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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
August 15th, 2007 @ 11:05 pm ET…
Caveat emptor
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
Reporter friends,
You may find yourselves on the receiving end of a phone call from a smooth-talking PR guy or slick-talking class-action lawyer, trying to peddle you a story about a guy named Orrin Woodward and his fight with our company.
Please be advised:
They may neglect to fill you in on the entire legal landscape in addition to their lawsuit. (They’re busy people; it happens.) You might, for instance, ask them to fill you in on how Mr. Woodward and his associates have been:
- terminated by the company;
- suspended from the board of their trade association;
- been subjected to a temporary restraining order preventing them from looting our business;
- been subjected to a second temporary restraining order obtained by their trade association lest they abuse their fiduciary and business confidentiality responsibilities to that group; and,
- today, been ordered to show cause why they are not already in contempt of the first restraining order.
And that’s just in six days.
You should make sure that every person they claim is a plaintiff in their suit actually is a plaintiff in their suit. We already know that one of the people they told a reporter yesterday was suing us… isn’t. Oopsy.
You should be aware that when they tell you the plaintiffs account for 40 percent of our company’s U.S. business – well, they are making an exaggerated claim, which is one of the reasons we terminated them in the first place. The number might reach 15 percent — but that’s only if every single business owner they ever claimed affiliation with follows them out the door. Which we already know they won’t.
In short: should your phone ring with that sales pitch from Shughart Thomson & Kilroy or Ashton Partners, please know the folks at the other end of the phone represent people who are not so good with the rules (more on that later, but start here); not so good with court orders; and not so good with the facts.
Whatever they tell you about us, we’ll be happy to discuss. And, most likely, unscrew.
Whatever they tell you about anything else… well, word to the wise: if they tell you the sky is blue, you might want to look out the window.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
August 15th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
I have read most of the commends made by blogers to the official statement by Alticor
in “Just Go TEAM”. I hoped that the reactions would have left an impact in the way Alticor addresses issues from now on.
I was quite mistaken! It got even worth. Your statement shows not only your anger about what is happening it also shows that anger get is your way to communicate wisely. That’s not how a biilion dollar company reaches out to develop trust.
Sorry!
August 15th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
Hmmm. More classy writing on an official corporate blog. Maybe all those Team IBOs Alticor is trying to hold on to need another negative email from this writer. That ought to show them.
Yeah, tell the reporters that they have no journalistic sense and remind them they should check their facts. (They didn’t know they should do that - thanks Alticor)
Alticor: the ultimate standard in journalism?
Reporter friends: Feel free to send a thank you card to Alticor for the free tips about your profession.
August 15th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
As it says in Proverbs 18:17, “The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.” (ESV) I hope that folks will remember this, especially those tempted to accept assertions in the Team Complaint at face value. The Team timeline, Complaint, and other claims reply on readers’ ignorance of the facts and history of the Alticor companies, the IBOAI, and much more. Keep watching and withhold final judgement…
August 15th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
“Whatever they tell you about us, we’ll be happy to discuss. And, most likely, unscrew.”
I’ve read the Harteis article - it does NOT say he exonerates y’all - just that he is not willing to participate in the suit.
Does this mean you’ll add your own “spin”? You’re still coming off like a middle school bully - it’s not very becoming.
Guys - where’s Rich when you REALLY need him? Inmates now running asylum - apparently.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:03 am
“The number might reach 15 percent — but that’s only if every single business owner they ever claimed affiliation with follows them out the door. Which we already know they won’t.”
WHICH WE ALREADY KNOW THEY WON’T. PLEASE DON’T BE SO ARROGANT. I AM NOT AWARE OF THE EXACT NUMBER OF IBO’S, HOWEVER, THEY HAVE MY VOTE. I PREFER TO HAVE BOTH PARTIES COME TO AND “ADULT” CONCLUSION.
I BELIEVE THIS CAN HAPPEN. BUT IS SURELY WILL NOT HAPPEN WITH NEGATIVE SLANDER ON THE OFFICIAL NEW BLOG OF A BIG COMPANY.
OOPSY? WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THAT?
August 16th, 2007 at 12:04 am
Just Go, Jody!!
August 16th, 2007 at 12:13 am
“REPORTER FRIENDS”
YOU GUYS MUST BE SHAKIN IN YOUR BOOTS. YOU KNOW EVERY OTHER ORGANIZATION OUT THERE IS THINKING THAT THIS CAN HAPPEN TO THEM.
TO LOSE THEIR ORGANIZATION BECAUSE THEY WANT TO IMPROVE AN AREA OF THE BUSINESS. IF YOU ARE WILLING TO BREAK TIES WITH PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN IN YOUR CORNER FOR 20 YEARS PLUS OVER A DISAGREEMENT. I WOULD BE FEELING VERY UNCOMFORTABLE RIGHT NOW.
TAKE THE HIGH ROAD PLEASE.
WILL THE REAL IBOAI STAND UP. PLEASE STAND UP.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:30 am
Who the heck is writing this blog and what is with the unprofessional smarmy style?
Leave this for a board post not an official company post.
Just delete the entire thing and re-write it.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:44 am
SUCCESS 101
I have to earn my prospect’s TRUST every night when I Show The Plan if I expect them to join ME in business. And I have to work to keep it.
Obviously the Van Andel and DeVos families aren’t concerned about earning and keeping my TRUST anymore.
Quixtar had my trust until I learned that you didn’t even consult the IBOAI board before announcing the “transformation” back to AMWAY. This is a BIG mistake! This, along with your “shoot first and the rest will fall in line” strategy of discipline of your IBOs, and my feeling is you “could care less” how this will affect my future success.
I feel like an “employee” instead of a “partner” and just like many “employees” I DON”T TRUST YOU (the company) ANYMORE!
I WOULDN’T TRUST ANYTHING YOU SAY AT THIS POINT AS BEING THE TRUTH!
August 16th, 2007 at 1:02 am
In response to #8 Glam:
I think the teenage son/daughter of an authorized Alticor employee got hold of their mom or dad’s password and decided to have some fun.
August 16th, 2007 at 1:08 am
HOW CAN I SAY THIS GENTLY???? YOU GUYS SUCK!! HIRE A NEW WRITER!!!! YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE YOURSELVES AND TEAM MIXED UP. ALTICOR/QUIXTAR ARE THE CROOKED ONES!!!
August 16th, 2007 at 1:13 am
[…] media blog has just posted a whopper. This article is condescending to the journalists that they are writing to by opening the entry […]
August 16th, 2007 at 1:28 am
http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24
Finally found a truthful article. This is a MUST READ!!!! For anybody who was confused on which way they should go, this last blog post by Quixtar/Amway should help them decide. We would never want to do business, let alone promote a business with this kind of attitude. Sounds more like a rat backed into a corner trying to fight its way out instead of a multi-billion dollar corporation. Might of not been sure about TEAM since newly affiliated via Legacy but now definitely VERY PROUD to be a part of TRUE INTEGRITY!!!! Also check out www.businesswire.com and type in Quixtar. Several interesting articles and the one by the company still shows their temper by putting certain words in caps. They still don’t get it do they. Everytime they speak they lose more IBO’s. Someone is running scared.
The Press is good at doing their job. Trying to tell them how to do it? Give us a break!!
August 16th, 2007 at 1:28 am
Setting The Record Straight-http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24
OK Quixtar/IBOAI… enough of the run around, factual spinning and general planned distraction away from the issues! It is extremely interesting, despite the 1000s of official and unofficial releases you’ve authored, solicited and even paid for, that you have yet to answer, address or even acknowledge the serious allegations set forth in the class action lawsuit filed by the oh-so-terrible Mighty 15.
Could it be that there is dangerous truth there?! All you have done is shoot the messengers with personal attacks which according to Logic 101 says that you are afraid to confront the actual issues. It’s your only option since… YOU CANNOT SHOOT THE MESSAGE! Because it is true!
LOGIC 101- An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: “argument to the person”, “argument against the man”) consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or personally attacking an argument’s proponent in an attempt to discredit that argument. The personal attack is a debate tactic or means of avoiding discussion of the relevance or truthfulness the person’s statement. This line of “reasoning” is fallacious because the attack is directed at the person making the claim and not the claim itself. The truth value of a claim is independent of the person making the claim.
Don’t give us some runaround about legal privilege or confidentiality or whatever weak excuses Quixtar is so good at creating… give us the facts to support why the massive allegations against you are not true. Here is your chance.
But you won’t find it. There is no evidence to defeat the class action claims. So, we’ll just have to expect that Quixtar will now mount a smear campaign against Ron Simmons personally because he is Setting The Record Straight with the truth that he himself was involved in directly. Go ahead Quixtar, try to discredit a man with years of successful experience as a multi-million dollar financial consultant and years of experience in Quixtar and years of experience in dealing with YOU. Be careful, unless the actual people who were present at that meeting speak- they have no standing! Oh, wait… I guess that doesn’t matter since we’re not dealing with actual truth. We’re dealing with Quixtar truth- true is whatever you pay for it to be.
August 16th, 2007 at 1:29 am
Questions guys:
“The number might reach 15 percent — but that’s only if every single business owner they ever claimed affiliation with follows them out the door. Which we already know they won’t”.
1. What makes you think that they will not pack up and leave? Why should they be affiliated with this kind of business manners?
2. If TEAM affilaited organizations only represent 15% of Quixtars volume - why getting so negative and angry about it? Let them go and your world is repaired.
August 16th, 2007 at 1:29 am
I’m wondering if they hired a soap opera writer to post these blog entries. Talk about soap opera drama! Enough already!
We get the point that someone here is very upset at TEAM/Orrin & Co, but I thought this was supposed to be a professional business blog. The facts (as viewed by this side) can be presented in a more professional and less biting tone.
Who’s wrong and right here, I can’t honestly tell, I keep hearing conflicting things from both sides. Maybe some of each are right. I must say I am more impressed with the manner that TEAM has been communicating with the people this effects over the communications I’m seeing presented under the umbrella of the Quixtar/Alticor corporation.
Regardless of any potential wrong doing on TEAM’s part that could harm the business image, please stop and think about what and how something is written here before it gets posted. Sounding like a catfight between Nicole Ritchie and Paris Hilton doesn’t suit the image Quixtar I think would wish to maintain through all of this.
August 16th, 2007 at 1:35 am
I cannot believe you are serious! Who is doing the calling? Quixtar- I think that is what you meant to say because that I know for sure! How can you point a finger at Orrin Woodward when that is EXACTLY your behavior! Did someone get confused?!
August 16th, 2007 at 1:56 am
The following commetn is the best I have seen it stated yet. It would be nice to really get past this horrible dialogue even though it’s not even been a week. Can you believe that?
This entire situation is just sad… very, very sad.
Please Mr. DeVos and Mr. Van Andel, end it now- you are the only ones with the power to do so. Too many people are watching our example for this to be our legacy. Make the call. You have Randy’s, Billy’s and Orrin’s direct line. Let us all do something so unexpected in today’s times… let us ALL be bigger men than this… coming back together… resolving to go each our separate ways… beginning to move forward, each as best as we can, peacefully wishing each other whatever success we are willing to strive for in the service of others.
August 16th, 2007 at 2:16 am
http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24
This link will take you to the facts.
Wow, Amway, I am really disappointed.
August 16th, 2007 at 2:23 am
Wow, that was impressive. Amway needs to do some re calculating. I believe most of Team will be gone….ten’s of thousands of IBOs……gone.
I believe the same amount will leave other groups will leave from 1) being forced into Amway 2) losing the IBOIA representation 3) being emboldened by others standing up to fight 4) the shock of how the corporation is responding.
Slightly off topic…which organization (working under the Amway name) will ba able to make up for all the lost volume + the percentage in growth TEAM was carrying that was covering the other group’s die back? Think about it, while all your business was fading, TEAM made up the difference. That’s why sales have appeared flat. You were going backward, TEAM was growing.
Amway America won’t even do $400,000 this fiscal year.
August 16th, 2007 at 2:26 am
I think an above blogger got it right: I also think it’s Jody V. It sounds just like his smart-aleck tapes. On the other hand, there are times when people can be civil to each other during a disagreement; then there are other times it’s ok to say, “Why don’t you go (you finish it.)”
August 16th, 2007 at 2:40 am
If TEAM is dissolved after all this legal Mumbo jumbo, how is Quixtar going to assist me in growing my IBO-ship? In other word, where will the support and meetings and sponsoring tips come from?
August 16th, 2007 at 2:43 am
I can’t stomach you anymore. Your corporation that has had over 15 years of mine and many, many others loyalty and respect have now become just another company that truly cares nothing for their people. I was in the meeting in L.A. with Doug, Steve, and Jim for Emeralds and above. I can tell you that that was the day that Alticor/Amway/Quixtar lost any and all respect from me. We know the whole story !!!! You may think you can fool everyone with your PR spin and your fancy lawyer moves but when the dust settles and all the chips fall, boys you will be holding the short end of the stick. Your dirty back door under the cover of darkness antics are truly going to cost you. Your lack of respect for us the partners who truly made your company and your familys wealthy showed your true colors. I am ashamed to be associated with a company/ family’s that would treat people the way that you have and continue to with your corporations slanderous remarks. You can bet that 5,10,20 years down the road you will look back on this and point to this time in your companys history as the biggest mistake you had ever made. This is assuming your still in business. I truly hope you see the error of your ways and do the right thing. May God have His hand on you.
August 16th, 2007 at 2:50 am
Show some class! Your writing style is very unprofessional - “trying to peddle you a story about a guy named Orrin Woodward and his fight with our company.” I listened to Orrin Woodward speak (on a Team CD) and I was lifted out of myself by the way he communictes his vision, truly amazing - I don’t recall hearing another person speak quite like Orrin Woodward. I recall in that same CD Orrin Woodward saying people thought he reached his level of success because of luck and he said “what they don’t realize that I was out month, after month, after month, after month, after month showing the plan (those words stuck to me like glue)!” The person posting these blogs appears to be completely out of touch with what people like Orrin Woodward had to endure to grow this business. If you had some idea how difficult it is to show 25 plans per month, then you might be a little more respectful.
August 16th, 2007 at 6:10 am
Alticor…you come across as arrogant and condescending in this article. This style would be something I expect from Don Imus but not from an oganization of professional sales people. This this way you want us to treat prospects who disagree with us.
The way you have handled yourself in the postings of “Team just go” and this article shows your inability to relate to the public. No surprising you made the decision for a name change to Amway. The way way you come across at this site undermines any trust that you understand how to communicate with the public…hence the name change to Amway.
I think that Amway must stand for “Always My Way.”
If you are going to terminate someone…you should terminate your writers. They are only making things worse.
I’d like to know where the 15%/40% figures come from; what do they include. Team is 15%, or Team + Legacy + 5K is 15%? 15% of North American, 15% of world. If it is only 15%…why not let them go?
August 16th, 2007 at 7:16 am
I thought the first article was bad and filled with slinging mud–it has now been topped. Alticor, you now proven that you are scared and you really don’t care about the IBOs that worked hard for so many years to make you billions.
August 16th, 2007 at 7:20 am
What Alticor/Quixtar is saying is not lining up. I think they a in trouble.
http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24
August 16th, 2007 at 7:58 am
Gee, let’s see folks. Alticor should just back and let a PR firm go around slinging terms like “illegal pyramid scheme” and assert that none of the products can be sold at retail?
I think not. Both assertions are bald-faced lies being perpetrated by an organization that’s future relies, to a large extent, on convincing people that they’re true. Yet the future of Alticor most certainly does not depend on people believing TEAM is the way to go.
So who should we believe? Who is really the desperate party? I’ll continue to follow my upline’s lead and leave my trust where it belongs, with the DeVos and VanAndel families.
August 16th, 2007 at 8:04 am
Wow! For a multi-billion dollar company, that’s only losing ~15% of their bussiness, really isn’t acting like it. I hope all IBO are really seeing how this is playing out. I beleive that Alticor is going to lose this suit and a huge chunk of IBOs are going to leave, due to the name change.
I think it is silly that you change the name of Quixar back to Amway, and I had to find out on a 3rd party site, not proud enough to post on your own site?
Alticor continues to sink and continues to justify my why Alticor isn’t going to cut it in the next couple of years. RIP 2009
August 16th, 2007 at 8:18 am
“People of Integrity expect to be believed. When they’re not, they let time prove them right.”
Only time will tell, as none of us have all the facts yet. Alticor’s lack of professionalism says a lot. So does this article:
http://www.shauncarter.com/2007/08/billion-dollar-company-gives-their-two-cents/
August 16th, 2007 at 8:24 am
A sad day in Alticor’s history.
A company of integrity…it was. My heart sinks when I read the actions and comments of this company regarding the Team dispute.
My organization has quit…I am considering it aswell.
August 16th, 2007 at 9:16 am
Haven’t any of these people ever read a blog before? It’s a different style of writing, so get over the “delivery” and look at the message!
If you want to read legalese, read official press releases. Bottom line: Training systems have become legal liabilities for Alticor. I keep reading about how IBOs are being punished for cleaning up their systems, but there are some pretty obvious rules laid out by the FCC and you can’t make a profit just by signing someone up. You can sell a product, but anything that remotely resembles a “finders fee” is patently illegal. To me, it sounds like some IBOs aren’t cleaning up their systems, they are trying to preserve the cash flow from these cash cows. Train us, keep it reasonable, and help us to sell products. That’s the business I’m in.
By the way, I can’t believe the TEAM IBOs said it’s impossible to sell our products…I’ve been selling them for 16 years…I had several new customers referred to me this weekend because of the quality of our products.
Thank goodness Quixtar is cleaning house!
August 16th, 2007 at 9:21 am
Interesting title…
Caveat emptor is Latin for “Let the buyer beware”.
However,Caveat venditor is Latin for “let the seller beware”.
It is a counter to caveat emptor, and suggests that sellers too can be deceived in a market transaction. This forces the seller to take responsibility for the product, and discourages sellers from selling products of unreasonable quality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor
Maybe Quixtar and the IBOAI should think about the products they sell at unreasonable prices. It would seem that would be more productive use of a companies time vs posting unprofessional statements like this and the previous Just Go, Team.
August 16th, 2007 at 9:56 am
How do you have $1 billion+ in sales/year if your products are too high-priced?!?!? The whole premise of person-to-person selling is that you have the opportunity to explain the benefits. P&G can’t make a product like SA8 because they can’t explain it in a 30 second commercial.
I am 48 years old and do marathons for fun (Team in Training). Double X, XS, and Rhodiola DO make a difference.
Wal-mart’s advertising focuses on low prices. I focus on quality. Quality is a better deal for the consumer. Learn why and you can sell our products…not to everybody, but no one sells to everybody…not even Wal-Mart!
August 16th, 2007 at 10:12 am
Please tell me that this is a joke….that a billion dollar company has not posted another sarcastic, insulting ( to me, reporters and attorneys, etc ) and generally childish statement.
Can someone with some common sense please be put in charge of “official” statements, so that when this is finally settled we will all still have a business to come back to. OOPSY, that’s right…I’m NOT coming back to Q ! No matter what color the sky is, it’s gotta be better than under your umbrella. JUST 15 %…THEN LET THEM GO !!!!
P.S. Besides, Quix, isn’t this a do “as I do” biz? IF Team makes any calls ( and BTW, I don’t believe for a second that any WILL be made, they are not the ones writing ugly things about others ) are they not just following what YOU have done ? All the Plats and above DID get calls from you …or will you deny that like all the other complaints ?
August 16th, 2007 at 10:22 am
Well, after reading these aweful, hateful blog enteries and doing some research on my own, I’ve decided that I’m heading out the door and following TEAM no matter how long it takes.. you can bet your going to lose alot of IBOs, I’d say 40% is too low… Amway, Just go… I’m sticking with the future.
August 16th, 2007 at 10:27 am
Cathy, if the newspapers are true and Quixtar only does 3.4% in retail volume outside of IBO’s, then they are going to have a lot to answer for. You are probably a great person who’s personality lends itself great to the retail end. When it comes down to it Price determines most of Americas buying power. This whole situation has become a lot more than price. Alticor has just displayed the most unprofessional actions that has ever been released. Couple that with going behind the backs of ALL IBO’s and not telling us in the near future that we are going back to AMWAY is a huge mistake. Why don’t they let IBO’s vote on the name?? The name Quixtar is a few short months from termination!!
August 16th, 2007 at 10:58 am
Question for Team members!!!
What type of business building techniques to you do that would cause this uproar…
Do you just put people in your downline anywhere to strengthen your orginization?
Thanks!!
August 16th, 2007 at 10:59 am
93 F.T.C. 618
IN THE MATTER OF
AMWAY CORPORATION, INC., ET AL.
FINAL ORDER, OPINION, ETC., IN REGARD TO ALLEGED
VIOLATION OF THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION ACT
Docket 9023.
Complaint, March 25, 1975
Final Order, May 8, 1979
This order, among things, requires two Michigan corporations engaged in the doortodoor marketing of various household products, and two corporate officers, to cease allocating customers among their distributors; fixing wholesale and retail prices for their products; taking retaliatory action against recalcitrants; and disseminating pricelisting data which fail to advise that price adherence is not obligatory. Respondents are additionally prohibited from misrepresenting potential earnings and other relevants to prospective distributors.
Are Quixtar and the IBOAI in violation of this FTC Order? TAKING RETALIATORY ACTION AGAINST RECALCITRANTS.
Whether Q terminated their IBOships before or after the class action lawsuit in California, Q’s actions are clearly retaliatory.
http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/cases/mlm/ftc/amway.htm
August 16th, 2007 at 11:12 am
JEM, Thanks for compliments on my selling ability! I’ve had an Amway/Quixtar business since 1991, and my background is business (tho my MBA is in finance, not marketing).
People tend to do what they believe they can do. 100PV is what’s shown on the SA4400 and 100PV is pretty much what you can generate through personal use. No matter what Quixtar says about customers, it’s up to the distributor to generate volume. I think most systems have been historically focused more on sponsoring than selling.
Our diamond has one of the highest PV:IBO ratios in Quixtar. We sell stuff….lots of stuff! It’s what we are trained to do, so we do it. Most of my customers are wholesale, but in the big picture, bonus money is far more lucrative than retail profit. And, I believe in our products. I would rather sell Nutrilite at wholesale (and get more product into the consumer’s hands) than make retail profit. The difference shows up in my bonus, and in the health of my customers. It’s a long-term approach that pays off in referals and repeat business.
re: price
It’s very expensive to get sick. It’s time-consuming to get stains out of clothing, or have to replace it because laundry products aren’t working. Cosmetic procedures are not risk-free…which product line do you want me to promote? Our core-line products are better alternatives than almost any product on the market. My dog is even healthier because of Nutripet (vets are expensive, too). Most people don’t look at the hidden expenses incurred by the choices they are making. Remind them of what it costs to do what they are already doing, and Quixtar products are suddenly a good deal.
Re: Amway
The vast majority of people getting into the business today are under 25. They don’t have negative feelings about Amway. As soon as I heard about the switch back to the Amway name (in June…don’t people read the Quixtar site? Our upline also shared the info.), I decided to “come out of the closet” and present Amway as an asset. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it worked! When I said, “And I’m sure you are familiar with the quality of the Amway products…they’ve been around for 50 years!” I got agreement, not scoffs.
Bottom line: Quixtar/Amway is making changes that make it easier to sell to customers. Free shipping, 20% uplift in PV…all these things make sales easier. (click on the little 2008 postage stamp on the opening page of Quixtar for the brochure). Just because the rest of the IBOs aren’t selling doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. It just means they haven’t done it yet. Business schools (dog trainers, parenting books…) teach you to reward the behavior that you want. Quixtar seems to be getting that concept.
My customers are excited about free shipping, and it’s going to be a good year for us!
August 16th, 2007 at 11:18 am
Am I the only one who thinks it’s interesting that not a single person at Alticor has given a refutation of the facts spelled out in the Team’s lawsuit? Perhaps that’s because they can’t. Of course they’ll tell us that their lawyers won’t let them, but that would also be non-factual. A vigorous point-by-point defense would help their case. Seems to me the only posts that ring true are those like Ron Simmons at: http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24
August 16th, 2007 at 11:52 am
the Author of this Blog is either mis-informed or has not studied about business or law. All those things in which has happened to “The Team” in 6 days is normal in any business seperation lets get real, on might ask why were they suspended from the IBOAI well I don’t know I am not previ to that information however it makes sense to me to think that the guidelines to be on the board is to be a diamond if they resigned or if we take alticore’s position and they were terminated either way they aren’t diamonds there for in my mind they can’t be on the board it is comon sense. Lets use some!!!
August 16th, 2007 at 11:53 am
RE: POST 40 by Cathy
Thank you Cathy, you’ve just confirmed that Quixtar/Amway is running an illegal pyramid. The whole basis of the lawsuit is that the retail prices are unrealistic, therefore you cannot retail the product.
You are a supporter of Quixtar/Amway sales, and even YOU say that you sell at wholesale prices and not at the retail price - because you know very well the wholesale prices are at the retail market or higher.
Thanks for confirming the lawsuit / pyramid allegations, we appreciate your comments!!!
The truth is here:
http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24
August 16th, 2007 at 11:54 am
You know one thing I don’t like about political campaigns is how they always bad talk each other. That always brings me to conclude that they don’t have anything to offer about themselves so they must tell lies and cut the other persons character to make the other person look really bad.
August 16th, 2007 at 11:54 am
Thank You, Cathy in Dayton…#40
My mother makes at least 50 customer sales per month. The products are saleable.
Plain and Simple: They broke there contract, their contract was terminated. If ANYONE breaks a contract there are consequences. They were given the opportunity to correct their practices and keep there contract, but they preferred to remain crooked. I am glad to see that Q is showing some backbone in cleaning out the dirty elements soiling it’s reputation.
It is to bad that some people have there heads so deep that they can not see past the blinding god-like appearance of the ’so called’ great 8.
For all those TEAM people that have not been blinded, good for you. You are true leaders and not followers, and leaders that keep their egos in check will go far.
August 16th, 2007 at 11:56 am
Can anyone tell me why I am subject to a non-compete clause? I registered with Quixtar as a Quixtar Independent Business Owner. There was NO non-compete clause in the Business Compendium. And I specifically did NOT register with Amway.
Am I reading all this correctly? Alticor people??? Is it true that whatever I signed really means whatever the Alticor company says it means? At any given time? Subject to change?
August 16th, 2007 at 11:57 am
P.S. Just who is the writer of this piece (Caveat emptor)? Does Alticor pay you to write like that?
August 16th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
Thank you for taking a strong stand,like i have said before don’t stop now.Lets get back to what made this company great!!
August 16th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
What could Alticor possibly have to gain by kicking out these leaders if there were no problems?
I think most people are unaware of how costly it would be for Alticor to face regulatory action by the FTC. It sounds like TEAM’s practices increased that risk. Alticor had to decide whether it’s cheaper to lose part of its sales force or risk another round with the FTC.
Alticor is a business. Its long-term success is tied to its ability generate profit so it can pay our bonuses, so that we have an incentive to sell its products…capitalism in its purest form.
I am reading that Alticor spent years trying to work things out. Once this entered the courts, Alticor’s options were limited. The lawyers determine the course forward. That’s the reality of doing business in the US today.
I’m glad Alticor made the hard decision.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
P.S. Caveat emptor — is that a message to all IBOs?
August 16th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Just wanted to mention a quick note. I am note very experienced in this business. but I have seen some trends about contacting people to join my buisness. first off 90% of the people that I have contacted have first said, “this isn’t Amway, because if it is don’t even bother telling me any more.” This is very scary seeing we are going back to using the name Amway. Even the name Quixtar many people know as beinig related to Amway. I have been reamed up one side and down the other by friends when they heard the name Quixtar. I can live with the Quixtar name because it is a smaller number of people who hate that name. It would be nice to be to sell a product that people feel instictly that they got a good deal for rather than always hearing your prices are to high. My wife is always (ok not always but when she see the price, I generally hide them from her) getting on my case about spending money we don’t have on dish soap and shampoo… when I can go to meijers and get it for more than half the cost. I know that someday I will build a buisness and the cost won’t matter. but wouldn’t it be exciting to be almost competitive. Now XS energy is a great product with a great price. I see all our competitors trying to mimic and I think that is way cool.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
You must be kidding with this. Trying to hide the real truth? The point is, WE CAN’T TO BUILD A (soon to be) AMWAY BUSINESS THAT HAS WAY OVERPRICED UNRETAILABLE ITEMS. Let’s be transparent, shall we? Orrin stood up to the corporation and said basically, if you are going do these changes that you are suggesting, then my business is about dead anyway cause I can’t build it the way you want. He said, give us a choice to leave or stay and we will go quietly and peaceably. And for that, he’s terminated. Then slandered. Then not allowed to state his side of the story… And I was going to put my financial future into Quixtar, soon to be Amway (again)…
I think the Titanic has just struck the ice burg, and the company is yelling at the band… “keep playing”. This rat of the 15% is leaving regardless cause that’s how I feel I’m being treated with all these rules and regulations which make an extremely difficult business to build now impossible starting September 1! If it’s just 15%, then LET US GO! (or are you scared it’ll be more)
August 16th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
I am amazed that most of you think that Alticor/Amway/Quixtar should just roll over on this and give in to the demands (extortion?) of Woodward and his group! The non-compete clause is there to protect both Quixtar AND the IBO’s so that entire groups are not raided and taken to other competing businesses. From Quixtar’s point of view, how can you expect them to say - Sure, take our distributors and use them all to start up another business that will compete with us. That is absurd and clearly is not good business. No one is enslaved to Quixtar as Woodward would have you believe. Anyone can leave at any time without repercussions. After the 6 months non-compete clause expires (which EVERY SINGLE IBO AGREED TO WHEN JOINING QUIXTAR!!!) they are then free to do whatever they want. The only thing they cannot do is use confidential information that was provided to them by Quixtar to go back and entice IBO’s to join them. Business is business and just because Woodward et al don;t like the changes that are happening, that does not mean they can ignore the rules that they singed up under and which they also had everyone else sign up under.
That said, the tone of the communications from Quixtar is certainly degrading and unprofessional. I have no respect for the manner in which they have handled themselves throughout this event. On the other hand, Woodward and the others openly lied to propsective IBO’s in describing the relationship to Quixtar, so how can anyone be expected to believe them either?
There are many legal and ethical business opportunities out there. Quixtar and Team do not qualify, in my opinion, under either of these criteria. Coupled with the baggage that all fo this will create for both organizations moving forward, I will put my time efforts and belief in something else.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
I have to agree with a comment posted over at the forums.freetheibo.info site. Someone stated over there that it is becoming more apparent that the Corp. wants to seperate itself from the little people (IBOs). It seems the Corp. wants to move itself over to a manufacturer only and move products in a more traditional manner with retail outlets like they do in China.
I think they wanted to do it more slowly and without all the fighting but thanks to the great 15 it is all in the open and things will speed up much more quickly.
August 16th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
First off folks, you must realize that the person writing these Corporate Communications posts is none other that Jody Victor himself. At least that is the general concensus.
Second, this is the same pattern used by Amway/Quixtar that has been going around for a few years now. Remember Bo Short, Bruce Anderson, Al Leblanc, Andy Andrews (et el Team in Focus), Gerry Betterman, Brig Hart, Kenny Stewart, Don J. Lorencz, Marshall and Diana Douglas, Mike and Lynn Jakubik, Ron and Melanie Rummel, etc, etc. The list is endless.
Third, before all is said and done, there will be no more Quixtar–just Amway AND most if not all of the “kingpins” will be terminated due to unyielding pressure from the company. That after all has been the plan right from the beginning. They will either give in or be terminated and stripped of all.
Am I right Jody?
August 16th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
If it is only 15% of their, let them go. If they are that unethical, let them go. If they were breaking the rules for that long without even getting a warning, let them go. If Alticor is telling the truth, they should just let them go. Something doesn’t add up.
If Brady was unethical, why was he on the Rules/Ethics board for QUIXTAR in 2007? If Woodward was causing so many problems, why was he on the Quixtar Awards and Recognition committee in 2007. Why was Haugen on the QUIXTAR Executive Board if he was causing all this trouble? Why was Wilson there too? Something really bad must have been uncovered for ALL of the top leaders in their business would turn their backs like this.
It doesn’t add up…
If you want to know what really happened:
http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24
August 16th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
One question…teh plaintiffs state that they do not want monetary compensation. Why then would they request a jury trial (juries always award more damages than judges do)? In their demands they ask for payment for legal fees. The very next demand is, “For such other and further relief as may be available at law or equity, and that the Court deems appropriate.” To this says, we don’t want money but if a jury wants to give it to us we will gladly take it!
August 16th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
the bottom line-
no matter who ends up RIGHT if there can be such a thing, the business AS WE KNOW IT is over. Sometimes that is not a bad thing. If the FTC doesn’t try to find something wrong with Amway/Quixtar, then it will be changing the name that hurts us all. It hurts those who presented the Quixtar name ONLY during presentations and not the long history of formation, and it hurts the ones who will ATTEMPT to build under the Amway name. Surely, 95% of the people are not wrong who have said No to the name change. For some reason the corporation wants to say, concerning the TEAM issue,that they care about us and want to protect us so WHY DID YOU NOT CARE ABOUT US when we asked, pleaded for you to not change the name? Is the smear tactic out there so that come September when the name changes and business drops majorly you can then blame it on the TEAM for the destruction?
August 16th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
The childish responses that the Corporate Communications have been posting are distasteful and disrespectful to those of us who have been loyal to Alticor/Quixtar and regretable Amway.
One has to wonder the motive behind the Quixtar to speak to us as if we are children unable to full grasp the sever nature of what is happening.
I for one - (Not being TEAM) find if unthinkable to continue working with Alticor/Quixtar and was wondering if TEAM needed any new Team members?
August 16th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
It is about time all parties are getting what they deserve. Amway/Alticor/Quixtar/Dexter Yeager/ The Team are all greedy. They have manipulated millions of people. Yes I built the business with 100’s people in my group and I quit at the Founders Direct level, after finding out 2/3 of income comes from system
May be Rich DeVos, Jay Vanandel, Dexter Yeager, and Bill Britt rot in Hell!!!!
August 16th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Alticor continues to show professionalism and integrity through such tasteful words. I’m so proud to be apart of the quiet and professional side of this dispute. I’d love to see some facts proving that YOU are right and TEAM is wrong? Instead of throwing stones ,like 7 year old kids teasing the smart kid for getting good grades, why don’t you put your “business ethics” and “intelligence” to work and find something of importance. Give the IBOs and people of your company and community something to say, “Alticor has a point”. This isn’t the 70’s anymore… people can research and find information. Slander doesn’t sit well with the public or the people who know the people you are bad mouthing. Especially written in these offensive rediculous words. You are an embarassment to businesses everywhere. I hope the judge uses these captions against your “ethical business” when you meet TEAM and some of your own in court.
August 16th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
Who elects the members of the IBOIA board? Is it Quixtar or is it other Diamonds and Crowns?
August 16th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
BK, in response to Alticor “rolling over”, what about us “rolling over” and just wandering along like sheep excepting everything they want to dole out. The board was put in place so that IBO’s could at least tell the corporation how the IBOs felt about changes. Givin input, there to protect what they’ve worked so hard to build and grow. Alticor is dissolving the board. Why? They don’t give a hoot about what you think. They want their 35% profit and that’s final. If you don’t like the changes, then you have to terminate your business and income and wait for 6 months, so you can start OVER and build other business if you want. I say losing everything you’ve build is a big repercussion. The way the business stands now and the reason for the law suit is because Quixtar right now is an illegal pyramid.
If Quixtar was a viable business, then yes, the 6 months is a good practice, but it’s NOT. And this is the argument. TEAM wants to be let go because they are TRAPPED in an illegal business and this all would of been saved if Alticor would have lower it’s exorbitant profit margin. There’s legalities on both sides. We signed a non-competion clause, yes, but we also expected to join a legal business too.
August 16th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Who elects the board members? Is it Quixtar or is it the Diamonds and Crowns?
August 16th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Demands:
“For such other and further relief as may be available at law or equity, and that the Court deems appropriate.”
A jury trial???? sounds like they are looking for 12 sympathetic people to help them line their pockets a little more!!!!!
August 16th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
EVERYONE
Go place your cursor over the picture of Rich and Jay on THIS WEBSITE…what comes up……”Founded on a handshake”
Hum…..why so many rules now to keep people in?
Simple fact to judge the success or failure of a country or business….look at how many people want out verses want in….LET THEM GO!!
For the TRUTH:
http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24
August 16th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
They were there because the Yager organization has run the IBOAI for years and it needs to stop NOW.
August 16th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
If (as you say) no-one that has left ever launched a successful MLM business why don’t you let them go try??? Also, if they are only 15% of your volume, why not just let them go??
Are you scared?? And how can I join a TEAM LOS when they get things set up??
Stop being babies, and acting like communist dictators. If they wanna go let them!! And I will follow after this behavior!!!
August 16th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
They can go! But please ALTICOR, protect my business from someone who would want to take my downline that I have worked hard to build. They might talk the right talk but I know you have always walked the talk. If they want to go let them, just keep to all the rules that they signed. It protects me and mine.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
#62
The IBOIA board members are elected by profit sharing Platinums and above. The members of the board that resigned were representing their people. We lost our voice.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Cathy in Dayton Says:
August 16th, 2007 at 9:16 am
Haven’t any of these people ever read a blog before? It’s a different style of writing, so get over the “delivery” and look at the message!
If you want to read legalese, read official press releases. Bottom line: Training systems have become legal liabilities for Alticor. I keep reading about how IBOs are being punished for cleaning up their systems, but there are some pretty obvious rules laid out by the FCC and you can’t make a profit just by signing someone up. You can sell a product, but anything that remotely resembles a “finders fee” is patently illegal. To me, it sounds like some IBOs aren’t cleaning up their systems, they are trying to preserve the cash flow from these cash cows. Train us, keep it reasonable, and help us to sell products. That’s the business I’m in.
……….
Couldn’t have said it better so I’m bumping yours up.
It’s a blog not a court room or livingroom.
Get over the delivery and look at the message!
August 16th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
“Disclaimer
The authors of this blog are Quixtar employees. The opinions expressed here are not necessarily reviewed in advance by anyone but the individual authors. These opinions do not necessarily reflect the view of Quixtar or any other person or company.”
Nice disclaimer on your “start here” link. Way to completely say it’s real but then dismiss it is reflection of your business. And the fact they are called “opinions”. When will actual regulations that weren’t just made up in the past 6 days actually be brougth up and defended? Amazing how all these rules and regulations are NOW available for review. Just let them go and stop crying. Take your “75%” business and continue on your downward spiral. Team has never publically said anything to that effect except in their lawsuit(which is available) but they never claimed anything. You are defending yourself against a class action lawsuits claim… it’s almost like trying to talk to a deaf person while they sleep. NO ONE IS LISTENING. The court will decide what’s in the lawsuit is true or not. Remember, the IBOs make YOU money. Talking trash about the people they respect and the business they used to love will only increase the blow taken to your bottom line. If only the person who wrote this blog would have the intelligence to sit back and realize that “maybe i shouldn’t talk bad about the fastest growing organization working through us” or “hmm, i should have a public statment stating that we a sad to see the IBOs leave but conflict of interest have lead to this and we will be proceeding to a court case to resolve our differences”. You know, something respectable and professional. But no, Alticor and co. decided to take the high road and attack one man and his character as if he is walking plague and anyone who says his name will be forever diseased. It’s not just Orin, our entire community is with him. Talk bad about him, you talk bad about thousands. We’d love to leave you and follow him, how about you take your own advice and let TEAM GO.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
#69 Kim, TEAM is trying to make your business opportunity better. Think of lower prices? You’d get much more sales and actually be able to do your shopping and change your buying habits without sacrificing an extra $100 to buy those products to retail. The reason they want out is because the prices are so high that Alticor and co. are running Quixtar as an illegal pyramid. This will change and you’ll be better for it. Orin and co. are standing up for the little guys, the IBOs that are pushing hard to make every last bonus and buck they can while paying for expensive products. They want to make it a fair playing field.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Your downline has free will.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Name changing back to Amway?
Rich and Jay putting the make up back on?
Are they bringing back Ace and Peter?
August 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Regarding: Cathy in Dayton says:
“Haven’t any of these people ever read a blog before? It’s a different style of writing, so get over the “delivery” and look at the message!”
A little hint about communication…if the receivers are offended, It doesn’t matter whether it is just a style…Don Imus inappropriate joke was a just a style of entertainment and look where it got him.
Maybe the TEAM just has a different style of communicating the busines. Maybe Alticor should just get over it and look at their success.
If you don’t like anything I’ve written, just remember that it is a different style of writing and get over it.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
To Confused - The IBOAI board members are elected by IBO’s that are at the Platinum level and above. So organizations that have large numbers would naturally have more representation on the Board.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
to the Author or anyelse that might have it, it seems in this Blog you were able to post the 2 quixtar court docs. But the one from the IBOAI isn’t posted it is only a statement that is on the IBOAI website which i believe is added by quixtar. where is that document or did quixtar just use that has propaganda to make people believe the board is on board with all of this. They can’t possibly be on board reguardless of if they were part of “The Team” or not this has hurt all IBO’s from every place in the country. Please post the doc from the IBOAI showing they actually put a restraining order in place.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
If they are elected by other IBO’s (platinum and above) then what committee the are on has no relevance to Q/A’s decision. Q/A did not put them on the board nor did they elect them to their posts. Let’s face it…the majority of us don’t follow the rules and guidelines to the letter. We tend to look the other way when one of our downlines violates them as well. We (the majority of us) do however, attempt to build our businesses ethically. I would venture to say that we (the majority) also wouldn’t think of sponsoring IBO’s by deception and/or deceit. Nor would we teach our downlines to do the same. The majority of us would not grow our business by tens of thousands (as they have stated) knowing that we are violating federal law and/or our bread basket’s rules only to claim that they are illegal when they decide to clean up their act. If they, in fact, have believed that this is an illegal business why have they continued to promote it? They have written a book about leadership. Aren’t good morals and ethics part of being an effective leader?
August 16th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
what message? They are upset Team wants out so they want to blemish Orin’s name to make his future endevour sound worse than Quixtar. How nice. It’s like saying untrue things about someone and expecting everyone to eat it up and ask for more… or wait, that’s exactly what this is. I don’t look for messages in posts like this from companies. They have enough money to find someone to write appropriate and display their thoughts in a respectable manor. Until then it’s trash.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
TEAM is looking out for TEAM “system” money and doesn’t represent my our my interest!
August 16th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Why would anyone stay with Quixtar??
They never respond to any post re: these crazy blogs they write…they obvoiusly DO NOT care about the “little guy” because if they did they would read these and STOP with the middle school bully thing!
I just joined both organizations in Aug. and when all this first happened I wasn’t sure what to do but I keep reading these posts by Alticor and I am certain now that backing out of Quixtar is the right thing to do!! What if I made it as far as Orrin and Chris…this is what I would have to look forward to??? NO THANKS!!!
August 16th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
I am sickened that since 1999, we were “brainwashed” by Alitor that Quixtar was NOT Amway and was a completely new business. For all of these years we have gone out to the living rooms of America lying on your behalf, and now you are reverting back to the Amway name which scares off the majority of those people. Are you serious? Where is the integrity and character in that?
August 16th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Hats off to Orrin and the Team Leadership for moving mountians. After over 4 years of negotiations with Quixtar to improve their policies, Quixtar has decided not to lower their prices and on Sep 1st will revert to using the AMWAY name. Quixtar does offer quality products but at a premium price and customers at the retail level do not exist as Quixtar says we should have. Would you join AMWAY? I would not.
The TEAM is leading the way, facing the Giants. The TEAM is not about products but is about Leadership Development and making a difference.
Orrin, Chris, Tim, Randy, Billy and all the others are genuine leaders and the TEAM is going to a million people as the TEAM and not Quixtar.
Remember is was Quixtar’s choice not to lower their prices and become more competitive, it was their choice to be indifferent and their choice not to step up to the place to become a giant in the ecommerce industry.
Its obvious by the statement made by Quixtar, the writer is angry and has no posture. A true 95% thinker. Maybe you should subscribe to the Team Training System and enjoy some personal growth, unless change is not in your future.
August 16th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Great posts from Cathy in Dayton!
Way to go Alticor!
I wish you were stronger on the “reporters”.
Can someone point to an newspaper article where Amway was mentioned and the words “pyramid”, “scam”, “door-to-door” was not somewhere in the same article? Come on, the reporters consider us a joke, I say blast them harder. They have no clue.
My wife and I do 300 to 500PV in customer sales every month.
All products at retail except for Double X, which we sell for $60 to $70.
Quality and value is what we promote.
We do not waste time with people with a “Wal-Mart” mentality.
I still have not heard what the TEAM members plan to sell???
August 16th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
It’s really kinda sad when folks apparently taking sides with Corp are talking about “MY DOWNLINE” as if they had some “ownership interests” to exert - a vested interest to protect for all the effort and capital they have expended to date.
Because they then turn around and laud Ada for their efforts, I wonder if they actually understand this disagreement is exactly about that - and in a nutshell, Corp is saying “Mr/Mrs IBO, you really don’t own a thing - you’re basically itenerant “help” and have no vested interest here”.
I recall meeting an author a couple years back - think his name was Mason Weaver — and he had just written a book “It’s OK to Leave the Plantation” {now, before anyone tries to whack me for racial insensitivity, Mr. Weaver is an Afro-American (read: AMERICAN-AMERICAN) author, so in PC circles, that makes it OK for him to say}
His preposition is that folks basically fall into either the Slave mentality or the Prisoner mentality — and indicates Prisoners look to escape tyranny and oppression, while Slaves “grin & bear it”. His example: Throw a rope to a prisoner, they’ll tie a knot in the end, and climb hand over hand to FREEDOM - at the same time, the Slave looks at the very same rope and visualizes a lynching (theirs) coming.
To whit, TEAM has basically tossed a rope to IBOs - albeit winding through the legal system - it’s now up to each IBO whether they view that rope as a path to FREEDOM or a tool for LYNCHING.
Paraphrasing one very successful “PRISONER” of recent fame … “you basically don’t get what you deserve, but rather what you expect”
So … what WILL you choose to do with The Rope?
Tag - you’re it!
August 16th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
addition to previous post. The link in the address bar on the IBOAI website tells it all…the ASP shows where the information is housed “http://www.iboai.com/MediaCenter-QuixtarAmway.asp” It is housed at QuixtarAmway not IBOAI…Prove me wrong produce the actual restraining order the IBOAI is supposed to have put in the courts.
August 16th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Alticor - there is one more contract you need to terminate, and fast
August 16th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
Yes, we all know that only time will reveal the truth. But in all honesty, I don’t want to be associated with a company (Quixtar/Amway) that is so unprofessional in their PR.
The only other being that I am aware that is able to deceive and twist half truths better than this is the devil himself.
The TEAM leaders who have been presented with this so called restraining order have basically been asked not to slander the opposing party or try to influence the actions of their team members . That leaves the defendants with an open playing field to speak at whatever they want (true or false) about the Team.
Quixtar/Amway is doing a pretty good job of their own deformation of character.
August 16th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
To the Alticor blog author:
Please stop all posting until you have let your emotions settle or until you turn this blog over to someone with a more mature attitude. YOU ARE NOT HELPING OUR CAUSE!!!!!!!!
As stated on another blog: “…my message to Alticor is to find a better spokesperson for your company and win the PR fight with TEAM by being the more civil and professional in this situation.”
Get the message???
August 16th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
YESTERDAY I called Quixtar to verify if I could use Team’s tools as long as I wasn’t stacking and people knew it was Quixtar- they said Team’s tools were very good and yes I can use what has been approved by the corporation. Today my upline gets an email saying that he had 24 hours to agree to stop using the tools and going to functions or they were going to terminate him- he’s platinum–
WHAT THE HECK IS THAT!! If I am following Quixtar’s stand on stacking then how the crap am I in violation?? If this truly IS all about stacking like you say!–
HOW CAN YOU TAKE MY BUSINESS AWAY?? when just yesterday you said they were good and I could use the approved tools! So is it just dependent on your mood at the time? If Dex or Britt or any of the other big wigs tick you off does that mean you can throw out anyone dispensing tools because you are seeing that the majority isn’t lining up with what you are saying!
What happened to INDEPENDENT business owner!! You have my _ _ _ _ _ in a vice and you can change your opinion daily!!
Hmmm so does that mean that all of us who said adios to Internet (Tool business associated with Dex’s kids) because of unparalelled greed have to go back to him because HE you approve of and OF COURSE the fact that the boys (who own internet)and are inherited crown ambassadors surely don’t have THAT MUCH pull to cause you to help with that flaming ship! I think the big wigs who have for 20 and 30 years are the ones crying in Quixtar’s ear- they know how much they have lost in tool and function business due to people leaving and if that accounts for a majority of their income I can see them having a great deal of pull with Quixtar
August 16th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
It’s unfortunate that the leaders of these great businesses are acting like children with their actions and comments. The only ones that are going to be hurt by these actions are the IBO’s when our competition gets a hold of this they will use it to destroy all that we have worked for. There’s more at stake here then just issues between Alticor and the Team. The two of these groups need to sit down and fix this before to much damage is done. Great leaders go for the win win.
August 16th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Doesn’t anybody do research…. Lawsuits will tell you alot and most people dont lie under disposition because they will go to jail.
After building the business for almost 13 years, it is my opinion that Quixtar is one of the hardest businesses to build. I have watched One Executive Diamond, Two Diamonds, Countless Emeralds and Directs quit in my upline.
I have become a Millionaire in those hard to do other businesses ie real estate, traditional business, etc.
Dexter Yeager and family in the late 90’s were making $60 MILLION DOLLARS PROFIT EBITDA. Do your own research on the Kenny Stewart lawsuits….
If you are going to become rich in America you have to start thinking like Millionaires. Millionaires dont crowd arenas unless they are the ones hosting the event ie Quixtar Diamonds, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Donald Trump etc.
The Millionaire club is a lonely club because most of them are focused on their business.
August 16th, 2007 at 6:39 pm
You know the longer you (A,Q whatever name your going to choose) the more this is going to cost you, not just in Dollars, of course that’s the great indicator, but in human lives, that now have lost another Dream.
Have you guys looked at any of the elections lately? When 1 party ASSUMES their constituents are IDIOTS is when they lose elections and constituents. Problem today is that most of us (IBO’s) are more intelligent then you give us credit for. Anyway point being if you analyze what you’re doing around the globe, like in UK & ROI, May 4, 2007 (if you haven’t read it you need to go to A in UK and read it) you act, not for sure, like you’re positioning yourself to sell the Company.
Guys(Doug & Steve) have you forgotten the principles your fathers said this company was founded on and for whom it was for, the IBO, and I believe Doug I was in the Audience when you reiterated those principles.
I agree with some of the other posts, that your legal & pr staff, along with Jim Payne should be immediately Terminated for IMPROPER BUSINESS BUILDING PRACTICES(or in this case business REDUCTION practices). Now more than ever should you guys go, especially with the amount of TRUTH coming out (Letter from Ron Simmons … http://forums.freetheibo.info very first post), you going to get a restraining order on him too?
What people(ibo’s, general public that you say has a great opinion of you) are now figuring out is that if your (A, Q) house is clean and transparent, then why did you immediately file a restraining order, blast biased and disparaging remarks to EVERY IBO and why did you feel it necessary 3 years ago and without individual IBO approval or disclosure attach a no compete clause to our renewal?
Guys, (and this is why you need to terminate the real problems in your company, those named above) what you don’t get is that Rich said a long time ago, we can’t cleanup the nation until we cleanup our own bedrooms… something like that. Go back and listen to his audios along with some other really great current ones then look at your house and bedroom and realize its DIRTY!! We know it. We’re not IDIOTS!
August 16th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Wow, to say that I am disappointed with the professionalism of the comments of the bloggers on the official Alticor site, would be an understatment.
I’m not sure how you figure this kind of statement would be useful, or even acceptable to anyone associated with A/Q.
It may have started as a bash TEAM type of thing but is quickly spreading to alienate IBO’s of all organizations. How can we feel pride in representing a company that would put such a childish spin on such a serious matter at a time when professionalism needs to be at the forefront.
August 16th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Thank you for showing the world how unprofessional this company really is. I hope the world is paying attention.
August 16th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
As a beginner in this process, I became involved to provide income and more choices in my life. I was given a book called “Compassionate Capitualism” written by Richard DeVos. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t capitualism stand for free enterprise, the ability to enter the ring and try your hand at the market share. Now the compassionate side takes into effect the futures of individuals, always thinking people over process. This includes having sound foundations that everyone can win. As stated before I just want to win, if the co-founder wrote a book with understanding that the more the competition the better the product and the better the individuals, it appears to me Quixtar should encourage Woodward and the other ibos to compete. The public and the new ibo will only have a better business to come into. Non-compete clauses mean never become better. Wasn’t our country formed during a non-compete clause, but we can all talk like this because someone found a problem with it. Just looking for thoughts.
August 16th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
With all due respect Greg…….How could you think that tools that only speak of the “Team” and no mention of the business opportunity being Quixtar, would ever be approved by Quixtar???? I too called Quixtar today with the same concern, and they said not to use ANY tools unless they were approved. Uuuugh….I just purchased alot of Teams 1st night packs! To err on the safe side during this time they recommend not using the Team tools, just to be safe. That I will do, because I want to do the right thing.
I totaly understand why they wouldn’t be approved because the entire process of showing the plan, the Team only promotes the “founders of the company”….Woodward and Brady. I know they mean the company “Team” but new prospect do not realize there are 2 destinct companies….the Team which is the leadership development system and Quixtar which is the ACTUAL business opportunity. New prospects clearly are not told that distinction, nor do they know that to even ask.
Our organization merged with the Team so I have seen both sides of the fence. It is very sad because I really think the Team’s systematic organization of tools and training is outstanding however, the system was designed to build the Quixtar business. They leave that very important part out and make the focus soley on the Team. I never understood that???
Quixtar is the company that will be sued if people feel they are decieved by these actions, so of course they would have to approve materials used. That’s what we all agree to when we become Quixtar IBO’s…like it or not. Otherwise we would have all kinds of homemade “systems” promoting individual concepts.
It is really a sad state this has come to and my heart goes out to all Team, Legacy & Team 5k members who are scared of how this will affect their livelyhoods. It’s not these Team IBO’s against all other IBO’s. One of my all time favorite diamonds EVER are Chuck & Colleen Goetshcel when we had them in to our organization to speak. It is just soooo sad all the way around. We all get into this business for the same reasons to achieve our dreams. We are all more alike than different. I pray there is someway this can be resolved with out destroying everyone involved.
August 16th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
There seems to be so much diversion and mudslinging when the basic debate comes down to a few basic things. #1 Are Quixtar products high priced at retail cost compared to retail stores? If we are to have success as Business Owners we need to be able to market a product to everyone not just the people who don’t have the “Wal-mart” mentality which is very few. Has anyone researched what Walmart has in sales per year? It is proven in research that our consumers care more for reduced prices and habit then in “quality” anymore and the younger generations are not any different. I have had to sell my products to customers at IBO cost or below because people in my area can get things cheaper elsewhere and they don’t care about quality, they will not pay that much for a bottle of shampoo even at Wal-mart. #2 Will changing the name of Quixtar to Amway help or hinder all IBO’s? Anyone that is actively participating in building their Quixtar-powered business realizes mentioning Amway is similar to putting out the scarlet letter A on your chest. That is the “scam that our grandparents, aunts, and uncles warned us about.” Approximately 1 1/2 years ago even Quixtar was emphatically denying that they were Amway in their online promotions, due to the fact of their business building model being different than the original Amway one.
Doesn’t Steven Covey, a famous author and businessman and many other professionals mention that it is critical to have a win-win situation for a business to succeed and be effective. It seems to me that both Customers and IBO’s would win if Quixtar reduced their prices and did not change their name to Amway.
No matter what you believe, everyone has a right to express their opinion without being badgered or fired.
We live in a free country, with a free enterprise system. If you do not agree with how a business is run and you own the business, Independently, shouldn’t you have a say so in changing that?
And if people don’t listen, isn’t it our right and responsibility as leaders in this country to stand up and take action and do what we believe and understand through our expertise and the knowledge gained in our life that will benefit the whole group?
There are so many things that have been messed up in our country because people have chosen to stay in mediocrity, instead of fighting against what they believe to be injustices and going against the ’status quo’ to make this world a better place. I commend Woodward, Brady, and the others on taking that stand with the intention of making things better for others.
August 16th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
I am embarrassed that Quixtar has taken the stance they have taken. I thought I had joined a christian valued business and instead its looking like I am a member of Boyz in the Hood! Quixtar has the Team leadership under court order and has decided to harrass me! Anyone that has been through divorce knows you don’t have to prove anything to get a restraining order…..just make some unsubstantiated claims to the judge!
August 16th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
Would someone care to Wikipedia Caveat emptor? I think the use in this blog of that term is a little off. What words would you use to describe those who see injustices and choose to not only voice their objections but stand behind that voice, going against mediocrity and the status quo to join the ranks of many leaders throughout history. It seems that people can easily get sidetracked off the who point of the debate at hand. Are Quixtar prices to high? Will it benefit anyone for Quixtar to change it’s name to Amway? For people who don’t agree with these things, what choices do they have to change them with the noncompete clause in place? Aren’t we in a free enterprise democracy?
August 16th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
ONE MILLION STRONG BABY, ONE MILLION STRONG.
I SPENT TIME WITH TEAM, I HAVE LISTENED AND READ. MY ALLIANCE IS WITH TEAM.
ONE MILLION WITH OR WITHOUT YOU.
OH, PLEASE DON’T BE FOOLED IN THINKING THAT IT IS ONLY 15%. I MYSELF HAVE BUSINESS IN 39 STATES.
August 16th, 2007 at 11:17 pm
Jeez an Alticor web blog and 90% of all comments favor the Team.. That must really suck. If it were my web blog I think I would close it down..
August 16th, 2007 at 11:38 pm
Who is writing this stuff? Are DeVos and Van Andel asleep at the wheel? What a disgrace from a company that is SUPPOSEDLY lead by Christian families.
Since they seem to be so proud of their writing abilities in these blogs, we should have all IBO’s hand out these blogs along with the SA 4400 to prospective IBO’s, so they can see the character and integrity of their prospective business partner (a.k.a. Amway)! I’ll bet sponsor rates will go through the roof (NOT!).
Rumor has it here in Ada, MI (Alticor hdqtrs) that Alticor employees are getting tired of the legal battles, and are loosing faith in their company leadership. Who wouldn’t based on how they handle themselves publicly!
Alticor, you’ve totally lost it. No actually, you’re ABOUT to totally loose it - ALL.
August 17th, 2007 at 12:14 am
JODY VICTOR JUST LEAVE US ALONE! WE ARE NOT GOING AFTER YOUR SMALL AMERICAN BUSINESS!!
August 17th, 2007 at 12:15 am
I’ve been an IBO for 5 years with Team. I’ve read many blogs that state we (Team) are deceptive and hide Quixtar in our plans. That is simply not the case.
Tonight, I met with a new IBO at their home. They have a family member who works for Alticor. The two had dinner this week. The Alticor employee was surprised to hear that his family member (the new IBO) knew they were becoming Quixtar IBO’s while they were seeing the plan. He was suprised to hear that BOTH Quixtar and Team were talked about openly before the new IBO registered (no deception).
Quixtar/Amway PR people have spun so many lies this week, making it appear that every Team member misrepresents the opportunity, claims it’s easy money, get rich quick, and that we all stack.
Funny, none of them have spent ANY time with me or people in my organization in the living rooms of America the past 5 years explaining the business opportunity. NOT ONE OF THEM!! Yet they’re experts on what we do and say???
The Team training system teaches honesty, integrity, and doing what is right. Do you really think people are so ignorant that they would get mislead by an IBO and still be in our business 12 months later? People aren’t that stupid!
I don’t know about any of you, but I don’t like to constantly build and then rebuild. A business built on honesty is the only one that lasts. The Team model produces results that are sustainable… therefore it must be honest and trustworthy!
Alticor PR - please talk about things you know from a factual basis and quit generalizing about things you have no facts to back up. That’s called INTEGRITY.
August 17th, 2007 at 12:18 am
It is interesting that for over 8 years the TEAM and there business building approach was approved and and accepted by Quixtar, now according to them it is not? I suppose there is allot more information that I do not have, so I am not judging anyone, just a thought.
I am however very disappointed in fashion this is being handled by Quixtar, especially the very first email they sent to every IBO indicating that if you are involved with the TEAM you may be at legal risk, wow scary to the new guy.
Also as far as the none compete clause, it is my opinion that if you are involved in Quixtar and do not think it is right for you, then you are not going to being putting effort into it anyway. So why not let you do something else if you wanted to. Also it is my understanding that Quixtar put this non-compete clause in place just 3-years ago.
Also it seems to me that if Orrin Woodward,Chris Brady and several other leaders are willing to give up there income and Quixtar business to fight for other IBO’s and what they believe in, they are men of integrity driven by principles.
They should at least be respected for that and let the courts decide if what they are requesting is legally justified.
I am new to the business so I hope I have this correct but my understanding is most of the leaders involved in this mess have been involved with Quixtar/Amway allot longer then 3 years. It seems they would be forced to agree based on logic. If it was a choice of giving up there business income from Quixtar, which is probably there only source of income, or agree to the non-compete clause and continue to try and help others achieve what they have.
I will continue forward using the approved system and do the absolute best I can with what I have to work with. I believe that Quixtar has allot of great products and services, but so do other companies. I feel that you should be proud of who you work with, and feel confident that what you are doing you can do with moral values and integrity.
In the end I am confident that the truth will break thru as well as the facts.
Also I would like to note that there is way to much negative talk and incorrect statements that do not help anyone at all. I have found that positive actions=positive results.
If you are looking for a blog that has the facts right and also has a positive setting visit forums.freetheibo.info
I found it to be very uplifting for any and all IBO’s even if you are not part of the TEAM
best regards
August 17th, 2007 at 12:19 am
Hey, does anyone know…
Is Moses taking “Judas” Victor with him to the desert?
Ya’ll have a nice trip!
The rest of you better figure out what you’re going to do while they are wandering around counting THEIR money.
I know, maybe you could dig out some old cassette tapes of Orrin & Jody edifying the corporation (Amway) and the originator of the finest training system in the world (Dexter Yager) and then instead of waiting for Moses or Judas to get their heads out of their butts… you can just do what they did!
GO BUILD YOUR OWN EMPIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
{{STOP WAITING AND FOLLOWING, GO LEAD}}
August 17th, 2007 at 12:57 am
A note regarding business support materials. I see some concerns about what tools to use to build your Quixtar business. I have been made aware to only use approved tools. As far as I am concerned when I see content reviewed with a #, that has been reviewed and approved by Quixtar. So I don’t see why that would be an issue.
Also regarding the building your business and the term “stacking”.
I feel that is really a bad term to use because it is literal and figurative.
In reality anyway you build your business eventually someone is going to be “stacked” under or over someone. So I prefer the more appropriate terms “width building” and “depth building”
Both of these methods are approved by quixtar, As far as I know you just need to follow the rules regarding sponsoring, but check the rules if you are not sure.
I am not a legal geru or super business geru, but keep in mind that if you are an IBO you own your OWN business. With that being said I was under the impression I did not work for Quixtar, I work for myself and could refer to it as “my business” using approved tools and promoting Quixtar products.
Hope everything works out soon very everyone.
I am a new IBO and a little frustrated, so I hope I am not speaking out of place, I am just trying to help other IBO’s that may be reading this that are terified they are doing something wrong or illegal, PLEASE PLEASE stay informed with the right information and never give up on your DREAMS.
Best wishes.
August 17th, 2007 at 1:03 am
This isn’t a political debate..What’s with all the mudslinging. These business leaders are only human after all. The Main issues are since we are Independent Business Owner’s, why wouldn’t we want Quixtar to reduce pricing to better market products to customers. In addition, isn’t changing the name to Amway more of a hinderance to us than a help?
August 17th, 2007 at 1:09 am
Alticor, I like the style of your recent comments. Let the others complain you are not being “professional” (stuffy shirted) enough, I like the candor and straightforward talk. Keep it up.
August 17th, 2007 at 1:31 am
I suspect that Alticor with its Billions will survive this episode.
I suspect that Woodward,Brady,Wilson,Haugen,and the rest that were terminated will somehow figure a way to muddle through.
What about the single mom of three children?
How about the middle aged couple with a family that gave everything they had to this business
in the belief that it was the solution to their lack of a retirement plan?
How about the young person who decided to build this business rather than go to college?
How about us?
August 17th, 2007 at 2:31 am
Ladys & Gents….
Get ready for the real show….
I’m Not on the TEAM or part of the Team..But!
This is real and as a New Platinum this is a big deal. You see My wife now can stay home with our three beautiful kids. 9, 3, 15 months.
Huh. The extra few grand a mo makes this happen. (we live in Ca and need the extra $) How will this effect my home? Plaese Alticor fix this! We have build a wonderful business of a few hundered folks and these guys are right(Orrin & Chris). I have build a few customers, but it is a full time fight to keep them. None at retail, all wholesale! Now hear me on this… I’m a 6 figure full time sales person, with that being said, it is hard for me??? How can this be fair? The price deal is real and needs to be fixed so is this noncompete thing, AND THIS AMWAY NAME, HOLY COW CAN YOU HIT US ANY HARDER? The Quility is great but lets get real. Out of all the nice wonderful folks on our team a good part of them don’t order. ARE PRICES TO HIGH? How can so many folks be missing this? Also the stacking deal… That’s just BUll %^$#%^&& cover up to the real point. I wish I knew the TEAM better I would call some of them and tell them to build their future big don’t slow down keep the big MO going. The leaders of TEAM are right you will take your group with you! Quixtar is NOT right on this Ca law will not up hold the noncompete, TRUST ME! As for me? Take my Platinumship Quixtar I will join TEAM.
FIGHT TEAM FIGHT.
It’s easy show up and to be a patriot when the battel is over!!!
I stand with TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will fight with the men that are right. I’m a outsider but I know what they s