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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
October 17th, 2007 @ 10:22 pm ET…
One motion, one meeting
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
We were back in court in Grand Rapids today, seeking a contempt motion that would have halted a planned TEAM meeting in Louisville.
We don’t have the ruling yet—we’ll post it when we do—but the judge said he would not stop the meeting.
Not what we wanted to hear.
But it was one motion, and one meeting.
Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady are still under injunction.
The TEAM leaders we terminated still have a contract to honor.
Their California lawsuit, with its outrageous claims, is still gone for good.
They still have liability for the people and businesses they hurt.
And they still must arbitrate to settle this dispute.
We will prove these claims in arbitration.
That’s fine by us. Because the facts, the law and common sense are still on our side.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
October 17th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
Thanks for the update.
Glad to hear your fighting for IBO’s.
Keep up the good work. ^_^
October 17th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
“You were back in court, seeking a contempt motion that would have halted a TEAM meeting in Louisville.”
Why would you want to halt a meeting that has NOTHING to do with you? I think your hatred of Orrin Woodward has blinded you to how nasty and vindictive you are being. Crush Orrin at any cost–even if it means the rest of your innocent IBOs, the ones who were never affiliated with Team, all suffer the repercussions from trying to represent a company as viscious as yours.
“The facts, the law and common sense are still on your side?”
Your common sense is long gone. You clearly cannot see how you are damaging yourselves. The ONLY thing on your side is money. You can win every court battle, but you have still lost. Big.
October 17th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Why would Alticor want to stop a leadership development seminar put on by a business that is not affliated with them?
“They still have liability for the people and businesses they hurt”.
I’d say many more Team and other IBO businesses were hurt by the e-mails, blogging and more e-mails lying about Orrin and Team than anything Team did. More than 7 thousand have left, probably lots more to follow. I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but the reason I’m leaving has everything to do with the way Alticor treated me and other IBO’s and very little to do with Team’s actions. Like I said I was on the fence till I read “Just go, Team.” And it only got more immature from there.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
#2 LisBette,
Click on the “have a contract to honor” in the post. Read the first paragraph of the Conclusion on page 5.
Maybe then you will see why Quixtar views that the holding of the Louisville meeting would put Orrin et al in contempt.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
All I can say is thank GOD I am not an IBO with this company any more, I am so disgusted with all the crap and lies you are spinning. You want Team gone just let them go. You are only making your new(old) name of Amway a cus word to all of North America. Why don’t you try to focus on the IBO’s who are staying with Amway and help them build a business instead of all of this energy to “tear” apart Team and any of it’s leaders. Team is gone, what part of that can you not get a grasp on. HELP those who are left.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
You have got to be kidding ! I ( and many, many 1000s of Team members ) spend good money for a leadership development seminar…money we would NOT be able to get back…like airline and hotel reservations…and YOU want to cancel/stop us from meeting ?!
You have an issue with Orrin/Chris. Fine. But the very thing you CONTINUE to do….to penalize the rest of us just because we are affiliated with them is why we are leaving you in droves…it has NOT a thing to do with a SINGLE thing THEY have said or done to encourage us …YOU have given us all the encouragement we need to blog more, talk more, disparage you more.
WHO DO YOU PEOPLE THINK YOU ARE ? GIVE IT UP !
October 17th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Bridgett,
I guess you’re going to have to spell it out for us. I’ve read that paragraph many times, and I don’t see why it prevents a TEAM meeting like the one scheduled in Louisville.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
[…] would think that Quixtar would be quite upset with the decision, but they seem to be turning lemons into lemonade. Quixtar appears confident they will prevail when the judge issues his ruling on the accusations […]
October 17th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
“Because the facts, the law and common sense are still on our side.”
….False statement…I am definitely NOT on your side.
I do have to hand it to you though. I have not seen too many (I did see a few in college) Individuals or companies who will crow just as loud when they lose as when they “win”. Quixtar reminds me of the Knight in Monty Python’s Holy Grail who has his arms and legs both chopped off and continues to yell “come back..I’ll bite your ankles!” You get an A for determination OR an F in Reality Check…I’m not sure which one?
October 17th, 2007 at 11:24 pm
The court order says this ) is what the “defendants” are enjoined from doing….notice the word COMPETING ?
Defendants are enjoined from (1) using their Line of Sponsorship to sell, distribute, promote competing products, services, or other business, ventures, or otherwise interfere in the business of Quixtar or its IBOs; (2) soliciting, recruiting, or attempting to recruit other IBOs to Compete with Quixtar’s business or take actions not in conformity with its Rules of Conduct; and (3) disparaging or intentionally diminishing the reputation of Quixtar.
I can promise you that Q never gave ( or sold ) me any leadership training, so nothing competing there….and I can promise you there will be neither recruiting nor disparaging this weekend…as much as WE might prefer it
( I’m clearly showing my choleric side ), it will be something that Woodward/Brady would NEVER encourage or allow…even WITHOUT your lousy court order !
October 17th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
#4 Bridgett,
Maybe you best re-read that paragraph. Team does not SELL, DISTRIBUTE or PROMOTE a, or any competing product or service there is no business or venture that is “interfering” with the business of Quixtar or it’s IBO’s. The meeting in Louiville is a LEADERSHIP DEVELOPMENT meeting for anyone who wants to become a better leader. That’s all.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
It looks like some of you guys at Q should try to attend the meeting. You might learn some people skills. Hopefully if you got a ticket, you wouldn’t be turned away the same way new Team Platinums are prevented from attending their Platinum conference that they worked so hard to earn.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:52 pm
Dude Quixtar! That meeting has nothing to do with you! Mind your own freaking company and leave people alone in Jesus’ name!
October 17th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
Can I ask a silly question? Why do you want to so badly keep people that don’t want to stay? It’s seriously like you think this is a communist country or something. I mean really, think about it. Just let us go. Why all the law suits, and especially against anonymous bloggers!! It’s almost like East Germany… But you know, Orrin is very much like Reagan…. “Tear this wall DOWN!!!”
October 18th, 2007 at 12:00 am
#7 whatever
#10 dannie
and
#11 Scott
The Rule is:
6.5.1. For purposes of this Rule 6.5, “Compete” means to own, manage, operate, consult for, be employed by, or participate as an independent distributor in (a) any other direct sales program using a multilevel or “network” marketing structure, or (b) any other enterprise that markets, through independent distributors, products or services functionally interchangeable with those offered or marketed by the Corporation.
TEAM, the Leadership Development Service Provider, is structured in such a way that it fits in to the (a) description–any other direct sales program using a multilevel or “network” marketing structure.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:01 am
Q has taken its next step to selling its products in retail stores…just wish they would speed it up.
The Leadership Development meeting being held in Louisville is open to any non-IBO as long as they buy a ticket (sold out so don’t try now). A person can attend that meeting and gain useful knowledge for any line of work that they may be involved in.
First Q wants to stop bloggers freedoms and now they want to stop the general public from attending a leadership development meeting….how laughable.
The judge said he isn’t stopping the meeting so guess what 30,000+ people (some IBOs, non-IBOs and a lot of former IBOs, woodtv.com video said over 15000, and soon to be former IBOs) are going to converge onto Louisville and have a great time.
Can’t keep a good TEAM down!
Q, buh-bye.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:08 am
#14 The Closer,
This isn’t about “keeping people who don’t want to stay.”
You (and others) might has missed my comment from the “Message Forwarded” post.
Here you go…
Raiding is a BIG deal. I for one am grateful that Quixtar will go to such great lengths to protect my business.
Do you think this is new to them? They’ve been around for almost 50 years. They’ve had plenty of “leaders” use them and try to toss them aside like a prom dress.
We are talking about a GLOBAL community being affected.
We are talking about multi-million dollar IBOships which are WILLABLE being affected.
That means the legacy of children that aren’t even born yet are affected if Quixtar lets you literally and figuratively tear the business apart.
You, as an IBO are in many people’s downline. And what happens to your IBOship affects ALL your upline.
And what happens to the reputation affects ALL IBOs around the world.
And you think Quixtar is just going to let you walk (and try to walk all over them) without a fight?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:14 am
Bridgett
Defendants are enjoined from (1) using their Line of Sponsorship to sell, distribute, promote competing products, services, or other business, ventures, or otherwise interfere in the business of Quixtar or its IBOs; [The seminar is being put on by Team, which is not affliated with any business, so it’s all good on point 1]
(2) soliciting, recruiting, or attempting to recruit other IBOs to Compete with Quixtar’s business or take actions not in conformity with its Rules of Conduct; [Does not apply, no soliciting, recruiting or attempting to recruit anybody to compete with anything] and
(3) disparaging or intentionally diminishing the reputation of Quixtar. [This does not apply either]
And the main reason none of the points apply is because they apply to Orrin and his actions. Not Team as a business.
I got a e-mail from Q a little while ago telling me to report any upline pressuring me to go to events that competed with Quixtar. At the time it seemed pretty random, it made sense they were talking about Kentucky, but that wasn’t for a competing business. Now it makes a lot more sense. It’s becoming more and more obivous who is trying to hurt who’s business. I still can’t see why Q should care, I guess the Judge agreed (maybe not with that exact feeling, but the overall logic).
October 18th, 2007 at 12:19 am
Bridgett #18,
This is so far beyond raiding now. At the beginning I thought that Q was right and I had no doubts about renewing my business.
You are right, the corp has been around 50 years and gone this route before. The difference is they didn’t get it into arbitration to hide all the other non-Team IBOs from the case fast enough.
After seeing how Q has handled the Team IBOs and NON-TEAM IBOs I have decided that Q is no longer in my court. No one is “raiding” me, I’m leaving on my own free will. If in the future Team starts a company with products other than tools, I will research them and make a decision on my own whether to join them or not.
I repeat, I’M NOT BEING RAIDED, I’M MAD AT Q FOR THE TOTALLY UNPROFESSIONAL MANNER THAT THEY HANDLED ALL THE IBOS, NOT JUST TEAM IBOS. I believe most people resigning or not renewing feel the same way.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:19 am
Four things:
1) Why try to stop it? I know for fact people are showing “pre-launch” plans for a “leadership development” business. If I’m Quixtar I’m making sure as many “sleepers” as possible are getting in and documenting everything (anyone heard of recording devices and hidden cameras?). Go to Lousiville, get the dirt, then file the lawsuits against not only the team, but you will probably be able to add individuals who are going against the lawsuit brought into it.
2) I find it funny team people are upset that Quixtar is vindictive towards Orrin and Chris. Maybe instead of filing these kind of lawsuits they should file a baseless illegal pyramid lawsuit in California that gets thrown out with prejudice.
3) This is only my opinion, but I’m guessing this is only the start. There is the websites that could turn something up. The team still has until February to have someone slip up and give Quixtar some dirt. They have another year and six months for someone to slip up. My personal opinion is Orrin and Chris brought this upon themselves when they filed an illegal pyramid lawsuit……and Quixtar has deeper pockets to continue doing whatever they feel is necessary to protect their business.
And last……
4) Since the team has a problem with “non-compete” verbiage, that must mean anyone who signs up with the team can come and go as they please. I was personally told on the team you don’t get paid until Platinum and 50,50,25 paid $10,000 a month. So my take is this: $10,000 a month is $120,000 a year. If people can’t make money until an equivalent of Platinum, how long are they going to spend $100 a month without making any money. The team would be blogged all over the internet and brought up in lawsuits (like the BSM lawsuits Quixtar gets a bad reputation for) so fast it would be sad. And if you pay below Platinum, then the equivalent of Emerald just became a less than 6-figure income.
I’ve been asking this same question from my uplines who are on the team. Especially when I found out the Diamonds are not getting paid right now, and that they all (according to my upline) gave up over a half-million dollars a year in Quixtar money. How can Orrin take the old system and create a new system that allows them to recoup some of that half-million dollars they no longer have and still pay people at a low enough level to keep people engaged long enough to learn how to build their 2nd legs themselves?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:22 am
Here Here!!!
Get a clue! Alticor/Amway/Quixtar’s current management is doing more damage to the business than any LOA could ever do because of the ridiculous attempt to be a communistic monarchy! This is America! Any judge that makes an order to remove constitutional rights, other than for a temporary domestic wartime event, would never be re-elected!
Quixtar has lost thousands already, and every foolish move by the attorney brigade will just cost more bad PR and IBO’s. It’s approaching domestic terrorism!
I still hope that the founding families will pull their heads out of the sand, fire the idiots who are propagating the “war on TEAM”, and salvage what is left of the relationships! Unfortunately, it may already be too late!
October 18th, 2007 at 12:30 am
Let me clarify my #17 post:
This isn’t about the current people who no longer want to be IBOs. That’s totally fine. YOU JUST HAVE TO FOLLOW THE NON-COMPETE RULES.
What is so friggin’ hard to understand to understand about following rules???
Doesn’t your precious TEAM teach “The Power of Submission”?
This isn’t just about this one time in history.
This is about also making sure that it doesn’t happen again.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:32 am
well I say lets us go and have a battle? pizza hut, dominoes. Burger king wendys
Bring it on Q vs Anyother type of bussiness lets fight for whats right princables or money??? leadership or lawyers
in the end one is right one is wrong!?!?!
October 18th, 2007 at 12:32 am
Bridgett #15, and anyone else who thought the same way,
It is better to let the attorney’s handle the “legal definitions”, but just as an FYI… TEAM is a profit sharing business, not an MLM.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:40 am
You can’t stop an idea who’s time has come.Bridgett is the Team in your line of sponsership? What are you worried about? This is a volunteer army, People cannot be made to do anything. Especially in our business. Do you seriously think people can be forced to build this business? Give me a break.The more freedom YOUR company tries to take away from ours the more people are going to fight. For that I can actually say “thank you Quixtar” I would really be questioning your companies motives if I were you! I would be extremely upset at your company if I were on your side of this situation! Thank God I’m not! I pray for those who are left,sincerely
October 18th, 2007 at 12:43 am
Yes, if I want to walk I should be able to walk…without a fight. What country do you live in?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:47 am
Amazed #21: “Communisitic monarchy?!?” Dude!
October 18th, 2007 at 12:48 am
#17 Bridgett,
I can appreciate your points, seriously I can.
I’ve been involved for almost five years, building hard and trying to make Q’s and everyone else’s businesses profitable.
This is about keeping people who don’t want to stay though….
From our perspective, Q doesn’t care about us, the IBO, at all. You don’t have to look far to find out that Orrin has been trying to work with them for years, to make ALL of our lives and businesses easier. Just make the prices “somewhat” competitive!! If you haven’t seen http://quixtarlostmycents.blogspot.com/ yet, check it out, pretty telling.
So instead of working together to make the IBO’s business easier to grow and their business way more profitable, they simply terminated him and started to smear his reputation. Seems to be pretty bad business practices.
To be honest, I was a very strong supporter of Q until their recent actions. Even if I wasn’t involved with TEAM before, I’m not sure if I would stick after watching their actions recently.
From here it seems as if they only care about themselves, their huge profit margins, and NOT us.
But again, that’s just my perspective. If you still want to be affliated with Q, I wish you the best and hope that they never turn on you and your leadership….
October 18th, 2007 at 12:49 am
Bridgette,
I ( and thousands more…many thousands more )CAN NOT wait for February / March. I will legally be out of Q and they can no longer stick their nose in MY business. And I will not coerce, contact, solicit etc. any of my upline OR downline for the required 2 yrs.
BUT… Tex likes to say that Orrin will rue the day……
Right back at’cha, Q !
October 18th, 2007 at 12:51 am
I just thought of something interesting.
My upline Platinum (who said he received this information from my Diamond) said the Diamonds gave up over $500,000 a year in Quixtar money.
Either that is fact (as I’ve heard this many times) or the team leaders have been telling lies for a number of years (which would make me question their integrity and motives now). Let’s assume they are not telling lies.
They not only lose that money, but they lose all the corporation paid trips. These Diamonds have build a lifestyle of homes, cars, income and trips.
So you have Diamond level IBO’s who lose over $500,000 a year in income and all their free trips become out of pocket expenses.
The only way to get paid trips is to build those “perks” into the team compensation plan, but that would….take money from paying IBO’s.
They can’t make back that $500,000 a year without……taking money from paying IBO’s.
They can’t make the extra money to pay for what used to be free trips unless they…..take money from paying IBO’s.
They made their Quixtar money off over a million products and according to what I hear the intial launch will be limited products so most IBO’s will be shopping at Wal Mart, Target, etc. for the majority of their products now so they won’t make money there unless they……take money from paying IBO’s.
Every time I asked my Platinum what the Diamonds, what the team, would do with the compensation plan after the 6-month period was up they totally dodged the question. I asked many times where the income will come from once Diamonds start getting paid again and they dodge the questions.
What I know is this, the Platinums and above, since they would have been paid in the old system, have a lot of incentive to get me to stay with them and dodge all of my questions even though a couple slip ups lead me to believe they already know what the plans are. Because if I stay, and they change the compensation plan and it hurts me, they still get paid a lot.
I’m going to be really interested in March when my platinum fills me in on the details of what they are doing and how the new compensation plan works.
October 18th, 2007 at 1:11 am
Corporate Communications #21,
I am a Disabled American Veteran who voluntarily offered my life to fight enemies both foreign AND domestic; if you have a challenge with the likeness being presented of Alticor and a “Communistic Monarchy”, perhaps that issue should be taken up with the idiots who decided to ask a judge to violate my constitutional right of assembly.
If Alticor/Amway/Quixtar wants to ask, I would gladly testify in court how my consitutional rights have been challenged by them and how I am posting on an “open forum” without guidance from any of the leaders of TEAM. I used to have great respect for Amway, but not with these attacks on Americans’ freedoms!
October 18th, 2007 at 1:12 am
Why would Q/A cause what would be a hardship on thousands of people, most of which purchased their tickets and airline tickets prior to 8/9?
This is got to be one more step for Q/A trying to cause most IBOs to think that the people running Q/A are idiots and just want the rest of “Team” to Go.
The Kent County judge specifically said on the original suit clarification that as long as Team didn’t violate 1,2 & 3, that Q/A can’t do anything to hurt Team’s business. Q/A has been violating that order, IMHO, and if Ron Simmons is correct, they are violating the Texas injustion still in place.
This move wouldn’t hurt Team, (They already have the money for the tickets, and the tickets are a fraction of the cost of going) it would hurt tens of thousands of people, some of which are still IBOs, some of which aren’t. With airfare, hotels, car rental, the costs to thousands of people would be $ thousands, and do you think they would go after Team if Q/A shut it down, no, all of those would go after Q/A and any judge in the country would rule in the ticket holders favor.
Can you say that the attorneys of Q/A are idiots?
October 18th, 2007 at 1:18 am
Bridgett,
I admire your desperate love of Amquix. I however cannot believe your ignorance. You are completely lost as to what the Team is and isn’t. There is no LOS in the Team. There is no MLM structure of any sorts! One of the Team attorneys has stated on an affidavit that there is a plan for a business in the future but one is not completed at this time. These are all facts readily available for anyone to find in many of this blogs posts!
Quixtar is simply trying to vindictively attack Orrin! In the meantime, they couldn’t careless if they hurt the former IBO’s who have left. It is obvious that they want keep Orrin in court forever to stop a successful launch of the future endevour. This company isn’t looking out for anyone but the Devos and Van Andel families! Ask the IBO’s in the UK where their Diamonds were just terminated over a dispute.
I hope this isn’t to friggin hard to understand! Ridiculous unintelligent opinions such as your posts do nothing but confuse an already sad situation! So, when you sit down at breakfast with your brother TEX this morning..pray for guidance and understanding…you both need it!
October 18th, 2007 at 1:42 am
bridgett 22
Nobody has a issue with following clauses in contracts. If Quixtar is illegally operating then the contracts with those clauses would be non-binding. Therefore no non-compete no non-solicitation. The issue was legality of contracts, not inability to follow them.
I’ve never heard anyone from team use that phrase “the power of submission”. Never heard them talk about submission, heard them talk about following the system the same way you’d follow a receipe, but that’s it.
“This isn’t just about this one time in history.
This is about also making sure that it doesn’t happen again”.
Alticor shows no signs of figuring out how to prevent things like this from happening in the future. Their north american business has flatlined since about 1980, that’s a red flag. Every so many years a bunch of diamonds and above either quit or get terminated. That’s a red flag to. The answer to keep this from happening again is to listen to the IBO’s. Their finger is on the pulse of the business so much more than Alticor’s. Don’t send out threatening e-mails to thousands of IBO’s lying about their upline, saying they were doing things illegally and put you at risk of legal action. Then if they do that and a bunch of people quit, don’t sue their old upline for them leaving, have the presence of mind to identify their role. Also stop letting your teenage kids file their corporate comunnications.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:00 am
Bridgett
Quixtar wasn’t worried about raiding when several of my top IBO’s joined Meleluca and began rading my buisness. Or the ones that were recruting into 3 5 or more muli levels at a time. They had no interest in helping me then. Now they throw people out and some leave on there own accord to follow the people who got them in? They are scared becase these guys have money connections and know how to build this business. over the last 15 years TEAM and LEGACY have taken their turns as the two fastest growing groups year after year. As of last week all of my upline Diamonds Emeralds and Platinums have left. Many I have known for over 15 years. They have never led me wrong yet. So if they are leaving there is a good reason. And now my upline is someone I don’t know with no system no credibility. Yes its time to go.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:59 am
I am appalled at the actions of Quixtar,Amway, & Alticor. I have defended these companies for many years, I believed that the values of Rich Devos and Jay Van Andel were at the heart of the these companies. My mistake, you are acting just like any other valueless corporation. I refused to allow my children to buy “Pringles potatoe chips” by Proctor & Gamble because of the actions of their Leadership and Legal teams against Amway and certain distributorships. You are now making a mockery of the belief I had in Quixtar, Amway, Alticor. I thought Alticor stood for “High Core Values”? Shame on all of you.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:10 am
Amazed 21:
Dude, go back to school and learn the difference between tort law and constitutional law.
You have no constitutional rights to a business. Never seen that, unless you extend the “life, liberty and pursuit of happiness” notion.
This is a property rights issue in one sense. That is, the LOS info is proprietary property.
Oh, BTW, federal judges aren’t ELECTED, they are appointed for life.
Communistic monachy has to be the dumbest oxymoron I have heard lately…
And for Amazed #24:
Explain how a profit-sharing business and a MLM differ… Not sure what hairs you are splitting. If MLMs aren’t profit-sharing businesses, then I don’t know what they are called… JOBS?
What happened to Tex? Did he break a fingernail or something??
October 18th, 2007 at 5:50 am
“Communisitic monarch?!?”
Now *that’s funny! hahahahha
back to your regular programming ….
October 18th, 2007 at 6:33 am
Bridgett, You need to keep reading for context. Specifically read the subsections to rule 6.5. It will provide a little more insight as to perhaps why the court won’t stop the Louisville meeting (assuming the defendant’s lawyers did what they are paid to do in interpretting the contract rules).
Hopefully for the factory, not many people are really paying attention to all this and are going about their lives. But I suspect y’all are going to live with the ramifications of your actions over this for a long, long time.
October 18th, 2007 at 6:58 am
isn’t all this interesting? Amway started the week out by attacking freedom of speech. By the end of the week they are attacking our right to assemble peacably. And you call yourselve the American way. All that I see is that the leadership of “anti-amway” has spent to much time in Russia and China and don’t understand that men and women fought for the rights and spilt their precious blood so that we as Americans could choose to gather in a peaceful manor. I choose to resign because I have no passion for the name of amway and especially. now that I see the transformation to anti-amway.
long live our great nation and the basic rights given to us by our fore-fathers.
October 18th, 2007 at 7:09 am
I was either going to Louisville, or Ada this weekend. Free Men travel where free men will go.
No one on the Team ever told us we had to do anything concerning our IBO. We are free to chose.
Get over it.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:09 am
Leadership Development?
Yawn.
Most of y’all have proven, on the blogs, that you have lackluster leadership skills at best. Maybe you should buy a few more books and attend a few more seminars. Might be helpful, eh?
October 18th, 2007 at 8:29 am
#26 Rico:
No one is saying that you can’t “walk”. What are you waiting for? A Golden Ticket?
You can “walk” whenver you want. (Business Conduct & Rules eagerly awaits your resignation letter. What are you waiting for?) You just have to have a bit of integrity and follow the contract you signed. You did read it, right?
October 18th, 2007 at 8:32 am
Bridgett Says:
Let me clarify my #17 post:
[This isn’t about the current people who no longer want to be IBOs. That’s totally fine. YOU JUST HAVE TO FOLLOW THE NON-COMPETE RULES.
What is so friggin’ hard to understand to understand about following rules???]
A point needs to be made here, I would venture to guess that many IBO’s, including myself, did not even know there ws a clause that restricted me from competing. YES, as an IBO/entrepenuer it is my responsibility to read the fine print and understand that. But I never imagined that it would ever be necessary, so it would not have mattered to me…but this is NOT the business I joined 5 years ago. It simply is not the same. More rules, more restrictions, less ‘I’ in the IBO. The issue is that the corp is changing the very business I signed my no compete clause with…and I , nor the leadership, has a voice in any of it!
[Doesn’t your precious TEAM teach “The Power of Submission”?
This isn’t just about this one time in history.
This is about also making sure that it doesn’t happen again.]
We cannot forget to ask WHY so many are leaving? It is not because i am drone of the TEAM and follow as they do mindlessly….its because of the lack of focus of the trends of our industry..removing the voice of the IBO…no matter what A/Q, or ANY business, does in the future, it will happen again as they continue to ignore the very people that are generating the profits….ANY business should get what it deserves when it stops ‘thinking’….that is free enterprise…this aint ‘needle knitting Saturdays’ at the local hobby shop.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:38 am
The whole issue of who is right and who is wrong, who broke the rules, or who has rules that are unreasonable…those issues aside.
Alticor is their own worst enemy. They have created exhorbitant press about themselves that will be construed as negative toward themselves. The NBC Dateline pales in comparison to this.
Starting with “TEAM just go” until the lawsuit yesterday.
Quixtar sues bloggers- attack on freedom of the press, (I know their spin on that)
Quixtar seeks to stop TEAM meeting…(with more than 15,000 people ready to attend)..Attack on freedom of assembly. (I know their spin on that too)
I know, I know, it may not meet the technical qualifications of trampling on individual rights but that’s the way it will be intrepreted.
Can’t they figure that out? It would have been a blow to TEAM to have that meeting cancelled by injunction, but it would have created more than 15,000 ambassadors of an anti-Quixtar message. (No, I won’t be there.)
Quixtar is going to produce materials to teach the people skills necessary for IBO’s to build the business.
Right…Maybe their tools people can have Don Imus put out a CD on how to avoid sexual harrassment.
The way they have handled this, does anyone think they have the public relations finesse to sell the AMWAY name change to the American public.
I don’t think so.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:49 am
This Blog is an absolute joke!!
Nothing but lies and defamatory statements posted by Quxitar/Amway.
I’m saddened, appalled, disgusted and disappointed.
Quxitar/Amway you should be ashamed as I’m sure the original founders Rich DeVos & Jay Van Andel are.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:08 am
Just a fast question for the corporate Lawyers at q/a — I doubt they read this, But I was at the team meeting in columbus the other day. It was awsome. Not once did they even mention or care about the q/a lies or bs. They gave a great motivational, uplifting seminar. They taught principals. Now the twist, my question, I went to church sunday and the minister was talking about the same principals, the same life changes that we all need to make etc… you get the point. So is Q/A going to try and close down my church too? Are they going to sue me for attending that too? Why don’t you have your “lawless lawyers” read this and sue me too? I don’t have much money but I would love to call every news station about it so the world will really see how stupid this entire thing is …… if you want them to go then drop it and let em all go.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:09 am
Corp comm. # 27,
Yea that is the way you guys are acting so don’t act surprised when one of us expresses it. Q is doing a great job getting IBOs to throw in the towel.
Q is bringing this upon itself which is why I believe their objective is to get most IBOs to resign/not renew so they can convert to a more Avon/retail type business model without as many ABOs getting in the way.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:10 am
Enough is Enough! Q is saying one thing today and another tomorrow. Just GO!….and then don’t go to Louisville. Team was using these Leardership Development tools prior to August 9th and was sharing the profit with Team members, why is this all of the sudden considered a competing MLM??? It was OK as long as the Team was bringing in new IBO’s and $$ to Q, but now it’s a competitor??? This was something already in place and blessed by Q, so it should not be considered wrong now.
Q also needs to get a grip with their non-compete. Honestly I don’t ever remember seeing it when I signed up but generally people that are successful in this business are “sales” people. So you’re telling me that if they decide to not renew their IBO (Team or not) they can’t get a job? Even if they didn’t get involved with another Network Marketing company, they can’t be an independent contractor (realtor, sales rep, etc)?
What about those of us that were in something else before? My wife has been in Mary Kay for years before we ever got involved with this. No one asked if we were in another MLM or told us to quit Mary Kay. So will she be violating the non-compete if she sells Mary Kay to one of her longtime customers???
Q needs to let this go. They can’t penalize people for things that were previously in place or that they knew were being done. They praised Team for their growth and knew how Team did it, but now want to hold it against them. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!
October 18th, 2007 at 9:12 am
Trust me, glenn—they read it.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:28 am
#33 Amway Realist:
“In the meantime, they couldn’t careless if they hurt the former IBO’s who have left.”
Ummm… why should they care about people who sit around and disparage the company and have made a hobby of ranting?
October 18th, 2007 at 9:34 am
qwerty: Fair enough. But…why do you feel that way?
October 18th, 2007 at 9:36 am
admin - I bet this stuff is wearing on your mind as well. Good luck to you all in the future. I have a deposition today with a bunch of attorneys (no cap on purpose, no respect) they don’t care about the truth, they care about the fees. If they cared about anyone other than themselves they would settle it and move on b 4 this is all a pile of burning rubbish.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:04 am
Yes, Corporation Communications, “communist monarchy.”
And Bridgett, I did read that paragraph, and I am still not clear on your point. Woodward et al. filed ONE lawsuit WITHOUT making it public, in an effort to protect you and me from the onerous language added to the Rules of Conduct AFTER many of us registered. The non-compete was ADDED in 2004. Q apparently never needed one until then. Maybe because they could no long compete legitimately.
And in case you don’t understand the language in that clause, it clearly states I cannot be affiliated in any way with ANY company that markets ANY product similar to those offered by Q. The term “markets through independent distributors” covers just about every single manufacturer in the U.S.–they all utilize “independent distributors” at some point in the distribution chain.
In response to one quietly filed lawsuit, Q has engaged in a slanderous, no-holds-barred, fight to the death war designed to crush Orrin Woodward, and never mind who gets in the way. If you think that is fair, noble, and respectable, then you are in the right place. You all deserve one another.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:31 am
glenn: All in a day’s work.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:38 am
Hey Quixtar,
Don’t forget to tell ‘em what the Judge said about Orrin Woodward.
Oh, I’m sorry. You didn’t forget, did you?
You are so predictable. This article is exactly how I said last night you would spin it. In my opinion, you’re not smart enough to see the writing on the wall.
It would be laughable, if it weren’t so outrageous, that you obviously think you have a license to do what you got a Judge to order Orrin & Chris not to do: disparage your opponent.
Fact of the matter is that I don’t believe you even need the order against them. They have too much class. They wouldn’t bother to lower themselves to your level.
They will beat you in the end. What you’re doing here in your “news” blog, and elsewhere, is you’re just making it easier for them.
And I, and all the great men and women of TEAM, want to thank you for that!!!
October 18th, 2007 at 10:41 am
Memo to TEAM:
Stop it, stop it, just stop it.
Stop blaming Quixtar for all of this. Stop blaming Amway all of this and stop blaming Alticor attorneys for this.
Start putting blame where blame is….Your TEAM leadership who decided to file a baseless “illegal pyramid” lawsuit and start a smear campaign over the internet.
Your “boy” Orrin got shown the door (and you all know why) then TEAM hate sites started popping up all over and vindictiveness was spewing out of your mouths through blogs and posts.
Do you honestly believe that Quixtar was not going to take a stand?
If your leadership (and I use that word loosely) would have left quietly and peacefully within the rules this probably would have never happened. But oh no. Greed and massive egos were too much for Orrin and Co. to overcome.
There are really two choice you have at this point:
1. Go quietly away and get ready for your new “MLM” by waiting patiently for your 6 months to expire.
2. Start thinking for yourself (and this means no regurgitation of system tools) Take a couple of steps back. Punt and regroup. Then wipe the sweat off of your brow and say to yourself…….. wow, that was a close one.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:46 am
Richard the Lion-Hearted #27
“Dude, go back to school and learn the difference between tort law and constitutional law.
You have no constitutional rights to a business. Never seen that, unless you extend the “life, liberty and pursuit of happiness” notion.”
– Maybe you missed the part about a right to assemble; or did you think that a church is not a business in this country? Your “go back to school” comment would be like me saying, “Dude, you need to move out of your mom’s house and get a life” How would I know that you are still living at mommies house?
“This is a property rights issue in one sense. That is, the LOS info is proprietary property.”
– If truth prevails, the fact that my relationship with my family and close friends pre-dates them becoming IBOs, and the LOS will be determined to NOT be Alticor’s “Proprietary property”. The only LOS portions that could be considered proprietary would be corporate referrals or passed-up IBOs from a family member or friend who resigned, but even those pass-up IBOs are from pre-existing relationships.
“Oh, BTW, federal judges aren’t ELECTED, they are appointed for life.”
– Maybe you missed the fact that Judge Sullivan is not a federal judge.
“Communistic mona[r]chy has to be the dumbest oxymoron I have heard lately…”
– Yeah, well… asking a judge to stop our “right of assembly” is much more foolish!
“Explain how a profit-sharing business and a MLM differ… Not sure what hairs you are splitting. If MLMs aren’t profit-sharing businesses, then I don’t know what they are called… JOBS?”
– It is my understanding that an MLM is one where the “bonuses” or “rebates” extend to all who “register”; where a “profit sharing” business does not extend to all who register, only those who have enough volume to qualify. Example: A new IBO could get a small check if he simply followed the rules, until the new rules go into effect, requiring that the new IBO be part of an “accredited” LOA… by the way, are there ANY currently accredited LOAs, or is Quixtar going to keep ALL of the bonuses from now on?
October 18th, 2007 at 11:17 am
Folks -
What we have here is a Corp that is used to writing extremely vague rules of conduct - stretching or downright ignoring their own “rules” whenever and however they please, wantonly and willfully decimating the efforts of hard-working IBOs throughout the world as they unilaterally deem fitting.
Clearly, the proof of this arrogant attitude and the havok it has wreaked can be seen through the legal documents that have seen the light of day in spite of their best efforts to supress them.
I am not interested in debating the justification for this gross subversion of their own agreements. I only suggest that each of us attempts to put our emotions and rhetoric aside, and to simply look at the long record of abusive conduct on behalf of this Corp.
When (I do not mean if) the world’s legal system gets hold of the breadth of this heinious abuse, I will not be surprised to hear of the massive punitive damages awarded to defendants who had the naive belief that Corp would actually hold their conduct to the same standards they are willing to go to the mat to enforce against their Independent Contractors.
It will make the assertions made by outside critics pale in comparison.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:19 am
hey I have a really good plan to show you ——- lol ——– let me know when I can meet ya.
ok Just a little humor to lighten the mood around this blog.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:20 am
Lisbette #54:
You call getting a PR company to set up a blog site on the Internet “WITHOUT making it public”.
I would love to get you to make something public for me, if I ever have the need.
BTW the “onerous” language was added while Woodward was on the IBOAI. And it was done in response to the Team in Focus group, which was terminated because they got out of line with their tool business. Those rules were put into place to protect my downline from people who do not want to act with integrity. Woodward has already once before taken his downline away - when he took their tool business away from his upline.
In your last paragraph, you remind me of the pot calling the kettle black. Let me remind you of the facts, most of which I learned from the FreeTheIBO website’s collection of lawsuits and accompanying affidavits:
Orrin has been violating the rules for years. Eventually he decided to stop attempting to work inside the rules. He demanded that he be allowed to take his downline with him. Why would he want to take his downline with him?
Obviously Q refused to allow him to take an asset they had spent years and years building. They also need to protect the IBO’s, who they have a contractual relationship and obligation with. He and Chris Brady was then terminated on the spot. Woodward and Brady then immediately pulled out a lawsuit, alleging Quixtar was an illegal pyramid. (Which allegation is completely baseless. Charging high prices has never in any court, in any discussion surfaced as a test for the legitimacy of an MLM, anywhere, anytime.)
At the same time, a blog FreeTheIBO was started by a public relations company, where no positive postings about Q was tolerated.
Q responded by filing a suit in Michigan to protect THEIR LOS, by informing the IBO’s in TEAM of the latest developments, and by requesting the IBO’s in leadership to affirm whether they wanted to stay with Q.
I don’t think they are setting out to crush Orrin, because he is imploding. He has already lost his Quixtar/Amway business, and he has resigned from TEAM. Whether the last bit i a smokescreen and he will rejoin, time only will tell.
And lastly, have you ever seen ONE instance where Q/A has applied the restrained of trade in the manner you accuse them of being able to? Just because you interpret something in one way, means that that is the correct way. And that comment applies to restraint of trade clauses, pyramid schemes and business in general.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:24 am
#15 Bridgett
YOU are so wrong..TO MLM structure.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:33 am
nice try Q but the judge ruled in our favor we still will meet in Ky.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:37 am
I am no longer a Quixtar IBO. I left for 2 reasons.
#1. It has been obvious for a many years that quixtar prices are to high. This has made it very difficult to be succesfull. I got to the 2500 pv level at one point. However because of high prices almost everyone I had registered quit.
#2. Before Quixtar I tried to build an Amway bussiness. There was so much negative about the amway name, I had a very hard time convincing people to get involoved. I was happy when I could tell people this was not Amway. I have no desire to be an Amway distributor again.
I have attended several Team meetings since August 9th. Not once have I heard promoted a new bussiness. Not once have I heard any bussiness oppotunity promoted. They have taught me how to be a better father, husband, employee. Not once have I heard any disparaging remoarks about any company or individual.
If at some point the team leadership does come up with a new oppotunity, I’ll have to look at the bussiness plan to see if it is something I can promote. Then if it is a may get involved I may not.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:44 am
I am a current IBO.
I am a current TEAM Member.
I have been thinking about this whole thing for a long time, and wanted to post for your comments.
I am not going to dispute all that is going on and who is right or wrong.
However, with TEAM moving forward, here is my delima on TEAM integrity.
From my vantage point, not a platinum level yet, TEAM has put themselves into a no win situation if they start another business in March.
The reason I say that is, from a Quixtar contract point of view, they cannot solicit or “tell me” that they have started another competing business until 2 years have passed.
On the other hand, and I am not debating this with anyone just my personal belief, I didn’t join for what quixtar offered other than for the money. I joined for what “I thought” TEAM stood for.
So saying that, I would be very upset if TEAM leadership didn’t tell me about the new business since I have a line of sponsorship I am already in. (Yes I know that it is owned by Q, but that is besides the point)
The way I see it TEAM will either violate Q contract rules by telling me about the new buisness, or will violate moral ethics by not telling me and letting others that are in my LOS below me in above me if I don’t quit Q in time. (Not saying I am quitting Q either although the option is on the table for me)
Either way, TEAM will lose all integrity if they start a new business.
What are your thoughts?
and BTW for some of the other posts, if TEAM does profit sharing based on how many people I bring in for ticket sales or buying materials, then they are using the LOS to do that and track it. Since the LOS is “owned” by Q, then team is at fault for raiding the LOS.
SO profit sharing, MLM, etc. it is really irrelivant. What is relevant is who is buying and how that money is distribuited.
And finally, for those that are better spellers than I am feel free to use A…Z for anything I missed.
Hope you all have a good one.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:45 am
Another NAIL in the Amway coffin!!!
October 18th, 2007 at 11:48 am
Amazed:
If TEAM is not a MLM, why are team members worried about retaining their position in the line of sponsorship?
As you said in #24 - let the lawyers handle the definitions, including the constitutional definitions.
Communist Monarcy? Domestic terrorism? - Way to go! If it wasn’t so sad, it would have been funny.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:51 am
Right, you think common sense is on your side. Is that why you are suing john doe bloggers for saying bad things about Quixtar such as “meijers and wal-mart are cheaper than Quixar”. Or maybe “if you do really well in Quixtar as an INDEPENDENT business OWNER then they will fire you from being independent and ownership”. Those are very disparaging. Or is it that we are considered property and this property is walking away? Also disparaging (but said by your lawyers). Or is it that we are raiding the LOS that we developed and we kept some of the phone numbers and addresses. That is stealing I am sure. And disparaging. I will be sure to give you my moms address and phone number back and will have no more communications with her for two years to honor the contract. That sounds like common sense. NOT!!! Oh, now that was disparaging! Common sense is on your side like a pig in a bath (not at all for those of you with no sarcasm skills). After these disparaging remarks feel free to sue me! You have my e-mail address and I check it quite often. And yes, in the court of law I will say that wal-mart is cheaper. Sorry if that hurt your feelings.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
So where’s my post?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
So sone comments are awaiting moderation and others disappear?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Mod, pick any one of my posts you have in limbo and, after review, add it to the discussion, pleeze.
Why do some evaporate? What’s the trigger?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
#19 Steve
Leave. And follow the rules as you leave.
____________________________________
#24 amazed
MLM
Network Marketing
Profit sharing
It’s all the same.
____________________________________
#25 promiseland
Leave. And follow the rules as you leave.
____________________________________
#28 The Closer
The Corp cares greatly about the IBOs WHO FOLLOW THE RULES.
The rules aren’t there to make your life miserable. They are there to protect you.
Seriously, (not you, The Closer, necessarily) the rebellious spirit of some of you…it’s like dealing with one of my children.
We have rules in our house not to take all the fun out of life. There is FREEDOM in obedience.
____________________________________
#29 dannie
I appreciate and respect you for following the rules.
____________________________________
#31 amazed
Being a disable American veteran, then YOU certainly understand RULES and the importance of following them.
Yes?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
#32 Utah
“Hardship” to thousands of people? Hardly a hardship.
One could make an argument that TEAM has caused more damage (and even hardship) to hundreds of thousands of IBOs.
____________________________________
#33 Amway Realist
See amazed’s #24 comment.
MLM,
network marketing structure,
profit sharing
Whatever name you want to use, it’s all the same.
As far as your Tex comment. What’s your point? Nice diversion. Y’all are good at that, aren’t you?
____________________________________
#34 AEM
The California court has ruled that Quixtar IS a legal business. So all contracts ARE binding. Period.
____________________________________
#35 jerandi
Leave. And follow the rules as you leave.
____________________________________
#36 Brad
Quixtar has been MORE than patient with TEAM’s leadership. For six YEARS Quixtar has been trying to get them to FOLLOW THE RULES.
How long is Quixtar supposed to put up with this crap and have their reputation be dragged through the mud as these “men of character” go about THEIR business without ANY regard for all other IBOs?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
#54 LisBette
“filed one lawsuit without making it public”
“quietly filed lawsuit”
Ha. Ha. Ha.
Lawsuits are very public and there is nothing quiet about them.
Please.
Orrin didn’t get his way,
He threatened with a lawsuit,
Quixtar called his bluff,
the lawsuit was filed,
and here we are today.
Orrin et all brought this on themselves.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
I agree with OnwardBound.
Massive double mindedness on the corporation’s part.
Worse yet, their bungling of the PR side of this is inexcusable at best.
Numbers don’t lie. This business hasn’t grown in a long time, and I bet that stems from ambiguity on a lot different subjects. Read Built to Last, by Jim Collins, the chapter on “Preserve the Core and Stimulate Growth”. I would say this company is too far into the former to really expedite the latter.
It’s a shame, because they have a great platform, but are too inept to respond to changes in consumer demand quickly, and then crucify the ones driving the growth.
I’m not a TEAM IBO, but you’d have to be blinder than Stevie Wonder to not see that this thing is stagnant.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
Where’s Tex? Check out some of the previous blog entries. Tex posted about 1 on 5 of every single comment to each blog entry. He was so blind in what he was saying that people were beginning to wonder if we was an Alticor employee. It looks like Alticor realized they couldn’t pull the wool over our eyes with Tex and fired him!!
October 18th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
Piet
#61
“Obviously Q refused to allow him to take an asset they had spent years and years building.”
“THEY (?) had spent years building ?
What kind of dope are you smokin’ anyway ?
October 18th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Hi Admin,
I had short comments for:
#40 Jack
#44 onemill
#45 Rico (the other one)
#46 qwerty
#48 Steve
#49 Onward Bound
in a comment I posted before my #74 comment.
Was it overlooked or did you not receive it? Shall I attempt to reconstruct it?
October 18th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
#76 Laginito
Tex will reappear. I’m sure he has a life outside of blogging.
When he comments, you criticize him.
When he doesn’t comment you criticize him.
I guess circumstances doesn’t effect a critical spirit, huh?
October 18th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
#78 Bridgett: We didn’t see it — and it’s not in queue at the moment. By all means, resend.
October 18th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Trying to figure out why people are leaving in droves? Alright, I’ll tell ya straight up.
Two emails sent out to everyone affiliated with TEAM. People searching for info on what was going on. A post on this blog called Just Go, TEAM. People calling the corp asking how to resign.
Simple process, but very effective….
October 18th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Bridgette,
“Quixtar has been MORE than patient with TEAM’s leadership. For six YEARS Quixtar has been trying to get them to FOLLOW THE RULES.”
Please inform us of how you KNOW that Orrin broke the rules for several years . Aside from what we all know happened 2 months ago, please tell us what DOCUMENTATION you have, except the word of Q/A ?
How did he go from being the “golden boy” asked to speak at Q events and touted as the one to emulate regarding the Team growth ?
Please note the quotes below from a blog from a NON Team upper level IBO.
“For many years our organization has had to build a business under the shadow of the much-touted success of the Woodward organization known as Team and their pre-cursor moniker of Team of Destiny, or T.O.D……..
When we heard about the terminations of the Woodwards and Bradys our organization had mixed feelings that it went down the way it did, but was glad that finally the corporation was going to do something about this organization of troublemakers and how they were bad for our business. …..
How dare he decide to start his own company and do something this extreme to make it that much harder on the rest of us who are not related to Team. How dare he. I was very angry, but at the same time a bit torn as I read the affidavit filed in California over and over and over and some things just started to make sense from Team’s standpoint. Although at first I was completely and stoically on Quixtar’s side, Team has a valid argument that affects my organization as well and I am tired of the way that Quixtar and their lawyers have represented and are making us look bad.”
Please address some of this…for the full account, you may go to:
http://makingthedecision.blogspot.com/
This particular excerpt comes from the very first entry. Read them in order and come back to us with some additional insights, please.
October 18th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
#73 Bridgett response to
#34 AEM
The California court has ruled that Quixtar IS a legal business. So all contracts ARE binding. Period.
Having the lawsuit dismissed and sent to arbitration is not ruling that Q* is legal, it is saying that what needs to be done is what is stated in the contract… abritration.
#74 Bridgett
Lawsuits are only “very public” if one of the parties involved choose to make it so. Wonder which party that was is this case??? Not Team!
October 18th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Bridgett? Tex? one in the same?
October 18th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
I would gue$$ that the attorney’$ are happy with all of thi$. They win no matter what. Both $ides can go under and they $till get $omething out of it.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
#40 jack
Quixtar did not “attack freedom of speech”. They are doing the same thing, legally, that they did with Schwartz and his anti-Amway website when it was discovered that the guy was on Proctor & Gamble’s payroll.
Quixtar is not “attacking our right to assemble”. They are protecting the contracts of the IBOs.
________________________________________________
#44 onemill
I’m sorry that the Quixtar Business was misrepresented when you signed up as an IBO five years ago.
This IS the same business, not some bastardization of it that you were shown.
Sorry for the confusion.
________________________________________________
#45 Rico (the other one)
So…to avoid bad PR, Quixtar should have just let TEAM “do their thing” huh?
So your advice is that when Orrin, on August 9th, presented Quixtar with an “amicable separation agreement”, which went against the RULES, that Quixtar should have jumped for joy and agreed to it.
Because, if they did that,
then Orrin wouldn’t have pulled out a prepared, bogus, illegal-pyramid lawsuit as a threat.
And then Quixtar wouldn’t have called his bluff.
And then Orrin wouldn’t have had to be a “man of his word” and FILE the lawsuit.
And then Quixtar wouldn’t have had to go to guns, after being VERY patient and bending over backwards for SIX YEARS trying to get the guy to follow RULES.
Hmmm. Kind of glad you’re not the one making decisions for the Corp.
________________________________________________
#46 qwerty
What lies and defamatory statements. Support you allegations.
________________________________________________
#48 Steve
Throw in the towel! Please! Throw it now! I’ll take quality over quantity any day.
________________________________________________
#49 OnwardBound
No, it wasn’t okay. For six years Quixtar’s been trying to work with the TEAM leadership (quietly and discreetly, so that’s maybe why this all seems such a shocker to you) to fix the problems.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
#81 timeandmoney
Um no, not trying to figure it out.
Really happy it’s happening though.
Shining the light of truth in a dark room–simple process, but very effective.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
#83 janedoe said, “Having the lawsuit dismissed and sent to arbitration is not ruling that Q* is legal, it is saying that what needs to be done is what is stated in the contract… abritration.”
NOT TRUE. A lawsuit claiming that a company is illegal, gets thrown out of court WITH prejudice, is saying that the company IS legal.
If the company were deemed illegal, then the court (a judge of legality) wouldn’t send it to arbitration of an illegal business because the contract of an illegal business wouldn’t be valid.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
#83 janedoe said, “Lawsuits are only “very public” if one of the parties involved choose to make it so. Wonder which party that was is this case??? Not Team!”
Not TEAM?
THEY HAD A PR FIRM SEND OUT A PRESS RELEASE TO THE MEDIA.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
Bridgett #72,
You said “The rules aren’t there to make your life miserable. They are there to protect you.”
Some rules are worth having BUT they can be taken way to far which restricts freedom to a point that we all lose. If you don’t get where I’m coming from then I bet you believe that big government and the Dems are for the poor people too. You probably think the rich should be taxed more so you can have more.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
As usual a sad OFFICIAL comment from “the company”.
Your attitude is you own my family and friends loyalty because of the LOS ? You will never own loyal, you earn it and Q has done nothing but discourage loyalty. Team has done everything and IBOs who can afford it have tried to be loyal to overpriced products with the hope of some future rebate bonus. Q, you actions themselves are causing resignations and though I have no facts to back this up, your actions definately has reflected you monthly volume since the Amway announcement in June. You may force IBOs to their 6 months but in doing so in this fashion, you have convinced a great many others not to spend another nickel in Q. I didn’t have to tell my download that, they came to their own conclusions themselves. Every pubilc comment, every legal actions simply changes more minds. Your own actions are killing your company. IBOs are just wanting to leave, let us, let them leave. Save some face, don’t you think the mainstream media will finally get a hold of this, especially with the Blackwater connection. They’ll be all over it, if you don’t control your lawyers.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
Hey, A/Q/A, this is getting a little over the top. I think by now you should just let them go. Let them start their little Internet Wally World with cheap prices and junk products so Orrin and Chris (and Randy, Don, and Tim) can keep getting filthy rich with their tool scam. Either the junk products will shut them down in two years or the FTC will.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
# 73 Bridgett
If Woodward was such a problem for so many years, why was the keynote speaker at the annual convention the corporation did in 2003?
Also, the judge made no such ruling. The ruling that he made was, “Both parties have a contract that if either party has a dispute that it would go to arbitration. So take it to arbitration.”
#79 Bridgett
When you post nearly 1 out of 5 comments on every single blog by Alticor like Tex has, I would say that he does not have a life outside of blogging.
#81 timeandmoney
The reason that I resigned was because I don’t want to try telling people “Do you want to get in Amway?” When I first contact them.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
#82 dannie
Does anyone have a link to the 5 or 6-page document outlining all the TEAM sanctions dating back to 2001 and all the actions Quixtar took in an attempt to remedy the situation?
There’s a link that someone posted even here, somewhere on the Alticor Media Blog, weeks ago. Would rather not spend the time searching if someone can find it quickly.
_______________________________________________
dannie, The August 9th meeting was ANOTHER meeting Quixtar wanted to have with Orrin and gang to discuss rule violations and how to fix them.
And Orrin said flat out that he wasn’t interested in following the rules. That we wanted to leave. But rather than leave quietly, and follow the rules, he didn’t. Shocker.
Instead he pulled out the “Amicable Separation Agreement”. An agreement which goes against the rules for leaving.
–Quixtar didn’t agree to the terms of the ASA.
–Orrin tried threatening Quixtar with an illegal-pyramid lawsuit.
–They called his bluff.
–He filed the suit.
–He hired a PR firm to orchestrate the smear campaign.
–And here we all are, part of one big exciting party.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Bridgette,
I ran across this post by you.
I’m starting to understand now… from this post, you agree with the injustices of what’s happening to your beloved Q/A, but since your leadership wasn’t attacked, you are stuck in a non-compete without any other options. That’s why you still defend Q/A and bash TEAM. But in this case, it’s plain and simple. The judge ruled, and we can have our TEAM profit sharing leadership development business and we can meet in Louisville. He read the Q/A rules, and said they aren’t being broken… so you can copy, paste, reiterate, rephrase, repeat whatever rules you think are being broken all you want, your post states how you really feel about it all, and you are trapped too.
October 18th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Bridgette -
“MLM
Network Marketing
Profit sharing
It’s all the same.” ???
You’re going to have to do the explaining to the UAW that they’re involved in an MLM / Network Marketing plan. I don’t think they quite know that’s the same as profit sharing.
Some times it’s just better to remain silent and appear ignorant than post and remove all doubt …
October 18th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Bridgette -
IF such a document exists - *and if it’s legit*, wouldn’t you think it would be the cornerstone of any case against Mr. Woodward?
On the other hand, if Corp can hastily throw something together to justify their actions and flash it to their shills and have them harp on it incessantly - it would sure misdirect the conversation at hand …
If you think you have something legit in writing suggest you either put up or …. you get the idea.
October 18th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Bridgett #89
THEY HAD A PR FIRM SEND OUT A PRESS RELEASE TO THE MEDIA
Can you direct me to where this release is? The FIRST time I saw anything about this whole mess was in an email for Q*. What media did Team or a PR Firm for them release this information to?
October 18th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
When all of this jumped off, your first reactive post was titled “Just Go Team”. Now that they have, why don’t you give it a rest?
The businesses that were damaged were damaged by you with your refusal to negotiate, your neutering of the IBOIA, and your failure to involve the field in your re-marketing plans.
Further, you maintain that TEAM only represented a small portion of business. So why all the fuss. They are gone. MOVE ON. They have.
October 18th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
#96 Greg,
You can CALL it profit sharing. The structure is not TRUE profit sharing.
October 18th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Just Wondering,
Have you tried calling your upline platinum or above? (Don’t know if they can talk to you legally or not) I know this is a very trying time, because you are right, Quixtar is definetly enforcing the no solicitation rule, and a lot of us feel left in the dark. If your upline Platinum has left quixtar they are not allowed to contact you, but does anything in the rules stop you from contacting them? You said that you joined because of what you thought TEAM stood for, I would say that the TEAM is most definetly taking a stand, have you
read the California lawsuit, TEAM obviously believes that there are problems in the Quixtar business that will not be corrected so they are taking a stand. Once you have read the lawsuit decide which side you are on and then act accordingly. As a matter of fact this is a very simple matter when you think about it. The California Lawsuit very clearly states TEAM’s side and Quixtar obviously believes the opposite, so who do you agree with? If you agree with TEAM then your morals and ethics dictate you resign from Quixtar, if you agree with Quixtar then your morals and ethics say that you resign from any affiliation with TEAM. The future opportunity with either company doesn’t really matter if it is a question of morals and ethics. What do you believe?
October 18th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Shannon #95
How about a few quotes from Bridgett??? Like this one
“For those die-hard Amway people, they can shout from the rooftops about the history of Quixtar and it’s association with Amway right now. You don’t have to change the name and screw the rest of us over. You can talk about Amway, right now, until you are blue in the face, but don’t force ME to talk about Amway.”
Bridgett… What changed from your thinking from your post on June 18, 2007 till now?
“Why not look at your databases, see what IBOs are sponsoring the most AND MOVING VOLUME, and ask THOSE IBOs what they think about your brilliant idea?” Should have asked the LOA TEAM! Oh, wait,Team tried to give their opinion…look what happened.
Bridgett, this quote is just the topping on the cake:
” Everything rises and falls on leadership Mr. Payne. Perhaps the explanation (and solution) as to why Quixtar’s numbers aren’t where they could be isn’t a matter of “brand name stickability” but a matter of who is leading this ship and who you have chosen to be on your team.”
I would suggest to everyone to go check out the posting by Bridgett, from Monday, June 18, 2007 @ http://insidequixtar.opportunityzone.com/2007/06/14/Its-about-a-transformation.aspx#3895
October 18th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
How does anyone on TEAM really see this as a defeat for Quixtar? Yes, TEAM can go ahead with its meetings, but no, they cannot do or say anything that is harmful in any way to Quixtar at that meeting. So, in the end, Quixtar gets what it really wanted anyway. I know - most TEAM members will say that it would not have happened even without the court filing. Maybe..maybe not - I have no frame of reference to judge that and, at the end of the day, it really does not matter now. It would not surprise me, however, if Quixtar is there monitoring the event.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
Bridgett
How much has your business grown lately? Have you actually been able to get anyone into the new Amway? I bet not… And I would love to know where this PR media release by TEAM is. Please provide or stop the untruths. Maybe TEAM should sue you like A/Q/A has the bloogers who have posted against them. What a bunch of immature madness!
October 18th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
people hurts???
come on,you are the only one fighting,the people in quixtar they dont have time to fight the are STP!! RIGHT?
and the people of TEAM we are so happy to the future we got,don’t you??
quixtar was the biggest company but now look like a little brother crying!!!
TEAM,un equipo,un sueño,una vision!!!
GOD BLESS!!
October 18th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
tex is Bridgett ……. tex you are listen cd or reading books right??
yeah!! now you feel a LOSSER…….AND YOU’RE RIGHT.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
#98 janedoe
Ashton Partners is the name of the PR firm.They “managed” the freetheibo.com website.
Google
“Ashton Partners” “Orrin Woodward”
to get the press release and more.
When you put things in quotes (”) Google captures the entire phrase–this way, you won’t find Ashton without Partners, or Orrin without Woodward.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
#97 Greg
My recollection is that IS an Exhibit the case.
The “case” being the one Orrin filed against Quixtar claiming that it is an illegal-pyramid business, which was thrown out WITH PREDIJUCE.
That case?
October 18th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
#95 Shannon
“Injustices”? I would hardly call them injustices. Do I think Quixtar is perfect? No.
IMO, they should’ve kicked TEAM out a long time ago. They are much more patient that I.
Do have my “issues” with Quxitar. Yes. Do I sue them and malign them claiming there are an illegal pyramid? Um, that would be a big fat NO.
Do I think that the meal replacement bars are more than I’d pay for them? Absolutely. Am I glad that there are 1,000+ other products Quixtar offers? YES!!
(For the record I have a customer who pays full retail price for the meal replacement bars—on DITTO. Zounds!)
What I’ve learned over the last several months is that MY shopping habits do not dictate the entire universe’s shopping habits.
And since that post, I’ve seen changes that Quixtar has made to remedy the pricing issue.
If you’re going to pull one of my comments, why not pull ALL of them?
Why not pull all the ones about how I now understand why we must retail?
Why not pull all the ones about the success I’ve had with retailing?
(cont.)
October 18th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
(cont.)
#95 Shannon
Love the new Artistry Essentials Makeup Kits. Retails for $59 (US). The same products from Whole Foods, with their Mineral Infusion line would cost me $122 plus the cost of two brushes, which are included in the Artistry Kits.
Have you tried the new Simply Nutrilte Twist Tubes? Ingenious! And at 55 cents each—very retailable to the Vitamin Water crowd and beyond.
What about the new cute little Simply Nutrilite vitamin packs at 83 cents a day—1/3 the price of Double X?
How about the new Aritstry Essentials Skin Care line? Better quality than the current Basic Systems AND less expensive.
And all these products were unveiled at the IBOAI meeting before Orin’s meeting with the Corp.
Seems like Quixtar was giving Orrin what he “supposedly” wanted.
Hmmm.
(cont.)
October 18th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
(cont.)
#95 Shannon
I have no other options? Darling, we live in a land of PLENTY of opportunity. In and outside this business. So why Quixtar? Because the Comp Plan ROCKS. Sorry you fail to see how fabulous it is and decided to accept a bastardization of the Comp Plan like your fellow TEAM members.
Why don’t you all get a copy of the REAL comp plan and have it explained to you properly? =)
(cont.)
October 18th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
(cont.)
#95 Shannon
And since that posting–which I still stand by–I now see WHY Quixtar has to do what they’ve done with the name change.
To weed out all those who have been LYING to people about being in the Quixtar business, let alone the connection to Amway.
It was this whole TEAM thing that opened my eyes to what other “Quxitar” IBOs were doing (two months AFTER that post you refer to, I might add). I was totally oblivious and really amazed.
I got the “stacking” email from Quixtar back in July, and disregarded it ‘cause it didn’t apply to me.
I thought, “Who would stack? That’s the least profitable way to build a Quixtar business.”
Then, this whole thing happened on August 9th and I now understood the Big Picture.
Aahh, TEAM was using the Quixtar business to lure people in to their VERY profitable tool business.
That’s a bait and switch if I ever saw one.
(cont.)
October 18th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
(cont.)
#95 Shannon
And that explains why Orrin didn’t care about the new products that Quixtar presented to Board. His money was in his “Leadership Development Service Provider”.
And that explains why Quixtar didn’t give the CORRUPT IBOAI Board, on which he and is cohorts “served”, any say about the name change.
Yes, if my LOA had been doing what TEAM’s been doing, they too should have been “attacked”.
But they weren’t “attacked” were they?
This business attracts many kinds, and each LOA attracts exactly the character of their leaders. Don’t they Shannon?
October 18th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Tex, I admire your stamina.
Everyone,
I shall be off this Blog for a bit. I have MANY other activities to which to tend.
If you want to know more of my thoughts, here’s an easy way to do it:
On any particular thread, hit the Control and the F keys on your keyboard at the same time.
This should bring up a FIND box. Type in my name. Make sure you spell it correctly, since it’s easy to misspell.
You will see, even in posts as recent as a week ago, that I question Quixtar. I am not a respector of people.
So if you want to pull things out of context, go to Alticor Media Blog, Opportunity Zone, and most recently, Amway Media Blog.
Those are the three places I comment.
Again, you all are brilliant at diversion.
What a grand use of your time. Thanks for your interest in me. I feel like British Royalty, a Hollywood Movie Star.
Yawn.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Don’t know who Greg is - guess that’s what happens when you half read posts you didn’t author.
Let’s SEE the information YOU quote, Bridgett. Only one problem …
Your paralegals are not here, so you’ll have to do the discovery yourownself. Don’t be lazy now.
It’s often been said “those who know the least know it the loudest” … so keep right on a-postin’, hear?
October 18th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Bridgett #108 -
Selective memory rears it’s ugly head once again.
Orrin was asking for the name change back to A-bomb?
Seems that afterthought was mentioned at an IBOAI meeting as well. As pre-revisionist memory serves, it wasn’t well received there by anyone not collecting a W-2 - and since they only know how to say yessir, that really doesn’t count now, does it.
Any other old news you want to rehash?
October 18th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
hey bridgette,
Your sucess in retailing “one customer” not much of a story there now is it.
October 18th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
Bridgette,
Back peddling now doesn’t negate the fact you said…
“Yes, there are some challenges with the growth of Quixtar. But it’s not the name. It’s trying to sell a meal replacement bar for $2.51 when they (IBOs and Customers) can get a dozen of other brands for 99 cents. Come on Corporation! Wake up! There are two negatives that I confront when sharing the business plan with people 1) The money is made by selling CDs, books, and functions; 2) You have to buy ALL your personal use in order to make this business work and find others to do the same (with the hope that you’ll find enough people that one day when you hit a higher bonus bracket, your bonus back on your personal use will cover the inflated IBO and RETAIL prices you’ve been paying) because no one in their right mind would buy anything from you at these retail (and many even at IBO cost) prices.”
Most everything in your post is what the lawsuit was all about. Your claims right here prove Q is a pyramid scheme. So, you just happen to be one of the 3.4% who can retail and even sucker people to purchase over priced items. How can you sell an item at retail to someone when you’d never purchase it and then brag about it? The fact is, you have to do more that retail to get the bonuses. You have to sponsor! Sponsor people who are willing to do what you do. Good luck!
Orrin wasn’t asking for 3 ok priced items to retail. It was bigger than that.
Well, with all of this… if 16,000 people have quit, and they all did 100 PV each, that’s 67.2 million in annual revenue the corporation has lost. Oops
October 18th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
Bridgett #105
Setting up a forum for Team IBO’s access in order to try to get some “facts” regarding the situation is not what I would consider a “press release” especially since the only way Team IBO’s heard about it was through word of mouth. Team has not issued any press releases or gone to the television stations to have these cases put out there for the public. Q* has done that!
Bridgett #108
“What about the new cute little Simply Nutrilite vitamin packs at 83 cents a day—1/3 the price of Double X?” You need to compare apples to apples here. The new Simply Nutrilite packets are not comparable to Double X, and the difference in IBO cost for buying the “cute little” packets compared to one pill a day per serving for each of the supplement included in the packet… is a whopping $0.81 per month! Great deal!
Artistry… What are you comparing it to? The basic system has always been compared to Estee Lauder and Lancome. The new Artistry Essentials is compared to Clinque. Again, you need to compare apples to apples!
You also need to remember that it isn’t necessarily ALL OF “the core” products that Amway produces that is the problem,, it is all of the other products that have become such a huge issue. If Q*/Amway/Alticor only wants us to only retail their core line products, then they never should have offered anything else!
October 18th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
I fully agree with LisBette, AEM, and dannie:I donR