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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
August 10th, 2007 @ 3:59 pm ET…
Just go, Team
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
We terminated Orrin Woodward yesterday, along with several other leaders of his field organization, named Team. We’ll post our formal statement when it’s ready. Informally, here’s the story:
We terminated Orrin Woodward for philosophical reasons. We did it for legal reasons.
But the main reason we did it is because the way Orrin Woodward ran his organization was a disgrace to every person who’s ever tried to build a Quixtar or Amway business the right way.
We have fought to clean up the reputation of our company for years. We know that one of the biggest challenges our reputation faces is misrepresentation of the Quixtar and Amway businesses to others.
And over the last several months, it became clear to us that Orrin Woodward was a poster child for a long list of bad business practices that our critics hate about our company. The other leaders we terminated – including Chris Brady, Billy Florence, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Tim Marks and Chuck Goetschel – also showed they were unwilling to reform.
Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could.
Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.
Telling people that Quixtar was merely a “supplier,” and not the company they were signing a contract with? Yup.
We’d told Woodward we had problems with the way he ran his business for years, and we worked methodically to bring those problems to resolution. We got ignored, we got lied to, and, boy, we got the runaround.
So in the end, yesterday, we tried to give him one last chance to reform.
He didn’t even want to hear his options. So we terminated him. And in return, he handed us a trumped-up, trash-talking lawsuit on his way out the door. In response, we have a temporary restraining order issued by a court that prevents him from looting the business as he seeks to take his act to a new company.
So he’s gone, and so are others. We are doing our best to repair the relationships Orrin Woodward damaged and protect the businesses of the people in his organization that Orrin Woodward betrayed. And we will continue building our business with thousands of people who know how to build it the right way.
We would say we were sorry to see Orrin Woodward go. But only if that were true.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
August 10th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
We will. Way beyond scamway.
August 10th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
I proud to be associated with Orrin Woodward. He’s a man of charecter and intergrity and I will go where he goes. I’m not going to miss quixtar (or amway or alticor or whatever they want to call themselves) at all.
August 10th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
it’s about time some bite was put into the rules. for years violaters have went unpunished. ignoring the problems have done more damage to our reputation than the problems themselves. keep up the good work
August 10th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
Yes!
Today, I am more proud than I’ve ever been before to be an IBO with the Alticor/Quixtar/Amway business!
Thank you, thank you, thank you—for doing what you did AND for letting the world know.
August 10th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
Alticor CC, did you read your statement over before you posted it??? It’s the INTERNET, guys — you just made your formal statement!!! Did you think about the possibility of alienating or hurting many thousands of our colleagues affiliated under the TEAM umbrella who are weighing who to believe, and which way they should elect to go? “Just go, Team?” The hot words that may have been exchanged behind closed doors on the 9th don’t translate well to the Internet, nor is it smart PR. Perhaps a small apology to your readers for hasty words might be in order as you pause to regain your professional composure.
August 10th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Orrin Woodward and TEAM: Alticor comes out swinging
August 10th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
Wow!!!!
I would say this is not a professionally written letter. Sound like someone is bitter and wants the world to know it. If I were Amway and if I was truly worried about my reputation, I would have never posted a document like this (especially on the internet).
I think this letter was written when someone was still anger and did not have it proofread by multiple people.
I don’t know what the real story is and there is always two sides to every story. The Teams states they left due to high prices and Quixtar says it is because of The TEAM’s approach on stacking. I feel it is on the account of two bull headed corporations that did not realize that they need each other to be successful. Instead of work out their difference and being professional about the matter, they have involved themselves in a mudsling match.
My final though is for being two companies so involved in so called “Christian” values…….
I guess what I am trying to say is this What Jesus Would Do?*
*This statement is based on what the Founders of The TEAM and Founding Family Members of Amway believe. I am not a Christian, nor do I believe in Jesus.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
i have to agree with rdknyvr, as a member of TEAM i feel like i’ve been slapped across the face by someone holding out their other hand saying they want to be my business partner. i’m not orrin why slap me? you said things to orrin about what he was doing? fine; you never said anything to me. the first thing i heard i was being slapped! you’re right, and thanks for saying it rdknyvr. amway/alti whatever might be the big company that can take away my # for this but i backed them about canada and everything else ever since, but when things get tight first thing they do is slap me.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:41 pm
I must say as an IBO for several years I am sickened. First so you know I am new to Team as my upline has recently affiliated themselves with Team.
Secondly, what Team states in their official legal complaint is true. My family has been purchasing products for personal consumption for years only to get a bonus. I fudge my “client reporting” numbers to get that bonus… so does my downline. I have retailed some products but its never a long lasting client as they get tired of the high prices. XS and the bars ARE the only products that are comparable to similar products on a retail price level…they are the easiest to market as well because of that reason. My family will be buying more from WalMart because of this situation and only buying XS and such to get our bonus.
Third, this blog posting from Alticor is absolutely disgraceful. Even if I was not associated with Team I would be offended by the hatred that is coming through this posting. Quixtar only does billions in sales because of the IBO’s and to show this much hatred to any IBOs, for any reason, is unprofessional at best.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
That was a poor article Altcor. This sounds more like a kid on a playground than a respectable buisness. You are hurting a lot of people who don’t have a clue what is going on. You call that good buisness practice?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Exciting to see that you mean business with the new transformations and reputation. Please dont’ stop there, I hope you don’t just make an example of team and ignore other abuses. I’m not a critic, I’m a faithful active IBO, and I SUPPORT and LIKE the idea of a system.
With that said, some of the stuff like religion and politics preaching or presenting the System as non-optional (i.e. requiring a System Kit to start up IBOs) is out of hand.
I hope ALL people that are in breach of rules will be asked to change, not just TEAM. There are many other guilty ones.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
I am ashamed at the position that “Quixtar” is taking on this. Being an IBO for some time, I can’t say how many people complain about prices - and that’s at IBO COST. I have a MIL that bought products from Amway in the 80’s, and when she recognized SA8, bought some, only to tell me she couldn’t buy more because it was to expensive and messed her budget up. I can honestly say I never heard Orrin or Chris or anyone affiliated with Team say a negative word about Quixtar or Alticor. To see this is absolutely appauling. The title of this article was even disgraceful. It seems like they are wanting every IBO affiliated with TEAM to leave. Do you realize some Team affiliated IBO’s could take this as you telling them to leave, essentially damaging their pursuit of free enterprise, and the potential ramifications of such a statement? And the last comment - the Van Andels and DeVoss’ have made millions of dollars off of this team, and to see this comment makes me feel like all any of us IBO’s are is a buck. When the buck want’s more for it’s buck and speaks up, it’s discarded of and they will find someone else to take advantage of. It makes me think of some of those old mafia movies where the gangster tells the politician they better play ball or they will find another one who will.
For those wondering why I put “Quixtar” in quotes, it is because of their plan within 2 years to change the name back to Amway. Amway still, to this day, is one of the most disliked names in this country. Any time I have shown the plan to a prospect, if they mentioned Amway at all, it was negative. If the company does do this, they will destroy Quixtar and a lot of IBO’s businesses, who I imagine, will hold them responsible.
Alticor - shame on you. What would your fathers say?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:25 pm
This is a sad day, when people who claim to have Jesus Christ in their lives treat each other this way on the internet, for all to see (read). This hurtful verbal rock throwing is totally unprofessional, and does not represent what many of us are really about, whether we are in Quixtar/Alticor/Amway or in TEAM.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:49 pm
If you break the rules big time and get caught with a regular company you get fired.
They were asked over and over to stop.
Good for Alticor
August 10th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
The whole tenor of this posting is unprofessional and disgraceful. This is NOT what I would have expected from a corporation of your size and stature, but I guess I was mistaken and size really doesn’t count for much.
We are active IBO’s with the TEAM who by the way would follow Orin and Chris to the ends of the Earth, We have just personally signed up five new IBO’s recently and frankly your BLOG is so offensive, I don’t even know how to begin to explain your actions to them.
Beyond your lash-out at the TEAM, you KNOW your prices are ridiculous, we all know it. And when we started consuming XS and the Trim Vantage product lines, you dropped the PV on them….now who has integrity issues?!? You guys just can’t pad your pockets enough huh?
Oh well, You can keep throwing mud, calling names, you might as well start praying, but make no mistake where the loyalties of the Team lie, they lie with the founders of the TEAM, Woodward and Brady. They are the kind of men that you will never be. And they don’t sling mud in an offensive BLOG. So good luck to you all, keep up the good work in consuming your products for PV, and hopefully the AMWAY name change goes well for you.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
Pete, you’re retarded. What do you know
August 11th, 2007 at 12:08 am
TEAM has solid leadership with character and integrity… Look up what leadership means and I think you will agree, Quixtar is almost over… Nice job TEAM (WOODWARD - BRADY) YOU ROCK!!!
August 11th, 2007 at 12:25 am
What I find interesting is that Orrin Woodward is saying a lot of the same stuff that Bo Short said several years ago, yet Orrin blasted and badmouthed Bo every chance he got.
How can people on the TEAM feel good about that?
If Orrin knew Bo Short was right in a lot of areas, why would he (as a leader?) stay with Quixtar for so long?
August 11th, 2007 at 12:30 am
I applaud the action of Alticor and Quixtar. It is also great to see that there is some passion behind the corporate doors, not just corporate retorick (sp?).
I have seen several seminars by TEAM, and have family members also approached by people from TEAM (what the corp says about avoiding the name is an understatement). They were told about a business opportunity, never once mentioning Quixtar or anything. It wasn’t until they were handed an XS they knew what it was. They also said, “this is one our companies”. Fortunately, they were properly educated by myself and the correct relationship between XS and Quixtar.
It really is discouraging this kind of action is taking place. Great Job Alticor for taking a stand!!
August 11th, 2007 at 12:57 am
I would have to say that I will follow the TEAM at this point as it is the leadership training provided by TEAM that has changed my life, not the Amway content and commerce or the money made from being an IBO, b/c there hasn’t been any profit as of yet.
And as for this article… just because it a ‘blog’ doesn’t mean that it should be a forum for mud-slinging.
As for Josh’s remark of ‘avoiding the name’… Sure, change your name back to Amway and see how many sales and new customer registrations are generated. The combination of the Amway affiliation and the high prices have indeed made it difficult to grow my business.
Going to a million, w/o Quixtar.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:01 am
I have known Orrin personally for 7 years and I can honestly say he is the most honorable man I have ever met. He has led the charge for lower prices for sevearal years now in an attempt to assist all IBO’s in becoming more profitable. It is a simple proven concept… lower prices will lead to higher volume. IBO’s would have the ability to increase earnings through higher volumes. The company would increase earnings through higher volumes. Which would you rather have… 20% of a Billion or 5% of 50 Billion. Walmart operates at just under 3% on 289 Billion and the Walton’s aren’t hurting. Lower prices are trully a win win proposal.
I am ashamed that Quixtar would attempt to change the subject and attempt to ruin Orrin’s reputation by accusing him of stacking. Quixtar has been in approval of the “Team approach to Depth” for years now, To come out now and claim Team is doing something illegal with depth when 8 members of their own IBOAI board resign over pricing and an unfair non-compete clause is ridiculous. If you disagree with TEAM leadership over pricing and the non compete clause just admit it. Why did you terminate only the IBO’s who were named in the class action suit. Were they the only ones who were stacking? So many Team affiliated IBO’s have built their business the same way the “terminated IBO’s” have yet you have not terminated them and now you are now courting them. It makes no sense, At least be honest about the split. It has nothing to do with stacking and everything to do with pricing.
Orrin Woodward is a servant leader who is leading a charge for so many of us frustrated IBO’s who want nothing more than fair pricing and the ability to compete in the open market. Orrin was obviously willing to lose alot of money to stand up for what is fair and honest and support the IBO’s on his Team. Quixtar could take a lessons, If Quixtar would treat their IBO’s in the same fashion they wouldn’t be dealing with this problem today.
Think about this… Quixtar claims that Orrin Woodward, Billy Florence, Randy Haugen, Chris Brady, Tim Marks, Don Wilson and Chuck Goetschell were all unwilling to reform. These are all men of Character. When I think of whom to believe behind all this… I think about their character. I then read this blog and think something doesn’t fit. Quixtar is a company, These men are leaders of men. Nobody ever followed a company to war. Nobody follows a company anywhere. I will follow these couragous men of character wherever they lead… We are going to a million people and beyond!
August 11th, 2007 at 1:07 am
What goes around comes around. The story I have been told is that Rich and Jay were Nutrilite’s most successfull distributors. They did not not like how the company did things, so they started Amway. I have been told they brought on board their old Nutrilite downlines as new Amway distibutors. It worked out pretty well. Sounds like people with experience in the field knew more than the corporate folks back then too. Alticor needs to remember the example Rich and Jay set. Orrin & Chris know today what Rich and Jay knew then. Just call Orrin and Chris today’s Rich & Jay.
We are with ya.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:29 am
“Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could.
Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.”
—well, first off, you might as well kick us all out. we have all done that.
“We’d told Woodward we had problems with the way he ran his business for years, and we worked methodically to bring those problems to resolution. We got ignored, we got lied to, and, boy, we got the runaround.So in the end, yesterday, we tried to give him one last chance to reform.
He didn’t even want to hear his options. So we terminated him.”
—-sounds like the true story, but cleverly turned around so unsuspecting IBO’s would know nothing of the true incident…well, hear it is: for the longest time, woodward has had problems with the way you guys have run “your” business for years. He tried many times to bring about a solution to the problem but to no avail. He got ignored, lied to, and boy, he got the runaround. So in the end, the leaders of Team gave the quixtar business one last opportunity to correct it’s wrong doings to all IBO’s. You guys didn’t want to hear it, so we terminated you.
My one and only question is this.(well, actually two): whoever wrote this blog, were you even there or are you just writing what they told you to? and second…and the most important, is what kind of company would lie about one of the biggest events in the Quixtar history. Why in the world would you terminate more than 10 HUGE leaders in the Quixtar business all at once, without even thinking twice about the ramifications that it would have on your pocketbooks? Do you honestly think that we would stick around in a company that would just terminate our liveliehood in a second? What kind of “free” opportunity is that?
No! None of those questions you can answer because you didn’t terminate these leaders…they walked away from an opportunity that was filled with lies and deciet. This article is a perfect example. I can hear it all over the tone in this article, that you guys are very, very, sad to see us(Team and affiliate IBO’s) go. Or else why would all of this spite come through.
To all those who read this and think Alticor is on the right path…have you looked at your overpriced products lately? Ever wonder where that goes? Think it over.
“We would say we were sorry to see Orrin Woodward go. But only if that were true.”
—Nope, that’s not true, your right! But what you are sorry about is everyone else that is going with him. Good Luck, Quixtar, with your dying opportunity.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:31 am
I always try to see both sides of any situation, this one is very difficult. TEAM has been very effective at putting people in, I believe there #’s have surpassed the rest of Quixtars for growth in the last 6 or 7 years.
This isnt just about TEAM, it is about the IBOA board and the fact that they have attempted to stand up for all IBO’s, not just those that are TEAM affiliated.
I know I cannot be the only one who has noticed my PV going down on almost all of my purchases, not just my XS. It now costs me more to make the minimum recommended purchase for an IBO who is “building” a business. The extra $ must then go to “the Jay factor.”
Any corporation knows tht you make more $ selling 100 Widgets at .09, than selling 10 widgets at .15, but then we also do seem to be talking Corporation rather than IBO here. For years part of the IBO plan has included discussion about how in “Corporate America” once you get so high on a pay scale, the “Corporation” gets to looking for excuses to terminate you or cut your pension or profit share..
Well my question is, did TEAM get too profitable? BTW if there are that many leaders who have been terminated, where is their profit checks going????Hmmm… OK so if it is “Just GO TEAM” what would happen if any and all of us who were/are TEAM should boycott Quixtr for 30, 60 days? perhaps it would wake them up to just how much of an impact we have on their bottom line.
I was recently at a TEAM function where the overflow was close to 2000 people, there were I believe 4 other functions, so if only 50% of the active people attended, and there were 4 of them, my guess would be that there are a minimum of 100,000 IBO’s affiliated with TEAM or other organizations under some of these people who dared to speak there mind, or attempt to stand up for ALL IBO’s.
Quixtar has absolutly the best products out there and my wish is to stand behind them, but when people dare to question the profit stucture and attempt to make it a fair playing field are terminated, then I have to question the integrity of teh company.
I believe as Americans we are promised freedom of Speech, and due process of law. So when people who choose to have an issue adjudicated are terminated by a Corporation, I have to ask what happened to “The AMerican WAY”?
BTW I really dont think it would have hurt to poll the IBO’s about returning the AMWAY name to the company. I bet it would have been vetoed by those that truly matter, - the IBO’s themselves.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:45 am
I for one will not renew my business with Quixtar after building a successful Platinumship. The fact the Alticor has announced they are changing the Quixtar name to AMWAY has and will make a complete mokery of all IBOs who have attempted to build the business. Shame on Alticor and the families as they obiously do not care for what happens to our businesses…
August 11th, 2007 at 1:52 am
Very disappointed in Alticor’s response to Orrin, done very unprofessional, attacking another’s character, which shows your true colors of your self-serving and lack of concern for the people who are now in the trenches and giving people hope. Alticor and the Amway supporters, those who built the business many years ago, need to give their egos and power up to what is best for us out in the field. Nobody wants to be part or even hear the word Amway, why don’t you get it. You are further fortifying the positons of all the hate sites of Quixtar/Amway, perhaps there is some truth to them. The legacy of Amway will be its fall !!!
August 11th, 2007 at 1:56 am
To answer post #18
Both are liars AND both started a competing MLM that failed.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:56 am
I’m no fan of Orrin, so good riddance.
But I’d be a fan of you if you’d say you terminated Orrin because he was trying to take his TEAM (lots of IBOs) to another MLM. Since Bill Britt and Dexter Yager have been doing what Orrin did “wrong” (minus stacking, ship jumping) for years. I’m sure you’ve read postma memo in 1983?
I was in BWW from 2002-2003, lost 10K in endless trips to US hearing dream big, system is the key, buy for yourself etc.
You did come hard on BWW in amway. Nice. PLease look into Gala LOS as well. They told me it’s ok to sign up non-us citizens. Thank God I emailed Quixtar and they said no, it’s not ok.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:58 am
To answer #16.
No you are.
Next. :>
August 11th, 2007 at 2:10 am
…Wheels coming off the cart…
August 11th, 2007 at 2:17 am
Tracy is a hyopocrite. Here’s why:
She said to Alticor:
“The whole tenor of this posting is unprofessional and disgraceful.”
Then Tracy says to Pete (who is glad for what Alticor did)
“Pete, you’re retarded. What do you know”
I guess that’s what happens when you realize that you really don’t have much control over your business, when the actions of your “leaders” have such a devastating impact. I would recommend Tracy stops following blindly and learns to think for herself…
August 11th, 2007 at 2:52 am
WOW!!!
I’m proud to be associated with Alticor!
WE DONOT NEED SUCH ROBIN HOODS IN OUR SYSTEM!
we need people with integrity!!
Don’t worry abt whether Quixtar/Amway will be over or not - coz Amway will never be over until there’s ME(and others like me!)
We will show you how to build a honest business - We’ll show you how highly retailable our products are - We’ll show you how to be loyal to values(not personalities) - We’ll prove to you that Amway is the best corp there is - We surely will!!!!!!
“Men, men are wanted; everything else will be ready; but strong, vigorous, believing young men and women; a hundred such I can revolutionize the entire world” said Swami Vivekananda a hundred years ago and the same holds good even today!!!!!! I’m proud of Alticor!!
August 11th, 2007 at 3:10 am
I will follow chris and orrin to my grave, and I know thousands of others who will do so as well. good bye Quixtar
August 11th, 2007 at 3:16 am
It’s a sad day for everyone on both sides of the table when things like this happen. Ultimately both parties lose at least something long term. Some large ibos forget that the great responsibilty they hold is not only to lead a business, but to be real, and I do mean real examples to their organizations. It does not matter how big your pin, ego, or sphear of influence eventually gets. If your name is not De Vos or Van Andel, you don’t own the corporation you became affiliated with…. even Dexter Yager understands that. When they say no, they have a very good reason to say no. Many,many livelyhoods of ibos, employees and other associates in many countries around the globe hinge on the accuracy and timeliness of their decisions. We as ibos, when we signed our applications, agreed to follow the rules set forth. The corporation and founding families trust us to always try hard to follow the rules. That’s good business. That’s the heart of the agreement. That’s every ibos responsibility. Ibos have a large voice, but not the only voice. Rich and Jay said they never did anything that they were not in total agreement upon. I’m sure it’s that way with their children. It’s been that way since 1959. If you wouldn’t ask the company to fudge on something like paying sales taxes or corporate income taxes, so they could pay bigger bonuses to ibos, then why would you expect them to agree to something that could cause the FTC to come down on them. Therefore, the company has no choice but to enforce these rules so that all ibos have their opportunity to build large businesses safeguarded. In no way does that diminish the independence of each ibo. The founders of an honest and upright company that relied on your help to be profitable would never just walk up to you one day and say “you’re contract with us is terminated” without first trying everything they could to show you the things that were against the rules you agreed to follow, and give you ample opportunity to correct them. The rules were put there by the company and ibo board to try to keep the kind of things from happening that cause people on the outside looking in to use words like “scamway”. Of course, termination is always the last resort for any mutually beneficial relationship. Orrin and I shared the same Diamond upline, and I knew of him several years ago. I thought he was very nice personally, and a sincere businessman. Sad, Sad that inflated egos over time can cause leaders to not even be willing to consider proper correction from their leaders. We’re all mentored by someone, even if our only mentor, like the apostle Paul, is God Himself. It’s even worse that other older and more experienced leaders chose to follow the “flash in the pan”. I had to learn the hard way, that it’s never smart to sacrifice long term principles by bending the rules all the way to their limit for quicker financial gains. Although, I’m certainly not saying that Orrin or any leaders associated with him could be considered 100% bad. I’m sure that there were many good points in TEAM’s business practices as well. The only reason that some people even think that most of the money is in their “support” businesses, is that some leaders have decided that was where it was going to be for them, and they have every right to make that kind of decision. Except when it conflicts with the rules of the actual business. Remember, we’re independent business owners bound by contract to each other. Then, as a whole, to the corporation for mutual benefit of all parties involved.
All of that being said…. The fact that the Amway/Quixtar business has lasted as long as it has is a testament to the resolve and high standards of its founders and ibo Board, and the spirit of the business invisioned so many years ago by it’s very first distributors and the American Way Association. I’m reminded of something my upline diamond told me several years ago. He said, “This business’s worst day is still better than any other business’s best day.” The longer I’m involved in the regular old traditional business world with its many, many lawsuits, disagreements, hotheaded customers, and everyday stresses, the more I’m finding his statement to be absolutely true. I, speaking for myself, will always be proud to be associated with Amway/Quixtar. It doesn’t matter what difficult decisions have to be made in the future, or had to be made in the past. The corporation and the ibos have already made it through so many things that would have killed off most any other business, and yet it, and the ibos associated with it continue to grow all over the world…sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. After all, these guys are not the first ibos to be kicked out for not playing by the rules after being warned nicely…. nor will they be the last.
August 11th, 2007 at 3:18 am
I recently joined team and was happy. Personally there where things I did not liked. Two CDs a week seemed like too much for some people and $25 dollars for a seminar too. I will not follow them to the new MLM. I will stick with Quixtar. I never liked that thing about hiding the company we were doing bussines with. Also that thing about just having two legs. Now I keep asking myself hundreds of questions right now. What is going to happen to the www.teamespanol.com website? We will still be able to get our tools? What about the tools order Im about to receive and that has already been chaged to my credit card? What about the convention in Fresno in October? Is it going to happen? If not, would they send us our money back? I Dex would have been willing to share more of the tools business money, none of this would have happened.
August 11th, 2007 at 3:44 am
Understand that a “system” is an entity that maintains it’s existence through the mutual interactions of it’s parts. The system people affiliated with Quixtar undertake has 3 mutual parts that if acted upon correctly will produce a positive result. 1.Quixtar is primarily responsible for deliverly of product and payment(that is it),2. The founders and leaders of the organizations are responsible for a training system(you can train people in two ways directly and indirectly. The smartest way would be indirectly so each individual person doesn’t have to physically do it. That’s why the training materials exist and yes there have been some people who messed that part up. And also strategy and structure for building their teams. I know some people are against the whole “linear” structure of building straight down but if you take say six friends and put them on different teams, you have just turned six friends against each other because now they are competing against one another for the same people. I have personally built a business using both strategies and they both have their pros and cons. But what I have found through investigation is that take away the organization affiliated with the structure (TEAM, WWDB, Yeager, etc.) and you will find that to most people building the business in a vertical line vs staggard approach usually makes more sense to people once they see that they would have become competitors vs working in collaboration. 3. But it is the responsibility of each IBO to be trust worthy and teachable of the system and strategy that the founders have put forth along with Quixtar to distribute product and payment to it’s IBO’s. All that to say this, I don’t know and neither does anyone else for that matter who is at fault. Yes everyone has the right to their own opinion and over the years opinions have proven to carry weight but usually don’t carry substance with them. We live in the Information Age now and with all this garbage going around it doesn’t just affect Quixtar, and Team it affects everyone in the MLM industry. The ramifications of what has just happened won’t be seen for some time. But one thing is for sure all the bad mouthing doesn’t help anyone and just hurts everyone. In the past it doesn’t matter if someone did something perfectly right or perfectly wrong. Because when people start gossip and rumors start flying everyone gets painted with the same brush. How many times have you tried to explain what it is you do and you get the usual resonse,”I know what this is or I’ve heard about that”. No wonder Orrin doesn’t want to mention Quixtar because some people somewhere got hurt and ran their mouth or typed some crap on the Internet and people run off and read it and think the person who wants to help is out to get them. Who would want to be affiliated with that. But is it Quixtar’s fault for some of the bad mouthing? Yes and No because regardless who you are the the prices are high but the value is to. But if you are going to build a business where the demographic is wide (young to old and where the majority is on a budget) it’s smart to keep the prices competive and low in all areas. The XS and Protein bar line are perfectly priced and realitivy easy to move but other stuff isn’t. Who’s to say they are over priced, in my experience just the public as a whole. But remember they are primarily responsible for product and payment and I have never heard of a situation where someone didn’t get a product or a refund or a commision check. So in that regard they are doing a fine job. But yes some people have screwed up by making dumb decisions and everyone in the industry gets painted with the evil brush. And then everyone is wasting time trying to defend their own position because someone, somewhere, whom they never met, have no affiliation with did something stupid. So before we all go and take sides just think about the other people out there in the world who have never heard of this type of business or don’t fully understand it. Because after all the business is invisible so to see it you have to get a picture of it with your mind through information and if the information is negative their perception of this type of business will be negative all because we have to protect our egos and start bashing one another. It doesn’t matter who’s right, but what does matter is are we going to do the right thing regarding this situation? We have just witnessed 9/11 within this industry and this time it’s ramifications directly affect the MLM industry. Those names listed above aren’t just IBO’s or just Diamonds. They are industry movers and shakers and have paved the way over the the years to make this industry better and better. I bet money they don’t just put their tales between their lege and run. Some have even won awards for how creative and inventful they were. All I know is that this is HUGE and we will all have to wait and see where this leads. But please for others sake lets watch what we say becasue other lives are at stake not just our own. My challenge to Quixtar, TEAM members, and anyone else who wants to just finger point “MAN UP” and “SHUT UP” with all the informational garbage. Maybe Quixtar was at fault maybe TEAM was at fault. One thing is for sure who ever spreads gossip and crap from here on out will be at fault for putting gas on an already out of control blaze. So try to be a solution not a problem.
August 11th, 2007 at 4:00 am
[…] FROM QUIXTAR/ALTICOR AKA THE CORPORATION FORMALLY KNOWN AS AMWAY: Here is the Amway/Quixtar/Alticor response to TEAM leaders leaving/being terminated via the “Alticor Media Blog” - the official news weblog from the Alticor family of […]
August 11th, 2007 at 4:45 am
It’s very interesting to me that Alticor didn’t make it known what the “trash-talking” lawsuit was about. The suit asks Quixtar to either lower the prices on its products, making it easier for IBO’s to be able to sell their products to actual retail customers, or to come up with new product lines that will be able to be sold to retail customers at a reasonable price. The lawsuit is a very interesting read, stating that The Team is not seeking any money, but rather looking to force Quixtar to lower product prices enabling the IBO to develop bigger businesses as more consumers would purchase products. Somehow, I don’t think Orrin Woodward and The Team are the ones to be blaming for this…
And another interesting fact is that those members that were so called “terminated” by Alticor, actually resigned from their positions on the IBOAI. Thanks for telling the truth Alticor. Keep up the good work on limiting the potential of our businesses so we can line the pockets of the Van Andels and DeVoss’s
Here’s a link to the lawsuit, if anyone’s interested in a good read http://team_orrin_woodward.typepad.com/orrin_woodward/files/Complaint.pdf
August 11th, 2007 at 6:38 am
Tracy said on August 10th: And when we started consuming XS and the Trim Vantage product lines, you dropped the PV on them….now who has integrity issues?!? You guys just can’t pad your pockets enough huh?
Response: The PV/BV ratio is adjusted to keep up with inflation, so our bonus checks go up. The ratio (now at 2.9 from 2.8 in the States)changes by either decreasing the PV or by increasing the BV. If you increase the BV, then you also increase the cost/retail prices. So the Corp could have kept XS at 7.28 PV for a 12-pack (rather than decreasing it to 7.03). But this would mean that you would be paying $21.11/cost and $24.82/retail for that 12-pack (rather than $20.40 and $23.99). The Corp’s desire was to keep the product cost-competitive rather than having an over-priced unsellable product.
August 11th, 2007 at 9:01 am
I can understand your discouragement Alticor, although you seem to be missing the big picture. Giving people the means to attain financial freedom is a big deal, and your decision to fight and make it dirty will only tarnish your reputation. That’s too bad because you cannot stop an idea (or a huge community) whose time has come. Play nice and you can enjoy some fair competition in this journey, or continue to bankroll your pockets and see where that gets you long term. I know where my bets lay.
August 11th, 2007 at 10:26 am
All of you who want to leave can leave!
All of you who think that the products are costly can stop buying them!
All of you who think Alticor has been unjust can think so!
It’s not just India that’s a free country - I guess America too is one!
But I have my faith in Alticor - It’s Alticor that gave me the oppurtunity - All the others are ‘mere’ support systems!
And I’ll tell you this - even if all of you quit - and if it’s only me left in Alticor, I’ll still build it!and I’ll build it big!!!
I’m selling the products,I’m showing the plan - I start by telling them that I have come to show them the Amway business! I’ll see to it that every alternate home on this planet will use Amway products!! If you donot believe in something it’s best you stop doing it!
But I believe in Amway!!And there are many many others like me!
It’s a big corporation and all the decisions they take are based on their interests!
That’s a simple fact!!
I saw the plan and I got sponsored - coz I felt it would give me more choices!
I never wanted to tell them whether they should reduce their prices or not!
That’s their corporate issue!
If I’m not happy I have the choice to quit!!
I know the rules, I know the guidelines and it’s upto me to stick to those - who am I to ask Alticor to do as I say?
Yes, I’ll surely ask them if they did not give me what they said they would.
It’s a fair game!
My sponsor told me all this - I too went thru the rules!
“He who builds according to every man’s advice will have a crooked house …”
August 11th, 2007 at 11:00 am
“hey Alticor, your statement is mean”….give me a break!
Grow up and make a decision…this is Alticor’s business and they set the rules. If you can play by their rules, then go to work and build it big. If you can’t then go away and do something new. I am sick and tired of having to defend the crap on on internet because of people who are to lazy learn how to “sell” the product line. (and yes it is called “selling” not order taking.
Go Alticor, and don’t stop until you have cleaned house!
Mike.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:01 am
That response was fantastic!!! Thank GOD we responded with a strong voice it sounded like it was written by the great Rich Devos himself.Any IBO on here that thinks any different need to get out now.This company is going to thrive without the poison and their tool scam.The true and honest IBO’s will build this business the way it was meant to be built.WE LOVE YOU RICH GO GET ‘EM
August 11th, 2007 at 11:05 am
I don’t fault Orrin or Chris for wanting to start their own MLM. This is America and I wish them good luck. I do have a problem with them thinking Quixtar should release thier organization to them. Look at this professionally please. You cannot say Quixtars product prices are too high and therefore you cannot retail them. This is the reason you say Quixtar is an Illegal Pyramid? C’mon please. Our entire organization is told they need to sell product to get a bonus for their downline. Prices are very competitive with other products that are of the same quality.
Just go quietly and those that want to quit have every right. Just follow the rules and wait 6 months to joint Orrin and Chris.
Let our performance in the field prove who is right. Your lower priced product business vs. our high quality priced business of 48 years.
Lets see who can legally help families achieve their dreams.
Game on…GO!
Good luck Team. Bye.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:07 am
After having been formerly in the TEAM for several years, I still am amazed at the blind adoration for Orrin Woodward. However, I do understand, as it took me some time to “get it.” What I get is that Orrin Woodward now seems to believe his own press! Ask yourself this; which has more retail value, a box of soap, or endless CD’s about the same thing? When I left the TEAM (best decision I ever made) I sold all my “tools” which I had paid over $3,000.00 for at the measley price of $78.00, including my white board, which I actually donated to a Sunday School Class! Orrin and Chris are very smart; smart in how to suck you in, and then dump you when you aren’t pumping dollars into their system. I could say more, but I will save it for a day not far off in the future!
The above is my opinion.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:08 am
The tenor of this blog has me completely sideswiped. I feel like I’ve been sucker-punched. We joined Amway in Germany in 1999 and found the company to be full of pride, integrity, and character. Where did that go? How can a company write such a statement and put it on an official blog referenced to in an official press release. I feel betrayed that they would speak in such a way regardless of what their ‘offenders’ may have done. We’re not in Kansas anymore.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:17 am
After seeing the email from Quixtar in my Inbox yesterday morning, I called the Corporation, and talked with Norma in Conduct and Rules; she was wonderful! I was finally able to vent about things I had seen, things I had happen to me, and things that had been deliberately done to me, in an attempt to shut me up over the last few years! Norma in rules appalled at what I was telling her; which I can back up with proof. Anyone who realized what some people on TEAM were really up to, and tried to help people they cared about to get out by simply pointing out some actual facts were treated like lepers, ostracized, shunned, and had bad things spread about them, and then some.
This is my opinion.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:57 am
Some of the above comments are LONG. Can’t you get your ideas across with less words?
I can’t wait for the court case, because all of the higher pin ex-IBO’s have made a LOT more money on overpriced tools than the overpriced Quixtar products. I look forward to how the former IBO’s address this issue.
Good riddance, TEAM. Don’t let the door hit your backside on the way out.
August 11th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
It’s good to stir up debate like this, but Team isn’t out to fight Amyway (we might as well call it what it is. The names quixtar and alticor are going away). Team wants to be able to do their own thing. It’s evolution people. If you have “allegiances” to Amway, that’s fine, but bottom line is, Amway is a business, and is in it for money. Team wanted more freedom than was allowed, therefore asked to split amicably. For Amway, that’s a big BUSINESS LOSS. Don’t you think they would fight it? We have entirely different schools of thinking here, and it’s a lot bigger than just Orrin Woodward. 8 members of the IBOAI board resigned. EIGHT. Why? Because there is a better way. Be thankful for free enterprise people and good luck.
August 11th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
This “blog” is unprofessional at best. At worst, it’s complete trash.
Does anyone know why it’s Orrin Woodward being called out by Alticor? It’s because Woodward is the guy that’s been banging down their doors trying to change the way things have been run.
I am NOT a TEAM member. I am no longer an IBO. I’m 27 and used to be affiliated with TEAM when it was a part of the BSM’s distributed by Don Wilson’s group. My parents were also in the old Amway business.
Having seen both sides, I can say with 100 percent confidence that TEAM did the right thing standing up for their organization. For years, my biggest complaint about Quixtar/Amway was that it was underhanded. They weren’t up front about a lot of things - including how tools were distributed, who profited off them and how much, how the pay structure REALLY worked, etc. Those are just a few issues but I felt were extremely important and yet Quixtar refused to change their methods.
You want to call out Woodward for lying to new IBO’s? What would you call it when you quote a likely income to a new IBO when they reach a certain level, yet fail to tell them that 66 percent of that income actually comes from tools and not the plan itself?
TEAM probably is being hypocrites about certain things - ironically enough, standing up for Quixtar all those years and now having to expose it for what it really is. That said, it’s really QUIXTAR that refuses to adapt to new concepts. But instead, Alticor is choosing propaganda to tarnish the reputation of TEAM and specifically, Woodward. That’s classic.
August 11th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
I’ve noticed one reoccurring theme throughout these replies: Hardly anyone actually read the complaint that was filed by TEAM. Don’t post any more ridiculous comments if you don’t know what you’re posting about. The complaint is detailed and thorough in pointing out the wrongdoings in Alticor’s business. READ THE COMPLAINT, THEN POST!
Quixtar will not survive this.
TEAM already has the infrastructure set up to compete.
TEAM has been dominating in Quixtar’s business for over 5 years (look at the stats)
TEAM will prevail in this!
August 11th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
Does anyone even realize what Woodward is saying…His team tried to recruit me by saying: “own your own business and buy from yourself, then teach other to do the same” This was HIS system teaching – NOT Quixtar’s/Alticor – “HIS system” – you know, the one that is “full proof” if you follow it faithfully.
Now he is saying that Quixtar/Alticor is the illegal pyramid. Quixtar/Alticor didn’t create Woodward’s System. Quixtar/Alticor tells you to retail, Woodward’s System tells you to self consume and teach others to do the same. Quixtar/Alticor doesn’t put on his functions that teaches this over and over and over again.
Woodward has made Millions by what he now calls over-priced merchandize, but yet he knew this - and still kept bringing others into what he NOW admits he knew his own company was operating as an illegal pyramid. Come on people, can he really be serious about this law suit. It is really laughable to me.
Now, let’s put blame where it needs to be… Quixtar/Alticor allowed many of these systems to operate like this knowingly for WAY to long - that Blame is on them. Shame on Quixtar/Alticor for that…however, at least I must say they are finally stepping up to the plate to try and correct this. When they do, this now forces Woodward to stop promoting a “System” that encourages its IBO’s to operate as an illegal pyramid (self consume and teach others) and Woodward now wants to sue Quixtar/Alticor on the basis that it is an illegal pyramid. Come on, does anyone else see how ridiculous this is sounding???
One more thing…if Woodward knew and warned Quixtar/Alticor that it’s prices were to high then his integrity should caused him to warn his down line about the situation. Did anyone ever hear out of anyone’s mouth at any function that Quixtar WASN”T the best opportunity in the world – NO, he sold it whole heartedly to everyone that it was the best products for the price. So, his integrity is in horrible question in my opinion, as he led thousands of people into a business that even he himself thought was illegal and impossible to be successful with because of the high prices.
Woodward and Team members – WAKE UP! Put the logic together, smell the coffee brewing in your own kitchen and put blame where it is truly due. Turn off that coffee pot; go to Starbuck’s for a fresh cup for a new perspective on things. Good luck to all that is locked up in this mess. May God help all of you to see through this fog and find out where your loyalty should lie. Only each of you individually can make that decision.
God Bless.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
What’s done is done. TEAM WILL move on to BIGGER & (as I clearly see it now, due to this “blog”) Better things. There are many unprofessional statements and emotions involved with this blog. Although “Quixtar” provides near second-to-none products, it appears there is pride, greed, and lack of professionalism at the top of Alitcor. This kind of business will not survive on product alone, Business and a Community are the KEYS.
I agree with the statements about Christian values and the apparent lack of these values within this whole process of events. We are here to help others SUCCEED, not wallow in our pride of “who’s write and whos’ wrong, Do It MY WAY or HIT the HIGHWAY” thinking. It takes a community to create a successful Internet Business! It appears Alticor is not very interested in what is best for it’s Community.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
I am a 16 year frustrated IBO who has been a platinum for 9 years. I have never had a month where I have showed the approved marketing plan less than 10 times per month. My business has started each year with an average of 130 Ibo’s and ended with an average of around 170. Each year with the drop out rate bringing my business back to the year before. I merged with TEAM in the past year and under their building concepts I have finally found a better way to grow my business.
I had to resort to the Quixtar’s company tactics in order to grow. When a prospect calls Quixtar for a business opportunity or more information they refer them to a Diamond in their area. I figured I should do the same thing when a person I meet wants to learn more about my business I should refer them to the person I am working with in depth. For some reason when I do this the Quixtar company calls this STACKING?
Did you confront the board before you decided to change the Quixtar business into the Amway business? Did you confront the board about changing the registration procedures? Do you think IBO’s across the country are going to trust you when you take all these matters in you own hands?
I just reviewed the 08 incentives and realized the combined bonuses sacrificed by the IBOA board members you just terminated would reach well into the 7 figure mark. I know from my 24 years of service that one thing is the TRUTH. People will not sacrifice their lives for money, but they will for a CAUSE. I believe that the board members you expelled have giving much for our cause then you will ever understand. I would rather be in the battle with someone willing to go before me, than send me before them. You have to be in the living rooms across our great land in order to gain the respect you seek. You are throwing stones while your house is made of glass.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
I just have to say that no matter what your opinion realize that building an Amway/Quixtar business is going to get a lot tougher. If you haven’t read the 47-page legal complaint I encourage you to do so. After reading it I realized that the FTC will without a doubt be investigating the corporation. You will hear about this on the news and people will be hesitant about joining.
I also want to ask everyone out there that says the products are easy to retail, what products are you retailing and how much a month. Excluding XS products, bars and gift albums what are you retailing? I have retailed Double X and SA8 in the past but I have never been able to keep those customers long term because they end up saying they weren’t seeing a major difference to justify the price they had to pay.
I believe the drinks, bars and gift albums are easier to retail but that is exactly what Team is complaining about. Those products are priced better for retailing than others.
I also have a hard time digesting everything the corporation is saying because of some of the people involved. Chuck Geotshel and Fred Harteis both only recently teamed up with Team (within the past year or less). These two guys have large groups which they tossed away just because Orrin said so…I don’t see it, just not logical in any sense. The Team diamonds and those that have been associated for several years I can see being loyal and standing behind Orrin BUT the others that are newly affiliated doesn’t make sense.
August 11th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
This is a very large array of comments, I am a little suprised by the negative media that everyone is vomitting. I am guessing that everyone in this forum is pursuing business ventures in one way shape or form. All of us no matter what our affiliation are trying to make a positive impact on society for our family, community, and friends sake. My wife and I have truly been touched by the people that our involved in many different organizations that drive traffic to quixtar. We wish all of you the best of luck and if I see anyone on the street wearing a xs hat I will cheer you on. As for the team and the leadership of the team we have chosen to part ways and we wish everyone and strong and profitable business.
In closing all of us our humans and have emotions and don’t always say or do the right things. I know one thing thou Orrin’s heart is in the right place even if you don’t agree with him or me. Joe thanks for your positive comments and iron sharpens iron we will see you at the top.
Dream , Struggle, Victory
August 11th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Hey guys, if orrin had character; he would not have been voilating rules as he did. There may be alot of goods folks in Team, but if you are stacking, putting people under other folks, the sponsor never showed the plan to that person, never new that person before in there life… You are un-ethical and a part of a system that is doing things wrong. In milwaukee my ibo went to a meeting where they said things like stacking, can’t sponsor a 2nd leg until 4 month, using a Brit World Wide Diamonds Sem/Rally trng CDS burned onto another disk. They probabley did not have permission to do that and that is stealing. Those CDS cost money. The IBO called up his upline to ask what was going on with the business and said “how does this thing work?” The upline said what do you mean, I sponsored five people under you. Got an email from his upline telling him who his sponsor was and saying you will meet him at the meeting. When asked about the legality of that, the upline stated “we found a loop hole!” Give me a break! other new ibo’s were asked “who is your sponsor, they would say, I don’t know!” if your apart of team and did any of those things; your performing illigal practices (in the eyes of the government). change organizations! For those of you doing this crap and you have been in the business for over ten months, you knew what you were doing.
August 11th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
One other thing. Most of these comments on the forum don’t discuss the risk involved in what the leadership of the TEAM did. They put all monitary volume a side, and said enough is enough. All of our leaders have nothing to gain and everything to lose(monitarily). I am proud to be a part of the TEAM and look forward to leading the charge to a million people. We will see you on the battlefield.
Good Luck in all your endeavors
August 11th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
As an IBO that signed up to TEAM, I want to say that the main reason I initially signed up was just to get my brother-in-law off my back. I actually went to a couple of “seminars” (which you have to pay to go to) and what struck me the most was how much of a dog and pony show it was. All the men dress EXACTLY the same (white shirt, same color tie and dark pants) it was spooky. The only thing they were missing was the kool-aid for everyone to drink.
Sorry Team, but your practices are based on deception, and border on brainwashing. If you decide to follow Woodward and the others, make sure you let us know how the accommodations are in prison.
August 11th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Responce to Mike. If the corp. can stack under IBO’s of their choice, Why can’t we?
August 11th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
I get a kick out of comment 48. Tex complaining about long posts…
August 11th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
I am aprehensive to write here, but feel I must. The information being put forth by Amway/Quixtar is misleading and wrong. Orrin Woodward and the Team have been the fastest growing organization affiliated with Quixtar for the last 6 or more years. The IBOs who have been “terminated” (the actually resigned from the IBOAI board first) are only the specific IBOs named as plaintiffs in a class action lawsuit brought agains Quixtar because their pricing is so out of line. For Quixtar to edify and support the way Orrin and the Team have built their business for so long and then only now terminate only specific IBOs doesn’t make any sense with why they say they are terminating them. There are thousands of other IBOs who have built their businesses the same way as Orrin and the others who have been terminated, but Quixtar didn’t terminate them. I highly recommend anybody that is thinking Quixtar is right in this situation read the legal filings by Orrin and the others. You will find the truth there. Orrin and the Team are not looking for monetary compensation. They are just looking for a wrong to be righted.
Orrin is showing true leadership in his sacrifice of himself in front of his team while Quixtar has shown the opposite in slapping the faces of every IBO on the Team by writing this blog.
The TEAM is going to a Million and beyond!!
August 11th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Very interesting posts folks. I recently attended a TEAM open meeting as our LOS only recently affiliated with TEAM. I was amazed to hear the speaker affirm that Orrin and Chris had invented the Quixtar website themselves after hearing Michael Dell speak in Detroit. Amazing. Not telling them they were signing up with Quixtar - that is the truth.
This post from Alticor is not directed at the IBOs affiliated. Chris and Orrin taught a system that was non-compliant with the Rules. As a long-time IBO I would caution anyone - do not follow your upline blindly. You are adults, many of you are business people already. You are an INDEPENDENT BUSINESS OWNER. Start acting like one. I am glad this came out - as I have been observing the TEAM’s methods and checking it out before jumping in wholeheartedly. I am sure glad I did.
Despite whatever my LOS decides to do, I am not hitching my wagon to these guys. See Passport, see TeaminFocus and all the others that left to start their own MLM. Why trash Quixtar’s pricing? Because you plan on being a competitor. And they will fail, just as all the others have, unfortunately. Why start your own MLM? Because they want to sqeeze more money out the the IBOs.
Have you heard Orrin & Chris’s mission? 1 Million IBOs? They are in it to move tools - and they have positioned themselves as such. So with a new MLM they will still support their lifestyle. Why do you think that NONE of their tools have the Content Reviewed approval from Quixtar on it? Hmm?
To the TEAM IBOs - do your homework, engage your brain. Don’t be a drone. Watch - Quixtar will reach out to assist and support you in your INDEPENDENT business - they are just saying So long to your TEAM “leaders”.
Stay Smart
August 11th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
What do you expect when you work with a company that you have signed agreements with and then you violate the written rules and the spirit of the rules. Then you lie and poison the well for others? Clearly the behaviour is so ingrained that someone actually wrote that they had to “fudge” client reporting to get their bonus. One of the conerstone differentiators that AMWAY had to install to keep this a LEGAL business for all of us, and you think that it makes sense to “fudge”? And makes your approach the viable duplicatable and ethical one? I sincerely hope that TEAM members that want to build this business find their way to great lines of sponsorship!
August 11th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Those people threatened my business along with everyone else in this business.My hope is that the terminations don’t stop with TEAM but continue with any other orginazation that threatens the future of this great business.Any moron that says are products are overpriced should have their head examined and obviously doesn’t understand 3rd grade math.For one thing for about $8.00 you can literally have gallons of L.O.C i won’t go on with other examples because people who say that the products are priced to high are just trying to find a excuse to not build a business.
August 11th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
actually after taking time and I do mean time to read number 61 and the lawsuit I can kindof can see the point behind the resignations. I do agree that they wouldn’t be walking away with the potential of losing it all if they weren’t doing it for a cause they believed in especially with there being so many different organizations joining together. I think for all our sakes our leaders need to meet without the corporation and try to sort this out since we have all been told “it is your own business”
August 11th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Terri: your comment was heartfelt, and we’d like to post it; however, the comment was far too long for us to post. If you could provide us with a shorter version, if that’s okay with you, we’d be happy to post it here. Please note that we do not wish to censor you; rather, we need to watch the length of these comments.
Everybody else: thank you for the feedback, and keep it coming.
August 11th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
I am a diamond’s daughter- one in this well over 30 years. They love this company and truly believe even on this day that the STRUCTURE of this business works and is honorable. They were never a part of TEAM. They invested into the system but they also retailed so they could pay for their investment. The core products were the foundation of this business and even though the factor of 3 was there at the beginning, the original founders cared enough about the people that there was very high PV/BV on the coreline products so there was room for markup.HOWEVER, a new generation took over and maybe in the beginning they wanted to be like their dad’s, but over time GREED entered.. Pv/bv lowered on the core line and eventually there was less of a core line- now you were paying more and there was less incentive to retail the line.You wonder why many on the IBO board left- it is not because men who have been with the company (some over 3o years) just got star struck with Orrin, heck there are diamonds across the country right now who are resigning because what was stated in that lawsuit was exactly what has been stated privately between other leaders and also to the corporation for years. Please do not be fooled by the fact that the corporation is saying that it was because of keeping the name Quixtar quiet or because of stacking because THE CORPORATION approved the concept as long as the last person sponsored would know the person who sponsored him. The CORPORATION produced literature for TEAM to explain the stacking idea and what the people would make. If stacking was the issue then why was Orrin not let go years ago- why would the CORPORATION have produced the literature to explain the concept? and if it was about keeping a name quiet then ,dear God, how many across this country should be kicked out who have nothing to do with Orrin? There are many diamonds who have integrity and honor who are seeing something is clearly wrong with the pricing structure.These are who you would NEVER have thought they would ever even consider leaving a company they have invested their lives in. People who have tried to do the right thing for a very long time- people who have been loyal despite what they have seen taking place. These are people who were voted onto the IBO board because people believed in them, believed they wanted the best for the IBO’s not just the interests of the family. They have tried to stay faithful, tried to believe the best of the current owners. In that room during the IBO board meeting there was not firings going on, there was alot of resigning going on. And there have not been a lot of terminating of businesses going on in the past 24 hours- there has been alot of prayerful decisions being made by people whose entire lives have been invested in this business and those under them. Those who have made a decision (despite what it may cost them) to do what is right. To say ENOUGH! These are not just TEAM players, these are leaders across organizations who want the best for their groups. They want to see growth and success. Many who have believed in the system from the very concept and still do believe in it- who have been loyal and faithful to the business and the people who now are alligning and saying ENOUGH! Do you think after this many years of investing themselves into the business and the people they have grown to love that they would not say “Enough” without a very good reason? Why in one day would the trust you have held for these leaders and the friendships you have held with them change because a corporation says they are essentially evil? And you DIAMONDs and above who have know many of these men, known their integrity even though you weren’t part of their particular business-DON’T WRITE THEM OFF. How about for once in your lives actually call a meeting of the leaders across the business and reveal your hearts instead of keeping yourselves quiet because God forbid you crossline. Maybe for once you all need to look at the same page and see if there is truth in this complaint - begin to look at the people under you and why you built this in the first place.
August 11th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
Terri: Thank you.
Everybody else: From this point forward, aim for 2-3 paragraphs if you can. We know some will go over while others will be much shorter, but we do appreciate your cooperation.
August 11th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Greg,
I’ve been going to TEAM open meetings for 4 years and never once have I heard the Orrin and Chris invented the quixtar website. If that’s what you heard, I’m sorry but that’s not how the TEAM’S plan goes.
August 11th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
dear administrator- sorry… I attempted to save it MUCH shorter but when I pressed send it ended up saving the first. Sorry, I did try to save it shorter.
August 11th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Thank you Terri. Through this whole process my main concern has been when we signed up under AmWay were were told that the difference between this and any other MLM was that it was controlled by the Board (IBOAI) who were IBOs just like us. That they were there to not only help their business, but wouldn’t do anything to harm our business. I trusted this and now see that this was true, the IBOAI RESIGNED for my business and the integrity of what I have been telling others in my downline. Thank you for standing up for what I believed in all along. You were there for my business.
August 11th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
I like how it says… “Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.” thats funny considering that at the top right hand corner of this page there is a link that says
“Get Rich-Quick”
August 11th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
QUIXTAR has no system, QUIXTAR has never given me advice on dealing with people, money, health, marraige,family, wealth managment,goal setting, life planning, and a myriad of many other things that my association with TEAM has. Number don’t lie, TEAM builds the person, the person builds the business, QUIXTAR groups outside of TEAM are dying off, the old gaurd is falling, QUIXTAR has made a very unproffitable and unwise decision. As the old saying Goes,” Men of integrity expect to be believed, when they are not, they let time Prove them right. ” Time will vindicate TEAM leadership, and i will stand with them until, and when it does, as should everyone else. TEAM is built around just that, a team, not a “yauger” or “britt” stage, but around the equal oppurtunity for all of it’s players, the future is BRIGHT , JUST GO TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 11th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
If you believe what “Q” has to say I feel very sorry for you. SEE for yourself check out the copy of the “TEAM’S” lawsuit then make an INTELLIGENT decision . its all about whats best for us IBO’S . THE TEAM ROCKS!!!!!!!!!http://team_orrin_woodward.typepad.com/orrin_woodward/2007/08/index.html#entry-37568460
August 11th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
Unfortunately the very same reasons that Quiztar talks about in regards, exist in BWW too! I’m from India and it is highly recommended by leaders not to introduce the name of Amway untill the lag end of the presentation, and that too only once. And yes, even here Amway is talked about as a Supply corporation. Infact in a double diamond Kumar Sivaramakrishnan’s tape, he categorically says that Quixtar is just another supply partner, like many others! I decided to quit the business after realising many other gross irregularities in the business and especially the systems! I wish Quixtar did the same to all the other systems too. it would be some good riddance for sure!
August 11th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
I’ve been with Team for four years. I love everything about the business system and our leaders, despite the high prices of the shopping portal we’ve used. A high majority of people have joined our business and quit because of the high-priced products. Furthermore, I’ve personally signed up over 20 customers and they have never purchased a single product. Something had to change, regardless of whether change is comfortable. Orrin and Billy and others asked for changes for years - to please just drop these prices. Quixtar wouldn’t budge. These guys are true heroes of the people they lead with humble, servant leadership. They could lead an extremely comfortable life with what they have, yet they choose to work and build bridges for their people! Amazing!
Yes, Quixtar, please just let the Team go peacefully. Let the IBO’s choose who they want to follow and just be graceful about it. Give them a reason to have less doubts about returning should things not go well in their endeavors. You might be pleasantly surprised that some will stay and be faithful purchasers of some of your fine products even though most of the prices are quite unreasonable. Please drop the non-compete clause and end the slinging of mud. Thanks for listening.
August 11th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
The posting by the Corp was one of the most ugly, unprofessional things I’ve read in a long time. It really makes one wonder exactly -who- is are the bad guys here? It’s curious that the Corp still hasn’t addressed the points Team leaders made in their lawsuit, namely that it’s almost impossible to retail most of their products considering the prices they charge at wholesale. Shame on you.
August 11th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
What seems really odd to me is that when Bo Short and so many others Diamonds that have already resigned in the past years — and there are many —they resigned for these very same reasons as Orrin is claiming to now! YET - Orrin and Company raked them over the coals for bad mouthing the company all the while knowing Bo Short was right. WOW ! What lack of integrity there is in this business. After knowing this how in your right mind can you claim the Leader’s of Team are upright and honest men.
I have found that when people have to announce to everyone that they are so Christian and we are so honest and have so much integrity — that, well, —it is usually to cover up that they are lacking all such qualities they claim so desperately to have.
I will say this…if Alticor doesn’t correct all the other System’s/AMO or terminate all other IBO ships that are doing the same as Orrin…and we know they are all doing the same thing just about. Then Alticor is revealing the cards in their hands…and the hand is not a good one.
Alticor you have to clean it all up or we will know you are just playing a game to save your backside.
August 11th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
I for one will make sure that I go into my settings on the Quixtar (soon to be Amway site) and take my “Auto Renew” checkmark off. In the event I need to evaluate my situation, I wouldn’t want to forget about that.
Love ya all!
August 11th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
I am confused as to how Orrin, Chris, Tim and others can say that the products are unmarketable, overpriced and the business is not viable after they have made millions from people buying these same products. I have been involved with another direct selling cosmetic company. I can say that Artistry is very much competitively priced. We have done our homework on SA8 with Tide, Cheer and others. It is competitively priced. I believe Quixtar’s food items are overpriced so I don’t buy them. Ultimately if you want quality products your going to have to pay a little more. For us it is more convenience than to make a quick buck.
We have been to seminars in which the products were promoted by Orrin, Laurie, Chris, Terri, Tim, Amy and many other “leaders”. Now they have changed their stance which to me shows a lack of integrity. They promoted a DOT 1 STEP program in which you were to have certain core products on a Ditto order that processed on the first of the month. Never mind if it fit in your budget to have it on the first or if you wanted or liked these products. You were to do it in order to attend special meetings. We never attended these “special meetings” as we were not into mind control. I don’t like people telling me when to order or what I should order.
TEAM members need to make up their own minds and not be led like sheep by Orrin and his band. He is not a god. He is a man with a lot of money and an over inflated ego that has a lot of stuff. The biggest thing that I seen being taught was materialism. Not exactly a Christian principle. There were a lot of problems we seen with the TEAM and our membership with them went inactive a couple of years ago. Thank goodness we stopped lining his pockets.
August 11th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
I have just been reading the postings here and figured I would add my two cents.
1. In the regular world, if you are a lawyer and leave a firm and ‘poach’ clients from that firm to start your own, it is concidered improper or maybe even illegal.
2. If someone calls Qixtar about becoming an IBO, they will refer them to someone in their area. They don’t sign them up under that person, just refer. It is up to that person to talk to that person and sponsor them.
3. I work my normal job in a retail store. They will not keep you on if you get a second job in another retail store that sells similar items as it is a conflict of interest. If it is in a company that is not in direct competition with them there is no problem. That is normal.
4. If I didn’t like the way the owners of the store I work in ran things and tried to tell them they needed to change things to the way I wanted, they would show me the door.
It seems to me that too many people are trying to justify the way the TEAM and others are acting and conducting business. Justifying anything that is wrong, illegal or immoral doesn’t make a thing right.
Quixtar has said they are making improvements to the business over the next 2 years. I say hold your critisim and see what they do. If you don’t like it then you can leave.
I read the lawsuit and they kept saying that Alticor was forcing people to buy things they could not sell and not let them leave the business when they wanted to. Last time I checked, Alticor wasn’t sending ‘hit men’ out to keep the IBO’s in line.
August 11th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
Wow. I must say that the decision of Team to remove themselves from association with Quixtar/Alticor is seeming better and better. While Team has kept its members informed with well thought out and professional information, Quixtar/Alticor has sent out information that seems bitter and hurtful. I especially like the fear-mongering techniques. From the e-mail I received letting me know how much they love and appreciate me, “And, we should note that no IBO has left Amway or Quixtar and successfully launched a competing business.”
I realize there are two sides to every story and each side will tell that story in the manner that is most benefitial to them, but when one side is quoting facts and the other is coming off like a schoolyard bully and using fear its not hard to pick sides.
And for everyone that believes that the Team lawsuit is trumped up and done in spite, I invite you to read it. And then to make your own decision. I believe you will find, especially those of us that have been around a while that the claims made are in fact true.
For those that don’t have the time or desire to read through the document, all the Plaintifs are asking for is that the non-compete and anti-raiding clauses be deemed non-lawful and dropped. In simple terms, let people who choose to leave Quixtar/Alticor leave, and let them pursue income in another venture. Just Go Team? We’re trying.
Another good read would be of the contract you have signed (including the changes they have made over the past few years) and be aware of how you might have agreed to things you were not aware of. I worked for a major corporation and the non-compete clause I was under was nowhere as strict in the way it caused me to not be able to earn an income elsewhere.
Properly informed is power. Don’t mudsling and be led around like school children. Get the information and make your own informed decision.
Thank you.
August 11th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Quixtar is a fake and scam. Anyone who signed up with TEAM signed Quixtar papers at the same time knowing that this was a Quixtar Business Opportunity. This makes me HATE QUIXTAR. I say we wage WAR against them. We know who our leaders are and who the enemy is. Lets make this a civil war and fight to the death! Lets bring Amway to extinction and remove their names from the history books.
Amen
August 11th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
I just heard this news today, and all I could say was WHOA. These weren’t small fish that Alticor canned. Orrin Woodward? Don Wilson? Wow, these were guys that sat on so many IBOAI boards. I mean, wasn’t Wilson Vice-Chairman for a while?
Thank god I’m a member of the well