’s have a primarily retail business? I’m sure you have heard your upline say something to the effect of, “If one man can, any man can!”
February 28th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Tex #108 Says:
“Let’s take your example with only self consumption and retail. Let’s further assume you charge IBO cost to your customers. You can make a lot of money in this manner. Let’s say you have sales of 7,500 PV and 20,000 BV from customers. You end up with about $5,000/month. I think it would be easier to create most of this volume from a group of IBO’s each having lower amounts of retail, but this is far more than a 25% discount. You still don’t seem to understand what the 25% BV is applied against. It is for your volume plus the volume in your group.”
Tex you’re mixing apples and oranges. Your first statement is true. With 20K BV from you and CUSTOMERS your 25% bonus would be $5,000 /mo.
However if you have a one leg downline “group” generating 20K BV, with NO personal customers of your own, and only 300BV of personal volume your bonus is $75 /mo. (25% of 300).
The first example is MUCH MORE difficult than the second. That’s why they pay you more.
Having “customers” and having a “group” (of IBOs) are two entirly different things. I refer you to the IBO rules guide.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Tex Says:
“February 16th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Eric #96,
Do you believe everything at face value you read in a lawsuit?”
Tex, do you believe everything you read in termination papers?
If I’m expected to be concerned about being lied to by “kingpins”, shouldn’t you be concerned about being lied to by a corporation?
I suspect that just like you believe that “kingpins” are in it for themselves, who do you think the corporation is in it for? I’d bet it’s shareholders, whoever they may be :).
February 29th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
sak #112,
You don’t have a clue. Quixtar isn’t suing MV, they are getting a judge to order them to release documents. Remember, there isn’t just a 6 month waiting period, there is also a 2 year period.
IBO To Go #115,
The discussion was whether there was money that could be made via retailing. I’m not advocating as much retail as the example showed, just that there is substantial money available via retailing. What does the “rules guide” have to do with this? Provide a reference to the rule you are referring to.
February 29th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Brad #116,
I don’t believe everything initially, but as the months go by with no protest from Orrin and Co. regarding the contents of the termination letters, I believe them more and more every day. Why shouldn’t I?
If you had evidence of being lied to by the company, I would be concerned. But you haven’t provided ANY evidence of this.
The company is in it for themselves, as they should be. If they start screwing the IBO’s, they will either go away or have to drastically change their business model. There is far more evidence the upline has been taking advantage of the IBO’s than A/Q has. There are no shareholders, it’s a private company.
March 1st, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Tex,
If the situation you describe (generating 20,000 BV through only customers) was attainable with a reasonable amount of effort, then yes the retial option would be viable. But it’s not. How many people have done this?
Have you done this?
I have to think if creating 7500 PV just with customers is viable then you would ignore the tool systems all together and just go make $60,000 a year retailing. Why don’t you do that Tex?
March 1st, 2008 at 6:55 pm
tex 113
so you believe that alticor knew everything that was going on and for some reason decided not to do anything about it because of a fear of product boycot right?
Ok I can go along with that, but TEAM did exactly the opposite. We found a product line with prices in line with the market, (xs) and (trim advandage) and rolled out a plan called D.O.T 1 S.T.E.P to prove that we could move competitively priced products faster with more retail customers and made XS the #1 selling energy drink in the america to prove that competitively priced products were the way to go and then what?
March 2nd, 2008 at 1:06 am
ok…so here is my situation. I have been approached by both Team and NON TEAM affiliated IBO’s (several months ago now) I told them both that i was contacted by someone in another group…I gotta say they were both very gracious about allowing me to do my “Due diligence” So i have been reading this blog and others for the better part of eight months….It seems to me that Alticor/amway or quixtar (whatever happens to be the real name, so i will call it “the company”) is the side where the hurt for IBO’s is coming. I mean seriously…Can’t you guys get over it? I thought that the company cared for people…reading these blog entries from the company are way off base.
They only thing i have ever read from any Team related blog is fact (actual court documents) and not some attorneys slander.
Better than that…rather than they reducing themselves to “he said she said” they promoted leadership…little things like integrity, honesty, doing the right thing, etc. i have seen NOTHING like that on any of the company’s posts.
So thank you very much Amway, Quixtar and or alticor. thank you for helping to make my decision for me. I have decided to go with TEAM and their leadership development program.
I always wondered why Amway had a bad name…i guess now i know after the last 8 months or so of reading this stuff…i hope you won’t have to file for bankruptcy.
March 3rd, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Brad Obert #116
Well said.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Eric #119,
The original statement is you couldn’t make money via retail. I didn’t say a large retail business is preferable, as it is a lot more work than building a network of others helping you, with all of you having what you want individually, whether it is a smaller or larger retail business.
I know some people have done this. The Big Apple is an example. I have not.
I don’t do this because I consider this a sales job, not a business ownership scenario. I am interested in a business ownership scenario, that’s why I don’t do this.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
ben #120,
And then what? Then Orrin/TEAM kept breaking rules, refused to fix themselves, and got terminated. That’s what.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
concerned new IBO #121,
If you went with TEAM, you need a new name.
IBO To Go #122,
#119 is much more the reality of the situation. But as they say, if the dream is big enough, the facts don’t count, right? Dream on.
March 4th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Tex #117
The Quixtar IBO Guide that each business owner receives explains the advantages and disadvantages between “depth” and “width and customer volume vs. downline volume income. Without including multiple team differential income, 25% is still 25%. The difference maker is obviously where the BV comes from and how it’s calculated. That will determine how much money you are actually paid.
Your previous statement that the 25% “is for your volume plus the volume in your group” IS FALSE.
If you do not have an IBO guide perhaps your friends at Q can supply you with one.
My point was that you DO NOT recieve 25% of your downline IBO’s, or their customer’s BV in the form of payment. Their PV adds to your’s to get you to the 25%. That 25% is multiplied by YOUR BV + any customer BV that YOU have.
As to your statement “that there is substantial money available via retailing”. I ask, specificly which products are you reffering to and what is your definition of the words “subtantial” and “available”.
Very few have ever achieved or sustained the $5000 per month of income from personal customers that you gave as an example.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:45 am
IBO To Go #126,
From Page A1, “Your sales volume, or your PV/BV as it is generally known, is generated by your own purchases, whether for personal use or resale, and by the purchases made by your registered customers.
To figure your gross Performance Bonus, you add the Pass-up Volume from your frontline IBOs (those you personally registered) – both PV and BV – to your personal PV and BV, then make your calculation according to the Performance Bonus Schedule. However, any Performance Bonuses earned by your frontline IBOs, using the same Schedule, must be subtracted from the gross amount to arrive at your net Performance Bonus.”
You have what I refer to as a GCE (Gross Conceptual Error). As you can plainly see above, there is NO distinction between volume produced (PV/BV) by your personal use of products, your sales to non-IBO’s, use by your downline IBO’s, or their customers. You couldn’t have been MORE wrong in saying I was wrong.
The primary reason most IBO’s haven’t produced much customer volume is because customers don’t buy the tools. Tools produce MUCH more profit to the upline. Since there is limited time available, the upline emphasizes the tools, and the aspect that suffers is retail effort. Yes, it’s really THAT simple.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Tex #117
You make it sound like the 2 year period is part of the no compete, but it isn’t. The 2 year rule is the SOLITIATION of another IBO. In case you don’t know what that means, simply stated for you……we cannot knowingly approach another Quixtar IBO and ask them to join our venture. Now, if they approach us that is not solicitation. How in the world would MV know if this was happening? And, by the way, NOBODY is doing MV yet, so why the lawsuit? I believe Q is trying to scare anybody wanting to affiliate with us. Just another cheap tactic that will fail and make Q look worse that they already do, if that is possible.I for one can’t wait to be a part of it, my 6 month will be up next week. To see what Q has turned into, go to Paul Harvey.com and listen to last saturdays news and comments, about half way thru he quotes DeVoss about how to start, and ruin a business, see it anything seems familiar.
March 5th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Tex,
If your interested in business ownership why are trying to build the Q/A business/LOS? The LOS is considered property of Quixtar.
March 9th, 2008 at 3:42 am
tex
What rules were broken? We promoted those competitively priced products to sell to “customers” and built great numbers, so what are you talking about dude?
March 10th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
ThunderDUNCE #128,
You make it sound like you can’t read, and you also can’t spell solicitation.
How in the world would MV know if this was happening? —- They probably don’t know, all Quixtar asked for was records, to see if the 6 month (plus at least 45 days) rule was broken, and by looking for a pattern that could be used to have a judge/arbitrator determine whether there was a preponderance (51%) of evidence to find Orrin and Co. broke the rules. Can you PROVE nobody is doing MV yet? I believe Q is trying to enforce their rules. Just another reasonable measure that will succeed and make Orrin/TEAM look worse than they already do, if that is possible. I for one can’t wait for you to be a part of it, your 6 month will be up next week, so go for it and JUST GO TEAM.
I think the Paul Harvey piece expired, what did he say?
Eric #129,
Just like the Golden Arches belong to McDonald’s business owners. You just don’t get it, do you?
ben #130,
Read the termination letters…dude.
March 11th, 2008 at 12:38 am
Tex,
Keep your head in the sand.
March 11th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Tex #131
Thanks for the slam on my spelling, nice to see to continue to attack personally, thing is I tend to type fast. Anyway, this is my very last post, and for that matter, the last time I will be on the alticor blog, tomorrow I am free and will wash my hands of the constant negative character bashing. So, we now have to prove something we HAVENT done yet? With all of the attacks Q continues doing do you really think we would do anything to put ourselves in jeopardy? Paul Harvey reported (based on DeVos) that a company destroys itself after it turns everyday operations over to the legal department because it doesn’t want to lose what is has built. When this happens, you lose focus on what got you there in the first place. Sales. It’s just like a football team building a lead and then in the fourth quarter they switch tactics and go into “prevent” mode. How many games were lost this way? The legal departments of business try to run things as “status quo”, don’t change, just hang onto what we have.
Now I understand why they implemented the no compete. Make it harder for someone to leave, and they will stay. Stupid strategy. Do you know what keeps an organization together? Make it so nobody WANTS to leave. What has Q done to make people want to stay? NOTHING. Instead, their bully tactics drove thousands away. All they want is their “kingpins” to stay rich and forget anybody else. That is why they hate the tool systems and will not allow the profit sharing to be public. Q keeps so much of the product money, while tools get shared by many, enabling more people to make money sooner, and Q thinks this makes them look bad. People like you think this makes the tools a scam, but your thinking is backwards. It’s not that tools are a scam, Q is. They refuse to fairly share in the profits, instead they hoard it all themselves. But, oh my gosh, don’t let the public find out, so Therefore, don’t allow tool profit sharing become public. Man, this last six months has really opened my eyes regarding what I like to call “legal crime”.
Q could have made so much more money if they simply allowed us to do what we were doing. It’s like the NFL not allowing players to endorse shoes, or drinks because they claim its not fair that the player gets paid millions for the product, while it doesn’t directly contribute to football. And football “created” the athlete in the first place.By the way, I love Q products. XS is awesome. But Greed is destructive. Good Bye Tex, I wish you the very best in your endevours. Despite the fact that we agree on, well, nothing, (except I think I read you’re a Colts fan and so am I) you certainly have passion, though misguided. God Bless you and good luck. Bye.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
I read about 30 posts here and got tired of Tex referring to rules, so if these questions have already been answered, my bad. I’m very curious though. I was in Quixtar for a few years and made probably $60 in my whole as an “owner”. But my loyalty was to my upline who is a friend of mine, not to some ridiculous company who sells overpriced products. What I’m understanding now is that if I want to go attempt to make money in another business where i’ll be called an “owner” (which is obviously an insult to the word “owner” considering how little ownership of your downline is respected when the actual owner flexes its muscles) I will be sued until I’m broke and homeless by a major company worth billions of dollars because they want to protect their business. It just doesn’t sound like the American Way to me. It sounds more like the tyrannical way. Maybe I could get a Van Andel or a Devoss to explain to me why I, or even Orrin Woodward, is such a threat if Amway/Quixtar is a decent business. And why are the Quixtar rules more important than just letting people compete in a free enterprise market as Mr. Yager is so famous for endorsing? I would assume if Quixtar was confident about their business they wouldn’t have a problem with a less viable or illegal business pulling their “highly successful” “ibo’s” away. I mean, who would ever leave a great opportunity to pursue one that was less lucrative or even illegal? It just looks like morality and respect have taken a backseat to profit and pride. I wonder if the oh-so-Christian owners have checked their Bible on their attitude toward Team and the associated humans.
March 15th, 2008 at 12:02 am
Eric #132,
You STILL don’t get it, do you? These rules are designed to protect IBO’s, why should they protect non-IBO’s?
ThunderDUNCE #133,
No problem on the spelling correction, whatever I can do to keep the standards high. You not only type fast, you don’t think straight.
No, Mona Vie has to show evidence of whether or not you have done something wrong.
I didn’t think Orrin was stupid enough to start the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit, especially since he says the prices are great in an online video and a TEAM cassette tape (which is with the Quixtar lawyers, by the way).
So Paul Harvey reported that A/Q had turned their business over to the lawyers? I don’t see A/Q as going into “prevent defense”, I see them as an all out assault, to teach a lesson to Orrin and discouraging other lying cowardly “kingpins” from considering going down the same road Orrin chose.
The no compete was initiated after the TIF fiasco. It makes sense.
Q has done PLENTY to make people want to stay. They have coddled the lying cowardly “kingpins” for too long. Check out what has happened in other countries, I can’t fathom them being able to not do the same here.
No doubt the tool scams have allowed A/Q to get lazy with pricing and PV/BV. But it’s too late to say Quixtar won’t allow the “profit sharing” (tool scam) to be known. These facts are all over the internet. Q gives out the product money to ALL IBO’s (assuming the 100 PV volume is met), while the tool scam gets shared by very few IBO’s AND making most of the IBO’s to lose money because of high tool costs. Do the math. Q doesn’t hoard the money, I got in when I saw the marketing plan (prior to TEAM coming along) and got in based on the payback I saw. Millions of others have joined after seeing similar numbers.
Making more money isn’t the issue, if you break rules and run a tool scam to make more money. Q could make more money if all IBO’s went off and robbed a bank and bought products and buried them in their backyard. I agree greed is destructive, it certainly destroyed Orrin & Co. Bub-bye.
March 15th, 2008 at 12:03 am
Mikey #134,
This is an identical post in another thread.
March 24th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Tex: Much obliged. We try to watch that as best we can.