Online Clomid

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August 31st, 2007 @ 10:29 am ET…

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Online clomid, The following comes from a complaint Ron Simmons filed in court in Texas today. Haven't had time to PDF it yet, Virginia VA Va.. Nebraska NE Nebr., The interesting part reads:

"The Woodwards and Bradys at one time operated a business support training business that functions and exists entirely independently from Quixtar, namely TEAM, Colorado CO Colo.. New York NY N.Y., The Woodwards and Bradys have resigned their positions from TEAM."

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Filed by: Corporate Communications

Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation

177 Responses to “Online Clomid”

jthompson Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 10:44 am
Ron Simmons

From what i see on the freetheibo forum Ron filed a lawsuit/complaint against Quixtar in Texas on August 22nd?

Ron also thinks Quixtar is an illegal pyramid… not just for a couple days but for years…. b/c high prices….

Clarification comment #13
Ron Simmons Says:
August 29th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
“We are all still IBOs using the materials for our Q business.”

Ok Ron, Mr. Integrity -

So you are you are in agreement with Orrin and Chris - Quixtar is an illegal pyramid. So recruiting prospects, operating a Quixtar business is illegal…. and is Immoral….

So why are you continuing to build a Q/A business?

Remind me again of the “Facts” that you know so well….

What does it say about Ron’s integrity to knowingly break the law for months and years… profiting off of it?

Orrin, Chris, Ron… a persons integrity is only as good as their word.

O/C - gave your word to keep iboai trade documents confidential and you broke your word. You agreeing to iboai confidentiality was a lie. period.

Now you want to break you word/agreement again by being exempt by non-compete rules.

Ron Simmons has said that Orrin/Chris/TEAM is not asking for money in the lawsuit… just freedom….
Well you are misleading people. You want to take Quixtar IBOS downline and crossline and confidential information… and use the people to make money in other business ventures.
Steve Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 10:59 am
Whats the point of posting this? I know you are trying to point out the statement about Woodwards and Bradys resigning from TEAM but who the heck cares at this point. They are not Quixtar “employees” now and if they choose to resign from TEAM for what ever reasons so be it.
jthompson Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 11:00 am
p.s. Ron is probably a great guy… great husband, father, and person.

It is possible for great people to make errors in judgement. I know i have. Just ask “King David” from Bible days. He was the #1 stud spiritually/morally around… and at his height… he committed adultery and murder…
They key is david (after he realized mistakes) he confessed it and changed his ways…
Shaun Carter Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 11:11 am
This is definitely shocking that Orrin and Chris would leave TEAM. that would make their class action lawsuit completely pointless. I imagine it is a typo and should have read “Quixtar” at the end and not “TEAM.”
pinger Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 11:39 am
You have no idea what you are talking about. As usual this Corporation is placing just the right slant on things so it’s employees (which by the way, I had the understanding that I was an Independent Business Owner - not an “employee”, at least that’s what I signed up to be) will believe what the Corporation determines appropriate, and that which ultimately benefits the Corporation.

To other IBOs - if you are not affiliated with the TEAM, then you have no position to comment on it’s leaders. They are men of integrity and concern, not to mention desire to make a difference in this world — not simply to gold plate their pockets as the owners of Amway have done for years upon years.

Get a clue people, this Corporation called Amway, Alticor, Quixtar is out for #1 - increasing the wealth of the the ownders at your expense. They do not care about you. What have they done for you, to help your business grow? Have they come and worked in your group to help you?

The leaders of the TEAM have done that for me. I have personally met several of them and they have come and worked in my downline to help motivate and encourage us. They are committed to Have Fun, Make Money and Make a Difference — not just for them selves, but for everyone who wants to associate with them.

To the owners of Alticor, Amway, and Quixtar - learn the definition of integrity and then you may have something to talk about. And to those of you who are blinded by the Corporate lip service, use the free will God gave you to listen to all the facts and exercise proper discernment to arrive at a conclusion on your own. Do not be fooled by the influence of this Coporation. They do not care about you as a person or as an IBO - in fact they consider you property, field agents, employees — indentured servants.

This is the home of the free and the brave. The ladies and gentleman (term used lightly) of this Corporation are certainly not brave as they hide behind scandal and deceit of the people they employ.

The leaders of the TEAM seek to help the world become FREE so they can actually improve the quality of thier lives.
Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 11:56 am
jthompson: It has come to our attention that you are posting rather frequently and under multiple handles (i.e. ‘johnnymoses’). We strongly suggest you stick with one identity. Your comments will remain in our moderation queue for the time being.

Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.
Johnnymosesthompson Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 11:59 am
my full name is johnny moses thompson. that is what my last few posts on multiple sites has been. I use the same email on all.

Please post.
jthompson Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 12:12 pm
5 pinger,

It appears you are one of the few that have not been banned from the freetheibo site.

indentured servant was one of their favorite terms.

TEAM leaders are doing what Dexter Yager warned about in his 82′ Pearl club tapes. TEAM leaders have served earned the trust of a lot of people… and now they are Raping their group for their own selfish agendas.

TEAM orrin, chris… had a lot of power… developed super-powered pride and ego… and they are going to hit the floor as fast as they rose to the top.

tex, ibofightback, jthompson, ibo1998, anotherview, and many more… have all been banned from TEAM forum and all their posts have been eliminated. Have any TEAM ibos been banned? One guy named Armando… called me a curse word… and he was not banned.
Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 12:16 pm
Johnnymosesthompson: Thank you for clearing that up. Yes, we did see you were using the same email. As you’ve used ‘jthompson’ on this blog predominantly, may we suggest you stick to that?
rdknyvr Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 12:37 pm
jthompson #8 and others,

The reason you’ve been banned from FreeTheIBO site is because it’s run by the PR firm Woodward et al. hired as a part of their strategic game plan. The guy running it or behind it is Michael Geczi of Ashton Partners PR firm. The purpose is NOT to provide a discussion forum for just anyone, but as a piece of their Internet defense/attack negative PR strategy… all thought out in advance. Just look at the end of their press release “Judge Issues Clarification…” and connect the dots.
rdknyvr Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 12:48 pm
Another piece of Ashton Partners’ (Team’s) strategy has been to goad Alticor PR into an open, negative hammer-and-tongs battle which Alticor can never win, even if (and when) they win in court. The negative fall-out is intended by Team strategies to play against Alticor and impact Team members (solidify commitment) and weaken or cause disengagement on the parts of many ‘neutral’ IBOs who just want to build a business and are being hurt by the negatives.

The sad part is that Alticor PR fell for the gambit and instead of playing the “harmless as doves and wise as serpents” strategy, has abandoned the winning approach modelled for them by Quixtar PR and gone for the thumb-in-your-eye too approach.
MojoMan Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Just curious, is the PDF going to be posted in this blog today?

Also, is there any way to verify this information as true?
jthompson Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 12:54 pm
i don’t know for sure…

but if i had to guess….

TEAM does not expect to win any law suits. Their purpose is to bring as much negative to Amway name as they can… and continually… with persistence…. until they are released from non-competes.

Read the lawsuit. It made me laugh….
Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 2:03 pm
MojoMan: Once a PDF becomes available to us, it will be posted ASAP.

The text comes straight from today’s filing. Curiosity fills the halls here, as well.
Jeff Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Can we say that there are good people on both sides of this mess? I’d love for the founding families to dig up Compassionate Capitalism, Believe, and the Bible and reinstate the founding principles of this business.

I Love this business and we need to pray for Steve and Doug to make wise decisions that will effect the next generation.
Tex Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 2:53 pm
My take on this is Orrin/Chris “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward/Brady resigned from TEAM so that TEAM can go on selling their tools without them being legally connected. They are probably still being payed a “consulting” fee, or have some of the profits “set aside for future projects (like a new house)”.

On a related issue, when are the Platinums and above supposed to contact their downline and tell them which side of the fence they are taking? Or are they still figuring out how they’re going to tell us we’re changing back to the Amway name, which effectively starts tomorrow?
MojoMan Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Thanks Admin. We are indeed curious!
mkay Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 3:51 pm
It seems that most on this blog are pro Amway/Quixtar. However I foresee that changing once Amway/Quixtar goes public with it’s deal with Walmart. It seems to me that all you pro Amway are going to have a much harder time building your businesses once your prospects can go to Walmart and buy the same product at well below IBO price. Perhaps asking Amway about this would be a good idea.
jthompson Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Orrin Woodward

check this out - http://orrin-woodward-team.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/4/16/2884171.html

let me share my favorite sentences -
“of all the presents, corp executives, heads of state… in the entire world, Orrin’s Leadership is in the top 1%”
or this one
“I know of no one who can cast a vision like Orrin Woodward. Orrin is an expert in the field of Visioneering”

ROFL!!!!!

Everyone - Read how great Orrin says he is!

I love Orrin’s picture on the front page… wrapping himself with red,white,&blue… oh yeah - don’t forget the Eagle - got to make sure you brand youself as Mr. All American. Read Tony Robbins book called “unlimited power” - the chapter on anchoring. goto amazon and type “anchoring” under the UP book “look inside”

Orrin has multiple blog websites that are heavily promoted within TEAM that talk about how great he is.

Orrin - this reminds me of when Bernarr Macfadden (the founder/influencer of physical culture movement which led to bodybuilding/fitness and Bernarr was a Publishing Giant … with the biggest magazine/newspaper publishing giant in the world)… of when Bernarr had a friend write an autobiography about him… “Story of Success” telling everyone how great he is… b/c he wanted to get elected President.

I think this is hilarious!

History is full of “Leaders of character and integrity” start off well… then get a glimpse of unlimited power… and their ego/pride allows them (deceived themselves) to start using their own people.
jthompson Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 4:25 pm
ORRIN - This guy sure has a big opinion of himself.

So far i have found over 5 websites with his name as the main domain name… talking about how great he is.

They are all written by Orrin or with his approval/posting.

I think i am going to try this - it works for Orrin.
mkay Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Do the powers that be have issue with my comments? I’m wondering where my comment went. Or is Alticor afraid to post it because of the questions it will generate.
In2Win Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 4:51 pm
After a lot of research it appears your organization has done every thing to discredit Diamonds who have tried to make this a equitable opportunity for your. History - has shown that your company has lacked integrity for over 60 years.

Why should anything you say now matter?
Steve Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 5:00 pm
jthompson,

What part of the complaint made you laugh? Was it the fact that only 3.4% of Quixtar’s total volume comes from customers? Seriously, out of all of those plans being showed out there, out of all of those IBOs in and out of Quixtar, the fact that they can’t get any customer volume to stick is quite telling. I think the complaint is right on the money.
samuel Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 5:01 pm
WHERE IS YOUR INTERGRITY?
Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Tex, et al: There seem to be some misconceptions about the new Amway, specifically that Amway is “back tomorrow.” Amway is not yet open for business again in North America. As the new Amway will return within the next one to two years, there is information given to IBOs with this year’s renewal process that refers to the future Amway business. Just clearing that up.

mkay: We make every effort to review and approve comments as quickly as possible. Your original comment is above. And, perhaps you would be interested in today’s post over on the Adatudes blog.
jthompson Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 5:23 pm
the complaint in this blog did not make me laugh
rico Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Jthompson writes: “O/C - gave your word to keep iboai trade documents confidential and you broke your word. You agreeing to iboai confidentiality was a lie. period.

Now you want to break you word/agreement again by being exempt by non-compete rules.Well you are misleading people. You want to take Quixtar IBOS downline and crossline and confidential information… and use the people to make money in other business ventures.”

Mr. Thompson, there are times when it is justifiable to break your covenant. It is not something that should be taken lightly, but if you have a confidentiality agreement with someone and they are using it to keep you silent that they are cheating others, are you still bound by the original agreement. We pay money to support the the existence of the IBOAI and they are elected to serve our interests. It is a moral dilema to choose between protecting the people who you are supposed to protect and those who want to coerce you into silence when the two are in conflict.

When the facts are hidden, who can truly judge? If things are ethical and above board, why does the IBOAI (representing us) want it hidden from us?

I cannot look into the hearts of the TEAM leaders and know their intention; at at this point they are legally bound not to explain it. I cannot look into the hearts of the Amway dynasty and know their true intentions.

I understand Amway’s concern about “losng their people”. On the other hand, Amway didn’t show them the plan…you did. They are your
people, your family, your friends, your business acquaintenances.

I haven’t seen anything that suggests that the TEAM wants to take people against their will, they don’t want them held against their will. If you felt you signed a contract to buy a house and realized that you were paying a higher price than it was worth, there’s nothing wrong with wanting to reneotiate the contract. Contracts are renegotiated all the time in the business world. It’s not a lack of integrity.

Half of all marriages end in divorce in spite of a contract of “til death do us part”. Do we run around yelling “lack of integrity they broke their contract” when friends get divorced? Network marketing is a relationship business.
Tex Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Jeff #15,

I’d like them to use the Bible as well. Especially the parts about “smite”.

Administrator #25,

That’s why I said “effectively” starts tomorrow. If you don’t think the other side won’t make a big deal of this, or prospects won’t notice (except for TEAM, they probably didn’t use the SA-4400, why would they use the QBOB? Besides, they think Quixtar is an illegal pyramid, why would they give prospects evidence of what they’re joining?)
Tex Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 8:00 pm
samuel #24,

We have extra integrity. Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward gave away all he had when he left.
RH Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 9:54 pm
Are you all really that blind????

“Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Tex, et al: There seem to be some misconceptions about the new Amway, specifically that Amway is “back tomorrow.” Amway is not yet open for business again in North America. As the new Amway will return within the next one to two years, there is information given to IBOs with this year’s renewal process that refers to the future Amway business. Just clearing that up.”

Do you really think we can tell someone that this is not Amway and hand them a brochure that shows it will be whether it was 1 month or 2 years away? How do they not look at that and say “This is Amway”? Are they not getting in for the long term? It just shows again how corporate does NOT understand what is done when a plan is show and a dream is cultivated with a prospect that they can indeed get out of the 95% rat race.

You all “cleared things up all right” made it abundently clear that this IS Amway. Your statement really clears up how much you do not understand what “Independent Business Owner” means. But, I guess you already cleared up your misunderstanding of that issue when your counsel called IBOs your “property”.
IBO-in-PA Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 9:58 pm
It appears that the folks having a really good time with this are the legal teams. How ironic that the people that stand to make the most in this short time of confusion are the lawyers. I believe that the rhetoric from Alticor is uncalled for. I believe that Alticor and their legal team should lower their rhetoric. It doesn’t seem right to have a daily taunt from their legal team when there are so many individuals and families in the middle of this.
Brad Obert Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 10:51 pm
This is located on www.ibofacts.com

Question 13:

Do higher level IBOs make money from the sale of tapes, books, and tickets?

Yes, IBOs (Independent Business Owners) can earn money from the sale of tapes, books, and tickets. IBO leaders are successful managers of large businesses. Some leaders have thousands of other IBOs in their organization, spread across North America. As business leaders and managers, they have the responsibility to educate and motivate these other Independent Business Owners. What they offer are professional development materials focused specifically on their business.

In addition, IBO leaders pay for the production facilities, equipment, technicians, accountants, assistants, and other employees necessary to produce such training and motivational materials. They incur the expenses and, of course, realize profits or losses from their efforts, as with any other business.

It is important to note that professional development and education is an international multibillion-dollar business. Authors such as Dr. Stephen Covey (The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People) earn incomes from the sale of books and other materials and conducting seminars. Bookstores everywhere offer hundreds of “how-to” books, tapes, and videos on a variety of topics. Producing and selling books, tapes, and meetings is nothing new to the business world.

This appears to be from the corporation. It appears they don’t have a problem with “some” IBO’s making money from system tools. Why would they have a problem with more IBO’s making $ from this same system, based on how large their groups are?

Just wonderin’
jthompson Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 11:40 pm
http://www.orrinwoodward.com/articles/An_Attorneys_Perspective.html

Observations
1. a Lawyer on Orrins team saying that their mlm business (Quixtar) is Legal.
2. Is this an example of how TEAM hides the name Quixtar/Amway from their Quixtar/Amway business?
3. From reading TEAM ibo blog comments and reading Orrins blogs, and freetheibo language…. Did Orrin disguise his Quixtar business so well that he didn’t believe he had a Quixtar business?

Orrins has build a mlm empire, but it appears he built it on foundation of deception so his empire is gone now.
jthompson Says:
September 1st, 2007 at 12:00 am
34jt

by the way the Orrin article on mlm legality by Abraham was published with copyright of 2004.

1. Why didn’t Orrin say something about Quixtar being illegal then? They obviously knew was is a legal vs illegal business? Does it really take 3 years to do something about it? Can you trust this dude?
ivan omaley Says:
September 1st, 2007 at 12:02 am
I bet BWW and world wide dream builders wish they were on the TEAM. WHY? Oh let me tell you. The TEAM affiliated IBO’s have been flooded for the past few days with FREE customers from Quixtar. Coincidence? I don’t think so. They should have given the FREE (but seem to be fake) customers to an organization that wanted them. I wonder how they are planning on producing real evidence that the customers marked (PRIVATE) are real? Wow, what a shady organization. I’m so disappointed. It seems like Dick Devos’ chances at the Governors seat is diminishing with the integrity of the organization (Amway/Quixtar), that will do these types of practices against an organization that just wants to go and be left alone. The question is, do the customers get to go too? Probably not, that’s okay, if we didn’t earn them, we don’t want them. We only want what we’ve earned. The funny thing is, right after Burrelli called the IBO’s property of Quixtar, he said the funniest thing. The comment if I can keep myself from laughing to hard was, “They have built their organization off from the GOOD(?) name of Quixtar”. Ha, what a joke. The court room erupted with laughter in Kent County. We’ve had to hide our affiliation up unto the last moment of signatures on the paperwork, just to get people in the business. Let’s face it, no one wants to be in Amway. No one that was in it before wanted to be in, that’s why the board made them change their name to begin with. Good luck with the new SA 4400 in a few days. We should have all seen coming. Steve VanAndel at Acheivers last year said that we should be PROUD of the Amway name and it’s heritage. He is right in one regards, “It’s a great prace to be From”.
Tex Says:
September 1st, 2007 at 12:12 am
rico #27,

I agree.

Let’s all pick a rule we don’t want to follow and tell Quixtar/Amway which one doesn’t apply to us. In fact, you can change the rule you don’t want to follow once per quarter, just to be able you say you have an “independent” business.

While we’re at it, let’s all pick one federal, state, and local law we don’t want to follow and notify the authorities which one we picked, so they don’t arrest us when we exercise our “freedom”. After all, this is a free country, right?
jthompson Says:
September 1st, 2007 at 12:35 am
http://orrin-woodward.joeuser.com/index.asp?c=1

Orrin quotes Jim Rohn.

Jim was my first mentor (after “Arnold” but that was during bodybuilding days)

Jim is an amazing teacher. He will teach from the bible without you even knowing it.

One of Jims #1 students was TOny Robbins, who worked for Jim promoting his seminars, until Tony got so good people wanted to hear him speak! Tony is no longer my primary/active mentor… but he teaches a lot about human behavior and the 6 human needs…. its fun to use what Tony taught me in evaluating what is going on in TEAM vs. Quxitar

I look forward to be at an upcoming TEAM meeting in North Texas.
the TEAM ibos are very kind positive people for the most part.
I am curious to learn how team meetings are similar and different from other ibos.

Its a challenge to speak before a room full of new prospects.. so i look foward to being an enthusiastic guest for the speaker.

I am curious to find out how right and wrong i am in my thoughts about the TEAM system.
I look forward to sharing with you what i find out.
Steve Says:
September 1st, 2007 at 12:45 am
Tex #28,
Team does use the SA-4400 in their first night material. Specifically they use a TEAM focused SA-4400 created by Quixtar…just one of many examples proving Quixtar approved of Team Depth building practices.
scooter Says:
September 1st, 2007 at 12:56 am
Tex:

Looks like you sure spend a lot of time on this blog, get a life.

To all:

People with integrity expect to be believed, and when they are not they let time prove them right.

Lets wait ten years and see who is the winner in this dispute.

Quixtar has forgotten what makes them who they are, the IBO. We are not employees, this is not a communitst country, and if you give people a choice of following people with integrity, TEAM wins, game over.
Tex Says:
September 1st, 2007 at 10:20 am
Tex #30,

(Yes, I know. I’m talking to myself)

Here’s a followup idea: The rule you pick to not follow could be the one you have already broken or the one you intend to break.

After all, this would simply be duplicating our “leader”, Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward.

And if Quixtar doesn’t like it, sue them. It’s the Am(erican) way.
Steve in Texas Says:
September 1st, 2007 at 11:46 am
Hey Tex and Jthompson,

I see all your posts against Orrin and Chris as well as your responses to absolutely everybody elses posts that are slanted toward the TEAM point of view and I cant help but ask myself why?

You said your not part of TEAM and your not paid by Quixtar/Amway/Alticor. So then, if your not part of Team and not paid by Quixtar, then how in the world does this situation even affect you? Furthermore, why does it bring out such vitriol? It makes no sense.

I have tried hard to figure it out. I thought maybe y’all were just defenders of corporate giants as a matter of principle, sorta like a concerned conservatives. But that makes no sense either, because you can’t be a concerned conservative and fighting against free enterprise unless of course you’re bi-polar… (intended as a joke not a personal attack)

Then I thought maybe its just a hobby? But certainly you possess far to much intelect to waste your time at a computer attacking so many other people your don’t even know. There has to be a reason.

Then it dawned on me… maybe your not being paid by Q/A/A but have been hired by some third party. Then you could legitimately say that your not paid by Q/A. Kinda like Bill Clinton claiming that certain acts with Monica weren’t really sexual acts. Unfortunately for y’all as well as Clintons, most people can see right through that.

Well if thats it, then enjoy your work, but at least let people know the truth behind your situation. Bill Clinton was one of the best politicians ever, but will go down as one of the worst presidents because of his lack of character and the fact that he tried to spin his way out of everything. Y’all are obviously no dummies, (maybe misinformed) so why not learn from his mistake.

Then again there might be another alternative. Maybe I have it all wrong and you have no life and you live to sit on the computer and denounce everything and everyone with half truths and innuendo. Yoe see yourselves sorta like a Cyber Micheal Moores, hopefully skinnier and better dressed. If thats the case… I am confident that there a Dungeons and Dragons tournament going on somewhere on the internet that desperately needs you two? Why don’t you guys go play and leave the business discussions to the adults who are actually affected by all this. Good Luck and May the Force be with you.
rico Says:
September 1st, 2007 at 1:59 pm
There is a positive spin to this whole thing. Resolution will come.

(1) Many TEAM IBO’s will move to or start a company that will give them the independence they want. They may have to sit it out for 6 months. Others TEAM IBOs will decide to stay with Amway.

(2)That means that Amway, whenever it becomes that, will have gotten rid of the thorns in their side and will have the more compliant IBOs still with them. They can go through another round of rule-tightening to make sure this doesn’t happen again. And, their IBOs can go about building their businesses.

(3.)There will probably be some IBOs on both sides of the conflict that will decide this is not an atmoshpere they wish to promote and will begin looking to MarketAmerica, Arbonne, or something else to invest their time, money, and relationships in. (That’s already happening with my downline.)

(4) And then their will be the casualties of war who will quit suddenly or fade away. Amoung them will be the walking wounded who spend the rest of their days, making negative comments about the TEAM, Amway, or network marketing.

These things all seem inevitable at this point. The best thing is to settle quickly at this point. Negotiate a plan that lets us all determine our future. Drop all lawsuits, change the waiting period to 4 months instead of 6. Everybody loses a little, wins a little, and we can get on with our lives and maybe our businesses, if we so choose.

Maybe it’s time for all of us bloggers to start coming up with solutions, intead of trying to prove other bloggers wrong. (I’m as guilty of that as the next person.)

What would you settle for, to be able to get back to business and get this out of the public media?

After a while, parents have to lay aside trying to prove they are right, and have to do what is right for the kids.

Both sides are losing IBOs in this. My dittos that kick in on the 1st of the month are less than 20% of what they usually are.

Do we want to be right or do we want get on with our lives? The longer it takes, the more people are likely to choose options 3 or 4?

The lawyers can’t find a solution, let suggest one.
djm Says:
September 1st, 2007 at 8:18 pm
jthompson #34
didn’t you read the Ron Simmons letter?
NG Says:
September 1st, 2007 at 8:44 pm
#18 Mkay: Where are you getting your information?
SAK Says:
September 1st, 2007 at 10:54 pm
TEX,
Have you been to http://crazyfunwildworld.blogspot.com/ I suggest you try it, these are pretty good comments, both sides are being given fair opportunity. YOU might learn something, instead of giving YOUR OPINION all the time, very tired of your “thoughts”. Myself and most others don’t even bother to read your bloggs any more, just scroll past them. Same old crap different blogg.
Tex Says:
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:24 am
RH,

The point is you never should have answered simply “no” to the “Is this Amway?” question for the past several years. You should have explained Quixtar and Amway are very closely related and explained the differences. Chances are your upline didn’t like to explain this, just like they don’t like to explain where most of their profit comes from.

So, now you have to talk to your current IBO’s (as if most of them don’t know already) and start being truthful with your prospects. Pretty simple stuff. Get over it.

IBO-in-PA #31,

Lighten up.

Brad #32,

This partial truth distorts the truth that the typical Emeralds and above (and for TEAM, apparently Platinum and above) make most of their money from tools, not Quixtar. A partial truth is a full lie, especially regarding such a critical issue as tool profit is.
Tex Says:
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:25 am
jthompson #33,

I think the point of that article is the TEAM tool business is not an MLM.
Tex Says:
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:37 am
jthompson #34,

You can’t trust Orrin “Rose Ruiz” Woodward.

However, his suit states the illegal aspect of Quixtar developed over the years, as product prices became too high, he had no reason to accuse them of being illegal prior to the lawsuit, and stated he was trying to work with Quixtar prior to the lawsuit to lower prices.

But you still can’t trust him.

ivan #35,

How do you know the customer information you read about is true? Do the other groups you mentioned have much presence where there are a lot of TEAM Platinums with customers calling in? If not, that is why your phone isn’t ringing. You’re right about the “good name” part, and all upline who make most of their profit from tools and aren’t honest about this fact damaged the name.

Steve #38,

Quixtar approved the words on the paper. It was the practices in the field they said were being done wrong.

scooter #39,

Get a non-Orrin life.
YankeeIBO Says:
September 2nd, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Steve in Texas, #41–

Steve, this DOES concern ALL OF US!! There is not a single North American IBO whose business is not being affected by this whole situation. Just like us, we know there are many TEAM IBO’s who did not ask for this, or want this, either. Right now, we are all stewing in the same pot.

The fact that you think Tex is a third-party hire would be really funny if it wasn’t indicative of how little you really know. Not to mention that your accusation reminds me of my ex–who was having an affair and accused me of cheating on him so he could feel better about what he was doing. Look to your own 3rd party–Ashton and Partners–who is running the PR/spin machine for the TEAM organization from the freetheibo website. If you find yourself following instructions given to you from that site, you are being used as a pawn in someone else’s game. Open your eyes and do some research on the net, like the Opportunity Zone, thetruthaboutamway.com, and other places you will find in your travels, there. This is not just about you, or TEAM–there is a lot more going on that you should make yourself aware of.

Tex is one of those things. His purpose over the last couple years has been to raise the awareness of current and prospective IBO’S to the dangers of buying into the system BSM plans without at least entertaining the possibility that your upline may be more interested in the profit they can pull from your pockets, than in making YOU profitable in the quickest possible way. He fully supports the need for training and support materials to be successful in this business–as it is a different business model than most–but you have to make sure that what you are getting is both reasonably priced and will get you where you want to go.

Many IBO’s have been so indoctrinated by their own BSM, that they can’t or don’t want to see this as a possibility–are you one of them? (this last is not personally directed at Steve, but to all who read it)

If you have the money to blow and don’t care if you are getting value for your dollar (business and profit value–you can get self-improvement material anywhere), then you are not Tex’s audience, and don’t listen. He is fighting the fight that needs to be fought to remove the last of the negative garbage from this business that has been weighing it down for over 20 years–join him or step aside, don’t get in his way!!

Is he abrasive and Pig-headed and sometimes a bit over-the-top? Yes. But he is fighting for the little guy, and the Big Guys at the top aren’t happy about it–which may tend to make him a little trigger-happy at times. He also gives in to frustration when we just spout the system line, instead of taking an objective look at the situation, and trying to understand what he is really saying.

Tex believes in this company and the dream, with the same depth and tenacity that he believes in the USA and what it stands for. Try learning something from those who state an opposing view, rather than just trying to prove yourself right–everyone has what they believe to be legitimate reasons for thinking the things they do……..
chris Says:
September 2nd, 2007 at 5:02 pm
where is the PDF…
NG Says:
September 2nd, 2007 at 6:44 pm
#41 Steve in Texas - well said!
jthompson Says:
September 2nd, 2007 at 9:21 pm
46steveintexas,
Nope - not paid by anyone - but i am open to getting paid! Email me!

(btw i have read every major document/information that freetheibo.com and its forum has.)
Tex Says:
September 2nd, 2007 at 11:47 pm
Steve in Texas #41,

I’m slanted against Orrin and Chris because they break rules. If you have a problem with that, I have a problem with you as well.

I’m an IBO who feels Quixtar took the right action against Orrin and Co., and there is much more work to do with many other tool companies who are “shy” about releasing information regarding the level of tool profit compared to Quixtar income. This situation affects all IBO’s, in that it gives the business a poor reputation.

The “vitriol” is in response to literally millions of Distributors/IBO’s losing hundreds of millions, perhaps billions of dollars for several decades to tool profiteers, and NOBODY taking a stand for us, including the corp and upline.

Unfortunately for you, NOBODY is paying me to report the truth and demand full disclosure of more of the same truth.

Sometimes people do the right thing because it is the right thing to do, and all of your “theories” are pure bunk.

rico # 42,

Here’s my solution. Tie Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward for so long, make him spend so much money, that he’ll wish he never heard of Amway or Quixtar. Change whatever silly stance the corp has regarding not allowing disclosure of tool profits, then REQUIRE tool profits to be disclosed to prospects and IBO’s. That will fix most of the issues facing this business, and far more effectively than all the other cosmetic fixes put together.

SAK #45,

I checked it out. I wasn’t impressed by the fantasy I found.
Mojoman Says:
September 3rd, 2007 at 1:07 am
Just a quick comment. Before everybody slanders everybody else’s side, please put some thought into it. Please make logical points instead of emotional ones about “who is better.” The reason Orrin and Chris haven’t put a stop to this earlier is because the business was not changing as radically as it is about to within the next year or so. Amway is about to change a lot, there have been a lot of things hidden from even the IBOA board. I’m not saying who is right or who is wrong, but wouldn’t everybody agree that when you change things up so much in something so personal to so many of us, that somebody isn’t going to be happy? I for one, am not happy that I’ve been telling people that Quixtar is a sister company of Alticor, and that Quixtar is Alticor’s new image. The reason I’ve had to tell people this is because people don’t like the Amway name, and don’t want to be associated with it whether it is a good business or not. The image is there… Now what I’ve been telling people about Quixtar makes me look like an idiot. I have well over 100 people in my organizations, and almost all of them were happy they were an IBO of Quixtar instead of Amway. Now I have to tell them that Quixtar is being dissolved back into Amway… Maybe good for the corporation, but I don’t like the heat I’ve already heard from my teams.

Make sense?
Eric Vanlandingham Says:
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:03 am
pinger,

TEAM wouldn’t exist without Quixtar/Amway there
are many organizations that believe that they could go someplace else because of the “system” that they have in place to help, train, and motivate individuals what people forget is that Amway gave ordinary individuals the opportunity to build an organization when Amway purchased Nutrilite 50 years ago.
CT Says:
September 3rd, 2007 at 6:12 pm
Tex,

You have been bashing Orrin this whole time. Maybe you either forgot or are trying to divert everyones attention from the fact that Orrin is only one of the people on the lawsuit. You’ve got Chuck, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Billy Florence, and now Newton has just joined team. These are a good portion of the board. You can fool some people all the time. You can fool some people sometimes.
But you can’t fool all the people all the time. These guys come from different teams and are aware of what is going on and wouldn’t hook up with team without a thorough investigation of the facts. Most of these guys have been around for 20 + years and know the rules very well as well as the inner working of Quixtar. Up until now they have had an excellent relationship with quixtar and have been admired by so many other teams. If you question that just visit Greg Duncans site as well as Harteis and many others. They are full of their quotes. So Tex how long have you been on the board. I’m sorry Tex but your bad manners are only exceeded by your bad manners.
Tom Sims Says:
September 3rd, 2007 at 8:42 pm
When I joined Quixtar, I was told it was my business. This was from the company, not an IBO. I signed up online and soon discovered I had a wonderful support team and was inspired to build a business by people such as those you have just now dismissed and spoken of in such derogatory terms.

Rule 6.5 came along later and I received a note in my email one day recently saying that I could have no other businesses that Quixtar considered competitive.

That does not sound like my own business to me.

I was given a choice by a gracious and diplomatic representative and I chose to resign and assured her that I would continue to speak well of the company and recomend it to others in my writing, consulting, and speaking businesses.

I also held out the possibility that I would later reconnect with Quixtar and continue to use the fine products, especially from Nutrilite.

I can no longer adhere to those intentions in light of the way the company has dealt with these fine people and the news that is coming out about changes in company policies in relation to those actions.

It is not the business I once affiliated with.

I no longer regret my resignation.

It was a very good company and a good opportunity..
mex Says:
September 3rd, 2007 at 10:05 pm
jthompson…..want to be like ORRIN?
BUILD A GROUP OF 30,000 UP……BE A EDC WIHT RUBY FOUNDER OUTSIDE OF HIS 9 LEGS…..YOU GUYS JUST TALK TOO MUCH….TEAM….HONOR & RESPECT….
driven Says:
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:56 pm
Moderator~

ARE YOU GOING TO CONTINUE WITH LETTING TEX ABUSE THE PRIVLEDGE OF BLOGGING WITH ALL THE ELEMENTARY NAME CALLING? WHY WOULD YOU ALLOW HIM TO DO THIS WHEN IT IS CLEARLY AGAINST YOUR RULES OF BLOGGING? JUST WONDERING OR DO SOME GET SPECIAL PRIVILEGES SO SAY SOMEONE COMES ON WITH GREAT NICK NAMES FOR THE DEVOS’S AND VANANDELS WILL YOU ALLOW THAT?
Tex Says:
September 4th, 2007 at 12:03 am
YankeeIBO #49,

Thanks, you are on target.

Mojoman #54,

This only makes sense if you misrepresented what you told your IBO’s about the historical relationship between Amway and Quixtar. If you told the truth, there should be no problem. I think you will find there is much less concern about the Amway name than you think, and YOUR attitude and honesty will go a long way to being success during the transition. A much bigger problem is WHY the Amway or Quixtar names have a bad reputation, which is the complete distortion to the business model the tool profits have introduced.

CT #56,

I know ALL of the people you just mentioned made MUCH more money from their tool systems than Quixtar, and so have the rest of the Board that is still in place. I don’t show a tool profit business plan, do you? It’s called bait and switch. Your lack of making a point is exceeded only by your lack of making a point.

Tom #57,

Bub-bye.

mex #58,

I don’t want to be like Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward.
RH Says:
September 4th, 2007 at 12:56 am
Tex - #46

It does amaze me the amount of time you spend in these blogs. The moderator must appreciate how much time you take to comment back to everyone so he doesn’t have to.

Here is a link for ya…
http://amwayaustralia.blogspot.com/2007/09/amway-australia-new-zealand-a2k-is-now.html

where the article states… “Unlike in North America, where Quixtar was a whole new company, with literally thousands of “partner stores”,”

I don’t know what you did but I had to make a decision in early 2000 if I wanted to continue my Amway business or not. I was given that choice by Amway. My choice was to not have an Amway business and just have a Quixtar business or keep my Amway business. I choose to have a Quixtar business. I wanted off the broken down Amway train.

I didn’t need my upline to explain to me what it means when a company asks me if I want to continue a business or not. It was as you say… “pretty simple stuff”.

You really have an amazing amount of opinions and a sorely lacking amount of fact.
makingadifference Says:
September 4th, 2007 at 2:13 am
WHERE IS THE PDF? More importantly, what was the reason for not posting it over the weekend, because “haven’t had time” just don’t cut it. It’s like the post that left out the fact that the injunction in Texas was against Quixtar and that the arbitration would be independent of both parties. Or Mike Mohrs so called letter to DJ Poyfair. Do they really not think that we know both law firms talk to each other regularly? And that in spite of his comments that TEAM could not promote or sell functions or tools; without specifying that it affects only a small fraction of tools according to Judge Sullivan’s ruling (prospecting and plan materials). That’s not just misleading, that’s downright lying.

Does it bother anyone else that Q has yet to officially deny that just over 3% of sales go to non IBOs? On the pricing issue, that is the only thing that matters. For those who disagree how many IBOs do you know who “auto generate” volume from the same customer every month for at least a year? All of you folks saying the prices are okay are the same ones using “self report” to qualify for a bonus more consistently than you don’t.

Some on this site seem to think the real demon is tool profits. I couldn’t disagree more. It’s tool profits disclosure that’s lacking. Having a way to legitimately make enough money to replace a job and give security is a good thing, and hasn’t been done by any significant percentage of those reaching that goal through only the compensation plan, if in fact anyone has done it. And the reason tool profits aren’t disclosed? Q has threatened people like Orrin Woodward and Don Wilson who has tried to get the corporation to be transparent here for years with termination. According to Chuck Goetschel’s post, virtually all of the remaining board members have also wanted to disclose the tool bus. for years and are very unhappy with the upcoming changes. Some of them such as Bill Britt, and Fred Harteis have been sued for something that Q will not let them fix through disclosure. Look into the lawsuits and you will find that almost every former diamond who has left the bus. also said the same thing: Kenny Stewart, Brig Hart, Bo Short, Andy Andrews, and Bruce Anderson to name a few. There’s a lot of consistency there. And can anyone deny that 40 years later the only reason there is an Amway/Quixtar/Alitcor is because of these same tools?

Now why wouldn’t Q want to tell prospects about the best part of our business? The part that changes lives, gives better value than books bought in universities, as well as better value compared to other motivational and/or educational materials sold around the country (which I think is also a good value, ours just costs less and has a better track record of results). Where else can you attend a conference for an entire weekend for $90 or get a CD from someone with proven results for $7? Could it be that being transparent with higher profits from a $7 Cd than from $300 in product would expose the owners getting a full 1/3 of the profits? Could THAT be what they’re hiding? It certainly can’t be a concern over liability. Just look at how many lawsuits are currently pending against Q on this very issue and how many there have been in the last 30 years. The liability problem is already there AND COULD BE LARGELY SOLVED THROUGH TOTAL TRANSPARENCY but not without exposing the lack of profit from a product bus. doing a much greater amount of volume.

At least two people have asked the aticor media blog administrator about this issue with dead silence. Q hasn’t formerly put anything in writing denying the claim on the lawsuit that only 3.4% of sales are not consumed internally. Is there even one logical explanation anyone has for this? This would really help Qs image and standing with it’s IBOs in the field who are wondering about these allegations. Why the silence? For those of you who believe these allegations to be false (obviously I don’t), I suggest you call Qs legal department and ask them. Or even customer relations. Simply call and tell them you want to continue with Q but want to be sure of these allegations. For those who want to disagree don’t reply without first calling Q. Anyone?…Anyone?….
mkay Says:
September 4th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
#44 NG: My information is from a source close to the parent company. I started to ask questions after this circus started because the changes the corp is slated to make made no sense to me and my org. For instance the name change. Why go back to what is so hated and distrusted by the public? Because according to my source when going retail, it is much easier to do so under one parent name. And since Amway is entering the retail market overseas where the Amway name is accepted and trusted, they feel it is best to eventually be known only as Amway. They feel that by the time the core line is in Walmart stores in North America their reputation will be restored. And keep in mind that they need to faze this in over a two year period is because they need time to faze out all the IBO’s. Who needs IBO’s when your product is available on the corner. Hope this helps.
Piet Strydom Says:
September 4th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Makingadifference: The business opportunity is distributing Amway/Quixtar products. If the tool business is so good, why doesn’t any of the tool companies renounce their Q/A businesses, and solely market the tools?

Because the FTC would close them down before you could say pyramid. The BUSINESS is products, the tools is SUPPORT.

Q/A can not allow tool profits to be part of the marketing plan - because tool profit is not part of the marketing plan. The marketing plan is: move product, and get other people to help you move product.

Telling people to bury their product in the backyard, is blatantly illegal, and is an example of what happens when the tool business becomes more important than the products business.

I repeat - put the tool business on its own legs, and see how long it lasts. I’ve changed my opinion - it will collapse so fast, the FTC won’t have a chance to close it down.
jthompson Says:
September 4th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
58mex “so you want to be like Orrin”

no, here is what i would need to do be like Orrin

1. build my ego bigger than my Q business
2a - Hide the Quixtar name as long as possible from new prospects… make them think they are getting into TEAM, and Quixtar is just a supplier
2b Quit appreciating the opportunity that Quixtar/Amway gave me. Start to disrespect them.
3. Think that our group is the most successful mlm organization in the world of quixtar
4. realize that Quixtar is cleaning up its act and b/c i live on the Quixtar edge, this includes me, so i better do something fast.
5. plan a “negotiation” meeting with Quixtar by preparing a Lawsuit and threat of negative PR campaign against Quixtar…. that way if Quixtar says NO to me, I will make them wish they said yes to allowing me to break the 2year non-compete rule that has existed for years.
6. go into the meeting - present my 9point DO OR DIE offer to Quixtar… with my lawyer waiting in the parking lot with 47 page lawsuit and confidential iboai documents that I will make public…. all if Quixtar does not give me my way.
7. as soon as Quixtar doesn’t take my crap… hire ASHTON partners to (as their website says) “position information” to make TEAM look good and Quixtar look bad.
8. including starting freetheibo.com forum to propagate my message and foster loyalty of my downline. Banning all bloggers that gain too much influence or get TEAM ibos to question what I am telling them throught my people.
9. Accuse Quixtar of doing what i hired a PR firm to do - SPIN.
10. Be selfish, motivated by pride and greed.

but thank God, i am not like Orrin so i won’t do this.

jt
Conan_78 Says:
September 4th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
(administrator) 1: is it true that 3.4% of sales are not consumed internally? 2: Does Q stop IBOs from reporting tool profits? —————–CUT AND PAISE ————– we all need to lead with these questions until we get some answers.

Conan
Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
September 4th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
Folks: While the PDF is a’coming, you may be able to find it elsewhere.

Conan_78: Would this help?
SAK Says:
September 4th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
to jthompson:

So are you saying ALL the men (and women) that left on Aug 9 are all high and mighty “like Orrin” YOU have to remember, Randy, Chuck, Don and all the others left too, are you saying they all were brain washed by Orrin???? I think these men and women are very intelligent and have more inforation as to what is really going on behind Corp. doors, these men and women are quite the opposite of how you describe them. DO YOU EVEN PERSONALLY KNOW ORRIN…thought not.
Disappointed Says:
September 4th, 2007 at 11:27 pm
Wow - what a disappointment this all is. For me, (associated with TEAM), to think I have a choice. Either remain as an IBO; or hope that the TEAM founders have a viable alternative.

Let me ponder this:

If I were to remain as an IBO, I would have what?
1) An Amway “business” - which most of us know is a joke. The average person wants NOTHING to do with Amway! So, there goes the “business” building option. Now I’d be back to a money losing Hobby, trying to believe I could reach any of my dreams and goals. It really wouldn’t take much for Alticor to research how poor of an image Amway has in the real world.
2) I’d be associated with a “business” who makes formal statements like a spoiled child. And I’m supposed to be loyal to them - and “exude” that loyalty in such a manner that others want to join with me? HA HA The official communications have been an embarrassment to a lot of IBO’s, not just those associated with TEAM.
3) Products - some excellent, some good, some okay, and some poor. What’s so different in this qualification than any other “Brand” name? Some are good, others not so good. Yes, I’d definitely miss some products like XS, and Artistry, however I’m sure I’d survive. Most are priced out of their “fair market value”, even at wholesale cost. This really helps to maintain a steady customer base (said sarcastically).

Now, If I chose to terminate my business, I would have what?
1) An excellent Leadership Development Program - to develop a business in…..what?
2) Leadership that stands up for what they believe in, even though it may hurt their “bottom line dollar”.
3) Product - what product? We will have lost our only realistically marketable product, XS.

I certainly won’t “Show a Plan” at this point. Ethically, what business could I show someone signing up with? Quixtar or Amway or nothing?

In my humble opinion (an that of others), Alticor has made a few unwise decisions. Changing back to Amway could be one of the biggest. There was a reason for the name change to Quixtar, remember what that was? A new image perhaps? The other is posting blogs that demean others. What kind of business does that to their business associates? We’re not your children or your employees. This is supposed to be a business to make yourself and your life better - wow it’s done a lot for whoever is writing for you, hasn’t it?

How disappointing to be associated with an organization (Quixtar/Amway/Alticor) that runs like this one has lately.
makingadifference Says:
September 5th, 2007 at 6:08 am
Conan_78:

The above link does not directly answer your question. You may however be interested in the post at the IBO Rebellion blog titled Texas sized win for Team. You can read the court order issued yesterday by a Texas FEDERAL court there as well.
william Says:
September 5th, 2007 at 7:23 am
I’M VERY LOST ON WHAT GOING ON ONE MINUTE I HEARD THAT IT GOING BACK TO THE NAME AMWAY AND WE HAVE TO DO 500 PV A MONTH TO GET A CHECK AND SO MANY CUSTOMER ALSO I AVE BEEN TOLD BUT IBO AND NOT IBO ARE COST IS TO HIGH I CAN GET THAT SAME PRODUCTS FROM SAM’S CLUBS OR WAL MART FOR THE SAME PRICE SO CAN SOME ONE ANSWER FOR ME THANK U AND GOD BLESS US ALL WE SURE NEED IT
NG Says:
September 5th, 2007 at 9:04 am
#63 Mkay:

If what you’re saying is true, that would be against everything that Amway has stood for. But with all the negative stuff that I’ve seen from Amway lately, I wouldn’t be surprised if they did start selling the product in stores.
Thank you.
Deann Says:
September 5th, 2007 at 9:40 am
jthompson # 65
oh pul-l-l-leeeeee-ze !
In2Win Says:
September 5th, 2007 at 10:09 am
FACTS - LET’S LOOK AT THE FACTS WITH OUT ALL THE FLUFF AND BITTER COMMENTS.

-Quixtar has some good people in their organization.
-Team has some good people on their Team

-Quixtar want’s the best for organization
-Team want’s the best for their organization

-Quixtar does not want anything to do with Team
-Team does not want anything to do with Quixtar

-Quixtar believes products build the teams
-Team believes the educational training system builds the individual

-Quixtar wants to own/control the IBO with rules and regulations.
-Team wants to build the individual into leaders

-Quixtar wants to attack individuals in conflict
-Team wants to address the issus of the conflict.

-Quixtar wants to stay where they are and protect what they have.
-Team wants to be progressive and continue to improve themselves.

From what I can tell the facts show two very different organizations. Being in business for over 30 years it seems simple. When you have customers who no longer wish to associate with your organization, tell them thank you for your past business and wish them good luck. It is bad business to continue to make a public display so ugly that it affects your remaining business.
jthompson Says:
September 5th, 2007 at 11:22 am
73 Deann :)

hey but it got your attention didn’t it.

Seriously. Go to http://adatudes.opportunityzone.com/2007/09/04/Brief-Responds-to-Lawsuit.aspx#comments

Remind the blog from Dickie on the web or Quixtar summary of what happenned on Aug9 meeting. Both sides agree to the actual events/words that happenned. Then read Pastor Dickie letter on freetheibo.

Orrin may have past of integrity. Orrin may have future of integrity. But the present (Aug 9 and before/after) does not match.

Do you actually believe that Orrin believes Quixtar is an Illegal Pyramid?
When are you going to realize that the lawsuit/freetheibo was just Orrins backup plan to punch Quixtar in the face if they didn’t allow Orrin/Team to break the rules of non-compete that they have signed and agreed for the past 5 years?
jthompson Says:
September 5th, 2007 at 11:24 am
68/SAK

I am not writing about the other TEAM ibos that resigned/terminated. Orrin is the main authority within TEAM and the main Leader.

I have old tapes from the 80’s with Randy and Don…. i understand they connected with TEAM to expand their system… more meetings to send people to… bigger functions…. its hard to grow this business if you are part of a “small” IBO team/system.
jthompson Says:
September 5th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
analogy/summary of TEAM vs QUIXTAR:

a Women in High School is caught cheating on Final Exam (breaks student rules of conduct). Her math teacher catches her about to expell her from school and fail her. She decides to hand out a (prepared) bogus Sexual Harassment lawsuit before the Teacher can make the news public. All attention is diverted from the student trying to be exempt from the rules of conduct that she agreed upon in the student honor code, instead teacher has to defend himself against TROs, lawsuits, etc… attempting to ruin his career forver.
All could have been prevented if She/Student would just follow the rules or drop out of the school quietly. NO. Instead she wants to take all the students with her… lieing about the teachers and school…..

same thing.
jthompson Says:
September 5th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Update from Orrin’s/Ashton’s freetheibo.com

This is front page in big red colors

“RECENT NEWS:
Quixtar Fails to Refute Allegations That It Operates an an Illegal Pyramid Scheme
Suggests “admission of guilt” by silence”

Ok jthompson has purposely acted childish in some of his blogs but has not been able to stay competitive with freetheibo website by TEAM.

This reminds me of elementary school “I called Johnny a meanie head and he didn’t say anything back so it must be true!!!!”

Plus i like how TEAM files like 15 TROs, lawsuits,complaints, and accusations (throw a lot of mud on the wall and see what sticks) and then jumps on Quixtar for not answering their accusations.
Jerad Smith Says:
September 5th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
JT#77,
The difference is that we were never breaking any rules of conduct.

Ever.
Jim Says:
September 6th, 2007 at 12:27 am
One More week???????
Bridgett Says:
September 6th, 2007 at 1:04 am
#56 CT said, “…just visit Greg Duncans site”

Would you be so kind to post a link, or give a web address to GD’s site.

Thanks!
Bridgett Says:
September 6th, 2007 at 1:24 am
#63 Mkay and
#72 NG

Do you think the Nutrilite line or Artistry line are Wal-Mart kinds of products?

How about the new Simply Nutrilite products?
http://simplynutrilite.quixtar.com/Products/Default.aspx

IMHO I’d say Whole Foods Market (the most expensive grocery store on the planet) is the place you’d find your “amway” products.
http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/

Perhaps the Whole Foods shopper is your audience (both as a customer AND a business owner), not Wal-Mart.

If we can be competitive with Whole Foods, then we are in business. And most of the time, we are.

Just a thought.
makingadifference Says:
September 6th, 2007 at 4:23 am
JThompson #75:

Are you kidding me? You actually believe the account given by Qs attornys over the postings of Chuck Goetschel, Bill Newton, and Ron Simmons? Have you seen Ron Simmons latest post? Here’s a clue for you, I was there personally with one of the fine folks who resigned and was forced to file the lawsuit, well after the published IBOAI statement was published; when several of these folks called and expressed that they were praying TEAM can prevail and the door can be opened for them as well. Now with restraining orders in place (which you claim means nothing) I obviously can’t name names, but spin it any way you want it what I just told you I personally witnessed. I assure you you would be shocked at who some of these are. All you have to do is read Qs answer to preliminary injunction filed in California Sept. 4th, and you can clearly see in those 26 pages they are desperate. Not a word about 3.4%. That number is the only thing that matters on the 12th and the ensuing weeks (probably not months).
makingadifference Says:
September 6th, 2007 at 4:42 am
Jthompson:

Page 11 that you refer to conveniently leaves out the part that Orrins attorney told Mike Mohr he had papers in his pocket where both parties would agree to do nothing for 24 hours, Mike Mohr said he would read it, had another meeting to go to and would call in an hour (see Ron Simmons post and remember that he has an ongoing federal case in Texas NOT JUST A TRO, and common sense would tell you he would never perjure himself under these circumstances). Orrin and the others just wanted the others to have an open dialog, and Q refused, not the other way around. The lawsuit was only filed when three hours went by and Mike Mohr wouldn’t return phone calls. Of course it was prepared well in advance, because Q had made it clear by then it may be necessary (see Ron’s posts as well as Chuck Goetschels). The last thing Orrin or any of the resigning members wanted to do was take legal action, and what Pastor Dickie wrote about this is exactly right.

And how about Mike Mohrs post on this very blog where he said Judge Sullivan’s ruling meant IBOs could not promote or sell TEAM functions when ruling specificly states TEAM could attend functions as long as they didn’t compete. A federal judge in Washington has already ruled (ever heard of precedent?), that BSMs and training system organizations ARE NOT competing mlms, and do not compete with the parent mlm. And Mike Mohr knows this. In my opinion that goes well beyond just misleading. My grandmother would have called it lying.
jthompson Says:
September 6th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
lawsuit by Team,

No one is forced to file a Lawsuit. TEAM/Orrin has signed/agreed for 4 consecutive years a document that states the 2yr non-compete.

Go try to join another mlm and take Quixtar ibos with you… and see what happens.

EXAMPLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON

I build TEAM business. I sign TEAMs 1yr non-compete contract. I decide to do my own thing and take TEAM ibos with me. TEAM/Orrin do not let me, so I file lawsuit claiming TEAM is an illegal pyramid b/c of pricing (prices are twice the amount for books as amazon.com).
jthompson Says:
September 6th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
TEAM is an amazing duplication system founded by Orrin Woodward.

if TEAM lasts (i believe chances are 99% that they will be history/defeated and not allowed to break non-compete contracts.)

but if TEAM did last… Orrin has laid out a Pathway To Power for his downline.

I wonder how many of his downline will file a Lawsuit against TEAM to break teams non-compete in the future? If TEAM got rid of their non-compete, it will be fun watching ibos raid the TEAM downline.

Either way, TEAM is doomed for failure!
jthompson Says:
September 6th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
btw,

Remember you new bloggers…. i was the #1 blogger on freetheibo forum… with 80 posts (5% of total). I read every major document and letter. Since then i have continued to read major writings/propaganda from TEAM.
I have read the lawsuits and TROs. I am up to date.

I am one of the most neutral bloggers on the internet about Amway, why?
- I have been an IBO. I am not an IBO now.
- I have been to 25 functions from multiple LOS
- I am FOR teams/tools/personaldevelopment
- I have the same God, Country, Family… values as team ibos
- I HAVE ZERO FINANCIAL INCENTIVE TO BE FOR ANYONE. I may or may not become an Amway IBO again.
- I have been around other mlms before amway.
- I have been around multi-millionaires since age 18
- My dad is the head trainer of a billion dollar software company
- I have worked in an industry (non-mlm) that is similar to Amway/IBO structure
- I believe in mentorship like TEAM does. But i know people are not perfect.
- I have dreams and goals.

If you have blinders over your eyes and you are following someone passionately that is not named Jesus, you are in for a rude awakening.
Paul said, “Follow me AS I follow Christ”
ibofightback Says:
September 6th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
makingadifference - why is “3.4%” the only thing that matters when the FTC has very clearly stated that the “level of internal consumption” doesn’t matter in determining if something is a pyramid, and that “internal consumption” also may count as a retail sale for their purposes?

Why is “3.4%” the only thing that matters when 3.4% means almost $50,000,000 worth of direct evidence that there IS a market for the products and you CAN retail them at full price to outside customers if you make the effort?

I happened to get a report of what happened on the 9th of August shortly after it happened. I broke the story on my website. And what I heard - and I believe this was not from the corp - was exactly what the lawsuit says. Woodward and Brady threatened a PR war unless they and their downline were released, and they had a lawsuit ready to back up that threat. Some people would call that attempted blackmail. The last few weeks have been 100% consistent with that account. Accusing Quixtar of being an illegal pyramid, multiple TROs in multiple states, websites run by a PR firm, press releases, etc etc. All are consistent with making good on the threat.

Why didn’t Woodward and Brady simply claim that Quixtar had substantially changed the terms of the contract with the name change to Amway and have it judged null and void? If they’d been successful they’d be free to start their competitor MLM immediately. Anyone else who wanted to join the suit could go too.

Instead we have a PR war that is slandering millions of IBOs around the world with baseless accusations that we are doing what TEAM IBOs apparently did. TEAM is claiming in it’s lawsuit that IBOs like myself are buying products because we are “forced” to. TEAM is claiming in it’s lawsuit that IBOs like myself are not retailing products to non-IBO customers. TEAM is claiming that IBOs like myself are enticing people to join an illegal business. And what’s more, TEAM is claiming I’m too stupid to be aware of it.

TEAM is wrong on all counts. *I* buy the products cause I like them and want them. *I* sell the products to customers at a profit. *I* run my business like a business and *I* know exactly what I’m doing and why I’m doing it.

If you want to go to a court and say “I was breaking Quixtar rules and running an illegal pyramid - arrest me”, well go for it, you have my support. But stop accusing me and tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, of IBOs like me of doing what you did. It’s the antithesis of ethical.
Choking on a name change Says:
September 6th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
This whole mess is ridiculous! Quixtar obviously wants to eliminate the IBO business and sell through giant retailers!!! $22 SHAMPOO WILL BE A REAL HIT AT WALMART! Maybe they can hang a sign overhead that says “premium product pricing”??
Bridgett Says:
September 6th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
#84 makingadifference said, “BSMs and training system organizations ARE NOT competing mlms, and do not compete with the parent mlm.”

Response: The non-complete clause/rule includes ALL direct selling/mlms. It does NOT matter the product line.

This is why the whole BSM business is messed up, IF YOU SET IT UP LIKE AN MLM. And my understanding is that the TEAM’s BSM business IS set up like an MLM.

That’s the problem.

People are focusing on the (b) part of the rule. But look at the (a) part:

6.5.1. For purposes of this Rule 6.5., “Compete” means to own, manage, operate, consult for, be employed by, or participate as an independent distributor in (a) any other direct sales program using a multilevel or “network” marketing structure, or (b) any other enterprise that markets, through independent distributors, products or services functionally interchangeable with those offered or marketed by the Corporation.
josh Says:
September 6th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
Is quixtar/amway really going into retail stores?
Kevin Says:
September 7th, 2007 at 12:23 am
I write this to those who have issues with the tool profits, and believe the Team organization is as guilty as anybody in non-disclosure.

As a Team ibo, I’ve had a fair understanding of the tool profits and profit sharing plan since day one. The Team has been consistently transparent to this aspect of the business and has even made efforts with the corporation to change their policies toward this information.

To those of you who read the criticisms concerning tool profits, or believe the Dateline spot applies to all organizations affiliated with Q/A, I enourage you to get the facts. You’ll feel much better.
Drew Says:
September 7th, 2007 at 9:45 am
Bridget,

The point is not to be competitive with JUST the top of the line products (you mentioned wholefoodsmarket), the point is to be competitive with the ENTIRE market. When we can cut prices to at or below Wal-Mart’s, we will go mainstream. Q isn’t willing to do that, and it is keeping volume from flowing to anybody except IBO’s.

Wholefoodsmarket is not a place I’d shop at because I can get my stuff (high quality stuff) at my local Meijer. Why would I shop at wholefoodsmarket when I’m more concerned about my cash than I am about the best meat in the world? This is the thinking process almost everybody we talk to goes through. Why would we buy through this business if it’s more expensive than the local store for the EXACT same products by the way!? Try to find a store that sells Raisin Bran for as much as Q does! Add shipping on top of that, and that is NOT even close to competitive. I also site Q’s poor quality deoderant. I could go on and on… So, why would a person buy through us? Also, why would you join a business with products that don’t compete with the majority of the market place. What is everybody’s problem with having some of these awesome products (like SA8), but also having some other great PRICED products. This would make Q (excuse me, they are becoming Amway now), the best business in the world! Why is everybody on Q’s side opposed to that? Why can’t we have both!? Lol… OK, I’m done ranting now. Cheers!

Oh, one more thing, can anybody confirm or deny that Amway is going to do business with Wal-Mart now? I keep hearing that all over the place.
jthompson Says:
September 7th, 2007 at 10:08 am
TEAM and Orrin (those in authority) are embarassing their names with a PR war against Quixtar. This PR war is one of the few promises that TEAM has kept, making due on their threat/blackmail.

http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/index.php/content/view/6772/90/lang,en/

The sad part is that Orrin/TEAM is hiding out like Osama Bin Laden, and using his fanatical followers to do his dirty work of PR slandering.
jthompson Says:
September 7th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
91josh - go to www.thetruthaboutamway.com and click on “myths” and I will get the moderator to expand this list to cover some of the new ones that TEAM has added.

Make a list of the myths/questions and ask your Quixtar Sales Advisor.
jthompson Says:
September 7th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
93drew,

You build your own 6billion American Super Success Story and then you can tell them that they are failing.

Walmart and Quixtar are not competitors - they are playing different sports/industries/games.

TEAM ibos have obviously never been educated about Amway products, about Amway Corp, and about the business.
Bridgett Says:
September 7th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
#93 Drew,

1) I shop at Whole Foods Market.

2) I’m pleased as punch that I have access to high-quality products such as Nutrilte and Artistry.

3) Considering that WFM did $5.6 BILLION dollars in sales last year, we can safely say that others are shopping there too. Go talk to THOSE people about the products and/or about the business opportunity.

4) Aliticor/Amway/Quixtar will never be mainstream. Just like being a millionaire will never be mainstream.

5) We offer over 1,000 products. Find the ones that work for you.

–Nutrilte Daily at 12.5 cents a day, an alternative to Double X;
–Body Blends at $8.50 and $10, an alternative to Artistry.
–LOC products, always less expensive than the competitors (b/c we add our own water, which cuts down on the extraordinary shipping costs),
–New Simply Nutrilite’s Twist Tubes. Add your own water and pay 55 cents rather than $1.25 for a Sports Drink.

And the list goes on, and on, and on.

6) If you don’t find what you like, THEN DON’T BUY IT. If enough people don’t buy the things that they don’t find any/enough value in, then the product will be discontinued, ala XS Protein Pudding.

7) Alticor/Amway/Quixtar’s intention is never to be like Wal-Mart.
http://adatudes.opportunityzone.com/2007/08/31/Not-WalMart-and-Never-Want-to-Be.aspx
Go join Avon if that’s what you are looking for.

Good luck to you in whatever endeavor you choose to partake.
Jerad Smith Says:
September 7th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
JT#77,

Feel free to post any rules of conduct that TEAM has broken. Also, feel free to give examples of this smear campaign you claim that TEAM is doing. Outside of the lawsuit, which by nature can’t really be complementary, TEAM has not done a huge PR junket. Q* has.

But I defy you to show where TEAM has been overly critical or sarcastic…in or out of court. We certainly can see that kind of mudslinging by Q*.
jthompson Says:
September 7th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
88 - PR Campaign,

“I happened to get a report of what happened on the 9th of August shortly after it happened. I broke the story on my website. And what I heard - and I believe this was not from the corp - was exactly what the lawsuit says. Woodward and Brady threatened a PR war unless they and their downline were released, and they had a lawsuit ready to back up that threat. Some people would call that attempted blackmail. The last few weeks have been 100% consistent with that account. Accusing Quixtar of being an illegal pyramid, multiple TROs in multiple states, websites run by a PR firm, press releases, etc etc. All are consistent with making good on the threat.”

This is what I thought when i first read the TEAM Lawsuit on their website around Aug15. I laughed when i read the lawsuit b/c it seemed so unprofessional… it was written to be understandable as Negative Quixtar info, it was not written to win a case… at least i hope not, if so they need a new lawyer.
ex: quoting emails sent to quixtar that didn’t even relate to the lawsuit issue
jthompson Says:
September 7th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
98 Jerad,

example of rule of conduct broken - (the biggest being the one they are trying to break, get out of a noncompete they signed)
Rule # 4.14, 4.14.1, 4.27, 4.8, 6.5, 6.53 among others. These are rules Orrin/others signed and agreed upon.

“outside a lawsuit”…… not a good way to start a sentence stating TEAM has not done negative PR against Quixtar.
- web sites
- web forum
- web blogs
- tv stations
- web blogging on Q sites
- lawsuits
- TROs

TEAM could have kept everything quiet, not hire a PR firm, not post everything online, etc….
jthompson Says:
September 7th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
93/97 - Whole Foods Market; Quixtar; Pricing

Drew/Bridgett,

I worked for Whole Foods Market in 1999-2000 when i was 19-20 years age.

The Price is SIGNIFICANTLY higher at regular grocery stores than natural health stores like Whole Foods.
The cost of eating inorganic, processed, preservative filled, artificial, and cheap quality foods is Premature DEATH.

If you don’t eat natural healthy foods now… you will PAY for it later with medical bills, drugs, doctors, etc… and the costs are OUTRAGEOUS.

Quixtar is like a whole foods market; Walmart is like a Dollar Grocery Store.

Don’t compare POOR QUALITY PRODUCT prices w/ HIGH QUALITY PRODUCT prices.

besides a long, energetic, and dis-ease free life… eat natural health foods makes your skin clear and colorful, and makes you look good!

Go to discount store, buy your rommen noodles, and enjoy ugliness

do a google search on words like “natural foods, raw, organic, acid/alkaline, etc…”

Read books by Jack Lalanne, Dr. Robert Young, Paul Bragg, Dr. Don Colbert, Dr. Kellogg, Dr. Tildin, Jordan Rubin, etc…

(now i don’t support some of the political views of WFM….)
jthompson Says:
September 7th, 2007 at 6:04 pm
Criticism vs Advice

“Who should i listen to?”

One of the primary differences btwn a critic and friendly advice is… that a critic has no solution, only talks problems.

Orrin Woodward, and TEAM ibos can criticize Amway right now…. but truth is they have no alternative. What other mlm do they recommend over Amway? What is better?

TEAM loves Walmart but Walmart is not an mlm.

TEAM has not build a 6 billion dollar networking company with 50 year track record or longer with Nutrilite.

TEAM has not had its leaders elected TWICE to be Chairman of the United States Chamber of Commerce.

If you listen to TEAM, what will you gain but a new habit of complaining.

TEAM is not an independent business. The only TEAM customers are Quixtar IBOS.

Without Amway, TEAM is NOTHING! NOTHING! Nada!
jthompson Says:
September 7th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
NON-COMPETES

Why not void it?

1. doesn’t TEAM have a 1yr non-compete? If so its totally hypocritical of TEAM to want to void Amways non-compete.
2. B/c (judging by observation from Aug10 to current) TEAM is a System of Manipulation. I don’t want TEAM leaders anywhere close to my friends in Amway/Quixtar business. Orrin and others will lie and do anything to get their way, and if you don’t let them walk all over you, they will file unlimited lawsuits and try to ruin your reputaion.
3. Bo Short and Team in Focus Experience (My first function (not ibo yet) in 2001 was at the first ever TIF function in Nashville). If you don’t know the story, they failed, Bo Short then goes on Dateline and internet to promote his new mlm (which failed) and trys to raid Quixtar of its IBO army.
4. Orrin, Florence, Wilson, etc… all the TEAM Leaders… they have SIGNED and AGREED (w/o complaint) with the non-compete rules in 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007.
5. the LOS - read the quixtar docs for more info. B/c of Quixtars computers and systems they have developed for years, TEAM has access to information that would create unfair competition from another mlm
6. You can’t let a bullie push you around and allow him to break the rules b/c of threats of non-stop PR campaign
7. b/c if TEAM is allowed to break the rules via Leverage of Lawsuits and PR slander…. then other IBOs will follow in their footsteps of unethical childish behaviour… and ruin the business

JT - very neutral observer
I am not an ibo
I have been an ibo & at 25+ functions
I have built relationships with many diamonds
I DO believe in personal development like TEAM does.
I have experience with other mlm companies and have read over 20 books on mlm by age 19 (inspired by my moms mlm business w/ Mark Victor Hansen)
I have zero financial incentive to support any side.
Jerad Smith Says:
September 7th, 2007 at 9:30 pm
JT#100,
TEAM has not broken any of those rules of conduct. What makes anybody think they have outside of Q* false accusations? None. What evidence do they have? None. How do I know? Because they are making these claims about me! I would certainly know if I was guilty!

Sure, Tex seems to think that he has some sort of first hand knowledge about this. But the two things that I haven’t seem at all the meetings I’ve been to is…

1) The rule violations Tex claims to have reported.

2) Tex.

And you also have a very loose definition of a PR smear campaign. The TRO’s were needed to protect my business from Q. That wasn’t part of a PR attack. It was to protect TEAM. I’ve not seen them go out of thier way to find a camera and talk smack.

The bloggers tend to be more open on TEAM sites than on Q’s sites. And please, can you really compair blogs from Q and blogs from TEAM LEADERS? The leaders have been very respectful.
deann Says:
September 7th, 2007 at 11:03 pm
JT….
“JT - very neutral observer”
“I am not an ibo”

very neutral observer ? yeah, right ! been sniffing a little too much LOC, haven’t ya ?
since you are NOT an ibo, why don’t you leave the discussion to those whom it affects… IBOs !
rico Says:
September 8th, 2007 at 12:25 am
From post #75 on their have been around 4159 words posted on this blog. JThompson has posted 2088 of them. Almost 50% of total posting is from JThompson.

I don’t mean to be disrespectful to Thompson, but when I compare the quality of his posts, facts, and opinions, with those of people like Robert Dickie, Randy Haugen, and Ron Simmons, on freetheibo; Thompson is way out of his league basing his authority to speak on what his mom did and listing the books he’s read.

His quantity can’t make up for the lack of quality.

Mr. Moderator, please don’t let one blogger grandstand with such long repeated posts.
Richard Says:
September 8th, 2007 at 1:51 am
I am stunned at the venom being poured out on my business over at the freetheibo thingy.

They (Ashton Partners) call my business illegal. I am a Quixtar IBO. Ashton has the term “pyramid scheme” on their main webpage along with A/Q’s name.

When they(Ashton and Woodard/Brady) put that term on there, they better hope that those lawsuit fall their way. When the courts rule that Amway is not a pyramid scheme, they should run for cover.

I smell mega-defamation lawsuits that can be filed. Not only by A/Q, but by the training orgs as well for loss of biz due to defamation.

Additionally,there are a number of so-called TEAM IBO’s who admit to not following their contracts. It appears that they perverted the biz opportunity into an illegal scheme, by their own admissions. Why would you admit to participating in a pyramid? How could you possibly justify offering it prospects?

I hope those folks have very deep pockets.
rico Says:
September 8th, 2007 at 10:54 am
JTHOMPSON QUOTES:
“I am one of the most neutral bloggers on the internet about Amway.”

“i was the #1 blogger on freetheibo forum… with 80 posts - 5% of total. I read every major document and letter. … I am up to date.”

I don’t want my corporation/supplier/opportunity-giver to be wishy-washy and worried… i want to know that they are kicking A**

“b/c American Christians (most, not all) have become lazy and selfish….” “I can win more people than most churches also by myself”

(To be Mr. Woodward means to…)
“Be selfish, motivated by pride and greed. but thank God, i am not like Orrin so i won’t do this”

I have experience with other mlm companies and have read over 20 books on mlm by age 19 inspired by my moms mlm business.

I have built relationships with many diamonds

“I have been around multi-millionaires since age 18 ”

“My dad is the head trainer of a billion dollar software company.”

“Ron has the worst integrity of any TEAM ibo i have met in cyberspace.” (He refuted this statement later)

“The sad part is that Orrin/TEAM is hiding out like Osama Bin Laden, and using his fanatical followers to do his dirty work of PR slandering.”

Says he is a “very neutral observer”

Neutral….Right More like the Emperor who has no clothes.” Very little substance to his arguements…mostly opinion - to which he’s entitled. I just wish he was more respectful and less slanderous of the leaders with whom he disagrees.

Demonizing Orrin with the Osama Bin Laden comparison, is a comment on Mr. Thompson’s character more than it is on Mr. Woodward’s. Mr. Thompson and Mr. Woodward are both professed christians. Mr. Thompson has a biblical mandate, to disagree in a way a way that is respectful and charitable toward Mr. Woodward as a brother in Christ. I think Billy Graham, et al that Mr. Thompson has read would agree.
jthompson Says:
September 8th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Do follow Orrin and TEAM if you want to!!!

108 rico - THANKS!

“Mr. Thompson has a biblical mandate, to disagree in a way a way that is respectful and charitable toward Mr. Woodward as a brother in Christ.”

If you knew me… you would understand and believe that it is possible for me to have Orrin Woodward, Don Wilson, Billy Florence, etc… as a personal mentor in the future. No doubt about it. I have a lot of mentors (about 3-4 main ones) but not one of them is perfect. If someone leaves the straight and narrow for a while, i will not go with them.

TEAM followers/friends - three types
1. The ones that don’t think anymore and will follow Orrin and others to Heaven or to Hell. They are not checking where they are being led. Some are even “cultish”
2. The ones that do think and choose to follow still. They understand Orrin/Leaders have made imperfect decisions but choose to follow anyway. I respect that, I really do. I disagree with Orrin/TEAM leader actions but its your choice. Just be responsible and don’t blame Orrin if you get led astray. God is your source, not a man.
3. The ones that are thinking, do disagree with the plethora of Lawsuits and PR campaign by TEAM/Ashton and fanatical TEAM followers… but are loyal friends…. have the guts to say, “I love you and won’t leave you, but you are wrong about the way you have handled this” - that person i respect the most.

jthompson is Neutral?
What i mean is that i am not paid by Team, Amway, etc…. i am neutral in the fact that i am not biased…. 99% of all my comments are not about TEAM’s past, etc… i am just writing about what i am abserving from Orrin and TEAM Leaders since August 9th.

I am NOT neutral in the sense of who my comments are favoring.
Make sense?
jthompson Says:
September 8th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
INTEGRITY IN BLOG WEBSITES - a comparison

TEAM sites vs. QUIXTAR sites

1) Alticor/adatudes/iboai blog are 100% fair at allowing comments from both sides. They have allowed and not deleted/banned TEAM ibo bloggers that post information that makes Amway look bad.
2) Freetheibo blog forum - has consistently banned bloggers that disagree with them strongly. I personally know of over 6 bloggers that have been banned from freetheibo. They not only bann “dissenters” but they also DELETE ALL POSTS/HISTORY of the blogger. 80 posts of mine were deleted.
Now IBOAI board blog has made me edit many of my comments before i posted. Quixtar Corp blogs have not posted about 5-10 of my comments. But the difference is that Quixtar/iboai do not DELETE my Comments histories.
Not only that but TEAM has used the comments in their web forum as a document that they included in their lawsuits. ex: they submitted the letter from Chuck from freetheibo and all the comments from bloggers…. BUT WHAT THEY DON’T TELL THE COURT IN THAT THEY DELETED OVER 200 POSTS OF THE COMMENTS THAT DISAGREED WITH CHUCK AND OTHER MESSAGES OF TEAM.

What do you call this? - I call it deceiving a Court/Judge.

I have seen comments from over 6+ pro-team bloggers that say that they support team but don’t think freetheibo has been fair in treating bloggers and that they don’t like the way that TEAM has handled their web forum at freetheibo.com

Can i get a witness!?
Tex Says:
September 9th, 2007 at 2:26 am
Kevin #92,

If TEAM has been so transparent to you, how much do Platinums and above make on the tools?

Do you realize the only way you should have known is if TEAM did not follow Quixtar’s instructions not to disclose tool profits, according to Ron Simmons, Chuck Goetschel, and Andy Andrews? Or, is the IBOAI’s response to me accurate, that Quixtar did not provide this input? Which is it, Kevin?

Jerad #104,

Sure, Tex seems to think that he has some sort of first hand knowledge about this. But the two things that I haven’t seem at all the meetings I’ve been to is…

1) The rule violations Tex claims to have reported ———— then you haven’t been paying attention.

2) Tex —————– sure you’ve seen me. I’m the guy in the white shirt, red tie, dark suit who smiles a lot and gets “fired up” every time the speaker opens his mouth. There are advantages to the “no cross-lining” practice, it is a perfect cover for me. All I have to do is APPEAR and ACT like every other IBO in the room, and I stay unknown to the rest of them. Ever seen “V is for Vendetta”?
Tex Says:
September 9th, 2007 at 2:33 am
Jerad #104,

The PR smear campaign is trying to count the TRO’s as if they were significant. What a joke.

The bloggers tend to be more open on TEAM sites than on Q’s sites ————- Are you serious? Several bloggers have been kicked off the TEAM forum, you see all points of view on the Q sites. You are dead WRONG, Jerad.

And please, can you really compair blogs from Q and blogs from TEAM LEADERS? The leaders have been very respectful. ———– First of all, compare how I spell compare to how you spell compare, and when you can compare the two you will notice the correct way to spell compare. Read this sentence over and over as necessary to learn how to spell compare. How does one become a respectful cheater, as Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward has proven himself to be?
Tex Says:
September 9th, 2007 at 2:40 am
deann #105,

I find it amusing a non-IBO is “schooling” the TEAM IBO’s. Perhaps you have been misinformed and mis-taught by Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward?

rico #106/8,

My apologies. I have been busy and unable to keep JT’s percentage down. However, he is doing a fine job.

Sometimes a Christian Man has to call a spade a spade. Remember, Jesus also said “Let your yes be yes, and your no, no.” He didn’t want us to be cream puff and cotton candy sweet if the situation calls for plain talk. Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward brought this on himself, and he is responsible for damaging the reputation of Quixtar/Amway, which includes MY business. Go, TEAM, go. FAR AWAY.
Diamond Dan Says:
September 9th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
I wouldn’t suppose it to be difficult for a young MALE such as Mr Thompson to gather such an opinion of Mr. Woodward. He openly broadcast his vast wisdom by discussing the success of his mother’s mlm. He openly shared his upbringing in the presence of many wealthy individuals. He even shared with us how much better he is than the local church at attracting people.
I may be wrong, but I believe Christ would have us use our gifts and talents for the betterment of others. If Mr. Thompson is so great, and a christian, imagine the good he could do for the Lord.
I must say, it is unfortunate that his heart is so bitter and in such disbelief that there exists on this earth a MAN who truly follows biblical teaching.
Members of the team speak highly of Orrin just as I speak highly of the pastor of my church. He is a leader who posesses both character and integrity. These two qualities are a rare find in today’s business world.
Those in the military can attest that regardless of the outcome, they must fight for what’s right, for the betterment of all. They do this even if it means sacraficing thier own life for a complete stranger…you and I.
Mr. Thompson as well as Q will be in my prayers in hopes that God will open thier eyes to the error of thier ways, and that they may make decisions for the betterment of all. We will never be perfect, but we must strive toward perfection.
God Bless
jthompson Says:
September 10th, 2007 at 10:03 am
114/diamond dan,

You mis-quote me sir. I AM the church, i can’t be better than it… i am part of it… many members, one body. All i was saying was the the body of christ needs 5 fold ministry. We need evangelists too!

I am not bitter. Are you reading my posts? Orrin W. could be my mentor in the future.

Character and Integrity - Maybe in the past… Maybe in the future… but what i have observed the last month or so… is NOT character and Integrity…

Follow your mentors as long as they are following unchanging principles or christ if you are a christian. Don’t let your pastor or mentor/orrin lead you to hell. Follow them only as they are on the straight and narrow path.
jthompson Says:
September 10th, 2007 at 10:33 am
JS104 - they do have evidence. The resignation letters of “Marks” (one of the TEAM “shareholders” and Leaders) wrote a resignation letter to Quixtar that mentions that TEAM will try to start a competing mlm company.

There is a lot more evidence…. but Quixtar doesn’t make public all of their documents.
jthompson Says:
September 10th, 2007 at 10:40 am
TEAM #’s decreasing

One of my “friends” on the web was a TEAM ibo.

She has been to many TEAM events (big and small) - she went to meetings before and now after “august 9th” and she reports what is happenning

“ATTENDANCE AT TEAM MEETINGS HAS FALLEN FAST! THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE AROUND NOW, ARE THE FANATICAL FOLLOWERS. THERE ARE A LOT OF TEAM IBOS THAT ARE QUICKLY BECOMING FORMER TEAM IBOS.”
Jerad Smith Says:
September 10th, 2007 at 10:43 am
First TEX,

Why do you call Orrin “Rosie Ruiz”? I have no idea what it means and it’s irritating. It’s this kind of behaviour that got you kicked off of the more respectful blogging sites.

Secondly, back off my spelling mistakes. It adds nothing to your arguement and shows exactly why you were banned from respectful blogging sites.

Thirdly the TRO’s are not a joke. I would have been removed from Q* by now if it weren’t for the TRO’s for my blogging. Remember that I am one of the very few MEN here who actually has the guts to use my name.

Now go and show the plan.
jthompson Says:
September 10th, 2007 at 11:16 am
“Pastor Dickie” letter sharing edifying Orrin. (Yes Dickie is PAID by Orrin tool business)

“Orrin decided to make a godly appeal to the Corporation to allow those who saw fit to leave in a proper and negotiated way that would be satisfactory to all involved. These are the things that Orrin desired:

1. Peace. All Orrin wanted was to settle this disagreement in a gracious way.” - Dickie

Peace? Godly Appeal?

I am no EinSTEIN - but i am smart enough to know what is not Godly Appeal and not Peace.
jthompson Says:
September 10th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
3 Orrin indisputable facts:

1. Orrin signed and gave his word that he would keep IBOAI documents confidential, Orrin broke his word, and made the documents public
2. Orrin signed, understood, and agreed upon for at least 3 consecutive years… a non-compete contract with Quixtar. Now Quixtar wants this agreement voided. Orrin did not complain about non-compete when it was benefiting his quixtar business.
3. Orrin asked to get out of non-compete that he signed/agreed. When Quixtar said no, Orrin and others handed over a pre-written lawsuit.

Integrity = keep your word.

Orrin may have had good integrity before and maybe will in the future…. but not recently

If Orrin (TEAM leaders) told me something, based on his track record, I could not trust him.
jthompson Says:
September 10th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
TEAM Leaders/IBOs IN THEIR OWN WORDS

1. “i agree in the non-compete agreement to protect my business” (by signing for last 3 years a non-compete that would keep Quixtar/Team downline from starting competing mlm and taking their groups with them)
2. “I don’t agree with the non-compete” with their lawsuit and blogs
______
3. “Quixtar is a Legal business” - by actions/words during building a Quixtar business for years. How many thousands of times have TEAM ibos got the question “is this a pyramid” by a new prospect and told them that Quixtar was a Legal business.
4. “Quixtar is an illegal pyramid” - by lawsuit and blogs
____

TEAM - this week are we democrats or republicans??? What did Orrin/Leaders say?
Looking for answers Says:
September 10th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Quixtar/Amway/Alticor v IBO’s

I was taught that the $ was from the ability of the manufactures to reduce their costs of the traditional distribution model [Kresge/KMart - Walmart] and share in that revenew with the IBO’s. So please help to explain why the high costs of products available through the Quixtar site. Please watch the MSNBC reports before answering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot31XhgE_XE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgnvMfDu47c

Have I been had………?
jthompson Says:
September 10th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
Orrin Woodward

FACTS w/ (my slant on it in parenthesis)

1. Broke his signed word of agreement to keep IBOAI documents confidential. (broke honor of elected position)

2. Wants to break signed word of agreement [signed/agreed for 3+ years] of non-compete contract
(Orrin liked the non-compete when it favored/protected his Quixtar business, now calls it slavery that he is a competitor of Quixtar)

3. Orrin has about dozen of his own blog websites where he edifies himself
(Joins propaganda club of MacFadden & Hitler in using Propaganda literature as manipulation.) ex:
http://orrin-woodward-team.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/4/16/2884171.html

4. Pre-wrote a lawsuit and PR agreement with Ashton days/weeks before meeting in Michigan where he asked Quixtar to void his signed word of agreement to non-compete.
(part of Orrins master exit plan… creating a threat/blackmail as leverage to have his demands met)

5. Orrin/TEAM hire PR firm Ashton Partners to “manage and position information” according to AP’s website.
(This was part of Orrins threat/blackmail. if Quixtar didn’t let him take his Quixtar LOS downline with him to his next mlm/venture… then Orrin said he would create a PR nightmare for Quixtar)

6. TEAM Leaders file 20+ lawsuits & TROs w/ theme of “Quixtar is illegal pyramid”
(this is for PR purposes only, to slander Quixtar reputation. Orrin does not believe Quixtar is an illegal pyramid.)

7. Orrin/TEAM start freetheibo site, bann and delete over 200 comments from their website [at one time over 10% of their website comments]
(freetheibo is part of information control and manipulation of Orrin/Leaders to their downline.)
8. TEAM practiced a form of depth business building different than all other ibo organizations. TEAM [mis]represented Quixtar business differently than other IBO organizations.
(Most new TEAM ibos thought they were getting into TEAM, not getting into QUIXTAR. TEAM’s success of becoming 20% of Quixtars business was due to cheating and practicing the same kind of information control and manipulation with prospects that they are using now on their freetheibo site.)

I could go on and on!

JT
- not an ibo or Q employee
- no incentive to favor Q/A/IBOS/TEAM.
- Writing to balance out the junk on freetheibo
- have similar values as “most” veteran TEAM ibos and leadership, including views on: God/JC, family, country, political, free enterprise, personal development, believe in teams/tools/bsms,
mex of TEAM Says:
September 10th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
jthompson do something go and show the sales plan….see you in 18 months…..if amway dont kick you out

TEAM……………………….THE REAL BUSINESS……….
jthompson Says:
September 10th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
JTHOMPSON STARTS HIW OWN BLOG!

jthompson is going to transition into blogging retirement (at least decrease his workload) so he created his own blog site to inventory all his comments from different sites about TEAM, Orrin Woodward, and others.
Just click on my name to go the the website.

________
DOES TEAM HAVE A NON-COMPETE???

(back on subject - Orrin just gone!)

- Does TEAM/Orrin have a non-compete? When you become a Platinum on TEAM and get in on the system/tool profits, do you have to sign a 1yr non-compete?
Tex Says:
September 10th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Diamond Dan #114,

Your post made no sense. Next time try facts, not fantasy.
Quixkicked Says:
September 10th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
Tex
I have to admire a person with a nonfactually based opinion who will defend it to the end! I have seen your grandstanding posts on tools at multiple internet sites! Sadly, you believe you have a dirty little secret “how much do you make from the tools?” This is no secret on the Team! The CEO of the Team published the breakdown of tool money at this years Go Diamond weekend! He broke down the averages for each level of the business and trained the leaders on how to help their team maximize the profit sharing program! Contrary to your narrow minded view, open and honesty are a priority on The Team!
jthompson Says:
September 11th, 2007 at 12:48 am
Q - please include my new website http://orrinwoodward.blogspot.com/ within my last post about Orrin (or all my recent posts in this thread, thanks!)
Deann Says:
September 11th, 2007 at 11:57 am
jt…#129
you ARE right about ONE thing…
“I am no EinSTEIN ”
and I think if you really thought “Orrin W. could be my mentor in the future. “, you probably need to re-think your posts about him and people he highly esteems…like Pastor Dickie. did you realize that by putting his name and title in quotes,(#119) you were casting aspersions on his character…accusing him of making statements because he is paid ? gimme a break.
Jerad Smith Says:
September 11th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
JT?

Your own blog? Why is this so important to you? Sorry son, I ain’t gonna check it out. You are boring on this blog. Hammering the same old out of context facts Micheal Moore style day after day. Disrespectful to wounded business owners day after day.

And you have no stake in the outcome?!?!

Meh…borrrrring.
Chris Says:
September 11th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
“jthompson Says:
September 10th, 2007 at 10:33 am
JS104 - they do have evidence. The resignation letters of “Marks” (one of the TEAM “shareholders” and Leaders) wrote a resignation letter to Quixtar that mentions that TEAM will try to start a competing mlm company. ”

I would like to see that letter, I have never known a “team” leader to use the word “TRY”
NPR Says:
September 11th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
jthompson and TEX

Can we have an actual exchange of information rather than back stabbing opinions about everything?

I can see why some of the blogs kicked you out. You need to do more than talk down to everyone and write 1 out of every 3-5 postings!
Jerad Smith Says:
September 11th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
Hey moderator,

Howsabout updating this blog a little more often? It’s getting stale around here.
mkay Says:
September 11th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
It would appear that Amway is getting the desired affect. From what I understand so many huge diamonds not to mention smaller pin Ibo’s have quit that I imagine they’re having trouble keeping up with all the resignations. Alticor, on the main page post sales at over $6 million for 06. It begs the question, what will they post for 07? After all ditto orders have declined as well as all the DOT1/STEP. I wonder if their warehouses are over-filled yet. Is XS getting upset at the drop in profits? Amway should speed up going retail because pretty soon the founding families will need to sell their jets. Than again maybe not since they are saving so much money by not having to pay out all those bonuses. What a way to do business. If it were me, I’d have trouble facing myself in the mirror. I have one question for all of you who are on the Amway bandwagon- how long till all you quit?
Thunderstruck Says:
September 12th, 2007 at 12:37 am
jthompson

You say Orrin knew for 3 years that he had a non compete and now wants out, and because of this he had no integrity. O.K. using YOUR logic, Quixtar says that TEAM has been building incorrectly for 8 years and they kept warning him. But it we have been building incorrectly, isn’t that against the rules? And, if we have been going against the rules for 8 years and Quixtar did nothing to stop it, where is their integrity?
Get a life, TEX Says:
September 12th, 2007 at 10:50 am
TEX, or VEX as is may be.
Number #114 made perfect sense. It’s not his fault that your inteligence is so limited and your views so narrow-minded that you didn’t understand. In addition, spelling mistakes and incorrect grammer is to be expected. Most of us have a life, family and a whole world out there. That means, we come into the blogs, read and catch up, answer if the spirit moves and then go on living. Not all of us are obsessed with these Alticore blogs that we let it consume our lives. If how often you blog is any indication, then it’s clear you have no life. As sad as it may be, thi is your life so I can understand why you take these posts so personally. However, don’t expect everyone else to. It’s a miniscule part of our lives NOT our lives. You are a sad little person. Go take a walk around the block.
Jthompson, be original Says:
September 12th, 2007 at 10:53 am
I know tex is your hero but try to be a little more original. I wonder if TEX minds that you are getting so much blogging attention. For the record, 98.379% of what you’ve said about TEAM thus far is junk and inaccurate. Maybe you and TEX can get together and create a life for yourselves outside these blogs. You’re a sad little one too only interested in creating drama to liven up your otherwise uneventful life. maybe you need a walk around the block as well. It amazes me how much time people spend on this junk!
jthompson Says:
September 12th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
“try” is my word (its called a paraphrase)

Quixtar submitted the Marks Letter to the courts. Court cases are won/lost in the Court of Law, not the Court of Public Opinion.

If TEAM/Orrin became free of a non-compete and was allowed to have his Former Quixtar IBO downline to join him in the new venture, do you think that Orrin would WANT that?
Do you think Orrin is going to sit on the couch and watch tv or try to “take TEAM to a Million!”?

Of Course he would start or become distributor with another mlm!

Jerad Smith - its ok. you don’t need to visit my blog but you will miss out on the article I wrote about your posts!
Rich Says:
September 12th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
8 jthompson

I have not been on this blog site in a while and first time in this particular post. I was reading the older posts and I would like to make one little correction, instead of telling pinger that he is one of the few that has not been banned from the freetheibo site, perhaps you should have said that you were one of the very very few people that HAS been banned from freetheibo site because of the “intensity” (ie: hatred and constant disparaging of everyone that did not agree 100% with you and against TEAM. All you had to do was make an attempt to be civil with everyone and not attack attack attack and you probably would have been allowed to stay.
I am out of here Says:
September 12th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
bottom line is they dont need you North America, Amway has grown so much they dont care what America is doing in business.

Once many of you lose your downline due to name changing again and again… I for one just wish I was not sucked in, but hey they made Quixtar look real. I just can not represent a company with so much problems keeping their business in check…

What a shame too because with Quixtar even though a lot of old Amway was creeping all around was a good business model. Amway is like a dirty word in America…

Good luck for those of you who have the nerve to stay when your not making any money… one thing that was always true to Amway form was the fact they still want the people on the bottom to carry all those diamonds on their backs, they increased their pay levels 2x since I was in the business and the 3% is from the 50s it has never gone up.

I already found my next company… thank god they even copy wrote the compensation plan too…
jthompson Says:
September 12th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Agreed Team - once i post something on these blogs, i can’t edit. Go to my blog and see my finished products, better grammer, way more facts w/ word links onto court documents.

p.s. i think freetheibo forum has got a little more fair. But early on they really were not fair….
jthompson Says:
September 13th, 2007 at 10:29 am
Rich, i was WAY nicer when i was at freetheibo, b/c i was new to T vs Q and b/c i was not an ibo… i was neutral…. i didn’t know if TEAM or Quixtar was right.

My blog fine tunes my communications.
I have zero hate towards anyone with TEAM.

I just posted on my site the simply WHY i am blogging and the perspective I have…. it will explain (maybe not completely excuse) my writing style.
jthompson Says:
September 13th, 2007 at 11:02 am
NORTH AMERICA

Quixtar should have terminated Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady, and TEAM affiliated Leaders a long time ago.
Fact is that Orrin and others are producers! Though Q would have only terminated about 500pv per ibo, they knew that TEAM was the one that had the relationships/influence with their Quixtar downline… terminating the Leaders, means also losing thousands of ibos within a year.

Q didn’t want to lose 20% of their business.

Quit telling myths…. if you were owner of Alticor, you would not want to lose 100++ million dollars of North American revenue within 1 year.
Q/A is not trying to get rid of North America. They do CARE bigtime.

The ex-IBOAI board members have shared information that has led to myths/lies about Amway and its future.

Based on the info i have seen from both sides, TEAM has acted like a rebellious teenager.
jthompson Says:
September 13th, 2007 at 11:56 am
AMWAY BUSINESS TRANSFORMATION & TEAM APPROACH

The same ibo business building practices (ex: “Team Approach”) that have been invented to hide the Q/A names, are the same practices that have given Q/A bad brand names in many American markets.

The Business Transformation Project included Q/A losing patience with TEAM and setting up an August 9th meeting to put an end to the “Team Approach” that they tolerated in the past.

http://adatudes.opportunityzone.com/2007/07/03/Business-Transformation.aspx

I think i am going to write a short book about TEAM and Quixtar. I will start on my blog.

the way mlm works, the distributor must stay in submission to the Corporation. The Corp is not just a supplier.
jthompson Says:
September 13th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
Thank God for Orrin Woodward and TEAM.

TEAMs actions over the last few years that led to the infamous August 9th meeting… can be thanked for lauching Amway Business Transformation.

Orrin and his crew have supplied ample motivation for Amway and Amway/Q IBOS to make the next 5 years absolutely extraordinary!

The Corporation and The Field/teams will work together more closely than in years. They need eachother.

Every part of the business is improving!
jthompson Says:
September 13th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Orrin, the man has learned to use American Law system like a Gun.

http://orrin-woodward.blogspot.com/2006/01/quixtar-team-markermans-jody-victor.html

Anyone know how many lawsuits Orrin Woodward has filed in his life? How many have his followers filed?

I think he is sueing Quixtar, IBOAI Board, Quixtar Critics like Scott Larson….

if he is operating at the 5th level of leadership, than there must be a 6th level.
jthompson Says:
September 13th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
http://www.shauncarter.com/2007/08/how-i-think-team-could-win/

Interesting article - how TEAM/Orrin build their business, sponsoring people into TEAMs BSM business before people even know about Quixtar.

This is part of MIS-REPRESENTATION that TEAM got in trouble for.
Name another mlm that builds the business the way TEAM did.
jthompson Says:
September 13th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
The book that inspired my origional mlm dream was a book by Bob Crisp; “Raising a Giant” about his rise and fall in Amway. Bob build a 200,000 person ibo organization and went triple diamond in only about 4 years in the 70/80’s. The fastest growth i have ever seen.
Then he started thinking he was smart, started his own group, changed things, stopped listening to his upline, and stopped listening to Amway.
Its a great book and his story has much in common with Orrins. The thing is that Bob Crisp took personal responsibility for what happenned in his fall and called his pride/ego.

I promise you this, if Orrin takes personal responsibility and admits mistakes he made in his amway/Q career, i will buy his book too!

I need to write a book summary on jt blog.

Read Bob’s book!
SAK Says:
September 13th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
To jthompson:

SO OVER YOU AND YOUR COMMENTS…BLAH BLAH BLAH
Thunderstruck Says:
September 13th, 2007 at 11:04 pm
Jthompson, you wouldn’t understand Orrin’s and Chris’s book because you truly do not understand the men.
jthompson Says:
September 14th, 2007 at 1:22 am
139 - go to www.mlmfacts.net - and click on the forum about TEAM banning dissenters. It lists over 6 that were banned.

After my 60th comment at freetheibo, i emailed the moderator to ask how i was doing, the moderator emailed me back and said i was doing fine, appreciated my comments (i was nicer then and more neutral)
Bam! The after my 80th comment, i was banned. Nothing changed….. if you want i can provide you with 3 full emails to me from pro-team bloggers that didn’t want me banned.
jthompson Says:
September 14th, 2007 at 1:26 am
TEAM,

Why don’t you sue TEAM for being illegal. Their books are 2x the price of amazon if you count tax/shipping/RetailPrice.

Quit complaining about Price when T charges you 2x what amazon.com charges.

p.s. Quixtar products are exclusives, don’t compare them to cheap products like Tide and Centrum.
Other IBO groups actually do product education and if there is any low stat about total Q retail sales in America, T is most responsible for the low # according to lawsuit/forum, Team says that retail is impossible. Well other American ibos did 50million + in retail sales…
jthompson Says:
September 14th, 2007 at 1:32 am
Team bloggers compares Amway Execs to the British Crown that murdered founding fathers

I am not intending to reach the heights of personal attacks that i have found on the web, like freetheibo

I do give credit to Orrin Woodward for mastering the art of influence - both personally and through systems.

Based on the facts, i believe that Orrin’s system was not honest… but he still gets props for his creativity.

People are motivated by avoiding negative and trying to gain positive.
Orrin filled the Internet with Positive about TEAM and build a strategy to promote TEAM, and he hid the Quixtar name and didn’t try to edify Quixtar.
It was not honest, but it worked.
Thunderstruck Says:
September 14th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
jthompson….what’s not honest? If you drive a Jaguar XKE do you tell everybody it’s a Ford? What about “American made cars” with Japanese parts assembled in Mexico? Thing is we did not “hide” Quixtar, they were the store with the stuff. The stuff does not “drive” the business, leadership does. We focus on leadership. Believe me, when this is all done and whatever time is passed, leadership will prevail.
Chris Says:
September 16th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
Sounds like jthompson doesn’t know what the hell he is talking about and has become a meandering monkey of Alticorrupt spin.
Do us a favor and step out and see things from the vantage point of positive success,a proven success with a leadership machine. A year from now you will be embarassed of your comments of Orrin Woodward, mark my words
Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
September 17th, 2007 at 9:24 am
jthompson: You are welcome to link to your blog if you feel it bolsters the message of the comments you leave here. However, this isn’t the best place to discuss your domain issues.
Chris Says:
September 17th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
I wanted those who are at this site to understand the limits of individuals who remain in the dark because it threatens their status Quo. A Quixtar IBO of 22 plus years contacted me in regards to signing up under him, because of what has happened with TEAM. I told him that I just sent in my resignation letter last week and received confirmation of that today. He said, well where do you buy your product. I dont,I replied,I now focus on Leadership Development with the TEAM. TEAM has lead in this area for the past 9 years and we will continue to do the same regardless of company being plugged in.
You see Orrin Woodward was in Amway and then quixtar. He built and he rebuilt and realized that he was going 3 steps ahead and 2 steps back with the building model amway uses. So he developed TEAM approach which combined with an incredibly well designed system of learning has been number one in building the quixar business and made up well over 40% of that business. What shocks me is that this individual has no idea, and solely trusts Amway to give all the right facts in these massed produced spin mails.
This individual told me that Orrin was terminated(Orrin resigned). He said that Orrin broke the rules(Orrin would not break a rule or a law because that will always come back to bite you, plus its dishonest).
He said that TEAM did things completely againts quixtars mandates(there are plenty of letters and documents to prove that they knew of these and whole-heartedly approved of them, mainly because we were building so fast how could they complain. I reminded him that Orrin and half of the IBOAI board left with him and others in the higher echelon of Quixtar. I guess I have done enough homework on this matter to know that I would have been duped into thinking that TEAM is a fly by night operation, but rest assured, it is not going away. Those who get the right information in the information age will surely get the reward.
This person of 22 years in the business sits at home reading his Alticorrupt news letters thinking that he has his hands on a great business, but doesnt want to look at the fact that the IBOAI is being disbanned and the ADA will not be reinstated. What that means is that there will be NO PROTECTION for the ABO’s(IBO’s) anymore. You think that prices will go down and that your business will grow. You have got to look farther ahead than your next meeting, your next order or your next check. They have positioned the builders of quixtar into a program of indetured servanthood.
You are self consuming product and not retailing it at a rate competetive with reality.
I could go on, it is up to you to learn.
DLSChicago Says:
September 17th, 2007 at 10:30 pm
JT still won’t answer my question. He (or she)continues to blog about TEAM but has not provided any source of credibility. JT, I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt to see if you possibly knew what you were talking about. I won’t go to your website again. We are waiting for your answers here. Please stop promoting your blog site and answer the question. To others on this blog, I’d recommend not sparring with JT (ie; withold attention) until he shares what his exposure has been to TEAM and provides reasons as to why we should even begin to listen to his points.
Chris Says:
September 18th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
152 JT i would like to know which books you seem to think are higher price
mkay Says:
September 18th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Bridgett, regarding your statment of Artistry and Nutrilite being retailed at Walmart. Let me give you a little history. I’ve been a makeup artist for about a dacate and been specializing in skincare for about seven years. I have found Artistry to be on par with most makeup brands out there. Some brands, and I’m not refering to Chanel and the like, which are available at Walmart are better than Artistry. There was a time when Artistry was a much better brand however, over the years the quality has deminished, and the quality of competitors has increased. As far as the price of Artistry, no one who shops at Walmart will pay the current price. But once the IBO’s are gone the corp will save themselves huge amounts of money by not paying out bonuses so the prices will decrease to suit the retail market. You must keep in mind the huge mark-up on Amway products.
As far as Nutrilite, I don’t know enough about vits myself, but from what I hear from those in my org who are well versed in Nutrilite, their opinion is that the vits are not of the quality they once were. That seems to be because of the number of new vits they are coming out with that quality seems to have gone by the wayside. That, however, is just hearsay.
I strongly encourage everyone to question the corp regarding the plan to go retail. Don’t take the response at face value but really investigate the issue. Remember that the core line is available in retail stores in some parts of Europe already. In fact it has been for a number of years at much lower prices than the IBO cost in said country.
If I can clarify this further please let me know.
IamSpartacus Says:
September 19th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
I wanted to make an awesome suggestion. Perhaps you should include an “unsubscribe” button online to streamline all the resignations.

I am Spartacus
David J Says:
September 19th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
Didn’t You have to take down all negative and false information down about the team, orrin, chris, etc. and that means that you are in breach of the texas court rulings.
Chris Says:
September 20th, 2007 at 2:44 am
NO I AM SPARTACUS
RESIGNED AND READY TO CONTACT THE FTC SEE THEIBOREBRLLION.BLOGSPOT.COM
TEAM_MEX Says:
September 20th, 2007 at 2:47 am
I- I
B- be
O- owned
Tex Says:
September 20th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
TEAM_MEX #164,

You Be Owned by Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward.
Thunderstruck Says:
September 21st, 2007 at 12:57 pm
David J:

Your post makes absolutely no sense. I guess you are under the assumption that Quixtar thinks they have to follow the rules. Don’t you get it? They run an illegal pyrimad, they “own” us, they lie, they spin, they change contracts, they are above the law!!
Ozzy2006 Says:
September 25th, 2007 at 11:29 am
WOW! I look at the “TEAM” blogs and Alticor blogs and have made up my mind. Alticor/Amway/Quixtar people are scared and need to resort to slander, threats, and asinine comments. I can see where I’m going with my business. The TEAM shows dignity, loyalty, honor, and RESPECT.
Jthompson, I respect your opinion. But why be obnoxious when someone disagrees with you?(don’t answer, I don’t care) I’m glad you are not my business partner. The business would have been dissolved within an hour after it began. Quixtar products are overpriced… Face it! Do the price comparison with the major stores and you’ll see. If you want to open your eyes and see.
One more thing. What is the shelf life on Quixtar products?
dwilliams Says:
September 25th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
“Pigs Don’t know Pigs Stink”
“Don’t wrestle with a Pig b/c you will both get dirty and the pig likes it” - Quixtar Diamond

Questions for TEAM:

1. Did Orrin.. sign a non-compete contract with Quixtar?
2. Does TEAM have their own non-compete contract?
3. Did orrin/TEAM sue Scott Larsen, Quixtar, IBOAI Board, Quixtarfiles site, etc?
4. If you believed that the Q Prices are too high… why have you chosen to be Q IBO for years now? (b/c Q has not changed their pricing patterns in the last few years)
5. Is TEAM still building a Quixtar business? If they are only building a TEAM business - how so? Do you have open meetings showing the TEAM bsm compensation plan?

156admin,
he is not going to talk about his blogs anymore. He received anonymous comments threating lawsuits from Orrin Woodward for Copyright infringement.

Internet Marketing 101
1. Create lots of sites and blogs edifying yourself or your product. Link the sites together for more hits and advertise on google.
2. File Lawsuits against Critic websites that de-edify your name/products, etc… this way negative sites don’t show up much.
Jerad Smith Says:
September 27th, 2007 at 12:28 am
I’m kinda slow. I just figured out that dwilliams is jthompson.
DLSChicago Says:
September 27th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
lol jerad!
Ozzy2006 Says:
September 27th, 2007 at 9:09 pm
dwilliams (aka. jthompson ) Do you keep changing your name because You are so arrogant that people discredit your opinion? Close minded and no one wants to debate you? Or all of the above?
As I said in my first post of this forum, “Q” products are over priced. If you want links and are to lazy to look, I guess I can provide them for you if needed.
“Q” changes the contract more often then it seems you change clothes. Take the hint. I didn’t sign a contract with Amway! I signed it with “Q”! I have family and friends that WERE in Amway and they laughed at me when I tried to sign them up as customers because of the “Q” name.
jthompson, if you can make Amway work for you, congrats. This isn’t what I signed on for.
As I stated to you, I belong to an organization that represents dignity, loyalty, honor, and RESPECT.
I WILL NOT BE AN AMWAY distributor!
To all Amway distributors: If AMWAY works for you, congrats. I just do not nor will I do AMWAY.
And jthompson, you never answer questions. you just seem to repost with a spin.
Tex Says:
September 28th, 2007 at 11:58 am
Ozzy2006 #171,

I think dwilliams (aka. jthompson ) changed his name and shut down his site because of threats from Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward & Co. Another reason why I am not interested in starting my own site, for those of you who wonder.

I posted several competitively priced products on qblog last year, so I’m not interested in your cherry picked ones that are not competitively priced. As I have stated previously, it is upline who preaches 100% loyalty to the products, and if IBO’s only bought what they wanted to buy based on VALUE (price and performance combined), many of the products would either have their prices dropped, or would be dropped from the inventory.

Sounds like you need some new friends (can’t do much about your family), if a simple name throws them into a tizzy.

You belong to an organization that represents hero worshipping, follow the lemming leaders, and bash anyone who doesn’t agree with you.

You wouldn’t be an Amway Distributor, you would be an Amway Business Owner. We don’t distribute much any more, remember? It’s the computer/information age, just like you show in your TEAM Open plans. Changing the name doesn’t mean we go backward with technology and start to wear green tennis shoes and pull our little red wagons up and down our streets. Grow up.
Matt Says:
September 29th, 2007 at 3:36 am
I simply want to say that I’m disgusted with how Quixtar/Amway has handled the situation. The level of unprofessional ism is astounding. I believe that if Quixtar/Amway felt they were in the right, their behavior in regard to this matter would reflect that.

I think it’s been mentioned in a post somewhere here that this is a situation that is only hurting all IBOs and I say that I agree with that statement and feel that it is very unfortunate.

Quixtar is a business I used to believe in. Now, coming away from this, I know that I can’t continue on with Amway. I will say that if nothing else, I have been able to come away with principles taught by a training system, that was put together by a multitude of leaders that operate on those very principles. I can rely on those principles in anything else I do, but never again will I be able to benefit from anything offered by Quixtar. The real value speaks for itself. I simply hope that at some point, everyone can see that. No matter what comes of this court case the real value will always be there with me. Never will a moment I spent building the business be wasted as long as that is kept intact. Never will a penny invested be considered a bad business transaction.

I sincerely hope that this conflict comes to a peaceful resolve.
Tex Says:
September 29th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Matt #173,

I simply want to say that I’m disgusted with how TEAM/Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward has handled the situation. The level of unprofessionalism is astounding. I believe that if TEAM/Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward felt they were in the right, their behavior in regard to this matter would reflect that.

I think it’s been mentioned in a post somewhere here that this is a situation that is only hurting all IBOs and I say that I agree with that statement and feel that it is very unfortunate.

Quixtar is a business I continue to believe in. Now, coming away from this, I know that I can’t continue on with Amway until the tool scam is fixed. I will say that if nothing else, I have been able to come away with principles taught by a training system, that was put together by a multitude of leaders that operate on those very principles in the open, but run a tool scam behind the scenes, as evidenced by their own court documents and direct statements. I can rely on those principles in anything else I do, but never again will I be able to benefit from anything offered by TEAM or any other tool scam company, which means most of them. The real value speaks for itself. I simply hope that at some point, everyone can see that. No matter what comes of this court case the real value will always be there with me. Never will a moment I spent building the business be wasted as long as that is kept intact. Never will a penny invested be considered a bad business transaction.

I sincerely hope that this conflict comes to Quixtar grinding TEAM’s face in the dirt until they cry “uncle”. Just Go, TEAM.
whatever Says:
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:29 pm
Tex,

I simply want to say that I’m disgusted with how you continue to handle the situation. Your level of unprofessionalism is astounding. I believe that if you were really interested in building an Amway business, your behavior in regard to this matter would reflect that.

I think it’s been mentioned in a post somewhere here that this is a situation that is only hurting all IBOs and I say that I agree with that statement and feel that it is very unfortunate.

Quixtar is a business you claim to continue to believe in, but yet, apparently don’t see fit to build it. You know that you can’t continue on with Amway because the product pricing and name association makes that too difficult. You will say that if nothing else, you have been able to come away with principles taught by a training system, that was put together by a multitude of leaders that operate on those very principles in the open, but you can’t seem to get over the fact that someone makes money on the training system. You can rely on those principles in anything else you do, but apparently choose to never again benefit from anything offered by TEAM. The real value speaks for itself. I simply hope that at some point, everyone can see that. No matter what comes of this court case the real value will always be there with me. Never will a moment I spent building the business be wasted as long as that is kept intact. Never will a penny invested be considered a bad business transaction.

Carry on.
Tex Says:
October 3rd, 2007 at 2:17 am
whatever #175,

Whatever.
big dog Says:
February 28th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
who’s laughing now?

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