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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
August 31st, 2007 @ 4:41 pm ET…
Texas
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
The three plaintiffs in Texas were ordered into arbitration with the company as part of a preliminary injunction issued by a court today outside Dallas.
Arbitration was fine with us. The facts remain on our side.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
August 31st, 2007 at 5:01 pm
Who got the preliminary injunction? That’s a pretty important fact that you left out. What are the details of the preliminary injunction?
August 31st, 2007 at 5:04 pm
As expected, our Justice system works.
I agree arbitration is the correct course of action.
Each side will present their case and the arbitrator will decide.
Due process of law.
Ros
August 31st, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Good catch Steve. My guess is the injunction was upheld against Quixtar, which could be considered a win for TEAM, but only because it was referred to arbitration, which is likely a much bigger win for Quixtar.
Correct, CorpComms?
August 31st, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Alright, I have been following this process pretty closely, I’m actually in the WWDB system so am not part of team…however. QUIXTAR/ALTICOR/AMWAY seriously you need to reconsider your tone and approach I am seriously fedup with the rude and inconsiderate way that you have been posting and responding to this situation.
This is a SAD deal, it isn’t good for anyone, mistakes were made on both sides, why do you have to act like jerks?
That doesn’t help your image, your rep, or anything else. To be honest, because of the way that you have responded to this situation (compared to the way that Team has responded) it really doesn’t matter to me who is right or wrong, your actions and tone of response are pathetic, and I refuse to connect my family’s future, fortune, and life to a company who responds like this.
Get it straight, wrong or right, TEAM is human beings, they have done good things, and I am sure they have done things wrong as well. PLEASE can you at least handle the situation with respect that would be expected from a corporate communications department??
August 31st, 2007 at 7:42 pm
Injunction was granted against Quixtar.
I am happy to go into arbitration if I break a rule but the court prohibited Quixtar from taking actions against me and the other plaintiffs such as suspension, threat of suspension or termination. The also prohibited Quixtar from interferring with my participation (and my downline) in the Team training system.
If there is an alleged rule violation in the future with me or the other plaintiffs it will not be required to go through the IBOAI dispute resolution process but will go straight to an arbitrator here in the Dallas area who I think is a retired federal judge.
Quixtar is right - the judge did decide in a preliminary injunction against Quixtar that if there is an alleged rules violation in the future by me or the other plaintiffs (there are none)it will be heard by an arbitrator.
This is great news!
August 31st, 2007 at 8:08 pm
Is this Quixtar arbitration, or another “brand” of arbitration? Do you have a copy of the preliminary injunction? I would rather it go to court, which is a much more open proceeding.
Steve #1,
Does anyone “get” a preliminary injunction?
Ros #2,
It’s a judicial system, not a justice system. Big difference. Just ask O.J.
August 31st, 2007 at 10:28 pm
James #4,
How much tool money does the typical WWDB Platinum and above make?
Ron #5,
Is it true Orrin and Chris quit the TEAM tool system? If so, why?
I’m glad you kept any rule violation outside the Quixtar arbitration system (although I still would have preferred a more open court proceeding). What was the basis for that, as you are still an IBO?
September 1st, 2007 at 12:03 am
Saw this on http://www.mlmleads.eu/page.cfm/id/9255
They talk a lot about stacking, and even mention “team” a few times, although apparently not in reference to Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward. He just happened to pick this convenient term for his group. I would expect similar measures in the U.S., and looking at these issues, TEAM will have a lot of remedial
training to do.
September 1st, 2007 at 12:21 am
Gentlemen -
Due to “fact” that the Texas judge has indicated arbitration (if warranted) will occur in Texas with arbitor of their selection (not a part of loaded Q* “Kangaroo Kourt”) - I would not be quite so smug … bit is becoming increasingly clearer that versions of “facts” espoused here leave reality frequently wanting.
September 1st, 2007 at 12:29 am
This message is for all my mighty pals out there who are serious about building a successful business powered by Quixtar/Amway. I have especially enjoyed many of the comments from “ibofightback” and “jthompson”. At the same time I was glad to here from “jthompson” on another blog that he is retiring from blogging soon. I need to do the same and get out into the marketplace. It’s been so exciting to follow the Team/Woodward vs. Quixtar battle that I’ve become like a couch potato TV watcher in front of my computer for the past few weeks. I’ve never visited a blog before Aug. 10th and now it’s almost an addiction to read this stuff. That’s not going to help position me to take advantage of the new money in the QBI and the massive explosion in on-line shopping. Thank you mates! I hope that you go out and register lots of new IBOs and sell lots of products. I believe the best way we can prove who is right is to go out really kick butt and create a bunch of success. Also, get plugged in tight with your up-line. They may be able to handle questions and concerns more effectively than blog administrators and fellow bloggers. For now on if I have the blog itch, I’ll check out some of the other non-TEAM-related material on Opportunity Zone.
God bless.
Aron
September 1st, 2007 at 3:42 am
I think the court that will decide both Quixtar and TEAM’s fate, will be the court of public opinion. For once, I agree with Tex. It’s a judicial syatem - not a justice system. But it’s the only system we’ve got. In a lot of other countries, there is no system.
Btw, check out the saveusdickdevos blog on blogspot. Now there’s a DeVos loyalist if I ever heard one!
September 1st, 2007 at 8:40 am
If I was TEAM, I would fight arbitration.
Here is what Federal Judge Richard E. Dorr had to say two years ago about Amway’s arbitration process:
“It is this Court’s opinion that the procedure utilized by Defendants to screen, train and ultimately hand-pick their panel of arbitrators does not come close to passing any reasonable test of fairness and neutrality required for a legitimate arbitration proceeding.”
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2005/09/judge_halts_quixtar_arbitration.php
September 1st, 2007 at 9:11 am
This is not exactly on topic, but it is BIG NEWS!!
“EX-AMWAY DISTRIBUTOR ADMITS LYING
Saturday, September 01, 2007BY JOHN BEAUGEFor The Patriot-News
WILLIAMSPORT - A former Amway Corp. distributor in Lycoming County admitted that he lied when he said he’d uncovered billions of dollars in consumer fraud with the company.
Eric N. Scheibeler made the acknowledgment Friday in a federal court filing to settle a defamation suit bought by Amway, now known in the U.S. as Quixtar.
Scheibeler states in a letter to an attorney for Amway and Quixtar that he falsely said he and his family were threatened, that he had been offered money in exchange for his silence and that Quixtar did something to his Web site.”
We always knew he was lying, but had to live under the cloud, anyway. Now we can BUST that MYTH!!
September 1st, 2007 at 11:01 am
Hopefully you all caught that the Federal Judge actually ordered a Federal Arbitrator (NOT THE AMWAY ARBITRATOR) to mediate any future rules violations. Sounds to me like the Judge has no confidence or trust in the Q/A arbitration system. Leave it to a Judge in the most INDEPENDENT state in the Union to bring some fairness and common sense to the process.
September 1st, 2007 at 11:07 am
Tex #6,
If you read the “T-R-O, nice T-R-Y” post and the “Clarification” post, you’ll see Alticor believes they “got” the preliminary injunction against TEAM. Therefore someone does have a more positive stance after the proceedng.
Also, since the arbitrator will not be a Quixtar/IBOAI arbitrator, they’re more likely to be objective than the “company-trained” arbitators we’ve heard about.
I believe its about time another party besides the courts was involved in weighing the merits of both sides of the argument.
September 1st, 2007 at 11:54 am
Hey Tex,
Finally you and I agree. The answers to your questions are:
1. No, it is not Quixtar arbitration.
2. Yes, it is a court ordered arbitration with a bona fide arbitrator who is not connected to either side.
That’s a good thing.
September 1st, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Tex:
Please see my response under TRO Nice TRY.
September 1st, 2007 at 8:54 pm
i’ve never heard of eric sheibeler… ?
September 2nd, 2007 at 12:27 am
I am very disappointed by the Quixtar, Alticor and now the IBOAI public relations stuff they’ve been sending.
Having been an amway distributor and now an IBO with Quixtar for ten years, it dismays me to see all this childish posting by the people who have the opportunity.
It is hard enough to overcome the survey question but now with all this tripe that has been served up, the googling, does not get any better.
Lots of doubt has been placed in my head, my upline and my team over the past weeks from all the negative stuff on official sites. Even if Downeast is not with TEAM, we all suffer from your bad manners.
Please clean up your act and behave responsibly.
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:01 am
DanO322 #16,
When have we ever disagreed?
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:09 am
YankeeIBO #13,
I have suspected this guy was a liar for some time. He traded e-mails with me up until the point I asked him how much money he made on tools. Then, the communication between us went silent.
Keep in mind that although he lied, and big time, it doesn’t mean everything he wrote was the opposite of the truth.
Also keep in mind he wasn’t sued by any IBO’s that he accused of making HUGE tool profits, only by the corporation, for issues completely unrelated to tool income.
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:26 am
I can’t tell you how sad I am to be involved in such a situation as we all find ourselves. We started our Amway business in 1994. While we were doing very well financially by anyone’s standards, we saw this business as a way to possibly help other family members and/or friends who were not doing so well. Also, since Ron traveled 70% of the time, we thought that perhaps he could slow down some. We also had in mind the future of our children who at the time of our registration were 12, 9, 2.
We didn’t know much about Amway. We joined because we trusted our friend who showed us the plan. Even then, he had to show it without saying the name Amway until it was time for us to sign on the dotted line because of the fear that we would be scared away. But by the time we signed we had already listened to enough tapes and believed what the people on there were saying that we wanted whatever they had.
So you see, our decision to join this business had nothing, I repeat nothing, to do with SA8 or Artistry or Double X. While we think those products are quality products and we were willing to pay the prices in order to build our business, they were not the reason we built it. Our decision to stay with Quixtar had nothing to do with the cool partner stores either. Although it helped that those stores took some attention away from it being “amway online”. Building our business was solely because of the way we saw the system building people. It was the way we felt when someone said, this business has changed my relationship with my husband/wife/kids. Believe me, it wasn’t the SA8 that did that. It was the system.
Finally, the reason we stayed with the business even though the money has never been enough to make us go out night after night, was for our son Daniel. Daniel is mildly autistic. This business (the people/system) gave him the only positive input and encouragement during his crucial teen and young adult years. He is now 22 years old and even with his severe learning differences and never having gone to college is able to understand more about people and business than most 22 year olds with a college degree.
It was not because I washed his clothes with SA8 or because he took Double X that made him know that delayed gratification is a good thing. Nor was it the fact that we only used Satinique or Body Series that gave him the confidence to write our state senator about his views on immigration. It was listening to his dad and mom and watching and hearing other people’s comments on CD’s. It was listening to Randy, Don, Orrin and Chris and so many others tell their funny stories about building the business, having fun, making money and making a difference. It was watching us help young couples with their money problems or marriage issues. It was meeting people from different walks of life that he never would have met without the system teaching him how to relate to others. It was having the confidence to walk across his high school graduation stage saying that he was going to the “University of Success” which meant our system.
I know you’ll never understand all of this if you’ve never built the business and had to beat down the “Amway” comments. It didn’t take us long to figure out that if we could just get that new couple plugged into the system, we had a greater chance of creating a loyal IBO; loyal to the products,yes but more than that loyal to themselves. We had the chance to help change people from the inside out. With our Sunday services at every Major Function, we’ve seen more people come to know the Lord (relatively speaking) than we have in our 40 + years of being involved in evangelical Christian Churches (nothing against churches).
You can take away our IBO number, but you will never take away the eternal changes that have happened in our lives because of the system. I will be forever grateful for our decision to build the business for that reason alone. I’m sorry you can’t understand that.
Still Going to a million people!
Lisa
September 2nd, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Suggested reading:
http://media.alticorblogs.com/2007/08/10/just-go-team/comment-page-11/#comments
Big Apple’s comments #1015, #1016, #1017
September 2nd, 2007 at 2:03 pm
just who is running quixtar/ AMWAY. I did not sign up for Amway. I believe there are a bunch of idiots running it and they have ruined my business. I started in 1999.
September 2nd, 2007 at 3:10 pm
Prices are still to high no matter what any fancy lawyers say…and the fact remains that Quixtar/Amway has claimed away my independence in being and IBO and instead make comments like “people are their property.” They dissolved the IBOA board which means no more representation for us. Dick Devos if you are listening…i am not sure if you know what is going on with your beloved company but you can really step up and be a hero here. You can help Quixtar/Amway represent what it used to be…FREE ENTERPRISE.
September 2nd, 2007 at 6:31 pm
1. Hey Tex and Jthompson,
I see all your posts against Orrin and Chris as well as your responses to absolutely everybody elses posts that are slanted toward the TEAM point of view and I cant help but ask myself why?
You said your not part of TEAM and your not paid by Quixtar/Amway/Alticor. So then, if your not part of Team and not paid by Quixtar, then how in the world does this situation even affect you? Furthermore, why does it bring out such vitriol? It makes no sense.
I have tried hard to figure it out. I thought maybe y’all were just defenders of corporate giants as a matter of principle, sorta like a concerned conservatives. But that makes no sense either, because you can’t be a concerned conservative and fighting against free enterprise unless of course you’re bi-polar… (intended as a joke not a personal attack)
Then I thought maybe its just a hobby? But certainly you possess far to much intelect to waste your time at a computer attacking so many other people your don’t even know. There has to be a reason.
Then it dawned on me… maybe your not being paid by Q/A/A but have been hired by some third party. Then you could legitimately say that your not paid by Q/A.
Well if thats it, then enjoy your work, but at least let people know the truth behind your situation. Bill Clinton was one of the best politicians ever, but will go down as one of the worst presidents because of his lack of character and the fact that he tried to spin his way out of everything. Y’all are obviously no dummies, (maybe misinformed) so why not learn from his mistake.
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:40 pm
Lisa / Liberty Rose #22
Thank you for your insight and comments.
I have know you since you were platinum ( over 10 years now ) . Both you and Ron have run your business with integrity and class.
My wife and I really enjoyed spending some time with Daniel in St George. He is truly as much of a blessing to us as the system is to him.
All of us with Legacy ( Now Team ) appreciate you letting us “borrow” Ron the last few years.
He is a man of character and I have enjoyed his wisdom as well as his friendship.
Everything rises and falls with leadership and it is becoming crystal clear to me where the true leadership is!
God Bless you both,
Jefe
September 2nd, 2007 at 9:16 pm
What is great about Amway Business.
22, Liberty Rose Says:
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:26 am
Lisa, agreed 100%. For many ibos like you and me, sunday morning, the friends and mentorship, and the “system/team” is what makes this business great. Its the PEOPLE, not the PRODUCTS that moves us emotionally.
Now understand - you can’t completely separate Amway Corp from the ibo teams/systems b/c RICH and JAY were/are IBOs/distributors.
The evolution/influence of ibo teams/culture started with Rich and Jay and filter down to Dexter and your LOS… until it reached people like Orrin.
It appears, Orrin may have build a system and network of people that are cool and have positively impacted lives… and he also has misrepresented the business to his new people… about who Quixtar is and what is the relationship.
But the big thing is that Orrin appears to have called Amway an illegal pyramid and has tried to bring massive negative attention to AMway Corp b/c of his own selfish agenda of wanting to get away and do his own thing.
“You can take away our IBO number”
According to Orrin and freethibo… all the “mighty 8″ RESIGNED.
Amway should have terminated Orrin a long time ago but Orrin say he resigned.
Fear of Amway is created by spending too much time at freetheibo forum and ASHTON partners who has been hired to POSITION information to make TEAM look good and Amway look bad.
Btw, the reason you have witnessed more people be saved in a “business” than at church is… b/c American Christians (most, not all) have become lazy and selfish…. going to church to hear the latest doctrine and get the latest revelation when millions are starving w/o a first revelation.
Finally i became fed up… found some resources by renowned soulwinners like Billy Graham, Bill Bright & CCCI, D.L. Moody, T.L. Osborn (”Soulwinning” book) and many others… and decided I can win more people than most churches also by myself
September 2nd, 2007 at 11:49 pm
Liberty Rose #22,
You’ve been misled. This is a business. The other things you mentioned are the tail, not the dog. The tail is wagging your dog.
September 3rd, 2007 at 8:34 am
Liberty Rose:
You are absolutely right on. What you described is exactly what I joined. How many people see the plan and are on the fence untill they experience some part of the system that touches them personally. So many critics out there just don’t understand there would have never been an Amway, Quixtar, or Alticor, without the system, which has always been the real business. I would guess that more than 90% of what’s left of this business could be traced back to DY 60. How tragic when people don’t get this.
Tex:
Haven’t seen any info on Orrin’s resignation from TEAM anywhere other than Ron’s post. If true, it’s just some kind of legal thing but I wouldn’t be surprised to see that it was a typo that should have said from Q. PDF was supposed to be posted two days ago which makes me suspicious since leaving it as is raises questions unanswered which of course always leads to doubt and confusion. There seems to be so much non disclosure going on on both sides. I just know the moderator is going to answer either you or I on the tool profits question any second…
September 3rd, 2007 at 10:24 am
For those that don’t quit know what it takes to get a preliminary injunction, here here it is. I welcome comments…
1. That there is a substantial likelihood of success on the merits of the case,
2. That they face a substantial threat of irreparable damage or injury if the injunction is not granted,
3. That the balance of harms weighs in favor of the party seeking the preliminary injunction
4. That the grant of an injunction would not disserve the public interest.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preliminary_injunction
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:32 am
So, Tex, you sound like a broken record…so I am not going to get stuck in this…however; This one time: I’m not sure how much WWDB Platinums make with tool money/our Premier Membership Program, I know that they make some. It makes sense to me to believe what has been told that the corporation has banned talking about tool profits, so I don’t know. However, I have no problem with making money from tools as well.
I have purchased books, cds, etc. from people like John Maxwell, Zig Ziglar, and other success teachers. I have attended their meetings and seminars. Most teachers like that have monthly CD series that they send out monthly. I would normally pay as much or more for their material then WWDB SOT or functions…making money from training is fine by me.
I mentioned WWDB solely for the purpose of letting the blog authors know where I was coming from. I’m not currently getting SOT, etc. but that is because I view it currently as another training source, and if I am not going to build this business currently (as I stated in my previous post) then I will invest my money in more general training instead.
September 3rd, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Aron #10
Hooyah! that means sweeeeet!!! for all of you in Rio Linda.
Liberty Rose #22
The “System” that you are so proud to be apart of wouldn’t exist without Amway or its products amway purchased the nutrilite distribution network (system) 50 years ago. Amway is not in business to make people happy they are in business to make money, happiness is a by-product of making money because it gives us options.
September 3rd, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Here’s a note from my daughter in response to #22 Liberty Rose under Texas, she can totally relate to Daniel and being raised in a system that focuses on building people up.
I am fourteen years old and have been raised in the Amway/Quixtar business. My parents have been building their own business for over twenty years and were able to walk away from their jobs before my sister and I were even born. Over the past few years, I have really been able to understand the business and its purpose. I finally understood that my parents aren’t only in a business for themselves but more importantly for helping others.
I am very outgoing and I have never been excited about explaining to my friends about the products (since they had never seen them before) but I love telling them about the ways my parents are helping other people. I love being around the people in the TEAM business and love telling my friends about them. I know that the books, tapes, CD’s, and the all the functions I go to, have put me way ahead of people my own age. Just being around the people and hearing all the stories has changed my life. The people in my parents business have always encouraged me in school and sports. Our family has always been a positive and uplifting environment, because of the books my parents read, CDs they listen to, and the people they hang out with in the business. Leaders like the Wilson’s, Haugen’s, Sims, Brady’s, and Woodward’s have a very positive influence on all of us. When the TEAM DVD’s come in the mail I sit on the couch and watch them with my dad. I know that our family has a chance of a lifetime.
When I found out about the problems between TEAM and Quixtar/Amway, I was very upset. I know that the business wasn’t labeled great because of the wonderful products that we all use, but the whole reason behind the business: HELPING PEOPLE! I know that when I leave my footprint in this world, I want people to remember me: I was involved with a great group of people in a business like TEAM that wasn’t self-centered but was totally focused on helping people achieve their dreams while achieving yours. If my family is building the business just for ourselves, it is so totally not worth it, but I truly know we are not.
We need to hang on and help each other over come this “bump” in the road and help achieve our business goals. We are going to a million people and in the process; we are going to leave our footprint in this world!
God bless,
Cowgirl
September 3rd, 2007 at 10:17 pm
makingadifference: PDF is coming as soon as we get one ourselves. The weekend, Labor Day here in the States…we’ll try for Tuesday.
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:43 pm
James #32,
The broken record will continue to repeat itself until answers are forthcoming. The tool profit issue has been THE major problem facing this business, and we must get transparency regarding this issue, or the business reputation will continue to worsen.
This is much like not being aware of gravity, never hearing of gravity, not believing in gravity, etc. None of those matter, because if you jump off a building you will go splat, regardless of your opinion on gravity.
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:46 pm
Administrator #35,
Any estimate on when the tool disclosure issue will be answered?
September 4th, 2007 at 5:16 am
Tex #29:
Liberty Rose has it exactly right. Not only is she not misled, but she has described who Orrin, Chris, Don, Randy, Chuck, and the others are, and always have been to a Tee. Not telling someone what you are being gagged from telling them is not misleading them. I’ve never heard one person say any of these men lied to them, ever. If you know of someone who claims this, they are lying I can assure you. Everything Chuck stated in his post is true, some of it I heard for myself. Also, none of the men who resigned on the 9th of August have said one single defamatory or negative thing about anyone that I know of, including the coropoartion or it’s upper management or legal team. There has been no “Just Go Quixtar” from these fine Godly men. And the question begs itself, why has Q responded like they have (thank God predictably, you’ll be seeing the meaning of that within a few weeks or months), if the allegations in the lawsuit are untrue? Does this seem like a very smart strategy for the remaining IBOs? Oh yes, there is much more going on behind the scenes than any of us can see on a blog, and I hear that so far none of it is a surprise, except on Qs part where they have been unsuccessful in trying to pull Orrin and the rest into a nasty PR war, and unsuccessful in finding any evidence of intent to start a competing mlm. Let’s just say that all the nastiness among those actually involved in the litigation has been pretty one sided so far, and that will be undeniable on the 12th, and will be a huge factor.
In a couple weeks we will have proper perspective on what happened. Those led to believe that Orrin and the rest stormed into their meeting on the 9th with a lawsuit in one hand and a clenched fist in the other, making unreasonable demands, will be shocked to find out that Orrin and the rest simply were there to discuss allowing IBOs the choice about whether they wanted to continue with the new changes, and that Q terminated them without discussion, certainly without proper arbitration according to their own rules and were soon sending threatening emails to IBOs who were not part of the suit. Orrin hasn’t done a single thing to coerce anyone to leave Q, join him or anything else, but Q has made it very clear that we are all their property. For those who enjoy the spin there’s still plenty to time for that. There’s still a gag order, it will take more than one day in court to have all the official press releases that reveal what the court has discovered. But the truth is going to come out, and sooner than those of you who misguidedly think Qs legal team will be successful in dragging this out for very long (oh, how I wish I could elaborate on that one!) Shughart, Thomson, and Kilroy have played this game many times before, with successes and losses on both sides, but, man is this ever a unique case, and Q knows it.
The bottom line is, when the smoke clears, the publicity is not going to be good for Q. The worst that can happen to TEAM is a six month wait on our way to a million. And can you imagine someday someone learning from all this and starting a business where there’s absolute transparency from day one for prospects, the press, or whoever? And what if the people who build the bus. also own it, and control the direction it takes based on actual field knowledge and experince? And hey, once I resign, I’m going to be willing to confer with you through phone or face to face because there is much I cannot tell you now but will be able to then. Will you be willing to do that? I notice you are all over every blog that has anything to do with this bus. so you won’t be hard to find. I’ve read a lot of your stuff, and man, are some of your premises misguided. I can understand why, and I’d probably feel the same way looking through your eyes. When I still felt good about talking to prospects about Q, and they would tell me a story about “they was in that thing, and…”, or” my dad did that and…” I would look them in the eye and say “who was your upline diamond, what side of the refridgerator does he keep the milk on, and what are the birthdays of all of his kids?, because if you can’t answer that question you don’t know a thing about this bus.” That’s what’s missing in your perspective Tex, and I have had that perspective for some time. Administrator #35 says the PDF from Ron Simmons is coming by Tuesday. Strange thing though, not a word about that tool question or 3.4% of sales question.
September 4th, 2007 at 5:43 am
#34 Cowgirl’s Mom said: “We need to hang on and help each other over come this “bump” in the road and help achieve our business goals.”
Business goals. That’s the key. Business goals implies making money. The problem is that if people aren’t making money, if they don’t see results, they will never see the “bigger picture” that this business has to offer.
Oh, they may see glimpses of it, but they will fade away because they won’t believe it for themselves because their Upline spends too much time selling the BIG dream, rather than teaching them how to make a few bucks retailing at first.
And so if they don’t believe in the Comp Plan (since they aren’t making any money), how likely are they to go and show the Plan?
Nothing to duplicate and fear to duplicate.
This business is the products AND the Plan. The Plan, the ability to duplicate, THAT is what is so amazing.
The business has a reputation of “no one makes any money.” This is not a good reputation for a business to have. Wouldn’t you agree?
The ability to sell a product and to duplicate yourself is what makes the money. And the money is what buys you options. Whether you want “stuff” or want to buy your time back–or both.
But if you have nothing worth duplicating, then you won’t make any money. And if you are not making any money then most people will not stick around long enough to see that this IS more than just a product business. Much more.
So TEAM’s solution is to stack people for them? How does THAT empower people? That’s cutting the cocoon open and the caterpillar’s undeveloped wings will drag on the ground behind him and he will never be the butterfly he was intended to be…
September 4th, 2007 at 11:57 am
Bridget #39,
You are right in one area, people need to make money even a little at the beginning to get to a point to see the big picture. THAT is what Team is fighting for…lower prices! If prices were lower, retailing would be easier and people would make money quicker. Please read the lawsuit and think before you post.
You are wrong in the thought that Team Depth building (its NOT stacking) is similar to cutting a cocoon open. Since you obviously have never built the business let me explain some things. First if you are building 6-4-2 or 9-6-3 the goal is to get 6 or 9 wide as quickly as possible. When you are 9 wide you are trying to get those 9 people to sponsor their front line of 6 to 9 as well. Of the 9 people in your front line, 1-3 will start building the business (contacting, stp, etc.). What ends up happening is that you spend your time with the ones doing something and the rest fade away because they see no results. Statistically 3 out of 15 will do something with the business when building in a 9-6-3 or 6-4-2 style. NOT good to have 12 people now negative about the business. The 12 people may have gotten a 3% check but that is the extent.
Now with Team Depth Building, you are able to put those 9 people all in a leg and you still work with the 3 that want to build it right then BUT ALL 9 benefit and get some form of a check, 3% to start but grows thanks to help from others in the leg. As you help the 3 build their businesses the others not currently building (contacting, stp, etc.) see their “rebate” check increase (up to 25%) as they purchase for their own consumption or minor retailing…if they can retail.
These people are in an apprentice line where they can take the time to learn and understand the business BUT not be penalized by having zero results after a year and quitting. Retention rates are much higher with Team Depth than 9-6-3 and so fewer people are leaving with negative views. For these reasons more organizations (not just TEAM) are building in Team Depth fashion…it works.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Mr Moderator,
I appreciate your censorship on post number 26. OK not really… but in all fairness when you are going to censor, at least be fair minded enough to let people know that you censored the post and your reasoning behind it.
It’s called freedom of speech!
September 4th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Bridget, funny you’d criticize one of the fastest growing groups in Quixtar. We had a unique opportunity building without and with TEAM. I’d pick the TEAM way hands down! We tried building the business 9,4,2 with a 300 PV circle for each IBO. All we did was replace people because they got discouraged and quit year in and year out. When only 3 out of 12 sponsored IBOs stick around, the other 9 will just spread the “that doesn’t work” attitude stealing others dreams. Then, we were introduced to TEAM. How exciting for us to work together to build strong teams. To have your support team working in your business so you could work on becoming profitable. Everyone succeeded! But, then again, I guess you’d complain if your support team worked in your business, and sponsored people for you? I’d like to tell you, that the TEAM way is not something for nothing. It’s just something instead of promises and getting nothing. You wouldn’t know unless you had the privilege to experiencing the magic of the TEAM culture.
September 4th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Please explain to me how a corporation (Amway/Quixtar) finds a new IBO? The only way a new ibo is sponsored is by an ibo. that ibo is not trained by sa8 detergent, loc, xs, or any other product. that ibo is trained by the system of education and that is who finds the ibo. the “sacred” los that quixtar is fighting for doesn’t belong to them! they want to buy another g-5 on the sweat equity and contacts of TRUE LEADERS, not the work of the 2nd generation billionaires that are running the PRODUCT PORTAL(and nothing more than that). those ibos are brought in by people that have relationships with other people. please tell me which product does that. there are thousands of companies that would like volume from any group of loyal buyers. WHICH PRDUCT BUILDS COMMUNITIES? I’ll answer the easy ones, NONE. the los belongs to the people that built it. what everyone seems to be missing is that quixtar has already lost the business, TEAM is leaving. maybe they should be figuring out how to replace the business rather than continue to fight for what they have already lost. oh yeah that’s right, outside of TEAM(that group that builds the business wrong and needs to be retrained) they haven’t been able to grow in 4 years. unfortunately we know that the facts don’t count. we’ll have to see what the judge says. SEE YA QUIXTAR!!!!
September 4th, 2007 at 8:07 pm
What???!!! No mention of today’s ruling in TEXAS?
September 4th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Folks: While the PDF is a’coming, you may be able to find it elsewhere.
September 4th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
Tex -
If you’re waiting for Corp to VOLUNTARILY address that issue, your answer will occur later. At the moment, I believe they’re preparing to make some modifications to these blogs, and sending out some additional information to several hundred thousand IBOs …
September 4th, 2007 at 11:27 pm
#40 Steve said, “Since you obviously have never built the business let me explain some things.”
Obviously? Perhaps looking at my comments on other threads here at Aliticor Media Blog, as well as all the blogs over at Opportunity Zone would be a good thing to do before you make assumptions.
It might be smart to do your homework before addressing a person specifically. I’ve learned that the hard way.
#42 Shannon in CA said, “funny you’d criticize one of the fastest growing groups in Quixtar.”
I address this POOTA stat (plucked out of thin air) on another tread. Comment #279
http://media.alticorblogs.com/2007/08/24/order-from-the-court/#comments
“We tried building the business 9,4,2 with a 300 PV circle for each IBO.”
9-4-2….6-3…6-4-2…24-96-14…1,000-47…12-56-89-2
Were those 300 PV circles to be filled by your personal use? Or were they to be filled by your personal use as well as sales you made to customers?
September 5th, 2007 at 1:02 am
Sensorship lives even here at amway/alticor!!
September 5th, 2007 at 5:10 am
Bridgette 39
Obviously you don’t know how the mentoring process or The Teams depth building works. In the standard 9-6-3 the new IBO immediately starts sponsoring people who look to her for answers. It is possible a new IBO could sponsor say 6 people in a couple of weeks and not have a clue on how to build this business. Eventually, many, most will drop out and need to be replaced. In the depth approach there is always an experienced leader engaged with the new IBO. If someone joins The Team and are not ready to build the business they still benefit from the efforts of the experienced leader in the form of a growing rebate. Hopefully, you will see that The Team produces quicker results, long lasting IBO’s, and a more enjoyable business experience for everyone.
September 5th, 2007 at 5:13 am
Where’s yesterdays Texas ruling??? Waiting for the PDF??? All the other rulings posted immediately? I’m waiting on the immature, trash talking, spin doctor response this blog is so famous for!!
September 5th, 2007 at 5:48 am
THIS JUST IN:
COURT ORDER GRANTED IN TEXAS TODAY AGAINST QUIXTAR. PLEASE POST. CAN BE VIEWED AT THE IBO REBELLION WEBSITE.
September 5th, 2007 at 6:45 am
wow this probably stings a little. I guess I will be getting an appology email pretty soon.
http://theiborebellion.googlepages.com/TeamTRO1TEXAS.pdf
that Texas court order sounds rough.
September 5th, 2007 at 8:37 am
This is info for the people that like to find fault and point a finger at other people. (I can relate to this group because that is how I was [for over 20 years] but I am trying hard to change.) I was a warranty manager for a large home builder. I inspected the new homes with the building supervisor, sails agent and then the homeowner. If I missed anything that was wrong with the home before the house was sold to the homeowner, I had to fix it (on salary) If something went wrong after hours - weekends or holidays, the problem was mine problem. I got very picky and critical of people that did not do thing correctly. I forgot about all the good things that people did and looked at only the bad. I did not realize that I was also doing this to my wife and children.
If you live the life of a critic, old age is a very lonely place.
Please do not focus on the bad, take time to look at the good.
Take time to say thank you and please forgive me
Remember; what you focus on will determine your future. You can focus on all the bad and go nowhere or focus on your Dream; work hard, be committed, learn from (yours and there people’s) mistakes and go forward with your life.
Pa
PS 22 Liberty Rose
Thank you
September 5th, 2007 at 9:52 am
Wednesday, September 5, 2007
TEXAS SIZED VICTORY FOR TEAM
On Tuesday, September 4th a Texas judge issued a TRO against Quixtar. The
order bars Quixtar from a myriad of destructive and undermining activities
they have engaged in. Quixtar is required to remove any and all items that
disparage TEAM, its IBO’s, it’s training system, and it methods from its
Alticor Media Blog. This order also covered any of the other sites Quixtar
has it’s hand in. Quixtar has also been ordered to send an email to every
IBO in North America, informing them of this order. Quixtar has 24 hours
after being served with this order to comply.
TEMPORARY , MAYBE …TEETH IN IT ? OH YEAH !
September 5th, 2007 at 10:06 am
FACTS - LET’S LOOK AT THE FACTS WITH OUT ALL THE FLUFF AND BITTER COMMENTS.
-Quixtar does not want anything to do with Team
-Team does not want anything to do with Quixtar
-Quixtar believes products build the teams
-Team believes the educational training system builds the individual
-Quixtar wants to own/control the IBO with rules and regulations.
-Team wants to build the individual into leaders
-Quixtar wants to attack individuals in conflict
-Team wants to address the issus of the conflict.
-Quixtar wants to stay where they are and protect what they have.
-Team wants to be progressive and continue to improve themselves.
From what I can tell the facts show two very different organizations. Being in business for over 30 years it seems simple. When you have customers who no longer wish to associate with your organization, tell them thank you for your past business and wish them good luck. It is bad business to continue to make a public display so ugly that it affects your remaining business.
September 5th, 2007 at 10:08 am
Didn’t the court order in Texas give you 24hrs to remove all negative comments about Team from your sites? Running a little late are we? I would consider the “Just Go, Team” and several of the other “official” posts by Alticor to be negative at best.
September 5th, 2007 at 10:49 am
Quixtar/Amway/Alticor…Where is the email, I am waiting on your email saying you were ordered by the court to remove all your unprofessional, slandering blogs.
September 5th, 2007 at 11:15 am
TEAM vs Quixtar: A win for TEAM in Texas
My take - getting the disgraceful posts by the Alticor blogger taken down isn’t only a win for TEAM - it’s a win for all IBOs and the corp.
September 5th, 2007 at 11:16 am
#55 In2Win:
Good post!
September 5th, 2007 at 11:34 am
55 In2Win Says:
September 5th, 2007 at 10:06 am
I like the structure of this… seeking the facts.
You may want to go to the dictionary and learn the difference btwn facts and opinions and then write this again.
I bet you have received your “facts” from freetheibo web forum.
ex:
“Quixtar wants to own/control the IBO with rules and regulations.
-Team wants to build the individual into leaders”
This an opinion about Quixtar.. as are your other statements. Quixtar has to abide by the rules and regulations of the Federal Trade Commission and other organizations.
Quixtar/Amway is the only Corporation in the last 50 years to have a father/son be the CHAIRMAN of the UNITED STATE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.
I think Devos/VanAndel have more Business Credibility than Orrin/Brady.
By the way… with the way Amway is structured… Devos/VanAndel are the UPLINE of team ibos…. quit making them out to be enemies and Corporate Idiots.
Amway was started by Nutrilite Distributors and is still run by Devos/VanAndel.
TEAM has apparently educated their people very little about Amway, its founders, leaders, structure…. so its very easy for them to lie about Amway.
September 5th, 2007 at 11:39 am
51 makingadifference Says:
September 5th, 2007 at 5:48 am
Temporary Restraining Order. You still so desperate TEAM that you count this as “Major Victory”. I thought TEAM has great educational system…
Temporary = Temporary.
TRO do not mean/say Quixtar is an illegal pyramid. At best it means Q/A can’t terminate a certain TEAM ibo for two weeks until a Judge can hear the whole story.
TEAM celebrating TROs shows how desperate they are right now.
I still can’t find the Aug24 court decision on freetheibo site. The site was created to track info about “TEAM/Woodward,etc.. VS Quixtar” lawsuit…. yet the most important piece of info has yet to make it to their website yet (what the Judge in Court said after hearing both sides)
September 5th, 2007 at 11:58 am
10
Aron Gannon Says:
September 1st, 2007 at 12:29 am
I am glad you are going to go out and “kick your own butt” and get away from the computer and go help people. Show the Plan, Sell the Products, Stuff the Pockets! (yes i have listened to OLD tapes)
Aron, I have to wait until december07 to become a q/a ibo again so i figure i can help may mates a tad online.
Aug 10 or 15… whenever it was… was my first time blogging in my entire life as well. I have also stayed on too long.
I met a TEAM ibo who has invited my to a TEAM meeting (i guess like an Open meeting) in my local area in Texas. I plan to attend, blog rest of the week… and then i may stop completely.
At the TEAM meeting I expect to have fun, be entertained (i expect TEAM has good speakers) and hang out with TEAM ibos who i expect will be very cool people. I also believe i will get a better idea of how TEAM represents or misrepresents their Quixtar business. I promise to be respectful at the meeting.
September 5th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
Hmm … TRO seems to have been issued ex parte. Extremely unusual for a TRO to require action by the defendent, rather than cease and desist, and even more unusual when issued ex parte. I wouldn’t be surprised to see this one rapidly overturned, as much as I’d like to see these Alticor posts removed.
September 5th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
Oh, BTW, I just saw that TEAM’s non-compete in its contracts for the tools business is 1 year.
Yes, twice as long as the one from Q….
September 5th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Another one: Lets keep score properly:
Q’s 3 are all injunctions. Team’s 12 are all TRO’s. (TEMPORARY restraining orders, awaiting a judge’s review of the facts for a final decision.)
So it’s more like 3-0 ahead, with 12 games to play. And from a preliminary (very preliminary) reading of Q’s reply in California, it seems that the LAW prevents the California case from proceeding, as there is a prior case in Michigan, or something to that effect.
And strangely, Michigan TEAM, is sueing a Michigan Corporation, following Michigan law, in California!
Only in America.
September 5th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
To Those of you wondering why you cannot get a direct answer to tool profit, it is prohibited by Quixtar!!!! Stop making it an issue.
September 5th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
jthompson Says # 28
“Finally i became fed up… FOUND SOME RESOURCES by renowned soulwinners…and decided I can win more people than most churches also by myself.
(Caps added by rico for emphasis)
Hmmmm…so you have tools that helped you realize that you can have greater soul winning impact than most churches. Now — you not only capable of accurate assessment on TEAM, Orrin, etc, but now — you sit in judgement of “most churches”.
My; my; my! Do you have any idea how arrogant that sounded?
“Criticism is an indirect form of self-boasting” - Emmett Fox
Given the existing circumstance, what is the solution? Not what did Orrin do wrong;what did the TEAM do wrong; how is some blogger wrong?
What is the solution now? Wait for the lawsuit? Settle early? What would Billy Graham, Moody, and Osborn, give as counsel to Quixtar, to Orrin, the attorneys, etc?
Ralph Waldo Emerson said, “Criticism should not be querulous and wasting, all knife and root-puller, but guiding, instructive, inspiring”
I know what the root-puller view is, what is your inspiring vision for a resolution?
September 5th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
Bridgette,
If you’d like to find out about TEAM and how we build our business, I’ve found an informative, non-partial site, wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEAM_%28company%29
They’ve said: “It should be noted that the TEAM approach was approved my Quixtar and they have been one of the fastest growing groups for the past 8 years.”
9-4-2 you ask? it means 9 wide, then help them get 4, then help them get 2 and you’re platinum basically. I’m surprised you aren’t familiar with this structure.
The 300 PV was for personal consumption and for customers too. But does it matter? Very few if any duplicated this.
Anyway, who cares if what TEAM is doing is wrong in your opinion. We just want to leave and let you build your little happy product businesses. Which we soon will. Whether if it’s 6 months or 60 days, I’ll be doing what I want to do and you’ll be doing what you want to do. Just don’t critize when you have no clue about what we do.
September 5th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
so where’s the update here?? Didn’t Quixtar just get spanked in Texas today?
The PDF from the ruling will be mailed out to all quixtar IBOs within 24 hours of when it was released.
September 5th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
Tex,
Are you going to answer #26? …or “spin” away from that question?
September 5th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
You know this all could be over right now if the company would just allow the TEAM folks to move on in a peaceful way.. That is what they wanted from the start,(to go in peace).. sound familiar???
September 5th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
Still no PDF?? This looks like a Quixtar cover up! Maybe Q finally remembered the golden rule…If you can”t say something nice…Don’t say anything at all!!
September 5th, 2007 at 11:44 pm
#68 Sharon,
I just read through the Wikipedia article you linked, and it’s nothing more than a cleverly written screed promoting TEAM. “Order Consolidation Site”??? Quixtar only provides the Content and Commerce? If you look at the history of the Alticor companies, the whole “Community” building model was originated by Jay Van Andel and Rich DeVos, who improved on a model started by California Vitamins, the predecessor to Nutrilite. The “3 C’s” model Orrin et al. was appropriated from Michael Dell… it’s descriptive of the process, to be sure, but fails to properly credit Quixtar. The LOA’s, of which TEAM is one of many, were CREATED in the first place by Jay and Rich!!!
Someone has very cleverly put that Wiki article up as a place to send new prospects for so called “neutral” information… very interesting how it appears to even-handedly bring up and discuss “criticisms” and then demolish them and explain them away — always in a manner designed to benefit TEAM.
Who did you think you were kidding?!!! Is this another creation of Ashton Partners PR firm?
September 5th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
Sharon #68 — on further inspection I note that the TEAM “article” on Wikipedia has been “tagged” only since August 2007… would you agree that this article was designed and written by Ashton Partners as part of their PR set up around the legal situation, on behalf of Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady, et al.? So you’re abusing the neutrality of Wikipedia… will be interesting to see how long until a “content disputed” notice goes up on it!!!!
September 5th, 2007 at 11:53 pm
Reading from the court records of Ron Simmons hearing the judge ruled amoung other things that Quixtar could not in:
“#4. Disparaging the Team approach as used by Plaintiffs;”
Does that include some of Alticor’s blog postings? (Not the bloggers, but the companies introductory statements.) Are they in compliance with the injunction?
September 5th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Sharon #68… one more comment… will we see TEAM’s legal team citing this “neutral” site in their legal presentation on Sept. 12 in California, as a objective source of reliable, third-party information??? Have they been citing it already in the locations where TEAM has been granted TRO’s???
September 6th, 2007 at 12:16 am
What has Quixtar really lost?
-Millions of dollars in revenue
-The Governors seat at the next election
-10’s of thousands of IBOs
-40% of their market share
-Credibility
-Integrity
-100’s of thousands of IBOs long term (1 million or better to be exact)
-The only organization that was growing accross the board
-Belief from IBOs that this is a leadership team that they can follow without changing the rules as they seem fit
-Respect
-Did I mention the Governors Seat?
-THEIR FUTURE AS A COMPANY IN THE US-
OOPS
September 6th, 2007 at 12:22 am
Sharon #68… ooops, sorry, I should have looked a little closer before writing the second last post. It looks like you guys have had this Wikipedia article up since about May 7, 2007. (Correct me if I’ve got the date wrong.) How long before that were you planning it? As far back as your plans to leave Quixtar?
September 6th, 2007 at 12:54 am
#49 Quixkicked said, “Obviously you don’t know how the mentoring process or The Teams depth building works. ”
There’s that “obviously” word again.
See my #47 comment.
#68 Shannon in CA said, “If you’d like to find out about TEAM and how we build our business, I’ve found an informative, non-partial site, wikipedia.”
Wikipedia is a “non-partial” site? Not exactly. It’s written by people like you and me. And the information can change DAILY, depending on what people decide to write and/or challenge what’s already written.
Also notice that on the page you linked it says, at the top:
“THIS ARTICLE MAY REQUIRE CLEANUP TO MEET WIKIPEDIA’S QUALITY STANDARDS”
All that to say: Wikipedia is not a good source to support your “fastest-growing” stat.
“9-4-2 you ask?…I’m surprised you aren’t familiar with this structure.”
Did I say I wasn’t familiar with this structure?
“The 300 PV was for personal consumption and for customers too. But does it matter?”
Yes.
“Very few if any duplicated this”
Probably because the 300 PV was taught as strictly personal use, whether directly, or indirectly (a de-emphasis of retailing).
“Anyway, who cares if what TEAM is doing is wrong in your opinion”
You’re right. This isn’t about opinion, is it?
“Just don’t critize when you have no clue about what we do.”
I shouldn’t criticize regardless of whether or not I “have a clue”. No criticizing, condemning or complaining. Right?
With all due respect Shannon, TEAM’s past and current actions affect the entire IBO community. This isn’t just about the 15% of TEAM IBOs. There’s the other 85%. And let’s not forget all the Amway IBOs around the world who are affected by “what [you] do”.
This is much bigger than me, than you, than any one LOA.
Let’s have some perspective.
I appreciate your passion. And I take passionate people seriously when there is some substance behind that passion.
I do wish the very best to you and your family in all your endeavors.
Cheers.
September 6th, 2007 at 3:37 am
Anyone heard from TEX? I haven’t seen him blogging since the TRO went into effect…. Just a coincidence?
September 6th, 2007 at 8:29 am
FYI
September 4
Plaintiffs file reply in support of their motion for preliminary injunction
Announce that thousands of affidavits, including more than 130 in California, alone, have been executed by former and current Quixtar distributors supporting the plaintiffs’ motion for preliminary injunction
By responding to the plaintiffs’ allegations that it has been knowingly operating as an illegal pyramid scheme through silence, plaintiffs contend that Quixtar admits its guilt
Temporary Restraining Order granted to Team in Collin County, Texas
United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas, Sherman Division, grants plaintiffs’ request for a preliminary injunction order preventing Quixtar from interfering with plaintiffs’ business or business relationships
Court also grants Quixtar’s motion to compel arbitration
August 31
United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas, Sherman Division, holds evidentiary hearing on plaintiff’s motion for injunctive relief
August 29
Plaintiffs file combined response to Quixtar’s notice of motion and motion to dismiss or stay
The Eastern Division of Texas rejects Quixtar’s Anti-Injunction Act argument
August 28
Quixtar sends email to thousands of distributors threatening them with legal action if continue association with Team
Group of ex-Quixtar distributors announce that, contrary to statements issued by Quixtar on 8/24/07, the judge today ruled in favor of the distributors allowing continued participation in Team meetings
Quixtar forced to retract its premature claim of “complete defeat” for the distributors in the case
Temporary Restraining Order granted in favor of Lawrence v. Quixtar in Berks County, Pennsylvania
To date, the number of TROs granted heavily favors the distributors over Quixtar, 11-3
September 6th, 2007 at 8:55 am
To: Piet Strydom
TEAM is actualy a Nevada Corp, and the brief by Quixtar in Calif. is typical rhetoric in a lawsuit. This case isn’t about Michigan, it’s about the entire North America, and should be heard in a Feberal Court, not Quixtar’s backyard.
September 6th, 2007 at 9:09 am
66 wendy you are so wrong, making a profit is not prohibited. On Page 9 of the new QBOB it clearly reads ” Some IBOs sell Business Support Materials (BSM)independently of Quixtar, these include DVD’s Cds books, websites, seminars and business conventions. Some IBos earn income from the sale of these BSM apart from their earnings under the the IBO compensation Plan”
September 6th, 2007 at 9:16 am
For the PDF look at #52 Jack
# 68 through 72, easy now. I agree with you but lets not get out of hand with the mud slinging and finger pointing. I mean, look at the way the corporation responds to things that happen, it rubs off on everyone associated with them. I encourage everyone, in TEAM or not, to step back and see how rediculous this is to try and use your opinion to sway someone who just wants to argue or has their own opinion. People for Quixtar/Amway/Alticor will ALWAYS support them if they feel they are in the right the same way TEAM associates will ALWAYS support them if they think they are right. Point fingers digitally, name call, insult each other, you’ll never meet each other. If you do somehow meet each other, you’d be embrassed at how childish we’ve acted.
To the corporate blog administrator.
If you are going to only bash TEAM, please add information cited outside of your own website. That really doesn’t prove anything aside that you are in communication with your web team to update the site as needed. I’m not urging anyong to critic my idea of credibility towards Quixtar but, other resources help support their stand.
I wish everyone luck in their personal lives and hope that all of you will move forward after all of the smoke has cleared and the decisions have been finalized. And remember, we are all human.
September 6th, 2007 at 9:18 am
I do understand that many of the others have been very rude and unprofessional. Disregard the blog trolls and argumentive people. I’m not pointing you guys out of the entire group on purpose, I just feel that everyone (not just you) needs to take it easy. I could’ve wrote that but figured you guys would be more reasonable since you seem to be associated with a more professional organization.
Best wishes.
September 6th, 2007 at 9:55 am
Solutions
- Drop lawsuit and drop negative PR campaign
- Orrin can begin other business adventures but leave all Quixtar ibos alone
- Read “Soulwinning by tl osborn”
- Churches are amazing. The church is the body of Christ Jesus. I love the church. They are the light in this world that keeps darkness at bay. B/c the church is so great, we need to tell more people good news of jc to expand the church.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:43 am
Tired of all this! #70,
I did answer. I didn’t spin. It hasn’t been posted yet.
September 6th, 2007 at 11:32 am
I find very interesting that the judge sees it the same way as the Team IBO’s see it when he says that Quixtar states that Plaintiffs are in violation of the rules of conduct but then can give NO PROOF of such violations……
You’ll have to copy and paste this one….
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
September 6th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
Why have we not heard anything else about Texas on this blog? Where is my email?
September 6th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
when is alticor going to comply with the ruling in texas to take all damning things off this blog site?
September 6th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
Quote by Ronald Reagan in Historic Speech
“The problem with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know to much that isn’t so.”
Freetheibo is a liberal/progressive website spreading myths about Amway.
the freetheibo forum has a total of about 2000 posts total since its creation. Over 200+ posts have been banned by the moderator b/c they did not agree with TEAMs message.
September 6th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
#88
Do you not realize that Quixtar was not represented at that hearing? Kind of hard to present evidence when you are not there, don’t you think?
Administrator, if I am wrong on this please feel free not to post this.
September 6th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
Just checked and it is definitiely an “exparte” order, meaning Quixtar was not present or represented in the hearing.
September 6th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Defining VICTORY:
It is easy to drown under all this information and “spin” from bloggers/documents
QUIXTAR VICTORY: Business As Usual. Enforce their rules and contracts including non-compete, bsms, & stacking.
TEAM VICTORY: Court final decision rule that Quixtar is an Illegal Pyramid AND All TEAM IBOs are free from non-competes to join another mlm…
Guys, keep things simple. Feel free to correct my definitions of VICTORY for both sides.
September 6th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
The Tro was GRANTED to TEAM , BYBY
September 6th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
#77 Ivan Omalley:
Dick Devos, who ran for governor, is no longer a part of Quixtar. He resigned shortly after helping Amway transform into Q. Quixtar is not running for Governor.
TEAM was only 15% of Quixtar’s business. And there are plenty of TEAM IBOs who have chosen to stay w/Quixtar and learn to build the business properly. (And by properly, I mean they are learning to sponsor within the guidelines, as well as learning to retail the products instead of retailing BSMs.)
Most of TEAMs IBOs aren’t bust blogging on your freetheibo site. They’re busy learning to be REAL IBOs rather than BSM pushers. The whole “Going One Million” thing is chuckle worthy at best.
September 6th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
How did my link get changed??
September 6th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
jthompson,
I left you a message regarding the TEAM system in the Ada-tudes blog under “Brief Responds to Lawsuit”. I wasn’t sure where you’d be hanging out next.
September 6th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
Just saw on another blog more Team Leadership has resigned….VanBuskirk, Granger, & Abrahams so far!!! It sounds like more leaders to follow….That’s a lot of PV!!
September 6th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
Injunctions/TROs/ against both sides, TEAM and Alticor both doing a tip-toe to avoid violations, rumors of leaders like Larry VanBuskirk, Matt Abraham, Jeff Granger, resigning. More filings, affidavits — California court coming up soon.
Alticor remaking itself. Wants to be the Bloomingdales of the web. TEAM wants to have the Walmart of the web.
At this point the cat’s amoung pigeons, who knows where the birds will land or who’ll get hit with droppings in the process. Good time to take a vacate a little until the pigeons have landed.
Doesn’t matter, doesn’t matter, doesn’t matter… I wonder where the pigeons will be a year from now? How many will the cat have gotten?
September 6th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
E-mail? Hell, I think they’ve shut down this blog. Or, perhaps, are afraid to update it?
Hmmmm…
September 7th, 2007 at 1:08 am
Well All I can say is while all this law stuff is going on. Other Unified groups are kicking. the VM system has been going crazy just in the last few days about the excitement from the new products and the sales responses coming in from excited IBO. Team I wish you would have stuck it out. The Corp has made the changes. We realize it takes time to turn a huge ship but don’t jump out of a roller coaster while it is on track. The rides is only getting better and we are excited for the future. The tools system and the registration process was Woodwards issues. They just got to far on track thinking it was right that now they believed it. What did they just throw out all the rules and contracts and think they did not apply since they got a bunch of people thinking that. You do not hear the other 75% of the Alticor volume producers complaining about the rules.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:16 am
Amway’s Asian Business is the future.
The smoking mirrors are becoming clearer.
Amway products are being sold in the retail market place overseas
Teams growth is not in line with the future for Amway.
-they grew-
If you want to dissolve the distributorships so you can start selling over the counter, you have to stop the growth.
Steve VanAndel didn’t spend all that time in China for nothing
5 years from now Ocean Essantials will be on Walmarts shelves for a third of the cost like what’s happened in Asia
Just like Oxy-Clean, manufactured and distributed from Amway is half of the price that the distributors can purchase at.
Other name brand items run side by side with the same products that we buy and can not sell because of the rediculous prices we pay.
Here’s a future headline: US distributors can no longer build Amway. Company launches a new retail market approach. Due to hit shelves October 2010.
If you’re just looking for name recognition, you better get rid of those pesky IBOs and put your stuff on the shelves for everyone to see the NAME of AMWAY?
Guess what, that still won’t buy votes!
Be very careful who you’re loyal to. A snake always bites when it’s threatened.
September 7th, 2007 at 5:25 am
To Thunderstruck:
It is not TEAM company that has launched the lawsuit, it is the individual IBO’s. They are all Michigan citizens. They have accepted that the agreement with Q is subject to Michigan law.
September 7th, 2007 at 7:45 am
why hasn’t my post gone up in response to Tex #29
September 7th, 2007 at 9:56 am
I think I’ll quit Quixtar-Amway-Alticor now.
September 7th, 2007 at 10:41 am
Someone tell my why Quixtar is not in violation of their own rules:
Upon final notification by the Corporation with respect to those changes presented to the IBOA International Board, such changes will be communicated to all IBOs in a timely manner in official Corporation literature, and shall become effective upon publication. In order to preserve the goals and purposes of the IBO Plan, the Corporation reserves to itself the sole right to adopt, amend, modify, supplement, or rescind any or all of these Rules, as necessary with respect to cases of Rules enforcement. In the event the Corporation deprives an IBO of a substantial and material property right through such adoption, amendment, modification, supplementation, or rescission, such IBO shall have the right to bring such matter to the attention of the IBOA International Board for further discussion, evaluation, and recommendation.
I have yet to receive anything mailed to my home, or even emailed, that mentions the changes that have taken place. The Quixtar name is to be replaced by Amway, if I understand page 2 of the SA4400 replacement 12 pager.
As of the morning of Sep 7th, I have not received a copy, while I have found out I can now order a copy.
So Quixtar is making me tell new prospects something they haven’t told me.
Alticor should do what I have been asking since August 10th when I found out some of this.
They need to allow all Quixtar IBOs the choice that was offered in 1999. The choice to stay in the Current business or choose the new Amway they are creating.
The reason the American Way Assoc. was started in 1959 was Rich and Jay wanted to fix it so the corporation could not do what the corporation is doing now.
Fix this now. Allow 1999 to repeat and the IBOs chose to stay with Quixtar or go back to Amway.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:16 am
Okay its funny that alticor admins. said it would be posted on TUESDAY due to LABOR DAY. But it is welll past Tuesday and still I see no court order posted by ALITCOR but rather some sort of form was posted in post #88.
As for me, I’m not an IBO of Quixtar, however my boyfriend is. He wanted me to try some products to see how well I liked it, since I was always using MAC make-up one of the top lines of makeup, i believe. However he said this brand (NAO) was very good. So I decided why not? I mean I’ve used Maybelline and that was fine, why not try something that is suppose to be better quality? HOW WRONG I WAS. NAO does not even show any color, and especially for $13 a tube, it was definately not worth it. I could get a better product at Walmart (Maybelline) for 1/3 of the price. Not to mention even MAC sells their products for cheaper! For those of you who don’t know MAC is a pretty expensive make-up line. So to say the PRODUCTS is what makes the business, it does not seem so.
Secondly, the Quixtar name is pretty bad itself. Anytime my boyfriend mentioned to any of my friends he had a business, they would automatically be “Oh is it that Quixtar thing? That’s an illegal pyramid, why are you doing that?” But now to change it to AMWAY, that’s even crazier! Imagine the responses you will get.
Third, for those criticizing the TEAM system, have you even heard a CD? I mean try listening to Tim and Amy Marks, Chris and Terri Brady. Although I’m not an IBO, just listening to their thoughs on LEADERSHIP, INTEGRITY, HONOR, RESPECT, makes you want to be that kind of person. For me, I can see the clear differences between my friends associated with TEAM and my friends that go out night after night, or my friends that aren’t plugged in. Those in the TEAM care for one another and have a close bond.
It’s funny that Tex and some of these other folks are talking bad about Orrin and whoever else in the TEAM, because thousands and thousands of others believe in everything they stand for. I know seeing these leaders in person and having them care enough to get to know their groups (yes even the little IBO’s) show that they do have integrity.
However, whatever I say isn’t going to make anything change
“People of integrity expect to be believed and when they’re not, they will let time prove them right.”
I’m sure the leaders will let time prove their integrity. September 12 is not too far away.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
Gladiator: We had to embed the link. Because the URL was rather lengthy, the way it was cut and pasted was causing issues in Internet Explorer (the margins looked funky). Rest assured your link is still in place.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
98Aron,
Your awesome message about your personal experience with a new TEAM ibo is included at http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/index.php/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,91/func,view/id,6166/catid,27/
It is OBVIOUS that TEAM was playing a different game as the rest of IBOs in Amway/Quixtar.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
Leave this moderator alone. I have made about 3-4 long posts about Orrin that have never been posted. They have been fair for both sides.
This moderator does has not banned bloggers that disagree like freetheibo forum does. This moderator will not delete your entire history of posts w/o reason why like freetheibo did to my 80 comments and like they have done to many more people.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
#104 Piet Strydom
Actually, your statement, “They are all Michigan citizens” is not correct.
There are nearly as many NON-Michigan residents in the lawsuit.
This is a multi-state issue as Quixtar is a multi-state business.
I have a question.
Since Quixtar is NOT a Michigan corporation, why does it matter?
Why not go to Virginia for example?
September 7th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
99 Quixkicked Says:
September 6th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
that is not a lot of pv resigning. Its about 300-1000pv per ibo at the very most.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
102 Johnny D - he is right on! If you are a Quixtar IBO that is not being affiliated that listen to Johnny D, he knows!
“What did they just throw out all the rules and contracts and think they did not apply since they got a bunch of people thinking that. You do not hear the other 75% of the Alticor volume producers complaining about the rules.”
Get plugged back into your upline, listen to cds, etc…
September 7th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
#92 BK….I guess I get a different understanding of the words “the court HEARD the testimony of SEVERAL Quixtar representatives”…key word=HEARD?? How does that happen if they weren’t there or is the judge lying too?
REPORT AND RECOMMENDATIONS OF UNITED STATES MAGISTRATE JUDGE GRANTING PLAINTIFF’S APPLICATION FOR PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION AND
GRANTING DEFENDANT’S MOTION TO COMPEL ARBITRATION……………
Preliminary Injunction
At the preliminary injunction hearing, the Court heard the testimony of Plaintiffs, several independent Quixtar IBOs, and several representatives of Quixtar. On examination, none of Quixtar’s representatives were able to definitely state which Team materials abridge the Rules of Conduct.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
JT#91,
Care to tell me what “myths” are being spread by TEAM? Also, please remember that we have never broken any rules of conduct and our leaders were terminated without cause…at least not any of the causes Q* claims.
And hey moderator, aren’t you supposed to clean up any disparaging remarks about TEAM from this little site of yours?
September 7th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Piet Strydom:
Since you are so impressed with Qs brief, be sure you read the mighty 15s response. Much more impressive document, backed up by a lot more solid evidence of why there will be a trial.
September 7th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Administrator:
The Texas topic posts outnumber the Scheibeler recants post by a large margin today (and it’s early). How about a new post: QUIXTAR DEFEAT: MOTION FOR DISMISSAL DENIED?
September 7th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Is it just me or does it really seem that TEAM is shooting themselves in the foot? To start with… their claim that Q/A is a pyramid seems to make some sense when you understand how they (TEAM) were building it. By VIOLATING the Q/A rules of conduct, TEAM has moved closer into that illegal grey area. The whole “sip twice, eat once, get your friends and get rich” concept is NOT how this business should be built.
Which brings me to my next point. While TEAM has been breaking these rules of conduct and not properly informing people of what they are really getting into, they have amassed a growing number of people who are not happy with their circumstances. You end up with 1400 afidavids from unhappy IBO’s that TEAM has tried to steer towards Q/A.
My feeling is that, if TEAM had been following the rules of conduct when introducing new prospects then there would not be the bitterness that we see now. Bottom line… if TEAM has that many unhappy IBO’s then TEAM has obviously been doing something wrong. I see these 1400 complaints as a knock against TEAM, not Amway. They support the Q/A position in that the rules of conduct are there to be followed in order to avoid such a mess.
September 7th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
TEAM don’t try to tell Alticor how to run their blog.
Go back to freetheibo site - i have yet to see more than 5 blogging users online in the last 2 weeks out of 75k ibos. That site needs your help.
____
Please go back to the Ashton run website and help Ashton Partners to do as Orrin/TEAM paid them to do, “Manage and Position information to affect (Amways) Reputation negatively”
_____
IS THERE A TEAM IBO THAT WILL ARGUE WITH THE FOLLOWING FACTS?
1. Ashton is being paid by TEAM
2. Ashton is a PR firm
3. Ashton has their mission statement online, which includes “manage and position information….”
4. Freetheibo site is being run by Ashton
5. Freetheibo purpose is to “manage and position information to support TEAM lawsuit/message and to dis-support Quixtars side of the story”
“manage” - determine which information you want to include… which information supports your message
“position” - present the info that you do include in a way that most positively impacts your reputation… and hurts reputation of the one against you.
September 7th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Quixtar_complaint_v._woodward_and_brady.pdf
the story - read paragraph 50’s…
September 7th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
119 Pat
Maybe some research would not make you look so bad. Which rules of conduct are they VIOLATING? And how does that move them into the “grey” area? If you read the lawsuit it explains why “pyramid”. How should this business be built, the “Pat” way? Do you even know what is in the “afidavids”? How do you know how TEAM introduces prospects, (thru heresay)? Don’t they have to use the “Quixtar” registration to get started. I don’t know for sure, but I think the IBO’s ARE unhappy with Quixtar/Amway and not TEAM. Just my take, nothing personal.
September 7th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
#107 Utah:
You cannot chose to stay w/Quixtar after the transfomration is complete. There will no longer be a business entity called Quixtar.
#108 Freedom:
Were you using a sheer lip color? I’ve never had a problem using NAO lipcolors. And I love love love the loose mineral pigment.
I have heard a couple of the TEAM CDs. Both my boyfriend and I are TEAM IBOs. He considers TEAM family. I consider them opportunists who misrepresent themselves under the guise of MLM.
They whole feel good-improve your life thing is all fine and dandy, but Quixtar is a retail business. And they’re not teaching you the basics of retailing.
September 7th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
121. jthompson
I won’t argue with you but I will make some statements.
The TEAM is NOT paying for the attorneys in the CA Class Action lawsuit, it is being paid by the plaintiffs.
I would assume that the TEAM will pay for any attorney’s fees that pertain to it’s business operations of leadership development system(bsm’s) as related to Quixtar.
I think you are mixing the potential “class”(ie. TEAM affiliated IBOs) with individual TEAM leaders(plaintiffs).
Okay, what is your point on 2-5(unless you are responding to someone elses post i missed)…..It is a class action lawsuit being handled by professionals. It is what professionals get paid to do. What is THIS blog all about?
Honest question here, what is your affiliation in this?
I am a Quixtar Founders Platinum using the TEAM BSM,s.
Are you an Alticor-Quixtar-Amway employee?
Are you an IBO?
Do you have a downline?
September 7th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
JT#120&121,
WHAT MYTHS ARE TEAM SPREADING? WHAT RULES OF CONDUCT HAVE THEY BROKEN?
The reason these questions are so hard for you to answer is because the answers are “None” and “None.”
September 7th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
#119 Pat, no, it’s just you. You have the TEAM concept all wrong. We have NEVER been violating the rules, Quixtar needs to clain something, but it’s mighty thin thread.
September 7th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Interesting reading from Rich Devos’ book
qreilly.blogspot.com
If the original Nutrilite company held Devos and VanAndel to the same “RULES” that Quixtar has on it’s ibos, AMWAY WOULD HAVE NEVER EXISTED!!!!!
It was because of someone with a dream in the FREE ENTERPRISE sys