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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
August 10th, 2007 @ 3:59 pm ET…
Just go, Team
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
We terminated Orrin Woodward yesterday, along with several other leaders of his field organization, named Team. We’ll post our formal statement when it’s ready. Informally, here’s the story:
We terminated Orrin Woodward for philosophical reasons. We did it for legal reasons.
But the main reason we did it is because the way Orrin Woodward ran his organization was a disgrace to every person who’s ever tried to build a Quixtar or Amway business the right way.
We have fought to clean up the reputation of our company for years. We know that one of the biggest challenges our reputation faces is misrepresentation of the Quixtar and Amway businesses to others.
And over the last several months, it became clear to us that Orrin Woodward was a poster child for a long list of bad business practices that our critics hate about our company. The other leaders we terminated – including Chris Brady, Billy Florence, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Tim Marks and Chuck Goetschel – also showed they were unwilling to reform.
Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could.
Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.
Telling people that Quixtar was merely a “supplier,” and not the company they were signing a contract with? Yup.
We’d told Woodward we had problems with the way he ran his business for years, and we worked methodically to bring those problems to resolution. We got ignored, we got lied to, and, boy, we got the runaround.
So in the end, yesterday, we tried to give him one last chance to reform.
He didn’t even want to hear his options. So we terminated him. And in return, he handed us a trumped-up, trash-talking lawsuit on his way out the door. In response, we have a temporary restraining order issued by a court that prevents him from looting the business as he seeks to take his act to a new company.
So he’s gone, and so are others. We are doing our best to repair the relationships Orrin Woodward damaged and protect the businesses of the people in his organization that Orrin Woodward betrayed. And we will continue building our business with thousands of people who know how to build it the right way.
We would say we were sorry to see Orrin Woodward go. But only if that were true.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
August 13th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Really- all of this blog- it is a waste of your time! Go pick up a good book and grow as a leader because that is where TEAM is headed: they are showing themselves to be leaders and I can’t wait to see what exciting things they have in store for their IBOs!
August 13th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
#150 Dax — If Brad Duncan was against the way that TEAM built their business, then I have a very good question for you:
HOW COME BRAD AND JULIE DUNCAN WERE AT THE FREE ENTERPRISE LEGACY HELD IN UTAH LAST OCTOBER THAT ANNOUNCED OUR MERGER WITH TEAM????? He was there, speaking good things from stage (I own the CD and play it often becuase their story is so inspiring!) about Legacy and its leaders (including the much-aligned in this blog Past IBOAI President and Retired Double Diamond Don Wilson), and equally supportive of TEAM and its leaders (and Orrin and Christ and their wives were both there)!!!!! If he was so much against how we were doing things, WHY WAS HE THERE, SUPPORTING OUR MERGER??????
Next time, try finding out the truth BEFORE you speak.
Oh, and Bridget, I know Jim and mike personally, too. They are both Platinums. mike is a Founder’s Platinum, and Jim’s sponsor. They are cross-line to me under the same Diamond. I have known them for 10 years, and know them to be, as our Diamond and Double Diamonds are, loving and caring people of integrity, strength and impeccable moral character who would sacrifice everything for the people in their care. Leaders like that I follow anywhere.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Hello,
I was in the original Team Of Destiny (TOD) before Orrin and Chris changed it to Team, because of the bad publicity. They wanted to cover up the bad publicity by choosing simply “Team.”
When you search on the ‘Net for “Team of Destiny”, you will get a lot of the bad stuff for TOD. But when you search for “Team”, ……… which team is it?
You see how they wanted to cover up their bad doing? You cannot get anything for the search term “Team” because it’s too generic. Therefore, people being solicited in TOD won’t be able to find anything bad about them.
In any case, I left Quixtar once I found out how TOD was teaching me to build the business. I built 32 levels deep leg all by myself, and I couldn’t make any money. Then, I researched Quixtar and I found out that TOD or “Team” was teaching me to build the business against Quixtar’s policy.
All of the people that I brought in the business, dropped out because they weren’t making any money too. I was bringing people and the people were being stacked vertically downward under someone else.
Then I decided to leave TOD or now called “Team.” A year after, I joined Quixtar again with another team that was teaching to build the business the Quixtar way.
When I told my new upline how “Team” was building the business, his jaw dropped. He couldn’t believe that they were still in business. He told me that if I built the business the Quixtar way with all of the people that I sponsored, I could’ve been a Diamond by then. Instead, I had to start a new Internet Marketing business and use my Quixtar account under my new upline to only purchase products for myself. No one else wanted to follow me with Quixtar anymore after scam I got them into.
It was called the “Team” scam.
I will testify against “Team” and Orrin if a court asks me to because I lost 2 years of my life involved unknowingly into a non-legal business. I lost 2 years of my life missing my newborn’s life to accomplish nothing.
Orrin has to pay for that.
Quixtar is a good business but I built it the wrong way and failed thanks to Orrin.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
hi, I am Mike 57. not mike 114 who either does not understand the stacking rule.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
I am also Mike 291, 292, 293, and now Mike 294. I do not want you to think I am mike 114.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
If everyone who is applauding the corporation on this blog truly feels that they (the corporation)really needs to clean up all the groups and create a clean name again…then let them start with the rule of requiring 10 customers and THEN let us truly see how many are following ALL the legal rules and kick those who have not out of the business.
LET’S SEE…now how many are left? I am guessing but believe it would be NOT MANY.
If TEAM has been doing illegal practices,let us see Mr.Corporation where you filed complaints thru the years at them OR did the legal complaints take place the last couple days when you could see damage to your precious pockets!
August 13th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
Dudes and dudettes …
I’m an IBO - have been for almost 7 1/2 years. Not associated with TEAM - but have listened to some of their training material before on CD etc …
Basically a non compete is a non compete. Any company has it! Notice the ‘lawsuit’ is only asking for the non compete to be released! Crazy. Every company, and any job you have - requires this to be so.
The first principle of the business is FREEDOM! If you want to leave - do so. But don’t go with a lawsuit! This split is going to do basically no good for anyone - but will cause bitterness, hurt, confusion, and people will be lost as a result.
I’m ashamed anyone would try and ignore the Amway link to our business. We buy products - and we sell them. I have been able to sell products for years. Sure - Rolls Royce don’t sell as many as their cars as Toyota do - but they still sell em.
I’m praying for the TEAM, praying for leadership at Alticor, and hoping that people understand that this business is about freedom - not the lack of it! If you want to come - come. If you want to go - go. We will all stand before God one day and be judged - let’s not pretend we are God in the interim, judging others. If Orrin and his men made mistakes - love them through it - and hope and pray they can redeem themselves through His grace.
If Quixtar responded in appropriately, then again, love them through it, and understand - we are each works in progress.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
The Team has been in the, cheating, business since 1999. Do you think the Corp has come and tried to help the leaders of team change there practices. hmm…. I have only heard that three times since then, but I am sure there have been more.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
I think Quixtar did a right thing by throwing TEAM out! Their recruiting strategy is one of the worst than BWW (where I was sucked in). I had a bad experience with the TEAM recruiting.
Here is my story:
One day, I got a mail which resembled the ordinary junk mails with a title GET A FREE ORGANIZER FOR ATTENDING A FREE SEMINAR WITH FREE DINNER AND EARN MONEY USING GOOGLE, EBAY ETC. with the logo of Google, eBay and some other online merchants. I opened it. Unfortunately, it didn’t give much details about the seminar. It’s an invite for me and a guest where I can get free dinner and an organizer. I need to confirm my reservation by calling a toll free no. which I did out of my curiosity. Apart from the free dinner and organizer, I was really interested in the seminar focusing on making money thru’ google and eBay. Seminar was scheduled in BEST WESTERN at 6.00pm with a note to come 10 minutes early. So, me and my spouse decided to learn Google cash making as we were already fed up with the money spent on BWW “Tools” and high priced Quixtar products which are hard to sell. We reached there at 5.45pm, didn’t see anybody till 6.00pm. So we went to the reception and asked whether any seminar is scheduled at 6.00Pm. Then, they told that there is one at 7.00pm in R-101 which happens every week. Then, we called the same toll free no. and asked whether the seminar is canceled. The lady on the phone told that somebody will be with us soon. Out of curiosity, we went to R-101 where the seminar is scheduled. You know what, we were shocked to see a printout pointing to TEAM seminar on the door. That rang a bell. I heard about this TEAM as a Quixtar motivational organization like BWW, Network 21, Worlwide Dream Builders etc.
I was really pissed off- What a bunch of crooks? They want to recruit for Quixtar by sending invitation mentioning about MAKING MONEY THRU’ GOOGLE EBAY ETC.
Good that Quixtar threw them out. Now I am seeing a lot of comments from TEAM members here that Quixtar crucified some “Jesus” from TEAM who intended to become a world savor. CRAP!!! What a bunch of crooks? They got what they deserved. No more crooked tears TEAM! Get a life somewhere else and screw somebody else!
August 13th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
To Answer Ri61:
Yes, Orrin acted in the best interest of all IBO’s! what kind of question is that? If you want to stay with A/Q, then cool. If you don’t and you want to pursue elsewhere, then he is paving the way for you to be able to do that.
Yes, Orrin is acting in the interest of every single IBO affiliated with Team. I must ask you, what harm did he do. Again, people can follow and people can leave, he is acting to remove restrictions.
And, yes, Orrin acted in the interest of his own business as well as everyone elses. Again, for the third time, he is fighting to remove the restrictions placed on EVERYONE. What ever happens next happens. But one thing is for sure, that no one except ourselves can make a decision to follow or stay, to quit or to act. Either way, he is just making it truly possible for everyone to be able to make their own decisions without having Big Q breathing down their neck.
So, Ri61…I ask you this. What harm did he do you by fighting for you to have this right, even at his expense with money and slander that would come at him.
Truth is…he didn’t hurt anybody. People could get hurt, but that is purely people’s own decision.
People:
Don’t misconstrue anything going on right now…we don’t know what’s going on. Nobody does except for the parties involved and it is pure speculation from there on. It is merely a waste of time to determine what’s going to happen, and who hurts who, and who benefits what, etc. because we don’t know.
All that we know is that he is trying to get restrictions lifted off of us, and whether or not we need that, he should be applauded for sticking his neck out on the line..for even people who don’t appreciate it. He may be acting for himself, but he is definatley acting for us as well. After that, nothing else has happened.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
And I want to thank who ever is blotting my messages. I did call mike 114 an _______, so they took it out. thats cool. Everybody in prison is innocent. Write TEAM? Your all a bunch of _______, all of you. good bye!
August 13th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
As far as brad duncan. Brad has done lots of stupid things, but atleast he changed. Atleast he ain’t no cheater. I am sure he met your guys and did not know your were cheaters. He probabley wanted to get to know them, so that down the road he could guide them from a life of cheating. Cause that is what TEAM does best. Team of Destiny! thats who you cheaters really are. Something for nothing-thats what you sell!
August 13th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Just take a step back: Orrin and his partners wanted to start their own MLM.
Do you expect Quixtar to roll over and just hand the IBO org to TEAM. A group that has been built over the years based on the very large range of very high quality products? Serviced and supported by Quixtar.
All these IBO’s that will go from company with a track record decades old, to one with no track record, no products? The company that supplies my products will never sell me out like that, just because my upline has decided to go into competition with them.
And if TEAM thought they could just walk in and demand a substantial distribution channel to be handed over to them, they were either naive or arrogant.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Mike: We appreciate your (and everybody’s) participation. We just want to keep it orderly.
As you were…
August 13th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
#233 Dad: What did you think about what was said at Achievers 2005?
Were you there? I was… I go every year!
I guess I am strong enough to qualify for Achievers and above Q-12, how about you?
It may be Alticor that who has made the “Enron” mistake…
Who thinks bringing back Amway solves the image problem? Sounds like Altico hired the marketing guy that introduced “New Coke” for Coca Cola… or maybe bringing back Amway is the only way to avoid the issues noted in the complaint…
If Amway is legit (and it is or was…) then by going back to the name Amway could help them hide behind the 1979 FTC Ruling. Think, use your wonderful mind to think through the issues noted in the complaint.
#234 If Quixtar warned them over and over then why did they send them to Peter Island over and over and send them lots of money over and over?
#250 Would better pricing help you sell more products and add more distributors? This move is to help the whole industry. Not just Quixtar but every MLM that starts with over priced products…
I think this is Bigger than anyone thinks it is. I will be interesting to watch it play out in court. It will be interesting to see how the FTC views this complaint.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Quixtar let us leave.
Open the iron bars, we will never come back, your old time IBO’s can
stay, we don’t care, we don’t want them. Let us go.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Check out www.businesswire.com Type “Quixtar” in the search box and hit enter. Quixtar already officially changed their name back to “Amway” back in July as far as the books go. Their is also an outside article about the lawsuit.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
I am a new IBO and PROUDLY a part of TEAM. Being a part of TEAM means being in business for myself but never BY MYSELF! I LOVE knowing that I am never alone in this. Since being a part of this “TEAM”, I have grown mentally and spiritually. I’ve never once been made to buy any material that I did not want to buy. The books I’ve read and CDs I’ve listened to have taught me how to be a leader, how to make friends, and how to deal with people. The last time that I checked, that is not something that is a bad thing for ANYONE to learn. Rather than bashing Orrin’s character, let’s look at the truth of the matter. Do any of you who are bashing him realize that the sales for these books go to charity?! I am a single Mom of two little boys; one of which has three mental disorders which he takes expensive medications for. I struggle from paycheck to paycheck to keep the utilities on and food on the table. There had been times that I had lost all hope. I had even lost my faith in God. IT IS BECAUSE OF TEAM that my hope and faith has been restored. The people affiliated with TEAM have cared more about me and my children and our well being then some of my own blood relatives. I commend Orrin and the other TEAM leaders for standing up for ALL IBOs. He only wanted things to be fair and easier for ALL IBOs to sale. If Quixtar or Alticor cared like the TEAM does about people out there like me who face these types of hardships, they would lower the prices to become more competitive making it easier for those of us out there moving their products; that’s ALL IBOs, not just those affiliated with TEAM. I like the products but as a single Mom, do feel that the prices are very high and I am struggling to maintain this business because of the pricing of the products. THANK YOU ORRIN and all the other members who have resigned TEAM from Quixtar. Its people like you that really care and people like you that make a difference. Then again, that is our motto right?! Have fun, make money, and MAKE A DIFFERENCE! I’ll follow my TEAM (my family) anywhere. Afterall,
“T”ogether “E”veryone “A”chieves “M”ore!!! GO TEAM!!!!!!!
August 13th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
most of us IBO’s don’t have all the facts. We are assuming way too much with all of these blogs being written.
The main fact of the matter is that Alticor’s statement above will hurt them more than it hurts The Team.
Another thought, many big diamonds and emeralds are joining the Team. Just a thought to ponder.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
lets say alticore was right. I see lots of slandering of orrin and the team from Quixtar but show me where the Team leaders are slandering quixtar. The truth is your not gonna find the leaders of team posting immature remarks about Quixtar. Why? I have found that if someone knows that they are wrong they will do all they can to tear the other person down to make themselves look better (choleric) or hard headed. So why aren’t team leaders doing this? Because they know in time people will see the truth. If orrins depth building was so bad than ask yourself why team was the fastes growing organization out there? Think about it.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
#306. No that is not what they want. They want the ability to take there whole group now and try to steal other lines of sponsorship now! If you have six mos of no compete, the other lines of sponsorship will get the whole story. The ethical folks from TEAM will get the whole story. Allow lines of sponsorship time to train there folks properly and educate why the problem existed. The guys getting the boot, want to make more money in tools and bring there exsisting groups over to some shell of a business, and tarnish amway/quixtar’s name. They are not doing it because they are holy. They have been cheaters and saw the writing on the wall.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
#308. Don’t even mention the World Wide Dreambuilders with Team. They do not decieve anyone.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
guys, go back and read #57, 291, 296!!! what don’t you get folks! Team-if you never did this or were taught and didn’t know this. Then fine. Anybody active in team, knew the info was going on-you are a crook and a something for nothing person-handing out fantisy. This is not a get rich quick. You can build a solid never looking back organiztion in 12-18 months. go back and read, this actually happened. This is wrong-no matter how you shake the stick. It is willfull rebellion, lieing, stealing, cheating… Give me a Break
August 13th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
#309 Ann Crystal — If that is what happened to you, and the TEAM sent the mailing to you, someone is doing something wrong, and WILL be disciplined by their LOS. I am very sorry this happened, IF it was someone on TEAM responsible for it.
Have you considered that perhaps the meeting you wanted to originally attend was changed, and you were not informed? I am leaning strongly in that direction as a possible scenario in your situation. Please consider it.
When I mentioned mike in my previous post, it was mike #114 to whom I was referring. As a Founder’s Platinum who qualifies every year, I think he does understand some things. Tell me, vitrolic Mike 322 (among others), what are you??? And, if you are not personally associated with Brad Duncan, how can you have the unmitigated gall to speak for him, or worse, to know his thoughts? Please, let him and those closest to him speak for him! As a Triple Diamond, I am sure he’s more than capable.
When I became an IBO almost 10 years ago, I did not sign any non-compete clause, because THERE WAS NONE. They slipped that in under our noses without telling us about 3 years ago. This company was founded on the principles of morality, free enterprise and choices. That clause takes away my choices. Talk about your immoral and unethical business practices . . .
August 13th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
My husband and I have been Amway Distributors for 21 years and Quixtar IBO’s for 8 years and have watched a very disturbing trend for the past 15 years, and that is the shifting of bonuses by squeesing bonuses from the front line IBO’s and lower pins, and then padding and adding bonuses to the larger pins. This has been done in two ways.
1. PV has been lowered time and again, forcing bonuses upward.
2. The Incentive program has added new bonuses at the very top levels every year.
The result of this is to “buy off” the biggest pins to go along with Alticore’s policy of high prices and to look the other way as the company robs the smaller pins.
We would like to see a reversal of this trend so that new IBO’s and hardworking pins at the lower levels have enough money to stay alive till they do reach higher levels.
So we are happy for anyone who is rattling the cages of Alticore, Amway and Quixtar to provide a more equitable deal for us. We hope this dissention continues until changes are made.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
How many of you have had Randy Haugen in to speak at your conferences?? How many of you on other teams have been helped by their CD’s? Randy & Valerie Haugen are part of these 15 incredible leaders who were terminated.
How many of you have had Billy Florence in to speak? Billy & Peggy Florence-that’s like baseball and apple pie to America. Have their CD’s helped build your business even though you’re on a different team? They are part of the 15 who have been terminated.
You need to really think about this. These men and women have proven their hearts and their integrity to many of you over the years. They are fighting for you.
It’s easy to make Orrin the scapegoat here. But this is alot bigger than Orrin.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Hey # 320. Your point almost makes sense! If the leaders knew this was going down, which they did, and never told there groups. If they were in the wrong. You think they would stand up and say that now. go back and read my 57-291-296. Those things actually did happen.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Wow when i first read this blog post I thought it must be some child or disgruntled team IBO that was posing as Alticor, having gotten the link from another site. It really upsets me to see such hostility and immaturity in this response. There will be no renewal or future association with this company for me. Hopefully Orrin and Chris can find a new supply company.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Let me tell you people something,think about this for a minute before you bad mouth Alticor.Number one they have provided all of us with the opportunity to be in business for ourselves.They dont sell behind our backs which contrary to what some idiots think they easily could do and make far more money but they have never sold out on us.Go to shaklees website you can buy anything you want without being a distributor oh and by the way their prices are way higher than Amway or Nutrilite but some how they still manage. Go to the Fuller Brush website same deal you can purchase without being a distributor.Wake up people Rich and Jay are men of integrity and so are doug and steve.The tool scams need to end so we can move forward.You never saw Alticor try to profit from tools and seminars the convention costs $15 not $500. Those people will fail because they want to take not give.
August 13th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
once again… show of hands… who sells retail?
August 13th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
There’s a lot of myths and falsehoods being spread here, by both side. I’ve just addressed a few on my site in the post Cutting through the PR and BS, including the following -
1. MYTH: Stacking is illegal
2. MYTH: Stacking is against Quixtar Rules
3. MYTH: Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady resigned before they had their contracts terminated
4. MYTH: Primarily internal consumption makes Quixtar an illegal pyramid
5. MYTH: The products can’t be retailed
The Truth About Amway and Quixtar
August 13th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
I am in complete shock that a company such as Alticor (Quixtar)(Amway) would ever make a statement(official or otherwise) that would reflect the negativity that was released. Totally embarrssing, unprofessional, and unbecoming for a company of this magnitude!! Your father’s would have never been so careless. So much for the bolstering of a good name and reputation. Understand one THING, the reputation for this business has already and will continue to fall because of this, as well as, when it goes back to being AMWAY. I feel sorry for the Slap in the Face the Team took and for all IBO’s who are currently active outside of Team..
August 13th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
Rico 104 and like minded individuals(IBOs) I hope you understand that the fasteset growing group for all of Quixtar’s existence is being swept aside. Do you think there is any help to our businesses when you slash our overall market share and business volume, in favor of having big profits for the owners and not a good product, price, and reputation for all IBOs?
August 13th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
I might be able to retail if I lived somewhere with insane pricing that makes these items the most affordable!!
August 13th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
The libelous allegations by Quixtar, and lemming-like repetition of them by pro-Qixtar bloggers, that TEAM uses illegal depth-building methods are easily answered by the fact that Quixtar itself provided me with the “SA-4400 Quixtar Independent Business Owner Compensation Plan”, bearing Quixtar’s own copyright notice, “(c) 2007 Quixtar Inc.”, clearly describing TEAM’s method, which all TEAM IBOs use.
Further, TEAM’s lawsuit describes the structure of the business up through Alticor’s founding families, and it is from that level that it constitutes a pyramid, since the founding families totally control the pricing. The lawsuit explains that the Alticor profit-margins built-in to the pricing points of the products, put the IBOs at a competitive disadvantage, such that virtually all profit and growth for IBOs result from new sign-ups who self-consume, with the vast majority of the profits going to the founding due to the Jay-factor.
The lawsuit as a whole does not claim that the illegal, pyramid-producing, profit disparity was always present, but results from the intense market pressure caused by the dramatically increased price breaks to consumers at the brick/mortar retail level over the past several years. And please, folks, we aren’t just talking about Walmart prices anymore. Sam Walton is just the guy that started the revolution. And we aren’t talking about cheap, no-name products, either. The whole world isn’t shopping at Costco and Walmart just for a good deal on obviously cheap merchandise. Please wake up.
It is no answer to the price problem to say that our eco-friendly soap, and high-line make-up actually have a market. Good for you, if you are successfully marketing those products. You go ahead and stick with Hudson’s. My family likes to shop at Costco, Kroger, Kohl’s, and, yes, even Walmart, and many others. All of those stores have high-quality, name-brand products. None of my friends own Rolls Royces, or Ferraris, or Bentleys. Most of them own Chevys, Toyotas, Fords, and a couple of Volvos, so they all shop at Costco, etc., and know a good deal when they see one. Quixtar is not a good deal for their families, and they know it.
As for the non-compete clause, my legal opinion is that it is too broad, and therefore it is probably unenforceable as written. It has no geographical limitation. Also, since it is Quixtar’s contract, and it is not presented to the IBO until Quixtar mails the Biz Reference Guide after sign-up, and it is not specifically referenced in Quixtar’s own IBO Registration form, and it is so draconian in its scope, I am confident that it is simply not part of contract and is unenforceable for that reason as well. There is only a reference to a “six-month inactivity period” before a former IBO can re-apply in a different LOS within Quixtar. I appreciate, however, the efforts of Orrin Woodward, et al., to secure a legal ruling in federal court, so that none of us are jumped from behind by Quixtar and forced to incur thousands of dollars in legal expenses, if we decide to leave. That’s the purpose of a class action lawsuit.
Go, TEAM, go!!!
August 13th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
stacking is illegal the way team was doing it.
August 13th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
“Those with integrity expect to be believed, if they aren’t, they let time prove them right!”
August 13th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
#328. you probabley have a tough time doing 100 pv. You haven’t made a decision. This is not what your going to do for a living. You must be a member of TEAM. You haven’t had to
over come objections, attitudes, bad experiences of good people, because they experienced this opportunity with TEAM. Countless hours, time managed, waisted plans; with otherwise good folks that would have or had potential to built the business. I would ventour it would be negative. If you knew how to build the business properly and were active. Boy, I am going somewhere else… Your niave boy……. good luck
August 13th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Retailing is a requirement. Thats Why World wide teaches it. Required by FTC
August 13th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
#331 ibofightback — Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Billy Florence, Chuck Goestchel and the rest of the Heroic Band of Eight RESIGNED from their positions on IBOAI Board PRIOR to the meeting with Quixtar’s lawyers. Not the DeVos and Vanandel sons, but their head-hunting corporate lawyers. Period. That’s historic FACT. They did it at the close of the emergency Board meeting on August 9th.
They were NOT terminated by Quixtar proir to their RESIGNATIONS from the IBOAI Board. It was only AFTER that, during the PRIVATE meeting the termination papers were presented as an accomplished fact.
If you’re going to publish the facts, particularly on a public site like yours, please at least first get them straight and right. There is enough misinformation going on around here.
August 13th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Mike #327 (among others), you still haven’t answered my question.
What’s your pin level??
Here’s mine — I was a frustrated 2500 (who wore what she often didn’t own) before Legacy joined with TEAM. Now, I’m a happy 2500 (who is qualifying consistently again at higher levels, much closer to what I wear) whose group is growing like never before, all thanks to a system the corporation said was legal and viable for the last 8 years.
August 13th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
World wide headed that initiative and blue the doors off it. That’s why 75 dollars or more get free shipping now. part of the comp plan. Thanks I appreciate the word on retail.
August 13th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
Read this post on BusinessWire:
08/10/2007 - 02:56 PM
Amway Sister Company, Quixtar Inc., Sued by Distributor Group Represented by
Shughart, Thomson & Kilroy
August 13th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
Before commenting on compensation look at the new QBI for just posted. It is a massive increase for ALL levels, not just bigger pins. As a matter of fact they have to delay getting compensation while their downline do not. Perhaps this program which was worked out with IBOAI participation forced Team’s hand now as they loose many of their excuses to drag their downline into another MLM.
Our system has been pushing for more competetive products to retail but at the same time pointing out many that are competetive today. We tested the $75 order/free frt for customers and it created a huge uplift in retail sails. Just because some individuals choose not to sell to retail customers does not equate into all. Many of us do.
August 13th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
PLease read todays posting on “The Real Quixtar Blog”, Monday, August 13, 2007
Category: Opportunity, Transformation
“Meanwhile, the (Quixtar)Sales team is contacting leaders at the Platinum level or above within Team and other affected organizations, reaching out to them, inviting them to continue their Quixtar businesses, and seeking assurances they will build ethical businesses within Quixtar’s rules. We’re glad to see that the vast majority of those contacted see the value in the Quixtar opportunity and the safeguards provided by the Rules of Conduct to preserve and protect the hard work of many IBOs”.
Question to all of you: Why does Quixtar sales contact these leaders within TEAM now? Is it because Quixtar has a different support to offer than in the past? Or because Quixtar is trying to undermine TEAM’s wish to build an ethical and people orientated business?
I was contacted and heard bad mouthing stories about my upline and the TEAM.
TEAM doesn’t contact anybody through the back door. They use the front door with facts and not gossip! We don’t sell! We build a foundation of trust that others can build their future on.
August 13th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
The people you have terminated were legends in the business , it’s never good to bite the hand that fed you. Team will succeed without quixtar because it’s true that Quixtar is nothing more than a supplier. Please don’t bash people that will never bash you.
August 13th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
I do, So does all of Worldwide Dream Builders. Which ran a test program for Quixtar. free shiping for new Ibos (within 90 days) as long as the order is over 75$ they came to us with this iniative and we nailed it. The company, quixtar is giving all new ibo (for 90 days) and customers (wholesale and retail) free shipping over 75$. Tell me, the are money hungry; why would they do this for us. money they already make, but give it up so that the customer gets it free. Wow, here is an idea, maybe they want us to make more money. 10 million dollar value. to new ibo’s it is huge, they can legitimize their business and afford in the 1st days to plug into any ethical training system.
I am, but then that is WW for ya. I am proud of retail. it helps the newest person help themselves. If anyone from TEAM ever heard of a cost comparison, they might be excited. No wonder TEAM is whining about products being to expensive. You don’t even know your competition, the full product line, why you versus walmart. come on guys, what the hell are you doing over there. I am thankful for WWdream builders. You guys probabley don’t even know about core.
August 13th, 2007 at 7:49 pm
Oh, buy the way. All organizations get to play in that deal. Thank you Jim Payne!
August 13th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
#331. mister myth man. Drive depth is ok, not stacking. If you have an ibo who gives you a names list and 10 of those folks get in, all are required to be in width to that new ibo. not stocked on top. He gets the credit for exposure of the plan properly to those individuals. Retail/wholesale/big business (the prospect decides)and you will get 50% or more say yes. If you merchandise, product demos. You can show it for him, but he should be there with you (if possible). train/show/let him do it for himself. You continue with that until you find someone who really wants to build. You start over and do it again. You through the ibo on top (plugged into a system and has seen you do everything) out the door as you build him a tap root. That is not stacking, that is building depth. establishing leaders along the way, well trained, able to stand on there own, plugged into a real training system, with help.
If you stack (like team does) those folks recieve ibo’s that they never new existed (something for nothing) and never referred those folks. I wake up and there are 15 people in my organization. How do I know my sponsor (i don’t) or i will shoot you an email with his contact info. You can meet him at the meeting. after four months you can build your own personal width. No wonder folks think it is a pyramid (there right-if they see team do it) I can’t even get mad! GIVE ME A BREAK! A loop hope, if I recall the term correctly.
August 13th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
You all better look at www.businesswire.com…They already changed the name back to amway in July
August 13th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
The choice is simply for us…..We believe in Team and will go wherever it lead us. Thank you Orrin and the other courageous men who are looking out for us. God Bless You !!!!!
August 13th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
If a divorce is coming, let’s not make every aspect of it public.
This blog is public and probably skewing the public’s perception of Quixtar, TEAM, Alticor, Great Eight, Amway, Legacy, whoever. I’m all for expressing one’s opinion. However,
It might be best if we all just contacted the people we’re loyal to and let them debate the issue in private.
Too many egos get in the way to defend our heroes, show people how smart we are, show them how loyal we are, and defend ourselves.
We’re like the couple arguing in the street while all of the neighbors are laughing at both of us. I’m not trying to silence honest communication, but maybe this isn’t the time and place for it.
If a couple needs to argue, it’s best not to do it in front of the children. It only hurts them. We’re hurting the young IBOs.
I’m enough of a realist to know that egos being what they are, both sides will keep going trying to have the last word. Maybe one side, will take the high road and and trust their leaders to work it out.
August 13th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Cathy #340 and mike #348 - did you bother reading the full post before you made your comments?
Cathy, my source for the resignation information is TEAM CEO Robert Dickie’s blog. It also refers to resigning from Quixtar, not from the IBOAI board. It is not 100% clear when that happened.
Mike, re “stacking” I made no comment on whether it’s “right or wrong” - and IMO that really depends how you do it - but purely on whether it was illegal and/or against the rules. It is clearly neither.
August 13th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
It is not a mark against someone if they are ignorant, for at one time or
another we are all guilty of it, however, it is really stupid if they choose
to remain that way ~ unknown
August 13th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
To Mike and Bridgett, you obviously have not been to any Team functions, seminars, or opens. Please stop the slander. We highly respect WW, and the rest of the organizations.
After reading most of the posts here I’ve come to one conclusion, everyone here wants Team out of the Quixtar business, INCLUDING Alticor. The only thing happening here is both businesses are getting a bad name. Time will tell the truth. Renewals are coming up. Quixtar has pushed me to that one. To be honest Alticore is the only one that knows of another MLM. I didn’t. Thanks for the tip Alticor.
To my fellow Team-mates stop defending Orrin and Team. Let the others express themselves how they want and then they’ll be done. You don’t see Orrin or Chris on here do you? They lead by example.
August 13th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
# 351- very well said.
August 13th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
Ya, argue until you find out what is really going on. If the other orgs new what TEAM was really doing… we have a high population of folks learning how to build this business in wisconsin (FROM TEAM) Maybe if folks do read this, they will find out the crazy crap going on in your organization. I am proud to be in World Wide Dream Builder, I know there are organizations outside of us who are doing things right and well. Most of BWW does things properly also. There are others. Maybe this is good to see other IBOs not agreeing. I have names and facts. I have personal organizations that have dealt with these issue’s. Gone to the meetings. A personal friend of one my legs was sponsored into TEAM. I am not making this crap up. This is real and it hurts everyone. They have been working with team for years and paying them for years; because they had to. They had to show they were making an effort on there part. It was time for the leadership to do there part. They cut bait and ran. and want Alticore to change there policies. What about the protection of our business. They got away with this stuff for years. The no compete is awesome.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:11 pm
Team leadership wasn’t going to change for no-one and that’s what Alticore had to deal with for years. They new the crap going on… They have been leant for all organizations. It’s time we all picked up the boot strapp’s and cared about our responsibility back to the two families that gave us this opportunity. They have been taking heat across the board for all of our short cummings. Retail has always been one of those areas. They have been patient. Great products. If you need cheaper-your an employee-not an business person. We are the cheapeist place on earth. with more value, more exclusive’s, and more money in the pot (comp plan) than any other opportunity on earth. I know that those families are just waiting for the chance to make it better. They will. It’s us-their waiting on. Do it more, Do it consistantly, do it right! Find out what core is-instead of these pirate cds. Hell world wide dream builder has never held out on any organizations. Recently though organizations have not shared with us. Ron Puryear freely given you all the keys to the business. Successfully and long term growth. He is a man of character. If you want it, you can get it.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
after thinking about what # 351 said I say this…
People we have all expressed for 350+ blogs how we feel and it comes down to there are those who support the corporations position and those who do not.
At this point, how about all who believe there is a God in heaven step away from this blog and take a little while and pray for the leaders across this ENTIRE business and for the corporation (concerning name change with the corp and concerning who to allign with concerning the leaders). For many of those leaders must make decisions that will affect hundreds of thousands of lives. Let us take a little time and instead of going back and forth here which truly helps none of us except give plenty of fodder for those who are not involved. And instead let us direct and hearts to ask God for supernatural wisdom to these people who will be making life changing decsions for all of us.
The best to all of you in your endeavors– it is time for me to go to God and blog with Him.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
#351. You have a point. But I am glad I was a part this conversation.
Note: Cathy, it’s good to see your positive affirmations! I am a few levels above ya. But your not happy if you do what team teaches. You’ve had to do an awful lot-on your own. Get the core CD, sponsor wide & learn to do/teach merchandising. It’s width and depth.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
Dad 283:
You just proved the point, again! You stated that “…but I have done enough research to know their motives are pure and for the IBO.”
Does pure mean; perfect, flawless, absolute?
Bad choice of words on my side, as when communicating over the interenet it does not permit the type of interaction you need to get your POV across… Orrin and Chris never said they were perfect, no one is… and I stated that hey neither are the leaders of A/Q/A..
Don, let me ask you this. What happens 12 years from now when YOU have a million people in YOUR organization? Then, for whatever reason you want to “split?” Should the corporation that aided you in becomming a multi millionaire then bow to your demands?
Great question… I do not think Orrin wanted this split to happen either, as I would not rather have it happen either… This is bigger than Orrin… 8 of the board members are out… WOW… Change needs to happen to take A/Q/A mainstream, where more people can be helped… It can not go to that level in it’s current state, so the board who represents the ENTIRE community were in complete agreement that something needs to happen…
Nobody likes change, but it is necessary for advancement and improvement… I think we all fight it every day as this world is changing… I think A/Q/A started out as an amazinng company and is still a good one, but they have lost touch with the folks in the living rooms, just like Rich and Jay thought Nutrilite did to them, so what did they do… they started Amway, then bought Nutrilite… Lets make no mistake this is not a ‘Bo Short’ inncident here, this is HUGE, not another prodical son story… Time will tell how it all plays out… in the mean time, lets say that neither you nor I know the entire truth and that we are both ultimately hoping and working for a better future for ourselves and others we care about…
Be blessed,
Don
August 13th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
#347 Mike,
Guess what! Free shipping. Quixtar did that for us a couple of years ago - we were the test market then. My guess is every time Leaders in a LOS question Alticor, Alticor throws them a bone. I guess they figure it will keep us quiet for a while, besides it worked before so why not try it again.
Do you realize that over 8 members of board that were elected by qualified Platinums and above all resigned. That board was elected to protect the best interest of IBOs. My quess is that every one of them were told the same thing over the last 7 years.
#300 Freedom Fighter,
Do you know what IBO means? Independent Business Owner affiliated with Quixtar. Read the compendium. Quixtar is just the organization providing the Content and Commerce side of your business; if you don’t believe me call the Business Rules Department on the 800 number during regular business hours. You are just an affiliate, the same as a website can have an affiliation with Amazon.com In our case we pay to be affiliated but it costs nothing to be an Amazon affiliate.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
#351 - Right on. This won’t be settled here. We all believe this industry will get us our freedom. We all want the same things. Lets just let the leaders work it out. In the end we all get what we want. We are not helping our future in MLM by blasting eachother here. Your prospects and ours will read all this “junk” after we show them the plan one day and then we have to face all “those” objections. It is tiring to read all this becuase we are all better than this. Hopefully you all agree. Thanks again #351. Good night and lets all go STP. Gosh all we work at we are destroying right here and now.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
Dad 286… She is obviously metaphorically speaking… people today are hungry for a true selfless leader, as you stated A/Q/A just offers an opty, nothing more, nothing less, you can take it or leave it, but we all know it takes leaders and a system to build any kind of income from this A/Q/A opty… so which is more important… your comments leave me to believe that you think the corporation and the opty is more important, I think they are both essential and right now equally important…
August 13th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
whoopty do #349. Do I care about the name AMWAY? It was the 1st company every to recieve the united nations environment award! Hello! They were worried about the environment even before al gore created the internet:) Sorry, I had to throw that one in…. Only 2 companies have ever recieved it. Amway (Rich & Jay) received the Haratio Alger award, the most coveted business award in the US (you can’t buy this one-rags to riches). Huge… Rich & Jay before Quixtar… Amway days, were told by the government to change three things. They set out to do what was right and make the neccesary changes. They made mistakes but changed them. Then the government said “you can’t keep those products exclusive to your ibo’s. You have to sell in stores. They said no. These are ours and for our distributors. They went to court against the government and won. The supreme court said AMWAY is not a pyramid and you can keep those products exclusive.” They could have lost it all. You TEAM guys don’t know anything about that. AMWAY this-AMWAY that. find out the real story. Find the supreme court ruling on that. They said they would use amway as the standard of MLM or network marketing business’s. There is more at stake then you know. The press wants to make them look bad, because they give the average joe a chance. Joe can tell the job/corp/ system to take a flying leap. The media hates them (they don’t give them $, competitors hate them (because they take market share. AMWAY (The american way) don’t need the system or the media. But we got to do things the right way. So what if you make mistakes, change…. TEAM leadership doesn’t care about that, never intendid to change, and had 8 years of paid time to change. It was time. We have a great story now, a great history, and I am excited for those who have guts to do what is right and press forward.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
Orrin didn’t invent team approach he only perfected it. Orrin and Chris were process engineers Orrin having numerous patents and a competitive benchmarking award.
Building depth as a team is the smartest way to get the new person at the bottom results. Amway was stacking long before Orrin came along.
Look at any other successful MLM today and they all are building in a binary manner.
10 people get in the business …isn’t it easier for 10 working together to get number 11 then spreading them all out seperately.
Especially when the first ten people the new person calls are all family and friends and know eachother. You think they should all compete against eachother, that’s foolishness.
Illegal business technique no.. just analyzing a failed method and improving it. Nobody has grown like the team thats why longtime diamonds were approaching Orrin and asking him to join. Amway was a sucked orange and Quixtar is now too
Orrin will be the Sam Walton of the internet.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
I have seen several posts which make good points on both sides which is what this blog is about. However, I have seen numerous posts by people that with blind rhetoric, in particular, this mike # whatever from WorldWideDreamBuilders. I have a couple of questions for you, #1: Where you taught integrity and honesty from Bill Britt? #2: It looks like you are doing nothing more than “shotgunning” accusations of which you have absolutely NO idea about. Perhaps it would be best if you were to find out about something before you speak and try to villify everyone and everything around you. All of us and in particular, you would turn out to be a lot happier. I try not to say anything bad about anyone and if I have I apologize, to you, or to anyone else.
“If you can’t say something good, then say nothing at all”
I will say one thing about this situation though, I have met most of the DeVos’ and the VanAndels, as well as most of the leaders in this business. Some of them numerous times and I will tell you that when I met every one of them I had the highest regard for them and their integrity. Without lessening the respect that I felt for each and every one of them, my regard for Don Wilson has no boundaries and in my opinion NO ONE has more honor and integrity than he does: NO ONE!!!
August 13th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2007/08/alticor_fires_15_quixtar_distr.html
This is an interesting article that appeared in the Grand Rapids Press regarding the events that are being discussed on this blog.
August 13th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
This issue is very intriging. Why is Quixtar so mad in their blog response? Because they are losing many great leaders. Why is TEAM leaving? They have been negotiating for a while and It is to the benefit of the workers (IBO’s) All in all TEAM’s business model is about inmproving one’s self and during the process helping other’s achieve the same. The product is only the product. They have also never decieved about quixtar. It is the hub for puchases. Think PEOPLE!!
August 13th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
Wow, I wonder what the Team IBO’s feel about their ’sacrifices” now? Nights gone from home, babysitters, money, contacts used, reputations on the line, and kids that are 2 or 4 yrs older than the last time you really enjoyed them. Now you are looking at starting it all over again - reaching for a dream that is highly unlikely. Spending time in other peoples living rooms not your own. Practicing verbiage to try and follow the letter of the law (truth) without being too truthful. Soften, twist, and spin it enough to make sure that your new target has a hard time putting 2 and 2 together!
4 yrs ago the writing was on the wall that ‘Quixtar’ was just a supplier and that Team would be willing to change if there was benefit in it. This is nothing new from them. It truly is hidden as long as possible the this is A/Q. I found out when I signed the forms but even then you are told it is different, that they are just the website, etc. It finally hits you a few meetings in what it is really all about.
Wonder where you would be if the money put into system, pv points, babysitters, and mileage were put into your retirement fund. Living a lie (fake it till you make it), thinking everyone else must be doing it better because you can’t be the only one with these results. How has the attitude you picked up from the team affected your livelihood. Do you resent it? Have disdain for regular working folks? Feel superior? How many of you ended up with debt from chasing a dream in a system (any mlm not just A/Q) that is designed for only a few to succeed. You do realize that you are all in competition? Eventually there are hard choices to make about what is good for me or for my team mate.
For the few that actually succeed…at what price? Who pays it? The 100’s or 1000’s that went into debt grasping at the vapors of truth you sent their way? How many must suffer for a few to make it?
I know many of you will say that TEAM improved your relationships and that it made you a better person. Do you think if you had put that same energy into yourself from what your church or grandmother tried to teach you that you would have improved too? Are you spreading your core values without an eye on the profit to be made? How many of you have hidden the true cost of this business system from your spouse? Is your J.O.B. subsidizing your system? Or is this business actually profitable. Profitable when you factor in your time? (I know, I know – you’re building a pipeline!) Have you traded a day job for a night job?
If this business has not worked for you - you are led to believe that you are lazy, a wimp, not dedicated and basically a loser. Your friends dump you as soon as you go off system and you are left believing their lies about yourself. You believe that everyone else must have different results than you and do not understand that the wordsmiths are spinning and twisting the truth. Fake it till you make it….Right up until the time they drop out of system they will tell you that they are making it (vaguely). They don’t want to hurt their team, upline, or look like they don’t have integrity so they keep the charade running. Shame keeps people quiet! The majority don’t make it and I don’t believe that those hundred of thousands are all lazy or don’t have integrity. Do you?
If you want to read inspiring books join a book club or engage in a bible study. Want to feel more rewarded in your life? Is your job not fulfilling enough? Find an interest that you have and volunteer. Surely there is a need you can fill. Each person has intrinsic value and doesn’t need to be part of a ’system’ to have that validated. I know many people will not even consider these thoughts because it is negative and therefore can’t be of any value. If I was one voice that might be true but look at the 1000’s and not just from Q/A or Team and see if there aren’t as least a few valid points.
August 14th, 2007 at 12:07 am
I find it ironic that only a couple people (who have posted alot) speak highly of retailing product. Everyone keeps posting with their passion and loyalty…let’s look at the facts. Fact: Several leaders of the Team were terminated, not the whole team. All other Team members still have a Quixtar business (the third grade schoolyard response from Alticor withstanding). Fact: Depth building is not and never was illegal the way The Team built their business (reference SA-4400 from Quixtar. Fact: The vast majority of the Quixtar product line is overpriced (someone will pick “the” product that is competitive and argue). Fact: people join the business model they feel comfortable promoting (just because they didn’t choose your organization doesn’t make them a crook). Fact: This whole mess is because a corporation created a board to represent the IBO and then repeatedly failed to listen (placing the boards integrity in question). Fact: If Quixtar wanted to keep me they would not have blasted the men that I know personally in a public forum on the internet. They would not have called my home and refused to tell me what would happen to me if I chose to stay and then start trying to destroy the reputation of one of the few men I can honestly say I admire. If you don’t know Chris Brady and Orrin Woodward you don’t have the right to comment on their intentions! I don’t have to speculate I have personally witnessed their Christian faith and firmly believe their accusation. Maybe everyone needs to drop their loyalty a little and consider…what if they’re right???
August 14th, 2007 at 12:09 am
If what Quixtar alledges is true, that the building practices were illegal, and have allowed it to continue for several years, then they have failed the IBO’s. They should be held responsible and have THEIR business terminated for failing to correct actions in THEIR business. After all, they keep reminding us this is THEIR business. THEY tell us how to build it. THEY tell us what tools we need to build our - I’m sorry - THEIR business. THEY got people started, some 30 years ago, with a good opportunity and good, competitive products. However, over time, when these men and women have built their livelihood on this business, THEY start tightening the vice. THEY start raising prices. If you have invested 10, 15, or 20 years in a business, built relationships with people that are family to you, are you going to walk away because of these people? Or are you, for the seek of the new IBO on your team that want’s to bring their wife home, going to stick it out, do the best you can to help them achieve their dream? If you up and quit, that is being a coward. The warrior stays and fights. These leaders that walked away have fought for each of us. It finally got to a point, though, that they saw there was no bargaining with the corporation. Therefore, they had no other choice.
In our free enterprise economy, if a companies prices are to high, and they don’t come down, they will go out of business. I use K-Mart as a good example. However, in this company, there is nothing you can do. My friends that are now part of Quixtar, I can never contact them about another opportunity, if Quixtar gets their way. Without the non-compete clause, Quixtar will truly be held to a system of checks and balances. Currently, there is none. Those of you that think their pricing is okay now, stay with Amway, and 5 years from now when you pay $50 for a gallon bottle of SA8 see what you say then. If you’re a Sapphire, or Emerald, what are you going to tell your people? Orrin and Chris, and all the leadership, never said buy over priced products. That is what DOT1 STEP is for. That line is competitive.
However, the final chapter will be when the DeVos’ and Van Andels change it back to Amway. When they do, they will ruin many businesses. For those of you who are loyal to the corporation - like you probably are your job - have fun. When you call me, and I tell you I want nothing to do with Amway, you can call the other 6 billion - but many of them - at least a Million - will be part of the TEAM.
Guys, hire Gallup and take a poll throughout America, of what people on the street think of Amway. But more importantly, think about those that are supporting you, feeding you, think about it. Here’s an idea - you should have people who can program that, on the order form where you place an order, have a link to an independant site - hire a law firm (not one that is your buddies) that has one question - do you want the name to change to Amway?
IBO’s, since that won’t happen, here’s an idea I will do. I will make a petition list, with numbers for each name, and petition 500 people. They will put their name on the numbered sheet, and I will give them a simple form, with a number, and they can print their name on it as well, and will ask them (1 - Have you ever had any contact with Amway? (2 -What is your overall impression of Amway - Positive or Negative? (3 - If someone contacted you and wanted to discuss Amway, would you want to listen? (4 - Would you want to be a part of Amway? I will then take these forms, scan and e-mail, as well as mail the originals, to the corporation. If the results are as I expect overwhelmingly negative, I will show Quixtar how their name change will damage my business. Because I am young, I could forsee a long business with Quixtar. Changing it will cost me long term economic damages. If enough IBO’s do this, it should be pretty overwhelming. You might also want to send a copy to the IBOAI board.
While I am not in Orrin and Chris’ organization direct, I am a better person because of their system. Build them man who buiilds the company.
August 14th, 2007 at 12:15 am
I resign from Quixtar. Where do I sign on to the new store. Can we take the XS with us? Except those small can’s. I like those big Monster can’s at the gas station! Hope the court’s get this over quick! Team will be the new leader with that low pricing Orrin’s talking about. Glad I didn’t buy a ton of tool’s or product. Real glad I didn’t sign up anyone to you all get your new thing going. This is some great entertainment to say the least!Oh yea…Can’t wait for the new book and the Oprah thing….It’s like it’s all been planned. Chris and Orrin are smart.
August 14th, 2007 at 12:32 am
Sorry, one last thought. If Quixtar is about us buying products and selling it to others, how does all the partner stores factor in? How am I supposed to buy something from Circuit City then turn around and retail it? Seems to me like it’s intended for self consumption.
I also wonder what is going to happen with all the partner stores as this hits the media. I have a feeling there will be quite a few making a quick departure.
August 14th, 2007 at 12:32 am
Our family’s support system transferred over to the TEAM system awhile back. Now reading all of this just reinforces my overall feelings. While I still like some of the products, I am so disenchanted with everything to do with the business. Who’s wrong and right, I really don’t care at all about any of it anymore.
August 14th, 2007 at 12:33 am
It’s clear to me where the truth lies in this matter. Just think about it:
The IBO’s that were terminated were IBO’s that were on the IBOA International Board. This is the group that serves to represent the best intrests of ALL IBO’s. Look at the list:
Don Wilson- Vice Chairman of Executive Committee, Member of Board of Directors, Member of Legal & Ethics Commmittee.
Randy Haugen- Member of Board of Directors and Business Operations Committee.
Chuck Goetschel- Member of Board of Directors and Legal and Ethics Committee.
Chris Brady- Member of Board of Directors and Legal and Ethics Committee.
Orin Woodward- Member of Board of Directors and Awards and Recognition Committee.
Billy Florence- 2 time Chairman of the IBOA Executive Committee and Member of the Governance & Oversight Committee.
I could point out a few things here but I’ll just focus on 2:
The Legal and Ethics Committee of the IBOA International Board is made up of 6 members. 3 of them, or 50% of them had their IBO affiliations terminated. Why?
Billy Florence has been elected Chairman of the IBOA International Board twice because of his character, integrity and commitment to do what’s right for ALL IBO’S. He was 1 of only 2 members on the Governance & Oversight Committee, which reviews IBOA Board actions and makes sure that it remains aligned with the principles of integrity, responsibility, and corporate governance. There were only 2 members of the Governance & Oversight Committee and again 50% of them were terminated. Why?
If the man who has served as chairman of the board that represents IBO interests for 2 terms and makes up 50% of the Governance & Oversight Committee has had his IBO affiliation terminated, there is a legitamate reason for all IBO’s to be concerned.
If you read the case that was filed against Alticor, the truth will be clear to you too.
August 14th, 2007 at 12:39 am
All I can say is either loyal or you are not! Something I learned from the best team in the USA - the U.S. Marine Corps. They also taught me that change comes from within, not by dragging things into the public view. It means this: if you are not happy with the way things are run, you have two choices, 1) stay and help make things better or 2) leave and let others do the work of making things better.
That being said, the overwhelming majority that have served whether career or short term are very loyal to other Marines and the Corps.
There are least two sides to what is going on between Team and the corporation. I believe we should take a wait and see attitude - not bad mouth either side. Most of all we should all pray that somehow the differences are settled by negotiation and not a lawsuit. The lawsuit has the great potential to hurt both sides and those not on Team or affiliated with it. It is a well known fact that the individuals that benefit the most from lawsuits are the lawyers.
August 14th, 2007 at 12:39 am
There are a number of things that are upsetting about this. What I find most frustrating about all of this is for 10 years I operated under the impression that we were different from everyone else. What was that difference? WE controlled the compensation plan. Not the corporation. I spread that information and used it to build security and trust in the IBO’s I signed up.
Guess what? Alticor/Amway just changed it and we have no control over it. They are free to change it at will with no oversight from the IBOAI. Say what you’d like in defense or applause of either side. You no longer have control of your business plan. We’ve once again become employees of another business, and I find myself with another boss.
I will not be owned! Goodbye Amway/Alticor/Quixtar.
FYI I suggest those speaking out of ignorance and emotion research the facts thoroughly before opening their mouths again. There’s alot of lies and deceit being spread around on the internet. Research carefully and re-evaluate your future.
August 14th, 2007 at 1:02 am
To all who asked and are interested:
No, I, nor anyone in my family, nor my husband, nor any of my friends are, or ever have been employees of Alticor/Amway/Quixtar.
I’ve been busy today, and away from this blog. Just caught up on 124 posts (#228-#351). Took me over an hour.
Nothing more can be added.
Liking the attitude of #278-Does it Matter.
Ciao.
August 14th, 2007 at 1:02 am
Does it make any kind of business sense to ask 1/7th of your total business to leave? Who ever posted this is obviously not in an influential or informed position.
August 14th, 2007 at 1:07 am
I left the Florence organization some 3 years ago after coming to the conclusion that it was impossible to sell the products at the listed prices. At the time, I resented Billy Florence and my other upline for propogating what seemed to be a near-certain loss for 99% of business owners, when they knew all new people were being set up for failure. I respect Billy and the others for stepping up, showing some backbone, and getting out, even if it means financial loss for them. I haven’t checked back with my direct upline, an Emerald couple in the organization, but I can only hope they followed suit.
August 14th, 2007 at 1:24 am
#226 IBO- I guess you don’t really get it… Don Wilson, Billy Florence Randy Haugen they are all “”"old Diamonds” they did at one point build a business and then they sat and reveled in it for years and years…which coincidentally is one on the perks for building it right the first time. However after so many years, things in all areas of life will start to atrophy. So instead of doing the right things to stay on top the lure of “EASY, Quick money on the tool system” is why they would move. They could make a quick few million on their existing team instead of going back to pursueing the dreams and helping others to achieve like they did the first time. I’m not saying I necessarilty blame them, this business is hard…but so worth it because all that you will do in your life will be hard yet nothing and I mean NOTHING will reward you this much. I wonder if asomething happens to them tomorrow, if Orrin is going to continue paying checks to their childrens children like Awmay has been for years? Most of those pins have not requalified at those levels for YEARS. I must say someone commented before on the fact that if Dexter aka Internet would have got with reality before and either shared more of the tool revenue or made them more price effective to diamonds much of this and the decrease in their business could have been avoided. regardless of that though, the bottom line is loyalty, Amway has paid them for years and years and if it was that bad they should have left before.
August 14th, 2007 at 1:30 am
I think its funny that Bridgett has never responded to being called out as a Corp. hack (must have been true…thought so) AND no one has stepped forward to say what, how much and how often they retail even though its been asked several times. For products being SOOOO retailable no one is saying what they actually do in retail.
…looking forward to moving on with Team.
August 14th, 2007 at 1:48 am
One thing that I find interesting is that only one person even mentioned the name of Fred Harteis. Any one who has even the slightest knowledge with Mr. Harteis should know that his name is synonymous with ingegrity of the highest level. The fact that the Harteis organization is affiliated with Team should make all readers take any and all criticism of Team with a very large grain of salt.
August 14th, 2007 at 1:48 am
Thank you Alticor for taking this drastic step. A step that will hurt in the immediate future but prove beneficial in the long run. Thank you for taking a cut now to protect this business opportunity for the rest of us.
While Orin and his leaders may have had some valid points, and good intentions regarding pricing, etc, their business building techniques have always been know to those of us “on the street” as very misleading.
I’ve personally talked with a TEAM Platinum who told me, upon learning I was an IBO, that she “had people in her business team that used to be in Quixtar too.” What?! Either she was incredibly confused or intentionally dishonest with her people.
I’ve also had IBO’s on my team who weren’t actively building the business show up at a TEAM open meeting where they were presented with the paperwork necessary to help them change their line of sponsorship.
We’ve been complaining about these practices for years but I understand how slowly a ship this big makes decisions such as these.
Please continue to clean house and force the leadership of our organizations to operate in accordance with Rich and Jay’s founding principles. Maybe another Directly Speaking CD is in order? Maybe you could even make it a $.99 mp3 download and not an $8.50 cd!
August 14th, 2007 at 1:56 am
We object and find your actions against Orin woodward, Chris Brady and above all Randy and Valeri Haugen, unjust,unfair amd extremly illegal, the so called leaders of Quixtar should be ashamed of themselves
Keith and Kathie Miller
August 14th, 2007 at 1:56 am
OUCH – AMWAY HEADED FOR COURT IN UK!
16 July 2007 - The Grand Rapids Press (Amway’s home town) reported that the United Kingdom – U.K (Britain) that the Department of Trade and Industry will take Amway - Alticor to court at the end of this year over the sales of Motivational Tools to include Training “Rallies”, Books and CD’s. http://www.mlmwatchdog.com/mlm-amway.html
August 14th, 2007 at 1:59 am
BTW - Fred Harteis is NOT terminated. Notice while he was on the lawsuit against Quixtar - He has not been terminated. The scumbags Woodward and Brady put his name on the lawsuit without even consulting with him.
CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?!?!?!
What sort of ‘TEAM’ player would get so angry that they got terminated, that they’d then put out a lawsuit, and name others as a plaintiff without EVEN THEIR KNOWLEDGE, let alone permission. This is the lowest form of degradation I can ever think of!
First TEAM wanted to leave quitely. Then when they figured out they couldn’t steal Quixtars customers, they go with a lawsuit instead. Sounds like they had a hidden agenda right from the start!
Hello - YES it’s all about the community. But guess who owns that Community … Quixtar does!
Good luck in the lawsuit TEAM … NOT!! You’re up against a corporation that will squash you. But yeah - go for it - spend lots of money, try and impress your ‘TEAM’ with your ‘courage’ and only to discover it will get you nowhere.
August 14th, 2007 at 2:04 am
emanuel #84, 86
dude, you need a chill pill this is a business not a fight todeath unless your of course a terrorist
August 14th, 2007 at 2:12 am
censorship by the moderator regarding numerous other suits against Alticor?
August 14th, 2007 at 2:13 am
is Alticor/Amway/Quixtar beginning to feel a crack in their armor?
August 14th, 2007 at 2:15 am
Have a nice evening mr. moderator
August 14th, 2007 at 2:24 am
PREDICTION:
JIM PAYNE AND OTHERS RESIGN ON AUGUST 24 WHEN VERY DAMAGING EVIDENCE IS DISCLOSED TO ALTICOR JUST PRIOR TO THE HEARING…
ANY BETS?
August 14th, 2007 at 5:06 am
will not follow the products,will follow our future,quixtar/amway they show me how to sell(am tired,R.Kiyosaki say you are employe),TEAM SHOW ME HOW TO BE A BETTER PERSON,HUSBAND,SON,BROTHER ETC,HOW TO BE A REAL BUSINESS MAN,LEADER IS NOW THE MOST PAYED CARRER NOT TO BE A SELLER(MARY KAY,HERBALIFE,SHAKLE ETC) ORRIN TE SEGUIREMOS POR HABERNOS AYUDADO A SER MEJORES SERES HUMANOS LOS CD’S LOS LIBROS Y TODOS LOS EVENTOS ME SIGUEN DESARROLLANDO COMO PERSONA NO EL SA8 NI NUTRILITE LO SIENTO QUIXTAR PERO EL FUTURO DE MI FAMILIA Y DE MI GENTE ESTA EN TEAM NO EN TUS PRODUCTOS,,,,,,HISPANOS UNIDOS.
August 14th, 2007 at 6:48 am
everyone needs to “GET A GRIP”. I am so tired of hearing of all the TEAM people defending the woodwards being people of integrity. people of integrity DO NOT crossline with other huge diamond organizations that they have no vested interest in and steal their organizations for tool and function profits. Wake up please. DEXTER showed the way, invested the resources, fought the battles for you at the corporation, for 40 years, only to have diamonds leave him for what? Ego and greed! You cannot see the forest for the trees. Step back and