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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
August 10th, 2007 @ 3:59 pm ET…
Just go, Team
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
We terminated Orrin Woodward yesterday, along with several other leaders of his field organization, named Team. We’ll post our formal statement when it’s ready. Informally, here’s the story:
We terminated Orrin Woodward for philosophical reasons. We did it for legal reasons.
But the main reason we did it is because the way Orrin Woodward ran his organization was a disgrace to every person who’s ever tried to build a Quixtar or Amway business the right way.
We have fought to clean up the reputation of our company for years. We know that one of the biggest challenges our reputation faces is misrepresentation of the Quixtar and Amway businesses to others.
And over the last several months, it became clear to us that Orrin Woodward was a poster child for a long list of bad business practices that our critics hate about our company. The other leaders we terminated – including Chris Brady, Billy Florence, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Tim Marks and Chuck Goetschel – also showed they were unwilling to reform.
Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could.
Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.
Telling people that Quixtar was merely a “supplier,” and not the company they were signing a contract with? Yup.
We’d told Woodward we had problems with the way he ran his business for years, and we worked methodically to bring those problems to resolution. We got ignored, we got lied to, and, boy, we got the runaround.
So in the end, yesterday, we tried to give him one last chance to reform.
He didn’t even want to hear his options. So we terminated him. And in return, he handed us a trumped-up, trash-talking lawsuit on his way out the door. In response, we have a temporary restraining order issued by a court that prevents him from looting the business as he seeks to take his act to a new company.
So he’s gone, and so are others. We are doing our best to repair the relationships Orrin Woodward damaged and protect the businesses of the people in his organization that Orrin Woodward betrayed. And we will continue building our business with thousands of people who know how to build it the right way.
We would say we were sorry to see Orrin Woodward go. But only if that were true.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
August 18th, 2007 at 11:36 pm
QUESTION:
Why do liberals ALWAYS complain more than conservatives?
ANSWER:
Because, “people with no integrity, expect to get their way; and when they don’t, they want to have the liberal courts and liberal media prove them right”
August 18th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
Hey how about this for Orrins new MLM?
T E A M
Together
Everyone
Advances
Me
August 19th, 2007 at 4:24 am
I used to be with Quixtar and had Network 21 for a group. I tried to build a business long enough to remember certain rules IBO’s needed to follow.
I went to a TEAM meeting not too long ago as a favor to a friend that was getting pressured to bring someone new.
After the meeting, his wife asked me what I thought. I tried to explain to her that she was never going to achieve her dream of early retirement by only BUYING products. She had no clue as to why it wouldn’t work! Apparently she could not see the logic in how PV affects personal BV. TEAM teaches to drive one leg as deep as possible until it breaks away (25% Performance Bonus level); however, they fail to mention that in order to receive the ~4% comission from the break away group, the IBO must maintain a certain bonus level (i think it was 9%). Good luck if your only buying stuff and your only downline hits 25%! (Can you personally use ~$1200 worth of Amway products every month?)
Anyways, the only people getting rich and reaching their goals with the TEAM group are the ones at the top.
If you truly want Quixtar to work, learn to sell and SELL A LOT! Performance bonus is calculated from GROUP PV; but you only take in a percentage of your PERSONAL BV. The other source was comission bonus checks for reaching certain pin levels; but I don’t know if this still occurs.
August 19th, 2007 at 10:28 am
if you knew Orrin and the leaders fo the team and you would not put them same realm as amway/quixtar or evil rich white men. it just to bad when amway went bad it made all MLMs look bad. Orrin knew this day would come for years now. Orrin told the team we were leaving quixtar in 04/05 to show that thi biz can work in the hands of good men and women not for $money$ but to help the new IBO with a system that woks that is why the has doudlbled there numbers year in and year out. being the #1 in all of quixtar for the past 8 years when evey one in quixtar could not hold there numbers. Orrin,Chris & the team will go head to head with quixtar and prove the little guy can play big in a big way, and it will look like what walmart did to kmart.
time will prove the team right
August 19th, 2007 at 10:39 am
#722 and all the others on here who think that they know what they are talking about when they speak about Team’s training system and how Orrin and Chris are making all the money on the system, I’m sorry if this is how your upline treated or continues to treat you with their system but you obviously do not have the facts regarding where the money goes with the Team system (A non-profit system where the money is distributed among all IBO’s who are performing) and if you perform more than Chris or Orrin you make MORE!! HUH? Guess that’s just too fair for Quixtar…Guess you shouldn’t go out and ever buy any self improvement book or CD or ever attend any seminars to learn leadership skills because…IT’S A SCAM!! THEIR MAKING MONEY OFF OF YOU, AND NOT SHARING IT WITH YOU!!
Orrin and Chris did leave the Dexter system because they saw that it wasn’t fair for the average IBO, and they left the Quixtar/Amway business because they saw that it isn’t fair for the average IBO either…..They are men who are willing to stand up and fight against the status quo when everyone else just cowers in the corner pretending that it will go away, they are not stupid, they knew exactly what kind of attacks they were going to take and the fight that was ahead of thme if they resigned but they were willing to do that for all of us. Will they profit off of a better business venture? I sure hope so because that is what a smart business person is supposed to do!! But I’m sure they have ensured that not only will they profit more, but that we (Team) will also profit more! I guess they took the advice in all of the books that they have read such as take care of your people and they will take care of the company! Sounds like a Win=Win senario, unlike Quixtar’s senario…I guess the leadership at Quixtar should get involved in our training system and learn some leadership and business principles. Chris and Orrin have always taught us that methods, strategies, products and companies come and go but leadership principles NEVER change and can always be taken somewhere else, applied, and results received. And for all of you who think that I am brainwashed and following “blindly”, just maybe you’re wrong and I do have a brain and just maybe I do know exactly what is going on?!
August 19th, 2007 at 11:05 am
I have sat in Chris Brady’s living room and have spent time with him and his wife and I know the kind of people that they are.
To the person that wrote the comment about just leave God out of this because he doesn’t have anything to do with law suits and strife, Chris and Orrin tried to get Quixtar to let us go quietly. They did not want it to have to come to a court battle and they have not said one bad word about anyone or anything except in the law suit that was necessary for us all to be able to be free. I also believe that these 8 or 9 men shouldn’t have stayed a part of something that they knew was not in line with the best interest of everyone involved even at the cost of slanders and lies, after all Jesus spoke the truth at all costs (the cost of His life!)….And just to let you know that because of Orrin, Chris and Pastor Dickie, myself and 4 other people on my team have been led to the Lord. I know that Orrin and Chris know what their ultimate purpose is, and trust me they have made that clear to us all. Being a Christian is not just about going to church on Sunday, it is about being sensitive to what the Holy Spirit is speaking to us each and every second of every day about our personal and our business lives. And if He says stop and change directions in the middle of what we believed our course should be then that it what we should be doing in obedience to His Word.
And to all of you who say that you don’t believe in Jesus as your saviour, I have 2 questions for you….#1 Why do you believe what you believe? #2 What if you are wrong? Because if I’m wrong then I’m just going to die like we all do, but if you’re wrong you will have eternity to wish you could have changed your mind.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
I would still be an IBO today if the company had stood up to the system abuses of the King Pin Diamonds and other leaders 30 years ago, as Rich de Vos said he was going to do. It seems however that money speaks louder as he decided to do nothing. For that reason I left, as both were equally complicit and not worthy of my time.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
#798, you are partially right. If you have only one Platinum leg (group running 7,500 PV), then you will be unable to tap in to any of the 4% Leadership money on that leg unless you have some volume outside that leg.
You start to tap in to that money with 2,500 PV outside that leg. But that 2,500 PV doesn’t have to be personal volume. It can be combined volume from your other legs.
Here is a link. Everyone, before you post any more about how the money is made, please read the first few pages of the Business Reference Guide.
https://www.quixtar.com/documents/iwov/vis/010-en/pdf/LA1015.pdf
August 19th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
To Kit McCoy #782: If you are already a Quixtar IBO’s customer, why in the world were you doing a search so you could place an order? You would either go to quixtar.com, your IBO’s personal retail site, or call the 800 number. Your post smells fishy (and not Omega-3) to me.
As for not wanting to place an order because a company is in “trouble” or not completely transparent, that’s baloney, too. I’ve never seen people stop buying gas or charging on their credit cards because Exxon/Mobil or Chase Bank are about as sleazy and underhanded as they come.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
#63
How can someone say that Orrin and Chris invented the Quixtar website themselves and in the same breath say that no one ever mentions quixtar? A litle note for you, in order to say someone invented something, you have to mention what that something is. Also, about the content reviewed material, did you know that their first night material was content reviewed a mere four months ago? Now that is truth.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
IBOnolonger #798,
You have a GCE (Gross Conceptual Error).
You get paid on your personal and group PV/BV, including your purchases, your customer purchases, your IBO purchases, and their customer purchases.
Having 10 people in one leg is a lot less profitable than having 10 people in 10 legs.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
mmfemt - #801
One question: what possible evidence do you have to demonstrate the tool money is feeding a “non-profit” part of ANY business. Orrin building homes for orphans may be HIS charity, but you cannot describe the money generated from the TOOLS as a non-profit organization.
Wow.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Anybody concerned with the cost of the TEAM SYSTEM just search “quixtar cds” on E-Bay. Looks like their stock value has just dropped this past week. Used to be 50 cents on the dollar. Now they are only worth 10 cents on the dollar. I love their story cds. I even got a Top 50 for well under $200. including shipping.
Seems the only cd’s on ebay are BRITT WW and TEAM mostly. Looks like they lose as many as they put in as well. If Orrin and Chris and TEAM start their own MLM, the price on ebay will even be better…
Now a couple of scenerios: (1) What if Orrin’s Group hooks up with WALMART as their e-commerce site. Maybe it is already in place. There was talk not long ago that Sam’s Stores (Walmart) was soon going to be available on-line. Is Orrin going to be the leader of this next trend?? (2) Now TEAM, what if after you all leave then Quixtar/Amway decides to lower all their prices to better compete with WALMART. hummnn! I think I’ll just keep drinking my XS and selling my XS along with lots of other great products until the whole thing unfolds…
August 19th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
If you break a 7500 pv leg, you must have 2500 pv outside that leg to recieve or be legible for the 4%. If you are not at 7500 pv yourself, but at 2500pv, outside of your leg at 7500, then you get what is called a pass up bonus. (a percentage of the 4% in ratio to 7500pv; 1/3 of the 4% bonus you get and the rest goes to your upline platinum) Of course if 20 years go bye and you go from 2500pv outside that big leg of yours, you will now receive the full 4% bonus.) totally different from other business’s out there. generally you can only go 2 wide and the money stops flowing about 5/6 levels down. the Retail vol, % on own purchases, and the 4% bonus are but three bonuses out there. They have 17 or so…. The more you do, the more you get. Width and depth is the key. the bonus schedule is just one bonus. No one said any more about my retail comments?
August 19th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
ibo nolonger was not totally correct. But was correct about the way TEAM builds it. Retail, Own purchases, building businesses of organizational businesses. If you miss anyone of the three components, your folks will have trouble building a long term business. Retail for folks that need to plug into the system that don’t have the money to, also for example. You can’t teach what you haven’t done. Buy from your self, what you need-not a qoata to be part of the TEAM. Transfer of buying habits. Folks that you meet that are willing and want to build. Builders will build orginations using the system to support there ibos
August 19th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
#801. Good motivational/spiritual talk. You do not need to be a christian to build this business. Matter of fact, what I have found, the more promotion of religion, the less leadership skills an IBO has. The less work he does. The smaller organization he has. You should not mix the two. You can run a great business without mixing. Once you know particular leaders well enough, they and you will talk about what you believe; it is inevitable. But you should not be pressing folks or pushing your beliefs on folks using this business model. If you are a true christian, they will see it from your actions and character (accountability, work, personal ethics, integrity). This is a business: offer them the Big business, Prosumer side (small business), or be a retail client. Give them benefits. If you become friends and they allow you to talk about such things (personal time). Then great. I am a cristian and if some one wants to know, I tell them or get them a bible or get them to church. I don’t use the business to push my beliefs. Business owners giving people another alternitive/opportunity. Let them decide.
August 19th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
It is kind of absurd to believe someone who calls themself “IBOnolonger” knows so much about the practises of the Team or Quixtar. That’s like watching the fight on the TV and expecting your yelling at the screen to change the match. I guess even funnier than that, is to understand why a company, Quixtar, would post a comment from someone who “has such great knowledge of their business” but is not involved. WHINK, WHINK. “I don’t know if it still occurs” Whatever!
August 19th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
Another thought:
Billy and Peggy Florence named two of their children after Rich and Jay. I wonder how their heart feels now that the children have taken over the Alticor corporation. It saddens me to see such happenings. Can you imagine that anyone would not see how Billy & Peggy loved the business? My heart goes out to them.
August 19th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
#786
Hi TEX again, Here are the comments by the moderator of the forum @ freetheibo.
http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=180Mr.
You may have noticed I deleted four of Tex’s posts, which were all sent at approximately the same time on Saturday, only because they appeared redundant and really didn’t add value to the discourse. I apologize to everyone for having to do that. We really want to encourge the open and free exchange of ideas here. However, I must ask everyone to try to be considerate when posting. Tex, we all got your point.
Sincerely,
Moderator
August 19th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
think about your future,if quixtar lose in court you must to go another job,,,,,,amway we’re people who thinks we’re not stu….
team sistem show me how to build my business fast and make some money to see this work and start to buy products,there helping you quixtar stop to be a cry baby be a leader corp.
my kids have quixtar in his life,but trust me i because TEAM show me values,not you whit your sa8,,,if you dont care abuot all of us(TEAM)our son’s,my family what i can expect from you thank you to stop me….GOD PERMISSION IT’S WHAT I NEED,,,i must go to find the future to mi kid’s,,,i dont need another FIDEL CASTRO RULES,THIS IS A FREEDOM COUNTRY…………..GOD BLESS YOU ALL.
SORRY IF A DON’T WRITE VERY GOOD,BUT I DO MY BEST
August 19th, 2007 at 11:00 pm
HSW, Valley of Dry Bones, Rico: The links you each provided appear repeatedly throughout this blog.
Paul Meyers: Great post, but we need it shorter, say 2-3 paragraphs, give or take. We’ve been asking that of everybody moving forward.
Eric R: A link to the article you provided would be more appropriate than copying the text in its entirety. Please submit a link to this instead if you are able.
Betrayed, Steve: Getting confirmation from legal. Stay tuned.
August 19th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
After receiving my ultimatum letter from Gary VanderVen at 7:52 pm Friday, I cannot help but wonder if the cast and crew at Alticor have all taken crazy pills. What on earth is going on with you people?
If this is how you treat loyal IBOs who have agressively defended the Quixtar/Amway name, and promoted and consumed literally tens of thousands of dollars of products, then I think each and every IBO out there had better take warning. Some is just not right here.
August 20th, 2007 at 12:12 am
There’s an old saying that goes something like this:
“You don’t know what you don’t know.”
The following statement might also apply:
“You don’t know that you don’t know.”
If you’re part of a motivational system, such as TEAM, Network 21, Britt Worldwide, etc., and you’re only familiar with this business from within that system, then you have no idea what it’s like to be an IBO outside that system. For that matter you most likely don’t know that there is a difference.
I am one of those IBOs who does not belong to a motivational system. Quixtar calls us “Independents.” We are often very product focused and build a balanced business of sponsoring and retailing. I tried being part of a motivational system for a few years, was totally sold on it during that time, but left when I learned of their true objectives. Great people; I just didn’t agree with their business building methods.
I read TEAM’s lawsuit against Quixtar and had to smile a lot. The lawsuit says the “. . .products are priced so high they cannot be sold . . .” But I routinely have personal retail sales of $3,000 to $4,000 a month from repeat customers.
So why are the prices too high for you but not for my customers?
[to be continued]
August 20th, 2007 at 12:37 am
[continued from previous post]
When I’m talking about products, I don’t mean diapers, paper goods, or anything else in the Options section of the Choices catalog. Those products are not made by Quixtar; they have certain marketing costs already built into them before they get to Quixtar, then Quixtar has to cover their overhead and bonus payments.
The products my customers buy are: Nutrilite, water filters, SA8, LOC, Artistry, Glister, and Body Series. Products made by Access Business Group which are exclusive to our business. They are top quality products that do what they claim they do, and that are not sold in stores. My customers buy these products because the benefits of the product were explained to them. They were encouraged to try the product and offered a money-back guarantee.
Were the benefits of the individual products explained to you? Or were you pretty much told to change your buying habits, shop from your own business and you’ll get PV/BV?
Did anyone give you sales training on how to sell the products? How much time is spent at your meetings doing product demonstrations and explaining WHY these products sometimes cost more? (Not the diapers!)
My sponsors spent over half the meeting doing product training. It’s paid off handsomely with repeat retail customers that have used our products for decades.
[more later, it’s bedtime!]
August 20th, 2007 at 12:46 am
djz #809,
I think you meant to refer to #802 (I think the numbering sometimes changes as well), but your point is well taken.
The tool profits given to the Platinums and above are NOT non-profit, they come out of our pockets and go into the Platinum and above pockets. One TEAM poster on the freetheibo forum indicated they expect to make more on tools than Quixtar when they get to the Platinum level.
This results in most IBO’s operating at a net loss until the Platinum level is reached, virtually guaranteeing most IBO’s operate at a net loss until a high PV level is attained.
Some may say you should retail to make more profit to pay for tools, but this is NOT how the marketing plan is shown, or you would get very few prospects signing up.
August 20th, 2007 at 1:32 am
#707 I truley wish 50% of all Team IBO’s were on system! If you are on the Team and have half of your IBO’s on system, please tell me your secret. I am very serious, that would change the face of this nation so much quicker. Orrin divides the system money with all platinums and above. It’s the fairest plan out there. We all get the best speakers on our cd’s, all those diamonds putting their knowledge out there for us to build our businesses with, and then they share the profits with all the little people building the business.
On the issue of stacking, when the math is done, it accually cost Quixtar more money out of their pockets. There are very few people at the 0% bracket on the Team. could this be why it is a problem for them?
August 20th, 2007 at 2:14 am
748 (Jefe) your awesome! Thankyou, it was good to smile and laugh when reading though all the blogs. Your humor was refreshing.
August 20th, 2007 at 8:43 am
I tend to be more emotional than logically. But some of my corporate logical training is kicking in here. Would y’all agree there are some changes going on? Are you familiar with the principles taught in Project Management regarding the Stage of Adjusting to Change? Starts at with the OLD WAY and moves through > Denial (trying to maintain the status quo) > Resistance (anger, frustration, apathy, conflict, passive or agressive behavior) > Exploration (looking at options, seeking solutions, ask for information & referrals) > Commitment (successful adaptation to new environment, know what my options are and I’m ready to move forward > and ends with NEW WAY always look ahead … be clear on your objectives. And then be prepared for the next change cycle to come around, because it will. Change is a constant part of life.
We all have the responsibility to be a Change Agent as we manage this change in our lives. These are the predictable and necessary states of team development: 1. Forming (Issues: inclusion and trust), 2. Storming (Issues: power, control, and influence), 3. Norming (issues: affection and intimacy), 4. Performing (no major issues), 5. Adjourning (loss and separation, lessons learned, closure) >>> move forward >>> adjust to change.
All the best to each of you as you manage through this change and come to the decision on how you want to move forward. This comes from the book, The Ultimate Gift by Jim Stovall “I finally know that joy does not come from avoiding a problem or having someone else deal with it. Joy comes from overcoming a problem or simply learning to live with it while being joyful.” There is another story I turn to during challenging times called, “A Picture of Peace” which is about a King who offered a prize to the artist who would paint the best picture of peace. You can google on ‘A PICTURE OF PEACE’ and read it if you’re interested. Change is the one constant in life. Peace and joy be with you and yours as you manage change all the days of your lives
August 20th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Amanda #826,
Have you done the math on 10 deep versus 10 wide? It’s the same amount of money, divided up differently. Now I understand your compliment of Jefe’s nonsense.
Z4yall #828,
Looks like Orrin and his “buddies” never got past Denial, and don’t adjust to change very effectively. Anyone who looks up to him and the other so-called leaders should reconsider who they follow, according to your analysis.
Another concept overlooked is the issue of truth/honesty. What is the truth of the tool profits, as they are known to create FAR more profit for the upline than the A/Q products?
Where is the honest answer?
This question has been asked on the freetheibo forum (TEAM) and the IBOAI forum, both of whom are capable of answering the question. What’s the honest, truthful answer?
August 20th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
rnffemt said: (A non-profit system where the money is distributed among all IBO’s who are performing) and if you perform more than Chris or Orrin you make MORE!! HUH? Guess that’s just too fair for Quixtar…
Piet says: Team shares from platinum upwards, Quixtar shares from 200PV up?
Now which is the fairer of the two?
August 20th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Drew: My first question: You posted a link, commenting that it was a *true* insider view. I was just wondering whether you are then insinuating that the Quixtar management wasn’t there?
Secondly, you say they were concerned about the name change, hence the lawsuit. But the lawsuit is not about the name change, it is about Team trying to get their group of IBO’s from Q. Which group they built using Q’s products, Q’s distribution infrastructure, Q’s compensation administration infrastructure, Q’s R&D, and Q’s relationships with preferred partner stores.
And you think it is fair to expect from Q to just throw up their hands and let them go? Remember, regardless of what TEAM might have told you, it is in the first instance a Quixtar opprtunity, they have been nurturing it for fifty years. Quixtar is the one that you and your IBO-downline have a legal agreement with. And Q is just honouring their part of the agreement, by protecting the small IBO, from their diamonds trying to go down a different/wrong path.
And now TEAM is biting the hand that fed it all these years, and are acting surprised that the hand has slapped them back.
Woodward et al are espousing a low priced, commodity based system, where as Q is exactly the opposite - high quality, premium products. Woodward owes it to his existing downline to first go out and build what he dreams about, and then after two years, if he is still in business, he is then free to approach his existing downline, in terms of his IBO contract.
August 20th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Oh my, this stinks from the top down. No fewer than 6 of the 20 members of the IBOAI board have resigned now.
I agree that the IBOAI has been neutered and is “at best” a puppet of Alticor.
Don’t believe me, please read “http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/index.php/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,91/func,view/id,5612/catid,27/” from Bill Newton who resigned on Thursday, August 16.
Quixtar is a worse house of cards than I thought and the winds of change are coming.
August 20th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
YES!!!!!! Im so glad Orrin has fanaly got what he deserves!! Hes a cold face lier!!So Is Chris! They tell you at their meetings, “We are not amway”! WHAT! Quixtar is from the same family same everything! He has told young people to drop college, that his plan is the way! This plan can and will not work! Orrind and chris have became rich seling dreams,tapes,books and tickets to seminars! He a bad man. He has brain washed his cult so bad that they defend him after he has screwed them! I would like to see more then 3 checks for more then 300.00 from sombody in his cult! You wont see that! because they are all 2.00-7.00 checks! Orrin and chris both no this plan doesnt work! that will make you keep buying brainwash tools and make them rich! I have seen tod members lose friends,jobs and even wives over this B.S.!! All i can say Is shame on you Orrin! Your Greed is getting the best of you now! Hope you get a cell with a guy named bubba, who gave your scam a chance before he had to rob a liq store to pay his bills!! lol
August 20th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Piet #830,
Quixtar shares above 100 PV.
Add the fact the level of profit from Quixtar is a known amount, and the tool systems lose, 2-0.
August 20th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
to get off of auto renewal just delete your credit card info. thats what i did and its still off
August 20th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
I think it is highly unethical to steal IBOs crossline as is done by members of TEAM. I myself (already an IBO) was contacted and encouraged to leave my group and join TEAM. I was even told that they do this all the time and it’s no big deal. I couldn’t make myself do it. I didn’t want my diamond speech to reflect something so unethical. And now I am glad. I could never be in a group that is like that.
August 20th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
What has the leaders of World Wide Dream Builders have to say about everything that is going on and especially about the name change? I have been inactive for the past year but I still get the emails from Quixtar and was shocked to read about the law suit. It seems to me that WWDB teaches to build the business completely opposite from what I’ve read about the TEAM. We are taught to build width and to have at least 10 retail customers as quickly as possible. The costs of our functions, books, and CD’s are very low. Almost all of our literature is downloadable for free. Also our leaders don’t write the books. But now I wonder if the higher pins make any money from the tools and functions. They say they don’t but I guess I’ll have to go Diamond to know for sure.
Now that the name will be changing back to Amway I don’t plan on renewing in September. The Amway blog has a press release from Steve and Doug about why they decided to change the name back. Everyone should read it.
http://amwaynews.alticorblogs.com/
Below is an excerpt from the press release that I found very interesting.
“Research has shown us that the Quixtar name is weaker and less known in the U.S. and Canada than we ever expected. Meanwhile, even eight years after leaving North America, the Amway name is stronger and better known than we realized.
Are there still reputation challenges associated with the name in the U.S? Yes. But there is also clear evidence that the negatives are dissipating – and that we can turn those negatives around.”
I would much rather educate someone about the unknown then try to battle the negative Amway reputation.
August 20th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Its amazing how much time people are spending here. If you put this same time and effort into your own business… well nevermind, just more people for me to talk to before you do. Oh, Team payments start at 2 teams (or legs) of 12 each on system. Doesn’t matter what pv is. Best of luck to all, GET OFF YOUR BUTTS AND GO SHOW A PLAN.
August 20th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
I’m still in shock at all this! We were involved with the TEAM of Destiny for almost 2 years(AKA The Team, and now TEAM). We bought($ literally $) into the whole idea. We got on the system (required for ‘real’ business builders) of 2 tapes a week (of the same ol rags to riches story, just different speakers), monthly seminar tickets ($25 each, plus the cost of travel/food/babysitter, etc.) and the BIG convention tickets ($90 each plus the costs of travel/hotel/food/babysitter, etc.) We truly beleieved in the plan and the simplicity of just converting everyone’s buying habits to buying through their own business, which is EXACTLY what the business of being an IBO is all about! However, by the time people were done paying for the requirements of the system, they couldn’t afford to buy the products. We kept ourselves on the ‘Ditto’ program, getting all our household needs automatically once a month, which was great, but with noone else able to afford any products, and them falling short of keeping up with the system, the business was going no where. We finally saw the light when after spending all of our time traveling (across the country, literally) to “Show The Plan”, we had spent too much time away from our own Actual Money-Making Business, and lost our Major contract and had to re-evaluate our focus where it was worth it. We spent many seminars listening to Orrin, Chris, Tim Marks, and a “select few” others brag about the GREAT Wealth to be made by The Team of Destiny (oops I mean The Team, now TEAM…name changes after we left,why all the name changes?), and saw how they were worshipped like Celebrities and Gods, and finally called it quits. We rebuilt our Original Business and have since opened our own Retail Store soon to be a Franchised venture for others. There are other ways to create your own Wealth than following whole heartedly the “Promises” of those lost in the Greed! Start your OWN Business!!
August 20th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
Re Tex 829
You seem to have missed the boat on the tools system and the value they bring. With no education system we stay the way we are. Everything in life is perspective we don’t see the world the way it is we see the world we are. The right education and information is invaluable. You can’t expect to move beyond where you are in life without gaining knowledge it’s impossible. The education system the Team offered is on of the best in the industry and many people have made significant changes to their quality of life with it regardless if they ever build the business. The type of system the Team has created is invaluable and can take anyone to any level they choose in life (if applied. They should make money from it!Also education to build the opportunity that has proven itself effective for a long period of time is priceless. Without the system there really is no opportunity the system builds the people and the people build the business.
You may want to look at other success coaching programs out there and the enormous fees they charge, I have paid 3500.00 for a two day seminar and 1500.00 for 8 CD sets becasue I wanted the information and it was relevant to what I was doing.
The systems the Team had in place are really very inexpensive and invaluable. How much have have you spent on college or university before thousands of dollars are eagerly handed over to insitutions for programs that couldn’t even begin to give you the value the Team system could, so what you can get a job and right away limit your potential, even still that education doesn’t guarantee you get a job just the opportunity to qualify for a shot at it.
People also need to realize that it takes money to get CD’S and DVD’s produced as well as have people sort through the myriod of books avialble and source and create the trining materials required to build the business.
So they make money on the system and I get to pay them for their experiences and understanding at how to build this business, as well as learn how to get my finances, health, relationship and many other personal areas in my life fixed and have the opportunity to build a business that I can make as much money from as I want, GOOD for them, sign me up. I’LL TAKE TWO.
August 20th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
Amanda (826)
Well, no I’m not on TEAM and not even an IBO. This may sound quite strange, but I’ve found it quite an interesting hobby following the whole debate about Q.
Close friends of mine were caught up with Q and TEAM in mid 2005, and a few months into it they ask me to consider it.
If you don’t understand that there’s even a debate about Q or TEAM, you haven’t really been paying attention, or just perhaps fixed on the teaching of Orrin and company.
The point of estimating or guessing the percentage of people who are ON system was to create a math-model of the revenue that Orrin enjoys from the tool system.
Sure it’s a guess. 50% on system? 40%? Pick a number, and then multiply is by how many people are on the TEAM. (Of course, that is another guess at best)
A few TEAM people I’ve talked to seem to think 50% is a reasonable guess, but your mileage may differ.
20% with 100,000 people equals 20,000 people on standing order.
30% with 75,000 people ~ 22,500 on standing order.
And how about that big goal of “one million TEAM IBOs” yeee-haaa. Think of the tool revenue in that scenario!
Point is it’s thousands of CDs per week. The net proceeds (read PROFIT) per CD is staggering; consider the minimal cost of production: we’re talking $0.28/CD is cost.
When the statement is made from leadership of TEAM that “we don’t succeed unless you succeed” is at best misleading, but more accurately (IMHO) described as straight out fibbing.
Also worthy of some deep thinking is that Orrin’s training system is more clearly an illegal pryamid scheme to itself! If getting people ON system is THE goal of platinums and above, and everyone knows that MONEY is made once you achieve that level…me thinks that this falls into the governments definition of an illegal self-consuming pryamid.
Like I’ve said here before: turn off that CD player for a week to clear that head. Sit down and understand the cash flow of this opportunity.
Review the percentages of how many actually qualify as platiniums and above. (see http://www.thisbiznow.com/quixtar/ibo_statistics.html ) for the numbers. You’ll find that only 17 people in 10,000 acheived platinum…and that percentage is someone consistent for many many years.
The way to may honest money with Q is retailing product. Not many are really good at retailing…so, you results depend on that talent.
Good luck!
August 20th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
A NUTRAL MODERATOR WOULD BE NICE FOR THIS SIGHT
THERE IS MORE WORDS LET IN FROM THE EMPIRES FOLLOWERS THAN THE FREEDOM FIGHTERS..DEAR MODERATOR KEEP EVERYONE AT 2 TO 3 SENTENCES FROM BOTH SIDES.. THAT WOULD BE NICE
August 20th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
does anyone know were I can find the information about why Rich and Jay left nutrilite, for the unfair practices?
August 20th, 2007 at 11:03 pm
Yes, I have been dubbed, lied to, and brainwashed by Legacy/Team. As an IBO for 10+ years, I was constantly told by the organization and henced believed, that the company we were affiliated with was the most professional, ethical and most highly respected company that anyone could ever hope to be associated with. Glad the smoke cleared and my eyes have been opened. Goodby Amway/Quixtar/Alticor. As you have requested(”Just go, Team”), I will go.
August 21st, 2007 at 12:31 am
Just Read This
http://www.amquix.info/quixtar_iboia_secrets.html
August 21st, 2007 at 12:53 am
Everyone needs to move on with life. What’s been done-has been done.
IBO’s who are actively showing the plan–continue doing what you do best, go out there and share the dreams.
IBO’s who does nothing but complain–get mentally tough, and do something with your life.
What ever happens with your job or business remember, When’s the last time your biz or the corp. you’re working with, built a millionaire?
The Alticor Family built many.
This business is for everyone-but everyone is not for this business.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:19 am
Go back to the name Amway - you gotta be kidding! We tried building a business with Amway many years ago, but found that most people were completely turned off by that name. The only reason we purchased the Amway products was to try to build the business but found it very difficult to retail the products because of the high prices. We recently joined TEAM/Legacy and have been totally impressed with the honesty and integrity of the leadership and, you bet, we’re going to follow our TEAM.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:10 am
Quixtar’s recent actions raised a significant question in my mind: “am I an employee of Quixtar? Quixtar leads us to believe we are independent contractors so they can shrug the expense and responsibilities of hiring a sales force. An understandable business decision; however, the trade off is that there are limits to the control the company can exert on the means and manner with which the independent contractors work.
There are specific criteria to determine whether someone is an employee or independent contractor set up by the IRS. These criteria determine employment status regardless of whether the intention was to be an employee or not. Let’s go through them. One, my downline belongs to Quixtar, not me (at least according to the company). Two, I can only use Quixtar approved materials to conduct my business. Three, Quixtar controls how I build my business. Four, my business is managed and conducted through software controlled and owned by Quixtar.
Since I am building Quixtar’s business and not my own and Quixtar controls how I build the business, I now believe that I am an employee of Quixtar and not an independent contractor as Quixtar has lead me to believe; and therefore have rights as an employee, including but not limited to just compensation for the time spent working for the company. In recent years, Congress wished to curb the abuse companies had given their sales forces by making laws that stop them from having a significant percentage of their salespeople unable to make minimum wage. Sales forces like Nordstrom’s and Countrywide’s have been among those who successful sued their companies under the new laws. According to Quixtar, the average IBO receives $115 in rebate and commission (I assume it is mostly rebate). This is hardly just compensation. Now as independent contractors, this is just tough luck; however, since Quixtar controls the means and manner of how we run our businesses, that control has a price and it is called employer/employee relationships.
If Quixtar is going to control and own my business, then as my employer they have responsibilities. However, if they are denying that responsibility, they should take their nose out of my business. As and Independent Business Owner, I should be able to affiliate with whomever I chose and to work in whatever manner I chose within the law.
Quixtar’s actions say: “DeVos is my Boss”.
Reluctant Employee
August 21st, 2007 at 2:21 am
#843
Your post makes no sense. Could you clarify?
August 21st, 2007 at 3:31 am
Hi Chris! (842)
Why did Rich and Jay leave Nutrilite?
I don’t believe that they ever left Nutrilite.
My father was 3 downline from Ja-Ri in Nutrilite AND Amway in 1960, so I have always paid attention to this history.
Here’s the story.
There were two entities with Nutrilite. (1) Nutrilite Corp. and (2) Meitinger and Cassleberry who owned or were responsible for the distribution and the distributor organization. (Maybe M and C had an arrangement, initially, with Carl Rehnborg, Nutrilite’s founder, to market XX through a distributor organization. As I recall, M and C had nothing to do with manufacturing, and Nutrilite had nothing to do with distribution.
Around 1958, the two entities had arguments about their arrangement (maybe $$!!!), and, for a while, M and C couldn’t get XX for the distributor organization. All of the distributors were upset, of course, so Rich and Jay decided that they needed to start a new business so that they could count on having a product to market. They, of course, did not want to lose the organization (Dutt, Victor, Hansen, Crecelius, Teitsma, Delisle, etc.) that they had built because of problems between N and M & C.
etc.
The lines of sponsorship that Rich and Jay had in Nutrilite remained the same in Amway. But people outside of Ja-Ri, for example, Ja-Ri’s sponsors, Neil and Charlotte Maaskant from Chicago (Jay’s aunt and uncle as I recall) asked if they could sell Amway too, so Rich and Jay brought many people in from Nutrilite with the original lines of sponsorship that had been set up in Nutrilite, so Maaskant’s got the 3% bonus (now 4%) on the whole Ja-Ri business. The Maaskant heirs still get this money. Other lines not upline from Ja-Ri were “sponsored” by Amway (I believe that Dornan comes out of one of these), and, as I recall, the money (4% etc.) has always been given to charity. Meanwhile, Nutrilite started manufacturing again because in 1960, my dad’s sponsor sold me on the quality of XX and Nutrilite’s commitment to being the best, so I would imagine that Rich and Jay continued getting profit from both the Nutrilite business and the Amways business. My parents were in two businesses then–Amway and Nutrilite.
Eventually, Amway bought Nutrilite–1973 as I recall.
Occasionally, I would go visit my dad’s sponsors, Emeralds, Mel and Betty Sommerville, because I got into Amway in my late 20’s with another group, and they would give me perspective. He told me that when Amway bought Nutrilite, some Nutrilite distributors were upset because they weren’t excited about marketing Amway products, only XX.
August 21st, 2007 at 8:00 am
Is Q*’s actions here possibly due to what happened in the UK earlier this year?
August 21st, 2007 at 9:14 am
I haven’t read all of these posts so I don’t know if this link is there yet, but if you want to check out the story from someone who was there, go to http://crazyfunwildworld.blogspot.com/2007/08/team-letter-from-bill-newton.html
Thanks for setting the record straight Bill.
PS: noticed a few TEX messages. Tex, If spent as much time building a business as you do blogging, you’d be excited about a profit sharing program on tools. This is Free Enterprise. You have the right to be wrong.
August 21st, 2007 at 10:11 am
I guess since quixtar/Amway has terminated the great Team leaders for the reasons stated, they need to terminate all of us. We are doing the exact same thing as Orrin, Chris and Billy when building our teams. I think time will prove the Team leader do have integrity and are doing whats best for the people. I really think this is the beginning of the end of Amway/Quixtar. Everyone not involved with Team now knows the true colors of the Amway/Quixtar leadership. The e-mail said the Team was not letting people know they were getting involved with Quixtar. That is not the truth, anyone filling out the signup form knows they are in Quixtar. What really gives it away is when you get your Quixtar IBO card and catalogs in the mail. Get real, if your going to get rid of these leader tell the truth about WHY. Its because they are BIG LEADERS and Quixtar is afraid of the power of this huge team they are building. This same thing came up with Dexter years ago. We don’t make the quixtar products and pricing the main part of the plan because no one would get involved. I think Quixtar knows that Orrin and the Team can take any good products with good prices and build it to levels never seen in this industry before. The key to a great plan to help large numbers of people to become very successful is to combine a good product mix with a great system, Now the Team has one of those. The Amway/Quixtar part of the plan is the hardest part to overcome. So I say, goodbye Quixtar.
August 21st, 2007 at 10:55 am
I find it very ironic that TEAM is accusing Quixtar of being an illegal pyramid because of their “overpriced” products and non-compete rule. If anything smells of an illegal pyramid it would be the TEAM approach and strategies building the business.
I’d encourage everyone to read the actual lawsuit - its almost as if they’re describing their exact business.
http://team_orrin_woodward.typepad.com/orrin_woodward/files/Complaint.pdf
In the lawsuit, TEAM states “Quixtar advises IBOs to self consume instead of Retail.” “…Quixtar distributors are instructed to not waste their time selling the Quixtar products to retail consumers, because it simply cannot be done.”
Both of these statements quoted from the actual class action lawsuit are complete lies!
If I were a bettin’ man, I’d say that TEAM is the one that “advises” not to retail.
Before reading the actual lawsuit, I thought Team & Co. were people with integrity, but by evidence of these few statements (and there are more) they aren’t shooting as straight as they would like everyone to believe.
If retailing products “simply can not be done”, than what did all of TEAM do in regards to the 10 Client Rule? I’m pretty sure I know the answer, but it certainly points out another integrity issue in my mind.
August 21st, 2007 at 11:15 am
Here is what some of us who are not a part of TEAM sees at the forefront. (With these issues being a part of TEAM or not is irrelevant)
The decision back to Amway without the IBOAI being present or the views of IBOs in the field being taken into consideration, the pricing issue on the products, a valid and warranted concern ignored by the corporation, the corporation working with and approving Team’s approach to building depth prior to this situation and now disapproving Team’s approach, and the increasing control of the corporation over the IBOs with these and other issues.
It appears that things are moving further in the direction of a dictatorship as though the IBO were an employee. Maybe the second generation DeVos & VanAndel families actually want to eliminate all IBOs either by their resigning or being terminated, operate as a manufacturing-marketing-distribution company, and pocket the money from all bonuses & incentives once paid to IBOs.
The Distributors of Amway have “always” had a voice that was listened to and heard by Rich DeVos and Jay VanAndel. The answer to all of this is for the second generation DeVos’s & VanAndel’s to keep the same values, principles, and care for the IBO as their fathers Rich & Jay did for all those years.
August 21st, 2007 at 12:07 pm
clovea, that’s not true about World Wide Dream Builders. They do make money, but a lot of it goes to buying technologies (website’s & communicate & e office), training locations for ibo’s, incentives other organizations don’t get (like the river & diamond incentive bonus, taiste of diamond trips for new qual emeralds), 75 employee’s at WWDB headquarters that handle US & International ops, the list goes on……
The diamonds due make money, it’s just evenly distributed. Other orgs the head diamond would give a different cut on the system based on whether he liked you or not. Ron has given WWDB back to all the diamonds and they all own equal shares and when a new diamond qualifies the other diamonds give up shares and distribute. It is a debt free. From what I understand, they (WWDB diamonds) do not make any money off the Books & CDs. If the newest premier member get them at close to cost and cds for 2.50 cents. If the new ibo has a new member on premier, then he gets the cds for 2.5 cents (videos for 7.5). If the member isn’t on premier the cds are 7.00$ and videos are 18.00. the ibo makes a difference, even if he is brand new. WWDB does not make that mark up.
August 21st, 2007 at 12:33 pm
That’s why you have a lot of diamonds in other organizations starting systems. I believe Big Apple, you can build the business to Ruby level with out a system or a shell of a system. If you found six folks that this was all they wanted to do (and would be willing to go to work every day)is go diamond and build this business, you can go to higher levels.
If you are going to build an organization that duplicates all over the world and never goes backwords, you are going to need a system. knowledge is power and the system duplicates your time and teaches how to build properly(duplicates your time). Yeah, money is made also, but there is some shining examples that handle the tool/money made from systems very well.
August 21st, 2007 at 12:42 pm
99.99 of the books on our list have been bought 20 to 40 million copies outside our system. Twenty of the top diamond businesses read each book and if one diamond says no, they don’t put it on the list. It’s reviewed each year. Checks & balances.
WWDB does not create a system and write all the books on there list and then sell them to there ibos. Dare to discipline, 21 irrefutable laws of success, how to win friends in influence people, ogmandino, etc….
The cds do get made from people in the system. But John Maxwell can’t teach more effectively about this business than a brand new 4000 pin could. You can’t teach what you haven’t done. He can give us insite into leadership, that’s why he is on our list. This is why the system works. Just because you plug into the system, doesn’t mean you will build the business. You have to work and work hard (part time of course). Big business, small business, clients. A strong foundation. If you spent a lot of money in the business, you never legitimized your business (thru clients). It should take your less than 90 days to fund your business, 180 if you slow like me. You’ll never have to use your money again. You were hoping to find some sharp guy and he would make you rich. The comp plan don’t work that way.
August 21st, 2007 at 12:55 pm
SHAME ON ALL OF YOU! Bottom line, none of us know what really went on between TEAM and Quixtar except those present. Who knows who is really in the wrong. But one thing is certain. Orrin and the whole TEAM organization should not, have not and will not bad mouth Quixtar, will not behave in an unprofesional, low class and petty level. TEAM has been instructed to respect Quixtar and it is business as usual as far as TEAM IBOs are concerned until the judge reaches a verdict. At such point TEAM will continue to respect all parties involved and comply with the judge’s decision. Do careful research and see who is retaliating, being petty, unprofessional and acting like children in a school yard. Based on current reactions and behavior, make your decision as to who is the better of the 2 parties involved. Who has better character, morals and business ethics? We can’t always control what happens to us or how someone treats us. However, true character is revealed by how a person/organization/company reacts. If this had happened to you, how would you have liked to have been notified? What would you have liked to be written about you on the internet? If it happened between TEAM and Quixtar it could happen between you and Quixtar or you and TEAM. Who is reacting the best? Let’s pretend this was you. Do you like what TEAM is writing and throwing out there on the internet or do you like what Qixtar is putting out there? Think folks. This can happen again and it can happen to anyone. Good luck to all involved.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:40 pm
n2win,
You have the right to be wrong as well. How can I possibly be “wrong” when all I am doing is asking honest and straightforward questions?
Jeff,
They don’t have to terminate me, I am not doing what TEAM is doing.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:56 pm
Amanda and everyone,
Please read the Business Reference Guide to understand how the money in Quixtar/Amway is made. The first few pages.
https://www.quixtar.com/documents/iwov/vis/010-en/pdf/LA1015.pdf
Quixtar ALWAYS pays out 25% (at least. More for Rubyships) in Performance Bonus money to a Platinumship.
How that money is distributed within the Platinumship depends on
1) what bonus bracket each leg of the Platinum’s downline is in
2) if the downline has fulfilled the Customer Volume Requirement–CRV (look in the Glossary of the Biz Ref Guide, page E-2).
If you do 50 PV in personal use, and you stack 149 people down one leg and they are all doing 50PV, that equals 7,500 PV. That qualifies you as a Silver/Platinum and you get 25% on ALL that volume. If the BV is a 2.9 ratio, then you get 25% on 21,750 = $5,437.50
If you do 100 PV in personal use, and you stack 74 people down one leg and they are all doing 100PV, that equals 7,500 PV. That qualifies you as a Silver/Platinum.
If no one in that leg fulfills the CVR by:
a) having 10 retail customers
b) doing 50 PV is customer volume
or
c) doing $100 in customer volume
then everyone will get a bonus of 3% back on their personal use volume, but ALL the other bonus money, 22% (25% - 3%), goes directly to the Platinum. If the BV is a 2.9 ratio, then you get 22% on 21,750 = $4,785.
There is ALWAYS a Platinum upline. So Quixtar is always paying out 25% in Performance Bonus money.
Hope this clears up the misconception that Quixtar makes more profit is someone is only running 50, 100, or whatever PV.
As a Platinum, knowing that you benefit greatly if your group doesn’t retail, it would be unethical not to teach retail to your group, don’t you think?
August 21st, 2007 at 3:44 pm
n2win,
thank you thank you for the “crazyfunwildworld” sight, it is a must read both Bill Newtons letter who was an IBOA member but also Chuck Geotschel who also was a IBOA member and he had the second team out of Quixtar that did the Quixtar Accreditation Program, some very important facts!!!!!
August 21st, 2007 at 4:27 pm
Bridgett,
I think you are mistaken. If you have one leg that is all depth, you CANNOT be a Platinum. You are a Silver, and not in qualification for Gold/Platinum until you get some side volume. You will earn 25% off YOUR personal purchases, including sales to customers, the rest of the money goes down the leg.
Let’s say you have 3 such legs, all in depth. Now you are an Emerald, and get the 4% bonus instead of the 25-27% bonus calculation.
Quixtar, please enter this conversation and correct me if I am wrong.
August 21st, 2007 at 5:04 pm
TO THE ADMIN OF POST:
YOU TOOK OFF Matthew’s Post to “DAD”
But yet you let him put up his garbage all over that is not FACT or even correct topic information.
WHO ARE YOU ADMIN???
You are probably just doing your job but you need to understand YOU DON’T what you DON’t Know….YOU KNOW!!!
DAD DOESN’T KNOW just like a lot more other people who post comments against the “TEAM” they know nothing about.
There has been a big mistake in posting this blog anyway. The relationship that TEAM allowed Alticor to profit so greatly for the past 8-9years is something that was Great for Alticor but the best is yet to be shown when honesty will “WIN” THE Greatest TEAM of All will Shine the brightest…Free Enterprise does not exist after what happened in the alteration in contracts by Alticor and changing of names without the courtesy to notify the IBO’s that were so loyal to their opportunity of FREE ENTERPRISE/Quixtar. TEAM is Keeping Free Enterprise alive and whether you see it or not it will be known that Free Enterprise will LIVE STRONG because of the TEAM, not because of the founding principles that Founded the original AMWAY which once stood strong for the IBO’s and the People involved.
Thanks to all the ones who do their research by just showing up to a Tuesday night Open by the TEAM and finding out the principles and techniques to be proven with posture and integrity from those who have the FRUIT on the tree and who are willing to show you that Free ENTERPRISE LIVES Among THE “TEAM”
August 21st, 2007 at 5:14 pm
861, bridget “If you do 50 PV in personal use, and you stack 149 people down one leg and they are all doing 50PV, that equals 7,500 PV. That qualifies you as a Silver/Platinum and you get 25% on ALL that volume. If the BV is a 2.9 ratio, then you get 25% on 21,750 = $5,437.50″
I have to say you are in accurate on your numbers, if you do 50 pv and in one leg you have 149 people doing 50 pv you would be at 7500 points with a 25% payout and your downline would be at 7450 with a 23% payout leaving a 2% differencial plus your personal points at 25% for a total of $468.35
August 21st, 2007 at 5:16 pm
MIKE…..I could tell you were in WWDB. Your responses show alot of class. Tell me then, what is WWDB opionin about going back to the Amway name? Considering that a press release was posted yesterday stating that XS will continue to be exclusive to Quixtar and I know that Greg Duncan and Dave Severn are part owners of XS, to me that is a sign that they DON’T agree with the name change.
August 21st, 2007 at 8:03 pm
TEAM will survive very well and long…due to it’s inherent character and integrity.
August 21st, 2007 at 10:32 pm
mike #816
Again sorry for the late response, been really busy! Thanks for your comments, I’m happy to read that you are a Christian also.
I’m glad we agree on one thing, your words “what I have found, the more promotion of religion, the less leadership skills an IBO has”. I’m not sure where that statistic comes from but you see I wasn’t talking about the promotion of religion, I am talking about your personal relationship with Jesus Christ our Saviour. I believe He came to get rid of the promotion of religion also!!
You stated “Once you know particular leaders well enough, they and you will talk about what you believe; it is inevitable. But you should not be pressing folks or pushing your beliefs on folks using this business model.”……I’m not exactly sure where in my post I stated when, where, or how I witness to my downline.
You state, “If you become friends and they allow you to talk about such things (personal time). Then great. I am a cristian and if some one wants to know, I tell them or get them a bible or get them to church. I don’t use the business to push my beliefs.”…..But with all due respect I prefer to use the DISCERNMENT that the Holy Spirit has given me in order to fulfill this purpose (His timing, His place, and His methods) not just use some man made formula. Nor am I afraid to lose prospects or business partners if the Holy Spirit leads me to witness to them, because I believe the more I am obedient to what He is asking me to do, the more I will be walking in His blessings, personally and in business.
You said, “Good motivational/spiritual talk. You do not need to be a christian to build this business. You should not mix the two. You can run a great business without mixing.”….I’m not sure what size organization you have so I can only speak about my own personal experience in building this business. You see, I have tried to build this business for a total of 14 years(started at only 18 years old) 10 years without Jesus as my business partner and 4 years with Him as my CEO. My results were 10 years of no sustained growth and alot of frustration. Then I was introduced to the Team, led to the Lord and reached Platinum within 2 years and within 3 years Platinum with 4 Platinums in my organization!! Guess the only common denominator was me and the only extra ordinary denominator was JESUS!!
GOD BLESS YOU AND MAY YOU PROSPER IN ALL THAT YOU DO, BUT ONLY SO OTHERS MAY SEE THE SHINING LIGHT OF JESUS THROUGH ALL THAT YOU DO!!
August 22nd, 2007 at 2:13 am
#863 Tex,
If I have a leg at 7,500 or above, then I’d need 2,500 PV outside that leg to be a Silver Producer (rather than a 25% Sponsor), and I’d be able to tap in to PART of the 4% Leadership Bonus.
But if I have a leg at 7,450 or 7,400, that leg is NOT at the 25% bonus bracket. They are not a Silver. They are at the 23% (6,000 PV) bracket.
August 22nd, 2007 at 2:18 am
continued from early post…
So the 7,450 plus my personal 50 PV would make me at 7,500–a Silver (until that leg broke from me, the moment I stacked another person).
Looking at the whole, binary thing, if I have TWO legs at 7,500 PV, and NO side volume, then I’d be a Platinum.
If I had 2,500 PV outside two 7,500 PV legs, then I’d be a Sapphire.
Emeralds don’t require any side volume.
August 22nd, 2007 at 2:35 am
#864 Chris
I said IF no one fulfills the CVR requirement, then the Platinum will make the $4,000+.
If everyone DOES fulfill the CVR requirement (which I explained in comment #861) then your $400+ figure is correct.
Guys, please, I know from EXPERIENCE about the CVR rule. This is not theory. Go online to Quixtar.com and do a PV/BV Inquiry. Next to all your group’s names, if there is an “M”, then it means that they have yet to fulfill the CVR requirement for the month.
So if Quixtar is issuing bonuses for your LOA, then those people will get a bonus back on their own personal use, and all other bonus money goes in the Platinum’s bonus check.
August 22nd, 2007 at 2:53 am
Ok Let me see how long this post stays!
The kid that wrote this had written
———
Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could.
Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.
Telling people that Quixtar was merely a “supplier,” and not the company they were signing a contract with? Yup.
—————
Wow - does that mean, any one who behaves this way will be terminated immediately?
Then what about Pranav Shah and Ashish Aurora from cleveland oh?
They did these exact same thing on a recent meeting.
Not telling people that it is quixtar - yup. Kept talking about everything else until the last moment
Making people think it was easy money - yup - can provide the transcript.
Telling people that Quixtar was merely a “supplier,” and not the company they were signing a contract with? Yup - oh yeah. Reply if you need proof.
They did not just stop there - these are from Pranav -
“We have PARTNERSHIP with circuit city, sony, b&n and etc” - you know Amway/quixtar itself prohibits IBO’s from using the term partenership for these store, because there is none.
“Do not use GOOGLE to search for quixtar” - wow that is the first I heard. So Google is not trustworthy? Then how come he said “Google stock is $505 while GM stock is $31 and that shows Google business model is trustworthy and the way to go” as started talking? He contradicts himself.
He also says “There is no way to loose money! You can make 6 figure income”
“In 6-18 months you will make $3000 to $5000″
“In 2-5 years you will make $150,000 to $200,000″
“Quixtar is cheaper than Walmart”
“Walmart does not give you a check”
Wow! Talk about misinforming people!
Hey kid! Are you gonna get these people terminated too? From your blog it seems that is the criteria for termination.
Oh yeah! They are still in Quixtar for now - I see that you wait until they leave to use these against them.
Way to go!
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:52 am
#864 Chris
Apologies. I just drew the first 20 50PV circles. Don’t have time for the other 130. But I can tell that it’s not the 4-5K that I thought. Did you draw it out? Is that how you came up with your figure?
It’s not as simple as subtracting %s, since the Platinum would get the differential for EACH IBO.
The bottom person with 50 PV, the Platinum would get the full 25% bonus, the next person gets 3% back on their 50 PV, but the Platinum gets 22% back on that 50PV, and so on…
August 22nd, 2007 at 8:26 am
People(amway,quixtar,alticor) are saying when new ibos join they are not being told they are joining quixtar. Unless you are blind, the paper signed has quixtar written all over it. Amway lost its fizzle in the ’80’s. People do not want scamway!!! Now if you must mud sling,(amway,alticar,quixtar) cleant the mud off your boots from the the last time scamway failed.
TEAM has a proven system that works!!!
Going to a million, w/o Quixtar
Going to a million, w/o Quixtar
August 22nd, 2007 at 8:52 am
Chris #840,
I didn’t miss the boat. Have you read/listen to the “Directly Speaking” recordings?
TS #854,
I can tell you what they probably did to record retail. Just like my upline Platinum taught their group, fake out the computer and record retail that was never done.
I can also tell you they don’t mention or only slightly imply retail at the Open meetings and seminars.
GoGetter #855,
I don’t think the Board “always” was in place. I think there was a period from the early to mid ’80’s where they were disbanded. Quixtar can confirm whether this is true or not.
clovesa #865,
How did you make this connection? I thought it was more of a message to TEAM, because they pushed XS so hard and have made noise on the blogs regarding taking this brand with them. Given the association with IBO’s who have so far stayed with Quixtar, it didn’t make sense for XS to leave the Quixtar product line.
Mike #857/8,
How much money do the Platinums and above from your group charge for tools? How much profit does a Platinum and above make? Include ALL tools, tapes/CD’s, downloads, web site, voice mail, opens, seminar/rallys, major functions, including speaking for other groups, etc.
Victoria #859,
I’m not impressed with either side right now, neither side has answered my questions that are needed to make a decision.
Chris #864,
Do you math again, and start from the bottom up and see how much money is left over. You don’t have to do 150 IBO’s at 50 PV, you can do 10 at 100 PV.
August 22nd, 2007 at 9:08 am
TO TEAM IBOs ONLY!!!!!
I know some of you are discouraged, confused and frustrated by some of the negativity in these blogs against TEAM. However, keep in mind that these people who are throwing negativity towards TEAM and holding up Quixtar did not receive the e-mails we, the TEAM IBOs, received from Quixtar. Having read those e-mails we have seen a different side of that corporation. These people siding with Quixtar have not. As far as they are concerned and to the best of their knowledge, Quixtar is an outstanding, professional company looking out for their best interest.It’s not our place to tell them otherwise. This has nothing to do with them, it’s a conflict between TEAM and Quixtar. We, since we are in the midst of it all, know what really happened. They are reacting to what they think is true and what they have been told. If what they’ve been told had been true then you’d agree that they are reacting appropriately, wouldn’t you agree and wouldn’t you react the same? I ask you again, please be patient and understanding. Hopefully it will never be a reality for them but if at some point it’s their turn they get those types of e-mails or phone calls, then they will understand the true nature of things. But it’s not our place to enlightened them, it’s not our job, duty or otherwise as some of you may think. As far as “educating” them, we need to mind our business. In the meantime, be content with what we know. Be encouraged by the wonderful people we are surrounded by and all we’ve accomplished thus far. If you should receive more e-mails or calls from Quixtar, remember, those people writing the e-mails or making the calls have nothing to do with all this. They have been given a job to do and are only trying to follow through with it. Treat them with respect and respect Quixtar and its members/affiliations even if at some point it becomes difficult. In part, it’s one of the things that sets us apart and makes us better, character-wise Hang in there. There’s always growth in conflit and adversity. Every business goes through something sooner or later it’s what makes us grow. Take care and remember, be understanding, because they just don’t know what really happened, patience and respectful, please.
August 22nd, 2007 at 9:50 am
I am shocked when I see “non TEAM” IBO’s who have built with Quixtar for so many years, not be offended at the way the Quixtar organization is handling the whole Quixtar vs TEAM situation. Give me a break! TEAM has been with Quixtar for 8 years, building their businesses the so called “illegal” way (that Quixtar so eliquently points out) and until Woodward and Brady call Quixtar out on several issues that are valid, it’s all been good. People, Quixtar is not acting in the best interests of IBO’s affiliated with them! Quixtar is acting in Quixtar’s best interest…PERIOD! Problem is, Quixtar is biting off their own nose to spite their face!
Finally, an organization comes along that is led by a group of people who actually are concerned for the benefit of the people in their organization and have the guts to stand up for what’s right regardless of the cost and here’s the best part, they have the leadership to unify a multiple thousand person organization to stand up with them for what’s right! That my friends is a top notch organization! That is the type of organization I want to be affiliated with. Woodward and Brady have proven they are some of the most honorable men in the industry and that can’t be disputed. You want living proof? Here it is:
Randy Haugen, Billy Florence, Fred Harteis, Claude Hamilton are some of the most respected, high character leaders in the industry and they’re standing by the TEAM as well. That’s enough for me. Quixtar can take their AMWAY pipedream and ride off into the sunset with it!
Marcus Robinson chooses to live his own life with people who are like minded that actually care about each other and will fight to the death for what they believe. Thank you TEAM for opening my eyes. I am indebted to you.
August 22nd, 2007 at 9:57 am
I cannot believe for a second that leaders would jeopardize the lifes of others.
To do the wrong things, that will impact many in a negative way.
It tells us all something, that the same leaders lacked direction. They bit the hand that feeds them.
I sincerely feel for the rest in the team affected. Hope you have someone in your upline that you can plug into that is guided and uses his common sense!
A leader in this business forgets how he became the leader sometimes and doesnt realize the fact that when they quit or do something as silly as this, not many are going to follow.
I wish I could say no one would follow as that is what they deserve.
August 22nd, 2007 at 10:05 am
to the Big Apple #823, 824
I, for one, am very proud of what you’ve been able to accomplish with your retail sales. When I saw this business, I understood it would someday be a business I could pass down to my children and theirs. I understood it could create long term ongoing income. When I was a kid we had fuller brush, avon, and others that came to sell to my Mom once a month. She loved the personalized service they provided whether it was more expensive or less did not make a difference. I would pay more for clothing if someone would bring it to my house, in my size and style, and let me try them on and pick what I want. I also have customers in this business, most that I give a big discount to or sell at IBO cost because I feel so guilty for charging so much. They buy it because its a good product and they like me. My kids would not be able to carry on that business income because they would lose all of my customers. (I know this for a fact) I don’t want another job and that is why we have a system for building depth and helping people redirect their buying habits, and sure, get a few customers while they are at it. It doesn’t create another job for me that will dissappear as soon as I do, it creates long term ongoing income that we can pass to our children. You are building a different business than we do, and we truly appreciate that and admire you for it. However, we would eventually like to get our time back and be able to spend it with our children on the beaches of the world.
August 22nd, 2007 at 10:46 am
#830 Piet Strydom
Thanks so much for responding to my post.
I know that there are figures from Quixtar regarding the number of people who go Platinum within the Quixtar business. Now, I don’t have the statistic and I would really like to know what it is (I’m sure one of you people from the corporation on here have that information), but I believe that number to be MUCH higher than what Quixtar’s averages are, and again, I can only speak from personal experience of building for 10 years before Team and never going more than 20 wide at one time to 2 years in Team and going Platinum (which some of my downline actually did faster than I did), to 3 years with 4 Platinums in my organization. And watching month after month after month additional Platinums walking across stages within the Team system upon reaching Platinum level, which I never saw in my old organization either.
I understand that Quixtar pays out at 200PV, I personally couldn’t do much with my $6.00 check, not sure how much of a difference that makes to most people either.
Also, just a question……but what if the Team profit sharing system is about to change to something bigger and better also???
August 22nd, 2007 at 11:09 am
#854 TS
You stated…”If I were a bettin’ man, I’d say that TEAM is the one that “advises” not to retail”……
I know I keep saying this same thing, but again, I can only speak from personal experience……I was in a room of hundreds of IBO ladies from the Team who were being trained in how to use the SAM (Skin Analysis Machine) in order to learn how to go out and retail Artistry products at Beauty Breaks more effectively and attempt to earn more of a profit….(What I found was that I personally usually ended up giving them my cost in order to be compliant with my M/C volume requirement and to qualify for my monthly bonuses, which according to Quixtar and a few of you on this blog have stated that we do not do.)……..I was also at the seminar when Team rolled out the DOT 1/STEP program in order to learn about XS and the Health and Wellness Products that Quixtar offered, during which they brought in people outside of Team to train us regarding these products (and I apologize now but I can’t remember who all they were, maybe someone from Team can help me)…..I was also taught by my upline to have XS available in your car wherever you go in order to attempt to retail it as much as possible!!……I personally encouraged my teams to use the gift and incentive program in order to attempt to make retail sales……And I remember my upline always encouraging us to go back a few days later to all NO’s from any plans shown and attempt to turn them into a retail client……
So, I am asking that some of you on here please stop making generalized statements regarding what the Team does or does not do without ever having been a part of our Team and not having any factual basis to back up your claims against our leaders or us……Thank you and have a blessed day.
August 22nd, 2007 at 11:11 am
I’m appalled by what I hear and read on the internet. This is certainly not Jesus way of doing things. Those of you who don’t know TEAM and have never heard of them, Be VERY careful. You have no idea who TEAM really is. There are 2 sides to this story. I have never heard of team badmouthing Quixtar or anything and Here its now being done back to them. You can go to Orrins Web site www.team_orrin_woodward.typepad.com and you will find a letter about this whole thing only He never slams Quixtar, Alticor, IBOAI or anything. He is truely a leader and an example. And someone we can be truely proud to associate with.
One last thing. To change the name back to Amway will be a stab in the back for many IBO’s Amway has a horrible taste in the mouth for millions of people. Every person we have ever talked to have heard of amway and had parents or friends in it 20 + years ago and there is no time for it. We get ask the question many many times. Is it Amway? And we say no and tell them Amway use to be the distributor but, they made some very good changes in the whole thing, How people got their money, The shipping had greatly improved , More products, Ect. So the name is bad and will hurt not only IBO’s but also Quixtar. There are getting to be for and more GOOD business oppurtunitys out there using the internet that don’t have the Amway reputation and people are looking at those. We know very successful people in other businesses. So I just wanted to put in a word of caution about name change. It will have devastating affects.
WWJD, Laura
August 22nd, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Check out this sight for more up to date information…a must read for all ibos’s.
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