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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
August 22nd, 2007 @ 6:57 pm ET…
Update
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
Today’s hearing is not yet concluded. Out of respect for the court and process, we will not comment on these matters until the judge issues a ruling.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
August 22nd, 2007 at 8:44 pm
It sounds like there is a lot of material that the court is having to review before making a decision.
August 22nd, 2007 at 10:39 pm
This is a one day delay, doesn’t TEAM realize our great American judicial system will be used to delay this case way beyond the 6 month/2 year timeframe they would have to wait prior to joining another MLM/approach known IBO’s, respectively?
There are plenty of examples of successful retailing, my position is TEAM doesn’t have a chance.
The only winners will be the lawyers on both sides. We will all pay for the Quixtar lawyers via higher prices.
GO TEAM, GO!!! FAR, FAR, AWAY!!!
August 22nd, 2007 at 11:10 pm
Seems the TEAM IBOs behind the TEAM forums are now banning anyone who disagrees with them. Not exactly the actions of the “freedom fighters” they are trying to picture themselves as.
August 22nd, 2007 at 11:58 pm
#2 Please give examples of retaling products. Last i looked it was only 3% of all business accounted for.
And we are trying to go…I wish we were able to
August 22nd, 2007 at 11:58 pm
ibofightback
look at where you’re getting your information. The same company who posted the “articles” on this site.
August 23rd, 2007 at 12:03 am
And it would be a good idea to read beforehand;
forums.freetheibo.info
Free The IBO: Stop Quixtar Amway Pyramid Pricing IBO Forum
Forum rules
We prefer that you be a independent business owner wanting to learn and share facts without fear of corporate reprisal or banishment.
1) No linking to any site
2) While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks or purposeless inflammatory posts. Our decision is final in these matters.
3) Post spamming is not allowed. (Quality, please.) Advertising, spamming and trolling is not allowed. This includes using the forum email and Private message system to spam other members.
4) We reserve the right to remove offensive posts without notice.
5) Lastly, breaking our rules will result in a ban and deletion of all posts
They make the rules, if they’re not followed, buh-bye. I don’t think they said it was a forum for non-IBO’s to go in and rip people for being an IBO. Hence, Buh-bye Tex and his pseudoname
August 23rd, 2007 at 12:39 am
It is all nuts to me.
Pride, ego and contol = failure.
Pricing has always been and issue in the field.
perception is a bigger issue.
Chuck
August 23rd, 2007 at 12:59 am
Rex, did you say that you were a TEAM IBO?
August 23rd, 2007 at 1:23 am
You obviously don’t know a thing about TEAM and what they stand for! Sorry for you!
August 23rd, 2007 at 2:23 am
Having been the business over 30 years, I have seen many ups and downs and I am sure we will survive again. The problem with our price structure is the fault of both the corporation and the leadership in the field. According to Rich DeVos in the earlier days the Directs now called Platimuns were the keys to the business. However the corporation changed that approach and make everything special for the Diamonds. Several years later many, many bonus additions were made to the top levels with huge million dollar bounses being given out instead of keeping the prices down. The corporation use to provide training material, conventions, ext. for all the distributors but then stopped that so the only way for distributors support they needed was through Diamond organizations. Praise for the Nutrilite quality and the energy drinks. Let us not give up on the business but learn and admit the mistakes that were made. This still is the best thing going!!
August 23rd, 2007 at 5:17 am
The Darkest hours are just before the dawn..
If only quixtar was a job instead of an opportunity, everyone would have shut up and gone back to work..
when the freedom is given, it is liberally taken and assumed that we do not need to comply anything..
nor does Quixtar or amway need a bad name if they had decided to just retail their products in the shops and marts like coke or soap detergents. The very reason so many things are being spoken (good & Bad)is because they decided to touch peoples life inside their heart instead of staying on the shelfs of marts.
Way to Go Quixtar!!
Never before!! Never After!!
I guess some guys never learn the power of submission..
August 23rd, 2007 at 5:41 am
Proof by Example?
Tex writes: “There are plenty of examples of successful retailing”.
If the 3% of sales are to custumers figure is correct, then 3% of $1.1 billion is $30,000,000 in sales to customers. The percent of that $30,000,000 that is sold to customers at wholesale vs retail price is not known to us. (Quixtar gives the option of setting customers up to buy at wholesale.)If these numbers were known, they would probably yield several thousand IBOs who sell at retail. I don’t know what the figure is but lets PRETEND that there are 200,000 IBOs doing the 1.1 billion in annual sales, then extrapolating data it could be said that:
194,000 IBOs rely on self-consumption
6,000 IBOs are engaged in retail sales to customers. (6,000 would certainly support Tex’s statement that there are plenty of examples.)However, that would mean that 194,000 IBO’s are out of compliance with Quixtar’s rules and could face possible termination.
If we knew that 50% were selling to customers at retail and 50% were selling at wholesale.
That means that 3000 IBO’s are selling at retail.
Let’s PRETEND that these 3000 are selling half of the 30,000,000 million that is being sold to customers. That means they are:
1. averaging $5,000 in sales a year;
at the XS profit margins,
2. they are making $650.00 a year in profits before business expenses. That’s $54.00 a month,if you’re spending 10 hours per month, that is $5.42 per hour before gas, promotional materials, computer expenses, etc. That should excite a lot people to join the business
THESE ARE NOT ACTUAL FIGURES - These are used to demonstrate data in context giving a clearer picture. I’m not sure that we would ever be given access to the actual data.
Back to my point: anything can be proved by examples alone - therefore examples don’t prove much.
I commend Tex for his passion and and loyalty, however, he does not prove anything by citing examples alone.
Anyways, I agree with another post that Bridgett made. These blogs are a wasting my time. My Quixtar business has been killed by Amway and the negative media. My downline are now dropping out of working the business. I’m going to go do something positive and useful with my time.
August 23rd, 2007 at 5:42 am
Moderator - I just realized how long the previous blog was. Don’t post it if the length concerns you. It doesnt matter at this point.
August 23rd, 2007 at 9:25 am
I read that the TEAM already got one victory in Wayne County, MI today! Go TEAM!
I do have a question, if Quixtar fires me, do I still have to wait 6 months to do something else?
I don’t know what else is out there, but I am not spending another dime on Quixtar products so I can help pay for the slander that is being done to me and the thousands of other IBOs on TEAM. We have been told by our leadership that it is “business as usual”. Not for this girl.
August 23rd, 2007 at 9:50 am
I have not read what you posted on Team blogs. It seems you think noone has ever been prevented from posting on a blog? Do you also think making sweeping allegations means “banning anyone who disagrees”? The conclusion would mean there are no disagreeing opinions on any TEAM blogs. Your argument implies that anyone who does not agree will be banned. Yet, according to your statments there are only about 3 of you. Either there are very few who actually disagree with the Team position, or your accusations are false.
August 23rd, 2007 at 9:56 am
Tex and ibofightback, would you guys go outside or read a book or something, and stop your baseless pandering. It’s annoying to those of us (practically the rest of us) trying to engage in rational dialogue.
Thank you.
August 23rd, 2007 at 10:20 am
the truth is quixtar is removing anything on their blog. that is not positive to their side of this
August 23rd, 2007 at 10:55 am
Hello All IBO’s With Team,
We are sorry about your Team Leaders and there stance. I do know this based on facts and numbers. While your system might be down for now other LOA’s have been having record years. This things is growing and working propperly. Maybe go look outside of what Orrin has been teaching and see growth that has been happening propperly. Great Business, Stop letting Orrin and his agenda shed more bad on a good thing and other crosslines that have been doing things correctly. I encourage Team IBO’s to visit other IBO’s meetings. Find out what is different. This mess is not just shedding bad light on Orrin Team but all other IBO’s and groups that are not even remotely involved. We are all excited about the new Plan that was released. Fact is many of Team do not even know it exist and how the new products and dollars work. Maybe you want to find it out before you throw stones. Things are rocking. Just a different Perspective.
August 23rd, 2007 at 11:49 am
According to reports, Amway/Quixtar lawyers stated that IBOs are “property” of the corporation.
Is this the new position of Amway/Quixtar?
August 23rd, 2007 at 11:52 am
#4
I have been an IBO for 5 years and have 26 active clients/customers who love the items they buy…and yes they pay retail. I promote the brands as a premium choice and an upgrade to what they can find elsewhere.
“WE DO NOT COMPETE WITH WALMART!” If you think we fit in the “low price guarantee” category you will fail. Work with customers who like what you have to offer and you will have great success, not everyone is your customer.
When I see “TEAM” members say that retailing is impossible I laugh. They have built their entire model on “personal use and duplicate” and now that retail is coming back as a foundational focus they are stuck, and the only way out is cry. In my opinion they built their business on sand(no retail) and now it is crumbling.
August 23rd, 2007 at 11:59 am
To Kevin #15
Tex and Ibofightback, though I don’t agree with all they have to say….they are some of the only ones on here that at least call a spade a spade. They don’t stand up and Worship your God Woodward….they are just trying to make an income. They point out the perils on both sides of the issue.
You on the other hand believe that Woodward can do no wrong, HA….he got you involved in an illegal pyramid scheme, didn’t he….and guess what…according to his law suit he knew about it was illegal years ago and still continued to break the law as he saw it and get thousands of people involved. He sure didn’t mind selling those tools for someone to build an illegal business, did he?
Wow, what a pargon of integrity you now worship…get your head out of the sand. And again I say, wake up and smell the coffee brewing in your own kitchen…go to starbucks for a fresh cup and a new perspective…a balanced one.
Neither the Corp., or Team is virtuous…they all have their own agendas…it is up to us to really examine the FACTS and not ignore that which we just don’t want to hear. Opps, I’m sorry, you have been taught to never listen to negativity. Sorry, ignore what I just said, go back to your kitchen and drink your koolaid flavored coffee.
ps. the only way we ever learn how to correct and make our businesses (any business, anywhere) successful is to examine the negative aspects in great detail, but then you can’t do that can you?
August 23rd, 2007 at 3:45 pm
In response to #16
the truth — Your comment was published, wasn’t it? Real good argument there.
If you’re talking specifically about a Quixtar blog on the Opportunity Zone, please specify the corporate blog that censors negative comments. Betcha can’t.
Apparently, “the truth” couldn’t be further from it.
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:10 pm
What makes this a big thing, at least in my eyes, is that Don, Randy & Billy are involved. These guys have been in for years. Don & Randy had a huge organization at one time with over 80 seminars per month in the US. Orrin & Chris had to tweak Dexter, Don & Randy’s system for the 21st century. Orrin learned about depth from Randy.
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:27 pm
# 19 I don’t think you read the lawsuit in a nuetral sense. He tried, as well as many others, to get the prices lowered so the operations of an illegal pryamid weren’t present in a pricing sense. I agree that it may have not been the best idea to build an “illegal” business. I could only hope that he planned on having understanding and compromise with Quixtar. This was the final push. They were changing things making it hard for TEAM to operate and the fact that they weren’t attempting to listen to their concerns, this was the only way they could get away from Quixtar. With their new policies making you wait for 6 months before being active in anything really limited the mobility of IBOs to just leave. I hope at the end of all this Quixtar will be around, and TEAM will break off and be a competitor. Nothing wrong with healthy competition between rival companies. It’ll improve everything for everyone.
Worship is a strong word. I’d suggest calming down and realizing that many people that talk highly of Orin or Chris have been touched in their life. It may not be known to you what can happen but many people in TEAM or not have changed their life for the better.
The negative aspects is what TEAM has found. Pricing and policies. That’s the big negative with Quixtar. You may not feel those are negative but as an IBO, I feel that pricing is an issue and that the policies do not make me feel very good about the opportunity of have different ways of being terminated and not being able to change companies at my own free will as an IBO. That is why i will support TEAM. Orin and Chris haven’t done anything in my life but they have their head and heart in the right place to go after the corporation that supposedly “owns” to change that aspect and to make it more viable in terms of prices and sales.
Keep your mind open. I understand the impact of this lawsuit on the rest of the IBOs. What suprised me, because i haven’t been with Quixtar very long, is how Alticor came out very unprofessional instantly down talking everything about TEAM. That’s not something I want to be a apart of anymore but, i still want my chance to have my own business through MLM. I’m curious what TEAM has planned.
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Wow, you are negative. But I did take the time to read your post- and have looked at a lot of the facts.
You wonder why people are standing up for Orrin Woodward? Because he is a great leader. Yes, he isn’t perfect, but he has been consistent in his integrity and is trying to do what is best for the IBO’s on TEAM. What group are you in?
Do you slam your leaders or edify them? And when it comes to correcting business, that is what Orrin and the rest of TEAM are trying to do. Quixtar just doesn’t want to let us go- except when it comes to the title of their blog posts I guess.
This hurts all IBO’s, not just TEAM. Too bad Quixtar couldn’t just let us go peacefully.
August 23rd, 2007 at 5:13 pm
Referring to the TEAM blog site…
6. rpr7768 Says:
“They (Quixtar) make the rules, if they’re not followed, buh-bye.”
I find it very ironic that is exactly what Quixtar said to the TEAM Leadership.
P.S. Pretty sure Tex and IBOFightBack are IBOs.
They just like to keep things in check.
August 23rd, 2007 at 5:49 pm
Hello to Team IBO’s not the Leadership,
I and many others feel for you so much. We love this business. I love my upline and what they have done for me. After reading you Team IBO thoughts you guys are not differnt that we are for you love of your Team. We wish you the best in all that happens. We are Praying that it all works out for you. Many, Many, Gosh Thousands of you who were just as happy as I am today building my IBO business. I hope you can respect that as well. As many of us respect your standing with you upline that was created because of a few. I too find tis all very hard to believe but I to would follow Larry Winters and Joe Markiewicz with our LTD TEAM!
August 23rd, 2007 at 6:56 pm
Good afternoon,
I have not wanted to read the blog everyday–sort of a downer so if I am redundant with others’ comment–please extend grace.
I jove options so I enjoy the chance to shop at Norstroms or Walmart. However, despite the alure of the atmosphere,ease and quality At Nordstroms I usually end up at Walmart. I believe most the people that I meet each day do the same. In fact I believe that most people looking at Quixtar tend to be Walmart level buyers as well. That is one reason why I wish the IBO price for goods at Quixtar were lower. I recruited 5 people already but nobody spends.. The concept is great but the reality is the prices are too high. When I read “What’s new at Quixtar” and heard the ‘good news’ that prices would stay the same I sighed–they missed the point. The prices needed to go lower. I kept my appointmebt this Monday to present the plan but I won’t be doing anymore until I see what comes down the line.
Thanks
cls
August 23rd, 2007 at 7:23 pm
I think a lot of IBO’s need to read Frank Bettger’s Book ” How I Raised Myself From Failure to Success in Selling” a few more times. Become a good salesman folks. Our exclusive line of products are fantastic value and quality. I remember what Rich Devos always said- “Get yourself 10 good customers first” then start to grow your business!!!Personally my wife and I are going back into retailing heavily. Tell them your in Quixtar/Amway. You don’t have to show them the plan….There are literally thousands, maybe millions of people who loved the Amway Products and don’t know where to find anyone who has them.
As far as prices goes, it is true that there are a lot of products in our books we can’t compete with the competition, but check things out. I did a quick price comparison today at SOBEY’S. Their CASHMERE, “ULTRA”, 3-PLY toilet paper 240 sheets per roll were $7.49 for 8 Pack (that’s 93.6 cents each). Our MEADOWBROOK GOLD, 3-PLY 264 sheets per roll ( 24 more sheets X 48 rolls=1152 sheets divided by 264= just over 4 more rolls). So at full retail in the new catalogue $46.99 (divided by 52 rolls). This works out to just over 90 cents a roll. Paper towels -same quality and sheets - Two Pack for $4.50. Our MEADOWBROOK works out at Two Rolls for $4.20 our cost (considering 2 more sheets per roll). I personally can’t wait to see the new lower exclusive brand prices come September..
August 23rd, 2007 at 9:13 pm
rpr7768 - you say “look at where you’re getting your information” - I did, I looked in a mirror. I was banned, I’m reporting on my own experience. The site I linked to was my site, no corporate site.
August 23rd, 2007 at 11:20 pm
rpr #6,
I am an IBO. Does this quote, “They make the rules, if they’re not followed, buh-bye.” sound familiar? It is a lot like the message from Quixtar to TEAM.
Wendy D #13,
I wouldn’t consider a TRO a “victory”. It is more of a formality. Quixtar can’t fire you, but they can terminate you. I suggest you read the rules regarding getting involved in another MLM, you may learn a few things. Report back and tell us what you found.
Kevin #15,
Get lost. What do you mean by “pandering”? I state the facts as I know them. I have criticized both the tool profiteers and A/Q. What’s your problem?
the truth #16,
You haven’t been paying attention, have you?
MichMan #18,
Ever hear of a figure of speech?
MarDJay #19,
Thanks, but I think it is much darker where Kevin has stuck his head than the sand.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:22 am
rpr7768, both Tex and IBOFightBack are IBOs… as I understand it, Tex is actually in the TEAM organization and has observed it from the inside. IBOFightback has a successful international business. If you had been following these blogs for the past few months, you’d know that this is common knowledge.
August 24th, 2007 at 4:03 am
PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF QUIXTAR PAID 100% OF PRODUCT VALUE????
AND QUIXTAR SAID THE IBO’S(HES EMPLOYE’S)PAID 100% OF PRODUCT VALUE AND 70% BACK TO US????
WE MUST TO BE PAID LESS FOR PRODUCTS THAN THE OUTSIDERS …………..
QUIX OR AY WAY….DEAL ((((((WIN-WIN)))))))
August 24th, 2007 at 4:05 am
(((((((((((((GOD BLESS ORRIN,CHRISS,MARKS,LANCE,WILSON,HAUGEN…MY RESPECT FOR YOU GUYS)))))))))))
August 24th, 2007 at 4:07 am
MARDJAY,,,YOU DONT TRY TO MAKE MONEY,,,,QUIXTAR DO AND EVERYONE HERE,,GO BACK AND READ SOME BOOK FOR ROBERT KIYOSAKI,,,AND SELL HERBALIFE,,,
August 24th, 2007 at 4:13 am
#3 IBOFB,
I have to tell you that I am extremely impressed with your demeanor, your knowledge of this business, and this industry, the work ethic to keep your site up-to-date and an excellent resource, and your conversational, easy-to-read, quite humorous as times, and always insightful writing.
I’ve learned a lot from you, especially when you’ve set me straight a couple of times.
August 24th, 2007 at 4:17 am
#18 MichMan
IBOships (the businesses), not IBOs (the people) are the property of Quixtar.
Just like if you owned a McDonald’s, the McDonald’s Corp REALLY owns it.
August 24th, 2007 at 11:53 am
Bridgett #36,
I generally agree with ibofb on many issues as well. But he has made some significant mistakes and doesn’t understand how important the tool profits are to the problems that are occurring.
August 24th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
To Tex,
I was going to say butt, but I rewrote it thinking it might to harsh and not get published….Though I have read worse on here of late.
Keep trying to open those closed minds. One day something we say will trigger a thought and they will begin to put the puzzle together. Just maybe……
August 24th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Tex,
There are very few IBO’s that can look at the situation and see the truth of it all. You are one of the few that keeps an open mind.
I treat many patients invovled in cults, and they all have the same MO. Though I don’t believe that MLM is a worth the effort that those of you that put so much work in it to make it profitable…I don’t believe that the business itself is inherently wrong if done correctly (selling products, not self comsumption)
…but the AMO systems prey on people and use mind control techniques that anyone can figure out if they just do a little research. I find that NO ONE in groups like these AMO’s can ever see it until they are out. When they are out they will see it so clearly and when they do they feel extremely violated.
When I see the damage these groups do to ones emotional well being it makes me want to scream.
August 24th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Mex,
I don’t need to make money off of preying on my friends and family…but I end up treating all those IBO’s that lose their shirts and are then shunned by their fellow IBO’s they thought were their family. Yes, when they ran out of money and stopped buying tools, stopped going to seminars….no one wanted to help or even talk to them anymore…
…one day you will be there if you run out of money too.
As for my JOB, that I was told was “Just Over Broke”, by me good friend (in TEAM) who eventually excluded me from her life for years until she finally figured out that I did have a point, about those loyal friends she thought was her new family and they stopped treating her like the same when she ran out of money and had to get a JOB….
….well, I do just fine, I have all I need and I grow everyday as person, as a leader in my field, in knowledge and love for my fellow human beings.
August 25th, 2007 at 9:30 am
MarDJay # 39/40,
Thanks for the compliments, but the issue is so simple it is amazing to me more IBO’s aren’t jumping on the bandwagon.
IBO’s: Most money for Emeralds and above come from YOUR tool purchases, yet the constant message is they succeeded via Amway/Quixtar. You can’t live this big of a lie in the internet world.
STOP THE INSANITY!
August 30th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
tex42
its great to make things known like diamonds make as much or more in their tools systems as Quixtar income….
SO????
I and millions of others are going to spend money on personal development no matter what business we are in… most of us would rather give our money to people who will give us the most value at low price and with information that is most applicable to our industry.
August 30th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
we tell people at every meeting that their is income from Amway and out team/system.
we tell people the more successful they become in Amway, the more valuable they become with the support system/team, the more money they can make with the support team/system.
TEX - i like a lot of your posts.
what is your view on tools? Is it thats its just plain wrong for big pins to make more money on tools/speakingFees… than their Amway Income? or do you think it is just wrong to BE SILENT about it?
August 31st, 2007 at 10:19 am
jthompson #43,
I agree, all I am asking for is honesty. Have you ever been to a major function, where all of the “bling” is being shown off? The houses, the cars, the boats, the jets, etc. All of the talk is about making money at Quixtar, not a peep about the tool profit, which by many reliable accounts, is several times more than the Quixtar income. Just tell the IBO’s the truth where the profit comes from.
The upline claims us as their “teammates” and “business partners”, then doesn’t want to talk about where most of their profit comes from?
I think it is clear I don’t care how much they make from tools, just don’t be SILENT about it. Having said that, I also believe a lot of the current IBO’s would feel betrayed and the upline would take a major hit and have to recover from telling the truth. Of course, Quixtar would also suffer, which is why they haven’t taken action, either.
I have always said when Quixtar/upline sees the pain of keeping the status quo greater than making the changes, they will do something. My task is to get them there as soon as possible, because millions of Distributors/IBO’s have been taken for hundreds of millions/perhaps billions of dollars for multiple decades.
I was watching how much less trouble Michael Vick would have been in if he just stepped forward early during the dog fight investigation. This issue has been going on for decades.
August 31st, 2007 at 11:24 pm
45/tex,
At my functions they say “Quixtar Money” - like there will be a new Ruby on stage for a moment “How much money do you make?” - they will say “$6k last month, Quixtar Money!”
like my comment on August 31, 2007 at 06:55 PM at the IBOAIblog on August15 forum -
1. Does Quixtar allow them to disclose the money from tools? If not, pick on Quixtar, not the Diamond ibos…
2. Its not of our business. Until an ibo goes platinum (in most systems), they are a customer, not a participant in the tool business.
3. ex: at my consulting company i have worked for - it is similar business format - MFG and resellers/ibos. My company is a reseller. We sell software to clients. Then we sell consulting/training to help the client learn to USE the software to effectively manage their business. We make 2x the money on training/consulting than we do selling the software. We do NOT share our profit margin and income with our clients. It is NOT of their business.
However, if one of our clients becomes an expert on the software, and we decide to hire them (happens often), THEN we share how the compensation plan works…. then it becomes THEIR business.
At every open meeting i have EVER been to. We tell people that at diamond, you become very valuable to the training system Tex. We say you can make 6 figures minimum for doing some seminars…..
It is 100% honest (at least the systems i have seen)
i explain more clearly on my comment at iboaiblog on aug15
September 1st, 2007 at 3:35 pm
I responded on the IBOAI forum.