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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
August 31st, 2007 @ 4:41 pm ET…
Texas
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
The three plaintiffs in Texas were ordered into arbitration with the company as part of a preliminary injunction issued by a court today outside Dallas.
Arbitration was fine with us. The facts remain on our side.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
August 31st, 2007 at 5:01 pm
Who got the preliminary injunction? That’s a pretty important fact that you left out. What are the details of the preliminary injunction?
August 31st, 2007 at 5:04 pm
As expected, our Justice system works.
I agree arbitration is the correct course of action.
Each side will present their case and the arbitrator will decide.
Due process of law.
Ros
August 31st, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Good catch Steve. My guess is the injunction was upheld against Quixtar, which could be considered a win for TEAM, but only because it was referred to arbitration, which is likely a much bigger win for Quixtar.
Correct, CorpComms?
August 31st, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Alright, I have been following this process pretty closely, I’m actually in the WWDB system so am not part of team…however. QUIXTAR/ALTICOR/AMWAY seriously you need to reconsider your tone and approach I am seriously fedup with the rude and inconsiderate way that you have been posting and responding to this situation.
This is a SAD deal, it isn’t good for anyone, mistakes were made on both sides, why do you have to act like jerks?
That doesn’t help your image, your rep, or anything else. To be honest, because of the way that you have responded to this situation (compared to the way that Team has responded) it really doesn’t matter to me who is right or wrong, your actions and tone of response are pathetic, and I refuse to connect my family’s future, fortune, and life to a company who responds like this.
Get it straight, wrong or right, TEAM is human beings, they have done good things, and I am sure they have done things wrong as well. PLEASE can you at least handle the situation with respect that would be expected from a corporate communications department??
August 31st, 2007 at 7:42 pm
Injunction was granted against Quixtar.
I am happy to go into arbitration if I break a rule but the court prohibited Quixtar from taking actions against me and the other plaintiffs such as suspension, threat of suspension or termination. The also prohibited Quixtar from interferring with my participation (and my downline) in the Team training system.
If there is an alleged rule violation in the future with me or the other plaintiffs it will not be required to go through the IBOAI dispute resolution process but will go straight to an arbitrator here in the Dallas area who I think is a retired federal judge.
Quixtar is right - the judge did decide in a preliminary injunction against Quixtar that if there is an alleged rules violation in the future by me or the other plaintiffs (there are none)it will be heard by an arbitrator.
This is great news!
August 31st, 2007 at 8:08 pm
Is this Quixtar arbitration, or another “brand” of arbitration? Do you have a copy of the preliminary injunction? I would rather it go to court, which is a much more open proceeding.
Steve #1,
Does anyone “get” a preliminary injunction?
Ros #2,
It’s a judicial system, not a justice system. Big difference. Just ask O.J.
August 31st, 2007 at 10:28 pm
James #4,
How much tool money does the typical WWDB Platinum and above make?
Ron #5,
Is it true Orrin and Chris quit the TEAM tool system? If so, why?
I’m glad you kept any rule violation outside the Quixtar arbitration system (although I still would have preferred a more open court proceeding). What was the basis for that, as you are still an IBO?
September 1st, 2007 at 12:03 am
Saw this on http://www.mlmleads.eu/page.cfm/id/9255
They talk a lot about stacking, and even mention “team” a few times, although apparently not in reference to Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward. He just happened to pick this convenient term for his group. I would expect similar measures in the U.S., and looking at these issues, TEAM will have a lot of remedial
training to do.
September 1st, 2007 at 12:21 am
Gentlemen -
Due to “fact” that the Texas judge has indicated arbitration (if warranted) will occur in Texas with arbitor of their selection (not a part of loaded Q* “Kangaroo Kourt”) - I would not be quite so smug … bit is becoming increasingly clearer that versions of “facts” espoused here leave reality frequently wanting.
September 1st, 2007 at 12:29 am
This message is for all my mighty pals out there who are serious about building a successful business powered by Quixtar/Amway. I have especially enjoyed many of the comments from “ibofightback” and “jthompson”. At the same time I was glad to here from “jthompson” on another blog that he is retiring from blogging soon. I need to do the same and get out into the marketplace. It’s been so exciting to follow the Team/Woodward vs. Quixtar battle that I’ve become like a couch potato TV watcher in front of my computer for the past few weeks. I’ve never visited a blog before Aug. 10th and now it’s almost an addiction to read this stuff. That’s not going to help position me to take advantage of the new money in the QBI and the massive explosion in on-line shopping. Thank you mates! I hope that you go out and register lots of new IBOs and sell lots of products. I believe the best way we can prove who is right is to go out really kick butt and create a bunch of success. Also, get plugged in tight with your up-line. They may be able to handle questions and concerns more effectively than blog administrators and fellow bloggers. For now on if I have the blog itch, I’ll check out some of the other non-TEAM-related material on Opportunity Zone.
God bless.
Aron
September 1st, 2007 at 3:42 am
I think the court that will decide both Quixtar and TEAM’s fate, will be the court of public opinion. For once, I agree with Tex. It’s a judicial syatem - not a justice system. But it’s the only system we’ve got. In a lot of other countries, there is no system.
Btw, check out the saveusdickdevos blog on blogspot. Now there’s a DeVos loyalist if I ever heard one!
September 1st, 2007 at 8:40 am
If I was TEAM, I would fight arbitration.
Here is what Federal Judge Richard E. Dorr had to say two years ago about Amway’s arbitration process:
“It is this Court’s opinion that the procedure utilized by Defendants to screen, train and ultimately hand-pick their panel of arbitrators does not come close to passing any reasonable test of fairness and neutrality required for a legitimate arbitration proceeding.”
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2005/09/judge_halts_quixtar_arbitration.php
September 1st, 2007 at 9:11 am
This is not exactly on topic, but it is BIG NEWS!!
“EX-AMWAY DISTRIBUTOR ADMITS LYING
Saturday, September 01, 2007BY JOHN BEAUGEFor The Patriot-News
WILLIAMSPORT - A former Amway Corp. distributor in Lycoming County admitted that he lied when he said he’d uncovered billions of dollars in consumer fraud with the company.
Eric N. Scheibeler made the acknowledgment Friday in a federal court filing to settle a defamation suit bought by Amway, now known in the U.S. as Quixtar.
Scheibeler states in a letter to an attorney for Amway and Quixtar that he falsely said he and his family were threatened, that he had been offered money in exchange for his silence and that Quixtar did something to his Web site.”
We always knew he was lying, but had to live under the cloud, anyway. Now we can BUST that MYTH!!
September 1st, 2007 at 11:01 am
Hopefully you all caught that the Federal Judge actually ordered a Federal Arbitrator (NOT THE AMWAY ARBITRATOR) to mediate any future rules violations. Sounds to me like the Judge has no confidence or trust in the Q/A arbitration system. Leave it to a Judge in the most INDEPENDENT state in the Union to bring some fairness and common sense to the process.
September 1st, 2007 at 11:07 am
Tex #6,
If you read the “T-R-O, nice T-R-Y” post and the “Clarification” post, you’ll see Alticor believes they “got” the preliminary injunction against TEAM. Therefore someone does have a more positive stance after the proceedng.
Also, since the arbitrator will not be a Quixtar/IBOAI arbitrator, they’re more likely to be objective than the “company-trained” arbitators we’ve heard about.
I believe its about time another party besides the courts was involved in weighing the merits of both sides of the argument.
September 1st, 2007 at 11:54 am
Hey Tex,
Finally you and I agree. The answers to your questions are:
1. No, it is not Quixtar arbitration.
2. Yes, it is a court ordered arbitration with a bona fide arbitrator who is not connected to either side.
That’s a good thing.
September 1st, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Tex:
Please see my response under TRO Nice TRY.
September 1st, 2007 at 8:54 pm
i’ve never heard of eric sheibeler… ?
September 2nd, 2007 at 12:27 am
I am very disappointed by the Quixtar, Alticor and now the IBOAI public relations stuff they’ve been sending.
Having been an amway distributor and now an IBO with Quixtar for ten years, it dismays me to see all this childish posting by the people who have the opportunity.
It is hard enough to overcome the survey question but now with all this tripe that has been served up, the googling, does not get any better.
Lots of doubt has been placed in my head, my upline and my team over the past weeks from all the negative stuff on official sites. Even if Downeast is not with TEAM, we all suffer from your bad manners.
Please clean up your act and behave responsibly.
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:01 am
DanO322 #16,
When have we ever disagreed?
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:09 am
YankeeIBO #13,
I have suspected this guy was a liar for some time. He traded e-mails with me up until the point I asked him how much money he made on tools. Then, the communication between us went silent.
Keep in mind that although he lied, and big time, it doesn’t mean everything he wrote was the opposite of the truth.
Also keep in mind he wasn’t sued by any IBO’s that he accused of making HUGE tool profits, only by the corporation, for issues completely unrelated to tool income.
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:26 am
I can’t tell you how sad I am to be involved in such a situation as we all find ourselves. We started our Amway business in 1994. While we were doing very well financially by anyone’s standards, we saw this business as a way to possibly help other family members and/or friends who were not doing so well. Also, since Ron traveled 70% of the time, we thought that perhaps he could slow down some. We also had in mind the future of our children who at the time of our registration were 12, 9, 2.
We didn’t know much about Amway. We joined because we trusted our friend who showed us the plan. Even then, he had to show it without saying the name Amway until it was time for us to sign on the dotted line because of the fear that we would be scared away. But by the time we signed we had already listened to enough tapes and believed what the people on there were saying that we wanted whatever they had.
So you see, our decision to join this business had nothing, I repeat nothing, to do with SA8 or Artistry or Double X. While we think those products are quality products and we were willing to pay the prices in order to build our business, they were not the reason we built it. Our decision to stay with Quixtar had nothing to do with the cool partner stores either. Although it helped that those stores took some attention away from it being “amway online”. Building our business was solely because of the way we saw the system building people. It was the way we felt when someone said, this business has changed my relationship with my husband/wife/kids. Believe me, it wasn’t the SA8 that did that. It was the system.
Finally, the reason we stayed with the business even though the money has never been enough to make us go out night after night, was for our son Daniel. Daniel is mildly autistic. This business (the people/system) gave him the only positive input and encouragement during his crucial teen and young adult years. He is now 22 years old and even with his severe learning differences and never having gone to college is able to understand more about people and business than most 22 year olds with a college degree.
It was not because I washed his clothes with SA8 or because he took Double X that made him know that delayed gratification is a good thing. Nor was it the fact that we only used Satinique or Body Series that gave him the confidence to write our state senator about his views on immigration. It was listening to his dad and mom and watching and hearing other people’s comments on CD’s. It was listening to Randy, Don, Orrin and Chris and so many others tell their funny stories about building the business, having fun, making money and making a difference. It was watching us help young couples with their money problems or marriage issues. It was meeting people from different walks of life that he never would have met without the system teaching him how to relate to others. It was having the confidence to walk across his high school graduation stage saying that he was going to the “University of Success” which meant our system.
I know you’ll never understand all of this if you’ve never built the business and had to beat down the “Amway” comments. It didn’t take us long to figure out that if we could just get that new couple plugged into the system, we had a greater chance of creating a loyal IBO; loyal to the products,yes but more than that loyal to themselves. We had the chance to help change people from the inside out. With our Sunday services at every Major Function, we’ve seen more people come to know the Lord (relatively speaking) than we have in our 40 + years of being involved in evangelical Christian Churches (nothing against churches).
You can take away our IBO number, but you will never take away the eternal changes that have happened in our lives because of the system. I will be forever grateful for our decision to build the business for that reason alone. I’m sorry you can’t understand that.
Still Going to a million people!
Lisa
September 2nd, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Suggested reading:
http://media.alticorblogs.com/2007/08/10/just-go-team/comment-page-11/#comments
Big Apple’s comments #1015, #1016, #1017
September 2nd, 2007 at 2:03 pm
just who is running quixtar/ AMWAY. I did not sign up for Amway. I believe there are a bunch of idiots running it and they have ruined my business. I started in 1999.
September 2nd, 2007 at 3:10 pm
Prices are still to high no matter what any fancy lawyers say…and the fact remains that Quixtar/Amway has claimed away my independence in being and IBO and instead make comments like “people are their property.” They dissolved the IBOA board which means no more representation for us. Dick Devos if you are listening…i am not sure if you know what is going on with your beloved company but you can really step up and be a hero here. You can help Quixtar/Amway represent what it used to be…FREE ENTERPRISE.
September 2nd, 2007 at 6:31 pm
1. Hey Tex and Jthompson,
I see all your posts against Orrin and Chris as well as your responses to absolutely everybody elses posts that are slanted toward the TEAM point of view and I cant help but ask myself why?
You said your not part of TEAM and your not paid by Quixtar/Amway/Alticor. So then, if your not part of Team and not paid by Quixtar, then how in the world does this situation even affect you? Furthermore, why does it bring out such vitriol? It makes no sense.
I have tried hard to figure it out. I thought maybe y’all were just defenders of corporate giants as a matter of principle, sorta like a concerned conservatives. But that makes no sense either, because you can’t be a concerned conservative and fighting against free enterprise unless of course you’re bi-polar… (intended as a joke not a personal attack)
Then I thought maybe its just a hobby? But certainly you possess far to much intelect to waste your time at a computer attacking so many other people your don’t even know. There has to be a reason.
Then it dawned on me… maybe your not being paid by Q/A/A but have been hired by some third party. Then you could legitimately say that your not paid by Q/A.
Well if thats it, then enjoy your work, but at least let people know the truth behind your situation. Bill Clinton was one of the best politicians ever, but will go down as one of the worst presidents because of his lack of character and the fact that he tried to spin his way out of everything. Y’all are obviously no dummies, (maybe misinformed) so why not learn from his mistake.
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:40 pm
Lisa / Liberty Rose #22
Thank you for your insight and comments.
I have know you since you were platinum ( over 10 years now ) . Both you and Ron have run your business with integrity and class.
My wife and I really enjoyed spending some time with Daniel in St George. He is truly as much of a blessing to us as the system is to him.
All of us with Legacy ( Now Team ) appreciate you letting us “borrow” Ron the last few years.
He is a man of character and I have enjoyed his wisdom as well as his friendship.
Everything rises and falls with leadership and it is becoming crystal clear to me where the true leadership is!
God Bless you both,
Jefe
September 2nd, 2007 at 9:16 pm
What is great about Amway Business.
22, Liberty Rose Says:
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:26 am
Lisa, agreed 100%. For many ibos like you and me, sunday morning, the friends and mentorship, and the “system/team” is what makes this business great. Its the PEOPLE, not the PRODUCTS that moves us emotionally.
Now understand - you can’t completely separate Amway Corp from the ibo teams/systems b/c RICH and JAY were/are IBOs/distributors.
The evolution/influence of ibo teams/culture started with Rich and Jay and filter down to Dexter and your LOS… until it reached people like Orrin.
It appears, Orrin may have build a system and network of people that are cool and have positively impacted lives… and he also has misrepresented the business to his new people… about who Quixtar is and what is the relationship.
But the big thing is that Orrin appears to have called Amway an illegal pyramid and has tried to bring massive negative attention to AMway Corp b/c of his own selfish agenda of wanting to get away and do his own thing.
“You can take away our IBO number”
According to Orrin and freethibo… all the “mighty 8″ RESIGNED.
Amway should have terminated Orrin a long time ago but Orrin say he resigned.
Fear of Amway is created by spending too much time at freetheibo forum and ASHTON partners who has been hired to POSITION information to make TEAM look good and Amway look bad.
Btw, the reason you have witnessed more people be saved in a “business” than at church is… b/c American Christians (most, not all) have become lazy and selfish…. going to church to hear the latest doctrine and get the latest revelation when millions are starving w/o a first revelation.
Finally i became fed up… found some resources by renowned soulwinners like Billy Graham, Bill Bright & CCCI, D.L. Moody, T.L. Osborn (”Soulwinning” book) and many others… and decided I can win more people than most churches also by myself
September 2nd, 2007 at 11:49 pm
Liberty Rose #22,
You’ve been misled. This is a business. The other things you mentioned are the tail, not the dog. The tail is wagging your dog.
September 3rd, 2007 at 8:34 am
Liberty Rose:
You are absolutely right on. What you described is exactly what I joined. How many people see the plan and are on the fence untill they experience some part of the system that touches them personally. So many critics out there just don’t understand there would have never been an Amway, Quixtar, or Alticor, without the system, which has always been the real business. I would guess that more than 90% of what’s left of this business could be traced back to DY 60. How tragic when people don’t get this.
Tex:
Haven’t seen any info on Orrin’s resignation from TEAM anywhere other than Ron’s post. If true, it’s just some kind of legal thing but I wouldn’t be surprised to see that it was a typo that should have said from Q. PDF was supposed to be posted two days ago which makes me suspicious since leaving it as is raises questions unanswered which of course always leads to doubt and confusion. There seems to be so much non disclosure going on on both sides. I just know the moderator is going to answer either you or I on the tool profits question any second…
September 3rd, 2007 at 10:24 am
For those that don’t quit know what it takes to get a preliminary injunction, here here it is. I welcome comments…
1. That there is a substantial likelihood of success on the merits of the case,
2. That they face a substantial threat of irreparable damage or injury if the injunction is not granted,
3. That the balance of harms weighs in favor of the party seeking the preliminary injunction
4. That the grant of an injunction would not disserve the public interest.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preliminary_injunction
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:32 am
So, Tex, you sound like a broken record…so I am not going to get stuck in this…however; This one time: I’m not sure how much WWDB Platinums make with tool money/our Premier Membership Program, I know that they make some. It makes sense to me to believe what has been told that the corporation has banned talking about tool profits, so I don’t know. However, I have no problem with making money from tools as well.
I have purchased books, cds, etc. from people like John Maxwell, Zig Ziglar, and other success teachers. I have attended their meetings and seminars. Most teachers like that have monthly CD series that they send out monthly. I would normally pay as much or more for their material then WWDB SOT or functions…making money from training is fine by me.
I mentioned WWDB solely for the purpose of letting the blog authors know where I was coming from. I’m not currently getting SOT, etc. but that is because I view it currently as another training source, and if I am not going to build this business currently (as I stated in my previous post) then I will invest my money in more general training instead.
September 3rd, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Aron #10
Hooyah! that means sweeeeet!!! for all of you in Rio Linda.
Liberty Rose #22
The “System” that you are so proud to be apart of wouldn’t exist without Amway or its products amway purchased the nutrilite distribution network (system) 50 years ago. Amway is not in business to make people happy they are in business to make money, happiness is a by-product of making money because it gives us options.
September 3rd, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Here’s a note from my daughter in response to #22 Liberty Rose under Texas, she can totally relate to Daniel and being raised in a system that focuses on building people up.
I am fourteen years old and have been raised in the Amway/Quixtar business. My parents have been building their own business for over twenty years and were able to walk away from their jobs before my sister and I were even born. Over the past few years, I have really been able to understand the business and its purpose. I finally understood that my parents aren’t only in a business for themselves but more importantly for helping others.
I am very outgoing and I have never been excited about explaining to my friends about the products (since they had never seen them before) but I love telling them about the ways my parents are helping other people. I love being around the people in the TEAM business and love telling my friends about them. I know that the books, tapes, CD’s, and the all the functions I go to, have put me way ahead of people my own age. Just being around the people and hearing all the stories has changed my life. The people in my parents business have always encouraged me in school and sports. Our family has always been a positive and uplifting environment, because of the books my parents read, CDs they listen to, and the people they hang out with in the business. Leaders like the Wilson’s, Haugen’s, Sims, Brady’s, and Woodward’s have a very positive influence on all of us. When the TEAM DVD’s come in the mail I sit on the couch and watch them with my dad. I know that our family has a chance of a lifetime.
When I found out about the problems between TEAM and Quixtar/Amway, I was very upset. I know that the business wasn’t labeled great because of the wonderful products that we all use, but the whole reason behind the business: HELPING PEOPLE! I know that when I leave my footprint in this world, I want people to remember me: I was involved with a great group of people in a business like TEAM that wasn’t self-centered but was totally focused on helping people achieve their dreams while achieving yours. If my family is building the business just for ourselves, it is so totally not worth it, but I truly know we are not.
We need to hang on and help each other over come this “bump” in the road and help achieve our business goals. We are going to a million people and in the process; we are going to leave our footprint in this world!
God bless,
Cowgirl
September 3rd, 2007 at 10:17 pm
makingadifference: PDF is coming as soon as we get one ourselves. The weekend, Labor Day here in the States…we’ll try for Tuesday.
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:43 pm
James #32,
The broken record will continue to repeat itself until answers are forthcoming. The tool profit issue has been THE major problem facing this business, and we must get transparency regarding this issue, or the business reputation will continue to worsen.
This is much like not being aware of gravity, never hearing of gravity, not believing in gravity, etc. None of those matter, because if you jump off a building you will go splat, regardless of your opinion on gravity.
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:46 pm
Administrator #35,
Any estimate on when the tool disclosure issue will be answered?
September 4th, 2007 at 5:16 am
Tex #29:
Liberty Rose has it exactly right. Not only is she not misled, but she has described who Orrin, Chris, Don, Randy, Chuck, and the others are, and always have been to a Tee. Not telling someone what you are being gagged from telling them is not misleading them. I’ve never heard one person say any of these men lied to them, ever. If you know of someone who claims this, they are lying I can assure you. Everything Chuck stated in his post is true, some of it I heard for myself. Also, none of the men who resigned on the 9th of August have said one single defamatory or negative thing about anyone that I know of, including the coropoartion or it’s upper management or legal team. There has been no “Just Go Quixtar” from these fine Godly men. And the question begs itself, why has Q responded like they have (thank God predictably, you’ll be seeing the meaning of that within a few weeks or months), if the allegations in the lawsuit are untrue? Does this seem like a very smart strategy for the remaining IBOs? Oh yes, there is much more going on behind the scenes than any of us can see on a blog, and I hear that so far none of it is a surprise, except on Qs part where they have been unsuccessful in trying to pull Orrin and the rest into a nasty PR war, and unsuccessful in finding any evidence of intent to start a competing mlm. Let’s just say that all the nastiness among those actually involved in the litigation has been pretty one sided so far, and that will be undeniable on the 12th, and will be a huge factor.
In a couple weeks we will have proper perspective on what happened. Those led to believe that Orrin and the rest stormed into their meeting on the 9th with a lawsuit in one hand and a clenched fist in the other, making unreasonable demands, will be shocked to find out that Orrin and the rest simply were there to discuss allowing IBOs the choice about whether they wanted to continue with the new changes, and that Q terminated them without discussion, certainly without proper arbitration according to their own rules and were soon sending threatening emails to IBOs who were not part of the suit. Orrin hasn’t done a single thing to coerce anyone to leave Q, join him or anything else, but Q has made it very clear that we are all their property. For those who enjoy the spin there’s still plenty to time for that. There’s still a gag order, it will take more than one day in court to have all the official press releases that reveal what the court has discovered. But the truth is going to come out, and sooner than those of you who misguidedly think Qs legal team will be successful in dragging this out for very long (oh, how I wish I could elaborate on that one!) Shughart, Thomson, and Kilroy have played this game many times before, with successes and losses on both sides, but, man is this ever a unique case, and Q knows it.
The bottom line is, when the smoke clears, the publicity is not going to be good for Q. The worst that can happen to TEAM is a six month wait on our way to a million. And can you imagine someday someone learning from all this and starting a business where there’s absolute transparency from day one for prospects, the press, or whoever? And what if the people who build the bus. also own it, and control the direction it takes based on actual field knowledge and experince? And hey, once I resign, I’m going to be willing to confer with you through phone or face to face because there is much I cannot tell you now but will be able to then. Will you be willing to do that? I notice you are all over every blog that has anything to do with this bus. so you won’t be hard to find. I’ve read a lot of your stuff, and man, are some of your premises misguided. I can understand why, and I’d probably feel the same way looking through your eyes. When I still felt good about talking to prospects about Q, and they would tell me a story about “they was in that thing, and…”, or” my dad did that and…” I would look them in the eye and say “who was your upline diamond, what side of the refridgerator does he keep the milk on, and what are the birthdays of all of his kids?, because if you can’t answer that question you don’t know a thing about this bus.” That’s what’s missing in your perspective Tex, and I have had that perspective for some time. Administrator #35 says the PDF from Ron Simmons is coming by Tuesday. Strange thing though, not a word about that tool question or 3.4% of sales question.
September 4th, 2007 at 5:43 am
#34 Cowgirl’s Mom said: “We need to hang on and help each other over come this “bump” in the road and help achieve our business goals.”
Business goals. That’s the key. Business goals implies making money. The problem is that if people aren’t making money, if they don’t see results, they will never see the “bigger picture” that this business has to offer.
Oh, they may see glimpses of it, but they will fade away because they won’t believe it for themselves because their Upline spends too much time selling the BIG dream, rather than teaching them how to make a few bucks retailing at first.
And so if they don’t believe in the Comp Plan (since they aren’t making any money), how likely are they to go and show the Plan?
Nothing to duplicate and fear to duplicate.
This business is the products AND the Plan. The Plan, the ability to duplicate, THAT is what is so amazing.
The business has a reputation of “no one makes any money.” This is not a good reputation for a business to have. Wouldn’t you agree?
The ability to sell a product and to duplicate yourself is what makes the money. And the money is what buys you options. Whether you want “stuff” or want to buy your time back–or both.
But if you have nothing worth duplicating, then you won’t make any money. And if you are not making any money then most people will not stick around long enough to see that this IS more than just a product business. Much more.
So TEAM’s solution is to stack people for them? How does THAT empower people? That’s cutting the cocoon open and the caterpillar’s undeveloped wings will drag on the ground behind him and he will never be the butterfly he was intended to be…
September 4th, 2007 at 11:57 am
Bridget #39,
You are right in one area, people need to make money even a little at the beginning to get to a point to see the big picture. THAT is what Team is fighting for…lower prices! If prices were lower, retailing would be easier and people would make money quicker. Please read the lawsuit and think before you post.
You are wrong in the thought that Team Depth building (its NOT stacking) is similar to cutting a cocoon open. Since you obviously have never built the business let me explain some things. First if you are building 6-4-2 or 9-6-3 the goal is to get 6 or 9 wide as quickly as possible. When you are 9 wide you are trying to get those 9 people to sponsor their front line of 6 to 9 as well. Of the 9 people in your front line, 1-3 will start building the business (contacting, stp, etc.). What ends up happening is that you spend your time with the ones doing something and the rest fade away because they see no results. Statistically 3 out of 15 will do something with the business when building in a 9-6-3 or 6-4-2 style. NOT good to have 12 people now negative about the business. The 12 people may have gotten a 3% check but that is the extent.
Now with Team Depth Building, you are able to put those 9 people all in a leg and you still work with the 3 that want to build it right then BUT ALL 9 benefit and get some form of a check, 3% to start but grows thanks to help from others in the leg. As you help the 3 build their businesses the others not currently building (contacting, stp, etc.) see their “rebate” check increase (up to 25%) as they purchase for their own consumption or minor retailing…if they can retail.
These people are in an apprentice line where they can take the time to learn and understand the business BUT not be penalized by having zero results after a year and quitting. Retention rates are much higher with Team Depth than 9-6-3 and so fewer people are leaving with negative views. For these reasons more organizations (not just TEAM) are building in Team Depth fashion…it works.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Mr Moderator,
I appreciate your censorship on post number 26. OK not really… but in all fairness when you are going to censor, at least be fair minded enough to let people know that you censored the post and your reasoning behind it.
It’s called freedom of speech!
September 4th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Bridget, funny you’d criticize one of the fastest growing groups in Quixtar. We had a unique opportunity building without and with TEAM. I’d pick the TEAM way hands down! We tried building the business 9,4,2 with a 300 PV circle for each IBO. All we did was replace people because they got discouraged and quit year in and year out. When only 3 out of 12 sponsored IBOs stick around, the other 9 will just spread the “that doesn’t work” attitude stealing others dreams. Then, we were introduced to TEAM. How exciting for us to work together to build strong teams. To have your support team working in your business so you could work on becoming profitable. Everyone succeeded! But, then again, I guess you’d complain if your support team worked in your business, and sponsored people for you? I’d like to tell you, that the TEAM way is not something for nothing. It’s just something instead of promises and getting nothing. You wouldn’t know unless you had the privilege to experiencing the magic of the TEAM culture.
September 4th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Please explain to me how a corporation (Amway/Quixtar) finds a new IBO? The only way a new ibo is sponsored is by an ibo. that ibo is not trained by sa8 detergent, loc, xs, or any other product. that ibo is trained by the system of education and that is who finds the ibo. the “sacred” los that quixtar is fighting for doesn’t belong to them! they want to buy another g-5 on the sweat equity and contacts of TRUE LEADERS, not the work of the 2nd generation billionaires that are running the PRODUCT PORTAL(and nothing more than that). those ibos are brought in by people that have relationships with other people. please tell me which product does that. there are thousands of companies that would like volume from any group of loyal buyers. WHICH PRDUCT BUILDS COMMUNITIES? I’ll answer the easy ones, NONE. the los belongs to the people that built it. what everyone seems to be missing is that quixtar has already lost the business, TEAM is leaving. maybe they should be figuring out how to replace the business rather than continue to fight for what they have already lost. oh yeah that’s right, outside of TEAM(that group that builds the business wrong and needs to be retrained) they haven’t been able to grow in 4 years. unfortunately we know that the facts don’t count. we’ll have to see what the judge says. SEE YA QUIXTAR!!!!
September 4th, 2007 at 8:07 pm
What???!!! No mention of today’s ruling in TEXAS?
September 4th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Folks: While the PDF is a’coming, you may be able to find it elsewhere.
September 4th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
Tex -
If you’re waiting for Corp to VOLUNTARILY address that issue, your answer will occur later. At the moment, I believe they’re preparing to make some modifications to these blogs, and sending out some additional information to several hundred thousand IBOs …
September 4th, 2007 at 11:27 pm
#40 Steve said, “Since you obviously have never built the business let me explain some things.”
Obviously? Perhaps looking at my comments on other threads here at Aliticor Media Blog, as well as all the blogs over at Opportunity Zone would be a good thing to do before you make assumptions.
It might be smart to do your homework before addressing a person specifically. I’ve learned that the hard way.
#42 Shannon in CA said, “funny you’d criticize one of the fastest growing groups in Quixtar.”
I address this POOTA stat (plucked out of thin air) on another tread. Comment #279
http://media.alticorblogs.com/2007/08/24/order-from-the-court/#comments
“We tried building the business 9,4,2 with a 300 PV circle for each IBO.”
9-4-2….6-3…6-4-2…24-96-14…1,000-47…12-56-89-2
Were those 300 PV circles to be filled by your personal use? Or were they to be filled by your personal use as well as sales you made to customers?
September 5th, 2007 at 1:02 am
Sensorship lives even here at amway/alticor!!
September 5th, 2007 at 5:10 am
Bridgette 39
Obviously you don’t know how the mentoring process or The Teams depth building works. In the standard 9-6-3 the new IBO immediately starts sponsoring people who look to her for answers. It is possible a new IBO could sponsor say 6 people in a couple of weeks and not have a clue on how to build this business. Eventually, many, most will drop out and need to be replaced. In the depth approach there is always an experienced leader engaged with the new IBO. If someone joins The Team and are not ready to build the business they still benefit from the efforts of the experienced leader in the form of a growing rebate. Hopefully, you will see that The Team produces quicker results, long lasting IBO’s, and a more enjoyable business experience for everyone.
September 5th, 2007 at 5:13 am
Where’s yesterdays Texas ruling??? Waiting for the PDF??? All the other rulings posted immediately? I’m waiting on the immature, trash talking, spin doctor response this blog is so famous for!!
September 5th, 2007 at 5:48 am
THIS JUST IN:
COURT ORDER GRANTED IN TEXAS TODAY AGAINST QUIXTAR. PLEASE POST. CAN BE VIEWED AT THE IBO REBELLION WEBSITE.
September 5th, 2007 at 6:45 am
wow this probably stings a little. I guess I will be getting an appology email pretty soon.
http://theiborebellion.googlepages.com/TeamTRO1TEXAS.pdf
that Texas court order sounds rough.
September 5th, 2007 at 8:37 am
This is info for the people that like to find fault and point a finger at other people. (I can relate to this group because that is how I was [for over 20 years] but I am trying hard to change.) I was a warranty manager for a large home builder. I inspected the new homes with the building supervisor, sails agent and then the homeowner. If I missed anything that was wrong with the home before the house was sold to the homeowner, I had to fix it (on salary) If something went wrong after hours - weekends or holidays, the problem was mine problem. I got very picky and critical of people that did not do thing correctly. I forgot about all the good things that people did and looked at only the bad. I did not realize that I was also doing this to my wife and children.
If you live the life of a critic, old age is a very lonely place.
Please do not focus on the bad, take time to look at the good.
Take time to say thank you and please forgive me
Remember; what you focus on will determine your future. You can focus on all the bad and go nowhere or focus on your Dream; work hard, be committed, learn from (yours and there people’s) mistakes and go forward with your life.
Pa
PS 22 Liberty Rose
Thank you
September 5th, 2007 at 9:52 am
Wednesday, September 5, 2007
TEXAS SIZED VICTORY FOR TEAM
On Tuesday, September 4th a Texas judge issued a TRO against Quixtar. The
order bars Quixtar from a myriad of destructive and undermining activities
they have engaged in. Quixtar is required to remove any and all items that
disparage TEAM, its IBO’s, it’s training system, and it methods from its
Alticor Media Blog. This order also covered any of the other sites Quixtar
has it’s hand in. Quixtar has also been ordered to send an email to every
IBO in North America, informing them of this order. Quixtar has 24 hours
after being served with this order to comply.
TEMPORARY , MAYBE …TEETH IN IT ? OH YEAH !
September 5th, 2007 at 10:06 am
FACTS - LET’S LOOK AT THE FACTS WITH OUT ALL THE FLUFF AND BITTER COMMENTS.
-Quixtar does not want anything to do with Team
-Team does not want anything to do with Quixtar
-Quixtar believes products build the teams
-Team believes the educational training system builds the individual
-Quixtar wants to own/control the IBO with rules and regulations.
-Team wants to build the individual into leaders
-Quixtar wants to attack individuals in conflict
-Team wants to address the issus of the conflict.
-Quixtar wants to stay where they are and protect what they have.
-Team wants to be progressive and continue to improve themselves.
From what I can tell the facts show two very different organizations. Being in business for over 30 years it seems simple. When you have customers who no longer wish to associate with your organization, tell them thank you for your past business and wish them good luck. It is bad business to continue to make a public display so ugly that it affects your remaining business.
September 5th, 2007 at 10:08 am
Didn’t the court order in Texas give you 24hrs to remove all negative comments about Team from your sites? Running a little late are we? I would consider the “Just Go, Team” and several of the other “official” posts by Alticor to be negative at best.
September 5th, 2007 at 10:49 am
Quixtar/Amway/Alticor…Where is the email, I am waiting on your email saying you were ordered by the court to remove all your unprofessional, slandering blogs.
September 5th, 2007 at 11:15 am
TEAM vs Quixtar: A win for TEAM in Texas
My take - getting the disgraceful posts by the Alticor blogger taken down isn’t only a win for TEAM - it’s a win for all IBOs and the corp.
September 5th, 2007 at 11:16 am
#55 In2Win:
Good post!
September 5th, 2007 at 11:34 am
55 In2Win Says:
September 5th, 2007 at 10:06 am
I like the structure of this… seeking the facts.
You may want to go to the dictionary and learn the difference btwn facts and opinions and then write this again.
I bet you have received your “facts” from freetheibo web forum.
ex:
“Quixtar wants to own/control the IBO with rules and regulations.
-Team wants to build the individual into leaders”
This an opinion about Quixtar.. as are your other statements. Quixtar has to abide by the rules and regulations of the Federal Trade Commission and other organizations.
Quixtar/Amway is the only Corporation in the last 50 years to have a father/son be the CHAIRMAN of the UNITED STATE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.
I think Devos/VanAndel have more Business Credibility than Orrin/Brady.
By the way… with the way Amway is structured… Devos/VanAndel are the UPLINE of team ibos…. quit making them out to be enemies and Corporate Idiots.
Amway was started by Nutrilite Distributors and is still run by Devos/VanAndel.
TEAM has apparently educated their people very little about Amway, its founders, leaders, structure…. so its very easy for them to lie about Amway.
September 5th, 2007 at 11:39 am
51 makingadifference Says:
September 5th, 2007 at 5:48 am
Temporary Restraining Order. You still so desperate TEAM that you count this as “Major Victory”. I thought TEAM has great educational system…
Temporary = Temporary.
TRO do not mean/say Quixtar is an illegal pyramid. At best it means Q/A can’t terminate a certain TEAM ibo for two weeks until a Judge can hear the whole story.
TEAM celebrating TROs shows how desperate they are right now.
I still can’t find the Aug24 court decision on freetheibo site. The site was created to track info about “TEAM/Woodward,etc.. VS Quixtar” lawsuit…. yet the most important piece of info has yet to make it to their website yet (what the Judge in Court said after hearing both sides)
September 5th, 2007 at 11:58 am
10
Aron Gannon Says:
September 1st, 2007 at 12:29 am
I am glad you are going to go out and “kick your own butt” and get away from the computer and go help people. Show the Plan, Sell the Products, Stuff the Pockets! (yes i have listened to OLD tapes)
Aron, I have to wait until december07 to become a q/a ibo again so i figure i can help may mates a tad online.
Aug 10 or 15… whenever it was… was my first time blogging in my entire life as well. I have also stayed on too long.
I met a TEAM ibo who has invited my to a TEAM meeting (i guess like an Open meeting) in my local area in Texas. I plan to attend, blog rest of the week… and then i may stop completely.
At the TEAM meeting I expect to have fun, be entertained (i expect TEAM has good speakers) and hang out with TEAM ibos who i expect will be very cool people. I also believe i will get a better idea of how TEAM represents or misrepresents their Quixtar business. I promise to be respectful at the meeting.
September 5th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
Hmm … TRO seems to have been issued ex parte. Extremely unusual for a TRO to require action by the defendent, rather than cease and desist, and even more unusual when issued ex parte. I wouldn’t be surprised to see this one rapidly overturned, as much as I’d like to see these Alticor posts removed.
September 5th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
Oh, BTW, I just saw that TEAM’s non-compete in its contracts for the tools business is 1 year.
Yes, twice as long as the one from Q….
September 5th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Another one: Lets keep score properly:
Q’s 3 are all injunctions. Team’s 12 are all TRO’s. (TEMPORARY restraining orders, awaiting a judge’s review of the facts for a final decision.)
So it’s more like 3-0 ahead, with 12 games to play. And from a preliminary (very preliminary) reading of Q’s reply in California, it seems that the LAW prevents the California case from proceeding, as there is a prior case in Michigan, or something to that effect.
And strangely, Michigan TEAM, is sueing a Michigan Corporation, following Michigan law, in California!
Only in America.
September 5th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
To Those of you wondering why you cannot get a direct answer to tool profit, it is prohibited by Quixtar!!!! Stop making it an issue.
September 5th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
jthompson Says # 28
“Finally i became fed up… FOUND SOME RESOURCES by renowned soulwinners…and decided I can win more people than most churches also by myself.
(Caps added by rico for emphasis)
Hmmmm…so you have tools that helped you realize that you can have greater soul winning impact than most churches. Now — you not only capable of accurate assessment on TEAM, Orrin, etc, but now — you sit in judgement of “most churches”.
My; my; my! Do you have any idea how arrogant that sounded?
“Criticism is an indirect form of self-boasting” - Emmett Fox
Given the existing circumstance, what is the solution? Not what did Orrin do wrong;what did the TEAM do wrong; how is some blogger wrong?
What is the solution now? Wait for the lawsuit? Settle early? What would Billy Graham, Moody, and Osborn, give as counsel to Quixtar, to Orrin, the attorneys, etc?
Ralph Waldo Emerson said, “Criticism should not be querulous and wasting, all knife and root-puller, but guiding, instructive, inspiring”
I know what the root-puller view is, what is your inspiring vision for a resolution?
September 5th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
Bridgette,
If you’d like to find out about TEAM and how we build our business, I’ve found an informative, non-partial site, wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEAM_%28company%29
They’ve said: “It should be noted that the TEAM approach was approved my Quixtar and they have been one of the fastest growing groups for the past 8 years.”
9-4-2 you ask? it means 9 wide, then help them get 4, then help them get 2 and you’re platinum basically. I’m surprised you aren’t familiar with this structure.
The 300 PV was for personal consumption and for customers too. But does it matter? Very few if any duplicated this.
Anyway, who cares if what TEAM is doing is wrong in your opinion. We just want to leave and let you build your little happy product businesses. Which we soon will. Whether if it’s 6 months or 60 days, I’ll be doing what I want to do and you’ll be doing what you want to do. Just don’t critize when you have no clue about what we do.
September 5th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
so where’s the update here?? Didn’t Quixtar just get spanked in Texas today?
The PDF from the ruling will be mailed out to all quixtar IBOs within 24 hours of when it was released.
September 5th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
Tex,
Are you going to answer #26? …or “spin” away from that question?
September 5th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
You know this all could be over right now if the company would just allow the TEAM folks to move on in a peaceful way.. That is what they wanted from the start,(to go in peace).. sound familiar???
September 5th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
Still no PDF?? This looks like a Quixtar cover up! Maybe Q finally remembered the golden rule…If you can”t say something nice…Don’t say anything at all!!
September 5th, 2007 at 11:44 pm
#68 Sharon,
I just read through the Wikipedia article you linked, and it’s nothing more than a cleverly written screed promoting TEAM. “Order Consolidation Site”??? Quixtar only provides the Content and Commerce? If you look at the history of the Alticor companies, the whole “Community” building model was originated by Jay Van Andel and Rich DeVos, who improved on a model started by California Vitamins, the predecessor to Nutrilite. The “3 C’s” model Orrin et al. was appropriated from Michael Dell… it’s descriptive of the process, to be sure, but fails to properly credit Quixtar. The LOA’s, of which TEAM is one of many, were CREATED in the first place by Jay and Rich!!!
Someone has very cleverly put that Wiki article up as a place to send new prospects for so called “neutral” information… very interesting how it appears to even-handedly bring up and discuss “criticisms” and then demolish them and explain them away — always in a manner designed to benefit TEAM.
Who did you think you were kidding?!!! Is this another creation of Ashton Partners PR firm?
September 5th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
Sharon #68 — on further inspection I note that the TEAM “article” on Wikipedia has been “tagged” only since August 2007… would you agree that this article was designed and written by Ashton Partners as part of their PR set up around the legal situation, on behalf of Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady, et al.? So you’re abusing the neutrality of Wikipedia… will be interesting to see how long until a “content disputed” notice goes up on it!!!!
September 5th, 2007 at 11:53 pm
Reading from the court records of Ron Simmons hearing the judge ruled amoung other things that Quixtar could not in:
“#4. Disparaging the Team approach as used by Plaintiffs;”
Does that include some of Alticor’s blog postings? (Not the bloggers, but the companies introductory statements.) Are they in compliance with the injunction?
September 5th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Sharon #68… one more comment… will we see TEAM’s legal team citing this “neutral” site in their legal presentation on Sept. 12 in California, as a objective source of reliable, third-party information??? Have they been citing it already in the locations where TEAM has been granted TRO’s???
September 6th, 2007 at 12:16 am
What has Quixtar really lost?
-Millions of dollars in revenue
-The Governors seat at the next election
-10’s of thousands of IBOs
-40% of their market share
-Credibility
-Integrity
-100’s of thousands of IBOs long term (1 million or better to be exact)
-The only organization that was growing accross the board
-Belief from IBOs that this is a leadership team that they can follow without changing the rules as they seem fit
-Respect
-Did I mention the Governors Seat?
-THEIR FUTURE AS A COMPANY IN THE US-
OOPS
September 6th, 2007 at 12:22 am
Sharon #68… ooops, sorry, I should have looked a little closer before writing the second last post. It looks like you guys have had this Wikipedia article up since about May 7, 2007. (Correct me if I’ve got the date wrong.) How long before that were you planning it? As far back as your plans to leave Quixtar?
September 6th, 2007 at 12:54 am
#49 Quixkicked said, “Obviously you don’t know how the mentoring process or The Teams depth building works. ”
There’s that “obviously” word again.
See my #47 comment.
#68 Shannon in CA said, “If you’d like to find out about TEAM and how we build our business, I’ve found an informative, non-partial site, wikipedia.”
Wikipedia is a “non-partial” site? Not exactly. It’s written by people like you and me. And the information can change DAILY, depending on what people decide to write and/or challenge what’s already written.
Also notice that on the page you linked it says, at the top:
“THIS ARTICLE MAY REQUIRE CLEANUP TO MEET WIKIPEDIA’S QUALITY STANDARDS”
All that to say: Wikipedia is not a good source to support your “fastest-growing” stat.
“9-4-2 you ask?…I’m surprised you aren’t familiar with this structure.”
Did I say I wasn’t familiar with this structure?
“The 300 PV was for personal consumption and for customers too. But does it matter?”
Yes.
“Very few if any duplicated this”
Probably because the 300 PV was taught as strictly personal use, whether directly, or indirectly (a de-emphasis of retailing).
“Anyway, who cares if what TEAM is doing is wrong in your opinion”
You’re right. This isn’t about opinion, is it?
“Just don’t critize when you have no clue about what we do.”
I shouldn’t criticize regardless of whether or not I “have a clue”. No criticizing, condemning or complaining. Right?
With all due respect Shannon, TEAM’s past and current actions affect the entire IBO community. This isn’t just about the 15% of TEAM IBOs. There’s the other 85%. And let’s not forget all the Amway IBOs around the world who are affected by “what [you] do”.
This is much bigger than me, than you, than any one LOA.
Let’s have some perspective.
I appreciate your passion. And I take passionate people seriously when there is some substance behind that passion.
I do wish the very best to you and your family in all your endeavors.
Cheers.
September 6th, 2007 at 3:37 am
Anyone heard from TEX? I haven’t seen him blogging since the TRO went into effect…. Just a coincidence?
September 6th, 2007 at 8:29 am
FYI
September 4
Plaintiffs file reply in support of their motion for preliminary injunction
Announce that thousands of affidavits, including more than 130 in California, alone, have been executed by former and current Quixtar distributors supporting the plaintiffs’ motion for preliminary injunction
By responding to the plaintiffs’ allegations that it has been knowingly operating as an illegal pyramid scheme through silence, plaintiffs contend that Quixtar admits its guilt
Temporary Restraining Order granted to Team in Collin County, Texas
United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas, Sherman Division, grants plaintiffs’ request for a preliminary injunction order preventing Quixtar from interfering with plaintiffs’ business or business relationships
Court also grants Quixtar’s motion to compel arbitration
August 31
United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas, Sherman Division, holds evidentiary hearing on plaintiff’s motion for injunctive relief
August 29
Plaintiffs file combined response to Quixtar’s notice of motion and motion to dismiss or stay
The Eastern Division of Texas rejects Quixtar’s Anti-Injunction Act argument
August 28
Quixtar sends email to thousands of distributors threatening them with legal action if continue association with Team
Group of ex-Quixtar distributors announce that, contrary to statements issued by Quixtar on 8/24/07, the judge today ruled in favor of the distributors allowing continued participation in Team meetings
Quixtar forced to retract its premature claim of “complete defeat” for the distributors in the case
Temporary Restraining Order granted in favor of Lawrence v. Quixtar in Berks County, Pennsylvania
To date, the number of TROs granted heavily favors the distributors over Quixtar, 11-3
September 6th, 2007 at 8:55 am
To: Piet Strydom
TEAM is actualy a Nevada Corp, and the brief by Quixtar in Calif. is typical rhetoric in a lawsuit. This case isn’t about Michigan, it’s about the entire North America, and should be heard in a Feberal Court, not Quixtar’s backyard.
September 6th, 2007 at 9:09 am
66 wendy you are so wrong, making a profit is not prohibited. On Page 9 of the new QBOB it clearly reads ” Some IBOs sell Business Support Materials (BSM)independently of Quixtar, these include DVD’s Cds books, websites, seminars and business conventions. Some IBos earn income from the sale of these BSM apart from their earnings under the the IBO compensation Plan”
September 6th, 2007 at 9:16 am
For the PDF look at #52 Jack
# 68 through 72, easy now. I agree with you but lets not get out of hand with the mud slinging and finger pointing. I mean, look at the way the corporation responds to things that happen, it rubs off on everyone associated with them. I encourage everyone, in TEAM or not, to step back and see how rediculous this is to try and use your opinion to sway someone who just wants to argue or has their own opinion. People for Quixtar/Amway/Alticor will ALWAYS support them if they feel they are in the right the same way TEAM associates will ALWAYS support them if they think they are right. Point fingers digitally, name call, insult each other, you’ll never meet each other. If you do somehow meet each other, you’d be embrassed at how childish we’ve acted.
To the corporate blog administrator.
If you are going to only bash TEAM, please add information cited outside of your own website. That really doesn’t prove anything aside that you are in communication with your web team to update the site as needed. I’m not urging anyong to critic my idea of credibility towards Quixtar but, other resources help support their stand.
I wish everyone luck in their personal lives and hope that all of you will move forward after all of the smoke has cleared and the decisions have been finalized. And remember, we are all human.
September 6th, 2007 at 9:18 am
I do understand that many of the others have been very rude and unprofessional. Disregard the blog trolls and argumentive people. I’m not pointing you guys out of the entire group on purpose, I just feel that everyone (not just you) needs to take it easy. I could’ve wrote that but figured you guys would be more reasonable since you seem to be associated with a more professional organization.
Best wishes.
September 6th, 2007 at 9:55 am
Solutions
- Drop lawsuit and drop negative PR campaign
- Orrin can begin other business adventures but leave all Quixtar ibos alone
- Read “Soulwinning by tl osborn”
- Churches are amazing. The church is the body of Christ Jesus. I love the church. They are the light in this world that keeps darkness at bay. B/c the church is so great, we need to tell more people good news of jc to expand the church.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:43 am
Tired of all this! #70,
I did answer. I didn’t spin. It hasn’t been posted yet.
September 6th, 2007 at 11:32 am
I find very interesting that the judge sees it the same way as the Team IBO’s see it when he says that Quixtar states that Plaintiffs are in violation of the rules of conduct but then can give NO PROOF of such violations……
You’ll have to copy and paste this one….
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
September 6th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
Why have we not heard anything else about Texas on this blog? Where is my email?
September 6th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
when is alticor going to comply with the ruling in texas to take all damning things off this blog site?
September 6th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
Quote by Ronald Reagan in Historic Speech
“The problem with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know to much that isn’t so.”
Freetheibo is a liberal/progressive website spreading myths about Amway.
the freetheibo forum has a total of about 2000 posts total since its creation. Over 200+ posts have been banned by the moderator b/c they did not agree with TEAMs message.
September 6th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
#88
Do you not realize that Quixtar was not represented at that hearing? Kind of hard to present evidence when you are not there, don’t you think?
Administrator, if I am wrong on this please feel free not to post this.
September 6th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
Just checked and it is definitiely an “exparte” order, meaning Quixtar was not present or represented in the hearing.
September 6th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Defining VICTORY:
It is easy to drown under all this information and “spin” from bloggers/documents
QUIXTAR VICTORY: Business As Usual. Enforce their rules and contracts including non-compete, bsms, & stacking.
TEAM VICTORY: Court final decision rule that Quixtar is an Illegal Pyramid AND All TEAM IBOs are free from non-competes to join another mlm…
Guys, keep things simple. Feel free to correct my definitions of VICTORY for both sides.
September 6th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
The Tro was GRANTED to TEAM , BYBY
September 6th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
#77 Ivan Omalley:
Dick Devos, who ran for governor, is no longer a part of Quixtar. He resigned shortly after helping Amway transform into Q. Quixtar is not running for Governor.
TEAM was only 15% of Quixtar’s business. And there are plenty of TEAM IBOs who have chosen to stay w/Quixtar and learn to build the business properly. (And by properly, I mean they are learning to sponsor within the guidelines, as well as learning to retail the products instead of retailing BSMs.)
Most of TEAMs IBOs aren’t bust blogging on your freetheibo site. They’re busy learning to be REAL IBOs rather than BSM pushers. The whole “Going One Million” thing is chuckle worthy at best.
September 6th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
How did my link get changed??
September 6th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
jthompson,
I left you a message regarding the TEAM system in the Ada-tudes blog under “Brief Responds to Lawsuit”. I wasn’t sure where you’d be hanging out next.
September 6th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
Just saw on another blog more Team Leadership has resigned….VanBuskirk, Granger, & Abrahams so far!!! It sounds like more leaders to follow….That’s a lot of PV!!
September 6th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
Injunctions/TROs/ against both sides, TEAM and Alticor both doing a tip-toe to avoid violations, rumors of leaders like Larry VanBuskirk, Matt Abraham, Jeff Granger, resigning. More filings, affidavits — California court coming up soon.
Alticor remaking itself. Wants to be the Bloomingdales of the web. TEAM wants to have the Walmart of the web.
At this point the cat’s amoung pigeons, who knows where the birds will land or who’ll get hit with droppings in the process. Good time to take a vacate a little until the pigeons have landed.
Doesn’t matter, doesn’t matter, doesn’t matter… I wonder where the pigeons will be a year from now? How many will the cat have gotten?
September 6th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
E-mail? Hell, I think they’ve shut down this blog. Or, perhaps, are afraid to update it?
Hmmmm…
September 7th, 2007 at 1:08 am
Well All I can say is while all this law stuff is going on. Other Unified groups are kicking. the VM system has been going crazy just in the last few days about the excitement from the new products and the sales responses coming in from excited IBO. Team I wish you would have stuck it out. The Corp has made the changes. We realize it takes time to turn a huge ship but don’t jump out of a roller coaster while it is on track. The rides is only getting better and we are excited for the future. The tools system and the registration process was Woodwards issues. They just got to far on track thinking it was right that now they believed it. What did they just throw out all the rules and contracts and think they did not apply since they got a bunch of people thinking that. You do not hear the other 75% of the Alticor volume producers complaining about the rules.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:16 am
Amway’s Asian Business is the future.
The smoking mirrors are becoming clearer.
Amway products are being sold in the retail market place overseas
Teams growth is not in line with the future for Amway.
-they grew-
If you want to dissolve the distributorships so you can start selling over the counter, you have to stop the growth.
Steve VanAndel didn’t spend all that time in China for nothing
5 years from now Ocean Essantials will be on Walmarts shelves for a third of the cost like what’s happened in Asia
Just like Oxy-Clean, manufactured and distributed from Amway is half of the price that the distributors can purchase at.
Other name brand items run side by side with the same products that we buy and can not sell because of the rediculous prices we pay.
Here’s a future headline: US distributors can no longer build Amway. Company launches a new retail market approach. Due to hit shelves October 2010.
If you’re just looking for name recognition, you better get rid of those pesky IBOs and put your stuff on the shelves for everyone to see the NAME of AMWAY?
Guess what, that still won’t buy votes!
Be very careful who you’re loyal to. A snake always bites when it’s threatened.
September 7th, 2007 at 5:25 am
To Thunderstruck:
It is not TEAM company that has launched the lawsuit, it is the individual IBO’s. They are all Michigan citizens. They have accepted that the agreement with Q is subject to Michigan law.
September 7th, 2007 at 7:45 am
why hasn’t my post gone up in response to Tex #29
September 7th, 2007 at 9:56 am
I think I’ll quit Quixtar-Amway-Alticor now.
September 7th, 2007 at 10:41 am
Someone tell my why Quixtar is not in violation of their own rules:
Upon final notification by the Corporation with respect to those changes presented to the IBOA International Board, such changes will be communicated to all IBOs in a timely manner in official Corporation literature, and shall become effective upon publication. In order to preserve the goals and purposes of the IBO Plan, the Corporation reserves to itself the sole right to adopt, amend, modify, supplement, or rescind any or all of these Rules, as necessary with respect to cases of Rules enforcement. In the event the Corporation deprives an IBO of a substantial and material property right through such adoption, amendment, modification, supplementation, or rescission, such IBO shall have the right to bring such matter to the attention of the IBOA International Board for further discussion, evaluation, and recommendation.
I have yet to receive anything mailed to my home, or even emailed, that mentions the changes that have taken place. The Quixtar name is to be replaced by Amway, if I understand page 2 of the SA4400 replacement 12 pager.
As of the morning of Sep 7th, I have not received a copy, while I have found out I can now order a copy.
So Quixtar is making me tell new prospects something they haven’t told me.
Alticor should do what I have been asking since August 10th when I found out some of this.
They need to allow all Quixtar IBOs the choice that was offered in 1999. The choice to stay in the Current business or choose the new Amway they are creating.
The reason the American Way Assoc. was started in 1959 was Rich and Jay wanted to fix it so the corporation could not do what the corporation is doing now.
Fix this now. Allow 1999 to repeat and the IBOs chose to stay with Quixtar or go back to Amway.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:16 am
Okay its funny that alticor admins. said it would be posted on TUESDAY due to LABOR DAY. But it is welll past Tuesday and still I see no court order posted by ALITCOR but rather some sort of form was posted in post #88.
As for me, I’m not an IBO of Quixtar, however my boyfriend is. He wanted me to try some products to see how well I liked it, since I was always using MAC make-up one of the top lines of makeup, i believe. However he said this brand (NAO) was very good. So I decided why not? I mean I’ve used Maybelline and that was fine, why not try something that is suppose to be better quality? HOW WRONG I WAS. NAO does not even show any color, and especially for $13 a tube, it was definately not worth it. I could get a better product at Walmart (Maybelline) for 1/3 of the price. Not to mention even MAC sells their products for cheaper! For those of you who don’t know MAC is a pretty expensive make-up line. So to say the PRODUCTS is what makes the business, it does not seem so.
Secondly, the Quixtar name is pretty bad itself. Anytime my boyfriend mentioned to any of my friends he had a business, they would automatically be “Oh is it that Quixtar thing? That’s an illegal pyramid, why are you doing that?” But now to change it to AMWAY, that’s even crazier! Imagine the responses you will get.
Third, for those criticizing the TEAM system, have you even heard a CD? I mean try listening to Tim and Amy Marks, Chris and Terri Brady. Although I’m not an IBO, just listening to their thoughs on LEADERSHIP, INTEGRITY, HONOR, RESPECT, makes you want to be that kind of person. For me, I can see the clear differences between my friends associated with TEAM and my friends that go out night after night, or my friends that aren’t plugged in. Those in the TEAM care for one another and have a close bond.
It’s funny that Tex and some of these other folks are talking bad about Orrin and whoever else in the TEAM, because thousands and thousands of others believe in everything they stand for. I know seeing these leaders in person and having them care enough to get to know their groups (yes even the little IBO’s) show that they do have integrity.
However, whatever I say isn’t going to make anything change
“People of integrity expect to be believed and when they’re not, they will let time prove them right.”
I’m sure the leaders will let time prove their integrity. September 12 is not too far away.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
Gladiator: We had to embed the link. Because the URL was rather lengthy, the way it was cut and pasted was causing issues in Internet Explorer (the margins looked funky). Rest assured your link is still in place.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
98Aron,
Your awesome message about your personal experience with a new TEAM ibo is included at http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/index.php/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,91/func,view/id,6166/catid,27/
It is OBVIOUS that TEAM was playing a different game as the rest of IBOs in Amway/Quixtar.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
Leave this moderator alone. I have made about 3-4 long posts about Orrin that have never been posted. They have been fair for both sides.
This moderator does has not banned bloggers that disagree like freetheibo forum does. This moderator will not delete your entire history of posts w/o reason why like freetheibo did to my 80 comments and like they have done to many more people.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
#104 Piet Strydom
Actually, your statement, “They are all Michigan citizens” is not correct.
There are nearly as many NON-Michigan residents in the lawsuit.
This is a multi-state issue as Quixtar is a multi-state business.
I have a question.
Since Quixtar is NOT a Michigan corporation, why does it matter?
Why not go to Virginia for example?
September 7th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
99 Quixkicked Says:
September 6th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
that is not a lot of pv resigning. Its about 300-1000pv per ibo at the very most.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
102 Johnny D - he is right on! If you are a Quixtar IBO that is not being affiliated that listen to Johnny D, he knows!
“What did they just throw out all the rules and contracts and think they did not apply since they got a bunch of people thinking that. You do not hear the other 75% of the Alticor volume producers complaining about the rules.”
Get plugged back into your upline, listen to cds, etc…
September 7th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
#92 BK….I guess I get a different understanding of the words “the court HEARD the testimony of SEVERAL Quixtar representatives”…key word=HEARD?? How does that happen if they weren’t there or is the judge lying too?
REPORT AND RECOMMENDATIONS OF UNITED STATES MAGISTRATE JUDGE GRANTING PLAINTIFF’S APPLICATION FOR PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION AND
GRANTING DEFENDANT’S MOTION TO COMPEL ARBITRATION……………
Preliminary Injunction
At the preliminary injunction hearing, the Court heard the testimony of Plaintiffs, several independent Quixtar IBOs, and several representatives of Quixtar. On examination, none of Quixtar’s representatives were able to definitely state which Team materials abridge the Rules of Conduct.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
JT#91,
Care to tell me what “myths” are being spread by TEAM? Also, please remember that we have never broken any rules of conduct and our leaders were terminated without cause…at least not any of the causes Q* claims.
And hey moderator, aren’t you supposed to clean up any disparaging remarks about TEAM from this little site of yours?
September 7th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Piet Strydom:
Since you are so impressed with Qs brief, be sure you read the mighty 15s response. Much more impressive document, backed up by a lot more solid evidence of why there will be a trial.
September 7th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Administrator:
The Texas topic posts outnumber the Scheibeler recants post by a large margin today (and it’s early). How about a new post: QUIXTAR DEFEAT: MOTION FOR DISMISSAL DENIED?
September 7th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Is it just me or does it really seem that TEAM is shooting themselves in the foot? To start with… their claim that Q/A is a pyramid seems to make some sense when you understand how they (TEAM) were building it. By VIOLATING the Q/A rules of conduct, TEAM has moved closer into that illegal grey area. The whole “sip twice, eat once, get your friends and get rich” concept is NOT how this business should be built.
Which brings me to my next point. While TEAM has been breaking these rules of conduct and not properly informing people of what they are really getting into, they have amassed a growing number of people who are not happy with their circumstances. You end up with 1400 afidavids from unhappy IBO’s that TEAM has tried to steer towards Q/A.
My feeling is that, if TEAM had been following the rules of conduct when introducing new prospects then there would not be the bitterness that we see now. Bottom line… if TEAM has that many unhappy IBO’s then TEAM has obviously been doing something wrong. I see these 1400 complaints as a knock against TEAM, not Amway. They support the Q/A position in that the rules of conduct are there to be followed in order to avoid such a mess.
September 7th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
TEAM don’t try to tell Alticor how to run their blog.
Go back to freetheibo site - i have yet to see more than 5 blogging users online in the last 2 weeks out of 75k ibos. That site needs your help.
____
Please go back to the Ashton run website and help Ashton Partners to do as Orrin/TEAM paid them to do, “Manage and Position information to affect (Amways) Reputation negatively”
_____
IS THERE A TEAM IBO THAT WILL ARGUE WITH THE FOLLOWING FACTS?
1. Ashton is being paid by TEAM
2. Ashton is a PR firm
3. Ashton has their mission statement online, which includes “manage and position information….”
4. Freetheibo site is being run by Ashton
5. Freetheibo purpose is to “manage and position information to support TEAM lawsuit/message and to dis-support Quixtars side of the story”
“manage” - determine which information you want to include… which information supports your message
“position” - present the info that you do include in a way that most positively impacts your reputation… and hurts reputation of the one against you.
September 7th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Quixtar_complaint_v._woodward_and_brady.pdf
the story - read paragraph 50’s…
September 7th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
119 Pat
Maybe some research would not make you look so bad. Which rules of conduct are they VIOLATING? And how does that move them into the “grey” area? If you read the lawsuit it explains why “pyramid”. How should this business be built, the “Pat” way? Do you even know what is in the “afidavids”? How do you know how TEAM introduces prospects, (thru heresay)? Don’t they have to use the “Quixtar” registration to get started. I don’t know for sure, but I think the IBO’s ARE unhappy with Quixtar/Amway and not TEAM. Just my take, nothing personal.
September 7th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
#107 Utah:
You cannot chose to stay w/Quixtar after the transfomration is complete. There will no longer be a business entity called Quixtar.
#108 Freedom:
Were you using a sheer lip color? I’ve never had a problem using NAO lipcolors. And I love love love the loose mineral pigment.
I have heard a couple of the TEAM CDs. Both my boyfriend and I are TEAM IBOs. He considers TEAM family. I consider them opportunists who misrepresent themselves under the guise of MLM.
They whole feel good-improve your life thing is all fine and dandy, but Quixtar is a retail business. And they’re not teaching you the basics of retailing.
September 7th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
121. jthompson
I won’t argue with you but I will make some statements.
The TEAM is NOT paying for the attorneys in the CA Class Action lawsuit, it is being paid by the plaintiffs.
I would assume that the TEAM will pay for any attorney’s fees that pertain to it’s business operations of leadership development system(bsm’s) as related to Quixtar.
I think you are mixing the potential “class”(ie. TEAM affiliated IBOs) with individual TEAM leaders(plaintiffs).
Okay, what is your point on 2-5(unless you are responding to someone elses post i missed)…..It is a class action lawsuit being handled by professionals. It is what professionals get paid to do. What is THIS blog all about?
Honest question here, what is your affiliation in this?
I am a Quixtar Founders Platinum using the TEAM BSM,s.
Are you an Alticor-Quixtar-Amway employee?
Are you an IBO?
Do you have a downline?
September 7th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
JT#120&121,
WHAT MYTHS ARE TEAM SPREADING? WHAT RULES OF CONDUCT HAVE THEY BROKEN?
The reason these questions are so hard for you to answer is because the answers are “None” and “None.”
September 7th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
#119 Pat, no, it’s just you. You have the TEAM concept all wrong. We have NEVER been violating the rules, Quixtar needs to clain something, but it’s mighty thin thread.
September 7th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Interesting reading from Rich Devos’ book
qreilly.blogspot.com
If the original Nutrilite company held Devos and VanAndel to the same “RULES” that Quixtar has on it’s ibos, AMWAY WOULD HAVE NEVER EXISTED!!!!!
It was because of someone with a dream in the FREE ENTERPRISE system that this business even exists. Without BOTH of those, you have some form of Socialism/Communism. If you like the results of those systems, YOU “JUST GO” for it.
FREE ENTERPRISE: THE CONSUMER RULES. If you have a product/good/service people want and sell it at a competitive price, you can make money and even become wealthy.
COMMUNISM: Consumer does not rule, products are dictated by those in charge who ENFORCE(or change) the rules and laws rule as needed for the good of the state, not the consumer. Usually secured by force/fence/walls/dogs/guns/rules of conduct, etc.
September 7th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
Those of you who write with such venom towards Team. How much do you actually know about Team? I figured you could relate this experience by telling us all the following:
1) How many Tuesdays you’be been to
2) How many seminars you’ve been to
3) How many Team CDs you’ve listened to
Looking forward to your response.
September 7th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Oh, another thought, reading books authored by Chris and Orrin would qualify too, but if none of those 4 ways apply, please tell us what sources you’ve used to form your opinion of Team/Orrin.
Thanks
September 7th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
O.K. Kevin, I will challenge what you wrote. I have read EVERY book by Chris and Orrin, been to over 250 open meetings, been to 50-60 seminars, 13 major conventions, 100’s and 100’s of cd’s and do you know what? Oh…….. I agree with everything you said. I guess it’s the one’s who haven’t been to any TEAM function and think they know what we do would be called, what, misinformed? Delusional? Dumb? Prejudice? How about simple Jealousy? As you are aware I’m sure, those who are way below are envious of those on top!!
September 8th, 2007 at 2:58 am
To Girlpower on the fact that many of the ibos are learning the “correct” way to be an ibo - where is your information coming from? My own downline has well over 100 people in it, and NONE of them like Quixtar. They would, except their prices are too high. I’m also associated with well over 1,000 ibos, and talk to people regularly like Vanbuskirk, and Bill and Jackie Lewis. Neither them, nor anybody I’ve talked to on the Team (and that’s a lot of people) cares about building the “correct” way. So, who, pray-tell, is telling you that a lot of Team IBOs are learning the “correct” way?
September 8th, 2007 at 7:49 am
Jthompson #121:
Paragraph 50 states that Woodward and Brady would not fix their breaches of contract and that they intended to start another competing mlm. Ron Simmons was the person communicating with Q on behalf of Woodward and Brady, and they told him on several occasions they had no problem with any of TEAMs practices. His account Part 3: Setting the Record Straight will give you all the details. The second part, starting a competing mlm, was an assumption made by Quixtar Legal that has now proven to be false. Suggest you read the response to this document, which you can find on the homepage of www.freetheibo.com. It is a much more thorough and professional document, and apparently the court in California gives it more weight since it sure looks like the trial is on. Pay particular attention to the sections about why California has jurisdiction over this case, that the case is indeed about Q being an illegal pyramid, and that this case is not just about the original plaintiffs, but all 700,000 North American IBOs. As to your post #120, just who do you think is paying for THIS site? That’s just the way it’s done in America for now.
September 8th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
I’m curious about a few things here.
1. Why has Quixtar not said a single thing in defense to the claims in the lawsuit filed in California? All they did is resort to a logical fallacy (ad hominem) and attack the people, not what they’re saying.
2. BK #93: I have read the judges order from texas. Here’s an excerpt,
“An ex parte order, without notice to Defendant, is necessary because there was not enough time to give notice to Defendant, hold a hearing, and issue a restraining order before irreparable injury and harm to Plaintiffs occurs.”
Looks like it wouldn’t have mattered what Quixtar said.
3. Why have the provisions not been met by Quixtar and why hasn’t anything been said at all about it by Quixtar?!?
September 8th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
jthompson….
I just read your last post on the recently removed Just Go, Team post. I know you’re fired up about all this, and that’s fine, although I’m not sure why.
We’re all talking in circles here, because most of us don’t truly understand the big picture, but let’s try and have more discussion and less vitriolic accusations.
I realize that one might get certain perceptions reading this and that on the internet, but I would encourage you to step back… no, really step back…. (and maybe you just need another hobby)…. and look objectively at what Team is trying to do and what Quixtar is trying to do. It’s really quite simple.
Team is building a community of people for which products and services flow. Quixtar has helped them in this pursuit (obviously), but Team sees opportunity beyond certain restrictions that Quixtar is instituting. In attempting to split paths (it’s a contract dispute, it happens ALL THE TIME EVERYWHERE IN THE KNOWN UNIVERSE GET OVER IT), they have been forced to fight.
Quixtar on the other hand probably doesn’t see these as “restrictions” per se, and probably legitimately feels they are going down the right path (which is FINE). As a result of this conflict, their own financial future has been put at risk (whether it be losing IBOs, or from a competing shopping portal). They will then fight as well.
Now obviously that’s a simple take, and there are many by-products such as the crazy weird PR going on, and all of us blabbering back and forth on these blogs about who-knows-what. Of course the largest, most tragic by-product is the IBO businesses involved, and our discussion should be in the area of coping and postulating of what might come of them, not the constant barrage of attacks at either side.
Nobody has some evil ideology here. This is literally a battle between an organization that has an ideology of freedom vs. a corporate behemoth of which ideology….. might be grounds for good discussion as well (For one, I have NO IDEA what Quixtar stands for anymore)
That’s just how I see it. This whole situation is stressful enough that this unrelenting agnst is really abject and pointless.
September 8th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
119
Pat, there’s a cool blog article that’ll help shed some light on your concerns. After you read the article, you’ll realize that it’s not just Team that’s causing Quixtar problems. http://www.barristerquixtarlawsuit.typepad.com/
September 9th, 2007 at 1:53 am
Kevin #128/9,
1) How many Tuesdays you’be been to - about 4, all previous to the termination/resignation. they were virtually identical. Never mentioned Quixtar, gave Orrin/Chris “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward/Brady credit for what Quixtar does, never mentioned retailing, or made such a minor mention it wouldn’t have registered in the mind of a prospect that retailing is required in order to qualify for downline volume bonus. They heavily promoted the tool system after the open. Appalling!
2) How many seminars you’ve been to - one, same issues as seen in the opens. Had the tools available for purchase in the back of the room and repeatedly encouraged emotional purchases. Disgusting.
3) How many Team CDs you’ve listened to - dozens, they don’t sound much different than any of the other multiple lines of sponsorship tapes/CD’s I have, which number well over 10,000.
4) Books by Orrin/Christ “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward/Brady - I buy books for $1 or less, haven’t seen any of those available for that price. After what I know about these characters, I think $1 would be too much to spend.
The TEAM tactics are the most abusive of any I have ever seen or heard others talk about. How’s THAT for a response, Kevin?
Thunderstruck #130,
You should be a Double Diamond by now, right? How much have you and your group spent on tools versus how much you have made via tool and Quixtar income? Yes, I think you’re misinformed, delusional, dumb, and prejudiced. How about simple Jealousy? No, you’re not informed enough to be jealous. As you are aware I’m sure, those who are way below the knowledge and fact curve are envious of those on top of the knowledge and facts!!
September 9th, 2007 at 1:54 am
Mojoman #131,
Not building the business the “correct way” (the rest of us call it following the rules) is why Orrin and Co. are no longer IBO’s.
makingadifference #132,
You haven’t proven squat. You are relying on Ron Simmons’ word. Quixtar said in the original termination/resignation post they have been trying to get Orrin to “fly right” for years. You also have no idea what was said, you are merely taking Ron’s interpretation of what was said at face value, and are assuming Ron saw and heard EVERYTHING that happened, which is highly unlikely. Ron also said Quixtar told the higher pins not to disclose tool income, which has been denied on the IBOAI forum. I also asked Ron to have Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward provide the tool profits, since Orrin is no longer an IBO. I think Orrin won’t do this, because it will show how MASSIVELY overpriced the tools are compared to any comparison he can make regarding the products, that any judge would laugh Orrin out of the courtroom. Orrin and Co. have to get over several legal hurdles before the judge can even accept the case, which appears very unlikely to me.
September 9th, 2007 at 2:03 am
Clint #133,
1. They clearly stated the illegal pyramid is a false charge, as we carry high quality products that cost more to produce, and can be reasonably cost more to purchase.
2. Why do you say “Looks like it wouldn’t have mattered what Quixtar said”, as like the judge was saying quite the opposite?
3. The provisions have probably not been met because there are conflicts within the court system that have to be worked out prior to Quixtar being required to comply, and they are probably not saying much because they are working the issues through the judicial system, as blogs don’t result in legal decisions to clear up the conflicts, courts do. Most attorneys would probably recommend their clients not say much, but that didn’t stop Chuck Goetschel and Ron Simmons from flapping their lips, did it?
September 9th, 2007 at 3:04 am
Seems to me that if Tex and Bridgett spent as much time and energy on their businesses as they do on these blogs, they’d be diamonds in their precious amway business by now. But hey, it’s their business. *shrug*
September 9th, 2007 at 11:38 am
If you are really interested in an update, why not go to “freetheibo” site, go to court cases and read “Response to Quixtar’s Motion to Dismiss.” This should clear up any miss statements.
I really don’t expect this to be posted but it is obvious Altocor Blog screeners will not prevent exposure. Why don’t you guys work this thing out? It is hurting everyone.
September 10th, 2007 at 9:40 am
Kevin: “Recently” removed? It never went away. Also, which of your posts do you believe were deleted?
September 10th, 2007 at 10:11 am
134 Kevin.
TEAM leaders like Orrin signed and agreed for over 3 years on a non-compete that protected others from raiding their big mlm. Now that they want out of Quixtar, they are going back on their word. This is not integrity. Integrity means you keep your word.
Ex: Johnny builds a TEAM/QUIXTAR business. He goes diamond. he developes network that is 20% of TEAM business. Johnny finds another opportunity. Johnny wants to take his TEAM with him but signed the TEAM non-compete. TEAM won’t let Johnny break the rules and the agreement. Johnny files 12 lawsuits/tros with a bogus lawsuit about prices and hires Ashton PR to “slander” TEAM until he gets let go and calls it integrity … how TEAM books are 2x the amount as amazon for the same books.
September 10th, 2007 at 10:32 am
Tex #138,
1. Yes, they did say that it is a false charge, but with no warrants. They said they had higher quality products, but again, with no warrants. Both of those claims are addressed in the filing and quixtar has yet to say anything but, “nuh uh”.
2. The judge issued the order ex parte because irreparable harm (one of the merits) to Team would occur before the hearing could be conducted. If the judge thought that a hearing was necessary, he wouldn’t have issued the order.
3. I understand that there is stuff that has to be cleared up in the legal system, but it has been about a week now. On top of that, the federal court trumps any county court.
September 10th, 2007 at 10:40 am
tex & jthompson,
1. Check the Michigan records.
QUIXTAR INC. originated as a VIRGINIA Corporation; see last line taken from MI .dleg.state.mi.us/bcs_corp
Searched for: QUIXTAR INC.
ID Num: 641314
Entity Name: QUIXTAR INC.
Type of Entity: Foreign Profit Corporation
Resident Agent: THE CORPORATION COMPANY
Registered Office Address: 30600 TELEGRAPH ROAD STE 2345 BINGHAM FARMS MI 48025
Mailing Address: MI
Formed Under Act Number(s):
Incorporation/Qualification Date: 1-29-2001
Jurisdiction of Origin: VIRGINIA
2. Please explain the name change to AMWAY?
September 10th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Tex, Lol… That’s the whole point. The rules are changing. We don’t like the new rules. Are you an IBOA board member or ever sat in on any of their meetings? If so, would you please impart what went on in those meetings? You seem to be very enthusiastic about your business, and instead of hearing arguments, we’d like to hear how you participated in the meetings we have been so debating about. I am not personally a member, but I will provide a source for some of what has been going on.
Here ya go: http://freetheiboblog.typepad.com/quixtar/2007/09/randy-haugen-sp.html
September 10th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
CLINT 133
Thanks for making my point. I was not debating the merits of the claims, only that Quixtar was not even there to present ANY argument. Taking it to the point of saying that it would not have mattered to the Court what they would have said, however, is rather silly.
September 10th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
Oh, and to those that thought the Team filed suit without Quixtar knowing. Read this: http://freetheiboblog.typepad.com/quixtar/2007/09/chuck-goetschel.html
Quixtar had 24 hours of notice.
“Pray for peace, but keep your powder dry…”
Again, to those that attack the merits of the IBOA or any of its current (recently) past members, please cite what connection you have with the board or any of its board members. You would be “in the know” and we would love to hear from you. If you have no connection, maybe you should refrain from talking about things you don’t have the whole story on. Instead we’ll go ahead post things that the members themselves post.
One more question, what are you guys that have been defending Amway and name change going to do or think if the suit is lost in California?
To the Administrator(s). Thanks for all your work. You have been tremendously professional and patient with all of us. You sir(s), deserve a raise!
September 10th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
The New Amway High Life Video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dWCx7DB678Q
September 10th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
I will certainly not enter into the current banner of right or wrong, but I will say a few things that I hope Quixtar will see. Several years ago we were at a National convention where Dick Devoss spoke. In short he exposed a very callous disregard for IBO’s as customers when he talked about product changes and drops and told everyone to ” JUST GET OVER IT”. What would you do if told that by one of your local stores - You would take your business elsewhere. Since that time we have seen a continuous migration away from customer focus which is a strange business practice knowing that the products are almost imposible to market- except some Artistry and XS, which is now over priced. Apparently the younger family members took that callous guidance as okay to abuse IBO’S as they have them locked into the system if they are making income. There has been a continuous stream of even very good overpriced products that have been dropped. When I hear a plea of limited profit on a product, I think of the sporting goods store saying they do not carry 16 gage shells or other special products because of the low volumne. Another example is the store that said they would have to order something because they were managing their inventory for the end of the year - I needed the product then. These mentalities are called - NOT EXISTING FOR THE CUSTOMER and are reason for many businesses failing. For example when an IBO creates a market and promotes a product which is then dropped, the IBO loses credibility and a customer. Has anyone at the top of Quixtar even wondered why they have very limited if any growth these last 2-3 years while business in the USA has been exploding?? I also notice the feedback info on the growth has been non existant - keep us in the dark and feed us corporate fertilizer. The corp. does a great job of delivery and customer service and we are now seeing signs of that area falling off. Ask Dell Computer what effect that area can have on your business. You can also look at the packaging of the 40 # Nutripet Dog food - absolutely non-customer focus!! Also, changing the name back making liars of all of us these past 8 years reeks of incompetance!!
Quixtar folks, I hope you come to your senses, stand back and look at what is happening and listen to your Board members that are putting integrity and concern for all IBO’S ABOVE THEIR OWN FINANCIAL INTEREST.
September 10th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Re Tex #138…and now Randy Haugen has gone public with his report, though I must admit it’s just an attempt to justify his actions and not the smear fest that Chuck indulged in…God, how that disappointed me…I had really looked up to Chuck…
September 10th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
#139 rroney
You’re the fourth person to address me on this thread, and the first to spell my name correctly.
Thanks!
Have a fantastic day!
September 10th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
rroney #139,
Seems to me that if you spent as much time and energy reading my blogs and minding your own business as you do criticizing the time I spend on these blogs, you’d be a lot more knowledable in your precious amway business by now. But hey, it’s your business. *shrug*
September 10th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
Ron #140,
Go to freetheibo only if you want a one-sided and erroneous side of the story. Unlike freetheibo, Quixtar posts all sides of the story, so you shouldn’t be surprised your lame post ended up being posted. Of course, when you virtually worship Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward, who demands you accept his flawed interpretation of reality, what do you expect?
September 10th, 2007 at 11:28 pm
Tex, Tex, Tex…
Just read your response to myself and Kevin. First of all, I’m not just “taking Ron’s word for it”. I have personally heard many of the conference calls from/to Quixtar legal. I have personally heard many of the remaining high level IBOs that Chuck talked about saying they didn’t agree with the upcoming changes, but no one has ever been able to take on the corp. before and that they could “spin it”. IBOAIs statements since the 9th, therefore, don’t carry a lot of weight with me. It seems to me that there has been attempts in the past to disclose tool profits. If you haven’t seen Andy Andrews video which is available online, I recommend it. I know there were other issues in his case but his story is still valid. Bottom line, those with integrity have wanted the tools issue to be completely transparent and fair to everyone, and those with more ego than integrity have wanted to shut these folks up and keep their “good old boy network”, which is backed up by Quixtar legal (personally heard one of those conference calls as well, which is why I have consistently tried to get a response to the 3.4% question, and the tool profits question, because I knew the silence would follow and I thought a lot of folks could pick up on that). As to your comments to Kevin: Are you kidding me? First of all just one months profit from my business has far exceeded all of my tool purchases since I got in the business! And to say I have invested more than the average TEAM IBO is a huge understatement. And to say that the TEAM system be that cds, books, opens, or seminars are either no different from other LOAs or are “abusive”? I have heard thousands upon thousands of comments from TEAM IBOs about system and the only negative ones I’ve ever heard come from people in the business less than six months or they hung out a while longer but aren’t on system. The most valuable comments come from an organization who built without TEAM approach and can do an honest comparison based on experience, and 100% of the time the response is very positive. The results speak for themselves. Number one eight years in a row? If you don’t understand that the teams approach to depth can only account for a portion of these results (albeit a very significant portion), and would be impossible unless the value of the information was significantly better than in those organizations without these results, then I can tell you for sure that your success up to this point has been very limited. Did you know that Orrin has been approached by many top leaders in Quixtar to gain access to his cds? Did you know that even other mlm leaders have approached them for the cds as well? Now why would they do that? Before you ask “how do you know?” let me just say you would be surpised what is talked about on conference calls and such where one doesn’t have to be there to be witness to the conversation in real time. And finally, do you not see that TEAMs future is set regardless of what happens in California day after tommorow? They are just trying to set the record straight. Remember TEAM is not an mlm, they are a leadership development service provider with a profit sharing organization. The non compete simply does not apply unless they want to market simialr products, and there hasn’t been any money in that anyway, which is why the North American sales have plummeted when you adjust for inflation over the last 20 years and forecasts for the future in North America are not good. Finally, apply what you said to Thunderstruck #130 to yourself, and that’s the difference between you and I. I like the way Dex put it years ago, the man with experience is never at the mercy of the man who only has a theory.
September 11th, 2007 at 12:40 am
If you’re looking for more civil discourse, I recommend the Ada-tudes and Opportunity Zone blogs that are hosted by Quixtar employees. For some reason the bloggers are more respectful of one another there. There’s a whole different tone over there.
September 11th, 2007 at 7:50 am
Mojoman: We try
September 11th, 2007 at 9:08 am
Tex and jthompson….
I’ll ask this again. Honest question here, what is your affiliation in this?
I am a Quixtar Q12 Platinum using the TEAM Leadeship Development System.
Are you an Alticor-Quixtar-Amway employee?
Are you an IBO?
Do you have a downline?
If so, have you achieved Platinum or above?
September 11th, 2007 at 9:39 am
I haven’t read any blogs in over a week, and I was very tempted to respond to all the misinformation in the above comments. Then I came across the “Crazy World” site, and they say it all for me. Check it out.
September 11th, 2007 at 11:32 am
Tex has been to 4 opens and one seminar and is disgusted. Who goes to other organization’s functions (and by what motivation?)and then gets on their high horse with expert opinions after that little exposure? It’s quite clear from reading Tex’s posts that he or she doesn’t know how the TEAM works. It’s obvious that Bridgett doesn’t know either by her comments about TEAM approach. So if you want to know about TEAM ask those who are part of it and if you want to know about the Quixtar/Amway business that Tex and Bridgett are building ask them. I’ll start the ball rolling….Tex and Bridgett and (JThompson if you want to jump in here), what organization do you belong to and how do you teach building? Do you use any BSMs at all and without revealing too much how long have you been building and have you achieved a level worth listening to? This is what others should ask first then follow you if they choose. As for your expert opinions on TEAM, leave the answers to those who really know how it works.
September 11th, 2007 at 11:53 am
TEAMs internet blasts - GREAT NEWS for IBOS
Tex, you are kicking boodie!
TEAM ibos still have not figured out that they are out of business unless a Law Disaster happens!
The current status of things is TEAM still cannot break the 2yr non-compete like other mlms have. TEAM has no business. They have theories.
TEAM is not going down without a Slander of Q/A though. They have created over 100 blogs that promote TEAM and dispharage Quixtar.
This is GREAT NEWS!
Now IBOs can pretty much explain 99% of the negative on the internet by explaining
1. The TEAM story - as listed on jt website (orrinwoodward.blogspot.com/ about the PR attack against Quixtar.
Isn’t cool to be able to new prospects the TEAM story of how they “Farted and blamed it on Quixtar before others could smell their stink”. And that most of the internet negative is b/c of TEAM and others like them!
2. The other critics are people who failed at free enterprise (b/c they quit, and quiters don’t make no money!) like Scott larson, Eric S, etc… and blame others for their failures.
September 11th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
Tex# 153
Thanks for your unbiased input. People may want to draw their own conclusions when reading the Judge’s opinion I referred to in Tex# 140.
This is not an attempt to lay blame or say who is right or who is wrong. But to help individuals see that there are preceptions draw on bost sides which will effect IBOs and the corporation as we try to move forward. I don’t want to sway anyone to someone else’s opinion. “A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.”
This is the anniversary of 9/11 when through adversity the whole country came together. We as IBOs and Company are going through adversity and we too need to come together.
September 11th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
Tex #130 I am doing quite well thank you. And regarding the cost of tools, what I have gotten in return is priceless. You forget one thing, tools are optional, anybody can try to build the business without them!! In my 6 years however, I have never seen anybody build a substantial business without them. BTW, I am no longer affiliated with Quixtar and God does it feel good!
September 11th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Human nature is to have a knee jerk reaction to circle the wagons and defend your friends on both sides. So I could see for the first week or so that people would spout off with out really know what is going on. Tex and JT, I don’t think you are on the team and I think that is why you are defending Amway the way you two are. I have gone over all the blogs, read as much as I could find about the court issues and talked with friends’ upline, sideline and no line. I am a practical enough person not to just take what I hear as gospel.
I for one think that what Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward and company are saying is closer to the truth on what really went down. There are some huge leaders in this organization that are giving up a lot ($$$$) for what I am hoping is a brighter future. You guys have fought the good fight so to speak.
You might be making enough money at Q now that it would be real hard to give up and join TEAM with out knowing what the future of TEAM is.
But I for one, and I think I speak for most TEAM members, would welcome you both to the TEAM if you so choose.
P.S. TEX, on a side note. There is a ton of money in tools. I agree too much. BUT, how could a platinum quit their job to help other people learn to quit their job. From what I have learned Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward is the fairest of them all. What ever he comes up with I think he will take that same sharing attitude with him into the next venture what ever it is.
September 11th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
TJ I think I have to retract my offer in my earlier post (155). After looking at your blog site you seem to enjoy the venom.
Conan
September 11th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Quixtar_s_Opposition_to_Plaintiffs_Motion_for_Preliminary_Injunction.pdf
Good Reading!
Ex:
1. TEAM has a 1year non-compete
2. Woodward/Florence… have enforced Quixtars non-compete in the past
3. The IBOAI board is the one that introduced the current non-competition rules to Quixtar in March 2004
TEAM MISREPRESENTED THE BUSINESS. The reason Team Ibos think they should be free from Quixtar non-compete is b/c they think that TEAM is the MLM business and Quixtar is just a supplier.
September 11th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
BK #146
You are right, Quixtar was not there to present argument, but as the order states, the time for that to have taken place would’ve done irreparable harm to Team. In other words, Quixtar lost on one of the merits either way.
If the judge really thought it mattered, he wouldn’t have issued that order, let alone ordered pretty strict action.
September 11th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
Clint #143,
1. I have used the products and found the quality to be higher for the core line products.
2. The judge issued the order to “freeze” the situation as it was, it was NOT a judgement, as was done in Michigan with both sides giving their positions.
3. You think a week is a long time in our judicial system? You are in for a rude awakening. We’ll see which court takes jurisdiction as part of the CA court process.
September 12th, 2007 at 12:18 am
Matt #144,
1. What’s your point?
2. I am not going to explain the name change again. Look it up on the various corp blogs.
Mojoman #145/7,
You don’t get to choose which rules to ignore when rule changes are made. You can find what I think of Randy “Rosie Ruiz” Haugen’s post here: http://ohana.lava.net/blogs/Joecool18/quixtar/2007/09/02/quixtar_-_pyramid_parameters
I also posted it on your link, I doubt it will pass muster on that Randy “love fest” site.
The connection I have with the Board members is they have been ripping me and millions of other IBO’s off for the tools for the past several decades. Pretty close “relationship”, wouldn’t you say?
September 12th, 2007 at 9:49 am
This is the beginning of the fall for the two “GREAT” legendary leaders, Rich DeVos and Jay Van Andel. I sure hope that their families have a good retirement plan. Amway has, is and will be a foul word long after the corporation crumbles. Mr. DeVos and Mr. Van Andel only care about their families, NOT the families of all the IBO’s that they have impacted in a negative way over the last several months. As for all you that think Amway is the way of the future, The Mayo Clinic has a great Psychology department, maybe you should seek help with your issues of denial.
My children are having nightmares when they think of the new (same old Amway) name coming in 24 months.
Truly
Exceptional
And
More
September 12th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
Tex # 153
“Go to freetheibo only if you want a one-sided and erroneous side of the story. Unlike freetheibo, Quixtar posts all sides of the story,”
I’m laughing so hard it’s hard to type to respond to that ludicrous statement you made!!! This Alticor blog has censored so many posts and blocked so many posts that if they were to censor all the books in the world then there would be NO BOOKS in existence. I have had very high regard for Amway and Quixtar both for more years than I care to count and it is only for the actions that they have been and are currently taking that has DESTROYED any trust I have ever had in them. You talk about following Orrin and the others foolishly and blindly? What do you call your statement other than just openly stating that you have absolutely NO concern or care for the truth or perhaps anything at all having anything to do with the truth because no person alive could make that statement with even a grain of truth in it and doing it knowingly.
September 12th, 2007 at 10:19 pm
Ron # 161,
I sincerely apologize for my outburst to Tex # 153 but that much blatand disregard and uncaring for dealing with the truth just threw me over the top for a second. Keep up the great work and attempts to bring truth and clarity to this situation.
Walk a Mile, See a Mile
September 12th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
Tex,
Another note, I am curious why every time you post you insult, ridicule and spew defamation of character with almost every word that you type and you accuse all of these people of doing what you are doing while these people that you are doing this to has NOT been doing these things. Methinks that there is something “very funny” going on here as in, are you receiving compensation from the corporation or anyone involved with the corporation to do exactly what you are doing? Not accusing - only asking because that is the only thing that can explain your attitude and viciousness. I apologize if I am wrong.
September 12th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
168/team
I like how at freetheibo they edify Rich Devos and Jay Van Andel. Thats great! Edify the dead guy and retired guy.
HEY!!!
Quixtar is run by Devos/VanAndel STILL! Its run by Jr.’s.
Dick, Doug, Steve, etc… they ALL went platinum by the rules. They represent their parents strengths and have their own strengths as well.
September 12th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
157 Matt,
i am not an ibo.
i have answered these questions too much, click my blog name in read, go to my site and read my biography as it relates to why i blog. In fact, i will probably add a “top ten reasons why i have blogged about this stuff”
p.s. did you miss the memo, you are suppossed to resign your iboship. Oh yeah- your downline is all Quiting so say bye to Q12
(by the way congrats thought for doing it, its takes a some consistent persistent effort, people skills, serving others, etc…. good job dude!)
September 13th, 2007 at 10:09 am
steven: Your post is simply too long. You are welcome to condense it into a shorter format, or perhaps you can post it on another website and we can link to it from here.
Conan_78: Which comment? If one is missing, try resubmitting and we’ll watch for it.
September 13th, 2007 at 10:23 am
JT,
I read your site and your bio. It doesn’t say why you left Q. Can you shed some light on this for us? The site is mainly anti-TEAM. What is your level of exposure to TEAM? I see that you are very passionate about Orrin so there must be some reason. Please elaborate.
September 13th, 2007 at 10:44 am
If you’re not an IBO then how do you know so much about what’s going on in the inside, and on the more important note, WHY DO YOU CARE? it doesn’t even affect you. Secondly to whoever said that the NAO lip product is good, Nope it wasn’t lipgloss it was actually a set of 2 loose mineral pigments and maybe you love them but I would pick M.A.C over them anyday. As for retailing, trust me I’ve tried to retail for my boyfriend to help him out. My own best friend told me I’m crazy for buying “some cheap product for $13″ when M.A.C would cost me less.
Also what is up with the name bashing? I thought there was a court order that Quixtar/Amway has to take off any disparaging posts against TEAM. I guess they aren’t following the rules.
September 13th, 2007 at 11:07 am
I just want to say that I first came to this blog to get both sides of the story because I like to know what I am doing and why before I make a decision. I’ve been reading the blogs from day one and have commented here and there. What I found is that it is so easy to criticize TEAM just because it is on the table open for discussion. What I have learned from the dedicated detractors of TEAM is that they don’t know what they are talking about. Comments made by Tex and Bridgett for example describe TEAM practices so inaccurately that I cannot find a way to keep my mind open to seeing any valid points in any of their arguments. They obviously do not know TEAM. JT has put a lot of effort (building an anti-TEAM website and all) but even his comments are not accurate so there went his credibility with me. (He does have quite a bit of passion though!) I’ve concluded that very few people really know how other Q orgs really operate enough to give us any insight as to who is building right from wrong. Note this example from Randy Haugen’s post.. “Then in the summer of 2006, through a series of events, after listening to the Brady’s speak at a function in June, I got the impression that they believed in what they were saying, and I knew they had had some growth, but didn’t know much about their organization. We didn’t know their techniques, methods, or philosophy.” That was Randy Haugen, a double diamond in the biz forever. He didn’t even know how TEAM worked! I am sure people like Tex, Bridgett and JT do not know either. Based on evidence presented via first hand accounts of what transpired and emails written by Orrin to Q, it sure does seem like TEAM was blessed by Q until very recently and that Orrin was sincerely trying to make the biz better for all of us. He is far from a “Rosie Ruiz” which I find so childish JT. And talking about yourself in third person is a little creepy too. To those of you who are on TEAM and reading these blogs, don’t make decisions based on people that don’t know the TEAM business, base it on your experience so far with TEAM. The courts will sort out the rest. Good luck to all and to all a goodnight!
September 13th, 2007 at 11:20 am
170 Rich,
Alticor has been fair - they have blogged posts from both sites that don’t allign with their rules.
I have had over 10 posts not posted. other pro-amway bloggers have been blocked.
But here is the difference btwn freetheibo and quixtar…
FREETHEIBO DELETES YOUR ENTIRE HISTORY! Over 80 of mine! Alticor does not delete your history!
September 13th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
Hey Jthompson- kinda hurts when someone else, just because they want to can delete you or just change the rules at anytime, now you understand why we want to leave!
September 13th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
You still here JT?
Hmph…I thought you took your ball and went home. What’s wrong…kinda lonely all by yourself?
September 13th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
I find these posts amazing, and saddening in a way. The bottom line is simply this; Quixtar is a business, based on products. TEAM is a business based on selling motivational CDs, books, seminars, etc. Team used the Quixtar platfrom to sell their tools, because they needed a product to get behind; after all, who would have willingly signed up with some Guy with a funny name years ago? Now it seems that TEAM thinks they can go off on their own, and be a “motivational training system”, which leads me to believe that hey are finally drinking their own KoolAid, and in big gulps at this point! I have seen the real people behind the smiling faces on stage, and I say bravo Quixtar, and hope people finally have their heads out of the koolaid bottle long enough to get some clarity!
This is my opinion, based upon actual real life experiences with this matter than would make you shudder.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
j thompson
so far i have yet to have one of my posts show up i have sent many in responce to things you have said and none be posted sounds to me like you are inside the corporation
feel free to call me
oh wait you wont cause this wont be posted
September 13th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
steven utah…: For the record, you posted two other comments earlier this evening and posted a comment on 6 Sep. Also, it’s best not to blog your phone number.
September 13th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
steven utah and Utah are not related.
September 13th, 2007 at 10:38 pm
174. jthompson
THANKS. I appreciate your comments and edification; you did learn something from that system the team promotes so much. I just read your blog also.
I think everyone should read THE ANATOMY OF PEACE. It talks about how we de-humanize people which mentally allows us to be hostile towards someone else. The example in the book is the Jew/Christian/Islam….war. And it is easy to do in this W vs. Q situation. In fact, I did it to YOU when I first started reading the blogs; and I even read the book(I guess I need to read it again).
After reading your blog, I think YOU and I are kindred spirits(A Robbins term). See, someone from the team gave me a book to read out of the “system” but he did NOT contact me. This lead me to Barnes & Noble to get more success type books and to Anthony Robbins TAPES. After 30days of Personal Power, it changed my life and I had to do something, and that is when I CONTACTED the gentlemen that gave me the book. He showed me the Q plan(my cousin showed me Amway in 96) and I got started in Q in late 2000. If it was not for that one act of giving me a book I would not be on the planet today; well, I would be taking a dirt nap. Why do I also feel a little like you, I had THREE older brothers, and I am tickelish; I root for the underdog also. (A vs Team is like Goliath vs. David.)
If it would have been called Amway I would NOT have gotten started. I also liked the idea of the partner companies, that made the most sense to me. Things have changed in the business since then and I honestly see it as impossible to do an Amway business so Q12 is already a thing of the past. Do YOU think they will send me the Q12 check for this past fiscal year if I quit before they send it?
I was not aware of the non-compete addition that was added(again, they may have sent me something but how many people go through the biz comp. Also, I believe they automatically renew my business as a Platinum and above(?)It is hard to give up the money and team you built because of a little rule change. Also, I always believed the corporation could not “change the deal” without IBOA approval so my first reaction to the name change was it was a lie/rumor. I actually promoted this IBOA authority to people(my bad and my fault). This we have found to be completely inaccurate.
Did you read Orrin’s letter to Doug Devoss in 2005? Orrin is a human and has a different business philosophy and view than the corporation leaders.
It’s kind of like the new Brittany Spears fan youtube video, “she’s a human being”; actually that is kind of scary but entertaining – you should watch it.
Don’t you think this blogging topic is kind of like showing the plan after you first get started and someone says NO. I felt like, why would you say no. Does that mean I am wrong? No, they just weren’t looking or didn’t believe me or they just had a different opinion. Does that mean they are BAD/WRONG; no they just have a different opinion. There are groups of people with differing opinions and in 6 months the separation of those with an Amway vs. Team mentality will be made and THEN, time and the marketplace will cast the deciding vote.
It was a pleasure to blog with you and my prayer is that God grace ALL your future endeavors. J
September 13th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
179 JT,
Of course they haven’t deleted your entire history on here, when you are parroting exactly what they want you to say then they will keep you on as long as they agree with you. Like I said previously, while I had great respect for the DeVos and VanAndel families, this situation has opened my eyes in a lot of ways. I have been doing a LOT of research and it is unbelievable what I found out. There have been quite a few diamonds and up that were the “darlings of Amway/Quixtar” UNTIL they confrong Amway/Quixtar with high prices, openness with IBO’s, etc. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them literally overnight, instead of being the “Amway/Quixtar Poster IBO’s”, suddenly have not been following the rules, building improperly and/or illegally and are terminated immediately. It makes me feel/believe that Amway/Quixtar is either stating that only people that don’t follow rules and build a buisness illegally can achieve success in Amway/Quixtar, OR, they just use that accusation as the answer for every IBO that challenges them and they don’t see any kind of need to at least come up with different excuses to get rid of the successful IBO’s. One other thing that strongly makes me question Amway/Quixtar is that a non-IBO who has no stake in whatever happens in this situarion is consistently, intentionally and with very strong hatred constantly posting on every site that you can get and stay on and on your own site, with extreme viciousness, attack TEAM and with extreme desperation, try to protect and defend the coporation’s actions. What is your “stake” in this and who is paying/giving you this stake that is causing you to show such desperation in defending and protecting the Amway/Quixtar. (Only a question)
September 14th, 2007 at 12:16 am
NoKoolAid- Do actual life experiences mean you are an IBO and know about the TEAM business? More than someone like a double diamond Randy Haugen? You must be at least a founder’s diamond to make such a statement, or…..you are not an IBO but an employee of Q. I have heard that many employees of Q have treated the IBOs fairly prior to this fiasco at least as fairly as they had the power to do. It appears you are not one of them. I’d like to say thanks to the Alticor blog moderator for posting all of my blogs so far and to all the hard working employees of Q that are just trying to do their job. We just wanted to leave. I wish Q would have just swallowed their pride and let us and everyone else that doesn’t wish to build Amway go. It truley would have been a win-win. BTW, why no KoolAid?
September 14th, 2007 at 2:57 am
Tex, one other question I have for you. You state you have been taken advantage of for decades. I guess that means you are in the business. If you are in the business, but attended 4 TEAM open meetings and a seminar, aren’t you guilty of cross lining? Even if you said you didn’t know it was a Quixtar business, you would have seen people drinking XS the first meeting. Yet you say you went to 4? You clearly would have known it was Quixtar and that you were cross lining. And you say you have cd’s from multiple los’? I can’t say for sure, but I think that would be considered cross lining as well. That carries a severe penalty - I think you can be terminated for that.
Moderator, as an employee of Quixtar, I would think you would now have to act on that, since you are now aware of rules violation. I’m sure the corporation has ways of tracking down who he is and taking the appropriate action. Quixtar says they enforce the rules when they are made aware of violations. I guess we’ll see.
September 14th, 2007 at 9:56 am
“I will speak ill of no man–and speak all the good I know of everybody.”-Ben Franklin
Can we practice that? Or is that too much to ask? I have chosen to leave Amway/Quixtar but firmly believe that I need to take the high road in this and not speak negatively about Quixtar/Amway–I don’t want what I say to potentially ruin someone else’s chance to build a business with Amway/Quixtar. They will have enough to overcome as it is.
September 14th, 2007 at 10:42 am
To All - I apologize for some of my “lazy” communciations. Jim Rohn, my first mentor said “Casualness leads to Casualty” in Communication.
My “Excuse” - Active Q/A IBOS do not blog for the most part. My plethora of communications have tried to balance out the Anti-Amway posts by TEAM bloggers. In my great quality of blogs, i have not had time to re-read, edit, etc…. my quality has suffered at times
These problems are fixed on my own blog where the grammer, readability, perspective, etc… are much better.
183 Steven utah - i agree W/ moderator- its smart not to post your phone number, i am glad Alticor blocked that. You can email me or comment on my blog site.
176 “why you left Q/A” - Great Question. Difficult one for me to answer, i will attempt to answer on the orrinwoodward.blogstop within within a few days.
But the clues are in my background/mentors.
I am trying to balance transparentcy with getting too personal on the internet.
I have 3 main dreams/visions/callings in my life. 2 of them are completely outside the vision/cause of Amway or specifically the IBO team i have associated with.
September 14th, 2007 at 10:48 am
TEAM
Distinction:
Quixtar did not change the rules. Q/A never had in their rules “Team Approach”. Q/A had great patience in helping TEAM succeed with their innovative ways and at the same time making sure Q/A mlm is done with integrity and w/o mis-representation of Q/A mlm opportunity, etc….
The Aug 9 meeting scheduling by Q/A said, “We are now committed to our Q/A Business Tranformation Program and this includes us no longer waiting for TEAM to get in Right-Standing”
its like Your Parents, you keep coming home after Midnight, breaking your curfew, parents keep saying to come home on time, and finally the parents have had enough! You come home by midnight or you are grounded!
Teenager says that parents have broken the rules. NO. Parents have lost their Patience.
This issue seems to be TEAMs main rallying points. I am going to write an article on this in detail.
Q/A rules did not change.
September 14th, 2007 at 11:41 am
187 (high prices, Gone!) - name the diamonds, OUTSIDE of Team. thank you.
BEFORE i became a Quixtar IBO in 2001, at age 21.
I read about 6 books on Amway. My fav was from Bob Crisp, a former triple diamond. I read the books by The President of Lee College - Dr. Paul Conn. I read about 20 books (all the good ones that were out back then) on the Network Marketing Industry.. that mention Amway/Quixtar a little bit.
I have been in Leadership ibo meetings with my los, i have been to night owls, 25 ibo weekend 3 day functions through multiple teams.
I have talked 1on1 with ibos that lead teams that are 5x the size of TEAM (b/c of my position in the los of my past upline)
I LOVE the potential of a mlm business. I LOVE the potential of ibo teams/toolsystems, etc..
I was sponsored into an mlm when i was 18 years old. I know what i am talking about.
TEAM needs to understand how the industry works, they can see how “the tail was trying to wag the dog”
T vs Q - factual story (on orrinwoodward blog website)
September 14th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
JT,
I think another good example of the tail wagging the dog is Sam Walton. It’s time for a change and I think TEAM is on it. (thank goodness for me)
Also, no matter how many times you say Q did not change the rules, the fact is that they did and are still changing them. Q did approve of TEAM approach, there is a custom SA4400 issued by Q that proves this.
Lastly, I get that you have a fair amount of historical mlm knowledge but you didn’t answer my question about how much exposure have you had with TEAM. Your extraordinary efforts to discredit Orrin (Anti-TEAM website) and calling him childish names must come from somewhere. I’m hoping you are not one of those people that gets a high off being the devils advocate with a reward being attention. Please enlighten us on your experiences specific to TEAM.
September 14th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
JT,
The rules certainly did change. Please stop lying. As I said in another thread: If you don’t like what TEAM did, I can understand that. But don’t lie so that others will agree with your opinion.
The rules did change. The material was approved by Q. No rules of conduct were broken. Any person making a statement to the contrary is either misinformed or is lying.
Stop it.
September 14th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
jthompson
Good you know people 5x larger than TEAM….what is their growth? We’ve been around 8 years. Were Q’s #1 GROWING team EVERY year. Let’s just say they let go of their “franchise player”.
September 14th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
Hey I was wondering why my first post from late last night/early this morning was not posted. Please advise.
September 14th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
jthompson #193:
With all your vast knowledge & experience you obviously have to be no less than a Diamond. What’s that you say? Not even in the business? And yet you have hour after hour to post your vitriolic, useless rants here? And you’re not a corporate plant or employee. Hmmm. Guess that just makes you a pitiful loser with way too much time to kill!
September 14th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
jt…..you need some back up dude, I admire your persistence.
Caution: don’t mix those “5x” diamonds you speak of who may have alot of AMWAY International business. I wonder, how much % Quixtar business do they have; how is it growing in the US? How much are they sharing in the “tools” business with their downline platinums?
As a business owner, I too would be most concerned about my biggest business, that is understandable.
NAFC=Amway, IBOA=Quixtar…..Quixtar to Amway favors WHO….NAFC or those only with Quixtar ibo’s?
September 14th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Part One of Three:
1. Why is the corporation so against anyone who wants to leave leaving? Did the corporation put my friends in my business? Including the ones that were in Amway and did it, and now are mad at me because they say I lied to them. The corporation has cost me friends as well as more money.
For 2 1/2 years I was in the 9-4-2 , with practically no growth. Every year I started back over with one or two people. Since we started using TEAM Approach, I added more in my first 2 months than I did in 2 1/2 years. I started making some money. And yes, TEAM does teach retailing. We tell people this business isn’t for everybody, but everybody eats and drinks. People that don’t want to build a business, we will sign them up as a customer. However, even that can be difficult. I hear a lot of people talk how they can get a 16 oz energy drink in a store for less than I have to sell it at just to break even with tax and shipping.
Why has my household supplies gotten more and more expensive, and now when I look at retail outlets, I can get stuff that works just as good as ours for half the price? Why is Alticor double dipping? They sell stuff to Quixtar through Access Business Group at a nice little profit, then Quixtar marks it up even more. Did Access Business Group exist when the business was Amway?
Why does, of the 40 or so products I have in my house, only 1 product have the name Quixtar? The corporation stated part of the reason for the name change was because Quixtar wasn’t a household name. What have they really done to make it so? I don’t think 2 or 3 commercials in a 3 year time frame constitutes making an effort to make a household name. How many of Kellogg’s products have their name on it? I’m sure a lot more than 2 1/2%. Same with Tide, Mr. Clean, Crest, Colgate, Downy, and the list can go on and on.
September 14th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
Part 2 of 3:
Why hasn’t JT answered #176?
Why has Tex been getting ripped off for tools for decades? If I felt I was being ripped off for decades, I don’t think I would be around any longer. That’s why I’m resigning from the corporation - they’re ripping me off. Tex, if you have really been ripped off, meaning the tools you have been purchasing have had no value, why keep buying them? If you continue to do so with such animosity, aren’t you just fueling the fire? You complain about people being ripped off for overpriced tools, and you keep buying them? At what point do you start earning money off of tools? I would assume that you haven’t yet. You say the tools are a - , yet you aren’t earning anything on them because you haven’t built a business to that point. Am I mistaken in that conclusion? Please don’t take that personal, I don’t mean it to be mean or anything. I’ve just always felt that I, when wanting to be successful in anything, should learn from those who have the fruit on the tree. You obviously like to read a lot. What was the last good book you read? You state you don’t buy books for more than a dollar if I remember reading correctly. Go to the library - you can check books out there for free - pretty good price, huh? Read How to Win Friends and Influence People. Or check out Frank Bettger’s How I raised myself from failure to success in selling. Another great one. I used one of the principles from that book just today. You are probably a very smart person. I just hope you are using some of that intelligence constructively to make a positive difference in people’s lives. That’s what God gave you it for.
To the statement that for each leader resigning that it’s only 1,000 pv at most, no, it’s a lot more. People, when faced with a choice, follow leaders usually more than corporations. Especially after what has happened with this corporation. They have made liars out of a lot of people. Add in that many of our leaders are also our friends, and we respect them and have respected them before the business, and my choice is pretty easy. I will certainly maintain my friendship with my upline who was my friend before this business.
September 14th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Part 3 of 3:
As to the moderators on here - I don’t know what has not been posted. I have seen some pretty harsh stuff posted, so I’m very curious as to what you are not posting. It might have something to do with information that could be used in litigation, and therefore don’t want it out. From your perspective I could understand, although I don’t necessarily agree with it.
I guess the corporation doesn’t really need North America now that we’re their smallest market. This name change could be a strategic step. Many IBO’s were unhappy with Amway and was going to walk. They change the name, give a couple concessions to keep those bringing in the money happy, long enough to build assets to grow their international business. Now that their international operations are fully where they want infrastructure wise, they don’t need us. I guess the Dex, Britt, the Halsey’s, and all the other leaders that kept this company afloat when Alticor didn’t have the international presence where they wanted it aren’t needed any longer. It’s sad. It’s like their being put out to pasture. In a few years, you will see Amway products on the shelves of Wal-Mart. I for one will say I will never buy their product though.
For any still around at the fiscal year 2008 end, I wonder what Quixtar’s revenue will be. I would wager, if I was a betting man, it will be under $1B. They are losing to much money. And that’s not even considering if anything should happen in Canada with the largest group and majority of volume up there. That would devastate North American operations. Time will tell.
People of integrity expect to be believed. When they are not, they let time prove them right.
You will hear more about TEAM - we are the best leadership development organization there is in this country. We are going to a million people and will make a difference in our country and in lots of peoples lives.
September 15th, 2007 at 12:04 am
I wonder if this will get posted. Let’s see…
posting #189 9/14 at 1:54 a.m. - still pending moderation.
Posting #190 at 2:57 - approved.
Posting #198 at 3:29 p.m. - still pending moderation - that one just asked where was my first post (#189). Wonder what is so dangerous about asking that question.
Posting #200 at 7:29 p.m. asking again where is my first post - pending moderation.
Lots of other posts have been posted since - not like they can say they haven’t been able to get to it…
Guess I’m not supposed to question the corporations actions…I think history shows they don’t like people who speak up. Don’t bother terminating me, I’m resigning (oh wait, so were Orrin and Chris, but you gave them termination letters).
September 15th, 2007 at 1:02 am
#178 DSLChicago,
Can you let me know specifically where I’ve “described TEAM practices inaccurately”?
I am genuinely seeking understanding. I don’t mean at all to be combative.
My very first few posts over on the Go TEAM,Go thread inaccurately said that stacking was illegal. And ibofightback corrected me.
I apologize for that. I was wrong.
Other than that, I don’t know what you are referring to.
I don’t remember saying what TEAM’s practices are. I’ve responded to TEAM members when they say things that might not be accurate or, I ask them to site their sources when they state things as fact rather than opinion, or clarify their point.
Also, this is not the first time that I’ve been lumped in the same sentence as Tex, from TEAM members, here at Alticor Media Blog, which I find kind of amusing. If you know us from the Opportunity Zone, and the sparring (sp?) that has gone on, it’s just, well, amusing.
And considering (from my vantage point) that we seem to have very different “styles” of communicating, when people lump us together, I hope that they don’t think I communicate in the same way. But maybe I do and that could be a blind spot I have.
Also, writing on the Internet like this is very limiting, particularly since most communication is non-verbal. So I would not be surprised if things that I’ve written were taken in a different way in which I meant it.
I posted something on Sept 2 over at OZ regarding my thoughts on this particular Blog.
http://www.realquixtarblog.com/2007/08/29/Keep-it-real-keep-it-civil.aspx#comments
I haven’t been over here (at AMB) much. Just ’cause it seems very negative here. It’s an ugly messy yucky divorce and I don’t think any of us are having a good time (except the “professional” Amway/Quixtar critics who watch all this as a soap opera and forget that this actually involves REAL people, REAL families, REAL futures. Kind of sick and twisted, really).
But anyway, please let me know where I am inaccurate. The truth is something that I value more than “being right”. And so if I am to swallow my pride and apologize, I am all for that.
Thanks.
September 15th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
JT-SO IF QUIXTAR/AMYWAY IS SO GREAT AND YOU DEFEND THEM SO FANATICALLY, WHY AREN’T YOU STILL IN THE BUSINESS?
September 15th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Where are my husband’s posts? Did they hit a nerve or upon a damaging truth that the corporation does not want out?
September 17th, 2007 at 9:21 am
Jim: The content of your comment was fine; however, it was too long for us to approve. You are welcome to split it up and resubmit in chunks, or shorten overall.
Inquiringmindswantt2know: And that would be…?
September 17th, 2007 at 9:39 am
Jim: Never mind, you’d already taken the time to do that. Thank you for resubmitting, and sorry for the delay. Your comments are now posted in their entirety.
September 17th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Bridgett,
At your request, here are a few examples….
8/19- You said “It is horrifying that we have IBOs defending an organization that teaches IBOs how to be the LEAST profitable” DLSChicago comment: How much exposure do you have with TEAM that allows you to make that comment?
8/20- You said: “The gimmick that it appears you do, is that you are stacking non-builders (customers for all intents and purposes), and selling them on the idea that they not only get products at IBO cost, BUT, they will get an additional 25% back on their personal use after a little bit of time, as you put 75 100PVers in their leg. And you, as the Platinum, reap ALL the bonus money on that pass-up volume, because no one in that leg is entitled to ANY of the bonus money, because they have no width (side volume) and they do not fulfill the 50 PV retail rule, which would entitle them to bonus money on their downline volume.” DLSChicago comment: Here is where you accuse TEAM of a gimmick that we do not do. It sounds like you think we build straight down one team without encouraging width. We promote building two teams at a time and teaching others to do the same. We do not recruit IBOs for customers for all “intents and purposes”. You have this completely wrong. I’ll repeat myself, you obviously do not know how TEAM builds.
8/11- You said: “Is that how TEAM IBOs are trained to talk about “the Company”, that they can’t even say the name of the company? Seems George Orwellian.” DLSChicago comment: TEAM IBOs were not trained to not say the name of the company. If you knew more about TEAM, you would know this.
It is these comments and others caused me to lump you in with Tex and JT. I don’t think you are blogging for attention like some others but I do feel you don’t have your facts straight about how TEAM builds yet feel obligated to voice criticism toward some inaccurate version instead. Get the facts straight before you judge…..please.
September 18th, 2007 at 11:07 am
#209 DSLChicago,
Thanks for pointing those things out. All the comments you referenced, were comments in RESPONSE to comments TEAM members wrote on this blog.
If you are telling me that these particular TEAM members are misguided, and not builiding their businesses the way TEAM leadership has instructed, then I stand corrected.
Two things I’d like to point out/ask for clarification based on what YOU said:
1) Building two “teams” (legs) is not as profitable if you had more width.
Do the numbers yourself. A 4,000 PV business with decent width is more profitable than two legs at 7,500 PV.
AND, if you build only two legs at 7500 PV, and you have no side volume outside those two legs, then you are “just” a Platinum. If you have 2,500 PV outside those two legs, then you’d be a Sapphire and could start to tap in to some bonuses that you are not entitled to as a Platinum. THAT money gets passed Upline.
If you say you are a Platinum, that doesn’t tell me anything regarding how profitable you are. You can wear the pin, but you may be making less money than someone with a “lesser” pin.
Same thing with a Diamond pin. You may be a Diamond, but that tells me nothing regarding how much money you make AND how much money your Platinums make.
So I have “issues” when people site how many Platinums and Diamonds they broke as evidence of their “success”.
2)TEAM may mention the name of the company, which right now is QUIXTAR. Do they mention that Quixtar OWNS the comp plan and supplies the MONEY to move THEIR porducts? My understanding is that Quixtar is mentioned as soley a vendor/supplier. But, like I said in the beginning of this comment, if this is not how TEAM leaders teach, then we have some misguided IBOs, which ALL LOAs have a few of them.
Thanks for continuing the dialogue.
Appreciate it.
September 18th, 2007 at 11:09 am
DLSChicago,
I’m sorry, I keep typing DSL instead of DLS.
It’s DLS, DLS, DLS, DLS.
September 18th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Bridgett,
I provided the references. I stand by them. When you talk on a blog about how an organization is or isn’t building you are talking to everyone. When you say that you are “horrified” (very strong word) that IBOs are defending an organization (my organization)that teaches IBOs how to be the least profitable you are not talking to one person but to many. And per your latest response, once again, you continue to show that you don’t understand how TEAM builds. I didn’t say we build ONLY two teams, I said we build two teams at a time. Very big difference. Please please get your facts straight Bridgett. You assume way too much and are misguiding people with your inaccurate version about how TEAM builds. If you truly appreciate the truth more than being right please reconsider your previous statements.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
bridgett,
while I can’t speak for all Teams, I do know that we were taught to continue to add teams as our first one and then second one grew. we were never told or encouraged to ONLY build 2 or to not add a third until after we broke silver.
in fact, just the opposite. it was explained that we were leaving money on the table for pass up if we didn’t add more teams as the first 2 grew. but we don’t do it right away. we focus on helping the newest guy in both teams for as long as it takes to get them going.it’s always our responnsibility to help the newest person.
but the specific method of building those first 2 teams helps to insure that all team members have SOME people in their team …especially that newest guy, who may have trouble getting started.
know of one frontline guy who claimed he wasn’t sure he wanted to build a biz…just buy.. and then looked 6 months later and had 50 people downline from him. what would he have had if he’d been in a 9-4-2 group ? probably zip ..he’s since decided to plug in and build this…and is excited that he fell into a group of people where he was given a leg up while he “thought” about the business:-)
and no, we don’t totally do one and then do another..again, we’d drop some bucks doing that…we are taught to build them in conjunction…usually starting the second team after a few weeks…or sooner…depends on your level of committment and how fast you want to go
I am proud to be a part of Team ! they are not the only group of people concerned about giving and helping others. but they ARE the ones who has helped me more than can ever be described ..and I will follow these leaders.
PS…Q/A may NOT be just a supplier to their proponents , but that’s ALL they ever were for me. they never drove the miles, they never spent the hours. I, REPEAT, I built my business… they basically filled the same slot as the partner stores did. they sent mdse when I ordered it & when I qualified for money back, they sent it. I told my prospectsa when I met with them who I was associated with..QUIXTAR….NEVER tried to hide it…stated up front that we were a different business model owned by the same parent company.
but AMWAY will never come out of my mouth when speaking to prospects.I know what my future success rate will be if I do. I heard it too many times ” As long as it’s NOT actually Amway, Ok.”
so now, it IS actually Amway again ? NO WAY.
GO TEAM !AND LET’S MAKE IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE !
September 18th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
Bridgett, TEAM builds more than 2 legs. But we do it two legs at a time. Yes, at the beginning we do not make as much building depth vs. width, but what we trade in early earnings is security. Once a leg “matures” and has leadership you can move on because you have duplicated yourself. Working in more than two legs at the same time makes for busy folks. In the long run, by the time your 6th leg hits 7500, your first leg is Gigantic, Second is Huge, third is Enormous, fourth is Incredible, fifth is Plump and sixth is big. Your income now is beyond the scope of reason. This is why TEAM focuses so much on leadership, teaching others thru a systematic process of helping others. Leverage and duplication. What is so wrong about that, cause in the long run, we ALL win, even Quixtar would have if they didn’t get so greedy with the pricing issue. Lower prices is like lowering taxes. More people spend and revenue goes up. Oh well.
September 18th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
am founder Platinum and i have two legs at 7500pv and 2500 outside but what i know right now is to be saphire i need to have for a year 2500 or more if some thing like now(quixtar fights)and i go lees than 2500 for one month just for problems of this company they not give me the saphire,ummmm!!!how many like me without bonus just for bad moves of quixtar,,how many dlls won’t pay????
how want’s to save money?? A:QUIXTAR / WHO WANT TO MAKE MONEY? A:US
TRUTH:Q/A SAVE MONEY AND MAKE MONEY SO WHO CARES ABOUT US?
I MAKE MORE MONEY WITH TEAM,THATS A FACT
September 19th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
#213 dannie and #214 Thunderstruck
THANK YOU for taking the time to explain IN DETAIL that TEAM teaches to build two “teams” (legs) AT A TIME, but they don’t stop at just two legs.
THANK YOU for taking the time to educate me. I appreciate it.
Though I don’t necessarily agree with this approach (since this approach only makes sense long-term and for attaining Emerald and above pins, and doesn’t take in to consideration that some people may have more modest goals) “horrifying” is too strong of a word to me, now that I know how TEAM builds.
#213 dannie P.S. I don’t agree that Quixtar/Amway is just a supplier like a Partner Store. Others have written why, so I do not feel I’d be saying anything new. Even though I disagree, I do appreciate your honesty.
#212 DLSChicago,
Sorry I missed your “at a time”. My bad for reading too fast.
I’ve found it helpful to break up text in to smaller paragraphs to allow the eye some breathing room.
And I’ve thanked your fellow TEAM members for taking the time to explain clearly, without personally attacking me, how TEAM builds.
#215 mex_team
I believe you have to have 2,500 PV outside your two 7,500 PV legs for 12 months in order to be a FOUNDERS Sapphire. But you need only 6 months out of the fiscal year to be a “regular” Sapphire.
Just like the difference between a “regular” Platinum and a Founders Platinum.
You had to “hold” your volume for six months to be a Platinum–same rule applies in order to qualify for Sapphire and beyond.
By the way, does everyone know the difference between a Founders Platinum and a Q-12 Platinum? All Q-12 Platinums are Founders Platinum, but not all Founders Platinum are Q-12 Platinums.
One is more profitable than the other.
Thank you all for continuing the dialogue. I do not wish to “demonize” anyone. We are all people, trying to do the best that we can.
Peace.
September 20th, 2007 at 12:23 am
THANK YOU Bridgett for being the first person to judge but then take the time to understand TEAM approach. There is so much more to the TEAM organization that is not understood. It isn’t perfect…nothing is.
I am sure we wouldn’t necessarily agree with how you build either but I certainly respect your right to do so.
My team was taught to build properly and we do not stack. I do not know any other TEAM groups that promote stacking and nothing in the TEAM BSM have supported it either. We promote customer volume to get bonus money happening downline and try to build stable, high quality teams that work on leadership while building the business. We promote width and I never had problems introducing the Quixtar name. Most people never heard of it. Very few looked it up online either. Amway is another story.
I am proud of my team and the TEAM in general. I don’t mind discussing building models or theories but I cannot stand by and allow accusations to be made when it is clear that those making them have inaccurate versions of how TEAM builds in their heads. I believe Quixtar created and promoted these inaccurate versions.
I am sad that this happened and feel betrayed by Quixtar personally. My team did nothing wrong. I do thank the blogs for helping me understand the misconceptions out there. And thank you Bridgett for taking the time to understand. I apologize if my comments were too harsh but my integrity, my business and a portion of my life is on the line in the words that are said here.
September 23rd, 2007 at 2:50 pm
DLSChicago #217,
I agree, there is so much more to the TEAM organization that is not understood. It isn’t a perfect scam, nothing is.
I understand the TEAM approach. I went to several TEAM Opens and a Seminar. The word “Quixtar” was not uttered a single time, Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward was given credit for what Quixtar does, retail was either not mentioned or only so briefly mentioned it could have been missed entirely if the prospect/IBO wasn’t paying close attention, and tools were heavily promoted at the Seminar and available in the back of the room. Disgusting.
I now have a request from a Quixtar lawyer to discuss these and probably other issues.
Unfortunately, most other companies may not break some of the same rules that TEAM did, but they still have a similar tool scam as part of their modus operandi.
September 24th, 2007 at 1:33 am
TEX#218,
TEAM did not break any rules. Why do you keep saying that they did? Repeating a lie will not make it true.
September 24th, 2007 at 5:52 am
Tex #218:
Now that you’re so cozy to the legal team that’s been running things for awhile, what have they to say about Q telling all the North American diamonds in 2006 that only 3.4% of all sales were made to people outside the bus.? And what have they to say about Qs stance on transparency to the new IBO about tool profits? Will the administrator put in print here the answers to these questions? And here’s a big one: is the hush hush policy on tools in any way influenced by product pricing? Since you’re source of information is primarily affadavits, statements, and what the lawyers are telling you, why do you choose to believe someone who’s agenda is so obvious? Why do you believe corporate spin as opposed to folks like Chuck Goetschel and Orrin Woodward who have first hand knowledge? How long have you known Orrin, Chuck, and the others? You have read for yourself what those who do know them personally have to say. There’s a big difference in the relationship you have with those you have sided with and the relationship of those who stand with TEAM and know their leaders personally. It comes down to why you’re here, and why we’re here, and believe me that difference is obvious to even the most casual observer.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:02 am
DLS Chicago:
Great post. You are right on, and it is obvious to everyone taking an unbiased look at this situation. What TEAM has taught you is exactly what I’ve been taught as well, and that goes for everyone I’ve ever overheard at any event. (I know we aren’t supposed to crossline, but at a large event you can’t help but hear some things). The consistency of the TEAM organization is astounding, and the way that TEAM has pulled together througout our separation is a strong testament to the uniqueness of this organization. I don’t know if you’ve resigned or not, but I only have 4 1/2 months to go! We will definately be the largest organization in the world. Anyway, great post!
September 24th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
Tex-
4 opens and 1 seminar does not an expert make………. sorry Tex.
You’ll have to provide more credibility than that before anyone takes any of your points seriously.
See post #159
Lastly, I know it’s your life’s mission to get to the bottom of the tool income situation. But my question to you is why?
September 24th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
Jerad #219,
Quixtar listed several rules they were breaking, and had been breaking, for YEARS. Do you think they would lie about something this important in court documents? Are you crazy? Repeatedly denying the facts does not make them untrue, either.
makingadiffernece #220,
I wouldn’t call it “cozy”, yet. I have only talked with them briefly on the phone.
However, I don’t need their input on the retail sales figures, as I know from personal experience the upline doesn’t care about retail nearly as much as they do about tool profits. What makes you think I would tell you if I did know more? I’m not like Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward and Co., showing my hand while playing poker. I haven’t asked them the tool profit question, but have told them where I stand on this topic. I think you can follow the UK and get a good idea of what will happen in the U.S., and then we will find the REAL reason for all of the resignations. I think there is a link between Quixtar becoming lazy on product pricing and the MASSIVE tool profits. Nobody on the IBOAI Board really cares about the product pricing nearly as much as they care about continuing their tool profits. Do the terms “asleep at the wheel” and “the fox guarding the hen house” mean anything to you? My source of information is not primarily affadavits, they are direct statements and consistent evidence from lawsuits, and certainly NOT from what the lawyers are telling me. What is the “obvious” agenda in your eyes?
I don’t believe the corporate spin, they have also not been completely open and honest. But Orrin and Chuck are lying cowardly “kinpins” who I have zero respect for, actually negative respect, if that is possible. I have asked Orrin, Chuck, Ron Simmons, and many others to tell how much tool profits they make, and have received silence in return.
Let’s be clear why I’m here: To put an end to the tool scam. To stop the financial lies and abuse that has affected literally millions of current and former Amway/Quixtar Distributors/IBO’s for the past 3-4 decades, at the cost (or profit, depending on your position) of hundreds of millions to billions of dollars. One of the biggest scams in the history of the world.
I’m here because I am a commissioned U.S. Naval Officer (inactive), who took the standard lifetime oath to protect the U.S. Constitution (and by extention, the other laws of the land) against all enemies, foreign and domestic…so help me God. The only way I can not fulfill this pledge is to resign my commission, which I have not, and do not plan to do. I suggest other active and inactive U.S. military officers (and other fellow Americans who want to join us) reading this consider your oath and follow it.
I am here because my Mother and Father taught me to do the right thing, I told them I would, and I am doing it to the best of my abilities.
I am here because I am a Christian and believe in the golden rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. To be clear, if I were a lying cowardly “kingpin”, I would hope someone would slap me side the head and knock some sense into me.
I hope the above is clear to the casual and not so casual observers. Why are you here?
September 24th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
makingadifference #221,
DLSChicago makes sense to you? The only thing missing from TEAM is the “Heil Hitler” at the end of the meetings, perhaps you had to be at a higher level to get exposed to that.
DLSChicago #222,
I’ve seen enough of the “TEAM way” to make a judgment, I have seen several years of other groups as well.
I don’t care if you take me seriously or not, all that matters now is the judges, juries, and arbitration members. See you in court.
Why do I want to shut down the tool scam? Tool profit situation, nice try to tone it down. It’s a scam, not a “profit situation”. Haven’t you been reading my posts? Are you serious?
September 25th, 2007 at 12:48 am
Tex#223,
You ask if I think Q would lie in court. Of course I do. In fact I know that they are because they are lying about me.
You seem to keep forgetting that.
If they are stupid enough to lie to me about me, they certainly are stupid enough to lie in court.
September 25th, 2007 at 2:01 am
Tex #223:
I have told you why I am here. I have a vested interest in a future with the TEAM business. As far as Quixtar’s listing of several rules TEAM was breaking, TEAM tells it differently. Someone is lying, and I know from personal experience and several years of relationship that it isn’t TEAM. And what Quixtar is referring to, complaints by other organizations and disgruntled IBOs is common to all large Quixtar organizations and leaving this fact out leaves out proper perspective. That is lying, especially when TEAM has never been formally reprimanded by the corp. for these alledged violations. It’s a fact that within the past few years Qs representatives repeatedly told Orrin and the other plaintiffs THAT THEY WERE COMPLETELY SUPPORTIVE TO TEAMS APPROACH TO THE BUSINESS. IN EVERY AREA. I personally heard some of these conference calls. I stand where I stand because I have personally witnessed what the plaintiffs say in their affadavits to be true. If your true motivation is to put an end to the tool scam, then why do you verbally insult the leaders of the one organization who is doing it right? What do you even know about how tool profits are paid out by TEAM? And how can you think, even for a moment, that someone in Orrin’s position would take a question about tools seriously by someone like you? I don’t mean that offensively, but really, what have you accomplished as far as building large organizations? I have read numerous posts of people responding to you and telling you that the TEAM tools business is different, and fair, and that they support it. Yet you seem to have your mind made up before getting any of the facts. You seem to think that if there’s a tool profit being made in the Quixtar business there’s a scam in place. Not true here. You seem to think that all the business leaders are guilty of “the dirty little secret”, and that is true of many, but not true here. If you really want to understand TEAM, really get to know someone who is at least a triple 100. Without that relationship it’s impossible to understand what TEAM really is. There has never been an organization like it in the history of the business. Dexter’s business early on was close, but he didn’t have the system to safeguard against greed and egos. The integrity was there, but the system had within it the seeds of it’s own destruction.
Finally Jesus never taught, in any parable including the Golden Rule to slap someone upside the head and knock some sense into them. He certainly didn’t slander anyone. Saying someone is lying is one thing, calling them a cowardly kingpin is another. I’ve been a believer for 11 years and have read the bible 10 times. I read it everyday. I agree Jesus was more of a warrior than is popularly spoken of, and there was a time when I thought the Godly thing to do is put an end to Hillary Clinton and those like her, but I don’t think that way anymore. There’s a Holy Spirit at work, and if he’s truly at work in you, you will come to understand and support the great Godly men who have stood up for what is right.
September 25th, 2007 at 2:11 am
Tex #223:
Here’s an explanation of the TEAM tools system:
No matter how good the content of the system tools…No matter how necessary the system is to building your business…if the deal is not a win-win, it won’t last long. Here is an example of how most systems “share” tool profit. When you reach a certain level, you work out a deal with your upline Diamond and you start to reap the “negotiated” profit. As an example, if a CD costs $6, the Diamond would sell the CD to a Platinum for $5.50, a Sapphire for $4.75 and an Emerald for say, $4. Your profit would be the difference in your cost for the CD and the $6 price you charged your downline. Now, inherent problems exit here. First, what happens when a downline gets excited and goes Diamond? Here is what has happened in the past…they either strike an aggressive deal with their upline Diamond to share more of the profit, or they simply start their own system…starting all over with a $6 CD that they sell to their Platinums for $5.50 etc…you get the picture. Now, let’s ask the logical question. Can you (the new person getting started in business) ever…using this profit sharing method…make more than the Diamond? Nope. That, my friends, would be what you call a pyramid. It also makes for some ugly business dealingsBeyond an incredible leadership development system, Orrin and Chris have also created a FAIR profit sharing model. The profits go into profit sharing pools and are divided monthly based on the size of the business you have built. The entire model is based on a business strength formula which ensures that anyone can make as much or more than anyone else. On the TEAM, he who does the work gets paid…not necessarily he who develops the system. There are no “special deals” for anyone…including Orrin and Chris. In fact, they are constantly focused on making the opportunity better and better for the newest business owner. As the TEAM grows…the tool pricing drops based on volume. CD/Seminar costs have consistently been reduced over the years. In fact, Orrin has recently talked about(at a TEAM event) the day when CD’s could be reduced to $3 or even simply downloaded from the website!
September 25th, 2007 at 10:10 am
Tex #223
In response to your Jerad #219 I say “yes” to Quixtar lying in court. I have been in the courtroom, I have been subject to their intimidation, I have resigned because of their lack of character and moral judgement. In other words, they are no better than compainies like Enron. I know… you are thinking Quixscum did nothing to their people that Enron did, but to people of integrity there isn’t much difference between “levels of crime”, a crime is a crime.
Regarding this tool thing. A point you can’t seem to get thru your head is the tool part of the business is totally voluntary, AND you are allowed a six month money back guarantee. The profit sharing portion is a reward for understanding that this is the drive of the business, not products. Sure you need products like a car needs fuel, but it is the drive drain that makes the car go in our view.
Not only have the tools helped me tremendously in my TEAM business, but has also been a much needed source of knowledge for my other business (I won’t say what I do but I have been self employeed for 16 years).
In fact, even though the majority of my team has resigned like myself, my tool business has INCREASED. Why? For profit sharing? No. Because the tools provide a source of information that helps you move from a person of mediacrity to a person with the mindset of a winner. I couldn’t imagine my life right now without our tools. I know… you are thinking “You love the tools becasue of the profit sharing”, sure I like the profit sharing but I earned it. However, I actually GIVE away tools all the time, and most of it is to people NOT in the business. Boy, that sure does cut into my profits doesn’t it? The answer is yes it does!! But SO WHAT!! If I can give information out to someone so that it helps their life in anyway, that is the best reward!! I actually have a good friend that said listening to our tools helped him quit drinking. You need to understand that our tools aren’t to make money stictly by their sales, it is about helping people get the correct information to improv their lives. If this is a crime then take me to jail.
September 25th, 2007 at 11:20 am
Tex:
3 questions and an observation:
1. You said: “I’m not like Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward and Co., showing my hand while playing poker. I haven’t asked them the tool profit question, but have told them where I stand on this topic.”
Then you said (in the very next paragraph btw)
“I have asked Orrin, Chuck, Ron Simmons, and many others to tell how much tool profits they make, and have received silence in return.”
Which is it? Did you ask them or didn’t you?
2. You said: “Quixtar listed several rules they were breaking, and had been breaking, for YEARS. Do you think they would lie about something this important in court documents? Are you crazy?”
You’ve stated that Quixtar is hiding the truth on tool profits. If you believe this why wouldn’t you believe they are not telling the truth about TEAM?
Does Quixtar tell the truth or don’t they? Which is it Tex?
3. You said in post #168: “You don’t get to choose which rules to ignore when rule changes are made.”
So you believe IBOs shouldn’t get to choose which rules to ignore but you have been asking Diamonds for years to break the Quixtar rule to not disclose tools profits?
Which is it? Break no rules or break some rules?
Observation/Suggestion:
You said: “I know from personal experience the upline doesn’t care about retail nearly as much as they do about tool profits.”
While I admire you being an inactive Navy Officer, a Christian and the fact that you want to honor your parents, I don’t believe that is driving your passion here. Your reference to “personal experience” must have something to do with it.
If you are an IBO why don’t you ask your upline about the tools? My upline discussed it with me. I have no issue with it and neither does anyone on my TEAM. I appreciate you trying to stand up for all IBOs (you and Orrin have this in common ironically) but the TEAM IBOs are comfortable with the profit sharing structure.
If your upline doesn’t answer your questions then follow the rules and take Quixtar into arbitration. Have you tried this yet?
September 25th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Tex #224
Your first paragraph with the Hitler reference is both disgusting and shameful. You are nothing but a disgrace to your uniform and this country. You remind me of the scum liberals out there who play this same reference on President Bush. I will no longer respond to any of your comments because your thought process is about as intelligent as a Muskrat. No I apologize….to the Muskrat, people like you are what’s wrong with this country. I of course believe in free speech but to make a comment like that just shows what a piece of trash you are.I for one am ashamed you represented this great country of ours.
September 25th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
Tex #224:
You said: “I’ve seen enough of the “TEAM way” to make a judgment”
Anyone who uses 4 opens and one seminar as a basis for a significant judgement such as yours does not know how to do research and has a very flimsy foundation for an argument in my opinion. I’m sorry to be so harsh but you are all over these blogs acting like an expert on the “TEAM has broken the rules” subject. I have yet to find any valid support for any of your arguments about this.
Re: the tools subject- I’m sorry if your upline has not been frank with you about the tools. You should know that your anger about the tool profits is actually a form of support for TEAM! One (of many) of the TEAM’s strengths is the fairness of tool profit! (If you knew TEAM you’d know this.)
September 25th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
Jerad #225,
Where did Quixtar lie about you?
makingadifference #226,
If you are interested in TEAM, then drop the lawsuit and go away. Don’t start a competing business for 6 months and don’t try to entice known Quixtar IBO’s for 2 years. Just Go, TEAM. And follow the rules on your way out.
TEAM is led by lying cowardly “kingpins”. Why would you believe their garbage? Of course “TEAM tells it differently”. Don’t you think Quixtar is in the best position to determine the significance and frequency of IBO comments? How would you know whether TEAM was “formally reprimanded? If they weren’t “formally repremanded”, does this mean TEAM is in the clear? I don’t insult the so-called “leaders”, I state facts. Orrin doesn’t have to take me seriously, just answer the simple questions. Hitler built a large organization also. I tried getting the facts from the TEAM office and my upline, and was given the run-around. If there is hidden tool profit, there is a scam in place. Why does it take getting to know a triple 100 to learn the tool profit facts? TEAM is all about greed and egos.
Jesus also overturned the money changer tables. That’s all I’m doing, except I’m not divine and the tool scam is the money changers. He never slandered anyone, because he told the truth. He had harsh words for Jewish leadership, because they were saying one thing and doing another, just like Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward and Co. Knocking off Hillary is not being a warrior, it’s being a goofball.
September 25th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
makingadifference #227,
You describe the situation in the past, most tool systems stopped working that way a long time ago.
Thunderstruck #228,
Give me a break, the tool system isn’t optional. Have you never heard “the tools are optional, but so is success”? What a joke.
DLSChicago #229,
1. The first “they” refers to your question about the lawyer’s tool profit opinion. I have asked the listed individuals about tool profits, and they haven’t responded.
2. What do you mean by “You’ve stated that Quixtar is hiding the truth on tool profits”? Quixtar has understandedly declined to answer some questions because of pending lawsuits, but this is not the same as lying.
3. It not a rule that Quixtar does not allow tool profits to be discussed, and is not known whether they have asked IBO’s not to disclose tool profits. The jury is still out on this issue.
I gave the Quixtar lawyers a bunch of e-mails today where my upline and the TEAM office dodged and misdirected my requests for tool profit information. Ever seen a lawyer drool?
There’s no need for arbitration, TEAM is not really a part of Quixtar, because the TRO’s are being dismantled as we speak.
September 25th, 2007 at 11:39 pm
Thunderstruck #230,
Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward is both disgusting and shameful, not me. I post the truth, has Orrin posted the truth regarding TEAM tool profits? NO. Thanks for not responding, it shows you are also both disgusting and shameful. You and Orrin are two peas in the same pod.
DLSChicago #231,
If the Opens and Seminar information was nearly identical, from functions several hundred miles apart, and different speakers, I think the sample size is more than adequate.
How can TEAM be fair when NOBODY in my upline or in the TEAM office is willing to tell me what the deal is, or post it? Are you serious? It’s fair, just trust me. It’s fair, really, it is. No, really, it is fair, you can trust me….
September 26th, 2007 at 11:03 am
Tex,
RE: Your knowledge of TEAM:
You compromise your research by taking short cuts. A few opens and one seminar is an extremely small and inaccurate sample no matter how you try to justify it. I think you should stick to one mission so you can collect better quality research. Stay with the Quixtar Tools Situation.
RE: The Quixtar Tools Situation:
Your upline and Quixtar has an obligation to answer your questions. TEAM does not.
Summary:
Clean up your own backyard before you start cleaning up other’s.
Question for Bridgett:
Sorry to put you on the spot but do you support Tex’s mission to clean up your LOAs tool structure? Please share your views on this.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Tex#232,
Where did Q lie about me? Open your eyes Tex! Q lied about how I was taught to build the business. Q lied about how I position the company. Q lied about me switching people from LOS to LOS. Q lied by saying I signed people up to LOS’s that they didn’t know. Q lied by saying that I was taught these techniques.
Because Q was talking about me and how I was taught to build, I know that they are lying. Because Q lied to you about how I build the business, can you see why I don’t believe their version of what happened on Aug. 10th?
I know that they lied about me. So it isn’t a huge leap in logic to believe that they are also lying about Orrin’s actions and intent on Aug 10th. I certainly know from first hand knowledge that they are lying about how Orrin teaches business building.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
To answer Tex’s question (post #233)
I figured Tex thought Quixtar lied to him or her based on some previous statements.
Tex said: “Both Ron Simmons and Chuck Goetschel have stated Quixtar told them not to disclose tool proits, the IBOAI has denied this, and Quixtar won’t answer the question.”
Tex also said:
“My upline is responsible for lying to me about the level of tool profits (via silence)”
Sounds like Tex has a double standard here. Silence is lying for some but not for others?
Quixtar is just as guilty as Tex’s upline for not letting him or her in on tools numbers in his or her organization.
TEAM does not work that way, thank goodness. I thought that old tool model was gone by now. Another thing I learned on these blogs!
September 27th, 2007 at 3:43 am
Tex #232:
You said: Why does it take getting to know a triple 100 to learn the tool profit facts?.
Untill you understand the answer to that question you cannot understand this business. And to understand it, you must first have that relationship. TEAM isn’t the only organization out there with a fair and morally upright tools business. As to the other issues you’ve debated me on armed with “signed court documents”, for many of these I was personally present, you were not.
All of the terminated plaintiffs are acting in accordance with high moral standards, led by the answer to very sincere prayer, and will go down in history as very great men of influence who had a huge impact on the character of our nation.
Anyway TEAM is gone, so if you’re truly trying to make a difference through your tool scam crusade, why do you still blog on TEAM subjects.
A) All of your information is second hand even if they are “signed court documents”. You weren’t there.
B) TEAM is no longer a Quixtar organization, so it doesn’t apply to your mission.
C) Although for obvious legal reasons I can’t elaborate, I was there, you were not. Get over it.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:36 am
DLSChicago #235,
I am with the Quixtar tool situation. Where have you been? If I notice other rules being broken, I have also notified Quixtar of these issues. I don’t have to stick with one issue.
My upline and Quixtar has an obligation to answer your questions, TEAM does not? What if TEAM is my upline?
My backyard is clean, that’s why I’m cleaning up the TEAM and other tool scams.
Jerad #236,
Where did Quixtar say these things about you, as an individual? All I have seen is the letter to commit to do things right, regardless of whether you were doing them right or wrong previously.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:45 am
DLSChicago #237,
There is no double standard. I have complained about Quixtar not answering the question about whether they told the tool profiteers not to share the level of tool profits with the IBO’s. However, TEAM is profiting from the tools and claiming to be my “business partner” and “teammate”. If the profits were small, there would be no need to instruct the tool profiteers not to share this information, and no need for the tool profiteers themselves to hide this information. The whole thing stinks, bad.
TEAM and other tool profiteers have also not answered the question of even if Quixtar told them not to share the tool profits, why have the tool prices (and resulting profits) remained so high?
Plus, Quixtar has gone on record they don’t know the answer to the question how much is being made on tools, it varies by group, although I think it is a relatively narrow band of differences.
TEAM doesn’t work that way? You must not have read http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Quixtar_s_Opposition_to_Plaintiffs_Motion_for_Preliminary_Injunction.pdf, starting at page 47 of 56. There is a requirement not to share tool profits with other IBO’s. There is no indication this requirement came from Quixtar.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:57 am
makingadifference #238,
Your explanation about getting to know a triple 100 to learn the tool profit facts is nothing more than double-speak. You need to run for political office.
In other words, they have to be sure you are a liar and a coward prior to sharing this information with you? No thanks. If you can’t be honest with your self-proclaimed “business partners” and “teammates”, you’re neither of these terms to me.
You may have been personally present, but your lying and cowardly lens discolors the truth.
All of the terminated plaintiffs are acting in accordance with high moral standards, led by the answer to very sincere prayer? They should have prayed harder, because the lightning bolt would have come down with their name on it.
And will go down in history as very great men of influence who had a huge impact on the character of our nation? I agree, right along with the clowns from MCI, Enron, Adelphia, Tyco, etc. Very “great and having a huge impact on the character of our nation”, like Hitler was “great and having a huge impact on the character of his nation”.
Why do I still blog on TEAM subjects? Because they are a view into the tool scam. We already have documents showing the massive speaking fees, hopefully we will get even more information throughout the court case.
If you were there, why not identify yourself? What are you afraid of? I’ll “get over it” when the tool scam is shut down, as it has been in the UK.
If TEAM is no longer with Quixtar, why are YOU here? This is a Quixtar blog, not a TEAM blog.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
Jerad,
Ditto. My team did nothing wrong.
I am very disappointed in Quixtar for slandering me personally. They should have sent my team an apology. I taught my team properly and in accord to Qs rules.
It happened to me, I was there.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
Tex#239,
These claims are at the very center of Q’s fictional argument against TEAM. They claim that TEAM teaches a certain way and that, as a student of TEAM, I was taught that certain way. They claim that these methods include stacking and moving people around LOS’s. They claim that we misrepresent the business. None of this is true. They are, in actuality, lying about ME! This is how I know that they are less than honorable.
See, not only do I NOT build this way, but TEAM has never ever ever taught me to build this way. Q lies each and every time they insist that TEAM teaches these methods.
Am I to somehow believe that TEAM taught everyone else methods that violate rules but me? Or perhaps that TEAM has two systems and I’m on the legal one?
Also, there doesn’t seem to be a non-compete agreement in the doc you linked to.
Finally, why do you keep calling Orrin “Rosie”?
September 27th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Tex: in your yet-to-be-approved comment to makingadifference #238, mind if we not let you drop the H-bomb?
Yes, there’s plenty of comparison to historical figures throughout these posts, many of which have made us spit coffee through our noses.
Still, it’s probably not the classiest reference one can make.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
Looks like your making progress Tex.
TEAM isn’t part of Q so it can’t be your upline.
Good luck to you.
September 27th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
TEX, What will you do when this is all over? You have a hang up on “tools” and calling it all a scam. I get “tools” from Barnes and Noble, Borders and local book sellers, are you saying they are all SCAMS too. I get books and cd’s from them and many are “tools” that will teach me to be a better person. You need to find a new fight. Looking through the blogs most people are over your “tool scam” issues.
Team has left (as I have) or are in the process of leaving. So why are you STILL concerned with what TEAM is doing, I think your time should be spent worring about your Amway business and how you can be successful in it. I wish you the best of luck.
September 28th, 2007 at 11:28 am
DLSChicago #242,
Slander is verbal. Libel is written.
All Quixtar did was ask if YOU were going to follow the rules, regardless of whether you have been following them or not in the past. Are you so thin-skinned you get bent out of shape when Quixtar asks you to verify that YOU will follow the rules in the future, as YOUR leaders were NOT following the rules for YEARS? Grow up.
Jerad #243,
Just because TEAM didn’t openly teach the wrong way doesn’t mean they didn’t break the rules. Also, they didn’t have to break the rules across ALL organizations down to the newest IBO in depth to be doing things wrong. Many things on the Space Shuttle were done right a few years ago, but it still blew up. Get a grip.
Have you googled “Rosie Ruiz”? If you have and still have questions, ask them.
Administrator #244,
No problem on not using the “H-bomb” (as a historical aside, that was the primary reason we put so much effort in the A-bomb, we thought he was building one and we wanted to develop one first, then ended up using it against our other primary WWII enemy, Japan), there are plenty of other analogies I can use. I will use business related/financially “violent” examples instead of more physically violent ones.
That sounds painful…coffee through the nose! But I’m glad to be of entertainment value to you, and I am able to be serious and still have a sense of humorous about things. Just don’t let my “comic relief” moments lead you to think I am not serious about the tool profit issue, because I am serious about it.
It’s definitely NOT the classiest reference I could make, but that was intentional, as we are not discussing the classiest people to begin with. As they say, “If the shoe fits, wear it.”
September 28th, 2007 at 11:48 am
DLSChicago #245,
We definitely are making progress, but you should have used “you’re”, not “your”. Spelling progress is progress as well.
TEAM isn’t part of Q, but what happens to the IBO’s who are a part of TEAM and have no information to make a decision regarding how to support their business with BSM?
Good luck to you, too. I hope some day you wake up and smell the coffee, hopefully without “suffering” like the Administrator has done, by blowing it through your nose first. Ouch!
SAK #246,
After this (the overall tool scam, not the relatively tiny TEAM situation) is over, I will have more confidence this business has a long-term future and will build mine, without a tool scam.
I never said Barnes and Noble/Borders was a SCAM, too. But B&N/Borders doesn’t show up at major functions pretending to be making their profit from Q when they actually make most of their money from selling the tools. HUGE difference.
I’ll find a new fight after this one is won, thank you very much. I don’t think the UK DTI is “over” the tool scam, and I doubt Quixtar or the FTC is “over” it, either.
I’m not concerned with what TEAM is doing, except for the lawsuit they have used to try to blackmail Quixtar into submission, so they are far from “gone”. However, the statements and documents from the TEAM fiasco have been very beneficial to bolster the facts of the tool scam.
Shutting down the overall tool scam is the first step of “worrying” about my Amway business. TEAM has done their part to point out the tool scam is alive and well. They are now welcome to slink back into the gutter they crawled out of.
I wish you the best of luck as well, assuming you don’t go out and again try to scam others.
October 1st, 2007 at 11:09 pm
Tex#247,
Here’s the problem with your explanation: If what you claim is true, then TEAM leadership was terminated for something their downline did. There doesn’t seem to be anything suggesting that TEAM leadership taught ANYBODY any methods that are against The Rules.
October 2nd, 2007 at 8:37 am
Jerad #249,
Here’s the problem with your post: you haven’t read Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward’s termination letter, because it goes through a multi-year laundry list of problems. TEAM leadership was terminated for something their downline did, because they taught them things that broke the rules. You are truly lost.
October 2nd, 2007 at 12:45 pm
TEX — All this rhetoric you’re spewing and passing off as “Fact” doesn’t matter. TEAM people are exiting in droves. You can spend hour after hour here typing your useless rants, and in the end won’t make any difference whatsoever, except in your own mind, (which is where your legend exists). Someone is going to be right, and someone is going to be wrong. Only TIME will tell, regardless of how much time you spend here attempting to convince otherwise.
October 2nd, 2007 at 1:16 pm
FormerOhio IBO #251,
Where have I used rhetoric and not facts? TEAM people SHOULD leave in droves, we don’t want folks of their ilk. Good riddance, and don’t let the door hit you on the backside on your way out.
Sounds to me like the “Orrinites” are losing the debate, big time. I think they will lose in the courts as well.
You’re right, TIME will tell. As far as I’m concerned, the future is so bright, I gotta wear shades. Shades purchased via a Quixtar partner store, one of MANY stores that have to compete in the larger market, not just to IBO’s, of course. Oops, there goes another piece of your “high price” argument. Sorry, but not really.
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:35 pm
TEX said: “Where have I used rhetoric and not facts?”
You missed the point Tex (doesn’t surprise me) — it is ALL rhetoric, and ALL opinion. You have your opinion, and I have mine. NEITHER of us have what you call the “facts”. Maybe portions of facts, but no one outside the principal players have all the facts.
TEX said: “Sounds to me like the “Orrinites” are losing the debate, big time. I think they will lose in the courts as well.”
More of the same — you, or I for that matter, have no idea who is supposedly “winning” the so called “debate.” Surely you’re not judging from these forums? And the court case isn’t decided, so more of your drivel disguised as “fact.” Even when the court case is decided, it doesn’t really matter. As I said, only after a period of time has passed will we be able to assess the winners and losers. After that time has passed, the results will speak for themselves. Regardless of what you say, how often you say it, or how loud you say it, Results are what counts, and I’m sure TEAM would have no problem comparing results.
October 2nd, 2007 at 11:02 pm
Tex#250,
Is this one of those “facts” that you keep insisting that you are posting? ‘Cause if it is, then you are the one who is lost.
October 3rd, 2007 at 2:16 am
Former Ohio IBO #253,
Just because I don’t have every single detail of every single fact doesn’t mean I don’t have enough facts to make a judgment. But I understand your position, as you have no facts to support your position, so you have to insist on me having ALL the facts in order to have a slim to none chance of being right, at least in your mind.
Jerad #254,
You mean you think Quixtar made up all the stuff on Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward’s termination letter? Let’s assume they did make it all up, why hasn’t Orrin protested by now? See, you’re lost. 2+2=4.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Tex -
Other than what was outlined in the now famous “termination letter”, how much you bet there’s no written documentation to back up the pertinent issues they indicate prior to termination that were officially served to Mr. Woodward??
Carpe Diem TEAM!
(and as for you my Lone Star friend … hic vestri subcribo)
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Tex -
For the record. From freetheibo forum:
During my tenure as in-house attorney for Team, there has not been a single contract executed with a non-compete. Initially, the agreement contained a non-compete after a Quixtar appointed lawyer drafted the agreement.”
As indicated here - not only will you talk out of both sides of your mouth when it suits your pre-conceived notions, but you also will regurgitate only the facts convenient to said notions. Here we have an clear indication Quixtar lawyer drafted the initial agreement they submitted (conveniently leaving the non existant non-compete intact in the showing, of course).
This much is certain -
After all is said and done, if “your organization” grows to the size previously indicated you won’t be concerned about product or tools profit personally, will you?
Besides, from what I understand so far - while that may have been YOUR active downline in the past, it’s not going to be YOURS if you choose to re-build again, right?
I’ve heard it said that he who knows the least usually knows it the loudest … congrats on your “share of voice” being largest here on your forum.
October 4th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
G #256,
Do you think the Quixtar team sat down for a couple of hours and made all that stuff up, or recalled all of the issues and dates from their memories, without having other documentation to back it up?
I love it when you talk dirty to me, but I googled those words and came up empty.
G #257,
I already commented on TEAM not using the non-compete in their contracts, but nobody commented on whether the “keep secret” clause was included, which I consider a much bigger issue in the grand scheme of the tool scam.
Of course I’ll be concerned about tools profits, what gave you that idea?
I can start over, I would rather not have someone in my group who fails an open book test. But that’s just me.
Usually, but that leaves an opening for exceptions.
October 5th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
Ok I just have one question. Lets just say that the non compete that I didn’t sign, nor is legal unless my personal signature is on an actual piece of paper, is somehow enforceable.
What exactly are the consequenses of building a “competing enterprize” or contacting any of the people that i did the legwork to join “my independent business?”
October 5th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Oh yea, one more thing.
If Quixtar loses, they lose
If Quixtar wins, they still lose
If TEAM wins, they win
If TEAM loses, they just have to be patient.
Which side would you be on??????
October 7th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
Ben #259,
Ok I just have one answer. Let’s just say that the non-compete that you signed every year you continued your business, and is legal even without your personal signature being on an actual piece of paper, is definitely enforceable. Your original application, you know, the one that DOES have your personal signature, acknowledges the rules would be changed from time to time, and you should have read them when you renewed. Quixtar could have done a better job of educating you regarding the changes, so could have your upline, so could have the IBOAI Board. Each of the above dropped the ball, but mostly YOU.
What exactly are the consequenses of building a “competing enterprize” or contacting any of the people that you did the legwork to join “your independent business powered by Quixtar?” Try it and find out. Just make sure the women and children aren’t present when you come out of arbitration, it won’t be pretty.
October 7th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
ben #260,
Oh yea, one more thing? I thought you said you only had ONE question?
If Quixtar loses, they lose (except they already won)
If Quixtar wins, they still win
If TEAM wins, they win (except they already lost)
If TEAM loses, they just have to be patient, because arbitration will make getting kicked out of the CA court look like a cakewalk.
Which side would you be on?????? Q. How ’bout you?
October 8th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
tex #261
finnally somone decided to try to answer a question.
but once again I havn’t recieved a definate answer.
I’ll make it simple this time. What are the consequences of
of said actions?
All of my active downline has already quit quixtar so there are no ramifications for contacting them. If indeed i was to start or join a competing enterprize. So if i don’t wait 6 months, what exactly could happen? Arbitration is a very broad tearm. My father is one of the best corporate lawyers in this state, and he says Arbitration is not win or lose it is not an answer or an end only a deferal to a different kind of court hearing. Without a judge or jury only a non biased arbitrator. So can you tell me what has happened to other people who have done what I have thought about doing.
No ego, no emotion, just facts please. can you give me any examples?
October 9th, 2007 at 2:29 am
Tex #248 “I will have more confidence this business has a long-term future and will build mine, without a tool scam.” So who said you HAD to use any tools? Now what is your excuse?
And then there is that credibility thing again - PV talks and BS walks. Those Diamonds didn’t get those pins off of tool sales. They had Group PV down 6 or more legs for more than six months out of the year. Many as Founder’s Diamonds did it all 12 months out of the year. Not one single tool dollar got them to Diamond, but their PV sure did. Lots of it. Not one single tool dollar got them elected to the IBOIA Board either, but they were there.
Tex - Brother, I hate to bust your bubble, but right or wrong, those TEAM Diamonds are carrying a lot more credibility with me than you and the lawyers who have never had 1 PV in their life.
October 9th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
William 264
Excellent words, could not of said it better myself!
October 10th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
ben #263,
finnally somone decided to try to answer a question. —- Finally, someone should learn how to spell “finally”. This thread is on the back pages, I don’t check it as often.
but once again I havn’t recieved a definate answer. —- You should definitely learn how to spell “definite”, as well.
I’ll make it simple this time. What are the consequences of of said actions? —- Make it simple? How about using the word “of” once, instead of twice?
All of my active downline has already quit quixtar so there are no ramifications for contacting them. —- Not necessarily. None of you can get involved in a competing MLM type business for at least 6 months, perhaps longer, depending on the results of the arbitration. If the arbitrator decides the various Orrin sites caused these folks to quit, the 6 month/2 year normal wait period may be extended, especially if they are involving themselves with other former IBO’s.
If indeed i was to start or join a competing enterprize. So if i don’t wait 6 months, what exactly could happen? Arbitration is a very broad tearm. My father is one of the best corporate lawyers in this state, and he says Arbitration is not win or lose it is not an answer or an end only a deferal to a different kind of court hearing. —- Does Daddy know this is a binding arbitration ruling? Does he have the bucks to bail you out (assuming he works the case for free), in the event you lose in arbitration? Every hour he spends defending you is an hour he can’t make money. Do you realize it will be easy for Quixtar to enforce the arbitration in a court until the court case is heard, which could take years?
Without a judge or jury only a non biased arbitrator. So can you tell me what has happened to other people who have done what I have thought about doing. —- Just ask former Diamond Bruce Anderson. You may recognize some other names from his site, like Randy Haugen, his boyhood friend and personal sponsor. He has his e-mail listed on his site, www.baron55.com, it is baron55@comcast.net. Ask him for his phone number and talk with him.
In general, the arbitration proceedings require secrecy as to the outcome. Bruce is the only exception I know of who has thumbed his nose at this requirement. Most of the results are like a black hole. The issues and people go into arbitration, but you never hear what happened or was decided. That’s why I don’t like arbitration, and why I think Orrin should say it doesn’t apply to him, because it:
1. Has been ruled “unconscionable” and needs to be decided in a court whether the changes have made the process acceptable, and
2. He is no longer an IBO, so arbitration doesn’t technically apply to him.
But instead, his highly paid lawyers went down the “illegal pyramid” path. Which negatively relects on ME and MY business. That’s why you get the “ego” and “emotion” answers.
No ego, no emotion, just facts please. can you give me any examples? —- See above.
October 10th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
William #264,
So who said you HAD to use any tools? —- Nobody said that, but I choose to use tools. How would you rather build a house, with a hammer or a nail gun? What if it looks like the house is going to fall whether I use a hammer or a nail gun? Does it make sense to keep “building”?
Now what is your excuse? —- It’s not an excuse, it’s a reason. And it hasn’t changed.
First of all, I’ve had a lot more than 1 PV in my life. Secondly, you don’t seem to understand the real profit is from the tools, so if they have the Q volume to be a Diamond, all this means is they are scamming more people than if they were an Emerald. Most of their silvers and below are in a net loss position. This means probably well over 99% have a net loss. Is this how the business was shown to you?
How about you, Monette? You never responded to your “point #9″ post, either. You both need to get a clue.
October 10th, 2007 at 8:52 pm
tex 266
ok you got me, I should proof read before i send a comment, but maybe you should learn how to spell “reflects” Mr. stone thrower..
If you don’t know what any outcomes of arbitration have been and can’t give any examples, than what do you actually know, besides the fact that Quixtar obviously chooses arbitration to hide negative truths from the public.
maybe you should ask the QBQ.
October 11th, 2007 at 12:04 am
ben #268,
Your’re right, I missed the “f” key. However, there is a big difference between missing a key and misspelling a word. Not to mention the fact I nailed the answers, which you failed to address.
I gave an example, did you e-mail Bruce Anderson, Mr. Rock?
Also, it’s “…, THEN do you….” Take your own advice and start proof reading before you send a comment.
What’s a QBQ?
October 11th, 2007 at 9:50 am
tex
why must you constantly dodge the question and try to get me to talk to someone else?
QBQ is the Question Behind the Question
It is in a book named the same.
It is a very good book and recommended reading by most organizations in this industry.
there is always a question behind the question
meaning why would 15 peope spend the time and money to file a class action suit against quixtar when those people have already moved to the I side of the cashflow quardrant. Maybee you should read that one too.
May I also recomend the Emotional Intellegence Quickbook. All of these are definately must reads if you actually are a business builder.
October 11th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
ben #270,
You are the one who said you needed facts. Why not go to a source? Here’s what Bruce said, on his blog (which is no longer operating): 2/3 of his income came from tools. If you want a source for this statement, just ask. Otherwise, accept it as fact. But since you didn’t want to bother checking out my sources, it makes no sense to find this information for you.
I have the book, by John Miller.
Why would they? Probably because what happened in the UK is starting to be implemented over here, and they saw the end of the tool scam. Haven’t you noticed the big bonuses being paid out for Founders Emeralds and Diamonds? That is intended to at least partially replace tool scam profit.
I’ve read the cashflow book as well. In fact, if you apply his principles, the tool scam will show itself to you.
I’ll keep my eyes open for the EI book, I found it on amazon for about $6, it may be available in our library soon, for free.
I have literally hundreds of books covering a range of topics, some of which address EI, and have read many of them.
I suggest you invest in a dictionary, I found at least 4 words misspelled in your last short message. If you don’t think it is important to spell correctly and expect credibility, guess again.
October 11th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
very funny very funny
maybe I should just hire you to proof read everything I write.
you’ve said that you use tools.
what is the benefit of using tools, and if that benefit makes sense to you, why wouldn’t it make sense for everyone, and wouldn’t it make sense that a fair profit sharing plan on those tools be acceptable since the quixtar pay plan sucks so much?
October 12th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Hey everyone! This is the best one liner I’ve heard in a long time…..
Guy walks into a bar with an AMWAY T-shirt on.
I couldn’t stop laughing!!!!
October 13th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
ben #272,
Maybe I enjoy pointing out your obvious lack of skills in your primary language.
The tools are not shown as the major source of profit in the plan, Quixtar products are. It’s called lying. Why do you think the tools have to be priced to produce a MASSIVE profit?
ben #273,
I don’t get it. Is that all he’s wearing?
October 13th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
tex 274
who says English is my primary language?
I have to agree with you about the source of profit. The profit from the tool system is supposed to be supplemental. So QBQ in this case is, Why are the tools, which help my business out more than trying to get over priced retail volume more profitable than the Quixtar pay plan?
——–
the bartender says, nice novelty shirt, where did you get it?
October 15th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
ben #275,
Maybe you don’t have a primary language, unless grunting counts.
There is no need for QBQ, or some othe “fancy” thinking, it is a very straight forward issue.
The reason tool profit is higher is the pricing on the tools. Lower the price, lower the tool profits. What gave you the idea the price of the tools has to remain fixed?
October 15th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
tex 276
The price of the tools aren’t fixed. In fact they have gone down in the past and eventually they will probably be free as soon as there is an opportunity to make a decent living on just products alone…
grunt! grunt! unga! bunga!
October 16th, 2007 at 9:44 am
Oh yea, I almost forgot, the books will never be free due to copyright infringement laws. But they are and always have been the same price as at the bookstore.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:22 am
Question for you Tex,
Since TEAM was your upline, did you follow the rules when building your business or not?
October 16th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
ben #277/8,
The price of the tools aren’t fixed. In fact they have gone down in the past (very little) and eventually they will probably be free (only because Q mandates) as soon as there is an opportunity to make a decent living on just products alone… (don’t bet on it, there’s too much money in tools).
grunt! grunt! unga! bunga! —- Thanks, I’ll be sure to tell them that.
Who said anything about free? Did you know the “kingpins” buy them for half price or less and sell them for full retail price? You can get many of the books for free at the library, and many others for pennies on the dollar online.
Of course, the CD’s and books are drops in the tool profit bucket, the big bucks come from the various functions, opens, seminars, and major conferences.
DLSChicago #279,
Other than the retail rule, yes.
October 17th, 2007 at 12:43 am
tex 280
first of all, you obviously have no idea how to leverage tools, if you did you would know that checking a book out from the library for yourself doesn’t help any of your downline unless you have more hours in a day than the rest of us.
second, TEAM is a non profit organization and all profits are shared based on performance.
third, Q can’t mandate squat.
(unrelated)
I don’t know why anyone would pay you to speak your mind…..
October 17th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
ben #281,
First of all, it takes very little time to check out a book, you can even make some contacts if the opportunity presents itself. Downline can do the same thing. It’s called duplication, genius.
Second, TEAM is a scam, they hide their profits and pay those who are willing to scam others.
Third, Orrin is gone. How’s that for a mandate, loser?
(unrelated) That’s no surprise, you’ve been proven 3 times in one post to be wrong. Why not go for four? That’s what I call a grand SLAM.
October 18th, 2007 at 1:50 am
tex 282
Orrin is gone? are you sure about that?
Maybe he doesn’t need any profits from team anymore and has given up his place in the profit sharing plan to leave more on the table for the rest of us, but he will never be gone from the history books as one of the most selfless upstanding and ethical leaders this country has ever known.
So just tell every one of your downline to go to the library every time they want to review good business principals.
(unrelated) there is no way on gods green earth that I or you for that matter could prove anything to anyone on a stupid blog that only posts peoples opinions.
I have tired of this kind of he said she said b%^&$#@t!!!!
I will no longer participate in this idle chit chat. I’m going out to show the plan, because unlike you, nobody is paying me to post my opinion!
god bless
October 22nd, 2007 at 9:20 pm
ben #283,
Orrin is gone, until he rises up from the slime at a later date.
Maybe he doesn’t need profts from TEAM for a while, but he probably was also a highly paid “guest speaker” in KY last weekend. He won’t be more than a footnote in the history books, right next to Enron, MCI, Adelphia, and Tyco, as business disasters and scams. He’ll be even more of a footnote when the rest of the lying cowardly “kingpins” are put in their rightful place.
One of the most selfless upstanding and ethical leaders this country has ever known? He broke numerous rules over several years, wanted to break more on the way out, then filed an “illegal pyramid” lawsuit that was thrown out of court with a DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE disposition, and you can use those words with a straight face? I have always insisted the tool scam is not a cult, but in the case of the Orrinites, I’m having second thoughts. Un-freaking believable.
They can go to the library, but they won’t get any tips from Orrin. I suggest you check out a dictionary next time you go, and learn how to spell “principles”. Then go to the term “scammer”, and you’ll find Orrin’s goofy face grinning back at you.
I don’t have to prove anything, just lay down the facts. If you’re not a mesmerized Orrinite.
You’ve tired of not facing the facts. Goodbye, thanks for letting me have the last word. Hope you are having fun showing the plan your so-called leader says is an illegal pyramid. How do you explain that, anyway?
October 23rd, 2007 at 7:37 pm
tex 284
you just had to ask a question didn’t you?
I’m showing plans for the new business i just joined. They can try to sue me if they want. But by the time they find me they’ll be all done anyway. Now have the last word, just stop asking me all these stupid questions, you blind fool.
October 23rd, 2007 at 7:43 pm
Suing anonymous bloggers.
give me a break.
why don’t they just trample the whole constitution
October 23rd, 2007 at 8:15 pm
oh wait that was a stupid question.
they don’t care cause they got the Chinese to buy their stuff retail at the low low price of competitive.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Ben,
I think Orrin resigned from his official position in TEAM which Bob Dickie III took over. I think he continues to recieve profits because he testified in court that he was paid by TEAM to speak at a recent seminar and would be paid for speaking in Louisville as well. He is not gone from TEAM, TEAM is definitely not gone and ironically TEAM is not completely gone from Quixtar either.
Quixtar lost the last round in Grand Rapids and any Quixtar IBO was freely allowed to attend the Louisville major and many did. They are free to attend seminars as well at least so far.