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August 10th, 2007 @ 3:59 pm ET…

Just go, Team

You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.

We terminated Orrin Woodward yesterday, along with several other leaders of his field organization, named Team. We’ll post our formal statement when it’s ready. Informally, here’s the story:

We terminated Orrin Woodward for philosophical reasons. We did it for legal reasons.

But the main reason we did it is because the way Orrin Woodward ran his organization was a disgrace to every person who’s ever tried to build a Quixtar or Amway business the right way.

We have fought to clean up the reputation of our company for years. We know that one of the biggest challenges our reputation faces is misrepresentation of the Quixtar and Amway businesses to others.

And over the last several months, it became clear to us that Orrin Woodward was a poster child for a long list of bad business practices that our critics hate about our company. The other leaders we terminated – including Chris Brady, Billy Florence, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Tim Marks and Chuck Goetschel – also showed they were unwilling to reform.

Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could.

Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.

Telling people that Quixtar was merely a “supplier,” and not the company they were signing a contract with? Yup.

We’d told Woodward we had problems with the way he ran his business for years, and we worked methodically to bring those problems to resolution. We got ignored, we got lied to, and, boy, we got the runaround.

So in the end, yesterday, we tried to give him one last chance to reform.

He didn’t even want to hear his options. So we terminated him. And in return, he handed us a trumped-up, trash-talking lawsuit on his way out the door. In response, we have a temporary restraining order issued by a court that prevents him from looting the business as he seeks to take his act to a new company.

So he’s gone, and so are others. We are doing our best to repair the relationships Orrin Woodward damaged and protect the businesses of the people in his organization that Orrin Woodward betrayed. And we will continue building our business with thousands of people who know how to build it the right way.

We would say we were sorry to see Orrin Woodward go. But only if that were true.

Filed by: Corporate Communications

Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation

1087 Responses to “Just go, Team” (701 - 800 shown)

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 » Show All

  1. brian d Says:
    August 16th, 2007 at 10:29 pm

    Piet Strydom sounds like you work for Quixtar/amway, or are you building a pyramid? Good luck with that, you’ll need it !!
  2. frank Says:
    August 16th, 2007 at 10:48 pm

    i am a new distributor in greg duncans group and my sponsor has been kind enough to stack several people underneath me all in one leg, we are also strongly encouraged to sign up for the worldwide training system for tool and training at a cost to us, none of the training materials i have been lent by my sponsor were produced by the corporation. this is my second time in the business the first time was in the britt system where we also signed up for “standing order” tool purchases and paid high prices to attend four functions per year plus monthly seminars and rallys. The products are way too expensive, anyone who disagrees needs only to make an honest price comparison with like quality products. I think the new leadership in the corporation is a classic example of what happens when people are given something for nothing. at least in the case of the “terminated” leaders they are walking away from something they built with thier own blood sweat and tears, i trust the man whos character was forged on the field of battle in the living rooms and dens of america starting with nothing and building an empire rather than those who have inherited the dreams of thier fathers without having paid the price for them. it was never the corporation who built the business but rather the people who built it. No corporate employee ever sat in my living room and offered to help me build my dream, or believed in me or taught me to believe in myself, it was people. to say these men were terminated for thier practices is to indite every major line of sponsorship in this country. anyone building the business knows this is true.
  3. Super M Says:
    August 16th, 2007 at 10:51 pm

    612

    BE PATIENT, I HAVE A TICKET AND HOTEL ROOM FOR KENTUCKY AS WELL AND I AM GOING. 684 RIGHT ON!

    A LITTLE ADVERSITY DEMONSTRATES WHO WE REALLY ARE. ITS ALL PART OF THE PROCESS.

    IF WOODWARD AND BRADY ARE WILLING TO STAND UP FOR THEIR KIDS, THEY HAVE MY VOTE.

    BE PATIENT - ONE MILLION STRONG!
  4. Anne Says:
    August 16th, 2007 at 11:41 pm

    Freedom Fighter 684 The “New rule” that you allude to has been in place to my knowledge the entire 22 years I have been in see 11.1 Quixtar rules of conduct. etc for resolution sections of Corporations rules. If you go through them all you will see that every single thing that people are upset about have been agreed to by you the IBO when you sign up and when you renew. It is not affective (SIC) Sept as you state but has been “effective” all along.
  5. Dixie Says:
    August 16th, 2007 at 11:51 pm

    Unless there is a clause in our IBO contracts that binds us to Quixtar regardless of what name they use today or in the future, then they cannot enforce a contract under the company name AMWAY. They legally changed their name to AMWAY in July according to public records, which legally voided all Quixtar IBO agreements, unless they slipped in a “Romeo clause”, that by any other name…shall by legally binding…etc, without our knowledge or consent, like they did the no-compete clause 3 years ago. How can they hold me to a contract that they keep changing everytime they feel like it? They should be forced to make us sign new agreements every time they amend or change the contract. If this is too much paper work and time consuming then perhaps they should think twice before they make changes. If we do not agree to the terms of the new contract, we should be allowed to leave with no strings attached! That is all that the MIGHTY 15 are trying to say to Quixtar! Quixtar changed the contracts when they changed their name back to AMWAY! Why should we be held prisoner to that if we do not approve? Did they ask for my approval before they did it? NO. The MIGHTY 15 are protecting us by fighting this battle for us. They have the money and resources while most young IBOs do not. Their actions to request a jury decision to approve what Quixtar should have approved voluntarily will pave the way for all of us to make our choice without fear of legal actions against us, since the battle will have already been fought for us. The MIGHTY 15 are giving us the FREEDOM TO CHOOSE whether we wish to remain with AMWAY or not without legal or financial penalty. The non-compete clause is a 6 month financial penalty any way you look at it! Why can they compete with IBOs and we cannot compete with them? Isn’t that a double standard? My final word is that anyone with common sense can see through this cloud of smoke that Quixtar aka AMWAY is stirring up at the expense of ALL IBOs. If their plan is to get rid of ALL IBOs and distribute through retail stores like they do in China, Japan, Malasia, and other countries outside the US, they are well on their way to succeeding. I didn’t know half of what I know now, before their mudslinging blog, so for that I will have to thank them for opening my eyes! Their mudslinging comments and unprofessional PR has turned away many non-TEAM IBOs already(read the blogs}. I did not sign up for AMWAY. Been there, done that, and left AMWAY years ago because of the high prices and lack of leadership from my non-TEAM upline.
  6. Canadian IBO Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 12:17 am

    My wife and I had an AMWAY BUSINESS back in the 70’s & 80’s and we loved the products then and the business, and yes it was hard to build even then when the name was mentioned. It was usually done at the end of the plan. Our upline personal sponsor went 7500 PV in 90 days without any system. There was TOOL problems back then and when his upline PEARL (now Saffire I believe) and EMERALDS wanted him to acknowledge in recognition that he utilized the SYSTEM he refused and basically was black-balled. Eventually we all dropped out of the business.
    We got into QUIXTAR last year and still love the products and QUIXTAR - YES the product prices are high on a lot but the core exclusives are not. Product Education folks!!Become a good salesman. All this stuff about the Termination is very disheartening. Our organization has been using some of the TEAM CD’S ETC. but now I don’t think it will be any more. (not my call)I do know that Orrin deeply hurt our leader with your stand ( right or wrong I don’t know). It was hard to hear and see our leader break down emotionally at our Ticket Holder’s Meeting this week when in his quote ” a dear friend and student of mine has made a decision I disagree with”.

    Where this all goes who knows. I agree and hope QUIXTAR makes some early decisions on all of this mess, even with the name change as well. It will be harder than ever to build our business but we will prevail. If the TEAM was in violation on other things then they should be held accountable. I do know I have seen Chris Brady’s whiteboard plan and no time does he ever mention the name QUIXTAR. Only refers to TEAM even writes it in the center of the three Trends and when starting the first leg never shows a second or third leg at all on the board, but does verbally say as he has drawn one down 10-20 deep( you can do another). I guess we will have to wait and see when the dust settles where we all stand but I for one will be following our leader with his committment to QUIXTAR/AMWAY!!
  7. djz Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 12:19 am

    It’s all about the tool money. If you take the time and do some math, you will discover that 90% to 96% of Orrin’s money came from the IBOs pockets when buying the CDs, books, and attending the seminars.

    Sure, the relationship between the ’sales force’ and the manufacturer is mutually beneficial, but when the ’sales force leadership’ earns 10X more from his own system verses the actual product moving, you have a serious threat to reputation and credibility.

    Look at the official link to 2006 statistics from Quixtar. Do the math. Orrin & company were/are literally selling the dream, and they are good at it.

    Assumptions for calculations:

    1. 50% of TEAM are on system
    2. $12/week for CDs ($0.56 cost to make)
    3. 50,000 people on the TEAM

    Do similar for books, and seminars, although margins aren’t nearly as exciting, but the numbers are far more rewarding then the Quixtar bonuses.
  8. Valley of Dry Bones Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 12:23 am

    I am against stacking to ….. Quixtar stacking up cash on the backs of their IBO’s forced to use overpriced products.
  9. Canadian IBO Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 12:24 am

    I am not much of a blogger-too old I guess. What does awaiting moderation mean. Am I supposed to shorten it up or what. Thanks
  10. Jim Feist Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 12:26 am

    What do you stand for?

    For what is at stake; my integrity, my character, my loalty to my TEAM and the TEAM Leadership, my honor as a husband and father, and my word to God as his servant, I choose to do what I believe is right; I will come back with my shield, or on it. You see, loyalty can not be priced or for that matter, bought; it can only be earnd as is trust. For that my loyalty is with TEAM. My intent is not to demean Quixtar/Amway/Alticore in any way. As our business is one of great morals and values, I have been asked to refrain from any malicious comments, the production of false statements, or de-edification in any sort against the Quixtar/Amway/Alticore businesses. I see no reason for this because my own beliefs stand with a quote from Joe Fraiser, “If you cheat in the dark, you will be found out under the lights.” We all stand to be judged for our actions. The truth will bare itself and the truth alone will surely serve its purpose. When I had first seen this business, the one thing I wanted was material and could only provide a selfish motive, my entertainment. Don’t get me wrong, material things are not bad, but what was is that I chose my own gratification over that of my wife and children and service to others. What I have gained is priceless. A sense of Purpose. Through a SYSTEM that promotes a learning organization, in which each individual has the right to do what they wish with their new found information or interpretation there of, I discovered through my own personal quest for self mastery that the influence of others only comes through caring for them - serving them, wanting their victories more than yours, and the willingness to sacrafice everything for the cause you belive in. For this reason, as a man of my word, when I registered my first IBO; I vowed to help another human being succeed. If my business must also be disolved to stand for what I believe in, then so be it. The circles may be broken, but the bonds will live forever, as one TEAM, one FAMILY. Nothing can stop an idea whos time has come. Think about what I heard a great leader once say, “The COMMUNITY moves the market, the market does not move the COMMUNITY.” The Consumer Rebellion is surely in action. I once heard Orrin say, “Show me where the front line is. That’s where I’ll be.” It is evident that he, with Chris Brady and the TEAM Leadership, are of their word and only now intend to make better what has been broken. They stand to lose more than anyone while taking a stand for cost, retailing of product and name change, and I believe in what they are doing. As for… well, you know, they can keep the money, I’ll keep my DREAM and my TEAM.

    DEFEND THE SHIELD!!!
  11. Matt Tranel Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 12:38 am

    IBO since 2005, all i can say is the Team is the best biz opportunity on the planet.

    The Team is going to 1 Million and beyond.
  12. Dad Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 12:46 am

    Hey, does anyone know…

    Is Moses taking “Judas” Victor with him to the desert?

    Ya’ll have a nice trip!

    The rest of you better figure out what you’re going to do while they are wandering around counting THEIR money.

    I know, maybe you could dig out some old cassette tapes of Orrin & Jody edifying the corporation (Amway) and the originator of the finest training system in the world (Dexter Yager) and then instead of waiting for Moses or Judas to get their heads out of their butts… you can just do what they did!

    GO BUILD YOUR OWN EMPIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    {{STOP WAITING AND FOLLOWING, GO LEAD}}
  13. Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 1:01 am

    rpr7768: Nice try. More than one comment above links to Mr. Simmons’ commentary. I do appreciate your effort to at least break it into palatable chunks. If only that would catch on.

    Dixie: We noticed you submitted the same exact comment to more than one blog post here. You can find your original submission above.

    Canadian IBO: It merely means we are reviewing it. Unless there is a glaring red flag or the comment resembles a novella, it gets posted, typically within minutes but sometimes within hours.

    Suzie: See above. Also, we’ve asked that comments stay at or around 2-3 paragraphs, give or take.

    Folks: This moderator is off to bed. Play nice.
  14. rpr7768 Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 1:06 am

    In response to post 717.

    “Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 1:01 am
    rpr7768: Nice try. More than one comment above links to Mr. Simmons’ commentary. I do appreciate your effort to at least break it into palatable chunks. If only that would catch on.”

    So the links are ok but the article isnt? Are you attempting to censor what people read?
  15. natalier Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 1:14 am

    Drew #679, in total agreement. In addition, if Independant Business Owners do not have a say in the pricing structure of the Quixtar program including the new shipping increases coming out, and their representative upline on the IBOAI Board is not getting the results the IBO’s are looking for out of Quixtar, shouldn’t they be allowed the freedom to compete if they think they can?
  16. Steve Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 1:37 am

    For those that think prices are good as they are I’ll give you just one example (of many) to prove otherwise…

    We were buying diapers from Q (Kozy Kids) for 1.5 - 2 years without even blinking an eye at the price. We didn’t think about price because I grew up in this business (2nd generation) and I believe in being loyal to my own business. One day we ran out of diapers and ran to our local grocery store (Giant Eagle - in PA) and bought the store brand diapers to last us until our Ditto order showed up. To my shock, I opened the Giant Eagle bag to find Kozy Kid diapers! EXACTLY the same diapers EXCEPT for price. Turns out that the Kozy Kid diapers from Q where 3-4 times more than Giant Eagle brand. Even at the Platinum level (which we are not yet at) I couldn’t see how it made sense to buy diapers from my own business. Taking into account, gas, time, rebate back from Q…I still would lose money versus buying it from the grocery store. We still are buying the grocery store brand of diapers.

    This revelation of prices woke me up to the fact that our products are so overpriced. I talked to my father (very large business w/friends on the board) about the diapers and he told me NOT TO BUY THEM and to NEVER recommend them to anyone else. He also had me write a letter to certain members of the board because he informed me they (the board) were arguing with Corp. about prices and Corp. needed to read actual situations.

    All of this happened over a year ago….pricing has been an issue for a long time and Q needs to do a major price change. I think Q should drop the J-factor down from 3 to 1. Q still makes a profit AND all IBOs benefit with an across-the-board price reduction on ALL core line products.
  17. HSW Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 2:02 am

    #705
    Please read #429 & #442 and you will realize that the tool money is distributed equaly within the TEAM system to those that build.
    Not those that are sittig on an old PIN.
  18. JUSTWATCH Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 2:24 am

    JUST WATCH…. RESIGNATIONS WILL BEGIN THIS NEXT WEEK AT AMWAY…

    FTC IS GOING TO COME AND INVESTIGATE…

    THE NASTY LETTERS,FROM AMWAY, SENT TO THE DIAMONDS DEMANDING THEIR RESIGNATION OR WRITTEN WORD THAT THEY ARE NOT LEAVING IS GOING TO BACK FIRE…

    JUST WATCH AND SEE… THE 27TH IS APPROACHING FAST…(THE HEARING ON THE CLASS ACTION…)
  19. mex Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 3:15 am

    wow now in the spanish org.the are making i lot of changes an there not people to trust…..they try to make money of the tool’s togheter whit amway or quixtar now everything is good,,,,,lies an more lies….TEAM IS NOT A BUSINESS IT’S ABOUT LIFE
  20. Valley of Dry Bones Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 3:30 am

    Comic relief to this whole thing….

    http://theiborebellion.blogspot.com/
  21. Freedom Fighter Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 4:33 am

    702
    It’s the concept of the punishment that should frighten any IBO in any Platinum group. It’s not the rule that’s the problem.
    I received an email saying the rule goes into effect Sept 1, 2007. Guess if the rule is not new, it’s just the punishment that’s new. The fact that they can punish all IBO’s under a Platinum for the offense of 1 IBO is ludicrous! That they can terminate a Platinum for infractions of 3 IBO’s in their group is criminal. Unbelievable, to destroy someones’ future based on someone elses behaviour. It is no longer secure, and who knows if you’ll have anything left to will to the next genertion. What other rules/punishments do they have planned to spring on us? No security with Quixtar, sad to say after 17 yrs loyalty.
  22. Jim Feist Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 4:48 am

    To djz705:
    August 17th, 2007 at 12:19 am

    “It’s all about the tool money. If you take the time and do some math, you will discover that 90% to 96% of Orrin’s money came from the IBOs pockets when buying the CDs, books, and attending the seminars.”
    -PV pays, Tools educate, and knowledge apllied breeds success while a learning organization compounds upon its ability to learn and the rate at which that learning happens.
    -More education, more $. More $, more motivation. More motivation, more action. More action, more DREAMS.

    “Sure, the relationship between the ’sales force’ and the manufacturer is mutually beneficial, but when the ’sales force leadership’ earns 10X more from his own system verses the actual product moving, you have a serious threat to reputation and credibility.”
    -Isnt it amazing when the money gets redistributed back to the students based upon their performance? Can you believe I had to pay to attend college? Another scam. Paid to educate and be educated. What a great concept. And rather than threat, more like promotion of reputation and crebibility, of a paid-per- performance learning organization don’t you think? Are you Looking?

    “Look at the official link to 2006 statistics from Quixtar. Do the math.”
    -Please post it. What do Quixtars statistics have to do with the math of TEAM tools? Were you there to see the figures in Atalanta?

    “Orrin & company were/are literally selling the dream, and they are good at it.”
    -Thank you for the compliment. I’d pay $50/week if thats what it took to get my dreams.

    “Assumptions for calculations:”
    -Come on, you know the rule… Never assume…
    And we both know why.

    “1. 50% of TEAM are on system”
    -Youre right. 1 system for my wife AND I(2 people, 1 system = 50%). You’re full of compliments today, please keep them coming. I’m going to have to wake someone up at 3:20am and Show them the Plan! :)

    “2. $12/week for CDs ($0.56 cost to make)”
    -How much did your shirt made in China cost? Now what did you pay for it? What a scam.

    “3. 50,000 people on the TEAM”
    -Just in case you have not heard, on the way to a Million. Thanks to the way things work around here it looks like we might be there sooner than we think.

    “Do similar for books, and seminars, although margins aren’t nearly as exciting, but the numbers are far more rewarding then the Quixtar bonuses.”
    -Again, Are you looking?
  23. Betrayed Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 4:53 am

    It’s happening…..new prospects internet search Quixtar and don’t understand Quixtars immature letters to the Team….come to think of it I don’t understand Quixtar’s immature letters!! Could someone at the corporation fire the hot headed 18 year old writing these letters. My business is going to sink because you are in a childish ego filled school yard fight…..let them go! I want to succeed!
  24. mike Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 4:54 am

    Crista #427. Again your numbers don’t add up. Tide Powder. average family 10 loads per week. If you disagree, your not married/w kids. That’s 480 loads per year. Crista’s powder is 6.89, which does 40 loads. 1 box of sa8 18.85/(22.75 retail), which does 125 loads. Keep in mind that in wisconsin with hard water, both are directed to use 2 scoops without a water softner,in the directions(check it out). You buy tide 12 times, SA8 4 Times. Tide is 82.68, SA8 75.40 (91 at Retail). Two Scoops Tide is double that. Now tide is not environmentally safe, fillers (1/3-1/3-1/3), smell goods in it, and they don’t pay you to use it.

    Now the number one sold detergent in US is Tide liquid 100 oz (bought bye the gals:)) Tide liquid 100 oz, 32 loads. SA8 does 6.6 1bs, 125 loads (100 % dissolve). Tide liquid must be bought 15 times/year, at a cost of 101.85. SA8 is 75.40 (retail $91). If you live in Wisconsin, you double those numbers. SA8 is cheaper. Liquid is not as strong, cost more, and 100 of SA8 cleans. Safe for environment (packaging too), safe of machine, less time at store, less gas, save money, & now Free shipping if order’s over $75 dolars (for everybody’s client-effective 1 sep 07).

    Also, if your single. Those numbers work the same. Your cost drops the same based on usage. Oh, I did check P&G on line. 100oz liquid $15.56/bottle (plus shipping). EBAY, you could get a case of 4 and the price would drop to $9.79 or 12 bucks/bottle (I think they still charge shipping). Ussually you had to buy a case. check it out. You have to go to the store to get the prices I listed above in my example. I didn’t use the one’s on P&G or ebay. Couldn’t even get the product on line at target(france) or walmart (china).

    Let alone all the other 60+ products a mom has to get at the store. Ditto! I think alot of people are not trained properly. They hear something long enough, with out thinking about it; and take it as gospel. The prices are great and when you look at the basket of goods over the year, families save big time. I am not going into the quality of the product, but products too expensive. You don’t know what your talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  25. mike Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 5:17 am

    #704 is right about the product. I do think a system is important. Half of you buy books from Barnes & Noble, but its okay to spend money for tools there; even though its more expensive. Go to college and never use a degree you paid tens of thousands of dollars for. It never gave you a job, but to buy a CD for $2.50 or a book like “how to win friends and Influince people 6/7 bucks is bad. I have got it good in WWDBs, we have incentives and rewards paid by our diamonds & the system other organizations don’t get. They should make money off our system. But they also use some of that money to benefit others. Not just pay the bills of having a system Worldwide. I am sure your org’s platinums, emeralds, diamonds, and training org share those profits. Not just Orrin & Woodward receiving the profits from the buying of tools, maybe they are the only ones; I don’t know. WWDB use extra money to fund training sites that lose money (or don’t make any money), so people can get training were there is no system. Use the extra money to buy tools and technologys to better the ibos in the system. Sounds like a dream, but its not. They have a checks and balences system in place, so if a upline leader goes wacky; you can still build and have a way to get resolution on issues. It wasn’t always that way, now it does. Not only through WWDB, but Quixtar.
  26. Freedom Fighter Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 6:42 am

    Quixtar, it’s amazing How rapidly you lost my respect in 3 weeks.

    July 27- opened email-IBO must show brochure about Amway business when STP-slither in the back door and drop a bomb like that-total lack of respect to all IBO’s, lack of business & leadership skills. Big Mistake! Big, Huge

    Same day - email telling how you can terminate our business due to the mistakes of 3 IBO’s. A far cry from the days of a handshake between 2 men. Bully tactics-but only the start

    Aug. 8- Town Hall Mtg-backwards leadership. A little to late to sell your us on your Amway destruction-oops-transormation.

    see part 2
  27. Freedom Fighter Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 6:52 am

    lost my respect part 2
    Then the lies in your press releases, the inflammatory blogs, the meanspirited emails full of lies sent to all of our IBO’s

    The bully tactics giving 24 hr ultimatums to Diamonds not involved in lawsuit, and threats of suspension for team attendance or Team tools

    Then your fluffy piece on email about how well your town Hall mtgs went and all the progress made- ridiculous lies- I was there, what I witnessed didn’t resemble the positive spin you put on it

    All the injunctions and legal stuff- makes me think you’ve got alot to hide-more bully tactics

    I’m so sad at what you’ve become.
  28. Matt Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 8:48 am

    #698 Gerald
    Thanks for the additional information from Japan.

    To let EVERYONE know, the TEAM system distributes the tool bonus money based on level in the business; and there are NO SPECIAL DEALS of profit. ie. Woodward and Brady get paid EXACTLY like everyone else. So anyone could profit more then them. THAT is free enterprise and standing behind your system.

    If an organization is going to buy cds/books and associate at meetings, it seems to make sense to KEEP that money in their organization instead of giving to outside companies; and then share andy profit based on performance. Sounds like network marketing to me.

    I would like to see Devoss and VanAndel families get paid on the network they PERSONALY go build. I bet the rules would be changing real fast.
  29. George's Girl Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 9:04 am

    All you loyal Quixtar/Amway people, please re-read Post #703 from Dixie. She says it straight. Q/A will keep changing the rules until even YOU quit!

    BTW, I’ve heard that Quixtar is officially UN-INVITING any Team Platinums scheduled for the New Platinum seminar. Unless of course they sign in blood agreeing to never, ever have a negative thought about Amway or Quixtar as long as they live.
  30. Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 10:08 am

    rpr7768: I’ve explained our stance against censoring comments several times. Linking to other blogs is perfectly fine; we do it with the Opportunity Zone blogs as well as other sites. It’s preferred over cutting and pasting, and keeps with the nature of the web.

    Even then, the minute we see clusters of comments all linking to the same blog post over and over, it becomes classic linkbaiting and all bets are off.

    Regardless, you are merely trying to get your point across. We get it. Did you have some original analysis of Mr. Simmons’ commentary that would be better served on this blog versus posting it to the forum in question?

    Team Tactics: Too long, sorry. Possible to condense? We’d like to post this.

    Jefe: We appreciate the parody, but in doing so it made your post extra lengthy. Try resubmitting as two comments: one as your original thought, the other as your take on our post. Thank you.
  31. Brian L Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 10:17 am

    Administrators/moderators, you’re doing a great job! Not an easy one, but you’re doing great. Grab an XS and enjoy the show ;)
    Here’s something new I found.. the Boston TeaBerry Party! I love it!
    FREEEEEEEEEDOMMMMMMM!!!
    http://www.drinkxs.biz/
  32. Todd Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 10:58 am

    Is’nt this blog breaking the rules and conduct? It’s called crosslining and the corp. is allowing this. I may be wrong but I’m not even sure who my upline is anymore. I guess it’s my own fault.Don’t know what to think anymore!
  33. Ohio IBO Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 11:16 am

    #724 - Good information, but nothing I didn’t already know, and irrelevant when you’re in the living rooms to STP and their objection is pricing. It isn’t necessarily a question of factual details you have presented, but public perception, which is sometimes hard to get past. Having a product line competitively priced would enable us to move beyond that initial objection, and in time prove the quality vs price comparison of the core products.
  34. PE Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 11:23 am

    Drew,

    (#679)

    You are right on! If we signed up in Quixtar, how can they make us stay in Amway?

    We were in Amway since 1991. When Quixtar started it was another company. We paid membership fees in both Amway and Quixtar for several years. Then they dropped the option of Amway and made it only Quixtar.

    Now they made it Amway with no notice. They announced it in June to the public, but not to the IBO’s. I only found out this week.

    We will back Orrin and Chris and resign if we have to just to keep from being called liars from the friends, families and IBO’s we have been telling for the past 8 years that this is not Amway.
  35. Mark Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 11:51 am

    You go QUIXTAR. over priced product’s you people don’t understand this business, do you want to save money or do you want make money, your the one that registered and your the one who bought the product’s so why is everyone upset with QUIXTAR it’s a buying site you saw the price before you purchased it. PROUD OF EVERYTHING THAT QUIXTAR STANDS FOR AND BETTER YET WHAT RICH AND JAY STAND FOR.
  36. sak Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 11:55 am

    I just don’t know why Amway does not step up and realize that there are many (even not a part of Team) that will not want to stay with the “New” Amway. I think they could save face in a big way if they just let US go that don’t want to be a part of the new business model. That would be a great way for the public and media to regain some respect for the Amway Corp. And that is what Amway needs right now, please do the right thing for all involved for those that want to go and those who want to stay.
  37. SK Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 12:01 pm

    I am very sadened by the Company taking a step back to the middle ages. I was in Amway in the 90’s and it was very discouraging and hard to build because of the name. I was thrilled with the New Quixtar business and I actually had success with building that, now, without any input by IBO’s you are forcing me to make a choice, well my choice is to not be involved with a company that does not care about it’s “distributors” I LOVE the products (over priced) but I bought them cause I was a loyal business owner, but I don’t want to go back to trying to convince people that Amway is a good and option for making money. I’m glad there are men out there who will stand up for what they feel is right and for the rights of others. I say farewell to Amway!
  38. Just an IBO Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 12:05 pm

    A quote from quixtar Ada-tudes blog:
    http://adatudes.opportunityzone.com/2007/08/14/Stacking-vs-DepthBuilding.aspx

    “Editor’s Note: My apologies if I misunderstood. The approach that has been taught by Team includes referring to Quixtar as one of many vendors. The reasons for doing so are those you expressed in your comments. RL”

    I have NEVER heard Quixtar referred to as a “vendor”.
    They are the portion of the business that provides the Content and Commerce, but they do not build the Community!

    You could have the best widgets in the world, but unless you have people to sell them to, you’re not going to make any money.

    This is quoted from TEAM’s SA-4400 that was content reviewed by Quixtar (CR #17851):

    “Team’s Approach: Participation in Team’s approach to building a business powered by Quixtar is strictly voluntary. Team utilizes long-term vision, delayed gratification (short-term income is smaller when focusing on depth more than width), and utilize the power of compounding (depth is intended to create, but is not guaranteed to produce, duplication and longterm results). Team focuses in part on building depth in the sponsoring process. The use of this methodology, while somewhat different from how other IBOs may promote building a business, does not alter how PV/BV are calculated or how bonuses are paid by Quixtar through the IBO Plan.”

    Sounds like a bunch of criminals to me…..starting with the parent organization that approved this method to begin with, and now wants to disembowel the TEAM for using it so well. Or is it just that the TEAM has built on the Loyalty factor and A/Q/A is worried that the TEAM will take all of it’s members a ‘plug them into’ a new provider of content and commerce??
  39. Scott Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 12:13 pm

    I can see why people from organizations outside of TEAM have some derogatory remarks and side with Alticor. Their information is limited and they have no comprehension of the integrity and vision of the TEAM leadership. In the pursuit of truth…one must ask themselves…Why would long time leaders in the business (from other organizations)like Don Wilson, Randy Haugan, Billy Florence, etc. align themselves with TEAM just prior to calling Alticors bluff. I gaurantee you that these men are intellegent and they have more than just a plan. They have a vision!! Time will hush the critics. People of integrity expect to be believed, and when not, they let time prove them right.
  40. Ron Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 12:56 pm

    Some of these comments are interesting reading. I know people are passionate concerning their views but it is important to try to discern what the real problems are. This is a complicated issue and can’t simply state he/she/ or they are wrong. Stacking is not condemend by the FTC but is a rule established by the corporation as stated in their memo and referenced to rule *4.25. IBO Plan Manipulation: No IBO shall manipulate the IBO Plan or sales volume, in any way which results in the payment of bonuses or other awards and recognition that have not been earned in accordance with the terms of the IBO Plan and/or the Business Reference Guide.

    IBOs do not receive monies not earned. That is the reason IBOs do not receive funds from income of downline unless they retail products. You have a choice of building width and let depth happen or build depth and let width happen. If building depth (regardless of what you call it) help IBOs remain in the business and create more volume for the corporation, why not embrase it? The reason is outlined in comment “572.”

    A coming problem for a lot of IBOs is the name change back to Amway. I respect what the company has built over the years but the general public does not. I have tried to figure out the reasoning and wonder if someone can help? Is it because the name change will coordinate with the 50th anniversary of the business. Is it because it is more well known in Michigan and can attract more voters to the next Governor’s election.

    Although I don’t feel the corporation is right in their decision, I have to admit they have the right. Why not rebrand to Alticor. Then they won’t have to change anything ever again.
  41. Matt Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 1:05 pm

    #731 THANKS that is too cool.
  42. Valley of Dry Bones Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    A lot of talk about shipping increases well how about this. SOME QUIXTAR GROUPS DON’T PAY FOR ANY SHIPPING. Yes it is true. How is that for fairness?
  43. Gary Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    #611 and 624.
    It is true. I have been brainwashed by the organization under Don Wilson and Randy Haugan, and now TEAM for 8 years now. Before that, I recieved my brain washing from the television. Now I’m not, I admit, a professional on brainwashing at all, but I did get a four year degree in college, (a handicap I am still trying to overcome today)and found that there was a considerable amount of brainwashing there as well. At least I believe it was brainwashing, considering the ideas they were conveying was contrary to my upbringing. However my resistance to the secular brainwashing was in part successful as I played games with the professors by turning in homework that mimmicked compliance with their indoctrination, securing another “A” toward “Suma Cum Lauda”. It appeared that I at least had the ability to THINK for myself and maintain my own beliefs. When I was first introduced to a tape, book and seminar system, I immediately grabbed hold, listening, reading and attending every meeting I could(voluntarily of course). I was looking to fix many problems I had in my life which had nothing to do with money. And yes, my marriage was one of them. But without going into great detail, I have to admit that my current life, as opposed to the former, has greatly benefited as well as my now “well adjusted, independent thinking high self esteem children”. None of my boys wear girl pants, have pearcings, or cave to peer pressure. My daughter is still daddy’s little girl at 17. You can’t even imagine how grateful I am to the TEAM for providing their brainwashing to me and to my now brainwashed family. As far as Quixtar goes, I have really enjoyed the products you have provided my family. They are absolutely wonderful. I have never been able to retail any, but I was one of the lucky ones that could afford them. Well, on to a new chapter. I am eager to see the new direction my life will take as I am brainwashed yet again into a bright new future.
  44. Marcus Robinson Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 1:40 pm

    THE BEST INVESTMENT YOU CAN MAKE IS IN YOUR BRAIN……………… NOT QUIXTAR! (OH, SORRY, I MEANT AMWAY)
  45. MGA Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 1:41 pm

    Well, I had to go look up dictionary.com.
    pu·er·ile adjective 1. of or pertaining to a child or to childhood.
    2. childishly foolish; immature or trivial: a puerile piece of writing.

    I think the originating post qualifies.

    Don Wilson and Billy Florence had been Amway distributors since the 70’s. Billy was on the governance and oversight committee on the IBOAI. Don was on the legal and ethics committee. I find it inconceivable that these two men with their character, background and longevity could be so dismissed in such a preemptory manner. And for the corporation to positively crow about “terminating” them is beyond belief. Whatever allegiance I may have had with the corporation is certainly lost now. I have deleted my ditto. I have had my membership auto renew stopped (BTW, even though there was a check box on the bottom of the page to discontinue my auto-renew, it did not work. I had to call customer service, spoke to Judy who told me the only way I could discontinue was to speak to a customer service rep such as her. Talk about deceptive business practices…)
    I will stand by in the corner and watch this train wreck but I can’t help for feeling sorry for all the damage this has done. The action’s taken by Alticor are seriously suspect and everybody’s business will be affected by this. Frankly, the tone of this post will be a major factor in the decision of many IBO’s and non-IBO’s alike.
  46. sak Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 1:44 pm

    I just don’t know why Amway does not step up and realize that there are many (even not a part of Team) that will not want to stay with the “New” Amway. I think they could save face in a big way if they just let US go that don’t want to be a part of the new business model. That would be a great way for the public and media to regain some respect for the Amway Corp. And that is what Amway needs right now, please do the right thing for all involved for those that want to go and those who want to stay.
  47. Jefe Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 1:54 pm

    Have you ever had one of those days, when all the books you have read and CD’s you have listen to, just went right out the window?

    Well, today I had one of those days.

    After countless slandering e-mails from Q, and several personal phone calls, I had enough.

    I stomped around a few minutes then mummbled a little under my breath.

    How could they….? Why would they….?

    Once I calmed down a little I spent some time thinking about the future.

    A good friend of mine once spoke about ” the desert place” we must go through and what is on the other side.

    So I visualized the “other side”. A side with character and integrity, a passion for life, and cause worth fighting for.

    I imagined the day when the IBO’s were free and could at last, go in a different direction.

    In this state, I imagined this headline on the Team website in the near future:
  48. Jefe Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 1:54 pm

    Just Go, Quixtar!

    We terminated Quixtar yesterday, along with several other leaders of their corporate organization named Amway. we’ll post our formal statement when it’s ready. Informally, here’s the story:

    We terminated Quixtar for philosophical reasons. We did it for legal reasons.

    But the main reason we did it is because the way Quixtar ran it’s corporation was a disgrace to every person who’s ever been part of Team.

    We have fought to to have Quixtar clean up it’s reputation for years. We know that one of the biggest challenges the Team faces is the Quixtar and Amway businesses.

    And over the last several months, it became clear to us that Quixtar was a poster child for a long list of bad business practices that our critics hate about those of us on Team. The other Owners / Employees were terminated as well – including Doug DeVos, Steve VanAndel, Jim Payne, – they all showed they were unwilling to reform.

    Not telling people they were signing up with Amway? Quixtar would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as they could.

    Making people think they share the money? Same deal.

    Telling people that Team was merely “Two Men,” and not an organization of thousands of IBO’s? Yup.

    we’d told Quixtar we had problems with the way they ran their business for years, and we worked methodically to bring those problems to resolution. We got ignored, we got lied to, and, boy, we got the runaround.

    So in the end, yesterday, we tried to give them one last chance to reform.

    They didn’t even want to hear our options. So we terminated them. And in return, they started up, a trash-talking web blog on their way out the door. In response, we have a temporary restraining order issued by a court that prevents them from looting the business we all have built, as they seek to take their act to an old company, Amway.

    So they are gone, and so are others. We are doing our best to repair the relationships Quixtar damaged and protect the businesses of the people in Team that Quixtar betrayed. And we will continue building our business with thousands of people who know how to build it the right way. To one million!

    We would say we were sorry to see Quixtar go. But only if that were true.

    Filed by: Corporate Communications

    No one from Team would ever post such an announcement and I am sorry, as a mere IBO, I digress.

    I promise Orrin, I will get back to reading and listening in the morning! :)
  49. HSW Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 2:15 pm

    #734
    Great comment PE!!!! Isn’t that the truth?
    If somebody asked you in two years is this QUIXTAR you can say no, it is AMWAY. Ever heard about it?
  50. christa Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 2:25 pm

    Okay, I seem to think there is a little confusion regarding our complaint about pricing. Let me just give a few definitions to clear things up.

    RETAIL: n 1) the sale of goods to ultimate consumers, usu. in small quantities, adj-2) connected with or engaged in sale at retail,adv-3) at a retail price, v-4) to sell or be sold at retail

    WHOLESALE: n 1) the sale of goods in quantity, as to retailers, adj-2) of or engaged in sale by wholesale, 3) extensive; broadly indiscriminate: wholesale firing, Adv.-4) in a wholesale way, v-5) to sell by wholesale.

    To all those who say they “retail” products, if you are not selling the product at the Quixtar/Amway retail price plus shipping, handling, and tax….you are NOT RETAILING!!!! You are WHOLESALING!!!!! If ANY DISCOUNT is given, it is no longer RETAIL.

    To comment #724…..Who are you kidding??? While your numbers do add up as you have them listed….you forgot a few things.
    1) Tide RETAILS at $82.68 (12 boxes per year), SA8 RETAILS at $91.00 (4 boxes per year.)That does not include the shipping and the tax on the shipping. Where is the “{savings” to our retail customers????
    2) Tide- $6.89 for 40 loads (according to box) SA8- $22.75 for 100 loads (according to box)/ 125 loads if you use a little less. “Keep in mind that in Wisconsin with hard water, both are directed to use 2 scoops without a water softener” “Tide 2 scoop is double that cost ($82.68). HMMMM…. wouldn’t SA8 be DOUBLE the cost as well because you need to use TWO SCOOPS as opposed to the ONE SCOOP they base their quantity of loads on?????
    You can’t double the cost on one example product because you need 2 scoops if you don’t double the cost on the other sample product for the same reason. (Which makes Tide $165.30 per year and SA8 $182.00 per year)
    3) “Free shipping with any order over $75 (for everybodys client) effective SEPT.1, 2007!!!! Last time I checked, it’s only AUGUST!!! Therefore, the free shipping for clients does not play into effect in regards to the prices up to this point. Do you tell your “retail” customers that the “price is high now but someday you will receive free shipping on this….If you spend $75.00!”

    I think you are doing more “WHOLESALING” of products than you are doing “RETAILING”. I have MANY customers who buy products at wholesale. The problem is, I CAN”T KEEP the ones I get at RETAIL!!!

    By, the way, I am married and have kids so I know what an “average” household does in laundry each week.
  51. Ron Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 2:30 pm

    what do you mean “moderation?”
  52. Mike Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 2:55 pm

    Mike,

    It appears your knowledge of retailing products are superior. Let me ask. What is your background. What special techiques do you use? I am sure we all could benefit. I know post#427 personally. Her background is/was retail for 15+ years. Let me see K-mart, Wal-Mart. Hmmm…WOW these are same distribution models that are presented in the plan. I think she has a good grasp on retailing and selling.

    Finally, so if QAMWAY focused is IBOs retailing products and their like product prices including shipping are above Target/Walmart/K-mart prices, what do you think the average consumer will do?
  53. HSW Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 3:28 pm

    #748
    Jefe, great work!
    This type of announcement you will never see from TEAM. Those who listen to the right media will grow because of it. Those who listen to the wrong media will go because if it.
  54. djz Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    Hi Jim Feist (comment #722)

    Statistics from Quixtar can be found here:

    http://www.thisbiznow.com/quixtar/ibo_statistics.html (I did supply this link, but it didn’t show up in the comment - it’s linked to my initials)

    I understand education is an investment for the student. The analogy is fair. A student pays willingly the tuition & books to theorectically become equipped to earn a living in a given field.

    The training that TEAM offers is motivation, edification, business building structure, and the occassional retail selling advice.

    If the money from ‘the business’ is comission based from product moving, I would have NO problem whatsoever. The catch is that the VAST amount of money at stake for leadership of TEAM is money generated from their tools, NOT product comissions.

    The above link to the statistics demonstrate it.

    Here’s an example to make it more clear:

    If only 50 people in an organization like TEAM shared in the tool revenue of say 20 million/year, with the diamonds getting say 80% of that, and the TOP bonuses paid by Q to diamonds last year was 1 million, with an AVERAGE of only 150K, I’d say it’s clear that TEAM isn’t teaching/motivating people to move product. TEAM is about selling CDs, etc,

    Fire up Excel and start doing what ifs with the numbers. If you take an hour or so, you will be AMAZED.

    Good luck!
  55. Concerned_IBO Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 4:11 pm

    I have experienced personally what the corporation is trying to protect all IBOs from by not removing the non-competition clause. My upline diamond, using his credibility because of his pin and the edification of the system, is recruiting the leaders in my organization and preparing them for when they leave. They are told to hold on until September 1 because they can get the incentive bonus money from the corporation and still walk away with all the IBOs they can recruit in that time frame. We showed the plan to all the leaders they are taking and our work of over 10 years will follow unscrupulous people such as these. To say that the whole team leadership is ethical is to desregard the facts and actions of IBOs such as my upline. Since we can’t prove they are doing anything, all we are left with is waiting for September when my upline will walk away with more than 1000 IBOs in our group and our livelihood.
  56. John Jay Franklin Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 5:50 pm

    Just Go, Team? Ummm, what do you think the lawsuit is all about? We want to go and you won’t let us. Now you are telling us to just go? Does this mean you and your company are letting us go or just trying to put on a pretty face for the public? Several blogs on this site consists of people telling us to just go and start our own company or another mlm and make money for our families. That is exactly what we want!!! However, we and our families are locked in a two year non-compete clause that we (most of us at least) did not know about. LET US GO!!! Obviously both the corporation and a good chunck of their IBO’s want us out, so let us out.

    I am new to the team and quixtar, and I have heard next to nothing but nice things said about quixtar from the team, other than they no longer wish to be affiliated. Then the corporation has an immediate mental and emotional meltdown like the cheerleader that I broke up with when she and I were 16 years old!!! Quixtar on the other hand has said next to nothing nice about team. On one side the team leaders quit right after the email about stacking then in the next breath they were terminated!!! Which one happened? Then I read that Orrin was “not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar” and “Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could”, then in the next paragraph Orrin was telling prospects “that Quixtar was merely a “supplier,” and not the company they were signing a contract with”. Ummm, how can you not tell them anything about quixtar and that quixtar is only a suppier? A little logic tells you that both cannot be true. It is either not mentioned or mentioned!!!
  57. Mike Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 6:15 pm

    Retail, 17 years.

    When you double, both are doubled. I never tried to say one doubles and the other one doesn’t.

    shipping versus gas time & impulse. I do not understand how you can’t fiqure that one out either crista. Miss retail.

    10 miles equals $1.25 in gas (at $2.70/gal). families that can auto ship and save in impulse buying (200-300/mos). Time: this subjective because people don’t value time, but if you make $10.00/hour and spend 20 hours a month getting stuff. You can easely spend 4 thousand per year being distrobution for the big box super stores every year and we have not even gotten to the cost comparison’s. Crista, have you (miss retail) ever seen a cost comparison at your local store?

    Mike # 752. Is tide so much equal to our product? I never said that our retail price beat tide one for one. Tide does not compare in quality one for one. You have such a hard time selling SA8 and you’ve been in retail 15+ years. You might want to find a new job:} wow

    The 25 bucks in value based shipping would save a family money versus going to the store and impulse/gas/& time. The free shipping is comming. But based on the TEAM’s comment about haveing this test program 2 years ago. Maybe if your orgination could have made it work, we wouldn’t be having this conversation:} It took ours orgination, who cares about the other orgs in quixtar, to stretch and make it work. Nothing wrong selling retail clients the product at wholesale, especially if you can’t sell them on retail. wow the only sell point Tide has (cost) and it beats you every time. You must be a cashier, you can’t sell; come on!!!!!!!!

    Crista, the sad point is, your so mad at me right now. You won’t even admit I have given you ample info, good info, to sell the products we have. The core line.

    Ohio Boy #733. That is a good point. I do bring a cost compare and generally a few products to plan to show. That has helped, not always. If they were all priced like the daily, wow. But the money in our plan would also go down. I am very comfortable they way it is now. I do see the company changing the prices a little in the future. They already have.
  58. Mike Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 6:16 pm

    Oh crista, Tax is a non issue. both products will be taxed. Leaving it out is mox nix. I did not add tax on either product.
  59. Canadian IBO Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 6:21 pm

    It appears that the members of TEAM are going against their leader Orrin’s own thoughts according to his HEAD,HEART & HUNGER cd. Doesn’t he say - “What about the prices” and replies “Let’s say your monthly costs are $50-$100 more than anywhere else- that’s $600-$1200 more a year. His plan shows you on a two year program making $3000-$4000 a month,following a pattern of showing the plan on a consistent basis.. ( plus tax advantages). Don’t you look at the back end. Money in vs money out. Tim Marks went Diamond in 31 months. How does his income compare to what he pays for his products…Duh!!!!

    Larry & Marcie must be really excited about what is happening with TEAM now.
  60. Wendy D Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 6:39 pm

    What is funny is that all the blindly loyal folks to Quixtar (who whip out definitions and explanations) are probably sitting in their office in Ada, Michigan defending their pricing. Defend away, it may work on paper, but in the homes of Michigan families struggling to make ends meet, it doesn’t.

    What is amazing is that this is so personal. We are in a people business and when you slam people, by name, it hurts all of us. I am shocked that Dick DeVos would let this happen.

    He and his wife are politically savvy- they should know better. I have met both of them and they were kind, humble and well.. just nice. I sure hope they don’t condone this type of slander and tone. We will see.

    Dick and Betsy- Do Something!
  61. Wendy D Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 6:40 pm

    BTW-

    Number 748 Tooooo Funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  62. George's Girl Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 6:46 pm

    #748 Jefe — you rock. That was awesome!!!
  63. NG Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 7:10 pm

    Can anyone tell me why some people got an email saying that Quixtar was changing their name to Amway and some didn’t?? Yes, Quixtar has my email address.

    SOME PEOPLE JUST DON’T KNOW HOW TO RUN A BUSINESS! JUST BECAUSE YOU INHERIT A BUSINESS, DOESN’T MEAN YOU CAN RUN IT LIKE YOUR DADDY DID!!!
  64. rpr7768 Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 7:51 pm

    #730

    Understood. Will remember that for the future
  65. Deann Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 8:28 pm

    I, too, was unable to stop my auto renew…even though I checked the box and saved it numerous times. I emailed corp and asked what was up. They took me off, along with a reponding email asking why I would want to come off auto renew and hoped I would change my mind. FAT CHANCE !
  66. Josh Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 9:21 pm

    Mike 752

    They will probably do nothing if you say, “hey here are my products, you wanna buy em?”

    Now if you take the time to explain the value, benefits and do a proper comparison, you are much more likely to get the customer. Simply on the time factor. And now they offer free shipping (in North America anyway) over 75 bucks. NO BRAINER!!
  67. emerald08 Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 11:18 pm

    This sure sounds like a company in trouble from an Orrin who???? Yeah right

    Alticor posts sales of more than $6.3 billion in 2006
  68. Donovan Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 11:39 pm

    First of all to #683 . . . only the corporate suits can answer why they are sending emails and notices the way they are, but one thing is for sure. It sure appears to be an attempt at dividing the remaining members of the TEAM. Maybe they even see the writing on the wall and want to tarnish TEAM’s good name.

    To #688 . . . If you look closely, you will notice that the “plaintiffs” have had a gag put on them while the “defendants” (Q/A) seem to taking some big swings at them. So when has the main TEAM players slammed Quixtar? They haven’t.

    #735 . . . Yet another misinformed person who has not read the lawsuit.

    #748 . . . That was so true. Amazing how true that was when turned around.
  69. Jeff Says:
    August 17th, 2007 at 11:59 pm

    Just go, Team…hmm…I was going to wait and see how all this played out. But if that’s what you really want then just drop the Non-competition and Anti-Raiding provision and we will. Your the reason we can’t go. So I say to you. Quixtar, Let us Go!
  70. jack lemmons Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 12:22 am

    Has anyone talked about the IBOAI going to a month to month contract? I hear that Amway has had enough of the fields input. That means that the Board has no teeth.
  71. Steve Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 12:42 am

    Everyone that has pulled off of auto-renewal should double check the Quixtar site and your account. I pulled myself from auto-renewal a couple of days ago and decided to make sure it was still off after reading some of these posts. Sure enough, auto-renewal was active again. I canceled auto-renewal again and will verify it up to the last minute of August to make sure it stays off.
  72. Steve Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 12:51 am

    #731…that website is great. Thanks for posting a link to it.
  73. Steve Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 1:08 am

    I just came across Jody Victor’s website markerman.com and got a heck of a laugh. I noticed that people are saying that Jody wrote the Alticor postings so I found it funny that the slogan for his website is “Have fun, make money, help people” which sounds very familiar to Team’s “Have fun, make money and make a difference”
  74. Steve Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 1:19 am

    Ok, I’m really confused by the following statement I found on Quixtar.com under the “What’s New in Business” section > “TEAM Leaders Terminated and Enjoined by State Court”

    The statement is…”Additionally, a state court took the extraordinary step of enjoining Team leaders Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady from using the Quixtar line of sponsorship to sell or promote competing products such as their training system.”

    HOW is Team’s training system a competing product to Quixtar’s products? I have never received in depth training from Quixtar. I have never seen an open meeting in my area being ran by Quixtar.

    Quixtar/Alticor its getting pretty deep around here. I think I’m going to go to Walmart and buy some hip waders.
  75. BC Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 3:29 am

    I admire Orrin a lot and I really do think he’s a great leader but even the best leaders arent right all the time. Orrin says that the products dont change peoples lifes but the system does. Well, in my case Im gonna object to that do to the fact that Nutrilite nutrients have sure changed my life and I’ve seen it change other peoples lifes. The main reason I got into Quixtar was cause of Nutrilite and all other Quixtar products and how they help the enviroment. After I seen the products and the quality, the products didn’t seem expensive to me at all. Im gonna focus on the products and on our system equally. Why would I want to have a good relationship with all kinds of people, and have character, and integrity, etc, if Im not healthy my self and all my other friends arent either? Doesn’t make any sense. I want both. I cant live without our exclusive products. I wish Orrin and his TEAM to have all the luck in the world. I stay with all my leaders and Quixtar.
  76. Steve Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 4:42 am

    You are correct Donovan, they have had a gag placed on them… at least that is what I can glean from scouring the internet, but in so doing, I also found this…

    “…we hereby demand that you publish a retraction, in the manner and within the time specified in the Act, but not later than 5:00 p.m. EST on August 18, 2007…”

    and

    “…We hereby demand that you cease and desist from any communications that include or refer to False and Defamatory Statements and from your campaign of threats, lies and intimidation…”

    While the TEAM leaders have been quiet it does seem that they have been busy…

    Let’s see what happens by the end of the day…
  77. HSW Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 5:09 am

    #754
    Please read #717.
    You don’t know what you don’t know!

    Suggestion: Please get the information from the source and look into the TEAM tool compensation plan. You will be surprised about it’s fair performance structure. It’s soemthing that has never been done before. And that’s what pulled all the leaders togther. Being fair and transparent.
  78. Freedom Fighter Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 6:42 am

    Just started a myspace page(not as Freedom Fighter) I was shocked to CONSTANTLY see a banner for the Laura Mercier cosmetics there. Weird, must cost alot. Weird to know Alticor is paying all that money for a banner to compete with all of the loyal IBO’s. IBO’s that moved Artistry, etc, and raised the money they’re using TO COMPETE against us. That’s confusing…. and irritating

    This is good bye to all you fellow bloggers. I did my first blog ever a few days ago and have been typing and editing blogs in my head ever since. It’s hard to focus on anything else when your head is involved in rewriting it’s blog for the 10th time. I want to move on in life, into the bright new picture I see with TEAM.

    I really think I need to devote as much time to praying as I have been to blogging, It will be more rewarding!

    Well, I think our ultimatuum from Quixtar is sitting unopened in my email. Our Emeralds got theirs today. Think I’ll sleep before I open ours. Sleep & Pray, refreshing
  79. George's Girl Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 9:04 am

    Am I the only one who thinks these people are DELIBERATELY trying to explode their company?

    They change their name to Amway, terminate some of their most successful IBO leaders, threaten and intimidate thousands of loyal IBOs via phone and email, engage in public and contentious litigation, and post, for all the world to see, inflammatory statements.

    It’s clear they plan to eliminate their North American business (loyalists take heed). Their plan may be to either sell only through retail stores (Laura Mercier must be doing well), or perhaps they just want a commission only sales force.

    But in any case, how on earth will the actions of the past week help them? The way I see it, they have effectively created an ARMY of angry people who not only will never purchase anything made by them, but will take any and every opportunity to tell others why they should not do so either. What gives?
  80. rico Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 10:11 am

    Several have lamented the fact that Alticor has not polled them to see if they like the name change. We don’t need a poll to tell them what we think.

    From the Quixtar website we can go to the contact Quixtar link at the bottom and send an email to customer service. Take it directly to customer service rather than hoping they get it through this blog. I sent the following: __________________________________

    I was very disheartened to hear that you are changing the name to Amway. The major objection I deal with is the question “is this Amway?”

    Naming our business Amway is like re-naming a corporation Enron.

    Please reconsider.
  81. Christa Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 10:59 am

    Okay, Mike, I think I’m done with these petty arguments with you. You state that “there is nothing wrong with selling retail clients the products at wholesale, especially if you can’t sell them on retail”. I AGREE with that, except that is NOT RETAILING, that’s WHOLESALING!!!! Quixtar wants you to RETAIL their products (at suggested retail price) they DO NOT want you to wholesale it. With all your knowledge, I would think you would know the difference. TEAM’s complaint was that you COULD NOT RETAIL the products….not that you couldn’t sell them at I.B.O. cost. Try to sell ALL your products at FULL RETAIL COST and see how many of your customers stick around for more than 3 months.
    Also, I have seen cost comparisons in my stores! They have grocery carts full of merchandise that is sold in their store and in 3 other local stores. They use the EXACT SAME items and compare the costs between all of them. They are not always cheaper on every item but they do come out to be cheaper when totaled.
    You mentioned time spent shopping, gas, and impulse buying in your arguement. Unfortunately, none of those things come into play because people STILL NEED to go to their local grocery store. They still need meats, milk, butter, bread, et.al. Do you think they won’t still “impulse buy” when they are there just because they have their non-perishable items delivered through Q/A? I am not talking about making trips to Wal-mart, Kmart, Sam’s, Costco, or BJ’s. My price comparison was based on prices at the grocery store. I still go there 2 times a month and spend an average of $500. a month ON TOP OF the $1,000. I spend through Q. I do it because I get paid by Q/A and the prices equal out for me. My customers who buy RETAIL don’t have those same reasons.
    With that, I am DONE!!! You can make all the sarcastic comments you want to about me and my family. I am more mature than that and have never once, through all our communications resorted to name calling like you have. Seems to me, you are the angry one. Just wondering, are you an ex employee of mine? Is that why you are so hostile? Or maybe you feel the need to fight to convince yourself of the lies? I’m not sure but I am praying for you either way. I am going to go now, attend a team meeting, and build my community of people who care about each other and are committed to making this a better world for us and future generations. Best of luck, Mike!
  82. Bridgett Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 12:52 pm

    This is not the “official” Alticor blog. This is the Alticor MEDIA Blog.

    And whether you agree with it or not, we all know that the media responds to sensational in-you-face attention-grabbing writing.

    And that is the style of this blog writer.

    If you want something “official”, then go to:

    http://www.quixtarnewsroom.com/pr/quixtar/Quixtar%20Team%20News%20Release.aspx

    http://www.quixtarnewsroom.com/pr/quixtar/Quixtar_statement_team.aspx

    :)
  83. ibofightback Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 1:50 pm

    Christa, #750. You are incorrect. Whether something is a retail sale or wholesale sale has nothing at all to do with the price. I recommend you read my article AMWAY/QUIXTAR MYTH: It’s a pyramid if most products are bought by IBOs where I cover the definitions of wholesale and retail sales.
  84. ibofightback Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 2:03 pm

    Donovan #768, you say “So when has the main TEAM players slammed Quixtar? They haven’t.”

    Ummm … not “slammed Quixtar”? I think you might need to read a certain lawsuit … oh, but I see you have. Which part of that lawsuit *wasn’t* slamming Quixtar?
  85. James the Peace Maker Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 4:33 pm

    What is the root of the problem and what is the solution? “Pride comes before destruction and haughty spirit before a fall” This “Pride” has clouded the thinking of both the field and the Corporation and is very close to destroying Rich and Jays Legecy and Our whole industry. This business was at its best when Rich & Jay and the Leaders in the IBO field were friends and had mutual respect for one another. We are all now in the “INFORMATION AGE”. In this age of business environments, the IBO Field cannot make it without Corporation and Visa Versa. This relationship is what has kept us unique and on the cutting edge in the business world. But now we are behind. How far behind? Amway/Alticor/Quixtar/AMWAY AGAIN after 48 years ~ 5 to 6 billion dollars. Larry Page co-founder of Google after about 9 years ~ 16 billion dollars, and that is just his personal net worth. Time to work together you think? HOW CAN WE RECTIFY THE SITUATION? I just said it . WORK TOGETHER, Settle the litigation. Both the IBO Field Leadership and the Corporation should repent of the greed and pride. Work together for the common good of all. We have a lot of catching to do. I do have some specific Ideas, If you are willing to listen and consider them. Please remember “To whom much is given,much is required” All of you have a moral obligation before God Almighty to do the right thing because all of us are going to leave this world one day and will have to give an account to the Lord for everything. As I said, I have some suggestions that can catch us up real fast. But there has to be team work between the IBO Leadership and the Corporation in order for it to work destruction is looming. There is a trillion dollar market out there just waiting to be penetrated. With the combination of the unique skills of IBO Leadership and the Infrastructure in the Corporation, this market multiplies. While you were fighting, you over looked this opportunity. If any one from either side is interested, Blog back and let me know. God Bless you all.
  86. Kit McCoy Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 4:58 pm

    I am a new customer for a Quixtar distributor trying to help him build his business. I happened to see this when I was doing a search so I could place an order.

    I was shocked to see this letter from a major corporation! My first reaction was, WOW! I can’t believe a professional company would put a letter like this on the Internet. If I were looking at Quixtar as a business, I would think twice about signing up. It sounds like there’s real trouble in “Paradise”. Now, I’m even questioning purchasing the products, as the prevailing theme is they are way over priced!

    “Don’t air your dirty laundry in public” would be a good thing to practice. You never know who is paying attention!
  87. Steve trying yet again Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 5:22 pm

    Mods,

    Why was my post at number 769 not posted?

    Most likely because you like to censor what people read here.

    That post contained truth and yet you would not allow it to be posted here? What does that say about this blog?

    Too typical…
  88. Donovan Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 5:43 pm

    ibofightback #781,

    The group of Diamonds took legal action that will be tested by a court of law, a testament to their integrity. Those who filed the lawsuit are putting their money and reputation where their mouth is. Q is fighting in every arena and yes, “slamming,” TEAM members. It’s pure and simple. If they lose the lawsuit, they hope to have as few IBO’s becoming part of a competing MLM as possible.

    Q has pretty much issued a restraining order against these men and have gagged them from saying anything, while the media spin of Q/A runs wild. How can you think to represent that as a fair playing field, but then again, it does reveal a bit of corporate character doesn’t it?

    Don’t forget what Steven Covey says. What a person does to someone . . . you have to consider if you are next.
  89. parnelli Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 5:58 pm

    Hi Friends

    Please read a copy (from buzz) of a letter from Bill Newton who recently resigned from the IBOAI board. It’s enlightening!

    http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=120
  90. Tex Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 6:05 pm

    ibofb #780,

    For the ump-teenth time, there is a unique use of the term “retail sale” when used in the Amway business. It means a sale, at any price, sold to a non-IBO. I recommend you read the rules and call the corp if still confused.
  91. NG Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 6:18 pm

    #778 Good one. OR…. Renaming our business Amway is kinda like naming your kid “Adolph Hitler”… WHO would do that if they really loved their kid?? Or Charles Manson, you get my drift here…

    I will send a message to customer service also, but I kind of think they don’t care much what us ibo’s have to say on this.
  92. JG DAWGS 74 Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 8:09 pm

    We have qualifed at Founders Platinum or above for 33 years consecutively. Each and every month. We have over 40 retail customers (people purchasing products that are not IBO’s)

    I have never missed a single month in 33 years selling to 10 or more customers each month

    The prices of a specific product has never been an issue to me.

    Can anyone generate 100 PV personal with a combination of retail sales and consumption has always been our focus.

    We believe that this has always been possible and continues to be possible.

    Some people pay big bucks for their coffee from a certain coffee boutique, some people pay little bucks from a convienence store, some people take their lunch to work, others eat at restaurants every day.

    The satisfaction guarantee is all we have ever needed to know about the products.

    We have always considered it unrealistic to assume all IBO’s would buy all their personal products from Q.

    The issue is can they generate 100 PV and sell at retail. ( to people not signed up)

    The answer is yes, and will remain yes.

    We are 1000% on board with the new direction the Founding Families are headed in. There is a key phrase to remember: OWNERS..they own the business. The OWNERS are going “ALL IN” to the tune of 100 million each, so we are going “ALL IN” as well.

    We could make a living selling SA8,Artistry and Nutrilite. We have customers that are so brand loyal to SA8 they would buy it at twice the price.

    Start your own if you like. Just follow the rules you so whole heartedly crafted to protect your business.

    We were grateful to the Founding Families in 1974 and coutinue to be today.

    I was thrilled to see “AMWAY ARENA” during the NBA playoff’s on TV.

    If you understand the power of branding in the marketplace today, I think you will agree with the new direction.

    We are ready to Run. I can teach people how to sell and sponsor, and how to teach others how to do it for themselves.

    Stacking is welfare. It gets a lot of votes, but in the end, who says who gets who?

    I will build my business with the people I know and meet, and teach others to do the same.

    As for the “15″ …we have seen bigger business’ terminated, and have watched them pump and dump in numerous multi levels that all tout stacking and binary plans.

    When the Founding Families quit. I will too.

    Until then, if you quit, We will pick up your customers, because you sold them on the truth of quality product..what are you going to say
    that you lied? What if they like the product?

    The “15″ are not worried about the retail sales ability of consumer products.

    Not unless they are all driving the cheapest car, living in the cheapest houses, and staying in the cheapest hotels, and eating in the cheapest restaurants.

    I will decide how I spend my money as an IBO and a consumer.

    In 33 years, we have had 4 ..yes just 4 instances where a retail customer wanted their money back. JUST 4.

    at 4000 PV we were paying 9 bonus checks, and always had money to build our business.

    I dont understand what is so complicated about that.

    All the best to everyone, it is great to see how many people care.

    Dont bet against the house here is my advice.

    I applaud Quixtar for having the strength to make the tough decision to termintate.

    I am astonished that so many people with such large business’ would be so cavalier with them.

    One was supported by the IBOA Board insurance all thru the P&G issues.

    One has been a part of 4 different systems.

    For the newbies out there, we know the history,
    and while dissapointed in the decisons of TEAM, we are not shocked,shaken or suprised.

    We think they have made a mistake, and will look back in regret. The “15′ all have bank rolls or should. Their emerging leaders will be the most affected.
  93. Robert E Lee Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 8:10 pm

    Hi, Just wanted to say Hello, “HELLO!” Not really sure what I am doing here or what is going on here, I have been in and out of AMWAY four times, each time a decade apart. I live in Australia and I am 48 years old. In the past I have been in other MLM businesses. I have now signed on again with IDA and fully understand the concept of the sales and marketing plan. I have collected tapes and listened to the leaders terminated (DREAMCHASERS) – including Chris Brady, Billy Florence, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Tim Marks and Chuck Goetschel, even attended seminars when they were here in Australia. All I can say is a healthy box of apples will last a lot longer than the box with one with a rotten apple in it. It would appear that as this planet gets older and population grows all government bodies will (however hard they try not to.)change the rules. In closing I am about to catch the new wave and lead a group of people to where these players are now. Is this statement below correct?

    A democracy cannot exist as permanent form of government.

    It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves money, from the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by dictatorship.

    The average of the world’s greatest civilisations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through the following sequences:

    From bondage to spiritual faith;
    From spiritual faith to great courage;
    From courage to liberty;
    From liberty to abundance;
    From abundance to selfishness;
    From selfishness to complacency;
    From complacency to apathy;
    From apathy to dependency;
    From dependency back to bondage.

    A.F Tyler (1748-1813)

    All The Best

    Robert E Lee
  94. Tex Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 9:13 pm

    I made some posts on http://forums.freetheibo.info/, a TEAM sponsored site, but they didn’t appreciate being asked how much money is made on tools.

    I asked the CEO of Legacy, one of the tool systems that was absorbed by TEAM, Ron Simmons, how much money is made on tools on the thread “Setting the Record Straight”, and the response was underwhelming, then I found I was “banned”.

    Too bad for them I can post here, where it matters, rather than an obviously one-sided site that only allows those who worship Orrin and Co. to post.

    Go TEAM, Go. As far away as possible.
  95. Just an IBO Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 9:15 pm

    I just checked my auto-renew and it had been mysteriously changed back to auto-renew after I had removed myself from auto-renew a couple of days ago.

    I certainly don’t need A/Q/A’s help in making this decision. I think I was pretty firm in deciding that I don’t want to renew.
  96. mike Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 9:16 pm

    #778. Rico, Enron did something illegal. Amway got a rap due to it taking on the government and then winning. Also, Mike Wallase on 60 minutes, where he always slams the entity he covers. He did not slam amway, he raved about them; they opened the door to 60 minutes and reported good. Since Mike very seldom came back with a good report. People forget. They just assumed the report was bad.
  97. Tex Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 9:16 pm

    Looks like they are about as inflexible as they claim Quixtar to be. So long, suckers. Here’s their rules:

    Forum rules

    We prefer that you be a independent business owner wanting to learn and share facts without fear of corporate reprisal or banishment.

    1) No linking to any site
    2) While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks or purposeless inflammatory posts. Our decision is final in these matters.
    3) Advertising, spamming and trolling is not allowed. This includes using the forum email and Private message system to spam other members.
    4) We reserve the right to remove offensive posts without notice.
    5) Lastly, breaking our rules will result in a ban and deletion of all posts
  98. Just an IBO Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 9:17 pm

    I have spent some time looking for the right thing to say about the original post…..

    “Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret.” - Ambrose Bierce
  99. djz Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 10:33 pm

    Hi HSW (776)

    What part do you think I don’t know? The compensation plan to share in the revenue of the tool system begins when you hit ‘platinum’.

    How many people (on average) acheived that level? According to Q’s own statistics, only 0.1683% hit that number. That zero point 1683 percent. Also stated as 17 per 10,000.

    FWIW, people who achieved emarald were 0.032 percent. Also stated as 3.2 per 10,000.

    People who qualified as diamonds were 0.012 percent ~ 1.2 per 10,000.

    The platinums are the low man in the chain, so their gonna get the table scraps. If you have documents showing how TEAM divides the tool money, I would love to see it.

    Orrin and company are SCRAMBLING because if they can’t legally operate a new training system or MLM for six months, the work will be significantly harder to startup again after six months go by.

    Again - don’t refer me to someone’s statements here, just present some facts or documents if you think I’m misrepresenting something. If I have, I will be happy to acknowledge any and all mistakes.

    See http://www.thisbiznow.com/quixtar/ibo_statistics.html for the statistics. Very very few will EVER make money in Q or from TEAM.

    I’ve read the 47 page lawsuit that Orrin and company have thown at Q. It’s amazing to me that they have the cojones to acuse Q of being an illegal pryamid…sheez give me a break. TEAM has been the biggest cheerleader for the “BEST opportunity on the PLANET” powered by Q for many many years. Now all of a sudden Q is an illegal pryamid?

    Turn off that CD player for a week…clear your head and think about the numbers.
  100. Dad Says:
    August 18th, 2007 at 11:28 pm

    Been an Amway Distributor for many years (never did like Quixtar…)

    You think the name change is bad? A couple of years ago, the corporation cheapened the toilet paper!!!! Now, THAT was bad. I quit buying it (showed them). They came to their senses and reinstated the good stuff.

    Learned from Dexter, along the line, that being an Independent Business Owner was a good thing. Learned things like honesty, integrity and fulfilling commentments pays off in huge, long term rewards. Diversified, built many streams of income… today, I’m not dependent upon NOBODY! Freedom is priceless!!

    Watch out for this Orrin fella. Engineer type, more concerned with the numbers than the people. Sounds like he stole all his teachings from Dexter. Got people believing he is the “chosen one.” Probably better name his new MLM “DBF” for DEPENDENT BUSINESS FOLLOWERS!

    Note to Amway: As long as you don’t mess with the toilet paper anymore, I’m good to go :)

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