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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
August 24th, 2007 @ 12:04 pm ET…
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The following is an official press release issued today by Alticor:
Complete defeat for Woodward and other terminated TEAM distributors in Quixtar court battle
Judge says dismissed IBOs cannot use company and trade group info; Quixtar allowed to enforce its rules of conductADA, Mich.—Three Michigan court rulings today left dismissed distributor Orrin Woodward and his Team organization without a single legal victory, as a judge ruled that he and a group of terminated distributors cannot misuse the business information of Quixtar, the company that dismissed them last week.
In ruling on three motions related to the terminations, Judge Paul Sullivan of Kent County Circuit Court took the following actions:
- Issued a preliminary injunction preventing Woodward and his company, Team, from using Quixtar business data to recruit Quixtar IBOs as Team builds a competing business;
- Issued a second injunction ordering Woodward and other terminated distributors to return confidential documents and data they had taken from their former trade association, which has suspended them; and
- Denied an injunction request from others who sought to prevent Quixtar from enforcing its rules of conduct.
“These legal defeats to Orrin Woodward represent a victory for hundreds of thousands of Quixtar independent business owners who are building their businesses the right way, selling quality products and introducing consumers to the Quixtar business opportunity,” said Quixtar Executive Vice President Jim Payne.
Since his termination, Woodward has engaged in a campaign of PR spamming, engaging a class-action law firm and filing numerous duplicative lawsuits around the country. The company said it would defend itself against Woodward’s abuse of the legal system.
“After these defeats, Mr. Woodward’s credibility is down to zero,” said Quixtar spokesman Rob Zeiger. “Woodward has ignored our rules, abused the legal process, defied the court, and misled the people who believed in him.
“We stand by our main point: Terminating Orrin Woodward and ridding Quixtar of his abusive business practices was absolutely the right thing to do.”
###
A copy of this press release can also be found on PR Newswire.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
August 24th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
Zero? How about negative credibility?
August 24th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Does this also mean the California lawsuit has a better chance of getting rejected and the case sent into arbitration?
August 24th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Dear Amway/Quixtar,
Pride comes before the fall.
August 24th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
You may have won in court today, but I guarantee you will lose “BIG TIME” in the
long run!!!
August 24th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
HOO ! HAH!
You crushed your distributors. You must be proud of your legal department.
August 24th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
I am incredibly surprised that quixtar won. I watched the entire hearing both days. This is a really surprising verdict. I’m curious to read the judges opinion.
August 24th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
who cares, anyone who hinges their life on this quixtar/TEAM BS just needs a real life. Something to occupy their time besides going out and trying to brainwash their friends. I hate TEAM and Im not happy with quixtar. But in the end Ill take quixtars business approach as opposed to the cult like religious slanders of the TEAM any day.
August 24th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
Quixtar is the best opportunity out there. I am proud to be associated with such moral, credible and profoundly professional people. Thankyou to Quixtar.
August 24th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
“Quixtar is the best opportunity out there. I am proud to be associated with such moral, credible and profoundly professional people. Thank you to Quixtar.”
I completely concur! The negative posters here must be taken with a grain of salt, as I have a feeling they’ve all be “taken” by the likes of distributors such as Woodward.
“I am incredibly surprised that quixtar won.”
I don’t see how you could be. As a matter of law, Alticor had all the standing they needed. The terms of the contract are pretty clear: your contract can be terminated for cause, and you can’t use the trade secret information (your LOS) to steal from the company or the existing IBOs.
August 24th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
Let me get this straight
You won these arguments?
1. That we are your property.
( Now we are DBO’s, Dependant business owners. )
2. That your “secrets” should remain “secret”.
( strange that you didn’t deny these secrets, you just want them back )
3. That you can now suspend / terminate any of us who want.
( Refer back to #1 )
And surprise, you did this in a town where “Devos & Van Andel are on every other building
( It’s the town the Jay factor has built )
For me, It is YOU that have lost all credibility.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
Have you check you ditto today???????
Was goes up must come down
August 24th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
I ahve always loved and stood by your products, defended my association with Amway/Quixtar to friends and relatives and with the exception of possibly 2 or 3 months hit my personal 100 PV, but I can’t find anyone that wants to buy and or sell the products due to the exorbitant prices.
I guess I will have to find a distributor to purchase from once September 1 rolls around and I don’t renew.
….Rich and Jay we miss you and everything you stood for…
August 24th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Like Me said that you would lose Big Time in the long run, best advertising is word of mouth.
Just wanted peace but like the movie 300 if you haven’t seen it you should you might have defeated a few soldiers and one returned after the battle let me stop,just fast forward it to the every end and you’ll get the message.
Proud of the defeat but you’ve forgotten the training that we received of honesty, character, transparency, and just good old fashion business to get to know wonderful human beings out there.
Also for those who have forgotten the meaning of IBO ( Independent Business Owner ).
Yes Quixtar/Amway or is it Amway or Alticor whatever will go on but remember that this is a people business that made of personal contact.
From a Team Member
August 24th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
Of course you wouldn’t have the guts to post what I really said now would you.
August 24th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
PeJayTey: You are welcome to resubmit your comment in a less vulgar context.
August 24th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Tex,
Please google the term ” california laws on non compete ” …might shed some light on TEAM’s chances there.
the bottom line is that if we need to sit out 6 months, we will.
you cannot stop an idea just because you don’t agree with it…you may slow us down, but you cannot stop us. and most will not put another nickel into the Q coffers after enduring comments about us being their “property”. what long lasting benefit to Q will we be? we won’t keep ordering. we won’t renew. so why would they want the little IBO’s ? one idea comes to mind…my bonus is NOT several thousand dollars like all the Plats and above who they’ve suspended and/or terminated. they would love to keep ME…just not the guys who are already making the $$$.
keep in mind,that I am getting very close to Plat, though, and if they can do it to others this time around, what will they do to me the next time they don’t want to play fair ?
there seems to be the assumption on the parts of many that just because we are in Team , that we are all automatons…walking around in a daze muttering ” Chris..Orrin..Chris…Orrin “.
let me state for the record that we are intelligent people who had a life before the Team and every decision I make is made in light of my personal ethics and value system. do I like being in a business where I believe I have found like minded people ? absolutely, but don’t assume that I am STUPIDLY following anyone !
many, many, many (if not 98%) of TEAM WILL leave. some of TEAM will stay with Q and some who were NOT with Team will leave and look for us and whatever we choose to pursue.
and most unfortunately, there will be some on both sides of this issue who will have lost their chance to ever do big things in this business because of all the publicity and animosity. how sad for us all !
August 24th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
I don’t understand, Alticor. You can’t help but say things like “his abusive buiness practices” when speaking of Orrin Woodward. What are these illegal practices? You don’t give specifics, you just say he does them. I don’t believe it, because you haven’t actually said what he has done. It can’t be the building system of cds and books we use because you have been fine with it for the past 7 years. It can’t be the way we build depth because you have told us before that it is completely fine. You know what I think it is. I think you are spotlight hungry. You are mad because we don’t use your name as often as we should. Why do you want the credit so badly? Haven’t you read enough books to know that great leaders never want the credit. They don’t care if they get the credit, as long as it gets done. Thats not you. You will never be great leaders. You will only be evil totalitarians who say that they don’t really need us, but won’t let us go? Thats a little strange don’t you think?
August 24th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
It’s no surprise that you won in michigan. Rich gave 500,000 dollars to the republican party and the judge is a republican. There are politics in everything of cource. Besides you getting back all your secrets about what the rest of the board doesn’t want you to know read the hearing information. The lawsuit was about Orin and Chris taking information to california that would hurt the rest of the board members livelyhoods and credibility. What your board member doesn’t want you to know about!
1. That the business will continue to do 1 billion in sales like they did 25 years ago.
2. That the Devos and VaAndal families will continue to make 8-10 times more off everything you retail then you make.
3. That they are nothing more then a feel good representative for us and have no say so anyways, we are employees as the Judge declared not Independent Business Owners.
4. That they all have international business now and you really don’t matter because they do make most of there income off tools anyways.
5. But in all sincerety that they do support Orin under the table but know that big brother is watching and will squash them too if they have any spine.
August 24th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
deann,
I did the google, and found a document that is being discussed on the “Order, from the court” thread. Doesn’t look good for TEAM, except through your TEAM colored glasses.
lol,
Abusive practices were reported to Quixtar by me, and probably others. The specifics would probably be better known, but Orrin’s lawsuit has been a hitch in sharing details. I want to see the details as well, and have asked for them on the corp blogs. I doubt Quixtar wants this kind of a spotlight. Think about it.
August 24th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
I know I wasn’t there, but history suggests that King George was thinking he won it all after the first skirmish.
August 24th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
I am ashamed to be associted with a company like Alticoe, Amway, Quixtar, we will not be renewing our membership, I was in before and it sucked we wife and I got in this time, because we liked what we saw in Orrin, Chris, Randy and the whole TEAM concept, it was really starting to kick in, now you screwed it up. so we’re gone and waiting for TEAM to start the right kind of MLM and then look out AMWAYm QUIXTAR, ALTICOr or whatever name you want to make yourself..
Keith Miller
August 24th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
Tex, were you a TEAM IBO?
August 24th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Let’s not forget that most TRO’s have been granted. Q* lost many more than they have won. So much for fair and ballanced reporting.
[i]“Big bad Quixtar won one court challenge over the little guy at home in Kent County,” Chris De Witt, spokesman for the IBOs, said. “When Quixtar goes on the road they have lost ten times with four pending.”
“Some very brave IBOs have blown the whistle on Quixtar’s illegal business practices,” De Witt added. “This is just one small skirmish in a very long and involved battle. In the end the IBOs will prevail.”
The list of granted and pending TROs is shown below:
TRO Filed – Berks County, PA - Granted
TRO Filed Gwinnette County, GA - Granted
TRO Filed Wright County, GA - Granted
TRO Filed Columbia, SC - Granted
TRO Filed Collin County, TX – Granted, Simmons v. Quixtar
TRO Filed in Genessee County, MI - Granted
TRO Filed in Oakland County, MI - Granted
TRO Filed Wayne County, MI - Granted, August 20, 2007, Gowan v. Quixtar, case no. 07-722348
TRO Filed Montgomery County, TX - Granted August 21, 2007, Walker v. Quixtar
TRO Filed U.S. District Court, New Hampshire - Granted August 21, 2007, Fish v. Quixtar, no. 07-CV-262
Pending TROs: Reading, PA; Hartford, CT; Lansing, MI; Maricopa County, AZ
Chris De Witt
De Witt Communications
P.O. Box 4952
East Lansing, MI 48826[/i]
August 24th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
John #20,
It took several months for the news to get back to King George in those days.
Keith #21,
Bub-bye.
Jerad #22,
It doesn’t matter. We are now back to regular programming. The massive tool profits are still the major issue, as they were prior to the TEAM dust up, during it, and after it. I will tell you this, I have several thousand tapes/CD’s from all the major lines of sponsorship, and if you hid the names, the particular voice sounds of the individuals, and some of the specific lingo, any of the tapes/CD’s could be from any of the organizations. TEAM had nothing special going on, they were simply a bright shooting star that has now burned out.
Also, I think the individual TRO’s were trumped by the decision by today’s Michigan court decision. By the names you provided however, it looks like Diamond pin Randy Walker, Emerald pin/Legacy CEO Ron Simmons, and Diamond pin Ted Fish are on TEAM’s side. Thanks for the information.
Moderator, can you get an answer on this issue? Thanks.
August 24th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
Tex, it does matter. As a TEAM IBO I know that what Q* is saying is a lie. Remember, I build the TEAM way so I am uniquely qualified to say that it isn’t stacking.
If you are sdaying that TEAM stacks then I think it is only fair that you tell me why you are more qualified than I to be able to make that call.
And the massive tool profits? They go back to the IBOs. It is, after all, only fair. What’s wrong with that?
August 24th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
for every link Tex can find to support his case, there will be 4 like this
http://www.nawbo-c.org/articles/Noncompete.html
August 24th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
additionally, check out this headline from another net source ( we all know we can believe all we read on the web, right ? )
Unlike the situation in other states, non-compete agreements are illegal in California and against public policy. (California Business and Professions Code Section 16600).
August 24th, 2007 at 10:07 pm
Tex: An answer on which issue, exactly?
August 24th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
Hey Tex, all the info I “gave” you was in a press release. Don’t tell me, you are Dan Rather’s fact checker!
August 25th, 2007 at 12:36 am
Quixtar, you really are showing your true colors. If you were really doing the right thing, there would be no need to gloat over a minor victory. (You won in GRAND RAPIDS! Is anyone surprised at that?) There would be no need to lie about the facts and slander anyone.
I signed an IBO registration form in 1999. At the time, I had no idea that by signing that document, I would be contractually obligated to things that were not there! Like a six months non-compete. I did believe, however, that the presence of the IBOAI would protect me if everyone at the corporation all went stupid at one time.
Silly, silly me. You think TEAM people are ruining your “good name?” You don’t need us to do that, do you?
August 25th, 2007 at 12:39 am
Oh, all of you people who are so good at retailing products, ask an Alticor/Quixtar/Amway employee how much they pay for the same products! You might be surprised.
There is a SUBSTANTIAL difference between what employees and IBOs pay for these fine products. Very, very substantial. So what is it? Do employees get products at cost? Quite a markup there–way more than any other manufacturer gets. Or does the corporation take a loss on employee sales? I’ll bet not.
August 25th, 2007 at 10:02 am
Jerad #25,
I personally attended multiple Opens and Seminars in different cities, and reported what I saw and heard to Quixtar. Now you’re gone. Clear enough? I don’t have an issue with stacking, as long as it is done properly, and stacking was not a topic reported to Quixtar.
The problem with massive tool profits is they create a total distortion of the true business model. When you hide where most of the profit comes from AND simultaneously causes massive net losses on the part of the IBO’s, you have a HUGE problem. The problem is SO massive and SO unethical, it AMAZES me it is still going on. Have you ever heard of the Rich DeVos “Directly Speaking” recordings?
Deann #26/7,
You’re right. That link doesn’t go anywhere. You can find words similar to what you posted in #27 in the link I posted, but you have to read the entire article to get a full understanding of the issue. Just like the loud and numerous posts on the freetheibo site, which now resembles a couple of crickets chirping in the night.
Moderator #28,
This issue: “Also, I think the individual TRO’s were trumped by the decision by today’s Michigan court decision.”
Jerad #29,
What was the source of your “press release”? Do you know the difference between a press release and the actual judge’s decision, posted on the IBOAI forum?
August 25th, 2007 at 10:15 am
George’s Girl #30/1,
You lost. Go lick your wounds and come back with the main lawsuit in California. Orrin’s lawyers think he’s the best thing since sliced bread as well. He’s paying them handsomely for their advice, which is in reality YOUR tool money, going right down the drain. Go Orrin, GO! Fired up!
Blame your upline for not telling you how important the rules are. Blame the IBOAI for not telling you what was going on and the real nature of their limited power.
Why don’t you tell us how much the employees pay, instead of whatever agenda you are trying to promote? I hope they get a good deal on all the products, just like any other company’s employees often do. I know there are good deals at the Outlet/Clearance store in Ada, open to IBO’s and employees. I’ve been there on multiple occasions myself.
August 25th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
George’s Girl, there’s a difference between basic manufacturing cost and actual cost of a product. The latter has to bear R&D, cost of inventory, and a variety of other very legitimate factors. As to what the owners want as a return on their investment, the publicly traded company I work for insists on an 18% ROI before taxes… otherwise their investors would be better off putting their money into mutual or private equity funds. The company I work for allows me their products “at cost” as a perk of working there. The happier and healthier the employees at Quixtar are, the happier and healthier I am too!!!
From your posts in various places, a significant deficiency I see in the Team training program is with undertanding basic principles of business.
August 25th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
More arrogance from the Q! Kind of like the skipper of the Exxon Valdez bragging about his driving skills! Quixtar wins a couple restraining orders and they post a post like this??? If you can’t get a restrainer order from a home county, former republican executive committee member judge in Grand Rapids then you should quit!!! The true test will be in the neutral courts and I haven’t seen where they have won anything on the road yet….sounds like the Detroit Lions of the legal world???
August 25th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Quixkicked,
You obviously haven’t read the Michigan judge’s ruling.
It is not a TRO, it is a ruling against Orrin and Co. on several grounds.
August 25th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
why do my posts keep getting deleted?
August 25th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Tex#32,
The profit is not hidden. It’s open for all TEAM members to see. We all know what to do to get the next level tool bonus.
And yes, it is massive. But it’s fair.
See, you would know, if you studied business, that if tools were very cheap or free the business owner would feel no real ownership in his business and would not give the education the attention it deserves. So it has to cost. It has to.
The point is to keep it affordable and devide the profits.
Again, what’s wrong with that?
And again, if you aren’t a member of TEAM why would you care?
August 25th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
Just for future reference, since it is constantly brought up by one or two of the individuals who blog here, I WAS informed ON MY FIRST NIGHT, that a large portion of any monies that I would eventually earn would come from what was called “profit sharing from business tools “. When I asked what that meant, it was instantly ( with not one second of hesitation or fumbling for words )explained…in detail.
So please stop stating that ALL of us have been hoodwinked, tricked, scammed, deceived or anything else in this area. If anyone has been, then I am truly sorry, but I resent being lumped in with every IBO who ever lost a buck in this business. Anyone who doesn’t know that the tools are a part of the business profits can NOT do the business if they choose. If you get into this business and find out that is the case and don’t like it, what have you lost ? $95 ? and some time and your pride that you didn’t ask some questions up front. Just quit if you don’t agree with where the money comes from.
Are there abuses ? I am sure, but just don’t assume that they are across the board. There are abuses in EVERY area of business and life for that matter.
I take a lot more offense at the university where my kid went to school and NO ONE ever mentioned that the general fees ABOVE the college hour credit charges added another $500 per semester to the cost until I got the bill ! What about full disclosure in ALL areas of business…and learning is big business no matter where you get it.
August 26th, 2007 at 12:08 am
Smaackkkkk….the sound you just heard was a FEDERAL JUDGE spanking Q all the way from Texas? The rather lengthy and restrictive TRO issued against Q trumps any ruling from the local boy elected Kent county judge. We know the Kent County judge will be seeking re-election soon and his decisions yesterday only ensured healthy campaign contributions from the Van Andel/Devos families. Texan’s have always been known for their affinity for independance and willingness to stand up for it. The Honorable Judge Bush did just that on Friday. Funny… there isn’t a single reference from the Q-spinners running this blog about that case. However they do seem a little agitated today… perhaps it’s just their sore backside that’s got them so testy.
See you at a million…
August 26th, 2007 at 1:39 am
TEX, it’s interesting that you post that you own(or listened to) thousands of tapes/Cd’s and have attended numerous opens/seminars around the country. You know then, there is profit in the tools. Why are you trying to take us down a bunny trail of issues not being argued. We all agree to tool profits. What has been made clear is that TEAM is the most generouse profit sharer in the organization. The REAL issue is the lawsuit. The lawsuit states that less than 3% of the sale of products is sold. That makes Quixtar an illegal pyramid and the TEAM business a legitimate profit- sharing leadership development company. We are not ashamed of tool profits,nor have we tried to hide it from other TEAM members. I can’t speak for other LOS’s, maybe they tried to cover that up and got burned by the transparency of the TEAMS busniess practices. The Quixtar organization took a turn that doesn’t fit in our business model, so we just want to continue to build leadership skills (and profit share doing so)and use another portal to buy and SELL our products from. This is not so complicated that you must assume alterior motive. It is clear in the filed lawsuit that the TEAM founders are not looking for money, they are looking for the ability to make an HONEST living.
August 26th, 2007 at 4:27 am
Tex#32,
I just noticed your question about where I got my press release. Google “quixtar” and check the links for the local MI news. It’s all over it.
Also, why would you think that Orrin makes any more from tools than anyone else can? This is as false as saying that no one can make as much money as Dexter Yager can from Amway because he has been in longer. You don’t seem to know how the TEAM tool bonus works. Yet you claim that you do, and even claim to have reported abuses.
Interesting…care to tell us the real story? Because I think you’ve been blowing smoke.
August 26th, 2007 at 11:05 am
Friday’s verdicts were of no surprise to anyone with given the home court advantage and all the connections (and all legal mind you - but as in our business, the legal system is a network of relationships and leaders) between Sullivan, Devos and the Repulican Party of Michigan. The surprise would have been a ruling in favor for any of the IBOs!
The real challenges for the company will occur in the weeks ahead as the Califonia case unfolds and as perhaps in the thousands of more indepedent cases are filed around North America forcing Quixtar to follow their own rules and procedures regarding the bonus income of all their Team-related IBOs and not suspending and/or terminating them without proper cause. To my knowledge, not one Platinum and above has been specifically notified by phone or by certified mail (as email communication does not construe a ‘written’ communicae) which rules SPECIFICALLY they are in violation of! Due process does not begin with guily until proven innocent no matter who you are friends with or get supplied leadership and motivational materials that the company doesn’t like.
With the gravity of the allegations being made in all the exisiting suits and perhaps the aggregious amount that will follow in the weeks ahead it won’t be long until the FTC takes notice. With the amount of noise being made by both sides you can expect a Federal Trade Commission inquiry sometime soon. If I had to guess it would be sometime after the merits of the California case are decided upon. If that case moves forward to jury trial, you can bet the FTC is going to be involved and sniffing arounf every nook and cranny of the company - and EVERYTHING will be revealed. The simple fact that they are privately owned and are as successful financially as they are opens them up to a base amount of scrutiny into the allegations. The company is smart though - very, very smart. They have done business for a long time and created a very successful company in the process so they are not unfamiliar with the tactics to use during these battles. HOWEVER, the also will keeping their pulse on which direction the case will take in California in mid September and if it goes ANY way, but if they take a read that says that the case will actually go to trial. I think you may see a settlement occur to keep the barbarians known as the FTC at the gate. It’s one thing to mess around in court - It’s another thing when you have a love/hate relationship and history as the company does with the FTC.
I am eager to see what happens in the next 3 weeks. Until then…
August 26th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
rnffemt #37,
Unless you are being completely rude or vulgar, your posts should appear. Unlike the freetheibo forum, where several people have been “banned” for asking the “wrong” questions.
Jerad Smith #38,
How do you know whether I have asked my upline AND the TEAM office and received no response? When the numbers come out, I will be glad to share the string of e-mails that have taken place.
Simple. It’s wrong because the business model described to prospects and IBO’s is a lie.
I care because I care about honest business dealings, and ALL of the other tool systems, with the exception of iteamusa (which I am NOT a member of, ONLY because they don’t offer local Open and Seminar support), have similar profit for the upline. I am not “picking” on TEAM, but they are claiming to have “character and integrity”, so let’s see some for a change.
Deann #39,
This isn’t consistent with the supposed prohibition of describing tool profits. If you know, tell us how much they make, in detail. However, it is consistent with TEAM breaking the rules. You guys can’t have it both ways.
santhony #40,
We should soon learn the significance (or lack thereof) of the Texas ruling. Will you crawl back into your hole when you are proven wrong?
Fig #41,
You need to bark up another tree. I didn’t learn these things attending functions or listening to tapes/CD’s, nor have I been able to get this information from the TEAM office or my upline. The reason this is important from the perspective of the lawsuit is TEAM is suing Quixtar regarding overpriced products, but has no issue with the overpriced tools that have created the vast majority of their profit, while simultaneously ruining the financial standing of literally millions of Distributors/IBO’s over the past few decades. THAT is why this is important.
Jerad #42,
I also found the press releases on the 10 TRO’s. Do you realize how insignificant these TEMPORARY orders are? I know the TEAM prices, I know other tool system prices. They are all so similar a price fixing action could easily be taken. The point is not how much money they make, it is the fact we don’t know how much they make, although we have plenty of evidence from a variety of sources.
I’ve been telling the real story, and blew the smoke in the direction of Quixtar, who realized where there’s smoke, there’s fire. And they probably “fired” Orrin and Co. as a result of my and probably others’ input.
HereIStand #43,
I agree that all of us need to know more details regarding the specific rules broken. The information we have so far is completely inadequate. I wouldn’t hold my breath it will all be over by mid-September, as these proceedings are often delayed for months, if not years.
August 26th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
I’m sick and tired of all the rehtoric. I’ve been around this business for 12 plus years, and we were NOT told at signing that MOST OF THE PROFITS YOU MAKE are in the tool end of it, we were not told that in order to make a profit at 7500pv, you had to have another leg of at least 2500pv on the side until the day before we thought we were qualifying for SILVER. It was refreshing to hear of Woodwards example of giving MORE back to the little guy. The retailing end of this business DOES NOT WORK, because you can go to a corner Walmart, and buy something that will do the job. Yeah, we’ve preached, concentration, and excellent products till my husband and I are hoarse, and still can’t get in enough “buyers” to make it to the platinum level. I believe in FREE ENTERPRISE, there are thousands of successful examples all around us, that make up this country. So what exactly was SO EVIL about TEAMS approach to help even the average guy get more? We are brainwashed, in the group that we belong to, in thinking if we are not putting out $120 monthly on tools we are not LEADERS, and not serious about building a business, and won’t have the support of our mentors, like the “IBO” who does invest in the tools. It’s all HOGWASH, just give me something that is reasonably marketable…
August 26th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
Tex #24
Actually, there are multiple financial and business websites, worldwide, that are reporting the same information that Chris DeWitt provided regarding the TROs.
As for a ‘circuit’ court trumping a ‘federal district’ court - unheard of!
As far as tool monies are concerned, I seriously question your claims regarding BSMs are concerned. TEAM’s profit sharing (alluded to by Dean #39 and Fig #41) is in fact the most generous and evenly distributed out there.
I personally know Emeralds and Diamonds in OTHER organizations that have been denied profit sharing monies as certain “kingpin” orgaizations have kept the money for themselves. What is more…the cost in the OTHER organizations is more than double the the cost of CD’s in TEAM’s system…the cost of seminars in OTHER organizations are no less than FOUR times greater than TEAM’s (and TEAM leaders back the cost of the seminar tickets with a money back guarantee to anyone checking out the business…however, when it comes to the content value, TEAM’s materials are far more valuable in the areas and building not only a business and improving one’s self.
There are numerous lawsuits that have been filed against Q and their “kingpin” diamonds that attest to what I mentioned in the previous paragraph. A simple GOOGLE search for Q / A Lawsuits will provide you with that information.
There also exists a lawsuit in the United Kingdom questioning Q’s right to seize these organization’s BSM sales.
The question that looms in my mind is this: How can any man or organization dictate to me what type of self help material (whether it be to make me more successful in business, improve on my people skilss, etc.) I choose to buy and where I buy said material?
What is next? Will the rulers of Q determine that one’s current ‘day job’ is in direct conflict with the business he/she hopes to build and thereby terminate the IBO? Will they find that where one chooses to worship differs from their beliefs in some small matter of theology and demand IBO sign a paper renouncing his/her faith to follow the holy law of Q?
Perhaps at first glance these questions sound extreme, but a study of history will show that history is replete with examples of one person or nation so hungry for power that they feed off the liberties and freedoms of others until those souls are enslaved.
Right now the evil faced is the ideology of a small few who would strip our liberties under the guise of security and threaten free enterprise. Better it would be to safeguard our freedom, while we still have it, than to fight in the shackles of slavery.
August 26th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
#39 Deann said: “I WAS informed ON MY FIRST NIGHT, that a large portion of any monies that I would eventually earn would come from what was called “profit sharing from business tools.”
Um….Doesn’t this seem a bit of a conflict of interest? If you were told the first night that a large amount of $$ would be made by selling “tools”, then you were being taught that very first night to sell “tools” rather than the Quixtar-exclusive products.
Perhaps the TEAM doesn’t make any money on the movement of products, not because it can’t be done, but because that’s not their focus. They’ve found it much easier to sell “hope” in the form of a CD, book, etc., than a Quixtar-exclusive product.
This is the negative that all have to deal with, as we attempt to build the Sponsoring (not the retail) part of our QUIXTAR businesses.
When we go out and share the QUIXTAR IBO Compensation Plan, we must face the negative crap on the Internet, created by organizations like TEAM. The negative truths that people (like TEAM) don’t make money from the movement of products, but rather make their money by the movement of “tools” (even though the original intent of the tools was to teach/train/motivate in order to move product).
I’ve gone from being surprised to stunned that this practice (using the Quixtar Business Opportunity as a safe haven to sell motivational products) doesn’t seem to be bad, wrong, unethical, fill in the blank, to any of the TEAM players.
August 26th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
I think some of you guys are forgetting the real issue. A buildable businness for not only our generation, but the next. With the current pricing and the name change to amway let’s face it, even though I stood behind this plan for over 6 years and have achieved some success with the old quixtar model do you really think the new amway brand will work?? I’m a positive person, but I’m not stupid. They changed the deal with no representation and the new puppet iboia board (since the others resighned) is definitely not looking out for our best interests, or they just have no power. Either way, I think the people with character will soon be finding a new source of income in a plan in wich they can believe and be proud of. It’s really to bad I enjoyed being an IBO ,however, now that I’m officialy property of Q star I will declare my independance.
August 26th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
John #46,
The point is Orrin’s zombies managed to get TEMPORARY restraints, do you understand the nature of a TEMPORARY restraint? It is quite different than the two day hearing in Michigan, where both sides gave their sides of the issues. How do we know the tool “profit sharing” is fair? We can’t get anyone to say what it is. Save the “liberty and slavery” talk for the freetheibo forum, it fits better there. This is a business, not a social struggle.
Bridgett #47,
You are correct, but even the non-stacking groups have this problem.
August 27th, 2007 at 1:30 am
Has Dick Devos been notified of what is going on? It seems to me that he could come in and be the Hero/Mediator here. The Devos and VanAndel families have a track record of being men of integrity and character. I can’t imagine that the 25,000 votes he stands to lose in the next Governors race is worth all this. I think that the attorneys love this because they stay busy but the families have got to be done with this trivial Woodward/Brady deal. The IBO put the people into the business anyway, not Quixtar. A bunch of millionaires fighting this out in court isn’t helping anyone. Come on Dick, show the country what a great mediator you are and end this.
August 27th, 2007 at 2:31 am
Tex -
Your knowledge of the company’s history, plights and legal skirmishes is extensive; however, your blogs tend to be a bit knee-jerkish and with tunnel-vision on “tool money”. You have made many good points in your comments, but you are missing the boat. From your writing, I would guess this is intentional. You obviously are intelligent and a master at obfuscating the point.
First of all, not one of the court cases you refer to involves “tool money”. So get off your soapbox.
Second, the “tools” are optional and many, I would even say even most, IBOs do not partake in the practice of buying tools. Therefore, are not going broke on “tools”.
Third, the “tool business” is not a clandestine operation, but (thanks to TEAM) a well explained part of the business.
Lastly, the viability of maintaining a retail business is at issue in the California case. You see the retail side of the business model is not optional, like the “tools”. I’m glad you have done extensive research on the prices; however, you haven’t published this research nor has it be audited. Regardless of your “research”, the facts remain that only a nominal percentage of the sales volume is from the IBOs retailing products. As you point out, most IBOs are not making large amounts of money. Do you think if they could sell more products they would? I mean, to make money at their business – isn’t that their goal? Or do you think they like not making money. Again, to keep you on point, this has nothing to do with “tools”. Many IBOs are flailing at their retail businesses and have never bought a single “tool”.
I’m sorry you had bad experiences with the thousands of dollars of “tools” you bought, but perhaps it is because you didn’t use the information on them to build a business. Hey, I know. There were a lot of books I bought throughout my undergraduate and graduate programs from top-ten and top-20 schools, respectively, that I thought were overpriced. And yet, there are a few that are worth way more than their weight in gold.
I understand that you feel that the optional educational system promoted by Team is overpriced. And you are entitled to that opinion. I’m sure you are just as zealous with your attacks regarding professors requiring books that they author and sell for massive premiums. Can you let me know where I can find these scathing attacks? Or is your righteous anger and integrity selective in its wrath?
Tex, get off your high horse. Your one-tracked mind is out of place here.
August 27th, 2007 at 11:00 am
I was NEVER told to focus on tool sales..NEVER. I didn’t even go on system right away AND NO ONE PUSHED ME TO . What I was told was that after I worked my business and reached a certain level, that I would be allowed to share the profits that come back to the business owners….and THAT IS FAIR. I was, OF COURSE, told that the business model itself was about the ecommerce side. Anybody would be an idiot to think that this whole business was about selling cds and books. And I have spent 10 times as much money buying products thru Qs portal as I have buying tools, by the way. I have supported Quixtar in every way I knew how, I have lauded the product quality, I have argued that price in not important if you are building a business, I have done it all. I have bought samples and given away as much ( or more ) than I have personally used, hoping that people would SEE how much better the products are. I bought the sample B2B gift cards to take around to businesses and show them and try to sell the cards as “one size fits all” corporate gifts. But when it came right down to it, this is a HARD business in todays economy …at least in our area. The bottom line here ( we’re not metro or anywhere near it…average income is one of the lowest in the country ) IS price and people who are GENUINELY worried about whether they can make the mortgage are NOT going to pay $24 for a box of detergent because they don’t HAVE $24 at one time…they’ll pay $2 at the dollar store even though they’ll have to do it again next week.
…who is making money off that little charge ? Do you really think they cost what they are charging us ? I’ve been in business for myself. I know what kind of deal you can get on a brochure, flyer, even a full product catalog when you get enough volume. If it’s something they’re forcing us to do, let THEM pay for them…not me !
Just a thought as to why some of us THINK the prices are an obstacle.
And just because the name change isn’t final for 18 months, don’t you think that the new brochure we are OBLIGATED to give prospects that says AMWAY on it, as of Sept 1, will be a tip off ? And the cost of the brochures ( even though we’ll all get 5 free ones at first
And one final thought, WE have not created the neg on the internet…if Q had just agreed to give better prices on core products …NONE of this would have happened.
August 27th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Saved #48,
Bub-bye.
ivan omaley #50,
We don’t need a “Hero/Mediator”, we need someone who has some backbone to tell the truth. Forget the governor’s race, let’s get our priorities straight and fix what’s broke.
Maxwell Smart #51,
First: Are you serious? I can list several that revolved around the tool profit issue. TIF, Anderson, Morrison, Stewart, Hart. All tool “spinoffs” probably centered around tool profit, why would someone go to that much trouble if there weren’t big bucks involved? It would be a major hassle to develop your own system, do the care and feeding of it, etc., if there wasn’t a major financial upside. You must be the REAL Maxwell Smart.
Second: I agree that only the IBO’s who buy the tools go broke buying tools, Maxwell Smart.
Third: Great, then explain it. With numbers.
Lastly: Retail IS optional in the uplines’ eyes. THAT is the point, and where TEAM will fall on their face, as they make ZERO reasonable attempt at retailing. I was even taught by my upline how to fudge the computer, and have told Quixtar of this experience, which is probably quite common, in TEAM and other organizations. This is why IBO’s are failing at retailing. Think about how much MORE money the upline makes on tools by spending the time promoting them instead of retailing, which is time consuming to learn and do for most IBO’s. They have huge markups on the tools and don’t have to share the markups like they do when a Quixtar product is sold. Follow the money Maxwell Smart, and you will find your answer, as is true with many other situations outside of Quixtar. Perhaps Agent 99 can help you if needed.
If you were truly sorry, you would join the demand for the truth.
My professors never claimed to be my “business partner” or “teammate”. Learn the difference and you will understand, Maxwell.
Hi Ho, Silver, away!
Deann #52,
That’s the beauty of it. The tools appears to be a soft-shoe situation, but they aren’t. I went off standing order over two years ago, and haven’t heard a peep out of my upline since. Not a single visit. Not a single phone call. Not a single e-mail (unless a bulk one they send to everyone). Not a single Christmas party invite. Not a single invite to covered dish or other training opportunities. Nothing. Dead silence.
If you live in a low income area, your upline should be able to help with how to retail, you’re not the only one in that situation, and they have had almost half a century to come up with strategies that work for this situation.
I have to conclude they don’t care about you nearly as much as they care about your tool money.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Tex,
I have been a business owner for 16 years. Real business,not networking… retail business where my customers spoke with their pocketbooks. If they didn’t like my prices, they shopped elsewhere. Regardless of quality…because there are other businesses like mine who had equally high quality items..in some cases the EXACT items & those other stores lowered prices ( because of volume or desperation…who knows ) and they got more market share than I did in many cases. Superior service can keep some of those buyers, but only to a degree. And guess what…those other high quality businesses ALSO can offer superior service. It’s a sad fact, but true. PRICE IS A FACTOR !
Hmmmm….interesting concept…get more competitive and draw a bigger piece of the action.
So that’s all I now want to do now….shop elsewhere.. I just don’t like Qs prices anymore….and don’t think I should be held captive to a pricing structure that I know is helping pay for Peter Island, Diamond trips to Hawaai, yearly bonuses of millions of dollars to a select few.
How about a few more people at the bottom get that soap at a better price and more top guns pay for their own stinking trips ! Did I know that was the case early on ? Nope…those perks weren’t disclosed. Did I even think that it was unfair when I found out ? Nope..not till I realized that Q was also padding their pockets with the J-factor. Not just covering costs and making a decent profit, but making a fortune .
Now, I’m mad and I don’t want, and don’t intend to take it anymore. Six months to wait, if necessary…who cares ? It’ll be the sweetest six months of my life.
Quixtar DOES NOT own me !
August 27th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
In response to Team IBO’s that claim that quixtar is an illegal Pyramid. the longer you stay connected to this blog and the longer you wait to leave Quixtar the longer you will have to wait for your six months of inactivity to take place.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
Deann, think about it. $.50 (fifty cents) isn’t too far off the cost of developing/printing/packaging a 5-pack of a 12-page full color brochure. Compare the $2.50 cost of a 5-pack to what you willingly pay for a system CD. And you only have to GIVE it to your prospect (contrasted with SHOWING it to them) when you are signing them up. Or you can choose to give it to them if you think they are interested and want time to think it over. Quixtar U initial training should be free or considered within your registration fee, but when Quixtar starts providing your business tools for free is the day the IRS begins to look at you as an EMPLOYEE, not an independent contractor, business owner.
By comparison, the System I’m affiliated with uses a 12-page full color STP brochure (based on some adaptations from TEAM, as it turns out) and they charge me $10 for a 5-pack… thats $2.00 per, or 5 TIMES what Quixtar is charging. Who is making money off that???? Actually, I am, if I’m registering people and getting some systematized Quixtar product volume going (ie. initial order, Ditto) at or shortly after sign-up.
August 27th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
Deann,
Get your head out of the sand. If the business is so hard then why are you even in it..even still considering being in it…and if you think the cost of the company brochures are high…what must you think of the cost of Team CD’s….LOL
August 27th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
#50 Ivan Omaley
Hey man you got it,
It would take guts and leadership for Devos to step in now and help put a positive end to this. If he could pull it off maybe he could even help fix the economy in our state. Do you think he’s tough enough??????? There’s a lot of votes on the line.. Guess we’ll watch and see
August 27th, 2007 at 11:04 pm
Deann #54,
Your “real” business operates in a different business model. We don’t have to play the game of lowest price at all costs (including net loss/bankruptcy). I agree you should go away, and let those of us who understand the differences explain the business to others who either understand or are willing to learn the differences, and move the business forward. I will glady hold the door open for you to walk out.
Eric #55,
I doubt participation in this blog delays their 6 month/2 year time period. However, the longer they stay here the more they will learn they have been mislead and are making a Big… Huge… Mistake, if they go with Orrin and Co. Perhaps Quixtar should post a disclaimer, something to the effect of “Participation in this blog has been found to be detrimental to your ignorance”.
rdknyvr#56,
The quality of the QBOB’s (and future ABOB’s) will probably allow them to be reused many times over. Can you do that with your $2 plans?
MarDJay #57,
You made that “sand” mistake again. Just think darker.
Also, those CD’s have “character and integrity” built in, let’s not forget that benefit. Quality is more important than price, right? Oops, just blew the basis of the lawsuit. Sorry Orrin.
Saved #58,
I suggest you hold your breath until Mr. DeVos does that. In fact, why don’t you all put on your blue suits, red ties, and white shirts, and go back to the courthouse and hold all of your breaths collectively? THAT should do the trick.
August 28th, 2007 at 12:30 am
#57,
The cost of a TEAM CD? What? Is 6 dollars exensive for you? Do you know of any that are cheaper?
August 28th, 2007 at 1:10 am
#52 Deann:
Actually, from what I understand you get 3 (or maybe it’s 5) more QBOBs (Quixtar Business Opportunity Brochures) for every third person you sponsor.
Question: Why would you complain about spending $2.50 for 5 QBOBs but gladly bend over and purchase BSMs from your upline?
Some people’s priorities are seriously askew.
August 28th, 2007 at 1:18 am
#50, #58 Ivan Omaley & Saved:
That’s a dumb idea.
Unless you really believe that Dick Devos’ divine presence would actually turn Woodward & Brady into ethical gentlemen. In which case… “Dick? Ya got a minute?”
Maybe the Pope can come mediate too?
August 28th, 2007 at 4:19 am
Deann #52 said: “WE have not created the neg on the internet…if Q had just agreed to give better prices on core products …NONE of this would have happened.”
None of this would have happened, if Orin and Gang didn’t whip up some 47-page piece of crap lawsuit claiming a 48-year old multi-billion dollar global company was illegal, when they didn’t get their way when the Corp. refused their absurd “Amicable Separation” Agreement.
August 28th, 2007 at 7:57 am
You can watch the whole thing play out in a more balanced format at:
http://crazyfunwildworld.blogspot.com/
It lists all official releases by Team and Quixtar, on the order they were released, as well as some commentary.
August 28th, 2007 at 10:46 am
TEAM members posting.
You have to stop trying to reason with someone like TEX (as this individual has posted “and been blocked” from posting in other forums) For reasons known as “Trolling” and just trying to spread his negative 95% thinking among further unprofessional posts…
No reason to attempt to lower to this type of character.
I say this is just one loss, and it is sad to think some posters think a Michigan (circuit court) is going to override anything in another state has no concept of a legal system.
“People of integrity wait for time to prove them right” No matter the slander here Chris and Orin have integrity, others here have shown their morals, integrity and character…
I speak through actions, Alticor will see that in their bottom line
August 28th, 2007 at 11:27 am
Jerad Smith #60,
Is free cheaper? Check out the tools at www.quixtartools.com. In order to support my own business, I have purchased well over 10,000 tapes/CD’s and hundreds of books, for an average of less than $0.20 (including shipping) and about $1, respectively. Is that cheaper? By the way, I have also listened to a sample of the various tools, and they are all amazingly similar. If you didn’t look at the label or know the person, it could be a TEAM tool, one from N21, Britt, Internet, etc.
GirlPower #61,
You go, Girl! Go Diamond.
Bridgett #63,
Ditto what I said to GirlPower.
Tom #64,
I like what you did with your forum, by allowing more open and instant feedback, but there are already so many blogs it even overloads me!
August 28th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
Tex #59
Yeah I know what your saying about the ignorance of staying on this blog . for evry day I spend reading this blog it takes 10 days off building a profitable and balanced business I think the difference between Team IBO’s and other IBO’s out there is that Team IBO’s are unable to admit thier own ignorance.
August 28th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
George #65,
You don’t have to reason with me, just answer the simple questions that are asked. Your 95% thinking label makes no sense, I am asking 5% questions. As a member of the “B” quadrant, I would like to know, from a cash flow perspective, how much my “business partners” and “teammates” are making on the tool money I give them. Simple stuff. It is 95% “E” thinking that doesn’t understand this simple principle.
Eric #67,
TEAM IBO’s do not have a corner on the market of being unable to admit their own ignorance.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:10 am
Tex i really think the corporation put you up to this, being in this blog, you bounce back and forth “talk like you know how the team operates” but in every case you are proven wrong by another person or you make statements that are half true about the team, the comments about system and how that is conflict of interest i think are the words you used, you have got to be getting a headache from kidding yourself, if you really have a business with quixtar you must be really good at motivating them or you know what you know because some lawyer told you so.
just by how you handle yourself here tell all of us you are a good STORY TELLIER” or s semi seasoned lawyer, you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you cant fool us all.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:14 am
eric v
#28
the definition of ignorance is lack of knowledge and i hope you know that much.
good luck with your 30 qualifying interviews= no ibos
been there done that.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:51 am
Wow, it is an amazing twist that the only judge in the USA who bought it, was the one in DeVos’s back yard.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Tex # 68
You stated you want to know how much other IBOs make on tools. Great question.
I want to know how much a college makes on every text book they promote for their classes they teach. However, (maybe my poor searching) I have been unable to locate this information.
I tend to look at things in the “Context” upon which they apply. Not the context upon which they “become” applied.
As any group in the quandrant, there is education available. I am sorry if you feel not understanding education is an Employee. I know there are millions of educated employees that would differ with you on that point though.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
reality check #69,
Gosh, how did you guess the corp “put me up to this”? How have I been proven wrong, most of what I do is ask questions? I agree you need what your name is, a reality check.
What if I’m a good story teller AND a semi-seasoned lawyer, what would you make of that?
Mary #71,
He’s also the only lawyer who had a full, 2 day hearing.
George #72,
It wasn’t poor searching, it was a poor analogy. Did your college ever tell you they wanted to be your “business partner” or “teammate”, or ever misrepresent where they made the vast majority of their profit? I apply the context as well, that’s why I pointed out the weakness of your analogy.
I have no idea what you are trying to say in your last paragraph, not that I am surprised.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
Been an IBO with Q twice, once was spider ball way and the second was TEAM way. I lost friends in Spiderball land, I have made more freinds than I can count, in ther TEAM way. No renewal here as I will follow the real leaders.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
TEAM is operating like a cult.
August 30th, 2007 at 12:58 am
Mary #74,
Bub-bye.
jthompson #75,
I have always had an issue with the cult charge. Although there are some aspects of TEAM and all tool groups that are cult-like, so is a “fired-up” football team. I think we lose credibility when using the “c” word.
Also, using the “c” word covers up the real issue, which is hiding the truth, especially when it comes to the tool profits, the largest source of profit in this business for the upline, and the largest source of loss for the vast majority of the downline. For those who believe I am a broken record, what is more fundamental in business than where the profit and losses come from?
August 30th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
76Tex,
agreed… i was tired up writing long blogs….
Tex you are a workhorse on these blogs!!!
I think all this debate and criticism is very good.
I think the field has more communication with the Corporation that ever before b/c of the internet and blogging…
August 30th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
TEX - it seems you are not fired up about tools pricing???
I have no problem with the tool systems i have seen….
I worked for and promoted Steven Covey seminars - $1500-2000 for 3 half days
Tony Robbins was my mentor when i was 18-21 - I spent $3495 ($5000 w/hotel,travel,food) to go to my first main seminar for 4 days with him.
It was worth it at the time!
CDs by Covey or Robbins are $10-20 each.
I don’t think a $7 tape/cd is too much.
$100 is a joke. They are ripping themselves off!
August 30th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
Tex
1. I know this has been repeated over and over and over and over…….but I’ll TRY and get through one more time. The TEAM tools profit sharing plan is available to anyone on TEAM. If you’re not on TEAM, simply put, it’s none of your business. If YOUR group leaders won’t tell you their tool profits, that’s between you and them. TAKE IT UP WITH THEM!
2. Since you seem to like to take others to task for not answering your questions, why won’t you answer my original question? To refresh your memory: If you have developed your own tool system, why don’t you build the business using it?
August 30th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
jthompson #77/78,
Thanks, now “all” we need is results. The problem with this logic is these other folks are generally paid once, they have marketing costs, and we know how they make their money. Compare those factors with your upline.
Ohio IBO #79,
I don’t mind repeating it over as long as necessary. Getting the truth in front of the new readers is essential, and I may even pick up a few “long-timers” as well.
I will also try to get through one more time. The “profit sharing” plans of most tool systems are available to anyone in their groups as well. No difference there.
You don’t have to be on TEAM to know the profits. The other tool systems are similarly priced, and if the production costs are similar, the profits are similar as well. Besides, I saw on one of the blogs recently a TEAM IBO bragging about making twice as much from tools than Quixtar at the Platinum level, and another expecting more profit from tools than Quixtar at the Platinum level. Two separate sources, consistently saying about the same thing. No difference there.
I did take it up with them (the upline AND the TEAM office, no answers from either).
When the tool profit issue gets fixed, I will be willing to spend my time, effort, and money to build the business. If the tool profit problem isn’t fixed, I very like would be wasting my time, effort, and money on something that may not be around long term. There are also a couple of other things Quixtar has said they are working on, which will make my tool system much more effective. I have answered this question from a variety of other bloggers many times, sorry if I missed it once when you asked it again, for the umpteenth time.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:19 am
Hey Tex, what’s your real name or are you just to good for the rest of us to know it.
Are you a AMWAY employee may as well start calling it that cause it will be here before we know it oh goodie not. Anyways who’s side you on the IBO’s or the Corporations. Tool profit that’s your beef really? How about how much college text books cost and college tuition both the tools and the text books are optional atleast at platinum I can participate in the tool bonuses unlike the $200 texts books kiss that money good bye. and that was one book hello? Why don’t you have a problem with the corporation only paying out 30% of what they take in. They are the lowest in the industry. Maybe that’s why the owners can have their hands in a thousand different businesses outside of alticor, access, amway & quixtar. so much for a non compete there. oh that’s right the kids never actually built the biz that’s way their allowed to do all that. funny isn’t it. The real funny thing is that they paid so called marketing experts to come up with rocket monkey for the ad campaign talk about stupid.
So tex who are you and what level in the business are you and how many years have you been involved.
Oh and you should work for dateline they probably need another spy/spinster/tattletale cause they really did a great job getting all angles of the story. NOT
August 31st, 2007 at 11:47 am
81/Rich,
Tex is ok - he is doing a noble work… keeping all the confused TEAM ibos busy all day blogging. He makes some great points.
but i am still learning Tex’s view on tools.
I am with you Rich - Like i have said before… before the business…. i have spent $1500 on Covey seminars and $5000 for Tony Robbins seminars… they were worth it to the people who went. Now how is a $100 seminar that more valuable to a amway ibo than a $5000 Robbins seminar… b/c the information is more applicable/customizable… and plus you can bring your downline with you.
Tex i think has memorized the amquix website?
I went to that website which was focused on the “evilness of the tools”, i went through all the trash… listened to Dexter Yager 10 hours talking about the tools (by the way this was on the website to be negative… ended up building my belief more than anything… and educated me on his history of tool business and why it was started). I listened to the directly speaking and all kinds of stuff…..
Initially i was cautious and slightly worried… but after going through the info and filtering it through a brain cell…. i got fired up! I heard dex, doug wead, amway lawyers… etc…. in closed meetings in 82′ and realized the awesome hearts these leaders have….. and i realized the business has changed and improved radically since 82′…
Tex - take the red pill… its a lot more fun than the blue pill
Tex - keep on blogging… you are doing good…
August 31st, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Rich #81,
I’m just too good for you, Rich to tell you my name.
No, I’m not “a AMWAY” (should have used “an”, by the way) employee. I’m on the side of truth, which has been found to be lacking for most IBO’s. If you told the truth about tool profits to your fellow “teammates” and “business partners”, I wouldn’t have an issue with that, either. But I also believe you would have far fewer IBO’s in your organization.
Where did you get your 30% number from? And what does that have to do with their other business interests?
Plus, we sign the non-compete, they don’t.
I don’t answer personal questions, because the goal of you knowing is to hurl personal attacks. I speak on behalf of all IBO’s who want tool profit honesty, so it doesn’t matter what my level is.
You expected Dateline to be accurate and cover all sides of a story? Now THAT’S funny. The real question did Dateline raise valid concerns? The answer is “Yes”, and these concerns have been largely ignored.
August 31st, 2007 at 2:43 pm
jthompson #82,
You are allowed to have your opinion, just as I am allowed to have mine. My goal is not to change your mind, just to educate others.
I don’t need a red or blue pill, Double X is fine.
I will keep blogging, with or without your “encouragement”.
August 31st, 2007 at 11:12 pm
84,
Tex we are melancholy and sanguine - if we can get along, anyone can.
September 1st, 2007 at 3:49 pm
jthompson,
I’m a high “D” (DISC), also called choleric in other books. However, I have read these books and learned about the other personality types and learned to balance my own natural tendencies.
I am known to be able to get along with virtually anyone, even prior to being exposed to these books, probably because I have a decent amount of the other 3 major personality traits as well.
However, I refuse to “trap” myself with the “D” label by considering it a weakness, try to suppress it, etc., and will gladly make use of my “D” when necessary, especially when other bloggers attempt to spew untrue and undefendable garbage.
September 4th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
86tex,
me too - the DISC (the model i first learned at at TEAM IN FOCUS first function in 2001… its for learning, not labeling/limiting.
My Choleric gets awakened when I see a Bully messing with my friends which is what i perceive happening with Orrin W., etc… trying to take down Quixtar…