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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
October 3rd, 2007 @ 4:30 pm ET…
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Several items hit the office inbox this week that we thought were worth sharing.
One, from our Amway Europe management, is a good summary of the excitement of our UK relaunch and also a good update on other matters in the market. We’re posting that note at the Amway Media Blog.
Two other memos went to Quixtar IBOs from Gary VanderVen and his team in business conduct and rules. They are pretty self-explanatory also.
The most recent memo:
Many IBOs choose to attend meetings and functions that help train and motivate them to become more successful as QUIXTAR® IBOs. While we at Quixtar certainly support this activity, we have recently learned that some IBOs are inviting, and even pressuring, other IBOs to buy tickets to and to attend certain functions whose purpose is NOT to build the QUIXTAR business. Some of these are local Open meetings at which IBOs openly encourage other IBOs to leave Quixtar. Others are major functions.
Please understand that all solicitation by IBOs of IBOs who are not personally sponsored to attend meetings and functions where the QUIXTAR business is not promoted and where a competing business is promoted are clear violations of Rule 4.14, which prohibits IBOs from soliciting other IBOs who are not personally sponsored for other selling activities. Also, such solicitation by IBOs of any other IBOs represents a clear violation of Rule 6.5, which prohibits IBOs from participating in/promoting a competing business.
If IBOs, or former IBOs upline or crossline from you, are pressuring you or IBOs downline from you to buy tickets to meetings and functions where the organizers are not promoting the QUIXTAR opportunity, please let us know immediately, at qbcr.department@quixtar.com
We at Quixtar stand with you and can enforce the rules against IBOs who try to violate them – but we need your help. You and other IBOs in the field are in the best position to detect and report this type of Rules violation.
The second memo from rules is a bit longer:
Dear IBO,
An IBO in your upline recently informed us of their immediate resignation from the QUIXTAR® business. In situations like this, it is important for you and all the remaining IBOs in the Line of Sponsorship to understand your rights as well as the responsibilities of the resigning IBO.
First and most important, the resignation of an upline IBO should not hurt your QUIXTAR business. As an IBO, your contract is with Quixtar, and your relationship with Quixtar has not changed. We are always here to support you and to answer any questions you have.
Second, you and every other IBO remaining in your QUIXTAR leg have the right, under your contracts with Quixtar, to be free of any solicitation or interference by the departing IBO. If anyone tells you that a “group” of IBOs or some IBO “leaders” are going to leave Quixtar and join some other business, beware. The Rules of Conduct prohibit the departing IBO from participating in any competing network marketing business (for six months) and also prohibit the departing IBO from soliciting other IBOs to participate in such a competing business (for two years). Every IBO is required to use the QUIXTAR Line of Sponsorship only to promote and sell QUIXTAR-approved products and services. Please refer to Rules 4.14, 4.27, and 6.5 of the Rules of Conduct, available online for details.
Third, these Rules also apply to you and every other QUIXTAR IBO. No IBO has the legal right to solicit other IBOs for any business other than QUIXTAR . Any IBO who does so is violating the QUIXTAR contract and damaging the businesses of other IBOs. The QUIXTAR Rules are designed to protect you from a former IBO trying to get IBOs downline from you to leave QUIXTAR for some other opportunity.
Hopefully you aren’t facing these problems. But if you are, Quixtar can help. If another IBO is: soliciting other IBOs upline or downline from you to leave the QUIXTAR business; soliciting other IBOs downline from you to purchase BSM or attend business support meetings that are not approved by Quixtar or you; trying to pressure you to resign or to follow them into some other business; spreading false or misleading information about the QUIXTAR business; or interfering with your QUIXTAR business in any other way, please contact Rules Administration at 616-787-6712 or qbcr.department@quixtar.com immediately. Quixtar can take action to enforce the Rules and protect your QUIXTAR business and the QUIXTAR businesses of other IBOs. However, if you have any questions concerning these issues, feel free to contact us at any time.
We hope the current situation has not been disruptive for you in building your business. With the addition of hew products, new programs, and $60 million more in the new QUIXTAR Business Incentives Program, there’s never been a better time to build a profitable QUIXTAR business.
The take-away from all three memos: Even in a time of change, we are moving forward, doing all we can to help Amway and Quixtar IBOs grow their businesses.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:38 pm
i’m not sure, but don’t these two memos conflict with the TRO in Texas?
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:49 pm
Matthew, to me it does look like Quixtar is talking to IBO’s and use language to keep their LOS together, but no one else can talk to an IBO…sounds like a TRO violation to me!!
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:02 pm
matthew #1/I Cor. 10:31,
The TRO in Texas no longer exists, there is nothing left to be inconsistent with.
Have you seen the New Revised Standard IBO Version of your verse? It’s “So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God, and some PV/BV wouldn’t hurt, either.”
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Tex #3,
You’re assuming that the previous post was in reference to the Texas TRO. As of yet, we don’t know that for certain.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:31 pm
tex do you have a link where i can get some material support for the case being thrown out?
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:34 pm
#1 Matthew,
I haven’t read where any of the texas TRO’s were cancelled. Q/A didn’t say, and I haven’t seen anything from Team saying more than they had one suit dropped. I do know that Q/A did win one suit in texas, because it was thrown out. I don’t now which one that was.
I also know that neither email specifically mention Team. That said, it has been over a month since there were any Team opens, and I have never had anyone from there pressure me to attend something or quit. No upline has ever suggested anyone quit, despite I have seen many posts of people doing just that. People can make up there own minds. I figure I have til the end of the year to decide.
If Q/A said that you would be in violation to attend a meeting that you paid for before 8/09, then I believe Q/A would be in violation of court rules. I am not reading anything that would stop anyone from attending a Team function. Q/A can’t do that, based on the MI court clarification, in my opinion. (I am no attorney).
What they can do is enforce anti-raiding rules, and non-compete rules along with cross-line rules. Team can’t sell any contacting tools for prospects, and they dropped selling those some time ago.
Both of these emails look like Corporate trolling for anyone not playing by the rules as currently outlined by both sides. I was surprised I even got the 1st one.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Captain #4,
I didn’t bring up the Texas TRO, matthew in message #1 did.
matthew #5,
No, but Quixtar said they would post it soon. Keep an eye on freetheibo.com, perhaps they will post it, but I personally doubt they will in the next day or so.
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:00 pm
but what if my scout-master also was my sponsor in Q/A? are they going to sue him for promoting a boyscout meeting where we will be looking for fundraiser things to sell??? I think we’re just a little ambiguous here…
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:09 pm
It’s official. Quixtar is changing its name to QSSR, short for Quixtar Soviet Socialist Republic.
The email above clearly indicates I can’t invite anyone in my downline to a meeting or conference at my church because its purpose is NOT to build the Quixtar business. (Guess that John Maxwell telecast at St. Matthew’s is off limits.) Not so bad, you say? Well, QSSR is actually encouraging us to spy on and report our friends, neighbors, and associates. (Don’t they do that in China? Cuba? North Korea?)
This is on top of the fact that we can’t own, manage, operate, consult for, be employed by, or be affiliated in any way with any enterprise that markets products or services similar to those offered by QSSR. Rule 6.5.4. states that this is for the six-month period after an IBO stops being an IBO, but according to Rule 6.5.2. an IBO is an IBO who is either currently registered or has been registered at any time within the past two calendar years. (So just when can I go back to earning a living? Is it six months after two calendar years beginning January 1st? Or is it two calendar years after the six months which began the third month after I stopped being an IBO?)
But wait, there’s more! QSSR has “ruled” that I cannot talk to any family member, friend, neighbor, or associate about any thing I might be doing to earn a living—which of course I can’t do for some unclearly specified amount of time—if they have been a QSSR IBO at any time in the past … is it six months? No, this one is two years. I think. (But it’s in the Rules! It’s in the Rules!)
In their unceasing commitment to fairness, QSSR has made a provision for me to complain should any of this be not to my liking. I can ask the IBOAI Hearing Panel to review my dispute and make a recommendation, which of course can then be accepted, reversed, or modified by QSSR. If I find that “remedy” unsatisfactory, I can ask for confidential, binding arbitration with an “impartial” arbitrator who has been satisfactorily indoctrinated by the special QSSR three-day “orientation” and also depends on clients like QSSR for future revenue. Of course, this is to be at my expense, not to exceed $6,000 per day plus the arbitrator’s travel, lodging, meals, and rental of the room in which the “arbitration” is to take place. (To date, QSSR has never lost in arbitration. I don’t think the KGB ever lost in court either.)
I think we would have more rights in China or Cuba. Did anyone realize what they were signing up for when they registered with this company?
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:24 pm
Tex #7,
Yes, I know you aren’t the one that brought up the Texas TRO. matthew did, wondering if the recent emails violated that TRO.
But, you are the one that claimed that TRO no longer exists. I’m simply pointing out the fact that we don’t yet have enough information to come to that conclusion.
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:25 pm
tex, # 7
i think we are talking about two different court cases. the TRO i am referencing is the one that took place weeks ago with ron simmons. That was ruled upon and closed weeks ago. This new texas lawsuit was recent, and sounds like it was thrown out. Are we getting the two confused? I think so. But not sure
October 3rd, 2007 at 7:25 pm
Utah #6,
You haven’t read where any of the Texas TRO’s were cancelled? You posted on the “Spaghetti” thread today, what do you think is the topic of that thread?
Q/A didn’t say, and you haven’t seen anything from Team saying more than they had one suit dropped? See above.
You do know that Q/A did win one suit in Texas, because it was thrown out? See above, you now seem to be contradicting yourself on the same post.
You don’t now which one that was? I think it was the one submitted by Ron Simmons, the CEO of Legacy (Wilson/Haugen), which recently merged with TEAM.
No upline has ever suggested anyone quit, despite I have seen many posts of people doing just that? They brag all over the freetheibo blog that they quit, I think thisis so transparent of an invite it makes clear glass look murky. People can make up there own minds.
You figure you have til the end of the year to decide? I thought you couldn’t wait to join the “Walmart on the Internet”? Why waste time and lose your spot on the TEAM?
If Q/A said that you would be in violation to attend a meeting that you paid for before 8/09, then I believe Q/A would be in violation of court rules? ———— I don’t think so, because you weren’t invited to a non-Quixtar meeting, and now it is a non-Quixtar meeting, so if they are inviting you to the meeting to join another scam, they should “dis-invite” you, or they’ll probably be in big trouble.
I am reading a lot that would stop anyone from attending a Team function, depending on the content of the meeting.
Q/A can do that, based on the MI court clarification, in my opinion. (I am no attorney).
What Quixtar is enforceing is the anti-raiding rules, and non-compete rules, the cross-line rules no longer apply.
Both of these emails looks like Corporate is doing their job, for anyone not playing by the rules. I wasn’t surprised I got either one.
October 3rd, 2007 at 7:27 pm
matthew #7,
What do you mean by “closed”? Did it already expire? I am not aware of more than one lawsuit in north Texas, although I think there’s a similar one in Houston.
October 3rd, 2007 at 7:38 pm
In reality, I would like to retract my last post and instead thank Q for those two latest emails sent to current IBO’s. Because you actually turned off more who have had enough and now want to resign. Of course, I did not encourage it at all…don’t want to break any rules and get sent to camp Adaswich.
Question I have is this: if I want somebody to go to a concert with me (and buy tickets) I am in violation unless the performer promotes Quixtar? Dang! I really wanted to take a friend of mine to see Bruce. Think he would be kind enough to change a title to a song so it would be legit? Of course he would be close to promoting Quixtar if he sang “Darkness on the edge of town”, but then again, he would be promoting TEAM’s future if he sang “Glory Days”. So I guess I’m sunk.
October 3rd, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Of course it’s “vague” … that way, it can be twisted to suit the framers of the language.
This used to be an opportunity to develop a business of your own … now it’s rapidly developing into a simple exercise in legislating their own (Q’s) purpose for existence.
Personally, I find the business compendium to be heavier than the weight of most domestic vehicles - and I’m talking about it’s size, let alone it’s content.
Face it … more “rules” does not equate into more “business” - just more job for Corporate barristers and clerks. Darn near like a government agency.
October 3rd, 2007 at 8:43 pm
LisBette Says: # 9
Just as I said to Tex in the “Spaghetti” topic, it is inappropriate to be insulting and name calling, I also ask you to refrain from doing the same. I find it distracting and it lowers your credibility in expressing your points.
You may not agree with certain things Quixtar is doing, fine. Say so. However, I do agree with Quixtar and find your comments about them offensive. I personally have great respect for what they are doing and how they are handling the current situation, including the memes above, very respectful and professionally done.
On the other hand, I do not agree with what Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady have done (lawsuit, etc…), making false statements about my Quixtar business, I believe they are absolutely wrong. Yet, I choose to be respectful enough to call them by their name and not insult them. I may disagree with them, but I will do it in a civil and respectful way, that’s all I ask of you or anyone else.
Realizing by the tone of your words you disagree with the memos above, I believe you are either reading too much into the memos, or misunderstand the wording. May I suggest you contact Quixtar and ask to speak with your sales coordinator and ask them your questions as to exactly what is acceptable and what is not. Then there won’t be any misunderstanding. I did this regarding the lawsuit and other topics when I had questions; it helped me to clarify things.
Thank you.
Respectfully yours,
Ros
October 3rd, 2007 at 9:15 pm
tagteam #8,
Are you serious?
LisBette #9,
Ditto.
Captain #10,
There’s enough for me, there’s more and bigger fish to fry.
matthew #11,
I suggest we wait until more documents are available and stop the guessing game.
October 3rd, 2007 at 9:37 pm
So if I report my up-line for previous pressure to buy worthless seminar tickets will it be anonymous? Knowing them they will try to take me to dinner or start calling me again about the “huge business oppourtunity”
October 3rd, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Raiding is a BIG deal. I for one am grateful that Quixtar will go to such great lengths to protect my business.
Do you think this is new to them? They’ve been around for almost 50 years. They’ve had plenty of “leaders” use them and try to toss them aside like a prom dress.
We are talking about a GLOBAL community being affected.
We are talking about multi-million dollar IBOships which are WILLABLE being affected.
That means the legacy of children that aren’t even born yet are affected if Quixtar lets you literally and figuratively tear the business apart.
You, as an IBO are in many people’s downline. And what happens to your IBOship affects ALL your upline.
And what happens to the reputation affects ALL IBOs around the world.
And you think Quixtar is just going to let you walk (and try to walk all over them) without a fight?
You’ve got to be kidding me.
——————————————————————————————–
If this comment doesn’t apply to you, then disregard it.
October 3rd, 2007 at 10:30 pm
excuse me ros #16
name calling or not, we dont need any mothering, you have to be kidding, about how great they are handling it, a smear compaign and sending private investigator into meetings and then sending letters to ibo asking them to tell on folks and threating folks, real professional, i would really like it if you went out built your amway business to the best of your ability and prove us wrong PLEASE PROVE US WRONG
October 3rd, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Tex is right. Enough guessing, lets get some facts out here guys and gals…
Moderator–when are we getting some documents here that support the lawsuit in texas that was thrown out?
October 3rd, 2007 at 11:10 pm
Thunderstruck #14,
You’re not sunk, but your logic is very mucked up.
G #15,
I agree with you about the rules, and have mentioned this issue to Quixtar on more than one occasion. The rules are far too complex.
Ros #16,
I’m sorry for asking you on another thread if we are going steady, our relationship is officially OFF.
say no to TEAM #18,
What they did previously they have covered by the rules, even though they bastardized the rules with their actions.
However, I would gladly accept a dinner (their treat), and then turn their butts in if they try to recruit you into another one of their scams.
Bridgett #19,
Amen.
October 3rd, 2007 at 11:11 pm
So if you meet a nice girl at church and invite her to a movie, then you find out that she is an IBO who isn’t planning on becoming an Amway sales-slave, the corporation is gonna take you to court because movie theaters sell popcorn!
Obviously popcorn from a movie theater would be a competing product!
Can the IBOs take Quixtar to court for competing with the IBOs?
Are IBOs allowed to solicit for other IBOs to buy Bon Jovi tickets and join Mary Kay? Those pink Cadillacs are… well.. they are Cadillacs! (not that I’m going to Bon Jovi or in Mary Kay, just a question)
October 3rd, 2007 at 11:13 pm
bridgett #19
bottom line the great amway,
talks of free enterprise, and that is what makes america great right???
they claim a better business to come right?
then why are their so many x diamonds running other non competing business’s?? xango i think is one, and some of those other vitamin companies are old diamonds
why are the prices so high? quality….come on?
how is it an opportunity if they dont compete with the rest of the product world???
whats the compeling reason to build it? the opportunity?
someone tell me the opportunity bonuses?
why would i shop or build q*? prices are not competitive and the name has a horrible reputation. and in all reality why would you work so hard to build a business that has very few competive priced products what would be the selling point, why would people get in and stay in, and actually do something???
what is q* big attraction?????
does anyone know?????
instead of treating ibo as property,
October 3rd, 2007 at 11:39 pm
As I have watched this situation go down since Aug. 9 I believe people, mainly the critics of Team, don’t realize the size of this situation.
First, let me tell you my own experience since Aug. 9. My wife and I,not associated with Team until July, have consistently hit the 6-9% levels (usually 9%) with spikes to 12-15% this year. Slowly growing but growing thanks to a lot of work. After associating with Team we and our downline saw hope in the future…we could succeed. After Aug. 9 I have watched as my downline has disappeared and as of today only 1 person placed a very small order. Hitting even 6% will be hard to accomplish for this month. Now imagine this same experience happening for IBOs all over the country. Don’t tell me that Q isn’t feeling the effects of this situation.
Secondly, critics of Team seem to think that Team is made up of just the IBO organizations represented in the CA court case. I know that there are dozens of other Diamond organizations that had affiliated themselves with Team before Aug. 9. Their names are just not being spread all over court documents and in blogs. Those Diamond organizations are all feeling the effects of this situation. IBO businesses all over the country are hurting just like mine. Now think about the international business that is represented by all the organizations that are associated with Team. Things can get really ugly for Alticor worldwide depending on how this pans out here in the USA.
I’m sure the organizations that are not mentioned would just like to see things get resolved so they can focus on building their businesses again. The biggest problem is that the longer this gets dragged out, and people don’t have direction, more people will disappear out of shear frustration of not knowing how to proceed. The more Q pushes the IBOs that are sitting on the fence (emails, etc.) the more they push them over to TEAM’s side. EVERYONE is losing no matter what side you are on.
My wife & I have not been associated with Team long enough to be completely loyal like those maybe directly sponsored into Team, but the more memos and emails and blog postings that come from Q the more I don’t want to be a Q IBO.
Now there is a brighter future ahead of us. I know this to be a fact because I know that God controls everything and His Will will be done with Q or with Team I guess time will only tell.
May God be with everyone as we go through this storm.
October 4th, 2007 at 12:00 am
#24 NTKS, we respect your right to decide to go elsewhere, after waiting your six-month non-compete period. Some of us, however, have come to a different conclusion — after much thoughtful reflection and consideration — about the Alticor opportunities, and even if you don’t want to come along, I hope you wish the rest of best wishes, as I do you. And believe it or not, you’re always welcome to give it another crack if you see, down the road, that it’s turned out differently from what you feared.
Bridgett, excellent points!!!
Same to you Ros… some people don’t recognize who their real friends are…
I wonder if everyone would still talk the same way if their mothers were in the room and they had to say everything out loud.
Anyway, just about bedtime, signing off for the evening.
Blessings to all, regardless of which “side” you’re on. 
October 4th, 2007 at 12:25 am
It is really disgusting that such a promenent and so called respected company could act as though they are running for the United States President or some political office. Did one of the political parties send you over their campaign manager to handle the Woodward vs. Quixtar case or something? I can’t believe how unprofessional Quixtar is acting. I can tell you this much. I have NEVER heard any of the leaders (ex-IBO Platinums or above) even once discredit Quixtar to me or my friends. In fact they have edified Quixtar to its fullest until Quixtar started saying these things. Not NONE of them will say anything about Quixtar whether good or bad anymore. All I ask as a former & confused IBO, is that you please return to demonstrate the professional manner you have always epected me to do when I was an IBO. Most of my existing IBOs have not resigned like I have and I have encouraged them NOT to resign and to wait and see what happens for their sake. However I am starting to think that they would be farther ahead to get a minimum paying job than to be involve with you anymore.
October 4th, 2007 at 1:45 am
Bridgett’s World:
A Different Experience Since August 9th
1) My group PV (outside my one Platinum leg) was higher in August than it was in July.
2) My group PV (outside my one Platinum leg) was higher in September than it was in August.
3) My one Platinum leg’s PV is higher than previous months as well.
4) My profit and well as my Platinum’s (Bonus Check plus IBO Cost/Suggested Retail differential) is also higher than previous months.
We believe in the First Circle Initiative.
Therefore we RETAIL.
We do it,
we make money,
we teach it,
we help others make money,
they make money,
they know this business works because they got the cash to prove it,
therefore they have conviction when “showing the plan”,
they sponsor because of that conviction,
the cycle starts all over again,
and no one in my business has quit since August 9th.
Hugs and big wet kisses to you ALL.
October 4th, 2007 at 2:50 am
Bridgett,
I agree that it is in Q/Amway’s best interest not to let TEAM members walk.
I am willing to wait my six months and move on from there. Whoever’s multi-million dollar upline I am part of will have to do make do without me. I have the right to choose what’s best for me, my children and my children’s children.
I don’t get the feeling that Q/Amway cares what their reputation is with me by the emails I received. I am not kidding about this at all. I take this very seriously. I think others do too.
October 4th, 2007 at 8:27 am
amazed #23,
It depends. Is the nice girl from Europe?
not the kings subject #24,
The reason the higher pins are leaving is because the tool scam is becoming better known and they are no longer able to scam people, so their income goes down. Besides, how could you continue in a business after ripping off people for decades? Better to be a stranger in a new business where you’re not known.
A/Q got lazy with pricing, because the IBO “leaders” (tool scammers) didn’t complain for a long time, as they were making plenty of tool scam money. A/Q is well known for not listening to the lower level IBO’s, so as far as they were concerned, there was no problem for a long time.
Only when the UK DTI clamped down on the tool scam and the noise on the internet via blogs got loud enough was there enough of a push to get A/Q’s attention.
Amway took the right action recently in the UK, action that should have been taken decades ago, but the right direction nonetheless. Hopefully Amway took enough action to not get shut down, time (and apparently a court case) will tell.
Steve #25,
Which other Diamonds have associated themselves with TEAM, besides the ones in the Wilson group (Legacy) or Goetschel (5K)?
rdknyvr #26,
There are many situations in life where we would act differently if our Mothers were around. Blogs are one example, there are many others.
I started blogging trying to be “nicey nice” while others slammed me, and it destroyed my position. Only by “fighting fire with fire” is one able to survive on these blogs.
If you want to be so “high and mighty”, I suggest you take your “can’t we just all get along” speech to the streets of Baghdad and see how long you survive. The world is not how you would like it to be, it is how it is. Deal with it.
October 4th, 2007 at 8:35 am
#28 Bridgett: Good for you, but please keep your big wet kisses to yourself.
October 4th, 2007 at 9:39 am
Bridgett:
Thank you for #19. You couldn’t have said it any better or more succinctly.
#29 DLSChicago:
I’ve received the same e-mails that you have. Do you think they should hold your hand and pooh-pooh those of you who are bent on destroying the lives of thousands of people? Take off those TEAM blinders and view those e-mails in the light they were meant to be seen in.
October 4th, 2007 at 10:02 am
What’s so hard to understand about the rules? former Ibos are prohibited from going to other competing business for six months, and they are prohibited from soliciting others into that business for two years. I don’t see anything funny about these rules. If you want to go with Traitors, I mean TEAM, and you think that’s the best for you, then do it, if you feel right to go with someone that back stabed a company that was only helping them and you feel comfortable they wouldn’t do the same to you, then go ahead, but what has Q/A done to you to atack it like that? NOTHING!!!!!Like all the time they are just trying to protect Ibos that are doing what’s right. Don’t be a hater let Q/A continue without all that negativitie, that really doesn’t do anything but make YOU feel better.
October 4th, 2007 at 10:15 am
Mimi
Well said, if your clueless to what they had (and still) are doing to TEAM members.
October 4th, 2007 at 10:23 am
Steve #25
Great to hear from people who are thinking logically about this situation, not emotionally. All these people think we want to raid the Q business, they are dead wrong. Frankly, I don’t know anyone on TEAM who has pressured current IBO’s. I for one, don’t want anyone agreeing with Q concepts to be part of my TEAM business. We just want the oportunity of people to have a choice. Q doesn’t. And people who agree with this situation also probably think the lastest socialized trends in this country area good thing. They can’t think for themselves so nobody else should be able to either.
October 4th, 2007 at 10:48 am
See #94 post to #35 on Spaghetti.
Q/A wouldn’t post it here.
October 4th, 2007 at 10:51 am
Thank you Q for the letters being sent. I hope to receive my letter soon.
Tex, keep up the good work.
Goodbye Q, just waiting my 6 months. I already know where I am heading.
And, by the way, rules or no rules, I will talk to my family and friends…..
October 4th, 2007 at 10:58 am
GirlPower,
I am not bent on destroying the lives of thousands I am simply making a decision for myself and my family.
My point to Bridgett was that I do not have an obligation to some multi-millionaire upline that I don’t know. I have the right to make a decision to leave just like you have the right to stay. I can respect that.
I could accuse you of destroying the lives of thousands by staying with Amway because I believe this is no longer an opportunity, but I won’t do that because you believe there is one. I can respect that too.
For the record, I don’t want Amway holding my hand ever.
October 4th, 2007 at 11:03 am
Tex -
The complexity of the rules are suffocating - what has me even more concerned is the vagueness of many references within.
I personally know that when our organization melded with TEAM several months ago, on two specific separate occasions, upline Emeralds in our group asked specifically about TEAM to their Emerald coordinator at Corp (probably using wrong terminology, so please forgive). In both instances, they were given “green light” - in fact one said “I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised”.
Now, either someone was lying through teeth, or there serious lack of communication at the mothership. I’d like to believe it’s latter, but given what we saw with TIF fiasco a couple years back, it sure looks like former, doesn’t it.
I know A/Q is privately held, so they are under no “official” obligation to provide ownership info. However, would minority ownership stakes (perhaps given as “incentives” to high FAA pins) help to explain some of the shenanigans we’ve seen over past few years regarding BSM “authorizations”? Food for thought …
October 4th, 2007 at 11:09 am
#35 Thunderstruck said, “Frankly, I don’t know anyone on TEAM who has pressured current IBOs.”
Response: I do.
Can those of you who are playing by the rules and don’t know a single soul who is not playing by the rules, maybe entertain the idea that there are other TEAM members that are not playing fair?
It’s a big world out there.
———————————————
#31 NG, Why are you so cranky? I thought you’d be happy for my success.
October 4th, 2007 at 11:17 am
#38 DLSChicago,
I completely agree that you need to do what’s right for you and your family.
And it appears from what I’ve read of some of your comments on this site that my #19 comment do NOT apply to you.
I’m not talking about keeping people in the biz against their will. I’m talking about RAIDING.
It is not THAT someone leaves the business that tears it apart. It’s HOW they leave the business that tears it apart.
October 4th, 2007 at 11:17 am
I haven’t seen a score update in a long time:
I have it as Q 2 games won, Team 0
With I don’t know how many still left to play?
October 4th, 2007 at 11:24 am
Bridgett:
I’m not cranky. That was just a gross statement that you made.
October 4th, 2007 at 11:32 am
Thunderstruck said: “We just want the oportunity of people to have a choice. Q doesn’t.”
Everybody has a choice. You can resign, and six months later, start your own MLM, or whatever else you want to. Sounds fair to me. You can also not take the people downline along with you. Which also sounds fair to me: If I helped a downline build an organisation, I don’t want him to just one day decide he has had enough, and take everything that I have helped him build with him!!
October 4th, 2007 at 11:48 am
Alright guys…this is it. It’s over. It’s done.
I have sent in my resignation to Quixtar today. I came to the conclusion yesterday that regardless of who wins this lawsuit, I can’t build a business with a company with such a strong disregard for it supporters. I never did sign up for an AMWAY business, and I don’t feel like waiting two years for end of year bonuses. I don’t feel like waking up everyday to see if the rules in the business have changed. I don’t care to know what happens from this point on, because regardless of what happens, I am no longer an IBO or ABO. Looking back at the extremely difficult time I have had building this business for the last year, I am almost sad that I got persuaded to join. I could have taken this past year, and had a different business(yes, a traditional business) up and running and making money from it. I put those plans on hold so that I could build this in hopes of some big returns. Only now, the marginalized income i had is now gone.
It’s time to move on folks. Eventually this entire lawsuit will be just a old memory, and all we will have to look back on is how much time we wasted doing nothing for our future. I was once told that there are two types of people…one that makes things happen, and one that watches as it happens. I will no longer watch, as I need to make things happen in my idividual life.
So, once again…right or wrong, or if this drags on for a year, lets all stand up and move forward. For those that are going to stay with Amway, start building towards that future. For those with team, keep on keeping on. As for me, I am moving forward.
One thing you can all agree on I hope, is that this has been a good learning experience for all of us.
To tex and all the other hated bloggers out there, it’s been fun debating and discussing issues with you guys and good luck in your endeavors. It wouldn’t have been the same with out you guys on here.
And for everyone else, fairwell and good luck.
October 4th, 2007 at 11:56 am
I know none of what’s going on in N.America has anything to do with me but I can’t help following what’s going on…it’s like a soap opera!
It’s seems to me that some people are desperate to read more into these messages from Alticor than there is. Whether it’s to make themselves feel vindicated in their loyalty to their terminated uplines or what I don’t know. If the changes that are happening here (in UK) are going to happen for you, then it seems a real shame that so many people are going to turn their backs on a fantastic business opportunity. It really is changing for the better. People just have to be patient and wait til they have the full story.
One thing I don’t get is why TEAM didn’t just wait out the 6months/2year no-compete. If they wanted to quit that’s fine. But why throw a lawsuit into the mix and damage everyone’s business in the process? If they’re not developing another MLM then why the fuss over the contract? Regardless of all the fighting they’ve been doing over the years to reduce product price, it still doesn’t change the fact they’ve been profiting from an “illegal” pyramid. Have they been giving all their Quixtar/Amway earnings to charity over all these years?
I feel so bad for the people who have lost there upline and don’t know which way to go…I’ve been there and it’s a horrible feeling.
October 4th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Tim #27,
Welcome to the real world. It is really disgusting that such a prominent and so called respected IBO (Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward could act as though they are running for the United States President or some political office. Did one of the political parties send you over their campaign manager to handle the Woodward vs. Quixtar case or something? I can’t believe how unprofessional Orrin is acting. I can tell you this much. I have ALWAYS heard many of the leaders (IBO Platinums or above) many times discredit Quixtar to me and my friends. In fact they have criticized Quixtar to its fullest since day one, saying such things such as “A/Q is just the supplier, don’t worry about reading their rules, we’ll teach you everything you need to know, such as this is how you fake out the computer, so Q thinks you are doing retail, when you really aren’t”.
Not NONE of them…? Does this mean all or none?
[None of them] will say anything about Quixtar whether good or bad anymore? Sounds like they’re like the deer in the headlights, some leadership you have there.
All you ask as a former & confused IBO, is that you please return to demonstrate the professional manner Q has always epected you to do when you were an IBO? Why should they listen to a FORMER IBO?
Most of your existing IBOs have not resigned like you have and you have encouraged them NOT to resign and to wait and see what happens for their sake? Smart move, why didn’t you take your own advice you gave them?
However you are starting to think that they would be farther ahead to get a minimum paying job than to be involve with Q anymore? Then keep sitting on your sideline and watch.
October 4th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
NutriSystem plummeted $15.07, or 32 percent, to $32.50. The investment world just heard about the TEAM mass exit.
October 4th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Awesome products great prices TEAM has been left behind. Amway/Quixtar all the way!!!!
Upline gone doesn’t affect anyone, we can sale products and register others that do the same without any upline. TEAM isn’t the founder of BSMs, just their own BSM for BSM to sale BSM to those that like BSM, TEAM is all about BSMs.
AMWAY/QUIXTAR wins all around!!!
October 4th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Bridgett #28,
Great post. Read it and weep, TEAM. She’s actually doing the business you show.
DLSChicago #29,
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
mimi #33,
Amen.
Thunderstruck #34,
Get a clue.
Geo #37,
Bub-bye.
DLSChicago #38,
That’s a big part of the problem, you are only thinking about yourself, not the overall tool scam scenario. It’s all about you, you, you. Forget that you are part of a scam, you’re getting your piece of the action, everyone else can go Muck themselves, right?
G #39,
I agree, the rules need to be simplified. I think they have been “built on” for almost 50 years, without regard to how complex they were becoming.
I also feel frustrated at times with the need for “privacy”, but if Q exposed personal information, they are open to lawsuits, so it is tricky. It’s is even trickier when a built-in scam is operating.
When I called the rules department, and talked with a supervisor, 2-3 months ago to get an update on the TEAM Open/Seminar problems I e-mailed to them, they said:
1. They couldn’t tell me when the content of the Opens/Seminars would be fixed. At first they said it was private, until I explained I didn’t want to know what discipline was being done, only when the content was going to change, so I could bring a prospect without them being told lies. I asked if it would be days, months, or years to expect those changes to be made. Finally, they replied by the end of the year.
2. They also stated during the conversation it wasn’t any of my business, and I corrected them, telling them I reported the problems, and this was part of how my business was being supported, so it is very much my business. I was quite dissapointed with this attitude, but also understand these folks are probably under quite a bit of pressure, much of their day is handling complaints, etc., and they did stay engaged in the conversation, so I have to give them credit. I also thanked them and told them I was on their side, I just needed some answers.
There are definitely corporate culture and legal issues at work here. That’s why it is so important to stay focused on the facts, because it is so easy to stray from the big picture, with these other factors at work.
October 4th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
Bridgett #40,
If you know IBO’s who have been contacted in this manner, I hope you have or will report these cases to Quixtar.
Piet #44,
Amen.
matthew #45,
Bub-bye.
IBO UK #46,
Good points.
Conan_78 #48,
That’s interesting news, but what does Nutrisystem have to do with Quixtar or TEAM?
xsibo #49,
Amen. Just one caution, don’t get too caught up in a single product or discounting the value of a system. A good system that doesn’t create MASSIVE and secret tool profits is a good thing.
October 4th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
Piet,
Ok, let’s say I wait my 6 months which I am willing to do. I am choosing to leave because I do not wish to be a distributor for Amway. My upline is not “taking me” with them, I just don’t want to stay.
Likewise for anyone in my downline who chooses to leave because they don’t want to build a business called Amway. I will not be “taking” anyone with me, they just don’t want to stay. Some may stay, and I respect that choice.
So long as I don’t try to talk people into leaving, which I absolutely have not and will not do,(I don’t need to btw, Q/Amway is doing a great job of it with the threatening emails and just by the Amway name change) then all is cool.
On a side note, I am sure many non-TEAM affiliated IBOs have or will be leaving Q/Amway just because of the name change alone. They simply do not want to build a business called Amway and every IBO has that choice.
So, I think ……we agree?
October 4th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
IBO UK,
I do agree it sounds like a soap opera on these blogs.
Unfortunately, the reduction in pricing that is happening in UK Amway, is not happening here. It’s what TEAM was fighting for. So far, I have not heard Q/Amway make any statements about lowering prices in the North America.
I am wondering from a UK IBO’s perspective what happened to start the whole revamp in the UK. Has it been going on for a long time? Can you share some of your take on the UK story?
Thanks for your input.
October 4th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
My Bad. Is Nurilite and NutiSystem 2 different animals?
October 4th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
DLSChicago #52
The first we heard about the DTI court case was May 4th when Amway sent out an email to all IBO’s. They stated that the DTI investigation had been going on for a year, we had no idea about this, even our Diamonds were stumped!
I think there was a change in UK law a couple of years back and somehow Amway had not made the changes at the time to realine themselves with the new rules. There are various websites out there that are actively encouraging people to get in contact with the DTI to complain and disparage the company, going as far as to give the name of the person at the DTI to talk to. I guess the DTI finally had enough ammunition to take action. As far as I know the DTI has no problem with the tools at all, they objected to the way the business focused on recruiting no retailing etc…
This whole thing has been a MASSIVE shock to everyone. Personally for me it’s given me the chance to look back and evaluate my time in the business, take a reality check if you like. No one here has moved on, even our Diamonds seemed stuck where they were, there had to be a reason for this right? I think the changes are for the best, I didn’t think this at first, but the more I think about it the more you realise something has to change.
The EXPO was brilliant, I went to it in a really negative frame of mind, but they did such a stirling job I came out feeling pretty good about things.
Everything that is going on in the States has been bizzare, especially since we knew some of the people involved personally. I don’t agree with what they’ve done, but the way Alticor have handled it has been bad in my opinion.
I can’t only judge Amway on they way they have treated us here. There are issues I’m not happy with. I don’t feel they stood up enough for us, the humble, honest IBO, but I can see they had their backs to the wall.
I really hope you get the same changes there, especially the product price-cuts.
I wish everyone the best of luck.
October 4th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
Everyone I know is receiving letters from Quixtar about their resigning (the whole 6 month waiting periold thing..)..Where is our letter? I WANT my letter!!! Should I call Quixtar looking for it or just wait a few more days? Tex, your writings are CRACKING me up! Thanks for the laughs on this silly blog!
October 4th, 2007 at 2:44 pm
Conan_78 - have you never been an IBO? Why are you here? Why are you commenting on a company you apparently know little about?
October 4th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
DLSChicago
You are a breath of fresh air in this mess, nice way to describe our philosophy on people wanting to leave Quixtar, and how we are not trying to convince them. heck, I had 4 current IBO’s call me after this latest Quixtar email to say they now want out. The Q just keeps driving that spike deeper.
October 4th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
The take away is that we are moving forward?
My goodness am I glad I resigned my Quixtar business.
If you read those memos verbatim it states that you aren’t allowed to go to a gathering where the Quixtar business is not promoted…um, what if I want to go see Tony Robbins? It is also laughable that they keep beating the competing MLM horse…wasn’t it already proven in court that there is no competing MLM? Those who chose to leave Amway are, from what I have seen, keeping their noses clean and I think its driving the corporation crazy. And as an FYI, there hasn’t been a TEAM affiliated open meeting for about a month so…oops, I guess there is another chink in the credibility armour.
I also enjoy their, thanks for staying, but make sure you stay in line memo to IBOs who have had their sponsor quit…classy.
Again, I wish all the luck in the world to those who chose to stay. You have to do what you feel is right for you and your family. I’m just glad I decided to leave.
October 4th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Stick me with a fork, I’m done.
This will be my last blog. My upline said we should stay off of these and get back into the books. He’s right.
This alticor media blog has done nothing to help me. If I want truth WITHOUT the Amway spin, I can not get that info. here.
A note to my TEAM buddies: Remember, there is a media war going on, and the other side is trying to wear us down, get us depressed, etc. We should not subject ourselves to these lies and negative opinions. You may think they are not hurting you, but it does.
Go Team to 1 million and BEYOND!!
October 4th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Conan:
Yeah, completely different animals.
Nurtilite is owned by a privately held company. No investors.
October 4th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
FRED HARTEIS STATEMENT
Very interesting new post on the IBOAI Blog from Fred Harteis.
October 4th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
#48 & #53 Conan_78
NutriSystem is not related to Nutrilite in any way. NutriSystem is a weight loss system.
October 4th, 2007 at 8:27 pm
i found this comment on the amway website under faq, if were not employee’s why cant we leave hmmmm?
Are Amway Business Owners employees of the company?
No. Amway Business Owners are independent contractors and not employees of the company
October 4th, 2007 at 9:40 pm
Thank you so much IBO UK. I can only echo many of your sentiments.
I agree this is so bizarre. Q/Amway’s response to this was so unprofessional and especially uncaring to those of us who were building an honest business. I was really crushed. I seriously thought I did something wrong. After much investigation, I found I did nothing wrong and neither did my upline or my team (thank goodness.) I then became really angry with Q/Amway for implying that we did. I never got an apology, only more threatening emails. It became clear that Q/Amway was not really interested in me or my business. I was a pawn in this whole mess.
If the changes that are on the horizon bring good things to the Amway business I am happy for all who remain, I really am. I hope things were learned and eyes opened on both sides.
Enjoyed your post very much….good luck to you!
October 4th, 2007 at 10:30 pm
Tex #30,
Its not my position to release the names of the organizations that have gone to Team. I just know that there are more than the critics of Team realize.
I was thinking yesterday about what Amway would have to do for me to decide to start showing the plan again and guess what…I don’t think they could do enough now. Don’t get me wrong, I love the products (I grew up with the products..over 30 years now) but Amway would have to 1.) keep the Quixtar name since the IBOIA was 100% against it 2.) drop prices majorly on ALL coreline products 3.) give an appaulogy to all IBOs for the unprofessional manor that they communicated this mess
…even after these 3 points I realized I didn’t want to build a business that has this much more negative junk online that people can Google and find out how the corp really acts toward IBOs.
October 4th, 2007 at 11:17 pm
DLSChicago #52/3,
I agree you have your thinking out of whack if you are more concerned about the name of a multi-billion corporation than a tool scam.
I don’t know if the name change was planned to weed out some of the tool scammers, but it sure had the effect of walking into a kitchen at night, turning on a light, and watching the cockroaches scatter.
That’s funny. I used the “soap opera” term to describe the qblog site. There is much better conversation here, largely because I haven’t and probably won’t be “banned” from this site. In my humble opinion, of course.
The UK is several months ahead of the U.S., stand by for more expected price reductions. Have you seen the pricing on the new products? Pretty good, if you ask me.
The UK DTI (the rough equal to our FTC) investigated the UK business for about a year and wanted to shut down the whole thing. Amway talked them into allowing product movement for IBO’s and customers, and shut down the tool scams and sponsoring. There is more information on the corporate blogs and you can also google for more information.
IBO UK #55,
If the DTI had no problem with tools, why were the tools shut down, and are STILL shut down?
Negative Nancy #56,
Here’s a letter for you - Q.
ibofb #57,
The same reason you misinterpret the rules so badly, because he can.
Thunderstruck #58,
Ever hear of pruning a plant so it grows better? Cut/snip, bub-bye.
Trevor #59,
If there is no competing MLM, why did Orrin want to break the 6 month rule?
Actually, this reflects on his intelligence, not having something lined up prior to leaving. If he had it in place, he could have gotten started much sooner than he will with this lawsuit, which could easily result in an even longer wait, as his blog can be viewed as enticing IBO’s to leave and join his next venture. He really cooked his goose.
NG #60,
Bub/bye. Nothing quite like sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting lalalalalalalalalala when confronted with the truth and facts.
steven utah soon to former ibo #64,
You can leave, you just have to follow the rules you signed up for as an independent contractor when you signed the contract.
DLSChicago #65,
You and all IBO’s are much more of a pawn of the tool scam than Quixtar, whether you realize it or not.
Steve #66,
You have to have a “position” to provide names of other organizations involved with the TEAM system? Another point of reference as to why the tool scam has gone on for so long, there are a lot of gutless and spineless people out there. You’re even anonymous, for Pete’s sake.
Don’t hold your breath for Quixtar to submit to all of your “points”, I don’t see it happening.
Oops, never mind, the 3 points weren’t enough anyway. Bub-bye, Steve. Bub-bye. See ya, bub-bye.
October 4th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
MATTHEW #45
WECOME TO REAL FREE ENTERPRISE
UKIBO #46
I BELIEVE Q* SUED FIRST AND PUT A TSO ON ORRIN AND THEN SENT LETTERS AND CALLED IBO’S WHO HAD NOT DONE ANYTHING TO THAT POINT AND TRIED TO CORNER THEM INTO SIGNING EMAILS AND LETTERS THAT WERE NEVER MADE KNOW TILL THAT TIME. SO ORRIN AND CHRIS COUNTERED
TEX #50
WELL GOOD FOR HER AND HOW BIG WILL HER BONUS’S BE BECAUSE HER DIAMOND ISNT CERTIFIED WITH THE RULES BOARD IT WILL BE ZIP
SORRY BRIGETT NO CERITIFICATION = NO BONUSES AND WHEN HER CUTOMERS GET SICK OF XS DRINKS AND BARS THEN WHAT? BECAUSE THAT IS THE ONLY COMPETITIVELY PRICE PRODUCT TO MY KNOWLEDGE
THE MAKE UP? A LITTLE HIGH PRICE?
OH MAYBE THE VITAMINS OH REALLY HIGH PRICE?
MAYBE THE BIG BUCKS THEY GET FROM ALL VOLUME FROM THE OFFICE SUPPLY PARTNER?
MAYBE SHE CAN DO A DITTO ON BATH TISSUE?
DOESNT SOUND LIKE A STABLE OPPORTUNITY TO ME WHY WOULD THEY STAY LOYAL TO HER???
DOES SHE WANT ANOTHER JOB? MANAGING ALL THOSE CUTOMERS
AND….. YOU TOO CAN GO TO AMWAY ISLAND JUST GET 2000 CUTOMERS WHO WILL BUY OVER PRICED STUFF…..
IM BEING SARCASTIC OBVIOUSLY BUT THAT IS WHAT A/Q IS KNOW AS.
AND TEX YOU STILL HAVENT ASWERED THE QUESTION
WHY WOULD PEOPLE TAKE PART IN A BUSINESS THAT HAS OVER PRICED PRODUCTS VERY LITTLE LONG TERM VISION (WHICH IS SO EVIDENT IS SICKING)
WHAT KIND OF RESPONSE WOULD THE NEWEST IBO GET WHEN HE SAYS
“HEY DO YOU WANT TO SEE MY AMYWAY BUSINESS????
I KNOW “HE WOULD GET THE RIGHT RESPONSE FROM THE RIGHT PERSON WHO WAS LOOKING”
AND AGAIN IN Q/A WHAT IS THERE FOR HIM/HER NOW??????
I THINK Q/A SHOULD PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THERE MOUTH IS LET THE TEAM GO AND SEE IF THEY CAN GIVE THE BIG GUYS A RUN FOR THEIR MONEY
IF Q/A IS THE BEST OUT THERE IT WOULD ONLY MAKE THE TEAM LOOK STUPID RIGHT????
October 4th, 2007 at 11:27 pm
not the kings subject #68,
CHECK YOUR CAPS LOCK KEY. THANKS.
October 5th, 2007 at 12:00 am
tex 51
bridgett 40
i have also known of ibos that are not with team contacting team people and trying to get them to jump ship. to the amtanic.
there is a woman on myspace that put the quixtar letter(the one that quixtar told half truths about the wrongs of team” and has been contacting people that have orrin or chris name in their profile, better not let the team lawyers get that uh ohhh…
so if we took q* approach they are using against team then well what she is doing is q* fault, she is pressuring them and spreading q* well written letter of smear and half truth?
good business ethic would you agree??
im sure that will end up on the teams desk to pass along to a judge or something..
why does q* think the team is doing another mlm???
like before, if Q/A is so great why would they worry about them leaving (well why are they really leaving tex it isnt the tool business get real) and even if they had a competing business wouldnt that just inprove free enterprise?
and i was thinking about what you said about the system money
what is q/a going to gain from putting together a teaching system for ibo’s i understand its free will it every cost anything (or is it already in the huge markup of products) is being put together by follks who havent SHOW THE AMYWAY business since it was amway or are the going to get some of the real business owners to do them. you know the ones that start of each contact with “HEY DO YOU WANT TO SEE MY AMWAY BUSINESS”
you know the saying “you cant teach what you dont do
so which experienced ibo would they use hmmm
you really cant use sales stuff could you??
that would be like having a job right??
hmmmm let me check something
Independant Business Owner…. yep ok
or have we heard of the newest
ADBO
amway dependant business owner (or owned)
cant wait to hear or see that… lol
didnt they already try this once and then it mysteriously disappeared, i got that from the public access of the teams lawsuit.
i bet they are going to use the teams ideas of how the system will run..
see team you still may have made a difference yet.
October 5th, 2007 at 1:02 am
not the kings subject #68,
I think Orrin and Chris threatened the lawsuit first, and as they were high-tailing it to CA, Quixtar was rushing to the MI court. Appears there is a “first one there” advantage in the judicial system, so both sides moved fast. I’m pretty sure the letters, e-mails, and phone calls to the IBO’s didn’t occur for several days after both lawsuits (or even more than the 2 original ones) were started.
Her extra bonus may be zip, but not the basic bonus. If you think there aren’t more than 2 products that are competitively priced, you’re right, your knowledge level isn’t very high.
The makeup quality competes with other similarly priced high quality makeup.
The vitamins require more IBO training, as there are performance advantages that are quite unique. But if you don’t know the advantages, you can’t relate them to others, and should expect poor results.
It all adds up, but you won’t retire more than a few minutes earlier from the partner stores.
I support not buying the toilet paper (buying it elsewhere, of course), until either the price comes down or Quixtar drops it. Same with any other non-competitively priced product. But I also maintain the upline has helped the corp out by preaching 100% loyalty. It also makes their tools look cheaper. After all, if you can get people to buy expensive TP, why not a $6-7 CD?
Why do you insist you need a lot of customers? Each IBO makes a decision if they want a large or small retail operation. However, since customers don’t buy tools, they teach sponsoring, not retail sales. It all fits together.
There are plenty of products that are competitively priced.
We didn’t use the “A” word when prospecting prior to Quixtar, we didn’t use the “Q” word when it came around, and I doubt we’ll use the “A” word when we return to that name. Besides, any IBO with TEAM training is very good at not mentioning the name until the last second, so this should be no problem for them.
Quixtar already let TEAM go, all they had to do was NOT start the lawsuit, wait 6 months, and start their new “venture”. It’s now been almost 2 months, and all Orrin is doing is carrying his rule breaking reputation along with him. He may be required to extend the 6 months, given his obvious freetheibo blog recruiting methods.
How many times can one guy step on his own crank? We are finding out. Just Go, Orrin. We’re all pulling for a world’s record.
Corp Comm #69,
The first time I used caps I didn’t know it was considered in the blog world as yelling, so I made sure I went back to my usual sweet and humble self.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:15 am
rdknyur #26
thanks for respecting my right to leave, i find it necessary to continue bloggin the truth just like you continue to avoid it.
if you really have read the teams side of this you are definitly avoiding the facts.
your defending your position and your hopes and everyone has to respect that,
but what is q/a offering the newest person???
a opportunity???
what kind of opportunity???
you defenders of q/a are looking like intellectual lemurs over a cliff, you have no ground to gain from these law suits,
the reputation was already shaky and the longer q/a lets this drag on the less everyone likes them, or another reason to hate the pyramid scam that sues and threaten its own
“joe public” is already laughing “why would i want to get in that”
orthe newest ibo is like…hmm? maybe i will start to price compare.
then when they realize that there is law suits all over the world and they have the “deer in the head light” thing,
the team didnt do what happened in england or india and q* has another lawsuit of similiar nature that is totally not associated with the team but guess what its for the same reasons.
with all this stuff going on guess what no one is building the business, oh im sure they are showing the plan but with no or little results the fresh contacts already have heard about the”big bad internationally in trouble corporation” tried to keep its volume pyramid by threatening and sending questionable letters to a “friend” or a family member, or better yet, “they were in that once but the prices were ok or too high but they didnt make any money”
you know what im talking about, that is if you have ever shown the plan. that is if you havent go ahead see what happens
show them amway and they will tell you some GREAT STORIES, of how it doesnt work and all the great things they did in 2007 and who got jacked around in 99 when the switch over from amway quixtar happened, yep you wont hear about the charities they helped or other things they have or are doing to fix their reputation, seems to be the only reason they do it anyways, amyway is built upon the efforts of people and if they feel they have to work twice as hard at this then at their job then what do you think they will do?? they will work their job twice as hard instead.
they are already scared and they all ready have heard 20 opinions from 20 people on how it doesnt work. and if they catch a blog and it really doesnt matter whos blog, just one that slants the opinion one way or the other, you cant blame ibos for all the down falls of q/a, but you can say q/a is responsible for its own reputation. what going to get them in? a energy drink?? a make up kit??? please….
the team made honest efforts to leave quietly, if quixtar wins, who really won??? not the newest ibo for sure, and did the team really lose, THEY ALL QUIT a business that is stepping backwards in its reputaion and has done damage that will last another 20 years, i say that because the average ibo age is in the twenties and if the are pro or against, they will remember all of this stuff. (even if that is a bad guess it will be another 20) you achievers look at your groups
and lets be real, there is tex and a handful of pro q/a folks, that are all up in arms about the team, as smart as you may be you couldnt have a business in q* because you would have to be fixing all the damage (replacing) done from all this. the insider on utube,he is special, the rest are folks defending their opportunity and probably dont have any results yet, or very little (platinum and below, i say that with respect)
im sure there has been no qualifying diamonds on here sharing their wisdom, on this or at least no one has shown that type of wisdom of people or social issues to my knowledge on any of these blogs
i know that was long but i think it needed to be said.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:44 am
#43 NG,
What was a gross statement? “Hugs and big wet kisses”?
Hmmm, perhaps if you had an Italian grandmother who hugged you so hard you couldn’t breath, and smothered you with kisses, you’d know I meant it in an endearing kind of a way…
————————————————
And now, a song.
“What the world needs now, is love, sweet love, it’s the only thing that there’s just too little of.”
La la la la la la. Nighty night y’all.
October 5th, 2007 at 8:44 am
OK, so can someone please explain to me why if you hate Q so much, what are you doing in this site???? and can it be expained to me how negative coments about Q is not trying to convince other Ibos they should go with TEAM? No there is no presure, ofcourse not, just let it go then, let each person make it’s own decision without listening to those negative comments and focusing on the real facts.
I personaly don’t see what Q has done wrong. What corporation would like to be used, and then be back stabbed by someone they trusted aaaand try to use its ideas for themselfs, if those Ibos were capable of doing that to someone that supported them, what makes you think that they wouldn’t do the same thing to you, please those Ibos only care about themselfs. Talk about bitting the hand that feed you.
October 5th, 2007 at 10:47 am
NL #63
Q/A has their own version of a weight loss system, it’s called the name change. : )
October 5th, 2007 at 11:00 am
Tex #67,
I don’t believe I have seen your full name on any of these posts and the city you live in so don’t accuse me of being annonymous or spineless.
Diamonds that chose Team’s system have the right to decide if they want their name in all of this right now or not.
October 5th, 2007 at 11:29 am
#72 NTKS, thanks for your thoughtful and reasonable reply… I enjoyed reading it and thinking about it… will post back to you this evening or on the weekend… I’m out for the rest of the day. Whatever you do and are thinking, don’t forget to smile a bit and appreciate all the other good things in life.
October 5th, 2007 at 11:34 am
mimi #74
The reason that TEAM supporters read and post on blogs is because the corporation wants to enforce a clause in the contract that directly affects everyone that was an IBO. I could understand this under certain circumstances, but there are debatable issues that cause one to question whether or not this is a fair thing to do to the IBOs.
I, am not “angry” with any particular person, and no TEAM supporter should be either; I just want to have the freedom to pursue a business that fits with my goals. The Quixtar business model used to fit with my goals, and I had hoped that things would change to allow it to continue to fit them; however, the corporation has decided to go against the IBOAI’s unanimous vote against the business model and name change. This, combined with the fact that the founders refuse to fairly lower the corporate back-end profit to make the business more FTC compliant and fair.
I know, you think that waiting six months is no big deal, right? What about an Emerald or Diamond business owner who has made their business the primary income for their family? You think think that it is fair to prevent them from earning an income in their primary profession?
Lets look at a different view… take a plumber for a large plumbing company. The plumber earns his living repairing residential plumbing and selling plumbing products. Lets say that he used to work for a plumbing company like Roto Rooter… a name that people recognize; then, lets say that Roto Rooter went through several legal battles and were challenged on national television and by the FTC of not being operated legally. So, they create a “sister” company and call it Quixplumb. The Roto Rooter plumbers are given a choice to stay with Roto Rooter or migrate to Quixplumb. Soo many plumbers migrate to Quixplumb that Roto Rooter is closed down. Now, lets say that both Roto Rooter and Quixplumb allow a plumber to create an MLM business where they can earn PV/BV and volume-based profits from both customer sales and “downline” plumbers. This whole time, there is a trade organization that protects the plumbers rights and all plumbers were told that Quixplumb would not make any changes that are not approved by this organization, call it IPOA (the Independent Plumber Owners Association).
Ten years later, the Quixplumb business has stopped growing and the only way to show growth is for the company to change its fiscal reporting time. In that time, Quixplumb product prices have become higher than the competition and many Quixplumb plumbers are having serious financial problems because less than 5% of the Quixplumb sales are from non plumber customers.
Quixplumb decides to change the business name to Roto Rooter and to change the model so that Plumbers can’t earn any money without considerable retail sales; obviously they blame the plumbers for the lack of retail sales. The IPOA votes against the changes unanimously, and requests that the corporation lower its founder profit margins as well as the plumber profit margins to make the products more marketable. The corporation announces that the contract with the IPOA will not be annually renewed anymore and only renews on a month-by-month basis… and makes it clear that they will change the name to Roto Rooter again, despite the fact that the name became “infamous”, not popular.
One large group of Plumbers, including a large percentage of the IPOA board, resign and file suit against Quixplumb because Quixplumb added a non-compete clause to their contracts with the plumbers that would keep them from being able to earn a living as a plumber for six months; also a “non-raiding” clause that keeps the plumbers from having any business with the other plumbers they have helped.
Many of these plumbers have been plumbers for fifteen years or so, and plumbing is their primary income source.
Do you believe that these plumbers should not be able to earn a living because of an added clause in a contract that was never agreed to by most of them?
All the TEAM wants is freedom to make a living, doing what they know best!
October 5th, 2007 at 11:39 am
Ros Says: #16
“On the other hand, I do not agree with what Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady have done (lawsuit, etc…), making false statements about my Quixtar business”, I believe they are absolutely wrong.
This all reminds me of what’s happening with Rush Limbaugh. I was listening the day when Rush took the call and covered the story about the guy who claimed to be a decorated Iraq and Afghanistan war vet, having even earned a purple heart, but in reality he turned out to be a “Phony Soldier”. He was illustrating the kind of hero the political Left holds up as a hero. From that point on, the media picked up the story without ever hearing the original transcript. Sitting and watching our elected representatives on the house and senate floor making statements condemning Rush was surreal. Their entire POINT OF VIEW had been skewed by wrong facts! Blinded by their own ignorance much like the study of astrology is how the planets revolve around the earth.
Ross, your saying Woodward and Brady have made false statements against your Quixtar? First, it’s AMWAY. And, if that’s true, wouldn’t people be rallying around AMWAY? But in reality, AMWAY’s volume has plummeted and people are totally turned off now that the light of TRUTH is being shinned into the darkness.
Could it be that AMWAY is making false statements and allegations against Woodward and Brady and your Amway is wrong? What makes you so sure that they are right?
Maybe you sound to me like those elected officials on the House and Senate floor, condemning Rush Limbaugh and you can’t hear how funny you sound to all of us!
October 5th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
History Lesson
I have been in A/Q almost 40 years…. I am embarrassed by the way Q/A is acting!
Judges, Lawyers, Corporate people…do not understand the heart of the business!
Until you have been in the livings rooms STP…..you cannot understand!
You get the HEART by being involved in the homes & lives of others!
Without the HEART…. You are not capable of making correct decisions!
What happened to the HEART of Q/A…. did $$$ or attorneys take over?
Were Orren & Chris making a difference in many lives? …. Absolutely YES!
Because of solid depth was their earned bonus going to be bigger than seasoned high pins?…..
Could be!
Did high seasoned pins get upset because of lose of BMS income?…Could be!
Did many Diamonds join TEAM in the last year? .. YES!
Did TEAM have a fair for all, BSM profit sharing? … YES
Are most Q/A products over priced? …. Yes!
Have other LOS done stacking? …Yes, most of them!
Is foreign business built by stacking? … YES!
Does Q/A do stacking? … Yes, at renewal ever year!
Has PV been decreasing for several years?…. YES!
Incentives? Who is eligible? ….. Q/A’s discretion? Who at Q/A decides?
Did #9 on the 10 Points Tape describe the real IBOAI board? … NO!
Does the IBOAI board have authority in making decisions? … No!
Did Rich DeVos say no changes could be made without 100% board approval? ..YES!
Who has made Rich a liar ???? ….. Someone has!
Does AMWAY have a good name in the living rooms? … Not in any of the states I have STP!
Did the board approve changing the name back to Amway? …. NO!
How many IBO’s are in just for consumption at cost purpose only? …. MOST!
Did I write Doug DeVos my feelings? Yes, but no answer!
Now what could these 2 young honorable men have done that is so bad for all this negative crap to spread all aver the world???
October 5th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
isen’t it weird, the strw that broke the camels back on all this. Some political analysts saw positive reactions to some commercials that talked about the president of a company and a lot of republican wanted someone in the govenors office that they thought would make good changes for business in Michigan. This in turn was construed that the name Amway was now accepted by the masses. So someone in an ivory tower that has no or very little contact with the general public Says Quixtar is now going to change their name to Amway. Never following their own policy of getting it approved by the IBOAI board who are conected to the people and know the first question out of almost every contacts mouth is “Is this Amway? amd if it is don’t even talk to me”. now all this mess. The straw that broke the camels back.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
ibofightback #57 =========
Yes I was an IBO for some time. Nurtilite - nutrisystem. Had the whole Nutri thing going on in my head and pushed the enter button. One thing with the internet you can’t take back then enter button even if you want to.
My Bad
Conan
October 5th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Jake #75,
Dead weight losses/cancer removal are a good thing.
Steve #76,
And you won’t see my name, because I’m not part of the tool scam.
rdknyvr #77,
Martha, hand me the insulin, I’m going into diabetic shock.
amazed #78,
You have an “amazing” view of reality.
Bill #79,
Reverse characters, and you have a good analogy.
Monette #80,
Isn’t this the same message from another thread? Ever hear of spam?
jack #81,
You don’t know yourself (jack). The IBOAI Board NEVER had approval authority.
Also, the IBOAI Board is so interested in protecting their tool scam income, they regard us at a MUCH lower level than Quixtar ever has.
October 5th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
tex #71
“I think Orrin and Chris threatened the lawsuit first, and as they were high-tailing it to CA, Quixtar was rushing to the MI court. Appears there is a “first one there” advantage in the judicial system, so both sides moved fast. I’m pretty sure the letters, e-mails, and phone calls to the IBO’s didn’t occur for several days after both lawsuits (or even more than the 2 original ones) were started.”
oh tex please speculation and “pretty sure” are like sorta and maybe
like im “pretty sure” 4:05 is when you got out of work in ada.
“Her extra bonus may be zip, but not the basic bonus. If you think there aren’t more than 2 products that are competitively priced, you’re right, your knowledge level isn’t very high.”
well put tex she is a excellent example of a over charged pretending to be ibo “customer” to q/a and im sure the corporation will do everything in its power to make her feel good about her being over charged,
you convinced me tex… you must really think you know more then everyone
you go a head and list those “more then 2 products”, and xs isnt a q/a product, the only competive priced product line. oh so yur right tex there are more then 2, 8 flavors of xs and 3 bars oh they have th xs name on them too.
“The vitamins require more IBO training, as there are performance advantages that are quite unique. But if you don’t know the advantages, you can’t relate them to others, and should expect poor results.”
yes the equvilant of a degree in nutrition “that would be a good example of this “ibo training”
“It all adds up, but you won’t retire more than a few minutes earlier from the partner stores.”
interesting statement tex, are you retired from the quixtar business plan???
“I support not buying the toilet paper (buying it elsewhere, of course), until either the price comes down or Quixtar drops it. Same with any other non-competitively priced product. But I also maintain the upline has helped the corp out by preaching 100% loyalty. It also makes their tools look cheaper. After all, if you can get people to buy expensive TP, why not a $6-7 CD?”
all the bathroom stuff is over priced tex please intellectual honesty here, i know your here to keep the q/a lovers excited and your putting on a show for us all.
if the tool system is so bad, why is q/a putting together a system to “train ibo’s”
so what if system was free????
who would pay the actors, because they cant use ibo’s that would be favortism right?
“Why do you insist you need a lot of customers? Each IBO makes a decision if they want a large or small retail operation. However, since customers don’t buy tools, they teach sponsoring, not retail sales. It all fits together.”
well what the customer sales/volume rule?
30% of your volume must come from cutomers, and which of these 35% profit margined products are ibos going to sell, to them???
oh i know you could hand them out as samples “so free” i see the profits coming in now….wow
and well you have to have 10 customers at least right you might as well have 2,000 because maybe a few (2) will do 10pv and then wow your closer to retirement like you said earlier.
all that to make sure you get your bonus ya whoooo.
“There are plenty of products that are competitively priced.”
oh here we go again
and yes i know, no store has the cheapest, and q/a “isnt trying to compete” with other stores, well tex when you are dealing with consumables THEY BETTER TRY.
“We didn’t use the “A” word when prospecting prior to Quixtar, we didn’t use the “Q” word when it came around, and I doubt we’ll use the “A” word when we return to that name. Besides, any IBO with TEAM training is very good at not mentioning the name until the last second, so this should be no problem for them.”
LOL that is because it had a bad rep. then, like it does now, and you are right, when you want your goals and dreams, you want to make sure this new person understands the possibility q/a offers, even though they have a terrible reputation and will for another 40 years i think the team for the last 8 years W Q/A APPROVAL did it the best, oh and now that the truth is out about how the bonuses are calculated and the crazy 30-35% profit margins are out im sure all the non ibo are lining up to get in “mark up” jay claws central.
“Quixtar already let TEAM go, all they had to do was NOT start the lawsuit, wait 6 months, and start their new “venture”. It’s now been almost 2 months, and all Orrin is doing is carrying his rule breaking reputation along with him. He may be required to extend the 6 months, given his obvious freetheibo blog recruiting methods.”
you know what, you dont work in ada you must be a dj cuz you can spin it with the best of them, i ask you once again, intellectual honesty
why dont you tell that again but REMEBER THE PART about the SLANDER AND THE THREATENING EMAILS that were sent out to ibo in team GET READY TO DANCE EVERYONE “DJ TEX IS AT THE TURNTABLE.”
“How many times can one guy step on his own crank? We are finding out. Just Go, Orrin. We’re all pulling for a world’s record”
i got a better question, if you are a ibo, and its pretty obvious that you are, is your business even the same size of the one orrin let go of? and well you are on hear so much, i have to conclude the answer is no, so there is no possible way you could ever understand what that man is thinking, really, you probably have not helped as many people as he has, the one thing you will be known as is the one who didnt believe.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:31 am
ILL PREDICT THIS
DEVOS WONT WIN GOVERNOR NEXT TIME EITHER
THIS JUST LOST HIM 2% MORE
HE LOST BY 3%
AMWAY OR NOT
October 6th, 2007 at 1:10 am
Tex #83,
I hope the story was a good read; I noticed a few things I might have edited if this blog allowed… but it presented the point I wanted to make. I simply believe that it would be in everyone’s best interest if the non-compete were eliminated as it is in Europe.
Let’s make all of this a little less of a fight and have some fun… a race to 1 Million… Amway gets a bit of a head start since we aren’t free from the non-compete at this time.
October 6th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
ntks #84
The CA judge’s decision to DISSMISS WITH PREJUDICE said Orrin filed August 9, in CA, and Quixtar filed August 10, in MI. So, as usual, I am right.
And you would be wrong that I got out of work in Ada at 4:05, as usual.
“…you must really think you know more then everyone”. No, just you. Such as using the word “than” instead of “then”, in the above sentence. You make the job of slamming you much too easy.
XS may not be manufactured by Quixtar (or more accurately, Access Business Group), but it is a full PV/BV item and Quixtar IBO’s are the exclusive distributors. I just checked the site, and noticed the concentrate gallon jugs have been replaced by 4 1 Liter bottles, making this products not only more convenient to use, but I believe it is the same price as the gallon, and we get more more product for the same cost and PV/BV. Too bad you’re no longer an IBO, because the business is getting “gooder and gooder”, and they don’t even announce all the changes, but we still get them. Think I’ll go back and see what other positive changes have been made.
You don’t need “the equvilant of a degree in nutrition” to effectively promote Nutrilite to other IBO’s and customers, but it would help. That’s the problem with the tool scam, it creates a “someting for nothing” mentality that Rich DeVos talked about in the “Directly Speaking” tapes.
What do you mean by “…are you retired from the quixtar business plan???”? I could interpret that in a couple of ways.
Not all the bathroom stuff is over priced. You could find some that was price competitive, if you were still an IBO.
You asked, “if the tool system is so bad, why is q/a putting together a system to “train ibo’s””? I think you answered your own question, read your statement again.
Who said the entire training system had to be free? QU is, however.
I think one of the people in one of the videos I saw is an IBO, but they could easily be Quixtar employees. You don’t need professional actors to conduct training.
You asked, “well what the customer sales/volume rule?” What about it?
You don’t understand the retail requirements. You probably didn’t do any retail, so that makes sense. The 30% has to with inventory loading, no retail sales. The 50PV/10 customer/$100 rule is for retail. This may amount to more, the same, or less than 30%, it depends on your personal volume and which part of the rule you use. You also don’t have to sell at the retail price. I don’t think QU covers this area, but it should be added to the course. Thanks for mentioning it, I will provide input to Quixtar after I complete the next module. You wouldn’t know about feedback, because TEAM didn’t want any. They just wanted you to play “follow the leader.”
Also, you can’t consider giveaways as retail volume. You also can’t count burying the stuff in your back yard as retail either, just in case you were wondering.
If you had been paying attention to the UK, rather than being engrossed in TEAM, you would have noticed UK prices have come down in a lot of areas, and Quixtar has announced a transformation, a part of which is lower prices, and we have already seen some of this happening. They are doing better than “trying”, they are “doing”.
LOL that bad rep. came from YOUR heros, the tool scammers. TEAM had approval to follow the rules, which they did not do. Repeatedly. What’s wrong with a 30-35% profit margin for the corp. that is the manufacturer, distribution system, and sales point? You have a complete lack of knowledge.
You said, “why dont you tell that again but REMEBER THE PART about the SLANDER AND THE THREATENING EMAILS that were sent out to ibo in team GET READY TO DANCE EVERYONE “DJ TEX IS AT THE TURNTABLE.”” No need to repeat it, it was accurate and clear the first time. There was no “SLANDER AND THE THREATENING EMAILS” sent by Quixtar, all they did was ask IBO’s whether they were going to follow the rules, and invited them to leave if they didn’t want to follow the rules.
It’s bigger than Orrin’s is now, and that’s all that matters. I am on “here” so much, not “hear” so much. I know what the man was thinking, it was (and probably still is) the same thing every other tool scammer thinks, “How can I rip off my IBO’s even more?” I definitely haven’t “helped” nearly as many people as he has, but I have bought their tools after they went broke and quit, for pennies on the dollar, which is apparently more than Orrin was willing to pay. I am known as the one who wouldn’t allow the tool scam to continue.
October 6th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
ntks #85,
Getting rid of the lying cowardly “kingpins” in the TEAM system should get him 10% of the vote, stand by for “Governor DeVos” after the next election.
amazed #86,
Which story are you talking about? What makes you think the non-compete was done away with in Europe? Got a reference for your statement?
Let’s make all of this a little less of a fight and have some fun… a race to 1 year. Will TEAM survive for 1 year?
October 6th, 2007 at 8:08 pm
Just some random input on the product pricing issue . . .
Aside from the fact that I actually find many of our product lines to be competetively priced, the new makeup being released (it’s on A/O now) is great for people wanting a good price point makeup, and I’ve had friends asking about it since last month . . . also, just in the past 3 days, I have had 3 (possibly 4) new customers request orders for various Simply Nutrilite products, and I haven’t even tried to sell them — I was just drinking the drinks and talking about the vitamins at work and at the park.
I don’t think anyone should be having problems selling retail at this point.
October 7th, 2007 at 1:36 am
NL
You must think people are stupid! You have new customers for a product that you never tried to sell?? How did they hear about it? Look have some integrity! Nobody just happens to pick you out of a crowd and realize you’re an Amway distributor and want to buy a product that was just released! Nice try defending the corp!
October 7th, 2007 at 10:53 am
In regard to the non-compete in Europe:
“As part of this transformation, we have sent out a letter asking IBOs in the market who want to be part of the new Amway to sign an application to join under our new mode of operations — as “Amway Business Owners” — under a new contract.”
If the “old” contract could be enforced, there would not be a need for a new one; a