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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
September 25th, 2007 @ 11:00 pm ET…
September roster changes
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
We received word today that former Quixtar IBOs Don Wilson and Randy Haugen have asked the court to dismiss their claims against Quixtar in “the California case,” Woodward v. Quixtar. This does not end the case — but it does end Wilson’s and Haugen’s participation in it. Neither they nor their lawyers have yet offered any official explanation for why they backed away.
Earlier, we noted that court filings declared that Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady had resigned from TEAM… though a different court document contended Brady wasn’t employed by TEAM in the first place.
We’re certainly not the ones to explain to you what is happening with the lineup card of the other side in this case, or why. On this side, we can tell you that we are as focused as we have ever been on helping IBOs continue to build strong Quixtar businesses, launching terrific new products, and selling them to customers across North America.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
September 26th, 2007 at 12:25 am
I will be interested to know more.
Will all of Wilson’s and Haugen’s group of leaders that were forced by the Corporation to choose between the system and the corporation be reinstated as IBOs?
Are we getting the year 1999 choice after all?
September 26th, 2007 at 1:12 am
This case is taking so many weird turns, it can’t be good for Woodward and Brady to have people keep dropping out of the lawsuit they’ve filed.
September 26th, 2007 at 5:25 am
Wow! Who will be next? My guess is - Billy Florence.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:17 am
we really dont care anymore what alticor thinks.. the amount of people that have left is mind boggling… and their not all with the team.. so does it matter anymore the damage is done.. move on there is a life outside of Q/A.. believe me this crud that they are spinning is a joke… this whole thing is a waste of time.
September 26th, 2007 at 8:02 am
Interesting! Just when nothing really was happening then this bombshell. I decided not to follow my leaders to TEAM and sure do not want them reinstated. They made their bed when they resigned to follow like blind sheep, time for them to lay in it.
September 26th, 2007 at 8:21 am
I find that it is usually better to wait for the full story than to speculate or assume. Of course, I realize that in this wonderful world of blogging, many simply can’t help themselves.
September 26th, 2007 at 8:27 am
Moderator,
Wrong headline. This isn’t a “lineup change”. Nobody replaced Don and Randy in the lawsuit, did they? Let’s nominate some alternatives. How about Laurel and Hardy? On second second thought, TEAM is all about growth, so how about the 3 Stooges?
It is a mass defection. The headline should be “Cuban/Soviet Quixtar team defects”. Too bad we don’t want them back, either. Happy retirement, Don and Randy. It was “nice” getting ripped off by you via inflated tool prices. Enjoy your retirement tool-funded homes, cars, planes, boats, travel, etc.
Don and Randy have seen enough prior lawsuits to know they don’t stand a chance to win this one. They were the only thing that provided hot-shot Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward some credibility. As far as I know, Florence never had a single Diamond, Don and Randy had at least a couple dozen. Looks like the TEAM will soon consist of Orrin and Chris, unless Chris wakes up as well….JUST GO, TEAM.
September 26th, 2007 at 9:00 am
I won’t be shocked if Billy & Chuck fall out next. This isn’t because they are scared, I’m betting that they are streamlining the case to be mainly the Team LOS which doesn’t include Randy, Don, Billy, or Chuck.
No matter what happens people are resigning like crazy and a lot of people that haven’t resigned (myself included) are not sharing the Q business to anyone. I can’t share this business with anyone in good faith that it won’t hurt them in the long run. My integrity is worth more than this business. I use to love this business now it just sickens me. I have no plans to renew in Dec.
September 26th, 2007 at 9:20 am
steve I think you are right, It makes since that the fight is with the Team so the non-team members really don’t have a voice in the court.
September 26th, 2007 at 9:21 am
Tex,
I give you high marks for creativity in your post. You fail on content since there simply are no facts yet to support your opinion. Thanks for the laughs though.
September 26th, 2007 at 9:42 am
HEY COWBOY WANNABE~
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH you sound like Charlie Brown’s teacher……….a lot of NOISE but makes no sense! Wake up tex… put the green monster(envy) away…..get off your butt and go build your wonderful amway business and quit dumping your sewage on every blog out there. I’m sure amway/quixtar/alticor is very proud of you being in the business so long and not getting anywhere making it your personal mission to uncover the tools profit. They have people to deal with that so why would you concern yourself.. if you have so much belief in amway??? Or do you like to argue no matter what the subject or who it is?
September 26th, 2007 at 9:47 am
TEAM’S NON-COMPETE - THE REASON FOR PARTICIPATION?
Team has a 1yr non-compete which i think means people cannot be part of another bsm for a year?
Is this why Florence, Wilson, etc… are part of the lawsuit, that they have no other choice?
September 26th, 2007 at 9:50 am
If Don Wilson is smart - he will stay quiet.
Orrin and his lawyers are not shy to file lawsuits against TEAM dissenters.
September 26th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Never doubt that we are one Team with one Dream:) Everything serves a purpose to the end cause.
September 26th, 2007 at 10:37 am
What does TEAM call them…? is it the “Mighty Eight”? or is it Eleven?
Well now Haugen, Harteis, & Wilson are out. We probably won’t hear much from them b/c of threat of lawsuit during this heating time.
TEAM - are these 3 guys still “mighty”?
p.s. is anyone going to talk about how TEAM has their own non-compete? (i think for platinums and above)
September 26th, 2007 at 10:37 am
I have always been reminded from a number of Diamonds that EVERYTHING is done with specific intent. So in going with that principle, I am quite sure Don and Randy have a specific intent as to why they are doing what they are doing at this time. It might be good to go back and read: http://freetheiboblog.typepad.com/quixtar/2007/09/randy-haugen-sp.html to hear directly from Randy.
It only takes a mouth to have an opinion and it only takes a keypad here to have an opinion. It is much better to get all of the facts and think through things before jumping to conclusions. I agree with whatever #6.
September 26th, 2007 at 10:39 am
you guys crack me up…you will post anything that give anybody an inkling of doubt in what’s happening in California. Now, currently, as far as I know, this is the only post on this right now…so this is my take…
who cares!
seriously, win or loose this case, there are tons of people who won’t build a scamway business.(period) besides, this lawsuit is about a time frame, nothing more…a/q/a-you guys already lost, this suit is merely for our(the people) benefit so that we can pursue other morally right and honorable endeavors sooner rather than later.
so folks, lets not lose sight of the real issue…no one likes amway and the products are high priced as well as shipping going up.
Here is what i can deduct from those who stay…either you are naive and don’t see what’s happening, or you can take advantage of people by selling high priced products and have no conscience.
alticor media blog representative: you don’t need to keep kicking a dead horse…just lay out the facts and forget the spin…it’s not helping.
September 26th, 2007 at 10:41 am
dwillaims,
I think it would be good to look up the non-compete rule, I believe it means not being in a competing business (virtually any MLM and possibly even some non MLM business’) for 6 months from the last date you had a active IBO number. But don’t believe me, look it up or call the coperation.
And what do you mean by “Orrin and his lawyers are not shy to file lawsuits against TEAM dissenters”. Have they done this? It would be news to me, but that’s fine, I’d rather be wrong about something or somebody than ignorant.
It’s intereting how much chatter this whole situation with Team has caused, a lot of people have a lot of things to say. To bad we all seat in the bleachers on this one and none of what any of us say or think or blog has influence over what we’re saying, thinking and blogging about.
September 26th, 2007 at 10:43 am
dwilliams,
I just read your post again, sorry for misunderstanding you the first time. Are you talking about a non-compete clause with Team or Quixtar? To my knowledge there no non-compete clause with Team whatsoever so I assumed you were talking about Quixtar. Where are you getting info about Team?
September 26th, 2007 at 11:01 am
aem - yes i was talking about TEAMs non-compete. Its all over the net, including in court docs submitted by TEAM, that they have a non-compete also - Quix thinks its more strict than their non-compete.
p.s.
Haugen and Wilson - they were the ONLY TEAM-Affiliated members that were on the IBOAI Executive Committee.
So the two biggest IBOAI members are no longer part of TEAM lawsuit.
matthew - “who cares” - YOU DO b/c you are blogging about it.
I read Randys letter when it was released at freetheibo and just read it again. The dude can write the book “How to win friends and influence people” - no doubt. He is a Leader.
Now fact is Randy signed and willingly agreed on a Non-Compete contract for the last 3 years. There is no “negotiation” about it. Randy, take your great ethics, and leave the business, wait 6 months if you want to build another mlm.
go TEAM go
stay Quix IBOS stay
September 26th, 2007 at 11:10 am
SEPTEMBER ROSTER CHANGE
We received word today that Quixtar has asked the court to dismiss their claims against TEAM in “the California case,” Woodward v. Quixtar.
seems easy to spin anything you want with a typepad
September 26th, 2007 at 11:13 am
Moderator, great post, great tone, you’re doing a fabulous job!!!
Very interesting reading most of the posts so far, folks trying so hard to convince themselves that there was no iceberg, and the ship will arrive in New York from Southampton on time…
Quixtar/Alticor/Amway, whatever you want to call it is on a roll, and I’ve never been more excited. Just one small example — Interleukin study now published in a peer reviewed journal:
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/NYTU12225092007-1.htm
Wilson and Haugen know from experience what it’s like to be in court for over a decade and still lose (and I believe are still paying lawyers to appeal the last judgement against them), and possibly realize that life is to short to spend it destroying themselves following a foolish Don Quixote’s dream, now a nightmare.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:19 am
Or maybe that should be Orrin Quixote.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:33 am
dwilliams Says:
What does TEAM call them…? is it the “Mighty Eight”? or is it Eleven?
I like your question, but your vision is to small. We will be called
“The Mighty Millon”
September 26th, 2007 at 11:37 am
i’m sorry guys, i don’t normally post this much but i thought rdknyvr’s posted article was funny. in today’s media, i definately don’t take things at face value and i think it is hilarious that interleukin’s majority stock holder is amway…i mean, don’t you think that they would publish something positive about it…doesn’t that seem kinda…i don’t know. whatever…i just think it’s funny…typical.
in@win, do you have a source for your statement? just curious.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
Mathew, #17
I agree with you man, you and other obvious TEAM members in this little blog site have shown the reason we are in TEAM. LONG TERM VISION.
All the Q can do is focus on telling how great it will be and how feeble our attempts are.
It reminds of “The Incredibles” when they are talking about the evil guy always spoiling his efforts to kill the good guy by Monologing.
Oh, we have your number Q and your going to see a swift kick to face very soon.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
This is getting exciting.
I’m sure that Randy and Don’s exit from the suit marks a positive benchmark for TEAM. From past postings, I think the Quixtar would have spun this far more negatively than they did if they felt otherwise. They really don’t know what to make of this move! You can just tell from the tone.
Great things are on the way you guys. Don and Randy are indeed mighty!
Stay the course….Onward to “The Mighty Million”
September 26th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
“…..We’re certainly not the ones to explain to you what is happening with the lineup card of the other side in this case, or why…..”
Could it be that the “Company” has offered them some deal to rejoin the fold….all sins forgiven…? Maybe you should check with your legal department for the answer…I have a feeling that they will know…
September 26th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
I just re-read the first 4 chapters of “Good to Great”. It makes a whole lot more sense today than the first time I read it. It explains exactly what is happening today with Quixtar/Amway and the TEAM. What we have with the TEAM are some wonderful Level 5 leaders with a huge vision. By getting the right people on the bus and getting the wrong people off (the level 4 leadership of Q), they can figure out the details on how to get to that million quickly. We are so excited to part of this growing Learning organization. By the way, I and many others consider Randy to be a Level 5 leader also.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
IBO’s that have left quitstar remember this:
There is more to the story then we know! Orrin and Chris are MASTERMINDS, they have ALWAYS done things better by ten fold!
it’s better then you think!
September 26th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
I doubt that Randy and Don are backing down now, I bet when this all unfolds will find out there was a good reason why. Like #27 said if this was positive for Quixtar they would have spun a more negative outlook for the TEAM.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
jthompson: Please stick with ‘jthompson’ or your more recent nickname. Leaving comments using the name of a well-known celebrity in a manner meant to incite? Can’t let you do that.
We’ll gladly approve your comments in moderation once you oblige. Thank you for your cooperation.
UPDATE: You both share the same IP address, and the tone and style of your writing is very similar. Fair enough, we’ll give you the benefit of the doubt but we still need you to pick another name for your comments to be approved.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
Matthew, Chris, that’s exactly my point… the Interleukin Genetics article in CNN Money openly acknowledges Alticor is the majority shareholder — nothing hidden there — and if you trace it back, it is just the IL Genetics press release. From your reply it’s clear that you don’t get what it means, and that’s OK… lots of us do see what this portends, and are running with it. From your reply it’s clear that you don’t see where it’s going, and that’s OK too… a strong indicator that you would probably do better in some other business opportunity.
You run with your “opportunity”, and I hope you achieve your dreams with whatever you think you’ve got. What is also insightful, though, is how you feel compelled to introduce a violent tone into your commentary — “swift kicks to the face”? Is that what your mastermind Orrin teaches?
September 26th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
Sparta, Doublehook, et al. So what is YOUR explanation for Don and Randy throwing in the towell (otherwise known as coming to their senses)? Got one that actually works? Maybe it’s part of some big super legal head fake to deke Alticor out? Or head fake the judge? And if more start backing out (leaving you out on a limb), will that be another super duper head fake? The beautiful thing about the Alticor Blogger is that he/she doesn’t HAVE to say more or make more of it than they have… just let it unfold however it will… the events are speaking for themselves more eloquently than any words!!!
September 26th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
rdknyvr, et al: For the record, we first mentioned Interleukin over a year ago.
Yes, we’ve been blogging for quite some time
And now, back to our regular programming…er, topic.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
rdknyvr: how old are you…
I don’t appreciate your tone or your arrogant remarks directed toward me. I didn’t say anything slanderous towards you or your post; rather just a comment on your article. For your information, I do understand what the article means, and what it can possibly do for those that stick around, and I think it’s great.
Perhaps, when you get a little older you might be able to more adequately infer what an author is saying in written word. As for the “violent tone”, you must be mistaken for some good old classic humor. But whatever…you wouldn’t understand because you are in the mode of defense.
You have been ever since you knew Q was going back to Amway. And I understand that; I would be on the defensive all the time if I was standing by Amway too.
Here is what we can gather from these friendly words one to another…You and I are people. Confused? Maybe. Right? Maybe. Either way, there is room in this world for more individuals that can speak uplifting words to one another. More room for individuals that can add to our society in a positive way. We don’t need any more cutting remarks and put-downs, especially from the people that hold the same basic ideals and values that we teach in this business(yours or mine).
This is the point to all of this…this blog i’m sure is a place to debate the events that are taking place. This is not a place to attack each other and tear each other down. Please refrain from the insults, and understand that one of the many freedoms that we enjoy is the freedom to have our own opinion.
With that said, good luck RDKNYVR in your endeavors and hopefully everything will calm down soon and we can all return to building our ventures.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Whoa…hold on folks! The poster that said “…with the TEAM… everything is done with specific intent” is absolutely right. I would think that if Randy and Don have been (or are currently) involved in other lawsuits, then removing them from the class action case would simply limit their personal exposure. Removing them doesn’t have any impact on the case, yet it protects Randy and Don. I think this is just another great example of how the TEAM protects it leaders. We all know where Randy and Don stand on the issues. If you forgot read this: http://freetheiboblog.typepad.com/quixtar/2007/09/randy-haugen-sp.html
Quixtar is really reaching here to find a glimmer of hope…
September 26th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Hey Tex,
Argueing argueing early and late if a line was crooked you would argue it strait. keep trying
September 26th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
rdknyvr,
1. The kicks to the face is a metaphor you doof.
2. I dont need you to tell to keep following my dream.
3. If you and your Alticorupt cronies careda about dreams they would have lowered their average 190% markup on product.
4. You have the tone of living in france as an american hater.
September 26th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
LESS THAN 4 1/2 MONTHS! FIRED UP!
September 26th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
I used to feel anger towards the business when I was trying to do it the way my upline taught me. Almost every single word out of his mouth regarding how to build this business was and is wrong–and this guy’s a Diamond! (Or at least he hit it ONCE.) I have stopped focusing on sponsoring and have committed myself to building a large retail business and helping those in my group who want to, to also build a large retail business. I’m beginning to see results and it’s only been a couple of months. I’m again starting to have fun with it. We all signed up in this business to be DISTRIBUTORS of the company’s products. The money comes after that. THEN you can achieve your personal goals.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
So who is this guy “Johnny Moses”
who’s on all the blogs as if he knows us?
His every snide post
is in support of this host;
is he merely some Amway brown-noser?
September 26th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Doesn’t anyone remember how Alticor puts their spin on everything? Remember their previous blog entry that stated that TEAM was utterly defeated because Q won 3 temporary retraining orders against TEAM, but leaving out the part that TEAM had won 11 temporary restraining orders against Q? Let’s just wait until all of the facts are heard, not just Alticors spin on it.
Also, did anyone check out the link on the word “products” at the end of their blog? It takes you to a section of the Q site where anyone can purchase the products and without having to enter an IBO or Customer number. So it looks like that means that Q is now selling products directly, keeping ALL of the profits (not IBO is getting the PV/BV) and competing directly with other IBO’s. (Isn’t there a non-compete clause somewhere?) Just another reason why I am glad I resigned my business.
September 26th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
dwilliams,
I’m very interested in this non-compete clause team has. Which court document did you see it in?
September 26th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
or can anyone else tell me where I can find reliable information on teams (claimed) non-compete.
September 26th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
There is no doubt this is a strategic move by the Team attorneys! Randy and Don are too deep into this mess to leave. This should worry Q! What could these attorneys be thinking? The Team attorneys keep winning the head to head battles with brilliant strategy! Run hard Randy we will see you on the other side of this battle!
September 26th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
Steve #8/Chris #9,
Nice spin, you guys running for political office or something?
whatever #10,
What do you mean by “no facts”?
driven #11,
I will build my business when the tool scam has been fixed.
dwilliams #13,
I think Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward has his hands full as it is, he doesn’t need to start another lawsuit. Don Wilson probably has so much dirt on Orrin after being associated/aligned with him for the past several months/years it would make a sailor blush.
IN@win #14,
Yes, and the purpose of the Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward lawsuit is to put the paper it is written on into the compost pile for fertilizer.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
A response for Randy and Don posted on the Free the IBO Forum:
Good evening ladies and gentlemen. No doubt that you have seen the Alticor Media Blog post that Don Wilson and Randy Haugen have removed themselves from the California case. Below is a joint statement that I have been authorized to release on their behalf as they both remain good friends of mine.
Effective September 25 both Don Wilson and Randy Haugen chose to voluntarily dismiss themselves from the Woodward et al vs. Quixtar et al lawsuit filed in Federal District Court in Los Angeles, California.
The removals were without prejudice and for technical reasons related to another matter not affiliated with Team.
Both Randy and Don are very disappointed that the dispute between themselves, along with others, and Quixtar, which includes people on staff at Quixtar with whom they worked and respected for so many years has deteriorated to the level that exists today. The continuing action does not have the characteristics of a win/win scenario, which is our goal.
On August 9th several key IBO leaders, including Randy, attended a face to face meeting with representatives of Amway/Quixtar, with whom they have known and worked with for years. The purpose of this meeting was to discuss why these business leaders could not move forward with the Amway business transformation and to discuss how all parties would conduct themselves in light of these events.
This remains their goal today. Define the contractual obligations owed to Quixtar in a reasonable manner, meet those obligations and see what life brings them in the future. That is it –no more complicated than that.
Our plea to Amway/Quixtar is to discuss an amicable resolution of this dispute.
Ron Simmons on behalf of and with approval from Don Wilson and Randy Haugen.
September 26, 2007
September 26th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
matthew #36,
How’s this for an “uplifting” comment? I’d happily “uplift” my size 13 shoe into Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward’s backside. “Uplifting” enough for you?
qreilly #37,
You probably don’t know Don and Randy both have experience with turning on their fellow IBO’s. Google Amway/Quixtar and Joe Morrison and Bruce Anderson to find out what kind of “buddies” they have proven themselves to be.
Warriors in the field #38,
Nice poem, too bad it doesn’t mean anything.
makingadifference #40,
Don’t get too fired up, Quixtar may be able to extend the standard 6 month/2 year criteria, based on the actions of Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward & Co.
toomuchtex #42,
I liked the #38 poem better, yours is a little strained sounding. For the record, I have been critical of A/Q as well, especially when it comes to not taking action against the tool scam for over a quarter of a century after knowing about it.
hartazo #43,
Why do you keep spewing your 11-3 garbage? The only TRO’s TEAM has won have been without Quixtar being present, because TEAM has been running all over the country, and even lost on 3 occasions when Quixtar wasn’t there. That’s like losing a tennis match without an opponent across the net from you. The 3 Orders Quixtar won were with TEAM also present, making these decisions MUCH more legally meaningful.
Same deal with your garbage about Quixtar selling directly to the public. They have never done this, and there are NO signs they intend to do so. Your little girl “the sky is falling” hysterics isn’t making me look up. You need to get a clue.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Also, I did notice that the Haugens remain on the Team speaking schedule so they are certainly not in the Team doghouse for this action.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
rdknyvr, [#22]
I’m impressed you found that article about Interleukin. It is no small achievement to be published in “Nature” and you have to have all your research “ducks” in order to get the job done. This includes subject matter, testing methods, and many other things. The “botanical supplement” they talk about is non other than our “Nutrilite IL1 Heart Health Nutrigenomic Supplement.”
This is a product that can save people’s lives, if they know what it’s about. For instance, it does a person no good unless they have a variant IL1 gene. And how does one find that out? Take the “Gensona Heart Health Genetic Test.”
Now all of those are expensive products. The Gensona test is $199.00, and the IL1 supplement is $69.95 a bottle. But these are not fake-out products — they are the real McCoy. By comparison, a “DNA Tribes” test to look for your ancestry is $199.00, other genealogy DNA tests run up to $839.00.
As for the supplement, it’s hard to make a comparison, because nobody has makes a supplement like this one. Other companies may say their supplement contains, say, acerola cherries. But when you see how much acerola is in their product, it comes out to putting a couple of drops of milk in water and saying, “contains milk.” There’s not enough in there to do any good.
In order to sell these products, you have to know the product and know how to explain it. How many here have taken the time to learn the differences between ours’ and others’ products? It’s the only way to sell upscale, exclusive products like this.
The money Alticor invests in this stuff is so we can have cutting edge science to sell; exclusive products that no one else has. But that exclusivity only lasts for so long, and then the competition starts catching up.
Alticor invests the money so we can sell the product and make money. That’s how much faith they have in us. Do you have faith in Alticor? Are you good enough to sell these products.
“We’re looking for a few good (wo)men.” If you can’t measure up, perhaps there needs to be a roster change in field sales force. Something to think about.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:35 am
Well, after reading the comments ok’s by Randy and Don, I agree.
September 27th, 2007 at 2:10 am
1) I have yet to find a non-compete clause in TEAM. And if there is one, so? Unless and until that clause makes TEAM an illegal scheme it can’t be compared to Q’s no compete clause.
2) See the explaination for Don and Randy’s latest move on freetheibo.info.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:22 am
Sooner IBO #5
Have no fear; I don’t believe that Don and Randy want to build an Amway business in the “new” model of focusing on making an extra few hundred dollars per month for everyone. You shouldn’t have to worry about that anyway as Quixtar University will be your new mentor now. I wish you luck, your gonna need it
Tex JThompson (a.k.a. any name you feel like calling yourself), and others who somehow believe that you are better than others,
You guys are slap-stick at best… when you have thousands of people in your group, then you might have a leg to stand on. I know you like to put your two cents in, but aren’t your Amway Customers needing your attention to sell them more overpriced products, or did they start buying the products without using your ABO number already? A little suggestion, spend more effort getting your ABO number in your customers’ heads so you can earn your coupe of hundred dollars each month, and less time fruitlessly attempting to act as if you have any clue about how TEAM leaders think. It would take you years of reading the right books to even get a glimpse of how they think.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:27 am
Found the following from Ron Simmons, CEO of Legacy, on the freetheibo blog, my comments in brackets:
Re: Setting the Record Straight
by rons942 on Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:54 pm
Good evening ladies and gentlemen. No doubt that you have seen the Alticor Media Blog post that Don Wilson and Randy Haugen have removed themselves from the California case. Below is a joint statement that I have been authorized to release on their behalf as they both remain good friends of mine. [Can’t speak for themselves? I see, they’re not getting paid the big bucks to speak in this instance, as they are at the functions, so silence does make more sense.]
Effective September 25 both Don Wilson and Randy Haugen chose to voluntarily dismiss themselves from the Woodward et al vs. Quixtar et al lawsuit filed in Federal District Court in Los Angeles, California. [I suspect they are busy setting up the next Quixtar-like shell business for their tool scam to hide behind.]
The removals were without prejudice and for technical reasons related to another matter not affiliated with Team. [See above.]
Both Randy and Don are very disappointed that the dispute between themselves, along with others, and Quixtar, which includes people on staff at Quixtar with whom they worked and respected for so many years has deteriorated to the level that exists today. The continuing action does not have the characteristics of a win/win scenario, which is our goal. [I’m disappointed in them as human beings, taking advantage of others via the tool scam for decades. Your win-win with A/Q has been a huge LOSE for all but a very few IBO’s. Randy even stated many Diamonds and Emeralds had to go and get jobs, so the circle of “win” is small indeed.]
On August 9th several key IBO leaders, including Randy, attended a face to face meeting with representatives of Amway/Quixtar, with whom they have known and worked with for years. The purpose of this meeting was to discuss why these business leaders could not move forward with the Amway business transformation and to discuss how all parties would conduct themselves in light of these events. [Looks like these “manly men” couldn’t handle a simple change back to the Amway name, but I think the real reason is Quixtar told them the tool scam party is over, as has already happened in the UK.]
This remains their goal today. Define the contractual obligations owed to Quixtar in a reasonable manner, meet those obligations and see what life brings them in the future. That is it –no more complicated than that. [Good, at least they appear to be willing to follow the rules, for a change.]
Our plea to Amway/Quixtar is to discuss an amicable resolution of this dispute. [Quixtar tried to help you follow the rules, you didn’t want to talk.]
Ron Simmons on behalf of and with approval from Don Wilson and Randy Haugen.
September 26, 2007 [Thanks Ron, the entertainment value was priceless.]
September 27th, 2007 at 10:32 am
Tex, I would have had more respect for you if you hadn’t put your negative comments in there with Ron Simmons’ post.
September 27th, 2007 at 10:38 am
hey Tex I’m sorry that someone hurt you so bad that you have all this negitive energy. You may want to forgive and let God heal your pain before it begins to cause physical problem.
September 27th, 2007 at 10:48 am
aem #45,
Here’s the TEAM one year non-compete: http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Quixtar_s_Opposition_to_Plaintiffs_Motion_for_Preliminary_Injunction.pdf Go to page 47 of 56, Exhibit A, and you will find the non-compete, a requirement to keep the speaking fees secret, and the speaking fees themselves (so much for being secret, thanks for the information, TEAM).
Quixkicked #46,
There is no doubt this is a strategic move by the Team attorneys? Yeah, cut your losses, get out before you get completely stomped into the ground.
Randy and Don are too deep into this mess to leave? They’re GONE. Gone from Quixtar, gone from TEAM. Randy and Don “have left the building”, just like Elvis. Good riddance, Randy and Don.
This should worry Q? The other “kingpins” abandoning Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward should worry Q? I don’t think so.
What could these attorneys be thinking? If you are speaking about the Quixtar attorneys, they are thinking about winning the court case.
The Team attorneys keep winning the head to head battles with brilliant strategy? TEAM has only won head to head battles when Quixtar wasn’t present, and these are only TEMPORARY restraining orders. They even lost 3 of them when Quixtar wasn’t there, no easy “accomplishment”.
Run hard Randy we will see you on the other side of this battle? The only “other side of the battle” you should see Randy on is behind bars right next to businessmen of his ilk, like the executives from Enron, MCI, Adelphia, Tyco, etc.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:12 am
Finally everyone is waking up and realizing that the team “tools” were indeed a scam. Thats why I never got on “system”. Quixtar had a good idea and team had a semi-good scam.
Im happy team has fallen apart and the “leaders” who were so succesfu have had to get jobs.
However I do not enjoy the suffering of those who actually tried to build a honest business. But its good to see the top of the pyramid fall.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:50 am
Tex,
I also object for you posting your off the wall comments in the middle of Ron Simmons post. Just because you put brackets around them. You didn’t even put a space around the brackets, so someone reading them wouldn’t see it was you.
You comments about others involved, such as Randy and Don just show you are a jerk.
PS, tools are not a scam, just because you think so. That coming from someone who has spent thousands on them and not gotten a dime back. I have made tens of thousands in my other business based on what I have learned.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
tex, dwilliams
Thank you for providing the link (tex) and mentioning the non-compete (dwilliams).
September 27th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Big Apple #51, actually, I found the article through the good graces of the news features down the lhs of IBOFightBack’s opening page…
http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/
It’s worth skimming down the headlines there from time to time… so the credits go to him on that one, although I do check the Interleukin Genetics site from time to time.
http://www.ilgenetics.com/
And I think the journal is Nutrition, not Nature.
The connection to postin on this thread, however, was to point out one of many reasons to look beyond the dispute — even the stuff about Don and Randy — and consider how strong the Alticor companies are and the opportunity they offer, vs. some of our friends from Team (and yes, many of them are our friends in a larger sense regardless of what happens) who may not be aware how much bigger this is than a name change, and a nebulous new opportunity promised by their leadership.
Regarding a change in the field sales force around the DNA tests and nutrigenomic supplements and Personalized Health, I agree… but in this channel, that’s up to you and me and anyone else who sees the amazing magnitude of this opportunity and what Alticor is offering. Interleukin does have the option to put the tests, at least, into non-networking channels if we don’t do our job.
I’ve posted on this quite a bit recently at IBOFB’s site on the Nutrilite thread… background, resources, how to sell, etc. They do not require a lot of technical knowledge (it’s a self-defeating trap to think they do). This is my core focus from now on.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
#58, Tex
The speaking fees and the Team non-compete clause are part of a filing submitted from Quixtar’s attorneys. I am surprised they released the information.
I don’t know why Weichert Realtors Acclaim released the form to Quixtar. Anyone know anyone there?
I don’t know why Attachment A is even in the filing.
The Team non-compete clause doesn’t apply if you are selling BSM to non-IBO’s or to those not part of Team. It does not seem to allow Legacy to start back up and sell BSM to Quixtar IBO’s.
Right now Team is strictly a Leadership Development Service Provider (LDSP) and not a BSM provider. By doing that, I believe the Team non-compete rule is void. IMHO.
Go back asleep.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Hi all
I assume all the changes that have been made in the UK will be the same as the “transformation” talked about for the States…please correct me if I’m wrong.
Over here the business is now initially reliant on retailing (as it always should have been, but we all know that was virtually impossible because of the over pricing).Rebates can be earned on orders over £100, but you can only sponsor and receive bonuses when you have 5 registerd customers who spend (between them) £200+ per month. Now that we have dramatic price reductions for some of the cores lines, this new business structure will surely be better than before and will certainly keep us legal?
Since we have had huge price cuts I imagine that you will too in the States?
What I’d really like to know (assuming the changes will be the same for you eventually) is what part of this transformation Team et al have a problem with. The way I see it is that they have essentially got what they have been striving for with Quixtar in the product pricing cuts.
Is it the fact that Amway wants to take control of the BSM’s and effectively take away tools money from them?
Obviously I don’t know if the same changes will be made there as they have been here, but one can only assume they will.
Hope this makes sense.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Things have never looked brighter! I am so excited to see what the future holds……GO TEAM!
September 27th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
if u look at the non compete paper it was filed by quixtar. I have never signed any form that even come close to looking like the one they put into evidence nor have I had anyone sign anything like that and i have been in for 5 years.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Tex#58,
The non-compete clause doesn’t seem to be anywhere in that link. And why do you keep calling Orrin “Rosie”?
September 27th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
TEAM IBO,
Why did you never get on system? and if not how can you sit there in the safety of your Grandmas basement and tell us it is a scam.
I am on system and have been for 6 months and has completely change the way I run all of my businesses.
Dont sit there and make yourself look like an id-ten-tee(spell it) in front of people that know way more than you obviously do.
September 27th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Hey hey hey… check out where the extra money goes…the Devos AIR FORCE.
NICE
http://www.micaucus.com/michigan_caucus/2006/09/the_dick_devos_.html
September 27th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Have you all lost your minds? I can’t believe the things I’ve been reading on these blogs. Don’t you all realize that Team is not the first organization to have system tools? This has been going on since Amway started. Why is the focus on Orrin? He didn’t “invent” tools. Neither did Randy or Don Wilson or Billy Florence. Dont’ you realize this has been taught over decades? What were all you low-level IBOs working toward Diamond for anyway? At least Team finally had the vision to see that the tool profit could be shared better and at a lower level and tried to do something about it. But I guess you chronic complainers never believed you could be one of those sharing in the profits because that would mean you actually would have to work to earn it. There’s far more at work here than meets the eye. This is much, much deeper than the Team incident. It would be wise to check the history before you embarrass yourselves with your ridiculous comments.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
TEAM IBO: also, how is it a scam when the cd’s are only $6. each?? That’s not very much money to pay to get wisdom from someone who’s succeeded…. Plus they are motivating.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
TEAM IBO (sadly),
Please share the information you rely upon when you claim that “team has fallen apart and the “leaders” who were so succesfu have had to get jobs”. From my perspective, this statement couldn’t be farther from the truth.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
amazed #54,
I never claimed to be “better” than others. But that doesn’t mean I can’t call a spade a spade, either. The facts don’t depend on how many people are in my group. Do you realize how much bigger of a PV/BV business Don and Randy would have if their IBO’s had more retail? How much less turnover they would have if retail profit and lower overhead via lower cost tools? You are thinking small, as usual. I’m “amazed” as well. Amazed you don’t get it.
NG #56,
That’s not my style. Plus, I don’t care if you respect me, I am interested in getting the facts out, not “fame”.
jack #57,
You’re sorry that someone hurt me so bad that I have all this negitive energy? Nobody hurt me any worse than the millions of other IBO’s that were scammed.
I may want to forgive and let God heal pain before it begins to cause physical problems? That sounds like a “Christian” cop-out. Are we supposed to forgive and let mass murderers run loose in our society as well?
TEAM IBO (sadly) #59,
Glad to see you “get it” as well.
Utah #60,
Go ahead, object. I stated at the beginning the comments in the brackets are mine. What more do you want, flashing lights?
Perhaps I am a jerk, but if I am, I’m an honest jerk.
It isn’t just me who thinks the tools are a scam, the UK DTI thinks so, too.
Utah #63,
I’m not surprised they released the tool scam information, there has been a lot of good information released by the multitude of lawsuits over the years.
How much money is available (not to mention the small market) when selling to non-IBO’s or IBO’s not part of TEAM? You don’t get any profit until you reach higher pin levels. There’s no PV/BV along the way, as there is in Quixtar.
Right now Team is on the ropes, and it doesn’t look good, no matter what label they want to wear.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
IBO UK #64,
Time will tell what the “transformation” means in the U.S., but because of what we know in the UK, I can’t see how it can’t mean similar changes.
Retailing first used to be how Amway was structured in this country.
Lower prices should help retail sales and legality. This is a good move.
I think TEAM had the hardest part with the tool scam going away, and decided to blame it on the name change back to Amway.
I hope Amway wants to take control of the BSM profits and effectively take away tools money from the tool companies. Whether Amway or the tool companies produce the tools isn’t as important to me.
teamcolon5 #66,
It appears the form is for those making a profit from tools. Do you make a profit from tools?
Jerad #67,
It’s number 15 on page 50 of 57.
Note this is not a Quixtar rule, it is a TEAM rule. Looks to me like Ron Simmons and Chuck Goetschel lied, unless Quixtar asked for the rule. Which I doubt, based on messages on the IBOAI blog.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
IBO UK #64
Read the suit that TEAM filed at http://freetheibo.com/images/Complaint_with_exhibits.pdf and you will see that they tried for YEARS to get Q to do something about the prices. Q repeatedly promised to so something about it, but NEVER did. The only reason that Q lowered their prices in the UK was because the government there made them or they would be shut down. TEAM was afraid the same thing could happen here in the US. However, due to the laws here in the states, if the government here in the US realized what was realized in the UK, that the prices were too high, every single member of the IBOAI board could be legally liable. TEAM did not want this to happen and realized that the only way that Q would lower their prices was if they were forced to by the government, TEAM decided that the only thing they could do was file the suit.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
TEX, hi, it’s me again. You are not interested in getting the facts out there, otherwise you would just put the facts out there alone, without your opinions. Think about it…
September 27th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
#49 Tex
Did you even go to the site? Apparently not, because you would have seen that anyone can go to http://simplynutrilite.quixtar.com/ and buy products there. It is not required to enter an IBO or customer number. Just try it. There is a field for a referring IBO number but the site states that it is NOT REQUIRED. Therefore, anyone can purchase the products directly from Q. That means that Q is competing with EVERY IBO out there.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Tex,
Please state with specificity the facts which support your statement that TEAM is “on the ropes.” Was there some ruling out of the court today that we are unaware of?
September 27th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
A little off topic:
I see by the Team website that they’ve have stopped doing their ‘open mtgs’. Does anybody know what the sponsoring rates for Team IBO’s are now that they no longer have the ‘open mtgs’?
September 27th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Jerad #67,
Google “Rosie Ruiz” and tell me if you are still confused.
PP #69,
Imagine that, a multi-billion dollar corporation with jets. What a surprise. I would be more surprised if they DIDN’T have a few jets. Get a clue. At least they got the goodies without under the table, tool scam money.
Keep it in perspective #70,
TEAM is the latest example of the tool scam run amuck. These situations uncover important insights into the truth, with the court documents, statements made by the lying cowardly “kingpins”, etc.
NG #71,
How many CD’s per week do (did) you buy? How many dollars does that add up to in a year? It costs less than $1 to produce a CD in bulk, and we haven’t even touched books, other contacting and follow up tools, the Top 50, and the various functions. Now you know why the speakers are so “fired up” and “motivating”.
whatever #72,
This statement is more accurate when describing what Randy Haugen said about the Legacy group prior to being absorbed by TEAM. However, there will be many TEAM IBO’s who will now have to get jobs and postpone retiring, thanks to Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward. But hey, it’s not easy to get to a million, especially when you’re going backwards, right?
September 27th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
#58 Tex…Wow with that posting you have made my respect for my mentors greater and here is why… If my turbo 50 were to do both the open and the night owl this is how it would look. he would drive 150 miles one way (2 hours) 300 miles round trip (4 hours) assumming that he has a car that actually gets decent milage 25mpg that would be 18 gallons at $3.00 a gallon it would cost him $54, he would make $37.50 for the open and $37.50 for the night owl. $75 minus the expense of travel he would net $21 for that $21 he drove 4 hours, spent 2 hours speaking for a total of 6 hours. That my friend is $3.50 an hour
Now lets talk seminars….if you go to http://www.bigspeak.com/big-speak-speakers.html you will see many speakers for not wanting to worry about copy writes in mentioning their name but i have found speakers ranging from $10-40k and amazing they aren’t speaking on specific success. and The Team at best gets $9750 to teach me how to be succesfull…I am ok with that. Oh by the way for a job of mine I went to a sales train course the company paid $1250 for me to go it was a 4 hour training course. A 4 hour seminar with the team costed me $35 and while we are at it lets just talk about the cd’s I can by a book on cd at a store for about $12 and music cd at a store for about $15, the cost is not how much the actual cost of the cd is it is the value of the info on it. for $6 I get the info that I deem valuable. Please tell me how in the world the tool business could possbily be a scam, the only way for it to be concieved as a scam is if people thought you should do work and not get paid, lets get real, if our kids take out the trash for money shouldn’t our mentors get paid to help us.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
Tex you said
1. I hope Amway wants to take control of the BSM profits and effectively take away tools money from the tool companies. Whether Amway or the tool companies produce the tools isn’t as important to me.
My question to you is.
Have you ever built the Q/A business? (From what you say I think not and if so not big maybe 2 IBO’s)
So it is ok with you if the corporation makes the money on the tools even though they have never been able to build it. (And they have tried in the past)
The corporation knows how to make product and a BIG profit on us. Leave the teaching to the people that have built this business.
If I thought you or Q/A new anything about building communities I would listen and take your advice. (But you don’t) You must be a door to door sales man (good luck)
September 27th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Here is the TEAM non-compete
http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Quixtar_s_Opposition_to_Plaintiffs_Motion_for_Preliminary_Injunction.pdf
its like page 50 of 56.
If you are not a platinum on TEAM then you likely do not know that to get paid by TEAM tool system, you have to sign their non-compete. The length is not 6 months like Quixtar. The TEAM non-compete is 1 year.
Have a good weekend Y’all! I am going back to sell - its year-end right now for our billion dollar vendor who is our main source of income! bye!
September 27th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
am part of team,no more quixtar sep 26 was my last day with this selling thing,good luck i wish the best for you guys…
don,randy,lance those are my leaders for life…am follow the leadrs,not a company,GOD BLEES OUR FUTURE
September 27th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
Here are a couple of question for all you anti-Team people:
Do you think Orrin and Chris and Chuck and Randy and Don and everyone you are complaining about ever bought support materials from someone else before they got to where they are now?
Who do you suppose was speaking on all those tapes and CDs teaching them how to build such large businesses?
Do you think all of them felt “scammed” and “ripped off” while they were growing their businesses and becoming great leaders?
Have you figured out yet that all of these men started at the very bottom, just like the rest of us?
Strange though, isn’t it, how they were miraculously able to endure and persevere and be used and abused and misled by someone else’s scammy tool system, yet still emerge at the top?
come on, people. THINK
September 27th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
Tex#74,
That’s great Tex, except for the fact that as a TEAM member I’ve yet to see or sign one of these.
September 27th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Jerad #67,
Just google “Rosie Ruiz”, as I did. Tex thinks he’s being cute by not responding to your question …don’t give him the satisfaction of continuing to ask. Better yet, I’ll answer so everyone gets the answer ( if anyone else cares).
It’s obviously not a compliment
She supposedly won a marathon and it was then discovered that she cheated by jumping in from the crowd near the finish line.
Guess Tex thinks he can draw an analogy & make conclusions…sorry,Tex… Team members don’t care WHAT you think. I check in here periodically…really enjoy it actually, just for the entertainment value.
So where has our other “neggie nellie”.. jt,or jtthompson, or johnny moses or whatever name he’s using right now, been ? Surely, he’s not gone underground ? Maybe he’s just out mentoring with all those big name guys who love hanging with a twenty something who’s just drooling over the fact that he can be an ABO again in Dec …yeah, right !
September 27th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Tex
I just wanted to say thank you…. every time I read any of your posts on numerous sites you make me laugh out loud. It is always nice to have a clown in the house.
Thanks again buddy.
September 27th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
Tex
Oops, forgot to thank you for all of your time and effort to post. It’s good to have so much commitment to a job.
September 27th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
It doesn’t matter either way who wins the case at this point…what does Amway/Quixtar “win” in this case? Team members have to wait 6 months to leave…BIG DEAL!!!! The fact remains that product pricing is still to high no matter how we look at it. And who cares if people make money off tools? People make money off your vitamins, make up, socks…actually people make money on everything! Go make your own training system and you can make money too. The official blog of alticor looks like the bathroom walls of america…I thought this was a billion dollar business? I can’t represent a business that is run like this nor could i ever recommend anyone else to ever again. Good luck to everyone involved.
September 27th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Tex,
1) Support and Eduction is necessary to build a business. I support and endorse the existence of Motivational Organizations. They are very much necessary.
BUT
2) There is rampant abuse.
TEAM has x’ed themselves out of the equation, why not talk about some of the other big culprits that are out there right now that Alticor is not doing anything about?
For waht it’s worth, Joe Marckiewicz (of LTD formerly of BWW) has an e-mail on the internet in which he voices similar complaints to TEAM. He says “diamonds and emeralds are going back to work and people are not making money”. I think it’s a little worrying that a CURRENT Diamond in good standing is talking like Woodward.
September 27th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
Thanks for the help dannie!
To answer your question, I believe jthompson is now dwillians.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
hartazo #75,
Ridiculous. If the IBOAI Board had evidence they told Quixtar the prices were too high, that’s all they need, because Quixtar sets the prices. This is a lame excuse, because I believe the real reason TEAM got out was because of the other part of the UK action, the tool scams being shut down. This is where TEAM (and the other tool profiteers) make most of their money. The lawsuit was a threat that didn’t work, and was further designed to take the focus off the overpriced tools, which is backfiring.
NG #76,
Go to the trouble of collecting the facts, then put them out there without an opinion what they mean, and let people like YOU distort their meaning? No thanks.
hartazo #77,
You are wrong. The buyer doesn’t need an IBO number, but the volume STILL gets assigned to a nearby qualifying Platinum. If you don’t believe me, ask Quixtar or the IBOAI Board blog the question. You’re all wet.
whatever #78,
The defections of Harteis, Wilson, and Haugen are not good for Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward, no matter how you want to spin it.
ltrtltrt #79,
TEAM is no longer in the Quixtar/IBO business. They are in the leadership development business, according to them. Even though they wanted an “early out” waiver from Quixtar.
chris #81,
Do you think your numbers (mileage, pin level, etc.) are typical? I don’t.
The difference between the speeches you mentioned and the TEAM seminars is the others don’t require the amount they are paid (and the resulting profit) to be kept secret.
Do you and others typically buy multiple music CD’s every week?
The bottom line is most of the money comes from tools, and TEAM (and other tool companies) are afraid to admit this fact, because they KNOW their self-proclaimed “teammates” and “business partners” would rightly be upset with them. Get a grip.
Ron #82,
I’ve never had an issue with the content of the tools, and support (for the most part) the information in the tools. It is the lying about where most of the profit comes from, AND the fact it comes from MY back pocket, that is the problem.
Keep it in perspective #85,
Most of them learned how to scam people from Dexter Yager. This doesn’t make it right. It also isn’t okay for a very few who made it through the abuse while many many more lost big bucks to continue the immoral and unethical practices. Your argument has no basis in logic.
Jerad #86,
Do you know anyone who makes a profit from the TEAM tools, and have you asked them about this piece of paper? The other side of the argument is there is no such document (which goes against how fair the TEAM system is compared to the other groups, who play favorites and pay only the people they like), or Quixtar made it up to make TEAM look bad (which would be a very big mistake to submit to the court). Use your head.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
dannie #87,
TEAM members don’t care what I think? Good, the feeling is mutual, because I don’t care what they think, either.
in2win #88/89,
Glad I could be of service. I also have my facts and analysis correct.
JPW #90,
Sounds like you need your diapers changed. The 6 month wait was big enough of a deal for TEAM to file the lawsuit. Haven’t you seen the prices coming down in the UK, and the expected similar “transformation” promised in the U.S.? I care if people make money off tools, especially when they lie about how much they make, unlike the vitamins, make up, socks, etc. If you don’t like the bathroom walls, Just Go, TEAM. Good riddance.
William #91,
Good point. I have mentioned several times the other tool companies and resulting profits are much more like TEAM was than different. These companies don’t have a stranglehold on A/Q as they did in 1983, when they had much more control of the IBO’s (distributors in those days) than they do now, thanks to the advent of the internet and expansion of the business into many other countries instead of mainly the US and Canada. Getting rid of TEAM was only the starting point, and we need to keep an eye on the UK and demand similar changes here in the U.S.
You can’t have TEAM growing fast and the overall business being stagnant for the past decade plus, without most of the other groups declining.
September 27th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
Probably can’t for legal reasons, but can anyone confirm that TEAM vs Quixtar has gone to arbitration?
September 27th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
ibofightback,
I can say with relative certainty that it hasn’t yet. That may very well happen, but to my knowledge no such decision has been made.
Tex,
Speaking of “spinning” … your characterization of the decisions by Harteis, Wilson, and Haugen as “defection” does nothing more than illustrate your typical use of creative writing to make up for your total lack of knowledge on a subject. You don’t have a clue what is in the hearts and minds of these men.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:23 pm
I can’t decide if Tex is more like a fan or a vacume.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:52 pm
IBO UK #64 - you ask why TEAM left when surely we would be facing the same changes here as in UK? Couple reasons. 1 - They were advised by a few attorneys that they could be at risk of civil and criminal charges because it is clear, and they were made aware, that due to the overpricing of products Quixtar was in fact operating as an illegal pyramid due to the lack of retail sales as the FTC outlined. 2 - Amway had an ADA board that later became known as the IBOAI board. There was a contract signed that agreed that the corporation would make no changes that would affect the distributors business without board approval. However, this year Quixtar came to the board and informed them of their decision to change the name to Amway. The board voted unanimously against it. As a result, they were put on month to month and were told they would probably not renew their contract - that’s right, there’s a contract in place to prevent what is being done right now.
Facing potential legal risk, which the corporation put them in, they decided they could no longer promote this opportunity. Because Quixtar doesn’t actually show the plan, it’s the IBO’s, the leaders showing this to groups are at risk because we are presenting a business plan that there is knowledge it’s operating illegally. That is why action had to be taken immediately. They have a lot of documentation from many leaders about how for years they have been asking for lower prices.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
Moderator - I’m glad to see that you track ip addresses. On a former blog that was on here titled “T-R-O Nice T-R-Y”, Tex stated that he has attended open meetings and a BDS of TEAM’s, has cd’s, and he also stated he has cd’s of other groups. I pointed out that is cross-lining, which is in direct violation of Quixtar rules. What is being done about this? Quixtar, being informed of a blatant rule violation, should terminate a business. Is anything being done?
September 28th, 2007 at 12:19 am
Tex#93,
Of course I do. Still, I have never heard of a non-complete clause.
And I think that you and I have already gone over the whole “Quixtar made it up to make TEAM look bad (which would be a very big mistake to submit to the court)” question.
Yes Tex, they would and have lied in court. Repeatedly. About me.
September 28th, 2007 at 12:42 am
Keep it in perspective #85 - AMEN! Wonder if Tex has been in the business that long and why he’s not a double diamond. By the way he talks he’s been around that long.
ibofightback#95 and whatever #96 - it hasn’t gone to arbitration and won’t. There has already been one court ruling in Texas that stated the arbitration process outlined by Quixtar is a joke, basically. Any arbitration must be independent.
Tex, let me tell you who makes profits from tools on Team. Any IBO who has 12 people on one team on system, and 12 more outside that one leg, you qualify for profit sharing. By the way you speak, it’s as if you have been a part of a/q/a for many years. If that is the case, and you still haven’t built a business, maybe you need to take less time focusing on who’s making money on the cd’s and books and actually listen to them and read them (although you admitted you don’t read books that cost more than $1). Then maybe you will get a better attitude, which will actually affect how you deal with people and how many people like you, which I shall refrain from speculating on. Then, when you talk to people, you bring a positive message and they ask what’s different about you. Then you can tell them you are blessed with a wonderful business opportunity (however, I am not saying to lie to them, only say it if you mean it). Then people will want to know what it is. Then you can tell them it’s AMWAY and you might get to show them a plan (with a very, very strong emphasis on might). Then you can give them the QBOB that Quixtar tells you that you have to leave with the prospect (and you have to buy it also - wonder who’s making money off of that tool - are they going to disclose those profits? Of course not - they won’t let BSM companies disclose theirs, so why would a/q/a disclose their own.)
As for the IBOAI board having documents about where they told the corporation that prices were to high, there is. Just watch.
Don and Randy don’t do anything without a reason. Trust me - there’s a very, very good reason. Of course, you won’t know about it.
Tex, you’re a cross-lining indignant business owner.
However, I will defend your spending so much time on here blogging, I guess like a lot of us. It’s not like you, or any of us, really have a viable business to go out and build. What used to be nights filled with showing plans, doing follow ups, getting people started, doing house plans, or simply dream building are now relegated to this.
September 28th, 2007 at 12:49 am
TEX,THAT’S WHY NOBODY CARES ABUOT YOUR POST,NO THINKING GUY,,,UUUHH!! A LOT OF BARNIE BOOKS.
COME ON GUYS WE’RE MOVING FAST….AMWAY,ALTICOR THANKS FOR NOTHING,LEADERS THANK FOR ALL (TEAM)
September 28th, 2007 at 1:19 am
Tex and everyone else out there pointing to Team’s non-compete clause…
First, I am fairly new to Team and am not in a position yet to make money from the system. That being said I have never seen that form let alone signed it.
Secondly, comparing Team’s non-compete to Quixtar’s is very different…
(Assuming the form is still used today..) You see, a new IBO can decide to use Team’s system (not sign a non-compete) until they get a large enough business to make it necessary. At that time the Team office probably delivers the form to the IBO (Turbo 12 or better I assume) and asks them to sign it so they can participate in the money. The IBO can then sign it OR not sign it and continue to use the system. Signing it, they make money from system, not signing it they don’t make money.
With Quixtar, a new IBO has no choice about the non-compete. In fact the IBO doesn’t actually see the non-compete clause in the application unless they read the entire 90+ pages in the Rules of Conduct. I doubt many new IBOs actually read all of it before signing up.
If an IBO only registers some family members (not really building it, in for just a few months), they are locked into Q’s non-compete/non-solicitation for 2 years before they can ask their own family members to join something they may have found to be better. In Team, they are locked in for 1 year ONLY after they have built a substantial business.
Everyone needs to think about how these clauses work and how they are forced upon the person that is being locked in by them….two totally different methods and time frames.
September 28th, 2007 at 2:01 am
TEX
I am not a member of TEAM, but now I wish I were. You have done more to turn me away from Quixtar with your Vinegar remarks than any blogger on this post. I have never seen a better example of “speaking in false tongues” than the ones you provide.
You made the remark that you will go out and build your business after the tools system is fixed. Well, what are you waiting for? Haven’t you heard of Quixtar University? What is your exuse now? Could it be…. high prices? Hmmmmmmm? Or do you just like to sit around playing the victum all day rather than actually do something like make a difference?
People like you rub people the wrong way and cannot seem to say anything nice. You are too busy being a professional critic to build anything but a bad image for yourself and anyone you associate with, including Q/A.
If there are more people like you in Q/A, count me gone.
TEAM.. where can I sign up?
September 28th, 2007 at 4:31 am
Hrmmmm, tools are a scam!
Lessee, I joined the biz in 1984 and got involved with the system. 20 years ago tapes were $5. CD’s now are $6. Gas was less than a buck and now it is close to three. With inflation, shouldn’t they be about $12?
A CD or book is worth about a dime worth of material. It is what is on it that makes it valuable.
Over the years I have paid out several thousand dollars on “tools”. Funny thing about applying what you learn. I built a successful contracting company and sold it for 7 figures. Nice return on investment if you ask me.
Scam me some more please!
September 28th, 2007 at 8:51 am
TEX: are your intitials J.E.V.?
September 28th, 2007 at 9:10 am
toomuchtex - think too much TexMex and you might get the answer ….
September 28th, 2007 at 10:10 am
Tex,
One more time for you…since you evidently don’t, won’t or CAN’T understand…
Team members DO know that there is profit in tools. IT IS NOT HIDDEN FROM US…never has been…repeat after me …NEVER HAS BEEN !!
We are not dupes OR idiots. Anyone in my downline who is involved in the business & on the system has been told…we have all talked about the work that has to be done to qualify for profits from it. Those who are not on system may or may not know..I don’t know about them. But if they are NOT paying for tools, what difference does it make if they know about it. They still get any mentoring from me that they ask for. I still call & checkm on them, ask what I can do, encourage them …EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT ON SYSTEM
That neither makes it wrong, nor makes us dumb.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:14 am
ibofightback: ok, now THAT’s funny!
September 28th, 2007 at 10:16 am
TEX,
What will you do when this is all over? You have a hang up on “tools” and calling it all a scam. I get “tools” from Barnes and Noble, Borders and local book sellers, are you saying they are all SCAMS too. I get books and cd’s from them and many are “tools” that will teach me to be a better person. You need to find a new fight. Looking through the blogs most people are over your “tool scam” issues.
Team has left (as I have) or are in the process of leaving. So why are you STILL concerned with what TEAM is doing, I think your time should be spent worring about your Amway business and how you can be successful in it. I wish you the best of luck.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:22 am
Oh, one more thing, TEX
I also loan a ton of tools to anyone who asks..anytime. I have also given away more than I can count… whatever will help the newest guy who probably doesn’t have any extra money lying around.
I know it trips your trigger to think that there are a lot of people…hundreds and thousands of people on Team ( and I’m sure other groups as well ) who are as generous as we truly are. because if that’s true, it blows your theory that we are all
crooks…hoodwinking the poor, innocent newbie who is kept is the dark about all this.
Sorry…but that theory is just not true. Has it ever happened? I’m sure. But it is NOT the norm…at least not with us.
Finally, I am not even in profit sharing yet…but I STILL have my eyes wide open…why don’t you open yours and get a clue that we don’t need protection from an old,washed up guy who gets a thrill out of being up close & personal with the lawyers of a corporation that is worth billions of dollars and is more than willing to have ripped people off for decades with their overpriced products. Who really is the culprit here ? Matter of opinion. You have yours. It’s yours. Don’t try to make it mine.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:26 am
http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Quixtar_s_Opposition_to_Plaintiffs_Motion_for_Preliminary_Injunction.pdf
its like page 50 of 56. I think its paragraph 15.
- the reason you have not seen this is b/c TEAM ibos have sworn to confidentiality (part of the non-compete). But if you went platinum on TEAM and qualified to earn money from tools/speaking, then you will have to sign Contract before you get paid. It is 12 months, not 6 months like Quixtar agreement.
- ok hopefully y’all can find the non-compete info now - it is in here!
Now bye!
September 28th, 2007 at 11:20 am
To everyone other than Tex:
We should probably not respond to or try to explain the business to him any longer. Is it any wonder that his upline refused to work with him?
I am not being facetious, but it has become apparent he is not a stable person. You should read all the other threads. He has totally monopolized them. His mean spirited name calling is really out of hand. He blames everyone and everything for his miserable life. His complete and total obsession with the tools is beyond all explanation of any normal person.
It has become apparent that he is such a failure in real life that he will say or do anything behind the disguise of a computer to get attention and boy, are we giving him what he wants!
To Tex:
Just go, Tex.
September 28th, 2007 at 11:49 am
http://teamquixtarlawsuit.blogspot.com/2007/09/teams-non-compete.html
Freetheibo has disabled their court docs for at least the time being - so here is the non-compete!
Your Welcome!
September 28th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
jd #98/9,
You are wrong. The IBOAI Board doesn’t approve ANYTHING, they remove and recommend, they have NEVER had approval authority. If Quixar’s prices were found to be an illegal pyramid, all they would need is proof they recommended Quixtar lower the prices. This is a smoke screen to cover up the rules violations they were committing. Nothing more. If Quixtar was illegal, don’t you think many more from the Board would have quit? You don’t know if being put on a month to month basis had anything to do with their recommendation not to change the name back to Amway, this is pure speculation. Perhaps they have been on a month to month in previous years because the negotiations were delayed for other reasons.
You are mistaken about cross-lining. You probably have been lied to by your upline that buying tools from more than one source constitutes cross-lining.
Jerad #100,
Prove that Quixtar lied about you.
jd #101,
The books may not cost more than $1, but they are the SAME books you read.
50 cents for each reusable full color multipage QBOB? Profit? Are you serious?
Where have I cross-lined? Name the rule, not your upline’s distortion of the rule, which is misused to minimize the tool scam discussion.
Steve #103,
There are other important differences. Quixtar’s non-compete is in published rules, the TEAM non-compete was (until now) secret. The facts of how much money you make with Quixtar are shown in the marketing plan, TEAM’s tool money was (until now) kept secret. When contract terms are kept secret from those you call your “partners” and “teammates”, there is a huge problem.
Regarding your family, there is nothing prohibiting them approaching YOU about your new business, and a normal family relationship would probably get around to these types of discussions without you starting the conversation, so your point is virtually pointless.
September 28th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
DeathbyTex #104,
I wish you were a member of TEAM as well. If you don’t like the facts, go put your head in the sand. Where have I once been “speaking in false tongues”?
The overall tool scam must be fixed. Otherwise, I could go and spend my time, effort, and money to put together a business, which then gets shut down (overall, not just mine) because they didn’t clean up the mess. It has nothing to do with high prices, although lower prices would be welcome. No, I like to sit around correcting others spelling, such as the word “victum”, which is correctly spelled “victim”. I am doing something that is making a difference, like getting rid of people like you who can’t handle the facts.
I hope I am rubbing the tool scammers and anyone who supports them the wrong way, they deserve it.
Sounds like you’re a perfect fit for TEAM. You can go to the freetheibo sites to contact someone to sign up in their new “vulture venture”.
September 28th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
timeandmoney #105,
Tapes/CD’s are only one source of the tool profit.
Most people don’t own businesses they can later sell, so you are a rare exception, as MANY more people have been ripped off and not recovered their “investment”.
NG #106,
Do you think I would tell you if they were? Do you mean Jody Victor, or someone else with those initials? I don’t do very well with playing these types of games, just put the names out there.
ibofb #107,
That could be either end….and you can never have too much TexMex anyway. Maybe too many Mex’s in Texas, but not too much TexMex.
September 28th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
Hey its the best thing out there, no one can wreck it. yeah thats right they said that about the titanic. wow if you knew you on the boat that was about to sink what do you do..JUMP… and hope you can swim,,,, oh just a reminder the boat did SINK.. mmmmm
September 28th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
what is the differance between Amway and the titanic.,, one already sunk..
September 28th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
To Tex: You know, no one ever actually MADE you buy any system tools, so what’s with all your obsessive droning about it? There’s a cure for that, you know…. DON’T BUY ANY! It’s always been your personal choice anyway.
So your continuing diatribe has no basis in logic (to quote yourself…)
I’m not aware that anyone voted you to be our champion to protect us from the evils of system tools anyway. We’ve all heard you loud and clear. Enough already. Get on another topic.
Have a nice day
September 28th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
More for Tex:
Please help us help you. What points would you like us to concede so that you’ll stop going on ad nauseum about the same things?
Do you want us to agree that tools don’t work? Ok, they don’t work—for you.
Do you want us to agree that someone is making money off the MANY tool systems out there? Ok, we all agree to that. After all, the point of being in business is to make a profit.
Do you want us to agree that you haven’t been able to build a business because of your problem with tools? I think we can all agree with you 100% on that one….
What else would you like us to agree with you on? Please let us know so we can help you put your demons to rest.
Thank you so much for your cooperation.
September 28th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
dwilliams,are you thee Dan Williams?
September 28th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
Tex,
When bloggers start to call themselves “Toomuchtex” and “DeathbyTex” don’t you start to be a little concerned about your reputation on the web? Or do you enjoy the attention? Even if the “tool issue” was resolved to your satisfaction I can imagine you becoming obsessive about some other fringe detail and constantly going to battle over it. When you’re turning off people on both sides of the TEAM v. Quixtar dispute, I don’t see anything productive emerging from your blogging career. (I also don’t see the point of turning off only those on one side of the dispute, but since you’re nearly universally regarded with disfavor, I recommend retiring.)
September 29th, 2007 at 1:36 am
tex has become a true phenomena, it seems in his attempts to badmouth Team he has actually created more read-able support for Team. I’m not sure who tex is, but he goes at this posting stuff like he’s getting paid to do it.
And let me point out that many diamonds have had major issue’s with Amway/Alticor/Quixtar, many have left. The constant in this situation is Alticor. Each situation that arises is simply a natural consequence of the way they relate to the field. They want a better image, yet every so many years they seem to piss off a group of their best promoters. That is not the way to a better image. You know what Alticor just did? They just created their next batch of critics. They have given so much credit to the arguments of the older critics and created new ones.