Categories
- Alticor (88)
- Access Business Group (6)
- Amway (63)
- Quixtar (41)
- Amway Arena (3)
- eCoupled (3)
- Founders (1)
- Fulton Innovation (3)
- Grand Rapids (8)
- Hotels (5)
- Innovation (4)
- JW Marriott Grand Rapids (5)
- Michigan (10)
- Michigan Governor's Race (23)
- Miscellaneous (12)
- Product Lines (7)
- Sponsorships (2)
- Sports (1)
- Transformation (26)
Archives
Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
October 24th, 2007 @ 8:45 pm ET…
Why we fight, part 1
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
After being on the defensive for 20 straight legal attacks, we filed suit yesterday against the corporation that owns TEAM.
We filed suit because the single legal case we brought (and won) in this matter listed Orrin Woodward as a defendant—but Woodward then claimed to have magically disappeared as the manager of TEAM before the case was heard. (A legal trick like that is like pretending Rich and Jay have nothing to do with our company—but never mind. We’ll straighten it out.)
We filed suit because TEAM has had multiple chances to play by the rules in this dispute, but have gambled that they do not have to play by them. They have interfered with non-compete agreements. They have interfered with non-solicitation agreements. They refuse to arbitrate.
But most of all, we are filing suit because TEAM has taken proprietary business information from Quixtar that IBOs could be using right now to build Quixtar businesses.
If you leave your place of work today, you would leave behind your tools and information so that those who remain can carry on the business. You can’t help yourself to your computer, the stapler, the coffeemaker—or the company’s customer list.
That is ethically and morally wrong. It is also legally wrong. And that’s why we filed suit.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
October 24th, 2007 at 9:14 pm
Somebody help me here,
I become an “Independent Business Owner”. I go out and recruit a downline. I teach my downline that I went out and recruited. My downline (who are also “Independent Business Owners”) recruit more. So now I, as an “Independent Business Owner” who owns my own business that is comprised of my downline that I have recruited and trained - I decide to move in a different direction. But I can’t because Amway”Quixtar has propriety secrets that I might share. This is a joke in my opinion. IBOs beware. You are not an “Independent Business Owner”. You are am Amway distributor. And if you don’t do exactly what you are told, you will be terminated. I know I am a bit blunt, but this is the truth as I see it. I am no fan of Team, WWDB or the rest - but I believe Amway/Quixtar is just a twin of the tools companies. Both are interested in keeping the truth from IBOs (like the high failure rate). The arbitration that TEAMm didn’t want to participate in was found to be “unfair and unconscionable” in court. Who would want to participate in an unfair arbitration? Bottom line: IBOs you are not Independent Business Owners - you are Amway/Quixtar distributers. You better do what you are told or you will be gone!
October 24th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
unbelievable!!!! The attorneys for Q/A need to get a life. That is what is wrong with this country!!! TOO MANY ATTORNEYS with nothing else to do but work for big Corporations. What a waste of Q/A money that could be going back out to IBO’s and into positive PR instead of all this negative crap that they have put out. They are the ones that are forcing IBO’s to leave, not Team. I was on the fence in August, but all the garbage that Q/A has put out help me make my decision. I was even going to buy products from my downline that was going to stay with Q, but I don’t even want to give them any of my money anymore. What happen to the Corporation I got involved with 17 years ago?
October 24th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE NEWEST LAWSUIT
(b) Quixtar has not disparaged the business of TEAM (Count 2);
You’re kidding right ? No really …you ARE kidding us !!
Cause if you’re not kidding, you are stating an outright falsehood .
October 24th, 2007 at 9:42 pm
dannie #3:
As long as we’re counting, did you notice that Corp says they were planning to serve notice of “violations” of RoC at the August 9th meeting?
I’d say that constitutes admission that they had not done so earlier, in direct contradiction of their earlier statements …
BRILLIANT ladies and gents.
The beauty of telling the truth is, you never have to remember the previously told untruth.
btw, great press release rom MI Dem Party - you guys really know how to dig a PR hole.
October 24th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Gotta say dannie, that line made me choke a little on my protein bar too …
Well, I guess technically the ahh, somewhat disparaging remarks, were on the Alticor blog, not Quixtar sites.
October 24th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Line 13 -of the lawsuit - Axxording to Quixtar, “IBO and distributoe” are synonomous. Remember, IBOs. According to Quixtar, you the Independent Business Owner” are a distributor. In the UK, independent business owners are now called Amway Business Owners. I think very soon you too will be an Amway Business Owner (distributor).
October 24th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
G - TEAM’s own affidavits state that Orrin Woodward had been threatened with suspension twice before, so I’m not quite sure how you can claim it hadn’t happened other times.
October 24th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
“It is morally and ethically wrong.”
Please! Amquix! You know about morals and ethics?? You have hurt so many IBOs in recent months…shattered so many dreams. This is not the company I defended in countless living rooms.
October 24th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
Hey Tex…
Seems like Team Can refuse to arbitrate after all…
“They refuse to arbitrate.”
Guess all the damages that Q thought they’d recoup ( in their kangeroo court where they have NEVER lost an arbitration ) isn’t going to happen. So now the attorneys on both sides will make more $$$ and the media will get even more juicy tidbits to report to the American public.
Seems like Q is really looking out for the current IBOs, huh ? Cause we know that their suing Team is really going to keep more IBOs in the company…and make it even easier for those of you that are left to build your biz.
October 24th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
Another example: If you have a Chevy franchise, you may own the building, but you don’t “own” the business. It is GM’s business and they are LETTING you run it–providing you do it their way. If you do not abide by GM’s rules, they will terminate your dealership or franchise. Try taking home a Corvette or two and see what happens. Same in this business. If I don’t abide by the rules and A/Q/A kicks me out, I do not “own” my downline. This business differs from conventional businesses by only a couple of things–we can work from our homes, can set our own hours, we can choose who we have as customers or who we choose to work with as business associates, rather than having to take everybody who walks through the door, and we don’t have to have a million dollars of inventory. Some of you people need to get seriously educated about running a business.
October 24th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
I don’t understand this move. I thought Q wanted this thing to go to arbitration, and that the courts were referring this case back to arbitration and Q was happy about that. Now they file a lawsuit that will continue this case not being arbitrated?
October 24th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
“Unbelieveable”
Is it possible that you have gone and hired P&G’s legal team?
This is embarrassing.
October 24th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
oops sorry I missed the “they refuse to arbitrate” when I initially read the post, never mind
October 24th, 2007 at 10:05 pm
#4 G said, “Corp says they were planning to serve notice of “violations” of RoC at the August 9th meeting?
I’d say that constitutes admission that they had not done so earlier, in direct contradiction of their earlier statements”
I guess you missed the link I provided for you on a previous thread the LAST time you were in denial that Quixtar’s been trying to get TEAM to follow the rules for six YEARS.
Here it is, AGAIN:
http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Compendium_of_Exhibits.pdf
(pages 25-31)
October 24th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
One factual statement in the suit:
“Quixtar has not made binding promises to TEAM through its conduct.”
Heck, it really ain’t even still Quixtar … more like the “Amway opportunity” formerly known as Quixtar (note to Ada: gotta get that guy that made Prince’s moniker on retainer)
As near as I can tell, the ONLY promise Corp is willing to stand by to any IBO (scuse me, distributor)these days is the threat of litigation/arbitration.
It appears to be their only remaining area of expertise - and it is wielded with little concern towards recipients.
Jason #11 -
I think they’ve decided they ain’t gonna be able to hide this one under the arbitration “bushel basket”
October 24th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
#9 dannie said, “Seems like Q is really looking out for the current IBOs, huh ? Cause we know that their suing Team is really going to keep more IBOs in the company…and make it even easier for those of you that are left to build your biz.”
I believe you are being sarcastic, yes? If so, then are you saying that Quixtar should have allowed themselves to be blackmailed instead?
October 24th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
And just so you know, MY family and friends are NOT proprietary business information…they are MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS !!
You think I left because anyone TOLD me what to do ? You don’t know me at all. They don’t make cholerics much more hard headed than this one. NO ONE has made, encouraged, pushed, suggested, called up, emailed, smoke signalled or in any other way influenced my decision to leave Q.
I only had to watch how people I respected were treated and talked about to know what I was going to do….reading the first “Just Go Team” blog pretty well sealed it for me.
How can any one bad mouth a leadership that has people who believe in it, and then expect that many, many of us in those LOS would NOT leave. It’s like calling my baby ugly…he may be, but he’s mine and even if I call him that, YOU better not.
Team IS a family. Families stick together. Don’t you people understand that ? Did you really think you could insult, call Orrin names, disparage ( that’s right, you did what you accuse us of doing ) his character and we would still WANT to be a part of you ?
We ( the average IBO ) did not ask for, nor want this fight. We wanted lower prices so our downlines wouldn’t laugh at us when we asked why they didn’t continue to order each month.
Orrin attempted to get that. He didn’t. He’s gone and so are we.
Get over it, crybabies.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
G #15,
I think your right, so if they don’t get the desired results, will they file suit against the corporations that own Signature Management Team LLC? And then what would come after that?
October 24th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
#10 Jeffrey,
Your analogy might make sense…in fact, it does..seeing as a Corvette would be property of GM and Q considers us all property.
But consider that as a Chevy franchise owner, I’ve had to PAY for that inventory when I got it in my showroom, so I’ll doggone well take it home if I leave…or if they kick me out .
October 24th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
Thanks, Bridgett -
That ought to be worth your bonus (and I don’t mean Performance)
Probably thought you were talking to Greg.
It’s pretty amazing that in that very document, folks watched a video provided by Corp and then were not able to recite answers to questions contained therein …
And for that, the corp “determines” they don’t know their sponsor???
Maybe they were dealing with ADHD folks?
Perhaps they court an ADA (that’s Americans with Disabilities Act, not Amway Distributor Assoc) suit on top of all this?
October 24th, 2007 at 10:29 pm
The problem is in the Quixtar/Amway terms that say they own everyone you bring into the business. I think that is the unethical thing. Comparing taking customer lists with keeping people you recruited for your “Independent Business” is just plain crazy.
It looks like Alticor is changing their business opportunity into an employee arrangement compensated on straight commission. I think it’s time they take the “Independent” and “Owner” out of IBO.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
dannie 17
well put, keep charging.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:34 pm
How can Quixtar say they have LOS propietary secrets with a straight face? You buy from your self and teach others to do the same. That is it. What is secret about that? Oh the secrets are things like the exceedingly poor retention rate; the McKinsey report, the IBOAI’s unanamous vote of no confidence in Quixtar or its proposed name change to Amway, the truth that after 5 years over 95% of recruits drop out). we wouldn’t want the young college kid to know that he can expect 95% of his recruits to quit. Even the great Puryear, Britt and Yager have such a drop out rate. But let’s not tell that secret to the young student or single mom. Let’s tell them this is the best business in the world and let’s approve kingpins showing them rolexes and mansions. And Quixtar doesn’t even recruit or build downlines - IBOs do. If the IBO is the one who builds his downline, then how is it a Quixtar downline.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
Bridgett -
By the way, the only document produced to date with these allegations (aka uncorroborated) appears to have been drafted after the now infamous August 9th meeting. How CONVENIENT …
October 24th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
My full response is here:
http://crazyfunwildworld.blogspot.com/2007/10/quixtar-why-we-fight-part-1.html
October 24th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Guess Jeffrey has never heard of “floor plan”, eh?
Get educated about business indeed! Sounds like a good idea, Jeffrey.
(Cute site linked to your name all the same … except we’re probably not good prospects here - sorry)
October 24th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
Da–ed if we do, da–ed if we don’t. This isn’t even funny anymore.
Interfered with non-compete agreements? How? By questioning their validity?
Interfered with non-solicitation agreements? How? No one has solicited ANYone for any business venture.
WAKE UP–THIS IS WHY PEOPLE HAVE PUT UP BLOGS CRITICIZING YOUR COMPANY!! BECAUSE YOU DESERVE CRITICISM!! YOUR ARE ACTING LIKE MOHRONS! (Misspelling deliberate, Mr. Mohr.)
October 24th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
I read the above and I am confused, maybe someone can help me. I am a Realtor and I am considered self employed and my own business owner. To sell real estate I must hang my license with a broker. I own my clients and listings even though there is a realationship with the brokerage firms. I signed up with Quixtar as an Independent Business Owner. I got my friends and family involved. Do I now have to terminate all contact with them now that I am no longer an IBO? Do they own them now?
Another question is, they say:
“If you leave your place of work today, you would leave behind your tools and information so that those who remain can carry on the business. You can’t help yourself to your computer, the stapler, the coffeemaker—or the company’s customer list.”
How can I steal something that was mine before I started with Quixtar?
What are they referencing here?
“because TEAM has taken proprietary business information from Quixtar that IBOs could be using right now to build Quixtar businesses.”
I left because I have lost respect for Quixtar given the way they are handeling this dispute and second because I will no longer have a business after the switch to Amway. Prior to my resignation I alreay had the IBO’s I signed up tell me they would not renew under the Amway name.
Last how can they say that the TEAM is coersing people to follow them and rather than Quixtar. After the first e-mail they sent me after the termination of Woodward and Bradey I knew I was out the door. I just wasn’t sure when. TEAM has helped me grow in character and confidence. I have seen the benifits of the TEAM Leadership program in my personal and professional life.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
#17 dannie:
“How can any one bad mouth a leadership that has people who believe in it”
People believed in Hilter too. And Charles Manson.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
Oh by the way, Mr. Mohr, the legal attacks supposedly from Team were actually filed by individuals in an effort to stop Quixtar from harassing downline IBOs, and NOT by Team. If you will go back and read the complaints (just the first page–shouldn’t be too taxing), you should be able to see that.
Now how many complaints has Quixtar filed?
And will I be next, Mr. Mohr? C’mon, bring it.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
Why do you keep suing us if you want us to leave? Look, if I got fired from my job I would most certainly take my tools that I bought and brought into work back home with me. Because I used them at work does not make them company property!
October 24th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
#29 Girl Power
That’s the problem with this whole deal.
You guys think we are drinking “koolaid” and I, for one, am getting tired of being talked to as if I am too stupid or blind to know the difference between right and wrong !
I am intelligent,educated, articulate
(yep…I can spell ALL the big words, Tex ) , self confident and totally capable of determining for MYSELF who is making the smart moves here.
So get over yourself QUIXTAR….assume ..in fact, BELIEVE IT, that you are dealing with adults who can think for themselves and stop trying to penalize others for something that we are CHOOSING to do all by ourselves.
GIRL…It’s a business…it’s not a world war OR a flower child cult like following…and we are NOT talking about dictators or mass murders here.
Well, maybe dictators.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
#32 dannie
Have you ever read “Personality Plus” by Florence Littauer?
October 24th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
Amazing what happens when your home town judiciary tells you you’re all wet … you venue hop?
Pot calling kettle black, doncha think?
October 24th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
#31 Jerad
They aren’t suing you.
They are suing TEAM.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
Why are lawsuits so redundant? They say the same things over and over again. Those 20 pages could have been summarized in 3 pages.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
I hope Q/A wins this suit and wipes out all the assets of TEAM. I also think it is time to stop allowing TEAM people to post on these sites (if they are actually TEAM people). It is possible that they are all employees of the PR firm TEAM hired to smear Q/A. I am tired of giving them free reign to use this site to continue their smear tactics. Why do we have to allow them to continue? This is not their site, they have their own sites they can go to.
Enough is enough. It is time to shut them up here.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Girl Power #29
That actual quote of mine should have read
“How can any one bad mouth a leadership that has people who believe in it, and then expect that many, many of us in those LOS would NOT leave.”
The point was ( irrespective of WHO we believed in )that Q should not have been surprised at our response to their kicking the heck out of Orrin in print. That original posting “Just Go Team” was absolutely galling, infuriating and designed to raise all our hackles.
So keep kicking us,Q. We’ll keep taking it and keep getting back up. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger and if you think we don’t get stronger every time you post your newest drivel, then you should have taken better notes in Louisville.
Can hardly wait for “Why We Fight…Part 2″
B-R-R-R-I-I-I-I-I-I-N-N-N-N-G IT !
October 24th, 2007 at 11:29 pm
Jerad #31 -
It’s quite simple really …
They want their performance bonuses back - all of them (besides the ones they didn’t pay due to recent unilateral actions) … and since that would be blatantly illegal, they’ll just go for them another way.
Gotta make an example of anyone who would dare leave the happy kingdom on their terms - now go placidly and eat your Soylent Green (oops, I mean Double X)
What an opportunity we have here … “your business, your way” is actually “your business - you’re dreaming, right?” (sorry Dex)
October 24th, 2007 at 11:38 pm
Bridgett#35,
Symantics. The result is the same…attemps to delay the start of our next venture.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:47 pm
#37-Dwight…..Here’s an idea, stop posting blogs telling the whole world that you are suing people and those people will stop having to defend themselves……
October 24th, 2007 at 11:52 pm
Here’s what I don’t understand……the very first blog about Team on this website stated, “JUST GO TEAM!!”……now they are trying and you’re going to sue them for it now??? Forgive me if I’m just a little more than confused…..Is it JUST GO TEAM OR IS IT COME BACK HERE SO I CAN KICK YOU SOME MORE AND THEN YOU MAY LEAVE LIKE YOU WERE TOLD TO DO?
October 24th, 2007 at 11:53 pm
Here is what is interesting: I just got done reading a 20-page lawsuit through every point. And I can tell you as FACT, that my upline sponsor, Platinum and Diamond violated many of those rules.
My Diamond spoke at an open….AFTER….he admitted on a blog he was terminated. His son spoke at a team open….AFTER….he quit. Another Platinum spoke at an open…AFTER…he quit. After asking what was going on after I saw the lawsuits, my sponsor, Platinum and Diamond PROMOTED the team, the team materials (including giving me CD’s to listen to), the Louisville conference, the website, the CD’s and books, the “hypothetically speaking” possible ways the business would roll out, and personally asking me to join the team (with the comment “the one requirement” would be I would have to “sign up for” the professional development program).
If Quixtar’s attorneys called me I could give them details, names and dates in September that these activities happened. These are the reasons I questioned the validity of the team story all along.
There are points in the lawsuit I 100% know as fact and would stick my hand on a bible and back up in a court of law.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Bridgett,
I agree with the redundant statement (#36) and I have certainly read Littauer’s book. It’s a great read and very helpful in understanding yourself and those you come in contact with.
It’s just that this last blog has unleashed my inner ( ok, so maybe not so inner )choleric and comatosed the 2 points phelgmatic I have.
Actually, I’m about 1/2 sanguine ( too talky tonight ) and 1/2 choleric….thought I had learned more in the last 18 months than I evidently have. I’m just getting fed up with the suits…give it a rest already.
No one is going to win here. Why keep pushing each other…and I would say that even if Team had filed another suit. It’s time to let it go.
Q cannot keep US from going. It’s clear that they don’t even want to. They are just continuing to alienate some who are on the fence.
Dwight (#37)
“Why do we have to allow them to continue? This is not their site, they have their own sites they can go to.”
Paid by the PR firm ? C’mon, I just wish I was being paid for any of this. Hire me, someone… please !
As TEX would say …We will continue to post anywhere we see fit, unless and until we are banned from a site.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
This will get the information out of arbitration, off of just the blogs, and into the light. Let’s get ready to rumble!
October 24th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
#42rnffemt
I think the Corp was playing defense for 2 1/2 months.
Now they are moving to offense.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:07 am
dannie #17,
Amen brother! Couldn’t agree more!
October 25th, 2007 at 12:13 am
Okay, so let me get this straight. If I get hired on as a plumber at a big plumbing company (and I appreciate my work and learn how the business works as I gain experience), and then the company begins to treat me like trash (even though I’ve brought them millions of dollars of revenue over the years) and I quit and start my own plumbing company with my own way of doing things, does this mean that it is illegal? Have I broken any laws or contracts? There have been many individuals who have worked as employees at a business, learned the tools of the trade, and then have branched off to start their own business and I’ve never heard of these people getting sued. That’s just business. When you start a business, there’s always a risk of losing an employee that may eventually start a competing business. That’s why you should always treat your employees well to prevent them from wanting to leave! The ironic thing is, this is one of the selling points of promoting the Amway business…”Even if you were not an employee and you owned your own business, look at all the risks your business would have that your Amway business would not!” Ironic indeed. Now speaking of being an employee…
!!!!!ATTENTION, NEWS FLASH!!!!!!
You who are still currently IBO’s, you are NO LONGER Independent Business Owners. Although AltiQuixWay may still call you an “IBO,” it is now officially just a fancy word for “EMPLOYEE.” You have effectively lost ALL INDEPENDENCE as a business owner and are now subject to every whim of the mega corp without even a tidbit of negotiation. I’m sorry, what? The IBOAI? What is that? Never heard of it. You are entirely on your own whether you like it or now. You are now the SOLE PROPERTY of AltiQuixWay and if you don’t like how you’re treated then GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN!!!
So do y’all like the new Amway? =)
jason #11
GOOD POINT!!! can’t believe that thought didn’t immediately occur to me.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:16 am
I don’t know why you guys just don’t fess up!?! From here it looks like you just don’t care about the North American Market. With the name change back to Amway, (against IBOAI approval), and the way you have handled the TEAM situation, IBO’s don’t have to be told, asked, coerced, cajoled, recruited, or any other form you may think of for resigning. The many unsubstantiated remarks in your latest lawsuit are laughable. If I didn’t know better, I might think that you are making the Team and Orrin & Chris the perfect scapegoats for your mass exudos from North America. As you have so eloquently stated in your frivolous lawsuit, (i’ll paraphrase) “IBO’s are resigning by the thousands.” This way no class action lawsuit from all of the IBO’s who put their faith in you to build a business based on morals, and character.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:21 am
Minuteman #47
and my husband would think this was too funny…that people think I’m a man.
Smile when you call me brother…I wear skirts
Maybe my choleric side really IS coming out too much tonight. I’ve never shown it so much on a blog.
Just fed up with the foolishness of Q in continuing to tick us off. I know they don’t care, but when I think of all the work we put into this business, it trips my trigger.
I knew the prices ( on 95% of the products ) were too high. I honestly believed that the company would do something to help us in that area. I believed it because Orrin did…he kept telling us it was coming and I was willing to trust him. Now I see that he was lied to for a long time and in turn, passed on the lie to us. NOT because he knew it was a lie, but because he believed it was the truth.
I worked hard for a company who never intended to make this a viable business for the average person. I am sorry. We were told we could retail. WE COULD NOT ! Its a joke and if you retail, good on ya….
But don’t ask me to try and sell shampoo that leaves my hair so tangles I cannot get a comb thru it for 3x what the local drugstore ( who is already higher than most places )can sell a comparable product for.
And then tell me that MY business practices put me in legal and regulatory jeopardy ?
October 25th, 2007 at 12:26 am
Starting to make typos ( hair so tangles #50 )
Time to pack it in for the night.
A restful sleep to all…truly.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:34 am
I think this is wonderful. Now you TEAM people know what it is like on the receiving end of the lawsuit.
Let me guess… The Quixtar LOS documents were used to promote that big ‘ol meeting that was held in Nashville (Louisville?) last week end. They prolly have viable evidence that Q’s list was used to connect the TEAM LOS dots.
I really think this is “GO, TEAM, but don’t steal what you don’t own.”
Q already won the injunction to retrieve their stolen LOS info. Where are all you TEAM homers now that the suits are being filed on you? Get ready, the burning is about to commence. My guess is that this is the opening salvo in a major action. Stop whining and get busy with the truth, this time, not some PR smear campaign.
Yeah, the GM analogy is correct , just like owning a Mickey D’s. You sign CONTRACTS that have clauses in them like, “Behave and follow our rules, or else we will only put up with your shenanigans for so long.” Okay, TEAM homers, time to fish or cut bait….
Let the spanking begin……..
October 25th, 2007 at 12:38 am
#44 dannie
Lucky you. I score a big goose egg for Peaceful Phlegmatic.
#50 dannie
Do you mean detangler/conditioner instead of shampoo? If I only use shampoo—any brand—my hair is all tangled.
I really like the Satinique Moisturizing Detangler.
Anyway, I think the challenge/disagreement/argument that the TEAM IBOs are having with the non-TEAM IBOs is that:
* this biz isn’t for the “average” person and
* it’s not about having the lowest prices.
It never has been.
This business IS viable. Retailing IS possible. It’s just that you have to go after a different market—not the average, and not those that shop solely on price.
Orrin wanted a different biz model that what Quixtar/Amway/Alticor is.
It’s as simple as that.
All the best to you dannie.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:38 am
Dwight -
Spoken like a true Alticor believer … if can’t refute em, just shut em up! Here’s a thought - let’s say it’s an open forum and then sue em for participating … makes sense to you, doesn’t it?
I think there was a posting elsewhere here for more legal talent - you’re their kind of guy!!!
October 25th, 2007 at 12:42 am
nice try freedome no one is phishing here don’t know who u have been talking too but i know for a fact that this never happened no one told me to do anything i was just influnced to quit by someone they really didn’t come out and say they just did somethings that i knew it was time to quit oh the someone by the way was QQQQUUUUUIIIIXXXXXTAAAAAAARRRRR wake up!!
October 25th, 2007 at 12:46 am
Freedom#43,
Look, unless your Diamond sits on the policy council your testamony means jack. All of us have, at many points in our careers, had people violate contracts or policies in our downline. EVERY group has bad eggs. The point is whether the behaviour is policy. And I’ve never ever ever ever seen anything that suggests that what you are talking about is policy.
And change your name. Freedom ain’t allowed here any more.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:52 am
As a past team member, I urge all team members to go back and listen to Orrin himself speak on his CD Head, Heart and Hunger. And after you do, ask yourself one question, “does this sound like an unintelligent man who got “tricked” by Quixtar?”
If you will be totally honest with yourself, you will hear a man who truly believes he has his hands on the best business opportunity out there. Or……he is a no-integrity liar who is trying to trick people into signing up for something he doesn’t believe in so he can make more money.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:57 am
jerad smith #56
My Diamond was on the IBOAI board with Orrin. And, I never said it was policy, but based on all the blogs I’ve seen about the Louisville conference it sounds like many other IBO’s had their upline sponsor, Platinum or Diamond tell them the exact same information I posted.
Just because it’s not “policy” doesn’t mean it wasn’t planned and passed down from Diamond leaders.
Question: Why don’t I see the “policy council” on the lawsuits. If the lawsuit is not “policy” then how did they get filed?
October 25th, 2007 at 12:59 am
Ricardo de la Lioness -
Of course you think it’s wonderful - but I question if you’re actually thinking or simply reacting.
Which end of any one of these lawsuits have you been on anyway? None?? Roar on, kitty …
Lives and livelihoods are being affected and you act like it’s just another episode of “Judge Judy”
“cut bait”? … did you mean shark bait? Hey Tim, think we got a live one here …
October 25th, 2007 at 1:01 am
Amazing.
I can’t remember where I have seen such pathetic distortions. Q/A not desparage Team? All of Q/A, whether or not related to Team can say Q/A is guilty of all of the items Team has accused Q/A of . Q/A’s suit is a bigger joke than the Calif. suit was. Who told Team IBOs to leave Q/A - Q/A did..Go team Go…. This Alticor site is doing everything it can to encourage more and more IBOs to leave. No one at Team has contacted me to resign or not. I hope that the judge in NV sees this suit for what it is, a bunch of distortions.
October 25th, 2007 at 1:29 am
Has anyone seen this article?
http://www.michigandems.com/101807prs.html
October 25th, 2007 at 1:36 am
or this one??
http://www.jerryandmandy.co.uk/
October 25th, 2007 at 1:43 am
The Jerry and Mandy article demonstrates the same termination process that the U.S. Diamonds received. Abrupt and without cause. I’m staying tuned to these blogs just to see who gets burned next. It looks like they are methodically getting rid of the highest paid people to balance a budget of some sort. I think Dexter is safe and so is Jody Victor, but there is still targets on the radar!!
October 25th, 2007 at 2:02 am
This is from:
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2875.htm
“Communist Party Domination”
“…In December 1970, disturbances and strikes in the port cities of Gdansk, Gdynia, and Szczecin, triggered by a price increase for essential consumer goods, reflected deep dissatisfaction with living and working conditions in the country….”
“…In July 1980, with the Polish foreign debt at more than $20 billion, the government made another attempt to increase meat prices. A chain reaction of strikes virtually paralyzed the Baltic coast by the end of August and, for the first time, closed most coalmines in Silesia. Poland was entering into an extended crisis that would change the course of its future development….”
When people do not learn from events in history, they repeat themselves.
When a leader lacks character, he or she is nothing short of a manipulator. Time is on the side of the leader with character, and will prove the truth.
My friends in both Amway and TEAM, lets not waste any more of our time reading the “internet bathroom walls”, but rather invest it making a positive difference in the the world.
I stand for truth and Gods unconditional Love for mankind; sure, I have shown my disappointment with the abuses of the legal system and have poked fun to make points, but in the end it is love that we all need. With real love, comes respect… you cannot truly have one without the other.
To all who read this; you are a unique creation with a perfect purpose in life. Search for that purpose and spend the rest of your life running towards it full speed!
I hope that the fighting ends, and that there is a peaceful resolution before the economic engine, that many families depend on, is completely halted!
October 25th, 2007 at 2:05 am
Bridgett 14
#4 G said, “Corp says they were planning to serve notice of “violations” of RoC at the August 9th meeting?
I’d say that constitutes admission that they had not done so earlier, in direct contradiction of their earlier statements”
I guess you missed the link I provided for you on a previous thread the LAST time you were in denial that Quixtar’s been trying to get TEAM to follow the rules for six YEARS.
Here it is, AGAIN:
http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Compendium_of_Exhibits.pdf
(pages 25-31)
. . . look at the date on those papers Bridgett.
October 25th, 2007 at 2:16 am
To Alticor,
Why are WWDB tools approved for sale but not accredited on your Quixtar accreditation site? Here you sue TEAM (which I am not a part of) over BSM sales that you think are inappropriate, but you let other LOS like WWDB, Britt, Yager et al sell tools that you refuse to give accreditation. What is the point of accreditation? It seems to be absolutely meaningless. I know first hand that when I attended WWDB FED, and open meetings - it was all about plugging into their system. They consistently taught that Quixtar develops and supplies products but WWDB has the proven system of success. Alticor, you pick on the guys you want to but you let the masses get ripped off and you refuse to deal with WWDB and the big boys I think because you are afraid of losing volume. So guess what, the young college kids and the single moms keep getting lied to and hurt. Ao Alticor, why can any LOS sell nonaccredited tools?
October 25th, 2007 at 2:21 am
WAY TO GO!!!
this is simply superb.
Finally we are going on the offensive,
enough playing Mr.Nice guy.
we already know how superbly quixtar treats us,
its time to fightback for all these people who have not done nothing and never played by the rules!!
Im going Diamond.
with you all the way aQ
October 25th, 2007 at 2:51 am
Ok, one more time….. some just don’t understand the simple stuff. Here is how it was for me…..
1) Email from “Q” shows up in my inbox.
2) I think “What the heck?”
3) I go to the “Q” website to find out what is going on and find the Alticor Media Blog. I see the post entitled “Just go, TEAM!”
4) I call “Q” to find out how to “Just go!”
5) I go!
Nothin’ too complicated about that…..
Prolly that way for lots of folks I imagine.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:26 am
What a bunch of junk!
What kind of idiotic claim that TEAM members don’t know where XS comes from? Duh, you can only order it from Quixtar, so obviously everyone knew they didn’t buy it from TEAM, especially if they were on Ditto, which is ONLY available at Quixtar. Boy, isn’t it disgusting to finally realize that Quixtar thinks their IBOs are all stupid morons?
And that prayer for relief? They want Team to not talk about Quixtar in their meetings? Um, they’re way late on that one. No one is talking about them anymore. Now that they’ve shown their true colors, there’s nothing for anyone to say about Quixtar in connection with leadership and personal development ever again.
Oh— and WAAHHH, poor, poor Quixtar. They want TEAM to stop “calling Quixtar’s pricing ‘horrible’ and stating that the ‘people cannot sell’ Quixtar product”. Well, since I’m not a party to this really lame lawsuit, I’m not going to stop saying it. The pricing IS HORRIBLE. Quixtar knows it, and if they don’t like people finding that out, well then they can just go fix it by changing their prices. Does it really take yet another lawsuit?
October 25th, 2007 at 3:35 am
Jerad #56
The more TEAM IBO’s blog, the more clear it becomes that they hide behind words, and innuendos. A diamond is a very senior, responsible person.
Now you are saying to Freedom, that he should ignore what his diamond is saying. That reveals EXACTLY the attitude that Q/A was complaining about on the Just Go Team thread.
Locally we call it ducking and diving.
October 25th, 2007 at 5:57 am
Way to go Alticor and Alticor Legal. I’m loving it!~!~!
Initially I was upset with the orginal ‘Just Go, Team’ post because it needlessly aliented a lot of people — individuals in TEAM looking for direction, and others. But as time passes, it’s clear to me that the sentiment behind it was fully justified, as it pertained to TEAM leadership.
In a sense I sincerely wish individuals posting here from TEAM well on a personal level, but I do not agree with your organization and must say that on a legal level they are corporate thieves who thought they could get away with it. And Alticor will enforce its rights and thereby strengthen the basis for my business.
Bridgett, don’t get too distracted from continuing to build your business. Love your comments because they are credible and born out of your own retailing successes, but don’t forget what your own family goals are.
October 25th, 2007 at 7:09 am
dannie #17 - They are your Family and Friends. Until YOU decided to make that relationship a business relationship through the Quixtar business opportunity. That business has rules. I read them, did you? I have been in A/Q for over 12 years, it has, to the best of my knowledge, always been this way.
Moreover, some of those “friends” would probably not be friends had you not met them in the course of building your Quixtar business. I am not sure how you can be indignant now.
The LOS belongs to A/Q, and it should. Why would they want to provide you a business that doesn’t protect the newest person. The opportunity needs to be the same for them as it is for you — otherwise it does become a pyramid.
October 25th, 2007 at 7:13 am
John #1,
You wouldn’t have a downline if Quixtar didn’t have the products and services available. Independent doesn’t mean you can do as you please, no rules. You signed a contract, part of which describes terms of leaving Quixtar. McDonald’s owners own their restaurants, but you don’t see them putting jalaepeno peppers in their Big Macs, do you? The word “independent” may go away, as it obviously gives at least some people the wrong impression. But we are not really Distributors any longer, either, as this word was more descriptive of when we picked up products from our sponsor. Having a problem with the name is a joke in my opinion. Idiots beware. You are an “Independent Business Owner”. You are not an Amway distributor. And if you don’t follow the rules, you will be given plenty of opportunity to fix your practices, but if you refuse to comply, you will be terminated. I know I am factual, but this is the truth as I see it. I am no fan of Team, WWDB or the rest - but I believe Amway/Quixtar is just slow to move on the tools companies. Both are interested in maintaining their volume from IBOs. The arbitration that TEAM didn’t want to participate in was found to be “unfair and unconscionable” in court. Who would want to participate in an unfair arbitration? Bottom line: IBOs you are Independent Business Owners - you are not Amway/Quixtar distributers. You better follow the rules, or you will be given plenty of time to correct your problems (for example, Orrin was given 6 years) and if you refuse to take corrective action, you will be gone!
bbb#2,
Unbelievable!!!! The attorneys for Q/A need to squish Orrin like a bug. That is what is right with this company!!! They actually want to protect their reputation, fancy that. TOO MANY ATTORNEYS with nothing else to do but work for big Orrinite egos. What a waste of Q/A money that could be going back out to IBO’s and into positive PR instead of all this negative crap that Orrin has put out. They are the ones that are forcing IBO’s to leave, not Quixtar. I wasn’t on the fence in August, and am so far away from it now the fence isn’t even in sight, because all the garbage that TEAM has put out help me make my decision. I even buy products from myself because I’m going to stay with Q, and I even want to give them my money to fund the legal action against TEAM. What happen to the upline I got involved with many years ago?
October 25th, 2007 at 7:22 am
dannie #3,
They are not kidding, they are identifying where Orrin and Co broke rules, and are protecting their reputation, as they should.
G #4,
As long as we’re counting, did you notice that Corp says they were planning to serve notice of “violations” of RoC at the August 9th meeting? —- You mean the rules violations they documented in the termination letter that had been going on for 6 years?
I’d say that constitutes admission that you are clueless, in direct consistency of your earlier statements …
BRILLIANT ladies and gents. —- Take a bow, A/Q.
The beauty of telling the truth is, you never have to remember the previously told untruth.
btw, great press release from MI Dem Party - Orrin and Co. really knows how to create interesting alliances. Upline always praises the Republicans, largely because they are more pro-business than the Dem’s, but now Orrin and the Dem’s are buddies, the PR guy he hired even works for the current Dem Governor. This should serve Dick DeVos well in the next election, should he choose to run again.
October 25th, 2007 at 7:30 am
Hey im sure the pope hasnt been sued yet.. and hey they also tell me that bear at the zoo he hasnt been sued yet either. lets see….
waldo did anyone sue him…. and what about the beaver.. mmmm just giving you some ideas….
October 25th, 2007 at 7:30 am
ibofb #5,
Gotta say dannie, that line made me choke a little on my protein bar too … —- Too bad it was only a little.
Well, I guess technically the ahh, somewhat disparaging remarks, were on the Alticor blog, not Quixtar sites. —- The “disparaging remarks” also came from bloggers, not the corp. Brilliant move, if I should say so myself. Corp allows both sides to tell their story, and we pummel the Orrinites. A match made in heaven (except for you, ibofb, I realize you don’t believe in that kind of thing).
John #6,
Line 13 -of the lawsuit - According to Quixtar, “IBO and distributoe” are synonomous. —- This is for definition purposes in the lawsuit, as IBO’s used to known as Distributors. Are you really thihs dense?
Remember, IBOs. According to Quixtar, you the Independent Business Owner” are a distributor. In the UK, independent business owners are now called Amway Business Owners. I think very soon you too will be an Amway Business Owner (distributor). —- I think ABO would be more appropriate for dense people like you, too bad we have to appeal to the lowest common denominator (that would be dense people, like YOU).
October 25th, 2007 at 7:34 am
ibofb #7,
Please do NOT confuse G with the facts. He really can’t handle it.
Mary Ann #8,
“It is morally and ethically wrong.”
Please! Amquix! You know about morals and ethics?? You have hurt so many IBOs in recent months…shattered so many dreams. This is not the company I defended in countless living rooms. —- Yes it is, but it’s not the company that turned a blind eye to the tool scam for the past several decades. You were defending a tool scam and may or may not have known it, but that’s reality. Orrin shattered dreams with his tool scam and “illegal pyramid” lawsuit.
October 25th, 2007 at 7:58 am
dannie #9,
Seems like Team Can refuse to arbitrate after all…“They refuse to arbitrate.” —- Looks like this issue is pretty well covered, see below. What I don’t know is what Michigan law says in regard to the first part of 11.5.35.
11.1.3. All IBOs, whether they are a Party to the dispute or not, are required to respond to inquiries and otherwise cooperate in a timely fashion with any investigation conducted by the Corporation. Failure to respond to inquiries or to otherwise cooperate in a timely fashion may result in the Corporation taking action against the IB.
11.5.35. Arbitration in the Absence of a Party or Representative
Unless the law provides to the contrary, the arbitration may proceed in the absence of any Party or representative who, after due notice, fails to be present or fails to obtain a postponement. An award shall not be based solely on the default of a Party. The Arbitrator shall require the Party who is present to present such evidence as the Arbitrator may require for the making of the award. If the Case Administrator reasonably believes that only one Party is going to attend the hearing, the Arbitrator may receive evidence necessary to render a verdict either by telephone conference or by affidavit.
Guess all the damages that Q thought they’d recoup ( in their kangeroo court where they have NEVER lost an arbitration ) isn’t going to happen. So now the attorneys on both sides will make more $$$ and the media will get even more juicy tidbits to report to the American public. —- They can always take them to court, which I would prefer, as it will provide much more visibility of the tool scam. The people who really DON’T want this to happen are the remaining lying cowardly “kingpins”, especially the IBOAI, because they have the most to lose as more tool scam information is made public.
Seems like Q is really looking out for the current IBOs, huh? Cause we know that their suing Team is really going to keep more IBOs in the company…and make it even easier for those of you that are left to build your biz. —- Yes, they are, for a change. Because, not “cause”, your Elementary school English teacher would be ashamed of you for butchering the language as you do. I am glad Q is protecting their reputation, whether they do it in arbitration or the court system, as they are apparently more than willing to do.
I told you clowns Orrin’s best days were behind him, and it’s downhill from here. It’s coming true, now you’re squealing like a pig. Bacon, anyone?
October 25th, 2007 at 8:02 am
Hi All
Well I just finished reading the text of the newest lawsuit filed by Amway against TEAM.
How Pathetic.
How Sad.
That Amway, a once respected company could behave so childishly.
What a bunch of crybaby whining.
Holy cow.
Heavens to Betsy.
They actually let people sue for stuff like that?
Give me a break.
It seams their main beef is that we personally know people who used to be in our down line back when we were in that business.
It’s true.
We did know them before the business.
And we still know them.
Sometimes we even talk to them.
Now would someone please try to explain to me in simple terms why that is in any way using Amway’s proprietary property?
Oh and another thing.
I bought my ticket to the Louisville Seminar way back in July.
From the attendance of the Ticket holder meeting in July I would say that most people in attendance in Louisville also bought their tickets in July.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:03 am
Jeffrey #10,
Take your lame analogies somewhere else.
Jason #11,
Maybe they’re doing both. Maybe we’ll find out in part 2. Stay tuned.
Brad #12,
Grow up. If you can’t stomach Quixtar protecting their reputation, go outside and play with your toys. And make sure you share with the other kids. Let the grown ups handle this, please.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:17 am
Bridgett #16,
I think what dannie is trying to say is he is an idiot, he’s just too stupid to articulate this thought.
dannie #17,
And just so you know, MY family and friends are NOT proprietary business information…they are MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS !! —- Are you REALLY this stupid?
You think I left because anyone TOLD me what to do ? You don’t know me at all. They don’t make cholerics much more hard headed than this one. NO ONE has made, encouraged, pushed, suggested, called up, emailed, smoke signalled or in any other way influenced my decision to leave Q. —- You’re not choleric, you’re brain dead.
I only had to watch how people I respected were treated and talked about to know what I was going to do….reading the first “Just Go Team” blog pretty well sealed it for me. —- You mean the Orrinite tool scammers?
How can any one bad mouth a leadership that has people who believe in it, and then expect that many, many of us in those LOS would NOT leave. It’s like calling my baby ugly…he may be, but he’s mine and even if I call him that, YOU better not. —- Your “baby” Orrin is beyond ugly, he’s a lying cowardly “kingpin”. A baby doesn’t have a choice of his appearance, but Orrin and Co. had a choice of whether to tool scam their group. They voted “yes”.
Team IS a family. Families stick together. Don’t you people understand that ? Did you really think you could insult, call Orrin names, disparage ( that’s right, you did what you accuse us of doing ) his character and we would still WANT to be a part of you? —- TEAM may be a “family”, but it’s like the hillbillies that marry their sisters. You know, all vertical with no branches (all depth, no width) in the family/Orrinite tree? This produces problems in both cases.
We (the average IBO) did not ask for, nor want this tool scam. We wanted lower prices so our downlines wouldn’t laugh at us when we asked why they didn’t continue to order tools each month. Orrin didn’t attempted to get that. He didn’t. He’s gone and so are you, good riddance.
Get over it, crybabies. —- Who’s the crybaby? Look in the mirror.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:26 am
Jason #18,
More victories for Quixtar. Everyone likes a winner. They will be able to leverage all these legal wins in later PR campaigns. Keep filing those lawsuits across the country you Orrinites, let’s pump up the numbers.
dannie #19,
Get a clue. And a different analogy.
G #20,
Bridgett is getting paid? Hey Moderator, we need to talk….
Now she doesn’t know who she’s “talking to” on a blog? Who is “Greg”?
It’s pretty amazing that in that very document, folks watched a video provided by Corp and then were not able to recite answers to questions contained therein … —- No surprise to me, I’ve seen the Opens and a Seminar. It would take more than a simple video to correct the false teaching the Orrinites provide.
And for that, the corp “determines” they don’t know their sponsor??? —- I don’t think they said this, I think you’re lying, another Orrinite attribute.
Maybe they were dealing with ADHD folks? — And that would be you?
Perhaps they court an ADA (that’s Americans with Disabilities Act, not Amway Distributor Assoc) suit on top of all this? —- I think Orrin should file one, looks like he has plenty of evidence to me.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:36 am
Shaun #21,
The problem is in the Quixtar/Amway terms that say they own everyone you bring into the business. I think that is the unethical thing. Comparing taking customer lists with keeping people you recruited for your “Independent Business” is just plain crazy. —- Many companies have these rules, insurance agents come to mind. There are many other examples, if you are willing to engage your brain for a change.
It looks like Alticor is changing their business opportunity into an employee arrangement compensated on straight commission. I think it’s time they take the “Independent” and “Owner” out of IBO. —- Not even close. I think it’s time they take their qualification requirements above the level of legally retarded, often defined as about a 75 IQ.
AEM #22,
Yes, keep charging. Hey, there’s a cliff over there, why don’t you charge over the edge?
John #23,
How can Quixtar say they have LOS propietary secrets with a straight face? —- How about because they have used this position in numerous court cases and consistently win?
You buy from your self and teach others to do the same. That is it. What is secret about that? —- The “secret” is Quixtar makes that possible.
Oh the secrets are things like the exceedingly poor retention rate; the McKinsey report, the IBOAI’s unanamous vote of no confidence in Quixtar or its proposed name change to Amway, the truth that after 5 years over 95% of recruits drop out). we wouldn’t want the young college kid to know that he can expect 95% of his recruits to quit. Even the great Puryear, Britt and Yager have such a drop out rate. But let’s not tell that secret to the young student or single mom. —- All of the above caused by the tool scam.
Let’s tell them this is the best business in the world and let’s approve kingpins showing them rolexes and mansions. And Quixtar doesn’t even recruit or build downlines - IBOs do. If the IBO is the one who builds his downline, then how is it a Quixtar downline. —- The rolexes and mansions came from the tool scam. Quixtar makes the opportunity available, genius.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:39 am
#29 GirlPower
People believed in Quixtar too…..
October 25th, 2007 at 8:43 am
Thank you Quixtar, after your latest debacle you turned more current IBO’s into anti Quixtar mercenaries. I have received more information from people who want out only because of your unending bully tactics. I hope you understand that people are sick and tired of this, you’ll probably get it after the last of “your property” quits and leaves you with nothing but your legal department. But that’s o.k. cause as you claim victory you can throw one heck of a party with all that stored XS.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:49 am
Jeffrey #10-
Your analogy with the Chevy dealership falls short. Nobody is taking home a Corvette.
Rather, salespeople are keeping their list of business contacts. Big difference.
There is not an enforceable no-compete clause in the country that forces independent salespeople to turn in their list of names.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:54 am
Richard the Kitty Cat #52
So what your saying is, if somebody at one time was with Quixtar and the LOS, we cannot participate with them in events outside of Quixtar? What about a football game? Dinner? A movie? Everybody that went with me was a friend PRIOR to Quixtar. Do I have to stay away from them?
The leadership convention in Louisville was exactly as it says it was, a leadership convention. No business was mentioned, no products were discussed, only great speakers providing information with heart and sole to individuals who want to better themselves. It seems Quixtars latest tactics are a desperate but futile attempt to destroy our constitutional rights, just like the kamikazi in WWII with its futile attempt to hold off the enevitable.
October 25th, 2007 at 9:16 am
#10 Jeffrey: Your analogy is greatly flawed, and everyone is talking about humans as if they are a stapler, how sad. GM won’t allow you to take their physical property, but if I wanted to start another dealership, I could certainly take all the salesman in the dealership that wanted to come along. Besides, just the name switch alone to Amway, and I had to convince no one about coming with us to “Team” Leadership development vision, and the ones who are not coming with us, are not staying with Amway either.
To Dwight Spaulding: You winning liberal, You think it’s bad now, I can’t wait to tell people about Amway is Quixtar and Quixtar is Amway and how much of a pyrimid it is, and how much Amway organizations use the tool pyrimid to make their money. I can’t wait for that. I’m getting ready to join Market America (not really) in six months, but in the mean time, I’ll just keep spreading my “opinion” about you and yours.
I think we should all sue Alticor for all of our gas mileage and time spent on the roads talking to their property. We should sue them for the emotional stress we went through when we lost people and whole legs because Altiocr let certain publicity go unchecked, or lost people cause of their $6.00 monthly checks that they recived after spending $300.00 to 500.00 monthly. We should sue them for changing the rules without representation in an organization that led me to believe I had representation. We should sue them for misleading us to believe that building width is more profitable then building depth, oh it is, but for them not us. We should sue them for terminating Orrin and Chris without due process. Oh well, I guess I’ll just keep blogging.
Bridget: You should just go back to being barefoot and, well you know the rest. To you and all you Team haters, Ever hear of the “Whistle Blowers” Act. It protects people who blow the whistle on “even alleged” illegal activity. Please stop pretending to be stupid, or maybe your pretending to be smart, I can’t really tell, but you are pretending.
October 25th, 2007 at 9:23 am
“(A legal trick like that is like pretending Rich and Jay have nothing to do with our company”
Hey Genius—in case you haven’t heard Jay died several years ago…I just read his obit again,
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/08/obituaries/08andel.html
So tell me how does Jay have anything to do with your company
It seems as though Quixtar/Amway has lost a ton of people and now is trying to grasp at anything to survive. August 8th would have been the time to save your company and yes I meant th 8th the day before your company made the worst decision in the history of AMWAY. By the way since Rich has so much to do with your company I would like to see a post from him concerning the state of affairs.
October 25th, 2007 at 9:27 am
OK Jarad Smith,
My diamond did sit on policy council. I can back up Freedom #43 with other facts. My only question is: Do IBO’s have the right to take legal action agaist TEAM as individuals?
Why? if you have to ask you have not read any of the legal papers from California or Michigan. Especially those summitted by TEAM and or associated persons.
October 25th, 2007 at 9:27 am
Wow lets way this out, 12 pink panthers lying for Amway or 20,000 plus witnesses on behalf of the Team…Amway doesn’t have a chance. The best thing Amway could do is sit very quietly and hope the dust will clear and leave something left.
October 25th, 2007 at 9:28 am
hmmmm……just a thought…..you think maybe the Louisville major shook up Quixtar a bit. The #’s were astounding, speakers amazing, it downright ROCKED and there is nothing Quixtar could do to stop it. So now the temper tantrum starts. Oh by the way………..there is no coercing people as you call it……..they are leaving quixtar/amway (or whatever split personality you are today) on their own free will!! Quick someone give them a bottle before they embarrass themselves and everyone associated with them anymore. Good Luck ABO’S….. you will need it!
October 25th, 2007 at 9:47 am
Francine R aka Warrior Princess in Az: Your thoughts are very much appreciated. However, they are rather lengthy. Would you mind resubmitting a condensed version? Thank you!
Tex: I’m pretty sure G meant something else altogether. Besides, how could we ever pay you? Your participation is priceless
Chris: With all due respect, we are referring to Jay’s legacy. As for your suggestion re: Rich, that’s not a bad idea whatsoever. We posted a couple of videos earlier this year over on the Amway Media Blog that may interest you in the meantime.
driven: Please note that we edited out your reference to the company as “nazi-like” in your above comment. By no means are we trying to censor your thoughts—we have been called every name in the book on this blog—but we are insisting that folks skip the “Nazi” and “Hitler” references altogether, be it to us or anyone else, out of historical respect plain and simple. That said, feel free to criticize us in future posts—just not in a way that might offend an entire culture if at all possible. Thank you for your consideration.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:06 am
#37 wow, dwight spalding agrees with the Q. Stop free speech!!! What a great way to solve problems. Simply complain and expect no one to defend themselves. Thats called a bully mentality. No one fights back against a bully (except me) and when they do the bully cries (complains) to mommy (Q) about how unfair life is.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:19 am
G #24,
By the way, the only document produced to date with these allegations (aka uncorroborated) appears to have been drafted after the now infamous August 9th meeting. How CONVENIENT …—- The termination letter written ON August 9th lists the past violations. You don’t think Orrin would have squealed about this a long time ago if these issues were untrue?
Tom #25,
There’s very little substance on your site.
G #26,
Jeffrey’s link may be in violation of the advertising rules. Why don’t you call Quixtar and find out?
October 25th, 2007 at 10:22 am
#78 Tex,
What ? Can’t find a spelling error in my posts so now we’re going to insult my usage of the language ? Cause why ?
Does anyone else see this guy for the “real person” that he is ? Inside OR outside here ?
U R SEW PATHETIK
Give you something new to make fun of……
October 25th, 2007 at 10:27 am
LisBette #27,
Da–ed if you’re Orrin, da–ed if you’re an Orrinite. This is getting even funnier than I thought possible.
Interfered with non-compete agreements? How? By questioning their validity? —- Go read the CA court decision for your answer.
Interfered with non-solicitation agreements? How? No one has solicited ANYone for any business venture. —- Not according to Quixtar. They made the statement, I believe they have the evidence to back it up….oh wait, they already have the evidence, she testified in the MI court a week or two ago. They probably have even more, just haven’t shown all their cards yet.
WAKE UP–THIS IS WHY PEOPLE HAVE PUT UP BLOGS CRITICIZING YOUR COMPANY!! BECAUSE YOU DESERVE CRITICISM!! YOUR ARE ACTING LIKE MOHRONS! (Misspelling deliberate, Mr. Mohr.) —- The madder we make you Orrinites the better. Not only do you have loose tongues that have already helped Q’s legal case, as Q accumulates the lawsuit wins they can easily overcome the PR issue. Point to their win/loss record, then point to YOUR posts that show WHY you lost. Case closed, let’s move some soap, Mr. Prospect. Of course, if you want some good laughs, we’ll do a search for “LisBette”. Maybe we can put LisBette on “Ditto”, and have one of your posts pop up daily on our computer for entertainment value. Careful not to blow a gasket, LessBrain.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:30 am
Moderator #93
If you are refusing to allow “Hitler” references, why did Girl Power #29 get thru ?
PS…I do, of course, agree that it should not be allowed..were you just snoozing as you moderated ?
October 25th, 2007 at 10:32 am
staythecourse #28,
I read the above and I am confused, maybe someone can help me. —- It because you are staying the course, staythecourse.
Do I now have to terminate all contact with them now that I am no longer an IBO? Do they own them now? —- Please go back to real estate, this is a grown up blog.
How can I steal something that was mine before I started with Quixtar? —- Like what?
What are they referencing here?
“because TEAM has taken proprietary business information from Quixtar that IBOs could be using right now to build Quixtar businesses.” —- Read the lawsuit again. Slowly. Ask your lawyer what it means if you’re still confused, you must have some lawyer friends you use with your real estate business, right?
I left because I have lost respect for Quixtar given the way they are handeling this dispute and second because I will no longer have a business after the switch to Amway. Prior to my resignation I alreay had the IBO’s I signed up tell me they would not renew under the Amway name. —- Bub-bye. Why not, they didn’t sign up under the Quixtar name or even realize they had a contract with Quixtar, it was all TEAM, right? What’s the problem?
Last how can they say that the TEAM is coersing people to follow them and rather than Quixtar. After the first e-mail they sent me after the termination of Woodward and Bradey I knew I was out the door. I just wasn’t sure when. TEAM has helped me grow in character and confidence. I have seen the benifits of the TEAM Leadership program in my personal and professional life. —- Bub-bye. Bye now. Bub-bye.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:39 am
#52 Richard
Ummm, what do you mean nashville? And please, for all adults and anyone else with a high school education, look up the word “prolly” in the dictionary and tell us what you find.
Now for the real work. “don’t steal what you don’t own”? Two problems with that theory. One, how can you steal what you do own? And two, more importantly, why does Q think it owns my moms number? Last I checked, I am allowed to call my mom, all my family, my in-laws (but for the sake of argument, I’ll let Q win on that one), my friends, my co-workers, my schoolmates, the people with whom I had a conventional business, and my neighbors. They can keep the 7 customers they gave me in the last 2 months (all annonymous and 0 pv) and heck even the two customers I signed up who were complete strangers to me before (and only bought the first month). Sounds reasonable doesn’t it?
Two, can you please show me a team los? I’ve never seen or used one, nor heard of one now that I think of it. I don’t need a los to find out where my mom is on my team or to find her adress or phone number. For some odd reason I can remember that stuff. Seems an odd analogy to compare my mom buying stuff from me to a Micky D’s where the customers are rarely related (I’m sure because relatives see what the food is made of and how it tastes).
Three, some of the rules that we “broke” are still not rules. For example, one rule is called the “anticipatory” rule by us now. Q fired several people in anticipation of them doing something. I’d love to go through all of them, but not enough room. Love to get some coffee with you guys and explain all of them though. Thanks gang.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:39 am
GirlPower #29,
Watch the “H” word, the Moderator didn’t like it when I used it (although that could have something to do with using it repeatedly), even though it is an excellent analogy.
LessBrain #30,
Oh by the way, Mr. Mohr, the legal attacks supposedly from Team were actually filed by individuals in an effort to stop Quixtar from harassing downline IBOs, and NOT by Team. —- Yeah, sure they were, and TEAM had NOTHING to do with them. Got some swamp land in Florida? I’m in the market….NOT.
If you will go back and read the complaints (just the first page–shouldn’t be too taxing), you should be able to see that. —- The courts will figure it out, that’s what they’re for. Plus draining Orrin and Co. for every tool scam penny he ever made.
Now how many complaints has Quixtar filed? —- Enough.
And will I be next, Mr. Mohr? C’mon, bring it. —- LessBrain, we could already defeat you “with half our brain tied behind our back, just to make it fair” (copyright Rush Limbaugh), now that we know your real name is LessBrain, it may be considered cruelty to animals. But if you are serious and not just blowing smoke, just supply Quixtar with your name, address, telephone number and amount of money in your bank account.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:41 am
Jerad #31,
Why do you keep suing us if you want us to leave? —- Because “you” damaged us, and now it’s payback time. Don’t pretend I didn’t warn you of this, because I did.
Look, if I got fired from my job I would most certainly take my tools that I bought and brought into work back home with me. Because I used them at work does not make them company property! —- You didn’t bring the business opportunity with you into this business, so you can’t leave with it. You signed a contract. Read it.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:45 am
dannie #32,
You guys think we are drinking “koolaid” and I, for one, am getting tired of being talked to as if I am too stupid or blind to know the difference between right and wrong ! —- We’re not saying “as if” you are stupid, we know you are. You keep proving it with every post, over and over again.
I am intelligent,educated, articulate
(yep…I can spell ALL the big words, Tex ) , self confident and totally capable of determining for MYSELF who is making the smart moves here. —- Go for it, genius.
So get over yourself QUIXTAR….assume ..in fact, BELIEVE IT, that you are dealing with adults who can think for themselves and stop trying to penalize others for something that we are CHOOSING to do all by ourselves. —- Orrin and Co. shouldn’t have picked a fight they couldn’t win. What are you being penalized for, anyway?
GIRL…It’s a business…it’s not a world war OR a flower child cult like following…and we are NOT talking about dictators or mass murders here. Well, maybe dictators. —- Yeah, dictators with the initials of OW and CB.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:47 am
#53 Bridgett
You ended it exactly as we see it. We have no beef with Q perse. We simply see the future of e-commerce very differently. Orrin asked Q if they would fix the prices to go along with our vision of the future. They said yes and did no for several years. When they finally said no and did no, we figured out that we have differences that could not be fixed. One of us has wal-mart in their sites to pass, both in sales and in prices, the other just wants to hang out with the prices getting higher every year. Both ideas will work, but not in the same place.
Thank you for coming up with a civil argument and trying to see our side. That was very refreshing.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:48 am
Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says #93
Screening “Nazi” is pretty selective considering all of the various groups you’ve permitted tex to slur.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:48 am
Bridgett #33,
Have you ever read “Personality Plus” by Florence Littauer? —- Don’t you have to have a personality before you can add to it?
G #34,
They went to where TEAM is incorporated. Besides, they can fly there on their corporate jets, Orrin and Co. have to fly commercial.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:55 am
Bridgett #35,
They aren’t suing you. They are suing TEAM. —- But…but…they’re all a TEAM, remember? One for all and all for one. Charge….
Bridgett #36,
Lawyers get paid like we do, by the word.
I’m sure it has to do with being able to rule one way on part of the lawsuit, and another way on other parts, and the whole thing still make sense. Or something legal like that….
Dwight #37,
I disagree. TEAM has provided very valuable information on this site. Don’t pay attention to Dwight, you Orrinites, everything is fine. Keep posting, please.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:58 am
dannie #38,
The point was (irrespective of WHO we believed in)that Q should not have been surprised at our response to their kicking the heck out of Orrin in print. That original posting “Just Go Team” was absolutely galling, infuriating and designed to raise all our hackles. —- That was the point, if you agreed with Orrin and Co., Quixtar didn’t want you, either.
So keep kicking us,Q. We’ll keep taking it and keep getting back up. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger and if you think we don’t get stronger every time you post your newest drivel, then you should have taken better notes in Louisville. —- You’re gone, now we’re just scavenging the leftovers. In other words, you’re already “dead”, you just don’t realize it yet. I can’t wait to see their notes from Louisville.
Can hardly wait for “Why We Fight…Part 2″ —- Perhaps some of the notes will show up in Part 2.
B-R-R-R-I-I-I-I-I-I-N-N-N-N-G IT ! —- I can almost see the veins sticking out of your neck.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:00 am
#72 bdg “They are your Family and Friends. Until YOU decided to make that relationship a business relationship through the Quixtar business opportunity.”
You mean I lose my family and friends to Q when I got them started? I’ve heard the excuse that people won’t do this because they don’t want to lose their friends, but I thought it was a lame excuse. You mean they were legally accurate? You can keep the in-laws, but my mom? My friend for 20 years? Why don’t you just take my dog too? Wow, must be great kool-aid to truly think like that. Can you please clear up that statement? Or tell people that is exactly what you mean? I’d love to see that posting!!
October 25th, 2007 at 11:01 am
G #39,
They want their performance bonuses back - all of them (besides the ones they didn’t pay due to recent unilateral actions) … and since that would be blatantly illegal, they’ll just go for them another way. —- They also want the big bucks, the tool scam money.
Gotta make an example of anyone who would dare leave the happy kingdom on their terms - now go placidly and eat your Soylent Green (oops, I mean Double X) —- Copied that one down for the next lawsuit, thanks.
What an opportunity we have here … “your business, your way” is actually “your business - you’re dreaming, right?” (sorry Dex) —- Why are you apologizing to Dex? He’s the biggest lying cowardly “kingpin” of them all.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:02 am
93. Alticor Media Blog Administrator
wow that is what i would say is grasping for straws talking about Rich and Jay as if it were todays buisness you were talking about, the truth of the matter is Rich and Jay would not have let this go as far as their kids have, Greed has goten the best of the Amway family
October 25th, 2007 at 11:06 am
Jerad #40,
Bingo. I know, you can sign up next February and Orrin can be YOUR downline, probably in just a short few years.
rnffemt #41/2,
Too late for that, Orrin and Co. started something that has to be corrected.
Here’s what you don’t understand……the very first blog about Team on this website stated, “JUST GO TEAM!!”……now they are trying and you’re going to sue them for it now??? That was in response to Orrin and Co.’s “illegal pyramid” lawsuit.
Forgive you if I’m just a little more than confused…..Is it JUST GO TEAM OR IS IT COME BACK HERE SO I CAN KICK YOU SOME MORE AND THEN YOU MAY LEAVE LIKE YOU WERE TOLD TO DO? —- You are much more than even a lot confused. TEAM is gone, we’re just cleaning up the carcass now.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:13 am
freedom #43,
Expect an e-mail from Quixtar. And thanks.
marc #48,
Non-competes are very common in the business world, your plumber example is a poor analogy.
So do y’all like the new Amway? —- I’m liking it better every day. You quit, right?
jason #11 GOOD POINT!!! can’t believe that thought didn’t immediately occur to me. —- Did you miss #13?
October 25th, 2007 at 11:18 am
S #49,
I don’t know why you guys just don’t fess up!?! From here it looks like you just don’t care about the North American Market. With the name change back to Amway, (against IBOAI approval),…. —- The IBOAI doesn’t approve anything, they make recommendations.
and the way you have handled the TEAM situation, IBO’s don’t have to be told, asked, coerced, cajoled, recruited, or any other form you may think of for resigning. —- Bub-bye.
The many unsubstantiated remarks in your latest lawsuit are laughable. If I didn’t know better, I might think that you are making the Team and Orrin & Chris the perfect scapegoats for your mass exudos from North America. —- Newsflash, you don’t know better. You don’t normally substantiate allegations in a lawsuit, you prove them in the courtroom.
As you have so eloquently stated in your frivolous lawsuit, (i’ll paraphrase) “IBO’s are resigning by the thousands.” This way no class action lawsuit from all of the IBO’s who put their faith in you to build a business based on morals, and character. —- If you think the tool scam is moral, we have very different views of this topic.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:18 am
The word on the street is that Momma Pat’s contract has been terminated.
Momma Pat!?!
So what’s up with that? Pat surely is an effective promoter of the products, corp and the people.
Could it be….the tool scam?
October 25th, 2007 at 11:26 am
dannie: Agreed; we must be consistent. Context is a determining factor, and we’re not trying to whitewash history here. It’s going to be case-by-case. Hope that helps.
toomuchtex: We have asked more than one person to tone things down a tad—Tex included. We sincerely appreciate everybody’s participation, as well as your desire to keep the discourse civil and intellectual.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:27 am
Fig #63,
The Jerry and Mandy article demonstrates the same termination process that the U.S. Diamonds received. Abrupt and without cause. —- Let’s see, do you call “abrupt” more than 6 years? How about keeping a tool ordering site working AFTER being told to take them all down, and don’t sell tools in any other manner, either? Do you consider the issues in the termination letter and the things I saw at Opens and a Seminar “without cause”? You are blind, stupid, or both.
I’m staying tuned to these blogs just to see who gets burned next. It looks like they are methodically getting rid of the highest paid people to balance a budget of some sort. I think Dexter is safe and so is Jody Victor, but there is still targets on the radar!! —- Dex and Jody should be the next targets, in my opinion.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:32 am
amazed #64,
When people do not learn from events in history, they repeat themselves. —- Yes, but you used a poor example. Try reading up on the scandals at Enron, MCI, Adelphia, Tyco, etc., and you’ll have better analogies when it comes to the tool scams.
When a leader lacks character, he or she is nothing short of a manipulator. Time is on the side of the leader with character, and will prove the truth. —- That’s why Orrin is gone.
My friends in both Amway and TEAM, lets not waste any more of our time reading the “internet bathroom walls”, but rather invest it making a positive difference in the the world. —- After the lawsuits are won.
I stand for truth and Gods unconditional Love for mankind; sure, I have shown my disappointment with the abuses of the legal system and have poked fun to make points, but in the end it is love that we all need. With real love, comes respect… you cannot truly have one without the other. —- So do I, but Quixtar will finish what Orrin started, despite your pleas for mercy.
To all who read this; you are a unique creation with a perfect purpose in life. Search for that purpose and spend the rest of your life running towards it full speed! —- Thanks, that’s exactly what I’m doing, putting a bright light on all the tool scams.
I hope that the fighting ends, and that there is a peaceful resolution before the economic engine, that many families depend on, is completely halted! —- I agree, as long as you don’t start another scam like the TEAM tool scam.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:36 am
AEM #65,
August 9th, and the dates listed go back to 2001. What’s your point?
John #66,
Accreditation is optional. The new deal is you can’t get QBI bonuses if not accredited, but the accreditation does little for the typical IBO, especially when it comes to knowing about the tool scam.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:42 am
timeandmoney #68,
Bub-bye.
cmon.people.think #69,
What kind of idiotic claim that TEAM members don’t know where XS comes from? Duh, you can only order it from Quixtar, so obviously everyone knew they didn’t buy it from TEAM, especially if they were on Ditto, which is ONLY available at Quixtar. Boy, isn’t it disgusting to finally realize that Quixtar thinks their IBOs are all stupid morons? —- Too bad TEAM IBO’s failed the test after watching the video.
And that prayer for relief? They want Team to not talk about Quixtar in their meetings? Um, they’re way late on that one. No one is talking about them anymore. Now that they’ve shown their true colors, there’s nothing for anyone to say about Quixtar in connection with leadership and personal development ever again. —- Except in the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit and various blogs.
Oh— and WAAHHH, poor, poor Quixtar. They want TEAM to stop “calling Quixtar’s pricing ‘horrible’ and stating that the ‘people cannot sell’ Quixtar product”. Well, since I’m not a party to this really lame lawsuit, I’m not going to stop saying it. The pricing IS HORRIBLE. Quixtar knows it, and if they don’t like people finding that out, well then they can just go fix it by changing their prices. Does it really take yet another lawsuit? —- Changes started happening way before Orrin and Co. got terminated, and will probably continue. Apparently, it does take another lawsuit.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:44 am
cmon.people.think #69,
Here’s another thought: The reason it probably takes another lawsuit is because the tool company isn’t able to be a defendant in arbitration, since it isn’t an IBO. However, the court system can and should be used for the purpose of extracting maximum funds from Orrin and Co. Have a nice day.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:50 am
Jeffrey #10
Good post. It blows me away how so many on this board think they can do anything they want to, regardless of contract terms. I liken it to working for a company, developing a client base, then leaving and trying to steal that client base away (that the company paid you to develop). And then being surprised and offended that the comapny takes action to stop this pirating of their business.
bdg #72
Very well said. Unfortunately, too many on this blog refuse to look at these proceedings from a legal point of view and will continue to dismiss your legal and logical perspective.
MichMan #86
Oh really? So a business that employs a salesperson through a contract has no right to that salespersons sales list? Right!
October 25th, 2007 at 11:50 am
Rick #75,
Those are ideas. Do you have any good ideas?
bill #79,
We’ll see how Pathetic, How Sad childish, crybaby whining, etc., the lawsuit is when it gets to court. However, Orrin’s track record isn’t very good.
Yes, they actually let people sue for protecting their reputation. Give me a break.
You need to read your contract.
You bought your tickets in July, which is why the judge said KY was okay. However, that excuse is GONE for the next function.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:53 am
How dare q/a insinuate I don’t have a brain in my head! And to then use that to form the basis of yet another lawsuit (#2 under Introduction)! I have resigned my business and am waiting out my 6 months in pergatory. No one told me to resign; no one suggested I resign. Quixtar CONVINCED me to resign through their postings on this blog and others, and by their actions. Oh, and no one from TEAM has mentioned another MLM to me either. What ARE they (q/a) smokin’?
October 25th, 2007 at 11:55 am
Thunderdunce #84/7,
There are people that still do believe in Quixtar. But only the ones with brains.
So what your saying is, if somebody at one time was with Quixtar and the LOS, we cannot participate with them in events outside of Quixtar? What about a football game? Dinner? A movie? Everybody that went with me was a friend PRIOR to Quixtar. Do I have to stay away from them? —-No, you idiot. You can do those things, you can’t promote another business to them. Haven’t we been over this many many times before?
The leadership convention in Louisville was exactly as it says it was, a leadership convention. No business was mentioned, no products were discussed, only great speakers providing information with heart and sole to individuals who want to better themselves. It seems Quixtars latest tactics are a desperate but futile attempt to destroy our constitutional rights, just like the kamikazi in WWII with its futile attempt to hold off the enevitable. —- That should get a lot of new prospects interested. No business. No products.
By the way, a “sole” is the bottom of a shoe (like the one I wouldn’t mind giving all Orrinites on their backsides), whereas a “soul” is what you intended to say.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
john jay franklin #109
There is a significant difference between a personal relationship and a business relationship. Clearly Quixtar is protecting the business relationships that have been established, as they have a right (I would argue obligation when viewed from other IBO’s points of view) to do. This whole emotional “I’m not property”, “I’m not owned” and “My family, my friends, the people I showed the business to are my property, not Amways” arguments are silly. Entertaining, but silly.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
to Freedom #57,
I too had believed in this business for the past 11 years, and that is all in the toilet, and that has nothing to do with Team. Quixtar/Amway is totally resposible for my resingnation. At first I was questioning all of this but as time has gone by I realize that Quixtar/Amway has become the most unethical business I know. It is disgusting what they are trying to pull. Yes, I thought this was the best business opportuniy out there but I WAS LIED to.
The best form of advertising is word of mouth, at first I was not going to say anything when people asked me about this but NOW I am going to TELL them how despicable and dishonest the Amway Corporation has become… and they will tell two friends and so on and so on and so on… guess what, YOU AMWAY brought this all on yourselves!!!!!!!!
October 25th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
#104 john jay franklin said, “Thank you for coming up with a civil argument and trying to see our side. That was very refreshing.”
To be clear, I can accept that Orrin and Co. do not agree with Quixtar. What I cannot accept is the manner in which Orrin chose to disagree.
Unacceptable, unethical, immoral, and despicable.
And that fact that you all are his followers is pathetic. Very sad. Very desperate on your part.
After reading the transcript with the convoluted TEAM structure, all the tool money, and Melissa Seeback’s testimony , it is just sickening.
http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Quixtar-v-Woodward-Contempt-Hearing-10-16-2007.PDF
October 25th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
#37 rdknyvr Retailing isn’t distracting me from building sponsoring part of my biz. It’s this Blog.
After taking a long time to read the transcript from Woodward’s Contempt Hearing, I have to say that I leave this in Quixtar’s hands.
It’s all so depressing and sad to see the harm that the leaders of TEAM have done and CONTINUE to do.
It’s just too upseting for me to read anymore…
October 25th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
john #94,
The “bully mentality” you refer to has been used at the freetheibo forum, the IBOAI forum, and several others, not here.
dannie #96/8,
I could probably find several spelling errors. Why? To get under your skin. You don’t have to try to give me something new to make fun of, what comes naturally is more than enough. Also, there are different Moderators, and they all make “mistakes”, especially in favor of their paid bloggers.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
john #100/4,
TEAM assigned another number to each IBO on their site, an obvious reason would be they expected to start their own MLM. They didn’t advertise the LOS chart, but they did make the bonehead mistake of showing the number.
It isn’t quite as simple as “going different directions”. There are rule violations for the past 6 years, wanting to break more on their way out, filing an “illegal pyramid” lawsuit, fueling the negative blogs, filing numerous other lawsuits, etc., that need to be dealt with.
toomuchtex #105,
Like who?
Chris #111/5,
The truth of the matter is if Rich had followed through on his Directly Speaking tapes, we wouldn’t have the tool scam in the first place.
I think she’s been gone for at least a couple of years, but you were too busy sucking down the XS and energy bars to pay any attention.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
great take on “this” lawsuit
http://qssr.blogspot.com/
October 25th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Tex -
If there was “proprietary data” involved (ie, business volume & buying patterns) there might be some creedence. But, names?
You suggest many “cases” based on proprietary LOS have prevailed. My recollection is, what often prevails is the enforcement of arbitration. You reciting arbitrations (with their sealed results) or the real McCoy litigation with impartial judge & jury of peers? You sugges the latter, so do tell … that would be a great service to all.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
I RESIGNED FROM QUIXTAR BECAUSE OF THEIR UNPROFESSIONAL MANNER. IN NO WAY WAS I ENCOURAGED TO DO SO BY ANYONE ASSOCIATED WITH TEAM. GET REAL QUIXTAR, YOUR SHIP IS SINKING.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Hey scAmway:
How about some cheese with that WHINE?
You can file, and keep filing lawsuits until you’re blue in the face. Here’s the thing. I resigned my Q/A business, of MY OWN FREE WILL! No one encouraged, suggested, or “recruited” me. And there’s only ONE scenario under which I might return to your sorry excuse for a company. That would be about 3 days after you-know-where freezes over. When my 6 month non-compete is expired, I, along with about 20,000 of my friends are moving on. Why don’t you let it go and do the same?
October 25th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
This is so ridiculous! Thanks big Q/A cause this just makes TEAM tighter, stronger and fans the fire! B-B-B-B-R-R-R-R-I-I-I-N-N-N-G-G-G-G-G IT!!!!!!! And let’s just repeat what the judge in Michigan said about Orrin:
“Testimony we received here from the named defendants, and I’ll relate primarily to Mr. Woodward, I have to say that Mr. Woodward, with his extensive engineering education, impressive education, if you will,
and other things that he has done in his life, I think there was some comment by someone here about an engineer not having people skills or whatever, some allegation, I’m not sure it was Mr. Woodward when he was testifying who came up with it, but the bottom line is this. Mr. Woodward is a very talented person. Part of that talent, I suspect, is, in much the same way the principals of Amway, Quixtar, Alticor, whatever the case may be, have been able to influence people in a variety of ways, through the ability to communicate in a way that people understand and appreciate. And quite honestly, listening to Mr. Woodward here today, or yesterday, whenever it was he testified, he did a good job testifying. If he was lying, if he’s being deceptive, he’s deserving of an Academy Award for it.
Some of the things that were particularly impressive, I think, was the fact that he didn’t get into arguments with lawyers, he seemed to acknowledge things that were there to be acknowledged. He seemed, in my mind at least, to try to be factual and honest in his answers. Why? Is it because that’s the type of person he is? Is it because he has a sense of religion, it’s important? I don’t know. Is it because he’s a great actor? I don’t know. But I think the value of this hearing can be demonstrated, at least in some degree, simply by that one witness. And I don’t mean to pick him out as the only
1 witness. I felt the witnesses on both sides, by and large,were very credible witnesses. The first witness presented by the plaintiffs, I felt he was very credible.”
I am a proud member of TEAM!!!
October 25th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
#126 BK says– This whole emotional “I’m not property”, “I’m not owned” and “My family, my friends, the people I showed the business to are my property, not Amways” arguments are silly. Entertaining, but silly.
First, I never said they are my property, just not Q’s. Second, how can it be silly and entertaining when that is my whole team?
October 25th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
What a waste of time and money your lawsuit is. TEAM sells books and CDS–leadership development. Now you might as well sue Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and John Maxwell also.
I resigned from your company because of your outrageous prices, the ridiculous name change, and the horrible way you treated me and my downline in your threatening emails and inappropriate blogs.
What a joke–a very expensive joke.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
This is too funny. Thanks Q for all the laughs.
First, I must have been at the wrong function last weekend because I missed the announcement of the new mlm. I though, “Ok, must have been when I was in the restroom”. Well I recorded the whole function (sorry TEAM just wanted to listen to it over and over again) even when I went to the restroom and nope not on any audio file…hmmm? Oh well, it must have happened because Q would NEVER LIE. I’ll have to ask my upline about the new mlm so I can find out the details so when I’m free I can join it.
In less than 120 days Team leaders are free and the rest of us are following. By July 1, 2008 (those that just don’t renew) we will all be free….can’t wait. Don’t worry about that 2-year clause, Q/A is doing enough for my downline that I couldn’t solicite this good. My downline will be running as fast aa they can on their own will. Thanks again Q.
In the words of Tex, “Buh-bye Quixtar, Amway aka Liars and Thieves Buh-bye”
October 25th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Bridgett,
Hang in there kiddo! Don’t let them get to you. One of them (#88 Kent Blume) even called me a winning liberal. Too bad he can’t spell whining! And he is sooo wrong. I am so Conservitive that I make Rush look like someone from the Left.
I have decided to just skim through these blogs and look for ‘interesting’ posts and ignore the rest.
October 25th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
B-B-B-B-R-R-R-R-I-I-I-N-N-N-G-G-G-G-G IT!!!!!!!
October 25th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
Anybody want to read some really good creative writting? Read the suit Alticor filed. I can totally see now why Tex and Bridgett are so confused about Team. If my main source of information about Team came from Alticor I’d be confused to.
October 25th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Lone Star State, while the “@#$%” keys are a step up from the spelled-out words, we still won’t publish language like that. You’re welcome to clean it up, tone it down and try again.
October 25th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
bhansen #134,
Bernice? Bub-bye.
Former Ohio IBO #135,
They’ll let go eventually. But for now, the squeeze is on.
Shannon #136,
Any of the lying cowardly “kingpins” would have looked good on the stand, that is part of their grooming to get to the position they “achieved”. They lie every night they show the plan, lots of practice.
john #137,
Because it is a stupid statement in the first place.
just_the_facts #138,
Bub-bye.
October 25th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
Steve #139,
Don’t worry, Quixtar probably recorded it as well.
Don’t bet on Orrin being able to start a new “deal” for much longer than the standard 6 months.
AEM #142,
Most of my information about TEAM comes from several Opens and a Seminar, not A/Q.
October 25th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
Alticor,
When will you understand that you are the reason people are leaving Quixtar? You told us you didn’t want us by the title of the blog “Just Go, Team.” That tells us to go and you don’t want us around. You are acting like someone that shot himself in the foot and then trues to sue the gun manufacturer.
October 25th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Hey, #37 Dwight Spaulding, The plain fact is that Alticor/Amway/Quixtar has tried to stick it to everyone in the business TEAM or not, that includes you. I guess that they have already brain washed you to the point that you cannot see it. The Mayo Clinic has a great Psychology department, maybe you should seek help.
So if you really want to be free and be a true IBO then come join the TEAM.
Truly
Exceptional
And
More
October 25th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Tex,
How can you defend Quixtar knowing that they have allowed the tool scam to thrive all these years? I don’t understand your logic at all. The tool scam couldn’t exist without the Quixtar business and vice versa. So please enlighten me as to why you persist. I think they are ALL a bunch of crooks and they are using you as a little pawn in their game to milk even more money out of people including you. What was your PV last month? And your bonus check? And how long have you been in? And how much did you say your net income was last year? Is this a hobby or a business for you? Wake up! Your a little, little pawn!!!
Don’t talk to me unless you answer my questions.
October 25th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Bridgett #129
If you read the whole transcript, did you not notice the judges statement that he tho’t ( at least up to this point ) that he would probably rule that Orrin was not in contempt ?
What additional harm ( coming from Team )did you see in that suit ? Except that your corporation wants to keep this in the public eye for the business to be ridiculed even further. Hard for me to understand why they would do that, after being so upset that Team had made such a “public” sight of it all.
Does this not also make you sad ? The fact that the judge doesn’t seem to agree with Qs postiton ? That Q brought a suit that is probably not worth the paper it’s written on ?
This is the same judge that issued the order, correct ? The one that everyone on Qs side agreed was brilliant just a few weeks ago ?
I agree that this is depressing. I think many of us are truly wanting to just get on with our lives.
The best to you as well, Bridgett. I really do hope that your business prospers. No matter how opposed we are in this dispute, I would hope that there is no personal animosity, but rather a difference in how we view the direction we take & how we hope to better our futures.
Personally, I would have wished that none of this would have ever had to happen….for all our sakes. I could have easily waited the 6 mos( going to anyway ) and no one would have been as hurt as many, many people have been. I just know that a 6 month sit out for many Team people will be devastating.
PS…Tex…please allow me ( upfront ) to let you laugh at me now for any improper language usage, typos, misspelled words and/or the “soft” PR campaign that I’m sure you think I just used on Bridgette. I know you don’t buy it. Thanks be to God, I’m not trying to sell it.
October 25th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Dannie #19: Yes, you paid for the inventory (SA8, XS, or cars and replacement parts, etc.), but you didn’t “pay” for your downline. You paid the price in time and effort, but you didn’t “buy” them from the company.
When I gave notice that I was quitting the janitorial company I was working for and the account that I had been cleaning wanted to hire me directly (for the same price they were paying the company I had been working for), the first words out of the Operation Manager’s mouth were, “Did you sign a non-compete clause with them? If so, I cannot hire you.” I did not, so he could hire me. If I had, I would have had to wait until it expired. I’ll bet that company has one now. That one account pays over $12,000 a year.
Orrin and Chris signed a non-compete clause and they are bound by it, like it or not. Of course, there will always be people that think the rules don’t apply to them.
If you don’t like the rules of this business, see ya. Don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
I want to know why the owners of Amway, Quxitar, Alitcor or any other company that you create and try to hid behind are playing these stupid games. You call yourselves so call christians but yet you are willing to hurt thousands if not hundreds of thousands of families by becoming a communist type business. Yet in one video clip Mr. DeVos said if someone wants to leave and take the principles of building a business like Amway that you would welcome that because of the free enterprise country that we live in. What in the world happen to honoring those words. If I remember right in the 10 commandments Thou Shall Not LIE!! If you keep dragging this along like you are then you’ll have to be judge by the almighty and I hope you will be prepared because you can’t hide behind lawyers when that time comes.
WE WILL BE FREE ENTERPRISE PEOPLE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER!
“You come against me with sword and spear and javelin, but I come against you in the name of the LORD Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Spartacus for Governor!
October 25th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
After reading the suit filed and the topic as posted by Alticor above; I just thought a couple of points should be mentioned here.
1. “If you leave your place of work today, you would leave behind your tools and information so that those who remain can carry on the business. You can’t help yourself to your computer, the stapler, the coffeemaker—or the company’s customer list.”
– If you are a business owner who creates a customer base that is used to create volume for a business that you have a compensation agreement with:
* The tools you use for your business are… YOURS! Not the property of the business that pays you for the volume created.
* The information on how you created the volume is YOUR Intellectual Property, not the company that pays you for the volume created.
* You CAN help yourself to YOUR computer, its YOURS; Your stapler is YOURS, Your coffee maker is YOURS, and Your Customer list is YOURS!
One test for ownership of intellectual property is the entity that “architected” the “property”.
The word “architect” (Latin: architectus) derives from the Greek arkhitekton (arkhi (chief) + tekton (builder).
Who would be considered the “chief builder” of, say, a Diamond IBO’s business? This is the question that seems to need an answer from the court!
– How many hours has Alticor dedicated to the architecture of “Double X”? I am certain that there were many! Also, I am certain that Alticor paid for many miles to be traveled for the development of the products.
– How many hours has Alticor dedicated to the architecture of any IBOs organization? Did Alticor pay for the time and miles required to build any organization?
TEAM or not, I believe it is obvious that the “structure” of the LOS is actually NOT architected by Alticor at all. In fact, the LOS should be defined as Intellectual Property of each and every Platinum IBO or above; individually.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
I apologize for the lack of structure in the above post; I should have prepared it and pasted it in, rather than typing it directly into the forum text box.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Hey Guys,
Seriously, things are going awesome and the new model is picking up steam. If I were you I would go find another LOA or Team to jump on to build your business. This TEAM Stuff is like a soap opera. Other Teams have figured things out and are running smooth. Hope you jump on board. If you sink with Team remeber Quixtar and Amway will still be going. Then what? I have looked at everything else. We all know this is the best model and it just got better. If not have fun selling some juice or bad gas pills. We are praying this stuff ends soon.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
History teaches us that quite often regardless of moral or ethical based claims that some seem to think that might is right. And almost always we call them evil empires. In my opinion this is just another example, QUIXTAR/AMWAY as the great Moses once said, let my people go!! To all the honest IBO’s that got in the way im personally sorry that it took a situation like this to show the true character of your business leaders, but its better late than never.
Zachary Lewetag
October 25th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Lajinito #146,
It was an IQ test. You failed. Bub-bye.
Lone Star State #147,
How did Q try to stick it to me? The $60 million in extra bonuses? The free shipping for new IBO’s and customers? The new competitively priced products? The millions being spent on advertising? If that is sticking it to me, I want to be a pin cushion when I grow up.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
#84 Thunderstruck:
People still believe in Quixtar. It’s business as usual everyday. Most people don’t know anything about this whole team debacle. In fact, some groups have never even heard of team. Does that put things in perspective for ya?
#87 Thunderstruck:
No one is sayng you can’t associate w/your friends & family. (You didn’t really think that’s what they meant, did you? Or were you just grabbing at strings of stupidity?)
What they’re saying is that you can’t try to sway your friends away from Q and towards another MLM.
Honestly? I can find better things to talk about w/my friends and family than this whole team fiasco. Are you really that limited on topics to talk about?
#89 Chris:
Duh.
#91 Chris:
20,000 witnesses to what? Witnesses that say that Q had rules and y’ll waa-waaed and tried to ignore them? Q has been down this road before w/better than the likes of team.
Sorry.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:29 pm
Niki #148,
How can you defend Quixtar knowing that they have allowed the tool scam to thrive all these years? I don’t understand your logic at all. —- I don’t defend their acts of omission, I have criticized them many times. However, I think the acts of commission the lying cowardly “kingpins” have done are much worse. I believe in the business concept, have invested a lot of my time, effort, and money in this business, don’t want to see a lot of unemployed people in the state with the worst economy in the U.S., don’t think I can defeat a huge corporation by joinnng one of the many voices who want the defeat of both A/Q and the “kingpins”… is that enough?
The tool scam couldn’t exist without the Quixtar business and vice versa. —- I think Quixtar could exist without the tool scam, but not vice versa.
So please enlighten me as to why you persist. —- As I have stated before, I don’t want the scamming of millions of former and current Distributors/IBO’s over several decades to the tune of hundred of millions to billions of dollars to continue. Isn’t that enough reason for you?
I think they are ALL a bunch of crooks and they are using you as a little pawn in their game to milk even more money out of people including you. —- You think wrong.
What was your PV last month? And your bonus check? And how long have you been in? And how much did you say your net income was last year? —- None of your business, both literally and figuratively. I have gone on record as telling you when I reach the Platinum level.
Is this a hobby or a business for you? Wake up! Your a little, little pawn!!! —- This blog is a hobby the A/Q part is a business.
Don’t talk to me unless you answer my questions. —- How’s THAT, Niki?
October 25th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
dannie #149,
If you read the whole transcript, did you not notice the judges statement that he tho’t ( at least up to this point ) that he would probably rule that Orrin was not in contempt ? —- Point?
What additional harm ( coming from Team )did you see in that suit ? Except that your corporation wants to keep this in the public eye for the business to be ridiculed even further. Hard for me to understand why they would do that, after being so upset that Team had made such a “public” sight of it all. —- Q viewed the KY event as a recruiting event. It’s public already, Q is now out for their pound of flesh.
Does this not also make you sad ? The fact that the judge doesn’t seem to agree with Qs postiton ? That Q brought a suit that is probably not worth the paper it’s written on ? —- No, because it laid the ground work to shut down the next event. It’s obvious TEAM can’t use the same excuse they did for this one to win the case, the tickets for the February 2008 event were purchased well AFTER August 9th.
This is the same judge that issued the order, correct ? The one that everyone on Qs side agreed was brilliant just a few weeks ago ? —- I think it shows the judge is neutral and making the best decisions they can based on their interpretation of the evidence.
I agree that this is depressing. I think many of us are truly wanting to just get on with our lives. —- I think it’s great.
The best to you as well, Bridgett. I really do hope that your business prospers. No matter how opposed we are in this dispute, I would hope that there is no personal animosity, but rather a difference in how we view the direction we take & how we hope to better our futures. —- I hope what you do prospers as well, as long as it isn’t another Orrinite scam.
Personally, I would have wished that none of this would have ever had to happen….for all our sakes. I could have easily waited the 6 mos( going to anyway ) and no one would have been as hurt as many, many people have been. I just know that a 6 month sit out for many Team people will be devastating. —- Personally, I’m glad it happened, there is now fresh evidence of the tool scam.
PS…Tex…please allow me ( upfront ) to let you laugh at me now for any improper language usage, typos, misspelled words and/or the “soft” PR campaign that I’m sure you think I just used on Bridgette. I know you don’t buy it. Thanks be to God, I’m not trying to sell it. —- I don’t think Bridgett buys it either.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Jeffrey #150,
Jeffrey, you naughty boy. “If you don’t like the rules of this business, see ya. Don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.” I haven’t heard it put that way before, I’ll file that one away for future use.
YOU LOSE WE WIN #151,
I want to know why the owners of Amway, Quxitar, Alitcor or any other company that you create and try to hid behind are playing these stupid games. —- What stupid games, Orrin is the one who broke the rules and started the lawsuits.
You call yourselves so call christians but yet you are willing to hurt thousands if not hundreds of thousands of families by becoming a communist type business. —- What’s Communist about lawsuits, that’s pure Americana. In the USSR they would just kill you.
Yet in one video clip Mr. DeVos said if someone wants to leave and take the principles of building a business like Amway that you would welcome that because of the free enterprise country that we live in. What in the world happen to honoring those words. —- He meant what he said, but you still have to follow the rules on your way out, knucklehead.
If I remember right in the 10 commandments Thou Shall Not LIE!! If you keep dragging this along like you are then you’ll have to be judge by the almighty and I hope you will be prepared because you can’t hide behind lawyers when that time comes. —- Make sure the lying cowardly “kingpins” know this one, I hope they learn how to tap dance before they see St. Peter. Or enjoy really really warm weather.
WE WILL BE FREE ENTERPRISE PEOPLE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER! —- It’s the other.
“You come against me with sword and spear and javelin, but I come against you in the name of the LORD Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. —- You best turn around and check out your “God”, because he’s red, has two little horns, and a pitchfork.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
Jeffery 150 says
Orrin and Chris signed a non-compete clause and they are bound by it, like it or not. Of course, there will always be people that think the rules don’t apply to them.
Actually it is more accurate to say
Orrin and Chris signed up for auto renewal which states that you are bound by the rules of conduct, and that such rules of conduct can be modified without notice, and at some point in 2003 a non-compete clause was added to those rules of conduct, and legally they may or may not be bound by it, because the manor that this rule was slipped in is questionable at best.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Administrator,
I thought is was a violation of rules/court order for TEAM to try to solicit Q IBO’s to resign and join TEAM!
Look at Lone Star State’s Post # 147. “So if you really want to be free and be a true IBO then come join the TEAM”.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
IBO To Go #152,
Spartacus for Governor! —- He’s dead, but may be able to do a better job than the current Governor.
amazed #153,
You need to read Jeffrey’s story #150, and get a clue.
TJ #155,
It will end soon, but not soon enough for Orrin and Co. and his Orrinites.
Zachary Lewetag #156,
History teaches us that quite often regardless of moral or ethical based claims that some seem to think that might is right. And almost always we call them evil empires. —- History also teaches us that if you break a contract you’ll get punished.
In my opinion this is just another example, QUIXTAR/AMWAY as the great Moses once said, let my people go!! To all the honest IBO’s that got in the way im personally sorry that it took a situation like this to show the true character of your business leaders, but its better late than never. —- A/Q will gladly let you go, right after you pay for what Orrin and Co. did.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Corporate Communications,
The one paragraph that struck me was this:
“If you leave your place of work today, you would leave behind your tools and information so that those who remain can carry on the business. You can’t help yourself to your computer, the stapler, the coffeemaker—or the company’s customer list.”
If someone was to work in a sales force & had existing clients PRIOR to entering said sales force (i.e. friends/family) and solicited them as customer/clients, then when they leave, they are also entitled to take them when they leave.
Now the rules mentioned that seem to be the crux of this matter are certainly important to note - non compete and non solicit. Since TEAM was selling BSM/SM books and CDs prior to Alticor/Quixtar selling books and CDs (for whatever purpose, its a free country) - would TEAM then take suit against Alticor/Quixtar because they’re now competing and thats ‘not fair’?
It is my belief that until proper EVIDENCE is presented (not info & believe, thats legally CIRCUMSTANTIAL at best), that Alticor should perform their due diligence and actually investigate their claims PRIOR to airing them to the world at large. If this blog is meant to be a CORPORATE representation, then it should not take the polarizing stance it has.
As far as not willing to arbitrate, I am unaware of any public or private statement that TEAM or Woodward/Brady et al are unwilling to arbitrate.
It was my ‘belief’, as you say, that after the court case in California, the plaintiffs were COMPELLED to arbitrate and were in process of doing so. That is what makes the ‘blogger’ case and the ‘TEAM office’ case so surprising to me. People who enter arbitration should not be gunslinging court cases at eachother, as that defeats the purpose of even arbitrating.
Since the POSTMA MEMO, I believe Amway/Quixtar/Alticor do not think the ‘business owners’ that aligned themselves to become ‘the IBOs’ have enough self-awareness to make decisions for themselves and are a communist collective, waiting for the whim-and-will of a leader before making any decisions. THIS JUST IN - Americans can and will think for themselves and act accordingly!
By the way, my legal disclaimer:
I, Benjamin Eibert, of sound mind and body, do here attest to the above was prepared and written by my own self with no coercion, advice, or pressure from any person, organization or entity. I make no financial gain by expressing my opinions as a free American, but I feel patriotic in exercising my RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH while it still is a right in this great land of opportunity!
October 25th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Bridgett #129, that’s what I meant… this blog will suck up time from business building. I think ajgannon made a good point on IBOFightBack’s site when he suggested that most of the people posting here are enjoying the slinging even though they protest to the contrary. And the handful of TEAM regulars posting here will not be convinced by ANY evidence to the contrary, although I suppose there is reason for Quixtar supporters to post if only to get some ‘factuality’ on the record.
One key point… the legal actions launched by Alticor will have ZERO negative impact on what the vast majority of Americans (and Canadians) think of the company. Zero damage. After the CA suit got tossed, that’s all people need to put it in perspective. And the rest is just protecting and cleaning up the business. This just doesn’t have staying power on the public’s radar even when it does make national news, unlike those in Team for whom it is everything.
Will, or are, Quixtar’s NA revenues taking a dip this fall? Probably. Did Alticor/Quixtar foresee that likelihood and accept it as a necessary consequence, and part of the process of cleaning things up? Without a doubt, IMO. This is part of a “correction” in the best sense of the word, and it’s going to make business building — real business building — much more effective going forward.
Jeffrey, loved your lines, you’ve got a great attitude!!! LOL
October 25th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
To all of you, with the exception of Pink Panther, not only did we fill up freedom hall, but the overflow was another arena that was pretty full as well. Maybe you didn’t hear me - the overflow was an arena. Most of us left by choice because we want to be men and women of integrity and character, God-fearing leaders, financially successful, and heroes to our children. So when we say B-B-B-B-B-B-B-R-R-R-R-R-I-I-I-I-N-N-N-G-G-G-G it, we have nothing to fear. We are striving to move on and do right.
October 25th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
TJ says: “the new model is picking up steam”
The new ‘model’ is simple.
Lose half of the distributors and get the other half to sell more product.
AQA has has the same amount of volume with fewer people and thus fewer ‘people problems.’
October 25th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Tex, I used to think you were a good buy. You have never built the business and you never will. Go get something else to do.
October 25th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
alticor is claiming what is morally and ethically correct?????!!!!!!! Oh my! Spare me!
October 25th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Your line of sponsorship is not your property, I don’t care if it’s your monther. That’s standard business practice, in this business or out of it.
October 25th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
rdknyvr,
Just making a very brief visit to check in on some friends from www.ttaa.com. Thanks for the reference to my comment. Thanks for helping us focus on what’s most important.
Bridgett,
Take heart. rdknyvr’s right on!
October 25th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
#166 rdknyvr said, “One key point… the legal actions launched by Alticor will have ZERO negative impact on what the vast majority of Americans (and Canadians) think of the company. Zero damage.”
I agree. I stopped commenting(in order to defend with FACTS), when I realized this.
Then it become a matter of trying to “save” these poor people.
But after today, I have come to your same conclusion: “the handful of TEAM regulars posting here will not be convinced by ANY evidence to the contrary.”
Not only will they not allow themselves to see the truth, they are getting “wonkier” (to use GirlPower’s word) by the thread!
I’m un-bookmarking this site.
October 25th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
#157 Tex
Just go, Tex
October 25th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Tex, your answers are not satisfactory for me and your logic is flawed - you’re a little, little pawn in a game of greed. I asked you how much PV you did do last month? How much money are you making? Quixtar with or without the tools doesn’t work! Your upline diamond and the corporation are the only ones making money. Can you say pyramid? Over the course of your time in the business, who is better off financially: you, your upline diamond, the corporation? I know its not you. Face the facts! You can’t make it work so you’re blaming the tool scam when you and Quixtar both enable it. The business is a hobby for you otherwise you’d be making money on something you spend so much time on. Better be careful the IRS will find out and disallow your deductions! You’re a little, little pawn! Face it!
October 25th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
I read your law suit versus TEAM. How do you guys sleep at night? What competing MLM are you talking about? What are you talking about….. period.
Also, I saw your alegations… where are the exhibits?
Greed is your problem.
October 25th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
Alticor Media Blog Administrator #116
You allowed tex to slur latinos; people were offended-you said and did nothing.
You allowed tex to slur the handicaped; same response.
You permit tex to offend in virtually every post. You engage him in warm banter.
To confirm that you are allowing one individual to offend entire groups of people, I suggest you re-read the many responses from the people who have been offended.
You permit tex to insult people he has never met and rant about issues in which he is not involved and speak of things of which he simply does not have the facts.
You selectively screen other individuals.
As the volume of garbage tex posts continues to accumulate, it appears more and more that this blog is using the Lone Stranger to carry the mail. If that is not the message that Alticor intends, then why not rein in this horse’s hindquarters? If it is the message Alticor wants sent, why not send it directly from Corporate Communications?
By intent or neglect, Alticor Media Blog is allowing many distributors and prospects to be offended by tex. Is that how you want to be painted?
October 25th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
Good bye Bridgett, WON’T miss you take Tex with you.
October 25th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
I’ve said it once before and I’ll say it again, Bridgett…
The battle cry of team seems to be “I’ve made up my mind! Don’t confuse me w/the facts!”
October 25th, 2007 at 6:52 pm
tex..
you have way too much time on your hands or your getting paid… this is a free country and we all have rights and such.. or we thought we did..
1. you have no rights left in amquix..
2. they were my friends to start with.. and now.. there property of quixsand..
3. morally and ethically has been a little abused by the quixand folks.. how about all the bonuses that were due to folks that earned there bonus,, yet did NOT recieve it.. so if you believe in santa you will believe in quixsand.. and some day santa just wont come for you either….
GOD BLESS AND PEACE TO ALL INVOLVED…
October 25th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
IBOAI Board Privately = We 100% vote no confidence in Quixtar or the name change to Amway.
IBOAI Board to IBOs = We are so excited about this best business opportunity in the world.
IBOAI Board privately = Our research shows that Q products are way overpriced.
IBOAI Board to IBOs = You can save 30% by buying from yourself.
IBOAI Board privately = 95% will drop out within 5 years.
IBOAI Board to IBOs = By following these CORE steps (and lining our pockets) you can surely expect $50,000 in your first year.
Alticor privately and publically = You are an independent business owner, but the business you built by recruiting belongs to us and you can’t have it. We are the best business in the world, but we won’t show you by fair competition - instead we will sue you so you can’t even try to compete (sounds like they are afraid of competition). Quixtar is not Amway, it is a brand new business model (I’ve heard that for the last 7 years). Uh, Quixtar is going back to Amway but it will be a “transformation” to Amway.
So in the end what happens? Kingpins still get insane profits by lieing to their downline. Quixtar still gets Jay factor profits by allowing kingpins to exaggerate. And ofcourse, single moms, college kids and new people with some dreams get hurt.
October 25th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
bill #162,
Are you trying to say they could be members of the IBOAI Board and be this clueless as to what rules had been in place for 3-4 years? You may think we’re that stupid, but I think you’re that stupid to suggest the above is true.
Dwight #163,
You’re right, that’s the 2 year part of the non-solicitation rule.
October 25th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
This is laughable. I read the entire lawsuit and here is my plan. I’m going to file a lawsuit against Wal-Mart stating 1,000 things that could be deemed illegal and just hope that a couple of them fly and they get shut down.
I cannot speak for the actions of every person in TEAM, however, some of the claims prove that Quixtar is desperate. First of all, we have NEVER needed a Quixtar ID to login to the TEAM website, nor have we ever needed one to get in events.
Secondly, no one has been told to resign from my team, that is just a pipe dream for Quixtar thinking there is no way 20,000 people have a brain of their own (again I cannot speak for everyone on TEAM).
Thirdly, this LOS proprietary stuff is a joke. Some people actually when building their Quixtar business built relationships with their team, so they would never need any of that information to give someone on their team a call. And if they are calling people they don’t know, it might just be to inform them professionally they are resigning. If that person asks why, we have a right to answer. Also, most people go to meetings on their own accord. Most tickets were bought back in July for Louisville, so LOS info is irrelevant.
Fourthly, the products are overpriced.
Fifthly, TEAM is no longer affiliated with Quixtar, so how can we be recruiting people into Quixtar to secretly compete with them.
Sixthly, the lawsuit makes you look foolish because there was NOTHING launched in Louisville except for a LEADERSHIP REVOLUTION. You know, the thing that you need to be successful at anything, not just an organization that is apparently competing with Quixtar.
Lastly, toward the end of the lawsuit, you sound like a bunch of whiny babies. Can you imagine K-Mart taking Wal-Mart to court, going “it’s not fair, they are competing with us. They have lower prices and our hurting our business.” No one is competing with you. We are building LEADERS.
October 25th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
Jeffrey #169,
When I need your advice I’ll ask you for it.
Lajinito #174,
Why should I? You’re already GONE.
October 25th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
Quixtar says right in the lawsuit!!
“If anyone knew our trade secrets and proprietary LOS info, the would have an UNFAIR competitive advantage.”
Does this mean they are conceding that they know if others knew how their structure worked they would WIN at their business because they know how to run a business better through competitive pricing?
For example, if a company has a patent on something which gives them total rights to it and no one else, they could be very successful if that thing in question is in demand. But if company B comes along and is able to use that same “thing” to compete, but knows how to run the business better and can give better prices and higher profit margins to its people, they WIN.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
When are you idiots going to get it. We all left voluntarely when you disparaged Woodwards, bradys, and the rest of us. When you threatened us with an ultimatum. And because of all of your cowardly lies. I hope this suit gos to Jury trial So the truth gets out.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
Tex #113
“Non-competes are very common in the business world, your plumber example is a poor analogy.”
– of course, Tex, I don’t expect you to like ANY post on this blog that speaks against AltiQuixWay.
So do y’all like the new Amway? —- “I’m liking it better every day. You quit, right?”
So what exactly do you like better about the new Amway than the previous one?
October 25th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
I just listened to a clip from Orrin Wood speaking at the 2003 Quixtar Live. Wow, here is the epitome of hypocrisy. On the video he is publically delcaring how fired up he about thie “best business opportunity” in the world. Now he says, for the last 6 years he has been trying to get Quixtar to reduce their overpriced products that cannot be retailed. On the other side, here is Quixtar lavishing praise on him & inviting him to speak t Q Live 2003, and now they say that he has not corrected inappropriate business techniques for 6 years. This is a perfect pictures of two crooks fighting over the same loot. And to be honest, Orrin sounds exactly like every WWDB diamond I have ever heard. They too are “all fired up, all fired up and all fired up”. They too know this is the best business opportunity in the world. That is Duncan’s statement even though he voted no confidence in Quixtar or its name change back to Amway. It is like every diamond from “just about” every LOS went to the same speech school “Tell them you are all fired up, it is the best opportunity, buy tools, and always trust every single word your diamond tells you, don’t dare question him, and you will be like us.”
October 25th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
Tex you need to get into a new line of work. So far all I see is a line of bull from. By the way you shoul start your own business. You certainly have all the answers. Shape up Tex and grow up. Lets face it you are man enough to start your own company. You are to full of bull. Good Luck Tex on person you put down.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
Hey, Thunderstruck
In your post on #87, your response is what we’ve fcome ot expect from TEAM homers. As I recall on the Just GO, TEAM strand, you homers were GLOATING about all the damage you were doing to A/Q. Well, now the real spanking begins. - snide comment deleted_
Oh, and as for your constitutional rights, or biblical rights, for that matter, where oh where does it give TEAM’s leadership the moral, ethical or legal right to steal property that you don’t own and use it as if it is yours? You don’t own the LOS, except for those you have established a personal relationship with, as I read my contractual obligations.
If this were the insurance business, you would lose your licenses and/or be sued for these actions by the company. It is called PIRACY. AAARRRRRRGGGHHH! -insert Pirate accent here-
You will have your day in court… You do have that right! Not like what you homers have done to our businesses…..
October 25th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Corporate Communications
re: This statement at the top.
“After being on the defensive for 20 straight legal attacks”
I would just to like to ask, how in the world can someone defending themselves from being threatened by filing filing a TRO to try and protect their business be an attack on y’all? Again, I am just asking because I would really like to know that.
And for anyone to answer, (us meaning anyone in TEAM including Orrin) regarding “smearing” Quixtar. Why is it that in just about everything that I have read regarding this conflict, Quixtar/Alticor has openly and blatantly disparaged, insulted and attacked TEAM, and in regards to how “TEAM is disparaging, insulting and attacking Quixtar” is only found in statements and accusations by Quixtar/Alticor? Especially since the leaders in TEAM have repeatedly asked us to do our best to avoid these claims.
Let see: 1. Quixtar/Alticor openly doing these things against TEAM, 2. The only signs of TEAM doing these things are that Quixtar/Alticor are accusing TEAM of doing these things.
Hmmmm, What is wrong with this picture?????
October 25th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
Dear Q,
It has come to my attention that not only team has been breaking the rules on bsm’s. I read the agreement on the bsm forms and found out that teams crossline to each other cannot buy tools or go to their seminars. Tex on #144 has admitted that he broke the rules. Now, normally, I would recommend a good talking to in order to solve the problems, but he has been stating for a very long time that if you break the rules, then you should get terminated. When can we expect to get an email confirming the termination?
#116 admin says–toomuchtex: We have asked more than one person to tone things down a tad—Tex included. We sincerely appreciate everybody’s participation, as well as your desire to keep the discourse civil and intellectual.
How can you say “civil and intellectual” in the same paragraph with tex? He has called people who disagree with him stupid, brainless, etc. How is that either civil or intellectual? Oh, never mind, he’s not on or affiliated with team and he is Q loyal. That explains it.
October 25th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
#153, well said
#155, thank you for disagreeing with respect and not anger and hostility. If we had more people like you and freedom, I would still have respect for more people in the Q. I still disagree with you, but I still have respect for you. Thanks again.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
Unfortunately, and perhaps by design, current Quixtar…oops, I mean Amway IBO’s and Team loyalists have been compelled to spar with each other on this blog (and others).
Honestly, I completely understand the Amway IBO’s…oops, I mean ABO’s…feeling the way they do. They have spent considerable time and money to build their businesses, just like members of the Team did. Now, they feel threatened. They feel that Team is undermining their business.
Of course, Amway ABO’s should recognize that Team members feel the same way. We are incredibly loyal to each other…we believe in each other…and Amway is trying to terminate our past business, our current business (which isn’t much) and our future business. Like you, we will fight to defend what we feel is rightfully ours…which, in this case, is simply the opportunity to do business (after our six month waiting period).
I wish the Amway ABO luck, and I hope at the end of this conflict, both the Team and the Amway ABO can shake hands and move on.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:12 pm
Tex 113 and Scott 127
I just hope people are not following either Quixtar or the team on blind faith, because personally I felt they were both acting like a bunch of spoiled multi-millionaires. My decision really came down to trying to compare the facts (or lack there of) I received from both my team leaders and my old team still affiliated with Quixtar.
The team and Quixtar have been filing lawsuits against each other. So who’s better? For me it came down to this: I felt Orrin should have kept his mouth shut, taken the six months, and walked away. People were going to follow him. I was going to follow him. By filing the lawsuit, and starting this ball rolling, I felt he was the instigator and created the monster this has now become. And I felt he didn’t have to.
Is there a basis for the “I quit because of pricing/Amway name”? Some people had problems with this so I agree with the team on that. On the other hand my Diamond also said (before the terminations) Quixtar had some products in the works that are better priced and the move to Amway will actually make the compensation plan better. For me: Either my Diamond was lying to me before the terminations or he started lying to me after. Either way, he intentionally lied to my face.
I saw more growth and more pv flowing through our organization (both before and after we joined the team) in the last couple years than I did in the previous years combined. If the pricing is the problem how is everything growing? And based on my conversations as I’m contacting, the Amway name comes up maybe 5-10% of the time if that.
And the last one was Orrin’s potential motives -vs- the non-compete, trying to get all BSM’s on the same page, etc. of Quixtar. For me: the company I was with was acquired by another company about a year ago. When we came over the owners of my company signed a four year non-compete. They also were required to get on the same page with how our new owners ran their business. Is it just coincidence that as his “leadership development” system grew bigger the non-compete became an issue? Or was he making so much money from his system he didn’t want to make his materials comply with the direction Quixtar was going? Based on the fact almost all lawsuits I see with Quixtar’s name on them revolve around BSM’s, I personally think they should have started trying to get everyone on the same page sooner.
But it all came down to one thing: Let’s pretent Orrin was OK with getting his BSM’s in compliance. If he was, has Quixtar done anything different to me or others in the last couple years I felt would force Orrin or anyone else to do what they did? I saw Quixtar spend millions to back up Randy Haugen and his lawsuit. Not a single leader has ever complained about the way they were treated on trips. And Orrin and all the other Diamonds built their business to millions with much more difficult circumstances than the current pricing or Amway name.
It all led me back to the belief Orrin’s ONLY motive from the beginning was to try and play out the “he who has the gold makes the rules” to Quixtar and try to tell Quixtar how this business would work. And by doing so, I think he P*ssed Quixtar off and now will have to spend millions fighting them.
And now, based on reading the lawsuit, I wonder if he was too arrogant for his own good. The accusations in that Quixtar lawsuit, including quotes, lead me to believe Quixtar has voice messages that came down from the team, printed emails that were sent to IBO’s, printed pages off the team website, and/or many other things they will bring into the courts. I’m not a lawyer, but you don’t use quotes and make those accusations unless you feel very strongly you have the proof to back it up. I can’t imagine, after the way the California lawsuit went, Quixtar would be dumb enough to file a lawsuit without having much information they feel will back up at least a couple of the major points such as:
- The 6-month inactivity rule being broken.
- The 2-year don’t contact IBO’s rule.
And if Quixtar wins, and again I’m not a lawyer, most likely I assume Orrin and the team would be forbidden from accepting any IBO’s in their “leadership development” business for two years if they were registered Quixtar IBO’s prior to their termination on August 9th or if they were brought into their system during the 6-month non-compete.
That would basically leave the team as a 15(or so) Diamond team starting from scratch and we won’t have a choice to go with the team because if we do Orrin is pulled into another lawsuit and we get kicked off his team. That was not a chance I was willing to take with my childrens future.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:29 pm
172. ajgannon
“www.ttaa.com.” is actually http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/index.php
I didn’t really intend to create a link in my post, but when I noticed it turned into a click-able link that didn’t go anywhere I thought I should clarify. I’ve primarily commented on the above mentioned blog.
Like Bridgett, I’m outta here! Commenting on blogs is for people with with way better time management skills than I have. I’ve got to go refine my goals and get organized. Go diamond everybody!
October 25th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Tex # 125 –
Actually, I had a coworker, my boss (the head of my department) and one of our corporate VP’s interested today in attending the next Major in St. Louis with me. And this was based solely on what I told them about the conference in Louisville! They got excited hearing about so many people learning about priciples of leadership, character, integrity, Personal Missions Statements and the like.
My coworker and my boss are Phlegmatic/Melancholies, who I told about what I learned there. I kept it low key, like talking to my spouse, of similar temperment. The corporate VP is a Choleric/Melancholy (like me), who was delighted to hear about the learning, the people and the keynote speakers (Orrin and Chris) being authors of a “New York Times” #14 (as of last Wednesday, BEFORE it hits the stores!) best-selling book! I just told him what I would want to know . . .
Oh, and they’re ALL also interested in talking more about the weekly CD’s, monthly books and monthly local seminars, too . . . Promoting leadership development is WAY easier than promoting over-priced merchandise, even when I believed in the products!!
October 25th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
This is all getting a bit ridiculous. If all the allegations on all the other blogs out there are true, that Quixtar/Amway doesn’t need Team or any of their affiliates, then why the big deal when we all want to leave? Quixtar/Amway should be saying good bye and good riddance and best of luck to you. They made a comment in the email I received in August that no one has ever left Quixtar/Amway to join another MLM and succeeded. Well if that is the case, then why do they care if we leave? Why do they care if we “fall on our faces?” Just cut us loose and let us fail if that is what you believe. I think Quixtar is worried about all the revenue they are going to lose as their volume of sales drops. Every time I went to share this business with anyone, the first question out of their mouth was, “Is this Amway?” No one wanted anything to do with Amway. That is one of the reasons I resigned my IBO number. Now that the news is out that it is Amway, no one will touch it with ten foot pole. I don’t know why, because I had never heard of Amway before starting with Quixtar, but obviously it left a bad taste in peoples’ mouths. I for one will follow Orrin and Chris and like I said before, if I fail, that should be of no concern to Quixtar/Amway.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
Corporate Communications:
“But most of all, we are filing suit because TEAM has taken proprietary business information from Quixtar that IBOs could be using right now to build Quixtar businesses”
What IBO’s are missing any information that they need to build a Q* business? Any IBO can get information regarding their LOS either off the website or by calling Q* for their active upline name and number, and if they were actively building a Q* business in the first place, they already have that information.
If a Q* IBO or a “former” IBO decides to attend a Team function or buy leadership tools from Team, who is Q* to tell them they can’t? That would be like Q* telling you which grocery store you are allowed to shop at and which one you can’t, or that you can’t have a membership at Sam’s Club.
Q* really just needs to stop. They are just digging the hole they are in deeper and deeper. The more Q* does to Team and any other LOA’s,the more IBO’s that will leave because of it.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
#186 Scipio:
I hope it goes to trial too. So team can eat more crow. Like they did after the CA determination they were so fired up about… until it didn’t go their way.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
Another question for the Quixtar people.
If you sponsor your mother or your sister or your daughter or such and you decide to move on to another business opportunity… If you want to share this new opporunity with them, will Quixtar say “sure, go ahead with our blessing”? Or will they say “NO WAY!!! We OWN your mother, your sister and/or your daughter!!!”? To look at it logically, there is only two ways to call it what it is: 1. Are they slaves, or 2. does the corporation consider other kinds of property ……..
(I wish I could say it a different way for it to sound but I am only doing it to make a point. There is NO ACCUSATION OR INTIMATION AGAINST ANYONE INTENDED), however, it still brings up the question, Does anyone want their families to be considered either one of them?
October 25th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
bridgette 35
we are all TEAM.
One TEAM Nation under God with liberty and justice for all!!!!!
October 25th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
Sounds like we found a new “Scam”….the legal department of Quixtar “scam”. The more legal troubles they keep their company in, the greater the job insurance for the legal department. Meanwhile, the customer service departments and distribution center employees are just waiting to hear when their lay off time will begin. Pretty good “scam” in a state that has one of the worst economies in the country. I feel so sorry for all the IBO’s out there trying to build. It must be so frustrating out there trying to convince someone that this is a good “business opportunity”. One google search and they find a huge hornet’s nest.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:00 am
ok Moderator…..even though Tex does some very lengthy ones and one from Freedom recently was rather lengthy…..
Notice 2 others of mine were not posted at all. I think I have a right to confront Tex and his insulting and uncalled remarks and name calling to me as well as all others he does this to on this site w/o any repercussion.
So, I’ll do as Tex does, how I hate that, but I’ll do it in parts, even though I see it yet on the site, I’ll do it all again in parts so you all can read it thru easier starting with the 1st one that for some reason you guys didn’t like, or I’ll give benefit of doubt, a computer glitch.
Here goes….
Part 1
Hi there y’all (this for Tex whoever he/she is)
Just to let you know Tex, I did read your insults, lies, and downright ridiculous insinuations, remarks, yada yada yada…..
I too, would like to know who the likes of who you are and who appointed you GOD.
My husband & I were at Louisville. The most awesome Leadership Conference ever attended. Tex and the rest of you bloggers against TEAM could have stood to have attended to learn some respect, attitude, consideration, kindness and decency of others. All you all know is how to insult people. Tex comes across as an arrogant egotistical (I’m trying to be nice pastor) blowhard who doesn’t know which end is up.
Approx 25,000+ attended the weekend. Freedom Hall holds 20,000 and it was packed - another building was opened up to hold the rest of the people in attendance and it was just about packed.
All the speakers, especially Orrin 2 speeches/teachings hit the ball right out of the park - way out. It was Tremendous! All the speakers were courteous, gracious, caring individuals who still, through all the garbage handed them over the past couple months, gave their hearts to everyone in attendance. Don’t get sarcastic either Tex. If you have a heart, maybe you’ll get the clue.
…..go to part 2
October 26th, 2007 at 12:01 am
5caballeros#198
I agree, but I think Orrin started something HE should have just walked away from.
Orrin has said in many different ways and with many different analogies over the years, if you come at me, if you attack me, I’m going to defend myself and fight back.
None of us know what happened in that meeting except the Diamonds and Quixtar people that were there. We can argue, but it’s all speculation.
None of that matters. What I know as fact, is that after the meeting, on the same day, Orrin filed a lawsuit against Quixtar. And not just any lawsuit, but one that got thrown out WITH PREJUDICE.
Now, if you are Quixtar, and you also share Orrin’s you attack me I will fight back attitude, what are you going to do? Just say go away? Of fight back?
The question I come back to is this, if Orrin truly walked into the meeting trying to help IBO’s, never made a threat, never threatened Quixtar or did anything wrong, and at the end said, “I’m sorry you feel that way. I resign effective immediately. I will wait my six months and at the end will start my own MLM. I thank you for the years of service, but I can no longer in good conscience build this business.”
Would any of us be discussing anything???????
Would Orrin have to contact anyone? Or would all the team IBO’s, with no influence from Orrin, quit anyway? If the only team information you could get was a statement on the team website that said, “We appreciate our affiliation with Quixtar throughout the years, but the team site will be on hold until February 9, 2008″ wouldn’t all the free thinking team people know exactly what is going on and quit anyway?
So what did Orrin’s lawsuit do other than to push Quixtar into a corner that Orrin himself has said many times he would fight his way out of?
Maybe Orrin should have said “good bye and good riddance and best of luck to you.”
October 26th, 2007 at 12:01 am
Now for part 2…
People of integrity always stand firm and come out ahead shining above all others. I feel sorry for some of you who are still deceived by Q. Amway many years started out great and full of integrity. It got lost somewhere along the way…..someone got greedy and forgot what the business was all about. What they also forgot was that people are loyal to people and their character, integrity, principles, credibility, honor, NOT products. Just for you TeX, I happen to love the Q products and vitamins. What we’ve decided is we don’t want to purchase any longer from a corporation who lies, continues on with childish fights, sneaks in non sense non compete rules and changes the ‘plan’, foregoes the reason for the IBOAI, ignores the wishes and suggestions of all their IBOs, changes what was set up for ‘changing lines of sponsorships’ to limiting and shackling of Independent Business Owners who choose to leave the Corporation, not just a line of sponsorship. I’ve watched the prices, the comparisons, have had my own issues and discussions with Q regarding prices going up only to be ignored; Vitamins kept going up in price, while PV stayed the same; BV may have gone up in conjunction with price, but it took one a whole lot more money to get to the same pv bracket it took less money to do years ago before 1999 Quixtar. I was good at helping people ‘reach’ their brackets. Could help people get their 100 pts for way under $200 - sometimes close to $150 and that included the tax and shipping. Nowadays, there is no way one can get to a bracket of 100 pv without costing them $240+. Formucare products mfg for Access Business Group come from the same mfg that supplies other Vendors for a whole lot less. I just purchased 240 tabs of Ranitadine for $6.00 from the same people who provide bottle of 30 tabs for Access Business Group - only ABG sells it for apaprox $7. You figure it out. When we sold or carried a particular litter also carried by Petsmart, Q sold it for twice the money - 30lb bag for $11.99 Petsmart; 2/15 lb bags for $30. Q tried to say it was 2 different items. It wasn’t!
cont’d to part 3
October 26th, 2007 at 12:02 am
tex 74
what reputatoin?
You maen the one we hvae all been tyring our hradest to ovrecome for the psat yaers but cnat becuase poeple go onlnie and fnid out the turth befroe we can even sgin tehm up?
October 26th, 2007 at 12:02 am
part 3
Paper products, go figure it out. Paper products are high, but when you add tax and shipping and then special shipping it really get costly. Now get this one and see if you can figure it out. Q has their own papermill. They are able to produce their own paper products. They printed the Speigel catalog few years back. They boasted about it. So why do they charge everyone an arm and a leg for paper products they can produce on their own.
We’ve been to the Nutrilite factory. cleanest and most impressive building facility I’ve ever seen. Maybe Tex works for Q and that is why he is able to say all he says, and insult anyone he chooses without any interruption from the blog administrator here.
Sorry, for getting long, probably won’t be seen here,. I just can’t stand idiocy running rampant and taking so many innocent people with it.
TEAM is just what it is - a Leadership Development source providing educational/motivational material for all and any who desire to learn how to be a better person and pass that learning on to others as in the movie ‘Pay it Forward’. Product oriented people will never get it. So I have a life to live vs being controlled and taken away from better things in life. this will be the last you hear from me so all of you please be safe, take heart, listen with an open mind and heart, let your ‘yes’ be ‘yes’ and your ‘no’ be ‘no’ - this is biblical - may be good idea to read it unless you consider that part of a ‘tool’ scam.
I’m sure you want your surgeons, dentists, contractors, accountants, brokers, etc. who need ‘tools’ to utilize their ‘tool’s whether they be books, schooling, conferences, seminars, cds, dvds, etc., so they can provide you the best possible service available. But, maybe you consider all their ‘tools’ a scam for them as well.
God Bless and Let Freedom Ring!
Francine R. in Glendale, Az.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:07 am
Apparently there was a glitch - this was the 2nd one that that was shorter…..
Paper products, go figure it out. Paper products are high, but when you add tax and shipping and then special shipping it really get costly. Now get this one and see if you can figure it out. Q has their own papermill. They are able to produce their own paper products. They printed the Speigel catalog few years back. They boasted about it. So why do they charge everyone an arm and a leg for paper products they can produce on their own.
We’ve been to the Nutrilite factory. cleanest and most impressive building facility I’ve ever seen. Maybe Tex works for Q and that is why he is able to say all he says, and insult anyone he chooses without any interruption from the blog administrator here.
Sorry, for getting long, probably won’t be seen here,. I just can’t stand idiocy running rampant and taking so many innocent people with it.
TEAM is just what it is - a Leadership Development source providing educational/motivational material for all and any who desire to learn how to be a better person and pass that learning on to others as in the movie ‘Pay it Forward’. Product oriented people will never get it. So I have a life to live vs being controlled and taken away from better things in life. this will be the last you hear from me so all of you please be safe, take heart, listen with an open mind and heart, let your ‘yes’ be ‘yes’ and your ‘no’ be ‘no’ - this is biblical - may be good idea to read it unless you consider that part of a ‘tool’ scam.
I’m sure you want your surgeons, dentists, contractors, accountants, brokers, etc. who need ‘tools’ to utilize their ‘tool’s whether they be books, schooling, conferences, seminars, cds, dvds, etc., so they can provide you the best possible service available. But, maybe you consider all their ‘tools’ a scam for them as well.
God Bless and Let Freedom Ring!
Francine R. in Glendale, Az.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:08 am
ok moderator~thank you for letting me resubmit
Part 1
I received a very disparaging email from Q against TEAM and was threatened that I/we would be possibly in violation of something if we continued to follow TEAM. (think Q has things a bit turned around - they better look in the mirror)
Q was court ordered to send out an apology to all IBOs - this never happened. In fact, we never did receive an email from them or letter re: our registration, even though we emailed it, faxed it and then sent it Certified Mail. Took over 2 wks to receive the signed green card back from Q. We were kicked out of Q site though only about a week after we faxed/emailed our resignation in.
One has to have access Q by the IBO # and password; once resigned, one no longer has access, so, how does Q keep referring to TEAM keeps using the LOS to do meetings, functions, etc. yada yada…..
Meetings around the country stopped shortly after the Resignations/Terminations of Aug 9. There are no Tuesday meetings. What TEAM leaders, leaders on the IBOAI requested was an amiable separation if they all could not come to some sort of agreement on the name change to Amway and lowering of the prices to be more competitive in the marketplace. Q refused to do any of this, they ignored the IBOAI vote against the Amway name being brought back; they even finally agreed that TEAM (Orrin/Chris) did not have an MLM ready to go and that TEAM in of itself is not an MLM. Did they forget that part?
If there is an MLM business TEAM is doing, we are certainly unaware of it. We know nothing of any MLM business so I do not know what Q keeps referring to over and over again in the lawsuit because there is no MLM, no products or services whereby we can make any money. There is and never has been any type of new business talked about, promoted, or even hinted at. More lies from Q.
cont’d~~~
October 26th, 2007 at 12:10 am
cont’d from pt 1
Part 2
The BDS held and the Louisville Conference deal with nothing but Leadership principles and skills in helping one lead a better life and preparing oneself for better things, whatever they may be.
Everyone is following the Rule 6 to the ‘T’, no ifs, buts, or whatevers.
No one was coerced, encouraged, and all the other verbs Q uses in its silly lawsuit to Resign from Q and/or stop their autorenewal. We are all Extremely Loyal to our Leaders; something Q still doesn’t understand or comprehend. We all made a choice on our own. Please give us all that much credit that we all have our own brains and minds and can and do think for ourselves and do not follow a carrot on a stick just for the fun of it because we are told to do or else.
Talk about money hungry. TEAM never, NEVER in any lawsuit they brought in defending themselves asked for monetary damages. They and all of us just want to be left alone by Q and never be bothered by them again. They are extremely unprofessional, unbusinesslike, unless one calls what they’re doing (cutthroat tactics) businesslike; money hungry, guess I better stop - appears like they can say all the disparaging remarks they wish against all of us but don’t dare say anything against them - they’ll sue.
Q, however on the other hand, is asking for all sorts of monetary damages - in fact everything they are asking for is absurd! Some of may even border on being unconstitutional. What, they’re trying to recoup all they’ve lost so far. Don’t they even realize or read enough of their own blogs that IBOs are leaving Q strictly based on the recent behavior and how they themselves are damaging themselves - they’re cutting off their own noses to spite their face, as the saying goes.
Don’t mean to be long, but when you have 20 pages of jibberish to respond to, it takes a while and even then it’s hard.
Pricing? Q even agreed their prices were getting high and they would work on doing something about it but never did, not here in the good ole US of A. I’ve been emailing Q for quite a few years about high priced items. They ignored them.
If Q doesn’t think they’re high priced, then why did they lower prices in the UK after the UK equivalent to our FTC went after them.
cont’d in pt 3
October 26th, 2007 at 12:10 am
Niki #175,
I’m not trying to satisfy you, I am providing responses to your questions. You haven’t stated a single instance where my logic is flawed. I may be a pawn, but you’ve just been put in checkmate, loser.
Because of the tool scam, A/Q and the lying cowardly “kingpins” make most of the money, and most IBO’s lose money. That’s why the tool scam needs to be dismantled. It has been with the DTI action in the UK and TEAM has shined a recent and bright light of the nature of the tool scam. Put me down all you want, we’re making progress, despite losers like you who can’t see the end game. Lead, follow, or get the “heck” out of the way, loser.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:12 am
cont’d from pt3
Part 4
Does Q even remember what Free Enterprise is or what it means. That competition is a good thing. What was the book one of their fathers put out ‘Compassionate Capitalism’ Free Enterprise, being an Entrepreneur is what true business ownership is all about. What Q wants is good little employees doing their bidding. Sorry Q, you are not what I/we started in almost 18 yrs ago. Not even close.
Well, my last 2 posts are under advisement - see if they’ll be allowed to be posted and then especially this one.
Sorry Q, all these lawsuits and untruthful allegations are just making all of angrier and angrier and even the people who may have stood behind you are now getting upset and discouraged by you.
3 days in Louisville, never once heard a disparaging remark re: Quixtar. Since it was not a Quixtar event, and probably majority of those of there have Resigned and no longer IBOs, and not part of Quixtar any longer, Quixtar and its products had no place there in a leadership training and education and we’re no longer associated with Quixtar.
Books we purchased are books one can buy at any book store and for the same price; don’t think there is any law of any type against selling wearable items with one’s logo; CDs and DVDs that are all about leadership, relationships, history, personalities, behaviors, information on how to become a better person, etc.
Funny how all this has been done for many years with Q’s approval and now it’s not. It was even approved under other IBO organizations and 3rd party BSMs are still approved and used by IBO organizations still associated with Q with no problem.
The plan that has been shown by TEAM and other organizations has been the same plan with slight variations on best way to build security, nonetheless, the same plan that has been shown for almost 18 yrs. A plan/concept that brought in an abundance of IBOs who are/were part of TEAM and other organizational names with no problem. All of a sudden, all these same concepts, way of doing business, plan, BSMs, are all now part of lawsuits instigated by Q. I just don’t get it and neither does thousands of others, apparently.
We’re all just very baffled by this onslaught of viciousness and attacks including personal attacks that are uncalled for.
None of what is in that lawsuit is happening. Not from where we are. Not from what we saw and listened to at Louisville, or any BDS since Aug 9, or from any TEAM member, email or voicemail. In fact, emails and voicemails have been nil, nothing - all quiet.
Good nite and God bless….. WP in AZ
All resubmitted…..I can’t believe this blog went from 56 to 400 in such a short time!!!!.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:16 am
tex 145
AEM #142,
Most of my information about TEAM comes from several Opens and a Seminar, not A/Q.
. . . then you don’t have much information.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:23 am
C Johnsoon #176,
I read your law suit versus TEAM. How do you guys sleep at night? —- Very soundly with a smile on their faces would be my guess.
What competing MLM are you talking about? What are you talking about….. period. —- You don’t tell the whole story in a lawsuit, don’t you know that?
Also, I saw your alegations… where are the exhibits? —- Again, the exhibits show up as evidence in the courtroom. You appear to have a complete lack of understanding what a lawsuit looks like.
Greed is your problem. —- Lack of IQ is your problem.
toomuchtex #177,
You allowed tex to slur latinos; people were offended-you said and did nothing. —- Where did I do that? Just because some people are looking to be offended doesn’t mean I slurred any group of people.
You allowed tex to slur the handicaped; same response. —- Same.
You permit tex to offend in virtually every post. You engage him in warm banter. —- Virtually, I thought I offended somebody in EVERY post. I better pay more attention to this…you idiot. What can I say, I’m just lovable.
To confirm that you are allowing one individual to offend entire groups of people, I suggest you re-read the many responses from the people who have been offended. —- Provide the location, you lazy jerk.
You permit tex to insult people he has never met and rant about issues in which he is not involved and speak of things of which he simply does not have the facts.
You selectively screen other individuals. —- I don’t have to meet you to know you’re an Orrinite, it oozes out from every pore in your body. I don’t need to meet someone to KNOW they support the lying cowardly “kingpins”. I’m plenty involved, what are you talking about? I have plenty of facts and use them to support my logical conclusions, unlike YOU. The Moderators don’t “selectively screen” anyone, they have declined some of my posts and modified others when I test the boundaries, you’re just a whiner extrordinaire.
As the volume of garbage tex posts continues to accumulate, it appears more and more that this blog is using the Lone Stranger to carry the mail. If that is not the message that Alticor intends, then why not rein in this horse’s hindquarters? If it is the message Alticor wants sent, why not send it directly from Corporate Communications? —- I post my opinions based on facts and logic. This is an open blog, deal with it, loser.
By intent or neglect, Alticor Media Blog is allowing many distributors and prospects to be offended by tex. Is that how you want to be painted? —- I am offended the lying cowardly “kingpins” have financially and mentally raped millions of former and current Distributors/IBO’s for decades to the tune of hundreds of millions to billions of dollars, or more. Get a clue. Get a grip. Get lost.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:28 am
Page 4 of the suit filed in Navada. .
“The goodwill and relationships Quixtar has with customers and/or IBOs, all based on and organized
around the LOS, are extremely valuable to Quixtar”.
What you do is far clearer than what you say. How many non-Team affliated IBO’s are
leaving simply because of how Quixtar has treated their IBO’s?
October 26th, 2007 at 12:32 am
Sorry bout that, #204 & 205 are duplicates- copy/paste error. Read #205 again to get it all into the brain so it stays there.
God Bless to you all.
Please remember why you all got involved in this business in the first place. oops, I remember - it wasn’t Q providing the positive teaching, encouraging words, books on relationships, friendships, hugs when necessary, a shoulder to lean on when needed, a very personal friendship & business relationship - people helping people, not people buying products; products if y’all remember is more of a side of what the real purpose to having a People Business.
Rreading these blogs & all the lawsuits instigated by Q, you’d never know that the Founding Fathers Rich & jay started this business with all the encouragement, integrity, character and honesty of a professional business owner wanting to give people the same opportunity and to share that opportunity.
All the blogging, especially here, all the Q lawsuits continuing with all the Hate of Orrin, Chris, TEAM & anyone associated with them, is way beyond and past the point of respect and Free Enterprise.
Remember what Mr. Kruscheff from Russia said to us the USA - we will crush you from within. This is what is happening.
Q wake up. You are doing the same thing. You are destroying yourselves, any IBO still there wanting to believe and succeed in business and follow their dream, and all who are around you. Shame on you.
Prove yourselves to be people of respect and decent integrity and stop all this foolishness before you have no one else to blame and you are forced to look in the mirror.
Bring it!
Warrior Princess
October 26th, 2007 at 12:33 am
sak #178,
I’m here for the duration. If Bridgett leaves, I will miss her accurate perspective and sharp wit. But I can handle the load, you guys make it very easy for me to body slam you on every post.
GirlPower #179,
Right on.
Rick #180,
you have way too much time on your hands or your getting paid… —- Not getting paid, but my time is a minor price to pay for getting rid of the tool scam.
this is a free country and we all have rights and such.. or we thought we did.. —- We have rights, but you have to follow the rules, just like in the “real” business world.
1. you have no rights left in amquix.. —- WRONG.
2. they were my friends to start with.. and now.. there property of quixsand.. —- WRONG.
3. morally and ethically has been a little abused by the quixand folks.. how about all the bonuses that were due to folks that earned there bonus,, yet did NOT recieve it.. so if you believe in santa you will believe in quixsand.. and some day santa just wont come for you either…. —- WRONG.
GOD BLESS AND PEACE TO ALL INVOLVED… —- Split personality?
October 26th, 2007 at 12:43 am
John #181,
IBOAI Board Privately = We 100% vote no confidence in Quixtar or the name change to Amway. —- I think it was only the name change, but doesn’t matter, because they don’t have approval authority.
IBOAI Board to IBOs = We are so excited about this best business opportunity in the world. —- What would you say if you were a liar and coward, making millions via the tool scam?
IBOAI Board privately = Our research shows that Q products are way overpriced. —- Some are, some aren’t. I thought it was funny Billy Florence and Don Wilson took Doug DeVos to Walmart to look at prices in Texas a couple of years ago.
IBOAI Board to IBOs = You can save 30% by buying from yourself. —- This is true, but I find the retail prices too high in my area of the country, where the cost of living/prices are lower.
IBOAI Board privately = 95% will drop out within 5 years. —- This is a fairly well known fact, and true about many MLM’s. In Q’s case, it is made worse by the tool scam.
IBOAI Board to IBOs = By following these CORE steps (and lining our pockets) you can surely expect $50,000 in your first year. —- Now you’re talking.
Alticor privately and publically = You are an independent business owner, but the business you built by recruiting belongs to us and you can’t have it. We are the best business in the world, but we won’t show you by fair competition - instead we will sue you so you can’t even try to compete (sounds like they are afraid of competition). Quixtar is not Amway, it is a brand new business model (I’ve heard that for the last 7 years). Uh, Quixtar is going back to Amway but it will be a “transformation” to Amway. —- Whine, whine, whine. You must be drunk by now.
So in the end what happens? Kingpins still get insane profits by lieing to their downline. Quixtar still gets Jay factor profits by allowing kingpins to exaggerate. And ofcourse, single moms, college kids and new people with some dreams get hurt. —- That’s the point, the truth of the tool scam is in the open, and it’s up to the IBO’s to call a spade a spade and let the lying cowardly “kingpins” what we think of their tool scam. Your Jay Factor is a pretty weak argument, and has been destroyed by me several times. You need to get a clue on this issue.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:49 am
WOW, THAT GOOD IS THE FUTURE OF TEAM???
BACAUSE Q/A/A/? IT’S AFRAID ABOUT TEAM LEADERSHIP,IF THEY DONT CARE THEY LEAVE US,RIGHT????
PEOPLE OF A/Q/A/??/ THINK ABOUT IT!!
THEY ARE USING THE IBO’S MONEY!!!
WELL,I DON’T CARE ME AND MY TEAM ARE FOCUS ON THE FUTURE OF TEAM,,,,,LANCE, HERE WE GO!!!
October 26th, 2007 at 12:57 am
Pink Panther #183,
Good plan, let us know how it works out.
I use my IBO number to log onto the site, and there’s a TEAM number after I sign in.
How do you know nobody has been told to resign? Are you saying the woman giving testimoney a week or two ago was lying?
If you think it’s a joke, just try it and see what happens.
You got through KY, don’t depend on the same excuse to work for St. Louis.
Some products are overpriced, and it has been the upline that preaches 100% product loyalty, not Quixtar.
You aren’t capable of secretly getting people into Quixtar, they find out when the IBO number is assigned.
We’ll see who looks foolish in the long term. My educated guess is Orrin and Co.
You know, the thing that you need to be successful at anything, not just an organization that is apparently competing with Quixtar. —- What?
Lastly, toward the end of the lawsuit, you sound like a bunch of whiny babies. Can you imagine K-Mart taking Wal-Mart to court, going “it’s not fair, they are competing with us. They have lower prices and our hurting our business.” No one is competing with you. We are building LEADERS. —- Then Orrin and Co. should have shut up and done it, rather than filing their “illegal pyramid” lawsuit. That’s what is most amazing, the biggest liars and rule breakers are claiming to be “leaders”. What a joke.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:02 am
Pink Panther #185,
That’s not what they meant at all, care to guess again? I find your “answers” very entertaining.
Scipio #186,
I can’t wait for the trial, either. We’ll probably get lots more tool scam details.
marc #187,
Tex, I don’t expect you to like ANY post on this blog that speaks against AltiQuixWay. —- I criticize A/Q when I think they deserve it.
So what exactly do you like better about the new Amway than the previous one? —- You’re not in it.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:11 am
John #188,
I agree with your assessment of A/Q supporting the tool scam by their silence. However, the rules violations are privacy matters that many Diamonds probably experience from time to time. I also agree with your characterization of the various Diamonds, I have most LOS/LOA tools, and they sound VERY similar to each other. As Randy Haugen is well known for saying, “What’s your problem, we all have the same plan, right?” So how different COULD the audios be?
Mick #189,
You need to get into a new line of work. So far all I see is a line of bull from. By the way you should start your own business. You certainly have all the answers. Shape up Mick and grow up. Lets face it you are man enough to start your own company. You are to full of bull. Good Luck Mick on person you put down.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:15 am
Rich #191,
I would just to like to ask, how in the world can someone defending themselves from being threatened by filing filing a TRO to try and protect their business be an attack on y’all? Again, I am just asking because I would really like to know that. —- Because…they are….defendants….in those TRO’s?
And for anyone to answer, (us meaning anyone in TEAM including Orrin) regarding “smearing” Quixtar. Why is it that in just about everything that I have read regarding this conflict, Quixtar/Alticor has openly and blatantly disparaged, insulted and attacked TEAM, and in regards to how “TEAM is disparaging, insulting and attacking Quixtar” is only found in statements and accusations by Quixtar/Alticor? Especially since the leaders in TEAM have repeatedly asked us to do our best to avoid these claims. —- Because TEAM initially launched “The Mother of All Insults” with their “illegal pyramid” lawsuit. That’s like shooting someone in the head and then telling your fellow criminal partners not to hit the person who was shot. You’re a living, walking, talking, joke.
Let see: 1. Quixtar/Alticor openly doing these things against TEAM, 2. The only signs of TEAM doing these things are that Quixtar/Alticor are accusing TEAM of doing these things. Hmmmm, What is wrong with this picture????? —- What’s wrong is mentioned above, you idiot.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:24 am
Tex,
What’s the matter - can’t answer a few simple questions? You can harass everyone else about their answers but won’t play ball when someone calls you out. I think you’re a fraud - answer the questions without your lame when I’m platinum excuse (like you’re ever going platinum - that’s laughable).
What was your PV last month? And your bonus check? And how long have you been in? And how much did you say your net income was last year? Tell the truth now. I’m waiting…
October 26th, 2007 at 1:27 am
john #192,
You need to read the rules again. I can get tools from any source I choose, but you can’t promote to those outside your LOS. Besides, if they treated me similar to Orrin, I would have at least 6 years to fix my problems, sometimes the same problem over and over again.
Others have used their pea-shooters to call me names. It’s not my fault that all I have is 16″ guns to fire back with. You guys were all cocky when the court case was in CA and the TRO’s were being approved. Now that the tables have turned you get all whiny (or you can use “whiney” if you prefer) over the same name-calling that was fine when you were feeling cocky. Get a grip. Better yet, just leave this blog and let us take care of the rest of the lying cowardly “kingpins”, Orrin and Co. are yesterday’s news.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:33 am
Vince #194,
There isn’t much sparring on other blogs, they ban one side or the other.
You don’t have a clue how we feel, and you don’t feel the same way. We don’t like the lying cowardly “kingpins”, you do.
After Orrin and Co.’s bonehead “illegal pyramid” lawsuit, it may be much more than a 6 month waiting period for them.
We are way past the handshake stage, if you haven’t noticed.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:46 am
freedom #195,
I think you have properly assessed the facts of the situation.
Cathy #197,
One or two people being interested doesn’t make it a viable business. Also, when they learn more about how Orrin has been acting, you may not see them as “fired up” as they are now.
5caballeros #198,
You obviously don’t understand, but it doesn’t matter. Bub-bye.
janedoe #199,
Quixtar is digging a hole, the purpose of the hole is what you don’t “get”, it is to bury Orrin and Co. into (figuratively speaking, of course).
October 26th, 2007 at 2:06 am
You know… all I gotta say to Q/A is quit your sniveling! This whole lawsuit is a whiny bunch of bull. This happened to my hair dresser. She was being poorly treated by her salon, so one day, she wasn’t there anymore. The salon told her that the clients belonged to the salon. Well, I liked the way she cut and colored my hair, so when I called to make an appointment, I found out what happened, and secretly found out where she went. My loyality wasn’t to the salon. It was to the hairdresser who I’d developed a relationship with, and wanted HER and ONLY HER to cut my hair! Guess what Q, you’re the salon, and I think I’ll follow my hairdresser to a brighter salon, wherever that may lead (I wish I could look into a crystal ball to see the new salon, but I can’t). But did the old salon sue the hair dresser and say “you stole our private information”? NO! Cause it’s a free country and I can go to any salon I CHOOSE!
No one coached me, no one cornered me, no one forced me… you basically pushed me to follow my hair dresser! I refuse to let you color my hair with “Amway” or condition with “Jay Factor” anymore!
October 26th, 2007 at 3:24 am
I have an idea. The IBOAI says they represent the IBOs. All LOS kingpins say their best interest is in the IBOs. Quixtar says it is protecting the IBOs. So how about this. How about every IBOAI member, every kingpin and Quixtar all open their books to the IBOs. Let the IBOs see the truth. Let the IBOs see how much IBOAI members and kingpins are taking from their downline to enrich their materialistic, selfish, arrogant lifestyles. And let Mr. Devos and Vanandel open their books and show how much money they are taking from low level IBOs. I am all for profit and free enterprise, but I am not for so called leaders always talking about how much they care about the IBOs when in fact they making huge personal and selfish profits at the expense of college kids, single moms and struggling families. Open the books guys. For once in your lives, just tell the truth. You are hurting lots of people with your greed and selfishness. By the way, if the IBOAI is a Michigan non-profit, is it possible to request (freedom of information act) a copy of their financial statements? It might be interesting to see how much these caring Board members receive for their service to protect the very IBOs they keep taking money from for tools. Does anyone know?
October 26th, 2007 at 3:26 am
I have an idea. The IBOAI says they represent the IBOs. All LOS kingpins say their best interest is in the IBOs. Quixtar says it is protecting the IBOs. So how about this. How about every IBOAI member, every kingpin and Quixtar all open their books to the IBOs. Let the IBOs see the truth. Let the IBOs see how much IBOAI members and kingpins are taking from their downline to enrich their materialistic, selfish, arrogant lifestyles. And let Mr. Devos and Vanandel open their books and show how much money they are taking from low level IBOs. I am all for profit and free enterprise, but I am not for so called leaders always talking about how much they care about the IBOs when in fact they making huge personal and selfish profits at the expense of low level IBOs. Open the books guys. For once in your lives, just tell the truth. You are hurting lots of people with your greed and selfishness. By the way, if the IBOAI is a Michigan non-profit, is it possible to request (freedom of information act) a copy of their financial statements? It might be interesting to see how much these caring Board members receive for their service to protect the very IBOs they keep taking money from for tools. Does anyone know?
October 26th, 2007 at 7:23 am
Dear Quixtar,
JaneDoe(199) points out that you are missing proprietary information that IBO’s could be using to build their businesses.
Prior to my resignation I sponsored my son, and three of my best friends. If you are missing contact information on them, you can email me and I’ll provide that to you so that other IBOs can use that to build their business.
My upline has never suggested that I resign. My upline has not approached me presenting a new MLM.
When I resigned, I did so in compliance with your request entitled “Just Go TEAM.” You were the ones that asked me to leave, not TEAM; So I left. The deciding information all came from the postings that your company put here.
It is the attitude and posture of the company’s postings here that made me decide to resign. (Not the bloggers, not Bridgett, not Tex, not the pro-TEAM bloggers.)
But then, I only spent about $4,000 a year at Quixtar, so it’s not big deal that I’m gone. 3/4 of it was self consumption, and the company wouldn’t want to make money off IBO consumption so you are probably relieved I am now spending that at Meijers.com or Target.com instead.
Although if 25,000 other IBOs did the same - thats a $100,000,000 drop in sales…oh well, your company will grow so much faster with all those potential IBOs clamoring to be AMWAY people that you’ll mitigate that loss in a couple of months
Once again, let me know if you can’t find the proprietary information on my son and I’ll email his address and phone# to you. If other IBOs use that “proprietary information” to build their businesses “right now”, please make sure he knows them — you wouldn’t want to “illegally” stack him.
(Yes, this is tongue-in-cheek.)
October 26th, 2007 at 8:18 am
Ok here is a thought to reflect on… Before this went down, when you got involved with the TEAM you registered with TEAM and then registered with Quixtar. While Quixtar can claim they “Own” their LOS information, on the same point TEAM can claim the same because they registered the same people with their business. They are 2 different entities and the order of registration on both would be the same considering you registered with both at the same time. HELLLLOOOO!! Nothing was ever stolen, taken, kept, etc…
October 26th, 2007 at 8:40 am
Dwight Spaulding #163
Your response to Lone Star State #147 would be valid if that response was directed toward an IBO. Many people are reading these posts that are not (I get calls daily from people who are not IBO’s who read this). But, I do think that LSS should be careful because the Q lawyers are expert spinners. In addition, I don’t think the moderator would allow an actual solicitation toward IBO’s because then he would be an accomplice.
October 26th, 2007 at 8:43 am
GirlPower #200
Interesting analogy, remember…..lawyers are known as “crows”. In the end, all that will matter is we are gone and you are Amway.
October 26th, 2007 at 8:44 am
GirlPower #200,
The appropriate amount of crow for Orrin and Co. and the Orrinites to eat would threaten extinction of the species.
If you recall the movie Forrest Gump, when Bubba Blue talked about all the ways you can prepare Shrimp, imagine the parallel sentence from the judge: Crow is the fruit of the land. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, sautee it. There’s, um, crow kebabs, crow creole, crow gumbo, pan fried, deep fried, stir fried. There’s pineapple crow and lemon crow, coconut crow, pepper crow, crow soup, crow stew, crow salad, crow and potatoes, crow burger, crow sandwich… That’s, that’s about it.
Don’t ruin your appetite, TEAM. The best part is you won’t be able to talk or type while you’re eating. I understand a good, crisp white whine goes well with crow. Bon appetit.
October 26th, 2007 at 9:32 am
I scanned these again, and wanted to make a few comments:
1st, as soon as it became apparent, that a judge would/did rule that Q/A could tell Team not to sell contacting tools or have Open meetings on Tuesday, these stopped. I have not seen a Tuesday Open meeting scheduled for months. My tools that could be used for building a Quixtar business were no longer sold by Team or used. After Q/A won part of the suit in MI, Team went strictly generic leadership development. The Kent County Judge told Team they could operate, as long as they didn’t violate specific rulings. He has recently said that Team seems to be complying generally.
2nd, Team didn’t need to get the LOS from the Diamonds (former or not) or Q/A or any computer. Any IBO, or former IBO, would know who their mentors were. Team could delete any LOS information they have tommorrow, and within one month who is mentoring each member could be restored by each member quickly. I have seen no evidence that Team stole any LOS information.
3rd, Team has stated that they were not as of 8/9 starting a new MLM and that no mention of a new MLM was given at Louisville. To the best of my knowledge, no new MLM has been started or promoted since this mess on 8/9 til now, including the Louisville “party”.
4th, No one from Don Wilson, down to me has ever told me to resign Q/A or not. If I decided to go off auto renewal, it was my choice and I will not encourage others to quit or not. That is an individual decision.
5th, based on Mlive, etc, 16,000 former IBOs out of 100k have quit Q/A. That leaves the majority wondering if they will stay or not. Actions like this last lawsuit, that, based on the above points, is frivolous, only hurts Q/A chances of hanging on to the rest of the IBOs involved.
Q/A couldn’t win shutting Team down in Kent County, and are moving to Nevada. The statement above that Q/A has been on the defensive and are now moving to the offensive, conflicts with this blog. Q/A were you lying before, or are you lying now?
October 26th, 2007 at 9:32 am
Hi TexSpin,
Your mommy told me I might find you over here.
October 26th, 2007 at 9:40 am
#171
It’s standard business practice, at places of employment. We’ve been told by Q that we are business owners. When I closed my first business (not Q or mlm), I kept the names and numbers because it was my business. I brought those names and numbers to the second business I owned.
October 26th, 2007 at 9:43 am
It’s clear that Q/A is suing the TEAM because over 14,000 IBO’s have resigned their Quixtar business therefore drastically impacting the bottom line at Alticor. What they need to realize is that the 14,000 IBO’s that have quit will not come back regardless of the lawsuit, so this is really a waste of time and money. If this was the “opportunity” that they say it is, they wouldn’t be trying so hard to shut down a BSM company that has no business volume.
October 26th, 2007 at 9:45 am
Clarification on my last post:
“2nd, Team didn’t need to get the LOS from the Diamonds (former or not) or Q/A or any computer. Any IBO, or former IBO, would know who their mentors were. Team could delete any LOS information they have tomorrow, and within one month who is mentoring each member could be restored by each member quickly. I have seen no evidence that Team stole any LOS information.”
It is my understanding that prior to 8/9, anyone signing up on the Team website put in their own list of leaders/mentors, and that this information would not have to come from any Q/A LOS or any current or former IBO number. While the LOS information from the top down might be hard to reconstruct, Mentor/Leader information from the bottom up is not.
Since I have not seen any evidence that Team is violating any court orders, This additional lawsuit hurts my chances of renewing.
There are a lot of good people at Q/A and that are committed IBOs. I don’t understand why Alticor attorneys keep trying to ruin Q/A for anyone wanting to stay.
October 26th, 2007 at 9:53 am
Amway…all this legal stuff aside, people are leaving by the thousands. Does this not say something? People do not want the name Amway and people don’t want overpriced products. You can take it to court all you want. You can complain all you want. The fact is people don’t want to be part of Amway!
October 26th, 2007 at 10:13 am
TexSpin,
You and the Moderator are pretty cozy.
Administrator #93 Says:
“Tex: I’m pretty sure G meant something else altogether. Besides, how could we ever pay you? Your participation is priceless”.
Sounds like a true endorsement of both your TexSpin “facts” as well as your insults and name calling. A true sign of the Amway of the future.
So how much do you get paid for bloging?
That’s the BLOGING-FOR-PAY scam we all heard about.
October 26th, 2007 at 10:16 am
Ah, janedoe 199 has hit upon a very important point.
The non-compete rule means you just have to go build with another group of folks until the elimination period is over.
So, my TEAM ex- bros and sis’, go build your new orgs… Don’t sit and wait for the 6 mos or 2 years.
Your leadership will need your efforts — to fund their bills with Mr. Poyfair & Co.
October 26th, 2007 at 10:25 am
Hi TEX
Greetings from a fellow Texan.
I have finally arrived.
I have been called stoooopid by TEX.
Actually it is more accurate to say
Orrin and Chris signed up for auto renewal which states that you are bound by the rules of conduct, and that such rules of conduct can be modified without notice, and at some point in 2003 a non-compete clause was added to those rules of conduct, and legally they may or may not be bound by it, because the manor that this rule was slipped in is questionable at best.
I know for a fact that this is what happened.
Because that’s what happened to me.
If it makes you feel any better I will re-phrase my statement as follows.
I signed up for auto renewal as a convenience. I was unaware that the fine print stated that rules of conduct which I was bound could be modified without notice, I did not knowingly agree to be bound by rules that had not even been drafted yet. But nevertheless at some point in 2003 or 2004 a non-compete clause was added to those rules of conduct. The language of which is so vague that it can be interpreted to mean I am prohibited from joining another business for 2 and a half years after I resign. I never signed a non-compete. I never agreed to a Non-compete. And until this latest flap I was totally unaware that a non-compete even existed. In my opinion the language of this non-compete is totally unconscionable.
You can hang you hat on the Legal technicalities if you want to.
But I view the addition of this non-compete as a Despicable Legal trick which is void of morality and Legitimacy.
October 26th, 2007 at 11:23 am
TEX JUST SHUT UP!!!!!!
EVERYONE JUST GIVE IT A REST ALREADY!!!!
October 26th, 2007 at 11:51 am
I’ve gotta laugh at all the B.S. I’m seeing here. When my research shows that one party of this turf battle has lost 15 of the 17 or so lawsuits that have been filed I have got to laugh at their idioticy and wonder if Alticor/Amway shouldn’t be wrapped up in the nearest white saftey vest & escorted into the silent room for some psychriatic healing.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Rich #201,
I suggest you engage your brain and use some common sense.
If you change businesses, your close family and friends will probably know, and may ask you about it. You can answer their questions, but cannot invite them to join you for 2 years. If there are one or two occurrences of this, the corp probably won’t even notice. If they did notice, it would be hard to prove. However, if there is a pattern, especially a larger pattern, expect some questions and potentially an arbitration process.
You may now disengage your brain again, if this is too much of a strain.
ben #202,
We’ll see how “together” you are when the punishment comes down. I doubt very much you will want to “stand by your man” when that occurs. Do you remember how cocky you were when the case was in CA prior to getting booted out, and DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE? I do.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
Fig #203,
Not if you explain the facts to the prospects. There is a much larger international market now, so your perception of how much damage you are causing is probably smaller than you would like it to be, but thanks for another testimonial the Quixtar lawyers can tell the judge/arbitrators about when they consider damages. Keep it up.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
For those of whom to be still confused on what happened….here’s a comprehensive, un-biased link that explains alot!! http://barristerquixtarlawsuit.typepad.com/
October 26th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
FR #204,
Just to let you know Tex, I did read your insults, lies, and downright ridiculous insinuations, remarks, yada yada yada —- You read them, but did you understand them?
I too, would like to know who the likes of who you are and who appointed you GOD. —- I’ve answered this question. I am not God, but I am, as they say, “on a mission from God”.
My wife & I were not at Louisville. The most awesome Leadership Conference ever attended would have included some tool scam truth. Did Orrin tell you how he and his fellow lying cowardly “kingpins” clean up at your expense (literally and figuratively) via the tool scam? Who cares about talking respect, attitude, consideration, kindness and decency of others, when they are lying between their teeth? I’ve been to plenty of other major functions for over a decade and listened to all the flowery words you heard in KY, it’s all based on the tool scam lie. You come across as an arrogant egotistical (I’m trying to be nice pastor) blowhard who doesn’t know which end is up.
Approx 25,000+ attended the weekend. Freedom Hall holds 20,000 and it was packed - another building was opened up to hold the rest of the people in attendance and it was just about packed. —- I wonder how many of them knew they were being misled?
All the speakers, especially Orrin 2 speeches/teachings hit the ball right out of the park - way out. It was Tremendous! All the speakers were courteous, gracious, caring individuals who still, through all the garbage handed them over the past couple months, gave their hearts to everyone in attendance. Don’t get sarcastic either Tex. If you have a heart, maybe you’ll get the clue. —- I have a heart, that’s why I do what I do, point out the tool scam to the tens of thousands of people who went to KY.
That’s all you have? Nothing new, same garbage I’ve heard many times before.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
freedom #205,
… I think Orrin started something HE should have just walked away from. —- I agree with this completely, but Orrin showed his true character with his bonehead moves.
Orrin has said in many different ways and with many different analogies over the years, if you come at me, if you attack me, I’m going to defend myself and fight back. —- Too bad he tried to pick the fight first, with something MUCH bigger than him, and a fight he cannot win.
None of us know what happened in that meeting except the Diamonds and Quixtar people that were there. We can argue, but it’s all speculation. —- We know from documents and what both sides agree on what happened, and can draw reasonable conclusions from, so it’s not all speculation. In fact, there is very little and inconsequential speculation required.
None of that matters. What I know as fact, is that after the meeting, on the same day, Orrin filed a lawsuit against Quixtar. And not just any lawsuit, but one that got thrown out WITH PREJUDICE. —- It does matter, because it is part of the facts of this case. However, I agree the lawsuit being filed is THE important fact.
Now, if you are Quixtar, and you also share Orrin’s you attack me I will fight back attitude, what are you going to do? Just say go away? Of fight back? —- Pound all of them to a bloody pulp, legally speaking, not physically of course. Although if we ever met in a dark alley….
The question I come back to is this, if Orrin truly walked into the meeting trying to help IBO’s, never made a threat, never threatened Quixtar or did anything wrong, and at the end said, “I’m sorry you feel that way. I resign effective immediately. I will wait my six months and at the end will start my own MLM. I thank you for the years of service, but I can no longer in good conscience build this business.” Would any of us be discussing anything??????? —- We would be discussing something, and it depends if he truly walked away and didn’t try to take IBO’s with him behind the scenes.
Would Orrin have to contact anyone? Or would all the team IBO’s, with no influence from Orrin, quit anyway? If the only team information you could get was a statement on the team website that said, “We appreciate our affiliation with Quixtar throughout the years, but the team site will be on hold until February 9, 2008″ wouldn’t all the free thinking team people know exactly what is going on and quit anyway? —- I think this would have worked out much better for Orrin and Co., but that’s not where we are, is it?
So what did Orrin’s lawsuit do other than to push Quixtar into a corner that Orrin himself has said many times he would fight his way out of? —- It got him into a battle he will lose. All of his blustering doesn’t do a bit of good for him. He knows this now that he gave court testimony and faked his meek and mild temperament. Of of you who have been around know he was a completely different person giving the testimony that was on the news video clip.
Maybe Orrin should have said “good bye and good riddance and best of luck to you.” —- I think he realizes this now, but it’s too late, the damage has been done. Now it’s time to get the legal shovels out and bury him.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
FR #206,
Oh yeah, I forgot there was a part 2. I’ll do my best to stay awake to make it through this one.
People of integrity always stand firm and come out ahead shining above all others. I feel sorry for some of you who are still deceived by TEAM. Amway many years started out great and full of integrity. It got lost somewhere along the way with the tool scam, the tool scammers got greedy and forgot what the business was all about. What they also forgot was that people are loyal to honest people and their honest character, honest integrity, honest principles, honest credibility, honest honor, NOT the fake ones the lying cowardly “kingpins” are. Just for you FR, I happen to love the Q products and vitamins. What we’ve decided is we want to purchase from a corporation who doesn’t lie, continues on with childish “illegal pyramid lawsuits, breaks rules and thumbs their nose at them, etc. There was no “sneaking in” industry accepted non-compete rules and changes to the ‘plan’ (you should have read the rules, your upline should have trained you on the changes, and the IBOAI could have put out information as well), or foregoing the reason for the IBOAI (they give advice, not approval), or ignoring the wishes and suggestions of all their IBOs (not this IBO, I agree with ALL the changes), or changes that were set up for ‘changing lines of sponsorships’ to limiting and shackling of Independent Business Owners who choose to leave the Corporation (more BS), not just a line of sponsorship. I’ve watched the prices, the comparisons, have had my own issues and discussions with Q regarding prices going up only to be seeing changes happening; Vitamins kept going down in price(such as the Daily multi-vitamins), while PV stayed the same; BV may have gone up in conjunction with price, but it took one a whole lot less money to get to the same pv bracket it took less money to do years ago before 1999 Quixtar (I agree with this last part, by the way. Just want to be clear with the facts. I have an early 70’s catalog that shows PV above the retail cost, but it doesn’t give BV. Perhaps an “old timer” can explain how it worked back then). I was good at helping people ‘reach’ their brackets. Could help people get their 100 pts for way under $200 - sometimes close to $150 and that included the tax and shipping (I agree with this as well). Nowadays, there is no way one can get to a bracket of 100 pv without costing them $240+ (this is also true). Formucare products mfg for Access Business Group come from the same mfg that supplies other Vendors for a whole lot less (I agree with this also, especially if generics are acceptable to you, and they are with me). I just purchased 240 tabs of Ranitadine for $6.00 from the same people who provide bottle of 30 tabs for Access Business Group - only ABG sells it for apaprox $7. You figure it out (I agree with this as well. Did you mean “Ranitidine”? I don’t use antacids, I have very little stress in my life and laugh a lot, especially when I’m on this blog, for some reason). When we sold or carried a particular litter also carried by Petsmart, Q sold it for twice the money - 30lb bag for $11.99 Petsmart; 2/15 lb bags for $30. Q tried to say it was 2 different items. It wasn’t! (For all the above examples, I suggest you not guy them. Quixtar never preached 100% loyalty, your upline did. This was so they could also scam with the idea of 100% tool loyalty and make the big bucks. If IBO’s didn’t buy the overpriced stuff, Quixtar would be forced to either drop the product or the price, problem solved.)
October 26th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
ben #207,
I agree the reputation has been damaged, mostly from the decades of being aware of and not cleaning up the tool scam.
FR #208,
You STILL haven’t brought anything new to the table, I hope part 3 is the last one.
Paper products, go figure it out. Paper products are high, but when you add tax and shipping and then special shipping it really get costly. Now get this one and see if you can figure it out. Q has their own papermill. They are able to produce their own paper products. They printed the Speigel catalog few years back. They boasted about it. So why do they charge everyone an arm and a leg for paper products they can produce on their own. —- See 100% loyalty comment on previous post.
We’ve been to the Nutrilite factory. cleanest and most impressive building facility I’ve ever seen. Maybe Tex works for Q and that is why he is able to say all he says, and insult anyone he chooses without any interruption from the blog administrator here. —- Are you trying to compare a clean building and my obviously witty comments? I don’t see the connection, but if you do, go for it.
Sorry, for getting long, probably won’t be seen here,. I just can’t stand idiocy running rampant and taking so many innocent people with it. —- Guess you were wrong again, here’s the message, it looks like in its entirety.
TEAM is just what it is - a Leadership Development source providing educational/motivational material for all and any who desire to learn how to be a better person and pass that learning on to others as in the movie ‘Pay it Forward’. —- You wish. It will be interesting to see if Orrin can make TEAM survive, now that he isn’t hiding behind the A/Q business. My guess is he’ll turn into a stand-alone “success” speaker/author like former TIF Diamond Andy Andrews did, except Orrin isn’t funny, just funny looking.
Product oriented people will never get it. —- That’s the problem, product oriented people is what is shown in the marketing plan, except when it is “hijacked” by the Orrinites and other lying cowardly “kingpins” who use it as a cover. We do get it, YOU’RE being scammed.
So I have a life to live vs being controlled and taken away from better things in life. this will be the last you hear from me so all of you please be safe, take heart, listen with an open mind and heart, let your ‘yes’ be ‘yes’ and your ‘no’ be ‘no’ - this is biblical - may be good idea to read it unless you consider that part of a ‘tool’ scam. —- No, I consider the tool scam to be a hijacking of the Bible as well.
I’m sure you want your surgeons, dentists, contractors, accountants, brokers, etc. who need ‘tools’ to utilize their ‘tool’s whether they be books, schooling, conferences, seminars, cds, dvds, etc., so they can provide you the best possible service available. But, maybe you consider all their ‘tools’ a scam for them as well. —– Those people aren’t our “business partners” or “teammates” who bait and switch us. You are so clueless I am happy to say only one thing to you and people like you….Bub-bye.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
Tex ,
Since you seem to have all the answers, maybe you can answer these questions for me, with pure fact and not opinions or insults. Please.
If I left Q* today or three months ago or didn’t leave at all, and I turned around and signed up with, oh lets say, AVON, Mary Kay, PartyLite, Lia Sophia, Pampered Chef or any other MLM, how would Q* know?
What if I was involved in another MLM before joining Q* and continued to keep that membership; now I have decided to quit Q*, am I breaking a rule because I am in another MLM?
So, what if I actually signed up with TEAM and their system before I ever signed up with Q*, and I now have left Q*. Since I was in TEAM first and decided to stay with TEAM, am I still breaking a rule?
Thanks
October 26th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
FR #209,
Repeat message. In fact, ALL of your messages are repeated from others who have already posted these thoughts. You should do more reading and less typing.
FR #210,
This is your second part 1? No wonder you’re confused, even your post numbering “system” is confused.
I received a very disparaging email from Q against TEAM and was threatened that I/we would be possibly in violation of something if we continued to follow TEAM. (think Q has things a bit turned around - they better look in the mirror) —- There was NOTHING wrong with the original letter, except to an Orrinite.
Q was court ordered to send out an apology to all IBOs - this never happened. —- Why didn’t Orrin’s attorney jump on this?
In fact, we never did receive an email from them or letter re: our registration, even though we emailed it, faxed it and then sent it Certified Mail. Took over 2 wks to receive the signed green card back from Q. We were kicked out of Q site though only about a week after we faxed/emailed our resignation in. —- I’m getting great service. Maybe it has to do with where you fall in the priority list. Like….the bottom.
One has to have access Q by the IBO # and password; once resigned, one no longer has access, so, how does Q keep referring to TEAM keeps using the LOS to do meetings, functions, etc. yada yada….. —- Because there are 6 month and 2 year rules you still have to comply with, that’s why. Are you really this stupid?
Meetings around the country stopped shortly after the Resignations/Terminations of Aug 9. There are no Tuesday meetings. —- Of course there aren’t any meetings, there aren’t enough IBO “victims” left to make the meetings worthwhile. Plus, the Opens would be a clear violation of the rules. Okay, I take back my earlier question. You’ve convinced me you are this stupid.
What TEAM leaders, leaders on the IBOAI requested was an amiable separation if they all could not come to some sort of agreement on the name change to Amway and lowering of the prices to be more competitive in the marketplace. —- This is blatantly FALSE. They broke rules, they wanted to break more on their way out, and followed through on their blackmail lawsuit. There is no “agreement” necessary on the name change, it was designed to have a global presence and as a side benefit, it got rid of you and people like you. I’ve already covered prices coming down.
Q refused to do any of this, they ignored the IBOAI vote against the Amway name being brought back; they even finally agreed that TEAM (Orrin/Chris) did not have an MLM ready to go and that TEAM in of itself is not an MLM. Did they forget that part? —- FALSE again. Who cares what the IBOAI thinks? They are a bunch of lying cowardly “kingpins”. We’ll see how far along Orrin and Co. is with a new MLM/network business when this gets to arbitration and/or court.
If there is an MLM business TEAM is doing, we are certainly unaware of it. We know nothing of any MLM business so I do not know what Q keeps referring to over and over again in the lawsuit because there is no MLM, no products or services whereby we can make any money. There is and never has been any type of new business talked about, promoted, or even hinted at. More lies from Q. —- As I said, we’ll see you in court.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
FR #211,
Another part 2?
The BDS held and the Louisville Conference deal with nothing but Leadership principles and skills in helping one lead a better life and preparing oneself for better things, whatever they may be. —- Of course it did, Orrin and Co. had to be on their best behavior.
Everyone is following the Rule 6 to the ‘T’, no ifs, buts, or whatevers. No one was coerced, encouraged, and all the other verbs Q uses in its silly lawsuit to Resign from Q and/or stop their autorenewal. We are all Extremely Loyal to our Leaders; something Q still doesn’t understand or comprehend. We all made a choice on our own. Please give us all that much credit that we all have our own brains and minds and can and do think for ourselves and do not follow a carrot on a stick just for the fun of it because we are told to do or else. —- So the woman who provided testimony under oath lied, and you have personal knowledge of everything you just said for every single IBO? Talk about playing God….
Talk about money hungry. TEAM never, NEVER in any lawsuit they brought in defending themselves asked for monetary damages. —- Read the lawsuit again. They left the door wide open for monetary damages, they just didn’t ask for any in particular, an attempt to take the “high road”, which fell flat on it’s face.
They and all of us just want to be left alone by TEAM and never be bothered by them again. TEAM is extremely unprofessional, unbusinesslike, unless one calls what they’re doing (cutthroat tactics) businesslike; money hungry, guess I better not stop - appears like they can say all the disparaging remarks they wish against all of us, which will all be used in the lawsuit.
Q, however on the other hand, is asking for all sorts of monetary damages - in fact everything they are asking for is not absurd! Some of may even border on being not going far enough. What, they’re trying to recoup all they’ve lost so far. they even and read enough of their own blogs that IBOs are leaving Q strictly based on the recent “illegal pyramid” behavior and how they themselves are limiting the damage themselves - they’re cutting off Orrin’s nose so he can’t smell how big of a stink he’s made, so they have even more ammo for the court and/or arbitration proceedings. Don’t you realize Orrin could have told all of his “flock” to not start any negative blogs, to not say anything negative against A/Q, etc., but he wants you to get dirt on your hands too, so that you’ll follow him on his next scam, because the Orrin pig know pigs stink, and he wants you to stink along with him.
Don’t mean to be long, but when you have 20 pages of jibberish to respond to, it takes a while and even then it’s hard.
Pricing? Q even agreed their prices were getting high and they would work on doing something about it but never did, not here in the good ole US of A. I’ve been emailing Q for quite a few years about high priced items. They ignored them. —- See above discussion, how many more times are you going to repeat yourself?
If Q doesn’t think they’re high priced, then why did they lower prices in the UK after the UK equivalent to our FTC went after them. —- Because they don’t wear halos in this mess, either. But their issues pale in comparison to the tool scam issue.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
I am continuing my 22 year realtionship with Q/A proudly as I believe that even with warts and all that this is the best opportunity for financial freedom. It freed me after 25 years in the work force of the need to work after 2 years, doubling my job’s salary. My husband was free 5 years later. Our imcome from the business is our retirement other than small ss checks. We have invested for many years in a bsm program willingly as it provides the environment that builds us and our downline and improves our “people skills” That small investment is part of our business expense. Very small compared to expenses in business as usual. We continue to sponsor, my pv/bv is up and we are mentioning Amway during the course of our presentations and have found that the ones with bias didn’t have the open mind and teachable spirit required to build this business anyway. The Team folks posting on this site are excited about the Leadership teaching they got I am just puzzled as to where they will be able to apply this? To a job? There lies the true enslavement in a free economy. Industrial age thinking. Didn’t they have to pay for all the materials and function travel etc? Since it is not a business now but instead leadership training only they will have lost the tax benefit for business owners engaged in an attempt to profit? Someone profited from the tool sales “SM” or not. Who gained? Follow the money trail! I am not surprised by all the resignations as it seems a lot of those folks never were educated about Quixtar/Amway in the first place and thought they were “in” Team. I have always known that my efforts were driving the market to Q/A for which I received fair compensation. I will end with this “Nothing more completely baffles one who is full of trick and duplicity than straigthforward and simple integrity in another. A knave would rather quarrel with a brother knave than with a fool, but he would rather avoid a quarrel with one honest man than with both. He can combat a fool by management and address, and he can conquer a knave by temptations. But the honest man is neither to be bamboozled nor bribed.” - C. C. Colton
October 26th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
FR #213,
Does Q even remember what Free Enterprise is or what it means. That competition is a good thing. What was the book one of their fathers put out ‘Compassionate Capitalism’ Free Enterprise, being an Entrepreneur is what true business ownership is all about. What Q wants is good little employees doing their bidding. Sorry Q, you are not what I/we started in almost 18 yrs ago. Not even close. —- Neither is the tool scam.
Well, my last 2 posts are under advisement - see if they’ll be allowed to be posted and then especially this one. —- You lose again.
Sorry Q, all these lawsuits and untruthful allegations are just making all of angrier and angrier and even the people who may have stood behind you are now getting upset and discouraged by you. —- Not me. See you in court and/or arbitration.
3 days in Louisville, never once heard a disparaging remark re: Quixtar. Since it was not a Quixtar event, and probably majority of those of there have Resigned and no longer IBOs, and not part of Quixtar any longer, Quixtar and its products had no place there in a leadership training and education and we’re no longer associated with Quixtar. —- Stop repeating yourself, it’s getting tiring.
Books we purchased are books one can buy at any book store and for the same price; don’t think there is any law of any type against selling wearable items with one’s logo; CDs and DVDs that are all about leadership, relationships, history, personalities, behaviors, information on how to become a better person, etc. —- Did you buy the books from outside sources, or through TEAM?
Funny how all this has been done for many years with Q’s approval and now it’s not. It was even approved under other IBO organizations and 3rd party BSMs are still approved and used by IBO organizations still associated with Q with no problem. —- It wasn’t acceptable before, Orrin has a 6 year track record. It wasn’t the content of the tools as much as the other practices. I think you know this, but who knows, maybe you’re not playing stupid, you just are stupid.
The plan that has been shown by TEAM and other organizations has been the same plan with slight variations on best way to build security, nonetheless, the same plan that has been shown for almost 18 yrs. A plan/concept that brought in an abundance of IBOs who are/were part of TEAM and other organizational names with no problem. All of a sudden, all these same concepts, way of doing business, plan, BSMs, are all now part of lawsuits instigated by Q. I just don’t get it and neither does thousands of others, apparently. —- You should get it, it’s very simple.
We’re all just very baffled by this onslaught of viciousness and attacks including personal attacks that are uncalled for. —- How about what Orrin and Co. did by lobbing the first salvo?
None of what is in that lawsuit is happening. Not from where we are. Not from what we saw and listened to at Louisville, or any BDS since Aug 9, or from any TEAM member, email or voicemail. In fact, emails and voicemails have been nil, nothing - all quiet. —- Perhaps you don’t see the whole picture, this wouldn’t surprise me by what I’ve been reading from you.
Good nite and God bless….. WP in AZ
All resubmitted…..I can’t believe this blog went from 56 to 400 in such a short time!!!!. —– What are you looking at? It’s less than 300. It did grow fast, mostly the garbage from you and other Orrinites.
October 26th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
AEM #214,
I have plenty. I also have the information for over a decade prior to seeing the TEAM system, and the similarities are striking. I have also seen Orrin at a major function, so I know more than you think I do.
AEM #216,
What you do is far clearer than what you say. How many non-Team affliated IBO’s are
leaving simply because of how Quixtar has treated their IBO’s? —- As many as don’t pass the IQ test.
FR #217,
Please remember why you all got involved in this business in the first place. oops, I remember - it wasn’t Q providing the positive teaching, encouraging words, books on relationships, friendships, hugs when necessary, a shoulder to lean on when needed, a very personal friendship & business relationship - people helping people, not people buying products; products if y’all remember is more of a side of what the real purpose to having a People Business. —- Sorry, I was shown a product business, and a product business was shown at TEAM Opens.
Rreading these blogs & all the lawsuits instigated by Q, you’d never know that the Founding Fathers Rich & jay started this business with all the encouragement, integrity, character and honesty of a professional business owner wanting to give people the same opportunity and to share that opportunity. —- The upline “shared” a tool scam.
All the blogging, especially here, all the Q lawsuits continuing with all the Hate of Orrin, Chris, TEAM & anyone associated with them, is way beyond and past the point of respect and Free Enterprise. —- No it isn’t, it’s called defending yourself, you just happen to be on the losing side of the truth and can’t see it properly.
Remember what Mr. Kruscheff from Russia said to us the USA - we will crush you from within. This is what is happening. —- Khrushchev is the correct spelling, and guess what, he lost as well.
Q wake up. You are doing the same thing. You are destroying yourselves, any IBO still there wanting to believe and succeed in business and follow their dream, and all who are around you. Shame on you. —- Shame on the tool scammers and those who support them.
Prove yourselves to be people of respect and decent integrity and stop all this foolishness before you have no one else to blame and you are forced to look in the mirror.
Bring it! —- They didn’t start it, but they will finish it. It’s already coming.
October 26th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
TEAM_MEX #220,
WOW, THAT GOOD IS THE FUTURE OF TEAM???
BACAUSE Q/A/A/? IT’S AFRAID ABOUT TEAM LEADERSHIP,IF THEY DONT CARE THEY LEAVE US,RIGHT???? —- They don’t care if you leave, just follow the rules on your way out the door.
PEOPLE OF A/Q/A/??/ THINK ABOUT IT!! —- They did. Bub-bye.
THEY ARE USING THE IBO’S MONEY!!! —- They’ll get it back, and then some, from Orrin and Co.
WELL,I DON’T CARE ME AND MY TEAM ARE FOCUS ON THE FUTURE OF TEAM,,,,,LANCE, HERE WE GO!!!
—- Lance is headed towards a cliff, good luck.
October 26th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Niki #225,
What’s the matter - can’t answer a few simple questions? You can harass everyone else about their answers but won’t play ball when someone calls you out. I think you’re a fraud - answer the questions without your lame when I’m platinum excuse (like you’re ever going platinum - that’s laughable). —- yawn.
What was your PV last month? And your bonus check? And how long have you been in? And how much did you say your net income was last year? Tell the truth now. I’m waiting… —- yawn.
October 26th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Shannon #229,
You know… all I gotta say to Q/A is quit your sniveling! This whole lawsuit is a whiny bunch of bull. This happened to my hair dresser. She was being poorly treated by her salon, so one day, she wasn’t there anymore. The salon told her that the clients belonged to the salon. Well, I liked the way she cut and colored my hair, so when I called to make an appointment, I found out what happened, and secretly found out where she went. My loyality wasn’t to the salon. It was to the hairdresser who I’d developed a relationship with, and wanted HER and ONLY HER to cut my hair! Guess what Q, you’re the salon, and I think I’ll follow my hairdresser to a brighter salon, wherever that may lead (I wish I could look into a crystal ball to see the new salon, but I can’t). But did the old salon sue the hair dresser and say “you stole our private information”? NO! Cause it’s a free country and I can go to any salon I CHOOSE! —- You don’t understand. You sought the hair dresser, she didn’t find you. That’s the difference, genius. Think about it.
No one coached me, no one cornered me, no one forced me… you basically pushed me to follow my hair dresser! I refuse to let you color my hair with “Amway” or condition with “Jay Factor” anymore! —- Bub-bye.
October 26th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Niki #225
Wonderful think this Net — all one needs to do is google for what you want, and you’ll get someone’s interpretation. Problem is, some folks take it for gospel.
As for your question, it appears Tex is (or was) a Founder’s 1000 at some point - likely before deciding there was no need for personal accountability to any part of his support team.
We now see the results of such self guidance … often wrong, seldom in doubt.
By the way, you may have problems with where the tools $$$ go Lone Star, but you also have some serious challenges with relatability.
That’s not the same as tolerance … another issue.
At some point you may come to realize folks are intrigued by the striking resemblance to Pinto Colvig.
October 26th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
John #230,
I have seen many of these questions asked on the IBOAI blog, and that is the main reason I was “banned” from that site. The best advice I can give is tell every IBO to get their $9 back, the lying cowardly “kingpins” can afford their costs via their tool scam profits. They don’t represent us anyway, they are much more interested in protecting their tool scam profit.
Quixtar doesn’t have to open their books to me, I have a contract as an independent contractor with them. I know how much things cost and how much I get paid.
The lying cowardly “kingpins” are an entirely different story. They claim to be our “teammates” and “business partners”, yet scam us on tools, making most of their profit on tools instead of what they tell us, from Quixtar.
It’s apples and oranges.
October 26th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Hi bloggers –
There’s an awful lot of hating going on. And mostly it is from people on the fringe or who are being paid to blog. I can see why a person could be angered by what is being said about Orrin and Chris, but it seems that Orrin and Chris have moved on. They are parleying their book into a leadership development business, which is not an MLM nor does it compete with a consumable retail business. Also, I can see why one could be angry being paid to blog. I mean if after slogging through law school and to only work my way up to name calling and baiting unknowing bloggers into stating something that the real attorneys can maybe use — I’d be upset too.
Just as Orrin and Chris have moved on, that is what people should do. They should strive to be a true Independent Business Owner, not like the IBOs who technically are employees of Quixtar/Amway per IRS code.
It seems that Quixtar/Amway is trying the oldest trick in the big guy versus little guy legal handbook – make them use up their resources and bury them.
What Quixtar/Amway is trying to get is the exclusive right to anyone ever affiliated with the company. The fact that some of the people affiliated with Quixtar/Amway also chose to be affiliated with other organizations that are related to business and educate their members such as, Team, Worldwide Dream Builders, Mortgage Bankers Association of America, National Association of Securities Dealers, National Medical Association, Michigan Bar Association or otherwise, should not matter to Quixtar/Amway. That is if they believe in the American Way.
I mean by definition, others cannot know proprietary information before it is known to the company claiming it as property. In this case, the people being accused had to have known the information prior to the company because they gave the information to the company. Yet an army of staff lawyers can make this absurd argument into a lengthy and very costly battle.
My last thought on this subject, this is the classic fine-a-scapegoat-who-can-be-a-catalyst-to-executing-a-business-strategy ploy. Quixtar/Amway is already competing with its IBOs in the makeup market and in no doubt looking to exit the IBO strategy all together. Yet there are thousands of IBOs who rely on the income they generate, no matter how small, and believed that Quixtar/Amway would continue their current IBO course for generations. They are out of luck. By using Orrin, Quixtar/Amway is creating a pubic relations firestorm, which by their calculations will justify terminating the IBO strategy; thus, they will exit and have no obligations or fear of reprisal from IBOs because “It’s Orrin’s fault.” So for those who think Quixtar/Amway is acting stupidly, I beg to differ. They are acting self-destructively by design. Oh, and they want to deplete Orrin’s bank account along the way — just because they can.
The lashing out and the hating have saddened me. I’m sure that some Quixtar/Amway staff blogger will attack me. I don’t hold it against them – it’s their job. Some may even contradict my analysis, because until all the IBOs are gone they are right. I will say this, if Quixtar/Amway does plan to keep IBOs in North America for generations to come, let them put this in a legally binding document.
I just want to get the facts out and give people the lay of the land so they are not blindsided.
Thank you.
October 26th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
rico #232,
You failed the IQ test. Bub-bye.
(Yes, this isn’t tongue-in-cheek.)
Jennifer #233,
Nice try. Too bad it isn’t consistent with the contract you signed with Quixtar. All you’re doing is digging the hole deeper for Orrin and Co. You do know the Quixtar lawyers review this blog, right?
October 26th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Thunderdunce #234,
Just because some folks who read this are not IBO’s doesn’t mean he can say these things and not get in trouble, because there are also IBO’s on here. Do you practice as being as stupid as you can? It shows.
Also, the Moderator isn’t an “accomplice”, they are providing evidence to the Quixtar lawyers, just like Jennifer did in #233. Thanks for contributing your part to making a deeper hole to bury Orrin and Co. into.
October 26th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
what does Black water Dick Devos and Q all have in common…people that are paid to shut people up..or shut them up..good luck against Ted the sledge Nugent …..Thats is going to really heat it up in michigan..
I heard they are going to move to mexico. anyway…its better pricing there..help on the jay factor…
lets see you can have all the legal wins you want,,, Thousands have left already and who knows who is on the list next… is it world wide.. or Jody victor.. or YOU ..Im glad to see alticor is doing such a bang up job taking care of ( THE PEOPLE)!!!! Thanks alot..
still alittle confused on how 1 year orrin was the god of Q and then all this.. where does everyone else that is in all this fall..
Next thing youll see this soap in a box at walmart it will look like something youve all seen before…mmmmmm naah cant happen right!!!
October 26th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Tex# every post,
Just a few questions so don’t get riled up. I understand your position on tools very clearly, as I am sure everyone else does,but is this truly what this blog is about? Does the answer to every question really end in something about the tools? But, since you like the subject so much here goes.
If someone wants to buy tools, is it not their right to do so? What gives anyone the authority to decide what someone else does with their money. I have had a gentleman in my downline for 4 years that has never built the business, but has been on system from day 1, so 1 day I asked him why. He said that when he first started in the business he was depressed most of the time, and his son had told him that anytime he(the son) was feeling down he would listen to about 4 cd’s and that would bring him out of it, so he(the father) tried it and it worked. So he said he would always stay on system because he had determined that even if he never does anything with the business, he would always stay on system becuase he felt like it just made him a happier person. This person does not attend meetings or seminars and I only see him in the same social sense that I saw him in prior to joining the business. We rarely discuss the business unless he is asking me about a CD or book that he enjoyed. Would you take that away from him? Who is scamming him into buying tools, he is never around anyone to talk him into buying any tools? For that matter who is scamming someone who is going to all the meetings? TEAM has always admitted to making money from the sale of CD’s. (I don’t have the specific amounts so don’t ask) All businesses are in business to make money. To suggest that TEAM is scamming everybody is the same as suggesting that all 70,000 people are stupid, and I have a hard time believing that. TEAM also offers everyone an opportunity to share in the profits from the system. I am not a profit sharing member, but that is my fault for not building it big enough.
Now I know that you will have decided that I am a brainwashed dipstick, so here is what you can do to “unwash” my brain. Prove your theory.
Here is how.
Waiting to build until the “tool scam” is fixed is not valid. You own your own business, which means you can go out and build it the way you think it should be built and prove that you are right.
You are not required to participate in any “kingpins” system, so why don’t you go out and build a few teams without a system and prove it can be done. Be a leader, build the example, put your money where your mouth is, even Quixtar can’t agree with your opinions, until you prove it to them. If you can prove that a Q* business can be built without the motivational organizations than you give Q* the strength to go out and take care of the problems you see. Endless complaining does nothing for you or anyone else. Actions speak louder than words, you need to prove your theory.
All that said, I do enjoy reading your posts, I think you are very intelligent and you keep yourself well informed, but until you prove your theory with action and results, you will just be someone with an opinion.
I look forward to your response, and just so everyone knows where I stand, I agree with what TEAM is trying to do, I think that they were trying to make things better for everyone and when they finally felt that they could not get the necessary changes, they took a stand. They could be right or wrong, and I could be right or wrong, but I have choosen to resign from Quixtar and stay with TEAM, and if someone wants to civilly discuss why, than I would be happy to do so.
October 26th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Here’s part of a post if found on the above referenced blog.http://barristerquixtarlawsuit.typepad.com/ Interesting statistic!!
“If the products are marketable, why do 92% of IBOs quit within 3 years. If the products were marketable, certainly Quixtar would sell more than 3.4% of its total volume to customers, and certainly fewer people would quit. If the products were marketable, why would IBOs quit, ever. If they were getting what they believe to be a good bargain for their money, they’d never quit. Instead….
3.4%. And folks, that number is going down, not up. If you’re currently an IBO, as I am, you’ll notice their much anticipated “Simply Nutrilite” product launch. $30 (before shipping) for 12 eight ounce cans of a drink!! Oh my goodness!”
October 26th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Of course, the hornets nest keeps growing…this fiasco is adding to the hive:
http://www.jerryandmandy.co.uk/
October 26th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Tex,
Just an honest question. Have you ever had any negative feedback with the mention of Amway when prospecting people? Simple question.
October 26th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Tex #248
Yep, you just proved that you are a Quixtar stooge! Your problem with us is that we won’t disengage our brains, your statement shows without doubt that you are attempting to circumvent the truth and the facts and try and trick TEAM members into breaking Quixtars’ rules so that they can then claim that “those evil TEAM people are breaking our rules and so we gotta sue them and Orrin and everyone associated with TEAM to try and shut them down. Perhaps it is not I that needs to “engage my brain” if you think that I’m stupid enough to fall for that! It is typical though of a Quixtar stooge to think that anyone is that stupid!
October 26th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Tex you’re all talk and no action, answer my questions- they’re so simple and would add a lot to your (lack of) credibility on this blog. Afraid of a few questions are you? Maybe you’re just too embarrassed by your failure in your business and that is why you feel the need to bully people so.
Answer the questions already you big chicken:
What was your PV last month? And your bonus check? And how long have you been in? And how much was your net income last year? Probably the same as everyone else on this board- lost money. Grow a brain!
October 26th, 2007 at 4:29 pm
Thunderdunce #235,
In the end, all that will matter is you are gone, we are Amway, and Orrin and Co. is broke(en).
Utah #237,
See you in court and/or arbitration.
IBO To Go #238,
Really? She is deceased.
john #239,
Your arguments are meaningless, you need to read the rules.
Brad #240,
Some of the reasons for the lawsuit is to replace as much of the lost revenue as possible and leave no question Orrin is in the wrong, so current and future IBO’s can understand who was on the right side of the rules and the law.
Utah #241,
See you in court and/or arbitration.
Enough #242,
Amway…all this legal stuff aside, people are leaving by the thousands. Does this not say something? —- Yes, it says there are a lot of misled and stupid people who are IBO’s.
People do not want the name Amway and people don’t want overpriced products. —- Speak for yourself about the name Amway, and action is being taken on the product pricing.
You can take it to court all you want. —- Thanks, but they already are doing that.
You can complain all you want. The fact is people don’t want to be part of Amway! —- Bub-bye.
October 26th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
IBO To Go #243,
You and the Moderator are pretty cozy. —- That’s right, I read and apply “How to Win Friends and Influence People”. I don’t consider Orrin and Co., the Orrinites, the other lying cowardly “kingpins” or their supporters as people I want to be friends with or influence.
“Tex: I’m pretty sure G meant something else altogether. Besides, how could we ever pay you? Your participation is priceless”. Sounds like a true endorsement of both your TexSpin “facts” as well as your insults and name calling. A true sign of the Amway of the future. —- I’ve had posts not posted and others modified, and have criticized A/Q when I think it is warranted. You can’t push back on my facts because they’re accurate, so you cry and whine. You Orrinites throw insults at me, all I’m doing is returning fire. The “priceless” part should give you a clue how much I’m being paid to blog.
So how much do you get paid for bloging? —- You wouldn’t believe it if I told you. But I should get paid more than someone who can’t spell “blogging”.
That’s the BLOGING-FOR-PAY scam we all heard about. —- Really? What have you heard?
October 26th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Fig #250, I recommend you grab a dictionary and look up what “unbaised” means, ’cause you obviously don’t know.
October 26th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Richard the Lion-Hearted #244,
The 6 month and 2 year waiting periods apply to different groups of people.
bill #245,
Actually it is more accurate to say
Orrin and Chris signed up for auto renewal which states that you are bound by the rules of conduct, and that such rules of conduct can be modified without notice, and at some point in 2003 a non-compete clause was added to those rules of conduct, and legally they may or may not be bound by it, because the manor that this rule was slipped in is questionable at best. —- Are you saying that other Orrinites, such as Don Wilson, who were involved in previous cases where this rule was used against other IBO’s, wasn’t aware of the rule? And Orrin was on the IBOAI Board, a Diamond, and unaware of the change? Your argument isn’t even “questionable”, it sucks.
I know for a fact that this is what happened.
Because that’s what happened to me.
If it makes you feel any better I will re-phrase my statement as follows. —- No need to, you already lost.
I signed up for auto renewal as a convenience. I was unaware that the fine print stated that rules of conduct which I was bound could be modified without notice, I did not knowingly agree to be bound by rules that had not even been drafted yet. But nevertheless at some point in 2003 or 2004 a non-compete clause was added to those rules of conduct. The language of which is so vague that it can be interpreted to mean I am prohibited from joining another business for 2 and a half years after I resign. I never signed a non-compete. I never agreed to a Non-compete. And until this latest flap I was totally unaware that a non-compete even existed. In my opinion the language of this non-compete is totally unconscionable. —- Yes you did agree to it, you’re just too stupid to realize it. There aren’t any laws against you being stupid, perhaps there should be.
You can hang you hat on the Legal technicalities if you want to. But I view the addition of this non-compete as a Despicable Legal trick which is void of morality and Legitimacy. —- It was a rule put in place after the TIF fiasco. You should pay more attention or suffer the consequences.
October 26th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Rick #246,
TEX JUST SHUT UP!!!!!! —- Make me.
EVERYONE JUST GIVE IT A REST ALREADY!!!! —- Why stop now? We’re just getting started with getting rid of the rest of the lying cowardly “kingpins”.
mlt #247,
You need to learn the difference between a court decision and a TRO. It’s huge.
October 26th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
Fig #250,
For those of whom to be still confused on what happened….here’s a comprehensive, un-biased link that explains alot!! —- Tex.
October 26th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Moderator -
My post #253 of 2:24 pm has not been posted.
Is there something wrong?
Maxwell Smart
October 26th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Tex you have no class at all. How does it feel to be a paid blogger. Your words are not worth printing. Oh wait that is right Tex you know all. But guess what I still win because you can never stop what I am doing. Oh by the way have a nice day.
October 26th, 2007 at 6:00 pm
I think if orrin would have parted in that way it would not matter Q would still be doing something legal to try and slow him down if he admitted he was starting a comp. MLM but that is not the case I really think Q is scared that he does have a great agenda ahead of him and Q does not want a comp. like Orrin and all the other leaders who were huge in the Q biz.
Also is it true that since 99 that only emrald and above cam out of team?? I heard that was wondering if there was any truth to that?
October 26th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
Since I’ve been waiting for the moderator to post my submissions, I had time to read the dribble posted by Tex. I’m getting tired of having to correct Tex’s irresponsible analysis and the distortion of the facts; nevertheless, I would like to help him out and get him to understand that superficial analysis won’t help him in life. Perhaps someone can direct him to a personal growth system that could help him.
Orrin and Chris have walked away. It is Quixtar/Amway filing suits against Orrin. Now the 20 other people Quixtar/Amway damaged through their deliberate and malicious actions who have filed suit against the company are separate. Think people have been filing suit against Quixtar/Amway every year since the 1970’s. One might wonder why.
Now Tex, you keep bringing up that the suit filed in California by Orrin et al was dismissed “with prejudice”. Now if you know anything about law and know the case, why would you distort this. The case was dismissed because there is an arbitration clause. The “with prejudice” just means that the judge found something to rule on without hearing testimony, i. e.: the arbitration clause.
Tex, Quixtar/Amway’s reliance on arbitration reminds me a lot of the situation on Wall Street in the ‘70’s and ‘80’s. The brokerage firms required their brokers to resolve issues through arbitration, too. It took dozens of cases dismissed “with prejudice” before one insightful judge saw that the arbitration process was bias toward the brokerage firms. Only after this ruling could brokers get a fair hearing in court or a mutually agreed upon arbitrator. The arbitration process (similar in structure to Quixtar/Amway’s) was de facto designed to be financial onerous for a broker to engage, and since the arbitration firm is involved at the whim of the brokerage firm, few decisions when against the firms and regardless the broker was financially depleted.
If you want arbitration, let both parties agree on the arbitrator. Why won’t Quixtar/Amway agree to that? In short, they control and train their arbitrators and their unscrupulous actions remain hidden.
October 26th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
(#271) Tex,
Just an honest question. Have you ever had any negative feedback with the mention of Amway when prospecting people? Simple question.
TEX - YES, YES, YES!!! All the time. I would say the Amway stigma is the single biggest objection to the business by far.
October 26th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
Maxwell Smart #280: I also did a post that was #253 that obviously isn’t going to be posted. Guess they were too afraid to answer some questions!
Amazing how Tex has managed to be the author of 17 of the past 30 posts (#252 thru #282) that have actually made it online.
October 26th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Fuddman #282 -
Gonna say “nope” … pretty darned sure Dave & Kristen Dusault are not part of TEAM - sponsored by John Crowe (Kristen’s papa) — and, justin case you didn’t know … the originators of DOT1 STEP (who told Billy Florence, who then told Orrin & Chris …)
October 26th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
Moderator,
Was therespmething wrong with my post, at about 3:30 or 4pm today? I don’t see it and didn’t recieve any comment about it?
October 26th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
An honest question for all IBOS:
What has the IBOAI taken from you this year?
-Millions at $9 per IBO
-Millions more by their tools that are proven
success systems (Huh?) 96.5% failure rate?
-much of your life as you follow them
(never ask them to prove their income) Try
asking your platinum or emerald to
substantiate the net income they claim to
make) You will be told, “trust me.”
-If you are like 98% of the IBOs who are
honstly trying, they have taken nights for
plans and opens, weekends away from your
kids for redundant functions, dollars from
your pockets for incessant CD talk.
What has the IBOAI Board done for you?
Honestly, what has the IBOAI done for you?
If they are there to protect you as they claim, then who are they protecting you from? Could it be they are protecting you from Quixtar? Are they making sure your best interests are kept? Does that mean that Quixtar doesn’t have your best interest in mind? Honestly, IBOs there are two twins and one has a hand in your right pocket and the other has a hand in your left. They both want the same things from you: absolute allegiance and as much of your money they can get. My hope is that the response will not be personal attacks but honest answers to honest questions.
October 26th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
#282 Fuddman:
They don’t want a competitor like Orrin? Competitor for what?
Y’all need to make your minds up and stick to one story. Either you are creating some kind of competeing business or you aren’t. Which is it?
October 26th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
One more question: I humbly believe that the only way Quixtar/Amway can survive over the next few years is if they put a stop to the kingpin tools scams once and for all). I agree with Tex and Rich Devos tht it is certainly ok for a kingpin to make profit but it should be with some integrity (ie; as Devos himself said about 20% of income). So here is my question for all of you: If there is a dispute/split between your LOS (Yager, Britt, WWDB, N21, etc) who will you stand with? Who do you trust more, your kingpins or Quixtar? I think you may soon have to choose.
October 26th, 2007 at 8:08 pm
I love you Tex! Love you Tex. That is all we can show for you Tex. We love you where you are at and are not judging you one bit. Lets all show Tex our LOVE!……….WHo is with me!?
October 26th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
#282
What do you mean, only emeralds and above coming out of Team ?
I have personally watched ( and know ) many dozens of Platinums be recognized on stage between June 2006 and July 2007. Before that, I don’t know.
October 26th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Utah #237
I think where Orrin messed up, and not being a lawyer that could range anywhere from an oops to an illegal, is there was no organizational control.
My Diamond was on the IBOAI board with Orrin. Orrin and him do communicate.
It sounds like Orrin turned the blogs over to the PR firm. The little I did see, there were team people stating information that, if correct, would go against the lawsuits.
It sounds like Orrin turned over their website to whoever runs it. And according to my leaders there was stuff on there that again could go against the lawsuits.
It sounds like Orrin didn’t stop any Diamonds from running their organizations any way they wanted. After August 9th we had many opens including three I attended. All speakers and night owl speakers were terminated or quit before they spoke.
We had a monthly meeting where they did bring CD’s, books, and other team materials.
And my leaders were holding meetings telling people they quit, selling the team, and telling us things that, if true, would break the lawsuit.
Until the lawsuit is done we won’t know, but I can personally attest that some of the conditions of the lawsuit were broken by my leaders. Now the only question becomes could the team be held liable for those peoples actions? I would assume so since they are promoting the team. And if Quixtar got their hands on emails (If I had wanted to I could have forwarded an email with an open business meeting schedule right now), recordings (did any team leader leave a VoiceCom that got recorded and passed onto Quixtar?), or any other printed materials (from websites or anything else) that could be presented in a court of law, then the only other question is what can legally be done to the team and/or their business materials?
Here is the one main point that, even if I had wanted to follow the team kept me from even considering it, was if the team loses a lawsuit, could a judge rule that any IBO who was registered with Quixtar as of August 9th CAN NOT join the team for two years in compliance with the Quixtar rule?
If so, what are all the team people going to do for the next two years?
October 26th, 2007 at 8:59 pm
Negetive Nancy,
Great post, I am with you!
October 26th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
Page 8 of the Navada suit
“TEAM’s unauthorized use of Quixtar’s confidential information gives TEAM an unfair competitive advantage in the multilevel marketing industry”.
No, Team Approach does.
October 26th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
Moderator,
#270 at 3:23pm is still in moderation, I don’t see anything out of line, maybe something went haywire should I resubmit?
October 26th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
girl power need to read what i replied too not saying their is a comp. mlm freedome did but anyways going to a million haha
October 26th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
If we get fired at our workplace for be accused of doing something wrong, but really didn’t, we still would have loyal customers who really knew us follow us because they would know the truth and would rather work with a great person instead of a corrupt compnay that was up to no good.
October 26th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
Jason #298 and others with “where’s my post” questions for the moderators:
We’re doing our best to keep up with the surge of comments. Three of us share moderating duties, and it’s not a full-time job for any of us. So once in a while we arrive to see a 50-comment pile-up in queue (this morning it was 53), are mortified, and clear out the backlog as fast as we can. Safe bet to say that if you don’t see something in 8 hours, resubmit.
We delete VERY few comments – extra-long posts if we don’t hear back on a request to shorten; foul-mouthed, mean-spirited, topic-free invective; slurs (ZERO patience for those); and spam. Disagreeing with a comment isn’t a reason to delete it; in fact, we enjoy publishing first-timers’ comments that “You’ll never print this” with a sickly smile.
Hang in there with us, and we’ll do our best to keep up with you. Thanks.
October 26th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
Quixtar’s “Why” seems quite trivial, offbase and shallow. Sounds like another blind stab in the dark b/c they are reeling back in fear. I hope for there sake that they choose to open there minds and ask if maybe there justifications for there emotional “purposes” are worth pursuing. Put next to the causes that the Team Leadership represents. . . all I can say is WOW!
October 26th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
I was in for 20 years and got out to find something else–I did find team in late July I got in and sponsored several and then –you anounced the Amway change….. all of my downline who were at my house wanted to quit because of the negative connotation with Amway. One couple looked up the price comparisons and called me to tell me to tear up the check that they had given me. They said they could not retail nor even wholesale the products–I quit and asked for my $ back and my downline quit also because they told me they did not want to get into amway. None of us have received any of our money back.
October 26th, 2007 at 11:29 pm
#295 freedom,
I know after 8/9, Team didn’t cancel things immediately. It was only after a few things happened in court that they did. By the Time of the Kent verdict and clarification, the change was in place. Since then, I have not seen anything about any opens or contacting tools on the Team website, or email or voicemails once the change was made to go generic. Team specifically stated on the website not to disparage Q/A and to follow the rules.
You may have a rouge leader breaking the rules, I don’t know, but I haven’t seen anything from any mentors or Team. The Louisville “party” was generic leadership training, for home, work, church, whatever, with no new MLM even hinted at or swipes at anyone.
No one said to leave Q/A. One person of interest did mention a few items of world history that some in the audience felt applied to the current Q/A mess, but even people directly hurt by Q/A were nice.
I am thinking about 2 or 3 weeks after 8/9, it was obvious that Q/A wasn’t going to take the hint and change direction, that the contacting tools were dropped and the opens. That was on the Team website. The only other two websites I had access didn’t have anything, other than a few cobwebs. They have been cleaned of even those. One with nothing left, and another with access password changed, but after getting through that, nothing of interest and no meetings for the last year.
I was not happy Chris and Orin filed the CA lawsuit, but the terminations prior and the threatened suspensions after, along with all the lawsuits and the Go Team Go attitude have made me wonder if I want to stay with Q/A even just to buy products. I do know I will never get better leadership training than what Team has. Q/A will never build the people like the system has, or at least they haven’t in the last 16 years. Looking back, I have spent tens of thousands on system, and made hundreds of thousands because of it on my non-related business. I haven’t had a job for 11 years, and that wasn’t from money from the system or Q/A.
I understand why you might be mad at both sides, but I don’t see Team braking any rules.
October 26th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
Tex, Check it out. You are the reason some people are resigning (http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=164&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40#p3870) I’m sure you will take your demented pleasure in that, or join Alticor in the “no it’s not my fault, nothing is” game.
October 27th, 2007 at 12:05 am
janedoe #255,
Since you seem to have all the answers, maybe you can answer these questions for me, with pure fact and not opinions or insults. Please. —- This depends on the nature of the questions.
If I left Q* today or three months ago or didn’t leave at all, and I turned around and signed up with, oh lets say, AVON, Mary Kay, PartyLite, Lia Sophia, Pampered Chef or any other MLM, how would Q* know? —- They probably wouldn’t, unless your e-mail that you put on this blog identifies who you are, then they may check on you. However, if a large group of IBO’s left, they may at least spot check by checking around, although I’m not sure exactly how they would do that. Perhaps they have some agreements with other MLM’s.
What if I was involved in another MLM before joining Q* and continued to keep that membership; now I have decided to quit Q*, am I breaking a rule because I am in another MLM? —- You probably would have been breaking the rule when you signed up with Quixtar, if you didn’t drop the other MLM. Do you think this is very common, it sounds more like a rare and theoretical question?
So, what if I actually signed up with TEAM and their system before I ever signed up with Q*, and I now have left Q*. Since I was in TEAM first and decided to stay with TEAM, am I still breaking a rule? —- I don’t think you actually “sign up” with TEAM, you buy their stuff, and are regarded as their customer by Quixtar. A very profitable customer.
Thanks —-You’re welcome.
October 27th, 2007 at 12:20 am
Anne #258,
Well put. How much do you make at Quixtar versus tool profit?
G #264,
As for your question, Tex was an IBO getting ripped off via the tool scam, before deciding there was no need to feed the upline’s unethical and immoral profit center.
We now see the results of such self guidance … often right, seldom in doubt.
By the way, you may have problems with where the tools $$$ go Lone Star, but you also have some serious challenges with relatability. —- How would you know? You have no clue what my persona is away from this blog.
That’s not the same as tolerance … another issue. —- Do you think the lying cowardly “kingpins” should be tolerated?
At some point you may come to realize folks are intrigued by the striking resemblance to Pinto Colvig. —- You could only dream of being as successful as Mr Colvig.
October 27th, 2007 at 12:35 am
Maxwell Smart #266,
It seems that Orrin and Chris have moved on. They are parleying their book into a leadership development business, which is not an MLM nor does it compete with a consumable retail business. —- Good for them, where does this leave the rest of you, their loyal followers? Also, I don’t think Quixtar has their pound of flesh from them, so they will probably be a little lighter, especially in the wallet, before they are allowed to completely “move on”.
Also, I can see why one could be angry being paid to blog. I mean if after slogging through law school and to only work my way up to name calling and baiting unknowing bloggers into stating something that the real attorneys can maybe use — I’d be upset too. —- Who’s upset? This is fun.
Just as Orrin and Chris have moved on, that is what people should do. They should strive to be a true Independent Business Owner, not like the IBOs who technically are employees of Quixtar/Amway per IRS code. —- We’re not employees, what a stupid statement. Can you tell us which part of the IRS code applies that would make us employees?
It seems that Quixtar/Amway is trying the oldest trick in the big guy versus little guy legal handbook – make them use up their resources and bury them. —- Bingo. The reason it is the oldest trick is because it works.
What Quixtar/Amway is trying to get is the exclusive right to anyone ever affiliated with the company. The fact that some of the people affiliated with Quixtar/Amway also chose to be affiliated with other organizations that are related to business and educate their members such as, Team, Worldwide Dream Builders, Mortgage Bankers Association of America, National Association of Securities Dealers, National Medical Association, Michigan Bar Association or otherwise, should not matter to Quixtar/Amway. That is if they believe in the American Way. —- Exclusive right? Anybody ever affiliated with the company? What drugs are you on?
I mean by definition, others cannot know proprietary information before it is known to the company claiming it as property. In this case, the people being accused had to have known the information prior to the company because they gave the information to the company. Yet an army of staff lawyers can make this absurd argument into a lengthy and very costly battle. —- Just because you knew the information first doesn’t mean it belongs to you. For example, most companies own the patents their employees develop.
My last thought on this subject, this is the classic fine-a-scapegoat-who-can-be-a-catalyst-to-executing-a-business-strategy ploy. Quixtar/Amway is already competing with its IBOs in the makeup market and in no doubt looking to exit the IBO strategy all together. —- This is obvious to you? That’s funny.
Yet there are thousands of IBOs who rely on the income they generate, no matter how small, and believed that Quixtar/Amway would continue their current IBO course for generations. They are out of luck. —- Now I’m rolling in the aisles.
By using Orrin, Quixtar/Amway is creating a pubic relations firestorm, which by their calculations will justify terminating the IBO strategy; thus, they will exit and have no obligations or fear of reprisal from IBOs because “It’s Orrin’s fault.” —- Okay, now I’m almost peeing in my pants.
So for those who think Quixtar/Amway is acting stupidly, I beg to differ. They are acting self-destructively by design. Oh, and they want to deplete Orrin’s bank account along the way — just because they can. —- Now that last part is mostly correct, but it isn’t just because they can, but because it is the right thing to do.
The lashing out and the hating have saddened me. I’m sure that some Quixtar/Amway staff blogger will attack me. I don’t hold it against them – it’s their job. Some may even contradict my analysis, because until all the IBOs are gone they are right. I will say this, if Quixtar/Amway does plan to keep IBOs in North America for generations to come, let them put this in a legally binding document. —- Hit the road, you have no concept of reality.
I just want to get the facts out and give people the lay of the land so they are not blindsided. —- Thanks for the entertainment value. They say it is healthy to have a good laugh every day, and you gave me at least a week’s worth of health benefits.
Thank you. —- Oh no, thank YOU.
October 27th, 2007 at 12:43 am
Rick #269,
what does Black water Dick Devos and Q all have in common…people that are paid to shut people up..or shut them up..good luck against Ted the sledge Nugent …..Thats is going to really heat it up in michigan.. —- You better keep an eye on your surroundings, they’re out to get you now. What does Ted have to do with this?
I heard they are going to move to mexico. anyway…its better pricing there..help on the jay factor… —- Great idea. New Platinum trips to Cancun.
lets see you can have all the legal wins you want,,, Thousands have left already and who knows who is on the list next… is it world wide.. or Jody victor.. or YOU ..Im glad to see alticor is doing such a bang up job taking care of ( THE PEOPLE)!!!! Thanks alot.. —- You’re welcome.
still alittle confused on how 1 year orrin was the god of Q and then all this.. where does everyone else that is in all this fall.. —- Way ahead of Orrin. Quixtar was hoping he would turn around and start behaving himself, but he didn’t.
Next thing youll see this soap in a box at walmart it will look like something youve all seen before…mmmmmm naah cant happen right!!! —- Probably not.
October 27th, 2007 at 12:53 am
Jason #270,
Just a few questions so don’t get riled up. I understand your position on tools very clearly, as I am sure everyone else does,but is this truly what this blog is about? Does the answer to every question really end in something about the tools? But, since you like the subject so much here goes. —- Most subjects do have a root cause based on the tool scam, and I have challenged everyone on several occasions to test me, and haven’t had a single taker yet.
If someone wants to buy tools, is it not their right to do so? What gives anyone the authority to decide what someone else does with their money. I have had a gentleman in my downline for 4 years that has never built the business, but has been on system from day 1, so 1 day I asked him why. He said that when he first started in the business he was depressed most of the time, and his son had told him that anytime he(the son) was feeling down he would listen to about 4 cd’s and that would bring him out of it, so he(the father) tried it and it worked. So he said he would always stay on system because he had determined that even if he never does anything with the business, he would always stay on system becuase he felt like it just made him a happier person. This person does not attend meetings or seminars and I only see him in the same social sense that I saw him in prior to joining the business. We rarely discuss the business unless he is asking me about a CD or book that he enjoyed. Would you take that away from him? —- Why do you use a rare example in attempting to make your point?
Who is scamming him into buying tools, he is never around anyone to talk him into buying any tools? For that matter who is scamming someone who is going to all the meetings? TEAM has always admitted to making money from the sale of CD’s. (I don’t have the specific amounts so don’t ask) —- Too bad you don’t know, because this is the key question. But if you want to keep your head in the sand or other dark area, you have every right to stay stupid.
All businesses are in business to make money. To suggest that TEAM is scamming everybody is the same as suggesting that all 70,000 people are stupid, and I have a hard time believing that. TEAM also offers everyone an opportunity to share in the profits from the system. I am not a profit sharing member, but that is my fault for not building it big enough. — They talked you into that, didn’t they? That’s sad, but unfortunately you are far from alone.
Now I know that you will have decided that I am a brainwashed dipstick, so here is what you can do to “unwash” my brain. Prove your theory. —- That’s easy.
Here is how. Waiting to build until the “tool scam” is fixed is not valid. You own your own business, which means you can go out and build it the way you think it should be built and prove that you are right. —- Incorrect, I have already stated I do not want to spend my time, energy, and money on something that does not look like it will last over the long term. If you can’t debate this issue with me, you will get nowhere.
You are not required to participate in any “kingpins” system, so why don’t you go out and build a few teams without a system and prove it can be done. —- I never said I would build without a system, I said without a tool scam. Big difference. Big. Huge. Difference.
Be a leader, build the example, put your money where your mouth is, even Quixtar can’t agree with your opinions, until you prove it to them. If you can prove that a Q* business can be built without the motivational organizations than you give Q* the strength to go out and take care of the problems you see. —- See above, your assumption is wrong.
Endless complaining does nothing for you or anyone else. Actions speak louder than words, you need to prove your theory. —- See above again.
All that said, I do enjoy reading your posts, I think you are very intelligent and you keep yourself well informed, but until you prove your theory with action and results, you will just be someone with an opinion. —- One more time, see above.
I look forward to your response, and just so everyone knows where I stand, I agree with what TEAM is trying to do, I think that they were trying to make things better for everyone and when they finally felt that they could not get the necessary changes, they took a stand. They could be right or wrong, and I could be right or wrong, but I have choosen to resign from Quixtar and stay with TEAM, and if someone wants to civilly discuss why, than I would be happy to do so. —- I don’t care why you stayed with TEAM, they are a bunch of lying cowards.
October 27th, 2007 at 12:58 am
Fig #271,
“If the products are marketable, why do 92% of IBOs quit within 3 years. If the products were marketable, certainly Quixtar would sell more than 3.4% of its total volume to customers, and certainly fewer people would quit. If the products were marketable, why would IBOs quit, ever. If they were getting what they believe to be a good bargain for their money, they’d never quit. —- Most people quit because they only get help if they participate in the tool scam, then they get scammed, and most leave. Since the upline doesn’t promote selling, and even lies about the requirement to sell, 3.4% is actually quite high.
And folks, that number is going down, not up. If you’re currently an IBO, as I am, you’ll notice their much anticipated “Simply Nutrilite” product launch. $30 (before shipping) for 12 eight ounce cans of a drink!! Oh my goodness!” —- How would you know which direction that number is going? What do products cost that compete with those products? Why didn’t you list any of the other new products, and tell us which products they compete with, and how much those products cost? Get a clue.
October 27th, 2007 at 1:06 am
Fig #272,
That’s old news and the topic of another thread.
marc #273,
Of course I have, you need to read the comment from Anne #258. I feel the same way, and have expressed her feelings as an IQ test for people with that issue. All of the people terminated in the Orrin and Co. “illegal lawsuit” were in Amway, and now they’re too big of babies to go back? Bub-bye.
Rich #274,
What part of my answer didn’t make sense or was unreasonable?
October 27th, 2007 at 1:07 am
Niki #275,
Tex you’re all talk and no action, answer my questions- they’re so simple and would add a lot to your (lack of) credibility on this blog. Afraid of a few questions are you? Maybe you’re just too embarrassed by your failure in your business and that is why you feel the need to bully people so. —- Yawn.
Answer the questions already you big chicken:
What was your PV last month? And your bonus check? And how long have you been in? And how much was your net income last year? Probably the same as everyone else on this board- lost money. Grow a brain! —- Yawn.
October 27th, 2007 at 1:13 am
ibofb #278,
I think what he means, is he doesn’t realize how biased he is, so the site appears unbiased to him. Sort of like not noticing your own accent, and thinking everyone else sounds funny.
Maxwell Smart #282,
Check your shoe. It’s ringing.
Mick #283,
You have no class at all.
How does it feel to be a paid blogger. —- I don’t know, would you like to pay me, so I can tell you?
Your words are not worth printing. —- Of course not, the moderator said my words are “priceless”
Oh wait that is right Tex you know all. But guess what I still win because you can never stop what I am doing. Oh by the way have a nice day. —- What are you doing? (Of course, I already know, because I know it all, but I was just seeing if you knew what you were doing so I could confirm that I know it all, or something like that).
October 27th, 2007 at 1:16 am
Fuddman #284,
I think if orrin would have parted in that way it would not matter Q would still be doing something legal to try and slow him down if he admitted he was starting a comp. MLM but that is not the case I really think Q is scared that he does have a great agenda ahead of him and Q does not want a comp. like Orrin and all the other leaders who were huge in the Q biz. —- Yeah, I think you’re right…NOT.
Also is it true that since 99 that only emrald and above cam out of team?? I heard that was wondering if there was any truth to that?
—- I think there has been pretty good growth in TEAM since 99, but they had to cheat to get it, so it’s similar to a track star that sets a world record and gets caught for doing drugs.
October 27th, 2007 at 1:25 am
Tex, Interesting post, #113 I believe, about the non-compete clause that is standard in several businesses. There in one point you failed to mention though: those non-compete clauses are given BEFORE the contract is signed. I didn’t receive mine until AFTER I signed.
Oh and after hearing Quixtar was changing their name back to Amway, I made up my mind then to leave. It didn’t take any coercing for that. Bad reputation leads to no business future. Word-of-mouth is the best, and worst, advertising a business can have.
October 27th, 2007 at 1:26 am
MS #285,
Since I’ve been waiting for the moderator to post my submissions, I had time to read the dribble posted by MS. I’m getting tired of having to correct MS’s irresponsible analysis and the distortion of the facts; nevertheless, I would like to help him out and get him to understand that superficial analysis won’t help him in life. Perhaps someone can direct him to a personal growth system that could help him.
Orrin and Chris have walked away. It is Quixtar/Amway filing suits against Orrin. Now the 20 other people Quixtar/Amway damaged through their deliberate and malicious actions who have filed suit against the company are separate. Think people have been filing suit against Quixtar/Amway every year since the 1970’s. One might wonder why. —- They may have walked away, but they still have a rope around their necks. Did you not expect a counter-suit? Separate, but related, or at least as a result of Orrin and Co.’s “illegal pyramid” lawsuit. Because A/Q has deep pockets. Lawyering 101.
Now Tex, you keep bringing up that the suit filed in California by Orrin et al was dismissed “with prejudice”. Now if you know anything about law and know the case, why would you distort this. The case was dismissed because there is an arbitration clause. The “with prejudice” just means that the judge found something to rule on without hearing testimony, i. e.: the arbitration clause. —-Correction, I normally state it in capital lettering, like thus: DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE. That’s right, the arbitration clause meant it should have never been filed in court and wasted the court’s time and taxpayers’ money in the first place.
Tex, Quixtar/Amway’s reliance on arbitration reminds me a lot of the situation on Wall Street in the ‘70’s and ‘80’s. The brokerage firms required their brokers to resolve issues through arbitration, too. It took dozens of cases dismissed “with prejudice” before one insightful judge saw that the arbitration process was bias toward the brokerage firms. Only after this ruling could brokers get a fair hearing in court or a mutually agreed upon arbitrator. The arbitration process (similar in structure to Quixtar/Amway’s) was de facto designed to be financial onerous for a broker to engage, and since the arbitration firm is involved at the whim of the brokerage firm, few decisions when against the firms and regardless the broker was financially depleted. —- I actually agree the arbitration process is unfair to the IBO. In fact, the last time the process was examined in a court of law it was determined to be “unconscionable” (Kenny Stewart/Brig Hart), and I think it needs to go back into a court and get ruled “conscionable” before it is applied again. But Orrin’s highly paid lawyer didn’t take this tact, he went with “illegal pyramid” instead.
If you want arbitration, let both parties agree on the arbitrator. Why won’t Quixtar/Amway agree to that? In short, they control and train their arbitrators and their unscrupulous actions remain hidden. —- There are now provisions to use other arbitrators. Have you read the rules lately? Better plead the 5th on that one.
October 27th, 2007 at 1:35 am
MS #286,
The Maxwell Smart stigma is far worse.
janedoe #287,
Amazing, isn’t it? I must be the “teacher’s pet”, wouldn’t you say? Or maybe it has something to do with I SUBMITTED that many posts.
John #290,
Good questions. You know where I stand, right?
GirlPower #291,
It doesn’t matter, Orrin is going to leave them high and dry, just like Andy Andrews did.
John #292,
More good questions, I have a feeling the choice will be soon as well.
October 27th, 2007 at 1:40 am
Negative Nancy #293,
Get away, your breath stinks.
freedom #295,
You should forward your e-mails to Quixtar and let them know you will help them with the lawsuits against Orrin and Co.
There is a 6 month non-competee, which means you can’t join another MLM/network business for 6 months after leaving, and a 2 year non-solicitation, which means you can’t solicit a known IBO for 2 years after you leave Quixtar.
October 27th, 2007 at 1:46 am
AEM #296,
Your breath stinks, too.
AEM #297,
If you want to call cheating and breaking rules an advantage, I agree.
Big Bob #302,
Quixtar’s “Why” seems quite important, dead on, and perceptive. Sounds like another well researched lawsuit to keep Orrin and Co. reeling back in fear. I hope for Orrin’s sake that he chooses to open his wallet and plead for mercy. Put next to the causes that the Team Leadership represents. . . all I can say is WOW!
October 27th, 2007 at 1:53 am
ks in nc #303,
Sounds like you and your downline failed the IQ test. Bub-bye. You’ll get your money back, Quixtar is a little pre-occupied with other things, like servicing their IBO’s right now. The right priorities, if you ask me.
Utah #304,
I saw TEAM “braking” rules with my own eyes and ears, at several Opens and a Seminar.
October 27th, 2007 at 2:58 am
Tex- can you shorten your blogs a bit? I just skip over yours ,so that will make it easier to read everyone elses comments.Its funny because I have talked to a lot of people that do the same thing! LOL!!!!!
October 27th, 2007 at 3:02 am
I have seen a lot of blogs trashed because of ‘me’…
…put everything aside for a minute, and ‘guess’ who I am.
I have been an Amway distributor for 14 years. The best I have ever done is ‘about’ 10 downline and ‘about’ 1000PV.
After 12 years, I realized something was wrong. Obviously, without doing all the ‘core’ steps, such as actually getting a 6-4-2 ‘downline’…I can’t be a ‘diamond.’ But, I should be somewhere, right?
Nope. I’m not. So, I find the ‘internet’. I find that people make money selling ‘tools’.
It sucks. Here is the problem: either I am not a good ‘upline’, or the ‘system’ doesn’t work. I KNOW that I am an ‘emerging leader’ as far as Amway is concerned. I also KNOW that the system works! So, it doesn’t make any sense at all!
There MUST be an imbalance: tool profit. Must be! So, here’s what I do:
After spending more than $30K on tools in 12 years, I spend over $2K more on old tools I bought on e-bay. I KNOW the ‘system’ works – it just cost too much. I have over 12,000 tapes/CDs. I brag that they all say the ‘same thing’ – but they’re worth more than gold!
Why more than gold? Because they ‘work’ – they are just too expensive. I ‘invent’ a method where I ‘lend’ all the tapes/CDs I have to downline. I think this is genius! I write a letter – with a notary public stamp on it – to Rick DeVos saying that I am trying to ‘reclaim’ the 20% he says tools should cost by making them cost nothing, and this ‘genius’ idea is therefore ‘copyrighted’. Why copyrighted? WOW! You have to ask?
I expect the ‘kingpins’, once the ‘profit’ has been disclosed, to be forced to provide their ‘tools’ for much lower cost than me! In fact, they might actually do it for free! Guess what? I already ‘invented’ that! It’s ‘copyrighted’! I DEMAND both recognition as an ‘emerging leader’ and ‘big bucks’ from the ‘kingpins’ for using their own material!
How come you people aren’t on board?
Any idea why I am so stuck on ‘tool profit’?
Know who I am? …wait, I have more!
October 27th, 2007 at 3:35 am
My LOS joined TEAM. Whatever. Until, I heard about the new ‘stacking’ technique! After 12 years, I might actually get to be a Platinum…because someone other than me is recruiting! The ‘profit’ from ‘tools’ will finally be wide open for me to disclose!
Trouble is…I told my upline that I am NOT part of their ‘tool’ scam anymore. Guess what? No stacking for me. Oh, I still somehow get downline (14 years of STP – I should be good at it by now!)…but as soon as they get a whiff of me, they flee and request an ‘LOS’ transfer! That means, they still think TEAM is the way to go, or at least Quixtar is viable as long as I am not part of it.
Well, as long as I ‘make a profit’ buying my own products…I can wait.
I have another problem: Amway may declare my $35K of tools that I have in my basement ‘unlawful.’ I can’t ‘use’ them to help my downline (no-one). That kills my plans to get ‘a healthy check’ from the ‘cowardly kingpins’ for the idea of using their own training material at a no cost level (see my ‘copyright’ above – where if leaders actually train downline for no or low cost) because I should get a cut because I invented it, and am using it now with their own material!
Well, that’s not working. So, while it’s not ME that prevents me from having more than a $50/month from my Quixtar business after 12 years…I can’t accept claim for failure. It’s the lying cowardly kingpins. I WILL, on the other hand, accept claim for the number of lawsuits that A/Q has filed on MY BEHALF (I couldn’t tell you about them before…it’s over your head).
I’ll claim success that other people have done…because I don’t have my own.
October 27th, 2007 at 3:47 am
Its been a few days isn’t it time for a new post. Hurry up and file a new lawsuit or something this blog is getting to long.
Ohh ya allmost forgot. I am sending you my cell phone and address book. Sorry I didnt realize that they were full of your top secret information. I wouldnt want to get sued.
I will also be sure to send you names and phone numbers of any prospective IBO’s I meet in the future since that info would have been yours anyway.
Why does Q/A want to keep picking on all the other kids? What about all the people that havent quit? Maybe you should focus on helping them so you can hut that 12 billion goal? Well maybe the plan is to just sell directly to the public int the states. If so, I understand you dont want to look like a failure. Lets just blame it all on the distributors and fire them all, I mean give them all good cause to quit. Been working good so far!
My upline diamond quit last month. No it wasnt because of the team dudes. He has been building from the A days. He told me he wont to go through what he went through in the A days again. So I was OK with that because I have lots of good leaders even emeralds who would help me. Heck even got a crown I know personaly above that diamond. Well, I was wrong. I guess they all felt the same? All gone in the last few months for one reason or another.
So what was I to do? and no I dont want to be stacked somewhere else. Time to move on.
OK, now I got to wait 6 months looks like if I want to do any other MLM out there? OK I can do that no problem. Anyway I was wondering if I did go and decide to do something else and that person was also a IBO who quit. He cant talk to me for 2 years looks like. Well, good thing it doesnt say anything about me going to them and asking to join.
(Lost in Space)
October 27th, 2007 at 3:57 am
Fig, I’d notice that Team affidavit’s showed Team retailing at more like 1.4% - looks like you folk were a pretty significant part of any problem in this area. And if you guys were so much below average, there must have been guys way above average. Did Team ask any of the folk from other groups who were obviously successfully retailing to come in an train Team IBOs how to do it? If not, why not?
October 27th, 2007 at 4:05 am
moderator,
I wasn’t trying to bug the 3 of you, but in my case there were approximately 20 posts made after mine that made it to the blog after my post. Specifically #271 thru #298 were posted and my comment #270 was still in moderation and 6 hours had past. Like I said I am not trying to give you a hard time but given the situation I thought something strange was going on. I can certainly understand that you are busy and I appreciate the good job you are doing. Thank you for all your hard work.
October 27th, 2007 at 4:18 am
John 290
“-Millions more by their tools that are proven
success systems (Huh?) 96.5% failure rate”?
Yeah let’s talk numbers. . . First where did this stat come from? And how is ‘failure’ defined here?
Assuming the stat is legit and failure means you make nothing at all, if a little more than 95% of people are failures then a little less than 5% are not. Which meanns you’d need to build a network of about 30-35 people to not fail. The best part is once you have your 30-35, each one of them can get their own group of 30-35. So even though only 3.5% are successful at any given time each person has a 100% chance to become of the 3.5%.
October 27th, 2007 at 9:58 am
#325 Sorry you are in such a mess and that your upline Diamond walked away from you. That is not integrity..they promised you they would help you and support you not walk away. I am sorry. I hope you can find a great team to be on!
Tex, I still love you even if you did say my breath stinks….AEM you are awesome too!!! Lets just show the LOVE….there is so much negative talk on this blog……Love you TEX!
October 27th, 2007 at 10:11 am
Lajinito #305,
That link doesn’t work for me, I’ve been “banned” from that Commie site. Post the words here, so I can comment, which as you know I would be happy to do.
Hammer #316,
Tex, Interesting post, #113 I believe, about the non-compete clause that is standard in several businesses. There in one point you failed to mention though: those non-compete clauses are given BEFORE the contract is signed. I didn’t receive mine until AFTER I signed. —- Then you should talk to your sponsor, because if TEAM was doing their job in training people, they would have included that little detail, wouldn’t they?
Oh and after hearing Quixtar was changing their name back to Amway, I made up my mind then to leave. It didn’t take any coercing for that. Bad reputation leads to no business future. Word-of-mouth is the best, and worst, advertising a business can have. —- Good for you. You failed the IQ test. Bub-bye. That’s like saying the Baltimore/Indianapolis Colts suck, they hadn’t been to a Super Bowl for over 35 years. Guess what happened last year? If you’re so stupid you are triggered by a single word, like Amway, I don’t want to waste my time working with you.
October 27th, 2007 at 10:28 am
promiseland #322,
Tex- can you shorten your blogs a bit? I just skip over yours ,so that will make it easier to read everyone elses comments.Its funny because I have talked to a lot of people that do the same thing! LOL!!!!! —- Well here’s a Catch 22 situation. Should I respond to his/her questions? If I do, he has already told me he skips over my posts, so it would be a waste of time. However, he asks questions others may be interested in seeing, so I will go ahead and answer. Plus, the interest of truth dictates I answer. First, most of what I write is in response to others, and I agree I am probably the blogger who responds to most posts here. So, by definition my posts are “long”. Also, others have accused me of being paid to blog, and I wouldn’t want to let them down. Third, if anyone skips over my blogs they are severely misinformed. Fourth, if you do skip over my blogs, it takes very little time to page down.
Therefore, the answer to the question above is NO. The “lot of people” he is referring to are probably Orrinites, and I have no interest in pleasing them.
October 27th, 2007 at 11:22 am
Tex# 306
I will not reprint the questions and answers but will refer to them as ?#. So
?#1
For some reason I doubt that there are any agreements with other MLM’s…wouldn’t that somehow be sharing proprietary information, which is against the rules? If the IBO has to follow that rule, doesn’t Q*?
?#2
I just checked the registration form…there is nothing on it that states if we are in another MLM, that we cannot also be in Q*. If that is something hidden somewhere in the “rules”, then maybe Q* should require that all new prospects receive the “rules” before they can sign up. I know of MANY people that are in more than one MLM and were in one when they signed up with Q*.
?#3
Actually, you do “register” with Team, and you buy their leadership materials or you don’t. How Q* “wants to view” those people is irrevelant. If someone was a part of Team for months before becoming an IBO (believe me that has happened), then that person would view themselves as being a part of Team first and Q* second. I guess it is all in how “you” want to view it.
October 27th, 2007 at 11:31 am
AEM (328),
The number is actually 95.8%. It comes directly from a 2005 Quixtar report. It is reported on the Merchants of Deception website under MOD in the News. Now, Alticor is suing 30 John Doe bloggers for saying what Alticor believes is disparging Quixtar. Why isn’t Alticor suing Scheibeler who posted this Quixtar report? Because the number is true.
Now to the question of what is failure,
If a high school only graduates 4% of its students - Failure
If only 4% of McDonalds franchise owners stayed in business, McDonalds would be a - Failure.
If you scored only 4% correct answers on a test - Failure.
If only 4% of businesses in America succeeded, the American economy would be - Failure.
Thus, the brilliant Amway/Quixtar “best opportunity in the world plus the Kingpin proven systems of success = only 4% lasting even 5 years - Failure
Any business opportunity or training system that can only retain 4% is a failure.
And if the IBOAI and Amway/Quixtar really care about you, why haven’t they been honest and told you this? Why do you have to hear it from someone who has been crushed by them? Why if this is true, do you keep hearing from them that this is the best opportunity in the world when 96% fail?
October 27th, 2007 at 11:40 am
ibofb #326,
The answer is obvious. They didn’t care about retailing, because there isn’t enough time to consume massive amounts of tools AND retail. Also, I consider 3.4 and 1.4% to be statistically insignificant.
Jason #327,
I have had posts “vaporize” as well, and some of them were, I must humbly say so myself, brilliant. As they say, “stuff” happens. Repost your comment.
AEM #328,
I’m guessing a little here, but I think the 95% number comes from the confidential information that was leaked by the TEAM lawsuit. However, it is not an unusual number for MLM. The tool scammers use this issue to their advantage, in several ways.
First, turnover is desired, because they “front end” load the tools on the new people. After all, everyone knows the new IBO needs tools, right? Well, here they are, for sale in the back of the Seminars. How convenient. Let’s get them all worked up into a frenzy and turn them loose on the tool tables.
Because of the high turnover, there is very little “corporate knowledge” on the part of the IBO’s. They don’t typically stick around and find out what is going on, they quit and leave, so the scam can continue with “fresh meat”.
The leaders are careful to hold up the few success stories, rather than examine the overall success/failure rates and net profit for the typical IBO.
Othe than that, they are pretty good guys and gals.
October 27th, 2007 at 11:45 am
Negative Nancy #329,
#325 Sorry you are in such a mess and that your upline Diamond walked away from you. That is not integrity..they promised you they would help you and support you not walk away. I am sorry. I hope you can find a great team to be on! —- His Diamond (pin) was a wimp. Remember, Orrin and Co. walked away from their groups as well, but they decided to use an “illegal pyramid” lawsuit to entice their downline to quit as well. How do you know their Diamond promised them they would “…help you and support you not walk away”? After all, with all the tool scam money they made, they can afford to walk away, just like Orrin and Co. did.
I love you too Negative Nancy, I just don’t approve of what and who you believe in. Love you Negative Nancy (just not your actions)!!!
October 27th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
Tex,
Yeah, I’m not surprised that you would ignore my previous question (#273). I wouldn’t know how to HONESTLY answer it if I had the same line of thinking as you do.
October 27th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
tex 321,
“I saw TEAM “braking” rules with my own eyes and ears, at several Opens and a Seminar”.
Tex, either state what rules you saw Team breaking or stop saying you did. You can either list the rule it’s self or you can describe what you saw or heard, but more than just a claim please. You are a man of facts right? Let’s have them.
October 27th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
AEM (#328)
Here is another thought.
THISBIZNOW is a Quixtar website.
Quixtar always uses 2001 income data to show that the average IBO earned $115 per month (gross).
THISBIZNOW also has the 2005 bonus payments made to IBOs at $370 million.
THISBIZNOW also shows that there were 370,000 IBOS in 2005 who earned a bonus.
Thus, $370 million divided by 370,000 IBOs = $1,000 per IBO per year = $83 per month.
So in 2001 the avg IBO according to Q earned $115 per month and in 2005 the avg IBO earned $83 per month. This is according to Quixtar!
IBOs, you are going the wrong way. On average you are earning 30% less in 2005 than you did in 2001. And yet, this is the best opportunity in the world and the kingpins have “proven systems of success”.
October 27th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Does anybody reading this blog think that changing the name back to Amway will help their business or anyone’s business grow? If that was enough reason for you to quit, you didn’t fail the IQ test, you passed the awareness test.
It is not the company’s fault “Amway” has such negative associated with it. It is the fault of all the bumbling IBO’s that did stupid things like invite people over for ‘dinner’ then spring the plan on them, those are idiots that gave it a bad name. From a corporate stand point it makes totally sense to operate globally under one name, and I don’t think the name Amway is despised outside the US as much as it is within. But making that change put a serious hurdle in front of any North American IBO hoping to have a future in this business. At the same time, this could be the opportunity to make the name Amway into something good, and in 20 or 30 years starting in Amway will be just as reasonable a career path (in the eyes of the average person) as doing anything else.
October 27th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Tex,, you must be the smartest guy I know,, where do you live we could all sit around and listen to you… so wise so special. im sure your a treat to have at partys ….
at 1 pennie a letter your making alot right here… not making any money here now that is funny.. everybody just stop and listen to tex..
October 27th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Tex,
Do you think that the more you repeat yourself, the more people will start to believe you? I actually started counting how many times you have repeated the same thing, but stopped once I reached 150…
You could sum up all of your posts with a quick Copy & Paste of this generic response, save yourself a lot of typing:
“Will everybody just pretty please focus on the “tool scam” being perpetrated by the “kingpins” It makes the perfect camouflage for hiding the real issues! If I cant get people to believe me, I might lose my job as the Quixtar Head Janitor!!!”
I’m thinking about hiring an attorney of my own…I would like to see IP address records of all the posters on this blog and see how many come from Alticor…
“…But e-guerrillas who won’t own up to being bought and paid for in a commercial dispute so they can end-run a court of law are another matter. We invite them to come on out – and fight in broad daylight….”
Look forward to seeing MY subpoena
Who is with me?
October 27th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Tex 307 90% Q/A 10% tools
October 27th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
A book that illustrates the conflict. TEAM leadership is the Starfish and Quixtar the Spider.
http://www.starfishandthespider.com/
Sorry if someone has already posted this link.
October 27th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
forget about it.. it isnt worth talking about it.. tex has all the answers anyway..
October 27th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
AEM (#328),
I want to share one more thing with you. The 96% dropout rate is also confirmed in the IBOAI vs. Woodward case. In order for you to get 30-35 people who stay, you will have to to get about 800 people to sign up. (4% of 800 is 32). Would you agree that it would be very nice if you could get one out of two you show the plan to to sign up? Thus you will need to show the plan about 1600 times to get your 30-35. That is a lot of friends and family. That is 320 times a year or very close to showing the plan every just about every single day of your life. Take away the nights you spend at weekend functions, opens, and add in the time it takes to listen to CDs & read the book of the month - it is easy to see that your life will pretty much be Amway, Amway, Amway. It is no wonder the IBOAI doesn’t want IBOs to know about the 96% dropout rate. That must be the reason it was suposed to be a “trade secret” kept secret from the people they represent.
October 27th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Utah #304
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I don’t think my upline is “rogue” as much as they feel they can continue to build their business and not get caught.
They are using the term “prelaunch” when they talk to people. And just a week ago I was out and saw someone who quit Quixtar showing a plan and handing team CD’s to either a new prospect or someone who just recently joined his team.
That is the hard part. I see this stuff going on and you can’t help but question things. I’ve never totally agreed with either side, but my decision isn’t about either, it’s about me and my family and what is best for us. Just keeping up the fun. :0)
October 27th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
Another new item up for discussion is….the partner stores. Ladies & Gentlemen, has word gotten out there? Has volume with them already dropped significantly enought for them to start soliciting us directly? We have had a LARGE increase in direct email and catalogs(snail mail) mailed to us in just the past 10 days. I wonder if they will all leave like the IBO/ABO’s did when they hear the compnay is now Amway.
October 27th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
Nope, I’m not so stupid as to be triggered by a single word, but when I try to approach someone about the business, and the first thing out of their mouth is “is it Amway,” that speaks volumes about Amways’ reputation.
Why would TEAM “train me on that little detail” if I hadn’t signed up? Again, any reputable company would have a no-compete clause INCLUDED IN THE PAPERWORK (CONTRACT) YOU SIGN, not thrown in after the fact. Maybe Amway could make that little correction on THEIR contract?
October 27th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
Negative Nancy #329
Quit being so positive. Not only are you making me sick with your undying and unconditional love for Tex but you’re not living up to your name. Amway definitely is doing pretty much what they’ve always done with their dissidants and they are living up to their name.
October 27th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
You know gang, I usually just skip all posts by Tex because I have several children that occasionally have sissy fits and so I don’t need to read one. However, I happened to read one of his posts by accident (as long as they are, sometimes as I scroll I will unintentionally stop part way through the unintelligent dissertation and pick up a few words) and, correct me if I am wrong, but I thought for sure he wrote that someone should read more and type less. Isn’t that like Bill Clinton saying you should be more faithful to your wife?
Dear Q, I must admit, I can handle court system, all the crazy lawsuits, the crazy spin this blog does, the insults, the unfounded accusations, the e-mails to my downline saying I did things I did not do, and all the other things you’ve been doing, but don’t you think allowing Tex to type so much borders on torture? This guy is so bitter he can drink vinegar and say “what a finely aged wine”. Where is the intelligent discussion of which you write? He believes that anyone that disagrees with him is a liar, very much like my 4 year old daughter. It can’t be that someone has a different opinion or a different point of view. And the insults, can we please act as if we were adults? I know that would age Tex past his bitter and painful preteens, but lets try shall we? As a whole group, whether it be Q, team, both or neither, lets please have a civil discourse. Who knows, maybe, throught intelligent and civil communications, peoples ideas and beliefs may change, improve, or become stronger.
October 28th, 2007 at 12:10 am
Since the original post refers to typical business, Lets look at “Real World”.
15 years ago, someone I worked who quit and went out on his own. He wanted me to come to, and I said no. He tried to take clients and was successful in taking some. 6 months later he called back to come work for him and I said yes.
11 years ago, I quit my job and went out on my own. (Non related business to Q/A). There was no non-compete agreement, nor one typical in that profession.
That being said, I had already put my name in the yellow pages, opened up a checking account for the new business, obtained a small startup loan, and 2 types of liability insurance policies prior to quitting. I gave two weeks notice.
Based on ethics, I specifically didn’t solicit any clients that the other company had for 6 months after I left. I figured if they couldn’t hang on to them after 6 months of me being gone, they were fair game.
My last boss followed a 0 month anti-compete and a 0 month anti-raid. Bad feelings.
I did a 0 month anti-compete and a 6 month anti-raid. Better feelings, even though he didn’t do it.
Do I think the 6 month, anti-compete and the 2 year anti-raid in Q/A business excessive? Yes. Did I sign that I would abide by it - No. I was on auto-renewal long before they thought of adding the language they have now. I don’t think they even have a BSM agreement on file.
I would be surprised if the current language would hold up in court, as even banks that change interest rates without asking, do require 30 days notification and an opt out option if you don’t like the new rules.
If it would hold up in court, time to change the law.
October 28th, 2007 at 9:42 am
Just Go AmQuix, Just Go!
October 28th, 2007 at 9:53 am
http://chuckgoetschel.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/9/10/3230134.html
Any Questions? I can’t think of 1 reason to stay with AmQuix….Since we are going back in time, I would expect AmQuix to have us pick up products off the back dock at AmQuix on Spaulding Road and then do product pick ups all over again. I want FREEDOM and it is best described at www.drinkxs.biz
October 28th, 2007 at 11:50 am
AEM #337
I was with Tex when he saw the “breaking of the rules” by TEAM. They consisted of smiling, good attituds, a winning formula, great tools, and the concept of helping others. These all go against the “Tex System”
October 28th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
Utah #351
That is what will be the most interesting piece as this plays out. I’ll be honest with you, all of my direction came from my upline, not Quixtar. They contacted me, they got me to sign the form, and they were directing me.
Because my “leaders” did such a good job of “training” me this whole business was about edifying your upline, etc. I never knew anything else. That’s my fault, because I should have educated myself and formed my own opinions. Long story short, looking back, I realize my “leaders” were all about spinning any news in a way that would keep me from actually looking outside them for information.
Back to the registration: My leaders never told me anything about the registration or what was on it. That was up for me to read. Honestly, I was too excited at the time and didn’t. Now that I have here is what I see:
AUTOMATIC RENEWAL: Short version, I agree to automatically renew for a year and “further agree to continue to abide by the IBO Rules of Conduct, including the Arbitration Agreement, and all regulations and proceedures outlined in the Business Reference Guide and other official Quixtar literature, AS AMENDED AND PUBLISHED FROM TIME TO TIME.” To me that looks like they can “amend and pulish” on the website and leave it for us to read, kind of like my “leaders” left it for me to read the form. See below for more on this.
BUSINESS SUPPORT MATERIALS: Basically is says some IBO’s independently do the things they do and make money off it, and the decision to be involved is entirely up to me. What my leaders have done in the past prior to team was say they are not required UNLESS you want to be successful. That no one has had success without them. There has always been pressure put on people who don’t. I’ve always had a problem with that. And, from my experience once we joined the team, the people who were not on the BSM’s, the “big leaders” (Platinum and above) wouldn’t help you at all, because you were not “committed” to their system.
REGISTRANTS: Basically covers the whole back page of the form including: The rules “may be amended from time to time, and notice of any amendments will be published in official QUIXTAR literature and/or on the QUIXTAR Web site at www.quixtar.com.”
PROPRIETARY INFORMATION: Basically says we can’t use any of it for any reason other than what is authorized by the Corporation. Here is what I’m wondering…..Since the team and everyone else has IBO’s register with Quixtar, once that person is registered with Quixtar, no matter what else that person registers for or does outside Quixtar, does this agreement make their name and information proprietary?
The bottom line I keep coming to is this: Alticore/Amway/Quixtar has been in business for a long time. You don’t last as long as they do without making sure your business is covered from times like this. I’m no lawyer, but it sure seems from the things I’ve read the team is going to have to prove THE WAY things are worded and done are illegal or unfair, because everything I read basically says I agree to everything and I WILL NOT use any of the information the corporation istself does not approve of.
October 28th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
According to THISBIZ NOW (A Quixtar website) for FY 2005 there was $370 million paid out in bonuses to over 370,000 IBOs. Does that sound good to you? Think about this. Let’s say the entire $370 million was given to only the top 10% of IBOs. Don’t even count the other 90%. Ten percent of 370,000 is 37,000. So if all the bonus money was paid to only the top 10% it would be $370 million divided by 37,000 which is $10,000 per year or $192 per week. And that is gross! So if you don’t even have to pay a penny to 90% of your distributers and only have to pay the top 10% and all you can come up with is $192 per week? By the time the average top 10% IBO pays for CDs, books, websites, functions, Quixtar catalogs, opens, mileage, etc. - I am convinced the average top 10% IBO is Losing Money! Amway/Quixtar is a twin brother to the kingpin tools scams. Neither puts any money in the pockets of the 90%. Instead they both take it out.
October 28th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
John,
Thank you for making it clear what you meant by failure was dropping out. I thought you might be talking about people who don’t make very much as failures, you’re clarification makes my previous response (to that statistic) moot. The best business in the world should have way more than 5% sticking around for sure. Yes this business is hard very hard to build as it is, will become even harder with the name change to Amway, even harder still with the regulations on depth building.
October 28th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
janedoe #333,
#1. The contract Orrin and the Orrinites have with Quixtar has to meet the 6 month/2 year criteria before any new agreement can be entered into, so there can’t be any new “proprietary information” legally created with other companies. Therefore, there are no restrictions on Quixtar in this area.
#2. You need to read rule 6.5. I don’t think every rule needs to be placed on the registration form. If this issue is common, and I doubt it is, then perhaps it should be added to the registration form. The rules in general are downplayed by the upline, because it allows them to then break rules without being noticed by their IBO’s. I was even told reading/knowing the rules are a waste of time by upline, a far more serious issue than not having this issue on the registration form.
#3. Actually, you don’t “register” with Team, according to TEAM’s own testimony in a Texas court from mid-October from the freetheibo web site. You buy their leadership materials or you don’t get support. How Q* “wants to view” those people is revelant, because you sign a contract with Quixtar, not with TEAM. If someone was a part of Team for months before becoming an IBO (believe me that has happened), then that person would view themselves as being a part of Team first and Q* second, except they have no contract with TEAM, they are viewed as a customer of TEAM, again according to TEAM’s own testimony. I don’t guess anything, because it is all in how the law views contracts, not how anyone else wants to view it.
October 28th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
john #334,
The 95.8% number is not the only thing Quixtar is suing for, but nice try to pick one piece and try to make it about the entire lawsuit. You lose.
Also, this percentage isn’t much different than most other MLM’s, just for different reasons, namely the tool scam.
marc #337,
SURPRISE! See #312, and next time check before you accuse me of ignoring your previous question. I answered it HONESTLY quite easily, even though you said you wouldn’t know how to do this. You don’t have the same line of thinking because you lack facts and appear to be not willing to pay attention to the facts, let alone a response I already provided.
October 28th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
AEM #338,
I have listed what I saw several times already, you need to pay more attention. Or are you one of the idiots who skips over my posts and think this makes you better informed? For the umpteenth, I saw during these several Opens and Seminar not a single mentioning of the word Quixtar, either no mention of retailing or such a light treatment you wouldn’t come out with the understanding retailing is required to get downline volume bonus, and Orrin and Chris being given credit for what Quixtar actually does.
October 28th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
john #339,
How do you know the same definitions are being used for these calculations? Perhaps some people were getting paid that didn’t meet the definition of “Active IBO” in 2001. But nice try.
AEM #340,
As I have stated before, I am in favor of the name change, because I don’t think they can go back to Amway and survive in the U.S. WITHOUT cleaning up the tool scam. That’s why I’m in favor of the name change, even though it will be a bit more of a challenge, but not insurmountable. That’s what the IQ test is all about.
It is not the company’s fault “Amway” has such negative associated with it. It is the fault of all the lying cowardly “kingpin” IBO’s that did stupid things like show the A/Q business while secretly making most of their profit from the tools sold to the IBO’s. It is A/Q’s fault for not following up on the 1983 “Directly Speaking” tapes and taking the action Rich said they would take. The TEAM, TIF, and many other crises over the years can all be traced to the tool scam, and A/Q did not do the right thing to shut these scams down. Inviting people over for ‘dinner’ then spring the plan on them, those are also idiots that gave it a bad name, but this is minor compared to the tool scam. From a corporate stand point it makes totally sense (It makes totally sense? That doesn’t make ANY sense!) to operate globally under one name, and I don’t think the name Amway is despised outside the US as much as it is within, but this image can be changed with the tool scam cleanup. Making that change put a minor hurdle in front of any North American IBO hoping to have a future in this business. At the same time, this could be the opportunity to make the name Amway into something good, and in 20 or 30 months starting in Amway will be just as reasonable a career path (in the eyes of the average person) as doing anything else, or as a way to supplement your current income, if that is what is desired.
October 28th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
Rick #341,
Tex,, you must be the smartest guy I know. —- I know a lot of people smarter than me, you must not know very many people.
Where do you live we could all sit around and listen to you —- You don’t have to know where I live, you just have to read my posts on the internet.
So wise so special. im sure your a treat to have at partys —- I don’t know about “partys”, but I do enjoy “parties”.
At 1 pennie a letter your making alot right here —- I don’t know about at 1 “pennie”, but perhaps at 1 “penny” makes more sense. You mixed up penny and parties, perhaps what you really want isn’t a penny party, but a pity party. Boo hoo hoo, let’s all cry for your pity party, you stupid loser.
Not making any money here now that is funny —- What’s funny is how stupid you can be and are still able to type some words correctly.
Everybody just stop and listen to tex —- If they did, ALL of the lying cowardly “kingpins” would be GONE.
October 28th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
AEM #342,
Do you think that the more you repeat yourself, the more people will start to believe you? I actually started counting how many times you have repeated the same thing, but stopped once I reached 150 —- You should stop counting, and start comprehending. I repeat myself for the new readers, not for the idiots who can’t accept the tool scam truth.
You could sum up all of your posts with a quick Copy & Paste of this generic response, save yourself a lot of typing: —- Hi, I’m AEM, I’m stupid.
However, I do like your analogy, with slight modifications, “Will everybody just focus on the “tool scam” being perpetrated by the “kingpins” If I can’t get people to believe me, the will continue to get scammed and the A/Q business will eventually fail, at least in the U.S.” The Quixtar Head Janitor title is a good analogy, I am the one cleaning up the mess, and because the mess is so HUGE, we could all use an entire staff of “janitors”.
I’m not thinking about hiring an attorney of my own…I don’t care to see IP address records of all the posters on this blog and see how many come from Alticor…
Look forward to seeing MY subpoena. —- Unless you are already part of the lawsuit, you probably won’t be subpoena’d. But you are helping your position to look as stupid as it really is.
Who is with me? —- Crickets chirping in the background.
October 28th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
freedom #347,
You don’t think “rogue” is continuing “to build their business and not get caught”?
You should talk to Quixtar about these activities, they may or may not be breaking rules. The worst thing is to do nothing, because you don’t want to get involved, are afraid, etc. Quixtar can’t find all the issues, they need our help.
If you want what is best for you and your family, make sure you get the rule breakers identified and corrected. “Just keeping up the fun. :0)”, is not what this is all about.
October 28th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Fig #348,
It’s either that or it’s Christmas season, a time when many people get a lot of catalogs. Idiot.
Hammer #349,
Maybe they ask if it is Amway because you are wearing the same silly smile Orrin has on his face. When people ask, you don’t owe them an answer right away. You should first ask what they know about Amway, or ask them why they said that, then explain how Amway has changed. This will be a great lead-in to explaining Amway (finally) got rid of the tool scam, so the whole business model has changed in favor of the new IBO being able to make a net profit much sooner, and no longer having a bait and switch business, as it is now.
It would be quite a burden to require you to read every rule, although that is part of what you should do as a part of your signup process. The real answer is because they don’t want you to read ANY of the rules, because then you would know retailing is required to earn the downline volume bonus, and they don’t want you to know that.
October 28th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
Tex (#359, #361),
You are absolutely right, the 95.8% failure rate is not the only thing Quixtar is suing to keep secret. They are also suing to keep the McKinsey report (that shows their prices don’t compete) secret; also their 3.4% retail rate which basically says they are an internal comsumption model) among other things. Oh yeah, they are also suing because they are afraid of someone competing with them.
On your second point, we live in the age of computers & calculators. Furthermore, Quixtar is an ecommerce bsuiness. Why in the world would a big marvelous business in 2007 still be using statistics from 2001? Wy Tex? Because since that time, IBOs have consistently earned less and less per IBO. Honestly, the best a company can do is provide statistics that are 6 years old! So let me interest you in my business - here I’ll be right up front with you and tell you what we did 6 years ago! Tex, you lose.
October 28th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
Tex #365
Yea, that’s right. Explain the “new” Amway. “Hey , get in a business that calls you ‘their property ‘ and ‘cattle’, they will spy on you like its the cold war, they will kick you out whenever they feel it is appropriate, they will threaten you with emails, they won’t let you go to ANY event unless it is approved first, and , oh yea, they own you.”
I got asked the Amway question the other night and when I said “no” he said “Thank God”.
Also like you response that “When people ask, you don’t owe them an answer right away:, You friggin hypocrite!!! For months you would spout how TEAM is so awful because Quixtar wasn’t mentioned in meetings. Dude, you are the most sorry piece of ‘work’ I’ve ever seen.
October 28th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
John #356,
Your math is flawed.
How many IBO’s in your group to qualify for Platinum?
Now do your math using that figure.
There are no Platinums with 9 people in their group. So your 10% is way too high. Try 1%.
You say there were 370,000 IBO’s. We’ll use your numbers.
1% of 370,000 is 3,700
370,000,000/3700 = $100,000
I bet this is closer. Although some of the 99 in a Platinums group probably make money, the majority would be in the Platinum or above bonuses available.
Average IBO doing 50PV; Platinum needs 150 IBO’s. That drops your rate to less than 1%.
What is the average IBO pv in your group? IS your average downline IBO doing 75pv?
Your math assumes equal pv and pin levels. Look at the plan again.
You could earn a ton, just do 7500 without registering anyone. Retail it all. hehe
October 28th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
This is even without tool bonuses, hehe.
October 28th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
Ben #350,
Don’t be too concerned, Negative Nancy is not being honest, she has already proven she has earned and lived down to the Negative Nancy name. Amway definitely is doing pretty much what they’ve always done with their rule breakers, and have given them plenty of time to correct themselves, then terminated them.
john #351,
Not even close to your Bill Clinton example, because I actually read the other posts, which you have admitted you don’t do.
You think my posts border on torture? One of the moderators find my posts so funny they almost blew their drink through their nose.
If you want to have a more civil discussion, I’m all for it, but you have to commit to criticizing the other bloggers when they get nasty as much as me do if I slip up. If you can’t make that commitment, the deal is off. What say you?
October 28th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
Utah #352,
It doesn’t matter what your other experiences are, the 6 month/2 year rules are not excessive with respect to many other businesses, and would probably be upheld in court. You wouldn’t get to court in the first place, you signed up for an arbitration process.
The auto renewal includes a statement that you acknowledge changes can be made from time to time and you didn’t bother to read the changes, so you lose again.
October 28th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Check out this great video!
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=BostonTeaBerry
It was a great convention!! Just to see thousands upon thousands of IBO’s, cheering, happy to be able to pratice there american right to assemble, and speak. You should have been there.
The ’spys’ stuck out like a sore thumb. It was kinda funny!! KEEP TRYIN’!!
October 28th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Wow, looks like this has become the ‘TEX’ blog
October 28th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Chan Man #353/4,
Amquix doesn’t have to go, you’re already GONE.
Chuck Goetschel is a lying coward. He claims A/Q told him (and Ron Simmons repeated the same lie) not to disclose tool income, which is false. A/Q told them not to display the wealth that came from the tool scam if they decide not discuss how much tool scam money is made, because this misleads the IBO’s. The upline does a poor job of hiding their tool scam lifestyle, they just can’t help themselves. I don’t even agree with this approach, as it doesn’t make it ethical to have a tool scam just because you decide to hide it from your “business partners” and “teammates”.
October 28th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
Thunderdunce #355,
You’re an idiot. You have to get past the “smiling, good attitudes, a winning formula (for the tool scam artists), great tools, and the concept of helping others”, and examine the tool scam going on.
These all are consistent with the “Tex System”, except we don’t have the tool scam.
freedom #356,
That is what will be the most interesting piece as this plays out. I’ll be honest with you, all of my direction came from my upline, not Quixtar. They contacted me, they got me to sign the form, and they were directing me. —- Same thing happened to me.
Because my “leaders” did such a good job of “training” me this whole business was about edifying your upline, etc. I never knew anything else. That’s my fault, because I should have educated myself and formed my own opinions. Long story short, looking back, I realize my “leaders” were all about spinning any news in a way that would keep me from actually looking outside them for information. —- Ditto.
Back to the registration: My leaders never told me anything about the registration or what was on it. That was up for me to read. Honestly, I was too excited at the time and didn’t. Now that I have here is what I see: —- Same here.
AUTOMATIC RENEWAL: Short version, I agree to automatically renew for a year and “further agree to continue to abide by the IBO Rules of Conduct, including the Arbitration Agreement, and all regulations and proceedures outlined in the Business Reference Guide and other official Quixtar literature, AS AMENDED AND PUBLISHED FROM TIME TO TIME.” To me that looks like they can “amend and pulish” on the website and leave it for us to read, kind of like my “leaders” left it for me to read the form. See below for more on this. —- Yes, in fact our “leaders” could have fulfilled their responsibility to do the first part of “train and motivate” us by educating us on the rules. They could have easily done this within the first month, and Quixtar could have a rule that exempts any former IBO who resigns within a month.
BUSINESS SUPPORT MATERIALS: Basically is says some IBO’s independently do the things they do and make money off it, and the decision to be involved is entirely up to me. What my leaders have done in the past prior to team was say they are not required UNLESS you want to be successful. That no one has had success without them. There has always been pressure put on people who don’t. I’ve always had a problem with that. And, from my experience once we joined the team, the people who were not on the BSM’s, the “big leaders” (Platinum and above) wouldn’t help you at all, because you were not “committed” to their system. —- I experienced this personally, when we went off standing order.
REGISTRANTS: Basically covers the whole back page of the form including: The rules “may be amended from time to time, and notice of any amendments will be published in official QUIXTAR literature and/or on the QUIXTAR Web site at www.quixtar.com.” —- Yep.
PROPRIETARY INFORMATION: Basically says we can’t use any of it for any reason other than what is authorized by the Corporation. Here is what I’m wondering…..Since the team and everyone else has IBO’s register with Quixtar, once that person is registered with Quixtar, no matter what else that person registers for or does outside Quixtar, does this agreement make their name and information proprietary? —- Not sure what you’re asking, can you restate the question?
The bottom line I keep coming to is this: Alticore/Amway/Quixtar has been in business for a long time. You don’t last as long as they do without making sure your business is covered from times like this. I’m no lawyer, but it sure seems from the things I’ve read the team is going to have to prove THE WAY things are worded and done are illegal or unfair, because everything I read basically says I agree to everything and I WILL NOT use any of the information the corporation istself does not approve of. —- Bingo.
October 28th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
John #357,
If you didn’t have the tool scam, the overhead would be a fraction of what it is. At that point, the net profit would be much closer to the gross profit shown in the plan if it weren’t for the tool scam.
AEM #358,
The statistic is similar to other MLM businesses, and isn’t a lot different than traditional business failure percentages. Many traditional businesses “survive” (business exists, but is not making money) to five years only because the owner put so much money into the business to get it and keep it going, it is much easier to walk away from an MLM business where the capital investment is much less.
October 28th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Thanks Ben. I liked your message! I agree with you about Amway/Scamway…..
Tex, still love you where you at. Oh, back to the bad breath thing…I actually have perfect teeth according to my dentist..she says only a handful of her patients have never had a cavitiy…I am one of them! I brush 2 or 3 times a day…she said many people have a hard time brushing 2 or 3 times a week..SICK! Are you one of them? I hope not…Who out there brushes their teeth more than 3 times a week?
October 28th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
Tex,
You say that without the tools expenses, overhead would be less and net profit would more. I am glad to agree with you. However, I am afraid Quixtar doesn’t agree with us. I have very personally heard Quixtar representatives (including Vanandel and Devos) continually lavish praise on the Kingpins and their systems. At FED & major functions, the Q reps are always saying what wonderful leaders WWDB, Britt, Yeager etc. are. Look at Achieve magazine (a Quixtar publication) that lavishes the wonderful and fantastic leadership of the kingpin scammers. Sorry Tex, but Quixtar and the kingpin scammers are symbiotic twins who are totally dependent on each other. And who do they hurt, young college kids, single moms and struggling families. If Quixtar agreed with you, they would do to Britt, Yeager and WWDB what they have done to Team. So Tex, you and I agree on the tools scam. But Quixtar has allowed it to go on and on and on. Thus Quixtar is just as guilty.
October 28th, 2007 at 11:00 pm
Brad Obert (368)
I agree with you that 99% of IBOs lose money. I was simply making the point that if only 10% of IBOS received all of Quixtar’s bonus money, they would only earn $192 a week before expenses. By the way, the 370,000 number comes directly from Quixtar’s website THISBIZNOW. Also,if 98.5 of IBOs drop out in the first 5 years, then you will have to sign 800 people up in order to have 32 in your downline 5 years from now. I wonder how many plans you will have to show to get 800 to sign up.
October 28th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
Tex #312
Well lets see; to begin with, you spoke for the corporation stating what they will or won’t do (only someone with “power” in the corporation could do that), you advocate doing something that Quixtar has proven lately that they are going after anyone and everyone that does ANYTHING that they consider against them (anything that does not benefit them is against them, based on their actions). They will willingly attack anyone on the internet that says something bad against them in a blog and try to justify it by saying that it is that big bad Orrin that is making these people do these things.
In other words, Alticor/Quixtar is proving themselves without any doubt at all that they have become a “loose cannon” that has come unglued which is a shame considering the great history of that company that consistently proven themselves to be a company that is for the “American Way” (See a previous post about why I WILL NOT call them Amway EVER again). A company that regardless of any accusations, proved themselves to be men of integrity and outstanding character and now have begun proving that even people like that can turn and become the exact opposite of what they have stood for since 1959. No matter how this may turn out, Alticor/Quixtar will find that out, hopefully before it is too late and then it can never be reversed no matter how hard they try even if they cared to try. This is an end to an honorable company filled with integrity, honesty, caring and character. The company will still be there but this is the dawn of them creating a alter legacy for the company from this day forward! It actually is almost enough to make a person cry for the death of this integrity and character disappearance!!!
October 28th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
john #366,
Quixtar is suing for more than the additonal items you listed.
They aren’t afraid of competition, but the competition has to meet the requirements on their way out.
I agree they should update the figures, but apparently this study is only done every few years, and is only done to meet regulatory requirements, so it would be a waste of money to do it every year.
You don’t know it is “because since that time, IBOs have consistently earned less and less per IBO.”
October 28th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
Thunderdunce #367,
You’re an idiot, exaggerating and isolating statements out of context.
If someone has a problem with Amway, I say “Thank God”, because this lets me know right away they failed the IQ test, and I don’t have to waste any more time, money, or effort on them.
You are so stupid, thinking I’m a “friggin hypocrite” for asking another question prior to answering their question. This technique is taught and used in virtually every sales environment, not just A/Q. I said I wouldn’t answer right away, but would ask one more question to get some additional insight, prior to answering the question. There is no comparison between this and TEAM not mentioning Quixtar a single time during a 2 hour Open or a 5 hour Seminar.
Dude, you are the most sorry piece of ‘work’ I’ve ever seen.
October 28th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
Brad #368/9,
Good points regarding the 1% versus the 10% given by whats his name. Your illustration is much closer to how the numbers work.
This is also useful to consider in light of the tool scam. Only the 1% can afford to pay for the tool scam with their A/Q profits, most of the other 99% don’t make enough from Quixtar to pay for tools without taking their money from an outside source.
October 28th, 2007 at 11:49 pm
SPARTAN #372/3,
You only noticed the “stooges”, not the real spies. They were there, collecting information, but I’m sure TEAM was paranoid and on their best behavior.
Wow, looks like this has become the FactBlog.
Negative Nancy #377,
I still love you too Negative Nancy, but not “where you at”, because that would include your behavior, supporting the tool scam, which I totally disagree with.
I’m happy about your teeth, I happen to brush and floss once/day, occasionally twice. I also chew sugarless gum several times/week, which also helps with plaque and cavities. I had one cavity in my life, mostly due to deep pockets in my molars, and the Dentist then filled in the other 3 to prevent new cavities in the other teeth.
October 29th, 2007 at 12:57 am
Tex,
Thank you for answering my questions. A question about tool profits: How would you like to see the system set up? And where do you want to the profit going? What would your plans to fix it?
October 29th, 2007 at 12:59 am
ohh!! TEAM the best of the best……
i want to see your face in 02/08,please texy..
October 29th, 2007 at 1:22 am
#355 freedom,
The other point is Quixtar has not been posting notification of changes to the rules online.
They have kept an updated version online, but no online or other notice of the changes. Agreeing with changes without notice, may or may not have been in the 1999 Q/A Auto renewal agreement. It is now.
I also know that Q/A has people with no BSM form on file. For a list of ones in your org, you can ask the LOS system. It will also tell you who hasn’t renewed etc. I am sure the list generated would not be able to be released.
My main point is that it would be very easy for the Q/A rules to be illegal by the end of the year if congress clarified business laws to just made sure that Q/A had to follow what even Q/A named credit cards have to do: Give you 30 days notice and an opt out for changing the rules for your contract. It would have been a lot easier to fix the federal laws than the Calif. Lawsuit that was filed. Get 20,000 people to write congress would be cheaper than paying a bunch of attorneys. Isn’t 20/20 hindsight great!
October 29th, 2007 at 2:43 am
Tex #359
Okay, so you HAVE had negative comments on the Amway name. So how much better would a similar opportunity be in the future if you didn’t even have to mention the name Amway (because it really wasn’t) and the compensation was EVEN BETTER, and the prices were EVEN BETTER and the training would be EVEN BETTER AND MORE WELL ROUNDED and it grew 10 times faster than the traditional model? Also, you seem to think that all bsm’s are part of a tools scam. but if you completely agree with Anne #258, then you must think that tools scams are okay? or is just because some people were daring enough to step up to the BIG BULLY that is AltiQuixWay, you call their bsm’s a “tool scam.”
October 29th, 2007 at 2:55 am
I’m baffeled by what is being referred to as “Proprietary information”. Are my friends and family that registered under me Quicktar’s proprietary information? I think they would be taking my proprietary information.
The Finacial advisor’s field reconizes that the advisor has an interest in his “book” (the people that he had brought to the table).
Is it the books and tapes? It was pretty explicit that those were separate from Quicktar on the sheets given out at sign-up.
October 29th, 2007 at 5:06 am
OMG, What low steps will you guys stop at????
Please save your money that you’re paying the lawyers & just let us go. Why do you keep insisting that you “Terminated” both Woodward & Brady when 3 separate affadavits say they resigned first? One of them was even from one of your persons. What lie do you want to tell next?????
(Disclaimer: I thought this up all on my own & was not coerced into saying anything.)
October 29th, 2007 at 6:07 am
Amazed #153 said:
TEAM or not, I believe it is obvious that the “structure” of the LOS is actually NOT architected by Alticor at all. In fact, the LOS should be defined as Intellectual Property of each and every Platinum IBO or above; individually.
Piet says: On what do you base that statement? I am certain you didn’t just grab it out of thin air? Q/A did originally start the LOS you are in, so on what do you base your reasoning to allow you to take it away?
At what level would you allow your down-line to take their legs away, and “plug it in” somewhere else?
October 29th, 2007 at 6:53 am
this site is getting boring. Tex Tex Tex a lot of hot air and nothing really to say. I will go see what the other sites have to say.
October 29th, 2007 at 8:20 am
No response to Anne’s post #342, Tex? Is your worldview so set that perhaps you can’t even see the post because your brain says it can’t possible be true?
October 29th, 2007 at 10:16 am
Tex (381),
I DO know the average IBO earned less in 2005 than in 2001. I know because Quixtar posted the total amount of bonuses paid and the number of IBOs it was paid to. You do make a very good point that Quixtar only does this to meet “regulatory requirements”. This seems to be their only motivation to do anything. Until a government agency steps in, Quixtar is happy to let massive numbers of downline get lied to by kingpin scammers.
October 29th, 2007 at 10:52 am
John #378,
Quixtar agrees with this more than you may think, especially now that the DTI has come along. I have heard the same statements publicly, but privately I believe there is a very different story.
You have to separate marketing/PR from reality. For example, Quixtar tried to publicly support Orrin publicly right up until the end, but the problems he was having, many of them over and over again, could have been attributed to “rogue” IBO’s in his group and honest mistakes, right up to the point of him not wanting to even look at the corrective actions for the latest wave of violations August 9th. It wouldn’t make sense for Quixtar to publicly criticize any of the leaders, unless they were in really bad shape, now would it? In fact, if things were that bad, Quixtar probably wouldn’t even be invited to the meetings in the first place.
Have you read the thread on this blog regarding the UK? The U.S. is going along the same path, just a few months behind.
I want Quixtar to do to the others what they did to TEAM, and have wanted that for over 2 years. Now that the TEAM fiasco has brought this into the open, there is no choice. I also agree there was a symbiotic relationship, but that needed to be destroyed (which Orrin and Co. helped accelerate) before real progress could be made. Believe me, I don’t want this to stop with TEAM, and also think A/Q has acted incorrectly by not following through on the commitments made in the “Directly Speaking” recordings.
October 29th, 2007 at 10:56 am
Rich #380,
Well lets see; to begin with, you spoke for the corporation stating what they will or won’t do —- where did I say that?
I have said many things critical of Quixtar, they haven’t come after me, nor have they gone after anyone who is critical but not connected with the Orrin and Co. group that started the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit. Those comments are all over this and other blogs. You are WRONG.
October 29th, 2007 at 10:58 am
Piet #391
I recently met with a corporate IP attorney about a somewhat similar question for another business and earned the company, whom I consulted for, a considerable amount of money in IP licensing fees because I was successful in facilitating the definition of IP as the property of the individual or company who architected the property in question.
The LOS is a combination of personal relationships, which should be the IP of each person who makes a referral; and the methodology of building the LOS organization, which should be the IP of the mentor who is teaching that methodology.
I have never seen the Alticor/Amway/Quixtar management come to an IBOs home town to mentor them on how to build an organization effectively.
Therefore, I would expect that the proper ownership of the LOS should be split between the individual who referred people and that individuals mentor. In most cases, I would expect that to include each IBO and their upline Platinum or above that is mentoring them; with a limit to the nearest upline Diamond.
Even Quixtar recognizes the “ownership” and “responsibility” of the Platinum as the “leader” of their organization or “LOS”.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:00 am
AEM #385,
Thank you for answering my questions. —- You’re welcome.
A question about tool profits: How would you like to see the system set up? —- Transparency for the tool profits. Giving IBO’s choice which system they want to use, which will also lower the prices.
And where do you want to the profit going? —- To the upline, probably starting at the Platinum level.
What would your plans to fix it? —- Put so much pressure on the upline, the IBOAI, the corp, the government regulators, etc., that they are forced to fix it.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:08 am
TEAM_MEX #386,
I’ve seen enough of the TEAM scam, but thanks for the invite.
Utah #387,
I agree Quixtar could do a much better job of showing changes, such as including the changes in the front page “announcement” section and showing any changes less than a year old in a different color, with a revision line on the side, etc. But that is no excuse for crying foul on a rule that has been in place for several years.
I don’t recall if the agreement with changes without notice, was in the 1999 Q/A Auto renewal agreement, but I think it has always been in the original contract new IBO’s sign.
I also know that Q/A has people with no BSM form on file. For a list of ones in your org, you can ask the LOS system. It will also tell you who hasn’t renewed etc. I am sure the list generated would not be able to be released. —- I don’t understand this, please restate.
If you think getting this through Congress is easier than working through the courts, you are mistaken. Besides, there is nothing unreasonable about the 6 month/2 year criteria, and many other businesses, not just MLM, would protest and tie things up with their powerful lobby organizations.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:16 am
marc #388,
Okay, so you HAVE had negative comments on the Amway name. —- There will be negative comments on any name. Some people are critical of tall buildings, football, artificial sweeteners, you name it. What’s your point?
So how much better would a similar opportunity be in the future if you didn’t even have to mention the name Amway (because it really wasn’t) and the compensation was EVEN BETTER, and the prices were EVEN BETTER and the training would be EVEN BETTER AND MORE WELL ROUNDED and it grew 10 times faster than the traditional model? —- There’s a lot of assumptions here, I could give you the same situation with the Amway name and without the tool scam. We won’t really know until we do it, and there is already a decision on which way it is going to be, so use your energy to make the chosen path work rather than play these “what if” games.
The main reason I supported Anne was she indicated most of her income was from Quixtar, not the tools. Therefore, there isn’t a tool scam in her situation. However, I also asked a followup question about her upline, as she may be so low on the “food chain” she doesn’t profit from the scam, but others in her upline do. I await her response.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:27 am
Mediocrity Stinks #389,
The point is you can’t take advantage of the Quixtar organization to raid it and build a separate business. The rule protects all IBO’s against this issue.
Medicbob #390,
It makes no difference whether they resigned or were terminated. They have to follow the 6 month/2 year rules.
jack #392,
Bub-bye.
ibofb #393,
Actually, I did respond to her post, but apparently it didn’t get posted, or I made an error in posting. I asked her how much her upline made on tools versus A/Q, so I will repeat it below for her to see.
Is your worldview so set that perhaps you can’t even question the post because your brain says it can’t possible be true?
Anne # 342,
How much do your upline Emeralds and Diamonds make in tools versus A/Q?
October 29th, 2007 at 11:28 am
John #394,
Quixtar posted the total bonuses and number of IBO’s for both 2001 and 2005?