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August 10th, 2007 @ 3:59 pm ET…

Just go, Team

You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.

We terminated Orrin Woodward yesterday, along with several other leaders of his field organization, named Team. We’ll post our formal statement when it’s ready. Informally, here’s the story:

We terminated Orrin Woodward for philosophical reasons. We did it for legal reasons.

But the main reason we did it is because the way Orrin Woodward ran his organization was a disgrace to every person who’s ever tried to build a Quixtar or Amway business the right way.

We have fought to clean up the reputation of our company for years. We know that one of the biggest challenges our reputation faces is misrepresentation of the Quixtar and Amway businesses to others.

And over the last several months, it became clear to us that Orrin Woodward was a poster child for a long list of bad business practices that our critics hate about our company. The other leaders we terminated – including Chris Brady, Billy Florence, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Tim Marks and Chuck Goetschel – also showed they were unwilling to reform.

Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could.

Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.

Telling people that Quixtar was merely a “supplier,” and not the company they were signing a contract with? Yup.

We’d told Woodward we had problems with the way he ran his business for years, and we worked methodically to bring those problems to resolution. We got ignored, we got lied to, and, boy, we got the runaround.

So in the end, yesterday, we tried to give him one last chance to reform.

He didn’t even want to hear his options. So we terminated him. And in return, he handed us a trumped-up, trash-talking lawsuit on his way out the door. In response, we have a temporary restraining order issued by a court that prevents him from looting the business as he seeks to take his act to a new company.

So he’s gone, and so are others. We are doing our best to repair the relationships Orrin Woodward damaged and protect the businesses of the people in his organization that Orrin Woodward betrayed. And we will continue building our business with thousands of people who know how to build it the right way.

We would say we were sorry to see Orrin Woodward go. But only if that were true.

Filed by: Corporate Communications

Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation

1087 Responses to “Just go, Team” (401 - 500 shown)

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 » Show All

  1. Chris Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 10:21 am

    Where have all the good leaders gone?

    I have been in this business for a number of years and the leadership that I follow has guided me through some pretty significant life changes. I do not know where I would be had I not joined the team I am on. It was the leadership that I follow that helped me to gain the life I have today and not the products, Quixtar or the compensation plan. This world needs more leaders and the business model and compensation plan give potential leaders a place to grow and effect the lives of others.

    Leadership sometimes means putting your neck on the line for the very thing you beleive in.

    Fear from people that do not understand leadership can cripple even the most successful companies.

    I have worked in a number of companies that I have seen management kill great sales people so that they can exercise their power as they are the managers of those sales people and the sales people worked for them and how dare they tell me how to run my company. The very people that created the high profits the company made were drove out and the company’s profits dive bombed.

    In all this fiascal over the last few days a few questions come to mind that I would like to pose to the Team and to Quixtar:

    1. If all these great business leaders have opposing views as to the necessity for some changes that through all there combined years of experience in the field have been brought to light would that not cause a coporation to then question the current conditions as it is the leadership that builds the business and not the coporation?

    2. Is this more a matter that the Team disturbed the status quo as basically a underling disturbing the OLD ONES than or was there really an issue with their integrity?

    3. If these people that have all these years of experience building this industry challenged the old ways and were cast out of the very thing they built where does that leave the people they led? If Quixtar thinks that all these people are going to just happily switch gears and follow their lead or easily be led down a different path then if I may remind you people follow leaders not companies. Quixtar is not a leadership model they are a supplier of products and services that pays people through a compensation plan based upon the volume they create for the company end of discussion.

    4. If on that day there were some words exhanged by caring people that felt ignored from helping all the people they lead cannot the Team aplogize and look to alternative ways to mediate the issues at hand as opposed to saying in the heat of the moment comments that were more than likley the cause of this whole fiascal than the original issues? When emotions are high sometimes intelligence is low. Egos can build great things over time and they can also destroy those things we hold so dear to our hearts in an instant.

    5. Who really runs this business model? The leaders in the field that see and gain experience every day or beaurocrats that sit behind a desk and couldn’t even begin to comprehend the depth of what it would take to lead hundreds of thousands of people.

    This country needs more leaders and less beaurocrats. I am very concerned about the events that have transpired as there is a lot more at stake than meets the eye.

    It will take years to overcome what has happened if it is allowed to continue so then what, new leaders come on board and rebuild then they challenge the old ways ………….. and its the same old story. Perhaps through all of this we will recognize the need for change as that is the only thing that is constant in this world.

    Chris
  2. Bruce Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 10:37 am

    #387 - John,

    No one ever said that Fred was terminated. Who said that? A legal document filed in a US Federal Court has to be signed by everyone involved. Do you really think anyone could get away with adding his name to a legal document without his permission?

    Are you an active builder in Fred’s group? If you are, you should have already known that he has been working to get on board with TEAM for several months now. The last thing that I heard was that his group was on board in July.

    I don’t think you’re an active builder, if you are with Fred. You would have been well informed like we were in Legacy because it took several months for us to get on board with TEAM.

    As a member of TEAM all I want is for Alticor to stay out of my business and just do what you do best, deliver content and commerce. You need to deliver reasonably price products so that I can comply with the 1989 Federal Trade Commission Order and the 10 “retail” customer rule.

    Alticor, I have no issues with the tool business now that I’m with TEAM, finally it’s fair and equitable; you dropped that ball years ago - TEAM has a real “leadership training system” without the BS (No, I’m not on the profit side yet but I know what it will be when I get there).

    And finally, reinstate our IBOAI board with with all of the leaders reinstated to their positions. Tim gave the full list in his post #375. Reinstate the the board with the same powers that your dads gave the ADA in 1959.
  3. Sergeant Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 10:43 am

    What amazes me here…is look at all these people swearing by Orrins name. As if he is the path to freedom.

    Get real people. Orrin might be a smart guy and businessman. (though I don’t see what is going on right now smart for anyone) But YOU are responsible for yourself, your freedom, your families lives, etc.

    Di you catch that? YOU are responsible. Not Orrin. He might like you he might throw you a bone but do you really thing he is going to sit there and help all of you on some off-the-wall journey if you fail? They way the TEAM blows IBOS out as fast as the get in speaks for that…

    Get REAL people. Don’t sit here thinking so great of Orrin. He is his own man. Get of your butt and do something for yourself.

    There will not be any replies to this, because any “good” comment here is ignored and just a bunch of kids flaming the world and praising Orrin like some savior.

    He is just a man people. No smarter, no better then you. Quit being so ignorant and make a future for yourself and stop worrying about creating a future for Orrin at your own expense.
  4. Very Sad Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 10:50 am

    I can hardly believe what is taking place here! WHERE ARE YOUR HEADS ALTICORE?!!!

    You NEED to be listening to the leaders in the busines! If it weren’t for them you wouldn’t be a successful company!!! As IBO’s we all should have had a say in the NAME CHANGiING BACK TO AMWAY as well as pricing of products! Which by the way if you honestly went out into the field, you would hear the complaints that the products on NOT competively priced, therefore it’s harder to sell at retail.

    And the way you are treating Orrin and all the others in appauling!!! We have praised Quixtar and all it’s leaders as well as owners throughout the years - particularly Rich and Jay for their vision. And for their sons and people that are not a part of their family to make decisions like this destroys that vision! Jay is probably turning over in his GRAVE!!!

    My opinion is I think the kids were spoon fed to much growing up and they really don’t know what HARD work and vision are. They have enough money for themselves and their family to sustain them till they die so why should they care?!! That is the attitude they are giving here and it’s so wrong! All the hard work Rich and Jay put into this company throughout the years and it’s going to be destroyed?!!!

    And mark my words…GREED and lack of integrity leads to death! When you continue to turn things around like this and run things they way you are running them…you watch the IBOS’s file law suit after law suit against the company for destroying their futures!

    You THINK you have it all made…watch how very fast it can falls apart when the RIGHT things are not being done!

    We will follow Orrin and Chris as well as others that we KNOW are going to also take a stand here for what is RIGHT!! And we will continue to pray for you…for that is ALSO the right thing to do!

    So very sad!
  5. TJ Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 10:54 am

    I hope you guys listen to the IBOA Board Members. The People are why you have a business not the product you sell. If you do not listen to the Board then WHAT? The Top Board Members with some of the Youngest and Largest Businesses are even SHOCKED. Make decision with the Boards Help. Yes the U.S Market might be small compaired to the world market but it still matters. It where it got it mark and start. What happens here in the U.S ripples the world. Changing the name back to AMWAY can not be a Positive. Yes you can go back to a Global holing company but that will not Hold water in actively building IBO in the U.S Market. You should rename the U.S market Quixtar sites as the lines of sponsorship such as BWW or LTD or WWDB or Team5000 giving independent rights to product line throw affilation not AMWAY or QUIXTAR. This would rid U.S stereo types which is killing the prospecting of the business.
  6. TJ Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 10:57 am

    I love this business but the Corporation is not giving the Rights to the IBO who are building the business and creating the relationship.
  7. Jester311 Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 11:11 am

    I just wish to say one last thing. The belief and opportunity that TEAM has created in me, in my presentations of the plan, is incredible.

    I just went on a follow-through with one of my IBO’s in my second leg (I have 26 in my first leg that I brought in only 2, and now 2 in my second leg that I have only brought in 1, and I am just getting started!). I explained to this fantastic prospect that we are TEAM. I explained that the distribution and compensation is provided by Quixtar. I explained that TEAM and Quixtar will likely be parting ways and there will be other exciting opportunities coming in the future. I explained that there was not yet anything official until the courts play out (yes, I told her about the complaint).

    What did this woman tell me? “How can that be?” “Are you trying to scam me?” No, she said that she was signing up for the opportunity offered by my business, my TEAM, and would follow whereever TEAM goes. She signed the paperwork to be a Quixtar IBO and we are working with her to build and develop her business.

    I say this to those that think that long-time TEAM members are ‘brainwashed’, ‘cultist’ or whatever is being said about us. This woman had none of that influence.

    I was completely forthcoming about the business relationship she was signing with. I was truthful about any questions she did have. I never slandered or held Quixtar in contempt. My tone was professional when explaining that TEAM was looking for another distributor to cover the “commerce” portion of Michael Dell’s Content, Commerce, and Community concept.

    To her, it didn’t matter who was providing the compensation, products, and services. It was TEAM’s committment to her and her business that mattered.

    I have been an IBO for a year now. I have not once found any useful information on the quixtar website to help me build my business. I do not know what binary building means. I have an understanding of what it means to go 6-4-2, but doesn’t that create competition within your organization!?

    I would rather be a part of working together to reach a goal, any goal. Together Everyone Achieves More. See all of my fellow TEAMmates on the journey to a million people. It will be legal, moral, and ethical. It will happen, there isn’t a doubt in my mind.

    I bear no ill will to any Quixtar/Amway IBO. I sincerely wish you the best of luck with your continued growth. Please know this: I have yet to hear a positive comment about the Amway name from prospects I have spoken with in the Great Lakes region. One Quixtar (non-TEAM) IBO stated succinctly(sp) saying that 8 out of 10 people he had talked to over his 10 year business had a very negative view of the Amway presense and history in the North American market.

    It’s going to be hard, but not impossible. Good luck to you all.
  8. Chris Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 11:17 am

    Is this what we have to look foward to here in the US?

    OK, let’s talk UK
  9. Alex Pfarr Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 11:29 am

    As a true believer in the AMWAY Business Opportunity, I find it hard to think anyone could disagree with this statement. It is an absolute privilage to be involved with this Company and for those who cannot appreciate what it has to offer need to GO! So they’re right! GO TEAM, GO!! GO AWAY!! And I’m not reffering to most IBO’S platinum or BELOW. I’m reffering to the disgraceful leaders of what could have been a great organization. Rich DeVos believed in Compassionate Capitalism, not GREEDY Capitalism!! They must have forgotten to read that book! For you down the ranks of this organization; don’t let others failures determine your path towards success. Shake it off and move on with the ETHICAL people that you find everywhere in this business.
  10. Deann Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 11:29 am

    #388
    “Hello - YES it’s all about the community. But guess who owns that Community … Quixtar does!”

    FACT…NO ONE OWNS ME !
  11. Freedom Fighter Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 11:30 am

    Did all of you know that Alticor owns a competing Cosmetic line that retails both online and at retail stores? I didn’t until last night

    http://www.lauramercier.com/corporate_pressreleases.php

    I hope this link works to take you to the press release page

    Wow, we have a no-compete clause we didn’t ever really sign and they have a competing beauty company

    If the link doesn’t work, look at the companies the list on the website, click on Grunwich and then press release
  12. Big News About Amway - MLM Forum Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 11:34 am

    […] were a part of the crew that got wacked… Alticor’s official statement is linked below: Alticor Media Blog Blog Archive Just go, Team __________________ Brian Robertson (from MLM Stuff) MLM Blog | MLM Forum | MLM Wiki | MLM […]
  13. Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 11:36 am

    Chris: You may refer to the above posting on our Amway media blog, which shows the copy of the original letter you’d pasted into your comment. You are encouraged to join the conversation related to the UK issue on that blog, as well.
  14. Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 11:40 am

    Santony: Your comment submitted on Aug 14, 11:15 AM is rather lengthy. As stated above, we do not wish to censor comments but must cap length. We look forward to the resubmission of your comment, and appreciate your cooperation and participation.
  15. Abandoned Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 11:40 am

    I have been around the Amway/Quixtar business for about 15 years, and have been an IBO for 9 years. For the first time ever, I am seriously considering leaving the business. I am disillusioned and hurt. The Team model brought some fresh hope to nubby little legs who’ve stuck in there for years, waiting for SOME leadership & direction.

    I am sick over this. I feel ripped off and totally abandoned now.

    And I’m ashamed to be associated with a company that would post such dirty laundry so publicly. The facts should be stated and left.

    … so, what now, Big Ol’ Am-star? I mean, we, the little leaguers on the Team, what are WE supposed to do? We followed our leaders and here we are. We’ve sunk money into tools that are now deemed obsolete, and we’ve invested hope in a forbidden system BECAUSE we were good little followers. How do you intend to help us rebuild? Or will we be doomed to proverbial FEMA trailers …?
  16. Alex Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 11:43 am

    Ty Tribble…

    You said it perfectly!

    Bo Short is pathetic, and I never thought I would say it but so is WOODWARD!

    And for the one who is so proud of 3 Diamonds breaking and “all” your Emeralds in TEAM….

    WHY DO YOU THINK???????

    STACKING RING A BELL??????
  17. Chris Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 11:45 am

    I am not sure how the team has done anything wrong on quixtar’s website in the business rules it is posted “IBOs Are Not Employees As an IBO, you are not an employee, agent, or legal representative of Quixtar, but rather a self-employed independent contractor authorized by Quixtar to sell its products and register others who do the same. Quixtar exercises no control over the amount of time you devote to the business or the amount of income you derive from it. You should NOT, at any time, represent to anyone that you are an employee of Quixtar. This includes listing Quixtar as your “employer” on loan applications and government forms. Do not ask lenders or other parties to call Quixtar to verify your income or financial status because Quixtar will not be able to provide this information.”

    It seems to me that Quixtar makes it very clear IBO’s are not signing up in quixtar.
  18. ltrtltrt Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 12:00 pm

    Can #309 be that naive to think that Team was behind her failed junk mail seminar from Google? Guess what…I am not affliated with the Team, so this will not be pro Team and anti-Quixtar. Just like typical blogs, anyone can post and you get all kinds of garbage to read.
  19. ICE T Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 12:05 pm

    GREED & EGO. It always comes down to those 2 things. The CORP is flat out, unwilling to listen to the field. Too many “corporate” people making decisions. Corporate people have never built a business nor had to deal with the issues that REAL IBO’s have to deal with, and they’re are unwilling to listen to the field. Can’t decrease the founding families profits, at the expense of the field. The TEAM has had enough, has a much better compensation plan, one that shares the wealth with all, not the founding families and decided to take a stand. They were punished for it, but fret not, they are very smart and probably had plans in anticipating such a move.

    I’m very disappointed in the classless way both parties have acted.

    HATE the corp forcing Amway down our throats. Once again, don’t listen, don’t seem to care.
  20. kdun Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 12:16 pm

    Hello All!!

    As a member of TEAM I’d say it was simply time for a change. This break from Quixtar wasn’t meant to hurt anything or anyone but to take this line of business to the next level. I honestly cannot think of another group ready for such a challenge than TEAM.

    For those TEAM members out there…hold your head high and be proud of what you’ve learned both professionaly and personally. No one can take that away!!! We’re above this!
  21. Chris Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 12:18 pm

    i have seen reference to the name change back to amway where can I get that confirmed?
  22. Mike Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 12:21 pm

    # 362, The free shipping program is a part of the comp plan now (permanent). For all organizations. It was a test for your organization. It’s no - longer a test. It’s part of the comp plan. Not after your group shoulder’d it, I don’t even no what org your a part of. We made it work. Now everybody gets the beneifit for their clients. Those folks doing retail will beneifit. I wish this had a forum to do a cost compare. what families save with free shipping. savings with gas, impulse buy, and time. The habit thing, you still run into, but you guys and this more expensive attitudes. I would love to explain why a family can save 5-10K per year. The ditto. I just don’t get it. But I know for years I did not either. Our folks were all about big shot amway/quixtar and did not teach the basics. I wish I could, but it would be cross lining. I still love to. It would blow your mind. Have anyone reading this blog done an actual cost compare where they normally shop? I would like a show of hands, seriously. This is not a dig either. It takes 5 minutes at the local store and 10 product prices.
  23. Chuck Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 12:26 pm

    Freedom Fighter,

    You really should keep up a bit. The Laura Mercier purchase from Neiman Marcus has been public knowledge for a year. If you had read the press release you cited you would have noticed that Alticor stated in it that they hoped the purchase would assist the company in developing its understanding of the luxury cosmetics business and benefit it’s core Artistry cosmetic and skin care lines in the future. Alticor also owns another cosmetics firm, Funkhouser New York. By the way, both companies are “hidden from everyone” on the home page of the Alticor website.

    But then again, if all you sell is XS, what importance do the other lines carry with you anyway?
  24. Jacek and Heather Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 12:32 pm

    I truly respect everyone’s opinion. This is something the TEAM system has taught me. My opinion is always welcome. Orrin Woodward once said, “A person of opinion, will always be at the mercy of person who knows the facts”.
    Which leads to my point. The business support materials through the TEAM are SECOND TO NONE!
    They don’t teach materialistic values! They simply teach principles in life that are essential for any person regardless of where they’ve come from in life. They teach people that in order to make changes in life, you have to be willing change. The TEAM leadership has told everyone from day one that “NOBODY CAN BEG YOU to become successful, however, if you choose to take the path of success, the TEAM will be there by your side every step of the way. The TEAM leadership teaches principles that we should all live by regardless of who you are, what color you are or where you’ve been in life up until now. It’s calle “confronting reality”! Until I learned to do that, I settled for average. Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady are not average. They’ve set the TEAM training system up so brilliantly that the people who choose to be unaverage in a time when it is so badly needed in society and choose take the leadership role that they can actually profit by investing in their own brains! That’s right. Choose to lead rather than take the “back seat” in life, and the profits from the business support materials from the TEAM will be shared with you as well.
    And no person can tell me different because I’m living proof of that! When I chose to lead rather than make excuses for my miserable life, I too share in those profits. Those profits have given me choices in life. Like my church, my charities, my faith, my family, my TIME!
    I will never be above learning ever again in my life…….. Thank you Orrin and Chris and the fantastic TEAM LEADERSHIP! I am forever indebted to you.
  25. Gary Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    So, when will you continue the cleanup by addressing the tool system abuses throughout the largest organizations?
  26. Lee Ziegler Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 12:37 pm

    My Vote is for Charlie Marsh chairman of the board!!!
  27. Christa Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 12:38 pm

    After reading all the posts, blogs, emails, and news bulletins regarding the battle between TEAM and QUIXTAR, I can honestly say I am at a loss. Quixtar bad mouthed people who I have come to respect. I have not been a member of TEAM long (less than 2 months) but I have heard people like Chris and Terri Brady, Orrin and Laurie Woodward, Kirk and Cassie Birttles, and many others speak. They speak from their hearts and truly care about every member of their association. You can not know these people and not feel God’s presence shining through them.
    Alticore promotes “building a business by retailing products” and convincing other households to do the same. My question is, How can that be done when the products are priced so high? As an I.B.O., we receive a discounted, “Wholesale” price. We also receive compensation of 3%-25% on a monthly basis. For us, the cost is equal to the quality of the merchandise. What do our “retail” customers get??? They get to pay more for a product because it may be slightly superior to what thay are already using and they have the ease of having the stuff sent right to them. Where is the value in that?
    A good example of this is the SA8 laundry detergent. It is stated that a 6.6 lb box of SA8 (which retails at $22.75 plus shipping and tax) is “so concentrated that it would take 2 1/2 4.37lb. boxes of Tide to do the same number of washloads. (100)” Considering that a 4.37lb box of Tide washes 40 loads of laundry, the math becomes elementary. The problem is, you can buy a 4.37 lb box of Tide for $6.89. Therefore, 2 1/2 boxes would cost you $20.67 plus tax. That’s a $2.00 savings!!! While I love SA8, (I used it as an Amway product many years ago and use it now as an I.B.O. with TEAM) I would have no problem swithching back to Tide to save the money. The ONLY reason I use it, because Quixtar pays me too!!!! Why should our “customers” use it???? It just isn’t cost beneficial to them. (Unless they are receiving it at I.B.O. cost.)
    Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady designed a system known as DOT 1/ STEP. This system is intended to introduce all new I.B.O.’s to the “core products” (The ones with the best PV/BV ratio). By having new I.B.O.’s place an order on the first of the month it gives them access to these core products, intrduces them to the Quixtar Ordering Site, and allows them to receive a compensation check within their first month on TEAM. Everyone knows that people will buy products if they get them discounted. (Just look at how well places like Sam’s club, B.J.’s, Costco, and the rest are doing) How many people will go to the store and buy Wisk instead of Tide just because they have a 75 cent coupon and it’s triple coupon day??? DOT 1/ STEP is no different. After the initial shipment, you can change the order to be more in line with what your personal needs are. I know, personally, my DOT 1 order has XS (which is a core product) but also includes Nutrilite Vitamins, dog food, cat litter, and diapers. I am still maintaining the minimum PV needed to receive my compensation check but I am doing it with products I will use. Not once have I heard anything from TEAM uplines telling me I MUST switch my DOT 1 to strictly core products!!!!The purpose of DOT 1 is not to force people to buy products, it’s to help them see the potential in this business by helping them earn money. Last time I checked, isn’t that what ALL businesses want???
  28. Piet Strydom Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 12:38 pm

    Can any IBO moving with TEAM please tell me what they will be selling? Where will the money come from?
  29. Christa Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 12:43 pm

    Alot of things have been posted about the money the TEAM leaders have made through the “tools”. I was with the business for 3 months before I ever purchased a cd and 5 months before I bought a book. I did not attend the weekly team meetings but I did go to the monthly seminars. In my opinion, $25 is not too much to pay to hear the great speakers that come in to teach. Even the “major” conferences ($90 a ticket) are an incredible bargain. Where else would you get 2 days to listen to people like Robert Rohm, John Maxwell, Brian Tracy, and many other leaders in the business world? I have received invitations to go hear some of these people speak for 3 hours at almost TRIPLE the cost of what we pay for 2 DAYS!!!! The money that is made at these meetings and by selling tickets to these meetings goes to pay the speakers for their time, it pays for their hotel and flight accomadations, and it pays for their food expenses. It DOES NOT go to “line the pockets” of the great TEAM leaders. People who think that it does, obviously never had to deal with arranging a large conference with multiple speakers. Let me assure you, it is not an inexpensive process. When all is said and done, our TEAM leaders barely receive any compensation for all the time and effort they put into arranging the event.
    As far as the money that you need to spend for c.d’s ($6.00 a piece/ $12.00 total per week), Who among us hasn’t gone out and spent that much on music c.d’s? How many of us bought into the “Time Life music collectons”? (You know, the ones that have all the greatest hits of the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s, or 80’s) Who hasn’t gone out and bought the season worth of videos or dvd’s of their favorite shows? (I don’t think they would be selling the 10th season of Seinfeld or Friends, the 2nd season of Lost, or whatever season they are on of Everybody Loves Raymond, Sex in the City, or The Sopranos if people somewhere weren’t buying them!) The only reason people complain about the cost of the cd’s is because it isn’t “entertaining” to them. If you are building a business, investing in your future, and trying to become a better person, the books and cd’s are more than entertaining. They are life changing!!!!
    The most interesting thing about the tools is, Orrin and Chris aren’t the ones benefitting from them. All profits from the sale of that material gets distributed to the downlines who are “platinum” or above. So yes, we who are the low man on the totem pole are paying money that eventually falls into the hands of our uplines. Is there anything wrong with that??? Some of our uplines travel HOURS to show a plan with you or just counsel with you. They don’t demand payment for their time. If they make some money off the tools that they sell, GOOD FOR THEM! At least they are receiving some compensation for all the time they freely give to their evergrowing downlines.
  30. Mike Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 12:49 pm

    I’d been approached about being an IBO, but some basic web research led me here. I can tell you, this isn’t anything I care to associated with. If you folks are going to engage in this type of thing, perhaps you should be less public about.

    So are you really just trying to take my money and run, or are you guys actually engaged in a real business?
  31. G Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 12:56 pm

    Interesting … over on the IBOAI website, it states a Quixtar Inc North American Founders Council and IBOAI joint statement regarding this debacle.

    I know who the first and third entities are and what role they play in this drama … but darned if you can find any info on NAFC or spelled out on any corporate or the IBOAI site.

    If they have to be cloaked in secrecy (which seems to be the modus operandi) who gives a flippin ripp what they agree to … and if you whack all the folks who disagree off the IBOAI board (some of the media now even call it “terminated” or “fired”) just what would you expect the rest of the board to say?

    Actually, they don’t appear to say anything other than what the Corp legal department has already said. How’s that for an organization whose web site greeting says in part “We are an independent organization dedicated to representing the interests of Independent Business Owners (IBOs) throughout North America”.

    Not too independent, eh?

    When do IBO’s get their back-dated W2’s, guys?
  32. rico Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 1:14 pm

    Re: 411 from Freedom fighter…

    Thanks for the eye opener.

    It seems that the main rift is over the non-competition clause. I went to the Mercier site and…

    “Alticor Inc. today announced that it acquired Gurwitch Products, a luxury cosmetics and skin care company that develops, manufactures and markets cosmetics under the brand name Laura Mercier®, from The Neiman Marcus Group.”

    The article continues…

    “Laura Mercier will continue to be an important part of the cosmetics assortment at both Neiman Marcus and Bergdorf Goodman.”

    Alticor’s non-competition statement, is starting to look like a case of “don’t do what we do, but do what we say.”

    Maybe that’s OK for some. There have been a few posts that indicate that we are owned by Alticor. May they should call themselves OBOs — Owned Business Owners. Alticor will protect you and make sure that no one steals you.

    They will make sure that no new MLM competes with you but they will compete with you themselves.

    You can’t sell Alticor products in a retail store, but Alticor can sell them through Neiman Marcus.
  33. Christa Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 1:19 pm

    They claim Quixtar is an illegal pyramid because it “forces you to recruit downline members in order to produce enough volume to receive compensation”. This is true! If you could retail the products easier, it wouldn’t be neccessary to find such big downlines. (Of course, you still would have them because we all know this business is the best thing out there and we want everyone to be part of something that’s the best.) Quixtar is turning around and saying that TEAM is the illegal pyramid because we “force people to join DOT 1″ (which Quixtar supported from the beginning) and we have a structure in place on our teams that builds communities.
    I think we all have to listen to our own hearts to decide what is right. In my opinion, My husband and I are the business, Team is the franchising principle we bought into, and Quixtar is our supplier. We could not have the successful business that we have without some sort of system. If it’s not TEAM, it would be something else. For us, TEAM was the best one out there. We also could not have a business without some sort of product and QUIXTAR offers the best products and the best customer service. Unfortunately, they DO NOT offer the best prices and they no longer seem interested in the concerns of their I.B.O’s. Maybe there is a better “supplier” out there, I don’t know! I do know that if there is, I would like the opportunity to pursue it. This is MY CHOICE, not TEAM’s, not QUIXTARS, MINE!!!! It’s my life, I need to do what’s best. All I ask is that Quixtar rethink it’s position and allow poeople the opportunity to make their own choices. After all, This is the “Land of the Free”, isn’t it?
  34. greg Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 1:26 pm

    # 395 you are complaining about loyalty to DEXTER– give me a huge break! The diamonds who have left and are planning to leave stayed WITH DEX until Dex was basically no longer in the picture. They were then working with his boys who knew VERY little about actually building this business and how to work with those who had, the boys had very little wisdom that comes with the time invested in building this business yet had their names under a title of crown ambassador with all the status that goes with it! Right and left they proved that they would side with their pets even when their pets were wrong. They (the boys)built a large tool business and grew greedy with that. All the sudden when their tool business drops dramatically now WE are no longer loyal. Guess what…the diamonds who have chosen to go and those planning to go were NEVER LOYAL TO THE BOYS- they were loyal to the system and when another system proves better and when this system allows money from tools to actually begin to be shared with everyone and not just the big guys then it was time to go. Just because you are a SON of a great leader does not mean you deserve the respect of that great leader. You have to earn it- you have to invest your blood , sweat and tears and gain the wisdom yourself and you have to deal with people honorably. IT MEANS you have to give respect to those who actually built it and not just inherited it. Dexter built it- we respected him and loved him and the only way we could continue to show our respect and love for him was to finally after years of remaining stagnant begin to see growth again.
  35. Tony W Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 1:31 pm

    I think Quixtar needs to fix the problem! Most of our prices are TOO HIGH! End of argument. XS, the bars, and maybe DoubleX are reasonably priced. From time to time you can find some really good deals on clearance. But for the majority of the stuff we are 15% - 200% higher! We cannot build a real retail business with the current prices! Forget the $70 million in new bonuses! Forget the $200 million global advertising campaign. Lower The PRICES!!

    Maybe Orrin was doing things less than ethical. We’re all afraid to use the word Quixtar or Amway! Its always mentioned at our meetings, and I’ve never registered someone without telling them the name of the company, but I’d really bring it up on a contact. Because of all the negative out there! Caused by the company with Too High of prices, and the Systems which may or may not be pushing their tools too hard!

    I think the systems need to produce only Top of the Line training materials, and Alticor needs to lower their prices. And if advertising is done, it needs to be done to niche markets! And it needs to be about the brands: XS, Nutrilite - not Quixtar or Amway!

    And the name change back to Amway needs to be thrown out the window!! Not yet, good idea, but too soon! Amway arena, should have been Quixtar Arena. In 5 years, if no improvement, then change (back) to Amway. Aagh!
  36. Christa Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 1:42 pm

    Orrin and Chris (and the other I.B.O’s who were terminated from Quixtar) were not asking for much. They simply wanted lower prices on products that could be successfully reatailed. If Quixtar would have listened to them and lowered a few prices they would have seen a lot more product movement. But then, that’s why they didn’t listen, isn’t it? The more product they are moving, the more money they have to pay the I.B.O’s who are moving it. Seems that they are just concerned about the bottom line and how much gets put in their pockets each week.
    The “allegations” of “stacking” are unfounded and biased. While the “TEAM approach” does indeed mean that your next potential downline could be someone you don’t know, it is not someone you won’t meet. If people are doing things correctly, you are brought into plans and follow throughs with the potential downline. You know their names and their faces. You may not know which country their Great-Great-Great Grandfather came from, but you DO KNOW THEM!!! Considering the TEAM paperwork requires the SIGNATURE of the immediate sponsor, wouldn’t that person have to be there when the paperwork is filled out? Think about it people, Quixtar is vague in ALL their accusations because they are just trying to COVER THEIR ….. you know!
    Whether you joined with TEAM originally, or just became part of it through a merger, it’s all the same. Orrin and Chris are not teaching anything different now then they did 10 years ago. We have all heard the cd’s, gone to the seminars, and read the books. From the beginning they talked about helping people, growing yourself so you can become a leader and grow a business, and having a business where you can change your buying habits to make a little profit. They encourage people to go out and retail products but they have noticed that it has become increasingly more difficult to do that.
  37. Jeffrey Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 2:04 pm

    The TEAM people just don’t get it. When you register with A/Q, you agree to abide by their rules. If you break the rules, you face the consequences.

    My wife used to be an assistant manager of a Wendy’s restaurant. She had to do absolutely everything by the book. Some of it did not make sense. It didn’t matter. Wendy’s said it had to be a certain way, so that’s the way she did it.

    Do you think General Motors doesn’t tell their dealers how to run their dealership? Duh. The Chevy dealer I buy my cars from recently did a major renovation and addition to their facilities. One of the managers told me that they had to submit and re-submit their plans to GM until they were “approved.” (Content Reviewed?) Then, GM sent a rep down that stayed here until all the renovations were complete so he could make sure it was done exactly to GM’s specs and rules. If they had gone off and done their own thing, GM would have pulled the franchise. It would have made no difference to GM that they are the 2nd largest Chevy dealership in Iowa. Play by the rules or you are out. It’s as simple as that.
  38. HDK Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 2:05 pm

    we have heard nothing but bad about this group for years and the leader in particular. good by and good riddens. you have given the rest of us a bad name long enough. way to go Quixtar
  39. Rithban Kirda Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 2:10 pm

    After chatting with my spouse, we’re not renewing.

    “Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.”

    This is an official statement from a corporation?!?!?!?!? Such rhetoric is shameful. Juvenile. Unbelievable. NOT CREDIBLE.

    Not for just these communiqués, but the other changes that have and are coming. Those we put up with thus far but… I’m just in shock that any respectable corporation would act THIS way. At this point I don’t care how much in the right Quixtar may or may not be. I don’t care how much in the right TEAM may or may not be.

    This is the third official communication that I’ve read, and something is rotten in Ada. Things have changed in the last several years. This is not the business we signed with 15 years ago.

    I’m… just thunderstruck. But we’ll move on and prosper as abundance originates ultimately with the individual, and is brought into fruition with voluntary exchange with like-minded people. This is the heart-breaking “straw” that has brought us out of denial that we really are not of like mind anymore.

    We’ll bid a heart-felt adieu to our friends, close Dynasty’s doors, and turn our focus to our other business interests. May we continue to meet as friends and celebrate our lives.

    My best wishes goes out to my fellow IBOs. May you prosper in all your endeavours.

    May we all walk according to conscience, unswayed by lucre.

    “Now to my word;
    It is ‘Adieu, adieu! remember me.
    I have sworn’t.’”
    Hamlet Act I Scene V
  40. Gen 2 IBO Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 2:14 pm

    To #417: We are Independent Business Owners that are affiliated with Quixtar and sign a contract every year which provides us the opportunity to participate in the Quixtar IBO Compensation Plan, buy product at a lower price, and receive support provided by Quixtar (like an awesome Customer Support center, selling tools, catalogs, special mailings, personal websites and lots of other stuff.) I get all this for less than $50 per year! (Yes, I know the company also makes $$ when I buy product from them…but since I only buy and sell the products that I really like and consider competitively priced [and I don’t mean compared to Walmart..because I couldn’t buy equivalent quality at Walmart and don’t shop there] I’m good with them earning $ afterall, that’s BUSINESS!

    I get a comp plan, products, and support/framework from Quixtar (thank you! cuz I sure as heck wouldn’t have much of a business without all that…) and training and motivational material/events/support from my team(thank you! cuz I would have given up ages ago without that support) to run my business. I do it my way…with help and advice from my friends. It’s not Quixtar’s business. It’s not my upline’s business. It’s mine. But I depend on Quixtar to make it work.
  41. nothing Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 2:25 pm

    Wow, sounds like “14%” really does upset large companies. Your prices are rediculous. I am a part of TEAM and the only way I make bonus is to spend $300 or more to get 3% bonus and hopefully sell them, unlikely, or sign up several people that are willing to spend $150 on your products. For you to come out with these comments and slander after all the times Orin has tried to get you guys to listen about price changes? It’s simply unethical and disrespectful. I will follow TEAM and their leaders wherever they decide is best. Good luck with the court case.
  42. HSW Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 2:47 pm

    #429 Christa,
    Thanks for the explanation about the distribution of tool money within the TEAM system. That’s one of the positive changes that Orrin and Chris were able to accomplish.
    An issue that had created lots of destruction and separation in the past within several organizations. Rewards to those who perform. What’s wrong with that? And you are right, the up line of the new IBO will help him to grow his business in numbers and knowledge. The payback will take place when that IBO will help somebody else in his down line. In the meantime
    relationships are formed that last for a lifetime.
    I believe that the same moral values are possible in the distribution of profits and bonuses to those who perform. The desire to create something that pays fairly for performance attracted many other Diamond organizations that joined the TEAM spirit. For many of them it was simply the only way out to survive corporate politics in the future.”Together we can move mountains”.
  43. Scott Weible Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 2:49 pm

    Billy, Don, Randy and Chuck ought to be ashamed of themselves.
  44. blk-shp Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 2:50 pm

    Thank God for those 8 “Freedom Fighters” who resigned from the IBOAI board! They exposed to all of us some of the details of what appears to be a battle that has been waging with the DeVos and Van Andel families for years with no relief in sight! Talk about “deaf ears”!

    Without them this could have been another “ENRON” debacle with all of us wondering “how did this happen”?

    Now, it already seems that the “watered down” IBOAI board is “in bed” with whatever Alticor/Amway/Quixtar? wants to do as noted in the IBOAI’s response to all of IT’s (IBOAI)members in a message from Quixtar.
    Is this the “new” Fox watching the “old” hen-house?
    I guess the one’s that are left weren’t willing to risk everything for all.

    Remember, “Those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither”!–Ben Franklin

    Let your voice be heard @: iboai@iboai.com This is your business not a hobby.
  45. Brian L Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 3:07 pm

    Christa, #s 427 & 429. You nailed it girl. Somehow I’m guessing we learned from the same great system. Problem is, we’re trying to influence a lot of 95%’rs. Their 3 C’s are the ones found in Les Giblin’s Top 5 book ;)
    Love ‘em anyway!

    I made some of the same valid points earlier and was accused of drinking the Kool-Aid, so beware. Actually, I was drinking the sugar-free stuff from Meijer at roughly 1/3 of the price; can’t afford the $23 (3.47 pv) stuff from the current shopping site. Looks like a lot of others didn’t either, as that product is recently discontinued. The hundreds of customers myself and my downlines wasted our time to set up to retail felt the same I found.
    In reality, every one of us just wants a better life for our family - just like Republicans and Democrats - each just has his/her own view of how that will take place. (doesn’t make either right or wrong!!) I think the Republicans got it right in virtually every area. I’m a big Sean Hannity fan, some of you will blast me on that too!

    Mike #430, this is a real business, and you can make more here than you ever dreamed of, but only if you make the choice to become the person capable of leading a group of people and have them believe in your cause. (good points for all of us to remember) Good luck in your decision.
    I’m following the the 15 named “terminated” for I feel they have our best interests in mind. These are leaders, not positional, silver-spoon, nepotism-created corporation owners. Goin to 1,000,000 and beyond with the TEAM on a Stampede!
  46. Mike Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 3:12 pm

    #427. you are not telling the whole truth. The instructions say that if hard water use two scoops. I have never seen anybody use the SA8 properly and not get 125 loads. Have you gone over what the fillers due to washing machines or people with sensitive skin. How white turn dingy after a few loads of tide. High efficiency Tide, they take out more cleaner and add more filler. 1/3 filler, 1/3 smell good, 1/3 cleaner (that’s what you get with tide) I thing your not calculating in your mind. Ladies don’t buy powder tide. They buy liquid. which is never as strong as the powder because they manufacturer can’t suspend as much materials in it. So, the gals are buying 100oz liquid (not powder) 25-30 times a year. It is easier to pour, no filler in machine or on cloths, easier to carry. Your box gets bought 3-4 times a year. But they are over priced! I think you folks are struggling to answer concentration questions, price comparison questions. You know the stuff is good, you don’t have a story to tell. You can’t merchandise, becuase you don’t do product demos and don’t know how to explain the value. 18.85 per box at cost, 22.75 at retail.
  47. Christa Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 3:18 pm

    Orrin and Chris (and the other I.B.O’s who were terminated from Quixtar) were not asking for much. They simply wanted lower prices on products that could be successfully reatailed. If Quixtar would have listened to them and lowered a few prices they would have seen a lot more product movement. But then, that’s why they didn’t listen, isn’t it? The more product they are moving, the more money they have to pay the I.B.O’s who are moving it.
    The “allegations” of “stacking” confuse me. While the “TEAM approach” does indeed mean that your next potential downline could be someone you don’t know, it is not someone you won’t meet. If people are doing things correctly, you are brought into plans and follow throughs with the potential downline. You know their names and their faces. You may not know which country their Great-Great-Great Grandfather came from, but you DO KNOW THEM!!!
    Whether you joined with TEAM originally, or just became part of it through a merger, it’s all the same. Orrin and Chris are not teaching anything different now then they did 5 years ago. We have all heard the cd’s, gone to the seminars, and read the books. From the beginning they talked about helping people, growing yourself so you can become a leader and grow a business, and having a business where you can change your buying habits to make a little profit. They ENCOURAGE people to go out and retail products. All they want is more products that are retailable.
  48. Christa Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 3:20 pm

    Please ignore all these duplicate messages. I am trying to write something that isn’t “awaiting moderation” and will actually be posted. If you all are seeing my posts multiple times, I sincerly apologize! Just trying to make my small voice heard among the din.
  49. jl Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 3:23 pm

    Freedom Fighter

    I’m with you, I didn’t know about the other cosmetic line until today either, (sorry Chuck, no need to respond).

    As long as it benefits the Alticor umbrella, who cares if it creates competition for Quixtar (I mean Amway) IBOs.
  50. Kristin Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 3:24 pm

    As a member of Team/Quixtar, I have been disillusioned with both Team AND Quixtar during the last 3 months. Mostly because recent events were the straw that broke the camel’s back & this whole thing has turned into a real pi$$ing contest complete with the pointing of fingers. I really don’t care who is at fault and I have actually read the court document complaint from Team about Quixtar (all 47 pages of them!!!!!).

    The thing that bothers me the most is that if Quixtar was so bad, then why did Orrin & Co. stay with it for as long as they did??? You can’t tell me that it took 10 yrs (or more) to “figure out” that the prices Quixtar were charging were “too high” and not “ethical” in terms of building a business?? They complained about it according to the court document, but it took 10 yrs to “take offical action”? Makes me wonder how much money Team founders made off their IBOs during that time (10 yrs worth….how much is that…can we take a wild GUESS????). It only took me 3 months to figure out that the prices of the Quixtar products weren’t all that great. So between the “high prices” from Quixtar and Team pushing “the biz” and waiting 10 yrs to file a legal complaint, I don’t trust either one of these companies anymore.

    Sorry to say I won’t be renewing my IBO in the coming year. Lesson learned. I’m going back to Costco & Sam’s club. BYE BYE!!!!!
  51. rico Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 3:30 pm

    I heard once that if someone has a bad experience on average they will tell 11 people. If someone has a good experience, on average they will tell 3 people.

    News of the crazy conflict is already spreading.

    I wonder what would happen if all IBOs stopped buying for personal consumption and only bought what they can sell retail — after all, that’s the way Quixtar says we’re to build the buisness and we wouldn’t want to break their rules.

    I took auto renewal and ditto off today. We’ll see what happens on a moment by moment basis. I don’t think Amway, Alticor, Quixtar, whatever they want to be called, can pull it out of the tailspin.
  52. Mike Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 3:31 pm

    Let’s not talk about loc, the cleaners, fuel additive. The eye cream (18.85) you would pay 45 for (not even a pharmecutical grade product), or the what? what product do you want to talk about? Is XS to expensive?
  53. Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    Christa: Thank you. We presumed you weren’t trying to repeat yourself on purpose.

    Chris: We announced the company’s transformation back in June on the Amway media blog as well as on the Opportunity Zone. Plenty of discussion, if you’re interested.
  54. Kim Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 3:56 pm

    I hope everybody has a chance to go to the “OZ” (Opportunity Zone) and read the new post there. Looks like the “Gang of 8″ could see the writing on the walls of “Q”.
  55. Mike Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    wow, no comments about how to sell SA8. No comments about cost compare. I am guessing this a group of folks that regular ibo’s. the cheaper products I listed. Try to price out trash bags. Buy from walmart or china same thing. buy from target or china/france. I said you could with factual numbers show customer’s savings and your selves.

    How do you get back to orrin or brady and I am going down with the ship crap. I am talking to non-active ibos
  56. J.D.B. Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    Mommy says to Johnny “don’t eat the cookie” Johnny eats the cookie anyway and then blames Mommy because Mommy did not stop him.

    Orrin Woodward attracted thousands of people to Team by telling them they could have a business that is based on product volume but they will not have to sell products, just buy and use them yourself, or as stated repeatedly “just change your buying habits and teach others to do the same.”

    This is how Orrin Woodward and his Team grow so fast. Team has thousand of people in sales based businesses who really do not want to be sales people or sell products, but who do want a business that will make them “Job Optional.”

    The only way this will work is to use “Team Approach”, as it is called, where people are linked together in long line, where everyone in the initial “leg” works together to find and recruit new Team members. The products bonus point value goes up through the leg with the product volume increasing in size as long as the leg grows longer and with some IBOs buying and using the products themselves or “self consumption.”

    A business that was designed to be a home based product distributorship, where IBOs would focus on selling the products and find others who were interested in selling the products too, was switched into a business, by Team, that, for the most part, focused on recruiting others to recruit others and consequently the portion of Quixtar called Team became an illegal pyramid scheme itself, Quixtar is not an illegal pyramid scheme.

    Mommy (Quixtar) may be somewhat responsible for Johnny (Orrin Woodward) eating the cookie because Mommy did not stop him, but Johnny claims to be a man of impeccable character with very high ethics.
  57. LisBette Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 4:03 pm

    Jeffrey #435 - All well and good. But if I work at Wendy’s and don’t like the rules, I can leave and go work at Arby’s. If I own a Chevy dealership and don’t like the rules, I can close up or sell it and buy a Chrysler dealership. The reason Woodward et al. quit is because they didn’t like the rules. So let them go do whatever else they want!!!

    Freedom Fighter #411- Alticor’s purchase of an in-store cosmetics line just proves my allegation that Amway wants to get rid of its North American business as it is and start over with a whole new model, one that allows sales from retail stores. And the best way to get rid of existing IBOs is to make it impossible to do business, like change the name to Amway. (Gosh, if it’s name recognition they want, why not use “Osama bin Laden?”)

    Keep your prices, change your rules to whatever you like. Some of us will see it in time, and some lemmings (Gen2IBO, Jeffrey), will go blindly on until they crash and burn.
  58. Christa Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 4:07 pm

    Note to #446. I was NOT saying that SA8 was not superior to Tide. I know all about the fillers and other nonsense found in other commercial products. That’s why I was glad to switch from them to SA8. My comment was just that it makes no sense to pay the “retail” price plus shipping, handeling, and tax for SA8.
    Furthermore, I find your comments that “ladies don’t buy powder detergent, they buy liquid” to be extremly sexist. In case you haven’t figured it out, I’m a lady and I buy powder detergent. But, to continue with your theory that they buy 100 oz. LIQUID Tide, I have to say, my store has that on sale this week….2 for $11.00. What does Quixtar sell a 100 oz. liquid detergent for???? That’s right…they don’t!! They do have a 50 oz. bottle that retails for $14.35. HMMMM….200 ounces of Tide for $11.00 or 50 ounces of SA8 for $14.00. Which sounds like a better deal??? If we are thinking like a customer and not an I.B.O., I think most of us would be buying Tide.
    But hey, that’s just MY observation! The thing that’s great about this country is that you don’t have to agree with me!
  59. HSW Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 4:12 pm

    #443
    Sorry Scott that you have to feel that way. I wished you would have had a chance to get as close to some of these leaders as I did. Their vision and sacrifice will help you one day.
    And I believe that it will be gain and not a loss for you.
    In the meantime there is always the benefit of a doubt. “Men of integrity expect to be believed or have time proof them right”.
  60. just the facts Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 4:14 pm

    lets just look at fact.A-Z insert and delete as needed
    1. quixtar and team leaders no longer on the same page.
    2.A large # of the ethics board resigns
    3.Don, Billy, Fred, Randy all have years of experiance in the buisness and on the board.
    4.Billy and Randy made a open decision te join forces with Chris and Orrin.
    5.Chris and Orrin are the center of attack with a untarnished track record.
    6.all persons named to be terminated are walking away from millions of dollars in year end bonuses
    7.Quixtar issues a statement of ternination and of a lawsuit being filed.
    8.The back ground for lawsuit takes a significant amount of time to put together.

    alot of facts now some reasonable questions
    Why did the ethics committee walk out?
    Why would people with years of experiance make a decision to stand together with Chris and Orrin?
    When people have years of experiance in anything…they see things happening long befor they take place. What did these guys see and bank their future on?
    How long ago did this process really start to put some of these things in place (lawsuit)months? years?
    Why are Chris and Orrin the main ones being attacked?
    If Quixtar was not concerned with someone or thing being a worthwhile compeditor then Why not say “there is the door. Good Luck”

    Integrity is doing what you say. Character is long after the mood of the word you gave you do it anyway.
    People of integrity exspect to be beleived and when they are not they let time prove them right.
    And time will truely prove who is right.
  61. Rich Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 4:15 pm

    I am not an IBO. I am however involved with network marketing. I don’t know if you are all aware of how this is affecting the MLM world. If you think Amway / Quixtar had a bad name before, just wait. You have added so much fuel to that fire that I really feel sorry for all of you. As I have talked with people over the past few days the sentiment has all been the same. Amway / Quixtar is POISEN! Nobody seems to be able to trust anyone in the world of “Amway or Quixtar”. I had a fellow MLMer send me a copy of the Alticor article entitled “Just Go Team”. Wow!!! How unprofessional…and this from people who head up your company? No thank you. You have made my job a little easier recruiting people into my MLM company. I know that a lot of people are sending copies of Alticor’s response throughout the internet world. Whoever wrote that did a great job…for other network marketing companies. From the looks of things, Amway is imploding. Like I said, if you think Amway or Quixtar had a bad name before, I can’t even imagine what is in store now. Like I said, you have made my company look so much more appealing. I’m glad I am with the company I am with and not Quixtar or Amway or whatever name you are trying to hide from. I am just writing to tell you thanks again for making my job easier in letting the world know the true nature of Amway / Quixtar / Amway again….
  62. Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 4:19 pm

    Kim: Here is the link.
  63. Brian L Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 4:27 pm

    Kristin, #450
    As you can see, breaking away is no easy task. Look at all the chaos here. They don’t even want to let us go, and that’s all we’re asking. These 15 “spokesperson” leaders have tried in vain for a long time to get them to lower prices to compete with the places you mentioned. They were always told by Quixtar that it would be worked on, yet they were lied to. The Team has a vision of going to a million people, but definitely that couldn’t take place with a company with such bad pricing causing the impossibility of retailing.
    The TEAM has built an alliance and is so much stronger now with recent additions of huge leaders like Haugen, Florence, Goetschel, etc. along with all of their multiple Diamond organizations. This wasn’t conducted without being well-thought-out. Now it is making even more sense!! These organizations have the same complaints and their hope for solutions was a great part of reasons for merging with TEAM.
    Timing is everything. Two years ago, if this would have taken place, then these organizations, not seeing the TEAM vision, might have rebelled to the cause like so many here are doing. Bo Short probably should have waited as well.
    These leaders would have a lot to lose if their plan doesn’t go as hoped for. I trust they have a good business plan in line, and I’m extremely excited for the future!
  64. Smoke and Mirrors Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 4:32 pm

    Dear TEAM members…before making any more comments please go re-read Chapter 7 of the National Best Seller “Leading the Comsumer Rebellion”..now go read the lawsuit again.

    Smoke and mirrors..your leaders have never told you the real story and now probably never will..but if you think in this over regulated county of America you can just whip up another MLM and life will be fine on Tuesday..get a grip. They pushed their luck and lost. And it has cost everyone in this industry a whole lot more than can be measured. Wait until you try to put someone on your new TEAM and they say “MLM..after that A/Q/TEAM deal..no way”. What a shame.
  65. nothing Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 4:33 pm

    #461 Rich, I’m just curious, what organization are you with? I mean the shopping portal?
  66. Ed & Jennifer Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 4:33 pm

    THE DREAM, THE DREAM, WHAT ABOUT THE DREAM?
    Dexter says if the DREAM is big enough The Facts Don’t Count! The DREAM…How about Freedom from the Rat Race! Who will lead us to FREEDOM - Haugens, Florences, Wilsons, Woodwards!
  67. kdsj Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 4:38 pm

    8.3. Registration Guidelines:
    Nothing on “stacking”

    The company’s newly published definition of “stacking” and their “new POLICY” on “stacking” effective Sept. 1, 2007 (which is not currently and hasn’t been in place): http://adatudes.opportunityzone.com/2007/08/14/Stacking-vs-DepthBuilding.aspx

    VERSUS the attorney’s definition of stacking:
    http://www.mlmlegal.com/faq.html

    Just for those of you who were afraid you were involved in illegal stacking versus depth building. It is the second to the last question on the attorney’s link.
  68. Andy Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 4:44 pm

    I have a feeling that Quixtar is really going to feel some hard times soon when the Team is gone. How much of Quixtars business comes from the TEAM? It will be all gone soon they can’t make us buy their products even with there non competition clause.. OUCH Quixtar this is really going to hurt.. No one on the TEAM signs up for Quixtar really IT comes down to loyalty and none of the TEAM will stay with Quixtar because our loyalty lies elsewhere..
  69. Charlie Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 4:46 pm

    I joined Quixtar because of what the TEAM teaches. TEAM Approach! This posting by Quixtar has put a horrible taste in my mouth. During the last nine months of being involved with this business, I have only received negative feedback due to Quixtar’s reputation. Without our “supplier” getting in the way, and that’s all that Quixtar is, Founders of the TEAM and thousands of other IBO’s will go out and become the largest company in the world. Indeed, the Wal-Mart of the Internet. I’m standing with the TEAM. Watch out Quixtar, you just lost the greatest Organization in your long history of business. Until you get rid of your non compete clause, a modern day monopoly, I will go on building my business as ussual with Quixtar. But when my upline leader’s say, “let’s roll”, you better believe we’re leaving. Quixtar will be the first company to experience the Consumer Rebellion and the Leadership Revolution. Let us go peacefully, or you will experience what a massive group of leaders with a cause can truly accomplish. Have fun at your court hearing in California. Where lot’s of layers, cause your about to be exposed. Fired Up!
  70. Mark Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 4:47 pm

    two things:

    The meeting i attend on a weekly basis, about 85% of the time the speaker never mentions Quixtar. He calls them partner stores.

    The IBO Cost is pretty much a retail cost. I run a wholesale beverage company and a 12-pack of energy drinks for 20.40 is not “wholesale”. 12.99 would be “wholesale” as some mention.
  71. nothing Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 4:51 pm

    How could Quixtar not notice any “stacking” if it was happening for 7 years? That seems to be a large issue as does the pricing. I guess I don’t understand of how “stacking” would be bad. You don’t know everyone who’s in your business. There’s no way for a CEO of a corporation to know everyone by name. That’s silly, that’s why they have managers and team leads to take care of that process (similar to uplines and leaders). To limit your business to only the people you know would be a huge cap. It’s like saying… “I don’t know you so you can’t join my club”. I understand that’s a regulation that is present but i don’t see the purpose.
  72. Andy Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 4:52 pm

    #460 WELL WRITTEN!

    READ MY REMARKS ALONG WITH #460 AND THINK.

    #226,#315,#393
  73. pepe Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 5:42 pm

    for all of you are posting “articles”
    let the grownups do they job!!
    if you no’t agree, just step up and go.
    people like me whit dreams and gols wi are no’t interested on you’r sentimental and emotional problems.
    if you don’t have the cojones to admited, just goooo!!!!
    put if you have a dream!!
    jet up and show the plan…….********
    put if you are no’t willing to do so, go and asck orrin if he is willing to share the $$$$$ whit you…. jajajajajaja!!!!!
  74. Chris Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 5:52 pm

    Mark My Words… Aug 10th was the begining of the end for “Quixtar”. It will take less than 18 months for Federal investigations to prove that what the Justice System had approved in the 70’s is NOT what “Quixtar” is offering today. No ‘reatailing’ = no Quixtar. It’s a shame they just couldn’t figure that out on their own.

    I’m a successful “traditional” business owner today in large part to what I learned over 7 years as an IBO, and trust me, it wasn’t the SA8 that tought me what I needed to know to run a successful business. It was groups of people with integrity like those that had their IBO #’s so quickly deleted from the servers at Quixtar. Congratulate yourselves, your inability to work with the very people that have provided you with the income to fly in custom Jets for the past couple of decades, has just cost you BILLIONS.

    A true shame such a great business model and solid ‘people building’ opportunity had to come to an end this way.

    Maybe it’s time for you to go back and read the famous “How to Win Friends and Influence People” that is sitting on my desk next to me.

    Do the right thing DeVos famly… “Let the people go…”
  75. DanO322 Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 5:59 pm

    Today I received another email from Quixtar excoriating the leaders of TEAM for their illegal practices, and explaining that all of the powers-that-be, i.e., Quixtar, the IBOAI and some “North American Founders Council”, are all in agreement about the TEAM leadership’s supposedly illegal, unethical practices. This is now day five of such obnoxious treatment of TEAM IBOs, trashing all of us IBOs by association to our downlines. Quixtar has not offered even one scintilla of direction or assistance to us. They obviously don’t care. You lemmings who are so busy defending Quixtar, watch your backs. They really don’t care about you either.
  76. Brian Inferno Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 6:00 pm

    I just want to say that I love everyone! :)

    I’m associated with Team. I understand now that the way we built our teams was not exactly how Quixtar wanted it done. All I know is that it works. I also know that Team has been the fastest growing Quixtar organazation the past 7 years (look it up if you disagree). I know for years Orrin and Chris did it the proper Quixtar way and went nowhere. Finally they decided to do something about and found something that worked not only for them but for everyone. Who can blame them?

    Anyway, that wasn’t my point. I shouldn’t even have wrote that but if it was your organazation, you’d want to defend them too. My point is that the Team leaders are great people and would never try to get ahead at someone elses expense. Quixtar has been a great company to work with and have great products. I do think a lot of them are overpriced and hard to retail. So in the end, we have to great companys that are not seeing eye to eye on some things. Let them settle their differences on their own. There is no sense in bashing either side.

    Live your dreams!
  77. DanO322 Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 6:01 pm

    Could you please explain why my “comment is awaiting moderation.”
  78. Mike Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 6:03 pm

    crista, you just don’t want to retail. Your making excuses and most women are buying liquid detergent. Most gals want to buy a powder and would go back if the stuff would dissolve. SA8 does dissolve. Our liquid is the strongest on the market. If I am sexiest, at least I can change that.
  79. Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 6:10 pm

    DanO322: All comments are reviewed prior to publication.
  80. D. Rucker Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 6:32 pm

    Ah, Transparency. Openess in communication between business entity and customer. We jump on the oil companies for excessive profits under 10% but in the billions. The corporation has the right to protect its interests. The IBOs have their interests to protect also. This is sounding like a board room argument on which direction we need to go.
    It sounds as if the parties were not that far apart. If all communication has stopped to wait for the courts to rule; so sad. I am being asked to choose between two organizations that I have come to admire. With renewal so close it will be a difficult decision.
  81. JOe Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 6:33 pm

    The Team is made up of leaders all looking out for the community. They are shepherd leaders and will not lead there friends and family into a business in which they thought was not the best out there. Quixtar is a great company, but not the best it can be. My commitment is with TEAM. The reason being is that we are in the business of changing lives and helping people, with a focus on giving our communities the best opportunity to succeed. “products don’t move people, people move products, and leaders lead people..we’re in leadership development…”
    GO TEAM!….

    JOe..
    IBO- TEAM member
  82. Joel Lowther Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 6:33 pm

    Ty Tribble - response to post 18
    I’m a new IBO in TEAM, and I’ve already heard Orrin Woodward in person at a conferance at Shadow Mountain High School. Your accusation against Orrin Woodward was “Orrin blasted and badmouthed Bo every chance he got.”

    My question to you is who is Bo? Never heard of him let alone hear Orrin badmouth him. Even listening to the CD’s that came from that function or any other CD/DVD I’ve listened from him, or looking at the notes I’ve taken so far have absolutely no mention of a Bo Short.

    Are you getting Orrin Woodward confused with someone else? At least add a little credance to your remarks with some written proof. Do you even know who Orrin Woodward is? Your remarks about Orrin does very little to sway my opinion. Possibly even efectively did the opposite in of what you tried to convey.

    Joel
  83. Lee Ziegler Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 6:41 pm

    #470 mentions the fact that he runs a traditional business and $20.40 is not whosale for a case of Energy drinks and $12.99 would be.But there are a couple of things he fails to mention one being XS is unique and another and more importantly if you owned a store with employees, building costs, Electric and gas bills, workers compensation, advertising costs.Figure that in to your $12.99 and now how much did you make?And those are just a couple of the costs associated with running a traditional business.You can’t expect Alticor to handle everything, pay us send us on trips around the world and provide product to us at cost.If you are running a traditional business you already know this.The problem is most of you have never tried to build a traditional business and don’t appreciate what a incredible opportunity you have in your hands.
  84. Bruce Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 6:48 pm

    #456 - J.D.B. - Don’t belong to TEAM do you!

    How much is your monthly retail? The FTC says you should sell to 10 customers who buy over $100 at retail? Do you? Enlighten me. How do you do it? Under the old (FTC Approved) Amway rules you would not get a bonus unless you did.

    Anyway, why did you join this business (did you)? Job Optional is the reason why some joined. What’s your goal in life? Or do you just go on blogs like Mike and spend your time. Some of us have a higher purpose and want to make a difference.

    #461 Rich -
    Yea, now I’m also an upset member of a MLM also. I just learned that Quixtar/Amway has become just like the rest. Just imagine how I feel. Implode is right.

    At least before we had representation and now Alticor has succeeded in bringing us down to the level of other MLM’s. I used to be proud to say that our IBOs had a say in our futures because our co-founders thought enough of us to give us that say in 1959.

    Got to go STP
  85. Simon Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 7:21 pm

    It is very interesting reading comments from people who have no idea what is going on. Since I am one of those people, I feel compelled to add my worthless comment. First of all, I would like to commend all of those in the US and Canada that are currently building a business under the Amway name. I honestly don’t know how you are able to do it. I’m not saying Amway is bad. I just think its reputation precedes it.
    If, the guys from TEAM are smart (and I believe they are), they must have already contacted some suppliers with some awesome products. If I was a manufacturer of such a product or group of products, and someone told me they could deliver a couple hundred thousand loyal monthy buyers, I may be interested. Add to this these leaders are probably pretty decent salesmen and “la vola” a new MLM.
  86. sharen Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 7:26 pm

    simon you are so wrong go away
  87. Jeffrey Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 7:44 pm

    Mike #478: I think you meant “sexist”, not “sexiest.”
  88. Andy Says:
    August 14th, 2007 at 7:49 pm

    IBOAI.com
    The year was 1959, and a manufacturer and its separate marketing company were locked in a dispute over distribution rights that could affect the livelihood of the company’s independent Distributors.

    Faced with this crisis, two of the leading Distributors, Jay Van Andel and Rich DeVos, called a meeting with several of their top downline Distributors in Charlevoix, Mich. Out of that meeting came a new Distributor organization, the American Way Association.

    The original members of the AWA included not only Jay and Rich but also other pioneers such as Walter Bass, Fred Hansen, Joe Victor and Jere Dutt. It was decided that Jay and