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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
October 24th, 2007 @ 8:45 pm ET…
Why we fight, part 1
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
After being on the defensive for 20 straight legal attacks, we filed suit yesterday against the corporation that owns TEAM.
We filed suit because the single legal case we brought (and won) in this matter listed Orrin Woodward as a defendant—but Woodward then claimed to have magically disappeared as the manager of TEAM before the case was heard. (A legal trick like that is like pretending Rich and Jay have nothing to do with our company—but never mind. We’ll straighten it out.)
We filed suit because TEAM has had multiple chances to play by the rules in this dispute, but have gambled that they do not have to play by them. They have interfered with non-compete agreements. They have interfered with non-solicitation agreements. They refuse to arbitrate.
But most of all, we are filing suit because TEAM has taken proprietary business information from Quixtar that IBOs could be using right now to build Quixtar businesses.
If you leave your place of work today, you would leave behind your tools and information so that those who remain can carry on the business. You can’t help yourself to your computer, the stapler, the coffeemaker—or the company’s customer list.
That is ethically and morally wrong. It is also legally wrong. And that’s why we filed suit.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
October 25th, 2007 at 10:39 am
GirlPower #29,
Watch the “H” word, the Moderator didn’t like it when I used it (although that could have something to do with using it repeatedly), even though it is an excellent analogy.
LessBrain #30,
Oh by the way, Mr. Mohr, the legal attacks supposedly from Team were actually filed by individuals in an effort to stop Quixtar from harassing downline IBOs, and NOT by Team. —- Yeah, sure they were, and TEAM had NOTHING to do with them. Got some swamp land in Florida? I’m in the market….NOT.
If you will go back and read the complaints (just the first page–shouldn’t be too taxing), you should be able to see that. —- The courts will figure it out, that’s what they’re for. Plus draining Orrin and Co. for every tool scam penny he ever made.
Now how many complaints has Quixtar filed? —- Enough.
And will I be next, Mr. Mohr? C’mon, bring it. —- LessBrain, we could already defeat you “with half our brain tied behind our back, just to make it fair” (copyright Rush Limbaugh), now that we know your real name is LessBrain, it may be considered cruelty to animals. But if you are serious and not just blowing smoke, just supply Quixtar with your name, address, telephone number and amount of money in your bank account.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:41 am
Jerad #31,
Why do you keep suing us if you want us to leave? —- Because “you” damaged us, and now it’s payback time. Don’t pretend I didn’t warn you of this, because I did.
Look, if I got fired from my job I would most certainly take my tools that I bought and brought into work back home with me. Because I used them at work does not make them company property! —- You didn’t bring the business opportunity with you into this business, so you can’t leave with it. You signed a contract. Read it.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:45 am
dannie #32,
You guys think we are drinking “koolaid” and I, for one, am getting tired of being talked to as if I am too stupid or blind to know the difference between right and wrong ! —- We’re not saying “as if” you are stupid, we know you are. You keep proving it with every post, over and over again.
I am intelligent,educated, articulate
(yep…I can spell ALL the big words, Tex ) , self confident and totally capable of determining for MYSELF who is making the smart moves here. —- Go for it, genius.
So get over yourself QUIXTAR….assume ..in fact, BELIEVE IT, that you are dealing with adults who can think for themselves and stop trying to penalize others for something that we are CHOOSING to do all by ourselves. —- Orrin and Co. shouldn’t have picked a fight they couldn’t win. What are you being penalized for, anyway?
GIRL…It’s a business…it’s not a world war OR a flower child cult like following…and we are NOT talking about dictators or mass murders here. Well, maybe dictators. —- Yeah, dictators with the initials of OW and CB.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:47 am
#53 Bridgett
You ended it exactly as we see it. We have no beef with Q perse. We simply see the future of e-commerce very differently. Orrin asked Q if they would fix the prices to go along with our vision of the future. They said yes and did no for several years. When they finally said no and did no, we figured out that we have differences that could not be fixed. One of us has wal-mart in their sites to pass, both in sales and in prices, the other just wants to hang out with the prices getting higher every year. Both ideas will work, but not in the same place.
Thank you for coming up with a civil argument and trying to see our side. That was very refreshing.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:48 am
Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says #93
Screening “Nazi” is pretty selective considering all of the various groups you’ve permitted tex to slur.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:48 am
Bridgett #33,
Have you ever read “Personality Plus” by Florence Littauer? —- Don’t you have to have a personality before you can add to it?
G #34,
They went to where TEAM is incorporated. Besides, they can fly there on their corporate jets, Orrin and Co. have to fly commercial.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:55 am
Bridgett #35,
They aren’t suing you. They are suing TEAM. —- But…but…they’re all a TEAM, remember? One for all and all for one. Charge….
Bridgett #36,
Lawyers get paid like we do, by the word.
I’m sure it has to do with being able to rule one way on part of the lawsuit, and another way on other parts, and the whole thing still make sense. Or something legal like that….
Dwight #37,
I disagree. TEAM has provided very valuable information on this site. Don’t pay attention to Dwight, you Orrinites, everything is fine. Keep posting, please.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:58 am
dannie #38,
The point was (irrespective of WHO we believed in)that Q should not have been surprised at our response to their kicking the heck out of Orrin in print. That original posting “Just Go Team” was absolutely galling, infuriating and designed to raise all our hackles. —- That was the point, if you agreed with Orrin and Co., Quixtar didn’t want you, either.
So keep kicking us,Q. We’ll keep taking it and keep getting back up. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger and if you think we don’t get stronger every time you post your newest drivel, then you should have taken better notes in Louisville. —- You’re gone, now we’re just scavenging the leftovers. In other words, you’re already “dead”, you just don’t realize it yet. I can’t wait to see their notes from Louisville.
Can hardly wait for “Why We Fight…Part 2″ —- Perhaps some of the notes will show up in Part 2.
B-R-R-R-I-I-I-I-I-I-N-N-N-N-G IT ! —- I can almost see the veins sticking out of your neck.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:00 am
#72 bdg “They are your Family and Friends. Until YOU decided to make that relationship a business relationship through the Quixtar business opportunity.”
You mean I lose my family and friends to Q when I got them started? I’ve heard the excuse that people won’t do this because they don’t want to lose their friends, but I thought it was a lame excuse. You mean they were legally accurate? You can keep the in-laws, but my mom? My friend for 20 years? Why don’t you just take my dog too? Wow, must be great kool-aid to truly think like that. Can you please clear up that statement? Or tell people that is exactly what you mean? I’d love to see that posting!!
October 25th, 2007 at 11:01 am
G #39,
They want their performance bonuses back - all of them (besides the ones they didn’t pay due to recent unilateral actions) … and since that would be blatantly illegal, they’ll just go for them another way. —- They also want the big bucks, the tool scam money.
Gotta make an example of anyone who would dare leave the happy kingdom on their terms - now go placidly and eat your Soylent Green (oops, I mean Double X) —- Copied that one down for the next lawsuit, thanks.
What an opportunity we have here … “your business, your way” is actually “your business - you’re dreaming, right?” (sorry Dex) —- Why are you apologizing to Dex? He’s the biggest lying cowardly “kingpin” of them all.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:02 am
93. Alticor Media Blog Administrator
wow that is what i would say is grasping for straws talking about Rich and Jay as if it were todays buisness you were talking about, the truth of the matter is Rich and Jay would not have let this go as far as their kids have, Greed has goten the best of the Amway family
October 25th, 2007 at 11:06 am
Jerad #40,
Bingo. I know, you can sign up next February and Orrin can be YOUR downline, probably in just a short few years.
rnffemt #41/2,
Too late for that, Orrin and Co. started something that has to be corrected.
Here’s what you don’t understand……the very first blog about Team on this website stated, “JUST GO TEAM!!”……now they are trying and you’re going to sue them for it now??? That was in response to Orrin and Co.’s “illegal pyramid” lawsuit.
Forgive you if I’m just a little more than confused…..Is it JUST GO TEAM OR IS IT COME BACK HERE SO I CAN KICK YOU SOME MORE AND THEN YOU MAY LEAVE LIKE YOU WERE TOLD TO DO? —- You are much more than even a lot confused. TEAM is gone, we’re just cleaning up the carcass now.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:13 am
freedom #43,
Expect an e-mail from Quixtar. And thanks.
marc #48,
Non-competes are very common in the business world, your plumber example is a poor analogy.
So do y’all like the new Amway? —- I’m liking it better every day. You quit, right?
jason #11 GOOD POINT!!! can’t believe that thought didn’t immediately occur to me. —- Did you miss #13?
October 25th, 2007 at 11:18 am
S #49,
I don’t know why you guys just don’t fess up!?! From here it looks like you just don’t care about the North American Market. With the name change back to Amway, (against IBOAI approval),…. —- The IBOAI doesn’t approve anything, they make recommendations.
and the way you have handled the TEAM situation, IBO’s don’t have to be told, asked, coerced, cajoled, recruited, or any other form you may think of for resigning. —- Bub-bye.
The many unsubstantiated remarks in your latest lawsuit are laughable. If I didn’t know better, I might think that you are making the Team and Orrin & Chris the perfect scapegoats for your mass exudos from North America. —- Newsflash, you don’t know better. You don’t normally substantiate allegations in a lawsuit, you prove them in the courtroom.
As you have so eloquently stated in your frivolous lawsuit, (i’ll paraphrase) “IBO’s are resigning by the thousands.” This way no class action lawsuit from all of the IBO’s who put their faith in you to build a business based on morals, and character. —- If you think the tool scam is moral, we have very different views of this topic.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:18 am
The word on the street is that Momma Pat’s contract has been terminated.
Momma Pat!?!
So what’s up with that? Pat surely is an effective promoter of the products, corp and the people.
Could it be….the tool scam?
October 25th, 2007 at 11:26 am
dannie: Agreed; we must be consistent. Context is a determining factor, and we’re not trying to whitewash history here. It’s going to be case-by-case. Hope that helps.
toomuchtex: We have asked more than one person to tone things down a tad—Tex included. We sincerely appreciate everybody’s participation, as well as your desire to keep the discourse civil and intellectual.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:27 am
Fig #63,
The Jerry and Mandy article demonstrates the same termination process that the U.S. Diamonds received. Abrupt and without cause. —- Let’s see, do you call “abrupt” more than 6 years? How about keeping a tool ordering site working AFTER being told to take them all down, and don’t sell tools in any other manner, either? Do you consider the issues in the termination letter and the things I saw at Opens and a Seminar “without cause”? You are blind, stupid, or both.
I’m staying tuned to these blogs just to see who gets burned next. It looks like they are methodically getting rid of the highest paid people to balance a budget of some sort. I think Dexter is safe and so is Jody Victor, but there is still targets on the radar!! —- Dex and Jody should be the next targets, in my opinion.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:32 am
amazed #64,
When people do not learn from events in history, they repeat themselves. —- Yes, but you used a poor example. Try reading up on the scandals at Enron, MCI, Adelphia, Tyco, etc., and you’ll have better analogies when it comes to the tool scams.
When a leader lacks character, he or she is nothing short of a manipulator. Time is on the side of the leader with character, and will prove the truth. —- That’s why Orrin is gone.
My friends in both Amway and TEAM, lets not waste any more of our time reading the “internet bathroom walls”, but rather invest it making a positive difference in the the world. —- After the lawsuits are won.
I stand for truth and Gods unconditional Love for mankind; sure, I have shown my disappointment with the abuses of the legal system and have poked fun to make points, but in the end it is love that we all need. With real love, comes respect… you cannot truly have one without the other. —- So do I, but Quixtar will finish what Orrin started, despite your pleas for mercy.
To all who read this; you are a unique creation with a perfect purpose in life. Search for that purpose and spend the rest of your life running towards it full speed! —- Thanks, that’s exactly what I’m doing, putting a bright light on all the tool scams.
I hope that the fighting ends, and that there is a peaceful resolution before the economic engine, that many families depend on, is completely halted! —- I agree, as long as you don’t start another scam like the TEAM tool scam.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:36 am
AEM #65,
August 9th, and the dates listed go back to 2001. What’s your point?
John #66,
Accreditation is optional. The new deal is you can’t get QBI bonuses if not accredited, but the accreditation does little for the typical IBO, especially when it comes to knowing about the tool scam.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:42 am
timeandmoney #68,
Bub-bye.
cmon.people.think #69,
What kind of idiotic claim that TEAM members don’t know where XS comes from? Duh, you can only order it from Quixtar, so obviously everyone knew they didn’t buy it from TEAM, especially if they were on Ditto, which is ONLY available at Quixtar. Boy, isn’t it disgusting to finally realize that Quixtar thinks their IBOs are all stupid morons? —- Too bad TEAM IBO’s failed the test after watching the video.
And that prayer for relief? They want Team to not talk about Quixtar in their meetings? Um, they’re way late on that one. No one is talking about them anymore. Now that they’ve shown their true colors, there’s nothing for anyone to say about Quixtar in connection with leadership and personal development ever again. —- Except in the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit and various blogs.
Oh— and WAAHHH, poor, poor Quixtar. They want TEAM to stop “calling Quixtar’s pricing ‘horrible’ and stating that the ‘people cannot sell’ Quixtar product”. Well, since I’m not a party to this really lame lawsuit, I’m not going to stop saying it. The pricing IS HORRIBLE. Quixtar knows it, and if they don’t like people finding that out, well then they can just go fix it by changing their prices. Does it really take yet another lawsuit? —- Changes started happening way before Orrin and Co. got terminated, and will probably continue. Apparently, it does take another lawsuit.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:44 am
cmon.people.think #69,
Here’s another thought: The reason it probably takes another lawsuit is because the tool company isn’t able to be a defendant in arbitration, since it isn’t an IBO. However, the court system can and should be used for the purpose of extracting maximum funds from Orrin and Co. Have a nice day.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:50 am
Jeffrey #10
Good post. It blows me away how so many on this board think they can do anything they want to, regardless of contract terms. I liken it to working for a company, developing a client base, then leaving and trying to steal that client base away (that the company paid you to develop). And then being surprised and offended that the comapny takes action to stop this pirating of their business.
bdg #72
Very well said. Unfortunately, too many on this blog refuse to look at these proceedings from a legal point of view and will continue to dismiss your legal and logical perspective.
MichMan #86
Oh really? So a business that employs a salesperson through a contract has no right to that salespersons sales list? Right!
October 25th, 2007 at 11:50 am
Rick #75,
Those are ideas. Do you have any good ideas?
bill #79,
We’ll see how Pathetic, How Sad childish, crybaby whining, etc., the lawsuit is when it gets to court. However, Orrin’s track record isn’t very good.
Yes, they actually let people sue for protecting their reputation. Give me a break.
You need to read your contract.
You bought your tickets in July, which is why the judge said KY was okay. However, that excuse is GONE for the next function.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:53 am
How dare q/a insinuate I don’t have a brain in my head! And to then use that to form the basis of yet another lawsuit (#2 under Introduction)! I have resigned my business and am waiting out my 6 months in pergatory. No one told me to resign; no one suggested I resign. Quixtar CONVINCED me to resign through their postings on this blog and others, and by their actions. Oh, and no one from TEAM has mentioned another MLM to me either. What ARE they (q/a) smokin’?
October 25th, 2007 at 11:55 am
Thunderdunce #84/7,
There are people that still do believe in Quixtar. But only the ones with brains.
So what your saying is, if somebody at one time was with Quixtar and the LOS, we cannot participate with them in events outside of Quixtar? What about a football game? Dinner? A movie? Everybody that went with me was a friend PRIOR to Quixtar. Do I have to stay away from them? —-No, you idiot. You can do those things, you can’t promote another business to them. Haven’t we been over this many many times before?
The leadership convention in Louisville was exactly as it says it was, a leadership convention. No business was mentioned, no products were discussed, only great speakers providing information with heart and sole to individuals who want to better themselves. It seems Quixtars latest tactics are a desperate but futile attempt to destroy our constitutional rights, just like the kamikazi in WWII with its futile attempt to hold off the enevitable. —- That should get a lot of new prospects interested. No business. No products.
By the way, a “sole” is the bottom of a shoe (like the one I wouldn’t mind giving all Orrinites on their backsides), whereas a “soul” is what you intended to say.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
john jay franklin #109
There is a significant difference between a personal relationship and a business relationship. Clearly Quixtar is protecting the business relationships that have been established, as they have a right (I would argue obligation when viewed from other IBO’s points of view) to do. This whole emotional “I’m not property”, “I’m not owned” and “My family, my friends, the people I showed the business to are my property, not Amways” arguments are silly. Entertaining, but silly.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
to Freedom #57,
I too had believed in this business for the past 11 years, and that is all in the toilet, and that has nothing to do with Team. Quixtar/Amway is totally resposible for my resingnation. At first I was questioning all of this but as time has gone by I realize that Quixtar/Amway has become the most unethical business I know. It is disgusting what they are trying to pull. Yes, I thought this was the best business opportuniy out there but I WAS LIED to.
The best form of advertising is word of mouth, at first I was not going to say anything when people asked me about this but NOW I am going to TELL them how despicable and dishonest the Amway Corporation has become… and they will tell two friends and so on and so on and so on… guess what, YOU AMWAY brought this all on yourselves!!!!!!!!
October 25th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
#104 john jay franklin said, “Thank you for coming up with a civil argument and trying to see our side. That was very refreshing.”
To be clear, I can accept that Orrin and Co. do not agree with Quixtar. What I cannot accept is the manner in which Orrin chose to disagree.
Unacceptable, unethical, immoral, and despicable.
And that fact that you all are his followers is pathetic. Very sad. Very desperate on your part.
After reading the transcript with the convoluted TEAM structure, all the tool money, and Melissa Seeback’s testimony , it is just sickening.
http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Quixtar-v-Woodward-Contempt-Hearing-10-16-2007.PDF
October 25th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
#37 rdknyvr Retailing isn’t distracting me from building sponsoring part of my biz. It’s this Blog.
After taking a long time to read the transcript from Woodward’s Contempt Hearing, I have to say that I leave this in Quixtar’s hands.
It’s all so depressing and sad to see the harm that the leaders of TEAM have done and CONTINUE to do.
It’s just too upseting for me to read anymore…
October 25th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
john #94,
The “bully mentality” you refer to has been used at the freetheibo forum, the IBOAI forum, and several others, not here.
dannie #96/8,
I could probably find several spelling errors. Why? To get under your skin. You don’t have to try to give me something new to make fun of, what comes naturally is more than enough. Also, there are different Moderators, and they all make “mistakes”, especially in favor of their paid bloggers.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
john #100/4,
TEAM assigned another number to each IBO on their site, an obvious reason would be they expected to start their own MLM. They didn’t advertise the LOS chart, but they did make the bonehead mistake of showing the number.
It isn’t quite as simple as “going different directions”. There are rule violations for the past 6 years, wanting to break more on their way out, filing an “illegal pyramid” lawsuit, fueling the negative blogs, filing numerous other lawsuits, etc., that need to be dealt with.
toomuchtex #105,
Like who?
Chris #111/5,
The truth of the matter is if Rich had followed through on his Directly Speaking tapes, we wouldn’t have the tool scam in the first place.
I think she’s been gone for at least a couple of years, but you were too busy sucking down the XS and energy bars to pay any attention.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
great take on “this” lawsuit
http://qssr.blogspot.com/
October 25th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Tex -
If there was “proprietary data” involved (ie, business volume & buying patterns) there might be some creedence. But, names?
You suggest many “cases” based on proprietary LOS have prevailed. My recollection is, what often prevails is the enforcement of arbitration. You reciting arbitrations (with their sealed results) or the real McCoy litigation with impartial judge & jury of peers? You sugges the latter, so do tell … that would be a great service to all.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
I RESIGNED FROM QUIXTAR BECAUSE OF THEIR UNPROFESSIONAL MANNER. IN NO WAY WAS I ENCOURAGED TO DO SO BY ANYONE ASSOCIATED WITH TEAM. GET REAL QUIXTAR, YOUR SHIP IS SINKING.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Hey scAmway:
How about some cheese with that WHINE?
You can file, and keep filing lawsuits until you’re blue in the face. Here’s the thing. I resigned my Q/A business, of MY OWN FREE WILL! No one encouraged, suggested, or “recruited” me. And there’s only ONE scenario under which I might return to your sorry excuse for a company. That would be about 3 days after you-know-where freezes over. When my 6 month non-compete is expired, I, along with about 20,000 of my friends are moving on. Why don’t you let it go and do the same?
October 25th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
This is so ridiculous! Thanks big Q/A cause this just makes TEAM tighter, stronger and fans the fire! B-B-B-B-R-R-R-R-I-I-I-N-N-N-G-G-G-G-G IT!!!!!!! And let’s just repeat what the judge in Michigan said about Orrin:
“Testimony we received here from the named defendants, and I’ll relate primarily to Mr. Woodward, I have to say that Mr. Woodward, with his extensive engineering education, impressive education, if you will,
and other things that he has done in his life, I think there was some comment by someone here about an engineer not having people skills or whatever, some allegation, I’m not sure it was Mr. Woodward when he was testifying who came up with it, but the bottom line is this. Mr. Woodward is a very talented person. Part of that talent, I suspect, is, in much the same way the principals of Amway, Quixtar, Alticor, whatever the case may be, have been able to influence people in a variety of ways, through the ability to communicate in a way that people understand and appreciate. And quite honestly, listening to Mr. Woodward here today, or yesterday, whenever it was he testified, he did a good job testifying. If he was lying, if he’s being deceptive, he’s deserving of an Academy Award for it.
Some of the things that were particularly impressive, I think, was the fact that he didn’t get into arguments with lawyers, he seemed to acknowledge things that were there to be acknowledged. He seemed, in my mind at least, to try to be factual and honest in his answers. Why? Is it because that’s the type of person he is? Is it because he has a sense of religion, it’s important? I don’t know. Is it because he’s a great actor? I don’t know. But I think the value of this hearing can be demonstrated, at least in some degree, simply by that one witness. And I don’t mean to pick him out as the only
1 witness. I felt the witnesses on both sides, by and large,were very credible witnesses. The first witness presented by the plaintiffs, I felt he was very credible.”
I am a proud member of TEAM!!!
October 25th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
#126 BK says– This whole emotional “I’m not property”, “I’m not owned” and “My family, my friends, the people I showed the business to are my property, not Amways” arguments are silly. Entertaining, but silly.
First, I never said they are my property, just not Q’s. Second, how can it be silly and entertaining when that is my whole team?
October 25th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
What a waste of time and money your lawsuit is. TEAM sells books and CDS–leadership development. Now you might as well sue Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and John Maxwell also.
I resigned from your company because of your outrageous prices, the ridiculous name change, and the horrible way you treated me and my downline in your threatening emails and inappropriate blogs.
What a joke–a very expensive joke.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
This is too funny. Thanks Q for all the laughs.
First, I must have been at the wrong function last weekend because I missed the announcement of the new mlm. I though, “Ok, must have been when I was in the restroom”. Well I recorded the whole function (sorry TEAM just wanted to listen to it over and over again) even when I went to the restroom and nope not on any audio file…hmmm? Oh well, it must have happened because Q would NEVER LIE. I’ll have to ask my upline about the new mlm so I can find out the details so when I’m free I can join it.
In less than 120 days Team leaders are free and the rest of us are following. By July 1, 2008 (those that just don’t renew) we will all be free….can’t wait. Don’t worry about that 2-year clause, Q/A is doing enough for my downline that I couldn’t solicite this good. My downline will be running as fast aa they can on their own will. Thanks again Q.
In the words of Tex, “Buh-bye Quixtar, Amway aka Liars and Thieves Buh-bye”
October 25th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Bridgett,
Hang in there kiddo! Don’t let them get to you. One of them (#88 Kent Blume) even called me a winning liberal. Too bad he can’t spell whining! And he is sooo wrong. I am so Conservitive that I make Rush look like someone from the Left.
I have decided to just skim through these blogs and look for ‘interesting’ posts and ignore the rest.
October 25th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
B-B-B-B-R-R-R-R-I-I-I-N-N-N-G-G-G-G-G IT!!!!!!!
October 25th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
Anybody want to read some really good creative writting? Read the suit Alticor filed. I can totally see now why Tex and Bridgett are so confused about Team. If my main source of information about Team came from Alticor I’d be confused to.
October 25th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Lone Star State, while the “@#$%” keys are a step up from the spelled-out words, we still won’t publish language like that. You’re welcome to clean it up, tone it down and try again.
October 25th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
bhansen #134,
Bernice? Bub-bye.
Former Ohio IBO #135,
They’ll let go eventually. But for now, the squeeze is on.
Shannon #136,
Any of the lying cowardly “kingpins” would have looked good on the stand, that is part of their grooming to get to the position they “achieved”. They lie every night they show the plan, lots of practice.
john #137,
Because it is a stupid statement in the first place.
just_the_facts #138,
Bub-bye.
October 25th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
Steve #139,
Don’t worry, Quixtar probably recorded it as well.
Don’t bet on Orrin being able to start a new “deal” for much longer than the standard 6 months.
AEM #142,
Most of my information about TEAM comes from several Opens and a Seminar, not A/Q.
October 25th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
Alticor,
When will you understand that you are the reason people are leaving Quixtar? You told us you didn’t want us by the title of the blog “Just Go, Team.” That tells us to go and you don’t want us around. You are acting like someone that shot himself in the foot and then trues to sue the gun manufacturer.
October 25th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Hey, #37 Dwight Spaulding, The plain fact is that Alticor/Amway/Quixtar has tried to stick it to everyone in the business TEAM or not, that includes you. I guess that they have already brain washed you to the point that you cannot see it. The Mayo Clinic has a great Psychology department, maybe you should seek help.
So if you really want to be free and be a true IBO then come join the TEAM.
Truly
Exceptional
And
More
October 25th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Tex,
How can you defend Quixtar knowing that they have allowed the tool scam to thrive all these years? I don’t understand your logic at all. The tool scam couldn’t exist without the Quixtar business and vice versa. So please enlighten me as to why you persist. I think they are ALL a bunch of crooks and they are using you as a little pawn in their game to milk even more money out of people including you. What was your PV last month? And your bonus check? And how long have you been in? And how much did you say your net income was last year? Is this a hobby or a business for you? Wake up! Your a little, little pawn!!!
Don’t talk to me unless you answer my questions.
October 25th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Bridgett #129
If you read the whole transcript, did you not notice the judges statement that he tho’t ( at least up to this point ) that he would probably rule that Orrin was not in contempt ?
What additional harm ( coming from Team )did you see in that suit ? Except that your corporation wants to keep this in the public eye for the business to be ridiculed even further. Hard for me to understand why they would do that, after being so upset that Team had made such a “public” sight of it all.
Does this not also make you sad ? The fact that the judge doesn’t seem to agree with Qs postiton ? That Q brought a suit that is probably not worth the paper it’s written on ?
This is the same judge that issued the order, correct ? The one that everyone on Qs side agreed was brilliant just a few weeks ago ?
I agree that this is depressing. I think many of us are truly wanting to just get on with our lives.
The best to you as well, Bridgett. I really do hope that your business prospers. No matter how opposed we are in this dispute, I would hope that there is no personal animosity, but rather a difference in how we view the direction we take & how we hope to better our futures.
Personally, I would have wished that none of this would have ever had to happen….for all our sakes. I could have easily waited the 6 mos( going to anyway ) and no one would have been as hurt as many, many people have been. I just know that a 6 month sit out for many Team people will be devastating.
PS…Tex…please allow me ( upfront ) to let you laugh at me now for any improper language usage, typos, misspelled words and/or the “soft” PR campaign that I’m sure you think I just used on Bridgette. I know you don’t buy it. Thanks be to God, I’m not trying to sell it.
October 25th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Dannie #19: Yes, you paid for the inventory (SA8, XS, or cars and replacement parts, etc.), but you didn’t “pay” for your downline. You paid the price in time and effort, but you didn’t “buy” them from the company.
When I gave notice that I was quitting the janitorial company I was working for and the account that I had been cleaning wanted to hire me directly (for the same price they were paying the company I had been working for), the first words out of the Operation Manager’s mouth were, “Did you sign a non-compete clause with them? If so, I cannot hire you.” I did not, so he could hire me. If I had, I would have had to wait until it expired. I’ll bet that company has one now. That one account pays over $12,000 a year.
Orrin and Chris signed a non-compete clause and they are bound by it, like it or not. Of course, there will always be people that think the rules don’t apply to them.
If you don’t like the rules of this business, see ya. Don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
I want to know why the owners of Amway, Quxitar, Alitcor or any other company that you create and try to hid behind are playing these stupid games. You call yourselves so call christians but yet you are willing to hurt thousands if not hundreds of thousands of families by becoming a communist type business. Yet in one video clip Mr. DeVos said if someone wants to leave and take the principles of building a business like Amway that you would welcome that because of the free enterprise country that we live in. What in the world happen to honoring those words. If I remember right in the 10 commandments Thou Shall Not LIE!! If you keep dragging this along like you are then you’ll have to be judge by the almighty and I hope you will be prepared because you can’t hide behind lawyers when that time comes.
WE WILL BE FREE ENTERPRISE PEOPLE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER!
“You come against me with sword and spear and javelin, but I come against you in the name of the LORD Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Spartacus for Governor!
October 25th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
After reading the suit filed and the topic as posted by Alticor above; I just thought a couple of points should be mentioned here.
1. “If you leave your place of work today, you would leave behind your tools and information so that those who remain can carry on the business. You can’t help yourself to your computer, the stapler, the coffeemaker—or the company’s customer list.”
– If you are a business owner who creates a customer base that is used to create volume for a business that you have a compensation agreement with:
* The tools you use for your business are… YOURS! Not the property of the business that pays you for the volume created.
* The information on how you created the volume is YOUR Intellectual Property, not the company that pays you for the volume created.
* You CAN help yourself to YOUR computer, its YOURS; Your stapler is YOURS, Your coffee maker is YOURS, and Your Customer list is YOURS!
One test for ownership of intellectual property is the entity that “architected” the “property”.
The word “architect” (Latin: architectus) derives from the Greek arkhitekton (arkhi (chief) + tekton (builder).
Who would be considered the “chief builder” of, say, a Diamond IBO’s business? This is the question that seems to need an answer from the court!
– How many hours has Alticor dedicated to the architecture of “Double X”? I am certain that there were many! Also, I am certain that Alticor paid for many miles to be traveled for the development of the products.
– How many hours has Alticor dedicated to the architecture of any IBOs organization? Did Alticor pay for the time and miles required to build any organization?
TEAM or not, I believe it is obvious that the “structure” of the LOS is actually NOT architected by Alticor at all. In fact, the LOS should be defined as Intellectual Property of each and every Platinum IBO or above; individually.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
I apologize for the lack of structure in the above post; I should have prepared it and pasted it in, rather than typing it directly into the forum text box.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Hey Guys,
Seriously, things are going awesome and the new model is picking up steam. If I were you I would go find another LOA or Team to jump on to build your business. This TEAM Stuff is like a soap opera. Other Teams have figured things out and are running smooth. Hope you jump on board. If you sink with Team remeber Quixtar and Amway will still be going. Then what? I have looked at everything else. We all know this is the best model and it just got better. If not have fun selling some juice or bad gas pills. We are praying this stuff ends soon.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
History teaches us that quite often regardless of moral or ethical based claims that some seem to think that might is right. And almost always we call them evil empires. In my opinion this is just another example, QUIXTAR/AMWAY as the great Moses once said, let my people go!! To all the honest IBO’s that got in the way im personally sorry that it took a situation like this to show the true character of your business leaders, but its better late than never.
Zachary Lewetag
October 25th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Lajinito #146,
It was an IQ test. You failed. Bub-bye.
Lone Star State #147,
How did Q try to stick it to me? The $60 million in extra bonuses? The free shipping for new IBO’s and customers? The new competitively priced products? The millions being spent on advertising? If that is sticking it to me, I want to be a pin cushion when I grow up.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
#84 Thunderstruck:
People still believe in Quixtar. It’s business as usual everyday. Most people don’t know anything about this whole team debacle. In fact, some groups have never even heard of team. Does that put things in perspective for ya?
#87 Thunderstruck:
No one is sayng you can’t associate w/your friends & family. (You didn’t really think that’s what they meant, did you? Or were you just grabbing at strings of stupidity?)
What they’re saying is that you can’t try to sway your friends away from Q and towards another MLM.
Honestly? I can find better things to talk about w/my friends and family than this whole team fiasco. Are you really that limited on topics to talk about?
#89 Chris:
Duh.
#91 Chris:
20,000 witnesses to what? Witnesses that say that Q had rules and y’ll waa-waaed and tried to ignore them? Q has been down this road before w/better than the likes of team.
Sorry.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:29 pm
Niki #148,
How can you defend Quixtar knowing that they have allowed the tool scam to thrive all these years? I don’t understand your logic at all. —- I don’t defend their acts of omission, I have criticized them many times. However, I think the acts of commission the lying cowardly “kingpins” have done are much worse. I believe in the business concept, have invested a lot of my time, effort, and money in this business, don’t want to see a lot of unemployed people in the state with the worst economy in the U.S., don’t think I can defeat a huge corporation by joinnng one of the many voices who want the defeat of both A/Q and the “kingpins”… is that enough?
The tool scam couldn’t exist without the Quixtar business and vice versa. —- I think Quixtar could exist without the tool scam, but not vice versa.
So please enlighten me as to why you persist. —- As I have stated before, I don’t want the scamming of millions of former and current Distributors/IBO’s over several decades to the tune of hundred of millions to billions of dollars to continue. Isn’t that enough reason for you?
I think they are ALL a bunch of crooks and they are using you as a little pawn in their game to milk even more money out of people including you. —- You think wrong.
What was your PV last month? And your bonus check? And how long have you been in? And how much did you say your net income was last year? —- None of your business, both literally and figuratively. I have gone on record as telling you when I reach the Platinum level.
Is this a hobby or a business for you? Wake up! Your a little, little pawn!!! —- This blog is a hobby the A/Q part is a business.
Don’t talk to me unless you answer my questions. —- How’s THAT, Niki?
October 25th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
dannie #149,
If you read the whole transcript, did you not notice the judges statement that he tho’t ( at least up to this point ) that he would probably rule that Orrin was not in contempt ? —- Point?
What additional harm ( coming from Team )did you see in that suit ? Except that your corporation wants to keep this in the public eye for the business to be ridiculed even further. Hard for me to understand why they would do that, after being so upset that Team had made such a “public” sight of it all. —- Q viewed the KY event as a recruiting event. It’s public already, Q is now out for their pound of flesh.
Does this not also make you sad ? The fact that the judge doesn’t seem to agree with Qs postiton ? That Q brought a suit that is probably not worth the paper it’s written on ? —- No, because it laid the ground work to shut down the next event. It’s obvious TEAM can’t use the same excuse they did for this one to win the case, the tickets for the February 2008 event were purchased well AFTER August 9th.
This is the same judge that issued the order, correct ? The one that everyone on Qs side agreed was brilliant just a few weeks ago ? —- I think it shows the judge is neutral and making the best decisions they can based on their interpretation of the evidence.
I agree that this is depressing. I think many of us are truly wanting to just get on with our lives. —- I think it’s great.
The best to you as well, Bridgett. I really do hope that your business prospers. No matter how opposed we are in this dispute, I would hope that there is no personal animosity, but rather a difference in how we view the direction we take & how we hope to better our futures. —- I hope what you do prospers as well, as long as it isn’t another Orrinite scam.
Personally, I would have wished that none of this would have ever had to happen….for all our sakes. I could have easily waited the 6 mos( going to anyway ) and no one would have been as hurt as many, many people have been. I just know that a 6 month sit out for many Team people will be devastating. —- Personally, I’m glad it happened, there is now fresh evidence of the tool scam.
PS…Tex…please allow me ( upfront ) to let you laugh at me now for any improper language usage, typos, misspelled words and/or the “soft” PR campaign that I’m sure you think I just used on Bridgette. I know you don’t buy it. Thanks be to God, I’m not trying to sell it. —- I don’t think Bridgett buys it either.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Jeffrey #150,
Jeffrey, you naughty boy. “If you don’t like the rules of this business, see ya. Don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.” I haven’t heard it put that way before, I’ll file that one away for future use.
YOU LOSE WE WIN #151,
I want to know why the owners of Amway, Quxitar, Alitcor or any other company that you create and try to hid behind are playing these stupid games. —- What stupid games, Orrin is the one who broke the rules and started the lawsuits.
You call yourselves so call christians but yet you are willing to hurt thousands if not hundreds of thousands of families by becoming a communist type business. —- What’s Communist about lawsuits, that’s pure Americana. In the USSR they would just kill you.
Yet in one video clip Mr. DeVos said if someone wants to leave and take the principles of building a business like Amway that you would welcome that because of the free enterprise country that we live in. What in the world happen to honoring those words. —- He meant what he said, but you still have to follow the rules on your way out, knucklehead.
If I remember right in the 10 commandments Thou Shall Not LIE!! If you keep dragging this along like you are then you’ll have to be judge by the almighty and I hope you will be prepared because you can’t hide behind lawyers when that time comes. —- Make sure the lying cowardly “kingpins” know this one, I hope they learn how to tap dance before they see St. Peter. Or enjoy really really warm weather.
WE WILL BE FREE ENTERPRISE PEOPLE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER! —- It’s the other.
“You come against me with sword and spear and javelin, but I come against you in the name of the LORD Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. —- You best turn around and check out your “God”, because he’s red, has two little horns, and a pitchfork.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
Jeffery 150 says
Orrin and Chris signed a non-compete clause and they are bound by it, like it or not. Of course, there will always be people that think the rules don’t apply to them.
Actually it is more accurate to say
Orrin and Chris signed up for auto renewal which states that you are bound by the rules of conduct, and that such rules of conduct can be modified without notice, and at some point in 2003 a non-compete clause was added to those rules of conduct, and legally they may or may not be bound by it, because the manor that this rule was slipped in is questionable at best.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Administrator,
I thought is was a violation of rules/court order for TEAM to try to solicit Q IBO’s to resign and join TEAM!
Look at Lone Star State’s Post # 147. “So if you really want to be free and be a true IBO then come join the TEAM”.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
IBO To Go #152,
Spartacus for Governor! —- He’s dead, but may be able to do a better job than the current Governor.
amazed #153,
You need to read Jeffrey’s story #150, and get a clue.
TJ #155,
It will end soon, but not soon enough for Orrin and Co. and his Orrinites.
Zachary Lewetag #156,
History teaches us that quite often regardless of moral or ethical based claims that some seem to think that might is right. And almost always we call them evil empires. —- History also teaches us that if you break a contract you’ll get punished.
In my opinion this is just another example, QUIXTAR/AMWAY as the great Moses once said, let my people go!! To all the honest IBO’s that got in the way im personally sorry that it took a situation like this to show the true character of your business leaders, but its better late than never. —- A/Q will gladly let you go, right after you pay for what Orrin and Co. did.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Corporate Communications,
The one paragraph that struck me was this:
“If you leave your place of work today, you would leave behind your tools and information so that those who remain can carry on the business. You can’t help yourself to your computer, the stapler, the coffeemaker—or the company’s customer list.”
If someone was to work in a sales force & had existing clients PRIOR to entering said sales force (i.e. friends/family) and solicited them as customer/clients, then when they leave, they are also entitled to take them when they leave.
Now the rules mentioned that seem to be the crux of this matter are certainly important to note - non compete and non solicit. Since TEAM was selling BSM/SM books and CDs prior to Alticor/Quixtar selling books and CDs (for whatever purpose, its a free country) - would TEAM then take suit against Alticor/Quixtar because they’re now competing and thats ‘not fair’?
It is my belief that until proper EVIDENCE is presented (not info & believe, thats legally CIRCUMSTANTIAL at best), that Alticor should perform their due diligence and actually investigate their claims PRIOR to airing them to the world at large. If this blog is meant to be a CORPORATE representation, then it should not take the polarizing stance it has.
As far as not willing to arbitrate, I am unaware of any public or private statement that TEAM or Woodward/Brady et al are unwilling to arbitrate.
It was my ‘belief’, as you say, that after the court case in California, the plaintiffs were COMPELLED to arbitrate and were in process of doing so. That is what makes the ‘blogger’ case and the ‘TEAM office’ case so surprising to me. People who enter arbitration should not be gunslinging court cases at eachother, as that defeats the purpose of even arbitrating.
Since the POSTMA MEMO, I believe Amway/Quixtar/Alticor do not think the ‘business owners’ that aligned themselves to become ‘the IBOs’ have enough self-awareness to make decisions for themselves and are a communist collective, waiting for the whim-and-will of a leader before making any decisions. THIS JUST IN - Americans can and will think for themselves and act accordingly!
By the way, my legal disclaimer:
I, Benjamin Eibert, of sound mind and body, do here attest to the above was prepared and written by my own self with no coercion, advice, or pressure from any person, organization or entity. I make no financial gain by expressing my opinions as a free American, but I feel patriotic in exercising my RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH while it still is a right in this great land of opportunity!
October 25th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Bridgett #129, that’s what I meant… this blog will suck up time from business building. I think ajgannon made a good point on IBOFightBack’s site when he suggested that most of the people posting here are enjoying the slinging even though they protest to the contrary. And the handful of TEAM regulars posting here will not be convinced by ANY evidence to the contrary, although I suppose there is reason for Quixtar supporters to post if only to get some ‘factuality’ on the record.
One key point… the legal actions launched by Alticor will have ZERO negative impact on what the vast majority of Americans (and Canadians) think of the company. Zero damage. After the CA suit got tossed, that’s all people need to put it in perspective. And the rest is just protecting and cleaning up the business. This just doesn’t have staying power on the public’s radar even when it does make national news, unlike those in Team for whom it is everything.
Will, or are, Quixtar’s NA revenues taking a dip this fall? Probably. Did Alticor/Quixtar foresee that likelihood and accept it as a necessary consequence, and part of the process of cleaning things up? Without a doubt, IMO. This is part of a “correction” in the best sense of the word, and it’s going to make business building — real business building — much more effective going forward.
Jeffrey, loved your lines, you’ve got a great attitude!!! LOL
October 25th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
To all of you, with the exception of Pink Panther, not only did we fill up freedom hall, but the overflow was another arena that was pretty full as well. Maybe you didn’t hear me - the overflow was an arena. Most of us left by choice because we want to be men and women of integrity and character, God-fearing leaders, financially successful, and heroes to our children. So when we say B-B-B-B-B-B-B-R-R-R-R-R-I-I-I-I-N-N-N-G-G-G-G it, we have nothing to fear. We are striving to move on and do right.
October 25th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
TJ says: “the new model is picking up steam”
The new ‘model’ is simple.
Lose half of the distributors and get the other half to sell more product.
AQA has has the same amount of volume with fewer people and thus fewer ‘people problems.’
October 25th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Tex, I used to think you were a good buy. You have never built the business and you never will. Go get something else to do.
October 25th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
alticor is claiming what is morally and ethically correct?????!!!!!!! Oh my! Spare me!
October 25th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Your line of sponsorship is not your property, I don’t care if it’s your monther. That’s standard business practice, in this business or out of it.
October 25th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
rdknyvr,
Just making a very brief visit to check in on some friends from www.ttaa.com. Thanks for the reference to my comment. Thanks for helping us focus on what’s most important.
Bridgett,
Take heart. rdknyvr’s right on!
October 25th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
#166 rdknyvr said, “One key point… the legal actions launched by Alticor will have ZERO negative impact on what the vast majority of Americans (and Canadians) think of the company. Zero damage.”
I agree. I stopped commenting(in order to defend with FACTS), when I realized this.
Then it become a matter of trying to “save” these poor people.
But after today, I have come to your same conclusion: “the handful of TEAM regulars posting here will not be convinced by ANY evidence to the contrary.”
Not only will they not allow themselves to see the truth, they are getting “wonkier” (to use GirlPower’s word) by the thread!
I’m un-bookmarking this site.
October 25th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
#157 Tex
Just go, Tex
October 25th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Tex, your answers are not satisfactory for me and your logic is flawed - you’re a little, little pawn in a game of greed. I asked you how much PV you did do last month? How much money are you making? Quixtar with or without the tools doesn’t work! Your upline diamond and the corporation are the only ones making money. Can you say pyramid? Over the course of your time in the business, who is better off financially: you, your upline diamond, the corporation? I know its not you. Face the facts! You can’t make it work so you’re blaming the tool scam when you and Quixtar both enable it. The business is a hobby for you otherwise you’d be making money on something you spend so much time on. Better be careful the IRS will find out and disallow your deductions! You’re a little, little pawn! Face it!
October 25th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
I read your law suit versus TEAM. How do you guys sleep at night? What competing MLM are you talking about? What are you talking about….. period.
Also, I saw your alegations… where are the exhibits?
Greed is your problem.
October 25th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
Alticor Media Blog Administrator #116
You allowed tex to slur latinos; people were offended-you said and did nothing.
You allowed tex to slur the handicaped; same response.
You permit tex to offend in virtually every post. You engage him in warm banter.
To confirm that you are allowing one individual to offend entire groups of people, I suggest you re-read the many responses from the people who have been offended.
You permit tex to insult people he has never met and rant about issues in which he is not involved and speak of things of which he simply does not have the facts.
You selectively screen other individuals.
As the volume of garbage tex posts continues to accumulate, it appears more and more that this blog is using the Lone Stranger to carry the mail. If that is not the message that Alticor intends, then why not rein in this horse’s hindquarters? If it is the message Alticor wants sent, why not send it directly from Corporate Communications?
By intent or neglect, Alticor Media Blog is allowing many distributors and prospects to be offended by tex. Is that how you want to be painted?
October 25th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
Good bye Bridgett, WON’T miss you take Tex with you.
October 25th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
I’ve said it once before and I’ll say it again, Bridgett…
The battle cry of team seems to be “I’ve made up my mind! Don’t confuse me w/the facts!”
October 25th, 2007 at 6:52 pm
tex..
you have way too much time on your hands or your getting paid… this is a free country and we all have rights and such.. or we thought we did..
1. you have no rights left in amquix..
2. they were my friends to start with.. and now.. there property of quixsand..
3. morally and ethically has been a little abused by the quixand folks.. how about all the bonuses that were due to folks that earned there bonus,, yet did NOT recieve it.. so if you believe in santa you will believe in quixsand.. and some day santa just wont come for you either….
GOD BLESS AND PEACE TO ALL INVOLVED…
October 25th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
IBOAI Board Privately = We 100% vote no confidence in Quixtar or the name change to Amway.
IBOAI Board to IBOs = We are so excited about this best business opportunity in the world.
IBOAI Board privately = Our research shows that Q products are way overpriced.
IBOAI Board to IBOs = You can save 30% by buying from yourself.
IBOAI Board privately = 95% will drop out within 5 years.
IBOAI Board to IBOs = By following these CORE steps (and lining our pockets) you can surely expect $50,000 in your first year.
Alticor privately and publically = You are an independent business owner, but the business you built by recruiting belongs to us and you can’t have it. We are the best business in the world, but we won’t show you by fair competition - instead we will sue you so you can’t even try to compete (sounds like they are afraid of competition). Quixtar is not Amway, it is a brand new business model (I’ve heard that for the last 7 years). Uh, Quixtar is going back to Amway but it will be a “transformation” to Amway.
So in the end what happens? Kingpins still get insane profits by lieing to their downline. Quixtar still gets Jay factor profits by allowing kingpins to exaggerate. And ofcourse, single moms, college kids and new people with some dreams get hurt.
October 25th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
bill #162,
Are you trying to say they could be members of the IBOAI Board and be this clueless as to what rules had been in place for 3-4 years? You may think we’re that stupid, but I think you’re that stupid to suggest the above is true.
Dwight #163,
You’re right, that’s the 2 year part of the non-solicitation rule.
October 25th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
This is laughable. I read the entire lawsuit and here is my plan. I’m going to file a lawsuit against Wal-Mart stating 1,000 things that could be deemed illegal and just hope that a couple of them fly and they get shut down.
I cannot speak for the actions of every person in TEAM, however, some of the claims prove that Quixtar is desperate. First of all, we have NEVER needed a Quixtar ID to login to the TEAM website, nor have we ever needed one to get in events.
Secondly, no one has been told to resign from my team, that is just a pipe dream for Quixtar thinking there is no way 20,000 people have a brain of their own (again I cannot speak for everyone on TEAM).
Thirdly, this LOS proprietary stuff is a joke. Some people actually when building their Quixtar business built relationships with their team, so they would never need any of that information to give someone on their team a call. And if they are calling people they don’t know, it might just be to inform them professionally they are resigning. If that person asks why, we have a right to answer. Also, most people go to meetings on their own accord. Most tickets were bought back in July for Louisville, so LOS info is irrelevant.
Fourthly, the products are overpriced.
Fifthly, TEAM is no longer affiliated with Quixtar, so how can we be recruiting people into Quixtar to secretly compete with them.
Sixthly, the lawsuit makes you look foolish because there was NOTHING launched in Louisville except for a LEADERSHIP REVOLUTION. You know, the thing that you need to be successful at anything, not just an organization that is apparently competing with Quixtar.
Lastly, toward the end of the lawsuit, you sound like a bunch of whiny babies. Can you imagine K-Mart taking Wal-Mart to court, going “it’s not fair, they are competing with us. They have lower prices and our hurting our business.” No one is competing with you. We are building LEADERS.
October 25th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
Jeffrey #169,
When I need your advice I’ll ask you for it.
Lajinito #174,
Why should I? You’re already GONE.
October 25th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
Quixtar says right in the lawsuit!!
“If anyone knew our trade secrets and proprietary LOS info, the would have an UNFAIR competitive advantage.”
Does this mean they are conceding that they know if others knew how their structure worked they would WIN at their business because they know how to run a business better through competitive pricing?
For example, if a company has a patent on something which gives them total rights to it and no one else, they could be very successful if that thing in question is in demand. But if company B comes along and is able to use that same “thing” to compete, but knows how to run the business better and can give better prices and higher profit margins to its people, they WIN.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
When are you idiots going to get it. We all left voluntarely when you disparaged Woodwards, bradys, and the rest of us. When you threatened us with an ultimatum. And because of all of your cowardly lies. I hope this suit gos to Jury trial So the truth gets out.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
Tex #113
“Non-competes are very common in the business world, your plumber example is a poor analogy.”
– of course, Tex, I don’t expect you to like ANY post on this blog that speaks against AltiQuixWay.
So do y’all like the new Amway? —- “I’m liking it better every day. You quit, right?”
So what exactly do you like better about the new Amway than the previous one?
October 25th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
I just listened to a clip from Orrin Wood speaking at the 2003 Quixtar Live. Wow, here is the epitome of hypocrisy. On the video he is publically delcaring how fired up he about thie “best business opportunity” in the world. Now he says, for the last 6 years he has been trying to get Quixtar to reduce their overpriced products that cannot be retailed. On the other side, here is Quixtar lavishing praise on him & inviting him to speak t Q Live 2003, and now they say that he has not corrected inappropriate business techniques for 6 years. This is a perfect pictures of two crooks fighting over the same loot. And to be honest, Orrin sounds exactly like every WWDB diamond I have ever heard. They too are “all fired up, all fired up and all fired up”. They too know this is the best business opportunity in the world. That is Duncan’s statement even though he voted no confidence in Quixtar or its name change back to Amway. It is like every diamond from “just about” every LOS went to the same speech school “Tell them you are all fired up, it is the best opportunity, buy tools, and always trust every single word your diamond tells you, don’t dare question him, and you will be like us.”
October 25th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
Tex you need to get into a new line of work. So far all I see is a line of bull from. By the way you shoul start your own business. You certainly have all the answers. Shape up Tex and grow up. Lets face it you are man enough to start your own company. You are to full of bull. Good Luck Tex on person you put down.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
Hey, Thunderstruck
In your post on #87, your response is what we’ve fcome ot expect from TEAM homers. As I recall on the Just GO, TEAM strand, you homers were GLOATING about all the damage you were doing to A/Q. Well, now the real spanking begins. - snide comment deleted_
Oh, and as for your constitutional rights, or biblical rights, for that matter, where oh where does it give TEAM’s leadership the moral, ethical or legal right to steal property that you don’t own and use it as if it is yours? You don’t own the LOS, except for those you have established a personal relationship with, as I read my contractual obligations.
If this were the insurance business, you would lose your licenses and/or be sued for these actions by the company. It is called PIRACY. AAARRRRRRGGGHHH! -insert Pirate accent here-
You will have your day in court… You do have that right! Not like what you homers have done to our businesses…..
October 25th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Corporate Communications
re: This statement at the top.
“After being on the defensive for 20 straight legal attacks”
I would just to like to ask, how in the world can someone defending themselves from being threatened by filing filing a TRO to try and protect their business be an attack on y’all? Again, I am just asking because I would really like to know that.
And for anyone to answer, (us meaning anyone in TEAM including Orrin) regarding “smearing” Quixtar. Why is it that in just about everything that I have read regarding this conflict, Quixtar/Alticor has openly and blatantly disparaged, insulted and attacked TEAM, and in regards to how “TEAM is disparaging, insulting and attacking Quixtar” is only found in statements and accusations by Quixtar/Alticor? Especially since the leaders in TEAM have repeatedly asked us to do our best to avoid these claims.
Let see: 1. Quixtar/Alticor openly doing these things against TEAM, 2. The only signs of TEAM doing these things are that Quixtar/Alticor are accusing TEAM of doing these things.
Hmmmm, What is wrong with this picture?????
October 25th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
Dear Q,
It has come to my attention that not only team has been breaking the rules on bsm’s. I read the agreement on the bsm forms and found out that teams crossline to each other cannot buy tools or go to their seminars. Tex on #144 has admitted that he broke the rules. Now, normally, I would recommend a good talking to in order to solve the problems, but he has been stating for a very long time that if you break the rules, then you should get terminated. When can we expect to get an email confirming the termination?
#116 admin says–toomuchtex: We have asked more than one person to tone things down a tad—Tex included. We sincerely appreciate everybody’s participation, as well as your desire to keep the discourse civil and intellectual.
How can you say “civil and intellectual” in the same paragraph with tex? He has called people who disagree with him stupid, brainless, etc. How is that either civil or intellectual? Oh, never mind, he’s not on or affiliated with team and he is Q loyal. That explains it.
October 25th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
#153, well said
#155, thank you for disagreeing with respect and not anger and hostility. If we had more people like you and freedom, I would still have respect for more people in the Q. I still disagree with you, but I still have respect for you. Thanks again.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
Unfortunately, and perhaps by design, current Quixtar…oops, I mean Amway IBO’s and Team loyalists have been compelled to spar with each other on this blog (and others).
Honestly, I completely understand the Amway IBO’s…oops, I mean ABO’s…feeling the way they do. They have spent considerable time and money to build their businesses, just like members of the Team did. Now, they feel threatened. They feel that Team is undermining their business.
Of course, Amway ABO’s should recognize that Team members feel the same way. We are incredibly loyal to each other…we believe in each other…and Amway is trying to terminate our past business, our current business (which isn’t much) and our future business. Like you, we will fight to defend what we feel is rightfully ours…which, in this case, is simply the opportunity to do business (after our six month waiting period).
I wish the Amway ABO luck, and I hope at the end of this conflict, both the Team and the Amway ABO can shake hands and move on.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:12 pm
Tex 113 and Scott 127
I just hope people are not following either Quixtar or the team on blind faith, because personally I felt they were both acting like a bunch of spoiled multi-millionaires. My decision really came down to trying to compare the facts (or lack there of) I received from both my team leaders and my old team still affiliated with Quixtar.
The team and Quixtar have been filing lawsuits against each other. So who’s better? For me it came down to this: I felt Orrin should have kept his mouth shut, taken the six months, and walked away. People were going to follow him. I was going to follow him. By filing the lawsuit, and starting this ball rolling, I felt he was the instigator and created the monster this has now become. And I felt he didn’t have to.
Is there a basis for the “I quit because of pricing/Amway name”? Some people had problems with this so I agree with the team on that. On the other hand my Diamond also said (before the terminations) Quixtar had some products in the works that are better priced and the move to Amway will actually make the compensation plan better. For me: Either my Diamond was lying to me before the terminations or he started lying to me after. Either way, he intentionally lied to my face.
I saw more growth and more pv flowing through our organization (both before and after we joined the team) in the last couple years than I did in the previous years combined. If the pricing is the problem how is everything growing? And based on my conversations as I’m contacting, the Amway name comes up maybe 5-10% of the time if that.
And the last one was Orrin’s potential motives -vs- the non-compete, trying to get all BSM’s on the same page, etc. of Quixtar. For me: the company I was with was acquired by another company about a year ago. When we came over the owners of my company signed a four year non-compete. They also were required to get on the same page with how our new owners ran their business. Is it just coincidence that as his “leadership development” system grew bigger the non-compete became an issue? Or was he making so much money from his system he didn’t want to make his materials comply with the direction Quixtar was going? Based on the fact almost all lawsuits I see with Quixtar’s name on them revolve around BSM’s, I personally think they should have started trying to get everyone on the same page sooner.
But it all came down to one thing: Let’s pretent Orrin was OK with getting his BSM’s in compliance. If he was, has Quixtar done anything different to me or others in the last couple years I felt would force Orrin or anyone else to do what they did? I saw Quixtar spend millions to back up Randy Haugen and his lawsuit. Not a single leader has ever complained about the way they were treated on trips. And Orrin and all the other Diamonds built their business to millions with much more difficult circumstances than the current pricing or Amway name.
It all led me back to the belief Orrin’s ONLY motive from the beginning was to try and play out the “he who has the gold makes the rules” to Quixtar and try to tell Quixtar how this business would work. And by doing so, I think he P*ssed Quixtar off and now will have to spend millions fighting them.
And now, based on reading the lawsuit, I wonder if he was too arrogant for his own good. The accusations in that Quixtar lawsuit, including quotes, lead me to believe Quixtar has voice messages that came down from the team, printed emails that were sent to IBO’s, printed pages off the team website, and/or many other things they will bring into the courts. I’m not a lawyer, but you don’t use quotes and make those accusations unless you feel very strongly you have the proof to back it up. I can’t imagine, after the way the California lawsuit went, Quixtar would be dumb enough to file a lawsuit without having much information they feel will back up at least a couple of the major points such as:
- The 6-month inactivity rule being broken.
- The 2-year don’t contact IBO’s rule.
And if Quixtar wins, and again I’m not a lawyer, most likely I assume Orrin and the team would be forbidden from accepting any IBO’s in their “leadership development” business for two years if they were registered Quixtar IBO’s prior to their termination on August 9th or if they were brought into their system during the 6-month non-compete.
That would basically leave the team as a 15(or so) Diamond team starting from scratch and we won’t have a choice to go with the team because if we do Orrin is pulled into another lawsuit and we get kicked off his team. That was not a chance I was willing to take with my childrens future.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:29 pm
172. ajgannon
“www.ttaa.com.” is actually http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/index.php
I didn’t really intend to create a link in my post, but when I noticed it turned into a click-able link that didn’t go anywhere I thought I should clarify. I’ve primarily commented on the above mentioned blog.
Like Bridgett, I’m outta here! Commenting on blogs is for people with with way better time management skills than I have. I’ve got to go refine my goals and get organized. Go diamond everybody!
October 25th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Tex # 125 –
Actually, I had a coworker, my boss (the head of my department) and one of our corporate VP’s interested today in attending the next Major in St. Louis with me. And this was based solely on what I told them about the conference in Louisville! They got excited hearing about so many people learning about priciples of leadership, character, integrity, Personal Missions Statements and the like.
My coworker and my boss are Phlegmatic/Melancholies, who I told about what I learned there. I kept it low key, like talking to my spouse, of similar temperment. The corporate VP is a Choleric/Melancholy (like me), who was delighted to hear about the learning, the people and the keynote speakers (Orrin and Chris) being authors of a