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August 10th, 2007 @ 3:59 pm ET…

Just go, Team

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We terminated Orrin Woodward yesterday, along with several other leaders of his field organization, named Team. We’ll post our formal statement when it’s ready. Informally, here’s the story:

We terminated Orrin Woodward for philosophical reasons. We did it for legal reasons.

But the main reason we did it is because the way Orrin Woodward ran his organization was a disgrace to every person who’s ever tried to build a Quixtar or Amway business the right way.

We have fought to clean up the reputation of our company for years. We know that one of the biggest challenges our reputation faces is misrepresentation of the Quixtar and Amway businesses to others.

And over the last several months, it became clear to us that Orrin Woodward was a poster child for a long list of bad business practices that our critics hate about our company. The other leaders we terminated – including Chris Brady, Billy Florence, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Tim Marks and Chuck Goetschel – also showed they were unwilling to reform.

Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could.

Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.

Telling people that Quixtar was merely a “supplier,” and not the company they were signing a contract with? Yup.

We’d told Woodward we had problems with the way he ran his business for years, and we worked methodically to bring those problems to resolution. We got ignored, we got lied to, and, boy, we got the runaround.

So in the end, yesterday, we tried to give him one last chance to reform.

He didn’t even want to hear his options. So we terminated him. And in return, he handed us a trumped-up, trash-talking lawsuit on his way out the door. In response, we have a temporary restraining order issued by a court that prevents him from looting the business as he seeks to take his act to a new company.

So he’s gone, and so are others. We are doing our best to repair the relationships Orrin Woodward damaged and protect the businesses of the people in his organization that Orrin Woodward betrayed. And we will continue building our business with thousands of people who know how to build it the right way.

We would say we were sorry to see Orrin Woodward go. But only if that were true.

Filed by: Corporate Communications

Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation

1087 Responses to “Just go, Team” (901 - 1000 shown)

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 » Show All

  1. Faith Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 4:07 am

    Quixtar is working hard not to let anyone take off there auto renewels today. As well as the new contract on SEP 1’st watch out everyone I recommend you all take off your auto renewels until you read the no complete time frame now and what your locked into from now on.
  2. Tex Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 6:05 am

    Jim 1 #889,

    They were terminated because they refused to follow the rules. Their followers were given a chance to follow the rules as well.

    Bob #890,

    Ever hear of a “figure of speech”?

    Cathy #892/3,

    Have you considered your upline had nothing else to do? Do you expect Quixtar to drop whatever they are doing every time an IBO has an emergency? Get real. That was pretty low bringing a family death into this discussion.
  3. Cathy Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 6:35 am

    Parnelli #850 told of how Amway started. And did not tell of how the IBOAI started. I heard about that part.

    It was started because Rich and Jay didn’t like the raw deal they got with Nutrilite, and decided to set up a board (originally called the Amway Distributors Association Board, or ADA Board), to protect field people from the rules being changed, as they were on them. When the company changed and went online as Quixtar, the Board changed, and became the IBOAI.

    Fast forward a few more years. The company isn’t run by men of integrity, but by head-hunting lawyers and greedy sons. The IBOAI lacks teeth and is given a useless month-by-month contract, totally negating any power it ever was supposed to have had. Get rid of the Board, and you get rid of the voice of the field. Get rid of the voice of the field, and lawyers and greedy sons can do as they please, with no one to say otherwiase.

    Stay tuned for part 2.
  4. Cathy Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 6:49 am

    Part 2

    So, you got rid of the board. Now, let’s get rid of most of the bonus structure, depth rewards and growth incentives. These are so MESSY!! I know! Let’s build it like we do in China, with only retailing IBO’s and selling our products in stores!!

    Still think it can’t happen? Okay, then how come I can’t sell Artistry products at a salon, but Amway can sell their new line at Neiman Marcus and other stores? A wave of the future??

    Which leaves us to wonder: What good will Dick and Jane IBO in the field be good to them in the future? As Amway moves farther away from what made it great, it moves farther away from us, the people who grew it and made it great.

    It is a wise person who sees the times they are in and understands them. Read the handwriting on the wall, gang. Read, translate and understand well. Know your times and seasons, and your reasons for what you do. You’re gonna need them!
  5. Piet Strydom Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 9:50 am

    To all those guys out there saying Woodward never critised the company: Get real!

    He launched a lawsuit, attacking Quixtar as an illegal pyramid. And as examples of what is wrong, he uses the methods that he has been teaching his people, in contravention of the Quixtar policies. Which is exactly why they were thrown out!!
  6. sak Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 9:55 am

    To Tex,

    WOW Tex you say you are in the “Team LOS” and even personally know Ron Simmons AND Chuck Goetschel and have had personal conversation with them in the past few days….sounds fishy to me???????
  7. Piet Strydom Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 10:05 am

    To Marcus Robinson:

    TEAM has had to change its name more than once, starting out as Team of Destiny. (ToD) They attracted so much negative publicity, that they changed their name to team, because guess what, if you Google “team”, you’re not going to get anything specific, are you?

    Secondly, Randy Haugen spread an inaccurate rumour about an Amway competitor in 1995. That rash decision to repeat something bad about a competitor, cost Amway $19 million in the law suit that followed.

    Thirdly, you are talking about thousands of people following TEAM, just be aware that there are some of the other BSG’s that measure their followers in the millions!!

    TEAM might have had some short term success, but in the process they caused a huge amount of damage. Both to the corporation, and to IBO that got chewed up by their tool machine. They will also not be the first to break away from Amway, to “do their own thing”. Only time will tell whether they are the first ones to really succeed.

    I for one will stick to my tried and tested product supplier, and BSM supplier. They have been around for 50 and nearly forty years respectively, and they ain’t going nowhere, with or without their IBO’s !!!
  8. Andy Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 12:01 pm

    To Piet Strydom:

    You completly amaze me with your vast amount of knowledge and wisdom. You blow me away that your knowledge is so much greater than any person that has been on Team, even if that person has been on Team for years your knowledge is FAR greater than any Team member. How do you do it? You have a special gift! Why are you wasting your time on this blog when you should be running for President in 2008. With all that amazing knowledge, YOU could fix all the problems with the Iraq war, oh and why you are at it, please with that knowledge, fix the over inflated gas prices that we have been dealing with for years. You have far to much knowledge and wisdom for all of this….PIET STRYDOM for PRESIDENT IN 2008.

    You got my vote!!!
  9. Piet Strydom Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 12:09 pm

    To Faith:

    Q/A sold in excess of $6 000 000 000.00 last fiscal year. If Team thinks the products aren’t viable, at least some other people think that they are! XS made up a very small portion of that.
  10. joe Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 12:10 pm

    I am shocked at the mis-information that is listed here. If you read all the information about this situation you’ll see it has been brewing for years.

    If you were selling cars and all your competitors lowered prices but your manufacturer raised prices how long do you think you’d be in business.

    I’ve heard this BSM argument so many times over the years that I can’t believe it still turns up. Teams BSM money is well documented. If you’re a CPA you have to get Continuing Educations Credits to keep your certification. If you’re an MD you must take courses to keep your license. Does anybody ask who gets that money? No, but in this business they want to track every penny. Why don’t you apply the same scrutiny to the cost of the products sold through Quixtar/Amway. If you did you might better understand how this situation came about. You complain that Orrin got rich from the BSM sales, but don’t bother to ask who got rich from PRODUCT sales.

    Using the car analogy again it’s as if you’re buying a Mercedes and complaining that the people who made the tires make too much profit, but not looking at Mercedes to see what profit they’re making. Only difference is the BSM materials are optional, the tires aren’t. I can build my business without the BSM materials and I might be able to buy a Mercedes without tires, it would just be extremely hard to get either to move.

    If you’re going to ask about the BSM money ask about the PRODUCT money.
  11. Cathy Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 12:16 pm

    902 Tex — I know your negativity from the FreeTheIBO blog. My point in that was Amway has never been there when I have needed them. They CAN’T be. They are a huge and FACELESS corporate entity, where the sons have NEVER done and I don’t think COULD do what the fathers DID to build the business and CARE for the people.

    My LOS DID have other things to do with their time. They TOOK the time out of their BUSY and business-building lives to CARE for my (negative) family and me! The opinions of my family regarding Amway haven’t changed since the day we signed up. The opinions of my family regarding our LOS HAVE, and this was but ONE of the reasons. Now, my family HATES Amway, and LOVES our LOS for how good they are to us and them!

    My final point stands, even if my example, in my anger and grief, was not the best one I can manage at this time. Grief over the death of my family member, and seeing my business I have worked so hard to build over 10 years being trashed before my eyes by a company to whom I have given nothing but loyalty. Anger over my Platinums and Diamonds being issued ultimatums, and knowing I am NEXT.

    Loyalty is generated by PEOPLE and COMMUNITIES. Its purchase price is love and sacrifice. It is never by companies and corporate entities. They only know money and the bottom line.
  12. Joe Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 12:41 pm

    I have one question for Piet (#905).

    The company has decided to change the name despite the objection of the Board. They have in all effect dismantled the Board. What makes you think they won’t change the compensation plan at any point they choose (profits down - change the compensation, need more profit - change the compensation). One of the purposes of the Board was to prevent just such an action, but they just proved the Board has no strength.
  13. Wendi Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 12:47 pm

    Amen #900 Faith,

    To Tex and Dad
    I really do pray that you will see the light of day. It is sad that you wish to stay enslaved to the demands of Amway. Do you understand that by selling products, you are taking your friends’ money and not helping anyone? Do you know that starting Sept. 1st if you do not comply to all of the selling quotas and buying of strictly their tools, you too will be terminated? Who do you think is helping themselves now? Who will the tool money go to then? My founders platinum upline informed my husband and I that when we joined with TEAM from Legacy that his tool volume tripled. He has not actively been building for the past 2 years. Go sit on that one for a while. Have you been to www.freetheibo.info? Interesting information. Going to a million. NO RETREAT. NO SURRENDER!!!!!
  14. Wendi Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 12:54 pm

    To Tex and Dad again,
    Maybe you should also read The Cash Flow Quadrant. Hopefully it will help you understand the “B” type business, while you are boycotting the bad t.p. You might be in the bathroom awhile!
  15. Mike Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 1:43 pm

    Most people affiliated with TEAM call themselves Christians. Christians don’t lie and the TEAM did/does a lot of it. When you lie you sin.

    Internet business? I think not! It is really a “training” business because that’s where most of the money comes from. They don’t tell you that when you sign up; you have to figure it out on your oun. And when you do finally figure it out and confront them with it, they try to down play it. Also, to call it training is extremely questionable. Most of the CDs are trash - just replays of the seminar that you just paid $50 or $100 for. Maybe 5% of the CDs you buy will actually teach you something. Of course they will tell you the CDs are “optional”. But if you gon’t buy them you are ostracized.

    Good luck TEAM — or whoever you will call youselves. There is still time to clean up your act and repent.
  16. follow truth Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 2:13 pm

    For those of us who support our leadership, continue to do so. For those who feel it’s appropriate to make false accusations about some one, that’s ok, we’re in America and we have free speech but when you spit up it comes back down right?. In the two years I have been with TEAM I have learned leadership principles and concepts that have helped and continue to help me in my daily life. I’m thankful for TEAM, Orrin, Chris, Randy, Don, Chuck and all the others along with their wives. Although they remain silent they are being heard and comforted and their requests will be answered “in due time”
  17. Super M Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 2:49 pm

    #913.

    Mike. Please learn basic Theology.

    Also, only if you were able to take advantage of the material that TEAM has to offer. You would definitly not have written anything you just embarrassed yourself with.

    By the way, why are we still giving Tex the time of day. I ignored him the moment he hit the scene.
  18. DY Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 2:56 pm

    To Mike (913):

    Well, well when did this become a religious conflict? Well since you brought it up being a Christian does not mean Christians are perfect, as far as I know there was only one Man that walked this earth who was perfect. As far as I understand it “being” Christian is all about becoming better. As for the “lie” you talk about…opinion is all I can say. As for the training system it seems pretty tranparent to me, they don’t seem to hide anything, AS A MATTER OF FACT TEAM GETS RIDICULED FOR BEING HONEST ABOUT THE SYSTEM AND MONEY FROM IT.

    As for your comment about money from the training system’s what’s the deal…it is just another business within a business.. if you are right then I will BOYCOTT all movie theater’s because they use the same “business within a business” system. Where do you think the majority of money is made at a movie theater, not the ticket to the movie, but the $4.00-5.00 made on popcorn etc. but no one complains they “are making money” off of conessions. There are tons of examples of this system of “BUSINESS’S WITHIN BUSINESS’S” but why all the trash talk here.

    You said “Most of the CDs are trash” Well I know for a fact that they are NOT, but back to the religious thing…there are millions who think the Bible is a load of crap and nothing but folk lore, DOES THAT MAKE THE BIBLE A LIE AND NOT THE WORD OF GOD? Many people think the “Bible is trash”. Again opinion.

    I say good luck to Team too, they will be the one’s who will be respected for what they stood up for! I’m glad you were not around in 1776, we would still be under British Rule.
  19. Chris Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    Re Tex 875.

    Regardless of what is happening in the Quixtar business Tex personal development is the key to a quality of life higher than that which anyone has. My involvement with this business has taught me the value of personal development and I have learned that the more I do the better my life gets and the more money I make in everything that I do. Ten years ago I was a factory worker and today I won a number of my own busineses because of personal development. I spend thousands per year on my own library of books, cds and dvd’s from other motivational and edcuational suppliers other than the Team and I still would continue this course of action even if I was not a Quixtar IBO anymore.

    If you are critizing this fact you obviously don not understand the value of it so you might want to give personal development a try. It might shock you at how much your life can change from study people that have a better quality of life than you do.

    Cheers.
  20. concernedIBO Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    Will the darling of the company Dexter be chastised now along with his sons for not being accredited+ Sure tools could be cheaper! But, look elsewhere in the business world what is paid to attend a motivational seminar on goals, planning etc. Here in detroit area there is a seminar coming up on Goal Setting - that is connected to some well known national speakers. The fee per individual $450 for 3 hours and some literature. There also books available also, being sold at full retail and probably CDs. My point is this: why does Quixtar think the BSMs are so expensive and want to control them. I didn’t see any of the books written by any of the DeVos’s being offered at a discount to IBOs.

    Personally, the lawyers the corporation is using need to be in our world in the field before they are ever hired to represent the corporation. Jim Payne needs the same expereince. All of hyou in positions of authority at the coporation need to read Compassionate Capitalism and understand it!!!

    I don’t like being owned! There is enough of that out here working for other companies!!!!
  21. MarDJay Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 3:43 pm

    Wendy,

    Darling get a grip…you are in so deep you can’t see the forest for the trees.

    Seriously, if you ever reach anywhere near a million I will personally eat crow at your table. You are involved with people that have their agenda at heart not yours….and as far as Quixtar/Amway…they are finally doing what they have needed to do for a long time…clean up businesses like Team…not because they have finally seen their evil ways but because if they don’t they are going to be shut down. So, that is their motive…to stay in business.

    You have never been independant as you so thought you were -IBO- no you have always been owned by Quixtar, that is why you have all those rules you have to abide by and are finally being inforced now by Quixtar. Your Team was being reigned in and they didn’t like it.

    We will see if Quixtar continues to clean up house in the near future.

    Take a break from those CD’s you are going brain dead.
  22. SPARTAN Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 5:03 pm

    On or around Sept 13th we will be allowed to say goodbye to Quixtar. They will fall by the wayside wondering what happened, bitter. Kind of like K-mart fell by the wayside with Wal-mart.

    Goodbye Quixtar, you had a good run for a while, it’s time for LEADERS to take over!
  23. rocket Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 5:24 pm

    Tex # 891. Not gonna get into a whole thing with you about the prices, but I have just ONE question.

    If the prices are so competitive, then why is the total retail volume less than 4% of the actual volume.

    It’s in the lawsuit that Alticor is trying to hush. Have you read it?

    Tex, your denial is baseless. It is fact. Deal with it.
  24. TEAM IBOs, STOP, Be careful about what you say. Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 6:33 pm

    Piet Strydom??!!!WHAT???? To all TEAM IBOs, look, people like this “gentleman” likes to think that he knows what really happened. NEWSFLASH, unless you are going through it now and you’re getting phone calls, e-mails etc…you have no idea, you are just going by what you read and have been told.
    TEAM IBOs, don’t set the record straight for these people. Remember, the more you try to defend TEAM the more risk you run of divulging what really happened. I too feel the temptation of telling all these Quixtar supporters the truth but, DON’T. Read the blogs, laugh at them, be entertained and whatever. Sit back and wait. Soon you’ll be able to sit back and read new blogs from these same people who, once they find out what really happened to us and what’s going to happen to them, will be writing similar stuff that you are writing now. I’m not trying to be mean and wait in anxious anticipation for someone else’s fall (although I have to confess it feels that way) but it’s a bit frustraing. There are some people who only learn one way, the hard way. So…what can you do? I repeat. If and when you receive any calls from Quixtar, don’t blog about the nature of the conversations. Soon enough all that will come into light. Try to hang on a little longer. Relish in the knowledge what you know the truth and you know what these other Quixtar IBOs will soon to find out. If it’s too hard, don’t read these blogs. There are a thousand other fun things to do on the internet. Just thought I’d send some encouragement to all the TEAM IBOs who may be frustrated by these “truths” out there.
  25. mike Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 6:57 pm

    each ibo, whether just starting or not (if on premier) get’s cds for 2.50/books at 20% discount. which is listed. So if a new ibo has people not on premier. 2.5 - 7.00. videos.books regular price. (anyone, new ibo’s too)

    there is no download stuf

    platinums don’t make money on books & CDs. Websites,voicemails, internew (isp), functions (majors).

    I am not mike 913.

    Platinums do not establish price. The WWDB management team does. 20 of largest diamond orgs in WWDB.

    All ibo’s can make money on tools. They can retail our voice mail system also.
    Platinums/emeralds/diamonds. in relation to the organizations they established.
  26. makingadifference Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 7:08 pm

    To Piet Strydom and Mike:

    Here are the facts gentlemen. Yes, Amway did $6,000,000,000 in all 80 countries. It is also true that virtually all of that was purchased by people inside the business and that only 3.5% went to customers. A classic illegal pyramid.

    Second, the name change to Team from TOD was because of google searches ending up at places like Amway/Quixtar/AlticorSucks and had to do with negative writings about Quixtar over team by a ratio of 15,000 to one!

    Third, Team is the only English speaking organization that has grown in North America. 5 of the 6 founders emeralds and above that have broke since 1999 (yes you read that right only 6 founders emeralds and above since 1999) were from the TEAM organization.

    Fourth, the fact that only 3.5% of sales go to customers outside the business which is illegal and the heart of the Lawsuit HAS NOT BEEN DISPUTED BY ANYTHING IN WRITING COMING FROM ALTICOR, QUIXTAR, AMWAY, THE IBOAI BOARD, OR FOUNDERS COUNCIL. The same can be said for the Lawsuits in India, and the UK.

    Fifth, most board members, including those from TEAM, have literally begged the corporation for marketable products for years and more significantly, to allow the organizations to tell prospects up front about the tools business. The corporation has consistently responded by threatening them with suspension if they do. Why?, because there are platinums making most of thier income from the compensation plan, but for years now anyone making real money, where you don’t need a job, is doing through the tools and speaking business. Gary VanDerven and Tom Payne both told Chuck Goetschel and others THERE IS NOTHING ILLEGAL ABOUT TEAM APPROACH AND THERE IS NOTHING ILLEGAL ABOUT MAKING INCOME FROM OTHER SOURCES (TOOLS) IN THE BUSINESS. It is also a fact that all of the tools used by TEAM, TEAM 5000, Legacy and others named in the lawsuit were approved by Quixtar! (they were content reviewed).

    Sixth, the board since notice in writing that they were unanimously against it. Quixtar’s response? They immediately canceled the Boards contract and put them on a month to month agreement! How secure are you feeling about your represetation as an IBO?

    Seventh: In the P&G Lawsuit, Randy didn’t spread anything. He simply passed down a whole bunch of voicemails, one of which had the P&G Satan rumor reference. Did P&G go after the person who originated the voicemail? NO, they didn’t have any money. How about the many people throughout the network (remember Randy had over 20 diamonds) who also passed the message down? No.

    Eighth, Quixtar’s press releases says they were telling Orrin & Chris for a long time about thier “bad business building practices” and that they were terminated. A lie pure and simple. Orrin & Chris resigned well before the termination, and they had been working closely with Quixtar on Team Approach and had Quixtar’s approval.

    Finally, don’t confuse this with other cases where Quixtar/Amway won in court over individual diamonds like Brig Hart. TEAM by itself would be one thing but teamed up with Billy Florence, Chuck Goetschel, Randy Haugen, Bill Newton and a few others TEAM is in fact about 40% of the business. (It is only when you look at TEAM before this that Quixtar can say they are maybe 15%). Never before has Quixtar faced what they are facing now. TEAM will be the organization that fundamentally brings back the intentions of the founding fathers by changing the political, business, legal, and educational systems in America. GO TEAM!

    PLEASE DON’T TAKE MY WORD FOR THIS. YOU CAN READ FOR YOURSELF THE REAL STORY ON FREETHEIBO.COM FROM CHUCK GOETSCHEL, BILL NEWTON, AND RON SIMMONS WHO WERE ALL THERE WHEN THIS TOOK PLACE. ALSO I RECOMMEND YOU ACTUALLY READ THE LAWSUIT, THERE’S NO ARGUING WITH IT.
  27. Victoria Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 7:09 pm

    Jay #896, No, sorry but I do know what I know. I am smack dab in the middle of it and when it’s all over, I know I will be better and stronger. Life happens and you go on!
  28. New Platinum Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 7:33 pm

    Hi to you all.

    I’m a long time IBO 18+years and this is my 1st year at Platinum…Maybe this fact will get you all the hear me better. I’m not bashing TEAM Or QUIXTAR but if the stats say 3% of all sales are from retail? How do they get this stat? I’ll tell you, it is a M/C or now Client Reporting part of out site that is
    auto capture feature and it is also self reported????? What if the self reporting was faked??? Folks, I’m most of the time getting it done right but I’m full time sales person with a 25 year past of full commission sales.

    I’m a part of this problem… I have facked my reprting many times to get my check and I only know of 1 -3 out of hundreds that in my group that also do it right. Sad but true and all of you know this…. It’s going to be interesting.

    I’m not on TEAM but they are fighting a just fight.

    I love Quixtar but I’m starting feel I’m on the wronge TEAM.

    Are we legal??? If this point I make is true we are NOT! And this can & will be proved.
  29. Greg Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 7:51 pm

    Brian,
    Your 567 response is right on. Had there been an internet 30 years ago to document so many people being ripped off over the years, most of the systems, if not all, would have been long gone. I would invite “team” or any other system IBO to check out the various blogs bashing systems etc. It doesn’t take a genious to see why A/Q’s has a bad reputation. It sure wasn’t from our so called over priced poor quality products. There is life after systems. Ask the diamond from Japan. Read post 641.
    This is a business where you sell products to consumers and teach other to build a network of people that want to do the same. If someone got into this business just for the personal growth thing, they got in for the wrong reason. Or did people get in with “team” because they were promised money for promoting the system. If this is so, it was wrong. There’s nothing in the A/Q application that talks about selling tools being part of the bonus plan!
    If Woodward is really as good as team IBO’s say he is, he should have no trouble peddling his personal growth business without A/Q. Give it a try Orrin and see how well you do fighting the FTC alone as you try to defend an illegal tool payout scheme!
    I’m not against personal growth. This is a good thing, but the tool system idea should be sold completly seperate from the A/Q business. Team people should be told right up front that they are really sales people for Orrin Woodwards personal growth business.
    Have you ever wondered why the various BSM systems always need to parasite off a company that has legitmate products. Without this, Woodward and the rest of the system leaders would have to go head to head with ligitimate persoanl growth professionals. No one is stopping them from doing this.
    Give it a try systems! You say you don’t need A/Q. We’ll see about that…
  30. Cathy Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 9:30 pm

    Someone in one of these blogs made a comment about how little Amway’s business will be impacted when TEAM IBO’s go. They quoted a figure of TEAM maybe being 15% of Amway business.
    Hmmm, I think someone needs to run the numbers again. Their math just does NOT work!! This suit doesn’t just involve TEAM, after all. It’s also Legacy and 5 K, and other teams, too.
    And what about Canada?? Legacy ALONE is responsible for approximately 25% to as high as 40% of Amway’s Canadian business! TEAM was gaining foothold there, too, as were the other groups involved. Does anyone honestly think the Canadian leaders are going to lay down passively while their U.S. upline get crucified by Amway, and not do or say SOMEthing??
    Claude Hamilton was Canada’s equal of a Navy SEAL. Those guys don’t take ANYthing laying down. Mark Crawford is his LOS mentor, who is likely leading the charge! These were the KRAKOOSH Magazine white water rafter cover guys, after all . . . They don’t do it 1/2 way or back down when it’s hard!!
    This battle is FAR from over, and WON’T just be in the U.S. Hang on to your seats, kids. It’s going to be a bumpy ride.
  31. Donovan Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 10:16 pm

    #907 Piet:

    You wrote:

    Q/A sold in excess of $6 000 000 000.00 last fiscal year. If Team thinks the products aren’t viable, at least some other people think that they are! XS made up a very small portion of that.

    WELL . . .

    Since most of that money came from IBO’s, that kinda confirms that claims of the lawsuit doesn’t it?
  32. Tex Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 11:06 pm

    Faith #900,

    Tranparent? How much? Do tell.

    sak #905,

    Where did I say I personally knew Ron or Chuck?

    Piet #906,

    Amway didn’t pay the $19 million, Randy and the other guilty Diamonds had to pay it. I think it came out of the insurance we all pay for. Amway did have to pay for the negative publicity this bonehead move by Randy caused, however.

    joe #909,

    We know Amway makes a lot of money from the products. They take the vast majority of the risk, they deserve the profit. The tool companies HIDE their profits and talk about how Amway made them rich. Big difference. Big. Huge. Difference.

    Cathy #910,

    Until your upline coughs up their level of tool profits, they get no sympathy from me.

    Joe #911,

    Think of all the extra money that would be available for bonuses if Amway didn’t have to keep protecting themselves and us from the likes of Orrin.

    Wendi #912/3,

    Taking my friends’ money? I thought I was selling them quality products that will improve their lives? Oh, I guess TEAM didn’t teach that, did they? They are so busy pushing their tools at Opens and Seminars, there’s no time left to go over “details” like retailing. I tried to get on freetheibo, it is shut down for “maintenance”.

    I read it. That’s when I realized Orrin has all the cash flow, and it was flowing from my wallet to his, so I could listen to his ridiculous stories.

    Mike #914,

    What you are saying about TEAM is true about the other tool systems as well.
  33. Disgusted Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 11:09 pm

    I have read this entire articale. And you, gentlemen, are so full of sh*#, your eyes must be brown. I doubt many IBOs are going to by your BS. I do agree, let Orin and all the Team GO - NOW, with no strings attached. If the TEAM approach is so BADDDDD, this should be an easy decision for you to NOT enforce your silly non compete clause. RIGHT? I have built a business for ten years under the non Team approach and it is not EVER going to work, especially with the fabulous E commerece model. The Team approach does work, has been absolutley sanction by the IBO board (that is before your fired them and removed their strastegic influence over the company which they have enjoyed for thirty years). Let the BADDDD people go, that is all that Orin and the tremendous, long experienced leaders ask. The fact that they called you on the carpet for your absurd pricing and influece controls, I understand why you are so outrageous in trying to slander the Team and keep everyone from know the real truth. You all are MADE MEN, every diamond knows this dirty little secret.
  34. david Says:
    August 23rd, 2007 at 11:52 pm

    #872 Ash

    I was wondering when someone would bring this up so I will answer this one.
    1995 Amway was approx. 95% Anglo / English speaking and 5% misc. Ethnic groups

    2007 Quixtar is 40% ethnic and 60% Anglo
    I have watched the Spanish, Korean, Indian, business thrive the last few years.
    Quixtar has a “hands off” policy for these growing ethnic groups.

    I have a large Spanish business and I know this first hand.
    They are allowed to say what they want, make any claims they want, and give out any tools they want.
    Not my English business. I am very limited to what I can say, can’t make any claims / guarantees, and my tools have to be content reviewed.

    This, and the fact that most of the negative online is not translated, are the primary reasons for the “Ethnic” growth.

    Truth is,Quixtar LOVES the ethnic business! Kanti & Sergio are very quiet on the board and their groups move most of the “core line ” products.
  35. truely sorry to quixtar ibo's Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 12:08 am

    This link says it all. There is so much that’s been kept hidden. Get the truth out. So far the Quixtar opportunity HAS been the best opportunity out there, for the team and all Quixtar IBO’s we’ve been building the same business you all have!! we just build depth first then width. (Which there’s nothing wrong with massive depth building) The company just needed something to point the finger at the TEAM when it was accused of being illegal.

    Could there be something better on the way?
    Nutrilite…Amway…WoodwardE-Mart?

    http://crazyfunwildworld.blogspot.com/2007/08/team-board-member-chuck-goetschel.html
  36. Mary Ann Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 12:51 am

    I wish Tex would stop posting. He’s beginning to give my state a bad name.
  37. Leigh Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 1:05 am

    I am a recent “adoption” into TEAM (thank you Orrin and Chris for welcoming us with open arms!)and I must say that this article is a diversion. Quixtar wants us all to think that the issue is stacking… we all know perfectly well that the issue is outrageous prices. It is EVERYONE’S #1 objection, even people who have a lot of money to work with.

    I also must say that I did not learn “stacking” from TEAM. I’ve been building a business for nearly two years and the first CD I heard about “stacking” was by Jody Victor. They didn’t call it stacking, of course… but truth, as I see it, is that many Diamonds saw the value of Team Approach and put it into practice… Orrin Woodward and all the MANY others that are supporting his position were the only ones bold enough and full of enough character to put their businesses (very large ones, at that) on the line and stand up for the little guys… like me. Therefore, Quixtar attacks only them, even though other Diamonds (or Crowns…) are building their businesses with “stacking” techniques that ACTUALLY WORK and give people HOPE! So, please look at the real issues here.

    On a personal note:
    Thank you Orrin and all the other Diamonds who are fighting. You are courageous. You give me hope that the country that my children grow up in will still have leaders with integrity that parallel that of our founding fathers.
  38. mex Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 4:20 am

    Gerald McNiece (come on man how much they paid you??
    this is nat japan is america we are fighting for our future in this company and we want to be free…….
  39. mex Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 4:25 am

    the people of the IBOAI know something about quixtar plan to us,,,,,,,,and it’s not GOOD…
    ohh!!but we cant go,we must to stay for 6 month and 2years to find something,,OK FIDEL CASTRO RULES,,,,,AMWAY CUBA SEP 2007
  40. Piet Strydom Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 6:23 am

    To Wendi:

    Your platinum’s tool volume tripled. What happened to his downline’s costs?

    This is the underlying problem with TEAM’s approach:
    1. a very small proportion of IBO’s make platinum.
    2. In the TEAM model, emphasising depth the profitability of IBO’s is very low.
    3. Emphasising tools, the profitability of IBO’s is further reduced.
    3. These facts combine to disillusion the vast majority of people that gets exposed to the business via team (of destiny). Hence all the negatives on the internet.
  41. Victoria Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 8:52 am

    By the way, they only let certain blogs pass. If whoever mederates these blogs don’t like something that you say, against Quixtar, then they don’t post it. How nice.
  42. Vicki Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 9:15 am

    Does it not concern anyone that by posting on this blog Alticor is keeping track of our thoughts and motivations? Does it not bother anyone that they have the power to terminate our contracts at any time? Does it not bother anyone that noncompete clauses are present that we had no say in and that were not present years ago when some of us signed in? Does it not bother us that non-compete clauses have been ruled illegal in most cases (as, for instance, in cases of independent contractors in other businesses, who may contract with their time and services as they see fit). How many of us have downline who are distributors in other companies besides Quixtar, but we have assured them that this is not a big problem? And why is it that the injunction the “IBOAI” (or what is left of it) is seeking today is against violation of trade secrets, namely, statistics and information quoted in the California lawsuit. If those allegations/statistics are true, not only are they not “trade secrets,” but they are things that we as Independent Business Owners should have been made aware of about a company we were affiliating with! There is no mention of product development etc. in the lawsuit, which could be legitimate violation of “trade secrets.” Is the “Jay factor” a trade secret? It is something we as IBO’s should have been aware of long before now - but were not! There is no allegation in the “IBOAI” injunction that the facts are in error, only that they are “trade secrets!” Again, this is scary knowing that we are being monitored on this blog in order to exercise free speech! Give name and e-mail address… we might as well supply our IBO numbers too. Way to go, Quixtar.
  43. Victoria Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 9:18 am

    I’m rewriting this for the second time b/c they did not let this pass the first time.
    TEAM IBOs, be careful that you don’t blog about the nature of your phone, e-mail or fax communications with Quixtar. Just know what you know, be content with it, sit back and wait. It’s not our place to enlighten non TEAM IBOs about what’s really going on. I don’t mean to be mean spirited but let’s face it, the truth hurts and some people are not prepared to hear it. Let each find out in his own time, his own way what is and what isn’t. What’s more, some people just learn one way and one way only. The hard way. It’s not our place to give anyone a “heads up” or anything of that nature. Be careful about what you unwillingly divulge, out of anger and frustration, when you try to defend TEAM in your blogs. Think folks. Let’s pretend that your are a CEO of a major company. You just left the boardroom after a very important and private meeting. Are you going to go online and blog about the nature of what went on in that meeting? No. Why? Because it’s not good business protocol, unprofessional and possibly damaging to your reputation and that of your business. Having said that, be encouraged by what you know to be the truth. These people are not going through it, they are only going by what they themselves read, living vicariously through someone else’s idea of “truth” Please, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, respect Quixtar and its affiliations. No matter what you read about in these blogs from people who claim to know the “truth”, conduct yourselves with professional decorum, (sp?)and as a business person with class. Be well and be encouraged. I’m going to enjoy life and the sun, take a break from all this internet chatter, I won’t be blogging again for a while. Good luck to each of you and go out and enjoy the rest of the summer.
  44. Tex Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 11:23 am

    Disgusted #934,

    Rules are rules. How does it feel to be twisting in the wind when you break the rules and won’t correct yourselves?

    david #935,

    Are these groups in the U.S., or overseas? If overseas, have you checked out what is going on in the UK, Russia, and India? If the U.S., provide some specific examples. Are they using their foreign language when doing these things? Non-anglo ethnic groups are known to have closer social ties, so this isn’t much of a surprise to me.

    truely sorry to quixtar ibo’s #936,

    It’s not about stacking, it’s about improper stacking. It is also about improper positioning of the business and unapproved tools (which we need to know a lot more about).

    Mary Ann #937,

    I represent “your state” quite well. Why don’t you want to know the facts? Have something to hide? Sounds to me like you’re all hat, no cattle.

    Leigh #938,

    Those arms of Orrin and Chris are open so they can hold all of the tool profit money you are sending their way.

    Piet #941,

    It isn’t much different for the other groups, they don’t make much profit either. Most IBO’s have a net loss because of tool prices, regardless of structure.

    Victoria #942,

    Incorrect. I have posted many things critical of Quixtar. I have also been banned by the freetheibo forum, for merely asking questions. How nice.

    Vicki #943,

    I’m not concerned.

    Victoria #944,

    Go back and read 943 and 944 again, together. Going out in public is EXACTLY what Orrin and Co. did. You can’t have it both ways, Victoria.
  45. MLM sucks Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 1:20 pm

    Im finished with both. Unless quixtar lowers prices and gets products that arent terrible or the team stops trying to brainwash everyone they come across nothing will make me want to continue this.

    The team system however has helped me a great deal. The books are my favorite and I plan on finishing the top 25 with or without a business because they are very helpful in life.

    Good luck to all and to all dont ever offer me a internet business again.
  46. CE Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 1:27 pm

    Let’s chose sides and spit at each other, eh?
  47. Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 2:00 pm

    Paul Meyers, Dave Wills, rnffemt: Each of you have posted one or more comments over the last several days that are slightly over our suggested 2-3 paragraph rule. Provided you are willing to resubmit your otherwise well-written thoughts in shorter lengths, we’d be happy to post them here.

    Folks: As we approach 1,000 comments on this post, we may close out comments at that mark. We may also paginate comments in groups of 100 to speed up page loads. Whether we close out comments on this post or not, rest assured that this post will remain intact, and that you may continue to join conversations on other posts.

    Lastly, if there are any technical questions related to this or other posts, ask away.
  48. Tex Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 5:09 pm

    MLM sucks #945,

    How about Amway?

    CE #946,

    No thanks. That’s gross.

    Admin,

    Thanks.
  49. az says Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 6:19 pm

    A TRUE leader w/ integrity expects to be believed or they wait until time proves them RIGHT!!!! Orin and Chris didnt need to post nasty blogs because they dont need to be defensive 5 yr olds. They will wait for time to prove them right. GO TEAM..We are w/ you all the way.
  50. Tex Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 9:00 pm

    az #949,

    Are you trying to claim TEAM has an ounce of integrity? A true leader with integrity doesn’t mislead their followers into thinking they make most of their money via Quixtar, instead of what TEAM and other upline do through tool profits.
  51. makingadifference Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 9:19 pm

    TO PIET STRYDOM:

    Your numbers are both wrong and outdated. First of all a higher percentage of people make platinum in the TEAM organization than any other organization, and they do it in just under half the average time. That comes directly from former board member Chuck Goetschel who has forgotten more about integrity and this business than most of you writing your comments will ever know.

    Second, the low profitability of team IBOs was true only until DOT1/STEP and that caused Orrins pv to surge by 10,000,000pv in the first year alone. So now as a Turbo 25 or above the income from both tools and pv is higher than any other organization and a higher percentage of IBOs on TEAM reach this level of income than any other organization.

    These facts come from now ex board members who actually know. One other thing, I have heard personally from one of these folks that the remaining board members are just as upset with the corporations upcoming changes as the mighty 15 who had the guts to stand up for what’s right. But they said things like, well, what can we do? And, “I think I can spin it”. If your an IBO outside of TEAM that’s what your leaders are doing.

    Too bad. I believe we will have to wait six months but TEAM will be the largest and most important organization of any kind and will go down in history as having saved our country from the moral decline we are presently in. If you don’t think that’s going to happen you have no idea how strong the Leadership of TEAM is, the depth of the relationships, the commitment to doing whats right. I just wonder if you simply don’t really know what the TEAM is or you are simply the kind of person I wouldn’t want to go to war with. My guess is that you are a person of good moral character like most people in this business that is just not fully informed about TEAM.

    Let me put it in perspective for you. All Quixtar organizations I know of (including the ones who reluctantly stayed)are organizations led by people of great moral character and principle. But there has never before in history, in a business, in a military, in a religious or political organization been anything like the TEAM. And I’ve been part of three different Amway or Quixtar organizations.
  52. DY Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 10:02 pm

    Tex,

    Hey I have an idea…WHY DON’T YOU JUST GIVE IT UP AND GET A LIFE!
  53. thewatchman Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 10:59 pm

    men of integrity? By whose standards? everyone who is with team has been brainwashed into thinking their going to make to to the top if they try hard enough. But if they fail its your own fault. I was once told by a team member if brainwashing with positive information works, use it, problem is whose version of positive thinking are they using. its the method cults use to get members. give them a goal they can’t refuse. anyways, I was thinking about joining team but did research and found team websites and members say the same thing their cds say and no one thinks for themselves. i’m not against team or for quixtar. I’m just tired hearing how much of a good man woodard is. if this is true why he require you to join team before he even talks to you? second if he wants the best for you, why would his team model require you to sell things important to you to come up with the $270 to join team, but let someone from team help you sell products from the website to raise money so you can go to the major events? what it boils down to woodward and brady got to the top and became like bill gates and wanted to remove the competition. with alticor/quixtar out of the way he have to majority of the monopoly. all woodard did is change pyramid to multi-level marketing and made it look good. also why would someone making 1500 dollars a day quit that to sell cds? alticor was just in his way. if woodard was upset with quixtar’s prices then why did he stay with them for so long? a man of integrity would never subject himself to such a practice unless he was greedy himself. and as for (pastor)robert dickie a man of god would not teach/sell team plans from the pulpit. you spread GOD’s (not) orrin woodward words.
  54. Bill Smith Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 11:54 pm

    I’m embarrassed with this response from Quixtar.

    As an emerald in the business, I’ve been around the block a few times and know fact from fiction. If you’re not in leadership, on the inside, know how it all works, then you may actually believe this spin. This statement from Amway is embarrassing for anyone who’s been in the business for awhile. I’m embarrassed for the DeVos and VanAndle families for spin like this. I’m used to hearing this type of crap on Air America with Al Frankin but not here as a sacred IBO powered by Quixtar.

    Read between the lines. Amway is “Posturing” for a legal reason. Read Chuck’s letter and also Bill Newton’s from August 20th and use your head. Amway will be in court fighting for its survival in California. No one has ever taken on Amway and won. Of course, no one had the guts to take on the negative bloggers except Orin and he won.

    They won’t fight a clean fight, they will spin (Lie) to get their way. The lawyers are running the show. If they lose, it may sink them in North America. Believe me, the loyalty did run deep and no one wants that happen but when we read letters like this, it outrages me and creates a challenge to compete with these dogs and kick their butts.
  55. makingadifference Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 5:19 am

    thewatchman:

    I’ve been involved with three different organizations and TEAM is the first where all of Round Table has equal say in the tools business and where the lower level leaders actually learned how to think rather than just follow in the teachings of their particular system. Exactly the opposite of what you are insinuating. I remember when I used to think that anyone outside of Yager was a morally corrupt organization and would bad mouth WWDB and others out of ignorance. Over the years I’ve learned that all of the organizations are led by leaders of rare and very high integrity, including those that have been terminated by Q. The problem is and always has been the Corporation. They have turned the ship over to attorneys and have no idea what we really do and what really built their business. All of the remaining Board members who stayed (regardless of what Quixtar’s attorney’s published in the name of the Board and Founders Council) are still good friends with the mighty 15, and all of them are very upset and disturbed with the upcoming business changes. The greatest tragedy is that not only did Quixtar lie about 15 or 20 promised reasonably priced products (”were working on it”), but every leader of every large organization for years has begged Quixtar to let them be completely upfront about the tools business. Quixtar didn’t want to be exposed to prospects that the owners take too big of a cut on the products but you could still build a very successful business through the tools system. Consequently, virtually all of the Lawsuits against Quixtar, and between IBOs, and a lot of the critisism on the internet is about the tools business. TEAM is the first organization to create a completely up front, fair, lawsuit proof system, where all the leaders have equal say. Do you really think men like Billy Florence, Randy Haugen, Don Wilson, and Chuck Goetschel would join an organization without being absolutely sure of who and what they were joining?

    Hey don’t know how long you’ve been around but I can tell you this, those who have built large organizations in the field are men of impeccable character. There isn’t a drop of ego in the truly big leaders. That is is to say, not a drop of an unhealthy, selfish ego. They all have large healthy egos with a servants heart. The ones who stayed simply feel trapped.

    What you are about to see unfold over the next ten years will clarify the truth for you. Know why you believe what you believe. TEAM is unlike anything we’ve seen since our founding fathers, or those who followed Martin Luther, or those who stood up against slavery. Like in the case of George W. Bush, who I’ve no doubt you have joined the masses in your opinion of (as they did to Churchill, Lincoln, George Washington) history will record Orrin Woodward as a great man who truly made a difference in the world and who’s leadership lives on through countless millions over the centuries.
  56. Tex Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 9:21 am

    makingadifference #951,

    If Chuck Goetschel has so much integrity, and TEAM makes so much money from tools, why not post the numbers here?

    There is no way you can claim depth is more profitable than width. The math doesn’t support you.

    Nothing ever like TEAM? How many TEAM members have died for what they believe in, like our Founding Fathers did, or the people who died in ANY American war? Get off these goof-ball ideas, please. On second thought, don’t. We want to ensure it is easy to identify you and people of your ilk.

    DY #952,

    I have an idea. Get lost. I’ll never give up exposing the truth regarding the tool profits. And I have a life, thank you very much.

    thewatchman #953,

    Good points. Most of them are also true about the other tool businesses as well. TEAM is a mere blip on the radar. A much larger issue regarding massive tool profit exists that MUST also be cleaned up.
  57. George's Girl Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 11:37 am

    Tex, just what is it about tool profits that you have a problem with? You rant and rave like that is such a crime. Can you read??? The TEAM has WANTED to disclose and share tool profits with prospects, but they were FORBIDDEN by Quixtar to do so. A whole chapter in the book written specifically for prospects had to be re-written with all references to tool profits left out.

    For your info, that is the ONLY time Quixtar ever threatened Brady’s or Woodward’s with suspension. Why is it that Quixtar is so against this disclosure? That is the question you need to ask.

    As for excessive profits, (a CD costs no more than 50 cents…) at Amazon, the cheapest price for a USED Zig Ziglar CD is $7.98; Tony Robbins = $14.95; Brian Tracy for $11.12. John Maxwell, a christian leadership “guru” charges $199 for a package of 24 CDs, or $8.29 each. His tape/CD of the week program is $14 per CD.

    Tony Robbins does a four day seminar for $895 per person. (I could not find costs of any others he does.) Brian Tracy does one-hour tele-seminars for $99. (You go to a location to see a live feed of the seminar.) A John Maxwell seminar ticket goes for $160 for four hours. Other Sales or Motivational events: one is $329 for eight hours; another is $1,500 for two days. (The costs are hard to find because few put them on there websites.)

    As for excessive profits, why don’t you ask Quixtar employees how much they pay for core products. Tell me how much the mark-up is.
  58. freedom of choice Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 12:41 pm

    I have seen many claims all over blogs complaining about TEAM and their leaders deceiving everyone. To me it’s simple. Why would Chris and Orrin want to leave? To make more money?? Haha! That’s funny, they don’t need anymore money. Do people realize how much time it’s going to take for them to make up for all the money they are shelling out for all these court cases? They simply wanted what was best for the new IBO and the company would not listen. The issue is TEAM has been deceived by the Company. I don’t know how many times Orrin would come back from a meeting with the company excited becasue he thought they would be doing things to help everyone’s business (lowering prices etc), to only have nothing done. It’s on old CDs where he would talk about Quixtar coming up with a top 25 product line that was competitively priced.
    As for the tools business, it has always been clear that money is made of tools. People on this blog say no one will tell them percentages or how mcuh. I hope all of you realize this is because Quixtar will not allow them. TEAM pleaded with Quixtar to let them disclose tool money, but were not allowed to. In their book, Leading the Consumer Rebellion, they were required to take out the section that explained tool money. By the way, the top lawyers in the country have looked at the profit sharing plan for tools, and have said it’s the BEST plan of any direct sales company they have ever seen. Has anyone ever thought that if the profit margin on the product side were to increase by lowering prices and having no J-factor, that the profit margin/cost of tools could go down? Just some thoughts.
  59. Tex Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    Bill #954,

    I’m embarrassed with this response from Quixtar. [Which response are you talking about?]

    As an emerald in the business, I’ve been around the block a few times and know fact from fiction. [Good. Tell us the facts. The tool profit is a great place to start.]

    If you’re not in leadership, on the inside, know how it all works, then you may actually believe this spin. [I stopped believing the spin over 2 years ago.]

    This statement from Amway is embarrassing for anyone who’s been in the business for awhile. [How so?]

    I’m embarrassed for the DeVos and VanAndle families for spin like this. I’m used to hearing this type of crap on Air America with Al Frankin but not here as a sacred IBO powered by Quixtar. [Good, tell us the truth.]

    Read between the lines. Amway is “Posturing” for a legal reason. Read Chuck’s letter and also Bill Newton’s from August 20th and use your head. [Don’t talk like an Emerald (pin), talk like a person. Explain.]

    Amway will be in court fighting for its survival in California. No one has ever taken on Amway and won. Of course, no one had the guts to take on the negative bloggers except Orin and he won. [Orrin didn’t win, he just bans you from his forum.]

    They won’t fight a clean fight, they will spin (Lie) to get their way. [The courts are never a clean fight, what rock do you think we are hiding under, Bill?]

    The lawyers are running the show. If they lose, it may sink them in North America. [True, what if they win, a much more likely scenario?]

    Believe me, the loyalty did run deep and no one wants that happen but when we read letters like this, it outrages me and creates a challenge to compete with these dogs and kick their butts. [Bill, you haven’t said much in this post. If “Bill Smith” isn’t your real name, I suggest you tell us what group you are an Emerald in (a current Emerald, or wearing an Emerald pin?) and how much tool profit the typical Platinum and above makes in your group.]
  60. Tex Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 1:33 pm

    makingadifference #955,

    thewatchman:

    I’ve been involved with three different organizations and TEAM is the first where all of Round Table has equal say in the tools business and where the lower level leaders actually learned how to think rather than just follow in the teachings of their particular system. [No they don’t, they are very much like the other groups. I have several thousand tapes from all the major groups to prove what I say is true.]

    Exactly the opposite of what you are insinuating. I remember when I used to think that anyone outside of Yager was a morally corrupt organization and would bad mouth WWDB and others out of ignorance. [Where did you get these ideas from?]

    Over the years I’ve learned that all of the organizations are led by leaders of rare and very high integrity, including those that have been terminated by Q. [They have all never explained the corp is preventing them from disclosing the massive tool profits, and did the corp tell them to leave the prices high so they could make massive profits?]

    The problem is and always has been the Corporation. [Partially, yes. They should have followed through during the early ’80’s “Directly Speaking” fiasco.]

    They have turned the ship over to attorneys and have no idea what we really do and what really built their business. [They know what you do, you make most of your money on tools and TEAM will get slaughtered in the California suit based on this fact.]

    All of the remaining Board members who stayed (regardless of what Quixtar’s attorney’s published in the name of the Board and Founders Council) are still good friends with the mighty 15, and all of them are very upset and disturbed with the upcoming business changes. [They have a funny way of (not) showing their displeasure.]

    The greatest tragedy is that not only did Quixtar lie about 15 or 20 promised reasonably priced products (”were working on it”), but every leader of every large organization for years has begged Quixtar to let them be completely upfront about the tools business. [Disagree. The leaders could have reduced their tool prices, the leaders could have posted anonymously on blogs.]

    Quixtar didn’t want to be exposed to prospects that the owners take too big of a cut on the products but you could still build a very successful business through the tools system. [Prove it. I have asked the corp the same question, and the utter silence leads me to believe you are correct on this isolated issue.]

    Consequently, virtually all of the Lawsuits against Quixtar, and between IBOs, and a lot of the critisism on the internet is about the tools business. [Completely true.]

    TEAM is the first organization to create a completely up front, fair, lawsuit proof system, where all the leaders have equal say. [How about the IBO’s having a say as well?After all, the upline calls us their “business partners” and “teammates”.]

    Do you really think men like Billy Florence, Randy Haugen, Don Wilson, and Chuck Goetschel would join an organization without being absolutely sure of who and what they were joining? [I know they were sure what they were joining, a more profitable tool system.]

    Hey don’t know how long you’ve been around but I can tell you this, those who have built large organizations in the field are men of impeccable character. [Characters, for sure. Lack of character is the accurate term.]

    There isn’t a drop of ego in the truly big leaders. That is is to say, not a drop of an unhealthy, selfish ego. They all have large healthy egos with a servants heart. The ones who stayed simply feel trapped. [Large egos that serve their own greedy tool profit directed hearts.]

    What you are about to see unfold over the next ten years will clarify the truth for you. [Ten years? How about clearing this up in 10 days or less?]

    Know why you believe what you believe. TEAM is unlike anything we’ve seen since our founding fathers, or those who followed Martin Luther, or those who stood up against slavery. [I prefer you not use TEAM and Founding Fathers or Martin Luther in the same sentence, unless you are comparing opposites.]

    Like in the case of George W. Bush, who I’ve no doubt you have joined the masses in your opinion of (as they did to Churchill, Lincoln, George Washington) history will record Orrin Woodward as a great man who truly made a difference in the world and who’s leadership lives on through countless millions over the centuries. [History will remember Orrin as helping blow up the tool profit secret. Not his intention, but that’s the result.]
  61. rico Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 3:10 pm

    Tex,

    You ought to apply for a job at Amway. You seem to know everything there is to know on every subject. They could probably learn a lot from you.

    You really seem to be one of the wisest people posting here. Maybe you could fix the Iraq war, solve the AIDS problem in Africa, and stop world hunger while your at it.

    Sometimes people have valid points but the point may get lost in a condescending and intimidating manner. If someone wants people to listen to them, they need to be respectful to those who disagree with them. (The first two paragraphs are an example of what not to do. Probably after reading them, you’ve totally shut down to hearing my point.)

    I would prescriptively suggest reading Personality Plus and How to Win Friends and Influence People. These books are available through the TEAM resources. Whatever tools you’ve been using don’t seem to be helping your communication style.
  62. DY Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 4:15 pm

    TEX, TRUTH???? LOL Blah Blah Blah
  63. Lois &mike Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 5:35 pm

    I am so offended to be called property of Quixtar! They have some audacity to do that! No matter what, your prices are still way to high! As long as you treat your IBO’s this way Devos will never be elected as governor! Obviously the IBOIA is in bed with Quixtar!!!!
  64. Lois &mike Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 5:36 pm

    Oh yeah why haven’t Quixtar mentioned the restraining orders against them from across the states?
  65. thewatchman Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 5:43 pm

    haha, this just gets more interesting as it goes along. why would chris and orrin want more money when they have enough already??? Why does does bill gates still sell software? even though hes a billionaire? its power they want, the power to make people think ,buy ,sell and run business they way they think is right. after all the greatest example they use is the mcdonalds model of business, ahhh mcdonalds does not exactly have the best hamburgers in the world.. they also make the example of amway of being like a model-T and team like a sports car. Im not for team or amway. Im just against people claiming to have integrity, when they go to court crying because they because quixtar’s prices. when in reality team stayed with quixtar for so long. orrin and crew probably hoped it go their way, but it did’t just like any other cult who tries to change the thinking and the way of life in the world. team cds are all same, same message different person preaching how we all need to quit jobs, and rebel against the system and make more money. team has a saying for people who dont want any part of the team, Continue to be a slave to the clock and the system.
  66. thewatchman Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 5:48 pm

    oh and by the way when you talk to a team member and they think you got personality issues, they will tell you to listen to such and such cd and after while you’ll have a positve outlook on life.
    its more like you’ve just your brain wash with team soap, used to buy off the quixtar website.
  67. Tex Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 6:52 pm

    George’s Girl #957,

    I know what you just said, I have seen it many times the past few days. My point is, now that Orrin is no longer an IBO, tell us the tool profit level. The difference with him and all the other examples, is NONE of them claim to be our “business partners” or “teammates”. I have purchased well over 10,000 tapes and CD’s from various LOS’s on the internet (including TEAM/TOD) and they all say the same things. The cost? Less than $0.20/each. Twenty cents! That INCLUDES shipping.

    rico #960,

    I tried being nice on a couple of blogs. It doesn’t work, because jerks like YOU take the discussion right into the gutter. So the only way to survive is to blast back. By the way, the books you mentioned are common in all the other tool systems, and I have purchased them for $1 or less on the internet.

    DY,

    Do you need a definition?
  68. Cathy Says:
    August 26th, 2007 at 1:16 am

    Here’s my version:

    Dear Mr. & Mrs. Prospect,

    It is with sincere apologies I wish to write you this letter. I was in your home recently, showing you the Quixtar business plan, as taught to me by my TEAM mentors and approved (at the time) by Quixtar.

    You laughed at me. You said point blank “Quixtar is just Amway in a dress, all dressed up so people won’t know it’s them! We know, and we don’t want any part of Amway!”

    I told you Quixtar was a subsidiary of Alticor, and a wholly different business model. You didn’t buy it, and tossed me out on my ear.

    Mr. & Mrs. Prospect, you were right. I was wrong. They are one in the same, now and forever. The only difference between them is Quixtar is run by the sons of Amway, who lack the integrity and courage of the fathers, and care only for profits and the bottom line. I deeply regret any inconvenience I may have caused you.

    Sincerely,
    Mrs. IBO
  69. makingadifference Says:
    August 26th, 2007 at 5:01 am

    Tex:

    As Georges girl has already said, tool profits are not and cannot be posted without threats of termination from Amway. You may have noticed there’s a lawsuit on. And as to Chuck Goetschel’s integrity you just told me you have never had a deep personal relationship with any Board member in this business. I do, and I know first hand what some very high profile people outside our business thinks of some in particular that I know of. Men like George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, Mark Victor Hansen, Stephen Covey, Robert Kiyosaki, Billy Graham to name a few. I have been there in person and heard what they had to say.

    As to width vs. depth, the marketing plan is essentially a width plan. So if you take say 200 IBOs and use width vs. depth you make more money with depth. The reality however is that no one has ever created an organization with over 50,000 IBOs teaching and using primarily a width structure. All the people who have like Dexter Yager, Bill Britt, Billy Florence, Randy Haugen, and Orrin Woodward, built depth. And since there’s more money in the tools and speaking business, then numbers is the name of the game, so ultimately there is way more money in building depth.

    You seem to be one of those people who write on websites like Amway/Quixtar/Alticorsucks. Too bad. Can you imagine me trying to tell you what kind of man your father is if you have known him all your life and I only know what I’ve read on the internet or by meeting people who knew him before? That’s exactly what you’re doing you know.

    The really cool thing about what’s happening is that within six months the whole world will know the truth (there is absolutely nothing wrong about making money from a training system, especially when an organization is allowed to be up front and transparent from day one). I understand Orrin’s lawyers feel they will win the case quickly. I believe it doesn’t matter. If we assume TEAM loses the case, it only means waiting six months and then beginning the exposure this industry has so desperately needed, through an unstoppable organization on it’s way to a million people!

    My question to you is: when time has proven Orrin & Chris right. When it is common knowledge they have the respect of millions and history books will be written by them, what will you do with that? I suggest reading their book, Launching A Leadership Revolution. Pay particular attention to who endorses the book.

    makingadifference
  70. mex Says:
    August 26th, 2007 at 5:47 am

    New IBO Amway/Quixtar Orientation & First 120 day requirements
    Starting September 1, 2007 all new IBOs will be required to review an Amway/Quixtar Orientation which currently explains to new IBOs the history of Amway, the focus on product sales and the philosophy of building the business around finding others who want to sell products with you. Of course this philosophy takes us right back to the original product pricing problem. In addition, new IBOs are required to sell 50 PV of products to documented customers three of their first four months in the business in order to receive various benefits. Also, it appears that Platinums will need a specific percentage of their new IBOs (probably 10%) to achieve this in order to receive their year-end bonuses. This unfortunately will cause the Platinums to have to become more of sales team managers, likely to put excessive pressure on new IBOs’ sales performance. This will dramatically change the chemistry of the field from how it operates today.

    In coming months all new IBOs will have a specifically monitored first 90-120 days upon their registration. The details are being finalized but if it is to follow suit with other countries, we can expect several things including a limitation of what business support materials a new IBO can purchase. These limitations could include what information a new IBO can review, whether they are corporate or field produced, as well as the amount one could spend on them. Given that most new IBOs who quit in their first year do so within the first 90-120 days of their registration, this is by far our most coveted time with our new people. To have the company involved and making decisions defining the new IBOs experience during this period is alarming to say the least. All of the business effort that leads up to the registration of a new IBO, and therefore the growth of the entire team, can be totally lost if the company exercises something with an adverse effect during this period. This program is flirting with disaster at the point of all business growth. From the Company’s viewpoint, having control over this period decreases their legal risk as they can document their early emphasis on sales. It also bodes well for net incomes of the new IBO if they choose to limit the new IBO’s expenses; good for the Company’s reputation. However, without products that are retailable, this process will only magnify failure to a new IBO.
  71. Victoria Says:
    August 26th, 2007 at 8:48 am

    Poor Tex,
    I think he’s been spending a lot of time indoors blogging. I took a few days off the internet to get some fresh air. It’s amazing what it can do to a person’s soul, not to mention clear thinking. I highly recommend it Tex, you poor thing.
  72. Victoria Says:
    August 26th, 2007 at 8:52 am

    Tex, by the way, if it takes me a while to get back to you, it’s because I’m out getting some fresh air and living :-)
  73. Tex Says:
    August 26th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

    Cathy #968,

    The reason these folks had that opinion was because YOUR leaders, as well as virtually all of the other LOS/LOA’s over the past several decades, have changed the Amway/Quixtar business from a products based profit business to a tools based profit business. Change THAT practice, and it won’t matter what name you use for the business … even … Amway.

    makingadifference #969,

    Great. Did all of these famous men know where your “leaders” made most of their money? Do you think it would matter if they did?

    You still don’t seem to understand the business is essentially a BIG LIE, whether it is width, depth, both, etc., if most of the profit comes from tools and is not known to all prospects and IBO’s.

    I don’t post on Amway/Quixtar/Alticorsucks. Try again. If you had evidence my Dad was a bank robber and I wasn’t aware of this information, it doesn’t matter how long I’ve known him. Everyone thought Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, Richard Nixon, etc., were great people as well. It is true they did some good things, but they screwed up, BIG TIME. It’s called being human. People make mistakes. Some big, some little. The problems become bigger when you have important information that is hidden.

    I don’t have an issue with making money training, just tell the truth regarding how much you make. Orrin could do that TODAY, as he is no longer an IBO. That transparency would improve the entire Amway/Quixtar business tremendously. If Orrin is such a great guy, why has he (or Ron Simmons/Chuck Goetschel for that matter) come out with the numbers? What are they afraid of?

    I plan on reading the book, when it becomes available for $1 or less online, like all the other books I purchase.

    Remember, makingadifference, that is not the point. The point is to be makingapositivedifference.

    mex #970,

    Why did you lift this from another place and repeat it here?

    Victoria #971/2,

    I am typing this from my front porch swing via my laptop and wireless connection. It is in the shade, but the sun is shining, and my American flag blows softly in the southern breeze. Later this afternoon I am taking my family to the community swimming pool, so when you get a clue as to what I do, please blog again.
  74. Dean Says:
    August 26th, 2007 at 3:30 pm

    The way I see it…
    I have been an IBO since 1995 and have seen the changes. Our upline had joined the TEAM approach and to me was a breath of fresh air. Finally someone had taken a serious look at what products were priced well and how to move them. The TEAM training system was also a great change. No more ‘opinion’ of the week by the Yager group I once was in. Instead TEAM provided a consistant training program to get results! The reason other organizations joined TEAM (in my opinion) is they moved alot of produce and IBOs were getting Bonuses.
    - TEAM focused on the few well priced products (XS & Nutrilite)

    - I believe this all started when Alticor stated they are switching the name from Quixtar to AMWAY. This is a kiss of death to all IBOs existing and future business. I personally said if they stay with going the AMWAY route our Platinum ship business is over and all the hard work we put in will end.
    - I believe TEAM and others have no option but to change to another supplier (if that is the case as stated by Quixtar). We have our community of consumers in place we just need fair priced products and a way we will go.
    - In the 1800 & early 1900s the power was with manufactures then in the late 1900s & early 2000s the power shifted to Distribution companies (Wal-Mart etc) well now the power is going to shift to ‘Communities’ and specific to those that can build communities of loyal consumers (TEAM etc.)

    Ain’t it great!!!
  75. WTF? Says:
    August 26th, 2007 at 9:00 pm

    Who really cares? Amway has always been a joke and a MLM.
  76. Tex Says:
    August 26th, 2007 at 11:06 pm

    Dean #974,

    Goodbye.

    WTF? #975,

    I care. Plenty of other IBO’s care as well. The joke is on you. What’s wrong with being an MLM?
  77. Saved Says:
    August 26th, 2007 at 11:54 pm

    Tex #973

    Nothing personal but, why do you keep insisting on knowing what TEAM makes in profit sharing?? Last year at go diamond weekend the leadership stated all levels of income. If you care so much join Team and actually build the business so you can attend “Leadership Meetings” these are meetings for people who read real books written by real leaders probably purchased for more than a dollar. Feed your mind before your belly and maybe some day you’ll have a big Amway buis. too. If your above joining TEAM then quit asking about #’s it will only upset you more while your swimming in your community pool. Reach out dare to exeed in something…
  78. Jeffrey Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 5:44 am

    Mex: The company wants new IBOs to succeed. The way it’s been, even (or especially) with the systems, most people fail in this business. The “training” I got was so far out of whack, it wasn’t even funny. I was not taught how to build a business by my upline. Not even close. I was taught how to become dependent on the tools. This is a business. It’s not, “Hey, I think I’ll get in and try a couple products and show it to Uncle Frank and Grandpa Joe.” Not any more. If people get in the business, they should be getting in to build to Platinum and beyond. If you want to make a few extra bucks, become a cashier at Wally World. If you don’t want to build at all, become a customer. If you start a new job, the very first thing they start doing with you is –duh– training you. From the minute you start your new job they are telling you what to do. Just because you are in independent contractor in this business does not mean you can get in and just do (or not) anything you please. Build the business the right way or get out. It’s as simple as that.
  79. Tex Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    Saved #977,

    How about because it would be truthful and honest? Having integrity and character? Having ethics and morals? Any of these good enough for you?

    If you know the numbers and are proud of them, tell us what they are so we can all get “fired up.”

    I know the purpose of your non-answer. I go Platinum, then either get “hooked” on the tool income and wouldn’t make a big deal over it, or I start to complain and get cut out of the deal and treated like I am a leper. Since I would be making much more on tools than Quixtar, this would amount to a huge pay cut, and I would quit. I know the drill.

    Just the facts, ma’am (or sir).

    Jeffrey #978,

    I agree with most of what you said, but if an IBO only wants to buy for themselves, or do a little (or a lot) of retailing on the side, that is fine with me. Pushing Platinum on any IBO is not the goal, the goal is to help the IBO achieve THEIR goals, as big or little as they may be. Now, their goals may change over time, but that is a different issue.
  80. Bruce Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 1:11 pm

    Tex and Bridget,

    Are you hourly or salaried? I’ve been away for a week & see you’ve spent hours on every BLOG. You all have the same talking points. Spin it any way you want, the Truth is still the Truth.

    Everyone needs to join the TEAM Leadership Program and read “The Magic of Thinking Big” by David J. Schwartz. It will change your life.

    Bruce

    TEAM IBOs - go GoGetter! On the way to a million!
  81. Tex Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 3:04 pm

    Bruce,

    None of your business, both literally and figuratively.

    It only takes a few seconds to keep up when you’re not away for a week and have to play “catch up”.
  82. Matt Mc Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 4:42 pm

    Wow! The manner and wording of this Blog Posting are not at all professional. I agree with so many others who have pointed this out, and feel that it’s worth highlighting again because of the nature of it. It’s public, on the internet, seems very hasty & angry, and most definately can leave IBO’s who want to continue in our business pursuits with the wrong idea. I just called Quixtar Corporate to find out what this Termination & Court Ruling mean for me. In the future, you ought to cool down first before writing and publishing such a post.
  83. Tex Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 10:33 pm

    Matt Mc #982,

    Welcome to the blog world. I made a disciplined and persistent attempt to keep things on the “high road” when I first started to blog in the Amway/Quixtar world a couple of years ago, starting on the Bruce Anderson site (now shut down) and qblog.

    Problem is, blogs are very much like the judicial system, which is an adversarial environment by design. Folks need to understand this as the various Quixtar court cases go forward.

    This is the source of the recent “we own the IBO’s” statements by the Quixtar lawyers. They often use figures of speech to make a point, which should not to be taken in the literal, slavery context. Then some folks get their nose bent out of joint because they are LOOKING for an opening to find fault.

    If you are “nice” to the other bloggers, they keep on being “nasty” with you, and eventually you get tired of the abuse while trying to make a friendly and logical point. In fact, the original point even gets hopelessly lost in the vicious personal attacks.

    Thus, I have found through personal experience that firing back with a total and overwhelming force of fire (using words) is the ONLY way to neutralize these kinds of sub-human attacks, as there is no judge in the courtroom to act as referee. Some of the adatudes blog moderators do act more as referees and disallow personal attacks, but I have found this blog to be much more open with what they allow, so you have to modify how far you take things depending on the particular blog.

    If you go over to the freetheibo forum, you will find all of the input to be one-sided, as I and several others have been kicked off, just for asking questions they didn’t like. This will catch up with them, you can only marry your own sister and daughters so many times before you get predictable problems, which have already revealed themselves on that blog.

    Moderator - Sorry for the longer than desired post, it’s hard to say all of this effectively with less words.
  84. truth be told Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 10:39 pm

    Dear Tex,

    This blog site has just about become a joke, it’s you promoting your personal opinions to everyones comments. We have heard all of your views over and over again. Each time you respond your credibity goes down.
    The reality of the tools, is that even if it was the ONLY product we had, I would work this business. If the profits come from tooth paste or tools?? What’s the problem? Even though the value of the tools far exceeds the products available. Tooth paste may not be live changing but the tools certainly are. But if you don’t like them, don’t buy them, it’s a free country. As for the price to produce the cd’s… Most books also cost more than the paper they are printed on. Yet most people buy the book for the information inside it’s pages, not the value of the paper!
  85. Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 11:06 pm

    Tex: Quite alright. Admittedly, if you worked for us—and to clear the record right now, Tex is not our employee, nor is he paid to be on this blog— you’d be due for some time off. We wonder if you ever sleep. In all seriousness, thank you—and everybody—for keeping the conversation going.
  86. Jeffrey Says:
    August 28th, 2007 at 7:40 am

    We blog because we care about this business. If we didn’t care, we wouldn’t be here. I have not liked the direction the business has been going and some of the rumors still make me nervous. But some of the new things sound great. Like a very heavy emphasis on retail. Yes, people, these products ARE retailable. Find a need and fill it. See my post on Bone Health in Beth’s blog.

    If everyone is so heck-bent on competing with Wal-Mart, please note a couple things: I needed some DexCool coolant for my truck, like right away. I tried to order it from the partsamerica.com Partner Store and get in-store pickup. It wasn’t available, so this morning at 4:30, I HAD to go to Wal-Mart and get it. Guess what? Same exact price. To the penny. Wal-Mart wants you to think they have the best prices but they don’t.

    Second, at 4:30 this morning, there was some pretty scary looking people in there. Do we REALLY want to compete for those customers? I sure don’t.
  87. Victoria Says:
    August 28th, 2007 at 8:40 am

    Tex, 973
    So, what you are saying is that if a person has no clue as to what he/she’s talking about, he/she shouldn’t be blogging. Am I right? Sounds fair. Point well taken. Can you do me a favor? Look in the mirror and repeat that?

    As to why you were kicked off the “free the IBos” website, well, this is only MY opinion, I would venture to guess that if you conducted yourself in the manner you’ve done here, that is why. “free the IBOs” site have the following rules in regards to blogging:

    Forum rules
    We prefer that you be a North American independent business owner wanting to learn and share facts without fear of corporate reprisal or banishment. This issue here is Freedom for ALL IBOs in North American.

    1) While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks or purposeless inflammatory posts. Our decision is final in these matters.
    2) Post content spamming is not allowed. Advertising, spamming and trolling is not allowed. This includes using the forum email and Private message system to spam other members.
    3) We reserve the right to remove offensive posts and those that break rules without notice.
    4) Lastly, breaking forum rules listed above can result in a immediate ban and deletion of all posts
    I have always stated that TEAM has class!

    Lastly, #984, ‘truth be told’ has a point. This blog site has become a joke. It’s become a Tex and us thing instead of Quixtar and TEAM discussions. So, this will be my last blog.
    #985 Funny. Alticor Media Blog Administrator, nice to know that behind that tittle, there’s a real person with a sense of humor.
    It’s been interesting. Good luck to all involved. I wish everyone greater and better things to come, yes, even you Tex.
  88. Alticor Media Blog Administrator Says:
    August 28th, 2007 at 10:26 am

    makingadifference, Tim: We do not wish to censor your comments; however, they are too lengthy for us to approve. Would you mind resubmitting shorter comments while still being able to get your points across?
  89. Tex Says:
    August 28th, 2007 at 10:27 am

    truth be told #984,

    It’s a free country. You could promote your opinions to everyone’s comments.

    If the tools are so valuable, why do you promote toothpaste, XS, energy bars, etc., when showing the marketing plan? Honestly, I think your thinking is one of the reasons why Orrin is bye-bye. It falls under “improper positioning of the business”. So keep talking, the Quixtar lawyers are taking copious notes.

    I care much less about my credibility than getting the truth out regarding the source of financial success with the Quixtar business. What could be a more fundamental question than this?

    Having said that, what “credibility” are you talking about, most of what I do is ask questions? Reasonable questions that have gone largely unanswered.

    Most books are not being promoted by folks claiming to be your “business partner” or “teammate”, and promoting a Quixtar business while making most of their profit from the tools they are heavily promoting to you.

    Here’s the “joke”, truth be told: The truth isn’t being told.

    Administrator #985,

    I am not getting paid money, but I’m not looking to be paid money to blog. My aim is to cause fundamental changes regarding how this wonderful business concept is applied and help all of us, whether you are an Amway/Quixtar employee or fellow IBO.

    For the record, I sleep, eat, exercise, go to the bathroom, etc., and am looking forward to the changes I advocate being implemented, so I can go forward and build my business with the same energy and enthusiasm with which I blog.

    Just to show everyone I am not an employee or getting paid to blog, here are some simple questions I would like the Moderator/Administrator to answer:

    1. Is it allowable for the prospects/IBO’s to know how much the typical Platinum and above makes on tools (former TIF IBO Andy Andrews, and TEAM IBO’s Ron Simmons and Chuck Goetschel say they were told “no”)?

    2. If the answer to question number one is “yes”, when will we see this necessary change, as this issue is eating up our reputation on the internet?

    3. If the answer to question number one is “no”, why not?
  90. Tex Says:
    August 28th, 2007 at 10:43 am

    Jeffrey #986,

    I want to compete for the 4:30 am Walmart customers. They all deserve an opportunity to see the business plan. I may not spend as much time prospecting/working with them, but they all should make the decision for themselves.

    Victoria #987,

    No, you’re not right. If a person doesn’t know what they are blogging about, they should keep asking questions until they do understand. Alternatively, they can stomp their feet and announce this will be their last post.

    It hasn’t been just me who got kicked off of the freetheibo site, several others have as well. Although I am well known in the Quixtar blogging world (it’s a small world, after all) as being “banned” from a number of sites because of my tendency to be direct and honest, these other folks also know “the game” and how to follow rules. You call that “class”? I call it Gestapo tactics, which will NOT serve TEAM well in the long haul.

    It’s still you and TEAM discussions. Problem is, I am part of the discussion, and you don’t like to deal with the truth. You can’t “ban” me from this site, like your SS troop friends did over on freetheibo, so you’re frustrated. Bub-bye Victoria, I also wish you enlightenment.
  91. Tim Says:
    August 28th, 2007 at 11:50 am

    Administrator, That is fair. I am sorry for the lengthy one. This was the first time I ever went in to a blog. Good thing I don’t do seminars. Some people do have to go to work Monday mornings.LOL I don’t need my point accross anymore except each and everyone knows what is best for us and our families. The last thing any of us need to do, wheither we are for or against anyone, or thing, is to turn all this into a presidential type campaign. We remember what that is all about. If not November 2008 is around the corner.
    My real point is that both Quixtar and Amway did provide me with a great opportunities and Team did provide me with a great support. Now I need to take what I learned from both and do what is best for me and my family. I really truely do want to thank Rich DeVos and Jay VanAndle for forging a dream for all of us and I do want to thank Orrin Woodward and the rest of TEAM for teaching me to put others first before myself and I will win. Now I need to do what is best for me and my family and I do hope what ever directions you take in your lives that I may have or may in the future make a positive difference in your lives someday. I know God has a purpose for me and I am ready for whatever tasks he has for me. I am not here to trash anyone. I know I am on the best team now. That is God’s Team. Good Luck to all and may God bless all of you in whatever you do. Just make a difference in somebody’s life. A positive one ok!
  92. Monette Says:
    August 28th, 2007 at 3:36 pm

    I just posted a letter I sent Steve & Doug, it may or may not be posted as a blog. I do personally know most of the big pins, most of the IBOAI board personally as well as the founders families. I do know that before you become a big pin you have worked hard and most of them have the very best honesty and integrity.

    If you read your Bible it tells you that all things that are done in the dark will come to light. This may happen here sooner than later.
    So lets get on with building people, honesty, intergrity and move forward in life and give all the glory to our creator where it all belongs.
  93. makingadifference Says:
    August 28th, 2007 at 6:33 pm

    media blog administrator:

    Sorry for the long post. Will try to keep it short.

    Tex:

    Looks like you never received my answer to your question “did all these famous men know where Orrin makes all his money?” The asnwer is yes, and in fact most of them make their living by speaking and selling CDs and books and are praised by people at the top of the business world and throughout the self development industry.

    You may have a point when you say the business is a big lie. I believe the key here is are we talking about intentional deceit or about someone being restrained by the corporation from revealing what they wanted to reveal to the brand new person all along?

    Where is the morderator’s answer to your question above? Your question, as yet unanswered, is THE KEY to all of this.

    makingadifference
  94. ibofightback Says:
    August 28th, 2007 at 9:48 pm

    Tex #990 - you weren’t banned from www.thetruthaboutamway.comor other sites because of your tendency to be “direct and honest” - it was primarily for your tendency to “hijack threads” or take over every conversation and direct it to your favourite topic of tools. Some people actually want to talk about other things, and you insist on making it difficult.
  95. frank Says:
    August 28th, 2007 at 10:18 pm

    its amazing to me to read the comments of you who chose to bash the BSM and support systems that TEAM members have used so successfully in the past months,
    I was a part of the BRitt Worldwide line of sponsorship for 12 years when Quixtar started and we went away, in that time there has been ZERO significant growth anywhere in the US quixtar business apart from the use of independently produced BSM
    I am now newly reinvolved with the business in Greg Duncans organization, and WE USE and SELL these BSM to other distributors as well, and we dont get paid for it either at least not at my current PV levels. We also have been taught to build the business using a stacking concept and also need to do the side pv to get bonused.And Amway has not fired GREG yet?
    Why not? This is a lame excuse otherwise 90% of you posting here wouldnt own a tape, cd or book, BUT YOU DO!
    WAKE up and BE REAL You dont own a business you work for AMWAY, or they couldnt fire you! The Core values at the corporation have changed to reflect the values of the new corporate leadership, as happens in every corporation in America, The principles of building a large network marketing organization have never changed and if you have a small insignificant organization with a flat growth curve and flatlined PV then dont criticize the tools because nobody including you has demonstrated how to build it fast, grow like crazy, and maintain a huge business without them and NEVER WILL.
  96. WIDREAMBOY Says:
    August 29th, 2007 at 1:46 pm

    WOW! I can’t believe all this.
    Tex, I certianly would have wanted to know you in high school. (Mary-ju-wanna) and a side order of TEX! Yea!

    The tool situation is simple Tex.
    Back in ‘77 I got a job a a mechanic right out of high school because I took Auto classes there. I new boss said get all your tools together and start Monday. I was excited. So I put my screw driver in the box and a hammer and reported to work. My boss looked at my tools the same way you would if your mechanic walked up to fix your car with only a hammer. However he was smart and asked one of the mechanics there if he would help me until I got some tools.
    Snap-on Tools came into the shop on Tuesday and my new friend helped me pickout what to get started with. I didn’t ask Snap-on how much money (profit) they made on my new air wrench.
    That’s not what I wanted it for. I wanted the tools to work for me.

    Tex, same here however the profit from the tools should and does go back to all actively involved ibo’s (at least with TEAM). Do you have a problem with that Tex? I just got a cd back that I bought about a year ago for $6 ($5.50 profit maybe). However I bet it touched atleast 30 other cd players. That’s $180 worth of pure education thru out my group for $6. Who really got the profit. At least two of those people are coming close to Platinum level now. I think Platinum profit is more than $5.50) Tex, maybe I should just give you that cd. I will help you be one of my $5 profit Platinum$$$$$.
    If you still have a problem with tool profit….
    Then don’t log onto your ISP internet provider cause they make money off your connection too. Unplug your computer cause the electric company is making money. DUH!
  97. WIDREAMBOY Says:
    August 29th, 2007 at 1:56 pm

    Tex,
    I just decided to read more of your comments and I want to apologize.
    I am truely sorry! I don’t wnat to give you that cd. Someone else can have you as their Platinum.
    Please don’t ever quit Quixtar oh I mean AMWAY!
    I will gladly pay thenm the $5.50 profit to keep you.
  98. Tex Says:
    August 29th, 2007 at 2:33 pm

    makingadifference #992,

    The other speakers are known to make a lot of money speaking to groups, and they don’t claim to be “business partners” and “teammates” of those they speak to. The problem is nobody told the IBO’s most of the upline profit was coming from tools, while pretending it was coming from Quixtar.

    I agree the answer to the question regarding tool profit is a key one, and I am also disappointed there has been no answer. Leads me to believe there is a LOT of lawyers running around in the Quixtar hallways.

    ibofb #993,

    You only thought I was/am hijacking threads. What I was demonstrating is how the tool profit issue is so engrained into virtually every other seemingly separate issue, that most of these issues would be solved by solving the tool profit issue. It is unfortunate you were unwilling/unable to understand the facts.

    frank #994,

    It appears to me you are confusing appropriate stacking (also called depth building) versus inappropriate stacking (also called stacking), and you are confusing the use of tools versus massive tool profit.

    You can have tools that are sold at lower prices and maintain the integrity of the business, which creates much more profit from Quixtar than it does from the tools.

    If you have much more profit from tools than Quixtar and don’t tell the prospects and IBO’s this fact, you have a classic bait and switch operation.
  99. Tex Says:
    August 29th, 2007 at 6:35 pm

    WIDREAMBOY #995/6,

    Did Snap-On Tools claim to be your “business partner” or “teammate”?

    How about your IP provider?

    Electric company?

    Did any of them misrepresent where they made most of their income like your upline “business partners” and “teammates” did?

    Are you saying these 30 people listened to a single CD and now you’ve got Platinums popping out all over? Quite a story, all that was missing was the lead-in, “Once upon a time….”

    What happens when you listen to audios that don’t cost you ANYTHING, like those on iteamusa.com? What if 500,000 people listen to those audios, how much dollars of education did they get? You just proved your own fallacy of logic.

    Dream about that, dream boy.
  100. BA Crowell Says:
    August 30th, 2007 at 12:32 am

    I am ashamed and embarrassed that a so-called professional would post such a letter. The author should be terminated. The context is mean-spirited and extremely inappropriate in the business venue. What is the management at Alticor thinking–this letter indicates very poor leadership.

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