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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
August 10th, 2007 @ 3:59 pm ET…
Just go, Team
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
We terminated Orrin Woodward yesterday, along with several other leaders of his field organization, named Team. We’ll post our formal statement when it’s ready. Informally, here’s the story:
We terminated Orrin Woodward for philosophical reasons. We did it for legal reasons.
But the main reason we did it is because the way Orrin Woodward ran his organization was a disgrace to every person who’s ever tried to build a Quixtar or Amway business the right way.
We have fought to clean up the reputation of our company for years. We know that one of the biggest challenges our reputation faces is misrepresentation of the Quixtar and Amway businesses to others.
And over the last several months, it became clear to us that Orrin Woodward was a poster child for a long list of bad business practices that our critics hate about our company. The other leaders we terminated – including Chris Brady, Billy Florence, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Tim Marks and Chuck Goetschel – also showed they were unwilling to reform.
Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could.
Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.
Telling people that Quixtar was merely a “supplier,” and not the company they were signing a contract with? Yup.
We’d told Woodward we had problems with the way he ran his business for years, and we worked methodically to bring those problems to resolution. We got ignored, we got lied to, and, boy, we got the runaround.
So in the end, yesterday, we tried to give him one last chance to reform.
He didn’t even want to hear his options. So we terminated him. And in return, he handed us a trumped-up, trash-talking lawsuit on his way out the door. In response, we have a temporary restraining order issued by a court that prevents him from looting the business as he seeks to take his act to a new company.
So he’s gone, and so are others. We are doing our best to repair the relationships Orrin Woodward damaged and protect the businesses of the people in his organization that Orrin Woodward betrayed. And we will continue building our business with thousands of people who know how to build it the right way.
We would say we were sorry to see Orrin Woodward go. But only if that were true.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
1087 Responses to “Just go, Team” (1001 - 1087 shown)
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] Show All
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] Show All
August 30th, 2007 at 12:33 am
The term terminated in posting 999 meant the position at the corporation only.
August 30th, 2007 at 12:45 am
I’m trying to be #1,000 and we can close out this thread.
Actually, I’ve been away from this thread for a few days.
Shocking, huh Bruce #980.
Oh Bruce, by the way, I have read the Magic of Thinking Big. Two or three times. And, *newsflash*, the “TEAM Leadership Program” is not the only place to get a copy, or where it’s “recommended reading”, like many of the books the TEAM members continue to recommend on this blog to us non-TEAM IBOs, thinking that there aren’t other LOAs in exisitence.
TEAM IBOs make up 15% of all Quixtar IBOs.
So there are 85% of us “outsiders”.
August 30th, 2007 at 2:20 am
Bridgett:
TEAM being 15% of IBOs is misleading. That was true BEFORE the other organizations represented by Billy Florence, Chuck Goetschel, Bill Newton and Randy Haugen. To put it in perspective after eight years of Quixtar the total number of diamonds in North America will fit into a ballroom with tables, about 200 or so diamonds. (See Chuck Goetschel’s post on crazy world or freetheibo.com). Randy Haugen alone brought about 30 diamonds with him and the others mentioned are legends as well. Don’t know if that makes it 40%, but I do know that 15% number used by Q is only Orrin & Chris’s organization. Probably much closer to 40% than 15%.
August 30th, 2007 at 2:38 am
Tex:
Keep checking to see if you got an answer as to whether or not Q has been keeping all the leaders of the large organizations we all would recognize from disclosure about tools to new people. Really beginning to wonder. Here’s a little inside I haven’t heard anyone comment on yet. I’m sure you saw the post from Mike Mohr to DJ Poyfair where Mike Mohr accused him of leaving out some facts. The truth is those facts were already posted on the TEAM website, and DJ Poyfairs post was in response to 75,000 emails sent out to TEAM members saying they would be in violation of a court order if they participated in the TEAM system, when in fact the court order only prevents the use or sale of those items covered in Q’s rules which are prospecting materials, and those having to do with the marketing plan. The court order specificly says TEAM members can still attend events and use any general information tools. Mike Mohr misrepresented that and makes no mention, and neither does Q, that at least 10 restraining orders have been issued across the contry including two in federal court. On this issue the spin is definately on the side of Q.
By the way, with a name like Tex was wondering if you are a Cowboy fan? I think we disagree on this post, but maybe we have something in common there.
August 30th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
BA #1000/1,
As I’ve said before, I appreciate the plain talk. There’s been far too much “double air kiss while I stab you behind your back” talk going on. Very refreshing, let’s get REAL.
JUST GO, TEAM.
Bridgett #1002,
You just missed being 1000, but your points are on target.
Makingadifference #1003/4,
We’ll have to see how many of the TEAM, Legacy and 5K folks stay or go. Looks pretty shaky for Orrin and Co. right now. He won’t have much influence over the expected lawsuit delays, and most IBO’s literally can’t afford to “hang” (double meaning) with him for very long.
No answer on the Quixtar prohibition on the tool profit issue. I’m not impressed by the lack of an answer, either (put that in your “Is Tex an employee?” equation).
Actually, I’m a Colts fan. Have been since the Johnny Unitas days, still think he is the best QB of all time. It was a long wait for another Super Bowl. One of the tapes I enjoyed early on was the Tim Foley “Our Story” tape (before his divorce from Connie), where he talks about pretending to be Johnny U. as a child, throwing the football around in the yard. Been there, done that.
August 30th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Monette: We did receive your comment, which was a copy of a personal letter from you to Steve and Doug earlier this week. Two reasons why we can’t post it as-is: it’s lengthy, and since you’ve already sent it to their attention via direct email, it wouldn’t be appropriate to republish it here.
However, you are more than welcome to jump in on the conversation on this and other posts around our blog.
August 30th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Tex 998
Its Still a bogus reason for firing them, because it would be impossible for the corporation have specific knowledge of each time an IBO is stacked weather or not it was done legitimately..
Also on the tool issue since there are no published numbers on what the bsm profits are in other distributor organizations profit margins are likely similar. the prices I have seen that team was charging are the same prices i pay for the same things, unless my upline is dumb enough to pay alot more for the production of these materials then the profits must be about the same..Only team probably sold far greater quantities which is also why they have grown so much faster. i was taught from day one that PV growth always followed tool flow growth and attendance at functions.
Lastly, TEAM also accounted for a massive amount of product volume as well, ibo’s involved with team were every bit as profitable on thier quixtar business as were other similar pins in other organization, so in reality their profit from tools did not come at an expense of the itegrity of quixtars sales and marketing plan but rather added to the profitability of a network by compensating people to train thier teams to a far greater degree, which was proven by thier massive growth. Quixtar, now Amways problem is that there exists a demonstrated non-viability of the plan apart from tools and training, and have begun resorting to a managing from a position of authority mentality that has lacked the transparency, and the Character that were part of the core values of the corporation under Rich and Jay. There is without a doubt a different agenda under the current Q/A Management. At the end of the day they have shown themselves to be no different than any other company we could be terminated by.
August 30th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Conan_78: We’d prefer not to copy large chunks of text from other blogs (yes, including our own) on the comments. Mind providing direct links, along with your own words, instead?
August 30th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
Folks: We’ve blown past a thousand here, and we’re staying up. Comments for this post are broken into chunks of 100. Hopefully this helps, but chime in with any browser issues nonetheless.
August 30th, 2007 at 7:19 pm
frank #1007,
You would have a minor point if that was the only reason given for terminating them. Even then, if they refused to discuss what Quixtar saw as inappropriate stacking, what choice did Quixtar have? They don’t need to know how every single IBO was registered, just enough to see a pattern.
That is my main point, the tools are priced similarly, so TEAM is far from alone on the high tool profit issue. But this episode has added to our knowledge, as Ron and Chuck have confirmed what Andy Andrews said in the TIF video on youtube, the corp has instructed them not to reveal the level of tool profits. Another blogger has stated the typical TEAM Platinum makes twice as much from tools than Quixtar, probably as a result of lower profit because of the extreme stacking. So, the cat is now out of the bag, and it is time (past time, actually) for full tool profit transparency.
I was taught, and bought, the same “tools before PV” line. I hope by now everyone understands this practice has done more to destroy the reputation of Amway and Quixtar than any other single issue.
As noted above, it appears the average Quixtar profit of the extreme stacking is much less than the width models, which only better reveals the tool profit issue. Thanks, Orrin.
If massive growth comes from breaking the rules, I’m not impressed. Do you remember the Boston Marathon with Rosie Ruiz? That is what her name will be forever known for, far past the end of her life. Good job, Orrin “Rosie” Woodward. I’m sure you made your parents proud.
August 30th, 2007 at 9:30 pm
Hi everyone,
Lively debates are great, they allow us to see things from different perspectives, however personal attacks are not helpful and are often hurtful, and they do nothing to help one’s cause in trying to help others see our perspective.
Emotions are high, we all are sensitive to what has been happening of late, but let’s keep it civil.
That includes this topic “Just go, Team” and accompanied comments posted by the Alticor Media Blog moderator who posted them. Would it not have been better to title it “Woodward and other IBOs terminated for rules violation“. (While not as sensational, it wouldn’t be inadvertently misread as to referencing the IBOs associated with Team).
While the comments may have been specifically directed towards Woodward and the other IBO leaders that were terminated, many of the IBOs who are part of the Team organization obviously felt they were also being singled out and were understandably offended by it. I think a reposting with an apology seems appropriate.
While I do not agree with the actions of Woodward, Brady and the other IBO leaders who were terminated for violating the rules of conduct and their subsequent filing of the lawsuit in CA; I also do not believe it’s right for anyone to say insulting things about any specific IBO or an organization, be it those IBOs who are part of Team, Legacy, Team5k or any other organization.
If an individual says something you don’t agree with, fine, say so – but don’t attack them personally.
We may not agree on all aspects; however we all chose to start our own Quixtar IBO businesses of our own free wills, (regardless of which support organization we are also affiliated with), and we agreed to uphold the principles for which it is based on, including the rules of conduct.
If we disagree, there are ways to discuss and find consensus – however, just because we don’t agree with the outcome does not mean we can then choose to violate them and cast insults, and inaccurate remarks.
Sincerely,
Ros
August 31st, 2007 at 9:57 am
Ros,
No, it wouldn’t have been as good of a headline. It would have sounded too much like a corporate stuffy shirt announcement.
Just Go, TEAM, was perfect. It drew attention. Anyone who can read on a 3rd grade level would know they weren’t talking about all TEAM IBO’s, just the ones who wanted to break the rules.
We’ve become far too PC to communicate effectively. Thanks Alticor, for laying it out clearly in plain terms.
Just Go, TEAM.
August 31st, 2007 at 10:20 am
Is there not anyone on this blog OTHER than TEX, I just scroll past his comments anymore, BORING, HEARD THAT!!!!!!
August 31st, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Going to a Million!!!!
I believe its possible TEAM but you have a lot of work to do-
In total there are 44 users online :: 7 registered, 0 hidden and 37 guests
You can only get 7 people blogging during friday at lunch on your forum…. its not very intimidating.
They could have about 20 users at time but the freetheibo forum moderator terminates and banned all the users that don’t agree with everying that that TEAM Leadership passes down the pipline.
I have seen other tims where only 4 registered users are online.
September 1st, 2007 at 1:09 am
The issue that keeps being ignored by the TEAM people is, why you were recruited into the Quixtar business?
As I’ve mentioned before, I am an Independent, not part of a System. However, I was part of a System for several years.
I don’t believe any System recruits based on the prospect joining a personal development business. That is the argument made by many in this thread: e.g., Chris [#919] states, “. . . personal development is the key to a quality of life higher than that which anyone has. My involvement with this business has taught me the value of personal development and I have learned that the more I do the better my life gets and the more money I make in everything that I do.”
There is no doubt that personal development can be a good thing, and many people benefit from it.
But what were you recruited in to?
You joined the Quixtar business, a business of selling products and services made or supplied by Access Business Group. The Quixtar business, where the income representation and lifestyle was deemed to have come from the sales of Quixtar products and services.
During your recruitment, the training system was most likely mentioned as a support system that would help you build the business. Since you as the new recruit doesn’t know anything about this business, and colleges and universities don’t teach courses on the subject, you don’t have any framework from which to judge the training system you’ve just been introduced to. But recall that you recruited into the Quixtar business, and any business involves the sale of a product or service.
[to be continued]
September 1st, 2007 at 1:10 am
[continued from previous post]
So members of TEAM, look back at your training. Did you start with product training, or were you instructed to make a list of names and call people about your business before you knew the first thing about the business and the products that make it up?
WIDREAMBOY [#996] talks about how Snap-On Tools made a profit on the tools they sold him as a new auto mechanic. That is well and good, and I agree, that Snap-On deserves to make a profit. Those tools you bought were in direct support of your job as a mechanic, and you knew that as you bought the tools.
Are the tools you buy for your Quixtar business in direct support of the business you were recruited into? Or, are they supporting other causes or objectives that you were introduced to after joining the business? Or, do you even know what kind of tools are needed to build this business?
What about fundamentals such as getting and keeping a customer? Have you received training in this area? Many Quixtar products lend themselves to demonstration as part of the selling process. Do you’re your training meetings have product demonstrations at every meeting? Or are product sales (not just personal use, which only provides meaningful financial benefit to those at 15% and above) given just a slight mention, such as maybe five minutes out of a 90 minute meeting?
What is promoted at your training meetings, products or training materials?
So, you pay to go to a meeting to build a product business, but most of the time is spent promoting the training materials, the next big function, and the next meeting. What are you truly selling? What business are you truly in?
Why don’t you see this disconnect? Because you have to believe what you’re told because you are in a totally unfamiliar business.
[to be continued]
September 1st, 2007 at 1:11 am
[continued from previous post]
I understand you wholeheartedly support your TEAM leaders. But answer these questions objectively. Were you given regular training on the products, how to sell them, and how to deal with customers? Or is the activity you’ve been encouraged to do, is give out lit packs, sell books and CDs, and convince people to come to a for-fee training meeting?
The answer is, you are selling the training materials and the training system, and most of you get little to no financial compensation for those activities. But you were recruited to make extra money in the Quixtar business.
Why aren’t you seeing the disconnect?
The income and lifestyle representations used to recruit and motivate you are not strictly from the Quixtar business. Since it is the Diamonds which are used as examples, it is useful to know that they make two, three, and even four times as much annual income from the training materials, meetings, and speeches, as they do from Quixtar.
But you’ve been recruited into this Quixtar business thinking that the Quixtar products got them everything they showed you. But it didn’t.
And what about the delayed gratification of building in depth (I’m setting aside the “stacking” issue for the moment) rather than width and depth? How many people hang in that long?
You’re recruited into one business, then told to do activities that support another.
You’re sold a training system that doesn’t train you for the business you were recruited into, but rather, how to promote another business.
You’re shown how much money the upline Diamonds make in the business, but most of it actually comes from another business.
You’re taught to build your organizational structure in such a way that you will make you next to no money, while very quickly making someone above a Platinum, and thereby creating FAA points for the upline Diamond to qualify for a large annual cash award. This is manipulating the system to create the illusion of fantastic growth, but at others’ expense
This is what all the fuss is about. And it’s all so complex that you can’t possibly see it from within. You’re too close to it.
I couldn’t see it, either, until I was out.
September 1st, 2007 at 2:31 pm
1015-1017 - everyone read this! THE BIG APPLE
i am curious to hear answers from TEAM ibos from “the big apple”s questions.
i will be at next weeks TEAM meeting to find out myself as well.
IBOs outside TEAM were recuited into QUIXTAR and then told they will get help from team/support/training.
the great success TEAM has does not mean much b/c they were playing a different unfair game as the rest of us.
my ibo team (without crossline teams joining in) has build a 20k at functions network and they did it honestly and without deception.
September 1st, 2007 at 3:29 pm
The Big Apple #1015/6/7,
Bravo. Bravo. And Bravo.
September 1st, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Alticor/Amway/Quixtar say they have been trying to improve their image, but yet they continue to lie to everyone associated with them. If they want to improve their image, start coming clean with everyone and let them know the real reason they are having problems. It’s their refusal to reduce prices to competitive levels. Alticor/Amway/Quixtar’s problems go way further than just with TEAM. People are tired of being taken advantage of!
September 1st, 2007 at 11:24 pm
Hi Tex,
Yes, the title “Just Go, Team” definitely grabs attention, as seen by the number of postings.
Take your stand about Woodward, fine, but remember the Team IBOs, and don’t alienate them simply because of Woodward’s association with them. They are still our business associates, and we want to continue that relationship with them.
I agree, being too PC (politically correct) can give the wrong impression of being too soft on those who break the rules. But there is a right way and a wrong way to express those views.
We should redefine PC as being “people considerate” towards each other, and by speaking up in support of them, especially now when they need our encouragement.
As stated in the 2nd to last paragraph, “…We are doing our best to repair the relationships Orrin Woodward damaged and protect the businesses of the people in his organization that Orrin Woodward betrayed. And we will continue building our business with thousands of people who know how to build it the right way.”
This is a good start, let’s continue it.
Sincerely,
Ros
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:54 am
I want to address this stacking matter, stacking has been going on for ever, OJ Simpson stacked, don’t know if he is still in or not, Lennon Ledbetter has stacked for years, I am sure he is still in, so have many others, so why the crack down on the new guys! Stacking is where you sign someone up who you do not know. I bet there is not a Platnum in the entire world that has not done that at some time. That would include, a stranger, an ad, even a referral and you would either personally sponsor or find a sponsor for them down line who needed a lift . The problem is something else, is it because they grew so fast and they all had 50 + pv? Almost no 00, at the end of the month? Lots of people on Ditto? It also cannot be BMS, every large organization has had non approved BMS tools for years. They arn’t stealing, killing or doing anything that is not in high moral standards. I have heard some of the young leaders cd’s and they give honor and glory to God, is that the problen with Legal?
September 3rd, 2007 at 1:28 am
I been reading all this, my feeling is that Q/A and Team are victims of an other system who wants Team out of his way, because Team leaders are strong and transparent sharing system profits and more, few years later Team is going to be so big, making the other system to desapear the other system that I use have they are taking all the system $ for themselves it is a lot of $ or bread. Leting low incom people empty pokets and they are asking you to look at them and make a relations.
No stacking, I got sponsored I met as far as I could the line of sponsor, long story no one help me to build a leg I was on my own it was hard I whish I had a stranger up line to teach me and help me build the business.
Because the consept of business it is I put my hands on fire if there is a system where every up and down line knows each other.
If relations are making you reach you want that for generations to come, even if there are not relations, the future doesn’t look brite for this system no income no legacy, they want to stop the giant Team
Who finds the “week area”? if there is one on Team, who is nerves, who has interest on their field? and more questions.
Good leaders always get in trouble but that’s why they are good leaders and they always find the way out I trust Team leaders the’re going to find the way out, all these make them just stronger it is a teaching lesson for them, you can do it I love your cd’s.
million’s of people need Quixtar/Amway
million’s of people need good leaders
I pray we have both.
September 3rd, 2007 at 1:58 pm
Hey everyone!! Check out this video comparing prices from Quixtar and Meijer by Shameus McSteeley. It’s pretty funny and informative.
http://theiborebellion.blogspot.com/2007/09/shameus-mcsteeley-on-product-pricing.html
September 4th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
Tex — so which rules have TEAM broken? I have been around a few years, and NO ONE in my upline or downline HAS EVER received anything from the Corporation indicating any rules violation. Not even one. Nothing. Ever. Moreover, the Corporation had no problem with TEAM approach until a short time ago. Quixtar has chosen to CHANGE the rules, but previous to that there were no broken rules.
If you have something more than your subjective opinion or statements from the Corporation I would love to hear it.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
The Big Apple said: “…And what about the delayed gratification of building in depth (I’m setting aside the “stacking” issue for the moment) rather than width and depth? How many people hang in that long?”
How many people hang on??? Have you missed the fact that TEAM has been the fastest growing for 7 years now? They aren’t “hanging on” and this shows your ignorance regarding the TEAM approach to depth building. Why do you even care enough to write such lengthy postings? What’s your agenda?
September 4th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Maybe someone can compare the prices of Quixtar w/The Dollar Tree stores too.
September 4th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
SimplyNutrilite - new products from Quixtar, IMO they’re very competitively priced and very retailable. The board knew about them, so Woodward and Brady knew about they were coming.
Check them out yourself.
September 5th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Ohio IBO #1025/6,
Read the original announcement. I have asked for more details from Quixtar, nothing yet. Moderator?
It also said problems had been going on for years. Did all TEAM IBO’s find out about the Amway name change when it happened a couple of months ago? If not, maybe you didn’t find out about problems, either.
I talked with my Quixtar Sales Manager a couple of weeks prior to Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward getting kicked out, and he indicated stacking holds up for a year or two, but then falls behind width (% of IBO’s staying in) when more than 2 years pass, on average.
ibofb #1028,
Makes you wonder they wanted to get out prior to the new improvements being announced and available, because now their “illegal pyramid” because of high prices is falling apart. I wouldn’t want to be an Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward loyalist, with all the improvements going on. I’ll bet many of them are having second thoughts (assuming Orrin “allows” them to have their own thoughts!).
September 6th, 2007 at 8:29 am
WOW! Information overload!! The wife and I were invited to a friend’s house last week to meet his family and talk about Quixtar and the opportunity to better myself and my family. After spending what now seems like way too much time on the web trying to figure out if this thing is strait up or are the negative things true. I am still not sure what to do!? I can not, or will not, waste time and resources on something that is not productive.So, some honest opinions would be welcome. Thanks, Irving, Tx.
September 6th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
1030/Wil/IrvingTX - thanks for your public transparentcy
The web is not the place to get advice or make a decision. It is like a big bathroom wall and anyone can write anything they want.
If you let negative on internet influence you…. that you can’t be a Christian, a Muslim, a democrat, a republican, and American, a Catholic, a Charismatic, word of faith, heathen, etc…… (try searching internet on anything that people believe in strongly and you will find negative)
If you want to avoid critism “be nothing, say nothing, and do nothing”
If you want to learn if you want to become a golfer or not - how do you decide? Do you search the internet for golfing or do you try golfing and get to know other golfers?
Internet
- US Chamber of Commerce (twice Quixtar/Amway chairman has been President of the Chamber)
- 6 billion dollar Company debt free for a LONG time.
September 6th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
TEX, Wow. Thank goodness you know Orrin so well/personally that you can give us such accurate, sound advice. I don’t know what all of us IBOs would do without you. The last time you and Orrin met, did he seem shifty, up to no good? What did he disclose about the evil plans he has for his team? What was the last thing you saw him do or say? Keep us posted about his going ons because without someone like you on the inside looking out for us, we’d be lost and victimized.
Also, keep writing about all the wonderful money making plans Quixtar has in store for us. You are our beacon of hope as far as our future with Amway is concerned. If you didn’t go to all the meetings and then come back and inform us of what went on, we’d lose all hope and stop prospecting and growing our business. You have no clue how refreshing it is to hear some truth from someone like you who was actually there. Those evil team people have been doind nothing but saturate us with their vile lies and christian ways. Yuck! When’s your next meeting at Quixtar? Can you give Orrin a message for all of us next time you see him? Let me know, Tex, you worldly man you.
September 6th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
Wil - if you’re working with the right people and people you enjoy the company of, it’s simply a great business with great products.
It has it’s “negatives” (what doesn’t?) but in my opinion these are far outweighed by the positives.
Despite some of the upheavals going on, the future definitely looks bright. Just two facts really do say enough -
IAAF 2006 World Male Athlete of the Year, Asafa Powell - Nutrilite spokesperson
IAAF 2006 World Female Athlete of the Year, Sanya Richards - Nutrilite spokesperson
Not much more needs to be said really.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:22 am
“i am curious to hear answers from TEAM ibos from “the big apple”s questions.”
OK…The “Big Apple” never got the “Big Picture” so he QUIT.
The answer is simple…Matthew 13,13-15 and Matthew 13, 20-21.
What God originates, God orchestrates.
Sometimes this means “weeding”.
The TEAM isn’t for everyone. Hopefully God has other plans for The Big Apple.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
MISREPRESENTATION
All TEAM ibos signed Quixtar agreements. TEAM does not exist apart from Quixtar/Amway Corporation.
http://www.the-team.biz/Articles/tabid/53/ID/678/Default.aspx
“What is Team?
Each of us are called upon to be leaders at different times in our lives, whether at home, at church, in our communities, at work, or in a business. The TEAM is a leadership development service provider (LDSP) designed to help individuals learn leadership principles, grow in their personal leadership abilities, and develop other leaders. The TEAM is not affiliated with any particular company, business, opportunity or enterprise.”
Read the last sentence again, “not afilliated with any company”
EVERY single TEAM ibo IS affiliated through Quixtar/Amway.
EVERY ibo on TEAM including Orrin Woodward came through Amway’s LOS- Line of Sponsorship that goes all the way up to Dexter Yager and the Devos/VanAndel Family’s
TEAM has MISREPRESENTED who Amway/IBOAI is, what they do, and what relationship TEAM ibos have with Amway/Quixtar. Now that TEAM ibos are discovering the truth, they think Amway has completely flip-flopped, instead of realizing they have been Lied to about their affiliation/agreement with Quixtar/Amway.
as 3rd grade as it sounds
“TEAM blew a fart and blamed it on Amway before they could be completely blamed for the stink”
September 7th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
[…] Quixtar Media Blog Post […]
September 9th, 2007 at 11:18 am
Greatful in Grand Rapids #1032,
Yeah, I know Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” real well. All I have to do is look at his tool prices to determine he isn’t in the Quixtar business, he’s in the tool business, just like most of the rest of the Platinums and above from other groups. The rest of the IBO’s would continue to get ripped off without me. Orrin looks and sounds shifty every time I see him or listen to him, and I just told you why, above. I think he’s had evil plans for years, you hardly ever hear the word Quixtar on his tapes/CD’s. The last time he has been heard from was the stories of August 9th, when he tried to blackmail Quixtar. I don’t need to know any more than that. Just read the garbage on freetheibo by Randy Haugen, he sounds just like Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward. I don’t have to write about the money making plans Quixtar has in store for us, you can read them on the Quixtar site, assuming you are an IBO. Are you? What I don’t see are the money making tool profit plans from Orrin. Do you have those? You didn’t read the first part of Ron Simmons’ latest message, did you? The things he listed regarding not mentioning the Quixar name, Orrin/Chris taking credit for what Quixtar does, not mentioning retail, etc., came from me (could have come from others as well). Now Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” and several others are terminated/resigned, not me. We now have fewer liars and cowards to deal with, very good news. I’ll be meeting with Quixtar again very soon, would you like to know the results? I can give Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward a message the next time I see him, what would you like me to tell him?
September 9th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
To Wil #1030:
I appreciate your desire to discern the truth. You have probably heard the saying “no matter how slin you slice it, there are always 2 sides to every coin.”
I would recommend you read the opinion of someone who has been involved with Quixtar/Amway for over 16 years and has earned a tremendous amount of respect from a lot of people. His name is Chuck Goetschel. An Aug 16th letter from him can be seen at http://chrismcstu.blogspot.com/. Another person I would recommend also posted a letter on that site, and his name is Bill Newton.
As you may know, the name of Quixtar will eventually be re-named back to the Amway name. I believe building the business as it currently exists is a tremendously hard undertaking and when the name changes back to Amway, will be even harder. I did not say impossible, but difficult, and many people simply won’t endure its hardships (negative name recognition, uncompetitive pricing, etc.). If I were evaluating a network marketing opportunity today, I would consider other network marketing companies that, quiet frankly, do not have the inherent hardships of this particular opportunity. Let’s face it, there are several great network marketing opportunities and companies out there. And through research of my own, I can confidently say, that more people will find them more achievable compared to this opportunity.
Hope this helps,
Bill
September 10th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
bill w #1038,
If Chuck Goetschel and Bill Newton are such great guys, where have they stated where they made the vast majority of their income from, the tools? Where have they stated the amount of tool proit they “earned”?
September 10th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Quixtar allowed a monster to be created in TEAM. To kill it has become a messy job!
Quixtar is over-polite. They do not like to terminate ibo contracts. Quixtar should have terminated Orrin Woodward, Brady, Florence, etc… a long time ago.
T.E.A.M.
The
Ego
Achieves
Manipulation
September 11th, 2007 at 11:14 am
Rule #1 of Leadership: “Don’t let the tail wag the dog”
http://www.freetheibo.com/images/Compendium_of_Exhibits.pdf
Read pg 45-51 Letter by Mohr
Check out this website. It is not biased/spinned toward Quixtar b/c it is from the former Quixtar IBOs that were terminated/resigned. Even though it is written to be against Quixtar, the letter from “Mohr” tells the whole story.
Read the 6 page letter by Alitcor General Counsel, Michael Mohr - This is a summary of what happened. He talks about all the problems Quixtar had with TEAM.
The August 9 meeting was to correct TEAM practices. TEAM knew it and was not willing to change, so they constructed an Exit plan, which included a Lawsuit and blackmail of a Anti-Amway PR campaign.
The 6 page letter ends with a summary “this is classic case of the tail trying to wag the dog”
as posted on jthompson’s website
September 12th, 2007 at 10:15 am
97 Lee Ziegler
You can have it.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
JT, TEX,
If TEAM was so high up, you wouldn’t be spending so much time TRYING to bring it down. Obviously TEAM is of great importance and threat for you to spend so much time on it. Get a life and stop trying to create so much drama out of TEAM. I know these blogs are the highlights of your lives but…get out and let the real people have an intelligent discussion. I’m not advocating for either TEAM or QUIXTAR, I just want the junk, you, sifted out of these posts.
September 12th, 2007 at 7:35 pm
Ohio IBO [#1026]
I do not comment on the claims about TEAM’s performance as I don’t have concrete information on the subject.
I’ve seen many TEAM supporters make these claims, but I have seen very few, if any, personal claims of individual success. Everybody keeps pointing to their organization’s success, but not their own.
I have read that TEAM specifically tells new recruits that their method of business building depends on delayed income. So my question still stands: How many people are willing to hang on until they’re Emerald? That time is probably at least several years — likely between three and five years for the very few that do hang on. You tell me how long it takes a TEAM Emerald to get there, what percentage get to Emerald, and how that percentage differs from the Quixtar average.
To hang on, these people, over time, have to spend (some would say “invest”) a considerable amount of money on the System. Just counting all aspects of the cost of doing business, which includes not only the books, CDs, web sites, meetings, and weekend seminar expenses, but the affiliated food, travel, and lodging costs, how long before they break even? Another way of putting it is, what is their return on investment? That ROI number changes with the passage of time. A long time for payback means a lower ROI.
Contrast that with selling product, recruiting people to sell products, and teaching them to recruit people to sell products. People start making money right away, you don’t need as many people in your organizatoin to go Platinum, retention is high because lots of people are making some kind of money, and the increased retention reduces the need for massive recruiting.
But, Ohio IBO, that would not gel well with a training system leaders, because they need those high numbers of IBOs as BSM “customers,” and they need that massive recruiting effort to keep the churn going so they can sell more recruiting materials and fill the seats at the hotel Opens.
Why am I here and why do I care? I’m tired of the deception; I’m tired of being ashamed of telling people what I do because of the acts of others. I want the other side of the story to be told because I care about the longevity of this business. And I’m here to tell it.
September 13th, 2007 at 12:11 am
43,
I appreciate the compliments, i am doing a lot of my blogging at the new orrinwoodward blog. You will appreciate the posts, just click my name.
i have not incentive or emotional-attachment to believe/support team or support quixtar.
In fact my favorite part of the business has been the people, systems, cds/functions….
i am not and ibo so it does not affect me personally if Amway does good or not.
I came into all of this as a neutral observer, and after experiencing the cult-like manner that SOME (not all) team ibos acted at freetheibo, and how manipulative TEAM ran freetheibo… and reading EVERY major doc/letter put of by TEAM… and contrasting it with what i know about mlm industry and amway…. i quickly started to come up with conclusions.
The summaries of my findings with entertaining stories and lots of facts are at my blog.
September 13th, 2007 at 12:13 am
44 - the big apple - do you mind if i include some of your blog posts onto the new orrin woodward blog site if i quote you in entirety?
September 13th, 2007 at 11:28 am
1043,
TEAM is Zero threat to JT, b/c JT is not a Quixtar IBO and may or may not be in the future.
Read my front blog page about why i am blogging
“Friends and Mentors”
“Bullies and Fair Fights”
If TEAM won (less than a lottery chance) the CA lawsuit, I would not be emotionally devastated. It does not hurt me personally.
Junk?
Go to freetheibo
They compare TEAM to founding fathers and Q/A to the Crown England that murdered the founding fathers
September 13th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
TEAM future in mlm?
Orrin, Chris, and the afilliated TEAM ex-ibos will probably no longer be trusted to be distributors for another mlm Company again. They are not shy at filing lawsuits and may try to control another mlm in the future.
If I owned another mlm, i would not want them near me!
The challenge of starting an mlm from scratch is amazing. It would be very difficult to lay a 70 year infrastructure in 2 years!
TEAM “yellow light” members are already gone b/c of the negativity and non-activity and distractions of late.
Loyal TEAM members will die slowly b/c “that which does not grow, dies” is a truism in mlm networking style businesses.
TEAM has no business right now, they are praying for a Court Decision Disaster so they can be free from the non-compete contracts that they have been signing and agreeing every year.
Funny thing is that Orrin Woodward and his amigos have been telling their carefully devised story for so long, they probably actually believe it now!
September 13th, 2007 at 5:39 pm
jthompson [#1046]
Thank you for asking, but no. I’d rather my posts only appear on the site where I post them, e.g., Alticor Media Blog, Quixtar Opportunity Zone.
I don’t mind if you refer people back to my original post on a blog, with or without a link.
Thanks. : )
September 14th, 2007 at 2:05 am
I was an Amway distributer from 1989 to 1993, and then again in the later 90’s after being told that things “have changed at Amway”. LOL It got worse! The biggest challenge I faced in order: 1. Price of products not even close to being marketable 2. Poor reputation 3. Motivational organization associated costs and poor reputation of being “cult-like”. and 4. The Corporation’s GIANT contributions to the Republican party, to the point where this business is obviously viewed by many as a sort of political action committee…On the one hand I am happy to see people in leadership positions challenge the corporation on pricing issues. On the other, I am happy to see the Corporation try to reign in some of the roque elements, as it were. I would like to see a far more progressive Amway, that got out politics, or at least the obviously corrupt and increasingly unpopular Republican party style politics, and an Amway that was competivie in the market. Were this the case I would re-join and be abel to actually build the business where it would be worth my time. Will this happen? Doubtfull. It looks like it is imploding right before our eyes. Best of luck everyone, these are tough times, and perhaps time we take a more realistic look at things.
September 14th, 2007 at 4:26 am
Get rid of the fanatical right wing politics, stop mixing in religion, set the price at a reasonable market rate, then make a public appology for doing business this way for the past 50 years, then hire an ad agency to rebrand and remarket the “new” company and I promise you will see North American growth numbers shoot through the roof. INMHO the big problem is the Q/AMO’s. It’s a business. We have churches, temples and mosques for praying, and can freely join the political party of our choice–I don’t need god and a political position to come with my laundry detergent, thank you very much!
I hope the people at Amway management are finally getting it–most of America got it long ago.
September 14th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
One final thought, after reading the open letters by various diamonds from the board who were either terminated or retired…Perhaps, if the corporation could offer a competive price on products it wouldn’t set up such an enviornment that calles for Systems to use “other” methods to get people to stay in the business (ie relying on ideology and religious content) to keep people in the business. Still, you have to respect these men for taking a stand, and for doing what they said they would do and that is stand up for the IBO interest, especially new ones, and being true to the dream. However this plays out, I really hope we get something whereby a quality product can effectively be retailed honestly where you don’t have to feel guilty about because you know it’s way over priced, and also bring others into a credible and ethicle business that doesn’t have rely on brain washing to overcome the price hurdles.
When this comes about, I want to be one of the first ones to sign up!!! I may not agree with some of you guys politically, or be quite as religious, but I will say there are some amazing leaders who are intelligent, and very respectable, for putting their fortunes on the line for the opportunity they have been working hard to sell for decades.
September 17th, 2007 at 10:34 pm
“TEAM “yellow light” members are already gone b/c of the negativity and non-activity and distractions of late.
Loyal TEAM members will die slowly b/c “that which does not grow, dies” is a truism in mlm networking style businesses.”
I don’t mind people that can’t control their emotions and feel compelled to exaggerate on these blogs, but statements made as fact which have no hint of factual support (such as the one above) really make me laugh out loud. jthompson, please provide the statistical analysis done to support your comment. Yeah….right.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
Obviously there’s something to TEAM #1043,
I’m not concerned about TEAM, they don’t exist any more. Take your garbage back to freetheibo where the rest of your Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward friends slobber all over your nonsense. TEAM was helpful to bring more attention to the tool scam issue. Nothing more. They are very similar to the tool companies that are still sucking the life out of this business, and hopefully the U.S. model will soon look similar to the UK model. I’m not going to be “sifted out of these posts”, unlike the freetheibo Gestapo forum. What could be more important than helping identify and maintaining the focus on the most important issue the Amway/Quixtar business faces? The massive tool profits have created the negative reputation, created massive financial and other losses for literally millions of Distributors/IBO’s for decades, and filled the wallets of a relatively few higher pins. It is now apparently and thankfully coming to an end.
September 20th, 2007 at 10:29 pm
Wow! I can’t beleive what I just read. I am someone interested in becoming an IBO because I like XS and wanted to introduce it to my friends. But after reading this statement from Alticor I’m not sure what to do.
This statement is very unprofessional and should have never went out. Whatever your reasons are to let him or anyone else go is not something you should broadcast out there because it only makes you look bad.
I wanted to let you know because if I do decide to work as an IBO I want to make sure the company I represent is ethical in all ways and upstanding.
Best regards,
September 22nd, 2007 at 4:47 pm
Rachel #99,
You are welcome to leave, but you have to follow the rules in doing so. It will probably take much more than the standard 6 month waiting period for the court proceedings, and may even result in an even longer waiting period, since the lawsuit itself could be considered enticement into a new business. It will also cost Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward lots of dollars to pay his lawyers. All in all, a very stupid move, but certainly not unexpected by someone who has flaunted the rules for years. We’ll see how funny all of this is when it is over, and I doubt Orrin will be the one doing the laughing.
Candace #100,
You don’t have to say anything else, Orrin “Rosie Ruiz” Woodward and Co. spoke loudly with their idiotic lawsuit. Do you realize they don’t have a leg to stand on, because they hardly EVER attempted to even mention retail sales, let alone conduct extensive sales training?
You ought to check who you are “proud of”, because they were in charge of their own self made disaster. Some integrity, Candace.
September 23rd, 2007 at 8:50 am
Barbara #1055,
There are far more significant problems than the wording on this blog.
I suggest you google each of the following words along with the word “Amway”: Morrison, Anderson, TIF, Stewart, and Hart. You will find MUCH more money is being made on tools than Quixtar, and has been for decades. Find Rich DeVos’ “Directly Speaking” recordings as well, the part about the excessive tool profits is unfortunately alive and well. Except in the UK. You can google DTI, UK, and Amway to find out more on that area. You see, ALL of these examples point to the REAL problem being tool profits.
Then I think you will agree the correct response is “Just Go, TEAM.” However, most of the other tool businesses need to “go” as well.
September 24th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
Finally, someone has done something about the illegal practices that the Team and “the business” are doing. My husband and I were involved with “the business” aka the team for almost a year and how they get you to sign up is not by telling you the whole truth. They make their money on the books, tapes, “events” ect. Then in January 2006 they started telling you that you have to buy certain products to be able to get your “rebate” and it is a bunch of lies and brainwashing. They fill your head with all kinds of crap telling you to only associate with the 5% ers and everyone else is crap. I hope by firing Orrin and Chris from Quixtar that the people the team have “brainwashed” will finally realize it is not all that it is cracked up to be. For anyone out there who thinks that the rest of their upline don’t think like Brady or Woodward you better think again. These guys are like GOD to them and I believe they would follow them to hell and back if they asked. I have been to many opens, and many major events in Lansing and Birch Run and believe me it is all a bunch of crap. Have you ever heard of anyone telling people they were in business with to miss an important family event such as a wedding and get this even a family memeber’s funeral to go to an event? That is just sad. And I still have all the tapes and cd’s to prove it. Wake up TEAM members and think for yourselves!!!!!!
September 25th, 2007 at 12:27 am
Jill #1058,
What you say is true about TEAM, and also true about most other tool systems. The UK has clamped down on the tool scam, now it is time to do the same in the U.S. and the rest of the world, for that matter.
October 2nd, 2007 at 1:18 pm
Why don’t you all grow up and make money like it is suppose to be made. Yes I know all about the team and its scam. Everyone wants to make money the easy way. I sure hope you haven’t lost to much money or scammed to many friends. What a huge joke. Who it their right mind would spend $6 dollars a tape to hear some knot head talk or pay more for a product than you can buy at the store. HA, HA. The money it made on the tapes, seminar and the books. Smarten up people. It is all such a lazy man’s scam. What a mind altering cult. Get your head out of the sand and shop around on some other web sights besides the team.
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Angela #1060,
I agree with you points, but do you realize the tiny percentage of IBO’s you are communicating with? And how similar other tool companies are to the TEAM pricing/profits?
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Angela,
You say you know all about the team. Can you elaborate? Have you been involved with TEAM personally? Specifically, what was your experience?
October 4th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
Amway/Quixtar is reaping what they have sown for years. The corporation has turned a blind eye to the recruiting methods and tools “business” of it’s so-called IBO’s for years. (and if IBO’s are truly “independent”, how can they be terminated? but I digress…) They set up rules establishing minimum number of retail sales to earn a bonus to satisfy technical legalities, but who are they fooling? They don’t enforce their own rules. And the only “positive posts” on the business that you can find are put out there by the corporation or some of their paid-off PR folks.
I, for one, am happy to see the company starting to rot. It’s only a matter of time…
Sincerely,
Mike
Recovering IBO from the Hart/Nealis/Mitts line
October 5th, 2007 at 8:42 am
Mike #1063,
Mike, I agree with most of what you said, except for the “independent” part (more on that later) and your expectation A/Q will simply rot away. A multi-billion dollar/year company that employs thousands of employees should be expected to fight back, and make the necessary changes.
Recall that crises bring danger and opportunity. People, applying human nature, are quick to jump on the danger part and ignore the opportunity part.
In years past, we didn’t have the internet to apply pressure on the upline and the corp to “fly right”.
It’s your right to “bitch and moan”, but I think you are neglecting you have far more power than you once had.
Regarding “independent”, that doesn’t mean you don’t have to follow the rules. I told another person on another thread recently a McDonalds independent owner/franchisee also has to follow corporate rules, or they will be “terminated” as well. The Quixtar rules contain several statements that certain actions/inactions can result in termination, so this excuse is a red herring.
October 14th, 2007 at 5:59 am
Well, well, well,
It finally all hits the fan !!!
I was an amway man for 10 years & loved the motivation & positive thinking I received from all those LEADERS you named as the “TEAM” & support them mentally. Yet I quit 7 years ago because the prices were too damn high back then. That is where the profits come from; my $700 centrifical force no bag vacuum, that did work quite well I might add. I sold 3 & got a residule back of $100. So for selling 3 vacuums at my cost of $2100 ( I could never get or want to rip off anyone for more than I was being ripped off for), Amway — Alticor?? (who are they) & Quixtar profited maybe $500 & all my upline & myself got maybe $500 & the 3 vacuums total cost was the other $1,100.
That was an example; my group did $6,000 in volumn & I was PV’ed at how little we got back on it! I know all about the idea that if I threw enough mud on the wall enough of it would stick to go DIRECT & I would see more $$ out of the deal. But, I could not stomach seeing strugling people in my group pay much higher than retail for, truthfully, OK stuff but, not exceptional stuff & knowing that we are only paying for our own bonuses.
I almost got back in when I heard about Quixtar but, it was the same old over priced structure, the Amway side of it that helped me stay out.
I have used the principals learned by the leaders of the TEAM to build my own traditional business where I earned over $100,000 a year for 3 years in a row. I don’t get close to that now but I am ok with it & love what I do & I am home each night.
Good ol boys, it looks like you have just shot yourselves in both feet & I am happy for you.
The products mean nothing to me; all that hype that they are superior than others & my clothes will fall apart without your soap & all. Yes, everybody has to profit to be motivate to build a big infrastructure & be successful. You did that out of the profit from the true retail prices & gave back only that portion that was the over pricing & if any out of your profits, it was a write off against your gains as sub-contractor labor.
Who is going to sell your stuff now, I stopped buying it 7 years ago & I still have some of it around the house.
I guess it is superior because it lasts so long!
October 16th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Hello…(Echo)
Hello!!!(Echo)
Anybody there…(Echo)
HELLO!!!! (ECHO, ECHO, ECHO)
(Hey, where did everybody go? I guess 7k was just the start. People can’t think for themselves, there must be somebody behind all this!)
October 16th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
DL #1065,
You base your entire decision on the vacuum cleaner, which isn’t even available any more?
Do you realize MUCH more money is made by upline on tools, not the products?
SPARTAN #1066,
I don’t check the back pages as often, but there is somebody behind all this, me.
October 17th, 2007 at 1:55 am
I just got back from a workshop sponsored by LTD. I guess LTD (Leadership Team Development) is another organization like TEAM. I decided to do more research on Alticor/Quixtar/Amway. I found this post interesting because it appears one of the reasons TEAM was “Let GO” was because
“Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could.
Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.
Telling people that Quixtar was merely a “supplier,” and not the company they were signing a contract with? Yup.”
I find this interesting cause it appears other organizations like LTD are also saying the same thing. I was told by an LTD reprensentative that Quixtar is simply a supplier for LTD and that LTD could have chosen any other supplier like Amazon.com.
There appears to be to many problems and to many issues, stories, lies, mistruths, etc surrounding this company and its subsidiary organizations. If this was truly a good organization I do not think there would be so many issues and so many disgruntled stories and problems. Whether the stories are true, false, or in between. You have to ask yourself why would there be so many stories and why would people take the time to write them or video them if there were no problems. Sounds like Alticor better reign in all the bs IBO and organizations surrounding them cause today I decided the facts did not add up and most likely maybe 2% of all IBO that actually are active probably make something worth righting home about. Also the products suck. And the lack of a real extensive product catalogue with many real name brands not simply 3 products is sure provides me with alot of evidence that suggests this is not the best place to buy my products. Why would I bother to ask my friends, family, coworkers, to look into this business system when I do not even believe in the product. Instead of Alticor stepping up and providing decent products and making real deals with real name brands manufacturers and I do not mean for just 3 products. This product catalogue sucks and I would be embarassed to sell this product to someone. That is my 2 cents. Buyer beware, a sucker is born every day, and if it is too good to be true it probably is.
Ciao
Prospective IBO (I think Not)
October 17th, 2007 at 7:21 am
Why haven’t you got rid of Dexter Yager, Fred Harteis and all the rest? They all run the business in the same way!
October 17th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Prospective IBO #1068,
You make several good points, but how do you know that all of the products “suck”?
Lisa #1069,
Lack of real leadership. Perhaps the push they got from DTI has their attention now.
October 26th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
[…] seems that Quixtar’s post a couple months ago named “Just Go, Team” didn’t accurately convey Quixtar’s feelings toward […]
October 28th, 2007 at 12:48 am
Boy, this is a good site to let us rant & rave & be negative over our experiences with the “Company” or the “System”. Tex sure has a lot to say.
It was our own decesion after all to join & pay for all the positive books & tapes. I was always told the materials & seminars only bring in what it cost to to produce them & the infrastructure to provide them.
It never crossed my mind that some of the money some Diamond spent on a motor-home or luxury car came from tool sales or that this side income was part of their overall income.
Well, good luck to ya all; I hope you work out your differences. I’m glad I am not on this mary-go-round with all it’s excitement.
I just want to read a positive book & move forward & enjoy my own family growing up!
October 28th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
Shaun #1071,
Looks like your message had to “cleaned up” so much your idea didn’t come across. Care to restate your point?
DL #1072,
Enjoy your family. I and others will be here to prevent more victims like yourself in the future. By the way, you’re welcome.
November 8th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
…..”In response, we have a temporary restraining order issued by a court that prevents him from looting the business as he seeks to take his act to a new company.”
…..EXCUSE YOU??? That’s wrong! Here’s the truth, TEAM was the one granted the restraining order: http://aide-de-camp.typepad.com/captain_robert_dickie/
(Click on the PDF link)
This just gets better:
“So he’s gone, and so are others. We are doing our best to repair the relationships Orrin Woodward damaged and protect the businesses of the people in his organization that Orrin Woodward betrayed. And we will continue building our business with thousands of people who know how to build it the right way.”
Read what Randy Haugen had to say about this.
http://crazyfunwildworld.blogspot.com/2007/09/team-resigned-double-diamond-randy.html
November 9th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
News flash for Goliath fans. Looks like little David stood up to the big Q and snapped his head back a bit with this latest court ruling. Looks like the big Q is vulnerable after all. You got to love it when it happens on the home teams field. It’s amazing how the truth can set you free. Rock on David!!
November 12th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
IT is not the business, its not the products, its the system. You follow systems like this 2 leg stuff and you will not make any money or at least very little. THis is a good company, its the different people who try to make some new system that give the company a bad name. There are millions of products and services. There has got to be something that you can focus on and sell. You have got to be creative. Just because you dont like a bar doesnt mean that all the products are bad.
In this business you have to learn to sell the products. That is one thing that many are either unwilling to do or maybe the “team” they joined just doesn’t train you on how to do it. This is a business. All businesses sell something. You have to learn how to build a customer base. This can turn into a residual income. Then teach others to do the same. Or better yet help others to do the same.
Look if you are not into sales, don’t join, because then why get into business. Yes many say that you don’t have to sell anything and just buy for yourself and the products sell themselves. Well you can buy for yourself, many products and services are available, and yes many of the products can sell themselves, but who has to get it infront of the customer, YOU.
I have people on my team that can do 600+pv a month, not buying for themselves, but selling. I had a young woman in my downline do 600pv in her first 2 week this past month.
If you have been in the business before and did not sell anything, it may be because your upline did not teach you how. There are many people that are involved with this company and try to do their own thing. From my understanding TEAM and other groups focused a lot more on cd, books, functions, that 2 leg thing, than actually selling. This is no good because then yea you are going to pay more in this business than make and that is one of the big problems within this company.
The company has been given a bad name for these kinds of events. I personally believe in motivational materials and use them (It costs me about $18 a month, big deal), but without any application then you will not be successful. You will also not be successful if you do that build one leg and then the 2nd.
Lets look at it. You build one leg to 25%. You are not a silver or platinum, you are a 25% sponsor. This means that the only check coming from the company is 25% of your personal BV. This is because you need an additional 2500pv coming from outside that 25% leg. Building this way looks like you did not do any work and instead you downline did. (Side note: I have a downline member making more than me because he has a wider organization and a better structure. So your downline can make more than your upline. No pyramid scheme here.)
Anyway building a business this way will only put you further into debt especially if you are not selling to customers. If you have a good structure than you don’t need customers and yes you can just buy for yourself because then your products are FREE. So for those who think that the products are too expensive, I really don’t think that you can beat FREE.
I just want to clarify my point once more. If you are building one leg deep, don’t like selling and really think that the products are too expensive than you will lose a lot of money. Because the only money that you are making are the bonus checks coming from quixtar for your own personal volume and thats it. So if you do 100pv which is roughly 250bv give or take a few, than you would get a check of a percentage, upto 25%, which would be, at maximum level, $62.50.(Let’s say everyone on that leg does 100pv. That must mean that you have 74 people in that leg and you are only making $62.50) You spent $187.50 on products. First off I think there are some great products and to pay $187.50 is nothing. And I am not just saying this because I am a college student(freshman) and many spent tons of money on food, clothes, etc. I just spend it on my business, which at this point is FREE.
Now let me show you how much better it is with a good structure. Let’s say you are only building 4 legs. You help them sponsor 2 people each. Now lets say you don’t like to sell. OK so you pay roughly $250 to do 100pv. Everyone on your team does 100pv. Your total pv is 1300 which qualifies you at 12%. So you get 12% of 250 which is $30. Now each of your four legs did 300pv which qualifies them for 6%. You get the difference in percentage of their total group volume. 12% - 6% = 6%. So you get an additioanl 6% of each of your legs’ total group BV. Because they each did 300pv their BV is roughly 750. 6% of 750 is $45. $45 times 4 legs is $180. $180 + $30 = $210 that comes directly from the company. Now I know my model does not exactly show that you get your products for free, but we’re getting there. You only spent $40. I mean it is very easy to sell something that you bought to make that $40 bucks back, but I will still assume that you do not like to sell.
You saw how having 75 people in one leg only brings you $62.50 making you spend $187.50, again if you do not like to sell. And we see how building a better foundation can lead to more profit quicker with only 13 people including yourself, making $210 coming from the company.
Anyway my point, I think is clear. This company has its rules for a reason, and I cannot see why people think that it does not work. I mean this 2 leg crap does not work. It’s these kinds of things that happen within the company that the company has no control over that give it a bad name. People follow people and in the end blame the company. That is what I think TEAM and whoever else is doing. Their system is so poorly planned because you the new IBO is not goin to make the kind of money that you would expect to make. Many have probably have experienced a lack of income because of this “stacking”.
Not that I endorse this in any way but if the guys who created this system of “stacking” at least told you to go at least 4 wide first, then stack then maybe it would be better in terms of income.
But anyway it is due to this system that the people who followed it are not making too much and are blaming the company for it. Either do something about it or somehow request to change your sponsor if that is what they are doing.
I know this was very long and what else do I have to do with my time, right. Well yea you are right, the time it took me to write this(15min.) I could have sponsored like 3 new people. So for the next 15min that I have before my next class that is exactly what I am going to do.
Good luck to all and much success where ever life takes you or where ever you take life. I personally do not like to wait for life to dictate my future I do that.
November 13th, 2007 at 12:12 am
Hey Jersey #1076 Your last sentence is fairly accurate with the exception of who will dictate your life. The big Q will do that for you. You don’t even have a voice in this business. Were you involved in the decision to change the name back to Amway? I think not!!! Nor was the IBOAI, who were clueless about this bad business move. Enjoy for now, but in the future all IBOs will become obsolete as this company will most likely go to the big box mentality and wean all existing IBOS into extinction. The future for the big Q looks dismal as we see mounting evidence of other organizations throughout the world seeking a way out of this sinking ship. The only safe harbor is with Team as we have true leadership guiding us to millions of people. Men who stand up for what is right and willing to take a hit financially to prove their conviction and commitment to their loyal teammates. If you only knew what I knew you would do as I do.
November 15th, 2007 at 9:58 pm
you guys where on your why down the tube with amway so why not rename it to cover up the wrong that you did as Amway.Instead of fighting and mud sling why not try to get better prices like Wal mart I for one would like to buy things cheeper and not let others get rich from me. I think this is childish The only one who is getting the shaft is me!!!and the people I brought into this buisnss. You guys get rich we are still trying to get there.Maybe if you pray GOD will give you direction because the only one who can help us now is God.Because you guys have scewed it up.You now who they are by:the way the walk the walk and talk the talk try it some time stop lieing and just TRY telling the TRUTH for the sake of all of us.May GOD be with you all you need him
November 16th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
SM #1074,
There has been more than 1 restraining order.
Randy made most of his profit from the tools, not Quixtar, but didn’t like talking about it. That’s what makes him a lying cowardly “kingpin”.
Kurt #1075,
You should read that decision again. It isn’t as favorable for TEAM as you’re imagining. Take a break from the TEAMtosterone, read it again, and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
November 16th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
From Jersey #1076,
Although a bit long winded, good post.
Kurt #1077,
We (IBO’s) weren’t involved in the name change to Quixtar. The IBOAI was involved. The IBOAI found out about the name change back to Amway, but didn’t tell the IBO’s. That’s the principles TEAM is founded on, lying to your so called “business partners” and “teammates”. No thanks.
November 21st, 2007 at 7:50 pm
That’s funny.
How do you termintate some one who already resigned?
Is that The Alticor way of getting the last word.
I know you quit.. But you’re fired…
Ha Ha…
Dorks
November 24th, 2007 at 3:03 am
Tex #1080
I think you are mistaken about the board members knowing that a name change was forthcoming. I’d love to know how you obtain all of your so called knowledge. You come across as being quite pompous in the majority of your posts. Do they pay you to be this way?
As far as referring to Team as lacking principle, I just don’t get why you’re so wounded over some guys with character and integrity taking a stand. Doesn’t it strike you as odd that numerous elite members in the industry are leaving in hords and many of those are hooking up with Team? Now why would they leave if they didn’t think Orrin and Chris have a better idea. We’re not talking about any ordinary IBO like yourself. You know the caliber of individuals are foregoing huge paychecks because they see true leadership in the works. Are you not the least bit impressed with the release of “Launching a Leadership Revolution?” Let me guess Tex, you couldn’t bring yourself to read it. I suggest that you pick it up and give it a go. Maybe you’ll see that the guys that you despise so very much are really looking out for everyones best interest, including yours. In the end you’ll come to grips with the reality of who is on the right track. The engineers leading this locomotive have all the momentum and all the passengers are comfortably situated for what’s to come. The train your on has plenty of vacancy as numerous individuals can’t see the light at the end of this tunnel. You want to borrow my flashlight?
March 2nd, 2008 at 3:12 am
I have resigned from Quixtar because of THIS blog post. I vote with my dollars and tell everyone to stay away from Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Amway Arena, Orlando Magic, and anything else associated with the owners. You can’t stop me.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:43 am
Now that TEAM leadership has been termed for their 6 months, why did Alticor file an additional 45 day injunction to them affiliating with anyone else? What is Alticor afraid of if TEAM was sooooo wrong?
March 22nd, 2008 at 7:56 pm
i saw a “you go rich devos” comment here. he is far away from amway as alpha centuri is from earth. i do hate how folks that worked the business for 35 years can be fired …… just when they are able to retire! i have seen this in my business and it shall prevail. when i sold life insurance the best producers were fired just prior to being “vestd” so that the general maneger could get the renewals for life! it meant a $40000 pay raise per year for the general manager to can the producing salesman! think 8 times before investing your time in a business that someone else owns!!!!!!
April 5th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
The best friend of truth is time and time is proving the real truth about the lack of character and integrity of the Amway Corp. I feel sorry for you as one time your fathers ran a great company. Another example of a second generation running things into the ground! You would be very wise to move on and let Orrin and Team move on also.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:59 am
TEAM IS FREE AND ON THE WAY TO ONE MILLION PEOPLE!!!!! Those of you who are honestly thinking TEAM isn’t growing are kidding yourself! Quixtar is a has been, TEAM will keep growing and we will follow Orrin anywhere. Before you Quixtar, Amway whatever yoru calling yourself now IBO’s judge, why don’t you attend a seminar and see what true Character is all about? And are you joking? The products are soooooooo overpriced….. your in denial if you think otherwise!!!!!!
TEAM ON THE WAY TO ONE MILLION AND BEYOND!