Categories
- Alticor (88)
- Access Business Group (6)
- Amway (63)
- Quixtar (41)
- Amway Arena (3)
- eCoupled (3)
- Founders (1)
- Fulton Innovation (3)
- Grand Rapids (8)
- Hotels (5)
- Innovation (4)
- JW Marriott Grand Rapids (5)
- Michigan (10)
- Michigan Governor's Race (23)
- Miscellaneous (12)
- Product Lines (7)
- Sponsorships (2)
- Sports (1)
- Transformation (26)
Archives
Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
September 25th, 2007 @ 11:00 pm ET…
Cheapest Clomid Online
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
Cheapest clomid online, We received word today that former Quixtar IBOs Don Wilson and Randy Haugen have asked the court to dismiss their claims against Quixtar in "the California case," Woodward v. Quixtar. This does not end the case -- but it does end Wilson’s and Haugen's participation in it, ordering clomid no rx. Order clomid overnight delivery, Neither they nor their lawyers have yet offered any official explanation for why they backed away.
Earlier, order clomid online, Colorado CO Colo., we noted that court filings declared that Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady had resigned from TEAM... though a different court document contended Brady wasn't employed by TEAM in the first place, Missouri MO Mo.. Alaska AK, We're certainly not the ones to explain to you what is happening with the lineup card of the other side in this case, or why, West Virginia WV W.Va.. Minnesota MN Minn., On this side, we can tell you that we are as focused as we have ever been on helping IBOs continue to build strong Quixtar businesses, cheap clomid, Ordering clomid online cheap, launching terrific new products, and selling them to customers across North America, ordering clomid without prescription. Clomid no prescription. Ordering clomid overnight delivery. Lowest price clomid. Ordering clomid online legally. Cheapest clomid. Cheap generic clomid. Cheap clomid online cheap. New Mexico NM N.Mex.. Order clomid. Kansas KS Kans.. Washington WA Wash.. Buy clomid. Cheap clomid from canada. North Carolina NC N.C..
Similar posts: Cheap clomid online. Ordering clomid from canada. Ordering clomid. Clomid. Order clomid online without prescription. Buy clomid.
Trackbacks from: Cheapest clomid online. Cheapest clomid online. Cheapest clomid online. Cheapest clomid online. Cheapest clomid online. Cheapest clomid online.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
September 26th, 2007 at 12:25 am
I will be interested to know more.
Will all of Wilson’s and Haugen’s group of leaders that were forced by the Corporation to choose between the system and the corporation be reinstated as IBOs?
Are we getting the year 1999 choice after all?
September 26th, 2007 at 1:12 am
This case is taking so many weird turns, it can’t be good for Woodward and Brady to have people keep dropping out of the lawsuit they’ve filed.
September 26th, 2007 at 5:25 am
Wow! Who will be next? My guess is - Billy Florence.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:17 am
we really dont care anymore what alticor thinks.. the amount of people that have left is mind boggling… and their not all with the team.. so does it matter anymore the damage is done.. move on there is a life outside of Q/A.. believe me this crud that they are spinning is a joke… this whole thing is a waste of time.
September 26th, 2007 at 8:02 am
Interesting! Just when nothing really was happening then this bombshell. I decided not to follow my leaders to TEAM and sure do not want them reinstated. They made their bed when they resigned to follow like blind sheep, time for them to lay in it.
September 26th, 2007 at 8:21 am
I find that it is usually better to wait for the full story than to speculate or assume. Of course, I realize that in this wonderful world of blogging, many simply can’t help themselves.
September 26th, 2007 at 8:27 am
Moderator,
Wrong headline. This isn’t a “lineup change”. Nobody replaced Don and Randy in the lawsuit, did they? Let’s nominate some alternatives. How about Laurel and Hardy? On second second thought, TEAM is all about growth, so how about the 3 Stooges?
It is a mass defection. The headline should be “Cuban/Soviet Quixtar team defects”. Too bad we don’t want them back, either. Happy retirement, Don and Randy. It was “nice” getting ripped off by you via inflated tool prices. Enjoy your retirement tool-funded homes, cars, planes, boats, travel, etc.
Don and Randy have seen enough prior lawsuits to know they don’t stand a chance to win this one. They were the only thing that provided hot-shot Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward some credibility. As far as I know, Florence never had a single Diamond, Don and Randy had at least a couple dozen. Looks like the TEAM will soon consist of Orrin and Chris, unless Chris wakes up as well….JUST GO, TEAM.
September 26th, 2007 at 9:00 am
I won’t be shocked if Billy & Chuck fall out next. This isn’t because they are scared, I’m betting that they are streamlining the case to be mainly the Team LOS which doesn’t include Randy, Don, Billy, or Chuck.
No matter what happens people are resigning like crazy and a lot of people that haven’t resigned (myself included) are not sharing the Q business to anyone. I can’t share this business with anyone in good faith that it won’t hurt them in the long run. My integrity is worth more than this business. I use to love this business now it just sickens me. I have no plans to renew in Dec.
September 26th, 2007 at 9:20 am
steve I think you are right, It makes since that the fight is with the Team so the non-team members really don’t have a voice in the court.
September 26th, 2007 at 9:21 am
Tex,
I give you high marks for creativity in your post. You fail on content since there simply are no facts yet to support your opinion. Thanks for the laughs though.
September 26th, 2007 at 9:42 am
HEY COWBOY WANNABE~
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH you sound like Charlie Brown’s teacher……….a lot of NOISE but makes no sense! Wake up tex… put the green monster(envy) away…..get off your butt and go build your wonderful amway business and quit dumping your sewage on every blog out there. I’m sure amway/quixtar/alticor is very proud of you being in the business so long and not getting anywhere making it your personal mission to uncover the tools profit. They have people to deal with that so why would you concern yourself.. if you have so much belief in amway??? Or do you like to argue no matter what the subject or who it is?
September 26th, 2007 at 9:47 am
TEAM’S NON-COMPETE - THE REASON FOR PARTICIPATION?
Team has a 1yr non-compete which i think means people cannot be part of another bsm for a year?
Is this why Florence, Wilson, etc… are part of the lawsuit, that they have no other choice?
September 26th, 2007 at 9:50 am
If Don Wilson is smart - he will stay quiet.
Orrin and his lawyers are not shy to file lawsuits against TEAM dissenters.
September 26th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Never doubt that we are one Team with one Dream:) Everything serves a purpose to the end cause.
September 26th, 2007 at 10:37 am
What does TEAM call them…? is it the “Mighty Eight”? or is it Eleven?
Well now Haugen, Harteis, & Wilson are out. We probably won’t hear much from them b/c of threat of lawsuit during this heating time.
TEAM - are these 3 guys still “mighty”?
p.s. is anyone going to talk about how TEAM has their own non-compete? (i think for platinums and above)
September 26th, 2007 at 10:37 am
I have always been reminded from a number of Diamonds that EVERYTHING is done with specific intent. So in going with that principle, I am quite sure Don and Randy have a specific intent as to why they are doing what they are doing at this time. It might be good to go back and read: http://freetheiboblog.typepad.com/quixtar/2007/09/randy-haugen-sp.html to hear directly from Randy.
It only takes a mouth to have an opinion and it only takes a keypad here to have an opinion. It is much better to get all of the facts and think through things before jumping to conclusions. I agree with whatever #6.
September 26th, 2007 at 10:39 am
you guys crack me up…you will post anything that give anybody an inkling of doubt in what’s happening in California. Now, currently, as far as I know, this is the only post on this right now…so this is my take…
who cares!
seriously, win or loose this case, there are tons of people who won’t build a scamway business.(period) besides, this lawsuit is about a time frame, nothing more…a/q/a-you guys already lost, this suit is merely for our(the people) benefit so that we can pursue other morally right and honorable endeavors sooner rather than later.
so folks, lets not lose sight of the real issue…no one likes amway and the products are high priced as well as shipping going up.
Here is what i can deduct from those who stay…either you are naive and don’t see what’s happening, or you can take advantage of people by selling high priced products and have no conscience.
alticor media blog representative: you don’t need to keep kicking a dead horse…just lay out the facts and forget the spin…it’s not helping.
September 26th, 2007 at 10:41 am
dwillaims,
I think it would be good to look up the non-compete rule, I believe it means not being in a competing business (virtually any MLM and possibly even some non MLM business’) for 6 months from the last date you had a active IBO number. But don’t believe me, look it up or call the coperation.
And what do you mean by “Orrin and his lawyers are not shy to file lawsuits against TEAM dissenters”. Have they done this? It would be news to me, but that’s fine, I’d rather be wrong about something or somebody than ignorant.
It’s intereting how much chatter this whole situation with Team has caused, a lot of people have a lot of things to say. To bad we all seat in the bleachers on this one and none of what any of us say or think or blog has influence over what we’re saying, thinking and blogging about.
September 26th, 2007 at 10:43 am
dwilliams,
I just read your post again, sorry for misunderstanding you the first time. Are you talking about a non-compete clause with Team or Quixtar? To my knowledge there no non-compete clause with Team whatsoever so I assumed you were talking about Quixtar. Where are you getting info about Team?
September 26th, 2007 at 11:01 am
aem - yes i was talking about TEAMs non-compete. Its all over the net, including in court docs submitted by TEAM, that they have a non-compete also - Quix thinks its more strict than their non-compete.
p.s.
Haugen and Wilson - they were the ONLY TEAM-Affiliated members that were on the IBOAI Executive Committee.
So the two biggest IBOAI members are no longer part of TEAM lawsuit.
matthew - “who cares” - YOU DO b/c you are blogging about it.
I read Randys letter when it was released at freetheibo and just read it again. The dude can write the book “How to win friends and influence people” - no doubt. He is a Leader.
Now fact is Randy signed and willingly agreed on a Non-Compete contract for the last 3 years. There is no “negotiation” about it. Randy, take your great ethics, and leave the business, wait 6 months if you want to build another mlm.
go TEAM go
stay Quix IBOS stay
September 26th, 2007 at 11:10 am
SEPTEMBER ROSTER CHANGE
We received word today that Quixtar has asked the court to dismiss their claims against TEAM in “the California case,” Woodward v. Quixtar.
seems easy to spin anything you want with a typepad
September 26th, 2007 at 11:13 am
Moderator, great post, great tone, you’re doing a fabulous job!!!
Very interesting reading most of the posts so far, folks trying so hard to convince themselves that there was no iceberg, and the ship will arrive in New York from Southampton on time…
Quixtar/Alticor/Amway, whatever you want to call it is on a roll, and I’ve never been more excited. Just one small example — Interleukin study now published in a peer reviewed journal:
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/NYTU12225092007-1.htm
Wilson and Haugen know from experience what it’s like to be in court for over a decade and still lose (and I believe are still paying lawyers to appeal the last judgement against them), and possibly realize that life is to short to spend it destroying themselves following a foolish Don Quixote’s dream, now a nightmare.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:19 am
Or maybe that should be Orrin Quixote.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:33 am
dwilliams Says:
What does TEAM call them…? is it the “Mighty Eight”? or is it Eleven?
I like your question, but your vision is to small. We will be called
“The Mighty Millon”
September 26th, 2007 at 11:37 am
i’m sorry guys, i don’t normally post this much but i thought rdknyvr’s posted article was funny. in today’s media, i definately don’t take things at face value and i think it is hilarious that interleukin’s majority stock holder is amway…i mean, don’t you think that they would publish something positive about it…doesn’t that seem kinda…i don’t know. whatever…i just think it’s funny…typical.
in@win, do you have a source for your statement? just curious.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
Mathew, #17
I agree with you man, you and other obvious TEAM members in this little blog site have shown the reason we are in TEAM. LONG TERM VISION.
All the Q can do is focus on telling how great it will be and how feeble our attempts are.
It reminds of “The Incredibles” when they are talking about the evil guy always spoiling his efforts to kill the good guy by Monologing.
Oh, we have your number Q and your going to see a swift kick to face very soon.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
This is getting exciting.
I’m sure that Randy and Don’s exit from the suit marks a positive benchmark for TEAM. From past postings, I think the Quixtar would have spun this far more negatively than they did if they felt otherwise. They really don’t know what to make of this move! You can just tell from the tone.
Great things are on the way you guys. Don and Randy are indeed mighty!
Stay the course….Onward to “The Mighty Million”
September 26th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
“…..We’re certainly not the ones to explain to you what is happening with the lineup card of the other side in this case, or why…..”
Could it be that the “Company” has offered them some deal to rejoin the fold….all sins forgiven…? Maybe you should check with your legal department for the answer…I have a feeling that they will know…
September 26th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
I just re-read the first 4 chapters of “Good to Great”. It makes a whole lot more sense today than the first time I read it. It explains exactly what is happening today with Quixtar/Amway and the TEAM. What we have with the TEAM are some wonderful Level 5 leaders with a huge vision. By getting the right people on the bus and getting the wrong people off (the level 4 leadership of Q), they can figure out the details on how to get to that million quickly. We are so excited to part of this growing Learning organization. By the way, I and many others consider Randy to be a Level 5 leader also.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
IBO’s that have left quitstar remember this:
There is more to the story then we know! Orrin and Chris are MASTERMINDS, they have ALWAYS done things better by ten fold!
it’s better then you think!
September 26th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
I doubt that Randy and Don are backing down now, I bet when this all unfolds will find out there was a good reason why. Like #27 said if this was positive for Quixtar they would have spun a more negative outlook for the TEAM.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
jthompson: Please stick with ‘jthompson’ or your more recent nickname. Leaving comments using the name of a well-known celebrity in a manner meant to incite? Can’t let you do that.
We’ll gladly approve your comments in moderation once you oblige. Thank you for your cooperation.
UPDATE: You both share the same IP address, and the tone and style of your writing is very similar. Fair enough, we’ll give you the benefit of the doubt but we still need you to pick another name for your comments to be approved.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
Matthew, Chris, that’s exactly my point… the Interleukin Genetics article in CNN Money openly acknowledges Alticor is the majority shareholder — nothing hidden there — and if you trace it back, it is just the IL Genetics press release. From your reply it’s clear that you don’t get what it means, and that’s OK… lots of us do see what this portends, and are running with it. From your reply it’s clear that you don’t see where it’s going, and that’s OK too… a strong indicator that you would probably do better in some other business opportunity.
You run with your “opportunity”, and I hope you achieve your dreams with whatever you think you’ve got. What is also insightful, though, is how you feel compelled to introduce a violent tone into your commentary — “swift kicks to the face”? Is that what your mastermind Orrin teaches?
September 26th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
Sparta, Doublehook, et al. So what is YOUR explanation for Don and Randy throwing in the towell (otherwise known as coming to their senses)? Got one that actually works? Maybe it’s part of some big super legal head fake to deke Alticor out? Or head fake the judge? And if more start backing out (leaving you out on a limb), will that be another super duper head fake? The beautiful thing about the Alticor Blogger is that he/she doesn’t HAVE to say more or make more of it than they have… just let it unfold however it will… the events are speaking for themselves more eloquently than any words!!!
September 26th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
rdknyvr, et al: For the record, we first mentioned Interleukin over a year ago.
Yes, we’ve been blogging for quite some time
And now, back to our regular programming…er, topic.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
rdknyvr: how old are you…
I don’t appreciate your tone or your arrogant remarks directed toward me. I didn’t say anything slanderous towards you or your post; rather just a comment on your article. For your information, I do understand what the article means, and what it can possibly do for those that stick around, and I think it’s great.
Perhaps, when you get a little older you might be able to more adequately infer what an author is saying in written word. As for the “violent tone”, you must be mistaken for some good old classic humor. But whatever…you wouldn’t understand because you are in the mode of defense.
You have been ever since you knew Q was going back to Amway. And I understand that; I would be on the defensive all the time if I was standing by Amway too.
Here is what we can gather from these friendly words one to another…You and I are people. Confused? Maybe. Right? Maybe. Either way, there is room in this world for more individuals that can speak uplifting words to one another. More room for individuals that can add to our society in a positive way. We don’t need any more cutting remarks and put-downs, especially from the people that hold the same basic ideals and values that we teach in this business(yours or mine).
This is the point to all of this…this blog i’m sure is a place to debate the events that are taking place. This is not a place to attack each other and tear each other down. Please refrain from the insults, and understand that one of the many freedoms that we enjoy is the freedom to have our own opinion.
With that said, good luck RDKNYVR in your endeavors and hopefully everything will calm down soon and we can all return to building our ventures.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Whoa…hold on folks! The poster that said “…with the TEAM… everything is done with specific intent” is absolutely right. I would think that if Randy and Don have been (or are currently) involved in other lawsuits, then removing them from the class action case would simply limit their personal exposure. Removing them doesn’t have any impact on the case, yet it protects Randy and Don. I think this is just another great example of how the TEAM protects it leaders. We all know where Randy and Don stand on the issues. If you forgot read this: http://freetheiboblog.typepad.com/quixtar/2007/09/randy-haugen-sp.html
Quixtar is really reaching here to find a glimmer of hope…
September 26th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Hey Tex,
Argueing argueing early and late if a line was crooked you would argue it strait. keep trying
September 26th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
rdknyvr,
1. The kicks to the face is a metaphor you doof.
2. I dont need you to tell to keep following my dream.
3. If you and your Alticorupt cronies careda about dreams they would have lowered their average 190% markup on product.
4. You have the tone of living in france as an american hater.
September 26th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
LESS THAN 4 1/2 MONTHS! FIRED UP!
September 26th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
I used to feel anger towards the business when I was trying to do it the way my upline taught me. Almost every single word out of his mouth regarding how to build this business was and is wrong–and this guy’s a Diamond! (Or at least he hit it ONCE.) I have stopped focusing on sponsoring and have committed myself to building a large retail business and helping those in my group who want to, to also build a large retail business. I’m beginning to see results and it’s only been a couple of months. I’m again starting to have fun with it. We all signed up in this business to be DISTRIBUTORS of the company’s products. The money comes after that. THEN you can achieve your personal goals.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
So who is this guy “Johnny Moses”
who’s on all the blogs as if he knows us?
His every snide post
is in support of this host;
is he merely some Amway brown-noser?
September 26th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Doesn’t anyone remember how Alticor puts their spin on everything? Remember their previous blog entry that stated that TEAM was utterly defeated because Q won 3 temporary retraining orders against TEAM, but leaving out the part that TEAM had won 11 temporary restraining orders against Q? Let’s just wait until all of the facts are heard, not just Alticors spin on it.
Also, did anyone check out the link on the word “products” at the end of their blog? It takes you to a section of the Q site where anyone can purchase the products and without having to enter an IBO or Customer number. So it looks like that means that Q is now selling products directly, keeping ALL of the profits (not IBO is getting the PV/BV) and competing directly with other IBO’s. (Isn’t there a non-compete clause somewhere?) Just another reason why I am glad I resigned my business.
September 26th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
dwilliams,
I’m very interested in this non-compete clause team has. Which court document did you see it in?
September 26th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
or can anyone else tell me where I can find reliable information on teams (claimed) non-compete.
September 26th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
There is no doubt this is a strategic move by the Team attorneys! Randy and Don are too deep into this mess to leave. This should worry Q! What could these attorneys be thinking? The Team attorneys keep winning the head to head battles with brilliant strategy! Run hard Randy we will see you on the other side of this battle!
September 26th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
Steve #8/Chris #9,
Nice spin, you guys running for political office or something?
whatever #10,
What do you mean by “no facts”?
driven #11,
I will build my business when the tool scam has been fixed.
dwilliams #13,
I think Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward has his hands full as it is, he doesn’t need to start another lawsuit. Don Wilson probably has so much dirt on Orrin after being associated/aligned with him for the past several months/years it would make a sailor blush.
IN@win #14,
Yes, and the purpose of the Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward lawsuit is to put the paper it is written on into the compost pile for fertilizer.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
A response for Randy and Don posted on the Free the IBO Forum:
Good evening ladies and gentlemen. No doubt that you have seen the Alticor Media Blog post that Don Wilson and Randy Haugen have removed themselves from the California case. Below is a joint statement that I have been authorized to release on their behalf as they both remain good friends of mine.
Effective September 25 both Don Wilson and Randy Haugen chose to voluntarily dismiss themselves from the Woodward et al vs. Quixtar et al lawsuit filed in Federal District Court in Los Angeles, California.
The removals were without prejudice and for technical reasons related to another matter not affiliated with Team.
Both Randy and Don are very disappointed that the dispute between themselves, along with others, and Quixtar, which includes people on staff at Quixtar with whom they worked and respected for so many years has deteriorated to the level that exists today. The continuing action does not have the characteristics of a win/win scenario, which is our goal.
On August 9th several key IBO leaders, including Randy, attended a face to face meeting with representatives of Amway/Quixtar, with whom they have known and worked with for years. The purpose of this meeting was to discuss why these business leaders could not move forward with the Amway business transformation and to discuss how all parties would conduct themselves in light of these events.
This remains their goal today. Define the contractual obligations owed to Quixtar in a reasonable manner, meet those obligations and see what life brings them in the future. That is it –no more complicated than that.
Our plea to Amway/Quixtar is to discuss an amicable resolution of this dispute.
Ron Simmons on behalf of and with approval from Don Wilson and Randy Haugen.
September 26, 2007
September 26th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
matthew #36,
How’s this for an “uplifting” comment? I’d happily “uplift” my size 13 shoe into Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward’s backside. “Uplifting” enough for you?
qreilly #37,
You probably don’t know Don and Randy both have experience with turning on their fellow IBO’s. Google Amway/Quixtar and Joe Morrison and Bruce Anderson to find out what kind of “buddies” they have proven themselves to be.
Warriors in the field #38,
Nice poem, too bad it doesn’t mean anything.
makingadifference #40,
Don’t get too fired up, Quixtar may be able to extend the standard 6 month/2 year criteria, based on the actions of Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward & Co.
toomuchtex #42,
I liked the #38 poem better, yours is a little strained sounding. For the record, I have been critical of A/Q as well, especially when it comes to not taking action against the tool scam for over a quarter of a century after knowing about it.
hartazo #43,
Why do you keep spewing your 11-3 garbage? The only TRO’s TEAM has won have been without Quixtar being present, because TEAM has been running all over the country, and even lost on 3 occasions when Quixtar wasn’t there. That’s like losing a tennis match without an opponent across the net from you. The 3 Orders Quixtar won were with TEAM also present, making these decisions MUCH more legally meaningful.
Same deal with your garbage about Quixtar selling directly to the public. They have never done this, and there are NO signs they intend to do so. Your little girl “the sky is falling” hysterics isn’t making me look up. You need to get a clue.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Also, I did notice that the Haugens remain on the Team speaking schedule so they are certainly not in the Team doghouse for this action.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
rdknyvr, [#22]
I’m impressed you found that article about Interleukin. It is no small achievement to be published in “Nature” and you have to have all your research “ducks” in order to get the job done. This includes subject matter, testing methods, and many other things. The “botanical supplement” they talk about is non other than our “Nutrilite IL1 Heart Health Nutrigenomic Supplement.”
This is a product that can save people’s lives, if they know what it’s about. For instance, it does a person no good unless they have a variant IL1 gene. And how does one find that out? Take the “Gensona Heart Health Genetic Test.”
Now all of those are expensive products. The Gensona test is $199.00, and the IL1 supplement is $69.95 a bottle. But these are not fake-out products — they are the real McCoy. By comparison, a “DNA Tribes” test to look for your ancestry is $199.00, other genealogy DNA tests run up to $839.00.
As for the supplement, it’s hard to make a comparison, because nobody has makes a supplement like this one. Other companies may say their supplement contains, say, acerola cherries. But when you see how much acerola is in their product, it comes out to putting a couple of drops of milk in water and saying, “contains milk.” There’s not enough in there to do any good.
In order to sell these products, you have to know the product and know how to explain it. How many here have taken the time to learn the differences between ours’ and others’ products? It’s the only way to sell upscale, exclusive products like this.
The money Alticor invests in this stuff is so we can have cutting edge science to sell; exclusive products that no one else has. But that exclusivity only lasts for so long, and then the competition starts catching up.
Alticor invests the money so we can sell the product and make money. That’s how much faith they have in us. Do you have faith in Alticor? Are you good enough to sell these products.
“We’re looking for a few good (wo)men.” If you can’t measure up, perhaps there needs to be a roster change in field sales force. Something to think about.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:35 am
Well, after reading the comments ok’s by Randy and Don, I agree.
September 27th, 2007 at 2:10 am
1) I have yet to find a non-compete clause in TEAM. And if there is one, so? Unless and until that clause makes TEAM an illegal scheme it can’t be compared to Q’s no compete clause.
2) See the explaination for Don and Randy’s latest move on freetheibo.info.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:22 am
Sooner IBO #5
Have no fear; I don’t believe that Don and Randy want to build an Amway business in the “new” model of focusing on making an extra few hundred dollars per month for everyone. You shouldn’t have to worry about that anyway as Quixtar University will be your new mentor now. I wish you luck, your gonna need it
Tex JThompson (a.k.a. any name you feel like calling yourself), and others who somehow believe that you are better than others,
You guys are slap-stick at best… when you have thousands of people in your group, then you might have a leg to stand on. I know you like to put your two cents in, but aren’t your Amway Customers needing your attention to sell them more overpriced products, or did they start buying the products without using your ABO number already? A little suggestion, spend more effort getting your ABO number in your customers’ heads so you can earn your coupe of hundred dollars each month, and less time fruitlessly attempting to act as if you have any clue about how TEAM leaders think. It would take you years of reading the right books to even get a glimpse of how they think.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:27 am
Found the following from Ron Simmons, CEO of Legacy, on the freetheibo blog, my comments in brackets:
Re: Setting the Record Straight
by rons942 on Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:54 pm
Good evening ladies and gentlemen. No doubt that you have seen the Alticor Media Blog post that Don Wilson and Randy Haugen have removed themselves from the California case. Below is a joint statement that I have been authorized to release on their behalf as they both remain good friends of mine. [Can’t speak for themselves? I see, they’re not getting paid the big bucks to speak in this instance, as they are at the functions, so silence does make more sense.]
Effective September 25 both Don Wilson and Randy Haugen chose to voluntarily dismiss themselves from the Woodward et al vs. Quixtar et al lawsuit filed in Federal District Court in Los Angeles, California. [I suspect they are busy setting up the next Quixtar-like shell business for their tool scam to hide behind.]
The removals were without prejudice and for technical reasons related to another matter not affiliated with Team. [See above.]
Both Randy and Don are very disappointed that the dispute between themselves, along with others, and Quixtar, which includes people on staff at Quixtar with whom they worked and respected for so many years has deteriorated to the level that exists today. The continuing action does not have the characteristics of a win/win scenario, which is our goal. [I’m disappointed in them as human beings, taking advantage of others via the tool scam for decades. Your win-win with A/Q has been a huge LOSE for all but a very few IBO’s. Randy even stated many Diamonds and Emeralds had to go and get jobs, so the circle of “win” is small indeed.]
On August 9th several key IBO leaders, including Randy, attended a face to face meeting with representatives of Amway/Quixtar, with whom they have known and worked with for years. The purpose of this meeting was to discuss why these business leaders could not move forward with the Amway business transformation and to discuss how all parties would conduct themselves in light of these events. [Looks like these “manly men” couldn’t handle a simple change back to the Amway name, but I think the real reason is Quixtar told them the tool scam party is over, as has already happened in the UK.]
This remains their goal today. Define the contractual obligations owed to Quixtar in a reasonable manner, meet those obligations and see what life brings them in the future. That is it –no more complicated than that. [Good, at least they appear to be willing to follow the rules, for a change.]
Our plea to Amway/Quixtar is to discuss an amicable resolution of this dispute. [Quixtar tried to help you follow the rules, you didn’t want to talk.]
Ron Simmons on behalf of and with approval from Don Wilson and Randy Haugen.
September 26, 2007 [Thanks Ron, the entertainment value was priceless.]
September 27th, 2007 at 10:32 am
Tex, I would have had more respect for you if you hadn’t put your negative comments in there with Ron Simmons’ post.
September 27th, 2007 at 10:38 am
hey Tex I’m sorry that someone hurt you so bad that you have all this negitive energy. You may want to forgive and let God heal your pain before it begins to cause physical problem.
September 27th, 2007 at 10:48 am
aem #45,
Here’s the TEAM one year non-compete: http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Quixtar_s_Opposition_to_Plaintiffs_Motion_for_Preliminary_Injunction.pdf Go to page 47 of 56, Exhibit A, and you will find the non-compete, a requirement to keep the speaking fees secret, and the speaking fees themselves (so much for being secret, thanks for the information, TEAM).
Quixkicked #46,
There is no doubt this is a strategic move by the Team attorneys? Yeah, cut your losses, get out before you get completely stomped into the ground.
Randy and Don are too deep into this mess to leave? They’re GONE. Gone from Quixtar, gone from TEAM. Randy and Don “have left the building”, just like Elvis. Good riddance, Randy and Don.
This should worry Q? The other “kingpins” abandoning Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward should worry Q? I don’t think so.
What could these attorneys be thinking? If you are speaking about the Quixtar attorneys, they are thinking about winning the court case.
The Team attorneys keep winning the head to head battles with brilliant strategy? TEAM has only won head to head battles when Quixtar wasn’t present, and these are only TEMPORARY restraining orders. They even lost 3 of them when Quixtar wasn’t there, no easy “accomplishment”.
Run hard Randy we will see you on the other side of this battle? The only “other side of the battle” you should see Randy on is behind bars right next to businessmen of his ilk, like the executives from Enron, MCI, Adelphia, Tyco, etc.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:12 am
Finally everyone is waking up and realizing that the team “tools” were indeed a scam. Thats why I never got on “system”. Quixtar had a good idea and team had a semi-good scam.
Im happy team has fallen apart and the “leaders” who were so succesfu have had to get jobs.
However I do not enjoy the suffering of those who actually tried to build a honest business. But its good to see the top of the pyramid fall.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:50 am
Tex,
I also object for you posting your off the wall comments in the middle of Ron Simmons post. Just because you put brackets around them. You didn’t even put a space around the brackets, so someone reading them wouldn’t see it was you.
You comments about others involved, such as Randy and Don just show you are a jerk.
PS, tools are not a scam, just because you think so. That coming from someone who has spent thousands on them and not gotten a dime back. I have made tens of thousands in my other business based on what I have learned.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
tex, dwilliams
Thank you for providing the link (tex) and mentioning the non-compete (dwilliams).
September 27th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Big Apple #51, actually, I found the article through the good graces of the news features down the lhs of IBOFightBack’s opening page…
http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/
It’s worth skimming down the headlines there from time to time… so the credits go to him on that one, although I do check the Interleukin Genetics site from time to time.
http://www.ilgenetics.com/
And I think the journal is Nutrition, not Nature.
The connection to postin on this thread, however, was to point out one of many reasons to look beyond the dispute — even the stuff about Don and Randy — and consider how strong the Alticor companies are and the opportunity they offer, vs. some of our friends from Team (and yes, many of them are our friends in a larger sense regardless of what happens) who may not be aware how much bigger this is than a name change, and a nebulous new opportunity promised by their leadership.
Regarding a change in the field sales force around the DNA tests and nutrigenomic supplements and Personalized Health, I agree… but in this channel, that’s up to you and me and anyone else who sees the amazing magnitude of this opportunity and what Alticor is offering. Interleukin does have the option to put the tests, at least, into non-networking channels if we don’t do our job.
I’ve posted on this quite a bit recently at IBOFB’s site on the Nutrilite thread… background, resources, how to sell, etc. They do not require a lot of technical knowledge (it’s a self-defeating trap to think they do). This is my core focus from now on.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
#58, Tex
The speaking fees and the Team non-compete clause are part of a filing submitted from Quixtar’s attorneys. I am surprised they released the information.
I don’t know why Weichert Realtors Acclaim released the form to Quixtar. Anyone know anyone there?
I don’t know why Attachment A is even in the filing.
The Team non-compete clause doesn’t apply if you are selling BSM to non-IBO’s or to those not part of Team. It does not seem to allow Legacy to start back up and sell BSM to Quixtar IBO’s.
Right now Team is strictly a Leadership Development Service Provider (LDSP) and not a BSM provider. By doing that, I believe the Team non-compete rule is void. IMHO.
Go back asleep.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Hi all
I assume all the changes that have been made in the UK will be the same as the “transformation” talked about for the States…please correct me if I’m wrong.
Over here the business is now initially reliant on retailing (as it always should have been, but we all know that was virtually impossible because of the over pricing).Rebates can be earned on orders over £100, but you can only sponsor and receive bonuses when you have 5 registerd customers who spend (between them) £200+ per month. Now that we have dramatic price reductions for some of the cores lines, this new business structure will surely be better than before and will certainly keep us legal?
Since we have had huge price cuts I imagine that you will too in the States?
What I’d really like to know (assuming the changes will be the same for you eventually) is what part of this transformation Team et al have a problem with. The way I see it is that they have essentially got what they have been striving for with Quixtar in the product pricing cuts.
Is it the fact that Amway wants to take control of the BSM’s and effectively take away tools money from them?
Obviously I don’t know if the same changes will be made there as they have been here, but one can only assume they will.
Hope this makes sense.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Things have never looked brighter! I am so excited to see what the future holds……GO TEAM!
September 27th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
if u look at the non compete paper it was filed by quixtar. I have never signed any form that even come close to looking like the one they put into evidence nor have I had anyone sign anything like that and i have been in for 5 years.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Tex#58,
The non-compete clause doesn’t seem to be anywhere in that link. And why do you keep calling Orrin “Rosie”?
September 27th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
TEAM IBO,
Why did you never get on system? and if not how can you sit there in the safety of your Grandmas basement and tell us it is a scam.
I am on system and have been for 6 months and has completely change the way I run all of my businesses.
Dont sit there and make yourself look like an id-ten-tee(spell it) in front of people that know way more than you obviously do.
September 27th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Hey hey hey… check out where the extra money goes…the Devos AIR FORCE.
NICE
http://www.micaucus.com/michigan_caucus/2006/09/the_dick_devos_.html
September 27th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Have you all lost your minds? I can’t believe the things I’ve been reading on these blogs. Don’t you all realize that Team is not the first organization to have system tools? This has been going on since Amway started. Why is the focus on Orrin? He didn’t “invent” tools. Neither did Randy or Don Wilson or Billy Florence. Dont’ you realize this has been taught over decades? What were all you low-level IBOs working toward Diamond for anyway? At least Team finally had the vision to see that the tool profit could be shared better and at a lower level and tried to do something about it. But I guess you chronic complainers never believed you could be one of those sharing in the profits because that would mean you actually would have to work to earn it. There’s far more at work here than meets the eye. This is much, much deeper than the Team incident. It would be wise to check the history before you embarrass yourselves with your ridiculous comments.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
TEAM IBO: also, how is it a scam when the cd’s are only $6. each?? That’s not very much money to pay to get wisdom from someone who’s succeeded…. Plus they are motivating.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
TEAM IBO (sadly),
Please share the information you rely upon when you claim that “team has fallen apart and the “leaders” who were so succesfu have had to get jobs”. From my perspective, this statement couldn’t be farther from the truth.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
amazed #54,
I never claimed to be “better” than others. But that doesn’t mean I can’t call a spade a spade, either. The facts don’t depend on how many people are in my group. Do you realize how much bigger of a PV/BV business Don and Randy would have if their IBO’s had more retail? How much less turnover they would have if retail profit and lower overhead via lower cost tools? You are thinking small, as usual. I’m “amazed” as well. Amazed you don’t get it.
NG #56,
That’s not my style. Plus, I don’t care if you respect me, I am interested in getting the facts out, not “fame”.
jack #57,
You’re sorry that someone hurt me so bad that I have all this negitive energy? Nobody hurt me any worse than the millions of other IBO’s that were scammed.
I may want to forgive and let God heal pain before it begins to cause physical problems? That sounds like a “Christian” cop-out. Are we supposed to forgive and let mass murderers run loose in our society as well?
TEAM IBO (sadly) #59,
Glad to see you “get it” as well.
Utah #60,
Go ahead, object. I stated at the beginning the comments in the brackets are mine. What more do you want, flashing lights?
Perhaps I am a jerk, but if I am, I’m an honest jerk.
It isn’t just me who thinks the tools are a scam, the UK DTI thinks so, too.
Utah #63,
I’m not surprised they released the tool scam information, there has been a lot of good information released by the multitude of lawsuits over the years.
How much money is available (not to mention the small market) when selling to non-IBO’s or IBO’s not part of TEAM? You don’t get any profit until you reach higher pin levels. There’s no PV/BV along the way, as there is in Quixtar.
Right now Team is on the ropes, and it doesn’t look good, no matter what label they want to wear.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
IBO UK #64,
Time will tell what the “transformation” means in the U.S., but because of what we know in the UK, I can’t see how it can’t mean similar changes.
Retailing first used to be how Amway was structured in this country.
Lower prices should help retail sales and legality. This is a good move.
I think TEAM had the hardest part with the tool scam going away, and decided to blame it on the name change back to Amway.
I hope Amway wants to take control of the BSM profits and effectively take away tools money from the tool companies. Whether Amway or the tool companies produce the tools isn’t as important to me.
teamcolon5 #66,
It appears the form is for those making a profit from tools. Do you make a profit from tools?
Jerad #67,
It’s number 15 on page 50 of 57.
Note this is not a Quixtar rule, it is a TEAM rule. Looks to me like Ron Simmons and Chuck Goetschel lied, unless Quixtar asked for the rule. Which I doubt, based on messages on the IBOAI blog.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
IBO UK #64
Read the suit that TEAM filed at http://freetheibo.com/images/Complaint_with_exhibits.pdf and you will see that they tried for YEARS to get Q to do something about the prices. Q repeatedly promised to so something about it, but NEVER did. The only reason that Q lowered their prices in the UK was because the government there made them or they would be shut down. TEAM was afraid the same thing could happen here in the US. However, due to the laws here in the states, if the government here in the US realized what was realized in the UK, that the prices were too high, every single member of the IBOAI board could be legally liable. TEAM did not want this to happen and realized that the only way that Q would lower their prices was if they were forced to by the government, TEAM decided that the only thing they could do was file the suit.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
TEX, hi, it’s me again. You are not interested in getting the facts out there, otherwise you would just put the facts out there alone, without your opinions. Think about it…
September 27th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
#49 Tex
Did you even go to the site? Apparently not, because you would have seen that anyone can go to http://simplynutrilite.quixtar.com/ and buy products there. It is not required to enter an IBO or customer number. Just try it. There is a field for a referring IBO number but the site states that it is NOT REQUIRED. Therefore, anyone can purchase the products directly from Q. That means that Q is competing with EVERY IBO out there.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Tex,
Please state with specificity the facts which support your statement that TEAM is “on the ropes.” Was there some ruling out of the court today that we are unaware of?
September 27th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
A little off topic:
I see by the Team website that they’ve have stopped doing their ‘open mtgs’. Does anybody know what the sponsoring rates for Team IBO’s are now that they no longer have the ‘open mtgs’?
September 27th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Jerad #67,
Google “Rosie Ruiz” and tell me if you are still confused.
PP #69,
Imagine that, a multi-billion dollar corporation with jets. What a surprise. I would be more surprised if they DIDN’T have a few jets. Get a clue. At least they got the goodies without under the table, tool scam money.
Keep it in perspective #70,
TEAM is the latest example of the tool scam run amuck. These situations uncover important insights into the truth, with the court documents, statements made by the lying cowardly “kingpins”, etc.
NG #71,
How many CD’s per week do (did) you buy? How many dollars does that add up to in a year? It costs less than $1 to produce a CD in bulk, and we haven’t even touched books, other contacting and follow up tools, the Top 50, and the various functions. Now you know why the speakers are so “fired up” and “motivating”.
whatever #72,
This statement is more accurate when describing what Randy Haugen said about the Legacy group prior to being absorbed by TEAM. However, there will be many TEAM IBO’s who will now have to get jobs and postpone retiring, thanks to Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward. But hey, it’s not easy to get to a million, especially when you’re going backwards, right?
September 27th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
#58 Tex…Wow with that posting you have made my respect for my mentors greater and here is why… If my turbo 50 were to do both the open and the night owl this is how it would look. he would drive 150 miles one way (2 hours) 300 miles round trip (4 hours) assumming that he has a car that actually gets decent milage 25mpg that would be 18 gallons at $3.00 a gallon it would cost him $54, he would make $37.50 for the open and $37.50 for the night owl. $75 minus the expense of travel he would net $21 for that $21 he drove 4 hours, spent 2 hours speaking for a total of 6 hours. That my friend is $3.50 an hour
Now lets talk seminars….if you go to http://www.bigspeak.com/big-speak-speakers.html you will see many speakers for not wanting to worry about copy writes in mentioning their name but i have found speakers ranging from $10-40k and amazing they aren’t speaking on specific success. and The Team at best gets $9750 to teach me how to be succesfull…I am ok with that. Oh by the way for a job of mine I went to a sales train course the company paid $1250 for me to go it was a 4 hour training course. A 4 hour seminar with the team costed me $35 and while we are at it lets just talk about the cd’s I can by a book on cd at a store for about $12 and music cd at a store for about $15, the cost is not how much the actual cost of the cd is it is the value of the info on it. for $6 I get the info that I deem valuable. Please tell me how in the world the tool business could possbily be a scam, the only way for it to be concieved as a scam is if people thought you should do work and not get paid, lets get real, if our kids take out the trash for money shouldn’t our mentors get paid to help us.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
Tex you said
1. I hope Amway wants to take control of the BSM profits and effectively take away tools money from the tool companies. Whether Amway or the tool companies produce the tools isn’t as important to me.
My question to you is.
Have you ever built the Q/A business? (From what you say I think not and if so not big maybe 2 IBO’s)
So it is ok with you if the corporation makes the money on the tools even though they have never been able to build it. (And they have tried in the past)
The corporation knows how to make product and a BIG profit on us. Leave the teaching to the people that have built this business.
If I thought you or Q/A new anything about building communities I would listen and take your advice. (But you don’t) You must be a door to door sales man (good luck)
September 27th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Here is the TEAM non-compete
http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Quixtar_s_Opposition_to_Plaintiffs_Motion_for_Preliminary_Injunction.pdf
its like page 50 of 56.
If you are not a platinum on TEAM then you likely do not know that to get paid by TEAM tool system, you have to sign their non-compete. The length is not 6 months like Quixtar. The TEAM non-compete is 1 year.
Have a good weekend Y’all! I am going back to sell - its year-end right now for our billion dollar vendor who is our main source of income! bye!
September 27th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
am part of team,no more quixtar sep 26 was my last day with this selling thing,good luck i wish the best for you guys…
don,randy,lance those are my leaders for life…am follow the leadrs,not a company,GOD BLEES OUR FUTURE
September 27th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
Here are a couple of question for all you anti-Team people:
Do you think Orrin and Chris and Chuck and Randy and Don and everyone you are complaining about ever bought support materials from someone else before they got to where they are now?
Who do you suppose was speaking on all those tapes and CDs teaching them how to build such large businesses?
Do you think all of them felt “scammed” and “ripped off” while they were growing their businesses and becoming great leaders?
Have you figured out yet that all of these men started at the very bottom, just like the rest of us?
Strange though, isn’t it, how they were miraculously able to endure and persevere and be used and abused and misled by someone else’s scammy tool system, yet still emerge at the top?
come on, people. THINK
September 27th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
Tex#74,
That’s great Tex, except for the fact that as a TEAM member I’ve yet to see or sign one of these.
September 27th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Jerad #67,
Just google “Rosie Ruiz”, as I did. Tex thinks he’s being cute by not responding to your question …don’t give him the satisfaction of continuing to ask. Better yet, I’ll answer so everyone gets the answer ( if anyone else cares).
It’s obviously not a compliment
She supposedly won a marathon and it was then discovered that she cheated by jumping in from the crowd near the finish line.
Guess Tex thinks he can draw an analogy & make conclusions…sorry,Tex… Team members don’t care WHAT you think. I check in here periodically…really enjoy it actually, just for the entertainment value.
So where has our other “neggie nellie”.. jt,or jtthompson, or johnny moses or whatever name he’s using right now, been ? Surely, he’s not gone underground ? Maybe he’s just out mentoring with all those big name guys who love hanging with a twenty something who’s just drooling over the fact that he can be an ABO again in Dec …yeah, right !
September 27th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Tex
I just wanted to say thank you…. every time I read any of your posts on numerous sites you make me laugh out loud. It is always nice to have a clown in the house.
Thanks again buddy.
September 27th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
Tex
Oops, forgot to thank you for all of your time and effort to post. It’s good to have so much commitment to a job.
September 27th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
It doesn’t matter either way who wins the case at this point…what does Amway/Quixtar “win” in this case? Team members have to wait 6 months to leave…BIG DEAL!!!! The fact remains that product pricing is still to high no matter how we look at it. And who cares if people make money off tools? People make money off your vitamins, make up, socks…actually people make money on everything! Go make your own training system and you can make money too. The official blog of alticor looks like the bathroom walls of america…I thought this was a billion dollar business? I can’t represent a business that is run like this nor could i ever recommend anyone else to ever again. Good luck to everyone involved.
September 27th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Tex,
1) Support and Eduction is necessary to build a business. I support and endorse the existence of Motivational Organizations. They are very much necessary.
BUT
2) There is rampant abuse.
TEAM has x’ed themselves out of the equation, why not talk about some of the other big culprits that are out there right now that Alticor is not doing anything about?
For waht it’s worth, Joe Marckiewicz (of LTD formerly of BWW) has an e-mail on the internet in which he voices similar complaints to TEAM. He says “diamonds and emeralds are going back to work and people are not making money”. I think it’s a little worrying that a CURRENT Diamond in good standing is talking like Woodward.
September 27th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
Thanks for the help dannie!
To answer your question, I believe jthompson is now dwillians.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
hartazo #75,
Ridiculous. If the IBOAI Board had evidence they told Quixtar the prices were too high, that’s all they need, because Quixtar sets the prices. This is a lame excuse, because I believe the real reason TEAM got out was because of the other part of the UK action, the tool scams being shut down. This is where TEAM (and the other tool profiteers) make most of their money. The lawsuit was a threat that didn’t work, and was further designed to take the focus off the overpriced tools, which is backfiring.
NG #76,
Go to the trouble of collecting the facts, then put them out there without an opinion what they mean, and let people like YOU distort their meaning? No thanks.
hartazo #77,
You are wrong. The buyer doesn’t need an IBO number, but the volume STILL gets assigned to a nearby qualifying Platinum. If you don’t believe me, ask Quixtar or the IBOAI Board blog the question. You’re all wet.
whatever #78,
The defections of Harteis, Wilson, and Haugen are not good for Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward, no matter how you want to spin it.
ltrtltrt #79,
TEAM is no longer in the Quixtar/IBO business. They are in the leadership development business, according to them. Even though they wanted an “early out” waiver from Quixtar.
chris #81,
Do you think your numbers (mileage, pin level, etc.) are typical? I don’t.
The difference between the speeches you mentioned and the TEAM seminars is the others don’t require the amount they are paid (and the resulting profit) to be kept secret.
Do you and others typically buy multiple music CD’s every week?
The bottom line is most of the money comes from tools, and TEAM (and other tool companies) are afraid to admit this fact, because they KNOW their self-proclaimed “teammates” and “business partners” would rightly be upset with them. Get a grip.
Ron #82,
I’ve never had an issue with the content of the tools, and support (for the most part) the information in the tools. It is the lying about where most of the profit comes from, AND the fact it comes from MY back pocket, that is the problem.
Keep it in perspective #85,
Most of them learned how to scam people from Dexter Yager. This doesn’t make it right. It also isn’t okay for a very few who made it through the abuse while many many more lost big bucks to continue the immoral and unethical practices. Your argument has no basis in logic.
Jerad #86,
Do you know anyone who makes a profit from the TEAM tools, and have you asked them about this piece of paper? The other side of the argument is there is no such document (which goes against how fair the TEAM system is compared to the other groups, who play favorites and pay only the people they like), or Quixtar made it up to make TEAM look bad (which would be a very big mistake to submit to the court). Use your head.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
dannie #87,
TEAM members don’t care what I think? Good, the feeling is mutual, because I don’t care what they think, either.
in2win #88/89,
Glad I could be of service. I also have my facts and analysis correct.
JPW #90,
Sounds like you need your diapers changed. The 6 month wait was big enough of a deal for TEAM to file the lawsuit. Haven’t you seen the prices coming down in the UK, and the expected similar “transformation” promised in the U.S.? I care if people make money off tools, especially when they lie about how much they make, unlike the vitamins, make up, socks, etc. If you don’t like the bathroom walls, Just Go, TEAM. Good riddance.
William #91,
Good point. I have mentioned several times the other tool companies and resulting profits are much more like TEAM was than different. These companies don’t have a stranglehold on A/Q as they did in 1983, when they had much more control of the IBO’s (distributors in those days) than they do now, thanks to the advent of the internet and expansion of the business into many other countries instead of mainly the US and Canada. Getting rid of TEAM was only the starting point, and we need to keep an eye on the UK and demand similar changes here in the U.S.
You can’t have TEAM growing fast and the overall business being stagnant for the past decade plus, without most of the other groups declining.
September 27th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
Probably can’t for legal reasons, but can anyone confirm that TEAM vs Quixtar has gone to arbitration?
September 27th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
ibofightback,
I can say with relative certainty that it hasn’t yet. That may very well happen, but to my knowledge no such decision has been made.
Tex,
Speaking of “spinning” … your characterization of the decisions by Harteis, Wilson, and Haugen as “defection” does nothing more than illustrate your typical use of creative writing to make up for your total lack of knowledge on a subject. You don’t have a clue what is in the hearts and minds of these men.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:23 pm
I can’t decide if Tex is more like a fan or a vacume.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:52 pm
IBO UK #64 - you ask why TEAM left when surely we would be facing the same changes here as in UK? Couple reasons. 1 - They were advised by a few attorneys that they could be at risk of civil and criminal charges because it is clear, and they were made aware, that due to the overpricing of products Quixtar was in fact operating as an illegal pyramid due to the lack of retail sales as the FTC outlined. 2 - Amway had an ADA board that later became known as the IBOAI board. There was a contract signed that agreed that the corporation would make no changes that would affect the distributors business without board approval. However, this year Quixtar came to the board and informed them of their decision to change the name to Amway. The board voted unanimously against it. As a result, they were put on month to month and were told they would probably not renew their contract - that’s right, there’s a contract in place to prevent what is being done right now.
Facing potential legal risk, which the corporation put them in, they decided they could no longer promote this opportunity. Because Quixtar doesn’t actually show the plan, it’s the IBO’s, the leaders showing this to groups are at risk because we are presenting a business plan that there is knowledge it’s operating illegally. That is why action had to be taken immediately. They have a lot of documentation from many leaders about how for years they have been asking for lower prices.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
Moderator - I’m glad to see that you track ip addresses. On a former blog that was on here titled “T-R-O Nice T-R-Y”, Tex stated that he has attended open meetings and a BDS of TEAM’s, has cd’s, and he also stated he has cd’s of other groups. I pointed out that is cross-lining, which is in direct violation of Quixtar rules. What is being done about this? Quixtar, being informed of a blatant rule violation, should terminate a business. Is anything being done?
September 28th, 2007 at 12:19 am
Tex#93,
Of course I do. Still, I have never heard of a non-complete clause.
And I think that you and I have already gone over the whole “Quixtar made it up to make TEAM look bad (which would be a very big mistake to submit to the court)” question.
Yes Tex, they would and have lied in court. Repeatedly. About me.
September 28th, 2007 at 12:42 am
Keep it in perspective #85 - AMEN! Wonder if Tex has been in the business that long and why he’s not a double diamond. By the way he talks he’s been around that long.
ibofightback#95 and whatever #96 - it hasn’t gone to arbitration and won’t. There has already been one court ruling in Texas that stated the arbitration process outlined by Quixtar is a joke, basically. Any arbitration must be independent.
Tex, let me tell you who makes profits from tools on Team. Any IBO who has 12 people on one team on system, and 12 more outside that one leg, you qualify for profit sharing. By the way you speak, it’s as if you have been a part of a/q/a for many years. If that is the case, and you still haven’t built a business, maybe you need to take less time focusing on who’s making money on the cd’s and books and actually listen to them and read them (although you admitted you don’t read books that cost more than $1). Then maybe you will get a better attitude, which will actually affect how you deal with people and how many people like you, which I shall refrain from speculating on. Then, when you talk to people, you bring a positive message and they ask what’s different about you. Then you can tell them you are blessed with a wonderful business opportunity (however, I am not saying to lie to them, only say it if you mean it). Then people will want to know what it is. Then you can tell them it’s AMWAY and you might get to show them a plan (with a very, very strong emphasis on might). Then you can give them the QBOB that Quixtar tells you that you have to leave with the prospect (and you have to buy it also - wonder who’s making money off of that tool - are they going to disclose those profits? Of course not - they won’t let BSM companies disclose theirs, so why would a/q/a disclose their own.)
As for the IBOAI board having documents about where they told the corporation that prices were to high, there is. Just watch.
Don and Randy don’t do anything without a reason. Trust me - there’s a very, very good reason. Of course, you won’t know about it.
Tex, you’re a cross-lining indignant business owner.
However, I will defend your spending so much time on here blogging, I guess like a lot of us. It’s not like you, or any of us, really have a viable business to go out and build. What used to be nights filled with showing plans, doing follow ups, getting people started, doing house plans, or simply dream building are now relegated to this.
September 28th, 2007 at 12:49 am
TEX,THAT’S WHY NOBODY CARES ABUOT YOUR POST,NO THINKING GUY,,,UUUHH!! A LOT OF BARNIE BOOKS.
COME ON GUYS WE’RE MOVING FAST….AMWAY,ALTICOR THANKS FOR NOTHING,LEADERS THANK FOR ALL (TEAM)
September 28th, 2007 at 1:19 am
Tex and everyone else out there pointing to Team’s non-compete clause…
First, I am fairly new to Team and am not in a position yet to make money from the system. That being said I have never seen that form let alone signed it.
Secondly, comparing Team’s non-compete to Quixtar’s is very different…
(Assuming the form is still used today..) You see, a new IBO can decide to use Team’s system (not sign a non-compete) until they get a large enough business to make it necessary. At that time the Team office probably delivers the form to the IBO (Turbo 12 or better I assume) and asks them to sign it so they can participate in the money. The IBO can then sign it OR not sign it and continue to use the system. Signing it, they make money from system, not signing it they don’t make money.
With Quixtar, a new IBO has no choice about the non-compete. In fact the IBO doesn’t actually see the non-compete clause in the application unless they read the entire 90+ pages in the Rules of Conduct. I doubt many new IBOs actually read all of it before signing up.
If an IBO only registers some family members (not really building it, in for just a few months), they are locked into Q’s non-compete/non-solicitation for 2 years before they can ask their own family members to join something they may have found to be better. In Team, they are locked in for 1 year ONLY after they have built a substantial business.
Everyone needs to think about how these clauses work and how they are forced upon the person that is being locked in by them….two totally different methods and time frames.
September 28th, 2007 at 2:01 am
TEX
I am not a member of TEAM, but now I wish I were. You have done more to turn me away from Quixtar with your Vinegar remarks than any blogger on this post. I have never seen a better example of “speaking in false tongues” than the ones you provide.
You made the remark that you will go out and build your business after the tools system is fixed. Well, what are you waiting for? Haven’t you heard of Quixtar University? What is your exuse now? Could it be…. high prices? Hmmmmmmm? Or do you just like to sit around playing the victum all day rather than actually do something like make a difference?
People like you rub people the wrong way and cannot seem to say anything nice. You are too busy being a professional critic to build anything but a bad image for yourself and anyone you associate with, including Q/A.
If there are more people like you in Q/A, count me gone.
TEAM.. where can I sign up?
September 28th, 2007 at 4:31 am
Hrmmmm, tools are a scam!
Lessee, I joined the biz in 1984 and got involved with the system. 20 years ago tapes were $5. CD’s now are $6. Gas was less than a buck and now it is close to three. With inflation, shouldn’t they be about $12?
A CD or book is worth about a dime worth of material. It is what is on it that makes it valuable.
Over the years I have paid out several thousand dollars on “tools”. Funny thing about applying what you learn. I built a successful contracting company and sold it for 7 figures. Nice return on investment if you ask me.
Scam me some more please!
September 28th, 2007 at 8:51 am
TEX: are your intitials J.E.V.?
September 28th, 2007 at 9:10 am
toomuchtex - think too much TexMex and you might get the answer ….
September 28th, 2007 at 10:10 am
Tex,
One more time for you…since you evidently don’t, won’t or CAN’T understand…
Team members DO know that there is profit in tools. IT IS NOT HIDDEN FROM US…never has been…repeat after me …NEVER HAS BEEN !!
We are not dupes OR idiots. Anyone in my downline who is involved in the business & on the system has been told…we have all talked about the work that has to be done to qualify for profits from it. Those who are not on system may or may not know..I don’t know about them. But if they are NOT paying for tools, what difference does it make if they know about it. They still get any mentoring from me that they ask for. I still call & checkm on them, ask what I can do, encourage them …EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT ON SYSTEM
That neither makes it wrong, nor makes us dumb.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:14 am
ibofightback: ok, now THAT’s funny!
September 28th, 2007 at 10:16 am
TEX,
What will you do when this is all over? You have a hang up on “tools” and calling it all a scam. I get “tools” from Barnes and Noble, Borders and local book sellers, are you saying they are all SCAMS too. I get books and cd’s from them and many are “tools” that will teach me to be a better person. You need to find a new fight. Looking through the blogs most people are over your “tool scam” issues.
Team has left (as I have) or are in the process of leaving. So why are you STILL concerned with what TEAM is doing, I think your time should be spent worring about your Amway business and how you can be successful in it. I wish you the best of luck.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:22 am
Oh, one more thing, TEX
I also loan a ton of tools to anyone who asks..anytime. I have also given away more than I can count… whatever will help the newest guy who probably doesn’t have any extra money lying around.
I know it trips your trigger to think that there are a lot of people…hundreds and thousands of people on Team ( and I’m sure other groups as well ) who are as generous as we truly are. because if that’s true, it blows your theory that we are all
crooks…hoodwinking the poor, innocent newbie who is kept is the dark about all this.
Sorry…but that theory is just not true. Has it ever happened? I’m sure. But it is NOT the norm…at least not with us.
Finally, I am not even in profit sharing yet…but I STILL have my eyes wide open…why don’t you open yours and get a clue that we don’t need protection from an old,washed up guy who gets a thrill out of being up close & personal with the lawyers of a corporation that is worth billions of dollars and is more than willing to have ripped people off for decades with their overpriced products. Who really is the culprit here ? Matter of opinion. You have yours. It’s yours. Don’t try to make it mine.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:26 am
http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Quixtar_s_Opposition_to_Plaintiffs_Motion_for_Preliminary_Injunction.pdf
its like page 50 of 56. I think its paragraph 15.
- the reason you have not seen this is b/c TEAM ibos have sworn to confidentiality (part of the non-compete). But if you went platinum on TEAM and qualified to earn money from tools/speaking, then you will have to sign Contract before you get paid. It is 12 months, not 6 months like Quixtar agreement.
- ok hopefully y’all can find the non-compete info now - it is in here!
Now bye!
September 28th, 2007 at 11:20 am
To everyone other than Tex:
We should probably not respond to or try to explain the business to him any longer. Is it any wonder that his upline refused to work with him?
I am not being facetious, but it has become apparent he is not a stable person. You should read all the other threads. He has totally monopolized them. His mean spirited name calling is really out of hand. He blames everyone and everything for his miserable life. His complete and total obsession with the tools is beyond all explanation of any normal person.
It has become apparent that he is such a failure in real life that he will say or do anything behind the disguise of a computer to get attention and boy, are we giving him what he wants!
To Tex:
Just go, Tex.
September 28th, 2007 at 11:49 am
http://teamquixtarlawsuit.blogspot.com/2007/09/teams-non-compete.html
Freetheibo has disabled their court docs for at least the time being - so here is the non-compete!
Your Welcome!
September 28th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
jd #98/9,
You are wrong. The IBOAI Board doesn’t approve ANYTHING, they remove and recommend, they have NEVER had approval authority. If Quixar’s prices were found to be an illegal pyramid, all they would need is proof they recommended Quixtar lower the prices. This is a smoke screen to cover up the rules violations they were committing. Nothing more. If Quixtar was illegal, don’t you think many more from the Board would have quit? You don’t know if being put on a month to month basis had anything to do with their recommendation not to change the name back to Amway, this is pure speculation. Perhaps they have been on a month to month in previous years because the negotiations were delayed for other reasons.
You are mistaken about cross-lining. You probably have been lied to by your upline that buying tools from more than one source constitutes cross-lining.
Jerad #100,
Prove that Quixtar lied about you.
jd #101,
The books may not cost more than $1, but they are the SAME books you read.
50 cents for each reusable full color multipage QBOB? Profit? Are you serious?
Where have I cross-lined? Name the rule, not your upline’s distortion of the rule, which is misused to minimize the tool scam discussion.
Steve #103,
There are other important differences. Quixtar’s non-compete is in published rules, the TEAM non-compete was (until now) secret. The facts of how much money you make with Quixtar are shown in the marketing plan, TEAM’s tool money was (until now) kept secret. When contract terms are kept secret from those you call your “partners” and “teammates”, there is a huge problem.
Regarding your family, there is nothing prohibiting them approaching YOU about your new business, and a normal family relationship would probably get around to these types of discussions without you starting the conversation, so your point is virtually pointless.
September 28th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
DeathbyTex #104,
I wish you were a member of TEAM as well. If you don’t like the facts, go put your head in the sand. Where have I once been “speaking in false tongues”?
The overall tool scam must be fixed. Otherwise, I could go and spend my time, effort, and money to put together a business, which then gets shut down (overall, not just mine) because they didn’t clean up the mess. It has nothing to do with high prices, although lower prices would be welcome. No, I like to sit around correcting others spelling, such as the word “victum”, which is correctly spelled “victim”. I am doing something that is making a difference, like getting rid of people like you who can’t handle the facts.
I hope I am rubbing the tool scammers and anyone who supports them the wrong way, they deserve it.
Sounds like you’re a perfect fit for TEAM. You can go to the freetheibo sites to contact someone to sign up in their new “vulture venture”.
September 28th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
timeandmoney #105,
Tapes/CD’s are only one source of the tool profit.
Most people don’t own businesses they can later sell, so you are a rare exception, as MANY more people have been ripped off and not recovered their “investment”.
NG #106,
Do you think I would tell you if they were? Do you mean Jody Victor, or someone else with those initials? I don’t do very well with playing these types of games, just put the names out there.
ibofb #107,
That could be either end….and you can never have too much TexMex anyway. Maybe too many Mex’s in Texas, but not too much TexMex.
September 28th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
Hey its the best thing out there, no one can wreck it. yeah thats right they said that about the titanic. wow if you knew you on the boat that was about to sink what do you do..JUMP… and hope you can swim,,,, oh just a reminder the boat did SINK.. mmmmm
September 28th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
what is the differance between Amway and the titanic.,, one already sunk..
September 28th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
To Tex: You know, no one ever actually MADE you buy any system tools, so what’s with all your obsessive droning about it? There’s a cure for that, you know…. DON’T BUY ANY! It’s always been your personal choice anyway.
So your continuing diatribe has no basis in logic (to quote yourself…)
I’m not aware that anyone voted you to be our champion to protect us from the evils of system tools anyway. We’ve all heard you loud and clear. Enough already. Get on another topic.
Have a nice day
September 28th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
More for Tex:
Please help us help you. What points would you like us to concede so that you’ll stop going on ad nauseum about the same things?
Do you want us to agree that tools don’t work? Ok, they don’t work—for you.
Do you want us to agree that someone is making money off the MANY tool systems out there? Ok, we all agree to that. After all, the point of being in business is to make a profit.
Do you want us to agree that you haven’t been able to build a business because of your problem with tools? I think we can all agree with you 100% on that one….
What else would you like us to agree with you on? Please let us know so we can help you put your demons to rest.
Thank you so much for your cooperation.
September 28th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
dwilliams,are you thee Dan Williams?
September 28th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
Tex,
When bloggers start to call themselves “Toomuchtex” and “DeathbyTex” don’t you start to be a little concerned about your reputation on the web? Or do you enjoy the attention? Even if the “tool issue” was resolved to your satisfaction I can imagine you becoming obsessive about some other fringe detail and constantly going to battle over it. When you’re turning off people on both sides of the TEAM v. Quixtar dispute, I don’t see anything productive emerging from your blogging career. (I also don’t see the point of turning off only those on one side of the dispute, but since you’re nearly universally regarded with disfavor, I recommend retiring.)
September 29th, 2007 at 1:36 am
tex has become a true phenomena, it seems in his attempts to badmouth Team he has actually created more read-able support for Team. I’m not sure who tex is, but he goes at this posting stuff like he’s getting paid to do it.
And let me point out that many diamonds have had major issue’s with Amway/Alticor/Quixtar, many have left. The constant in this situation is Alticor. Each situation that arises is simply a natural consequence of the way they relate to the field. They want a better image, yet every so many years they seem to piss off a group of their best promoters. That is not the way to a better image. You know what Alticor just did? They just created their next batch of critics. They have given so much credit to the arguments of the older critics and created new ones. Doesn’t matter who is right and who is wrong, if anybody is, it doesn’t matter who wins in any case. Unless they want to start selling around their distributors, the growth of Alticor/Amway is based upon people saying good things about them to other people. If you think of the P/PC balance, the goodwill between the IBO’s and Alticor represents the PC, and the revenue they generate for Alticor is the P. If you want more P (Production) you need to consider your PC (Production Capability). I’m not saying don’t deal with situations that need to be dealt with, just to go about it in a more human less corporate way.
Also letting highscool kids write their corporate blogs didn’t help.
September 29th, 2007 at 6:33 am
Hmmmm. Came here thinking this was the Alticor weblog. I see it’s run by somebody nicknamed “Tex.”
Strange…
September 29th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
dannie #109,
If TEAM knows what the profits are, then why don’t you list them here? If you know what the profits are, did you know you are breaking the TEAM tool profit contract posted on the web site? Which is it dannie, do you know the profits or not? If you know, you’re breaking your own contract. If you don’t know, you’re blustering. Pick one.
dannie #112,
I am in agreement the prices could be better, but the much larger problem is the tool scam. At least the Quixtar prices are on the table, the tool scam profits are required, by contract, to be kept secret. I’ll take the deal that’s on top of the table, even if not ideal, over the secrets under the table any day. I’m not trying to change your opinion, you’re a lost cause. All I’m doing is applying pressure against the remaining “kingpins” and the corp, and educating those who haven’t been blinded by the lies as you have.
Mary Ann #114,
To everyone, especially Mary Ann:
I have noted when you can’t argue with the facts and logic I provide, all you can do is whine about me. I don’t say anything against others unless and until they first direct negative comments towards me. Get a grip.
September 29th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
Tex #116,
I should have stated, at the beginning of the post: You are wrong. The IBOAI Board doesn’t approve ANYTHING, they REVIEW and recommend, they have NEVER had approval authority.
RICK #119/20,
The Titanic was on it’s maiden voyage when it sank. A/Q has been around for almost half a century. Therefore, your analogy is a poor one.
Keep it in perspective #121/2,
Of course they don’t make you buy any tools, they just say “tools are optional, but so is success”. They love you when you buy tools, then ignore you when you stop your standing order. This is based on my personal observation and comments by many others.
So my continuing “diatribe” has outstanding basis in logic (to quote myself…)
You missed the vote. Actually, I nominated myself, because someone had to step in the gap and stop the tool scam. I will stop this topic when it is fixed.
You can’t help me, because you’re not one of the folks who can stop the tool scam. The only thing you can do is change sides and demand tool profit transparency. The “ad nauseum” will continue until the scam no longer exists.
Do you want us to agree that tools don’t work? Ok, they don’t work—for you.
The question isn’t that someone is making money, it is WHO is making HOW MUCH money. After all, the point of having “teammates” and “business partners” is to be honest regarding these facts.
I want you to agree there has been a scam in place for several decades, negatively affecting millions of former and current Distributors/IBO’s, and has caused MUCH more financial damage than the small number of “success” stories. You should be able to agree 100% with that one….
There isn’t much else to agree with, but agreeing without doing anything about it doesn’t accomplish much, does it? Also, I have no “demons” to put to rest, just facts that need to be acted on, as the UK DTI has already done. You try to make it sound as if I’m some weird kook or something, yet deny the facts and deny what has already happened in the UK. Get a clue.
September 29th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
Mary Ann,MGA,aem,
Just ignore the lone star state. If no one reads his posts or answers him he will end up talking only to himself.
You can also go to to the forums.freetheibo.info site. Most everyone from this blog is on that one too. The IBOAI blog has a pretty good moderator that doesn’t put up with trolling or repetetive posts.
September 29th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
Lee Ziegler #123,
I think he’s the former jthompson.
Aron Gannon #124,
No, when bloggers start to call themselves “Toomuchtex” and “DeathbyTex”, I realize they know they are wrong and can’t handle the facts. I don’t enjoy the attention, I enjoy the progress against the tool scam. If the “tool issue” was resolved to my satisfaction I will ride off into the sunset and build my Amway business, as I have said on other occasions when others have raised the same question. There are more people who agree with me than you may realize, they just don’t post as often. I’ll “retire” from blogging when the scam is fixed.
aem #125,
More support for TEAM? That’s a classic misread of the situation. I don’t think I heard that one, Randy Haugen and Don Wilson were making too much noise running out the room with Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward. Come again?
I’ll bet you wish I was getting paid to blog. In a way, I am. All of the millions of future IBO’s won’t get scammed on tools. I will be able to build my own Amway business and not have to worry about the tool scam causing a negative reputation as it has for the past several decades. That is payment enough for me, but if you want to throw some cash in my direction, I’ll set up a way you can do just that.
Most Diamonds have left over the tool scam issues. Take a look at a list of them, and you will find most of them were over tool profit issues: the Morrison group, the TIF group, Bruce Anderson, Ken Stewart, Brig Hart, to name a few. ALL over tool profit issues.
The constant in this situation is the tool scam. Each situation that arises is simply a natural consequence of the way they relate to the field. They want a better image, yet every so many years they seem to piss off a group of their best promoters. That is not the way to a better image. You know what tool profiteers just did? They just created their next batch of critics. They have given so much credit to the arguments of the older critics and created new ones. It does matter who is right and who is wrong, it does matter who wins in any case. Unless they want to stop selling their tool scam, the growth of Alticor/Amway is doomed. If you think of the P/PC balance, the goodwill between the IBO’s and tool profiteers represents the PC, and the revenue they generate for the tool profiteers is the P. If you want more P (Production) you need to consider your PC (Production Capability). I’m saying deal with situations that need to be dealt with (the tool scam), and go about it in a more human less scamming way.
Also letting highscool kids write their corporate blogs helped a lot, it makes the conversation less “white stuffed shirt”, and more real.
September 29th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
MGA #126,
Hmmmm. Came here thinking this was the Alticor weblog, and found it is. I see it’s run by somebody nicknamed “Alticor Media Blog Administrator”. Strange…or perhaps a vast right winged conspiracy…. Is your real name Hillary?
September 29th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
I twice politely asked the moderator to deal with the tex thing; no action. I think a reasonable person would conclude that tex’s vomit is not only welcome here, but desired by the powers that be.
September 29th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Nice, Alticor. You say you moniter comments. I guess you have no problem with a RACIST taking over this blog. ref: Tex #117
September 29th, 2007 at 7:46 pm
Gosh, I haven’t been here in a while. Very interesting stuff.
dwilliams, AKA jthompson, clearly you have not READ the non-competes. According to TEAM’s I can’t sell BSM for one year. According to Quixtar’s I can’t do ANYTHING for six months at the very least. Ask your attorney to review it. I can’t work for, manage, consult for, or in ANY way be affiliated with any company that markets ANY products at all similar to those sold by Quixtar, if they use ANY type of distributors. NOT JUST MLM DISTRIBUTORS. All soft drink companies sell their products through…distributors! Cosmetic companies all sell their products–even those at the mall–through…distributors! I could go on.
Also, the six months is very ambiguous as to when it starts. According to the Rules, you are considered an IBO for two FULL calendar years AFTER you quit or are terminated. So that “six month” thing can go on for … years!
And Tex, gosh, what fun you are. Yes most money comes from tools. BECAUSE THERE IS NO MONEY IN QUIXTAR!!! And sure, I’ll ask Quixtar or the IBOAI Board about that volume that gets assigned to the nearest Platinum when someone buys directly from the company. I’ll just bet they’ll answer honestly. Like they always do.
September 29th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
Now let’s talk about honesty. Has anyone noticed that in some of the Quixtar briefs they claim the lines of sponsorship are their proprietary, trade secret, competitive advantage? That they have spent over 40 years developing?!
So who among you remembers when the LOS was the distributors’ property?
I think the compensation plan, product formulas, warehousing, manufacturing methods, and distribution systems could all be considered proprietary and trade secrets. But the line of sponsorship consists of the people I contacted, brought into the business, trained, called, supported, traveled to, and on and on and on, and I do not think that is Quixtar’s property any more than my refrigerator.
But then again, Bardelli would probably argue that somehow Quixtar does own my frig. Hmp.
September 29th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
roster change is simple team attorney strategy! Of course Tex wants everyone to think otherwise! Harties backed out for financial reasons and these guys left as a result of strategy! Everyone including Harties still supports the team!
September 29th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Somethnig for tex to think about. .
I’m a Quixtar IBO, I am have signed contacts to be one. As a IBO I am bound by those contracts, so it makes total sense for me to know and understand these contracts. Now the customer’s who buy quixtar products through me have not signed any contracts with quixtar, they do not benefit from any pay plan quixtar might have, so it would be a little outta place to inform them of all the contractual rules I’m bound by when they buy some XS. So far so good? See where I’m going with this?
You say. . . “The facts of how much money you make with Quixtar are shown in the marketing plan, TEAM’s tool money was (until now) kept secret. When contract terms are kept secret from those you call your “partners” and “teammates”, there is a huge problem.” How so? Those that are part of the Team pay plan need to understand those rules, but those that do not participate in the pay plan don’t. Same as my XS customer doesn’t need to know about the non-compete clause I entered into with Quixtar, I don’t need my upline to tell me about the non-compete contract he entered into when I buy the book of the month. If I choose to become part of the pay plan, at that point it would be in line to fill me in on all the rules. And again let me remind you, everything that is happening right now with Team and Quixtar has to do with the Quixtar business, not the Team business. This is not a System’s issue. It never was. The question at hand is “does Quixtar operate illegally?” If yes then the non-compete clause is void, if no then IBO’s who no longer wish to stay with Quixtar wait out 6 months and go do something else. And remember tex, that is the question and it is being asked in court, they are not asking you.
September 29th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
# 112 and 114 dwilliams
I am on the Team and in profit sharing for over 1 1/2 years and have not had to sign anything period. I get my check like clockwork and they are 3-4 times what I was getting from Quixand so don’t feel you are so smug when you don’t have accurate facts
September 30th, 2007 at 1:30 am
A question for Tex,
Nobody argue’s that Team has a profit sharing plan for everything related to their System, you’ve seen and read and picked apart the contracts. And we know that there have been diamonds who had their own systems, Chuck’s was even accredited(know what that means?). So how much money do you think Chuck, Don and Randy walked away from to be a part of Team? If they were all about ripping people off with their system it makes no sense to leave it behind and align with a system that shares all profits. While we’re on the topic, it would also make no sense for Team to have a profit sharing plan if they were just another system’s business trying to rip people off with useless tools. In mathematics there is something called Proof by Contridiction, if you make a assumption and then make logical deductions from it and arrive at something that makes no sense it follows that you assumed wrong. So Tex, go under the assumption that Team is just trying to rip people off with tools, and that diamonds in Team are doing the same and explain why 1) Team would share profits and 2) Chuck, Don and Randy would all leave their system behind to align with Team. I know you’re a smart guy so I look forward to reading your response.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:54 am
I thought this was going to be a serious followup to the Wilson-Haugen press release… Now I see it is a comedy relief place… This is really funny. Including the mex guy and his spelling. I am enjoying this.
I think the blogger who posted that they were back to soliciting customers said it right. It IS a lot of fun and there are some really great products available. I have been looking at WWDB’s personal retail sites… WOW…. Amway on the net… the time has come!
September 30th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
WOW, I have not been on here for a few days and all I see is TEX everywhere…you must really live in your grandma’s basement and blog all day…Go outside…it is perfect weather!!
October 1st, 2007 at 3:07 am
IT’S OVER….WE READY!!!!
TRUE LEADERS,,,,LANCE,RANDY,WISON,ORRIN,CHRISS,TIM THE’RE ON THE FUTURE, TO MUCH FOR QUIXTAR.
October 1st, 2007 at 10:56 am
aem #124 (for now, the numbers change sometimes)..
I agree with several of your comments.
1. Alticor has done a bad job with this site and it general for PR. They have done more harm than good. After 16 years, I certainly wouldn’t sponsor someone right now. Team or not.
2. They have ticked off thousands of people, so much so that I have read posts of people calling state AG and BBB and SEC, etc. etc. I think that is one of the reasons Don & Randy pulled back. Alticor created their own feeding frenzy, with Quixtar as the bait.
3. Tex. Usually a real pain. He can’t decide whether to bad mouth tools, Q/A, or Team, or even Randy and Don from trying to ease the tention. I certainly wouldn’t want Tex in my group. Usually I just skip his comments, or figure the opposite is true.
I wonder how many IBO’s have quit, or like me, just turned off the auto-renew, and am waiting to see what really is going to happen. I have till the end of year.
October 1st, 2007 at 11:12 am
Tex
In post #128 did you just copy and paste what I wrote but change out any reference to the coperation for a reference to the tool scam? I know you are trying to use my words against me, but you implied Alticor and the “tool scamers” are acting together, which does support my assertion that the problem is with the way Alticor Inc relates to the field. Doesn’t it?
October 1st, 2007 at 11:51 am
DLSChicago #129,
That’s right, ignore me. Don’t try to point out my facts are wrong, because they aren’t. Don’t try to point out my logic is wrong, because it isn’t. Ignore me, that way I’ll get the last word in for the new bloggers to read.
toomuchtex #132,
The moderator didn’t comply because they allow all points of view. They also find my comments not only spot on, but entertaining. Just like Rush Limbaugh, I can show the weakness of your point of view with half my brain tied behind my back, just to make it fair. My “vomit” is the facts you don’t want to face.
astonished #133,
Did you mean post #118? The fact that I have an issue with millions of ILLEGAL aliens in our country makes me a racist? Interesting definition.
LisBette #134,
Gosh, based on the credibility of your comments, you should have stayed away longer.
There is very little practical difference with the TEAM and Quixtar non-competes, except TEAM’s is twice as long. In both cases, you can’t make money from another business during the time periods.
Also, the six months is NOT ambiguous as to when it starts. According to the Rules, you are considered an IBO for two FULL calendar years AFTER you quit or are terminated for solicitation reasons. So that “six month” non-compete “thing” can go on for … six months!
And LisBette, gosh, what fun you are. Yes most money comes from tools, thanks for comfirming that. BECAUSE THERE IS NO MONEY IN QUIXTAR? Really, then do you lie every time you have shown the marketing plan? And sure, don’t worry about asking Quixtar or the IBOAI Board about that volume that gets assigned to the nearest Platinum when someone buys directly from the company. I already did it, and they have answered honestly and consistently to me on the telephone and on their various blogs.
October 1st, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Has anyone noticed that without our buddy TEX this blog would be different - a lot different. What what Alticor pays a hour to blog? Your paycheck must be pretty good with all the blogging you are doing!
October 1st, 2007 at 12:08 pm
LisBette #135,
Quixtar’s point is they are the founders of the business and have taken significant risks to provide you products and services to create an income. That is the nature of their “ownership” of the LOS, which has not been successfully challenged in ANY court of law. Even Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” and his high-paid lawyers know this, as they have to convince the court Quixtar in an illegal pyramid, as they know they can’t challenge the “ownership” issue directly.
Quixkicked #136,
Roster change is simple team attorney strategy? Wow, some of the cockroaches scatter when the light is shined on them, and that’s their “strategy”? What do you mean by “Harties backed out for financial reasons”? I’m sure they do support TEAM, that’s why they are on the sidelines cheering on Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward and his shrinking cast of characters. Now THAT’S TEAMwork.
AEM #137,
Somethnig for AEM to think about. .
I’m a Quixtar IBO, I am have signed contacts to be one. As a IBO I am bound by those contracts, so it makes total sense for me to know and understand these contracts. Now the customer’s who buy quixtar products through me have not signed any contracts with quixtar, they do not benefit from any pay plan quixtar might have, so it would be a little outta place to inform them of all the contractual rules I’m bound by when they buy some XS. So far so good? See where I’m going with this?
You say. . . “The facts of how much money you make with Quixtar are shown in the marketing plan, TEAM’s tool money was (until now) kept secret. When contract terms are kept secret from those you call your “partners” and “teammates”, there is a huge problem.” How so? Because ALL IBO’s are told they are “teammates” and “business partners”, not just the ones making the tool profit. Those that are part of the Team pay plan need to understand those rules, and those that do not participate in the pay plan are kept in the dark. Not the same as your XS customer doesn’t need to know about the non-compete clause I entered into with Quixtar, because they are a customer, not an IBO. If you “choose” to become part of the pay plan? Has anyone ever turned it down? If so, check for a pulse. And again let me remind you, everything that is happening right now with Team and Quixtar has EVERYTHING to do with the Quixtar business AND the Team business. Take a look at the UK, there is MUCH more to do with the tools than the Amway business that has been shut down. This is a System’s issue. It always has been. The question at hand is “does TEAM operate unethically/immorally?” Yes is the right answer, for those of you who want an “open book” test, as Quixtar referred to when finding new IBO’s didn’t even know they were involved with Quixtar after telling them that they were. So, the non-compete clause is not void. And remember AEM, that is the question that was asked in the UK and it needs to be asked in the CA court, whether they ask me or not.
October 1st, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Warriors in the field #138,
Thanks again for confirming the tool profits are MASSIVE. What pin level are you at?
AEM #139,
Nobody argue’s that Team has a profit sharing plan for everything related to their System, you’ve seen and read and picked apart the contracts, we agree about that. You “forgot” to mention “secret profit scamming…oops, I meant sharing) plan.
Chuck being accredited? Doesn’t mean much to me, and I have been on record since the program was first made known and I called Quixtar and found out this doesn’t mean the IBO’s know the level of the MASSIVE tool profits.
So how much money do I think Chuck, Don and Randy walked away from to be a part of Team? By Don’t own words, they went from 60,000 to 10,000 at monthly seminars the past few years, so it looks to me they needed more IBO’s so they could increase their tool scam income. Makes perfect sense to me, but then you have to be willing to think about the facts in the first place. 1) Team would share profits because if they don’t, the new Platinums and above would create their own tool scam systems, which would be a loss in tool scam income for Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward and Co., and 2) Chuck, Don and Randy would all leave their system behind to align with Team as described above. I know you’re not guy who likes facts, so I don’t look forward to reading your response.
Negative Nancy #141,
WOW, you should have stay away for more than a few days and all I see is Tex accurate. Both of my Grandmothers are dead and someone else lives where they used to live. I don’t “blog all day”, I was outside over the weekend gardening and playing basketball, and the weather was perfect.
October 1st, 2007 at 8:07 pm
#132- “BECAUSE THERE IS NO MONEY IN QUIXTAR!!!”
I’ve been a Q-12 Platinum for 4.5 years avg about $3500/mos Quixtar bonus and about $400/mos + free functions w/ system.
There is no money in Quixtar only when you don’t build a proper/balanced business.
October 1st, 2007 at 10:37 pm
Just a few thoughts from Chan.
I have watched everything from August 9th on and here is where I am at. Quixtar, Amway, Alticor all of them have LOST. And they have Lost big! The ramifications of what has transpired will not be measured for years. It will take years to see what will be lost by the incredibly stupid actions of Amway, Quixtar, Alticor. Amway, Quixtar, Alticor will never, NEVER work to any significant level without a system outside of Ada. The most effective system ever created for the business today is the TEAM’s system. The Quixtar University is a pathetic excuse from some office sitting people up in Ada who have never been in a living room, driven hours to a no show or had to build a person’s dream to any level. I NEVER thought, Never thought the corporation would get and stoop to the level they are at. I have no pride left in the business I have and have spent my entire adult life building. I Business that I once knew is GONE, that is what is gone, not Orin. Orin WILL BE THE Wal-Mart on the Internet. The people who run the corporation, The Lawyers and Executives, Not the IBOA board or th founding families, will eventually die or loose their jobs BUT My dreams and so many other peoples Dreams are inside of them. They have just been thrown against the rocks and corporation does not care. New product line LOL (laugh out Loud)…Teach me through the Quixtar University LOL…. Lower Prices LOL… New Money in the Plan LOL. Get off the fact people make money on tools… I am glad they did BUT TEAMs system is the only FAIR system out there. Here is my thoughts to you who have a problem with it. If the Corporation did not have to support the 7 families that feed off the profit of the corporation maybe there would be more for those of us who drove the miles and did all we did to get them there. We are so far from what Rich and Jay established years ago and I do not see us getting back to that EVER!
October 1st, 2007 at 10:57 pm
Tex#115,
Look, I ain’t here to prove anything. I am, however, here to state me opinion just like everyone else. Also, I want to explain my opinion.
Why do I feel like I do? Because Q lied to me. How do I know that Q lied to me? Because they were stupid enough to lie to me ABOUT ME! I can’t prove that here anymore than you can prove that you’ve actually been to any TEAM meetings or have listened to any TEAM audios.
October 1st, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Dear Team Members, and all other IBO’s
I just came home from a small vacation from the Alaska Bush where most of my family resides and most of my relatives also live. In rural Alaska the average income is less than 17,000 a year and that is for those who have a job my village has 150 people living there, the price for a can of soda is $2.00, cigarettes $12.00, a gallon of gas is over $6.00 the products and services that Quixtar provides are a God-Send for those who live in the rural villages of Alaska. in my opinion your arguments are futile. (whatever side you’re on)
October 2nd, 2007 at 12:18 am
HEY, Hello? It seems everyone has lost thier grip. should any of us really be in business
if all we are focused on is backbiting and issues that are being debated in court. A question for everyone: Who appointed you Judge?
only God has the Authority to appoint judges.
I love you all,
Duet. 8:18
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:21 am
I have read for the last month all the negative comments about tool systems and I have to express my thoughts here. I have been involved with Q/A for 28 years between 2 different LOS. I have participated in 4 different tool systems during that time and qualified to receive compensation from 2 of those systems, one of which is TEAM. During that time I have never once regretted spending the money to purchase that education even when I wasn’t being paid from tool profits. I have always experienced growth in every other area of my life because of that education,including financially in other endeavors.
When I compare those 4 systems to TEAM, my CDs cost less, my Major Convention tickets are $40+ less, and the value is far greater than any other system I have participated in previously. In fact, I would say that the value of the Team education system to me and everyone on my team is priceless. I would never have been able to build the business to the level I have without that education. It also pays fairer than any other system I have participated in previously and if you are wondering, I DID NOT have to sign a non-compete.
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:41 am
Tex, not all tool systems are as fair as TEAM and if you would climb out of the box you are in towards the tool systems, you’d find they are not entirely to blame for the situation in the UK and the US right now. Even IBOfightback questions this on his blog because with the tool systems shut down in the UK right now, the DTI is still after Quixtar. I know you are passionate about your cause, but very few on this blog agree with your thinking that the Team system is a tool scam and that we need to be saved from it’s evils. I am an independent thinker and I know where the growth in my business has come from and it wasn’t from retailing products. I have retailed plenty over the years and at one time was the “Amway calling” woman as well as an Artistry consultant, a Nutrilite specialist, etc, etc, etc. I have found that the last few years it has become harder and harder to retail and even to get my new IBOs to use their own products because of PRICING (of all things). I have always had my head in the sand when it came to negative about Quixtar but I am so grateful to be part of the TEAM so I can recognize the TRUTH this time around. Thanks TEAM!
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:28 am
Tex,
You are not thinking. The lens you are using to process this situation with Team and Quixtar is bent. Parachutes that don’t open can be fatal, minds that don’t open can be fatal to. The strength of your argument would be so much more if you weren’t so biased. You know the boy that cried wolf? You’re screaming it at anyone that comes by. You could be totally right about everything you say but nobody is gonna believe you. If you got burned on tools, either directly or because the tool business’ have created a negative image for the A/Q business that works against you, let it go. There’s people who were given the same shot as you were that have made a lot of money. If you think all the money is in tools, then great, learn from somebody elses business till you know what you’re doing and start your own tool business. People have done just that. Why don’t you? Then you’d be a “king pin” and you’ll be in a position to actually have influence, you could set the standard for ethics in the Tool business, give it a good name. Why whine about it instead? Mad enough to complain but not to do something about it? Excuses or results tex?, you can have one or the other.
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:57 am
TEAM_MEX #142,
It was over August 9th. You’re ready for what?
Utah #143,
I disagree with several of your comments.
1. Alticor has done a great job with this site and it general for PR. They have done more good than harm. After 14 years, I certainly would sponsor someone right now. But not with the TEAM method.
2. They have ticked off thousands of people, but those aren’t the people interested in an ethical or moral business. When the state AG and BBB and SEC, etc. etc., get the calls, they will find they are baseless. I think the main reasons Don & Randy pulled back is they saw the writing on the wall, and they were on the wrong side. Alticor created their own feeding frenzy, with Quixtar as the bait. The only thing that remains is to cast the net over the shrimp, cook ‘em, and enjoy the shrimp cocktail, shrimp scampi, shrimp casserole, etc.
3. Tex. Usually a real sharp guy. He decided a long time ago TEAM was a good opportunity to bad mouth MASSIVE tool profits, and Q/A hasn’t done enough to fix the issue. …even Randy and Don from trying to ease the tention? That’s funny. They’re running scared, as they should. I certainly would want more people like Tex in my group. Usually I just study his comments, and figure the comment is true.
I don’t wonder how many IBO’s have quit, or like you, just turned off the auto-renew, and are waiting to see what really is going to happen. Because it’s all over except for the fat lady singing. She has till the end of year to warm up.
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:11 am
AEM #144,
Yes, I did just copy and paste what you wrote but change out any reference to the coperation for a reference to the tool scam. I am not trying to use your words against you, but I am pointing out where the facts lead me, and it isn’t to your position. I didn’t imply Alticor and the “tool scamers” are acting together, I have said for a very long time Amway has known about the problem since at least as far back as 1983 and hasn’t done enough about it. If you call that “working together”, so be it. The corp STILL hasn’t gone on record whether they directed the tool profiteers to hide the profits from their IBO’s. Which does support your assertion that a part of the problem is with the way Alticor Inc relates to the field. It does.
in2win #146,
I’ve noticed that without our buddy TEX this blog would be different - a lot different. That’s why I’m here. You said, “What what Alticor pays a hour to blog?” They don’t pay anything for incomplete sentences. My paycheck must be pretty good with all the blogging I’m are doing! In fact, you wouldn’t believe it if I told you.
TS #149,
What system are you using? How much tool profit does your upline Emeralds and Diamonds make?
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:31 am
Chan Man #150,
Just a few thoughts from Tex.
I have watched everything from 1959 on and here is where I am at. Quixtar, Amway, Alticor all of them have WON. And they have Won big! The ramifications of what has transpired will not be measured for years. It will take years to see what will be gained by the incredibly correct actions of Amway, Quixtar, Alticor. Amway, Quixtar, Alticor will never, NEVER work to any significant level with a system outside of Ada. The most ineffective system ever created for the business today is the TEAM’s system. The Quixtar University is a great resource for teaching how to market the products to customers and other IBO’s. I ALWAYS thought, Always thought the corporation would get and rise to the level they are at (and there’s more to do, by the way). I have much pride in the business I have and have spent a major part of my adult life building. A Business that I once knew is GONE, that is what is gone, and good riddance, especially Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward. Orin WILL BE THE Wal-Mart on the Internet, cheap and junkie. The people who run the corporation, The Lawyers and Executives, the IBOA board, and the founding families, will eventually thrive and succeed in their their jobs AND My dreams and so many other peoples Dreams are inside of each of us. Orrin was right been thrown against the rocks because the corporation does care. New product line LOL (laugh out Loud)…AND more to come LOL. Looks to me like Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward and Co. HAD to leave when they did, because they knew Quixtar was in the brink of fixing their only basis for a lawsuit. Orrin knew about the UK, and how the prices were being reduced. Pulled the rug right out from under Orrin’s feet. The real issue is th UK shut down the tool scam, so he had to sue now, because his “high product prices” excuse was going away, AND he knew it. The Quixtar transformation has been announced for months. We see right through your “strategy”, Orrin. Give it up. Teach me through the Quixtar University LOL…better than the tool scam, it’s free, too. Lower Prices LOL…guess Orrin is in real trouble now. New Money in the Plan LOL, too bad Orrin isn’t around to enjoy it…NOT. Get on the fact people make MASSIVE money on tools… I am glad they did, but they should have been honest about the level of profit with their self-proclaimed “partners” and “business partners”. TEAM’s system is not the only FAIR system out there, and it thankfully isn’t even “out there” any more. Here is my thoughts to you who have a problem with it. If the “kingpins” did not have to support the hundreds of families that feed off the profit of the tools maybe there would be more for those of us who drove the miles and did all we did to get them there. We are so far from what Rich and Jay established years ago and I do see us getting back to that SOON!
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:45 am
Jerad #151,
Look, I am here to prove something, and that something is the tool scam is the main problem. I am also here to state me opinion just like everyone else, and my opinions are based on facts. Also, I want to explain my opinion.
Why do I feel like I do? Because the tool profiteers lied to me. How do I know that the tool profiteers lied to me? Because they often talked about how they provide “free” counselling and advise, when they were getting handsomely paid via the tool scam. Because they would invite various upline/crossline speakers into major functions and at the end present them a gift (painting, statue, etc.) as “a token of our appreciation, because we could never pay you for your contribution to our weekend, and you could have been on any beach of the world, but you came to help our group, etc., etc.”, and at the same time they were getting paid 5-6 figures for their “help”.
If Quixtar was stupid enough to lie to you ABOUT YOU, you should be able to prove it! As far as I know, all they said is they wanted you to confirm you will follow the rules, regardless of whether or not you have followed them in the past. That isn’t lying about you, that is smart business. Get a grip. I can prove that here that I’ve actually been to TEAM meetings because I have the notes, receipts and cancelled checks, and have sent e-mails to Quixtar to complain and talked to Quixtar lawyers about these meetings. I would be committing perjury if I gave testimony and wasn’t really there. I can also prove I have listened to TEAM audios, because I can list a tape number, you can ask me the title and contents, and I can tell you what’s on the tape. Try me.
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:48 am
Eric Vanlandingham #152,
Are you saying we should sponsor in Alaska because the prices of other products are so high, or we shouldn’t, because people don’t have much money?
October 2nd, 2007 at 8:57 am
TEX….TEX….TEX….TEX….TEX….
Just trying to get your attention…I really need to know about this whole tool scam on TEAM. Can you elaborate more on what it is. I was told that if you hit certain levels then you qualify for profit sharing, but it sounds like you know something i don’t. Please supply me with some details about the scam and where the money is going…if you would prefer you can email me at matt1audio@yahoo.com . thanks for your support
October 2nd, 2007 at 9:07 am
It seems obvious that “Tex” is a European employee or contracted blogger for Alticor, Quixtar, Amway, Access Business Group, or perhaps directly hired by an officer of one of the above. The use of “Tex” is an obvious attempt to come across as an American, but uses the term “spot on”… not exactly an American term.
I wonder if there is anything true that comes from “Tex”?
October 2nd, 2007 at 9:13 am
Eric 151,
So let me get understand what you said for the 150 people living in a rural area of Alaska, the overpriced products are less over priced than other things that are being bought in that rural area, Though I will agree the prices that village is paying for stuff seems outrages, but the ole’ saying tend to the masses and you will live with the classes still stands true, I can’t speak for all of america but I would say from what i see on the blogs it rings true that the rest of america has prices in normal stores cheaper, a lot cheaper, than amway’s pricing.
October 2nd, 2007 at 9:19 am
Eric V.
That is wonderful that The Q has found the select few in this country that it actually benefits, Maybe when the Q collapses, your family will still be able to buy their product from oversees and have it shipped directly to their home. Your passion about this matter is felt, but realize that the 99% of the USA is not in that situation. When TEAM is out of this rediculous Non-compete clause call someone you know on the TEAM. Rest assured that your family will be able to shop online, but also save money and make money within a short period of time.
I cannot promise you anything, but in a town of 150 people they could be at the forefront of the new shopping and reap greatly for it.
October 2nd, 2007 at 9:29 am
Moderator,
When do plan on leaving Alticor, I mean how much could they be paying you an hour to sit here and read all of this. Having the well balanced insite you demonstrate is wonderful, but you have to realize that there is something extraordinary to the TEAM for sticking it out like this. I am not getting paid anything right now, notta, zilch. We would like to know your opionion on all of this, email me.
October 2nd, 2007 at 10:09 am
Chan Man #149:
Yes, Alticor has lost a lot. However, hundreds of thousands of other IBO’s have also lost a LOT because of the Team leaders’ ill thought out actions.
Unfortunately, the people that stand to lose the most are the TEAM IBO’s, especially the smaller ones. Any network builder will tell you that confusion kills your business. As we say in South Africa, when the elephants fight, it is the grass that gets hurt.
Why do I say their actions were ill thought out? Because if they had simply resigned, they only needed to wait six months, to start their new venture. But they were greedy, they wanted to take their downline with them, never mind the fact that it was as much their (O+W) upline’s Quixtar business as their own. They also did not consider the impact of their actions on IBO’s in other BSG’s. But then they have disregarded other people and their interests all along in the way they have built their business.
October 2nd, 2007 at 11:21 am
Eric #151
That’s great for those who live in the Alaska bush…unfortunately, MY friends, family and work associates live 10 minutes from the local Walmart, Kroger, Target & Sam’s Club. THEY think Q prices are a joke !
So YOUR point is pointless….perception IS reality folks….ever heard that ? Doesn’t HAVE to be true, but if you believe it is, THEn IT IS. If the prices are too high (in anyone’s opinion,) then for THAT person, they are TOO HIGH. And for a WHOLE LOT of the American public, this IS the opinion they have chosen to hold.
Do all the Q supporters actually think that we are making this stuff up ? One of my closest friends came into this business, really wanting to make some additional income…I neither encouraged, nor even asked her to go on system..knew she just didn’t have the extra funds to do so…loaned her stuff…over & over. But she ordered TWICE…said she just felt like she was wasting money on the products, even though she agreed that they were excellent quality. Said it was poor stewardship of her resources when she KNEW she could buy similar quality items cheaper @ Wally World.
Don’t you know if you can’t convince a really good friend that the products are worth the price, then you probably can’t convince anyone else ? SHE WANTED TO MAKE THIS WORK !!
Again…DO YOU PEOPLE THINK WE ARE MAKING THIS STUFF UP ??
October 2nd, 2007 at 11:49 am
I do not recall who posed the question about when the 6 month non compete starts but my wife and I recieved our resignation confirmation from Q/A/A and it states clearly that it begins from the date of resignation. You must wait two years to solicit any IBO that is affliated with Q/A/A.
Hope that helps! I have heard the following poem may times and it sure has applied to the TEAM’s system.
I am not what I ought to be,
Not what I want to be,
Not what I am going to be,
But I am thankful that
I am better than I used to be.
We can all become better people each day and the CD’s, Books, etc are making my life better each day.
October 2nd, 2007 at 11:57 am
Tex #155
Your opinions are based on facts? Isn’t that an oxymoron? Just like:
Jumbo shrimp
Government Intelligence
Quixtar Integrity
Also, if you have been to TEAM meetings, what organization are you affiliated with? If it isn’t TEAM you crosslined. I want an investigation!!
October 2nd, 2007 at 12:03 pm
matthew #158,
You don’t have to repeat my name 5 times to get my attention, but thanks for the “plug”.
If you really need to know about this whole tool scam on TEAM, read the various court documents and blogs. You were told that if you hit certain levels then you qualify for profit sharing, but it sounds like you don’t know the amount of money. Please supply me with some details about the scam and where/how much money is going, no need for e-mail, put it on the blog.
amazed #159,
It seems obvious that “amazed” is dead WRONG about me being a European employee or contracted blogger for Alticor, Quixtar, Amway, Access Business Group, or perhaps directly hired by an officer of one of the above.
The use of “Tex” is an obvious attempt to come across as an American, but uses the term “spot on”… not exactly an American term? Take a look at this site, it looks American to me: www.spot-on.com.
How come I don’t “misspell” other words, or use other terms you consider “European”? I wonder if there is anything true that comes from “amazed”?
Get a life, “amazed”, that dog don’t hunt (”Amurican” enough for you?). How ’bout you having a “big hat, no cattle”? That one is generally a Texan saying. Do you know what these mean, “amazed”? I’d be happy to “splain” them to you, if needed.
October 2nd, 2007 at 12:14 pm
hey ALASKA,
what you say doesn’t really make sense…prices are this high,,,yada yada yada…and it’s better to order online through Q to get them…
well lets think about it…if you are going to order online, you can get walmart pricing goods to your door online. so why would you pay 12 for some cigs, or 24 for some sa8, when you can get stuff cheaper online on other websites.
if stuff is really expensive out there, and noone makes money, wouldn’t it make sense to buy the cheapest available product? just a thought
October 2nd, 2007 at 12:46 pm
MonsterMash #168
Ditto….oops wrong word
I couldn’t agree more…great post
October 2nd, 2007 at 12:49 pm
Chris #162,
When do you plan on constucting real sentences, your first one left out the word “you”.
Alticor should be paying the moderator for this information, because you TEAM folks have left a gold mine for their attorneys. Keep up the good work, Chris. Many companies use blogs as a means of communicating with the marketplace, this is a very smart move on A/A/Q’s part. They are MUCH more open than many blogs, including the IBOAI blog, which haven’t posted several of my inputs.
I don’t think the moderator has demonstrated (not that they couldn’t) well balanced insite (should be spelled “insight”, at least over here in Europe) as much as they have allowed various points of view, something the other blogs should learn from.
The only thing extraordinary to the TEAM for “sticking it out like this” is they were willing to have it chopped off when their hand was caught in the cookie jar.
I am not getting paid anything right now, notta, zilch. The purpose of this blog is to get YOUR input, the Moderator moderates, that’s why they call them the Moderator. Similar to a moderator in a politial debate, they set up the question/issue, and let the politicians duke it out.
Piet #163,
You are right, but the elephants also stir up the ground and leave their “fertilizer”, both of which will help the grass grow in the long term. Kind of messy at first, but very “green” later on. And in the U.S., that’s the color of money. Or for our European friends and “amazed”, the colour of money.
October 2nd, 2007 at 12:58 pm
dannie #168,
I would suggest reality is reality, and the high prices in Alaska that may make Quixtar attractive there do not exist in most of the U.S.
You can’t use a single data point to make an overall conclusion. What if someone likes the convenience, and has a lot of money, enjoys the quality, does this make the business right for everyone? Absolutely not. Perhaps your friend heard the drumbeat of “buy tools” at the Opens and Seminars, and felt she wasn’t cut out for the business. Or perhaps she couldn’t even afford the Opens and Seminars, because of the high cost.
Monster Mash #169,
You are music to Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward’s ears…cha-ching.
matthew #171,
Maybe Walmart doesn’t deliver, or the delivery prices are high, to the Alaskan bush. Did you verify these issues prior to criticizing Alaska?
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Tex:
You ought to find some other line of work. With your attitude towards people, you will NEVER succeed in this type of business… with or without tools. Who would want to follow you with all your nastiness and sarcasm and need to prove yourself right above all else?
Have you even read “How to Win Friends and Influence People”? It explains why you can’t win an argument. So we can only conclude that you have NOT read it since you’ll try til you die to win your arguments.
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Tex # 172
no, i did not consult walmart.com or any other site to confirm that they deliver out to alaska. you got me there…common sense is a little bit easier to use though than research sometimes. anyway…
by the way tex, you haven’t answered my questions posted to you in # 161. I am eagerly awaiting your reply to…i want to know who is making money off of me..thanks
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Tex,
In post #171 you left out the letter “r” in the word “constructing”… just seemed like that kinda thing might be important to you. Carry on.
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:57 pm
TEX:
Is Orrin reaping the only benefit? If you read my post with clear glasses you would have seen that I stated I was getting something out of it. If I buy Cd’s, books, etc and become a better person, I think I win.
I am on system by choice and I understand the profit sharing plan. I also was never forced to join the system, I chose (FREEDOM BUDDY). In fact at any time I can get off system.
I am sorry for your confused thoughts! Best of Luck!
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:42 pm
Piet 166
You said “But then they have disregarded other people and their interests all along in the way they have built their business”
What do you mean exactly? There have been several people on the various Alticor blogs making the same accusations. Usually they are just repeating heresay or making generalizations with nothing to back them up. After I have called them on it we usually don’t hear from them again. Do you have first hand knowledge that “they have disregarded other people and their interests all along in the way they have built their business”?
Nothing personal, just curious.
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Keep it in perspective #175,
I suggest you follow what your name implies, and “keep it in perspective”. This debate isn’t about me, it’s about issues related specifically to the TEAM fiasco, and more broadly, the Quixtar and related yet separate tool scam businesses. You can try to make it about me, because you can’t handle the facts, but it’s not about me, never has been, and never will be.
I ought to find some other line of work? No thanks, this is important, and who are YOU telling me what to do? With your attitude towards people, you will NEVER succeed in this or any other type of business… with or without tools.
Who would want to follow me with all my nastiness and sarcasm and need to prove yourself right above all else? I use “nastiness and sarcasm” with those who have their heads firmly planted in the sand . If you knew how I conduct myself in the rest of my life, you would be shocked it is actually me, but I am saying things that need to be said, and stating the truth. I don’t have a need to “prove myself right above all else”, I have a need to speak the truth above all lies.
Have you even read “How to Win Friends and Influence People”? Yes. More than once.
It explains why you can’t win an argument? I am not trying to win an argument, I am speaking the truth. The truth can’t get into an argument, it is the simple truth, laid bare for all to see, and if they are engaging their brains, they will see it.
So we can only conclude that you have NOT read it since you’ll try til you die to win your arguments? No, see above, read it and weep. Don’t try to hide behind a book to keep the lies of the tool scam going. It’s a misuse of the book. The book assumes you are dealing with basically honest people. I wouldn’t try to win the friendship or influence any career scammer, especially Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward and Co. I think the best approach is to shut them down, and it’s moving along quite nicely right now, thank you very much.
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Eric,
I agree with you regarding the rural Alaskan prices. I also have family there. They get most of their stuff from Costco who does some kind of bulk drop for the community. They felt that some of the Amway stuff was competetive but Amway shipping was still pretty steep and there were also delivery restrictions. I imagine it is different from one rural community to another. There are Walmarts in the larger cities though.
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Piet,
I agree that a lot of IBOs have been affected by the TEAMs actions. I’m thinking that in the end it will turn out in everyone’s favor.
A lot of IBOs were asleep before all of this started. Now there may be more IBOs questioning the actions of Amway rather than allowing agreements to quietly change behind the scenes and agreed to unknowingly under automatic renewal.
Amway itself lost a lot of leaders, volume and future growth over the last few weeks. Most former IBOs have even changed their Q Visa to a non-Q affiliated one. I really believe Amway is phasing out the IBO structure and moving toward a new sales rep type structure which will phase itself out completely over the next couple of years. Time will tell on that one.
Time will also tell how much TEAM is affected. I myself am looking forward to the change.
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:08 pm
Not to seem like a heritic, but this reminds me of a situation back in Jeruselem a couple thousand years ago. Not that I am saying these guys are a gods or something but the lesson should be learned. When you attack the underdog the ones who have made a great deal of difference in peoples lives you fan a flame that you can’t snuff out. If you can’t learn from history we are bound to repeat it
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:15 pm
I don’t know why I got this email…
Dear IBO:
Many IBOs choose to attend meetings and functions that help train and motivate them to become more successful as QUIXTAR® IBOs. While we at Quixtar certainly support this activity, we have recently learned that some IBOs are inviting, and even pressuring, other IBOs to buy tickets to and to attend certain functions whose purpose is NOT to build the QUIXTAR business. Some of these are local Open meetings at which IBOs openly encourage other IBOs to leave Quixtar. Others are major functions.
Please understand that all solicitation by IBOs of IBOs who are not personally sponsored to attend meetings and functions where the QUIXTAR business is not promoted and where a competing business is promoted are clear violations of Rule 4.14, which prohibits IBOs from soliciting other IBOs who are not personally sponsored for other selling activities. Also, such solicitation by IBOs of any other IBOs represents a clear violation of Rule 6.5, which prohibits IBOs from participating in/promoting a competing business.
If IBOs, or former IBOs upline or crossline from you, are pressuring you or IBOs downline from you to buy tickets to meetings and functions where the organizers are not promoting the QUIXTAR opportunity, please let us know immediately, at qbcrdepartment@quixtar.com
We at Quixtar stand with you and can enforce the rules against IBOs who try to violate them – but we need your help. You and other IBOs in the field are in the best position to detect and report this type of Rules violation.
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:18 pm
The Non-compete team agreement in the Quixtar filing that no-one has seen before…this explains why..
From the Forum.freetheibo [ no it is not my post ]
by Barrister on Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:06 pm
I want to take this opportunity to address a rumor floating around regarding the Team contract. As I visit various blogs and peruse the IBO forum, I notice that several bloggers are under the impression that the Team contract contains a non-compete provision. As the Chief Legal Counsel for Team, I can assure everyone that the rumor is false.
During my tenure as in-house attorney for Team, there has not been a single contract executed with a non-compete. Initially, the agreement contained a non-compete after a Quixtar appointed lawyer drafted the agreement. When the non-compete was brought to the Policy Council’s attention, they reviewed the document and decided that the provision ran contrary to their core beliefs in free enterprise. Since they were building a business of volunteers, the non-compete provision was counter-intuitive to their stated goals of serving the customer. As such, the provision was deleted. I hope this clarifies any confusion on the issue.
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:36 pm
Tex
All you do is spout off and slam people! Facts are facts! The TEAM was the fastest and the most organized of any Quixtar organization. From day one I was made aware of the system business and its profit potential. Every IBO I sponsored was given this same information as we set turbo goals! The people engaged on the Team knew everything they wanted to know about system income. There never were any secrets! So, go ahead! Keep spouting garbage from the side of your european mouth, the more you speak the less weight your voice carries!
October 2nd, 2007 at 8:15 pm
I think a chill pill is in order. Did everyone forget we all got into this business for the same reason? I think so. It doesn’t matter what side your on, theres a LOT of bashing going on and its not necessary. We all have the same dream.
October 2nd, 2007 at 8:42 pm
One more “roster change”. I missed September by a couple of days (although I haven’t attempted to post a comment for a few days), but found out today I have been “banned” by the IBOAI forum.
So if you think the IBOAI wants to be open or transparent, think again.
Here’s my message to them, feel free to repost it on that and other blogs.
Yes folks, this is the group that claims to represent all IBO’s.
IBOAI Moderator,
You’re no better than the freetheibo site, by not posting my comments in response to pvbvguy, as well as my previous post to your comment on my most recent post. As a reference point, that puts you just below the belly of a snake in my mind.
I guess since I’m not a “paying member” of the Tool Scam Club (I cancelled/requested a return of my $9/year fee to the IBOAI, as I consider this organization inept), I am ignored, much like my upline did to me when I went off standing order tools. My “reward” for doing that was my Platinum signed a change of LOS for my only active upline, so I’m not surprised by your action a single bit. Par for the course.
This means I will concentrate on interfacing directly with the corp., as it is obvious you don’t even want to get a clue, let alone having a clue.
October 2nd, 2007 at 8:52 pm
Oops, should have stated: “My “reward” for doing that was my Platinum signed a change of LOS for my only active DOWNLINE, so I’m not surprised by your action a single bit.” However, my upline has been “missing in action” for a while, so perhaps this was a Freudian slip.
October 2nd, 2007 at 9:01 pm
#165 Chris:
Why would the mod quit? S/he gets paid to do the same thing that you do for free.
October 2nd, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Tex#159,
Now this is a riot. Tex, you said,”If Quixtar was stupid enough to lie to you ABOUT YOU, you should be able to prove it!”
Ok, how? Look, if someone came up to me and told me that I was cheating on my wife, how could I prove any different? Especially if the accusers aren’t very specific about times and offences. That’s why the American system isn’t set up to prove innocense. It is set up to prove guilt.
But Q isn’t held to that standard in your eyes. They make these false claims and you require proof that the accused are innocent. You don’t ask for any proof that the accused are guilty.
Have Q proved that Chris and Orrin “not Rosie” have a new MLM? Have they proved that they have stacked businesses? Have they proven that TEAM improperly positioned the business? Have they proven anything? Hell, have they presented any evidence at all about anything…ever?
But I’m just talking into the wind because these pesky little details matter not to you.
October 2nd, 2007 at 9:42 pm
Tex 171,
It is YOUR assumption that I cannot construct a sentence. Can you read numbers? Tell me if these are different 162 and 165. My comunication to the moderator is one of concern for the guy caught in the middle, we all know where you stand.
I wont waste more time on you. Your ship is sinking.
October 2nd, 2007 at 10:19 pm
Many of you would be surprised to realize the number of years of reading, and of training others to be readers (of good books on leadership) that these men who are the focus of these blogs have done. For that reason alone, I know that these men have far more faith in the future than most of you would agree to. They would be excited about the futures they see, and, hardly batting an eye at the so-called ‘challenges’ of being terminated by Q. They have other plans and goals they are pursuing and their focus is elsewhere, definitely are NOT counting their losses, and are simply somewhere else in body and mind. Q may be great but there are actually other ways to do great things. For those of you demonizing any others at all, have you checked your wallet???? No one with any real wealth does that, and I would caution that it will hurt YOU more than any other thing you can do. The poor always vilify the rich!!! Thats why they are poor, having told ‘themselves’ repeatedly that to be otherwise is ‘evil’ ………
October 2nd, 2007 at 10:53 pm
Gee Texie#180,
First you claim that TEAM blogs don’t like you, now you claim Q blogs are also censoring you. Maybe…and hold on here for a minute ’cause it’s gonna get crazy…just maybe the problem is YOU! Perhaps it isn’t the various blog mods.
Just something to look at.
October 2nd, 2007 at 10:53 pm
Tex, 157
Andy Andrews read a letter from Quixtar to his attornies at a conference once. The letter was in response to TIF’s tool compensation plan. Quixtar said “your plan presents challenges under our rules unless its income oppurtinity is limited to a small percentage of high pin level IBO’s” Now let’s assume for a moment that Mr. Andrews was making stuff up, just for a second forget that statement. I know that on the Team site they had a diagram explaining how all the Team profits (from CD’s, Books, seminars, and speaking) were put into a profit sharing plan (they didn’t explain the details of the plan). This is one of the things Quixtar took issue with, they did now want prospects to know there was a profit sharing plan for Tools. Now what good reason could they possibly have for that? Well what makes the most sense to me is they want to avoid confusion. If people see the Quixtar plan and then see or are told about the multiple incomes, one from quixtar and the others from the training organization, they might get in the Quixtar business to become a part of the training organizations pay plan, not quixtar’s. Then instead of promoting quixtar products they promote the system and nothing but the system, making quixtar simply a front for the tool business they plan on building. Quixtar having concerns about that to me make sense, but again I don’t know why they wanted Team to remove the tool profit explanation from their site. But when I consider what I know they did and the possible reason why they would do it the Andy Andrews comment fits perfectly in with that picture. I don’t want you to just believe or reject what I post here, I want you to think about it, ask youself what makes more sense.
October 2nd, 2007 at 11:21 pm
It may be just my opinion, but for what it’s worth, I think it is important for us to remember that the issue in all of this is not the business (Quixtar) but how a certain group of individuals chose to use the tools and information at their disposal.
Every person involved in this business should fully understand what they are expected to do and not to do as an IBO no matter what stage they are at. We are all given the same rules and regulations to read and understand. We are all offered the same help and support for our businesses.
For anyone to allow this incident to affect the way they run their business is ludicrous. I believe in this business opportunity and the people that make it happen.
Just because a salesman at a company might have lousy business practices, I won’t stop buying from them (or selling for them) if I believe in the product and the leadership of that company.
Stuff happens. Life goes on. The lawsuit is someone else’s stuff. Arm yourselves with the truth and move on.
October 2nd, 2007 at 11:52 pm
jack #179,
One huge difference, the early Christians didn’t lie about where they made their money (or in their case, placed their faith) and were too cowardly to admit to same when confronted with the facts.
Utah #180,
That took a long time to straighten out. No wonder TEAM has been losing the various court cases, their lawyers are a week or two behind the power curve. Can you have Barrister post the actual contract? I doubt the “keep secret” sentence was removed, or Barrister would have bragged about that one as well.
Quixkicked #181,
All you do is spout off and slam people? Sounds like one of us needs their diaper changed, and it isn’t me. Facts are facts, your’re right on that one!
The TEAM was the fastest and the most organized of any Quixtar organization, but they had to break the rules to be “successful” That would be like me robbing a bank and saying, “Look how rich I am”.
From day one you were made aware of the system business and its profit potential? Then tell us what you were told. How much does the typical Platinum and above make in the TEAM organization?
Every IBO you sponsored was given this same information as we set turbo goals? Then tell us what you told them as well.
The people engaged on the Team knew everything they wanted to know about system income? Not all of them, I guarantee that statement.
There never were any secrets? Then cough up the numbers.
So, go ahead? Don’t worry about that, I will.
Keep spouting garbage from the side of my european mouth, the more I speak the less weight my voice carries? How can I speak with less weight than the retreat of Randy Haugen and Don Wilson several days ago, and the clear defeat of TEAM in the Texas courts today?
October 3rd, 2007 at 12:25 am
matthew #176,
Common sense may be a little bit easier to use than research, but sometimes gets one to the wrong answer. It seemed to me like someone not making much money would find the best deals available, but that’s just my common sense kicking in.
I did respond, it was message #158 when I saw it. You want to know who is making money off of you? It’s your upline.
whatever #177,
Good catch, I’ll have to dock some of the pay for my fellow European Alticor employee, the Moderator. They are supposed to catch things like that for a fellow European Alticor employee, you know.
Monster Mash #178,
Is Orrin reaping the only benefit? Of course not, but it is far from an even trade, let alone an ethical one. He’s got you hook, line, and sinker. (Or is that a European saying, “amazed”?)
I’m glad you understand the profit sharing plan, but many others feel ripped off. I also was never forced to join the system, and I was also told the system is optional, but so is success. I was also ignored and had my only active downline at the time send me a fax to change LOS signed by my upline Platinum. You call THAT choice? In fact at any time you can get off system, just don’t expect to be treated by your upline as you are now.
I am sorry for your confused thoughts! Best of Luck!
Jake #179,
It’s called the tool scam. Read up on it.
DLSChicago #182,
I agree that a lot of IBOs have been affected by the TEAMs actions. I’m thinking that in the end it will turn out in everyone’s favor.
A lot of IBOs were asleep before all of this started. Now there may be more IBOs questioning the actions of their upline rather than allowing agreements to quietly change behind the scenes and agreed to unknowingly under secret deals.
Amway itself lost a lot of “leaders”, volume and future growth over the last few weeks, but they were bad leaders and needed to be removed.
Most former IBOs have even changed their Q Visa to a non-Q affiliated one? Wow, that will be a huge PV hit….NOT.
I really don’t believe Amway is phasing out the IBO structure and moving toward a new sales rep type structure which will phase itself out completely over the next couple of years. Time will tell on that one, but check your brownies, I think they may be “spiked”.
Time will also tell how much TEAM is affected. I myself am looking forward to the change.
October 3rd, 2007 at 12:45 am
So tex, your upline shuns you, you active group left you, your chicken to build; does your breath stink?
October 3rd, 2007 at 12:51 am
Oneforall #186,
I think a chill pill is in order. Did everyone forget we all got into this business for the same reason? I think don’t so. The issue is we got in for Quixtar profit, but the upline stayed in for MASSIVE tool profit. It doesn’t matter what side you’re on, theres a LOT of bashing going on and it’s necessary until the tool scam is fixed, as it apparently is being fixed in the UK. We don’t all have the same dream, because we don’t all have the same source of profit.
GirlPower #189,
That was a good one, wish I had thought of it. I can hear the SLAM! from here, you know, somewhere in Europe? Of course, there is a Paris, Texas….
Jerad #190,
How do you prove Quixtar lied about you? You could start by stating what they said about you, and why it’s a lie. I offered proof for the things you said I couldn’t prove, so where is your proof? Your “cheating on my wife” analogy isn’t even close to what you’re trying to say about Quixtar is saying. Grow up.
What specific false claims has Quixtar made about you?
Has Q proved that Chris and Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” have a new MLM? They don’t have to prove it, Orrin and Co. stated they didn’t want to follow the 6 month non-compete rules. Why else would you request that, if you didn’t have something immenent in the works?
Have they proved that they have stacked businesses? Quixtar stated they have worked with Orrin and his Orrinites for years trying to fix a number of issues, and Orrin hasn’t pushed back one inch on those charges.
Have they proven that TEAM improperly positioned the business? See above.
Have they proven anything? See above.
But I’m just talking into the wind because these pesky little details matter not to you.
Chris #191,
Sometimes the numbers for the posts change, that’s why I use the numbers AND the name.
drifter #192,
Good name, your posts are drifty as well. One thing is for sure, you’re consistent. If Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward has “other plans and goals they are pursuing and their focus is elsewhere”, he wouldn’t be suing Quixtar.
Jerad #193,
First I claim that TEAM blogs don’t like me, now I claim Q blogs are also censoring me? Not even close, the IBOAI is led by the leaders of the tool scams I have said are the main problem. This isn’t a surprise to me at all. In fact, I now wonder what took them so long to boot me.
Maybe…and hold on here for a minute ’cause it’s gonna get crazy…just maybe the problem is they can’t handle the truth, just like YOU! Perhaps it is the various blog mods.
Just something to look at.
October 3rd, 2007 at 1:06 am
AEM #194,
I’ve seen that video. It’s here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpyvMleL5vQ
The problem Quixtar had with TIF is they were paying ALL IBO’s tool profit, which makes it an illegal pyramid, as there are no (or very little, certainly much less than 3.4%) external customers for tools. The video was made in about 2001, so from a current view, it is ancient history, given that the tool profit paste is out of the Glister tube, and the UK DTI has essentially closed down the tool businesses.
I don’t want you to just believe or reject what I post here, I want you to think about it, ask youself what makes more sense.
bctraci #195,
The problem is TEAM is not the only group scamming their downline on tools. In fact, some of their prices are less (slightly, so don’t get high and mighty with me, you Orrinites) than many other tool systems. TEAM is only a visible example (thanks to the various court documents and direct statements of various loose-lipped, testosterone driven Orrinites), of a much larger tool scam problem, which is already being effectively dealt with in the UK.
October 3rd, 2007 at 1:54 am
#187 & #188 Tex
Are you saying that, because you were no longer “on system” in the TEAM LOS, that your Platinum repostitioned an active IBO in your downline to a different part of their Platinumship?
Can they “legally” do that without your permission, your signature?
What “argument” did they use–that you as the Sponsor were not fulfilling your role to train, motivate, and supply that active IBO?
October 3rd, 2007 at 9:46 am
Tex #187
It all makes more sense now, thanks. You are angry about what your upline “did to you”, so you attack the group that grows and makes you feel bad.
Perhaps everyone should give poor ole’ Tex a hug
Seriously… we should all be thinking more about loving (God’s love) each other instead of attacking each other. Only through unconditional love can people truly help people.
The whole “battle” between Quixtar and TEAM can be stopped if Quixtar would simply follow a single line of thought. Either TEAM would be competition as the “WalMart” of the internet, or not. The non-compete should be deemed mute.
This is not a people vs. people battle and should be isolated from personal attacks.
October 3rd, 2007 at 10:25 am
Is it “possible” that your only active downline didn’t want anything to do with you any longer, as a simple matter of weight loss (getting you off their back)…
As you are quick to point out … rules exist for reasons … and there’s a reason why this downline wanted to be moved … right?
October 3rd, 2007 at 10:33 am
TEX #198
Thanks for the advice but I have gone off system once or twice since I began and my upline platnium has continually helped me out. I can’t speak for everyone’s upline, but mine is a class act.
October 3rd, 2007 at 10:39 am
Tex,
I’ve read your assetion that Team scams people on tools. Help me out, I’ve bought a lot of Team tools and feel like a got way more than my money’s worth, explain how Team scams people on tools? I can’t figure it out
October 3rd, 2007 at 10:57 am
Tex,
You only active downline wished to be moved to another LOS…why in the world would anyone who respected their upline consider doing such a thing….just imagine that !
The more you talk, the clearer picture we all are getting of you.
October 3rd, 2007 at 11:04 am
“We don’t all have the same dream, because we don’t all have the same source of profit”. Tex, like I mentioned before, since you know all the ‘real’ money is in tools why don’t you start your own tool business?
“I also was never forced to join the system, and I was also told the system is optional, but so is success”. Looks like you didn’t go with either.
“I was also ignored and had my only active downline at the time send me a fax to change LOS signed by my upline Platinum. You call THAT choice?” That is exactly what it is. Your downline at the time made a choice. If my upline fell off system and acted anything like the way you’ve presented yourself on these blogs, I’d do everything I could to change LOS. There’s a book out there called “How to Win Friends and Influence People” if you had plugged into the system that book probably would have been recommended to you, if you had bougt, read and applied it you’d probably still have that downline aswell as many many more. See tex, the system is there to help you, if you refuse the help and then don’t see the results you want, don’t be suprised. I don’t know if you were being ignored before or after you dropped system, but if it was after, it’s not called being ignored, it’s called good business thinking for your upline to spend time with those that are serious enough to be on system. One more thing, what do you suggest should be done with the tool business? You’ve done a awesome job pointing out a problem, but do you point to any solutions?
And stop claiming victory for Quixtar in texas, it’s a change of venue, it’s deciding where the case should be heard. Nobody has won anything, nobody has lost anything.
October 3rd, 2007 at 11:10 am
Bridgett,
I think it was upline not downline.
October 3rd, 2007 at 12:23 pm
bctraci #196,
You’re right, it is important for us to remember that the issue in all of this is not the business (Quixtar) but how a certain group of individuals chose to use the tools and information at their disposal.
Every person involved in this business should fully understand what they are expected to do and not to do as an IBO no matter what stage they are at. We are all given the same rules and regulations, but many of us were encouraged NOT to read and understand them. We are NOT all offered the same help and support for our businesses.
For anyone to NOT allow this incident to affect the way they run their business is ludicrous. I believe in this business opportunity and the people that make it happen, as this case provides several important lessons. As was once said, “Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it”.
Just because a salesman at a company might have lousy business practices, I won’t stop buying from them (or selling for them) if I believe in the product and the leadership of that company, but I will learn from the incident.
Stuff happens. Life goes on. The lawsuit is NOT someone else’s stuff, it affects all of us. Arm yourselves with the truth and move on.
toomuchtex #199,
So tex, your upline shuns you? Only when I stopped the standing tool order.
You(r) active group left you? Yep, but only because upline mis-stacked them.
You(’re) chicken to build? Not chicken, it just isn’t the right time.
Does your breath stink? Only when I chew on your garbage.
October 3rd, 2007 at 1:53 pm
Tex#200,
Huh? Please respond to my points instead of rewriting my posts. You’re acting like a 5 year old. Please, if you can’t be truthful in your posts at least be mature.
October 3rd, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Bridgett #202,
Are you saying that, because you were no longer “on system” in the TEAM LOS (it wasn’t TEAM LOS, or even LOA, at that time), that your Platinum repostitioned an active IBO in your downline to a different part of their Platinumship? That’s right, the Platinums apparently sponsored their daughter/son in law (who they didn’t even know), then tried to sponsor our downline under them. I complained to Quixtar, but they told me there wasn’t much I could do if they were willing to sit out the 6 months. Turned out their daughter/son in law had been IBO’s within the previous required timeframe (I think 2 years), so our downline then had to sit out 2 years. I also had some of our downline’s customer volume stolen in the middle of one of the interim months and complained about that, and that money was returned. Appears the Platinums were doing their best to “earn” a position on the TEAM. Hey look, we can inappropriately stack as good as you guys, can we be on the TEAM?
Can they “legally” do that without your permission, your signature? They apparently can do it without my signature, but they had to wait the 6 months, which as described above, turned out to be 2 years. If I had signed the request, they could have moved immediately.
What “argument” did they use–that you as the Sponsor were not fulfilling your role to train, motivate, and supply that active IBO? They originally said they wanted to move because I didn’t want anything to do with our tool system, which I explained to them I didn’t want to be involved with PORTIONS of the tool system, so they changed the wording to be with a group that was “moving on”, and to be associated with their daughter/son in law. But in the end it didn’t matter what the wording was, I didn’t sign it. I gave them the option of staying with the current tool scam or joining us in an ethical, honest, and moral tool system, but in any event I never said I would refuse to train and motivate them.
amazed #203,
You don’t have a clue, this isn’t about me. It’s about literally millions of Distributors/IBO’s over the past several decades, that have been ripped off for hundreds of millions to billions of dollars via the tool scam. I was a single example, one of literally millions. I’m not angry, I am determined to shut down the tool scam. I don’t feel bad, I feel better every time another brick is removed from the building that holds the tool scam secrets. Lately, the bricks have been removed in bunches.
But I’ll take hugs, hugs are good.
Seriously… we shouldn’t all be thinking more about loving (God’s love) each other instead of attacking each other. We can do that AFTER the tool scam is taken down, and we are dealing with more honest people. Only through unconditional love can decent people truly help people. If you feel so good about your “true and unconditional Godly love”, take it to the streets of Baghdad and see how long you live.
The whole “battle” between Quixtar and TEAM can be stopped if TEAM would simply follow a single line of thought. Either TEAM would follow the rules or continue to get stomped in the ground. The non-compete should be deemed a rule to be followed by all IBO’s, because it protects OUR businesses.
This is a people vs. people battle and should be isolated from personal attacks, but then people are people, aren’t they? What do you expect when you try to get the entire company declared an illegal pyramid? An invitation for tea and crumpets? (that was for our European friend, “amazed”)
G #204,
Is it “possible” that our only active downline didn’t want anything to do with you any longer, as a simple matter of weight loss (getting you off their back)? I wasn’t “on their back”, I gave them a choice of tool systems.
As you are quick to point out … rules exist for reasons … and there’s a reason why this downline wanted to be moved … right? Rules can also be misused.
Monster Mash #205,
Good for you, I never claimed every upline acted exactly as our did, but ours DID act as I described.
AEM #206,
You’ve read my assetion that Team scams people on tools? Help you out, you’ve bought a lot of Team tools and feel like a got way more than my money’s worth, explain how Team scams people on tools? You can’t figure it out? It’s quite easy, if you’re willing to engage your brain. Let’s compare your view to a home run. Does that mean every pitch results in a home run? The facts indicate not. Same with tools.
dannie #207,
You(r) only active downline wished to be moved to another LOS? Not really, they wanted to be moved within the same LOS, above me.
Why in the world would anyone who was getting ripped off via the tool scam by their upline consider doing such a thing….just imagine that! I know, it is hard to imagine, but that has been taken care of for now.
The more you talk, the clearer picture we all are getting of you.
AEM #208,
You asked, “Tex, like I mentioned before, since you know all the ‘real’ money is in tools why don’t you start your own tool business?” That’s what I’ve done, but if the overall problem isn’t fixed, then all the time, effort, and money I spend in building my business could evaporate.
Looks like I didn’t go with either (tools or success)? I went with both, but didn’t get second one, because it is a scam and not supportable, especially since additional information regarding the scam has surfaced on the internet.
“I was also ignored and had my only active downline at the time send me a fax to change LOS signed by my upline Platinum. You call THAT choice?” That is exactly what it is? I thought tools were optional, yet I had my downline taken from me when I exercised that “option”.
My downline at the time made a choice? They sure did, and it resulted in a 2 year waiting period, unless they signed up somewhere else besides under their daughter/son in law.
If your upline fell off system and acted anything like the way I’ve presented myself on these blogs, you’d do everything you could to change LOS? Check your assumption, I acted NOTHING like I present myself on these blogs. They were given a choice to get their tool support from wherever they chose, just like the rules state.
There’s a book out there called “How to Win Friends and Influence People”, but it shouldn’t be misused to teach you how to win friends and influence scam artists, it is for how to win friends and influence people. I did plug into the system, and that book and others was recommended to me, via a book list. I did buy, read and applied it, and don’t have that downline as well as many many more that were lost to the tool scam over the years. The system is there to help you in theory, but it’s a scam. I didn’t refuse the help and then didn’t see the results I wanted, so I was suprised, until I figured out it was a scam. I know I was being ignored after I dropped the system, and it’s called being ignored, plain and simple. It’s not called good business thinking for my upline to spend time with those that are serious enough to be on system, because the system is optional and the support is required whether I particpate in the system or not.
What do I demand be done with the tool business? I’ve done a awesome job pointing out a problem, but do I point to any solutions? Sure do. Require the tool profits to be made known, and let the free market of IBO’s decide whether they want to run primarily a tool business or primarily a Quixtar product/services business.
I’ll keep claiming victory for Quixtar in Texas and everywhere else the victories occur, it’s a change from a one-sided TRO to a slam dunk in all of the Orrinites’ faces, it’s deciding where the case should be heard, which is probably in Michigan, where the court has already ruled against TEAM when both sides were present. Quixtar has already won several victories, TEAM has lost any contest where both parties were present in court.
DLSChicago #209,
Which was upline, not downline?
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Tex #210
“mis-stacked them” ? now who’s spouting excuses?
may be just me, but I don’t think I can be “mis-stacked”…think I would have to agree to being moved and I’m bettin’ your downline was wa-a-a-a-a-a-y in agreement…know if you’d been my upline, I would have been
appreciate your clueing us in to your experiences with Team. the more info you give about yourself & what happened to you, the more sour grapes we are seeing. you’re fond of saying “get a clue”. we are getting plenty of clues about you.
the thing here is this. if you really hoped to warn any new people off this business ( tools, of course, cause that’s your bandstand ), they might be more likely to listen if they didn’t see you as someone who failed and has taken to spewing hatred for those he blames…in the guise of protecting others. YOU get a clue, Tex….we’re all adults…we don’t need protecting.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:22 pm
Ok . . . so I’m curious now too. Can a person change LOS without permission from their sponsor?? Can anyone (Tex or otherwise) verify that?
Also — Tex (yes, I’m being nosey - I won’t be offended if you don’t respond) - you mentioned that your active downline left b/c your “upline mis-stacked them.” Judging from your posts, I’m guessing you do not engage in stacking, but were you in a group that did??
And, for anyone who feels that their upline abandoned them if / when they went off a BSM system — first, I think that is an inappropriate action of that upline and second, hopefully you can find someone else in your upline LOS who is willing to spend the time to mentor and help you.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:23 pm
Jerad Smith #221
Please dont degrade 5 year olds like that. They have more sense than Tex.
October 3rd, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Jerad #211,
Huh? Which points? Did you ever have one? Did it get away?
dannie #213,
“mis-stacked them”? now who’s spouting excuses? ———-Not me, just telling the facts.
May be just you, but you don’t think you can be “mis-stacked”? ———— You need to ask Quixtar about that vis-a-vis (there’s my darn French coming out again, sorry “amazed”) Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward. A more accurate, though not “according to the Queen’s English” (now I’m an Englishman, travel all over Europe, “amazed”) would be mis-restacked.
Think you would have to agree to being moved and you’re bettin’ my downline was wa-a-a-a-a-a-y in agreement? Perhaps so, they were as brainwashed as you are.
Know if I’d been your upline, you would have been (in agreement)? See above.
appreciate me clueing you in to my experiences with Team? That “experience” was BT (before TEAM).
The more info I give about myself & what happened to me, the more sour grapes you are seeing? Figures.
I’m fond of saying “get a clue”? When it applies, you betcha.
I am getting plenty of clues about you as well. As in cluelessness. Aclueistic. The anti-clue.
The thing here is this. I don’t need to hope, I’ve already influenced many to be careful around the tool scam. I haven’t failed, nor have I “spewed hatred”. But I do blame those who are the lying cowardly tool profiteers, with the specific intent of protecting others, as millions of adults have been ripped off over the years.
October 3rd, 2007 at 9:39 pm
NL #214,
Can a person change LOS without permission from their sponsor?? Can anyone (Tex or otherwise) verify that? I can. Any IBO who sits out 6 months can change their line of sponsorship, no reason has to be provided.
Also — Tex (yes, I’m being nosey - I won’t be offended if you don’t respond) - you mentioned that your active downline left b/c your “upline mis-stacked them.” Judging from your posts, I’m guessing you do not engage in stacking, but were you in a group that did?? ——— No, I think my downline was encouraged to be placed above me in the line of sponsorship, because I was a “bad influence” (anti-tool scam) on them and potentially anyone who joined their group. The strategy was to isolate and ignore. Plus try to steal downline’s retail volume.
And, for anyone who feels that their upline abandoned them if / when they went off a BSM system — first, I think that is an inappropriate action of that upline and second, hopefully you can find someone else in your upline LOS who is willing to spend the time to mentor and help you. ——— That would take me up to Dexter himself, the originator of the tool scam.
Thunderstruck #215,
You can do better than that. Come on, think about it for a minute or two.
October 3rd, 2007 at 10:26 pm
I cannot believe people are still sipping the purple Kool-aid and defending Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady. The scam is over with. Quixtar called their bluff, and they lost. I was in the TEAM for over a year. I always had reservations, but kept on going to meetings and seminars. Spent way to much money, on what Orrin used to call, the greatest business there ever was. Now he calls it an “illegal pyramid”. People, wake up and get out of the fog. Orrin got his millions from conning stupid people like you and me. All this time he was lying to us. Face it, its over with and none to soon. Move on with your life and get over it. After you get away from it, you will realize how dumb you were. Lick your wounds and move on, you won’t be sorry.
October 3rd, 2007 at 11:15 pm
darrin #218,
Good post, we need more people like you posting here.
Con men can con smart and stupid people. I have seen many smart and not so smart people get conned by these schleistmeisters.
October 4th, 2007 at 10:40 am
darrin #218
That’s interesting how you mention Orrin “used to call,the greatest business there ever was. Now he calls it an “illegal pyramid”". I take you mean he called “Quixtar” the greatest business. Funny, all these bloggers keep claiming we were hiding Quixtar from prospects. Which is it? Were we hiding or boasting? Lying and spinning have two inherent problems, first you have to come up with a good story, then you have to have a great memory. Try to emember that. BTW, you were with TEAM “over a year” and, I take it from your tone you didn’t make alot of money. Trust me, you didn’t do the work, you didn’t learn how to deal with people (your post proves that), and I really hope to don’t think you can make it with your attitude in anything else you do in life. But if you change you can, anybody can make it if you apply yourself. I wish you the best.
October 4th, 2007 at 10:42 am
Tex #217
Go to the corner and sit until you decide to be a good boy.
October 4th, 2007 at 11:07 am
Jake #179
I have three sets of information, one is the information TEAM posters have been posting on the FreeTheIBO.com, and another is the termination letter Q gave to Orrin and Woodward, which was also posted on the FreeTheIBO.com site, and lastly the complaints all over the net, of people that have been in TEAM, and the various LOA’s associated with it.
You will find that the TEAM members on FreeTheIBO.com freely admit that Quixtar is not mentioned in “their” meetings. Which is one of the major complaints about the way TEAM has been conducting their business: Misrepresenting the opportunity. Never telling people they are actually signing a contract with Q, or telling them as late as possible.
Browsing around the net, you will see that most of the problems/lawsuits/bad press revolves around downline from Yager, Dexter and Britt. Things have changed, and people have re-aligned, but as regular as clockwork, new problems crop up. Haugen lost a huge lawsuit against P&G for false rumours he spread, he sued Larssen, and he is now sueing Q. These are just some of the examples, there is a lot more on the net, you just need to get rid of the chaff.
There are several other, *much* larger BSG’s, of which you hardly ever hear any complaints on the net.
So I am not just repeating what I have heard, I have carefully reviewed the information, filtered it through my own experience with both Amway and my Business Support Group, and come to a conclusion.
I invite you to peruse FreeTheIBO.com for a couple of hours, and do the same with a pro-Q/A site like TheTruthAboutAMWAY. It is immediately clear who are worthy of being followed, and who are not.
October 4th, 2007 at 11:09 am
#220 thunderstruck, Your eyes are completely fogged over. I deal with people every day in sales and I am selfemployed. I can assure you I have been very successfull dealing with people. In the real world of sales, you won’t go far lying to people. Yes I did the work, Yes I was on system. I tried to justify conning people,I could not do it. I know you have never showed a profit in this business. Deny it and keep fooling yourself.
October 4th, 2007 at 11:22 am
Thunderstruck said:”Funny, all these bloggers keep claiming we were hiding Quixtar from prospects.”
Actually, “all these bloggers” include the TEAM supporters at FreeTheIBO.com, where they are stating that seeing Q wasn’t mentioned at their meetings, Q now can’t ban them from holding their meetings!
Talked about warped arguments.
October 4th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
darrin #223
How would you know if I made any money or not? Actually, I have made considerable profit with TEAM.
You are correct regarding Lies and not going far…noticed you quit after only one year. Maybe you were lying to people. You actually admit you thought you were conning people and state you tried to justify it. That shows you thought what you were doing was wrong yet you continued. The point isn’t whether what we do is right or wrong, you BELIEVED it was wrong, but did for a year, this proves your lack of character and integrity, which is why you failed. Thank you for the insight.
Tex,done talking to you, my dog understands the business better than you.
October 4th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Thunderstruck #220,
That’s the problem. Orrin (and many others inside and outside of TEAM) would say, “This is the greatest business in the world”, and most people thought he MEANT A/Q, but he was ACTUALLY referring to the tool scam.
He (and others) would mislead people into thinking most of his financial success came from A/Q, when in reality, most of it was coming from the tool profits, which by contract were required to be kept secret. That’s the tool scam in a nutshell.
Thunderstruck #221,
Not much better, try again.
Piet #222,
Which systems do you consider to be “good” systems?
darrin #223,
I agree with you. I am also involved in a business, dealing with customers, etc.
Piet #224,
Warped indeed. A very accurate word to use.
October 4th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
Thunderstruck #225,
If darrin thought he was lying and conning people, perhaps he stuck around for a year to try to figure out why he had these feelings. Just like Orrin stuck around the illegal pyramid he thought had developed and tried to get changes made. I see very little difference here, except darrin wasn’t running a secret and MASSIVELY profitable tool scam on the side.
I’m glad you’re done talking to me.
I asked my dog what she thinks of the tool scam, and she licked herself. Yes, down there.
October 4th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Tex:
Who’s contract keeps tool profits a secret?
October 4th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
thunderstruck 225, Man you are too far gone, I feel sorry for you.
October 4th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Piet 222.
I understand now!!! Because somebody blogged or posted it on the internet it must be the truth!!! Thanks for clearing that up for me. BTW, I believe that Orrin and Woodward are the same person. Also I believe that Yager and Dexter are the same person.
October 4th, 2007 at 10:11 pm
darrin #229
Geez, don’t have a real comback huh? Didn’t think so, it’s so funny when you guys accuse people of things and can’t back them up, then get caught in your own web. You definantly are Q material, you fit like a glove. Enjoy.
October 4th, 2007 at 11:31 pm
Thunderstruck #228,
The TEAM tool contract kept it secret.
Folks have denied the non-compete part, NOBODY has denied the “keep secret” clause.
Jake #230,
Orrin and Woodward/Yager and Dexter are the same person, but you have to have a split personality to scam people and live with yourself.
Thunderstruck #231,
At least darrin has some knowledge, haven’t you read the TEAM tool contract yet?
October 5th, 2007 at 7:36 am
Jake #230: Now that is a typical TEAM argument, all over the place, except on the facts that matter.
You might have missed the following part of my post:
“So I am not just repeating what I have heard, I have carefully reviewed the information, filtered it through my own experience with both Amway and my Business Support Group, and come to a conclusion.”
October 5th, 2007 at 10:27 am
Piet #233
The FACT is, you said “But then they have disregarded other people and their interests all along in the way they have built their business”. Sounds like a disparaging remark towards TEAM to me. You don’t have to be a part of TEAM to not agree with the changes Q/A’s making or have recently made. I wasn’t a part of TEAMs LOS, but I resigned because of the same principles. Thanks for associating me with TEAM, much better than Q/A. And about that crosslining rule???
Oh yea, tell Tex I’m not talking to him. : )
October 5th, 2007 at 10:54 am
Piet
Sorry about my manners. I forgot to say PLEASE.
Please tell Tex…
October 5th, 2007 at 11:35 am
Jake #220,
To follow up on Piet, some of the most damning statements against TEAM have come from TEAM members themselves. Is this another part of the TEAM “strategy to victory”?
October 5th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Tex #232
You don’t mean the fake one that is part of the lawsuit do you, we all know that is NOT our tool contract. In fact I was at a function in early spring where the tool profits were displayed for all to see.
Tex #227
Dude, your a wacko. Your dog comment is over the line. I am reading a book from our great system that has a paragraph I thought describes you perfectly. I know, were just robots blindly following Orrin and don’t think for ourselves but anyway…..
THEY ADVISE OTHERS IN THEIR TRAVELS
“Also we have those people who don’t want to take the trip, but they pose as experts criticizing the travel of others. They are like the man who didn’t kiss his wife for 30 years and finally shot the guy you did. They don’t want to take the trip and they don’t want anyone else to take the trip either.”- Success with People by Cavett Robert
October 5th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Tex #236
If I was talking to you : ), I would ask you how does anybody know for sure if these were really TEAM members making the statements or people posing as Team members? (Outside of the court documents of course, if that’s what you are referring to). But with their “split personalities” maybe they were trying to make people think they were not members that were posing as members but really were members?!?!?
October 5th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
jake #234/5,
Don’t worry, you’re not worth talking to anyway.
Thunderstruck #237,
What lawsuit? It was dismissed…WITH PREJUDICE. If the tool profits were laid out for all to see, do tell.
Dude, you brought up the dog, I just told you what dogs do.
Yeah, you’re a “trip” alright. Now Orrin has a one-way trip to the arbitration abyss. Now there’s a trip I wouldn’t want to take, not even my worst enemies….except perhaps one, the name begins with an “O” and ends with an “N”, with an “RRI” in the middle. Go TEAM, just GO to arbitration.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
jake #238,
Couldn’t stand the pressure to not talk to me, could you? How long did it take?
You lasted from 10:54 am to 1:34 pm, a thundering 2 1/2 hours.
Now there’s some discipline that Orrin can count on from his TEAM “army”. I can see it now, Orrin casting his gaze over the arbitration panel, with his supporters right behind him, supporting him all the way. He glances back….where did they go, they were here 2 1/2 hours ago?
Technically, you could be right on whether these folks are really with TEAM, but many of them were so fervent in their support of Orrin over the course of many days and posts, it is highly unlikely. It’s all a conspiracy I say, it’s all a conspiracy. And Thunderstruck is calling ME the wacko?
October 5th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
Tex,
You overstate the importance of the lawsuit to TEAM. Yes, it is important to you to not have Quixtar declared a pyramid. But, the “TEAM army” isn’t going anywhere but forward. It will just have to wait a bit.
October 5th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
whatever #241,
We’ll see if Orrin agrees with you after the arbitration process takes him out to the woodshed.
I think Orrin will regret the lawsuit almost as much as he will regret the tool scam he was in charge of, if his conscience ever kicks in.
October 5th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
Tex #239
Relax, you seem a little uptight, it was a joke.
First I wasn’t worth talking to and then you write several sentences. You flip flopped in 7 minutes.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:28 am
Tex,
My guess is that Orrin could wallpaper his house with the notes and letters he has received from those thanking him for his part in improving their lives. I bet it is his vision of what is possible that keeps him awake at night more than any issues with his conscience.
However, the point you overlook is that TEAM is not just Orrin Woodward. He is just one of MANY respected leaders in the TEAM organization. Every time you talk about the “TEAM army” you speak of something you know nothing about. When Orrin “glances back” to see where his supporters are, trust me, they will still be there. Not that there won’t be some that leave…but that will be a minority.
October 6th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
jake #243,
You almost got it right, you are the joke.
Me uptight, after the crushing TEAM got yesterday and the day prior in the courts?
Looks to me you’re the uptight one, or desperate, or both.
That comment needed to be responded to, other less informed readers may have taken it seriously.
whatever #244,
My guess is that Orrin will need to wallpaper his house (or his one-room apartment) with the notes and letters he has received from those thanking him for his part in improving their lives, when he comes back out of the arbitration abyss. On the other hand, most of those folks may ask for their letters back.
In this event, he can use the lawsuit paperwork. I bet it is his vision of what is possible that keeps him awake at night more than any issues with his conscience, for instance, will it be possible for me to ever again own a car, a house, or buy a non-soup kitchen meal?
However, the point you overlook is that TEAM is not just Orrin Woodward, but it soon will be. He is just one of MANY respected leaders in the TEAM organization, but the others are dropping like flies. Every time you talk about the “TEAM army” you speak of something you know nothing about, except I have seen them in action. When Orrin “glances back” to see where his supporters are, trust me, they will still be there, just way, way far away. Not that there won’t be some that stay, but that will be a tiny minority.
Why don’t you just go away, it’s starting to get boring rubbing your nose in the dirt?
October 7th, 2007 at 12:29 am
Tex,
You are clueless. Time will reveal this fact.
October 7th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Tex
There has never been an organization like the team! They developed their business on loyalty and leadership! The people are still behind Orrin…..when he looks back over his shoulder he high fives the guys standing right behind him! System counts are climbing, people are excited, and the leadership development team is exploding! Obviously, you’re scared of their success and are self deceived in your assessment… Its Ok, I’m sure once you start spouting the Amway name to prospects you too will be screaming “Orrin help me!!!!”
October 8th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
whatever #246,
Time has already revealed you are clueless. The more time passes, the more clueless you will be shown to be.
Quixkicked #247,
Correction: There has never been an organization like the TEAM used to be. That’s for sure, but there are many more similarities between TEAM and the other tool scams than differences.
The others based their systems on loyalty and leadership as well, loyalty to the tool scam and leadership for the tool scam. He high fives both of them?
System counts may be climbing, just wait until reality sets in, and Orrin can’t hide behind the cloak of the Quixtar business for cover.
Yeah, I’m scared. I am so scared of TEAM, losers of EVERY real court case so far. It’s looking good, guys, ONE MILLION (dollars in legal fees) AND BEYOND!!!
I’m already talking about Orrin, and prospects will find out about him as well.
I’ll be sure of that.
But it won’t be for help.
October 8th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Tex,
I guess you still haven’t decided to go outside and show the plan yet? Maybe someday… or not.
There are a lot more of us that will be sure people know of Orrin than you. Haven’t you noticed that you are one of only a few lone voices with anything negative to say about the guy? Even if you type it 1,000,000 times…it is still just you. Meanwhile, there will be many many people supporting him. You are outnumbered, you will always be outnumbered, and you can’t do anything to change it. Do you know why? Because all you are is a guy at a computer with an opinion of a guy you don’t even know. Meanwhile, there are TONS of people that know Orrin either personally or by association, and their opinion is simply more credible than yours.
I agree that you have no reason to fear TEAM, but you are extremely out of touch or off base if you think TEAM is falling apart. You make blanket assertions based on nothing but speculation and guesswork. I can tell you from personal experience that TEAM is alive and well, and is certainly not falling apart. Maybe your opinion is distorted because you seem think TEAM and Orrin are interchangeable names. Orrin is a single man. TEAM is MUCH more than that. Both will ultimately be just fine.
You probably strongly disagree with everything I have said. Thats ok. You are entitled to your opinion. But, there are thousands upon thousands that would strongly agree with me. You are still just one voice. Have a nice day.
October 9th, 2007 at 10:45 am
whatever #249,
I guess you still haven’t decided to go outside and throw yourself in front of a fast moving vehicle? Maybe someday… or not.
There are a lot more of us that will be sure people know of Orrin than you. —- You will tell the lies, we will tell them the facts.
Haven’t you noticed that you are one of only a few lone voices with anything to say about Orrin that is positive AND true? Even if I type it 1,000,000 times…it is still just all over the internet. Meanwhile, there will be many many people supporting him, and getting scammed. You are outnumbered, you will always be outnumbered, and you can’t do anything to change it. Do you know why? Because all you are is a guy at a computer with a false opinion of a guy you don’t even know. Meanwhile, there are TONS of people that know Orrin either personally or by association, and their opinion is simply more credible than yours.
I disagree that you have no reason to fear A/Q, but you are extremely out of touch or off base if you think A/Q is falling apart. I make blanket assertions based on nothing but facts and analysis. I can tell you from personal experience that TEAM is dying and near death, and is certainly falling apart. Maybe your opinion is distorted because you seem think TEAM and Orrin are moral or ethical. Orrin is a single man. TEAM is MUCH more than that. Both will ultimately be buried by the arbitration proceedings.
You probably strongly disagree with everything I have said. Thats ok. You are entitled to your opinion. But, there are thousands upon thousands that would strongly agree with me. You are still just one voice without the facts. Have a nice day.
October 9th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Tex,
Tex,
I guess you still haven’t decided to go outside and show the plan yet? Maybe someday… or not.
There are a lot more of us that will be sure people know of Orrin than you. Haven’t you noticed that you are one of only a few lone voices with anything negative to say about the guy? Even if you type it 1,000,000 times…it is still just you. Meanwhile, there will be many many people supporting him. You are outnumbered, you will always be outnumbered, and you can’t do anything to change it. Do you know why? Because all you are is a guy at a computer with an opinion of a guy you don’t even know. Meanwhile, there are TONS of people that know Orrin either personally or by association, and their opinion is simply more credible than yours.
I agree that you have no reason to fear TEAM, but you are extremely out of touch or off base if you think TEAM is falling apart. You make blanket assertions based on nothing but speculation and guesswork. I can tell you from personal experience that TEAM is alive and well, and is certainly not falling apart. Maybe your opinion is distorted because you seem think TEAM and Orrin are interchangeable names. Orrin is a single man. TEAM is MUCH more than that. Both will ultimately be just fine.
You probably strongly disagree with everything I have said. Thats ok. You are entitled to your opinion. But, there are thousands upon thousands that would strongly agree with me. You are still just one voice. Have a nice day.
October 9th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Tex,
I know it must be difficult for you to keep up with all your blogging duties, but the cutting and pasting in other peoples’ posts is pathetic. You seem to think that saying something all over the internet, in and of itself, accomplishes something. You forget the importance of credibility. The way you present yourself, you have none.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
whatever #251,
See #250. Stop repeating a message (#249) I’ve already responded to, the moderator may not like that behavior.
whatever #252,
No, it’s actally quite easy. Change a few words and turn it back on you. Real easy. Real easy. Real fast.
I am doing much more than only blogging. Just ask Orrin.
October 9th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
Tex,
All I was doing was changing back the few words in my post that you saw fit to change. I’m not sure the moderator minds me correcting your butcher job of my own post.
I realize it is easy to change a few words in a post. In your case it is also quite childish and predictable. I guess that is what you resort to when you don’t have actual substance to offer. You talk of all the wonderful facts you have, but yet, where are they?
You assert that TEAM is “falling apart”…. nothing but pure speculation (and wishful thinking) on your part.
I assert that TEAM is doing just fine, and I speak from personal experience, having attended functions and witnessed the continuing strength of the organization.
Please offer up whatever concrete evidence you have that TEAM is falling apart. And save the comments about Don and Randy dropping from the suit. They are still very committed to TEAM. Again, not based upon speculation, but on the word of those that actually know them and talk to them.
Since there is no real evidence to back your assertion, I’m sure you will have some personal attack you can throw my way, or maybe just do a little “cut and paste” on my words.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
Hey everyone for about a week now I have just been scrolling past TEX’S blogs. You know not reading his blogs has been so refreshing, I actually can enjoy reading the other blogs. I don’t waste my time reading trash and that is all that TEX writes.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
Hi SAK
I like your attitude. I do not like trash. I know that this site contains a lot of trash from both sides. Team and Q/A loyal people. How about talking about something that every remaining IBO will have to face.
IS Q/A selling products - products not moved or sold by an IBO?
Do they make products for other people? (They are a manufacture.)
Did they tell you that you have an excusive on the products?
Are you their excusive sales force?
Will Q/A stay dependent on a sales force that they can not control?
PS Does Q/A have a retail store?
October 9th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
whatever #254,
It didn’t make sense the first time you posted, why do it again?
You talk of all the wonderful facts you have, but yet, where are they? —- Seek, and ye shall find. The internet is a big place, but if you’re not curious, it doesn’t matter.
You assert that TEAM is “falling apart”…. nothing but pure speculation (and wishful thinking) on your part. —- I know more than you think I do, I’m still an IBO with access to corporate contacts, remember? The IBO number opens doors, especially if you’re supportive of what they’re doing. I’m sure they have received more than enough “negative” from the Orrinites over the past couple of months.
I assert that TEAM is doing just fine, and I speak from personal experience, having attended functions and witnessed the continuing strength of the organization. —- You keep thinking positive, that is what I want you to think.
Please offer up whatever concrete evidence you have that TEAM is falling apart. And save the comments about Don and Randy dropping from the suit. They are still very committed to TEAM. Again, not based upon speculation, but on the word of those that actually know them and talk to them. —- Don and Randy are a couple of lying cowardly “kingpins”. If they are with TEAM, that’s the best news I’ve heard. TEAM deserves them. I don’t give out my sources, you just sit there and squirm.
Since there is no real evidence to back your assertion, I’m sure you will have some personal attack you can throw my way, or maybe just do a little “cut and paste” on my words. —- No, I think that’s enough for now.
October 9th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
SAK #255,
How does it feel to be wrong AND ignorant?
Pa #256,
IS Q/A selling products - products not moved or sold by an IBO? No.
Do they make products for other people? (They are a manufacture.) Yes.
Did they tell you that you have an excusive on the products? Yes.
Are you their excusive sales force? Yes.
Will Q/A stay dependent on a sales force that they can not control? No, that’s why they are controlling them, the latest example being the Orrinites.
PS Does Q/A have a retail store? Not in the U.S.
Got any real questions?
October 10th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Quixkicked #247
Your comments are strangely out of kilter with what TEAM’s COO Thomas Maguire had to say in his Texas affidavit - Teams’ business declined by 69% in the first 4 weeks after Orrin et al launched their lawsuit in California.
Somebody is lying.
http://media.alticorblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/collin_tx_exhibit_a_maguire_affidavit.pdf
October 10th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Tex,
As someone known to correct others regarding spelling, you might want to check yourself.
I note that in all your dribble, you fail to answer the one direct question asked. Please offer up whatever concrete evidence you have that TEAM is falling apart. I’ve told you that my personal experience shows otherwise. You have said nothing.
Also, I will keep thinking positive, thanks. Trust me, regardless of what your “sources” may be telling you, I’m confident of what the future holds.
October 10th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Piet #259,
I think you just kicked Quixkicked right in the “Maguires”. He’ll be singing soprano from here on out.
whatever #260,
See #259. I think he has a little more visibility and a lot more to lose (like committing perjury) than you. You and Quixkicked sing as a TEAM?
October 11th, 2007 at 8:10 am
Tex,
I have no reason to doubt that there has been a temporary decline in revenue for TEAM. That would only be natural under the circumstances. This is where you show your ignorance of what TEAM is, because you focus ONLY on the dollars. TEAM is about much more than money my friend. You will never understand it. Those of us that understand what it means to develop leadership and personal accountability know that money is only part of what makes a man wealthy.
What you see as “falling apart”, I see as a minor set back in only one aspect of what TEAM is about. Join me in Kentucky next weekend, and maybe you’ll learn something…
October 11th, 2007 at 11:50 am
whatever #262,
I have no issue with the content of what TEAM teaches, although it is far from unique from the other tool systems. However, to lie about the profit resulting from it is THE issue.
I won’t be in KY, but that doesn’t mean other spies won’t be.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Tex,
I am quite sure you are correct that there will be “spies” in KY. That is fine, since there is really nothing to hide.
I obviously can’t speak for everyone, since TEAM is such a large group, but as for me, I was never lied to about anything. I was, however, routinely frustrated by the product prices in the Quixtar business. So for me, that has always been THE issue. As I’ve said before though, I have no ill will toward those that continue to believe in the Quixtar/Amway opportunity. The only reason I even bother to blog here has nothing to do with a negative campaign against Quixtar/Amway. I just can’t stand by and listen to TEAM bashing when my experience with TEAM has been nothing but positive.
October 11th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
whatever #264,
So, if you were never lied to, what do you know about the magnitude of the tool profits?
Do you realize that important information being hidden, especially from a “teammate” and “business partner”, is lying?
October 12th, 2007 at 11:01 am
Tex,
Do you realize that one’s opinion as to what constitutes “important information” can vary? When I buy a bottle of dish soap, I’m more concerned with whether I feel the price paid is fair for what I am getting than how much profit the store is making that month.
I am aware that there are substantial profits made by some, but I don’t really care because I am very satisfied with what I get for the cost to me. Apparently, so are many others.
October 12th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
whatever #266,
Besides not answering the questions, do you realize if “many” are satisfied, that many many many many others are not? How does that make your “many” look in comparison?
Answer (since you don’t like answering): NOT MANY.
1. Over 2/3 of IBO’s drop out in their first year, and a similar attrition rate for the following few years leaves about 5% left after 5 years. That includes TEAM, who does better in their first year, but catches up and surpasses the dropout rate of the “width groups” in year 2, according to my Q sales manager.
2. Don Wilson stated in a court document, subject to perjury if he is lying, he went from 60,000 to 10,000 at seminars over the past few years.
3. The North American market has been flat for about a dozen years, according to Doug DeVos. Yes, THAT Doug DeVos.
4. The only guy who had significant growth had to cheat to get it. That would be Orrin and his Orrinites.
Do you STILL think the “many” who think it is worth it, are worth the many many many many others who obviously DON’T?
This isn’t a bottle of dish soap opinion, it is hard numbers. Facts.
I care because I’m a business owner, and I want to know what my so called “business partners” and “teammates” are up to, which is quite different than your inadequate retail store soap analogy.
I suggest you use some of that soap to clean your glasses, because they’re not rose colored, they are filthy with the lies of the tool scam.
October 12th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
tex 245
I haven’t been here for awhile, just looking to see what witty reply you left for me, but instead you result to name calling. I don’t believe you received the same from me.
Have a great day!!!
October 12th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
Tex,
Thank you for illustrating the power of TEAM’s leadership training. Your statistics clearly illustrate that the Quixtar/Amway business model simply doesn’t work in the increasingly competitive sales environment of North America.
Those affiliated with TEAM apparently had the staying power to stick with it longer than those that weren’t. But, even the excellent training and personal growth offered by TEAM couldn’t help most people overcome the hurdles created by the product pricing. Fortunately, they can at least apply the principles learned in all other aspects of their lives.
October 13th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
jake #268,
Calling someone “uptight” is close enough to name-calling for me. Especially right after they get their heads handed to them on a California platter. What a joke, and not the funny kind.
whatever #269,
I demonstrated that Orrin and Co. are a bunch of lying cowards, just like most of the rest of the LOS/LOA’s.
You can thank me for illustrating the power of TEAM’s tool scam training. My statistics clearly illustrate that the Quixtar/Amway business model simply doesn’t work in the increasingly competitive sales environment with tool scammers present.
Those affiliated with TEAM apparently had the staying power to stick with the scam longer than those that weren’t. But, even the excellent training and personal growth offered by TEAM couldn’t help most people overcome the hurdles created by the scam itself. Fortunately, they can at least apply the principles learned in all other aspects of their lives.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Tex,
I can always tell when you don’t have anything really meaningful to say. You always resort to your childish “cutting and pasting”.
Your obsession with the idea of the “tool scam” blinds you to the fact that the Q/A business model doesn’t work in North America, with or without tools. Those using tool systems have tried to make the most of a broken business model. Period.
October 15th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
whatever #271,
You can always tell when I don’t have time to create a new post to answer your garbage. I always resort to my time efficient “cutting and pasting”.
My “obsession” with the idea of the “tool scam” blinds you to the fact that it is the reason the Q/A business model doesn’t work in North America. Those using tool scam systems have tried to make the most of an uninformed group of IBO’s. Period.
October 15th, 2007 at 6:04 pm
Tex,
You’re argument might have a little credibility if you actually spoke from experience. But you don’t, so it doesn’t.
Your obsession has just given you an excuse to become a professional blogger since you apparently haven’t had success as an A/Q business builder. From the comments you make, I can only assume that you have been an IBO for quite some time. As one of the “informed” IBOs, tell me again why you don’t have a large successful business yet?
October 16th, 2007 at 11:01 pm
whatever #273,
I have experience, and I have facts.
I don’t have a large successful business because the tool scam has ruined the otherwise great opportunity. But help is on the way, as it is in the UK, by today’s great news.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
Tex,
You better get to work thinking up your next excuse for lack of success. With TEAM gone, you will have to start holding yourself accountable. Then again, I’m sure you can cook up some new crusade to avoid having to accept responsibility for your lack of success.
October 17th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
whatever #275,
I won’t need an “excuse” after the tool scam is cleaned up.
Unlike Orrin, who could only “succeed” by scamming others.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:15 am
Tex,
There is no scam. There is a successful business with thousands of satisfied customers. Make sure you let us all know when you are actually planning to put your effort where your mouth is.
October 22nd, 2007 at 8:33 pm
whatever #277,
It doesn’t matter how many times you deny it, the facts speak for themselves. There is a tool scam, or the details of why there isn’t one would have been explained decades ago. For every “satisfied customer”, there are many more who are not satisfied, were scammed, and told it was their fault they never made it to triple dipple Crown of the World.
You’ll be one of the last things I will be thinking about as we implement our system. You’ll see the results, if you don’t have your head stuck in the sand.
October 22nd, 2007 at 11:12 pm
Tex,
Good luck with your non-profit tool business. Are you going to implement it before or after you actually decide to start building an Amway business?
October 29th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
whatever #279,
Most of the materials are already in place, so it will be ready to go when some other administrative issues are cleaned up and the tool scam no longer exists. Also, I prefer to think of it as a “low profit” as opposed to “non-profit” model, as I think some profit makes sense, just not the MA$$IVE levels that lead to very bad economic incentives, the hijacking of the business, and a bait-and-switch situation.