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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
August 10th, 2007 @ 3:59 pm ET…
Just go, Team
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
We terminated Orrin Woodward yesterday, along with several other leaders of his field organization, named Team. We’ll post our formal statement when it’s ready. Informally, here’s the story:
We terminated Orrin Woodward for philosophical reasons. We did it for legal reasons.
But the main reason we did it is because the way Orrin Woodward ran his organization was a disgrace to every person who’s ever tried to build a Quixtar or Amway business the right way.
We have fought to clean up the reputation of our company for years. We know that one of the biggest challenges our reputation faces is misrepresentation of the Quixtar and Amway businesses to others.
And over the last several months, it became clear to us that Orrin Woodward was a poster child for a long list of bad business practices that our critics hate about our company. The other leaders we terminated – including Chris Brady, Billy Florence, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Tim Marks and Chuck Goetschel – also showed they were unwilling to reform.
Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could.
Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.
Telling people that Quixtar was merely a “supplier,” and not the company they were signing a contract with? Yup.
We’d told Woodward we had problems with the way he ran his business for years, and we worked methodically to bring those problems to resolution. We got ignored, we got lied to, and, boy, we got the runaround.
So in the end, yesterday, we tried to give him one last chance to reform.
He didn’t even want to hear his options. So we terminated him. And in return, he handed us a trumped-up, trash-talking lawsuit on his way out the door. In response, we have a temporary restraining order issued by a court that prevents him from looting the business as he seeks to take his act to a new company.
So he’s gone, and so are others. We are doing our best to repair the relationships Orrin Woodward damaged and protect the businesses of the people in his organization that Orrin Woodward betrayed. And we will continue building our business with thousands of people who know how to build it the right way.
We would say we were sorry to see Orrin Woodward go. But only if that were true.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
August 12th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
I joined Quixtar a year ago. I’ve had 7 new IBO’s in the last 60 days, but no more. I’m not bringing people I care about into this acidic environment. Sales requires positive motivation. Some of these post sound so angry and bitter, it’s not for me.
Cancel my ditto!
August 12th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
THIS IS THE GREATEST BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY ON THE PLANET. WE HAVE ALL SEEN MANY CHANGES. BUT AS A BUSINESS OWNERS HOW CAN WE TAKE PRIDE IN WHAT WE HAVE OUR HANDS ON IF WE MISLEAD OTHER PEOPLE. WE CAN TELL PROSPECTS THAT WE WILL HELP THEM BUILD THIER BUSINESS. HOWEVER, IF THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO WORK FOR THEMSELVES WAY WOULD I WANT TO PUT ALL MY EFFORT HELPING THEM. I WOULD RATHER THEY DID NOT GET IN. BECUASE WHEN THEY DON’T MAKE ANY MONEY, THEY TELL EVERYONE IT DON’T WORK. WE ALL KNOW HOW NEWS LIKE THAT SPREADS. I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE 1000 PEOPLE IN MY GROUP. BUT IF I DID NOT PUT THEM IN, AND SOMEONE ELSE DONE ALL THE WORK PUTTING THEM IN FOR ME, WHO’S BUSNIESS IS IT. HOW COULD I BE PROUD OF WHAT I HAD WHEN I DID NOT DO THE WORK. HOW MUCH RESPECT WOULD MY UP-LINE OR MORE IMPORTANTLY MY DOWN-LINE HAVE FOR ME. MY WORD WOULD MEAN NOTHING. THAT BUSINESS DOES NOT BELONG TO ME. WE HAVE TO TRAIN OUR GROUPS HOW TO MOVE PRODUCTS, HOW TO CONTACT OTHERS, TO EARN IT THE OLDFASHTION WAY. WORK FOR IT. WE NEVER RESPECT ANYTHING THAT CAME TO EASY. I AM SURE WE ALL KNOW THAT. WHEN YOU TELL SOMEONE THAT YOU CAN GET IN HOLD YOUR SPOT AND WE WILL KEEP PUTTING PEOPLE UNDER YOU AND YOU WONT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING AND YOU WILL MAKE MONEY, THAT’S MISLEADING. I KNOW, BECAUSE IT HAPPENED TO ME. I HAD A IBO RECRUITRD OUT OF MY GROUP. HE WAS PROMISED THAT IF HE GOT IN THAT THEY WOULD BUILD HIS GROUP FOR HIM, THEN ONCE HE GOT 100 DEEP HE WOULD MAKE 3500 PER MONTH. HE BELIEVED IT. WHEN I TRIED TO EXPLAIN TO HIM THAT IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE, DO THE MATH, HE DID NOT BELIEVE ME.I TOLD HIM THAT EVEN IF EVERYBODY DID 400 PV IT CAN’T HAPPEN. HE SAID THAT ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS 50 PV AND SIT HOME, THAT’S WHAT HE WAS TOLD. HE KNEW IT TO BE TRUE BECAUSE HE SEEN THE CHECKS. SO, WITH IN A YEAR THEY ARE NOT MAKING ANY MONEY WHAT ARE GOING TO SAY. CALL ME SHOLLOW.
August 12th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
I find it hard to believe there is any credibility in Quixtar corporate statements that they tried to work with Woodword and Brady and then make derogatory statements over the signature of corporate comment. Obviously this has been a planned campaign to oust people who have tried to drag Quixtar/Amway into the 21st century and to work for the betterment of the opportunity for each IBO, not just the corporation and the founding families. Is it any wonder that Amway, and now Quixtar, has gained such a negative reputation in the minds of most of the populace North America.
August 12th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
My last post on this.
If it takes 2 years to settle this dispute, by the end of it there will be hundreds of links on the web about it. Anyone who does a web search on our business will have a negative impression of Quixtar. (The Band of Eight won’t escape unscathed either.)
And then at the end of it, we become burdened a name change to Amway that already has such a negative connotation in our culture. Trying to recruit downline will be like trying to recruit investors for Enron.
Alticor says positive changes are coming in the next couple of years. We’ll need more than positive changes. We’ll need a miracle.
Bye All
August 12th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
My goodness…
Don’t you people have anything better to do? The Ritz Carlton costs more than the Motel Six! A BMW costs more than a Chevy! NOBODY forces you to buy either.
The movement of products (hotel rooms, cars, soap, energy drinks or motivational materials) creates profit possibilities. So what!!!!
The idea is to conduct business legally and in the case of many IBO’s, morally.
This isn’t hard to figure out, just use some common sense…
ALL of these, so called leaders, became MEGA WEALTHY as the result of what they learned from this Amway, Alticor, Quixtar business model. But, just like so many throughout history… it’s never enough! So, they go ahead and “eat the apple…” Start my own gig and STEAL the business away from the one that “brought me to the dance.”
I’m sorry Orrin, but you are NOT Moses. These are not YOUR PEOPLE. These are Independent Business Owners.
But, even if you were Moses, the next stop is the desert…
August 12th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
“Just Go, TEAM” ?
That statement is very disrespectful to a lot of very good people whom your corporation has made countless millions of dollars on, but thankfully we’ve learned that we have the capacity to understand and forgive. It’s nice to be able to choose your attitude. The Team has a GREAT system that has for years managed to be the best leadership development machine in the industry - regardless of the ridiculously high prices on the website. You can’t go to a Team Major event without being overwhelmed by the sheer number of new Golds and Platinums every four months. All the greatest motivational, inspirational talks in the world don’t replace the value of pure logic - proof. The new Gold and Platinum recognition lines at St. Louis earlier this year were tremendous. “New Platinums, walk and wave. Make it quick!” I didn’t count, but would venture to guess they were literally in the thousands. You can’t poke a stick at that kind of growth, and be foolish enough to believe the critics that say TEAM people aren’t making money. Don’t be silly. There is simply no basis whatsoever to such statements.
The Q prices are the most obvious issue. I know of many TEAM-produced Silvers (several of whom never personally sponsored more than one person) who don’t even bother purchasing monthly even at the 25% rebate level. Yet, they’ll buy from Amazon.com or Overstock.com, etc… Mainstream America is looking to get a deal, that is just the way it is and always will be - particularly in creating communities online.
Big HUGS and heartfelt THANK YOU to the real LEADERS who are making strides to help put the system in place where we can take it mainstream with some fresh ideas with 2007 and beyond in mind. I’ll be there with you!
Amway, fresh, new idea? I’ve trembled at the thought of having an “AMWAY IBO” card in my wallet. Gag me with a stick! Quixtar, thanks for helping us get started, but it is time for us to part ways, whether we have to wait six months or whether you let us go courteously. You’ve been good, but good often gets in the way of GREAT!
Fired up, brotha’s and sista’s!! Blessed and Highly favored we are!!!
Thank you for putting this forum together, and not editing our posts helping us portray our true feelings. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and it is nice to see others’ too. GOD bless everyone whether you understand or not!
August 12th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
The TEAM training system has help me and my family get our lives on track far more than any money made through quixtar. We will follow the leaders of the TEAM on our jouney to millions of people.
August 12th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Guys, this whole thing is about the BOard being reduced to a figure head. Quixtar wants Control, over the tools and building methods, they want a piece of the training systems, a tariff if you will, which is why they started this “accredited” tools system B.S. in the first place., Quixtar wants total control, and has no real care for the “IBO” input, they are just another corporation now, This Revolution will Show Independent Business owners everywhere they can rise up and join a Leadership revolution. I stand with these courageous men who could have just stayed pat and raked in a few more millions before this model eventually imploded, however they drew a line in the sand and have revolted against an entintey no longer associated with true freedom. The revolution has begun, The Great 8 have set us free, the rest of the world just doesn’t know it yet.
August 12th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
New Platinum (#133),
You should have said “you’re weak”. Talk about weak, poor grammar. What is your point, except to call me the name “weak”?
August 12th, 2007 at 9:58 pm
Way to go Alticor! I am proud to be an IBO and equally proud the name is changing back to AMWAY.
August 12th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
The blog Alticore posted is a sure sign of the deterioration of the great company that was once started by two of the greatest men in our lifetime. It has left “Compassionate Capitalism” discusssed by Richard DeVos in his books and on his tapes released some years back. You “allowed” the Team to do their thing and to use their wisdom to create something real big where men and women could bring money into the hands of Godly people. You never listened when some of us complained about the Team when we heard of their successful way of bringing people who knew each other and could help each other into one Team before starting another Team. Back then we did not understand that Team was trying hard to help people be successful under very difficult situations like the name “Amway” and the high end priced products. We know now that Team leaders are true culture warriors. Alticore/Amway/Quixtar don’t try to pretend that you are cultural warriors because you have dropped out of being concerned about the culture we are in.
We the “over the years” people in your business deserve consideration and respect for our part in making you a big and successful corporation against all odds. We are not sponsored by Team people but have grown to love what they stand for. Alticore corporate executives: please bring the Team leaders back. Be fair with them and be willing to join the culture for success and for developing outstanding men and women to lead America. You need the Team and the Team needs you but the entire structure has to be brought down and rebuilt with reconcialiation, love and respect. YOU ALTICORE, AND YOU TEAM, CAN DO IT TOGETHER BECAUSE TOGETHER EVERYONE ACHIEVES MORE! Alticore: Don’t throw your kids out like they are nothing but an old cigarette butt. They were sent to you from a loving God and that is not the way His kids are to be treated.
August 12th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
rocket (#168),
You still haven’t said anything. Get specific.
August 12th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
#195 Question for you. I use to buy Tide all the time before getting involved in the business. I never saw Tide go for $30. What type of Tide was it and what K-Mart in New York. I would really like to look it up so that I can compare prices for myself.
August 12th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
I won’t get all sappy and long winded, it’s not worth it. This says it all…
“In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and
hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then
it costs nothing to be a patriot.” — Mark Twain
August 12th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
#198 Bruce
I had the same thoughts about Bridgette. I was wondering who she was to and if she didn’t work for the coportation. Glad you asked.
August 12th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
WOW!!
These TEAM loyalists are amazing. Why all the fuss? If Orrin wants to start his own MLM, good for him. This is America, land of the free. He is free to chase his dream to the level he sees fit.
Only one small problem; it’s called ethics. Thankfully, our laws aren’t completely corrupt… yet.
All Orrin had to do was leave the corporation quietly, with the same number of people that he joined with. That was the agreement that he agreed to. He could even keep the MILLIONS and MILLIONS of $$$$$ that he made with this so called; high priced, antiquated Amway business that he, all of a sudden, no longer agrees with.
“Pride cometh before the fall.” Capitalism has a dark side. It’s called pride and greed. I recommend everyone one the TEAM read Rich DeVos’s book “Compassionate Capitalism.”
Otherwise, good luck in the desert with your self proclaimed, Moses!
August 12th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
An underlying theme is that IBOs have been building communities and the corporation has not been. People follow people over the long term, who exhibited integrity, which fosters trust and a willingness to follow with confidence. These leader’s past and present actions are speaking boldly though the hearts of people, whose lives they have enhanced.
Acknowledged leaders of the IBOAI board have conducted themselves honorably vs Alticor’s tone exhibited in their blog.
Incidentally, these honorable men resigned first, but the corporation’s hireling attorneys a few hours later served these resigned IBOs with terminations so the corporation could twist the truth of how it went down.
It looks like this boils down to a fight over, who is in control. The field has rebelled as the colonies rebelled against King George. Of course there were some loyalists. But General George Washington foresaked all his assets to take a chance to free this country from enslavement from regulation without representation. I will follow men, who exhibit the character that the founder of our country had.
Good King Rich in Orlando takes profits disguised as COGS (cost of goods sold)to support the Amway Arena on the backs of a compliant and subservient field of Amway sales drones trained by the almighty and benevolent Amway.
As for me give me Free Enterprise away from another corporation run by the greedy. They have gone the way of the saying: Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts ABSOLUTELY!
August 12th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
At first, I thought the original posting on this blog was a little strong…
But, the more I read from these TEAM bloggers. The more sense it makes. JUST GO…
I do hope that top Amway leadership reaches out to those poor souls that are being led astray. It’s pretty obvious that the TEAM will not obey the court order, that would be too ethical. They are, after all, true patriots…
or was that true parrots?
August 12th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
We need to pull together and pray! All of Us leaders in TEAM know that Orrin is a Man of integrity. This is slander,and not true! They are just trying to steal Orrin’s community that He’s worked so hard to build! They can save a lot of money not paying all those they deleted!
“Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could”
How could Orrin (AND THE REST OF US)hide the fact that we use to sign our IBO’s up with Quixtar when in order to sign them up they had to sign Quixtar papers?
I could go on and on with countering this slander, but I’ll let the lawyers do it! I don’t want to waste my time. The fact stands, WE ARE GOING TO A MILLION AND BEYOUND W/O Quixtar!
Methods are many, principals are few, methods always change, principles never do!! I’ll let these people say it in their words…
Leadership is the capacity to translate vision into reality.
—Warren G. Bennis
Orrin and Chris are leaders! They are #1 @ building community’s online for 8 yrs running! This year will be no different!
Action without study is fatal. Study without action is futile. —Mary Beard
Time will either promote you or expose you. —Jeff Olson
The question we should be asking ourselves is: “Would I want to be sponsored by me?” —Jeff Olson
Excellence is doing a common thing in an uncommon way. —Booker T. Washington
People first, then money, then things. —Suze Orman
Example is not the main thing in influencing others—it’s the only thing. —Albert Schweitzer
From time to time we all need to be reminded, that if we just stay the course, we will reach our goals.
—Michael S. Clouse
Say only what you can prove. Be ready to prove everything you say. —Jerry Vass
Money always flows to the leader… If you want more money, simply become more of a leader.”
—Robert T. Kiosaki
He who refuses to embrace a unique opportunity loses the prize as surely as if he tried and failed.
—William James
Life is divided into three terms—that which was, which is, and which will be. Let us learn from the past to profit by the present and from the present to live better for the future. —William Wordsworth
Never complain about what you permit.—Mike Murdock
Growth is the process of responding positively to change. —Paul Harvey
You can observe a lot just by watching. —Yogi Berra (OR IN THIS CASE….READING!!)
Failure is only the opportunity to begin again more intelligently. —Henry Ford
Business is a lot like a game of tennis. Those who don’t serve well, end up losing. —Doc Anklam
They’ll tell you. “Quit now, you’ll never make it.” If you disregard that advice, you’ll be halfway there.
—David Zucker
August 12th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Brian #206
Come on “brotha”, get off the kool-aid!
How can you say “…your corporation has made countless millions of dollars” as if profit were some sort of nasty word? The very leaders that you hold in such high regard have made MULTIPLE MILLIONS from the same profit stream. Don’t be so narrow minded.
Remember Brian, 99% loyal is 100% disloyal. If Orrin and Chris have the capacity to leave the one that made them millionaires, how loyal do you really feel they will be to you?
Do what they’ve been preaching… THINK about it!!
August 12th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
I have never met a group of men and women who are religious, ethical, GREAT business leaders, care about others and will fight so WE can succeed. They have already ALL succeeded, they could just walk away and say, Well, I guess we are done, we have enough money, good by everyone. But they didn’t. They want us to succeed also right with them. They have taught us to be better people, helped marriages succeed, they have not just taught us how to make money, they have referred us to books that have everything to do with building our character and understanding other people, etc… If you are on the TEAM you know what I am talking about, if you are not on the TEAM, you are missing out. I am not the ONLY ONE who has said this but here it goes: “ORRIN FOR PRESIDENT”!
August 12th, 2007 at 11:11 pm
Eight board members don’t bring a class action lawsuit against the business they have been representing for years if they do not have concrete evidence to win the case. I hope they have enough proof to send the owners to prison.
August 12th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
#206 & #207 ~ Amen!
August 12th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
I can personaly say I know hundreds of people that have had there lives changed because of the Team and the leaders it has. It is my view that the Team produces leaders, leaders we all can look up to in business and in our personal lives. In truth that is what I look for in any business, who are the leaders, what are there values. The products are just that, products. It is obvious that Quixtar and Amway have done some great things over the years and been a part of helping allot of people achieve success. However in the end, the organizations that represent quixtar are the foundation that that success is built from, not the products.
Furthermore something that occured to me that may help in forming a fair opinion of this situation. I know that there is a specific form that every new IBO receives when they sign up for Quixtar, it is called the SA-4400. It is no secret you can find it posted all over the internet. It shows how IBO “legs” are built and how the money is made with those legs. Now my point with mentioning that is that Quixtar approved and produces a SA-4400 specific for the TEAM and there approach on building “legs”
So with that being said, I am puzzled why Quixtar would approve the approach that the TEAM uses and has used for several years, and now it is wrong and violates rules.
It just appears to me that they are attempting to hurt the reputation of the TEAM and its leaders as well as there obvious results, by being dishonest and unproffessional.
Of coarse that is my opionion, and I realize that in the heat of the moment sometimes things are said and done that are not thought thru and can consist of incomplete information and truth. I hope that this whole situation settles down and problems are addressed and resolved without hurting everyone involved, mainly the members of the TEAM that obviously had a dream to build a business thru Quixtar while becoming better leaders thru the TEAM.
thank you
August 12th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
#211 says it the best out of anyone…I agree 1000%
August 12th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
Just some observations that need to be thought through:
I have been a Distributor/IBO since the early 90’s, Amway and Quixtar. We were given a choice when Quixtar was launched. Why are we not being given a choice now? (or in 2 years?) Most of my downline signed up in Quixtar NOT Amway. All of my growth has come after Quixtar launched.
Why not get to the bottom of this by showing all of us the McKinsey Report?
Why not get to the bottom of this by showing all of us the “Learning Lab” results? (Side note: some of my fellow IBO’s WERE a part of that program, so it DOES exist)
Ask your self, “Why would Don Wilson, a RETIRED Double Diamond and former Board President, sign a complaint and throw away a life long residual income that took over 30 years to build if there is no validity to it?”
“Why would EDC Billy Forence, a former Board President, haul off and allign with TEAM then sign a complaint and throw away a business he and Peggy have built since 1974 if there was no validity to it?” They have money, why not sit out for 2 years then start their own MLM, if that is their motive?
Why wouldn’t any of these guys just sit out for 2 years and start their own MLM “IF” that was their motive?
Why file a complaint and not just quit, lay out for 2 years and start a new MLM?
Ask the “motive” questions and look at the easy, greedy alternatives and I think you’ll see the bigger picture. This is not about starting a new MLM, it looks to me like it is “righting an old wrong”…
August 12th, 2007 at 11:22 pm
#186 Matt Says: “If I had been in the business a few years and was making $5K per month and the rules were changed to say that I must not do any other MLM for 6 months or I will be sued by the corporation, what do you think I would do???? Come on, do you honestly think anyone would give that up???”
Matt, this is business. You can’t build an organization of people with one company and then take them all to start your own company. A non-compete clause is a standard business practice.
Use the Corp. to build a group of people and then think you can just take them to your new competitive company without a waiting period?
Think of all the proprietary information the Diamonds (particularly IBOAI members), Emeralds, Platinums, and even regular IBOs have been privy to.
This lawsuit has NOTHING to do with that. As I said in my #165 comment, if they really wanted to start their motivational/leadership business peacefully, they could have. All their “followers” would have patiently waited six months for their holy heroes.
Their intention with the suit is to create bad press for the Corp.
August 12th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
The no-compete and no-solicitation clause is relatively new (3 years old) in the Distributor Contract that Quixtar slipped in without notice. Only IBOs less than three years old have actually signed such a contract. For those of us in longer, we have been on Quixtar’s Auto-renewal program. I seriously doubt that Orrin or the other 14 leaders who resigned could be legally bound to such a clause that they did not sign in their original contracts, simply based on Auto-renewal. They are fighting this fight for you and me, for ALL IBO’s regardless of affiliation. As a result, no matter what the legal outcome, Quixtar must make some positive changes that benefit ALL IBO’s or they are going to go the way of the dinsoaur in North America.
Recently I found lots of info on youtube regarding Amway/Quixtar/Alticor and you would be surprised at how much advertising Amway is producing in the Japanese and foreign markets vs the US. Obviously, they have discovered that Americans want more than they are willing to give and are now focusing their efforts on the disadvantaged people in other countries. Only the IBOAI leaders who resigned to take up the fight for ALL IBO’s in America truly care about our futures! Almost everything on youtube in English about AMWAY/QUIXTAR is negative and makes you ashamed to tell your relatives that you are even associated with them! Because of ALL the negative hype against AMWAY/Quixtar, you have to show the plan before you ever mention who the brick and mortar company behind it is, otherwise, you would never get your foot in the door! I tried being open and honest from the start before showing the plan and I was repeatedly laughed at as they walked away, saying “AWWAY, SCAMWAY…NOWAY”! To be honest, if someone had told me it was AMWAY before they showed me the plan, I would have walked away laughing too! I had joined AMWAY back in 1980 and after 12 months of not being able to sell to my own family and friends because of the high prices, I got out and used the inventory myself. It was the XS Energy Drinks that made me come back and only XS! If XS Gear decides to break away from Quixtar, I will be going where they go, as it is the only product worth selling that is competive and makes me proud to represent it. XS GEAR take notice! You are the power behind our success in the US, not Quixtar. TEAM Growth has been the fastest in the US because we focus on XS Energy Drinks and not Quixtar’s other product lines! If Quixtar changes their name back to AMWAY, it could seriously hurt your future growth! It was TEAM who made us loyal customers of XS with their DOT1/STEP program, which is totally optional and not required. TEAM leaders have always told us that their system for success was optional. Never have they forced us to buy anything!
What MLM? TEAM has mentioned no plans for a new MLM! That is Quixtar/Alticor propoganda to discredit our leaders! However, should a new MLM become necessary as a result of being terminated by Quixtar, I will follow where TEAM leads me!
Note: I am a C personality and study everything thoroughly before I make a decision or comment. I am not a blind person following the blind!
August 12th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
has anyone wandered why some of the people named as a plaintiffs, but has mannaged to “miss the cut”? Read the list of plaintiffs then those who made the cut. JUST FOR FUN!!!!!!!!
August 12th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
#198 Bruce says: “You should read the lawsuit like I have”
I did read the suit. See my comment #173.
: )
I was alerted to it by my husband, who has covered the legal arena for over a decade as a newspaper reporter. In that time, he’s read thousands of court files and written about hundreds of court cases, both civil and criminal.
Here are his comments:
I suspect the first draft of the suit was written in crayon, so juvenile and ridiculous was much contained therein. There were times when I read a passage a few times, just to let the words (easy-to-dismiss words like “impossible” that have no business being littered throughout something like a lawsuit) sink in.
It was jarring to see such senseless chatter amid the standard references to (supposed) legal precedents.
Whatever seeds of truth may be sprinkled within the document, they are buried beneath mounds of gross generalities, whiny evasions of personal responsibility and inherent contradictions.
No, the plaintiffs insist, we’re not looking to put Quixtar out of business. But, hey, it’s an illegal pyramid. Huh? Why wouldn’t you want to put an illegal entity out of business?
If any half-witted reporter writes about this subject, they’re going to be able to read between the lines and see the suit for what it is.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:01 am
“ORRIN FOR PRESIDENT”!
This is the best thing I’ve read so far.I second the motion, all in favor say “I”
August 13th, 2007 at 12:04 am
I find it funny that people are excited about changing the name back to Amway. These people have sniffed a little too much SA8.
I am curious to see how many of the positive ‘pro Q’ posts on this blog are from paid Q employees.
Anybody willing to throw out a number?
August 13th, 2007 at 12:10 am
Andy #226
Motive?? Read blog #216…
Amway/Alticor/Quixtar??? What difference does it make? When you prospect people, it’s YOU that they are buying into. The NAME of the corporation that is backing your Free Enterprise opportunity is NOT what’s important. It’s the history, the integrity, the ethics and the future stability that is important.
If you’re not strong enough to get around the NAME objection, then you better get involved with a company that will “stack” people under you, until you’re strong enough to build your own business
Now, stop whinning and go build YOUR future. Amway ain’t going anywhere. Someday you’ll be thankful that the founders had the forsight to bankroll BILLIONS, so they can afford to fight for your right to… fight!!
In a short while, the TEAM will be another footnote in the history of MLM. Another sad story of pride & greed hurting thousands of people. Contrary to the TEAM loyalists feelings, Orrin and Chris are only human. As humans, we make mistakes. They have just made an “Enron” size of mistake…
Never put your “Faith” in people. Remember, we serve a jealous God! Go chase the dream that He gave you.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:23 am
Thank You, Quixtar for finally taking action on the absurd behavior of the leaders of the “Team”. You warned them over and over and they would not adhere to the business conduct rules. I think that Quixtar has shown incredible integrity and accountability to the business conduct rules and to the IBO’s who are building the business properly. Quixtar is an amazing corporation that treats everyone with respect while giving all people an equal opportunity to succeed.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:24 am
Dear Orrin,
You can’t build it like a racehorse and then manage it like a jackass.
You can’t build it like a Republican and then manage it like a Democrat.
You can’t build it by edifing the people and the corporation that afforded you the opportunity to make millions and then de-edify those same people. It’s obvious from this blog, that a lot of people are buying your “red bull.”
But I know that down deep, you must be sick! The good news is, that you imploded BEFORE you got to a million people. Now, that would have been really bad.
Know that we are praying for you…
August 13th, 2007 at 12:33 am
First off, building “Team Depth” is an approved method of operation, in use by the Corp. approved MarkerMan Productions (Jody Victor’s org.), and used by other organizations as well, such as Brad Dehaven’s in CA. What the Team founders did was create a NON-PROFIT tools/systems organization–everyone — EVERYONE — is rewarded based on thier own personal performance. NO fairer way of doing this than I’ve ever seen. THink about this–55 weekend BDS’s around the US this month–amazing. No other organization did that. Summer Leaderships - 4 of them - that now outnumber Yager major functions. More “Opens” than any other organization US-wide, and they are ALL THE SAME–no “check with your upline first”, etc. It all makes perfect sense that the Team did in fact revise and put into practice the absolute best, and most fair support system possible. I have been part of (fostered into) another great organization for many years, out of Ohio, whose leaders are among the best people I’ve encountered, and I LOVE the Yagers. I recently — past 3 months, was exposed to the Team, due to our local organization we tie into in the state I’m in. Most organizations in our state saw the way Chuck Goetschel was running his system, and loved it, and when he joined with the Team, these diamond organizations went too. VERY skeptically, I reviewed the Team’s literature, content, CDs, opens, and weekend seminars, as well as the Summer Leadership function. In all my 14 years in the biz, and being tied into InterNet (which is great), I can say the best system overall is this one the Team came up with. They fixed a great deal of what was just not tied together well. Their business plan is not different than Yager diamonds’ plans–not much. No one mentions Quixtar up front in plans / opens. So - all in all, having seen the best system as it was–InterNet–and now the Team’s, it was obvious the most fair to IBOs, and the most consistent, is the Team’s. Never thought I’d say that. Anyone can make more $$ from the system than Orrin or Chris. Everyone knows exactly what that is, unlike in other organizations. Again–it’s a NON-PROFIT company system–amazing. Having the SAME biz plan shown in all opens nationwide–period–does not happen in any other organization. You just cannot knock the Team’s system.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:34 am
Everyone needs to read #193. Right on!
August 13th, 2007 at 12:35 am
Alright! I am not with Team and yet I have heard way tooo much negative from prospects in my area who have been turned off because of their business building practices. It is unfortunate for all involved with the Team…but do us a favor (others who are IBO’s in other LOA’s)…do your deal, with integrity and lay off the name smearing…If you all care about people so much, don’t forget that there are other people building a future with quixtar…and your garbage comments hurt us just as much as the corporation…scam, pyrimad? Come on you know better. Leaders lead, followers follow, and IBOs should filter it through a brain cell.
Oh and please leave Christianity out of this, God has nothing to do with lawsuits and strife…Christians are people and people aren’t perfect…that is what His Grace and Mercy is for.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:39 am
I think this is like a witch hunt! The Corp sees more profit in width than depth. It seems to me if you plan on keeping your IBO # you better go wide or you could be next. By the way is their anyone left on the board that we elected to represent us? Are their any other board members that have used tools like TEAM? Are their any board members left that have built the business like TEAM? Is their any board members currently in the livingrooms? I guess the real question is DO WE HAVE ANY ONE THAT IS BUILDING THE BUSINESS ON THE BOARD? If the answer is yes then my questions are:
Where were you when this happened?
Where were you when the Corp decided to change back to AMWAY?
Where will you be when you become too big for them to handle?
August 13th, 2007 at 12:46 am
Bridgett,
After reading all of these posts and now your last post #227 I must say you sound more and more like a Corp. hack. You never answered the questions that were tossed up to you… ARE YOU AN IBO OR A CORP. EMPOYEE? I’d bet on Corp. employee.
I am a second generation IBO, grew up in this business. I’ve seen the great, good, bad and ugly and this is the ugliest I’ve ever seen. My parents are very large in this business with several friends that have been on the Board. Some friends are Team leaders, most are not and those that are not have been saying the same thing Team is saying now for years. This complaint didn’t just pop up in Orrin’s mind a month ago. This has been a complaint of the Board for several years. They finally made a stand.
Forget about “stacking”, that is not what this is about. Forget about tool systems, that is not what this is about. It is about proper pricing of products so all IBOs can succeed to a greater degree.
Those that have resigned from the Board did what we voted for them to do. They stood up to the Corp. for us and our businesses. I applaud each and every one of them.
I encourage all IBOs considering to follow Team to remove themselves from Auto Renewal before the end of the month. Ride this out a few months and make a decision about renewing at the end of the year. I for one just recently got affiliated with Team thanks to my father choosing to affiliate his organization with them. Seeing, hearing and experiencing Team over the past couple months I know I will be following Team.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:48 am
#170 T.Max wrote:
“…not this time, just tell me when and where Chuck.”
Hey T.Max, ya might want to check with Colleen before you put a lot of faith in Chuck’s loyalty…
August 13th, 2007 at 1:27 am
Anybody know what product the TEAM will be selling, Orrin n Chris’s books? Great books no doubt. However isn’t a tools only business a complete pyrmid? They are at the top they make the most money, hmmm so many questions, GOD bless all involved we hope you choose right.
August 13th, 2007 at 1:35 am
Wow - looks like a lot of passion on all sides!
It is hard to see the truth through all of this.
I can see many statements for Quixtar that don’t look right.
Wasn’t Gotchel accredited? Highly ethical person. His system was approved and I believe he did many of the same things the TEAM does.
All of them were on the IBOA board and their job was to talk for the IBO’s. They got there for a reason. They have a responsibility.
Why would Quixtar send such a message to all the TEAM members when you would think this is an important time for them. Wouldn’t you put your hand out?
The prices for the product are too high - biggest issue when showing the plan.
Do you know expensive it will be and time consuming to create their own NEW business? Most people take the path of least resistance.
Makes sense you would try to work it out first …but if you couldn’t and there was that much money in it, why not start your own. It is America. Competition is good! They would have to bring there prices down.
Sounds like a big company trying to protect themselves using old methods. We have seen this with Polaroid, Motorola, Kodak and many other companies. It rarely works. It is hard for an existing company such as Quixtar to make such changes.
Guess we all need to keep reading until we get our own solution.
August 13th, 2007 at 1:46 am
I wanted to jump in here since I am an IBO/Leader in the Team system.
I have hundreds of IBO’s who purchase tools / attend events sponsored by Team.
And guess what, I have never had one leave/or ask to leave.
The Team system has no non-compete clause or ANY legal document that would tie me our my organization to it.
Really, I can leave at any time!
If the BSM’s they produce don’t help us, we don’t have to buy them. But here is the kicker, If we can find better support elsewhere, we can leave.
That is integrity.
Quixtar/Amway if you want to see us go, then I say let us! if not, you lost any respect I may have had for you.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:13 am
(CHEER) “Go, TEAM, Go”; “Go, TEAM, Go”!
You tell us to Go, TEAM, Go! Well, we will turn that into our battle cry and cheer our leaders on to victory with cheers of “Go, TEAM, Go”!
Men of principles cannot be bought or sold! The Great 8, as they are now known in the blog forums, are all men of high principles and integrity. They have the full support of their wives, families and TEAM. One of them, Reverand Dickie, is an active Minister and mentor to Orrin and Chris! Would he have resigned if it were not the right thing to do? I know Orrin and Chris and their reputation, what they stand for and the people they lead are far more important to them than any monetary gain. Their actions prove it! They sacrificed themselves for me, the new IBO, just as Jesus did for us all over 2000 years ago and they are getting crucified by Quixtar and Alticor because of it!
Orrin and Chris have told the TEAM to run their IBO businesses as usual and continue to bring more IBOs into Quixtar and the TEAM, knowing that their cause is right and just and a Jury Trial to address the issues that Quixtar refused to address at any IBOAI meeting will win out, and when Quixtar is forced to implement the changes required by the Court, it will benefit us all. They have not told us to quit or leave Quixtar or that they are planning a new MLM or product line! Who started that rumor? Quixtar! Quixtar started the mudslinging. You will not find any such mudslinging blog on the TEAM’s website. If you truly want to know more about TEAM and what they stand for then check out: www.the-team.biz
MEDIA WARRIORS FIGHT ON!
August 13th, 2007 at 2:25 am
Re: #219
Best selection of quotes I’ve seen in a long time!
Going to a MILLION!!!
August 13th, 2007 at 2:57 am
Hey over the top loyal to death TEAM mebers..check your leaders out. This is a repeating pattern. I remeber when they were onstage as new Emerald’s with there upline Diamond Ron Hale, then as Diamonds at a Yager Go Diamond. I remember Orrin yelling at everyone about how he bought all the Dexter audios he could and just listened and listened. I remember how zealous he was until they turned their back on Yager and Hale..’cause they couldn’t make enough money!! Now it’s Quixtar..bottom line repeating pattern. They just can’t make enough money until they own their own thing with nobody to answer to. It is all about money and the rest is trash talking smoke and mirrors. Period.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:14 am
First, to those who question why the leaders would remain in and continue to recruit individuals for all of these years if they knew they were in a pyramid: either they didn’t until they reached a high enough level to see behind the scenes, or they needed enough proof to file a suit, which again, for proof they would need to be able to see behind the scenes. - It appears that they assumed this was a legal MLM where you do share in the profits as a result of volume flowing through your business and then reasonably asked for the prices to be lowered as the demand was high (let the prices be determined by the market) - they were after all mfg by Access, owned by the Alticor. corp - shouldn’t the prices be lower? Where are the middlemen…alticor, alticor, alticor..the prices are higher to cover what exactly? and the lady above who tried to explain why they had to adjust pv/pv according to price..any positive adjustment of pv/bv or price would cause more volume = more $$ for ALL…sure they say they’re lowering the prices…I got my ‘Options’ mag…they lowered some, and increased others…soon it will only be amway products! ‘Buy what you were gonna buy anyway with your anyway $ - as long as it’s a big box of really good soap and such that lasts forever so I only have to buy it once every 6 months…
Second, to those of you claiming that Team ‘broke the rules’, 1. they had permission to build as they did 2. The tools consist of leadership/self help books from reputible authors outside of the Team/Amway business as well as motivational cds (sound familiar?) 3. Team members were never told that they had to do anything, in fact they said “you don’t have to do anything that we tell you” however those that followed the system found success 3. Apparently the Amway/Quixtar corp. had a problem following their own rules - the ones that would ensure that they did not operate as an illegal pyramid. Perhaps we should clarify the definition of illegal pyramid from solid source, and then confirm whether or not Quixtar was breeching their own rules. Apparently there is proof, why don’t we let the jury decide…at best Quixtar just doesn’t want to lower the prices (for what reason, you tell me) and really thinks their IBOs would do well under the name Amway. At worst, they get shut down. Either way now, or 6 months from now, Team members are free
August 13th, 2007 at 4:37 am
I’m a returning IBO since earlier this year, having been in when the company was just “AMWAY” in the early 90’s, and leaving just prior to “QUIXTAR”. A friend of mine introduced me to TEAM this year and we were hooked again. The part that always brought me around to this biz was the people side. I already have a job that pays the bills, but being able to help people get ahead and better them/ourselves as a person and not just with the outside material things was the big draw. The positive atmosphere of TEAM meetings and associations with future thinking people is sooo much more refreshing than the everyday backstabbing of corporate/political life. From watching this forum, it seems if Orrin and Chris are being blamed for “The System”. I was impressed that they have the same “system” as what was going on in the early 90’s before they even got in, and that tools cost the same now as they did back then, only now with the talk of profit sharing for those. The corporation, AMWAY or QUIXTAR (why did they ever change the name in the first place by the way?)sanctioned all of these meetings knowing that products don’t excite people, it was the people who were going to inspire the other future business owners to be more than they felt they could ever be. I have to say that I’ve always felt better about myself and the world around me after getting around so many POSITIVE uplifting people! This alone is worth the price of admission to feel that I’m a better father/husband/friend that I was before TEAM/QUIXTAR. I’ve never been forced to purchase any of the “system” cd’s, books or function tickets and have always made up my own mind if I wanted to participate in this system. As a trainer/instructor myself, away from this enviroment, I just knew that I would never get ahead without nor would I be successful without learning about this new field of endeavor, which meant tools. I had spent A LOT of money to be a successful trainer/instructor before coming to the TEAM/QUIXTAR business. I always laughed at people that choke at the cost of tools to do this business but think nothing of spending thousands of dollars for an inane college course/books just because it was “required” for a certain degree.
I knew what I was getting into and who I was doing business with when I started with TEAM/QUIXTAR. My friend and my upline never concealed it from me. Never at any functions or after function talks was anything ever said negative about the corporation. It was always spoke of just as it is, a business that supports the website, pays the bonuses and manufactures GREAT products! I was told from the start that this was NOT a get rich quick scheme and that it was going to take effort and sacrifice to make this a successful business.The fact remains though, that it is the “Carpet crunchers of America” that are running the roads TOGETHER, that will build a great reputation for the company allowing them to sell more products.
I have always liked the products from AMWAY so that didn’t bother me at all that the core products were from them. It did become unsettling to me though, when I got my first box of SA8 , that I couldn’t find the “Manufactured by AMWAY” anywhere on the box. Who deleted that fact and why? Did Orrin and Chris do that also? I’d be able to stand up more for the corporation if they themselves didn’t feel that they had to change the name to become accepted here.
I am still excited by the future of this “negotiation” between TEAM and QUIXTAR because I have never seen a better opportunity yet. Unfortunately, I’m at a roadblock in MY business because I’m not going to show this plan without knowing where we will be tomorrow.
August 13th, 2007 at 5:13 am
Our upline teaches us (when making a decision) to ask ourselves (1) is it good for the business as whole? (2) is it good for the group? and (3) is it good for my business?
Some questions for the thinkers on TEAM…
Did Orrin Woodward act in the interests of the A/Q business as a whole? Including those outside TEAM?
Did Orrin Woodward act in the interests of his group? … the financial interests of every IBO in his downline?
Did Orrin Woodward act in the interests of his own A/Q business?
Any answers, bloggers?
August 13th, 2007 at 6:36 am
Orrin Woodward Leaves Quixtar
Orrin Woodward, the charismatic Diamond leader of the TEAM motivational group, has resigned from Quixtar. The news came to me by a phone call from a friend who advised that I visit the Team Orrin Woodward blog to read the resignation announcement. The …
August 13th, 2007 at 7:32 am
“No taxation without representation”.
No profit for Quixtar without being accountable to the the IBOAI.
I wouldn’t blindly follow the TEAM or similiar groups, however, neither will I put my trust in Quixtar when they ignore common sense, market research, and especially when they ignore the counsel of the IBOAI who are elected to represent us. After all “IBOAI doesn’t have veto power”.
Maybe the 8 IBOAIs see the future before it gets here. I wonder if all the Quixtar loyalists will be as loyal when Quixtar decisions like the Amway name-change damage their businesses?
August 13th, 2007 at 8:18 am
Just for your information you will not find anything like this on the team site www.the-team.biz
August 13th, 2007 at 8:24 am
Go Alitcor…stand up and fight. Enforce the rules of engagement!
August 13th, 2007 at 8:34 am
In response to 249
Did Orrin Woodward act in the interests of the A/Q business as a whole? Including those outside TEAM? Yes, It does’nt sound like ibo’s outside of TEAM want us around anyway!
Did Orrin Woodward act in the interests of his group? … the financial interests of every IBO in his downline? Yes, the future of the TEAM will prove this!
Did Orrin Woodward act in the interests of his own A/Q business? Yes, as I stated above the future of the TEAM will prove this!
August 13th, 2007 at 8:45 am
I love the quote…”Let our people go” Thats all we ask, and our group has never hid the fact that we were affiliated with quixtar. Also the products are very highly priced. I cant sell any products except XS line. You can blame Orrin, but look at the other leaders that left, do you see the trend, Quixtar was given the option to lower prices, ( get rid of the J-factor). Quixtar is a very efficant operation, but very hard to retail their products. We ar excite and we will follow our leadership of TEAM, as we go to a million people, with or without Quixtar.
August 13th, 2007 at 8:47 am
Time will answer all the critics!
I have heard and seen these things many times here in India - someone saying out loud that they are gonna build a bigger MLM than Amway!
I’m still waiting!
All these arguements don’t count - I’m proud of the Amway name and I’ll carry the torch!
If you are negative abt the name ‘Amway’, it’s becoz you haven’t yet met me!!
If you think the products are costly it’s becoz you haven’t bought any product from me!
If you think you have never seen an honest plan, it’s becoz you have never shown one!
And if you think you know all about Amway then you have never read ‘Compassionate Capitalism’!
And if you think what Alticor did now is unfair then you never read your business reference guide!
Thinking and Lamenting will never replace Work!
Go out and work!
Go show an honest plan - tell them it’s Amway or Quixtar!
Do something - meet people with vigour!
And then come back and post here!
August 13th, 2007 at 8:51 am
And regardless of what happens, if the TEAM folded today, I will be a better person, and its because of the leadership of the TEAM.
August 13th, 2007 at 8:54 am
I own a conventional business and I can charge whatever price I want to my customers. I can tell you I am definately not the cheapest.
I use quality parts and take extra special care of my customers. And they buy.
I also own my Quixtar business. I charge my customers whatever I want. I know I am not the cheapest. I take extra special care of each of my customers. And they buy.
I do very well in sales in both businesses. There is no law saying you have to charge a certain price.
To say our products are priced so high we can’t sell them is just not true.
August 13th, 2007 at 9:00 am
Ri61 (#249),
No. No. No. No. No. Who is your upline/which system do they use, how much do they charge for tools, and how much do they make on tools (CD’s, web site, voice mail, books, functions, etc.)?
August 13th, 2007 at 9:14 am
one other thing…Any IBO that is going to make any money at all is going to have to get tough enough to sell a box of SA8. 100 loads for $22.75 and thats expensive? Plus all the other benefits. If you don’t know the other benefits that why you can’t sell it!
Toughen up. Orrin what are you doing? Your teaching your team to be men of steel yet they can’t sell fabric softner? Come on.
August 13th, 2007 at 9:14 am
In respose to #249
Yes, I believe he did. When we joined Quixtar we had never been in Amway. Over the last five years a very high percentage of the people we have shown the plan & registered have stated…. if this is Amway we do not want to be associated. We have assured them we were registering in Quixtar.
With the upcoming name changed to Amway as confirmed by Customer Service yesterday. The name will be changed from Quixtar to Amway. A vast majority of people (on our team) who have a negative feeling towards Amway would quit when this happens.
This was one of Orrins and other IBOA members concerns. And I for one am grateful for their courageous move.
August 13th, 2007 at 9:30 am
Hello Unknown Ri61
ORRIN has done everything for others to reach their dreams. You don’t Know what you don’t know. DUH!!!
That is what I cannot stand for people who don’t know what they don’t know to come on to a blog and just blog….
Go to the the-team.biz site and read…..
You make him out to be a “Hitler”
All the things Orrin has done right by the people to express caring leadership
And all Alticor does sits back and snickers
and says “WE ARE WORKIN ON IT”
ALL ABOUT THE MONEY- “ALTICOR”
ALL ABOUT THE PEOPLE- “ORRIN”
There is a Difference you know………..buddy!
BLOG SOMEWHERE ELSE YOU don’t have enough information to blog here.
BLAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO MORE COMMENTS
August 13th, 2007 at 9:47 am
I vote for Alticor to send out a poll to all its IBOs, especially the active ones, to see who would support the Amway name.
I’ve been building this business for a year now and I’ve not seen a person who had positive comments about Amway other than the products. So they get in, buy products, and do nothing else. Good for the company, but bad for the IBOs as far as rebates. So those people say that Amway doesn’t work. It’s not Amway’s fault though, they are just a supplier after all. It’s the person’s fault that they didn’t build. I don’t have anything against them, it’s their rights, but they are responsible for their business. But it doesn’t change the fact that Amway has a bad name.
A lot of people seem to forget that Quixtar is only as good as its IBOs. I didn’t join this business because of Quixtar. I joined this business because of the person who came to my house.
This is Quixtar:
How many people would would have said YES to “you get in for $70, buy products and get paid. The more people you can talk to that would do the same, the more money you’ll get”. The first question would be, “what are the products?”, then followed by “What are the prices?” You then pull out the catalogue. How many would be interested in products that they’ve never seen before? So they look at the back portion and see all the products that are more expensive than what they could get. So what will they say? “NO”. Then you come out with “Well you need more people for the products to be cheaper”. Now what does the person think? “Oh, so you need to convince people, that in order to get cheaper products, you need to convince people the same?” Then you say “Oh and since we’re in August, you’ll need to pay $70 now and again before January 1st to renew. Sorry, but it’s just bad timing for you I guess.”
How many people would join that? I said almost exactly that over the phone the first few times because that’s the truth. Right? Other than showing the catologue, I was so nervous that it’s almost exactly what I said.
That’s Quixtar!!!!!
Anything mentioned other than that is sugarcoating the truth.
What you see here is Team people defending what other people are accusing. It doesn’t matter what the situation is. People will defend and people will accuse. Name an organization and someone will find fault in it.
I’m proud to be with legacy, which has now merged with Team. I have nothing against Legacy, but it’s not until Team that my relationship with my wife has taken a turn for the better, and it’s not because of money
. I’ve learned to better deal with people. I’ve learned to better deal with money, to appreciate life and many other things that, remove Quixtar, is all applicable in life. Team has changed my life that no amount of money can buy. For that, I’m gratefull.
August 13th, 2007 at 9:52 am
Hey TOM G.
Believe in Orrin and Chris keep showin’ the plan 15, 20 times a month. We are not done with our business…we are not done with the launching of the leadership revolution press on my friend. The content and commerce might be changing but we are still going to be a TEAM.
THE CONTENT and Commerce is just what it is, ANYBODY can do content and commerce….Alticor does it don’t they, My neighbor down the street does it….you could too if you wanted to.
BUT THE TEAM builds and has built a COMMUNITY #1 in the whole Alticor/Quixtar/Amway business model. A/Q/A, now are just being selfish kids and hateful to the creator of a SYSTEM Better then theirs. THEY ARE JEALOUS THAT IT WASNT THEIR IDEA.
SHOW THE PLAN 4-5-6 times a week
A GREAT WISE MAN ONCE SAID
“When my critics said no, my destiny said GO”
SINCERELY,
Matthew Day
PS Trust me, Alticor is sad to see those leaders do what did because that took leadership and it took pure guts.
NO MATTER what I say they already said enough…”Alticor” that is.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:10 am
I have not been in the business for many years (8+) after leaving to take care of my father’s company. There are many issues here. I will try to simplify them.
1. The majority of the income is made in the promotional materials. This is undisputable. Our income was mostly tools and tapes. At the Ruby level it would have been more than double our bonus checks. Adding the shared profits from funtions, speaking, etc., and it approaches the mid-six figures at the diamond level.
2. The 10 customer rule is not enforced.(and never has been, at least since the Bernice Hansen days) This technically makes Amway/Quixtar a wholesale buying club, which is illegal regarding tax deductions, etc.
3. Tha Alticor/Quitar name change was just a legal strategy to avoid paying inheritance taxes of over a billion dollars. That’s why they’re now changing back to Amway. If you don’t believe me, then why did Amway Japan sell 10% of its stock right after Rich had his first serious heart episode? To raise funds for the inevitable. Why did that last yacht they built have a helipad on the bow? So a medivac helicopter could whisk someone away in a hurry? Who? (Direct from a Diamond’s mouth) Anyone who understands tax law knows this was all a thinly veiled method of avoiding inheritance/transferrence(sp?) taxes. Don’t believe me? Check out who owns the majority of Alticor/Quixtar/whatever now, and who owned it back before the name changed. It’s a little different, isn’t it? The answer is to get rid of the inheritance tax, but that’s another subject.
4. The majority of IBO’s never make money. That’s a fact. Most are not business people. If they just sold products at a profit, they might make money, but once they buy tools, etc., they don’t stand a chance.
After seeing all this from the inside (direct distributor-pre-INA beakup days), I realized that there is a reason there are less than a thousand diamonds and up. The Amway dream is not a reality, but more like a pipe dream. A select few will make it to the top, but the overwhelming majority won’t, and they will line the pockets of the few that do.
I don’t know if it can be fixed. I loved the association and the environment, but to spend $8-10K a year on tools, etc., well…
I don’t pretend to know what the issue is with TEAM or anyone else. I just know that the system is broken, and has been for a long, long time. I hope something good comes out of it and that a lot of people don’t get hurt.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:28 am
Bridgett, I agree with Steve #240 - you never answered my question in your response to me #227 or #230. Again I ask: Are you an IBO or you or your husband or any family members working for the corporation as employee(s)?
For over 30 years, in or out of Amway/Quixtar I’ve always held it in high regard until now. I’ve lost all faith in Quixtar/Amway/Alticor or what ever you want to call yourselves. The corporate’s unilateral dissolution of the board is disturbing. Having an ADA/IBOIA Board set this MLM apart from the other “like but better than” MLMs. Now Quixtar/Amway is in the same boat.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:28 am
For everyone’s information, I have seen the Woodwards and Bradys several times this past weekend at church events. They have not said ONE WORD to anyone about a new business opportunity or what happened with Alticor last week. Do you know why??? I think it’s because they are going to do things the right way. They are going to abide by the court’s rulings, and they are not going to do anything until a court says they can.
I know what Orrin’s mission has been, almost from the start. To provide a business opportunity that is fair for everyone. One that provides reasonably priced products and a plan that can provide a good income to an average person. Orrin hoped, prayed, and planned to work WITH Quixtar to make that happen. I think the owners and managers of Q have gotten so far away from the original purpose of their business.
Orrin was just asking for some consideration on pricing. NOT every product. Just 10 or 15 products that no one can beat us on price. (I know all the arguments about quality and value–most of the products are superior. But how much extra is a customer willing to pay for superior laundry soap? A BMW is a superior car, but to ask the average person to buy one, then if you convince lots of other people to buy one, you’ll actually be able to afford it!)
Instead of taking a common sense approach (let’s see, I can make $1 on 500 items or I can make .40 on 10,000 items), the corporation decided to eliminate the “trouble makers” and then issue a press release that lies and slanders Woodward and Brady. (Check out the SA4400 that Quixtar approved that shows the TEAM method of depth building that Woodward and Brady have repeatedly said Team IBOs MUST give to every single prospect BEFORE they register.)
I’m not EVEN going to go into the name change to Quixtar. (When Quixtar was started, IBOs could choose to sign with either Quixtar or Amway or both. If you chose both, you paid for both!)
I think the people running Alticor are either 1. out of their minds, or 2. trying to put U.S. IBOs out of business. Think about it. They love the Asian market because those people are very docile and compliant. Communists don’t make very many waves!
My guess is–they want to put ALL North American IBOs out of business so they can start over and use the model they are using in Asia, which includes retail outlets. And guess what? Then they will be FORCED to offer competitive prices, and gosh, they could have avoided all of this mess had they just done that in the first place!
August 13th, 2007 at 10:39 am
IBOs, imagine not having to use the quality over quantity argument that Quixtar/Amway has indoctrinated us to say for years. I’ve even heard it here in this blog - we’ve all been good obedient students. Thank God we had board members willing to fight for all IBOs rather than just take their money and run. It’s called “making a difference”.
In early August, I listened to Orrin and Laurie Woodward at a seminar. Not once did they drag Quixtar or Alticor down into the mud like he and the other board members have been dragged by Alticor’s opening statement.
As Michael Dell said years ago in Detroit: You can have Content and Commerce (Alticor) but those who develop Community will be a major player on the internet. Community, that’s us the IBOs - who do you think I’m going to be loyal to? Alticor or TEAM?
Whether they be the President or the leaders affliliated with TEAM - A man or woman of integrity has time on their side to prove that they were right.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:44 am
Wow Quixtar Wow! If you would have cleaned up BWW, Winners International and other money sucking motivation organizations, we wouldn’t have quit! Good luck for the cleaning of this mess.
Don’t wait till these organizations hurt Quixtar, rather expel or warn them when they violate rules and screw people who start as an IBO. If you do so, then there won’t be any negative blogs against Quixtar. Then, you don’t have to do GOOGLE BOMBING to “regain your reputation in the net”, if you’ve anything left!
August 13th, 2007 at 10:53 am
In response to Dad’s post 233:
Don’t put your faith in people, Orrin and Chris are only human… and the leaders of Amay are not? Are they not human a falable as well? If your going to blindly lump people into that category why stop with some people who are actually trying to do something for the IBO and take a hard look at the owners of the company… how come they escape your radar as to possibly being greedy, and ego-maniacs? The Team has never said they were perfect, they never will be, but I have done enough research to know their motives are pure and for the IBO, whether you agree with them or not, if you truly knew, you would not be slinging crap like that around, but hey this is America, this is the Internet, and the masses believe the whining of a few jaded individuals all the time, we ALL fight that every time we go out to build our business…
Take some responsibility to go learn both sides as much as you can before putting your foot in your mouth, especially on the Internet, as you can not take it back…
August 13th, 2007 at 10:59 am
FYI…From Orrin’s Web site:
“Orrin Woodward was deeply saddened by Alticor’s blog post, “Just Go, Team,” (http://media.alticorblogs.com/2007/08/10/just-go-team/#comments) however, he has chosen to remain silent on the issue. Interestingly enough, the article paints Orrin Woodward as a serious violator of the Quixtar rules, yet he has never been sanctioned for any Rule violation in his 13 years in the business.”
Explain that one!!
August 13th, 2007 at 11:13 am
As a TEAM member for 18 months, I feel that the TEAM members are probably in a better position to talk about TEAM practices than other IBOs who have not been to any of our opens, seminars or majors. How can you possibly talk about something that you have NEVER been a part of ? We have ALL been a part of Q and their prices, practices and now decisions to take us back to a name that NO ONE I have EVER talked to wants to be a part of. Ninety five percent, I repeat 95% of all the people I have talked to has a first question…”is this Amway? cause if it is, no way ! ” And Q thinks this is a positive move ?
As to our building pattern, I want just ONE of you to explain why this was fine for years & years until Orrin’s organization got big enough to challenge some of the Q practices and now he’s a pariah ? He could ( and should )have been terminated LONG before now if it was not an approved method.
And if Q truly wants him to go, the let those who choose to go with him, leave as well. in other words, terminate us too, if necessary. Why KEEP people who will just quit showing the plan or ordering anyway ? Because, trust me, if we are not allowed to go, we WILL leave anyway….just keep us on your books for 6 months until we can do it your way. We won’t order. We won’t build. Not your way.
Finally, ask yourself one thing. If the “company” has helped me to build my business, why would I want to leave it for a “leadership group “? Maybe the “company” didn’t help me build it. Maybe the “leadership group” has been more instrumental in my success. Hmmmmmm
August 13th, 2007 at 11:32 am
#242 — xsibo FYI, the ENTIRE profit from the “Launching A Leadership Revolution,” soon to be launched by Time/Warner books and written by Orrin and Chris is being donated to charity! They are in the process now of writing a book on mentoring, which they fully expect to be taken up by Time/Warner, also, with the same profit deal. It is my understanding they take NO profit from the sales of their books. They take their FAIR part of tool sales and Function tickets as members of the TEAM system. That’s ALL they make from it.
For those who wonder if the TEAM’s tool system is secret, consider this: We’d been part of TEAM only a very short time when our Diamond sat our local group down in an informal meeting and explained it to us, COMPLETELY. He said if new people ask, it was okay to tell them. They have been nothing but up front with us from the start.
When my upline builds under me, I am pleased to know they are working in my best interest and theirs. They keep me actively involved. We have always had the practice of a MINIMUM of a phone call between the new IBO and the existing one, so there is a personal contact.
RETIRED Double Diamond and past IBOAI PRESIDENT Don Wilson came to Legacy a couple of years before it joined TEAM and explained how they built depth using that method I just described, and how we were going to similarly do it. He said it had the FULL SUPPORT AND APPROVAL of the corporation AND its legal team. We did it then, and continued when Legacy joined with TEAM in February of this year.
Either the corporation lied to Don and us then, or they are lying to you and everyone else now.
August 13th, 2007 at 11:34 am
I am an Independent Business Owner who fought for my freedom. I have been helping others fight for their freedom, too. I brought my family & friends into this with a hope and a dream. They did the same and their friends did the same. Quixtar didn’t know us, has no relationship with us, hasn’t helped us. They haven’t come to weddings and funerals. They haven’t comforted us or stayed up late at night with us. They haven’t turned us into men and women of character and integrity. They’ve not picked us up when we fell down. They’ve not nurtured and loved us.
Quixtar/Alticor decided without our knowledge, consent or opinion that we will be Amway distributors. A bunch of Emeralds and up confronted Doug DeVos and Steve Van Andel in person about this at a meeting in L.A. Their explanation for this major change was very disturbing. Their response to our negative reactions, extremely unsatisfying. That day I learned that I could not trust these leaders running Quixtar. They planned this in secret and are forcing it down all of our throats. They have not been loyal to me, and I have no reason to be loyal to them. I felt helpless and hopeless for our future. I felt trapped because we have all invested many years, and blood sweat and tears into this thing. My eyes have been opened- I am not independent at all. I am not free at all, they own me.
Quixtar has supplied us product and paid a bonus based on performance. They have been honorable & excellent at that. They’ve not helped develop our performance ability in any way.
I don’t think any of us realized until this lawsuit that we were property(slaves) of Quixtar. Quixtar is changing the deal with no regard for the damage it will do to our businesses. I have the right to fight for these friends and relatives. These brave men and women who have been terminated are helping fight for our friends and relatives to free them from their slavery.
August 13th, 2007 at 11:34 am
Regarding the Character of the Team’s Leaders:
These men have very comfortable lifestyles. They could have pulled out, waited 6 months and started new with a better way.
People are asking why didn’t they just go quietly and wait six months to do their own thing? My question: What kind of man with a backbone would?! Thank goodness they aren’t just leaving us to the wolves to defend ourselves.
Instead, they chose the unbeaten path. They have forfeited precious time with their wives, children, and families in order to help the rest of us. They have already invested millions of dollars into this law suit in order to provide the soon-to-be-departed IBO’s with a much brighter future. This whole uproar is not about seeking damages or any kind of monetary gain from Quixtar. Orrin is simply today’s Moses asking Quixtar to “Let my people go”.
These men are the most unselfish men I have ever met. They spend countless hours coming up with a better system when what they are doing has already proven to work quite well. They have always said, “Why settle for good when great is available?”.
The bottom line is these men would not have put their businesses out on the line if they did not truely believe it was a cause worth fighting for. These men are millionaires fighting billionaires, much like David and Goliath. I am a firm believer that God honors commitment, character and integrity.
Men of integrity expect to be believed, and when they are not, they let time prove them right.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
I agree with 268 about the Asian model. I have suspected this for some time now. They will be able to lower the prices because they will not have to pay the bonuses for the GREAT EIGHT or any other leaders that become too successful!
August 13th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
I just want to say that I am all for this move. I support the plans that are to be implemented in 2 years as well as the decisions made the past few days on select IBOships.
I personally have seen some of the confusion and damage made by the “TEAM” (though I don’t want to say everyone in the TEAM is a bad apple because that is not true)
I look forward to having a better business and making more money then before and I feel bad for members of these leaders who made decisions that put those IBO’s in such a state.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
ATTENTION ALL TEAM MEMBERS!!!
Coming soon to a TV show near you,
See it on Dateline…20/20…60 Minutes..etc
..See Billy Florence talk about how the big greedy Amway Corporation has a fleet of airplanes and he only has one. How fair is that, after all he was in the air force?
..See the adoring fans of Orren Woodward. They will show you how the illegal pyramid company would not let him do business his own way. After all, they let him get away with it for years and then he has to start following the rules. The company is flip-flopping on Orrin, how dare they, he is the next president.
..Watch Valerie Haugen cry on camera. The mean Alticor corporation terminated Randy’s IBO number.
..You will see Chris Brady stacking the treasures he found in Quixtar into his new MLM.
..The scene will start with Jim Martin standing by a beautiful mountain, he will look up and see a majestic eagle flying. Next a cage will be around the eagle, and the scene will be in a zoo. The cage bars on the screen will represent the “unfair” rules of the rich corporation. (I admit that I’m a lousy screen writer)
..We will see Chuck Getchell running in a triathlon. Then switch over to Asafa Powell running for less than 10 seconds. How dare this unfair company put Asafa’s picture on Double X and leave Chuck out.
..You will be able to check out the luxury suite in the Delta Center, see the Jazz playing in the background while Don Wilson talks about Rich DeVos and how Rich can own the big Amway Arena and he only has this little suite. Is it not fair that only Rich owns a basketball team? All of the IBO’s should own a basketball team, or at least the ones that have been in the longest and are on top of the stack!
(If you listened to the above diamonds tapes you will get it)
To the leaders, I do not believe that this is the real you. Get humble, go back to Alticor and help make our business a 100 million people worldwide success. If not then go away and build what ever you want but do not trash where you came from and do not steal from your upline. Don’t forget, everyone in your group is also in your uplines group.
To all IBO’s including TEAM IBO’s. Build a 1000PV first circle, teach that and create 15 to 20 1000PV front line and then duplicate!
God Bless all in whatever you decide.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
I’m amazed at how many IBO’s who were part of the Quixtar pyramid plan have totally scrapped that building system and decided to give themselves a real opportunity to grow their business with the TEAM business system. The TEAM, under the top notch leadership of Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady have driven more “Shoppers to the Quixtar site than any other, yet, Quixtar would cut off their noses to spite their face because they know the TEAM is strong and solid and wouldn’t blink an eye as far as leaving Quixtar. Quixtar under panic, is persuing the “HITLER” style of business called divide and conquer! They send out their little scare letters to IBO’s on the TEAM hoping they’ll panic and stay with Quixtar. Orrin Woodward teaches people to make their own choices in life. We chose the TEAM because of it’s second to none leadership which Quixtar can’t even come close to. Bottom line, the TEAM isn’t a money driven organization!
We’re about the people. We’re about family, loyalty, integrity and character. If Quixtar had any of that, this wouldn’t even be an issue. I am so looking forward to moving on without the Quixtar name being a negative factor in the progress of our TEAM businesses!
Orrin and Chris and the great TEAM leadership, you can count on me. I’ve got your back!
August 13th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Has anyone actually read the complaint!? Only 3.4% of Quixtar’s volume comes from customers. Holy smokes! That is conclusive proof that the products aren’t marketable! As we IBOs build our businesses, we get a lot of no’s. When we get no’s, we try to turn them into customers. We have a ton of opportunities to get customers, but we never can due to the prices. 3.4%!! I’d like to see if that document exists.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
If Quixtar is so confident that their business system is so unbelievably good, why do they need to send out thousands of their e-mails in an effort to scare TEAM IBO’s into staying with Quixtar? Listen, I’ve been a “Quixtar” IBO in the past and I had little to no chance of su