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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
October 17th, 2007 @ 10:22 pm ET…
One motion, one meeting
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
We were back in court in Grand Rapids today, seeking a contempt motion that would have halted a planned TEAM meeting in Louisville.
We don’t have the ruling yet—we’ll post it when we do—but the judge said he would not stop the meeting.
Not what we wanted to hear.
But it was one motion, and one meeting.
Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady are still under injunction.
The TEAM leaders we terminated still have a contract to honor.
Their California lawsuit, with its outrageous claims, is still gone for good.
They still have liability for the people and businesses they hurt.
And they still must arbitrate to settle this dispute.
We will prove these claims in arbitration.
That’s fine by us. Because the facts, the law and common sense are still on our side.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
October 17th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
Thanks for the update.
Glad to hear your fighting for IBO’s.
Keep up the good work. ^_^
October 17th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
“You were back in court, seeking a contempt motion that would have halted a TEAM meeting in Louisville.”
Why would you want to halt a meeting that has NOTHING to do with you? I think your hatred of Orrin Woodward has blinded you to how nasty and vindictive you are being. Crush Orrin at any cost–even if it means the rest of your innocent IBOs, the ones who were never affiliated with Team, all suffer the repercussions from trying to represent a company as viscious as yours.
“The facts, the law and common sense are still on your side?”
Your common sense is long gone. You clearly cannot see how you are damaging yourselves. The ONLY thing on your side is money. You can win every court battle, but you have still lost. Big.
October 17th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Why would Alticor want to stop a leadership development seminar put on by a business that is not affliated with them?
“They still have liability for the people and businesses they hurt”.
I’d say many more Team and other IBO businesses were hurt by the e-mails, blogging and more e-mails lying about Orrin and Team than anything Team did. More than 7 thousand have left, probably lots more to follow. I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but the reason I’m leaving has everything to do with the way Alticor treated me and other IBO’s and very little to do with Team’s actions. Like I said I was on the fence till I read “Just go, Team.” And it only got more immature from there.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
#2 LisBette,
Click on the “have a contract to honor” in the post. Read the first paragraph of the Conclusion on page 5.
Maybe then you will see why Quixtar views that the holding of the Louisville meeting would put Orrin et al in contempt.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
All I can say is thank GOD I am not an IBO with this company any more, I am so disgusted with all the crap and lies you are spinning. You want Team gone just let them go. You are only making your new(old) name of Amway a cus word to all of North America. Why don’t you try to focus on the IBO’s who are staying with Amway and help them build a business instead of all of this energy to “tear” apart Team and any of it’s leaders. Team is gone, what part of that can you not get a grasp on. HELP those who are left.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
You have got to be kidding ! I ( and many, many 1000s of Team members ) spend good money for a leadership development seminar…money we would NOT be able to get back…like airline and hotel reservations…and YOU want to cancel/stop us from meeting ?!
You have an issue with Orrin/Chris. Fine. But the very thing you CONTINUE to do….to penalize the rest of us just because we are affiliated with them is why we are leaving you in droves…it has NOT a thing to do with a SINGLE thing THEY have said or done to encourage us …YOU have given us all the encouragement we need to blog more, talk more, disparage you more.
WHO DO YOU PEOPLE THINK YOU ARE ? GIVE IT UP !
October 17th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Bridgett,
I guess you’re going to have to spell it out for us. I’ve read that paragraph many times, and I don’t see why it prevents a TEAM meeting like the one scheduled in Louisville.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
[…] would think that Quixtar would be quite upset with the decision, but they seem to be turning lemons into lemonade. Quixtar appears confident they will prevail when the judge issues his ruling on the accusations […]
October 17th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
“Because the facts, the law and common sense are still on our side.”
….False statement…I am definitely NOT on your side.
I do have to hand it to you though. I have not seen too many (I did see a few in college) Individuals or companies who will crow just as loud when they lose as when they “win”. Quixtar reminds me of the Knight in Monty Python’s Holy Grail who has his arms and legs both chopped off and continues to yell “come back..I’ll bite your ankles!” You get an A for determination OR an F in Reality Check…I’m not sure which one?
October 17th, 2007 at 11:24 pm
The court order says this ) is what the “defendants” are enjoined from doing….notice the word COMPETING ?
Defendants are enjoined from (1) using their Line of Sponsorship to sell, distribute, promote competing products, services, or other business, ventures, or otherwise interfere in the business of Quixtar or its IBOs; (2) soliciting, recruiting, or attempting to recruit other IBOs to Compete with Quixtar’s business or take actions not in conformity with its Rules of Conduct; and (3) disparaging or intentionally diminishing the reputation of Quixtar.
I can promise you that Q never gave ( or sold ) me any leadership training, so nothing competing there….and I can promise you there will be neither recruiting nor disparaging this weekend…as much as WE might prefer it
( I’m clearly showing my choleric side ), it will be something that Woodward/Brady would NEVER encourage or allow…even WITHOUT your lousy court order !
October 17th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
#4 Bridgett,
Maybe you best re-read that paragraph. Team does not SELL, DISTRIBUTE or PROMOTE a, or any competing product or service there is no business or venture that is “interfering” with the business of Quixtar or it’s IBO’s. The meeting in Louiville is a LEADERSHIP DEVELOPMENT meeting for anyone who wants to become a better leader. That’s all.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
It looks like some of you guys at Q should try to attend the meeting. You might learn some people skills. Hopefully if you got a ticket, you wouldn’t be turned away the same way new Team Platinums are prevented from attending their Platinum conference that they worked so hard to earn.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:52 pm
Dude Quixtar! That meeting has nothing to do with you! Mind your own freaking company and leave people alone in Jesus’ name!
October 17th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
Can I ask a silly question? Why do you want to so badly keep people that don’t want to stay? It’s seriously like you think this is a communist country or something. I mean really, think about it. Just let us go. Why all the law suits, and especially against anonymous bloggers!! It’s almost like East Germany… But you know, Orrin is very much like Reagan…. “Tear this wall DOWN!!!”
October 18th, 2007 at 12:00 am
#7 whatever
#10 dannie
and
#11 Scott
The Rule is:
6.5.1. For purposes of this Rule 6.5, “Compete” means to own, manage, operate, consult for, be employed by, or participate as an independent distributor in (a) any other direct sales program using a multilevel or “network” marketing structure, or (b) any other enterprise that markets, through independent distributors, products or services functionally interchangeable with those offered or marketed by the Corporation.
TEAM, the Leadership Development Service Provider, is structured in such a way that it fits in to the (a) description–any other direct sales program using a multilevel or “network” marketing structure.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:01 am
Q has taken its next step to selling its products in retail stores…just wish they would speed it up.
The Leadership Development meeting being held in Louisville is open to any non-IBO as long as they buy a ticket (sold out so don’t try now). A person can attend that meeting and gain useful knowledge for any line of work that they may be involved in.
First Q wants to stop bloggers freedoms and now they want to stop the general public from attending a leadership development meeting….how laughable.
The judge said he isn’t stopping the meeting so guess what 30,000+ people (some IBOs, non-IBOs and a lot of former IBOs, woodtv.com video said over 15000, and soon to be former IBOs) are going to converge onto Louisville and have a great time.
Can’t keep a good TEAM down!
Q, buh-bye.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:08 am
#14 The Closer,
This isn’t about “keeping people who don’t want to stay.”
You (and others) might has missed my comment from the “Message Forwarded” post.
Here you go…
Raiding is a BIG deal. I for one am grateful that Quixtar will go to such great lengths to protect my business.
Do you think this is new to them? They’ve been around for almost 50 years. They’ve had plenty of “leaders” use them and try to toss them aside like a prom dress.
We are talking about a GLOBAL community being affected.
We are talking about multi-million dollar IBOships which are WILLABLE being affected.
That means the legacy of children that aren’t even born yet are affected if Quixtar lets you literally and figuratively tear the business apart.
You, as an IBO are in many people’s downline. And what happens to your IBOship affects ALL your upline.
And what happens to the reputation affects ALL IBOs around the world.
And you think Quixtar is just going to let you walk (and try to walk all over them) without a fight?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:14 am
Bridgett
Defendants are enjoined from (1) using their Line of Sponsorship to sell, distribute, promote competing products, services, or other business, ventures, or otherwise interfere in the business of Quixtar or its IBOs; [The seminar is being put on by Team, which is not affliated with any business, so it’s all good on point 1]
(2) soliciting, recruiting, or attempting to recruit other IBOs to Compete with Quixtar’s business or take actions not in conformity with its Rules of Conduct; [Does not apply, no soliciting, recruiting or attempting to recruit anybody to compete with anything] and
(3) disparaging or intentionally diminishing the reputation of Quixtar. [This does not apply either]
And the main reason none of the points apply is because they apply to Orrin and his actions. Not Team as a business.
I got a e-mail from Q a little while ago telling me to report any upline pressuring me to go to events that competed with Quixtar. At the time it seemed pretty random, it made sense they were talking about Kentucky, but that wasn’t for a competing business. Now it makes a lot more sense. It’s becoming more and more obivous who is trying to hurt who’s business. I still can’t see why Q should care, I guess the Judge agreed (maybe not with that exact feeling, but the overall logic).
October 18th, 2007 at 12:19 am
Bridgett #18,
This is so far beyond raiding now. At the beginning I thought that Q was right and I had no doubts about renewing my business.
You are right, the corp has been around 50 years and gone this route before. The difference is they didn’t get it into arbitration to hide all the other non-Team IBOs from the case fast enough.
After seeing how Q has handled the Team IBOs and NON-TEAM IBOs I have decided that Q is no longer in my court. No one is “raiding” me, I’m leaving on my own free will. If in the future Team starts a company with products other than tools, I will research them and make a decision on my own whether to join them or not.
I repeat, I’M NOT BEING RAIDED, I’M MAD AT Q FOR THE TOTALLY UNPROFESSIONAL MANNER THAT THEY HANDLED ALL THE IBOS, NOT JUST TEAM IBOS. I believe most people resigning or not renewing feel the same way.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:19 am
Four things:
1) Why try to stop it? I know for fact people are showing “pre-launch” plans for a “leadership development” business. If I’m Quixtar I’m making sure as many “sleepers” as possible are getting in and documenting everything (anyone heard of recording devices and hidden cameras?). Go to Lousiville, get the dirt, then file the lawsuits against not only the team, but you will probably be able to add individuals who are going against the lawsuit brought into it.
2) I find it funny team people are upset that Quixtar is vindictive towards Orrin and Chris. Maybe instead of filing these kind of lawsuits they should file a baseless illegal pyramid lawsuit in California that gets thrown out with prejudice.
3) This is only my opinion, but I’m guessing this is only the start. There is the websites that could turn something up. The team still has until February to have someone slip up and give Quixtar some dirt. They have another year and six months for someone to slip up. My personal opinion is Orrin and Chris brought this upon themselves when they filed an illegal pyramid lawsuit……and Quixtar has deeper pockets to continue doing whatever they feel is necessary to protect their business.
And last……
4) Since the team has a problem with “non-compete” verbiage, that must mean anyone who signs up with the team can come and go as they please. I was personally told on the team you don’t get paid until Platinum and 50,50,25 paid $10,000 a month. So my take is this: $10,000 a month is $120,000 a year. If people can’t make money until an equivalent of Platinum, how long are they going to spend $100 a month without making any money. The team would be blogged all over the internet and brought up in lawsuits (like the BSM lawsuits Quixtar gets a bad reputation for) so fast it would be sad. And if you pay below Platinum, then the equivalent of Emerald just became a less than 6-figure income.
I’ve been asking this same question from my uplines who are on the team. Especially when I found out the Diamonds are not getting paid right now, and that they all (according to my upline) gave up over a half-million dollars a year in Quixtar money. How can Orrin take the old system and create a new system that allows them to recoup some of that half-million dollars they no longer have and still pay people at a low enough level to keep people engaged long enough to learn how to build their 2nd legs themselves?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:22 am
Here Here!!!
Get a clue! Alticor/Amway/Quixtar’s current management is doing more damage to the business than any LOA could ever do because of the ridiculous attempt to be a communistic monarchy! This is America! Any judge that makes an order to remove constitutional rights, other than for a temporary domestic wartime event, would never be re-elected!
Quixtar has lost thousands already, and every foolish move by the attorney brigade will just cost more bad PR and IBO’s. It’s approaching domestic terrorism!
I still hope that the founding families will pull their heads out of the sand, fire the idiots who are propagating the “war on TEAM”, and salvage what is left of the relationships! Unfortunately, it may already be too late!
October 18th, 2007 at 12:30 am
Let me clarify my #17 post:
This isn’t about the current people who no longer want to be IBOs. That’s totally fine. YOU JUST HAVE TO FOLLOW THE NON-COMPETE RULES.
What is so friggin’ hard to understand to understand about following rules???
Doesn’t your precious TEAM teach “The Power of Submission”?
This isn’t just about this one time in history.
This is about also making sure that it doesn’t happen again.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:32 am
well I say lets us go and have a battle? pizza hut, dominoes. Burger king wendys
Bring it on Q vs Anyother type of bussiness lets fight for whats right princables or money??? leadership or lawyers
in the end one is right one is wrong!?!?!
October 18th, 2007 at 12:32 am
Bridgett #15, and anyone else who thought the same way,
It is better to let the attorney’s handle the “legal definitions”, but just as an FYI… TEAM is a profit sharing business, not an MLM.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:40 am
You can’t stop an idea who’s time has come.Bridgett is the Team in your line of sponsership? What are you worried about? This is a volunteer army, People cannot be made to do anything. Especially in our business. Do you seriously think people can be forced to build this business? Give me a break.The more freedom YOUR company tries to take away from ours the more people are going to fight. For that I can actually say “thank you Quixtar” I would really be questioning your companies motives if I were you! I would be extremely upset at your company if I were on your side of this situation! Thank God I’m not! I pray for those who are left,sincerely
October 18th, 2007 at 12:43 am
Yes, if I want to walk I should be able to walk…without a fight. What country do you live in?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:47 am
Amazed #21: “Communisitic monarchy?!?” Dude!
October 18th, 2007 at 12:48 am
#17 Bridgett,
I can appreciate your points, seriously I can.
I’ve been involved for almost five years, building hard and trying to make Q’s and everyone else’s businesses profitable.
This is about keeping people who don’t want to stay though….
From our perspective, Q doesn’t care about us, the IBO, at all. You don’t have to look far to find out that Orrin has been trying to work with them for years, to make ALL of our lives and businesses easier. Just make the prices “somewhat” competitive!! If you haven’t seen http://quixtarlostmycents.blogspot.com/ yet, check it out, pretty telling.
So instead of working together to make the IBO’s business easier to grow and their business way more profitable, they simply terminated him and started to smear his reputation. Seems to be pretty bad business practices.
To be honest, I was a very strong supporter of Q until their recent actions. Even if I wasn’t involved with TEAM before, I’m not sure if I would stick after watching their actions recently.
From here it seems as if they only care about themselves, their huge profit margins, and NOT us.
But again, that’s just my perspective. If you still want to be affliated with Q, I wish you the best and hope that they never turn on you and your leadership….
October 18th, 2007 at 12:49 am
Bridgette,
I ( and thousands more…many thousands more )CAN NOT wait for February / March. I will legally be out of Q and they can no longer stick their nose in MY business. And I will not coerce, contact, solicit etc. any of my upline OR downline for the required 2 yrs.
BUT… Tex likes to say that Orrin will rue the day……
Right back at’cha, Q !
October 18th, 2007 at 12:51 am
I just thought of something interesting.
My upline Platinum (who said he received this information from my Diamond) said the Diamonds gave up over $500,000 a year in Quixtar money.
Either that is fact (as I’ve heard this many times) or the team leaders have been telling lies for a number of years (which would make me question their integrity and motives now). Let’s assume they are not telling lies.
They not only lose that money, but they lose all the corporation paid trips. These Diamonds have build a lifestyle of homes, cars, income and trips.
So you have Diamond level IBO’s who lose over $500,000 a year in income and all their free trips become out of pocket expenses.
The only way to get paid trips is to build those “perks” into the team compensation plan, but that would….take money from paying IBO’s.
They can’t make back that $500,000 a year without……taking money from paying IBO’s.
They can’t make the extra money to pay for what used to be free trips unless they…..take money from paying IBO’s.
They made their Quixtar money off over a million products and according to what I hear the intial launch will be limited products so most IBO’s will be shopping at Wal Mart, Target, etc. for the majority of their products now so they won’t make money there unless they……take money from paying IBO’s.
Every time I asked my Platinum what the Diamonds, what the team, would do with the compensation plan after the 6-month period was up they totally dodged the question. I asked many times where the income will come from once Diamonds start getting paid again and they dodge the questions.
What I know is this, the Platinums and above, since they would have been paid in the old system, have a lot of incentive to get me to stay with them and dodge all of my questions even though a couple slip ups lead me to believe they already know what the plans are. Because if I stay, and they change the compensation plan and it hurts me, they still get paid a lot.
I’m going to be really interested in March when my platinum fills me in on the details of what they are doing and how the new compensation plan works.
October 18th, 2007 at 1:11 am
Corporate Communications #21,
I am a Disabled American Veteran who voluntarily offered my life to fight enemies both foreign AND domestic; if you have a challenge with the likeness being presented of Alticor and a “Communistic Monarchy”, perhaps that issue should be taken up with the idiots who decided to ask a judge to violate my constitutional right of assembly.
If Alticor/Amway/Quixtar wants to ask, I would gladly testify in court how my consitutional rights have been challenged by them and how I am posting on an “open forum” without guidance from any of the leaders of TEAM. I used to have great respect for Amway, but not with these attacks on Americans’ freedoms!
October 18th, 2007 at 1:12 am
Why would Q/A cause what would be a hardship on thousands of people, most of which purchased their tickets and airline tickets prior to 8/9?
This is got to be one more step for Q/A trying to cause most IBOs to think that the people running Q/A are idiots and just want the rest of “Team” to Go.
The Kent County judge specifically said on the original suit clarification that as long as Team didn’t violate 1,2 & 3, that Q/A can’t do anything to hurt Team’s business. Q/A has been violating that order, IMHO, and if Ron Simmons is correct, they are violating the Texas injustion still in place.
This move wouldn’t hurt Team, (They already have the money for the tickets, and the tickets are a fraction of the cost of going) it would hurt tens of thousands of people, some of which are still IBOs, some of which aren’t. With airfare, hotels, car rental, the costs to thousands of people would be $ thousands, and do you think they would go after Team if Q/A shut it down, no, all of those would go after Q/A and any judge in the country would rule in the ticket holders favor.
Can you say that the attorneys of Q/A are idiots?
October 18th, 2007 at 1:18 am
Bridgett,
I admire your desperate love of Amquix. I however cannot believe your ignorance. You are completely lost as to what the Team is and isn’t. There is no LOS in the Team. There is no MLM structure of any sorts! One of the Team attorneys has stated on an affidavit that there is a plan for a business in the future but one is not completed at this time. These are all facts readily available for anyone to find in many of this blogs posts!
Quixtar is simply trying to vindictively attack Orrin! In the meantime, they couldn’t careless if they hurt the former IBO’s who have left. It is obvious that they want keep Orrin in court forever to stop a successful launch of the future endevour. This company isn’t looking out for anyone but the Devos and Van Andel families! Ask the IBO’s in the UK where their Diamonds were just terminated over a dispute.
I hope this isn’t to friggin hard to understand! Ridiculous unintelligent opinions such as your posts do nothing but confuse an already sad situation! So, when you sit down at breakfast with your brother TEX this morning..pray for guidance and understanding…you both need it!
October 18th, 2007 at 1:42 am
bridgett 22
Nobody has a issue with following clauses in contracts. If Quixtar is illegally operating then the contracts with those clauses would be non-binding. Therefore no non-compete no non-solicitation. The issue was legality of contracts, not inability to follow them.
I’ve never heard anyone from team use that phrase “the power of submission”. Never heard them talk about submission, heard them talk about following the system the same way you’d follow a receipe, but that’s it.
“This isn’t just about this one time in history.
This is about also making sure that it doesn’t happen again”.
Alticor shows no signs of figuring out how to prevent things like this from happening in the future. Their north american business has flatlined since about 1980, that’s a red flag. Every so many years a bunch of diamonds and above either quit or get terminated. That’s a red flag to. The answer to keep this from happening again is to listen to the IBO’s. Their finger is on the pulse of the business so much more than Alticor’s. Don’t send out threatening e-mails to thousands of IBO’s lying about their upline, saying they were doing things illegally and put you at risk of legal action. Then if they do that and a bunch of people quit, don’t sue their old upline for them leaving, have the presence of mind to identify their role. Also stop letting your teenage kids file their corporate comunnications.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:00 am
Bridgett
Quixtar wasn’t worried about raiding when several of my top IBO’s joined Meleluca and began rading my buisness. Or the ones that were recruting into 3 5 or more muli levels at a time. They had no interest in helping me then. Now they throw people out and some leave on there own accord to follow the people who got them in? They are scared becase these guys have money connections and know how to build this business. over the last 15 years TEAM and LEGACY have taken their turns as the two fastest growing groups year after year. As of last week all of my upline Diamonds Emeralds and Platinums have left. Many I have known for over 15 years. They have never led me wrong yet. So if they are leaving there is a good reason. And now my upline is someone I don’t know with no system no credibility. Yes its time to go.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:59 am
I am appalled at the actions of Quixtar,Amway, & Alticor. I have defended these companies for many years, I believed that the values of Rich Devos and Jay Van Andel were at the heart of the these companies. My mistake, you are acting just like any other valueless corporation. I refused to allow my children to buy “Pringles potatoe chips” by Proctor & Gamble because of the actions of their Leadership and Legal teams against Amway and certain distributorships. You are now making a mockery of the belief I had in Quixtar, Amway, Alticor. I thought Alticor stood for “High Core Values”? Shame on all of you.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:10 am
Amazed 21:
Dude, go back to school and learn the difference between tort law and constitutional law.
You have no constitutional rights to a business. Never seen that, unless you extend the “life, liberty and pursuit of happiness” notion.
This is a property rights issue in one sense. That is, the LOS info is proprietary property.
Oh, BTW, federal judges aren’t ELECTED, they are appointed for life.
Communistic monachy has to be the dumbest oxymoron I have heard lately…
And for Amazed #24:
Explain how a profit-sharing business and a MLM differ… Not sure what hairs you are splitting. If MLMs aren’t profit-sharing businesses, then I don’t know what they are called… JOBS?
What happened to Tex? Did he break a fingernail or something??
October 18th, 2007 at 5:50 am
“Communisitic monarch?!?”
Now *that’s funny! hahahahha
back to your regular programming ….
October 18th, 2007 at 6:33 am
Bridgett, You need to keep reading for context. Specifically read the subsections to rule 6.5. It will provide a little more insight as to perhaps why the court won’t stop the Louisville meeting (assuming the defendant’s lawyers did what they are paid to do in interpretting the contract rules).
Hopefully for the factory, not many people are really paying attention to all this and are going about their lives. But I suspect y’all are going to live with the ramifications of your actions over this for a long, long time.
October 18th, 2007 at 6:58 am
isn’t all this interesting? Amway started the week out by attacking freedom of speech. By the end of the week they are attacking our right to assemble peacably. And you call yourselve the American way. All that I see is that the leadership of “anti-amway” has spent to much time in Russia and China and don’t understand that men and women fought for the rights and spilt their precious blood so that we as Americans could choose to gather in a peaceful manor. I choose to resign because I have no passion for the name of amway and especially. now that I see the transformation to anti-amway.
long live our great nation and the basic rights given to us by our fore-fathers.
October 18th, 2007 at 7:09 am
I was either going to Louisville, or Ada this weekend. Free Men travel where free men will go.
No one on the Team ever told us we had to do anything concerning our IBO. We are free to chose.
Get over it.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:09 am
Leadership Development?
Yawn.
Most of y’all have proven, on the blogs, that you have lackluster leadership skills at best. Maybe you should buy a few more books and attend a few more seminars. Might be helpful, eh?
October 18th, 2007 at 8:29 am
#26 Rico:
No one is saying that you can’t “walk”. What are you waiting for? A Golden Ticket?
You can “walk” whenver you want. (Business Conduct & Rules eagerly awaits your resignation letter. What are you waiting for?) You just have to have a bit of integrity and follow the contract you signed. You did read it, right?
October 18th, 2007 at 8:32 am
Bridgett Says:
Let me clarify my #17 post:
[This isn’t about the current people who no longer want to be IBOs. That’s totally fine. YOU JUST HAVE TO FOLLOW THE NON-COMPETE RULES.
What is so friggin’ hard to understand to understand about following rules???]
A point needs to be made here, I would venture to guess that many IBO’s, including myself, did not even know there ws a clause that restricted me from competing. YES, as an IBO/entrepenuer it is my responsibility to read the fine print and understand that. But I never imagined that it would ever be necessary, so it would not have mattered to me…but this is NOT the business I joined 5 years ago. It simply is not the same. More rules, more restrictions, less ‘I’ in the IBO. The issue is that the corp is changing the very business I signed my no compete clause with…and I , nor the leadership, has a voice in any of it!
[Doesn’t your precious TEAM teach “The Power of Submission”?
This isn’t just about this one time in history.
This is about also making sure that it doesn’t happen again.]
We cannot forget to ask WHY so many are leaving? It is not because i am drone of the TEAM and follow as they do mindlessly….its because of the lack of focus of the trends of our industry..removing the voice of the IBO…no matter what A/Q, or ANY business, does in the future, it will happen again as they continue to ignore the very people that are generating the profits….ANY business should get what it deserves when it stops ‘thinking’….that is free enterprise…this aint ‘needle knitting Saturdays’ at the local hobby shop.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:38 am
The whole issue of who is right and who is wrong, who broke the rules, or who has rules that are unreasonable…those issues aside.
Alticor is their own worst enemy. They have created exhorbitant press about themselves that will be construed as negative toward themselves. The NBC Dateline pales in comparison to this.
Starting with “TEAM just go” until the lawsuit yesterday.
Quixtar sues bloggers- attack on freedom of the press, (I know their spin on that)
Quixtar seeks to stop TEAM meeting…(with more than 15,000 people ready to attend)..Attack on freedom of assembly. (I know their spin on that too)
I know, I know, it may not meet the technical qualifications of trampling on individual rights but that’s the way it will be intrepreted.
Can’t they figure that out? It would have been a blow to TEAM to have that meeting cancelled by injunction, but it would have created more than 15,000 ambassadors of an anti-Quixtar message. (No, I won’t be there.)
Quixtar is going to produce materials to teach the people skills necessary for IBO’s to build the business.
Right…Maybe their tools people can have Don Imus put out a CD on how to avoid sexual harrassment.
The way they have handled this, does anyone think they have the public relations finesse to sell the AMWAY name change to the American public.
I don’t think so.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:49 am
This Blog is an absolute joke!!
Nothing but lies and defamatory statements posted by Quxitar/Amway.
I’m saddened, appalled, disgusted and disappointed.
Quxitar/Amway you should be ashamed as I’m sure the original founders Rich DeVos & Jay Van Andel are.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:08 am
Just a fast question for the corporate Lawyers at q/a — I doubt they read this, But I was at the team meeting in columbus the other day. It was awsome. Not once did they even mention or care about the q/a lies or bs. They gave a great motivational, uplifting seminar. They taught principals. Now the twist, my question, I went to church sunday and the minister was talking about the same principals, the same life changes that we all need to make etc… you get the point. So is Q/A going to try and close down my church too? Are they going to sue me for attending that too? Why don’t you have your “lawless lawyers” read this and sue me too? I don’t have much money but I would love to call every news station about it so the world will really see how stupid this entire thing is …… if you want them to go then drop it and let em all go.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:09 am
Corp comm. # 27,
Yea that is the way you guys are acting so don’t act surprised when one of us expresses it. Q is doing a great job getting IBOs to throw in the towel.
Q is bringing this upon itself which is why I believe their objective is to get most IBOs to resign/not renew so they can convert to a more Avon/retail type business model without as many ABOs getting in the way.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:10 am
Enough is Enough! Q is saying one thing today and another tomorrow. Just GO!….and then don’t go to Louisville. Team was using these Leardership Development tools prior to August 9th and was sharing the profit with Team members, why is this all of the sudden considered a competing MLM??? It was OK as long as the Team was bringing in new IBO’s and $$ to Q, but now it’s a competitor??? This was something already in place and blessed by Q, so it should not be considered wrong now.
Q also needs to get a grip with their non-compete. Honestly I don’t ever remember seeing it when I signed up but generally people that are successful in this business are “sales” people. So you’re telling me that if they decide to not renew their IBO (Team or not) they can’t get a job? Even if they didn’t get involved with another Network Marketing company, they can’t be an independent contractor (realtor, sales rep, etc)?
What about those of us that were in something else before? My wife has been in Mary Kay for years before we ever got involved with this. No one asked if we were in another MLM or told us to quit Mary Kay. So will she be violating the non-compete if she sells Mary Kay to one of her longtime customers???
Q needs to let this go. They can’t penalize people for things that were previously in place or that they knew were being done. They praised Team for their growth and knew how Team did it, but now want to hold it against them. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!
October 18th, 2007 at 9:12 am
Trust me, glenn—they read it.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:28 am
#33 Amway Realist:
“In the meantime, they couldn’t careless if they hurt the former IBO’s who have left.”
Ummm… why should they care about people who sit around and disparage the company and have made a hobby of ranting?
October 18th, 2007 at 9:34 am
qwerty: Fair enough. But…why do you feel that way?
October 18th, 2007 at 9:36 am
admin - I bet this stuff is wearing on your mind as well. Good luck to you all in the future. I have a deposition today with a bunch of attorneys (no cap on purpose, no respect) they don’t care about the truth, they care about the fees. If they cared about anyone other than themselves they would settle it and move on b 4 this is all a pile of burning rubbish.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:04 am
Yes, Corporation Communications, “communist monarchy.”
And Bridgett, I did read that paragraph, and I am still not clear on your point. Woodward et al. filed ONE lawsuit WITHOUT making it public, in an effort to protect you and me from the onerous language added to the Rules of Conduct AFTER many of us registered. The non-compete was ADDED in 2004. Q apparently never needed one until then. Maybe because they could no long compete legitimately.
And in case you don’t understand the language in that clause, it clearly states I cannot be affiliated in any way with ANY company that markets ANY product similar to those offered by Q. The term “markets through independent distributors” covers just about every single manufacturer in the U.S.–they all utilize “independent distributors” at some point in the distribution chain.
In response to one quietly filed lawsuit, Q has engaged in a slanderous, no-holds-barred, fight to the death war designed to crush Orrin Woodward, and never mind who gets in the way. If you think that is fair, noble, and respectable, then you are in the right place. You all deserve one another.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:31 am
glenn: All in a day’s work.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:38 am
Hey Quixtar,
Don’t forget to tell ‘em what the Judge said about Orrin Woodward.
Oh, I’m sorry. You didn’t forget, did you?
You are so predictable. This article is exactly how I said last night you would spin it. In my opinion, you’re not smart enough to see the writing on the wall.
It would be laughable, if it weren’t so outrageous, that you obviously think you have a license to do what you got a Judge to order Orrin & Chris not to do: disparage your opponent.
Fact of the matter is that I don’t believe you even need the order against them. They have too much class. They wouldn’t bother to lower themselves to your level.
They will beat you in the end. What you’re doing here in your “news” blog, and elsewhere, is you’re just making it easier for them.
And I, and all the great men and women of TEAM, want to thank you for that!!!
October 18th, 2007 at 10:41 am
Memo to TEAM:
Stop it, stop it, just stop it.
Stop blaming Quixtar for all of this. Stop blaming Amway all of this and stop blaming Alticor attorneys for this.
Start putting blame where blame is….Your TEAM leadership who decided to file a baseless “illegal pyramid” lawsuit and start a smear campaign over the internet.
Your “boy” Orrin got shown the door (and you all know why) then TEAM hate sites started popping up all over and vindictiveness was spewing out of your mouths through blogs and posts.
Do you honestly believe that Quixtar was not going to take a stand?
If your leadership (and I use that word loosely) would have left quietly and peacefully within the rules this probably would have never happened. But oh no. Greed and massive egos were too much for Orrin and Co. to overcome.
There are really two choice you have at this point:
1. Go quietly away and get ready for your new “MLM” by waiting patiently for your 6 months to expire.
2. Start thinking for yourself (and this means no regurgitation of system tools) Take a couple of steps back. Punt and regroup. Then wipe the sweat off of your brow and say to yourself…….. wow, that was a close one.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:46 am
Richard the Lion-Hearted #27
“Dude, go back to school and learn the difference between tort law and constitutional law.
You have no constitutional rights to a business. Never seen that, unless you extend the “life, liberty and pursuit of happiness” notion.”
– Maybe you missed the part about a right to assemble; or did you think that a church is not a business in this country? Your “go back to school” comment would be like me saying, “Dude, you need to move out of your mom’s house and get a life” How would I know that you are still living at mommies house?
“This is a property rights issue in one sense. That is, the LOS info is proprietary property.”
– If truth prevails, the fact that my relationship with my family and close friends pre-dates them becoming IBOs, and the LOS will be determined to NOT be Alticor’s “Proprietary property”. The only LOS portions that could be considered proprietary would be corporate referrals or passed-up IBOs from a family member or friend who resigned, but even those pass-up IBOs are from pre-existing relationships.
“Oh, BTW, federal judges aren’t ELECTED, they are appointed for life.”
– Maybe you missed the fact that Judge Sullivan is not a federal judge.
“Communistic mona[r]chy has to be the dumbest oxymoron I have heard lately…”
– Yeah, well… asking a judge to stop our “right of assembly” is much more foolish!
“Explain how a profit-sharing business and a MLM differ… Not sure what hairs you are splitting. If MLMs aren’t profit-sharing businesses, then I don’t know what they are called… JOBS?”
– It is my understanding that an MLM is one where the “bonuses” or “rebates” extend to all who “register”; where a “profit sharing” business does not extend to all who register, only those who have enough volume to qualify. Example: A new IBO could get a small check if he simply followed the rules, until the new rules go into effect, requiring that the new IBO be part of an “accredited” LOA… by the way, are there ANY currently accredited LOAs, or is Quixtar going to keep ALL of the bonuses from now on?
October 18th, 2007 at 11:17 am
Folks -
What we have here is a Corp that is used to writing extremely vague rules of conduct - stretching or downright ignoring their own “rules” whenever and however they please, wantonly and willfully decimating the efforts of hard-working IBOs throughout the world as they unilaterally deem fitting.
Clearly, the proof of this arrogant attitude and the havok it has wreaked can be seen through the legal documents that have seen the light of day in spite of their best efforts to supress them.
I am not interested in debating the justification for this gross subversion of their own agreements. I only suggest that each of us attempts to put our emotions and rhetoric aside, and to simply look at the long record of abusive conduct on behalf of this Corp.
When (I do not mean if) the world’s legal system gets hold of the breadth of this heinious abuse, I will not be surprised to hear of the massive punitive damages awarded to defendants who had the naive belief that Corp would actually hold their conduct to the same standards they are willing to go to the mat to enforce against their Independent Contractors.
It will make the assertions made by outside critics pale in comparison.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:19 am
hey I have a really good plan to show you ——- lol ——– let me know when I can meet ya.
ok Just a little humor to lighten the mood around this blog.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:20 am
Lisbette #54:
You call getting a PR company to set up a blog site on the Internet “WITHOUT making it public”.
I would love to get you to make something public for me, if I ever have the need.
BTW the “onerous” language was added while Woodward was on the IBOAI. And it was done in response to the Team in Focus group, which was terminated because they got out of line with their tool business. Those rules were put into place to protect my downline from people who do not want to act with integrity. Woodward has already once before taken his downline away - when he took their tool business away from his upline.
In your last paragraph, you remind me of the pot calling the kettle black. Let me remind you of the facts, most of which I learned from the FreeTheIBO website’s collection of lawsuits and accompanying affidavits:
Orrin has been violating the rules for years. Eventually he decided to stop attempting to work inside the rules. He demanded that he be allowed to take his downline with him. Why would he want to take his downline with him?
Obviously Q refused to allow him to take an asset they had spent years and years building. They also need to protect the IBO’s, who they have a contractual relationship and obligation with. He and Chris Brady was then terminated on the spot. Woodward and Brady then immediately pulled out a lawsuit, alleging Quixtar was an illegal pyramid. (Which allegation is completely baseless. Charging high prices has never in any court, in any discussion surfaced as a test for the legitimacy of an MLM, anywhere, anytime.)
At the same time, a blog FreeTheIBO was started by a public relations company, where no positive postings about Q was tolerated.
Q responded by filing a suit in Michigan to protect THEIR LOS, by informing the IBO’s in TEAM of the latest developments, and by requesting the IBO’s in leadership to affirm whether they wanted to stay with Q.
I don’t think they are setting out to crush Orrin, because he is imploding. He has already lost his Quixtar/Amway business, and he has resigned from TEAM. Whether the last bit i a smokescreen and he will rejoin, time only will tell.
And lastly, have you ever seen ONE instance where Q/A has applied the restrained of trade in the manner you accuse them of being able to? Just because you interpret something in one way, means that that is the correct way. And that comment applies to restraint of trade clauses, pyramid schemes and business in general.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:24 am
#15 Bridgett
YOU are so wrong..TO MLM structure.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:33 am
nice try Q but the judge ruled in our favor we still will meet in Ky.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:37 am
I am no longer a Quixtar IBO. I left for 2 reasons.
#1. It has been obvious for a many years that quixtar prices are to high. This has made it very difficult to be succesfull. I got to the 2500 pv level at one point. However because of high prices almost everyone I had registered quit.
#2. Before Quixtar I tried to build an Amway bussiness. There was so much negative about the amway name, I had a very hard time convincing people to get involoved. I was happy when I could tell people this was not Amway. I have no desire to be an Amway distributor again.
I have attended several Team meetings since August 9th. Not once have I heard promoted a new bussiness. Not once have I heard any bussiness oppotunity promoted. They have taught me how to be a better father, husband, employee. Not once have I heard any disparaging remoarks about any company or individual.
If at some point the team leadership does come up with a new oppotunity, I’ll have to look at the bussiness plan to see if it is something I can promote. Then if it is a may get involved I may not.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:44 am
I am a current IBO.
I am a current TEAM Member.
I have been thinking about this whole thing for a long time, and wanted to post for your comments.
I am not going to dispute all that is going on and who is right or wrong.
However, with TEAM moving forward, here is my delima on TEAM integrity.
From my vantage point, not a platinum level yet, TEAM has put themselves into a no win situation if they start another business in March.
The reason I say that is, from a Quixtar contract point of view, they cannot solicit or “tell me” that they have started another competing business until 2 years have passed.
On the other hand, and I am not debating this with anyone just my personal belief, I didn’t join for what quixtar offered other than for the money. I joined for what “I thought” TEAM stood for.
So saying that, I would be very upset if TEAM leadership didn’t tell me about the new business since I have a line of sponsorship I am already in. (Yes I know that it is owned by Q, but that is besides the point)
The way I see it TEAM will either violate Q contract rules by telling me about the new buisness, or will violate moral ethics by not telling me and letting others that are in my LOS below me in above me if I don’t quit Q in time. (Not saying I am quitting Q either although the option is on the table for me)
Either way, TEAM will lose all integrity if they start a new business.
What are your thoughts?
and BTW for some of the other posts, if TEAM does profit sharing based on how many people I bring in for ticket sales or buying materials, then they are using the LOS to do that and track it. Since the LOS is “owned” by Q, then team is at fault for raiding the LOS.
SO profit sharing, MLM, etc. it is really irrelivant. What is relevant is who is buying and how that money is distribuited.
And finally, for those that are better spellers than I am feel free to use A…Z for anything I missed.
Hope you all have a good one.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:45 am
Another NAIL in the Amway coffin!!!
October 18th, 2007 at 11:48 am
Amazed:
If TEAM is not a MLM, why are team members worried about retaining their position in the line of sponsorship?
As you said in #24 - let the lawyers handle the definitions, including the constitutional definitions.
Communist Monarcy? Domestic terrorism? - Way to go! If it wasn’t so sad, it would have been funny.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:51 am
Right, you think common sense is on your side. Is that why you are suing john doe bloggers for saying bad things about Quixtar such as “meijers and wal-mart are cheaper than Quixar”. Or maybe “if you do really well in Quixtar as an INDEPENDENT business OWNER then they will fire you from being independent and ownership”. Those are very disparaging. Or is it that we are considered property and this property is walking away? Also disparaging (but said by your lawyers). Or is it that we are raiding the LOS that we developed and we kept some of the phone numbers and addresses. That is stealing I am sure. And disparaging. I will be sure to give you my moms address and phone number back and will have no more communications with her for two years to honor the contract. That sounds like common sense. NOT!!! Oh, now that was disparaging! Common sense is on your side like a pig in a bath (not at all for those of you with no sarcasm skills). After these disparaging remarks feel free to sue me! You have my e-mail address and I check it quite often. And yes, in the court of law I will say that wal-mart is cheaper. Sorry if that hurt your feelings.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
So where’s my post?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
So sone comments are awaiting moderation and others disappear?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Mod, pick any one of my posts you have in limbo and, after review, add it to the discussion, pleeze.
Why do some evaporate? What’s the trigger?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
#19 Steve
Leave. And follow the rules as you leave.
____________________________________
#24 amazed
MLM
Network Marketing
Profit sharing
It’s all the same.
____________________________________
#25 promiseland
Leave. And follow the rules as you leave.
____________________________________
#28 The Closer
The Corp cares greatly about the IBOs WHO FOLLOW THE RULES.
The rules aren’t there to make your life miserable. They are there to protect you.
Seriously, (not you, The Closer, necessarily) the rebellious spirit of some of you…it’s like dealing with one of my children.
We have rules in our house not to take all the fun out of life. There is FREEDOM in obedience.
____________________________________
#29 dannie
I appreciate and respect you for following the rules.
____________________________________
#31 amazed
Being a disable American veteran, then YOU certainly understand RULES and the importance of following them.
Yes?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
#32 Utah
“Hardship” to thousands of people? Hardly a hardship.
One could make an argument that TEAM has caused more damage (and even hardship) to hundreds of thousands of IBOs.
____________________________________
#33 Amway Realist
See amazed’s #24 comment.
MLM,
network marketing structure,
profit sharing
Whatever name you want to use, it’s all the same.
As far as your Tex comment. What’s your point? Nice diversion. Y’all are good at that, aren’t you?
____________________________________
#34 AEM
The California court has ruled that Quixtar IS a legal business. So all contracts ARE binding. Period.
____________________________________
#35 jerandi
Leave. And follow the rules as you leave.
____________________________________
#36 Brad
Quixtar has been MORE than patient with TEAM’s leadership. For six YEARS Quixtar has been trying to get them to FOLLOW THE RULES.
How long is Quixtar supposed to put up with this crap and have their reputation be dragged through the mud as these “men of character” go about THEIR business without ANY regard for all other IBOs?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
#54 LisBette
“filed one lawsuit without making it public”
“quietly filed lawsuit”
Ha. Ha. Ha.
Lawsuits are very public and there is nothing quiet about them.
Please.
Orrin didn’t get his way,
He threatened with a lawsuit,
Quixtar called his bluff,
the lawsuit was filed,
and here we are today.
Orrin et all brought this on themselves.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
I agree with OnwardBound.
Massive double mindedness on the corporation’s part.
Worse yet, their bungling of the PR side of this is inexcusable at best.
Numbers don’t lie. This business hasn’t grown in a long time, and I bet that stems from ambiguity on a lot different subjects. Read Built to Last, by Jim Collins, the chapter on “Preserve the Core and Stimulate Growth”. I would say this company is too far into the former to really expedite the latter.
It’s a shame, because they have a great platform, but are too inept to respond to changes in consumer demand quickly, and then crucify the ones driving the growth.
I’m not a TEAM IBO, but you’d have to be blinder than Stevie Wonder to not see that this thing is stagnant.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
Where’s Tex? Check out some of the previous blog entries. Tex posted about 1 on 5 of every single comment to each blog entry. He was so blind in what he was saying that people were beginning to wonder if we was an Alticor employee. It looks like Alticor realized they couldn’t pull the wool over our eyes with Tex and fired him!!
October 18th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
Piet
#61
“Obviously Q refused to allow him to take an asset they had spent years and years building.”
“THEY (?) had spent years building ?
What kind of dope are you smokin’ anyway ?
October 18th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Hi Admin,
I had short comments for:
#40 Jack
#44 onemill
#45 Rico (the other one)
#46 qwerty
#48 Steve
#49 Onward Bound
in a comment I posted before my #74 comment.
Was it overlooked or did you not receive it? Shall I attempt to reconstruct it?
October 18th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
#76 Laginito
Tex will reappear. I’m sure he has a life outside of blogging.
When he comments, you criticize him.
When he doesn’t comment you criticize him.
I guess circumstances doesn’t effect a critical spirit, huh?
October 18th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
#78 Bridgett: We didn’t see it — and it’s not in queue at the moment. By all means, resend.
October 18th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Trying to figure out why people are leaving in droves? Alright, I’ll tell ya straight up.
Two emails sent out to everyone affiliated with TEAM. People searching for info on what was going on. A post on this blog called Just Go, TEAM. People calling the corp asking how to resign.
Simple process, but very effective….
October 18th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Bridgette,
“Quixtar has been MORE than patient with TEAM’s leadership. For six YEARS Quixtar has been trying to get them to FOLLOW THE RULES.”
Please inform us of how you KNOW that Orrin broke the rules for several years . Aside from what we all know happened 2 months ago, please tell us what DOCUMENTATION you have, except the word of Q/A ?
How did he go from being the “golden boy” asked to speak at Q events and touted as the one to emulate regarding the Team growth ?
Please note the quotes below from a blog from a NON Team upper level IBO.
“For many years our organization has had to build a business under the shadow of the much-touted success of the Woodward organization known as Team and their pre-cursor moniker of Team of Destiny, or T.O.D……..
When we heard about the terminations of the Woodwards and Bradys our organization had mixed feelings that it went down the way it did, but was glad that finally the corporation was going to do something about this organization of troublemakers and how they were bad for our business. …..
How dare he decide to start his own company and do something this extreme to make it that much harder on the rest of us who are not related to Team. How dare he. I was very angry, but at the same time a bit torn as I read the affidavit filed in California over and over and over and some things just started to make sense from Team’s standpoint. Although at first I was completely and stoically on Quixtar’s side, Team has a valid argument that affects my organization as well and I am tired of the way that Quixtar and their lawyers have represented and are making us look bad.”
Please address some of this…for the full account, you may go to:
http://makingthedecision.blogspot.com/
This particular excerpt comes from the very first entry. Read them in order and come back to us with some additional insights, please.
October 18th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
#73 Bridgett response to
#34 AEM
The California court has ruled that Quixtar IS a legal business. So all contracts ARE binding. Period.
Having the lawsuit dismissed and sent to arbitration is not ruling that Q* is legal, it is saying that what needs to be done is what is stated in the contract… abritration.
#74 Bridgett
Lawsuits are only “very public” if one of the parties involved choose to make it so. Wonder which party that was is this case??? Not Team!
October 18th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Bridgett? Tex? one in the same?
October 18th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
I would gue$$ that the attorney’$ are happy with all of thi$. They win no matter what. Both $ides can go under and they $till get $omething out of it.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
#40 jack
Quixtar did not “attack freedom of speech”. They are doing the same thing, legally, that they did with Schwartz and his anti-Amway website when it was discovered that the guy was on Proctor & Gamble’s payroll.
Quixtar is not “attacking our right to assemble”. They are protecting the contracts of the IBOs.
________________________________________________
#44 onemill
I’m sorry that the Quixtar Business was misrepresented when you signed up as an IBO five years ago.
This IS the same business, not some bastardization of it that you were shown.
Sorry for the confusion.
________________________________________________
#45 Rico (the other one)
So…to avoid bad PR, Quixtar should have just let TEAM “do their thing” huh?
So your advice is that when Orrin, on August 9th, presented Quixtar with an “amicable separation agreement”, which went against the RULES, that Quixtar should have jumped for joy and agreed to it.
Because, if they did that,
then Orrin wouldn’t have pulled out a prepared, bogus, illegal-pyramid lawsuit as a threat.
And then Quixtar wouldn’t have called his bluff.
And then Orrin wouldn’t have had to be a “man of his word” and FILE the lawsuit.
And then Quixtar wouldn’t have had to go to guns, after being VERY patient and bending over backwards for SIX YEARS trying to get the guy to follow RULES.
Hmmm. Kind of glad you’re not the one making decisions for the Corp.
________________________________________________
#46 qwerty
What lies and defamatory statements. Support you allegations.
________________________________________________
#48 Steve
Throw in the towel! Please! Throw it now! I’ll take quality over quantity any day.
________________________________________________
#49 OnwardBound
No, it wasn’t okay. For six years Quixtar’s been trying to work with the TEAM leadership (quietly and discreetly, so that’s maybe why this all seems such a shocker to you) to fix the problems.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
#81 timeandmoney
Um no, not trying to figure it out.
Really happy it’s happening though.
Shining the light of truth in a dark room–simple process, but very effective.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
#83 janedoe said, “Having the lawsuit dismissed and sent to arbitration is not ruling that Q* is legal, it is saying that what needs to be done is what is stated in the contract… abritration.”
NOT TRUE. A lawsuit claiming that a company is illegal, gets thrown out of court WITH prejudice, is saying that the company IS legal.
If the company were deemed illegal, then the court (a judge of legality) wouldn’t send it to arbitration of an illegal business because the contract of an illegal business wouldn’t be valid.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
#83 janedoe said, “Lawsuits are only “very public” if one of the parties involved choose to make it so. Wonder which party that was is this case??? Not Team!”
Not TEAM?
THEY HAD A PR FIRM SEND OUT A PRESS RELEASE TO THE MEDIA.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
Bridgett #72,
You said “The rules aren’t there to make your life miserable. They are there to protect you.”
Some rules are worth having BUT they can be taken way to far which restricts freedom to a point that we all lose. If you don’t get where I’m coming from then I bet you believe that big government and the Dems are for the poor people too. You probably think the rich should be taxed more so you can have more.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
As usual a sad OFFICIAL comment from “the company”.
Your attitude is you own my family and friends loyalty because of the LOS ? You will never own loyal, you earn it and Q has done nothing but discourage loyalty. Team has done everything and IBOs who can afford it have tried to be loyal to overpriced products with the hope of some future rebate bonus. Q, you actions themselves are causing resignations and though I have no facts to back this up, your actions definately has reflected you monthly volume since the Amway announcement in June. You may force IBOs to their 6 months but in doing so in this fashion, you have convinced a great many others not to spend another nickel in Q. I didn’t have to tell my download that, they came to their own conclusions themselves. Every pubilc comment, every legal actions simply changes more minds. Your own actions are killing your company. IBOs are just wanting to leave, let us, let them leave. Save some face, don’t you think the mainstream media will finally get a hold of this, especially with the Blackwater connection. They’ll be all over it, if you don’t control your lawyers.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
Hey, A/Q/A, this is getting a little over the top. I think by now you should just let them go. Let them start their little Internet Wally World with cheap prices and junk products so Orrin and Chris (and Randy, Don, and Tim) can keep getting filthy rich with their tool scam. Either the junk products will shut them down in two years or the FTC will.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
# 73 Bridgett
If Woodward was such a problem for so many years, why was the keynote speaker at the annual convention the corporation did in 2003?
Also, the judge made no such ruling. The ruling that he made was, “Both parties have a contract that if either party has a dispute that it would go to arbitration. So take it to arbitration.”
#79 Bridgett
When you post nearly 1 out of 5 comments on every single blog by Alticor like Tex has, I would say that he does not have a life outside of blogging.
#81 timeandmoney
The reason that I resigned was because I don’t want to try telling people “Do you want to get in Amway?” When I first contact them.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
#82 dannie
Does anyone have a link to the 5 or 6-page document outlining all the TEAM sanctions dating back to 2001 and all the actions Quixtar took in an attempt to remedy the situation?
There’s a link that someone posted even here, somewhere on the Alticor Media Blog, weeks ago. Would rather not spend the time searching if someone can find it quickly.
_______________________________________________
dannie, The August 9th meeting was ANOTHER meeting Quixtar wanted to have with Orrin and gang to discuss rule violations and how to fix them.
And Orrin said flat out that he wasn’t interested in following the rules. That we wanted to leave. But rather than leave quietly, and follow the rules, he didn’t. Shocker.
Instead he pulled out the “Amicable Separation Agreement”. An agreement which goes against the rules for leaving.
–Quixtar didn’t agree to the terms of the ASA.
–Orrin tried threatening Quixtar with an illegal-pyramid lawsuit.
–They called his bluff.
–He filed the suit.
–He hired a PR firm to orchestrate the smear campaign.
–And here we all are, part of one big exciting party.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Bridgette,
I ran across this post by you.
I’m starting to understand now… from this post, you agree with the injustices of what’s happening to your beloved Q/A, but since your leadership wasn’t attacked, you are stuck in a non-compete without any other options. That’s why you still defend Q/A and bash TEAM. But in this case, it’s plain and simple. The judge ruled, and we can have our TEAM profit sharing leadership development business and we can meet in Louisville. He read the Q/A rules, and said they aren’t being broken… so you can copy, paste, reiterate, rephrase, repeat whatever rules you think are being broken all you want, your post states how you really feel about it all, and you are trapped too.
October 18th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Bridgette -
“MLM
Network Marketing
Profit sharing
It’s all the same.” ???
You’re going to have to do the explaining to the UAW that they’re involved in an MLM / Network Marketing plan. I don’t think they quite know that’s the same as profit sharing.
Some times it’s just better to remain silent and appear ignorant than post and remove all doubt …
October 18th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Bridgette -
IF such a document exists - *and if it’s legit*, wouldn’t you think it would be the cornerstone of any case against Mr. Woodward?
On the other hand, if Corp can hastily throw something together to justify their actions and flash it to their shills and have them harp on it incessantly - it would sure misdirect the conversation at hand …
If you think you have something legit in writing suggest you either put up or …. you get the idea.
October 18th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Bridgett #89
THEY HAD A PR FIRM SEND OUT A PRESS RELEASE TO THE MEDIA
Can you direct me to where this release is? The FIRST time I saw anything about this whole mess was in an email for Q*. What media did Team or a PR Firm for them release this information to?
October 18th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
When all of this jumped off, your first reactive post was titled “Just Go Team”. Now that they have, why don’t you give it a rest?
The businesses that were damaged were damaged by you with your refusal to negotiate, your neutering of the IBOIA, and your failure to involve the field in your re-marketing plans.
Further, you maintain that TEAM only represented a small portion of business. So why all the fuss. They are gone. MOVE ON. They have.
October 18th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
#96 Greg,
You can CALL it profit sharing. The structure is not TRUE profit sharing.
October 18th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Just Wondering,
Have you tried calling your upline platinum or above? (Don’t know if they can talk to you legally or not) I know this is a very trying time, because you are right, Quixtar is definetly enforcing the no solicitation rule, and a lot of us feel left in the dark. If your upline Platinum has left quixtar they are not allowed to contact you, but does anything in the rules stop you from contacting them? You said that you joined because of what you thought TEAM stood for, I would say that the TEAM is most definetly taking a stand, have you
read the California lawsuit, TEAM obviously believes that there are problems in the Quixtar business that will not be corrected so they are taking a stand. Once you have read the lawsuit decide which side you are on and then act accordingly. As a matter of fact this is a very simple matter when you think about it. The California Lawsuit very clearly states TEAM’s side and Quixtar obviously believes the opposite, so who do you agree with? If you agree with TEAM then your morals and ethics dictate you resign from Quixtar, if you agree with Quixtar then your morals and ethics say that you resign from any affiliation with TEAM. The future opportunity with either company doesn’t really matter if it is a question of morals and ethics. What do you believe?
October 18th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Shannon #95
How about a few quotes from Bridgett??? Like this one
“For those die-hard Amway people, they can shout from the rooftops about the history of Quixtar and it’s association with Amway right now. You don’t have to change the name and screw the rest of us over. You can talk about Amway, right now, until you are blue in the face, but don’t force ME to talk about Amway.”
Bridgett… What changed from your thinking from your post on June 18, 2007 till now?
“Why not look at your databases, see what IBOs are sponsoring the most AND MOVING VOLUME, and ask THOSE IBOs what they think about your brilliant idea?” Should have asked the LOA TEAM! Oh, wait,Team tried to give their opinion…look what happened.
Bridgett, this quote is just the topping on the cake:
” Everything rises and falls on leadership Mr. Payne. Perhaps the explanation (and solution) as to why Quixtar’s numbers aren’t where they could be isn’t a matter of “brand name stickability” but a matter of who is leading this ship and who you have chosen to be on your team.”
I would suggest to everyone to go check out the posting by Bridgett, from Monday, June 18, 2007 @ http://insidequixtar.opportunityzone.com/2007/06/14/Its-about-a-transformation.aspx#3895
October 18th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
How does anyone on TEAM really see this as a defeat for Quixtar? Yes, TEAM can go ahead with its meetings, but no, they cannot do or say anything that is harmful in any way to Quixtar at that meeting. So, in the end, Quixtar gets what it really wanted anyway. I know - most TEAM members will say that it would not have happened even without the court filing. Maybe..maybe not - I have no frame of reference to judge that and, at the end of the day, it really does not matter now. It would not surprise me, however, if Quixtar is there monitoring the event.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
Bridgett
How much has your business grown lately? Have you actually been able to get anyone into the new Amway? I bet not… And I would love to know where this PR media release by TEAM is. Please provide or stop the untruths. Maybe TEAM should sue you like A/Q/A has the bloogers who have posted against them. What a bunch of immature madness!
October 18th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
people hurts???
come on,you are the only one fighting,the people in quixtar they dont have time to fight the are STP!! RIGHT?
and the people of TEAM we are so happy to the future we got,don’t you??
quixtar was the biggest company but now look like a little brother crying!!!
TEAM,un equipo,un sueño,una vision!!!
GOD BLESS!!
October 18th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
tex is Bridgett ……. tex you are listen cd or reading books right??
yeah!! now you feel a LOSSER…….AND YOU’RE RIGHT.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
#98 janedoe
Ashton Partners is the name of the PR firm.They “managed” the freetheibo.com website.
Google
“Ashton Partners” “Orrin Woodward”
to get the press release and more.
When you put things in quotes (”) Google captures the entire phrase–this way, you won’t find Ashton without Partners, or Orrin without Woodward.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
#97 Greg
My recollection is that IS an Exhibit the case.
The “case” being the one Orrin filed against Quixtar claiming that it is an illegal-pyramid business, which was thrown out WITH PREDIJUCE.
That case?
October 18th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
#95 Shannon
“Injustices”? I would hardly call them injustices. Do I think Quixtar is perfect? No.
IMO, they should’ve kicked TEAM out a long time ago. They are much more patient that I.
Do have my “issues” with Quxitar. Yes. Do I sue them and malign them claiming there are an illegal pyramid? Um, that would be a big fat NO.
Do I think that the meal replacement bars are more than I’d pay for them? Absolutely. Am I glad that there are 1,000+ other products Quixtar offers? YES!!
(For the record I have a customer who pays full retail price for the meal replacement bars—on DITTO. Zounds!)
What I’ve learned over the last several months is that MY shopping habits do not dictate the entire universe’s shopping habits.
And since that post, I’ve seen changes that Quixtar has made to remedy the pricing issue.
If you’re going to pull one of my comments, why not pull ALL of them?
Why not pull all the ones about how I now understand why we must retail?
Why not pull all the ones about the success I’ve had with retailing?
(cont.)
October 18th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
(cont.)
#95 Shannon
Love the new Artistry Essentials Makeup Kits. Retails for $59 (US). The same products from Whole Foods, with their Mineral Infusion line would cost me $122 plus the cost of two brushes, which are included in the Artistry Kits.
Have you tried the new Simply Nutrilte Twist Tubes? Ingenious! And at 55 cents each—very retailable to the Vitamin Water crowd and beyond.
What about the new cute little Simply Nutrilite vitamin packs at 83 cents a day—1/3 the price of Double X?
How about the new Aritstry Essentials Skin Care line? Better quality than the current Basic Systems AND less expensive.
And all these products were unveiled at the IBOAI meeting before Orin’s meeting with the Corp.
Seems like Quixtar was giving Orrin what he “supposedly” wanted.
Hmmm.
(cont.)
October 18th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
(cont.)
#95 Shannon
I have no other options? Darling, we live in a land of PLENTY of opportunity. In and outside this business. So why Quixtar? Because the Comp Plan ROCKS. Sorry you fail to see how fabulous it is and decided to accept a bastardization of the Comp Plan like your fellow TEAM members.
Why don’t you all get a copy of the REAL comp plan and have it explained to you properly? =)
(cont.)
October 18th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
(cont.)
#95 Shannon
And since that posting–which I still stand by–I now see WHY Quixtar has to do what they’ve done with the name change.
To weed out all those who have been LYING to people about being in the Quixtar business, let alone the connection to Amway.
It was this whole TEAM thing that opened my eyes to what other “Quxitar” IBOs were doing (two months AFTER that post you refer to, I might add). I was totally oblivious and really amazed.
I got the “stacking” email from Quixtar back in July, and disregarded it ‘cause it didn’t apply to me.
I thought, “Who would stack? That’s the least profitable way to build a Quixtar business.”
Then, this whole thing happened on August 9th and I now understood the Big Picture.
Aahh, TEAM was using the Quixtar business to lure people in to their VERY profitable tool business.
That’s a bait and switch if I ever saw one.
(cont.)
October 18th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
(cont.)
#95 Shannon
And that explains why Orrin didn’t care about the new products that Quixtar presented to Board. His money was in his “Leadership Development Service Provider”.
And that explains why Quixtar didn’t give the CORRUPT IBOAI Board, on which he and is cohorts “served”, any say about the name change.
Yes, if my LOA had been doing what TEAM’s been doing, they too should have been “attacked”.
But they weren’t “attacked” were they?
This business attracts many kinds, and each LOA attracts exactly the character of their leaders. Don’t they Shannon?
October 18th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Tex, I admire your stamina.
Everyone,
I shall be off this Blog for a bit. I have MANY other activities to which to tend.
If you want to know more of my thoughts, here’s an easy way to do it:
On any particular thread, hit the Control and the F keys on your keyboard at the same time.
This should bring up a FIND box. Type in my name. Make sure you spell it correctly, since it’s easy to misspell.
You will see, even in posts as recent as a week ago, that I question Quixtar. I am not a respector of people.
So if you want to pull things out of context, go to Alticor Media Blog, Opportunity Zone, and most recently, Amway Media Blog.
Those are the three places I comment.
Again, you all are brilliant at diversion.
What a grand use of your time. Thanks for your interest in me. I feel like British Royalty, a Hollywood Movie Star.
Yawn.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Don’t know who Greg is - guess that’s what happens when you half read posts you didn’t author.
Let’s SEE the information YOU quote, Bridgett. Only one problem …
Your paralegals are not here, so you’ll have to do the discovery yourownself. Don’t be lazy now.
It’s often been said “those who know the least know it the loudest” … so keep right on a-postin’, hear?
October 18th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Bridgett #108 -
Selective memory rears it’s ugly head once again.
Orrin was asking for the name change back to A-bomb?
Seems that afterthought was mentioned at an IBOAI meeting as well. As pre-revisionist memory serves, it wasn’t well received there by anyone not collecting a W-2 - and since they only know how to say yessir, that really doesn’t count now, does it.
Any other old news you want to rehash?
October 18th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
hey bridgette,
Your sucess in retailing “one customer” not much of a story there now is it.
October 18th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
Bridgette,
Back peddling now doesn’t negate the fact you said…
“Yes, there are some challenges with the growth of Quixtar. But it’s not the name. It’s trying to sell a meal replacement bar for $2.51 when they (IBOs and Customers) can get a dozen of other brands for 99 cents. Come on Corporation! Wake up! There are two negatives that I confront when sharing the business plan with people 1) The money is made by selling CDs, books, and functions; 2) You have to buy ALL your personal use in order to make this business work and find others to do the same (with the hope that you’ll find enough people that one day when you hit a higher bonus bracket, your bonus back on your personal use will cover the inflated IBO and RETAIL prices you’ve been paying) because no one in their right mind would buy anything from you at these retail (and many even at IBO cost) prices.”
Most everything in your post is what the lawsuit was all about. Your claims right here prove Q is a pyramid scheme. So, you just happen to be one of the 3.4% who can retail and even sucker people to purchase over priced items. How can you sell an item at retail to someone when you’d never purchase it and then brag about it? The fact is, you have to do more that retail to get the bonuses. You have to sponsor! Sponsor people who are willing to do what you do. Good luck!
Orrin wasn’t asking for 3 ok priced items to retail. It was bigger than that.
Well, with all of this… if 16,000 people have quit, and they all did 100 PV each, that’s 67.2 million in annual revenue the corporation has lost. Oops
October 18th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
Bridgett #105
Setting up a forum for Team IBO’s access in order to try to get some “facts” regarding the situation is not what I would consider a “press release” especially since the only way Team IBO’s heard about it was through word of mouth. Team has not issued any press releases or gone to the television stations to have these cases put out there for the public. Q* has done that!
Bridgett #108
“What about the new cute little Simply Nutrilite vitamin packs at 83 cents a day—1/3 the price of Double X?” You need to compare apples to apples here. The new Simply Nutrilite packets are not comparable to Double X, and the difference in IBO cost for buying the “cute little” packets compared to one pill a day per serving for each of the supplement included in the packet… is a whopping $0.81 per month! Great deal!
Artistry… What are you comparing it to? The basic system has always been compared to Estee Lauder and Lancome. The new Artistry Essentials is compared to Clinque. Again, you need to compare apples to apples!
You also need to remember that it isn’t necessarily ALL OF “the core” products that Amway produces that is the problem,, it is all of the other products that have become such a huge issue. If Q*/Amway/Alticor only wants us to only retail their core line products, then they never should have offered anything else!
October 18th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
I fully agree with LisBette, AEM, and dannie:I don’t get it. Why does Q want to stop us from meeting in Louisville? Do they really want to hurt ANYONE who is attending. Don’t try to attack TEAM, I thought your problem was with Orrin, Chris, and the others who you “terminated”. Why didn’t you just try to get the courts to deny THEM from going. The answer is you are not out for them, you are out to get all of us. I hope more and more IBO’s get wind of what you are doing, nobody is safe in your business. Quixtar you disgust me, I have never seen such lowlife tactics. Just keep digging that hole, pretty soon it will be so deep that light will no longer penetrate.
October 18th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
I have heard, and continue to hear, team people bringing back up the non-compete clause. Two things:
1) That has been in the Quixtar rules for a long time.
2) Which QUIXTAR EMPLOYEE SIGNED YOU UP?????
That’s the whole problem with most of the arguments I hear from the team. All of the information you receive as an IBO, unless you are personally calling Quixtar yourself or reading all the rules yourself, ARE PASSED DOWN FROM TEAM LEADERS, NOT QUIXTAR (or if you are in another organization, their leaders).
I could break out numerous tapes from people like Orrin, Chris, Chuck, Randy, Bill and many other Diamonds that ALL SAY how great Quixtar is. Who talk about how the pricing isn’t bad. How they are a great corporation who takes care of everyone. I personally heard Diamonds say that exact same thing less than three months ago.
Did the pricing and everything else change in the last three months and I missed it? Or did Orrin change his mind in the last three months and nobody questions it? It wasn’t a pyramid for all those years Orrin got rich, but now it’s a pyramid?
When I see Orrin start walking on water and healing the sick I will follow with blind faith. Until that time I’m going to ask questions and, when none of my upline leaders will answer them as usual, ask again, and again, and again, until the leaders stop playing dodgeball with my questions and give me some honest answers.
October 18th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
bridgett seems to be suffering from the same dillusion as tex, that they understand Team.
And the case in CA. . . the judge never addresed the prymid issue at all. He didn’t say Q was or that it was not. Cases can get dismissed for a varity of reasons. See post 93 for why this one was dismissed.
October 18th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
#81 duckpond:
Bridgett and Tex one and the same? Nah…….Bridgett’s spelling and sentence structure are WAY better.
#102 janedoe:
I have read Bridgett’s post of Monday, June 18, 2007. My feelings exactly, at that point in time. At THIS point in time, I don’t blame Quixtar one whit for the actions they are
taking.
Go, Bridgett! Oops, I didn’t mean “Just go”, I just meant keep being the voice of reason.
October 18th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
Just curious,
The news article states that the weekend event for Team is expected to bring in about $3 million. Do the numbers & you will very easily see that WWDB does the same with its FED, Dream Night, Family Reunion, Spring Leadership. Not to mention the SOTs, videos, Kate, blah, blah, blah. And yes, all of this money is made off of the IBOs who are just trying to better their lives. The same is true for Yager, Britt, etc. They are complete frauds. It is sad that A/Q know this to be true & they have totally ignored it. How do the other IBOAI board members (2 are from WWDB) know the sad statistics & yet get on stage & talk about the greatest opportunity in the world. My best friend has for the last several years declared, Q is not Amway; it is a totally different business. Now guess what. My best friend gets to explain the name change back to Amway. Also, these so called kingpins have been talking about how absolutely fabulous Q is when after 7 years, Q themselves admit “the name never caught on”. Alticor & kingpins, you have truly taken my best friend from me with your deceit and fraud. You are hurting many, many people. The WWDB franchise business page says, “you can expect to make $50,000 your first year (of course as Ron Puryear explains on Nuts & Bolts - IF you do these Core steps). Look at the numbers that have been admitted in the IBOAI lawsuit. The odds of doing this are virtually Zero. There is absolutely no shame at A/Q & even less than zero with the so called leaders of WWDB, Britt, Team and the rest.
October 18th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
#61 Piet–stay with Amway!! Best of luck to you. You will need it. Because when TEAM is gone, you will be next.
BTW, does Amway have a PR company? Oh, that’s different. They are allowed to hire PR and attorneys to protect the assets that THEY spent years building???
They build products, we build teams. They will continue to sell products, and we will continue to build teams. They will eventually drop you too.
I think the actions of Alticor say all that needs to be said. If Orrin were imploding, they would sit back and let him. Their panic shows in their frantic efforts to block everyone on earth from ever talking to Orrin and again, and to stop those who still like him from ever earning an income. They could win every single court action, and they still have lost. And so have you. Because you believe them!!!
October 18th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
#103 BK - no Quixtar is not getting what it wants. The purpose of the Louisville meeting is NOT and never was to disparage Q. What Q wants is for Orrin to die a lonely death in poverty. And they will trample the rights (yes Bridgett, or should we call you Tex? you seem to be filling in for him) the RIGHTS we have to voice our opinions and meet with who ever we want to meet with.
Bye guys, I’m in Louisville and ready to head down to the round table meeting. Too bad I won’t hear any trash about Q; they seem to be generating that just fine without us.
October 18th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
#92 Jeff
You’re right on the money…that’s the bottom line..someone said the diamonds are giving up 500k..for most of ‘em, that’s bull..most diamonds support their lifestyle with tool and function money, period. Whaddya think they want to take everyone with them for ? They NEED that money from all of them spending cash on books, tapes and functions..period
I was very successful in the amway/quixtar business for many years. It’s bittersweet, as there are some great things about the business and some awful things. I can see where everyone is coming from, but as my once-upline diamond raids what’s left of my business with promises of wealth in the new soon to be “better than quixtar”, cheaper than walmart business, my residual goes down every month. This is the same “lifetime” income that we were all promised when we saw the plan. Quixtar has held up it’s end of the deal and is trying to protect that.
But I also have the inside scoop on what’s going on, as I have alot of friends who are still active..now moving to team..woodward and the boys are promoting great wealth through the tools and functions to the high-rollers..is that right ? put ‘em in faster than they get out and milk ‘em for everything you can while they’re in..I know that sounds harsh, but regardless of what you’re hearing from stage and how wonderful they sound, that’s what’s happening..It’s all based on greed, they have you where they want you to the point that some people would put their first born at woodward’s feet…yager, britt, the list goes on…now woodward and brady…research “dare to be great” years ago in florida and see what happened..same thing..be careful, don’t be a sucker..I know, I’ve been on the inside and I know just how these guys operate
October 18th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
#99 jfs:
“MOVE ON. They have.”
No they haven’t. They’re still on the ALTICOR site blogging their little hearts out.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
Wow, I disappear for a few hours and my name is listed no less than 10 times already. I didn’t know I would be “missed” so much.
Let’s just say I was doing some traveling and talking with some people in a distant city.
Bridgett did a fine job standing in for the truth, thanks Bridgett.
Now, where were we? Oh yeah,
LisBette #2,
Why would Q want to halt a meeting that has NOTHING to do with them? —- Because they have a court order they want to enforce.
I think your hatred of Orrin Woodward has blinded you to how nasty and vindictive you are being. —- There is no “hatred”, “nasty” or “vindictive” feelings towards Orrin. It’s quite simple, he screwed up by starting an “illegal pyramid” lawsuit, and Q is now putting the screws to him for doing that.
Crush Orrin at any cost–even if it means the rest of your innocent IBOs, the ones who were never affiliated with Team, all suffer the repercussions from trying to represent a company as viscious as yours. —- I’m not suffering at all, it’s fun to watch Q enforce their rules against a liar and a coward. Grab some popcorn and join us.
Your common sense is long gone. You clearly cannot see how you are damaging yourselves. The ONLY thing on your side is money. You can win every court battle, but you have still lost. Big. —- That would be your opinion, part way through the process. I think when we look back on this Orrin will be proven to have earned every negative comment made.
AEM #3,
I’d say many more Team and other IBO businesses were hurt by the e-mails, blogging and more e-mails lying about Orrin and Team than anything Team did. —- They may have taken some short term hits, but long term this was the right thing to do.
More than 7 thousand have left, probably lots more to follow. I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but the reason I’m leaving has everything to do with the way Alticor treated me and other IBO’s and very little to do with Team’s actions. Like I said I was on the fence till I read “Just go, Team.” And it only got more immature from there. —- You failed the IQ test. Bub-bye.
Bridgett #4,
Bingo. As usual.
SAK #5,
All I can say is thank GOD I am not an IBO with this company any more —- The feeling is mutual, I’m also glad you’re not an IBO any more.
You want Team gone just let them go. —- They did let them go, then Orrin filed the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit.
You are only making your new(old) name of Amway a cus word to all of North America. Why don’t you try to focus on the IBO’s who are staying with Amway and help them build a business instead of all of this energy to “tear” apart Team and any of it’s leaders. —- Don’t worry, they’re doing a fine job with those of us who are still IBO’s. Orrin did the damage with the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit, Q merely responded to protect their reputation.
Team is gone, what part of that can you not get a grasp on. HELP those who are left. —- TEAM is gone, now it’s time to grind them into the ground. They are helping those who are left, and doing a very fine job.
dannie #6,
I agree they could have gotten a ruling on this earlier, and the late timeframe may have been part of the judge’s decision making process. However, it did meet the primary goal, to get TEAM all “fired up”.
You have an issue with Orrin/Chris. Fine. But the very thing you CONTINUE to do….to penalize the rest of us just because we are affiliated with them is why we are leaving you in droves…it has NOT a thing to do with a SINGLE thing THEY have said or done to encourage us …YOU have given us all the encouragement we need to blog more, talk more, disparage you more. —- That’s the point, none of you are supposed to be going to another similar business for 6 months. You better behave yourselves in KY, because there will most certainly be spies there. Look for the guys in the dark suits, red ties, white shirts, and silly smirks on their faces, they could be one of the spies.
WHO DO YOU PEOPLE THINK YOU ARE? GIVE IT UP!
October 18th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
#119 janedoe:
Clinique, Estee Lauder and Lancome are all high end cosmetic/skin care lines. It’s apples to apples.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Are Tex and Bridgett going to be away from the blogs for awhile? Hmmm…I wonder if they are going to be moles in KY this weekend. I hope so, because on the off chance that they aren’t Q employees they will see in person what we are actually all about.
OK, back to my self-imposed exile…
October 18th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
Common Sense #9,
“Because the facts, the law and common sense are still on our side.” ….False statement…I am definitely NOT on your side. —- That’s okay, because you’re Common Sense in name only, not in reality.
I do have to hand it to you though. I have not seen too many (I did see a few in college) Individuals or companies who will crow just as loud when they lose as when they “win”. —- How is this different than the Orrinites claiming victory every time they lost a court case, in the name of “it’s part of the strategy”?
TEAM reminds me of the Knight in Monty Python’s Holy Grail who has his arms and legs both chopped off and continues to yell “come back..I’ll bite your ankles!” You get an A for determination OR an F in Reality Check…I’m not sure which one?
dannie #10,
The court order says this is what the “defendants” are enjoined from doing….notice the 3 times the word “or” is used?
Defendants are enjoined from (1) using their Line of Sponsorship to sell, distribute, promote competing products, services, or other business, ventures, or otherwise interfere in the business of Quixtar or its IBOs; (2) soliciting, recruiting, or attempting to recruit other IBOs to Compete with Quixtar’s business or take actions not in conformity with its Rules of Conduct; and (3) disparaging or intentionally diminishing the reputation of Quixtar.
I can promise you that Q never gave (or sold) me any leadership training, so nothing competing there…. —- Read the “or” words again.
and I can promise you there will be neither recruiting nor disparaging this weekend…as much as WE might prefer it (You’re clearly showing your court order violation side ), it will be something that Woodward/Brady would NEVER encourage or allow…even WITHOUT your lousy court order! —- Right, these are the same guys who filed the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit, which was the cause of the court order.
Scott #11,
I think you should reread the points again, a, b, and c.
Ron #12,
See my response to dannie, #6. By the way, the details were never provided to Q, as they requested.
Jesus freak #13,
Dude Jesus freak! That meeting has nothing to do with Q, but it may violate the rules! That’s why they are minding their own freaking company and not leaving people alone in Jesus’ name! Dude.
The Closer #14,
I will answer your silly question. Why do you want to so badly keep people that don’t want to stay? —- They don’t, they want them to go away, and follow the 6 month/2 year rules, and NOT file an “illegal pyramid” lawsuit.
It’s seriously like you think this is a communist country or something? You would be dead right now if they thought this was a Communist country.
I mean really, dead. Expired. Think about it. They DID just let you go, but Orrin filed the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit.
The reason for all the law suits, and especially against anonymous bloggers, is because Orrin started the ball rolling with his “illegal pyramid” !! It’s almost like East Germany… But you know, Orrin is very much like a big baby…. “I don’t want to follow the rules, so I’ll throw a tantrum!!!”
October 18th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
freedom #121
You have to see Orrin walk on water to have blind faith? That makes as much sense as a Quixtar Independent Business Owner. Also, don’t you understand why you are not getting your questions answered? Because your upline does not want to violate the non-compete. The problem with you people is we are damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
If you heard the Diamonds boasting Quixtar previous to our splitting it’s because as leaders they want to settle the problems in a professional manner, which is what they attempted to do on August 9th. Once they were “terminated” the gloves came off.
The blog sites have been created not from what Q did to our leaders as much as what Q has tried to do with the rest of TEAM. Attack after attack, it all started on the friday with the “letter of allegience” or termination. Our rights have been constantly trampled on with the culmination of the lawsuit of the blog sites to the attempt to not let us meet. If I was an IBO (got out a month ago thank God), I would be terrified at what could be next. remember, Quixtar said in court that they own you.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
Bridgett #15,
Correct.
Steve #16,
Enjoy your meeting in KY, it may be the last time you see Orrin and Chris for a VERY long time.
Bridgett #17,
Exactly.
AEM #18,
TEAM is their own business, remember all the money being made on tools? The press stated somewhere around $3 million will be made by Orrin and Co. this weekend.
Steve #19,
If you’re skin is that thin, we don’t want you. Bub-bye.
freedom #20,
1) I’m not sure they are breaking any rules with “pre-launch” plans. As long as the business isn’t “launched” for at least 6 months and they don’t approach any IBO’s, they are probably following the rules. Looks like pretty thin ice, however. And arbitration will be much less forgiving in this interpretation than a courtroom would be. I think they will be careful what they say in KY, as they know spies will be present.
2) Bingo.
3) Bingo again.
4) That’s right, the only reason TEAM made money is because they were hiding behind the Q products. Now that the “cover” is gone, they have to find something else to hide behind or sell only “leadership” training, like how to break multiple rules for several years, get terminated, and file an “illegal pyramid” lawsuit that gets DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE. Some leadership resume.
How does your upline respond to this question?
amazed #21,
Communist monarchy? Do you realize how LITTLE sense that makes? Get a clue!
Any judge that makes an order to remove constitutional rights, other than for a temporary domestic wartime event, would never be re-elected! —- Many judges are appointed, and no Constitutional rights were removed.
Quixtar has lost thousands already, and every foolish move by the attorney brigade will just cost more bad PR and IBO’s. It’s approaching domestic terrorism! —- Thousands who didn’t want to follow the rules, or were too thin skinned to accept the facts. Domestic terrorism, you are amazing.
I still hope that the founding families will pull their heads out of the sand, fire the idiots who are propagating the “war on TEAM”, and salvage what is left of the relationships! Unfortunately, it may already be too late! —- The founding families probably gave the lawyers the orders to ” Go sic ‘em”.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
hey tex — I for one didn’t miss you and your anger -Please go back to the basement and finish your cookies, the milks getting warm.
Your story is old, your insults are even older, I am sure you enjoy the attention for now, let’s see where this is in a year. I doubt you’ll be on here defending the actions of Q/A. I’m sure this is only the beginning.
Lets see, Q/A said they would never advertise, was a waste of money and that’s what IBO’s do, well I guess they changed there mind, seen the ads all over? they said they wouldn’t open retail shops, said I couldn’t sell the stuff in my retail shop, well I guess they changed the rules and their minds on that too …… I have never heard team say a bad word about Q/A other than the fact that Q/A was not working in the IBO’s best interest. So we are where we are now? I’s say a lot of people will be eating crow and not cookies and milk with you in about a year.
Til then, I will just keep passing on the message of higher morales and better life choices without belittleing and spreading bad rumors and lies. Try the higher ground for a change, the view is much better.
Anyway sorry to waste my time talking to you but man you do waste a ton f time on all the blogs.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
#109 I noticed you said you had A customer at retail, the team’s exact complaint. It is sad when you can brag about A retail customer.
Everyone else against team for making money from the tools, let me explain our position. You are upset because we make so much money from the tools like books and cd’s. Well, so does Barnes and Nobles but you still like them as a partner store. Also, the complaint shouldn’t be how much money we make on the tools (we are capitalists aren’t we?), but rather why we make so little on overpriced products. Why won’t the Q learn a thing or two from the teams tool flow profitability and apply it to the products. If they did that then other companies like P&G and Target would have websites dedicated to how the Q is making too much money from the product flow and should get kicked out of retailing!!!
Admin, I wrote something earlier and it is not posted. Was it too inflamatory so you deleted it or is it still being checked? Thanks!!!
October 18th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
Thunderstruck #133
I would totally agree with your assesment…EXCEPT…a combination of three uplines (all the way to Diamond) did tell me they wanted me to join their team after they had either quit or were fired, showed me a team brochure from the St. George conference after he quit, spoke at a team open after he was kicked out, personally went out and picked up team CD’s to promote at at a monthly meeting after the team lost the lawsuit, and gave me CD’s at the end of an evening where he spent two hours trying to sell me on the team while still constantly avoiding any questions about the future. And let’s not forget the conversations had to include the phrase “you are not taping this, right.”
They can recruit me, give me CD’s, ask me to be a part of their team, even tell me they will position me better in the new team since our “legs” were only with Quixtar and now Platinums/Diamonds, etc. can put me anywhere they want without anyone’s permission, but when I ask about any FUTURE information they dodge those questions like the plague.
That’s what I mean about blind faith. If I see Orrin do what Jesus did I will believe with blind faith. Until I see that I will ask legitimate questions. I’m putting my family and my children’s future on the line with this decision. And I won’t put my families future in a team basket UNLESS one of my uplines can stop the double standard, question dodging, “we are going to build our MLM during this 6-month period by calling it a “pre-launch” but we are righteous and Quixtar is bad” type stuff and stop trying to intentionally deceive me.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:25 pm
Bridgett #22,
Yep.
fuddman #23,
How about fantasy vs. reality?
amazed #24,
The rule is not limited to MLM, read the rule again. Your “profit sharing” is a network, you lose, again.
promiseland #25,
We just want you to leave, and all Orrin had to do was wait 6 months and not file the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit. But he didn’t.
Rico #26,
Walk, just follow the rules as you walk.
CC #27,
Dude indeed.
The Closer #28,
I can’t appreciate your points, seriously I can’t.
I’ve been involved for much more than five years, building hard and trying to make Q’s and everyone else’s businesses profitable.
This isn’t about keeping people who don’t want to stay though….
From my perspective, the upline doesn’t care about us, the IBO, at all. You don’t have to look far to find out that Orrin and other lying cowardly “kingpins” have been ripping us off via the tool scam for years, to make ALL of our lives and businesses less profitable. Just make the prices “somewhat” competitive!! If you haven’t seen the tool scam facts all over the internet, check it out, pretty telling.
So instead of working together to make the IBO’s business easier to grow instead of their tool scam business way more profitable, they simply ignored the corp and smeared Q’s reputation. Seems to be pretty bad business practices.
To be honest, I was a very strong supporter of Q, and am even more so after their recent actions. Even if I wasn’t involved with TEAM before, it’s disgusting what Orrin has done, I’m sure I would stick after watching their actions recently.
From here it seems as if they only care about themselves, their huge profit margins, and NOT us.
But again, that’s just my perspective. If you still want to be affliated with TEAM, I wish you the best (assuming it isn’t another tool scam) and hope that they never turn on you and your leadership….
October 18th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
dannie #29,
I (and thousands more…many thousands more) CAN NOT wait for arbitration. You may not legally be out of Q and they may be able to stick their nose in YOUR business. And you may not be able to coerce, contact, solicit etc. any of my upline OR downline for the more than the required 2 yrs.
BUT… I like to say that Orrin will rue the day……Right back at’cha, dannie!
freedom #30,
Do you realize most Diamonds didn’t continue to qualify as Diamonds? The second hand information your Platinum passed along, regarding the $500,000 Q money, would only apply to a very large Diamond business, one that would probably resulted in a Founders Diamond business, which is not common. Most Diamond pins probably make about $100,000 in Q money, and about $400,000 in tool scam money.
You have every right to question their integrity and motives. Let’s assume they are telling lies.
They not only lose that money, but they lose all the corporation paid trips. These Diamonds have build a lifestyle of homes, cars, income and trips.
So you have Diamond level IBO’s who lose over $500,000 a year in income and all their free trips become out of pocket expenses.
The only way to get paid trips is to build those “perks” into the team compensation plan, but that would….take money from paying IBO’s.
They can’t make back that $500,000 a year without……taking money from paying IBO’s.
They can’t make the extra money to pay for what used to be free trips unless they…..take money from paying IBO’s.
They made their Quixtar money off over a million products and according to what you heard the intial launch will be limited products so most IBO’s will be shopping at Wal Mart, Target, etc. for the majority of their products now so they won’t make money there unless they……take money from paying IBO’s.
Every time you asked your Platinum what the Diamonds, what the team, would do with the compensation plan after the 6-month period was up they totally dodged the question, because they are lying cowards. You asked many times where the income will come from once Diamonds start getting paid again and they dodge the questions.
What I know is this, the Platinums and above, since they would have been paid in the old system, have a lot of incentive to get you to stay with them and dodge all of your questions even though a couple slip ups lead you to believe they already know what the plans are. Because if you stay, and they change the compensation plan and it hurts you, they still get paid a lot.
After all of that, you’re going to be really interested in March when my platinum fills you in on the details of what they are doing and how the new compensation plan works? Really?
October 18th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
Thunderstruck #133
One other thing that gets me about all this. It’s not just what I’ve been hearning for the last few months or so. You said.
“If you heard the Diamonds boasting Quixtar previous to our splitting it’s because as leaders they want to settle the problems in a professional manner, which is what they attempted to do on August 9th. Once they were “terminated” the gloves came off.”
Here is my one problem with every “Orrin is righteous” argument. Let’s assume Orrin was trying to settle things in a professional manner like you say. And let’s assume the gloves came off and he filed the illegal pyramid lawsuit after. I’ve heard other Diamonds on the team acknowledge Orrin got on the board and has had problems with Quixtar stuff for the last couple years. So my biggest questions are….
Orrin proclaims himself a man of faith. Where in the Bible does Jesus say, when things don’t go your way then let the gloves come off? Especially by filing a lawsuit that, having been thrown out with prejudice, shows it accomplished nothing but to hurt many, many, many IBO’s both on the team and in Quixtar.
And if that lawsuit isn’t filed, based on the history of Quixtar allowing Diamonds to leave quietly, would Quixtar have gone after Orrin if he just quietly waited out his 6-months?
Did Orrin just realize it was an illegal pyramid about three months ago?
If Orrin knows it’s an illegal pyramid, what does that say about him that he continued to tell everyone to put people in the illegal pyramid while he tried to “settle the problems in a professional manner”?
If he settled the problems with Quixtar and they relented to the changes Orrin wanted, would Orrin have continued to build his illegal pyramid or quit?
People want me to believe Orrin did this all because he’s some righteous man looking out for the little IBO’s. Why wasn’t he looking out for all of us over the last many, many, many years while he was making truckloads of money?
October 19th, 2007 at 12:05 am
amazed #31,
You are a Disabled American Veteran who voluntarily offered your life to fight enemies both foreign AND domestic? —- Head wound?
If you have a challenge with the likeness being presented of Alticor and a “Communistic Monarchy”, perhaps that issue should be taken up with the idiots who decided to ask a judge to violate my constitutional right of assembly? —- First of all, “Communistic Monarchy” makes no sense, you can’t have both simultaneously. Look up the terms in a dictionary. It would be like having dry water. Secondly, the judge didn’t violate your Constitutional right of assembly, the KY meeting is going on as planned. The non-compete/non-solicitation rules are very much like many other companies have, and are commonly accepted by the court system.
If Alticor/Amway/Quixtar wants to ask, you would gladly testify in court how your consitutional rights have been challenged by them and how you are posting on an “open forum” without guidance from any of the leaders of TEAM? —- Q never challenged people posting on this blog, but maybe they should….
I continue to have great respect for Amway, but not with these “illegal pyramid” attacks from Orrin and Co.
Utah #32,
Why would Q/A cause what would be a hardship on thousands of people, most of which purchased their tickets and airline tickets prior to 8/9? —- Because they believed the meeting was a violation of the court order.
This is got to be one more step for Q/A trying to cause most IBOs to think that the people running TEAM are idiots and just want the rest of “Team” to Go, if they continue to be Orrinites.
The Kent County judge specifically said on the original suit clarification that as long as Team didn’t violate 1,2 & 3, that Q/A can’t do anything to hurt Team’s business. Q/A has not been violating that order, IMHO, and if Ron Simmons is correct, they are violating the Texas injustion still in place, which it apparently isn’t, because the TEAM lawyers haven’t done anything to protest this situation.
This move wouldn’t hurt Team? —- You don’t think people would ask for their ticket money back? , (They already have the money for the tickets, and the tickets are a fraction of the cost of going) it would hurt tens of thousands of people, some of which are still IBOs, some of which aren’t. With airfare, hotels, car rental, the costs to thousands of people would be $ thousands, and do you think they would go after Team if Q/A shut it down, no, all of those would go after Q/A and any judge in the country would rule in the ticket holders favor.
Can you say that the attorneys of Q/A are idiots?
October 19th, 2007 at 12:07 am
lossing integrity quixtar ibo’s!!!!
if the company feel’s bad,the ibo feel so bad!!!
October 19th, 2007 at 12:15 am
freedom #137
what is a St. George conference? What brochure? Are you now, or have you ever been part of TEAM? Also, I find it hard to believe you had 3 uplines all the way up to a diamond “recruit” you to stay with TEAM. In addition, I find it impossible to believe anybody would position you better, that is totally against what Orrin and Chris believe in. Name your diamond who would do this, funny thing, we don’t call old diamonds from the Q days diamond anymore.Frankly, I think you’re all fluff.
October 19th, 2007 at 12:18 am
Amway realist #33,
I admire your desperate love of TEAM. I however cannot believe your ignorance. You are completely lost as to what the Team is and isn’t. There is LOS in the Team. There is MLM/Network structure! One of the Team attorneys has stated on an affidavit that there is a plan for a business in the future but one is not completed at this time. These are all facts readily available for anyone to find in many of this blogs posts!
Quixtar is simply trying to enforce their court order and attack Orrin! In the meantime, Orrin couldn’t care less if he hurts the former IBO’s who have left. It is obvious that Q wants keep Orrin in court forever to stop a successful launch of the future endevour and bleed him dry with lawyer bills. This company isn’t looking out for anyone but the IBO’s, Devos and Van Andel families! Ask the IBO’s in the UK where their Diamonds were just terminated over a dispute, many of them are very happy.
I hope this isn’t too friggin hard to understand! Ridiculous unintelligent opinions such as your posts do nothing but confuse an already sad situation! So, when you sit down at breakfast with your brother Bozo the Clown this morning..pray for guidance and understanding…you both need it!
AEM #34,
Nobody has a issue with following clauses in contracts, except Orrin and Co. If Quixtar is illegally operating then the contracts with those clauses would be non-binding. Therefore no non-compete no non-solicitation. The issue was blackmailing Quixtar, not inability to follow the rules.
I’ve never heard anyone from team use that phrase “the power of submission”. Never heard them talk about submission, heard them talk about following the system the same way you’d follow a receipe, but that’s it. —- That is a Britt/WWDB line.
“This isn’t just about this one time in history. This is about also making sure that it doesn’t happen again”. Alticor shows no signs of figuring out how to prevent things like this from happening in the future. —- Sure they do, make Orrin and Co. pay such a high price, any other wayward IBO will think twice before they pull the same stunt.
Their North American business has flatlined since about 1980, that’s caused by the tool scam. Every so many years a bunch of diamonds and above either quit or get terminated. That’s caused by the tool scam too. The answer to keep this from happening again is to listen to the IBO’s. Their finger is on the pulse of the business so much more than Alticor’s. Don’t listen to the IBOAI, all they care about is the tool profits.
October 19th, 2007 at 12:30 am
freedom #140
You’re argument about Orrin continuing the business despite thinking it became a pyramid is good thought, except all other Q bloggers also state Q tried to get Orrin to change for years. I believe, if both are true, that each tried to work things out. Tried, but failed, to reach a compromise. TEAM continuously changed things and techniques per Q’s “request” but Q never considered Orrins requests (lower prices). I have heard Orrin talk about lower prices for 5 years, but it fell on deaf ears. Q really started to treat TEAM people unfairly, and made us jump thru hoop after hoop. Then came the name change, that is a joke! Going back to Amway is going to kill the business I believe. So many people would ask us if this was Amway during a presentation, with each question directed toward Amway being negative. So I believe this whole thing is a cumulation of events. I also truly believe Orrin classifies Q as a pyramid even though a few years ago he didn’t.
If the problems would have been settled, everything would have stayed the same except with our system building we all, including Q would have made alot more money.
Regarding Orrin being rightous. He is one of the most rightous people I have ever met. One thing nobody seems to be considering is this: Yes, he has a ton of money. So, why is he still fighting? Why not take the money and run? He has enough to live comfortably the rest of his life and then some. How many “leaders” have quit once an abstacle occurs ( think of the guy from the gas pill…what is his name? Mimms?) anyway. He is in this fight, using HIS OWN money, for a better future for all IBO’s. Why do you think so many are following him?
October 19th, 2007 at 12:33 am
TEX, I did not ask for your two cents, and it isn’t even worth that.
October 19th, 2007 at 12:35 am
Tex #144
IF there is a future plan….so what? Can we not talk about our future as long as we don’t “recruit”? Also, what LOS in TEAM? I see none on the website, and if there was, so what, does that mean we are in a COMPETING mlm? NO, in fact, we teach the opposite of Q. We teach integrity, character, and helping others. Q’s tactic of trying to get our Louisville meeting cancelled is bush league. Far as I’m concerned, there is no competition between Q and TEAM. If Q wants us to go quietly they should stop messing with us.
October 19th, 2007 at 12:43 am
Tex #144
You’re response to AEM#34 hits is right on the head on the difference between what we teach and what Q and people like you teach. Make Orrin Pay such a high price to make others think twice about pulling the same stunt? Are you serious? That type of mentallity will put you out of business. In making Orrin pay such a high price has many current IBO’s scared! Q isn’t directing the cost of Orrin’s decisions just at him, but at all of us. How can that help your business? To get people to not want to leave, you simply have to create an atmosphere so they DONT WANT TO LEAVE. Remember, you can’t get anybody to do anything for you unless you make them want to do it. That’s from “How To Win Friends and Influence People”, I suggest you read it.
October 19th, 2007 at 2:47 am
Dannie #77,
Yes. Q spent years building THEIR LOS. With TEAM supplying a lot of the work. It is a TEAM effort after all, isn’t it?
But TEAM’s proponents seem to forget that somebody had to provide the products: manufacture them, do the R&D to develop them, have the systems and hardware (Warehouses etc) in place to get them to your doorstep, get all the systems in place to record your purchases, accumulate PV/BV, pay your commissions, organise your trips, etc etc etc.
Do you think the Nutrilite product happened by accident - there are thousand of hectares of farm to manage, manufacturing facilities to set up, quality control - so YOU can go into the living room and say: “we have the best vitamins money can buy.”
And say: “We have the best anti-aging products on the market”
And say: “We have the best water purification system on the planet. Ask the NSF.
And say: “Artistry is one of the top 5 luxury cosmetic brands.”
Forget about the partner stores, that is not what Q/A is about.
Forget about the toilet paper, the diapers, the paper cups.
Focus on the products that are your core competency.
October 19th, 2007 at 3:11 am
Tex 134
AEM #18,
“TEAM is their own business, remember all the money being made on tools? The press stated somewhere around $3 million will be made by Orrin and Co. this weekend”.
I don’t doubt a lot of profit will exist for Team. You know they could just keep it all, but instead they pay it back out. Enough is kept to keep Team running, but that’s all. And if you’re thinking “how much do they need to ‘keep it running’?”. I don’t know exactly, but based on the amount they don’t keep, I don’t care how much they keep, they give plenty back out. I think they are just telling the truth. Important to note, I’ve never heard any Team leader ever promote building a network of people just to sell them tools. Conquer, fortify, domesticate.
How unlike you to not provide a link to this information if one exists. And why do you copy and paste what people have posted changing a few words to completely reverse their points?
October 19th, 2007 at 3:12 am
Bridgett #73
#34 AEM
“The California court has ruled that Quixtar IS a legal business. So all contracts ARE binding. Period”.
The CA court deferred to the ruling made in Michigan.
Right after the suit was filed in CA, Quixtar filed suit in Michigan, asking for the court to enforce the arbitration agreement. The court ruled that since the case in CA was addressing different issue’s than the case at hand, he ruled on the case at hand without judgment on the CA case. The question of the Quixtar’s legality has still not been addressed in court, there is no court ruling on it either way.
October 19th, 2007 at 3:13 am
The question of Quixtar’s legality has still not been addressed in court, there is no court ruling on it either way.
This a correction of the last line of my last post.
October 19th, 2007 at 3:31 am
As far as I’m concerned Team and Quixtar are completing businesses. Quixtar figured it out with the learning lab, they could have listened to the board they agreed to consult. Is it still price fixing if you are fixing to lower it and reduce profit margins? I’m not sure. The point is that if Amway dropped prices back in ‘97, and stayed competitive, Team would be moving so much of their product.
October 19th, 2007 at 6:47 am
Alticor:
I accept where you are at because your understanding can only go as far as your learning.
I approve your business opportunity idea of wanting to help people be successful.
I appreciate the fact that you are there for people who do need to be a part of you to become successful.
Right now, I’m going to go and eat some “Kentucky Fried Chicken” and maybe pick me up a “Louisville Slugger”.
Don’t worry, no one at the leadership convention will talk me out of resigning from Quixtar because I am not a Quixtar IBO.
October 19th, 2007 at 7:39 am
#133 Thunderstruck.
I am not terrified, because I follow rules.
October 19th, 2007 at 7:51 am
Bridgett
On the FreeTheIBO.com website there is loads of documentation regarding the CA courtcase. The link for the document cotaining the termination letter is
http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Compendium_of_Exhibits.pdf
October 19th, 2007 at 10:33 am
If you lok at the IBOAI suit against TEAM you will see that what they call “trade secrets” are in fact statistics that show the complete failure of Quixtar. They include the exceedingly high dropout rate of IBOS, the truth that retail sales are virtually nonexistent, etc. Quixtar, after 7 years comes out and admits that the name “never caught on”. The kingpins voted 100% a no-confidence vote in the business transformation and name change back to Amway. Yet, the IBOAI kingpin leaders, continue to tell the masses of downline, “I am all fired up; this is the best opportunity in the world; we are excited about the transformation and the name change. They are the most greedy, predictably fradulent men I have ever seen. And yes, TEAM will expect about $3 million for their upcoming Louisville weekend event. The same that WWDB expects from their FED & Spring Leadership and the millions for their Dream nigts and Family Reunions and the millions from their Kate, CDs, books, etc. This is not just about TEAM. This is about WWDB, Britt, Yager, etc. They hurt and financially steal from all of the IBOs. When you say “this lifestyle” is from Quixtar when in fact it is from motivational blah, it is fraud!
October 19th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
This is really a question to the blog Administrator, however, anyone can weigh in as you wish.
Please read my earlier post 65
Oh and again A… Z if I miss spell something
Administrator, after thinking about this more, what constitues “solicitation”.
For now I have no reason to quit Quixtar and no reason to quit TEAM.
TEAM now is a “Leadership development company” which I use that term losesly simply because, to my knowledge, they are still paying platinums and up based on the moving materials through the current LOS.
However, if TEAM launches a new competing business line outside of the Leadership line in March and they promote that new business at TEAM meetings and I go to those meetings for “Leadership info training” wouldn’t that be solicitation for the next 1.6 years until Orrin’s two years are up?
Just wondering where the fine line is.
Thanks Administrator
October 19th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
This whole fight sickens me. It’s like a bunch of school kids quarreling on the playground. Why can’t they resolve this issue. What is Amway trying to prove? They are biting their nose off to spite their face. Stupid…very stupid. http://www.michigandems.com/101807prs.html
October 19th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
Could someone clarify some things for me . . . I understand that the judge has ruled that the TEAM meeting in KY can go on, which in theory I understand. Here is where I’m confused:
Is Woodward going to be speaking there??
Is Woodward profitting from this??
What will the meetings be about?? They wouldn’t be about Quixtar if Orin is leading it, right?? Since he is no longer an IBO, that would seem odd and TEAM tools can’t be promoted to IBOs. They can’t be about TEAM or another type of MLM because that would be recruiting . . . so . . . I’m curious as to what will be going on.
Please explain.
October 19th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
I didn’t see any reference to the cases in Texas? What, not full disclosure from these titians of integrity?
October 19th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Jason 101
I enjoyed your answer to Just Wondering’s (65) questions. Thanks a lot for your insight. You sound like you are pretty informed. I have a lot of questions too, but am not really much of a blogger. Keep posting. I will be looking for your posts and skipping over Bridget’s & Tex’s.
October 19th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
NL #160
“Is Woodward going to be speaking there??”
My understanding, it will be all of the Leaders in Team will be there. Does it matter if Woodward is speaking? He has not be banned from this event.
“Is Woodward profitting from this??”
ALL of the speakers receive payment for speaking.
“What will the meetings be about??”
LEADERSHIP! That is what Team is all about.
“Since he is no longer an IBO, that would seem odd and TEAM tools can’t be promoted to IBOs. They can’t be about TEAM or another type of MLM because that would be recruiting…”
I think that you might be assuming that there will be Q* IBO’s at this Leadership Convention… I’ll take a wild guess and say that everyone that will be there are all FORMER IBO’s.
Team promotes Leadership, not a business.
Hope that helps you to understand.
October 19th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Claude,
Thanks, although I am not sure how well informed I am, I still don’t know anything about what is coming down the line, but I think by keeping it as simple as possible and reading the California lawsuit it is very easy to see what TEAM believes and since Quixtar is fighting them it is then easy to see Quixtar’s side, so to me the question becomes a very easy one of which side are you on and are you willing to stand up for it. Make a decision, instead of waiting to see which company offers the best deal in the future, the question is really what do you think is right, and then take the necessary action. Living according to yourown principles is more important then making money.
Jason
October 19th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Oh and Claude go ahead and post your questions,
no promises but we can try and find some answers. I am still looking for some answers as well.
Jason
October 19th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
blocking my post again???
October 19th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
#166 TEAM_MEX: This time, yes. Not always. But you have to post something more than a personal attack.
October 19th, 2007 at 10:04 pm
Janedoe,
Thanks!! I checked with someone else too (before I saw your post) and was told about the same thing. Apparently, leaders in TEAM who are still IBOs will not be speaking, and there should be outside leadership speakers as well.
Of course, it doesn’t matter if Woodward is there. Just, with what I had pictured in my head, I was thinking it would not be a smart move for him to be there (but I was off-base in what I was picturing).
Thanks again for the explanation!!! Have a great weekend!!!
October 19th, 2007 at 10:07 pm
TEAM_MEX # 166
See, this is the way it goes…Tex and Bridgett can post nothing else but personal attacks, but the others of us can’t.
October 19th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
Thunderstruck #143
St. George was a conference in Utah. It was a Don Wilson/Randy Haugen conference. Most out of state people flew to Vegas and drove up the highway to attend.
The brochure was actually a very professional piece of literature. 8 1/2″ x 11″ fold out and when you open it up the two pages on the inside had pictures of the leaders like Don, Randy, Chris, Orrin, Chuck and others along with a little bio. It was a mini profiles of success.
My Platinum told me since Quixtar IBO numbers are the only LOS we have, they can move people wherever they feel is best without worrying about different legs or where you are in the leg.
As for the fluff???? Well, let’s see. I’ll skip by the $300 (plus tax) top 50 that is always promoted, because everybody could know about that. I’ll skip the first 30 day pack (4 CD’s and 2 DVD’s). The “follow up” CD with Chris and Orrin on stage after an open is actually a good, informative CD (nice of Chris to say Orrin would be the funny one). There is the DVD with Chris showing the plan on the white board along with Tim Marks and the Freeses(sp??) on the DVD is another one. Of course there is the 1st night pack (with CD’s and book), the 2nd night pack and Power Player pack (with CD’s and mini-brochure).
But anyone could have known that. How about I just pull out my light blue book with the team logo that says, “The Team Builders Textbook, Building Communities in the Information Age.” You know, the “fluff” with a black bar at the bottom with Orrin and Chris’ names in it. The one that starts with Chapter 1: Dreams, Chapter 2: Wealth Thinking and goes through Chapter 12: Conclusion, with a finishing personal story by Doug and Sheri Stroh.
Again…..as a person who was a part of the team, I will continue to ask questions until the leaders stop intentionally deceiving people and start answering questions. My upline is following on blind faith, not asking a single question, like this is some cult or something.
There is something to be said for loyalty, but at some point you have to think for yourself. I swear, if my Diamond said drink this cyanide and blame it on Quixtar I believe my Platinum would jump up and beg to be first.
The team might actually have something great, but to me, at this juncture, the way nobody will answer questions and will dodge every question I ask, I’m not going to jump into the “just wait 6-months THEN WE WILL GIVE YOU INFORMATION” bandwagon.
October 19th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
jerandi #35,
Quixtar wasn’t worried about raiding when several of my top IBO’s joined Meleluca and began rading my buisness. —- Did you notify Q of this issue?
Or the ones that were recruting into 3 5 or more muli levels at a time. —- Ditto.
They had no interest in helping me then. —- Why didn’t you start an arbitration process?
Now they throw people out and some leave on there own accord to follow the people who got them in? —- What would you do instead?
They are scared becase these guys have money connections and know how to build this business. —- They have a funny way of showing they are “scared”, steamrolling over Orrin on nearly every opportunity.
over the last 15 years TEAM and LEGACY have taken their turns as the two fastest growing groups year after year. —- Now they are the two fastest disasters. That’s their “legacy” and how Orrin defines “together everyone achieves more”.
As of last week all of my upline Diamonds Emeralds and Platinums have left. —- Good riddance.
Many I have known for over 15 years. They have never led me wrong yet. —- They scammed you on the tools.
So if they are leaving there is a good reason. And now my upline is someone I don’t know with no system no credibility. Yes its time to go. —- The reason is they are tool scammers, your new upline has much more credibility if they are not running a tool scam. Yes it is time for you to go. Bub-bye.
Brad #36,
I am appalled at the actions of TEAM, Legacy, and 5K. I have defended these lying cowards for many years, I believed that the values of Rich Devos and Jay Van Andel were at the heart of the these tool scammers. My mistake, you are acting just like any other valueless lying cowardly “kingpins”. I didn’t refuse to allow my children to buy “Pringles potatoe chips” by Proctor & Gamble because of the actions of anybody. You are now making a mockery of the belief I had in my upline, because they deserve it. I thought TEAM, Legacy, and 5K stood for “High Core Values”? Shame on all of you.
Richard the Lion-Hearted #37,
I’m here, fingernails are fine. Had to do some traveling and talk to some people, if you know what I mean….
MGA #39,
You need to keep reading for comprehension. The reason the judge ruled as he did was apparently because most of the tickets were bought prior to August 9, and had little to do with the rules. Orrin probably won’t be able to hold a January 08 meeting.
Hopefully for the factory, not many people are really paying attention to all this and are going about their lives. But I suspect y’all are going to live with the ramifications of your actions over this for a long, long time. —- The factory? If you mean the Q employees, they are getting a kick out of this, especially yours truly. Just GO, TEAM.
jack #40,
Isn’t all this interesting? Amway started the week out by enforcing their court order. By the end of the week they are attempting to enforce the 6 month rule, but Orrin squirmed out of it, because most of the KY tickets were purchased prior to Aug 9. And you call yourselve the TEAM, all you are is liars, cowards, and cheaters. All that I see is that the leadership of “TEAM” has spent too much time in Russia and China and don’t understand that men and women fought for the rights and spilt their precious blood so that we as Americans could choose to gather in a peaceful manor, as long as you follow the rules. I am glad you chose to resign because I have no passion for the name of TEAM and especially now that I see the transformation to an arbitration process.
Long live our great nation and the basic rights given to us by our fore-fathers, and especially the great news of getting rid of the TEAM tool scammers.
October 20th, 2007 at 1:27 am
onemill #44,
If you didn’t know about the new rules, YOUR UPLINE and the IBOAI let you down, not Q. The non-compete was added after the TIF issue, to protect our businesses. Get a clue.
Q has been getting advice from the IBOAI, which has been proven to be more interested in their tool scam than representing the IBO’s. The IBOAI is therefore inept.
Lajinito #76,
I’m right here, everything is fine. Thanks for your “concern”.
duckpond #84,
Two people, very similar fact based positions.
steve #90,
Terrible analogy.
freeatlast #91,
Grow up.
janedoe #102,
I think Bridgett was originally against the name change, but now sees it as an advantage, as it was one of the tools that flushed out the tool scammers, especially Orrin and Co.
Bridgett #114,
You stood in my place admirably. Hey TEAMsters….. I’m BBBAAAACCCCCKKKKKKK.
Thunderdunce #120,
Q viewed the KY meeting as a recruiting effort.
glenn #135,
I didn’t miss you, you loser.
I’m sure this is only the beginning. The beginning of the whooping that Orrin and Co. will receive.
Lets see, Q/A said they would never advertise, was a waste of money and that’s what IBO’s do, well I guess they changed there mind, seen the ads all over? —- Where did you see them say that, are you lying again?
They said they wouldn’t open retail shops, said I couldn’t sell the stuff in my retail shop, well I guess they changed the rules and their minds on that too —- Where did they change these rules, or are you back to proving how stupid you are?
I think the illegal pyramid lawsuit says it all.
You stay on that high ground, I need a good target.
It’s not wasted time, it has gotten rid of Orrin, IBS, and we’re working on the other lying cowardly “kingpins”. Not bad results for a blogger with the facts.
freedom #140,
The purpose of the lawsuit was to get as many of his Orrinite followers to sympathize with him and leave Q. It worked at first. Now he has to face the music in arbitration. It won’t work there.
Thunderdunce #145,
So, why is he still fighting? Why not take the money and run? —- I think two reasons. One, he believes his own press, big mistake. Second, he wants more money.
SAK #146,
I’ll give my opinion when I want, whether you want it or not.
Thunderdunce #147,
The time of you going quietly has passed.
Thunderdunce #148,
You’re response to AEM#34 hits is right on the head on the difference between what we teach and what Q and people like you teach. Make Orrin Pay such a high price to make others think twice about pulling the same stunt? Are you serious? —- Yes I’m serious. Orrin and Co. caused great damage, now they will pay for it in arbitration.
That type of mentallity will put you out of business. In making Orrin pay such a high price has many current IBO’s scared! —- Current IBO’s are scared if they are following the rules.
Q isn’t directing the cost of Orrin’s decisions just at him, but at all of us. How can that help your business? —- By slamming Orrin, the rest of the lying cowardly “kingpins” will fall. Orrin is yesterday’s news.
To get people to not want to leave, you simply have to create an atmosphere so they DONT WANT TO LEAVE. Remember, you can’t get anybody to do anything for you unless you make them want to do it. That’s from “How To Win Friends and Influence People”, I suggest you read it. —- I don’t want to leave, because Q is finally showing some backbone, 24 YEARS after the “Directly Speaking” tapes came out. I read the book, but it doesn’t apply to liars and cowards.
AEM #150,
Paying it back out to the higher pins is the tool scam, you obviously are too dense to see that.
Important to note, I’ve never heard any Team leader ever promote building a network of people just to sell them tools. Conquer, fortify, domesticate. —- Of course you’ve never heard them say that, people would leave in droves. The other terms get people “fired up”, so they can reach into your back pocket and extract maximum cash.
How unlike you to not provide a link to this information if one exists. And why do you copy and paste what people have posted changing a few words to completely reverse their points? —- The story came from the Grand Rapids newspaper, look it up yourself. I copy and past, then change a few words because it’s easy, fun, and gets on their nerves. Looks like it’s working, too.
John #157,
The saddest part is Rich DeVos discussed these issues in 1983, and we’re finally resolving the tool scam. However, we are resolving it, which is good news.
Just Wondering #158,
Why don’t you just try it and see what happens? Let us know how it worked out.
Lisa #159,
That link is very stupid.
NL #160,
Is Woodward going to be speaking there?? —-Probably, but as a “guest” speaker, since he resigned from TEAM.
Is Woodward profitting from this?? —- Of course.
What will the meetings be about?? They wouldn’t be about Quixtar if Orin is leading it, right?? —- How to tool scam your group, it has nothing to do with Quixtar, they are selling “leadership” for now.
Since he is no longer an IBO, that would seem odd and TEAM tools can’t be promoted to IBOs. They can’t be about TEAM or another type of MLM because that would be recruiting . . . so . . . I’m curious as to what will be going on. Please explain. —- They need to keep the troops “fired up” until they can start their new venture. But first, they have to get past arbitration.
Claude #162,
Definitely skip over Bridgett and my posts, we wouldn’t want to confuse you with the facts.
janedoe #163,
You don’t think there will be ANY IBO’s in KY? I think many are sitting on the fence.
October 20th, 2007 at 11:36 am
#158 Just Wondering
You say you have no reason to quit Quixtar and you have no reason to quit TEAM? It is my impression that if you stay with Quixtar they will not allow you to be a part of TEAM. TEAM also is no longer teaching anything to do with Quixtar, so if you stay with TEAM why do you need to stay with Quixtar. I guess what I am saying is, I dont believe either side will let you be “in” both, so I think you have a big reason to make a choice. Also, with such a vast difference in what the two companies believe, how could you be at peace with yourself if you stay in both.
One final thought, in both of your posts you seem to be upset with TEAM, could it be you are leaning toward Quixtar and have already made your decision? You don’t have to answer anything on the blog, just giving you something to think about.
Jason
October 20th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
JanDoe “ALL of the speakers receive payment for speaking.”
What is your source of information for that statement. Do you work for the TEAM accounting office?
Wouldn’t it be possible for someone to donate their time to speak?
If he speaks, I don’t care one way or another if he receives compensation or not. I just don’t understand how you can know with such certainty that all will receive payment? They might…but how can you personally verify that?
Just Wondering # 158 says:
“However, if TEAM launches a new competing business line outside of the Leadership line in March and they promote that new business at TEAM meetings and I go to those meetings for “Leadership info training” wouldn’t that be solicitation for the next 1.6 years”
I’m sure there will conflicting definitions of what constitutes “solicitation”. Quixtar will define it to benefit themselves and TEAM will define it to suit their purposes.
If that happens, you will may need to choose. If you go to a meetings knowing that is a possibility, then they are not soliciting you personnally.
October 20th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
i forgot,this is not a free blog post!!
you are the boss!!
AM TEAM!
October 21st, 2007 at 12:23 am
Bridgett # 15
Regarding the rule you quote in post 15… further down Quixtar states that BSM materials are not restricted in anyway. Motivational materials and leadership development materials would seem to be exempt from the rule stated below:
“6.5.6. Nothing in this Rule 6.5. restricts the sale or distribution of privately developed Support Materials (”SM”), Business Support Materials (”BSM”), and Product Support Materials (”PSM”) in accordance with Rule 7 and Rule 4.14.”
October 21st, 2007 at 1:01 am
if you were there then you got all the answers you needed. The best part about it, not one negative thought or word. That my friends is what this journey is all about.
Principals and values.
October 21st, 2007 at 1:14 am
“They still have liability for the people and businesses they hurt.”
THEY hurt? Who was the genius that decided to bypass the ENTIRE IBOAI to change the QUIXTAR name back to AMWAY (which is automatic business suicide)? Who was the genius who all of a sudden decided that depth is not allowed (which has been proven to be the fastest way to grow and stabilize your business)? Who was the genius who decided to ignore the whole marketability issue of overpriced products?
So WHO is the one that has ruined lives and businesses?
The answer is… (drum roll please)
QUIXSAND/AMWAY/ALTICOR
They are sinking their own ship!
October 21st, 2007 at 10:58 am
The bottom line, again, is that Woodward and Co want freedom in making as much money as possible in the “put ‘em in faster than they get out” business concept…
This is a business for them…They DO NOT care about you….
Mark my words, there will not be a Walmart of the Internet..just promises for everyone as the come in and pay big bucks for tools and functions…
Do the math…how much money can be made off the system in a LOS…you can only split the profit pie so many ways in this business model..that’s what caused alot of the problems in the Amway/Quixtar organizations..the greed/dividing of the tool/function money…I know, I was there….
October 21st, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Tex (172) Says: Definitely skip over Bridgett and my posts, we wouldn’t want to confuse you with the facts.
I’ll give my opinion when I want, whether you want it or not.
Excellant advice! Would not want to confuse your comments with the actual facts. Because as you state it is your “opinion”.
October 21st, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Thank you Lisa for providing that link.
October 21st, 2007 at 1:17 pm
for those trying to figure out Team. . .
If you were never a part of it, you never will. 1 seminar and a couple opens don’t count either.
October 21st, 2007 at 1:48 pm
I agree with Marc, but I will add that in addition to being the fastest most sustainable approach, depth the only way to build a large community. Even ask the people who teach width, and they will say for a team to get big somebody at some point must decide to focus on depth. The corporation knows this, they see every community, so for them to not support building depth is for them to not support big communities. If Alticor has any north american IBO’s or ABO’s in 5-10 years I’ll be suprised. Personally I think they’d rather sell directly to the consumer in the N. America.
(this is a cleaned up version of my previous post, if you stick up only one, please make it this one, but you put up the other please put up the corrective version too).
October 21st, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Mary Ann #169,
If you read the moderator’s response, you have to say more than “just” a personal attack. It also helps to include some facts with your slam, and you and the others are VERY short on facts. Plus, if you can make them blow some coffee or soda through their nose as they are reviewing your post (which I have apparently done on at least one occasion), it’s even better.
freedom #170,
St. George was a conference in Utah. It was a Don Wilson/Randy Haugen conference. Most out of state people flew to Vegas and drove up the highway to attend. —- Except for Don and Randy, they drove in from the Salt Lake City area, probably in their tool financed motorcoaches. Then talked about them and gave tours, for all to see, but few understood that THEY actaully paid for via the tool scam.
The brochure was actually a very professional piece of literature. 8 1/2″ x 11″ fold out and when you open it up the two pages on the inside had pictures of the leaders like Don, Randy, Chris, Orrin, Chuck and others along with a little bio. It was a mini profiles of success. —- Profiles of the TEAM tool scammers would be far more accurate.
My Platinum told me since Quixtar IBO numbers are the only LOS we have, they can move people wherever they feel is best without worrying about different legs or where you are in the leg. —- Are you saying people can be moved around within the LOS as desired by the upline? Do you realize this is one of the reasons the lying cowardly “kingpins” you mentioned above are GONE? If your Platinum told you this, they are either extremely ignorant or in on the re-stacking rule violations, or both.
As for the fluff???? Well, let’s see. I’ll skip by the $300 (plus tax) top 50 that is always promoted, because everybody could know about that. I’ll skip the first 30 day pack (4 CD’s and 2 DVD’s). The “follow up” CD with Chris and Orrin on stage after an open is actually a good, informative CD (nice of Chris to say Orrin would be the funny one). There is the DVD with Chris showing the plan on the white board along with Tim Marks and the Freeses(sp??) on the DVD is another one. Of course there is the 1st night pack (with CD’s and book), the 2nd night pack and Power Player pack (with CD’s and mini-brochure). —- What are the costs of these various tools?
But anyone could have known that. How about I just pull out my light blue book with the team logo that says, “The Team Builders Textbook, Building Communities in the Information Age.” You know, the “fluff” with a black bar at the bottom with Orrin and Chris’ names in it. The one that starts with Chapter 1: Dreams, Chapter 2: Wealth Thinking and goes through Chapter 12: Conclusion, with a finishing personal story by Doug and Sheri Stroh. —- How much does this “textbook” cost?
Again…..as a person who was a part of the team, I will continue to ask questions until the leaders stop intentionally deceiving people and start answering questions. My upline is following on blind faith, not asking a single question, like this is some cult or something. —- It’s not a cult, it is something. The something is a scam, a tool scam. Those who use the “c” word can easily be dismissed, but those who refer to it as it really is, a scam, will continue to bury these clowns, one shovel of dirt at a time.
There is something to be said for loyalty, but at some point you have to think for yourself. I swear, if my Diamond said drink this cyanide and blame it on Quixtar I believe my Platinum would jump up and beg to be first. —- Many Platinums have already done just that, from a financial perspective.
The team might actually have something great, but to me, at this juncture, the way nobody will answer questions and will dodge every question I ask, I’m not going to jump into the “just wait 6-months THEN WE WILL GIVE YOU INFORMATION” bandwagon. —- They don’t have anything any other tool system doesn’t, except perhaps some additional energy based on the greed of their relatively young “leaders”, but the tool scam is the same as the others. They’re not telling when you ask them because there probably isn’t anything firm.
Jason #173,
If “Just Wondering” hasn’t seen enough about the true lying cowardly actions of the upline, he is true to his name, and unable to do much else.
October 21st, 2007 at 3:52 pm
Skynyrd77 Says:
The bottom line, again, is that Woodward and Co want freedom in making as much money as possible in the “put ‘em in faster than they get out” business concept…
People get in for the great concept and then they get out fast because the products are not reasonably priced to meet a majority of people’s budgets. Many people in my LOS including relatives started for the concept, then comparison priced the products they were already buying and there was such a significant difference they stopped purchasing products. Once they stopped purchasing products, they stopped attending functions and becaume inactive.
A loss for both Quixtar and the supposed “tool scam”
HOWEVER, almost EVERY one of them continued to renew!. Why? Because they believed in the concept.
Quixtar/Amway is the manufacturer of a majority of the products so they have a lot of pricing leeway, Imagine if instead of being greedy the put the prices of the everyday products a little closer in line with a store (not the cheap stores like walmart, but say Ralphs or your local grocery store) Do you really think people would be getting out so fast? Heck no! They would be showing this business to even more people, making more money for both Quixtar and the team “KingPins”
October 21st, 2007 at 4:14 pm
IT’S OVER
Well, the clock on the wall says 4:10 Eatern Time, same as in Louisville, Freedom Hall. I have taken note of most all the bloviating about what was going to happen, what people thought would happen, etc. But I have also heard from a family member who attended the major in Louisville. Thousands, maybe 15-20K learning leadership and other valuable principles. All chose to go and pay their money for it. None were coerced. And no rules were broken, not even by Orrin who evidently hit it out of the park with his presentation. I would have attended, but just returned from a mission trip and could not.
It will be interesting to hear the TRUE feedback from those who attended. Oh, I know, there were some folks there undercover, so to speak, so there may be some erroneous info given about the meeting. I hope not. But if they took enough notes, maybe they learned some valuable information that will increase their own skills which will bless their lives.
What I am going to say comes from my heart as a minister. I have attended these weekend functions before. I have sat in on the Sunday morning services that are held for those who are too far away from their own church but want to worship and make the Lord’s day a meaningful time for themselves and those they came with. This is why I am so disappointed that Q would go to court to stop the attendance of thousands of people to a business function that teaches and upholds the true AMERICAN WAY of free enterprise, free association and free assembly. What were you thinking?
I am resigning this week from Quixtar. I do not want to support a company that exhibits so little respect for our freedom. I cannot associate with a company that will use scare tactics through email, like I received, stating that I may be in legal jeopardy and then after repeated queries by email from me, never give me a definitive answer regarding my concerns. I did not ask to intimidated by the company through email, but when I replied with sincere questions, all I got was silence.
Very few people in this whole saga have been respectful of others on this blog, as a whole. Some have sought to dominate the discussion by blasting others with insults, trashy language, and simply unkind and unChristian attitudes. Shame on you. Others have shown retraint and respect while trying to get their point across. Blessings to you.
I will resist the temptation to launch into a sermon here, throwing out Bible verses right and left, well right and right I should say, but I will employ an admonition that we are all familiar with. I think we can all agree that, whatever attitude you have toward the scripture, this statement would be useful here. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Some of you will take off from this statement as license to lamblast your opposition and accuse them of not following this rule, no matter if you are TEAM or QUIXTAR. But don’t. Just use it as a mirror for yourself. Then it will do the most good. May the peace of God and peace with God be the cornerstones for your life. God Bless You All.
October 21st, 2007 at 4:32 pm
Tex,
I got the same “have faith in your Diamond” from my upline. In fact the phrase was “blind faith”. No thanks! The positive result from this Team/Quixtar situation was that I finally saw the leadership vacuum in my LOS.
October 21st, 2007 at 4:43 pm
rico #174,
JanDoe “ALL of the speakers receive payment for speaking.” What is your source of information for that statement. Do you work for the TEAM accounting office? Wouldn’t it be possible for someone to donate their time to speak? —- This is a well known fact, and even documented in the TEAM CA court documentation. It is possible to donate your time to speak, but you would be regarded as a fool by all the other speakers.
If he speaks, I don’t care one way or another if he receives compensation or not. I just don’t understand how you can know with such certainty that all will receive payment? They might…but how can you personally verify that? —- If you don’t care if they are paid, why did you challenge the statement in the first place? If you still doubt it, why don’t you ask your upline Diamond if they are paid, and how much they are paid for various speaking engagements?
I’m sure there will conflicting definitions of what constitutes “solicitation”. Quixtar will define it to benefit themselves and TEAM will define it to suit their purposes. —- True, and the gnashing of teeth will occur behind the curtain of arbitration, where Orrin will find a considerably less ignorant and sympathetic audience.
If that happens, you will may need to choose. If you go to a meetings knowing that is a possibility, then they are not soliciting you personnally. —- How would you find out about the meeting? If TEAM tells you about it, it is clearly solicitation. If you ask them, they set up the environment for the request (via the illegal pyramid lawsuit and various blogs, some of which may have violated the court order), so this could be considered solitation as well.
TEAM_MEX #175,
What you “forgot” is you have no facts on your side. What is different about this site is they don’t “ban” you (like freetheibo does), they allow different points of view. But they do have their limits on what they will post, and now you know what they are.
rico #176,
You’re confused. Bridgett was commenting on the nature of whether the TEAM could be considered in violation of the rules under the 6 month non-compete rule. In my vastly superior, factually based and extremely humble opinion, the answer is a solid “YES”. In this case, it doesn’t matter if TEAM goes off on their own or tries to provide their scam service to IBO’s, it is a violation either way.
glenn #177,
if you were there then you got all the answers you needed. The best part about it, not one negative thought or word. That my friends is what this journey is all about. —- How about telling us what the question was before you attempt to answer it? It’s not about “positive” versus “negative”, it’s about telling the truth. The upline has tried for decades to hide the tool scam under the cloak of “no negative”, but their little scam that creates MA$$IVE profits has now been exposed.
Principals and values. —- It’s spelled “principles”, Principals are in charge of the Elementary school you went to and didn’t do well in Spelling class. However, I do agree with your intended point, the most important principle with your so called “business partners” and “teammates” is honesty. Without honesty, none of the other principles matters.
October 21st, 2007 at 5:19 pm
marc #178,
“They still have liability for the people and businesses they hurt.” THEY hurt? Who was the genius that decided to bypass the ENTIRE IBOAI to change the QUIXTAR name back to AMWAY (which is automatic business suicide)? —- As I have said many times before, I think this will turn out to be a brilliant change. I don’t know if it was intended to flush out the lying cowardly “kingpins”, but it sure had the desired outcome. In my opinion, this business will not survive if the tool scam mess isn’t cleaned up, which guarantees the tool scam will go away, with or without the Amway business surviving.
Who was the genius who all of a sudden decided that depth is not allowed (which has been proven to be the fastest way to grow and stabilize your business)? —- There is much more to the rule violations than simply building depth. I personally witnessed several of them at the Opens and Seminar I attended. Get a grip.
Who was the genius who decided to ignore the whole marketability issue of overpriced products? —- Haven’t you been keeping track, there have already been several changes made, and there will probably be more to come.
So WHO is the one that has ruined lives and businesses? —- The same ones I said above, the lying cowardly “kingpins”.
The answer is… (drum roll please) —- Why do you need a drum roll for the obvious answer?
QUIXSAND/AMWAY/ALTICOR —- The only connection here is the lack of taking action against the tool scammers decades ago.
They are sinking their own ship! —- A/Q has failed to plug their own ship for a long time, but are doing it now.
Skynyrd77 #179,
Bingo. Tell us your story.
CAL #180,
Way to cobble together my answers to 2 different people. Here’s a challenge for you, can you come up with an even more stupid post? What an idiot.
AEM #181,
Yes Lisa, thanks for providing that obviously left wing liberal link, it shows how desperate the Orrinites are.
AEM #182,
Too late, I already figured it out, and all it took was a few Opens and a seminar.
AEM #183,
Too bad they didn’t put up the one devoid of facts, then we wouldn’t have see either one of them.
duckpond #185,
No doubt the product pricing is an issue for some of the products, but this doesn’t give the lying cowardly “kingpins” the right to continue their tool scam. Lowering prices on the products and keeping the tool scam would be a stupid move.
October 21st, 2007 at 5:46 pm
hey moderator — how come tex can sit on here and insult me and you let him post - yet when anyone says or tells tex to take his hate and anger elsewhere you block the post. I have not insulted or belittled anyone on here, yet you let the likes of tex do it all day long. I would post my thoughts and answers to the almighty tex but you would block them.
Hey tex why don’t you be a man with a chest (see pastor Dickie for the definition)and use your real name, or are you afraid to come out and play ………….
October 21st, 2007 at 5:51 pm
hey Rick from ky, I was there. Yes, Orrin and the rest of the speakers did hit it out of the ballpark.
October 21st, 2007 at 5:55 pm
Tex 189
marc #178,
“They still have liability for the people and businesses they hurt.” THEY hurt? Who was the genius that decided to bypass the ENTIRE IBOAI to change the QUIXTAR name back to AMWAY (which is automatic business suicide)? —- As I have said many times before, I think this will turn out to be a horrible change. I don’t know if it was intended to screw with the honorable people who run system companies, but it sure had that outcome, at least for Team. In my opinion, this business will only survive if the tool companies are allowed to freely do business, which guarantees growth for more and more IBO’s.
Who was the genius who all of a sudden decided that depth is not allowed (which has been proven to be the fastest way to grow and stabilize your business)? —- There is nothing more to the rule violations than building depth, which is a practice approved by Quixtar. I personally never witnessed any of them at the Opens and Seminar I attended.
Who was the genius who decided to ignore the whole marketability issue of overpriced products? —- I’m not sure but they need to get a grip, and fix that problem soon.
So WHO is the one that has ruined lives and businesses? —- The same ones I said above, the lying cowardly owners of Alticor.
The answer is… (drum roll please) —- Why do you need a drum roll for the obvious answer?
QUIXSAND/AMWAY/ALTICOR —- The only connection here is the lack of taking action to fix their product pricing decades ago. But you’re right, they are the ones who blew it.
They are sinking their own ship! —- A/Q has failed to plug their own ship for a long time, and they still aren’t doing it now.
October 21st, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Tex #184
I agree,I was just commenting on how I made the decision. I have been keeping up with the blogs since August and it appears to me that the blogs have been cluttered up and seem to get off topic a lot. I was just trying to keep it simple, and give my opinion of what the issue is all about.
October 21st, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Tex #188:
In regards to payment I can tell you I have personally witnessed speakers being paid (in cash) on multiple occasions after Tuesday team meetings I have attended. Granted, you would probably demand pictures and video before believing anything someone else sees.
I am sure they are all being compensated in some way for their time especially the ones who no longer receive five figure monthly checks from Q.
October 21st, 2007 at 6:22 pm
It is all in the eye of the beholder.
People say, tools are the “tool scam” because the authors make “exhorbitant profits”
When only 3% of IBO’s retail product it isn’t harped on in every blog as a “Consumption Scam”.
With the “J Factor” taking high profits,it isn’t always before us as a “skimming scam.”
When Quixtar does not listen to the advice of the IBOAI that isn’t an “IBO Representation Scam” that pops up in every blog.
When Quixtar gladly ignored all kinds of infractions of the code of conduct because it was putting money in their pockets but then got “holier than thou” over the arbitration and non-competes because it benefits them, it isn’t an “enforcement scam”.
The biggest difference between the TEAM and Quixtar is that the Quixtar and it’s legal pitbulls have the ability to enforce, but they only inspire other enforcers. In fact, through their inept handling of public relations ability have probably turned the TEAM into a cause.
People will follow inspiration any day over enforcement. Tyranny enforces, leadership inspires.
If anything, this blog has convinced me of the lack of leadership in Quixtar. Most of the pro-Quixtar bloggers harp on and on about enforcement but there seems to be a vacuum of inspiring leadership…Marketing and spin…yes mis-directing attention to the “tools scam” yes! Inspiring leadership…No.
Intrepret the TEAM’s actions as you will, challenge the intregity of the leadership and predict their failure…time will tell.
One thing about them, they have the ability to inspire and lead because they deal in hope instead of fear of enforcement.
Maybe that’s why the tools business seems like a scam. Many of the tools contain leadership and inspiration, something that is outside of the reach of most enforcers. They can’t lead. T
Inspiring leadership always makes the enforcers jealous. Independent - Freedom minded people don’t follow enforcers. Enforcers can’t produce inspiring tools. Maybe that’s why they are jealous of those who can.
I know the enforcers will start screaming “it’s about the rules” and highlighting the faults of the “rule breakers”. But enforcers can only drive people(usually away). They don’t know how to lead. In fact they confused into thinking enforcing is leading.
They have to content themselves with correcting spelling, pointing out typos and quoting rules.
October 21st, 2007 at 6:55 pm
First and foremost I would like to say it was another AWESOME TEAM Leadership meeting this weekend in Louisville. Our leaders sure know their history, and I LOVE it. For all those leaders out there all I have to say is “Bring It” :). A huge thanks goes out to all of our leaders and team mates for holding the line to a million people and beyond
Loyaly yours,
Zachary K Lewetag
October 21st, 2007 at 7:34 pm
#176 Rico (the other one)
Since TEAM is no longer a recognized LOA of Quixtar, their leadership products are not considered BSMs, so the 6.5.6 Rule does not apply.
October 21st, 2007 at 7:58 pm
bravo rico …… I see you were there also.
October 21st, 2007 at 8:00 pm
#195 rico (the other one) et al
If I teach self-consumption as the only way to move product, then I would need many more IBOs to make up Platinumships, Emeraldships, Diamondships than if I taught self-consumption AND retailing.
And if I promote a low self-consumption circle, say 50 PV, then I’d need more self-consumption IBOs, than if I promoted 100 PV circles.
So, if I promote 50 PV self-consumption circles, I’d need 150 IBOs for a Platinumship.
If I promoted retailing, and helped a new IBO make $500/month in retailing,
then I’d only need 12.5 IBOs to make up a Platinumship
(to make $500 retailing, that’s about 600 PV—retail differential plus bonus check. 600 PV x 12.5 = 7,500 PV = Platinum in the U.S. and Canada).
So I’d then have 12.5 IBOs “on System” instead of 150.
40 TIMES THE NUMBER OF IBOS = 40 TIMES THE $$ OF TOOL MONEY.
If I made the majority of my money based on the number BODIES (on System—CDs, functions, etc.) rather than the amount of PRODUCT VOLUME,
then it would be in my best interest not to promote retail and even go far and say IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.
And, since I’m promoting low 50 PV circles, then most likely, I’m building TEAMs of people where PRICE over quality is the number one factor in their buying decisions.
Because, if I actually talked to people, like myself who shop at Whole Paycheck—I mean Whole Foods, then doing 100 and even 200 PV would be a piece of cake.
And retailing would be a piece of cake since I’d be talking to people who value things like quality and customer service.
But, the idea is to have LOTS of IBOs with tiny First Circles.
Unprofitable First Circles for them, and very profitable in QUANTITY for me, the Pusher of the System.
The System: My #1 Product Line.
October 21st, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Tex and others,
How can anyone honestly say Quixtar is honestly addressing the tools scam. WWDB is not accredited on the Quixtar accreditation site. They just had another FED this month; ripped off thousands of downline again. They are still fleecing their downline with CDS, Kate, Premier membership, etc. And yes, they are still telling new recruits they can “expect” $57,000 in their first year in the business “ofcourse only if you use the proven system called CORE which is actually the source of the bulk of WWDB diamond income. I think TEAM was an easy target for Quixtar to pretend they are addressing the tools issue. It appears that Duncan of WWDB is part owner of XS energy distribution. So what does Quixtar do? The let WWDB keep fleecing because they don’t want to lose the XS contract. Who wins? WWDB & Quixtar. Who loses - thousands of downline who are still systematically defrauded. The kingpins and Quixtar continue to hurt people. I know this first hand and personally.
October 21st, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Well Guys and Gals
We just got back from the TEAM leadership convention.
And you Amway folks have nothing to be worried about
It was just 40 thousand fired up dedicated, hopeful, enthusiastic, committed determined people there to learn Leadership Principles, and people skills.
You Know trying to become better more influential people.
Nothing to worry about business wise.
Toodles
October 21st, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Correction to my last post:
40 TIMES THE NUMBER OF IBOS = 40 TIMES THE $$ OF TOOL MONEY.
Should read:
12 TIMES THE NUMBER OF IBOS = 12 TIMES THE $$ OF TOOL MONEY.
My bad.
October 21st, 2007 at 9:53 pm
Rick in Kentucky #186,
Bub-bye. Good luck with the lying cowardly TEAM “kingpins”.
Canadian IBO 2 #187,
Thanks, I was wondering what that sucking sound was….
glenn #190/1,
hey moderator — how come tex can sit on here and insult me and you let him post - yet when anyone says or tells tex to take his hate and anger elsewhere you block the post. I have not insulted or belittled anyone on here, yet you let the likes of tex do it all day long. I would post my thoughts and answers to the almighty tex but you would block them. —- Because I don’t attack anyone, I counter-attack, with gusto and facts. You can’t, because you have neither.
Hey tex why don’t you be a man with a chest (see pastor Dickie for the definition)and use your real name, or are you afraid to come out and play. —- glenn, why don’t you use your own name, complete with address, phone number, and Social Security number? How would knowing my name change the tool scam facts?
I’m glad Orrin got all the Orrinites “fired up”, because the next several weeks and months are going to be pretty grueling for him. In the old days, you could come back home all “fired up” to show the plan, now all you have to come home to is your trip expenses. Don’t be surprised if the arbitrator decides to extend the non-compete way past the usual 6 month time period, based on the damage the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit caused.
Techs #192,
A/Q has failed to plug their own ship for a long time, and they still aren’t doing it now. —- Sure they have, they stuffed Orrin in one of the holes.
Shaun #194,
I don’t need pictures of the speakers getting paid, I have already seen plenty of evidence of this fact.
I’m sure they are being compensated as well, but they no longer are making nearly as much, as the Opens have disappeared after they figured out what TEAM really stood for, the tool scam, many IBO’s have disappeared, and many tools are no longer being sold.
rico #195,
It is all in the eye of the beholder. People say, tools are the “tool scam” because the authors make “exhorbitant profits” —- No, it’s because the lying cowardly “kingpins” claim us as their “teammates” and “business partners”, then lying about the MA$$IVE tool profit level and are too cowardly to admit this fact.
When only 3% of IBO’s retail product it isn’t harped on in every blog as a “Consumption Scam”. —- This is a responsibility of the upline, to teach IBO’s to follow the rules, and enable them to comply with the requirements, which they obviously did not do.
With the “J Factor” taking high profits,it isn’t always before us as a “skimming scam.” —- Compare the “J Factor” with the markup of products that used to be shown in the TEAM marketing plan.
When Quixtar does not listen to the advice of the IBOAI that isn’t an “IBO Representation Scam” that pops up in every blog. —- Perhaps Quixtar has finally figured out the IBOAI is much more interested in their tool scam than actually representing the IBO’s.
When Quixtar gladly ignored all kinds of infractions of the code of conduct because it was putting money in their pockets but then got “holier than thou” over the arbitration and non-competes because it benefits them, it isn’t an “enforcement scam”. —- I agree the tool scam should have been shut down decades ago, but that doesn’t mean you don’t take action now. The arbitration and non-compete are enforcing existing rules.
The biggest difference between the TEAM and Quixtar is that the Quixtar and it’s legal pitbulls have the ability to enforce, but they only inspire other enforcers. In fact, through their inept handling of public relations ability have probably turned the TEAM into a cause. —- Quixtar has the ability to enforce, because they have the contract with the IBO’s, and they have the rules to follow. You Orrinites don’t appear to understand there are differences based on important business principles, such as contracts and rules. All you do is run around “fired up”, as if there were not contract to follow, or rules to follow. TEAM isn’t an “enforcer”, they are a bunch of tool scammers. TEAM was a “cause” long before August 9th. Only after Orrin and Co. refused to follow the rules (after several years of “do overs”) and filed the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit did Quixtar unleash their PR campaign against these tool scammers.
People will follow inspiration any day over enforcement. Tyranny enforces, leadership inspires. —- People will follow truth rather than lies. Lies create enemies, truth creates trust. Many evil rulers have inspired their followers throughout history.
If anything, this blog has convinced me of the lack of leadership in Quixtar. Most of the pro-Quixtar bloggers harp on and on about enforcement but there seems to be a vacuum of inspiring leadership…Marketing and spin…yes mis-directing attention to the “tools scam” yes! Inspiring leadership…No. —- You wouldn’t know real leadership if it was staring you in the face, if you think Orrin it. We have to clean up the tool scam mess prior to “inspiring” anyone. First things first. Cleaning up the tool scam will go a long way to inspiring IBO’s.
Intrepret the TEAM’s actions as you will, challenge the intregity of the leadership and predict their failure…time will tell. —- No interpretation necessary, they already showed their lack of class, integrity, and leadership.
One thing about them, they have the ability to inspire and lead because they deal in hope instead of fear of enforcement. —- Orrin and Co. deals in the hope of the tool scam, nothing more.
Maybe that’s why the tools business seems like a scam. Many of the tools contain leadership and inspiration, something that is outside of the reach of most enforcers. They can’t lead. —- Maybe the tool business seems like a scam, because IT IS a scam. There are recordings of Rich and Jay making inspirational leadership speeches before Orrin was born.
Inspiring leadership always makes the enforcers jealous. Independent - Freedom minded people don’t follow enforcers. Enforcers can’t produce inspiring tools. Maybe that’s why they are jealous of those who can. —- There’s no jealousy of tool scammers, except by other tool scammers.
I know the enforcers will start screaming “it’s about the rules” and highlighting the faults of the “rule breakers”. But enforcers can only drive people(usually away). They don’t know how to lead. In fact they confused into thinking enforcing is leading. —- There’s no confusion, enforcing is thumping the rule breakers and has to do with taking leadership away from those who have earned their punishment.
They have to content themselves with correcting spelling, pointing out typos and quoting rules. —- Want some cheese with that whine?
October 21st, 2007 at 10:19 pm
Tell me where in this ( or in the Rules of Conduct ) that it states anyone HAS to go into arbitration ? Is that not for when you cannot reconcile a dispute ? And you are seeking recourse for something or someway you think you’ve been wronged ? Does anyone think that Orrin, at this point, is interested in reconciling with the company ?
If you ( that’s the IBO ) chooses to walk off, and not follow up on YOUR right to arbitrate, where does it say that the corp can drag you into court…as Tex keeps telling us Q will do to Woodard et al ?
Especially as they have been terminated ?
Not trying to be sarcastic here…genuinely would like documented proof… page and item number for where it can be found.
My son tells me that arbitration is used by individuals when they think they have been treated unfairly but it’s not used by corporations when they think THEY have. It’s used primarily because it’s cheaper ( or to keep trade secrets out of the public eye ).
That’s why the little guy often has to use it to get satisfaction..because the big guy can go to court but Joe “Q” Public cannot usually afford it. Hope we didn’t spend all that money on his MBA for nothing
AGREEMENT TO ARBITRATE - I agree that I will give notice in writing of any claim or dispute arising out of or relating to my Independent Business, the Quixtar IBO
Compensation Plan, or the IBO Rules of Conduct, to the other party or parties involved in the dispute, specifying the basis for my claim and the amount claimed or relief
sought. I will then try in good faith to resolve the dispute using the Dispute Resolution Procedures contained in the IBO Rules of Conduct, including the conciliation
process.
If the claim or dispute is not resolved to my satisfaction within 90 days, or after the conciliation process is complete, whichever is later, I agree to submit any remaining
claim or dispute arising out of or relating to my Independent Business, the Quixtar IBO Compensation Plan, or the IBO Rules of Conduct (including any claim against another
IBO, or any such IBO’s officers, directors, agents, or employees; or against Quixtar Inc., Quixtar Canada Corporation, and any parent, subsidiary, affiliate, predecessor or
successor thereof, or any of their officers, directors, agents, or employees) to binding arbitration in accordance with the Arbitration Rules, which are set forth in the IBO
Rules of Conduct. The arbitration award shall be final and binding and judgment thereon may be entered by any court of competent jurisdiction. Demand for arbitration shall
be made within 2 years after the issue has arisen, but in no event after the date when the initiation of legal proceedings would have been barred by the applicable statute of
limitations. I acknowledge that this Agreement evidences a transaction involving interstate or interprovincial commerce, as the case may be, in the United States or Canada.
The United States Arbitration Act shall govern the interpretation, enforcement, and proceedings in any state or federal court of the United States. The Ontario Arbitrations
Act (1991) or any Canadian arbitration statute that may supersede it, shall govern the interpretation, enforcement, and proceedings in any federal or provincial court in
Canada. The parties intend for the Arbitration Rules to apply to the maximum degree possible in any arbitration.
If I become involved in a claim or dispute submitted under the Dispute Resolution Procedures or the Arbitration Rules, I agree not to disclose to any other person not directly
involved in the conciliation or arbitration process: (a) the substance of, or basis for, any claim; (b) the content of any testimony or other evidence presented during the
conciliation and arbitration process or obtained through discovery; or (c) the terms or amount of any conciliation or arbitration award.
October 21st, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Tex #184
If you were a part of Team, why are you asking the price of the tools ?
Any Team member knows those prices. Even members of my team who are not on system know them, as many have bought isolated pieces here and there.
October 21st, 2007 at 11:05 pm
The reason that people get upset with Team is because they do not understand what we represent. The simple fact is that you don’t know what you don’t know. We at Team are not mindless puppets who follow people because we are brain washed. We are taught not only to read books but also to study them. One book a month is great but two or three is better. We are taught not to be sheep but to be free thinkers and LEADERS! The reason people stay with Team is simple. We are smart enough recognize Integrity, Honesty and Having a Servant attitude when we see it.
Recently, for school, I read a book that was once promoted by Amway. It is called “Who Moved My Cheese” It a great little story about four characters and how they deal with adversity. It’s only about an hour read so you should read and learn something.
Having the proper information in life is important
BE CAREFUL
Be careful of your thoughts
For your thoughts become your words.
Be careful of your words
For your words become your actions.
Be careful of your actions
For your actions become your habits.
Be careful of your habits
For your habits become your character.
Be careful of your character
For your character becomes your destiny.
-Author unknown
October 21st, 2007 at 11:58 pm
Just wondering how all the Amway plants enjoyed the Team leadership convention this weekend? Learn anything?
October 22nd, 2007 at 1:16 am
HAHAHAHA
FOR THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND
We do know alot about history don’t we!!
October 22nd, 2007 at 1:49 am
TEAM is great and Louisville was a success… Packed with leadership principles and GREAT history lessons…. total class and all character….
October 22nd, 2007 at 9:47 am
Paying people for their time?!?!?? It’s a SCAM I TELL YOU!!!
(Insert total sarcasm here)
It’s a SCAM when anyone makes a PROFIT on ANYTHING! It’s a CAPITALIST SCAM!!! How dare anyone attempt to earn a profit without me getting a piece of it! It’s just not FAIR for other people to be more successful than me when I worked just as hard as they did!
What?!? You think I’m wrong? I can’t be wrong because I have not given any actual facts that can be disputed! Everything I say is just my opinion, so you can’t prove anything!!! And when I do make statements that are proven to be non-factual, I will simply yell more about SCAMs and point out that you are a fool because you can’t edit your own post after hitting te “Submit Comment” button!!!
Oh, and if you speak broken english; of course you can’t be taken seriously; unless you are on my side!
What? You think I am a paid blogger?! I’m not sharp enough to keep one active leg, and you think I’m sharp enough to get paid for this?!?
What? You think I should go to the next major convention and learn more about leadership? I know everything about leadership! My dog follows me! And when he doesn’t he gets whipped! Anyway, I’m grounded and can’t afford it because of the tool SCAM!
(End sarcasm)
I’m not sure why people spend so much effort supporting oppression when they claim to support freedom. Yes, I am poking fun at my friend Tex here… but only to make a point. You can’t blame everything on the “tool SCAM”… yes, there are organizations that hide things from others, but you have to see the big picture sometimes, and if you have never reached a position of true leadership, perhaps you aren’t qualified yet. Go out and be productive, rather than being a “crab in a bucket”.
October 22nd, 2007 at 10:44 am
If I tell you I can show how to live a lavish lifestyle (show you my mansion, multiple cars,etc) by building an Amquix business - but 80% of my lavish lifestyle is purchased not by Amquix, but by the CDs I sell you on how to build the Amquix buwiness - then I have lied to you and I am a fraud. Now if I am honest & tell you that you can build a lavish lifestyle by building a 20% Amquix business and 80% Motivational business that is completely separate from Amquix, then it is ok to make profit because I have not lied. WWDB, Yager % Britt are the best liars in the world. It is something they have mastered. Amquix, if you care about the 99% ofyour IBOs who are trying to build their business and who have not voted no confidence in you, then take your losses and put a stop to the colossial fraud being perpetrated on the thousands of downline. I honestly believe that Amquix is literally afraid of Yager, Puryear and Britt. Afraid of the mind control these guys exercise over their downline. It is the exact same as the mind control Woodward has over all the IBOs in his downline. I have witnessed WWDBs ability to literally get people to deify them. As they teach silliness like, 99% loyalty is 100% disloyalty. In other words, don’t ever even dare to question your upline diamond. He knows best - even if he doesn’t pay his bills and has his house (the one he brags about in profiles of success) foreclosed on. Too many people are being hurt.
October 22nd, 2007 at 11:42 am
Tex,
With all the poison that comes out of your writing against men and women that you have never heard or at least listen to. please don’t touch your pen to an open wound it may eat you up inside. (unless it is to late) then your best bet is to pump your system full of positive morality and reach out and do something good for you neighbor. To bad you didn’t make it down to Kentucky. the information was life changing.
October 22nd, 2007 at 12:11 pm
I read on another site that if an Amway ABO attends a TEAM function that is grounds for immediate termination of their business.
I also seam to remember Amway sending me an email saying something like that.
I didn’t pay any attention to it because I had already Resigned.
Perhaps I should have saved it.
Does anybody have a copy of that email?
Is this correct that attending TEAM function is grounds for termination?
Any way.
If true, we should be understanding of the Amway ABO’s that want to keep quiet about being there.
This brings up an interesting point in my mind.
I have seen figures like there have been 16 thousand resignations since August 9th.
I saw this figure on a couple of blogs.
Can this be correct?
It looked to me like there were 25 to 35 thousand people at the TEAM event.
Were over half of them still current Amway ABO’s?
Or have there really been a lot more resignations than 16 thousand?
Disclaimer: The above opinions and Ideas are my own and do not reflect the opinions of TEAM or any others. I have no official connection to TEAM other than subscribing to their Leadership Development training system. I am not an agent of any organization and have not been paid to post these opinions.
October 22nd, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Tex: My reading comprehension is fine. On the other hand, perhaps you should consider getting a life as evidenced by the pile of comments you have been making.
October 22nd, 2007 at 12:25 pm
INTERESTING, I ARRIVE BACK FROM KENTUCKY….OPEN MY MAILBOX TO FIND AN ACHIEVE MAGAZINE FROM QUIXTAR IN THERE!! (IS THERE ANY WAY TO GET THESE PEOPLE TO STOP SENDING ME THEIR STUFF??)….ALTHOUGH IT DID PROVE FOR SOME INTERESTING FACTS (TEX, FOR CLARIFICATION THAT WOULD BE NUMBERS PROVIDED DIRECTLY FROM QUIXTAR AND NOT MY OWN OPINION)……HERE ARE THE FACTS……EXACTLY 5, COUNT IT 5 NEW PLATINUMS LISTED IN THIS MAGAZINE!!! AT FIRST I THOUGHT FOR SURE THERE WAS A MISTAKE AND I KEPT FLIPPING THROUGH THE PAGES TO FIND THE REST!!….THEN I DECIDED TO GET OUT THE COPY FROM THE MONTH THAT WE WENT PLATINUM (PRE TEAM EXIT) BECAUSE I REMEMBER IT BEING A FEW MORE THAN 5, SO I COUNTED, AND TO BE EXACT THE NUMBER WAS 189!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW I’VE NEVER CLAIMED TO BE A GENIUS BUT???????
October 22nd, 2007 at 12:31 pm
OH YAH, HERE IS ANOTHER INTERESTING FACTUAL STATISTIC…..SEATING CAPACITY FOR FREEDOM HALL KENTUCKY EXPO CENTER 19,169, AND THE FIRE MARSHALL AT THE DOOR REFUSING ENTRANCE TO THE REST OF THE CROWD FIRST THING SATURDAY MORNING SO AN OVERFLOW ARENA SET UP NEXT DOOR AT BROADBENT ARENA WITH SEATING CAPACITY OF 6,600 NEARLY PACKED OUT ALSO!!!!! CAN’T WAIT UNTIL FEBRUARY IN ST. LOUIS…..TEX, NO NEED TO COMMENT PLEASE JUST SIT BACK IN YOUR CUBICLE AND WAIT FOR THE NUMBERS IN FEBRUARY TO SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES!!!
October 22nd, 2007 at 12:38 pm
tex 203
Techs #192,
A/Q has failed to plug their own ship for a long time, and they still aren’t doing it now. —- Sure they have, they stuffed the extra profit from the J-scam, I mean J factor in one of the holes.
October 22nd, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Zachary #196,
Your leaders sure know their interpretation of their history, and I wouldn’t LOVE it, because they are known lying cowards who have broken numerous rules for years.
Bridgett #197,
Furthermore, I would assume the people behind TEAM would be considered persona non grata by Quixtar if they tried to approach ANY existing IBO’s with their tools.
Bridgett #199,
Why NOT Teach Retailing & Why Prospect People Where Price is THE Number One Factor in Their Buying Decisions Regardless of ANY Other Factor? —- Easy, it takes away the entire basis of the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit. Please don’t confuse these people with the facts, they are not interested.
John #200,
I have stated many times there is much more work to do, TEAM was only a small and recent example of the tool scam.
Quixtar has never stated they shut down TEAM because of the tool scam, but they were an easy target because they had been breaking many of the rules for years, and the lawsuits provided many documents and statements from the Orrinites that shed additional light on the tool scam. The tool scam has apparently been shut down in the UK, and I expect the U.S. market must follow suit, as it is far too easy to communicate around the world since the internet has come along.
If XS has to go away with the WWDB tool scam, so be it. It is better to cut off the tip of a gangrene finger than allow the infection to spread throughout your entire body and die. Let’s keep in mind who is the dog and who is the tail, and not allow the tail to wag the dog.
bill #201,
Don’t worry, I’m not concerned.
dannie #204,
There is an informal process, but if an agreement cannot be done, you go to arbitration. The question isn’t whether Orrin is interested in anything, the company is now going after HIM for the damage he did.
You can walk away, Orrin can’t.
Orrin was terminated, but he still has to follow the 6 month and 2 year rules. You can’t just break enough rules to be terminated and expect the waiting periods don’t apply.
It can be by both sides, for the reasons you mentioned. The cheaper part protects the individual, the confidential nature protects the company. Who is your son?
Just because he’s wrong once doesn’t mean he is wrong every time, but if a pattern of being wrong develops, you did waste your money on his MBA.
dannie #205,
I didn’t look for the prices on the various contacting and follow up materials, which are no longer available. Plus, I never said I was part of TEAM, only that I had access to information on their web site.
Mike in Virginia #206,
The reason that people get upset with Team is because they do understand what you represent. The simple fact is that you don’t know what we know. You at Team are mindless puppets who follow people because you are brain washed. You are taught not only to read books but also to study them. One book a month is great but two or three is better, but how do you have the time to read AND study 2-3 books/month (in other words, the BS alarm is pegged high)? You are taught to be sheep but not to be free thinkers and LEADERS! The reason people stay with Team is simple. You are dumb enough to not recognize Integrity, Honesty and Having a Servant attitude when you see it.
I read a book that was once promoted by my upline. It is called “Who Moved My Cheese” It a great little story about four characters and how they deal with adversity. It’s only about an hour read so you should read and learn something.
Having the proper information in life is important
BE CAREFUL
Be careful of your thoughts
For your thoughts become your words.
Be careful of your words
For your words become your actions.
Be careful of your actions
For your actions become your habits.
Be careful of your habits
For your habits become your character.
Be careful of your character
For your character becomes your destiny.
Be care of who you do business with
For they are probably tool scammers.
-Author unknown (except the last part, that’s Tex)
just_the_facts #207,
We learned a lot. A few of us got “caught”, but we had plenty in reserve.
October 22nd, 2007 at 2:03 pm
you can’t stop meeting, it is the right of all americans to assemble, we can worship a Golden Donkey statue if we like
October 22nd, 2007 at 2:05 pm
#213 Bill….
Just a clarification AMWAY has made it known there is no grounds for termination, because it is raining or because it is sunny is the same as because I went to a TEAM Function.
October 22nd, 2007 at 2:08 pm
fuddman #208,
You may know a lot, but is it accurate?
amazed (In Tex costume) #210,
I’m not your friend, even if you are wearing my costume.
I’m not sure why people spend so much effort supporting a tool scam when they claim to support freedom. Yes, I am poking fun at “amazed” here… but only to make a point. You can’t blame everything on the “tool SCAM”… but it is the single largest issue related to the A/Q business. Yes, there are organizations that hide things from others (which means all of them), but you have to see the big picture sometimes (how can you see the big picture when it is hidden?), and if you have never reached a position of true leadership, perhaps you aren’t qualified yet (or perhaps this is your lame excuse for lying). Go out and be productive, rather than being a “tool scammer”.
John #211,
I agree with your main points, where I differ is what A/Q is “afraid of”. They are concerned if they move too quickly, they will lose too much volume. This was a bigger issue decades ago, when the “kingpins” had more control, the business is much more international in nature now. Still, didn’t take the initiative, the UK DTI did, but the tool scam is still being addressed by A/Q, although in a reactionary mode than proactive one. They don’t have much time to get their hands around this issue and fix it, and TEAM was another catalyst that made this timeline even shorter. Weeks and months perhaps, not years. My advice is to hang in there, and keep pressing for change.
jack #212,
With all the poison that comes out of your writing against men and women that you have ignored the facts or at least listened to the truth. Please don’t touch your pen to an open wound it may eat you up inside (unless it is too late). Then your best bet is to pump your system full of facts and reach out and do something good for you neighbor. Too bad you made it down to Kentucky. The information was life changing, especially to your now empty wallet. But Orrin and his legal TEAM appreciates your “contribution”.
bill #213,
Why don’t you try to find that e-mail and post it here, rather than speculating?
I’m sure there were Orrinites who haven’t decided if they want to remain IBO’s or follow Orrin, and some probably went to KY to help them make a decision. There were probably others who were acting as spies for Quixtar.
There have been some from other LOS’s who supposedly quit over the e-mails from Q they misinterpreted.
MGA #214,
Perhaps you should mind your own business.
rnffemt #215/6,
And I never accused you of being a genius. Sometimes it is best to take a step backwards prior to moving forward.
What make you think Q isn’t going to get the February event shut down?
October 22nd, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Tex,
If you ever want to understand you’ll have to put your point of view aside. It’s not that you’re stupid, you’re very smart, but what you know is wrong. So if you’re happy with your incorrect information, great. If you want to actually understand what is going on put your point of view on hold and listen to what the people who do know are saying.
October 22nd, 2007 at 2:44 pm
Blog Admin
I was wondering why all of the long posts are pro Amway and all of the short ones are not? Have you changed your “message” on posts being on topic and concise? I am starting to wonder about your motives (other than the obvious).
Also, will you update your meta tags and keywords so the search engines can find this more readily? It would really help your case, right?
October 22nd, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Hey eveyone, since I started NOT reading any posts from Tex, this sight isn’t that bad to read. Thank you for your posts, I suggest YOU all NOT read what Tex’s OPIONION’S are cause it is mostly CRAP!!!!!
October 22nd, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Allen #219,
There are restrictions on assembly, you often have to get a permit to protest, etc. It’s not a complete “free for all”. There are also contractual requirements involved. The arbitration process will sort it out.
Chris #220,
You must have missed the termination letters and descriptions of what I saw and heard at Opens and a Semianar that are clear violations.
AEM #222,
If you ever want to understand you’ll have to put your point of view aside. It’s not that you’re smart, you’re very stupid, and what you know is wrong. So if you’re happy with your incorrect information, great. If you want to actually understand what is going on put your point of view on hold and listen to what the people who do know are saying.
Wondering #223,
If you got it the first time, we wouldn’t have to come up with new and longer ways to try to explain it to you. Start reading for comprehesion, and stop “Wondering”.
Thanks for the “advice” on updating meta tags and keywords so the search engines can find this more readily. I think they have a handle on how they want to run their own site and whether it would help their case, thank you very much.
October 22nd, 2007 at 5:07 pm
hey admin,
again with more tex insults and anger. I would think that by now you would address him. He doesn’t bode well for your company. He is exactly the kind of person that would not do well in TEAM, he is all about himself and misplaced anger.
Well tex, you still weren’t man enough to use your real name, you have assaulted and insulted many more, but you are just a coward with bad info. I think you need anger management and some professional help.
Tool scam — there is no scam. It’s my choice to invest in myself and my attitude. I would recommend that you try it also. Maybe you will see your anger and misguided ways. Life is way to short to be as pissed off as you are, get over it and move forward in your life.
As for me listing all the info that you requested, Grow up, I use my real name — admin knows how to reach me — I may need spelling leasons as you put it earlier but I am not stupid enough to put forth the info that you requested. I am at least working on my shortfalls, are you?
October 22nd, 2007 at 5:17 pm
somebody know about a/q selling cd’s on the buena park pick up center???
i saw a pallet of internet cd’s !!
free blog post right???
LET’S SEE
October 22nd, 2007 at 5:23 pm
AMWAY tool’s.
sorry for all the sistem’s out there,QUIXTAR IT’S THE OWNER,,,,,,BE FREE TO BE IN TEAM!!
October 22nd, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Tex #218
So tell me where ( I ask again for the documentation ) it says that Q can FORCE anyone into arbitration ?
The agreement that I signed doesn’t state that Q has the right to force me into anything..only that if I have a dispute that I want settled with THEM, then they have tied me up where my only recourse is to go to arbitration. I’m not saying that they don’t have fine print somewhere….just asking someone to point out WHERE that bit of info would be ?
If I chose to not pursue that dispute, then where ( again ) does it say that they can MAKE me arbitrate if I do not want to go forward and settle anything ?
If they want restitution from Orrin for damages, that would appear to fall into the area of a court case…NOT arbitration.
Again, not to be redundant or argmentative, but not just your opinion, please Tex. Documented facts would be great. If there are attorneys reading this ( not you guys…the ones who are on Q’s payroll ), could you weigh in with a legal defintion of this process or some precedents ?
October 22nd, 2007 at 5:41 pm
one more thing tex, you have obviously forgotten the things you have said about me and to me, your “counter attacks with gusto” are not informative or accurate. They are not worth debating you over. I will however defend your right of free speach and assembly(doubt you ever go anywhere) but your “free speach rights” stop when your insults and personnal attacks begin. You are so misinformed. You look and sound foolish. You may have some sort of smarts but you obviously are not choosing to use them at this time. Please go apply your expert opinions to someone elses cause. Your “tool scam” argument is beyound weak. Your right to stay misinformed is just that, your right. Your baseless facts (you talk it) have never been supported by anything other than your mouth. I challenge you to show me the truth, share your vast knowledge with us, be a true mentor and show me the facts, not just empty words.
If you can not prove your case with facts then please just go play someplace else. If however you have verifiable facts then please present them in a rational manner. That meqans no insults or belittleing remarks. Are you up to the challenge?
October 22nd, 2007 at 5:46 pm
It seems to me this blog no matter what the topic turns into “tool scam.” Now we all have are hard earned money rihgt, right. Ok why does it matter to any one if we spend are hard earned money on what ever we want. I think there are other SCAMS out there that the ppl in here should fight against rather than a “scam” that teaches what are country was founded on and wants to change our culture for the better. It’s are money and i choose to spend it on whatever I want. Mabey ppl in here worried about us spending our money on things should contact gas comp. or Phill Morris or bud light. Right isn’t that a scam by thier definition. At least there isn’t a something in the cd’s that MAKES us come back for more like other things it is our choose to spend are money on what we want sounds like these ppl are from a company like oh wait n/m =)
October 22nd, 2007 at 6:22 pm
#140 About where does it say that you should take the gloves off in the bible? Read about Jesus cleaning out his temple. Gloves were taken off there!!!
October 22nd, 2007 at 6:33 pm
SAK #224,
Hey eveyone, since I started NOT reading any posts from Tex, this sight isn’t that bad to read. Thank you for your posts, I suggest YOU all NOT read what Tex’s OPIONION’S are cause it is mostly CRAP!!!!! —- How would you know, you’re not reading them? You Orrinites want to put your fingers in your ears and repeat “leadership”, “integrity”, “inspirational”, etc., over and over every time the facts show up. Also, I think you meant “because” instead of “cause”. And by the way, it’s spelled “opinions”. You both misspelled it and shouldn’t have used the possessive form of the word, the plural is what you meant to say. Interesting how you spell fact as well, c…r…a…p. Very creative.
October 22nd, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Tex,
If you ever want to understand you’ll have to put your point of view aside. It’s not that you’re stupid, you’re very smart, but what you know is wrong. So if you’re happy with your incorrect information, great. If you want to actually understand what is going on put your point of view on hold and listen to what the people who do know are saying.
October 22nd, 2007 at 6:54 pm
hey Tex,
About your “how do you read one book a month and still have time to study 2-3 books a month comment” how do you not have the time to do that? yeah I lose sleep and I don’t play golf as much, but there is always time, Especially once the TV was gone…try it, you might learn something… Oh and I work 60-80 hours a weeks so hey, mindless, nope just know what is important… i can do that, or i can keep working 60-80 hours a week for the rest of my life… and Brotha, I’m not a sheep, i’m a sheep dog keeping wolves like you out!
October 22nd, 2007 at 6:57 pm
Glenn #226,
I respectfully disagree with you. There is a tools scam and it is huge. One weekend event by TEAM this last weekend was expected to bring in $3 million. This is public knowledge given by TEAM. Now, the same thing occurs over and over through organizations like BWW, WWDB, etc through FED, Spring Leadership, Dream Night, Family Reunion. In other words, these guys make more in a couple of weekends by fleecing their downline than they do in the whole year from Quixtar. Add the CDs, Kate, websites, etc. Now here is the problem: They are supposedly teaching you to attain an income from Quixtar that will support the kind of lavish lifestyle they live. That is a lie. The absolute vast majority of their lavish lifestyle is not supported by Quixtar, but by their movitation businesses. Tex is absolutely right that the biggest scam is the tools businesses. The second biggest scam is Quixtar’s tacid endorsement by not putting a stop to it. They are hurting college kids, single moms and struggling families. They are hurting people who choose to trust them and believe that by being CORE, they can expect to be making $57,000 in their first year. With the now public pathetic attrition rates, there is not a single new IBO who can “expect” to make $57,000 in their first year. This is a bold face lie.
October 22nd, 2007 at 7:02 pm
glenn #226,
Mind your own business. You have lost all the factual arguments, now you have to appeal to “mommy admin”? What a joke.
Thanks for the compliment, I am definitely a person who would not do well with TEAM, I’m not a liar and a coward. I’ll add that to my “Amway resume”. I am all about the truth and righteous indignation.
Gosh “glenn”, how do we know you use your real name? You really pin yourself down with just your first name, “glenn”. Is “glenn” your first or last name? Why don’t you capitalize it, don’t know how to? I’m neither a coward nor have bad info, that’s why you’re so upset, because I write the truth. I think you need anger management and some professional help.
Tool scam — there is a scam. It’s your choice to invest in your upline’s scam and deplete your bank account. I did try it, it didn’t work, and I have LOTS of company. Maybe you will see my anger is really righteous indignation. Life is way to short to be as ripped off as most IBO’s are, let’s put the scammers out of business and get on with our Amway businesses.
As for me listing all the info that you requested, Grow up, I use my real name — admin knows how to reach me —— In other words, do as I say, not as I do?
You MAY need spelling leasons as I put it earlier but you are not stupid enough to put forth the info that I requested? —- You definitely need spelling lessons, don’t you read your books? See above on the stupid part. You’re not only stupid, you’re a windbag. You are at least working on your shortfalls? —- I’m working on your shortfalls, too. But you need more than just my help. I suggest a brain implant.
w H a T #227,
somebody know about a/q selling cd’s on the buena park pick up center??? —- They have them at all the Service Centers.
i saw a pallet of internet cd’s !! —- What’s an “internet cd”?
free blog post right??? —- Now you’re making even less sense.
LET’S SEE —- Hopefully you will, some day.
dannie #229,
They can’t “force” anyone into arbitration, they’ll just hold the arbitration procedure without Orrin. Just like the courts can try someone in abstentia. But don’t expect to win by not showing up.
You missed the point, Q has an issue they want to settle with Orrin and Co., the damage done by the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit.
If they want restitution from Orrin for damages, that would appear to fall into the area of a court case…NOT arbitration. —- We’ll see, won’t we?
This whole “Orrin and the Orrinites” story is going into the deep, dark, bowels of arbitration, and if/when he reappears, he’ll be lucky if he still has his butt.
You expect an lawyer to answer you on this blog? That’s funny. Free legal advice, that’s almost as funny as expecting speakers not to get at various functions, isn’t it?
October 22nd, 2007 at 7:03 pm
# 203 Tex says “People will follow truth rather than lies. Lies create enemies, truth creates trust. Many evil rulers have inspired their followers throughout history.”
And I agree. Say, how many people joined and left quixtar over the last several years? People did not follow the Q or the new A at all, so by that logic the truth is not with Q/A. Here’s a test for the employees of Q/A. Randomly walk around anywhere and ask people if they trust Q/A. Or you can just look up how many people have signed up with Q/A and how many stuck!!! We (most free Americans that is) do not trust that name.
October 22nd, 2007 at 7:04 pm
#195 - Rico (the other one)
One word: brilliant.
#224 - SAK
I did exactly the same thing. Funny how much faster you can get through the posts when you ignore everything by or about Tex.
October 22nd, 2007 at 7:09 pm
One more thing concerning the rules. Can I leagally sell shark skin shoes to my former downline?
October 22nd, 2007 at 7:29 pm
#238 joh jay franklin:
Most people who sign up with any MLM do not stick around. It’s part of the MLM business that everbody knows is unavoidable.
October 22nd, 2007 at 7:40 pm
TEX # 237
Since when is “could you weigh in with a legal DEFINITION of this process” asking for ADVICE?
Who wants free legal advice ?
I am NOT Orrin and don’t need it. I’ve done nothing to go into arbitration for !
Just wanted an expert opinion, instead of your half baked one…………..
October 22nd, 2007 at 7:51 pm
I am amazed at how many folks have not figured out that “Tex” is not a plant for any company, but a “troll” set out to insult and pick at anyone who wll give him the time of day.
He’s having fun at everyone’s attempt to “get him!”. Leave him alone. Ignore him. If he doesn’t provoke a response he won’t matter.
Yes, I am with Team and no I wasn’t at Louisville.
October 22nd, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Hey Tex, why are you so angry? This is not a loaded or insincere question. In the many years of ministry, having counseled with scores of people dealing with anger issues. Your presentation is a classic case of some pent up feelings that are not healthy. Tex, God loves you and has a great purpose for your life. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever (THAT INCLUDED YOU TEX) believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” I not trying to be pious, just giving some food for thought. Think about it. Blessings on you, Tex.
October 22nd, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Tex -
Let me spell it for you another way …. InterNET. That help any?
October 22nd, 2007 at 9:36 pm
(Puts on the Tex mask for Halloween again)
Let’s see how the responses should have been…
glenn #226,
You’re right, glenn, I am afraid to say my real name because my mom would ground me from the computer. Please don’t get me banned from another blog forum; these are the only people that ever listen to what I say; even my dog bit me the other day.
I am definitely a person who would not do well with TEAM, I’m a liar and a coward. I am not about the truth and righteous indignation.
Tool scam — there is a scam. I tried to get into it, but they wouldn’t let me. I told them I was a leader and a Kingpin, but nobody followed me! Its all because of the TOOL SCAM I tell you!!!
w H a T #227,
somebody know about a/q selling cd’s on the buena park pick up center??? —- I really have no clue about what you are talking about since mommy won’t let me come with her to pick up products.
i saw a pallet of internet cd’s !! —- What’s an “internet cd”? [I didn’t need to change that one]
free blog post right??? —- Now you’re making even less sense, but still more than I make.
LET’S SEE —- Hopefully I will, some day; but until the, I will keep blogging, because nobody that actually knows me will listen to anything I say.
dannie #229,
They can’t “force” anyone into arbitration, they’ll just hold the arbitration procedure without Orrin. Just like the courts can try someone in abstentia. But don’t expect to win by not showing up. — I would love to go to a court room, but they won’t let me because I keep talking.
You missed the point, I have an issue I want to settle with Orrin and Co., the fact that they make more money than I do!
If they want restitution from Orrin for damages, that would appear to fall into the area of a court case…NOT arbitration. —- I don’t really know anything about how arbitration works; I just learned how to spell it last month!
You expect an lawyer to answer you on this blog? That’s funny; Orrin and Chris won’t answer me, why would anyone answer an intelligent question here?
(Removes the Tex Halloween costume)
My wonderful friend Tex, does it feel great to have your words twisted around? Tell ya what, my friend; I will treat you with the same respect that you treat others with. So far, that would include a pacifier and a diaper.
October 22nd, 2007 at 10:15 pm
I am so glad they couldn’t shut the meeting down. It was so packed they couldn’t hold all the people (and the private investigators hired by Q/A) so they had to use an adjacent building and simulcast the event with one speaker speaking in one building and then another speaker coming to the other one but both places could see the speaker because of the hugevideo screens and the adjacent building was full also.
We were in one accord (except for the p.i.’s) and our biggest chant was FREEDOM. Just let us go. Don’t be scared of our success.
The biggest problem with Q/A is you have a big egomaniac who is jealous of TEAM’s success, so much so that he wants to destroy them. He has tremendous pull with the family and they’ll basically do whatever he asks of them. And, ya know TEX, this ain’t about tools cause he has his own big tool company but was green with envy about the huge growth of the TEAM.
Tex
Eats
At
McDonalds
October 22nd, 2007 at 10:38 pm
glenn #230,
one more thing tex, you have obviously forgotten the things you have said about me and to me, your “counter attacks with gusto” are not informative or accurate. —- They are informative, accurate, and lots of fun, for me.
They are not worth debating you over. —- Of course not, I’m obviously right and you’re wrong. Why debate that, it’s a losing cause for you.
I will however defend your right of free speach and assembly(doubt you ever go anywhere) but your “free speach rights” stop when your insults and personnal attacks begin. —- Speech, it’s spelled speech. Not like the fruit, the peach. I do like your “canned” lines, however, even though they are the “pits”, but it is easy “slice” your arguments to shreds. You are so misinformed. You look and sound foolish. You may have some sort of smarts but you obviously are not choosing to use them at this time. Please go apply your expert opinions to someone elses cause. The tool scam position is beyond reproach. Your right to stay misinformed is just that, your right. Your baseless position (you talk it) have never been supported by anything other than your mouth.
I challenge you to show me the truth, share your vast knowledge with us, be a true mentor and show me the facts, not just empty words. —- I’ve already done that, it is your turn to get back on the internet and do some googling.
If you can not prove your case with facts then please just go play someplace else. If however you have verifiable facts then please present them in a rational manner. That meqans no insults or belittleing remarks. Are you up to the challenge? —- See above, come back with specific questions.
Fuddman #231,
The word is “our”, not “are”. You used the wrong word at least 4 times. It’s a single syllable, 3 letter word. This reflects negatively not only on you, both also on those who share your opinions and do not correct you. Not only do you lack facts, but you also lack basic 3rd grade communication skills. How do you expect ANYONE (except the scam-blinded Orrinites) to follow your thoughts, let alone want to follow your position? I won’t even point out the other misspelled words. The discussion turns into the tool scam no matter what the original topic was because the tool scam touches virtually every issue affecting this business. I have challenged many people to name a topic, and I will show how the tool scam probably directly or indirectly affects that issue. No takers so far, so they must accept my theory. The fact that a few ya-hoos don’t care that they are getting scammed doesn’t mean there isn’t a scam. It’s people like you who are “fired up” that do a 180 degree turn a year or two down the road, and are then telling others, “I used to believe like you, now I realize it is a scam”. The scammers get you all “fired up” into believing you are in some kind of a heroic mission, more God-inspired than the Dark Ages Crusades or our Revolutionary War, and more testosterone filled than the Viking invasions, then they turn around and empty your pockets via the tool scam. Open your eyes. Comparing the tool scam on your own “business partners” and “teammates” is not comparable to the companies you mentioned, not even close. Get a clue.
john #232,
Jesus “took the gloves off” and used perfectly acceptable righteous indignation in 2 situations. The first is when he was railing against the “leaders” of his time, who were very much like false prophets, and similar to the tool scam false profits. Also, he turned over tables and cleared out the temple, because the money changers had made a mockery out of the place intended for worship, just like the tool scam artists have changed your money into their money. The tables have turned on the tool scam as well. The parallels are striking and deep, if you dare pay attention to the facts.
October 22nd, 2007 at 10:43 pm
Amazed #246:
You are good!! Really enjoyed the post!
October 22nd, 2007 at 10:46 pm
“Tex….come up from the basement, it’s bedtime.”
But Mom, do I have too? Oh…alright.
Good night everybody. I gotta go to bed now.
October 22nd, 2007 at 11:25 pm
My bro attended the seminar and said he learned more in that weekend than the past two years of college combined.
Offering tools at for normal prices is not a scam. Team’s tool system is unique in that it is designed to actually drive the tool prices down so that they can be purchased for less serving even more people which will drive the cost down even further which will serve more people…
Having leaders teach from those tools because they themselves have studied those same tools and thousands of other tools is not a scam. It would be a scam for them to not share the same tools with us that has made them successful.
The only scam was the hot dogs and the burgers at the concession stand.
October 22nd, 2007 at 11:29 pm
Dan #235,
You are mistaken, I’m no wolf, but who are the sheep you are trying to protect, your downline?
John #236,
I disagree with glenn as well, but it’s not respectfully.
john #238,
If you agreed, you wouldn’t be following the TEAM tool scam artists. The tool scammers are the ones who damaged the name, and Orrin and Co. have taken the top “prize” with their illegal pyramid lawsuit that was DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE. I have NEVER had telephone discussion, face to face conversation, or a single e-mail with an employee that reflected negatively on Amway or Quixtar.
LisBette #239,
No wonder you come across as so clueless. Any military person considers it critical to “know thy enemy”, and any business person understands the principle of “know your compeetition”, so I consider your approach nothing short of completely stupid.
John #240,
I don’t know, but I’ll let you shine my shoes.
GirlPower #241,
Good point, the lying cowardly “kingpins” use this normal aspect of MLM as a “cover” for their tool scam.
dannie #242,
Since when is “could you weigh in with a legal DEFINITION of this process” asking for ADVICE? —- Legal definitions change from state to state.
Who wants free legal advice ? —- You did.
I am NOT Orrin and don’t need it. I’ve done nothing to go into arbitration for ! —- I didn’t say you did, I said your so-called leader did.
Just wanted an expert opinion, instead of your half baked one………….. —- Did you get one yet?
Troy #243,
I am amazed at how many folks have not figured out that “Tex” is not a plant for any company, but a “troll” set out to insult and pick at anyone who wll give him the time of day. —- Wrong again. I am an IBO fed up with the tool scam, and am doing my part to get it shut down.
He’s having fun at everyone’s attempt to “get him!”. Leave him alone. Ignore him. If he doesn’t provoke a response he won’t matter. —- I am having fun, and these clowns CAN’T leave me alone, because I am all they have, because they have no facts. Ignore me, great idea. I’ll get in the last word every time.
Yes, I am with Team and no I wasn’t at Louisville. —- You disloyal TEAM “pretender”, you’re not a true TEAM member, the real TEAM players were there, in KY. Now YOU will be rejected by TEAM, because obviously you don’t measure up to the high standards Orrin demands from the real TEAM followers. You loser.
Rick in KY #244,
Hey Rick, why are you so stupid? This is not a loaded or insincere question. In the many years of business, having counseled with scores of people dealing with tool scam issues. Your presentation is a classic case of lack of thinking and you are not informed of the facts. Rick, God loves you and has a great purpose for your life. I know the mission He has for me; to shut down the tool scam that has financially and emotionally damaged literally millions of former and current Distributor/IBO’s for for decades, to the tune of hundreds of millions to billions of dollars, perhaps more. Save your lackluster attempt of using the Word of God to cover up the tool scam for someone who doesn’t understand the Bible or the tool scam, because it falls flat and is disgusting to me, Rick, especially from a preacher. Give me a break, you don’t have a clue. You should stick with staying in the Word, because you are very confused when you try to apply it to the tool scam you obviously don’t understand, or worse, don’t want to understand.
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever (THAT INCLUDED YOU RICK) believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” I’m not trying to be pious, just giving some food for thought. Think about it. Blessings on you, Rick.
G #245,
What are you talking about? Can you refer to a previous post number before you ask an out of the blue question like that?
Ben #247,
Are you speaking of Ron Hale?
October 22nd, 2007 at 11:29 pm
Hi there y’all (this for Tex whoever he/she is)
Just to let you know Tex, I did read your insults, lies, and downright ridiculous insinuations, remarks, yada yada yada…..
I too, would like to know who the likes of who you are and who appointed you GOD.
My husband & I were at Louisville. The most awesome Leadership Conference ever attended. Tex and the rest of you bloggers against TEAM could have stood to have attended to learn some respect, attitude, consideration, kindness and decency of others. All you all know is how to insult people. Tex comes across as an arrogant egotistical (I’m trying to be nice pastor) blowhard who doesn’t know which end is up.
Approx 25,000+ attended the weekend. Freedom Hall holds 20,000 and it was packed - another building was opened up to hold the rest of the people in attendance and it was just about packed.
All the speakers, especially Orrin 2 speeches/teachings hit the ball right out of the park - way out. It was Tremendous! All the speakers were courteous, gracious, caring individuals who still, through all the garbage handed them over the past couple months, gave their hearts to everyone in attendance. Don’t get sarcastic either Tex. If you have a heart, maybe you’ll get the clue.
People of integrity always stand firm and come out ahead shining above all others. I feel sorry for some of you who are still deceived by Q. Amway many years started out great and full of integrity. It got lost somewhere along the way…..someone got greedy and forgot what the business was all about. What they also forgot was that people are loyal to people and their character, integrity, principles, credibility, honor, NOT products. Just for you TeX, I happen to love the Q products and vitamins. What we’ve decided is we don’t want to purchase any longer from a corporation who lies, continues on with childish fights, sneaks in non sense non compete rules and changes the ‘plan’, foregoes the reason for the IBOAI, ignores the wishes and suggestions of all their IBOs, changes what was set up for ‘changing lines of sponsorships’ to limiting and shackling of Independent Business Owners who choose to leave the Corporation, not just a line of sponsorship. I’ve watched the prices, the comparisons, have had my own issues and discussions with Q regarding prices going up only to be ignored; Vitamins kept going up in price, while PV stayed the same; BV may have gone up in conjunction with price, but it took one a whole lot more money to get to the same pv bracket it took less money to do years ago before 1999 Quixtar. I was good at helping people ‘reach’ their brackets. Could help people get their 100 pts for way under $200 - sometimes close to $150 and that included the tax and shipping. Nowadays, there is no way one can get to a bracket of 100 pv without costing them $240+. Formucare products mfg for Access Business Group come from the same mfg that supplies other Vendors for a whole lot less. I just purchased 240 tabs of Ranitadine for $6.00 from the same people who provide bottle of 30 tabs for Access Business Group - only ABG sells it for apaprox $7. You figure it out. When we sold or carried a particular litter also carried by Petsmart, Q sold it for twice the money - 30lb bag for $11.99 Petsmart; 2/15 lb bags for $30. Q tried to say it was 2 different items. It wasn’t!
Paper products, go figure it out. Paper products are high, but when you add tax and shipping and then special shipping it really get costly. Now get this one and see if you can figure it out. Q has their own papermill. They are able to produce their own paper products. They printed the Speigel catalog few years back. They boasted about it. So why do they charge everyone an arm and a leg for paper products they can produce on their own.
We’ve been to the Nutrilite factory. cleanest and most impressive building facility I’ve ever seen. Maybe Tex works for Q and that is why he is able to say all he says, and insult anyone he chooses without any interruption from the blog administrator here.
Sorry, for getting long, probably won’t be seen here,. I just can’t stand idiocy running rampant and taking so many innocent people with it.
TEAM is just what it is - a Leadership Development source providing educational/motivational material for all and any who desire to learn how to be a better person and pass that learning on to others as in the movie ‘Pay it Forward’. Product oriented people will never get it. So I have a life to live vs being controlled and taken away from better things in life. this will be the last you hear from me so all of you please be safe, take heart, listen with an open mind and heart, let your ‘yes’ be ‘yes’ and your ‘no’ be ‘no’ - this is biblical - may be good idea to read it unless you consider that part of a ‘tool’ scam.
I’m sure you want your surgeons, dentists, contractors, accountants, brokers, etc. who need ‘tools’ to utilize their ‘tool’s whether they be books, schooling, conferences, seminars, cds, dvds, etc., so they can provide you the best possible service available. But, maybe you consider all their ‘tools’ a scam for them as well.
God Bless and Let Freedom Ring!
Francine R. in Glendale, Az.
October 22nd, 2007 at 11:36 pm
I continue to hear that people “don’t understand the team”, but then you see post #170 and nobody from the team wants to respond to that (we are on post 250 now).
Maybe because that’s a post from somebody who WAS a part of the team and is presenting facts. It’s always easier to not respond to facts and simply present an opinion than actually try to refute what the team knows are facts. (Maybe nobody wants to respond because the team information provided was “fluff.”)
Another interesting thing is the people saying Quixtar should leave the team alone, yet still come out to a non-team site to talk about the team. Would that fall under they definition of hypocrite?
By the way, where did the extra 20,000 people (to make 40,000) sit at the maximum 19,169 capicity Freedom arena? That must have been a full parking lot.
October 22nd, 2007 at 11:44 pm
Hi there
one las thing I forgot. This blog is starting to sound like a bunch of Liberals blaming all the woes of the world on Pres Bush. No matter what happens, it’s President’s Bush’s fault.
This blog is a hate Orrin vs the country’s hate Bush. It isn’t all Orrin. TEAM and its success principles were there way before Orrin. They have always been there only some of you were just blinded or chose to be blindfolded.
Remember, when you point a finger at someone, there are 3 fingers pointing back at ya. Quit pointing fingers, quit with the hating, just truely start ‘helping’ people move forward in life - better relationships, better families, better business relationships, better husbands & wives, better children, better church relationships, better friendships…..this is some of what a true leader does and when the leader is there, business opportunities will show up.
God Bless
Warrior Princess/Angelwarrior
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:05 am
sorry to say this site has turned into a complete joke. Tex has gotten his way. He has proven himself to me that he is such a big man. He avoids the issues and subjects at hand, sounds like good Q/A talk to me, avoid deflect and distract from reality.
Tex, I’m glad you see fun and entertainment in other peoples pain, someday you must answer to your maker for the attitude you have and the hurts you deliver. I on the other hand will just say a prayer for you and wish you the best. I gave you the chance to prove your case, you could not and would not because you can not. I will not address you again, I will not waste my time with a poor attitude. Once you were given the chance to stand on your own to feet to prove your point(s), instead you wasted your time and life with insults and non productive childish behavior. Please feel free to enjoy your ego trip as I will not feed your negative ego anymore. Send all the insults and banter to me that you would like, it does not bother me. It is my choice to let the likes of you offend me ……….. and I will not let you offend me.
Might does not make right, right makes might. Sort it out for yourself …….. you all will make the right decision for youself.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:10 am
#82 dannie
#97 G
Here is the link to the documentation you requested. The letter is on pages 82 - 88.
http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Compendium_of_Exhibits.pdf
Thanks Piet (#156)
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:19 am
correction to my last post:
The letter actually appears several times in the PDF, along with repeats of other documents.
Don’t know why all the repetition.
But anyway, the letter of the PDF are pages:
25 - 31
45 - 51
63 - 69
82 - 88
104 - 110
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:37 am
call this the TEX blog thats all he wants to hear!!
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:03 am
Tex #189
“Who was the genius that decided to bypass the ENTIRE IBOAI to change the QUIXTAR name back to AMWAY (which is automatic business suicide)? —- As I have said many times before, I think this will turn out to be a brilliant change.”
I apologize for my statement if the name change is a “brilliant change.” I was just speaking from experience. Have you ever tried to promote the Amway/Quixtar business and someone responded “This isn’t Amway, is it?” Now if the business IS IN FACT AMWAY, and your prospect is already against it, wouldn’t that in fact make your business more difficult to build?
“In my opinion, this business will not survive if the tool scam mess isn’t cleaned up, which guarantees the tool scam will go away, with or without the Amway business surviving.”
I understand that there have been a history of tool scams in the Amway/Quixtar business. But just because there have been organizations in the past does not mean that TEAM is doing the same thing. In fact, there have been roughly 18 other organizations that requested to merge with TEAM (which is logical because TEAM’s system produces better and faster results), but because of their sketchy reputation of their tool payment structure, they were denied. Only a select few have been allowed to merge. And by the way, TEAM tools are like no other. Their tools help in all aspects of life (relationships within the family, workplace, with God, etc.) and I have seen the positive results of their tools in my life, (business aside). Because of this, at least for me it is money well spent and it helps that prices are more than reasonable. That’s why I still spend money on tools even though there is no product to retail to make a profit from (remember, TEAM is no longer associated with a business opportunity.)
Who was the genius who all of a sudden decided that depth is not allowed (which has been proven to be the fastest way to grow and stabilize your business)? —- “There is much more to the rule violations than simply building depth. I personally witnessed several of them at the Opens and Seminar I attended. Get a grip.”
What other rule violations were you referring to? And my issue isn’t really the fact that building depth was against the rules, it was the fact that they were in full support of it (otherwise why would they ask Orrinn to speak at Quixtar Live! for his achievements?) and then all of a sudden decided to change it to make it against the rules. It is clear to me that Quixtar/Amway simply because too scared that TEAM would eventually have too much power in the business and devise a way to make Orrinn and Chris want to leave. I agree with you on that. Absolutely.
Who was the genius who decided to ignore the whole marketability issue of overpriced products? —- “Haven’t you been keeping track, there have already been several changes made, and there will probably be more to come.”
Now I must admit, I was not aware that some price changes have been made, and that is definitely a good thing. But what’s interesting is the leaders of TEAM have been suggesting this for the benefit of ALL IBO’s (which means TEAM IBO’s AND NON-TEAM IBO’s) for years and YEARS. But Amway simply side-stepped the issue thinking that people are still buying the products just as they are and making BILLIONS, so why change it. But when Orrinn and Chris decide to step up to the plate on the issue along with ultimately thousands of other disgruntled IBO’s (also due to the name change to Amway among other reasons), Amway suddenly loses millions of dollars of revenue. And now they’re thinking, “Oh boy, I guess we should lower prices after all.” But it was too late, wasn’t it? Thousands of IBO’s are already gone because of there bureaucratic ways and takinig us for granted. So the timing of these so-called price changes is very interesting, don’t you think?
October 23rd, 2007 at 7:52 am
Why the personal attacks on Tex by the very ones who accuse Tex of personal atacks? There is a tools scam. Someone signs up for Quixtar in an organization like WWDB. One of the very first things they are told is if you want to succeed, you must follow our proven system of success. You must go CORE. You need to buy CDs, attend functions, get on Kate, become a premier member. All of these things put money in the Kingpins pockets. With a 98.6% dropout rate over 5 years, and with 98% of downline losing money - how can this be a “proven system of success”? Quixtar is too chicken to really deal with this because they are afraid of losing money. Their greed matches kingpin greed. That is why Quixtar developed the absolutely meaningless “Quixtar Accreditation” program. It makes it look like they are trying to deal with the tools issue when in reality they are not. That is why WWDB is not accredited but can continue to sell their motivational blah blah. What is the use of having an accreditation if those who don’t get accredited can still peddle their tools? Who loses? The college kids, single moms and struggling families who are being sold a lie.
October 23rd, 2007 at 9:11 am
225 Tex…I didn’t miss the termination letters at all, I also didn’t miss the court docs that says Amway can terminate an IBO for any reason
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:06 am
Passion4Christ #251,
My bro attended the seminar and said he learned more in that weekend than the past two years of college combined. —- Such as?
Offering tools at for normal prices is not a scam. Team’s tool system is unique in that it is designed to actually drive the tool prices down so that they can be purchased for less serving even more people which will drive the cost down even further which will serve more people…
—- What’s “normal”? Is it “noramal” for Orrin and Co. to lead prospects to think he was making most of his jillions on XS and food bars, while it really came from the “normal” priced tools?
Having leaders teach from those tools because they themselves have studied those same tools and thousands of other tools is not a scam. It would be a scam for them to not share the same tools with us that has made them successful. —- It’s not the teaching, learning, and sharing. It’s the tool scam lies.
The only scam was the hot dogs and the burgers at the concession stand. —- Anything that takes the attention away from the tool scam is a good thing for the upline, especially high Quixtar prices.
Francine #253,
Hi there y’all (this for Tex whoever he/she is) —- I’m a he, what are you?
Just to let you know Tex, I did read your insults, lies, and downright ridiculous insinuations, remarks, yada yada yada….. —- Which statements were inaccurate?
I too, would like to know who the likes of who you are and who appointed you GOD. —- I speak for every ripped off IBO and distributor that ever had a Distributor/IBO number. I was not appointed God, that’s not my job. Crushing the tool scam is, ask Orrin how he thinks I’m doing.
My husband & I were at Louisville. The most awesome Leadership Conference ever attended. Tex and the rest of you bloggers against TEAM could have stood to have attended to learn some respect, attitude, consideration, kindness and decency of others. All you all know is how to insult people. Tex comes across as an arrogant egotistical (I’m trying to be nice pastor) blowhard who doesn’t know which end is up. —- You left out honesty. Funny how that word is rarely mentioned. You don’t have to apologize to “pastor”, this is between you and God.
Approx 25,000+ attended the weekend. Freedom Hall holds 20,000 and it was packed - another building was opened up to hold the rest of the people in attendance and it was just about packed. —- I’ll bet that got that silly grin put back on Orrin’s face, little dollar signs for each ticket and tool sale were in his vision every time he blinked.
All the speakers, especially Orrin 2 speeches/teachings hit the ball right out of the park - way out. It was Tremendous! All the speakers were courteous, gracious, caring individuals who still, through all the garbage handed them over the past couple months, gave their hearts to everyone in attendance. Don’t get sarcastic either Tex. If you have a heart, maybe you’ll get the clue. —- I have a heart, Orrin’s turned up missing. Still not any honesty from Orrin? At least he’s consistent. Do you realize honesty is the highest attribute needed, by far, by a true leader, in hundreds of surveys taken, over the past several decades, around the world?
People of integrity always stand firm and come out ahead shining above all others. I feel sorry for some of you who are still deceived by Q. Amway many years started out great and full of integrity. It got lost somewhere along the way…..someone got greedy and forgot what the business was all about. What they also forgot was that people are loyal to people and their character, integrity, principles, credibility, honor, NOT products. —- Who got away from the products again? Sounds like it was the lying cowardly “kingpins”, because A/Q has always had them and still have them.
As far as your product comparisons, I think there are some improvements that need to be made, but that doesn’t mean the tool scam gets a green flag.
Sorry, for getting long, probably won’t be seen here,. I just can’t stand idiocy running rampant and taking so many innocent people with it. —- Guess what, it was seen here.
TEAM is just what it is - a Leadership Development source providing educational/motivational material for all and any who desire to learn how to be a better person and pass that learning on to others as in the movie ‘Pay it Forward’. —- Go for it. Just don’t break the rules.
Product oriented people will never get it. So I have a life to live vs being controlled and taken away from better things in life. this will be the last you hear from me so all of you please be safe, take heart, listen with an open mind and heart, let your ‘yes’ be ‘yes’ and your ‘no’ be ‘no’ - this is biblical - may be good idea to read it unless you consider that part of a ‘tool’ scam. —- We get it, it just took us a while to identify and call out the tool scam.
I’m sure you want your surgeons, dentists, contractors, accountants, brokers, etc. who need ‘tools’ to utilize their ‘tool’s whether they be books, schooling, conferences, seminars, cds, dvds, etc., so they can provide you the best possible service available. But, maybe you consider all their ‘tools’ a scam for them as well. —- Not even a close analogy, but thanks for trying.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:35 am
Hey “Tex”…you’re still a “troll”….
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:39 am
John #261,
You nailed it. Thanks for support, we’re winning.
A/Q has been slow to act (assuming you call the 24 years between the “Directly Speaking” recordings and now a long time), but we can’t turn back the clock back and must move forward from today.
Chris #262,
Where does it say Quixtar can terminate an IBO for any reason?
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:50 am
#241 Girl power
I understand that mlm has a large number of people who get in and get out, that is not the argument. Look at the averages for the mlm industry and at Q/A. It is five times higher with Q/A than industry averages!!! I am not including my team in that because it was much lower than that, but ALL of Q/A. If a company is losing people at five times the average then it is time to sit down and say “hmmmmmm”. And I have a hard time believing it is the tool system knocking them out since that number is as high or higher on teams without the tool system.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:54 am
Marc#260
Don’t let the TexSpin fool you. Prices were reduced on only a few products and in the UK only. Not in the US.
Remember, by his own admission Tex gets “paid by the blog”. The question you must ask is who is paying him. He said it wasn’t Amway but he didn’t say that it wasn’t their lawers.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:54 am
Tex, concerning the bible translation you are getting, it’s time to change. Get a good bible and learn your history. Money changers are not salesmen selling something. Jesus saw injustices happening (say 13 dollars for shaving gel) and fixed the problem. He also educated people (like the tools). You are simply barking (mad?) up the wrong tree.
P.S. I actually like the snide comment about shining your shoes. Funny, but not going to happen! Keep up the humor buddy.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:02 am
#254 Freedom
Team wanting to go to a non team site telling Q to leave us alone is hypocrite? My dad always told me to not start a fight and not to fight. But if a bully was picking on me to win the fight. That is not hypocritical, that is common sense. We are not here to bother Q and their ibo (um abo) distributors. We are here fighting the bully. When the bully finally falls, gives in, or calls it truce, we will leave this site. The team leadership is kind, but not fearful. We want peace with the corporation, but that doesn’t mean we are going to let them destroy us. We are not hypocrites, just defenders of our beliefs. Hope this clears up the thoughts out there.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:15 am
John and Tex,
I agree that there was, and may still be, a tool scam going on, if you look at the history of TIF and TEAM, the leaders in both wanted nothing more than to eliminate the “scam” by showing the profits and making a fair system.
The problem seems to be that the ones who were profiting the most from the scams are also powerful enough to steer the corporation and keep the tool information secret by decree.
I only pick on Tex because of two things:
1. “Me thinks he dost protest too much”… in other words, it makes no sense to rant and rave about a single issue to such an extreme as to make the problem laughable.
2. Tex posts so much, and the answer to all questions is “tool SCAM”.
It would be one thing to state your opinion a couple of times, but the “tool SCAM” is not the reason that people are not successful. Many people have built large businesses in spite of the “tool SCAM”.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:21 am
#263 Tex
Honesty is not the highest atribute in leadership. It is a prerequisite. You can’t even get to the playing field of leadership without honesty. And yes that was spoken of throughout the weekend. It’s also in the leadership book (now available at bookstores everywhere, you should pick it up, not buy it just read it at Borders while drinking their over priced coffee). If you think honesty is the highest atribute, I am glad you are not leading me. “Now that I am a Leader, I will learn honesty”. Wow. You know, the more you post the more I think you never heard Team cd’s or seminars. That or just picked and chose what you wanted to hear. I wish you could see my notes from the cd’s, books and seminars. Most of your posts would have to be deleted. But this I will say about you. I am proud of you. I bet you never would have guessed a team person would say that!!! But seriously I am. One of the things we teach is to find something you feel you are called to do and do it with gusto. Do it with all your ability. Get better with it. That, my friend, I believe you are doing. I am proud of you for that. I would love to sit down with you over some coffee someday and discuss all these issues because, as adamant as you are against us, if I could ever find a chink in your armor of hatred against us, you would be a most welcome ally. You would be the Hulk Hogan of my team. And if not, I would just encourage you to keep fighting hard. Either way, you are a warrior. Keep it up and get better. Keep learning the secrets of the trade. Keep fighting the good fight.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:27 am
John,
I forgot the main reason for the Tex costume, lol… it’s the fact that his responses to others are disrespectful. I have no issues with people who respectfully disagree with me on any topic, but disrespect is a sign of hate; you cannot have hate and love in the same place.
I do hope that it was obvious that my “poking fun” at Tex was simply to make a point, not as an “attack”… thanks for understanding, my friend Tex
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:48 am
Amazed #270,
If you look properly at TIF, you will see that those IBO’s were terminated because they had structured their promotional materials in such a way that it was a clear pyramid scheme.
And any BSM can be interpreted in a pyramid fashion - you buy these CD’s, which guarantee you the right to get some people to buy their own CD’s, and if you get enough people to buy CD’s, you will make money.
Which is why A/Q has aways refused to allow tool profits to be disclosed. It is a business opportunity to sell Amway products. Not a leadership business. No matter how good the training is. You need to make a decision, either you and your group are in the Amway business, or you are in the leadership business.
If you want to run a leadership business, go and do that, but don’t piggyback on somebody else’s success, to keep the regulators off your back.
BTW, the fact that a scam is in the open, does not suddenly make it legitimate. There are countless examples of pyramids shut down, that were operating openly. So Team, or TIF, or any other BSM supplier publishing their margins, will not make them a legitimate business. You have to get past the FTC rules governing pyramids. And in my opinion, a “leadership” MLM will have an extremely hard time being allowed to operate by the FTC.
There is this silly little requirement of consuming products. And listening to CD’s will not convince many people…
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:50 am
Passion4Christ #251: “The only scam was the hot dogs and the burgers at the concession stand.”
Alleliuia!! Finally the scam Tex has been looking for! $3.00 for a small popcorn, $5.00 for a large! Redenbacher microwave popcorn, $5.00 for a box of 6, I think.
At one seminar they had a local pizzaria in there selling a slice of pepperoni for 3.50, two for 7.00. You can go to Little Caesars and pick up a whole large pepperoni for $5.55. Come on, you have seen the ads!
The travesty! They are making a profit off my love of pizza and the fact that they confiscate any food or beverages at the door!!! Call the FTC, call the ACLU! Heck, someone call Tex, surely he can get to the bottom of it.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Blog admins - assuming you’re not going to do the sensible thing and ban Tex, could you at least enforce the guideline regarding “excessively long” posts that you’ve required of others? I’m sure I’m not the only one who’d appreciate it …
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:23 pm
Piet - the “buy CDs” part itself does not in most cases make what TIF/TEAM etc were doing a potential illegal pyramid. Requiring such purchases to join, as Ron Simmons said was part of the TEAM philosophy, and then paying people based on those required purchases - that can make something an illegal pyramid.
Incidentally, a lot of other MLMs appear to do this, and IMO they’d be in trouble if the FTC decided to investigate them.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:29 pm
John 261,
Excellent points. It makes sense people would get sick of that. But it is not relevant.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:34 pm
We had an amazing time this weekend. So glad we went. I LOVED it. Thank you Orrin for all your hard work. Many of us cried when you entered the arena knowing your dedication to the Team. Thank you Orrin. We love you and the rest of the leaders!
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:41 pm
amazed #272,
You expect to repect someone who supports the tool scam and the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit? Those are the sources of my righteous indignation, which you think are disrespectful.
Piet #273,
I disagree that the tool scam was okay before it was exposed. That makes no sense. It’s okay to scam your “business partners” and “teammates”, as long as they don’t know it? Ridiculous. The upline was misrepresenting their source of profit before the tool profits were well known, and they are doing it after it was exposed. Only now we KNOW they are lying. However, now that the “cat is out of the bag”, it doesn’t matter any more, does it?
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:44 pm
There is no “requirement of consuming products”. In order to be a legal business there must be a product or service. Leadership training is a service. Ask John Maxwell. Other than leadership training, what does he do? Also, as has been said several times now, Team is not a MLM. Also, leadership skills helps greatly with the selling of Amway products, which is why the company allowed it for so long.
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:58 pm
Hi #52,
Why do I feel that way??
You even need to ask??
If I have to explain the fact that Quxitar /Amway began this whole battle by trying to defamate the character of anyone involved with TEAM then you are further removed from the truth than I could have ever imagined.
Are you implying that Quxitar /Amway acted in a moral and ethical way? That their prime objective is to protect the IBOs?
How do you explain the lack of respect for the IBOAI, which by the way, was originally created by the founders years before Amway even had a product (Frisk, which then became LOC)? The American Way Association, now known as the IBOAI, was formed to protect the distributors from the parent company trying to “change the deal”. Which is what Quxitar /Amway is in the process of doing… changing the deal.
Why would Quxitar /Amway attempt to shut down a seminar in Louisville, KY…because they know it’s a real threat to their existence.
Quxitar /Amway lost the war against TEAM right from the start, with their child-like tactics and deceit. Quxitar /Amway have acted in a most unprofessional manner. As I’ve said earlier, nothing but lies and deceit.
This will be the downfall of Quxitar /Amway, especially once this all blows over and there is a mass exodus of Diamond organizations waitng in line to join TEAM.
I guess time will tell.
In fact, I would be very surprised if this is ever posted.
Regards and all the best.
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:13 pm
ibofightback#275: We think the sensible thing is to stay away from bans unless absolutely necessary. Shorter would be sweeter, though — Tex, think you can break up that last one you submitted? Thanks.
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:26 pm
IBOFB #276
NO ONE I know was EVER required to buy any cds, books, tools of any sort to join the Team OR Quixtar/Amway.
Don’t know where you got that info, but it is totally inaccurate.
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:27 pm
IBOFB #76
PS
Please re-read Simmons post..you mis-read what he stated.
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Jester311 #274,
Did the concession people claim to be your “business partner” or “teammate”?
ibofb #275,
Sorry, this isn’t a Commie blog like your inferior one that I have been “banned” from, twice. I know you can’t handle the truth, so what’s the alternative? Just “ban” me, as if anyone can actually be banned from the internet.
My posts are short, I just happen to respond to most of the garbage that others try to put out on this site.
ibofb #276,
The “pay all IBO’s for tools” is what TIF was doing that made an illegal pyramid. TIF didn’t require purchase of those tools as strongly as Ron Simmons said was part of the TEAM philosophy, but they were “highly recommended”, and such a strong enticement that only the really dense wouldn’t buy them.
AEM #277,
What John said was completely relevant.
Negative Nancy #279,
Sure the crying wasn’t because people couldn’t afford the concession prices, because Orrin and Co. had all their money?
john #281,
The way TEAM is run makes it much more like an MLM than any other model.
qwerty #282,
Why do I feel that way?? You even need to ask?? —- Yes, we all need a good laugh.
If I have to explain the fact that Quxitar /Amway began this whole battle by trying to defamate the character of anyone involved with TEAM then you are further removed from the truth than I could have ever imagined. —- How did they do that, by asking you if you intended to follow the rules?
Are you implying that Quxitar /Amway acted in a moral and ethical way? That their prime objective is to protect the IBOs? —- Their prime objective is to move products and services, and do so in a legal and ethical manner. When IBO’s don’t follow the rules that govern that process, they try to work with them, but if the IBO’s keep breaking the rules and are not interested in fixing their errors, they are terminated. That is the right thing to do, to protect the IBO’s who do follow the rules.
How do you explain the lack of respect for the IBOAI, which by the way, was originally created by the founders years before Amway even had a product (Frisk, which then became LOC)? The American Way Association, now known as the IBOAI, was formed to protect the distributors from the parent company trying to “change the deal”. Which is what Quxitar /Amway is in the process of doing… changing the deal. —- The IBOAI hasn’t protected us for decades, they are so caught up in their own tool scams. That’s probably why Rich and Jay left the Board and turned it into an advisory committee, not a decision making/approval body. I was kicked off their Commie blog as well, for asking the wrong questions.
Why would Quxitar /Amway attempt to shut down a seminar in Louisville, KY…because they know it’s a real threat to their existence. —- No, because they wanted to enforce their court order, and find out the reason(s) why the judge decided against them, so they can use that against TEAM for the next major tool scam function scheduled for Febrrary 22, 2008 in St. Louis.
Quxitar /Amway lost the war against TEAM right from the start, with their child-like tactics and deceit. Quxitar /Amway have acted in a most unprofessional manner. As I’ve said earlier, nothing but lies and deceit. —- What do you call Orrin’s desire to not follow rules for years, wanting to break more on his way out, and filing the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit, grown up and professional?
This will be the downfall of Quxitar /Amway, especially once this all blows over and there is a mass exodus of Diamond organizations waitng in line to join TEAM. —- I have news for you, it’s already over, you just haven’t been notified yet.
I guess time will tell. —- Time will tell.
In fact, I would be very surprised if this is ever posted. —- I’m not. I have seen that statement in too many other posts on this site.
Regards and all the best. —- You too, as long as it isn’t another scam.
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:35 pm
Troy #264,
You’re still a Troy.
john #266,
Where do you get your 5X number from? If Q is higher than the average, one must look at what is different. I think you will find the tool scam is the major difference. Deal with it.
IBO To Go #267,
I don’t have TexSpin, I have TexFacts (actually, just plain facts, but if you want to play that game, so be it). I think entire product lines had their prices reduced in he UK. The U.S. has seen new products where prices were reduced, and the Daily vitamin price was reduced recently, along with the large containers of XS syrup. Also, the new products are very fairly and competitively priced, although not technically a “reduction”. There is probably more to come. You lose.
I was kidding about getting “paid by the blog”, in response to repeatedly being asked that question, I got tired of answering it, so I answered to make the question go away by telling them what they wanted to hear. Nobody pays me to blog, unless you consider the future success of my Amway business as payment. Get a grip.
john #268,
When I want you advice, I’ll ask. Just don’t count on me asking. Money changers are upline ripping off their “business partners” and “teammates”. The product examples can easily be dealt with, don’t buy them if you think the price is too high, upline preached 100% product loyalty, not Quixtar. If we don’t buy it, Q will either lower the price or drop the product, problem solved. There are thousands of products to choose from, so this isn’t near the problem you are pretending it is. He also educated people (like the tools), but didn’t rip them off in the process. You are simply barking (mad?) up the wrong tree.
And you’re not my “buddy”, in case you or anyone else is confused about this.
john #269,
The reason you are here is because you support lying cowards, and it is expected you would be here with your garbage.
The team leadership is kind of stupid, not fearful, but they should be. If you wanted peace you wouldn’t have started the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit. You’ve already been defeated, now go away and start your next scam. Hope this clears up the facts out there.
amazed #270,
I agree that there was, and may still be, a tool scam going on, if you look at the history of TIF and TEAM, the leaders in both wanted nothing more than to eliminate the “scam” by showing the profits and making a fair system. —- TIF wanted an illegal pyramid by paying all IBO’s and TEAM violated many other rules.
The problem seems to be that the ones who were profiting the most from the scams are also powerful enough to steer the corporation and keep the tool information secret by decree. —- It’s over, the secret is out, and the scam is out of business in the UK.
1. I “rant” for the new readers, who don’t typically go back to the beginning and read my earlier posts.
2. Wrong again, I said the tool scam is by far the largest problem, not the only one.
But I’m glad you’re making progress understanding what is going on.
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:35 pm
john #271,
Honesty is not the highest atribute in leadership. It is a prerequisite. You can’t even get to the playing field of leadership without honesty. —- That’s my point, you are read to believe the upline made their bucks with XS and energy bars, and most of it came from the tool scam. They never stepped on the field of leadership, but fooled a lot of people they were the starting QB.
And yes that was spoken of throughout the weekend. It’s also in the leadership book (now available at bookstores everywhere, you should pick it up, not buy it just read it at Borders while drinking their over priced coffee). If you think honesty is the highest atribute, I am glad you are not leading me. “Now that I am a Leader, I will learn honesty”. Wow. —- I didn’t say honesty was to be learned after you are a leader, I said, “Do you realize honesty is the highest attribute needed, by far, by a true leader, in hundreds of surveys taken, over the past several decades, around the world?”
You know, the more you post the more I think you never heard Team cd’s or seminars. —- I’ve got over 100 of them, they sound like all the other tools from many other systems. Have you listened to other system tools?
That or just picked and chose what you wanted to hear. I wish you could see my notes from the cd’s, books and seminars. Most of your posts would have to be deleted. —- What notes of yours would result in deleting my posts?
But this I will say about you. I am proud of you. I bet you never would have guessed a team person would say that!!! But seriously I am. One of the things we teach is to find something you feel you are called to do and do it with gusto. Do it with all your ability. Get better with it. That, my friend, I believe you are doing. I am proud of you for that. —- I learned that one the tapes and books, long before TEAM came along, “my friend”.
I would love to sit down with you over some coffee someday and discuss all these issues because, as adamant as you are against us, if I could ever find a chink in your armor of hatred against us, you would be a most welcome ally. —- I have no hatred against you, I have hatred against WHAT you do, via the tool scam.
You would be the Hulk Hogan of my team. And if not, I would just encourage you to keep fighting hard. Either way, you are a warrior. Keep it up and get better. Keep learning the secrets of the trade. Keep fighting the good fight. —- For us to work together, you would have to be an IBO in my group and have to make MAJOR adjustments in your view of the tool scam in order to stay in our group.
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:38 pm
dannie #284/5,
He got it from Ron Simmons, CEO of Legacy, who merged with TEAM a few months ago. He said it after the merger, I think the June/July 2007 timeframe, in an e-mail to Quixtar executives. Ron was very clear in what he said. Provide an alternative interpretation if you want to.
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:41 pm
I know that Orrin has resigned or has been terminated (whichever you want to believe)from Q. But I have also read in a few posts that he has resigned from TEAM. Is that accurate information? I am on TEAM and have not heard that. I will admit that I am not communicating with many other TEAM members at this time, but I am still interested in what’s going on. Can anyone shed some light on this?
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:52 pm
AEM and Others,
The tools abuse is the most revelant issue facing Quixtar today. In WWDB, if someone is Core, they are paying for 4 major functions per year, CDs every single week, Kate voice mail, premier membership, regional opens,book of the month. Now, the brand new IBOs are taught that in order to succeed, this is the proven system. The cost of all of these “tools” is easily $250 per month or $3,000 per year. Remember, they are taught this is the “proven system”. They say tools are optional, but so is success. If WWDB only has 50,000 on CORE (ofcourse they say they are duplicating so it must be much more). But if only 50,000 IBOs on CORE that is $150,000,000 being spent on tools & that goes into kingpin pockets. If Britt and Yager are the same, that is $450 million being spent on tools which exceeds all bonuses combined paid to IBOs from Quixtar. If the money spent on tools was spent on products, Quixtars business would more than double this year and a lot of IBOs would be able to make money. So, here is my question. What is causing IBOs to lose money - buying tools instead of products. The tools systems are the biggest hinderance to IBOs growing a good Quixtar business. Now, only the kingpins know how many are on CORE, but if we listen to them, this is the best, successful, growing business in the world. So I trust 50,000 must be conservative.
October 23rd, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Tex 285
AEM #277,
You’re right what John said was completely irrelevant.
Thank you for seeing the light tex
October 23rd, 2007 at 3:17 pm
#253 Francine R aka Warrior Princess in Az:
“Tex and the rest of you bloggers against TEAM could have stood to have attended to learn some respect, attitude, consideration, kindness and decency of others.”
So you’re saying that fellow team cronies are/have been these things? Do you really believe that filing a bogus lawsuit falls under the category of decent and kind? If your leaders were decent and considerate they would have worked w/Q to end their rule violations.
Frankly, after misleading so many of you for so long they couldn’t eat crow by telling you they’d taught you incorrectly. So instead they started this entire mess. They are none of the things you think they are. And it’s kind of sad and pathetic that you’re all too enamored w/your leaders to see the truth.
#269 john jay franklin:
“We want peace with the corporation.”
Calling Quixtar an illegal pyramid sounds like fighting words to me. Apparently your version of peace and mine are not the same.
October 23rd, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Let’s try to develope some perspective.
tex, the adults are going to talk now; go to your room and watch the Power Rangers and we’ll call you when it’s time for supper.
Wait.
Wait.
OK. So why does Alticor tolerate tex’s drivel on this blog?
Some think tex is a paid blogger, but I think it’s more likely that he’s a dupe rather than a tool. If the lawyers are running amok as some have postulated, then letting the Lone Stranger post ad museum allows them to argue that they have an open forum. “We’re in favor of free speech-that’s why we have a blog where we let anyone post. Here, look at all these from this idiot, tex! He blasts us, the distributors, everyone. See, we’re open and encouraging of discussion.” Let’s face it, the administrator has to take Pepto to read all of tex’s diarrhea, but the layers see an advantage. That makes tex whatcha call a ‘Useful Idiot’. They wouldn’t have any time for him at all other than demonstrating something for CYA.
October 23rd, 2007 at 3:19 pm
So what is tex’s deal?
Clearly, the blogosphere provides a way for tex to receive the attention that he is starving for everywhere else. A child craving attention often engages in bad behavior because to the undeveloped, any attention is attention. If we met this guy on the street, he probably wouldn’t even make eye contact. Only here, from the security of his closet, can he be somebody. Sad really.
October 23rd, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Why the Johnny One Note?
When you register 5 people in 90 days, you generally get a now, a later, a wholesale customer, a mystery and a maverick. The maverick looks initially like a now, but he’s not teachable. Several months later, expected results aren’t there because the maverick wouldn’t follow instructions, they quit and blame somebody else. This points to the fatal character flaw, lack of personal responsibility. It was my upline, they didn’t do something. It was the people I registered, they wouldn’t listen, (talk about your duplication!). It was the tools. It was…you get the picture.
Lacking the courage, the character, the interpersonal skills and the humility to submit to mentorship, the maverick, a.k.a tex, sits in the dark searching for validation and a victory. Alticor Media Blog provides the platform. tex spouts off, draws fire, and engages in debate; certainly he is a master debater. Well meaning people who are in the business of reaching out to others mistake this guy for someone who wants to understand, who wants to succeed. Nope; he only wants the attention.
As the posts compile, more and more people are seeing tex as the sad little man that he is. Let him post, what else does he have? The more space he is given on this blog, the more everyone can see who and what he is.
texxx! Supper’s ready!
October 23rd, 2007 at 3:29 pm
Claude #289,
I think it is clear Orrin and Chris were terminated, the rest of the “illegal lawsuit” characters resigned. Yes, he “resigned” from TEAM, probably a legal maneuver of some sort that probably has little practical impact. It was on a thread on this blog, “Just gone - Orrin?”
October 23rd, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Danne, #283/#284. You are partially correct. What Ron Simmons actually said, in his letter to Gary Vanderveen, was -
It (sic) people are not willing to purchase the product portion of the registration then they are not invited to be a part of the Team LOA. We understand that they can join Quixtar for just the paperwork cost but they can not be a Quixtar IBO affiliated with the Team for just the paperwork cost.
Just prior to this he talks about BSM and products as part of the startup. After it he starts no one would of course be required to purchase the BSM portion.
Doesn’t matter though, whether BSM, Q* product, or BSM+Q* product, the TEAM philosophy of *requiring* product purchase to join as part of TEAM was potentially making Quixtar/TEAM an illegal pyramid - precisely as Q* claimed when they terminated TEAM.
October 23rd, 2007 at 3:58 pm
IBOFB #276 / Tex #288
The comment made by Ron Simmons was that some Team IBOs would not sponsor people who did not want to purchase an opening package of Q products. That, in itself, should not have been done. I’m sure it was to get folks acquainted with the product line, but still should not have been required, IMO. I never did it.
But it was NOT a required purchase of TOOLS. I think those of us on TEAM might be in a better position to know what was going on, than you are.
Now if you think he stated otherwise, come up with chapter and verse, instead of throwing out a comment that is not accurate.
You were never IN Team, Tex…remember ?
October 23rd, 2007 at 4:02 pm
john jay franklin #280
Selling products to an end consumer is a requirement to demonstrate that a business is legal and not just a self consumption scheme that only those higher up in the pyramid can benefit from. Think about it. If nothing was ever sold, how do those at the bottom of the organization ever get paid? The answer of course is to sponsor others into the business. But wait..getting paid for sponsoring is illegal. Hence, the need to sell to others that are not in the organization. FTC v Amway … a very interesting read.
October 23rd, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Hi Tex
I would never want to get into a typing contest with you.
I am amazed at how fast you can type and I do not care how big or wordy a post is.
Does anyone know if A/Q/A is retailing products? [not through an IBO]
Alticor is a manufacture. Do they make products for other companies or just for IBOs?
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:04 pm
John #290,
You nailed it, again.
AEM #291,
You’re welcome.
GirlPower #292,
I agree 100%.
toomuchtex #293/4/5,
Let’s try to develope some perspective. —- Let’s first develop some correct spelling, note the lack of the “e” on the end of the word develop?
OK. So why does Alticor tolerate tex’s drivel on this blog? —- Because it is factual.
The open forum is to enable me to communicate the truth and for you to show us all what a fool you are.
So what is tex’s deal? —- You’re an idiot.
Clearly, the blogosphere provides a way for toomuchtex to receive the attention that he is starving for everywhere else. A child craving attention often engages in bad behavior because to the undeveloped, any attention is attention. If we met this guy on the street, he probably wouldn’t even make eye contact. Only here, from the security of his closet, can he be somebody. Sad really.
One problem with your little story is I didn’t quit, but I was part of why Orrin and Co. were terminated.
There is no “Lacking the courage, the character, the interpersonal skills and the humility to submit to mentorship” when it comes to the lying cowardly “kingpins”, that’s a joke. I’m not sitting in the dark, and validation/victories are coming like machine gun fire. I don’t want attention, I want attention on the tool scam. All you’re doing is trying to shoot the messenger, but you can’t, because the message is the truth. If I’m a “little man”, that makes Orrin an ant.
Squish…oops, Orrin are you okay?
ibofb #297,
What Ron said they did is against the rules. Making anything more than the registration cost required is not allowed. Ron’s approach effectively does that.
dannie #298,
These are Ron Simmon’s words, not mine.
BK #299,
You’re right. That is exactly what the rules department told me, the products being sold outside the organization (non-IBO’s) shows the products are competitively priced (for similar quality). Otherwise, all IBO’s are doing is pushing money up a pyramid, which is illegal.
Pa #300,
No (they don’t sell around the IBO’s).
Yes (they do manufacture for others).
Short enough?
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:10 pm
Hey everyone,
The Leadership Development Meeting in Louisville was Great. Wonder how many resignation letters have been processed at Q. Might lead to a negative registration rate in some months to come. I see Quixtar going from 1.1 Billion to 750 Million in North American Sales Real Soon. Looking forward to gathering as much of their loss as possible.
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:27 pm
#300 Pa:
Quixtar does NOT retail products through anyone other than their IBOs.
ABG is the manufacturing group under Alticor. (Alticor is the umbrella company for Quixtar, Amway & Access Business Group.) They do provide contract manufacturing for other companies. (You can view that information on ABG’s website.)
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Chan Man #302,
Thanks for putting that in writing, I think Orrin was thinking the same thing when he filed the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit. As a result of arbitration, he may not be coming up for air for a much longer time period than the standard 6 month waiting period.
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:53 pm
#302 Chan Man:
Several of y’all have stated that team is not competing w/Q and that team is not an MLM. Are you implying that they are? (Or have plans to become? And are soliciting Q IBOs?) Sure sounds like it.
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:55 pm
IBOFB #297
The “required” purchase was to get the new IBO started with having product to market.
What is the best way to host a house meeting or to get a prospective customer interested in what you have to sell? Have some of your product on hand for them to try.
Since Team focused on Sports/Nutrition, they worked up an initial order of approximately 50PV worth of XS and Trim Advantage products. Full sized orders of product so you had enough product to promote. This was not much different than the Quixtar Product Intro Pack* , that offers a sampling of products for the new IBO to try. Here is what that contains:
Double X® Vitamin/Mineral/Phytonutrient (10 day supply)
Nutrilite® Chewable Concentrated Fruits and Vegetables (60 tabs)
XS Energy Drink (3 cans)
XS Power Nutrition Energy Bar (1 bar)
Trim Advantage®Protein Bar (1 bar)
Trim Advantage Meal Replacement Bar (1 bar)
SA8® with Bioquest® Concentrated Detergent (1.6 lbs.)
Satinique® Gentle Daily Shampoo (10 fl. oz.)
(Not a whole lot of product for sharing and promoting)
We signed many people up that did not take advantage of making that initial order and having product available for promotion or resale. I can say for a fact, they are the ones that never did anything with the business; no house meetings, one-on-ones, selling, or self consumption.
Those that did get that initial order did actually do something with their business.
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Tex, IBOFB, and all the confused people!
There us nothing in the rules to say that you can’t do what Ron Simmons stated. Quixtar says you cannot deny them from Quixtar. That requirement has nothing to do with being an illegal pyramid. Any lawyer will tell you the initial requirement of product is considered an inventory investment. Quit watching law and order people you are making yourself look bad!
October 23rd, 2007 at 6:50 pm
Girlpower, We do want peace with the company that is why we tried so hard to solve the problems we thought were the biggest. We just disagreed with the company what the big problems were.
Tex, sorry for trying to be friendly to you and encouraging you. With the nice things I tried to say to you and your insults back, I think I will talk to different people. A simple “thank you, but we still disagree” would have been wonderful for the conversation. I see that you are truly not wanting to solve any of these problems, just want to spew. I misread you. I personally would love to sit with some of these anti-team people and have a real conversation to solve all the problems from both sides, but I see this site is simply an anti-team site dedicated to bashing any person affiliated or friendly with team. Good bye all.
October 23rd, 2007 at 6:53 pm
#299
again, it must be products or services and again you are assuming team is mlm which that court case references. We have services, and products with the cd’s and books, and are not mlm.
October 23rd, 2007 at 6:59 pm
IBOFB #297
Thank you for clarifying ( as I tried to do on #298 ).
I agree that requiring a product purchase should not have been done. But again, that is NOT what I was taught…some may have been. So it was clearly not a “cross the board” rule.
As in all LOS, there are always a few mavericks….should ALL be painted with the same brush ? Should the TEAM organization as a whole be accused of “illegal practices” ?
October 23rd, 2007 at 7:21 pm
Tex 296
“I think it is clear Orrin and Chris were terminated, the rest of the “illegal lawsuit” characters resigned”.
From the e-mail Quixtar sent me on 8-14-07
“The terminations of Woodward, Brady, Billy Florence, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Chuck Goetschel, Tim Marks, Kirk Birtles, James Martin, Aron Radosa, David Brandy, Benjamin Dickie, Bruce Gilbank, Michael Martenson, and Chuck Cullen will help correct practices that put Quixtar and all IBOs at serious and immediate risk of legal and regulatory action”.
So which is it tex? Did they resign like you claim? or were they terminated?
October 23rd, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Time to go TEAM-mates -
At this point all we’re doing here is giving Tex something to respond to with same replies we’ve already heard (nothing new under the sun there)and corp barristers posts to sift through hoping for shreds of “evidence”.
Let ‘em both work for their pay … or maybe they can go debrief Inspector Clouseau again …
October 23rd, 2007 at 8:13 pm
WOW!
I REALLY cannot beleive that all these TEAM members are still here! Chan Man et all…why are you still here? This is no longer a community you wish to be part of. I have heard from other TEAM members that it is their “free speech” right to be here. That is totally bogus. Just because you have the “right” to speech, we do not have to listen. What is your excuse…I mean reason to be here.
Just head off into the sunset with all the rest of the TEAM…OK
Really
It’s Time.
Way Past Time Actually.
Just Go now…..It’s OK…we will all be OK here.
Really…Go On…remove this from your favorites list and Google some other site.
October 23rd, 2007 at 8:37 pm
john jay franklin #269
If I heard more posts like that from team people I wouldn’t feel the way I do. Whether I agree with you or not, I can respect sticking up for what you believe in. It’s the people who call people “fluff” and then upon getting a response with facts, run away from that conversation that get me. That is what I’ve gotten from my Diamond, Founders Platinum and sponsor.
From the very beginning my real question revolved around one of Orrin’s own CD’s. Go back and listen to Head, Heart and Hunger. That is one of the best CD’s I ever heard for this business. He covers everything. And that’s where my problems start. I listen to that CD and have asked what changed? Nobody will give me real answers.
I’ve heard the Amway thing, but all my upline was fired up about that before the terminations. And Orrin made a ton of money in Amway.
In that CD Orrin talkes about “leadership development” on that CD and what set the Quixtar model apart from just CD’s and books.
I’ve heard product pricing, yet Orrin covers that on the CD. And I got that CD a couple years ago. Orrin didn’t seem to have a problem making millions on over priced products a couple years ago obviously.
But the one thing from the CD I questioned the most, the one that gets dodged faster than a stealth airplane, is his comments about “He who has the gold makes the rules” and Sam Walton took whatever he could get in the beginning, then later went back to their supplies and said “we’re your #1 customer, right” and basically told them how everything was going to work.
I flat out asked if Orrin got all these Diamonds together so they could tell Quixtar “we’re your #1″ team with the thoughts they would tell Quixtar what the new rules would be.
Just the look on their face and the silence and stuttering was like a kid getting caught with their hand in the cookie jar. They had an overall reaction of “Oh, !#@$!, we got caught.” And when I found out the lawsuit was ready and filed almost immediately after the termination I knew there was more to the team story than I was hearing. A lawsuit like that doesn’t get put together in a short period of time. It was in the works for a while.
Personally, I just think Orrin and them started something they need to try and find a way to make go away so they come move into their new business peacefully. He’s built a big business and has the potential to do the same thing with his leadership development business. But if he’s going to try to use the Diamonds millions to fight a corporation that has billions, I don’t think his money will last as long, even if all the Diamonds pitch in.
From the very beginning my contention was he should have taken his six months and let everything go away. By not doing that I wonder if he has given Quixtar the same attitude many team people have…..when they fall, give in….Quixtar will stop?
October 23rd, 2007 at 9:16 pm
Back on topic..
Any further word on the Judge’s ruling?
October 23rd, 2007 at 9:21 pm
Figures don’t lie, but liars sure can figure…..I don’t think it has been mentioned on this blog, that ALL of the profits from the Woodward/Brady blockbuster book(now available in any bookstore) have gone to charity. This includes the sign-on money and all the of the proceeds brought in this past weekend from the sale of the book. The book was the only thing promoted throughout the entire weekend. Yeah, it’s a scam.
October 23rd, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Bridgett 17
We are talking about multi-million dollar IBOships which are WILLABLE(except Q can terminate you at any time with haste.)
That means the legacy of children that aren’t even born yet are affected if Quixtar lets you literally and figuratively tear the business apart.(except Q is gonna do that all by themselves.)
And what happens to the reputation affects ALL IBOs around the world. (they should have thought about that when Q called us their property!!!)
And you think Quixtar is just going to let you walk (and try to walk all over them) without a fight? (Get a clue, Altcor wants to go mainstream and getting us to Quit of our own volition is the best way to do so.)
why else do you think they have test product lines in retail stores all over the country?
October 23rd, 2007 at 9:44 pm
I belive tex is defnatlie bieng payd and oviously luvs teling othr pple how bad thire spalling is why dont he looke at his one.
October 23rd, 2007 at 9:49 pm
John, #290 - I’ve little experience with WWDB but I think I could pretty much guarantee they don’t have 50,000 people “on Core”. But even if they did, let’s look at your logic. You’re claiming the “tools expenses” would exceed the bonuses. So? Bonuses is only 1 income. Step 3 of WWDB Core is “Retail clients”. You claim $250/mth on BSM expenses (a joke as far expenses for a business go, really) well - 10 Double X customers and you’ve close to covered that, even ignoring bonuses.
Ignoring that income isn’t the only thing you ignore. You also claim all this money “goes into the pockets” of the upline leaders. Which ignores all the expenses. So you’ve done the double whammy. Ignored income when talking about IBOs, and ignored expenses when talking about the BSM suppliers.
Nice trick.
Profit = income - expenses. For IBOs to be profitable they have to control both, and even at full “core” and throwing in travel expenses etc, the expenses to run a Quixtar business are trivial compared to conventional businesses. Make the money to cover it, it’s really not that hard.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:02 pm
I was speaking of Jody Victor
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:06 pm
Tex give it up you are a loser. But I still think that you should go out and start your own business. You have all the answers start your own company.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:50 pm
#316 Fig:
Sorry, I don’t buy the whole charity thing.
They’ve got an expensive attourney and PR firm to pay.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:55 pm
#317 Ben:
Where did you hear that they have test product lines in retail stores all over the country?
Wait… lemme guess. You heard it from someone in team, right?
It’s untrue, just so ya know.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Chan Man #302,
Mate, that was really bad form. Leaders aren’t out for revenge. You cannot contractually go after Quixtar people. If you get something better than Quixtar, you don’t need their IBOs. There’s a big world out there. None of the TEAM leaders that I have encountered are making statements like you did. It’s not our place to punish Quixtar for what we feel they have done wrong.
Take the high road, bro. They’ve already likely lost more than 20,000 IBO’s and $100 million in sales over the next year.
All TEAM people should follow the advice of 312. It’s time to get over the yelling contest with Tex and go be leaders.
This site is not about leadership so let’s leave it and prepare to lead.
Winston Churchill said, “Let our advance worrying become advance thinking and planning.”
The first step in Leading according to “Launching the Leadership Revolution” is “learning”. Let’s do advance thinking and planning, lets think about leading.” That won’t happen here.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:31 pm
#324 rico (the other one):
“…lets think about leading.”
Or following, as the case may be.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:34 pm
It’s true……all the profits from Launching a Leadership Revolution book goes to charity. This is not an opinion, it’s a fact.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:50 pm
For all of you that have pondered Orrin’s motives for the lawsuit…I think it is pretty clear in the filed declaration that he had been working with Quixtar for approximately 3 years about bringing down the prices. The IBOAI was assured over and over that they were “working on that”. Because Orrin and the rest of the IBOAI board believed their business partners (Quixtar), they kept building, knowing that the unfulfilled promise of lower prices would be made good. The Q executives announced this spring to the IBOA that lowering prices doesn’t fit into their business model” and in fact they were inching the prices up and lowering the PV. This was a BIG broken promise and broken trust from Quixtar. The name change announcement made things clear that Quixtar/Alticor/Amway was not interested in working with the board for what’s best for the IBO. The past few months have revealed that lying to cover their bad decisions DOES fit in their business model. The court documents also show that the termination came after the plaintiffs involved requested the 6 month waiting period to seperate from a partner that lies. They never asked for anything special or more than what was offered to any IBO.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:53 pm
toomuchtex #293, etc.
Thanks! I needed that smile!!
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:54 pm
GirlPower #305,
Chan Man is the designated grave digger for the TEAM coffin.
janedoe #306,
Getting more results from having them buy the products and making it mandatory (against the rules) are two different things. Typical Orrinite thinking, however.
Amway Realist #307,
See response to janedoe, above. Ditto.
john #308/9,
Bub-bye, tool scam supporter.
If you’re not MLM, why have Orrinites posted on freetheibo how concerned they are when others resigned, as their downline may not be their upline?
dannie #310,
This was not written by a “maverick” IBO, it was written by the CEO of Legacy, and Ron was obviously involved in very high level discussions when he wrote this letter and was apparently present when Orrin blackmailed Quixtar on August 9th. I don’t know how widespread this problem was, but you are underestimating the importance of who wrote these words.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:54 pm
#326 Fig:
How can you substantiate that fact? What charity? Can this charity be contacted to confirm?
October 24th, 2007 at 12:11 am
AEM #311,
I believe you are right, I sit corrected. I think I was recalling some earlier arguing regarding termination versus resignations. They were all terminated, and the bottom line is they are thankfully GONE.
G #312,
Bub-bye. It would be great to get TEAM off of this blog, then we can get back to the “heavy lifting” of getting rid of the rest of the lying cowardly “kingpins”.
TMR #313,
Bub-bye.
freedom #314,
Sometimes silence says volumes, doesn’t it?
whatever #315,
Why don’t you check Orrin’s freetheibo site? You know, the one with all the up to date court documents, that are over a month behind?
Fig #316,
And you don’t think that was a calculated sympathy move? I saw right through that PR stunt.
ben #317,
We are talking about multi-million dollar IBOships which are WILLABLE(except Q can terminate you at any time with haste.) —- If you break the rules.
That means the legacy of children that aren’t even born yet are affected if Quixtar lets you literally and figuratively tear the business apart.(except Q is gonna do that all by themselves.) —- Only if you break the rules.
And what happens to the reputation affects ALL IBOs around the world. (they should have thought about that when Q called us their property!!!) —- Ever hear of an analogy?
And you think Quixtar is just going to let you walk (and try to walk all over them) without a fight? (Get a clue, Altcor wants to go mainstream and getting us to Quit of our own volition is the best way to do so.) —- Got some evidence?
why else do you think they have test product lines in retail stores all over the country? —- Name the products, locations, and store names.
October 24th, 2007 at 12:16 am
Mary Ann #328
Yor’re welcome.
Just trying to explain the phenom. New people have to experience guys like that to learn to avoid them; they’re time-wasters.
October 24th, 2007 at 12:22 am
#263 Tex - a lot of it for him was pursuing excellence in his life. He said he made it on time to his 8am class for the first time and deleted a bunch of time wasters from his computer such as games. He has started reading again and you can hear a new passion in his voice for serving people.
By normal I mean the prices are the same as if I purchased the tools at a bookstore. The prices aren’t jacked up higher than normal like the hot dogs and hamburgers.
I could tell that Orrin and gang actually read these tools over and over. They weren’t asking me to do anything that they haven’t done themselves. Had they just gotten up there and sold me a bunch of XS and meal bars; I don’t believe we would even have a crowd or have changed my brother’s life.
More people need to make millions off getting this information into people’s hands. It is high time that people with morals and integrity benefit from distributing leadership information rather than the bookstores that profit off everything from leadership books to porn magazines.
Everyone else - quiet confidence gang
October 24th, 2007 at 12:31 am
ibofb #319,
John, #290 - I’ve little experience with WWDB but I think I could pretty much guarantee they don’t have 50,000 people “on Core”. —- Sounds like a reasonable number to me. Don Wilson claimed he had 60,000 going to monthly seminars.
But even if they did, let’s look at your logic. You’re claiming the “tools expenses” would exceed the bonuses. So? Bonuses is only 1 income. Step 3 of WWDB Core is “Retail clients”. You claim $250/mth on BSM expenses (a joke as far expenses for a business go, really) well - 10 Double X customers and you’ve close to covered that, even ignoring bonuses. —- The issue isn’t comparing the costs to other businesses, the issue is the MA$$IVE profit created, which determines the priorities of the upline, the tool scam. It’s not easy to get 10 customers paying wholesale for Double X, let along full retail.
Ignoring that income isn’t the only thing you ignore. You also claim all this money “goes into the pockets” of the upline leaders. Which ignores all the expenses. So you’ve done the double whammy. Ignored income when talking about IBOs, and ignored expenses when talking about the BSM suppliers. —- You ignored the expenses of the IBO’s to travel to the functions, the hotels, the tickets, rental cars, airline tickets, etc.
Nice trick. —- Ditto.
Profit = income - expenses. For IBOs to be profitable they have to control both, and even at full “core” and throwing in travel expenses etc, the expenses to run a Quixtar business are trivial compared to conventional businesses. Make the money to cover it, it’s really not that hard. —- For IBO’s to be profitable, they have to reject the lying cowardly “kingpins”. You made the same lame comparison to other business, apples and oranges. I have NEVER seen a plan that indicates the “first fruits” of the new IBO’s business will be transferred to the upline, in return for their tool scam “help”. Get a clue. Better yet, go back to your Commie web site and smooch with all your pals.
Ben #320,
You need to reference your previous message, I am not going to look up a stray comment.
Mick #321,
Give it up you are a loser. But I still think that you should go out and start picking your nose. You have all the answers to do that.
rico #324,
Bub-bye.
Fig #327,
For all of you that have pondered Orrin’s motives for the lawsuit…I think it is pretty clear in the filed declaration that he had been breaking Quixtar rules for about 6 years. A business transformation was announced earlier this summer, and included bringing down the prices. The IBOAI was assured over and over that they were “working on that”. Because Orrin and the rest of the IBOAI board believed their business partners (Quixtar), they kept tool scamming, knowing that they were getting filthy rich on tool profits.
The Q executives announced this spring to the IBOAI that lowering prices doesn’t fit into their business model and in fact they were inching the prices up and lowering the PV? —- Do you have a reference for this statement?
This wasn’t a BIG broken promise and broken trust from Quixtar. The name change announcement made things clear that Quixtar/Alticor/Amway was not interested in working with the board for what’s best for the IBO, because it is clear the IBOAI is primarily thinking about furthering their tool scam, not helping the IBO’s. The past few months have revealed that lying to cover their bad decisions DOES fit in their tool scam business model. The court documents also show that the termination came after the plaintiffs involved requested the 60 day waiting period to seperate from a partner that expects TEAM to follow the rules. They blackmailed Quixtar for several special favors and much more than what was offered to any IBO under the rules.
You are seriously misinformed.
Mary Ann #328,
It’s been a while. How are things going for you in the insane asylum?
October 24th, 2007 at 12:51 am
#317 ben said, “(except Q can terminate you at any time with haste.)”
Response, “They sure can terminate you but not with haste. Orrin was an arse breaking the rules for six YEARS.
Oh, by the way, Orrin asked for the termination. Remember? He resigned. Wanting a lame Amical Separation Agreement (ya know, again, making up his own damn rules rather than following the rules for resignation).
Did you forget those little details, sweetheart?”
October 24th, 2007 at 12:53 am
Tex,
In reading your response in 252 to mine in 244, at first I was reminded that imitation is the highest form of flattery. Then I realized, how stupid of me, that is not flattery. Just another of your methods to get under someone’s skin, and lure them into the cesspool of vitriol and caustic argumentative that you have perfected. Not me Tex. You will have to dig much deeper to get under my skin. It is disheartening to see you disrespect the Scripture as you did, though. You know much less about me that I do you. I have been watching you for a while now. You are a hard case indeed my friend.
October 24th, 2007 at 1:03 am
GirlPower, you may want to check out Emmaus Road Ministries or Charity in Michigan, not arms-length from TEAM. Connection with one of TEAM’s series of “spiritual” CD subscriptions. I don’t know this for sure, would need someone who knows to confirm. They may indeed have valid charity projects to which they will direct the money, but I question how truly “arms-length” they are if it is in fact Emmaus Road. I could be wrong, and am ready to be corrected by anyone who knows more.
October 24th, 2007 at 1:08 am
John,
In post #290 you mentioned several systems where the cost per person was estimated at $250/month.
I am not in the systems you mentioned but I have a friend of mine at my work who is. I talked to him today and he said his yearly system costs for he and his wife are less than $100/month. He felt like he got great value for he and his wife at that price.
I just wanted to mention that to you because of the estimate you had in your post (#290)
October 24th, 2007 at 1:32 am
IBO Fightback (#319),
First, $250 per month may not be much for business expense but the truth is that they get nothing for their $250 (except encouragement to spend another $250 the next month on more CDs, books and functions. Selling anything at retail is a joke. That is why WWDB came out with the grand idea of “paying retail to yourself”. Then you can use the profit (you made from yourself) to buy more tools. This is their words, not mine. Exactly what expenses do the kingpins have. A CD replication costs 50 cents (IBO pays for shipping and $7). That means the CD retials for about 14X the wholesale cost. That is an absurd profit margin gained off of young people who are trying to get by. Not much of an expense for the kingpin. Portland Rose Garden rents for less than $65,000 a night X 3 nights for FED is $195,000. Throw in a meal for the 15,000 in attendance at $20 per meal is another $300,000. Add anpther $50,000 for incidentals and the total expenses for FED is about $545,000. Now charge the IBOs (yes the single moms, college kids and struggling dads) $150 a piece and you get $2,250,000. After expenses, that is about $1.7 million proift for a weekend. That diesn’t include all the CDs that are peddled, the CDs of the FED you just attended sent to your mailbox as a Standing order. Then you go do another FED in another city. If the kingpins wern’t making insane profits for the functions, CDs, etc, they would not be doing them. Yet they say CORE is necessary to success. Isn’t it their job and responsibility to train and motivate their downline. However, without the profits form tools, they would never be able to do it. This attests to the fact that the Quixtar business opportunity is not sustainable without extra outside income. People are being hurt.
October 24th, 2007 at 2:44 am
IBOFightBack #275
Agree. agree. AGREE.
October 24th, 2007 at 3:09 am
Hi IBOFB - #276
I am trying to say 2 things: if you isolate the BSM business, and let it *stand on its own feet*, you have a very “hazy” product. While the BSM supplier will definitely argue that there is no requirement to buy BSM, the case can very easily be argued that you only sell BSM, therefor you are required to make the purchase if you want to join. And the only way to make money, is to get others to do the same. I have no doubt that many lawyers will be able to convince a judge of the latter. Especially, if as is the case with TEAM, there is no product component. And with TiF, there was clearly a pyramid structure in the way the BSM starter packs were organised.
Secondly, A/Q is definitely not a pyramid. And as long as the tools remain Business *Support* Materials, there will be no problem. But as the income stream from BSM grows, and as the *requirement* for BSM gets stressed more, and when the BSM income stream starts to get promoted - at some stage you are going to cross the line.
In my opinion A/Q has through the years steadfastly refused to have tool income disclosed as part of the business income - because it is not part of the business income. It is, and should remain, incidental.
If the tail starts wagging the dog, sombody will cut off the tail.
October 24th, 2007 at 5:11 am
TEAM focus:how to build business principles for life.
quixtar focus:how to sell my products and pay my life style.
tEx focus:EAT 1 PROTEIN BAR AND DRINK 2.
my focus:02/08 only TEAM knows
October 24th, 2007 at 5:59 am
Tex
You must have been tired when you read my post…
those “required” products that you all are talking about… were not mandatory; highly encouraged, but not mandatory.
(I used ” ” because you were all stating “required”)
October 24th, 2007 at 8:26 am
Tex #334,
You said, “It’s not easy to get 10 customers paying wholesale for Double X, let along full retail.”
You can say that again. I believe there’s a rule somewhere about requiring customers. Perhaps it would work better if customers could actually afford double-x.
By the way, did you mean alone? and not along?
hehe
October 24th, 2007 at 9:24 am
janedoe - my upline dimond sent out a voice com that said “no one is to be signed up on the TEAM unless they purchase the TEAM product pack.” This was put out the same time that all new IBO forms had to be processed by the upline platium. Sorry I do not have that voice com recorded I wish I did.
Tex- I like your comments and find most of them insightful. Please remember some TEAM members are still looking for information and leadership. You stand out very strong.
October 24th, 2007 at 9:59 am
Passion4Christ #333,
You talked of “pursuing excellence”, “he made it on time to his 8am class for the first time”, “and deleted a bunch of time wasters”, “started reading again” (started reading again in college, that’s a concept), “a new passion in his voice”, and “serving people”, but I thought Quixtar is a business, and isn’t the prime directive of a business to make money? You didn’t even remotely imply making money was involved.
That’s the point, you can’t buy these tools in a bookstore, and you surely don’t buy them in the quantity being taught by the upline. The prices ARE jacked up higher than normal like the hot dogs and hamburgers, plus they want you to “eat” them for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
You could tell that Orrin and gang actually read these tools over and over? Of course they did, they got scammed, and decided they would scam others.
They weren’t asking you to do anything that they haven’t done themselves? That’s right, they decided to crate a scam of their own.
Had they just gotten up there and sold me a bunch of XS and meal bars; I don’t believe we would even have a crowd or have changed my brother’s life. —- There’s nothing wrong with the other things, but this business is shown at Open meetings about making money on products. The problem is the other things have BECOME the main business and source of profit.
More people need to make millions off getting this information into people’s hands. It is high time that people with morals and integrity benefit from distributing leadership information rather than the bookstores that profit off everything from leadership books to porn magazines. —- Sounds like words right out of Orrin’s mouth. I don’t have an issue with making money in this manner, as long as it isn’t a bait and switch like the lying cowardly “kingpins” do to their so called “business partners” and “teammates”.
Everyone else - quiet confidence gang —- Now you sound like Saddam.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:14 am
#305 Girlpower
Ummm, what? By saying we are not mlm implies that we are? I am not a woman must mean I am in the process of getting a sex change by your logic. The sun in not blue. What color does that make the sun, blue? Boris Yeltsin is not the president of the U.S. nor has he ever been. Does that mean Hillary is droping out? Does fuzzy logic tickle?
October 24th, 2007 at 10:18 am
#311
Please do not try to convince Tex of facts or to be friendly with him. He has an opinion and no amount of facts or discussion will change that. We have the facts, he has the opinions.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:25 am
#314 Freedom
Thank you for that post, professional and polite. If more people acted as you do we would not be having these problems right now. I would love to talk with you in detail about the situation, not to woo you over but to solve these problems or at least disagree on the solutions but disagree with friendship and respect.
My parents, when I started the business, told me not to because the people in it were rude, opinionated, stubborn, cruel, and the least friendly they have ever seen. Tex is proving them right, you are proving them wrong. I wish you all the success in the world because I really don’t want anyone in the future to come to me and say “weren’t you in that same business as the rude crude insulting guy named tex?” I would much rather them say “weren’t you in that same business as freedom? Why in the world would you quit that? He is the best guy in the world, even when we disagree!!”
Again, thank you for your post.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:31 am
Bridgett #335,
He didn’t forget those “details”, he just ignored them.
Rick #336,
I’m glad you “got it”, it was not intended to be flattery. You haven’t gone back far enough, because when I started blogging over 2 years ago, I tried for a long time to be “nice”, but soon found out the other bloggers had zero interest in a factual discussion, whether they were pro-A/Q, anti-A/Q, pro-Tool Scam, or anti-Tool Scam. So I adjusted my approach to push back just to keep from getting attacked and coming off as having nothing meaningful to say. If that gets under your skin, so be it.
It is disheartening to see me disrespect the Scripture as I did? How did you come to this conclusion, Einstein? Do you have an issue with my “righteous indignation” analogy?
You’re right I know much less about you than you do me. I also know much more about the tool scam than you do. I have been watching it for a while now. It is a hard case indeed.
And I am not your “friend”, in case you or anyone else is confused over that term.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:56 am
john jay franklin #309
The FTC v Amway case legitimized mlm by finding that it was not an illegal pyramid. The rules used to make that finding determine if something is an illegal pyramid or not, not whether it is an mlm or not. Having services or products is only part of the equation. Delivering those services or products to an end consumer that is not a member of the organization is another part of it. How does Team meet that standard, mlm or not?
fig #327
If you really believe that..WOW. I never knew that everyone leaving Quixtar asked to have the terms of their agreement waived and take all of their organization with them. According to you, though, they have.
To others, any requirement to purchase products in order to join is also, I believe, a violation of anti-pyramid rules. So, if Team has been requiring purchases as some have said, they are the true pyramid.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:02 am
There is an organized and concerted effort underway by T**M to destroy Amway, including communication with sympathetic Democratic legislators, administrative agencies, attorneys general and private watchdog organizations.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:06 am
The proceeds from the book will be going to Allgrace Outreach. It is documented on the book jacket cover. The authors had decided long before all of this happened that their proceeds would go to charity.
Mark from #345 said “my upline dimond sent out a voice com that said “no one is to be signed up on the TEAM unless they purchase the TEAM product pack.” This was put out the same time that all new IBO forms had to be processed by the upline platium. This was the suggested policy because if people weren’t willing to buy product that they were going to use then they weren’t going to do anything with the business either and it would have been a big waste of time/money for them. There are plenty of other organizations out there that just got fired up over “signups”. The Team Platinums were processing the registration paperwork to make sure all of the i’s were dotted and t’s crossed in accordance to Quixtar’s desires. We had been doing hard copy registrations for a couple of years.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:08 am
339 John, you can’t possibly be that naive are you? First of all, we live in the United States it was founded on free enterprize, nobody is forced to buy anything unless they chose too. It is about value and the value is an individual decision my son collects baseball cards and to him the value of them is great even if he couldn’t make a dime on them, however I have never got into collecting them and the value to me is zero even if he had some famous guy’s rookie ment condition card. Here are some prices for you. taken from bigspeak.com Ken Blanchard $40,000+ for 3 hours, Suze Orman 40,000+ that is to get the speakers. now lets talk about consumer pricing. John Mellencamp 1 day, 1 concert freedom hall louisville,ky $82, motivatial Cd’s E-myth $27.96 at barnes and noble. So tell me how is it that a function is less than a 100 bucks, Cd’s are 6. and the books are on average 50 cents to a dollar less than you can get them at the online price of barnes and nobel the store price is much higher. With that in mind The team never has had a policy not to sponsor people that didn’t want to buy the tools, however it would seem highly stupid for a car salesman to sell a car to someone that refuses to put gas in it, it would seem to me that If i had a product for sell and knew that if someone didn’t buy the companion product the primary product wouldn’t work that would be a dis-service. To show this I used to work at Radio Shack, we sold remote control cars at Christmas, without fail Grandma would come in to buy a rc car for their grand kid on average it cost around $60 however they didn’t want to spend the extra $45 to buy the batteries for it to work, and you guessed it on the day after Christmas the kids were mad they didn’t have a gift that worked. As a sales person, I didn’t not force the people to buy the batteries but I explained to them the product would not work with out it. I ask you to show me anyone, just one person, that has built a business,Quixtar or otherwise, without having the tools. Quixtar is a people buisness, you can’t build a people buisness without people skills, just as you can’t build a house with out nails. All that is said for reasoning the cost but when you take out all the commonsence to the tool cost, again I go back to we live in America, we have the ablilty to create, and sell products in the free enterprize world and with doing that we have the right and should make money(profit) My mentors are great people but why should they help me build my business for free?
October 24th, 2007 at 11:10 am
pvbvguy #338,
What is included in the $100/month? I doubt he can do the web site, voice mail, CD’s, books, Opens, Seminars, and Major Functions (especially travel/lodging costs) for $100/month.
Also, do you know which system he uses?
John #339,
Although I agree with most of what you said, why is the business not sustainable at the levels of income shown in the marketing plan, assuming the tools are sold to provide for covering costs and a reasonable profit (reasonable to Rich DeVos was 20% of A/Q income)? Doing this would reduce the tool cost substantially.
Piet #340,
I’m still here, “buddy”.
Piet #341,
Your first paragraph made no sense to me, can you restate it?
The tail has been wagging the dog for decades. That was Rich’s point in 1983 and virtually nothing has been done about it, except in the UK. Now that the “secret” is out, it makes even less sense to deny the truth. Therefore, reduce tool prices so the dog is wagging the tail again. You can’t just not talk about something that is true to make it okay.
TEAM_MEX #342,
Warning: The cliff ahead is closer than it appears.
janedoe #343,
The products were effectively required, as the new IBO would get little to no support if the prospect didn’t “jump in” and buy the products and the tools.
Brad #344,
There’s a rule requiring customers, but it doesn’t have to be Double X at full retail. Perhaps it would work better if customers could choose from some of the other hundreds of thousands of products.
By the way, did you mean alone? and not along? —- Yes, I did. Just checking if you’re really reading and paying attention.
hehe
mark #345,
Thanks, I also have the plan and the tool resources to execute what I am talking about. I am in discussions with Quixtar to do just that.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:22 am
Tex / Girl Power #330/331
I have been in Team for 18 months. The contracts with the publisher had just been signed when I came in.
The first announcement we got about it stated that ALL profits were going to charity. Please don’t come up with some off the wall reason why Orrin/Chris needed sympathy that long ago.
None of this had happened and they were still assuming that changes were coming from Q.
I don’t remember the name of the charity. But I know someone else who’s posting here will have a better memory. It was just announced again at Louisville. You guys truly don’t believe that there are any people out there in Team who have any decency about them, do you ? Why would you think we would lie about this or that the authors would ? It can so easily be verified.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:54 am
Back in February of this year Diamonds Doug Stroh and his wife blessed the InterBIZ stage in Kitchener, Ontario to roll out the S.T.E.P./DOT1 program for Casey Combden’s Canadian Leadership.
They stressed to just sip twice and eat a bar a day and you will go DIAMOND…..he even stated that ” when I show the plan and presented the application to the prospect, if they weren’t willing to do the S.T.E.P/DOT1 then the application was taken away from that prospect”. I did not record this but I’m not that old that my ears did not hear him say this.
InterBIZ then told us all to go home on Monday and do the DITTO order right away and teach everyone we bring in the same thing. I immediately had some reservations to this and actually have not made it a requirement (or encouragement for those who want to differentiate between mandatory and required).
It was obvious that InterBIZ was starting to follow the TEAM concept. We were using their cd’s, on our Standing Order System, their Starter Pack cd’s, Depth Building cd’s..There was even rumours (I know, I know- a rumour is just a rumour), that we were joing TEAM. Can’t really answer that cause I have no FACTS. I do know that InterBIZ was not breaking any new silvers, platinums and above and in fact numbers were going down….
Well guess what the numbers are really going down now since Orrin pulled his latest caper in August.
Near the end of that weekend all the individual teams got together and a DATA CAPTAIN was assigned to look after all new applications and he would strategically place them in the LOS as the regisrations came in. This sounded like “stacking” to me. In a way I’m glad Orrin and TEAM did what they did only because I think now that Q/A will trample the BSM Groups into submission. I’m not against Personal and Professional Development but I am against high pins letting on they make all their money from the Quixtar/Amway business and if you don’t get on the Training System and attend everything, then you are a loser…
There are no loser’s in this business only quitters and I am a winner….
October 24th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
As I stated before, I have extensive experience in this business..I made alot of money, spoke before alot of people, dealt with alot of the leaders and have been on the inside where alot of you haven’t been, for many years, therefore feel like I have the credibility to speak on this subject. I am not taking sides, just pointing out my experience…
- When Woodward and Co. started their depth building plan, my upline diamond started raiding my outside legs to move people around into the one main leg they were building. At first, it really didn’t make a difference, but then they started to move active people which started to have an effect on my residuals, money that I earned through years of hard work, following the plan that these same leaders preached of retiring and having a lifetime income. When I started refusing to sign the transfer papers, certain leadership (the same leadership that is now with TEAM) became overly, almost scaringly irate, to the point that they were literally stalking me. I went to the corporation with my concerns(my next stop was the police), and obviously you know the rest of the story as I was one of many who just wanted everyone to play by the rules that had been in place for many years. So how do you think I feel with what’s going on ?
- Don’t kid yourself that TEAM is not in place to made a ton of money from the system. I will say that investing in CDs, books and functions definitely had a positive effect on my life, as I put to use what I learned in the business and in life. However, there is a TREMENDOUS profit to be made. How do you think Woodward and Co. got these leaders to drop their A/Q businesses, yet maintain their lifestyles ? You’d have to be blind not to figure out that these guys are making huge profits on their system..I’ve been told by some friends I have on the inside what these guys are making on the system and speaking and I promise it would stagger you..But it’s business, and if you’re okay with that and putting what you learn to good use, and can afford the investment, great. But I can tell you that as this gets bigger, within the leadership,greed will come into play..it always does.
- My other concern was the deceit tactics used by TEAM initially in their depth strategy in the A/Q business. When they were “stacking”, the were having forms signed that stated that the new distributors knew and were familiar with their sponsors. When I started investigating this, I found out that this was literally not the case. A small point, yes, but to me, any sign of integrity went out the window. Even though they tried to downplay those actions as minor, I have always believed that whether it’s shoplifting a candy bar or robbing a bank, it’s still stealing.
I stated before, and I will repeat..this is a business to these guys. They are smart business people and see a huge profit to be made in the tools/functions. Some of them are good people, whose hearts are in the right place. Some are not. They are pros at inspiring people. If you are inspired enough to motivate yourself to succeed, it’s a good investment. But the fact is, most people won’t follow through. TEAM leadership doesn’t care as long as there is a good cash flow. Trust me, I know, I’ve been there..Good Luck
October 24th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
john #347,
I’m satisfied you’re not anything right now. However, there are Orrinites on the freetheibo who are concerned about their “position”, because some of their downline quit before they did, and can join Orrin’s new scam sooner, assuming the 6 month time period isn’t extended, which I think is quite likely to happen.
john #348,
Please do not try to convince john of facts or to be friendly with him. He has an opinion and no amount of facts or discussion will change that. We have the facts, he has the opinions.
john #349,
You need to read #314 again, it is in no way describing what happened to him from his upline as “professional and polite”. Quite the opposite. He may have stated it in “nice” terms, but he was being lied to from his upline, pure and simple.
If you knew me in real life you wouldn’t have a clue I am Tex, so I’m not concerned about what the Orrinites, other lying cowardly “kingpins”, or their supporters think about me.
BK #351,
As explained to me by the Q rules department, they consider the IBO’s customers, and those making tool profits as an MLM. Therefore, overall the tools are an MLM, and all IBO’s not getting paid are customers.
john #352,
So much for honor and integrity, let alone following their court order.
Lynn #353,
Does Allgrace Outreach have a web site?
Do you realize requiring a prospect to do more than pay the sign up fee is against the rules, regardless of the later outcome for their business? Perhaps the prospect is a little more cautious and needs more time to check into the products and tools. What you did was screen out those who wanted to think before they jumped, and created a bunch of testosterone fueled Orrinites. Also, the “crossing t’s and dotting i’s is code speak for inappropriate stacking.
October 24th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
Chris #354,
You obviously haven’t been paying attention. If I ask you specific questions about this long-winded post, would you commit to answering them?
dannie #356,
I never said Orrin didn’t plan on giving the book profits to charity, I question his motives. He has been planning a split from Quixtar for a very long time, you can understand this if you listen to the TEAM CD’s, and attended the Opens and Seminars with this in mind.
Canadian IBO #357,
Well put, again.
Skynyrd77 #358,
Ditto.
October 24th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
Tex #286
Tex says:
I don’t have TexSpin, I have TexFacts (actually, just plain facts, but if you want to play that game, so be it). I think entire product lines had their prices reduced in he UK. The U.S. has seen new products where prices were reduced, and the Daily vitamin price was reduced recently, along with the large containers of XS syrup. Also, the new products are very fairly and competitively priced, although not technically a “reduction”. There is probably more to come. You lose.
I was kidding about getting “paid by the blog”, in response to repeatedly being asked that question, I got tired of answering it, so I answered to make the question go away by telling them what they wanted to hear. Nobody pays me to blog, unless you consider the future success of my Amway business as payment. Get a grip.
Let’s break this down shall we.
Tex Says:
“I don’t have TexSpin, I have TexFacts (actually, just plain facts, but if you want to play that game, so be it).”
TexSpin you have opinion, and lots of it.
Tex says:
“I think entire product lines had their prices reduced in he UK.”
“I think”…again, opinion not fact. The UK prices were reduced on 12 products only not the “entire line”.
Tex says:
“The U.S. has seen new products where prices were reduced, and the Daily vitamin price was reduced recently, along with the large containers of XS syrup.”
These prices were reduced because they’re not moving. XS syrup never was a big seller.
Tex says:
“Also, the new products are very fairly and competitively priced, although not technically a “reduction”.
Again, more opinion. “very fairly and competitively priced”. The snow’s pretty deep and it’s only October.
Tex says:
“There is probably more to come. You lose.”
Not exactly fact here either Tex.
Tex says:
“I was kidding about getting “paid by the blog”, in response to repeatedly being asked that question, I got tired of answering it, so I answered to make the question go away by telling them what they wanted to hear. Nobody pays me to blog, unless you consider the future success of my Amway business as payment. Get a grip.”
Translation: “I voted for the blog payment before I voted against it.”
Good luck with your business Tex I’m sure that your customers and downline like your PMA.
Keep up the spinning, you’re the best.
By the way how much per blog do you get paid anyway?
October 24th, 2007 at 1:00 pm
#347 john jay franklin:
Please tell me that you’re not so obtuse that you don’t see what Chan is saying. Let me repeat it for you. “I see Quixtar going from 1.1 Billion to 750 Million in North American Sales Real Soon. Looking forward to gathering as much of their loss as possible.”
Q is an MLM business. How would Chan be benefiting from any loss from an MLM unless he had his own MLM?
Thankyouverymuch.
October 24th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Skynyrd77 #358,
Great information!! I appreciate your insights.
Thank you!
October 24th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
#356 dannie:
OK, then verify it. Even before they created all this trouble I’m sure they have been orchestrating their “houlier than thou” image for quite some time. How else would they get so many of you to blindly follow them?
Sorry, dannie, I’m not buyin’ it.
October 24th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Since when do you think that even ONE of us would stand for our Plats putting people ANYWHERE but where they belonged ? Thatw ould affect us financially and it would NOT be tolerated. Do you think we’d all be so stupid that we would not NOTICE people being put in weird places ?
So at this point, you’ve lost all credibility with us. You don’t want to believe that tool profits are shared in the most equitable fashion possible ? Fine, but don’t expect me to believe that my upline has or will ever do what you’ve said they do.
Stacking is nothing more than I sponsor my neighbor next door and then sponsor my good friend who lives in Oklahoma and put him directly under the neighbor. The neighbor is thrilled that someone is willing to help him get his first few people in the business and the same thing gets passed on. He may well put his brother ( who does NOT know my OK. friend ) in next…under my friend.
It’s a joke that you think EVERYONE on a team has to KNOW each other before they can be put into a LOS. Even Q stated that all stacking is not equal and if you are not IN Team, you don’t know what we were taught…the correct way is FINE !
October 24th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Tex #359
That may have been how Q explained it, but I fail to see how that complies with the tests applied by the courts in the past.
October 24th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Tex,
Once again you produce no facts and make an off the cuff opinion! There is no rule that says I have to sign up every person. I can require product purchase to the people I offer this business and I can refuse to place them on my team!!! That is well known fact to anyone in this business. Although I cannot deny them from Quixtar I can deny them from my LOS!! This DOT1 STEP your crying about wasn’t even an original team idea. There was a couple in another organization that did this all the way to diamond! So, please place your immature scorned date attitude where it truly belongs! You’re upset that you spend all day blogging and your business is shrinking around you because your people are tired of buying the over priced products. It is readily apparent you hide behind the tools so your people won’t really see how you’re shafting them! Anyone reading this blog has checked the pricing and knows it is ridiculous.
Skynyrd 77
Moving Ibo’s in the LOS has never been a practice of the Team! As a matter of fact, I had a group of IBO’s in depth on another IBO’S leg that wanted to move to me as their direct sponsor. The Team leadership told them no. I am sure what you experienced was your leadership trying to re-align your business to match the team approach idea. In the long run everyone in your downline would have made more money.
October 24th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
I’m not aware of a website for Allgrace currently. It is a new ministry, with an intention of providing training/materials for pastors and making materials available in areas where they are more difficult to find.
I may have misspoken about one thing. I’ve already given away my copy of the book (got to get some more) so I can’t check it. The book jacket did mention proceeds going to charity, not sure now if it specifically mentioned Allgrace Outreach. I know, though, that the plan was to donate proceeds to charity from the time the book was to be published for public availability. And I know that Orrin and Chris are not taking any proceeds that the authors of a book are normally paid.
No one was required to buy the product pack. They were always more than welcome to check everything out — go to the open, seminar, listen to materials. Any Team IBO with a business-focus would have been more than willing to provide product samples so they could check them out. When it came time to register, though, the Team has a recommended process that maximaized probablity of sucess and that the corporation was cool with. Prior to DOT1, we even had our own sku number for our product pack that was designed to give more PV/dollar. DOT1 provided a value focus (again more PV/competitive $$), although it’s advantages soon diminished as the products we focused on (XS/bars) became less competitive. If someone was not willing to buy products for themselves, how were they going to promote them to anyone else (prospects, new IBOs), so we just felt that Team was not the right atmosphere for that person. They were welcome to signup with Quixtar through someone else who did not mind looking at their “0″ until their name fell off. Now as we have seen, it is possible that someone within the Team LOA may not have handled something appropriately (whether accidently or purposefully) and that’s a shame. I can assure you that that is not what the Team leadership was teaching. They bent over backwards to comply with Quixtar’s concerns. I was in a meeting where Gary Vanderveen and Karen Axdorff compared our Team Approach to Stacking. They warned what to avoid to stay out of the “Stacking” realm. The Team office supplied helps to make sure we knew what to do to comply (e.g. making sure sponsors and new IBOs were introduced and new IBOs had contact info for upline). Those were the i’s and t’s to make sure stacking was not occurring. Now again, it’s possible and probable that someone was off course (Remember the old telephone game? Once someone is taught a little off process, it just keeps going into the weeds).
So was Amway breaking the rules years ago when I signed up? We registered via a product kit. We were not given an opportunity to register any other way.
October 24th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
John #352
The FBI and CIA and Mafia had a part of the Kennedy asassination, we never landed on the moon, the government was behind 911, Roosevelt knew Japan was going to bomb Pearl Harbor, and Churches Fried Chicken put ingrediants in to make African Americans lazy……..anymore conspiracy myths come to mind besides your post please let us all know.
October 24th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
John #352
Who is organizing it? I consider myself as being pretty close to the Team Leadership and no one has encouraged me to run out and disparage the company, resign or anything of that nature. The Democrats know how to look for information online, in the media, on corporate blogs, etc. They did not need the Team to fill them in. Now I have seen posts where people have stated that they are notifying government agencies — any proof that this is coming from the Team and not former IBOs disappointed in the actions of the company?
October 24th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
WOW what is going on in the world of Amway??? A must read…www.jerryandmandy.co.uk/
October 24th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Is Tex the moderator of this blog?
October 24th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Tex — I may be wrong, but I think Allgrace Outreach is a subset of Berean Baptist Church (www.allgrace.com) in Grand Blanc, MI. I’m only guessing since someone else mentioned Emmaus Road Ministries (which is apparently an audio series put out by Pastor Dickie of that church), and since it’s in MI . . . hasn’t that minister spoken for Woodward before?? Once again, I really am just guessing.
October 24th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Tex . . . well, I’m not too far off . . . Woodward & Brady both are considered elders at Berean Baptist (www.allgrace.com) / Allgrace Outreach. I’m guessing that is where the book proceeds are suppose to be going.
October 24th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
Chris (354) and Tex (335),
Chris, I apreciate your analogy and I love free enterprise. However, even in free enterprise there has to be some morality, standards and rules. For example, If I tell you that I live lavish luxury(a mansion, rolexes, 20 cars & millions in toys) because of my Quixtar business but in reality only 20% of my lifestyle is supported by Quixtar income - I have lied to you & I have committed fraud. Furthermore, if 80% of my income is from showing you how to do the business but I don’t tell you that honestly, I have lied to you again. This is what the kingpins do - they lie! They have every new IBO believing they have built their kingdoms on Quixtar income. And they tell these new IBOs they can do the same by being CORE. If CORE is so good and such a proven system of success, then why is there a 96.5% dropout rate within 5 years. That means that on average, 96.5% of Puryear’s downline drop out within 5 years. So what is he doing? He is certainly not duplicating (another lie). He is simply replacing those who wise up with new people who are searching. Why has WWDB and other LOS continually pumped Quixtar as the absolute business in the world when they have known that as a recent Quixtar article admits, “The name, Quixtar never caught on”. Free enterprise gives freedom to be enterprising - not freedom to lie commit fraud. It does not give freedom to take advantage of single moms and college kids. I know this first hand as I have heard the lies.
Tex - I greatly appreciate your thoughts & ideas. I contend there is not one single kingpin who would keep doing what he is doing if you take away the 80% of his income that comes from tools. I also believe they will not stay if you only take awsay 60% of their income which comes from tools. Look at the numbers in the Brig Hart lawsuit (over tools) ot Quixtar bonuses. Numbers like $200 million. At a million a year, he would have to draw from Q for 200 years. Let’s see what happens if Q takes Bill Britt’s, Dexter Yager’s and Ron Puryears tools businesses. I am pretty confident they will all do exactly what TEAM has done. Get out. And like TEAM, they were looking for freedom when they came in & they will be looking for freedom when they get out.
October 24th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
Tex 359,
In your answer to John #349 you said
“If you knew me in real life you wouldn’t have a clue I am Tex, so I’m not concerned about what the Orrinites, other lying cowardly “kingpins”, or their supporters think about me.”
Why is that? I may be misunderstanding something, so correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that you are different on this blog than you are in real life?
I don’t understand?
October 24th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
IBO To Go #361
Well said.
Hmm
http://www.jerryandmandy.co.uk/
October 24th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
John #375
You’re right, the profit in the “system” business is far too much for most people to understand. I was personally involved in discussions (arguments)about dividing “system” profit with fellow Emeralds and Diamonds, one of which was making in excess of 1 MILLION dollars a MONTH. That individual is now with TEAM so obviously they had good reason to move..And again,this is business,if that’s what someone can legally earn, great…I’m just sharing experiences. Is it right or wrong ? You have to make your own decisions
October 24th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
#360 Tex…my post was for John. No I will not commit to answering any of YOUR questions I don’t trust you and I belieive you work for amway.
#375 John, You are confused the members of the Team have never said they have ever made money from their “Quixtar” business They don’t have a quixtar business, never have, They own their own individual business that got products from Quixtar. Do you Think for a second that when you read the top 100 incomes that the devos’s and van andles have made all that money from quixtar, absolutly not quixtar provided a vehicle in which created income to invest in to other ventures, Did the Team tool buisnes always exist, no it was created when the “king pins” as you say created enough income through their own buisness with Quixtar products so when you skim all that back they actually did make all their money from quixtar.
October 24th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
#365 dannie:
So you really didn’t read read the Rules when you signed up did you? The CORRECT way is fine. Unfortunately, you were not taught the correct way.
October 24th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
janedo #306, Amway Realist #307. I know the reasoning behind the product pack purchase, and I certainly encourage it too, but the MLM case law is very clear on this. *Requiring* product purchase at startup and then paying the sponsor based on that purchase, despite it not having been ordered/sold to the “end user” means it may be a “defacto payment for recruiting”. MLMs have been shut down for this exact thing.
dannie #310, I’ve no doubt the “requirement” part was probably not across the board, but nevertheless there’s was many reports of it happening and Ron Simmons, while speaking on behalf of TEAM and writing to Quixtar, spoke of it as a part of the TEAM philosophy. I entirely agree with the other posters, from a business perspective it’s perfectly sensible. Nevertheless, MLM is judged somewhat differently to other businesses and this very issue is one that has had other businesses closed down. It was obviously happening within TEAM, and it was obvious that at least a significant portion of the leadership was promoting it.
October 24th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
FIG #327 - wow, you’re claiming TEAM just wanted the 6 month separation that every IBO has… umm, dude (or dudette) … don’t know where you’ve been, but there’s been a certain lawsuit in California that proves that claim completely false.
John #339 Your understanding of business works is sadly lacking. In most businesses the price of production (eg CD duplication) is one of the smallest line items. Ever heard of things like staffing? Office space? Accountants? Legal fees? Heck, electricity? etc etc etc etc etc. You did say one thing that was on the right track, though exaggerated - “If the kingpins wern’t making insane profits for the functions, CDs, etc, they would not be doing them.”.
Change it to “profits” from “insane profits” and you’d be closer to the mark. Why would they provide the service otherwise? Out of the goodness of their hearts? Once your a Diamond or two away from a “kingpin” they make virtually nothing on your Amway business - why should they spend their money helping you? And what about the enormous numbers of IBOs using “systems” where the system founders/owners aren’t even upline? When I joined Amway I did so with a group using n21 that wasn’t part of Dornan’s downline - so I was actually his competitor in the Amway business. And you expect him to spend money helping me develop my Amway business? Of course not.
October 24th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
Piet #341. You’re correct about the tail-wagging problem, which is why A/Q doesn’t want too much said about tools to new IBOs - it can potentially have problems.
However - there is nothing inherently illegal about an MLM scheme marketing leadership materials. It comes down to motivation for purchase. If folk are purchasing stuff to make money from the purchase itself, rather than it’s inherent worth, and then encouraging others to do the same, then you have an illegal pyramid. This is another thing there’s many reports of from within TEAM - folk buying Q* stuff purely to make bonuses. (There’s Orrin Woodwards infamous “bury it in the backyard” quote for example). Now, I have little doubt that happens in other organizations as well, but the reality is if you’re purchasing for reasons other than legitimate demand for the products, you’re in illegal pyramid territory.
In TEAMs current mode, if people are buying the leadership development material for it’s inherent worth, and I have little doubt it has inherent worth, then there *should* be no problem. Where a problem can arise is if this is challenged by regulators. How do you prove the products are being sold at a legitimate prices and have legitimate demand? From the TEAM affidavits, Q* can point to more than $50 million of sales to folk who have no potential vested interest in the money-earning side of things. TEAM will likely have no such evidence, making it much harder to defend if the FTC challenged them. That’s why outside customers are important - not to make something legal, but to make it easier to show it is legal.
October 24th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
Brad #344 - if someone told you building a profitable business (any business, not just this one) was “easy”, then complain to them, they mislead you.
October 24th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
Girlpower, were you or are you in Team?
October 24th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Chris (379),
If TEAM members owned their own business, then why are they now in court begging to be able to be released from a 6 month no compete. Why was TEAM leadership (according to their own court testimony) bringing a thousand new recruits into a company that they believed is an “illegal pyramid with overpriced products”? Now that is great leadership.
IBO Fightback (382) - You state my understanding of the business is “sadly lacking”. If you understand this business or any kingpin understands this business, then why not show everyone the truth. Why can’t one single kingpin or why can’t you open up and show everyone all of your books? Why not have a Puryear or Britt open their books & show the truth of how much they make from Quixtar and how much from tools. They will say their income is private. However, they have made it public by their outlandish lifestyle claims. Why can’t one single Amway/Quixtar just open their books and show the truth?
October 24th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
My LOA, according to Quixtar, is team.
I think I’ve shared before that my upline considers team to be family. I obviously don’t share that sentiment.
October 24th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
Tex, the last comment you submitted is a bit too much War and Peace, not quite enough USA Today… care to break it up or whittle it down?
October 24th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
GIRLPOWER #380
Get over it….Q/A allowed and even approved the Team building practices for years..even drawing up a specific diagram that showed what we were allowed to do. Explain that away.
WHY do you people keep acting like that was NOT allowed by the corporation ?
Read their OWN materials about it.
October 24th, 2007 at 9:40 pm
Amway UK & Ireland - IBS: The other side of the story
Over on the Alticor Media blog, in a post titled Why We Fight - Part I, Alticor has announced a new lawsuit against SIGNATURE MANAGEMENT TEAM, LLC d/b/a TEAM.
October 24th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
Lynn #368,
I’m not aware of a website for Allgrace currently. It is a new ministry, with an intention of providing training/materials for pastors and making materials available in areas where they are more difficult to find. —- Now THAT’S a great idea, a new Orrinite leadership/mentor training MLM program for the clergy. How could big bad Quixtar sue the men and women of the cloth? Good thinking, Orrin.
I may have misspoken about one thing. I’ve already given away my copy of the book (got to get some more) so I can’t check it. The book jacket did mention proceeds going to charity, not sure now if it specifically mentioned Allgrace Outreach. I know, though, that the plan was to donate proceeds to charity from the time the book was to be published for public availability. And I know that Orrin and Chris are not taking any proceeds that the authors of a book are normally paid. —- You mean like the proceeds for all of their previous books? Or the books they buy by the case at about 1/2 price and mark up to full retail price for their “business partners” and “teammates”? Are you guys setting me up intentionally on this stuff, it’s getting too easy? Or is the Moderator pretending to be you guys and pitching me the “hanging curve balls”?
No one was required to buy the product pack. They were always more than welcome to check everything out — go to the open, seminar, listen to materials. Any Team IBO with a business-focus would have been more than willing to provide product samples so they could check them out. When it came time to register, though, the Team has a recommended process that maximaized probablity of sucess and that the corporation was cool with. —- You need to read rule 8.5, provided above, to know what “the corporation was cool with”. The rules are their official “cool” criteria.
Prior to DOT1, we even had our own sku number for our product pack that was designed to give more PV/dollar. DOT1 provided a value focus (again more PV/competitive $$), although it’s advantages soon diminished as the products we focused on (XS/bars) became less competitive. —- I don’t recall much change in PV/BV for the XS bars. Do you have documentation of that?
If someone was not willing to buy products for themselves, how were they going to promote them to anyone else (prospects, new IBOs), so we just felt that Team was not the right atmosphere for that person. —- So what another Orrinite said above is confirmed. TEAM didn’t want to have anyone who wanted to think it through, you wanted only people who would commit immediately and fully. TEAM wanted a “master race” of IBO’s who would march to whatever tune Orrin decided to play.
They were welcome to signup with Quixtar through someone else who did not mind looking at their “0″ until their name fell off. —- You mean a non-TEAM LOS? How kind of you. Again, why not just stack them in and let their zero grow as you built depth under them?
Now as we have seen, it is possible that someone within the Team LOA may not have handled something appropriately (whether accidently or purposefully) and that’s a shame. —- What is a shame is everything you have mentioned and assumed to be okay is against the rules.
I can assure you that that is not what the Team leadership was teaching. They bent over backwards to comply with Quixtar’s concerns. —- Uh-huh, sure they did.
I was in a meeting where Gary Vanderveen and Karen Axdorff compared our Team Approach to Stacking. They warned what to avoid to stay out of the “Stacking” realm. The Team office supplied helps to make sure we knew what to do to comply (e.g. making sure sponsors and new IBOs were introduced and new IBOs had contact info for upline). —- From what I see elsewhere, many Platinums didn’t pass down these details to their groups, and most upline never even told their group the name change was happening. Talk about a total lack of real leadership.
Those were the i’s and t’s to make sure stacking was not occurring. Now again, it’s possible and probable that someone was off course (Remember the old telephone game? Once someone is taught a little off process, it just keeps going into the weeds). —- That is why the e-mails should have been forwarded to the IBO’s, but weren’t. Par for the course, though. What else do you expect from liars and cowards?
So was Amway breaking the rules years ago when I signed up? We registered via a product kit. We were not given an opportunity to register any other way. —- No, your sponsor should have told you the products are optional. Unless “Amway” did the sponsoring.
October 24th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
#389 dannie:
You’re right, they did approve of DEPTH-BUILDING. As long as the sponsor and new registrant know each other,
Read the rules next time.
Thanks.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
#374 NL:
Why am I not surprised that they’re donating the money to themselves?
Nice.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
Thunderstruck #369/Lynn #370,
There is an organized and concerted effort underway by T**M to destroy Amway, including communication with sympathetic Democratic legislators (the PR firm hired by Orrin works for the current Democrat governor, isn’t this reasonable?), administrative agencies (Poyfair already stated he is taking his case to “regulators”), attorneys general (given the above, this isn’t a stretch) and private watchdog organizations (this one isn’t a stetch, either).
Looks like you’ve just been body slammed on this one, Thunderdunce and Lynn.
Scott #371,
That fictional story has it’s own thread, and I’ve already pulled on it and found it to be baseless.
Jason #372,
What an insult. Shame on you, the Moderator works for me.
NL #373/4,
I think you’re right, and you’ll find Orrin and some of high level Orrinites all over that site, lookie here: http://www.allgrace.com/OnlineSermons/tabid/183/Default.aspx.
It’s amazing that church hasn’t been burned to the ground with lightning bolts. Several times.
John #375,
I agree with you. If you temporarily suspend your ethical and moral judgment, taking away the tool money would be a major hit to all Platinums and above, not just the “big guys”. However, my ethical and moral judgment snap back into my head and as far as I’m concerned, good riddance to these lying cowardly “kingpins”. ALL of them. When Rich DeVos complained about the tool scammers in 1983, they held far more power, because the business was mainly in the U.S. and Canada. Now the A/Q business is mostly outside of these countries, and the “kingpins” have far less power in other countries. It is past time to give them an option to stop scamming their downline, or cut them loose, ala TEAM. We don’t show tool scam money in the plan and people get in, but what they don’t know is the sucking sound they hear is the vacuum cleaner they have hooked up to our back pocket wallet.
Jason #376,
No, I’m actually behaving myself on this blog, you dipstick. Moderator, I told you, stop doing that, it’s too easy.
Skynyrd77 #378,
That’s easy. If they are honest about the tool profit with their downline “teammates” and “business partners”, it’s fine. If they hide it, they are lying cowardly “kingpins”. You should know where I stand.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
john jay franklin #349
That’s the hard part in all of this. How many businesses are out there? I mean there are a ton of specialty companies (only cosmetics or vitamins, etc), I’ve heard of a “gas card” business, and many variations in between.
There is a place in this world for all of them. Would I sell gas cards? Not a chance. But obviously people do it because it’s out there. Hind sight being 20/20 I wish everyone would have just dropped everything and let both organizations move forward quietly. All of this is hurting both sides and creating more bad publicity on the internet for everyone. And everyone on both sides will have people saying, “Is this….that I saw on the internet?”
I wish you the best. With the right attitude, no matter what business, people can and will be successful.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
Tex,
Dipstick, good answer, I like it. I’m glad that is all you came back with, after I posted it I realized that I was probably starting something and I really don’t want to go the name calling or arguing route that so many others on this blog have taken, thanks for not getting into a war of words with me.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
Chris #379,
That figures, you’re chicken. Better tell Amway I work for them though, I haven’t seen a paycheck yet.
You almost make the tool scam sound good, but too bad we know too much.
GirlPower #380,
Rules and TEAM? That is like water and oil. They may coexist, but they never mix. Except when Quixtar shakes them violently. But eventually they separate again.
ibofb #381/2,
You did fine in 381, but really stepped into it in 382. You have done this several times, when are you going to learn? I don’t have any issue with paying for the costs and a reasonable profit, but when the majority of the upline’s lifestyle is from tools and they lie about it, they are lying cowardly “kingpins”. Your smokescreen of staffing, office space, etc., is nonsense. Of course you have to pay for these things, but the question is how much is left over for the higher pins. Go back to your “sunshine” site and let the real IBO’s address this issue. You keep bending and dodging the real issue, as usual. Is this clear enough? Hit the road, ibofb.
ibofb #383,
So you can scam your downline, as long as you lie about it? You are amazing.
It also comes down to the motivation for the sale. Are the “folk” selling it to make money from the sale itself, rather than its inherent worth, and then encouraging others to do the same, then you have an unethical and immoral sale. Look through the other end ibofb, the view is the truth. Get a clue, and teach others to do the same.
John #386,
You think I use the term lying cowards randomly? No, the “kingpins” have EARNED that title. There are plenty of former IBO “kingpins” who tell the truth, but to expect a current one to do it would be their own financial suicide.
CC #388,
Sure, where is it?
dannie #389,
Q approved what was in writing, the problem is TEAM did things that were not written down and broke the rules. For instance, not saying the word Quixtar a single time and giving Orrin and Chris credit for what Quixtar does in the Opens, etc.
ibofb #390,
You don’t have to announce other threads on this one, we’ll find it.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:32 pm
Dear Alticore/Amway/Quixtar Spies,
We were in Louisville. We KNEW about you by midway through the dinner break on Friday. Most of us there knew about you by the dinner break on Saturday, if not before.
You were, I am sorry to say, the standing joke of the weekend. I actually feel sorry for you now. There we all were, some 35,000 to 40,000 of us, to learn about character, integrity, having a Personal Missions Statement, people skills, lessons from history and leadership. And there you were, to gather dirt on our leadership that just WAS NOT THERE!! I hope you got something out of it. We did, lots.
Alticor/Amway/Quixtar, what a pathetic and lame attempt to make sure our leaders followed the rules. Of COURSE they would. They’re NOT stupid! And, contrary to what you seem to believe of us, neither are we, which is how we knew about your spies.
It was a sad, sick parting shot. It grieves to see you like this, so bent on destroying human loyalty and love — what you can’t corporately can’t seem to understand or quantify, and isn’t and wasn’t really ever yours in the first place.
We as TEAM have and will continue to outlive and outlast you. It’s inevitable. It’s not a business thing. It’s not personal. It’s a human thing. Because we’re made to be free people of choice and will. And we haven’t chosen and won’t chose you.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:38 pm
Cathy: Got your other message. Roger that.
Tex: Got your message, too. Alas, the electrons have been scattered to the wind.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:36 am
Cathy #398,
You found the planted “stooges”, the ones who were assigned to get caught. You didn’t find the real spies, they made it through the entire weekend. They even cried tears when Orrin came on stage, but had to open the plastic bags of onions in their shirt pockets to make it happen. I heard one of them couldn’t cry with the onions, so he poked himself in the eyes to make it look real. Now THAT’S dedication.
CC #399,
That’s okay, looks like the new thread is more interesting, this one has definitely run its course, and then some. I’m sure it was some good stuff, but I’m not running low on material, the Orrinites keeping feeding me great lines. It’s off to “Why we fight, part I”, which indicates the REALLY good stuff is yet to come.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:15 am
Why are people so stupid…………if it smells like s–t it must be s–t.It is a matter of time before the feds come knocking at teams/quixtar’s door and shutting it down as being a cult.If Dateline did a story already on this business wait until they catch wind about all the fighting going on.Good luck everyone and I hope someday you can enjoy life for what it is…………..it is all about family isn’t it ???So lets spend the time with our families instead of wasting our time worring about the team/quixtar.!!!!!!!!!
October 25th, 2007 at 8:58 am
You know TEX, you must love the thought of Tens of Thousands of people coming to the conclusion that you’re a dirt bag. Your mother must be proud.
October 25th, 2007 at 9:00 am
Tex 397
Spoken like a true Communist.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
doris #401,
Bub-bye.
Thunderdunce #402,
Very proud.
Thunderdunce #403,
How so?
October 25th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
TexSpin. Cat got your tounge? Or did mom say your Spegetti-O’s were done?
Just in case you missed this while you were gone. By the way there’s sause on your chin.
Tex #286
Tex says:
I don’t have TexSpin, I have TexFacts (actually, just plain facts, but if you want to play that game, so be it). I think entire product lines had their prices reduced in he UK. The U.S. has seen new products where prices were reduced, and the Daily vitamin price was reduced recently, along with the large containers of XS syrup. Also, the new products are very fairly and competitively priced, although not technically a “reduction”. There is probably more to come. You lose.
I was kidding about getting “paid by the blog”, in response to repeatedly being asked that question, I got tired of answering it, so I answered to make the question go away by telling them what they wanted to hear. Nobody pays me to blog, unless you consider the future success of my Amway business as payment. Get a grip.
Let’s break this down shall we.
Tex Says:
“I don’t have TexSpin, I have TexFacts (actually, just plain facts, but if you want to play that game, so be it).”
TexSpin you have opinion, and lots of it.
Tex says:
“I think entire product lines had their prices reduced in he UK.”
“I think”…again, opinion not fact. The UK prices were reduced on 12 products only not the “entire line”.
Tex says:
“The U.S. has seen new products where prices were reduced, and the Daily vitamin price was reduced recently, along with the large containers of XS syrup.”
These prices were reduced because they’re not moving. XS syrup never was a big seller.
Tex says:
“Also, the new products are very fairly and competitively priced, although not technically a “reduction”.
Again, more opinion. “very fairly and competitively priced”. The snow’s pretty deep and it’s only October.
Tex says:
“There is probably more to come. You lose.”
Not exactly fact here either Tex.
Tex says:
“I was kidding about getting “paid by the blog”, in response to repeatedly being asked that question, I got tired of answering it, so I answered to make the question go away by telling them what they wanted to hear. Nobody pays me to blog, unless you consider the future success of my Amway business as payment. Get a grip.”
Translation: “I voted for the blog payment before I voted against it.”
Good luck with your business Tex I’m sure that your customers and downline like your PMA.
Keep up the spinning, you’re the best.
By the way how much per blog do you get paid anyway?
October 25th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
IBO To Go #405,
Mom taught me to spell sauce like I just did, not sause. Did your Mom drop you on your head? Multiple times?
October 25th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
TexSpin, are you there or is it nap time?
October 25th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
TexSpin,
Thanks for the spelling lesson.
How were your Spegetti-O’s.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
TexSpin,
Now that your lunch and nap time are over tell me more about your TexSpin “facts” on prices and what you “think” about the “very fairly and competitively priced” product line.
How’s that PMA working out for you and your downline?
Oh, and how much per blog do you get paid anyway?
October 25th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
IBO To Go #407,
I’m always here.
The Moderator lost my response to your stupid questions, and now I’ve lost interest in answering your garbage.
If you want to restate your questions, I may answer them, but I’m inclined not to, because you’re such a dork.
October 25th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Tex #400 —
I feel sorry for you, too. I used to be like your posts. I was all mouth and no consideration of others’ feelings or considered thought behind it. Now, I am a product of the Systems, first Legacy’s and now TEAM’s, and now I just pity you. You criticize and attack what you don’t understand nor can quantify.
As per your comments on Louisville and what we did or did not realize there, how would YOU know?? Were you THERE?? Did you pony up the $90 apiece (cheap for such a weekend, especially if you compare it to the seminars my husband’s job sends him on that cost over $500 for 1/2 a day!) for your tickets? Did you get plane tickets, hotel rooms, a car and eat arena food so you wouldn’t miss a thing? Did you take the time off from work needed for the flights, and live without sleep to get in line early enough to get good seats?
I don’t think so. The TEAM teaches self-sacrifice for a larger cause, investment in one’s self as the best way to make the world better and other things about which you currently seem to show by your postings you have no visible clues regarding. As I said, I pity you. I only hope you do not become, as my late father often said, “Too soon old, and too late smart!”
October 25th, 2007 at 7:49 pm
Cathy #411,
I feel sorry for you, too. I used to be like your posts. I was all mouth and no consideration of others’ feelings or considered thought behind it. Now, I am a product of the Systems, first Legacy’s and now TEAM’s, and now I just pity you. You criticize and attack what you don’t understand nor can quantify. —- You’re the one who is a product of Legacy/TEAM. Your “leaders” break rules, want to break more on their way out, file an “illegal pyramid” lawsuit that gets DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE, several other lawsuits and blogs arise from these actions, and you feel sorry for me? What do you think I can’t quantify?
As per your comments on Louisville and what we did or did not realize there, how would YOU know?? Were you THERE?? Did you pony up the $90 apiece (cheap for such a weekend, especially if you compare it to the seminars my husband’s job sends him on that cost over $500 for 1/2 a day!) for your tickets? Did you get plane tickets, hotel rooms, a car and eat arena food so you wouldn’t miss a thing? Did you take the time off from work needed for the flights, and live without sleep to get in line early enough to get good seats? —- I’ve done that plenty of times before, and decided over 2 years ago not to participate in the tool scam any longer. I think we’ll find out a lot more about what happened in KY as time goes by. I’m sure Orrin and Co. were on their “best behavior”, however.
I don’t think so. The TEAM teaches self-sacrifice for a larger cause, investment in one’s self as the best way to make the world better and other things about which you currently seem to show by your postings you have no visible clues regarding. As I said, I pity you. I only hope you do not become, as my late father often said, “Too soon old, and too late smart!” —- I bought into that garbage for over a decade, that’s why I’m determined to shut it down. I don’t know what you consider old, but I got smart over 2 years ago.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
Goodbye. Goodbye Alticor, Amway & Quixtar. Goodbye to your blogs. Goodbye to your negativity. Goodbye to your people who tell me I’m wrong for following my heart.
I’ve decided to stop looking back. It’s time to look forward. Not to a new business, because there ISN’T one. Just forward into a future without you.
I’m following my heart. I’m following my convictions and beliefs. I’m exercising my free will and leaving you behind. I’m going the same way as my friends and loved ones, and I think it’s great we’ve all decided INDEPENDANTLY to travel the same path.
No one paid me for my blogging. No one paid me for my opinion. No one told me what my opinions should be. I arrived at my opinions and expressed them all by myself. I am a highly educated (most of a Master’s in Theology) adult who holds down a responsible job, runs a home, is a parent, has owned businesses (yes, prior to Quixtar and even when we started, too), has many friends both in and out of the business community, is active in church and civic affairs, and thinks for myself. I was smart, talented and capable of having and expressing intelligent thoughts before I met you, and am after, too. Don’t bother sueing me; it’s a waste of your time and money. I have spoken the truth, and you will lose.
So, goodbye, Amway corporation. Good luck. If the corporate behavior I’ve seen from you lately and the numbers I saw in Louisville are any indication of the droves departing in North America, you’re going to need all the luck you can get to survive the next couple of years.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:48 am
Cathy #413,
Bub-bye. Good riddance.
October 26th, 2007 at 7:41 am
TexSpin #410 Says:
IBO To Go #407,
“I’m always here.
The Moderator lost my response to your stupid questions, and now I’ve lost interest in answering your garbage.
If you want to restate your questions, I may answer them, but I’m inclined not to, because you’re such a dork.”
Let’s begin shall we?
Yes, of course you’re “always here”.
If you’re not blogin’ you’re not gettin’ paid you made that perfectly clear.
TexSpin Says:
“The Moderator lost my response to your stupid questions”…
That’s right up there with “the dog ate my homework”. Surely as an Amway Business Owner you have learned the importance of being accountable for your own actions haven’t you?
TexSpin Says:
“…now I’ve lost interest in answering your garbage.”
Translation: “this is harder than Jim Payne told me it would be. I’m taking my ball and going home.”
TexSpin Says:
“If you want to restate your questions, I may answer them, but I’m inclined not to, because you’re such a dork.”
Perhaps my questions were phrased in a way that is beyond your comprehension. Allow me to clearify.
In post #286 you said…”Nobody pays me to blog, unless you consider the future success of my Amway business as payment. Get a grip.”
My question was how is that PMA (positive mental attitude) of your’s working for your customers and downline? Or putting it in another way. Are you TexSpin, the reason that the prospect asks “this isn’t Amway is it?”
Or is this what they taught you at Amway University?
October 26th, 2007 at 9:14 am
Tex #412
Dude, you actually were part of a system for 10 years?!? And you still have this attitude? Wow, no wonder you are such a lonely guy, you see for the audio part of our system to work, you need to listen. For our books to work you need to crack the binding. Then, here it comes, ready? You need to apply it. You really have one of the worse attitudes and that is why you weren’t successful in the business. But like any good liberal, you take no responsibility yourself and blame the ones who have helped tens of thousands better their lives while you sulk. Man, it must be sad to live such a pitiful existence.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
yes the rants that are here are totally crazy,
if some of you arent getting paid to be here ..its a mystery to me..
If an adult chooses to learn to grow and become a better person,, by doing anything (that is to be applauded).. yes there are people out there that are mad at everything and choose to tell others how wrong they are..
what makes them better because they have a rude mouth and choose to use it. to hurt others..to think that there isnt 2 sides of this is nuts.. .. and please know that the people getting hurt here are real and this no no small problem.. thousands of people depended on both of these companies to make this work.. and all have failed bigtime.. both sides have failed.. as we all move on in life to do whatever, may you learn from this,, and use this to be a better person for humanity.. God bless and good bye to all…
October 26th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
IBO To Go #415,
My question was how is that PMA (positive mental attitude) of your’s working for your customers and downline? —- It’s working great.
Or putting it in another way. Are you TexSpin, the reason that the prospect asks “this isn’t Amway is it?” —- If they ask, I ask them what they know about Amway, and then tell them how it really is, which is now much better, because Orrin and the Orrinites are gone, and the tool scam has been shut down in the UK.
Or is this what they taught you at Amway University? —- There is no Amway University. Quixtar University doesn’t cover this topic, at least not yet.
Thunderdunce #416,
Dude, you actually were part of a system for 10 years?!? And you still have this attitude? —- No, I developed this “attitude” after I realized I was getting ripped off by the lying cowardly “kingpins”.
Wow, no wonder you are such a lonely guy, you see for the audio part of our system to work, you need to listen. —- I listen to a tape/CD almost every day.
For our books to work you need to crack the binding. —- I read a book on the list almost every day.
Then, here it comes, ready? You need to apply it. —- I’ll apply it again when it makes sense to do so.
You really have one of the worse attitudes and that is why you weren’t successful in the business. —- The tool scam is the main reason why many are not successful in the business.
But like any good liberal, you take no responsibility yourself and blame the ones who have helped tens of thousands better their lives while you sulk. Man, it must be sad to live such a pitiful existence. —- I’m quite conservative politically, and being liberal, conservative, or any other “type” has nothing to do with the tool scam, it scams all types equally.
Rick #417,
yes the rants that are here are totally crazy,
if some of you arent getting paid to be here ..its a mystery to me..
If an adult chooses to learn to grow and become a better person, by doing anything (that is to be applauded).. yes there are people out there that are mad at everything and choose to tell others how wrong they are..
what makes them better because they have a rude mouth and choose to use it. to hurt others..to think that there isnt 2 sides of this is nuts.. .. and please know that the people getting hurt here are real and this no no small problem.. thousands of people depended on both of these companies to make this work.. and all have failed bigtime.. both sides have failed.. as we all move on in life to do whatever, may you learn from this,, and use this to be a better person for humanity.. God bless and good bye to all…
October 26th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
Rick #417,
Bub-bye.
October 27th, 2007 at 5:21 am
Tex,
Several years ago I saw an opportunity in the stock market to make some money and I told several people about it. They behaved indifferently to what I had to say and where able to communicate in the same manner that you do, negatively, and how incapable I must be to believe what I believed. One and half years latter I was proven right to the Vision I had of the company, this company isn’t Team, to the tune of a 2300% gain. The results where about 6 times bigger than what I thought they would be but it went in the direction I knew it would go. The fact that I was right and the personal attacks that were sent against me were meant to keep me from success. This taught me that people pretend to be experts when they are experts of nothing. As Henry Ford said, “Thinking is the hardest work that anyone can do. That is why so few do it.” Being right doesn’t consist of words written in a blog. It consists of seeing whats going to happen before it happens and getting positive results. A person needs results before they can be called an Expert. Team has results they aren’t going to disappear. Oh before you call me a liar Look at stock charts between 1997 and 2000 of on the big dot com bubble the numbers are true and I kept my gain.
October 27th, 2007 at 11:57 am
Tauraus #420,
Have you ever heard of the Paul Zane Pilzer story about how they teach to sell stocks at the Wharton School of Business? Your story is good fortune for you, but not helpful to explain the tool scam.
October 27th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
I love you Tex!
October 28th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Negative Nancy,
I love you too, Negative Nancy. But I don’t approve of the tool scam actions of the lying cowardly “kingpins” or anyone who supports them. Hugs and kisses.
October 29th, 2007 at 3:23 am
I quit Quixtar beacuse the products/prices were unconscionable. I could not promote the product with any dignity. I tried, but when you brush your teeth with the Quixtar product and then have to brush your teeth again with a different product (because Quixtar’s did nothing) that’s pretty bad. Honestly, my teeth felt “fuzzy” when I only use Quixtar’s product. My doctor told me I had to use a different deoderant becasue I repeatedly developed armpit infections when using Quixtars. Different deoderant, no infections. I don’t understand why Quixtar thinks this does not hurts the IBO’s. Why is Quixtar not liable for the damage it did to my business.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:31 am
Mediocrity Stinks #424,
I use both of the products you mentioned and have had no issues. They have more than one deoderant formula. If the prices are unconscionable, have you discussed this with your upline?
October 29th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
LAST STRAW!!
GOODBYE QUIXTAR!
My Wife and I have decided that Quixtar/Amway, is not a future that we want to be a part of. We want to be a part of an organization that has morals and ethics like TEAM. Not sure what lies ahead for TEAM, but at least we will go there with a clear concience. (Go ahead TEX, last chance to show your colors yet again, and bash me. Have fun with Quixsand! *Hugs and kisses* LOL)
October 29th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Tex,
I read a book and listened to some CD’s from experts. Peter Lynch, for one, and when I applied the knowledge correctly I got the results that I stated above. Oh, yeah Peter Lynch made money off of the books that I bought. Learn from those who have results. Peter Lynch ran Magellan Mutual Fund and I believe only had one losing year out of 20. Education is never a scam. Libraries are awesome.
October 29th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Personal Libraries that is.
October 29th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
I really don’t think q/a know what they have done to their own business thru all of this. I read a fascinating excerpt that may enlighten you/them…:
“I push one step beyond this philosophical-logical question into an empirical reality, and one that has obsessed me since childhood. What we call here a Black Swan (and capitalize it) is an event with the following three attributes.
First, it is an outlier, as it lies outside the realm of regular expectations, because nothing in the past can convincingly point to its possibility. Second, it carries an extreme impact. Third, in spite of its outlier status, human nature makes us concoct explanations for its occurrence after the fact, making it explainable and predictable.
I stop and summarize the triplet: rarity, extreme impact, and retrospective (though not prospective) predictability.”
-from “The Black Swan: the impact of the highly improbable”
October 30th, 2007 at 12:36 am
SPARTAN #426,
A real Spartan wouldn’t quit.
Bub-bye, “SPARTAN-pretender”.
Taurus #427/8,
You didn’t answer my question.
Why are only personal libraries good, most of the same books are in the public libraries as well?
tagteam #429,
Good drugs, huh?
October 30th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
Cathy #411
How much did you pay for that “arena” food?
“Arena” food here in Oklahoma City is incredibly high priced and I’m sure that it was there.
I have sat here and read more than several bitching and moaning blog posts about Quixtar and the high prices that they supposedly charge IBO’s and you comment about the “arena” food that you ate so you would not miss anything?
Make up your minds!!!!!!!
Once again TEAM hypocrisy is the order of the day.
October 31st, 2007 at 1:59 am
Tex, I just have to let you know how much I have appreciated your posts! I have laughed right out loud too many times to count! You hit the nail square on the head 99% of the time and where you come up with your most amusing comebacks, I don’t know. The moderator, in one post, said your comments were priceless. They surely are. I commend Quixtar for having the intestinal fortitude to do what they have done to put a stop to all the “kingpins’” shenanigans in North America and the UK. Much, much more needs to be done but I’m seeing perhaps Quixtar isn’t willing to back down and finally, after long last, may just clean up what’s been just plain wrong for far too long.
The supporters of these “kingpins” are much like someone who has been psychologically abused over a span of years. There’s something called “Stockholm Syndrome” where this seems to fit. The mentor-ibo’s use the tactic “if you’re not on system, buh-bye”. Same happens if you ask too many good questions. IBO’s are taught to edify, edify, edify – up to but not yet past the point of kissing the “kingpins” hands, feet and four cheeks. Too many of the “kingpins” are master manipulators, of that I have no doubt. In my opinion, I think that with all the obscene amounts of money they greedily take from the system customer ibos, the edification they consistently receive, their egos get the better of them until they finally believe themselves to be untouchable and uncriticizable. I am truly amazed that none of them have been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize – if they are THAT great, they should have been by now. Judging the way these terminated/resigned diamond ibos are glorified by many of their supporters, one would think at least one of them should also perhaps be identified as the next messiah.
I was an active IBO for 9 years. It took about 5 years to “see the light.” Once I did, I was able to recognize the lies told at opens, seminars, and major functions. I became an IBO because I really expected that maybe, just maybe, here was a group of people who were honest, had good character, had integrity and were positive/successful people. I wanted to hang around people like that. And I believed they were all of that and then some for a long time. Then little things just didn’t add up, then bigger things didn’t. There’s been a lot of speculation on here why ibos quit. It’s just that, speculation. Many assume to know. Very few of the ibos who left before August 9/07 were ever asked. They were labelled losers, quitters, “zeroes”, and anything but what they really are/were. It’s easier to call them names than it is to face the truth. Many speculate it’s because Quixtar products are too expensive, or Quixtar isn’t supportive in some way. That’s not why. It’s the bsm/sm system. It’s the upline’s lack of integrity, honesty, good character, true leadership. Amway/Quixtar has a bad reputation because of the behaviours and antics of far too many ibos at all levels. These problems needed to