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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
September 7th, 2007 @ 12:02 pm ET…
Scheibeler recants
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
We’ve read some media and online chatter recently about a letter we received from Eric Scheibeler, and what that letter said.
Mr. Scheibeler’s credibility has been a settled issue with us for some time, so we didn’t feel urgency to publish his three-page letter of retraction, even though we got it in July.
Protests to the contrary aside, we’ve been entitled to publish it ever since. We’re choosing to do so today because now that the papers are writing about it (if we recall, the journalists’ term for “retraction” is “skinback”), we might as well let you read the letter for yourselves and see what you think.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar
September 7th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
who cares?!
September 7th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
I have never heard of Eric Scheibeler, nor seen any of his claims. Your Texas post (and the comments there) was better.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Still no word on the Texas deal… Where is it?!?
September 7th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
Clint: You’ll have to refer back to the Texas post for that information. This post deals with the Scheibeler news, which has little if anything to do with the last few weeks’ worth of TEAM-related news.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
1)I care!
“Searching for valuable information at an Amway Critic website is like searching in a Garbage Dump for a good piece food. You may find something, but in the proces you will become infected with stink.”
Eric’s website has been one of the most popular websites lieing about Amway.
of couse TEAM ibos don’t care about Eric’s website b/c they think they got into TEAM, not into Quixtar/Amway.
A couple years ago, i read a lot of Eric’s book. I remember the parts where he talks about Dexter and teachings of the business. I was amazing at how negative/slanted an attitude a person can have.
Actually, after reading his website, i became MORE positive about the business. Why/How? b/c his quotations made me realize what a massive and positive impact Amway and Amway IBOS have had on the world.
Scott Larsons website had the same effect on me. Listening to Amway IBO Leaders handle a challenge in 1982 meetings built my belief about the hearts/integrity of Amway Corp and Amway IBO Leaders.
I filter Erics/Scotts info through a couple of my brain cells, and it turned out to be a positive. But that doesn’t mean i have returned to his website, i don’t like searching.
Thanks admin of this blog - you are doing a great job, including not posting a few of my unnessary comments last week. This blog is run with fairness.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
#1, #2, #3, #4
Yes, there IS a business outside of TEAM.
It’s not all about TEAM.
Alticor, thanks for the post.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
To be clear, Mr Scheibeler’s “recant” is related to his claim that an IBO threatened him (this threat included telling him the type of gun he would use).
Some newspapers, not understanding that IBO’s are NOT EMPLOYEES OF QUIXTAR, phrased their news reports with company references that included the Devos’ name - and depending on how you interpreted it, some people could think DeVos threatened him.
Based on this letter, Mr. Scheibeler has not recanted his original allegation that an IBO threatened his life. Also, based on this letter, it does not appear that he has recanted any of the substance of his on-line book titled “Merchants of Deception”. These allegations are mainly related to IBO abuses related to tool income. Yes, tool income, the issue that keeps rearing it’s ugly head whenever you talk about reputational damage to the Quixtar/Amway business.
So, it’s pretty “slick” to use a title that attempts to leverage a very limited “recantation” and try to broad brush away some of the very serious allegations that it appears Mr. Scheibeler still believes occurred.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Unfortunately the “recently” link is getting redirected at pennlive.com.
September 7th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
Administrator,
Clint simply was asking about something that Alticor has had plenty of time to address. The pdf concerning Scheibeler made it online rather quickly since the media reported about it. Why hasn’t Alticor been able to take the Texas court ruling (already in pdf online) and email it out to all North American IBO’s as ordered by the court to do with a brief explaination?
Also, dealing with Scheibeler, why is his site still up and running and his “book” able to be downloaded since he has admitted to lying? He may have admitted to lying but who cares if people are still getting access to his lies.
September 7th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
So, when is he taking down his website?
www.merchantsofdeception.com
This ongoing lie has caused a lot of grief for a lot of people.
Scheibeler receiving money from the corporation while slandering it on the internet is a violation of IBO Rules of Conduct.
September 7th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
seems to me that alticor is trying the ole redirect…who cares about this eric guy, he is a has been, nobody cares
September 7th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Scheibler issued a statement on Feb. 9, 2007 which was intended to clear the air on the matter. If you got this in July, why bother? This has nothing to do with the real issues, other than it happens a lot more than you guys will ever admit.
The Pennsylvania court also denied arbitration in this matter, much to your company’s chagrin.
Big Deal is right.
How you choose to spend your time defending the Amway/Quixtar/Alticor interests is completely your business.
But if the company was really intelligent, they’d invest in a way to figure out how to address the real issues that have been spoken about since the internet first started revealing the obvious. Your prices, for example. The tools for another….
September 7th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
So basically, he clarified his claim by stating that the threats did not come from Amway corporate. Not much of a “recant.”
Anyway, I hope you’re not banking on this being your biggest legal victory this year.
September 7th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Are you distracting us?
September 7th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
jefe: We encourage you to post your comment on an earlier thread.
Craig Eddy: We noticed that, too. Looks like PennLive.com moved the article to a new URL. We’ll fix the original link in a few seconds here…
Steve: We are most certainly getting those PDFs up. The TRO situation changes daily. For that matter, if you–any of you–see PDFs posted online relevant to these issues, by all means tell us.
September 7th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
I have to say that, after my post #7 above, I do really respect the Alticor Communications Dept for their willingness to post opinions they obviously would not personally agree with.
Many other bloggers filter out any contrary opinions. So hats off to you guys.
September 7th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Sorry, kids. The world of Alticor does not revolve around TEAM. And neither do the blogs.
Get over yourselves.
September 7th, 2007 at 6:12 pm
Wow,
Team people, this is an alticore website, not the Team vrs Quixtar website updates. Quixtar has other things to do and while im sure your near the top of quixtars attention list, they do have other things going on. Dont you know how to blog? Post your response to a thread were its supposed to go, not where its on a completly different topic.
September 7th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
This is the funniest work of PR I’ve ever seen, he never recanted anything HE said, he recanted what OTHERS CLAIMED he said. People read more into his book then what he said and he was apologizing for those ignorant inferences. This isn’t some big confession, in Feb he publicly declared the same thing:
(See http://amquix.info/scheibeler_death_threats.htm)
To Bill M:
1.He has no reason to take his site down, and has not been required to. I don’t see how giving a personal testimony can harm people. Whatever information exists, it’s out there and people will decide for themselves - it’s quite morally presumptuous of you to claim what information people should or shouldn’t be absorbing (Jeff Megall - thank you for smoking).
2. Slander is spoken, libel is written. Nothing that he has written is libelous, and most certainly nothing that he has spoken has been slanderous. Please give references before accusing him of such things. In essense, your claims were libelous if you can’t back them up
3. If you are going to claim that he has caused a lot of grief, once again I expect you to be able to back that up. According to MOD, he has been put through much grief by his LOS…how can one man’s story cause grief to others? If you are arguing that it’s through attrition (thus hurting IBO business’), he can not be made responsible for the enlightenment of those who quit. IMHO, those who quit would be more likely to say they were harmed by joining rather then by quitting.
September 7th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
I’ve seen Eric Scheibeler’s e-book “Merchants of Deception” advertised on pro-MLM web sites that don’t appear to have an agenda against Quixtar. It’s good that Scheibeler’s lack of credibility has been further exposed.
September 7th, 2007 at 6:48 pm
See what [I] think? I think that calling that letter a recantation is pushing the bounds of honesty and integrity.
Scheibler basically apologized because a reporter or reporters misconstrued the threat against him as having come from a representative of the corporation, when in fact what he said was that another distributor/IBO threatened him.
He did not recant anything. He clarified the misquote. Hardly the same, and any junior-schooler can see the difference. One can only assume that the author of this blog can, too, which makes one wonder why, then, it was posted under such a deceptive headline.
Actually, it doesn’t make me wonder at all.
September 7th, 2007 at 8:00 pm
Alticor,
Thank you for posting this. I read Scheibeler’s book a while ago. I think it should be said though, that the statements Eric is “recanting” didn’t even appear in his book, to the best of my knowledge. It would appear as if the content of his book is still unchallenged. I find this interesting because Eric reveals some very unbecoming facts about Harteis and his organization, as it existed in the 1990s. For instance, Harteis’ requirement for his higher pins to use the travel agency of his choice that charged very inflated prices, and his seemingly bi-polar personality which went from kindly father figure to yelling, deriding tyrant, just to name two of them Eric claims.
If these statements were lies, I’m confused as to why Harteis didn’t have his lawyer (Abraham) go after Eric. My only conclusion is that Eric’s experience, as he relates it in his book, must be accurate enough in substance so as to remain unchallenged.
Please note that only at the end of the book does Eric start to speak his concerns about Amway because of what he feels is their “turning a blind eye” to the claimed injustices against him. Is this true? Who knows, but his “recanting” doesn’t recant the main objections he raised in his book regarding Amway.
Anyway, I think the book is a clear example of how AMOs and the tool business has and does continue to given A/Q a bad reputation. And this recent “recant” by Eric seemed more of an “I’m sorry people have said I said things” statement rather than an “I’m sorry for lying” statement.
Regardless, to dismiss Scheibeler as a liar and to dismiss his entire book just because of a few comments made about Amway is to act much too rashly, I believe. His book serves a useful purpose: to expose great abuses of the motivation business and to give Amway a chance to clean up the mess they’ve allowed for many years.
P.S. I am very open to anyone who can defend the Harteis organization and rebut the claims Eric makes in his book regarding the organization. However, so far over the years, even my own personal experience has caused me to agree with the many abuses of the systems, TEAM being only the most recent to surface in the mainstream. Thank you.
September 7th, 2007 at 8:07 pm
quixtar buying people…….jajajja,OK.GOOD MOVE
September 7th, 2007 at 8:54 pm
JimZ: We’re not perfect, but we try.
mex: Huh?
Folks: It seems a few of you demand a better headline. Fair enough. Write one.
September 7th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
Aron Gannon says: It’s good that Scheibeler’s lack of credibility has been further exposed.
Scheibeler did not lose any credibility here. He made two statements: “I contacted DeVos/Amway” and “I received threats.”
His “recant” simply makes clear that he never accused Amway/DeVos of making the threats.
Amway lawyers knew that Scheibeler had already made that point clear in February, several months before they sued him for “damages.”
I guess they felt their legal department needed an easy “victory.”
September 8th, 2007 at 12:43 am
JimZ
“Some newspapers, not understanding that IBO’s are NOT EMPLOYEES OF QUIXTAR”
Are you nuts? We are employees, in fact Quixway / Altihore calls us “property”. And acts like they own us and everyone we’ve ever met.
This is great stuff. On a better topic, how bout them Quixtar guys…My money is on by April or May when they aren’t running on pace to hit a Billion, the new spinster they just hired or Jim Payne comes out with the month to month IBOAI board and says “we have made unprecedented progress in our plan to fly one flag, and we thought it was going to take till 2009, but we are going to raise the SCAMWAY flag and lower the QUIXstarfish flag.
September 8th, 2007 at 1:08 am
Scheibeler had some very awkward wording in his book that implied people from A/Q threatened him, when in fact he meant to say upline threatened him.
Bottom line, I traded e-mails with him, and he was very happy to respond until I asked him how much tool profit HE made. Then the communication path went silent.
Quixtar has thus far refused to address the issue regarding whether they instructed the upline not to disclose tool profits.
As there is more than adequate evidence MUCH more money is made on tools versus Quixtar, the above non-response by both Scheibeler and Quixtar are inconsistent with an honest discussion.
Scheibeler And Quixtar are Afraid Of The Tool Profit Truth (So Is The IBOAI Board).
September 8th, 2007 at 2:14 am
I’m a non-Team Platinum IBO. I am absolutely disgusted by the tone of this blog. Alticor, you are doing a terrible job! I thought you were trying to improve the image of the corporation. Are you crazy? Please hire someone with a brain to run this blog! If this keeps up, it’s going to take a lot more than $200M to fix your image.
September 8th, 2007 at 8:58 am
Proposed replacement headline:
Short headline: “Scheibeler Exonerates Quixtar”
Longer headline: “Scheibeler Exonerates Quixtar of Threats”
September 8th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Blind eye? Did someone say Amway turned a blind eye?
Amway has PLENTY of blind eyes if you ask me. One of the 1st things their largest distributors TEACH, is to “listen to a tape per day”. Now, those tapes, mostly repetitive, tell you to listen to more tapes, to go to all functions, and to edify your upline in itself are useless to promote-retail or sell products outside the organization (meaning you ARE a PYRAMID), but to BUY 2 PER WEEK, AND LISTEN TO ONE (repetetive tape)PER DAY!
THAT SMACKS WITH BRAINWASHING.
BRAINWASHING LEADS TO OTHER CULT LIKE TACTICS.
Now, don’t say you didn’t KNOW. This has been going on for DECADES, and you’ve PAID these distributors MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
September 8th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
“Amway absolved of threatening Scheibeler”
September 8th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
“Scheibeler absolves Amway of threats”
September 8th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
“Scheibeler Confirms Amway Not Involved In Threats”
September 9th, 2007 at 1:00 am
Niki,
Speaking of reputation, how much do you make on tools? How much does your upline Emerald and Diamond make? Is the amount hidden from most prospects and IBO’s, or commonly known? The answers to these questions are the source of negative reputation, so answer openly and honestly.
September 9th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
#30. Don’t know what you listen to. The audios I listen to have sound business building techniques on how to sell and sponsor as well as success stories that inspire. When someone comes into this business there is enough material from Quixtar emphasising that the sale of product is necessary. When we started the business we read the literature Amway sent us. Isn’t that a novel idea. How can an IBO ignore the information? Maybe someone should say that the purpose of the training materials is to equip a person to get results. That is what I have concentrated on. We have happy customers, and happy IBOs.
September 10th, 2007 at 9:33 am
That is great news. One less lier on the net and elsewhere, spreading their negative thoughts.
Great job Alticor, that is one thing you did correctly.
September 10th, 2007 at 9:57 am
Kevin, chris, et al: There are plenty of previous posts that discuss the TEAM situation. Expect more to come. Otherwise, this post deals with Scheibeler. Granted, JaHn3tiC’s comment above makes a brief mention of TEAM in a postscript, so we can be flexible given the right context. Otherwise, we encourage you to stay on topic.
Folks: We see a few stabs at a better headline. No other takers?
September 10th, 2007 at 10:46 am
30willy - i can tell you “know someone intimately” that is broke.
My dad is sales trainer for a billion dollar company. He listened to tapes (3-4/day) in the car too.
MOST successful people in sales/business listen to tapes…..
September 10th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
36/Geo - agreed!
Geo is your sponsor named Don?
September 10th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Hi Ron Hale…give our love to Toby…you guys are an inspiration to all of us!
September 10th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
Hi Tex,
I’d be happy to share those numbers with you as soon as you tell me what group you’re with. I haven’t read much on these blogs, but notice that you have a lot of posts. Are you an IBO? If so with what group?
Thanks,
Niki
September 10th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
In the same vein as your own headline, but more accurate, would be:
“Scheibler clarifies”
“Scheibler issues clarification”
“Scheibler clarifies threat did NOT come from AmQuix Corp”
…or even keeping your pro-Amway stance (it is your blog after all) “Scheibler admits he was never threatened by the Amway Corp”. Still slightly yellow, in that to admit something does connote a previous denial, but more accurate that “recant”, which Mr. Scheibler clearly did not do.
September 10th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
I’m new, been an IBO for about a month.
Last week, while looking for news about Quixtar on the Internet to share with my family, I found Eric Scheibeler Web Site along with the book he wrote. I found another Web Site that stated Quixtar/Amway was a cult. I discounted it right away.
I became an IBO because I saw it as a opportunity to help myself get out of debt, and to start dreaming again instead of always struggling to survive. I’m 50 years old and don’t have a retirement plan, thus no real security. I’ve been divorced for 13 years and although I’d like to find someone to love and who would love me, I can’t bank on it.
So far what I’ve learned is Quixtar/Amway is teaching me how to earn an income selling quality products. My up lines have never said it’s a “get rich quick” scheme, they said I’d have to work at it. Although becoming a Premiere IBO cost me money, paying for the Web Site to be maintained cost me money, teaching material cost me money, no ones pressured me. As with any new business, there will be start-up costs. I have a choice, I can follow the plan and watch the system work for me, or I can make excuses as to why it doesn’t work because I wasn’t following CORE, and one of the things in CORE is to be accountable.
When someone complains about not making money in the business, there’s a reason. There are more people who have proved the system works, then there are those who say it doesn’t. As with any system, you work the plan, ask advice, take the advice, and ask for help if you’re scared. There are more people who are willing to help people in this business, then not. If you don’t work the steps, the steps won’t work for you.
September 10th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
ron hale #35,
How’s Toby? If there is so much information from Quixtar that sales is necessary, why is the retail level so low? I was encouraged NOT to read the rules by my upline. That’s how an IBO ignores the information.
September 11th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Tex,
Retail sales are low due to product pricing, ever shown a plan? And no matter what your upline does or does not encourage you to do you can make independent choices. So YOU must have made the choice to not read the rules. Habit 1 say’s you cannot blame others for your choices.
September 11th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
Hello again everyone,
I like all the headlines people have suggested. They definitely are way more accurate than the original. I’m not sure why the Alticor Admin is still asking for more, because the 5-6 already suggested are just fine methinks.
However, what amazes me is the number of people just on this one thread who IMMEDIATELY read the short post and concluded that Scheibeler was/is a total liar and that Amway has now “debunked” another myth/critic.
This is a clear example of the zombie-like/cult-like tendencies that, ironically, Scheibeler and many others have written about. It appears as if some IBOs *want* to believe so badly that they jump to any conclusion that fits their desired worldview regardless of the facts.
Now of course not all IBOs are like this, and I encourage every IBO reading this to not be so rash in your thinking. Mature, logical businesspeople shouldn’t act so rashly and emotionally because the truth is, as quixfreak in post 19 said so very well, Scheibeler wasn’t “recanting” anything but merely clarifying what others said that he said. At least that is my understanding after looking at the facts.
Once again, I found Scheibeler’s book very interesting, and once again, I think it exposes some of the long-standing (for decades) issues that are hurting this business. So thank you Alticor for facilitating this discussion.
September 11th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
Peter #40,
Yes Ron, are you and Toby enjoying your “tool” lifestyle? Peter, are you inspired by Ron and Toby making most of their profit on tools, yet making us think it came from Amway/Quixtar? I’m not.
Niki #41,
It makes no difference what group I’m in, that wouldn’t change your tool profit. I am an IBO however. But even THAT doesn’t change your tool profit. Sounds to me like someone (that would be YOU, Niki, in case there is any question) is not particularly proud of their tool income.
Sharon #43,
You lack a lot of knowledge in what is actually happening. You are in what is referred to as the “honeymoon” stage.
September 12th, 2007 at 9:47 am
Thank you Peter Burr. Tex, Toby is fine. The registration form, periodic reminders in the Amagram/Achieve, mailings, rules and code of ethics, company sponsored events, responsible uplines all contribute to informing the IBO of their responsibilities. When I look at our group, those who are really involved sell a lot of product to clients/customers. With a 38 year old group we have many IBOs who just renew to stay in touch. They buy an occassional product that they like. They also contribute to the low average announced by Quixtar. Doyle Yager has spent enormous time and energy providing feature/benefit information to enhance the sell experience. It works. The announcement of more products moderately priced will help tremendously in marketing our products in rural areas with lower incomes.
September 12th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
#35 Ron Hale
cc #44
Ron what did Toby think last week with all the resignations? Your prize claim to fame of the “Hale Dyn”
How many was it?
I did the quick math…Somewhere around…
8 Diamonds
18 Em.
18 Saph
114 Plat.
xx,000 other IBO’s
This is the leg you had that from Jan.-July 2007 had generated more volume than the entire year in 2006.
WOW that is alot committed team members. Where does your loyalties lie?
I hope they are not “LIE”ing on the wrong side of the fence.
September 13th, 2007 at 10:10 am
Wendi: We’d be happy to publish your comment on a post that doesn’t deal directly with the Scheibeler news, as this post does.
September 13th, 2007 at 11:59 am
49 TEAM going bye bye is great news - it is the LAUNCH to Amway Business Transformation.
The Challenge will be big - but Amway has the Opportunity to get to over 10 billion dollars in Global Sales the next 5 years. (double)
What helps is that the best Leaders in the field and at the Corp are still around.
September 13th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Tex#47,
I’ve known for a long time that Ron and Toby, just like the other “big pins”, have earned most of their “business related” money from their organizational and motivational efforts. I respect your undaunted courage in continuing fight to minimize tool system abuses, but I also admire and respect the efforts of the organizers and motivators. Whom I respect most are the IBOs who come into this organization for the right reasons and work at developing a real business using the fantastic opportunity that Amway/Quixtar makes possible.
September 13th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Ron Hale, you and Toby are the single biggest reason I am in the business. We are not in your group. We are grateful to both of you for your teaching and inspiration..
I agree with you on Doyle Yager.
Gob Bless you both and hope to see you at FE.
September 13th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
administrator, what does #49 have to do with scheibleler news
September 13th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Tex, some random thoughts.
Ron and Toby Hale did go Diamond and EDC.
On the Tapes and CDs they teach and motivate on building the Quixtar/Amway business. At this point I can not motivate, teach or communicate the way that Ron & Toby do, at least to me, to my personality. Most likely I will never communicate like them. I do believe I can still go Diamond, EDC, and higher. And I can find people who are just as good communicators as them and better.
If someone in my group connects with Ron & Toby the way I do, then we have an IBO for file. If they don’t I choose another CD. If they don’t connect with any CD, they never last long.
If thousands of people buy their CDs, then it is my opinion that they should be compensated for this. I truly believe that it is not my business how much they make on CDs, speeches or what ever else. The tool income is between them and the IRS.
I don’t believe every IBO or Platinum should share in the tool profits. This is too Socialist for me. The demand for the best speakers, who have built to a level, should dictate who makes more tool money. I love capitalism. I don’t agree there should be a tool payment plan/schedule that is published.
If we look at the sports and entertainment business, we see how one superstar makes $100 million and someone else $1 million. Someone decided they are worth $100 million.
September 13th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Critic sites, motives
Go to websites of well-known critics, and what do you see? You see paid ads for other mlms and other products. why?
MLM competitors all know that Amway has the LARGEST mlm distributor base in the world… i think around 3,000,000 people…. people that are well trained.
Most of the negative sites against Q/A are funded by competing mlm companies
ex: amquix, webraw, eric, etc….
September 13th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
ok, I believe that it is time for some input on my end. When reading these inputs , I am reminded that some people do not understand business and how people who have achieved greatness in business’s must attend training classes and listen to training cd’s etc. If you read bio’s about awesome men in business, you will know that they studied, read, listened , went to training sessions etc. People that really understand business, know this fact. Alot of these business people also went to college for training in their field.
The great thing about this business is that a person who has no prior experience in sales, people skills, business in general, can start up their own business and they can be taught business principles, people skills and learn how to inspire others. How? duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
we have such an inexpensive way to learn all these skills without paying hundreds upon thousands of dollars to attend conferences to learn how to keep a business of our own increasing. I am shocked that there are actually people out there who want to complain and attack people like Ron & Toby Hale who have built a business on sound business principles, who proved that you do not have to have a college degree nor be a CEO or run a huge company. The country is built on people achieving the American Dream,to know that no matter where you come from, everyone has the same opportunity to achieve greatness. Ron & Toby have been a true example of that. They inspire the ordinary person to become extraordinary. People like Ron & Toby Hale, thru this business, give people HOPE. I know , that I have succeeded in business and have become a better person to my family and friends because I listened to their talks and if I did nothing but grasp one idea to help me reach another level, then I succeeded. For that , I am truly thankful. I have very successful friends that own their own business’s outside of this Quixtar business and they ask me for our cd’s and books that we carry to help them in their own business’s.
WOW!!!! Let the track record of awesome people like Ron & Toby speak for themselves. IT is obvious that people like Tex, have no clue about the great integrity of Ron & Toby and probably do not care. His only concern is to destroy credibility of great people to make himself look better. There are books about people like this that can help them on their self esteem. HE might want to invest in this at a bookstore, or maybe not, the bookstore purchases those books at a discount and low and behold , they should make a dollar or two stocking them in their store and having to pay their employees to help people purchase their books. I dont believe that tex probably spends alot of time trying to improve himself.
talking machine, over and out.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Tex,
Why are you so antagonistic? I think its fair to know who I’m talking to before I discuss personal information. I make peanuts off the tool system, way less than my Quixtar bonus. Here ya go: $7 off every premiere member ship and $1 off ever Kate voice mail system. So there ya go a whopping $200-350 per month. Of course I pay shipping on everyones CDs and have to order them in advance and have them in stock - this covers my cost and keeps my checking account from going negative - that’s about it. I make $2000-3000 in Quixtar bonuses monthly. I’ve posted this on other sites as well. No mystery here.
I know my emerald makes $3 for a premiere membership and not sure of the rest. I don’t think its the majority of their income either. I’m in WWDB and we let people know this up front its in our WSA4400. I don’t know what my diamond makes, but I’m sure its a lot more, but he’s got a huge group of people he’s holding together. I’m in corporate sales, and guess what my boss makes a cut off of everything I make. He’s paid extra incentives that I don’t know about or how much they are to keep his team together. I also have a non-compete agreement that I had to sign.
It’a all a conspiracy theory tex, they’re all out to get you. Chill out dude.
Niki
September 13th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Tex,
One more thing we work all the functions for free. The tool money is not something I brag about dude, but we appreciate it so we can serve our group. I’m sure this will give you something else to rag about. I will have no futher discussion with you, but you’re welcome!
Have a fabulous life!
Niki
September 18th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
On the Scheibler thing, the other stuff wasn’t addressed because most of it can not even be closely related to being illegal. I am sure Quixtar/Amway/Alticor isn’t fond of his statements/opinions but in the grand scheme of things, they could probably give a crap. But threatening someone’s life is punishable by law and Alitcor as a whole, I am sure, wants nothing to do with it as a practice nor anyone who does that.
Now as for Tex … First off, you have been watching too much 20/20 with your hero Stone Phillips. The tool stuff is so overblown as most of the bonuses have NEVER come from tool orders. I should certainly hope the higher pins get money from them also seeing as how their names are all over them. By the way, have you protested Anthony Robbins or Stephen Covey or any of the likes lately? No. Didn’t think so. Welcome to the world of business Tex. Bring facts next time and leave the useless rhetoric at home.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:25 am
#49 Just the Facts
Toby and I are naturally concerned.
Perhaps you should look at the facts. Do you think growth justifies breaking the rules? Do you think selling your soul is worth money? Oh you say “we haven’t broken the rules”. Well, your upline diamond says he hasn’t broken any rules, he says it is his downline, and he shouldn’t be responsible. Seek the facts, be different than the other critics. Ask your upline for the letters they have received over the years spelling out the rules violations. Ask for the termination letter that specifically points out the rules violations of “Team”. Trying to hide behind the pricing issues does not shelter “Team” from the facts.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:52 am
Tex We stand behind our good name. We have noticed most people do not use their name on the Blogs. Why not? We have always been transparent on where our incomes come from. At times there were some profits and often losses on Business Support Materials. We built an Amway/quixtar business not a tool business. Our lifestyle is supported by the Amway/Quixtar business. Sure there have been some abuses, however in the early nineties a few of us helped the Amway Company write the Business Support Materials rules. If you have read them you will see they are quite comprehensive. Lots of protection for the new Amway/Quixtar Independent Business Owner (IBO). I would like to suggest that you and other critics become aware of the enormous effort put forth by responsible leaders and Amway/Quixtar to enforce the rules. It should be obvious that controlling profits of tools is near impossible. It is more important to direct the attention to the abuses. Intimidation, aggressive over promotion (such as people encouraged to purchase more than they need) and threats to not work with someone unless they do what they are told are some of the issues. The rules, if read by the new IBO, are very clear. How can you and others help? Nothing much is accomplished by ranting and raving about something. Why not emphasise reading the “registration form” and the BSM rules. From my experience, most of the leaders I know are responsible dedicated men and women who build Amway/Quixtar. I am proud of them and what they accomplish. It is sad when someone takes a shortcut. Over the years they seem to get flushed out.
September 19th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Ron, I dig you. I respect you. You are one of the elite as far as having and teaching the skill sets needed to build this business. I salute you and your accomplishments.
But my brutha, you have to be clear on two issues:
1) Tool systems do not loose money once they’ve established themselves. At least not commonly. Sure, there may be months where investments may outstrip profit. But these events are expected in any business that is growing and evolving. However they are rare occurrences.
2) Acknowledging that the occasional downline breaks rules is not placing blame on downline. EVERYBODY has downline that does stuff they were told not to. Except people who don’t have any downline at all. It’s the nature of the business. With all due respect I’m willing to believe that you, Ron Hale, have received growth in your business due to violations in the Rules of Conduct that you have no idea even happened. And that’s on top of the infractions that you may have gotten wind of and put a stop to. It is unavoidable as groups become bigger.(To be clear, I know of no infractions that have been committed in your group…but I know how business goes. We do our level best to keep the waters clean)
The point is that TEAM does not teach, encourage or endorse practices that break the Rules of Conduct.
Anyone who says anything contrary is either lying or misinformed.
Bottomline.
September 19th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
Incredibly well said Ron
September 19th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
Peter M Burr MD #52,
It doesn’t matter what you (or me) know, or for how long, about Ron and Toby Hale making most of their money from tools. It is what the typical prospect and IBO knows after seeing the marketing plan and an Open and/or Seminar or two. I don’t admire liars. I don’t admire cowards. I don’t admire Ron and Toby Hale, because the stirring message they made on DY-60 is a very small part of the real story. They should be ashamed of themselves.
Olib #55/talking machine #57,
All of what you said does not make it right for Ron and Toby Hale (and the other Emeralds and above who make most of their profit from tools) to distort the business model and lie about where they made most of their money by “conveniently” leaving out the tool profits they have made. The athletes you referred to are not pretending to be our “teammates” or “business partners”. We know more about where Tiger Woods, an independent golfer, makes money on golf versus his endorsements than your upline, a self proclaimed teammate and business partner of yours, makes on Quixtar versus tools.
Niki #58/9,
I’m not antagonistic. I am asking for facts that are as easy to get as getting blood out of a turnip. Thanks for your responses. Do you charge your downline for shipping costs or absorb that cost? Most employees don’t know what other employees make. I don’t know what my boss makes. But I should know how much my upline makes on tools. After all, they call me their “business partner” and “teammate”, and I pay my money that goes to their profits and my losses, unlike the employee/boss scenario you incorrectly tried to use. I am not into conspiracy theories, but I am into honesty. Chill out, dudette. Why don’t you brag about the tool money? Aren’t you proud of it?
DPW #60,
I have plenty of facts that indicate most profit for Emeralds and above come from the tools. Anthony Robbins or Stephen Covey don’t claim to be my “business partner” or “teammate”, either. Huge difference. Big. Huge. Difference.
Ron #61/2,
Why don’t you post the letters regarding the long history of broken rules? Stand up, Ron. Be a real man.
You don’t have a good name with me. I don’t like liars. I don’t like cowards. If you lie about where you make most of your profit and are too cowardly to admit it, you don’t have my respect.
Most people don’t use their real names because the upline has been known to threaten people physically and financially/legally. Simple stuff.
The wording on your post would lead one to conclude you make “some profits and often losses” on BSM. You have been tranparent? How much have you made from Amway/Quixtar and ALL tools (including functions) for the past couple of decades? Here’s your chance Ron. I assume you won’t say what Ron Simmons and Chuck Goetschel said, that the corp won’t allow you to be honest with us. No spin about your lifestyle being supported by Amway/Quixtar while you stash MUCH more into your bank account/stocks/other businesses. How about some direct answers?
What part of the BSM rules make it clear the level of tool profit for the typical Emerald and above? I guess your definition of “comprehensive” is different than mine. Name the rule numbers, Ron. Then you turn around and say the profits can’t be controlled. Which is it, Ron? Pick on side or the other, you can’t have it both ways.
I’m not “ranting and raving”, I am demanding the FACTS, Ron. Let’s have some, for a change. Seems to be working in the UK and on the various corporate blogs, Ron. There’s a lot more flushing that should be done.
September 20th, 2007 at 10:49 am
Ron Hale-
1. If the 8 TEAM diamonds are in your LOA wouldn’t that mean that you are responsible if they break the rules? If not, please tell us why. Us low men on the totem pole don’t know how it works up there.
2. Please be transparent about your accusations of TEAM. How did TEAM specifically break the rules? You are a person of high esteem in the business so your insight into this is valuable to me.
3. Confirm please that no one in your current diamondship has ever broken any rules and please share with us your method of keeping track of this. I don’t mean to be smug here but I can’t believe that rules aren’t being broken all the time. If you could just share your take on this I would appreciate it.
September 20th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
DLSChicago #66,
1. I think TEAM broke away from Ron several years ago. Once you reach Platinum and aren’t plugged into your upline’s tool system and advice, it doesn’t seem reasonable for Ron to be in any way responsible for their errors.
2. Ron probably doesn’t know the speciics, he wasn’t working with them, remember?
3. This would be nearly impossible to do. See above. I don’t care what Ron thinks, he is unable and/or unwilling to answer simple questions regarding his massive tool profits.
September 20th, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Tex #65 — First, I’d like to state that, having never felt “swindled” in any way, I really thought your claims spanning several blogs seemed silly, but I have been informed that there are people who abuse or misuse the tool business, and I admire that you care so much.
That said . . . I recommend that you know what you’re talking about before you personally attack and make accusations against individuals of whom you clearly know nothing. Unless you have proof that the Hales make more money on books, cds, & functions than on their Quixtar/Amway income and bonuses, I suggest that you avoid calling them liars and cowards. I happen to know that you have no such proof because I have proof to the contrary. In case you are unaware of this — such statements made without proof could be considered libel from someone less forgiving than Mr. Hale.
Ron and Toby have built their business with the utmost integrity. And yes, it is true that many of the TEAM diamonds were in the Hale LOS and that they pulled away years ago from the Hale leadership.
Also, I for one do not think Ron Hale or any other person on this planet (except maybe elected officials paid by tax dollars) owe you any explanation or details of their income - from whatever the source. I suppose I was taught that it was rude to ask people how much they make, but I’m sure you’ll keep trying.
September 20th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
To Tex and others like him,
It is very clear , as it is to most of us out here, that are highly intelligent people, that you Tex, for whatever reasons, are holding a grudge against this business and the people who build their quixtar business the right way. Every company in America have people in their that give that company a bad name. There are people that work in the grocery stores, shopping malls, pharmacy’s large companies, etc. that we have probably had a bad experience with, but that does not change the store itself. Intelligent people know that. It seems to me that if you had been in this business before, you obviously didnt have what it took to build a successful business, or you would not be condemning those of us who are in Quixtar to have income and lifestyle.
It is not the fault of “great Quixtar Diamonds” that you are so miserable with your life that you have to belittle others to make yourself look better. To attack a truly awesome couple like Ron & Toby who actually CARE about what happens to people in their group. THat is why they receive hundreds upon hundreds of letters yearly from people who achieved greatness in this business because Ron & Toby or some of the other great leaders in this Quixtar business helped them. How many people in your lifetime can actually say that you have helped them succeed financially or just helped ?? When you get to the numbers of people that ron & Toby or hundreds of other ibo’s then give us your comments. Until then, You have no credibility with us.
You do not know Ron & Toby, yet you condemn them. Your comments on Ron & Toby are enough to let all of us know , that you totally like to run that mouth without any information. When someone attacks good, honest, people, then you know the person doing the attacking has some major problems.It is really NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS OR MY BUSINESS WHERE THEIR MONEY COMES FROM OR WHAT THEY SPEND IT ON. They pay their taxes and have accountants. They have been blessed. Have you???
What do you do Tex?? How much do you earn TEx?? how long have you been with that company tex??? what do you do with your money Tex?There are people in this Quixtar business who are or have been doctors, into real estate, lawyers, managers of stores teachers, etc, and it is seriously none of your business what amount they make from their professional income and what amount they make from their Quixtar business. You are so obsessed with how much money people make on a tool business that you believe everyone is lying and a crook if they tell you that they actually make a GREAT income from this Quixtar business. I am one of those people and I have no tool income nor do i need one.LIke Ron & Toby said, they make the majority of their income from the Quixtar business. So do hundreds of others!!!!!!!!!!!!
I actually have clients who love these products and they ARE INTELLIGENT ENOUGH to know that they are saving money .
How much do doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. spend learning their trade in college????How unnecessary do you think that training is?? The next time you need surgery, just go next door to one of your friends and have them do the surgery. You have a problem with people getting trained on how to build a successful business and deal with people, selling techniques, etc. yet I guess when someone decides to go into a profession, you think they can just become without training. NEW CONCEPT. I AM SURE that belief will get you and your family far. I will assure you that the investment that IBO’S put into these things is nothing compared to what the above professions put into their training.
I will echo what the majority of people in Quixtar are saying right now. We admire a company that after warning a business several times, will finally say, you are breaking rules, and I am proud of the stand the company has taken and I admire them for protecting our business’s.
As for you, Tex, after your last attack on Ron & Toby, it became real obvious that you are the one who puts out gossip with no proof and I personally do not want to take the time away from living life to keep reading your trash.
September 20th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
NL #68,
Just because you don’t FEEL you have been swindled in any way doesn’t mean you and others weren’t swindled. These folks are VERY good at making you smile while taking it in the you know where.
All I did was ask “Mr. Hale” for how much he makes on tools. I have several sources that indicate he makes several time more from tools than A/Q. I just don’t know if he’s man enough to pony up the facts, that’s all. It’s not libel to ask questions. If he doesn’t make the big bucks via tools, he has nothing to fear. He does owe the facts, however. There is a fundamental difference between the upline, who claim to be our “business partners” and “teammates”, and any other scenario you can come up with. We have every right to demand this information, after all, we’re paying these so-called business partners and teammates our dollars for the tools. Wake up and smell the UK coffee.
talking machine #69,
Spare me the violins and read my response above. I suspect Ron’s lack of an answer means he makes a tool profit about what Andy Andrews described on the youtube video. Have you seen that video? Or about what former Diamond Bruce Anderson stated, now posted on qblog. Have you read that exchange with “Curious”? (that was my “handle” on Bruce’s site) Or the various lawsuits by the Morrison group, Ken Stewart, Brig Hart, etc. Have you read those lawsuits? If not, you don’t have a clue about what you’re trying to talk about, so it makes sense you don’t want to “keep reading my trash”, because you can’t tell the difference between your trash and my facts.
September 21st, 2007 at 10:25 am
Talking Machine,
I admire your loyalty to Ron and Toby. I had not heard of them previous to this blog but I can see that they inspire many in Quixtar.
What I would like to know is if your statement about admiring a company that after warning a business several times for breaking the rules has any backup. I am looking for someone to provide this. So far, no one has.
Like you, I admire my leaders and do not appreciate them being slandered any more than you do yours. I’d just like to ask that you make sure that what you say is true before you state it.
September 21st, 2007 at 10:35 am
Have you noticed that the title of this thread is still “Scheibeler Recants” ?
September 21st, 2007 at 6:23 pm
#63 Dear Mr. Ron Hale,
Let me first began by thanking you for writing here. I do respect you & your wife.
Please Ron what I’d LOVE to see you admit, is the GREAT amount of money being made from the sale of the BSM, which is, IF you’ll please be honest about it, is much much more then made off of the PV /BV generated from your business group. Correct?
September 23rd, 2007 at 9:41 am
DLSChicago #71,
There are numerous references to TEAM being in trouble with the rules for years. Do your “leaders” tell the truth when it comes to tool profits?
ThierryD #72,
Have you seen the article, apparently written by Scheibeler, where he essentially denies his recant? I can’t find it right now, will repost when I come across it again. However, it’s not uncommon for a thread to go off-topic, unless the moderator keeps on top of this issue.
burntheboats #73,
You respect Ron, then you turn around and ask him to tell the truth after several decades of ripping off IBO’s? You have an interesting definition of “respect”.
September 23rd, 2007 at 7:19 pm
Tex, thank-you 4 the great big laugh… it made my day.
To inform you, I was trying to use some people skills, of which I sincerely hope you can use a bit more of them. And to answer your question, I do respect Ron & Toby, simply because they have built an EDC Biz and in my book that deservers some respect.
September 24th, 2007 at 11:22 am
burntheboat #75,
There is no need to use “people skills” with unethical and immoral people. It only clouds the issue. Save your “people skills” when dealing with ethical and moral folks.
I do find it interesting we haven’t heard from your “hero” Ron Hale for several days. Cat got your tongue, Ron?
I also “respect” someone who can build the business to EDC with the tool scam, in the same manner I “respect” Hitler’s ability to invade countries and cause the deaths of tens of millions of people. Real impressive.
September 24th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Tex #70
First of all, asking Mr. Hale questions is not libel . . . however, blatantly calling him a liar and stating that he makes more on BSM than on his Q/A business with nothing to back it up is pretty close. You stated:
“All of what you said does not make it right for Ron and Toby Hale (and the other Emeralds and above who make most of their profit from tools) to distort the business model and lie about where they made most of their money by “conveniently” leaving out the tool profits they have made.”
Anyway — that’s really beside the point.
This weekend, I decided to take a poll and ask various people in various types of businesses if they felt they had a right to know how much money their business partners made in separate business ventures, and you know what — not a single person thought it was any of their business. Honestly, I’m still curious as to why you think it is any of yours. Are you a partner with Mr. Hale?? If you are, all you would need to do is call Ron and talk to him about it, and I’m sure he would be more than happy to discuss this issue with you.
Also, while we’re asking questions, I’d like to know what “sources” you have that lead you to believe that the Hales make “several time more from tools than A/Q??” I would probably be upset if it wasn’t truly laughable. You might want to check your “sources.”
Let’s just think about this one logically . . . the Hales make a small profit (and yes, it is small) from sales of BSMs (also noting they would not even be making this if they had not already built a HUGE A/Q business). Now, out of this “profit,” they’re shipping stuff to people, they’re paying to travel to do meetings for people and help their partners, they’re paying guest speakers (do you know how much people make for that??), they put on seminars and workshops to teach people about products (expenses for meeting space, people to run sound, set up & take down equipment, run security, etc), not to mention they’re paying employee salaries to handle BSM.
There is NO way that they’re making a large net profit on BSM after all those expenses. In fact, I happen to know (and just in case you’re wondering I guarantee my sources are better than yours - I’ve seen the paperwork) — sometimes, they even have losses on BSM.
Last, but not least, how is the business model distorted (see earlier quote)?? I watch Mr. Hale show the business model approximately once a week, and every time - he uses the official corporate averages to show where money comes from. People seeing the model for the first time are getting excited about THAT money — about the money made specifically from bonuses and commissions made from Quixtar. If Mr. Hale even mentions his own income, he gives info on a specific bonus he received from a specific date and for a specific amount. What in the world does that have to do with BSM and how is that unethical??
We show people the business model — if they are successful, make Q/A money, and invest that in other types of businesses (whether it be BSM type stuff or real estate, stocks, or whatever) - isn’t that just wonderful that we have helped someone not only be successful in this business opportunity but in others as well??
September 24th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Tex,
Numerous references is not backup. There are numerous references to Elvis still being alive but that does not make it true.
Your statements are so general and repetetive in nature that no one can take you seriously. I wish you would back up just some of what you say so I could think about considering some of it.
My leaders have not hidden the tool profit portion of the business from me. If that constitutes telling the truth, then yes they have. If there is a greater truth out there, please share it with us when you complete your mission Tex. When it comes to TEAM however, I think you will find yourself in Geraldo Rivera’s shoes.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Getting back to the subject of this post, here is Sceibeler’s own response to the newspaper article.
September 24th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
way to go NL. RON & TOBY COME TO OUR AREA (THEIR EXPENSE) AND SHOW THE BUSINESS PLAN IN OUR AREA AT LEAST ONCE A MONTH. THEY DO AN AWESOME JOB AND HELP ALL OF US INCREASE OUR QUIXTAR INCOME.!!!!!!!!!!! WHEN YOU KNOW RON & TOBY LIKE WE DO, WE HAVE TO FEEL SORRY FOR SOMEONE LIKE TEX WHO HAS TO STIR UP LIES BECAUSE HE IS MESSING WITH THE WRONG PEOPLE NOW. THE MAJORITY KNOW THE INTEGRITY OF THIS COUPLE AND ALSO KNOW THAT TEX HAS NO CLUE ABOUT THE TRUTH.
HEHEHEHEHHEHEEH
IM GLAD RON & TOBY ARENT ON THIS BLOG ANYMORE. THEY ARE MUCH TOO SMART TO BE PULLED INTO THIS GARBAGE. ME TOO.
September 24th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
NL #77,
Ron could have denied he made more from tools than Quixtar and provided some numbers, but he has been “absent” from the blog. Hello, Ron? Are you out there, Ron?
The problem is the tools is NOT a “separate business venture”, it is money we pay for training. It is the money that buys the goodies they display to us, implying the success came from Quixtar. It’s a lie, pure and simple. THAT’s why it is my business. You simply asked these people the wrong question. My upline claims me to be their business partner, so Ron is fair game as well. I have asked my upline and tool company office for the tool profit figures, and each of them dodged and refused to answer the question. Why isn’t Ron proud of his tool profit and why hasn’t he answered this question publicly?
There are direct statements by former Diamonds Bruce Anderson, Don Lorencz, and Andy Andrews. There are numerous lawsuits, which would make no sense if the tool profits were the minority source of profit, such as the Morrison group, Ken Stewart, Brig Hart, and the TIF group.
How do you know it is small? I paid for the shipping costs, they often travel in private airplanes and motorcoaches purchased with tool profits, does this sound ethical to you? I know how much outside guest speakers cost, I had no idea the IBO’s were also paid the high fees. They were always described to us as being there “out of the kindness of their hearts, and could be anywhere in the world on a beach, but decided to come and “help” our group”. What a crock. I believe all the expenses you mentioned are a small fraction of the overall profit created from tools, but nice try.
Your sources are better than actual former Diamonds and actual court cases? What a joke.
Ron doesn’t need you to defend him, he’s a big boy. Where are you, Ron?
Ron doesn’t mention the MASSOVE tool scam profit, that is how the business model is being distorted.
I don’t have an issue or need to know about his other businesses, real estate, stocks, etc., except if those things were financed with tool scam money. There is no difference with that and me robbing a bank, investing the money in the stock market and claiming what a great investor I am.
The other problem is while making the MASSIVE profits, you are similtaneously putting most of the same people you are claiming to help in debt.
I was midlead by the same lies you are trying to defend for a dozen years. Wake up and smell the rotten garbage you are being fed.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:00 pm
DLSChigago #78,
Are you denying TEAM has been in rules conflict for years? If so, I would gladly find and reference Quixtar court documents to the contrary. Do you realize how much trouble their court case would be in if they lied about these types of things? Read the Quixtar court documents, and let me know if you come up empty.
What did your upline tell you about tool profits? Please, do tell.
September 24th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Scheibeler update: http://www.amquix.info/scheibeler_defamation_suit_1.html
September 24th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
Administrator, your blog post has solicited comments about Eric Scheibeler.
You have allowed off-subject posts about tool profits, Ron/Toby Hale and TEAM.
But you refused to allow my post that reported Scheibeler own response to the newspaper article and your blog.
Is the company afraid of something?
September 24th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
MichMan: Hardly. We simply prefer that you link directly to the website rather than cut and paste articles in their entirety.
That said, thank you for the comment. As for your remark that off-topic comments have been allowed under the above post, our stated preference is that folks stay on topic. It’s a bit of a challenge, but people are starting to catch on, and we truly appreciate the increased level of cooperation.
September 25th, 2007 at 12:43 am
MichMan #83,
It should be noted Ron Hale brought up the tool profit topic first, and hasn’t been heard from since. Now, who is it that’s afraid?
September 25th, 2007 at 9:20 am
This will be my last comment on this blog, as I have better things to do than repeat myself and others.
Tex — I’ve never claimed that other IBOs do not make money on tool profits. Honestly, I have no clue what people in other “systems” charge or make. I am telling you that Ron Hale (the person you specifically accused in this blog) only makes a small profit from tools (if any), and on THAT specific issue - my source is better than yours b/c I don’t care what anyone has told you, until you have looked at the exact numbers, you do not know. And I have seen those numbers. The Hale tool profit (when they have one) is especially small in comparison with their Q/A profits.
Also, I believe you will find that Mr. Hale did answer your question about his profits in #62:
“We have always been transparent on where our incomes come from. At times there were some profits and often losses on Business Support Materials. We built an Amway/quixtar business not a tool business. Our lifestyle is supported by the Amway/Quixtar business.”
If you don’t believe him and consider yourself such a close business partner, then I continue to suggest that you stop whining and be productive and pick up the phone and call Mr. Hale. As he previously mentioned, people do not use real names on here, so for all we know - you’re some wacko who may not even be an IBO. His income (from any source) is not public info as he is not a publicly traded company. In the “real world” if you want to know your business partners income - you need to ask them. I would. That is not “blog” appropriate.
As for Mr. Hale not “blogging” - I’m sure he has better things to do. He made his statement, answered your question (as much as I’m sure he will on a blog), and likely has better things to do. In fact, in the five blogs I’ve posted, I’ve discovered that if most of us spent the same amount of time builing our business as we do gossiping on blogs, I’d say we’d be extremely successful.
To everyone else — I sincerely apologize for getting off topic. I just began reading the Scheibeler book and got sidetracked. I will not be posting again on here unless I have a related comment. Thanks for humoring me!
September 25th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
NL #87,
Do you have Ron’s phone number?
September 26th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Wow,
Haven’t been here in awhile.
Just a quick note for those in the discussion with TEX.
With the recent events that have unfolded regarding TEAM I have limited my discussion with Tex.
For those that want to further your discussion with him, there are a few things I feel you need to know.
Tex, is/was a part TEAM and their “leadership”.
Tex, has not, to my knowledge, had any significant business with regards to sponsoring(He has mentioned he had one couple for awhile).
Tex, has been on this anti-profit tool tirade since I have known him.(persistent and consistent)
Tex, has given some great insight into how TEAM operates its tools, opens, etc.
So, before you engage Tex, just know this information going in. He has a lot of anger, knowledge, and resourcefulness with regards to the tools in the TEAM LOS (please note, it is ONLY in TEAM where his knowledge lies, the rest is from assumptions based on dollar figures people are willing to give him).
This is a feel bad for TEX post. Dude, can handle his business/emotions just fine, usually.
Outside of the tools discussion, I have found him to be knowledgeable with products as well, and often gives good ideas with regards to products.
Just an FYI
September 26th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
Thanks Josh.
Sad, very sad.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:52 pm
What a laugh, Tex, asking for Ron Hale’s phone number. Ron Hale doesn’t have time to spend with losers like you. I noticed that you insist upon demanding that people answer your questions, but you refuse to answer questions put to you about your “business” and your line of sponsorship. You are indeed a coward and a most miserable person. Too bad you never took advantage of the “tools”. It might have made you a better person and helped you grow a group.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:08 am
Josh,
Here are a few things you should know:
I attended several TEAM opens and a seminar, not major functions. I was involved in another LOS that was absorbed into TEAM, so I also have experience with other tool systems besides TEAM. I have also studied tool prices of many other LOA’s, and found them to be very similar to TEAM and other previous LOA prices, and assume the profit to be similar as well.
Depends what you call “significant sponsoring”. We have had several IBO’s in our group in the past, but they quit faster than we could replace them. Sponsored about 20 personally (not in at the same time), largest size of group was about a dozen.
Thanks for the persistent and consistent comment about my “campaign” against the tool scam. I agree with you.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:27 am
DLSChicago #90,
You should be sad, very sad.
Mary Ann #91,
NL is the one who suggested I call Ron, and appears to know Ron. Not that I was expecting the information, I can’t even get with my own upline to get the tool profit question answered, although it is partially posted on the freetheibo site.
I would rather be a “loser” than a liar and coward.
That’s right, you don’t need to know about me, I’m not scamming anyone. I choose to remain anonymous for several reasons, one of them being I choose to represent all IBO’s, and do not want to be pidgeon-holed into a particular group and explained away as being from “…that group, we don’t do things like that in our group”.
I demand the truth. The lack of truth from our self-proclaimed “business partners” and “teammates” is astounding.
I am no different than how the Americans won the Revolutionary War against the British. They were outgunned and did not want a frontal assault, preferring to hide behind trees and rocks and take pot shots at the Redcoats. Worked for them, it’s working for me. I consider this smart, not cowardly.
Also, I am far from miserable. In fact, typing these words is quite a cathardic experience, so thank you very much.
Too bad you’re wrong about never taking advantage of the “tools”. If you read more of my posts, you would know I own well over 10,000 tapes/CD’s, hundreds of books, etc., purchased for pennies on the dollar. Many of the recordings are no longer copyright protected, so MP3’s will be made of these and placed online.
Once the tool scam is shut down and I can have confidence the business will have a better chance of survival, I will implement the new tool system. I’ll take care of making me and others better people, we won’t be looking for your “help”.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:29 am
Tex:
“they all quit faster than we could replace them”……says a lot about you Tex. Should have used the tools.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Mary Ann #94,
Are you smoking Mary Jane?
What happened to us is BECAUSE the tools were too expensive for most to afford and get the information.
Randy Haugen went on record saying the peak was 1995, and the groups have been imploding ever since. Same thing happened to our cross-line, who were also using the tools.
I used the tools, much to my chagrin now.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
Tex:
Yeah, yeah, it’s ALWAYS someone else’s fault for your miserable life. You hate the leaders, you hate Quixtar, you hate the tools. Just go, Tex.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:54 pm
Mary Ann #96,
I don’t have a miserable life. I hate the so-called leaders actions, I have also noted where I believe Quixtar has made some errors, but I don’t hate either one of them.
Why would I hate tools then buy about $100,000 worth of them (for pennies on the dollar)?
Breath deep on your Mary Jane, then relax. It will be okay. How Cheech doing, by the way?
January 17th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
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