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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
October 24th, 2007 @ 8:45 pm ET…
Why we fight, part 1
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
After being on the defensive for 20 straight legal attacks, we filed suit yesterday against the corporation that owns TEAM.
We filed suit because the single legal case we brought (and won) in this matter listed Orrin Woodward as a defendant—but Woodward then claimed to have magically disappeared as the manager of TEAM before the case was heard. (A legal trick like that is like pretending Rich and Jay have nothing to do with our company—but never mind. We’ll straighten it out.)
We filed suit because TEAM has had multiple chances to play by the rules in this dispute, but have gambled that they do not have to play by them. They have interfered with non-compete agreements. They have interfered with non-solicitation agreements. They refuse to arbitrate.
But most of all, we are filing suit because TEAM has taken proprietary business information from Quixtar that IBOs could be using right now to build Quixtar businesses.
If you leave your place of work today, you would leave behind your tools and information so that those who remain can carry on the business. You can’t help yourself to your computer, the stapler, the coffeemaker—or the company’s customer list.
That is ethically and morally wrong. It is also legally wrong. And that’s why we filed suit.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
November 8th, 2007 at 12:51 am
What is going on? #779 Corporate Communications Says:
Tex, we owe you a “p.”
Then Tex asked Corporate Communications about the “p” and called them CC #2
Tex are you CC #1?
November 8th, 2007 at 12:54 am
well i see Ms.Tex need love;the people are making they own decision,you’re nobody not even an ibo,and good for you at least you have something good in your life….
God bless you!!
ps. a friend mine it’s a emerald founder and he is resign to amway after bonuses…
am still thinking………….about ibo future
November 8th, 2007 at 12:57 am
glenn #791,
I’m sure that in the world you live in your insults make you feel like a big man. I’d say it’s safe to say that from all the comments I have read from people that you are nothing more than a small figment of your limited imagination. You really should try reading some leadership books, they would help your poor attitude and maybe, just maybe you could find a friend or 2 in this world. If you had a friend then maybe you could see the error of your ways and that your insults only make you look like the small person you are and will continue to be. I’ll say a prayer for you tonight, maybe he can help you see that you hurt nobody but yourself.
Take care and may you find some constructive avenue for your anger, it’s not healthy for a person to be so angry.
All of my insults put together don’t measure up to the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit insult that Orrin and Co. filed in CA. You know, the one that was DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE?
November 8th, 2007 at 12:57 am
he is ready to resign 450 people!!!! #797
November 8th, 2007 at 1:05 am
sorry am new ibo,i have a question,am royal prestige sales man and primerica former nobody tell me abuot not to be whit others mlm,,,that means i cant be whit team.biz???
why?
any difference beetween this mlm and team?
Thank you for your help
i dont want troubles whit this corp.
November 8th, 2007 at 1:07 am
rico #792,
Grow up, you’re being so PC it’s sickening. You’re an idiot, which is an insult to all the real idiots.
Admin #794,
Pepperoni Pizza, Painted Pony….
November 8th, 2007 at 1:07 am
THIS COMPANY QUIXTAR IT’S BAD!!
I NEVER SEE LEADERS LEAVING FROM MY MLM(PRIMERICA)
November 8th, 2007 at 1:13 am
Tex, I am a nice guy but some aren’t as nice as me. You are going to slander someone on this blog, they are going to get an attorney to get a court order to demand that Quixtar release your contact information, then they are going to sue you for slander. I hope they win. Maybe that will shut you up.
November 8th, 2007 at 11:01 am
Tex
If you think I am a Liar goto quixtar.com and see for yourself. When you login it ask you if have an existing account, if not it then ask me if I want to be an IBO or customer. If you just want to browse you simply check shopping catagories
November 8th, 2007 at 11:22 am
Tex #782
This argument completely ignores the fact that the whole point in mentioning how many people attended the convention is no small amount. —- “I never claimed it was a small amount.”
You’re denying the fact that Orrin will indeed have a substantial amount of people to start his own business. You mentioned earlier that he would have to “start all over” and “all alone.”
You mentioned that Orrin was all “alone” and would have to “start all over” with a new business, but 38,000 people to start with is no small amount! —- “I said he may have to wait a lot longer than 6 months from August 9th, and may lose a lot of his stolen IBO’s by then. I also said it wouldn’t surprise me if the Orrinites went the TIF route, by starting a new product MLM that falls apart after a year or two, then Orrin goes off on his own with a Andy Andrews style speaking tour. I also said he probably wouldn’t be as successful, as he isn’t nearly as funny as Andy. Going back to GM is looking better every day for Orrin.”
I don’t know if you realize this, but Orrin has already made his millions in the business so he doesn’t have to do ANYTHING if he didn’t want to. He wants to help everyone in his business achieve what he has. He could’ve just quit now and enjoy his riches for the rest of his life. But instead, his vision for America’s future goes beyond that.
I agree. A/Q will be licking their wounds after TEAM takes over the industry REGARDLESS of the arbitration results! —- “That depends how much the Orrinites have left after arbitration.”
It wouldn’t matter if ALL of them left (which is only growing more and more). The opportunity will be so much more superior that the business would explode anyway.
Again, where are the “facts” that you say have. I asked you last time and you didn’t produce. You claimed that I argued without facts and that you were the only one with the facts. So where are the facts on the notification of rules violations for 6 years? Or are you going to admit that you just don’t have it? —- “I never said I had direct evidence of the 6 years of violations, but I do have the logic a 3rd grader could grasp.”
You stated that Orrin had been notified of his violations for the past 6 years without any evidence whatsoever. Now who’s blowing smoke?
What is the point of this? So now you’re saying that A/Q are bold faced back stabbers? Now I’m not surprised. —- “The point is to give Orrin a chance to clean his own house without putting him in the dog house. That isn’t back stabbing, that is good business. Are you really this stupid?”
When you start name calling, it just shows that you’re out of logical arguments.
Why would he do that if he is unaware of any problems? He’s being praised by A/Q, not reprimanded. —- “Praised in public. Do you honestly believe Orrin would be quiet about the 6 years of violations mentioned in his termination letter if there hadn’t been any? Again, are you really this stupid?”
When you start name calling, it just shows that you’re out of logical arguments.
Who says A/Q was required to “trash” Orrin to notify him of violations? All they had to do was notify him. That’s all. They didn’t even do that until his termination papers. —- “How do you know, genius?”
Because if they did, there would be a paper trail of evidence. A real company would leave a paper trail of rules infractions to cover their rear ends, but there’s nothing.
Profits that go into your pocket and into your downline’s pocket, AFTER Quixtar have big enough PRODUCT scam business volume!!! —- yawn.
You still have not come through on this claim. —- “One more time, are you really this stupid?”
One more time, name calling just shows that you don’t have any logical arguments. I don’t know if you knew this, but name calling does not support your position at all.
November 8th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
Can someone lead me to where it says Orrin and Chris MUST go to arbitration.
If they want to ride out the 6 months2 years and move forward now what is stopping them, aside from the Nevada lawsuit (possibly).
What would make a judge or arbitrator levy a heavier penalty than 6 months on Orrin and Chris. Would they simply not say, this is the rule, follow it??
By my math, February 10th would be the end of the 6 month period for being involved in a competing MLM. Is my math wrong?
November 8th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Shocked and Confused #754
TexSpin #784
Shocked…Yes it is called “stacking” and yes Quixtar has done it for quite some time now. Quixtar makes the rules, but they don’t have to follow them.
As to your other point. I too have seen Amway products on retail store shelves in my home town.
I’ve complained to the Rules and Ethics Dept. who tell me that they can’t and won’t do anything about it.
TexSpin doesn’t get paid to tell you the truth.
He gets paid to belittle you and call you names.
He IS the new voice of Amway.
November 8th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Looks like Q lost another court case. Can’t interfere with our progress and moving on. I know that there is a long ways to go, but it looks more and more logic is starting to surface. Unlike Q’s lawsuit against TEAM seeking “damages”, damages for what? Not wanting to stay with a company that threatens at every move? They need to understand people are leaving CAUSE THEY WANT TO. We are not being coerced or even asked what we want. We know what we want and that is to go where Orrin and Chris go. Period. So leave us alone.
Most Q people are so excited about the California Case being “dismissed with prejudice”, but what they aren’t saying is that is no big deal. The case wasn’t dismissed due to the content, just the venue. And it has to go to arbitration and can’t be held in another court room. Still, if we have to wait the six months I say congratulations to Q on winning that. Regarding your lawsuit against bloggers and TEAM, it will go nowhere as it has no merit.
November 8th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Tex said: “I have found a successful way.”
Tex. please share your success with us. What is your volume? How many customers do you have? What is your monthly retail profit?
How much do you make from the bonus schedule?
I hope you answer before people start believing you are a lying, cowardly retailer who is afraid to tell us where YOUR income comes from.
November 8th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
Dreamweaver #797,
Orrin and Co. started the suing, with his “illegal pyramid” lawsuit that reflects on every IBO. All Quixtar did was countersue to protect all of our reputations. the 30 bloggers are not being sued, they are being investigated to determine if their sites put Orrin and Chris in violation of an existing court order.
Orrin is,has been, will allways be on the lookout to help others. —- That’s the biggest lie any upline “kingpin” would like you to believe, as they drain you for MA$$IVE tool profits.
November 8th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
whatever #798,
Please point out where I was “spinning” anything. All I did was correct you. I guess you don’t like being caught making up your facts? —- I’m not going to argue with you over the “spinning” issue, it doesn’t make any difference to the tool scam facts.
I’m not sure even YOU know what you are trying to say here. —- Sure I do, you just have too much TEAMtesterone flowing through your veins to allow you to see the truth.
Your original statement implied that the lawsuit was somehow needed to “convince” others to follow Orrin after he left Q/A. The people that have left likely would have left with or without the lawsuit. —- I never said it was needed to convince ALL of those who left, but it did help convince at least some of them, perhaps most or many.
In fact, I’m sure that many that left questioned whether the suit should ever have been filed. —- I think Orrin and Co. are wondering how they could make such a bonehead move, looking back on it.
Actually, genius, most companies want arbitration to avoid costly litigation. —- Most corporations can easily outspend their opponents, making a court an unfair venue for them. The corporations are much more concerned about the negative publicity and the costs that would create, not the litigation costs themselves, “genius”.
Q/A seems to favor it only when it is on their home turf, with arbitrators they have trained. —- The new procedures allow for more independent arbitrators, please try to keep up.
What is “Predudice,” genius? And, if it wasn’t dismissed based upon the merits, it isn’t “getting crushed.” —- It essentially means don’t even think about coming back, because you don’t belong in court. So, not only did Orrin and Co. break a Quixtar rule by going to the courts in the first place, the court agreed the rules were enforceable in arbitration. In other words, hit the road. There is no reason for the court to even look at the merits of the case, Orrin and Co. never got to first base.
The Q/A lawyers still didn’t understand what was going on, even after all of your meetings with them? —- Only one. And we spent most of the time going over the tool scam, not this particular case.
Either that, or maybe your reality is just a bit different than the rest of ours, including the judge’s. —- The judge clearly doesn’t understand how much Orrin and Co. are damaging Quixtar and breaking the non-compete rules. By the time it gets to the arbitrator, there will be much more time to explain things and submit evidence.
November 8th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
Dreamweaver #799,
Nothing has changed. Your volume would go to a local Platinum, just like it was the 60’s and someone called in on the telephone. Go somewhere else if you want to weave and spin your lies.
Tauraus #800,
Growth only happens when people are honest with each other. —- If that’s true, you are a seed that hasn’t germinated yet.
Never heard anything about you if you are honest wouldn’t you have a huge group like the Team. —- No, because I spent years getting ripped off by lying cowardly “kingpins”, who are very similar to TEAM. I registered many people, but when they couldn’t or didn’t want to keep spending money on the tool scam, they left.
Heard a lot about the Team and its leaders and their results. I haven’t seen any honesty on your part just insults and a lot of blah, blah, blah, blah blah. —- Their results are the tool scam. All you hear from me is honesty, facts, and logic. But your TEAMtosterone won’t allow it to sink in.
November 8th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
Pa #801,
To answer your question, No. Check the post again, that’s not what I said.
nO mOrE qUIK sTAR ! #802 LEAD #804,
I have no idea what you were trying to say.
OOPPSS!!! sue,me? #805,
What is this, a disease? See response to #802 and 804, above.
OOPPSS!!! sue,me? #807,
Maybe you haven’t noticed because you’re not paying attention.
Jeffrey #808,
First of all, it’s libel when in writing, slander if it is speaking. It’s not libel if what I am stating is true. Also, even if what I state is not true, but I believe it is true, it still isn’t libel. Therefore, you lose.
If the lying cowardly “kingpins” would like to get involved, I would happy to communicate with them here. However, after being “banned” from the IBOAI blog, I’m not holding my breath.
You see, they will go after other bloggers who accuse them of cheating on their pin qualifications and other relatively minor issues, but when it comes to the basic business model, which is the tool scam, they are like little frightened girls, cowering behind their piles of tool scam money.
If it ever does end up in a legal environment, they would probably have to take me to arbitration.
November 8th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
doublehooks #809,
Perhaps your more of an idiot than a liar. Can you prove a Platinum doesn’t get credit for those purchases?
Monster Mash #810,
Can someone lead me to where it says Orrin and Chris MUST go to arbitration. —- Getting a little nervous, are we? What makes you think Quixtar can’t initiate the arbitration process, and conduct it whether Orrin and Co. shows up or not?
If they want to ride out the 6 months2 years and move forward now what is stopping them, aside from the Nevada lawsuit (possibly). —- Arbitration may result in an extension of the 6 months, to pay them back for the damage they did with their “illegal pyramid” and other baseless lawsuits.
What would make a judge or arbitrator levy a heavier penalty than 6 months on Orrin and Chris. Would they simply not say, this is the rule, follow it?? —- As stated above, for the damage they caused.
By my math, February 10th would be the end of the 6 month period for being involved in a competing MLM. Is my math wrong? —- We’ll find out in less than 3 months.
November 8th, 2007 at 9:18 pm
IBO To Go #811,
Are you trying to post something even more stupid than your previous posts? Go back and read this thread, you have a lot to learn about stacking.
Put your details on the blog regarding the retail store issue, I think it will get attention. I have complained about ebay postings, and they were handled appropriately.
November 8th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
Thunderdunce #812,
Looks like Q lost another court case. —- That wasn’t losing a case, it was a judge agreeing with another judge on a very narrow issue.
Can’t interfere with our progress and moving on. —- We’ll see what arbitration has to say about that.
I know that there is a long ways to go, but it looks more and more logic is starting to surface. —- I agree with this, but it’s not what you are thinking, I’m sure of that.
Unlike Q’s lawsuit against TEAM seeking “damages”, damages for what? —- Damages for insulting every single IBO with the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit, and damaging the business reputation. That’s big bucks, even for lying cowardly “kingpins”.
Not wanting to stay with a company that threatens at every move? —- Threatened what? Asking you if you were going to follow the rules you already signed a contract to follow?
They need to understand people are leaving CAUSE THEY WANT TO. We are not being coerced or even asked what we want. We know what we want and that is to go where Orrin and Chris go. Period. So leave us alone. —- You are leaving because you failed the IQ test. Bub-bye.
Most Q people are so excited about the California Case being “dismissed with prejudice”, but what they aren’t saying is that is no big deal. —- It’s a big deal, because it proves it shouldn’t have been filed in the first place.
The case wasn’t dismissed due to the content, just the venue. —- I agree, and can’t wait to get to the content part, although it probably won’t be publicized very much.
And it has to go to arbitration and can’t be held in another court room. Still, if we have to wait the six months I say congratulations to Q on winning that. Regarding your lawsuit against bloggers and TEAM, it will go nowhere as it has no merit. —- You may not feel as congratulatory when the extended time and fines are levied. The lawsuit isn’t against the bloggers, it is a discovery process to enforce the court order against O&C. How many times does this have to be repeated for you to get it?
November 8th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
MichMan #813,
Read #753.
November 8th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
tex 760
I was referring to repeat business, my mistake. Xs is competitively priced but not after shipping, and now It is no longer even competitive even in the regular market place, there are several drinks who have now dropped the prices to be more competitive like rip-t that is 99 cents for twice the size..
I see it as embarrassing because they were just humoring me, not unlike some of the people on these blogs do to you..
I was talking to “dudes” that just wanted to be customers which is what Q wanted us to focus on FIRST and building a business SECOND and referrals third. I tried that and it didn’t work so I switched to business first, products second, which is exactly what Q is complaining about. And now I get berated for doing so, by the same people who refuse to give a competitive price in order to do so.
The new rules say and I could be wrong, that in order to qualify for a check you must have at least 10 outside customers with at least 100 pv between all 10. I’d like to see you do that every month without fudging the numbers or making up fake customers..
quality, you’re joking right? 95% of the people don’t care about quality! That is why the asian cars have become so huge in this country they started out poor quality at an affordable price and made up for profit margins with more volume and now they have some of the best cars in the world still competitive if not cheaper than american cars.
convenience, again 95% said that they’ve got to go to the store anyway to get stuff they need that can’t be bought online like milk and eggs and everything they need is at the same store, so what is so convenient about waiting and paying for shipping?
Yes I do support the system and the profit sharing plan. 2 reasons, first profit sharing makes up for the lack of profit from Q, If Qs profit was decent enough or prices low enough, either or, you wouldn’t need a profit sharing at all. Second a system allows you to leverage something bigger than yourself to build a decent business without running yourself ragged trying to train hundreds of people all by yourself!
November 8th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
Tex,
OHHHHHH. You meant “prejudice” instead of “predudice.” I see. I figured that someone like you that criticizes spelling and grammar errors so much must have meant what you said. My bad.
And, I’m pretty sure I don’t have any “TEAMtesterone” keeping me from seeing anything. I’m just not as willing as you are to speculate about where things will end up and state it as fact.
November 8th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Tex, stop dodging the questions.
How many customers DO YOU have? How much volume DO YOU retail? What is YOUR retail profit? How many people who HAVE YOU TAUGHT to do the same?
You are the one who stated you had found your “successful way.”
So please share your success.
November 8th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
After being shocked and confused, I thought I would read the blogs to find answers. All I have found so far is mostly the opinions of one man possessed by bitterness and hatred. He would not be able to recognize true leadership if he tripped over it! He appears to be the kind of person who never accepts personal responsiblity for the consequences of his own actions or choices. He would rather blame the tool scam for all his problems! I bet he even blames the tool scam for his failed relationships, too!
Bitterness and hatred is a prison without bars. Until he learns to forgive, he will never be able to set himself free.
November 9th, 2007 at 1:06 am
I think Tex does work for Alticor now because they won’t do anything about it. Just like they won’t do anything about anything else, like buying right off the site. I’m out of here. Good riddance.
November 9th, 2007 at 1:30 am
Good books to read for everyone, “SKILL WITH PEOPLE” by Les Giblin,”personality PLUS” by Flourence Littaure
November 9th, 2007 at 3:57 am
Tex #819
you forgot to reply to #810. you replied to monster mash #811 instead but labeled it as “#810″
Or was that inentional?
November 9th, 2007 at 9:11 am
TEX #819
I am far from nervous. I am not certain Quixtar cannot initiate the arbitration process, and conduct it whether Orrin and Co. shows up or not. That is why I put the post up. My question is can they? Do you know they can? Or are you guessing that may be a possibility?
Are Orrin and Chris a part of Quixtar? (I know TEX you are glad/overjoyed/whatever at the answer) The answer obviously is they are not. What would make them have to go to arbitration and follow the outcome unless the arbitration process was mutually agreed upon now? I know the CA judge refered the issue to an arbitrator, but it was that issue and Orrin and Chris do not have to follow through with that issue if they choose not to.
Can Quixtar initiate the process on someone who is not a employee:)(Formerly IBO for those of you paying close enough attention) TEX our mighty Quixtar warrior seems to think so! What do other know?
November 9th, 2007 at 9:14 am
Tex #821
A “narrow issue”?, it only takes the ball to cross the plain to score a touchdown. The six points don’t come with an asterisk.
Arbitration cannot extend the six month clause -this is from my lawyer. In fact, he told me that any non compete invoked on an already existing employee (or in this case IBO) will NEVER be upheld in court. Now I see why Q wanted out and into arbitration.
The only damages here are self inflicted by Q. I have not seen one post suggesting anyone left Q because of the CA lawsuit, but I seen many posts say they are leaving due to how Q is handling this.
Q didn’t ask me if I would follow the rules. They demanded a letter of allegience or face termination.
I would be careful about the IQ thing. Your battle here isn’t on your merit, it’s on emotion. When is your IQ going to surface?
Your right about the content in arbitration wont surface much. Just like Q wants it. There is the secrecy again. Congratulations on backing a communist based business. Rule with an iron fist and all info stays with us. It is true that the tool earnings were published by TEAM, and Q demanded them to stop (which we did).
Last I saw, the bloggers were getting sued. Accusing Orrin and Chris of being behind this is Q’s way of trying to get us to shut up. Believe me, this will be thrown out of court, probably with prejudice. And you thought the CA lawsuit of a pyramid scheme was baseless? This is laughable!!! Just like trying to get the convention cancelled, making up stories. What was there reason? Oh yea, we were introducing a “new business”, and “stealing” current IBO’s. Q is a joke.
November 9th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Tex
I can’t prove they don’t get credit, just as you can’t prove they do. Good luck with your Q/A business I hopes it works out for you, but as for me I am looking forward to the future with the team.
November 9th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
ben #823,
You are ignoring quality and focusing ONLY on price. Also, the XS syrup costs about $0.50 a serving. $75 order gets you free shipping. I think you’re out of excuses now.
I see it as embarrassing because they were just humoring me, not unlike some of the people on these blogs do to you.. —- There’s jokers everywhere, you have to learn to ignore them.
I was talking to “dudes” that just wanted to be customers which is what Q wanted us to focus on FIRST and building a business SECOND and referrals third. I tried that and it didn’t work so I switched to business first, products second, which is exactly what Q is complaining about. And now I get berated for doing so, by the same people who refuse to give a competitive price in order to do so. —- Berated from who? It appears you didn’t get enough training to be successful at product sales. You can thank your upline for that.
The new rules say and I could be wrong, that in order to qualify for a check you must have at least 10 outside customers with at least 100 pv between all 10. I’d like to see you do that every month without fudging the numbers or making up fake customers.. —- You are wrong. Read the rules again.
quality, you’re joking right? 95% of the people don’t care about quality! That is why the asian cars have become so huge in this country they started out poor quality at an affordable price and made up for profit margins with more volume and now they have some of the best cars in the world still competitive if not cheaper than american cars. —- No, I’m not joking. I think more people care about quality than you think, if they understood the benefits. There are cars that cost more and some that cost less. By your logic, they shouldn’t be able to sell to more than 5% of the higher priced cars, which I don’t think is the case, because educated people do value quality.
convenience, again 95% said that they’ve got to go to the store anyway to get stuff they need that can’t be bought online like milk and eggs and everything they need is at the same store, so what is so convenient about waiting and paying for shipping? —- See above, I think an educated customer results in far less than 95%, and it isn’t hard for the customers to get free shipping.
Yes I do support the system and the profit sharing plan. 2 reasons, first profit sharing makes up for the lack of profit from Q, If Qs profit was decent enough or prices low enough, either or, you wouldn’t need a profit sharing at all. —- The problem with the “profit sharing” is it is a secret scam. Telling people ONLY that money is made via the system and not how MA$$IVE the profit is, is only the partial truth, which makes it a full lie. There is plenty of profit in Q, if you don’t stack and make some retail sales. If you lower the prices, there is less money available for bonuses, do you really want this?
Second a system allows you to leverage something bigger than yourself to build a decent business without running yourself ragged trying to train hundreds of people all by yourself! —- I’m not against the system, just the system scam.
November 9th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
whatever #824,
OHHHHHH. You meant “prejudice” instead of “predudice.” I see. I figured that someone like you that criticizes spelling and grammar errors so much must have meant what you said. My bad. —- Thanks for pointing out the typo, I never claimed to be perfect. I agree, you are bad. Very, very bad.
And, I’m pretty sure you do have “TEAMtesterone” coursing through your veins, keeping you from seeing anything. I’m just not as willing as you are to speculate about where things will end up and state it as fact, such as the speculation on A/Q selling around the IBO’s.
November 9th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
MichMan $825,
Read #753. Again.
I have previously stated I am not going to answer any personal business questions until I go Platinum.
Plus, my business details don’t change the facts, this debate isn’t about me, it’s about the tool scam issue.
Also, you wouldn’t know if I was being accurate, so what’s the purpose of doing that?
November 9th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Shocked and Confused! #826,
After being shocked and confused, you’re still shocked and confused. You have picked a very appropriate name.
I thought I would read the blogs to find answers. —- You did, read my posts.
All I have found so far is mostly the opinions of one man possessed by bitterness and hatred. —- You are still shocked and confused. Or worse.
He would not be able to recognize true leadership if he tripped over it! —- True leadership doesn’t lie. The tool scam is one big lie.
He appears to be the kind of person who never accepts personal responsiblity for the consequences of his own actions or choices. —- Sure I have, that’s why I’m here and taking other actions against the lying cowardly “kingpins”.
He would rather blame the tool scam for all his problems! —- I blame the tool scam for the A/Q business failures of many curent and former IBO’s/Distributors.
I bet he even blames the tool scam for his failed relationships, too! —- What failed relationships?
Bitterness and hatred is a prison without bars. Until he learns to forgive, he will never be able to set himself free. —- I agree, but I am neither. Tool scammers haven’t earned the right to be forgiven. Would you forgive a serial killer and put him back on the streets?
November 9th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Jeffrey #827,
Bub-bye. Hope you learn the facts some day.
Pa #828,
I agree, both are excellent books.
marc #829,
Sometimes the posts shift when the moderator takes longer to post one, that’s why I include both the person and post number, so you can find the orignal post when this happens. I think I answered your post, but perhaps I inadvertently deleted it (which as you is very hard to believe) or the moderator deleted it by mistake. So here it is again:
I think arbitration is going to be so hard on him, he won’t have many people left when it is all over, the extended waiting period is over, and his reputation is all over.
I realize he is a tool scammer, but has probably created a lifestyle that must be supported, and what he knows is how to scam people on tools. He may have a positive vision, but his methods stink.
It wouldn’t matter if ALL of them left (which is only growing more and more). The opportunity will be so much more superior that the business would explode anyway. —- We’ll have to wait and see how much more “superior” Orrin’s new plan is, won’t we?
You stated that Orrin had been notified of his violations for the past 6 years without any evidence whatsoever. Now who’s blowing smoke? —- See post #769 from ibofb. Looks like you’re blowing smoke.
When you start name calling, it just shows that you’re out of logical arguments.
Why would he do that if he is unaware of any problems? He’s being praised by A/Q, not reprimanded. —- “Praised in public. Do you honestly believe Orrin would be quiet about the 6 years of violations mentioned in his termination letter if there hadn’t been any? Again, are you really this stupid?”
When you start name calling, it just shows that you’re out of logical arguments. —- No, I am not out of logical arguments, I was asking you to use your logic, which you demonstrated you can’t/won’t do, and now we have ibofb saying even Orrin admitted the termination letters are accurate.
Because if they did, there would be a paper trail of evidence. A real company would leave a paper trail of rules infractions to cover their rear ends, but there’s nothing. —- There’s nothing in the termination letter, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t other evidence. A/Q is under no obligation to post the rest of the documentation here, especially with active legal proceedings going on. I think you will find the paper trail as ibofb pointed out, above. Try to engage your brain next time.
One more time, name calling just shows that you don’t have any logical arguments. I don’t know if you knew this, but name calling does not support your position at all. —- And being stupid means you can’t follow a logical discussion at all. You have left many questions I have asked you unanswered. Such as, isn’t it logical if Quixtar was lying about the previous 6 years of rule violations on their termination letter, Orrin would have pushed back immediately, if not sooner?
November 9th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Monster Mash #830,
I don’t know if they can, I am drawing parallels to the court system and applying logic. If someone could get out of arbitration by simply not showing up, there wouldn’t be many arbitration proceedings or even a reason to have the detailed rules in place, would there?
They are not a part of Quixtar, but they still have contractual obligations. Similar to providing child support after getting divorced. That’s why the judge ordered them into arbitration. I think they would be in contempt of court if they didn’t want to show up, but I also think Quixtar would be happy to hold the proceedings without them there, because then the arbitrator will only hear one side of the story. Therefore, they have plenty of incentive to show up. Quixtar can take the arbitration to a court, and a “real” judge can enforce it. As I showed above, there has to be legal consequences to the arbitration rules, or there is no purpose for them.
November 9th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Thunderdunce #831,
The judge specifically kept this case confined to a very narrow issue. This was no “touchdown”, it was more like placing the ball on the kicking tee.
Your lawyer is wrong. The reason they ran to CA is because that is the only state that favors the extent of the non-compete, and it is used successfully by many companies. You also have an OPINION whether the 6 months could be extended, lawyers blow smoke all the time. If you want to convince me, state cases where extensions have been denied, and the circumstances.
The “illegal pyramid” lawsuit was not self inflicted by Q. There were plenty of IBO’s who stayed because of the CA lawsuit, why are you only counting those who left?
Q didn’t ask me if I would follow the rules. They demanded a letter of allegience or face termination. —- That’s because you already signed a contract that says you will follow the rules, and risk termination if you don’t.
I would be careful about the IQ thing. Your battle here isn’t on your merit, it’s on emotion. When is your IQ going to surface? —- My merit is on facts and logic, I don’t care what my IQ is. If you ever met me in person, I think you would conclude I am well informed and use facts and logic to arrive at reasonable conclusions.
Your right about the content in arbitration wont surface much. Just like Q wants it. There is the secrecy again. Congratulations on backing a communist based business. Rule with an iron fist and all info stays with us. It is true that the tool earnings were published by TEAM, and Q demanded them to stop (which we did). —- Why don’t you publish the tool “earnings” now? Q wanting to keep the information secret isn’t any different than any other large company.
Last I saw, the bloggers were getting sued. Accusing Orrin and Chris of being behind this is Q’s way of trying to get us to shut up. —- You misunderstood. They want to know the 30 bloggers identity so they can determine whether their actions were their own or being directed by O&C, the latter would be a violation of an existing court order.
Believe me, this will be thrown out of court, probably with prejudice. —- I think it has a good chance of going forward, how else can they enforce the existing court order?
And you thought the CA lawsuit of a pyramid scheme was baseless? This is laughable!!! —- Yes, I can’t wait until Q laughs all the way to the bank.
Just like trying to get the convention cancelled, making up stories. What was there reason? Oh yea, we were introducing a “new business”, and “stealing” current IBO’s. Q is a joke. —- Keeping people “fired up” during the 6 months constitutes violating the spirit of the non-compete in my book. We’ll have to see how the arbitrator views it.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
Tex,
You said…
I’m just not as willing as you are to speculate about where things will end up and state it as fact, such as the speculation on A/Q selling around the IBO’s.
I say you are getting me confused with someone else. I never said anything about A/Q selling around the IBOs. I don’t know, or care, whether they are or not. I’m no longer an IBO, so what difference would that make to me?
It is in fact you that likes to treat your assumptions and speculations as though they are fact. Like when you speculated that Orrin was getting beat up on the stand in the contempt hearing. You nailed that one, huh? Lets just wait and see where the chips fall, instead of pretending we have a crystal ball. Hey look…I’m a poet and didn’t even know it.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
doublehooks #832,
I can’t prove they don’t get credit, just as you can’t prove they do. —- The only way for me to be wrong is for Quixtar to be lying. I doubt they’re that dumb.
Good luck with your Q/A business I hopes it works out for you, but as for me I am looking forward to the future with the team. —- I’m looking forward to you becoming busy with ANYTHING else, so we don’t need to go over and over these idiotic ideas.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
whatever #840,
I say you are getting me confused with someone else. I never said anything about A/Q selling around the IBOs. I don’t know, or care, whether they are or not. I’m no longer an IBO, so what difference would that make to me? —- That was an example. I’m not going to go back and research everyone’s posts before I use an example to illustrate a point. You have said enough other bonehead things on this blog about other issues, THAT is for sure.
It is in fact you that likes to treat your assumptions and speculations as though they are fact. Like when you speculated that Orrin was getting beat up on the stand in the contempt hearing. You nailed that one, huh? Lets just wait and see where the chips fall, instead of pretending we have a crystal ball. Hey look…I’m a poet and didn’t even know it. —- I’ll comment as I want to, thank you very much. I still believe Orrin was getting beat up on the stand, it just wasn’t enough to cancel the KY function. He won’t have a protected environment in arbitration, as the rules of evidence and conduct are much more relaxed.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
Q just got whupped in Grand Rapids!! Seems like Judge Sullivan agrees that TEAM and Q are two totally different businesses!! Go to Q’Reilly for more info. As my favorite football announcer, Bob Ufer used to say: “Stuff that in your old tomata!”
Tex, I LOVED your comment on ‘keeping people “fired up” during the 6 months constitutes violating the spirit of the non compete in my book’. Judge Sullivan, like myself DISAGREE with you as he says “there is no evidence presented that plantiff (Quixtar) is in the business of providing motivational seminars and products”. We’ve been saying that for years!! I AM FIRED UP!! Q is not!!
November 9th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
Tex # 650:
Facts - It isn’t TEAM who is against the publication of their profit sharing plan, it’s Quixtar who’s against it.
If Quixtar doesn’t allow the various organizations to share how they share tool profits, then they can blame the “tool scam” for all their problems instead of fixing their own business plan.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Q/A didn’t win in Mich. Anyone heard about Nevada yet?
http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/michigan/index.ssf?/base/business-13/119464374254500.xml&storylist=newsmichigan
November 9th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
C’mon Q!!!!! Make up something else and sue us for it!
November 9th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
tex
5% Is a correct figure because everyone else is just renting (leasing)them for a few years because it is the only way they can afford too drive them.
Name 5 people you know outside of the business who can actually afford to buy a high priced car out right, Bet you can’t!!!!
November 9th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
Thunderdunce #843,
All the judge said was Q didn’t have enough evidence, which won’t be a problem in arbitration. You Orrinites are high on TEAMtosterone, this is a very minor win. I can tell Bob “Ufer” was a favorite of yours, it’s spelled Uecker. Apparently, he’s still saying it, as an announcer for the Milwaukee Brewers.
The issue also includes whether Orrin and Co. are enticing folks to join another “networking” organization. This will also be easier to prove in arbitration. I’m happy you’re becoming overconfident and don’t want to understand the difference between a court and an arbitration process.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:17 pm
bogdonovich #844,
Then post it now.
Also, Quixtar has told me they are NOT against disclosing the tool profits. However, if you don’t disclose them, you can’t display the lifestyle the tool scam produces, and the lying cowardly “kingpins” have failed at that miserably over the years.
You are telling half the truth, which is a whole lie.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Utah #845,
The Nevada case may take a while.
November 9th, 2007 at 10:29 pm
Tex,
I say you are getting me confused with someone else. I never said anything about A/Q selling around the IBOs. I don’t know, or care, whether they are or not. I’m no longer an IBO, so what difference would that make to me? —- That was an example. I’m not going to go back and research everyone’s posts before I use an example to illustrate a point. You have said enough other bonehead things on this blog about other issues, THAT is for sure.(Maybe, but what exactly was the point you were trying to illustrate when you put someone else’s words in my mouth? I said you speculate as if it is fact, and I believe you were trying to say I do the same thing. Except, you used someone else’s words as an example. That doesn’t really work, does it?)
It is in fact you that likes to treat your assumptions and speculations as though they are fact. Like when you speculated that Orrin was getting beat up on the stand in the contempt hearing. You nailed that one, huh? Lets just wait and see where the chips fall, instead of pretending we have a crystal ball. Hey look…I’m a poet and didn’t even know it. —- I’ll comment as I want to, thank you very much. I still believe Orrin was getting beat up on the stand, it just wasn’t enough to cancel the KY function. He won’t have a protected environment in arbitration, as the rules of evidence and conduct are much more relaxed.(Have you read the full opinion recently issued by Judge Sullivan? For a guy that got “beat up” on the stand, Orrin came out of that hearing pretty well. And, I’ve agreed with you many times about the arbitration situation being different than a courtroom, but you are still making a lot of assumptions about what will happen there.)
November 10th, 2007 at 1:58 am
http://forums.freetheibo.info/download/file.php?id=22&sid=e1ad546a07ad3a5eef5466bcdf233e5c
I particulaly liked how the judge said we left Q after reading the “just go team” article on this site. Seems he knows what’s going on better than Q!!!
Q, get a hint. You lost in your own hometown. Please just end it. You asked us, no, told us to leave. We did. End it now and actually let us leave. We are not taking your stapler. Feel free to email me all you want. I’ll update you on the email. michdet72@yahoo.com
Yes, I know I am going to get a million hate mails for this, but at least I can reply to them one at a time. Besides, I am sick as a dog right now and have plenty of time to hack away on my laptop. Bring on the emails. Lets end this now.
November 10th, 2007 at 2:17 am
Jerad #846,
Thank your lucky stars, you can’t be sued for being stupid.
ben #847,
There are plenty of people I know at our church that drive luxury cars, and none of them are IBO’s, as far as I know.
whatever #851,
I’m not going to wrap myself around the axel trying to debate minor points with you. Let’s clean up the tool scam, then we can debate this minutiae.
Have you read the full opinion recently issued by Judge Sullivan? —- Yes I did, and the Orrinites should not feel smug at all, especially if their last names are Stroh or Libby.
For a guy that got “beat up” on the stand, Orrin came out of that hearing pretty well. —- The judge left the door wide open that Orrin put on an act. Since he lies through his teeth every time he showed the plan, it’s no surprise to me he could pull the wool over the judge’s eyes. He will fare much worse in arbitration, as there will be much more time available and the rules of evidence are not as high.
And, I’ve agreed with you many times about the arbitration situation being different than a courtroom, but you are still making a lot of assumptions about what will happen there. —- I’m not making any assumptions, I am giving my “two cents”.
November 10th, 2007 at 2:22 am
#849 Tex
said, “Quixtar said they are not against disclosing tool profits.”
Are you saying that they are not against an IBO telling you what they personally make in BSM sales
or
Are you saying that they are not against showing/sharing/explaining a tool compensation plan (which implies promises of future income)?
November 10th, 2007 at 3:41 am
Tex
Reading a few of your latest post especially # 842 is showing the truth of what I have been saying regarding your involvement in this. It is very clear that you are going “loose cannon” since Quixtar lost their lawsuit against TEAM yesterday. When you start falsely accusing other posters of things and you get called on it you indicate that they should be considered guilty of it because “You have said enough other bonehead things on this blog about other issues, THAT is for sure.” I am wondering what is going to happen the next time TEAM wins, let’s see - hmmmm Will you be accusing whatever or me or which other poster of being the shooter on the knoll in Dallas??? Maybe one of us was a hidden co-conspirator in the shooting of Abraham Lincoln??? No, it can’t be that, WAIT I’VE GOT IT!!! Everyone that knows the truth instead of believeing the fertilizer that you try to spread around must have caused the Black Plague Outbreak. That brings an interesting point up, was Typhoid Mary a member of TEAM as well???
TEX, all you are doing is showing everyone that anything that you say is worthless and that we all feel that we cannot trust anything that you say. I would give an admonition to you about the old saying that goes: It is better to keep your mouth shut and let someone think that you are a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it. Tex, you have opened your mouth. It is sounding like Quixtar has begun to realize that you are not doing the job that they are paying you to do and probably are cutting your money flow off.
November 10th, 2007 at 3:46 am
Tex #849
“Quixtar has told me they are NOT against disclosing the tool profits.”
So is Quixtar giving you hourly updates or are they getting your advice on how to run their elimination of people’s freedoms and the destruction and snubbing of the “American Way”?
November 10th, 2007 at 8:41 am
john jay #852,
You need to read the judge’s decision again, it is not as one sided as you think.
You are free to leave, just let your 6 months go by and do whatever you want, just don’t approach known IBO’s for at least 2 years from the time you resigned. Orrin and the others who started the lawsuit will join you, perhaps sometime later than the standard 6 months, as determined in arbitration.
I’m not going to feed your TEAMtosterone filled ego and e-mail you, you obviously have little to add to this discussion.
November 10th, 2007 at 9:05 am
Bridgett #854,
Are you saying that they are not against an IBO telling you what they personally make in BSM sales —- We never discussed this point specifically. I will try to get an answer on this next week, although it may be difficult with the various litigation going on.
Are you saying that they are not against showing/sharing/explaining a tool compensation plan (which implies promises of future income)? —- Same as above. I am aware the critics use this as the reason why they can’t share the tool scam income, but isn’t showing them the A/Q marketing plan the same thing? If you develop Diamond volume and have average Diamond profit, you imply promises of future income, right?
You brought up two very good questions, and the March 2002 letter that Andy Andrews waved around at the (last?) major TIF function (which can be found on youtube) implies Quixtar did have an issue with both of your questions, although a lot has changed since 2002 as well, especially the level of tool profits becoming much better known. Even the court decision yesterday referred to only 1% of TEAM IBO’s making a tool income, which concerned the judge, especially since the money we are talking about is $1-10 million per IBO getting the tool scam money.
Quixtar would be wise to stop the apparent splitting of hairs on this issue and simply put out their policy on the tool scam issue, including simple answers to your straightforward and simple questions. The tool scam has again been demonstrated to be THE major source of upline profits AND a major source of downline losses. It’s already too late to do this for the UK (already going to court), and will be too late in the U.S. if they don’t act soon.
November 10th, 2007 at 9:21 am
Posted here by CC
“We filed suit because the single legal case we brought (and won) in this matter listed Orrin Woodward as a defendant.”
Um ok… Here is the Judge`s ruling…lets see if you can refute the facts now.
http://forums.freetheibo.info/download/file.php?id=22&sid=e1ad546a07ad3a5eef5466bcdf233e5c
November 10th, 2007 at 9:26 am
Rich #855,
Reading a few of your latest post especially #842 is showing the truth of what I have been saying regarding your involvement in this. —- Really? I can’t wait until you see the end of this message, Mr. Knowitall.
It is very clear that you are going “loose cannon” since Quixtar lost their lawsuit against TEAM yesterday. —- If you think that was a loss, you need to read it again, this time with your TEAMtosterone glasses off.
When you start falsely accusing other posters of things and you get called on it you indicate that they should be considered guilty of it because “You have said enough other bonehead things on this blog about other issues, THAT is for sure.” —- I used an EXAMPLE, and am not going to go back and research every bonehead comment made by every Orrinite/TEAMtosterone poster before I comment. Get lost.
I am wondering what is going to happen the next time TEAM wins, let’s see - hmmmm Will you be accusing whatever or me or which other poster of being the shooter on the knoll in Dallas??? —- No, I already know who that was.
Maybe one of us was a hidden co-conspirator in the shooting of Abraham Lincoln??? —- If true, you would be VERY old, but in the TEAMtosterone world, this is a reasonable position.
No, it can’t be that, WAIT I’VE GOT IT!!! —- Finally, some sanity.
Everyone that knows the truth instead of believeing the fertilizer that you try to spread around must have caused the Black Plague Outbreak. —- Uh oh, that didn’t last very long, here we go again. Just for your information, I am not 1000 years old and computers didn’t exist when the Black Plague Outbreak occurred in the Middle Ages. You must be chugging that TEAMtosterone syrup again. That is actually TEAM’s real product, heavy dosses of massive ego, which pay 1% of them each between $1 and $10 million annually. I would be pretty “fired up” if I scammed people like that as well.
That brings an interesting point up, was Typhoid Mary a member of TEAM as well??? —- Following you “logic” above, probably.
TEX, all you are doing is showing everyone that anything that you say is worthless and that we all feel that we cannot trust anything that you say. —- I put forth facts, and you try to weasel your way into finding some small opening, some small crack, and don’t realize the main issue is the tool scam, as the judge described as profoundly puzzling to him, but dismissed it because it wasn’t the specific topic of the court case. The judge got so close to figuring out why Quixtar brought the case for the KY function in the first place, but even the Quixtar lawyers don’t seem to understand the significance of the tool scam and the effects on the dynamics of the entire business, so even they didn’t explain themselves very well. Sometimes I feel like the only one who sees the 4,000 pound pink elephant in the living room, until someone like GirlPower and Bridgett come along, and restore my faith in the clear facts.
I would give an admonition to you about the old saying that goes: It is better to keep your mouth shut and let someone think that you are a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it. —- I couldn’t care less what you and the rest of the Orrinites think of me, I am putting forward the facts.
Tex, you have opened your mouth. It is sounding like Quixtar has begun to realize that you are not doing the job that they are paying you to do and probably are cutting your money flow off. —- You’re right, they just cut me off to zero. Oh wait! It’s ALWAYS been zero, so how do I know they “cut me off”? You would do well to take your own advice about opening your mouth.
November 10th, 2007 at 9:27 am
Rich #856,
So is Quixtar giving you hourly updates or are they getting your advice on how to run their elimination of people’s freedoms and the destruction and snubbing of the “American Way”? —- Both.
November 10th, 2007 at 9:43 am
Tex #848
“All the judge said was Q didn’t have enough evidence, which won’t be a problem in arbitration. You Orrinites are high on TEAMtosterone, this is a very minor win. I can tell Bob “Ufer” was a favorite of yours, it’s spelled Uecker. Apparently, he’s still saying it, as an announcer for the Milwaukee Brewers.
The issue also includes whether Orrin and Co. are enticing folks to join another “networking” organization. This will also be easier to prove in arbitration. I’m happy you’re becoming overconfident and don’t want to understand the difference between a court and an arbitration process.”
I would love to know exactly how these arbitrations are run. From the statement YOU just made,they don`t neccessarily need FACTS to win in arbitration.
November 10th, 2007 at 10:21 am
A wise man affiliated with TEAM once said…..
November 10th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
Tex #841
What makes you think they wouldn’t lie ? If it can’t be proven either way, who’s the wiser ? How would anyone EVER know whether a customer got assigned ?
If Orrin/Chris are SO-O-O-O capable of lying (which I absolutely DON’T believe, but you so forthrightly proclaim ) then what makes Q/A better ?
Let’s be fair. If you say they’re thieves, consider that maybe Q/A is too.
Looks like maybe Judge Sullivan,in the “narrow” case win he just gave Team, thought Orrin et al was telling the truth. Guess he’s a goofball like the rest of us, huh ?
November 10th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
Tex#853,
Blah blah cowardly blah blah tool scam blah blah
November 10th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
Tex #837
You stated that Orrin had been notified of his violations for the past 6 years without any evidence whatsoever. Now who’s blowing smoke? —- “See post #769 from ibofb. Looks like you’re blowing smoke.”
If you are basing many of your arguments simply from what some random blogger posts on this site I feel foolish for wasting my time debating with you. Instead of giving me “evidence” based simply on what some random blogger states, it would be nice to give actual links to affidavits/articles, etc. like I have done with you. At least give me that common courtesy, otherwise your arguments are nothing but “smoke” to me. You should’ve known that.
One more time, name calling just shows that you don’t have any logical arguments. I don’t know if you knew this, but name calling does not support your position at all. —- “And being stupid means you can’t follow a logical discussion at all. You have left many questions I have asked you unanswered. Such as, isn’t it logical if Quixtar was lying about the previous 6 years of rule violations on their termination letter, Orrin would have pushed back immediately, if not sooner?”
Orrin claims that he has never been notified of any rules violations. Of course, he can’t prove that because there’s no statement from Quixtar that says, “No, we’ve never notified Orrin of any rules violations.” And likewise, there’s no evidence whatsoever (which nobody has been able to prove me wrong yet) that Quixtar actually did notify him. Because of this, it simply becomes a “he said, she said” situation which there is no point in arguing about. Quixtar has the burden of proof on this issue and they haven’t delivered. Do you know what “burden of proof” means? I didn’t bother answering this question earlier because if you think logically, it should’ve been obvious.
ibofb #769
Can I get a reference please?
November 10th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Tex 853
I didn’t say drive I said own outright!!!
November 10th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
Tex #838
Bob UFER was a football announcer for the University of Michigan. Gee, oh my gosh!! Could you actually be WRONG?! How are going to get out of this mister perfect? When you don’t know what your talking about you should just shut your trapper.
November 10th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Tex #848
By the way, I do know the difference between arbitration and court since I am involved with both processes with my other business (I am the plantiff in both). The burden of proof is much less in arbitration, but, since we all know that neither Orrin nor Chris have enticed anybody to join another business, the outcome will be the same. And truss me, this is what will happen. But after that “whuppin” I’m sure Q will find something else to sue us over, maybe global warming?
November 10th, 2007 at 6:49 pm
Jerad Smith said to Tex#853:
Blah blah cowardly blah blah tool scam blah blah
_______________________________________________
Jerad, I think that if you take the time to read Tex’s posts you would see a lot more than you give him credit for.
Like “yada, yada, yada Kingpins, yada, yada, yada lying yada, yada, yada.”
November 10th, 2007 at 9:58 pm
marc #866 - sorry, don’t recall the exact one, may not have been an affidavit, perhaps was just one of the exhibits, eg letter from Quixtar, nevertheless it was submitted by Team and not disputed in the case.
November 10th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
Dreamweaver #859,
That was a very minor “victory” for TEAM. Read it again, and take off your TEAMtosterone glasses this time. There are plenty of references to shaky times ahead for TEAM. The challenge for Quixtar was a higher level of proof was required, not that they weren’t correct. Arbitration will be much friendlier to their side of things, as the bar is much lower than in a court.
November 10th, 2007 at 11:03 pm
Dreamweaver #862,
I would love to know exactly how these arbitrations are run. From the statement YOU just made,they don`t neccessarily need FACTS to win in arbitration. —- That’s not what I said. Arbitration processes still rely on facts, but the rules regarding what evidence is allowed are much more liberal and less able to be restricted by tricky lawyers compared to a normal courtroom. This is what will get Orrin and Co. in BIG trouble.
November 10th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
What a mess.
TEAM supporters seem to believe that their organization was somehow unique, or special. You ARE unique AND special, just like everyone else. You were simply led to believe you were by far the best. So were we. So are the IBOs in other organizations. TEAM bloggers consistently discredit current & former IBOs from other organizations, I suspect because they don’t think anyone could possibly understand where they’re coming from or how really, really truly very special TEAM was/is. It doesn’t matter what organization one is from. What matters is what is understood about ALL of the organizations. They are more alike than different. All of them. This is a world-wide business and TEAM was only a small part of the whole. Several organizations became affiliated with TEAM in the last few years. No need to puff out your chests about that. Too bad none including TEAM had long term vision.
During the time I was an active IBO, I stayed on the bsm/sm system the entire time. My personal IBO experience was positive for the most part but I saw firsthand and read about how many of the other IBOs in my upline/downline and crossline were treated by the self-professed leaders. THAT’s what I took issue with. Know why I wasn’t personally treated badly? Because I stayed on system!
There was a good reason why the tools were “invented” in the first place. The same reason applies today. IBOs need tools, not scams. They weren’t a scam initially. They became a scam when the kingpins realized there was a huge profit to be made on them. For years and years they lied about these obscene profits. And got away with it. It was only after it became a huge issue on the internet that TEAM and others decided they would be “fair” and “open” with it. The wealthier the kingpins became, the greedier and more arrogant they became but promoted themselves as good business people and confident leaders. And devout Christians too boot. Reminds me of the quote “Going to church does not make you anymore a Christian than going to the garage makes you a car”… Dr. Laurence J. Peter. Why is edification taught? “Edify me (feed my ego, promote my system), promote me to your group, and in return I will help you believe you are an unstoppable hero. Don’t edify me or support my system and in return I will help you believe you are not worthy of anyone’s help in this organization.” That’s what they are really saying and doing and teaching their emeralds, sapphires, platinums to say and do. To your face they tell you the support system is voluntary, just don’t participate & find out how “voluntary” it is in reality. It is no different in TEAM. For heaven’s sake, read Melissa Seeback’s testimony. The Seebacks weren’t and aren’t the only ones, believe me. She represents the experience of way too many IBOs in every organization on this planet. It’s a “sledge hammer” approach and it results in confusing and alienating these & many other IBOs. Add the inflated tools to this scenario. What on earth is win-win about all that? The kingpins are liars and cowards because what they say to your face and what they do behind your back are two different things. Alongside the positive leadership principles, they teach the sledge hammer approach. They have no trouble using this approach until it is used on them. THAT’s when they become insulted and “gnash their teeth”.
As an IBO, you have to realize that you are a representative of Quixtar because that’s who you sign a legal contract with. Quixtar calls the shots. If you don’t like that, don’t sign the contract. Nowhere on the application form does it state it is “only” your supplier and your real business is with your upline leadership organization. Your upline organization has an obligation to assist you in meeting Quixtar’s expectations. It is YOUR responsibility to read the RoCs every few months so that your knowledge of them is current. It’s a weak, very weak argument to righteously shout, “They added stuff to the rules and didn’t tell us.” Your upline has a responsibility to keep you informed. True leaders do that. Quixtar has a responsibility to keep your upline leaders informed when changes are introduced. That’s good business practice.
Amway/Alticor/Quixtar has not enforced their rules strongly enough all over the world. The shenanigans have been out of hand for far too many years. I hope they continue to weed out the junk in all the IBO organizations. They needed and need to strengthen the foundation of the business and to make the prices retailable. To cure illnesses, one has to find the root causes. Fix the root causes and the rest of the “noise” goes away. I hope it’s not too late for Quixtar/Amway.
IBOs need to keep the main thing, the main thing. You are in all of this together, current IBOs who are representatives of the same company. Forget about whether your line of affiliation is better than another. Stop assuming that because you have reached certain levels in this business, you have somehow been given the intelligence tablets along with your pin. Listen to all of your downline IBOs and learn from them. Remember, IBOs at all levels because of their stupid shenanigans have greatly contributed to the negative reputation Amway & Quixtar have.
IMO, Judge Bush hit the nail on the head when he expressed his disbelief at both sides. I just wish all these lawsuit TEAM issues are soon brought together before the arbitration hearing and it gets settled once and for all.
I sincerely hope it’s not too late in the UK.
November 10th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
dannie #864,
I suggest you engage your brain. What would happen if a customer who was bypassing Quixtar wanted to become an IBO or wanted to make contact with an IBO so they could pay IBO prices? This would be a major disaster for A/Q. Keep dreaming though, it’s all you have.
When is the last time Orrin bragged about making $10 million/year off the tool scam? There’s the big tool scam lie, right out in the open for you.
You need to read Judge Sullivan’s decision again, he left the door wide open for Orrin being a lying cowardly “kingpin”, which will be easily proven in arbitration. He’s not a goofball like the rest of you, you’re in a league of your own.
November 10th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Jerad #865,
Yawn.
marc #866,
I’m not going to look up a reference for every single fact I post here. A multi-billion dollar a year corporation lays out a detailed story of repeated rules violations over 6 years, gets no pushback from Orrin or Chris, and WE have to prove the point? I suggest YOU do some research and prove the termination letter right or wrong.
November 11th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
tex says,
I’m not going to feed your TEAMtosterone filled ego and e-mail you, you obviously have little to add to this discussion.
This coming from someone who can’t stop insulting anyone for more than five minutes and calls everyone dumb or some form thereof. Who has the ego? And if you think it is ego that wants to solve a problem, then maybe you are the problem. Maybe I am a little ego filled, thinking that Q and all associated want to solve problems, seeing how all they do is ignore the present problems and then go out and cause more. But I think attempting to solve problems versus insulting anyone who thinks even slightly differently than me is smart. Obviously tex thinks differently. As does Q. For your info, tex, we are sitting out the six months. We left because Q told us to, just like the judge said. The judge said all the witnesses were reliable, which must mean, according to you, liars. Do you speak english, or do you just love to change definitions of everything to suit your purpose? You have so much in common with my four year old. Throws a fit if someone disagrees, then call them a liar, then speak “opposite day” every chance you get, then blame everyone else for your problems, then blame everyone who is actually successful for causing the problems, then resort to lying about others and call it “fact finding” (my daughter calls it truth looking). I think I will just ignore you and speak to my little girl, at least she shows signs of being teachable. And she is probably lots cuter than you. Eww, just got a visual of tex sucking his thumb and snuggling with the dog.
November 11th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
p.s.
tex, where in the world did I ask YOU to email me? Remember, I am trying to ignore you, therefore I don’t want your attention, emails, posts, or even acknowledgement of your existence. That post, like most of my posts, was not for you, but with your “TEAMtosterone filled ego”, you probably thought the only person I was writing to was you. I was referring to everyone else, you know, the people who can actually think, not just mouth off. Maybe you should change your name to BBL (blog because lonely), or Mr. Pots (as in pot calling the kettle…), or maybe you should find a four year old girl somewhere and adopt her name, all three are fitting. Tex…bad name for you. Everyone in texas should be steaming mad about you ruining the name of that great state.
November 11th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
And for those of you who think your distributorship is safe, that Q won’t fire you, that Team is going through these problems because of what we did, that Q really is trying to help you, go to the website http://www.mlive.com/grandrapids/stories/index.ssf?/base/business-5/119445390767640.xml&coll=6
and read what they say. Specifically, “The products are sold through the Web site simplynutrilite.com without the need for a distributor.” Hmmm…you mean maybe the people from Team may have been right all this time?
November 12th, 2007 at 2:56 am
Parrotex,
Arbitration? Over what? There is nothing to arbitrate. Remember what was said “TEAM, just go”.
It seems like they did. What was actually was hoped for was Team disappear, disband, and go away. The only reason to arbitrate is to get back into something that nobody wants to get back into.
If a person doesn’t want to go to arbitration they don’t have to. All they have to do is say Goodbye and please don’t contact me we no longer have a relationship. That is called Freedom.
November 12th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Tex: You are skirting the issue just like Q. You don’t need a link to the FTC, it is in the 1979 ruling on Amway… You’re showing your IQ. Second, the the only tool scam out there is the fact that Amway didn’t want to take time to train their people so the Diamonds did it and began to make money… why didn’t they stop the “tool money” in the 1970’s? Amway knew then… they let it go… IQ… And not being at Achievers has EVERYthing to do with your opinions. You are not qualified to have an opinion. You are probable blogging on some medical site too for all we know or a political site… The fact is you do not know very much about the business you defend… Point On. You write to stir the negative… It’s working, but the facts are what they are. 1. You don’t have a clue because you have not ever had much of a business. 2. Amway/Quixtar are in violation of the FTC ruling and the DTI in the UK. Trial later this month. 3. You are under the delusion that you can fix a tool skam problem that doesn’t exist unless you are in Amway/Quixtar. Amway doesn’t train their people, I know this I have been to Achievers… you don’t know this because you have never had much of a business. You not only have an IQ problem you don’t make money at Amway/Quixtar. Low income low IQ, they go together.
November 12th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
Number 765. Look at the the 1979 Ruling on Amway. And look at the Omitrition FTC Ruling. The 1979 Ruling is Specific to Amway… go look.
November 12th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Tex#876,
Blah blah blah minor victory for TEAM yada yada yada lying cowardly kingpin blah blah blah $10 million/year off the tool scam blah blah blah
Note: Thanks to MM for pointing out vital parts of Tex’s posts!
November 12th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Tex #876
I’m astounded. I can’t believe you actually are okay with arguing a point without actually having the facts. It’s not worth spending time debating with you if you believe you can make whatever argument you feel like without supporting your case with facts. What a waste of time this was. I actually had some respect for your opinions (which is why I even bothered debating with you) until now.
November 12th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
#874 MightyPeace
That was awesome! You made a lot of valid points and it is very much appreciated. The way Tex did before all the mud slinging started, though some TEAMmates are guilty of slinging too.
I dont’ believe that Orrin and TEAM wanted to hurt the IBO’s. This all started with two different visions of where Quixtar should have been able to take people. I still believe that we are going to be successful. I believe we are going to a million people in TEAM and beyond.
This has been a hard few months for both sides. I hope that it will simmer down now that most of the court cases are done. I side with time doing the work for us now. Time will prove who was right about all this and I am setting my heart on TEAM.
To my TEAMmates, don’t give Tex any more ammunition. He has his beliefs as strongly as we do about TEAM. It doesn’t matter his affiliation or pin level, it doesn’t mater.
To Tex, I understand emotions are high and I admire your dedication. However, that does not give you the right to insult anyone. My two young children understand this. Your understanding of the business is extraordinary, even if it is even a little biased. You could do so much more good by maintaining your professionalism. Blog trollers, flamers, and offline critics will happen, it is how we react that sets us apart in our character. Thats what I learned in my training program and Dale Carnegie.
To MediaBlog Admin, I sure hope that the author of “Just Go TEAM” didn’t lose their job for losing the Michigan case on Friday. For the record, I was never asked to leave Quixtar with TEAM. I followed the blogs, good and bad, and strived to remain unbiased. I received a call from my upline stating that I was free to do what I wished with MY business and to let me know that he was resigning. My wife and I thought about it, talked about it, then sent in our resume the next day.
Good Luck to all. Happy Holidays.
November 12th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
MightyPeace
What is you experiance of Team? Were you actually a part of that system or do you only know what you’ve read and heard from other people? Much of what you say reflects a very poor understanding of how Team worked. That’s why I am asking.
November 12th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
ben #867,
Okay, OWN them. There are plenty of people I know at our church that OWN luxury cars, and none of them are IBO’s, as far as I know. Did you want me to ask them if they were still making payments on the cars or not?
From what I read from other bloggers, the upline doesn’t own as much as they lead you to believe.
Thunderdunce #868,
I sit corrected, and you said FOOTBALL announcer, which should have been another clue for me.
He sounds like he was quite a guy in Michigan, but he died even prior to Rich DeVos publicly identifying the tool scam, which was a LONG time ago.
Did you hear the “thump” from Bob’s grave when he rolled over after Appalachian State beat Michigan this year? It was the first time a Division I-AA team had ever upset a ranked Division I school, let along the #5 ranking Michigan had at the time. You mean THAT Michigan, right? Just want to get my facts right this time.
My contract with Quixtar says I must make one mistake every year, just so people don’t perceive me as being perfect. So there, I got one in before the end of the calendar year, with a month and a half or so to spare. Thanks.
November 12th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
Thunderdunce #869,
Orrin and Co. may not get the whuppin’ over the enticement