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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
September 12th, 2007 @ 4:07 pm ET…
Smog, then fresh air
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
We sat through the hearing in federal court in Los Angeles today. No rulings yet; we’ll keep you posted.
While we were there, though, we heard Orrin Woodward’s class-action lawyer, D.J. Poyfair, stand before the judge and declare that each and every Quixtar IBO was part of a “pyramid,” a “pyramid scheme,” and an “illegal business model,” operating “in all 50 states.” Orrin Woodward and his fellow plaintiffs sat behind Poyfair and nodded in approval.
Sure didn’t sound like anything we could easily work out over a cup of coffee anymore. Sure did sound like a group of people determined to destroy the Quixtar business opportunity.
The judge didn’t say much—he will likely issue something in writing later on this month—but he did say a couple things we wrote down.
The future of the Quixtar business, he said, may be “largely a question of market forces”—how well we are able to compete with other companies. Fair enough.
And he also cautioned, “Emotion does not work here. Reason, common sense, analysis, authority. That’s what works with me.”
More than fair enough.
We’ve said it since our first three legal victories in Michigan: we think the facts, the law and common sense are on our side.
We’ll wait to hear what the court rules. But the good fight carries on.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
September 12th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Did the judge give any specific date to expect his ruling (or was it just “expect something later in the month…”?
Thanks!
September 12th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Who is the “we” that sat through the hearing? We are required to put a name and email address, why is the coorporate blog poster not required to identify themselves? I am curious about who was present at this hearing, who was there from the founding families, IBOAI, NAFC? You have told us what TEAM attorneys have said, how about Quixtar attorneys or have they not been given their turn yet?
September 12th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
Can you explain what’s on one of the ‘other’ websites in regards to the court case today in California: “Quixtar given until September 19th to respond by legal brief”???
It’s good to hear that things like “reason, common sense, and analysis” are on the judge’s mind. That’s really reassuring, given the emotional nature of the plaintiffs’ arguments.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
“Sure didn’t sound like anything we could easily work out over a cup of coffee anymore.”
Pardon me, but yes it does. It’s called settle. Acquiesce to the simple request of letting any IBO leave the company to pursue other business structures that may be in competition with Quixtar. Give all IBO’s the 60-day wait out before they enter into competitive arrangements and let true free enterprise ensue. If the “transformation” is so great stop delaying the greatest competitor you have ever created against yourselves and let’s get it on - legally without courts and orders and TROs. Let’s fight. Every day you stall you only stoke the fires of competition for hundreds of thousands of IBO and FORMER IBOs everywhere to compete against you and win. Whether it’s 60 days or 6 months it really won’t matter about raiding because IBO’s everywhere will be knocking down the doors of other business opportunities where ‘freedom’ isn’t just a catchphrase it truly is a matter of integrity.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
A cup of coffee? Are you serious? This is what we tried to do in the first place and all we get is “you ambushed us”. I resigned from Quikscum yesterday and am ashamed to have anything to do with them in the first place. Was at a restaurant yesterday and met up with a group calling themselves ” A new business called Quixtar powered by Amway”. They wanted to sit down to explain what they do. I told them, in a professional tone ” I am currently in a Business and not allowed to join a competing business”, but I wished them luck and good fortune. After being asked what I was in and I said “Team” they gave me the look of death. Very professional. I am loyal to the ones who have my best interset at heart. Orrin and Chris.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
“we think the facts, the law and common sense are on our side.”
-We have yet to see any facts from you against the claims in this court case. If they’re there, they might start showing up now that the case is underway, but up until now it has been nothing but personal attacks.
-Seems like the common sense thing would’ve been to allow Team out of the non-compete instead of getting into this huge legal and PR battle, which frankly isn’t helping anyone right now. If the Quixtar opportunity is so good, you shouldn’t have to keep people in by contract…they should want to stay in.
-And as far as the law goes… In California, that non-compete amounts to almost nothing.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
I thought you (Q) had the last month to prepare your response? Now you have an extra week? Sounds like you haven’t done your homework. I think you have a real fight o your hands boys.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
“Sure didn’t sound like anything we could easily work out over a cup of coffee anymore.” Doesn’t sound like you were ever willing to work out over a cup of coffee in the first place. I refer to previous posts such as “Just Go, Team” and many others. The way I understand the facts, Quixtar better have some miracle data to dispute the obvious. Good luck!
September 12th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
THE MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION I HAVE FOUND
I am still in agreement with my immature metaphor about T vs Q
“Team blew a fart and blamed it on Quixtar before others could smell the stink!”
on my blog I am posting http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Compendium_of_Exhibits.pdf and telling people to please read pages 24-31, exhibit 1 and 2.
Even though this pdf was written by TEAM Plaintiffs, the 2 exhibits tell the story, and support Quixtars case.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Great post Alticor–nothing here to make anyone feel offended, just a concise update. The whole illegal pyramid argument is amazing–I’d like to say ludicrous, but I’m not into sparring with any disgruntled IBOs. It seems like most people blogging are pretty solid about where they stand. To me this fight is analogous to a civil war.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
Seems to me that you should have had that cup of coffee when it was offered to you, Q. You could have saved yourself and all of us a lot of grief. So sad.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
When will this California case be done? When is the ruling date and Court Decision?
If there is a final ruling that says Quixtar is a Legal business, and TEAM cannot break the non-compete, then what? Is TEAM going to keep filing lawsuits non-stop around the Country?
TEAM - define Victory and Defeat now Please.
by the way, TROs and Lawsuits are not the same. This California Lawsuit has 100X the impact of all the TROs combined.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
Yes, you had your chance for settling it over a cup of coffee. I guess you blew that…
September 12th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
“The future of the Quixtar business, he said, may be “largely a question of market forces”—how well we are able to compete with other companies. Fair enough.”
Moderator/Quixtar - what did the judge/you mean by this?
thank you,
JT
September 12th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
I understand this is Alticor’s website but give me a break.
“sound like a group of people determined to destroy the Quixtar business opportunity”
No, they just wanted to be released from a business that seems to be headed in a direction that is exceedingly different than what a lot of people got into.
QUESTION: When someone asks, “what do you do” how many of you ibo’s are going to respond with, “have you heard of Amway”?
If not, why not?
September 12th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
They tried for years to sit down with Quixtar and have a good conversation over a cup of coffee on how to build a better Quixtar business. The ball was in your court and you failed to deliver. Soon alot of Amway IBO’s will be playing for the another Team, because as the saying goes “If you can’t beat them - Join Them.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Let’s be honest here either way the ruling goes the image of quixtar/amway is taking a beating through all of this. I believe that overly priced products, poorly handled PR, and the inconsiderate way that some of the top producers in all of quixtar/amways history are being attacked BY THEIR OWN FORMER COMPANY is atrocious. I have to wonder what would stop them from treating us the same way in the future. In all fairness, if walmart or any other big name company treated me (or anyone else) this way i would for sure lose confidence in them and no longer represent their company. The same holds true for this company who clearly has little regard for some of the most respected names in this industry. I thought this was a billion dollar business…please handle yourself like one. Good luck in the future.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Vote what Outcome you expect at my blog, I will report the results.
If/When Quixtar wins (Declared again a Legal Business, TEAM can’t break non-compete rule they signed), they will have overcome the biggest major attack of their business, and will be stronger than ever.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Hard to believe Woodward and others, these self-described paragons of virtue, can move straight from making money at the top of an “illegal pyramid” to suing that same pyramid. Their strained explanations don’t even pass the laugh test.
It’s even harder to believe they’ve managed to convince so many IBOs to go along with them.
Sounds like there’s at least one fair judge left in California. Here’s hoping that facts and reason DO indeed prevail.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
Orin et al have sown the whirlwind…hope they have a secure storm shelter…Karma’s a bitch
September 12th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
the good fight ? you’re kidding ….right ? what’s good about this fight ? people on both sides of this issue are losing…losing faith, losing income, losing their patience …good fight , my eye !
the only thing that makes sense in any of this is what the judge said in this comment The future of the Quixtar business, he said, may be “largely a question of market forces”—how well we are able to compete with other companies.
cause we all know how well Q competes in the marketplace, don’t we ? at least in the marketplace of today’s economy…most real American people just trying to get by…having to raise families on incomes that necessitate both parents working. yep, those people are today’s market…and they speak the loudest with their dollars when they say ” $2 for an 8 oz energy drink..are you kidding me ? “
September 12th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
The beach has been taken.
Stand by for battle.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
- 3% of total sales from customers?
- selling products WAY above market value?
- only way for IBO’s to profit is recruiting others?
Putting emotion aside, common sense tells me when you must recruit others to make profit from products that are not retailable, that’s an illegal pyramid business model. It’s pretty much a picture perfect dictionary definition.
September 12th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
You guys are so full of crap.. the TEAM wanted to “work it all out over coffee” as you state but you were the ones who turned that down.
Your really concerned about the futures of the IBO community…
Is that why in some of your European markets you sell around your IBO force at retail?
Is that why Amway is starting to invest in retail established cosmetic companys?
So how many years do you guy go before you sell around whatever is left of your IBO forces after they brave the wave of AMWAY reborn?
Is that why you dont pay you upper bonuses (emerald / diamond) bonuses until 24 MONTHS after qualification has been earned?
Is that why in one court that shall remain nameless that one of your legal staff stated that Amway “OWNS” their downlines? Hmm.. thought that we were independant business owners?
Is this why now there are 95 pages of rules and regulations to what an IBO can and CANT do? I can understand regulating the rules based on a legal, moral and ethical standard.. but most of the people who become IBOs dont realize the handcuffs that they are putting on!
It is a sad state of affairs. This isnt the business I started in the early 90’s. And as the shroud of secrecy rises to what is actually going on it amazes me to just what happens behind the scenes.
Saddened? Angry? Feel cheated? Yeah.. I cant beleive that I dedicated so much time to a crowd of snakes who were only out for their own benefit. Amway wasnt founded on that prinicpal.
It is amazing to what a little money and power given to the wrong people can do.
Compassionate Capatalism my butt!
September 12th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Sure sounds like “being right” is more important than what is right. It’s OK to start your own new MLM or Networking Marketing opportunity but let’s do it the right way.
As an Amway Distributor and then a Quixtar IBO since 1978, I know what is right about our business model. It’s not about tools having given you influence over others. Or even an analysis of price and competition in a marketplace we’ve never targeted.
It’s about following the core rules which have always been in place. The foundational rules of our business model have not changed, despite the conduct of some who now find the very business they built to a size they feel warrants the leverage of waging a court battle, may express in both public and private forums.
In the heat of battle people often choose a position which is counter to everything they believed in while getting to their position of influence. What is right is to stick with the foundation principles. They really haven’t changed.
And, No, the beliefs of such people in their hearts really haven’t changed. Their goal and the tactics they choose to utilize “maybe” and that’s not right.
September 12th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
Work it out over a cup of coffee? That sounds about right! Where has the person who wrote this been the last two months? We’ve been past a cup o joe for awhile.
September 12th, 2007 at 7:30 pm
You’ve already lost, you just don’t know it yet.Letting it get this far,in this manner has already doomed you.
September 12th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
“Sure didn’t sound like anything we could easily work out over a cup of coffee anymore.”
Come on, no reason for junk talk. It has been obvious from past posts that doing that has not been your intention anyway.
This court is bad enough for all of us….. Besides dealing with both sides sly remarks to try to get to the truth of what is going on…
September 12th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Hmmm….
The future of Quixtar is a question of “market forces?”
I wonder what Quixtar will do when the “market force”, or better known as the community, moves on without them? I have a strong feeling after this weekend Quixtar will have to figure that question out.
September 12th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Alticor is still letting a 14 year old write the official blog?
September 12th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
What exactly is the good fight you refer to? It seems to me that if you are truly offering a free enterprise business, why not let people go if that is what they choose. I don’t see what amway has to gain by fighting this battle, it seems there is already mass exodus going on with resignations. If “IBOs” don’t want any part of amway or the business opportunity that you represent then why force them to stay against there will with clauses in the contract. I just can’t seem to wrap my mind around what exactly it is your trying to accomplish by fighting this battle. The only thing I can think of is that it is just a pride thing, it appears you don’t want TEAM ibos in your business anymore anyway so just let them go!
September 12th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
Just Go Team? Who threw the coffee in Team’s face to start with? Woodward obviously gave Quixtar time to keep all of us out of this mess, and Quixtar wouldn’t set down on Aug. 9th. Quixtar filed a Brief a week ago, why did they need more time to file a brief today?
If any of the things that Randy Haugen, Ron Simmons, Chuck G. are saying are true, Quixtar messed up. That being said, should Team have changed a couple of things, like not requiring BSM or products when signing up - yes. Were they willing to talk about changing this - yes.
Woodward’s affidavit does list several prices of items that are competitive per use. Unfortunately, if Quixtar wanted to set down and discuss this over coffee, it is a little late. I told you want to do a month ago..you ignored my suggestions. The whole bunch of IBO leaders have been telling Quixtar what needed to be fixed for years, particularly since June.
Alicor could tell the truth instead of spinning the news. Quixtar has lost lots of rulings the last couple of weeks.
You better figure out how to win this one or we are all toast.
September 12th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
This lawsuit is completely laughable. Just trot out a few stacks of real IBO customer orders from the past week. Case closed.
The notion that our products can’t be sold at retail is ludicrous. Throughout our upline Diamond’s organization there are countless examples of monthly retail circles that are upwards of 1000PV.
September 12th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Thanks for the well written post, Alticor. I’m glad to hear the judge is not swayed by emotion. Keep fighting the good fight!
September 12th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
In order to “work it out over a cup of coffee” wouldn’t both parties need to be present? Your management team couldn’t even find their way back to a meeting room last month and it was at YOUR place!
PLEASE cut the condescending banter - it does not play well in Peoria (or anywhere else than Ada …)
September 12th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
This is not the good fight my good coperation!!
This little complaint the WOODWARD Team has put on the table…WELL, it has teeth and we all know it does. I’m now pi*&^%$ off at this whole deal. All and this good fight stuff… Is our great company going to really shove this under the rug like a little pile of DUST? What if they find truth in our product being high priced? They will! It feel like a cover up starting to happen. What ever my great company……. I do think it is great or was great & can be again. But Not As AMWAY! I’m NON TEAM and that is this PLATINUMS position. Not all of us are on TEAM so if they have some real points and they DO. Let’s not fight the truth & distroy us all.
Let them all do what makes them happy and let the ones go go and the one’s stay stay!
GET IT!!!! THIS IS AMERICA.Not a control deal. This is about what is best for us IBO’s. Dirty secreat NOn-compete in our renewals? It sucks and it’s not fair. It only works well for us internally. Period. Did you all hear that internally the rule is fantastic. If we feel that we need to build a differant MLM and that is what we personaly think is best for our family that is what we should be able to do. & sc**&&^% U TEX and Jthompson whoever.
How dare you QUIXTAR think you can keep this group as if it is yours. You didn’t build them they did …Let them Go. That is the GOOD FIGHT. Even if it is tens of thousands Let them go. In Peace and save us all form this.
If you QUIXTAR don’t have a deal the people want then shame on you. GET BETTER.
Making a fair pricing for us IBO’s that is the GOOD FIGHT.
Do all of you really like this little Fight that is happening????
September 12th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
You people read anymore? It says Team is saying quixtar is an illegal pyramid, they are not just trying to get out of the non-compete anymore, their trying to bring quixtar down. If their just trying to get otta the non-compete, then why did they say the stuff about Quixtar being an illegal pyramid? Please do your research before you post.You know whats going to happen? Quixtar will win, the reaming people of team will be asorbed into quixtar, and by the time these lawsuits are done it will be well over 6 months, so Team will be able to start the new MLM. Then after I would estimate, 1-2 years, their new MLM will be gone, and orrin and his buddies will, retire on their millions, and all that followed them will be w/o a job.
September 12th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
Craig Eddy
I believe you are sadly mistaken. 99.99% of the pv in those 1000 pv circles are not from retail sales but are from self consumption alone, nice try though !!!
September 12th, 2007 at 10:34 pm
Just curious…whats the difference if people on the Team are allowed to leave now or in six months? Either way people are definitly going to leave after seeing how people are treated by a billion dollar company with a golden pacifier in its mouth. What is really won even if quixtar/amway wins this case? They still lost many major leading distributors and many many other up and coming distributors. Plus, the company has done a great job at tarnishing their own name once again. Who really gives a rip about the conflict of interest. (By the way I thought this was FREE ENTERPRISE) People have freedom of choice to pursue whatever interests they would like. ***Unless its a company who sends out child-like blogs because it just lost major market share and wants to cling to whatever morsels of business might remain. (hmmm…interesting)
September 12th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
This is the beginning of the fall for the two “GREAT” legendary leaders, Rich DeVos and Jay Van Andel. I sure hope that their families have a good retirement plan. Amway has, is and will be a foul word long after the corporation crumbles. Mr. DeVos and Mr. Van Andel only care about their families, NOT the families of all the IBO’s that they have impacted in a negative way over the last several months. As for the people that think Quixtar is the greatest business oportunity, I understand that The Mayo Clinic has a great Psychology department, maybe you should seek help with your issues of denial.
My children are having nightmares when they think of the new (same old Amway) name coming in 24 months.
Truly
Exceptional
And
More
September 12th, 2007 at 11:03 pm
Quixtar blogs,
Your communication is fine. I like you talking like a human being, not a robot.
This is an Alticor site. Q is not suppossed to be “nice” to a group of people that are dropping lawsuits on them like Kobe drops 15 foot jumpers. TEAM is trying to put a business with a 70 year amazing history out of business.
September 12th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
-Confidentiality Agreement posted on the LOS.
This sent me fumming. The IBO’s built the LOS in the field with there own time and money. I am speechless at the duplicity of Quixtar management. Team has a better model and system that allows a person to make decisions based on what best for them not for the corporation. It is the community that drives the growth and death of a business. Quixtar communitty has gotten smaller by one. TEAM has shown better results, they had growth in a hard enviroment. Quixtar’s results equal negativity loss of communtity and a system that will make it impossible for anyone to succed into a big business like the TEAM.
September 12th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
Just Go team Go.
September 12th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
Nope…coffee ain’t gonna help at this point. Quick note to Quixtar legal…THINK! Or atleast try to occasionally. You have thousands of IBO’s (most now FORMER IBO’s)…many with massive results…that are going to totally bury you guys out in the field. Do you think March 08′ is never going to arrive? That’s the end of the wait period fellas…You have lit the torch on a rocketship! 900 plus Platinums and above were able to get that done riding your Jollopy…What would happen if they had a REAL business?
September 12th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
Response to comment #33 (Craig Eddy)
Craig…I checked out your website…no mention of AMWAY or QUIXTAR. It appears that you may be “positioning” your business innapropriately. I will forward the link to Quixtar legal for ya…just to be on the safe side…
September 12th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
#33 - Craig,
Please tell us what upline Diamond you have that has 1000PV circles through out it. What products specifically are you all retailing at FULL suggested retail and not less than that. The Ribbon products are probably your only products you can retail to that degree. ALL other products are out of the question.
I know for a fact that my upline’s organization (not TEAM but very recently became affiliated with TEAM, we were under Yager’s InterNET Services tool system) promoted 300 PV circles. Some people pulled it off, most were Platinums and above. Very rarely did anyone under Platinum get recognized for 300 PV on a consistant basis. My wife & I got recognized a couple of times but I will admit 200-230PV was personal and the rest was sold below suggested retail. I would not be shocked if those Platinums+ that qualified were consuming the majority of the 300PV as they could afford to spend that monthly. My family loved the products and could do 300 PV personally BUT we can’t afford to spend that much money.
1000PV circle on a consistant basis is EXTREMELY rare with basic coreline products (Ribbon being an exception, some people have great businesses selling Ribbon to companies…everyone can’t duplicate this though).
Please enlighten us on your retailing ability Craig.
September 13th, 2007 at 12:08 am
That “market forces” thing is a real clue. Keep watching that. The plaintiffs are going to have to prove that the pricing kept them from earning their incomes. They will have to show that the soap, and other goods (Peter Island Suntan Lotion, et al) are so overpriced that no one would buy them. Good luck. Watch the “market forces”line.
As for the civil war idea in #10, this is more like a scorched earth scenario. Again, the plaintiffs have declared that I run an illegal business. I have already approached someone who has told me they would not talk to me because they read that I am in “a pyramid”. I consider that the plaintiffs have spead that slander. I believe that A/Q has the goods to show malice aforethought. (We walked in with a lawsuit in-hand. Don’t you know that shows “good faith?”)
If the plaintiffs don’t prevail ( the California court they are in is the US Federal District Court( if I understand the stuff from the freetheibo website) and not the state court. So, if the Federal Court rules to uphold the FTC ruling from 1979 (precedent does have standing), the plaintiffs will be then liable for all the slander and smears.
Burn them, Amway……… and their PR lackeys.
September 13th, 2007 at 12:47 am
I have read the sworn affidavits of the team guys and if their side of the story is true, their meeting was doomed before it started.
The team guys walked in with a list of demands for what they thought would be a favorable departure. Quixtar had a list of things that they felt the team guys must change or amend.
I believe that the statements in the affidavits are true. If they are; there is nothing in them that says the team guys were willing to negotiate other than a release on their terms.
It doesn’t surprise me that this happened. Did they walked in and say we don’t want to change anything and all we are willing to negotiate is a separation? From what I read, Quixtar wanted to negotiate terms on how to keep the team guys working with Quixtar. There were two different intentions by the parties and its not surprising that the meeting ended quickly.
It appears the team guys had the lawsuit in their pocket; just in case they didn’t get their way. They didn’t get their way and now we have a lawsuit that says this whole business model is an illegal pyramid?
This lawsuit is a stretch and I believe we are going to see a whole lot more on what was really going on behind the team curtain before this is over.
I’m not going to pass judgment on anyone but I believe that court cases are going to bring a lot of light to bear on what was really going on. I think this is going to be years not months before this is ends and the only ones who will win anything at all are the attorneys.
September 13th, 2007 at 1:26 am
“Doesn’t look like something we can easily work out over a cup of coffee anymore”…….Quixtar here’s your sign.
September 13th, 2007 at 1:52 am
#32 continued..Perhaps I should repeat what I suggested a month ago: Allow all IBOs, in an LOS to have the same choice that we had in 1999. Renew in the new direction Quixtar becoming Amway, or stay in the Quixtar that existed in June of this year. If the corporation really can solve the PR for the Amway name that they claim in US and Canada, IBOs will choose Amway, just like they choose Quixtar in 1999.
Quixtar can not inore the IBOAI like they have done since June and before. Jody Victor for decades has told any LOS that had him speak that the coporation could not change the rules without the IBOAI agreeing. It has been shown that that no longer applies. That has to be fixed.
The 3rd thing to do is allow all terminated IBOs, or those resigning since August 9th, to come back, same upline/downline, providing they drop any lawsuits. This would have to include allowing TEAM to be an approved BSM provider, along with allowing Team system. You need to toss the “staking” rule sent out in July and have Team change a couple of things, like not requiring BSM or products when signing up. They had already made sure that no one would be “stacked”. See TEAM sign up packet that was in use in July.
4th, Pricing needs to be worked on futher, and not just the token things. Nutilite did that with Daily vitamins. Quixtar needs to do that with everything, starting with the most popular items, including DoubleX, SA8, XS, etc…
5th, Simply Nutrilite can not be an open ordering website. They need an IBO number to order, or run them through the process of getting one just like Quixtar.com has for 8 years. I know you will asign one for Simply Nutrilite customers without an IBO, but the whole site, and all the posts from Alticor, lets the IBOs think you don’t need us anymore.
This fight should never have started. Mistakes were made of both sides, but Alticor has been so mean and prideful in their moves that they need to fix this now. You have one week. I, for one hope you don’t loose the LA lawsuit as Amway and Quixtar will either be finished in the US or the Court will require you to do what I have just posted just to survive.
Both sides have been acting Junior high. Perhaps if Alticor/Quixtar had not been acting like a bunch of bullies, Orin and Chris wouldn’t have acted like tatle-tale go to the press whiners. You really didn’t give them a choice. They hoped they had enough protection, you didn’t think they would do it, and they called your bluff. Can you say stupid?
That being said, the person that writes the press releases for Alticor, this one and the ones since Go Team Go, should have already been fired. Corporate Communications is a disgrace for all IBOs and employees.
September 13th, 2007 at 2:42 am
Richard
Clueless: One not having a clue !!!
September 13th, 2007 at 5:14 am
JT#9- I just read the documents that you claim to support Quixtar. Other than this being an after the fact termination substantiation document this proves nothing! As a matter of fact, it makes very few references to the Team! Much of that document consists of interactions that Quixtar ALLOWED IBO’s to do using Quixtars customer service! If they were illegal activities, or even rule violations, then why did Quixtar make those changes??? JT if your going to trumpet the cause of Quixtar at least use the right horn!
September 13th, 2007 at 5:17 am
Quixtar needs to settle this thing out of court fast! This is a huge black eye for every organization! Set them free and let the transformation begin!
September 13th, 2007 at 7:06 am
I suspect that the court may choose to limit this to a narrow ruling of contract law, in which Q/A has a huge advantage, rather than allowing the whole issue of prices, ? pyramid, etc. standing; in view of the fact that the FTC 1)has ruled, in 1979, and 2)is planning another ruling to clarify the regs.
If, however, they decide to consider all the stuff TEAM wants them to, I think A/Q still has a huge advantage and can easily defend. I’m actually stoked at the possibility that we’ll come out of this with a brand spanking shiny new affirmation by a federal court in California of all places that our business is legitimate. Think you could shout THAT from the rooftops?
September 13th, 2007 at 7:34 am
Richard, the Plaintiff’s aren’t claiming YOU are running an illegal business (unless of course you are Richard DeVos!).
They’re claiming Amway is an illegal pyramid and YOU are stuck in it. If you don’t think you are, good for you! Things must be going well with your QBOB pamphlet.
By the way, I haven’t heard how QBOB is doing out in the marketplace. To all those who love Amway and think they’re business is going to “explode” (a.k.a. implode) with the name change, how’s the response in the market? Getting a lot of people excited to become part of AMWAY?
Down the road you’ll be thanking Woodward’s and Brady’s for paving a new road!
September 13th, 2007 at 7:43 am
Richard # 36
“That “market forces” thing is a real clue. Keep watching that. The plaintiffs are going to have to prove that the pricing kept them from earning their incomes.”
I don’t think so, I think the plaintiffs just have to prove that this business is good even for the new person getting in. That the new person can get 10 RETAIL customers. And retail means you actually make dollars off of the product, which is extremely hard since they’re already sky high.
I’m even embarressed to charge the IBO price to my friends. I just tell them, hey, I know it’s high, but that’s my price and I’m not making anything on it.
September 13th, 2007 at 9:39 am
“Market Forces” = Compitition = How can you have a non compete agreement and have to deal with market forces. So watch that market forces line. I am glad I will never have to say ” well it is a sister company and we do have some of the same products as Amway ” When they ask “Is it amway?” You that stay now have to say yes (and goodbye) but I can say no and mean it “WE ARE TEAM”
September 13th, 2007 at 9:43 am
‘The future of the Quixtar business, he said, may be “largely a question of market forces”—how well we are able to compete with other companies. Fair enough.’
Competing with the name Quixtar may have been possible… but when things change back to Amway… watch the power of “name recognition”.
Let’s see… Satan, Hitler, Amway. Yes, I think most people would say they are familiar with those names.
Good luck Alticorp!
September 13th, 2007 at 9:56 am
Richard
Are you honestly saying this is the first time someone accused you of running a pyramid? Dude, you are daft!! My whole problem in my business building was when people asked if this was Amway, enough said.
September 13th, 2007 at 10:10 am
#6
“If the Quixtar opportunity is so good, you shouldn’t have to keep people in by contract…they should want to stay in.”
Enough said.
By the way, does the 13th amendment not mean anything anymore? What about the Emancipation Proclamation?
September 13th, 2007 at 10:13 am
P.S.
Good Riddance Amway. You’ll choke on your own name when it goes public.
September 13th, 2007 at 10:16 am
It’s funny you guys talk about the TEAM slandering but what about the threats made to all TEAM members if they didn’t quit TEAM then they would not have their IBO numbers anymore? Looks like TEAM didn’t need Quixtar anymore seeing as though so many resigned. I find it funny everything you guys complain about that the TEAM is doing, you are doing the exact same. Slandering and so on. Even post #20 there’s even some profound language. That’s REALLY professional (sarcastic). Seriously if Quixtar/Amway is going to be doing so great without TEAM, then why all this mess? It would’ve been so much easier if Quixtar/Amway just let TEAM go their seperate ways. It’s like a break-up. Both people just want to be happy. I believe Orrin and Chris are looking out for their people, and that’s why so many others followed. Look at all the resignations, why would people do that if they didn’t believe they were follow a TRUE leader?
September 13th, 2007 at 10:21 am
I read “exhibit 1″ - the conceptual proposal by TEAM.
If i was Q/A and i received that, i would be pissed! If you are not sharp enough to understand that the letter was blackmail, then you don’t have a clue.
TEAM followers think that TEAM is equal to Quixtar. TEAM does not own a mlm Corporation, they are distributors that thought more highly of themselves than reality.
TEAM
- the lowest customer sales
- the lowest income for platinums
- the most hiding of Quixtar name and misrepresentation of Quixtar relationship
- the most complaints to Quixtar
Winters Team went from about 7,000 in 2002 to over 17,000 in 2006 ….. without the “Team Approach”
September 13th, 2007 at 10:29 am
Hey Alticor fans - let’s hear some of your real life stories of showing the plan to people since the Sept. 1st change to include QBOB in your presentation. How have people been responding to your AMWAY presentation? Havin’ fun yet????
I haven’t heard anything from any of the pro-Amway people. I’m guessing most prospects run away so fast after hearing the word Amway, or these people haven’t successfully booked an appointment yet.
How exactly do you answer the question when someone says “Is this Amway”? Do you say, “well, uh, hmmm, well, kinda, sorta, but, but, but….. then you hear the dial tone on the other end????
September 13th, 2007 at 10:59 am
60 days or 6 months the out come will be the same… The Alticor/Quixtar/Amway Corporation(s) will crumble into history fast and furious. In history when someone was going to be executed they were always offered a blindfold, it is obvious that the legal team for Quixtar has already placed one on Mr. DeVos and Mr. Van Andel long ago. They (Mr. DeVos and Mr. Van Andel) should remove their blindfolds and see who really is destroying the corporation (it isn’t TEAM). Mr. DeVos and Mr. Van Andel, you know the old saying, “it isn’t over until the fat lady sings” well she is about to finish warming up and start singing the TEAM victory song!
Truly
Exceptional
And
More
September 13th, 2007 at 10:59 am
Check out Dilbert’s take on TEAM!
http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2007203690913.gif
September 13th, 2007 at 11:12 am
After four years of trying to build a business “powered by Quixtar”, I have officially resigned my Founder’s Platinum Quixtar/Amway business.
I will continue to subscribe to the Leadership Development materials that TEAM has to offer, it is after all their contribution to my life that has made me a better man, husband, father, business owner and minister- NOT PRODUCTS!
Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady and the other leaders on the TEAM have repeatedly proven, through ACTIONS, that they are men of integrity and worthy of being followed.
I can honestly say that I have made more money as a consultant, teacher, and minister applying the teachings of TEAM than I made as a Quixtar IBO. Leadership and franchise principals are transferable regardless of the opportunity.
God speed TEAM leadership!!!
September 13th, 2007 at 11:25 am
Why don’t you state what really happened? Quixtar wasn’t prepared yesterday PERIOD. Q lawyers said they wanted all the IBO’s to arbitrate… Judge said NO. And he gave your lawyers another week to prepare! Q doesn’t get it’s way this time! It’s a point for TEAM! This is going to court, and won’t be arbitrated! HUGE SCORE!!!!
“Sure did sound like a group of people determined to destroy the Quixtar business opportunity.” …. Well, actually, the group is the families! Their outrageous 35% profit margin is what’s destroying the business. So, there is some truth to this post. But the cup of coffee?? that’s just laughable!
September 13th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
@38 & 46 — I’m not mistaken. Artistry, XS, Nutrilite are all easy to retail. Combine them with Ditto Delivery, add a few new ditto customers each month (it takes work? Oh my!), piece of cake. Please don’t patronize me.
Particularly when you have support from world-class athletes. Have you seen today’s press release? (http://teamnutrilite.opportunityzone.com/2007/09/13/Asafa–New-Global-Press-Release.aspx)
@45 — I seriously doubt my site violates any rules. If it does, I’m happy to have it corrected once I’m notified by the *proper* authorities. Since I freely use it in all my comment postings at Opportunity Zone (I hate anonymity in business, don’t you?), I’m guessing at least one person at Alticor/Quixtar has taken a peek and I haven’t gotten a complaint yet.
@57 — Non-competes are so commonly used, that if you haven’t been a party to one previously I’d be really surprised. They’re used to protect a company’s investment in your relationship with them, as well as to protect the company against predatory practices from parties who leave under less-than-honorable circumstances.
September 13th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
#33 Craig Eddy.
I would be careful, I checked out your link “http://www.empactcommerce.com/” and your site has alot of good Quixtar/Amway products, but no mention of “Powered by Quixtar/Amway”. In fact, I see many references to “our Nutrilite” and “our Products”. You are doing nothing different from what TEAM has been accused of, hiding the fact that your business is powered by Quixtar.
Shame on you and watch out in the future. Q/A Rules auditors will be calling.
September 13th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
jt#9 maybe you could point out where on those pages it is supporing Quixtar…I think you are confused.
September 13th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
What does it mean when so many IBO’s from Emeralds to Double Diamonds say publicly that the Alticor/Amway/Quixtar business is no good and want out?
September 13th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
The latest news release from freetheibo propaganda site.
September 12, 2007
Pyramid Scheme Lawsuit Against Quixtar Will Continue
“Everyday in court is a big win for the IBOs,” said D.J. Poyfair, attorney
for Denver-based Shughart, Thomson & Kilroy, the firm representing the IBOs.
“The more documents and information that becomes public about how Quixtar
operates the better it is for my clients….”
JT take on it:
This is spin at best, insult in reality.
TEAM lawyers do not represent Quixtar IBOs. Their objective is to destroy Quixtar IBOs.
TEAM wants to use their manipulation machine to steal from Amways network of 3 million global ibos.
Quixtar attorneys are representing the IBOS.
All of the TEAM plaintiffs are not IBOS.
TEAMs messages consist of “a skin of a reason, wrapped around a lie”
September 13th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
WAIT FOR THE NEXT 18 MONTHS!!!!
WHY DON’T SAY THE TRUTH!!!
I KNOW AMWAY/QUIXTAR BEACAUSE MY DAD IS (RUBY)WHEN I WAS 16 NOW I GOT 28 I WAS LOYAL TO THIS COMPANY,BUT YOU ARE NOT A FRIEND YOU WANT TO DESTROY FAMYLIES,LET’EM GO………KEEP THE WORD TO PROTECT THE IBO’S….INTEGRITY
September 13th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
NEXT 19 SEP IN CALIFORNIA..ROUND 2
TEAM 1 — QUIXTAR/AMWAY 0
September 13th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
70chris
exhibit 1 - TEAMs “Let us out and there won’t be any trouble” proposal (threat)
exhibit 2 - August 9 Letter from Q/A General Counsel Mohr - After Q/A realized that TEAM didn’t want to change their “Team Approach”, and handed Q/A the proposal, Q/A left the room for a couple hours, when they came back handed TEAM ibos the Letter (exhibit 2). Then in the parking lot was TEAM’s lawyer with the lawsuit that TEAM had prepared before the Aug9 meeting in case TEAM demands were not met.
Now the only way i currently can perceive a TEAM ibo not believe that these exhibits favor Q/A is if they do not understand the mlm industry. Quixtar/Amway is NOT TEAMS business. TEAM ibos are distributors. TEAM has no right to tell A/Q how to run their business.
The simple/right thing for TEAM to do, was to leave quietly.
September 13th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
71 AEM Says:
September 13th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
What does it mean when so many IBO’s from Emeralds to Double Diamonds say publicly that the Alticor/Amway/Quixtar business is no good and want out?
____
JT says: It says that these ibos got caught for making their amway iboships an embarassment to Alticor and the rest of the Amway/Q ibos.
It says that Q/A decided to clean up their business and poor ibo practices that hurt Amways reputation.
It says that TEAM was the poster child of all the things Amway wanted to clean up: hide Q/A names, stacking, soliciting crossline ibos for their Tool system, internet advertising manipulation…. go to my site or read the court docs for info.
They wanted out b/c they didn’t want to change their TEAM Approach and believed they could not build Amway by the rules.
All they had to do was resign their iboships…. do a google search on “non-compete quixtar team orrin” and read the 12 reasons why TEAM should not be allowed to break the non-compete that they signed, agreed to, supported, and some even enforced as IBOAI leaders.
September 13th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Ignore the cool jets. Listen to Rich Devos from the 1970’s. Gives a good perspective that we need to get back to.
http://qreilly.blogspot.com/2007/09/putting-pieces-together.html
September 13th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Hey! How come the people in the UK got what the team wants? They are launching a “NEW Amway” in the UK, and because of this, all of their current distributors are being allowed out of their contracts if they desire. Go here:
http://qreilly.blogspot.com/2007/09/amway-uk-and-ireland-battling-for-their.html
September 13th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
So far out of about 26 votes at orrinwoodward blogspot, about 90% think the Court will say that Quixtar is Legal Business.
Quixtar/Amway have been the STANDARD that the FTC has used for about 30 years to decided if a buiness is legal or not. I expect this ruling (or if it leader to a higher court ruling) to declare the same verdict for the next 30 years.
September 13th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Jthompson
You take the cake on this one!! Your statements do not make any sense!! One, we don’t want to “take” anybody, don’t you get it? We want any and all of TEAM IBO’s have a choice!! If anyone that was on my team elected to stay with QuiAmxtarway after we would be allowed to leave I would wish them the very best!! And I believe I speak for all of TEAM on that. However, for what I am seeing, this would not happen because we all all resigning in droves. You need to get your head out of your butt and see the daylight. There is no spin, no other motive, we just want to be free. See, we belong to TEAM, not Quixtar. When you go to the mall and buy something, does the mall demand you let everyone know where you got it? Why would Quixtar care that they were not the forefront of our business. Ego. Well, there ego may cost them their industry. Seeeeeeeeeeyaaaaaaaa!!
September 13th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
To the Administrator:
I know this is a free-for-all blog, but please. Clean up the language and slang. Reference jthompson #62, line 2 and Platinum #36, what I call “second hand cussin;”
May I add, “Let the cause be greater than the controversy!” Go TEAM.
September 13th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Craig;
Nice website!!! I had an IBO try to sell those same products on his site, and Quixtar Legal got ahold of him and myself. Threatend him if he didn’t remove those products within two days he could be terminated. Maybe “Q” will start looking more closely into how, if any retail sales are generated.
September 13th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
First of all - pricing . . . Utah mentioned that price point items need to be developed, and that may be true (Daily for example is more of a price point item compared to XX), but I, as well as my entire family and many of my friends, prefer the higher quality products. Our Nutrilite XX are pharmacutical grade vitamins. Ask a pregnant woman how much her pharmacutical grade pre-natal vitamins cost. They tend to up upwards of $80, more than XX retails for.
I can’t imagine anyone thinking SA8 or LOC is too expensive — the stuff lasts forever, (and LOC does everything - heck, I grew even using it for bubble baths) and I still know customers (that’s right - not IBOs) who are on low fixed incomes that order those products on a regular basis).
Also, just off the top of my head - I recently started buying Nutripet Dog Food for my dog because it is so much less expensive and for all the research I’ve done (talking to the company, and checking with several vets), it seems to be as good or better than the brand I bought from PetsMart. My previous dog food was about $12 for 3 lbs or $4/lb; Nutripet is only $25 (retail) for 2 8lb bags or $1.56/lb, and that’s not even taking into consideration that she doesn’t need to eat as much of the Nutripet each day. Also, I’m currently addicted to our strawberry & raspberry preserves which are much less expensive than the preserves I had been buying, and the other brand had sugar in it (ours uses juice to sweeten). XS is the same price as Red Bull, and I’ve never met a single person who prefers Red Bull’s taste. If people are asking for price point (cheaper) items, that’s great, but some of us like the quality products.
Last, but not least, I am not now, nor ever have been ashamed of the Amway name and what it stands for. I know that in all industries, there are going to be people who are unethical, but all in all, I’m proud of Amway/Quixtar for upholding our standards. Many members of my family have been IBOs of Amway & Quixtar for decades and I have never so much as flinched if someone asks the, “Is it Amway?” question. In fact, even since the creation of Quixtar, I usually explain to prospective IBOs & customers that this is part of Amway before they even ask. As shocking as this may sound, even people who have no desire to become IBOs frequently link the term “Amway” with the great products they (or their parents) use (or used growing up). I suppose I really don’t see what the big deal is in “admitting” this is Amway.
September 13th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
The post on #67 is right on the money. For those of you wanting real perspective on what’s been happening since 2005 between Orrin and Q, read Orrin’s letter to Doug Devos sent six months into his IBOA membership in 2005. It, not only clarifies intentions, but wait till you see the statistics that were released in that board meeting about how we were doing six months after the launch of 1999. The letter can be read here.
September 13th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
@60: “you shouldn’t have to keep people in by contract” — please point to where in the rules & regs you’re FORCED to stay in the business. I haven’t seen that one.
I did re-read rule 6.5 this morning just to re-familiarize myself with the non-compete clauses, none of which are onerous and they’re even more lenient than I would have written.
September 13th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
I haven’t been on here in a while but it sounds like most of you are stuck. Get unglued from your computer. We are in the middle of a rebellion - the beginning of a revolution - those of you who don’t see it yet need to get Orrin and Chris’ book. Or at least read Kiyosaki’s Cashflow Quadrant because anyone not on board with TEAM is just an “E” or an “S” at best…As Kiyosaki says, “where is my paycheck sir.” (WIMP). Take the emotion out of it and create your legacy now. TEAM will take you in…they took us in! God Bless.
September 13th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
Just a thought but from what I have read all these IBO’s are/have or soon to resign their businesses. They plan to quit no matter what happens in court. My concern is for all IBO’s that stay. Is it not in our interests to just let them go? If they have to wait SIX months to be able to do anything else out there in the world then what do you think they will be doing for those six months. All we need is for 10’s of thousands of ex-IBO’s sitting at home making new blogs and videos that will hurt all the remaining IBO’s. Just let them go and lets continue doing what we do. Think of the remaining IBO’s not the ones that are already gone !!!!
September 13th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
#71 AEM:
It says that they either wasted a lot of their own time with a business that is “no good” (and are now wasting everyone else’s) or that they are mindless followers following “twue leadership”.
Yawn.
September 13th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
72 JT which of the planiffs are not IBO’s?
September 13th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
sorry, jt…but you are wrong about one thing. (did I just say ONE ? whoops…guess I’ve run out of Q’s miracle brain food …should’ve said ALL things )
anyway, this is one IBO who the TEAM attorneys ARE representing. and I can promise you that the IBOAI …ELECTED to represent me have done a crappy job…could I please have my $9 back ?!
and Q has NEVER represented me in anything…not from day 1…nada, nyet, nope, nein… however many ways there are to say no..that’s how many Team are going to use in referring to Q’s representation of us.
oh yeah, maybe someone could get jt some accurate info…he’s still posting that we have a 1 year non compete….and whoops…wrong again !
September 13th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
Craig Eddy:
“I’m guessing at least one person at Alticor/Quixtar has taken a peek and I haven’t gotten a complaint yet.”
History shows that as long as you don’t disagree with anything the Amway says, they will look the other way. I’m sure your site is just fine with Quixtar until they decide to invent reasons why it isn’t after you become very successful with it.
Regarding the non-compete: “They’re used to protect a company’s investment in your relationship with them,”
What about protecting my investment with this company? It’s been determined that the IBOAI is powerless. I built my team which reluctantly bought products from Q. Quixtar did not invest anything in me. It was the other way around. They made plenty of money off of me and my team. When I apply the Jay Factor to my team’s spending over the last year alone….what a rip!
September 13th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
JT,
guess I should have said EX IBO…I resigned yesterday, as have thousands of us…wonder who’ll buy all that XS now ? better hope your Dec date rolls around quick, so you can rush back in to retail it ! at $2 for 8oz….please .
September 13th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
Moderator, if you’ll forgive me for copying and reposting someone else’s comment, I think it’s appropriate. The upline that Neil references — John Crowe — is as I understand it in the same general group or ’system’ that originally sponsored Orrin Woodward and “grew him up” to at least the Emerald level. And they are still growing Emeralds, by the looks of it. Some perspective for those who are interested (”Let those who have ears, hear.”):
http://adatudes.opportunityzone.com/2007/08/14/Stacking-vs-DepthBuilding.aspx#10398
Neil Joseph said:
September 13, 2007 12:12 PM | #
You know its interesting reading all of these comments. Its amazing how so many people are blaming Quixtar or blaming their LOS or even their association for their failure in “their business”. I became an IBO 7 months ago and in August I reached the 7500 Silver level. In about 12 months I should be a new Emerald. You know why? Because this is “my” business. My success and failure depends on me. I have to go out there and do the work. I have to evaluate what is best for my business. Too many IBOs believe that they are in some type of “clan” or “group”. When are IBOs going to learn that they are an INDEPENDENT BUSINESS OWNER. Too many times we depend on an upline to spoon feed us like a child. If its one thing I learned from my upline Founders Double Diamond John Crowe is that this is a business about helping people. The more people you genuinely help the more you eventually make. Too many IBOs come into the business thinking otherwise. How do you think you make money? You sponsor some people and “hope” they do well? C’mon, the reason I went Silver is a short space of time is because I helped several persons become 1000s - 2500s in a shorter space of time. I taught them and they learnt not to make the same mistakes as me and my uplines. So they saw success faster. I suggest that everyone read a book about helping people and how to be concerned about the welfare of people. Those who get plugged into that thought process will not have to hang out on blogs complaining about their failure in this business.
September 13th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
Funny who wants a cup of coffee now! For those of you who are confused, Orrin WANTED to work with Quixtar–he wanted lower prices so we COULD retail products. The founding families are so hooked on their bloated profits, they couldn’t see basic economic truth–if they lowered some prices, they would sell more products, and then get MORE profits.
I won’t even debate what really happened in the meeting on Aug 9th; we can all read the statements from those who were there. What I really object to are the intimidating emails to IBOs implying they could be breaking some kind of law, and then more emails telling them all TEAM tools and functions are illegal. Add to that phone calls to people in MY team stating that Quixtar will find them new uplines. (No one has informed me of any rules violations in my own business, so is it because I happen to be in Orrin’s team?)
And they wonder why they have been hit with a slew of requests for restraining orders.
Get us where it hurts. Trying to recover my Quixtar business would be futile at best. But it’s not enough that they cut off my source of income, I can’t replace it for six months!
Read your Rules of Conduct, folks. We are all held hostage. The “6-month” non-compete can go on forever, if you aren’t careful. Rule 6.5.1. says “Compete” means not only to own, manage, operate, be employed by, consult for, or participate an an independent distributor in any other direct sales program (any other MLM), but includes ANY company that sells ANY products that compete with Quixtar.
So what’s left? I know, I could work for an attorney somewhere!
Keep reading those rules. Rule 6.5.8. very generously states that I can be employed by anyone who is not an IBO. (As long as the work is not for anyone or anything that could be construed as a product similar to any offered by Quixtar.) Pretty big of them, huh?
It gets better. But I won’t bore you.
Just try to leave. Just try.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:00 pm
#50
you hit it right on the head i am absoulutly amazied at the CHILDISH press releases from the corporation so much so that i am sending my resignation as soo as i am done typing this
September 13th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
if you step back to a 30,000 foot view of what is going on ……the corporation is tired of doing anything but manfactering product. they have found in other countries that they can sell retail and keep all the profit charging more then 30% markup on everything and not have to share with any ibo’s.
everyone needs to get a clue though they aint going anywhere because of the large biz oversea’s (which by the way doesn’t have the same pay scale so they are keeping even more of the profit) and the corporation will just set up a site and see if there are old ibos that will purchase cause they liked the product how many times have we all rean into someon that says “i dont want anything to do with the biz but cant you get me some of the shoe shine the used to have” (shoe shine just a silly example)
September 13th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
#72 jthompson
“TEAM lawyers do not represent Quixtar IBOs. Their objective is to destroy Quixtar IBOs.”
I went to a Quixtar Open years ago and did not join quixtar. I went to a TEAM open 4 years ago and saw something completely different. I joined the TEAM and the people. Just because Quixtar manufactures, distributes products with infrastructure doesn’t give them the right of ownership of people. Plus if Sam Walton, Kreskes, Ray Kroke, etc. can build infrastructure so can other people.No matter if the non-compete is a month or six months whatever happens the rocket will be launched. It just means the countdown has started. By the way Quixtar Attorney’s represent the corporation not the IBO’s. The IBO board represented the IBO’s Look at what happened to them. Month to month contract for the board means a tiger with no teeth.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
Team, win or lose will be gone…. now or in 6 months. It doesn’t matter. Q/A is in a lose/lose situation.
Many members of the IBOAI board knew that with a couple changes, Q/A could have become the Wal-mart of the internet. I know it makes you cringe, but Q/A has struggled to stay over 1 billion and Wal-mart does how many billions? Its the cater to the classes and live with the masses or cater to the masses and live with the classes thing.
We recently joined up with Team and I am extremely thankful that we did. Team or no, with the transformation announcement, the result is the same.
The IBOAI board that is in place to protect my
business is a paper tiger and a figurehead.
Trying to market products that the majority of IBO’s won’t even buy for their own use because of price.
The threat of being terminated because of philosophical differences after committing a huge portion of ones life to creating a business. (When will it be you?)
Stick a fork in me…. I’m done. I can’t in good concience represent this business anymore.
Resignation sent on 9/11. Appropriate, eh?
September 13th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
See, my point is that I have my 10 customers…
And they aren’t IBOs.
Has the TEAM unveiled what they plan to sell besides motivational CDs and DVDs? I haven’t heard of any movement in that arena.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:54 pm
Gladiator: We’re looking into the matter. Thank you for your patience.
rdknyvr: We’d prefer not to repost comments like that, but in your case we’ll allow it, as the link actually doesn’t go right to the comment itself. We’ll let the OZ team know about the link issue. Thank you.
September 13th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
I believe in Amway.
I don’t believe in their pricing structure.
I don’t have confidence they will do what is best for IBOs.
I don’t believe they will listen to a legitimate IBOAI. I believe that it serves their best interest to have an IBOAI that is a puppet regime that exists only to give legitimacy to their control
I don’t blame a person or persons there…sometimes things take on a life of their own. Some of the legal challenges they have faced may have put the wrong people in charge of decisions - people who are not out facing a public that has a negative perception of Amway. I didn’t get into Quixtar because I wanted to convince people that Amway was good. I got in it to make money. Now - the potential return on what it will cost to succeed is not worth the investment of my time, money, or influence.
Anything can be proved by example, so please don’t waste people’s time by quoting someone you know who has made a little doing everything by the Amway book, unless you are a diamond who has done that and have an organization under you who all do that.
There are some who believe that Amway is God and TEAM is the devil. Their are some who believe that the lawsuit is the Declaration of Independence and Amway is England. Who knows all the facts? (Although JT may.
Now he’s started blog. If he ever becomes an IBO he may have to have it registered with Amway, otherwise it might constitute illegal tools.)
Anyway, I’m taking Tex’s advice: “Just go.” I’M RESIGNING AS AN IBO THIS WEEK. I’ll wait six months and see where things go. I’ll never sell Amway. It’s not worth the time, effort, and money.
Once I resign, I will never post here again. If I’m not an IBO, I don’t believe it is my place to express an opinion. I also will not make putting down Amway my life mission. People who create websites just to run down someone else, usually end up hurt by what it does to them as a person. There is no such thing as leadership by criticism. I will not sit in the seat of the scornful.
I apologize if I have misjudged Amway in my analysis, I wish them the best. I wish the TEAM the best.
I hope you all experience God’s blessings as you bless your enemies.
Rico
September 13th, 2007 at 10:19 pm
#98 timeandmoney:
Philisophical differences? Are you kidding me? There is nothing philisophical about repeatedly being told that you are breaking the rules, putting the company at risk and refusing to correct issues. That’s pure defiance. Nothing more.
#99 Richard:
Thanks for pointing that out.
Instead of competing w/Q, TEAM will be competing w/Oprah’s Book-Of-The-Month Club.
Good luck w/that.
September 13th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
#99 Richard,
First of all I want to sincerely congratulate you on your 10 customers. I really hope they do stick around. Secondly, I don’t believe it is any of your concern what TEAM is doing considering you want to sell rather than develop.
jthompson
My husband and I have turned people down from signing up as customers because we feel we would be robbing them blind. Our purpose has been to help others succeed. I can’t in good conscience sell items that are three times the cost of Wal-Mart.
How are you going to persuade the single mom, who is currently paying $0.28 for Pampers, to increase her pay in the Amway specimen collectors to $0.50 per diaper. How is this helping anyone?
Rule 4.1 is “Good Faith and Fair Dealing” in the Q/A rules. How is three times the cost of Wal-Mart products for all the Amway customer that you will be required to sell to fair dealing? I think whoever created the Quixtar prices should be terminated themselves!
Or maybe Quixtar should be terminated for under Rule 4.1 for forcing people to renew into the Amway business from Quixtar if they want to keep their business. Sure, that sounds like fair dealing to me. I know all of you under that umbrella will need more than good faith to survive.
Lastly, there are other mlms who have recently been shut down for significantly more than 3% sales to customers. Quixtar has 3% sales to outside customers. I’ll let you do the math. I guess that is where you will be pushed to sell so you can cover the hide. You can have that job. I’ll continue working my passive income leadership development business so I can get rid of my job. At the end of life, I surely am not going to wish I had sold more SA8 to people! I am going to wish I had helped more people get free due to a “B” type business so that they can focus on the things in life that really matter.
September 13th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
85. Craid Eddy
1000pv is great
the question is RETAIL PROFIT not PV
How much retail $ profit was made or was it sold at ibo cost? thanks.
September 14th, 2007 at 1:06 am
Seems like the “haters” are running out of comments to keep their position. Lets not cloud things with meaningless chatter.
1.Jay Factor = Cost to manufacture X 3 = wholesale IBO cost=Reason for the 3.4% figure. (Yes..we’ve all been paying this)
2.IBOAI board = Powerless (So much for IBO representaion)
3.The “NEW AMWAY” = Lawyer decision (Glad you checked with the IBOAI on this one)
4. 20,000 + IBO’s = Resigning (What must be done, will be done)
5.Alticor’s deception = Uncovered (An obstacle to be removed)
I’ll stop here.
PS. New “IBO’s”.. I’m sorry.
TEAM “MEMBERS”.. Just a bump in the road.
September 14th, 2007 at 1:18 am
Anyone read my blog about non-compete contracts?
All these comments sound great “i saw Q business but did not get in… but later i saw TEAM and wanted to be part of it….”
Sorry, you got into a Quixtar mlm company, no matter what TEAM told you. You signed Quixtar distributor contacts, if you are a veteran, you signed it for 3 straight years.
Now if you have employee mentality and don’t ready business contracts and rules, then its your problem. Orrin and Team Leaders understand the non-compete. Read my blog comments about non-compete.
All this sounds great but if you have integrity to keep your word, you will wait for 6 months before doing another business, and wait 2 years before you add your downline.
FLIP FLOPPERS,
Before the month of August no person on the planet has heard a peep from TEAM complaining about non-competes and downing Quixtar opportunity.
I have low patience for the TEAM cult-followers, but i do respect the people who realize that Orrin… have not handled things perfectly but choose to be loyal… but i can’t stand Flip Flopers.
Elections season is getting near - have you asked Orrin yet if you are suppossed to be a Republican or Democrat? Oh yeah, if you start as a Democrat and learn they are wrong, do you sue them?
September 14th, 2007 at 5:19 am
To all those guys going on about TEAM wanting to have a cup of coffee, but being denied:
In 9# above, their is a link to a posting on Free the IBO. In it is some legal documents, prepared by a member of TEAM. It includes a document from Quixtar, and it includes an affidavit from Orrin. (Around pages 24-31)
Now do yourselves a favour and read it. I’ll give a short summary though, because I know you won’t bother. The Quixtar document (The termination letter) discloses that Quixtar had for 6 years been in discussion with TEAM to rectify several breaches of the code of conduct.
Yet another meeting was scheduled for early August, to discusss the violations. TEAM was not prepared to discuss the remedial actions, they were only prepared to discuss separation terms. According to Orrin’s affidavit.
Don’t truist me, read your upline’s affidavit on his own PR website for yourself!!
September 14th, 2007 at 9:46 am
An example of myths and lies that have been spread by Orrin Woodward, TEAM, etc…
http://www.iboaiblog.com/my_weblog/2007/08/former-iboai-di.html#comments
The comment refers to “Amway is getting rid of American ibos, going to start selling around them at stores, etc….”
This is flat out lie. TEAM Leaders and IBOAI members that have been terminated from the IBOAI DO NOT SPEAK for Amway/Quixtar.
This is how TEAM has tried to “take” Quixtar IBOS with them. Spread lies about Q/A and edify TEAM.
September 14th, 2007 at 10:49 am
Alitcor administrator, what constitutes a post that you guys would remove? I mentioned that Amway was allowing their distributors out of their contracts in the UK because the government shut Amway down over there. Did I break a rule or something?
September 14th, 2007 at 11:22 am
MojoMan: Not at all. Lots of times, we get comments in succession referencing the same external link. Your earlier comment regarding the UK situation is posted, as is our own update.
September 14th, 2007 at 11:30 am
108 - Piet
I read it. I have no more doubts. The two exhibits were submitted by TEAM, not Quixtar…
September 14th, 2007 at 11:45 am
JT -
I’m sure YOU’VE read your blog … and it’s sad you resort to simple name calling to make a point.
If I didn’t know any better, I’d swear you’re afraid others may not know your point.
Given this propensity to repeat information and invite others to come view “MY blog” that undoubtably repeats what has been repeated here and elsewhere ad nauseum, it would seem that perhaps you may be the one running for office. I think we may be aware of your platform.
If that is not the case, how about taking a break and allowing others to “weigh in” on the issues. I doubt you’re being paid by the word.
September 14th, 2007 at 11:48 am
JT,
I can’t figure you out. Are you lying? Willfully ignorant? Corporate hack? Seriously…what’s going on? It’s almost like you just want to upset people.
Mark’s resignation occurred long after the termination of TEAM. Yet it somehow is proof that TEAM was planning an MLM before termination? Additionally it is proof that TEAM was threatening Q?
At best you are twisting facts. At worst you are lying. I understand anybody who has a problem with TEAM. But I don’t understand someone lying just so that they can have a problem with TEAM.
It’s good to know, at least, that Amway agrees with TEAM…Dramaticly reduced prices! At least over seas. I guess we should have contacted DTI instead of the IBOAI board.
September 14th, 2007 at 11:48 am
Thanks admin. Once again, you guys are doing a great job, and no matter what side of the debate people are on, I can say that everyone does or at least should appreciate the work you put into these blogs. Thanks!
September 14th, 2007 at 11:56 am
Good point Mjoman #110.
http://qreilly.blogspot.com/ Go read the “UK letter without the spin”
VERY INTERESTING THAT AMWAY IS GIVING THE UK AN OPTION TO CONTINUE WITH THE “NEW”AMWAY (in October) OVER THERE OR NOT RENEW WITH THE NEW AMWAY. So WHY did the TEAM or any other IBO not wanting to go with the new North America Amway not have the choice?
DOUBLE STANDARDS????????
September 14th, 2007 at 11:57 am
please note Q’s own statement in their latest post re: difficulties in the UK
“What’s new today in the UK is that we’re announcing a whole series of positive changes taking effect in October. They include price cuts for easier retailing”
also ,as mojoman staes in #79 & #110…check out that policy they adopted for those folks
too bad they didn’t care enough to do the same for the North American IBOs
September 14th, 2007 at 11:57 am
# 94 rdknyvr - The correct LOA affiliation is Ron & Toby Hale, my friend. Someone that Mr. Woodward still edifies (as well as Dexter) in his teachings.
(oops, there I’ve gone and exposed confidential LOA information - a hex upon me!)
Of course, had I not heard that on an ISC BSM tape, I would not know that. So, maybe that places them (Dex and boys) in breach. There are sure a lot of tapes where folks edify their upline that have been distributed.
Guess we can expect that to go away in the interest of LOA affiliation confidentiality too, eh?
September 14th, 2007 at 11:59 am
Piet
As a member of Team for several years we have been constantly changing our procedures. We have always followed the rules and never wanted to be rebellious. Problem is, QuixAmtarway keeps tightening the noose. They keep changing the rules on us, demanding more, change this, don’t do that, “oh…your BSM is that good, wow, we better take control so we can get the money”. ” But TEAM, you have concerns?, What, Sorry….cant hear you”. “Say Again?, what price problems? What do you mean Quixtar is seperate than Amway?, What?…It’s in our ibo facts? Well….uh…. so what? We do what we want and you have no say…..cause WE OWN YOU!!”
You can only push so far. As someone who has personally known Orrin and Chris for several years Ican say I have never met anyone who has the characther and integrity of these two. I wonder why nobody has questioned why they keep up the fight since they are financially set for life? They are doing it for us. They are doing it for the Cause, and believe it or not, they are doing it for the future of every IBO in North America. This fight will have an effect on everyone, not just TEAM. This isn’t a fight for ego or pleasure, it is a fight for rights.
September 14th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
By the way….I resigned from Quixtar/Amway but they keep sending me emails. How can I put a stop to this? I don’t want to hear from them. I want them to go away. Take me off all your lists please. Oh….forgot, they don’t listen to us, they do whatever they want. Maybe I will have to find “other means” to get them to stop.
September 14th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
#118 Thunderstruck:
Report them as spamming you. It’s illegal.
September 14th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Jerad114,
I am quick to correct myself when wrong.
Point out specifically my “Lies” that are on my blog, by leaving a comment, and i will correct everyone.
September 14th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
Why are there hundreds of TEAM members all over the web blogging against Q/Amway?
Why are there very few (if any) active Q/Amway IBOs bloggers on the web?
1. TEAM has no busines right now. They don’t build Quixtar, and they have not other mlm business anymore.
2. Just like TEAM ibos didn’t blog before (outside of TEAM Leaders advertising blogs) so also ACTIVE Q IBOs don’t blog.
p.s. Did Orrin remove my blog url from google?
September 14th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
84: NL Said: “Our Nutrilite XX are pharmacutical grade vitamins. Ask a pregnant woman how much her pharmacutical grade pre-natal vitamins cost. They tend to up upwards of $80, more than XX retails for.”
If true, then the FDA will be wanting to talk with Quixtar about that. My wife had to get a prescription for her natal vitamins at “pharmacutical grade”. Last time I checked they were not available over the counter.
September 14th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
JT you don’t get freedom. The company was unwilling to change for the benifit of all. So whatever the court decides even if it Goes against TEAM or for TEAM we will follow what the court says. Then when the requirements are met we will be free of Quixtar. Then the changes that Quixtar refused will be implemented and something that will benifit everyone who choses to work the new opporunitty will bring great results for families, faninances, and the country. What won’t happen is me ever promoting the Quixtar opportunitty to the people I love.
September 14th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
Well gang, I just got ahold of my new 12 page manifesto that I get to leave with my new prospects. I’m sure that the little book of etiquette and some smelling salts ought to revive the prospect after they pass out from the “Reformation”, I mean, “Transformation”. We are gonna have some reeeeal energy in 09, after we merge with the global brand. It’s going to be somewhat similar to the kind of energy a boxer experiences when being knocked to the mat for the 3rd time in a round, TKO.
At the end of the day, what possible gain could the corporation have besides expediency in financial analytics, global tax implications, hubristic pride, and legal liability domestically and internationally?
Do the DeVos’s & VanAndel’s really think that in this “bottom-up” business model, people are going to have the road less travelled made easier by the AmWay name recognition? That is nuts. Why don’t the legal and marketing crews here go work for Ford…their sales are slumping and I’m sure they’re looking for some MI folk to help revitalize the Pinto? Heck, you guys are more divisive than Lee Iacocca was when he took over Chrysler. I think he only released 25 out of 26 Senior VP’s. Looks like we are a couple Dutch boys short of all the holes in the dam.
You’ve managed to p*** off everyone!
The funny thing here is that I’m an IBO in an accredited organization and I want to believe this model works…because I believe it can make a difference in people’s lives. The most dynamic CDs our organization used were from the leaders of TEAM and others involved in the lawsuit. Also very interesting is the wealth of knowledge shared by those individuals and encapsulated in many of the primary source books they referenced…Good To Great, Built To Last, etc.
Curiously, in Good To Great, it talks about the decision making process adhered to by the great companies. Wells Fargo, case in point, passionate democratic debate. My point is…WHEN, AMWAY, WILL YOU LISTEN TO EVERY IBO THAT WANTS TO BUILD THAT YOU ARE REGRESSIVE? NO US CITIZEN WANTS TO AFFILIATE WITH AMWAY…EVER!!!
Stick to your guns on this and you are going to suffer dearly.
As for me, I love the products, but you have done a good job at undermining the people in the field.
Also love the direct retail model of some of your new acquisitions. Very classy on your part.
September 14th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
Wow.
Q/A operates at a 17% operating margin.
No wonder it’s a glorified lazy susan business model. In & Out. Kind of a repetitive theme.
Wmart has a better model…diminish margin, increase volume.
Q/A - it’s not too late to change.
Come ‘09 and you’ve t