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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
October 24th, 2007 @ 8:45 pm ET…
Why we fight, part 1
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
After being on the defensive for 20 straight legal attacks, we filed suit yesterday against the corporation that owns TEAM.
We filed suit because the single legal case we brought (and won) in this matter listed Orrin Woodward as a defendant—but Woodward then claimed to have magically disappeared as the manager of TEAM before the case was heard. (A legal trick like that is like pretending Rich and Jay have nothing to do with our company—but never mind. We’ll straighten it out.)
We filed suit because TEAM has had multiple chances to play by the rules in this dispute, but have gambled that they do not have to play by them. They have interfered with non-compete agreements. They have interfered with non-solicitation agreements. They refuse to arbitrate.
But most of all, we are filing suit because TEAM has taken proprietary business information from Quixtar that IBOs could be using right now to build Quixtar businesses.
If you leave your place of work today, you would leave behind your tools and information so that those who remain can carry on the business. You can’t help yourself to your computer, the stapler, the coffeemaker—or the company’s customer list.
That is ethically and morally wrong. It is also legally wrong. And that’s why we filed suit.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
November 5th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
Oh yea the average seminar for plumbers is $500 or more, not to mention Union dues!! and if you don’t attend or pay your dues, your license is revoked!!
Go figure it costs money to be in business!! No tools no association no business, maybe we should just carry buckets, it would be cheaper..
Oh wait I hate outhouses.
November 5th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
Tex said: “Just thought I might offer my 2 cents of opinion…”
If you would keep it to ONLY TWO CENTS, people might listen to you.
November 5th, 2007 at 11:24 pm
Tex #690 and 691
Perfect example of Quixtar spin…
You are definatly sticking in the right business.
Wish you well
November 5th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Sooner Ibo # 687
Hmmmmm,never said I hadn`t met them,just that I don`t know them personally
As for what I said,I stand by it.
The funny thing is… Obviously Quixtar expected us all to fall in line like good little sheep when they terminated Orrin and Chris, but unlike all the other diamonds they terminated in the past, our system actually teaches people something. And Orrin and Chris`s integrity and honor holds and will continue to hold,something you Quixites don`t understand or can accept.
Take away their leaders…it worked in the past! Hmmm they have lost a lot of business haven`t they? I heard something to the tune of 125 milion by the end of the year and they are planning on giving early retirement along with some lay offs. I truely am sorry if that is true… I wouldn`t wish it on anyone. Maybe they should have listened to the IBOA and dropped prices/not switched the name?
November 5th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
mark # 672
“I don’t know if you realize this but there was a major convention in KY a couple weekends ago with only 20,000 people expected to show up. But instead, 38,000 people showed and packed the overflow arena so it is still growing even without an “opportunity” in existence.”
Hmmm,must be some Quixites showed up who aren`t as blind as some who blog on here.
Keep fighting Quixtar, we don`t mind… In fact, it seems it is good for business… Team business anyway!
November 6th, 2007 at 12:02 am
One more thing….
Quixtar…YOUR customer lists?
I never recieved mine…I actually put people I knew in the business. Wish I had known you guys issue lists to new IBO`s! Would have saved me a lot of time I am sure!
November 6th, 2007 at 12:29 am
Hey parrotex,
I move to another blog and see you again. Jezz you have no life. By the way from what I have read to many Team supporters have said the Team tools have made a difference in their lives. Ergo not a scam but something of value. Opppss, I forgot you speak another language. (Translation) Blah, Blah, blah, blah blah, blau, balh, blah, blah blah, blu, blah, blah, blah blah, blah, blah, blah,blah blah, blahblahblah.
November 6th, 2007 at 1:15 am
Tex 685
“I have read on various blogs many other LOS/LOA’s have a “fair” pay plan”. - In other words you don’t know.
“Many of the numbers are online, some of them in court documents, others from TEAMtosterone Orrinites”. - in other words you don’t know.
“If it [the system profit] is so open, isn’t it reasonable I would have heard it at one of these [opens/seminar]”?
No it’s not.
[In response to me saying that Team was open about system profit and it was Quixtar that wanted it to be kept from IBO’s] “So they didn’t comply with another Quixtar request? Why have both Ron Simmons and Chuck Goetschel state TEAM didn’t discuss tool profits at Quixtar’s request? Why has nobody stated the TEAM tool contract in the court documents were not in force? You can’t have it both ways”. - The specific numbers were not shared at any event I attended. What was said is that the profit coming from the system was shared equitably with the IBO’s that created it.
Girlpower 686
In 629 rico asked “Girl Power…Where do people get off calling people “Amish” and using it as put down”?
And you respond with. . .
“Where do I get off? Where does team get off calling Q a pyramid”?
What does the CA lawsuit have to do with you calling people Amish? And if you don’t have serious concerns about the way Quixtar is running their business you need to get your head out of the sand.
SoonerIBO 687
“Your “boy” Orrin and pals are the ones who filed the idiotic, baseless “illegal pyramid” lawsuit and you expected Quixtar to just sit around doing nothing”? - First the lawsuit is far from baseless, look at the supporting facts . Second, while I do not expect Quixtar to just sit around and do nothing, I do expect them to act professionally.
November 6th, 2007 at 1:42 am
Girl Power #686:
I can’t find the word “prolly” in my Websters. What is it?
November 6th, 2007 at 1:44 am
Tex #684
I don’t know if you realize this but there was a major convention in KY a couple weekends ago with only 20,000 people expected to show up. —- “Really, I never saw that reference. Can you provide a link, or are you just blowing smoke again?”
Here’s a link to a portion of the article from the Grand Rapids Press:
http://freetheibo.com/News/48-Amway%20Quixtar%20v%20Business%20Owners%20Lswsuits.html
And if you’re more of an audio/visual person, here’s a video from the channel 8 news:
http://freetheibo.com/News-Video/9-News-Video/45-Partial-victory-for-former-Quixtar-distributors.html
But instead, 38,000 people showed and packed the overflow arena so it is still growing even without an “opportunity” in existence. I can bet my life savings (which isn’t much) that over 90% of those people in attendance will get involved in their new business when it starts. So if you consider that “alone” and “starting all over” then I guess we just have different definitions of that. I, for one, would be just fine with starting a business with 35,000 loyal people already in place. —- “A lot of people like to play the lottery and watch NASCAR for the crashes, too.”
And yet another apples and oranges comparison. Car crashes have nothing to do with the future of spectators financial lives. Not too many people would spend that kind of time and money and travel across the states if they didn’t already see the benefits of being a part of TEAM. But of course, I don’t expect you to understand this.
Can you give me any evidence of these “violation corrections for the past 6 years?” —- “They were listed in his termination letter. He hasn’t pushed back one bit since.”
Uhhh… that’s exactly my point. AmQuix didn’t bring up any complaints to Orrin and Co. UNTIL that letter. Show me evidence of AmQuix notifying Orrin and Co. of their violations BEFORE the termination papers. I think you would agree that if you were working at some job and had countless accolades from doing great work and then all of a sudden they fired you without ANY PRIOR WARNING of violations that you may or may not have committed. Very sketchy indeed. It’s clear to me that they came up with that excuse as a matter of convenience to cover their own rear. The timing says it all. Or did you actually have evidence of prior notifications of rules violations? I have read through hundreds of court documents, affidavits, transcripts and I have found absolutely no evidence for it. Show me what you got.
Many IBO’s were bled from product overpricing for every “success story” as well. And the worst part of that is that there is no one to blame for that except for AmQuix itself! —- “I blame the upline for not “minding the store”, because they were making so much on their tool scams, they didn’t care about product pricing.”
So are you telling me that AmQuix has absolutely no responsibility for product pricing? That’s undoubtedly one of the most outrageous and fanatical statements you have made yet. So then why deal with AmQuix at all if it’s all the IBO’s fault? What you’re telling me is that it would be better to start your own MLM company the way you think it should be run and then teach your downline the same thing.
“The skinny little $12 book” was a tool that helped many people become financially free. So for many, it is priceless and the measly $12 is a joke. If a mere $12 tool is going to hang you up and crush your dreams of financial freedom, then you might as well quit now. —- “It isn’t a single book that is pushed, it is at least one book every month and hundreds of CD’s, and all the functions, all of which create the MA$$IVE tool scam profits.”
…profits that go into MY pocket and into my downline’s pocket, JUST LIKE WITH QUIXTAR products!!!
That is the beauty of TEAM. This kind of growth is probably unheard of to you because you are not aware of how powerful TEAM approach depth really is. That is why TEAM was undoubtedly the fastest growing organization out there, hence Orrin and Laurie’s recognition. —- “You ignored the stacked structure and resulting small profit, but then you’re an Orrinite high on TEAMtosterone.”
What do you mean I ignored the stacking structure? TEAM approach depth IS THE “STACKING STRUCTURE.” The stacking structure or TEAM approach depth or whatever you want to call it is THE MAIN REASON why TEAM builds faster than anybody else and produces faster profits than anybody else. And because of this, TEAM was simply gaining too much power in the business which freaked AmQuix out and decided to terminate Orrin and Co. as a knee-jerk reaction. AmQuix had a choice not to go into this lawsuit because Orrin and Co. gave them a choice. AmQuix made a bad choice.
Again, as long as IBO’s are independent, this will be a problem until the end of time. So you’re wasting your time, energy, breath, and you might as well save yourself from carpal tunnel syndrome. —- “There is a huge difference between being independent and a scam artist.”
The reason why I like debating with you on this topic is because we both like to argue our points based on logic that stems from the facts we have at hand. This whole “scam” discussion in this context is merely your opinion vs. mine and therefore is not worth even discussing this point with you unless you have some hard facts of illegal behavior which I have not seen yet. If it was that obvious that TEAM was running a scam, they would’ve been shut down by the government a long time ago, but yet they haven’t been. So unless you have some of those facts, you calling TEAM a “scam” holds no weight with me and is not worth discussing.
And actually, that makes sense AmQuix seems to be taking a lot more “independence” from ABO’s now aside from the whole tools issue. They’re making amendments to YOUR contracts with them, so you’re FORCED to accept those changes unless you want to lose your entire business, which essentially means that you’ve ultimately been downgraded from a “business owner” to an employee. So how does that feel? —- “It makes me feel great, but you obviously don’t know the difference between rules to protect IBO’s and a tool scam.”
See previous statement.
November 6th, 2007 at 2:04 am
Tex (683)
Bridgette (694)
The document is the WWDB Private Franchising Review instruction sheet tht tells the current IBO exactly waht they are supposed to tell the prospective IBO. Maybe you haven’t been around WWDB - I have. This is exactly what the prospective IBO is told.
Do you think that because in the upper corner it says 2000 that is the only year it can be used. My goodness, the only statistcs Quixtar gives today are still from 2001 (6 years old). This is what prospective IBOs are being told and it is simply not true. No new IBO can “expect” to earn $57,000 in their first year.
Tex you and I agree totally on the coward kingpins. The only difference we have (atleast as I see it) is that for some reason you continue to believe that QUixtar is innocent in this. I believe they have known for years and years that their loyal IBOs have been getting fleeced by the lieing kingpins. They have not done anything about it because it might cause them to lose some of their volume and money. The only reason they are even addressing it now is because of fear of regulatory action (ie as in UK, India, etc).
November 6th, 2007 at 2:15 am
Did you see that another Diamond left?? what does that make it 20-25 diamonds walked out the door. This is scandalous!! http://www.amquix.info/amway_harteis_resigns.html
November 6th, 2007 at 5:17 am
John (ref your posts in the late 580’s)
You are so right!
In the UK this is the whole issue with the DTI investigation. That not enough people make money because we’re like a really expensive shopping club where everyone self consumes and hardly anyone retails. This is a pyramid.
It has nothing to do with BSM. That is all Amway spin.
Here Amway’s hand has been forced by the DTI so now we have some great price cuts:
SA8 Liqid Detergent used to be (retail) £15.55 is now £7.00. Scrub Brite used to be £5.80 it’s now £1.35! There are loads like this.
If the DTI hadn’t been involved we would still be paying these extortionate prices and self consuming and making NO money.
Amway need to hold their hands up and take it on the chin.
November 6th, 2007 at 5:26 am
John #635 - yeah, that was a pretty funny typo wasn’t it :-). Again, inflation is not needed when addressing # of IBOs, which is what your claim was about. (1979 Sales)/(1979 sales per IBO)=1979 # of IBOs. (2006 sales)/(2006 sales per IBO)=2006 # of IBOs. There is no inflation adjustment needed. What’s more, what does the last 10 years sales have to do with it? The claim I was addressing was your claim about # of IBOs not changing in 30 years.
As for the other stuff, what’s to address? Some Diamonds do dumb stuff. Whoopeedoodah.
November 6th, 2007 at 10:37 am
ben #699,
1. After you buy those pipes, do you mark them up several times their original cost to your customers, as is done with the tools?
2. Do you tell your customers you can help them make money by delivering water, where in reality you make most of your money on the pipe mark-up?
3. Do you sell them the pipe at a high mark-up, until their plumbing business gets large enough that you can fill them in on this little secret? (Of course, by the time they find out about the pipe scam, they will have invested too much of their time, money, and effort, so you have essentially trapped them into your little pipe scam)
4. Do you give them a real choice to buy their pipe wherever they want, or are you their only practical source, because if they buy their pipe from another supplier, you won’t help them learn how to connect the pipe together?
5. Are you an honest “business partner” and “teammate”, or a liar and coward?
I think the latter. Your analogy is perfect. Perfectly inaccurate.
November 6th, 2007 at 10:40 am
TEX, you are fooling nobody except perhaps yourself, and the innocent victims who are stuck with their Amway or the highway upline. Your misdirected passion to sit day after day assaulting TEAM is puzzling. Though you claim to see both sides you clearly have an agenda to spew one-sided propaganda. Blogging has taken it’s toll on your attitude. You need a vacation and read and do something positive instead of your constant barrage of criticism.
Your arguments are empty, your tone and relentless personal attacks are very immature and unprofessional. Sounds quite similar to the image Quixtar/Amway legal has decided to portray. You sure you not on the legal team ?
November 6th, 2007 at 10:42 am
ben #700,
Do you pay to go to Opens for new plumbers every week? How about monthly plumber seminars? How about Major Plumber Functions 3-4 times/year? Do you buying several plumbing CD’s every week, sometimes many more? Do you buy plumbing books every month? How about plumber’s voice mail, so you can keep in touch with the other plumbers?
I don’t live in a union state, so the Union dues don’t apply.
Of course it costs money to be in business!! The question is whether you want to follow liars and cowards. I don’t. I would rather do my “business” in an outhouse than associate with those types of people.
November 6th, 2007 at 10:48 am
MichMan #701,
If I don’t give my two cents on a regular basis, the new readers wouldn’t even knew I existed, because old posts are quickly “buried” behind new ones. That is the nature of blogging, you either stay active and have influence, or you post occasionally and have very little influence.
Also, I copied that from a previous post, did you catch who said it first?
Dreamweaver #702,
Perfect example of TEAM spin…
You are definitely sticking in the right business.
Wish you well, as long as it isn’t another scam.
November 6th, 2007 at 10:56 am
Dreamweaver #703,
The funny thing is… Obviously Quixtar expected us all to fall in line like good little sheep when they terminated Orrin and Chris, but unlike all the other diamonds they terminated in the past, our system actually teaches people something. —- Yes, it teaches you to listen to liars and cowards. Many of the TIF IBO’s left with their “leaders” as well, but they have since failed, big time. Quixtar only expected you to follow the rules if you wanted to continue to be an IBO, something your “leaders” couldn’t do. Quixtar would rather you leave if you can’t do that, so do the rest of the remaining IBO’s.
And Orrin and Chris`s integrity and honor holds and will continue to hold,something you Quixites don`t understand or can accept. —- That’s a good one, putting O&C plus the words “integrity and honor” in the same sentence. It took real integrity and honor to file the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit.
Take away their leaders…it worked in the past! —- It didn’t work with TIF, but Quixtar did add a couple of rules that your “leaders” tripped all over on their way out.
Hmmm they have lost a lot of business haven`t they? I heard something to the tune of 125 milion by the end of the year and they are planning on giving early retirement along with some lay offs. I truely am sorry if that is true… I wouldn`t wish it on anyone. Maybe they should have listened to the IBOA and dropped prices/not switched the name? —- If true, we can blame this on Orrin and Co.’s “illegal pyramid” lawsuit. With the world-wide growth, and transformation activities, it appears there are plenty of opportunities for employees. Has Orrin considered becoming an A/Q janitor? He could clean up his own mess.
November 6th, 2007 at 10:58 am
Tex,
You don’t even get to the merits of the case if it belongs in arbitration in the first place, which would have minimized the negative publicity.(I agree, but then why do you spin it to sound like it was a loss on the merits?) The Orrinite “leaders” really screwed that one up, but then they were more interested in poaching IBO’s than anything else.(Which is it? Did they screw it up, or was it part of some grand plan to “poach” IBOs? Make up your mind.) Imagine how long it would have taken them to convince others to join them in their “new and improved” tool scam. Orrin and Co. did the equivalent of striking out prior to approaching home plate with their “illegal pyramid” lawsuit. What a joke.(You seem to forget that the “others” you are talking about didn’t need to be “convinced” of anything. They likely would have left Amway anyway, because unlike you they don’t see the TEAM system as a scam.)
I have always said I would have preferred a court case, which would have exposed the tool scam even more than it is right now. I also understand why Quixtar wants to keep it in arbitration(why is that?).
The point was who was getting crushed in the court system. The main lawsuit in CA was turned back to arbitration, as it didn’t belong in court to begin with.(Agreed, but that hardly constitutes “getting crushed” in the court system.) THAT case heard both sides, as did the one in MI where the court order was placed against Orrin and Chris, and is now the subject of the 30 bloggers. I understand why the judge ruled as he did in the KY function motion, because most of the tickets were purchased prior to August 9th, but I still disagree with his basis, because the meeting was clearly designed to entice IBO’s into Orrin’s next venture, even if it is not finalized yet. However, at this point I also wouldn’t be surprised if Orrin does an “Andy Andrews” and becomes a “success” speaker, leaving his flock far behind, wondering what happened.(Ahhh, this is the part where you offer your opinions and speculation as if they are fact. You just can’t help yourself. Lets all be thankful that the Judge made his ruling based on evidence and facts.)
I say back at ya. —- I say you’re clueless.(I say you’re a bitter blogger with a vendetta and a lot of rumor, hearsay, and speculation that you like to call “fact”)
November 6th, 2007 at 11:00 am
Dreamweaver #704,
It only seems good for business. Pride comes before the fall.
Tauraus #706,
I move to another blog and see you again. —- Which one?
Jezz you have no life. —- I guess that means you don’t either.
You read the few positive stories. How about all the financial disasters that came as a result of the tool scam? If the system is so good for people, why not lower the prices, so you can help even more people?
November 6th, 2007 at 11:11 am
AEM #707,
In other words you don’t know. —- In other words, I know as much as I do about TEAM, because the statements about how “fair” TEAM is are from the same source, dipstick.
“If it [the system profit] is so open, isn’t it reasonable I would have heard it at one of these [opens/seminar]”? No it’s not. —- Then it isn’t open, genius.
The specific numbers were not shared at any event I attended. What was said is that the profit coming from the system was shared equitably with the IBO’s that created it. —- You missed the key issue, which is HOW MUCH profit is made. It makes a HUGE difference if it is 10% or 1000% of the Quixtar profit.
What does the CA lawsuit have to do with you calling people Amish? And if you don’t have serious concerns about the way Quixtar is running their business you need to get your head out of the sand. —- It was an analogy, not a cultural put down. The Amish don’t even know they would have been put down, they don’t use computers. I’ve had serious concerns A/Q didn’t clamp down on the tool scam decades ago, but we are now going in the right direction.
First the lawsuit is far from baseless, look at the supporting facts. —- I did, there are very few facts in that lawsuit.
Second, while I do not expect Quixtar to just sit around and do nothing, I do expect them to act professionally. —- They did, they told their lawyers to squish TEAM like a little bug. These lawyers are highly paid professionals. You expect a multi-billion dollar corporation to “play nice” after being publicly accused of being an illegal pyramid?
November 6th, 2007 at 11:16 am
Dreamweaver 703
I heard. I heard. Where did you “hear” about the losses and early retirement? It is very irresponsible to write posts claiming that you “heard” something without facts to back them. Especially in this forum.
I’m sure you are going to tell me that “they” told me this. Whoever “they” is.
What has your “system” taught you?
Oh yeah, thats right, you said it taught you “something”. Nice.
Stop with the dropping prices and name changes.
As early as August 8th…you thought that you had your hands on the best business on the planet. That is a quote from your “boy” Orrin. And the name change was announced way before that.
Then your “boy” and your so called “friends” were terminated. You were enticed to resign. Not because of prices and the name change. Because your “boy” had you follow him like blind sheep. So stop using pricing, the name change and the non compete as an EXCUSE. The pricing, name change and non compete were there long before your “boy” got sent packing.
Dreamweaver 704
As for your convention in KY. The arena where this took place holds 20,000 and the overflow arena 6,000. So your number of 38,000 has no basis. Probably just another thing that you “heard” right?
Dreamweaver 705
That post actually was too ridiculous to even comment on.
November 6th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
IBO UK #712
I love it. YOu folks are NOW getting the prices we ALL should have been getting ..SA8 @ less than 1/2 of it’s original price….scrub brite @ about 1/4 !
Quixtar/Amway should be ashamed that they are not giving Americans ( who they built their business on the backs of ) the same prices.
TELL ME, Q SUPPORTERS, HOW YOU CAN CONTINUE TO ARGUE THAT THEY ARE DOING WHAT’S RIGHT IN THIS SITUATION ?
And don’t give me the story that changes are coming, because even if they are, it’s only because they are being forced to make them..as in the UK. And we STILL have yet to see if they will actually make any price cuts. I’m talking about significant ones, as in the UK ..not the piddley bones they’ve thrown out so far to appease the rank and file.
November 6th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
cmon.people.think #708,
It is blog lingo, and means “probably”. I don’t care for the term, but since I agree with GirlPower’s proper use of the facts much more than that word, I didn’t comment on it.
Don’t you know how to google a word? You should DO your name.
marc #709,
Those stories quoted numbers from a TEAM spokesman. They probably didn’t want to say more, as then they would have been criticized for overpromising and underdelivering. They could also generate a lot more (false) excitement by using a smaller number and then getting “more” at the function. This is what marketing is all about. Did you notice the new Orrinite headgear at the KY aluminum booth, that is used to amplify the effects of the TEAMtosterone chemicals, used at the functions? www.exn.ca/news/video/exn2005/12/09/exn20051209-tinhat.asx
I think a massive NASCAR car crash will look like a picnic in the park when the arbitration is over.
If that was the first time Orrin heard about his 6 years of repeated violations, don’t you think he would have been squawking ever since? Give me a break. Quixtar tries to make the rule breakers look as good as they can until they are terminated. A better question is why didn’t Orrin openly talk about the previous violations with his group, and what they were doing to fix the problems? That isn’t Quixtar’s job, to trash him while they are working with him, it is Orrin’s job to be open with his own group. Which he obviously wasn’t, just like he wasn’t open about his tool scam.
I am not telling you Quixtar didn’t have responsibility for product pricing, but if they weren’t hearing complaints from the field, they got lazy and falsely believed their “quality” line was good enough. I think it would be very difficult to start your own MLM, that’s why I’m sticking with A/Q. It isn’t perfect, but getting better. The new site they launched today is very nice, clean, and easier to navigate.
Secret profits that go into YOUR pocket and into your downline’s pocket, AFTER they have a big enough tool scam business volume, WHICH ISN’T “JUST LIKE WITH QUIXTAR products”!!!
You ignored the profit that comes from the stacking structure. Your original statement assumed a profit that is not available in a stacked structure. THAT’S what I mean you ignored the stacking structure. TEAM didn’t have too much power, they were terminated because their rule breaking got out of hand, and they weren’t interested in fixing the problems. This was not a “knee-jerk reaction”, it was clearly the right thing to do. There was no meaningful choice for A/Q, they were blackmailed and didn’t blink.
The reason why I like debating with you on this topic is because I have the facts, and you don’t. I am not trying to convince you of the truth, my audience is the new readers. The tool profit is required to be kept secret by TEAM contract from the downline (which is a court document that says it is), and Ron Simmons and Chuck Goetschel have chimed in saying it was a Quixtar request, which is only part of the truth, as usual. The real request from Quixtar was IF you want to keep the tool profits secret, you can’t display the lifestyle the tool provide. I don’t agree with this position, by the way. The upline can’t help themselves to not brag about their “goodies”, and the UK DTI has caught up with the scam, and I hope the FTC is not far behind. However, I’m not going to wait around for the government to protect me, that’s why I’m here in the first place.
November 6th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
John #710,
I have never stated A/Q is totally innocent in this mess, and have also said they didn’t take much action until the UK DTI threatened to shut them down. I said long before the UK DTI they wouldn’t do anything until the pain of the current situation is more than making a change and shutting down the tool scam. There, I said it again. I chose to remain on the inside, where I have more influence. I am also interested in building an honest A/Q business after it is cleaned up.
Fig #711,
Thanks for the “update”. That occurred several days ago. More evidence the MA$$IVE profit is in the tool scam, not A/Q.
November 6th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
I would like to pose a question to all of you who know so much about the legal issues and everything else in this case.
Do Orrin and Chris have to go to arbitration? They are no longer IBO’s. Can’t they just ride out the 6 months/2 year windows and move forward?
It seems to me that after the CA case dismissed Chris and Orrin COULD forget about the issues with Quixtar and just wait.
I know you all have your opinion, but what is legal (oh, I am sorry, most of you know the legal issues to. I guess that is why I asked)
November 6th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
IBO UK #712,
I think Amway has already admitted they had a part of the problem in the UK. And I agree, they were PART of the problem. The tool scam is the much more significant problem.
ibofb #713,
I think the past 10 years is a much more important trend than 30 years ago. It is the essence of not resting on your laurels, but rather “what have you done for me lately?”. You keep looking into the far distant rear view mirror, and not noticing you just left the road and are about to crash. But whatever makes you happy and able to win arguments, who cares about reality, right?
freeatlast #715,
I have an agenda to shut down the tool scam. My attitude is fine, I think yours needs some work.
Let me check….yep, I’m not on the legal team. But I know some of the legal team wishes they could say the things I am saying for them. It’s a great “job” to have, knowing the truth and reporting it. But the truth is something you aren’t able and/or willing to comprehend.
November 6th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
TEX said: “If I don’t give my two cents on a regular basis, the new readers wouldn’t even knew I existed.”
And you think this would be a bad thing?
November 6th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
whatever #719,
I agree, but then why do you spin it to sound like it was a loss on the merits? —- To counter your spin.
Which is it? Did they screw it up, or was it part of some grand plan to “poach” IBOs? Make up your mind. —- I did, their grand plan was to “poach”, but it backfired on them.
You seem to forget that the “others” you are talking about didn’t need to be “convinced” of anything. —- That’s right, the “others” failed the IQ test.
They likely would have left Amway anyway, because unlike you they don’t see the TEAM system as a scam. —- See IQ comment above.
I have always said I would have preferred a court case, which would have exposed the tool scam even more than it is right now. I also understand why Quixtar wants to keep it in arbitration(why is that?). —- Because most large companies don’t want negative publicity, genius.
Agreed, but that hardly constitutes “getting crushed” in the court system. —- DISMISSED WITH PREDUDICE is getting crushed. Just because you don’t recognize it doesn’t make it untrue.
Ahhh, this is the part where you offer your opinions and speculation as if they are fact. You just can’t help yourself. Lets all be thankful that the Judge made his ruling based on evidence and facts. —- Limited facts and limited understanding. I didn’t think the Quixtar lawyers did a very good job of representing the facts, but they also had limited facts, limited time, and limited understanding.
November 6th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
dannie #723,
IBO UK #712
The UK changes are several months ahead of the U.S. We know there is a “transformation” underway in the U.S., and it will take time, just like it took time in the UK.
I don’t know how A/Q CAN’T lower prices, since we can keep in touch with what happened in the UK on this and other sites.
TELL ME, Q SUPPORTERS, HOW YOU CAN CONTINUE TO ARGUE THAT THEY ARE DOING WHAT’S RIGHT IN THIS SITUATION? —- Easy, we are getting what your “leaders” said they wanted, but they also wanted to keep their tool scam in place, so they’re GONE.
I would have preferred the initiative came from A/Q rather than government agencies as well, but once the changes are made, the same results will occur.
November 6th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
tex 715
like i said, Maybe you misunderstood the tools i use, (books and cds) are just like the tools a plumber would use, (power tools drill bits , saws, glue, pipes). Plumbers are constantly buying this stuff every week to do their job. It never stops. No tools No business. I don’t have to be a superstar to grow my business, just pass out tools to people. And let them make their own decision and learn based on someone who has results. The more I leverage the tools and let them do the work the faster the business grows. Listen to a cd, then once you know whats on it you can give, yes give it to someone that would relate to it and let it do the work! When and if someone decides to get on system then they start getting to tools to do the same thing, very simple concept dude. This is not a business that works very well if you want to be a superstar, no mater if you use the 6,4,2 style or power player. You simply do not have enough time in the day to personally train more than 10 people at a time. Imagine even 10 people calling you every day! The books help you become the kind of person that people would like to be friends with, something it seems you would know nothing about since you can’t understand how thousands of people on the team could possibly loyal to each other even without the big Q. Loyalty is character and people with character are definitely the kind of people I want to associate with!
let me see here $5 to be able to have someone with results to show a plan to as many people you want to a open sounds like a good investment to me, plus i can write it off, hmmm.. sounds like another tool to me..
And yes there are books that come out every month for plumbers.
And yes there are Plumbing seminars every few months. That cost way more than 2 tanks of gas. same with heating and cooling same with electricians same with doctors same with any trade.
And even if you don’t have unions wherever you are, there is still a guild to answer to.
Say what you will about any of the “kingpins” but realize that no matter what side you choose this fiasco Is going to force Alticor to lower its prices and that is good for every one no matter what side your on, whether you believe that tools are good or bad or what business structure you happen to think works best!!!!
November 6th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
How many people think Alticor wants IBOs or ABOs in North America longterm?
Tex,
It doesn’t make a lick of difference to me how much profit comes from the system relative to total profit. It shouldn’t matter to anybody on Team, know why? Because all those on team have the same pay plan. So when whoever gets on stage and says “you do what I’ve done you’ll have the income I have” that is true.
November 6th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
#707 AEM:
Please refer to Tex’s comment regarding this in post #347. I didn’t insult the Amish. I asked a question. Feel free to take comments as you’d like rather than as they were intended though. I understand you may have learned that through some of your self-help CDs that team promotes.
#708 c’mon people think:
Do you not speak “net” or “text”?
Actually as soon as I hit “submit comment” I realized that I’d let the “net speak” slip and I knew you bored bandwagoners would run w/it.
Have fun.
November 6th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
I have purposely not posted anything the last few weeks just to read all the rantings, outright lies, the name callings, etc, etc, etc.
What part of “amicable separation” did anyone not understand? The Team leaders attempted to part ways in a “good faith” type of way but were then told of rules violations in their termination letter that they had just found out about. Just Q/A trying to cover their behind to make it sound like they actually terminated them for a reason. To date, there has been no proof offered that these “so called” infractions actually existed in the first place. If they did, I personally would like to see them. There has to be a paper trail somewhere.
I’ve had learned to ignore Tex’s comments because I have found his posts are based upon his/her own opinion & not from insider information. I’m going to take the high road here & not say anything bad because he actually does express good comments once in a while when he doesn’t resort to name calling. And please Tex, when you read this, just let it go. I respect everyone’s opinion regardless.
November 6th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
Tex, if you spent as much time building thebusiness as you spend in here ripping everybody apart, you could be a 60 FAA Founders Crown Ambassador.
Alticor Blog Moderator: Do to Tex what you guys did to TEAM. Kick him out so we can have a civilized discussion on these blogs.
November 6th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Sooner,
With regard to the 38,000 number in Kentucky…It does make sense if you consider that the convention was three days long and some people only attended Friday, some only Saturday, some only on Sunday. Also, on Saturday it started in the morning and went to midnight so there were people arriving and leaving throughout the day.
November 6th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
#712 IBO UK
#722 dannie
From my understanding,(IBO UK correct me if I’m wrong) the price cuts on UK products were only a handful and they were all in the home care category.
It’s a way for someone to “get their foot in the door” so to speak.
As we all know, those cleaning products last forever. So the impact is FAR less great on these products than say on Nutrilite products or the Edibles products, which are consumed (and reordered) many, many, many more times than the cleaning products.
I prefer what Quixtar is doing and introducing NEW products (and used more frequently than the cleaning products) in a lower price point like some of the Simply Nutrilite products and the Artistry Essentials products.
But I am not opposed to lowering the prices on our cleaning products. I think that would be a good move as well.
November 6th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
haven’t stopped by here in a while - thought i would see if the great tex was still insulting people —— I see he is, that’s what makes this site a waste of time.
November 6th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
IBO Fightback (713),
You are the one who is using sales to truy to figure out the current number of IBOs. It is because you can’t even come up with a common definition. You the definition of active IBO 30 years ago is different than the definition of active IBO today. That is why you spend so much time trying to explain sales/inflation adjustments etc. to come up with your proposal that active IBO numbers have gone up.
You consistently speak in half truths. Example is your recent post on your site that shows all the new 2006 Qualifiers. However, you conveniently ignore all thos who have quit, been terminated or no longer qualify. In other words - there is no net gain! I know for certain in WWDB there are less qualified diamonds and above then there were just a couple of years ago.
November 6th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
# 721 Sooner IBO Says:
Dreamweaver 703
“I heard. I heard. Where did you “hear” about the losses and early retirement? It is very irresponsible to write posts claiming that you “heard” something without facts to back them. Especially in this forum.”
Especially in this forum? Sounds a bit threatening… Are you gonna sue me now too? As for my sources, well, why would I want to name them? So they can get sued too?
“What has your “system” taught you?
Oh yeah, thats right, you said it taught you “something”. Nice.”
Hmmm, Very intelligent response. The system taught me leadership principles,finacial wisdom, being a smart consumer,where profits come from and how to build fast. Those are just a few…
“Stop with the dropping prices and name changes.”
To close to the truth? Oh wait…It is the truth and can`t be allowed on THIS forum. You better cut that post Quixtar!
“As early as August 8th…you thought that you had your hands on the best business on the planet. That is a quote from your “boy” Orrin. And the name change was announced way before that.”
Actually, I was never under the impression that the Quixtar Business was the best oportunity in the world. But Team approach definatly was! And will be even better I am POSITIVE once the 6 months is up.
“Then your “boy” and your so called “friends” were terminated. You were enticed to resign. Not because of prices and the name change. Because your “boy” had you follow him like blind sheep. So stop using pricing, the name change and the non compete as an EXCUSE. The pricing, name change and non compete were there long before your “boy” got sent packing.”
I was done as soon as I read the nasty email Quixtar sent me via email. I immediatly canceled my ditto orders and unsuscribed from auto renewal,incuding deleting my credit card info… Thank you. No one ever enticed me.
Dreamweaver 704
“As for your convention in KY. The arena where this took place holds 20,000 and the overflow arena 6,000. So your number of 38,000 has no basis. Probably just another thing that you “heard” right?”
You are right, I should have checked my source that time. But as you can see I was actually commenting on a post from another blogger. Still, we did have some people there that definately weren`t Team people.
Dreamweaver 705
“That post actually was too ridiculous to even comment on.”
You are correct again! I shouldn`t have commented on that ridiculous claim Quixtar made! Wasn`t worthy of a comment… My bad…
November 6th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Tex: When was the last time you were at Achievers? I’ll bet you have NEVER been… IQ Test? You are flunking by staying with Amway. You’ll see. I have been at the Achievers Invitational Trip every year since 1997… I know what I am talking about. After Qualifying EVERY month at Direct/Plat since 1992, I know more about how this works and doesn’t work than you have ever known. Q has been promising better pricing for a long time. They will not come through. I also have a close friend who OWNS a partner store on Q and he knows how the formula works… lower prices that can compete on the OPEN market will never come your way…. IQ test. Stay where you belong. You and the legal dept have alot in common.
November 6th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Tex: Regarding your remarks on 720… The tool money disclosure is controled by none other that Q! They made us pull a book out of our first night… yes first night info pack because it OPENLY talked about the Tool Income…. The specific numbers were talked about at the Go Diamond event… You were not there because you don’t have a business… You act like you know but you don’t. Quit misleading others like you know what you are talking about. You don’t. Quixtar’s own number say they only sell 3.4% of the products to retail customers… that means, since you don’t understand, that they are violating an FTC rule… Look it up, you seem to have alot of time on your hands that could be used for showing the plan… oh I forgot, you don’t do that or you would have been at Go Diamond…
November 6th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
Parrotex,
Ha, ha I’m just smiling right now and laughing. Be careful you don’t get carpel tunnel from all of your typing. It is so awesome to know that from the moment I blogged here you are unable to respond to any of my points and have to resort to using my words to insult me. Thats why I call you the parrot. Maybe you should try thinking for yourself. Oh, yeah Blah blah
November 6th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
tex
Team profits started at 12 in one leg and 12 in another, so how is it that at that point I was making more from system than products? I’ll tell you…. all my customers saw the prices and thought I was trying to take advantage of them and never bought 1, not 1 darned thing. I promoted xx vitamins (which I still agree are the best in the world by the way) and XS and anything else I could, Even sold a case or to Xs here and there to people who were just humoring me, how embarrassing looking back. No one wants overpriced anything, anytime or anywhere. Here I’ll give you some examples “dude I can get way better prices anywhere haven’t you been to overstock.com or buy.com?” I had one friend I signed up as a customer and before I could leave she shopped me and laughed in my face!!!!!!! I actually lost a good friend over that one!!!! And we were supposed to not focus on business building first, what a joke!!! And downline same thing “just get 100 pv to get a check but wait the money I save going to wal mart Is more that the check ill get, I knew you were taking advantage of people I quit” that guy left Q 1 year ago I rarely see him But he is still on system and we have phone discussions over it every other week or so, kinda strange I know but you never can tell about some people, maybe he just likes learning…..
Anyway I’m off track here. Without system profits or leveraging that same system to build the buisiness so you don’t have to be a Superstar, you get a tremendous attrition rate and then your left spinning plates like a some kind of silly clown act!!!!
November 6th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
Mark: After careful review of your submissions from Nov. 3, we see that you were attempting to repost materials that already appear on other websites and/or blogs (with the exception of your comment dated Nov 3. at 12:30 AM which we weren’t sure). You are more than welcome to link to those URLs provided you include some context (i.e. your thoughts and perspectives) but otherwise we don’t normally allow visitors to republish entire pages from external sites on this blog. And as for your personal letter to your church, we’re not confident that a public forum is the best place to post such correspondence.
Folks: Well, it appears this post is nearing the 1,000 mark, comment-wise. We’ll probably break this into groups of 100 like we did with the “Just go, Team” post. In the meantime, carry on.
November 6th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
Tex #724
“Those stories quoted numbers from a TEAM spokesman. They probably didn’t want to say more, as then they would have been criticized for overpromising and underdelivering. They could also generate a lot more (false) excitement by using a smaller number and then getting “more” at the function. This is what marketing is all about.”
This argument completely ignores the fact that the whole point in mentioning how many people attended the convention is no small amount. You mentioned that Orrin was all “alone” and would have to “start all over” with a new business, but 38,000 people to start with is no small amount! That was the point, if you recall and you can’t refute that. I saw the masses of people myself. I didn’t hear it from a spokesperson.
“I think a massive NASCAR car crash will look like a picnic in the park when the arbitration is over.”
I agree. A/Q will be licking their wounds after TEAM takes over the industry REGARDLESS of the arbitration results!
“If that was the first time Orrin heard about his 6 years of repeated violations, don’t you think he would have been squawking ever since?”
Again, where are the “facts” that you say have. I asked you last time and you didn’t produce. You claimed that I argued without facts and that you were the only one with the facts. So where are the facts on the notification of rules violations for 6 years? Or are you going to admit that you just don’t have it?
“Quixtar tries to make the rule breakers look as good as they can until they are terminated.”
What is the point of this? So now you’re saying that A/Q are bold faced back stabbers? Now I’m not surprised.
“A better question is why didn’t Orrin openly talk about the previous violations with his group, and what they were doing to fix the problems?”
Why would he do that if he is unaware of any problems? He’s being praised by A/Q, not reprimanded.
“That isn’t Quixtar’s job, to trash him while they are working with him, it is Orrin’s job to be open with his own group.”
Who says A/Q was required to “trash” Orrin to notify him of violations? All they had to do was notify him. That’s all. They didn’t even do that until his termination papers.
“I am not telling you Quixtar didn’t have responsibility for product pricing, but if they weren’t hearing complaints from the field, they got lazy and falsely believed their “quality” line was good enough.”
TEAM leaders had been complaining to A/Q for years. And A/Q ignored the problem UNTIL it became public knowledge, thanks to the lawsuit.
“I think it would be very difficult to start your own MLM, that’s why I’m sticking with A/Q.”
That’s why you will stay where you are in life and people like Orrin and TEAM (us) that have a bigger vision will blow right by you. But that is your choice.
“It isn’t perfect, but getting better. The new site they launched today is very nice, clean, and easier to navigate.”
I’m glad. I’m sure that will help your business really take off!
“Secret profits that go into YOUR pocket and into your downline’s pocket, AFTER they have a big enough tool scam business volume, WHICH ISN’T “JUST LIKE WITH QUIXTAR products”!!!”
Profits that go into your pocket and into your downline’s pocket, AFTER Quixtar have big enough PRODUCT scam business volume!!!
“The reason why I like debating with you on this topic is because I have the facts, and you don’t.”
You still have not come through on this claim.
November 7th, 2007 at 12:01 am
#735 Jeffrey:
Team wasn’t kicked out. They were told to follow the rules. It certainly isn’t Q’s fault that your leaders are incapable of doing that.
I gotta give the blog administrators some credit. I’d have booted all of you team-followers who insist on posting on the Alticor site long ago. The way your freetheibo site has done w/Q-supoprters. Civilized discourse cannot take place here while the detractors are jacking their jaws (or fingers, as the case may be).
November 7th, 2007 at 12:34 am
ben #731,
Okay, I’ll use the tools you use to build the pipe as the analogy. Does it make sense to buy a $400 wrench from your upline, when it costs them $40? Just so you can pass out those wrenches to others, and teach them to do the same thing? The upline loves folks like you, it makes them piles of money. Very simple concept, dude. Get it straight. I have no issue with tools ($40 wrench), I have a HUGE issue with the tool SCAM ($400 wrench). Especially when the tools are what creates the financial success of the upline and damages the finances of most of the rest of the IBO’s. Imagine how many more wrenches you could hand out, how much more pipeline could be built, and how much water (Quixtar profits) could be delivered with $40 wrenches.
I understand how thousands of people on the team could possibly loyal to each other even without the big Q, it happens with every tool scam group, just read what is happening with the UK IBS “loyalists” on the other thread. Loyalty is character and people with character are definitely the kind of people I want to associate with, but loyalty and character without honest is a big scam and lie!
$5 would be a bargain, as long as hundreds/thousands of dollars didn’t go to the upline after the room was paid for, unless it was well known these profits were the major source of their “success. The ability to “write it off” only means you can recover a small portion of the %5. This is not smart business, except for your upline.
And yes there are books that come out every month for plumbers. —- Does this mean the typical plumber should read every book that comes out?
And yes there are Plumbing seminars every few months. That cost way more than 2 tanks of gas. same with heating and cooling same with electricians same with doctors same with any trade. —- Same as above. The exception is for doctors, as their profession changes enough for them to attend seminars several times a year, and some are even required to go to these. That’s part of the reason doctors are paid much more than most other professions, especially the specialists.
And even if you don’t have unions wherever you are, there is still a guild to answer to. —- In other words, there are rules, even for “independent” plumbers?
I agree the price reductions are good for all IBO’s, and if you had been paying attention, this action was already on its way, months before August 9th.
November 7th, 2007 at 12:38 am
Well I guess you’ve all see the new quixtar.com site. It’s no longer necessary to provide an IBO referral number to buy anything you want on the entire website. Q/A already did this with the artistry.com and simplynutrilite.com sites, but now it’s even on the main portal.
I’m truly sorry for all of you who decided to stay with Q/A and defend their actions, since you are now no longer needed in order for people to buy from Q/A. Q/A is certainly not looking out for your best interests, so why should you continue to support theirs?
November 7th, 2007 at 12:39 am
AEM #732,
How many people think Alticor wants IBOs or ABOs in North America longterm? —- At least one, me.
It doesn’t make a lick of difference to me how much profit comes from the system relative to total profit. It shouldn’t matter to anybody on Team, know why? Because all those on team have the same pay plan. So when whoever gets on stage and says “you do what I’ve done you’ll have the income I have” that is true. —- Half of the truth is a whole lie. If they are so proud of their tool scam money, why wasn’t it openly discussed at Opens and Seminars? Answer: Very few prospects would join, and most current IBO’s would quit.
November 7th, 2007 at 12:48 am
MedicBob #734,
I have purposely not posted anything the last few weeks just to read all the rantings, outright lies, the name callings, etc, etc, etc. —- That’s fine, we need more spectators.
That’s part of the reason this is such a big mess, people didn’t speak their minds.
What part of “amicable separation” did anyone not understand? —- What part of “blackmail did anyone not understand?
The Team leaders attempted to part ways in a “good faith” type of way but were then told of rules violations in their termination letter that they had just found out about. —- If they had “just found out” about the rules violations, they would have been screeching from August 9th to this very day. You need to use your brain.
Just Q/A trying to cover their behind to make it sound like they actually terminated them for a reason. To date, there has been no proof offered that these “so called” infractions actually existed in the first place. If they did, I personally would like to see them. There has to be a paper trail somewhere. —- I’m sure Orrin has a paper trail, why don’t you ask him?
I’ve had learned to ignore Tex’s comments because I have found his posts are based upon his/her own opinion & not from insider information. I’m going to take the high road here & not say anything bad because he actually does express good comments once in a while when he doesn’t resort to name calling. And please Tex, when you read this, just let it go. I respect everyone’s opinion regardless. —- My opinions are based on fact and logic, like the previous rule violations mentioned above. Let your lies and lack of logic go? Not a chance. I respect others’ opinions if they are based on fact and logical. Why would you respect someone’s opinion if it is not based on facts or logic?
November 7th, 2007 at 12:58 am
Jeffrey #735,
Tex, if you spent as much time building thebusiness as you spend in here ripping everybody apart, you could be a 60 FAA Founders Crown Ambassador. —- I am building the business. This is called building the foundation. Without a good foundation, the building falls down.
Alticor Blog Moderator: Do to Tex what you guys did to TEAM. Kick him out so we can have a civilized discussion on these blogs. —- Need your diapers changed again? Maybe if I blackmail them with an “illegal pyramid” lawsuit, they would kick me off. Since you appear to support TEAM, perhaps they should kick YOU off, then we really could have a civilized discussion. But then I would be paid only a fraction of what I am right now, and wouldn’t have nearly as much fun.
November 7th, 2007 at 12:59 am
Have any of you taken a look at the Quixtar website recently? What is the value of loyalty these days when it looks like Quixtar has no feelings of loyalty for the IBO and has completely bypassed the IBO to sell directly to the consumer? Anyone can order from Quixtar or become an IBO without a sponsor IBO number! Isn’t that considered “stacking” to register a new IBO without an upline sponsor?
I am shocked and confused. Why is it not okay for IBOs to compete with Quixtar, but yet it is okay for Quixtar to compete with their own IBOs? Is that not considered a double standard? It appears to me that they are breaking their own Rules of Conduct! Should that be an example to us all?
What will they do next to earn our loyalty? Start selling in Wal-Mart?
Well, it looks like I have outstayed my welcome at Quixtar! It is time to go!
Now that Quixtar is competing with their own IBOs, I doubt if any Court of Law would condemn an IBO for quitting and going elsewhere, whether their new endeavor competes with Q/A or not!
It looks like time is proving TEAM right after all!
I am so disappointed in Q/A and can no longer in good conscience give them my loyalty any longer. This is the last straw!
November 7th, 2007 at 1:11 am
DLSChicago #736,
I have never seen that happen in the 12 years I attended major functions. Generally, it started out a little light on Friday, then built up throughout the weekend, with Sunday morning being a little lighter than Saturday. However, why would one spend that much money only to go to part of one of the days? Your explanation doesn’t pass my experience or the stink test.
Bridgett #737,
I don’t know if the cleaning/laundry products getting the price reductions was already planned, but I recommended this to Quixtar several months ago, as these products are commonly used and require little training on the IBO’s part to sell. Also, Quixtar said these products are not the major focus for profit to begin with, so it makes sense as a “loss leader” and the reasons you mentioned as well.
November 7th, 2007 at 1:21 am
glenn #738,
It wasn’t a waste of time, it keeps you away, right?
john #739,
Good observations, ibofb has been speaking half truths for a very long time.
confused #741,
Tex: When was the last time you were at Achievers? I’ll bet you have NEVER been… —- I have never been to Achievers, what does that have to do with the facts?
IQ Test? You are flunking by staying with Amway. You’ll see. I have been at the Achievers Invitational Trip every year since 1997… I know what I am talking about. After Qualifying EVERY month at Direct/Plat since 1992, I know more about how this works and doesn’t work than you have ever known. Q has been promising better pricing for a long time. They will not come through. —- Too late, it’s already happened in the UK, how can they not do similar changes here? Now who flunked the IQ test?
I also have a close friend who OWNS a partner store on Q and he knows how the formula works… lower prices that can compete on the OPEN market will never come your way…. IQ test. Stay where you belong. You and the legal dept have alot in common. —- Most of the partner stores compete on the open market, and make a small percentage of their volume from IBO’s. IQ test, indeed. I’m pulling for you to reach triple digits some day.
November 7th, 2007 at 1:27 am
confused #742,
The tool money disclosure is controled by none other that Q! They made us pull a book out of our first night… yes first night info pack because it OPENLY talked about the Tool Income…. The specific numbers were talked about at the Go Diamond event… —- Then tell us the numbers. Go for it.
You were not there because you don’t have a business… You act like you know but you don’t. Quit misleading others like you know what you are talking about. You don’t. —- Then YOU spill the beans. Come on. Do it.
Quixtar’s own number say they only sell 3.4% of the products to retail customers… that means, since you don’t understand, that they are violating an FTC rule… Look it up, you seem to have alot of time on your hands that could be used for showing the plan… oh I forgot, you don’t do that or you would have been at Go Diamond… —- Provide a link for the FTC rule. I have time on my hands to fix the tool scam first, build the business second. First things first. 7 Habits of Highly Successful People, look it up.
November 7th, 2007 at 1:30 am
Tauraus #743,
Ha, ha I’m just smiling right now and laughing. Be careful you don’t get carpel tunnel from all of your typing. It is so awesome to know that from the moment I blogged here you are unable to respond to any of my points and have to resort to using my words to insult me. Thats why I call you the Tauraus (bull-stuff). Maybe you should try thinking for yourself. Oh, yeah Blah blah —- So which is it, typing a lot and getting carpel tunnel, or copying/modifying your post with a few changes? You speak like a true Orrinite with high levels of TEAMtosterone, you think you can have it both ways.
November 7th, 2007 at 1:51 am
#734 MedicBob Said:
Amicable separation? All I saw was “You keep quiet, while we raid your business”!!
Infractions? They are clearly spelled out in the termination letter, quoting examples and time duration.
Orrin has never denied any of these allegations, instead he has filed the baseless suit in Caifornia, which has now been thrown out of court.
November 7th, 2007 at 2:00 am
ben #744,
Team profits started at 12 in one leg and 12 in another, so how is it that at that point I was making more from system than products? —- I don’t how much is made at the 12×2 level, why don’t you tell us? What I do know is more than one TEAM blogger has indicated a Platinum should expect to make more from TEAM than Quixtar. If you’re not honest about this, your a liar and a coward.
I’ll tell you…. all my customers saw the prices and thought I was trying to take advantage of them and never bought 1, not 1 darned thing. —- Not 1 darned thing? How about the XS below? Even Orrin said it was competitively priced, and wanted more products that were lower priced. You contradict yourself and Orrin in the same post.
I promoted xx vitamins (which I still agree are the best in the world by the way) and XS and anything else I could, Even sold a case or to Xs here and there to people who were just humoring me, how embarrassing looking back. —- Why would you be embarrassed? You were selling a unique product that had a competitive price.
No one wants overpriced anything, anytime or anywhere. Here I’ll give you some examples “dude I can get way better prices anywhere haven’t you been to overstock.com or buy.com?” —- You were talking to other “dudes” who didn’t value quality or understand this isn’t a buying club, it is a business. If you want to focus soley on price, without regard to quality or a business profit, you shouldn’t be an IBO. Simple as that.
I had one friend I signed up as a customer and before I could leave she shopped me and laughed in my face!!!!!!! I actually lost a good friend over that one!!!! And we were supposed to not focus on business building first, what a joke!!! —- Looks like you didn’t emphasize quality/convenience with her or even understand she didn’t care about quality/convenience. Also, it appears you didn’t guide her in the direction of the products that are competitively priced, which includes many core line products and most partner store products. Remember the 5 P’s “prior preparation prevents poor performance.”
And downline same thing “just get 100 pv to get a check but wait the money I save going to wal mart Is more that the check ill get, I knew you were taking advantage of people I quit” that guy left Q 1 year ago I rarely see him But he is still on system and we have phone discussions over it every other week or so, kinda strange I know but you never can tell about some people, maybe he just likes learning….. —- Same as your customer discussion, above. Does he know the upline makes much more from the tool scam than the Quixtar products? He might be interested in “learning” that bit of news.
Anyway I’m off track here. Without system profits or leveraging that same system to build the buisiness so you don’t have to be a Superstar, you get a tremendous attrition rate and then your left spinning plates like a some kind of silly clown act!!!! —- You get a lot of the attrition rate from the high cost of tools. The fact that you want more profit than the Quixtar profit you show in the marketing plan is indication you support the tool scam.
November 7th, 2007 at 2:00 am
Girlpower 733
I’m sorry, I don’t think I was clear. I am not commenting on your Amish remark. In 707 I am commenting on the way you deflected the question about it, that is all. And what CDs are you refering to specifically?
It’s funny how off topic these posts always get. The blog comes out, the first 2 or 3 posts are very relevant and ask good questions. Then Tex shows up arounf 4 through 6 and before you know it everybody on here is focused on stuff that has nothing to do with the case. Case in point is my post to girlpower.
Another interesting thing going is the division of people. Those that know about Team, from those that guess or deduce about Team. What makes this interesting is that those that don’t know won’t listen to those that do. One of my good friends has a degree in physics. Sometimes I ask stuff about how things work. Like why is the sky blue instead of another color? Whatever he’s answer I automatically give it far more wieght than mine. Because he knows, I don’t. I’ve looked at it and guessed, but I don’t know. I’ve never studied physics really, it would be silly of me to reject his answer and keep on insisting my guess is right, would it be? But that’s not happening here. Everybody has the right to think how they want. It’s just an interesting dynamic.
November 7th, 2007 at 4:24 am
Texdunce #646
Refer to post #542 qualification. Why do you assume I’m part of a tool scam?
November 7th, 2007 at 8:17 am
#476 Amazed said: I chose the name “amazed” because I really am… amazed… I am amazed that IBOs argue and fight over a contract that limits all of them…
Piet says: I just saw this now, and I completely agree with you. Actually, while we are at it, lets do away with the Ten Commandments as well. I really like sex, why should I limit myself to one women.
Everybody, let’s join Amazed: DOWN WITH RULES!!
(Especially if they don’t suit us.)
November 7th, 2007 at 11:16 am
Dreamweaver 740
I never mentioned anything about suing anyone. TEAM paranoia cracks me up.
You wrote:
“Actually, I was never under the impression that the Quixtar Business was the best oportunity in the world. But Team approach definatly was! And will be even better I am POSITIVE once the 6 months is up”.
Quotes like that are not helping your “boy” at all on this forum. You may be contacted by someone here after all.
By the way….Thanks.
November 7th, 2007 at 11:37 am
#741 confused: Which FTC rule would that be? Don’t tell me the retail rule, because there is no such rule.
The so called “retail” rule often mentioned by people, has only ever been applied against organisations that have been found guilty of running a pyramid scheme. It is included in the requirements of the court order that prescribes how their business is to be managed in future.
The general rule is that sales be to consumers. But don’t believe me, check the FTC site.
November 7th, 2007 at 11:44 am
I’ve never studied physics really, it would be silly of me to reject his answer and keep on insisting my guess is right, wouldn’t* it be? But that’s not happening here. Everybody has the right to think how they want. It’s just an interesting dynamic.
*correction to my previous post
November 7th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
I like both, the products and the tool system and the last time I worked was November 8, 2003.
I did not retire because of money made from selling products or tools. In 2003, I had an accident that retired me but because of what I learned from the tool system. I did not have a car payment or a house payment when I fell off a roof and spent 60 strait days in a hospital. While I was in the hospital, I met many different people. One man was driving down a 4 lane divided highway at 65 - 70 miles an hour in a full size truck. He was hit by car from behind. The car went under his truck picking it up and flipped it end over end 3 times. He landed in the oncoming traffic. I met a man that tripped in the living room of his house and hit this head on a coffee table, a man that tripped on a set of steps and a man that fell backward off his deck (less than 3 feet and onto grass). All of these people are quads and spent over 2 months in a hospital with several more months - years of physical therapy.
Forget about the ½ to a million in medical bills. Could you keep your cars or your home, when you could not go to work for 2, 3, or more months?
I was on a roof about to cut a hole and install a powered roof vent then build an office inside a garage on the second floor. I blinked, when I opened my eyes, I was in an ICU room.
Talk about the “Twilit Zoon” nothing seamed real. I had 2 IVs on my left arm, one in my right, wires all over, a big neck brace and I could not move. After a week in ICU then tested at a rehab hospital by a team of physical therapists and 4 different doctors, my wife and I was told that the accident broak and dislocated my neck; I would be a quad for life. I would use a straw or thumb controlled wheelchair. My wife learned how to take care of a 160 pound man that could not roll over or use the bathroom without help (most spouses will not complete this training - they will put their spouse in a nursing home and file for a divorce.) I have a wonderful wife and 4 children.
Today: I give thanks for many things. I give thanks to my Lord and Savior Jesus, the people at Shepard Center Hospital and the people that prayed for me. I give thanks for things that I took for granted like being able to move my fingers, feel a kiss, feel a hand in my hand, hold a cup of coffee , sit up in bed (without help), feed myself, dress myself, get out of bed, being able to get out of bed and into a wheelchair, getting strong enough to use a manual wheelchair, learning how to walk with a walker and now walking short distances with two canes.
I give thanks to Billy Florence, Alex and Team for teaching the system that they teach (set goals and go after that goal). Without a system, I would live in a 1972 mobile home, not in a new home. Our home is not finished but the basement of our new home is and it has a small kitchen, family room, 4 bedrooms and 2 ½ bath rooms.
What ever you chose to do, set goals, get a DREAM and go for it.
Pa
November 7th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
Tex #727. Someone made a false claim, spreading a myth about their being the same number of IBOs now as 30 years ago. I just pointed out that was incorrect, that’s all.
November 7th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
MedicBob #743, you say Team leaders “were then told of rules violations in their termination letter that they had just found out about.”. This ignores the reality that Team’s own court affidavits confirm that Woodward had been threaten with suspension twice. That’s not exactly “just found out”.
November 7th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
That should have read Medicbob #734.
November 7th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
#482 I wonder if arbitration is even manditory. Can Orrin and Chris just say “whatever….we’ll just wait the six months” or can Quixtar force them to arbitrate?
Piet says: They could have, and they should have. That is what the law requires of them. However, the way they have gone about it, is that their corp dba TEAM, has been sued for damages by Q.
Actions have consequences.
November 7th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Any update on the Nevada suit?
Any information re: Texas decision?
http://ronsimmonsspeaks.blogspot.com/2007/11/legal.html
November 7th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
It looks like Quixtar lost another round in Texas. Check out Ron Simmons blog. On November 5, Federal judge agreed with lower court ruling that Quixtar cannot disparge or interfere with Team business and should pay QBI bonuses.
November 7th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
MedicBob #734
There was nothing amicable in the way that Team wanted to leave and take everyone in that LOS with them. That alone was cause for dismissal. I am not saying that A/Q has handled things well, but let’s be fair and honest in describing the situation as it is - a very nasty separation on both sides. Amicable and honorable do not exist on either side in this mess.
November 7th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Alticor Media Blog Administrator #745
Or, how about posting Part 2 instead and letting this blog die its natural death?
November 7th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
Dear Administrator:
Why has my comment not been posted yet?
Thanks
November 7th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
745 Alticor Media Blog Administrator
I got a better idea, instead of breaking the blog into groups of 100 why don’t you come out with why we fight part 2
November 7th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Alticor you need to realize that long-term you will not win this battle you have all of the people that will follow Orrin vs. your stupid law team. It simply won’t work because of the sheer amount of numbers. Just let us go and we will pass you in sales which should b e final indicator.
November 7th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
Tex, we owe you a “p.”
Rich, we understand your sentiments in the two posts that are in queue, but can you find an analogy that’s a little less raw? Thanks.
November 7th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Parrotex,
Your logic is just is ,well , not logical. Keep typing your insults that don’t make sense and carpel tunnel will happen. Action = Results. By the way I see your results from this blog. Very, very, very small results, very small and not impressive for all the effort that you put into it.
November 7th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
Have it both ways? there is one way that’s successful hope you find it someday.
November 7th, 2007 at 8:27 pm
marc #747,
This argument completely ignores the fact that the whole point in mentioning how many people attended the convention is no small amount. —- I never claimed it was a small amount.
You mentioned that Orrin was all “alone” and would have to “start all over” with a new business, but 38,000 people to start with is no small amount! —- I said he may have to wait a lot longer than 6 months from August 9th, and may lose a lot of his stolen IBO’s by then. I also said it wouldn’t surprise me if the Orrinites went the TIF route, by starting a new product MLM that falls apart after a year or two, then Orrin goes off on his own with a Andy Andrews style speaking tour. I also said he probably wouldn’t be as successful, as he isn’t nearly as funny as Andy. Going back to GM is looking better every day for Orrin.
That was the point, if you recall and you can’t refute that. I saw the masses of people myself. I didn’t hear it from a spokesperson. —- That was YOUR point, not mine. I never said there weren’t going to be a lot of people at the KY function.
I agree. A/Q will be licking their wounds after TEAM takes over the industry REGARDLESS of the arbitration results! —- That depends how much the Orrinites have left after arbitration.
Again, where are the “facts” that you say have. I asked you last time and you didn’t produce. You claimed that I argued without facts and that you were the only one with the facts. So where are the facts on the notification of rules violations for 6 years? Or are you going to admit that you just don’t have it? —- I never said I had direct evidence of the 6 years of violations, but I do have the logic a 3rd grader could grasp.
What is the point of this? So now you’re saying that A/Q are bold faced back stabbers? Now I’m not surprised. —- The point is to give Orrin a chance to clean his own house without putting him in the dog house. That isn’t back stabbing, that is good business. Are you really this stupid?
Why would he do that if he is unaware of any problems? He’s being praised by A/Q, not reprimanded. —- Praised in public. Do you honestly believe Orrin would be quiet about the 6 years of violations mentioned in his termination letter if there hadn’t been any? Again, are you really this stupid?
Who says A/Q was required to “trash” Orrin to notify him of violations? All they had to do was notify him. That’s all. They didn’t even do that until his termination papers. —- How do you know, ge