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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
August 15th, 2007 @ 11:05 pm ET…
Caveat emptor
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
Reporter friends,
You may find yourselves on the receiving end of a phone call from a smooth-talking PR guy or slick-talking class-action lawyer, trying to peddle you a story about a guy named Orrin Woodward and his fight with our company.
Please be advised:
They may neglect to fill you in on the entire legal landscape in addition to their lawsuit. (They’re busy people; it happens.) You might, for instance, ask them to fill you in on how Mr. Woodward and his associates have been:
- terminated by the company;
- suspended from the board of their trade association;
- been subjected to a temporary restraining order preventing them from looting our business;
- been subjected to a second temporary restraining order obtained by their trade association lest they abuse their fiduciary and business confidentiality responsibilities to that group; and,
- today, been ordered to show cause why they are not already in contempt of the first restraining order.
And that’s just in six days.
You should make sure that every person they claim is a plaintiff in their suit actually is a plaintiff in their suit. We already know that one of the people they told a reporter yesterday was suing us… isn’t. Oopsy.
You should be aware that when they tell you the plaintiffs account for 40 percent of our company’s U.S. business – well, they are making an exaggerated claim, which is one of the reasons we terminated them in the first place. The number might reach 15 percent — but that’s only if every single business owner they ever claimed affiliation with follows them out the door. Which we already know they won’t.
In short: should your phone ring with that sales pitch from Shughart Thomson & Kilroy or Ashton Partners, please know the folks at the other end of the phone represent people who are not so good with the rules (more on that later, but start here); not so good with court orders; and not so good with the facts.
Whatever they tell you about us, we’ll be happy to discuss. And, most likely, unscrew.
Whatever they tell you about anything else… well, word to the wise: if they tell you the sky is blue, you might want to look out the window.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
August 15th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
I have read most of the commends made by blogers to the official statement by Alticor
in “Just Go TEAM”. I hoped that the reactions would have left an impact in the way Alticor addresses issues from now on.
I was quite mistaken! It got even worth. Your statement shows not only your anger about what is happening it also shows that anger get is your way to communicate wisely. That’s not how a biilion dollar company reaches out to develop trust.
Sorry!
August 15th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
Hmmm. More classy writing on an official corporate blog. Maybe all those Team IBOs Alticor is trying to hold on to need another negative email from this writer. That ought to show them.
Yeah, tell the reporters that they have no journalistic sense and remind them they should check their facts. (They didn’t know they should do that - thanks Alticor)
Alticor: the ultimate standard in journalism?
Reporter friends: Feel free to send a thank you card to Alticor for the free tips about your profession.
August 15th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
As it says in Proverbs 18:17, “The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.” (ESV) I hope that folks will remember this, especially those tempted to accept assertions in the Team Complaint at face value. The Team timeline, Complaint, and other claims reply on readers’ ignorance of the facts and history of the Alticor companies, the IBOAI, and much more. Keep watching and withhold final judgement…
August 15th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
“Whatever they tell you about us, we’ll be happy to discuss. And, most likely, unscrew.”
I’ve read the Harteis article - it does NOT say he exonerates y’all - just that he is not willing to participate in the suit.
Does this mean you’ll add your own “spin”? You’re still coming off like a middle school bully - it’s not very becoming.
Guys - where’s Rich when you REALLY need him? Inmates now running asylum - apparently.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:03 am
“The number might reach 15 percent — but that’s only if every single business owner they ever claimed affiliation with follows them out the door. Which we already know they won’t.”
WHICH WE ALREADY KNOW THEY WON’T. PLEASE DON’T BE SO ARROGANT. I AM NOT AWARE OF THE EXACT NUMBER OF IBO’S, HOWEVER, THEY HAVE MY VOTE. I PREFER TO HAVE BOTH PARTIES COME TO AND “ADULT” CONCLUSION.
I BELIEVE THIS CAN HAPPEN. BUT IS SURELY WILL NOT HAPPEN WITH NEGATIVE SLANDER ON THE OFFICIAL NEW BLOG OF A BIG COMPANY.
OOPSY? WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THAT?
August 16th, 2007 at 12:04 am
Just Go, Jody!!
August 16th, 2007 at 12:13 am
“REPORTER FRIENDS”
YOU GUYS MUST BE SHAKIN IN YOUR BOOTS. YOU KNOW EVERY OTHER ORGANIZATION OUT THERE IS THINKING THAT THIS CAN HAPPEN TO THEM.
TO LOSE THEIR ORGANIZATION BECAUSE THEY WANT TO IMPROVE AN AREA OF THE BUSINESS. IF YOU ARE WILLING TO BREAK TIES WITH PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN IN YOUR CORNER FOR 20 YEARS PLUS OVER A DISAGREEMENT. I WOULD BE FEELING VERY UNCOMFORTABLE RIGHT NOW.
TAKE THE HIGH ROAD PLEASE.
WILL THE REAL IBOAI STAND UP. PLEASE STAND UP.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:30 am
Who the heck is writing this blog and what is with the unprofessional smarmy style?
Leave this for a board post not an official company post.
Just delete the entire thing and re-write it.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:44 am
SUCCESS 101
I have to earn my prospect’s TRUST every night when I Show The Plan if I expect them to join ME in business. And I have to work to keep it.
Obviously the Van Andel and DeVos families aren’t concerned about earning and keeping my TRUST anymore.
Quixtar had my trust until I learned that you didn’t even consult the IBOAI board before announcing the “transformation” back to AMWAY. This is a BIG mistake! This, along with your “shoot first and the rest will fall in line” strategy of discipline of your IBOs, and my feeling is you “could care less” how this will affect my future success.
I feel like an “employee” instead of a “partner” and just like many “employees” I DON”T TRUST YOU (the company) ANYMORE!
I WOULDN’T TRUST ANYTHING YOU SAY AT THIS POINT AS BEING THE TRUTH!
August 16th, 2007 at 1:02 am
In response to #8 Glam:
I think the teenage son/daughter of an authorized Alticor employee got hold of their mom or dad’s password and decided to have some fun.
August 16th, 2007 at 1:08 am
HOW CAN I SAY THIS GENTLY???? YOU GUYS SUCK!! HIRE A NEW WRITER!!!! YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE YOURSELVES AND TEAM MIXED UP. ALTICOR/QUIXTAR ARE THE CROOKED ONES!!!
August 16th, 2007 at 1:13 am
[…] media blog has just posted a whopper. This article is condescending to the journalists that they are writing to by opening the entry […]
August 16th, 2007 at 1:28 am
http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24
Finally found a truthful article. This is a MUST READ!!!! For anybody who was confused on which way they should go, this last blog post by Quixtar/Amway should help them decide. We would never want to do business, let alone promote a business with this kind of attitude. Sounds more like a rat backed into a corner trying to fight its way out instead of a multi-billion dollar corporation. Might of not been sure about TEAM since newly affiliated via Legacy but now definitely VERY PROUD to be a part of TRUE INTEGRITY!!!! Also check out www.businesswire.com and type in Quixtar. Several interesting articles and the one by the company still shows their temper by putting certain words in caps. They still don’t get it do they. Everytime they speak they lose more IBO’s. Someone is running scared.
The Press is good at doing their job. Trying to tell them how to do it? Give us a break!!
August 16th, 2007 at 1:28 am
Setting The Record Straight-http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24
OK Quixtar/IBOAI… enough of the run around, factual spinning and general planned distraction away from the issues! It is extremely interesting, despite the 1000s of official and unofficial releases you’ve authored, solicited and even paid for, that you have yet to answer, address or even acknowledge the serious allegations set forth in the class action lawsuit filed by the oh-so-terrible Mighty 15.
Could it be that there is dangerous truth there?! All you have done is shoot the messengers with personal attacks which according to Logic 101 says that you are afraid to confront the actual issues. It’s your only option since… YOU CANNOT SHOOT THE MESSAGE! Because it is true!
LOGIC 101- An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: “argument to the person”, “argument against the man”) consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or personally attacking an argument’s proponent in an attempt to discredit that argument. The personal attack is a debate tactic or means of avoiding discussion of the relevance or truthfulness the person’s statement. This line of “reasoning” is fallacious because the attack is directed at the person making the claim and not the claim itself. The truth value of a claim is independent of the person making the claim.
Don’t give us some runaround about legal privilege or confidentiality or whatever weak excuses Quixtar is so good at creating… give us the facts to support why the massive allegations against you are not true. Here is your chance.
But you won’t find it. There is no evidence to defeat the class action claims. So, we’ll just have to expect that Quixtar will now mount a smear campaign against Ron Simmons personally because he is Setting The Record Straight with the truth that he himself was involved in directly. Go ahead Quixtar, try to discredit a man with years of successful experience as a multi-million dollar financial consultant and years of experience in Quixtar and years of experience in dealing with YOU. Be careful, unless the actual people who were present at that meeting speak- they have no standing! Oh, wait… I guess that doesn’t matter since we’re not dealing with actual truth. We’re dealing with Quixtar truth- true is whatever you pay for it to be.
August 16th, 2007 at 1:29 am
Questions guys:
“The number might reach 15 percent — but that’s only if every single business owner they ever claimed affiliation with follows them out the door. Which we already know they won’t”.
1. What makes you think that they will not pack up and leave? Why should they be affiliated with this kind of business manners?
2. If TEAM affilaited organizations only represent 15% of Quixtars volume - why getting so negative and angry about it? Let them go and your world is repaired.
August 16th, 2007 at 1:29 am
I’m wondering if they hired a soap opera writer to post these blog entries. Talk about soap opera drama! Enough already!
We get the point that someone here is very upset at TEAM/Orrin & Co, but I thought this was supposed to be a professional business blog. The facts (as viewed by this side) can be presented in a more professional and less biting tone.
Who’s wrong and right here, I can’t honestly tell, I keep hearing conflicting things from both sides. Maybe some of each are right. I must say I am more impressed with the manner that TEAM has been communicating with the people this effects over the communications I’m seeing presented under the umbrella of the Quixtar/Alticor corporation.
Regardless of any potential wrong doing on TEAM’s part that could harm the business image, please stop and think about what and how something is written here before it gets posted. Sounding like a catfight between Nicole Ritchie and Paris Hilton doesn’t suit the image Quixtar I think would wish to maintain through all of this.
August 16th, 2007 at 1:35 am
I cannot believe you are serious! Who is doing the calling? Quixtar- I think that is what you meant to say because that I know for sure! How can you point a finger at Orrin Woodward when that is EXACTLY your behavior! Did someone get confused?!
August 16th, 2007 at 1:56 am
The following commetn is the best I have seen it stated yet. It would be nice to really get past this horrible dialogue even though it’s not even been a week. Can you believe that?
This entire situation is just sad… very, very sad.
Please Mr. DeVos and Mr. Van Andel, end it now- you are the only ones with the power to do so. Too many people are watching our example for this to be our legacy. Make the call. You have Randy’s, Billy’s and Orrin’s direct line. Let us all do something so unexpected in today’s times… let us ALL be bigger men than this… coming back together… resolving to go each our separate ways… beginning to move forward, each as best as we can, peacefully wishing each other whatever success we are willing to strive for in the service of others.
August 16th, 2007 at 2:16 am
http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24
This link will take you to the facts.
Wow, Amway, I am really disappointed.
August 16th, 2007 at 2:23 am
Wow, that was impressive. Amway needs to do some re calculating. I believe most of Team will be gone….ten’s of thousands of IBOs……gone.
I believe the same amount will leave other groups will leave from 1) being forced into Amway 2) losing the IBOIA representation 3) being emboldened by others standing up to fight 4) the shock of how the corporation is responding.
Slightly off topic…which organization (working under the Amway name) will ba able to make up for all the lost volume + the percentage in growth TEAM was carrying that was covering the other group’s die back? Think about it, while all your business was fading, TEAM made up the difference. That’s why sales have appeared flat. You were going backward, TEAM was growing.
Amway America won’t even do $400,000 this fiscal year.
August 16th, 2007 at 2:26 am
I think an above blogger got it right: I also think it’s Jody V. It sounds just like his smart-aleck tapes. On the other hand, there are times when people can be civil to each other during a disagreement; then there are other times it’s ok to say, “Why don’t you go (you finish it.)”
August 16th, 2007 at 2:40 am
If TEAM is dissolved after all this legal Mumbo jumbo, how is Quixtar going to assist me in growing my IBO-ship? In other word, where will the support and meetings and sponsoring tips come from?
August 16th, 2007 at 2:43 am
I can’t stomach you anymore. Your corporation that has had over 15 years of mine and many, many others loyalty and respect have now become just another company that truly cares nothing for their people. I was in the meeting in L.A. with Doug, Steve, and Jim for Emeralds and above. I can tell you that that was the day that Alticor/Amway/Quixtar lost any and all respect from me. We know the whole story !!!! You may think you can fool everyone with your PR spin and your fancy lawyer moves but when the dust settles and all the chips fall, boys you will be holding the short end of the stick. Your dirty back door under the cover of darkness antics are truly going to cost you. Your lack of respect for us the partners who truly made your company and your familys wealthy showed your true colors. I am ashamed to be associated with a company/ family’s that would treat people the way that you have and continue to with your corporations slanderous remarks. You can bet that 5,10,20 years down the road you will look back on this and point to this time in your companys history as the biggest mistake you had ever made. This is assuming your still in business. I truly hope you see the error of your ways and do the right thing. May God have His hand on you.
August 16th, 2007 at 2:50 am
Show some class! Your writing style is very unprofessional - “trying to peddle you a story about a guy named Orrin Woodward and his fight with our company.” I listened to Orrin Woodward speak (on a Team CD) and I was lifted out of myself by the way he communictes his vision, truly amazing - I don’t recall hearing another person speak quite like Orrin Woodward. I recall in that same CD Orrin Woodward saying people thought he reached his level of success because of luck and he said “what they don’t realize that I was out month, after month, after month, after month, after month showing the plan (those words stuck to me like glue)!” The person posting these blogs appears to be completely out of touch with what people like Orrin Woodward had to endure to grow this business. If you had some idea how difficult it is to show 25 plans per month, then you might be a little more respectful.
August 16th, 2007 at 6:10 am
Alticor…you come across as arrogant and condescending in this article. This style would be something I expect from Don Imus but not from an oganization of professional sales people. This this way you want us to treat prospects who disagree with us.
The way you have handled yourself in the postings of “Team just go” and this article shows your inability to relate to the public. No surprising you made the decision for a name change to Amway. The way way you come across at this site undermines any trust that you understand how to communicate with the public…hence the name change to Amway.
I think that Amway must stand for “Always My Way.”
If you are going to terminate someone…you should terminate your writers. They are only making things worse.
I’d like to know where the 15%/40% figures come from; what do they include. Team is 15%, or Team + Legacy + 5K is 15%? 15% of North American, 15% of world. If it is only 15%…why not let them go?
August 16th, 2007 at 7:16 am
I thought the first article was bad and filled with slinging mud–it has now been topped. Alticor, you now proven that you are scared and you really don’t care about the IBOs that worked hard for so many years to make you billions.
August 16th, 2007 at 7:20 am
What Alticor/Quixtar is saying is not lining up. I think they a in trouble.
http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24
August 16th, 2007 at 7:58 am
Gee, let’s see folks. Alticor should just back and let a PR firm go around slinging terms like “illegal pyramid scheme” and assert that none of the products can be sold at retail?
I think not. Both assertions are bald-faced lies being perpetrated by an organization that’s future relies, to a large extent, on convincing people that they’re true. Yet the future of Alticor most certainly does not depend on people believing TEAM is the way to go.
So who should we believe? Who is really the desperate party? I’ll continue to follow my upline’s lead and leave my trust where it belongs, with the DeVos and VanAndel families.
August 16th, 2007 at 8:04 am
Wow! For a multi-billion dollar company, that’s only losing ~15% of their bussiness, really isn’t acting like it. I hope all IBO are really seeing how this is playing out. I beleive that Alticor is going to lose this suit and a huge chunk of IBOs are going to leave, due to the name change.
I think it is silly that you change the name of Quixar back to Amway, and I had to find out on a 3rd party site, not proud enough to post on your own site?
Alticor continues to sink and continues to justify my why Alticor isn’t going to cut it in the next couple of years. RIP 2009
August 16th, 2007 at 8:18 am
“People of Integrity expect to be believed. When they’re not, they let time prove them right.”
Only time will tell, as none of us have all the facts yet. Alticor’s lack of professionalism says a lot. So does this article:
http://www.shauncarter.com/2007/08/billion-dollar-company-gives-their-two-cents/
August 16th, 2007 at 8:24 am
A sad day in Alticor’s history.
A company of integrity…it was. My heart sinks when I read the actions and comments of this company regarding the Team dispute.
My organization has quit…I am considering it aswell.
August 16th, 2007 at 9:16 am
Haven’t any of these people ever read a blog before? It’s a different style of writing, so get over the “delivery” and look at the message!
If you want to read legalese, read official press releases. Bottom line: Training systems have become legal liabilities for Alticor. I keep reading about how IBOs are being punished for cleaning up their systems, but there are some pretty obvious rules laid out by the FCC and you can’t make a profit just by signing someone up. You can sell a product, but anything that remotely resembles a “finders fee” is patently illegal. To me, it sounds like some IBOs aren’t cleaning up their systems, they are trying to preserve the cash flow from these cash cows. Train us, keep it reasonable, and help us to sell products. That’s the business I’m in.
By the way, I can’t believe the TEAM IBOs said it’s impossible to sell our products…I’ve been selling them for 16 years…I had several new customers referred to me this weekend because of the quality of our products.
Thank goodness Quixtar is cleaning house!
August 16th, 2007 at 9:21 am
Interesting title…
Caveat emptor is Latin for “Let the buyer beware”.
However,Caveat venditor is Latin for “let the seller beware”.
It is a counter to caveat emptor, and suggests that sellers too can be deceived in a market transaction. This forces the seller to take responsibility for the product, and discourages sellers from selling products of unreasonable quality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor
Maybe Quixtar and the IBOAI should think about the products they sell at unreasonable prices. It would seem that would be more productive use of a companies time vs posting unprofessional statements like this and the previous Just Go, Team.
August 16th, 2007 at 9:56 am
How do you have $1 billion+ in sales/year if your products are too high-priced?!?!? The whole premise of person-to-person selling is that you have the opportunity to explain the benefits. P&G can’t make a product like SA8 because they can’t explain it in a 30 second commercial.
I am 48 years old and do marathons for fun (Team in Training). Double X, XS, and Rhodiola DO make a difference.
Wal-mart’s advertising focuses on low prices. I focus on quality. Quality is a better deal for the consumer. Learn why and you can sell our products…not to everybody, but no one sells to everybody…not even Wal-Mart!
August 16th, 2007 at 10:12 am
Please tell me that this is a joke….that a billion dollar company has not posted another sarcastic, insulting ( to me, reporters and attorneys, etc ) and generally childish statement.
Can someone with some common sense please be put in charge of “official” statements, so that when this is finally settled we will all still have a business to come back to. OOPSY, that’s right…I’m NOT coming back to Q ! No matter what color the sky is, it’s gotta be better than under your umbrella. JUST 15 %…THEN LET THEM GO !!!!
P.S. Besides, Quix, isn’t this a do “as I do” biz? IF Team makes any calls ( and BTW, I don’t believe for a second that any WILL be made, they are not the ones writing ugly things about others ) are they not just following what YOU have done ? All the Plats and above DID get calls from you …or will you deny that like all the other complaints ?
August 16th, 2007 at 10:22 am
Well, after reading these aweful, hateful blog enteries and doing some research on my own, I’ve decided that I’m heading out the door and following TEAM no matter how long it takes.. you can bet your going to lose alot of IBOs, I’d say 40% is too low… Amway, Just go… I’m sticking with the future.
August 16th, 2007 at 10:27 am
Cathy, if the newspapers are true and Quixtar only does 3.4% in retail volume outside of IBO’s, then they are going to have a lot to answer for. You are probably a great person who’s personality lends itself great to the retail end. When it comes down to it Price determines most of Americas buying power. This whole situation has become a lot more than price. Alticor has just displayed the most unprofessional actions that has ever been released. Couple that with going behind the backs of ALL IBO’s and not telling us in the near future that we are going back to AMWAY is a huge mistake. Why don’t they let IBO’s vote on the name?? The name Quixtar is a few short months from termination!!
August 16th, 2007 at 10:58 am
Question for Team members!!!
What type of business building techniques to you do that would cause this uproar…
Do you just put people in your downline anywhere to strengthen your orginization?
Thanks!!
August 16th, 2007 at 10:59 am
93 F.T.C. 618
IN THE MATTER OF
AMWAY CORPORATION, INC., ET AL.
FINAL ORDER, OPINION, ETC., IN REGARD TO ALLEGED
VIOLATION OF THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION ACT
Docket 9023.
Complaint, March 25, 1975
Final Order, May 8, 1979
This order, among things, requires two Michigan corporations engaged in the doortodoor marketing of various household products, and two corporate officers, to cease allocating customers among their distributors; fixing wholesale and retail prices for their products; taking retaliatory action against recalcitrants; and disseminating pricelisting data which fail to advise that price adherence is not obligatory. Respondents are additionally prohibited from misrepresenting potential earnings and other relevants to prospective distributors.
Are Quixtar and the IBOAI in violation of this FTC Order? TAKING RETALIATORY ACTION AGAINST RECALCITRANTS.
Whether Q terminated their IBOships before or after the class action lawsuit in California, Q’s actions are clearly retaliatory.
http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/cases/mlm/ftc/amway.htm
August 16th, 2007 at 11:12 am
JEM, Thanks for compliments on my selling ability! I’ve had an Amway/Quixtar business since 1991, and my background is business (tho my MBA is in finance, not marketing).
People tend to do what they believe they can do. 100PV is what’s shown on the SA4400 and 100PV is pretty much what you can generate through personal use. No matter what Quixtar says about customers, it’s up to the distributor to generate volume. I think most systems have been historically focused more on sponsoring than selling.
Our diamond has one of the highest PV:IBO ratios in Quixtar. We sell stuff….lots of stuff! It’s what we are trained to do, so we do it. Most of my customers are wholesale, but in the big picture, bonus money is far more lucrative than retail profit. And, I believe in our products. I would rather sell Nutrilite at wholesale (and get more product into the consumer’s hands) than make retail profit. The difference shows up in my bonus, and in the health of my customers. It’s a long-term approach that pays off in referals and repeat business.
re: price
It’s very expensive to get sick. It’s time-consuming to get stains out of clothing, or have to replace it because laundry products aren’t working. Cosmetic procedures are not risk-free…which product line do you want me to promote? Our core-line products are better alternatives than almost any product on the market. My dog is even healthier because of Nutripet (vets are expensive, too). Most people don’t look at the hidden expenses incurred by the choices they are making. Remind them of what it costs to do what they are already doing, and Quixtar products are suddenly a good deal.
Re: Amway
The vast majority of people getting into the business today are under 25. They don’t have negative feelings about Amway. As soon as I heard about the switch back to the Amway name (in June…don’t people read the Quixtar site? Our upline also shared the info.), I decided to “come out of the closet” and present Amway as an asset. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it worked! When I said, “And I’m sure you are familiar with the quality of the Amway products…they’ve been around for 50 years!” I got agreement, not scoffs.
Bottom line: Quixtar/Amway is making changes that make it easier to sell to customers. Free shipping, 20% uplift in PV…all these things make sales easier. (click on the little 2008 postage stamp on the opening page of Quixtar for the brochure). Just because the rest of the IBOs aren’t selling doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. It just means they haven’t done it yet. Business schools (dog trainers, parenting books…) teach you to reward the behavior that you want. Quixtar seems to be getting that concept.
My customers are excited about free shipping, and it’s going to be a good year for us!
August 16th, 2007 at 11:18 am
Am I the only one who thinks it’s interesting that not a single person at Alticor has given a refutation of the facts spelled out in the Team’s lawsuit? Perhaps that’s because they can’t. Of course they’ll tell us that their lawyers won’t let them, but that would also be non-factual. A vigorous point-by-point defense would help their case. Seems to me the only posts that ring true are those like Ron Simmons at: http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24
August 16th, 2007 at 11:52 am
the Author of this Blog is either mis-informed or has not studied about business or law. All those things in which has happened to “The Team” in 6 days is normal in any business seperation lets get real, on might ask why were they suspended from the IBOAI well I don’t know I am not previ to that information however it makes sense to me to think that the guidelines to be on the board is to be a diamond if they resigned or if we take alticore’s position and they were terminated either way they aren’t diamonds there for in my mind they can’t be on the board it is comon sense. Lets use some!!!
August 16th, 2007 at 11:53 am
RE: POST 40 by Cathy
Thank you Cathy, you’ve just confirmed that Quixtar/Amway is running an illegal pyramid. The whole basis of the lawsuit is that the retail prices are unrealistic, therefore you cannot retail the product.
You are a supporter of Quixtar/Amway sales, and even YOU say that you sell at wholesale prices and not at the retail price - because you know very well the wholesale prices are at the retail market or higher.
Thanks for confirming the lawsuit / pyramid allegations, we appreciate your comments!!!
The truth is here:
http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24
August 16th, 2007 at 11:54 am
You know one thing I don’t like about political campaigns is how they always bad talk each other. That always brings me to conclude that they don’t have anything to offer about themselves so they must tell lies and cut the other persons character to make the other person look really bad.
August 16th, 2007 at 11:54 am
Thank You, Cathy in Dayton…#40
My mother makes at least 50 customer sales per month. The products are saleable.
Plain and Simple: They broke there contract, their contract was terminated. If ANYONE breaks a contract there are consequences. They were given the opportunity to correct their practices and keep there contract, but they preferred to remain crooked. I am glad to see that Q is showing some backbone in cleaning out the dirty elements soiling it’s reputation.
It is to bad that some people have there heads so deep that they can not see past the blinding god-like appearance of the ’so called’ great 8.
For all those TEAM people that have not been blinded, good for you. You are true leaders and not followers, and leaders that keep their egos in check will go far.
August 16th, 2007 at 11:56 am
Can anyone tell me why I am subject to a non-compete clause? I registered with Quixtar as a Quixtar Independent Business Owner. There was NO non-compete clause in the Business Compendium. And I specifically did NOT register with Amway.
Am I reading all this correctly? Alticor people??? Is it true that whatever I signed really means whatever the Alticor company says it means? At any given time? Subject to change?
August 16th, 2007 at 11:57 am
P.S. Just who is the writer of this piece (Caveat emptor)? Does Alticor pay you to write like that?
August 16th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
Thank you for taking a strong stand,like i have said before don’t stop now.Lets get back to what made this company great!!
August 16th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
What could Alticor possibly have to gain by kicking out these leaders if there were no problems?
I think most people are unaware of how costly it would be for Alticor to face regulatory action by the FTC. It sounds like TEAM’s practices increased that risk. Alticor had to decide whether it’s cheaper to lose part of its sales force or risk another round with the FTC.
Alticor is a business. Its long-term success is tied to its ability generate profit so it can pay our bonuses, so that we have an incentive to sell its products…capitalism in its purest form.
I am reading that Alticor spent years trying to work things out. Once this entered the courts, Alticor’s options were limited. The lawyers determine the course forward. That’s the reality of doing business in the US today.
I’m glad Alticor made the hard decision.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
P.S. Caveat emptor — is that a message to all IBOs?
August 16th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Just wanted to mention a quick note. I am note very experienced in this business. but I have seen some trends about contacting people to join my buisness. first off 90% of the people that I have contacted have first said, “this isn’t Amway, because if it is don’t even bother telling me any more.” This is very scary seeing we are going back to using the name Amway. Even the name Quixtar many people know as beinig related to Amway. I have been reamed up one side and down the other by friends when they heard the name Quixtar. I can live with the Quixtar name because it is a smaller number of people who hate that name. It would be nice to be to sell a product that people feel instictly that they got a good deal for rather than always hearing your prices are to high. My wife is always (ok not always but when she see the price, I generally hide them from her) getting on my case about spending money we don’t have on dish soap and shampoo… when I can go to meijers and get it for more than half the cost. I know that someday I will build a buisness and the cost won’t matter. but wouldn’t it be exciting to be almost competitive. Now XS energy is a great product with a great price. I see all our competitors trying to mimic and I think that is way cool.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
You must be kidding with this. Trying to hide the real truth? The point is, WE CAN’T TO BUILD A (soon to be) AMWAY BUSINESS THAT HAS WAY OVERPRICED UNRETAILABLE ITEMS. Let’s be transparent, shall we? Orrin stood up to the corporation and said basically, if you are going do these changes that you are suggesting, then my business is about dead anyway cause I can’t build it the way you want. He said, give us a choice to leave or stay and we will go quietly and peaceably. And for that, he’s terminated. Then slandered. Then not allowed to state his side of the story… And I was going to put my financial future into Quixtar, soon to be Amway (again)…
I think the Titanic has just struck the ice burg, and the company is yelling at the band… “keep playing”. This rat of the 15% is leaving regardless cause that’s how I feel I’m being treated with all these rules and regulations which make an extremely difficult business to build now impossible starting September 1! If it’s just 15%, then LET US GO! (or are you scared it’ll be more)
August 16th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
I am amazed that most of you think that Alticor/Amway/Quixtar should just roll over on this and give in to the demands (extortion?) of Woodward and his group! The non-compete clause is there to protect both Quixtar AND the IBO’s so that entire groups are not raided and taken to other competing businesses. From Quixtar’s point of view, how can you expect them to say - Sure, take our distributors and use them all to start up another business that will compete with us. That is absurd and clearly is not good business. No one is enslaved to Quixtar as Woodward would have you believe. Anyone can leave at any time without repercussions. After the 6 months non-compete clause expires (which EVERY SINGLE IBO AGREED TO WHEN JOINING QUIXTAR!!!) they are then free to do whatever they want. The only thing they cannot do is use confidential information that was provided to them by Quixtar to go back and entice IBO’s to join them. Business is business and just because Woodward et al don;t like the changes that are happening, that does not mean they can ignore the rules that they singed up under and which they also had everyone else sign up under.
That said, the tone of the communications from Quixtar is certainly degrading and unprofessional. I have no respect for the manner in which they have handled themselves throughout this event. On the other hand, Woodward and the others openly lied to propsective IBO’s in describing the relationship to Quixtar, so how can anyone be expected to believe them either?
There are many legal and ethical business opportunities out there. Quixtar and Team do not qualify, in my opinion, under either of these criteria. Coupled with the baggage that all fo this will create for both organizations moving forward, I will put my time efforts and belief in something else.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
I have to agree with a comment posted over at the forums.freetheibo.info site. Someone stated over there that it is becoming more apparent that the Corp. wants to seperate itself from the little people (IBOs). It seems the Corp. wants to move itself over to a manufacturer only and move products in a more traditional manner with retail outlets like they do in China.
I think they wanted to do it more slowly and without all the fighting but thanks to the great 15 it is all in the open and things will speed up much more quickly.
August 16th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
First off folks, you must realize that the person writing these Corporate Communications posts is none other that Jody Victor himself. At least that is the general concensus.
Second, this is the same pattern used by Amway/Quixtar that has been going around for a few years now. Remember Bo Short, Bruce Anderson, Al Leblanc, Andy Andrews (et el Team in Focus), Gerry Betterman, Brig Hart, Kenny Stewart, Don J. Lorencz, Marshall and Diana Douglas, Mike and Lynn Jakubik, Ron and Melanie Rummel, etc, etc. The list is endless.
Third, before all is said and done, there will be no more Quixtar–just Amway AND most if not all of the “kingpins” will be terminated due to unyielding pressure from the company. That after all has been the plan right from the beginning. They will either give in or be terminated and stripped of all.
Am I right Jody?
August 16th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
If it is only 15% of their, let them go. If they are that unethical, let them go. If they were breaking the rules for that long without even getting a warning, let them go. If Alticor is telling the truth, they should just let them go. Something doesn’t add up.
If Brady was unethical, why was he on the Rules/Ethics board for QUIXTAR in 2007? If Woodward was causing so many problems, why was he on the Quixtar Awards and Recognition committee in 2007. Why was Haugen on the QUIXTAR Executive Board if he was causing all this trouble? Why was Wilson there too? Something really bad must have been uncovered for ALL of the top leaders in their business would turn their backs like this.
It doesn’t add up…
If you want to know what really happened:
http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24
August 16th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
One question…teh plaintiffs state that they do not want monetary compensation. Why then would they request a jury trial (juries always award more damages than judges do)? In their demands they ask for payment for legal fees. The very next demand is, “For such other and further relief as may be available at law or equity, and that the Court deems appropriate.” To this says, we don’t want money but if a jury wants to give it to us we will gladly take it!
August 16th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
the bottom line-
no matter who ends up RIGHT if there can be such a thing, the business AS WE KNOW IT is over. Sometimes that is not a bad thing. If the FTC doesn’t try to find something wrong with Amway/Quixtar, then it will be changing the name that hurts us all. It hurts those who presented the Quixtar name ONLY during presentations and not the long history of formation, and it hurts the ones who will ATTEMPT to build under the Amway name. Surely, 95% of the people are not wrong who have said No to the name change. For some reason the corporation wants to say, concerning the TEAM issue,that they care about us and want to protect us so WHY DID YOU NOT CARE ABOUT US when we asked, pleaded for you to not change the name? Is the smear tactic out there so that come September when the name changes and business drops majorly you can then blame it on the TEAM for the destruction?
August 16th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
The childish responses that the Corporate Communications have been posting are distasteful and disrespectful to those of us who have been loyal to Alticor/Quixtar and regretable Amway.
One has to wonder the motive behind the Quixtar to speak to us as if we are children unable to full grasp the sever nature of what is happening.
I for one - (Not being TEAM) find if unthinkable to continue working with Alticor/Quixtar and was wondering if TEAM needed any new Team members?
August 16th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
It is about time all parties are getting what they deserve. Amway/Alticor/Quixtar/Dexter Yeager/ The Team are all greedy. They have manipulated millions of people. Yes I built the business with 100’s people in my group and I quit at the Founders Direct level, after finding out 2/3 of income comes from system
May be Rich DeVos, Jay Vanandel, Dexter Yeager, and Bill Britt rot in Hell!!!!
August 16th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Alticor continues to show professionalism and integrity through such tasteful words. I’m so proud to be apart of the quiet and professional side of this dispute. I’d love to see some facts proving that YOU are right and TEAM is wrong? Instead of throwing stones ,like 7 year old kids teasing the smart kid for getting good grades, why don’t you put your “business ethics” and “intelligence” to work and find something of importance. Give the IBOs and people of your company and community something to say, “Alticor has a point”. This isn’t the 70’s anymore… people can research and find information. Slander doesn’t sit well with the public or the people who know the people you are bad mouthing. Especially written in these offensive rediculous words. You are an embarassment to businesses everywhere. I hope the judge uses these captions against your “ethical business” when you meet TEAM and some of your own in court.
August 16th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
Who elects the members of the IBOIA board? Is it Quixtar or is it other Diamonds and Crowns?
August 16th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
BK, in response to Alticor “rolling over”, what about us “rolling over” and just wandering along like sheep excepting everything they want to dole out. The board was put in place so that IBO’s could at least tell the corporation how the IBOs felt about changes. Givin input, there to protect what they’ve worked so hard to build and grow. Alticor is dissolving the board. Why? They don’t give a hoot about what you think. They want their 35% profit and that’s final. If you don’t like the changes, then you have to terminate your business and income and wait for 6 months, so you can start OVER and build other business if you want. I say losing everything you’ve build is a big repercussion. The way the business stands now and the reason for the law suit is because Quixtar right now is an illegal pyramid.
If Quixtar was a viable business, then yes, the 6 months is a good practice, but it’s NOT. And this is the argument. TEAM wants to be let go because they are TRAPPED in an illegal business and this all would of been saved if Alticor would have lower it’s exorbitant profit margin. There’s legalities on both sides. We signed a non-competion clause, yes, but we also expected to join a legal business too.
August 16th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Who elects the board members? Is it Quixtar or is it the Diamonds and Crowns?
August 16th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Demands:
“For such other and further relief as may be available at law or equity, and that the Court deems appropriate.”
A jury trial???? sounds like they are looking for 12 sympathetic people to help them line their pockets a little more!!!!!
August 16th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
EVERYONE
Go place your cursor over the picture of Rich and Jay on THIS WEBSITE…what comes up……”Founded on a handshake”
Hum…..why so many rules now to keep people in?
Simple fact to judge the success or failure of a country or business….look at how many people want out verses want in….LET THEM GO!!
For the TRUTH:
http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24
August 16th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
They were there because the Yager organization has run the IBOAI for years and it needs to stop NOW.
August 16th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
If (as you say) no-one that has left ever launched a successful MLM business why don’t you let them go try??? Also, if they are only 15% of your volume, why not just let them go??
Are you scared?? And how can I join a TEAM LOS when they get things set up??
Stop being babies, and acting like communist dictators. If they wanna go let them!! And I will follow after this behavior!!!
August 16th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
They can go! But please ALTICOR, protect my business from someone who would want to take my downline that I have worked hard to build. They might talk the right talk but I know you have always walked the talk. If they want to go let them, just keep to all the rules that they signed. It protects me and mine.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
#62
The IBOIA board members are elected by profit sharing Platinums and above. The members of the board that resigned were representing their people. We lost our voice.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Cathy in Dayton Says:
August 16th, 2007 at 9:16 am
Haven’t any of these people ever read a blog before? It’s a different style of writing, so get over the “delivery” and look at the message!
If you want to read legalese, read official press releases. Bottom line: Training systems have become legal liabilities for Alticor. I keep reading about how IBOs are being punished for cleaning up their systems, but there are some pretty obvious rules laid out by the FCC and you can’t make a profit just by signing someone up. You can sell a product, but anything that remotely resembles a “finders fee” is patently illegal. To me, it sounds like some IBOs aren’t cleaning up their systems, they are trying to preserve the cash flow from these cash cows. Train us, keep it reasonable, and help us to sell products. That’s the business I’m in.
……….
Couldn’t have said it better so I’m bumping yours up.
It’s a blog not a court room or livingroom.
Get over the delivery and look at the message!
August 16th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
“Disclaimer
The authors of this blog are Quixtar employees. The opinions expressed here are not necessarily reviewed in advance by anyone but the individual authors. These opinions do not necessarily reflect the view of Quixtar or any other person or company.”
Nice disclaimer on your “start here” link. Way to completely say it’s real but then dismiss it is reflection of your business. And the fact they are called “opinions”. When will actual regulations that weren’t just made up in the past 6 days actually be brougth up and defended? Amazing how all these rules and regulations are NOW available for review. Just let them go and stop crying. Take your “75%” business and continue on your downward spiral. Team has never publically said anything to that effect except in their lawsuit(which is available) but they never claimed anything. You are defending yourself against a class action lawsuits claim… it’s almost like trying to talk to a deaf person while they sleep. NO ONE IS LISTENING. The court will decide what’s in the lawsuit is true or not. Remember, the IBOs make YOU money. Talking trash about the people they respect and the business they used to love will only increase the blow taken to your bottom line. If only the person who wrote this blog would have the intelligence to sit back and realize that “maybe i shouldn’t talk bad about the fastest growing organization working through us” or “hmm, i should have a public statment stating that we a sad to see the IBOs leave but conflict of interest have lead to this and we will be proceeding to a court case to resolve our differences”. You know, something respectable and professional. But no, Alticor and co. decided to take the high road and attack one man and his character as if he is walking plague and anyone who says his name will be forever diseased. It’s not just Orin, our entire community is with him. Talk bad about him, you talk bad about thousands. We’d love to leave you and follow him, how about you take your own advice and let TEAM GO.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
#69 Kim, TEAM is trying to make your business opportunity better. Think of lower prices? You’d get much more sales and actually be able to do your shopping and change your buying habits without sacrificing an extra $100 to buy those products to retail. The reason they want out is because the prices are so high that Alticor and co. are running Quixtar as an illegal pyramid. This will change and you’ll be better for it. Orin and co. are standing up for the little guys, the IBOs that are pushing hard to make every last bonus and buck they can while paying for expensive products. They want to make it a fair playing field.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Your downline has free will.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Name changing back to Amway?
Rich and Jay putting the make up back on?
Are they bringing back Ace and Peter?
August 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Regarding: Cathy in Dayton says:
“Haven’t any of these people ever read a blog before? It’s a different style of writing, so get over the “delivery” and look at the message!”
A little hint about communication…if the receivers are offended, It doesn’t matter whether it is just a style…Don Imus inappropriate joke was a just a style of entertainment and look where it got him.
Maybe the TEAM just has a different style of communicating the busines. Maybe Alticor should just get over it and look at their success.
If you don’t like anything I’ve written, just remember that it is a different style of writing and get over it.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
To Confused - The IBOAI board members are elected by IBO’s that are at the Platinum level and above. So organizations that have large numbers would naturally have more representation on the Board.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
to the Author or anyelse that might have it, it seems in this Blog you were able to post the 2 quixtar court docs. But the one from the IBOAI isn’t posted it is only a statement that is on the IBOAI website which i believe is added by quixtar. where is that document or did quixtar just use that has propaganda to make people believe the board is on board with all of this. They can’t possibly be on board reguardless of if they were part of “The Team” or not this has hurt all IBO’s from every place in the country. Please post the doc from the IBOAI showing they actually put a restraining order in place.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
If they are elected by other IBO’s (platinum and above) then what committee the are on has no relevance to Q/A’s decision. Q/A did not put them on the board nor did they elect them to their posts. Let’s face it…the majority of us don’t follow the rules and guidelines to the letter. We tend to look the other way when one of our downlines violates them as well. We (the majority of us) do however, attempt to build our businesses ethically. I would venture to say that we (the majority) also wouldn’t think of sponsoring IBO’s by deception and/or deceit. Nor would we teach our downlines to do the same. The majority of us would not grow our business by tens of thousands (as they have stated) knowing that we are violating federal law and/or our bread basket’s rules only to claim that they are illegal when they decide to clean up their act. If they, in fact, have believed that this is an illegal business why have they continued to promote it? They have written a book about leadership. Aren’t good morals and ethics part of being an effective leader?
August 16th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
what message? They are upset Team wants out so they want to blemish Orin’s name to make his future endevour sound worse than Quixtar. How nice. It’s like saying untrue things about someone and expecting everyone to eat it up and ask for more… or wait, that’s exactly what this is. I don’t look for messages in posts like this from companies. They have enough money to find someone to write appropriate and display their thoughts in a respectable manor. Until then it’s trash.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
TEAM is looking out for TEAM “system” money and doesn’t represent my our my interest!
August 16th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Why would anyone stay with Quixtar??
They never respond to any post re: these crazy blogs they write…they obvoiusly DO NOT care about the “little guy” because if they did they would read these and STOP with the middle school bully thing!
I just joined both organizations in Aug. and when all this first happened I wasn’t sure what to do but I keep reading these posts by Alticor and I am certain now that backing out of Quixtar is the right thing to do!! What if I made it as far as Orrin and Chris…this is what I would have to look forward to??? NO THANKS!!!
August 16th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
I am sickened that since 1999, we were “brainwashed” by Alitor that Quixtar was NOT Amway and was a completely new business. For all of these years we have gone out to the living rooms of America lying on your behalf, and now you are reverting back to the Amway name which scares off the majority of those people. Are you serious? Where is the integrity and character in that?
August 16th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Hats off to Orrin and the Team Leadership for moving mountians. After over 4 years of negotiations with Quixtar to improve their policies, Quixtar has decided not to lower their prices and on Sep 1st will revert to using the AMWAY name. Quixtar does offer quality products but at a premium price and customers at the retail level do not exist as Quixtar says we should have. Would you join AMWAY? I would not.
The TEAM is leading the way, facing the Giants. The TEAM is not about products but is about Leadership Development and making a difference.
Orrin, Chris, Tim, Randy, Billy and all the others are genuine leaders and the TEAM is going to a million people as the TEAM and not Quixtar.
Remember is was Quixtar’s choice not to lower their prices and become more competitive, it was their choice to be indifferent and their choice not to step up to the place to become a giant in the ecommerce industry.
Its obvious by the statement made by Quixtar, the writer is angry and has no posture. A true 95% thinker. Maybe you should subscribe to the Team Training System and enjoy some personal growth, unless change is not in your future.
August 16th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Great posts from Cathy in Dayton!
Way to go Alticor!
I wish you were stronger on the “reporters”.
Can someone point to an newspaper article where Amway was mentioned and the words “pyramid”, “scam”, “door-to-door” was not somewhere in the same article? Come on, the reporters consider us a joke, I say blast them harder. They have no clue.
My wife and I do 300 to 500PV in customer sales every month.
All products at retail except for Double X, which we sell for $60 to $70.
Quality and value is what we promote.
We do not waste time with people with a “Wal-Mart” mentality.
I still have not heard what the TEAM members plan to sell???
August 16th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
It’s really kinda sad when folks apparently taking sides with Corp are talking about “MY DOWNLINE” as if they had some “ownership interests” to exert - a vested interest to protect for all the effort and capital they have expended to date.
Because they then turn around and laud Ada for their efforts, I wonder if they actually understand this disagreement is exactly about that - and in a nutshell, Corp is saying “Mr/Mrs IBO, you really don’t own a thing - you’re basically itenerant “help” and have no vested interest here”.
I recall meeting an author a couple years back - think his name was Mason Weaver — and he had just written a book “It’s OK to Leave the Plantation” {now, before anyone tries to whack me for racial insensitivity, Mr. Weaver is an Afro-American (read: AMERICAN-AMERICAN) author, so in PC circles, that makes it OK for him to say}
His preposition is that folks basically fall into either the Slave mentality or the Prisoner mentality — and indicates Prisoners look to escape tyranny and oppression, while Slaves “grin & bear it”. His example: Throw a rope to a prisoner, they’ll tie a knot in the end, and climb hand over hand to FREEDOM - at the same time, the Slave looks at the very same rope and visualizes a lynching (theirs) coming.
To whit, TEAM has basically tossed a rope to IBOs - albeit winding through the legal system - it’s now up to each IBO whether they view that rope as a path to FREEDOM or a tool for LYNCHING.
Paraphrasing one very successful “PRISONER” of recent fame … “you basically don’t get what you deserve, but rather what you expect”
So … what WILL you choose to do with The Rope?
Tag - you’re it!
August 16th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
addition to previous post. The link in the address bar on the IBOAI website tells it all…the ASP shows where the information is housed “http://www.iboai.com/MediaCenter-QuixtarAmway.asp” It is housed at QuixtarAmway not IBOAI…Prove me wrong produce the actual restraining order the IBOAI is supposed to have put in the courts.
August 16th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Alticor - there is one more contract you need to terminate, and fast
August 16th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
Yes, we all know that only time will reveal the truth. But in all honesty, I don’t want to be associated with a company (Quixtar/Amway) that is so unprofessional in their PR.
The only other being that I am aware that is able to deceive and twist half truths better than this is the devil himself.
The TEAM leaders who have been presented with this so called restraining order have basically been asked not to slander the opposing party or try to influence the actions of their team members . That leaves the defendants with an open playing field to speak at whatever they want (true or false) about the Team.
Quixtar/Amway is doing a pretty good job of their own deformation of character.
August 16th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
To the Alticor blog author:
Please stop all posting until you have let your emotions settle or until you turn this blog over to someone with a more mature attitude. YOU ARE NOT HELPING OUR CAUSE!!!!!!!!
As stated on another blog: “…my message to Alticor is to find a better spokesperson for your company and win the PR fight with TEAM by being the more civil and professional in this situation.”
Get the message???
August 16th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
YESTERDAY I called Quixtar to verify if I could use Team’s tools as long as I wasn’t stacking and people knew it was Quixtar- they said Team’s tools were very good and yes I can use what has been approved by the corporation. Today my upline gets an email saying that he had 24 hours to agree to stop using the tools and going to functions or they were going to terminate him- he’s platinum–
WHAT THE HECK IS THAT!! If I am following Quixtar’s stand on stacking then how the crap am I in violation?? If this truly IS all about stacking like you say!–
HOW CAN YOU TAKE MY BUSINESS AWAY?? when just yesterday you said they were good and I could use the approved tools! So is it just dependent on your mood at the time? If Dex or Britt or any of the other big wigs tick you off does that mean you can throw out anyone dispensing tools because you are seeing that the majority isn’t lining up with what you are saying!
What happened to INDEPENDENT business owner!! You have my _ _ _ _ _ in a vice and you can change your opinion daily!!
Hmmm so does that mean that all of us who said adios to Internet (Tool business associated with Dex’s kids) because of unparalelled greed have to go back to him because HE you approve of and OF COURSE the fact that the boys (who own internet)and are inherited crown ambassadors surely don’t have THAT MUCH pull to cause you to help with that flaming ship! I think the big wigs who have for 20 and 30 years are the ones crying in Quixtar’s ear- they know how much they have lost in tool and function business due to people leaving and if that accounts for a majority of their income I can see them having a great deal of pull with Quixtar
August 16th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
It’s unfortunate that the leaders of these great businesses are acting like children with their actions and comments. The only ones that are going to be hurt by these actions are the IBO’s when our competition gets a hold of this they will use it to destroy all that we have worked for. There’s more at stake here then just issues between Alticor and the Team. The two of these groups need to sit down and fix this before to much damage is done. Great leaders go for the win win.
August 16th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Doesn’t anybody do research…. Lawsuits will tell you alot and most people dont lie under disposition because they will go to jail.
After building the business for almost 13 years, it is my opinion that Quixtar is one of the hardest businesses to build. I have watched One Executive Diamond, Two Diamonds, Countless Emeralds and Directs quit in my upline.
I have become a Millionaire in those hard to do other businesses ie real estate, traditional business, etc.
Dexter Yeager and family in the late 90’s were making $60 MILLION DOLLARS PROFIT EBITDA. Do your own research on the Kenny Stewart lawsuits….
If you are going to become rich in America you have to start thinking like Millionaires. Millionaires dont crowd arenas unless they are the ones hosting the event ie Quixtar Diamonds, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Donald Trump etc.
The Millionaire club is a lonely club because most of them are focused on their business.
August 16th, 2007 at 6:39 pm
You know the longer you (A,Q whatever name your going to choose) the more this is going to cost you, not just in Dollars, of course that’s the great indicator, but in human lives, that now have lost another Dream.
Have you guys looked at any of the elections lately? When 1 party ASSUMES their constituents are IDIOTS is when they lose elections and constituents. Problem today is that most of us (IBO’s) are more intelligent then you give us credit for. Anyway point being if you analyze what you’re doing around the globe, like in UK & ROI, May 4, 2007 (if you haven’t read it you need to go to A in UK and read it) you act, not for sure, like you’re positioning yourself to sell the Company.
Guys(Doug & Steve) have you forgotten the principles your fathers said this company was founded on and for whom it was for, the IBO, and I believe Doug I was in the Audience when you reiterated those principles.
I agree with some of the other posts, that your legal & pr staff, along with Jim Payne should be immediately Terminated for IMPROPER BUSINESS BUILDING PRACTICES(or in this case business REDUCTION practices). Now more than ever should you guys go, especially with the amount of TRUTH coming out (Letter from Ron Simmons … http://forums.freetheibo.info very first post), you going to get a restraining order on him too?
What people(ibo’s, general public that you say has a great opinion of you) are now figuring out is that if your (A, Q) house is clean and transparent, then why did you immediately file a restraining order, blast biased and disparaging remarks to EVERY IBO and why did you feel it necessary 3 years ago and without individual IBO approval or disclosure attach a no compete clause to our renewal?
Guys, (and this is why you need to terminate the real problems in your company, those named above) what you don’t get is that Rich said a long time ago, we can’t cleanup the nation until we cleanup our own bedrooms… something like that. Go back and listen to his audios along with some other really great current ones then look at your house and bedroom and realize its DIRTY!! We know it. We’re not IDIOTS!
August 16th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Wow, to say that I am disappointed with the professionalism of the comments of the bloggers on the official Alticor site, would be an understatment.
I’m not sure how you figure this kind of statement would be useful, or even acceptable to anyone associated with A/Q.
It may have started as a bash TEAM type of thing but is quickly spreading to alienate IBO’s of all organizations. How can we feel pride in representing a company that would put such a childish spin on such a serious matter at a time when professionalism needs to be at the forefront.
August 16th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Thank you for showing the world how unprofessional this company really is. I hope the world is paying attention.
August 16th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
As a beginner in this process, I became involved to provide income and more choices in my life. I was given a book called “Compassionate Capitualism” written by Richard DeVos. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t capitualism stand for free enterprise, the ability to enter the ring and try your hand at the market share. Now the compassionate side takes into effect the futures of individuals, always thinking people over process. This includes having sound foundations that everyone can win. As stated before I just want to win, if the co-founder wrote a book with understanding that the more the competition the better the product and the better the individuals, it appears to me Quixtar should encourage Woodward and the other ibos to compete. The public and the new ibo will only have a better business to come into. Non-compete clauses mean never become better. Wasn’t our country formed during a non-compete clause, but we can all talk like this because someone found a problem with it. Just looking for thoughts.
August 16th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
With all due respect Greg…….How could you think that tools that only speak of the “Team” and no mention of the business opportunity being Quixtar, would ever be approved by Quixtar???? I too called Quixtar today with the same concern, and they said not to use ANY tools unless they were approved. Uuuugh….I just purchased alot of Teams 1st night packs! To err on the safe side during this time they recommend not using the Team tools, just to be safe. That I will do, because I want to do the right thing.
I totaly understand why they wouldn’t be approved because the entire process of showing the plan, the Team only promotes the “founders of the company”….Woodward and Brady. I know they mean the company “Team” but new prospect do not realize there are 2 destinct companies….the Team which is the leadership development system and Quixtar which is the ACTUAL business opportunity. New prospects clearly are not told that distinction, nor do they know that to even ask.
Our organization merged with the Team so I have seen both sides of the fence. It is very sad because I really think the Team’s systematic organization of tools and training is outstanding however, the system was designed to build the Quixtar business. They leave that very important part out and make the focus soley on the Team. I never understood that???
Quixtar is the company that will be sued if people feel they are decieved by these actions, so of course they would have to approve materials used. That’s what we all agree to when we become Quixtar IBO’s…like it or not. Otherwise we would have all kinds of homemade “systems” promoting individual concepts.
It is really a sad state this has come to and my heart goes out to all Team, Legacy & Team 5k members who are scared of how this will affect their livelyhoods. It’s not these Team IBO’s against all other IBO’s. One of my all time favorite diamonds EVER are Chuck & Colleen Goetshcel when we had them in to our organization to speak. It is just soooo sad all the way around. We all get into this business for the same reasons to achieve our dreams. We are all more alike than different. I pray there is someway this can be resolved with out destroying everyone involved.
August 16th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
There seems to be so much diversion and mudslinging when the basic debate comes down to a few basic things. #1 Are Quixtar products high priced at retail cost compared to retail stores? If we are to have success as Business Owners we need to be able to market a product to everyone not just the people who don’t have the “Wal-mart” mentality which is very few. Has anyone researched what Walmart has in sales per year? It is proven in research that our consumers care more for reduced prices and habit then in “quality” anymore and the younger generations are not any different. I have had to sell my products to customers at IBO cost or below because people in my area can get things cheaper elsewhere and they don’t care about quality, they will not pay that much for a bottle of shampoo even at Wal-mart. #2 Will changing the name of Quixtar to Amway help or hinder all IBO’s? Anyone that is actively participating in building their Quixtar-powered business realizes mentioning Amway is similar to putting out the scarlet letter A on your chest. That is the “scam that our grandparents, aunts, and uncles warned us about.” Approximately 1 1/2 years ago even Quixtar was emphatically denying that they were Amway in their online promotions, due to the fact of their business building model being different than the original Amway one.
Doesn’t Steven Covey, a famous author and businessman and many other professionals mention that it is critical to have a win-win situation for a business to succeed and be effective. It seems to me that both Customers and IBO’s would win if Quixtar reduced their prices and did not change their name to Amway.
No matter what you believe, everyone has a right to express their opinion without being badgered or fired.
We live in a free country, with a free enterprise system. If you do not agree with how a business is run and you own the business, Independently, shouldn’t you have a say so in changing that?
And if people don’t listen, isn’t it our right and responsibility as leaders in this country to stand up and take action and do what we believe and understand through our expertise and the knowledge gained in our life that will benefit the whole group?
There are so many things that have been messed up in our country because people have chosen to stay in mediocrity, instead of fighting against what they believe to be injustices and going against the ’status quo’ to make this world a better place. I commend Woodward, Brady, and the others on taking that stand with the intention of making things better for others.
August 16th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
I am embarrassed that Quixtar has taken the stance they have taken. I thought I had joined a christian valued business and instead its looking like I am a member of Boyz in the Hood! Quixtar has the Team leadership under court order and has decided to harrass me! Anyone that has been through divorce knows you don’t have to prove anything to get a restraining order…..just make some unsubstantiated claims to the judge!
August 16th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
Would someone care to Wikipedia Caveat emptor? I think the use in this blog of that term is a little off. What words would you use to describe those who see injustices and choose to not only voice their objections but stand behind that voice, going against mediocrity and the status quo to join the ranks of many leaders throughout history. It seems that people can easily get sidetracked off the who point of the debate at hand. Are Quixtar prices to high? Will it benefit anyone for Quixtar to change it’s name to Amway? For people who don’t agree with these things, what choices do they have to change them with the noncompete clause in place? Aren’t we in a free enterprise democracy?
August 16th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
ONE MILLION STRONG BABY, ONE MILLION STRONG.
I SPENT TIME WITH TEAM, I HAVE LISTENED AND READ. MY ALLIANCE IS WITH TEAM.
ONE MILLION WITH OR WITHOUT YOU.
OH, PLEASE DON’T BE FOOLED IN THINKING THAT IT IS ONLY 15%. I MYSELF HAVE BUSINESS IN 39 STATES.
August 16th, 2007 at 11:17 pm
Jeez an Alticor web blog and 90% of all comments favor the Team.. That must really suck. If it were my web blog I think I would close it down..
August 16th, 2007 at 11:38 pm
Who is writing this stuff? Are DeVos and Van Andel asleep at the wheel? What a disgrace from a company that is SUPPOSEDLY lead by Christian families.
Since they seem to be so proud of their writing abilities in these blogs, we should have all IBO’s hand out these blogs along with the SA 4400 to prospective IBO’s, so they can see the character and integrity of their prospective business partner (a.k.a. Amway)! I’ll bet sponsor rates will go through the roof (NOT!).
Rumor has it here in Ada, MI (Alticor hdqtrs) that Alticor employees are getting tired of the legal battles, and are loosing faith in their company leadership. Who wouldn’t based on how they handle themselves publicly!
Alticor, you’ve totally lost it. No actually, you’re ABOUT to totally loose it - ALL.
August 17th, 2007 at 12:14 am
JODY VICTOR JUST LEAVE US ALONE! WE ARE NOT GOING AFTER YOUR SMALL AMERICAN BUSINESS!!
August 17th, 2007 at 12:15 am
I’ve been an IBO for 5 years with Team. I’ve read many blogs that state we (Team) are deceptive and hide Quixtar in our plans. That is simply not the case.
Tonight, I met with a new IBO at their home. They have a family member who works for Alticor. The two had dinner this week. The Alticor employee was surprised to hear that his family member (the new IBO) knew they were becoming Quixtar IBO’s while they were seeing the plan. He was suprised to hear that BOTH Quixtar and Team were talked about openly before the new IBO registered (no deception).
Quixtar/Amway PR people have spun so many lies this week, making it appear that every Team member misrepresents the opportunity, claims it’s easy money, get rich quick, and that we all stack.
Funny, none of them have spent ANY time with me or people in my organization in the living rooms of America the past 5 years explaining the business opportunity. NOT ONE OF THEM!! Yet they’re experts on what we do and say???
The Team training system teaches honesty, integrity, and doing what is right. Do you really think people are so ignorant that they would get mislead by an IBO and still be in our business 12 months later? People aren’t that stupid!
I don’t know about any of you, but I don’t like to constantly build and then rebuild. A business built on honesty is the only one that lasts. The Team model produces results that are sustainable… therefore it must be honest and trustworthy!
Alticor PR - please talk about things you know from a factual basis and quit generalizing about things you have no facts to back up. That’s called INTEGRITY.
August 17th, 2007 at 12:18 am
It is interesting that for over 8 years the TEAM and there business building approach was approved and and accepted by Quixtar, now according to them it is not? I suppose there is allot more information that I do not have, so I am not judging anyone, just a thought.
I am however very disappointed in fashion this is being handled by Quixtar, especially the very first email they sent to every IBO indicating that if you are involved with the TEAM you may be at legal risk, wow scary to the new guy.
Also as far as the none compete clause, it is my opinion that if you are involved in Quixtar and do not think it is right for you, then you are not going to being putting effort into it anyway. So why not let you do something else if you wanted to. Also it is my understanding that Quixtar put this non-compete clause in place just 3-years ago.
Also it seems to me that if Orrin Woodward,Chris Brady and several other leaders are willing to give up there income and Quixtar business to fight for other IBO’s and what they believe in, they are men of integrity driven by principles.
They should at least be respected for that and let the courts decide if what they are requesting is legally justified.
I am new to the business so I hope I have this correct but my understanding is most of the leaders involved in this mess have been involved with Quixtar/Amway allot longer then 3 years. It seems they would be forced to agree based on logic. If it was a choice of giving up there business income from Quixtar, which is probably there only source of income, or agree to the non-compete clause and continue to try and help others achieve what they have.
I will continue forward using the approved system and do the absolute best I can with what I have to work with. I believe that Quixtar has allot of great products and services, but so do other companies. I feel that you should be proud of who you work with, and feel confident that what you are doing you can do with moral values and integrity.
In the end I am confident that the truth will break thru as well as the facts.
Also I would like to note that there is way to much negative talk and incorrect statements that do not help anyone at all. I have found that positive actions=positive results.
If you are looking for a blog that has the facts right and also has a positive setting visit forums.freetheibo.info
I found it to be very uplifting for any and all IBO’s even if you are not part of the TEAM
best regards
August 17th, 2007 at 12:19 am
Hey, does anyone know…
Is Moses taking “Judas” Victor with him to the desert?
Ya’ll have a nice trip!
The rest of you better figure out what you’re going to do while they are wandering around counting THEIR money.
I know, maybe you could dig out some old cassette tapes of Orrin & Jody edifying the corporation (Amway) and the originator of the finest training system in the world (Dexter Yager) and then instead of waiting for Moses or Judas to get their heads out of their butts… you can just do what they did!
GO BUILD YOUR OWN EMPIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
{{STOP WAITING AND FOLLOWING, GO LEAD}}
August 17th, 2007 at 12:57 am
A note regarding business support materials. I see some concerns about what tools to use to build your Quixtar business. I have been made aware to only use approved tools. As far as I am concerned when I see content reviewed with a #, that has been reviewed and approved by Quixtar. So I don’t see why that would be an issue.
Also regarding the building your business and the term “stacking”.
I feel that is really a bad term to use because it is literal and figurative.
In reality anyway you build your business eventually someone is going to be “stacked” under or over someone. So I prefer the more appropriate terms “width building” and “depth building”
Both of these methods are approved by quixtar, As far as I know you just need to follow the rules regarding sponsoring, but check the rules if you are not sure.
I am not a legal geru or super business geru, but keep in mind that if you are an IBO you own your OWN business. With that being said I was under the impression I did not work for Quixtar, I work for myself and could refer to it as “my business” using approved tools and promoting Quixtar products.
Hope everything works out soon very everyone.
I am a new IBO and a little frustrated, so I hope I am not speaking out of place, I am just trying to help other IBO’s that may be reading this that are terified they are doing something wrong or illegal, PLEASE PLEASE stay informed with the right information and never give up on your DREAMS.
Best wishes.
August 17th, 2007 at 1:03 am
This isn’t a political debate..What’s with all the mudslinging. These business leaders are only human after all. The Main issues are since we are Independent Business Owner’s, why wouldn’t we want Quixtar to reduce pricing to better market products to customers. In addition, isn’t changing the name to Amway more of a hinderance to us than a help?
August 17th, 2007 at 1:09 am
Alticor, I like the style of your recent comments. Let the others complain you are not being “professional” (stuffy shirted) enough, I like the candor and straightforward talk. Keep it up.
August 17th, 2007 at 1:31 am
I suspect that Alticor with its Billions will survive this episode.
I suspect that Woodward,Brady,Wilson,Haugen,and the rest that were terminated will somehow figure a way to muddle through.
What about the single mom of three children?
How about the middle aged couple with a family that gave everything they had to this business
in the belief that it was the solution to their lack of a retirement plan?
How about the young person who decided to build this business rather than go to college?
How about us?
August 17th, 2007 at 2:31 am
Ladys & Gents….
Get ready for the real show….
I’m Not on the TEAM or part of the Team..But!
This is real and as a New Platinum this is a big deal. You see My wife now can stay home with our three beautiful kids. 9, 3, 15 months.
Huh. The extra few grand a mo makes this happen. (we live in Ca and need the extra $) How will this effect my home? Plaese Alticor fix this! We have build a wonderful business of a few hundered folks and these guys are right(Orrin & Chris). I have build a few customers, but it is a full time fight to keep them. None at retail, all wholesale! Now hear me on this… I’m a 6 figure full time sales person, with that being said, it is hard for me??? How can this be fair? The price deal is real and needs to be fixed so is this noncompete thing, AND THIS AMWAY NAME, HOLY COW CAN YOU HIT US ANY HARDER? The Quility is great but lets get real. Out of all the nice wonderful folks on our team a good part of them don’t order. ARE PRICES TO HIGH? How can so many folks be missing this? Also the stacking deal… That’s just BUll %^$#%^&& cover up to the real point. I wish I knew the TEAM better I would call some of them and tell them to build their future big don’t slow down keep the big MO going. The leaders of TEAM are right you will take your group with you! Quixtar is NOT right on this Ca law will not up hold the noncompete, TRUST ME! As for me? Take my Platinumship Quixtar I will join TEAM.
FIGHT TEAM FIGHT.
It’s easy show up and to be a patriot when the battel is over!!!
I stand with TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will fight with the men that are right. I’m a outsider but I know what they say is true.
TO ALL TEAM FOLKS KEEP BUILDING YOUR DREAM AND TAKE IT(YOUR COMMUNITY) WITH YOU. TAKE IT WITH YOU WHEN CHRIS & ORRIN HAVE PUT IN PLACE SOMETHING BETTER! OR the courts will put the company in line so we can all keep building our DREAMS.
I LOVE THIS COMPANY BUT IT IS TIME FOR CHANGE.
I hope the company hears me?? Many of us out side TEAM are for TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 17th, 2007 at 2:33 am
alls i have got to say is do onto others as you would like to be done unto you.
August 17th, 2007 at 3:41 am
HERE’S MY TAKE…
TEAM merged with Legacy with Bob Dickie, as Ceo of TEAM. A Dateline story about Quixtar brought to light that 2/3 of the money generated by IBO’s comes from the System (YouTube link omitted intentionally). This “system” puts Quixtar in a precarious legal situation. Many IBO’s don’t see the opportunity in the system, ie., write a book, sell a million copies. This has nothing to do with stacking, that’s good PR by Alticor. It has to do with Alticor protecting itself from the hungry pirahnas uuumm… lawyers that would like to sue Alticor because a disgruntled IBO didn’t make money after the first year who then discovers the real money is made with the system. Getting rid of TEAM gets rid of the system and a huge legal liability for Alticor. Business decisions like this hurt (big time!!) but it protects Alticor so it can continue doing business for another 50 years…
August 17th, 2007 at 7:40 am
#85 Olib comment kind of scares me about
“We do not waste time with people with a “Wal-Mart” mentality”
what is the percentage of people who don’t shop at Wal-mart or Meijers. If our business are going to grow we need to relate to the masses not to the upper echelon of scociety. 95% of america is just trying to survive. are we going to build a large sustainable business with only 5% or maybe 10% of the people. really I don’t know anyone in that arena. So Orrin and Chris are looking to the future of our business and listening to the common man. and now taking a stand. Sorry that Quixtar/Amway dosen’t think like that anymone. because I remember in the old days when my dad was doing amway listening to the tapes that talked about giving the common man a chance to do something with his life.
August 17th, 2007 at 8:52 am
I am still waiting for proof that the IBOAI put a restraining order in place…I don’t think it happened and quixtar can’t produce the documents…
August 17th, 2007 at 8:58 am
Shauncarter.com blog reports
“Effective October 2007, Quixtar will make some adjustments in pricing and shipping rates. Note, however, that BV:PV ratios remain the same for the coming year. In addition, there are some interesting changes to the upcoming Choices catalog.
Pricing
We’re happy to announce that most product prices will remain the same for the coming year.
Please note, however, that case-discount pricing will be eliminated, effective October 2, 2007. As our business has moved from Standard Fulfillment to Direct Fulfillment, we are eliminating the case discount. Today, most products that are offered in eaches and cases have little case volume, so we no longer have operational efficiencies in offering cases.
We continue to work diligently to minimize raw material, packaging, and manufacturing costs. These efforts, along with the elimination of case-discount pricing, enable us to implement price increases on only a few products.
Shipping Rates
It is necessary for Quixtar to increase shipping rates due to U.S. Postal Service, UPS, and FedEx rate increases as well as climbing fuel costs during the past year. Be assured that Quixtar will continue to pursue delivery and carrier options that will minimize costs. However, due to these increases, the value-based delivery rates will increase approximately 5%, effective October 2, 2007.”
Can anyone vouch for this?
August 17th, 2007 at 8:58 am
re: paradox, comment #43
Apparently Paradox doesn’t know what an illegal pyramid is…when the FTC came after Amway back in the 70’s, after years of investigation, the FTC’s main complaint was that Amway couldn’t dictate retail pricing. That’s price-fixing. Amway had to change their price list wording to “suggested retail pricing”.
What the consumer will pay is not determined by what’s in the product. It depends on the “perceived value”. That’s why Dooney & Burke gets $250 for a purse, or Gorsuch gets $1000 for jeans. Kroger-branded cheese is packaged by Kraft. Same cheese, different price. What’s the difference? Perceived value.
I am in business for myself and I determine my prices. (As I stated earlier, I choose bonus money over retail profit. I net more.) The pricing in the literature is an imaginary number…the FTC mandated that.
I know my product well enough to explain why Double X is an incredibly good deal. Do you take the stuff?
*If you take it twice/day, you will feel the difference.
*Take it for a month and check your bloodwork.
*My neighbor took it for 6 months and the lesions on her spinal cord disappeared…they decided she really didn’t have MS…
I have lots of examples about how Nutrilite has improved the health of my friends, family, and customers, but I also take the time to learn about my product. (If you just understood about whole-plant nutrition, you would be very excited to share Nutrilite.)
The reason I am excited about Quixtar/Amway/Alticor is because of the products. You don’t have a business if you don’t have a product to sell. It sounds to me like a whole bunch of people were scamming their friends into a business they didn’t believe in. The training system is supposed to be a vehicle to help move products. It sounds like the training system BECAME the product. That’s exactly what the FTC comes down on.
My diamond recently joined with others and formed a new system that is much less expensive and focuses on helping us to sell Quixtar/Amway products.
Quixtar is evolving as the world changes. I still haven’t seen a better option, and I love these products.
Besides, in a country where people will pay $4 for a pack of cigarettes, how can anyone say our stuff is too expensive??!!!??
August 17th, 2007 at 9:09 am
Alticor continues to amaze me… The company that I defended as honorable for years is proving to be anything but. I am disgusted by the way they have handled this situation. This blog is a disgrace.
Alticor could learn alot about character from Florence, Woodward, Brady, Marks, Wilson and Haugen. Statements like “looting our business”.
I am an INDEPENDANT BUSINESS OWNER… tired of the high prices and sick over the egotistical deciscion to change the name to AMWAY. I thank God that these leading men of character, who understand the importance of supporting your business partners. They recognized along time ago that Quixtar was not going to support their IBO’s and worked diligently to affect change from the inside. Quixtar simply refused to listen.
If Alticor/Amway/Quixtar would have put as much effort and time into understanding “our Business” and tried tounderstand the affects their irrational short sighted descisions were having on us, they would be wasting time fighting this battle now. But its clear here that Quixtar considers it “their business”… and not a team. Its clear from this blog they will continue in a culture of short sighted, knee jerk reactions with an eye on self preservation. My only prayer now is that on the 27th, the legal system will “unscrew” these IBO’s trapped on the AMWAY train, which is clearly a runaway.
Simply read these postings you will quickly understand that the vast majority of the respondants think Alticor has lost it. Certainly more that 15%.
Perhaps Alticor should go back and study the lessons from the American Revolution. Our Ancestors, a simple band of brave men… were revolutionaries that wanted representation from the Great English Empire if in fact that empire was going to extract money from the colonies. TEAM wants the very same thing. When the Empire refused to recognize the affects their profit driven, egotistical mandates were having on joe citizen, they found themselves in the middle of a revolution.
Hey Alticor… welcome to the consumer rebellion! Launched by Brave men and woman just as committed to our freedom as our ancestors were some 230 years ago
August 17th, 2007 at 9:46 am
When the leader stands the spines of those around him stiffen.
Orrin, Chris and the leaders of The TEAM have my undieing graditude and respect. I got in this business for the money but it was the TEAM training system that kept me in.
Where The TEAM goes - I go!
August 17th, 2007 at 10:11 am
chris: Perhaps I can help. Precisely what is it you seek?
August 17th, 2007 at 10:19 am
Hey Admin -
While you’re at it, can you share what will be the specifics regarding IBOAI’s role going forward past 9/1/07?
And just exactly WHAT is the NA Founder’s Councli, their role and how they are selected and by whom?
August 17th, 2007 at 10:22 am
Will you just let us go PLEASE?! I can not WAIT to leave Quixtar/Amway whatever your name is today that you are calling yourself. We just need to be done with all this mess. I am ready to move on and go to a million people without your company. I am so glad to get rid of this association from Quixtar/Amway!
August 17th, 2007 at 10:35 am
G: The moderator’s role is to manage comments, field technical matters and otherwise keep things running. While I can’t specifically answer your question, others are more than welcome to help you ascertain that answer. You may also want to visit the IBOAI website and blog, as well as the Opportunity Zone to find those answers.
August 17th, 2007 at 11:22 am
Follow the Money Trail….
Dexter, Bill Britt, Orrin and Chris dont give a crap about “TEAM”. They are interested in lining their pockets with crap leader techniques.
All of you LEMMINGS need to wake up and grow up….If you dont know what a lemming is here is a good definition.
The lemming is a small animal, about the size of a rat. The lemming is a strange animal with a very strange custom. The lemming, every few years, gathers together with a great many other lemmings, and they all march together- to the sea. The lemming and all the other lemmings march shoulder to shoulder and when they reach the sea they do a very strange thing: They jump in and drown. The lemming is a very strange animal and no one can understand it.
August 17th, 2007 at 11:25 am
Why do the IBOs that have been complaining for years that the Quixtar products are so overpriced as to be unsellable stay with Quixtar? It doesn’t sound like an opportunity that is going to work for you if you have believed for years that you cannot sell the product and make money.
Having read the complaint, it is pretty clear that the Team leadership blame the price of the products for their engaging and encouraging others to engage in activities that they say are illegal in the complaint. You quit if you feel you can’t legally run your business given the cost of products. You don’t break the law and then blame the supplier.
Can you show me in any Quixtar approved training material where it instructs you to perform the business activities that are illegal according to the complaint itself?
August 17th, 2007 at 11:28 am
Hey Super M - I am a part of your 39 state business! Fired UP! We stand 100% behind you (Team), warriors for freedom, for what’s right, for what’s moral and ethical.
LET MY PEOPLE GO!
August 17th, 2007 at 11:40 am
Admin:
There IS no information at the IBOAI website or recently (and I do mean recently) launched IBOAI blog about either matter - and for that matter neither is addressed in the OZ.
It is however peculiar at best to see the plethora of information regarding the formulation, history, and role of the IBOAI.
Coupled with the anxiety of your benefactors to announce the future of initiatives they see as “exciting” - it seems the Average Joe IBO would like to know what role (if any) the IBOAI will play in “the exciting transformation” since that is the organization who (according to their web site)says: “We are an independent organization dedicated to representing the interests of Independent Business Owners (IBOs) throughout North America. Every day, we are here to support thousands of families as they build financial freedom.”
Is no one @ Q* or Alticor in a position of authority prepared to answer such a basic request for pertinent information? Or is that information “not for general consumption” at this time. A factual response (or lack of same) may say more than your words.
August 17th, 2007 at 11:52 am
I agree…. with everyone that the Alticor bolg was unprofessional and it’s ’sassy’ tone is hurting the reputation of the corporation. Please stop any further scandalous posts.
I agree…. that when we all posting here do not have all the fact on either side and should remember that unless we do have ALL the facts, these are our personal opinions minus the full factual story.
I agree….with Jesus’s post #114 and he is the one to listen to. Amen.
I agree….with post # 112 Jubba….what about the single mother of 3 kids?
I agree that we are all frustrated and worried about our own business and how it will affect our families in the difficult Michigan economy. Let’s be truthful and not exagerate and be willing to accept responsibility ON BOTH SIDES so we can be IBO’s of character.
BOTH SIDES: Alticor please stop the inappropriate blogs, reconsider all the IBO’s opinion of not going back to the Amway name and do a price improvement check. I do however understand the pricing difference from Walmart……when is the last time Walmart sent you a monthly passive income check, bonuses or sent you on a trip? Who do you think pays for all that? Think about it.
TEAM: Please be truthful about you not deceiving people without mentioning Quixtar in the plan. Every TEAM member KNOWS that every Tues night open they NEVER mention Quixtar by name….not in the 1st half STP, or in the 2nd half ‘night owl’. They refer to them as the distribution/supplier. They send them home with a 1st night pack that has 2 cd’s and a book written by Chris Brady and Orrin Woodward. Fabulous training information for new prospects, and so is all of their training except for one thing……they NEVER mention Quixtar until it is time to register them and we pull out the QUIXTAR registration paperwork. That is considered deception and that is why people leave and complain to corporate and everyone else about Quixtar. It is bad PR for all of us. Let’s be proud of our training systems but not forget it is a training system (Leadership Development Training System as we call it)that was designed to build the Quixtar business.
The Team…… is self absorbed with their belief that it is all about them, “the founders of this business Orinn Woodward and Chris Brady”….There are 2 business that should be distiguished or identified at the opens 1. the TEAM a Leadership Development Training System and 2. Quixtar, the business opportunity that prospects are registering with. We don’t let people know that there are 2 different business you are refering to at the opens, so new people think it is one in the same. At opens they edify the “founders” (although Brady & Woodward were not mentioned by name at last Tues open since the split) and the “TEAM” and and I am quoting ……”We are a Leadership Development System through which products and service flow!” (No mention of who’s products and service, no mention of Quixtar at ALL.) Let’s please be truthful Team IBO’s, we know the truth. Lets recognize it is about both Quixtar the business opportunity and a good training, a Leadership Development Training System. Two strong entities, well respected by many, who cannot see the need for both to figure out a win-win for all.
Alticor….. is being self serving in changing the name back to Amway against the will of the IBO’s who are out promoting this company. I registered as a Quixtar IBO not an Amway Distributor. I don’t know the actual thoughts of all the IBO’s and neither do you, Alticor. Take a poll on the Quixtar site that will register each IBO’s # and what their vote is on the name change and please listen to us who are out there promoting your proucts.
Let’s be honest, admit mistakes, rectify them and move forward with wisdom and growth….but it starts with honest.
August 17th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
#63 Brenda in California
I never suggested that you just roll over. All I said was that you agreed to certain terms when you joined and you should be prepared to do the right and legal thing by honoring those terms if you choose to leave.
Quixtar and its practices have not changed in recent months or even years. If you feel it is illegal now, it was illegal back then, probably when you joined. I am certain that nobody ever gave you the false illusion that you could build your business under Team/Quixtar whatever and then, if you were not happy with the business, simply take everything you had built and move it to a competing business. Am I wrong on that point? That, however, is exactly what is being requested/litigated now and that so many people on this blog are asking for. Post #69 I think said it best - Protect my business and don’t allow that to happen.
I would also like to make a comment regarding the Quixtar/Amway name. So many of you are so angry that they are changing the name back to Amway. You talk about how you have for years told your friends etc that Quixtar is not Amway. The reality of it is that you are now and have always been Amway - you just worked under the name Quixtar. If you told people that it was not Amway, you lied to them. If you were told to tell people that, you were lied to by the leaders that told you that. That gets back to the topic of my original post - I don;t want anything to do with a group that lies to me and teaches me to lie (Team), and I don’t want anything to do with a business that carries so much baggage and is so extremely unprofessional in its communications (Quixtar/Amway). There are far too many legitimate opportunities out there that are not questionable (at best) from a legal perspective, that are ethical in their representations, and are realistic for the average person to build.
Finally, for those that say they will follow the Team organization if they are able to, let me ask this - what do you expect to sell to earn an income? You will have no product to sell. When new products are eventually introduced, you will either have to change the customers you have to a new product (good luck keeping customer confidence in you trying to do that) or develop a new customer base since so many of you say that you have no customers. Relying on self consumption is not legal so you have no other options. Six months won’t seem like such a long time to you as you go through the process of developing new products, during which time you will have no income from this business anyway.
If you still believe in the Team leaders, quit your Amway (I mean Quixtar) business the right way and follow those leaders in 6 months time.
August 17th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
rico #118. the post you make is correct.
See:
https://www.quixtar.com/quixtar/whatsnew/detail.aspx?ctg=9496&aid=14013&pid=4398
August 17th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
#126 Have you ever sat down and talked with Orrin Woodward?
Do you listen/read ANY educational, success, or motivational cds/books?
August 17th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
We are asked to put our name on these comments. Why doesn’t the person who posted the stupid thing put their name on the comment?
August 17th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
122…i am seeking the actual court documents from showing the IBOAI has a restraining order in. The author of this blog has been able to show the 2 from Quixtar but the one showing that the Board is also Restraining the team is yet to be seen…
August 17th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
#116 Jack, I apologize I should have been more specific.
My definition of “Wall-Mart” mentality is when the top 3 criteria for buying a product are:
1. Price
2. Price
3. Price
We certainly are interested in selling to the masses.
What we do is teach our customers, Quality, Value and a fair price.
Please read #119. Cathy in Dayton says it much better than I.
Learn about the products first, study them, read “The Little Red Book of Selling”.
We have customers from every income level.
We work with people and build relationships with them.
We ask for referrals and give discounts based on them, if they are not interested in being an IBO.
Our vision is 95% of the population is shopping from Amway. Because we offer world class quality products at a fair price that everyone will find a way to afford.
Jack maybe you know. What product will Orrin & Chris offer to the common man?
August 17th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
#111
Hey TEX, did you move in from the Ada-tudes website blog?
http://adatudes.opportunityzone.com/2007/08/14/Stacking-vs-DepthBuilding.aspx#comments
Fired up!
August 17th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
#113
We are with you “New Platinum”.
Together we can move mountains!
FREEDOM!!!!
August 17th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
#117
Hi Chris, here is the link to the temporary restraining order by the IBOAI against the “GREAT SIX” board members. Sign by the Chairman of the board!
http://www.freetheibo.com/images/IBOAI.Complaint.pdf
August 17th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
chris: I see what you’re saying now. I believe HSW was just able to clear that up for you?
August 17th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
G: I have forwarded your request to some folks here with corporate. If and when they respond, they would most likely do so on this blog. Stay tuned.
August 17th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
138 and 139, Thank you for getting me the document, does anyone have the California court document?
August 17th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
#132 Matt
Have you put in 700,000+ driving miles building your business? Have you invested 10,000 + hours to make $50,000 a year in Quixtar? Have you watched 1/2 of your business leave an arena because your diamond made homophobic comment? Have you invested $100,000+ in the System believing the hype? Have you been in the private meetings on the jets discussing the profit splits on an event? Have you ever had a conversation with Dexter Yeager? Have you had your Executive Diamond try to explain why is it good that he makes 80% of his Quixtar income from the SYSTEM.
Well I have!!!!! A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with a theory….All I am saying is do your research. The Systems have ruined Quixtar Amway. Why can Mary Kay produce so many people making good to great money? They are not ashamed of their name and they gladly drive Pink Cadillacs.
Doesnt something seem weird to you that Orrin and Chris will gladly walk away from their PV checks? IT IS BECAUSE THE SYSTEM GIVES THEM 70-90% OF THEIR INCOME. They will gladly take their lemmings to another company. Their income WILL NOT change and you will get to start over. Doesnt that sound great!!!!!
Dont waste 10 years of your life chasing a dream that makes someone else rich. You are bright for joining Quixtar for the right reasons, but they are not real. Go build a traditional business where you control everything and you will be very successful. Drive is a true asset!!!!!
August 17th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
I thank #138 for the link to that complaint. However, I noticed that it WASN’T signed by anyone. Is it actually a legal complaint or is it just pending? I know when I filed a claim in court, it needed to be signed in the presence of a notary to make it legal. I don’t see any such signatures on this. Perhaps it was posted before the signatures were obtained?
I also cross referenced the paragraphs that the restraining issue states as “confidential information” that could “only be obtained by being part of the IBOAI” against the claim filed by Orrin,et al. Without getting into it too much, 99% of the “forbidden” comments were about pricing and how it was mentioned several times that prices need to be lowered. The other 1% of “forbidden” comments pertained to Alticore owining the company that manufactures its products (Access) and how that allows “certain groups to receive more money than they should”. (You’ll have to read between the lines on what that means because I can not explain it any further without stating things that are “Forbidden”.
If you need clarification, please, cross reference the claims yourself. You will see what I’m talking about.
I guess with Q/A, it really is about the money and not about what’s best for the I.B.O.
August 17th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
HSW #138, it’s NOT signed by “the chairman of the board,” read it carefully and keep your terms straight.
August 17th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Wow- as blog postings go, this is one of the most hateful and unprofessional streams I have ever seen. I am wondering about a few things:
1. Does Dick DeVos think this is going to win him votes when he runs for office next time? Even those who are not on TEAM are being left with a bad taste in their mouths over all this.
2. Do you really think companies like Disney are going to stick around during all this mud slinging? I don’t think this is what they signed up for.
3. If TEAM is really only 15% of Quixtar’s business, why are you risking hurting the businesses of the rest of your IBO’s just to prove you are right? You are not even defending yourself, just slinging mud.
So what is the motive? To drive IBO’s out of business so you can focus on retail? or is it to get rid of the TEAM training system so you can talk everyone else into buying yours,giving the families even more profit? or is it because you are threatened by the growing numbers of those loyal to Woodward and Brady?
What the motive doesn’t seem to be is seeking win-win solutions, protecting the IBO’s who are not on TEAM, or winning your case with those who are.
For a company run by political savy people, this is amazing and dissapointing.
August 17th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
With most TEAM members complaining about the price of our products, I have yet to see any of them complain about their $50 or $60 monthly cable TV bill.
August 17th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
This is incredible. I didn’t realize how popular blogs were. I found my self here by accident after registering a new IBO this evening into our organization.
I sometimes wonder why more people aren’t successful in business but I think the answers are all right here in front of us. People spend too much time on the computer instead of building their business and learning enough about their product lines to know they are not expensive. I remeber an old CD “Compared to what.” It was a great title and a great CD and if you actually compare core line product prices apples to apples, you’ll find prices are very competitive.
We are all Independent Business Owners, but we seem to contaminate the business with our own bad attitudes and potentially ruin opportunities for people that can really use this business.
Quixtar has it’s hands full cleaning up the messes that IBO’s create. “If people are involved, it will never be perfect.” My upline has always taught us to do the right things. They are great leaders and have always been extremely open in all aspects of the business. Maybe that’s why we are accredited.
Just a word to the wise - Go build your balanced businesses and study your products closely. What other people do - does not effect you, unless you let it.
August 17th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
rnffemt: Your comment was heartfelt, and we’d like to post it; however, we’ve been asking that comments be approx. 2-3 paragraphs, give or take. If at all possible, could you try to resubmit a shorter version?
Folks: Another day for this moderator. G’nite.
August 18th, 2007 at 12:21 am
Jeffrey,
who has cable? No time for that! Or would I ever want to waste my $$ on such worthless junk.
August 18th, 2007 at 1:08 am
What’s all this really about? Why go back to “Amway” when it’s such a negative name in the mind of Americans? Why spend all the mony and take all the time to go through legal paperwork and proceedings to bring back “Amway” and replace Quixtar. Why not lower the prices like the IBOAI board has been recommending for years?
Two things come to mind.
1) Doug DeVos is running for governor. Any press is good press for a politician. He’s head of what company? Quixtar? How about Amway instead? In Michigan, Amway may have a better name than the rest of the US. If he’s head of Amway, that’s a 50 year legacy, at least as of 2009. That’s a lot better than saying head of Quixtar - which isn’t as widely known! What a great political move. Force the name change on the IBOs, get press for it, and be the head of a 50 year old company.
2) Rich DeVos founded Amway, not Quixtar. What legacy would there be for Rich if the company stays with the Quixtar name? Rich and Jay were very proud of Amway, and it had to hurt to change the name to Quixtar. But it made things so much better for us in the field. They always seemed to want to make it better for the people in the field, but their sons didn’t build the business and were not in the field, at least as far as I know. So they don’t know what it’s like to show this to people and have them turn you down because of the company name. Back to the theory - is this just a way to “honor” Rich DeVos so that in 2009, a 50 year commemorative celebration could be held for the company started by Rich and Jay? If the name is Amway again, it’s easy to identy it as a 50 year old company. If the name stays Quixtar, well the name recognition isn’t there, and certainly the press isn’t either - which brings me back to point number 1!!!
August 18th, 2007 at 2:29 am
Don’t worrY Altico we’ll post it on other blogs where MORE people will see it LONG TERM.
#148 IS MORE THAN A 2-3 PARAGRAPHS WHAT’S UP?
FEELING THE HEAT…
RESIGNATIONS ARE COMING!!!!! NOW YOU HAVE UNTIL SPET 12 TO FIND A NEW JOB!!!! BETTER START LOOKING ALTICOR EMPOYEES….
August 18th, 2007 at 2:36 am
http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24 here’s the real story…
NO MORE TREATENING E-MAILS BY QUIXTAR, PLEASE STOP TRYING TO INTIMINDATE US…
August 18th, 2007 at 3:40 am
#142
Chris, here is my second attempt to provide you with the requested CA court documents.
link.http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Woodward_v._Quixtar-Stamped_Complaint_8-9-07.pdf
Thanks for the advise #145 rdknyvr.
To set the record straight:
The Chairman of the Oversight Committee and Chairman of the Hearing and Dispute Committee of the IBOAI, signed the temporary restraining order submitted by the IBOAI against the “GREAT SIX” board members.
August 18th, 2007 at 4:09 am
Hey Super M thank-you! We are blessed and highly favored…
What I love about the Team is the integrity,I hope for ALL IBO’s who are making up their minds on what to do, that you will seek wisdom out.
I can only say as a Team member, I see not just a group of men building this business…but people who are men of conviction and truth!
My family stands with the Team because how they hold fast to their convictions and to His truth! And the ladies of these fine men…Thank-you! You are in our prayers too! God Bless you all!
August 18th, 2007 at 4:51 am
#147
Jeffrey, in response to your comment:
Most TEAM members can’t identify themselves with it. Instead of paying for cable or dish many invest in themselves and media that helps them grow. You don’t get free by watching TV.
August 18th, 2007 at 5:20 am
I am a little confused about something. If TEAM has been breaking the rules for all of these years and Quixtar has been trying to get them to change their ways, then:
1. Wouldn’t the big leading IBO’s from the organizations outside of TEAM be aware of this, especially IBOAI members?
2. If this is so, why would these leaders from organizations outside of TEAM be jumping on board to use the TEAM system?
This really doesn’t make any sense to me. Let’s take our huge organization and involve it in an illegal training system, jeopardizing everything that we have built up over many years.
THAT SOUNDS LIKE A REAL SMART THING TO DO!!!
August 18th, 2007 at 5:24 am
In reply to #147
That is because we don’t have a cable bill. We choose not to fill our heads with all of the negative stuff that is on cable. At least check out the TEAM system and teachings before you make a judgement one way or the other.
August 18th, 2007 at 7:36 am
106 -KNP
Have you watched Chris Brady’s DVD - SHOWING THE PLAN WITH DOT 1 STEP. I may be wrong and missed it but no where did I see or hear any mention of Quixtar. Even on the THREE TRENDS CIRCLES he starts out with the name TEAM! His first leg goes 10-20 deep visually (agreed he does mention you can do a second), Now perhaps he does in followup or later mention Quixtar prior to signup that I do not know and I hope he does.
Anyways got to go STP before going to our monthly seminar. You don’t see me on these blogs much. Maybe if more people build their business instead of spending time on their computers they would be successful as well…
August 18th, 2007 at 7:42 am
#148- KRD
Couldn’t agree with you more. Only saw this sight by accident. Blogs I guess are blogs for some people venting I guess. Went through the 70’s and 80’s Canadian issues (illegal pyramid and tax evasion areas) and survived and we will probably survive this latest upheaval as well.
August 18th, 2007 at 7:52 am
I congratulate all of you who can build a retail business regardless of pricing and the negative public reaction to the name Amway.
I’m concerned for all of you who depend upon the income from your business because of your potential loss due to the conflict and name change.
I think we need to ask questions.
If people aren’t telling people that it is Amway or Quixtar when they show the plan…why?
If people are building the business a different way, why do they need to or want to?
Whichever side your on, if you were given the responsibility to fix the issue with the other side and termination were not an option, what would you do to fix it?
It has been said that when we have an issue in our lives it is because of extenuating circumstances. When someone else has the same issue it’s moral failure.
August 18th, 2007 at 10:18 am
Blogging is fine. If we have complaints, it may be more effective to contact Quixtar directly through phone calls and emails to their customer service representatives and let them know that we are concerned about the name change, pricing, etc.
Deal with people in the company directly instead of an impersonal blog.
August 18th, 2007 at 11:23 am
You know, I really admired all the leaders that have recently gone down…having listened to their CDs/read their books/seen them at seminars. Is it possible that there is partial truth in each side’s story? Quite possibly, and the extent of that we may not know…
Nonetheless, it seems probable to me that the heart of the issue is centered around training and appropriate business building strategies. There is obviously significant arbitrage income available through ‘Tool’ money and unfortunately it is probable that many of the leaders listed became unwilling to remediate any inappropriate claims or strategies, instead favoring to keep the training income. Hence, Quixtar Accreditation. Has anyone seen the Accreditation bonuses available to only a select few organizations, based on having their materials legally compliant with the Corporation? Perhaps the leaders that have attempted their coup de etat were about to have their feet held to the fire with respect to the redistribution of that income. As it has been said, “Absolute power corrupts absolutely.” I am proud to be part of an Accredited organization and yet I feel for all the IBOs disaffected by the recent events.
To the folks at the corporation…a little decorum please. While none of us were privy to the parting shots by either party, I’d ask that in deference to every IBO who is still proud to be affiliated with the best passive income opportunity in the free world, please, please communicate in a professional manner and without the incidious tone.
To any IBO who is reeling from this, “All things will work for the good…”
August 18th, 2007 at 11:34 am
Congrats I am excited, Thanks You Orin,
This is not any different than my Medical job. I did medical sales and had to switch Employers at one time a while back and it is funny to see all they do in those times. Gosh it is worse than what you talk about via Team and Quixtar issues. If people need to wait six month to switch so be it. Orin should have thought about that before pulling the lever. Man Medical Employers are all over you like you would not believe with trade secrets and account tips from hospital to hospital. Man they will throw a law suit at ya fast in that arena. This is no different! The only sad thing is it sounds like Orin is not sticking it through to see all the changes that he help get rolling along with others not bailing to soon on the board. These North American guys are not going to let these guys make all these silly claims and then not go ahead and fix them. Problem is these were already in the works. Actually I think Orin just single handedly made the best fix to Amway that they have seen in since the 80’s or speed it up fast. First it was fix the tools and they did and now we need retailable items at a bargain and price cuts, well here it comes. Seriously the skeptics might still say what ever but they have reached the pinnacle in what all critics have always asked for and are getting it. What you did not here at all is why orin tool system did not want to reform like the others on the board. Enjoy that Team guys. What to complain about next? I am excited for the future of where they are going with all this. Just watch, Orin might end up getting reinstated and a mend made if he fixes his tools and depth issues just like everyone else. If not he sure has an up hill battle since the Corp heard the people and has made and started making the changes. I heard prices are changing. We are going to have good competitive retail products and they are keeping the yearly $20,000 Q-12 Bonus for the 07-08 year. Just do the math. $50,000-60,000 for platinum income is a part-time good paying deal. I am stoked. In any civil war the end is usually is better than the past. Thus we have America and Amway:)
August 18th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
jeffrey,
you might be interested to know that many, many TEAM members don’t even have cable…or watch tv for that mattter. after listening and reading the kind of materials that our leaders recommend ( note that I said recommend, NOT force on us ) we find that the negative, nonsensical junk on televison loses it appeal. what a waste of time 98% of television is. if you like it, that’s great, but don’t assume that we all do.
when is the last time that your life improved because you watched any of the marginally moral stuff that Hollywood want us to fill our minds with ? escapism after a trying day ? sure. but useful or truly good for us ? not so much. many of us read ….a lot… and find that our lives are benefited by that many times over.
August 18th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
Wendy D You made it clear as a bell, I wish everyone could stay to the facts.
KRD I built a 9-4-2 Business and you are spinning plates and people would drop off and you replaced then with new people. We used the APPROVED Depth Building method and the NEW IBO made more money loved the way the business worked. If Quixtar (sorry) Amway does not want Team than just let IBO’s say if they want to stay or leave and the accredited groups can all meet at Denny’s and have dinner together. (sorry again, when after 13 years your treated like Quixtar treated us you get mad.
August 18th, 2007 at 3:01 pm
For those who do not know Orrin,Chris & Tim - you can not possibly know how much integrity,commitment & caring they have for the TEAM and the belief that we should live a life of honor, respect and what is right in God’s eyes. We have been in the business 4 years.
Without them saying a word, we have heard them talk many times,we know their hearts - we do not know what went on behind closed doors, but we trust them. They have EARNED our respect and loyalty. We are proud to be associated with the TEAM.
August 18th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
I’m a bit confused at all the hoopla and chanting “let my people go”. I wasn’t aware that Alticor/Quixtar was forcing or coercing anyone to stay as a part of the organization. You may resign your business at any time with no penalty. You must, however, remain bound by the 6-month non-compete clause. How is this being forced to remain with the company? Honestly, both sides, as well as most of today’s society, need to learn to accept responsibility for their own actions.
August 18th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Lloyd & Mary Ann (TEAM) #166,
What level are you at?
How much tool profit do you make?
Are you aware a poster on another blog says his Platinum told him they make more on tools than Quixtar?
Is this how YOU show the plan?
How does this fit into your understanding of these folks’ “integrity, commitment, caring, honor, respect, what is right in God’s eyes, knowing their hearts, what really goes on behind closed doors, pride of being associated with TEAM, etc?
Caveat emptor, indeed.
August 18th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
You guys will post all the garbage you want, but when i send one in thats truthful, you don’t post it. Stand in line Mr. Moderator, you will fall too.
August 18th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
ALTICO MEDIA ADMINISTRATOR: Some of us not party to the complaint are being damaged by Quixtar by sending us threatening e-mail to resign or ammend our IBO agreement. Is this right for the Quixtar Corp to treat people who are not involved in the complaint so harshly?
Why are they doing this to us?
August 18th, 2007 at 7:49 pm
Folk’s there is history here.This is not new to how Amway has been operating for sometime.They fell into operating this way with the formation of Dexter Yager’s System.
Rich Devos tried to persuade(in 1980’s) the distributor leaders(Yager) to not focus so much on the system and the money it generated because it was causing problems(lawsuits) in the field.I do not know the details of how Devos persuaded(forced) Yager but it worked.It worked so well product volume dropped significantly.Thats when I think Amway(Devos and VanAndel)
realized how much the Yager System helps product flow.Amway and IBO leaders(Yager) reached an agreement of a “hands off” attitude concerning how different organizations were being run.However,and here is the CLINCHER,on paper the rules and regulations were written that Amway knew was not necessarily being followed to the letter.This was their insurance policy when needed for any reason,real or when it suited them.Volume increased over the years creating huge organizations and money,alot of money for the Devos and VanAndel families.Some IBO egos(Diamonds under Yager) got out of whack .But,Amway/Quixtar held the Ace of Spades,they could terminate any IBO who did not go along with their(and Yager) kingdom using the written rules as their leverage for termination(including Diamonds).Remember,it was “hands off” by the corporation unless they chose otherwise.There have been many Diamonds and above who have been terminated.Some for probably good reasons but I believe most for the benefit and ego of certain people(Yager)who now towed the corporate line.
That brings us to today.Orrin and Chris built The Team system that worked better than most, maybe all.Built huge,loyal organizations.Florence,Haugen and Goetshall join the Team, great leaders(former Yager System Diamonds).Why?because Orrin and Chris built a streamlined system that works,but more importantly they found them to be humble,servant men of character. Quixtar benefitted from it by moving alot of product thru these organizations.Which was great until Orrin and Chris, I believe wanted to make this business better(lowering prices) for all IBO’s and tried to get the Corp.to listen.After falling on deaf ears,finally decided they had no choice but to part company(loosing alot of money because of their decision)They tried to do it amicably but remember who holds the Ace of Spades(Quixtar).I could be wrong but something tells me Dexter Yager and his sons might be happy about this. .
August 18th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Most bloggers agree that Quixtar products are priced too high, making products uncompetitive in the retail market (forget about the argument about better quality items… the majority of people don’t care).
Check out this website link! It gives more facts and gives each of us a great opportunity to voice our opinion!
http://www.amquix.info/quixtar_affidavit.html
August 18th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
Caveat emptor is correct… I believe that #19 “just the facts” stated it best with his comment: “Wow, Amway, I am really disappointed”
I too am disappointed. I received criticism and ridicule from friends and family for years because of that name… I loved (meaning I used to love) the company. I was proud of my association with a company that tried to ALWAYS do the right thing. Now I am ashamed of that same company. Even though I have not been an active business builder for some time now, I have still enjoyed many of the products. That has stopped. I will purchase no more.
I guess what I am saying is that I just expected more from a company. Regardless of what they believe TEAM to do that negatively affected the business (which I cannot see), I had hoped to see a PROFESSIONAL, not a personal notification from the company. I am beyond disappointed… I am done. This is sad for me to say with nearly 12 years of enjoying the products and the INTEGRITY training.
Each of you have to make your own decisions, but I cannot stay with a company who acts like an animal that eats its own young to make sure that it is the only one left to procreate.
August 18th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
After receiving my newest “threat” email from Quixtar last night, all I could do is laugh and think, what a farce! What type of Corporation would alienate their own customer base!
Can you imagine any other company doing this to those who they “VALUE” the most (ya right!).
‘Hello valued business partner/customer, we haven’t found that you’ve done anything wrong, but that doesn’t matter. Stop doing what you’re doing (even though we haven’t found anything wrong) or your business will be suspended on Monday’.
For those of you who agree with their tactics, what makes you think the SAME thing or worse won’t happen to your business at ANY time, WHENEVER they feel like harassing you and your downline for no reason!
This is America. There’s due process in this country (unless of course you’re Quixtar - which seems to mean you can ignore your own documented processes and rules!
WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD EVER WANT TO BE IN BUSINESS, OR DO BUSINESS, WITH A COMPANY WHO TREATS THEIR ‘VALUED’ BUSINESS PARTNERS THIS WAY?!?!?!?!?!? WHY INVEST HOURS BUILDING YOUR BUSINESS WHEN THEY CAN MESS WITH THE MINDS AND EMOTIONS (AND CHECKBOOKS) OF GOOD, HONEST PEOPLE IN YOUR DOWNLINE.
Doesn’t this whole fiasco remind you of another Watergate…. actually a good term might be Ada-gate!!!
August 18th, 2007 at 10:41 pm
Who is Running the PR for this company?? Are they letting their 13 yr olds post the blogs? I can’t beleive that any company would post these things with such unprofessionalism. Next thing they’ll resort to calling Orrin and Chris “booger flickers” Come on Guys, Grow Up.
August 18th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
Anyone remember all the hubbub that was in the media a few years ago, when a French newspaper published a headline about the stinkin’ spineless lying deceitful leader of France? Creating/using legal loopholes to force his will on an organization, disrupting the due process of law, using scare tactics and slander to discredit good leaders, etc…
Well, it’s time to resurrect that phrase…
ALTICOR EST UN VER!!!
August 18th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
Amway: All Eyes on the Isles…
You might understand the reasons behind some of the changes we are seeing if you look at another blog: under Amway, not Alticor. “All Eyes on the Isles” talks about the name change and (even better) “You Wanted to Know” sheds some light on why the TEAM events probably came to a head.
Amway, Network 21 & BriTT Worldwide are facing regulatory action in Great Britain by the equivilant of our FTC. Network 21 and Britt are being called to task for their systems, and Amway is included because the British government says they have a responsibility to approve system materials! Amway is trying to avoid trial, so they are offering remedies, and stating that this has to happen worldwide.
The post is dated May 23, so that explains the timing of some of the things I’ve seen. Our leaders formed a new system back in February because they were fed up with the old way of doing things. Amazingly, our training costs have dropped by at least 50%, and more of the money flows down to the platinum level instead of padding big pin pockets. It makes sense, IF you want to make you money from Amway, to help offset business-building cost of Platinums so more of them survive and build steady businesses. That’s what makes a Diamond a Diamond!
Quixtar/Amway is a great product supplier. Our upline is getting the system part right. It sounds like we needed a purge of bad practices and that never comes easily. Change is good sometimes…
August 19th, 2007 at 3:43 am
Where are Orrin and Chris’s blogs that IBO’s can ask them the same questions that are being asked here? I would like to see “free speech” on that side also, not just the Quixtar site. Does the TEAM offer that, or not?
August 19th, 2007 at 5:22 am
I went to the TEAM website
.
http://www.the-team.biz/
.
last week when all this insanity started. And my husband and I noticed about how there was no reference to Quixtar or the products on the site.
.
Well tonight, I looked at the website again and the copy had changed! I thought maybe I had lost my mind.
.
So I went to Google and I used the Cache feature, which holds old pages. And sure enough, I saw the original page again.
.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:pN2zUULBc5YJ:www.the-team.biz/+orrin+woodward&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us
The changes:
.
The Product Showcase went from Dale Carnegie’s book How to Win Friends and Influence People, to XS “A Quixtar low-carb exclusive”
.
Their Conquer-Fortify-Domesticate mantra added the word “Quixtar” before the word “products” in the bullet point “Domesticate – Flowing Products Through the Community”
Veeeery interesting…
August 19th, 2007 at 10:13 am
Another spactacular statement from the Corp. NO CLASS! I cancelled my ditto today and I will not be using any more Amway products.
August 19th, 2007 at 10:55 am
In reference to your immature statement “You should make sure that every person they claim is a plaintiff in their suit actually is a plaintiff in their suit. We already know that one of the people they told a reporter yesterday was suing us… isn’t. Oopsy”
Fred Harteis knew…He knew all about the lawsuit as well as all of the other Associations that had recently merged with TEAM. You see, there’s a bigger picture no one is talking about. Hey Quixtar, what if a new opportunity arises where a consumer can purchase goods directly from the manufacturer at Wal-Mart low prices AND generate a residual income doing it? Hypothetically speaking, what if The Kroger Co. (who owns Ralphs, Food4less, etc.) showed up on the scene with an Independent business opportunity similar to Quixtar? Hypothetically speaking, what if all of the Associations who merged with TEAM did so knowing that this type of opportunity was on its way? Hypothetically speaking, what if Fred Harteis in all is wealth didn’t want to have to rebuild his empire under this new opportunity? It would seem that Quixtar would make every attempt to discredit their competition and Orrin Woodward is Leading the Consumer Rebellion.
August 19th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Re: TEAM’s legal claims
I am still trying to fathom the logic of TEAM’s claim that the products they have been selling for decades are now too expensive.
If you are a student of history, you know that a very effective tactic to get people to stop questioning the leadership is to make someone else the demon. The USSR managed to keep its population under control for years partly by keeping them scared of the US. Politicians try to scare us against the opposing party so we vote for them. TEAM was getting pressure from Alticor to change, so they decided to make Alticor the bad guy.
If Quixtar lowers prices, the money has to come from somewhere…the bonus schedule? Research and development? Product quality? Higher shipping and handling? Where’s it gonna be? It’s not magic!
(I personally like selling & using high quality products. It’s cheaper in the long run.)
If you think things are expensive, ask your upline where all the system money is going. Why can’t you download materials instead of buying CDs, videos & brochures? Technology is changing the game. Make them play by the new rules. They control Supply, but you control Demand (Econ 101). Your wallet is often the most powerful vote you have. Don’t be afraid to use it.
August 19th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
I tend to be more emotional than logically. But some of my corporate logical training is kicking in here. Would y’all agree there are some changes going on? Are you familiar with the principles taught in Project Management regarding the Stage of Adjusting to Change? Starts at with the OLD WAY and moves through > Denial (trying to maintain the status quo) > Resistance (anger, frustration, apathy, conflict, passive or agressive behavior) > Exploration (looking at options, seeking solutions, ask for information & referrals) > Commitment (successful adaptation to new environment, know what my options are and I’m ready to move forward > and ends with NEW WAY always look ahead … be clear on your objectives. And then be prepared for the next change cycle to come around, because it will. Change is a constant part of life.
We all have the responsibility to be a Change Agent as we manage this change in our lives. These are the predictable and necessary states of team development: 1. Forming (Issues: inclusion and trust), 2. Storming (Issues: power, control, and influence), 3. Norming (issues: affection and intimacy), 4. Performing (no major issues), 5. Adjourning (loss and separation, lessons learned, closure) >>> move forward >>> adjust to change.
All the best to each of you as you manage through this change and come to the decision on how you want to move forward. This comes from the book, The Ultimate Gift by Jim Stovall “I finally know that joy does not come from avoiding a problem or having someone else deal with it. Joy comes from overcoming a problem or simply learning to live with it while being joyful.” There is another story I turn to during challenging times called, “A Picture of Peace” which is about a King who offered a prize to the artist who would paint the best picture of peace. You can google on ‘A PICTURE OF PEACE’ and read it if you’re interested. Change is the one constant in life. Peace and joy be with you and yours as you manage change all the days of your lives …
August 19th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
mab #179, no it doesn’t exist because Orrin and Chris refuse to be a part of mudslinging and slander…..oh, not to mention the fact that they have a gag order on them that prevents them from defending themselves so the only way that they are able to do it now is in a court of law.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
Over the years, I have heard company employees publicly praise and thank TEAM for doing such a great job and being such a great organization. Were your minions lying then or are they lying now? It seem odd that after years of public and presumably private encouragement, TEAM’s system has suddenly become so wrong. On the Quixtar site there is a section entitled Reputation Resources. This section states that the reputation building effort is composed of three elements, visibility, credibility, and responsibility. From what I have seen so far, there is plenty of visibility but no credibility or responsibility.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Caveat Emptor???
Maybe more like :
“Cui bono?” (To whose profit?)
August 19th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
It is unfortunate that the bitter, sarcastic tone of this message detracts from its credibility. Most reading this are hopeful that the corporation is in the right, and only want that to be confirmed. Anything seeming to come out of bitterness is perceived as somehow biased by anger. Please, for the good of the business, have such messages proof-read professionals of good Christian character before posting.
August 19th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
I appretiate the comments of Husband&Father, Think, and Freeme. There appears to be alot of heart in their thoughts. What I believe this whole debate has created is thinking individuals. I have seen and heard of ibo’s being threatened last month with severe actions against their ibo-ship by Quixtar and yet this month, being asked to stay on board the ship and Quixtar, now Amway will help them succeed. Kind of “scare mentality”.
What about “abundance-mentality”? As the distraction continues with Quixtar’s charge against the “TEAM’s” practices and “system”, there is something bigger here. Is there not enough for everyone? There in lies the question. You could say this is a David and Goliath struggle, but more like David and Saul struggle. One is appointed King and stands head and shoulders above the rest. In the MLM world, Quixtar/Amway was king. All look to him as the model for strength and righteousness. He even acquired and armor-bearer called David. Someone outside both of them Samuel, likely the economists of today, said that the servant of one will be King. Did that change the servant? no. It did change the current king, he did everything he could to destroy the servant. Yet, David fought the giant (negative web) and consistantly went to war for Saul. After constant attempts to “get rid of” David for doing what is right, my prayer is Quixtar does not go down like Saul due to selfish thinking Well you know the rest of the story. you choose who is right. But at the least, think.
We love yah, David and his mighty men!
August 19th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Did Quixtar really give ultimatums for IBOs to leave the TEAM? What will happen if TEAM are “Leading an IBO Rebellion”? What happens if suddenly thousands of IBOs under TEAM, Legacy, et al resign.
Is Quixtar really going to take all of them to court and sue for a clause that wasn’t in the the orginial agreement the IBO signed? That Quixtar didn’t inform us of until after we signed the paper? (I know it’s the IBO’s responsibility …yada….yada…yada….It the uplines responsibility to inform them….yada…yada….yada. They left themselves an out. Who believes that most IBOs would catch the legalize after the signing.)
If there is a mass uprising and Alticor sues the IBOs who break the after-the-agreement contract, how will the legal costs affect IBO bonuses, PV,BV, etc. Maybe Alticor will make enough selling Gurwitch products retail to pay or it.
What happens when there are thousands of ex IBOs setting around for a 6 month waiting period filling the web with negative blogs about Amway or exposing every perceived weakness of Alticor. Even if Alticor wins…they lose at the expense of every Amway IBO who stays.
August 19th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
I was happy to read about the action taken by
Alticor. I have been a long time member of
Amway/Quixtar. I was subjected to the marketing
plan of TEAM, and was very displeased with what
I saw in the presentation. In fact I wrote to
the company legal department about what I saw.
I follow what Cathy said about selling, however,
I do sell at a retail prices as I think the products are worth every cent. I do count the
volume that is bought by customers and give thank-you gifts.
The company was the same as far as I was concerned no matter which name Amway/Quixtar.
August 19th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
mab -
Through the use of restraining orders in “friendly” courts, Q* is attempting to become the only voice heard - that’s why the “the other side” is not weighing in (of course since they’ve actually read the Carnegie book - they may have decided if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all). Such civility appears unilateral, doncha think?
August 19th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
Loyalty is Character!
I was blessed to attend the “Go Diamond” convention in Atlanta earlier this year. One of the most magnificent speeches was given by Pastor Robert L. Dickie.
It was all about “Loyalty”. I asked myself then: How loyal are you and what are you loyal to?
At the time I new I was following my mentors in the business. I knew I trusted them. I knew that I was never let down by them in the past during all these years of relentlessly building my business.
I identified myself with Pastors explanations of loyalty that needs to be earned, that is based on true principles and that can be lost again. But at that time it didn’t understand the depth of his talk. Today I do!
Today is the time! The time is now. Do you all realize that we are ready now because of what we believe in? We are at a moment in time were we are chosen to do right. We have the chance now. When the heat is turned on in our lives, our loyalty is tested. What are we loyal to? What is our price for loyalty?
Without loyalty we can’t win. “A house divided against itself will fall”. No TEAM can grow beyond the level of its internal relationships. That is what makes us so different. That is what others on the outside have a hard time identifying themselves with. They have not experienced a leader like Orrin Woodward
who is willing to give himself up for a common cause that is much bigger than him. Even if I am just a small part of the big picture – my participation will will be one more piece to the puzzle. It is better to die on principles than not to live at all. Do not sacrifice your permanent for the immediate!
“He is not a fool who will give up things he can not keep for the things that he can not loose”.
We are people worthy of freedom because we determine not only to be free we also help others to become free.
FREEDOM is the cause.
Trust in Orrin and trust in our leaders. They have us in mind!
SOL 285 “Loyalty is Character”
August 19th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
I’ve read the “gag orders”. It seems that they are against Orrin and Chris (maybe the other13). But the TEAM has a lot more leadership than that. Where are their voices? Do Orrin and Chris have them under sequestration? I know not every one on the TEAM has to agree with Orrin.
August 19th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
Lisa (et al): Jody Victor is not the author of this blog, nor has anything whatsoever to do with it. If you’d still like us to publish your comment, we will, but please know that (a) it’s not Mr. Victor and (b) we’d ask that you shorten it.
August 19th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
Yes, rico, Quixtar really did give us ultimatums. I received mine at 7:52 pm on Friday. Makes you wonder what is going on, doesn’t it?
I for one and totally stunned. It’s as if Quixtar management has all gone insane. I cannot for the life of me figure out why this company would treat LOYAL, rule-abiding IBOs like this. The ultimatum letter does not point to any specific rule we are violating.
All I can say is, you loyal Amway/Quixtar fans should be careful. Something weird is going on in those buildings, and I suspect it has nothing to do with what is best for IBOs.
August 20th, 2007 at 12:02 am
I have been an IBO for 10 years, and have had some success in marketing the core line products at retail prices (more specifically my wife has) and at building some depth. We were marketing 200-300PV of products each month in the last few years and found the repeat sales were difficult to achieve unless there was an great deal of face time with the customer. We have recently moved our home and my wife changed her job and almost all of the customers left since we lost the face time despite repeated phone calls, emails and face time at their homes. The products can be retailed, but the time and energy to do so was not profitable for us with full retail mark-up and a 15% bonus bracket at the time. We had $10,000-15,000/yr in sales before taxes and shipping and over 30 customers at any one time. And we did report the sales to Quixtar per the IBO rules each month. The $ made on product sales did not cover the operating costs, never mind the training system costs.
We also were using a depth building strategy with a non-Team organization and had about 50 in depth at the largest point in our main group, outside of our other groups. But the only persons who ought the products are who were on system and those who did not listen to Cds or go to seminars had PV close to zero. They viewed the high priced products as an extra expense, not a changing of their shopping habtis at $ for $. Product pricing for IBOs was a concern for almost everyone we registered.
We have shown 100s of plans, cold contacted 100s of people, been to 100s of seminars and leadership events, 1000s of tapes/cds & bought into the system and did all that we know that we could. I am glad to here than the IBOAI was pushing for changes, but disappointed that major IBO leaders decided to leave the business they have been a part of for years since they could no longer in good faith continue their affiliation with Alticor/Amway. Something is fudamentally wrong if these IBO leaders are leaving and I have heard in person all of these IBO leaders speak at various training semiars over the years. Very recently our upline recently joined the team system back in June 2007 and now our affiliation leadership in Team is going their separate ways away from Alticor. Me, my wife and our group are very confused and we feal like we don’t know who to trust. If either or both of the alligations from either side are true, I am sick to me stomache.
August 20th, 2007 at 1:14 am
Can we talk about quixtar Accredidation?
August 20th, 2007 at 5:00 am
I am writing from the following perspective: I have been a distributer/IBO with Amway/Quixtar since 1996;achieved the Platinum level in 2002 after several years (and in large measure buying the last 2 months of qualification);have spoken at BDS’s both nationally and internationally;am no longer building the business; and have been a practicing attorney for many years.I am not personally familiar with the TEAM leadership teachings so my remarks regarding them are general and on the basis of my experience with the training systems and methods to which I was exposed.I have reviewed the Complaint filed by Team-affiliated IBO’s and others as well as the comments filed by Alticor Corporate Communicator.
Whether or not there is ultimately found by the court to be a basis for granting the relief sought is anyone’s guess.However,that aspect of the complaint asserting that the products are so highly priced as to be both unsellable and in many cases not affordable by IBO’s themselves resonates in my experience. I believe company owners and representatives knew or should have known this, but I don’t frankly think that they much thought about it or that it much mattered to them.At the same time,while former IBOAI Board Members (i.e.,Brady, Woodward,Florence,Wilson,et al) are now standing up against this alledgedly illegal “scheme” which is claimed to have bilked unsuspecting,honest participant IBO’s,I believe that they themselves have for too long tolerated being the beneficiaries of various training and educational systems (books, tapes and seminars) which, by any stretch,were far overpriced in terms not only of cost but also of time and effectiveness.(My comments regarding this point are admittedly based upn my experience with my own uplines system, and not that of Team or any other organization. At the same time, I have personally engaged in, and been trained to deliver, numerous personal and business development programs over the past 25 years and can affirm that there are considerably more powerful programs available for far less cost and involvement. By similsr contrast, I have never been required to engage in, nor have I in fact engaged in,any continuing legal education that even remotely rivals the time and money promoted as necessary to succeed at building large networks of people consuming household and personal care items.)While its a “good thing” that these complaining IBO’s have now “gotten religion”,to anyone at the Diamond, or even Emerald level, I say you knew, or should have known, for a long time that woefully few people attained or sustained profitability at any meaningful level, yet you nevertheless shamelessly promoted a system of “education”, to your financial gain, that in true cost terms , could rival the cost of substantial continuing professional education and yet which produced little actual economic benefit. Again, this is based upon my ten years’ experience of watching good people come and go while, in a reputedly large diamond organization,the number of new platinums could be counted on one hand.)
Bottom Line: Both the Corporation and the IBOAI members, both past and present, need to do some deep soul-searching—-and fast.In particular to the Corporate Communicator or Media Blog Administrator,I urge you to stop your pithy comebacks.If this business were truly working for everyone–and by everyone I don’t mean just the founding families or the IBOAI Board members–what happened on August 10, 2007 would not have come to pass regardless of the outcome of this case.
August 20th, 2007 at 5:14 am
The biggest thing I’ve learned out of all of this is about Alticor plan to change back to the Amway name. I feel like this has been a bait and switch scam. I think #130 has a great idea about having Quixtar take a poll. But since that won’t ever happen here is the IBOA boards email address:
iboai@iboai.com
Let’s start an e-mailing campaign to the board that is supposed to be representing each of us. Just type your opinion in the subject line. My email will say, “I totally DISAGREE with changing the name back to Amway”
THANK YOU #130 for your honesty. I was aware that there are other people outside of WWDB building the business but I didn’t know of the TEAM. I love the TEAM’s passion and I think if the tables were turned and we were talking about WWDB and Ron Puryear I would be as passionate as the TEAM members are.
On a side note, the freakiest part for me is that last Wednesday an acquaintance invited me to a TEAM building meeting. After reading so many posts I’m very curious to see how they present the plan first hand. So be ware TEAM members, there will be a Ruby from WWDB sitting in on one of your meetings. Thank you again #130 for giving me a heads up about what to expect and especially about the Night Owl.
August 20th, 2007 at 8:00 am
Since I am no longer going to use q*/Amway, I started to look around at comparable products. I thought, I like the quality I was preparing to spend the same amount of money. In just 3 products -XX, Clearnow, and the Dog food, I will save a ton no longer throwing my money to the owners! Purtian’s Pride is $25 vs $150, for like 3 months!, Proactive is $20 vs $45, and $35 high end d-food, vs $60, and I am not including shipping for q* or retail prices!
It’s about time people looked up and said the prices have to go down, even at the 25% rebate level can’t touch this.
I would think the solution would have presented itself, but I guess when you are stuck in the mud…
If you don’t believe me, you will see how grossly overpriced things are when you go out and surf around. I can see why the end is near.
August 20th, 2007 at 8:51 am
Talking with friends who are IBO’s and who are restricted as to what they can say, I have three comments I would like to make.
1. Is the Choices catalogue being delayed to adjust the prices so Quixtar can defend itself against pyramid sales charges? If so what does that say about Quixtar and its actions against IBO’s who have devoted much of their lives to help build the Amway/Quixtar business? The reasons given for the delay in publishing the catalogue are suspect to me.
2. Apparently content of email to Platinums with deadline for today references rules 6.5.4 and 6.5.2. In my opinion 6.5.2 does not state that you cannot register former downline for two years. It is reference to the past status of the IBO not future. By 6.5.4 if the IBO has been out of the Quixtar business for 6 months, they are free to do as they wish and the 6 month caveat is the only restriction. Why has Quixtar again misled their hard working Platinums and higher pins and will they correct this today so those receiving this ultimatum email can make a correctly informed decision?
3. Quixtar should remove the word “independent” from IBO. The events of late have pretty much proven IBO’s are about as independent as an incarcerated convict.
August 20th, 2007 at 10:31 am
Well, well, I had been leaning toward trying to stick it out and go with the new Amway business….BUT this article sealed my decision, I WILL NOT BE A PART OF A COMPANY THAT SLANDERS ANYONE THAT HAS DONE BUSINESS WITH……JUST WAIT YOU’RE NEXT.
I lost all faith in Alticor/Amway I think the more you speak the more you are leading people away from YOUR BUSINESS.
TIME TO MOVE ON!!!!!!
August 20th, 2007 at 10:53 am
hey Bridgett why don’t you speak only if you know the facts. I don’t know why I am even acknowledging your lack of knowledge.. but the Team websight has had XS products in the product show case for years. The rootbeer XS has been there for months it rotates with different products and yes even books show up there, you are amazing by the straws you are trying to grasp. Is that all you do 24/7 is TRY to find things to gripe about. YOU KNOW IT ONLY TAKES ONE LIE AMONG TEN TRUTHS TO SWAY SOMEONE TO BELIEVE A LIE, sounds like that is what you are all about.
August 20th, 2007 at 11:24 am
Bridgett, #180, that spot on Team always changes. Of course if you were a part of Team you would know that. I have been affiliated with Team for almost a year and have seen several products placed in that spot, both Quixtar products and motivational products. You happened to catch it as it changed. I think they change it about every 2 weeks or a month, not really sure. I just know that it wasn’t a coincidence that it went from promoting a book to promoting an XS flavor.
Go back to your Alticor/Amway desk and enjoy it for now because I won’t be surprised if half if not more of A/A/Q employees are laid off within a year because sales drop in half.
August 20th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
Believe you me-I need no more convincing from Alticor/Quixtar/Amway/Whatever name-we are out of here! I can no longer trust this company. I am not on auto renewal; I have canceled my DITTO and I have transferred my bonus payment method from e-celerate to direct deposit (just in case they try to deny me access to my e-celerate debit card). This blogger is costing the company thousands of IBO’s and thousands in profit.
Freedom to all IBO’s- either affiliated with TEAM or not!!!!!!!!!
Just let us all go! A lot of us (and it sounds like a majority from all the blogs I have read) don’t want anything to do with Amway-haven’t you all got the message yet? Or is it that you just don’t give a d _ _ _ about us IBOs and our ability to build a profitable business?
August 20th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
130 perhaps you should look at the business rules on the quixtar website, I have included them for you. Quixtar makes it very clear. IBO’s are not part of quixtar…
IBOs Are Not Employees As an IBO, you are not an employee, agent, or legal representative of Quixtar, but rather a self-employed independent contractor authorized by Quixtar to sell its products and register others who do the same. Quixtar exercises no control over the amount of time you devote to the business or the amount of income you derive from it. You should NOT, at any time, represent to anyone that you are an employee of Quixtar. This includes listing Quixtar as your “employer” on loan applications and government forms. Do not ask lenders or other parties to call Quixtar to verify your income or financial status because Quixtar will not be able to provide this information.
August 20th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Here is what some of us who are not a part of TEAM sees at the forefront. (With these issues being a part of TEAM or not is irrelevant)
The decision back to Amway without the IBOAI being present or the views of IBOs in the field being taken into consideration, the pricing issue on the products, a valid and warranted concern ignored by the corporation, the corporation working with and approving Team’s approach to building depth prior to this situation and now disapproving Team’s approach, and the increasing control of the corporation over the IBOs with these and other issues. It appears that things are moving further in the direction of a dictatorship as though the IBO were an employee. The Distributors of Amway have “always” had a voice that was listened to and heard by Rich DeVos and Jay VanAndel. Our hope is that the second generation will keep the same values, principles, and care for the IBO as their fathers Rich & Jay.
August 20th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Report on the WZZM website.
August 20th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
To the person(s) responsible for writing the past few posts on Alticor Media Blog: Please recognize the responsibilty you have in representing Alticor & Co. Your tone and style is very unprofessional and immature in my opinion. You might want to take a lesson from the bloggers at oppportunityzone.com. They have been informative, respectful and professional. Not to mention transparent, each blogger has not only their name, but picture as well. I have been comfortable posting my first and last name there. (note initials) I’m afraid that if these type of posts continue, Amway/Quixtar will have to spend $250 million on a advertising/image campaign instead of the $200 million already mentioned. Even though a majority of blogs are full of gossip and negative opinions that have very little credibilty, it has proven to be quite an issue for those IBOs building there business. All this has done is fuel the critics fire. I understand if someone has an axe to grind, but using the corporate banner media blog isn’t the place to do it. It comes across that ALL Alticor & Co. and their supporters lack good judgement and don’t care about anybody but themselves (which is absolutely not true!)
August 20th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
In response to #180
Bridgett
The spot on the Team site you are referring to changes periodically, not sure how often (weekly maybe). As far as the word Quixtar being placed in front of the word products, who cares, there is no rule stating Team (or any organization for that matter) has to say they are Quixtar products.
August 20th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
i cant wait to get the call from a repersentative of Mr. Woodward or any else in the team leadership because i am ready to leave quixtar oops sorry i mean amway oh that is still wrong i mean i am ready to leave scamway and follow our TEAM leaders to the end of the world.
August 20th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
#204
Hi Steve, I’m not an employee of Alticor/Amway/Quixtar. I’m an IBO. Just like you.
#203sak
as well as Steve #204, since you too only addressed one of the two changes)
Did you read the other part that had changed–the insertion of the word “Quixtar” before “products” in the center yellow arrow graph?
And #203sak, when the XS products have been showcased, just curious if the tag “A Quixtar Exclusive” was also inserted, like it is now.
You’d know been than I. Obviously.
#209 rpr7768
You are right that Team doesn’t have to say they are Quixtar products.
So why did they add the word “Quixtar” in the graph?
I don’t know the answer. So I’m throwing it out there to see if somoeone does know the answer.
Thanks.
August 20th, 2007 at 11:38 pm
this is the worst article i have seen yet. I hope Alticor gets shut down. this is bush-league
August 21st, 2007 at 12:42 am
Bridget
I don’t know that they did add the word “quixtar” in the graph. If they did add it, I really don’t know why they would. Furthermore, I really don’t see why it matters.
As I said, there is no rule (that i’m aware of) which states any team has to state that Quixtar is where they get their products.
XS products, by the way, are NOT Quixtar products, they are XS products which are distributed, consumed and sold by business owners who have purchased the right to distribute, sell and consume them. Quixtar itself states in the rules that IBO’s are not part of Quixtar, IBO’s are INDEPENDANT distributors who purchase the right to distribute products available through quixtar.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:17 am
According to Grand Rapids TV Channel -
“Several Quixtar Independent Business Operators from around the state of Michigan assembled outside the Kent County Courthouse Monday afternoon.
No ruling, but in a brief statement lawyers from both sides agreed, Quixtar will not take action until a ruling takes place next week.
The group is protesting a recent decision by Quixtar, whose parent company is Alticor, to terminate 15 independent business operators last week. The company claims that the independent distributors actions are detrimental to the company’s operations.
Alticor had given the group until 5pm today to disassociate themselves in anyway from the 15 banned distributors. “
(Much more on the story online and online says this Michigan media channel.WZZM13)
FREE THE IBO. LET FREEDOM RING FOR US AND OUR FAMILIES.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:51 am
The actions (or lawsuits, if necessary) that come to mind are: 1. Request the fee paid for(by force) for IBOAI representation to be refunded. This fee is NOT an option when signing up a new IBO. I want my money back and all of my downlines money to be returned to them as well!! We have no representation. 2. All the verbage on the new registration requirements sound like we are employees of Trickster(Quixtar)or Amway. I think I will need a W2 instead of a 1099. 3. I had no idea that you were NOT enforcing the Retailing requirements….does this mean I have missed out on bonus money by being honest? I may calculate what was wrongfully not paid to my whole team and request that be paid to them as well. I can only conclude that you are purposefully imploding to put yourselves into a different market by making everyone quit or be terminated so that you don’t have pay what is due to your IBO’s long term.
August 21st, 2007 at 5:10 am
There’s a British expression that refers to putting the cat amoung the pigeons. Well it seems that that is what has happened.
WoodTV.com reports (http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6957946):
“Two more IBO training businesses, “Legacy” and “5-K” are also named in the class action suit. They claim Quixtar knowingly operates an illegal recruiting pyramid, and said Quixtar has a campaign in place to damage and destroy all IBOs associated with Team.”
And then continues…
“The judge made no ruling on the requested restraining order. Another hearing with all parties concerned is scheduled for Wednesday.”
The reporter referred to Quixtar as an “Amway owned business.”
The cats (negative media,negative public opinion, lack of respect - one side for the other, and confusion) have been set amoung the pigeons (IBOs)
Many IBOs on both sides of the issue will scatter; some will return to business as usual,; some will leave for another location; and some will become victims of the cats.
All will certainly keep a wary eye on the cats, even if they try to maintain business as usual.
August 21st, 2007 at 8:03 am
Read what the remaining (majority) of the IBOAI board and NAFC (North America Founders Council- All Founders Triple Diamonds and above) say about there support of Quixtar’s decision to terminate TEAM & Co. IBOs.
http://www.iboai.com/MediaCenter-QuixtarAmway.asp
August 21st, 2007 at 10:03 am
I’d like to hear what Quixtar management has to say about Chuck Geotschel’s comments. How about Q employees, too?
August 21st, 2007 at 2:13 pm
#215 rpr7786
You’re right. XS is not a Quixtar product. It’s a product available exclusively through Quixtar. Just like all the Access Business Group products. They aren’t Quxitar products either. They are products available exclusively through Quixtar (and Amway in other countries).
Since the TEAM website doesn’t have to mention that they distribute Quixtar products (or products sold exclusively through Quxitar), then why was the word ADDED?
THAT IS MY QUESTION. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. earlier.
Does anyone know why?
Thanks.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:16 pm
By the way, speaking of XS, XS is staying with Quixtar.
Here’s a post from XS under What’s New on the quixtar.com website.
https://www.quixtar.com/quixtar/whatsnew/detail.aspx?ctg=9496&aid=14045&pid=4398
Unless you have a Quxitar log-in, I don’t think you can access this link.
So here’s the copy (sorry for the lengthiness Alticor moderator, but I think it’s important to let people know since there is misinformation that XS will be providing Orrin, Chris, and their gang with an energy drink for their new MLM):
XS and Quixtar Affirm Their Commitment in North America
XS will remain exclusive to Quixtar and Quixtar IBOs.
XS™ Energy Drinks, Quixtar and Quixtar Independent Business Owners continue to set sales records in their exclusive partnership. Both companies remain firmly committed to their marketing and distribution plans, keeping XS Energy Drinks exclusive to Quixtar and their Independent Business Owners.
“We are extremely proud and excited to be exclusive distribution partners with Quixtar in North America for XS Energy Drinks, and we don’t plan to change that,” says David Vanderveen, XS spokesperson. “Our commitment to this partnership means we will not be supplying an energy drink to any other MLM company.
In fact, AdWeek just ran a cover story last week* on XS’s radical breakthroughs with Quixtar IBOs. It was a lot of fun to shake up the strategic creative thinkers at an advertising agency conference by telling them that we focused on generating bonuses for IBOs rather than on media ads. We remain committed to supporting Quixtar and IBOs in developing their businesses.”
Over the past 52-week period, XS has sold more than 6.5 million cases of energy drinks in the USA and Canada. Launched in 2002, XS continues to enjoy radical growth with the most current 52-week sales volume up 15 percent in the USA (a much larger and mature market) and over 76 percent in Canada (a younger and accelerating market).
“XS has been a core brand that we promote to the best of our ability alongside our other exclusive brands like NUTRILITE® and ARTISTRY®,” says Jim Payne, Managing Director for Quixtar. “XS has been and will continue to be an important offering to IBOs and a key component for growth. We have no plans to alter this successful partnership.”
“We move more than 200,000 cans of energy drinks per day which generates more than $134,000 a day or $49 million a year in bonuses to IBOs from the success of our exclusive agreement with XS” says Payne. “We don’t plan to change that - in fact, we plan to launch a new flavor of XS Energy Drink this fall.”
And here’s a link to the Adweek article:
http://www.adweek.com/aw/national/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003622986
August 21st, 2007 at 5:18 pm
222, That is great XS is staying with Quixtar however Quixtar isn’t Quixtar anymore incase you haven’t heard they are AMWAY and the XS contract is with Quixtar not alticor meaning that they will have to renegotiate the contract.
August 21st, 2007 at 8:10 pm
Bridgett,
I completely understand your question. As I ststed in my post “I don’t know why they added it.”
My question to you is “Why does it matter?”
August 22nd, 2007 at 2:04 am
#223 Chris,
It’s Quixtar for the next 18-24 months.
Isn’t XS in Australia? Isn’t Australia Amway?
#224 rpr7768
It’s okay if you don’t know the answer. I’m asking ANYONE on this blog. Sorry I didn’t make that clear. I understand that you don’t know.
Does anyone know?
Thanks.
August 22nd, 2007 at 8:17 am
Another UNPROFESSIONAL blog post by an “international corporation”…
How sad!
August 22nd, 2007 at 9:01 am
Chris #223,
Bologna. You don’t renegotiate all your contracts when you change your name, you just make a global reference to the old and new names and move on.
rpr7768 #224,
Good point, why does it matter? TEAM is gone. Thank God. (Or, if you don’t believe in God, “thank goodness”)
August 22nd, 2007 at 9:11 am
I wonder why only the North American market has such a problem with the name Amway? That’s the name the rest of the world uses and knows…and my young American friends don’t seem to care about the name, Amway, either.
The corporation (whatever they call themselves) is making big changes to help us retail. Packaging, product groupings, advertising, etc. That didn’t just start with this law suit. It takes months to plan these changes.
I had to laugh when I read that someone above “was able to find products for less”. You can’t find COMPARABLE product for less. Do you understand the difference between whole plant concentrates and isolated nutrients? It’s like comparing breast milk to formula…that’s the difference between Nutrilite and Wal-Mart. Have you looked at the DNA results after taking Double X for 6 weeks? It’s on the website…we are looking for consumers we can educate. That’s our market.
RE: systems…Ron Puryear and WWDB split from Britt several years ago, because of system issues. Puryear made the changes TEAM refuses to make. John Crowe, Rex Renfrow, Larry Winters, Hemi & Kanti Gala, Sestina, Ridley; all left their previous systems. These changes all caused major upheavals, but these leaders felt is was necessary and worth it. So don’t ask why they aren’t standing up for TEAM…they have been making the changes that they knew were inevitable. Ask yourself why these leaders are investing in new systems (making less money for themselves) so they can better support Amway product sales…which is the exact opposite strategy that TEAM is using.
Systems were very expensive to start back in the 70’s. But, for the first time, they enabled lots of people to become very successful. Amway/Quixtar has become involved not because they wanted to, but because some of the systems have become a liability. It’s not a matter of choice. Check out what happened in England. Amway (along with Britt and Network 21) got sued because of the systems. If TEAM crossed ANY of the restrictions imposed by the FTC, then it’s not negotiable. If Alticor doesn’t fix the problem, then government regulators will…and that’s not good thing for business!
August 22nd, 2007 at 10:46 am
#223
Are you so naive to think that just because a company changes its name that the contracts that company has automatically end?
August 22nd, 2007 at 1:09 pm
222 Bridgett
“Here’s a post from XS under What’s New on the quixtar.com website.
https://www.quixtar.com/quixtar/whatsnew/detail.aspx?ctg=9496&aid=14045&pid=4398”
I couldn’t find this in any of the topics, did I just overlook it?
Thanks.
August 22nd, 2007 at 7:51 pm
Tex
Team is anything but gone my friend.
I don’t remember posting anything to you, it’s no wonder you’ve been banned from every site except the one that posts articles like the one above.
Team will definately be gone from quixtar/amway/alticor, thank God.
Have a nice life.
August 22nd, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Alticor Media Blog Administrator,
could you please place a new post listing item by item the changes coming on sept. 1. Through 3rd party, press releases, your various emails, and blogs I’m getting concerned about the future of my business?
I’ve heard and am concerned about;
- the amway name change that has never been mentioned to any ibo in the emails, blogs, or phone calls made to current ibos.
- the dissolution of the iboai; our only representation to the company
- the taking over of all training systems including any profits made on such materials
- certain probationary time frames for new ibos
It seems to me that as a company who stresses the importance of transparency is being pretty opaque.
If changes to our business are coming I believe we have the right to know upfront from our company not some small news release. I’ve been a loyal representative and defender of your company for 5+ years. That loyalty is quickly being eroded when I see the letters like the one above, personally receive threatening emails from you guys with deadlined ultimatums, and hear the trash talk on a leadership team that has helped so much in my business and personal growth.
thank you for your response.
August 22nd, 2007 at 10:17 pm
Cathy #228,
The other groups aren’t angels, either.
Most of them probably split off to get a bigger cut of the tool profits.
They may talk “philosophical differences”, but I vote for the almighty dollar.
I’ll believe them when they show their tool profit numbers.
August 23rd, 2007 at 1:21 am
As a fairly new Quixtar IBO, I am very disappointed in the blog postings coming from “Corporate Communications.” I find them to be insulting and juvenile. Doesn’t bode well for a Company trying to improve their reputation. At this point, I am ready to go with the Team, simply out of avoiding any association whatsoever with a Corporation that would allow such postings from their own headquarters.
August 23rd, 2007 at 1:53 am
#230 jake
Go to quixtar.com, log in as an IBO, and go to the WHAT’S NEW box in the lower right-hand corner.
The bulletins are listed with most recent on top. The XS one is dated 8/20.
The sub-topic would be What’s New in Business.
August 23rd, 2007 at 1:54 am
#232 b dickonson
go to www.opportunityzone.com
That’s where you’ll find a ton of info, and discussion, and people are highly more civil over there.
…for the most part
August 23rd, 2007 at 8:12 am
Tex #233
My training costs have dropped by at least 50%. The Platinums have said they get more money, and that’s who the money should be going to (to build a diamondship, you need platinums). Our system is finally using technology to cut cost. Honestly, I don’t care of they make money, but it needs to be a good value for me. I resented that the cost of training tools made it difficult to afford samples for my business. Now I can easily afford both.
You can make your money from the systems and risk losing your business because the FTC comes down on everyone, or you can take a long-term view and make your money from Quixtar/Amway. These leaders have taken the latter course. I can tell the difference, and so can Alticor. Hopefully, so can the FTC.
August 23rd, 2007 at 1:37 pm
Hey if it is two- four years to change to AMWAY then why is the “Satinique® Capture Color Conditioner” that my daughter just received has on the bottomof the back of the bottle the scarlett “A” word on a.k.a. “AMWAY”
August 23rd, 2007 at 1:37 pm
Hi to you all.
I’m a long time IBO 18+years and this is my 1st year at Platinum…Maybe this fact will get you all the hear me better. I’m not bashing TEAM Or QUIXTAR but if the stats say 3% of all sales are from retail? How do they get this stat? I’ll tell you, it is a M/C or now Client Reporting part of out site that is
auto capture feature and it is also self reported????? What if the self reporting was faked??? Folks, I’m most of the time getting it done right but I’m full time sales person with a 25 year past of full commission sales.
I’m a part of this problem… I have facked my reprting many times to get my check and I only know of 1 -3 out of hundreds that in my group that also do it right. Sad but true and all of you know this…. It’s going to be interesting.
I’m not on TEAM but they are fighting a just fight.
I love Quixtar but I’m starting feel I’m on the wronge TEAM.
Are we legal??? If this point I make is true we are NOT! And this can & will be proved.
August 23rd, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Under the guise of “transformation”, an IBO (independent business owner) will become and has become an “Incarcerated business owner”. Is this the meaning of pursuit of freedom? Sounds like we will be getting a W-2 from the company instead of a 1099 based on the way the Blood sucking lawyers will be running the company. So this is what it’s like practicing free enterprise in a communist country where one entity sets all the rules. Is this America? No, looks like it’s the UK and Ireland.
August 23rd, 2007 at 10:06 pm
Additional comment for #238
that “A” word (AMWAY) is also on the front of the bottle also.
August 24th, 2007 at 12:02 am
rpr7768 #231,
You are not my friend. Remember, we are known by the company we keep. I don’t remember caring whether you posted anything to me. This is an open blog for us to provide our points of view. Mine happen to be supported by facts and near-perfect logic that would make Rush Limbaugh proud. You have a nice life, too. I heard ignorance is bliss.
b dickinson #232,
I agree. However, I think the “Orrin effect” has put a bit of a monkey wrench into the progress of the transformation.
Tex #233,
Well said (oops, that’s me).
gtf #234,
Don’t take a little informal “street talk” too seriously. TEAM has severe honesty issues. I suggest you stay tuned and get more information. This is part of TEAM’s “act”, appearing to take the high road, when in reality they live in the ditch. Judge both by the long term, not a single interaction. What if you decided what kind of basketball player Michael Jordan was if you saw him miss a single layup? (he must have missed one, right?)
Cathy in Dayton #237,
That is great. What is your tool system name/upline? How much do the Platinums and above make on tools?
M WAL #238,
It’s a vast Amway conspiracy. Seriously, I thought they took the Amway name off the products years ago, and are now using Access Business Group. You’re not pulling our leg, are you?
New Platinum #239,
You admit to breaking rules, probably agree TEAM is breaking rules, and yet say they are fighting a just fight? What’s your logic?
Bill #240,
There is a tool scam in those countries as well.
August 24th, 2007 at 9:09 am
VERY semi sincere aoplogies about post #238 & #241. It appears that the bottle shipped to my daughter here in the US was manufactures for the Netherlands. Probally a shipping mistake, but I know some downline IBO’s who would have been hot, if they got this, because they were told by upline IBO’s including us (as Quixtar said we could do legally) that this is not AMWAY.
August 24th, 2007 at 11:33 am
M WAL #243,
As the church lady from the old Saturday Night Live shows would say, “How convenient”. That should teach you to deny the relationship between Quixtar and Amway. Hard to believe you bought it from Quixtar. Did she buy it on the internet, such as ebay?
August 24th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
Tex;
it was part of her ditto order
August 29th, 2007 at 1:43 am
well if you want to follow a path of logic, take a quixway product (or Amtar) ones the make themselves, and take it to any store and compare prices, the are not even competitive, so not being able to leave and not being able to retail, makes it all very difficult to build a amyway business, doesnt it???? was it like this years ago??? nope, i personally believe we have a huge leadership issue in this country and quixtar/amyway can count themselves in this country wide challenge,
if they would understand that the only consistent is change and change we must, and not retro change, like wearing wide ties and selling products door to door,no one wants another job i cant see the sense them making the business harder to build but easier if you just want to work at selling products, i have to sell myself at my job everyday how am i going to sell a products that is 300% marked up (jay rule) the only way is for a ibo to eat the overage to be competive, great business strategy.thanks for being logical in your screwing of the newest ibo quixtar,
smell another marker…..marker man
the “betterman” was right
for those of you that have been around for awhile might know who that is.
August 29th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
reality check #246,
When you do price comparisons, do you make any attempt to consider cost per use or quality? This would be similar to buying a car on price alone, but ignoring what kind of mileage it gets and how comfortable it is. If you don’t want to learn sales skills, have fun on your job.
There isn’t anything different between the “J rule” and how we describe product markup to people by showing the 30% manufacturing cost compared to the retail cost. Thanks for pointing out Quixtar is therefore a “real” business. I’m sure Jody and Gerry are wetting their pants laughing over those “jokes”.
August 30th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Wow….just as childish as the “Just go, Team” posting. And to think that the idiot writer and the idiot who hired him/her are the ones that have influence with the servicing company for my independent business…how did we ever get to $1B? Oh, I forgot… we’re not independent business owners, just a 1099 sales force. Never in my life have I seen a company with so much going for it just seem to self-distruct in so short a time.
Alticor .. wake up…. you’re going to lose more than just TEAM. How many people want to be loyal to a company that’s behaved like you all have the last 3 months.. from the June 15 back-stab to these blog-post, violation of your own rules of conduct, etc… I have never met anyone from TEAM, but I know that they have exposed the true colors of those at the helm in Ada. For this, I am grateful.
I have no product loyality anymore - why should I. Supermarket product will replace those that I was buying from “my own business” (yeah right) out of a sense of self-employment and loyalty. I’m only purchasing what I like best…not a drop more.
August 31st, 2007 at 12:45 am
Tex, it’s UR Association, Sestina/Renfrow. Includes Crowe.
September 1st, 2007 at 12:30 am
Disappointed…. ,
Lighten up, get a grip. I’m tired of the “stiff” corporate-speak. Besides, the “looser” language is designed to bring out more information, and from where I sit, it looks like this approach is working well. Kinda shakes up your “no negative downline” and constant smiley face while you lose your shirt to your upline via high tool costs, doesn’t it?
How much money does your Platinums and above make on tools? Which group?
Cathy #249,
Thanks for the answer. Now, what was the question? It helps to reference the question number you are responding to, thanks.
September 2nd, 2007 at 11:10 pm
#246
Regarding the “J Factor” (take the cost of doing business and multiply by 3):
This is what I know by looking at numbers and doing the math in regards to the annual revenue of quixtar compared and the annual bonuses that quixtar pays out to IBOs at all levels…
1/3 of the revenues pays the cost of doing business (actual product, salaries, buildings, electricity, etc.);
1/3 of the revenues pays the bonuses and other incentives to IBOs for creating the revenues;
1/3 of the revenues pays the DeVos and VanAndel families for…for, um…for their dads/granddads starting the company.
One third goes to the founding families.
I have no idea how this (33% of revenues) compares to other family-owned businesses.
Does anyone know? Like, really know. Not opinion.
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:36 pm
Tex, I answered the questioned you posed to me in post #242.
I gotta say these blogs fascinated me for about 48 hours…but do you know how much the bonus is for Q12 platinums is this year???
Good luck with this battle of word, y’all! I’ve got a business to build…
September 5th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
www.ashtonpartners.com
Ashton Partners is a strategic advisory firm specializing in investor relations (IR) and corporate communications. We work in partnership with top-level corporate executives to manage and position the information that impacts a company’s credibility, reputation and ultimately, its valuation.
“manage and position the information to impact a company’s….”
According to ashton’s website - people hire them to (in this case) make TEAM look good and make Quixtar look bad.
September 5th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Tex, i think you have discouraged TEAM bloggers… there are not as many anymore. I think you are winning.
Tex - the tool profit comments are just spam advertising. These posts do not at all relate to your comments.
Its great you can buy your stuff at ebay and garage sales, drive a used geo metro or honda civic, and have taken a vow of poverty…. but for jews, christians, and businessmen - “Profit is Good”
I shoot straight to you b/c you are a choleric and can handle it!
September 12th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
Tex -Get a grip? “Corporate speak”? Did you read my post? I would like to make a comment about your mental aptitude, or lack thereof…or about the fact that of your 200000 posts on this board, you demonstrate very little of what I would expect to find in the thought process of a true business owner, but it would be a waste of time. I wonder what you do with your time besides lurk/post around this board?…or if you have time for much else.
You like to complain about tool bonuses - I wonder what you really know about this? Bonuses vary from team to team, mind you. As for my upline platinum? …aside from me being a platinum, there are a few upline platinums up to my Diamonds. For the responsibility and work that a platinum has, I don’t think the bonuses are really enough – from Quixtar or the tools. I encourage you to grow your business – go ahead and break 1000, 2500, 4000, then 7500pv. See what it looks like from there before you drag entire education systems through the mud. Maybe then you’ll develop a little understanding of what it means to be on a team, and to build a business…then maybe you’ll have a different perspective. Good luck.
September 20th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
jthompson #254,
They’re still here, just licking their wounds and figuring out how they have been misled by Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward for years.
I don’t understand what you meant by “Tex - the tool profit comments are just spam advertising. These posts do not at all relate to your comments.”
I agree profit is good. So is being honest.
Disappointed… #255,
Want some cheese with that whine? How about some honesty regarding your tool profits while you’re at it?
September 24th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Tex,
You can offer cheese to “Disappointed” all day long…but the fact is…nobody has been more guilty of whining on this blog than you. Your whining sounds so much like a broken record that everyone leaves from boredom. We all know there is substantial money made on tools. This isn’t big news to anyone. NEWS FLASH…buying the tools is VOLUNTARY.
Does it bother you that athletes make more on their advertising endorsements than their sports contracts?
Does it bother you that your car dealer may make more money repairing cars than selling them?
Since most of the people using the tools seem happy about it and more than willing to pay for what they are getting, where’s the beef?
September 29th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
whatever #257,
I’m not whining, I’m communicating facts. Facts that you and others don’t seem to like, because they reflect poorly on your upline “heros”. If “everyone” leaves in boredom, why are you still here? If “everyone” knows substantial money is made on tools, why not tell us how much is made, and tell your prospects this information? Buying tools is voluntary, but as the upline says, so is success. What a crock
of poo-poo. This means tools are optional in theory, not in reality. Get a clue.It doesn’t bother me at all that athletes make more on endorsements than their sports contracts. This information is well known, unlike the tool scam. Plus, these athletes don’t claim to be our “business partners” or “teammates”, nor do they claim their wealth is from their sports contracts when it is really from the endorsements (which would be paid from US if the analogy you tried to use was applied accurately).
Same with the car dealer. Want to try another lame example? You won’t be able to find one, unless it starts with Enron, MCI, Tyco, Adelphia, or some other business scam of the past few years.
Most people don’t know the truth about the tool profits, and most people either drop out because the tools are too expensive or go broke trying to make them work. Aren’t you aware of the 2/3 dropout rate in the first year? This applies to TEAM a little less in the first year, but a higher dropout rate in the second year, with a slightly higher dropout rate for the first two years, according to my Quixtar sales manager. That’s the beef. It’s big, thick, and juicy.
I suggest you check your facts next time, you have brought precious few to the table. You also must be a vegetarian, because I saw no “meat” of any type from you.
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Tex,
I’m not whining, I’m communicating opinions. Opinions that you and others don’t seem to like, because they speak poorly on subjects I know little about. If “everyone” leaves in boredom, you must still be here because I provide entertainment. If “everyone” knows substantial money is made on tools, I might as well keep repeating it over and over. Buying tools is voluntary, but as the upline says, so is success. What a crock of poo-poo. This means tools are optional, but highly recommended. Get a clue.
It doesn’t bother me at all that athletes make more on endorsements than their sports contracts. In my opinion, this information is well known, much like the tool profits.
Same with the car dealer.
In my opinion, most people know the truth about the tool profits, and most people either drop out because they didn’t want to work to build a business. Aren’t you aware of the 2/3 dropout rate in the first year? This applies to TEAM a little less in the first year, but a higher dropout rate in the second year, with a slightly higher dropout rate for the first two years. In fact, there is a pretty high failure rate for all small businesses. That’s the beef.
I suggest you agree with my opinions next time, you have brought precious few to the table. By the way, do you like chinese food?
October 4th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Yes, tools are so highly “recommended”, that if you buy them, you are ignored. Get a clue.
In my opinion, you are wrong about most people knowing about the MASSIVE tool profits. Many people may know there is some profit, but they have very little understanding how HUGE it is, and how it creates the wrong incentives for the upline. The TEAM tool contract even requires this information to be kept secret.
2/3 dropout rate is typical for MLM. It could be better if the tool scam wasn’t around.
Pay attention, there are more and more “precious few” coming to the table.
I love Chinese food.
October 5th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
Tex #260,
Correction, first sentence above should have stated, ” Yes, tools are so highly “recommended”, that if you DON’T buy them, you are ignored.