Categories
- Alticor (88)
- Access Business Group (6)
- Amway (63)
- Quixtar (41)
- Amway Arena (3)
- eCoupled (3)
- Founders (1)
- Fulton Innovation (3)
- Grand Rapids (8)
- Hotels (5)
- Innovation (4)
- JW Marriott Grand Rapids (5)
- Michigan (10)
- Michigan Governor's Race (23)
- Miscellaneous (12)
- Product Lines (7)
- Sponsorships (2)
- Sports (1)
- Transformation (26)
Archives
Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
August 24th, 2007 @ 12:22 pm ET…
Order, from the court
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
Quixtar and our IBOs won in court today.
Three times.
The court told Orrin Woodward and the other TEAM members that we terminated last week that they cannot ignore contracts.
The court told him that he could not help himself to confidential information from our company and the trade organization that has suspended them.
The court told him that our rules matter.
The court did not find merit in Mr. Woodward’s arguments that rules do not apply to him. And obviously, we could not agree more.
We are happy to stand up for playing by the rules. We are happy to stand up for ethical business dealings. We are proud to stand up for every IBO in the world who believes in those things, too.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
August 24th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
Not suprised.
August 24th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Nice touch: “our IBOs”.
August 24th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
Dearest Amway/Quixtar,
Looking foward to receiving your next ultimatum email. Can’t wait to be told what to do AGAIN.
August 24th, 2007 at 1:00 pm
Suddenly the crowd of ibos need not look on anymore, just run…..run for your lives!!!!!
August 24th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Wow. Quix you did a great thing for your Employees, er.. I mean Property.. doah, assets? Field Sales Agents? Oh what did you call us when I signed up..
*thinking*
*thinking*
Oh yeah, Independent Business Owner. Somehow I dont feel that I am. I have a job, and a boss. I do not need another.
/waiting to see how September 12 pans out.
August 24th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
well orrin only has millions upon millions of dollars after the 8 years of BS he put people through. Im sure hes going to fly to flordia and head out on his yacht and all the lone TEAM members are going to get screwed.
August 24th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Slavery was outlawed sometime ago. It doesn’t matter if Quixtar/Amway wins a few battles in court. Their doors will close soon, so they will know no victory in the end.
August 24th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
We can still leave your Amway company right? I am not the property of you!!! This is just a little bump in the road and we will overcome this. Orrin will not let us down. I know it.
August 24th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Thank you for keeping the tone of this posting civil and respectful, even when you could crow about three back-to-back wins in court, and your earlier sense of anger at betrayal by the tone and false claims in the original “Complaint” filed in California.
Interesting that the Court one of the above rulings noted the explicit connection between Quixtar’s concerns over aspects of TEAM’s training methods and the significant liability for all IBOs and Quixtar pending from Federal regulator agencies which ensue if Quixtar did not act. This is part of the basis of the Complaint against Quixtar in the UK — that they had the ability to correct wrong training methods and didn’t act there as quickly as they perhaps should have.
ALTICOR/QUIXTAR, thank you for acting responsibly!!!
August 24th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
I’m calling on all of my other TEAM-mates to join my family in writing all of the Partner Stores and letting them know of your intention of boycotting their businesses until they drop any and all links they have with Q.
See you all on the other side of the fence, where the grass is greener…
August 24th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
“Oh yeah, Independent Business Owner. Somehow I dont feel that I am. I have a job, and a boss. I do not need another.”
You signed a CONTRACT with Quixtar, as a distributor. Not unlike CONTRACTS other distribution companies sign with their suppliers.
If you didn’t agree with the terms, then why did you sign it?
August 24th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
To MLM nightmare:
The TEAM members are getting ’screwed’ by Amway, not Orrin. What we signed up for is not what the business plan is anymore. Our leaders had enough guts to stand up against the nightmarish changes.
Instructions for the rest:
1. Hurry up and get your case discounts on LOC, SA8, and Double X before it’s too late.
2. Buy some shelves for you basement and garage.
3. Place your discounted Amway inventory on the shelves
4. Start Selling!!
As a bonus you can get training up by Rich DeVos on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCYWAKJ256w
August 24th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Thank You Alticor for the civil post.
Yes, rules and contracts do matter.
Thank You for protecting the “systems” that do play by the rules.
August 24th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
I’m not an IBO, but this situation is no different than the banking industry or any other industry that has competition. I’m sure Mary Kay, Avon and other large MLM organizations would have done the same to protect their organization as well.
If you are a lender at a bank, you sign a non-compete agreement that keeps you from having contact with your customers for at least a year. Why is that? Well, because the bank you left doesn’t want to loose the business of those customer because of your client/lender relationship.
I know Quixtar/Alticor to be reputable organization. They just happen to have an industry that deal with “PEOPLE” in far bigger way than other legitamate companies like Walmart, Meijer, Steelcase and etc. Because of the nature of this buisness, they are always going to encounter people who want to take an opportunity that backed by business rules and ethics and twist it to their advantage like Orin Woodward did.
He made money not by retailing, but by duping half of you dummies into spening more money or tapes and what not than what you should have been making by selling the products. If you are a member of TEAM, wake up. Do you think Orin is going to really reach back to all of his TEAM members, NOT!
He’s going to continue to pursure a lawsuit for his to save his own but b/c in the end he doesn’t even know most of you. He know’s himself, his family and his own financial situation. This is called the TRUTH, something that some of you can’t handle.
Way to go Quixtar/Alticor. Actions speak louder than words and your proved that you are not going to allow “people” to run their business unethically as long as their associated with Quixtar/Alticor.
August 24th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
I am actually in the middle of writing this don’t know how many people out the are thinking the same way I am but 6 months isn’t that long in the skeem of things. Good luck with the new name.
Dear Quixtar/Amway,
Please be advised that as of today August 24, 2007 I am issuing my resignation as a Quixtar IBO.
First with the announcement of the pending name change to Amway corp. I will not be affiliated with a company whose name breeds anger and distrust. In my experience there when presenting the Quixtar business to a prospect eighty percent of their first comments were, “if it has anything to do with Amway don’t even talk to me.”
I personally don’t have any confidence in the Amway name and would not have become an IBO if the name of the distribution company were Amway. At least with the name Quixtar I could distance myself from the name Amway as a sister company.
Product and price at first glance need to be recognized as competitive. Except for a few products such as XS Energy Drinks the prices are not seen from the common level as price competitive. Put your products on the shelves next to competitive product in the average store and see what the percent of purchase would be with the existing prices.
August 24th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Yes, the TEAM “system” is a scam.
And to dave no one buys LOC, SA8 or double X that isnt involved with quixtar. Its low quality products at the same price (Or more) as the rest.
August 24th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
WOW…it’s amazing to read these posts by Team IBOs. If anyone misled you, it was Orrin. You’ve come to believe everything he says and now it’s coming back to haunt you. Be careful who you listen to and who you “follow”.
Blue suit, red tie…sounds like a cult organization to me.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
It’s a good day for all IBOs and Systems that play by the rules.
There’s a lot of hollering from team IBOs here, but I suppose that’s to be expected. Thanks for posting the good news!
August 24th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
It is over! That sure was Quick!
IBOS will be just fine. At my last two opens, we are saying the Amway name and are #’s are phenomenal.
TEAM vs. Quixtar - was not a negative at all. Now IBOS building a business in partnership with Amway/Quixtar ought to have massively increased belief in the stability of their partner/supplier.
freetheibo forum deleted bloggers that did not agree with the message they were trying to get their ibos to believe in.
TEAM ibos - get mad… but after you express yourself, you have two choices.
1. You can start more stupid anti-amway websites and become another disgruntled ibo that makes no real difference with the rest of their lives
OR
2. You can stay with Quixtar (and allign with a team that is just as successful, but without breaking Q rules) or seek another opportunity/path… set goals, keep dreaming, LEARN from this experience, and be better, smarter, and stronger in the future.
jthompson
August 24th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Response to post #10. I was waiting for something like this to come from a TEAM member. A boycott…. nice (sarcasm by the way to those on the system). It seems to me that the trashing of this “tyrannical” corporation has become a pasttime to you all, and yet you still register IBO’s into Quixtar (an illegal pyramid to you). MAKE UP YOUR MINDS if that is possible since you have been systemitized and cannot form an intelligent opinion of your own. I was told that the grass is greener over a septic tank. Sounds like your downline may be in a world of ________.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
11#
When I signed on, I was free to build my business how I wish, attend any instructional or motivational seminar, read any book that I “thought” (yes I’m still allowed to do that) I could. AND recommend that to my downline. In the new QBOB it says that I am still allowed, yeah right.
If Michael Dell wants to do another seminar on E-Commerce, do I need to contact the corp for permission? That does not sound like freedom to me.
Secondly, I overheard a Quixtar IBO open meeting last night, and I quote “You dont need to sell anything, you consume or use products from your own busines and teach others to do the same.”
How is that any different that what TEAM is being accused of? I nearly flipped out of my chair. That was in East Lansing last night, off US 127, you know who you are and where the place is.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
Thanks Alticor.
An0801: well said.
MLM sucks: not even going to waste my time.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Everyone seems to be missing the point on the whole we signed a contract to Quixtar to follow their rules argument.
Yes, I did. And so far I do not believe I have broken any of those rules.
However come September 1st a lot of rules and methods of doing business are changing. I did not sign on for that. So yes I think that if the entire game is changing we should be given the option to continue or not without restriction. And I do not believe it is correct or ethical to send out ultimatum e-mails causing us to pledge our allegiance in return for our annual bonuses being held ransom.
To those who wish to stay on and change to the new way of doing business, I wish you luck. I do however wish that you had all of the details before making that decision, but full disclosure of those details is part of the legal maneuvering going on. To those who wish to leave and pursue income in another venture, I wish you luck as well. Hopefully a jury of our peers will see through to allow us to do just that.
And to those on both sides of the fence please have the wisdom to cut through the slander and school-yard talk that occurs on this and other blogs and see the facts so you can make an informed decision whatever that may be.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
cult,
Is McDonalds a cult because they wear the same looking uniform that helps them put forth a positive professional look.
how many times would you go back to a doctor if he walked in to do an examination with holes in his\her jeans and stains on his t-shirt.
A professional uniform is all it is.
Dictionary.com says a cult is:
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
Well this is not a VICTORY! It is a big lose for Q/A… All you Q/A supporters What happens when you HIT a bee hive with a stick(this judge is a judge working in Q country) Billllllion $ Q/a Country. Come on this is a sad state of afairs did you expect any fair play. NO this is about $ and BIG $ at that. Get your eyes open the real battle is in FED court in CA on the 12-13th of Sept. Read CA. law on Non-Compete… Google it (California law on Non compete) This is the real DEAL FOLKS.
Labor law clearly states even if a company does not want you to compete with them they can have you sign something but can NOT prevent anyone from earning a living as the see fit! IBO’s On TEAM i’m not one of you but you will see you will have your day in court and as I live in CA and have been witness to MLM’s Trying to enforce this here and no Chance!!
Stay together TEAM
Your future is bright!
August 24th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
This gets more comical every day.
“We are happy to stand up for playing by the rules. We are happy to stand up for ethical business dealings. We are proud to stand up for every IBO in the world who believes in those things, too.”
The corporation has known the rules weren’t being followed for many years and have done nothing. They have known about tool abuses for years and done nothing. The high level pins have known about the abuses and profited from them also for years at the expense of the lower level IBOs.
There is no playing by the rules or ethical behavior in any of this.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
As someone who was approcahed by Amway several years ago and didn’t sign up for it, it appears to me that things never change. I was recently approached to join the TEAM. All I can say is the spin that is used has not changed to attempt to get you to sign up. (e.g. I am in business and would like to have someone come talk to you about it, but I can’t answer any questions right now that you may have)
This court case seems to have 8 sides to its story instead of the usual 3 or 4 we are all used to.
That being said, I have no interest in touching either entity with a 10 foot pole or a 50ft one for that matter. It seems like all these organizations do is tell everyone to “obey” upline instead of allowing the individual thought process to take place.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Contract law must be upheld, and TEAM leaders should keep their contracts.
Likewise, if TEAM leaders are so virtuous, they shouldn’t have revealed confidential and privileged information through their lawsuit and blog. True leaders wouldn’t do that, but con men would.
Also, Quixtar is taking real quantifiable action to improve the business for ALL pin levels. Quixtar is far from perfect, but they are moving in the right direction, unlike former TEAM leaders.
And lastly, to TEAM leaders: if you do the crime, you better be willing to do the time (6 months in this case).
August 24th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
#20 i actually agree.
Not all TEAM ibos are like this so their boycott would fail miserably.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
If you talk to Leaders within other IBO organizations who are just as big as TEAM was, they are not suprised that TEAM Leaders got thrown out of Quixtar.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
>>> Craig says: If you didn’t agree with the terms, then why did you sign it?
August 24th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
I am so pleased to have some official notification on the court proceedings. Our systems our critical to building our businesses, but none of us should be violating the rules of conduct, that we all agreed to. Yes rules change over time, but the prinicples we build our business on do not. TEAM members, don’t give up on your dreams, but you must learn new ways to build. Our team did a lot of depth building recently as well and it has not proven to be very profitable…the old one leg issue. Time to change, again…
thanks quixtar/amway, I am proud to show our business plan and focus on my future.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:44 pm
What I hate to see is decisions that can impact a family for decades being made based on the cult-like loyalty to Orrin Woodward. I have heard several different people suggest that TEAM likes to say something along the lines of “discrimination is the enemy of duplication”. We are not talking about racial or sexual discrimination, but rather independent thinking, or the ability to discriminate against bad ideas. In other words following someone to the point where your personal judgment and clear thinking are clouded. That is a scary position to place yourself and your family in.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:44 pm
The problem with people in the TEAM is they are told not to think for themselvs. They teach that you should only listen to those that have success and mimic them. This leads to a cult like group of zombies that can neither think for themselfs or even form a valid opinion. I feel sorry for all of those team members brainwashed. You got screwed, accept it. Also I couldnt be happier that “system” was considred illegal. Its 175$ a month for a bunch of BS that you have already heard before. I spent a month on that and came to my senses, you should too.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
To post #20, that must be one heck of a leak in your septic tank if your grass gets greener over it… I’d have that checked if I was you, your most likely breathing in the fumes if your believing the bull that Alticor is throwing at you.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Money Talks and many big corporations such as Amway have enough money to buy off even the Judges. Why do you think Quixtar filed their restraining order in Michigan and Orin filed his lawsuit in California? They probably send bonus checks to the local Judge and eat lunch with him on a regular basis. What was proved in court today was that good doesn’t always prevail over evil. So now you have to decide for yourself. Evil -vs- Good. Goats -vs- Sheep. Amway -vs- Team Wish side do you plan to be on? I quess we will all find out in six months how many stay and how many leave?
August 24th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Time for Orrin and his crew to go and get jobs again!
August 24th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
THE TEAM STANDS UNITED!!!
This will all end soon, and TEAM will come out on top. What Quixtar fails to understand is that the TEAM is not like their corporate structure. Each of us are leaders, right down to the 1000 pin. Either join us, or watch…
THE CONSUMER REBELLION!!!!!!!!!!
August 24th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
I’m sure Kresge Corporation had some SHORT-TERM victories as they tried to compete against what Sam Walton…
Let’s see where things are when TEAM reaches 1 Million Independent Business Owners.
August 24th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
When the majority of an organization (outside of a job where you have the freedom to choose your clothes) wears the same outfit (blue suit & red tie)…that gives the impression of cult to me.
I’m all for professional dress…but take a step back and look at yourselves.
August 24th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
tO # 33 ( “discrimination is the enemy of duplication”)the correct term is “DISCRETION is the enemy of duplication”
Did anyone else notice that Q DID get ruled against in states OTHER than “Q country ” ?
wonder what will happen in a “free thinking ”
( since that is so encouraged by all teams other than TEAM ) state like California, where the non compete laws are a bit different ?
personally, I know from having owned retail businesses for almost 20 years, that a non compete is completely unenforcable in the great state of Arkansas…we don’t even have a right to work law..unions have never made any inroads here…everywhere is NOT “Q country ”
and that is irregardless of WHAT kind of contract you signed…a no compete is a joke here
August 24th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
It is obviuos many of the comments above were made by folks who did not read any of the litigation. Just like the “aura” we’ve been fighting for years, people throw their uneducated opinions out left and right. Perhaps a good read of the “facts” prior to spouting. Even sounds like a few folks may be showing jealousy. Even if Orrin and Team leadership never get anywhere with this, something good is destined to come of it. The “confidential” and etc info that Q/A is upset about is the TRUTH that there is piles of money in the tool “system” side of the business. Q/A is totally against anyone generating income there except the big pins. Doesn’t that bother any of you? As soon as someone huge decides to start sharing the wealth, they’re axed. I wonder why? Why is having a transparent system wrong? Only the system organizations that hide that information from their groups are allowed to operate?
Doesn’t it bother anyone that these same leaders were representing IBO’s on the IBOAI board for years and years. Communicating with Q/A regularly. The very board that is suppose to represent you all to the corp. Your voices to be heard.
My organization spent considerable time “waiting” for approval from Q/A to begin using TEAM meetings, tools etc to build our business. 5 weeks after being allowed to begin, our leadership is axed. Why did they waste their and our time approving our move. Why not the suggestion that we maybe don’t move. Is there a faster way to stop momentum, and destroy belief than that?
Perhaps a good read of the new Q/A rules and operational changes too. I bet alot of IBO’s will be very surprised to actually see the details of the new changes.
Or not, maybe just keep blogging your uneducated opinions and furthering the clouded stigma that surrounds our industry.
Ridiculous
August 24th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
# 36
Goats Vs. Sheep ?
when was that ever an epic struggle?
August 24th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Post #35
Where was it written that I believed everything that Alticor said? You said the grass was greener on the side of the fence where you are going, by the way. Is it part of your systematic approach (CD’s et al for those of you on the system) to everyone that questions what the TEAM does negatively by just trashing them? If you are still an IBO are you planning to send your checks from Quixtar back…starting next month? I doubt that very seriously. Please answer me this ……why does your Organization keep registering IBO’s in what you and your leaders call an “illegal pyramid”? Rather simple questions, don’t you think? Oh my God, I just asked “dont you think” to a TEAM member buried in the system…wait until I tell that to my business partners. aaahahahahahahahaha.
August 24th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Give me a break Max. The dress attire is simply the advice from leadership books long before quixtar advising the most relatable look.
In a cult, people do what they’re told. If you have a group, you know that aint happening. hehe
August 24th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Interesting discussion on non-compete/non-raiding laws in California. Explains why TEAM quickly ran to California with their lawsuit. Looks to me TEAM doesn’t have a chance, even in Arnold Country:
http://www.andersenalumni.net/%5CCalifornia%20Non-Compete%20Agreements.pdf
August 24th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
This will definitely have an impact on the pending class-action filed in California. The judge in this case even said in one of the judgments that he based his decision partly on the merits of whether or not the class action will go TEAM’s way.
TEAM is no longer able to sell their support materials and their leadership is gone, I’d say TEAM is no more. But what about all the other training organizations using the Quixtar business? Are they going to be forced out as well?
August 24th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Max #40:
The blue suit, white shirt, and red tie idea came from a book called Presentations Plus. This is one of the top presentations and persuasion books out there. Inside that book is a study done on dress and it was found that the blue suit, white shirt, and red tie combination was the most relatable.
My simple questions to all of the IBOs that are not affiliated with TEAM:
1. Why would someone that the company supported and actually endorsed all of the sudden be terminated?
2. Don’t you think the “Jay Factor” is a bad thing? Why are you against the guys that are trying to get that changed?
3. If you don’t think that TEAM’s style of building was good, why has it been leading the pack for the last 7 or 8 years?
4. Why would other HUGE leaders in the business resign along side Woodward and Brady if there wasn’t a problem?
5. How come IBOs keep stating that they have no problem retailing their products when facts show that only 3-4% of sales are to customers?
These recent lawsuits are only the beginning. The big lawsuit begins on the 12th of September. Quixtar is going to have a hard time winning this one. At the very least, TEAM will be allowed out of the non-compete clause. This is all we need.
August 24th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Tex #46:
How do you come to the conclusion that TEAM doesn’t even have a chance out there? Any warrants to your claims?
August 24th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
This just reinforces, yet AGAIN, why I will have nothing to do with Quixtar/Alticor/Amway/TEAM ever again. It took 13 yrs for Orrin to finally make the decision that he was unhappy with the way Quixtar set things up, and yet it also took Quixtar 13 yrs to “figure out” that Orrin was not “following the rules.”
I ASK YOU: how much $money$ did Orrin & Quixtar make during their 13 yr long passionate love affair??? And now that the relationship is over, the IBOs have to choose sides like children in a divorce. NO THANKS.
August 24th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Clint,
1. Because they broke the rules. When Quixtar found out, they offered to help them get back on track. TEAM refused. TEAM was terminated.
2. The “J Factor” is the simple markup any product distribution model has, nothing unique to A/Q.
3. It’s easy to lead the pack when you’re breaking the rules. Just ask Enron, for example.
4. Because they are all part of TEAM. And not very smart, just like the TEAM “leadership”.
5. Because most tool systems, including TEAM, spend so much time on the system in order to make the big bucks, there isn’t enough time left to conduct retail efforts. Assuming the tools tools are priced properly (which isn’t true, they are too high), this is the way to maximize profit for the upline. The retail becomes “collateral damage”.
Don’t count on it. Read the pdf in #46, above. Even if TEAM wins, Quixtar will appeal to the Federal level, and it would probably be overturned/reversed. 5.
August 24th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
#25 You are right, what out come did we expect in a Michigan Court. That’s like a Baptist being held for trial in Vatican City…Hello, we will have to wait for the Federal Court hearing.
August 24th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
How can the Team & Associates call Quixtar/Amway an illegal pyramid after many years of getting substantial incomes from them. I find this troublesome.
August 24th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Just because terminating someones Independent business cause they don’t renounce Team is legal doesn’t make it ethical or good for business.
Months before all this Jim Payne was shown Team approach and had no problem with any of it.
This is one battle of a war. And Quixtar/Alticor has much more to lose than anyone, because of that and the very good chance of losing in CA, expect them to be making as big a deal out of this as possible, which is exactly what they are doing.
And lastly Woodward, Brady and the rest of them resigned their Business because they didn’t believe in the direction the company was going. They are “fired” IBO’s for bad business practices. They didn’t get thrown off the boat, they jumped off.
August 24th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Hello Bob? This is Jake, I wanted to come over and talk to you about my Amway business. CLICK. Bob? Bob? … are you there?
August 24th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
Clint #49,
I read parts of the document I provided and came to the conclusion they picked the only state they have a chance, but it is still very slim. Have you read it?
BillyB,
They claim Quixtar’s prices gradually became too high. They will have to prove this in court.
August 24th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Victory against deception, halleujah!
August 24th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Example of LACK of personal integrity by Woodward
“The agreement entered into was written and signed by each of the defendants. It specifically required that defendants “keep in confidence all Confidential Information” to which they gained knowledge and also required them to agree “not to make any use whatsoever of Confidential Information except for the purpose specified” therein.”
His own forum defined integrity…. when you give your word and then break it, that is not integrity.
August 24th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
Tex #51
1. Quixtar has known about how TEAM operates since the beginning. They only terminated them after Orrin and Chris went to them wanting them to change their prices or they were out.
2. It is a unique markup in that it happens before the wholesale cost and goes directly to one family. Markup of that percentage usually happens when retailed…not before it’s supposed to be retailed.
3. Enron is a terrible analogy to use in this case. If you look at many of the rules, what TEAM did (use their own BSMs which were approved by quixtar), it is specifically allowed in the rules of conduct.
4. They are not all apart of TEAM. Some of them have been in the business since the 70s…way before TEAM. Legacy and 5K just recently joined with TEAM because it is doing the best out of all of the quixtar businesses.
5. Be careful what you say here. Using alticor’s claims that TEAM only represents 15%, it cannot possibly be because of team that the other 85% can’t retail.
I guess we’ll see in the next year or two how the class action suit pans out.
August 24th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
Looks like the big bad Alticor is scared again…
August 24th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
This claim that total “retail” (ie. non-IBO sales) is only 3.4% is intriguing. From another post, this 3.4% is based on registered online Customers. However, most of the Customer sales I make are directly to a customer, out of the stock I’ve ordered to myself as part of my monthly order. I wonder how many others do that — directly service a few customers, and this is not counted in the purported number for retail sales.
August 24th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Tex, thanks for digging up the reference at #46.
August 24th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
to Kristin (#50)
You are right, it doesn’t make sense it would take Orrin 13 years to figure out he didn’t like it. Because that’s not the case. What makes sense is that when began building, the business was different, and over the last 13 years changed into something he no longer wants to be part of. And it doesn’t make sense that Amway/Quixtar would take 13 years to figure out he was breaking the rules, because he wasn’t. Quixtar is taking the position it is because they are being sued. Read Chuck Goetshel’s post. Read the complaint filed in CA.
August 24th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
C’mon Tex. TEAM broke no rules. TEAM does not stack. I am on TEAM. So I know. Q LIED!!!!! How do I know that they lied? Because they lied about ME! And then they somehow believe that I am stupid enough to think that they can help to “re-educate” me to overcome illegal proceedures that they, and I, know that I haven’t been taught in the first place. Q knows that they lied. I know that they lied. But it doesn’t matter what Q and I know…all the world’s a stage and it only matters what the world thinks. Q knows that the truth is just a formality. Otherwise they would not have offered to help me overcome something that I know didn’t happen in the first place.
The bottom line is this, Tex:
You no longer have a say in Q. The board no longer represents you and the company can (and now has) “change the deal” with out reguard to IBO’s.
August 24th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
It sounds like a spoiled child to denounce the character of a judge (must be in Amway’s pocket) because he didn’t rule your way. I’m sure there are many people that would defend his integrity and character just like many of you broadcast Orrin’s integrity. His reputation is also his livelihood.
The judicial system isn’t impartial only when it rules in your favor. A child doesn’t like it when a parent ‘rules’ for the sibling in an argument either but must accept their authority. It is not useful in our society to denounce the judicial system or one particular judge because a ruling is not in our favor. It might be expected to cry foul but it is not useful.
I would bet the contracts were very clear and the majority of us never read them or understood their impact on our business. The Merchants of Deception is a very interesting read. With the technology available why does it cost $6 for a tape/cd when an mp3 file could be distributed almost for free? Just wondering?
August 24th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
Where are the official Q/A new rules and regs. that people keep referring to? I have been all through the Q site and have not found anything that would let existing IBOs know what these new changes will be. Can someone please enlighten me? Thank you.
August 24th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
I am concerned for all IBO’s!! Quixtar boldly claimed IBO’s are property of Quixtar!! They will determine what I read and listen to! This company has gone off its rocker! I will continue to listen to what I want to listen to! I will continue to read what I want to read! and I will continue to talk with whomever I choose!! No company is going to take away my rights given to me by the constitution!
August 24th, 2007 at 6:50 pm
Hey Jake i would hang up on you too,i’d hang up on you if you offered me Microsoft stock at $1.00 a share.I’d hang up on YOU.
August 24th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Tex(Ext)and others -
I appreciate all of your passionate comments, I really do as this is what makes our country great - the ability to have civil discourse. However before you loose credibility by walking too far on the ledge let’s go back and look at the facts.
1. The retention rate for first year IBOs is less than 25% - if prices were good and money was great then why is this the case? 75% percent of the people, after being registered by their friend or family quit. These are just facts - indisputable facts, the percentages came from the company to me personally on several occasions. One such occasion was a personal meeting that Don Wilson and I had with Doug DeVos and Ken McDonald in the summer of 2005.
2. Orrin and Chris were prohibited today from raiding the Company’s los to solicit for another business and to not disparage the company. As far as I know I have not seen them do either since their meeting with Company on August 9th (in which they were respectful gentlemen)so asking them to stay the same is the way I see it. If any of you have seen specific examples of them disparaging the Company or raiding your los then please let us know.
3. The Company went to the court on August 10th claiming that Orrin and Chris had started a new MLM and the court must act immediately to stop them from damaging Quixtar. In the hearings this week the Company lawyers could not prove (because it was not true) that a new MLM had been started even though they had told the public and every IBO it had. Also Quixtar’s own rules state that a Training System Company is not considered a competing company (read the rules folks). So at the end of the day the court simply told Orrin and Chris to obey the rules, which they are already obeying.
4. At least 10 other Judges around the country have entered TRO’s AGAINST Quixtar in the last few days forbidding them from suspending or terminating IBOs which they threatened to do in emails sent out last week to thousands of IBOs. They wanted to suspend or terminate IBOs for just attending a meeting(are there any historical reminders here????). Quixtar can not suspend or terminate anyone for the reasons stated in their threatening emails. Why the judge in Grand Rapids did not do the same, no one knows, but judges make mistakes. Maybe if he knew the dispute resolution process, in this case at least, is not an unbiased process he would have ruled differently. Obviously by their own communications the IBOAI and Quixtar are collaborating on this issue and are obviously biased (simply meaning that they have an opinion already on the situation), yet they control the dispute resolution process.
5. Let’s don’t lose sight of the fact that started all of this. A group of very veteren and long term IBO leaders tried to work with the Company for an extended period of time to get the company to 1) lower prices 2) improve compensation plan “reachable” incomes and 3) bring in new products that could be easily sold by the new IBO and that the new IBO would want to buy for himself. The changes the Company announced this Summer signaled to these leaders, with OVER 150 years in combined IBO experience, that the Company was going in a different direction they felt was best. Even though these leaders disagreed and felt these changes would endanger the viability of the business they respected the Company’s right to do so and simply asked that they and others be allowed to move on to whatever the next phase of life had in store and to not be incumbered by inappropriate restraint of trade rules that should be suspended given the Company’s massive business transformation - which the Company have themselves called it a whole new Amway.
My question remains the same - If the new business is so good then why is anyone worried if current IBOs will stay or not?
Every IBO will make their own decision and even though we have evidently been called “property” by the company - we are not servants and the Company should be so confident in their new model that they would be proud to give people a choice. For many people I am sure they will choose to stay and if they feel that way they should. For others they just want to move on and not participate in the new deal.
What say you Doug?
6. Finally a technical correction - Tex - I think the lawsuit is already in federal court??? Again no damages have been requested, just the right to move on for those that wish.
August 24th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
suspensions for non-revoking of team?? The quixtarian inqusition has begun. Michigan courts……..another reason I hope The bucks stomp that team up north…..
August 24th, 2007 at 8:00 pm
Why has my post not been listed? It was sent sometime ago - before the latest post?
Thanks
Ron
August 24th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
I am sickened by all the garbage you people can say about Orrin Woodward, this man has integrity, character, he is a man of principle. (For a lot of you reading this you can reference websters dictionary for definitions of character, integrity, and principle, I understand most of you have never been taught these things). The amway business will never build in this state or country for that matter. Talk about wasting money, I can’t see why anyone would want to spend money to try and build an amway business, I would much rather invest my money in books, cds, and seminars to actually grow myself personally. Truthfully our culture as a whole could benefit from the TEAM trainings system, it would lessen the cynics out there and teach people to live on the higher side of life. Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady are champions for freedom, they have sacrificed and blazed the trail we can all follow. It is unfortunate all this time in quixtar I thought this company actually shared in the belief of free enterprise, and I thought they actually had character and integrity (again reference websters, or wictionary) but I admit I was duped not by Orrin Woodward but by Quixtar and the controlling families. To think I actually voted for Dick deVos, I am thankful that he didn’t win the election, I thought Granholm leaned toward socialism but based on quixtar’s recent actions I am starting to think amway and its esteemed owners and founders are the ones who are leaning toward socialism. If your business was so great you wouldn’t need to change the contract half way through the plan. Now it is amway who claims IBOs are their property. I know one thing as far as I can tell this country is still free for the time being and I will not be a slave to amway or anyone for that matter. All of you who throw stones at Orrin Woodward you might as well shoot spitballs on a battleship, because it will have the same effect. One last point, if Orrin was such an enemy of quixtar, soon to be amway, then how is it that you for all these years you have built him up, having him as the keynote speaker at quixtar live and other events. The sad thing is Orrin’s vision is to build the Wal-mart of the internet, and quixtar and all of its IBOs were part of that vision, but the short sightedness of the 2nd generation owners wouldn’t even hear him out, instead they had the brilliant idea to lower PV, raise prices, and change their name to amway. Good moves! I refuse to represent this business to anyone, and I find it hard to believe that any IBO in the field will have success building the amway business. To bad more people haven’t stood up and spoken out against amway and its benevolant dictators, but in time I think more and more will stand up and fight for their rights.
August 24th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
its amazing how full of **** this company is
August 24th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Way to go Quixtar! We’re proud of you for standing up for ethical business practices and keeping a high level of integrity for the rest of us IBO’s that voluntarily AGREED to abide by the rules of conduct. We’re proud to be supported by a company with such high standards. Thank you thank you thank you.
August 24th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
Tex, et al,
The California class action suit was in Federal court, and is thus a Federal suit. The definition of an illegal “pyramid” business is based on federal law or regulation. And, as IBOs reside in more than one state, it was necessary for TEAM to file in California.
As to the applicability of the non-compete agreements noted in the “Lawzilla” link, that is California state law, and it remains to see how it applies to our Independent Contractor agreement.
Taking a look at the complaint point-by-point, I would say TEAM is on slim footing.
Quixtar products are not so high priced that they cannot be sold by persons properly trained in the features and benefits of the product, as well as general sales training. I have hundreds of retail customers who call me to reorder the products. Nutrilite XX, Amway and eSpring water filter replacements, SA8 products, Artistry products, and LOC and other household cleaning products. When I say hundreds, I mean hundreds in each category.
In my opinion, it is faulty field training that leaves IBOs unable to sell our premium products. They only thing IBOs know is to try to sell on price. That would be like trying to sell a Cadillac against a Chevrolet based on price alone.
[to be continued]
August 24th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
Sam and Aubree,
What rules of conduct have TEAM affiliated IBO’s broken? Just curious.
August 24th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
Mr. Simmons: We have your comment from 7:10 p.m. ET this evening still in queue. Out of respect for the parties involved, we wanted to run it by our legal department to validate it as coming from your real email address. Once we get the go-ahead, we’ll publish the comment in its entirety ASAP. It appears you’ve already posted to the Opportunity Zone on more than one occasion, so hopefully this won’t take long. Thank you for your understanding.
August 24th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
I just read some interesting news. Posted within the last hour. Evidently many counties around the country minus the county where Q/A just won their decisions today. TRO’s against Q/A all over the place. Perhaps you won’t be reading this stuff on the Q/A blogs. It won’t be coming from me, but I’m feeling very encouraged right now.
I fully support the TEAM’s efforts.
Again, maybe folks should read more before they post. It would weed out the ignorant posts.
August 24th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
[continued from previous post]
Point B (in TEAM lawsuit) talks about “profitability in favored in lieu of saleability.” It seems to say that a company’s decision on how to price their product or service should be outside that company’s control.
If the TEAM leaders didn’t like the premium quality and prices of our products, then why did they sign up to begin with, or, at least, why did they stay in the business? The leadership of TEAM wanted to pull a “Walmart” on Quixtar. They thought they were big enough to force Quixtar to reduce their profitability.
Profitability is essential to a company’s survival. Amway/Quixtar has been around for 48 years. They’ve never missed a bonus, they invest in new products, not all of which are successful, and they have a generous compensation system, if one uses all aspects to which they’re entitled to use.
Going back to the general lack of effective product and sales training that largely exists in the field, one might ask why don’t more Systems properly train their IBOs? Because they recruited them on the promise that they wouldn’t have to “sell” anything, but rather, just use the products yourself and sign others up to do the same.
[to be continued]
August 24th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
[continued from previous post]
TEAM and many other (but not all) Systems do this because they aren’t interested in even attempting to move Quixtar products to anyone other than someone who has a financial interest in the sale of those products. The sale of the BSM materials (which, for the purposes of my discussion, includes any gathering of IBOs where they charge a fee) are their primary products to sell. These BSMs contain little to no product or sales training material. The overwhelming content of the BSMs is promotion of the System itself, of System leaders, and of more BSM materials.
BSM materials are extremely profitable, and because IBOs want to learn how to achieve the large income they were told about and shown, they eagerly snap up these profitable BSM materials.
So, the Quixtar products, for all intents and purposes, become the lure, or one could say, the bait through which IBOs are recruited to be sold the highly profitable BSMs. Unfortunately, these profits are not shared with the rank and file below Platinum, and even there, only a token amount.
With no skill to sell products at retail, and the reluctance of people to be recruited into a scheme where income won’t come for a long time, the Quixtar (and Amway) name takes a big hit.
[to be continued]
August 24th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
In addition to this ruling on behalf of certain IBOs in Texas, several other Temporary Restraining Order (TRO’s) protecting other IBOs have been granted throughout the country, including an additional county in Texas, three counties in Michigan, Georgia, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, New Hampshire. �
In Western Michigan’s Kent County, a judge issued a court order today that said in part all parties should follow the contractual provisions. Following the contract was never disputed by Orrin and Chris. Interpretation of the judge’s order in full detail is still being handled by attorneys. As to Sullivan’s opinion he says, “the entry of such an injunction is not a final decision on the merits of this case and shouldn’t be interpreted as the Court’s opinion as to what the ultimate decision will be.” �
The TEAM will continue to host meetings and sell materials within the terms of the Quixtar Rules of Conduct. Rule 7.1 and 7.2 states that prospect and IBO plan material needs to be authorized by Quixtar. Out of respect for the Kent County court order, the TEAM will not be selling any such material. All materials not so covered by the Quixtar authorization will still be available.
August 24th, 2007 at 9:14 pm
In the United States District Court for the Easter District of Texas, U.S. magistrate judge Don D. Bush entered a temporary restraining order stating in part that
“. . . defendant, Quixtar, and defendant’s respective officers, managers, trustees, agents, servants, employees, attorneys, confederates, and all other persons in active concert or participation with them, are hereby restrained and enjoined immediately from, directly or indirectly:
1. Interfering with Plaintiff’s Team business support system;
2. Sending verbal, written, or electronic communications to business associates and upline or down-line business partners of Plaintiff’s related to violations of the rules of conduct, use of Team materials and attendance at Team meetings and conferences, and threats to suspend or terminate any Quixtar distributor’s business based on Team materials;
3. Terminating or threatening to terminate the distributorships or businesses of Plaintiff’s and other IBOs who use Team materials forwarded by Plaintiffs;
4. Disparaging the Team approach;
5. Taking any adverse action against Plaintiffs pending disposition of this order;
6. Refusing to pay any bonus to Plaintiffs that may be due in the ordinary course of business;
7. Interfering with or prohibiting, in any way, the operation of the Team as a business support system for Plaintiffs or taking any action to shut down or interfere with the Team’s business”
August 24th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
I find most interesting that everyone has something to say…but are not willing to say their name. I was brought up to believe that your opinions do not have merit unless you have courage to claim them. Let’s please stop the bickering…if any of us have read Dale Carnegie’s book How to Win Friends and Influence People, you will remember that no one ever wins an arguement. It is clear that each side believes they are right. So let us just go out and build our two separate businesses and focus our energy on that rather than fighting. By the way, I am a proud TEAM member who chooses to not slander AMQuix hoping for the same treatment in return. “Do unto others…”
August 24th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
DY #52,
Did you read the judge’s decision? It is complete with references to the law, and if this case was appealed to a higher court, the judge could get in real trouble if he acted irresponsibly. It’s a pretty clear case to me, I doubt TEAM will spend their precise tool profit money on an appeal, they’ll need all they can scrounge up to pay for the California case, especially since they’re not bringing any money in any more. May have to even sell the Florida tool house and tool furnishings.
August 24th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
[continued from previous post]
Regarding the point, “Quixtar advises IBOs to Self Consume Instead of Retail.” That point is absolutely ridiculous. Quixtar may bemoan that most IBOs self-consume, but in my 35 years as a distributor/IBO, I have never read or heard any Amway/Quixtar communication that advised to substitute self consumption for retail. Conversely, I was part of a System for a number of years, and that IS what that System taught.
They aren’t interested in an IBO spending their time retailing, because, a.) it would take time away from the IBO attending meetings or taking other action that would result in the sale of BSMs, and b.) retail customers aren’t going to buy BSMs. The priority here is to make sure the activity supports the sale of BSM materials.
But now we have an interesting paradox. TEAM’s lawsuit claims Quixtar is a pyramid, ostensibly because their products “can’t” be sold to retail customers. But TEAM’s BSM products certainly won’t be bought by those outside the business!
[to be continued]
August 24th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Far from over my friends!
Good thing the whole Team doesn’t live in Kent County!
TRO Filed – Berks County, PA - Granted
TRO Filed Gwinnette County, GA - Granted
TRO Filed Wright County, GA - Granted
TRO Filed Columbia, SC - Granted
TRO Filed Collin County, TX – Granted, Simmons v. Quixtar
TRO Filed in Genessee County, MI - Granted
TRO Filed in Oakland County, MI - Granted
TRO Filed Wayne County, MI - Granted, August 20, 2007, Gowan v. Quixtar, case no. 07-722348
TRO Filed Montgomery County, TX - Granted August 21, 2007, Walker v. Quixtar
TRO Filed U.S. District Court, New Hampshire - Granted August 21, 2007, Fish v. Quixtar, no. 07-CV-262
Pending TROs: Reading, PA; Hartford, CT; Lansing, MI; Maricopa County, AZ
Never underestimate a Team with a Dream!
August 24th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
Lewis #54,
Seeing the theory of what TEAM was doing and finding out what they actually did was 2 different things. Thrown off, jumped off. Who cares, they’re all wet.
Jake #55,
Did you used to call your friends and tell them you wanted to talk about your Quixtar business? Come up with something better, please.
Clint #59,
1. See answer to #54 above, there is a huge difference between theory and practice. They told them about the rules they were breaking prior to the price discussion coming up. I think this has a lot more to do with the name change than TEAM wants to admit.
2. It’s a unique business, what’s your point?
3. Enron is an excellent analogy. There were literally teams (pardon the pun) of lawyers, accountants, etc., from multiple companies that “blessed” what was going on. Many of them didn’t see what was really going on behind the curtain. Much like what is STILL going on with the other tool systems, raking in massive tool cash and pretending it is coming from Quixtar.
4. Okay, they were absorbed by TEAM. Better? Everyone was amazed with Enron for a while, too. Another part of that great analogy that is consistent with TEAM.
5. No problem with that issue, the tool companies are more alike than different.
In the meantime, I won’t be holding my breath on the class action suit.
August 24th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
lol #60,
Scared of what?
Jerad #64,
Okay, you changed my mind with your silly ranting….NOT!
Anastasia
August 24th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
[continued from previous post]
And to TEAM’s final point, about “the nature of a classic, illegal, pyramid scheme,” their argument makes no logical sense. They begin with an accurate definition: An illegal pyramid scheme is characterized by the payment of money to a company in exchange for: a) the right to sell a product, and b) the right to receive awards for recruiting others to join the scheme, independent from the sale of products to the ultimate user.
Has an IBO ever earned a penny just from signing someone up in the Quixtar business? No. Has an IBO ever earned retail profit, Performance Bonus, Ruby Bonus, Emerald Bonus, etc., without the sale of a product happening? No.
Paragraph 71 in the lawsuit is a non sequitur, meaning a conclusion that does not logically follow from the previous statement. Independent from my earlier proof that the products are marketable. Bonuses are not paid unless there is product sold.
But as I, and many others will attest, the products are sellable. Even as I was writing these posts, a customer called, reordering an E-85 water filter. I took the order, at suggested retail price, thank you!
Without winning the fundamental argument about Quixtar being a pyramid scheme, Point E, that Quixtar violates the 1979 FTC decision “Amway” is moot. Quixtar has never, ever encouraged IBOs to “make a significant investment in inventory.” Quixtar rules prohibit inventory loading.
Conversely, many Systems do encourage new IBOs to make significant BSM purchases. Again, TEAM accusing Quixtar of practices it engages in itself.
[to be continued]
August 24th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
This is a sad day in the Biz the A/Q need to lower the prices and pay the IBO’S.
The IBOA board needs to have the power to keep the company in check because they have never built this Biz! WAKE UP A/Q or this Biz will not last.
August 24th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
In addition to this ruling on behalf of certain IBOs in Texas, several other Temporary Restraining Order (TRO’s) protecting other IBOs have been granted throughout the country, including an additional county in Texas, three counties in Michigan, Georgia, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, New Hampshire. �
Of course this is just speculation, but I have a feeling that MANY more of these same rulings are about to come in from around the country…….
August 24th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
Its funny that you non TEAM members listen to this crap from this company. If you knew anything you would know that this ruling was the only one like it across the country. Others states ruled in favor of the team. All this ruling is saying is that the team can not temporarily use the training system that was set up by Orrin and Chris. Its funny that for 13 years these two gentleman ran one of the largest businesses in quixtar, have been joined by some of the biggest teams (Legacy) and when they approach the company about concerns with a name change and prices, they are now running an illegal business. The federal trade commission has looked at the training system and the business and says everything is legit. So truly research what you guys are listening too because it may be you guys that are getting the wool pulled over your eyes.
August 24th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
lol #60,
Scared of what?
Jerad #64,
Okay, you changed my mind with your silly ranting….NOT!
Anastasia #66,
The new rules are not available yet. Cutting it close to September 1 if you ask me.
Concerned IBO #67,
I think your diaper needs changing.
Lee #68,
I’ll take you up on Microsoft stock for $1.
Ron #70,
You will get your post, unless legal determines it may not be a wise thing to post, given the TEAM lawsuit. Unlike the freetheibo forum, where they banned several people for asking questions. Did you ever see my question to you requesting the amount of tool profit Platinums and above “earned”?
FreedomFighter #71,
Feel better? Much of what you think is true isn’t.
rpr7768 #72,
Not any more, TEAM’s gone.
The Big Apple #74,
There’s not a Federal Court outside of California? The “lawzilla” document addresses some situations outside of California as well. Give the tool companies a break, they’ve only had almost half a century to come up with a training plan on how to sell.
Brad #77,
Got some links?
August 24th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
moved to Texas eh. the name quixtar/Amway will be getting a lot of press in the south now. Too bad it will be attached to negitive information. Which State next eventually we end up in California. Who knows by the time it’s all through everyone will have a bad taste in their mouth for Amway/Quixtar once again
August 24th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
[continued from previous post]
Finally, TEAM’s resounding defeat in the Michigan court on simple matters of contract law speaks volumes about their wisdom and state of mind regarding what they are trying to do. It could be that their lawyers see a group of rich businessmen with deep pockets and a passion for what they believe in, and the lawyers tell the TEAM leaders what they want to hear. Whether TEAM wins or loses, the lawyers win.
For all the TEAM Platinums who have been contacted by Quixtar, be glad they did. What if you are one of those who isn’t planning on following Woodward and the others, but your upline was allowed to come in and recruit people out of your organization. You’d be hopping mad, and the only one to help you would be Quixtar.
The Line of Sponsorship may belong to Quixtar, but your business belongs to you. Quixtar is protecting your business, and the business of many others, through their actions. You can make a business decision to stay or not. Quixtar would not be reducing it’s own sales and profitability unless it was worth it to them.
The U.K. and U.S. regulators talk to each other. The action taken in the UK was not by their equivalent of the FTC, the DTI (Dept. of Trade and Industry) is like the financial arm of the FBI. The charges against Amway UK were criminal, and the company was withing three weeks of being completely shut down! And all because of a failure to take action against BSM abuses.
I believe Quixtar will be taking more serious action against U.S. BSM problems in the near future to forestall possible FTC action. So what’s the best course of action for IBOs to take? Include selling products to retail customers for a profit in your mix of business activities.
Thanks for listening, and good evening. It’s way past dinnertime!
August 24th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
big apple you are not reading all the facts. look at this info on all the things that bring question to quixtar and the legality of the company as an illegal pyramid.
http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=101
go to this web site and read the entire article.
August 24th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
C’mon Tex. I made some points. Care to counter-point? “NOT” isn’t really a counter-point.
Again, what makes you more familiar than I with TEAM methods? Simply answer the question.
August 24th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
One last thing before I log out. You guys say that BSM’s wont be bought from people outside the business. Thats funny have you heard o Launching The Leadership Reveloution. That book was given to TEAM IBO’s when they signed up. It is about to be launched by Time Warner in Sept. Oh Yeah all the profitsa that Orrin and Chris would make off of this book is going to charity. Thats the type of leaders these guys are. Who wouldnt want to follow that kind of character and integrity.
August 24th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
I find it very distressing that so many of you on this and other Blogs are so quick to throw out negative comments, at Quixtar/Amway, at Team, at each other, . . . if the only thing you have to add is criticism then I’d like to suggest you move on to something else.
This is a very serious situation for many of us. We come to this Blog looking for information and answers, not mud slinging from either side.
During our time in the business we have utilized tools from different sources. ALL of those tools used the same sort of system that the TEAM is now being condemned for by so many. The System (of tools) is optional. In any business a wise person would take the time to learn from someone who is already successful in that field and then emulate the actions or behavior that made them successful. This business is no different and that philosophy is taught in most lines of sponsorship, not just TEAM. The fact that there is money in the tools is true in all organizations that use tools. TEAM worked to make that known instead of hidden.
We have put 12 years in to our Amway and then Quixtar business. Over the years the rules have changed. Now we are faced with the decision of returning to the Amway name, along with many other changes. We choose no, others will choose yes. That is our and your right. We also choose not to stay with a company that does not show the character and integrity that was there when we first got involved in the business. Will we go with TEAM? That is yet to be determined.
The truth is we all loose. And the more comments that are made on this and other blogs that are so negative and hateful toward other IBOs, the worse that is going to make this and other MLMs for all of us.
We were all drawn to this business, not only for the possible income, but for the character & integrity we saw in the company and people. Whether or not you still see that, I challenge you each to remember to maintain your own character and integrity.
As for TEAM members, your/our leaders have worked hard to teach us about true character. Remember, when you speak ill of anyone, you represent the integrity of the entire TEAM. Pocket your anger and check your words. Please.
August 24th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
oh yeah Tex! They do make the profit sharing bonuses available to Platinums and above, but I guess you would have to be a TEAM IBO to know that info! You guys comment on all this stuff and dont know anything cause you are not a team IBO.
August 24th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
and that info is made known to all team ibo’s not just platinum and above.
August 24th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
I’ll bet you’d like to know the answer to that question. Too bad it doesn’t matter.
I am going for Quixtar/Amway worldwide tool profit reform, so it doesn’t suit my needs to answer your question at this time.
You made no points. You stomped and fumed around, thinking if you were FORCEFUL enough, and said it often enough, you MUST be right. Sorry, that’s not how the truth works. The Michigan judge is one data point to support that statement. You will be getting many more if Orrin decides to go forward with his silly and baseless California lawsuit.
August 24th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
IBO - Independent Business Owner
Means: No group or training organization or ANYONE can determine what kind of success I MAKE for myself.
It means that even if my leaders were to get sued, terminated or WHATEVER, I am in charge of MY business. I am not in someone else’s business. I am in MY business. I determine my OWN success.
I fully applause the corp reinforcing good business ethics. They would NEVER do something to harm their company. Remember, they are employees not business owners. They have just as much of a vested interest.
Did it ever occur to anyone that you just might not know 100% about what is going on here? From my perspective, my OPINION, anyone that doesn’t have the integrity to stick to the contract that they agreed to and signed their OWN name on the dotted line, doesn’t have much credibility with me. So why in the world would I trust a single word that an uncredible person says?
Pull up your own boot straps and make things happen in YOUR OWN business. Build it as the corp has outlined. You are in charge of what happens, not your diamonds.
August 24th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
Karen, thank you for that perspective. Keep what she says in mind people, wherever your allegiances are. Post constructively. Remember where you get your information from, and then try some objectivity! The more dirt that gets thrown about the less likely somebody who actually knows and understands whats happening will post. I’m sure that the mud slinging will continue, so just don’t respond to it. They’ll eventually tire of not getting attention and leave.
August 24th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
rnffemt: It was mildly amusing the first time.
Mr. Simmons: Understood. As soon as legal responds, your comment will post as-is. Again, thank you for your patience.
Folks: We’ll resume in the morning. You night owls in the Americas as well as our colleagues around the world, please continue to post comments as you normally would.
August 24th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
Tex, I think that I do know the answer to my own question I was just seeing if you were honest enought to answer it for yourself. You weren’t. I’m not surprised.
I’m not stomping my feet nor am I being forceful. It’s simply called honesty. I’m even honest enough to use my real name.
My point is that I think YOU are willingly telling lies about me and hiding behind Q* to do it. For obvious reasons I take that personally and would like to see you post proof or retract.
August 24th, 2007 at 11:31 pm
FOR THE RECORD, THERE SHOULD ONLY BE ADULTS POSTING ON HERE. LEAVE YOUR WHINING AND ILL BAHAVIORS OFF OF HERE.
Q IS A GOOD ORDERING PORTAL. ANYONE CAN MAKE PRODUCTS AND SHIP THEM. ANYONE!
LETS SEE HOW TEAM’S VOLUME IS GOING TO LAY OFF EMPLOYEES AT ALTICOR.
AND PLEASE, MY OTHER FRIENDS THAT ARE IN OTHER SPONSERING ORGANIZATIONS ARE SICKENED BY “BIG BROTHERS” BEHAVIOR.
MY VOLUME WILL BE BOYCOTTED FOR THE MONTH OF SEPTEMBER. I AM JUST ONE OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS. ONE MONTH OF VOLUME WILL AWAKEN THE OWNER OF DBO’S, DEPENDENT BUSINESS OWNERS.
August 24th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
Tex #101:
The lawsuit that Quixtar won in Michigan is the only one out of very many. They’ve been losing the fight all over the country except for in their own back yard: grand blanc.
Your arguments have yet to counter mine. Things like, “you’re wrong,” etc don’t say much to your intelligence.
August 24th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
Has anyone else on the Team noticed new customers showing up in your group? I’ve heard a buzz that at least 25 ‘new’ customers have been assigned within the Team organization in the last couple weeks.
Hmmmm, Team files a class action lawsuit alleging Q/A of being an internal consumption company, then people who’ve never had customers before start getting new customers without any notice. Coincidence?
What could be going on here? Could someone be trying to make the numbers look a little better before they take an important trip out west?
Anybody else noticed this in your group?
By the way, don’t forget it’s almost the end of the month. Time to do your member/client volume reporting if you weren’t lucky enough to get some new customers assigned to you by Q/A! I doubt the new customers will last long once they see the prices!
August 25th, 2007 at 12:06 am
Hey TEX,
We ALL know you HATE Team and everything it stands for, it’s leaders, its members and even are hateful toward other ibo’s who are not a part of Team but see a valid point to all of this. I just don’t see, or understand your vendetta towards the Team or Ibo’s looking for the truth, we have seen very little “truth” in your comments, just vicious intentions. I know I am one of many, that have lost ANY interest in the things you say. I was trying to keep an open mind to your views but one can only handle so many negative comments. All I hear you say any more is Blah, Blah, Blah.
August 25th, 2007 at 12:26 am
I am certainly NOT surprised that a judge in Grand Rapids would rule in favor of Quixtar. Is that really a victory? Did you think a GR judge would do any differently? (I’m not disparaging the judge. I’m sure he’s a practical man and he knows who pays the bills.)
For those of you who state that IBOs should just honor the contract they signed–the point is, we DID NOT sign the contract we are being held to. Quixtar unilaterally changed the deal, and we are being held to it; obviously without representation.
In any other business contract, one party cannot change the terms of the contract without the other party’s agreement. Unless of course one of the parties is Quixtar/Amway. (Yes, I know, I should have re-read the compendium every year when my automatic renewal kicked in. Silly me.) It’s kind of like saying, “Here, sign this agreement. Never mind what it says today; our side can change the rules at any time and you will be held to the new rules too.)
By the way, that is exactly what the contract says as it is written today. But it did not say that back in 1999, when I signed.
I was under the assumption (there I go again!) that the IBOAI was there to protect IBOs from just that sort of thing. Guess I was wrong.
For those of you who are happy to see bad old TEAM put in it’s place, remember, the rules can change at any time. Next year it could be YOUR methods they don’t like.
August 25th, 2007 at 1:45 am
#101 Tex,
I’m amazed you reference the “1″ judge in Michigan. How do you ignore the dozens of others nation wide who disagree. Are they all on TEAM payroll? hehe. Keep posting, your helping our cause.
August 25th, 2007 at 1:59 am
My mom always told me to “Never cry over spilled milk!”
The “Milk” is spilled everyone!
Enough already, Let’s stop going back and forth…
By now, every person here has made their decision on what they want to do.
Some of us look at the new Amway ship as the Titanic. We asked the experts ( IBOAI Board ) to go check out the hull after WE were hit by the “transformation” ice burg. ( Yes, A/Q hit us )
None of the Board was happy with what they saw and eight yelled ” The ship is sinking!”
I looked around, did my due diligence, agreed with the eight, then headed for the life boats.
Some on this blog or others, see the transformation as a way to make the Amway ship better.
Get rid of the “rule breakers”, limit the systems, add some new money to the pot, toss in a few more products you can sell..
In your mind, you did your due diligence and can’t wait to go. You are 100% entitled to that opinion and I wish you the best of luck!
Really! I hope you all achieve your dreams.
( As a side note, many on my “Team” have decided to stay, I respect that decision and pray for their success as well.)
All, I would hope ( and considering A/Q’s recent actions I use that term loosely ) Is that A/Q would sail their ship the direction they have set and not circle around, pull out the guns, and keep firing at all of us in the lifeboats.
If they do, I believe they will lose sight of their destination, damage countless lives, and it will be fatal to most that stayed on board.
( Spilled Milk A/Q…Those of us that want to go REALLY want to go )
For us on team, It will be burdensome for a while, But we are headed in two totally different directions now;
You have a product business that has people…. We want a people business that has products.
What you have seen the last few weeks reflects this!
That’s just my opinion,
Jefe
August 25th, 2007 at 2:01 am
To those of you that would like a little history of past men of great character who tried to fix the tool income problem within the organization….go to this link for a youtube video.
To all those that claim they are not in a cult and can think for themselves then have the courage to listen to those of you that have come before, tried and failed. Because they failed….this is why all of this is happening now….Quixtar must clean it up or risk being shut down like in the UK.
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2006/05/andrews_explains_quixtar_tool_problems.php
August 25th, 2007 at 2:05 am
David #85 — Thanks for that enlightening and encouraging information to end my night! You rock!
And TEAM will rock on to victory and success for all of us!!
August 25th, 2007 at 3:49 am
I believe when this business was first started the distributor really got 30% retail and could really get 25% and an additional 4%. Rich and Jay really let the distributors earn 60 to 64 % of the total amount.
Many things have changed over the years and the past is the past; I do not know what the future will bring. I know that I am a better person than I was 20 years ago because of the support material. I probably spent more money on the support material than I should have but in 20 years I still have not spent close to what I spent going to College for 4 years in the 70‘s and what I learned from my association with the people in this business is worth 5 times what I learned at college.
My up-line also gave me books and tapes [one of the books] - How to win Friends and Influence People. Three different people asked me if I had read this book before I read and studied it. (I really needed to read it; I was a lot like several people that post on this and other sites) I always had to be right and I did not care who I hurt.
Think about what you post. A lot of people have worked hard and depend on the money that they make. I was a general contractor but I had an accident in 2003; I have 100k + medical each year - I am a quad.
I have a question - this is totally new - posted for the first time today. When I went online to look at my down-line’s PV to see who I needed to call. People real close to the next PV bracket this is what I saw.
Confidentiality Agreement
The information contained within this section includes Line of Sponsorship (LOS) data, which constitutes trade secret, confidential, and proprietary business information that is developed, compiled, maintained, and owned exclusively by Quixtar and protected under Rule 4.27.1 of the IBO Rules of Conduct. By opening the files, viewing these pages, or otherwise downloading or accessing the LOS data, you agree to maintain the information in strictest confidence and to take all reasonable steps and appropriate measures to safeguard the information and maintain the confidentiality thereof. You agree not to compile, organize, access, create lists of, or otherwise use or disclose the LOS data contained within this section except as authorized by Quixtar, and only as necessary to facilitate your Quixtar business. Use of LOS data in connection with any other business or activity is strictly prohibited.
I do not accept these terms
I accept these terms
How is my down line your confidential material, a trade secret.
People are not Property.
Quixtar STOP insulting us. DO YOU WANT US TO QUIT!
August 25th, 2007 at 6:28 am
Quixtar name change to Amway
It is a shame that the DeVos and VanAndel families made this decision without any communication with the field, including the IBOAI board. This name change creates obvious challenges to growing one’s business. It is a hurdle that was placed in the in front of already struggling people. Furthermore, the name change dramatically hurts the trust between the field and the company—not a good thing. For the past eight years IBOs have been telling people that this is not Amway; that it is an independent corporation being a subsidiary of Alticor Corp and a sister company to Amway. Many were told Quixtar is just Amway online and we were all taught to point out that Quixtar is actually a unique business model designed specifically for the internet. Although it takes many aspects of the Amway business and incorporated them, it is its own unique business. With Quixtar now folding back into Amway, it makes everyone look like a liar. How do you tell those people that you actually are in Amway online? What do you tell those people who asked, “Is this Amway?” before registering, and you said, “No?” Now they are in Amway. These uncomfortable and frankly unnecessary situations the IBOs will find themselves in will be difficult. The feelings will not be good. And, the trust with the owners for suddenly “changing the deal” is definitely damaged.
August 25th, 2007 at 8:34 am
>>> Craig Eddy: You signed a CONTRACT with Quixtar, as a distributor… If you didn’t agree with the terms, then why did you sign it?
August 25th, 2007 at 9:45 am
Shocking, Amway won in Grand Rapids! I heard their lawyers called TEAM a “cancer” and the IBO’s their “property”. I am so glad they are on my side. Hmm……
This blog doesn’t mention the rulings TEAM has won. What about a report on those?
August 25th, 2007 at 10:10 am
#104….administrator…..if my posts were so amusing then why not post them? All I did was spin the statements of Alticor with the truth from the ten other TRO’s already granted throughout the country AGAINST QUIXTAR…..
August 25th, 2007 at 10:19 am
10 TROs issued AGAINST Quixtar and more are pending. It would have been political suicide for the judge in GR to go against the company that pretty much owns most of the town.
Now I know that Q is promoting this victory as a COMPLETE LOST FOR TEAM, yada, yada, yada and that Woodward and company are finished but from my calculations the score is 10 to 3 in favor of the IBOs AND the most important case is yet to be heard in CA.
August 25th, 2007 at 10:53 am
team ibo #97/98/100,
I wonder how many less books Time Warner is now going to print, since Orrin’s captive audience is essentially gone. I thought you were logging out after message #97, then you post 98 and 100. First you say the tool profits are known to Platinums and above, then you say they are available to everybody. Do tell us the numbers, team ibo. Unless you are ashamed of this information.
KarenW #98,
Some truth about how much money was being made on tools would help the issue. Do you know this information?
boogybren #102,
Bingo.
Jerad #105,
You lost. Go away. Or stay and the unanswered questions will continue. I will retract nothing. I have seen the abuses I reported to Quixtar with my own eyes and ears.
SuperM #106,
Go for it. I expect the products that back up in the warehouses will soon be on clearance for IBO’s like myself to scoop up in a month or two, just in time for Christmas!
Clint #107/Brad #111,
I have asked the Moderator what the impact of these other TRO decisions will have, I will wait for their answer. In the meantime, I consider you WRONG.
KNP #108,
The new customers are probably due to all of the publicity TEAM has brought to Quixtar over the past couple of weeks. Thanks for the marketing help. Are you saying you don’t have any customers? If true, were you taught, like I was, how to lie on the computer and report customer volume that doesn’t exist?
SK #109,
I like the principles TEAM claims, it is how they don’t carry out these principles that is the problem. Take integrity and character, which seems to be the favorite idea of the day. Is it called integrity to make most of your money from tools and not tell prospects and IBO’s of this “minor factoid”?
George’s Girl #110,
You’re right, the IBOAI has not done their job. They should ALL be fired from their positions. They have been so busy raking in the tool profits they “forgot” they were supposed to be representing US, the IBO’s in their groups.
Jefe #112,
If you would paddle your lifeboats away from the ship, Quixtar wouldn’t care. But you’re shooting back at the ship (California lawsuit), so the Quixtar ship will defend itself, with the 16″ guns if necessary. Paddle, Jefe, paddle. Stop shooting.
MarDJay #113,
Andy was part of the TIF group that was trying to set up an illegal tool pyramid, by trying to pay ALL IBO’s with tool profits, and not having outside customers for those tools. Andy also said on that video, about 11-12 minutes into the video, that Diamonds make “several times” more from tools than Quixtar. Still think Orrin’s a swell guy? How about the rest of the LOS/LOA’s? I don’t.
August 25th, 2007 at 11:02 am
Cathy #114,
The only rocks you have are the ones Jefe’s lifeboats are about to thrown into.
Perry #115,
They don’t want us to quit, they want us to follow the rules. If we don’t, it will hurt all of our businesses.
mex #116,
You tell people things have changed and Quixtar is now Amway. If they have a problem with this, you have lost people who aren’t grown up enough to be business owners.
August 25th, 2007 at 11:05 am
Moderator: where is Ron Simmons post? I would like to read that please.
Jefe: well said
August 25th, 2007 at 11:20 am
One WEAK Grand Rapids judge does not have the final say in this matter (something he himself disclosed in his deliberation). Let’s see what happens with the FEDERAL lawsuit.
Hail Orrin Woodward and TEAM Leadership!
August 25th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Quixtar won in it’s home town. Big victory for them. Haha! TEAM has TROs all over the country right now. Q cannot touch TEAM’s training system right now. It’s funny that most people think that TEAM has no chance against Q, but it’s almost like TEAM is acting like the smaller guy (genious), taking bits and pieces away from Q by filing all these TROs. Q’s lawyers are going to be busy, how are they going to be in 15 places at one time to fight these TROs? IBOs from everywhere need to wake up! If you want to stay and support Q, that’s fine, but the references being made to you by them better make you angry. No one has the right to call you their “property” If they do it to TEAM, they will do it to everyone. Slavery was outlawed sometime back, let’s continue the fight.
August 25th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
This is in reply to Boogybren Post 102…
You said “I fully applause the corp reinforcing good business ethics. They would NEVER do something to harm their company.”
I cannot help but wonder if you and I are attempting to build the same business. I am wondering if you are active IBO. My wife and I are platinums with seven years invested in this business. As an “Active” IBO (someone who is actually showing the plan to other prospective business owners) you would immediately realize that the company’s descision to revert to the AMWAY name is going to have a horrendous impact on every IBO attempting to build this business. This is not a win/win proposal. If it is bad for the IBO it cannot be good for Quixtar. This is why the entire IBOAI board, UNANIMOUSLY rejected the proposed name change.
You then said: “Remember, they are employees not business owners. They have just as much of a vested interest”
As a self employed businessman who has numerous employees, trust me… employees have a very limited vested interest… to them its a job. If the business fails an employee gets another job somewhere else. The owner loses everything he/she has invested, usually a heck of a lot more than an employees. A decision this critical (such as Name change) would have to be made at the highest levels and approved by the ownership. Otherwise its the inmates running the asylum.
As far as ethical behavior, this blog itself is unethical. This blog posts snippets of the Kent County Judges ruling, using it to imply that Orrin and Chris got slapped around by the judge for have not played by the rules. Not really what happened but certainly an understandable spin on their part. Here is the unethical thing though…
This blog fails to address the FEDERAL JUDGE’s ruling on Friday that basically handed Q a huge restraining order. If the company was soooo ethical, then why would the FEDERAL JUDGE,(ie not locally elected, in the same county as these corporate billionairs, as well as 5000 Q employees who live there so therefore he cannot possibly be biased judge… OH I am sorry did I say that)have to restrain such and ethical company from:
1. Interfering with Plaintiff’s Team business support system;
2. Sending verbal, written, or electronic communications to business associates and upline or down-line business partners of Plaintiff’s related to violations of the rules of conduct, use of Team materials and attendance at Team meetings and conferences, and threats to suspend or terminate any Quixtar distributor’s business based on Team materials;
3. Terminating or threatening to terminate the distributorships or businesses of Plaintiff’s and other IBOs who use Team materials forwarded by Plaintiffs;
4. Disparaging the Team approach;
5. Taking any adverse action against Plaintiffs pending disposition of this order;
6. Refusing to pay any bonus to Plaintiffs that may be due in the ordinary course of business;
7. Interfering with or prohibiting, in any way, the operation of the Team as a business support system for Plaintiffs or taking any action to shut down or interfere with the Team’s business”
I may diagree with your logic however I certainly respect your right to express your opinion. This is what freedom of speech is all about. I wish you all the best in whatever business endeavor you choose. I for one cannot continue to be affiliated with Quixtar/Amway any more. I find their actions in this matter to be unethical, illogical, unresponsive, vindicative and extreemly harmful to the business that I have invested so much into building. I may have to sit out for six months, I will have to forfiet my Quixtar income, I may have to start over from scratch … But I will be there when Team hits a million people! God Bless!
August 25th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
REGARDING THE TRO’S IN OTHER STATES:
TRO= Temporary Restraining Order, it is not a court judgement, it is an order BEFORE judgement. Just having a TRO granted does not signify a “victory” of any kind–it is just used to give parties involved time to gather the information needed to prove to the court that the TRO should become a PERMANENT INJUNCTION.
In the three TRO’s brought before the courts by Quixtar, IBOAI, and TEAM, the court GRANTED the INJUNCTIONS levied against TEAM, and DENIED the injunction TEAM was seeking. Since the Michigan court has set the precedent according to it’s statutes, it is very likely many of the other TRO’s granted will be overturned in court, as well.
One other interesting thing to think about, that was uncovered by ibofightback on his site, http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/. It appears that Charles DeWitt, the lawyer who has taken the TEAM cause under his wing, is also the campaign spokesperson for the gubernatorial campaign of Governor Granholme–who is running against DeVos, Do you really think he cares a fig about IBO’s, or about using any means at his disposal to bring down his boss’s opponent and keeping his cushy job?
And can someone tell me, is he also getting paid to wage this fight for TEAM? Sounds like the only win-win is for the lawyer, and not for the hundreds of thousands whose livelihood is being damaged by all this bru-ha-ha……
August 25th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Just for the record. Even XS is overpriced now. You can go to any store and not only buy energy drinks for cheaper, but not have to pay ridiculous delivery costs for them. We pay over $2 per can right now after delivery, which is more expensive than some convenience stores. Now they are raising shipping costs?? If this is our most retailable product, I’m scared for the future. Sports drink prices are way overpriced, but we understand, you have to have a certain profit for the founding families. What is more money, 33% of 1.1 billion or 15% of 10 billion. While those are made up numbers, that is the type of sales/growth that could happen if prices were competitive. Notice the percentage kept by founding families in that example is less than half of the percentage. Based on the last few years, Quixtar will get to 10 billion in like 52,000 years
August 25th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
TEAM IBOs seem to be highlighting all the other Temporary Restraining Orders as if they are “win”. If I recall correctly, Quixtar got 2 TROs in Michigan and TEAM got 1. They are *temporary* pending a hearing - not a “win”.
In Michigan the judge ruled on Quixtar’s side in all three cases. What makes you think getting the TROs in the other states are any more a “win” than the one in Michigan that when went to hearing you lost?
Maybe I’m just misunderstanding the US legal system here (I’m not American). Can someone explain where I’m wrong?
August 25th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
I noticed that XS has reaffirmed its exclusive arrangement with Quixtar. What are the TEAM IBOs going to sell now that XS is not available to their new MLM?
August 25th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
FRIDAY, AUG 24TH — In the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas, U.S. magistrate judge Don D. Bush entered a temporary restraining order stating in part:
“. . . defendant, Quixtar, and defendant’s respective officers, managers, trustees, agents, servants, employees, attorneys, confederates, and all other persons in active concert or participation with them, are hereby restrained and enjoined immediately from, directly or indirectly:
1. Interfering with Plaintiff’s Team business support system;
2. Sending verbal, written, or electronic communications to business associates and upline or down-line business partners of Plaintiff’s related to violations of the rules of conduct, use of Team materials and attendance at Team meetings and conferences, and threats to suspend or terminate any Quixtar distributor’s business based on Team materials;
3. Terminating or threatening to terminate the distributorships or businesses of Plaintiff’s and other IBOs who use Team materials forwarded by Plaintiffs;
4. Disparaging the Team approach;
5. Taking any adverse action against Plaintiffs pending disposition of this order;
6. Refusing to pay any bonus to Plaintiffs that may be due in the ordinary course of business;
7. Interfering with or prohibiting, in any way, the operation of the Team as a business support system for Plaintiffs or taking any action to shut down or interfere with the Team’s business”
In addition to this ruling on behalf of certain IBOs in Texas, several other Temporary Restraining Order (TRO’s) protecting other IBOs have been granted throughout the country, including an additional county in Texas, three counties in Michigan, Georgia, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, New Hampshire.
As for your “victory” in Grand Rapids, note that in Judge Sullivan’s opinion he says, “the entry of such an injunction is not a final decision on the merits of this case and shouldn’t be interpreted as the Court’s opinion as to what the ultimate decision will be.”
How’s THAT for victory?
August 25th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
I just read in another blog that The Team has an injunction against Quixtar in Texas??? This injunction is from the Eastern District court meaning Quixtar cannot stop The Team from using their tool business! It looks like the cocky Q got surprised!
August 25th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
I cannot believe quixtar had the audacity to refer to IBOs as property! I think quixtar is really stepping in it and I know one thing for sure, if they keep up this rhetoric there is no way Dick DeVos will ever be elected to public office, in this state or any. It takes more than just money to win elections it also takes votes when the general public sees how he treats the people who generate income for his family there is no way they will back him. At this rate I would vote for a democrat over him. I hope they clean up their act soon.
August 25th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
No matter how fancy quixtar’s lawyers are the prices are still too high! It also appears quite obvious that the IBOIA board is in bed with quixtar, maybe even their alter ego. Another thing I have noticed especially on this blog that there is no mention of the TRO’s (temporary restraining orders) that the TEAM has won across the country, including a federal court in Texas. The truth will get out, I truly hope quixtar wakes up and realizes they do not own IBOs, other IBOs that believe quixtar is in the right for doing this I can only hope the day won’t come when you are in their cross hairs.
August 25th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
I cannot believe quixtar had the audacity to refer to IBOs as property! I think quixtar is really stepping in it and I know one thing for sure, if they keep up this rhetoric there is no way Dick DeVos will ever be elected to public office, in this state or any. It takes more than just money to win elections it also takes votes, when the general public sees how he treats the people who generate income for his family there is no way they will back him. At this rate I would vote for a democrat over him. I hope they clean up their act soon. Also
no matter how fancy quixtar’s lawyers are the prices are still too high! It also appears quite obvious that the IBOIA board is in bed with quixtar, maybe even their alter ego. Another thing I have noticed especially on this blog that there is very little mention of the TRO’s (temporary restraining orders) that the TEAM has won across the country, including a federal court in Texas. The truth will get out, I truly hope quixtar wakes up and realizes they do not own IBOs, other IBOs that believe quixtar is right for doing this I can only hope the day won’t come when you are in their cross hairs.
August 25th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
I have been in business with Quixtar for 5 years now. Not sure about the rest of you but in light of the recent court cases (all of them, not just the 3 victories in Grand Rapids) I can no longer represent Quixtar/Amway in good concience. At one time Quixtar represented the best opportunity to truly live free. Unfortunatly, when i have seen how they have treated the Team IBO’s as if they are property and without truly addressing the overly inflated pricing issue (which is definitly a true issue) I can’t help but think that they would do the same to me if it came down to it. I truly hope the best for everyone involved with both Quixtar/Amway (oh yeah thats a whole other issue…were we ever gonna be informed of this change or what?) How can i trust a company running like this?
August 25th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Yesterdays court decision was simply the IBOAI’s restraining order vs. the former board members, that’s all. It had absolutely nothing to do with the Federal case in California. The cases in other states, won by IBO’s, also have nothing to do with the California Federal case.
But since alticor posts these incredibly one-sided, non-factual “articles” like the one above, you non-TEAM IBO’s go on blind faith that these are the facts. Which, honestly, frustrates us TEAM IBO’s like mad. Especially when you consider the fact that this blog has alticor employees posing as IBO’s posting their “support” on this site.
I am very saddened for those non-TEAM IBO’s who come here to get the “facts”. Ihope that soon you will see the light and get the real facts elsewhere.
August 25th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
To all our knowledgable IBO friends out there. A few questions:
1. Recently I learned that several TEAM IBO’s have had customers randomly assigned to them. Why would Q/A do this? Could it be that they are trying to disprove the internal consumption model prior to their trip to the West Coast on Sept. 12th?
2. What EXACTLY does the IBOAI board do for the IBO’s? I understand some damaging, confidential data has leaked out and has been ordered to return. But if this data is damaging and confidential, why would our IBOAI repesentatives (who are looking out for the best interest of the IBO’s) want to hide it? Aren’t they suppose to be helping us become more successful?
3. What does the IBOAI board do with the $9 we pay in each year? What if all of us were to ask for a refund?
August 25th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Total defeat for quixtar in Texas federal court today! Team wins on all counts!
August 25th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
rpr7768 - which posters are Alticor employees “posing as IBOs”? Myself and some others I KNOW are IBOs got banned on the TEAM forums and were accused of being Alticor employees. Heck, some very well known A/Q critics who have been posting on the ‘net for years against the corp. even got accused on that forum of being Alticor employees! (and banned)
I don’t know who is telling you this stuff but anyone who claims I’m an Alticor, Quixtar, or Amway employee is lying - simple as that.
August 25th, 2007 at 5:37 pm
How long does it take to verify Ron Simmons email? It also seems strange Alticor would have their “legal” dept do it. Perhaps his comments have certain truths that they would rather come out later than sooner. Passing the “buck” to their lawyers is a convenient way to put it off until monday. Please prove me wrong moderator.
August 25th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
Tex #121
No, I wasn’t taught to lie. But I haven’t found anyone who was interested in paying triple what they could pay at ANY other retail store.
Are you saying you were able to con some people into remaining customers? If so, how’d you do it? You must be the best spin doctor in the world!
Read my #137. I’m anxious to hear your thougts on the value of the IBOAI board.
August 25th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
rpr7768 re. your post #136 above: would you care to indicate which posters here are, in your opinion, “Alticor employees posing as IBO’s posting their “support” on this site”?
I’m calling your bluff on this one.
August 25th, 2007 at 6:25 pm
IBOfightback #128
The Federal judge ruling in Texas is more than an ordinary Temporary Restraining Order (TRO). It’s unique because QUIXTAR asked the ruling of a state judge to be moved to Federal Court. They were there to defend themselves and still couldn’t do it!!
It may look like just a TRO, but read the wording. It clearly sends a message to Q/A. Point #7 “…. Interfering with or prohibiting, in any way, the operation of the Team as a business support system for Plaintiffs or taking any action to shut down or interfere with the Team’s business”.
Do you think the Federal Judge in CA won’t take notice of this?
Come on, 7 of us fighting Quixtar in their own back yard is one thing. But a Federal Judge in Texas? You can’t say it’s an apples to apples comparison… not even close!
August 25th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
advocate 4 free enterprise #125,
The TRO’s will expire, and will be bundled, not treated separately. This is a mere distraction.
santhony #126,
You can find the ENTIRE ruling on the IBOAI forum. Are you selling your Platinum business, or just walking away from it?
ibofb #128,
You’re right. These 10 “wins” are vapor.
Richard #129,
XSively priced tools.
George’s Girl #130,
It isn’t a victory.
Quixkicked #131,
Do you have a link? Or should I say I noticed on another blog the Supreme Court ruled Orrin is a funny name?
JPW #135,
TEAM was breaking rules. If you can’t handle the fact that Quixtar will enforce their rules, goodbye.
rpr7768 #136,
Which posters do you believe are posing as IBO’s?
KNP #137,
1. Maybe these potential customers live near the TEAM IBO’s. Ever consider this?
2. Not much. They hide it because they don’t want to “stir the pot”, because they are hiding something that is a MUCH bigger problem: THEIR MASSIVE TOOL PROFITS.
3. They put it in their pockets. We should ask for it back, all of the way back to when we signed up. And not pay any more until they start doing their job.
August 25th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
#121 hey Tex, I knew that someone like you would try to play my words against me that is why the extra post. As for the disclosing of the profit sharing for BSM’s. Have you ever heard of intisement. Thats why no one will tell you the numbers. That is info made available to TEAM IBO’s. And the book sales I guess we will have to wait and see how well its going to do when it hits the best sellers list. I know that it already has sales and it hasnt even hit the shelves yet.
August 25th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Tex,
I knew that Team In Focus would be creating an illegal pyramid…just as TEAM is an illegal pyramid NOW. The only use for his products in his downline…ironic he is sueing Quixtar for being what HE IS!
However…
…my point was two fold…
1. The one you pointed out that the Diamonds make 3 times on tool for what they make on Quixtar.
2. At least these leaders were trying to help the new guy realizing that the tools were draining the new IBO into unprofitablity. Team in Focus eventually went under and all those Diamond quit because they felt they could not continue to victimize the IBO’s below them.
The company was orginally happy because they know that the reason Quixtar/Amway have such a bad reputations is BECAUSE of the Tool Kingpins making 3 times their Quixtar income, but claiming they are making it through Quixtar…..it just ended up not being a viable/legal option.
I thought it might just lay some credence to these IBO’s that refuse to believe the tool issue.
August 25th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
#129 Richard
You’ll see!
August 25th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
Tex#121,
What abuses have you “seen” and reported? All I have seen from you is an admission that you know absolutely nothing about how TEAM’s profits are shared while somehow still claiming that they are shared only by the upper pins. How can you no nothing about an issue yet still have any kind of opinion about said issue?
You do realize that due to your inability to be forthcoming about any of your information most people have assumed that you are not an IBO. As such…who cares? And more importantly, why do you care so much? Former IBO? Corporate stooge? Possible. But not an IBO.
Go home and let the adults talk.
A loss of a “captive audience”? Look around “Dan Rather.” Nearly all TEAM IBO’s are going where TEAM goes. Haven’t you gotten that yet? You seem a little blinded by hatred.
August 25th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
What is amazing to me is that all these IBO’s seem to think they are a TEAM IBO and not a Quixtar IBO.
They didn’t sign a contract with Team, they signed with Quixtar.
If they had been recruited properly instead of underhandedly like Team does it they would have known that and would have read the contract. However, most of them were recruited being told that TEAM was the business and Quixtar was just a supplier.
Wrong, they are a Quixtar Distributor, not a Team Distributor. Where are all of your heads.
I have news for all of you Team members that think you are so large that you will have such an impact by boycotting or leaving Quixtar….ha….every other oganizations says the same old stuff…we are the greatest…we are the biggest….we are the fastest growing…we are the only ones with charactor, it is all the other’s that are giving Quixtar a bad name…not us. Everyone thinks that they are the “good ones”…….yada, yada, yada. So tired….so tired of hearing cult speak.
August 25th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Hey KNP - good questions!! And here’s another: Why would the 60% of the IBOAI Board that didn’t resign, sit with Quixtar in the courtroom instead of the IBOs they are supposed to support? What are they trying to hide from us? Who exactly are they supporting with that 6.3 million dollars they collect from us each year? Sure seemed like they were supporting the company instead of the IBOs.
August 25th, 2007 at 11:06 pm
Good points KNP and George’s girl…I understand that the IBOAI was present in the Michigan court room with the plaintiff. Doesn’t that go against everything that they were formed for in the first place? The IBOAI was put in place to PROTECT the IBO. They are probably so confused about what they are fighting for anymore. They know that the company is not looking out for the IBO, and that they can longer (in good conscience)say that they are fighting for the best interest of the IBO either. I hate to conclude that they are only looking out for themselves. So many KNOW and have said that Orrin stands in a righteous corner,yet they are too scared to stand there with him. AT LEAST have the character to not betray your friends.
August 25th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
So If TEAM is not allowed to train, who is?? oh wait, dexter’s system……..well it worked best in amway, which we all will be Sepy 1st….or you guys who stay will be, anyways alot of comeback attempts fail , because if it were that great it wouldn’t have gone away in the first place. i for one couldn’t wait to go door to door selling soap…..not that anyone actually would do that, but once the public has a perception of you..well it takes a long time if ever to change it. As for the IBOAI board, it has all the power of the english monarchy, i am very disappointed in the way this has gone down, i will still attend TEAM events and listen to BSM’s…just try and stop me,
August 26th, 2007 at 12:04 am
The way to handle, “Is it Amway?” Is to say, “Yes. My business is affiliated with Amway.” If they turn around and run, you just saved yourself a boatload of time.
I had a problem with the way it came about, and at first, I was very apprehensive. But, if you have a retail focused business, like you’re supposed to, it won’t matter. As I look at each leg I have, it came from leading off with the products. So just do it right. And for those Platinum IBOs that have a problem with it, buh-bye. You probably qualified by the skin of your teeth (that weren’t brushed with Glister), anyway.
August 26th, 2007 at 12:46 am
#127 & #128,
Team IBO’s are referring to the 10+ TROs we won as victories because they are victories. Just like your wonderful Q considers their 3 wins as victories.
Did you read the very first line of the above post? “Quixtar and our IBOs won in court today.” Not to mention the spin they are handing out to the media about being a complete loss for Woodward and that Woodward’s credibility is zero. Why not tell Q and the moderators that those 3 “victories” are not really victories because they are “pending a hearing”.
Also, Woodward’s credibility may only be zero with the corporation NOT by any means zero with Team IBOs. By the end of this, it may not be zero even with the corp because they may just have to admit they finally were beaten in court by a group of IBOs, being led by Orrin, something never accomplished to this degree.
August 26th, 2007 at 1:00 am
When you joined Quixtar you became, distributors of their products & representatives of their product lines. You didn’t become a distributor/representative for TEAM products. (Unless, of course, you’re selling BSMs. If you were, I suspect that’s suddenly halted your income now, eh?)
(TEAM BSMs were teaching you to run/build a pyramid, while other groups were working on teaching their IBOs to successfully retail. TEAM was asked to stop after the business came under scrutiny in the UK. In order to prevent the halt in business that occurred in the UK Q* had to ask TEAM to stop building the business incorrectly, whether they had previously approved it or not. What it boils down to is that TEAM leaders, after raking in hundreds of thousands of dollars from selling BSMs, couldn’t really come to you, eat crow and say “Sorry we made you spend your loot on improper training.” Better to use smoke screens and make it look like they had no choice other than to leave the business because of high prices. Odd though, since they taught you to purchase those products and recruit new IBOs to purchase them as well.)
TEAM has misled you. And you’ve blindly followed, like lemmings. It’s sad that you’re allowing them to lead you right over the cliff. Good luck with that. I truly wish you the best. Please feel free to send your resignation request into Business Conduct & Rules.
Congratulations to the TEAM IBOs who have decided to stick with the business and learn proper business building procedures. Quixtar is committed to helping us. The next few months and years are going to be very exciting. Some very positive changes are being made. I’m looking forward to being a part of it all.
August 26th, 2007 at 1:03 am
#137 KNP — I am a TEAM Legacy IBO. No customers appear in my list, save the ones I put there or sent to the sites.
If you read Chuck Goetschel’s post or Ron Simmons’ post on the www.freetheibo.com weblog, or even the contents of the original California suit, you’ll get your answer. The IBOAI has been for years nothing more than a convenient figurehead group, with little to no real power with the company.
If the IBOAI had real power with the company, why did the company adjust PV/BV levels DOWN last year on popular items like XS??? It was my understanding from none other than Double Diamond and Past IBOAI President and Vice-President Don Wilson the Board was supposed to have the power over the company such that, should the compensation plan be changed, it could ONLY be changed for the better for IBO’s.
The real power lies with the company, where it’s always been. Fool yourself on that only to your ultimate detriment.
August 26th, 2007 at 1:06 am
I have tried to understand Quixtar’s decisions over the course of the last few months and especially the last few weeks. Their actions have been unfathomable, reckless, unethical and totally illogical. On this quest to a million people and this quest to change our culture, most TEAM leaders beleive whole heartedly that God’s hand is on our business. How else can you possibly explain the growth and success of TEAM when most every other organization is going backward.
With that in mind, I think about Isreal and how the Lord used Moses and Arron to lead them out of bondage. Proverbs 21:1 tells us that God controls the hearts of leaders similar to the flow of a river. The only explanation for Q’s radical behavior that I can come up with is that the Lord has hardened the leaders hearts similar to the way he hardened Pharoah’s heart. Why else would Pharoah want one more night with the frogs? (Read Exodus 8:8-10) Pharoah asks Moses to entreat the Lord to take away the frogs that are covering the entire land. Moses asks when he should entreat the Lord and Phoroah responds tomorrow. Most of us would have responded and asked Moses to do it immediatly, however Pharoah says tomorrow. It was illogical, why would he want one more night with the frogs? Illogical until you realize the Lord had hardened his heart. Pharoah was not thinking clearly. God was in control and using Pharoah to accomplish His ultimate plan.
TEAM leaders walk by faith not by sight… I believe with all my heart that the TEAM is being led out of bondage… Q is daily adding more nails to their own coffin through a series of illogical reactionary decisions. How else can you explain it…
Once free, we will get to a million people and beyond. We will affect our culture making a difference in lives all across America. Have faith and remember, God is STILL in control!
We will see you at a million!
August 26th, 2007 at 1:13 am
Very funny how a TRO instituted in Michigan is celebrated as a Q/A victory, go ahead and read the blogs the last week. But TRO’s across the nation in other counties in favor of TEAM are simply brushed aside as a delay until judgement. Hilarious. Can I have my money back for 11 years of contributions to the IBOAI board?
hehe.
August 26th, 2007 at 1:19 am
#137 KNP:
1. Are you a Platinum? If so, you do realize that when a person not affiliated with Q goes to the site to place an order they need to register as a customer, right? They are automatically assigned a sponsoring IBO. Those random IBOs are Platinums. This policy has been in place for years. It’s nothing new.
2. The IBOAI supports IBOs and addresses issues IBOs face. It is not beneficial to them or to any of the IBOs who want to grow their business correctly to have renegade IBOs using confidential information improperly.
(Also, for people who have commented previously about the IBO board not having a say in the name change or business transformation, please keep in mind that the board does not have final say in what Quixtar/Alticor does. Alticor does take what the board thinks into consideration, but final decisions are made by Alticor, not the board. It’s a privately held company. The owners have final say.)
3. In previous years the IBOAI fee that we pay has been OPTIONAL. If you didn’t want to support them you only needed to opt out.
For those who have declared that this is war you are incorrect (and also a little over-dramatic). I’d call it a bitter, messy divorce. This too shall pass.
August 26th, 2007 at 4:33 am
Tex,
You usually think these through and I respect your knowledge and wit …. But come on???
You said;
Jefe #112,
If you would paddle your lifeboats away from the ship, Quixtar wouldn’t care. But you’re shooting back at the ship (California lawsuit), so the Quixtar ship will defend itself, with the 16″ guns if necessary. Paddle, Jefe, paddle. Stop shooting.
Tex, Where have you been? “If you would paddle your lifeboats away from the ship, Quixtar wouldn’t care”
You are kidding right?
This is all we asked for. Read from the beginning my friend.
We said ” A/Q, we think your new “transformation” is flawed. Give us three months to get on the life boats and paddle away.
Their answer is why we are here right now! We would have paddled quietly away.
Truth is, If the A/Q ship sinks, we don’t want a cable to drag us in the life boats down with it.
That is all we asked for. Freedom. All shots fired from that point on are to gain that freedom
I know you will say, ” but you want to take your people.” yes we do. If I was on a ship with my family and it was going down, I would grab my kids first… So would you.
Then Tex, you will mumble something about property, rules, or laws.
Here is my answer. “Quixtar is welcome to keep any / all IBO’s it put in the business.
All ibo’s they showed the plan to, everyone they built the dream with, the one’s they celebrated with, the one’s they cried with, every single one they taught and trained…. They can keep them all.
The founders are billionaires, the kids ( active or inactive ) are billionaires, why not the grand-kids too? They can keep every one listed above.
Truth is though, all they did was sell us expensive products and put a barbed wire fence around us.
“paddle your lifeboats away from the ship, Quixtar wouldn’t care” …. If only that where true!
That’s my take!
Jefe
August 26th, 2007 at 6:52 am
Hey guys here are two undeniable facts.
1. Quixtar has not disputed anywhere in writing that only 3.5% of all retail sales are to non IBOs. The members of the lawsuit have had access to the real numbers for a long time and will be able to prove it in court.
2. The members of the Lawsuit resigned well before the they were terminated. The members of the Lawsuit offered to talk about an amicable separation that would be win win for both parties and were immediately terminated without any discussion or offer of arbitration. Quixtar misrerpresented these facts in writing and legal counsel will be able to prove it in court.
One final thought, TEAM IBOs have been successful in court getting restraining orders across the country and Quixtar has only won one battle in their backyard. Read Judge Sullivans disclaimer that his ruling in no way is final or has any bearing on the main case in California FEDERAL court. And they are losing in India and the UK.
August 26th, 2007 at 9:28 am
Straight from Google News….
Quixtar Crows Too Soon About Court Rulings, Says Poyfair
David is taking on Goliath and winning in courts across the country. Following a ruling in Michigan’s Kent County Circuit Court, Friday, Quixtar representatives expressed their satisfaction in the press and on their corporate blogs. They even went so far as to assault the character of one of their former Independent Business Owners (IBOs) in an official corporate posting, says attorney D.J. Poyfair. What they aren’t saying is that the company came out on the other side of the same issue in courts all across the country. In fact, according to court records and a Los Angeles newspaper, three Michigan Circuit Courts have granted Temporary Restraining Orders (TROs) against Quixtar on behalf of IBOs who are afraid of the corporate giant. Nationally, the picture for Quixtar was even worse. TROs were granted to protect IBOs in five other states, and two of them in federal courts, according to court records.
A single mother, another recipient of the email, who has built a successful business right in the Grand Rapids area, said How can they threaten to terminate me for something someone else supposedly did? I have worked hard to build my business and it’s my sole source of income. What kind of a company treats people this way?
“We are concerned about retaliation,” said one IBO among hundreds standing on the Kent County Courthouse steps during proceedings on Thursday, who won a TRO against Quixtar (Case 07-722348CK) . “Quixtar is coming after my personal business because they are being sued by several former high-level distributors that I am affiliated with.”
August 26th, 2007 at 9:30 am
Hope this never has to happen to the rest of you because Quixtar suddenly decides that your upline Diamonds haven’t been following the rules that Quixtar has been telling us all along were OK….
August 26th, 2007 at 11:53 am
New Platinum: Can you provide a link to that MLive.com post, versus pasting the full text here?
Edward: Could you possibly shorten your comment? We’ve asked that comments be roughly 2-3 paragraphs, give or take. Thank you.
Tex: That appears to be a hot topic on this and other recent posts. CC may or may not be working on messaging already. Stay tuned.
Folks: Several of you are looking for a comment submitted late last Friday by an individual directly involved in the legal proceedings. The comment is still under review. Please understand that, this being a weekend, this is taking a bit longer than usual.
August 26th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
#153 Allen D.Tullos:
September 1st? Where are you getting your misinformation? The name isn’t changing Sept 1st. The name change will take approximately 18 months and should probably be finalized around 2009.
QBIs are changing Sept 1st. Making it easier for new IBOs to make more money sooner. (QBIs use to be focused mainly at Platinums or above, but there was an obvious need to assist the new IBOs. It’s really a fantastic plan. Check it out.)
August 26th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
GirlPower #160
My question about customers was rhetorical. I’ve achieved levels higher than Platinum and still have NEVER had a customer assigned to me (and I live in an area of 750,000 people).
Likewise, several other Team leaders have ‘all of a sudden’ been assigned 25+ customers in the past two weeks. Hmmmmmmm????
Regarding the IBOAI board, I didn’t say they have the final say in anything Q/A does (we all know who does). But, wouldn’t you think the company, out of sheer business smarts would consult or at least run by a group of their biggest distributors something as monumental as changing the company name to AMWAY? Come on… that’s just common sense.
Likewise, if the remaining IBOAI board members were truly interested in what’s best for the IBO’s, why wouldn’t their conscience’s lead them to make some public statements and comments, especically when their recent vote of confidence on the future state of Q/A came back as practically no confidence at all? What does that tell you? It tells me, ‘the ship is going to sink, but let’s milk this as long as we can’!
August 26th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
The reality of it all is choices were made and and now everyone has to live with it.. TEAM stay focused,( SEMPER FI) it doesnt pay to throw stones..
August 26th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
If you’re interested in seeing what happened in US Federal Court in Texas, go to the following link and scroll down until you find the PDF file containing the court order.
http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=164&hilit=
August 26th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
If TEAM material was against their (Q) rules. Q knew for some time that the material was against their rules. Ante up Q, I want my money back.
August 26th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
To Gladiator: I don’t have to worry about what would happen if A/Q kicked my Diamond out. I haven’t been a part of his deceptive tool scam for quite a few years.
To TEAM members that think our prices are too high: Have you bought a pizza lately? You nearly cannot get out of a pizza restaurant for less than $20 for something that’s going to last you only until the next meal. Some of the products I buy from the biz last 6 months or more; a lot longer than the comparable store brand would have lasted, and with higher quality performance, too.
August 26th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Roy E #141,
In the meantime, Ron should post his information on the freetheibo forum.
knp #142/4,
There are plenty of products that are competitively priced. I did a price comparison and posted in on qblog last year that showed several core products that are competitively priced. All of the partner store prices are, as they compete in the free market much more with other customers than the IBO’s.
You obviously don’t understand the nature of a TEMPORARY restraining order, which is essentially a freeze in taking adverse action until more facts are known. A much more detailed hearing was held in Michigan, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they vacate the TRO’s around the country within a week or two.
team ibo #146,
If telling about the tool profits is enticement, wouldn’t the marketing plan be enticement as well?
We’ll see how many books are sold, now that Orrin was kicked out.
MarDJay #147,
Orrin does not have an illegal pyramid, because only a few get paid, not all of them. Just like any of the other tool systems. TIF tried to pay everyone, that was the difference. I know TIF was trying to make it more fair, but you have to do it legally. What if TIF lowered the tool prices? This would have achieved about the same result and it would have been legal.
Jerad #149,
My complaints to Quixtar did not include the tool profit level issue. I told Quixtar I didn’t hear the word Quixtar a single time during the opens or seminars, there was no mention (or extremely indirect mention) of the retail requirement, the tools were strongly promoted at the opens and at the seminars (where they were also available at the back of the room and easily purchased in the heat of the moment), the plan was shown in such a way that Orrin and Chris were given credit for the basic activities Quixtar does, etc. In a word, unethical practices and lies. By the way, I am an IBO, so I am not going away. Orrin has already done that for me.
MarDJay #150,
You are correct, many of the practices TEAM engaged in are also done by most of the other tool company supporters/”leaders”.
Fig #152,
While no angels themselves, the IBOAI members were not sitting with those who were supporting FORMER and TERMINATED IBO’s, not CURRENT IBO’s.
Jeffrey #154,
Most younger people don’t even know what an “Amway” is, but you do have to educate them quickly, because they will google Amway, just like they google Quixtar.
Steve #155,
The difference is the hearing WAS held in the Michigan decisions. 2 days of lawyers pleading their side of the case, whereas the other TRO’s held no detailed hearings. Huge difference. But hey, if the dream is big enough….
GirlPower #156/160,
Well said, but keep in mind TEAM is far from alone in the lack of retail issue.
santhony #158,
How else can you explain it? TEAM broke the rules and refused to change. They are gone. Good riddance.
Jefe #161,
The term “paddling away” means quitting, waiting 6 months, starting/joining a competing MLM, not filing a lawsuit, and waiting 2 years to contact known IBO’s. That’s the rules. Simple. It protects the business, including mine. I happen to like the rules. You don’t. Your leaders broke the rules. You lose.
makingadifference #162,
1. Quixtar has very active processes in the works. One is “First Circle” and the other is QuixtarUniversity.com. Ever heard of these? They are fixing the problems, not hanging out their dirty laundry like the former TEAM Board members did.
2. Why does it matter what the actual sequence was, quit versus terminated? They are GONE. Same result. Either way, it all happened in a matter of hours anyway. What’s your point? Grasping for straws?
I think the India and UK tool profiteers lost a lot more in the UK and India than Amway has.
Gladiator #163,
Do you know who D.J. Poyfair is? Do you consider him a neutral party? Also, these TRO’s are NOT the same issues decided in Michigan. That is a lie. But then again, when you determine who D.J. is, it makes sense. The “heart-wrenching” story about the single Mom is all theatre. All she was asked is whether she was going to follow the rules.
Moderator #165,
Which hot topic are you talking about? The other RTO’s? Whether Quixtar instructed the upline to not disclose tool profits? If true, did Quixtar provide the “alibi” as well? The reasoning behind this mistake? All of the above, hopefully.
August 26th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
I am personally not buying ANYTHING until this gets straightened out. that also goes for showing the business to others or even thinking about this internet business. I am taking a leave of absence for a few months to see where the dust settles. I suggest everyone else does the same.
August 26th, 2007 at 9:30 pm
santhony,
Thank you for your comments. I am an active IBO that shows the plan 2-3 times/week. I have yet to encounter anyone that was negative about the name change back to Amway. There is a lot of good heritage and if the business plan is shown properly and not like the stereotypical Amroid, people are very open to either be business owners or clients. Admittedly, I wasn’t to excited about the name change, but I haven’t seen any adverse reaction from the people I show the plan to. I tell everyone that I show this business plan to about the name change.
About the IBOAI unanimously rejecting the name change, I am waiting from some credible proof of that. Three members of my leadership is on the board, and they have been very supportive of the name change. Someone out their is not being honest, I don’t have any hard evidence to say who so I continue to build my company as I had before this whole fiasco.
Regarding the employees and vested interest, you are absolutely right! With one exception. The people who are making these decisions are responsible for the jobs of a lot of people there in Michigan and other locations as well as affecting hundreds of thousands of business owners. They still have to be very careful about the decisions they make because of it’s huge impact. They have a lot more riding on this than you realize. Having worked directly with executives in one of the top 5 software companies in the world, I have seen first hand the consequences (good or bad) of their decisions. Certainly not to be taken lightly.
Regarding the ethicalness (if that is a word
) of this blog, I am sure it is a matter of opinion. How the info is presented is up to the presenter. They are showing the facts as they see them. It is like a presidential candidate trying to highlight it’s opponents good news clippings, it’s not going to happen. The same goes vice versa though, I would say that the blogs supporting TEAM are in the same boat.
The bottom line is that I believe that I am in charge of my business. If I don’t want to play by the corp’s rules, then I stop building my company with quixtar and move on to something else. That is my decision. If I build my company by the rules they outline, then if I feel that I get screwed later down the line then I would have some serious ammunition in court. Conversely, if I don’t build my company by their rules, then I shouldn’t complain if they take action against me. There has to be some level of personal accountability. I choose to take accountability for my actions. I cannot speak good or bad about these team leaders for their actions. Nobody but them really knows what happened. People can tell us what they want and spin it any way they would like. I don’t have control of that. I do have control of me.
August 26th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
#68 Lee Ziegler
Don’t worry, I was calling Bob, not YOU.
August 26th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
Aren’t we all glad we have Tex to sift through all the comments and explain and answer them? This guy is brilliant! He can show every one of us where our thinking is flawed. My, my, Mr. Tex, I sure wish I could have you explain everything in life to me.
I think you’re wasting your talents on this blog. Someone with your superior intellect and powers of reasoning should be working for The New York Times, or Newsweek Magazine. You know, so more people can benefit from your wisdom and insights.
August 26th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
Wake up people, the iboia board is supposed to represent us. What’s so confidential & why? With this much dissention (quitting,firing,whatever) it’s gotta make ya’ wonder what it’s really like at the top of q-amway after all as of sept. 1 you will notify people about the amway name change. Nothing for or against TEAM, what about us regular IBO’s who won’t be able to sponsor anymore. I would not have sighned in amway apparently the iboia is a puppet board, they didn’t want the change either but it happened. They wanted lower pricing, didn’t happen. Hmmm sounds like regardless of what happens to TEAM it’s just the beggining of Q/A’s problems
August 26th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
GirlPower #166,
I think he is referring to the QBOB, which replaces the SA4400, and has a direct reference to the change back to Amway in 2009.
knp #167,
Maybe they didn’t give you potential customers because you didn’t meet the activity requirements. You may also have a lot of Platinums in your area. Perhaps the people calling in are really TEAM IBO’s and they are flooding the phones. Wouldn’t surprise me at all. Maybe all of the publicity is “backfiring” on TEAM, and there is more interest in the business because of all the publicity - “Gee Martha, isn’t Amway/Quixtar the company that Aunt Becky used to brag about how good their products are? Let’s call that company and ask for one of those TEAM folks and find out for ourselves if the products are reasonably priced.” Or, maybe Hillary is right, it’s a vast right-wing conspiracy. Maybe it’s some high school or college kids pulling a prank. Maybe it’s a test from Quixtar to see if you would actually even attempt to sell something when a customer is dropped into your lap, as Orrin trained you so effectively to do. If you don’t make some sort of attempt to sell them something, the lawsuit is as good as over.
Why would the corp ask for input from the people that are ripping off their very own IBO’s via tool profits and making much more on tools than Quixtar, while they refer to as “business partners” and “teammates”? I wouldn’t. Why would the remaining Board members raise a stink? They’re making too much tool profits, especially now, with all of them frothing at the mouth over the vast TEAM market that is now open to them.
Rick #168,
Be careful what you are “always faithful” about.
knp #169,
That is a TEMPORARY restraining order, we’ll soon see how long it remains in force.
Conan_78 #170,
Neither of us knows enough about the issues to ask for our money back. I know I only recently reported the abuses to Quixtar, so perhaps this action, and perhaps others saying similar things, caused Quixtar to take a closer look at the tools, or how they were actually being used, rather than how they were told how they were being used.
TEAM IBO #173,
Thanks for your input. Do you realize you just cross-lined, big time?
August 27th, 2007 at 12:05 am
Tex,
I still believe their is a case that the tools systems are illegal, they exist with no other customer base except who is below them. The top people make money even though it doesn’t go all the way to the bottom. Just my opinion.
August 27th, 2007 at 12:11 am
My feeling about Ron Simmons posted here is conflicted. Though I would never want to restrict anyones free speech…but considering he is sueing Quixtar, isn’t he?….then it would seem not quite prudent for Quixtar to post his comments…since I believe he should distance himself from these forums and put his feelings in his law suit. They should be talking through their attorneys right now. If he isn’t in the law suit then disregard, it’s been awhile since I read it.
August 27th, 2007 at 12:37 am
Forgot to issue a press release on these court rulings?
http://crazyfunwildworld.blogspot.com/2007/08/team-quixtar-crows-too-soon-about-court.html
August 27th, 2007 at 12:58 am
Tex,
I’ve read that a lot of people think you’re a Alticor employee, is that true. And why do you feel the need to respond to so many people on the blog? Most of the posts I’ve seen from you are addressing the comments of others. And if you’re wondering why I’m directing this to you, it’s because I’m curious.
Eric
August 27th, 2007 at 8:34 am
Tex - Read the book ‘The seven habits of Highly effective people’ You will learn how to seek first to understand, then to be understood.
Then read - ‘How to have power and confidence in dealing with people’ - You will learn to listen, not just lash out at others.
While your at it read - ‘The servant’ - You will learn about leading others by serving them. ‘The 17 essential quilities of a team player’,'Eat that frog’, ‘Wooden’, ‘Developing the leader within you’, ‘Atitude is everything’, ‘Character Counts’, ‘The great connection’, ‘The Transparent Leader II’, ‘The Go-Getter’, ‘Critical Choices that change lives’ and ‘The majic of thinking big’
See what I have learned is that ‘Leaders are Readers’ These are books in our system, the one you mock. Our system is the best out there. Because it took someone like me, who was going no where, and has helped me become a leader. Quixtar has given me the training ground to develop these leadership skills that I learn, of which I am thankful. However, Quixtar no longer wants me to learn about leadership, they want me to learn about how to just sell their products. Thankfully I have a TEAM that has shown me how to become a better person.
THANKS TEAM LEADERSHIP!
UNITED WE STAND!
August 27th, 2007 at 9:57 am
Looks like Orrin and Brady - TEAM - has commissioned their clan to the internet again.
Real IBOS, if you are concerned by all the TEAM propaganda - Fear Not - go to a meeting!
My local open is smoking! For 3 weeks, we are saying the Amway name and educating them on it, getting outstanding responce.
We are having 30-50% guests every week. Fired Up!
Complaining TEAM ibos - enjoy poverty.
August 27th, 2007 at 10:57 am
SAM WALTON and QUIXTAR. Under “Raves for Made in America,” the first page in my copy of Sam Walton’s Made in America, H. Ross Perot says of Walton, “Sam Walton set the standard for listening to his customers and listening to the people who do the work.”
This was mostly true of Rich and Jay, founders of Amway, and Rich was fond of saying that his “distributors were the company’s only true customers.”
In this way Sam Walton built the largest corporation in the World. What happened to “Amway”, which started off so well?
To the casual observer, it appears that Quixtar’s North American market sales are showing anemic growth rates, hardly a trend which will take its $1B sales to the $5B level.
But we did hear that in the days when large profits in the manufacturing sector were common, Jay initiated a 300% Value Added Contribuiton (VAC)–if the company had been a government, this would havve been called a Value Added Tax (VAT), which dampens growth everywhere it occurs–and that this VAC, or “J3″ as it is sometimes called, is now largely responsible for Quixtar’s uncompetitively high prices.
If the present trend continues, it looks as if the founding families’ income will stagnate as well. But imagine what would happen if this VAC were reduced!
And let’s say that 7% then went to reduce the pricing structure at the manufacturing level and another 3% at the “distribution level” went towards incrreased bonuses and incentives, etc., to the field.
It doesn’t take an Adam Smith to recognize that this would most likely result in 10%–even 20%– annual growth in the North American market.
And everyone lives happily ever after. The IBO’s take the company’s sales figures to new heights, and the founding families’ income increases dramatically.
August 27th, 2007 at 11:00 am
Moderator:
As the corp is aware, there are other organizations that teach stacking.
So what is next?
Are you cleaning house? Or did you simply wish to make an example someone?
August 27th, 2007 at 11:12 am
Ron Simmons,
Please comment on the IBOAI Board blog, August 26th update. It cuts at the heart of the TEAM lawsuit.
August 27th, 2007 at 11:33 am
MarDJay - first of all it’s a myth that you need “outside customers” to not be a pyramid. It’s possible to not be a pyramid and be entirely “internal consumption” - however, having outside customers offers clear proof there is legitimate demand for your products and people don’t just buy them cause of some “quota”. Having said that, BSM has *plenty* of outside customers. In most BSM operations all the folk who aren’t platinum or above are outside customers. They make no money reselling the BSM, they get no bonuses on BSM - they’re simply customers. They’re not “participating in the scheme” in legal parlance, and what’s more they’re paying full price.
August 27th, 2007 at 11:34 am
Hey Q.. why dont you tell the whole legal story of what happened that day? There was alot more to the day than that.. amazing that you left out the pieces that you got spanked on just to spin it in your favor?
August 27th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
#158 santhony:
The TEAM will have a million people for what?
Let me guess… WORLD DOMINATION? Maybe they’ll build a NEW & IMPROVED PYRAMID. Until the FTC tells them to cut it out, just like Q finally did.
The now defunct TEAM is not going to do anything more than continue to try to make a buck off of sheep who desperately need to cling to something. If they reach a million, my well deserved congrats to Orrin. His pockets will be that much fatter.
August 27th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
This is all good reading, yes you can tell who is a amway person and who is not.. but after all the mud slinging who really cares … did you hear about all the people who died in india?? now that is a problem,,,
August 27th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
Tex,
Haha yes, as team-illegal as my statement was I have always had a problem with the way the team works. Hopefully when this is over it will be a clear and easy decision to stick with quixtar.
To put another spin on my previous statement, No one seems to know whats happening or going to happen with this deal so a good view from the sidelines will probablly make everyones mind clear up from the mud-slinging and slander that has been going on.
To everyone:
In the end make an informed decision about your own future. Also know WHY your making that decision. Dont follow your upline for the sake of following. Crunch the facts and use your own judgement.
August 27th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Hey #63: I read the over-40-something-pages complaint filed in LA *long before* posting here. The whole thing read like a whine-fest and went on for years (not months). “The biz” may have changed over the course of 13 yrs, but it only took me 3 MONTHS to realize the complaints in that court document.
Not disgruntled, just found that this whole thing wasn’t for me, especially when things started going to court. I don’t want to build a business on shaky ground.
August 27th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
boogybren #174,
Well stated.
George’s Girl #176,
Since when is giving opinions such a bad thing? Are you so used to getting “spoon fed” from your upline you can’t think for yourself?
Where would you like me to start, in explaining “everything in life” to you?
Work for the major media? Are you serious? Talk about one-sided agendas and lack of truth. No wonder you’re so confused, maybe I should start with explaining the media to you….
Saved #177,
Maybe you should stop paying the Board and ignore them until they accomplish something. That’s what I’m doing. No taxation without representation, sound familiar?
MarDJay #179/180,
The problems with calling this illegal are:
1. What law are they breaking?
2. It is well known they make money, and has been for a very long time, and it has not been shut down.
Technically, Ron is not part of the lawsuit (the one in California, and the TRO in Texas is not really a lawsuit, it only gives him some time to argue his case before Quixtar takes unilateral action). However, he is a mouthpiece for TEAM and I’m sure he is saying things (and refusing to say other things, sometimes silence speaks louder than words) that will prove to be very beneficial to the corp and us IBO’s. I’m surprised the TEAM lawyers haven’t told him to keep his mouth shut.
Bill Smith #181,
At least they let YOU post them here, unlike the freetheibo forum, where they have kicked off several people for not doing the TEAM robot march.
Lewis #182,
I am not an employee in any way related to the Alticor family of companies. I am an Independent Business Owner, and have been concerned about the tool profit issue for over 2 years. I have decided my role is to educate others, and this latest “dust up” has enabled me to reach many more IBO’s than previously.
jthompson #183,
TEAM - Together Everyone Achieves More (lawyer debt)
MichMan #185,
They thought “Orrin” was a funny name. Had to get rid of it.
Seriously, Orrin broke the rules. There is appropriate and inappropriate stacking. One is good. One is bad. Orrin was doing the bad. Orrin was offered help to be good. Orrin declined. Orrin was terminated. End of story.
Rick #190,
Are you suggesting we drop everything and head off to India?
Kristin #192,
Looks like ANY kind of business isn’t for you. Lawsuits are a part of business life.
August 27th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
IBOfightback,
you said “BSM has *plenty* of outside customers. In most BSM operations all the folk who aren’t platinum or above are outside customers.”
all I have to say is….
BUNK!
August 27th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
Why all the fuss? Looks like Rich agrees with the arguments made by Team!
“Very simply put, free enterprise happens when freedom of people is recognized as an inherent right stemming from the Creator, and that freedom is safeguarded(as ours is) in the structure of government organization. In the free enterprise system, the manufacturer or businessman owns his own tools, risks his own money, sets his own prices, makes his own decisions, and makes or loses money depending on how well he provides the public with a product or service which it wants at a price it is willing to pay.
Richard M Devos from his book Believe Pages,79
“Free enterprise is really simple. It is a system in which the individual has the right to conduct his business in whatever way he chooses, and keep the benefits of his work.” Richard M Devos from his book Believe page 91
On the topic of competition:
Quoting Adam Smith “Smith argued that the invisible hand is a powerful force in ensuring that society gets the products it wants at a price it’s willing to pay”
“Be glade for competition. It makes the system work”
READ THIS ONE CLOSELY!!!!!
“Understand and respect each individuals conflict between self-interest and conscience. Examine and re-examine your own heart and your own business practices to keep both sides in balance”
Richard M Devos from his book Compassionate Capitalism page 109, 118 and 119
August 27th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Ron Simmons Says:
August 24th, 2007 at 8:00 pm
Why has my post not been listed? It was sent sometime ago - before the latest post?
Thanks
Ron
What is going on?
How much time does “legal department” need?
Maybe “legal department” is a ploy to censor what the “Company” doesn’t want to admit to.
TRUTH!
There is always 2 sides to every story, one of them is the TRUTH. So far I only read one side on this blog.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Are you guys that are from team not understanding what TRO’S are? TROs were granted in the Michigan case as well, but team still lost. TRO are just to protect both parties to make sure they do not do anything before the court can rule. Now I am not saying team won’t win in any of those cases, but so far you have not won any court cases anywhere. TRO’s are not rulings. Temporary restraining Orders, Meaning TEMPORARY, not permanent.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
It seems that the logical thing would be that the TEAM IBOs have to play by the rules, wait the 6 months, and then do what they want. Why is this surprising? Of course the judge ruled in favor of Quixtar- it’s the only thing that makes sense.
I have not been impressed by TEAM’s approach at all. And my experience has been one that they seem to mention Quixtar as an afterthought, if at all, but it’s really only about TEAM. Actually folks you are Quixtar IBOs not TEAM IBOs. Quixtar is the thing that fuels your future. Quixtar is the thing that makes it possible for you to achieve your dreams. Good luck trying to find something that comes close.
I have been around since the Amway days and see nothing wrong with going by Amway again. I was proud to be an Amway IBO and I still am. There was never really a difference between the 2 anyways. And people never gave me any trouble when we showed the plan for Amway. Only a handful had ever had some sort of negative experience. Amway has lifted itself way above the negative stuff people had with IBOs in the past. It is a great company and I am proud to be a part of it. (and no I don’t work there!)
Seroiusly, I will be interested to see how the Woodward followers do in the future. I honestly can’t imagine a better company and it will be interesting to see how they do with whatever they choose. I hope it doesn’t turn out badly for them as they walk away from what I see as the best opportunity out there.
August 27th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Tex,
While our expirience in TEAM meetings are very different (IE I’ve been to them, you seem not to have) you seem to freely admit that TEAM does not stack as Q has claimed they were terminated for. Yet you side with Q because you don’t like the fact that free tools are a very bad idea.
So, if you trust Q, why did the TEAM diamonds get canned? We both know that it wasn’t for stacking as they don’t do that.
We can only conclude that Q lied about why the TEAM diamonds were terminated. Why would they lie? And what is the real reason TEAM was fired?
Think about it.
MODERATOR: Are you ever gonna get around to posting Ron’s statement?
August 27th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Mr. Simmons: Your comment is now posted in its entirety. Your concerns were noted, as well; the delay was unavoidable. Notwithstanding unforeseen circumstances, further submissions from you shall be reviewed and approved in a more timely manner. Thank you for your patience.
August 27th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Thank you moderator for finally getting to Ron Simmons post #69 so we many read his comments.
Make sure to roll back up and read Ron’s posting at 69 if you missed it since it took three days to be approved to post.
Now if the post he did in the IBOAI blog would just get posted as well.
#181 Ron Simmons is not on the CA Class Action suit - however he did file a TRO after threat of termination/suspention of his business and those in his downline.
August 27th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
It would be nice if we could go back to August 1st.
That was before the Corporation terminated anyone and before any lawsuits. I believe both were major errors. I believe I have lost thousands of dollars of my time simply dealing with the stress of this apparent divorce.
1. With 16 years of product loyalty, I do not want to go somewhere else. SA8 and DoubleX are still the best…
2. With that much time, I am offended that the Corporation decided to switch the name back to Amway without telling all the IBO’s, let alone asking.
3. I am amazed that they terminated any IBO’s without following the hearing/process stated by the rules.
4. I am amazed that some IBO’s filed the Calif. lawsuit in the 1st place.
5. That being said, I like many IBO’s have loyalty to both sides. The question is which side to choose, when there is not enough information about either direction. Luckily for me, neither side is asking for me to decide right now.
6. I appreciate people like Ron Simmons who have been nice and tried to show both sides. I don’t have any reason to doubt his truthfulness. The problem is we do not have any cool heads telling the other side of the story from the Corporation side. All the information posts from the Corporation have been angry and mean. Based on the IBOAI and the Coporation press releases, the only person I think I could trust to tell the other side would be Jody Victor.
Any chance we could get a post from Jody Victor, similar to Ron Simommons 1st post a week or so ago? Since the Victors have chosen to stay with the Corporation on this, it would be nice to really understand why.
Too many people are acting like they are still 14 years old.
August 27th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
>>>Big Apple said: The only thing IBOs know is to try to sell on price. That would be like trying to sell a Cadillac against a Chevrolet based on price alone.
August 27th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
MarDJay #114
Did you actually list YouTube as a source?
Wow! You’re more diluted than I thought.
August 27th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
KNP: You’re losing me here. Is there something about your comment that is missing?
August 27th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
Sorry, on my screen all my comments say “awaiting moderation”. Are they posted? They look to me like they aren’t.
August 27th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
Wow MLM Nightmare, you’re really hurting aren’t you?
August 27th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
KNP: By now, should be. If not, let us know.
August 27th, 2007 at 11:28 pm
People of integrity expect to be believed, and if they are not, time will prove them right. Team will be proven right! Quixtar is lacking integrity, and if they keep this up, DeVos will not have a chance in getting elected.
August 27th, 2007 at 11:32 pm
rroney
Really? You think because it is listed on you tube it isn’t real….give me abreak that was just the easiest link to post. That video has been verified and been around for years…did you watch it…I think not…brain dead people usually don’t.
August 27th, 2007 at 11:36 pm
In response to IBO #200, your opinion of the name change not being a big thing. I wish I lived where you did and showed the plan to the people you do who don’t care about the name. To this day, when we show the plan, we are asked, “Is this Amway?” It will put a damper on most people’s business, but I guess not yours so congratulations. I happen to know the leaders of the team very well and if you only knew the truth of the character behind these couples, I really believe your comments wouldn’t be so harsh against them. I am a stay at home mom not only from Quixtar income, but because I was taught by my incredible mentors how to deal with our finances, how to deny myself things I didn’t need. I will be eternally grateful for the income we have recieved from Quixtar. But I don’t like being called property as if they could care less what they’ve done for me and my family. The TEAM will prevail in doing what is right. Orrin will not be going off on his yacht and leave us all behind. He’s just doing all he can so we can all be with him in the future.
Good luck in the new Amway.
August 27th, 2007 at 11:39 pm
So for those of you just joining us, you really need to go and read all of the facts from Ron Simmons on #69. He has been right smack dab in the middle of all of the legal dealings. He is just giving facts, not an opinion. You have heard the saying - opinions are like armpits - everyone has them and some times they can stink. Go to the facts! I don’t believe Tex had any set in on the IBOAI board!
August 27th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
TEAM LISTEN….
Quixtar is only your supplier, right??? I heard that for years and years….oh, just tell ‘em that Quixtar is our supplier the business is TEAM.
Try this on for size:
If I own a retail store and supply it with, oh say Coke…and then I decide I don’t like Coke anymore……..then I stop using them as my supplier for soda.
If Quixtar was just your “supplier” then all of these law suits would NEVER happen….couldn’t happen.
This is what you all get for lieing to me and to so many others that woke up and stopped drinking the purple Koolaid.
LISTEN…”QUIXTAR WAS NOT AND IS NOT YOUR SUPPLIER”
You signed a contract!
August 27th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
Has anyone forgotten that Orrin and Chris filed a lawsuit against Quixtar? Claiming that it’s an illegal pyramid? Has anyone forgotten that this is why all this ugliness started?
Quixtar did not go for Orrin and Gang’s lame “Amicable Separation” agreement. And since now (by presenting a separtation agreement) Orrin and Gang had disclosed that they were “separating” aka resigning, Quixtar did the next formal step and issued termination papers.
They were terminated because they had already resigned. It’s standard business procedure.
And Orrin and Gang didn’t get their way. They didn’t get their “Amicable Separation Agreement” accepted by the Corp. So what did they do? They slapped a bogus (very poorly written, I might add) the-products-are-overpriced-therefore-it’s-an-illegal-pyramid lawsuit on the Corp.
Why oh why would ANYBODY think a multi-billion dollar GLOBAL company WOULDN’T take someone to task for calling their business illegal?
“No, we’re not raiding your LOS, we’re just going to let all our downline, and ALL IBOs for that matter, think the Quixtar business is illegal.”
Please, Ron #69, the bogus lawsuit is EXACTLY being used in this way.
BTW, the retention rate is low NOT because the business isn’t fantastic. The rentention rate is low because 75% of those sponsored as IBOs shouldn’t have been sponsored in the first place. They aren’t Business Owners. Many have absolutely no intention of selling a product or sponsoring people. They might have been signed up just to get a deal on some products.
August 28th, 2007 at 12:10 am
Okay People, Tex keeps wondering why no one will show him the amount that people make from tool volume. Ron Simmons, Legacy CEO, (who has the right information) points out the answer to Tex’s question that he has been asking over and over again. Go to freetheibo.com and check out “Setting the Record Straight” responses on page 4 under rons942. I, too, am all about getting out the truth!!!
August 28th, 2007 at 12:13 am
Oh yeah, after the Ron Simmons blog, you can read the letter that a lot of leading IBOs got beginning with Dear XXXXXXX IBO,. Very interesting! Don’t take my word for it, check it out yourself.
August 28th, 2007 at 12:15 am
please read post #69 very informed and if you are a part of team, knp, they wont post you until they can hide your comments in the middle of the pages
August 28th, 2007 at 1:44 am
I was thinking about this whole “IBO’s are property of Quixtar” thing, and it dawned on me… Can anyone who works at the Q/A office tell me the name of even one of my children. Do they know anything about me other than an Ibo number. Did they even ask if or how Hurricane Rita affected our lives? If it damaged the house or had an affect on our business. Can they tell you where I work? Where I worship? A single hobby or the denomination of my church? Q thinks I am their property… Slaves were considered property yet I am confident that slave owners knew more about their slaves than Q knows about me.
The only investment Q has ever made on my behalf was a platinum seminar in Ada where I saw product demos and was told Home Depot was becoming a partner store. (By the way, nearly five years later and I am still waiting for that to happen… kinda like waiting for lower prices)
Let’s compare that with what Orrin knows. He can tell you all three of my kids names and get really close with ages as well. (I even mess up the ages) He has sat with my mother when she was ill, has helped me address issues in my marraige, helped me indentify some character flaws and helped me develop a concrete plan to correct them. He has counseled me on numerous occasions on more than just business issues. He has been to my home at his own personal expense numerous times, which is a mere 1322 miles from his home. He has been to my church and broke bread with my pastor. Why Orrin actually missed a family funeral as to not break the commitment he had made to come to Texas and work with my TEAM. I only found this out a couple of years later, because he was so focused on serving us he never mentioned what was going on in his life at the time.
His wife Laurie has invested numerous hours into mentoring my wife and has been a major influence in our marraige. They have a whole lot more invested in me than Q, yet right now all they are doing is what they has always done. They are SERVING us and every other IBO out there, fighting tooth and nail for an opportunity we can all win with.
To quixtar… I am a number and their property.
To Orrin… I am a TEAM member, a friend and a child of God whom he feels compelled to serve.
There is no choice to be made… We will be standing with Orrin when TEAM goes to a million people.
August 28th, 2007 at 5:47 am
#131 richard if you only new. Who made xs what it is today people man. you the IBO not quixtar not xs The IBO.
You guys don’t get it we are in a people business that happens to have products.
The corporation and many of you still think that you are in product business that just happens to have people.
People move products. Products don’t move people.
So to answer you it doesn’t matter what products we have, as long as the product can be consumed and afforded by the masses.
The thing is just think how much more profit sharing there is going to be on the products when that 40 to 60 percent the corp is keeping off us is payed back in profit sharing with Team.
Its called the consumer rebellion.
Making history going to a million.
August 28th, 2007 at 9:49 am
Why does only the first half-sentence appear on my #205 comment?
Did the rest get “filtered”?
August 28th, 2007 at 10:31 am
Tex: Your comment from Aug 28, 12:46 AM is long. Care to resubmit in chunks? Much obliged.
MichMan: Not to our knowledge. The comment as shown is what we saw in the moderation queue. We see that many of your comments tend to be one-liners from others’ comments. Perhaps a cut and paste goof?
August 28th, 2007 at 10:57 am
#220 Steve:
I’m sure Orrin is a good man. I’m sure he’s helped you become a better person.
However, Quixtar is a retail business. IBOs are DISTRIBUTORS of QUIXTAR PRODUCTS. Orrin was using Quixtar as a guise to move his motivational BSMs that had NOTHING TO DO with Quixtar.
He could have resigned long ago and become a motivational speaker rather than using Quixtar as a platform to sell his words rather than products. Do you really not see a problem there?
It was not a very truthful way to do business. I wish him luck w/his motivational business. The TEAM will never be a competitor of Quixtar. Quixtar isn’t selling blind faith. They’re selling cosmetics, vitamins and laundry essentials through distributors. What was TEAM distributing? Faith… and how to be a better person/spouse/parent/etc. Great, but inappropriate to sell in a MLM.
August 28th, 2007 at 11:22 am
#180
It is interesting on how we percieve something in this business differently than in anything else. First thing to understand is, IBO’s are part of the IBOAI and Quixtar of course there is discussion on who truly governs the IBO’s however being an IBO does not make us part of the TEAM, the team is a supplier of “tools” What that means is we pay for a product and we get the product which makes us customers not an internal part of the Team, So yes they have customers, everyone the people buying stuff fromt the team is a customer. As part of their corp. buisness plan they do what many other companies do and reward those by rebating those people that bring more to the table, For example SAM’s vs walmart. If my small business needs some coffee and a small container from walmart will last me a year, I go to Walmart and get it, and pay a certain price which equates to a price per ounce, Joe from down the street goes through coffee at record paces, he goes to SAM’s and gets a huge amount and the cost per once goes way down. So the guys on the top(big business owner) get a better price for the coffee then the guys at the bottom(small business owner)I personally think it is great that their is money to be made there, I spent a lot of money at college and they haven’t ever paid me money for being successful in what they taught.
August 28th, 2007 at 11:29 am
MarDJay #196,
I discussed this with the rules department in detail a few months ago. IBO’s are considered retail customers for the tools. You’re allowed to have a different opinion about this, but there have probably been a lot of lawyers who have spent a lot of hours looking at this issue from a legal perspective.
KNP #197,
Rich also said, in 1983, “The Amway Corporation does in excess of a billion. If we only did ten percent — not just in books and tapes; but let’s talk about rallies and all the other things we tell our people to pay for; put it all together.
Let’s assume we’re taking out a hundred million dollars a year. We have placed a maximum on tapes and books at two hundred million that we would allow. I don’t know what you might allow. But when you get into those kinds of numbers, if you want to hear a scandal, just read about it in the papers. You present wonderful numbers on the blackboard about all the money they can make. Maybe you ought to tell them about all you’re going to take from them before they make any. Maybe that would be the rest of the story. But, you see, those are fantastic numbers. Our legal people tell us, “Boy, if it gets over ten percent!” Finally, they agreed, that maybe somewhere between ten and twenty is acceptable. Maybe that would be considered reasonable by governmental authorities. We assume it will be. We really hope it never gets to those numbers.”
I think we blew past 20% a long time ago. I suggest you read and/or listen to these recordings in their entirety, which can be found at http://www.amquix.info/amway_directly_speaking.html
looking4truth #198,
Hold your horses. It takes time for the lawyers to analyze the post into part of their preparation for the California lawsuit. At least it’s going to show up eventually, unlike me and several others getting kicked off of the freetheibo forum for asking questions they didn’t appreciate.
IBO #200,
What is logical and what some lawyer can talk their client into doing to buy mama a new car are two different things altogether.
Jerad #201,
I have been to the TEAM meetings. Strike one!
I don’t know how TEAM stacks, and never said I did. I said I complained about other issues. There were other issues they were terminated for, not just inappropriate stacking. Strike two!
I don’t follow the “Yet you side with Q because you don’t like the fact that free tools are a very bad idea.” Please explain. Foul ball!
They got canned because they were told they were breaking the rules and refused to even talk about correcting themselves. Strike three! You’re OUT!
YOU can only conclude that Q lied about why the TEAM diamonds were terminated. That is not my conclusion. Plus, you already struck, hit the showers. Why would they lie? I can’t think of a single reason. And what is the real reason TEAM was fired? I already told you. Now hit the showers, TEAM player. Think about it.
August 28th, 2007 at 11:30 am
Ron #69,
You don’t “loose” credibility, you “lose” credibility, which you managed to do in your first sentence.
1. I always heard about 2/3’s, but I can go with 3/4. Not much different than other MLM’s, is it?
2. Orrin and Chris are behind the freetheibo forum, aren’t they? They don’t need to disparage the company, their Gestapo is well trained. I think the charge was not raiding other LOS’s, but other LOA’s.
3. I think the charge was they told the company they were going to start another MLM, which is a rule violation. Are you saying the new MLM was going to be the TEAM training program?
4. TRO’s provide TEMPORARY relief, and the nature of the Michigan topics was fundamentally different than the other state TRO’s. I’m with you on the arbitration process, it has been declared “unconscionable” by two federal judges (Kenny Stewart tool profit case), and probably should be challenged in court again, to ensure the changes made remove it from the “unconscionable” category. Tell Orrin thanks for paying his lawyers to make this legal determination. He’s quite a guy. And his lawyer’s wife can now “dream bigger” for that new car mentioned above.
5. Looks like all 3 of your points are now coming to fruition. We will be able to tell in a few days or weeks. Looks to me like someone has Amway-itis and/or premature resignation.
My question also remains the same. Why not just follow the rules and go away, with the required 6 month/2 year waiting periods? If they make an exception for Orrin and Co., the next group will want a 30 day grace period. Rules are there for a purpose.
Plus, the same question of how much is made by the typical Platinum and above on tools, since Orrin and Co. are no longer IBO’s? You demand answers but aren’t very good at providing your own. Never mind, looks like my answer is here: http://www.shauncarter.com/2007/08/how-i-think-team-could-win-part-2/
6. Do you mean the California lawsuit? Did I ever say it wasn’t in the federal courts? If I said or implied differently, I sit corrected. What are the words in the lawsuit, page 46, section V, forth bullet? Here’s a link: http://team_orrin_woodward.typepad.com/orrin_woodward/files/Complaint.pdf
Are you pulling our leg?
“Love”,
Tex/Ext.
August 28th, 2007 at 11:30 am
RH #203,
Yes, thank you moderator. It was getting a bit “slow” on these pages, and I don’t mean lack of number of posts, just the level of comment quality.
Utah #204,
Jody…Victor? Are you serious? Have you ever heard of the term “a snake in the grass”? Do you know Jody was accused of “training” the arbitrators to reach the “correct” answer during the Stewart arbitration, which was ruled as “unconscionable” by 2 federal judges?
MichMan #205,
Do you have a point?
rroney #206,
Did you watch the video? Do you realize it is an actual video of former TIF Diamond Andy Andrews shortly prior to being terminated? Also, the term is “deluded”, as “diluted” is something you do to LOC.
Moderator #207,
Nothing missing, he’s just trying to misuse Rich’s ideas. I already took care of that, above.
KNP #208,
Don’t be concerned, it’s just a conspiracy. I don’t have this problem over on freetheibo, they just ban me, and several others, for asking questions. Guess I should have added the right words to my posts over there, “Heil, Orrin!”
August 28th, 2007 at 11:41 am
Steve #221,
Did Orrin pay you for the PV you generated? Isn’t that the big picture?
Faith #222,
Good luck finding a supplier that will perform like Amway/Quixtar has for almost half a century. Many folks have made the statements you just made, and they are now nowhere to be seen.
MichMan #223,
What do you mean by “filtered”? If you want to see “filtering”, go to the freetheibo forum, they filter with a check valve. For those who don’t know what a check valve is, it only allows flow in one direction. In the case of freetheibo, it MUST be pro-Orrin. Best if you use the terms “Sir”, or “Your Excellency”, or “May I please approach your most High Graciousness?”
August 28th, 2007 at 11:54 am
Faith
Just how do you propose that TEAM operate if they do not take a cut of the product profit? Do you think that a business magically runs itself? Do you think that products just magically appear on your doorstep without warehouses, staff and shipping? And the big one, do you really think that the leaders of TEAM will put in place and run all of this without taking a cut? Business is in business to make money. People go into business to make money. Quixtar, Orrin - it is all the same and it is all about the money. If it wasn’t, the many many lies told (or told by not telling) by Orrin and ALL TEAM members that follow his teachings, would not be necessary.
Please do not take this as support for Quixtar or their practices as it is not meant in that light. It is meant to bring some reality to the discussion rather than the blind devotion to Orrin that way to many people on this blog seem to have. Take a step back and look at the whole picture through objective eyes.
August 28th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
Big Apple said: “The only thing IBOs know is to try to sell on price. That would be like trying to sell a Cadillac against a Chevrolet based on price alone.”
BA, your example illustrates the brilliant strategy of General Motors.
GM manufactures a luxury car for those with that taste, AND one for the masses. If AQ was to use the same strategy, they would market a $1.99 bottle of hair gel next to their Cadillac priced $7.00 bottle.
But AQ only manufactures/distributes “Cadillac” toothpase, “Cadillac” toilet paper, “Cadillac” coffee, “Cadillac” furniture polish, “Cadillac” shampoo, etc.
If the public really wanted “Cadillac” priced consumables, most inactive ibos would stay in the business to buy the products. But they quit instead.
August 28th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
Tex
I have read a lot of the posts on these forums. In reading your posts, and as they go on and on, over and over and over and over……..S.S.D.D.!
Tell ya what. When it’s all said and done, it’s all about achieving results, right?
So let’s put it all out on the table. regardless of your position, let’s have a friendly competetion. We will meet back here in 12 and then again 24 months to compare results.
No more BS. No more conjecture. No more rhetoric. No more opinions. No more endless debates. No more stats. Strictly results, measured in business volume. Then we will all know the score. As Vince Lombardi once said: Stats are for losers, points are for winners. All you have to do is score more points using your method. Then we will know, once and for all, plain and simple.
After all, if you really believe what you say here, shouldn’t be a problem winning, right?
That is, if you don’t mind stepping on the field of play, where winning is measured by performance, and criticism is left to those on the sidelines.
August 28th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
It is understood by me and others that along with the name change from Quixtar to Amway, Amway will also being doing away with partner stores and affiliates. Does this bother anyone besides me? I have based my business on focusing on partner stores and services due to the FACT that Amway products are not price competitive. This I have observed on my own without any TEAM or any other organization to chime in (or brainwash) my opinion. I know that some of you will say that partner stores and services don’t pay enough for you to care, but for the few of you that do what would you do about the current problem? I have a good size organization and it makes me sad to know that mine and my teams hardwork may virtually collapse upon the completion of the Amway transition. What happened to the mutual trust? In conclusion I look forward to see the comments regarding mine, and am anxiously awaiting the outcome of all this nonsense.
August 28th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
BK,
To answer a question with a question, How does Wal-Mart generate billions with it’s prices? They too have warehouses, staff and shipping.
To all of you - Orrin and the rest of the top leaders in question HAVE been trying to fix things for years, and when the door to reform is slammed in their face, they respectfully asked for a peaceful separation.
Furthermore, anybody that thinks Orrin is just after the money does not know him at all. His proven philosophy is that all business must be Win-Win or it’s no deal. Pay for performance, not position.
Finally, nobody has blind devotion to Orrin - he references all if his sources and facts so people can investigate and think for themselves.
Respectfully, George Bailey
August 28th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
I would also love to see what Richard DeVos, Jr. thinks about all of this. No matter what side you are on, this whole conflict cannot be good for his 2008 Governor campaign. He should really be looking into what Jim Payne and Quixtar’s legal department are doing… maybe he could help mediate and become the hero???
Respectfully, George Bailey
August 28th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
From what I have seen here, not one person who has been against what Team is doing and has stood up for Quixtar has addressed the changes. Things like 1. Future bonuses payments are at the “discretion of Amway” 2. Starting in Sep. the info you are required to give out has Amway all over it. The name change in 18 to 24 months is semantics. I even had a representative at the corporation hesitate and try getting around telling me this info and he is getting paid by the hour. To believe that the corporation has your best interest at heart would be very naive at best. People are shooting at Orrin but I haven’t heard anything about the Devos and VanAndel family’s. Who do you think makes more? It doesn’t matter if it is clean and quick or drawn out and messy Team will move on and what’s left will be free to run around and sell Amway products again.
August 28th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Tex is posting about 8% of thi blog; he has become noise-annoying background interference that is tolerated and ignored. He is by no means the lone offender, others are bloggig themselves out of the discussion.
Perhaps, Mr. Moderator, you might cansider a cap on posts per topic or total words or something to help the overly verbose limit themselves to the productive and take the junkl mail out of this discussion.
August 28th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
Miss Utah #233,
(No relation as far as I know…)
Where did you get the idea find out that Partner stores will be dropped with the change? I downloaded a copy of the new SA4400 replacement 12 page color with the change to Amway on page 2. (It was on Quixtar.com, and then I couldn’t find it..)
I have not read anything anywhere about partner stores being affected. I can believe they would, but have nothing to back that up..
Where did this come from..?
August 28th, 2007 at 9:18 pm
GirlPower #224,
What you say about Orrin and TEAM is true, and it is true about most of the other tool systems as well. He and the others that were booted just weren’t willing to keep their heads down like the others who are feeding at the same tool profit trough. Pigs Don’t Know Pigs Stink, after all.
Chris #225,
College was an entirely different situation. Did your college tell you they were your business partner or teammate, did they ever misrepresent where they made the majority of their money?
MichMan #231,
That is part of what the Partner Stores are for, I found a 16 oz. hair gel for $2.40. Not much PV, but you could only get so much PV/BV out of $2.40 to begin with, right? You DO understand the PV/BV bonus comes out of the price, right? This is one of the reasons Quixtar makes high quality items.
Ohio IBO #232,
A bit testy today, are we? I googled ssdd, and wiki gave 3 choices. Did you mean Single Sided, Double Density, System/Subsystem Design Description, or the other one?
The reason for me being here is so I don’t blindly go out into the field, build a business using my time, effort, and money, then find out the needed fixes are not made, and the entire thing collapses. Tune down your testosterone dial and think for a change. The internet is eating up the already damaged reputation of this business, and if we don’t ensure the appropriate changes are made, it will all be wasted. So “no thanks” to your offer.
Miss Utah #233,
Where did you get the information the Partner Stores are going away? I am willing to be wrong, but I smell TEAM rumor-mongering. My sense is the Partner Stores are a relatively easy thing to manage, as the Partner Stores handle all stocking, ordering, payment, delivery, and guarantee/warranty issues. Moderator?
August 28th, 2007 at 9:40 pm
George Bailey #234/5,
Walmart has a much different business model. What makes you keep thinking we are trying to compete with Walmart?
Quixtar has been talking about major changes, starting this fall, for several months. Didn’t Orrin get the memo? Also, his departure was far from peaceful, he tried to get a special and secret deal, which would have enabled him to start a new competing MLM without having to comply with the rules.
Win-Win? Sounds like Orrin wins, but only if Orrin wins. See special secret deal and wanting a pass on the rules, above.
The only thing that was missing from the Opens and Seminars I attended were the altars and human sacrifices.
I think DeVos is out of the loop. He is focused on closet organizers and the political scene. Doug and Steve are doing just fine, except for not clamping down on my favorite topic, at least so far.
Eric #236,
Maybe that’s because the things you listed are nothing new. Bonuses have always been at the discretion of the corp, and the name change to Amway is old news, unless your upline didn’t inform you, and you weren’t looking at the “bathroom walls” of the various corporate blogs, which were advertised on the inside cover of your Achieve magazine a couple of months ago.
too much tex #237,
Only 8%? Gotta work harder….
Blogs go off topic much more than they stay on topic. Sometimes it’s a good thing, sometimes not. But that’s how it works. Some moderators maintain more control, but this takes more time and effort. The adatude blogs are quite a bit tighter than this one, and the freetheibo one is designed to be pro-Orrin or you get “banned”.
August 28th, 2007 at 10:19 pm
Dear Tex,
I have seen multiple posts by you on the freetheibo.info site. It appears you have posted so many times that you have worn out your welcome there. You act like they didn’t allow you to post at all! Not so! It also appears that you have worn out your welcome here. (see “Too Much Tex”)
You have become a broken record on both sites that is now ignored. You are clearly a “Border Bully” attacking everyone trying to cross over and pursue their God given dreams, just because they do not share your point of view. I would not waste my time to try to convince you just how wrong you and Quixtar are in all this mess. You are both a lost cause. I can only feel sorry for you and others like you. You can only wear a “False Mask” and hide the person you truly are for so long. You let your own tongue rat you out.
Orrin and Chris are going to do to Quixtar what Rich and Jay did to Nutrilite years ago. Orrin and Chris are students of Rich and Jay and far greater leaders than Rich and Jay ever were. If Rich and Jay could do it, I have no doubts that Orrin and Chris will succeed and surpass their teachers in ways never imagined possible!
We are the wind that cannot be silenced! It does not matter to me whether Orrin and Chris win their court battles (though I believe they will), because the REAL battles will be fought and won in the living rooms of Americans while showing the TEAM plan. Orrin, Chris and TEAM have already proven they do it better than anyone else! Could that be why Quixtar is running scared and cutting off their nose to spite their face?
I think Quixtar is afraid of the integrity and magnetism that Orrin and Chris have that would draw so many Diamond organizations to join them. I think scared and jealous Quixtar has tried to silence the “roar of the lion” before it became too big to ignore! The problem is they waited too long. It is already too late for Quixtar to silence the truth with lies.
I wish you all the luck in the world, Tex. You are surely going to need it.
August 28th, 2007 at 11:28 pm
Absolutely hilarious! Welcome to “the wacky world of Quixtar!” The link provides an interesting perspective on all the lawsuits.
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070828006209&newsLang=en
August 28th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
Funny, tex can be on here, but I get censored.
Good wesites to visit:
http://crazyfunwildworld.blogspot.com/2007/08/team-judge-issues-clarification-on.html
This is an article that shows what the score really is.
Will DeVos stand up and be a hero? Only time will tell…
August 29th, 2007 at 2:02 am
Eric said: I even had a representative at the corporation hesitate and try getting around telling me this info and he is getting paid by the hour.
I’m a Quixtar representative (and I certainly hope I don’t get somehow found out and fired for posting here). I don’t know who you spoke to, obviously, but whenever I get questions on this issue, I try to give the most unbiased information I can, not TEAM OR Corporate spin. Please don’t judge the good people who pay their bills by answering the phone at Quixtar; the majority of us are honest people who would really rather not get involved in this circus either way.
And as far as I know, Tex is NOT a Quixtar employee
August 29th, 2007 at 2:51 am
#237
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TO THAT!!!
Go to sleep Tex!!! WE do not give a S%#^&(&T What you Have to say. You are just Noise.
By the way if you had a few hundred folks you where leading in your group like a lot of us do that care about this business, I would say they would of strug you up with a roap by NOW. Shut UP & go sponser someone.
MODRERATOR you cut my last blog short for reasons it was to close to the founding families heart & you do not shut this nat up????
August 29th, 2007 at 11:38 am
#241 Dixie said:
“Orrin and Chris are students of Rich and Jay and far greater leaders than Rich and Jay ever were.”
“Orrin, Chris and TEAM have already proven they do it better than anyone else!”
“I think Quixtar is afraid of the integrity and magnetism that Orrin and Chris have that would draw so many Diamond organizations to join them.”
ARE ANY OF THESE THOUGHTS BASED ON FACTS?
I think your “leaders” have done an excellent job getting you to think that you and the rest of their organization is “greater” than you truly are.
Considering I belong to an LOA with over 25 QUALIFIED Diamondships, and it’s an LOA who has NOT joined Team, and are quite comfortable with Quixtar’s decision regarding Team, I find your statements…laughable at best, and offensive at worst.
Let’s stick to the facts. It’s evident that hero worshipping can get in the way of that.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:53 am
What is this that we hear about the Michigan Judge now ruling that Team members can attend Team meetings?
Their doesn’t seem to be anything mentioned by Alticor.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
For all of you crowing about how great the TEAM is, why on earth are you constantly posting on the Alticor blog? You should probably all be patting each other on the back over at the freetheibo.com blog. Seriously.
#233 Miss Utah:
I have heard NOTHING about Amway/Quixtar discontinuing partnerships with the partner stores. I agree with Tex about the rumor-mongering.
#239 Tex:
True. TEAM is not the only LOS that is building/teaching the business incorrectly. Or who make a mint off of “helping” people by charging them ridiculous fees for their “assistance”. However, they’re the only ones currently behaving like spoiled children who can’t have their own way. I fully believe rotten children should be spanked.
#241 Dixie:
You should probably put on your Nikes. Your spaceship will be along any minute now. You don’t wanna miss it.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Tex said: “I found a 16 oz. hair gel for $2.40. Not much PV”
Plus shipping. How much is shipping on a bottle of your hair gel? $4? $5? $6?
Like I said, “Cadillac” prices for everyday consumables that are available elsewhere for a fraction of the cost.
If the products were so reasonalble, people would not quit after becoming ‘inactive.’
Please tell me, did you buy “Cadillac” shampoo before you got in the business?
August 29th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Both sides seem to be accusing the other of not speaking about facts, but don’t have any for their own points. This mudslinging is pointless. It does nothing but harm every IBO. What is someone that is thinking about joining going to think when they come to one of these forums and reads what all of the business owners have to say. They’ll be disgusted!
How about we support who we’re going to support and go forward with a sense of respect. I respect Quixtar for the opportunities they have created. I also respect TEAM for helping me grow tremendously as a person. Both organizations have their downfalls. Neither of them can be perfect.
I recommend that all of you read through all of the cases, the complaints, and use a logic screen instead of bias to make your judgments.
A question I have been pondering is why, if Alticor is so confident that no one has ever successfully launched a competing MLM organization and that their’s is so much better, why don’t they let the IBOs make the choice of whether or not to leave? Are they afraid that TEAM might have a chance? Also, if it’s only a mere 15% of their total business (as alticor stated on this blog site a few posts back), wouldn’t it be in their best interest to just forget about the situation, let them go, instead of receiving all of this negative media attention and crazy court costs? They could’ve dodged a very large bullet there.
Just a couple thoughts I have.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
#236 Eric:
It’s possible that the CCA you spoke w/had not yet completed their transformation training and wasn’t quite sure how to answer your question(s). They should have passed your call over to someone who could have answered more succinctly.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Ok, thats enough talk about a wasted subject which is “Tex”, no need to beat a dead horse!
Ignore him we are wasting our time thinking and caring what he has to say. Lets just pray for him and others like him!
“Hold the line”
We are going to a million!!Go TEAM!
August 29th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
I’m a Platinum IBO not in TEAM and I’m concerned about many of the posts on this site. Neither side is right about this, but TEAM IBO’s - you need to learn to think for yourselves. Without Quixtar you don’t have a business. When Rich and Jay formed Amway, they had a product and were visionaries. I’m sure your leaders are incredible, but this is a different time and mlm is not exactly a new concept. Starting a new mlm is not easy and is ultra competitive - it takes a lot of money and very good products. What is TEAM without something to sell? How are you going to 1 million without a business? Please think about this!
I feel very badly for you guys being caught in the middle of this mess. I’m not happy how Quixtar is treating you, but I think they are trying to protect their business not only for the families but for the employees and other IBOs in other organizations. I hope both sides with come to an agreement instead of dragging this through the court system. My business is not growing much right now and I am not supportive of the Amway name change, but I am willing to see how the changes the corp. is making will play out.
Good luck to you TEAM IBOs - I really hope your leaders and Quixtar can come to an agreement that benefits both sides.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Tex,
You have way too much time on your hands. Do you live for drama? I have read many of your posts and find them all to be pokes and prods at everyone else. I have books for and about that if you would like to borrow them. (This may keep you busy for awhile so that we won’t have to read any more of your pitiful attacks.) Just for the record AGAIN, I don’t have any association with any TEAM. I refuse to participate in any scam of me! If I want a self help book I will buy the one that I feel best fits my needs at the time. The same goes for seminars and cds. As far as the information I have received it can from a member of another organization with members on the IBOAI board. Quixtar can write all of the new forms they want. It seems they like to hide things from us until it is time to unleash their lastest ingenious (sarcasm) plan.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
No offense to Utah Says.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
Bridgett,
The Woodward’s and Brady’s are unmatched leaders. They designed the greatest plan ever to build a Quixtar business. Why else would so many leader’s like Haugen, Wilson, Goetschel, and Florence among others be attracted to what they were doing? Just within Team I count 7 diamonds. All of this created after Team Approach was implemented in 99′. So in 8 years using a plan that focuses on long term income, they have broken 7 diamonds (including themselves) among many many platinums and above. Those 7 are not including all the other diamonds that integrated with Team. Orrin is the only IBO I’ve ever heard of to break a Diamond upline from him. Team is the fastest growing team within Quixtar. Once Team has operated for as long as Inet or BWW or any other you can name, it will be so much bigger it’s not even funny. It’s sad Quixtar didn’t listen because the success of team in the long run would have changed opinions about this business globally in a positive direction. And with you being in a completely different LOA and probably never heard any CD’s by Woodward or Brady, or read any of their books or been to any of their functions, of course you don’t understand. It’s not hero worship that causes so many people to speak highly of these men, it’s true leadership over time (by Chris and Orrin) that causes so many people to speak highly of and follow these leaders.
Why dosn’t Alticor post anything about the rescent amended ruling? Spin doctors working over time so much recently they probably got the day off. But it does remind me of what a wise man once said “Though Quixtar has a 3-12 litigation record, it continues to boast loudly in release after release that it has crushed its opponent—if a football coach claimed having a successful season after winning only 3 of 15 games he would be laughed out of town. It is only within the wacky world of Quixtar’s spin machine that it can claim a winning record in the face of facts that clearly state otherwise.”
August 29th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Dixie #241,
It makes sense you first have to post prior to getting “banned”. I also posted as TheBigPicture, got “banned” for that name and my IP address. Just because “too more tex” doesn’t want to discuss the facts, I have not found that to be true from any of the corp or IBOAI sites. Some moderators are more strict than others when it comes to personal attacks, but will accept a modified “toned down” post. Big difference. Big. Huge. Difference.
Do you know how many hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people like you have claimed that you can “out-Amway” Amway? You are the one who needs the luck, Dixie. But I’m not wishing you any.
SPARTAN #243,
What kinds of things did you try to say that got you censored?
valkyrie #244,
I have also found the people at Quixtar to be helpful within their area of responsibility/expertise. However, there are some very simple questions that have so far gone unanswered.
You are correct, I have stated repeatedly I am not an employee or in any manner paid by any of the Alticor family of companies.
New Platinum #245,
I’ll be even more sure to stay now. How much profit do you make from the tools?
For future reference, it’s spelled “rope”, not like “soap”. And “sponsor” doesn’t have an “e”, we changed the term to “register” a few years ago, apparently because it is easier to spell. Also, the term is spelled “MODERATOR”. Also, did you mean “gnat”, instead of “nat”? That IS a tougher one, the “g” is silent. English class, dismissed.
I can’t imagine why you don’t want to communicate with me, as a very influential fellow IBO (and so far unnamed) apparently wants to talk with me.
Bridgett #246,
You go, girl.
Ron #247,
It’s on the new thread.
August 29th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Ok, I have to ask….
According to this clarification:
“approximately 75,000 Independent Business Owners (IBOs) who participate in Team meetings”
Does this mean that TEAM is only a measly 75,000 people??? I’m not sure if that includes the Legacy etc. groups that joined them or not.
If, they are only 75,000……it is laughable that they will even get close to 200,000 much less a Million!!!
August 29th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
GirlPower #248,
I enjoy them being over here. I’m sure the Quixtar lawyers do as well. Plus the information they are providing on their blog. Thanks again, TEAM IBO’s.
They should be spanked, or worse. As one of the TEAM IBO’s likes to take Scripture out of context, here’s what I think should be done with them: Leviticus 20:9.
MichMan #249,
If you ORGANIZE your buying, you can get FREE shipping from this vendor for purchases of $40 or more. This single Partner store has 1,587 products being offered. Act like a business owner.
Sure did. But I also consider Satinique to be a superior quality shampoo (as well as the rest of the Satinique line, by the way), and the measured “push pump” that dispenses the shampoo eliminates pouring too much out, spillage, etc. Plus it lasts a long time, so I don’t have to think about until my Ditto order comes around, and I can make the decision whether I need some or can delay the order a month or two.
Clint #250,
Have you ever heard the term, “There’s no such thing as bad publicity?” The reason they don’t let TEAM break the rules is because they want to stay in business. This is why they insisted Orrin and Co. follow the rules, and want to protect the rest of us from these rule breakers.
GOING TO MILLIONS #252,
I’m not the subject, the tool profits are the subject.
Miss Utah #254,
I live for the facts. How ’bout you? However, I have found it to be more time consuming than it should be to find these facts.
I’ve got plenty of books, believe me (literally hundreds, most purchased for pennies on the dollar). However, I have to use different tactics for a blog. I learned that through experience.
AEM #256,
If they had to break rules to obtain their “success”, were they really successful?
August 29th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
MarDJay #258
You have to remember that TEAM is the only organization that has been growing at double digit rates, while many others were actually shrinking.
This type of business increases in size exponentially. Think about how big it has grown in 9 years. Then think that in another 9 years it won’t be just double, it will be substantially larger.
August 29th, 2007 at 7:02 pm
MarDjay
In 8 years going from roughly a few hundred people to 75,000 is significant. That’s adding 20 (roughly) people a day for 8 years. How is your business growing?
August 29th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
The Big Apple
Your posts (75,79,80,85,89,and 95) are the most right on target here. Thank You for the time it took to express these thoughts in such a civil manner.
August 29th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
jthompson: Our apologies: your comment was marked as spam by mistake. Here is the comment you posted in its entirety…
August 29th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
#256 AEM
Respectfully I say, you do not know what you are talking about.
Your comment is filled with:
–inaccuracies,
–POOTA stats (plucked out of thin air), and
–statements showing your lack of knowledge regarding the ENTIRE Quixtar community, rather than Team’s mere fifteen percent (15%) of IBOs;
–statements showing your lack of knowledge regarding the entire GLOBAL community of Amway.
You can have great respect and admiration for people. But when that respect and admiration starts to affect your ability to think clearly, there is a problem.
Please, for YOUR sake, find out the truth, rather than regurgitate what you’ve heard from stage, a CD, or your upline.
Please cure yourself of a disease I am seeing spread throughout all of TEAM–
myopia (mī-ō’pē-ə)lack of discernment:a narrow view in thinking or planning.
Questioning isn’t “de-edification” or being “negative” if your leaders are truly leaders and are worth following and emulating.
August 30th, 2007 at 12:11 am
Bridgette/246,
You need to understand. Go to freetheibo TEAM forum, drink their Kool-Aid and you will understand that Orrin and Chris are men of Character and Integrity. They are the new Jefferson/Washington helping us get free from the evil “Crown” of England.
You need to understand We are going to a Million!!! Yes!!!!
Do what Orrin says “Focus on the positive and Ingore the negative” - and remember that negative is anything that disagrees with Wood/Brady.
By the way, don’t miss our next Tuesday Night opportunity meeting… b/c we are still building our Quixtar Business! Fired Up! Yes, i am on the board next week. During the 6-4-2 part I talk about how great TEAM is…. and how evil Quixtar is. My favorite part of my Board Plan is when i answer the question “is this an illegal pyramid” with YES IT IS…. so please register as a Quixtar IBO today…. of course we are hoping to start a new mlm or take our team into another mlm so you may not be a quixtar ibo for long.
freetheibo forum would not exist and would not remain without the COMPLETE AUTHORIZATION of Orrin and Chris. These “gentleman” are sitting back passively as they give the orders and directions for their downline to TRASH Quixtar.
August 30th, 2007 at 1:33 am
Bridgett,
Thank you for thinking so long on what I said and taking the time to write back. I appreciate your input. Since like you said “Considering [you] belong to an LOA with over 25 QUALIFIED Diamondships, and it’s an LOA who has NOT joined Team” you can’t really know what you’re talking about. The things that I say come from me, from my thinking, from my questioning. I’ve questioned everything. And my post reflects MY conclusions. I would not disrespect anyone on this blog or myself by posting things simply because I heard them from a CD, a stage or a upline.
Now I’m going to ask you to back yourself up.
You say:
“Your comment is filled with:
–inaccuracies” Where are they? Copy and paste will help with this.
“–POOTA stats (plucked out of thin air)”
I don’t recall citing any stats, so what do you mean with this?
“–statements showing your lack of knowledge regarding the ENTIRE Quixtar community, rather than Team’s mere fifteen percent (15%) of IBOs
-statements showing your lack of knowledge regarding the entire GLOBAL community of Amway.”
What statements do you refer to? And keep in mind I’m not talking about the ENTIRE quixtar community or the global Amway business, just TEAM
one more thing.
You say
“Please cure yourself of a disease I am seeing spread throughout all of TEAM–
myopia (mī-ō’pē-ə)lack of discernment:a narrow view in thinking or planning.”
What you call Myopia is better described as conviction. I am very narrow minded on this subject, but it is not from lack of information, it’s from having the information and making calculated judgements.
August 30th, 2007 at 4:39 am
My little boy TEX! Are MAAD or is my spelling making you sad. I’m a PlatInum & yes I’m careful with all that big brother is doing right now, like most of us. I know you have nothing to loose so keep saying nothing. Do you have any life? I pondered to even say anything but you are soooo funny. Did you know most of us with a good size group make lots of $ outside Q/A? Why? Is is or grammer. Your Funny BOY & Broke I’m sure.
I a littel slow on spelling but not on Skill in BUilding a big GRUOP. OPPS, Did I spell that rong.
August 30th, 2007 at 9:22 am
Bridgett Says: Response to #246;
Does your group use tools?
Are your meetings free?
Do you travel 4 times a year to “major” functions?
Does your leadership tell you the huge amounts of money they earn from the above?
Were you and/or your group this “against” TEAM prior to 8/9/07?
Aren’t you concerned at all that your group might be next?
JT, Orrin and Chris give me no orders. I’ve never been given an order, idea or even direction on “trashing” anyone including Quixtar. This is devastating to most IBO’s especially if you’re a TEAM IBO. Your comments are ridiculous, and proof your group is small. Large group leaders don’t talk like that.
As much as I’ve read it certainly appears to me that TEAM comments have been quite subdued compared to corporate responses on these blogs. I’m surprised at all the comments and even “down” talking at the very IBO’s that Quixtar is trying to keep. How can they be so vocal negatively about people some IBO’s love.
Still waiting for responses from large pin IBO’s building the business without using a system. Any takers? hehe
August 30th, 2007 at 9:48 am
brad268 - I am not an ibo right now… but my income is equal to Orrin and Chris.
Orrin and Chris have read lots of people skill books and have learned how to communicate.
I agree you were not given a direct order. They are the ones with the authority to create or not create a forum/blog and they are allowing Ron or whoever the moderator is to create threads that instigate trashing Quixtar.
The title of the blog at freetheibo had something to the effect of “exposing Corporate *****”
Boston XS party (now that was funny!)
I have never been to a TEAM meeting. If you have one in Dallas, i will come visit.
My focus is on how TEAM Leaders and their forum have behaved this month only.
Please keep me entertained.
August 30th, 2007 at 9:57 am
Oh yes….
I have ran into a lot of SCARED TEAM ibos b/c they have been taught to trust Orrin/Chris and to Fear “big brother” Quixtar.
TEAM Leaders, Ron, Orrin, Chris, etc…. PLEASE keep entertaining me! I was planning on blogging for just a few days… but this is more fun than I thought.
Please tell me more about the part where you have believed Quixtar is an illegal pyramid for years and still make lots of money off it and are still building an illegal business in your mind.
Better yet, tell me more about how evil the “Crown” (england1776/amway corp) is and how they are greedy….
Keep posting your endless TROs as wins knowing that most of the people don’t know what a TRO is and think it is as valid as a trial with Decision by a Judge.
Your TEAM downline ibos are a lot smarter than you give them credit for. They know when you are telling them straight vs. when you are trying to manipulate them.
August 30th, 2007 at 11:52 am
Couldn’t help but notice there has been no comment from moderator regarding what obviously is being kept secret or thus far unaddressed. ARE THE PARTNER STORES GOING??? Tex with all your facts what are you finding? SILENCE???????
August 30th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
go to the comments section of the http://adatudes.opportunityzone.com
Stacking vs. Depth-Building
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 by Todd Krause
Read the many comments by TEAM ibos… you get a sense that what Quixtar said on their “Go Team Go” August 10 blog has a lot more truth and lot less spin then i thought.
August 30th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
Dixie: Could you resubmit your comment with a link to the forum thread you’d copied versus actually copying the text of the thread itself? We’d like to post your comment, but as it stands it’s rather lengthy. Thank you.
August 30th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
“well orrin only has millions upon millions of dollars after the 8 years of BS he put people through. Im sure hes going to fly to flordia and head out on his yacht and all the lone TEAM members are going to get screwed.”
Time will tell
August 30th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
New Platinum #267,
My little boy New Platinum, I’m not mad, I just like pointing out the level of my “competition”, which is probably a very generous word to use when referring to you.
You don’t have to be careful with Quixtar, you have to be careful who you are following and whether they are following the rules. Also, the word to use is “lose”, not “loose”, “It” instead of “Is”, and “grammar”, not “grammer”. I won’t fix your intentional spelling errors, you made enough unintentional ones to keep you busy for a while. You better hope your group doesn’t know who you are on this blog, you may be leading them one day and realize none of them are following you, not so much for your lack of spelling ability, but because they realize they are following someone who is following those with zero credibility, Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward.
August 30th, 2007 at 8:54 pm
Brad #268,
Does your group use tools? Yep.
Are your meetings free? No, at cost or minimal (and known) profit.
Do you travel 4 times a year to “major” functions? No, and you should have to, either. All the higher pins have to do is cooperate on the major functions, concentrate on the generic motivational/leadership aspects, and do their detailed training at the monthly seminars. Much less travel costs would result, and the upline would probably get MORE IBO’s to attend. But first they have to put their MASSIVE egos aside, so I’m not holding my breath on this idea, even though it is clearly the right thing to do.
Does your leadership tell you the huge amounts of money they earn from the above? No, they have refused.
Were you and/or your group this “against” TEAM prior to 8/9/07? Yep, I think I threw up a little in my mouth after seeing their first Open.
Aren’t you concerned at all that your group might be next? No, we are following the rules, and if told otherwise, I am willing to fix whatever we are shown to be doing wrong.
It’s not “devestating” to this IBO. I guess the other TEAM IBO’s didn’t get the memo, from Orrin right down to the many other IBO’s that are trashing Quixtar on freetheibo. That’s right, large “leaders” cut off their downline IBO’s at the knees. But they don’t just follow the rules and wait the 6 month and 2 year time periods, they start a lawsuit that will probably drag out for years before they end up losing it. Wait until Orrin’s new MLM prospects google his name and find all the credibility, character and integrity oozing out of Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward’s body.
Maybe the TEAM comments are subdued on this blog, they aren’t on the freetheibo forum. Quixtar isn’t talking down to the typical IBO, just the ones breaking the rules, as they should. The “people some IBO’s love” don’t deserve the “love”, they are cheaters and want special favors as they leave. That’s called gall.
Systems aren’t the issue, the tool prices and resulting profits are. hehe
August 30th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
jthompson #269/70,
I can probably get you information for a Dallas TEAM Open. Do you have an e-mail address you don’t use much and don’t care if you get others sending you trash messages? If not, I can get you to another site that has private messaging capabilities.
Do you make multiple millions of dollars a year? This is how much Orrin and Chris reportedly make, mostly from tool profits.
It is fun to toy with these lower life forms, but there is also a very serious and very real problem with the tool profits among most other tool companies that we must remain focused on.
Miss Utah #271,
Silence so far, but I tend not to spend much time on rumors.
August 30th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
Tex,
I should have been more specific.
Do you use the tools?
I have never been talked with, introduced or told of any MLM other than Quixtar from anyone involved with TEAM.
We were also following the rules. My organization spent considerable time “waiting” to be a part of TEAM, after approval, we were allowed to join TEAM 7/1/07.
I think a great question is……Why would the corporation let all of us slide over to the system TEAM is using, and 5 weeks later drop the ax? This makes no sense.
What does make sense is that, Quixtar did not have intentions on terminating any TEAM leadership at that time. Does not their allowing us to participate with Quixtar approved tools imply it’s ok? If the corporation has been so worried about TEAM, perhaps they shouldn’t let other organizations continue to join TEAM’s group.
I am bored silly of all the reading and have yet to see an answer to this question. Which to me, is my most important one.
Anyone who has built this business to any degree of success knows that human emotions are probably the biggest factor in holding something worthwhile together. I would submit that those posting ridiculous slanderous accusations probably don’t have a group. Because that group could read those posts. I am unashamed of anything I’ve posted since most have been unanswered questions.
And finally, why is the corporation that I’ve been supporting in the face of negative neighbors, family, and friends, now slamming successful pin levels with sarcasm, almost happy, and hoping for failure. This coming from a “billion” dollar corporation?
So if I quit TEAM, how do I show the plan now. Hey, get in, and don’t screw up or Q will have you all over the web. Got it newbie? hehe. No thx.
August 31st, 2007 at 12:06 am
#266 AEM,
Quickly and not at all thoroughly, because I REALLY have other things to do that be on this blog:
Inaccuracies,
“Orrin is the only IBO I’ve ever heard of to break a Diamond upline from him.”
One does not “break a Diamond upline”. The upline “goes diamond” after their downline does.
And I have heard, and seen this—in my own LOA and in others. Someone can also have a higher pin (EDC, Double, Triple, etc.) than their upline.
And I don’t exactly know what your point is anyway. If I go Diamond, and then my upline does Diamond, I don’t have anything (except being one of the six Platinum legs he needs) to do with his success.
This is an example of a POOTA stat:
“Team is the fastest growing team within Quixtar.”
There is no way to prove or disprove this stat. Also, it is completely meaningless unless you have raw numbers. It’s like saying “Grandmothers are the fastest-growing group of crack heads in America.” How many Grandmas were crack heads before? What time frame are you using? How many are there now? How many total crack heads are there/where there/when?
“What statements do you refer to? And keep in mind I’m not talking about the ENTIRE quixtar community or the global Amway business, just TEAM”
Umm. Exactly. You are just talking about TEAM, because that is your only frame of reference. That is my point.
“What you call Myopia is better described as conviction.”
Yes. I used to say this too…in my younger years.
August 31st, 2007 at 12:07 am
#268 Brad,
What, in my comment (#246), exactly are you asking or commenting about?
August 31st, 2007 at 1:19 am
#271 Miss Utah:
In post #248 I responded to your post #233.
To my knowledge, nothing has been said about discontinuing partner stores. I’m usually not the first to know, but I try to keep up to date.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:39 am
Brad #278:
Nice to see some well thought out reasoning here for a change. A lot of what I see here amounts to nothing more than malicious attacks, bordering on libel. Unbelieveable.
I too have asked questions, as you have, from some of those posting here. I don’t know if you have noticed, but they usually won’t answer direct questions. Much easier for them to spew vitriolic drivel than engage in thoughtful dialogue. The nature of blogging, I suppose.
Anyway, welcome to the discussion!
August 31st, 2007 at 10:18 am
Jthompson,
Curious you mention your income.
Is it from Q/A?
And how do you know Brady’s or Woodward’s income?
Do you know my income?
I look forward to your reply.
August 31st, 2007 at 11:18 am
Tex: Your comment to Brad from Aug 31, 1:03 AM tips the scales. Care go break up and/or shorten?
August 31st, 2007 at 11:25 am
283 - i was joking - i was saying that Orrin/Chris have a Quixtar income of $0
so do i b/c i am not a Q ibo
August 31st, 2007 at 11:56 am
Tex # 277
“It is fun to toy with these lower life forms”.
You’re just really a sweet guy, aren’t you?
We can only hope that your quick wit and biting satire is put to use in a more productive forum some day.
Making fun of people’s ability to spell, calling them lower life forms, snotty remarks about their ability to think for themselves ? You’re just a peach. Can you state your point w/o showing your spite for Team members ?
Keep in mind ( all of us ) that what goes around, comes around. Life balances out. If I’ve learned anything from this, it’s that many people get a kick out of being hateful to others. Responses & comments cannot be made without obvious intent to ridicule or hurt. Sad.
Watch the swinging pendulum, Tex. Should the court not find in your favor, we wouldn’t want you to have to eat your words in a few weeks. Might not be as tasty then as now
August 31st, 2007 at 1:14 pm
tex,
jthompsonblogging@gmail.com
August 31st, 2007 at 9:38 pm
Brad #278,
I use tools, some are TEAM tools. I have purchased well over 10,000 tapes/CD’s for less than $0.20, including shipping, from all major lines of sponsorship. That’s right twenty cents. We lend them to our group, all that is required is a $20 deposit to ensure the materials are returned. If they want to leave the business and return their borrowed tools, the $20 is returned. Same with books, about $1/book.
What’s your point about never been talked with…?
You’re with 5K, right? If so, you shouldn’t have given up your accreditation for TEAM. Big mistake. Big. Huge. Mistake.
The corp probably don’t want to interfere with these things, it was a 5K decision.
I don’t think Quixtar had ideas of terminating TEAM when they came to the August 9th meeting, but TEAM forced their hand when they refused to discuss the problems with Quixtar. I don’t think Quixtar approved your group joining team, that was between TEAM and your group.
I think you have an erroneous assumption that Quixtar was approving the TEAM and your group’s merger.
Human emotions are important, so are the facts. The most important thing in business is the source of profit and loss. In this case, the same thing, tool profit, causes profit for Platinums and above and losses for everyone else. It’s not slander when in writing, it’s libel. If libelous, they should be sued. If they sound libelous, but are actually true, then there is no legal basis for a lawsuit. I am also unashamed, as I have mainly asked unanswered questions, although I am chipping around the edges a bit.
Because they don’t want to come across as some stuffed shirt company, but as a real and personal IBO advocate. The “bigshot company” image doesn’t work well in the blog world, which they have chosen wisely to enter. I see it as refreshing, something your negative neighbors, family, and friends may appreciate, if you gave them a chance. Show the blog to your negative neighbor and say “Hey, look what this cool company I am working with is saying about these clowns who thought they could break the rules are doing? How cool is that?” You’ve got nothing to lose, they’re already negative, right?
I think you should show the plan according to the rules, for starters. Q put Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward and Co. on the web because they refused to discuss their problems with Q, then wanted an “early out” so they could start their own MLM, then filed a lawsuit claiming Q is an illegal pyramid. I think they were treated appropriately by Q.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Deann #287,
Only to those who are “sweet” to me first.
I already use it outside of this blog, every day.
No, I can’t. TEAM is the bottom of the barrel. Not being nasty, just telling the truth. Check out the freetheibo forum if you have any doubts. I am merely providing the “fair and balanced” opposition to the garbage on the TEAM site, who has “banned” me, the cowards. Reminds me of a little kid with their fingers in their ears, and screaming, so they don’t have to listen to the facts. Quite sad, if you think about it. After all, it is 2007.
I generally point out the mispellings ONLY when people are calling me stupid, dumb, etc., then they make numerous errors in the SAME sentence. I find this fascinating. Freudian slips, perhaps?
A few weeks? Try a few months to years. I know the facts, I know the company’s track record, I know their budget (compared to Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward), I’m not concerned. But thanks for your interest.
September 1st, 2007 at 9:01 pm
MichMan [#231]
Selling mass market and selling high quality are two different animals. As an example, WalMart began by selling on price. After enough growth, WalMart then began using their buying power to squeeze further concessions from manufacturers. Their lower prices have come at a price, a social price such as a lack of employer provided insurance, violation of certain labor laws concerning overtime, etc. And most recently, we’re finding that the low prices demanded by WalMart and other discounters is driving manufacturers in China to cut all sorts of corners and ship merchandise that is made from harmful materials or ingredients.
Some products are made to be sold on a low cost, mass market basis. However, in order to provide individuals with the opportunity to have their own business, and make the time they spend selling those products profitable, you cannot use the low-priced product model. The two don’t mix.
Back in the 1940s, ‘50s, and ‘60s, Double X sold for $19.50 per box! Based on 1953 prices, that is equal to $143.09 in 2006! But Nutrilite distributors sold it on its quality, and their time was well compensated.
There’s another factor, too. The secret to a long-term successful Quixtar business is customer loyalty throughout the organization, and in this instance I mean any customer: IBOs or non-IBOs.
We sell mostly consumable products, and we depend on people wanting to reorder our products. This is what makes taking the time to explain the features and benefits of the product worth while. MLMs who sell only durable goods, such as jewelry, have not lasted. Their distributors always have to go out and look for a new customer because there is little to no repeat sale.
People who shop by price are notorious for having the lowest loyalty. They are always looking to see who has the best prices. That makes an MLM business aimed at low price shoppers no better than those who sell only durable goods.
[to be continued]
September 1st, 2007 at 9:01 pm
[continued from previous post]
We have ALWAYS sold the kind of products that need to be explained; in other words, that need to be sold. Always.
But nowadays, most organizations “sell” our products to IBOs on the basis that the products give them PV in order to build their business. People will miss what you don’t point out to them. When an IBO drops out due to a lack of making money, do they need PV anymore? So why buy the product? But, if you sold them on the quality and benefits of the product, then it is highly likely the ex-IBO will continue to buy, if you don’t harangue them about dropping out of the business, that is.
Customers at various income levels will buy our products when the products are sold to them. This I can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. The question is, are our products being sold? Our society today has more discretionary income (the amount of an individual’s income available for spending after the essentials (such as food, clothing, and shelter) have been taken care of) then ever before. Money is spent on lots of “extras,” like big screen TVs, premium TV channels, multiple cars, etc. That’s because people are sold on those products.
The low rate of Quixtar retail sales is primarily because of a lack of effort to sell, not because of price. A lot of that lack of effort comes from a lack of belief that the products can be sold, and that lack of belief comes from a lack of training. As I’ve asked elsewhere, how much product and sales training is offered by the various organizations? What business are these organizations really in? (See my 9/01 posts on “Just go, Team” thread)
Finally, if Quixtar wanted to compete on price with Walmart, they wouldn’t need IBOs and a direct sales system. They’d advertise, and we’d be out of a business opportunity
September 1st, 2007 at 9:02 pm
Kim [#262]
Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate it!
September 2nd, 2007 at 1:23 am
Dear “jthompson”,
If you’re not an IBO with a Quixtar business why are you so passionate about these issues with Quixtar and Woodward/TEAM? I thought that you mentioned your history with the business at some point. I realize it’s fun sparring with your buddies on these blogs. I’m beginning to think that this isn’t the place for serious business-builders. Business builders are out prospecting, selling, and counselling with their support team. That’s were I need to go. I’ll allow myself one last peek here after the weekend.
Bye,
Aron
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:37 pm
293/Aron Gannon,
“I’m beginning to think that this isn’t the place for serious business-builders. Business builders are out prospecting, selling, and counselling with their support team. That’s were I need to go. I’ll allow myself one last peek here after the weekend.”
Glad you are wising up! Dave Servern with WWDB has a CLASSIC tape called “Pigs don’t know pigs stink”
“Don’t wrestle with a Pig b/c the Pig likes it and you will both get dirty!”
JC said the Poor will always be among us. This is the reason why I am joining you.
Joe M. when he was part of BWW said “You can’t make a stallion out of a mule”
If your prospects don’t want to build a quixtar business with you after visiting the internet (the rest station bathroom wall), then let them stay broke. If a prospect lets the comment/opinion of someone he doesn’t know and has never met or someone who has some agenda (like Eric Scheibeler who has had one of the most influencial negative Amway sites for year… in court recently admitted to LIEing about the core of his anti-Amway Message.), if they have such little spine, then they will probably not lead a colliseum….
September 2nd, 2007 at 11:52 pm
Aron #294,
You go do your business building activities, and the rest of us will take care of fixing the problems that will the business to survive long-term.
September 4th, 2007 at 12:58 am
jthompson and Tex,
Thanks for the encouraging words. My message from 294 wasn’t meant to criticize anyone or toot my own horn about actions that I’m about to take. You guys, along with a few others like “ibofightback” have written a lot of great stuff on these blogs. I was starting to feel like I was getting a little too obsessed with this Woodward/Brady vs. Quixtar case. I pride myself in not watching a lot TV, but following this case and all the opinions surrounding it has turned me into somewhat of a couch potato (with my computer)in the evenings. Jthompson, I’ve enjoyed your wit. I’ll think about some of the things you said as I go to work. That new money that Quixtar has put on the table for us looks really good. Tex/295, I heard a quote from a businessman recently that went something like this, “I’ve never encountered a problem in business that a few more sales couldn’t alleviate.”
September 4th, 2007 at 5:46 am
The Big Apple:
Having been around for many years and in three different organizations I have never seen an organizations that lacks “home care clinics”, “Beauty Breaks”, “Sam Machine Training”, “Health and wellness clinics” etc. According to FTCs agreement with Quixtar, our model is primarily based on highly consumable products like toothpaste and toilet paper. It’s these items that FTC requires 10% of outside sales from, and you don’t need much sales training to move these items. The fact that such a low retail rate happens across the board with over a million IBOs is a clear indicator of overpriced products. Here’s an even better indicator: with all of the various organizations in North America (and many have tried to focus on width and retail) the only English speaking organization that has grown since 1999 is TEAM. That fact cannot be disputed. The larger organizations that have only declined minimally have done so by focusing on a system. Call up Q and ask them what percetage of folks qualified there customer volume through auto generated and how many self reported. The only organizations that have remained profitable through this mess didn’t do it on the merits of the products and marketing plan, but in spite of it.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
296/makeadiffernce
TEAM is NOT NOT NOT the only growing ibo team, especially since 1999!
The Morris team that is huge in India and huge in the USA… has grown massively… now they have as many people attending fuctions as TEAM DID (past tense). They are English Speaking.
The Winters Team has 20k at functions… they have grown massively since 1998…. tripled their numbers or more. probably quadrupled.
Shall i go on?
Quit lieing peoples about TEAM - the book i read says that Pride comes before downfall. TEAM may have been awesome… but they got to big for their brithes! They are too good for the rules.
These other IBO teams grew massively since 1999 without cheating like TEAM did. The other organizations don’t hide the Quixtar name. The other organizations don’t try to represent their “TEAM” as if its the real business, and Quixtar just being a supplier.
TEAM ibos - i love the same parts of the business that you do. But wakeup! Your hero upline Orin lost his mojo!!!
September 5th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
#298 jthompson — so which rules have TEAM broken? I have been around a few years, and NO ONE in my upline or downline HAS EVER received anything from the Corporation indicating any rules violation. Not even one. Nothing. Ever. Moreover, the Corporation had no problem with TEAM approach until a short time ago. Quixtar has chosen to CHANGE the rules, but previous to that there were no broken rules.
If you have something more than your subjective opinion or statements from the Corporation I would love to hear it.
And do you have source(s)for the facts you’re quoting here? Or just more of your opinion or what you’ve been told by others?
September 5th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
AEM #261
Just some perspective: ONE of the Founders Crown Ambassadors in our BSM group, added 200 000 people to his group in the last four months of last year.
There are two other FCA, 4 Crown Ambassadors, 5 Crown Directs, 1 Founders Triple Diamond and 4 triple diamonds.
As Crocodile Dundee said: “That’s not a knive, this is!”
As I said upfront, just for some perspective.
September 6th, 2007 at 2:53 am
#299 OhioIBO,
Think about this:
Let’s say I did something and got “found out”. Let’s say as an example, not a perfect one, but, just go with me here for a second…
Let’s say I was a pillar in the community. I had a lot of influence. I was a leader and many people respected me and listened to me.
Then, let’s say that I got found out by “the authorities”, that something I did/was doing was wrong, bad, selfish, whatever.
And let’s say that I got others to engage in this bad thing—since I’m a leader, I have influence.
Because of who I was, and the influence I had, the authorities QUIETLY tried to coax me away from my wrongdoings. They were extremely patient and tried the warnings over and over. They wouldn’t want to expose me in front of all “my people”.
That would be detrimental to everyone.
Now, add on top of all this that: I thought, no, what I am doing is NOT wrong, is NOT bad, is NOT selfish.
In fact, I believe it’s just the opposite! What’s wrong with these authorities? They just “don’t get it”. I know better. And I’m going to continue to lead my people and we are going to go along like nothing is wrong–because nothing IS wrong.
And we are going to influence more people to do what we do. We’ll show those authorities who’s right.
And since I’m right and the authorities are wrong, “my people” don’t need to know about any of my dealings with the authorities. The authorities will come to their senses soon enough, so why drag my people in to all the details?
In fact, it might be a good idea if I kind of distracted my people and told them that I was their authority. I won’t say it outright. That would be self-edifying. I’ll just slowly have them turn their attention and loyalty to me, since I am above the law.
I know what’s best.
.
Just a thought as to why you hadn’t heard anything. But, then again, I’m probably wrong.
.
Hey, if you’re a qualified Platinum, you received an email from Quixtar on July 24th. If you didn’t, ask the Corp about it. If you aren’t a qualified Platinum, ask yours to see the email. It’ll give you some perspective on the rule and why Quixtar (from a legal standpoint) needs to enforce it.
September 6th, 2007 at 9:23 am
265 jthompson, I think you are mistaken, The team and specifialy Chris and Orin have not and will not tell there group to trash quixtar. I mean lets use some common sense. you like to use anologies so here is one for you. The President of the United States says we are going to war, the General disagrees with the President’s strategies and has conversations with him in the oval office, all while he tells his troups to go defend our country, hold up honor and complete the task, in the back field the general is having high level talks to get things to change but in the front he is telling his troups to do buisness as usual. That is simply what Chris and Orin are doing, in fact if they were allowed to talk I would imagine they would suggest everyone from the team to stop blogging. I have to say I think when the smoke clears I am going to come join your team, because you must be making a ton of money and be free to spend as much time on all these blogs offering your free oppion of nothing.
September 6th, 2007 at 9:47 am
298 jthompson
I went to a winters function in 1994 with the attendance of 21,000 in Raleigh, NC…if they are having function of 20,000 now it seems as if they have gone backwards in the last 13 years
September 6th, 2007 at 10:31 am
Quixtar refered to IBO’s as their “property”. More specifically, they called us “chattel”. I was’nt sure what “chattel” meant, so I looked it up. Chattel: 1) a movable article of personal property. 2) any article of tangible property other than land, buildings, and other things annexed to land. 3) a slave. If you google search “human chattel” you’ll find out what Quixtar really thinks of you.
September 6th, 2007 at 11:19 am
299
Ohio IBO
your upline were taught early on from their upline (before TEAM existed) to “never pass negative information downline”
If Orrin got info like that he does not share it with everyone. that is just smart business.
Your boss at your job doesn’t share all negative info with his employees.
September 6th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
OHIO IBO asked: so which rules have TEAM broken?
The rules for an MLM is that it must provide a service or product that can be consumed. Which is exactly what A/Q is. However, TEAM actually moved away from being a product business, and they consider themselves a motivational organisation - that seems to be generally accepted.
However, this also means that the flow of money and products through this pipeline has dramatically changed. Now if you apply the FTC test, you get a different answer than what you used to get when you applied it to a pure A/Q business. Now people pay more and more for motivation, and less and less for product.
Q/A decided that the line has been crossed, putting the whole of the Amway business in jeapordy, all over the world. TEAM was given a chance to move back over the line, and refused.
Now we will see in California, who was right.
September 6th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
303/Chris - that was a Miller Function, not Winters
I was at Winters first Spring Leadership (10k plus to qualify) in i believe 2004. and 3 years later they have about doubled.
Winters/LTD went from less than 10k to almost/about 20k in the last 4 years.
September 6th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
302/chris - nice analogy/metaphor
“learning is the creation of a relationship bwtn what we know and don’t yet know/understand”
September 6th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
September 4
Plaintiffs file reply in support of their motion for preliminary injunction
Announce that thousands of affidavits, including more than 130 in California, alone, have been executed by former and current Quixtar distributors supporting the plaintiffs’ motion for preliminary injunction
By responding to the plaintiffs’ allegations that it has been knowingly operating as an illegal pyramid scheme through silence, plaintiffs contend that Quixtar admits its guilt
Temporary Restraining Order granted to Team in Collin County, Texas
United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas, Sherman Division, grants plaintiffs’ request for a preliminary injunction order preventing Quixtar from interfering with plaintiffs’ business or business relationships
Court also grants Quixtar’s motion to compel arbitration
September 7th, 2007 at 2:27 am
Roy E: Can you please provide a reference to where Q called you a “chattel”?
The only quote regarding this I have seen on the FreetheIBO forums, and it actually referred to the “organisation” as “the property of Quixtar”. Now there is a big difference between owning an organisation, and owning the people in the organisation.
See also my post at forums.freetheIBO around that, if it hasn’t been deleted by the moderator. I have found that if you don’t post the party line over there, your posts get deleted.
But what is REALLY strange, I have seen responses to posts I have made, where the original post is not there, only the response. I don’t know how they managed to do that….
September 7th, 2007 at 4:41 am
Pion, I mean Piet you just kon’t get it do you? WE KNOW it’s about products!!!!!! Get it thru your head, our view is products don’t move themselves, motivation and leadership do!Just because we don’t emphasize products doesn’t mean we are degrading Quixtar. I for one did not join Quixtar, I joined our leadership. I like what these guys stand for and I am devoted to their ideal. Why do you think we were Quixtar’s fastest growing team EVERY year of our existence. I would guess 75% of the people I prospected asked if it was Amway, and 100% of the time I got a favorable response when my answer was “no”. In fact, I answer EXACTLY like question #19 of the ibofacts.If Quixtar would just drop the ego bit (isn’t that really why their going back to Amway?), all would be fine. But they had to just keep tightening the noose, now look what they’ve done and wait to see where we end up. We will win and everybody knows it.
September 7th, 2007 at 8:25 am
306 Piet
Have you ever been to a TEAM meeting?
September 9th, 2007 at 4:46 am
PROUD TO BE TEAM……..SEP 12 GOD BLESS
TIME TO GO…..
September 9th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
I want to take back some of the things I wrote in #293 above. August ‘07 was the first time I have ever had any experience with blogging. I was drawn to it to stay up to date with the Woodward/TEAM vs. Quixtar battle. The first time I heard of blogs was when I read Dr. Steve W. Price’s book “WWW. Stands for ‘World Wide Whiners’, How the Internet is being manipulated by the MIFFED.” After reading this book I figured blogs were mainly a place where negative people spread misinformation. After reading the Quixtar and Alticore blogs for the past month and occasionally contributing, I have a better appreciation for blogging. I think that I will continue, but I’ll work on budgeting a specific amount of time to it, so it doesn’t inhibit my business building activities. One of my favorite quotes from Price’s book is “The antidote to the Whiners’ sites would be for 10,000 successful associates to start their own positive sites that link back and forth to each other, but that would require taking time away from working their Direct Selling business, reducing their profits, and undermining their dreams. That’s not going to happen. Which is why Whiners rule the Web.” This is exactly what IBOfightback is doing with his site www.thetruthaboutamway.com. I appreciate the sacrifice he is making to balance all the many negative sites devoted to criticizing the Quixtar business opportunity.
September 10th, 2007 at 10:54 am
WHINERS RULE THE WEB
314/Aron
I agree. IBOS are not allowed to advertise their business so they don’t.
TEAM ibos did not blog about Quixtar or Amway before…. maybe about 3 out of “75,000″. But now they are all over.
September 10th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
September 11 UPDATE on Team vs Quixtar
1. Quixtar is still declared by the courts to be a Legal and ethical business
2. Team ibos still cannot break the non-compete that they signed every year upon renewing their Quixtar business
In other words, TEAM has filed 15-25 lawsuits and TROs against Quixtar with no victory in regards to non/compete & Quixtar Legality. These lawsuits have acted a Punches that have not landed.
September 10th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
As John Maxwell says, “Everything rises and falls on leadership.” The Team organization looks forward to assisting you in every possible way as you develop your leadership ability.
September 11th, 2007 at 10:26 am
jthompson, you must be confused, The Team has absolutly won at this point TRO’s are simply the courts saying they agree with the team, that there is enough evidence that says the team might be on to something and Quixtar can not mess with them in the process of proving or disproving it in court(Sept. 12th) If the Team didn’t win the picture would be, 1000’s of IBO’s getting terminated, Team meatings put to a hault, team functions stopped, team Tools stopped, none of that has happened therefore the only conclusion that can be made a day before the court case is to start to address the legality of Quixtar is that the team is winning so far. Based on what you have said it would be like you saying since The Kansas City Chiefs lost the 2008 superbowl, the Kansas City Chiefs, have lost all preseason games, but the bowl hasn’t been played therefore they can’t possibly have lost it…
September 11th, 2007 at 11:10 am
jthompson/315,
I think we’re on the same page, but Price wasn’t referring to advertising in a the traditional sense. When I quoted him in #314 I was making the point that there are IBOs doing what he says is “not going to happen”. I gave the example of IBOFightBack’s site. (I realize that the negative sites will probably aways outnumber the positive ones due to all the reasons Price writes about in his book.) Last night I found out that you have started a pro-Quixtar/Amway blog. There’s an article and a link to it on www.thetruthaboutamway.com. Congratulations! I hope it doesn’t keep you from becoming an active IBO again in December.
September 12th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Who is “Winning”?
1. TEAMs fight to get out of the non-compete is not over…. but who is winning so far?
2. TEAM is still currently under the Quixtar non-compete that TEAM Leaders helped introduce, enforced, and supported.
3. Quixtars status right now is unchanged “LEGAL”
TEAM ibos, go and start building another mlm opportunity, tell quixtar lawyer about what you are doing, and we will find out if TEAM is winning.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
making a difference, [#297]
I am familiar with what you’re talking about as I’ve seen those product training meetings in the organization I used to plug in to.
There’s a big difference between the quarterly product training meeting, and making product and sales training a significant part of each and every meeting. Or, let me go further to say, making product and sales training the focus of every meeting. That’s a big difference.
Realistically, those programs are primarily aimed at furthering personal consumption of the products. Selling to customers may be mentioned, but the primary purpose is personal use. They aren’t oriented for customers to attend, and often contain information that should not be disclosed to a customer.
I just cannot agree with your statement, “the fact that such a low retail rate happens across the board with over a million IBOs is a clear indicator of overpriced products.”
I will tell you from personal experience, that our core-line products are not overpriced, and will sell if the IBO attempting to make the sale has a fundamental knowledge about the product and knows how to explain or demonstrate the product. I have hundreds of customers that I don’t have to chase down for orders. They call me.
The above does NOT apply to the commodity products in the Options section of the Choices catalog that invite quick price comparisons, like the paper products. I don’t use or try to sell those products.
The fundamentals of how to get a customer and how to keep a customer are not taught by most of the major systems. This is because their interest, sometimes stated and sometimes not, is to sell their personal development products, i.e., books, CDs, web sites, and meeting and function tickets.
And as far as restricting your example to English speaking organizations, where is the validity in doing that? The immigrants in this country know how to work harder than many people who are non-immigrants. That’s because they are hungry. Look at who is starting the small businesses, vs. who is the couch potato. If the immigrant organizations sell more product, it’s because they realize it can earn them money right away, and if they build an organization of product sellers, that’s long term money built on top of immediate income. And it’s also because they’re willing to hustle, and they’re not ashamed to go out and sell a product.
I suggest reading (or re-reading) “How I Raised Myself From Failure to Success by Selling.”
And I ask this question again: What business are you in, the Quixtar product business or the tool business?
September 23rd, 2007 at 10:03 pm
Dream for a minute…
Of a day when prices are so low that as soon as a new person sees a catalog they want to sign up.
Of a day when “the business” is as common as a visa.
Of a day when we have 10 million IBO’s
A business rises or falls on leadership…
We’ll see what happens…
September 24th, 2007 at 11:28 am
SPARTAN #322,
That day has already arrived in the UK, and will probably be implemented in the U.S. soon. Too bad many of you gave up your positions, now you’ll have to sign up under one of us when we have 10 million IBO’s.
September 27th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Tex,
I wanted to tell you some of my thoughts, but the moderator didn’t believe them. So, check out the link below, to hear it from the source that I got it from. Believe it or not, that is your choice. *Moderator - Tell me what rule I broke so that you wouldn’t post it. Otherwise, you are hindering my freedom of speech*
Oh, and yes, I still have a IBO number, I am still a member of Quixtar.
As much as it sounds like you dislike me Tex, we’re in this together. And we will never see 1 million people, much less 10 million people with the current prices. Our attrition rate is way to high. We are growing at a third the rate of the rest of the industry, however we are signing up 5 times as many people as other industries. That means that we are loosing people at 15 TIMES the attrition rate of other MLM businesses. This business model will not last. We need lower prices to be competitive. That’s the bottom line.
If you want to see what Orrin thinks check out this site.
What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks Tex, I enjoy an educated debate!
September 27th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
*oh, and moderator, speaking of thing that are hard to believe, I had a hard time believeing that Orrin and Chris were fired like they were, and that there was no civil debate about their terms for leaving Quixtar, they just gave them the slip. Once roughly 40% of Quixtar’s operation is gone, how long till they just give you your pink slip??
September 27th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
SPARTAN: Try resubmitting your comment. Offhand, I can’t remember what it was you’d originally said that may have warranted deletion. Or, tell me what day and time, roughly, and I’ll try to dig it out of queue.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
SPARTAN #324,
Orrin came across as a suck up. Why didn’t he offer to lower tool prices along with the lowering of product prices, so his IBO’s could turn a net profit prior to reaching the Platinum level?
September 29th, 2007 at 12:14 am
Tex,
Read ‘Made in America’
Lower prices lead to higher volume.
Higher Volume lead to lower prices.
That’s what Wal-Mart (The second largest corporation in the world!) taught us.
Yes, Orrin wants to lower prices.
Orrin Woodward will be looked at as the Sam Walton of the internet. Have you ever heard of ‘Ben Franklin’ stores? Those were the stores that didn’t lower the prices.
If you don’t know history, you are doomed to repeat it.
The story of Wal-Mart will be a good read right now… trust me on that one.
September 29th, 2007 at 12:26 am
Tex,
Oh, and Yes, Orrin has been talking about lowering the prices of the tools, not just lowering them, but being able to download the CD’s right from the website. Why, if it makes them SOOO much money? Because he understands the power of information. He also understands that the lower the prices the higher the volume… (Sound familiar??)
September 29th, 2007 at 12:29 am
Tex,
Thanks for letting me know about the UK. It seems like Amway lowered their no-compete clause to 30 days. According to your comment (323) you think that will happen here too???!! COOL!!
FREEDOM!!! (mostly)
September 29th, 2007 at 4:54 am
Isabell
This was one time where I have to agree to disagree
September 29th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
SPARTAN #328,
I don’t have to read “Made in America” to know lower prices lead to higher volume, or higher volume lead to lower prices. That’s economics 101. Lower prices also lead to less money being available for PV/BV. That what Amway/Quixtar (one of the largest MLM’s in the world!) taught us.
Yes, Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” wants to lower prices Quixtar prices, but he did very little to lower TEAM tool prices.
Orrin Woodward will be looked at as the MCI/Enron/Adelphia/Tyco of the internet. Have you ever heard of the Morrison and TIF groups, Ken Stewart, Bruce Anderson, or Brig Hart IBO’s? Those were the IBO’s that didn’t lower the tool prices, and were kicked out over some tool scam issue or another.
If you don’t know history, you are doomed to repeat it.
The story of Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward is already a good read right now… trust me on that one.
September 29th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
SPARTAN #329,
Oh, and Yes, Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward has been talking about lowering the prices of the tools, not just lowering them, but being able to download the CD’s right from the website. Too bad it was all talk and little action, and he’s gone now. Why, if it makes them SOOO much money? Because he understands the power of the almighty dollar. He also understands that the lower the prices the higher the volume, but now we’ll never know… (Sound familiar??)
September 29th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
SPARTAN #330,
You’re welcome for letting you know about the UK. It seems like Amway lowered their no-compete clause to 30 days? Do you have a link to verify that claim? According to what Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward did with his lawsuit, I wouldn’t be surprised if the non-compete was extended to one year in the U.S.
COOL!!
ETHICAL BUSINESSES!!! (mostly)
October 1st, 2007 at 10:01 pm
Tex,
What was the last book that you read?
This, I can see is where we disagree. You look at lower prices as a bad thing, I look at it as a good thing. You see, If I don’t spend $20.00 on a bottle of shampoo, and instead only spend 10, the the other ten dollars I can spend on something else, like conditioner. Leading to more products sold. Leading to the same amount of PV. Your right, I’m sure they know what they are doing. They have stayed just about at the 1 billion mark for what, 20 years! Talk about no growth! Wal-Mart of course has no idea what they are doing. The Waltons only own 40% of the company and they are only worth $90 BILLION. I’m sorry we disagree, but I can see there is no point in continuing this. You have your mind made up. That’s fine. I believe I’m right, you believe your right. Only time will tell. Good luck to you in all you do, God Bless,
October 2nd, 2007 at 8:49 am
SPARTAN #335,
I am currently reading Law of Success, by Napoleon Hill. How ’bout you?
This, I can see is where we disagree. You look at lower tool prices as a bad thing, I look at it as a good thing. You see, if I don’t spend $20.00 on a tool, and instead only spend 10, the the other ten dollars I can spend on something else, like conditioner. Leading to more products sold. Leading to a greater amount of PV. I’m not against lower prices for products, just that the tool scam is a much bigger problem. You’re not right, I’m sure they don’t know what they are doing, but I think they’re catching on, and the UK DTI and TEAM fiascos have opened some eyes. They have stayed just about at the 1 billion mark for what, 20 years! Talk about no growth! Wal-Mart of course has another business model, and a very good idea what they are doing. The Waltons only own 40% of the company and they are only worth $90 BILLION. I’m sorry we disagree, but I can see there is no point in continuing this. You have your mind made up. That’s fine. I believe I’m right, you believe your right. Only time will tell, and the trends are all heading in my direction, not yours. Good luck to you in all you do, God Bless, hugs and kisses.