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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
October 5th, 2007 @ 4:02 pm ET…
California: Case dismissed
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
We received official word from California federal court this afternoon that Woodward et al v. Quixtar has been dismissed.
The dismissal deals a severe blow to Orrin Woodward’s federal class-action legal attack. Woodward and other plaintiffs cynically claimed that Quixtar was an illegal pyramid scheme in an attempt to avoid their contractual obligations, embarrass the company and damage its IBOs. The company adamantly denied the charges and noted that a Michigan court had already ordered the plaintiffs to arbitrate their claims.
This is a major victory, and we are grateful that the judge agreed with our arguments in the case.
In his ruling, Feess noted that “the Michigan court has already enjoined Plaintiffs from violating the covenants not to compete and not to solicit and sent the case to arbitration.” He later added, “[T]he Court agrees with the Michigan court and believes the parties’ arbitration agreement is valid and binding.
“[T]he court GRANTS Quixtar’s motion to dismiss on declaratory relief abstention grounds and the matter is hereby DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE.”
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor
October 5th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Calling all Orrinites, head for them thar hills.
Is this Quixtar arbitration or other arbitration?
October 5th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Well, being a former TEAM member, I am fortunate enough to say THANKS A LOT TEAM FOR HELPING ME BUILD A BUSINESS AND COLLAPSING IT IN A MATTER OF 6 MONTHS!!! WHAT BS!!! So much for “going to a million”. I am so sick and tired of hearing TEAM members in my direct upline saying “business as usual”! What a crock. I truely believed that Orrin and Chris wanted to do the best thing for us but now I realize that they just want to charge people approximately $170.00 per month (including cds, books and don’t forget the seminars and opens) to help them become leaders. Leaders of what? An illegal pyramid that by there own definition of “illegal pyramid” has nothing to do with retailing any product. I won’t be associated with Amway because that is not what I registered in, but on the other hand I won’t participate in TEAM either!!!
-Former Disgruntled TEAM IBO
October 5th, 2007 at 4:29 pm
Miss Utah #2,
Welcome to reality.
Too bad you blame A/Q for Orrin’s and your uplines actions, however.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Six months…big deal…it’s what we should have done to start with !
October 5th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
Tex: Easy, easy.
And what did you mean by “other” arbitration?
Folks: Judge Feess’ order is now available online.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Oh my, Oh my, Oh my, Oh my!!!
October 5th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
By the way, “dismissed with prejudice” means that Team is now liable for Alticor’s costs. Hmmm.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
dannie #4,
For once I agree, but Orrin’s lawyers don’t, they cleaned up.
Admin #5,
There was discussion in one of the other lawsuits, I think the Ron Simmons, Texas #1 lawsuit, that indicated the arbitration would occur outside of the Quixtar rules.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
You don’t think they have a backup plan?
October 5th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Sorry I should have included that I was building quixtar for 2 1/2 years, but combined with TEAM 6 months ago. I already had a good sized business before the “merger” as I call it. Amway has a terrible reputation and although it is not entirely their fault I will not represent them, my personal choice. I don’t blame A/Q I think the whole deal stinks.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Ouch. Dismissed… with prejudice…. guess it’s back to the drawing board for team.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
oh yeah…they have one
October 5th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
There is always two sides to every story
October 5th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
rdknyvr #7,
I don’t think that is what the term means. It means they can’t return with the same issue.
revolution #9,
They definitely have a “back up” plan. But I think it is more accurately called an all-out retreat.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
TIME TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED
WE ARE IN2WIN and nothing Q/A does will stop us
October 5th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
Admin,
Since Randy Haugen and Don Wilson removed themselves from the lawsuit, does this mean they won’t go to arbitration?
October 5th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Miss Utah, I wasn’t happy with the name change either… and I didn’t register in Amway — I registered in Quixtar. But perhaps think about giving it all a rest for a couple months, and observe what’s coming out from Quixtar, and consider whether there just might be enough change to make “Amway” workable. I would really prefer staying with the “Quixtar” name, but under whatever name, it’s the best business opportunity out there, in my opinion, and I can deal with the rebranding.
And in case you haven’t been there, check out IBOFightBack’s site… he’s pretty much pro-Amway and based in Europe, but just about everyone with any opinion posts there. It’s funny, stimulating, rarely boring, lots of info from around the world, and it’s a worthwhile piece of your “due diligence” before making a final decision.
http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/
With appreciation,
October 5th, 2007 at 5:19 pm
Does anyone even bother to read the court documents before frantically typing away on their keyboards? All this says is that they aren’t going to hear the matter in California since it was deemed to be the same issue already decided in the Michigan case. California decided not to exercise jurisdiction. So it goes to arbitration.
Let’s not forget what this action was about—the non-competition agreement ONLY.
This court order does NOT address the intolerable name change back to Amway, or the overpriced products and proft margins, or the ridiculous “scare tactic” emails from Q/A, or the “proper” method of building teams, or system tools, and so many other issues that have recently surfaced. Those are all separate issues that aren’t going to be “fixed” in any court.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
Well, it sucks. But it ain’t the first time the court has been wrong. Looks like I am gonna have 6 months of vigorous studying before we get to start our next adventure.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
ONE STEP CLOSER TO FREEDOM!!!
Ten years from now you will see how this was the begining of the largest corporation in the world. And I’m not talking about the one that has stayed at about 1.2 billion in revenue over the last 26 years!
FIRED UP!!!
UNITED WE STAND!!
October 5th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
That’s good news for the corporation.
IBO
October 5th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Interesting… The judge didn’t say it wasn’t a pyramid scheme, he just said the arbitration contract was already ruled on, so they HAD to arbitrate.
October 5th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
cmon.people.think, spartan - I read the case. The judge essentially said he agreed with the Michigan judge - contracts matter, in other words, the contract stands. TEAM was claiming it didn’t stand because it’s an illegal enterprise, ie illegal pyramid. How could the contract still be standing if he didn’t make a decision on the illegal pyramid issue? In fact, he pretty much said he considered the charge so pointless as to not come in to consideration.
October 5th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
Thank God this is over. Now the Great Shepherd (Orrin Woodward) can herd his sheep out of this forum AND our lives and retreat.
I noticed that in some blogs, TEAM members were calling themselves Spartacus…well, consider this court decision your “Appian Way”.
We say to the flock…….goodbye and fare thee well.
October 5th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Leaving a legacy!
I am Spartacus.
October 5th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
Hot off the presses.
October 5th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Miss Utah - I agree with you. Our organization affiliated with Team in July, then the bomb hit. Our upline said they had no idea anything was amiss. Nothing contrary from Team, nor from A/Q. So, question is did Team “leaders” just want to welcome more IBOs into the fold to move more Team tools? This was obviously brewing for a long time.
We had acheived Platinum and had a growing business. However, like most, we could not get any traction in the last several years. We were initially excited by the Team approach and believed we could have some direction in the growth of our business and more people would be successful.
Our upline also said “business as usual.” However I can not reconcile in my mind partnering with people who say MY business is illegal, operates unethically, and is not viable any longer. Also, I can not tell a new person that this is a great opportunity - when today I really have my doubts. None of us truly know what the Amway business will be like in 18 months. I personally beleive that Platinums and above will be operating more like sales managers with a sales force with minimum sales requirements and a bundle of compliance rules. I have a job now, not looking for another one. It may be great for some people, just not most people.
I think Orrin is a the guru of self-promotion and does not have the interests of IBOs at heart. Team’s actions have made it more difficult to build the business. Also, A/Q is not blameless. I built the business pre-Quixtar and it is not an experience I want to repeat. There are many other opportunties out there, and why someone would purposefully choose to build under such negative Amway baggage - I don’t understand but best of luck to you. It was rough the first time around.
Also, we have bought products for well over a decade without question. For one reason, we had been profitable. For the first time this week we purchased comparable products from Meijer. 4 products - hand soap (3), toothpaste, dish soap (2), and toilet paper. Just four different products. And we did not buy the cheap generic stuff either. Crest, Dawn, Charmin Ultra Soft, etc. We saved over $42! And that was BEFORE shipping costs added in! It was an epiphany for us. We had watched the pricing and PV ratio slip for years. I think also A/Q knows that they have lost the competitive edge in the home care/laundry care business and that is why now all efforts are focused on Nutrilite, Artistry, and Ribbon gift albums.
I do not agree with Team that we should compete with Walmart - price is not everything. But, you have to be competitive. The A/Q versions of these four products are not that superior to merit taking over $42 more out of my pocket. Quality is important when balanced in perspective with competitive market forces.
October 5th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Sooner IBO #24,
The real Shepherd drove the pigs over the cliff, you would be wise to check Orrin for a hoofed foot.
TeamLeader #25,
I thought you already left Legacy (Business Group).
I am Spartacus! Or at least a Spartacus spy! Onward to a million! Smile! Clap for Orrin! Yippee!
October 5th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Tex: Straight from Legal:
“Judge Feess is referring to Quixtar arbitration which is patterned after other well respected arbitration programs. Please note that the arbitration rule now provides that JAMS or AAA can provide arbitration services. Also, the court can appoint an arbitrator if the parties cannot agree on one. Judge Bush’s report and recommendation is on appeal in Texas, but Quixtar agrees that the arbitrator that he recommended is well qualified to arbitrate any dispute between Quixtar and Simmons.”
As for your other question, Mr. Wilson and Mr. Haugen are still subject to arbitration. For anybody else wondering, Mr. Harteis is not.
October 5th, 2007 at 6:52 pm
tex,
your self rightousness is off the scale,(as is q/a) what did you gain???
now instead of just joe public saying its a scam
now you have the whole population of the team saying it now too WHAT A VICTORY…. for the big amstar corp.
i can see it now
hey want to see my amway business and the court order that says we’re not a illegal pyramid scam even though there are multiple court cases that are trying to prove that it is.
lol
that will be a pretty quick plan huh tex do you show the plan tex???
lol oh boy bring out the parade and the band, quixtar didnt do anyone any wrong in all (insert # of lawsuits here) hey maybe that should assign pv to the use of the lawyers, oh wait there is already a pyramid like that out there isnt there? hmmm never mind.
miss utah
why dont you have a heart to heart with your upline about the loss of your business.
tex
i think its funny that you still dont see the big picture, the team lost but quitxtar/amyway reputation will go on and on and on, the team, well their future is still undetermined.
insiders at quixtar say that volume is down
team affect???
name change??
or a kicked dead horse?
October 5th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
Gary #27, if you have a few spare hours some day, check out a book (Amazon or the library) called “Trading Up” by Michael Silverstein. It describes exactly what you are talking about. My take, however, is that with the hiring of Steve Lieberman, that is exactly where the Alticor companies are headed, and I’m more than satisfied with it. I agree about some over-priced “daily” household consumables, and I don’t purchase those through Quixtar, and even my upline agrees with my choices. But I do think that in many key areas they have the unique products I want, and they are moving in the correct direction. A few more months should demonstrate that conclusively, one way or the other… give Steve L a little more time, he’s not even been on board a full two months yet.
With appreciation,
October 5th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
Bottom line is that The Team will still be number 1. A lot of you just do not see light at end of the tunnel. I fought in Vietnam and never would I have gave up then or for that matter now. We will go to a million peolple and beyond. It is going to be a wait but it will be worth every second. I am sure sad to hear so many are not standing ground. As a vetern of this great country I really feel sorry for those that are giving up. I am glad you did not fight along side of me in vietnam. I would not be hear today.
October 5th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
Alticor Blogger –
Thank you for a very informative update!!! Still looking through all the docs but great so far!!!
October 5th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Admin #29,
Thanks.
not the kings subject #30,
I gained a lot of exposure of the overall tool scam, at all the Orrinites expense.
joe public doesn’t know squat.
The victory is for every IBO, because now we have even more information regarding the tool scam.
I never used the “A” word when prospecting, didn’t use the “Q” word, and don’t expect to use the “A” word when it returns. However, I will look forward to pointing out the tool scam is no longer present.
Yes, I show the plan.
Never mind, or you never had a mind?
miss utah, why dont you have a heart to heart with your upline about the loss of your business. (as if they cared?)
The future is in better hands with you and the rest of the Orrinites out of the “big picture”.
I don’t doubt the Quixtar volume is down, and I won’t be surprised if the arbitration comes down extra hard on Orrin and Co., perhaps extend the 6 month/2 year rules just for Orrin, because his actions that amounted to enticing IBO’s into his new “venture”, such as the freetheibo site and blog. I think the rules of evidence are much less strict in an arbitration, which does not bode well for Orrin.
We’ll be gladly kicking the dead horses known as Orrin/TEAM for quite some time.
They served their purpose, now it’s time to make the U.S. overall tool business look much more like the one in the UK.
October 5th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
So tex,
First it’s “the time isn’t right” and “not til the tool scam is fixed”; now it’s “MichMan #6,
I show the plan like this: “”
Which is it, are you a coward or a liar?
October 5th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
The outcome of the California suit is not a big surprise, and frankly, it has very little meaning as far as I’m concerned. It was never of major importance to me to have Quixtar declared a pyramid. Those that have a clear vision of the big picture will gladly wait the 6 months.
October 5th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Tex,
Thanks for the unwarranted attack. You really are out to get anyone aren’t you. Very sad.
Ummmm, having a little trouble understanding how “Leaving a Legacy” and Legacy (business group) are somehow magically the same in your mind. Maybe you need a new one (mind), yours seems to have burned out with all your constant posting and ranting.
Anyway thanks for proving to everyone you are still a jerk. Have a great day. Lighten up and try to have a little fun, before you have an ulcer.
October 5th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
There are sure a lot of negative people on this site.
October 5th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
Amway, you spelled GREATFUL wrong…grateful? Amway will no longer be once the name change — you’re gone!
October 5th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
Mick #32,
You didn’t fight in Vietnam to protect tool scam artists. You should be happy that Randy, Don, Orrin, Chris, and Billy didn’t fight along side of you, or you likely would have been abandoned so they could save their own butts, and your head would have ended up on the end of a stick in some North Vietnamese hut, for decoration.
toomuchtex #35,
Neither. He asked me if I show the plan, and I do. He didn’t say, “Do you currently show the plan?” I never stated “I show the plan like this”. As the top of the thread says, “Case Dismissed”.
whatever #36,
Then it sounds like your leader (Orrin) doesn’t have a very clear vision of the big picture. Class dismissed.
October 5th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
Hey Tex and all of you amwine morons,
This is so long for us, we will not be feeding your need for insults on a daily basis. We are going to be counting the days till Feb 10th.
What does that date mean? Your intelligent beings, figure it out.
Oh by the way we are going to be laughing our asses off as you guys try to build your businesses with the new amwine training systems.
October 5th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
So it would appear then that tex is a coward AND a liar.
October 5th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
Gary #27,
When I did price comparisons for Quixtar’s home care products I broke everything down to cost per use. I had a friend who is good with Excel spreadsheets help me. I compared our Quixtar exclusive brands against the name brand competitor at a few major grocery store chains in my area. I found that the Quixtar products were all less expensive even at retail and including 7% shipping. I’m talking about SA8 laundry products, Dish Drops, the L.O.C. line, etc. I was skeptical. I didn’t do this exercise to prove what I already believed. Plus, I typically get more uses out of a product than is promised on the label, so for me, the cost per use is even better.
October 5th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
I can only share my experience. When my Diamond moved us to the team I was excited. I thought we had our hand on something great. Orrin had spoke at our conferences before and I always enjoyed his talks. Now let’s jump ahead to the last couple months.
Before the lawsuit, Quixtar was great, the switch to Amway’s name was the best thing and, oh by the way, this brings in more money and most young people don’t even know the Amway name anymore. If you spend $50 more a month look at it as an investment and, if you really want to comparison shop, I will show you it’s really not more expensive. (by the way, these are the same things I’ve heard on Orrin’s CD’s).
Now what is happening? Meetings I’ve attended since the lawsuit are not about how good the team is, but how horrible Quixtar is. If the team is so great, why waste so much time badmouthing something else when you could be spending that time letting everyone else know why the team is so great?
At the beginning of the lawsuit my Platinum and above said “business as usual.” So they told me, keep registering people in what we are calling an illegal pyramid (Quixtar). So my leaders have the “integrity” to leave Quixtar, but still want me to register people in Quixtar?
Speaking of integrity, the rules talk about 6-months of inactivity. I had personally attended “team” opens, had “team” people show me “team” brochures, given me “team” CD’s, told me the “team” is still contacting people, showing plans, and telling everyone they are in pre-launch.
I’ve been told that with the pre-launch they are not telling anyone about the system, but only saying sign up for three months on the website and buy a conference ticket. If you don’t tell people about the system, yet the system is where you make money, and, according to my upline, they won’t find out about the system until the conference, would that fall into the category of lying, or something smaller like intentionally decieving people?
I’m not saying Quixter is 100% right, but I am saying I have serious questions about the integrity of people who would tell me to register people in an “illegal pyramid” and also intentionally tell me to go out and do something that, as the judges order confirmed today, IS ILLEGAL!!!!!!
October 5th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
“I gained a lot of exposure of the overall tool scam, at all the Orrinites expense.”
so you dont have any tools in your business, that you use when you show the plan???
what are the texinites learning here, how to spin the plan? name call, it will be funny when im contacted by one of your group, because the group takes on the leader attributes.
“joe public doesn’t know squat.”
and well tex that would be the next person you show the plan to, good luck building your customer retail product base in amway because that is a requirement now you must say amway business.
“The victory is for every IBO, because now we have even more information regarding the tool scam.”
the tools that q/a approved for 8 years tex, you must be reminded of the intellectual honest with oneself i see.
because if it were the team that had a tool scam quixtar/amway didnt have a probelm with it for 8 YEARS.
8 YEARS!!!!!!!
and the new ones that q/a are going to put together for the new person, im sure they will be great, actors with q cards and no business experience
anyone remember this “the principals and methods here can not be guaranted, we do however hope they will inspire you and help you have a profitable business”
get use to hearing that because that will be their retort when you dont get a yes to non competitive prices, 35% profit margin and yep you guess it no volume checks, because well that would require volume.
“I never used the “A” word when prospecting, didn’t use the “Q” word, and don’t expect to use the “A” word when it returns. However, I will look forward to pointing out the tool scam is no longer present.”
YOU WILL HAVE TO SAY IT NOW WONT YOU TEX???
hey guess what the system that q/a is putting together will have to be paid for by someone…who would that be?????
im mean it couldNT be in the competitively price of the products could it????
“Yes, I show the plan.”
really?????? does it have anything to do with the business were talking about now???
“Never mind, or you never had a mind?”
LOL PEOPLE SKILLS do you use these fine tuned abilities when you out prospectin tex????
miss utah, why dont you have a heart to heart with your upline about the loss of your business. (as if they cared?)
your right tex, your a upline too, you dont care.
“The future is in better hands with you and the rest of the Orrinites out of the “big picture”.”
he is right, join tex’s business im sure he will show you by example.
“I don’t doubt the Quixtar volume is down, and I won’t be surprised if the arbitration comes down extra hard on Orrin and Co., perhaps extend the 6 month/2 year rules just for Orrin, because his actions that amounted to enticing IBO’s into his new “venture”, such as the freetheibo site and blog. I think the rules of evidence are much less strict in an arbitration, which does not bode well for Orrin.”
you know so much tex better get out there and serve the q master. show and sell show and sell good tex vader.
your eyes must be brown, cuz you are full of it, its down because of how quixtar/amway handle it with the smear campaign and the threating letters and these spins of the truth you promote tex, you are spreading doubt very well, i have seen more people excited to tell “you” they are quiting then staying in these blogs, good work tex
We’ll be gladly kicking the dead horses known as Orrin/TEAM for quite some time.
oh tex what will you do with your self then???
They served their purpose, now it’s time to make the U.S. overall tool business look much more like the one in the UK.
oh thats right!! good point again TEX, and where did the money come from to invest in this QUIXTAR AMWAY BUSINESS MODEL TOOL SYSTEM, oh thats right the 35% margin, so back to the drawin board for quixtar amway,
imagine the meeting on that topic
we wont use people who have experience in building the business because they have already got tools and experience, we will have folks who have no experience teach those with no experience all from theory of course.
they will be those videos with bad keyboard music, or even worse like the instructional videos for job training at a fast food chain, oh wait a minute………a business system..
tex tex when the blog is done, you will be dismissed and you will be still known as the critic, how does your group work with that critical melon of yours…
the funny thing is tex, its all to clear to them.. read what they right you can dismiss it all day, but i think we have a nutrilite/SA8 history repeat sproating up.
October 5th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
Teamleader #37,
You’re welcome, but the “attack” was warranted. Orrin’s lawsuit wasn’t. I’m only out to get the tool scammers and their supporters. That leaves quite a few moral and ethical folks. I’m not sad, I’m quite happy. Especially after today’s news.
It was a play on words. I feel playful today, because Orrin got kicked out of the sandbox and into arbitration. Orrin and the Orrinites should “Be afraid. Be very afraid.”
I’m sure you consider me a jerk, and I wear that label as an honor, coming from you. If I was having any more fun, it would probably not be legal. Cheer up, you’re the one calling others jerks.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:11 am
Tex,
Good luck building your Amway business. Since in your mind the dismissal in California is a fatal blow to TEAM, you obviously won’t have to devote all of your free time to blogging your anti-TEAM messages. You can get out and show the plan and hit the road to Diamond. I’m sure with your great people skills and maybe some help from the Amway training system you will get there faster than ever.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:13 am
Do not worry. Quixtar can not hurt us. Things have never been better for us and I am sure that is the case around the board. Go Team!! I was just taking a break from my reading to check this silly blog.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:13 am
tex #40
so know you know what its like to be a vietnam vet, man, tex your now crossin the line, unless you served in vietnam, you better stand down.
moderator you dont find that offensive?????
mick i hope he didnt offend you with the stick comment
give respect tex and watch how you talk to our vets.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:19 am
Dear Miss Utah # 2, 10
If you haven’t already read rdknyvr # 17 you should. He has an excellent perspective on Amway for one who feels similar as you.
I don’t agree with your view that Amway has a terrible reputation. Any bad reputation that exists was caused by and is directed towards IBOs or former Distributors, who did not run their businesses properly and made bad decisions.
I’m very proud of Amway. Amway actually has a great reputation, it’s just that too often the person who has an opinion and makes statements about how Amway is this or that, is often saying, “I heard about this guy who lied to people, who didn’t make any money because all he did was talk and didn’t do anything, and he had bad breathe to boot!
In the last week (Sep. 27th and Oct. 4th) I have attended to 2 meetings where about 1/3 of those at the meetings were prospects taking their first look at the Quixtar business.
During the meetings, the speakers in both when describing Quixtar, said how it was a part of Alticor and along with it’s other global company Amway, had nearly 50 years of history backing it. They went on to describe various other aspects of the relationship.
After the meeting, as I went around to visit with some of the new prospects, listening to them I did not hear one negative comment, all were upbeat and positive.
It’s all how you position it, lead with facts and come from a position of strength and pride not weakness.
And if a question were to arise about “something, someone heard about someone, doing something wrong” were to be asked (intentional long wording :), I would simple state, ”Yes there have been some who operated their businesses wrong, but they are no longer IBOs. We don’t operate our business that way. Why don’t you learn more about how we operate and decide for yourself?”
Whenever I’ve said that, I’ve never had anyone say no. They’ve always been willing to learn more. Have all become IBOs? I’d love to say yes, but no, not all have…yet
But it’s not because of some “bad reputation” us IBOs think everyone is thinking about.
Honestly, I hear more self defeating comments from IBOs then I ever do from prospects!
Of course, it’s the same in any company I’ve worked at as well, we’re our own worst critics!
We all need to do a better job of telling OUR story, the true story, not the ones a few naysayers are telling.
We have a rich and wonderful story to tell including and especially about Amway.
I challenge you, no I double challenge you to see if maybe some of your views about Amway are wrong. If you don’t and you decide to quit, you’ll never know if maybe you didn’t know the real story.
Learn about all the great facts about Amway and Nutrilite. Get a better understanding of the founding principles and the ethics that from the start made this business great.
Visit www.amway.com and click on “Amway Business Opportunity”. Read about it’s rich history and vision.
Visit www.nutrilite.com and read about it’s commitments to quality food supplements and it’s rich history. Then go to ANY other company that sells “vitamins”, and see the difference!
Read the following books for a great perspective:
(Check with your upline if they have copies, or some might be available at your public library or through YOUR partner store Barnes and Noble.)
By Charles Paul Conn
The Possible Dream
The Winner’s Circle
An Uncommon Freedom
Promises to Keep
By rich DeVos
Believe!
Compassionate Capitalism
Jay Van Andel
An enterprising Life
By Shad Helmstetter
American Victory: The Real Story of Today’s Amway
If you really dig into the facts, you’ll see as I do, it’s truly an amazing business, albeit a few odd ducks every once in a while!
So in closing, I’d say, put your trust in the principles that built the Amway business, not people.
And remember to stay focused on your dreams! They still can come true! And you’ll have a blast along the way!
Best of success to you!
Ros
October 6th, 2007 at 12:27 am
Mick #38,
No there aren’t. We’re positive TEAM lost today, bigtime.
a2z #39,
They spelled it right, “greatful” isn’t a word, “grateful” is, just like they spelled it.
You Orrinites can’t catch a break today, can you? Don’t worry, tomorrow HAS to be better, because today was a total disaster.
But it’s nothing compared to the buzz-saw Orrin is about to walk into with the arbitration proceedings.
Keep up the good work, I’m sure Orrin is “greatful” for your “help”.
Chris #41,
Just a wee-bit touchy tonight, aren’t we Chris? Why is that, anyway? You’re the one whining about Amway, I welcome the name change.
Bub-bye Chris. So long, bub-bye.
At least we’re intelligent enough to spell “You’re” instead of “Your”, when we are attempting to insult the intelligence of others, as in your sentence, “Your intelligent beings, figure it out.” Not reading your books? Tsk, tsk.
Note to Amway: New and exclusive product idea - Develop butt glue that we can sell to the Orrinites to reconnect their bums after they laugh them off.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:27 am
I am very disappointed in the California judge. Quixtar’s arbitration is fair? Sure it is. Check out http://qssr.blogspot.com for a great explanation of Q’s arbitration.
Tex darling, your day is coming sweetie. I will try not to gloat too much.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:42 am
Alticor Media Blog Administrator,
If that comment that Chris wrote (#41) came from Tex, you’d surely be all over him for his inflammatory remarks. Does this blog have a list of rules of conduct that apply to everyone? Could it be posted in a permanent place on this site?
October 6th, 2007 at 1:00 am
Tex #40,
Your disrespect for an honorable soldier who risked his life to protect ALL Americans is not a great example of an honorable American citizen. I suggest being more mindful of your comments.
Regardless of this contract dispute, Americans are still Americans and we are ultimately ALL on the same side; lets not forget that.
There are enough real enemies out there.. if you want to rant and rave about something, perhaps you would incite more support if it were against communism or terrorism.
I wish the greatest success to all who are or have ever been a part of the Amway/Quixtar businesses; regardless of the current litigation, we are all people who are willing to do more than sit on their couch watching reruns until we die!
Lets have a more positive challenge… a race to 1 Million… you get a six month head start!
October 6th, 2007 at 1:00 am
February 9th, 2008 Mark your calendar boys and girls. Everything is already in place!!!!!
October 6th, 2007 at 1:13 am
LOL!!! Miss Utah, you really have the wrong perspective. I really dont understand why did this division had to knock you down. I guess you gotta work on your leadership alitle more. We were part of the legacy group when we merged with TEAM. We were alerady doing good without team, but they came and pushed us alitle. After all this mess happened with TEAM, we decided to just get out of the way and just keep going. Now that we’re out of the game we’re even stronger than ever. This past month my group grew more than ever with more pv. Its all in your attitude. What doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger.
October 6th, 2007 at 1:20 am
Hey Tex,
Somewhere you claimed that Orrin was looking out for number one, correct? Do you spend every waking moment analyzing Orrin and his actions? Or are you just playing God?
Let me ask you this - when you are hungry do you feed yourself or do you go to the local soup kitchen to serve those less fortunate?
Since we are all self-centered creatures, wouldn’t that make you a hypocrite? As Matthew 7:1-5 in the Message says: “Don’t pick on people, jump on their failures, criticize their faults - unless, of course, you want the same treatment. That critical spirit has a way of boomeranging. It’s easy to see a smudge on your neighbor’s face and be oblivious to the ugly sneer on your own. Do you have the nerve to say, ‘Let me wash your face for you,’ when your own face is distorted by contempt? It’s this whole traveling road-show mentality all over again, playing a holier-than-thou part instead of just living your part. Wipe that ugly sneer off your own face, and you might be fit to offer a washcloth to your neighbor.”
And what exactly are the details of this tool scandal you keep talking about? I bet if you work on your people skills, read some books (especially the Bible)and let it go - you would have true freedom?
October 6th, 2007 at 1:37 am
#27 Gary. Good post. Lots of truth.
Admin: Don & Randy “subject” to arbitration? Yes, if they want to keep their board positions, or get their IBO number back. I don’t see any other reason for arbitration, do you?
According to Q/A rules, NONE of the IBOs, including Chris and Orrin should have been terminated without at least arbitration first. That one mistake has been pointed out by judges in MI, TX and CA. Idiots at Corporation caused most of this mess in the first place.
That said, the CA lawsuit was shocking at first read, and not well put together. Shouldn’t have been filed when Alticor called the bluff.
October 6th, 2007 at 8:39 am
As a recently resigned Quixtar IBO, I find Alticore’s “spin” on the fired IBOs sickening. To think that I actually believed in this business model. Yikes! Well, the integrity train has left the station. We knew that at very worst, we would have a 6 month hiatus from overspending on. Amway can do it’s victory dance. But what is to come will make this a short spastic jig at best. You will hear from the TEAM and hear often. We know your business and have a much better idea. Non-compete will soon turn to can’t compete. As they have said so many times before -
“You can’t stop an idea whose time has come”
“The futures so bright, I gotta wear shades!”
October 6th, 2007 at 9:15 am
Ros, #50: Great comments. I like, “It’s all how you position it, lead with facts and come from a position of strength and pride not weakness.” And, “Honestly, I hear more self defeating comments from IBOs then I ever do from prospects!”
October 6th, 2007 at 9:30 am
Ros,
What state so you live in ?
October 6th, 2007 at 9:32 am
ROS #50
those books are 30 years old and contain amyway thinking not principal thinking or at least the principals that amway quixsand dont use anymore
get some success principal information.
October 6th, 2007 at 9:40 am
(annonucer voice)
comeback next time:
will tex toss another insult to a young person or maybe he will check his own spelling
will he ignore the blog with the facts in it?
or will he finally see the error of his thinking?
or did he go back to “agent smith” class with ros?
will he be cloned under another name?
come back to see next time in ibo in the river nile.
(music begins)
fades to commercial
(thought the brits would like that)
October 6th, 2007 at 9:54 am
james merritt #59
well put
if you did monthly personal volume of 100 pv depending on what you bought you would be saving $150 to 200 a month thats some money to leverage,
luna bars are really good and rockstar has a sugar free that isnt to bad either, well the tp you could anywhere cheaper.
but what if i have a water purifier oh no……lol
October 6th, 2007 at 9:57 am
42 lol
ya think lol
October 6th, 2007 at 10:13 am
The Judge did us a favor yesterday - no one wants to be part of the distasteful unprofessionalism Q/A has displayed over the past two months. It really does not matter what side you are on or who is wrong or right. History will show that TEAM has shown it’s leadership and are leading from the front. While Q/A leads from behind a mob of attorneys. Slice it up anyway you want, stomp on it - it does not matter. Q/A has shown their true colors.
October 6th, 2007 at 10:17 am
Oh! By the way slavery was abolished. Stop sending threats and saying you own IBO’s - especially those of us who have resigned. Yes we will wait out our time. But nothing can stop us, nothing.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:01 am
not the kings subject #49,
Blow it out your ear, ntks. I didn’t comment on his Vietnam service, I commented on how the current situation has no bearing on his service. Apples and oranges.
But I do appreciate you showing how much of a baby you are, asking for the moderator’s help rather than discuss the issues with me. At ease.
Ros #50,
How do you know the business doesn’t have mostly tool scammers left, even though Woodward and Co. are gone? Have you posted your upline’s tool profits and tool prices? Until you do, your flowery language falls like a thud in my ears.
LisBette #52,
I’m not your “darling” or “sweetie”.
However, I do agree the Quixtar arbitration process is flawed. Too bad Orrin’s highly paid lawyers didn’t argue keeping the case in court to prove that the formerly “unconscionable” process that had some changes made can now be considered “conscionable”. Maybe he can pay some more lawyers to take up this argument.
Aron #53,
Who cares what Chris wrote? I already put him in his place. All he did was demonstrate how wrong he is, that’s all. Keep it coming Chris.
amazed #54,
See comments to not the kings subject, above. Ditto to you. Orrin could have done a better service to mankind if he had sat in front of his TV watching reruns, because he and the other “kingpins” have ruined hundreds of thousands of lives, in order to make a few bucks for themselves.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:03 am
I have been reading this blog for more than a month now. Tex, you are both offensive and sad. Stand down indeed! “Catch a break…” - time will tell. Maybe you should sit down and put some pressure on YOUR brain.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:16 am
BC #56,
Who/what do you use for tools now?
A Million Baby! #57,
I don’t have to “spend every waking moment analyzing Orrin and his actions” to know he is a scam artist. I’m not playing God, but God is playing Orrin right now.
Give me a break on your Biblical distortions. Jesus never promoted lying down for injustices like the tool scam. If you don’t understand it, do some reading and come back to ask me specific questions. Being a Christian doesn’t require us to be a doormat or not call a spade a spade. Grow up.
Utah #58,
I think it’s too late to get their IBO and therefore Board positions back. If they want in, they will need to start over. Admin, please verify. Also, there are plenty of good reasons to take all these former IBO’s to arbitration. Even if the case went into the court system, Quixtar should have counter sued for the damages they caused. Same will be true in arbitration. Don’t be surprised if the arbitrator decides the 6 month and 2 year time periods aren’t long enough because of the damage the TEAM “leaders” have caused.
According to Q/A rules, IBO’s can be terminated for gross misconduct. If they want to be reinstated, they can go to arbitration, but even that is probably not going to happen, because neither the corporation, the IBOAI, or most IBO’s want these clowns back into our business.
That said, the CA lawsuit should never have been started, then Alticor wouldn’t have been put in the position to call their bluff.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:40 am
James Merritt #59,
You’re right, the integrity train has left the station, and the IBO’s are on it.
But you got left at the station to wait at least 6 months for the “new and improved Orrin scam train”. See ya.
Aron #60,
Yes, except glossing over the tool scam, which is where most upline makes most of their money, I liked Ros’ post as well.
dannie #61,
Probably the same state as you, the state of confusion. Or is it the state of delusion?
not the kings subject #62/3/4/5,
What we really need is a good book on the tool scam. But who needs a book when the facts are all over the internet?
Sounds like you have a lot of free time on your hands to come up with lame posts while waiting for the train with james.
In reply to “Ya think?” No, I don’t think he does think, and neithe do you.
In2WIN #66,
The Judge did you a favor yesterday, he put you out of your misery and fed you to the wolves, called arbitration. Who started the “distasteful unprofessionalism”? Orrin did. Did you expect Quixtar to lay down, or play nice, while being bashed by the Orrinites online? It really does matter what side you are on or who is wrong or right. History will show that TEAM has shown it’s true “leadership”, which consists of liars, cowards, and tool scammers. Other than that, really nice people who smile a lot and like to quote the Bible. and are leading from the front. While Q/A leads from behind a mob of attorneys. Slice it up anyway you want, stomp on it - it does not matter. Q/A has shown their true colors.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:47 am
It has been said that the best friend of truth is time and for all of us on Team time is on our side. There is a bigger purpose and plan behind everything going on. We all need to check our hearts and make sure our motives are pure. We will make a difference in our world! NOthing and no one can stop destiny from happening.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:53 am
Tex #71,
Pushed the “Submit Comment” key by mistake prior to finishing response to In2WIN #66, remainder below:
TEAM definitely isn’t leading from the front. From the gutter perhaps, not the front.
I think TEAM started the “mob of attorneys” parade. Problem is, they didn’t know what they were doing and got trampled by the Quixtar lawyers. They still got paid though, right Orrin? Orrin? Are you there? I forgot, Orrin is now in the soup kitchen. Eating, not serving.
Sure, Quixtar showed their true colors, just like any other corporation or individual would. Fight back when attacked. What else did you expect?
October 6th, 2007 at 11:55 am
In2WIN #67,
Slavery? Threats? You really don’t get it, do you?
October 6th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Tex#40
Your wrong again. I would fight along side of every leader on the Team. If you do not like the Tools then guess what do not do it. Guess what if you do not like The Team you have that right. I myself was in Amway for over 20 years before it became Quixtar. But I have the right to be on The Team. If you like Quixtar go for it. I will not bad mouth Quixtar for any reason. I have been there done that. Let’s face bad mouth evrything is not the answer. I will wait mt time and move on. Tex you have the right to do anything you wait yourself. Seems like you have a awful a lot to say. Maybe you should go out and start your own business and run it your. You do have that right. So please never tell me who I would fight along side of. You do not have that right.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
Tex#40
I did not finish this. Plus I did notice there are some spelling errors.
Maybe you should go out and start your own business and run it your way. You have all the answers my friend. But I am very glad you are not on my team.
October 6th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Alticor Media Blog Administrator,
While there are several who are civil and respectful when they disagree…
I must agree with
Aron Gannon Says: #53
The languge is rapidly deteriating.
What Chris wrote (#41) and Tex and others is going way over the top.
Casting insults and inciting.
Any point of credibility gets lost in there disrespectful remarks.
If they were to leave the insults out and just state their case, whether they agree or disagree, then we could have a civil discourse.
I would enjoy discussing differing opinions with anyone who would be willing to do that.
Thank you,
Ros
October 6th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
toomuchtex #42,
I said “neither”, not “both”.
Do you know the difference?
Aron #43,
I did the same thing last year, found you are right (except I used IBO prices), and posted the results on qblog.
freedom #44,
Good post. However, I think you need to explain why/how both of these statements are true: “you spend $50 more a month look at it as an investment and, if you really want to comparison shop, I will show you it’s really not more expensive.”
I think the bad-mouthing you have been hearing can be considered as enticing you to join whatever scam Orrin and his Orrinites are involving themselves in next. I suggest you call Quixtar and offer your input.
ntks #45,
You completely missed the point when I said “I gained a lot of exposure of the overall tool scam, at all the Orrinites expense.” Yes, I use the same tools you do, but I and our group pay a tiny fraction as much for the tools. Our incentive is the Quixtar business, not the tools. Just like as is shown in the plan, imagine that. The exposure I referred to is the Orrinites contributed, significantly, to the facts regarding the MASSIVE tool scam profits.
You won’t be interested when you see our plan, it is moral and ethical.
That’s right, it is our job to educate “joe public”. With the facts, not a scam.
The corporation has had an issue with the tool scam since at least far back as 1983, haven’t you ever heard/read the “Directly Speaking” recordings? Also, it isn’t so much the content, which is why we are still using the tools, but the price, resulting secret profit, and incentives the above produces. Almost 25 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!
I have started the Quixtar University course, and it is excellent.
The “the principals and methods here can not be guaranted, we do however hope they will inspire you and help you have a profitable business” is a cop-out. It is a necessary legal statement that covers up the scam. Just like being “accredited” puts a “stamp of approval” on the approved tool scams.
As I have stated elsewhere, there are many competitively priced products. Besides, Orrin is going to regret his “I would bury the products in my back yard, who cares about the prices” and similar comments when he gets to arbitration. Face it, his goose is cooked.
No, I won’t have to use Amway when contacting, where did you get that idea?
I have no problem paying for a system, as long as it isn’t a scam. Did you ever notice the prices on the Quixtar DVD? They were a fraction of what TEAM and the other tool scams charge.
The cost of the training is a drop in the bucket compared to the product prices. They do the online training once, and all you need is an internet connection.
Yes, I really show the plan. Really. Just not right now.
“Never mind, or you never had a mind?” LOL PEOPLE SKILLS do you use these fine tuned abilities when you out prospectin tex???? No, I save them for people like you.
It should be abundantly clear I care. Who else do you see standing up against the tool scam?
No need to help me prospect, I do fine on my own.
My eyes green, the dollar of money. I’m glad they are “quiting” (check your spelling, there are 2 “t’s”), who wants Orrinites around?
Actually, I don’t have to do much kicking, they seem to be doing a pretty good job by themselves.
What makes you think Amway has to contribute all of the tool content, and IBO’s none of the content? You’re a joke. Just not a very funny one.
What makes you think the blog will be “done”? When the overall tool scam is fixed, I will build my business, and use YOUR comments to show how stupid the Orrinites are.
“the funny thing is tex, its all to clear to them.. read what they right you can dismiss it all day, but i think we have a nutrilite/SA8 history repeat sproating up.”
The funny thing is, let’s list the error you made in a single sentence:
1. “The” should be capitalized,
2. My name, “Tex”, is capitalized,
3. The word “to” should have been “too”,
4. The word “its” should have been “it’s”,
5. The word “right” should have been “write”,
6. The word “i” should have been “I”, and
7. The word “sproating” should have been “sprouting”.
On top of that, even with all of these corrections, the sentence makes zero sense.
Class dismissed - WITH PREJUDICE!
October 6th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
#39 a2z - you may want to brush up on your spelling. The admin did spell grateful correctly, you on the other hand did not.
October 6th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Aron Gannon,
# 43 Price comparison - Good call on the price comparison. I have found much the same.
# 53 I appreciate your comments regarding a code of conduct for posting comments. Definitely needed since some are not willing to be civil and respectful.
# 60 Thank you.
Best regards,
Ros
October 6th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
Lee #69,
When I need your advice, I will notify you. At ease.
freedom #72,
It has been said that the best friend of truth is time and for all of you Team time is not on your side. The results of arbitration could be to extend the usual 6 month/2 year waiting periods, because of the stupid moves the Orrinites have taken.
There is a bigger purpose and plan behind everything going on, and it’s called truth, honesty, ethics, and morals. New concepts to the Orrinites.
We all need to check our hearts and make sure our motives are pure, which they are. Bury the Orrinites.
We will make a difference in our world? You already did, you are a great example of the tool scam, thanks very much for “making a difference”.
NOthing and no one can stop destiny from happening? Really? The tool scam information on the internet caused Orrin to change from “Team of Destiny” to “TEAM”, didn’t it?
October 6th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
OMG this is ridiculous…if you spent the time building a business as blogging, I would say 1 or 2 of you should be diamonds by now :o)
October 6th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
dannie Says: # 61
California. Why do you ask?
Ros
October 6th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
Oneforall #82,
You may want to check your Ten Commandments, number 3.
God
October 6th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Oneforall #82,
I will spend my time building a business, AFTER the tool scams are shut down, as has been done in the UK.
Tex
October 6th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
tex,
Enough with the tool scam non-sense. Is that really you’re reason or just the rational lie that you tell youself? You’re gonna wait till the tool scam is fixed huh? I think that shows how badly you want it fixed, so bad you’re willing to. . . wait for somebody else to do it. Which are you commited to? Excuses or results?
Look it, when I took business law in school, they told me I needed to go to classes (3 hour classes) twice a week, I needed to buy this book that cost about 100 bucks. I know whoever set up the classes was making money off me, and I know the person who sold me the book (which was not the school it’s self but a privately owned book store that the school allowed to be on campus, many students didn’t even know the book store was privatly owned) was making money off it to. You know how good I am at business law today? I suck. That book was a waste of money and those classes were a waste of tiome (and money), I’m gonna wait till this scam is fixed before I go back to school. In fact I’m going to make websites where I’ll demand to see the profits made from these “educational materials” and where I’ll discourage others from buying them.
Which is tex? Excuses or results? what do you want to die with? (Not a threat, just saying one day tex, like everyone, will pass on and he will get to look back on a life of excuses or results, but not both, so I am simply asking which he wants to see : ) .
October 6th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Administrator,
I have to agree with Ros. This blog site has turned into nothing but a grade school playground kids fight. There is very little actual discusson about topics, just namecalling and critisizing.
1. Is anybody actually learning anything from the garbage that is being posted.
2. If anyone from the ‘outside’ that might be looking in read 90% of what is said here they surely would come away with a negative view of both Q/A and TEAM people.
3. The majority of Q/A IBO’s and TEAM people are great people I am sure. But the handfull of posters here are giving the good people a bad name and rep.
Don’t you think it is time to put a stop to all this and lay down some guidelines about topic, civility, etc. and enforce them? Something like making sure that there is no use of ‘handles’. If you are too ashamed to put your real name on what you are posting, then don’t let them post.
There are a couple posters that have always tried to keep things ‘clean’ IBOFB and Ros. There are some others, but their names escape me now.
Am ask you, please clean this place up!
Dwight Spaulding
October 6th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
So Tex, since we have all gotten to know you so well - perhaps you would like to introduce yourself - you know - your real name.
The corporation must be paying you over time for all of your posts - perhaps you could spend some of that hard earned money with Quixtar….. I hear they have a lot of inventory this year.
October 6th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
I for one am happy that we had such a quick ruling in CA. I know this is far from over, however it is progressing quicker than thought.
There are very few people who have the full picture of how Team vs other diamond organizations ran their businesses. There are some of us who have seen both sides of the fence by the merging of our LOS with Team.
People who have only been in Team have no understanding of how other organizations run and if you have never been apart of Team functions/opens/BSM you have no idea how Team functioned.
I personally know and have met a lot of IBO’s formerly with Team who are not following Orrin & Chris and are staying with Quixtar/Amway. They are happy to realize that there are so many IBO’s out there who DO retail and who do promote products. I recently did an EXPO at a business networking and so many Team IBO’s were fascinated with all of the product BSM we had promoting the products. They had never seen them or new they existed!
Some other Team IBO’s complimented us on how we are out in the public promoting the products like they have just recently learned they should be doing ……as well as leadership development. It is not all about leadership development. All though that is vital so is moving of volume, and not at the rate of 150pv per month like Team taught. There is such a huge customer base volume that most Team IBO’s don’t understand. They are used to Team open’s where they hear……….”if you eat and drink you are quilified to do this business with the DOT1″……as they promote personal consumption. There is such an easier way to success when you log in daily and see your pv growing with customer volume. Or get an email from corporate saying…..you have a new custmer registered. It is awesome! Especially now with the new Simply Nutrilite and Artistry Essentials! Have you all tried the new Twist Tubes that you add to your water bottle? Stawberry-Kiwi with immunities is my favorite and priced great at $.55 each!
My newest customer base are resigned Team IBO’s who still want XS, Nutrilite, Rhodiola, Artisty and eSpring filters. They need the eSpring filters and that is great pv/bv!
My heart goes out to all of the confused IBO’s affiliated with Team. Know that there are many IBO’s feel for you and the position you are in. Find an IBO who is not affiliated with Team and get a different perspective on how other LOS run their organizations. It is night and day different than what you know and you will have a clearer understanding of how to proceed. Like did you know that some LOS have phone conference calls that you can listen in on to learn from the “best of the best” on how to retail products? Fabulous ideas that I have done and seen results from! There is soooooo much more that Team affiliated IBO’s have no knowledge on. Seek the out the knowledge before you make any descision to leave.
Let’s all commit to increasing our pv, customer volume and sponsoring to prove that some sales loss that will occur with some Team affiliated IBO’s leaving, did not affect our bottom line! There is strength in numbers and if we all increase a little it will show!
Kathy
“Do your best….but when you know better, you do better….this comes from knowledge and wisdom.”
October 6th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
tex you sound alot like jody victor …. trying to compensate for saying the board would protect the ibo
October 6th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
i do agree moderator the comments throughout the blog by tex are ridiculous childish and not bringing an relivant information to the blog
October 6th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
not the kings subject Says: # 63
or did he go back to “agent smith” class with ros?
Ros said:
That’s great!
I loved the movie Mr. Smith goes to Washington! It’s a classic!
James Stewart was great! He’s one of my favorite actors!
Yes, I cheer for the underdog, and try to right wrongs as I can!
Wishing you the best!
Ros
October 6th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Tex,
You go on and on about Team’s tool scam. Break it down for me, explain this scam.
From your posts you don’t really seem to understand how Team works. Team is also sick of the profits big pins make off tools while many many make nothing, that’s why they fixed it. I’ve never been promoted to buy tools I don’t need, in fact I’ve heard many Team leaders say “if you’re not gonna use them, don’t buy them, we don’t want you have a bunch of tools just to have a bunch of tools” If they were running a tool scam, why say that? Why talk about dropping prices on tools and even making it possible to download audio’s from a free website? Why tex? Why would another leader in Team (before aligning with Team) have put audio recordings of his entire major function on his website (which required a 1-time charge of 25 bucks to access) when in the past he had put major functions on CD and sold them for 50 bucks. How much revenue did he pass up on making that call? Tex, please answer these questions.
October 6th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
Kathy,
Great post! Thank you for encouraging people to get as much information as they can before making a decision.
Tex,
My guess is you’re trying to get around in LA with a map of Chicago, you’re tool scam paradigm fails miserably to address many facts (listed in my previous post). That’s a huge indication you don’t have all the information you need. Please educate yourself. It’s not you I’m concerned with, it’s people who don’t really understand much and are trying to figure out more that might believe you, that’s who I’m concerned about. If you listen to Tex, you’ll end up unhappy with your results. Not saying that I have all the answers, I do not.
October 6th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
(Sigh.) Vitriol bores us. Substance? Now we’re talking. Let’s hear some.
October 6th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
#20 spartan
quit wasting your time and money. TEAM will never be more than a group of brainwashed followers who will never learn to think for themselvs.
October 6th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
#96
Do you know him personally? If not, i,d get rid of that id and start acting like a business person. This blog is starting to become a bunch of childish commentators looking for a reaction to their post. Guess you got me on that one #96 because you are so wrong. We are not brainwashed, we love the people we are associated with and I for one have never met a better group of people… And btw, currently I am not wasting any money.
October 6th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Tex,
Did you in the past complain that the Team failed to mention Quixtar in the plan until the prospect was signing paper work? Was that one of the whistle blowing subjects, or am I mistaken?
Please refer to #57, maybe you’ll get it this time. I am continuing to pray for you. My, you sure are wrapped up in this vicious cycle.
AEM #93, I like your stuff. I asked Tex the same thing about the details of the tool profit scam (so to speak), and still waiting for a comment on that. Good luck, all I got was him telling me in such the Christianly manner to grow up. He knows me oh so well too, ya know after one blog message and all.
October 6th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
AEM #86, Oh yeah, that was also an awesome illustration. It is so true. Poor Ron and Toby Hale. I guess you have to love ‘em where they are at.
October 6th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Substance, what a concept! Here is some… For those who intend on building a business with Amway… Do it! I wish you all the success in the world!
For those who wish to not build a business with Amway, relax… the negative bloggers are just jealous that you are not afraid of the unknown like they are!
For Alticor and company, I have resigned my IBO simply because the pending business model does not fit with my business goals. FYI… TEAM has consistently been promoting that everyone follow the rules. I would greatly appreciate the legal right to build a business that does match my business goals without having to wait; that doesn’t mean that I won’t wait, it would just be a kind gesture to let people who want to leave, leave; with no strings attached.
You want to have a good name for Amway; one simple thing that would help would be to release the TEAM from the non-compete. This would not cost Alticor anything that is not going to be lost anyway, and it might even create some wonderfully positive press from the TEAM as they thank Alticor for it, publicly!
Dick Devos, you want support for elections… show your support for freedom by helping to end this mess!
TEAM never wanted a fight, and there is still time to repair the broken relationships!
October 6th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
one more thing…
Imagine the headline:
“TEAM CEO announced today that TEAM has surpassed their goal of reaching 1 Million registered in their leadership development system. TEAM has publicly thanked the Alticor companies for their kindess in releasing the former Quixtar IBOs who expressed a desire not to build an Amway business. Amway also announced today that sales for 2007 have exceeded the previous years’ sales by nearly $250,000,000.00! TEAM has been approved as a BSM provider for Amway distributors after the two companies put their differences aside and foudn a true win-win between them. Although the TEAM/Amway BSMs are limited, there is peace in Michigan! Dick Devos is credited with successfully negotiating the peaceful solution and has gained many new supporters in his campaign efforts.
October 6th, 2007 at 6:25 pm
AEM #86,
I agree, enough with the tool scam non-sense. Yes, that is the reason the business has not grown in the U.S. for at least a decade or two. I’m not waiting, I’m advocating the end of the scam, and am glad the UK DTI has taken the action against the scam. If I could fix it by myself, I would have done it already, but I am a PART of the solution. Just doing my part. I am committed to results, the Orrinites have shown they are committed to excuses.
Did your business law school tell you to scam your fellow “business partners” and “teammates”, by telling you to pay some of them and to require them to sign a contract to keep the scam secret from the others, and imply the income came from Quixtar, but most of it came from the tools? What you described is apples and oranges. You suck at the Quixtar business, and you always did.
I feel very good about looking back on my life, as I was part of fixing a known problem that has been around for more than a quarter of a century, and cost literally millions of former and current Distributors/IBO’s 100’s of millions to billions of dollars. I fully expect to hear, “Well done, my good and faithful servant.” And that doesn’t even cover the sucessful honest, ethical, and moral business I expect to put together after all of this mess is swept into the sewer drains of history.
October 6th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
Tex,
Why do you keep running around my questions? You just insult when I want to have an adult conversation. I want to know how often you look out for number one as you say Orrin is only doing. You seem to know him so well.
I have another question, did you pay for your Quixtar University and how much was it?
I also want to know your thoughts on the Jay Factor scam. Here’s some facts for you on that one - the products run through Alticor pull three times higher margins than most retail stores. What have the fearless leaders of Amway done besides fly their airplanes and build a hotel. For others right, yeah, so they will spend more money staying in the ritzy hotel and stuff the families pockets.
October 6th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Excellant posts amazed. In total agreement, couldn’t of said it any better and I won’t try. :o)
October 6th, 2007 at 6:49 pm
I guess this is a bit of a setback for Orrin’s plan for world domination. Yes, somehow out of the ashes he will somehow manage to create the largest business in the world and will pass Walmart.
As some folks wrote early on in this saga, very few people can understand Orrin because his genius is so far ahead of mere mortals.
Well, this mere mortal thinks that right now Orrin has a firm grip on an empty sack.
May God deliver onto Orrin the financial disruption he has led so many thousands of his “true believer’s” in.
I think of the many dispicable things I have seen about how this cult leader operates, there are two things that are glaring red lights that show his lack of character: (1) he continued to STP and have his group do so after the lawsuit - so he’s willing to continue to recruit people into the business he claims is illegal; and (2) he puuled other lines of sponsorship into his TEAM just months before pulling this stunt. Obviously he wanted the strength in numbers and could care less that these folks were unknowingly signing onto the “TEAM Kamikaze” flight.
If he’s an example of “visionary leadership” then may God have mercy on us all
October 6th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
How about an olive branch, Quixtar?
One final thought. It would be VERY RESPECTABLE of ALticor/Quixtar/Amway to offer “amnesty” once the last few cases are settled.
In other words, with these stunning losses there must be many TEAM people who realize they hitched their wagon to the wrong horse and now deeply regret choosing the Orrin cult over their business.
Perhaps Quixtar could give a one time “your ex wants you back” offer. The fact is MANY of these people were trying to make the best decision they could and, after years of loyally believing their upline, chose to gamble on Orrin in the very short window they had to make a decision.
October 6th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Dwight #87,
Haven’t you seen my “Little Miss Goodie Two Shoes” discussion?
In2WIN #88,
You go first. What’s your name?
I think there will be some good deals, but not just in the near term, but long term as well. Too bad many of the TEAM IBO’s quit, now they have to start all over again.
Kathy #89,
Well written. There Ros and Dwight, how’s that?
steven utah soon to be former ibo #90/1,
I think the IBOAI Board is less than useless. Jody is just another lying cowardly “kingpin”.
And you need a longer name.
First you slam me by accusing me of being JV, then you say I am being childish. Shame on you.
Ros #92,
I’m not sure if I fully understand your comment, I’ll just assume that was your usual “Miss Goodie Two Shoes” type of comment.
AEM #93,
I’ve written about the scam ad nauseum. Why don’t YOU read my posts and ask specific questions from my posts?
October 6th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Tex #70.
Alticor had the lawsuit hours before it was filled. That happened after Chris and Orrin were terminated against the rules.
1. August 9th Meeting went south. Chris and Orrin proposed quietly leaving.
2. 1.5 hrs later Orrin and Chris are terminated based on bad info Alticor thought they had. They didn’t come back to discuss options. Stupid Move.
3. Attorney from Alticor got a copy of the proposed CA lawsuit, not to be filed for, I believe 1.5 hrs or more. No response.
4. Lawsuit filed.
5. Q/A terminated without arbitration anyone they thought were part of the suit. Some may have quit first.
6. Q/A sued Orrin & Chris
7. IBOAI sued to keep 3% quiet along with other items.
8. Q/A started giving other team leader IBOs the choice of being terminated or leaving team. This move caused the most problem and was in violation of Q/A rules.
The rest is well known. Based on above Q/A blew this whole thing.
October 6th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
This whole mess could have been solved simply: June 2007.
Alticor tells the IBOAI that they want to change the name of Quixtar back to Amway, prior to making that final. The Board, says it won’t support that decision. Q/A says that they will do the same thing that was done in 1999, give the IBOs the choice of staying in the current Quixtar, with positive moves on pricing and products like they have been promising, or change to the new Amway, with the new corporate eduction system and new retail rules. IBOs can choose and it wont’ mess up the LOS. If Corporate does a good job of creating a possitive Amway brand in the US/Canada, etc. then the IBOs will switch, if they don’t they wont. This choice would remain for at least 3 years.
Did Q/A do the honorable thing, NO.
Alticor caused most of this whole mess by terminating or threatening to terminate IBOs without “due process” including the arbitration as required by Quixtar’s rules. All judges have pointed out that Quixtar has a valid Arbitration clause and it needs to be followed. All judges have told Quixtar that it too must follow its own rules. Q/A has not been, and the judge in California is making this clear.
Alticor has been acting like jerks for the last 2 months at least.
I have read posts from IBOs of 40 years that think just that. I certainly think so.
October 6th, 2007 at 8:04 pm
AEM #94,
You guessed wrong. Have you listened to the “Directly Speaking” recordings? Everything Rich DeVos said about the tool scam is still true.
Admin #95,
My guess is #96 doesn’t count, although I agree with the concept.
A Million Baby #98,
I already addressed #57, it was garbage. I also previously mentioned I reported the Open and Seminar problems to Quixtar and met with some of their attorneys.
A Million Baby #99,
Poor Ron and Toby Hale? Are you serious? Ron high-tailed it in typical “kingpin” fashion when he wouldn’t answer the simple question of how much tool profit he made. Open your eyes.
amazed #100,
TEAM has consistently been promoting that everyone follow the rules, except they had a multi-year record of repeatedly breaking several of them.
You don’t get a “special deal”, wait 6 months like everyone else and stop whining.
You can’t buy votes for Dick DeVos by proposing to break the non-compete rules. You haven’t seen ANYTHING yet, just wait until Orrin and Co. gets dragged into arbitration, shield the eyes of the women and children, it’s going to be ugly.
The time is long passed to fix broken relationships, Orrin ensured that with his illegal pyramid lawsuit.
October 6th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
Alticor Media Blog Administror
Why would you let some one have a handle like #96
it’s tasteless, tacky and disrespectful to alot of other bloggers. Oh yeah, you work for Alticor so anything goes when someone wants to bash one of your detractors. I forgot.
October 6th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
A Million Baby #103,
I always look out for number 1, but not at the expense of number 2, 3, 4, 5, ….
QU is free. And very well done.
You don’t get it, do you? Quixtar isn’t just a retailer, they are also a manufacturer, distribution network, and sales outlet. They have far more skin in the game than any other entity. They spend about 1/3 of the cost to manufacture and deliver the products, pay about 1/3 to IBO’s, and EARN about 1/3 for profit. Sounds fair to me. Get a clue.
THAT’s what the fearless leaders of Amway done besides fly their airplanes and build a hotel. For others right, yeah, so they will spend more money staying in the ritzy hotel and stuff the families pockets. What’s wrong with that, at least they aren’t being accused of having secret tool scam contracts, like TEAM has (or had, because all is exposed now, thanks to the TEAM lawsuit. Thanks, Orrin, you finally did something with your life.)
October 6th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
Kathy #89
Congratulations!!! I’m excited you’re doing the product demos and retailing and learning!!! Every month I find new products (some we’ve had for years) that I didn’t know about that I love!!! I love learning about new products too (and am thrilled w/ the Simply Nutrilite & Artistry Essentials) and can’t wait to see what’s next!!! Best of luck!!!
October 6th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
Actually, #111 Mark, you’re right. We should not have let that one pass.
October 6th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
JimZ #105,
Well said.
JimZ #106,
Temporary insanity plea?
Utah #108,
Alticor had the lawsuit hours before it was filed. You consider that a lot of time to respond to blackmail?
That happened after Chris and Orrin were terminated against the rules? You need to read the rules, probably for your first time, as they were NOT terminated against the rules.
1. Chris and Orrin blackmailed Quixtar, wanted to break even more rules on their way out, and wanted to keep this secret. This is far far from “proposed quietly leaving”.
2. 1.5 hrs later Orrin and Chris are terminated based on the above info Alticor was given by Chris and Orrin. They didn’t come back to discuss options. Smart Move.
3. Attorney from Alticor got a copy of the proposed CA lawsuit, not yet filed , I believe 1.5 hrs or more. No response. You call 1.5 hours a lot of time to reply to blackmail and a request to break even more rules on the way out?
4. Lawsuit filed.
5. Q/A terminated without arbitration anyone they thought were part of the suit. Some may have quit first. Good move.
6. Q/A sued Orrin & Chris, another good move.
7. IBOAI sued to keep 3% quiet along with other items. Good move. Although these numbers shouldn’t be secrets at the IBOAI level, because if the Board really represented the IBO’s, we should know this information as well. So in a way, I’m glad this information came out.
8. Q/A started giving other team leader IBOs the choice of being terminated or leaving team. This move caused the most problems and was the right thing to do, to protect the integrity of the business. What violation of Q/A rules do you think this is?
The rest is well known. Based on above Orrin blew this whole thing.
October 6th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
Utah #109,
This whole mess could have been solved simply: Early 1983.
Rich DeVos actually follows through with what he said on his “Directly Speaking recordings, and shuts down the tool scams.
I have already responded to most of your fantasy story of June 2007 in other posts.
October 6th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
Mark #112,
I agree, they should have added the word “really” in the middle.
October 6th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
NL #114,
You are off topic, this is the CA case DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE thread. As you were.
October 6th, 2007 at 10:11 pm
Just in time, as one tool scam case gets dismissed, another one surfaces: http://www.amquix.info/britt_skaggs.html
Why would it cost $2 million to put together some distribution software in the first place, isn’t there some off the shelf stuff that can do this?
October 6th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
big ego was inscripted in their toobm
sorry for the ones led to “heavens gate”
or was it destiny iland
October 6th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
Second notice, there is some HOT tool scam details in the above lawsuit, a must read for every IBO.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
Can anyone quote to me exactly which rule it was (only answer if you have the rule number) that team broke by building depth. That is what has been touted, so who can reply?
Tex - I will come back here 1 year from now to see where you are at then. We can discuss then TEAM, and our proven system. Oh, and Tex, can you please tell me what our tools cost, what the profits are, what the profit sharing is, or are you just rambling in ignorance? Perhaps you will come back with a smart remark to try and divert the attention off the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about. You seem to be the ‘expert’ on everything with TEAM and how it is so bad, so prove your knowledge with specifics… or can’t you do that..? Let’s see what your really made of… if you can give me a strait direct answer…
#96 - I can see by your name that you could use our training system. But that’s ok, you will be helping him be rich soon too, just like the people that didn’t like Sam Walton to begin with. One of them even became Wal-Mart’s CEO. Although if we were going by that I think that Tex is the most likely canidate.
JUST IN CASE ANYONE FORGOT, THE ISSUES ARE: PRICES. Quixtar is overpriced.
PROPERTY. We are NOT Quixtar property.
October 7th, 2007 at 12:06 am
Ros,
Just curious…you have been pleasant even when disagreeing with Team members and have made several fair points….wondered what area of the country you hailed from.
Thank you for the respectful tone you have set. I know Tex has HUGE issues with a lot of what Woodward et al stans for and he has that right. But is possible to express those same concerns in a way that is not denigrating, insulting and full of ridicule. You have !
PS…Tex…nope, not a love fest for Ros….though I’m sure you’ll poke fun at the post. I haven’t changed my mind about my position in this. Just thought I’d practice my people skills & give credit where credit is due.
October 7th, 2007 at 12:06 am
ps….yes, Tex. I KNOW stands is spelled stanDs…just a lousy typist..not a lousy speller !
October 7th, 2007 at 12:10 am
my bad….it really IS late…also missed a word…should say “But it is possible …..”
just hate to leave any little thing open to chance when you’re ( that’s you’re, not your…bugs me too ) saying anything Tex gets a charge out of. He is so sure that we’re ALL uneducated, lazy, stupid people. He can’t imagine that many of us all VERY well read and that we can spell “real goooooooooooood” !
October 7th, 2007 at 12:22 am
Now I’m just having fun….why-oh-why don’t I re-read these posts 3 times before hitting the submit button…or why isn’t there an edit button for 5 minutes after you send it ?
“many of us ARE very well read” …not “many of us all very well read “.
October 7th, 2007 at 12:27 am
Tex,
Do you get paid by the hour or per word for your blogging services? You must be making a fortune.
While you were busy being as rude, narrow minded, and redundant as humanly possible, I was at an outstanding TEAM seminar tonite. The speakers were AMAZING, and well worth the small price of admission.
Can you please explain to me how you believe the arbitration process can actually extend the non-compete period for former IBOs beyond the 6 month agreement? I’m anxious to hear your theory on that one…
October 7th, 2007 at 12:36 am
As you review the volumes posted by tex, remind yourself that he’s too chicken to build his business, that he lies as he finds it convenient, that he asserts the term “facts” when giving his opinion, and his interests are not in any way to help others. He has posted more detrimental material than any other source; so who is really hurting the business? Yup, it’s tex.
October 7th, 2007 at 12:53 am
Freedom #44
For you to say you have attended Team meetings and all they do is talk about how horrible Quixtar is an obvious lie. There is a specific structure to the meetings and explicit instruction to not bash any company. As for business as usual….this was because the Quixtar attorneys were looking for damages to blame on the team. There was no choice… As for system, I discuss system in my plan everytime and I have always discussed it. Go back to your upline…or their upline and get the proper clarification!
October 7th, 2007 at 1:04 am
Tex #115
I my years of military service I have encountered pathalogical liars. These people can look boldly at an item and then lie as to what they saw. You my friend meet that description! Quixtar attorneys were given the lawsuit 1.5 hours before it was filed-fact. They had ample time to simply call and sit down with a cup of coffee. If a team of highly paid attorneys cannot decide in 1.5 hours whether to call someone back…..Then fire them! Blackmail??? highly doubtful! Now go ahead pop off some stupid third grade tirade and show your intelligence.
October 7th, 2007 at 1:06 am
Tool Scam……in the perfect Britt World Wide organization??? Aren’t they the same organization Amway blamed for the UK disaster? Tex- How are you going to blame Orrin for this?
October 7th, 2007 at 1:42 am
I think this should be renamed the “Tex Media Blog”. Almost a quarter of the comments are pure Tex, most of which is just restatement of everyone else’s comments with his sad attempts at rebuttal. And not one “gee I see what you mean”, or “I understand your position”, or “let’s try to resolve the issue”.
Great guy, what an awesome leader! And he claims that we’d all be “shocked” to know who he really is because he claims he’s really not all that bad in real life? Well, whoever he is, this IS the real him, these thoughts are his.
October 7th, 2007 at 1:49 am
WARNING
Certain blog entries may contain negative remarks about everyone, including yourself. In case you find these entries offensive in nature, the best way to silence them is to simply IGNORE THEM.
Every person in the world is a unique creation with a positive purpose in life. There is no need for negative comments or arguments against them.
The actual subject of this blog was intended to be that a litigation case in California was dismissed.
Fact: The case was dismissed
Fact: The purpose of the case was to debate the contract between Quixtar and the IBOs.
Fact: There is a case pending arbitration to finalize the very same debates.
IGNORE THE DRAMA AND STAY POSITIVE! “All things work together for good for those who love the Lord”; since there are believers on both sides of this issue, we should look for a positive resolution for everyone!
BUILD UP PEOPLE, DON’T ATTACK THEM!!!
MODERATOR: Would it be possible to have some topic titles that could be presented in a win-win attitude? I, for one, am no longer an IBO, but I do not have any desire to be negative about the Alticor companies, and there is no reason for anyone to be negative towards others here. It would be nice to simply state facts that could be positive for all. There have been some disturbing posts that use statements about “God” in the same post as an attack against others; this should not be tolerated.
October 7th, 2007 at 1:53 am
Tex,
Of course the IBOs were terminated against the rules. Haven’t you read chapter 11? Don’t just ready chapter 12. All are in the upper D-58 about area in the rules. Any problem and the corporation starts with informal, then formal, etc. Things go though the IBOAI rules committee, etc. Arbitration and Termination are one of the last steps. Even if Quixtar ignored chapter 11 and went to chapter 12 and terminated someone, the IBO can appeal. It is not final. Quixtar didn’t initially tell those they were threatening that they had that option. Yes or No was what they wanted. If someone were to not answer, then the rules would have kicked in. That wasn’t clear in the Q/A notices. Q/A was trying to go around the rules using intimidation.
Like I said, Alticor has been acting like jerks. That is what is costing IBOs all over the country, within Team or not lots of volume. Most IBOs not part of team blew of the CA suit. It is the mean-ness of Alticor that has employees and IBOs wondering if they want to be involved anymore.
October 7th, 2007 at 3:57 am
Tex,
You still got some unanswered questions my friend. Why would a diamond who runs his own function system make all the audio from 2 major functions avaiable for free on his teams website, when he knows he can sell them on disc for $50 like he had done in the past?
And why would I hear Team leaders strongly encouraging people not to buy tools if they weren’t gonna be used? Also saying that if you buy a bunch of tools and never use them you’ve wasted your money? These are not exact quotes, by the way but points that were made. If they were running a tool selling scam, wouldn’t they be trying to sell tools to everyone they possibly could?
And one more, What exactly is your part of the solution?
Also in #110 you posted:
AEM #94,
You guessed wrong. Have you listened to the “Directly Speaking” recordings? Everything Rich DeVos said about the tool scam is still true.
What I am guessing is that your explanation of the situation if flawed. I’m comparing the way you explain things (to yourself)to a map, the better the explanation, the more useful the map, and that your explaination (map) accuratly describes what is going on as well as a map of chicago describes la. Maybe I was clear the first time and am really misunderstanding your response, if so help me out a little.
And (#107) I’m not going to waste my time scrolling back through posts when I could just ask you. If you understand it so well and get so fired up over it so much you should love talking about it.
A Million Baby Says
Thank you.
Amazed
Thank you for showing up, you see a wonderful solution for all parties involved. You are so right in 100 and 101.
October 7th, 2007 at 10:03 am
Tex -
If I’m correct about your timelines … your involvement predates all “tool scams” you’re quoting.
With or without an external training system - where’s fruit of YOUR labor, friend?
Is this it?
October 7th, 2007 at 10:32 am
JimZ #105 Said: About Orrin…… he puuled other lines of sponsorship into his TEAM just months before pulling this stunt. Obviously he wanted the strength in numbers and could care less that these folks were unknowingly signing onto the “TEAM Kamikaze” flight.
__________
This has always been my big frustration since this all started. Why would they (Orrin and Chris) do that to all the new organizations they were recruiting. Our LOS went way out on a limb to join the Team and it’s training system right before this all happened. We were not offical with the Team until Sept 1st but we had gone to months of opens & seminars and purchased all the tools and swithched over our ibocs to voice com, swithched our web sites to Team, learned the new plan…….all during the time that they were drawing up their lawsuit. So much time and money spent. I don’t understand this.
It has caused such frustration and confusion in our whole organization, and still is. We still do not have a “system” that we are promoting and not getting any answers from leadership as of yet. “We are working on it” is what they say. Everyone is doing their own thing. It is really confusing for the brand new IBO’s.
My concern is that if we do not have an accredited system of BSM and are not with an accredited LOS by Aug 2008, we will not earn the QBI bonouses and trips. Diamonds have until Jan 1 2008 to apply for accreditation. Jan 2 platinums and above may apply if their diamond had not.
What have I learned from all of this? To build MY BUSINESS! It is my business and not any one elses. To have a balance of leadership development and product knowledge. To trust my own instincts and gut feelings. To seek wisdom and understanding but not follow blindly. Self discern the knowledge and input I receive and make the descisions that best fit me and my family and my downline. Do the right thing based on principles and speak up directly to my diamond when I don’t agree.
Most importantly this is MY busines and not my upline or my LOS or anyone elses. If it is meant to be it is up to me and I need to take responsibility for it and not wait for someone upline to tell me what to do or what ’system’ to use. In my opinion there is far to much of that. If you opened your own traditional business and you waited on someone to tell you what to do you would never make it. I owned my own business (and still do) before Quixtar and the success of that business is because I took control of it and did it!
Also, to have multiple streams of income and the ole cliche is true:
“don’t put all of your eggs in one basket!” Use this great business as a vehicle for following your dream, and helping people along the way……..but don’t make it your only thing. Multiple streams of income is where it is at.
…….and lastly to try to always remember through all of this and life in general that….
“We don’t see things as they are…they see things we see things as we are.”
We all see this differently based on where ‘we’ are at the time and our experiences up to that point. Not right or wrong just different perspectives.
Kathy
ps thanks Tex & NL.
October 7th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
tex 78 (lowercase)
der im stupid because tex said so….must be true
lol
you have proved nothing except that you think you can bully people by criticizing them, deal with folks like you all the time. you know “think they know it alls”
leave the veitnam war along tex, you never served and you will never will (people that is)
IBO WILL BE USING TOOLS from 0 experience
and your not standing up against the scam, your standing up because you have a “big group” and you get paid by amway and you will be getting some of that money. we all know what a volume discount is and we know q/a is mass producing them because a diamond might have people in the thousands while q/a has then in the multiples of tens of thousands.
so much for your scam knowledge
people its ok to disagree with tex
tex quit trying to hide your insults you talk about people like you know them, mick and orrin(for example there is more im sure) your just defending your position, like any other persib who hasnt figured it out.
this is sounding more like tex, is having his “custers last stand”
except we will call is texass’ last whine!!!
bye bye tex volume
“volume dismissed” with team prejudice
hey you could a job on the view??
lol
October 7th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
tex#81
Thank You! I am at ease - since I resigned! I have to give you the credit, however. It was certainly the atmosphere of this blog that tipped the scale. Course, MAYBE that was the idea all along. IBO Groups becoming to large…Quixtar not being able to keep all the chicks in the pen…History will repeat itself. Sounds like 1999 a bit!
Has anyone asked you, how it is that you can respond to a posting within minutes, time & time again?
October 7th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
Time to simplify this…..
All California did was determine that those who wish to go will finish waiting their six months to go. Nothing more…nothing less.
The big “Victory” by Q in California is still a loss as those that are leaving are leaving anyway. They have not fixed why people want to leave. Name change and prices come to mind, along with emasculating the IBOAI board. We are not talking a “few” leaders, but thousands of IBOs have resigned.
All California did was delay the inevitable….
October 7th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
It is sad to see Amway disappear after so many years, but like so many large corporations that allow lawyers to run them, the companies lose thier basic moral structure and integrity.
What everyone keeps forgetting here is that Quixtar did not win - no did TEAM. The judge simply said that the case needed to be arbitrated - and was to similar to a case in another jurisdiction.
The major difference is in six months TEAM will be in a position to start an online business - Amway will be in another negative internet advertising position. It is pretty simply - Amway is done - it is just a matter of time.
October 7th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
zzzzzZZZZZZ!!!!!!!
AMWAY/QUIXTAR/ALTICOR WHATAEVER……PURE LIES!
ANYWAY YOU SCARED ABOUT TEAM?
UMMMM!!!
I WONDER WHY?
October 7th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Tex #119
Off the shelf workflow and order fulfillment software probably costs about $100,000. The remaining $1.1 Million is to customize it so every single parameter is flexible enough to allow the Kingpin to arbitrarily change all the rules and cut out entire groups on short notice - without an audit trail :)Despots require maximum flexibility, secrecy, and a minimum of records that are subject to subpoenas.
October 7th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Chris #41,
Were you terminated on August 9th?
If not, did you quit on August 9th?
If neither one is true for you, then 2/10/08 has no meaning for you.
Unless you plan not to follow the rules.
October 7th, 2007 at 9:27 pm
Hey TEX! Not only is Brit still a problem for you, but check this out;
A business partner of mine who lives in CA went to this weekend’s BDS for TEAM in Sacramento. Through a mix-up he went down the street to a convention put on by TEAM I N A. He saw all the usual posters on the walls. You know, “Power Player,” “TEAM 10″, “Turbo 25″ ect. All of TEAM’s slogans and building techniques. Right on down to “Have Fun, Make Money, Make a Difference.” Google TEAM I N A and you will see OUR plan and building techniques. In fact, I’ll bet the only thing they didn’t steal from TEAM is our fair and equitable profit sharing plan and our complete lack of a non-complete clause. You know, the one that Q lied about in a court document? Yeah…that one.
Point being this: Why is it somehow against the Rules of Conduct for TEAM to build in such a manner but it’s ok for TEAM I N A to do it?
Does it make a difference if we have I N A in our name?
Actually, can anybody answer this?
October 7th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
I loged into this site to get some info on what is going on, but all I see is people bickering with each other. What A waste of time.
Don’t bother replying to this, I won’t be back.
October 8th, 2007 at 12:01 am
TEX go run and tell everyone u are in AMAY it will go well!! haha
October 8th, 2007 at 12:01 am
AMWAY
October 8th, 2007 at 12:27 am
Ros #50
“I don’t agree with your view that Amway has a terrible reputation.”
Ok, what planet do you live on? How many people do you believe would accept to hear about your AMWAY business had you mentioned the word, “AMWAY”?
You see, YOU might not have a view of AMWAY’s terrible reputation, but that does not mean it’s not there…
I’ve been showing the plan for years now, and just about everyone says something to this effect, “This isn’t AMWAY, is it???”
Please Ros, tell me…that is if you’ve been in the business for any amount of time…has anyone ever asked YOU that?
October 8th, 2007 at 12:54 am
It is truly amazing to see the metamorphosis of the adversaries here. First, the Team folks early on were pointing ot the California lawsuit as a watershed event. It apparently was. So, the Michigan decision really was important. No matter how much smoke got blown by Team, now they are unhappy that the judges, whom they were counting upon, actually ruled in favor of A/Q.
That market forces comment made by the judge was a key from the outset. It indicated to me that he wasn’t going to go against precedent.
So now those Mighty 8/12/15/going to a million have to worry about having admitted to participating in an illegal pyramid wihtout A/Q as a basis for that admission. Cool.
Now this has degenerated into as nasty an argument as the week of Aug. 10th. BTW, Randy Haugen and Don WIlson apparently wanted out of this California lawsuit right at the beginning. From what I saw, they filed for separation on 8/9 or 8/10. It wasn’t granted until 9/25.
Anyone feel free to correct me on this…
I feel for Mr. Harteis. I know how it feels to have a business yanked out from under your feet. Our businesses are built on trust and friendship. All businesses are built that way. Once that is gone, everything falls apart. That is the lesson I got from Mr. Harteis’ letter over on the IBOAI site. The sad part of this is that it apparently wasn’t his own doing. Rather, he got a bigger bunch of the crap being splattered by all of these lawsuits.
I am waiting to see if the freetheibo sites start asking for donations to help defray the legal fees incurred and the preparation for the slander suits that should be in the offing by A/Q.
Time to move on….
October 8th, 2007 at 2:21 am
My buddy Tex,
From the Perspection Effect blog, I wanted to help clear up some misconceptions you seem to have. . .
“Because of solid depth was their earned bonus going to be bigger than seasoned high pins?…..
Could be! ——————————————- They also made FAR more on tools than Q, many TEAM folks stated that, not just me.”
If a movie theater makes more profits over the candies and refreshments it sells, could it not still say it’s a movie theater? would it have to have to call its self a pop-corn candy stand where you can also see movies? Why is it so important that the Quixtar profit be the biggest? By the way on many Team audio’s at the end during their disclaimer they mention some of the lifestyle depicted being the result of system money.
“Did TEAM have a fair for all, BSM profit sharing? … YES —————————————- How can it be “fair” when it is secret?”
There’s a Team audio by Chris Brady where he talks about every dollar of Teams profit is available to every IBO affiliated with Team. On the Team site was a little diagram explaining the same thing. It was there till Q had a problem with it and asked it be removed. So I’m not sure why you claim it to be secret. It’s not.
“Incentives? Who is eligible? ….. Q/A’s discretion? Who at Q/A decides? ———————————– You follow the rules, you get the incentives. Unlike the secret TEAM tool scam payouts.”
You are wrong here.
“We have been suspended on zero income because a downline was running a web site promoting our training system without our knowledge.”
- Jerry Scriven, a Diamond in England
An example of somebody who ended up on the wrong side of Amways discretion.
“Does AMWAY have a good name in the living rooms? … Not in any of the states I have STP! ———————————- That’s because of the tool scam.”
No the reason is because a lot of people know people who got involved and made no money. Few, very few people know someone who got in and makes money. When you show somebody the plan, you know what two questions they ask themselves and the two things they care about? 1. Does this plan work? 2. Will it work for me? If you help somebody live they way they want to live, I doubt they are gonna care about the money off the educational materials they learned from and used.
October 8th, 2007 at 2:22 am
turns out I had some time to waste
October 8th, 2007 at 7:52 am
Tex (#110 in reference to #98),
If you reported Team for not using Quixtar in the plan, then why are you not using Quixtar or Amway in your plan(s)? Isn’t that a little hypocritical?
Please refer back to #57, maybe you’ll get it this time. I know Celebrate Recovery is great, you should try it to take some of the edge off.
#115, Where do you get your information from? Is it strictly hearsay? Or were you actually there?
October 8th, 2007 at 9:07 am
Tex you sound like someone that has a lot of bull inside you you use this site to sling it. The bottom line is you believe what in your bull. And guess what that is all it is. Could be you enjoy bashing people. Like I said before you should go out and start your own company. Then I am sure you will do just fine. Then you will not have so much time to write a blog. That what makes America so great you have the right to sling the bull. It is called the fredom of speech. Have a great day Tex.
October 8th, 2007 at 10:18 am
Hey Gang -
Tex talks with us about having been involved for 40 years - which means his involvement pre-dates the “tool scams” as he puts it.
From the descriptions he’s provided, sounds like he had a downline at omne time (singular).
40 years - 1 downline - do the math.
Just be aware who you’re trying to play “THe Blame Game” with. There are amateurs and professionals.
Have a day!
October 8th, 2007 at 10:46 am
#122 Spartan:
You’re confused. Over-priced and property are NOT the issues. Good diversional tactic though.
October 8th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Dear team customers and Quixtar IBOS,
I am glad this is all over. I want to share how Quixtar IBOs will be fine and the business is better than ever right now.
I feel sorry for the TEAM peoples that have had their hopes deferred.
Robert Dickie of TEAM said that the TEAM #’s have dropped significantly, and that many are trying to return their products (his affidavit)
I went to my LOA upline conference this weekend - we are packing arenas, around 20k at two functions. We celebrated Free Enterprise in America.
I heard Rich Devos speak to us by video and it was awesome b/c he is no longer president of Quixtar…. it was a RARE message - He talked about Free Enterprise and how sometimes you have to Fight for your right to be in business.
Steve Leiberman was very good too - he talked about the business transformation.
The new products and retail incentives and new dress codes, etc… awesome! Its cool that Quixtar says we can start showing $73k platinum at open meetings.
The New Diamond Recognition & new Double Diamond Recognition with Red Carpet walk… it was amazing and gave a Dream to a lot of young people. Very cool – 3 new diamonds last year, 1 this year, and many many more coming soon. Our local team leader is finally close to Emerald, persistence rewarded.
We have around 20k at functions now and are focused on going to 100k in the next few years.
Reports from other Quixtar LOS is good too – the veteran leadership at Quixtar and in IBO organizations is amazing. Talking to other ibos – most don’t care or don’t know about the TEAM vs Quixtar fiasco. Team ibos may thing that it caused major negative… but most active ibos didn’t even given it a 2nd thought. It’s the inactive ibos that wanted an excuse to quit or delay, these are the ones that have engaged the most on the blogs.
I really feel that Quixtar and IBOs are more unified and more in harmony than in years. Reminds me of the unity that came during the 9/11 attacks in NYC. Quixtar is now expanded their communication, coming into the homes of ibos to listen about their experience. I really respect the humility of Quixtar to listen to IBOs (big & small) so they can understand current experience (good and bad) building a Quixtar business. I also appreciate the teachability, appreciation, & respect that my 12 diamonds in my LOA have shown to Quixtar.
I am still a firm believer in “Pride comes before the fall” after studying recorded history, and in my own life.
Quixtar and IBO Leaders – they are more humble than in years…. Pride and desire for Glory starts off great “we are better than everyone” but only ends it disaster.
TEAM lost bigtime.
When Orrin stepped away from Dexter Yager so early and setup a system where he received so much edification from “yes men”, and without proper respect for his new upline, Quixtar, it was only a matter of time before they had to fall. Too bad.
I believe in mentors, etc… but after my first two mentors in life make mistakes that I thought were impossible… i have finally learned that the only person that is alive today that will never disappoint me is Jesus Christ.
Quixtar got presented with a 500lb bench press and lifted it without a doubt. They will now become bigger and stronger than ever - thanks to Orrin.
I am headed to work with an internationally known missionary evangelist…. i want to do what Jesus did - i want to encourage, lift up, and heal the underdogs of the world… minister love to a hurting world… and i found some people who can show me how. I look forward to renew my positive attitude, optimism, hope, faith, and love.
Remember if your #1 love of business is b/c it is the way you were brought to know spiritual truths…. You don’t need this business to help others in the same way, just GO and TELL – it worked during bible days, it will work now. At the same time, building a Quixtar business in partnership with great Leaders is a great way to make a lot of money.. a LOT of money… AS you make a difference in your community, county, and world.
I apologize for some of my negative sarcastic remarks early on… I don’t want to be a critic which is why i only made a few statements in the last month after my initial 100’s of post early on. I was being a critic of a critic (Orrin Woodward on Quixtar). I do hope that Orrin has a bright future with his family. That he humbly changes millions of lives and empowers others to be free from man-made religions/systems that can manipulate people. Orrin is a voracious leader with proven track record of taking action as well. Knowledge acted upon is power.
It really does suck how great people/teams/systems are so much fun, give you hope, improve your life, etc.. and then can disappoint you… which is why many people give up on their dreams as they get older.
I say - do form or be part of a team, but don’t promote the leaders as gods where it becomes blasphemy to question any of their actions or character. Be part of a team but only give your heart of hearts to the one who will never ever disappoint you – he is the way, he is the truth, and he is the life.
JT
October 8th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
SPARTAN #122,
Why don’t you look it up yourself, even though it may be the first time you read the rules? Also, stacking wasn’t the only problem, there were several others.
Do you promise to come back in 1 year? Does this mean we don’t have to put up with your nonsense for 1 year? I know how much the tools cost (I have a little “birdie” who has access to the TEAM web site), I know the profits are MASSIVE, secrecy is required by contracts, and many Orrinites have backed up the above with their comments.
Regarding the costs:
0 Team CD $6.00 each
0 Spanish Team CD $6.00 each
0 PPS (Power Player Series) CD $6.00 each
0 Spanish PPS (Power Player Series) CD $6.00 each
0 BOM (Book of the Month)
0 Spanish BOM (Book of the Month)
0 SOL (Standing Order Leadership) CD $6.00 each
0 SOT (Monthly Standing Order Ticket) $25.00 each
0 Spanish SOT (Monthly Standing Order Ticket) $25.00 each
0 DVD of the Month $12.00 each
0 ERM (Emmaus Road Ministries) CD $6.00 each
0 ERMB (Emmaus Road Ministries Book)
Since the book prices change from month to month, there are no prices given. Nor are their prices for major functions, but by experience, I would expect them to be about $100-150, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the upline gets a kickback from the hotels. Also not included are how much is made on voice mail or the web site. Perhaps YOU can help me with these costs, which are probably also very similar to other LOS/LOA costs and resulting profits.
#96 - I can see by your name that you feel strongly. But that’s ok, you will be helping him be poor soon too, just like the people that didn’t like Ken Lay to begin with. He even became Enron’s CEO.
JUST IN CASE ANYONE FORGOT, THE ISSUES ARE:
TOOL SCAM. Quixtar is overpriced, is being fixed as we speak, and the tool scam must be shut down in all LOS/LOA’s.
October 8th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Why aren’t those freetheibo websites updated about the class action suit?
What new stories do you have now about your leaders’ secret strategies??
You spread so much crap about Amway - what will you say now???
You can follow your leaders, I’ll follow the one that made those leaders!
October 8th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
dannie #123/4/5/6,
That’s okay, I was just practicing my righteous indignation. You know, in a Christ-like manner?
What part of Orrin starting the mud-slinging with his “illegal pyramid” lawsuit do you not understand? Put yourself in a real IBO’s position when you think about this.
I usually don’t point out typos or other errors, unless the person is attempting to call me stupid, insult me, etc. So you get a pass. This time (although #126 is really pushing it).
whatever #127,
I get paid by the post/person responded to, whether it is long or short. That’s why most of mine are short.
I already explained how the non-compete/non-solicitation period could be extended, ask a more specific question.
toomuchtex #128,
At least you’re consistent at being WRONG.
Quixkicked #129,
What EXACTLY do you tell people about “system”?
That is another issue that has always made me curious, why is it referred to as “system”, instead of “the system”? Kind of spooky, just like what’s his name is referred to as “pastor”, like he is some kind of an icon.
Quixkicked #130,
I your years of military service you must have experienced massive head concussion, because you’re not thinking straight.Where is the lie? They didn’t want to mess with Orrin anymore, as ORRIN didn’t want to talk about how to follow the rules, so they terminated him. It’s easy to show intelligence with you, because you don’t have a clue.
Quixkicked #131,
I have said before most of the rest of the LOS/LOA’s are also running tool scams. Orrin was a very small fish in a very big pond.
cmon.people.think #132,
You’ve tried to make it about me, all I’ve done is said it is about the tool scam.
Shoot the messenger? Yep.
If you don’t want to talk facts, you won’t get any “gee I see what you mean”, or “I understand your position”, or “let’s try to resolve the issue” from me.
Great guy, what an awesome leader! Thanks.
And he claims that we’d all be “shocked” to know who he really is because he claims he’s really not all that bad in real life? That’s right.
Well, whoever he is, this IS the real him, these thoughts are his. Right again.
Ever hear of righteous indignation? Even Jesus Christ used it. Think about it. If you’re still confused, ask “Pastor”.
October 8th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
amazed #133,
Don’t forget the 11th Commandment: “Thou shalt not fake thyself out”, when you read your statement, below.
“…since there are believers on both sides of this issue, we should look for a positive resolution for everyone!”
MODERATOR:
You want “win-win”, and don’t want to be negative about Alticor companies? Get Orrin and every Orrinite who supported him to publicly state he was wrong about the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit. Then, have him publicly explain and debate why he thinks the tool scam is okay. It would be nice to simply state facts that could be positive for all. Don’t worry, I don’t think God needs the moderator’s help, He can handle it just fine.
Utah #134,
The corporation reserves the right to terminate, which can then be appealed. Did Orrin and Co. appeal? I doubt it. Besides, the multi-year issues probably took them through the lesser steps already.
Alticor acted correctly. Sometimes you have to prune rotten branches to heal the tree. Simple as that.
AEM #135,
I’m not your friend. Perhaps the Diamond figured out he could raise prices somewhere else and appear to be taking a smaller cut. Tell me more.
And why would you hear Team leaders strongly encouraging people not to buy tools if they weren’t gonna be used? To pressure people into buying them, that’s why. Doesn’t change the tool scam facts.
Also saying that if you buy a bunch of tools and never use them you’ve wasted your money? See above.
If they were running a tool selling scam, wouldn’t they be trying to sell tools to everyone they possibly could? No, this would create too much attention. Even a scam has its limitations.
What exactly is my part of the solution? To point out the tool scam and run my own honest business.
You guessed wrong. Have you listened to the “Directly Speaking” recordings? Everything Rich DeVos said about the tool scam is still true.
You said, “What I am guessing is that your explanation of the situation if flawed. I’m comparing the way you explain things (to yourself)to a map, the better the explanation, the more useful the map, and that your explaination (map) accuratly describes what is going on as well as a map of chicago describes la. Maybe I was clear the first time and am really misunderstanding your response, if so help me out a little.” WHAT? This makes no sense, what are you asking?
And (#107) you’re not going to waste your time scrolling back through posts when you could just ask me? If I understand it so well and get so fired up over it so much I should love talking about it. You made that mistake, relying on limited sources of input, when you bacame an Orrinite. Don’t do it again.
Amazed, thank you for showing up, you see a solution for all parties involved that is now impossible. You are so “late to the party” in 100 and 101.
October 8th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
Here was the part I was trying to wrap my mind around when I was trying to make a decision:
The team is badmouthing the overpriced products. I can understand that as I myself have complained to my uplines about SOME of the products costs. I’ve also found many products, even after shipping, to be cheaper. But I really only had two main questions. I asked them time and time again and, every time I asked, instead of answers I got Quixtar bashing. The two questions are:
1) I was told by my upline Wal Mart has an average 3% profit on their products and Amway has 17% (this was passed down from a past member of the IBOAI board according to what my upline said). If there is really a 14% difference, wouldn’t it be logical that Quixtar COULD drop some prices to make themselves competitive and ruin the teams one main point of focus?
2) I was told the team’s new “leadership development” business would pay $100 at 5 deep in two legs, $200 at 10 deep in two legs, and at 12 and 25 it gets into the thousands. This led to a three part question:
2a) They said my monthly cost would be $100 ($20 for 4 opens, $25 for a monthly training, $5 website, and lets round off to $50 for CD’s & book). Orrin says on his own CD about products being $50 more a month as an investment. If I was overspending by $50 a month, and now I’m being told to spend $100 a month, isn’t that more money out of pocket?
2b) Orrin himself talked how “leadership” tapes outside his business don’t work, because they say “you can do it”, but Orrin was like “do what?” Most negative comments I’ve heard about “Quixtar” outside of price comes back to spending a lot of money on tapes with no money coming in. How long are most new people going to keep spending $100 a month without being profitable before they are badmouthing the team and quitting?
2c) If the goal is to make people profitable, and at 5 deep in two legs you are making your money back (which I also asked if this model will stay the same when the Diamonds start getting paid again to which I got no answer), then where does all the extra money come from to pay upline? That means that for every person who ONLY goes 5 and 5 there is ONLY $1,000 to be passed through his entire upline. How will that work UNLESS the plan is to drive one leg down, put people on the system and “let the system do the work”, with hope that they don’t build a 2nd leg and therefor don’t make a single penny?
October 8th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
G #136,
My involvement does not predate all tool scams, but my study of the situation goes back before Amway started.
With or without an external training system - where’s fruit of YOUR labor, friend? Orrin is gone, the Orrinites are gone. That isn’t just the fruit, it is a feast.
Kathy #137,
Good post. My concern is that accreditation doesn’t fix the root problem, getting the tool scam fixed by making tool profits transparent to all IBO’s. What is the source of your dates?
ntks #138,
You said, “…der im stupid….”. No argument from me. The rest of your post proves it.
Lee #139,
“Has anyone asked you, how it is that you can respond to a posting within minutes, time & time again?” No, would you like to ask me?
timeandmoney #140,
Time to simplify this…..
All California did was determine that those who wish to sue Quixtar and support those who, will get their punishment in arbitration instead of the courts. Nothing more…nothing less.
The big “Victory” by Q in California is still a loss as those that are leaving will be punished in secret, rather than open court.
All California did was accelerate the inevitable slaughter of TEAM.
October 8th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
Girlpower #156
Of course it’s about pricing silly, what else would it be about? Have you read the complaint that got filed in CA? If you take pricing out of the picture nothing else matters. If you’re talking about something other than the CA case my apology’s for misunderstanding.
Don’t be fooled, what is in question is not Team’s business, but Quixtar’s. And it’s not in question just here in the US, but in the UK and india aswell. The only people questions Team business are on blogs, and the main reason they question it is because they are convinced Team is up to something they are not. They think because Team was a system business connected to Quixtar they must be scamming people. These people who critize Team don’t understand it, that’s why their critizisms are so far off base.
October 8th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Frustrated IBO #141,
It is great to see TEAM disappear after so many years of abuse, but like so many large egos that allow lawyers to run them, the Orrinites lost thier basic moral structure and integrity.
What everyone keeps forgetting here is that Quixtar did win - not TEAM. The judge simply said that the case needed to be arbitrated - and was to similar to a case in another jurisdiction.
The major difference is it may take much more than six months before TEAM will be in a position to start an online business - Amway will be move along without their baggage. It is pretty simply - Amway has done good - it is just a matter of time before it’s great.
JimZ #143,
Good point, but I sense somebody was milking the deal.
Jerad #145,
Ask Orrin how much he was getting paid for INA to use his trademarked materials. This issue is about a lot more than cutesy sayings, it is about how you ACTUALLY do the business, rather than how you SAY you do it.
fuddman #147/8,
Good catch, Amway is a hard word.
Rico #149,
The word “Amway” has been tarnished by the tool scam. Fix that and it won’t matter what you call it, within reason.
Richard the Lion-Hearted #150,
What is your source that Randy and Don wanted out in the beginning? I don’t feel sorry for Fred. ALL of them are lying cowardly “kingpins”, how can you possibly feel sorry for them? You may not see many libel/slander lawsuits from Q, but you may see some very full arbitration proceedings meetings.
AEM #151,
A movie theater never claims to be our “business partner” or “teammate”. Apples and oranges.
Why is it so important that the Quixtar profit be the biggest? Because we are supposed to be showing the Quixtar plan, not the “I’m Orrin, and I like to stuff my pockets with tool scam money” plan.
By the way on many Team audio’s at the end during their disclaimer they mention some of the lifestyle depicted being the result of system money? Really, I don’t seem to have ANY of those. I’ll keep listening for it. Besides, unless they say MOST of the lifestyle …. they are still lying.
October 8th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Quixkicked #129
Wow!!! So TEAM was continuing to promote Quixtar signups even when they were alleging in court that the Quixtar business was illegal, all so that Quixtar could not prove financial harm? And your leaders were telling you this? And you were okay with that? Wow again. How ethical.
October 8th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
My good good buddy Tex,
from #160
“I’m not your friend. Perhaps the Diamond figured out he could raise prices somewhere else and appear to be taking a smaller cut. Tell me more.”
Ok, a little bit after those audio’s became avaiable, he changed his top CD list from indiviual CD’s to MP3 discs allowing people to spend about $100 bucks instead of $300 for the same exact information. A little bit after that all his tool prices went down, with no added pressure from anywhere in his business to buy more.
“And why would you hear Team leaders strongly encouraging people not to buy tools if they weren’t gonna be used?
To pressure people into buying them, that’s why. Doesn’t change the tool scam facts.
If they were running a tool selling scam, wouldn’t they be trying to sell tools to everyone they possibly could?
No, this would create too much attention. Even a scam has its limitations.”
If that’s your honest reponse then you are dealing in paranoia more than anything else.
And what I meant with “What I am guessing is that your explanation of the situation if flawed. I’m comparing the way you explain things (to yourself)to a map, the better the explanation, the more useful the map, and that your explaination (map) accuratly describes what is going on as well as a map of chicago describes la. Maybe I was clear the first time and am really misunderstanding your response, if so help me out a little” Is that you don’t understand what you’re talking about. You need to educate youself.
Talk to you soon
Sincerly Yours
October 8th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
There’s nothing new, just the history you don’t know.
(from Qreilly’s site)
Here are a few passages from the best selling Jim Collins book, Good to Great. It tells a VERY familiar story of a once great company that refused to confront the brutal facts and change…
===============================================
In the early 1950’s the (Company), commonly known as A&P, stood as the largest retailing organization in the world and one of the largest corporations in the United States, at one point ranking behind only General Motors in annual sales. Then in the 1960’s, A&P began to falter, and over the next 25 years, Kroger (a relatively unknown competitor) generated cumulative returns ten times the market and eighty times better than A&P.
How did such a dramatic reversal of fortunes happen? And how could a company as great as A&P become so awful?…both companies had knowledge of how the world around them was changing. Yet one of these two companies confronted the brutal facts of reality head-on and completely changed its entire system in response; the other stuck its head in the sand.
In 1958, Forbes magazine described A&P as “the Hermit Kingdom” run as an absolute monarchy by an aging prince. Ralph Burger, the successor to the Hartford brothers who had built the A&P dynasty, sought to preserve two things above all else: cash dividends for the family foundation and the past glory of the Hartford brothers….He tried to carry out, against all opposition, what he thought Mr. John (Hartford) would have liked…(Burger) lived by the motto “You can’t argue with a hundred years of success.”
As the brutal facts about the mismatch between its past model and the changing world began to pile up, A&P mounted an increasingly spirited defense against those facts. In one series of events, the company opened a store called The Golden Key, a separate brand wherein it could experiment with new methods and models to learn what customers wanted. It sold no A&P branded products, it gave the store manager more freedom, it experimented with innovative new departments, and it began to evolve toward the modern superstore. Customers really liked it. Here, right under their noses, they began to discover the answer to the questions of why they were losing market share and what they could do about it.
What did A&P executives do with THE GOLDEN KEY?
They didn’t like the answers that it gave, so they closed it.
A&P then began a pattern of lurching from one strategy to another, always looking for a single-stroke solution to its problems. It held pep rallies, launched programs, grabbed fads, fired CEO’s, hired CEOs and fired them yet again. It launched what one industry observer called a “scorched earth policy”…by 1999…A&P had dwindled to a sad remnant of a once-great American institution…
Thank you Qrielly
Also speaking of history repeating it’s self, go look up the Ja-Ri Coporation.
October 8th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
Tex#165,
You missed. Why is it illegal for TEAM to use these techniques yet legal for TEAM I.N.A. to use them. That is the issue.
That is also strong evidence that Q didn’t have a problem with how TEAM built the business.
Their issue with us lay along a different path than the one Q claimed it did. That should be reason enough for you to question who you give allegiance to.
Also, can you show any evidence you have that Orrin was getting a check from TEAM I N A?
And finally, TEAM’s BDS in Phoenix was STANDING ROOM ONLY! Yes, I was very heartened to see that!
October 8th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
J Thompson #157, great to hear from you, thanks for sharing the info and your perspectives. I need to take some of your advice too, and spend less time blogging and more time building my business, which by the way is going brilliantly. Keep up your good work, and we’ll watch for great achievements from you in the future.
With much appreciation,
October 8th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
My best pal Tex #165
“A movie theater never claims to be our “business partner” or “teammate”. Apples and oranges.”
They don’t need to claim anything for my example to work. What’s your point?
Why is it so important that the Quixtar profit be the biggest? Because we are supposed to be showing the Quixtar plan, not the “I’m Orrin, and I like to stuff my pockets with tool scam money” plan.
1. The plan numbers they show in the plan are exactly in line with the numbers reported by Quixtar for the same level.
2. Tool profits are paid back! None of the profits from any of my tool purchases went to Orrin, they went to my upline. By the way Orrin is nowhere in my upline, niether is Ron and Toby or Dex.
3. Team advocated tranparancy with tool profits, quixtar doesn’t.
October 8th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
AEM #151 (continued),
I never heard Chris say that, or saw it on the site prior to it coming down. How do you explain the requirement that tool profit be kept secret, and the fact nobody from TEAM has addressed this for the past few weeks?
Also, I’m not your friend.
Is Jerry a Diamond, or former Diamond? Where did he say this? Do you have a link?
The reason they don’t know anyone who made any money is because of the tool scam. I have seen posts by multiple Platinums who said they didn’t even break even. Imagine how much their group was losing.
A Million Baby #153,
You are confusing contacting with showing the plan. I was actually there.
Mick #154,
I’ll stay right here until the job is done. It is called the freedom of speech. Have a great day Mick.
G #155
Hey Gang - G is full of it.
October 8th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
jthompson,
since you had 20K @ your recent conference, you might be interested to know that Team has sold over 70K tickets to our next major….guess we’re falling all to pieces, huh ?
October 8th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
Tex #172
“I never heard Chris say that, or saw it on the site prior to it coming down.” CD-Team 314, it’s in the first night pack. I’m not sure why you didn’t see the explanation on the site, maybe because you didn’t even look till after aug. 9th. It was still up after that date but not for long.
“How do you explain the requirement that tool profit be kept secret, and the fact nobody from TEAM has addressed this for the past few weeks?” It’s not secret and it’s moot, it’s not a question being asked by anybody but you and other people who think everything has to do with the tool scam.
“Also, I’m not your friend.”
Why would you say that? that hurt my feelings.
“Is Jerry a Diamond, or former Diamond? Where did he say this? Do you have a link?”
If you’re so well read you should know this already.
“The reason they don’t know anyone who made any money is because of the tool scam. I have seen posts by multiple Platinums who said they didn’t even break even. Imagine how much their group was losing.”
Width is a very ineffective approach to building a network of people, ever heard of spinning plates? That’s why so few people made money.
October 8th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
chaitanya #159,
Good point, it sounds like crickets chirping in the night on the pro-Orrinite sites. I’m sure part of their strategy for global domination….
freedom #162,
Good points, now I think you understand why TEAM is such a bad idea, but has cloaked themselves with Quixtar all this time. Now that they’re exposed for what they are, it doesn’t look very good, does it?
AEM #164,
The UK shut down the tools, not the Amway products. Figure it out.
BK #166,
Wow indeed. But when you’re used to scamming people, you don’t mind a little more.
AEM #167,
I’m not your buddy, let alone your good good buddy.
What happened to his function prices?
That’s my honest reponse then you are dealing in liars and cowards more than anything else.
Maybe if you asked specific questions, I could answer them, rather than how to read a map.
AEM #168,
The transformation promised this summer is unfolding before our eyes, and it’s looking good. Perhaps you should read the Lee Iacocca Chrysler story as well.
Jerad #169,
You missed it. Read my comment again.
October 8th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Tex asked: Kathy #137,
Good post. My concern is that accreditation doesn’t fix the root problem, getting the tool scam fixed by making tool profits transparent to all IBO’s. What is the source of your dates?
____________________________
I agree it is not the end all answer to the problem but it is a REALLY good start. This will prevent any LOS showing the business opportunity and omitting Quixtar/Amway from the presentation and self promoting their BSM as the opportunity.
This is also probably why the QBOB (Quixtar Business Opportunity Brochure), is required now. At least all IBO’s will be unified with this QBOB and the accreditation process by having our BSM approved that are given/shown to prospects. Hopefully it will reduce some IBO’s or LOS unethical practices, thus improving or reputaion as a whole. I hate defending what other unethical IBO’s are doing when prospects tell me their past experiences.
The source of my information and dates are Quixtar directly. I spoke with my sales advisor and asked her ….”what if my LOS/upline diamond does not become accredited?”…and she assured me that Platinums and above can apply on Jan 2nd for accreditation if their upline diamond does not do so by Jan 1, 2008. She told me the accreditation process is a fairly simple process, unlike before, and it takes 3-9months to complete. It must be completed by Aug 2008 to earn QBI bonuses and trips. I further questioned…….”what if your upline platinum IS your upline diamond?…when you reach platinum you don’t get to go on the Platinum trip because your upline didn’t become accredited?” She said that question had not come up yet and she would address that personaly, as she is on that committee. She assured me that their intent is to be inclusive and no one will be left behind, or miss trips, who wishes to become accredited.
Accreditation is still optional…however, to receive any QBI bonuses or trips you must be accredited. I can’t imagine any LOS will not apply for accreditation, unless they don’t currently have a ’system’ or BSM like many who were affiliated with Team. Uuugh! Which is why I am so persistent with asking my upline diamond what system he is promoting! Time is of the essence!
I agree that the tool problems need to be addressed and if the profits were transparent for all to see we wouldn’t have so much speculation. I wish ‘tool reporting’ was part of the accreditation process and it was posted on the Quixtar site for all to see.
Kathy
October 8th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
My Old friend Tex #175
“The UK shut down the tools, not the Amway products. Figure it out.”
I coulda sworn I read from Amway UK that they were also dropping prices on the core line products, why do that if pricing was not a issue with the DTI. And the UK did not shut down anything, the DTI had big issue’s with the way Amway ran their UK business and Amway UK changed a bunch of stuff to keep themselves legal.
October 8th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
???
Hey JT? I thought you said, repeatedly I might add, that you were not a Q business owner. Now you say that you went to your LOS’s conference. Were you lying then or are you lying now?
And after you had a full blog of lies when should we expect to be able to start believing in you?
October 8th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
AEM, AEM’s bestest-friend-in-the-whole-world Tex, JT, and all other current or former IBOs… Just in case I don’t have another opportunity to say it… Happy Thanksgiving!! We should all get together and have turkey! I know… Louisville, KY is nice, say… next weekend or something??? I’ll be there, where will you be?
JT, it is very nice to read that you and I agree. There is no reason for any of us to argue! I wish you the best in your business!
IT’S A RACE TO 1 MILLION AND BEYOND!!! WHOEVER “CROSSES THE FINISH LINE” FIRST, GETS A COOKIE!
October 8th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
Question to all LOS’s:
Have your upline diamonds talked about the accreditation process and what they are planning on doing about becoming accredited?
There are currently only 3 current accredited LOS organizations:
1). eFinity
2). (Team 5k - Chuck Goetschel’s group was the 2nd one but not anymore)
3). MMP
4). ProSystem One
That’s it so far! There is a lot out there who need to start the process. Who else has started?
Kathy
October 8th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Hey Tex:
I’m the business partner that Jerad Smith was referring to. Our question is this, and please stop avoiding it: Why is it OK for Team INA to build their businesses in the EXACT same manner as Team, but the Team is wrongfully accused of “stacking”?
October 8th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
AEM #171,
Your example doesn’t work if the movie theater doesn’t claim to be your “business partner” or “teammate”. That’s my point.
1. The plan numbers they show in the plan are exactly in line with the numbers reported by Quixtar for the same level. —-But they lie when they get to when the tool profits kick in.
2. Tool profits are paid back! None of the profits from any of my tool purchases went to Orrin, they went to my upline. By the way Orrin is nowhere in my upline, niether is Ron and Toby or Dex. —- Good. Do you tell them this, and the MASSIVE amount of money “paid back”?
3. Team advocated tranparancy with tool profits, quixtar doesn’t. —- First, prove it. Second, why not lower tool prices, if Quixtar was preventing you from being transparent about the tool profits?
dannie #173,
Really? I thought TEAM had a total of about 75,000 IBO’s, so I think you’re lying.
Plus, from the Kentucky Exposition Center web site: “Over 73,000 visitors can pour into the facility’s two arenas and stadium simultaneously.” You’re going to use both arenas and stadium simultaneously? I think you’re lying again.
Too many people have quit and/or are frozen in their tracks. The numbers just don’t add up.
However, I admire (in a perverted kind of way) your Britt tactic of “speaking into existance” the reality you so desperately wish you had.
AEM #174,
I saw the site way prior to August 9th. Why would they take it down after August 9th, isn’t this how they plan to make money, and Quixtar is out of the picture now? Your explanation doesn’t pass the smell test. What did it say? Did it get into quantities of tool money?
Now it’s moot, after both Ron Simmons and Chuck Goetschel said Quixtar said not to disclose it. Right…. The reason we’re asking is because it is important, it is the major source of profit for Platinums and above. How can you say it’s unimportant and moot?
Why would you say that? that hurt my feelings. Because it’s true. Sometimes the truth is more important than feelings, especially when you’re dealing with liars and cowards.
“Is Jerry a Diamond, or former Diamond? Where did he say this? Do you have a link?”
If you’re so well read you should know this already. —- Obviously he didn’t say it, thanks.
Width is a very ineffective approach to building a network of people, ever heard of spinning plates? That’s why so few people made money. —- Depth makes the Q profit even less for a Platinum. What’s your point, we’re talking about a pin level and volume, not the relative ease of using different techniques to get to the Platinum level. You are dodging the question, again.
October 8th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
You guys have no idea whats about to happen. TEAM IBO’s dont waste your time on this site. Like one of our leaders said people of integrity expect to be believed and when there not they let time prove them right.
Hey Tex have you checked out the #14 spot on the wall street Journals non fiction best sellers list.
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2007/10/04/lists_of_best_selling_books/
October 8th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Kathy #176,
This will prevent any LOS showing the business opportunity and omitting Quixtar/Amway from the presentation and self promoting their BSM as the opportunity. —- I don’t see much in the accreditation that talks about not omitting A/Q from the presentation in the accreditation, and the self promoting of their BSM is not normally shown as the main opportunity, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t the main opportunity.
This is also probably why the QBOB (Quixtar Business Opportunity Brochure), is required now. —- But the SA4400 was always required, how does this help?
At least all IBO’s will be unified with this QBOB and the accreditation process by having our BSM approved that are given/shown to prospects. —- I’m afraid these “Seals of Approval” will not help much, and could very well give a false sense of security to the prospects.
Hopefully it will reduce some IBO’s or LOS unethical practices, thus improving or reputaion as a whole. —- Not saying it won’t help, just not very much.
I hate defending what other unethical IBO’s are doing when prospects tell me their past experiences. —- Me too, and I don’t defend them. I tell them how what we are doing is drastically different.
Thanks for the source info. I have asked for “Accreditation Lite” for smaller groups, even individual IBO’s. They should be able to streamline the process for smaller groups, as the potenial damage is smaller for smaller groups. When the group gets bigger, a more detailed and in-depth process can be followed.
I agree time is of the essence.
Thanks for agreeing tool profits should be transparent. This will solve most of the tool scam problems.
AEM #177,
I am not your friend, let alone your old friend.
I never said pricing wasn’t an issue, but the tool systems are still shut down. Why do you think they couldn’t have reduced tool prices and be back up and running by now? The UK wanted to shut down everything, but Amway convinced them they could get a handle on matters. It is still planned to go to court, so the “fat lady” hasn’t sung yet in the UK.
The tools are still shut down, how can you say, “And the UK did not shut down anything, the DTI had big issue’s with the way Amway ran their UK business and Amway UK changed a bunch of stuff to keep themselves legal.”? It is obviously much more of a tool scam issue than an Amway pricing issue.
Jerad #178,
You don’t have to be an IBO to go to a conference.
amazed #179,
Enjoy Orrin in KY. You’ll have turkey early, with him around. I may be there, spying. But you’ll be able to find me easily, I’ll be wear a dark suit, white shirt, red tie, and wearing a goofy smile, just like Orrin’s. Look me up.
Kathy #180,
I talked with someone with iteamusa.com a couple of months ago, and they said they were “immenent”. I don’t know if they got delayed, or the Orrinite crash delayed them. Britt’s group doesn’t look too close, given the lawsuit I posted earlier. Other than that, I’ve heard nothing.
Ron #181,
You also need to read my post again.
October 8th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
178 Jared
Jared, you appear to have a lot of passion and conviction, and you seem to be very loyal stubbon person (being stubborn can be good) - I think you can do great positive things in the future.
LOA means line of affiliation
LOS means line of sponsorship
now read it again and you will see I did not lie b/c i did not say anything about going to my LOS event, i said loa.
Jared - what are you going to do? Are you recruiting people to join TEAM?
I wish you good success in the future in any positive endeavor you do.
180 - as far as acceditation - Steve Leiberman in person and Rich Devos by video - talked about how we (the LOA i have associated with)can NOW promote a 73k 6-4-2 platinum plan (including the new QBI incentives) so the way i interrupt that - it means that a bunch of teams like my LOA are about to be accredited… its just a matter of doing some paperwork…. OR that accrediation is not necessary for QBI 60 million dollars.
_______
p.s. diffence between critism and counsel
- critism tells you that you will fail in doing what you are doing, or its not good, being negative
- counsel does not end at the problem, gives you a solution, and alternative, a BETTER way.
So if someone criticizes Quixtar, please give me a better solution - here is what most people want that they see in Quixtar
1. Security in their supplier/mlm Company - track record of being private company that will be around for many years… have overcome obstacles…
2. Training and Mentorship - many mlm companies, you are kind of left alone, no help
3. time and money potential of mlm. What business Can I start for a hundred bucks and earn 100k per year EXTRA to my job
4. I could go on an on…
________
173 d - thats great… then was Dickie and the other TEAM affidavits not telling the truth? I am just quoting them… they said that after aug 10 - their numbers have fallen dramatically. (They act suprised as if Quixtar was the one that sued them. If i was building a NuSkin mlm business and filed lawsuits against NuSkin, i would expect my #s to go down)
___
Now Jared, you can go back to misrepresenting what i say if you like or call me names… i have got work to do any have meant to give one closing long message which i have…..
Ok bye!
Thanks TEAM for challenging Quixtar business - helping them to make one of the (if not the very) best Network Marketing Company in the World - to get even better.
After attending last function - the business is completely new! Wow!
October 8th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
BK #166
Obviously you are so short sighted that you are blind to the fact that we were still Quixtar IBO’s! The issue at that time was between Quixtar and the people they terminated! As an IBO, I, along with my upline were building in the event the two sides worked it out! We could have shut down our businesses….that doesn’t make sense. If we did we proved Quixtar’s “irrepairable harm” defense and indirectly pulled ourselves into the mess!So please, in the future think before you attack!
October 8th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Tex #160
Just more proof of your lack of intelligence! Spouting garbage with no substance. Facts are facts- Quixtar lead Orrin to believe if he didn’t like the changes they would work with him on leaving! Fact- They chose to cop out and blow him out of the business! Your response to this I sure will only amount to your normal gibberish! This obviously didn’t have to be this way…..Quixtar tried to intimidate the Team and made a choice to not respond! As for case dismissed…it’s headed for arbitration because the judge didn’t want to hear the case…has nothing to do with the merits of the case!
October 8th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Ron A #181, I’m in INA, a sub-Platinum. I don’t speak for INA, but I’ve asked upline for a definitive answer. In the meantime, what I can tell you based on my personal experience is:
* INA didn’t require people to buy product or tools at sign-up, although some in INA were trending in this direction this past spring and summer. However we have been explaining the advantages during sign up of the Intro Product Pack or other product lines people may choose to lead with, as appropriate, and if anyone in INA has tried to get a system subscription as part of the registration process, I’m sure it will be “fixed” in Accreditation, as INA has applied for accreditation.
* Some of the verbage INA was teaching was that Quixtar is “the supplier” but not teaching that it was “a supplier” that could be changed if INA ever decided to go in a different direction
* INA, or at least my upline, was also teaching strong First Circle retail sales… whether at full “retail” (many were and are) or at IBO cost, but either way, retail to non-IBOs, real customers. My upline Diamond has taught from day one that the first goal is to “get 10-15 corporately serviced customers,” by which he means “on Ditto.” Of course, you don’t have to wait until you have 10-15 customers before you start sponsoring.
* at no point in its materials or verbally on CDs or seminars has INA ever taught that the products are priced too high to sell at retail. Never. Never. When I complained (as I did to my upline) that some products were clearly priced above market and value, I was told to go work with the ones that were well priced, and there are lots of them. And my focus was/is on Health, not toilet paper and diapers.
* at no point has INA had a requirement (not even an unwritten one) that if you didn’t subscribe to their tools at signup, they wouldn’t register you… see Ron Simmon’s letter to Jim Payne of this past summer.
* INA has never taught purchasing products just to fulfil personal PV or customer volume requirements… neither formally nor as an under the table practice
What INA did that was similar to TEAM was teach Content, Commerce and Community, and that our job was to build community and drive traffic to Quixtar’s website (amongst other things). Strategic Partners, Go-Getter, Going Turbo (various levels), Ditto on the First (DOT 1). We were also taught to do depth building in teams (Driver Teams) very much like TEAM, and Volume Teams to assist in getting new IBOs or Customers onto a variety of other product lines to maximinze “share of customer” consumables spending in as many product areas as possible. In my Diamond’s group, at least, he taught immediate First Circle and some width early to grow “balanced” from Day 1. This would be a weakness of INA’s more recent “TEAM” approach (not his), perhaps too much emphasis on depth before width, in teaching over the past year or so. Again, this will get fixed through Accreditation if not already.
One of the areas where INA was getting off track was in how new IBOs in depth were being registered. I heard of groups where the newest IBO was sometimes being placed at the bottom tip of a growing leg regardless of whether the direct “sponsor” named on the application knew them, like TEAM. Usually they would know their sponsor, but not necessarily always. Supposedly they would or were to be introduced to their actual sponsor at the next meeting (if they showed up) or by phone or email. But this was corrected after the Corp’s letter in July? sometime clarifying what would and wouldn’t be tolerated in terms of Depth building as of Sept. 1. As far as I know, INA has conformed and corrected on that… without questions and without getting themselves into the legal tar of a lawsuit that subsequently was thrown out of court and sent to arbitration.
Other “things” INA taught that were/are similar: Have Fun, Make Money, Make a Difference. Household Gold (not a TEAM concept per se). The Fast Start, etc. Leadership bonus — the 4% override at 29%. It’s a Team Effort. Addition, Multiplication, Exponential growth, By the way, many of the above points weren’t unique to TEAM… INA was teaching much of this long before exposure to TEAM processes, in fact, when working with Casey Comden’s Business Owner’s Focus Board teaching which pre-dated the TEAM iterative changes. But INA, or at least my Diamond, always taught those growth patterns along with First Circle retail customers, not just running long strings of IBOs with little or no volume.
And furthermore, at no point did INA start planning to set up it’s own competing direct sales organization (see “Pirate’s” posts on IBOFightBack’s site a few weeks ago, claiming he was on the TEAM senior leadership team and that they had been planning this break-away to set up their own Walmart-competitive MLM for a long time. I don’t know who “Pirate” is but his writing and rhetorical style were very similar to Ron Simmons).
INA came close to drinking the purple Kool-aid aka Jim Jones, but not quite. A couple of their big pins — Beverley Sallee, Jim Janz, maybe others — pulled the plug on INA (ie. gave notice they were severing relations with INA) until INA suddenly came to its senses when they read the silly but intentionally destructive lawsuit that claimed Quixtar was and had been for many years, an “illegal pyramid” and a “criminal organization.” etc. etc. What I don’t know for sure (info request upline pending) is whether any INA Diamonds went to TEAM on their own without INA. But I doubt it as the two most likely to do so were also some of the most plugged in to XS and the Sip 2 Eat 1 approach, which was originally ‘invented’ and taught by the WWDB organization, Greg Duncan to be specifc.
So has INA been perfect in what they were teaching and moving toward? No, not in my estimation. But they were careful all along the way to stay in close touch with the Quixtar’s Rules and Business people to ensure with each change they were making that they were doing it fully within the rules, no questions asked, and no trying to drive as close to the edge of the cliff as they could without falling off. And when told to make changes, they complied immediately with no fussing around.
Sorry about the Kool-aid comment above, but it is kind of how I see it from my perspective. No personal insult intended.
With appreciation,
October 8th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
team ibo #183,
Too bad they didn’t put it in the right category, Fiction.
How many dozens of copies did you buy, in order to pimp up the numbers?
I noticed the publisher is “Business Plus”, I thought it was supposed to be Time-Warner? Did they get cold feet, and back out on the deal as a result of the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit?
Too bad you pushed Tony Dungy’s book down one place, he’s a much better example of real leadership.
October 8th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
>>This is also probably why the QBOB (Quixtar Business Opportunity Brochure), is required now. —- But the SA4400 was always required, how does this help?
The Team had the SA-4400 in their 2nd over night pack and it wasn’t shown up front when they showed the plan at Opens. Quixtar was not mentioned at the opens and it was all about the Team. New prospects did not leave a Team open thinking they just saw a Quixtar business opportunity, they believe they saw a “Team” business opportunity. (quote)…”A leadership development organization through which products and service flow.” They refered to their “supplier” as not the important part, but the community, the Team, as the important part. Not until a later date did prospects hear of Quixtar or see the SA-4400. None of the 1st night pack had any mention of Quixtar either. The SA-4400 was listed in the Team registration process to give at registration.
Now the QBOB is required when FIRST showing of the business opportunity upfront. Quixtar rule actualy says now:
>This brochure is so important that we’re requiring you to give it to prospective IBOs during the first presentation or discussion of the Plan, (so everyone knows upfront it is Quixtar).
Yes, people can still abuse this rule but I think it is an improvement and Quixtar is on top of it more and will not tolerate those deceptions anymore.
jthompson said:
180 - as far as acceditation - Steve Leiberman in person and Rich Devos by video - talked about how we (the LOA i have associated with)can NOW promote a 73k 6-4-2 platinum plan (including the new QBI incentives) so the way i interrupt that - it means that a bunch of teams like my LOA are about to be accredited… its just a matter of doing some paperwork…. OR that accrediation is not necessary for QBI 60 million dollars.
____
I bet you’re right that there are several organizations that are close to being accredited already, good point. I will keep checking the official site to follow it and Quixtar posts it in the ‘what’s new’section every time organizations are accredited.
http://quixtaraccreditation.com/us-en/accredited.html
But as far as accreditation not being necessary check out the Quixtar Business Incentives Q & A Brochure on the Quixtar site;
click on Quixtar & the Opportunity > Quixtar Business Incentives (QBI) > 2008 QBI Program > QBI Q & A flier > page 2; question #3 states:
Q >Do I need to be a part of an accredited organization to earn QBI 2008 cas awards and busniness conferences?
A >Yes,Platinums and above earning annual QBI cash awards and business conferences must achieve Quixtar Professional Development Accreditation Program (PDAP)criteria by August 31, 2008. This requires that you be apart of an accredited IBO organization. You can also achieve PDAP criteria on your own. Please check www.quixtaraccreditation.com fro further deatails as they become available.
That is precisely why I called corporte to find out what to do if my diamond does not become accredited, when I read that Q & A.
Kathy
I am curious if the new welcome orientation that is for new IBO’s asks the question…….”did you receice the QBOB?”….anyone know the answer to that? That would give Q/A immediate feedback.
October 8th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
tex #78
you have proved nothing, except you like to bully,
Oh and yes (whimper whimper) my feelings are so hurt by your harsh words i just aint a goods as speller as yous.
lol
that right lets not talk about the tools q/a are using,
lol thats funny are they charging for these tools?? or are they in the mark up of the products you know that jay rule thing????
its like custers last stand
except we could call it tex’s last whine
you havent defended anthing here except a business whos time is coming to a end, so maybe go to retail shops oh wait that is already in the mix isnt it, or sell xs at the arena…..
who is getting the volume from that????
try these words out tex
volume dismissed with prejudice.
im gone too
im out of quixtar amway and i done arguing with a old dog who thinks he knows new tricks
thanks tex
just so you know i was never in team lol i just appreciate them having the guts to do what they are doing, i hope i find one of them after their no compete is up,
and you have convienced me you are as loyal as a lemur
not the kings subject
October 8th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
Here is another answer(s) I was wondering, but could never get answered:
Isn’t the team and their tools basically originated by Orrin and Chris and go down from them? If it is, when Chuck, Wilson, Haugen, Newton, and anyone else decided to join the team, wouldn’t they be placed somewhere on Orrin and/or Chris’ teams? They didn’t bring them over and put them someplace they had no upline did they?
And the big question is………if all these people are added to the team, and they all would fall somewhere under Orrin and Chris, then non-profit (which was a good selling point until I gave it some thought) or not wouldn’t the people with the most numbers on their team make the most money????????
So, basically, since I could never get answers and most people would admit that refusing to answer the question is in a way an admitance, why should I think anything other than simply by bringing all these Diamonds on the team Orrin and Chris would make a lot more money without doing any additional work?
October 8th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
To all those so blindly loyal to this Q/A/TEAM thing. I would highly recommend watching the Dateline Special that came out earlier this year(you can find it on YOU tube). Come on people, wake up and smell the scam alert…from both sides. Want some facts… 6 new emeralds since quixtar launched in 99. 5 of those came from TEAM. The only reason they were successful is because they distanced themselves from quixtar,( the people who contacted us said that quixtar was a vendor and TEAM was the business). You all know the products are over priced and most of them lagg behind the trends in the market, well, most except for the energy drinks, which after 6 months of those my wife and I had raging migrane headaches if we weren’t sucking them down one after the other. We invested thousands in a (TEAM) system that was basically copied from three main sources, past Quixtar/Amway IBOS and distributors, successful business men and authors from around the world, and GM. We invested thousands in Quixtar products that are now rotting in our cupboards because they are priced way out of retail range and I personally feel like I’m going to throw up any time I eat any of it and thats pretty bad cause I’m a health food freak. The only reason you hang around is because some one told you this would get you your dreams. Dreaming gets you your dreams…not this. Dreaming is the best thing around…not this. I mean just look at the friut on both trees. They all have one interest in mind profits, not your dreams. This is coporate America at its worst, the two sides are just playing different games and the end result all IBOs Q/A or TEAM lose.
October 8th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Hold on JT, I’ve never intentionally misrepresented anything you’ve ever said. But you are going to have to further explain the difference between LOA and LOS.
Are you saying that you are in an education system that supports Q but are not in Q?
And Tex, as my partner said, you’ve dodged my quesion.
October 8th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
#164 AEM
#122 Spartan
It ISN’T about overpriced products. That IS a diversion tactic, as GirlPower pointed out.
Why do I say that? Because the two products Orrin, in the original 47-page lawsuit he filed against Quixtar, singled out and said were NOT “overpriced”, are.
(I put “overpriced” in quotes b/c the concept of “overpriced” is relative. What I consider “overpriced” is priced just perfectly to someone else. Some even think it’s a deal!)
XS Energy Drink costs more than any other energy drink on the market.
All 20 bars offered by Quixtar cost more than any other bars on the market.
He says he “begged” the Corp to give us IBOs more products PRICED like XS and the bars.
Please. He’s so in love with Wal-Mart, yet I doubt he went to Wal-Mart and checked how much energy drinks and bars cost. A heck of a lot less than Quixtar’s.
That’s one (major) reason why the lawsuit is a piece of crap. The guy doesn’t even know how to do a price-comparison and his whole “argument” is on pricing.
Perfect.
October 8th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
Tex -
Assumption is a terrible thing. But I’m not surprised.
Part of Coniguliaro group. Have managed to build a respectable business. And am still mature enough to recognize that there’s seldom - if ever - 100% right or 100% wrong in disputes between humans. However, Corp has clearly proven they really don’t care who gets ran over when they pull the old switcheroo.
However, anyone who is inactive with biz before, during or after (besides blogging & personal consumption) might be safe for now.
btw - Sponsor that PC yet? Or just “working on it”?
October 8th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Tex,
My main point was simply that Amway’s reputation is tarnished…not how or why, but that it is.
Ros up there is running around saying that Amway doesn’t have a bad reputation?? She’s either not showing the plan or she is in serious denial.
Now, on to the why…you cannot only point your finger at the tools. You have to consider the many variables that come into play.
1. I will agree with you that the tool business has contributed to the bad rap. The tool part has to be done right.
2. Of course, the product pricing. And the fact that I’ve seen several posts that say “they are working on the prices” only adds to the validity of this imposing problem.
Now these two alone are enough to make a new IBO travel worn. My honest opinion is that high product pricing is still the shot in the gut for new IBO’s. I DREADED shopping meetings when the prices raised their ugly heads and said, “What did you expect, this isn’t Wal-Mart!” Whereas the tool prices were much more palatable to the new, eager-to-learn IBO.
Obviously, the over-the-top IBO that jumped out of bushes and called all their friends nine-thousand times to hear about a business…that will do a little tarnishing.
You know, Southwest Airlines did a commercial ripping Amway. It showed a nice looking couple who had just been invited over for dinner from an old friend. The hosts said, “Before we get started with dinner, we have a SUPER business opportunity we’d like to share with you…” Wife brings over white board that says, “BE YOUR OWN BOSS!!” Then pan back to husband who simply states, “Cleaning products!” Cut to unsuspecting dinner guests who stood aghast at the taboo invitation. Voice Over- “Want to get away?? Now you can!”
My point is, you cannot direct so much energy on the tools being the single most reason Amway’s reputation is tarnished. I know that that defense serves you well. You are very rehearsed in the tool scam rhetoric. But there are other very obvious and very serious reasons that the public will not just brush off the negative perception that single word invites. The key factor is, “PERCEPTION”. It doesn’t matter if Amway becomes the crown jewel of business models. The perception would far outweigh the reality no matter how much you really really want it to be different.
October 8th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
i heard TEX. ITS NOT IBO…
CHECK HIS OWN WEB SITE www.loser&quiter.com
TEAM IS READYYYYYY)))))))))
UN MILLON DE LIDERES!!!!
QUE SE QUEDEN LOS SEGUIDORES EN QUIXTAR
SOLO LIDERES EN TEAM
October 8th, 2007 at 11:17 pm
Tex # 173
So show up & see if I’m lying. What makes you think you have any ( ACCURATE ) idea of how many people are in Team ? Who gave you the membership roster ?
What would be the point in lying about anything that could so easily be verified ? If the place is full, I’m right.
If not, you are…..easy enough.
October 8th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
I love TEAM_MEX.
October 8th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
Kathy #190
Network 21 (JThompson’s LOA) is very close to accredidation. It hoped to have the process completed before its recent weekend seminar, but still has a short way to go. Should be completed shortly.
October 9th, 2007 at 12:29 am
Team sold out of all the events, the numbers are right folks.They had to get two arenas,maybe a third. You have to love technology these days! Why are so many shocked about the Team numbers? Do you realize there are dozens of former diamond organizations that the majority have resigned(they would obviously quit also)that are now Team.
October 9th, 2007 at 12:54 am
TEAM_MEX,
I like your enthusiasm, but the link doesn’t work.
URLs cannot have “&” in the actual domain name.
Bridgett #195,
It seems that you are debating both sides of the issues!?!
It seems that, even in your reply, you bounce back and forth on which side you are against; i.e.
“It ISN’T about overpriced products. That IS a diversion tactic…” sounds like you are against TEAM; while “XS Energy Drink costs more than any other energy drink on the market.” sounds like you are against Quixtar.
Then you challenge Chris and Orrin’s ability to do a price comparison; just a note, Chris and Orrin are recognized benchmark professionals.
I do wish you the best, Bridgett, and hope you do not take this post as an attack; it just seemed a bit confusing as to who you dislike more
October 9th, 2007 at 2:05 am
Rico #197
Very well said.
Bridgett #195
The CA case is rooted in the Quixtar pricing issue. The claim of Quixtar being a product pyramid is based on the pricing being to high to retail (see 3.4% retail sales, failed Learning Lab, and admission of the Jay Factor). Most core-line products are priced so much higher than the market you have very little chance of making money just by retailing http://quixtarlostmycents.blogspot.com/. And so most people end up making money off building networks. In MLM business a key question is, what chance does somebody have of making money if they never build a network? If the answer is “very good” no problem, if the answer is “none at all” that’s really bad legally. The way Quixtar has priced it’s product make the answer: very little. Team leadership was notified that continuing to promote such a business could put them at legal risk. If the contract forces you to engage in illegal behavior it is not binding. Thus team felt they should be able to leave, with all the downlines that choose to go with them. What happened in the CA case is the judge decided that since both parties had decided to arbitrate before hand they should go do that. So if it’s not based on price, what is it based on?
Dannie #199
Tex doesn’t have a accurate idea of anything when it comes to TEAM.
To my-friend-from-college Tex and every other soldier in the fight against the tools scam,
This issue has nothing to do with the way Team ran it’s business, but the way Quixtar ran their’s. You are good at what you do, but your services are not needed here. The reason why everything you say about it sounds out there to so many people is because it is not relevant. In other words, you’re on the wrong blog! Just because it’s a lawsuit having to do with the Alticor does not make it a tool scam issue. The tool scam comes up but only tangentially.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:25 am
To NoMOCrow!:
It is EXACTLY because of practises that you are complaining about, that Woodward and his cronies were terminated.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:41 am
AMEN
October 9th, 2007 at 5:15 am
Freedom # 192
The tool business is very simple within the team! Unlike nearly all other tool businesses with Quixtar, there is no special cut from the top for the diamonds. Their business growth determines their pay! As for under Chris and Orrin, all the diamonds are their own entity! There is no need for an LOA…think about it, the money is team wide not just diamond wide.
October 9th, 2007 at 6:47 am
Chuck #201
Lucky for you! Thanks for the update. Good to know others are going throught the process, and close to accreditation. I would think there are many more that are too, but also many that are without a ’system’ due to the split with Team.
I am working hard to get to platinum and just going to have to go platinum and do it myself it seems. Because my diamond IS my platinum and we don’t even have a ’system’ to even apply for accreditation yet, since the split with Team. Uuugh!
Quixtar said platinums will be notified of the Jan 2 date to apply if their upline diamonds did not. Have they been notified already? Anyone know?
This seems to be such a HUGE issue and I am surprised at the lack of dialogue on it in our organization……how ’bout yours? Are your upline diamonds talking about this and keeping you all informed? I personaly want to be eligible for the QBi bonuses and trips!
Kathy
October 9th, 2007 at 7:36 am
Quixkicked #186,
Obviously you are so short sighted that you are blind to the fact that you were still Quixtar IBO’s that caused the illegal pyramid charge in the first place! You didn’t even care about trying to retail. You’re a joke. So please, in the future think before you attack!
Quixkicked #187,
Just more proof of your lack of intelligence! Spouting garbage with no substance. Facts are facts- Quixtar lead Orrin to believe if he didn’t like the changes they would work with him on leaving, but not breaking even more rules on his way out the door! Fact- They chose to enforce the rules and blow him out of the business! Your response to this I sure will only amount to your normal gibberish! This obviously didn’t have to be this way…..Quixtar tried to help the Team fix their multi-year rule violations and TEAM made a choice to refuse. As for case dismissed…it’s headed for arbitration because the judge didn’t want to hear the case…has to do with the merits of the case, because it was DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE!
October 9th, 2007 at 8:09 am
rdknyvr #188,
I don’t think accreditation does much to prevent the tool scam, whether at sign up or afterwards. It also doesn’t do much to fix the lack of retail. As you demonstrated, INA is much closer to TEAM than different, and you probably have no idea what is going on behind the scenes.
Kathy #190,
Thanks for the clarification.
ntks #191,
No response required, pure gibberish.
freedom #192,
The newer additions to TEAM (Don, Randy, Chuck, Billy, etc.) changed LOA, not LOS. In other words, Chris and Orrin didn’t make additional Quixtar money, just tool scam money.
NoMOCrow! #193,
The only Dateline show I am aware of came out a few years ago, 2004 I believe. You could make money from Quixtar if you weren’t being ripped off by the tool scammers. Drinking too much XS is not promoted by Quixtar, it probably was by your upline, right?
Jerad #194,
LOS is line of line of sponsorship (Quixtar), LOA is line of affiliation (tool scam system being used).
I haven’t dodged your question, you just don’t like the answer. Frankly, I don’t recall what the question was, and you’re not worth the effort for me to look it up. If you want to continue this line of discussion, go find my answer, post it, and ask a more specific question.
Bridgett #195,
Good points, Orrin has no concept of quality. He deserves shopping at Walmart.
G #196,
Does your “respectable business” include the tool scam? If so, it doesn’t matter what size it is, it is not “respectable”. I have criticized A/Q when appropriate, I don’t view them as perfect. The corp cares who follows and who breaks the rules. Which “old switcheroo” are you talking about?
Regarding your stupid question, “btw - Sponsor that PC yet? Or just “working on it”?”", you’re an idiot. Haven’t you read the rules, you have to sponsor a human being, not a machine.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:21 am
Rico #197,
Your main point was simply that Amway’s reputation is tarnished…not how or why, but that it is. —- So the reason doesn’t matter? How else would you fix a reputation, if you don’t figure out why?
Ros up there is running around saying that Amway doesn’t have a bad reputation?? She’s either not showing the plan or she is in serious denial. —- Many people have never heard of Amway, so it doesn’t have a bad reputation with them.
Now, on to the why…you cannot only point your finger at the tools. You have to consider the many variables that come into play. —- There are other variables, but the tool scam is by far the largest.
1. I will agree with you that the tool business has contributed to the bad rap. The tool part has to be done right. —- Agreed.
2. Of course, the product pricing. And the fact that I’ve seen several posts that say “they are working on the prices” only adds to the validity of this imposing problem. —- Have you seen what has already happened in the UK and even in the U.S. lately?
Now these two alone are enough to make a new IBO travel worn. My honest opinion is that high product pricing is still the shot in the gut for new IBO’s. I DREADED shopping meetings when the prices raised their ugly heads and said, “What did you expect, this isn’t Wal-Mart!” Whereas the tool prices were much more palatable to the new, eager-to-learn IBO. —- Your shopping meetings concentrated on the wrong products and lacked education. The tools are a ripoff, because they create the vast majority of the profit, and the upline lies about this fact.
Obviously, the over-the-top IBO that jumped out of bushes and called all their friends nine-thousand times to hear about a business…that will do a little tarnishing. —- That will always be a factor, but it can be minimized.
You know, Southwest Airlines did a commercial ripping Amway. It showed a nice looking couple who had just been invited over for dinner from an old friend. The hosts said, “Before we get started with dinner, we have a SUPER business opportunity we’d like to share with you…” Wife brings over white board that says, “BE YOUR OWN BOSS!!” Then pan back to husband who simply states, “Cleaning products!” Cut to unsuspecting dinner guests who stood aghast at the taboo invitation. Voice Over- “Want to get away?? Now you can!” —- Okay. That’s it. I quit. Someone poked fun of me, now I can’t go on…. GROW UP! You should bring that commercial into your presentation and make fun of yourself, it would show the prospect you’re aware of the commercial and then show them the business behind the satirical commercial.
My point is, you must direct most of your energy on the tools being the single most reason Amway’s reputation is tarnished. I know that that defense serves the truth. You are very rehearsed in the tool scam rhetoric. There are other very obvious and very serious reasons that the public will not just brush off the negative perception that single word invites, but they pale in comparison to the tool scam. The key factor is, “REALITY”. It does matter if Amway becomes the crown jewel of business models. The reality would far outweigh the perception no matter how much you really really want it to be different. Facts change perception. Change the facts, change the perception.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:28 am
dannie #199,
Maybe I will show up & see if you’re lying. What makes me think I have any ( ACCURATE ) idea of how many people are in Team? —- Try Orrin’s lawsuit. Of course, he lies, so why trust the lawsuit, good point.
Who gave you the membership roster? —- I don’t need a roster to read the total IBO’s he claims in his lawsuit.
What would be the point in lying about anything that could so easily be verified? —- Same point as lying about the tool scam, it creates excitement and put dollars in his pocket.
I hope it’s full. I want as many people as possible to show up, see nothing is really going on, and leave, never to return to another Orrinite meeting.
Mary Ann #200,
Good, you deserve each other.
October 9th, 2007 at 10:20 am
Jared - ok now i lied b/c i said i would not blog post anymore.
Good Question Jared! I am not a Quixtar ibo right now (have been in the past) but to go to a function, i have to be part of Line of Affiliation, must be a member of the ibo team. So i am.
Chuck, Network 21 is IBOFB, i don’t even know about Network 21.
Yes i just saw the Transformation Video at mlmfacts.net site - it did say that the new QBI $60mill requires individual or LOA team accredidation.
I do think that BWW, LTD, WWDB, etc… are all about to receive accreditation. They just have to make a few minor tweaks in the next couple months…. they are all in communication with Quixtar, it just takes a little time b/c you want smooth transitions. One of the things is that TOOL prices are going down a little bit. (they don’t cost much now, $6-8 for a cd compared to Ziglar/Robbins/motivationspeakers that sell for $10-15 per cd) but they are still going down….
Quixtars Business Transformations is going to make the integrity and fairness of their business miles beyond other companies. As clean as a babies *ss
October 9th, 2007 at 10:22 am
Quixkicked #186
I am neither shortsighted nor blind. You were choosing to continue promoting a business while at the same time attacking that business’ legality in court. If that statement is not correct, please feel free to correct me. If it is correct, how do you do that ethically?
Arguing that you were told to continue building to avoid legal damages against TEAM may be the convenient legal response, but it surely is not an ethical one. Claiming that you hoped that the two sides would work things out? Come on. One side is in court claiming the other is an illegal business. There clearly will not be an amicable solution to this. If TEAM wins, Quixtar is deemed illegal. If Quixtar wins, non-complying IBO’s will be kicked out and have to wait until the non-compete clauses run out. Either way, the people you are promoting the business to lose. I highly doubt any of that information was being conveyed to those people you were trying to sponsor. If they had signed up and then found out all of this information, I also doubt that those people would think very highly of such misleading tactics.
You did ask about what you were supposed to do, shut down? Ethically yes, you should have. Unless you believe in Quixtar and were promoting the Quixtar business only (not TEAM), the ethical approach would be to wait until the Court proceedings are resolved. Is that a tough choice? Of course it is, but it is the only ethical choice that TEAM leaders have left you with.
My apologies if you consider this an attack. It is simply my view of the business practices of TEAM as expressed in your post. As someone who is viewing this with interest but from the outside, I find it incredulous that TEAM continues to operate (and according to you encourages all TEAM members to operate)in what I see as a misleading and unethical manner.
October 9th, 2007 at 10:23 am
Jared - ok now i lied b/c i said i would not blog post anymore.
Good Question Jared! I am not a Quixtar ibo right now (have been in the past) but to go to a function, i have to be part of Line of Affiliation, must be a member of the ibo team. So i am.
I understand you did not intentially misrepresent me - my situation is a little unique - my story about myself is honest.
Chuck, Network 21 is IBOFB, i don’t even know about Network 21.
Yes i just saw the Transformation Video at mlmfacts.net site - it did say that the new QBI $60mill requires individual or LOA team accredidation.
I do think that BWW, LTD, WWDB, etc… are all about to receive accreditation. They just have to make a few minor tweaks in the next couple months…. they are all in communication with Quixtar, it just takes a little time b/c you want smooth transitions. One of the things is that TOOL prices are going down a little bit. (they don’t cost much now, $6-8 for a cd compared to Ziglar/Robbins/motivationspeakers that sell for $10-15 per cd) but they are still going down….
Quixtars Business Transformations is going to make the integrity and fairness of their business miles beyond other companies. As clean as a babies *ss
October 9th, 2007 at 11:34 am
#56 BC Says
Your comments are truly laughable! Your PV is up? How? YOU DON’T SELL ANY PRODUCTS!!! What PV are you talking about? I can tell you that my PV in August was over 7500 and at the end of Sept. was 400. Oh, and guess what I was a part of the legacy group before the “merger” as well. So I say NICE TRY!!! You are full of lies.
October 9th, 2007 at 11:50 am
Tex,
As I understand things, Warner Books is no longer a part of the Time-Warner company and part of the agreement in selling Warner Books was they had to rename themselves by 2011 so people did not think they were still affiliated with the Time-Warner company. So, they changed their name to Grand Central Publishing. GCP has a division that used to be called Warner Business Books and they renamed to Business Plus, again so they and GCP were not confused with the Time Warner Book Group.
Apparently Orrin and Chris and their “leaders” confused them with the Time Warner Book Group.
October 9th, 2007 at 11:59 am
Thank you, rdknyvr, for answering my question about INA. I wish you much success in building your business.
Tex, you have still avoided the question asked by Jerad and myself. I have indeed reread your post. All it said was: Orrin supposedly was paid by Team INA to use those slogans. Whether or not he did is another issue. Your next point was: that it is not about “cutesy sayings”, but about HOW we build the business.
And how we build the business is simply: 10 IBO’s in the first leg w/ 4 on the system, 5 in the second leg with 2 on system. Repeat. AND EVERY NEW IBO WHO SIGNS UP SIGNS A DOCUMENT STATING THEY ARE AWARE WHO THEIR SPONSOR IS. Plain and simple. Those who are not interested in the business become customers or we wish them a good day. Now we do this by showing 15 plans a month like every organization teaches. Team calls this PowerPlayer. Before Legacy joined with Team, we called it Quicksilver. Either way, Q was good with it. So tell me, Tex, how is this stacking?
Regardless of your answer, I am happy to wait the 6 months and remain on the Team. I will not bash the Corporation, since I have spent the last 2 years vigorously defending it. But I wish the best of luck to you, Tex, building your Amway business.
October 9th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
#70 Tex
“Being a Christian doesn’t require us to be a doormat or not call a spade a spade”
Exactly, that’s why we stand for what is right. Do unto others as you would want done to you. Apparently you love being insulted by people who don’t know you, that’s all you’ve been doing to people here. You are attempting to make these people on this blog that you’ve never met before, your doormat.
Difference in opinion doesn’t grant you the right to refer to a veteran’s experience and contribution to this country so lightly or to call mockery of someone who has their own opinion. Don’t be ignorant, open your mind and respect others. No one deserves to be attacked like you’ve been doing. If you treat people like that in real life, I understand why you spend so much time on here.
October 9th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Ron A #216, I meant to reference the letter from Ron Simmons to Gary Vanderveen, not Jim Payne. My error. And I understand that at least one INA Diamond did resign and go to Team — EDCs Roger and Laura Sitcler, but I don’t know for sure if three Diamonds in his group went with him, although you would likely know. Thanks for the best wishes, and same to you for a great day.
October 9th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
[Moderator, I submitted this message, but the computer behaved weird, so I don’t know if you saw it.]
TEAM_MEX #198,
I heard you’re ripping off your group with tools, the only difference is they have Spanish instead of English on them.
dannie #199,
Maybe I will show up & see if you’re lying. What makes me think I have any ( ACCURATE ) idea of how many people are in Team? —- Try Orrin’s lawsuit. Of course, he lies, so why trust the lawsuit, good point.
Who gave you the membership roster? —- I don’t need a roster to read the total IBO’s he claims in his lawsuit.
What would be the point in lying about anything that could so easily be verified? —- Same point as lying about the tool scam, it creates excitement and put dollars in his pocket.
I hope it’s full. I want as many people as possible to show up, see nothing is really going on, and leave, never to return to another Orrinite meeting.
Mary Ann #200,
Good, you deserve each other.
October 9th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
commited #202,
Your explanation makes more sense. I wouldn’t be surprised if half of the remaining IBOAI Board shows up, there hasn’t much coming out of the IBOAI blog for a long time. Is everyone going to wear the plastic glasses, with the big nose and mustache, so they won’t be recognized by the IBO and Q spies?
amazed #203,
I think the link was a joke, just not a very good one.
Bridgett is consistent, read my message #210.
Then you challenge Chris and Orrin’s ability to do a price comparison; just a note, Chris and Orrin are recognized benchmark professionals. —- That’s what makes this so hilarious. Of course, they were “benchmark professionals” for GM, and we all know how good GM has done the past couple of decades.
Let me be clear, I dislike you the most.
AEM #204,
Correction, Orrin TRIED to make the issue Quixtar pricing, we all know it is tool pricing, otherwise known as the tool scam.
Tex doesn’t have a accurate idea of anything when it comes to TEAM. —- I know what I heard and saw, reported it, and now TEAM is gone. You figure it out.
You’re not my friend, let alone my-friend-from-college.
This issue has everything to do with the way Team ran it’s business, and to a lesser extent the way Quixtar still runs their’s. You are good at what you do, but your services are not needed here. The reason why everything you say about it sounds out there to so many people is because it is not relevant. In other words, you’re on the wrong blog! Because it’s a lawsuit having to do with the Alticor makes it a tool scam issue. The tool scam comes up because that’s where most of the profit is.
October 9th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Tex #211
“The tools are a ripoff, because they create the vast majority of the profit, and the upline lies about this fact.”
I can’t believe you can defend the pricing of the products and then in the same breath call the tools a ripoff. The fact that the tools create any sort of profit is something that can’t be said of the products…except for those with the right last name.
It’s funny that Amway acts like the jealous girlfriend that wants so badly to be THE opportunity, and hates that there is tool profit that can very easily surpass them. What amazes me is that they don’t want the newer IBO to have access to tool money. Because then the IBO realizes this girlfriend of his could do just a little better, or would that be the other way around?
And about the Southwest commercial…you misunderstood the reason I even mentioned it. I was in the middle of talking about the perception of mainstream and why Amway has a bad reputation. And you have to admit the “Dinner Invite-Captive Audience” was perfected by Amway distributors. I know, I know, things will be different this time around. But will that even matter to those who already possess that perception?
October 9th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
Well Tex, as Ron has stated you failed to answer why TEAM INA can work the very same tactics TEAM was working.
You are weak.
rdknyvr, While you did put in false accusations regarding TEAM, you have to realize that TEAM INA is doing EXACTLY what we were doing. Building legal teams using team and turbo levels. The only real difference is unlike you, I have never ever ever even once witnessed a new IBO get sponsored in depth without meeting his upline sponsor.
So I guess in order to build using TEAM approach we have to break the rules. Otherwise we’ll get accused of breaking the rules. I guess that’s INA’s secret.
Hmmmmm….
JT#212,
So you are associated with a Q system but aren’t in Q? You love Q and brag it up at every post yet you haven’t joined?
I ain’t buyin’ it. When you decide to reveal who you really are and what your real intentions are maybe I’ll be able to take you a little more seriously.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
Quixkicked #207,
You are describing how the other tool systems USED to pay out. They now operate very much like TEAM.
Kathy #208,
Deafening silence from our upline.
jthompson #213,
I think the groups you mentioned have more than “a few minor tweaks” to make. You don’t buy several CD’s every week from Ziglar/Robbins/motivation speakers, so the tool prices need to come WAY down.
If “Quixtars Business Transformations is going to make the integrity and fairness of their business miles beyond other companies. As clean as a babies *ss”, they have a lot more work to do, we’re not even close, yet.
BK #214,
Shame on you. Using TEAM and ethical in the same sentence.
Renshi #216,
Thanks, I saw an announcement of what you said dated in March. But let’s not make the same mistake and confuse the facts with something coming from TEAM.
Ron A #217,
You may have described how YOU did things, but the facts are many others did not. That was my point. Also, you may be waiting for more than 6 months, because of what Orrin did with the “illegal pyramid” lawsuit.
nothing #218,
A difference in opinion is not the issue. The issue is refusal to address the facts.
Also, I did NOT “refer to a veteran’s experience and contribution to this country so lightly or to call mockery of someone who has their own opinion.” Read the post, carefully.
Don’t be ignorant, open your mind and respect the facts. Anyone who supports Orrin and his “illegal pyramid” lawsuit deserves to be attacked like I’ve been doing.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Tex,
fact /fækt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fakt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
o·pin·ion /əˈpɪnyən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-pin-yuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
It seems that you are confusing the two words again, so I thought I would help you out. Thank you for your opinions.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Miss Utah:
Your experience is mirrored by that of TEAM, shall I say “corporate”. (I.e. TEAM excluding Woodward, and the other IBO’s involved in the California court case.)
Because the courtcase in Texas, was about TEAM complaining that their business has been drastically reduced by the actions taken by Q, in the wake of the court case involving “ex”-TEAM members, who are now also ex-IBOs.
The number of 69% was mentioned I believe. In the 4 weeks since August, 9th.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
Tex # 102
“I am committed to results, the Orrinites have shown they are committed to excuses.”
I don’t think leaving a company that is paying millions to our leaders and have changed their policies a way we don’t approve of is called excuses. I think that is taking actions to fix a problem (such as you being a part of the end of the tool scam).
October 9th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Tex,
You seem to want to lay all blame on tool companies. In your opinion, is Amway guilty of anything? Didn’t they know about the tool company situation for a couple of decades? They didn’t do anything about it. Who cares about the “Directly Speaking” fiasco. The bottom line is that they didn’t finish what they started once they realized how much money they’d lose because they knew people couldn’t retail their products. They needed the systems to promote internal consumption, or else their business would suffer. What do you think about this article? http://barristerquixtarlawsuit.typepad.com/quixtar_lawsuit/2007/09/its-possible.html
As I gather, it says that Quixtar has been gouging distributors for years and selling the idea that “our stuff is high quality, that’s why it’s expensive…” Clearly, they’ve always been able to lower the prices.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
Getting back to the purpose of this blog, what will take place next now that the California case has been dismissed? Is TEAM, or at least the dismissed IBO’s, obligated to go through Quixtar’s arbitration process if they are not prepared to live up to the terms of their signed contract?
October 9th, 2007 at 3:01 pm
#255 Tex
Being offensive is an issue but, if the facts are so important, like everyone have asked many times over, show us the facts. I want the hard financial numbers, the price of the cd’s, how much Orrin makes off the tools, anything you have that could support your continuous rant of tool scams.
And talking about a war where someone fought and alluding it to this small rediculous “corporate” problem is offensive. People fighting for everyone’s freedom should not be used as mockery of anyone. And you did use it as mockery when you used Team leaders as the people Mick wouldn’t fight alongside an having his head on a stick. Respect the people who fought for you to even have the rights to be free.
Please, express your opinion with respect for people, no one came here to be harassed and talk down to. Please answer with facts or simple constructed opinions that aren’t offensive to people.
October 9th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Rico #223,
I don’t defend the pricing. Some of it is good, some of it isn’t. But at least it is on the top of the table, not under the table like the tool scam money is. Many more IBO’s would be profitable if it weren’t for the tool scam, AND we would have the moral authority to demand lower Q prices, or simply don’t buy the expensive ones, and Q would be forced to lower prices or drop those products.
It’s funny that TEAM acts like the jealous girlfriend that wants so badly to be THE opportunity, and hates that there is Q profit shown in the plan that should easily surpass them. What amazes me is that they don’t want the newer IBO to have access to Q money, because the overpriced tools suck it up. Because then the IBO realizes this girlfriend of his could do just a little better, or would that be the other way around?
I know exactly what you were getting at. I have never done anything close to the Southwest commercial, but one of my brothers was approached in this manner, and because of this experience he has never seen the plan from me.
Jerad #224,
Theory versus reality. Two different things.
You are wrong.
whatever #226,
Trouble is, I am the one using facts, you refuse to use them.
nothing #228,
No problem. If you don’t approve, and can’t handle the changes, just leave. Including following the rules on the way out.
Doug #229,
I have NEVER layed “…all blame on tool companies.”
In your opinion, is Amway guilty of anything? —– Yes.
Didn’t they know about the tool company situation for a couple of decades? Yes.
They didn’t do anything about it. —- True.
Who cares about the “Directly Speaking” fiasco. —- I do, it proves the corporation has been aware of the problem for decades.
The bottom line is that they didn’t finish what they started once they realized how much money they’d lose because they knew people couldn’t retail their products. —- I think at that time, they had a fair amount of retail, but didn’t want to lose product volume, so they backed down.
They needed the systems to promote internal consumption, or else their business would suffer. —- See above. I believe the lack of retail is more of a problem than it was in 1983.
What do you think about this article? http://barristerquixtarlawsuit.typepad.com/quixtar_lawsuit/2007/09/its-possible.html
As I gather, it says that Quixtar has been gouging distributors for years and selling the idea that “our stuff is high quality, that’s why it’s expensive…” Clearly, they’ve always been able to lower the prices. —- That is true for some of the products, not for others. However, the tool scam is a MUCH larger issue, as I have said many times.
October 9th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
BK #230,
My understanding is they WILL go through arbitration, and be punished for the damage they have already caused, regardless of how sorry they are for their actions now.
nothing #231,
It’s not just the CD’s, but the full production costs of the CD’s are about $1. Someone who worked for a company that produces CD’s told me that, and you used to be able to price tapes/CD’s on Britt’s site, until someone over there wised up.
They brought up “a war where someone fought and alluding it to this small rediculous “corporate” problem”, so be offended at them, not me.
People fighting for everyone’s freedom should not be used as mockery of anyone, and I didn’t do that. You made that mental leap, not me.
When I “used Team leaders as the people Mick wouldn’t fight alongside an having his head on a stick.”, that was my opinion of Orrin and Co., not Mick.
I do respect the people who fought for me to even have the rights to be free. I was one of them too, and I served to protect the Constitution, including the First Amendment, which applies to everyone, including me. You seem to forget that. However, it doesn’t matter if I served, it is a right of everyone, not just those who served.
Now that the Orrinites are going down in flames, you are getting sensitive. I’ll talk how I want to with Orrin and his Orrinites who filed a federal lawsuit against Quixtar being an illegal pyramid. Ever hear of righteous indignation? Look it up, even Jesus used it. I respect those who deserve and earn respect. If I treated others in this manner, it would be an insult to those I do respect.
October 9th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE
TEAM members you need to buy more (cds, books and don’t forget the seminars and opens) to help Orrin Woodward to pay the bill of alticor
lawyers.
October 9th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
#203 Amazed,
Read my #195 comment again. Sometimes it helps to read out loud and slowly.
My #195 comment had two points:
1) The concept of “overpriced” is relative. If someone finds value in a product, and are willing to pay that price tag assigned to it, then it’s not overpriced to them.
There are other factors besides what Wal-Mart is charging (quality, convenience, customer service, 180-day 100% money-back guarantee policy) that determine the price of a Quixtar product.
2) Orrin’s lawsuit doesn’t hold water based on pricing issues if he is SOLEY LOOKING AT PRICE when the two products he points to as examples as being priced like Wal-Mart are XS Energy Drink and bars. Because, you can get crappy energy drinks and crappy bars from crappy stores with crappy customer service and crappy return policies for less than what Quixtar charges.
By the way, I am not about “being against” anyone. That serves no purpose.
October 9th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
224 Jared
“JT#212,
So you are associated with a Q system but aren’t in Q? You love Q and brag it up at every post yet you haven’t joined?
I ain’t buyin’ it. When you decide to reveal who you really are and what your real intentions are maybe I’ll be able to take you a little more seriously.”
Hey man - if knew me, you know i am very transparent, sometimes too honest about myself. I think its a Saguine trait.
Here is your answer is my own words as to why i honor quixtar ibos that i know and the opportunity, yet do not participate now:
“Garden of Eden, Creation, Fellowship, Victory, etc….everything was great. Then there was a big problem that led to lots of trouble in humankind. Then a man was sent to the earth to fix stuff. He did the job, now he left his followers with the task to tell others the good news how the disaster has been fixed & they can be in victory/peace again. Now this guy & his followers have one purpose - to share the good news so others can be back in fellowship with their creator. Now there are many many TEAMs of reconcilation. I respect them all- some are more ministry, others business, politics, etc… all ways of influencing people.
It just so happens that the people that shared the good news with me were on a Quixtar Business team - it changed my life initially and the biggest changes are coming now in my life. I am forever grateful to these guys. I am no longer one of their active teamates but nevertheless support their efforts still.”
I believe that I can tell others the good news personally, not only indirectly through a business team.
There is a tremendous book i just read called “Gods Big Picture” by Ladonna Osborn - you can google search it.
The Quixtar business team and my friends who build a quixtar business - they are NOT perfect. But i prefer to talk about the GOOD things they are doing.
Leaders like Rich Devos, Jay Van Andel, Bill Britt, Dexter Yager, Larry Winters, Kanti Gala, Alan leininger, Bill Hawkins, Greg Duncan, and many others…. they are NOT perfect people… BUT they are Leaders. I have met and known multiple Leaders in Amway - and it they ROCK! They have got me to THINK, to read, to grow, to act and challenge myself to make a difference. I honor their achievements. They have given hope to a lot of people and have tried their hardest to live their lives in congruence to what they speak.
Plus - i used to go ot personal developement seminars with Tony Robbins that cost $5000 for the week. It was great b/c of the association with business people, achievers, etc…
a seminar with my Quixtar LOA friends is about $100 plus travel - and the teachings better reflect my personal life philosophy than a Covey/Robbins seminar for thousands.
Quixtar/Amway has already transformed themselves. I was at the last function and i was amazed! Watch the Transformation Video that is on www.mlmfacts.net - listen to Devos/VanAndel.
I really do believe that if IBOs and Quixtar stay united like they are now - that the Corporation will double sales in the next 5 years at the MINIMUM. 12 billion dollars -
I think its cool that you can build a network of friends - 25 singles/couples/familys during the next 12 months - and help them to build a business of retailing/using products and services and show them how to recruit others….. and at the end of those 12 months - you will make $73k per year EXTRA to your full-time job, plus you can make another $15k+ by educating people though sales of books and cds of successful people.
Now I am out of here - would be glad to get to know you jthompsonblogging@gmail.com
October 9th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Jerad #224, re-read my post to Ron A. on INA. I made it pretty clear that INA was not perfect and has had to make adjustments. And INA was not teaching “exactly” like Team. If you read my reply to Ron, you’ll see where the rest of us, at least in my Diamond’s group, and others that I know of, were modifying aspects of what we understood the Team approach to be and doing it in a way that didn’t cross the rules. The Diamond who was doing it “exactly like Team” has in fact left INA to be with Team full time. He’s a nice guy, I respect him — had a great conversation with him and his wife back in February — but would never follow him. And remember too, what Team was teaching was in many respects a hybrid of other teachings including Casey Combden’s, along with some excellent innovations (yes, I give Orrin and Chris credit for the good they did along the way). Tex wouldn’t know how to answer you on the technical aspects of INA as he is not in our organization.
This is really all getting to the point where it doesn’t matter, in a sense. This will end up in arbitration just like a divorce, with the prenuptial/noncomplete/arbitration agreements that were knowingly and willingly signed in advance by the lawsuit complaintants worked out in front of an arbitrator. And eventually everyone will go off to build a business where they think it’s best to pursue their dreams.
In closing, check out this link for a first hand account by someone who was at a lot of TEAM functions (see entry by “bc2047″) and still feels strong personal loyalty to their upline who did go with TEAM, although bc2047 has chosen to stay with Quixtar. The rest of the entries are also informative, including the exchanges with “George’s Girl”.
http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/index.php/component/option,com_fireboard/func,view/id,8011/catid,27/
Blessings for a great day
October 9th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Tex 189:
The deal was signed with Time-Warner. Warner Books was sold to another publisher who is allowed to use the Warner Books name until 2011. The deal changed hands with the new company.
Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Books for more information. A simple google search got me there.
October 9th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
2 months down only 4 to go
October 9th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
nothing 231- Tex will never answer a direct question. He is being paid by Quixtar and they will not allow him to quote figures. That is part of his contract. Quixtar has paid him ‘good money’ to fill up the blog sites with hate and misinformation. If you read all his comments you will see that what I say is true.
Tex- Prove me wrong. Tell me what the profit margins are on tools. Tell me how much tools cost. Or can’t you do that? Here’s your 31 pieces of silver.
October 9th, 2007 at 6:12 pm
wow - Tex has managed to bait all of you. Just accept that he only ever argues one single point, and he thinks no one else knows about it, tools. He argues insensibly, repetitively and is long winded. quixtarblog (not affiliated with quixtar) has banned him and I’m surprised this site hasn’t as well - just leave him be to mumble to himself. There is most certainly NOT 231 posts worth of material worth reading here.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
To all (once again)
I suggest you take a step back…try to regain some perspective. OPEN YOUR EYES PEOPLE!
To TEAM IBOS
Guys this is corporate America. Everything they told you they weren’t… this is it. Lawsuits, buzz words, people in upper management making decisions on whats best for them while you are told “Business as usual people… Business as usual.” Why do you think they booked the Freedom Center in Louisville for the National Leadership Convention back in June? Not for its name…its tiny…it holds 19,000 people, I know, I’ve been there. Come on we had close to 40,000 in the Edward Jones Dome in March and I am not sure about the numbers for summer but they were probably higher. THEY KNEW THIS WAS ON THE HORIZON, but they were not forthcoming about it. “Business as usual people…Business as usual.”…while you send me double system orders for the next month and a half. “Oops must have been a glitch in the computer” (I’m not bitter guys, really I’m not…No…really I’m not…ok fine just a little, but who can blame me, my retirement party was set for August 31st so my group was pretty big. Was is the key word there.)
Anyway so you go out and hire a sub par legal team and tell them to put together a case that has no chance in hades to win I mean come on… you go after pyramid law? Orrin publicly stated hundreds of times that it wasn’t a pyramid. Ummm, that makes sense. If they wanted out of a contract, specifically a non compete agreement, you go after contract law. Everyone knows that non competes rarely hold up in court, especially Q’s non compete… its laughable not to mention completely bogus,(by the way, its the arbitration that they get you with, that does hold up in court and so then you cant fight the non compete because you are forced to arbitrate which is completely and 100% biased to Q) yet the lawsuit never mentions anything to do with contract law or non competes. No wonder Q’s legal team is having a hay day with this. TEAM wasn’t ever trying to win the lawsuits, they were trying to stall till they could actually put together some sort of commerce to make it look like they could compete with Q and not alienate TEAM IBOs.
Well thats all for now… don’t you Q loyalists think you are off scott free this time though. Part two is coming up soon for you guys and its gonna be good. Stay tuned for more perspective…You are going to like what I have in store for you.
October 9th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
pepe #234,
Good idea. I suggest Orrin do the following, effective immediately: Opens will be held nightly, Seminars conducted weekly, and major functions monthly. Buy at least every book and CD on the list, and if you lose any single item, buy the full set, in order to be 100% loyal.
Jester311 #238,
Thanks, I already found the information on a google search.
Chris #239,
Or so you think, but Orrin and Co. haven’t been to arbitration yet.
SPARTAN #240,
See #233, I already answered the question directly. Beth Dornan, a Quixtar employee, on another blog several months ago, made the statement the tool profits are being exagerrated. When challenged, she admitted Quixtar didn’t know how much was being made on tools. Therefore, she never stated how much was being made, nor how much was allegedly being made, because she didn’t know. Can you prove I’m being paid by Quixtar? You’re clueless.
Tell me what the profit margins are on tools. Tell me how much tools cost. Or can’t you do that? —- I already listed the tool prices, and provided an answer to the question asked, regarding the CD costs to produce. Why don’t you ask your buddy Orrin to post? He’s the one with all the “integrity” and “leadership”. Your “leader” is MIA, that’s why you can’t answer. Because he’s just like Ron Hale and the rest of the lying cowardly “kingpins”. You had TEAM Orrinites running all over this site, claiming much more was being made on tools than Quixtar, even at the Platinum level. Go and read it for yourself, you bunch of dirty money-changing false profits (Pharisees/Sadducees, note the brilliant play on words. I’ve been saving that one, I have others as well).
Here’s your 31 pieces of silver. —- No thanks, keep it, it’s all yours, you “earned” it, SPARTAN (aka Judas).
quixfreak #241,
wow - I haven’t baited anyone, all I have done is shown how this business has been damaged by the largest source of profit, which is also been kept secret for decades, the tool scam.
If everyone knows about the tool scam, then have Orrin and all the other lying cowardly “kingpins”, post their numbers here. Have them tell their numbers when they show prospects the plan.
Several other blogs have banned me, some of them multiple times, including qblog, the IBOAI blog, ibofb’s blog, etc., all because they can’t accept and/or understand the main reason this business has a negative reputation, the tool scam.
You’re right, there aren’t 231 messages worth of posts here, because many of them are posted by Orrinites and other “kingpin” supporters.
October 9th, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Tex,
You sound like a hypocrit.
On one hand you argue that product pricing and corporate profit margin isn’t the real issue because those using the products believe the “quality” is worth the prices paid.
On the other hand you argue that the profit margin shared by those in the TEAM system profit sharing plan is the real issue. Yet you ignore the fact that those spending money on the TEAM system state repeatedly that the benefit is well worth the cost.
Why don’t you just keep buying your $35 roll of toilet paper and let me buy my $6 CDs.
October 9th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
Alright guys,
My resignation has been accepted. I am no longer part of Q and as such will no longer be posting on your blog.
JT, Tex, I wish you well. I don’t, however, believe that either of you were completely honest about who you were or why you would post so often on a blog. But I may be wrong.
I just hope that the truth is one day revealed. As it is I am now going to continue my education and training as I wait for TEAM’s next adventure.
Maybe we’ll meet one day on the beaches of the world.
October 9th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
NoMOCrow#242,
Bravo.
whatever #244,
You sound like a hypocrit. —- You look like you can’t spell hypocrite.
On one hand you argue that product pricing and corporate profit margin isn’t the real issue because those using the products believe the “quality” is worth the prices paid. —- For some products, yes. I said it was an issue, but a relatively small issue compared to the tool scam.
On the other hand you argue that the profit margin shared by those in the TEAM system profit sharing plan is the real issue. —- That’s where most of the profit comes from, it is directed to be kept secret, and causes massive net losses for most IBO’s. Sounds pretty major to me.
Yet you ignore the fact that those spending money on the TEAM system state repeatedly that the benefit is well worth the cost. —- That’s because the many others who have quit don’t post. They walked away. They’re gone.
Why don’t you just keep buying your $35 roll of toilet paper and let me buy my $6 CDs. —- I don’t buy the Q toilet paper, and won’t allow the many others who don’t know what a scam the $6 CD’s (and other tools) are, continued to be scammed.
October 9th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
Jerad #245, best wishes to you too. There is more to life out there beyond this or any other business.
October 9th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
It’s funny, about two years ago when I was frustrated with my upline, I took a look at another business with some friends…..Market America. At the time, even as frustrated with what I perceived was Quixtar (but really my upline leaders who’s thought’s were “plug them into the system and let the system train them” (translation: get people to spend a bunch of money without making any until they figure it out themselves)) it only took sitting through two meetings to realize what a joke it was.
They make it sound like a good deal until you do your own research. The requirements were you HAD TO buy a core line product (ask them who outside their own people tested it, how many patents, etc.???). you also HAVE TO buy from partner stores (but it can be Wal Mart (the company Orrin wants to beat) or Starbucks (the company Orrin says is a rip off compared to XS)). Oh, and don’t forget about the REQUIRED selling also.
Why would I bring this up, because “team” people have said that’s where they are going. That would be a perfect fit for the team based on the information I have received. I’ve been told the team is intentionally not telling people about the CD’s and books until conferences. Go to market america’s website and you will see they intentionally won’t give you any information about what the requirements are to build the business.
If this is fact, I hope everyone enjoys their over $60 a month “vitamin.” (Isotonix) and the other expenses they are not telling you about. Enjoy the HUGE registration fee. Enjoy all the “suprise” costs they are not disclosing. But then again, when the only reason Orrin needs something else is to cover for his “leadership development” business, who cares about disclosing this information to their downlines?
October 9th, 2007 at 11:24 pm
Jerad #245,
You just made my day.
You were wrong.
Hopefully TEAM’s next adventure won’t be another tool scam, but I think I’m wrong on that point.
Maybe, maybe not.
October 9th, 2007 at 11:44 pm
Look…the TEAM tool profit (which is SHARED by the way)is not kept secret…or atleast the TEAM doesn’t wish to keep it a secret. The TEAM has tried many ways (ie.website, first night book)to explain the tool profits, and QUIXTAR refused to allow it. THEY - QUIXTAR made the TEAM remove the explanation from the website. THEY - QUIXTAR made them reprint the first night books minus the tool profit explanation. THEY - QUIXTAR - are the ones that don’t want that info out there. In fact, at the TEAM’s last Go Diamond meeting in Atlanta, average tool incomes based on business strengths were put up on the overhead projection screens for the whole room (THOUSANDS of people)to see. Facts are that tools are NECESSARY to build “B” type businesses. This is America…profit to business owners is still acceptable here…I think…
October 9th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
freedom #248,
Good post.
Qreilly #250,
Then why won’t Ron Simmons or Chuck Goetschel answer my tool profit questions?
Tell us what was on the screen in Atlanta.
October 10th, 2007 at 12:08 am
#248 freedom,
You are guessing at best, slander/liable at worst. I have not heard any mention of that MLM at any team function or meeting. I did see someone trolling for business from that group post on one of the public websites. There is no new MLM for team. I think that was made pretty clear by Team.
October 10th, 2007 at 12:49 am
Ok, so here is part II, sorry its so long, but its worth it!
TO Q/A IBOS OR LOYALISTs, or whoever the heck is supporting Q/A on this blog (you all aren’t IBOs, you think we don’t know that)
Ok, time for your dose of perspective in all this mess. Where is Q/A heading with all of this, well lets take a passage from scripture and I think it may explain a lot (slash) open some eyes. Here is a little bit of Matthew for you.
“And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.”
Hmm, what meaneth he by that? Well…lets take a look at the corporate America/Alticor translation of this scripture!
If you want to be profitable and some one is stopping you from being profitable because of their offensive behavior you must cut them off or they will drag you down to the depths of bankruptcy.
Ok ok, I know what you are thinking TEAM guys I’m not biased here let me explain. Lets define first who is offensive to the corporation? Is it Orrin Woodward? No, not really, not up until this whole fiasco. Is it Hillary Clinton? That’s it, its all Hillary’s fault! Oops sorry got side tracked I thought I was on a different blog.
Really guys and gals… ITS US! The North American/European IBOs, we are the problem, we are the nations with the most money and yet the markets with the most stagnated growth for the company. Wake up and smell the LOC…or stop smelling the LOC, I think it is impairing your judgment. Amway was doing much better in the early 80’s in North America than it is doing now and it is all our fault! Yes thats right, its the IBOs fault! We “misrepresent the amazing opportunity this is.” No really, we give the corporation a bad name. We misrepresent this thing, and all of you who are saying, (insert uppity tone of voice here, George) “Well IIIIII dont and Myyyyyy upline doesn’t condone that type of behavior,” you are lying to yourselves. We do not represent it as a sales job, we represent it as a business, but it is a sales job and we STP we say it as a business with a proven system that if you just do what your upline says, you will be successful. You cannot represent this thing as it truly is because there are so many MLMs out there now and the corporation has such a bad name. How many of you have sponsored someone from giving them a copy of the IBO Compensation Plan and telling them oh, by the way only 1 out of 100,000 people will ever make it to a significant level(lets say emerald) where they will make enough money to “achieve their dreams”. No… you all said “You can do it! I will help you!” and why not, they could right…well the truth of it is statistically speaking the odds are not in favor of it and the corporation knows it, you know it and I know it, however you try to twist the numbers. The odds are in favor of the newest person failing, (all you TEAMers know that, that is one of Orrin’s truths of networking, he just doesn’t say it quite so bluntly) but when that person gets wind that they have been duped and stops buying the stuff because they realize they couldn’t do it and then they realize you ripped them off with over priced products and over priced training aids, (all your groups have them, I don’t care what you say, I’ve been in 3 different groups in my lifetime and every organization had overpriced tools that they pushed, although I do have to give it to TEAM they at least were the only organization that had a profit sharing plan for the tools) the corporation has to deal with their whining and they don’t like it. Plus they just lost another customer.
Screeeeeeeech…. ok… so what are you getting at?
Here is what you have all been waiting for, the big secret…remember the cutting the hand off thing so you can be profitable again. If you get rid of all the IBOs and the whiny Diamonds and above you can be profitable again. “Well that doesnt make sense.” you say… unless…Light bulb flicks on in your head (you took my advice and stopped sniffing the LOC didn’t you) They are going to market their products on a retail shelf…in Walmart, in Albertsons, in Costco, in SAMS, in Kroger’s , in MACYs, in Dillards, in Kmart…ok maybe not Kmart, I know thats a little extreme, but you get the picture. That was the best thing Avon ever did and it is the best thing for Q/A if they want to survive in North America. Whether you like it or not that is corporate America today. Somebodies head is on a chopping block and he has no loyalty to the IBO… just to himself… well and his kids so you can’t really blame it on him. That is business, just realize prices will keep going up, you wont be able to recruit under the new rules and everyone knows it, and your system will become sales material regulated strictly by the corporation, not leadership development business building material. Lets face it you didn’t get into this to be a salesman and the corporation knows it. They don’t need you anymore!
October 10th, 2007 at 1:02 am
Qreilly,
Thank you for posting that.
Tex #222
You need to know what you’re talking about to correct people.
and #251
Nobody owes you any answer’s. You need to calm down buddy.
October 10th, 2007 at 1:06 am
You TEAM guys feel products are high priced?
You TEAM guys feel Alticor treats IBOs as property?
You TEAM guys feel that TEAM has big plans and will succeed greatly in the future?
Then go out and show it!
Don’t sit here blasting Alticor/Quixtar!!!
Did you ever find any of us -including Tex - blasting your leadership on your TEAM forums?
Go out and do something!
I think you TEAM ppl are frustrated abt your leadership!
And since you followed them like sheep - you ‘re venting out that frustration on Alticor!
I saw you TEAM guys talk a lot abt the class action california case!
One TEAM guy even went to the extent of predicting a lot of resignations in Alticor!
You spread a lot of negative - hiding behind that class action case!
Your websites carried a lot of negative!
Now what do u hv to say - that the california case has been dismissed?
What can u say??
You hv no reason to be here in these forums!
Your websites carry no info abt the dismissed case - No official info what-so-ever!
I love that Judge frm California - You TEAM guys jumped a lot - But he put you where you belonged!
Until yesterday you were asking us to wait for the judgement and today you say that ‘wins’ and ‘losses’ don’t matter!
Until yesterday you were talking a lot abt scores and stuff!
You say now that you ‘re willing to wait for six months anyway!
[And that was what Quixtar/Alticor has been telling you all along!]
Until yesterday you hv been asking us to wait until the Hon’ble Judge grants you ‘freedom’and thereby declaring Quixtar as an Illegal pyramid!
Today you say that character counts and that the judge just dismissed the case but never said if quixtar was an illegal pyramid or not!
and may be tommorrow you TEAM guys’ll say that the earth is flat coz Orrin says so and the Judge should say the same thing too!
October 10th, 2007 at 1:16 am
Hey mediator was that a little too truthful, I can cut some stuff out if you need me to keep it on the DL?
October 10th, 2007 at 2:09 am
Hey Everyone (except for anyone who is not an IBO and is planted on this site),
Just saw the Q/A webcast, loooooks grrrrrrrreat! Only because it backs up my whole entire argument! They are going retail baby and they don’t need us anymore, unless you want to be a salesman who has to wait 2 years to get paid! $12 million in national advertising, and hiring Steve Lieberman from SC Johnson (you know they make products that sell on retail shelves: ziploc, glade, off, windex, edge shaving gel, shout, raid, drano)as VP and Managing Director! Perspective People, the corp is covering their tail ends, come on guys, cover yours.
Oh yeah and I know you are all wondering why my perspective is so clear…so I will just let you in on my secret. I have inside information from both sides. Ok, not really but that would be cool huh. Come on…this is the information age right, use your keyboard, use your heads, you don’t have to go far to find the tree that the apple fell from, you find the best information closest to the source, you just have to be able to read the signs and understand the corporate mind. It isn’t really a big secret. He who has the correct information wins, and I don’t like people to lose if they don’t have to.
October 10th, 2007 at 2:37 am
Shame, Shame Shame on you!! Your webcast was simply more words. Nothing substantial. I mean you have been telling the IBOAI for almost 3 years that “you are working on it” when they asked you about lowering prices. How do we know that this isn’t just another false promise. Your incentives are at the mercy of a popularity contest. I mean what if your affiliation is told you are almost “accredited” all the way up to August 31 and again the rug is pulled out from under us. You are stealing from your sales force!! A 12 million dollar advertising campaign is not we are asking for…..Aren’t you listening?? What good is it to advertise for a product that we can’t possibly sell and make a decent living!! A quick calculation of your new Simply Nutrilite product(looks like you are quickly trying to get rid of your #1 selling XS Energy line….which we actually can sell, but not at a profit)reveals that it would require an IBO to sell(at retail)102 cases of the “Antioxidant-pep Juice” per month to achieve 7500 PV. This brings in a cold hard income of $1421.70(includes retail and PV income) This means your sales must average 3.5 cases per day! By the way, the 1421.70 would not be enough to cover shipping cost, let alone tax. Why didn’t you just lower some prices and keep the name, you would have acutally saved money and you could have paid it to your hard-working sales force?????
October 10th, 2007 at 4:26 am
Miss Utah # 216, you dont have to believe me if you dont want to. Im very sorry that you went down to 400, I really am. I was part of TeamEspanol wich was legacy but Now we’re Vision Global. XS and Nutrilite are really easy products to sell when you know your products. Quixtar products maybe arent the cheapest, but they sure are good quality and my clients know that and God is my witness.
October 10th, 2007 at 8:06 am
Utah,
Libel. It’s spelled libel. Libel is written, slander is verbal. The word liable means legally responsible or likely to happen, as in: Orrin is liable for the business damage his “illegal pyramid” lawsuit caused, and is liable to lose his shirt in arbitration.
Sounds like you’re out of the loop, better check your phone connection to Orrin’s “hot line” number, maybe he changed it.
Are you related to Sgt. Schultz of “Hogan’s Heros” fame, his best line was, “I know nus-sing”?
Market America does sound like a good fit to me, too, as I’m sure Orrin sees himself as “Captain America”. But don’t worry, your secret is safe with us.
October 10th, 2007 at 8:09 am
Qreilly #250:
The reason Q doesn’t want the tool profits to be disclosed, is because the business is about the Amway products, not about the Business **Support** Materials.
The more you rely on tool profits, the more you get to the situation where getting more people into the system is the way you get rewarded. Remember that to be legitimate, people need to be rewarded on product sales, not on getting new people into the system.
It’s shades of grey, but I prefer Q to err on the side of caution.
October 10th, 2007 at 8:19 am
#223 Rico:
See, that’s where TEAM has misled you. Quixtar IS The Opportunity. When TEAM got their accredidation w/Quixtar it certainly wasn’t so they could pass themselves off as The Business and Q as the supplier.
I feel sorry for you TEAM members who can’t see that you were duped.
October 10th, 2007 at 9:57 am
Wow, haven’t been here in days and was feeling much better, attitude jumped exponentially. Then thought I would check out the blog and man, the negativity here is astounding! TEAM people, lets just stay off of here, there is no information worth reading. Reminds me of “Married With Children” back when I watched TV and was getting nowhere in life. These people agrue and spread negative because when you squeeze an orange you can only get whats inside…orange juice.
Don’t you see people like Tex and Piet are just angry at the world for their lack of success in life? Remember misery loves company. TEAM people will move on and wish others the best, these people wish us the worse. Let’s let them argue amongst themselves and in the meantime we will move forward.
Heard some things about the future and you will all be in “shock and awe”. These people don’t believe we are going to a million people, I don’t either. A million people will simply be a milestone to something even greater. I heard Q volume has drastically sunk, while my business has increased 26% in the last month. It is all about Leadership!!
October 10th, 2007 at 10:08 am
Tex #251,
Common… you honestly expect Ron or Chuck to respond to you? Who do you think you are?
You have posted that your “ONLY active downline” requested a LOS transfer, and yet you expect two of the most successful MLM entrepreneurs in the world to directly respond to your questions?
The only scam here is you, pretending to be more than a sniffling baby who couldn’t succeed, now “out to get” those who bring your failure to light with their success.
I don’t really care what Quixtar does anymore; I hope they are successful in the end, but a whining little baby stinking up the blog with his poop and expecting anything more than a spanking is insane.
It is time for you to take the pacifier out of your mouth; replace the diaper with underwear; put on some pants with a zipper… in the front; and take the responsibility for your own decisions.
NOBODY CARES WHAT YOU THINK!!! If anyone, other than Tex, cares what Tex thinks about the tools, please… by all means… speak up.
October 10th, 2007 at 10:15 am
— NOW BACK TO OUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED POSITIVE FORUM—
I’ve grown weary of the childish behavior of certain bloggers, I guess that is obvious, so it’s time to call it.
Good luck with your businesses everyone both involved with TEAM and Quixtar. I wish everyone success!
I do not “intend” on posting further.
October 10th, 2007 at 11:09 am
#250 Qreilly,
The reason Quixtar/Amway does not want tool profit information shared is because of their concern over the legal ramifications.
The tool system is a chain-marketing scheme. The only people who purchase the tools are affiliated with TEAM, and they could possibly make money if enough volume flow through them. That is a “product pyramid.” As long as people know they can profit from tools they are no longer consumers looking for personal growth and development, but rather associates attempting to be participate in the profits. Legally there is a difference.
TEAM is on very shaky ground by fully disclosing how the tool system works. If TEAM members or former members take that information to the proper authorities, TEAM leaders could be in very big trouble.
October 10th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Oh, no! Orrin may have hopped on the Walmart train a tad late:
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/TheEndOfTheWalMartEra.aspx
October 10th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Tex,
Seriously…..Lets just give it up. Who really cares. Those of us in Team are so Excited for the amazing things to come! If you are not on the Team who cares? Good luck in your endeavor and may God bless you in whatever you do. Take care.
October 10th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
TEX - I get a little dumber every time I read your posts.
Proverbs 14:23 - “In all labor there is profit, but mere talk leads only to poverty.” All I have ever heard you do is ‘talk.’
Proverbs 26:16 - “The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render reason.”
If you can count, there are more then 7 people here that have offered reason. Yet you are almost alone in your conceit.
Have fun with that.
October 10th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Tex,
Please tell everyone here the amount and sources of all of your income last year.
I certainly don’t expect you to answer me. I wouldn’t blame you for it either. In fact, I wouldn’t even be offended if you said “none of your business.” So please don’t be so offended when Ron or Chuck, or anyone else for that matter, aren’t inclined to answer you.
Lets all assume for a moment that they make a LOT of money from system sales, because they are responsible for generating a LARGE volume of sales…..SO WHAT? It is profit sharing…they earned their share.
Qreilly,
Nice post. Right on the money.
October 10th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
Tex, what is your occupation???
October 10th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
If, as claimed, anyone faces increased non-compete times by going through the arbitration process, why would they not just walk away and wait out the current ones? At this point, they have been terminated already. If they feel they will lose in arbitration, what advantage is there in going forward? Unless I misunderstand it, Quixtar can not force a terminated IBO to go to arbitration to argue their dismissal, can they?
October 10th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Tex #233
“They brought up “a war where someone fought and alluding it to this small ridiculous “corporate” problem”, so be offended at them, not me.”
He mentioned he was a vet not that fighting the war was related to this issue only to express his background and how he has learned not to give up. That’s a personality trait.
It’s funny that you mention Jesus in your posts… you are no where near Christ like. And righteous indignation is for people defending Christian principles, not complaining over a lawsuit and insulting people the way you have been only because they support what they believe. I don’t think if people do or don’t believe or listen to you they are against or for God’s plan.
I’m not sensitive; you have given no facts to support anything you have been ranting about this entire time. If anyone, you are acting way over sensitive, you jump and attack someone personally without knowing them and disregard their intelligence and opinion. You attempt to spin everything said to your advantage. Apparently you can’t take an opinion other than yours or someone who believes similar to you.
So you found a CD cost $1… Big deal? You expect musicians to sell their CD’s for $1? You expect Zig Ziegler (spelling) to sell his CD’s for $1? I would think someone needs profit since they are the ones that put that music or information and time into it. Right? I’d think so, that takes a sacrifice of time and effort. To the people they help, they are priceless. Just because you feel they are waste of money and a scam doesn’t mean many feel they are helpful. Think what you want but don’t judge people like you know them, relax and understand the tools sold from Team or Quixtar or where ever can help people.
October 10th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
Moderator, Is there a reason why you didn’t post my comments from last night?
October 10th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
You guys are still at it…NoMOCrow! Think!
October 10th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
NoMOCrow!
#253,
Take a breath yet? What’s your point? Do it without another “War and Peace”, please.
#257,
I think you are mistaken about the retail store drivel.
Maxwell Smart #258,
Some prices have already come down, and more to come down.
How do you know that this isn’t just another false promise? Google UK and Amway.
If $12 million in advertising brings more volume, it makes sense. You know, just like a real business. What makes you think they are getting rid of XS?
There is more than a single product, genius.
Piet #261,
Did you get your opinion confirmed from the corp? If what you are saying is true, it no longer applies, because the tool scam is now much more well known.
Thunderstruck #263,
I agree, all TEAM people should go away, we have bigger fish to fry. Orrin is history.
amazed #264/5,
Yes, I expect them to answer, if they are man enough, that is. All I can smell when they come on this blog is KFC.
Bub-bye.
Renshi #266,
Any time you keep important secrets from your “teammates” and “business partners”, you are being unethical. It’s too late to use your excuse for hiding the tool profits, there is too much known about it now. Also, I don’t believe you are correct in your reasoning.
Negative Nancy #268,
I care.
October 10th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
SPARTAN #269
You get a little dumber every time you take a breath.
All I have ever heard you do is ‘talk.’ —- You want to hear me sing?
There are more then 7 people here that have offered lies and refusal to address the facts. You have much company in your errors.
Have fun with that.
whatever #270,
Why should I tell everyone here the amount and sources of all of my income last year? I didn’t scam anyone.
You certainly don’t expect me to answer you, and you got your expectation.
You wouldn’t blame me for it either, because I’m not the topic, the lying cowardly “kingpins” are the topic.
In fact, you wouldn’t even be offended if I said “none of your business.”, which I did, sort of.
So please don’t be so offended when Ron or Chuck, or anyone else for that matter, aren’t inclined to answer me? I thought it was posted in Atlanta, what are they afraid of, the boogie man?
Lets all assume for a moment that they make a LOT of money from system sales, because they are responsible for generating a LARGE volume of sales…..SO WHAT? It is profit sharing…they earned their share. —- Not if they lie about it to their “teammates” and “business partners”.
Qreilly, Nice post. Right on the money, except you didn’t talk about the money. Otherwise, nice post.
October 10th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Allen #271,
Who you gonna call…..scam busters!
BK #272,
Q can drag them into arbitration to punish them for the damage they did, with their “illegal pyramid” lawsuit. Q has already said Randy and Don will be taken to arbitration, and they withdrew from the suit before it went to arbitration.
nothing #273,
And I brought up the war, because he is now aligning with the bad guys.
Jesus displayed righteous indignation with the religious leadership, just like I have with the lying cowardly “kingpins”, because they are both screwed up, big time. He also displayed righteous indignation with the temple money changers, which reminds me a lot of the tool scam. Therefore, you are wrong, again.
The facts are all around you, you just don’t want to know them.
The difference with a music or Zig Ziglar CD is two-fold:
1. Neither of them claim to be our “business partners” or “teammates”, and
2. Most people do not buy the volume of CD’s from the other examples you mentioned.
October 10th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Quixkicked #207
Maybe I didn’t relay my thought correctly. What I was wondering was team tools. For example, if my Diamond leaves their former group they take their entire LOS with them. The Diamond above him no longer makes any Quixtar money from that group. So where does that group go? According to my Diamond we became a part of the team and even had our very own Team name within team. I don’t have a clue where we would fall and if anyone would be able to profit above my Diamond on Quixtar money. But if they were plugged into the team system wouldn’t they fall somewhere under Orrin. And if so, wouldn’t Orrin’s group grow bigger? And if it’s bigger wouldn’t he profit more? That was my question.
Utah #252
Actually a friend directed me to a team blog. He said it was a blog that if you said anything bad about the team they cut you off so it basically became an all team blog. He told me to check it out and recently they were talking about February 8th and were saying “MA” for a while. Then one blog said he checked out Market America and it looks like “what Orrin promised us.” Maybe the “MA” and Market America was a coincidence. Maybe they were just making it all up and really don’t know. All I know is the blog is a team blog.
October 10th, 2007 at 7:02 pm
Tex #243
As for tool profits I can tell you what my upline Platinum told us when we made the switch. This was their big selling point, even more so than “the system” or growth or anything else. They made this point a number of times to us.
They said that if you have 3 legs (50,50,25 on system) you would be making $10,000 a month. They said that came down from the team based on a current IBO’s volume.
Each person on system would spend $1,490.00 a year ($5 Open every week, $25 monthly meetings, $50 (rounded down) system monthly, $5 monthly website, $90 conference 3 times). That total’s $186,250 in total money generated.
I didn’t do the math at the time, but doing it now I come up with:
Total money in: $187,740 with your own purchases.
Payout: $10,000 a month times 12 = $120,000.
So, if the team and/or my upline didn’t exagerate or lie about the numbers, that’s $67,740 a year to be shared upline and downline to Platinums and above.
October 10th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
freedom #279/80,
It is very difficult to change lines of sponsorship of an entire Diamondship. It is much easier to change the tool system a Diamondship is using.
They said that if you have 3 legs (50,50,25 on system) you would be making $10,000 a month. They said that came down from the team based on a current IBO’s volume. —- Thanks for the numbers, I have been asking for this type of information for YEARS from various lines of sponsorship, you are the first to provide them.
1. Does this include all sources of TEAM tool income, such as Opens, Seminars, Major functions, voice mail, web site, CD’s, books, etc?
2. I assume this person would be a strong Sapphire, and perhaps even an Emerald. Do you have any idea how much more this person would make in tools versus Q?
3. What happens when you start to break Sapphires and Emeralds in depth, surely
there must be some sort of “breakaway” bonuses, similar to the 4% bonus, the depth and leadership Q bonuses, to offset the decrease in tool profit for these situations, which I assume arise even more with the stacking/depth model used by TEAM.
4. I can understand why your Platinum was so excited, I have also read postings from TEAM supporters, that TEAM Platinums expect to make more, sometimes several times more, from the tools than Q. If this was shown in the plan, I would have no issue with it. However, it isn’t.
5. I think you forgot the costs to provide these items. Not all of the money paid goes to profit.
6. However, you didn’t include profits from the books or voice mail.
October 10th, 2007 at 11:27 pm
Freedom #279
The Quixtar LOS is not dependent on where the training comes from. I could be plugged into the INET system, then the BWW system, then the whatever-you-want system, and my LOS does not change. Orrin did not become part of my upline when we aligned with Team. And since in the Team system you are paid tool profits based on your teams (downline Quixtar LOS) tool volume Orrin did not make any more tool money when we joined. No extra Quixtar volume, no extra tool volume for Orrin.
October 10th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
What happened to my post?
October 10th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
I asked questions. I did not call anyone names and I did not make false statements.
October 11th, 2007 at 12:01 am
TEX YOU GET PAID BY WORD?
WELL,ITS WAY BETTER TO SELL OVERPRICED PRODUCTS!!
GOOD,TEX NOW YOU ARE USING THE BALL UP OF YOUR SHOULDER’S…..
I CHOOSE TO RESIGN QUIXTAR.
YOU CHOOSE TO SELL INTEGRITY.
GO TEAM))))))))
October 11th, 2007 at 12:05 am
LA ERA DEL INTERNET SOLO ESTARA EN AQUELLOS QUE MANTENGAN UNA COMUNIDAD GANANDO DINERO Y QUIXTAR GANA MAS QUE LA COMUNIDAD POR QUE TU ERES NEGOCIO PARA EL Y QUIXTAR ES NEGOCIO SOLO SI ESTAS DISPUESTO A CONVENCER GENTE A COMPRAR PRODUCTOS CAROS Y ESO TENDRIA QUE SER UN GASTO PARA LOS LATINOS……..NEGOCIOS SON NEGOCIOS Y TEAM ES MAS QUE UN NEGOCIO,,YA VERAS,YA VERAS))\
PARA CUANDO LO VEAS SERA DEMASIADO Y VENDRAS A BUSCAR A TEAM,CREEMELO.ASI SERA.AMEN
October 11th, 2007 at 2:49 am
COMPLOT Is there a reason why you didn’t post my comments…..OH!!! BECAUSE YOUR DADY BOY TEX..
I FEEL LIKE BE IN THE IBOA,YOU GUYS DONT LISTEN.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:51 am
LANCE SMITH HE’S THE MAN))))))
LATINOS UNIDOS
TEAM
October 11th, 2007 at 7:37 am
Just been to freetheibo.com, I don’t understand why they haven’t updated their home page yet.
Was rather surprised and dismayed when I looked at their latest blogs. One talks about the integrity of Orrin and Chris, the more recent is a video from youtube which is insulting to any IBO/ABO. Quite stunned they posted it.
October 11th, 2007 at 7:45 am
Tex, man. You gotta get on system, or get a life of some kind beside blogging here. Are you not an IBO, why not build your Amway business? Or are you finding that difficult lately?
I did not sign up for Amway so I resigned and continuing to use the system to be prepared for whatever is coming down the road for the Team. I for one have no problem waiting a few months to be involved in something the Q had the potential of being. The idea of buying stuff online, getting it delivered to your door step is growing all around us into a trillion dollar business. Amway and their overpricing has, is and will miss out on this trend. It’s really sad the hard working Quixtar employees will be laid off because of corps greed and short sited approach to IBOs. Some of the products we will miss but it doesn’t make any financial sense to my family to spend money on over priced stuff on the hope that I will be compensated with rebates. It’s been just too difficult to defend the high prices with all prospects I’ve come across.
For you naysayers out there, the fact is I’ve stopped the bleeding. My credit cards are no longer being charged for over priced products that I can’t resell. There is no Team MLM yet but I look forward to whatever the Team may do in the future. If the products are crap and over priced, guess what, I won’t buy them but I am very confident the pricing and compensation will be much, much better, than Amway. It will be much easier to change our buying habits and purchase or resell products and services via my own company. It will be much easier to build my business because of the aid of the system and the knowledge that it will not be Amway and since the pricing will be more inline with reality, a real opportunity for people to decide on the merits of the opportunity itself that will demonstrate duplicatable results. Yes, in the meantime, my credit card is bleeding no more.
October 11th, 2007 at 9:41 am
Tex # 278
“Jesus displayed righteous indignation with the religious leadership, just like I have with the lying cowardly “kingpins”, because they are both screwed up, big time.”
No matter how wrong you claim people are, you still have no facts. And this is not righteous indignation; this is you acting holier than though. This lawsuit is not against God, maybe against your company which has no religious ties. I don’t think I am wrong, I think you are using the wrong phrase to describe your actions.
What makes them liars? The fact that they couldn’t state the profit sharing info because Quixtar told them they couldn’t? I assume you think that stocks are evil too? Buy in, get dividends, cash them in, lose money, buy more, etc… If the profit is shared, I don’t see they down side. If you are helping people, I think you should be paid back for that. Nothing comes for free.
What facts? The facts that when people succeed, others want to hear how they did it? That’s exactly what Team and other CD’s for motivation do. Actually they can’t afford any volume of the CD’s that are on the training systems because they are literally $12-20 a CD. Also, some of the training system is about personal growth and not business related, that information is invaluable to people that have never seen a perspective or advice given in the CDs.
Face it, you want to be right in your “facts” but fail to give real facts but rather give a range or an idea of what you think is right instead of real numbers and facts. Maybe I’d understand your side better if you showed real facts and gave real information rather than implying that people aren’t opening their eyes to see the facts. Sometimes real proven facts have to be issued in order for people to understand what is going on. My point is, if you don’t have those proven facts, it’s hard for people to understand you let alone take your abuse for having their own opinion.
I may not return to this blog, it has done nothing but negative reinforcement and is a big sink hole of time. I’d rather concentrate on something else since I just wasted 5 minutes of my life writing this.
Best wishes everyone in whatever venture you decide is right for you.
October 11th, 2007 at 9:53 am
With all the crap building up all around here and all around the world… all I can say is there must be a pony in here somewhere and our group will be digging through all this crap, we will find that pony and ride that pony to the TOP with TEAM and to the mountaintops of success around the world! It is all attitude!
If you say you can, you can! If you say you can not, you will be right! Your choice!
October 11th, 2007 at 10:06 am
AEM #282,
“…Orrin did not make any more tool money when we joined. No extra Quixtar volume, no extra tool volume for Orrin.” —- I wouldn’t bet on that. But even if true, it doesn’t remove the fact most of his income came from the previously secret tool scam.
Pa #283/4,
Calling someone names or being wrong, whether intentionally or unintentionally, is not a criteria for your message not getting posted, unless you use extreme profanity.
TEAM_MEX #285/6/7/8,
No, by the number of posts I respond to. That’s why I usually keep them short.
Translation: It WAS IT OF THE ALONE INTERNET WAS IN THOSE THAT MAINTAIN A COMMUNITY WINNING MONEY AND QUIXTAR WINS BUT THAT THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE YOUR you ARE BUSINESS FOR THE AND QUIXTAR IS ALONE BUSINESS IF THESE WILLING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE TO BUY EXPENSIVE PRODUCTS AND THAT TENDRIA THAT TO BE AN EXPENSE FOR THE Latin Americans……..NEGOCIOS ARE BUSINESS AND TEAM IS BUT THAT A BUSINESS,, ALREADY REALLY, ALREADY REALLY))\ FOR WHEN IT VENDRAS TO SEEK TO TEAM, CREATE IT TO ME. ASI BASKET.LOVE
Patience, your messaage will get posted.
LANCE SMITH HE’S THE SCAM MAN))))))
IBO UK #289,
I don’t understand why they haven’t updated their home page yet. —- Easy. They fired their PR firm, there is nothing positive to post, and they are busy pulling their pants down for the arbritration whupping they will soon receive.
Was rather surprised and dismayed when I looked at their latest blogs. —- I wasn’t.
One talks about the integrity of Orrin and Chris, the more recent is a video from youtube which is insulting to any IBO/ABO. —- Par for the course, they insulted every IBO/ABO with their lawsuit.
Quite stunned they posted it. —- I expected it, especially since the PR firm is no longer screening out the posts that don’t serve their purpose.
October 11th, 2007 at 10:15 am
freeatlast #290,
freeatlast, man. You gotta get off system, or get a life of some kind beside being an Orrinite here.
Are you not an IBO, why not build your Amway business? —- I’ve already explained that.
Or are you finding that difficult lately? —- Not just lately, for several years.
I did not sign up for Amway so I resigned and continuing to use the system to be prepared for whatever is coming down the road for the Team. —- I can tell you how to be prepared, you don’t need the system. Just put your head between your legs and kiss your (backside) goodbye.
I for one have no problem waiting a few months to be involved in something the Q had the potential of being. —- Looks like Orrin did, right?
The idea of buying stuff online, getting it delivered to your door step is growing all around us into a trillion dollar business. —- And now you have to wait to get involved in a business that does that using an MLM model.
Amway and their overpricing has, is and will miss out on this trend. —- You haven’t been paying attention lately, have you?
It’s really sad the hard working Quixtar employees will be laid off because of corps greed and short sited approach to IBOs. —- If it happens, we can thank Orrin, and he shouldn’t be surprised when the corp comes down on him HARD in arbitration for causing it.
Some of the products we will miss but it doesn’t make any financial sense to my family to spend money on over priced stuff on the hope that I will be compensated with rebates. —- See above, you’re already behind the times.
It’s been just too difficult to defend the high prices with all prospects I’ve come across. —- I just tell them not to buy those products, unless the quality/convenience makes sense to them.
For you naysayers out there, the fact is I’ve stopped the bleeding. —- You’re still bleeding tool scam money.
My credit cards are no longer being charged for over priced products that I can’t resell. —- I don’t buy or try to sell those products.
There is no Team MLM yet but I look forward to whatever the Team may do in the future. —- I hope you have a lot of patience, it may be a long while.
If the products are crap and over priced, guess what, I won’t buy them but I am very confident the pricing and compensation will be much, much better, than Amway. —- Is that why there are already so many MLM’s bigger than Amway?
It will be much easier to change our buying habits and purchase or resell products and services via my own company. —- Starting your own company now? Good luck.
It will be much easier to build my business because of the aid of the system and the knowledge that it will not be Amway and since the pricing will be more inline with reality, a real opportunity for people to decide on the merits of the opportunity itself that will demonstrate duplicatable results. —- Dream on.
Yes, in the meantime, my credit card is bleeding no more. —- You pay cash for the tools?
October 11th, 2007 at 10:27 am
freedom #279,
Thanks for the info. on where that rumor came from. If you had thousands of people wanting to know what was “next”, they might start speculating. Unfortunatly, that specific rumor is dangerous to all sides, hence my reaction. I just know the highest “pin” I even have indirect contact with is not saying anything to anyone about “next”, if they even know.
October 11th, 2007 at 10:29 am
nothing #291,
No matter how wrong you claim people are, you still have no facts. —- You must not be reading the posts from the Orrinites, bragging how much tool scam money they make. Or all the other evidence from other groups, have you googled Amway/Quixtar and Anderson, Stewart, Morrison, Hart, TIF? Plenty of evidence, for those who are willing to open their eyes.
And this is not righteous indignation; this is you acting holier than though. This lawsuit is not against God, maybe against your company which has no religious ties. I don’t think I am wrong, I think you are using the wrong phrase to describe your actions. —- I am not acting holier than anyone, I am pointing out a scam. It is an analogy, I never claimed to be perfect, but that doesn’t prevent me from pointing out a scam. You are wrong.
What makes them liars? The fact that they couldn’t state the profit sharing info because Quixtar told them they couldn’t? —- That’s what they said, I’ve seen no proof, or response to the question why the tool prices were kept high to produce MASSIVE profits.
I assume you think that stocks are evil too? Buy in, get dividends, cash them in, lose money, buy more, etc… If the profit is shared, I don’t see they down side. If you are helping people, I think you should be paid back for that. Nothing comes for free. —- No, I don’t think stocks are evil. Stocks never told me they were my “businss partner” or “teammate”, then turned around and scammed me on tools, either. Nothing comes for free, but truth is priceless, lies are worthless.
What facts? The facts that when people succeed, others want to hear how they did it? —- No, the facts that many more do not succeed and all who buy the tools are getting scammed.
That’s exactly what Team and other CD’s for motivation do. —- That is part of what they do.
Actually they can’t afford any volume of the CD’s that are on the training systems because they are literally $12-20 a CD. —- They also don’t normally buy the $12-20 CD’s, even multiple CD’s, every week.
Also, some of the training system is about personal growth and not business related, that information is invaluable to people that have never seen a perspective or advice given in the CDs. —- So what? Does that give you the right to scam people? You call lying to your “teammates” and “business partners” personal growth?
Face it, you want to be right in your “facts” but fail to give real facts but rather give a range or an idea of what you think is right instead of real numbers and facts. —- See #280/1, and next time read before you type.
Maybe I’d understand your side better if you showed real facts and gave real information rather than implying that people aren’t opening their eyes to see the facts. —- See #2380/1 above.
Sometimes real proven facts have to be issued in order for people to understand what is going on. —- See #2380/1 above.
My point is, if you don’t have those proven facts, it’s hard for people to understand you let alone take your abuse for having their own opinion. —- See #2380/1 above. Did I say it enough times for it to sink in?
I may not return to this blog, it has done nothing but negative reinforcement and is a big sink hole of time. I’d rather concentrate on something else since I just wasted 5 minutes of my life writing this. —- You wasted my time as well.
Best wishes everyone in whatever venture you decide is right for you. —- Bub-bye.
October 11th, 2007 at 10:31 am
Monette #292,
You’re sitting on the pony.
His name is Orrin.
You will be in the crap no matter where you go with him.
I suggest finding a different vehicle than that pony.
October 11th, 2007 at 11:06 am
#253
Thank you. I have been saying that since June! Nobody has responded to your comments and I do mean “nobody”.
October 11th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
To All (once again):
Sorry, I can’t join in your game of singling each comment out and bashing the other’s brain in guys. There is no perspective in that. I would just be pushing my own agenda. Which I do have an agenda, but you won’t find that out on this blog or any other proquix, or proteam blog. The point is for you to read, think, and act based on fact not emotion. All you will get from me is this…Perspective…so that you can finally make the decision, but the correct decision. Just to preface though, lets sum up what is going on here. TEAM is a Leadership Development Service Provider. Content: CDs books, DVDs and Seminars. That is it… No other content! No other Commerce! You do not own your own business, you are a salesman. TEAM is going to 1 million customers at Seminars…not 1 million business owners.
Q/A is a retail corporation, no longer focused on communities of independent distributors. You will become a salesman and within the next 5 years you will be phased out in North America and maybe even Europe. They do not need distributors to build a loyal community. Wal-mart didn’t and they have the biggest community of all. Q/A wants to be on the shelf of every major retailer. They no longer need the IBO.
October 11th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
By the way… for those of you thinking that I am from a competing MLM, your assumption is wrong, let me tell you that straight up. I am pro free market economy so how could I be for one of the most highly regulated (between government agencies and the companies themselves) industries in North America.
October 11th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
Tex #293
I didn’t expect you to bet on it. The other night I read the “an in-depth look at amway” site, not the whole thing but the section on system. You are right about so many things, many many people have been ripped off and hurt badly by people who own tool companies. I now understand why you ask for numbers and details so much, I would do the same thing. That’s why I am so happy about Team, because they designed their system to not have the problems of systems in the past: tool profit was not kept secret, they talked about their lifestyle coming from not only the Quixtar business but from system related profits to, the tools produced were extremely informative and useful. You know that’s why Orrin left INET, he saw how they ran their tool business and said “no, I would like to give everybody on my Team the same pay plan all around, see ya” those are not exact words, I wasn’t there I don’t know exact words, but that was the point.
There is a big difference between most BSM companies and Team, BIG difference. Just keep in mind that the same way you got sick of tool companies ripping people off, Orrin got sick of it to, that is why he left Inet and helped create Team.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Utah #295,
Don’t worry, the Market America rumor is safe with us.
We wouldn’t spread the word that you are looking to join Market America or any other MLM.
Don’t worry, I’m sure the Quixtar lawyers don’t read these blogs for tips that the Orrinites may leave and go to Market America or any other MLM.
Nor would Quixtar employees forward these messages about Market America to the lawyers.
Neither would I…or would I?
Wondering #298,
I responded. See #276.
NoMOCrow! #299/300,
Good luck selling leadership ONLY. You’ll need it.
As far as your predictions for the future of Q/A, you are about as right as Orrin was trying to get his “illegal pyramid” lawsuit getting a hearing in the CA court system.
Don’t worry, we don’t consider you competition, MLM or no MLM. You have to have some level of success to be a competitor, which has not yet been demonstrated. A potential future competitor, perhaps.
AEM #301,
If he’s so proud of the tool profit, why was this not shown/discussed during Opens and Seminars? Why was there an apparent requirement not to share the tool profit in their tool profit contract?
October 11th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Tex -
In regards to you comments:
“Some prices have already come down, and more to come down.”
What prices? I have seen the reduction of PV values. But Tex, if you actually read my comments, an IBO still can’t make a profit selling products. And Tex, I told you this before; making a profit is what makes a business. Your knee-jerk reactions, pedestrian analysis, and petty personal attacks are droll and a waste of time.
“How do you know that this isn’t just another false promise? Google UK and Amway.”
Tex, I agree with you this is another meaningless set of promises. Yes, I have Googled UK and Amway. It is surprising what a governmental investigation can produce. It is also important to note, Tex that in the UK, Amway has let IBOs who wish to leave leave. I think that a governmental investigation here would do wonders as well. All of these “changes” have been brought about by the courageous legal action by Orrin et al.
Quixtar/Amway relishes arbitration because it is behind closed doors and their massive resources can crush any IBO. The Team’s total resources do not equal the annual legal expenses of Amway. The American Constitution provides for public trials to be decided by peers. Amway doesn’t — some “American Way”.
“If $12 million in advertising brings more volume, it makes sense. You know, just like a real business. What makes you think they are getting rid of XS?”
Tex, Tex, Tex. Obviously you are not familiar with national advertising rates. A couple of monthly ads and one or two national TV spots is all $12 million will buy — not really a blitz. Tide alone has over a billion dollar advertising budget and P&G aren’t even blitzing Tide. No Tex, Quixtar/Amway is missing a zero to make even hope to make an effective introduction to the national public, much less compete with the likes of P&G.
I believe that XS is on its way out because they are all but excluded in this campaign and that their line of products are systematically being replaced — or at least the profitable ones. See Tex, the concept of profit applies here as well.
“There is more than a single product, genius.”
Tex, what are you talking about? I know there is more than a single product, and they’re being replaced.
Oh, and the sarcastic “genius” comment — since your wrong, it comes across as childish.
So Tex, as the Administrator says, “Easy, easy.” You get too emotional and lashing out at people. Check your facts and try not to obfuscate the truth.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Chaitanya #255:
We would love to show it! But we can’t. Myself I am bound by the non-compete until March 11, 2008. Orrin is bound until February 9, 2008. This whole fiasco had only one purpose, to get the non-compete ruled non-enforceable.
I am sorry for all the bad press and court proceedings, but if you read the affidavits the leaders did suggest a peaceful departure, even a 2 or 4 month wait, but the full 6-month wait was considered a hardship for some of our people who depended on the business income.
Fortunately I still have a job and that income to help me through, but my ex-platinum is a good friend and a relatively new platinum, and they are pinching pennies I am sure. (His wife had to postpone her job-retirement date for one)
October 11th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
#298 Wondering
If you look at the IBOAI blog site, on product moving, etc, there have been people, including me that have been concerned with the new Simply Nutilite site because people can buy things there without an IBO (the default is no ibo) and that website is getting nationally advertised. Yes, I am sure, or not, that they will give some IBO the credit, but it won’t build the customers they are claiming, unless we send them to it. To me, it is the sign that the corporation is doing what you think.
If that is correct, than this whole mess was planned by Alticor to get rid of the IBO’s. It certainly was aimed at IBOs that don’t have a “balanced” business.
I was told 16 years ago, that I didn’t have to sell anything. Yes I have tried. I buy, and have sponsored people over the years that do the same. I was told that I would have people that didn’t want to be a distributor and would buy products as a customer. That has worked. The last few years, the prices have hurt both customers and IBOs. I was impressed before 8/10 with Team and there system. Since then, their leadership speakers are great, some of the best in the world. But the current situation is a mess.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
#302 Utah
I think it might have been the Quixtar Ada-tudes blog site, sorry.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
243-Tex,
there you are confused again, Lets see what does all this mean…The court case was to get rid of the no-compete, oh and it was dismissed and thrown into arbitration. What does that mean, it means the arbitrators get to hear it and decide if they can throw out the no-compete. Worse case is Quixtar gets the arbitrators to not do anything for 4 months, at that point The Team no longer needs to go to arbitration because the no-compete time is up.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Tex: I gladly pay for my 4 cds and 1 book a month as I apply the knowledge from the system to many aspects of my life. You choose not to use tools and guess what, it’s a free country and people have a right to choose not to learn, not to change their bad habits. I don’t sit and read blogs all day and night cuz guess what, I’ve got better things to do. Seems you are trying to make it your mission to bash tools that clearly everyone chooses to use. So because I disagree with your opinion, you label me as an “Orrinite”. Pretty judgmental, don’t you think. Your agenda is quite clear, sad, very sad. More than happy to sit on the sidelines til the four months or so left. In the meantime I’m expanding my mind with great books and cds and you, well, your blogging negative crap. If that makes you happy.
October 11th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Maxwell Smart #303,
What prices? I have seen the reduction of PV values. —- The new products are much less than similar previous new products, and I already commented on the SX syrup price reduction. Try to keep up, Max. Check with agent 99 if you get confused, you can talk to her in your shoe phone.
But Tex, if you actually read my comments, an IBO still can’t make a profit selling products. —- Too bad you were wrong.
And Tex, I told you this before; making a profit is what makes a business. Your knee-jerk reactions, pedestrian analysis, and petty personal attacks are droll and a waste of time. —- I agree making a profit is what counts, that’s why the tool scam is the biggest problem we have.
Tex, I agree with you this is another meaningless set of promises. Yes, I have Googled UK and Amway. It is surprising what a governmental investigation can produce. It is also important to note, Tex that in the UK, Amway has let IBOs who wish to leave leave. —- You can leave as well, you just have to wait at least 6 months before you get involved in a competing MLM. I assume the UK IBO’s have similar rules.
I think that a governmental investigation here would do wonders as well. All of these “changes” have been brought about by the courageous legal action by Orrin et al. —- Orrin has nothing to do with it, the DTI action started way before he was terminated, and got a lot more attention from the FTC than Orrin would hope to in his wettest dream.
Quixtar/Amway relishes arbitration because it is behind closed doors and their massive resources can crush any IBO. The Team’s total resources do not equal the annual legal expenses of Amway. The American Constitution provides for public trials to be decided by peers. Amway doesn’t — some “American Way”. —- I agree with you on this point, I would much prefer the action be taken in a court. Keeps Amway more honest, and gives us much more tool scam information, although we already have plenty.
Tex, Tex, Tex. Obviously you are not familiar with national advertising rates. A couple of monthly ads and one or two national TV spots is all $12 million will buy — not really a blitz. —- We’ll see how far it goes.
Tide alone has over a billion dollar advertising budget and P&G aren’t even blitzing Tide. —- Which you pay for when you buy Tide.
No Tex, Quixtar/Amway is missing a zero to make even hope to make an effective introduction to the national public, much less compete with the likes of P&G. —- You forget that P&G doesn’t have IBO’s to supplement the advertising.
I believe that XS is on its way out because they are all but excluded in this campaign and that their line of products are systematically being replaced — or at least the profitable ones. See Tex, the concept of profit applies here as well. —- XS is already selling well, why advertise it? Which ones are being replaced, they just came out with a new flavor, Peach Tea flavor. You former IBO’s are really getting on my nerves, thinking you know what’s going on.
Tex, what are you talking about? I know there is more than a single product, and they’re being replaced. —- Then why use the example of buying a huge amount of a single product, Max? Check that shoe again, agent 99 wants you, I think she wants to tell you to put it in your mouth.
Oh, and the sarcastic “genius” comment — since your wrong, it comes across as childish. —- Speaking of genius, it’s “you’re wrong”, which you are….again. Good job, nothing quite like consistency, especially when you need it most.
So Tex, as the Administrator says, “Easy, easy.” You get too emotional and lashing out at people. Check your facts and try not to obfuscate the truth. —- Admin hasn’t told me that in a while, I’m the one with the facts, not you. Take a pill, Max.
October 11th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
Jester311 #304,
It could be much later for Orrin than next February.
Also, your “peaceful departure” is my “wanted to break even more rules”.
Sounds like Orrin didn’t think this through very well. Or he did, and he didn’t care about his IBO’s.
Utah #305,
When are you going to stop lying about a customer being able to buy something from Quixtar without the volume going to an IBO?
Chris #307,
You are still confused. Quixtar will take Orrin and Co. into arbitration, whether they want to go there or not, for the damage their “illegal pyramid” lawsuit and various web sites have caused. It’s no longer Orrin’s decision whether he will be subject to arbitration.
October 11th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Hey everyone, I think we should all applaud Team Mex for even attempting to blog on an english website, when it is apparently not his first language. What a low blow Tex. You wouldn’t have the courage to get on a website of your second language (if you speak one) and blog. I am proud of you Team Mex!!!! Keep on going even when border bullies (like Tex) try to pull you down.
Amen, qreilly #250 That was awesome.
Tex, do you know Lance Smith, because I have been in his home before, and “oh no you dien’t”
even just insult him. And don’t even think about correcting my spelling. I am a melancholy too.
Just heard that Launching a Leadership Revolution is now 14th on NY Times best sellers list. Corporate America loves it!
October 11th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
NOW TEX
ARE YOU FIGHTING??
READ DALE CARNEGIE BOOK,IF YOU KNOW HOW..
TEX REMEMBER THE YOU ARE EMPLOYED OF SCAMWAY!!
TAKE CARE YOU JOB!!!
CRYBABY!!!(:
October 11th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
Tex should start his own business i would follow I mean he is more of a leader than chris or orrin so YAH I am in!!
TEAM MEMBERS should not be blogging but swinging your sowrds in the battle going to a million babey!!
October 11th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
Tex -
Blah, Blah, Blah.
your all wrong here. I don’t know where you are getting your facts, but aside from a few meaningless and trivial price changes, they don’t exist.
Tex, your ten-gallon hat is full of hot air, “Easy, easy” boy. Your lashing out again with trival information and a whole lot of personal attacks.
Actually Tex, you are wrong as usual. In the UK they are letting them go — no strings attached. Again, when you’re under a government investigation, you tend to do what is right. So, Tex, wake up. Count to ten and take a deep breath, recheck your facts and stop with the personal attacks. Personal attacks are for the weak minded and I know you don’t want us to know that about you.
Oh by the way, 99 is doing well and loving it.
October 11th, 2007 at 6:00 pm
Quixtar/Amway is pulling a classic “Get Smart” scene:
Quixtar: Would you believe you can retail these products and make a profit? Believe it — make a profit?
IBOs: We find that hard to believe.
Quixtar: Would you believe you can retail these products and breakeven? Believe it — breakeven?
IBOs: We find that hard to believe.
Quixtar: How about losing your shirt?
October 11th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
To All Team Members;
It’s OVER! I have been reading this stuff all during the fiasco of this lawsuit. In addition, I live in Grand Rapids and got to see a lot of it up close and personal.
The judge dismissed with rejudice. TEAM cannot refile on this point …EVER! If you are still a TEAM loyalist….why are you still here? As Ferris said at the end of the movie, Why are you still here? It’s over…Go Home.
It no longer matters what you want to say about it or spion about it…IT”S OVER.
We really don’t care about you next great thing. This is a place for IBO dsicussion. It is time for all of us to log off and move on. The TEAM leaders have. You have heard barely a peep from them since this toal defeat. Some may wish to spin it differently, but it IS nothing more than a total defeat.
Good-bye and God Bless those who wish to stay with TEAM. Enjoy your 6 month vacation, but this issue is dead…period.
October 11th, 2007 at 6:50 pm
Completely off-topic, but I found this on another blog. I first saw clockwise, but by moving my finger in a counter-clockwise direction, could make her spin in that direction. Sometimes she would appear to change on her own. It is fun to do it as a group, as some see one direction, the others the opposite direction, and then random people see her changing directions at different times. Quite fascinating.
It may explain some of the reason why we can’t seem to “connect” on blogs and in other situations at times.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22556281-661,00.html
October 11th, 2007 at 6:58 pm
#302 Tex
Can you just accept you are a jerk and a pain?
You love to distort anything you can. I am NOT interested in Market America based on what I know, nor was I promoting an other MLM. I was calling someone else on a rumor they started based on a blog post they read. Based on current rules I would have to wait at least til July of next year before I would even look. I for one would suggest that Q/A get rid of you, based on your posts. Unfortunately they won’t, but I understand why you are band other places.
October 11th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
TMR,
Please note that any posts here by those affiliated with TEAM are typically in RESPONSE to a topic initiated by this blog and/or negative comments, mostly by Tex, regarding the TEAM leadership.
For the record, it is hardly OVER. The battle will continue in arbitration. Only the lawsuit in California is over. Although, I agree that the plaintiffs in the suit likely have a snowball’s chance in hell getting any kind of win in the heavily biased arbitration process. But, most of us are just waiting patiently anyway.
October 11th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
tex, answer the question, coward
October 11th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
#310 Tex,
I didn’t say they wouldn’t give anyone the PV/BV for the sale, but they simplynuturlite website was set up with the default for directly ordering product someone that didn’t even know an IBO. That is the website that is being advertised directly. I don’t think that is a good thing. You can disagree, but where I think you should be banned off this site, is because your restate what people say in a twisted way. You don’t have any friends here or anywhere you show up.
Go back to Texas.
October 11th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
Fuddman #313,
FYI, I already have my own business. From what I’ve seen, you would be quite a project. But hey, hope springs eternal, right? If we could get you to Platinum and above, who couldn’t do it?
TEAM MEMBERS should not be blogging but swinging your dictionaries, and learning how to spell the big words, like “swords”.
By the way, I’m not sure if you’ll make many friends, let alone a million, by swinging anything, especially your “sowrds”.
I have to give Orrin credit for cleverly turning the business into a “rebellion”, complete with swords, to get the testosterone jacked up to the point the mind is numbed to the point of not being capable of thinking.
Maxwell Smart #314/5,
How do you know the UK has let them go without a period of waiting? Got any proof to support that statement?
Whatever you do, don’t read the posts from IBO’s who already retail, you’d be eating crow for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
TMR #316,
Well said, but they won’t go until they get orders from Orrin and his magical singing “sowrd”. Orrin, where are you when we need you?
Utah #318,
No, but I can accept you are a jerk and a pain.
I love to straighten out anything I can. Okay, okay, you’re not interested in Market America, wink, nod. You can start looking right now, you just can’t join. Why would Q want to get rid of someone as entertaining (and highly paid) as me?
Plus, I’m not interested in being “band”, I don’t play a musical instrument, I just get a kick out of playing with Orrinites. That’s the name of that tune.
October 11th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Tex #281, AEM #282, And Utah #295
Thanks for the info. From the very beginning I just wanted some basic information, but every time I ask questions I either get things like, “What if, hypothetically, the team started out with sports nutrition products” or “what if 5 deep in two legs paid $100 and 10 & 10 was $200…” or a bashing of Quixtar. I would prefer the response you are getting Utah to that stuff.
I guess I’m kind of doing the same thing with the speculation, just trying to find out something with teeth.
My upline never said much about the money up or down. They always stuck with that one 50,50,25 example. The person they are talking about is a solid Sapphire. They said the team money is split into two non-profits. One is the tools. The other is get togethers. But the 50,50,25 example included money from both.
They didn’t talk money from the team -vs- money from Quixtar, but based on how they taught me to show the plan prior to the move it sounded about the same. They were showing the plan saying two solid legs, building by Power Player, would be about $75,000 a year and three legs would be $100,000 to $150,000. 50,50,25 would be $120,000.
When I make this next comment it’s not a generalization towards the team, but more a comment on my upline through Diamond, but I got the impression they were intentionally spinning some things so people wouldn’t question anything. That they would go on blind faith with no questions asked. Then when questions were asked the attitude was kind of like “your an idiot for not blindly following and actually trying to gather information.” It was not a good transitional experience.
October 11th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
Allen D. Tullos, you’ve got to offer up something more than a plain old insult. Care to resubmit with more meat on the bone
October 11th, 2007 at 10:30 pm
Tex, corporate communications, probably one and the same , but just in case not, Tex, why will you not directly state your occupation???
October 11th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
Tex:
State your occupation.
October 11th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
whatever #319,
TEAM leadership? There’s an oxymoron.
Yeah, I can’t wait until the arbitration to decide Orrin and Co. have to wait out another year, then all of you can be his upline, and you can scam him for tool profit.
Allen #320,
Which question, jerk?
Utah #321,
Do you that people since the 1960’s could see an Amway advertisement in a magazine or a Paul Harvey radio address, call Amway on the telephone and order a product, without having to know an IBO? Take your conspiracy TEAM thinking and hit the road. I think you should be banned from the human race, or at least don’t have any kids, we don’t need you in the gene pool. There are plenty of people on this site and other sites who agree with me. Even if there weren’t, it wouldn’t matter, the facts are the facts. Go back to Utah.
freedom #323,
The other purchases you didn’t include are the multiple CD’s (extras for “leadership” and “advanced” training, contacting, follow up materials, etc.) and voice mail. On another blog, an IBO proudly claimed their upline Diamond (claimed he was a large one) made $20,000/month from their voice mail, and he later adjusted it to $6,000/month.
The upline definitely looks for those with blind faith, because those kinds of people don’t ask questions, which is exactly what the upline wants. I can remember asking some pretty basic questions and making comments (unrelated to the tool scam), and getting the blankest stares you can imagine, because I asked questions “off script”. There was also an instance where a VERY large pin “disappeared”, and the next time we met there wasn’t a single mention of them. It was as if they never existed. It was surreal.
Allen #325,
The reason I don’t tell you my occupation/profession/job is because:
1. It doesn’t change the facts
2. It is none of your business
3. It’s not about me, it’s about the tool scam
4. I don’t like you.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:28 am
#317 Tex,
Wow, that is pretty wild. I’m a counterclockwiser.
That’d be a good question to ask everyone, so that we all knew the type of person we are talking to. To ask, “Hey are you clock or counter-clock?”
————————————————
#315 Maxwell Smart
I retail. I sell stuff. At suggested retail price. I make a profit retailing. Search my name on this Blog as well as the OZ Blog for details on what and how I sell. And while you’re looking around, you’ll find other IBOs who retail. There are quite a few of us who make a profit retailing.
The secret? We sell more than just a dream to be rich and free. We sell actual, tangible product.
How revolutionary!
———————————————–
#325 Allen
#326 Mary Ann,
Your question says more of your thoughts of Alticor/Amway/Quixtar than it does of Tex.
By asking that question, you are saying that the Corp is not being transparent and honest. You are implying that they have corporate plants on these blogs.
If you’ve read any of Tex’s comments over at OZ, you’d know that the guy doesn’t work for the Corp, because of all the grief he’s given the employees over there.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:09 am
C’MON PEOPLE STOP BLOGGIN SO MUCH AND START SHOWING SUM PLANS!!!!!!!
October 12th, 2007 at 10:49 am
Bridgett #329,
Were you able to get her to turn the other way? I was able to easier by tilting my laptop to the side for a bit (you may want to tilt your head if using a large monitor). Even though you are a counter-clockwiser (or anti-clockwise for our Aussie/UK friends), we seem to understand the facts with striking similarity. That makes me feel even more confident (if that was possible) we are on the right track with the tool scam.
It looks like Maxwell Smart….isn’t.
I’m sure Allen and Mary Jane… I mean Ann, Mary Ann, think that is just part of the “vast right with the facts conspiracy”. I put that stuff on OZ (and here, by the way) to make it look good, right guys?
Or, maybe it’s my evil twin IBO, who uses the same handle, but is really part of the “Orrin side” and disrupting my American Way efforts. How do you tell us apart? I am known as Agent 942, while my evil twin is known as Agent 111111111111111111111111111111111111.
Just Go, TEAM.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:51 am
BC #329,
Sum plans? As I have explained, I would be happy to, but it just doesn’t add up right now.
October 12th, 2007 at 11:19 am
Tex,
The term “Team leadership” seems like an oxymoron to you because you don’t understand it as well as you think you do.
You seem to find it amusing that people on here make certain assumptions about you based upon your comments. I don’t know whether you are a corporate plant on here or not, and frankly I don’t care. But just as others probably shouldn’t make assumptions about your intentions, since they don’t really know you, you shouldn’t make assumptions about the intentions of a group of men you don’t know.
October 12th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
whatever #332,
I understand better than you wished I did. What you call “leadership” I call “tool scam”. Simple as that.
The difference is I’m not scamming anyone. I find it “amusing” you can’t/won’t distinguish this critical difference between me and the lying cowardly “kingpins”. I know them well enough to know I don’t want to associate with them any more than I have to. That’s why I’m happy to be “banned” from the IBOAI blog, which is crawling with them, and why Ron Hale tucked tail and ran when the simple question regarding how much tool scam money he made was asked.
I’m not like you, I don’t need someone to hit me in the forehead with a 2×4 before I get the big picture. But then again, your name doesn’t exactly imply deep thinking, whatever.
Plus, I am a “clock-wise” kind of guy, so it comes naturally.
October 12th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Tex,
I guess that only one question remains. If Team ( or any other BSM supplier ) gives a full and complete accounting upon talking to a prospect of where ALL money comes from…including the approx amount available from any e commerce biz, as WELL as tool profits, would that make this a non issue for you ?
October 12th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
ps…and that assumes the prospect is made aware of EXACTLY how much volume and/or building has to be done to get into “profit sharing” in both areas …correct me if that is not what has tripped your trigger all along
October 12th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Utah:
If you were taught that you never have to retail, how exactly is that not a pyramid scam that depends on the recruitment of others into it in order for those already in to make money? Pyramids are easy to detect - if the lowest person in it cannot make any money without recruiting others in, it is a pyramid. Hence, no retailing = pyramid. Kind of sounds like the self-consumption of motivational materials that are never retailed, doesn’t it?
October 12th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
GirlPower,
You are right. When you said, “Quixtar is the opportunity” it all made sense. I thought, “How could I have not realized it before?” YES, Quixtar is the opportunity. A handful of people ARE becoming billionaires at the hand of this opportunity. Through the sweat, blood, and tears of IBO’s there are those who are truly at the top making the most of their opportunity. Yes, they toss scraps down to the IBO’s and promise larger scraps down the road…now, having come to a more complete fuller understanding of this I feel my time would be served elsewhere. Do I feel deceived? Misled? Unguided? Yes, actually I do. By the same people steering THEIR opportunity in a direction I didn’t have a say in. Did they ask you, or anyone you know for that matter, who you felt about the name change to AMWAY? You think that is a considerable change to your “company”? How do you start the conversation with your downline who you told this was not AMWAY? I have yet to hear a response about that. Because now you have to be an apologist for AMWAY and come up with a good reason for the change.
Yes, it is quite an opportunity. Too bad it will never be that for you. I’m sorry, you just don’t have the right last name.
October 12th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Moderator, I found this on the freetheibo blog (you know, the one I am “banned” from?), can you confirm or deny it?
Where we are today — I just heard somewhere that Quixtar has filed a lawsuit in Ottawa County, Michigan against John Doe #1 through John Doe #30. It seems they are going after all these John Does who have put up various blogs, including this one, for monetary damages!! Rumor has it they have subpeonaed (sp?) Google and some other blog hosts in an attempt to find the real culprits.
An interesting point–Quixtar apparantly left off www.amquix.info and www.webraw.com, as well as some other notable negative blogs and websites. Could it be they are just going after pro-Team blogs??
Should be interesting to see how Google et al responds.
October 12th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
My inlaws are on the Team, and they keep telling me to join because of this new idea they have coming from the “round table”, is meijer’s is going to be affiliated? that would be quite interesting.. but no thanks i would rather drive 3 miles to the one and enjoy the scenery. LOL
October 12th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
#332 whatever,
There’s a difference between not knowing the intentions of an unknown person typing on a blog, and not knowing the intentions of a well-known group of men who sue an almost 50-year old corporation, from which they have earned millions of dollars, claiming it’s an illegal business.
One can make an educated guess as to the intentions of these men based on their very public actions.
October 12th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
Tex –
As the Administrator has told you: “Easy easy”. Cut out the personal attacks and let’s just stick to facts and issues.
October 12th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Those IBOs who retail, I congratulate your efforts. You’re the one in a million IBOs that makes a profit retailing.
The facts are that only 3.4% of the goods are even sold as retail, many of which do not return a profit, and the average active IBO only makes $115 per month including the rebate on their own purchases. It would be hard to make a living on that and can you really call it a viable business?
The issue here is that one can sell some stuff and eek out a marginal profit when the seller’s product cost is compared to the buyer’s price; however, in business there are ancillary costs associated with running a business such as marketing supplies, taxes, etc.
Don’t feel bad, it is a common mistake made by many business owners. This is supported by the fact that 90% of businesses do not make it to their fifth anniversary.
October 12th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Rico #337
“How do you start the conversation with your downline who you told this was not AMWAY? I have yet to hear a response about that.”
Obviously it is too late now, but you should have never been telling people “this was not Amway.” Amway & Quixtar are part of the same parent company, and, in a sense, are the same (same products, basic business model, etc).
I’m guessing if you had already told your downline that this was not Amway and are trying to explain the name change - go with the truth and explain the relationship between Amway & Quixtar and that the decision has been made to change the name back.
I’m guessing you’re dealing with older people since most of my downline IBOs had never even heard of Amway (or had a similar response as, “Oh yeah - my family used SA8 when we were growing up,” or “Oh yeah - my mom uses your make-up.” Maybe it’s just my generation, but I have almost no resistance to the Amway or Quixtar name at all . . . if I have any similar resistance - it is to MLMs in general.
Anyway — back to the Amway name change — you might start by adjusting your attitude in a way to resonate pride in Amway . . . this is a business that has been around for almost half a century. Two of our owners have served as chairmen of the National (or is it international?) Better Business Bureau; we are members of the BBB, the Direct Selling Association, etc. We were the first to have high quality, pharmacutical grade manufacturing in the vitamin industry. We have created more millionaires than any other company. Focus on the positive. I hope that helps. Good luck!!
October 12th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
dannie #334/5,
Yep. I think most of the prospects, and exisiting IBO’s for that matter, would force the prices downward. We don’t need exact figures, ball park is good enough.
BK #336,
Tools are different. As Q rules department explained to me a few months ago, the IBO’s are considered retail customers, so there are sales/profits being made, by the upline. Usually, this is Platinum and above. TIF wanted to pay all IBO’s for tools, which is why they were booted, because this is an illegal pyramid. TEAM payed below Platinum, but most IBO’s were still considered retail customers.
It appears part of the motivation Q has to not disclose the magnitude of tool profits (even though it is stated in the application and rules profits are made) is to give the appearance the Q profit is the main focus, not tool profits. However, as the magnitude of the tool profits is becoming more and more well known, Q must abandon this position, because it is no longer defendable. Q has still NOT answered the question whether they instructed the upline to not disclose tool profits. Q needs to come clean on this issue.
Rico #337,
Q didn’t mislead you, your upline did. If your upline wasn’t making money from Q, they lied when they showed you the plan.
The change back to Amway will be a great change, as the corp will have to clean up the tool scam in order to survive in the U.S., because of the negative name recognition the word Amway has.
You shouldn’t have lied to your downline in the first place. You should have told them Quixtar came from Amway for the North American market, and now it is going back. I can’t help you too much if you lied to your downline about this. Perhaps you should sit them down and give them a history lesson, and those who don’t walk out are your “new” downline.
If the Q money isn’t enough for you, go away.
Bala #339,
Grocery stores run on very small margins, there won’t be much profit to be made there. Wait a second, Orrin doesn’t care about the product profit, he makes most of his big bucks on the tools, so never mind. That is a VERY good option after all. Orrin will lead his army of sword carrying followers down the vegetable aisle, cutting down any cucumber that stands in his way….Onward, Orrin Soldiers, Marching as to War, cutting down the cucumbers, hey let’s hack some more!
Bridgett #340,
That’s what I meant to say. Thanks.
Maxwell Smart #341/2,
You will get pretty quiet on this blog if you have to stick to the facts.
They are also the one in a million IBOs that is taught retailing is required.
The facts are that only 3.4% of the goods are even sold as retail, and that is because many LOS/LOA’s teach retailing is not required.
How can you expect to return a profit if 999,999 in a million don’t even try?
You are misusing the $115/month amount. Go read what this means and post it here, then we’ll talk about it again.
Q never said you have to retail ONLY. In fact, the requirements are quite low, which enables IBO’s to have mostly a network business if they desire.
Don’t feel bad, it is a common mistake made by many business owners. This is supported by the fact that Orrin is gone.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
#342 Maxwell Smart
1) The only place where I’ve seen the 3.4% figure is in the bogus lawsuit. I am not saying that it’s not accurate. However, the only place I’ve seen it referenced is in something (the lawsuit) that is filled with inaccuracies.
2) Profit can be made retailing IF people retail. The problem is, people are not retailing. Not because it can’t be done, but because that’s not the business model most IBOs have been shown.
They’ve been shown the “switch your shopping habits and teach others to do the same” business model.
AKA the “Self-Consumption” Plan.
It’s not the fault of the products. It’s the fault of the leadership of many Lines of Sponsorships. The money those leaders make in the Quixtar business from their downline is based on BV–whether it’s your customers’ BV or your personal use BV. Doesn’t matter.
So they’ve been teaching 100% loyalty in regards to personal use. “Switch your whole house over,” they teach. So as a result, a ton of BV gets generated, and no one “needs” to retail.
So retail hasn’t been taught or emphasized. And when it has been taught, it’s taught as a way to pay for the “System”.
Hence, no bottom-line profit is really made if you turn right back around, take that retail profit, and “invest it back in to your business.”
October 12th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
#342 Maxwell Smart (cont.)
3) Do I think that some of the products are priced higher than what I personally would pay for them? Absolutely. Does it mean that they can’t be retailed? Absolutely not.
Example: I think it’s ridiculous to pay five bucks for a cup of coffee. But considering that Starbucks does 8 BILLION dollars a year, my personal shopping habits aren’t that important in the grand scheme of things, are they?
————————————
4) The Corp is aware of the PROBLEM that people are not retailing. So they’ve introduced products recently, that makes retailing a piece-of-cake, even for those opposed to it, like I used to be.
5) Maxwell “Smart”, I don’t know who you are—IBO or not. If you are an IBO, you are very much lacking any credibility, since you do not seem, based on your comments, to have any product knowledge, nor understand the QUIXTAR Compensation Plan.
Evidence: Your math in your #258 comment massively off as well as being a dumb example.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:44 pm
Bridgett,
“There’s a difference between not knowing the intentions of an unknown person typing on a blog, and not knowing the intentions of a well-known group of men who sue an almost 50-year old corporation, from which they have earned millions of dollars, claiming it’s an illegal business.
One can make an educated guess as to the intentions of these men based on their very public actions.”
Your point is valid to an extent, but what I hear you saying is that our ability to draw inferences as to someone’s subjective intent increases based upon the amount of behavior we are able to personally observe. If this is what you are saying, my point remains the same.
I can only base my opinion of Tex, and you for that matter, upon a limited exposure to your comments here. I’m sure that outside of this anonymous setting there are many that could more accurately assess the motives and intentions of Tex’s and your actions. Those assessments would likely be based upon a substantial history (body of work) rather than a snap-shot of the issues being discussed here.
Likewise, all I am saying is that there is a substantial history of events that has resulted in the situation as it exists today. Those that have known certain parties involved in the situation for a long time are in a better position to assess the subjective intent of those parties than those that only know of the most recent events.
I know it makes it easier for people to think of everything in terms of black and white, but unfortunately, my experience is that most of the reality of this world exists in various shades of gray.
Finally, I have no problem with those that criticize the way things have been handled by either side of this mess. I simply don’t appreciate the character attacks based upon speculation and assumption.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
NL #343,
I think it was the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, not the BBB.
I don’t think the number of millionaires is more than speculation.
Let’s be proud and excited, but let’s be accurate as well. Exagerrating is one of our problems.
Also, the Orrinites don’t have to worry about the name change, most of them didn’t know they were in Quixtar to begin with, they thought they were with TEAM.
Bridgett 345/6,
Bravo. Take a bow.
whatever #347,
I didn’t have to assume Orrin broke many rules and wanted to break more on his way out the door. I saw the Opens and a Seminar, I saw his “peace plan”.
I don’t have to assume he wanted to have Quixtar ruled an illegal pyramid, because he didn’t teach retailing. I saw his lawsuit, and I saw retail not being taught.
None of the above has anything to do with either speculation or assumption, it has to do with the facts, all supplied by Orrin and TEAM.
Take a long walk off a short pier.
October 12th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Tex –
You poor fellow, it is not that some LOS’s teach that retailing is not required. That reasoning is flawed at best. Let me explain what the 3.4% means.
Individuals join their support team and become IBOs to build a business; and thus, they seek to make money. You and I are on the same page here — right?
With over a million IBOs, we have a statistically significant sample size (I hope this doesn’t go over your head). The primary economic assumption is that rational people will act in a way that they perceive will give them, in present value, the most happiness or the least sadness. (I know this is a little much for you but Tex, you got to get through this if you’re going to understand.) This is automatic. People act this way naturally; there are no overt calculations.
With the million plus IBOs (or three million according to Mr. DeVos on the webcast), if the majority of IBOs are rational, and I am assuming they are, then economic theory demands that there would be significant retailing regardless of what is taught. We both agree that IBOs are seeking to make money. Then it can only make sense that if there were money in retailing, IBOs would do it whether or not they are building the networking side of the business. Instead of getting on average $115 per month for active IBOs including rebates. This number is supplied by Quixtar/Amway and may overstate the true amount just as the unemployment figures understate the true unemployment because people just give up looking for jobs.
Tex, Tex, Tex (oh and you too, Bridget), there is no way on God’s green earth can 3.4% be understood as meaningful.
Retailing in Quixtar with the current price structure hasn’t worked. Free enterprise has spoken. You know, the American way.
October 12th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Tex #348
Thank you!!! I was in a hurry and didn’t double check myself. I apologize. Yes, I believe it was the US Chamber of Commerce. The number of millionaires produced isn’t really important, but I think they actually have numbers on that. Not really motivated to find out, so I agree - it should be left out. This is still a wonderful business opportunity whether you call it Amway or Quixtar!
October 12th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
Bridget -
Obviously, you are not aware of the large number of 50-year-old companies that have gone out of business or filed bankruptcy in the last decade. Many of them were larger that Quixtar/Amway.
It is not the size of a company or the age, but it’s ability to manage itself in the market.
Quixtar/Amway was a viable business opportunity in the past. The model works. It is just Quixtar/Amway’s current execution that is so crushing to me and other IBOs.
To keep it short, Starbucks doesn’t sell just coffee for four dollars. Just like a Ferrari and Kia don’t sell for the same price. I don’t see, and the numbers prove me out, that many of the Quixtar/Amway products have not garnered a premium from the market.
Good luck with your business.
October 12th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
#349 Maxwell “Smart”
The fact that you use the word “rebates”, explains a lot.
From my experience, I was taught to sponsor EVERYONE. Even if someone just wanted to SOLEY buy the products, I was taught to get them as an IBO. The “fear of loss” tactic was used in this scenario:
Oh, if they are just a customer, then some other IBO could come along and steal them from you! But if they are in your downline, then they’re “untouchable”.
So when you say that “IBOs are seeking to make money,” that is not true. A healthy chunk of IBOs are IBOs for the sole purpose to use the products and have absolutely no intention of building a busines–retailing, sponsoring, or both.
Read the definition of “active” for your little $115/month “disclaimer” and you know that it’s misleading.
Do you know where to find that definition? It’s on the OFFICIAL Quixtar IBO Comp Plan. Have you ever seen it?
http://www.quixtar.com/documents/iwov/vis/010-en/pdf/IBO%20Support/BusForms/SA4400.pdf
Top of page 4.
October 12th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
Maxwell Smart #349,
You poor fellow, it is that most LOS’s teach retailing is not required. That reasoning is exactly correct at worst. Let me explain what the 3.4% means.
Individuals join their support team and become IBOs to build a business; and thus, they seek to make money. You and I are on the same page here — right?
With over a million IBOs, we have a statistically significant sample size (I hope this doesn’t go over your head). The primary economic assumption is that rational people will act in a way that they perceive will give them, in present value, the most happiness or the least sadness. (I know this is a little much for you but Max, you got to get through this if you’re going to understand.) This is automatic. People act this way naturally; there are no overt calculations.
With the million plus IBOs (or three million worldwide according to Mr. DeVos on the webcast), if the majority of IBOs are rational, and I am assuming they are, then economic theory demands that there would be significant retailing, but first they must be taught, as most people have a natural aversion to selling regardless of what is taught. We both agree that IBOs are seeking to make money. Then it can only make sense that if there were money in retailing, IBOs would do it only if it was taught in a meaningful manner, whether or not they are building the networking side of the business. Instead of getting on average $115 per month for active IBOs including rebates. This number is supplied by Quixtar/Amway and may understate the true amount because many IBO’s qualify as “active” when they really have done very little.
Max, Max, Max (oh and you too, the other Orrinites), there is no way on God’s green earth can 3.4% be understood as meaningful.
Retailing in Quixtar with the current upline lack of teaching structure hasn’t worked. The tool scam has spoken. You know, the upline tool scams?
October 12th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
NL #350,
You’re welcome, and I agree with your other points.
Maxwell Smart #351,
What do you expect, with the tool scam? Many can’t break even until they get to Platinum, if that. That means dozens and dozens of their downline are operating at a net loss, largely because of the tool scam, which has also led to lack of retail, because there isn’t enough time left to retail and the upline doesn’t make nearly as much money on retail as they do the tools.
Bridgett #352,
Have you noticed the average IBO dollar amounts are no longer in the QBOB? I thought this was an FTC requirement, I wonder how they were able to remove it?
Moderator, can you help with this question?
October 12th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Tex,
Look on Page 6 of the QBOB. Have a good day!
October 12th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
Tex,
Again, I must say you lack any credibility. You have said retailing isn’t really a big deal, more a formality than anything. Yet you complain that you haven’t seen retailing taught. Did you ever think that maybe less emphasis was put on teaching retailing because it simply couldn’t be done? If retailing isn’t that important, why complain when it isn’t sufficiently taught? If retailing is important, and people building the business the way you consider to be “the right way” should include the teaching of retailing, why is it such a small percentage of the overall sales? If “teaching” more retailing is all that is required to increase the percentage, surely SOMEONE can do it….why not you? Oh wait, you are an excuse factory when it comes to why you are a career critic rather than a successful business builder.
Can you remind me again exactly what the many rules broken by Orrin were? I have heard a lot of generalized statements, but don’t recall references to specific rule violations.
October 12th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
#354 Tex
I did notice that.
The purpose of the QBOB is to ensure people know that are signing up in Quixtar (and eventually Amway) and HOW money is made–retailing and sponsoring.
As Robin said over at OZ on 8-14, “And unlike the SA4400 it is not a boring, number-filled, disclosure-laden document that makes prospects’ eyes glaze over. Instead, it is colorful, marketing-oriented, and designed to make the Quixtar business opportunity as appealing as possible.”
Page 14, under the BSM part, does mention “the Quixtar IBO Compensation Plan”.
So…that would mean that there is a Quixtar IBO Compensation Plan (which is the SA4400), but we are not required to show it to prospects.
Kind of leaves it up to each individual (or each individual LOS) to “do their own thing”, huh?
Interesting…
But I DO appreciate the look and simplicity of the QBOB.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
You guys don’t get it.
On one hand you say Quixtar is a sister company to Amway under the same umbrella company. Then you say, “You should have told them the truth and said it WAS Amway” all along. So Amway was a sister company to herself? Give me a break. It WAS a separate company. Hey, Quixtar reps were at functions where on stage they talked about this NOT being Amway. They KNEW that we were being told that. So…who did the misleading?
October 12th, 2007 at 10:34 pm
#351 Maxwell Smart
Your comments state very little facts.
And the facts that you do state (like your #258 comment of how many cases of the Simply Nutrilite Antioxidant Juice equal 7,500 PV—it’s over a 1,000, by the way)are WRONG.
You state your loooong wordy opinions.
And since you have no credibility, your opinions are meaningless, as far as I’m concerned.
October 13th, 2007 at 12:03 am
Dwight #355,
What are you referring to on page 6?
whatever #356,
I don’t lack credibility, you lack critical thinking skills.
I have said for some time the amount of retailing should be left up to each IBO, but needs to be emphasized to ensure the IBO’s have enough training to reach the minimum criteria. If a particular IBO wants a large retail business, this should be supported. If they want a small retail business, this should be supported. The main reason retail is not emphasized currently is because customers don’t buy tools. If IBO’s spent time retailing, they wouldn’t get as many IBO’s involved, and the lying cowardly “kingpins” would make less money. Simple economics.
Give up on the rules that were broken, I’ve asked Q for more details and they probably won’t answer until arbitration is over.
Rico #358,
You’re right, it had a different name, but the same LOS/LOA, same pay plan, mostly the same products, etc. It’s not my fault you lied. You sowed, now reap.
Bridgett #359,
His feet probably smell, too.
October 13th, 2007 at 12:06 am
Tex:
Be a man. State your occupation.
October 13th, 2007 at 12:51 am
Mary Ann #361,
Give it up.
October 13th, 2007 at 1:52 am
Tex:
Be a stand up man. State your occupation.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:26 am
Disclaimer: This comment has nothing to do with the California case, TEAM, Quixtar, Amway, or Alticor.
#330 Tex
I was able to turn her the other way, when I brought up two windows and put them side by side.
When her extended legs would match up with each other in the center of the screen, then they’d look like they’d be turning in opposite directions from each other.
After I did that, now I can look at her solo and can sort of spin her this way and that way in mid turn.
(if I focus on the end of her extended leg)
Thanks for showing me another way to waste ten minutes…
By the way, I don’t know if I buy the whole right-brain vs left-brain thing.
And what if you are left-handed?
October 13th, 2007 at 2:34 am
Tex,
I was refering to your post #354. You were responding to Bridgett’s #352. It was about the average numbers. I was just telling you where I found that info.
October 13th, 2007 at 10:01 am
Mary Ann #363,
Take a long walk on a short pier.
Bridgett #364,
That was cool, when I had 2 of them on the screen, I could make them go back and forth very easily. I’m not sure what this has to do with right/left brain either, but it is interesting, and shows how we can initially look at the same thing and see things differently.
Dwight #365,
My QBOB, page 6 has “Growing your business with balance” at the top. There is no mention of average numbers. Are we looking at the same thing?
October 13th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
Tex,
The QBOB has a black box in the upper right corner and a large photo of a young girl in the middle, and has Quixtar Business Opportunity printed over the girls photo. Page 6 it titled The IBO Compensation Plan and on that page mentions the average IBO earnings. There is another brochure that looks about the same but has a large photo of a tree covered paved road, the same girls photo (only smaller) in the center and the black box with Quixtar in it also in the center. I ordered some Choices catalogs and got two of those in each package. That is not the one you give to prospects. That one is geared for someone that has gotten into the business. I never heard them say anything about that one. There is a number on the back of LA3243A. The QBOB that you show to prospects has a number on the back of LA3289A. Quixtar had sent one with the September mailing that had a yellow cover attached that explained how one had to be given to prospects when you STP.
October 13th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Tex #366
“Take a long walk on a short pier.”
I guess that’s an example of your practicing the Golden Rule as you stated you do.
Also,I guess you interprete my simply asking your occupation as an attack on you. You stated many times that you NEVER attack but only react to someone else’s attack upon you.
Tex:
Come on, be a man, state your occupation.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Bridgett, Dwight, Tex, the Canadian QBOB gives average ANNUAL gross income figures. The annual number in my Canadian version of QBOB is $2,172, which one can calculate out to $181 per month. On the US version, looking at the pdf on the US site, they quote the $115 per month number for average income.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Tex,
You said…
“I have said for some time the amount of retailing should be left up to each IBO, but needs to be emphasized to ensure the IBO’s have enough training to reach the minimum criteria. If a particular IBO wants a large retail business, this should be supported. If they want a small retail business, this should be supported. The main reason retail is not emphasized currently is because customers don’t buy tools.”
Please note that you state as if it is fact that the main reason retail is not emphasized is because customers don’t buy tools. In my “opinion” your “opinion” is wrong. In my opinion, there isn’t much retailing because the products are too ridiculously over-priced to retail. Simple economics.
You said….
“I didn’t have to assume Orrin broke many rules and wanted to break more on his way out the door.”
Yet when asked specifically what rules were broken, all you could come up with was…
“Give up on the rules that were broken, I’ve asked Q for more details and they probably won’t answer until arbitration is over.”
If you need “Q” to tell you which rules were broken, and they haven’t done it yet, how is it that you aren’t making assumptions?
October 13th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
Dwight #367,
Thanks, I have both of these and didn’t notice the differences until I put them side by side, as they have similar color schemes, patterns, and size. One is for prospects, the other for new IBO’s. Personally, I think the corp is asking for trouble, if other IBO’s are similarly not paying attention.
Thanks again for straightening me out.
October 13th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Mary Ann #368,
“Take a long walk on a short pier.”
I guess that’s an example of your practicing the Golden Rule as you stated you do. —- No, it is an example of you ignoring my reasons for not answering this question, which can be found at #327. The Golden Rule does not say to allow yourself to be treated like a doormat. Hit the road.
Also,I guess you interprete my simply asking your occupation as an attack on you. You stated many times that you NEVER attack but only react to someone else’s attack upon you. —- Repeatedly asking the same question over and over AFTER I gave my response is an “attack”, although an inept one.
Tex: Come on, be a man, state your occupation.—- Get lost.
October 13th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
whatever #370,
FACT: The reason there isn’t much retailing is because many uplines lie and tell their IBO’s it is not required.
FACT: There are examples of IBO’s having lots of retail volume, some of them on this blog. FACT: As is said in the functions, “if one man can, ANY man can”.
FACT: But first the IBO’s have to be told it is a requirement, and should be taught how to sell as part of the seminars and other training opportunities, as most people don’t have the skill set to sell and are not inclined to sell on their own.
FACT: There is no opinion in the above, it is all facts, based on my personal experience and observations.
FACT: As they say in the law enforcement TV shows and movies (and in real life investigations), “Follow the money”.
I’m not making assumptions about them breaking rules because I saw them break rules in the Opens and a Seminar with my own eyes and ears, and reported the FACTS to Quixtar. I saw the “request” that Orrin made to break more rules on his way out. Would I like to know more details on OTHER rules that were broken, so I don’t make the same mistakes? Yes. But that doesn’t TOTALLY wipe out other evidence, especially the rule violations I saw and heard at official TEAM events.
October 14th, 2007 at 1:04 am
Tex,
You seriously have a problem distinguishing fact from opinion. I’m sure you know that just because someone says it, even if it is in print, it doesn’t necessarily become fact if it isn’t corroborated somehow.
Again, you cite no specific rule. You say you “saw them break rules,” and all I’m asking is for you to specify WHAT rules you saw “them” break…
October 14th, 2007 at 1:32 am
#366 Tex,
I realized that I was NOT looking at the QBOB when I commented. And neither are you in #366. I don’t know who’s idea it was to make two totally separate documents look so similar.
What we were looking at is what new IBOs get after they get registered. The front says, “Building a sucessful business”.
The QBOB, which is also a square-shaped, red, pamphlet, has a bigger picture of the lady, smiling on the cover. And it’s entitled, “The Quixtar Business Opporunity”.
In the QBOB, on page 6, they do mention the $115 figure.
My bad. Sorry for the confusion everyone.
October 14th, 2007 at 1:38 am
Tex:
Are you a man or a mouse? State your occupation.
October 14th, 2007 at 9:51 am
whatever #374,
They didn’t mention the word Quixtar a single time, they gave Orrin and Chris credit for what Q does, and they were essentially silent on retailing. You figure out the rule numbers that were violated, it would do you good to read them at least once.
Bridgett #375,
I agree, see #371.
Moderator, do you understand this issue, and can you follow up and tell us what is being done to correct this problem?
The topic of this thread is “California: Case dismissed”.
October 14th, 2007 at 5:37 pm
Moderator,
I don’t mind you not posting my response to Mary Ann, but I expect you to not post her same question over and over, that I have already responded to.
October 14th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Tex #378: Fair enough.
October 15th, 2007 at 2:22 am
fantastic i can see that the new amway reps and this site represents you to the fullest. thanks keep up the good work with scam-way and for the young people ask you dad what that is.
October 15th, 2007 at 10:15 am
roco #380,
You’re welcome. But I doubt the typical Dad will have a clue how this business works. But if you’re not bright enough to realize that, you probably wouldn’t be a successful IBO, either.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:35 am
Tex,
You poor boy! So dazed and confused! First retailing isn’t important (formality),then you complain retailing wasn’t promoted at the opens??(wrong). Then you’re posting because Orrin is a liar(not), Then you complain about some self developed tools scam! You are obviously a very confused individual! You have no cause, no purpose, no focus!! Facts are facts…Quixtar is scared of what Orrin could do and reacted ridiculously! Quixtar turned their famous overzealous legal team loose and did not use good judgement! Orrin did nothing wrong! Chris did nothing wrong! Ditto for Billy, Chuck, Tim and all of the rest of the leaders what didn’t want to subject their people to a stupid corporate name change. Amway…let’s just call it Failures International or maybe Scams for North America??? Now the legal dorks of Amway are sueing the bloggers….. beautiful PR job! Registration will be down 75% this year minimum!
October 16th, 2007 at 11:17 am
Amway realist #382,
You poor boy! So dazed and confused! Where did I say retailing isn’t important?
Retailing wasn’t promoted at the opens, I was there for several of them.
Then I’m posting because Orrin is a liar, because he is. And a coward as well.
Then I complain about the tool scam, because there are plenty of facts available to prove it!
You are obviously a very confused individual!
You have no cause, no purpose, no focus!!
Facts are facts…Orrin is scared of what Quixtar could do and reacted ridiculously!
Orrin turned his infamous overzealous legal team loose and did not use good judgement!
Quixtar did nothing wrong! Orrin, Chris did wrong! Ditto for Billy, Chuck, Tim and all of the rest of the leaders what didn’t want to subject their tool scam to less profit and couldn’t handle a simple corporate name change.
TEAM…let’s just call it Failures International or maybe Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward and Co. Scam for North America??? Now the legal team of Q is enforcing the court order, and Orrin and Co. are running scared, … beautiful PR job! Registration will be up 75% next year minimum!
October 16th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
Tex,
Even you can’t be delusional enough to think Amway registration will be up 75% next year. LOL…I’m still laughing….
Oh, and you may disagree with the decisions made by Orrin, Chris, and others, but you are wacked if you think they are liars and cowards. They are out there fighting for something they believe in…you are where? Oh yeah, hidden behind some anonymous nickname on a blog.
October 16th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
whatever #384,
Why not, if the tool scam problem is fixed? I may be too low with the estimate. Have you checked out the new UK post?
“Orrin, Chris, and others” are fighting for their tool scam dollars, just like the UK Diamonds who got wacked. That’s right, I’m behind a keyboard, and Orrin is behind closed doors, getting wacked by arbitration, and getting wacked in court, pleading for mercy. I am happy to be me and not Orrin. Never mind that thumping sound in the background, it’s just Orrin and Co. getting wacked.
October 16th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Tex,
I’ll tell you why not….PRICES!!! Keep dreaming though.
Orrin, Chris, and others are only behind closed doors in arbitration because thats where the “cowardly kingpin corporation” wanted to hide it’s dirty laundry. That thumping sound is probably just you hitting your head against the wall. With those prices, you’re probably used to it.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
whatever #386,
PRICES!!! Exactly, the prices of tools will nosedive. Every IBO will be able to get to a net profit position sooner (at a lower PV level), and the business will skyrocket. Too bad you gave up your position and won’t be around to enjoy it, but then again….
You think the product changes are over? There were price reductions in the UK, products have already been introduced over here that are competitively priced, and more on the way.
I’ve gone on record saying I would prefer a private court case, because more of the tool scam facts would probably come out, but understand how Q wants to keep various issues more of a secret in arbitration, just like any other large corporation does. I’m sure somebody is hitting their head against the wall, but I think it’s coming from a house in Grand Blanc. With his bonehead moves, Orrin is probably used ot it.
Here’s another idea. Since “Pastor” apparently has a daughter who was a track star, perhaps she can teach all these clowns how to run away real fast, instead of doing all this head pounding.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
Did anyone see Melissa Seeback crying on the stand today from Wood Tv? She was crying because she was told she should leave
Amway/Scamway…She should be crying for having to STAY…I bet she could not make it in Team so she decided to have Amway pay her off to perform on the stand of her crying drama…..
October 16th, 2007 at 11:39 pm
Tex,
I will believe it when I see it. Meanwhile, you can thank Orrin for any crumbs the corporation may be throwing your way, since he has been one of the loudest voices calling for competitive pricing for years. You can deny that one all you want, but deep down you probably know it is true.
As for your other idea, I’m sure her time would be better spent teaching you some things about character.
October 17th, 2007 at 1:05 am
Negative Nancy #388,
Yeah, I saw it. I think her testimony was very convincing, I’ll bet her testimony makes a HUGE impact on Orrin’s GUILTY verdict. She probably worked hard to build her business (although it included the tool scam), until Orrin pulled his bone-head move by trying to sue Q for being an “illegal pyramid” and perhaps other actions against the court order. She felt betrayed by Orrin, because she was betrayed.
whatever #389,
I won’t thank Orrin for anything except for exposing more of the tool scam. The actions taken in the UK were enough to believe changes are coming here as well. Orrin’s real concern was the shutting down of his tool scam, which also occurred in the UK. He had to try to make a move, before it was too late for him to convince his group to leave, as he knew the Q deal was getting better.
She could teach me about character, but then the head banging wouldn’t stop.
October 17th, 2007 at 10:04 am
Tex,
Orrin’s efforts to get competitive pricing have been well documented for years. I’m sure you’ve seen some of the proof. Unfortunately, your obsession with the tool business blinds you to anything else.
You may be right, in part, that Orrin was concerned with shutting down the business support system. Why wouldn’t he be? In addition to the loss of income from that business, there would be the loss of the explosive growth his Q business had experienced as a direct result of the system’s effectiveness.
By the way, how is the better Q deal working for you? Have you been out building your new and improved business? How many new ABOs have you registered this month? Got many new “customers?” Or, are you still just banging your head against the wall?
October 17th, 2007 at 11:16 am
Tex #383
Originality is not your strong suit! It is obvious that you have no intelligent response to my posts. Where did you say retailing wasn’t important–On this site elsewhere! I’m not wasting my time finding your posts, you should know what you said…if you tell the truth! 75% growth next year???? That’s ridiculous even for your misleading comments! In an earlier post you spouted lets not exaggerate….now you puke this garbage. Come on use some facts and be real! Sooner or later you have to be honest!
If the scam is in the tools, why are the Devos and Van Andel families the richest? Shouldn’t Yeager be on top…Mr. System himself!
October 17th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
whatever #391,
Orrin’s efforts to get competitive pricing have been well documented for years. I’m sure you’ve seen some of the proof. Unfortunately, your obsession with the tool business blinds you to anything else. —- Orrin clearly wanted Q to fix their house, and didn’t want to fix his own tool scam. Q has some dust here and there, Orrin has garbage piled up everywhere.
You may be right, in part, that Orrin was concerned with shutting down the business support system. Why wouldn’t he be? In addition to the loss of income from that business, there would be the loss of the explosive growth his Q business had experienced as a direct result of the system’s effectiveness. —- Why would lowering tool prices result in a loss of growth? Wouldn’t more people be able to afford the tools, get to a net profit position sooner, and have even more explosive growth?
By the way, how is the better Q deal working for you? Have you been out building your new and improved business? How many new ABOs have you registered this month? Got many new “customers?” Or, are you still just banging your head against the wall? —- I get restarted when the tool scam gets fixed. I am not going to put much effort, time, and money into building something that may go away. As George Bush Sr. would say, “wouldn’t be prudent”. I need to be able to direct prospects to what has been fixed, not something that is still a mess. No head banging for me, Orrin is doing that just fine. By the looks of him in his court testimony video from yesterday, it’s really starting to hurt. But he should cheer up, yesterday will look like a good day in the future, it’s getting worse for him every day going forward.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Tex,
I said shutting down the leadership system would slow the Q business growth. Lowering tool prices was not the subject. Besides, you are the only one I’ve heard complaining about the tool prices. On the other hand, I’ve heard PLENTY of people complain about product prices.
Now you say you won’t spend effort, time, and money building something that may go away? Didn’t you just say the Amway business will experience 75% growth next year? So which is it? Is it exploding? Or going away? Once again it sounds like you are just making excuses so you don’t actually have to go outside and try to build a business.
As much as I’m sure Orrin Woodward would prefer not to deal with the all the BS involved with separating from Q/A, it actually gets better for him every day. Every day that goes by is one day closer to leaving Q/A behind, and moving on. His head banging days ended when he finally realized that Q/A would never change its pricing structure.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Amwway realist #392,
Where did you say retailing wasn’t important–On this site elsewhere! I’m not wasting my time finding your posts, you should know what you said…if you tell the truth! —- That’s why I questioned you, I never said that in another post. Okay, someone called you a pink elephant “On this site elsewhere! I’m not wasting my time finding your posts, you should know what you said…if you tell the truth!”. Therefore, you MUST be a pink elephant? It is obvious that you have no intelligent response to my posts.
75% growth next year???? That’s ridiculous even for your misleading comments! In an earlier post you spouted lets not exaggerate….now you puke this garbage. Come on use some facts and be real! Sooner or later you have to be honest! —- Where did I say 75% growth? I stated a 75% increase in sponsoring. Read the words.
If the scam is in the tools, why are the Devos and Van Andel families the richest? Shouldn’t Yeager be on top…Mr. System himself! —- Because they have several Yager size businesses, Yager only has his.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Tex #393
I don’t get it…or you. You claim that Orrin’s tool system is a “scam”, yet in this post you claim “there would be the loss of the explosive growth his Q business had experienced as a direct result of the system’s effectiveness”, what effect? The fact that the tools actually helped people better themselves ? How about the positive influence it had in building communities of people realize they could achieve their goals and dreams? This my friend, is the basis of our system, and yes, Quixtar benefited from our tools because as people joined our community and were introduced to Q, products were also purchased.
What I dont understand is where you come off calling it a scam? Orrin doesn’t gather up all of the profits and then dishes out some to other people, all of the profits are shared based on a formula. Anybody could earn more than Orrin, simple, all they had to do is build bigger communities. And most interesting is that Orrin would help anyone do that. So, the scam thing must have to do with the price of the tools. Six bucks for a cd, big whoop. The return you get on the info is many times more beneficial. I know, but it only cost pennies to make. So What. My brother worked at Microsoft and I could buy Microsoft Office from him for $10.00!!! What does it sell for in retail….$300.00? It’s not the cost to produce that is critical, its the info. And I don’t think you have ever addressed the fact that the system is voluntary. Nor have you addressed the lack of success in this type of business without a system to support and guide you. Read Kiyosaki, this is a major point for success in his books, if you read books.
So, this is the conclusion I’ve come up with about you. You’re a bonifide Hillary Rodham Clinton liberal, it’s not the fact you can earn profit from system, it’s just that you can earn alot of profit from system. And liberals like yourself hate it when an individual, thru hard work and dedication can be successful. It’s called “being responsible” for your own life. You should try it. Instead, you feel nobody should be entitled to earn major money based on their own creation. And you darn well know Orrin created our system, as he is the leader you dream of becoming. So I urge everyone to now address “Tex” as “Tex aka “Hillary”. Profits must scare you, they definantly irritate you. You’re definantley not be a person of success, I think I remember reading on one of your posts some time ago that you have purchased over $100,000 in tools. If I’m wrong I apologize. But if you did post this you are either a liar, or you didn’t apply anything from the system because you are still so “people” poor you failed in the business and now you are just bitter. It is all clear to me now.
October 17th, 2007 at 6:04 pm
whatever #394,
I said shutting down the leadership system would slow the Q business growth. —- I have never advocated shutting down the tool system, just lowering the prices.
Lowering tool prices was not the subject. —- It’s my subject.
Besides, you are the only one I’ve heard complaining about the tool prices. —- There are plenty of others, do some googling.
On the other hand, I’ve heard PLENTY of people complain about product prices. —- There’s plenty of that as well.
Now you say you won’t spend effort, time, and money building something that may go away? Didn’t you just say the Amway business will experience 75% growth next year? So which is it? Is it exploding? Or going away? Once again it sounds like you are just making excuses so you don’t actually have to go outside and try to build a business. —- It isn’t next year yet. The 75% increase in sponsoring is dependent on stopping the tool scam. I am hopeful it will happen sooner (late 07/early 08) rather than later.
As much as I’m sure Orrin Woodward would prefer not to deal with the all the BS involved with separating from Q/A, it actually gets better for him every day. Every day that goes by is one day closer to leaving Q/A behind, and moving on. His head banging days ended when he finally realized that Q/A would never change its pricing structure. —- He isn’t done with the “gang of 30″ court case or arbitration. You should ask him how it’s going.
October 17th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
Thunderstruck #396,
I don’t get it…or you. You claim that Orrin’s tool system is a “scam”, yet in this post you claim “there would be the loss of the explosive growth his Q business had experienced as a direct result of the system’s effectiveness”, what effect? —- I didn’t say that, whatever did, in #391. I just responded to it, after the dashes.
The fact that the tools actually helped people better themselves ? How about the positive influence it had in building communities of people realize they could achieve their goals and dreams? This my friend, is the basis of our system, and yes, Quixtar benefited from our tools because as people joined our community and were introduced to Q, products were also purchased. —- The tools have hurt many more people than they have helped, by bleeding them financially. The few “success stories” are financially successfully primarily from the secret tool profit. It’s a scam.
What I dont understand is where you come off calling it a scam? Orrin doesn’t gather up all of the profits and then dishes out some to other people, all of the profits are shared based on a formula. Anybody could earn more than Orrin, simple, all they had to do is build bigger communities. —- If it is secret, it’s still a scam, no matter how it is divided up.
And most interesting is that Orrin would help anyone do that. So, the scam thing must have to do with the price of the tools. Six bucks for a cd, big whoop. The return you get on the info is many times more beneficial. I know, but it only cost pennies to make. So What. My brother worked at Microsoft and I could buy Microsoft Office from him for $10.00!!! What does it sell for in retail….$300.00? It’s not the cost to produce that is critical, its the info. —- You can’t compare secret tool profits of a private company to a publicly traded company that has many required disclosures. Apples and oranges.
And I don’t think you have ever addressed the fact that the system is voluntary. —- Yes I have, you weren’t reading it. Why don’t you do a search on a few threads for “optional”, or “voluntary”, and try to keep up next time.
Nor have you addressed the lack of success in this type of business without a system to support and guide you. Read Kiyosaki, this is a major point for success in his books, if you read books. —- I don’t want to get rid of the system (information), just the scam (MA$$IVE tool profits).
So, this is the conclusion I’ve come up with about you. You’re a bonifide Hillary Rodham Clinton liberal, it’s not the fact you can earn profit from system, it’s just that you can earn alot of profit from system. —- Hillary makes my skin crawl. Just make the tool profit transparent, that’s all.
And liberals like yourself hate it when an individual, thru hard work and dedication can be successful. It’s called “being responsible” for your own life. You should try it. Instead, you feel nobody should be entitled to earn major money based on their own creation. —- I feel someone who refers to me as their “business partner” and “teammate” should be honest where they make their money, especially when it’s coming out of my back pocket into theirs, that’s all. It’s called “being honest”.
And you darn well know Orrin created our system, as he is the leader you dream of becoming. So I urge everyone to now address “Tex” as “Tex aka “Hillary”. —- I urge everyone to refer to you as “Thunderdunce”, as I have demonstrated above, this is a reasonable name for you.
Profits must scare you, they definantly irritate you. You’re definantley not be a person of success, I think I remember reading on one of your posts some time ago that you have purchased over $100,000 in tools. If I’m wrong I apologize. —- You are wrong, apology accepted. I have probably purchased over $100,000 WORTH of tools, but for pennies on the dollar.
But if you did post this you are either a liar, or you didn’t apply anything from the system because you are still so “people” poor you failed in the business and now you are just bitter. It is all clear to me now. —- It’s all clear to me too, Thunderdunce.
October 17th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
TO Whatever Says #394
There are thousands of us in Canada that know all about the over priced tools!!!! So do not say there is know one but Tex saying the tools are over priced!!!!!!
But to qualify for anything in InterBiz you have to be on SOS. So if we want to build our business with help — we must comply.
So be careful - if we all go on this blog and wrote, there would be no room for you to get your totally wrong opinions on line.
Yes some of the products are over priced - but you can pick what you want to buy. With the SOS they say you have a choice but really you do not. With products you can help the people in the business and your customers make good product choices. But with SOS you are to tell your people that SOS is the best and the most important thing to build your business.
Thanks Tex — thanks for sticking up for all of us that know Q/A is a very good business and want it to work the way it was meant to.
This is my one and only post -( I know all the Team will be glad) I will let Tex do what is needed - but remember there are thousands of us out there that believe what Tex is say, and since he says it so well, I will let him speak for me — With my approval go for it Tex!!!!
October 17th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
PS
Incase someone does not understand my name it means - Over the Price there is “A Violent
Cold North Wind Blowing” the Tools. Look Norther up in the dictionary.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
Over Price Norther Tools,
SOS?…InterBiz?…forgive my ignorance, but I’m not familiar with these terms. Are you referring to TEAM tools or some other system?
October 18th, 2007 at 2:24 am
Whatever:
SOS? - Standing Order System - 8 cd’s ($10 ea)
One Book ($19.95)Total $120 approx incl.
Tax & Shipping.
InterBIZ? - Business Systems -(Similar to TEAM)
Builds similar to TEAM -Including Depth Building(Stacking)Promotes “Prosumerism”- Profiting Consumer in Business (doesn’t mention retailing)
Utilizes “POWERPLAYER” strategy - One leg 10 deep with 4 on SYSTEM, one leg 5 deep with 2 on SYSTEM. In order to be paid from the TOOL PROFITS you need 20 IBO’s on SYSTEM in one leg and 10 IBO’s in second leg on SYSTEM, before you make any of the DIAMOND’S Tool Money…Needless to say only a few every make any money from the tools unless you can convince even those who can’t afford it to get on the SYSTEM…..Weekend conferences are now $300 a couple, website is $24.95 and Kate (voicemail) is anywhere from $14.95 to $44.95.
They teach you to drive the first leg only and don’t even attempt to start a second leg UNLESS YOU GET ON SYSTEM—Now following the WOODWARD (TEAM) method of DOT1/S.T.E.P. ie Sip Twice Eat Profit….where is the retailing in that. I guess they want you to eat your way to DIAMOND…..
Founder of InterBIZ - Casey Combden (check the old DATELINE USA 30 MINUTES from the 90’s news article on QUIXTAR and he’s the guy preaching this is the best business PERIOD! PERIOD!PERIOD!
October 18th, 2007 at 10:10 am
Canadian IBO,
Thanks for the information. While there appear to be similarities between InterBIZ and TEAM, it appears that the cost of the system with InterBIZ is notably higher. I assume participation in the system is voluntary with InterBIZ?
October 18th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
The time is right Tex.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
This is a post that I wanted people to look, www.dsa.org/meetings/am07/am07.html and Tex was the only one that looked at it and gave a response.
Tex said What about it?
This is the web site for the Direct Selling Association. Tex please look at the cost of the price of each CD from the “Direct Selling Association.”
I’d like to order a CD of the workshop presentations. Is one available?
Yes. Registered attendees can purchase a compilation CD that includes the workshop audio, powerpoint presentations and speaker bios. Each CD is $195, and will mail in early July. Click here to go to the order form.
PS Alticor is one of the sponsors. Alticor was founded on a hand shake with people that knew how to win friends and influence people but I am afraid that it is now ran by people that have not read “How to Win Friends and Influence People.”
October 19th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Whatever Says:
Yes it is voluntary to be on system. However if you don’t go on system you can not be a POWERPLAYER….You won’t be recognized at any of the functions and if you do go on and then get off—-WOW - where did you upline go..I know this for fact as we got off system and don’t get any calls now from my upline bigger pins….They preach the DREAM keep on keeping on and someday you will make it….they preach you to FAKE IT until you make it…..
I haven’t heard the InterBIZ Executive Diamond say what a great time he had at Diamond Club last year either….probably cause he never qualified to be there…..I know of two so called Platinums have quit the business since all this played out and lots are getting off system…..Those on system may as well get off now because shortly it probably will be gone too!!!!Save yourself some money…I know I did.
October 19th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
OVER PRICE NORTHER TOOLS #399,
This is my one and only post -(I know all the Team will be glad) I will let Tex do what is needed - but remember there are thousands of us out there that believe what Tex is say, and since he says it so well, I will let him speak for me — With my approval go for it Tex!!!! —- While I appreciate your confidence in me, I would even more appreciate you helping to get the “thousands” of other IBO’s on this site to crowd out the TEAM garbage, because the next step after we get rid of these mosquitoes is to turn to the next task of getting rid of the IBOAI. I hope all IBO’s get their $9 back, as a vote of NO CONFIDENCE in the rest of the tool scammers. I have been “banned” by the IBOAI site, because they know they are doing many of the same unethical and immoral activities, particularly the tool scam, and can’t handle the facts. Perhaps we need to organize a new organization that truly represents the IBO’s, because the current IBOAI is NOT interested in doing that, they are much more interested in their much more MA$$IVE tool scam profits.
whatever #401,
You’re showing your ignorance. If all you know is TEAM, you are way behind the knowledge curve.
Canadian IBO #402,
Are those Canadian dollars? I realize the Canadian dollar is currently about the same as the U.S. dollar.
whatever #403,
The costs aren’t that different.
DLSChicago #404,
The time is right for what?
Pa #405,
The price of the CD is typical of an industry informational CD. You can buy reports from other industries for hundreds to thousands of dollars. These prices do NOT give the lying cowardly “kingpins” to make most of their profit from the tool scam and lie about it to their self-claimed “teammates” and “business partners”. Use your brain. Get a clue.
Canadian IBO #406,
Good advice. Your experience was very much like mine. You are the upline’s best buddy when on the system (for the Orrinites, that means “on system”), but when you drop off the standing order, you may as well have fallen off the face of the earth.
October 21st, 2007 at 10:36 pm
Tex Says: 407
Those are Canadian Dollars. This is a joke now as well. cd’s are $10 Canadian $7.50 US. We have InterBIZ USA members as well. I asked to pay in US Dollars and got looked at kind of strangely!!!! I guess what really opened my eyes was back in August, when the TEAM fiasco hit I accidently found a website called QUIXTARTOOLS.COM where tools are free. (It has since been taken off the internet waves). In it I found all kinds of cd’s videos (training on product etc.) that were free…It eventually led me to another LOA where all the cd’s etc are free….you can download them but you can not sell them… When I found cd’s that I had paid Canadian dollars for and the same ones could have been gotten for free, it really ticked me off on InterBIZ.
Also why buy books from your upline (put money is his pocket) when you can get the same book from your own Partner Store, (usually at a discount) and get PV/BV for it as well…..Didn’t take me long to switch the light bulb on….Keep up the good work TEX, there are lots that are with you on all of your statements…
October 21st, 2007 at 11:49 pm
Tex,
I admit I don’t know everything. Unfortunately for you, you aren’t capable of admitting that. If you are so far ahead of the “knowledge curve” and have been around this for so long, why don’t you have a nice big business to show for it?
And, the costs what were listed by Canadian IBO for CDs and functions are significantly higher than TEAM. But, maybe they’re worth it. Since I don’t have personal experience with that system, I really can’t say.
Get over yourself Tex.
October 22nd, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Canadian IBO #408,
You can find the renamed site at: http://www.MLMResourceNetwork.com He doesn’t have all the content back up yet, but will be adding more in the future. Where else did you find free downloadable CD’s?
Other cost effective sources for books are your local library and online, such as ebay and amazon (also a good source for cassettes, CD’s, etc.). Our local library system has an annual book sale, I pick up an entire paper grocery bag full of books for $10, the same ones promoted at full retail from the various tool scam artists. The tool scammers usually buy the books for half price or less in case quantities, to finance their dream cars, boats, etc.
whatever #409,
I admit I don’t know everything. —- There’s the understatement of the year.
Unfortunately for you, you aren’t capable of admitting that. —- I can easily admit you don’t know everything. In fact, you know next to nothing.
If you are so far ahead of the “knowledge curve” and have been around this for so long, why don’t you have a nice big business to show for it? —- Because I was scammed for years and have only recently started putting a replacement system together. I am also doing my part to get the tool scam cleaned up, so we don’t have such a bad reputation that all of my time, effort, and money would be wasted. Get this through your thick head this time, I’m getting tired of repeatedly explaining it to you, idiot. But I’m willing to keep answering the same questions over and over for the new readers, so don’t think you’re wearing me down in any manner.
And, the costs what were listed by Canadian IBO for CDs and functions are significantly higher than TEAM. But, maybe they’re worth it. Since I don’t have personal experience with that system, I really can’t say. —- $7.50 vs. $6 for a $1 CD is NOT a significant cost difference. It is easily made up with weekly Opens vs. monthly Opens. You don’t have a single clue, do you? I have TEAM, InterBIZ, and many other LOS/LOA organizations’ tools. They are ALL interchangable with the others, ALL of them. There may be minor differences of lingo and emphasis, but they are MUCH more alike than different. I have personal experience with ALL those systems, I really CAN say.
Get over myself? It is YOU that is trying to make this discussion about me and not where it belongs, the lying cowardly “kingpins”. Get a grip.
October 22nd, 2007 at 10:06 pm
Tex: You are right it looks like the same source for free tools. If you check it out and see iteamusa- that is a LOA available for anyone in any LOA. You do not need to change LOS and all are welcome. On their website suscription only you get it all- all the cd’s and training is free……Brad Doyle is a former Diamond from InterBIZ I believe and he is totally against the tool scams out there…. It is a true internet business- you show the plan from your computer and their biggest promotion is RETAIL FOR PROFIT…..You do that by promoting PRODUCTS…..Listen to his cd’ iteam-what’s it all about?. Sounds like a great concept….Only cost is the website and as more join and use it the costs come down too.
October 22nd, 2007 at 11:06 pm
Tex,
You are the one without a single clue. Every time you post here you make that clear. You are nothing but a blog troll. You have no credibility. None. Funny that you call me an “idiot” when you are apparently the only one stupid enough to think nobody was making money on the tools you were buying. Wow. Go start your little “discount tool business” or your “charity tools business,” whatever you want to call it.
I am getting really tired of having to explain this to you. The system is VOLUNTARY. There is no SCAM. We buy the tools because we think they are WORTH IT. We know that there are nice PROFITS made from the sale of the tools.
If I buy a used music CD for $1, that doesn’t mean I expected the store to sell it to me new for $1. Wake up. Move on.
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Canadian IBO #411,
It is the same source, I’ve talked with and traded e-mails with the guy who runs the site. I have also talked with Brad, and he is definitely on the right track, although I don’t agree every IBO needs to have as much personal retail as they support. Remember, the rules say the tool sources can’t market to those outside their own LOS, but any IBO can obtain tools from any source they want to. I’ve seen the presentation as well, it is very well done. I may use it when the site cost comes down and the tool scam is finished off.
whatever #412,
You are the one without a single clue. Every time you post here you make that clear. You are nothing but a blog troll. You have no credibility. None. I called you idiot because you demonstrated you are one. I knew money was made via tools, I just didn’t realize how MUCH MORE money was made than Quixtar, and the fact that it was kept secret. That’s the rub. I don’t need your advice to “Go start your little “discount tool business” or your “charity tools business,” whatever you want to call it.”, it already moving along quite nicely, thank you very much.
I am getting really tired of having to explain this to you. The system is VOLUNTARY, but then the upline turns around and says, “so is success. Plus, if you go off standing order, you are ignored by upline, personal experience, not “theory”, you flaming idiot. There is a SCAM. You buy the tools because you think they are WORTH IT. You know that there are nice PROFITS made from the sale of the tools, but you don’t mind if this fact is kept secret from your prospects, because you’re a scam artist.
If I buy a used music CD for $1, that doesn’t mean I expected the store to sell it to me new for $1. Wake up. Move on. —- Apples and oranges, I moved on long ago. It is YOU that is stuck in the scam, not me.
October 23rd, 2007 at 3:29 pm
Tex,
You are the one without a single clue. Every time you post here you make that clear. You are nothing but a blog troll. You have no credibility. None. I called you idiot because you demonstrated you are one. (I see the anger and frustration in your posts. Apparently it comes from your belief that anyone with a different opinion/view from yours is an “idiot.” You are a sad individual.)I knew money was made via tools, I just didn’t realize how MUCH MORE money was made than Quixtar, and the fact that it was kept secret. That’s the rub. (I’m pretty sure the extent of profit was not discussed at the direction of A/Q.) I don’t need your advice to “Go start your little “discount tool business” or your “charity tools business,” whatever you want to call it.”, it already moving along quite nicely, thank you very much. (You’re welcome.)
I am getting really tired of having to explain this to you. The system is VOLUNTARY, but then the upline turns around and says, “so is success. (True. There is a big difference between recommended and mandatory) Plus, if you go off standing order, you are ignored by upline, personal experience, not “theory”, you flaming idiot.(Name calling is a tool of the weak minded, and your personal experience or perception isn’t necessarily the same as mine.) There is a SCAM.(Not) You buy the tools because you think they are WORTH IT.(True) You know that there are nice PROFITS made from the sale of the tools, but you don’t mind if this fact is kept secret from your prospects, because you’re a scam artist.(Not true)
If I buy a used music CD for $1, that doesn’t mean I expected the store to sell it to me new for $1. Wake up. Move on. —- Apples and oranges (Not really), I moved on long ago.(Not based upon the amount of time you spend blogging here) It is YOU that is stuck in the scam, not me.(I’ve already explained that I’m not “stuck” in anything, and there is no scam.)
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:17 pm
whatever #414,
I see the anger and frustration in your posts. Apparently it comes from your belief that anyone with the facts is an “idiot.” You are a sad individual.
If the extent of profit was not discussed at the direction of A/Q, then it’s a little late to maintain that policy, wouldn’t you say? Plus, now that we know the amounts are MA$$IVE, I think the upline owes us an answer to the question if A/Q also required them to keep the tool prices high so they could make the MA$$IVE profit.
I think it is clear my “thank you” was not genuine.
There is hardly NO difference between recommended and mandatory.
Name calling is a tool to try to enter the mind of the weak minded, and my personal experience or perception isn’t necessarily the same as yours, but it IS the same of many other IBO’s.
I moved on from being one more victim of the tool scam to getting these scam “operations” shut down.
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Moderator,
You really do read these, don’t you?
October 23rd, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Tex #417
There is hardly NO difference between recommended and mandatory.
Looks like a big difference to The American Heritage Dictionary
man·da·to·ry
Required or commanded by authority; obligatory: ( example: Attendance at the meeting is mandatory. )
rec·om·mend·ed
To praise or commend (one) to another as being worthy or desirable; endorse: ( example recommended him for the job; recommended a car instead of an SUV. )
October 23rd, 2007 at 9:44 pm
Tex,
“Name calling is a tool to try to enter the mind of the weak minded”
Just LOL.
“There is hardly NO difference between recommended and mandatory.”
Again….LOL.
“If the extent of profit was not discussed at the direction of A/Q, then it’s a little late to maintain that policy, wouldn’t you say?”
Maybe at this point it isn’t a matter of continuing to maintain that policy as much as its a matter that is none of your business. By your own explanation, you would only be entitled to that information from your upline, or “teammate” as you put it. The minute that policy became irrelevant, so did your right to ask a terminated person anything about their other business interests.
October 24th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
janedoe #417,
These are different words and meaning in a dictionary, but NOT how they are applied with the tool program. Sorry, you lose again.
whatever #418,
Only the former lying cowardly “kingpins” are willing to disclose the MA$$IVE tool profits they made, for an obvious reason: They having nothing to lose. Several of them have come forward, and ALL of them are consistent with the others.
October 25th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
Tex,
Let me state this question as briefly as possible….
So what?
October 26th, 2007 at 2:09 am
whatever #420,
The story used to be no money was made on tools. Then the story changed to some money was made on tools, after a few lawsuits were made public. Now we know MA$$IVE profits come from tools.
Why you don’t understand how the tool scam creates the wrong incentives for the upline, causes the downline to operate at a net loss until a relatively high pin level is achieved, is beyond me. But then again, your name is “whatever”.
October 26th, 2007 at 11:47 pm
Tex,
Whose story used to be “no money was made on tools?” And, when exactly did it change to “some money was made on tools?” And, in that “story,” how much was “some?” Finally, how do you define “massive?” Who decides how much profit is too much? If the profits, whatever they are, are divided fairly based upon the size of the business built, which is representative of the amount of work done, I have no problem with those who have stuck with it for years and built massive businesses receiving their massive share of the profits.
Why you don’t understand that having profit sharing in a business that rewards people strictly based upon performance, which adds incentive to work harder to build even larger businesses, which ultimately results in explosive growth and more product volume, is beyond me.
Anyway, with the arbitration and litigation in progress, it seems pointless to continue this debate any further here. Sooner or later these issues will be put to bed, and we’ll all move on accordingly. I am assuming that most of the way you’ve acted on these blogs has been a calculated effort to get people worked up. Hopefully, you are more respectful of others outside this anonymous setting, even when they disagree with you. Take care.
October 27th, 2007 at 3:04 am
Tex, what are you thinking? Take a break, take a day off, take a vacation.
October 28th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
whatever #422,
This claim predates TEAM, I have heard it from various bloggers about a number of LOS/LOA’s. By the time TEAM came along, the tool scam was too well known to deny, so they simply remained silent and in TEAM’s case, apparently required any IBO making a profit to NOT disclose the level of the profit. This limited the damage the tool scam was doing, until various statements by former Emerald and above IBO’s and other lawsuits were disclosed, providing an insight that MA$$IVE tool scam profits were being made.
I define MA$$IVE as materially affecting the basic lifestyle that is created. Loosely, if you have from 50-100% of your A/Q profit from tools, this will be true. We know from many different sources, different lines of sponsorship, the amount exceeds 100% by several times.
Rich DeVos defined “too much” as exceeding 20% of A/Q income, but I don’t think there is a particular number necessary, only transparency regarding HOW MUCH is made, and let the free market decide what the right amount should be. However, it would also help for IBO’s to have real and easily accessed alternative tool sources, plus A/Q provided prospecting materials, which have a much higher review/approval level than IBO materials.
You may not have a problem with MA$$IVE tool profits, but the overall market clearly does.
I don’t have an issue with MA$$IVE profit per se, I have a problem with keeping the amount of profit secret from the downline “teammates” and “business partners”.
I can assure you I am much more mellow and personable outside of the blogging world, and have used the aggressive persona while blogging as a response to others trying to insult, abuse, and put me down, as initially I tried to be a “nice guy”, trying to convince others with only the facts, and that didn’t work.
In2Win #423,
I think you’re an idiot. Now is the time to keep up the pressure, and finally topple the tool scams. Take a hike.
November 10th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
heh heh, loosing two law suits in a day is a great way to keep up the pressure! LOL!!!
November 28th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Jerad #425,
First of all, you don’t “loose” lawsuits, you “lose” them. Also, which ones are you talking about? Most of the lawsuits are not losses, they are going forward in arbitration.