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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
August 10th, 2007 @ 3:59 pm ET…
Just go, Team
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
We terminated Orrin Woodward yesterday, along with several other leaders of his field organization, named Team. We’ll post our formal statement when it’s ready. Informally, here’s the story:
We terminated Orrin Woodward for philosophical reasons. We did it for legal reasons.
But the main reason we did it is because the way Orrin Woodward ran his organization was a disgrace to every person who’s ever tried to build a Quixtar or Amway business the right way.
We have fought to clean up the reputation of our company for years. We know that one of the biggest challenges our reputation faces is misrepresentation of the Quixtar and Amway businesses to others.
And over the last several months, it became clear to us that Orrin Woodward was a poster child for a long list of bad business practices that our critics hate about our company. The other leaders we terminated – including Chris Brady, Billy Florence, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Tim Marks and Chuck Goetschel – also showed they were unwilling to reform.
Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could.
Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.
Telling people that Quixtar was merely a “supplier,” and not the company they were signing a contract with? Yup.
We’d told Woodward we had problems with the way he ran his business for years, and we worked methodically to bring those problems to resolution. We got ignored, we got lied to, and, boy, we got the runaround.
So in the end, yesterday, we tried to give him one last chance to reform.
He didn’t even want to hear his options. So we terminated him. And in return, he handed us a trumped-up, trash-talking lawsuit on his way out the door. In response, we have a temporary restraining order issued by a court that prevents him from looting the business as he seeks to take his act to a new company.
So he’s gone, and so are others. We are doing our best to repair the relationships Orrin Woodward damaged and protect the businesses of the people in his organization that Orrin Woodward betrayed. And we will continue building our business with thousands of people who know how to build it the right way.
We would say we were sorry to see Orrin Woodward go. But only if that were true.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
August 11th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
Alticor’s PR sucks. Based on this Blog, they want Team to leave, did they forget to eat their Cheerios that day? Or did they forget that includes hundred of thousand IBOs, millions of sales? Yet they send out a sappy gutless email “please stay” and then crash talk us here? We will consider the class action suit fulfilled since this Blog has set us free from corporate dictatorship. I hope this Blog is view by the masses before the 08 election. Aliticor’s integrity sucks hopefully American’s will stay in tack.
August 11th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
CONGRATULATIONS QUIXTAR !!! I thought you were a free enterprise business, a business of helping people succeed, 21 days from being a fully qualified Emerald but your cheap shot e-mail (instead of handling this as christian brothers behind close doors) “spooked our teams and many hours of work flushed down the drain, and were supposed to trust you guys. Recommended reading for your “leaders” Speed of Trust, thanks for all you have done you have done just as much damage and confused alot of people and good luck in your future business whatever your name may become?
August 11th, 2007 at 10:05 pm
Response to Jim #94 who said:”…if a prospect from my town calls Quixtar for information they refer them to the Diamond in my area to sell them products or sponsor them. My question is what is different about the stacking rule for the company?…And I feel this is an unfair practice because I should have the same right to place a prospect in my down line”
Two things:
1) Platinum. Quixtar refers the person to a Platinum, not a Diamond. And they refer a potential IBO to a Platinum rather than l’il ol’ you, because the Platinum has proven him/herself. You, as the guy with the closest zip code, hasn’t.
2) This is not stacking. This is a referral. Quixtar has the interest of the new potential IBO in mind, rather than the interest of those who’ve been around the longest (as is the case with the stacking method).
Performance versus seniority.
Legal business model versus Ponzi scheme.
August 11th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
“Just go, Team” Alticor said it.
Good riddance” - several have said that.
Then why not just let them go? Alticor has probably made their millions off the sales. I saw the legal complaint on one of the blogs. It seems that what they want is to be able to leave without the waiting period. If you want them to go, agree to release them from the non-compete and let them go. What if a few IBO’s go with them? Not letting them go gives Quixtar the image of greed and petty vengance.
Besides, that’s nothing compared to the IBO failure rate that will occur when Quixtar changes its name to Amway. The two biggest obstacles I run into when I show catalogs to people are the pricing and the almost universal distrust of Amway. I always have to distance myself from the Amway name.
The negative publicity isn’t helping either side of the conflict.
August 11th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
I meant pyramid scheme. Not Ponzi scheme.
I’m getting my illegal business practices confused!
August 11th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
To Jim,
What I meant was that if a person called Quixtar and wanted to get into the business (an example someone else mentioned in an earlier post), the company does not automatically sign him/her up with some unknown sponsor. They have someone contact that person ‘in person’ and talk to them. If that person wants to get into the business, they sign up and are sponsored by the person they talked to. As I am hearing about this stacking that TEAM is doing, a person may be signed up under someone that they have never even met. That is why when they have been asked who their sponsor is, they don’t know. How personal is that.
I knew the person who sponsored me for a while before I signed up and we were friends. Later they left the business and the person that sponsored them became my new sponsor. I also knew them.
Also my sponsors ’suggested’ using books and tapes, but never told me I had to buy them. They have always been honest and above board with me.
Personally, I will stay with Quixtar/Amway and be honest with people. If someone asks if this (Quixtar) is Amway, I will patiently explain it to them. Then I will never have to worry that they will think I lied to them.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
and this is a direct quote from Alticor’s own site…
” Quixtar is actively reaching out to IBOs who were in the Team”
that’s waht they are calling this post ? I don’t THINK so…not with this diatribe against anyone of us who ever had a part in TEAM.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Hi Bridgett, Oh, Did I forget to tell you that I am a Platinum? l’il ol’ you know’s his facts and has built the business! I left this part out just to see if I could get the responce I expected from someone like you. Welcome to the new Amway business where you find out the rest of the story when it is too late!
August 11th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
#102 SA said:21 days from being a fully qualified Emerald but your cheap shot e-mail (instead of handling this as christian brothers behind close doors) “spooked our teams and many hours of work flushed down the drain, and were supposed to trust you guys…thanks for all you have done you have done just as much damage and confused alot of people.”
Response: SA, if you built your Emeraldship the way TEAM does (stacking), it is ILLEGAL.
ILLEGAL, IMMORAL, UNETHICAL.
A/A/Q caused damage and confusion? Are you sure it wasn’t Orrin and Chris who has caused damage and confusion—to the ENTIRE community of IBOs?
You are blaming Alticor/Amway/Quixtar because the “leaders” of TEAM taught you how to build an illegal business?
That’s kinda messed up logic don’t you think?
August 11th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
DeVos/VanAndle - Like fathers NOT like sons. In 1959 Rich and Jay started Amway because they couldn’t continue with Nutrilite Corp’s unfair practices. Today, almost 50 years later their sons are doing the same thing to IBOs that caused their fathers to break away from Nutrilite. Thank God for people like the Woodwards and Bradys and everyone associated with TEAM. They have been the only ones with the guts to stand up to the greedy DeVos/VanAndle kids. Anyone who reads the complaint filed by the co-founders of TEAM will see that they have valid argument. It seems that the Amway/Quixtar Management is on the wrong side of this issue. Stop being so greedy.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:34 pm
Quixtar will let the Team go, they can all write letters and get out. It will be several months before Team has anything put together anyway. Team has some leverage in the marketplace but not enough to put together a product line like Quixtar offered. They’ll be selling fuel addatives and vitamins for a while.
Team leaving Quixtar without a product line creates a mass of problems.
1. What about the Ibo’s and member clients who like the products…they won’t leave
2. In the interm all Team has is a cd and book selling busines That won’t sell!
3. Team upline is already recruiting downline in other peoples ” second teams” especially those on system since that is the only source of income for the near future. I’m seeing this happen already. A current Quixtar Emerald won’t be making much money with no PV. A current IBO on system looks like a life vest on the Titantic.
3 Who decides who goes where and how will the business be structured.
It will be a long and messy divorce
August 11th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
I echo 41 completely! Thank you for all you do Alticore and all the employees.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
Looks like a lot has happened in the last 48 hours. As a long time IBO I have thought I had seen it all.Apparently not! High prices have been difficult to overcome but the belief that the products were superior caused us to trudge forward anyway, building our teams (no pun intended).
It is true that Amway allowed their name to be damaged, but equally true that they also failed to protect the Quixtar name. In a stroke of genius, a decision was made to go back to Amway since that was their roots. That should help a lot since the name still produces 8 out of 10 negative comments on a google search even though the company has not done business in the US for several years. The “team”
Now another brilliant decision has been made. In less than 2 hours the decision was made to terminate the businesses of some of the most respected men in the history of the business. These are men that sacrificed countless hours, days, even weeks of their lives serving on the IBOA board in an attemt to help move the business (Amway, then Quixtar) forward, to make it a better opportunity for the men and women who joined the overall “team” (not to beconfused with TEAM as on individual organization). These men were often praised by the corporation for their dedication and loyalty, as well as for the contribution their efforts made to the company and the IBO organizations. Their termination by the company is a sad thing for all IBO’s as well as for Quixtar. No one will win , everybody looses. I hope that in the future decisions of such great impact will be more carefully considered.
I realize this is lengthy, But I truly love this business and it is very dissappointing to realize that the company seems more interested in corporate ego than long term growth for allinvolved.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:00 am
In response to # 106… Team “stacking” is just as you desribed the company “referral” to be. People may not physically meet their sponsor, but they are introdced at a minimum by phone,preferably in person, to their sponsor. How is that stacking?
August 12th, 2007 at 12:20 am
What a crying shame. Amway is horribly damaging their already extremely tarnished reputation. I truly feel sorry for all if the IBO’s making a honest effort to build the Amway “business”. Amway is just killing their American business…it is rather obvious that they are putting all of their focus outside of this country. They might want to consider canning the Amway name and changing their name to “Chinway”. The free enterprise minded people in the USA are wising up. I certainly hope DeVos has not intentions of running for any political offices again, he is really screwing up his creditability.
Do all of you who are siding with Amway really think that Woodward and Brady have lost their minds or developed a “bighead”…these guys are standing up for the common men and women of America! Do you really think that the other extremely successful IBO’s that have been with Amway, and have had extremely large organizations, would be putting their businesses at risk to fight the battle of preserving free enterprise, and fighting the consumer rebellion?
In response to 81. Chris… I wouldn’t judge the Leaders character if I were you. They stuck with Quixtar/Alticor/Amway with hopes that they would eventually change their pricing structure. They put a lot of time and effort into the matter so you could build a more successful business.
I hope that those of you not affiliated with Team attempt to understand the truth, for the sake of your businesses and your families.
Whatever the Team leaders(it’s not just the Woodward/Brady show anymore)have in store [thanks to Amway for announcing to all of the Team IBO’s about the possibility of a new MLM (they didn’t know)], you all need to know that it is for the good of our country. They have God on their side, He knows where their heart is!
August 12th, 2007 at 12:22 am
Recently (July 2007) we had a IBO within our orgaization who had been in for some time decided they no longer wanted to be associated with the Quixtar name.
They sent in a letter requesting to be released and as simple as that the corporation terminated ther IBO #. Would this not be possible for those of us who have decided we no longer wish to be associated Quixtar?
Instead of mud slinging and lawsuits - would it not be simpler to leave without damaging the name of Quixtar or Team?
August 12th, 2007 at 12:28 am
I am a recent member of TEAM. Our upline organization joined this year. I do not know Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady personally, though I have heard them speak and listen to their CD’s.
The most recent time was on the 4th of August, at our local Seminar, when Orrin and his lovely wife Laurie spoke for us. They were warm, real and funny people, and you could tell they cared about the people there. They were in the middle of this, ready to fly back for the emergency IBOAI Board meeting that led to all of this, and revealed none of it. Instead, they imparted wisdom and strength to all there.
I do know Don and Nancy Wilson personally. I have been in their home. I know them to be people of integrity and character. In answer to someone’s querey, Don was not just Vice-President of the IBOAI Board (the capacity in which he was serving when he resigned), he was a past PRESIDENT of it!! He and Nancy mentored Randy and Valorie Haugen, and as the leaders of TEAM Legacy, I know Don and therefore also Randy would do nothing ill-considered or rash, and would ONLY act in the best interests of the IBO’s in their groups.
Don and Randy have chosen to go with TEAM. Where they go, WE GO. They and our upline sponsors and Diamonds have earned our trust and love. This hate-filled diatribe of a blog has almost ruined any chance of good feelings for the future between us and you, Quixtar or Amway or whatever you’re calling yourselves this week.
And yes, I read the whole lawsuit, the same day the TEAM office emailed it to us. They communicated with us FIRST, and told us the TRUTH and let us see it for ourselves, instead of hitting us with hate like you did.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:30 am
This is long winded, so I will apologize, but in my bias opinion, it is worth your time.
It is interesting what people say on here. I will admit, I do not know ALL the FACTS, but I know all that is available to me; including what the lawsuit entails. I think it is important that if you would like to get your point across, at least do your homework and post only on the topics that you have taken the time to research for yourself.
I am a member of TEAM and am very proud of that. I do see how people are criticizing some of our members for not thinking for themselves. There are posts from both sides that show ignorance and lack of thinking. This is not a problem with TEAM, this is a problem with our society. People read something, hear something, see something on TV and decide to speak on it like they are experts. It is not TEAM’s fault some members do become drones. That is definitely NOT the goal behind their system. We are encouraged to read many books that are not written by anyone in our organization. Every book has been extremely inspiring and encourages personal growth. It has actually given me a great deal of new knowledge.
Please stop and really think about how most businesses/companies that you have had experience with operated/treated you. I have encountered many situations that were un-ethical, un-just, etc. Corporate America sucks! And unfortunately, every decision in business can not be a win/win. I attended GVSU and earned my degree in advertising/marketing with a minor in business. I have been in many different executive business positions and because of the “game” attached with corporate America, I chose to start my own business 2 years ago. It has been extremely successful and continues to profit each and every month. Though this is true, I am looking for a better opportunity and TEAM is it. TEAM may not be perfect, but I feel it is the best opportunity that I have experienced.
41. Chaitanya Says:
“All of you who want to leave can leave!”
That is the main thing that TEAM is asking for. There is a 6 month non-compete that Quixtar has in their contract. We can not leave and continue to operate as an IBO until that period is over.
If it comes down to it, I know that we will choose to leave Quixtar and put our business on hold for 6 months. That is a small price to pay in order to continue to build our business in such a way that opportunity is truly available for anyone.
We were lucky enough to see the plan when XS was already part of the product line. If it wasn’t, I would have laughed at Quixtar’s pricing and shut the door on this opportunity forever. Though the quality of the other products is good…they do not justify the prices. The internet plays a HUGE part in retail competition because price comparisons are just a click away. I feel that Quixtar will have to change their ways in order to provide a solid opportunity for new IBOs. I hope they do.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:36 am
#108, Jim, you’re a Platinum?
I don’t believe you.
If you are a Platinum and not receiving referrals from the Corp., then maybe it’s because the Corp wouldn’t refer anyone to you because you are not building your QUIXTAR business in accordance with THE QUIXTAR IBO COMPENSATION PLAN
http://www.quixtar.com/documents/iwov/vis/010-en/pdf/IBO%20Support/BusForms/SA4400.pdf
and the RULES OF CONDUCT
http://www.quixtar.com/About/default.aspx?cid=4175&pid=639
Have any of you TEAM IBOs been exposed to these documents?
August 12th, 2007 at 12:43 am
I think that if the management and owners of Quixtar had vision they would have put Orin and Chris on the board of Quixtar instead of what they’ve done. Those two guys would have brought a breath of fresh air into a company that has forgotten its original promise. Quixtar would be doing 1 billion a quarter by now instead instead of annually.
Despite this debacle, MLM activity will continue to explode and it will only be a matter of time before the market produces a player that can deliver high quality products at competitive prices and provide an environment of profitability for its IBO’s.
The bottom line is that this incident marks the begining of the end for Quixtar’s high prices and unreasonably high profits at the expense of its IBO’s. It is consumer demand that drives manufacturing to meet that demand not the other way around. The consumer or community has the economic power over the manufacturer not the other way around. Quixtar will have to compete or Quixtar won’t survive.
Quixtar may not see viable competition on the horizon but that shouldn’t keep them from making the right business decisions now before it’s too late. Something as basic to business as competitive pricing should not be an issue, especially to executives of a 1 billion dollar company who should have learned that in Business 101.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:51 am
109…
You don’t understand how Team builds…it is FAR from IMMORAL and UNETHICAL, you haven’t a clue!
If you want call it illegal, think twice…I bet you have never gone a mph over the speed limit, or have you? Speeding serves a purpose, stacking (which really isn’t the method) doesn’t!!
A piece of advise to all of you…
pick up a good book this blog, or any for that matter, is a waste of your time!!!
August 12th, 2007 at 12:53 am
In response to 116. CAT
TEAM did request that they no longer be associated w/ Quixtar and be exempt from the 6mo. non-compete clause in the IBO contract. Since Quixtar would not grant that (for obvious reasons), TEAM filed the lawsuit requesting that the courts grant us the freedom to operate with a different company.
We would have happily left with out any legal action.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:54 am
Why didn’t Alticor/Quixtar/Amway just lower the extravagant prices on their products? Have any of you asked yourself that question? If not, you should. It’s also not a coincidence that Alticor/Quixtar/Amway are allegdedly going to have lower prices starting in October. Alticor/Quixtar/Amway knew that a large percentage of IBO’s have been very upset about product pricing. How did they know this? Because Orrin and Chris have been trying to reason with them for a couple of years about lowering the prices of the products to be more competetive with todays GLOBAL market. Alticor/Quixtar/Amway have an unsavory reputation that can not be ignored. They have not cleaned up their business practices and if you doubt this you should read the lawsuit involving Alticor/Amway/Quixtar vs Nitro Dist.,Palm Convention Services,Inc.,Netco Inc.,Schmitz & Associates Inc., and U-Can II, Inc. This lawsuit involves Alticor/Amway/Quixtar’s Arbitration provision and how they screen and hand pick the arbitrators. Then they put them through a 2 day training period of more interviews, training videos (10 hours) and role playing using specific scenarios that may arise in from this business. In the end Alticor/Amway/Quixtar’s actions were found unconscionable by the U.S District Court for The Western District Of Missouri.
If you’re happy with Alticor/Amway/Quixtar’s business practices then I say “stick with them”. If you’re not, then move on to bigger and better opportunities. The last time I checked this was still The United States Of America; the land of opportunity for ALL, not just Alticor/Amway/Quixtar. Shame on anyone who would stand in the way of someone else’s FREEDOM and PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. Those are our rights as guaranteed to us by the US Constitution.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:56 am
I just don’t get why Quixtar just concidered Team’s depth concept “Illegal” until now. The Team has been building their business in that form since 1999. Oh, and it has been the fastes growing organization since then as well. So 9 years of Depth building TEAM style and now they want to say it’s illegal. Something doesn’t add up. Its not just “stacking” its leverage. That’s a true “B”-type Busines. If you don’t know what that means… READ BOOKS ABOUT IT!!! I don’t care if I never make a dime with The Team. Their training system gives you true wealth… YOUR MIND!!! A good example of what’s in your mind is what comes out as words either written or spoken. By the looks
of it in here, some of you need to read more people skill books and business books. I will follow The Team wherever it goes. SPECIALLY TO 1,000,000 people and beyond.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:57 am
I am a frequent visitor but infrequent poster to the Opportunity Zone and followed.a link to this blog. I am not a memeber of Team. I do particpate and utilize the tools that my upline provide that I think benefit my business.
Alticor’s oppening comments are an embarrasment to any one older then 16. This is a business not some kid’s personal My Space blog.No wonder there are no names attached to the corp rep as there is in the O.Z.What mature business person would attach their name to such garbage? In addition I actually agree with something Tex writes. These aren’t blog posts they are novels. There is more pertinant information available in 10 min on the O.Z. then can be waded through here in an hour.
Team is portraying themselved as the defender of the IBO while Quixtar is the one who has just made significant improvements in a their business that benefits the IBO. Whose talking and who is attempting to drag their people into another business so they can make even more money off their downline. Back to the OZ. Hopefully these topics will be discussed in a professional manner instead of the childish tenor that Alticor created here.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:10 am
I recently put my business on hold. I am a platinum on the Team. I couldn’t justify continuing to put people in my business and replace them. I am a person of integrity. I have personally spent time with Orrin Woodward. I know he is a person of integrity as well. I know there is nothing wrong with Team’s training system. But I know that the products were overpriced. I was wondering how this would all shake out. I am starting to see the light. Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady are not stupid men. If they filed a class action suit against Alticor, you can bet it is rock solid. NOTE in the lawsuit it states Team wants nothing from Alticor, accept to leave peacefully. I for one will follow Team’s lead as of the time I read about what was happening I will also be resigning my business. I did not think, a corporation the size of Alticor would be in such grave danger of an implosion, but then again look at Enron, Tyco and list goes on and on. On a counseling session with Orrin, I asked him. What is the difference between me and you Orrin. He said it was the way people think. When I thought like him I would have the business he has. He left me with this. People of integrity expect to be believed, and when they are not. Time will prove them right. Time will prove the integrity of the people involved in Team and the leadership that steers it.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:16 am
109 Bridgett: It would do well to remember that this supposed “ILLEGAL, IMMORAL, UNETHICAL” “stacking” activities were reviewed, analyzed and condoned by Quixtar since TEAM (ToD) started in 1999.
It does not make sense to suddenly say that it is illegal. Did I miss a new law or FTC rule???
August 12th, 2007 at 1:43 am
Wow,I have just spent the last few hrs reading all that has been posted. To say the least these are very emotional, intense times. I have been an IBO for 4years now and have recently been associated with TEAM via my upline for about 4 months now. I don’t pretend to even know all that has or will go on. No one will. I agree with the comment made by both sides to take ownership of your business and know the rules and what you stand for. OWN your business. I do have to comment on what some people are calling ’stacking’… If you show your best friend Mike, he gets in, you show is best freind Sean, he gets in, then his best freind Julie, she gets in, then Mike shows his sister Jen, (here comes decision time…) doe he HAVE TO start a second leg now, because Julie does not know Jen? Or can he keep momentum going, by introducing them and creating a team atmosphere with everyone so that leaders will emerge and that leg is secure. This is a much better way to build instead of, hey throw as much mud agains the wall as you can and see what sticks, then work with them… You wonder why Amway and Quixtar got their bad reputation to begin with, because of the failure rate of building that way… If you have several leaders in a leg rotating the pattern, you WILL have folks that do not know each other sponsoring each other to build that TEAM!! There was way too much of a failure rate building WIDE… Remember Long Term Vision and Delayed Gratification…
I hope everyone involved becomes a stronger business man/woman becaus of this… what does not kill us…
Be blessed
August 12th, 2007 at 1:54 am
#127 Jester…
Rules of Conduct:
“4.25. IBO Plan Manipulation: No IBO shall manipulate the IBO Plan or sales volume, in any way which results in the payment of bonuses or other awards and recognition that have not been earned in accordance with the terms of the IBO Plan and/or the Business Reference Guide.”
Not all stacking is against the rules–for example, it may make sense for family members to be sponsored under each other. But TOTAL strangers?
This method benefits the upline. To say that you can’t sponsor a 2nd leg until you are 20 deep in your first leg?
Quixtar wants to make sure IBOs understand that stacking is optional, and that an IBO with only one leg will not be as profitable as an IBO with multiple legs.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:01 am
TEAM members, my question is, if you don’t use or sell the products and don’t follow the Quixtar comp plan or the rules, then why did you sign up as a Quixtar IBO in the first place?
Or did you not know you were becoming a Quixtar IBO?
Perhaps the timing of TEAM’s lawsuit is in direct relation to Quixtar’s new registration policy announced a week or so ago:
Beginning September 5, 2007, all online new IBO registrations will require that a signed 2008 Registration Agreement be faxed or mailed to Quixtar to complete the process. Quixtar will also provide reminders to new IBOs, their Sponsor, and Platinum after registration to ensure they are familiar with the requirements and timeframe.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:11 am
Rocket (#61),
I get a kick out of you not making a point, as usual.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:18 am
lol most of u people are worried about stacking/depth building… What is moraly wrong with that? everyone helps everyone, no one succeeds alone. There is nothing wrong with depth buliding, it is the best way to produce results/income with the business model given to us by Quixtar.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:21 am
Wow!!!!
First I would like to comment. Tex your weak get off the internet! #49 Kevin thank you # 51 I wish I could join you # 32 your looking threw a Key hole! #55 your right! Think about this folks. # 53 It’s really true, community is it! #65 are you a Platinum? If not shut up! #54 Jim thank you! I’m a new platnium after 19 years, my 1st year by the way and I have to agree with you I have battled with building my group from 100-200+ for years. You have my respect! To set the record stright for all reading I’m not part of TEAM! I’m a out side group looking at this saying to myself this is a sad! Guys, these are real men Of STEEL that the corperation is throwing in the trash. THINK!!!! & Read Orrin’s complaint! When MEN fight when they don’t need to? You must ask WHY? Orrins plan has been approved from many years by the corperation. This is the truth! They didn’t want a new MLM or to leave they whanted change. I know this to be true I have been behind close doors with these leaders. After 19 years you build friendships & know the truth & if you have not build it a 100 wide and deep(as I have, both ways) you don’t have the degree to even repley! # 63 Terri I love you! You have said it all. Everyone Please read #63!!!!!!!!
August 12th, 2007 at 2:30 am
Sorry!!!NOT #63 read #68, TERRI I still love you. Every one please read #68 this is a DIAMOND’s Daughters talking.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:43 am
Two months ago I listened to an old Chris Brady tape. This was when he was with the Yager group. This was a story tape and he spoke about loyalty to Dexter and that he would always be loyal. Most of the diamonds that were terminated spoke about loyalty to Dexter. All of a sudden a few years ago we never saw these diamonds at our functions.
On the other hand, of all of the negative about Q/A I have never seen or read about a bonus check that was earned and not paid by Q/A.
To all of the TEAM members that want to follow these “leaders”, please think about who has the integrity?
Q/A should continue to work on pricing.
However, I choose quality over price. (There are a few products that I complain about)
Maybe the new TEAM MLM will have toothpaste and dog food that is made in China.
I have always been proud to explain that it does not matter when you get in. How can anyone defend stacking?
Great post Bridgett!
August 12th, 2007 at 3:05 am
Oh…. #109 Bridgett (ILLEGAL, IMMORAL, UNETHICAL) This is a sad comentary! The fastest group in Quixtar! Did they not break 3 Diamonds this year & how many Emeralds?? After 19 years I have seen it all. Stop talking lady you have not a thing to say worth hearing.
Folks stop listing to the corperation listen to the truth. OH did i mention I’m Not part of TEAM! Just a voice of what is right! & a Quilfying Platinum & sad of it.
GET THE TRUTH FOLKS! MEN Don’t lose all they have built for a lie!
August 12th, 2007 at 3:37 am
Y’all are FIRED UP.
Nothing like Passion to fuel a discussion or fight.
I hope every IBO understands you are in BONDAGE for 6 MONTHS with Quixtar/Amway whether you quit or are terminated for ANY reason. Where is the FREE Enterprise in that????
In the end, Quixtar is dead and Amway in the US as a multi-level business, that is a joke.
I am a currently Qualified Founders Quixtar Platinum and would rather quit before I would be under the Amway branding. If it would have been www.amway.com instead of Quixtar would YOU have signed up? Why didn’t the corporation do this in Sept. 1999? HUM.
PEOPLE OF INTEGRITY EXPECT TO BE BELIEVED, AND WHEN THEIR NOT, THEY LET TIME PROVE THEM RIGHT.
August 12th, 2007 at 3:58 am
September 1st or shortly thereafter, all IBO’s will be required to lead with Amway. ” Hi _____, can I come show you the Amway business?”
Then after the plan you must give them the new sa-4000 / equivalent brochure. Page 3 has Rich & Jay telling your prospect they are getting in Amway.
I have been in the business for many years and have thousands in Quixtar with me.
I have an offer for you Alticore folks.
I want any Quixtar / Amway ( Mastermind that came up with this brilliant idea ) to call 50 of their friends/family with the “amway” lead.
If you can show the plan and sponsor 5, I will give you my bonus for the year ( $50,000 or so ), If not, you give me your income for the year…. Sound crazy? don’t want to lose your income? Either did I!!!!
The Titanic sunk…
Anyone crazy enough to launch the Titanic II should be required to go down with it!
Thank God there are leaders willing to fight the battle now.
August 12th, 2007 at 3:58 am
when is Quixtar going to protect start protecting the IBOs by cleaning up these rules that protect the system owners. I saw this on you tube http://youtube.com/watch?v=C-gfJOmCgZw
August 12th, 2007 at 4:11 am
theteamisright@yahoo.com
WE ARE WITH YOU ORRIN!!!!
WE ARE PRAYING FOR YOU AND THE LEADERS OF THE TEAM
TO MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR DREAMS.
Thank you Leaders Thank you “ORRIN”
“WHEN THE CRITICS SAID NO MY DESTINY SAID GO”
THE DREAM is Back because of the TEAM
August 12th, 2007 at 4:38 am
I’m with you, Don #128. I’m not going to say that the last [choose a large number of] minutes (or hours) were wasted, but this is obviously a topic close to many people’s hearts.
Let me start off by explaining: I am a member of the Legacy group (i.e., founded by Don & Nancy Wilson) and have been since approx 1993. Unlike Orrin & Laurie, who started roughly the same time as me, I have not built my business actively. When it came time to renew a few years ago, my wife and I decided against it. In October 2006 we heard from our original sponsors about the alignment with TEAM. We heard about TEAM Approach (the practice of building straight down a leg instead of developing individual groups) and DOT1/STEP (Ditto On The 1st/Sip Twice, Eat, Profit). We also heard about the TEAM System. All of these things made logical sense, simply streamlining the things we had been working with before. TEAM Approach gave a way to improve IBO retention by giving IBO’s proof that the Quixtar business plan works. DOT1/STEP helped new IBO’s navigate the thousands of products available to them, giving them the highest value way to meet their monthly volume quotas, preferably by using “anyway money”. And the TEAM System was much more clearly laid out than the one we were using before. All of this has given us hope again that we can get a business built that will help us achieve our dreams.
I mention the above to give those of you who (for your own assuredly valid reasons) dislike TEAM and its leadership a perspective from the other side. The spirit of the “changes” made by the Woodwards and the Bradys are pure, even if the implementation is sometimes less so.
I have read the suit filed by the TEAM leadership and company. I have not specifically confirmed the quoted sections of the Quixtar contract, however, I will trust that the lawyers have done their part and confirmed the veracity of the facts included. One thing which concerns me is that the document makes the claim that Quixtar knew prices were too high to be competitive (later backed up with statements by Quixtar representatives) yet chose not to do anything in order to maintain profits being made by the founding families. Assigning motive for these actions would seem to me to be beyond the scope of this legal document, however, I am not a lawyer.
I believe that this issue has been dealt with poorly by both parties. I have read well-written posts on this page by people from both sides of the argument. Unfortunately, I have also read posts which seem not to have been thought out by the authors before submitting them. Most unfortunately of all, the first of those ill-advised posts is the very blog entry which started it all. Alticor, if you (or your staff) thought that putting the word “informally” at the beginning of this entry entitled you to sling mud without thought of consequence, then you really need to bring in some NEW experts in internet-related socio
I won’t claim to know any (never mind all) the facts in this matter. The history of Quixtar/Amway/Alticore has shown it to be a company of high moral fibre, just as many of the leaders who have parted ways with the company are. And, while I am certain that all of the leaders who have resigned (or had stripped) their IBOships have done things in building their businesses of which they are not proud, the facts put forward in the lawsuit regarding Alticore’s treatment of the Amway Corp., 93 F.T.C. 618(1979) ruling should put those responsible to shame, as well.
I personally believe that all things work for the best, but even so I hope that all involved can weather the storm, regardless of which side they choose.
God Bless,
Richard
August 12th, 2007 at 4:45 am
I originally became an IBO under Billy Florence’s group, DCI, and was excited about that organization becoming a part of TEAM. I have been to all the seminars and National conventions and no where do they encourage or promote disparaging remarks against any MLM company or Alticor/Quixtar/Amway. All TEAM IBO’s within the past 48 hours have been told not to say any disparaging remarks against Quixtar, etc. We are above that and our cause is just and right. Truth will win! Saying anything negative about this business opportunity hurts ALL Quixtar IBO’s, regardless of who their allegience lies! Quixtar changing their name back to AMWAY will also hurt all IBOs and MY own reputation will suffer as a result. The AMWAY name has suffered from a bad reputation for many years. That is why they decided to start Quixtar, in an attempt to hide that they were affiliated with AMWAY Corp! Did they care enough to ask for any IBO’s opinion about the name change? No Now Quixtar is saying they are going to lower prices and invest millions in improvements to make my business more profitable after years of the IBOAI leaders pleas for them to do just that! I’ll only believe it when I see it! Quixtar has been making false promises for years. However, Orrin and all the other IBOAI leaders that resigned as a matter of principle and ethics, have never made any false promises to their TEAMS. Why would other DIAMOND organizations have joined up with TEAM, if they were teaching anything illegal that was not Quixtar or IBOAI approved! Alticor starting this mudslinging HATE blog telling me to GO is going to backfire and hurt them beyond repair! It not only makes them look BAD, it further degrades the already irreputable AMWAY name! What AMWAY/Quixtar/Alticor have done has made it harder for all IBOs to have any credibility! I have not made any money with Quixtar as an IBO, (have lost money) and the only reason I stayed with them was because of the TEAM and what they stand for and the leadership training that has made me a better person and improved other areas of my life. Without the TEAM, I would have left Quixtar a long time ago! I will stay with TEAM because of the leadership training they provide is outstanding and applies to all areas of life, not just Quixtar. If you truly know Orrin, Chris, Billy and the 15 leaders who RESIGNED from Quixtar and the IBOAI Board, then you know truth and integrity.
August 12th, 2007 at 4:57 am
Termination!!
Terminate rather then sit down and resolve issues?
I thought I purchased a business…
I can be terminated at my JOB!
We gotta ask… if the result of TEAM and IBOAI leaders is to protect our interest in a profitable business… would the questions and request to evaluate pricing not benefit all???
How much is my loyalty worth to Quixtar? I want the win-win… knowing that all of my efforts to build a community are jeopardized by termination is socialist since I did the work not Alticor… People of integrity…expect to be believed…
August 12th, 2007 at 5:26 am
Stick with TEAM, I will! OKAY
August 12th, 2007 at 5:46 am
There are rules…and they should be followed!
You SHOULD stop your vehicle when you see a red signal! That’s it! nothing more and nothing less!
May be your frienlly neighborhood policeman hadn’t caught you jumping signals until now - but what if he did now?
or what if he found that he can’t allow you to go on this way anymore?
Products are costly? huh?
Sitting here in India I’m able to sell a considerable amount of products at full retail to my customers in the US!
And mind you! none of them are Indians or of Indian origin!
I’ll call you up someday and ask you if you are open to build an Amway business?
and if you say no, I’ll call your 6 billion cousins and ask them the same question!
Because I believe the products are of value and the oppurtunity is unmatched!
A few nano seconds after I signed up I found out the products were costly!
I had a choice to quit then and there or find out the value they offer!
I guess you did too! I assume that Orrin did too!
why didn’t they quit then?
Alticor is a global corporate entity!
They have a policy - they have to stick to the rules too!
It’s a decision they have taken based on their policies!
Now if Orrin is unhappy - he has gone to the courts for justice - so that’s fair too!
You too have a choice!! Submit your resignation to the corp and just follow the rules and go build any other business you want to!
Both sides might have a valid reason to their actions!
Some might feel betrayed! That’s OK!!
If you are angry on the corp. - that’s OK too!
That’s why Alticor is posting your comments here!
My point is Alticor and Orrin will act in their own interests! I request you should too!
It’s your future! You decide where your future is secure - You decide where you are justified
and then go out and build your future!
This backlash will continue and it’s natural!
But for me after posting this comment I have a plan to show and I believe my prospect will like the new Satinique detangler a lot!
thanx
August 12th, 2007 at 5:57 am
I have been affiliated with AMWAY/QUIXTAR/ALTICOR now for over 10 years. My wife and I are sapphires in the business, and have been interested in TEAM’s growth for the past 5 yrs. NOT YET AFFILIATED.
The resignations are supprising, not all were long time TEAMmates and Why would you terminate #1 growing organization for 8 yrs now? Since they have practiced their “team approach” for the entire time. Why havn’t they terminated everyone who builds any kind of depth? Why havn’t they terminated anyone for purchasing & selling a book or cd? Sounds like a coorporate cover up to me. The name change back to Amway will destroy the business in north america. No one from Quixtar/Amway/Alticore has ever built this business, what do they know? Are they ever going to help you? What if DeVos/VanAndel had to build legs to qualify each month? They would probably quit to! My hat is off to those who risked everthing, not a bunch of employees wetting down one leg to keep a job or a bunch of gut-less billionaire sons who wouldn’t last 1 second in the homes of america building their so called great opportunity. As long as TEAM doesn’t change their name to AMWAY II I think I’m going their direction. By the way their tool business and compensation has been reveiwed by the top MLM attorney in the country. Guess what, passed with flying colors? Imagine what 2 honest guys who don’t care if their kids or themselves ever become billionaires, with the backing of 27 plus years of experience from their friends could do with the money? My bet is I will make more wiht them than QuixWay/Altocor/DEVANDLE.
August 12th, 2007 at 6:03 am
Oh by the way, the title is the best line!
TALKS CHEEP ALTICOR/AMSTAR
IF IT IS GOOD RIDANCE, LET THEIR PEOPLE GO?
IF YOU HAD SUCH A GOOD OPPORTUNITY YOU WOULDN’T NEED A NON COMPETE. NO ONE WOULD WANT TO LEAVE, THERE WOULDN’T BE ANYTHING ANY BETTER OUT THERE!
August 12th, 2007 at 6:59 am
8 IBOAI members resigned - that says something.
Seems like this is the case in a nutshell:
IBOAI members ha previously tried to negotiate a better deal for IBOs. Alticor leadership did not respond in good faith. Reaching an impass several of them approached Alticor asking to leave amicably.
Because their departure is the result of Alticor’s unwillingness to respond in good faith to IBOAI members, they asked that those IBOs who wish leave be allowed to join another MLM.
Alticor’s response has been to terminate 15 top leaders, and hide the real reasons by pointing at Orrin Woodward and saying his business model was the problem.
The issue here is not stacking or tools. THE ISSUE HERE IS THE NON-COMPETE CLAUSE. It seems that Alticor leadership is trying to hide that.
August 12th, 2007 at 7:13 am
I have read the class action and it is obvious that the “TEAM” filed it with malice intent toward the Alticor companies. Apparently trying to do as much damage as possible to the highly respected companies. Probably trying to damage as many business-to-business relationships as possible and trying to make whatever they come up with look better.
Personally comparing Amway products I have found them to be very cost competitive and manufactured to the highest standards. I don’t see how they can call them overpriced when the cost per use is less than the competition.
I have met many people involved in the TEAM and although they were all good people they were taught to build the business improperly. I hope Quixtar continues on it’s path of cleaning house by taking care of these rule of conduct violations as early as possible to avoid damage to new IBOs.
As a stand alone business with no support system except the person who signed you up, the Amway/Quixtar business model is still the best opportunity I have ever seen.
August 12th, 2007 at 7:52 am
If anyone from WorldWide is reading this blog. Be happy we’re not a part of this. Brad Duncan himself said that this should have happened a long time ago (if you’re in his LOS, you got the message).
This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. No doubt Puryear will touch on it at F.E.D.
PS - Jeez, what’s with everyone leaving essay answers. It’s a blog people. It’s supposed to have quick replies.
August 12th, 2007 at 7:59 am
wow,
all this to get a simple problem out in the open so it can get fixed, finally…hopefully
the price points are non competitive, have been for years, please fix ‘em
for the iboai board folks, thanks for doing what we voted you in for.
August 12th, 2007 at 8:06 am
Once again, if these men were men of integrity, why is it a problem to follow the rules and wait the 6 month period? They signed the contract, follow the rules that the contract lays out. They have more than enough money to sustain them for 6 months so this shouldn’t be a problem. If they do not have enough money for this, then they need to get rid of a few of their luxury items that are just wants and not needs. If some of their people want to follow them, then follow the rules laid out in the same contract that you signed. Special treatment is not required just because you have a bunch of money and things.
August 12th, 2007 at 8:58 am
I once attended a rally where Don and Nancy Wilson were the speakers. I had no problem with her, but Don was another story. He was very flippant and condescending. He insinuated that everyone that got in and didn’t go Diamond in five years was an idiot.
I once attended a rally where Randy and Valerie Haugen were the speakers. His way of running his business and training others was great, if you like your life being run by a totalitarian dictator.
I once attended a rally where Billy and Peggy Florence were the speakers. I don’t think Peggy ever had a clue as to what the business was all about. Billy talked as if he had utter contempt for the company and it’s founders. He refused to ever say the company name. He disrespected the business so much that I finally could not stand it anymore and got up and walked out. I think the entire Yager organization feels this way about the business and I am sorry to say I am a part of it.
When I first saw this business, it was Amway. The name meant nothing to me. I was blown away by what I saw. The trouble was, nobody wanted to actually help me get started. All they wanted was to load me up with tapes, books, and function tickets. I had to literally figure out on my own how to build the business. I am not sorry to see any of these people go. Yes, the post was unprofessional. So was the last lawyer I had. So was the last doctor I had. Get over it, get a dream with a deadline on it, order some products (yes, you heard me), sell some products, make a list, and start contacting people. The people that mind don’t matter and the people that matter don’t mind.
August 12th, 2007 at 8:59 am
I will not whine!
I’ll not complain!
I’ll not blame!
But I’ll not stop too - I’ll not stop WORKING!!
Alticor has no system!
Alticor never taught me to deal with people!
Alticor doesn’t teach me time management, wealth management and all other 300 million things my system teaches me!
Then what does Alticor offer?
An oppurtunity that has stood the test of time!
Then what does Alticor offer?
a simple tenet : Freedom, Family, Hope and Reward!
I don’t know what it offers more!
I have read many books from my system - but I still like ‘Compassionate Capitalism’ a lot!
I have heard a lotta tapes from my system - but I like the ‘Four Winds’ by Rich DeVos!
I saw a lotta of leaders but I never saw anyone like Rich and Jay!
Everytime we offer this oppurtunity to others we must remember that we are holding their dreams, their aspirations and their hopes in our hands!!
And I believe that’s big responsibility - much bigger than these systems or prices or tools or all the negative out there!
At such times I don’t want our hands to tremble!
So keep the focus on bigger issues and outgrow all the petty ones!
If I have to choose between a man and the God who made that man, I’ll always choose God!
If I have to choose between Alticor and the leaders Alticor created, guess whom I’ll choose?!!!
August 12th, 2007 at 9:37 am
This is obviously a very passionate time for all IBO’s of Quixtar. I personally have been involved in the Team business for over 2 years. When I saw the business plan I google searched The Team and read the all garbage online about ALL the Quixtar organizations. It was very clear….overpriced products and the tool business were the issues. The “stacking ” issue is a Quixtar issue not an FTC issue. As a matter of fact it was condoned until The Team became the dominate organization in Quixtar. Everyone needs to read the lawsuit The Team filed. If in fact The Team has evidence that the leaders of Quixtar said those statements, then Quixtar is in violation of THEIR 1979 FTC agreement. This could be the undoing of Quixtar because of THEIR actions. I personally would not want to be part of an organization who admittedly keeps the prices inflated to pad the pockets of the Billionaire owners at my expense! It’s all about integrity!
August 12th, 2007 at 10:50 am
In response to Bridget 129
” Not all stacking is against the rules–for example, it may make sense for family members to be sponsored under each other. But TOTAL strangers?”
In my situation in post 128, total strangers would be beneath each other… if you went with the logic of every person has to have known the person sponsoring them prior to being in this business, there would be no depth. Let me know if you don’t understand my example in post 128: when you have several leaders building a team all at once, you will have people that are just meeting for the first time sponsoring each other.
“This method benefits the upline. To say that you can’t sponsor a 2nd leg until you are 20 deep in your first leg?”
The Team does not teach this AT ALL!!
“Quixtar wants to make sure IBOs understand that stacking is optional, and that an IBO with only one leg will not be as profitable as an IBO with multiple legs.”
The Team teaches to make sure ALL new IBOs know all materials and building structures are suggestions… not mandatory…
I hope I have cleared up some confusion…
Orrin and Chris took a system that was working ok and made it work great, and has benifited more people now than ever before.
They took a tools business, brought it out of ‘darkness’ as something you did not talk about, (where the system owners and Diamonds and above made all the $$, the rest very little)… into the open, because it is the most fair out there. There hearts are right, wanting to take this great business and idea and making it main stream… to do this changes are needed…
August 12th, 2007 at 10:56 am
Perhaps, in the sea of confusion and name calling we will remember that a successful a timely solution is required to assure the future of many people within the Quixtar/Alticor family. For both sides of the argumment.
Splitting hairs with name calling, finger pointing, and blaming has never solved anything. We need the two parties involved to sit down and try to resolved this quickly as there are who’s future are on the line.
Again, it would be best if both sides sit down early next week to open the lines of communication before this disagreement get’s any uglier and any more people are hurt.
August 12th, 2007 at 11:12 am
This whole situation is extremely unfortunate for all of us and could get very messy, depending in large part on our focus and behavior. We are in a fishbowl of public opinion, and every word spoken here is spoken to MILLIONS of people, both in our business and outside it. Currently, most of us seem to be doing what the departed diamonds are depending on us to do–defending our positions LOUDLY and expressing opinions with only the barest amount of information to base them on–opinions that become translated as facts in the much larger court of public opinion. We have been down that road before and suffered for it. The questions we ought to be asking are:
$$ Why was this exodus timed as it was? The lawsuit wasn’t drawn up while they were all sitting at the IBOAI table, this was the result of calculated planning over a number of months.
$$ What would they gain by using “uncompetitive pricing” as the basis for the suit? could it be that the bruhaha that ensues will create the perception of overpriced Q* merchandise that will pre-empt the impact of the new pricing from Q* and work in favor of the new MLM? ?????
$$ What did TEAM have to lose by staying? Well, if you read the fine print at the bottom of the now published QBI on the site, you will see that accreditation is one of the requirements. If you also read the Quixtar Communication Platform that all accredited teams have to adhere to (http://www.quixtaraccreditation.com), could it be that some of those things would present a problem for the TEAM organization and leadership??
That said, the lawsuit has very little to do with the stated complaints, and everything to do with intelligent, well-timed and well-calculated positioning to put themselves (TEAM) in the best light, and keep us all from looking below the surface.
I, for one, would welcome ALL remaining TEAM IBO’S to hang in there with the rest of us, seek accreditation, and reap the rewards you so richly deserve!
We should all now be remembering the POWER OF THE POSITIVE in our words to transform our lives. I propose that we all stop participating in negative conversation, to avoid the backlash that will inevitably come. We all love this business, and the personal and financial rewards it brings with it–it’s time to strengthen the ties that bind and move forward shining our own light!
“If you think you know everything, you haven’t asked enough quesions!”
August 12th, 2007 at 11:44 am
It wasn’t the stacking that was illegal, it was how TEAM was doing it. They registered complete strangers on top of each other, who never met each other.
The part about “positioning” was TEAM taking credit for what Quixtar does.
I don’t know exactly what the tool issues were, but it appears the tools shown to prospects weren’t Quixtar approved, which is against the rules.
TEAM knows it will take less time to get out for 2 years and then prospect their IBO’s than go through the court system. All they wanted to do is create a wedge with Quixtar, hoping they would cave in. When Quixtar called TEAM’s bluff, they went to plan B and started the lawsuit.
Show me a TEAM blog, or any other tool system blog for that matter, that will take input from all sides of the conversation and display for all to see. THAT should tell you who is on solid ground, and it isn’t TEAM or the other tool systems.
August 12th, 2007 at 11:46 am
Friends and colleagues,
For those who are relying on a reading of what’s claimed or stated the Complaint to make a decision, may I suggest a contemplative read of Proverbs 18:17: “The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.”
I know this can be applied both ways, and that’s fine. Over the past few years I’ve done a lot of depth research related to the claims made in Complaint, and all I would advise is don’t be too hasty to resign your busineses… wait at least until your renewal comes up at the end of the year. Give this enough time to be able to clear personal emotions away from your final decision, and base it on ALL the facts and developments in the public domain by the end of the year.
You’ve got nothing to lose by being careful, thoughtful and patient in your due diligence… even if you think you already know enough.
Blessings,
August 12th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
STOP. Read and answer two questions. For all of you that keep bringing up the rules issues, while you’re right, keep in mind:
1) If Alticor has the power to enforce a restraining order, or to enforce rule-breaking, then why has it continued to ignore blatant continous bad business practice from other teams? Did you know some organizations preach religion, endorse politics, require system kits with startup, etc.
and
2) Ask yourself if TEAM is being made an example of and wether the bad practice from other teams will continue to be ignored.
Woodward doesn’t have the history with the corporation that some of the older people might.
I have nothing against a system, and nothing against Quixtar, but I wish systems wouldnt’ use psychological warfare tactics, and that Quixtar wouldn’t ignore complaints.
I’m excited about the transformation process, and I hope in 4-6 months there’ll be a new truly fresh begining.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Ok, short answers with no-malice.
The IBOAI was voted in by all IBOs as a collective to protect our interests independant of the corporation. Much of that power has been neutered over the years where the corporation can veto anything they say.
The IBOAI had a problem with the dealings of the corporation, and now they have been terminated…please just think about that and realize where that leaves each of you, regardless of where you sit on this heated issue.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
Oh and one more thing. Why is it that this transformation that is being touted as the best thing for the business was never communicated to the IBOs from the corporation? Even though it drastically affects my business, I had no idea it was happening until this all blew up. Doesn’t sound like dealings with great integrity to me…
August 12th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
wow - this is nuts. Has no one ever done a price comparison? I have them in black and white - and the Access Business Group products consistantly BLOW away the store bought ones - even from WalMart! AND - comparing SA8 to Tide is not apples to apples - SA8 SHOULD be compared to the enviro friendly brands! If you do that it’s even a bigger savings with the Access Business Group products!
I’m excited that Amway/Quixtar is not taking this lying down - the slander of calling this a Pyramid after so many years of Orinn and others being involved…. I can tell you from first hand experience - the people at the top do NOT make all the money! It’s the people who do the work! Unless of course you don’t create your business legitimately and you involve yourselves in illegal STACKING - hmmmm - maybe you should be tried for CREATING an illegal system of “business” and lying to others to benefit yourselves.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
#158 YankeeIBO…
When you say, “we all love this business”, it made me think, “which business?”
The TEAM’s business is not the Quixtar business. That’s the issue.
So again, I ask, as I did in #130, why did the members of TEAM sign contracts with Quixtar when becoming IBOs? If they are not going to follow the rules, then I don’t get it.
If they aren’t going to use and sell the products, then why be a part of the Quixtar opportunity?
Why did the founders of TEAM use Quixtar for purposes that it wasn’t intended?
That is the Quixtar business. We use and sell products. If that’s not the business the TEAM wants to be a part of that’s fine.
If the founders of TEAM would have quit the Amway/Quixtar business years ago, stayed inactive for six months, and then started their leadership/motivation business, we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now.
Instead, they are going for the drama—for speculations that you state in your comment.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
There are 3 sides to every story. In this case, TEAM, Alticor/Quixtar/Amway, and the TRUTH which lies somewhere in between all this mud slinging and miscommunication. The resolution is simple…TEAM and it’s downline want out. You, Alticor, by your own words want to see them out. FINALLY…an agreement! Doesn’t sound like a problem to me. Let them go and get down to the business you say you handle with integrity. If their downline wants to support you in the future…they can find a diamond organization they would like to reup with…don’t contact them, it’s not your responsibility by your own rules of conduct. Remember, they are INDEPENDENT business owners. Let them make their own decisions. My family have been devote product user even though the products ARE over priced. However, based on this slinging campaign of yours our impressions of your company have changed. Therefore, our LOS is cancelling thier ditto order effective immediately. If more IBO’s do that, perhaps you will see the effects of your unprofessionalism in the only way the Devos and VanAndle families can comprehend….$$$$$$’s. Also, do NOT contact me directly as it is against the rules.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
To all you Quixtar loyals I suggest you wake up. Some of the things I have been reading have obviously have been written by ibo’s that have not been out showing the plan.It sounds more to me like someone who is defending a bad decision.Orrin and Chris and the other leaders are not on a personal quest. They went in to improve conditions for ALL ibo’s.When I persnally show plans the thaught of mentioning Am-Way is the death gargle of the plan.Quixtar/Am-Way built that reputation not Orrin and Chris.I have been on the TEAM for 2 years and I have never seen anything to be ashamed of.What I know for sure is that I constantly have to answer for all of the scamway reports everybody has heard of never TEAM. I beleive that Am-Way is drinking a leathal dose of poisen by telling us to leave.If you want us to leave let us go now.When this over the TEAM will still be standing, but I am not so sure about Am-Way.I believe with Quixtar out of our way we will go to tens of millions of people.AS joe said LETS GO!!!!!
August 12th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
#131 Tex
I think a whole bunch of points I’ve been saying for the past 5 years have been validated in the past few days.
It is you who needs to re-evaluate things. Do you understand all this?
Do you understand the implications?
August 12th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
Just finished rereading our history and how we fought off England with their ideas of contolling our free trade with the world. If England would have communicated and not controled we would never had, had to sink their tea boat, and thus avoided the loss of many lives.
Quixtar is not lead by free enterprisers anymore, they are run by lawyers, who love going to court, because thats what they do….Where have all the leaders gone, they are not staying in a broken business, their gone…..
August 12th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Coming from Team5K, we were the 2nd accredited team in Quixtar which was a 2 year process. I believe Chuck was helping TEAM with that. Our leader was of integrity and well thought of by Quixtar as were the others on the TEAM. These were not just everyday Diamonds.
Why would they do this? They have a dream with a belief so strong and so burning that they are willing to risk everything they have in terms of freedom, monetarily and reputation in order for the CHANCE to pursue it. How many of us can say we built the business with that intensity. To me, that is what being Diamond is about. Did they do it for greed? I think not. I believe where they promised to take us wasn’t working with Quixtar. I don’t know about you, but Quixtar wasn’t my dream, just the results. I believe the companies opinion is pretty much stated in the title of this blog; “Just Go, Team”. That means all of us that are on the TEAM. (Kind of sounds like a release to me)
This is about all of our dreams and freedom. I ask you this question. Are we going to be “Border Bully’s” in their quest for the dream or are we going to be champions and help them through the “Land of Giants”. There is not one of them that would ever leave us in tough times.
History has shown when times get tough for leaders; their followers will often leave them to the wolves. Not this time, just tell me when and where Chuck.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Interesting that folks think only an upline benefits from using Team approach to business building (a concept that is described in SA-4400 Team, copyright 2007 Quixtar Inc with CR #17851)
Would someone care to explain how official Quixtar form prepared for Team use be construed as “illegal practices”? The mothership condoned it, folks! If the ONLY place it is deemed “illegal” is in Corporate documentation crafted to protect the self-same party at the expense of the other - be very careful calling that “illegal” …
Wonder how Corp will feel about having their current “standard Operating Practices” held up to the earlier findings … like self reporting of customer volume to meet the 10 client rule … and where did the “approval” for $100 sales or 50PV sales come under same scrutiny …
Interesting that Corp chooses to pull the slapperoo in month # 12 of FY qualification isn’t it? For those who don’t comprehend what that means, it affects all Q-12, Emerald, Diamond, growth and other bonuses used to incentivize higher level pins to continue to grow their communities — the ONE area that Quixtar really does NOT have a handle on. Where will the money from bonuses “confiscated” end up?
Is this the finance of the expanded FY08 QBI program?
I’ve heard it said time and again that width creates immediate profitability and depth produces long term security. Dexter Yager became the largest IBO by perfecting depth techniques suitable for the business opportunity that existed when he was in active building mode … to facilitate product pickup and downline distribution, having only a few folks come to pickup at each level made 6-4-2 (later 9-4-2 & 9-6-3) a workable system, albeit tedious.
Now, direct delivery to each IBO makes the concept unneeded - if you had to move product hand to hand through 50 levels of depth, it might take months to accomplish.
Techniques change - principles remain.
Letting someone who changes buying habits receive what amounts to a growing personal rebate will prove the community building works, and they can develop a second organization (and beyond) to improve profitability - meantime they can hone their interpersonal skills while they apprentice in depth with the leader … show me exactly how increasing their personal rebate is a bad thing?
When someone says only the leader profits from depth, I’d simply ask … who benefits from going 20 wide, and creating a structure that cannot be supported for long? Could that be why many folks who were sponsored in a width blitz fail? To the tune of 87%, say? Would those folks have a “bad taste” in their mouth?
Continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results - is the definition of what?
Take a look at sales growth figures for last 4 years in NA, and couple that with Corp’s figures on retailed products % — you’ll understand why the bile was spewed from Ada.
In closing — Rich and Jay started their Ada enterprise whet it became clear that their supplier was not acting in their best interests. Who would have benefited from a non-compete clause unilaterally inserted in the last months of their existing contracts? You know the answer.
Whatever happened to the concept of Compassionate Capitalism and letting the best idea win in the Free Enterprise system?
If Corp didn’t think there might be another idea more acceptable to the marketplace, do you think they’d be as vituperative?
August 12th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Bridgett–#165
That’s exactly the point I am making in my third question. If they would not or could not be approved for accreditation, then the entire organization is cut off from the new QBI. How do you think that was going down at the top, knowing they would have to tell their downline why they are left out in the cold when it comes to all the new money?
The accreditation provision is a major move on the corp’s part to address the issue of rules violations by trying to get voluntary compliance without having to resort to terminations–that step is an absolute last resort, BECAUSE of the potential it has to create negative PR among outsiders who don’t know enough about our business to evaluate the issues fairly–as well as insiders in the same position.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
My favorite part of the lawsuit is on page 17/18 regarding an email Orrin sent Rob Davidson on April 6, 2006:
“Our team is going crazy with XS and the protein bars due to competitive price and value.”
The team was going crazy because the products are EDIBLES. High consumption rate, able to show in public, appealing to everyone (man, woman, and child).
Not because of the pricing.
XS Energy Drink is not competitively priced with other “energy drinks”. It appeals to those that want a high-quality product.
And the protein bars are not competitively priced–the old or current ones.
Kind of funny (and revealing) that the two products Orrin singles out as being competively priced (and that his TEAM was moving), when the whole lawsuit is claiming over-priced products are the problem.
(Good thing the Corp. offers 1,000+ of products to choose from–and not just one or a handful like other companies. Buy and sell what works for you, and leave the rest on the shelf.)
August 12th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
I have read posts on this blog with interest, and honestly, some sadness. Sadness for the “tape/CD speak” I hear coming through loud and clear. I sincerely hope at some point that these people who have been manipulated by the Tool Pushers realize that products are not hard to buy if you haven’t first given all of your money to a “system” where only the top of the heap make money. It is simple to do the math; how many IBO’s versus how many made it to the “top” of the tool business?
This is my opinion.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
sorry if anyone has already responded to #130..
Members of the TEAM have been doing that for over a year now. We wanted to be strict about it in relation to the way we build. Only platinums and above can input registrations and they will not do it until the paperwork is signed and faxed.
Also, in response to #18 and #79..
I had actually spoken directly with Bo Short about his decision to leave Quixtar. Has anyone else done that. Anyway, the facts are that while he might have been right about pricing issues with Quixtar, he lied in reference to the amount of profits the TEAM makes on the tool side of the business. Not one person outside the TEAM knows anything about how tool compensation works in TEAM. You would have admiration for these leaders if you only knew. You would also admire them for what they are doing and ultimately follow them to creating the largest retailer in the country. But maybe you wouldn’t… because your just like Amway.. you’re only concerned about becoming the pharaoh of your own pyramid instead of building a TEAM in which everyone shares in the profits. ..just my opinion.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
What would happen if every IBO who has become entrenched in the “tool system” really stopped and thought this whole issue through? Do yourself a favor tonight; take 2 hours, and just add up the money, time, and expense for all of your “training system”, then be honest with yourself; have you made any profit? If you aren’t getting money from tools by being in the profit sharing plan, your answer is obvious.
Lastly, the thing that really stuck in my craw was the reference to Moses, saying to the Pharoah “let my People go.” How dare they get God mixed up in this; they aught to be ashamed of themselves for that!
August 12th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
When I found out about the termination of Orrin Woodward and other TEAM members from the e-mail that Quixtar sent to me I called Quixtar. The woman that answered the call informed me of the situation. In the conversation she said it was for illegal stacking, that for some time the business material was not being okay with Quixtar and that they were portraying Quixtar as part of the TEAM’s business and not the other way around.I also asked about the name change to Amway. She confirmed it. I am against it. I would not have become an IBO if it was called Amway when I became an IBO. Years ago my brother was an Amway IBO. He approached me and I refused because of the stigma that Amway has. When I showed the plan, many people asked me if this was Amway and that if it was then they were not interested. You have to have known for some time of their activities. The Tuesday night meetings along with the monthly seminars and quarterly seminars have not changed since I became an IBO about one year ago. From people that I have talked to they have been the same for years. As long as the money was rolling in you kept quiet. You were complicate in their actions. Because of you not informing me in a timely manner of their possible wrong doings my reputation and business as an IBO are at stake. I reserve the right to stay an IBO with Quixtar or join another MLM business if I so choose without having to wait the 6 month waiting period
August 12th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Ditto 133
August 12th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
The facts!
Team plantiffs assert that Quixway has been operating an illegal pyramid since the late 90’s.
Why didn’t they tell us! GREED!
Seminar after seminar we were told this was the greatest business on the planet, it was going mainstream, that it was exploding, well it’s exploded all right….in the faces of these plantiffs.
How many millions of dollars did these plantiffs collect while knowing full well the business was illegal?
(supposedly)
They didn’t have any trouble cashing those checks for many years…while signing new people up in an illegal business.
Cars, houses.diamond rings …all bought in part with money recieved through an illegal pyramid??
Give to ceasar what is ceasar, are these men of God or men of gold?
What are these leaders going to do with all of their ” ill gotten gains”.
Are they still cashing those fat Quixtar checks?
WWJD?
Pricing issues?..We were taught by these same plantiffs ….The prospect that questions prices ” doesen’t understand the business” and was laughed at as they drove away. “Prices are irrelevant….the question is can you get rich doing this: is the battle cry on Consumer Rebellion.
August 12th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Wow. I never thought that I was associated with a company that would post such a playground statement as this one. I am extremely dissapointed and ashamed as a result Quixtar’s lack of character and decency. Don’t you understand that millions of people have been edifying the corporation everyday? You must have someone at the company that could generate a more responsible comment than that! You should be ashamed of yourselves! The educational system alone has been so beneficial and empowering to my family and I, and has made my life much better to say the least. On the other hand, some of the highly over priced products haven’t had the same affects. Finally, to all of the great, genuine, hard-working people with their hearts in the right place, better things will come of this astonishing development. Lower the prices on some of the exclusives!
August 12th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
Many people are saying that this is a violation and some say that this is a about time… Why do Team and other groups start and then get so much traction? Well, knowing of Dexter Yeager and those pioneering types like him, I am astounded that such a vitriolic letter was posted by a corporation of one of its top sales groups.
Dexter’s story is famous. He didn’t get any “help” (no, a couple high color pamphlets is not really help, come on…) building his “business” (how can it really be called a business if you can be ‘terminated’, whew, there goes more credibility…) especially from Amway/Quixtar. He was told to go and sell and make US rich… He was/is a GREAT saleman. BUT, it was obvious to him that he could help more people if they could but be trained. So train he did. And he became legendarily successful. There was profit from training? And then? There is, and should be, payment for good training anywhere. McDonald’s is astoundingly successful ONLY because they train like no other!
So, because of Quixtar/Alticor’s lack of direction or ability to duplicate success, groups like TEAM and Orrin Woodward – out of desperation - create huge organizations with tremendous sales results. Sales? Yes, Sales. Walmart, the greatest retailer ever, only advertises to ME and I go purchase what I need. So, if TEAM advertises to TEAM and they purchase what they need, is that wrong with that model? To the tune of $7+ Billion for Alticor? Amway/Quixtar/Alticor’s bad name will always stick, and it is the fault of the corporation no matter what slick face they try to paint on the slick surface. Because they negligently leave it up to me and the other Average Joe’s to flounder around and try to help ourselves