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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
August 31st, 2007 @ 10:29 am ET…
Just gone - Orrin?
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
The following comes from a complaint Ron Simmons filed in court in Texas today. Haven’t had time to PDF it yet. The interesting part reads:
“The Woodwards and Bradys at one time operated a business support training business that functions and exists entirely independently from Quixtar, namely TEAM. The Woodwards and Bradys have resigned their positions from TEAM.”
News to us. Anyone else?
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
August 31st, 2007 at 10:44 am
Ron Simmons
From what i see on the freetheibo forum Ron filed a lawsuit/complaint against Quixtar in Texas on August 22nd?
Ron also thinks Quixtar is an illegal pyramid… not just for a couple days but for years…. b/c high prices….
Clarification comment #13
Ron Simmons Says:
August 29th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
“We are all still IBOs using the materials for our Q business.”
Ok Ron, Mr. Integrity -
So you are you are in agreement with Orrin and Chris - Quixtar is an illegal pyramid. So recruiting prospects, operating a Quixtar business is illegal…. and is Immoral….
So why are you continuing to build a Q/A business?
Remind me again of the “Facts” that you know so well….
What does it say about Ron’s integrity to knowingly break the law for months and years… profiting off of it?
Orrin, Chris, Ron… a persons integrity is only as good as their word.
O/C - gave your word to keep iboai trade documents confidential and you broke your word. You agreeing to iboai confidentiality was a lie. period.
Now you want to break you word/agreement again by being exempt by non-compete rules.
Ron Simmons has said that Orrin/Chris/TEAM is not asking for money in the lawsuit… just freedom….
Well you are misleading people. You want to take Quixtar IBOS downline and crossline and confidential information… and use the people to make money in other business ventures.
August 31st, 2007 at 10:59 am
Whats the point of posting this? I know you are trying to point out the statement about Woodwards and Bradys resigning from TEAM but who the heck cares at this point. They are not Quixtar “employees” now and if they choose to resign from TEAM for what ever reasons so be it.
August 31st, 2007 at 11:00 am
p.s. Ron is probably a great guy… great husband, father, and person.
It is possible for great people to make errors in judgement. I know i have. Just ask “King David” from Bible days. He was the #1 stud spiritually/morally around… and at his height… he committed adultery and murder…
They key is david (after he realized mistakes) he confessed it and changed his ways…
August 31st, 2007 at 11:11 am
This is definitely shocking that Orrin and Chris would leave TEAM. that would make their class action lawsuit completely pointless. I imagine it is a typo and should have read “Quixtar” at the end and not “TEAM.”
August 31st, 2007 at 11:39 am
You have no idea what you are talking about. As usual this Corporation is placing just the right slant on things so it’s employees (which by the way, I had the understanding that I was an Independent Business Owner - not an “employee”, at least that’s what I signed up to be) will believe what the Corporation determines appropriate, and that which ultimately benefits the Corporation.
To other IBOs - if you are not affiliated with the TEAM, then you have no position to comment on it’s leaders. They are men of integrity and concern, not to mention desire to make a difference in this world — not simply to gold plate their pockets as the owners of Amway have done for years upon years.
Get a clue people, this Corporation called Amway, Alticor, Quixtar is out for #1 - increasing the wealth of the the ownders at your expense. They do not care about you. What have they done for you, to help your business grow? Have they come and worked in your group to help you?
The leaders of the TEAM have done that for me. I have personally met several of them and they have come and worked in my downline to help motivate and encourage us. They are committed to Have Fun, Make Money and Make a Difference — not just for them selves, but for everyone who wants to associate with them.
To the owners of Alticor, Amway, and Quixtar - learn the definition of integrity and then you may have something to talk about. And to those of you who are blinded by the Corporate lip service, use the free will God gave you to listen to all the facts and exercise proper discernment to arrive at a conclusion on your own. Do not be fooled by the influence of this Coporation. They do not care about you as a person or as an IBO - in fact they consider you property, field agents, employees — indentured servants.
This is the home of the free and the brave. The ladies and gentleman (term used lightly) of this Corporation are certainly not brave as they hide behind scandal and deceit of the people they employ.
The leaders of the TEAM seek to help the world become FREE so they can actually improve the quality of thier lives.
August 31st, 2007 at 11:56 am
jthompson: It has come to our attention that you are posting rather frequently and under multiple handles (i.e. ‘johnnymoses’). We strongly suggest you stick with one identity. Your comments will remain in our moderation queue for the time being.
Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.
August 31st, 2007 at 11:59 am
my full name is johnny moses thompson. that is what my last few posts on multiple sites has been. I use the same email on all.
Please post.
August 31st, 2007 at 12:12 pm
5 pinger,
It appears you are one of the few that have not been banned from the freetheibo site.
indentured servant was one of their favorite terms.
TEAM leaders are doing what Dexter Yager warned about in his 82′ Pearl club tapes. TEAM leaders have served earned the trust of a lot of people… and now they are Raping their group for their own selfish agendas.
TEAM orrin, chris… had a lot of power… developed super-powered pride and ego… and they are going to hit the floor as fast as they rose to the top.
tex, ibofightback, jthompson, ibo1998, anotherview, and many more… have all been banned from TEAM forum and all their posts have been eliminated. Have any TEAM ibos been banned? One guy named Armando… called me a curse word… and he was not banned.
August 31st, 2007 at 12:16 pm
Johnnymosesthompson: Thank you for clearing that up. Yes, we did see you were using the same email. As you’ve used ‘jthompson’ on this blog predominantly, may we suggest you stick to that?
August 31st, 2007 at 12:37 pm
jthompson #8 and others,
The reason you’ve been banned from FreeTheIBO site is because it’s run by the PR firm Woodward et al. hired as a part of their strategic game plan. The guy running it or behind it is Michael Geczi of Ashton Partners PR firm. The purpose is NOT to provide a discussion forum for just anyone, but as a piece of their Internet defense/attack negative PR strategy… all thought out in advance. Just look at the end of their press release “Judge Issues Clarification…” and connect the dots.
August 31st, 2007 at 12:48 pm
Another piece of Ashton Partners’ (Team’s) strategy has been to goad Alticor PR into an open, negative hammer-and-tongs battle which Alticor can never win, even if (and when) they win in court. The negative fall-out is intended by Team strategies to play against Alticor and impact Team members (solidify commitment) and weaken or cause disengagement on the parts of many ‘neutral’ IBOs who just want to build a business and are being hurt by the negatives.
The sad part is that Alticor PR fell for the gambit and instead of playing the “harmless as doves and wise as serpents” strategy, has abandoned the winning approach modelled for them by Quixtar PR and gone for the thumb-in-your-eye too approach.
August 31st, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Just curious, is the PDF going to be posted in this blog today?
Also, is there any way to verify this information as true?
August 31st, 2007 at 12:54 pm
i don’t know for sure…
but if i had to guess….
TEAM does not expect to win any law suits. Their purpose is to bring as much negative to Amway name as they can… and continually… with persistence…. until they are released from non-competes.
Read the lawsuit. It made me laugh….
August 31st, 2007 at 2:03 pm
MojoMan: Once a PDF becomes available to us, it will be posted ASAP.
The text comes straight from today’s filing. Curiosity fills the halls here, as well.
August 31st, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Can we say that there are good people on both sides of this mess? I’d love for the founding families to dig up Compassionate Capitalism, Believe, and the Bible and reinstate the founding principles of this business.
I Love this business and we need to pray for Steve and Doug to make wise decisions that will effect the next generation.
August 31st, 2007 at 2:53 pm
My take on this is Orrin/Chris “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward/Brady resigned from TEAM so that TEAM can go on selling their tools without them being legally connected. They are probably still being payed a “consulting” fee, or have some of the profits “set aside for future projects (like a new house)”.
On a related issue, when are the Platinums and above supposed to contact their downline and tell them which side of the fence they are taking? Or are they still figuring out how they’re going to tell us we’re changing back to the Amway name, which effectively starts tomorrow?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Thanks Admin. We are indeed curious!
August 31st, 2007 at 3:51 pm
It seems that most on this blog are pro Amway/Quixtar. However I foresee that changing once Amway/Quixtar goes public with it’s deal with Walmart. It seems to me that all you pro Amway are going to have a much harder time building your businesses once your prospects can go to Walmart and buy the same product at well below IBO price. Perhaps asking Amway about this would be a good idea.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Orrin Woodward
check this out - http://orrin-woodward-team.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/4/16/2884171.html
let me share my favorite sentences -
“of all the presents, corp executives, heads of state… in the entire world, Orrin’s Leadership is in the top 1%”
or this one
“I know of no one who can cast a vision like Orrin Woodward. Orrin is an expert in the field of Visioneering”
ROFL!!!!!
Everyone - Read how great Orrin says he is!
I love Orrin’s picture on the front page… wrapping himself with red,white,&blue… oh yeah - don’t forget the Eagle - got to make sure you brand youself as Mr. All American. Read Tony Robbins book called “unlimited power” - the chapter on anchoring. goto amazon and type “anchoring” under the UP book “look inside”
Orrin has multiple blog websites that are heavily promoted within TEAM that talk about how great he is.
Orrin - this reminds me of when Bernarr Macfadden (the founder/influencer of physical culture movement which led to bodybuilding/fitness and Bernarr was a Publishing Giant … with the biggest magazine/newspaper publishing giant in the world)… of when Bernarr had a friend write an autobiography about him… “Story of Success” telling everyone how great he is… b/c he wanted to get elected President.
I think this is hilarious!
History is full of “Leaders of character and integrity” start off well… then get a glimpse of unlimited power… and their ego/pride allows them (deceived themselves) to start using their own people.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:25 pm
ORRIN - This guy sure has a big opinion of himself.
So far i have found over 5 websites with his name as the main domain name… talking about how great he is.
They are all written by Orrin or with his approval/posting.
I think i am going to try this - it works for Orrin.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Do the powers that be have issue with my comments? I’m wondering where my comment went. Or is Alticor afraid to post it because of the questions it will generate.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:51 pm
After a lot of research it appears your organization has done every thing to discredit Diamonds who have tried to make this a equitable opportunity for your. History - has shown that your company has lacked integrity for over 60 years.
Why should anything you say now matter?
August 31st, 2007 at 5:00 pm
jthompson,
What part of the complaint made you laugh? Was it the fact that only 3.4% of Quixtar’s total volume comes from customers? Seriously, out of all of those plans being showed out there, out of all of those IBOs in and out of Quixtar, the fact that they can’t get any customer volume to stick is quite telling. I think the complaint is right on the money.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:01 pm
WHERE IS YOUR INTERGRITY?
August 31st, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Tex, et al: There seem to be some misconceptions about the new Amway, specifically that Amway is “back tomorrow.” Amway is not yet open for business again in North America. As the new Amway will return within the next one to two years, there is information given to IBOs with this year’s renewal process that refers to the future Amway business. Just clearing that up.
mkay: We make every effort to review and approve comments as quickly as possible. Your original comment is above. And, perhaps you would be interested in today’s post over on the Adatudes blog.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:23 pm
the complaint in this blog did not make me laugh
August 31st, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Jthompson writes: “O/C - gave your word to keep iboai trade documents confidential and you broke your word. You agreeing to iboai confidentiality was a lie. period.
Now you want to break you word/agreement again by being exempt by non-compete rules.Well you are misleading people. You want to take Quixtar IBOS downline and crossline and confidential information… and use the people to make money in other business ventures.”
Mr. Thompson, there are times when it is justifiable to break your covenant. It is not something that should be taken lightly, but if you have a confidentiality agreement with someone and they are using it to keep you silent that they are cheating others, are you still bound by the original agreement. We pay money to support the the existence of the IBOAI and they are elected to serve our interests. It is a moral dilema to choose between protecting the people who you are supposed to protect and those who want to coerce you into silence when the two are in conflict.
When the facts are hidden, who can truly judge? If things are ethical and above board, why does the IBOAI (representing us) want it hidden from us?
I cannot look into the hearts of the TEAM leaders and know their intention; at at this point they are legally bound not to explain it. I cannot look into the hearts of the Amway dynasty and know their true intentions.
I understand Amway’s concern about “losng their people”. On the other hand, Amway didn’t show them the plan…you did. They are your
people, your family, your friends, your business acquaintenances.
I haven’t seen anything that suggests that the TEAM wants to take people against their will, they don’t want them held against their will. If you felt you signed a contract to buy a house and realized that you were paying a higher price than it was worth, there’s nothing wrong with wanting to reneotiate the contract. Contracts are renegotiated all the time in the business world. It’s not a lack of integrity.
Half of all marriages end in divorce in spite of a contract of “til death do us part”. Do we run around yelling “lack of integrity they broke their contract” when friends get divorced? Network marketing is a relationship business.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Jeff #15,
I’d like them to use the Bible as well. Especially the parts about “smite”.
Administrator #25,
That’s why I said “effectively” starts tomorrow. If you don’t think the other side won’t make a big deal of this, or prospects won’t notice (except for TEAM, they probably didn’t use the SA-4400, why would they use the QBOB? Besides, they think Quixtar is an illegal pyramid, why would they give prospects evidence of what they’re joining?)
August 31st, 2007 at 8:00 pm
samuel #24,
We have extra integrity. Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward gave away all he had when he left.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:54 pm
Are you all really that blind????
“Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
August 31st, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Tex, et al: There seem to be some misconceptions about the new Amway, specifically that Amway is “back tomorrow.” Amway is not yet open for business again in North America. As the new Amway will return within the next one to two years, there is information given to IBOs with this year’s renewal process that refers to the future Amway business. Just clearing that up.”
Do you really think we can tell someone that this is not Amway and hand them a brochure that shows it will be whether it was 1 month or 2 years away? How do they not look at that and say “This is Amway”? Are they not getting in for the long term? It just shows again how corporate does NOT understand what is done when a plan is show and a dream is cultivated with a prospect that they can indeed get out of the 95% rat race.
You all “cleared things up all right” made it abundently clear that this IS Amway. Your statement really clears up how much you do not understand what “Independent Business Owner” means. But, I guess you already cleared up your misunderstanding of that issue when your counsel called IBOs your “property”.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:58 pm
It appears that the folks having a really good time with this are the legal teams. How ironic that the people that stand to make the most in this short time of confusion are the lawyers. I believe that the rhetoric from Alticor is uncalled for. I believe that Alticor and their legal team should lower their rhetoric. It doesn’t seem right to have a daily taunt from their legal team when there are so many individuals and families in the middle of this.
August 31st, 2007 at 10:51 pm
This is located on www.ibofacts.com
Question 13:
Do higher level IBOs make money from the sale of tapes, books, and tickets?
Yes, IBOs (Independent Business Owners) can earn money from the sale of tapes, books, and tickets. IBO leaders are successful managers of large businesses. Some leaders have thousands of other IBOs in their organization, spread across North America. As business leaders and managers, they have the responsibility to educate and motivate these other Independent Business Owners. What they offer are professional development materials focused specifically on their business.
In addition, IBO leaders pay for the production facilities, equipment, technicians, accountants, assistants, and other employees necessary to produce such training and motivational materials. They incur the expenses and, of course, realize profits or losses from their efforts, as with any other business.
It is important to note that professional development and education is an international multibillion-dollar business. Authors such as Dr. Stephen Covey (The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People) earn incomes from the sale of books and other materials and conducting seminars. Bookstores everywhere offer hundreds of “how-to” books, tapes, and videos on a variety of topics. Producing and selling books, tapes, and meetings is nothing new to the business world.
This appears to be from the corporation. It appears they don’t have a problem with “some” IBO’s making money from system tools. Why would they have a problem with more IBO’s making $ from this same system, based on how large their groups are?
Just wonderin’
August 31st, 2007 at 11:40 pm
http://www.orrinwoodward.com/articles/An_Attorneys_Perspective.html
Observations
1. a Lawyer on Orrins team saying that their mlm business (Quixtar) is Legal.
2. Is this an example of how TEAM hides the name Quixtar/Amway from their Quixtar/Amway business?
3. From reading TEAM ibo blog comments and reading Orrins blogs, and freetheibo language…. Did Orrin disguise his Quixtar business so well that he didn’t believe he had a Quixtar business?
Orrins has build a mlm empire, but it appears he built it on foundation of deception so his empire is gone now.
September 1st, 2007 at 12:00 am
34jt
by the way the Orrin article on mlm legality by Abraham was published with copyright of 2004.
1. Why didn’t Orrin say something about Quixtar being illegal then? They obviously knew was is a legal vs illegal business? Does it really take 3 years to do something about it? Can you trust this dude?
September 1st, 2007 at 12:02 am
I bet BWW and world wide dream builders wish they were on the TEAM. WHY? Oh let me tell you. The TEAM affiliated IBO’s have been flooded for the past few days with FREE customers from Quixtar. Coincidence? I don’t think so. They should have given the FREE (but seem to be fake) customers to an organization that wanted them. I wonder how they are planning on producing real evidence that the customers marked (PRIVATE) are real? Wow, what a shady organization. I’m so disappointed. It seems like Dick Devos’ chances at the Governors seat is diminishing with the integrity of the organization (Amway/Quixtar), that will do these types of practices against an organization that just wants to go and be left alone. The question is, do the customers get to go too? Probably not, that’s okay, if we didn’t earn them, we don’t want them. We only want what we’ve earned. The funny thing is, right after Burrelli called the IBO’s property of Quixtar, he said the funniest thing. The comment if I can keep myself from laughing to hard was, “They have built their organization off from the GOOD(?) name of Quixtar”. Ha, what a joke. The court room erupted with laughter in Kent County. We’ve had to hide our affiliation up unto the last moment of signatures on the paperwork, just to get people in the business. Let’s face it, no one wants to be in Amway. No one that was in it before wanted to be in, that’s why the board made them change their name to begin with. Good luck with the new SA 4400 in a few days. We should have all seen coming. Steve VanAndel at Acheivers last year said that we should be PROUD of the Amway name and it’s heritage. He is right in one regards, “It’s a great prace to be From”.
September 1st, 2007 at 12:12 am
rico #27,
I agree.
Let’s all pick a rule we don’t want to follow and tell Quixtar/Amway which one doesn’t apply to us. In fact, you can change the rule you don’t want to follow once per quarter, just to be able you say you have an “independent” business.
While we’re at it, let’s all pick one federal, state, and local law we don’t want to follow and notify the authorities which one we picked, so they don’t arrest us when we exercise our “freedom”. After all, this is a free country, right?
September 1st, 2007 at 12:35 am
http://orrin-woodward.joeuser.com/index.asp?c=1
Orrin quotes Jim Rohn.
Jim was my first mentor (after “Arnold” but that was during bodybuilding days)
Jim is an amazing teacher. He will teach from the bible without you even knowing it.
One of Jims #1 students was TOny Robbins, who worked for Jim promoting his seminars, until Tony got so good people wanted to hear him speak! Tony is no longer my primary/active mentor… but he teaches a lot about human behavior and the 6 human needs…. its fun to use what Tony taught me in evaluating what is going on in TEAM vs. Quxitar
I look forward to be at an upcoming TEAM meeting in North Texas.
the TEAM ibos are very kind positive people for the most part.
I am curious to learn how team meetings are similar and different from other ibos.
Its a challenge to speak before a room full of new prospects.. so i look foward to being an enthusiastic guest for the speaker.
I am curious to find out how right and wrong i am in my thoughts about the TEAM system.
I look forward to sharing with you what i find out.
September 1st, 2007 at 12:45 am
Tex #28,
Team does use the SA-4400 in their first night material. Specifically they use a TEAM focused SA-4400 created by Quixtar…just one of many examples proving Quixtar approved of Team Depth building practices.
September 1st, 2007 at 12:56 am
Tex:
Looks like you sure spend a lot of time on this blog, get a life.
To all:
People with integrity expect to be believed, and when they are not they let time prove them right.
Lets wait ten years and see who is the winner in this dispute.
Quixtar has forgotten what makes them who they are, the IBO. We are not employees, this is not a communitst country, and if you give people a choice of following people with integrity, TEAM wins, game over.
September 1st, 2007 at 10:20 am
Tex #30,
(Yes, I know. I’m talking to myself)
Here’s a followup idea: The rule you pick to not follow could be the one you have already broken or the one you intend to break.
After all, this would simply be duplicating our “leader”, Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward.
And if Quixtar doesn’t like it, sue them. It’s the Am(erican) way.
September 1st, 2007 at 11:46 am
Hey Tex and Jthompson,
I see all your posts against Orrin and Chris as well as your responses to absolutely everybody elses posts that are slanted toward the TEAM point of view and I cant help but ask myself why?
You said your not part of TEAM and your not paid by Quixtar/Amway/Alticor. So then, if your not part of Team and not paid by Quixtar, then how in the world does this situation even affect you? Furthermore, why does it bring out such vitriol? It makes no sense.
I have tried hard to figure it out. I thought maybe y’all were just defenders of corporate giants as a matter of principle, sorta like a concerned conservatives. But that makes no sense either, because you can’t be a concerned conservative and fighting against free enterprise unless of course you’re bi-polar… (intended as a joke not a personal attack)
Then I thought maybe its just a hobby? But certainly you possess far to much intelect to waste your time at a computer attacking so many other people your don’t even know. There has to be a reason.
Then it dawned on me… maybe your not being paid by Q/A/A but have been hired by some third party. Then you could legitimately say that your not paid by Q/A. Kinda like Bill Clinton claiming that certain acts with Monica weren’t really sexual acts. Unfortunately for y’all as well as Clintons, most people can see right through that.
Well if thats it, then enjoy your work, but at least let people know the truth behind your situation. Bill Clinton was one of the best politicians ever, but will go down as one of the worst presidents because of his lack of character and the fact that he tried to spin his way out of everything. Y’all are obviously no dummies, (maybe misinformed) so why not learn from his mistake.
Then again there might be another alternative. Maybe I have it all wrong and you have no life and you live to sit on the computer and denounce everything and everyone with half truths and innuendo. Yoe see yourselves sorta like a Cyber Micheal Moores, hopefully skinnier and better dressed. If thats the case… I am confident that there a Dungeons and Dragons tournament going on somewhere on the internet that desperately needs you two? Why don’t you guys go play and leave the business discussions to the adults who are actually affected by all this. Good Luck and May the Force be with you.
September 1st, 2007 at 1:59 pm
There is a positive spin to this whole thing. Resolution will come.
(1) Many TEAM IBO’s will move to or start a company that will give them the independence they want. They may have to sit it out for 6 months. Others TEAM IBOs will decide to stay with Amway.
(2)That means that Amway, whenever it becomes that, will have gotten rid of the thorns in their side and will have the more compliant IBOs still with them. They can go through another round of rule-tightening to make sure this doesn’t happen again. And, their IBOs can go about building their businesses.
(3.)There will probably be some IBOs on both sides of the conflict that will decide this is not an atmoshpere they wish to promote and will begin looking to MarketAmerica, Arbonne, or something else to invest their time, money, and relationships in. (That’s already happening with my downline.)
(4) And then their will be the casualties of war who will quit suddenly or fade away. Amoung them will be the walking wounded who spend the rest of their days, making negative comments about the TEAM, Amway, or network marketing.
These things all seem inevitable at this point. The best thing is to settle quickly at this point. Negotiate a plan that lets us all determine our future. Drop all lawsuits, change the waiting period to 4 months instead of 6. Everybody loses a little, wins a little, and we can get on with our lives and maybe our businesses, if we so choose.
Maybe it’s time for all of us bloggers to start coming up with solutions, intead of trying to prove other bloggers wrong. (I’m as guilty of that as the next person.)
What would you settle for, to be able to get back to business and get this out of the public media?
After a while, parents have to lay aside trying to prove they are right, and have to do what is right for the kids.
Both sides are losing IBOs in this. My dittos that kick in on the 1st of the month are less than 20% of what they usually are.
Do we want to be right or do we want get on with our lives? The longer it takes, the more people are likely to choose options 3 or 4?
The lawyers can’t find a solution, let suggest one.
September 1st, 2007 at 8:18 pm
jthompson #34
didn’t you read the Ron Simmons letter?
September 1st, 2007 at 8:44 pm
#18 Mkay: Where are you getting your information?
September 1st, 2007 at 10:54 pm
TEX,
Have you been to http://crazyfunwildworld.blogspot.com/ I suggest you try it, these are pretty good comments, both sides are being given fair opportunity. YOU might learn something, instead of giving YOUR OPINION all the time, very tired of your “thoughts”. Myself and most others don’t even bother to read your bloggs any more, just scroll past them. Same old crap different blogg.
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:24 am
RH,
The point is you never should have answered simply “no” to the “Is this Amway?” question for the past several years. You should have explained Quixtar and Amway are very closely related and explained the differences. Chances are your upline didn’t like to explain this, just like they don’t like to explain where most of their profit comes from.
So, now you have to talk to your current IBO’s (as if most of them don’t know already) and start being truthful with your prospects. Pretty simple stuff. Get over it.
IBO-in-PA #31,
Lighten up.
Brad #32,
This partial truth distorts the truth that the typical Emeralds and above (and for TEAM, apparently Platinum and above) make most of their money from tools, not Quixtar. A partial truth is a full lie, especially regarding such a critical issue as tool profit is.
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:25 am
jthompson #33,
I think the point of that article is the TEAM tool business is not an MLM.
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:37 am
jthompson #34,
You can’t trust Orrin “Rose Ruiz” Woodward.
However, his suit states the illegal aspect of Quixtar developed over the years, as product prices became too high, he had no reason to accuse them of being illegal prior to the lawsuit, and stated he was trying to work with Quixtar prior to the lawsuit to lower prices.
But you still can’t trust him.
ivan #35,
How do you know the customer information you read about is true? Do the other groups you mentioned have much presence where there are a lot of TEAM Platinums with customers calling in? If not, that is why your phone isn’t ringing. You’re right about the “good name” part, and all upline who make most of their profit from tools and aren’t honest about this fact damaged the name.
Steve #38,
Quixtar approved the words on the paper. It was the practices in the field they said were being done wrong.
scooter #39,
Get a non-Orrin life.
September 2nd, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Steve in Texas, #41–
Steve, this DOES concern ALL OF US!! There is not a single North American IBO whose business is not being affected by this whole situation. Just like us, we know there are many TEAM IBO’s who did not ask for this, or want this, either. Right now, we are all stewing in the same pot.
The fact that you think Tex is a third-party hire would be really funny if it wasn’t indicative of how little you really know. Not to mention that your accusation reminds me of my ex–who was having an affair and accused me of cheating on him so he could feel better about what he was doing. Look to your own 3rd party–Ashton and Partners–who is running the PR/spin machine for the TEAM organization from the freetheibo website. If you find yourself following instructions given to you from that site, you are being used as a pawn in someone else’s game. Open your eyes and do some research on the net, like the Opportunity Zone, thetruthaboutamway.com, and other places you will find in your travels, there. This is not just about you, or TEAM–there is a lot more going on that you should make yourself aware of.
Tex is one of those things. His purpose over the last couple years has been to raise the awareness of current and prospective IBO’S to the dangers of buying into the system BSM plans without at least entertaining the possibility that your upline may be more interested in the profit they can pull from your pockets, than in making YOU profitable in the quickest possible way. He fully supports the need for training and support materials to be successful in this business–as it is a different business model than most–but you have to make sure that what you are getting is both reasonably priced and will get you where you want to go.
Many IBO’s have been so indoctrinated by their own BSM, that they can’t or don’t want to see this as a possibility–are you one of them? (this last is not personally directed at Steve, but to all who read it)
If you have the money to blow and don’t care if you are getting value for your dollar (business and profit value–you can get self-improvement material anywhere), then you are not Tex’s audience, and don’t listen. He is fighting the fight that needs to be fought to remove the last of the negative garbage from this business that has been weighing it down for over 20 years–join him or step aside, don’t get in his way!!
Is he abrasive and Pig-headed and sometimes a bit over-the-top? Yes. But he is fighting for the little guy, and the Big Guys at the top aren’t happy about it–which may tend to make him a little trigger-happy at times. He also gives in to frustration when we just spout the system line, instead of taking an objective look at the situation, and trying to understand what he is really saying.
Tex believes in this company and the dream, with the same depth and tenacity that he believes in the USA and what it stands for. Try learning something from those who state an opposing view, rather than just trying to prove yourself right–everyone has what they believe to be legitimate reasons for thinking the things they do……..
September 2nd, 2007 at 5:02 pm
where is the PDF…
September 2nd, 2007 at 6:44 pm
#41 Steve in Texas - well said!
September 2nd, 2007 at 9:21 pm
46steveintexas,
Nope - not paid by anyone - but i am open to getting paid! Email me!
(btw i have read every major document/information that freetheibo.com and its forum has.)
September 2nd, 2007 at 11:47 pm
Steve in Texas #41,
I’m slanted against Orrin and Chris because they break rules. If you have a problem with that, I have a problem with you as well.
I’m an IBO who feels Quixtar took the right action against Orrin and Co., and there is much more work to do with many other tool companies who are “shy” about releasing information regarding the level of tool profit compared to Quixtar income. This situation affects all IBO’s, in that it gives the business a poor reputation.
The “vitriol” is in response to literally millions of Distributors/IBO’s losing hundreds of millions, perhaps billions of dollars for several decades to tool profiteers, and NOBODY taking a stand for us, including the corp and upline.
Unfortunately for you, NOBODY is paying me to report the truth and demand full disclosure of more of the same truth.
Sometimes people do the right thing because it is the right thing to do, and all of your “theories” are pure bunk.
rico # 42,
Here’s my solution. Tie Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward for so long, make him spend so much money, that he’ll wish he never heard of Amway or Quixtar. Change whatever silly stance the corp has regarding not allowing disclosure of tool profits, then REQUIRE tool profits to be disclosed to prospects and IBO’s. That will fix most of the issues facing this business, and far more effectively than all the other cosmetic fixes put together.
SAK #45,
I checked it out. I wasn’t impressed by the fantasy I found.
September 3rd, 2007 at 1:07 am
Just a quick comment. Before everybody slanders everybody else’s side, please put some thought into it. Please make logical points instead of emotional ones about “who is better.” The reason Orrin and Chris haven’t put a stop to this earlier is because the business was not changing as radically as it is about to within the next year or so. Amway is about to change a lot, there have been a lot of things hidden from even the IBOA board. I’m not saying who is right or who is wrong, but wouldn’t everybody agree that when you change things up so much in something so personal to so many of us, that somebody isn’t going to be happy? I for one, am not happy that I’ve been telling people that Quixtar is a sister company of Alticor, and that Quixtar is Alticor’s new image. The reason I’ve had to tell people this is because people don’t like the Amway name, and don’t want to be associated with it whether it is a good business or not. The image is there… Now what I’ve been telling people about Quixtar makes me look like an idiot. I have well over 100 people in my organizations, and almost all of them were happy they were an IBO of Quixtar instead of Amway. Now I have to tell them that Quixtar is being dissolved back into Amway… Maybe good for the corporation, but I don’t like the heat I’ve already heard from my teams.
Make sense?
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:03 am
pinger,
TEAM wouldn’t exist without Quixtar/Amway there
are many organizations that believe that they could go someplace else because of the “system” that they have in place to help, train, and motivate individuals what people forget is that Amway gave ordinary individuals the opportunity to build an organization when Amway purchased Nutrilite 50 years ago.
September 3rd, 2007 at 6:12 pm
Tex,
You have been bashing Orrin this whole time. Maybe you either forgot or are trying to divert everyones attention from the fact that Orrin is only one of the people on the lawsuit. You’ve got Chuck, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Billy Florence, and now Newton has just joined team. These are a good portion of the board. You can fool some people all the time. You can fool some people sometimes.
But you can’t fool all the people all the time. These guys come from different teams and are aware of what is going on and wouldn’t hook up with team without a thorough investigation of the facts. Most of these guys have been around for 20 + years and know the rules very well as well as the inner working of Quixtar. Up until now they have had an excellent relationship with quixtar and have been admired by so many other teams. If you question that just visit Greg Duncans site as well as Harteis and many others. They are full of their quotes. So Tex how long have you been on the board. I’m sorry Tex but your bad manners are only exceeded by your bad manners.
September 3rd, 2007 at 8:42 pm
When I joined Quixtar, I was told it was my business. This was from the company, not an IBO. I signed up online and soon discovered I had a wonderful support team and was inspired to build a business by people such as those you have just now dismissed and spoken of in such derogatory terms.
Rule 6.5 came along later and I received a note in my email one day recently saying that I could have no other businesses that Quixtar considered competitive.
That does not sound like my own business to me.
I was given a choice by a gracious and diplomatic representative and I chose to resign and assured her that I would continue to speak well of the company and recomend it to others in my writing, consulting, and speaking businesses.
I also held out the possibility that I would later reconnect with Quixtar and continue to use the fine products, especially from Nutrilite.
I can no longer adhere to those intentions in light of the way the company has dealt with these fine people and the news that is coming out about changes in company policies in relation to those actions.
It is not the business I once affiliated with.
I no longer regret my resignation.
It was a very good company and a good opportunity..
September 3rd, 2007 at 10:05 pm
jthompson…..want to be like ORRIN?
BUILD A GROUP OF 30,000 UP……BE A EDC WIHT RUBY FOUNDER OUTSIDE OF HIS 9 LEGS…..YOU GUYS JUST TALK TOO MUCH….TEAM….HONOR & RESPECT….
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:56 pm
Moderator~
ARE YOU GOING TO CONTINUE WITH LETTING TEX ABUSE THE PRIVLEDGE OF BLOGGING WITH ALL THE ELEMENTARY NAME CALLING? WHY WOULD YOU ALLOW HIM TO DO THIS WHEN IT IS CLEARLY AGAINST YOUR RULES OF BLOGGING? JUST WONDERING OR DO SOME GET SPECIAL PRIVILEGES SO SAY SOMEONE COMES ON WITH GREAT NICK NAMES FOR THE DEVOS’S AND VANANDELS WILL YOU ALLOW THAT?
September 4th, 2007 at 12:03 am
YankeeIBO #49,
Thanks, you are on target.
Mojoman #54,
This only makes sense if you misrepresented what you told your IBO’s about the historical relationship between Amway and Quixtar. If you told the truth, there should be no problem. I think you will find there is much less concern about the Amway name than you think, and YOUR attitude and honesty will go a long way to being success during the transition. A much bigger problem is WHY the Amway or Quixtar names have a bad reputation, which is the complete distortion to the business model the tool profits have introduced.
CT #56,
I know ALL of the people you just mentioned made MUCH more money from their tool systems than Quixtar, and so have the rest of the Board that is still in place. I don’t show a tool profit business plan, do you? It’s called bait and switch. Your lack of making a point is exceeded only by your lack of making a point.
Tom #57,
Bub-bye.
mex #58,
I don’t want to be like Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward.
September 4th, 2007 at 12:56 am
Tex - #46
It does amaze me the amount of time you spend in these blogs. The moderator must appreciate how much time you take to comment back to everyone so he doesn’t have to.
Here is a link for ya…
http://amwayaustralia.blogspot.com/2007/09/amway-australia-new-zealand-a2k-is-now.html
where the article states… “Unlike in North America, where Quixtar was a whole new company, with literally thousands of “partner stores”,”
I don’t know what you did but I had to make a decision in early 2000 if I wanted to continue my Amway business or not. I was given that choice by Amway. My choice was to not have an Amway business and just have a Quixtar business or keep my Amway business. I choose to have a Quixtar business. I wanted off the broken down Amway train.
I didn’t need my upline to explain to me what it means when a company asks me if I want to continue a business or not. It was as you say… “pretty simple stuff”.
You really have an amazing amount of opinions and a sorely lacking amount of fact.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:13 am
WHERE IS THE PDF? More importantly, what was the reason for not posting it over the weekend, because “haven’t had time” just don’t cut it. It’s like the post that left out the fact that the injunction in Texas was against Quixtar and that the arbitration would be independent of both parties. Or Mike Mohrs so called letter to DJ Poyfair. Do they really not think that we know both law firms talk to each other regularly? And that in spite of his comments that TEAM could not promote or sell functions or tools; without specifying that it affects only a small fraction of tools according to Judge Sullivan’s ruling (prospecting and plan materials). That’s not just misleading, that’s downright lying.
Does it bother anyone else that Q has yet to officially deny that just over 3% of sales go to non IBOs? On the pricing issue, that is the only thing that matters. For those who disagree how many IBOs do you know who “auto generate” volume from the same customer every month for at least a year? All of you folks saying the prices are okay are the same ones using “self report” to qualify for a bonus more consistently than you don’t.
Some on this site seem to think the real demon is tool profits. I couldn’t disagree more. It’s tool profits disclosure that’s lacking. Having a way to legitimately make enough money to replace a job and give security is a good thing, and hasn’t been done by any significant percentage of those reaching that goal through only the compensation plan, if in fact anyone has done it. And the reason tool profits aren’t disclosed? Q has threatened people like Orrin Woodward and Don Wilson who has tried to get the corporation to be transparent here for years with termination. According to Chuck Goetschel’s post, virtually all of the remaining board members have also wanted to disclose the tool bus. for years and are very unhappy with the upcoming changes. Some of them such as Bill Britt, and Fred Harteis have been sued for something that Q will not let them fix through disclosure. Look into the lawsuits and you will find that almost every former diamond who has left the bus. also said the same thing: Kenny Stewart, Brig Hart, Bo Short, Andy Andrews, and Bruce Anderson to name a few. There’s a lot of consistency there. And can anyone deny that 40 years later the only reason there is an Amway/Quixtar/Alitcor is because of these same tools?
Now why wouldn’t Q want to tell prospects about the best part of our business? The part that changes lives, gives better value than books bought in universities, as well as better value compared to other motivational and/or educational materials sold around the country (which I think is also a good value, ours just costs less and has a better track record of results). Where else can you attend a conference for an entire weekend for $90 or get a CD from someone with proven results for $7? Could it be that being transparent with higher profits from a $7 Cd than from $300 in product would expose the owners getting a full 1/3 of the profits? Could THAT be what they’re hiding? It certainly can’t be a concern over liability. Just look at how many lawsuits are currently pending against Q on this very issue and how many there have been in the last 30 years. The liability problem is already there AND COULD BE LARGELY SOLVED THROUGH TOTAL TRANSPARENCY but not without exposing the lack of profit from a product bus. doing a much greater amount of volume.
At least two people have asked the aticor media blog administrator about this issue with dead silence. Q hasn’t formerly put anything in writing denying the claim on the lawsuit that only 3.4% of sales are not consumed internally. Is there even one logical explanation anyone has for this? This would really help Qs image and standing with it’s IBOs in the field who are wondering about these allegations. Why the silence? For those of you who believe these allegations to be false (obviously I don’t), I suggest you call Qs legal department and ask them. Or even customer relations. Simply call and tell them you want to continue with Q but want to be sure of these allegations. For those who want to disagree don’t reply without first calling Q. Anyone?…Anyone?….
September 4th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
#44 NG: My information is from a source close to the parent company. I started to ask questions after this circus started because the changes the corp is slated to make made no sense to me and my org. For instance the name change. Why go back to what is so hated and distrusted by the public? Because according to my source when going retail, it is much easier to do so under one parent name. And since Amway is entering the retail market overseas where the Amway name is accepted and trusted, they feel it is best to eventually be known only as Amway. They feel that by the time the core line is in Walmart stores in North America their reputation will be restored. And keep in mind that they need to faze this in over a two year period is because they need time to faze out all the IBO’s. Who needs IBO’s when your product is available on the corner. Hope this helps.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Makingadifference: The business opportunity is distributing Amway/Quixtar products. If the tool business is so good, why doesn’t any of the tool companies renounce their Q/A businesses, and solely market the tools?
Because the FTC would close them down before you could say pyramid. The BUSINESS is products, the tools is SUPPORT.
Q/A can not allow tool profits to be part of the marketing plan - because tool profit is not part of the marketing plan. The marketing plan is: move product, and get other people to help you move product.
Telling people to bury their product in the backyard, is blatantly illegal, and is an example of what happens when the tool business becomes more important than the products business.
I repeat - put the tool business on its own legs, and see how long it lasts. I’ve changed my opinion - it will collapse so fast, the FTC won’t have a chance to close it down.
September 4th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
58mex “so you want to be like Orrin”
no, here is what i would need to do be like Orrin
1. build my ego bigger than my Q business
2a - Hide the Quixtar name as long as possible from new prospects… make them think they are getting into TEAM, and Quixtar is just a supplier
2b Quit appreciating the opportunity that Quixtar/Amway gave me. Start to disrespect them.
3. Think that our group is the most successful mlm organization in the world of quixtar
4. realize that Quixtar is cleaning up its act and b/c i live on the Quixtar edge, this includes me, so i better do something fast.
5. plan a “negotiation” meeting with Quixtar by preparing a Lawsuit and threat of negative PR campaign against Quixtar…. that way if Quixtar says NO to me, I will make them wish they said yes to allowing me to break the 2year non-compete rule that has existed for years.
6. go into the meeting - present my 9point DO OR DIE offer to Quixtar… with my lawyer waiting in the parking lot with 47 page lawsuit and confidential iboai documents that I will make public…. all if Quixtar does not give me my way.
7. as soon as Quixtar doesn’t take my crap… hire ASHTON partners to (as their website says) “position information” to make TEAM look good and Quixtar look bad.
8. including starting freetheibo.com forum to propagate my message and foster loyalty of my downline. Banning all bloggers that gain too much influence or get TEAM ibos to question what I am telling them throught my people.
9. Accuse Quixtar of doing what i hired a PR firm to do - SPIN.
10. Be selfish, motivated by pride and greed.
but thank God, i am not like Orrin so i won’t do this.
jt
September 4th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
(administrator) 1: is it true that 3.4% of sales are not consumed internally? 2: Does Q stop IBOs from reporting tool profits? —————–CUT AND PAISE ————– we all need to lead with these questions until we get some answers.
Conan
September 4th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
Folks: While the PDF is a’coming, you may be able to find it elsewhere.
Conan_78: Would this help?
September 4th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
to jthompson:
So are you saying ALL the men (and women) that left on Aug 9 are all high and mighty “like Orrin” YOU have to remember, Randy, Chuck, Don and all the others left too, are you saying they all were brain washed by Orrin???? I think these men and women are very intelligent and have more inforation as to what is really going on behind Corp. doors, these men and women are quite the opposite of how you describe them. DO YOU EVEN PERSONALLY KNOW ORRIN…thought not.
September 4th, 2007 at 11:27 pm
Wow - what a disappointment this all is. For me, (associated with TEAM), to think I have a choice. Either remain as an IBO; or hope that the TEAM founders have a viable alternative.
Let me ponder this:
If I were to remain as an IBO, I would have what?
1) An Amway “business” - which most of us know is a joke. The average person wants NOTHING to do with Amway! So, there goes the “business” building option. Now I’d be back to a money losing Hobby, trying to believe I could reach any of my dreams and goals. It really wouldn’t take much for Alticor to research how poor of an image Amway has in the real world.
2) I’d be associated with a “business” who makes formal statements like a spoiled child. And I’m supposed to be loyal to them - and “exude” that loyalty in such a manner that others want to join with me? HA HA The official communications have been an embarrassment to a lot of IBO’s, not just those associated with TEAM.
3) Products - some excellent, some good, some okay, and some poor. What’s so different in this qualification than any other “Brand” name? Some are good, others not so good. Yes, I’d definitely miss some products like XS, and Artistry, however I’m sure I’d survive. Most are priced out of their “fair market value”, even at wholesale cost. This really helps to maintain a steady customer base (said sarcastically).
Now, If I chose to terminate my business, I would have what?
1) An excellent Leadership Development Program - to develop a business in…..what?
2) Leadership that stands up for what they believe in, even though it may hurt their “bottom line dollar”.
3) Product - what product? We will have lost our only realistically marketable product, XS.
I certainly won’t “Show a Plan” at this point. Ethically, what business could I show someone signing up with? Quixtar or Amway or nothing?
In my humble opinion (an that of others), Alticor has made a few unwise decisions. Changing back to Amway could be one of the biggest. There was a reason for the name change to Quixtar, remember what that was? A new image perhaps? The other is posting blogs that demean others. What kind of business does that to their business associates? We’re not your children or your employees. This is supposed to be a business to make yourself and your life better - wow it’s done a lot for whoever is writing for you, hasn’t it?
How disappointing to be associated with an organization (Quixtar/Amway/Alticor) that runs like this one has lately.
September 5th, 2007 at 6:08 am
Conan_78:
The above link does not directly answer your question. You may however be interested in the post at the IBO Rebellion blog titled Texas sized win for Team. You can read the court order issued yesterday by a Texas FEDERAL court there as well.
September 5th, 2007 at 7:23 am
I’M VERY LOST ON WHAT GOING ON ONE MINUTE I HEARD THAT IT GOING BACK TO THE NAME AMWAY AND WE HAVE TO DO 500 PV A MONTH TO GET A CHECK AND SO MANY CUSTOMER ALSO I AVE BEEN TOLD BUT IBO AND NOT IBO ARE COST IS TO HIGH I CAN GET THAT SAME PRODUCTS FROM SAM’S CLUBS OR WAL MART FOR THE SAME PRICE SO CAN SOME ONE ANSWER FOR ME THANK U AND GOD BLESS US ALL WE SURE NEED IT
September 5th, 2007 at 9:04 am
#63 Mkay:
If what you’re saying is true, that would be against everything that Amway has stood for. But with all the negative stuff that I’ve seen from Amway lately, I wouldn’t be surprised if they did start selling the product in stores.
Thank you.
September 5th, 2007 at 9:40 am
jthompson # 65
oh pul-l-l-leeeeee-ze !
September 5th, 2007 at 10:09 am
FACTS - LET’S LOOK AT THE FACTS WITH OUT ALL THE FLUFF AND BITTER COMMENTS.
-Quixtar has some good people in their organization.
-Team has some good people on their Team
-Quixtar want’s the best for organization
-Team want’s the best for their organization
-Quixtar does not want anything to do with Team
-Team does not want anything to do with Quixtar
-Quixtar believes products build the teams
-Team believes the educational training system builds the individual
-Quixtar wants to own/control the IBO with rules and regulations.
-Team wants to build the individual into leaders
-Quixtar wants to attack individuals in conflict
-Team wants to address the issus of the conflict.
-Quixtar wants to stay where they are and protect what they have.
-Team wants to be progressive and continue to improve themselves.
From what I can tell the facts show two very different organizations. Being in business for over 30 years it seems simple. When you have customers who no longer wish to associate with your organization, tell them thank you for your past business and wish them good luck. It is bad business to continue to make a public display so ugly that it affects your remaining business.
September 5th, 2007 at 11:22 am
73 Deann
:)
hey but it got your attention didn’t it.
Seriously. Go to http://adatudes.opportunityzone.com/2007/09/04/Brief-Responds-to-Lawsuit.aspx#comments
Remind the blog from Dickie on the web or Quixtar summary of what happenned on Aug9 meeting. Both sides agree to the actual events/words that happenned. Then read Pastor Dickie letter on freetheibo.
Orrin may have past of integrity. Orrin may have future of integrity. But the present (Aug 9 and before/after) does not match.
Do you actually believe that Orrin believes Quixtar is an Illegal Pyramid?
When are you going to realize that the lawsuit/freetheibo was just Orrins backup plan to punch Quixtar in the face if they didn’t allow Orrin/Team to break the rules of non-compete that they have signed and agreed for the past 5 years?
September 5th, 2007 at 11:24 am
68/SAK
I am not writing about the other TEAM ibos that resigned/terminated. Orrin is the main authority within TEAM and the main Leader.
I have old tapes from the 80’s with Randy and Don…. i understand they connected with TEAM to expand their system… more meetings to send people to… bigger functions…. its hard to grow this business if you are part of a “small” IBO team/system.
September 5th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
analogy/summary of TEAM vs QUIXTAR:
a Women in High School is caught cheating on Final Exam (breaks student rules of conduct). Her math teacher catches her about to expell her from school and fail her. She decides to hand out a (prepared) bogus Sexual Harassment lawsuit before the Teacher can make the news public. All attention is diverted from the student trying to be exempt from the rules of conduct that she agreed upon in the student honor code, instead teacher has to defend himself against TROs, lawsuits, etc… attempting to ruin his career forver.
All could have been prevented if She/Student would just follow the rules or drop out of the school quietly. NO. Instead she wants to take all the students with her… lieing about the teachers and school…..
same thing.
September 5th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Update from Orrin’s/Ashton’s freetheibo.com
This is front page in big red colors
“RECENT NEWS:
Quixtar Fails to Refute Allegations That It Operates an an Illegal Pyramid Scheme
Suggests “admission of guilt” by silence”
Ok jthompson has purposely acted childish in some of his blogs but has not been able to stay competitive with freetheibo website by TEAM.
This reminds me of elementary school “I called Johnny a meanie head and he didn’t say anything back so it must be true!!!!”
Plus i like how TEAM files like 15 TROs, lawsuits,complaints, and accusations (throw a lot of mud on the wall and see what sticks) and then jumps on Quixtar for not answering their accusations.
September 5th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
JT#77,
The difference is that we were never breaking any rules of conduct.
Ever.
September 6th, 2007 at 12:27 am
One More week???????
September 6th, 2007 at 1:04 am
#56 CT said, “…just visit Greg Duncans site”
Would you be so kind to post a link, or give a web address to GD’s site.
Thanks!
September 6th, 2007 at 1:24 am
#63 Mkay and
#72 NG
Do you think the Nutrilite line or Artistry line are Wal-Mart kinds of products?
How about the new Simply Nutrilite products?
http://simplynutrilite.quixtar.com/Products/Default.aspx
IMHO I’d say Whole Foods Market (the most expensive grocery store on the planet) is the place you’d find your “amway” products.
http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/
Perhaps the Whole Foods shopper is your audience (both as a customer AND a business owner), not Wal-Mart.
If we can be competitive with Whole Foods, then we are in business. And most of the time, we are.
Just a thought.
September 6th, 2007 at 4:23 am
JThompson #75:
Are you kidding me? You actually believe the account given by Qs attornys over the postings of Chuck Goetschel, Bill Newton, and Ron Simmons? Have you seen Ron Simmons latest post? Here’s a clue for you, I was there personally with one of the fine folks who resigned and was forced to file the lawsuit, well after the published IBOAI statement was published; when several of these folks called and expressed that they were praying TEAM can prevail and the door can be opened for them as well. Now with restraining orders in place (which you claim means nothing) I obviously can’t name names, but spin it any way you want it what I just told you I personally witnessed. I assure you you would be shocked at who some of these are. All you have to do is read Qs answer to preliminary injunction filed in California Sept. 4th, and you can clearly see in those 26 pages they are desperate. Not a word about 3.4%. That number is the only thing that matters on the 12th and the ensuing weeks (probably not months).
September 6th, 2007 at 4:42 am
Jthompson:
Page 11 that you refer to conveniently leaves out the part that Orrins attorney told Mike Mohr he had papers in his pocket where both parties would agree to do nothing for 24 hours, Mike Mohr said he would read it, had another meeting to go to and would call in an hour (see Ron Simmons post and remember that he has an ongoing federal case in Texas NOT JUST A TRO, and common sense would tell you he would never perjure himself under these circumstances). Orrin and the others just wanted the others to have an open dialog, and Q refused, not the other way around. The lawsuit was only filed when three hours went by and Mike Mohr wouldn’t return phone calls. Of course it was prepared well in advance, because Q had made it clear by then it may be necessary (see Ron’s posts as well as Chuck Goetschels). The last thing Orrin or any of the resigning members wanted to do was take legal action, and what Pastor Dickie wrote about this is exactly right.
And how about Mike Mohrs post on this very blog where he said Judge Sullivan’s ruling meant IBOs could not promote or sell TEAM functions when ruling specificly states TEAM could attend functions as long as they didn’t compete. A federal judge in Washington has already ruled (ever heard of precedent?), that BSMs and training system organizations ARE NOT competing mlms, and do not compete with the parent mlm. And Mike Mohr knows this. In my opinion that goes well beyond just misleading. My grandmother would have called it lying.
September 6th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
lawsuit by Team,
No one is forced to file a Lawsuit. TEAM/Orrin has signed/agreed for 4 consecutive years a document that states the 2yr non-compete.
Go try to join another mlm and take Quixtar ibos with you… and see what happens.
EXAMPLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON
I build TEAM business. I sign TEAMs 1yr non-compete contract. I decide to do my own thing and take TEAM ibos with me. TEAM/Orrin do not let me, so I file lawsuit claiming TEAM is an illegal pyramid b/c of pricing (prices are twice the amount for books as amazon.com).
September 6th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
TEAM is an amazing duplication system founded by Orrin Woodward.
if TEAM lasts (i believe chances are 99% that they will be history/defeated and not allowed to break non-compete contracts.)
but if TEAM did last… Orrin has laid out a Pathway To Power for his downline.
I wonder how many of his downline will file a Lawsuit against TEAM to break teams non-compete in the future? If TEAM got rid of their non-compete, it will be fun watching ibos raid the TEAM downline.
Either way, TEAM is doomed for failure!
September 6th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
btw,
Remember you new bloggers…. i was the #1 blogger on freetheibo forum… with 80 posts (5% of total). I read every major document and letter. Since then i have continued to read major writings/propaganda from TEAM.
I have read the lawsuits and TROs. I am up to date.
I am one of the most neutral bloggers on the internet about Amway, why?
- I have been an IBO. I am not an IBO now.
- I have been to 25 functions from multiple LOS
- I am FOR teams/tools/personaldevelopment
- I have the same God, Country, Family… values as team ibos
- I HAVE ZERO FINANCIAL INCENTIVE TO BE FOR ANYONE. I may or may not become an Amway IBO again.
- I have been around other mlms before amway.
- I have been around multi-millionaires since age 18
- My dad is the head trainer of a billion dollar software company
- I have worked in an industry (non-mlm) that is similar to Amway/IBO structure
- I believe in mentorship like TEAM does. But i know people are not perfect.
- I have dreams and goals.
If you have blinders over your eyes and you are following someone passionately that is not named Jesus, you are in for a rude awakening.
Paul said, “Follow me AS I follow Christ”
September 6th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
makingadifference - why is “3.4%” the only thing that matters when the FTC has very clearly stated that the “level of internal consumption” doesn’t matter in determining if something is a pyramid, and that “internal consumption” also may count as a retail sale for their purposes?
Why is “3.4%” the only thing that matters when 3.4% means almost $50,000,000 worth of direct evidence that there IS a market for the products and you CAN retail them at full price to outside customers if you make the effort?
I happened to get a report of what happened on the 9th of August shortly after it happened. I broke the story on my website. And what I heard - and I believe this was not from the corp - was exactly what the lawsuit says. Woodward and Brady threatened a PR war unless they and their downline were released, and they had a lawsuit ready to back up that threat. Some people would call that attempted blackmail. The last few weeks have been 100% consistent with that account. Accusing Quixtar of being an illegal pyramid, multiple TROs in multiple states, websites run by a PR firm, press releases, etc etc. All are consistent with making good on the threat.
Why didn’t Woodward and Brady simply claim that Quixtar had substantially changed the terms of the contract with the name change to Amway and have it judged null and void? If they’d been successful they’d be free to start their competitor MLM immediately. Anyone else who wanted to join the suit could go too.
Instead we have a PR war that is slandering millions of IBOs around the world with baseless accusations that we are doing what TEAM IBOs apparently did. TEAM is claiming in it’s lawsuit that IBOs like myself are buying products because we are “forced” to. TEAM is claiming in it’s lawsuit that IBOs like myself are not retailing products to non-IBO customers. TEAM is claiming that IBOs like myself are enticing people to join an illegal business. And what’s more, TEAM is claiming I’m too stupid to be aware of it.
TEAM is wrong on all counts. *I* buy the products cause I like them and want them. *I* sell the products to customers at a profit. *I* run my business like a business and *I* know exactly what I’m doing and why I’m doing it.
If you want to go to a court and say “I was breaking Quixtar rules and running an illegal pyramid - arrest me”, well go for it, you have my support. But stop accusing me and tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, of IBOs like me of doing what you did. It’s the antithesis of ethical.
September 6th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
This whole mess is ridiculous! Quixtar obviously wants to eliminate the IBO business and sell through giant retailers!!! $22 SHAMPOO WILL BE A REAL HIT AT WALMART! Maybe they can hang a sign overhead that says “premium product pricing”??
September 6th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
#84 makingadifference said, “BSMs and training system organizations ARE NOT competing mlms, and do not compete with the parent mlm.”
Response: The non-complete clause/rule includes ALL direct selling/mlms. It does NOT matter the product line.
This is why the whole BSM business is messed up, IF YOU SET IT UP LIKE AN MLM. And my understanding is that the TEAM’s BSM business IS set up like an MLM.
That’s the problem.
People are focusing on the (b) part of the rule. But look at the (a) part:
6.5.1. For purposes of this Rule 6.5., “Compete” means to own, manage, operate, consult for, be employed by, or participate as an independent distributor in (a) any other direct sales program using a multilevel or “network” marketing structure, or (b) any other enterprise that markets, through independent distributors, products or services functionally interchangeable with those offered or marketed by the Corporation.
September 6th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
Is quixtar/amway really going into retail stores?
September 7th, 2007 at 12:23 am
I write this to those who have issues with the tool profits, and believe the Team organization is as guilty as anybody in non-disclosure.
As a Team ibo, I’ve had a fair understanding of the tool profits and profit sharing plan since day one. The Team has been consistently transparent to this aspect of the business and has even made efforts with the corporation to change their policies toward this information.
To those of you who read the criticisms concerning tool profits, or believe the Dateline spot applies to all organizations affiliated with Q/A, I enourage you to get the facts. You’ll feel much better.
September 7th, 2007 at 9:45 am
Bridget,
The point is not to be competitive with JUST the top of the line products (you mentioned wholefoodsmarket), the point is to be competitive with the ENTIRE market. When we can cut prices to at or below Wal-Mart’s, we will go mainstream. Q isn’t willing to do that, and it is keeping volume from flowing to anybody except IBO’s.
Wholefoodsmarket is not a place I’d shop at because I can get my stuff (high quality stuff) at my local Meijer. Why would I shop at wholefoodsmarket when I’m more concerned about my cash than I am about the best meat in the world? This is the thinking process almost everybody we talk to goes through. Why would we buy through this business if it’s more expensive than the local store for the EXACT same products by the way!? Try to find a store that sells Raisin Bran for as much as Q does! Add shipping on top of that, and that is NOT even close to competitive. I also site Q’s poor quality deoderant. I could go on and on… So, why would a person buy through us? Also, why would you join a business with products that don’t compete with the majority of the market place. What is everybody’s problem with having some of these awesome products (like SA8), but also having some other great PRICED products. This would make Q (excuse me, they are becoming Amway now), the best business in the world! Why is everybody on Q’s side opposed to that? Why can’t we have both!? Lol… OK, I’m done ranting now. Cheers!
Oh, one more thing, can anybody confirm or deny that Amway is going to do business with Wal-Mart now? I keep hearing that all over the place.
September 7th, 2007 at 10:08 am
TEAM and Orrin (those in authority) are embarassing their names with a PR war against Quixtar. This PR war is one of the few promises that TEAM has kept, making due on their threat/blackmail.
http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/index.php/content/view/6772/90/lang,en/
The sad part is that Orrin/TEAM is hiding out like Osama Bin Laden, and using his fanatical followers to do his dirty work of PR slandering.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
91josh - go to www.thetruthaboutamway.com and click on “myths” and I will get the moderator to expand this list to cover some of the new ones that TEAM has added.
Make a list of the myths/questions and ask your Quixtar Sales Advisor.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
93drew,
You build your own 6billion American Super Success Story and then you can tell them that they are failing.
Walmart and Quixtar are not competitors - they are playing different sports/industries/games.
TEAM ibos have obviously never been educated about Amway products, about Amway Corp, and about the business.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
#93 Drew,
1) I shop at Whole Foods Market.
2) I’m pleased as punch that I have access to high-quality products such as Nutrilte and Artistry.
3) Considering that WFM did $5.6 BILLION dollars in sales last year, we can safely say that others are shopping there too. Go talk to THOSE people about the products and/or about the business opportunity.
4) Aliticor/Amway/Quixtar will never be mainstream. Just like being a millionaire will never be mainstream.
5) We offer over 1,000 products. Find the ones that work for you.
–Nutrilte Daily at 12.5 cents a day, an alternative to Double X;
–Body Blends at $8.50 and $10, an alternative to Artistry.
–LOC products, always less expensive than the competitors (b/c we add our own water, which cuts down on the extraordinary shipping costs),
–New Simply Nutrilite’s Twist Tubes. Add your own water and pay 55 cents rather than $1.25 for a Sports Drink.
And the list goes on, and on, and on.
6) If you don’t find what you like, THEN DON’T BUY IT. If enough people don’t buy the things that they don’t find any/enough value in, then the product will be discontinued, ala XS Protein Pudding.
7) Alticor/Amway/Quixtar’s intention is never to be like Wal-Mart.
http://adatudes.opportunityzone.com/2007/08/31/Not-WalMart-and-Never-Want-to-Be.aspx
Go join Avon if that’s what you are looking for.
Good luck to you in whatever endeavor you choose to partake.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
JT#77,
Feel free to post any rules of conduct that TEAM has broken. Also, feel free to give examples of this smear campaign you claim that TEAM is doing. Outside of the lawsuit, which by nature can’t really be complementary, TEAM has not done a huge PR junket. Q* has.
But I defy you to show where TEAM has been overly critical or sarcastic…in or out of court. We certainly can see that kind of mudslinging by Q*.
September 7th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
88 - PR Campaign,
“I happened to get a report of what happened on the 9th of August shortly after it happened. I broke the story on my website. And what I heard - and I believe this was not from the corp - was exactly what the lawsuit says. Woodward and Brady threatened a PR war unless they and their downline were released, and they had a lawsuit ready to back up that threat. Some people would call that attempted blackmail. The last few weeks have been 100% consistent with that account. Accusing Quixtar of being an illegal pyramid, multiple TROs in multiple states, websites run by a PR firm, press releases, etc etc. All are consistent with making good on the threat.”
This is what I thought when i first read the TEAM Lawsuit on their website around Aug15. I laughed when i read the lawsuit b/c it seemed so unprofessional… it was written to be understandable as Negative Quixtar info, it was not written to win a case… at least i hope not, if so they need a new lawyer.
ex: quoting emails sent to quixtar that didn’t even relate to the lawsuit issue
September 7th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
98 Jerad,
example of rule of conduct broken - (the biggest being the one they are trying to break, get out of a noncompete they signed)
Rule # 4.14, 4.14.1, 4.27, 4.8, 6.5, 6.53 among others. These are rules Orrin/others signed and agreed upon.
“outside a lawsuit”…… not a good way to start a sentence stating TEAM has not done negative PR against Quixtar.
- web sites
- web forum
- web blogs
- tv stations
- web blogging on Q sites
- lawsuits
- TROs
TEAM could have kept everything quiet, not hire a PR firm, not post everything online, etc….
September 7th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
93/97 - Whole Foods Market; Quixtar; Pricing
Drew/Bridgett,
I worked for Whole Foods Market in 1999-2000 when i was 19-20 years age.
The Price is SIGNIFICANTLY higher at regular grocery stores than natural health stores like Whole Foods.
The cost of eating inorganic, processed, preservative filled, artificial, and cheap quality foods is Premature DEATH.
If you don’t eat natural healthy foods now… you will PAY for it later with medical bills, drugs, doctors, etc… and the costs are OUTRAGEOUS.
Quixtar is like a whole foods market; Walmart is like a Dollar Grocery Store.
Don’t compare POOR QUALITY PRODUCT prices w/ HIGH QUALITY PRODUCT prices.
besides a long, energetic, and dis-ease free life… eat natural health foods makes your skin clear and colorful, and makes you look good!
Go to discount store, buy your rommen noodles, and enjoy ugliness
do a google search on words like “natural foods, raw, organic, acid/alkaline, etc…”
Read books by Jack Lalanne, Dr. Robert Young, Paul Bragg, Dr. Don Colbert, Dr. Kellogg, Dr. Tildin, Jordan Rubin, etc…
(now i don’t support some of the political views of WFM….)
September 7th, 2007 at 6:04 pm
Criticism vs Advice
“Who should i listen to?”
One of the primary differences btwn a critic and friendly advice is… that a critic has no solution, only talks problems.
Orrin Woodward, and TEAM ibos can criticize Amway right now…. but truth is they have no alternative. What other mlm do they recommend over Amway? What is better?
TEAM loves Walmart but Walmart is not an mlm.
TEAM has not build a 6 billion dollar networking company with 50 year track record or longer with Nutrilite.
TEAM has not had its leaders elected TWICE to be Chairman of the United States Chamber of Commerce.
If you listen to TEAM, what will you gain but a new habit of complaining.
TEAM is not an independent business. The only TEAM customers are Quixtar IBOS.
Without Amway, TEAM is NOTHING! NOTHING! Nada!
September 7th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
NON-COMPETES
Why not void it?
1. doesn’t TEAM have a 1yr non-compete? If so its totally hypocritical of TEAM to want to void Amways non-compete.
2. B/c (judging by observation from Aug10 to current) TEAM is a System of Manipulation. I don’t want TEAM leaders anywhere close to my friends in Amway/Quixtar business. Orrin and others will lie and do anything to get their way, and if you don’t let them walk all over you, they will file unlimited lawsuits and try to ruin your reputaion.
3. Bo Short and Team in Focus Experience (My first function (not ibo yet) in 2001 was at the first ever TIF function in Nashville). If you don’t know the story, they failed, Bo Short then goes on Dateline and internet to promote his new mlm (which failed) and trys to raid Quixtar of its IBO army.
4. Orrin, Florence, Wilson, etc… all the TEAM Leaders… they have SIGNED and AGREED (w/o complaint) with the non-compete rules in 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007.
5. the LOS - read the quixtar docs for more info. B/c of Quixtars computers and systems they have developed for years, TEAM has access to information that would create unfair competition from another mlm
6. You can’t let a bullie push you around and allow him to break the rules b/c of threats of non-stop PR campaign
7. b/c if TEAM is allowed to break the rules via Leverage of Lawsuits and PR slander…. then other IBOs will follow in their footsteps of unethical childish behaviour… and ruin the business
JT - very neutral observer
I am not an ibo
I have been an ibo & at 25+ functions
I have built relationships with many diamonds
I DO believe in personal development like TEAM does.
I have experience with other mlm companies and have read over 20 books on mlm by age 19 (inspired by my moms mlm business w/ Mark Victor Hansen)
I have zero financial incentive to support any side.
September 7th, 2007 at 9:30 pm
JT#100,
TEAM has not broken any of those rules of conduct. What makes anybody think they have outside of Q* false accusations? None. What evidence do they have? None. How do I know? Because they are making these claims about me! I would certainly know if I was guilty!
Sure, Tex seems to think that he has some sort of first hand knowledge about this. But the two things that I haven’t seem at all the meetings I’ve been to is…
1) The rule violations Tex claims to have reported.
2) Tex.
And you also have a very loose definition of a PR smear campaign. The TRO’s were needed to protect my business from Q. That wasn’t part of a PR attack. It was to protect TEAM. I’ve not seen them go out of thier way to find a camera and talk smack.
The bloggers tend to be more open on TEAM sites than on Q’s sites. And please, can you really compair blogs from Q and blogs from TEAM LEADERS? The leaders have been very respectful.
September 7th, 2007 at 11:03 pm
JT….
“JT - very neutral observer”
“I am not an ibo”
very neutral observer ? yeah, right ! been sniffing a little too much LOC, haven’t ya ?
since you are NOT an ibo, why don’t you leave the discussion to those whom it affects… IBOs !
September 8th, 2007 at 12:25 am
From post #75 on their have been around 4159 words posted on this blog. JThompson has posted 2088 of them. Almost 50% of total posting is from JThompson.
I don’t mean to be disrespectful to Thompson, but when I compare the quality of his posts, facts, and opinions, with those of people like Robert Dickie, Randy Haugen, and Ron Simmons, on freetheibo; Thompson is way out of his league basing his authority to speak on what his mom did and listing the books he’s read.
His quantity can’t make up for the lack of quality.
Mr. Moderator, please don’t let one blogger grandstand with such long repeated posts.
September 8th, 2007 at 1:51 am
I am stunned at the venom being poured out on my business over at the freetheibo thingy.
They (Ashton Partners) call my business illegal. I am a Quixtar IBO. Ashton has the term “pyramid scheme” on their main webpage along with A/Q’s name.
When they(Ashton and Woodard/Brady) put that term on there, they better hope that those lawsuit fall their way. When the courts rule that Amway is not a pyramid scheme, they should run for cover.
I smell mega-defamation lawsuits that can be filed. Not only by A/Q, but by the training orgs as well for loss of biz due to defamation.
Additionally,there are a number of so-called TEAM IBO’s who admit to not following their contracts. It appears that they perverted the biz opportunity into an illegal scheme, by their own admissions. Why would you admit to participating in a pyramid? How could you possibly justify offering it prospects?
I hope those folks have very deep pockets.
September 8th, 2007 at 10:54 am
JTHOMPSON QUOTES:
“I am one of the most neutral bloggers on the internet about Amway.”
“i was the #1 blogger on freetheibo forum… with 80 posts - 5% of total. I rea