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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
November 8th, 2007 @ 9:08 am ET…
Simply Quixtar
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
The key to an effective website (so says our trusty blog administrator) is a clean design that is easy to use.
Our colleagues at Quixtar would agree. We hope our North American customers will, as well.
And for you Web 2.0 nuts, Code Review is a great blog to weigh in on Quixtar’s redesign. More AJAX than L.O.C.—which, according to our blog admin, is supposed to be funny.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Artistry, Innovation, Nutrilite, Quixtar
November 8th, 2007 at 9:13 am
Who needs “Why we fight, part 2″?
November 8th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
New Web Site = Same old story.
One can register without a sponsoring IBO (one will be assigned). I wonder if the one assigned will always be platinum and up - my guess is yes. You can choose to not be communicated by this assigned sponsor. Isn’t this the big problem with stacking - where someone doesn’t know his sponsor?
The IBOAI represents you & works with Quixtar on issues. Oh yeah, How about their input on the name change? I think the IBOAI heard about it after the decision was made. Also, the $9 IBOAI annual fee is automatically included in registration. Then you have to send in a refund request form if you don’t want to support them. And ofcourse “secret arbitration”. Lets make sure that no one can tell other IBOs about the dropout rate, low retail sales numbers and other things that should be considered when entering this business. Instead we will just let the favored kingpins (Puryear, Yeager, Britt) keep on flashing rolexes, mansions and hummers. So what is new?
November 8th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
The new site seems to work OK. I am wondering what happened to the password protected site? I realize anyone going there will be assigned an IBO, which if they agree will be told who they are. You can get your whole basket full prior to having to give an ibo/key info or let Q/A choose.
If the prices, such as SA8 cost per use, are ok, this might work, especially with the millions of advertising Q/A is doing and is going to do. The concern is aren’t you “stacking” customers more than you were in the past? Is the IBO a close neighbor, or just the closest Platinum? Any more information?
I know people have been wondering since the Simply Nutrilite site was launched if Q/A is working to get rid of IBOs. I don’t think so, but it would be nice to hear it from Q/A for real. I am glad that Q/A decided the default was that the person going to the website would already know an IBO, have there IBO number and Key.
Does this mean the offensive Alticor block has been replaced with something positive? I can hope.
November 8th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Alticor block should be Alticor blog. The rest of the typos aren’t important.
November 8th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
I hope all you Quixtar supporters realize I was just able to order product without an IBO#! Nice, refer someone to the site and someone else gets the money! That will be great for everyones Amway business!
Tex,
More proof that Quixtar is all about eliminating the IBO!
November 8th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
The new site is beautiful. Very customer focused. And the new search engine is fantastic.
Two thumbs up!
November 8th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
john #2,
There’s a big difference between an IBO being stacked and a customer choosing not to have their IBO contact them.
I agree with your point about the IBOAI fee, it shouldn’t be an opt-out deal, it should be opt-in. The IBOAI has proven themselves to be inept, and even “banned” me from their blog for asking reasonable questions.
Utah #3,
I think only Platinums that qualify will be eligible for these “walk-in” customers, but there is nothing I know of that prevents them from “giving” these customers to their downline, if they choose.
November 8th, 2007 at 8:58 pm
If the retail rate in the business is 3.4% and lets say we triple that to 10.2% just to be crazy…do we think the
ability to obtain and retain retail customers goes up or down
when they can “bypass the middleman” and buy directly from the site?
I really feel bad for IBOs right now…they not only have to fight the name change to AMWAY, and the negative online…but now the few people that they do get, can cut them out of any profit by buying directly from the corp.
Wow…they have always called it the “greatest business opportunity in the world”..but for whom?
November 8th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
looks like AVON web site.
November 8th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
As one of the former IBOs, I really don’t understand the need of some former IBOs to knock every move A/Q makes. The new web-site looks fine. I hope those that remain with Q/A find the success they are looking for. Just because I have decided to leave, I don’t see why I should criticize those that don’t. Maybe Q/A will actually get serious about improving things for the ABO/IBO, including pricing. Maybe not. Frankly, at this point, I don’t care. And, I’m not sure why others do.
November 8th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Tex: Our apologies. We inadvertently deleted your reply back to Amway Realist, which read:
Amway Realist #5,
That isn’t proof, it has ALWAYS been that way.
Folks: The Code Review blog is a great place to ask technical questions related to the redesign, though you are welcome to ask questions here as well. And thank you all in advance for staying on topic.
November 8th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
Leonidas #8,
If the retail rate in the business is 3.4% and lets say we triple that to 10.2% just to be crazy…do we think the ability to obtain and retain retail customers goes up or down
when they can “bypass the middleman” and buy directly from the site? —- Again, this is NOTHING new, except customers called in on the telephone since the 60’s, instead of using the internet. Also, there is no “bypassing the middleman”, as the volume credit goes to a qualifying Platinum near the customer. Keep grasping for straws, though, because it reveals just how little you understand and/or how desperate you are.
I really feel bad for IBOs right now…they not only have to fight the name change to AMWAY, and the negative online…but now the few people that they do get, can cut them out of any profit by buying directly from the corp. —- See above, and please read the thread before you post your garbage.
Wow…they have always called it the “greatest business opportunity in the world”..but for whom? —- It used to be for the tool scamming “kingpins”, now it’s for the IBO’s.
November 8th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
OOPPSS!!! sue,me? #9,
I didn’t do a count, but I think we have just a few more products and services available. Quixtar also doesn’t sell around their IBO’s, unlike Avon, much to the frustration of a few ignorant bloggers.
Admin #11,
That’s too bad, it was a good one, as usual. But I think I can recall the flavor of the response:
Amway Realist #5,
I hope all you Quixtar supporters realize I was just able to order product without an IBO#! Nice, refer someone to the site and someone else gets the money! That will be great for everyones Amway business! —- Do you realize the volume goes to a local qualifying Platinum? Plus, if you don’t want to have a Platinum contact you, you get to pay full retail. It has been this way since the 60’s, except customers used the telephone instead of the internet to order the products.
More proof that Quixtar is all about eliminating the IBO! —- This is only more proof you don’t have a clue how this works.
November 8th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
#11 Alicor
The Code review is a great place to ask technical questions. I would agree, but there isn’t any of them here. The questions here have to do with your post and questions about the concept of an open website and the referral system.. That wasn’t some software error. That was intentional. Do we like it? I guess it doesn’t matter since we don’t have a voice anymore, or do we?
November 9th, 2007 at 12:10 am
Tex: Wasn’t that line getting old?
Utah: Do you really, really, really think you have no voice here?
November 9th, 2007 at 12:27 am
#14 Alticor,
Thanks for commenting.
For 16 years I have had faith in the IBOAI (or A equivalent). I have lost that trust. The name change, 8/9, and the new directions, the website changes. Oh, the website looks great. They fixed the default to be IBO referred, both websites. The free sample hasn’t been fixed yet, but that is for the other blog.
I like many of the products. I haven’t purchased any other brand for a number of items for 16 years.
But back to your post about the website. In 1999 it was clear that it was to be a password protected site. That is changed. Who decided that? Is Q/A willing to refer walk-ins to the closest IBO, or just the closest platinum to the location. With your new Q-University, it should go to the closest IBO. if the new walk-ins generate $100 million in volume, who gets that will matter. Who decides if it isn’t the IBOAI? I no longer have anyone in my LOS there.
November 9th, 2007 at 12:33 am
Amway Realist #5,
Your comment comes up on the blogs so often that I’m starting to wonder if there is an organized effort by a group of critics to try to scare innocent, uninformed IBOs.
Here’s my thoughts for any IBO worried about Amway Realist’s comment:
People have always been able to order products from www.quixtar.com without a referrer (IBO), as stated by Alticor Media Blog Administrator #11. When a customer orders something without a referral, she (or he) is assigned to a platinum IBO in her vicinity. (Quixtar doesn’t want to loose any sales.) That platinum gets the PV and the responsibility of servicing the customer. The only thing new is that the corporation has made the Quixtar and Simplynutrilite web sites more user-friendly for customers. Combine this with the extra advertising in main-stream media Quixtar is doing, and we may find more IBO-less buyers going to the web sites. So go platinum, if you’re not already! Talk to lots of people. Ask them if they’ve seen any of the ads. If you refer someone to a Quixtar or Quixtar-affiliated web site, make sure to give him your IBO number and your key (the first three letters of your last name), so if that person orders something, they don’t get assigned to another IBO.
Also, if you use the personalized web site feature available through www.quixtar.com, a prospect who becomes a customer by purchasing from your site is guaranteed to be assigned to you. To create your personal shopping site for customers go to “Manage My Business”, then click on “Personal Websites”.
November 9th, 2007 at 1:10 am
Anybody know how to boil a live frog? Put him in a pot full of lukewram water and then slowly start increasing the tempturature. The change at any one time is never enough to draw much attention, but soon the pot is boiling and so is the frog.
I’ve never done this and recommend no one ever does. But that’s how you would do it in theory.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:31 am
Wow, heard there is a new website….that’s great. Haven’t been there and I don’t plan on going to it. Website’s don’t get people in the business, leadership does. But I truly wish all of you well in your endeavours.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:06 am
Utah #14,
I view the “open website” as an opportunity to attract more customers, which equates to more volume and more potential for more IBO’s. How can that NOT be a good thing? I like it, and of course we have a voice here, or I wouldn’t be here. You should read up on the influence of blogs on corporations to convince yourself of this fact. Of course, the more facts and logic you use in your communications, the bigger your voice will be here.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:31 am
For 16 years I have had faith in the IBOAI (or A equivalent). I have lost that trust. —- That’s because the IBOAI overstated their actual authority.
The name change, 8/9, and the new directions, the website changes. —- All changes intended to get A/Q out of the 10+ year funk they have been in, in North America.
Oh, the website looks great. They fixed the default to be IBO referred, both websites. The free sample hasn’t been fixed yet, but that is for the other blog. —- I agree, the site does look great, have you checked out the section on “Interested in your own business?” What free sample are you speaking of, first time I’ve heard that?
I like many of the products. I haven’t purchased any other brand for a number of items for 16 years. —- Ditto, although not quite as long.
But back to your post about the website. In 1999 it was clear that it was to be a password protected site. That is changed. Who decided that? —- You could still order from the old site, it was just a little harder to do.
Is Q/A willing to refer walk-ins to the closest IBO, or just the closest platinum to the location. With your new Q-University, it should go to the closest IBO. —- Perhaps they are reconsidering this, but the Platinum can always “give” the new customers to their downline if they want to, so this isn’t a big deal to me, as Q wants to maximize the chance the walk-in will be treated well.
If the new walk-ins generate $100 million in volume, who gets that will matter. —- That’s a pretty big “If”. That’s why I’m not very concerned about referring walk-ins to a Platinum, I think the walk-in volume is much less than $100/year.
Who decides if it isn’t the IBOAI? I no longer have anyone in my LOS there. —- The IBOAI doesn’t “decide” anything, they give their input and advice to Quixtar. Many IBO’s don’t have anyone in their LOS there, but since the entire IBOAI is much more interested in preserving their tool scam income anyway, what difference does that make?
November 9th, 2007 at 9:37 am
ajgannon #17,
Your comment comes up on the blogs so often that I’m starting to wonder if there is an organized effort by a group of critics to try to scare innocent, uninformed IBOs. —- There’s an effort, but I don’t think it is organized. If it is organized, they are hiding it real well. I would be in favor of an informational section in this blog, and when incorrect and misleading statements like this are repeatedly posted, the Admin or one of us can simply refer them to the correct and accurate information in that section. It would save us a lot of time and be a useful resource for new readers, who may only see the false statement and not the response prior to making a decision.
Your other comments are right on target, and should be part of Quixtar University, if they’re not already.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:39 am
AEM: I triple frog dare you to decipher your analogy.
Tex: Not a bad idea at all. We have our share of FAQs ’round the web, but it would make sense to bring them together. Dare I go there, but: a wiki?
November 9th, 2007 at 11:35 am
There is no way A/Q can refer a new website customer to the nearest IBO; they don’t even know who the nearest “active” (I assume they wouldn’t refer to an inactive) IBO is. It will be a platinum or up. Remember, A/Q still can only share their “active” IBO numbers from 2001. This “website” hypr reminds of the pre 1999 Quixtar hype. I remember Ron Puryear and Greg Duncan saying Quixtar would be a $5 billion business within 5 years. Ouch! Question: I have been told for the last 7 years that Quixtar isn’t Amway. I was told it was a brand new business and business model that doesn’t have anything to do with Amway. Huh?
November 9th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Admin #23,
I already translated it, above. He was trying to make the point the recent changes are the first steps of bypassing the IBO’s.
I think a wiki-like idea would work if you acted as final approval, because wiki has a similar weakness in that anyone can say virtually anything, and even wiki has some parts that have to be approved by a moderator.
November 9th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
Alticor Media Blog Administrator #23
It’s so sweet to see a respectful post that’s overflowing with love.
Accounts for why there’s “too much tex” here.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
john #26,
I have heard on tape/CD $100 Billion within a few years.
Question: I have been told for the last 7 years that Quixtar isn’t Amway. I was told it was a brand new business and business model that doesn’t have anything to do with Amway. Huh? —- Told by who?
November 9th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
toomuchtex #28,
Then don’t post here.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Since you prefer to focus all your comments on the tool scam, certainly by now you have come up with the perfect solution. If so, we would love to hear it. If you do not have a solution for the problem by now, then you have wasted too much time complaining rather than finding a solution to fix it. Instead of being a part of the problem, why not be a part of the solution?
November 9th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
Alticor Media Blog Administrator,
Alright. How do you squeeze the north american IBO (or ABO) out of the picture without them being all that aware of it? Make small changes, little by little. Before the distributor is aware of it there is no need for them and their contracts are ended. There you go AMBA.
November 9th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
AEM: Please note that my role as admin is to manage the technical aspects of this blog, as well as to facilitate certain requests by comment posters to the rest of the Corporate Communications blog team. That said, thank you for your participation, and I suspect someone will engage your comment shortly.
Folks: Most of you are aware of other news items occurring today that are related to the company. Other posts on this blog, as well as the Amway Media Blog, deal with those items. We shall continue to keep the conversation on this particular post focused on the Quixtar.com redesign, including what you think of it. Much obliged.
November 9th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
Alticor Media Blog Administrator
I understand you’re not here to have dialogue. But didn’t you triple frog dare me? It was you I was responded to wasn’t it? If you wish to not be engaged then don’t engage.
November 9th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
I was responding to*
November 10th, 2007 at 2:01 am
AEM #30,
Just as I wrote in my response to you, that wasn’t posted.
Admin #31,
And you do a fine job. I like the new site, and all the talk from the critics regarding “boiling the frog” are pure garbage, in my humble opinion.
November 10th, 2007 at 2:03 am
Challenge for Tex #29,
I responded to your question, but it wasn’t posted. Ask it on another thread and I will respond again. If it still exists, perhaps a moderator can move my response to that thread as well.
November 10th, 2007 at 4:09 am
I don’t know why some feel they are going to miss out on some volume if someone just goes to the website and buys some product. For all you know those people could be in some other state or province for that matter. Besides there is nothing different now than before. People could buy direct with the old site, if fact people could buy direct before there was any site. I say who cares!!!!
Anyone who knows anything about selling, it is done by relationships. My wife and I utilize all four personal websites from the corporation. Just send them to your website and you get the volume. For heavens sake folks if you don’t know enough that when someone you know wants to go to the Quixtar address- you make sure you give them your IBO # and Key.
I think the new site is great and am slowly finding where every thing is but it will work out fine. Only thing I find both with my upline and my downline is that it is quite slower than the old site. Thought it was my computer at first but people I talk to say the same thing.
PS: You don’t see me on these blogs too much as I keep busy servicing and finding new customers.
November 10th, 2007 at 8:30 am
Canadian IBO #36,
Some people like to spread false rumors, somehow they get a kick out of doing that. If left unanswered, it can be damaging to A/Q.
I haven’t noticed the new site being slower, perhaps a lot more IBO’s are “exploring” it, to check out the differences with the old site.
November 10th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
Tex 12
If you feel its the best business opportunity in the world why haven’t you built it. I don’t understand. You seem to believe in the Amway opportunity and yet you won’t build the business. Seems to me the measure of a mans character is he does the things he believes in. Doesn’t just talk or blog about it.
November 11th, 2007 at 10:03 am
Tex #37
Not noticing the new website being slower is relative. If your slow, everything else appears quicker. Funny comment about “a lot more IBO’s are exploring it”, when IBO’s are leaving in droves.
November 11th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Micheal Dell said that the businesses that will dominant the online market are the ones who figure out community, not content. The website looks awesome, but it seems silly to work on the content aspect while hurting the community aspect.
November 12th, 2007 at 8:04 am
So tex your high and mighty opinion about the ruling from the Judge, Will you finally put to rest “the tool scam” ——– Team must be good for a lot of people. Maybe you should get some CD’s and read a few books. The “tool scam” helps you become a better person and have a better understanding of people in general. We all know you could use some help in that area of your life. So how about when we hit St. Louis I stop by your place pick you up take you there at my expense. You might just learn something, at least maybe you will be able to complain about something other than “the tool scam”. For me I could care less about the “products” of amway. Krogers has what I need for now, If products come to team then so be it, if they don’t then so be it. The information I am reading has helped in all the other areas of my life.
I will be waiting for your ever so nasty inults and reply’s, take care.
November 12th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
AEM: I was hoping you would clarify your earlier “frog” comment for the benefit of everybody participating on this thread. Clearly you had a point, though the point itself may not be clear to everyone here. As for your other comment in question, that is for CC or perhaps other posters to respond.
Tex, Brad Obert, etc.: Please repost off-topic comments onto posts where they are more relevant. Thank you.
November 12th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
tex #27
“Within three years of its launch, the vast majority of IBOs supported by Alticor in North America were with Quixtar, leading to the difficult decision to discontinue the Amway business brand in the U.S. and Canada. (Amway still thrives globally, with nearly $5 billion in sales last year.)”
Right from Q’s own web site.
Maybe u should get your info right before you spout off
Conan
November 12th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Canadian IBO #36 -
Perhaps it’s a concern of mass market advertising driving traffic to an ordering site not requiring any referral that creates business volume circumventing the IBO?
That would make Tex’s concerns pale in comparison - as it would be a fundamental breaking of trust.
Also be hard to NOT compare the biz opportunity with AVON et al then, huh?
November 12th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Canadian IBO #36 -
One final thought …
Think we’re actually talking about consumers buying, not IBOs selling.
Former does NOT require a relationship, obviously.
November 12th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
AEM #40,
We’re working on community, we just don’t want crooks in our community.
glenn #41,
You’ll have to ask your question on another thread, I will be happy to answer it there.
November 12th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
Alticor Media Blog Administrator,
Your right as for AEM’s comment, it is for us to respond.
AEM!!! YOU’RE RIGHT!!! COMMUNITY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT!! 100% RIGHT!!
but just wait, it will be kind of funny, someone here will say how they know soooo much more than someone worth 28.5 billion. (I think Tex will take this award)
November 12th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
Conan_78 #43
You are correct, also, under “quixtar facts” they list themselves as a sister company to amway. And, even though I can’t find it now, there used to be a “21 questions about Quixtar” and one question specifically asked if Amway and Quixtar were the same business and the answer was “no”.
November 12th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
G: Please address your comments to Tex on another post that would be more relevant to such a conversation. Thank you.
AEM: Likewise, please post off-topic comments on more fitting posts. Thank you, as well.
November 12th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
Conan_78 #43,
“Within three years of its launch, the vast majority of IBOs supported by Alticor in North America were with Quixtar, leading to the difficult decision to discontinue the Amway business brand in the U.S. and Canada. (Amway still thrives globally, with nearly $5 billion in sales last year.)”Right from Q’s own web site. —- Quixtar has the same Line of Sponsorship as Amway. Quixtar has the same buildings, phone numbers, people, warehouses, brands, and other support aspects as Amway. The “difficult decision” was whether to totally abandon ONLY the Amway brand name in North America. Read it above, AGAIN.
November 12th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
G #44,
Dream on.
G #45,
The former probably doesn’t happen very much, either. Especially since the customers would have to buy at full retail prices without an IBO being involved.
SPARTAN #47,
I agree community is important, I just don’t want to live in the same town as a bunch of lying cowardly “kingpins”, that’s all.
Thunderdunce #48,
Conan was dead wrong. I don’t recall a flat “none” to the question the relationship between Amway and Quixtar, I think you’re making that up, and are lying because you have no facts to support your TEAMtosterone induced position.
November 13th, 2007 at 1:08 am
Why no Alticor blog about the ruling in Michigan? Didn’t Quixtar’s motion to hold Chris and Orrin in contempt get denied? Did the judge site the “just go, team” blog as part of the reason 15,000+ IBO’s left Quixtar in september?
Admin, what comment was off topic? The one you didn’t post (or haven’t yet) or one of the ones you did post? Can you be anymore specific?
November 13th, 2007 at 3:35 am
I guess the quixtar.com “Gated Community” website promised on 1999 is now dead.
If Q/A was going to stay with the nearest Platinum picking up the new larger volume of walk-ins, then why this quote:
“The IBOAI Board and Quixtar leadership discussed a fair allocation system but it hasn’t been finalized yet, so we can’t release details.”
Are the walk-ins going to eventually be placed in a pool instead of attached to specific IBOs?
I wouldn’t believe something like that would happen, but Q/A has made too many errors the last 3 months.
November 13th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
re the Amway v Quixtar relationship, what John #24 said was -
I have been told for the last 7 years that Quixtar isn’t Amway. I was told it was a brand new business and business model that doesn’t have anything to do with Amway
The first part is (or was) true Quixtar isn’t Amway.
The second part however is a falsehood - to ever have claimed Quixtar has nothing to do with Amway is an outright lie. It’s IBOs saying things like that which give us all a bad reputation. Like any prospect who was told that lie wouldn’t work out the truth sooner or later?
I wouldn’t want to go into business with someone who outright lied to me, would you?
November 13th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
Why is Amway/Quixtar now selling Nutrulite to the the public without going through IBO’s. If you go to www.simplynutrulite.com you can buy direct and forget the IBO. Get rid of big pins here and overseas, sell direct to the public. Huh.
November 13th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
AEM #52,
There’s plenty of mention of the recent Michigan ruling on this and other blogs. If you want to talk about it on a separate thread, get your own blog. Not that anyone will look at it, though.
Utah #53,
I guess the quixtar.com “Gated Community” website promised on 1999 is now dead. —- It’s still a gated community, but it is set up so you don’t have to have a person opening and shutting the gate, but the “toll” still goes to the IBO’s.
If Q/A was going to stay with the nearest Platinum picking up the new larger volume of walk-ins, then why this quote: “The IBOAI Board and Quixtar leadership discussed a fair allocation system but it hasn’t been finalized yet, so we can’t release details.” —- I think that refers to the IBOAI contract with Quixtar, not walk-in customer volume. Provide a source for your statement and we’ll see.
Are the walk-ins going to eventually be placed in a pool instead of attached to specific IBOs? —- I doubt it, but that doesn’t mean you’re not all wet.
November 13th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
ibofb #54,
I wouldn’t want to go into business with someone who outright lied to me, would you? —- No, that’s why I broke away from the tool scam.
Eric #55,
Where have you been, we’ve already proven what you said is WRONG.
November 13th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
#55 Eric,
If you buy direct (not a free sample) you have to say whether or not you are being referred by an ibo, and if not, it implies one will be assigned. The difference between that, and also the new Quixtar.com, in my opinion, is that they have been doing that for some time - but the new sites are fully open, (no gated community).
November 13th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
Eric #55 - a more interesting question would be, Eric - “Why are you spamming this post on so many websites?”
You’ve been able to buy “direct” off Quixtar since before it was Quixtar. All volume goes is allocated to a local IBO, as usual. But if you’d read any of the multitude of responses to other time folk (Team?) have posted this urban myth, then you’d already know that.
November 13th, 2007 at 8:08 pm
Tex #51 -
Thanks for stating YOU YOURSELF believe the majority of customers would not purchase at the inflated retail price. That’s what your reply comment #51 states … in no uncertain verbage.
Of course, no one WE know has made any issue of fact retailing above IBO cost is all but impossible … nice to see there is agreement.
Apparently there ARE other issues at play beyond tools, eh? … Our GB friends now have reduced product pricing, we have streamlined retailing designed for IBO bypass when it suits the Corp.
That’ll be yet another reason to stay abreast of ROC changes, eh?
November 13th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
IBOFB #54 -
What’s laughable about your example is fact that you’ve apparently bought in to the notion that advertising their 50 year old pig as a ballerina with weight problems will “play” here in the States.
Of course, if it looks like a pig, oinks like a pig, smells like a pig … it’s a pig!
No amount of marketing is goint to “fix” that. But it sure will help folks recall favorite stories of pushy door to door soap salesfolks …
November 13th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
Utah #53 -
I’ll bet there was a fair allocation “discussed” - but as we know, what the IBOAI “discusses” has nothing to do with what’s decided any longer …
(here’s an allocation idea - we (Corp) spent the ad $$$ so we get those client sales $$$ - any questions?)
At best, today IBOAI have an “early warning system” (sometimes not nearly early enough) advising of latest storms initiated by bone-head policies so orderly evacuations of the innocent can be commenced.
November 13th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
AEM - Don’t you remember? We’re supposed to talk about lying cowardly kingpins (a la Tex’s tool scam spam) in this and every other Alticor thread … but instead of playing along, you and I were being highly uncooperative by actually talking about the TOPIC so Admin got confused … (now if insomnia develops, Admin could always count Tex’s spam posts (like that’s gonna happen anytime soon)
November 13th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
so tex,
Does that mean that maybe just maybe I might have found your soft spot? I noticed that you did not insult me or call me names this time, I appreciate that. I have no idea what other thread you are talking about, if you know one then please tell me, or I could be real gutsy and just post my e mail on here, they can’t fire me or eat me you know, they don’t own me or any of my friends.
Just so they might post this I really am looking forward to the instructional lessons this weekend in columbus, to bad they didn’t have this kind of leadership while I was a q/a ibo, they could have used the life lessons that their parents once believed in.
November 14th, 2007 at 12:14 am
Take a look at the following related blog:
November 14th, 2007 at 2:05 am
Eric #55,
The answer to your question is found on the following posts on this thread: #17 ajgannon, #36 Canadian IBO.
November 14th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
#60
The link isn’t working. The website is being changed, but the information is still there at the O zone.
They haven’t posted my suggestion yet, but that blog is directly related to the more “open” site.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
It’s rather entertaining to read all the “opinion” posts regarding allocation of “stumble in” IBOs to Corp web sites.
There’s a quick reply always coming from the field folks saying (in effect) “it’s always been assigned to a Platinum … blah … blah … blah …
What seems to get missed is:
1) Running ad campaigns to increase brand awareness and drive traffic to web sites is hardly “stumble in” … it’s how traditional mainline web sites have been doing things since web commerce launched.
2) The language I’m seeing indicates conversations with IBOAI are occurring regarding how to address volume not referred by IBOs.
Correct if wrong, but conversations don’t occur when things are not changing … or if change is not being contemplated.
AEM: The “frog” in your analogy would not be expected to notice the climate change either, would he … unless of course they adopt Reagan’s policy … “trust, but verify”.
(The fact that some get indignant when someone is looking for verification is a great indication one is prudent to verify)
November 15th, 2007 at 12:42 am
Hey Q,
Ya know what would be fun?
Check this out! Please start a thread where we, the bloggers, can post and compare Q prices with normal human prices.
C’mon, I dare ya!
November 15th, 2007 at 1:58 am
G #59,
I have said many times I find the retail prices to be non-competitive, but many of the IBO prices are competitively priced.
Also, I have NEVER said product pricing isn’t an issue, ONLY that it isn’t the biggest problem, the tool scam is.
G #60,
Most people who recall the door to door days are either dead or close enough that they won’t be prime prospects for an internet based business.
November 15th, 2007 at 9:54 am
Tex, #51
Direct from Amways “22 questions” site
“Question 19:
Aren’t Amway and Quixtar really the same?
No, Quixtar and Amway are sister companies and subsidiaries of their parent company, Alticor Inc., a global enterprise doing business in manufacturing, marketing, logistics, and product and business development.
Quixtar was started in 1999 and offers entrepreneurs in North America a unique business model over the Internet. Amway was started in 1959 and continues today in 80 countries and territories outside of North America, using its traditional sales, marketing, and distribution model. Both use a similar Independent Business Ownership Plan, but operations are very different. Because they are so different, Quixtar has its own name and brand identity.
November 15th, 2007 at 9:55 am
Thunderstruck #48
That site you referenced is here
http://www.ibofacts.com/quixtar-questions-22quixtarquestions.htm#top
November 15th, 2007 at 10:01 am
My bad, guys…
In re-reading the header to that site (#62), it appears that it’s one from the IBOAI ..not specifically Q/A…but I think it’s still a safe bet that the info is accurate.
Well, as accurate as anything else you can believe from the IBOAI.
November 15th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
Jerad: I believe some other blogs already address this. You may want to try Quixtar’s Opportunity Zone, as well.
Folks: There seems to be a lot of discussion on this post with respect to the IBOAI. You are encouraged to join the conversations on their blog, which comes straight from the source. Otherwise, we should really try to stay on topic here. Talk pertaining to BSMs, Amway’s corporate history, etc. is perfectly fine but would be better discussed on other posts throughout this blog. Muchos gracias, danke schon, and thank you.
Back to Quixtar.com’s relaunch. Anything else to add?
November 15th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
AMBA - A lot of bandwidth and consternation regarding posts here for relaunch of a web site of the brand you plan to place on the scrap heap, isn’t it? (heck that opportunity doesn’t even qualify for it’s own blog on the Alticor site - talk about the ugly cousin …)
Tex # 70 -
I’d be in agreement with the sentiment stated in 2nd half … except the brand in question has a persona beyond any mere individuals … and not too positive beyond our “most assuredly unbiased” cross section of IBOs (unfortunately).
It’s nearly as well known as Kleenex and Xerox, however to the average person it’s a bit more akin to Edsel (a FINE auto, just no one wanted one) and has anecdotes attached akin to “did you hear the one about the traveling salesman that shows up on the farmer’s door and asks for a place to sleep … in this case, the story lives on beyond age of the originators.
Let’s face it, the brand name has a life of it’s own, and we’d be more than just a bit naive to think mere marketing $$$ are going to change that. The more the brand becomes top of mind, the greater the number of ancedotal (not too positive) stories will promulgate.
Remember “not your father’s Oldsmobile?” After spending significant $$$$ to make that relevant, it’s now not ANYONE’S OLDSMOBILE!!!
It sure would be fun to administer the marketing budget (on commission)however - cause it’s gonna be a whopper if they “keep the pedal down” looking for improved brand acceptance (a whole lot different than AWARENESS).
There IS a reason Toyota chose to rebrand as Lexus … and while Toyota has made great strides, I still don’t see them anxious to dump the Lexus moniker.
November 15th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
G #62,
I’ll bet there was a fair allocation “discussed” - but as we know, what the IBOAI “discusses” has nothing to do with what’s decided any longer … —- And hasn’t been for a very long time, because the IBOAI has lied about their true lack of authority.
At best, today IBOAI have an “early warning system” (sometimes not nearly early enough) advising of latest storms initiated by bone-head policies so orderly evacuations of the innocent can be commenced. —- You need to check whether the “early warning system” is plugged into the wall. The IBOAI and upline dropped the ball on educating IBO’s regarding the rule changes and the name change.
November 15th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
G #63,
Why count my post? Just take the total and divide by 2, you’ll be close enough.
glenn #64,
I have a lot of soft spots. But I also walk softly and carry a big stick.
You need to refer to the original post, I am not going to go back and search for what you were referring to.
Utah #65,
Point?
G #68,
1) Running ad campaigns to increase brand awareness and drive traffic to web sites is hardly “stumble in” … it’s how traditional mainline web sites have been doing things since web commerce launched. —- My personal opinion the advertising won’t create much walk-in traffic, but will be used mainly as a tool to raise brand awareness when approached by an IBO, and when the IBO brings a magazine with them to show the prospect the advertising support.
2) The language I’m seeing indicates conversations with IBOAI are occurring regarding how to address volume not referred by IBOs. —- People talk all the time, what’s your point? Do you read tea leaves as well?
Jerad #69,
You would probably do a lousy job of comparing similar quality/performance/cost per use.
dannie #71,
And now that the internet has spread through most of the rest of the world, it makes sense to have one brand name? Do you have a point?
dannie #73,
My bad, guys…In re-reading the header to that site (#62), it appears that it’s one from the IBOAI ..not specifically Q/A…but I think it’s still a safe bet that the info is accurate. Well, as accurate as anything else you can believe from the IBOAI. —- Which means very little should be believed, as IBOAI is composed of the biggest lying cowardly “kingpins”.
November 16th, 2007 at 1:23 am
About the site, why spend time and money on that (which really doesn’t change much for profits0) while they have a huge problem with public relations? Alticor has inspired another group of people to tell their friends “never join Amway, here’s why. . . ” Then launch into the story with Team, the CA lawsuit, and whatever else. How will this help you in developing the most important asset in your business, community?
On a importance scale of 1 to 10, ten being the most important, changing the website is like a 2 or 3 maybe. Building good will with your IBO’s and customers is like 10. This is like the captian of the titanic being more concerned with his seat cover than the field of icebergs ahead.
If you feel different, I totally and completely repsect that. I’m not trying to change your mind. I know not everyone feels the way I do.
November 16th, 2007 at 10:30 am
Dannie #72
Thanks, I knew it was out there still, just so much info sometimes it’s hard to find. The reference aboout Quixtar and Amway being the same is question #19.
Tex #27 - does this answer your question to John?
November 16th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
AEM #77,
This was being worked on for several months by a different group of people within A/Q. Just because you think Orrin and Co. is important enough to put the brakes on everything to try to please you, obviously not everyone agrees with you.
Thunderdunce #78,
I already addressed this in #50. Do you know the difference between marketing and operations?
November 16th, 2007 at 3:01 pm
Moderator,
Does this have anything to do with the Quixtar.com site, or something else?
IBM Virtualization Powers Oracle Rollout at Amway Corporation
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/834830/
November 17th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
AEM #75 -
You’re right on target with your observations … and there IS a very logical explanation.
Corp can hire folks to build web sites, and they can hire folks to litigate the pants off whomever they choose. Those are skill sets they have in abundance, and so they use them.
What they lack, and have little (if any) appreciation for are the skill sets of successful community building. If they understood and respected that undertaking, you would not see near the effort to write “internal legislation” inuring benefits of those skill sets being applied on their behalf. They wouldn’t have to.
November 18th, 2007 at 3:04 am
#74 Alticor Media Blog Administrator said, “There seems to be a lot of discussion on this post with respect to the IBOAI. You are encouraged to join the conversations on their blog, which comes straight from the source.”
What conversations? I asked weeks ago where the $9/per IBO goes. First, my respectful question wasn’t posted (or answered). Then there was some stalling tactics in an email sent to me. Then tap dancing when I followed up. Now, complete silence.
That blog’s moderator is a “crisis management” PR guy. Not a very good one, I might add.
November 21st, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Tex: More guts than glory. But good question. Code Review would know.
Bridgett: Sorry to hear you’re not getting the response you need. Can’t speak on their behalf, but try reposting your comment over there, perhaps emailing it to them as well.
November 21st, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Bridgett #83,
Sorry for the typo for your name on the OZone blog. I didn’t think I did that.
Re: The IBOAI moderator JM that is a crisis management guy. He was being the best of all the responders, with real answers. I know there are at least two people over there. Lately, either he is wearing out, or it the other guy, or he was doing to good of a job, and told to back off. I have been disappointed. I am not sure where the $9 goes. I recently found out, according to the IBOAI blog that NZ and Australia are supposed to have something similar but the rest is just some council.
November 21st, 2007 at 4:31 pm
G #82,
Not even remotely pointed towards the target, let alone right on target. The action against TEAM has been a breath of fresh air, but is only the beginning for what needs to occur.
Your TEAM “heroes” are nothing more than lying cowards, their “communities” are a farse.
Bridgett #83,
You would have been better off getting “banned” from the IBOAI forum as I was, would have saved you a lot of time. But thanks for verifying my issues with the IBOAI and their total lack of tranparency.
Admin #84,
Thanks, I’ll ask the question over there. Welcome back, by the way. And Happy Thanksgiving Eve.
November 21st, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Tex #80
With awareness comes intelligence. And sir, you lack both. After listening to your podcast and hearing you admit that your team consists of less than 10 people, then adding in your comments on how you’ve listened to thousands of cd’s and read many books, I’ve come to the conclusion that a business like this is way out of your realm. Heck, I brought on 8 new customers just this week! You must have some deep issues that only you can deal with, you come across in these posts as some type of “expert”, when in reality your just a punk.
But, I do think you are a perfect fit for this business because your vision is right up there with both Devoss and VanAndel, and that vision is more like fantasyland. The writing is on the wall, Amway is dead in England, they are slowly doing away with IBO’s in North America. Down $ 125 million dollars in one quarter, you would think Quixtar is in the car sales. Then you come along, all high and mighty and think you can save the ship from sinking by drilling another hole in the bottom to let the water out. Isn’t it clear that a system is the key, and not a system that only a few so called “kingpins” get all the profits, but a system that is shared on equal terms with everyone involved, an opportunity for any to do better than the next no matter when you got in. You mind is so misconstrued, that you believe keeping people out of a system is the way to success, wrong. You think a great website is the key to success, wrong again. You think that making a profit should have limitations, wrong again. You think the “top guys” are raking in all this dough from the downline, wrong again. You think that the answer lies in having simple meetings everyother month at your house is the key, wrong again. (Are you seeing the pattern here)?
Well, the truth of your maligned thinking showed bold and bright in that podcast, you Tex, are nothing but a fraud. A “Herb Tarlick” character at best. And when everyone else on this site and others here that same podcast you will be fully exposed.
Meanwhile, I will take the system that I’m a part of, and utilize it to the best of my ability to help others change how they perceive success, and help them achieve their goals and dreams. And if I help enough people, I will get there also. Enjoy you huge team Tex ol boy, cause it sounds as if they are all the friends you have. And when you grow your team to over 500, I’ll reconsider your opinions. Till then……buh bye.
November 21st, 2007 at 8:04 pm
News reports about Alticor’s new venture Fanista report that -
“A spokeswoman for Quixtar said the company’s distributors have been notified about Fanista”
Really? Any Quixtar IBOs (I’m Amway internationally) care to tell us what they’ve been told about Fanista?
November 21st, 2007 at 9:41 pm
#84 Admin
Sorry for the confusion. My comment wasn’t directed toward you. Just quoted you in my #83 comment to point on the uselessness of the IBOAI Blog.
November 24th, 2007 at 2:49 am
Tex [#51] and G [#60]
Retailing is not hard if one has been trained properly in order to know how to sell. And I’m not talking about twisting people’s arms or going door-to-door. Our competitors in the direct sales and MLM industry are beating the pants off of us by selling product. If you sell product, and not try to hide it, people that need to make extra income will see the income potential, see it as a business they can make money in, and want to get in the business.
The best way to sponsor a more stable organization is to quit trying to sponsor as much. People aren’t dumb. If I go to work as a clerk in any kind of store, I have to sell, which is nothing more than explaining.
This year, through mid-November, I’ve sold $36,800 worth of product to customers at retail, with $28,700 of that coming from REORDERS — meaning that customers called to reorder the product.
Customers (mostly former IBOs) bought $5,100 of products IBO price, all reorders.
These are almost all Quixtar branded products, and NOT from the Options catalog. I couldn’t and wouldn’t try to sell items like our paper products.
The average retail order generated 36.88 PV per order, and a total of $8,300 in Gross Profit. And as a Platinum, the $30,400 BV from the retail priced orders also generated $7,600 Performance Bonus. (Did you notice that even though I earn 25% Perf. Bonus on the BV, it is still less than the Gross Profit? Think about how that works for someone at a lower bracket.)
All customer orders (retail and IBO cost, first time and reorders) generated a grand total of 13,500 PV and a combined Gross Profit and Performance Bonus of $17,700.
The new redesign of the Quixtar site is very attractive, but it endangers an IBO’s customer business. Amway and Quixtar IBOs have a bad reputation of always trying to recruit rather than sell product. The redesign reinforces that deserved reputation. The site immediately try to recruit with the video, then encourages them register as an IBO on the log-in page. Finally, when a customer gets in the site, he or she is presented with a section informing him how to start a business and save money on products he or she uses. There are links at the bottom of every page that leads the customer to the Opportunity Zone, here, thisbiznow, and other recruiting web pages.
We need a site that separates recruiting from selling producs to customers or potential customers. And since catalogs and web sites go hand-in-hand, and our only catalog, Choices, refers people to the quixtar.com web site, that site has to be made “customer safe.” Quixtar can set up another URL for recruiting purposes and duplicate what the current “front door” looks like.
Do you really want your new IBO to get a customer and then have that customer enticed to be an IBO and give away your IBO’s retail profit? How motivating is that?
November 26th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
ThunderDUNCE #87,
With awareness comes intelligence. And sir, you lack both. After listening to my podcast and hearing me admit that my team consisted of less than 10 people over a year ago, then adding in my comments on how I’ve listened to thousands of cd’s and read many books, I’ve come to the conclusion that a business like this is way out of your realm. You made my point. Many IBO’s can’t afford the system, and many more who try go broke making the attempt. Only a few “survivors” make it, and are held up as evidence of a great system, and the financial carnage of many more “failures” is ignored.
Heck, you brought on 8 new customers just this week? Congratulations, I brought on 50,000 last week. At least they aren’t being ripped off via the tool scam.
But, I do think you are a perfect misfit for this business because your vision is right up there with the “kingpins”, and that vision is more like fantasyland. The writing is on the wall, the tool scam is dead in England, they are slowly doing away with the tool scam in North America.
Down $125 million dollars in one quarter, you would think Quixtar finally willing to pay a short term price for long term survival. Then I come along? I came along long before the recent events.
I’m not “high and mighty”, I am revealing the true business model. I have not issue with the system, I have an issue with the outrageous profits it creates and remain hidden. If you share the profits with all, it becomes an illegal pyramid, so the key isn’t to share “on equal terms with everyone involved”, it is to reduce the prices and reduce the tool profits.
Your mind is so misconstrued, that you believe keeping people in a system scam is the way to success, wrong.
I never said I “think a great website is the key to success”, wrong again.
I never said “that making a profit should have limitations”, but I did say honest business dealings with your fellow “teammates” and “business partners” is essential.
I know the “top guys” are raking in all this dough from the downline. Haven’t you read the judge’s ruling regarding the $1-10 million/year the TEAM “kingpins” used to make via the tool scam?
I never said “the answer lies in having simple meetings every other month at my house is the key, but if nobody else is going to hold meetings that don’t result in MA$$SIVE profit, I am willing to hold them (are you seeing the pattern here)?
Well, the truth of my brilliant thinking showed bold and bright in that podcast, I Tex, am simply exposing a fraud.
A “Paul Revere” character at worst.
And when everyone else on this site and others hear that same podcast the tool scam will be fully exposed.
Meanwhile, I will not take the tool scam system that I’m a part of, but alter it and then utilize it to the best of my ability to help others change how they perceive success, and help them achieve their goals and dreams. And if I help enough people, I will get there also. Enjoy scamming your huge team Dunce ol boy, cause it sounds as if they are all the friends you have. And the size of our teams has nothing to do with the facts. Till then……bub-bye.
November 26th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
ibofb #88,
They probably told the IBOAI Board and upline Diamonds. These folks turned around and notified their IBO’s just like the name change. In other words, pure silence.
The Big Apple #90,
I agree retailing is not difficult, but it would take a lot of effort to build and maintain the level of retail you have. Also, the upline discourages retailing. I think IBO’s should have the choice whether they want a large or small retail business, as well as whether they want a large or small network. I think you have a good point regarding the new Quixar site, it does encourage customers to become IBO’s, especially if they are paying retail prices.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:31 am
The Big Apple #90
Your last paragraph sums it up, all you have is another job.
November 27th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Tex 86
“The action against TEAM has been a breath of fresh air, but is only the beginning for what needs to occur”.
If what you are talking about is the distributor sales force being moved out of the picture, you’re right.
What some people don’t seem to get is that no network you build for any company is stable as long as the company can change the deal on you. Many of us were led to believe that the IBOAI had sway. That Quixtar couldn’t change the deal without approval from the IBOAI. In actuality that is not the case. That alone is reason enough for the whole thing to be suspect. More so, they proved they have no problem changing the deal not in the favor of the IBO. What if in 2009 they don’t offer renewals to anyone and start selling directly to the public?
November 27th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
fanista.com
So Quixtar told the IBO’s about it. When?
If IBOs want to join the Alticor funded competing MLM, are they in trouble?
It is time this be commented on. After all, the press is having a field day with this.
Please explain why for 2 years we haven’t been told?
November 28th, 2007 at 1:42 am
I was on Fanista and I don’t think too much of it.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
IBOFB,
About Fanista, I was told nothing at all. Anybody else?
November 28th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Thunderdunce #93,
I agree with you on this one on a personal level, but each individual IBO should be able to make the decision whether they want to have primarily a retail or network business.
AEM #94,
If what you are talking about is the distributor sales force being moved out of the picture, you’re right. —- I think you know what I’m talking about, which is the disassembly of the lying cowardly “kingpin” tool scams.
What some people don’t seem to get is that no network you build for any company is stable as long as the company can change the deal on you. —- You don’t get is the company depends on IBO’s, so if they change the deal too much in a negative manner, they won’t exist any longer.
Many of us were led to believe that the IBOAI had sway. That Quixtar couldn’t change the deal without approval from the IBOAI. In actuality that is not the case. That alone is reason enough for the whole thing to be suspect. —- You’re right, I thought the IBOAI had more of a say as well, now I’m glad they don’t, because their main interest is the promotion of their tool scams.
More so, they proved they have no problem changing the deal not in the favor of the IBO. —- What proof do you have of this? The free shipping for customers? The 3 months free shipping for IBO’s? The $60 million in additional bonuses? The 20 increase in customer PV? The increased advertising? The new competitively priced products?
What if in 2009 they don’t offer renewals to anyone and start selling directly to the public? —- What if the entire planet gets wiped out by an asteroid? About the same chances, I’ll let you do the worrying about the sky falling down.
November 28th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Utah #95,
So Quixtar told the IBO’s about it. When? —- I agree, this is a great question for the moderator to answer.
If IBOs want to join the Alticor funded competing MLM, are they in trouble? —- It’s not an MLM, but I think this is another good question for the moderator to answer, or get an answer from someone in the rules department and post the answer.
It is time this be commented on. After all, the press is having a field day with this. —- The “press” doesn’t really care, they will be on a new story tomorrow. Grow up.
Please explain why for 2 years we haven’t been told? —- Because most businesses don’t announce projects in advance, it would damage their competitive advantage. Grow up.
November 28th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Jeffrey #96,
I haven’t been on the site, and don’t think about it much, either.
AEM #97,
I was told, perhaps they only tell the winners, or only the highly paid bloggers.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Are there fewer people blogging or did Alticor start laying off people. No value added for a blog master. They are the first to go!
Conan
November 28th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
IBOFB,
No, I haven’t heard anything from Q/A re: fanista.com
I checked Quixtar.com, Ada-tudes and the Qzone blogs and nothing, other than they did post the question on Beth’s blog:
http://insidequixtar.opportunityzone.com/2007/11/06/New-look-and-feel-for-Quixtarcom.aspx
It is possible that IBO’s above a certain pin has been told, but that doesn’t help me.
November 28th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
What I meant to say is Achievers is going on, but I don’t know anyone going..
November 28th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
Utah 95
Because…….. It’s a secret
November 28th, 2007 at 9:17 pm
IBOFB -
Not a word about Fanista except what everyone else is saying. They sure have nice Rules of Conduct for their new competing MLM. As for notice, they probably sent an email to the Founder’s Council. Later they’ll tell the IBOAI what they should think/do about it … That should do for notification!
November 29th, 2007 at 2:26 am
Tex [#92]
I’m not suggesting that a retail business the size of mine is right for most IBOs. My point is twofold: 1) That retailing at any size level is do-able, and not hard. 2) That customers like our products enough to reorder on their own. I don’t call my customers to reorder, they call me. And this is at retail prices, even Double X.
My examples of comparing the value of retail profit to a Platinum’s Performance Bonus is to show how much more profitable on a per-order basis, retailing can be for IBOs in the lower bracket. If Gross Profit provides more profit per-order than Performance Bonus dues for a Platinum, think of the comparison at the lower brackets.
This business needs stability, and part of stability would come from increased IBO retention. If an IBO is making (and keeping) at least a little money, the retention rate skyrockets. And when I say keep, I mean net profit after expenses, including tools.
The System uplines discourage retailing, the Independent uplines encourage it. At Achievers next week, I’ll be with couples way over the traditional age of retirement who haven’t been below the Platinum (f.k.a. Direct) level for decades. They encourage their many downline all to have retail customers. If you want 10 retail orders a month, you probably need a total of 50 customers. That’s what these folks encourage and that’s what their organizations do.
The System uplines discourage retailing because it puts no money in the leaders’ pockets. They want their people at Opens, Team Meetings, Seminars, doing QI’s etc. If their downline are out selling product, they’re not using or participating in the system. They way they get their money is to first get their time.
Choice on the size of retail business is there for everybody. However, with a business that one is unfamiliar with in the beginning, it is important that the teaching reflect the truth. I know, and I think you do too, that the System teaching about how to build the business is deceptive and false.
“Thunderstruck” [#93] says, if I understand him correctly, that to retail means you have another job. That is System teaching that he is repeating. The Systems heavily promote the six-figure income in their plan. Part of their brainwashing is to get you to hate your job and put all your efforts into the system (hence little to no retailing) to go for that six-figure income. They promote the idea of residual income. They are lying on how to get it.
Their System income is not residual. They have to keep going out and making the speeches, and keep recruiting to replace the ones that drop out. True residual income comes through the A/Q Marketing Plan, if each organization has IBOs with a good customer base.
Customers buy because they like the product, not because it makes them money. If they have a way to get the product, they’ll keep buying it. Spread that throughout a Platinum-ship, and you have profitability, high retention, and stability. That kind of organization provides the upline Emerald and above with true residual income.
That is why this whole issue of the survival of this business is more than just how much money they make off the tools. It’s about the whole perspective and the way of building the business that they teach. They’ve taught this lie for so long to so many people that everybody including themselves believe that’s the way it is and always has been.
I say it’s time to show the world they are wrong.
November 29th, 2007 at 2:33 am
Thunderstruck [#93]
Customers are essential to every business. No business can be without them. Right now, most of the customers of this business are IBOs buying for their own personal consumption. And most of that business is tied to the IBOs making money. No money, they drop out and stop using the products. Why? Because the products were promoted as discount products (which they are not!), and IBOs are told to use the products to get their PV/BV. Without proper product training, the benefits go unnoticed, and the IBO-customers don’t continue buying the product after dropping out of the business and no longer needing the PV it generated.
As Tex correctly states, the uplines discourage retail sales. I put additional relevant comments about this topic in the post to Tex. I hope you read it.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
Hey guys,
Let’s not be afraid to update the blog. I’d sure like to comment on the price changes overseas and compair that to “Simply.”
But I’d like to know if this blog is dead first. (They say the blog is the first thing to go)
December 1st, 2007 at 2:44 pm
Thunderdunce #93,
It is each IBO’s decision whether they want primarily a network or retail business, and whether they want a larger or smaller business. In other words, it’s none of your business, both literally and figuratively. Unfortunately, the huge network business is what has been pushed hard by the tool scammers, because that’s where the big bucks are for them.
December 1st, 2007 at 11:47 pm
Tex, I am convinced you are a communist… Go Tex Just Go.
December 4th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Conan_78 #101,
The moderators have real jobs, and I wouldn’t be surprised they have slowed down to review the posts more carefully, because of the UK lawsuit.
Utah #103,
The new achievers have been posting on Nick’s site, but he doesn’t allow any “hard” questions, because they agreed to post their experiences, not to address the tool scam facts. Many of them may not even be aware of the tool scam.
G #105,
Why didn’t the Founders Council notify the IBO’s? After all, the Founders Council/IBOAI claims to represent us, how can they do that and keep secrets from us?
The Big Apple #106,
I agree with everything you said, too bad you’re not on Nick’s blog this week. Tell us what you find out, thanks.
Jerad #108,
Looks like you’re wrong, again.
confused #110,
You are true to your name, “confused”. I believe in FREE enterprise (not the tools being free, but the tool profit knowledge being freely known). Not SECRET enterprise (screw your group via the secret tool scam and lie about this is where most of your profit comes from). Or for some of you, where your “profit sharing” comes from.
I am convinced you are truly confused, “confused”.
Go “confused”, Just Go.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
Tex 98
Some things just happen, but very few things. Most of the time there are conditions that preceed stuff happening. Changing the name back to Amway (despite a no confidence vote from the entire IBOAI, if you want the audio of Rich Devos saying they wouldn’t change the deal without consent from the IBOIA, it’s out there find it), having really odd rules about depth building, secrectly developing another MLM. Look around you. Pretty soon you’ll be happy you never built it.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Tex #98 AND #109
I am uh…well…honored, I guess, now that I received two responses from you re: the same post. Of course, that post was not for you but once again, you just butt in. By the way, how are your 10 downlines doing? And gee, it’s OUR decision, I’ve been saying that all along!! If you don’t like the system tools, don’t buy them. But it has been proven over and over that building a big business is totally dependent on a system, not yourself. I think “confused #110″ hit it right on the spot. It’s not that you can make money on the tools, you believe people make too much. That is directly against capitalism, maybe you are communist. I know your response will be that the “tool kingpins” are raking in all this dough by taking advantage of their downlines. Get a grip.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
The Big Apple #107
I agree with you 100%, but I do not agree with your last statement from Tex. My upline NEVER discouraged me from selling products and only self consume. It was very hard to sell because of pricing. Yes, I would explain the benifits of a superior product line, but with most people that comes secondary to pricing. And get this, since I resigned from Q and no longer buy from them, I have realized most of the public is correct, the trade off from “superior” products to “inferior” is secondary to pricing. My teeth are still white, my breath is fresh, I do not have b.o., and my hair is shiny. I just don’t spend as much.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Tex #91
50,000 last week? I want to join up with you!! Without a system what is your secret? Your Charm? Good Looks? Vast knowledge on wealth? Oh, I get it, you were lying. Sorry, seeing that I’m a “dunce” it takes me a while, I thought you were serious when you stated you signed up 50,000. By the way, our basic system runs about $60 a month give or take. I have met with people who say they cannot afford it, they tell me this while they are smoking and have the cable t.v. going. What I’m saying is NOBODY has gone bankrupted from system, they go bankrupt because they have a scarcity mentallity and are unwilling to change. Finally, How does sharing profits make it an illegal pyramid? I agree you dont share with everybody, but setting up a profit sharing FORMULA that all qualified people participate in is the most fair system out there. Look, I understand your problem with the people “up top” getting all this tool money and then sharing with people of their choice. It is unfair. But what if your top people didn’t do it that way. Let’s just say you qualify by achieving some success, a predetermined level. You hit that level and now you get to participate in a profit sharing program that is completely set up by a formula. All can benefit, all are equal, the cost of the system is not out of whack price wise. Maybe you do have to sacrifice some current activity, maybe give up drinking beer, or going out to eat so ofte, or the movies, something that is not significant in your life. You instead, through this system, reprogram your thought process, institute positive and motivational beliefs. You begin to feel better about yourself, you are developing a sense of confidence and you act on it, you then act enough so it becomes a habit, once the habit is established you then get positive results. Then, you see what an impact it has made in your life and you want to share it with other people. Soon, you have several doing the same thing. That spreads. And all benefit. What is really so wrong with that?
December 4th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Tex #99 -
Oh you’re so right … it’s NOT MLM - it’s CiC aka Common Interest Commerce (chuckle)
Horse of a different color, still equine. Designed to encourage width, not depth building. Different product lines (unless your name is Barnes & Noble Partner Store)
Beyond that, you’d have considerable fun explaining the differences … they’re rather subtle. They even talk about “showing the plan” in Rules of Conduct.
Take a look at the Rules of Conduct for this “opportunity” and I believe you might change your tune as to what it is …
December 4th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
Because I can’t put this in “Why We Fight Part 1″ because it seems to be closed…I submit this here:
“From: Julie.Savara@quixtar.com
To: TNZETTEL@YAHOO.COM
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2007 2:53:46 PM
Subject: QBI Bonus
QBI money and trips are offered and paid at Quixtar’s sole discretion. If you would like to appeal Quixtar’s decision not to pay, you may seek conciliation through Quixtar’s dispute resolution process.
Julie Savara”
Is this an actual Quixtar E-Mail? If it is, I guess any and all debate is over. Unfortunately out point is now admitted fact.
December 9th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
Is it true that recruitment is down from 1000-1200 a day to 400 a day?
December 11th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
AEM #112,
As I have stated previously, I’m glad they are changing the name back to Amway, as it will force the tool scammers to be addressed, because doing the name change without fixing the tool scam is a recipe for disaster, especially in the U.S.
You also aren’t apparently aware the agreement was changed years ago, you are trying to use ancient history to support a changed scenario.
Look around you. Pretty soon you’ll be wondering why you never built it.
December 11th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
ThunderDUNCE #113,
I’ll respond to whatever post I choose to, thank you very much. The downline are doing great, thanks for asking. I like the tools and the system, just not the prices and the resulting lies regarding the MA$$IVE amount of money the upline makes from them.
I think “confused #110″ hit it right on his thumb. It’s not that you can make money on the tools, I believe people make too much to be silent about it. That is directly against being honest, maybe you are liar. I know my response will be that the “tool kingpins” are raking in all this dough by taking advantage of their downlines and lying about where their wealth comes from. Get a grip.
December 11th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
ThunderDUNCE #114,
“My upline NEVER discouraged me from selling products and only self consume.” —- Not discouraging someone is not the same as training and encouraging selling products, never mind ensuring the downline understands they aren’t supposed to get downline volume bonus unless minimum retail requirements are met.
ThunderDunce #115,
The 50,000 last week was a joke, meant to demonstrate how your claims are also not verifiable. You want to join up with me? If I thought you were serious, I would invite you to join this site and send me a PM with your e-mail address: http://z4.invisionfree.com/QstarTalk/index.php?
Why do you think I don’t have a system? I do have one. Your Charm? Good Looks? Vast knowledge on wealth? —- All of the above.
I’m glad you finally caught up the 50,000 wasn’t real, it was to make a point, as described above. But the DUNCE admission is okay with me, you’ve earned that title again.
By the way, your basic system runs about $60 a month give or take? What does it consist of for that cost?
The fact that people smoke and have cable TV is not a valid reason for ripping them off via the tool scam, and giving the illusion the success is from Q, when it is in reality from the tool scam. Plenty of people have gone broke/bankrupt using the system, it is all over the internet, it has NOTHING to do with their “scarcity mentality” or “unwillingness to change”. Those are lines you are being fed from upline to cover up the tool scam.
How does sharing profits make it an illegal pyramid? —- I never said it was an illegal pyramid.
If you don’t tell EVERY prospect and IBO the formula, you are lying to them. Period.
Look, you don’t understand the problem with the people “up top” getting all this tool money and then sharing with people of their choice, as that method was disposed of by many tool scam organizations long ago.
But what if your top people didn’t do it that way? —- If they misrepresent the source of their profit, they are STILL liars, regardless of your flowery “success” language.
What is really so wrong with that? —- See above.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:39 am
Tex#111,
Wrong about what? The blog being dead? Compairing prices? End of year bonuses? What?
December 16th, 2007 at 2:17 am
New news from Q/A for new Nutrilite Products:
http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/071212/0339072.html
December 19th, 2007 at 1:50 am
ThunderSTRUCK [#114]
I’m glad to hear you weren’t discouraged from selling. Were you encouraged? Did they give you product and sales training?
There are some relatively isolated uplines, and even a System or two that teach and encourage retail sales, but they are a very small minority. Although I will say that the tide may be turning with the changes that Quixtar is pushing through. Then again, those changes may just be window dressing.
If we don’t solve the bigger problem about how the Systems approach the business, we’ll still have them using the products and the A/Q marketing plan to lure people into their System, claiming it trains them to build and A/Q business, when it doesn’t.
I hear you say “hard to sell because of pricing,” but not impossible. That is good. It shouldn’t be easy, just doable with the right training and talking to the right person.
One thing worth saying to everyone is that our products are not for the masses. That’s the Wal-Mart, Costco, etc., territory. Smart businesses don’t even try to compete in that game for they’ll surely loose. Our products (not “Options” and “SFM” products!) are for the particular consumer that does appreciate quality and where necessary is willing to pay a premium for that product. Of course some of our products aren’t premium priced, they just get great “mileage.”
Making the distinction between who is a viable customer and who is not is part of good sales training. After all, if you owned a wine store, would you try to sell a $100 bottle of red Bordeaux wine to someone who doesn’t know or appreciate fine wine?
December 19th, 2007 at 1:54 am
Tex [#111]
Thanks for asking. Achievers was fantastic. I was home for three days and had to travel again. I’ll post about it when I’ve caught up on my backlog of work.
I will say this, though. The attitude about the changes, including the name change, was largely positive.
More later.
December 30th, 2007 at 3:35 am
Anyone know why the blogs have gone silent?
Anyone confirm that Alticor is out of Fantista?
Any word on the status of Amway UK?
December 30th, 2007 at 3:38 am
My post, currently 119, with the quote from Quixtar saying it is OK to be in Fantista may not be true if the new web posts including a new letter from the corporation saying that Alticor is out of Fantista are true.
January 22nd, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Jerad #122,
Pretty much everything.
The Big Apple #124,
Although I agree with you on pricing to a certain extent, you can only ride that quality horse so far. Plus, one of the things Amway was famous for (and can still be easily proven for some products) is how price competitive the products are. I think what has happened over the past couple of decades is the various discount stores and cheap China products have caused prices to drop, and A/Q wasn’t paying attention.
Keep in mind prices in the major cities (especially the coasts) are typically higher than other parts of the country, and Quixtar has one price for everyone.
In fact, a couple of years ago an Achievers conference was held in Dallas, and some of the “kingpins” and VERY high level corporate brass went to a Walmart to see for themselves. I consider this to be a massive waste of time when they should have been celebrating, and let others do price comparisons.
The price reductions and free registration in the UK should be brought to the U.S., if for no other reason the IBO’s expect it to happen.
January 22nd, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Utah #126/7,
Anyone know why the blogs have gone silent? - Probably legal reasons.
Anyone confirm that Alticor is out of Fantista? - Old news, they announced they are out.
Any word on the status of Amway UK? - Nope.
January 27th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
The Big Apple #124
Yes, I had plenty of product and sales training from my uplines, still didn’t work. Prices too high. Not many people, despite “higher quality”, can justify over
$ 7.00 for a lousy can of shaving cream. And correct, it is not “impossible” to sell due to the high prices. I ended up doing fairly nicely with my Q business, just that now I have the 90 pound Q anchor off of my neck, I know my business will be going MUCH better. I see you went to achievers, tell me, how much recognition was there?