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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
October 5th, 2007 @ 4:02 pm ET…
California: Case dismissed
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
We received official word from California federal court this afternoon that Woodward et al v. Quixtar has been dismissed.
The dismissal deals a severe blow to Orrin Woodward’s federal class-action legal attack. Woodward and other plaintiffs cynically claimed that Quixtar was an illegal pyramid scheme in an attempt to avoid their contractual obligations, embarrass the company and damage its IBOs. The company adamantly denied the charges and noted that a Michigan court had already ordered the plaintiffs to arbitrate their claims.
This is a major victory, and we are grateful that the judge agreed with our arguments in the case.
In his ruling, Feess noted that “the Michigan court has already enjoined Plaintiffs from violating the covenants not to compete and not to solicit and sent the case to arbitration.” He later added, “[T]he Court agrees with the Michigan court and believes the parties’ arbitration agreement is valid and binding.
“[T]he court GRANTS Quixtar’s motion to dismiss on declaratory relief abstention grounds and the matter is hereby DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE.”
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor
October 5th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Calling all Orrinites, head for them thar hills.
Is this Quixtar arbitration or other arbitration?
October 5th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Well, being a former TEAM member, I am fortunate enough to say THANKS A LOT TEAM FOR HELPING ME BUILD A BUSINESS AND COLLAPSING IT IN A MATTER OF 6 MONTHS!!! WHAT BS!!! So much for “going to a million”. I am so sick and tired of hearing TEAM members in my direct upline saying “business as usual”! What a crock. I truely believed that Orrin and Chris wanted to do the best thing for us but now I realize that they just want to charge people approximately $170.00 per month (including cds, books and don’t forget the seminars and opens) to help them become leaders. Leaders of what? An illegal pyramid that by there own definition of “illegal pyramid” has nothing to do with retailing any product. I won’t be associated with Amway because that is not what I registered in, but on the other hand I won’t participate in TEAM either!!!
-Former Disgruntled TEAM IBO
October 5th, 2007 at 4:29 pm
Miss Utah #2,
Welcome to reality.
Too bad you blame A/Q for Orrin’s and your uplines actions, however.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Six months…big deal…it’s what we should have done to start with !
October 5th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
Tex: Easy, easy.
And what did you mean by “other” arbitration?
Folks: Judge Feess’ order is now available online.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Oh my, Oh my, Oh my, Oh my!!!
October 5th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
By the way, “dismissed with prejudice” means that Team is now liable for Alticor’s costs. Hmmm.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
dannie #4,
For once I agree, but Orrin’s lawyers don’t, they cleaned up.
Admin #5,
There was discussion in one of the other lawsuits, I think the Ron Simmons, Texas #1 lawsuit, that indicated the arbitration would occur outside of the Quixtar rules.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
You don’t think they have a backup plan?
October 5th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Sorry I should have included that I was building quixtar for 2 1/2 years, but combined with TEAM 6 months ago. I already had a good sized business before the “merger” as I call it. Amway has a terrible reputation and although it is not entirely their fault I will not represent them, my personal choice. I don’t blame A/Q I think the whole deal stinks.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Ouch. Dismissed… with prejudice…. guess it’s back to the drawing board for team.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
oh yeah…they have one
October 5th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
There is always two sides to every story
October 5th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
rdknyvr #7,
I don’t think that is what the term means. It means they can’t return with the same issue.
revolution #9,
They definitely have a “back up” plan. But I think it is more accurately called an all-out retreat.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
TIME TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED
WE ARE IN2WIN and nothing Q/A does will stop us
October 5th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
Admin,
Since Randy Haugen and Don Wilson removed themselves from the lawsuit, does this mean they won’t go to arbitration?
October 5th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Miss Utah, I wasn’t happy with the name change either… and I didn’t register in Amway — I registered in Quixtar. But perhaps think about giving it all a rest for a couple months, and observe what’s coming out from Quixtar, and consider whether there just might be enough change to make “Amway” workable. I would really prefer staying with the “Quixtar” name, but under whatever name, it’s the best business opportunity out there, in my opinion, and I can deal with the rebranding.
And in case you haven’t been there, check out IBOFightBack’s site… he’s pretty much pro-Amway and based in Europe, but just about everyone with any opinion posts there. It’s funny, stimulating, rarely boring, lots of info from around the world, and it’s a worthwhile piece of your “due diligence” before making a final decision.
http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/
With appreciation,
October 5th, 2007 at 5:19 pm
Does anyone even bother to read the court documents before frantically typing away on their keyboards? All this says is that they aren’t going to hear the matter in California since it was deemed to be the same issue already decided in the Michigan case. California decided not to exercise jurisdiction. So it goes to arbitration.
Let’s not forget what this action was about—the non-competition agreement ONLY.
This court order does NOT address the intolerable name change back to Amway, or the overpriced products and proft margins, or the ridiculous “scare tactic” emails from Q/A, or the “proper” method of building teams, or system tools, and so many other issues that have recently surfaced. Those are all separate issues that aren’t going to be “fixed” in any court.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
Well, it sucks. But it ain’t the first time the court has been wrong. Looks like I am gonna have 6 months of vigorous studying before we get to start our next adventure.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
ONE STEP CLOSER TO FREEDOM!!!
Ten years from now you will see how this was the begining of the largest corporation in the world. And I’m not talking about the one that has stayed at about 1.2 billion in revenue over the last 26 years!
FIRED UP!!!
UNITED WE STAND!!
October 5th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
That’s good news for the corporation.
IBO
October 5th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Interesting… The judge didn’t say it wasn’t a pyramid scheme, he just said the arbitration contract was already ruled on, so they HAD to arbitrate.
October 5th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
cmon.people.think, spartan - I read the case. The judge essentially said he agreed with the Michigan judge - contracts matter, in other words, the contract stands. TEAM was claiming it didn’t stand because it’s an illegal enterprise, ie illegal pyramid. How could the contract still be standing if he didn’t make a decision on the illegal pyramid issue? In fact, he pretty much said he considered the charge so pointless as to not come in to consideration.
October 5th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
Thank God this is over. Now the Great Shepherd (Orrin Woodward) can herd his sheep out of this forum AND our lives and retreat.
I noticed that in some blogs, TEAM members were calling themselves Spartacus…well, consider this court decision your “Appian Way”.
We say to the flock…….goodbye and fare thee well.
October 5th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Leaving a legacy!
I am Spartacus.
October 5th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
Hot off the presses.
October 5th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Miss Utah - I agree with you. Our organization affiliated with Team in July, then the bomb hit. Our upline said they had no idea anything was amiss. Nothing contrary from Team, nor from A/Q. So, question is did Team “leaders” just want to welcome more IBOs into the fold to move more Team tools? This was obviously brewing for a long time.
We had acheived Platinum and had a growing business. However, like most, we could not get any traction in the last several years. We were initially excited by the Team approach and believed we could have some direction in the growth of our business and more people would be successful.
Our upline also said “business as usual.” However I can not reconcile in my mind partnering with people who say MY business is illegal, operates unethically, and is not viable any longer. Also, I can not tell a new person that this is a great opportunity - when today I really have my doubts. None of us truly know what the Amway business will be like in 18 months. I personally beleive that Platinums and above will be operating more like sales managers with a sales force with minimum sales requirements and a bundle of compliance rules. I have a job now, not looking for another one. It may be great for some people, just not most people.
I think Orrin is a the guru of self-promotion and does not have the interests of IBOs at heart. Team’s actions have made it more difficult to build the business. Also, A/Q is not blameless. I built the business pre-Quixtar and it is not an experience I want to repeat. There are many other opportunties out there, and why someone would purposefully choose to build under such negative Amway baggage - I don’t understand but best of luck to you. It was rough the first time around.
Also, we have bought products for well over a decade without question. For one reason, we had been profitable. For the first time this week we purchased comparable products from Meijer. 4 products - hand soap (3), toothpaste, dish soap (2), and toilet paper. Just four different products. And we did not buy the cheap generic stuff either. Crest, Dawn, Charmin Ultra Soft, etc. We saved over $42! And that was BEFORE shipping costs added in! It was an epiphany for us. We had watched the pricing and PV ratio slip for years. I think also A/Q knows that they have lost the competitive edge in the home care/laundry care business and that is why now all efforts are focused on Nutrilite, Artistry, and Ribbon gift albums.
I do not agree with Team that we should compete with Walmart - price is not everything. But, you have to be competitive. The A/Q versions of these four products are not that superior to merit taking over $42 more out of my pocket. Quality is important when balanced in perspective with competitive market forces.
October 5th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Sooner IBO #24,
The real Shepherd drove the pigs over the cliff, you would be wise to check Orrin for a hoofed foot.
TeamLeader #25,
I thought you already left Legacy (Business Group).
I am Spartacus! Or at least a Spartacus spy! Onward to a million! Smile! Clap for Orrin! Yippee!
October 5th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Tex: Straight from Legal:
“Judge Feess is referring to Quixtar arbitration which is patterned after other well respected arbitration programs. Please note that the arbitration rule now provides that JAMS or AAA can provide arbitration services. Also, the court can appoint an arbitrator if the parties cannot agree on one. Judge Bush’s report and recommendation is on appeal in Texas, but Quixtar agrees that the arbitrator that he recommended is well qualified to arbitrate any dispute between Quixtar and Simmons.”
As for your other question, Mr. Wilson and Mr. Haugen are still subject to arbitration. For anybody else wondering, Mr. Harteis is not.
October 5th, 2007 at 6:52 pm
tex,
your self rightousness is off the scale,(as is q/a) what did you gain???
now instead of just joe public saying its a scam
now you have the whole population of the team saying it now too WHAT A VICTORY…. for the big amstar corp.
i can see it now
hey want to see my amway business and the court order that says we’re not a illegal pyramid scam even though there are multiple court cases that are trying to prove that it is.
lol
that will be a pretty quick plan huh tex do you show the plan tex???
lol oh boy bring out the parade and the band, quixtar didnt do anyone any wrong in all (insert # of lawsuits here) hey maybe that should assign pv to the use of the lawyers, oh wait there is already a pyramid like that out there isnt there? hmmm never mind.
miss utah
why dont you have a heart to heart with your upline about the loss of your business.
tex
i think its funny that you still dont see the big picture, the team lost but quitxtar/amyway reputation will go on and on and on, the team, well their future is still undetermined.
insiders at quixtar say that volume is down
team affect???
name change??
or a kicked dead horse?
October 5th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
Gary #27, if you have a few spare hours some day, check out a book (Amazon or the library) called “Trading Up” by Michael Silverstein. It describes exactly what you are talking about. My take, however, is that with the hiring of Steve Lieberman, that is exactly where the Alticor companies are headed, and I’m more than satisfied with it. I agree about some over-priced “daily” household consumables, and I don’t purchase those through Quixtar, and even my upline agrees with my choices. But I do think that in many key areas they have the unique products I want, and they are moving in the correct direction. A few more months should demonstrate that conclusively, one way or the other… give Steve L a little more time, he’s not even been on board a full two months yet.
With appreciation,
October 5th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
Bottom line is that The Team will still be number 1. A lot of you just do not see light at end of the tunnel. I fought in Vietnam and never would I have gave up then or for that matter now. We will go to a million peolple and beyond. It is going to be a wait but it will be worth every second. I am sure sad to hear so many are not standing ground. As a vetern of this great country I really feel sorry for those that are giving up. I am glad you did not fight along side of me in vietnam. I would not be hear today.
October 5th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
Alticor Blogger –
Thank you for a very informative update!!! Still looking through all the docs but great so far!!!
October 5th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Admin #29,
Thanks.
not the kings subject #30,
I gained a lot of exposure of the overall tool scam, at all the Orrinites expense.
joe public doesn’t know squat.
The victory is for every IBO, because now we have even more information regarding the tool scam.
I never used the “A” word when prospecting, didn’t use the “Q” word, and don’t expect to use the “A” word when it returns. However, I will look forward to pointing out the tool scam is no longer present.
Yes, I show the plan.
Never mind, or you never had a mind?
miss utah, why dont you have a heart to heart with your upline about the loss of your business. (as if they cared?)
The future is in better hands with you and the rest of the Orrinites out of the “big picture”.
I don’t doubt the Quixtar volume is down, and I won’t be surprised if the arbitration comes down extra hard on Orrin and Co., perhaps extend the 6 month/2 year rules just for Orrin, because his actions that amounted to enticing IBO’s into his new “venture”, such as the freetheibo site and blog. I think the rules of evidence are much less strict in an arbitration, which does not bode well for Orrin.
We’ll be gladly kicking the dead horses known as Orrin/TEAM for quite some time.
They served their purpose, now it’s time to make the U.S. overall tool business look much more like the one in the UK.
October 5th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
So tex,
First it’s “the time isn’t right” and “not til the tool scam is fixed”; now it’s “MichMan #6,
I show the plan like this: “”
Which is it, are you a coward or a liar?
October 5th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
The outcome of the California suit is not a big surprise, and frankly, it has very little meaning as far as I’m concerned. It was never of major importance to me to have Quixtar declared a pyramid. Those that have a clear vision of the big picture will gladly wait the 6 months.
October 5th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Tex,
Thanks for the unwarranted attack. You really are out to get anyone aren’t you. Very sad.
Ummmm, having a little trouble understanding how “Leaving a Legacy” and Legacy (business group) are somehow magically the same in your mind. Maybe you need a new one (mind), yours seems to have burned out with all your constant posting and ranting.
Anyway thanks for proving to everyone you are still a jerk. Have a great day. Lighten up and try to have a little fun, before you have an ulcer.
October 5th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
There are sure a lot of negative people on this site.
October 5th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
Amway, you spelled GREATFUL wrong…grateful? Amway will no longer be once the name change — you’re gone!
October 5th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
Mick #32,
You didn’t fight in Vietnam to protect tool scam artists. You should be happy that Randy, Don, Orrin, Chris, and Billy didn’t fight along side of you, or you likely would have been abandoned so they could save their own butts, and your head would have ended up on the end of a stick in some North Vietnamese hut, for decoration.
toomuchtex #35,
Neither. He asked me if I show the plan, and I do. He didn’t say, “Do you currently show the plan?” I never stated “I show the plan like this”. As the top of the thread says, “Case Dismissed”.
whatever #36,
Then it sounds like your leader (Orrin) doesn’t have a very clear vision of the big picture. Class dismissed.
October 5th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
Hey Tex and all of you amwine morons,
This is so long for us, we will not be feeding your need for insults on a daily basis. We are going to be counting the days till Feb 10th.
What does that date mean? Your intelligent beings, figure it out.
Oh by the way we are going to be laughing our asses off as you guys try to build your businesses with the new amwine training systems.
October 5th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
So it would appear then that tex is a coward AND a liar.
October 5th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
Gary #27,
When I did price comparisons for Quixtar’s home care products I broke everything down to cost per use. I had a friend who is good with Excel spreadsheets help me. I compared our Quixtar exclusive brands against the name brand competitor at a few major grocery store chains in my area. I found that the Quixtar products were all less expensive even at retail and including 7% shipping. I’m talking about SA8 laundry products, Dish Drops, the L.O.C. line, etc. I was skeptical. I didn’t do this exercise to prove what I already believed. Plus, I typically get more uses out of a product than is promised on the label, so for me, the cost per use is even better.
October 5th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
I can only share my experience. When my Diamond moved us to the team I was excited. I thought we had our hand on something great. Orrin had spoke at our conferences before and I always enjoyed his talks. Now let’s jump ahead to the last couple months.
Before the lawsuit, Quixtar was great, the switch to Amway’s name was the best thing and, oh by the way, this brings in more money and most young people don’t even know the Amway name anymore. If you spend $50 more a month look at it as an investment and, if you really want to comparison shop, I will show you it’s really not more expensive. (by the way, these are the same things I’ve heard on Orrin’s CD’s).
Now what is happening? Meetings I’ve attended since the lawsuit are not about how good the team is, but how horrible Quixtar is. If the team is so great, why waste so much time badmouthing something else when you could be spending that time letting everyone else know why the team is so great?
At the beginning of the lawsuit my Platinum and above said “business as usual.” So they told me, keep registering people in what we are calling an illegal pyramid (Quixtar). So my leaders have the “integrity” to leave Quixtar, but still want me to register people in Quixtar?
Speaking of integrity, the rules talk about 6-months of inactivity. I had personally attended “team” opens, had “team” people show me “team” brochures, given me “team” CD’s, told me the “team” is still contacting people, showing plans, and telling everyone they are in pre-launch.
I’ve been told that with the pre-launch they are not telling anyone about the system, but only saying sign up for three months on the website and buy a conference ticket. If you don’t tell people about the system, yet the system is where you make money, and, according to my upline, they won’t find out about the system until the conference, would that fall into the category of lying, or something smaller like intentionally decieving people?
I’m not saying Quixter is 100% right, but I am saying I have serious questions about the integrity of people who would tell me to register people in an “illegal pyramid” and also intentionally tell me to go out and do something that, as the judges order confirmed today, IS ILLEGAL!!!!!!
October 5th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
“I gained a lot of exposure of the overall tool scam, at all the Orrinites expense.”
so you dont have any tools in your business, that you use when you show the plan???
what are the texinites learning here, how to spin the plan? name call, it will be funny when im contacted by one of your group, because the group takes on the leader attributes.
“joe public doesn’t know squat.”
and well tex that would be the next person you show the plan to, good luck building your customer retail product base in amway because that is a requirement now you must say amway business.
“The victory is for every IBO, because now we have even more information regarding the tool scam.”
the tools that q/a approved for 8 years tex, you must be reminded of the intellectual honest with oneself i see.
because if it were the team that had a tool scam quixtar/amway didnt have a probelm with it for 8 YEARS.
8 YEARS!!!!!!!
and the new ones that q/a are going to put together for the new person, im sure they will be great, actors with q cards and no business experience
anyone remember this “the principals and methods here can not be guaranted, we do however hope they will inspire you and help you have a profitable business”
get use to hearing that because that will be their retort when you dont get a yes to non competitive prices, 35% profit margin and yep you guess it no volume checks, because well that would require volume.
“I never used the “A” word when prospecting, didn’t use the “Q” word, and don’t expect to use the “A” word when it returns. However, I will look forward to pointing out the tool scam is no longer present.”
YOU WILL HAVE TO SAY IT NOW WONT YOU TEX???
hey guess what the system that q/a is putting together will have to be paid for by someone…who would that be?????
im mean it couldNT be in the competitively price of the products could it????
“Yes, I show the plan.”
really?????? does it have anything to do with the business were talking about now???
“Never mind, or you never had a mind?”
LOL PEOPLE SKILLS do you use these fine tuned abilities when you out prospectin tex????
miss utah, why dont you have a heart to heart with your upline about the loss of your business. (as if they cared?)
your right tex, your a upline too, you dont care.
“The future is in better hands with you and the rest of the Orrinites out of the “big picture”.”
he is right, join tex’s business im sure he will show you by example.
“I don’t doubt the Quixtar volume is down, and I won’t be surprised if the arbitration comes down extra hard on Orrin and Co., perhaps extend the 6 month/2 year rules just for Orrin, because his actions that amounted to enticing IBO’s into his new “venture”, such as the freetheibo site and blog. I think the rules of evidence are much less strict in an arbitration, which does not bode well for Orrin.”
you know so much tex better get out there and serve the q master. show and sell show and sell good tex vader.
your eyes must be brown, cuz you are full of it, its down because of how quixtar/amway handle it with the smear campaign and the threating letters and these spins of the truth you promote tex, you are spreading doubt very well, i have seen more people excited to tell “you” they are quiting then staying in these blogs, good work tex
We’ll be gladly kicking the dead horses known as Orrin/TEAM for quite some time.
oh tex what will you do with your self then???
They served their purpose, now it’s time to make the U.S. overall tool business look much more like the one in the UK.
oh thats right!! good point again TEX, and where did the money come from to invest in this QUIXTAR AMWAY BUSINESS MODEL TOOL SYSTEM, oh thats right the 35% margin, so back to the drawin board for quixtar amway,
imagine the meeting on that topic
we wont use people who have experience in building the business because they have already got tools and experience, we will have folks who have no experience teach those with no experience all from theory of course.
they will be those videos with bad keyboard music, or even worse like the instructional videos for job training at a fast food chain, oh wait a minute………a business system..
tex tex when the blog is done, you will be dismissed and you will be still known as the critic, how does your group work with that critical melon of yours…
the funny thing is tex, its all to clear to them.. read what they right you can dismiss it all day, but i think we have a nutrilite/SA8 history repeat sproating up.
October 5th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
Teamleader #37,
You’re welcome, but the “attack” was warranted. Orrin’s lawsuit wasn’t. I’m only out to get the tool scammers and their supporters. That leaves quite a few moral and ethical folks. I’m not sad, I’m quite happy. Especially after today’s news.
It was a play on words. I feel playful today, because Orrin got kicked out of the sandbox and into arbitration. Orrin and the Orrinites should “Be afraid. Be very afraid.”
I’m sure you consider me a jerk, and I wear that label as an honor, coming from you. If I was having any more fun, it would probably not be legal. Cheer up, you’re the one calling others jerks.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:11 am
Tex,
Good luck building your Amway business. Since in your mind the dismissal in California is a fatal blow to TEAM, you obviously won’t have to devote all of your free time to blogging your anti-TEAM messages. You can get out and show the plan and hit the road to Diamond. I’m sure with your great people skills and maybe some help from the Amway training system you will get there faster than ever.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:13 am
Do not worry. Quixtar can not hurt us. Things have never been better for us and I am sure that is the case around the board. Go Team!! I was just taking a break from my reading to check this silly blog.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:13 am
tex #40
so know you know what its like to be a vietnam vet, man, tex your now crossin the line, unless you served in vietnam, you better stand down.
moderator you dont find that offensive?????
mick i hope he didnt offend you with the stick comment
give respect tex and watch how you talk to our vets.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:19 am
Dear Miss Utah # 2, 10
If you haven’t already read rdknyvr # 17 you should. He has an excellent perspective on Amway for one who feels similar as you.
I don’t agree with your view that Amway has a terrible reputation. Any bad reputation that exists was caused by and is directed towards IBOs or former Distributors, who did not run their businesses properly and made bad decisions.
I’m very proud of Amway. Amway actually has a great reputation, it’s just that too often the person who has an opinion and makes statements about how Amway is this or that, is often saying, “I heard about this guy who lied to people, who didn’t make any money because all he did was talk and didn’t do anything, and he had bad breathe to boot!
In the last week (Sep. 27th and Oct. 4th) I have attended to 2 meetings where about 1/3 of those at the meetings were prospects taking their first look at the Quixtar business.
During the meetings, the speakers in both when describing Quixtar, said how it was a part of Alticor and along with it’s other global company Amway, had nearly 50 years of history backing it. They went on to describe various other aspects of the relationship.
After the meeting, as I went around to visit with some of the new prospects, listening to them I did not hear one negative comment, all were upbeat and positive.
It’s all how you position it, lead with facts and come from a position of strength and pride not weakness.
And if a question were to arise about “something, someone heard about someone, doing something wrong” were to be asked (intentional long wording :), I would simple state, ”Yes there have been some who operated their businesses wrong, but they are no longer IBOs. We don’t operate our business that way. Why don’t you learn more about how we operate and decide for yourself?”
Whenever I’ve said that, I’ve never had anyone say no. They’ve always been willing to learn more. Have all become IBOs? I’d love to say yes, but no, not all have…yet
But it’s not because of some “bad reputation” us IBOs think everyone is thinking about.
Honestly, I hear more self defeating comments from IBOs then I ever do from prospects!
Of course, it’s the same in any company I’ve worked at as well, we’re our own worst critics!
We all need to do a better job of telling OUR story, the true story, not the ones a few naysayers are telling.
We have a rich and wonderful story to tell including and especially about Amway.
I challenge you, no I double challenge you to see if maybe some of your views about Amway are wrong. If you don’t and you decide to quit, you’ll never know if maybe you didn’t know the real story.
Learn about all the great facts about Amway and Nutrilite. Get a better understanding of the founding principles and the ethics that from the start made this business great.
Visit www.amway.com and click on “Amway Business Opportunity”. Read about it’s rich history and vision.
Visit www.nutrilite.com and read about it’s commitments to quality food supplements and it’s rich history. Then go to ANY other company that sells “vitamins”, and see the difference!
Read the following books for a great perspective:
(Check with your upline if they have copies, or some might be available at your public library or through YOUR partner store Barnes and Noble.)
By Charles Paul Conn
The Possible Dream
The Winner’s Circle
An Uncommon Freedom
Promises to Keep
By rich DeVos
Believe!
Compassionate Capitalism
Jay Van Andel
An enterprising Life
By Shad Helmstetter
American Victory: The Real Story of Today’s Amway
If you really dig into the facts, you’ll see as I do, it’s truly an amazing business, albeit a few odd ducks every once in a while!
So in closing, I’d say, put your trust in the principles that built the Amway business, not people.
And remember to stay focused on your dreams! They still can come true! And you’ll have a blast along the way!
Best of success to you!
Ros
October 6th, 2007 at 12:27 am
Mick #38,
No there aren’t. We’re positive TEAM lost today, bigtime.
a2z #39,
They spelled it right, “greatful” isn’t a word, “grateful” is, just like they spelled it.
You Orrinites can’t catch a break today, can you? Don’t worry, tomorrow HAS to be better, because today was a total disaster.
But it’s nothing compared to the buzz-saw Orrin is about to walk into with the arbitration proceedings.
Keep up the good work, I’m sure Orrin is “greatful” for your “help”.
Chris #41,
Just a wee-bit touchy tonight, aren’t we Chris? Why is that, anyway? You’re the one whining about Amway, I welcome the name change.
Bub-bye Chris. So long, bub-bye.
At least we’re intelligent enough to spell “You’re” instead of “Your”, when we are attempting to insult the intelligence of others, as in your sentence, “Your intelligent beings, figure it out.” Not reading your books? Tsk, tsk.
Note to Amway: New and exclusive product idea - Develop butt glue that we can sell to the Orrinites to reconnect their bums after they laugh them off.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:27 am
I am very disappointed in the California judge. Quixtar’s arbitration is fair? Sure it is. Check out http://qssr.blogspot.com for a great explanation of Q’s arbitration.
Tex darling, your day is coming sweetie. I will try not to gloat too much.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:42 am
Alticor Media Blog Administrator,
If that comment that Chris wrote (#41) came from Tex, you’d surely be all over him for his inflammatory remarks. Does this blog have a list of rules of conduct that apply to everyone? Could it be posted in a permanent place on this site?
October 6th, 2007 at 1:00 am
Tex #40,
Your disrespect for an honorable soldier who risked his life to protect ALL Americans is not a great example of an honorable American citizen. I suggest being more mindful of your comments.
Regardless of this contract dispute, Americans are still Americans and we are ultimately ALL on the same side; lets not forget that.
There are enough real enemies out there.. if you want to rant and rave about something, perhaps you would incite more support if it were against communism or terrorism.
I wish the greatest success to all who are or have ever been a part of the Amway/Quixtar businesses; regardless of the current litigation, we are all people who are willing to do more than sit on their couch watching reruns until we die!
Lets have a more positive challenge… a race to 1 Million… you get a six month head start!
October 6th, 2007 at 1:00 am
February 9th, 2008 Mark your calendar boys and girls. Everything is already in place!!!!!
October 6th, 2007 at 1:13 am
LOL!!! Miss Utah, you really have the wrong perspective. I really dont understand why did this division had to knock you down. I guess you gotta work on your leadership alitle more. We were part of the legacy group when we merged with TEAM. We were alerady doing good without team, but they came and pushed us alitle. After all this mess happened with TEAM, we decided to just get out of the way and just keep going. Now that we’re out of the game we’re even stronger than ever. This past month my group grew more than ever with more pv. Its all in your attitude. What doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger.
October 6th, 2007 at 1:20 am
Hey Tex,
Somewhere you claimed that Orrin was looking out for number one, correct? Do you spend every waking moment analyzing Orrin and his actions? Or are you just playing God?
Let me ask you this - when you are hungry do you feed yourself or do you go to the local soup kitchen to serve those less fortunate?
Since we are all self-centered creatures, wouldn’t that make you a hypocrite? As Matthew 7:1-5 in the Message says: “Don’t pick on people, jump on their failures, criticize their faults - unless, of course, you want the same treatment. That critical spirit has a way of boomeranging. It’s easy to see a smudge on your neighbor’s face and be oblivious to the ugly sneer on your own. Do you have the nerve to say, ‘Let me wash your face for you,’ when your own face is distorted by contempt? It’s this whole traveling road-show mentality all over again, playing a holier-than-thou part instead of just living your part. Wipe that ugly sneer off your own face, and you might be fit to offer a washcloth to your neighbor.”
And what exactly are the details of this tool scandal you keep talking about? I bet if you work on your people skills, read some books (especially the Bible)and let it go - you would have true freedom?
October 6th, 2007 at 1:37 am
#27 Gary. Good post. Lots of truth.
Admin: Don & Randy “subject” to arbitration? Yes, if they want to keep their board positions, or get their IBO number back. I don’t see any other reason for arbitration, do you?
According to Q/A rules, NONE of the IBOs, including Chris and Orrin should have been terminated without at least arbitration first. That one mistake has been pointed out by judges in MI, TX and CA. Idiots at Corporation caused most of this mess in the first place.
That said, the CA lawsuit was shocking at first read, and not well put together. Shouldn’t have been filed when Alticor called the bluff.
October 6th, 2007 at 8:39 am
As a recently resigned Quixtar IBO, I find Alticore’s “spin” on the fired IBOs sickening. To think that I actually believed in this business model. Yikes! Well, the integrity train has left the station. We knew that at very worst, we would have a 6 month hiatus from overspending on. Amway can do it’s victory dance. But what is to come will make this a short spastic jig at best. You will hear from the TEAM and hear often. We know your business and have a much better idea. Non-compete will soon turn to can’t compete. As they have said so many times before -
“You can’t stop an idea whose time has come”
“The futures so bright, I gotta wear shades!”
October 6th, 2007 at 9:15 am
Ros, #50: Great comments. I like, “It’s all how you position it, lead with facts and come from a position of strength and pride not weakness.” And, “Honestly, I hear more self defeating comments from IBOs then I ever do from prospects!”
October 6th, 2007 at 9:30 am
Ros,
What state so you live in ?
October 6th, 2007 at 9:32 am
ROS #50
those books are 30 years old and contain amyway thinking not principal thinking or at least the principals that amway quixsand dont use anymore
get some success principal information.
October 6th, 2007 at 9:40 am
(annonucer voice)
comeback next time:
will tex toss another insult to a young person or maybe he will check his own spelling
will he ignore the blog with the facts in it?
or will he finally see the error of his thinking?
or did he go back to “agent smith” class with ros?
will he be cloned under another name?
come back to see next time in ibo in the river nile.
(music begins)
fades to commercial
(thought the brits would like that)
October 6th, 2007 at 9:54 am
james merritt #59
well put
if you did monthly personal volume of 100 pv depending on what you bought you would be saving $150 to 200 a month thats some money to leverage,
luna bars are really good and rockstar has a sugar free that isnt to bad either, well the tp you could anywhere cheaper.
but what if i have a water purifier oh no……lol
October 6th, 2007 at 9:57 am
42 lol
ya think lol
October 6th, 2007 at 10:13 am
The Judge did us a favor yesterday - no one wants to be part of the distasteful unprofessionalism Q/A has displayed over the past two months. It really does not matter what side you are on or who is wrong or right. History will show that TEAM has shown it’s leadership and are leading from the front. While Q/A leads from behind a mob of attorneys. Slice it up anyway you want, stomp on it - it does not matter. Q/A has shown their true colors.
October 6th, 2007 at 10:17 am
Oh! By the way slavery was abolished. Stop sending threats and saying you own IBO’s - especially those of us who have resigned. Yes we will wait out our time. But nothing can stop us, nothing.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:01 am
not the kings subject #49,
Blow it out your ear, ntks. I didn’t comment on his Vietnam service, I commented on how the current situation has no bearing on his service. Apples and oranges.
But I do appreciate you showing how much of a baby you are, asking for the moderator’s help rather than discuss the issues with me. At ease.
Ros #50,
How do you know the business doesn’t have mostly tool scammers left, even though Woodward and Co. are gone? Have you posted your upline’s tool profits and tool prices? Until you do, your flowery language falls like a thud in my ears.
LisBette #52,
I’m not your “darling” or “sweetie”.
However, I do agree the Quixtar arbitration process is flawed. Too bad Orrin’s highly paid lawyers didn’t argue keeping the case in court to prove that the formerly “unconscionable” process that had some changes made can now be considered “conscionable”. Maybe he can pay some more lawyers to take up this argument.
Aron #53,
Who cares what Chris wrote? I already put him in his place. All he did was demonstrate how wrong he is, that’s all. Keep it coming Chris.
amazed #54,
See comments to not the kings subject, above. Ditto to you. Orrin could have done a better service to mankind if he had sat in front of his TV watching reruns, because he and the other “kingpins” have ruined hundreds of thousands of lives, in order to make a few bucks for themselves.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:03 am
I have been reading this blog for more than a month now. Tex, you are both offensive and sad. Stand down indeed! “Catch a break…” - time will tell. Maybe you should sit down and put some pressure on YOUR brain.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:16 am
BC #56,
Who/what do you use for tools now?
A Million Baby! #57,
I don’t have to “spend every waking moment analyzing Orrin and his actions” to know he is a scam artist. I’m not playing God, but God is playing Orrin right now.
Give me a break on your Biblical distortions. Jesus never promoted lying down for injustices like the tool scam. If you don’t understand it, do some reading and come back to ask me specific questions. Being a Christian doesn’t require us to be a doormat or not call a spade a spade. Grow up.
Utah #58,
I think it’s too late to get their IBO and therefore Board positions back. If they want in, they will need to start over. Admin, please verify. Also, there are plenty of good reasons to take all these former IBO’s to arbitration. Even if the case went into the court system, Quixtar should have counter sued for the damages they caused. Same will be true in arbitration. Don’t be surprised if the arbitrator decides the 6 month and 2 year time periods aren’t long enough because of the damage the TEAM “leaders” have caused.
According to Q/A rules, IBO’s can be terminated for gross misconduct. If they want to be reinstated, they can go to arbitration, but even that is probably not going to happen, because neither the corporation, the IBOAI, or most IBO’s want these clowns back into our business.
That said, the CA lawsuit should never have been started, then Alticor wouldn’t have been put in the position to call their bluff.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:40 am
James Merritt #59,
You’re right, the integrity train has left the station, and the IBO’s are on it.
But you got left at the station to wait at least 6 months for the “new and improved Orrin scam train”. See ya.
Aron #60,
Yes, except glossing over the tool scam, which is where most upline makes most of their money, I liked Ros’ post as well.
dannie #61,
Probably the same state as you, the state of confusion. Or is it the state of delusion?
not the kings subject #62/3/4/5,
What we really need is a good book on the tool scam. But who needs a book when the facts are all over the internet?
Sounds like you have a lot of free time on your hands to come up with lame posts while waiting for the train with james.
In reply to “Ya think?” No, I don’t think he does think, and neithe do you.
In2WIN #66,
The Judge did you a favor yesterday, he put you out of your misery and fed you to the wolves, called arbitration. Who started the “distasteful unprofessionalism”? Orrin did. Did you expect Quixtar to lay down, or play nice, while being bashed by the Orrinites online? It really does matter what side you are on or who is wrong or right. History will show that TEAM has shown it’s true “leadership”, which consists of liars, cowards, and tool scammers. Other than that, really nice people who smile a lot and like to quote the Bible. and are leading from the front. While Q/A leads from behind a mob of attorneys. Slice it up anyway you want, stomp on it - it does not matter. Q/A has shown their true colors.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:47 am
It has been said that the best friend of truth is time and for all of us on Team time is on our side. There is a bigger purpose and plan behind everything going on. We all need to check our hearts and make sure our motives are pure. We will make a difference in our world! NOthing and no one can stop destiny from happening.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:53 am
Tex #71,
Pushed the “Submit Comment” key by mistake prior to finishing response to In2WIN #66, remainder below:
TEAM definitely isn’t leading from the front. From the gutter perhaps, not the front.
I think TEAM started the “mob of attorneys” parade. Problem is, they didn’t know what they were doing and got trampled by the Quixtar lawyers. They still got paid though, right Orrin? Orrin? Are you there? I forgot, Orrin is now in the soup kitchen. Eating, not serving.
Sure, Quixtar showed their true colors, just like any other corporation or individual would. Fight back when attacked. What else did you expect?
October 6th, 2007 at 11:55 am
In2WIN #67,
Slavery? Threats? You really don’t get it, do you?
October 6th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Tex#40
Your wrong again. I would fight along side of every leader on the Team. If you do not like the Tools then guess what do not do it. Guess what if you do not like The Team you have that right. I myself was in Amway for over 20 years before it became Quixtar. But I have the right to be on The Team. If you like Quixtar go for it. I will not bad mouth Quixtar for any reason. I have been there done that. Let’s face bad mouth evrything is not the answer. I will wait mt time and move on. Tex you have the right to do anything you wait yourself. Seems like you have a awful a lot to say. Maybe you should go out and start your own business and run it your. You do have that right. So please never tell me who I would fight along side of. You do not have that right.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
Tex#40
I did not finish this. Plus I did notice there are some spelling errors.
Maybe you should go out and start your own business and run it your way. You have all the answers my friend. But I am very glad you are not on my team.
October 6th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Alticor Media Blog Administrator,
While there are several who are civil and respectful when they disagree…
I must agree with
Aron Gannon Says: #53
The languge is rapidly deteriating.
What Chris wrote (#41) and Tex and others is going way over the top.
Casting insults and inciting.
Any point of credibility gets lost in there disrespectful remarks.
If they were to leave the insults out and just state their case, whether they agree or disagree, then we could have a civil discourse.
I would enjoy discussing differing opinions with anyone who would be willing to do that.
Thank you,
Ros
October 6th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
toomuchtex #42,
I said “neither”, not “both”.
Do you know the difference?
Aron #43,
I did the same thing last year, found you are right (except I used IBO prices), and posted the results on qblog.
freedom #44,
Good post. However, I think you need to explain why/how both of these statements are true: “you spend $50 more a month look at it as an investment and, if you really want to comparison shop, I will show you it’s really not more expensive.”
I think the bad-mouthing you have been hearing can be considered as enticing you to join whatever scam Orrin and his Orrinites are involving themselves in next. I suggest you call Quixtar and offer your input.
ntks #45,
You completely missed the point when I said “I gained a lot of exposure of the overall tool scam, at all the Orrinites expense.” Yes, I use the same tools you do, but I and our group pay a tiny fraction as much for the tools. Our incentive is the Quixtar business, not the tools. Just like as is shown in the plan, imagine that. The exposure I referred to is the Orrinites contributed, significantly, to the facts regarding the MASSIVE tool scam profits.
You won’t be interested when you see our plan, it is moral and ethical.
That’s right, it is our job to educate “joe public”. With the facts, not a scam.
The corporation has had an issue with the tool scam since at least far back as 1983, haven’t you ever heard/read the “Directly Speaking” recordings? Also, it isn’t so much the content, which is why we are still using the tools, but the price, resulting secret profit, and incentives the above produces. Almost 25 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!
I have started the Quixtar University course, and it is excellent.
The “the principals and methods here can not be guaranted, we do however hope they will inspire you and help you have a profitable business” is a cop-out. It is a necessary legal statement that covers up the scam. Just like being “accredited” puts a “stamp of approval” on the approved tool scams.
As I have stated elsewhere, there are many competitively priced products. Besides, Orrin is going to regret his “I would bury the products in my back yard, who cares about the prices” and similar comments when he gets to arbitration. Face it, his goose is cooked.
No, I won’t have to use Amway when contacting, where did you get that idea?
I have no problem paying for a system, as long as it isn’t a scam. Did you ever notice the prices on the Quixtar DVD? They were a fraction of what TEAM and the other tool scams charge.
The cost of the training is a drop in the bucket compared to the product prices. They do the online training once, and all you need is an internet connection.
Yes, I really show the plan. Really. Just not right now.
“Never mind, or you never had a mind?” LOL PEOPLE SKILLS do you use these fine tuned abilities when you out prospectin tex???? No, I save them for people like you.
It should be abundantly clear I care. Who else do you see standing up against the tool scam?
No need to help me prospect, I do fine on my own.
My eyes green, the dollar of money. I’m glad they are “quiting” (check your spelling, there are 2 “t’s”), who wants Orrinites around?
Actually, I don’t have to do much kicking, they seem to be doing a pretty good job by themselves.
What makes you think Amway has to contribute all of the tool content, and IBO’s none of the content? You’re a joke. Just not a very funny one.
What makes you think the blog will be “done”? When the overall tool scam is fixed, I will build my business, and use YOUR comments to show how stupid the Orrinites are.
“the funny thing is tex, its all to clear to them.. read what they right you can dismiss it all day, but i think we have a nutrilite/SA8 history repeat sproating up.”
The funny thing is, let’s list the error you made in a single sentence:
1. “The” should be capitalized,
2. My name, “Tex”, is capitalized,
3. The word “to” should have been “too”,
4. The word “its” should have been “it’s”,
5. The word “right” should have been “write”,
6. The word “i” should have been “I”, and
7. The word “sproating” should have been “sprouting”.
On top of that, even with all of these corrections, the sentence makes zero sense.
Class dismissed - WITH PREJUDICE!
October 6th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
#39 a2z - you may want to brush up on your spelling. The admin did spell grateful correctly, you on the other hand did not.
October 6th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Aron Gannon,
# 43 Price comparison - Good call on the price comparison. I have found much the same.
# 53 I appreciate your comments regarding a code of conduct for posting comments. Definitely needed since some are not willing to be civil and respectful.
# 60 Thank you.
Best regards,
Ros
October 6th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
Lee #69,
When I need your advice, I will notify you. At ease.
freedom #72,
It has been said that the best friend of truth is time and for all of you Team time is not on your side. The results of arbitration could be to extend the usual 6 month/2 year waiting periods, because of the stupid moves the Orrinites have taken.
There is a bigger purpose and plan behind everything going on, and it’s called truth, honesty, ethics, and morals. New concepts to the Orrinites.
We all need to check our hearts and make sure our motives are pure, which they are. Bury the Orrinites.
We will make a difference in our world? You already did, you are a great example of the tool scam, thanks very much for “making a difference”.
NOthing and no one can stop destiny from happening? Really? The tool scam information on the internet caused Orrin to change from “Team of Destiny” to “TEAM”, didn’t it?
October 6th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
OMG this is ridiculous…if you spent the time building a business as blogging, I would say 1 or 2 of you should be diamonds by now :o)
October 6th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
dannie Says: # 61
California. Why do you ask?
Ros
October 6th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
Oneforall #82,
You may want to check your Ten Commandments, number 3.
God
October 6th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Oneforall #82,
I will spend my time building a business, AFTER the tool scams are shut down, as has been done in the UK.
Tex
October 6th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
tex,
Enough with the tool scam non-sense. Is that really you’re reason or just the rational lie that you tell youself? You’re gonna wait till the tool scam is fixed huh? I think that shows how badly you want it fixed, so bad you’re willing to. . . wait for somebody else to do it. Which are you commited to? Excuses or results?
Look it, when I took business law in school, they told me I needed to go to classes (3 hour classes) twice a week, I needed to buy this book that cost about 100 bucks. I know whoever set up the classes was making money off me, and I know the person who sold me the book (which was not the school it’s self but a privately owned book store that the school allowed to be on campus, many students didn’t even know the book store was privatly owned) was making money off it to. You know how good I am at business law today? I suck. That book was a waste of money and those classes were a waste of tiome (and money), I’m gonna wait till this scam is fixed before I go back to school. In fact I’m going to make websites where I’ll demand to see the profits made from these “educational materials” and where I’ll discourage others from buying them.
Which is tex? Excuses or results? what do you want to die with? (Not a threat, just saying one day tex, like everyone, will pass on and he will get to look back on a life of excuses or results, but not both, so I am simply asking which he wants to see : ) .
October 6th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Administrator,
I have to agree with Ros. This blog site has turned into nothing but a grade school playground kids fight. There is very little actual discusson about topics, just namecalling and critisizing.
1. Is anybody actually learning anything from the garbage that is being posted.
2. If anyone from the ‘outside’ that might be looking in read 90% of what is said here they surely would come away with a negative view of both Q/A and TEAM people.
3. The majority of Q/A IBO’s and TEAM people are great people I am sure. But the handfull of posters here are giving the good people a bad name and rep.
Don’t you think it is time to put a stop to all this and lay down some guidelines about topic, civility, etc. and enforce them? Something like making sure that there is no use of ‘handles’. If you are too ashamed to put your real name on what you are posting, then don’t let them post.
There are a couple posters that have always tried to keep things ‘clean’ IBOFB and Ros. There are some others, but their names escape me now.
Am ask you, please clean this place up!
Dwight Spaulding
October 6th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
So Tex, since we have all gotten to know you so well - perhaps you would like to introduce yourself - you know - your real name.
The corporation must be paying you over time for all of your posts - perhaps you could spend some of that hard earned money with Quixtar….. I hear they have a lot of inventory this year.
October 6th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
I for one am happy that we had such a quick ruling in CA. I know this is far from over, however it is progressing quicker than thought.
There are very few people who have the full picture of how Team vs other diamond organizations ran their businesses. There are some of us who have seen both sides of the fence by the merging of our LOS with Team.
People who have only been in Team have no understanding of how other organizations run and if you have never been apart of Team functions/opens/BSM you have no idea how Team functioned.
I personally know and have met a lot of IBO’s formerly with Team who are not following Orrin & Chris and are staying with Quixtar/Amway. They are happy to realize that there are so many IBO’s out there who DO retail and who do promote products. I recently did an EXPO at a business networking and so many Team IBO’s were fascinated with all of the product BSM we had promoting the products. They had never seen them or new they existed!
Some other Team IBO’s complimented us on how we are out in the public promoting the products like they have just recently learned they should be doing ……as well as leadership development. It is not all about leadership development. All though that is vital so is moving of volume, and not at the rate of 150pv per month like Team taught. There is such a huge customer base volume that most Team IBO’s don’t understand. They are used to Team open’s where they hear……….”if you eat and drink you are quilified to do this business with the DOT1″……as they promote personal consumption. There is such an easier way to success when you log in daily and see your pv growing with customer volume. Or get an email from corporate saying…..you have a new custmer registered. It is awesome! Especially now with the new Simply Nutrilite and Artistry Essentials! Have you all tried the new Twist Tubes that you add to your water bottle? Stawberry-Kiwi with immunities is my favorite and priced great at $.55 each!
My newest customer base are resigned Team IBO’s who still want XS, Nutrilite, Rhodiola, Artisty and eSpring filters. They need the eSpring filters and that is great pv/bv!
My heart goes out to all of the confused IBO’s affiliated with Team. Know that there are many IBO’s feel for you and the position you are in. Find an IBO who is not affiliated with Team and get a different perspective on how other LOS run their organizations. It is night and day different than what you know and you will have a clearer understanding of how to proceed. Like did you know that some LOS have phone conference calls that you can listen in on to learn from the “best of the best” on how to retail products? Fabulous ideas that I have done and seen results from! There is soooooo much more that Team affiliated IBO’s have no knowledge on. Seek the out the knowledge before you make any descision to leave.
Let’s all commit to increasing our pv, customer volume and sponsoring to prove that some sales loss that will occur with some Team affiliated IBO’s leaving, did not affect our bottom line! There is strength in numbers and if we all increase a little it will show!
Kathy
“Do your best….but when you know better, you do better….this comes from knowledge and wisdom.”
October 6th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
tex you sound alot like jody victor …. trying to compensate for saying the board would protect the ibo
October 6th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
i do agree moderator the comments throughout the blog by tex are ridiculous childish and not bringing an relivant information to the blog
October 6th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
not the kings subject Says: # 63
or did he go back to “agent smith” class with ros?
Ros said:
That’s great!
I loved the movie Mr. Smith goes to Washington! It’s a classic!
James Stewart was great! He’s one of my favorite actors!
Yes, I cheer for the underdog, and try to right wrongs as I can!
Wishing you the best!
Ros
October 6th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Tex,
You go on and on about Team’s tool scam. Break it down for me, explain this scam.
From your posts you don’t really seem to understand how Team works. Team is also sick of the profits big pins make off tools while many many make nothing, that’s why they fixed it. I’ve never been promoted to buy tools I don’t need, in fact I’ve heard many Team leaders say “if you’re not gonna use them, don’t buy them, we don’t want you have a bunch of tools just to have a bunch of tools” If they were running a tool scam, why say that? Why talk about dropping prices on tools and even making it possible to download audio’s from a free website? Why tex? Why would another leader in Team (before aligning with Team) have put audio recordings of his entire major function on his website (which required a 1-time charge of 25 bucks to access) when in the past he had put major functions on CD and sold them for 50 bucks. How much revenue did he pass up on making that call? Tex, please answer these questions.
October 6th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
Kathy,
Great post! Thank you for encouraging people to get as much information as they can before making a decision.
Tex,
My guess is you’re trying to get around in LA with a map of Chicago, you’re tool scam paradigm fails miserably to address many facts (listed in my previous post). That’s a huge indication you don’t have all the information you need. Please educate yourself. It’s not you I’m concerned with, it’s people who don’t really understand much and are trying to figure out more that might believe you, that’s who I’m concerned about. If you listen to Tex, you’ll end up unhappy with your results. Not saying that I have all the answers, I do not.
October 6th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
(Sigh.) Vitriol bores us. Substance? Now we’re talking. Let’s hear some.
October 6th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
#20 spartan
quit wasting your time and money. TEAM will never be more than a group of brainwashed followers who will never learn to think for themselvs.
October 6th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
#96
Do you know him personally? If not, i,d get rid of that id and start acting like a business person. This blog is starting to become a bunch of childish commentators looking for a reaction to their post. Guess you got me on that one #96 because you are so wrong. We are not brainwashed, we love the people we are associated with and I for one have never met a better group of people… And btw, currently I am not wasting any money.
October 6th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Tex,
Did you in the past complain that the Team failed to mention Quixtar in the plan until the prospect was signing paper work? Was that one of the whistle blowing subjects, or am I mistaken?
Please refer to #57, maybe you’ll get it this time. I am continuing to pray for you. My, you sure are wrapped up in this vicious cycle.
AEM #93, I like your stuff. I asked Tex the same thing about the details of the tool profit scam (so to speak), and still waiting for a comment on that. Good luck, all I got was him telling me in such the Christianly manner to grow up. He knows me oh so well too, ya know after one blog message and all.
October 6th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
AEM #86, Oh yeah, that was also an awesome illustration. It is so true. Poor Ron and Toby Hale. I guess you have to love ‘em where they are at.
October 6th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Substance, what a concept! Here is some… For those who intend on building a business with Amway… Do it! I wish you all the success in the world!
For those who wish to not build a business with Amway, relax… the negative bloggers are just jealous that you are not afraid of the unknown like they are!
For Alticor and company, I have resigned my IBO simply because the pending business model does not fit with my business goals. FYI… TEAM has consistently been promoting that everyone follow the rules. I would greatly appreciate the legal right to build a business that does match my business goals without having to wait; that doesn’t mean that I won’t wait, it would just be a kind gesture to let people who want to leave, leave; with no strings attached.
You want to have a good name for Amway; one simple thing that would help would be to release the TEAM from the non-compete. This would not cost Alticor anything that is not going to be lost anyway, and it might even create some wonderfully positive press from the TEAM as they thank Alticor for it, publicly!
Dick Devos, you want support for elections… show your support for freedom by helping to end this mess!
TEAM never wanted a fight, and there is still time to repair the broken relationships!
October 6th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
one more thing…
Imagine the headline:
“TEAM CEO announced today that TEAM has surpassed their goal of reaching 1 Million registered in their leadership development system. TEAM has publicly thanked the Alticor companies for their kindess in releasing the former Quixtar IBOs who expressed a desire not to build an Amway business. Amway also announced today that sales for 2007 have exceeded the previous years’ sales by nearly $250,000,000.00! TEAM has been approved as a BSM provider for Amway distributors after the two companies put their differences aside and foudn a true win-win between them. Although the TEAM/Amway BSMs are limited, there is peace in Michigan! Dick Devos is credited with successfully negotiating the peaceful solution and has gained many new supporters in his campaign efforts.
October 6th, 2007 at 6:25 pm
AEM #86,
I agree, enough with the tool scam non-sense. Yes, that is the reason the business has not grown in the U.S. for at least a decade or two. I’m not waiting, I’m advocating the end of the scam, and am glad the UK DTI has taken the action against the scam. If I could fix it by myself, I would have done it already, but I am a PART of the solution. Just doing my part. I am committed to results, the Orrinites have shown they are committed to excuses.
Did your business law school tell you to scam your fellow “business partners” and “teammates”, by telling you to pay some of them and to require them to sign a contract to keep the scam secret from the others, and imply the income came from Quixtar, but most of it came from the tools? What you described is apples and oranges. You suck at the Quixtar business, and you always did.
I feel very good about looking back on my life, as I was part of fixing a known problem that has been around for more than a quarter of a century, and cost literally millions of former and current Distributors/IBO’s 100’s of millions to billions of dollars. I fully expect to hear, “Well done, my good and faithful servant.” And that doesn’t even cover the sucessful honest, ethical, and moral business I expect to put together after all of this mess is swept into the sewer drains of history.
October 6th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
Tex,
Why do you keep running around my questions? You just insult when I want to have an adult conversation. I want to know how often you look out for number one as you say Orrin is only doing. You seem to know him so well.
I have another question, did you pay for your Quixtar University and how much was it?
I also want to know your thoughts on the Jay Factor scam. Here’s some facts for you on that one - the products run through Alticor pull three times higher margins than most retail stores. What have the fearless leaders of Amway done besides fly their airplanes and build a hotel. For others right, yeah, so they will spend more money staying in the ritzy hotel and stuff the families pockets.
October 6th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Excellant posts amazed. In total agreement, couldn’t of said it any better and I won’t try. :o)
October 6th, 2007 at 6:49 pm
I guess this is a bit of a setback for Orrin’s plan for world domination. Yes, somehow out of the ashes he will somehow manage to create the largest business in the world and will pass Walmart.
As some folks wrote early on in this saga, very few people can understand Orrin because his genius is so far ahead of mere mortals.
Well, this mere mortal thinks that right now Orrin has a firm grip on an empty sack.
May God deliver onto Orrin the financial disruption he has led so many thousands of his “true believer’s” in.
I think of the many dispicable things I have seen about how this cult leader operates, there are two things that are glaring red lights that show his lack of character: (1) he continued to STP and have his group do so after the lawsuit - so he’s willing to continue to recruit people into the business he claims is illegal; and (2) he puuled other lines of sponsorship into his TEAM just months before pulling this stunt. Obviously he wanted the strength in numbers and could care less that these folks were unknowingly signing onto the “TEAM Kamikaze” flight.
If he’s an example of “visionary leadership” then may God have mercy on us all
October 6th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
How about an olive branch, Quixtar?
One final thought. It would be VERY RESPECTABLE of ALticor/Quixtar/Amway to offer “amnesty” once the last few cases are settled.
In other words, with these stunning losses there must be many TEAM people who realize they hitched their wagon to the wrong horse and now deeply regret choosing the Orrin cult over their business.
Perhaps Quixtar could give a one time “your ex wants you back” offer. The fact is MANY of these people were trying to make the best decision they could and, after years of loyally believing their upline, chose to gamble on Orrin in the very short window they had to make a decision.
October 6th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Dwight #87,
Haven’t you seen my “Little Miss Goodie Two Shoes” discussion?
In2WIN #88,
You go first. What’s your name?
I think there will be some good deals, but not just in the near term, but long term as well. Too bad many of the TEAM IBO’s quit, now they have to start all over again.
Kathy #89,
Well written. There Ros and Dwight, how’s that?
steven utah soon to be former ibo #90/1,
I think the IBOAI Board is less than useless. Jody is just another lying cowardly “kingpin”.
And you need a longer name.
First you slam me by accusing me of being JV, then you say I am being childish. Shame on you.
Ros #92,
I’m not sure if I fully understand your comment, I’ll just assume that was your usual “Miss Goodie Two Shoes” type of comment.
AEM #93,
I’ve written about the scam ad nauseum. Why don’t YOU read my posts and ask specific questions from my posts?
October 6th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Tex #70.
Alticor had the lawsuit hours before it was filled. That happened after Chris and Orrin were terminated against the rules.
1. August 9th Meeting went south. Chris and Orrin proposed quietly leaving.
2. 1.5 hrs later Orrin and Chris are terminated based on bad info Alticor thought they had. They didn’t come back to discuss options. Stupid Move.
3. Attorney from Alticor got a copy of the proposed CA lawsuit, not to be filed for, I believe 1.5 hrs or more. No response.
4. Lawsuit filed.
5. Q/A terminated without arbitration anyone they thought were part of the suit. Some may have quit first.
6. Q/A sued Orrin & Chris
7. IBOAI sued to keep 3% quiet along with other items.
8. Q/A started giving other team leader IBOs the choice of being terminated or leaving team. This move caused the most problem and was in violation of Q/A rules.
The rest is well known. Based on above Q/A blew this whole thing.
October 6th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
This whole mess could have been solved simply: June 2007.
Alticor tells the IBOAI that they want to change the name of Quixtar back to Amway, prior to making that final. The Board, says it won’t support that decision. Q/A says that they will do the same thing that was done in 1999, give the IBOs the choice of staying in the current Quixtar, with positive moves on pricing and products like they have been promising, or change to the new Amway, with the new corporate eduction system and new retail rules. IBOs can choose and it wont’ mess up the LOS. If Corporate does a good job of creating a possitive Amway brand in the US/Canada, etc. then the IBOs will switch, if they don’t they wont. This choice would remain for at least 3 years.
Did Q/A do the honorable thing, NO.
Alticor caused most of this whole mess by terminating or threatening to terminate IBOs without “due process” including the arbitration as required by Quixtar’s rules. All judges have pointed out that Quixtar has a valid Arbitration clause and it needs to be followed. All judges have told Quixtar that it too must follow its own rules. Q/A has not been, and the judge in California is making this clear.
Alticor has been acting like jerks for the last 2 months at least.
I have read posts from IBOs of 40 years that think just that. I certainly think so.
October 6th, 2007 at 8:04 pm
AEM #94,
You guessed wrong. Have you listened to the “Directly Speaking” recordings? Everything Rich DeVos said about the tool scam is still true.
Admin #95,
My guess is #96 doesn’t count, although I agree with the concept.
A Million Baby #98,
I already addressed #57, it was garbage. I also previously mentioned I reported the Open and Seminar problems to Quixtar and met with some of their attorneys.
A Million Baby #99,
Poor Ron and Toby Hale? Are you serious? Ron high-tailed it in typical “kingpin” fashion when he wouldn’t answer the simple question of how much tool profit he made. Open your eyes.
amazed #100,
TEAM has consistently been promoting that everyone follow the rules, except they had a multi-year record of repeatedly breaking several of them.
You don’t get a “special deal”, wait 6 months like everyone else and stop whining.
You can’t buy votes for Dick DeVos by proposing to break the non-compete rules. You haven’t seen ANYTHING yet, just wait until Orrin and Co. gets dragged into arbitration, shield the eyes of the women and children, it’s going to be ugly.
The time is long passed to fix broken relationships, Orrin ensured that with his illegal pyramid lawsuit.
October 6th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
Alticor Media Blog Administror
Why would you let some one have a handle like #96
it’s tasteless, tacky and disrespectful to alot of other bloggers. Oh yeah, you work for Alticor so anything goes when someone wants to bash one of your detractors. I forgot.
October 6th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
A Million Baby #103,
I always look out for number 1, but not at the expense of number 2, 3, 4, 5, ….
QU is free. And very well done.
You don’t get it, do you? Quixtar isn’t just a retailer, they are also a manufacturer, distribution network, and sales outlet. They have far more skin in the game than any other entity. They spend about 1/3 of the cost to manufacture and deliver the products, pay about 1/3 to IBO’s, and EARN about 1/3 for profit. Sounds fair to me. Get a clue.
THAT’s what the fearless leaders of Amway done besides fly their airplanes and build a hotel. For others right, yeah, so they will spend more money staying in the ritzy hotel and stuff the families pockets. What’s wrong with that, at least they aren’t being accused of having secret tool scam contracts, like TEAM has (or had, because all is exposed now, thanks to the TEAM lawsuit. Thanks, Orrin, you finally did something with your life.)
October 6th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
Kathy #89
Congratulations!!! I’m excited you’re doing the product demos and retailing and learning!!! Every month I find new products (some we’ve had for years) that I didn’t know about that I love!!! I love learning about new products too (and am thrilled w/ the Simply Nutrilite & Artistry Essentials) and can’t wait to see what’s next!!! Best of luck!!!
October 6th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
Actually, #111 Mark, you’re right. We should not have let that one pass.
October 6th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
JimZ #105,
Well said.
JimZ #106,
Temporary insanity plea?
Utah #108,
Alticor had the lawsuit hours before it was filed. You consider that a lot of time to respond to blackmail?
That happened after Chris and Orrin were terminated against the rules? You need to read the rules, probably for your first time, as they were NOT terminated against the rules.
1. Chris and Orrin blackmailed Quixtar, wanted to break even more rules on their way out, and wanted to keep this secret. This is far far from “proposed quietly leaving”.
2. 1.5 hrs later Orrin and Chris are terminated based on the above info Alticor was given by Chris and Orrin. They didn’t come back to discuss options. Smart Move.
3. Attorney from Alticor got a copy of the proposed CA lawsuit, not yet filed , I believe 1.5 hrs or more. No response. You call 1.5 hours a lot of time to reply to blackmail and a request to break even more rules on the way out?
4. Lawsuit filed.
5. Q/A terminated without arbitration anyone they thought were part of the suit. Some may have quit first. Good move.
6. Q/A sued Orrin & Chris, another good move.
7. IBOAI sued to keep 3% quiet along with other items. Good move. Although these numbers shouldn’t be secrets at the IBOAI level, because if the Board really represented the IBO’s, we should know this information as well. So in a way, I’m glad this information came out.
8. Q/A started giving other team leader IBOs the choice of being terminated or leaving team. This move caused the most problems and was the right thing to do, to protect the integrity of the business. What violation of Q/A rules do you think this is?
The rest is well known. Based on above Orrin blew this whole thing.
October 6th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
Utah #109,
This whole mess could have been solved simply: Early 1983.
Rich DeVos actually follows through with what he said on his “Directly Speaking recordings, and shuts down the tool scams.
I have already responded to most of your fantasy story of June 2007 in other posts.
October 6th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
Mark #112,
I agree, they should have added the word “really” in the middle.
October 6th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
NL #114,
You are off topic, this is the CA case DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE thread. As you were.
October 6th, 2007 at 10:11 pm
Just in time, as one tool scam case gets dismissed, another one surfaces: http://www.amquix.info/britt_skaggs.html
Why would it cost $2 million to put together some distribution software in the first place, isn’t there some off the shelf stuff that can do this?
October 6th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
big ego was inscripted in their toobm
sorry for the ones led to “heavens gate”
or was it destiny iland
October 6th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
Second notice, there is some HOT tool scam details in the above lawsuit, a must read for every IBO.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
Can anyone quote to me exactly which rule it was (only answer if you have the rule number) that team broke by building depth. That is what has been touted, so who can reply?
Tex - I will come back here 1 year from now to see where you are at then. We can discuss then TEAM, and our proven system. Oh, and Tex, can you please tell me what our tools cost, what the profits are, what the profit sharing is, or are you just rambling in ignorance? Perhaps you will come back with a smart remark to try and divert the attention off the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about. You seem to be the ‘expert’ on everything with TEAM and how it is so bad, so prove your knowledge with specifics… or can’t you do that..? Let’s see what your really made of… if you can give me a strait direct answer…
#96 - I can see by your name that you could use our training system. But that’s ok, you will be helping him be rich soon too, just like the people that didn’t like Sam Walton to begin with. One of them even became Wal-Mart’s CEO. Although if we were going by that I think that Tex is the most likely canidate.
JUST IN CASE ANYONE FORGOT, THE ISSUES ARE: PRICES. Quixtar is overpriced.
PROPERTY. We are NOT Quixtar property.
October 7th, 2007 at 12:06 am
Ros,
Just curious…you have been pleasant even when disagreeing with Team members and have made several fair points….wondered what area of the country you hailed from.
Thank you for the respectful tone you have set. I know Tex has HUGE issues with a lot of what Woodward et al stans for and he has that right. But is possible to express those same concerns in a way that is not denigrating, insulting and full of ridicule. You have !
PS…Tex…nope, not a love fest for Ros….though I’m sure you’ll poke fun at the post. I haven’t changed my mind about my position in this. Just thought I’d practice my people skills & give credit where credit is due.
October 7th, 2007 at 12:06 am
ps….yes, Tex. I KNOW stands is spelled stanDs…just a lousy typist..not a lousy speller !
October 7th, 2007 at 12:10 am
my bad….it really IS late…also missed a word…should say “But it is possible …..”
just hate to leave any little thing open to chance when you’re ( that’s you’re, not your…bugs me too ) saying anything Tex gets a charge out of. He is so sure that we’re ALL uneducated, lazy, stupid people. He can’t imagine that many of us all VERY well read and that we can spell “real goooooooooooood” !