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Alticor Media Blog is the official news weblog from the Alticor family of companies.
August 10th, 2007 @ 3:59 pm ET…
Just go, Team
You can post a comment or trackback from your own site.
We terminated Orrin Woodward yesterday, along with several other leaders of his field organization, named Team. We’ll post our formal statement when it’s ready. Informally, here’s the story:
We terminated Orrin Woodward for philosophical reasons. We did it for legal reasons.
But the main reason we did it is because the way Orrin Woodward ran his organization was a disgrace to every person who’s ever tried to build a Quixtar or Amway business the right way.
We have fought to clean up the reputation of our company for years. We know that one of the biggest challenges our reputation faces is misrepresentation of the Quixtar and Amway businesses to others.
And over the last several months, it became clear to us that Orrin Woodward was a poster child for a long list of bad business practices that our critics hate about our company. The other leaders we terminated – including Chris Brady, Billy Florence, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Tim Marks and Chuck Goetschel – also showed they were unwilling to reform.
Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could.
Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.
Telling people that Quixtar was merely a “supplier,” and not the company they were signing a contract with? Yup.
We’d told Woodward we had problems with the way he ran his business for years, and we worked methodically to bring those problems to resolution. We got ignored, we got lied to, and, boy, we got the runaround.
So in the end, yesterday, we tried to give him one last chance to reform.
He didn’t even want to hear his options. So we terminated him. And in return, he handed us a trumped-up, trash-talking lawsuit on his way out the door. In response, we have a temporary restraining order issued by a court that prevents him from looting the business as he seeks to take his act to a new company.
So he’s gone, and so are others. We are doing our best to repair the relationships Orrin Woodward damaged and protect the businesses of the people in his organization that Orrin Woodward betrayed. And we will continue building our business with thousands of people who know how to build it the right way.
We would say we were sorry to see Orrin Woodward go. But only if that were true.
Filed by: Corporate Communications
Posted in: Alticor, Amway, Quixtar, Transformation
August 10th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
We will. Way beyond scamway.
August 10th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
I proud to be associated with Orrin Woodward. He’s a man of charecter and intergrity and I will go where he goes. I’m not going to miss quixtar (or amway or alticor or whatever they want to call themselves) at all.
August 10th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
it’s about time some bite was put into the rules. for years violaters have went unpunished. ignoring the problems have done more damage to our reputation than the problems themselves. keep up the good work
August 10th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
Yes!
Today, I am more proud than I’ve ever been before to be an IBO with the Alticor/Quixtar/Amway business!
Thank you, thank you, thank you—for doing what you did AND for letting the world know.
August 10th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
Alticor CC, did you read your statement over before you posted it??? It’s the INTERNET, guys — you just made your formal statement!!! Did you think about the possibility of alienating or hurting many thousands of our colleagues affiliated under the TEAM umbrella who are weighing who to believe, and which way they should elect to go? “Just go, Team?” The hot words that may have been exchanged behind closed doors on the 9th don’t translate well to the Internet, nor is it smart PR. Perhaps a small apology to your readers for hasty words might be in order as you pause to regain your professional composure.
August 10th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Orrin Woodward and TEAM: Alticor comes out swinging
August 10th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
Wow!!!!
I would say this is not a professionally written letter. Sound like someone is bitter and wants the world to know it. If I were Amway and if I was truly worried about my reputation, I would have never posted a document like this (especially on the internet).
I think this letter was written when someone was still anger and did not have it proofread by multiple people.
I don’t know what the real story is and there is always two sides to every story. The Teams states they left due to high prices and Quixtar says it is because of The TEAM’s approach on stacking. I feel it is on the account of two bull headed corporations that did not realize that they need each other to be successful. Instead of work out their difference and being professional about the matter, they have involved themselves in a mudsling match.
My final though is for being two companies so involved in so called “Christian” values…….
I guess what I am trying to say is this What Jesus Would Do?*
*This statement is based on what the Founders of The TEAM and Founding Family Members of Amway believe. I am not a Christian, nor do I believe in Jesus.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
i have to agree with rdknyvr, as a member of TEAM i feel like i’ve been slapped across the face by someone holding out their other hand saying they want to be my business partner. i’m not orrin why slap me? you said things to orrin about what he was doing? fine; you never said anything to me. the first thing i heard i was being slapped! you’re right, and thanks for saying it rdknyvr. amway/alti whatever might be the big company that can take away my # for this but i backed them about canada and everything else ever since, but when things get tight first thing they do is slap me.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:41 pm
I must say as an IBO for several years I am sickened. First so you know I am new to Team as my upline has recently affiliated themselves with Team.
Secondly, what Team states in their official legal complaint is true. My family has been purchasing products for personal consumption for years only to get a bonus. I fudge my “client reporting” numbers to get that bonus… so does my downline. I have retailed some products but its never a long lasting client as they get tired of the high prices. XS and the bars ARE the only products that are comparable to similar products on a retail price level…they are the easiest to market as well because of that reason. My family will be buying more from WalMart because of this situation and only buying XS and such to get our bonus.
Third, this blog posting from Alticor is absolutely disgraceful. Even if I was not associated with Team I would be offended by the hatred that is coming through this posting. Quixtar only does billions in sales because of the IBO’s and to show this much hatred to any IBOs, for any reason, is unprofessional at best.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
That was a poor article Altcor. This sounds more like a kid on a playground than a respectable buisness. You are hurting a lot of people who don’t have a clue what is going on. You call that good buisness practice?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Exciting to see that you mean business with the new transformations and reputation. Please dont’ stop there, I hope you don’t just make an example of team and ignore other abuses. I’m not a critic, I’m a faithful active IBO, and I SUPPORT and LIKE the idea of a system.
With that said, some of the stuff like religion and politics preaching or presenting the System as non-optional (i.e. requiring a System Kit to start up IBOs) is out of hand.
I hope ALL people that are in breach of rules will be asked to change, not just TEAM. There are many other guilty ones.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
I am ashamed at the position that “Quixtar” is taking on this. Being an IBO for some time, I can’t say how many people complain about prices - and that’s at IBO COST. I have a MIL that bought products from Amway in the 80’s, and when she recognized SA8, bought some, only to tell me she couldn’t buy more because it was to expensive and messed her budget up. I can honestly say I never heard Orrin or Chris or anyone affiliated with Team say a negative word about Quixtar or Alticor. To see this is absolutely appauling. The title of this article was even disgraceful. It seems like they are wanting every IBO affiliated with TEAM to leave. Do you realize some Team affiliated IBO’s could take this as you telling them to leave, essentially damaging their pursuit of free enterprise, and the potential ramifications of such a statement? And the last comment - the Van Andels and DeVoss’ have made millions of dollars off of this team, and to see this comment makes me feel like all any of us IBO’s are is a buck. When the buck want’s more for it’s buck and speaks up, it’s discarded of and they will find someone else to take advantage of. It makes me think of some of those old mafia movies where the gangster tells the politician they better play ball or they will find another one who will.
For those wondering why I put “Quixtar” in quotes, it is because of their plan within 2 years to change the name back to Amway. Amway still, to this day, is one of the most disliked names in this country. Any time I have shown the plan to a prospect, if they mentioned Amway at all, it was negative. If the company does do this, they will destroy Quixtar and a lot of IBO’s businesses, who I imagine, will hold them responsible.
Alticor - shame on you. What would your fathers say?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:25 pm
This is a sad day, when people who claim to have Jesus Christ in their lives treat each other this way on the internet, for all to see (read). This hurtful verbal rock throwing is totally unprofessional, and does not represent what many of us are really about, whether we are in Quixtar/Alticor/Amway or in TEAM.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:49 pm
If you break the rules big time and get caught with a regular company you get fired.
They were asked over and over to stop.
Good for Alticor
August 10th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
The whole tenor of this posting is unprofessional and disgraceful. This is NOT what I would have expected from a corporation of your size and stature, but I guess I was mistaken and size really doesn’t count for much.
We are active IBO’s with the TEAM who by the way would follow Orin and Chris to the ends of the Earth, We have just personally signed up five new IBO’s recently and frankly your BLOG is so offensive, I don’t even know how to begin to explain your actions to them.
Beyond your lash-out at the TEAM, you KNOW your prices are ridiculous, we all know it. And when we started consuming XS and the Trim Vantage product lines, you dropped the PV on them….now who has integrity issues?!? You guys just can’t pad your pockets enough huh?
Oh well, You can keep throwing mud, calling names, you might as well start praying, but make no mistake where the loyalties of the Team lie, they lie with the founders of the TEAM, Woodward and Brady. They are the kind of men that you will never be. And they don’t sling mud in an offensive BLOG. So good luck to you all, keep up the good work in consuming your products for PV, and hopefully the AMWAY name change goes well for you.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
Pete, you’re retarded. What do you know
August 11th, 2007 at 12:08 am
TEAM has solid leadership with character and integrity… Look up what leadership means and I think you will agree, Quixtar is almost over… Nice job TEAM (WOODWARD - BRADY) YOU ROCK!!!
August 11th, 2007 at 12:25 am
What I find interesting is that Orrin Woodward is saying a lot of the same stuff that Bo Short said several years ago, yet Orrin blasted and badmouthed Bo every chance he got.
How can people on the TEAM feel good about that?
If Orrin knew Bo Short was right in a lot of areas, why would he (as a leader?) stay with Quixtar for so long?
August 11th, 2007 at 12:30 am
I applaud the action of Alticor and Quixtar. It is also great to see that there is some passion behind the corporate doors, not just corporate retorick (sp?).
I have seen several seminars by TEAM, and have family members also approached by people from TEAM (what the corp says about avoiding the name is an understatement). They were told about a business opportunity, never once mentioning Quixtar or anything. It wasn’t until they were handed an XS they knew what it was. They also said, “this is one our companies”. Fortunately, they were properly educated by myself and the correct relationship between XS and Quixtar.
It really is discouraging this kind of action is taking place. Great Job Alticor for taking a stand!!
August 11th, 2007 at 12:57 am
I would have to say that I will follow the TEAM at this point as it is the leadership training provided by TEAM that has changed my life, not the Amway content and commerce or the money made from being an IBO, b/c there hasn’t been any profit as of yet.
And as for this article… just because it a ‘blog’ doesn’t mean that it should be a forum for mud-slinging.
As for Josh’s remark of ‘avoiding the name’… Sure, change your name back to Amway and see how many sales and new customer registrations are generated. The combination of the Amway affiliation and the high prices have indeed made it difficult to grow my business.
Going to a million, w/o Quixtar.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:01 am
I have known Orrin personally for 7 years and I can honestly say he is the most honorable man I have ever met. He has led the charge for lower prices for sevearal years now in an attempt to assist all IBO’s in becoming more profitable. It is a simple proven concept… lower prices will lead to higher volume. IBO’s would have the ability to increase earnings through higher volumes. The company would increase earnings through higher volumes. Which would you rather have… 20% of a Billion or 5% of 50 Billion. Walmart operates at just under 3% on 289 Billion and the Walton’s aren’t hurting. Lower prices are trully a win win proposal.
I am ashamed that Quixtar would attempt to change the subject and attempt to ruin Orrin’s reputation by accusing him of stacking. Quixtar has been in approval of the “Team approach to Depth” for years now, To come out now and claim Team is doing something illegal with depth when 8 members of their own IBOAI board resign over pricing and an unfair non-compete clause is ridiculous. If you disagree with TEAM leadership over pricing and the non compete clause just admit it. Why did you terminate only the IBO’s who were named in the class action suit. Were they the only ones who were stacking? So many Team affiliated IBO’s have built their business the same way the “terminated IBO’s” have yet you have not terminated them and now you are now courting them. It makes no sense, At least be honest about the split. It has nothing to do with stacking and everything to do with pricing.
Orrin Woodward is a servant leader who is leading a charge for so many of us frustrated IBO’s who want nothing more than fair pricing and the ability to compete in the open market. Orrin was obviously willing to lose alot of money to stand up for what is fair and honest and support the IBO’s on his Team. Quixtar could take a lessons, If Quixtar would treat their IBO’s in the same fashion they wouldn’t be dealing with this problem today.
Think about this… Quixtar claims that Orrin Woodward, Billy Florence, Randy Haugen, Chris Brady, Tim Marks, Don Wilson and Chuck Goetschell were all unwilling to reform. These are all men of Character. When I think of whom to believe behind all this… I think about their character. I then read this blog and think something doesn’t fit. Quixtar is a company, These men are leaders of men. Nobody ever followed a company to war. Nobody follows a company anywhere. I will follow these couragous men of character wherever they lead… We are going to a million people and beyond!
August 11th, 2007 at 1:07 am
What goes around comes around. The story I have been told is that Rich and Jay were Nutrilite’s most successfull distributors. They did not not like how the company did things, so they started Amway. I have been told they brought on board their old Nutrilite downlines as new Amway distibutors. It worked out pretty well. Sounds like people with experience in the field knew more than the corporate folks back then too. Alticor needs to remember the example Rich and Jay set. Orrin & Chris know today what Rich and Jay knew then. Just call Orrin and Chris today’s Rich & Jay.
We are with ya.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:29 am
“Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could.
Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.”
—well, first off, you might as well kick us all out. we have all done that.
“We’d told Woodward we had problems with the way he ran his business for years, and we worked methodically to bring those problems to resolution. We got ignored, we got lied to, and, boy, we got the runaround.So in the end, yesterday, we tried to give him one last chance to reform.
He didn’t even want to hear his options. So we terminated him.”
—-sounds like the true story, but cleverly turned around so unsuspecting IBO’s would know nothing of the true incident…well, hear it is: for the longest time, woodward has had problems with the way you guys have run “your” business for years. He tried many times to bring about a solution to the problem but to no avail. He got ignored, lied to, and boy, he got the runaround. So in the end, the leaders of Team gave the quixtar business one last opportunity to correct it’s wrong doings to all IBO’s. You guys didn’t want to hear it, so we terminated you.
My one and only question is this.(well, actually two): whoever wrote this blog, were you even there or are you just writing what they told you to? and second…and the most important, is what kind of company would lie about one of the biggest events in the Quixtar history. Why in the world would you terminate more than 10 HUGE leaders in the Quixtar business all at once, without even thinking twice about the ramifications that it would have on your pocketbooks? Do you honestly think that we would stick around in a company that would just terminate our liveliehood in a second? What kind of “free” opportunity is that?
No! None of those questions you can answer because you didn’t terminate these leaders…they walked away from an opportunity that was filled with lies and deciet. This article is a perfect example. I can hear it all over the tone in this article, that you guys are very, very, sad to see us(Team and affiliate IBO’s) go. Or else why would all of this spite come through.
To all those who read this and think Alticor is on the right path…have you looked at your overpriced products lately? Ever wonder where that goes? Think it over.
“We would say we were sorry to see Orrin Woodward go. But only if that were true.”
—Nope, that’s not true, your right! But what you are sorry about is everyone else that is going with him. Good Luck, Quixtar, with your dying opportunity.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:31 am
I always try to see both sides of any situation, this one is very difficult. TEAM has been very effective at putting people in, I believe there #’s have surpassed the rest of Quixtars for growth in the last 6 or 7 years.
This isnt just about TEAM, it is about the IBOA board and the fact that they have attempted to stand up for all IBO’s, not just those that are TEAM affiliated.
I know I cannot be the only one who has noticed my PV going down on almost all of my purchases, not just my XS. It now costs me more to make the minimum recommended purchase for an IBO who is “building” a business. The extra $ must then go to “the Jay factor.”
Any corporation knows tht you make more $ selling 100 Widgets at .09, than selling 10 widgets at .15, but then we also do seem to be talking Corporation rather than IBO here. For years part of the IBO plan has included discussion about how in “Corporate America” once you get so high on a pay scale, the “Corporation” gets to looking for excuses to terminate you or cut your pension or profit share..
Well my question is, did TEAM get too profitable? BTW if there are that many leaders who have been terminated, where is their profit checks going????Hmmm… OK so if it is “Just GO TEAM” what would happen if any and all of us who were/are TEAM should boycott Quixtr for 30, 60 days? perhaps it would wake them up to just how much of an impact we have on their bottom line.
I was recently at a TEAM function where the overflow was close to 2000 people, there were I believe 4 other functions, so if only 50% of the active people attended, and there were 4 of them, my guess would be that there are a minimum of 100,000 IBO’s affiliated with TEAM or other organizations under some of these people who dared to speak there mind, or attempt to stand up for ALL IBO’s.
Quixtar has absolutly the best products out there and my wish is to stand behind them, but when people dare to question the profit stucture and attempt to make it a fair playing field are terminated, then I have to question the integrity of teh company.
I believe as Americans we are promised freedom of Speech, and due process of law. So when people who choose to have an issue adjudicated are terminated by a Corporation, I have to ask what happened to “The AMerican WAY”?
BTW I really dont think it would have hurt to poll the IBO’s about returning the AMWAY name to the company. I bet it would have been vetoed by those that truly matter, - the IBO’s themselves.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:45 am
I for one will not renew my business with Quixtar after building a successful Platinumship. The fact the Alticor has announced they are changing the Quixtar name to AMWAY has and will make a complete mokery of all IBOs who have attempted to build the business. Shame on Alticor and the families as they obiously do not care for what happens to our businesses…
August 11th, 2007 at 1:52 am
Very disappointed in Alticor’s response to Orrin, done very unprofessional, attacking another’s character, which shows your true colors of your self-serving and lack of concern for the people who are now in the trenches and giving people hope. Alticor and the Amway supporters, those who built the business many years ago, need to give their egos and power up to what is best for us out in the field. Nobody wants to be part or even hear the word Amway, why don’t you get it. You are further fortifying the positons of all the hate sites of Quixtar/Amway, perhaps there is some truth to them. The legacy of Amway will be its fall !!!
August 11th, 2007 at 1:56 am
To answer post #18
Both are liars AND both started a competing MLM that failed.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:56 am
I’m no fan of Orrin, so good riddance.
But I’d be a fan of you if you’d say you terminated Orrin because he was trying to take his TEAM (lots of IBOs) to another MLM. Since Bill Britt and Dexter Yager have been doing what Orrin did “wrong” (minus stacking, ship jumping) for years. I’m sure you’ve read postma memo in 1983?
I was in BWW from 2002-2003, lost 10K in endless trips to US hearing dream big, system is the key, buy for yourself etc.
You did come hard on BWW in amway. Nice. PLease look into Gala LOS as well. They told me it’s ok to sign up non-us citizens. Thank God I emailed Quixtar and they said no, it’s not ok.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:58 am
To answer #16.
No you are.
Next. :>
August 11th, 2007 at 2:10 am
…Wheels coming off the cart…
August 11th, 2007 at 2:17 am
Tracy is a hyopocrite. Here’s why:
She said to Alticor:
“The whole tenor of this posting is unprofessional and disgraceful.”
Then Tracy says to Pete (who is glad for what Alticor did)
“Pete, you’re retarded. What do you know”
I guess that’s what happens when you realize that you really don’t have much control over your business, when the actions of your “leaders” have such a devastating impact. I would recommend Tracy stops following blindly and learns to think for herself…
August 11th, 2007 at 2:52 am
WOW!!!
I’m proud to be associated with Alticor!
WE DONOT NEED SUCH ROBIN HOODS IN OUR SYSTEM!
we need people with integrity!!
Don’t worry abt whether Quixtar/Amway will be over or not - coz Amway will never be over until there’s ME(and others like me!)
We will show you how to build a honest business - We’ll show you how highly retailable our products are - We’ll show you how to be loyal to values(not personalities) - We’ll prove to you that Amway is the best corp there is - We surely will!!!!!!
“Men, men are wanted; everything else will be ready; but strong, vigorous, believing young men and women; a hundred such I can revolutionize the entire world” said Swami Vivekananda a hundred years ago and the same holds good even today!!!!!! I’m proud of Alticor!!
August 11th, 2007 at 3:10 am
I will follow chris and orrin to my grave, and I know thousands of others who will do so as well. good bye Quixtar
August 11th, 2007 at 3:16 am
It’s a sad day for everyone on both sides of the table when things like this happen. Ultimately both parties lose at least something long term. Some large ibos forget that the great responsibilty they hold is not only to lead a business, but to be real, and I do mean real examples to their organizations. It does not matter how big your pin, ego, or sphear of influence eventually gets. If your name is not De Vos or Van Andel, you don’t own the corporation you became affiliated with…. even Dexter Yager understands that. When they say no, they have a very good reason to say no. Many,many livelyhoods of ibos, employees and other associates in many countries around the globe hinge on the accuracy and timeliness of their decisions. We as ibos, when we signed our applications, agreed to follow the rules set forth. The corporation and founding families trust us to always try hard to follow the rules. That’s good business. That’s the heart of the agreement. That’s every ibos responsibility. Ibos have a large voice, but not the only voice. Rich and Jay said they never did anything that they were not in total agreement upon. I’m sure it’s that way with their children. It’s been that way since 1959. If you wouldn’t ask the company to fudge on something like paying sales taxes or corporate income taxes, so they could pay bigger bonuses to ibos, then why would you expect them to agree to something that could cause the FTC to come down on them. Therefore, the company has no choice but to enforce these rules so that all ibos have their opportunity to build large businesses safeguarded. In no way does that diminish the independence of each ibo. The founders of an honest and upright company that relied on your help to be profitable would never just walk up to you one day and say “you’re contract with us is terminated” without first trying everything they could to show you the things that were against the rules you agreed to follow, and give you ample opportunity to correct them. The rules were put there by the company and ibo board to try to keep the kind of things from happening that cause people on the outside looking in to use words like “scamway”. Of course, termination is always the last resort for any mutually beneficial relationship. Orrin and I shared the same Diamond upline, and I knew of him several years ago. I thought he was very nice personally, and a sincere businessman. Sad, Sad that inflated egos over time can cause leaders to not even be willing to consider proper correction from their leaders. We’re all mentored by someone, even if our only mentor, like the apostle Paul, is God Himself. It’s even worse that other older and more experienced leaders chose to follow the “flash in the pan”. I had to learn the hard way, that it’s never smart to sacrifice long term principles by bending the rules all the way to their limit for quicker financial gains. Although, I’m certainly not saying that Orrin or any leaders associated with him could be considered 100% bad. I’m sure that there were many good points in TEAM’s business practices as well. The only reason that some people even think that most of the money is in their “support” businesses, is that some leaders have decided that was where it was going to be for them, and they have every right to make that kind of decision. Except when it conflicts with the rules of the actual business. Remember, we’re independent business owners bound by contract to each other. Then, as a whole, to the corporation for mutual benefit of all parties involved.
All of that being said…. The fact that the Amway/Quixtar business has lasted as long as it has is a testament to the resolve and high standards of its founders and ibo Board, and the spirit of the business invisioned so many years ago by it’s very first distributors and the American Way Association. I’m reminded of something my upline diamond told me several years ago. He said, “This business’s worst day is still better than any other business’s best day.” The longer I’m involved in the regular old traditional business world with its many, many lawsuits, disagreements, hotheaded customers, and everyday stresses, the more I’m finding his statement to be absolutely true. I, speaking for myself, will always be proud to be associated with Amway/Quixtar. It doesn’t matter what difficult decisions have to be made in the future, or had to be made in the past. The corporation and the ibos have already made it through so many things that would have killed off most any other business, and yet it, and the ibos associated with it continue to grow all over the world…sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. After all, these guys are not the first ibos to be kicked out for not playing by the rules after being warned nicely…. nor will they be the last.
August 11th, 2007 at 3:18 am
I recently joined team and was happy. Personally there where things I did not liked. Two CDs a week seemed like too much for some people and $25 dollars for a seminar too. I will not follow them to the new MLM. I will stick with Quixtar. I never liked that thing about hiding the company we were doing bussines with. Also that thing about just having two legs. Now I keep asking myself hundreds of questions right now. What is going to happen to the www.teamespanol.com website? We will still be able to get our tools? What about the tools order Im about to receive and that has already been chaged to my credit card? What about the convention in Fresno in October? Is it going to happen? If not, would they send us our money back? I Dex would have been willing to share more of the tools business money, none of this would have happened.
August 11th, 2007 at 3:44 am
Understand that a “system” is an entity that maintains it’s existence through the mutual interactions of it’s parts. The system people affiliated with Quixtar undertake has 3 mutual parts that if acted upon correctly will produce a positive result. 1.Quixtar is primarily responsible for deliverly of product and payment(that is it),2. The founders and leaders of the organizations are responsible for a training system(you can train people in two ways directly and indirectly. The smartest way would be indirectly so each individual person doesn’t have to physically do it. That’s why the training materials exist and yes there have been some people who messed that part up. And also strategy and structure for building their teams. I know some people are against the whole “linear” structure of building straight down but if you take say six friends and put them on different teams, you have just turned six friends against each other because now they are competing against one another for the same people. I have personally built a business using both strategies and they both have their pros and cons. But what I have found through investigation is that take away the organization affiliated with the structure (TEAM, WWDB, Yeager, etc.) and you will find that to most people building the business in a vertical line vs staggard approach usually makes more sense to people once they see that they would have become competitors vs working in collaboration. 3. But it is the responsibility of each IBO to be trust worthy and teachable of the system and strategy that the founders have put forth along with Quixtar to distribute product and payment to it’s IBO’s. All that to say this, I don’t know and neither does anyone else for that matter who is at fault. Yes everyone has the right to their own opinion and over the years opinions have proven to carry weight but usually don’t carry substance with them. We live in the Information Age now and with all this garbage going around it doesn’t just affect Quixtar, and Team it affects everyone in the MLM industry. The ramifications of what has just happened won’t be seen for some time. But one thing is for sure all the bad mouthing doesn’t help anyone and just hurts everyone. In the past it doesn’t matter if someone did something perfectly right or perfectly wrong. Because when people start gossip and rumors start flying everyone gets painted with the same brush. How many times have you tried to explain what it is you do and you get the usual resonse,”I know what this is or I’ve heard about that”. No wonder Orrin doesn’t want to mention Quixtar because some people somewhere got hurt and ran their mouth or typed some crap on the Internet and people run off and read it and think the person who wants to help is out to get them. Who would want to be affiliated with that. But is it Quixtar’s fault for some of the bad mouthing? Yes and No because regardless who you are the the prices are high but the value is to. But if you are going to build a business where the demographic is wide (young to old and where the majority is on a budget) it’s smart to keep the prices competive and low in all areas. The XS and Protein bar line are perfectly priced and realitivy easy to move but other stuff isn’t. Who’s to say they are over priced, in my experience just the public as a whole. But remember they are primarily responsible for product and payment and I have never heard of a situation where someone didn’t get a product or a refund or a commision check. So in that regard they are doing a fine job. But yes some people have screwed up by making dumb decisions and everyone in the industry gets painted with the evil brush. And then everyone is wasting time trying to defend their own position because someone, somewhere, whom they never met, have no affiliation with did something stupid. So before we all go and take sides just think about the other people out there in the world who have never heard of this type of business or don’t fully understand it. Because after all the business is invisible so to see it you have to get a picture of it with your mind through information and if the information is negative their perception of this type of business will be negative all because we have to protect our egos and start bashing one another. It doesn’t matter who’s right, but what does matter is are we going to do the right thing regarding this situation? We have just witnessed 9/11 within this industry and this time it’s ramifications directly affect the MLM industry. Those names listed above aren’t just IBO’s or just Diamonds. They are industry movers and shakers and have paved the way over the the years to make this industry better and better. I bet money they don’t just put their tales between their lege and run. Some have even won awards for how creative and inventful they were. All I know is that this is HUGE and we will all have to wait and see where this leads. But please for others sake lets watch what we say becasue other lives are at stake not just our own. My challenge to Quixtar, TEAM members, and anyone else who wants to just finger point “MAN UP” and “SHUT UP” with all the informational garbage. Maybe Quixtar was at fault maybe TEAM was at fault. One thing is for sure who ever spreads gossip and crap from here on out will be at fault for putting gas on an already out of control blaze. So try to be a solution not a problem.
August 11th, 2007 at 4:00 am
[…] FROM QUIXTAR/ALTICOR AKA THE CORPORATION FORMALLY KNOWN AS AMWAY: Here is the Amway/Quixtar/Alticor response to TEAM leaders leaving/being terminated via the “Alticor Media Blog” - the official news weblog from the Alticor family of […]
August 11th, 2007 at 4:45 am
It’s very interesting to me that Alticor didn’t make it known what the “trash-talking” lawsuit was about. The suit asks Quixtar to either lower the prices on its products, making it easier for IBO’s to be able to sell their products to actual retail customers, or to come up with new product lines that will be able to be sold to retail customers at a reasonable price. The lawsuit is a very interesting read, stating that The Team is not seeking any money, but rather looking to force Quixtar to lower product prices enabling the IBO to develop bigger businesses as more consumers would purchase products. Somehow, I don’t think Orrin Woodward and The Team are the ones to be blaming for this…
And another interesting fact is that those members that were so called “terminated” by Alticor, actually resigned from their positions on the IBOAI. Thanks for telling the truth Alticor. Keep up the good work on limiting the potential of our businesses so we can line the pockets of the Van Andels and DeVoss’s
Here’s a link to the lawsuit, if anyone’s interested in a good read http://team_orrin_woodward.typepad.com/orrin_woodward/files/Complaint.pdf
August 11th, 2007 at 6:38 am
Tracy said on August 10th: And when we started consuming XS and the Trim Vantage product lines, you dropped the PV on them….now who has integrity issues?!? You guys just can’t pad your pockets enough huh?
Response: The PV/BV ratio is adjusted to keep up with inflation, so our bonus checks go up. The ratio (now at 2.9 from 2.8 in the States)changes by either decreasing the PV or by increasing the BV. If you increase the BV, then you also increase the cost/retail prices. So the Corp could have kept XS at 7.28 PV for a 12-pack (rather than decreasing it to 7.03). But this would mean that you would be paying $21.11/cost and $24.82/retail for that 12-pack (rather than $20.40 and $23.99). The Corp’s desire was to keep the product cost-competitive rather than having an over-priced unsellable product.
August 11th, 2007 at 9:01 am
I can understand your discouragement Alticor, although you seem to be missing the big picture. Giving people the means to attain financial freedom is a big deal, and your decision to fight and make it dirty will only tarnish your reputation. That’s too bad because you cannot stop an idea (or a huge community) whose time has come. Play nice and you can enjoy some fair competition in this journey, or continue to bankroll your pockets and see where that gets you long term. I know where my bets lay.
August 11th, 2007 at 10:26 am
All of you who want to leave can leave!
All of you who think that the products are costly can stop buying them!
All of you who think Alticor has been unjust can think so!
It’s not just India that’s a free country - I guess America too is one!
But I have my faith in Alticor - It’s Alticor that gave me the oppurtunity - All the others are ‘mere’ support systems!
And I’ll tell you this - even if all of you quit - and if it’s only me left in Alticor, I’ll still build it!and I’ll build it big!!!
I’m selling the products,I’m showing the plan - I start by telling them that I have come to show them the Amway business! I’ll see to it that every alternate home on this planet will use Amway products!! If you donot believe in something it’s best you stop doing it!
But I believe in Amway!!And there are many many others like me!
It’s a big corporation and all the decisions they take are based on their interests!
That’s a simple fact!!
I saw the plan and I got sponsored - coz I felt it would give me more choices!
I never wanted to tell them whether they should reduce their prices or not!
That’s their corporate issue!
If I’m not happy I have the choice to quit!!
I know the rules, I know the guidelines and it’s upto me to stick to those - who am I to ask Alticor to do as I say?
Yes, I’ll surely ask them if they did not give me what they said they would.
It’s a fair game!
My sponsor told me all this - I too went thru the rules!
“He who builds according to every man’s advice will have a crooked house …”
August 11th, 2007 at 11:00 am
“hey Alticor, your statement is mean”….give me a break!
Grow up and make a decision…this is Alticor’s business and they set the rules. If you can play by their rules, then go to work and build it big. If you can’t then go away and do something new. I am sick and tired of having to defend the crap on on internet because of people who are to lazy learn how to “sell” the product line. (and yes it is called “selling” not order taking.
Go Alticor, and don’t stop until you have cleaned house!
Mike.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:01 am
That response was fantastic!!! Thank GOD we responded with a strong voice it sounded like it was written by the great Rich Devos himself.Any IBO on here that thinks any different need to get out now.This company is going to thrive without the poison and their tool scam.The true and honest IBO’s will build this business the way it was meant to be built.WE LOVE YOU RICH GO GET ‘EM
August 11th, 2007 at 11:05 am
I don’t fault Orrin or Chris for wanting to start their own MLM. This is America and I wish them good luck. I do have a problem with them thinking Quixtar should release thier organization to them. Look at this professionally please. You cannot say Quixtars product prices are too high and therefore you cannot retail them. This is the reason you say Quixtar is an Illegal Pyramid? C’mon please. Our entire organization is told they need to sell product to get a bonus for their downline. Prices are very competitive with other products that are of the same quality.
Just go quietly and those that want to quit have every right. Just follow the rules and wait 6 months to joint Orrin and Chris.
Let our performance in the field prove who is right. Your lower priced product business vs. our high quality priced business of 48 years.
Lets see who can legally help families achieve their dreams.
Game on…GO!
Good luck Team. Bye.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:07 am
After having been formerly in the TEAM for several years, I still am amazed at the blind adoration for Orrin Woodward. However, I do understand, as it took me some time to “get it.” What I get is that Orrin Woodward now seems to believe his own press! Ask yourself this; which has more retail value, a box of soap, or endless CD’s about the same thing? When I left the TEAM (best decision I ever made) I sold all my “tools” which I had paid over $3,000.00 for at the measley price of $78.00, including my white board, which I actually donated to a Sunday School Class! Orrin and Chris are very smart; smart in how to suck you in, and then dump you when you aren’t pumping dollars into their system. I could say more, but I will save it for a day not far off in the future!
The above is my opinion.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:08 am
The tenor of this blog has me completely sideswiped. I feel like I’ve been sucker-punched. We joined Amway in Germany in 1999 and found the company to be full of pride, integrity, and character. Where did that go? How can a company write such a statement and put it on an official blog referenced to in an official press release. I feel betrayed that they would speak in such a way regardless of what their ‘offenders’ may have done. We’re not in Kansas anymore.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:17 am
After seeing the email from Quixtar in my Inbox yesterday morning, I called the Corporation, and talked with Norma in Conduct and Rules; she was wonderful! I was finally able to vent about things I had seen, things I had happen to me, and things that had been deliberately done to me, in an attempt to shut me up over the last few years! Norma in rules appalled at what I was telling her; which I can back up with proof. Anyone who realized what some people on TEAM were really up to, and tried to help people they cared about to get out by simply pointing out some actual facts were treated like lepers, ostracized, shunned, and had bad things spread about them, and then some.
This is my opinion.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:57 am
Some of the above comments are LONG. Can’t you get your ideas across with less words?
I can’t wait for the court case, because all of the higher pin ex-IBO’s have made a LOT more money on overpriced tools than the overpriced Quixtar products. I look forward to how the former IBO’s address this issue.
Good riddance, TEAM. Don’t let the door hit your backside on the way out.
August 11th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
It’s good to stir up debate like this, but Team isn’t out to fight Amyway (we might as well call it what it is. The names quixtar and alticor are going away). Team wants to be able to do their own thing. It’s evolution people. If you have “allegiances” to Amway, that’s fine, but bottom line is, Amway is a business, and is in it for money. Team wanted more freedom than was allowed, therefore asked to split amicably. For Amway, that’s a big BUSINESS LOSS. Don’t you think they would fight it? We have entirely different schools of thinking here, and it’s a lot bigger than just Orrin Woodward. 8 members of the IBOAI board resigned. EIGHT. Why? Because there is a better way. Be thankful for free enterprise people and good luck.
August 11th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
This “blog” is unprofessional at best. At worst, it’s complete trash.
Does anyone know why it’s Orrin Woodward being called out by Alticor? It’s because Woodward is the guy that’s been banging down their doors trying to change the way things have been run.
I am NOT a TEAM member. I am no longer an IBO. I’m 27 and used to be affiliated with TEAM when it was a part of the BSM’s distributed by Don Wilson’s group. My parents were also in the old Amway business.
Having seen both sides, I can say with 100 percent confidence that TEAM did the right thing standing up for their organization. For years, my biggest complaint about Quixtar/Amway was that it was underhanded. They weren’t up front about a lot of things - including how tools were distributed, who profited off them and how much, how the pay structure REALLY worked, etc. Those are just a few issues but I felt were extremely important and yet Quixtar refused to change their methods.
You want to call out Woodward for lying to new IBO’s? What would you call it when you quote a likely income to a new IBO when they reach a certain level, yet fail to tell them that 66 percent of that income actually comes from tools and not the plan itself?
TEAM probably is being hypocrites about certain things - ironically enough, standing up for Quixtar all those years and now having to expose it for what it really is. That said, it’s really QUIXTAR that refuses to adapt to new concepts. But instead, Alticor is choosing propaganda to tarnish the reputation of TEAM and specifically, Woodward. That’s classic.
August 11th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
I’ve noticed one reoccurring theme throughout these replies: Hardly anyone actually read the complaint that was filed by TEAM. Don’t post any more ridiculous comments if you don’t know what you’re posting about. The complaint is detailed and thorough in pointing out the wrongdoings in Alticor’s business. READ THE COMPLAINT, THEN POST!
Quixtar will not survive this.
TEAM already has the infrastructure set up to compete.
TEAM has been dominating in Quixtar’s business for over 5 years (look at the stats)
TEAM will prevail in this!
August 11th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
Does anyone even realize what Woodward is saying…His team tried to recruit me by saying: “own your own business and buy from yourself, then teach other to do the same” This was HIS system teaching – NOT Quixtar’s/Alticor – “HIS system” – you know, the one that is “full proof” if you follow it faithfully.
Now he is saying that Quixtar/Alticor is the illegal pyramid. Quixtar/Alticor didn’t create Woodward’s System. Quixtar/Alticor tells you to retail, Woodward’s System tells you to self consume and teach others to do the same. Quixtar/Alticor doesn’t put on his functions that teaches this over and over and over again.
Woodward has made Millions by what he now calls over-priced merchandize, but yet he knew this - and still kept bringing others into what he NOW admits he knew his own company was operating as an illegal pyramid. Come on people, can he really be serious about this law suit. It is really laughable to me.
Now, let’s put blame where it needs to be… Quixtar/Alticor allowed many of these systems to operate like this knowingly for WAY to long - that Blame is on them. Shame on Quixtar/Alticor for that…however, at least I must say they are finally stepping up to the plate to try and correct this. When they do, this now forces Woodward to stop promoting a “System” that encourages its IBO’s to operate as an illegal pyramid (self consume and teach others) and Woodward now wants to sue Quixtar/Alticor on the basis that it is an illegal pyramid. Come on, does anyone else see how ridiculous this is sounding???
One more thing…if Woodward knew and warned Quixtar/Alticor that it’s prices were to high then his integrity should caused him to warn his down line about the situation. Did anyone ever hear out of anyone’s mouth at any function that Quixtar WASN”T the best opportunity in the world – NO, he sold it whole heartedly to everyone that it was the best products for the price. So, his integrity is in horrible question in my opinion, as he led thousands of people into a business that even he himself thought was illegal and impossible to be successful with because of the high prices.
Woodward and Team members – WAKE UP! Put the logic together, smell the coffee brewing in your own kitchen and put blame where it is truly due. Turn off that coffee pot; go to Starbuck’s for a fresh cup for a new perspective on things. Good luck to all that is locked up in this mess. May God help all of you to see through this fog and find out where your loyalty should lie. Only each of you individually can make that decision.
God Bless.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
What’s done is done. TEAM WILL move on to BIGGER & (as I clearly see it now, due to this “blog”) Better things. There are many unprofessional statements and emotions involved with this blog. Although “Quixtar” provides near second-to-none products, it appears there is pride, greed, and lack of professionalism at the top of Alitcor. This kind of business will not survive on product alone, Business and a Community are the KEYS.
I agree with the statements about Christian values and the apparent lack of these values within this whole process of events. We are here to help others SUCCEED, not wallow in our pride of “who’s write and whos’ wrong, Do It MY WAY or HIT the HIGHWAY” thinking. It takes a community to create a successful Internet Business! It appears Alticor is not very interested in what is best for it’s Community.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
I am a 16 year frustrated IBO who has been a platinum for 9 years. I have never had a month where I have showed the approved marketing plan less than 10 times per month. My business has started each year with an average of 130 Ibo’s and ended with an average of around 170. Each year with the drop out rate bringing my business back to the year before. I merged with TEAM in the past year and under their building concepts I have finally found a better way to grow my business.
I had to resort to the Quixtar’s company tactics in order to grow. When a prospect calls Quixtar for a business opportunity or more information they refer them to a Diamond in their area. I figured I should do the same thing when a person I meet wants to learn more about my business I should refer them to the person I am working with in depth. For some reason when I do this the Quixtar company calls this STACKING?
Did you confront the board before you decided to change the Quixtar business into the Amway business? Did you confront the board about changing the registration procedures? Do you think IBO’s across the country are going to trust you when you take all these matters in you own hands?
I just reviewed the 08 incentives and realized the combined bonuses sacrificed by the IBOA board members you just terminated would reach well into the 7 figure mark. I know from my 24 years of service that one thing is the TRUTH. People will not sacrifice their lives for money, but they will for a CAUSE. I believe that the board members you expelled have giving much for our cause then you will ever understand. I would rather be in the battle with someone willing to go before me, than send me before them. You have to be in the living rooms across our great land in order to gain the respect you seek. You are throwing stones while your house is made of glass.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
I just have to say that no matter what your opinion realize that building an Amway/Quixtar business is going to get a lot tougher. If you haven’t read the 47-page legal complaint I encourage you to do so. After reading it I realized that the FTC will without a doubt be investigating the corporation. You will hear about this on the news and people will be hesitant about joining.
I also want to ask everyone out there that says the products are easy to retail, what products are you retailing and how much a month. Excluding XS products, bars and gift albums what are you retailing? I have retailed Double X and SA8 in the past but I have never been able to keep those customers long term because they end up saying they weren’t seeing a major difference to justify the price they had to pay.
I believe the drinks, bars and gift albums are easier to retail but that is exactly what Team is complaining about. Those products are priced better for retailing than others.
I also have a hard time digesting everything the corporation is saying because of some of the people involved. Chuck Geotshel and Fred Harteis both only recently teamed up with Team (within the past year or less). These two guys have large groups which they tossed away just because Orrin said so…I don’t see it, just not logical in any sense. The Team diamonds and those that have been associated for several years I can see being loyal and standing behind Orrin BUT the others that are newly affiliated doesn’t make sense.
August 11th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
This is a very large array of comments, I am a little suprised by the negative media that everyone is vomitting. I am guessing that everyone in this forum is pursuing business ventures in one way shape or form. All of us no matter what our affiliation are trying to make a positive impact on society for our family, community, and friends sake. My wife and I have truly been touched by the people that our involved in many different organizations that drive traffic to quixtar. We wish all of you the best of luck and if I see anyone on the street wearing a xs hat I will cheer you on. As for the team and the leadership of the team we have chosen to part ways and we wish everyone and strong and profitable business.
In closing all of us our humans and have emotions and don’t always say or do the right things. I know one thing thou Orrin’s heart is in the right place even if you don’t agree with him or me. Joe thanks for your positive comments and iron sharpens iron we will see you at the top.
Dream , Struggle, Victory
August 11th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Hey guys, if orrin had character; he would not have been voilating rules as he did. There may be alot of goods folks in Team, but if you are stacking, putting people under other folks, the sponsor never showed the plan to that person, never new that person before in there life… You are un-ethical and a part of a system that is doing things wrong. In milwaukee my ibo went to a meeting where they said things like stacking, can’t sponsor a 2nd leg until 4 month, using a Brit World Wide Diamonds Sem/Rally trng CDS burned onto another disk. They probabley did not have permission to do that and that is stealing. Those CDS cost money. The IBO called up his upline to ask what was going on with the business and said “how does this thing work?” The upline said what do you mean, I sponsored five people under you. Got an email from his upline telling him who his sponsor was and saying you will meet him at the meeting. When asked about the legality of that, the upline stated “we found a loop hole!” Give me a break! other new ibo’s were asked “who is your sponsor, they would say, I don’t know!” if your apart of team and did any of those things; your performing illigal practices (in the eyes of the government). change organizations! For those of you doing this crap and you have been in the business for over ten months, you knew what you were doing.
August 11th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
One other thing. Most of these comments on the forum don’t discuss the risk involved in what the leadership of the TEAM did. They put all monitary volume a side, and said enough is enough. All of our leaders have nothing to gain and everything to lose(monitarily). I am proud to be a part of the TEAM and look forward to leading the charge to a million people. We will see you on the battlefield.
Good Luck in all your endeavors
August 11th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
As an IBO that signed up to TEAM, I want to say that the main reason I initially signed up was just to get my brother-in-law off my back. I actually went to a couple of “seminars” (which you have to pay to go to) and what struck me the most was how much of a dog and pony show it was. All the men dress EXACTLY the same (white shirt, same color tie and dark pants) it was spooky. The only thing they were missing was the kool-aid for everyone to drink.
Sorry Team, but your practices are based on deception, and border on brainwashing. If you decide to follow Woodward and the others, make sure you let us know how the accommodations are in prison.
August 11th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Responce to Mike. If the corp. can stack under IBO’s of their choice, Why can’t we?
August 11th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
I get a kick out of comment 48. Tex complaining about long posts…
August 11th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
I am aprehensive to write here, but feel I must. The information being put forth by Amway/Quixtar is misleading and wrong. Orrin Woodward and the Team have been the fastest growing organization affiliated with Quixtar for the last 6 or more years. The IBOs who have been “terminated” (the actually resigned from the IBOAI board first) are only the specific IBOs named as plaintiffs in a class action lawsuit brought agains Quixtar because their pricing is so out of line. For Quixtar to edify and support the way Orrin and the Team have built their business for so long and then only now terminate only specific IBOs doesn’t make any sense with why they say they are terminating them. There are thousands of other IBOs who have built their businesses the same way as Orrin and the others who have been terminated, but Quixtar didn’t terminate them. I highly recommend anybody that is thinking Quixtar is right in this situation read the legal filings by Orrin and the others. You will find the truth there. Orrin and the Team are not looking for monetary compensation. They are just looking for a wrong to be righted.
Orrin is showing true leadership in his sacrifice of himself in front of his team while Quixtar has shown the opposite in slapping the faces of every IBO on the Team by writing this blog.
The TEAM is going to a Million and beyond!!
August 11th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Very interesting posts folks. I recently attended a TEAM open meeting as our LOS only recently affiliated with TEAM. I was amazed to hear the speaker affirm that Orrin and Chris had invented the Quixtar website themselves after hearing Michael Dell speak in Detroit. Amazing. Not telling them they were signing up with Quixtar - that is the truth.
This post from Alticor is not directed at the IBOs affiliated. Chris and Orrin taught a system that was non-compliant with the Rules. As a long-time IBO I would caution anyone - do not follow your upline blindly. You are adults, many of you are business people already. You are an INDEPENDENT BUSINESS OWNER. Start acting like one. I am glad this came out - as I have been observing the TEAM’s methods and checking it out before jumping in wholeheartedly. I am sure glad I did.
Despite whatever my LOS decides to do, I am not hitching my wagon to these guys. See Passport, see TeaminFocus and all the others that left to start their own MLM. Why trash Quixtar’s pricing? Because you plan on being a competitor. And they will fail, just as all the others have, unfortunately. Why start your own MLM? Because they want to sqeeze more money out the the IBOs.
Have you heard Orrin & Chris’s mission? 1 Million IBOs? They are in it to move tools - and they have positioned themselves as such. So with a new MLM they will still support their lifestyle. Why do you think that NONE of their tools have the Content Reviewed approval from Quixtar on it? Hmm?
To the TEAM IBOs - do your homework, engage your brain. Don’t be a drone. Watch - Quixtar will reach out to assist and support you in your INDEPENDENT business - they are just saying So long to your TEAM “leaders”.
Stay Smart
August 11th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
What do you expect when you work with a company that you have signed agreements with and then you violate the written rules and the spirit of the rules. Then you lie and poison the well for others? Clearly the behaviour is so ingrained that someone actually wrote that they had to “fudge” client reporting to get their bonus. One of the conerstone differentiators that AMWAY had to install to keep this a LEGAL business for all of us, and you think that it makes sense to “fudge”? And makes your approach the viable duplicatable and ethical one? I sincerely hope that TEAM members that want to build this business find their way to great lines of sponsorship!
August 11th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Those people threatened my business along with everyone else in this business.My hope is that the terminations don’t stop with TEAM but continue with any other orginazation that threatens the future of this great business.Any moron that says are products are overpriced should have their head examined and obviously doesn’t understand 3rd grade math.For one thing for about $8.00 you can literally have gallons of L.O.C i won’t go on with other examples because people who say that the products are priced to high are just trying to find a excuse to not build a business.
August 11th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
actually after taking time and I do mean time to read number 61 and the lawsuit I can kindof can see the point behind the resignations. I do agree that they wouldn’t be walking away with the potential of losing it all if they weren’t doing it for a cause they believed in especially with there being so many different organizations joining together. I think for all our sakes our leaders need to meet without the corporation and try to sort this out since we have all been told “it is your own business”
August 11th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Terri: your comment was heartfelt, and we’d like to post it; however, the comment was far too long for us to post. If you could provide us with a shorter version, if that’s okay with you, we’d be happy to post it here. Please note that we do not wish to censor you; rather, we need to watch the length of these comments.
Everybody else: thank you for the feedback, and keep it coming.
August 11th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
I am a diamond’s daughter- one in this well over 30 years. They love this company and truly believe even on this day that the STRUCTURE of this business works and is honorable. They were never a part of TEAM. They invested into the system but they also retailed so they could pay for their investment. The core products were the foundation of this business and even though the factor of 3 was there at the beginning, the original founders cared enough about the people that there was very high PV/BV on the coreline products so there was room for markup.HOWEVER, a new generation took over and maybe in the beginning they wanted to be like their dad’s, but over time GREED entered.. Pv/bv lowered on the core line and eventually there was less of a core line- now you were paying more and there was less incentive to retail the line.You wonder why many on the IBO board left- it is not because men who have been with the company (some over 3o years) just got star struck with Orrin, heck there are diamonds across the country right now who are resigning because what was stated in that lawsuit was exactly what has been stated privately between other leaders and also to the corporation for years. Please do not be fooled by the fact that the corporation is saying that it was because of keeping the name Quixtar quiet or because of stacking because THE CORPORATION approved the concept as long as the last person sponsored would know the person who sponsored him. The CORPORATION produced literature for TEAM to explain the stacking idea and what the people would make. If stacking was the issue then why was Orrin not let go years ago- why would the CORPORATION have produced the literature to explain the concept? and if it was about keeping a name quiet then ,dear God, how many across this country should be kicked out who have nothing to do with Orrin? There are many diamonds who have integrity and honor who are seeing something is clearly wrong with the pricing structure.These are who you would NEVER have thought they would ever even consider leaving a company they have invested their lives in. People who have tried to do the right thing for a very long time- people who have been loyal despite what they have seen taking place. These are people who were voted onto the IBO board because people believed in them, believed they wanted the best for the IBO’s not just the interests of the family. They have tried to stay faithful, tried to believe the best of the current owners. In that room during the IBO board meeting there was not firings going on, there was alot of resigning going on. And there have not been a lot of terminating of businesses going on in the past 24 hours- there has been alot of prayerful decisions being made by people whose entire lives have been invested in this business and those under them. Those who have made a decision (despite what it may cost them) to do what is right. To say ENOUGH! These are not just TEAM players, these are leaders across organizations who want the best for their groups. They want to see growth and success. Many who have believed in the system from the very concept and still do believe in it- who have been loyal and faithful to the business and the people who now are alligning and saying ENOUGH! Do you think after this many years of investing themselves into the business and the people they have grown to love that they would not say “Enough” without a very good reason? Why in one day would the trust you have held for these leaders and the friendships you have held with them change because a corporation says they are essentially evil? And you DIAMONDs and above who have know many of these men, known their integrity even though you weren’t part of their particular business-DON’T WRITE THEM OFF. How about for once in your lives actually call a meeting of the leaders across the business and reveal your hearts instead of keeping yourselves quiet because God forbid you crossline. Maybe for once you all need to look at the same page and see if there is truth in this complaint - begin to look at the people under you and why you built this in the first place.
August 11th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
Terri: Thank you.
Everybody else: From this point forward, aim for 2-3 paragraphs if you can. We know some will go over while others will be much shorter, but we do appreciate your cooperation.
August 11th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Greg,
I’ve been going to TEAM open meetings for 4 years and never once have I heard the Orrin and Chris invented the quixtar website. If that’s what you heard, I’m sorry but that’s not how the TEAM’S plan goes.
August 11th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
dear administrator- sorry… I attempted to save it MUCH shorter but when I pressed send it ended up saving the first. Sorry, I did try to save it shorter.
August 11th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Thank you Terri. Through this whole process my main concern has been when we signed up under AmWay were were told that the difference between this and any other MLM was that it was controlled by the Board (IBOAI) who were IBOs just like us. That they were there to not only help their business, but wouldn’t do anything to harm our business. I trusted this and now see that this was true, the IBOAI RESIGNED for my business and the integrity of what I have been telling others in my downline. Thank you for standing up for what I believed in all along. You were there for my business.
August 11th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
I like how it says… “Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.” thats funny considering that at the top right hand corner of this page there is a link that says
“Get Rich-Quick”
August 11th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
QUIXTAR has no system, QUIXTAR has never given me advice on dealing with people, money, health, marraige,family, wealth managment,goal setting, life planning, and a myriad of many other things that my association with TEAM has. Number don’t lie, TEAM builds the person, the person builds the business, QUIXTAR groups outside of TEAM are dying off, the old gaurd is falling, QUIXTAR has made a very unproffitable and unwise decision. As the old saying Goes,” Men of integrity expect to be believed, when they are not, they let time Prove them right. ” Time will vindicate TEAM leadership, and i will stand with them until, and when it does, as should everyone else. TEAM is built around just that, a team, not a “yauger” or “britt” stage, but around the equal oppurtunity for all of it’s players, the future is BRIGHT , JUST GO TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 11th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
If you believe what “Q” has to say I feel very sorry for you. SEE for yourself check out the copy of the “TEAM’S” lawsuit then make an INTELLIGENT decision . its all about whats best for us IBO’S . THE TEAM ROCKS!!!!!!!!!http://team_orrin_woodward.typepad.com/orrin_woodward/2007/08/index.html#entry-37568460
August 11th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
Unfortunately the very same reasons that Quiztar talks about in regards, exist in BWW too! I’m from India and it is highly recommended by leaders not to introduce the name of Amway untill the lag end of the presentation, and that too only once. And yes, even here Amway is talked about as a Supply corporation. Infact in a double diamond Kumar Sivaramakrishnan’s tape, he categorically says that Quixtar is just another supply partner, like many others! I decided to quit the business after realising many other gross irregularities in the business and especially the systems! I wish Quixtar did the same to all the other systems too. it would be some good riddance for sure!
August 11th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
I’ve been with Team for four years. I love everything about the business system and our leaders, despite the high prices of the shopping portal we’ve used. A high majority of people have joined our business and quit because of the high-priced products. Furthermore, I’ve personally signed up over 20 customers and they have never purchased a single product. Something had to change, regardless of whether change is comfortable. Orrin and Billy and others asked for changes for years - to please just drop these prices. Quixtar wouldn’t budge. These guys are true heroes of the people they lead with humble, servant leadership. They could lead an extremely comfortable life with what they have, yet they choose to work and build bridges for their people! Amazing!
Yes, Quixtar, please just let the Team go peacefully. Let the IBO’s choose who they want to follow and just be graceful about it. Give them a reason to have less doubts about returning should things not go well in their endeavors. You might be pleasantly surprised that some will stay and be faithful purchasers of some of your fine products even though most of the prices are quite unreasonable. Please drop the non-compete clause and end the slinging of mud. Thanks for listening.
August 11th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
The posting by the Corp was one of the most ugly, unprofessional things I’ve read in a long time. It really makes one wonder exactly -who- is are the bad guys here? It’s curious that the Corp still hasn’t addressed the points Team leaders made in their lawsuit, namely that it’s almost impossible to retail most of their products considering the prices they charge at wholesale. Shame on you.
August 11th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
What seems really odd to me is that when Bo Short and so many others Diamonds that have already resigned in the past years — and there are many —they resigned for these very same reasons as Orrin is claiming to now! YET - Orrin and Company raked them over the coals for bad mouthing the company all the while knowing Bo Short was right. WOW ! What lack of integrity there is in this business. After knowing this how in your right mind can you claim the Leader’s of Team are upright and honest men.
I have found that when people have to announce to everyone that they are so Christian and we are so honest and have so much integrity — that, well, —it is usually to cover up that they are lacking all such qualities they claim so desperately to have.
I will say this…if Alticor doesn’t correct all the other System’s/AMO or terminate all other IBO ships that are doing the same as Orrin…and we know they are all doing the same thing just about. Then Alticor is revealing the cards in their hands…and the hand is not a good one.
Alticor you have to clean it all up or we will know you are just playing a game to save your backside.
August 11th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
I for one will make sure that I go into my settings on the Quixtar (soon to be Amway site) and take my “Auto Renew” checkmark off. In the event I need to evaluate my situation, I wouldn’t want to forget about that.
Love ya all!
August 11th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
I am confused as to how Orrin, Chris, Tim and others can say that the products are unmarketable, overpriced and the business is not viable after they have made millions from people buying these same products. I have been involved with another direct selling cosmetic company. I can say that Artistry is very much competitively priced. We have done our homework on SA8 with Tide, Cheer and others. It is competitively priced. I believe Quixtar’s food items are overpriced so I don’t buy them. Ultimately if you want quality products your going to have to pay a little more. For us it is more convenience than to make a quick buck.
We have been to seminars in which the products were promoted by Orrin, Laurie, Chris, Terri, Tim, Amy and many other “leaders”. Now they have changed their stance which to me shows a lack of integrity. They promoted a DOT 1 STEP program in which you were to have certain core products on a Ditto order that processed on the first of the month. Never mind if it fit in your budget to have it on the first or if you wanted or liked these products. You were to do it in order to attend special meetings. We never attended these “special meetings” as we were not into mind control. I don’t like people telling me when to order or what I should order.
TEAM members need to make up their own minds and not be led like sheep by Orrin and his band. He is not a god. He is a man with a lot of money and an over inflated ego that has a lot of stuff. The biggest thing that I seen being taught was materialism. Not exactly a Christian principle. There were a lot of problems we seen with the TEAM and our membership with them went inactive a couple of years ago. Thank goodness we stopped lining his pockets.
August 11th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
I have just been reading the postings here and figured I would add my two cents.
1. In the regular world, if you are a lawyer and leave a firm and ‘poach’ clients from that firm to start your own, it is concidered improper or maybe even illegal.
2. If someone calls Qixtar about becoming an IBO, they will refer them to someone in their area. They don’t sign them up under that person, just refer. It is up to that person to talk to that person and sponsor them.
3. I work my normal job in a retail store. They will not keep you on if you get a second job in another retail store that sells similar items as it is a conflict of interest. If it is in a company that is not in direct competition with them there is no problem. That is normal.
4. If I didn’t like the way the owners of the store I work in ran things and tried to tell them they needed to change things to the way I wanted, they would show me the door.
It seems to me that too many people are trying to justify the way the TEAM and others are acting and conducting business. Justifying anything that is wrong, illegal or immoral doesn’t make a thing right.
Quixtar has said they are making improvements to the business over the next 2 years. I say hold your critisim and see what they do. If you don’t like it then you can leave.
I read the lawsuit and they kept saying that Alticor was forcing people to buy things they could not sell and not let them leave the business when they wanted to. Last time I checked, Alticor wasn’t sending ‘hit men’ out to keep the IBO’s in line.
August 11th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
Wow. I must say that the decision of Team to remove themselves from association with Quixtar/Alticor is seeming better and better. While Team has kept its members informed with well thought out and professional information, Quixtar/Alticor has sent out information that seems bitter and hurtful. I especially like the fear-mongering techniques. From the e-mail I received letting me know how much they love and appreciate me, “And, we should note that no IBO has left Amway or Quixtar and successfully launched a competing business.”
I realize there are two sides to every story and each side will tell that story in the manner that is most benefitial to them, but when one side is quoting facts and the other is coming off like a schoolyard bully and using fear its not hard to pick sides.
And for everyone that believes that the Team lawsuit is trumped up and done in spite, I invite you to read it. And then to make your own decision. I believe you will find, especially those of us that have been around a while that the claims made are in fact true.
For those that don’t have the time or desire to read through the document, all the Plaintifs are asking for is that the non-compete and anti-raiding clauses be deemed non-lawful and dropped. In simple terms, let people who choose to leave Quixtar/Alticor leave, and let them pursue income in another venture. Just Go Team? We’re trying.
Another good read would be of the contract you have signed (including the changes they have made over the past few years) and be aware of how you might have agreed to things you were not aware of. I worked for a major corporation and the non-compete clause I was under was nowhere as strict in the way it caused me to not be able to earn an income elsewhere.
Properly informed is power. Don’t mudsling and be led around like school children. Get the information and make your own informed decision.
Thank you.
August 11th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Quixtar is a fake and scam. Anyone who signed up with TEAM signed Quixtar papers at the same time knowing that this was a Quixtar Business Opportunity. This makes me HATE QUIXTAR. I say we wage WAR against them. We know who our leaders are and who the enemy is. Lets make this a civil war and fight to the death! Lets bring Amway to extinction and remove their names from the history books.
Amen
August 11th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
I just heard this news today, and all I could say was WHOA. These weren’t small fish that Alticor canned. Orrin Woodward? Don Wilson? Wow, these were guys that sat on so many IBOAI boards. I mean, wasn’t Wilson Vice-Chairman for a while?
Thank god I’m a member of the well respected WorldWide organization.
We don’t have to deal with this stuff because our leadership has always stressed building it right and with integrity.
Cheers,
Dax
August 11th, 2007 at 6:48 pm
Orrin doesn’t need to solicit us. We will solicit and remain loyal to him. We will track him down anywhere in the world to stand by him in any venture. I say we contact every media we can and let the world know how crooked and evil Quixtar is. I promise this within 5 years there will be no Quixtar
August 11th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Why didn’t Alticor just lower the price of the soap? Poor people want to be clean, too. With lower prices we would be able to sell the soap to every household of the United States of America, and change lives of millions of people!!! Or, maybe, it’s not the soap that makes the difference…. Everything rises and falls on leadership. Major leaders and drivers of the Quixtar, who served on their IBOA Board of Directors and had valid suggestions on how to lower prices, and make the company the largest retailer were simply ignored and cut. Great work!!! Now Quixtar is earning “great” reputation of Amway. Oh, it’s going to be Amway anyway, so no worries…
August 11th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
When almost half the IBOAI Board resigns, including some of the most respected and experienced IBO’s in the business, there is clearly something seriously - SERIOUSLY - wrong. You can’t wave a wide brush and tarnish everyone as being out of integrity, poor character, violating business practices, etc. Doesn’t fit. Doesn’t show respect for the fine people they are.
As for TEAM, everything I’ve learned over the past few months has been about striving to be our best - i.e., excellence in personal and business growth. Hard to slam that.
I’m waiting for the dust to settle, and see what changes Quixtar/Amway/Alticor will finally do - clearly 8 IBOAI Directors resigning isn’t causing Alticor directors to even blink. Sad.
August 11th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
I find it interesting that the TEAM group claims that the “high pricing” is the cause of their leaving at the very moment that Quixtar is rolling out a variety of price conscious new products. Seems to me that Quixtar is/has been responsive to that request so there was no reason to jump ship just when they were going to get what they wanted. With regard to the current prices … just price other cosmetics, for instance, at Sephora or Bare Escentuals or department stores and you will see that ours are very competitively priced for the value. Of course, our products were never meant to compete with the the discount chains of the world since they are so far superior. I have developed clients from every financial strata over the years who love the product/s that they buy and faithfully buy them over and over. The reality is that you can’t sell a product based on quality to someone only interested in the least cost, so find a higher quality of client.
Regarding the non-compete clause … please keep it in place as it protects all of us from the unfair practice of developing a business structure based on the integrity of Amway/Quixtar and then siphoning it away to your own business where you not only get the bonuses but also make money as the servicing corporation and product manufacturer.
August 11th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
If Alticor wants team to go, why don’t they just let them go without lowering themselves to childs play? They will be gone and they don’t have to worry about it. Why are they mudslinging so much? Are they scared? I hope they start acting more like adults.
August 11th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
I am a member of TEAM, I say TEAM instead of Quixtar because that is what I was joining, a team, not a shopping club!! Quixtar has never made an effort to show me how to build my business, care about me and my dreams, or done anything positive in my life. It is a great website, good quality products, but over priced. My family has bought things for many years in order to get a check back that we would have never bought otherwise, and I understand there is nothing else (that I know of) that pays you for shopping and that it was our decision to do such. I stand firm that I will go where someone cares about me and truly wants to help me succeed and not go to a company that has never done that!!!
Regarding some of the comments you made, we never hid the fact that Quixtar was the business that we shop from, it’s on the registration forms!! Also, we personally as TEAM members were never taught that it was “easy money” or that we were not signing a contract with Quixtar…nor did we or anyone on our teams ever teach that!!! We did teach that Quixtar/Alticor took care of all the product, tracking, shipping, and payment side of the business. TEAM taught how to build a business powered by Quixtar!!!
Next, you mention how you had a problem with the way Orrin ran his business, honestly I can’t see how when he had the fastest growing business and therefore that brought you in BIG $$$. That’s beside the point though… I know that the way we build depth is different from a lot of the other teams that use Quixtar, but it was approved by you, and I’m not talking about stacking, everyone on the TEAM knew stacking was a violation of Quixtar rules. Also, I know that you were not ignored by Orrin and the TEAM because there were things that changed (new paperwork, CDs revoked, new disclaimer at the end of CDs, and I’m sure there were more that I didn’t notice).
Okay, Orrin’s betrayl, get real!! He, and all the other leaders that you are “protecting” our business from, are protecting us from YOU. Seriously, they have enough money to live comfortably for the rest of their lives, what do they have to gain from suing you??!! They are doing what is morally and ethically right. From there point of view, and they have a great argument, Quixtar knows that we are legally suppose to have some product sales, and yet you refused to have prices lowered to make that easier on us. Again, Quixtar has not helped me build my business…so the TEAM leaders are risking their necks to help all IBOs, anyone who is reading this, they are helping you whether you are on TEAM or not. Even if these leaders do not win the lawsuit things are going to have to change at Alticor and the way Quixtar/Amway is run as a MLM business.
I also agree with many of the other bloggers that Quixtar must not care too much about the TEAM IBOs, such as myself, when they bash someone that we know has good values.
We respect these men that have so many years of experience in the business and would think that the corporation, that has also know these men for years, would deal with this matter in a more dignified manner!! I’m sorry I am very disappointed in you Quixtar/Alticor.
If you are not a TEAM IBO and would like to know both sides of the story, go to www.the-team.biz…the announcements are on the left, there is an attachment to the lawsuit that you must read!!
August 11th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
People, will you listen to yourselves? This isn’t who’s right and who’s wrong. These are two different philosophy’s that are not aligned properly. Can more than one philosophy exist? Of course. For that reason, the Team wishes to part from Quixtar. No one has a problem with that other than Quixtar. To my Team friends do you honestly think Orrin is such a poor chess player that he would not have started into this meeting with the end in mind? Do not worry he has a plan and we are all a part of it! To Quixtar and Amway, good luck in all your future endeavors.
August 11th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
I once told my upline leader, “if i never make a dime in this buisness, i will still owe you a debt that i could never repay, due to the leadership of this organization and the positive impact it has had in my life, and in my family.”
How many people attended the last major function? 30, 40, 50 thousand? somewhere around there. how many people do you think stayed at home? how much money are we generating through team? how long do you think it will be before another supplier wants our buisness? its the community that is the most important. not the content or the commerce. they can be replaced. the team community is THE BEST community to be affiliated with, whether quixtar is involved or not. any buisness can be successful with the team leadership put up next to it.
August 11th, 2007 at 8:54 pm
I am probably one rare IBO as I actually read all the business compendium when I 1st began my business 20 years ago and therefore have always known when anything being taught might infringe on Quixtars rules of conduct. I periodically review once a year in order to see if anything new has developed. All I can say to any IBO is to take responsibility for your own business. I consider the business relationship as a 3 legged stool, a support system with methods that follow legal and ethical tenants, me the IBO with a big, audacious dream and third and very important leg a means to provide product flow that creates a profit (retail clients) and commissions (bonuses) that reward your hard work furthermore regardless of gender thereby penetrating the “Glass Ceiling”. Also a proven track record of 50 years + without missing one bonus earned. I never worry about Quixtar being sold and suddenly everything changing for IBOS. When you minimize the importance of any of these 3 legs the stool falls down. I am saddened about all the of the people who will have to work harder because of that lawsuit. I am surprised that for 27 combined years of the IBOS of TEAM managed to tolerate such conditions they stated. In my opinion none of the allegations they stated in lawsuit have any merit. I think that it was all about the Non competition and Non solicitation rule and all the rest was blowing smoke. As bonuses are earned they finally overtake whatever you are spending on products. Most everything I buy I was buying anyway and spending my earnings on anyway. So if you take “anyway $ and spend on anyway products” you will create something new called new earnings in your income circle. It is all about belief. I am praying for all IBO’s on TEAM for a positive outcome for them. God Bless America
August 11th, 2007 at 8:58 pm
Response to Dwight # 82 statement #2 if a prospect from my town calls Quixtar for information they refer them to the Diamond in my area to sell them products or sponsor them. My question is what is different about the stacking rule for the company? This prospect has no pre-existing relationship with the Diamond! And I feel this is an unfair practice because I should have the same right to place a prospect in my down line. Also I wonder if the Quixtar Corp. has referred anyone to the TEAM leaders in the past 6 months that they just terminated. Did they? Did their need to move products get in the way of their own set of standards?
August 11th, 2007 at 9:14 pm
Steve, the one that has known Orrin personally for 7 years. I have nothing else to add, you said it perfectly, I’m a part of Florence’s team & the leaders of TEAM are my heroes. They are men of integrity & character, we are definetly going to one million people & beyond.
August 11th, 2007 at 9:27 pm
Thank god for Charlie and Elsie Marsh the majority of the business came from them, built with ethics and integrity if everyone in the world of Amway and Quixtar understood and built the business the way they built it, this would be a 100 billion dollar business and we would be picking and choosing who we want to work with.Charlie said 30 years ago that unethical people would not last in this business,he was right and now it’s time to take it back!!!!
August 11th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
If this blog is too raw emotion for you, then you can read the nicey-nicey official statement and press release from Quixtar on this topic:
http://www.quixtarnewsroom.com/pr/quixtar/Quixtar_statement_team.aspx
http://www.quixtarnewsroom.com/pr/quixtar/Quixtar%20Team%20News%20Release.aspx
What I like about the tone of this “Just Go, Team” blog is that it IS provocative–which is, I believe, the point. Right?
August 11th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
What I think is so funny about all of this is the title “Just Go Team”. We’re trying to, but they won’t let us with out a lawsuit. We just want out, thats all.
August 11th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
I am so proud of Orrin and Chris and the rest of the board members for stepping up for what is right. They have asked all of us Team members to not say negative things against Alticor/ Quixtar and Amway and I for one won’t. But I do have to say that the statement posted from from your site was extremely juvenile and rude. Orrin and the team have brought Quixtar thousands upon thousands of customers and what is going on is that Quixtar is now terrified as they see a majority leaving to follow Orrin and Chris with a organization that actually is standing for integrity. Really Quixtar is just hurting themselves.
August 11th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
Alticor’s PR sucks. Based on this Blog, they want Team to leave, did they forget to eat their Cheerios that day? Or did they forget that includes hundred of thousand IBOs, millions of sales? Yet they send out a sappy gutless email “please stay” and then crash talk us here? We will consider the class action suit fulfilled since this Blog has set us free from corporate dictatorship. I hope this Blog is view by the masses before the 08 election. Aliticor’s integrity sucks hopefully American’s will stay in tack.
August 11th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
CONGRATULATIONS QUIXTAR !!! I thought you were a free enterprise business, a business of helping people succeed, 21 days from being a fully qualified Emerald but your cheap shot e-mail (instead of handling this as christian brothers behind close doors) “spooked our teams and many hours of work flushed down the drain, and were supposed to trust you guys. Recommended reading for your “leaders” Speed of Trust, thanks for all you have done you have done just as much damage and confused alot of people and good luck in your future business whatever your name may become?
August 11th, 2007 at 10:05 pm
Response to Jim #94 who said:”…if a prospect from my town calls Quixtar for information they refer them to the Diamond in my area to sell them products or sponsor them. My question is what is different about the stacking rule for the company?…And I feel this is an unfair practice because I should have the same right to place a prospect in my down line”
Two things:
1) Platinum. Quixtar refers the person to a Platinum, not a Diamond. And they refer a potential IBO to a Platinum rather than l’il ol’ you, because the Platinum has proven him/herself. You, as the guy with the closest zip code, hasn’t.
2) This is not stacking. This is a referral. Quixtar has the interest of the new potential IBO in mind, rather than the interest of those who’ve been around the longest (as is the case with the stacking method).
Performance versus seniority.
Legal business model versus Ponzi scheme.
August 11th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
“Just go, Team” Alticor said it.
Good riddance” - several have said that.
Then why not just let them go? Alticor has probably made their millions off the sales. I saw the legal complaint on one of the blogs. It seems that what they want is to be able to leave without the waiting period. If you want them to go, agree to release them from the non-compete and let them go. What if a few IBO’s go with them? Not letting them go gives Quixtar the image of greed and petty vengance.
Besides, that’s nothing compared to the IBO failure rate that will occur when Quixtar changes its name to Amway. The two biggest obstacles I run into when I show catalogs to people are the pricing and the almost universal distrust of Amway. I always have to distance myself from the Amway name.
The negative publicity isn’t helping either side of the conflict.
August 11th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
I meant pyramid scheme. Not Ponzi scheme.
I’m getting my illegal business practices confused!
August 11th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
To Jim,
What I meant was that if a person called Quixtar and wanted to get into the business (an example someone else mentioned in an earlier post), the company does not automatically sign him/her up with some unknown sponsor. They have someone contact that person ‘in person’ and talk to them. If that person wants to get into the business, they sign up and are sponsored by the person they talked to. As I am hearing about this stacking that TEAM is doing, a person may be signed up under someone that they have never even met. That is why when they have been asked who their sponsor is, they don’t know. How personal is that.
I knew the person who sponsored me for a while before I signed up and we were friends. Later they left the business and the person that sponsored them became my new sponsor. I also knew them.
Also my sponsors ’suggested’ using books and tapes, but never told me I had to buy them. They have always been honest and above board with me.
Personally, I will stay with Quixtar/Amway and be honest with people. If someone asks if this (Quixtar) is Amway, I will patiently explain it to them. Then I will never have to worry that they will think I lied to them.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
and this is a direct quote from Alticor’s own site…
” Quixtar is actively reaching out to IBOs who were in the Team”
that’s waht they are calling this post ? I don’t THINK so…not with this diatribe against anyone of us who ever had a part in TEAM.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Hi Bridgett, Oh, Did I forget to tell you that I am a Platinum? l’il ol’ you know’s his facts and has built the business! I left this part out just to see if I could get the responce I expected from someone like you. Welcome to the new Amway business where you find out the rest of the story when it is too late!
August 11th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
#102 SA said:21 days from being a fully qualified Emerald but your cheap shot e-mail (instead of handling this as christian brothers behind close doors) “spooked our teams and many hours of work flushed down the drain, and were supposed to trust you guys…thanks for all you have done you have done just as much damage and confused alot of people.”
Response: SA, if you built your Emeraldship the way TEAM does (stacking), it is ILLEGAL.
ILLEGAL, IMMORAL, UNETHICAL.
A/A/Q caused damage and confusion? Are you sure it wasn’t Orrin and Chris who has caused damage and confusion—to the ENTIRE community of IBOs?
You are blaming Alticor/Amway/Quixtar because the “leaders” of TEAM taught you how to build an illegal business?
That’s kinda messed up logic don’t you think?
August 11th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
DeVos/VanAndle - Like fathers NOT like sons. In 1959 Rich and Jay started Amway because they couldn’t continue with Nutrilite Corp’s unfair practices. Today, almost 50 years later their sons are doing the same thing to IBOs that caused their fathers to break away from Nutrilite. Thank God for people like the Woodwards and Bradys and everyone associated with TEAM. They have been the only ones with the guts to stand up to the greedy DeVos/VanAndle kids. Anyone who reads the complaint filed by the co-founders of TEAM will see that they have valid argument. It seems that the Amway/Quixtar Management is on the wrong side of this issue. Stop being so greedy.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:34 pm
Quixtar will let the Team go, they can all write letters and get out. It will be several months before Team has anything put together anyway. Team has some leverage in the marketplace but not enough to put together a product line like Quixtar offered. They’ll be selling fuel addatives and vitamins for a while.
Team leaving Quixtar without a product line creates a mass of problems.
1. What about the Ibo’s and member clients who like the products…they won’t leave
2. In the interm all Team has is a cd and book selling busines That won’t sell!
3. Team upline is already recruiting downline in other peoples ” second teams” especially those on system since that is the only source of income for the near future. I’m seeing this happen already. A current Quixtar Emerald won’t be making much money with no PV. A current IBO on system looks like a life vest on the Titantic.
3 Who decides who goes where and how will the business be structured.
It will be a long and messy divorce
August 11th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
I echo 41 completely! Thank you for all you do Alticore and all the employees.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
Looks like a lot has happened in the last 48 hours. As a long time IBO I have thought I had seen it all.Apparently not! High prices have been difficult to overcome but the belief that the products were superior caused us to trudge forward anyway, building our teams (no pun intended).
It is true that Amway allowed their name to be damaged, but equally true that they also failed to protect the Quixtar name. In a stroke of genius, a decision was made to go back to Amway since that was their roots. That should help a lot since the name still produces 8 out of 10 negative comments on a google search even though the company has not done business in the US for several years. The “team”
Now another brilliant decision has been made. In less than 2 hours the decision was made to terminate the businesses of some of the most respected men in the history of the business. These are men that sacrificed countless hours, days, even weeks of their lives serving on the IBOA board in an attemt to help move the business (Amway, then Quixtar) forward, to make it a better opportunity for the men and women who joined the overall “team” (not to beconfused with TEAM as on individual organization). These men were often praised by the corporation for their dedication and loyalty, as well as for the contribution their efforts made to the company and the IBO organizations. Their termination by the company is a sad thing for all IBO’s as well as for Quixtar. No one will win , everybody looses. I hope that in the future decisions of such great impact will be more carefully considered.
I realize this is lengthy, But I truly love this business and it is very dissappointing to realize that the company seems more interested in corporate ego than long term growth for allinvolved.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:00 am
In response to # 106… Team “stacking” is just as you desribed the company “referral” to be. People may not physically meet their sponsor, but they are introdced at a minimum by phone,preferably in person, to their sponsor. How is that stacking?
August 12th, 2007 at 12:20 am
What a crying shame. Amway is horribly damaging their already extremely tarnished reputation. I truly feel sorry for all if the IBO’s making a honest effort to build the Amway “business”. Amway is just killing their American business…it is rather obvious that they are putting all of their focus outside of this country. They might want to consider canning the Amway name and changing their name to “Chinway”. The free enterprise minded people in the USA are wising up. I certainly hope DeVos has not intentions of running for any political offices again, he is really screwing up his creditability.
Do all of you who are siding with Amway really think that Woodward and Brady have lost their minds or developed a “bighead”…these guys are standing up for the common men and women of America! Do you really think that the other extremely successful IBO’s that have been with Amway, and have had extremely large organizations, would be putting their businesses at risk to fight the battle of preserving free enterprise, and fighting the consumer rebellion?
In response to 81. Chris… I wouldn’t judge the Leaders character if I were you. They stuck with Quixtar/Alticor/Amway with hopes that they would eventually change their pricing structure. They put a lot of time and effort into the matter so you could build a more successful business.
I hope that those of you not affiliated with Team attempt to understand the truth, for the sake of your businesses and your families.
Whatever the Team leaders(it’s not just the Woodward/Brady show anymore)have in store [thanks to Amway for announcing to all of the Team IBO’s about the possibility of a new MLM (they didn’t know)], you all need to know that it is for the good of our country. They have God on their side, He knows where their heart is!
August 12th, 2007 at 12:22 am
Recently (July 2007) we had a IBO within our orgaization who had been in for some time decided they no longer wanted to be associated with the Quixtar name.
They sent in a letter requesting to be released and as simple as that the corporation terminated ther IBO #. Would this not be possible for those of us who have decided we no longer wish to be associated Quixtar?
Instead of mud slinging and lawsuits - would it not be simpler to leave without damaging the name of Quixtar or Team?
August 12th, 2007 at 12:28 am
I am a recent member of TEAM. Our upline organization joined this year. I do not know Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady personally, though I have heard them speak and listen to their CD’s.
The most recent time was on the 4th of August, at our local Seminar, when Orrin and his lovely wife Laurie spoke for us. They were warm, real and funny people, and you could tell they cared about the people there. They were in the middle of this, ready to fly back for the emergency IBOAI Board meeting that led to all of this, and revealed none of it. Instead, they imparted wisdom and strength to all there.
I do know Don and Nancy Wilson personally. I have been in their home. I know them to be people of integrity and character. In answer to someone’s querey, Don was not just Vice-President of the IBOAI Board (the capacity in which he was serving when he resigned), he was a past PRESIDENT of it!! He and Nancy mentored Randy and Valorie Haugen, and as the leaders of TEAM Legacy, I know Don and therefore also Randy would do nothing ill-considered or rash, and would ONLY act in the best interests of the IBO’s in their groups.
Don and Randy have chosen to go with TEAM. Where they go, WE GO. They and our upline sponsors and Diamonds have earned our trust and love. This hate-filled diatribe of a blog has almost ruined any chance of good feelings for the future between us and you, Quixtar or Amway or whatever you’re calling yourselves this week.
And yes, I read the whole lawsuit, the same day the TEAM office emailed it to us. They communicated with us FIRST, and told us the TRUTH and let us see it for ourselves, instead of hitting us with hate like you did.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:30 am
This is long winded, so I will apologize, but in my bias opinion, it is worth your time.
It is interesting what people say on here. I will admit, I do not know ALL the FACTS, but I know all that is available to me; including what the lawsuit entails. I think it is important that if you would like to get your point across, at least do your homework and post only on the topics that you have taken the time to research for yourself.
I am a member of TEAM and am very proud of that. I do see how people are criticizing some of our members for not thinking for themselves. There are posts from both sides that show ignorance and lack of thinking. This is not a problem with TEAM, this is a problem with our society. People read something, hear something, see something on TV and decide to speak on it like they are experts. It is not TEAM’s fault some members do become drones. That is definitely NOT the goal behind their system. We are encouraged to read many books that are not written by anyone in our organization. Every book has been extremely inspiring and encourages personal growth. It has actually given me a great deal of new knowledge.
Please stop and really think about how most businesses/companies that you have had experience with operated/treated you. I have encountered many situations that were un-ethical, un-just, etc. Corporate America sucks! And unfortunately, every decision in business can not be a win/win. I attended GVSU and earned my degree in advertising/marketing with a minor in business. I have been in many different executive business positions and because of the “game” attached with corporate America, I chose to start my own business 2 years ago. It has been extremely successful and continues to profit each and every month. Though this is true, I am looking for a better opportunity and TEAM is it. TEAM may not be perfect, but I feel it is the best opportunity that I have experienced.
41. Chaitanya Says:
“All of you who want to leave can leave!”
That is the main thing that TEAM is asking for. There is a 6 month non-compete that Quixtar has in their contract. We can not leave and continue to operate as an IBO until that period is over.
If it comes down to it, I know that we will choose to leave Quixtar and put our business on hold for 6 months. That is a small price to pay in order to continue to build our business in such a way that opportunity is truly available for anyone.
We were lucky enough to see the plan when XS was already part of the product line. If it wasn’t, I would have laughed at Quixtar’s pricing and shut the door on this opportunity forever. Though the quality of the other products is good…they do not justify the prices. The internet plays a HUGE part in retail competition because price comparisons are just a click away. I feel that Quixtar will have to change their ways in order to provide a solid opportunity for new IBOs. I hope they do.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:36 am
#108, Jim, you’re a Platinum?
I don’t believe you.
If you are a Platinum and not receiving referrals from the Corp., then maybe it’s because the Corp wouldn’t refer anyone to you because you are not building your QUIXTAR business in accordance with THE QUIXTAR IBO COMPENSATION PLAN
http://www.quixtar.com/documents/iwov/vis/010-en/pdf/IBO%20Support/BusForms/SA4400.pdf
and the RULES OF CONDUCT
http://www.quixtar.com/About/default.aspx?cid=4175&pid=639
Have any of you TEAM IBOs been exposed to these documents?
August 12th, 2007 at 12:43 am
I think that if the management and owners of Quixtar had vision they would have put Orin and Chris on the board of Quixtar instead of what they’ve done. Those two guys would have brought a breath of fresh air into a company that has forgotten its original promise. Quixtar would be doing 1 billion a quarter by now instead instead of annually.
Despite this debacle, MLM activity will continue to explode and it will only be a matter of time before the market produces a player that can deliver high quality products at competitive prices and provide an environment of profitability for its IBO’s.
The bottom line is that this incident marks the begining of the end for Quixtar’s high prices and unreasonably high profits at the expense of its IBO’s. It is consumer demand that drives manufacturing to meet that demand not the other way around. The consumer or community has the economic power over the manufacturer not the other way around. Quixtar will have to compete or Quixtar won’t survive.
Quixtar may not see viable competition on the horizon but that shouldn’t keep them from making the right business decisions now before it’s too late. Something as basic to business as competitive pricing should not be an issue, especially to executives of a 1 billion dollar company who should have learned that in Business 101.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:51 am
109…
You don’t understand how Team builds…it is FAR from IMMORAL and UNETHICAL, you haven’t a clue!
If you want call it illegal, think twice…I bet you have never gone a mph over the speed limit, or have you? Speeding serves a purpose, stacking (which really isn’t the method) doesn’t!!
A piece of advise to all of you…
pick up a good book this blog, or any for that matter, is a waste of your time!!!
August 12th, 2007 at 12:53 am
In response to 116. CAT
TEAM did request that they no longer be associated w/ Quixtar and be exempt from the 6mo. non-compete clause in the IBO contract. Since Quixtar would not grant that (for obvious reasons), TEAM filed the lawsuit requesting that the courts grant us the freedom to operate with a different company.
We would have happily left with out any legal action.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:54 am
Why didn’t Alticor/Quixtar/Amway just lower the extravagant prices on their products? Have any of you asked yourself that question? If not, you should. It’s also not a coincidence that Alticor/Quixtar/Amway are allegdedly going to have lower prices starting in October. Alticor/Quixtar/Amway knew that a large percentage of IBO’s have been very upset about product pricing. How did they know this? Because Orrin and Chris have been trying to reason with them for a couple of years about lowering the prices of the products to be more competetive with todays GLOBAL market. Alticor/Quixtar/Amway have an unsavory reputation that can not be ignored. They have not cleaned up their business practices and if you doubt this you should read the lawsuit involving Alticor/Amway/Quixtar vs Nitro Dist.,Palm Convention Services,Inc.,Netco Inc.,Schmitz & Associates Inc., and U-Can II, Inc. This lawsuit involves Alticor/Amway/Quixtar’s Arbitration provision and how they screen and hand pick the arbitrators. Then they put them through a 2 day training period of more interviews, training videos (10 hours) and role playing using specific scenarios that may arise in from this business. In the end Alticor/Amway/Quixtar’s actions were found unconscionable by the U.S District Court for The Western District Of Missouri.
If you’re happy with Alticor/Amway/Quixtar’s business practices then I say “stick with them”. If you’re not, then move on to bigger and better opportunities. The last time I checked this was still The United States Of America; the land of opportunity for ALL, not just Alticor/Amway/Quixtar. Shame on anyone who would stand in the way of someone else’s FREEDOM and PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. Those are our rights as guaranteed to us by the US Constitution.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:56 am
I just don’t get why Quixtar just concidered Team’s depth concept “Illegal” until now. The Team has been building their business in that form since 1999. Oh, and it has been the fastes growing organization since then as well. So 9 years of Depth building TEAM style and now they want to say it’s illegal. Something doesn’t add up. Its not just “stacking” its leverage. That’s a true “B”-type Busines. If you don’t know what that means… READ BOOKS ABOUT IT!!! I don’t care if I never make a dime with The Team. Their training system gives you true wealth… YOUR MIND!!! A good example of what’s in your mind is what comes out as words either written or spoken. By the looks
of it in here, some of you need to read more people skill books and business books. I will follow The Team wherever it goes. SPECIALLY TO 1,000,000 people and beyond.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:57 am
I am a frequent visitor but infrequent poster to the Opportunity Zone and followed.a link to this blog. I am not a memeber of Team. I do particpate and utilize the tools that my upline provide that I think benefit my business.
Alticor’s oppening comments are an embarrasment to any one older then 16. This is a business not some kid’s personal My Space blog.No wonder there are no names attached to the corp rep as there is in the O.Z.What mature business person would attach their name to such garbage? In addition I actually agree with something Tex writes. These aren’t blog posts they are novels. There is more pertinant information available in 10 min on the O.Z. then can be waded through here in an hour.
Team is portraying themselved as the defender of the IBO while Quixtar is the one who has just made significant improvements in a their business that benefits the IBO. Whose talking and who is attempting to drag their people into another business so they can make even more money off their downline. Back to the OZ. Hopefully these topics will be discussed in a professional manner instead of the childish tenor that Alticor created here.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:10 am
I recently put my business on hold. I am a platinum on the Team. I couldn’t justify continuing to put people in my business and replace them. I am a person of integrity. I have personally spent time with Orrin Woodward. I know he is a person of integrity as well. I know there is nothing wrong with Team’s training system. But I know that the products were overpriced. I was wondering how this would all shake out. I am starting to see the light. Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady are not stupid men. If they filed a class action suit against Alticor, you can bet it is rock solid. NOTE in the lawsuit it states Team wants nothing from Alticor, accept to leave peacefully. I for one will follow Team’s lead as of the time I read about what was happening I will also be resigning my business. I did not think, a corporation the size of Alticor would be in such grave danger of an implosion, but then again look at Enron, Tyco and list goes on and on. On a counseling session with Orrin, I asked him. What is the difference between me and you Orrin. He said it was the way people think. When I thought like him I would have the business he has. He left me with this. People of integrity expect to be believed, and when they are not. Time will prove them right. Time will prove the integrity of the people involved in Team and the leadership that steers it.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:16 am
109 Bridgett: It would do well to remember that this supposed “ILLEGAL, IMMORAL, UNETHICAL” “stacking” activities were reviewed, analyzed and condoned by Quixtar since TEAM (ToD) started in 1999.
It does not make sense to suddenly say that it is illegal. Did I miss a new law or FTC rule???
August 12th, 2007 at 1:43 am
Wow,I have just spent the last few hrs reading all that has been posted. To say the least these are very emotional, intense times. I have been an IBO for 4years now and have recently been associated with TEAM via my upline for about 4 months now. I don’t pretend to even know all that has or will go on. No one will. I agree with the comment made by both sides to take ownership of your business and know the rules and what you stand for. OWN your business. I do have to comment on what some people are calling ’stacking’… If you show your best friend Mike, he gets in, you show is best freind Sean, he gets in, then his best freind Julie, she gets in, then Mike shows his sister Jen, (here comes decision time…) doe he HAVE TO start a second leg now, because Julie does not know Jen? Or can he keep momentum going, by introducing them and creating a team atmosphere with everyone so that leaders will emerge and that leg is secure. This is a much better way to build instead of, hey throw as much mud agains the wall as you can and see what sticks, then work with them… You wonder why Amway and Quixtar got their bad reputation to begin with, because of the failure rate of building that way… If you have several leaders in a leg rotating the pattern, you WILL have folks that do not know each other sponsoring each other to build that TEAM!! There was way too much of a failure rate building WIDE… Remember Long Term Vision and Delayed Gratification…
I hope everyone involved becomes a stronger business man/woman becaus of this… what does not kill us…
Be blessed
August 12th, 2007 at 1:54 am
#127 Jester…
Rules of Conduct:
“4.25. IBO Plan Manipulation: No IBO shall manipulate the IBO Plan or sales volume, in any way which results in the payment of bonuses or other awards and recognition that have not been earned in accordance with the terms of the IBO Plan and/or the Business Reference Guide.”
Not all stacking is against the rules–for example, it may make sense for family members to be sponsored under each other. But TOTAL strangers?
This method benefits the upline. To say that you can’t sponsor a 2nd leg until you are 20 deep in your first leg?
Quixtar wants to make sure IBOs understand that stacking is optional, and that an IBO with only one leg will not be as profitable as an IBO with multiple legs.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:01 am
TEAM members, my question is, if you don’t use or sell the products and don’t follow the Quixtar comp plan or the rules, then why did you sign up as a Quixtar IBO in the first place?
Or did you not know you were becoming a Quixtar IBO?
Perhaps the timing of TEAM’s lawsuit is in direct relation to Quixtar’s new registration policy announced a week or so ago:
Beginning September 5, 2007, all online new IBO registrations will require that a signed 2008 Registration Agreement be faxed or mailed to Quixtar to complete the process. Quixtar will also provide reminders to new IBOs, their Sponsor, and Platinum after registration to ensure they are familiar with the requirements and timeframe.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:11 am
Rocket (#61),
I get a kick out of you not making a point, as usual.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:18 am
lol most of u people are worried about stacking/depth building… What is moraly wrong with that? everyone helps everyone, no one succeeds alone. There is nothing wrong with depth buliding, it is the best way to produce results/income with the business model given to us by Quixtar.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:21 am
Wow!!!!
First I would like to comment. Tex your weak get off the internet! #49 Kevin thank you # 51 I wish I could join you # 32 your looking threw a Key hole! #55 your right! Think about this folks. # 53 It’s really true, community is it! #65 are you a Platinum? If not shut up! #54 Jim thank you! I’m a new platnium after 19 years, my 1st year by the way and I have to agree with you I have battled with building my group from 100-200+ for years. You have my respect! To set the record stright for all reading I’m not part of TEAM! I’m a out side group looking at this saying to myself this is a sad! Guys, these are real men Of STEEL that the corperation is throwing in the trash. THINK!!!! & Read Orrin’s complaint! When MEN fight when they don’t need to? You must ask WHY? Orrins plan has been approved from many years by the corperation. This is the truth! They didn’t want a new MLM or to leave they whanted change. I know this to be true I have been behind close doors with these leaders. After 19 years you build friendships & know the truth & if you have not build it a 100 wide and deep(as I have, both ways) you don’t have the degree to even repley! # 63 Terri I love you! You have said it all. Everyone Please read #63!!!!!!!!
August 12th, 2007 at 2:30 am
Sorry!!!NOT #63 read #68, TERRI I still love you. Every one please read #68 this is a DIAMOND’s Daughters talking.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:43 am
Two months ago I listened to an old Chris Brady tape. This was when he was with the Yager group. This was a story tape and he spoke about loyalty to Dexter and that he would always be loyal. Most of the diamonds that were terminated spoke about loyalty to Dexter. All of a sudden a few years ago we never saw these diamonds at our functions.
On the other hand, of all of the negative about Q/A I have never seen or read about a bonus check that was earned and not paid by Q/A.
To all of the TEAM members that want to follow these “leaders”, please think about who has the integrity?
Q/A should continue to work on pricing.
However, I choose quality over price. (There are a few products that I complain about)
Maybe the new TEAM MLM will have toothpaste and dog food that is made in China.
I have always been proud to explain that it does not matter when you get in. How can anyone defend stacking?
Great post Bridgett!
August 12th, 2007 at 3:05 am
Oh…. #109 Bridgett (ILLEGAL, IMMORAL, UNETHICAL) This is a sad comentary! The fastest group in Quixtar! Did they not break 3 Diamonds this year & how many Emeralds?? After 19 years I have seen it all. Stop talking lady you have not a thing to say worth hearing.
Folks stop listing to the corperation listen to the truth. OH did i mention I’m Not part of TEAM! Just a voice of what is right! & a Quilfying Platinum & sad of it.
GET THE TRUTH FOLKS! MEN Don’t lose all they have built for a lie!
August 12th, 2007 at 3:37 am
Y’all are FIRED UP.
Nothing like Passion to fuel a discussion or fight.
I hope every IBO understands you are in BONDAGE for 6 MONTHS with Quixtar/Amway whether you quit or are terminated for ANY reason. Where is the FREE Enterprise in that????
In the end, Quixtar is dead and Amway in the US as a multi-level business, that is a joke.
I am a currently Qualified Founders Quixtar Platinum and would rather quit before I would be under the Amway branding. If it would have been www.amway.com instead of Quixtar would YOU have signed up? Why didn’t the corporation do this in Sept. 1999? HUM.
PEOPLE OF INTEGRITY EXPECT TO BE BELIEVED, AND WHEN THEIR NOT, THEY LET TIME PROVE THEM RIGHT.
August 12th, 2007 at 3:58 am
September 1st or shortly thereafter, all IBO’s will be required to lead with Amway. ” Hi _____, can I come show you the Amway business?”
Then after the plan you must give them the new sa-4000 / equivalent brochure. Page 3 has Rich & Jay telling your prospect they are getting in Amway.
I have been in the business for many years and have thousands in Quixtar with me.
I have an offer for you Alticore folks.
I want any Quixtar / Amway ( Mastermind that came up with this brilliant idea ) to call 50 of their friends/family with the “amway” lead.
If you can show the plan and sponsor 5, I will give you my bonus for the year ( $50,000 or so ), If not, you give me your income for the year…. Sound crazy? don’t want to lose your income? Either did I!!!!
The Titanic sunk…
Anyone crazy enough to launch the Titanic II should be required to go down with it!
Thank God there are leaders willing to fight the battle now.
August 12th, 2007 at 3:58 am
when is Quixtar going to protect start protecting the IBOs by cleaning up these rules that protect the system owners. I saw this on you tube http://youtube.com/watch?v=C-gfJOmCgZw
August 12th, 2007 at 4:11 am
theteamisright@yahoo.com
WE ARE WITH YOU ORRIN!!!!
WE ARE PRAYING FOR YOU AND THE LEADERS OF THE TEAM
TO MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR DREAMS.
Thank you Leaders Thank you “ORRIN”
“WHEN THE CRITICS SAID NO MY DESTINY SAID GO”
THE DREAM is Back because of the TEAM
August 12th, 2007 at 4:38 am
I’m with you, Don #128. I’m not going to say that the last [choose a large number of] minutes (or hours) were wasted, but this is obviously a topic close to many people’s hearts.
Let me start off by explaining: I am a member of the Legacy group (i.e., founded by Don & Nancy Wilson) and have been since approx 1993. Unlike Orrin & Laurie, who started roughly the same time as me, I have not built my business actively. When it came time to renew a few years ago, my wife and I decided against it. In October 2006 we heard from our original sponsors about the alignment with TEAM. We heard about TEAM Approach (the practice of building straight down a leg instead of developing individual groups) and DOT1/STEP (Ditto On The 1st/Sip Twice, Eat, Profit). We also heard about the TEAM System. All of these things made logical sense, simply streamlining the things we had been working with before. TEAM Approach gave a way to improve IBO retention by giving IBO’s proof that the Quixtar business plan works. DOT1/STEP helped new IBO’s navigate the thousands of products available to them, giving them the highest value way to meet their monthly volume quotas, preferably by using “anyway money”. And the TEAM System was much more clearly laid out than the one we were using before. All of this has given us hope again that we can get a business built that will help us achieve our dreams.
I mention the above to give those of you who (for your own assuredly valid reasons) dislike TEAM and its leadership a perspective from the other side. The spirit of the “changes” made by the Woodwards and the Bradys are pure, even if the implementation is sometimes less so.
I have read the suit filed by the TEAM leadership and company. I have not specifically confirmed the quoted sections of the Quixtar contract, however, I will trust that the lawyers have done their part and confirmed the veracity of the facts included. One thing which concerns me is that the document makes the claim that Quixtar knew prices were too high to be competitive (later backed up with statements by Quixtar representatives) yet chose not to do anything in order to maintain profits being made by the founding families. Assigning motive for these actions would seem to me to be beyond the scope of this legal document, however, I am not a lawyer.
I believe that this issue has been dealt with poorly by both parties. I have read well-written posts on this page by people from both sides of the argument. Unfortunately, I have also read posts which seem not to have been thought out by the authors before submitting them. Most unfortunately of all, the first of those ill-advised posts is the very blog entry which started it all. Alticor, if you (or your staff) thought that putting the word “informally” at the beginning of this entry entitled you to sling mud without thought of consequence, then you really need to bring in some NEW experts in internet-related socio
I won’t claim to know any (never mind all) the facts in this matter. The history of Quixtar/Amway/Alticore has shown it to be a company of high moral fibre, just as many of the leaders who have parted ways with the company are. And, while I am certain that all of the leaders who have resigned (or had stripped) their IBOships have done things in building their businesses of which they are not proud, the facts put forward in the lawsuit regarding Alticore’s treatment of the Amway Corp., 93 F.T.C. 618(1979) ruling should put those responsible to shame, as well.
I personally believe that all things work for the best, but even so I hope that all involved can weather the storm, regardless of which side they choose.
God Bless,
Richard
August 12th, 2007 at 4:45 am
I originally became an IBO under Billy Florence’s group, DCI, and was excited about that organization becoming a part of TEAM. I have been to all the seminars and National conventions and no where do they encourage or promote disparaging remarks against any MLM company or Alticor/Quixtar/Amway. All TEAM IBO’s within the past 48 hours have been told not to say any disparaging remarks against Quixtar, etc. We are above that and our cause is just and right. Truth will win! Saying anything negative about this business opportunity hurts ALL Quixtar IBO’s, regardless of who their allegience lies! Quixtar changing their name back to AMWAY will also hurt all IBOs and MY own reputation will suffer as a result. The AMWAY name has suffered from a bad reputation for many years. That is why they decided to start Quixtar, in an attempt to hide that they were affiliated with AMWAY Corp! Did they care enough to ask for any IBO’s opinion about the name change? No Now Quixtar is saying they are going to lower prices and invest millions in improvements to make my business more profitable after years of the IBOAI leaders pleas for them to do just that! I’ll only believe it when I see it! Quixtar has been making false promises for years. However, Orrin and all the other IBOAI leaders that resigned as a matter of principle and ethics, have never made any false promises to their TEAMS. Why would other DIAMOND organizations have joined up with TEAM, if they were teaching anything illegal that was not Quixtar or IBOAI approved! Alticor starting this mudslinging HATE blog telling me to GO is going to backfire and hurt them beyond repair! It not only makes them look BAD, it further degrades the already irreputable AMWAY name! What AMWAY/Quixtar/Alticor have done has made it harder for all IBOs to have any credibility! I have not made any money with Quixtar as an IBO, (have lost money) and the only reason I stayed with them was because of the TEAM and what they stand for and the leadership training that has made me a better person and improved other areas of my life. Without the TEAM, I would have left Quixtar a long time ago! I will stay with TEAM because of the leadership training they provide is outstanding and applies to all areas of life, not just Quixtar. If you truly know Orrin, Chris, Billy and the 15 leaders who RESIGNED from Quixtar and the IBOAI Board, then you know truth and integrity.
August 12th, 2007 at 4:57 am
Termination!!
Terminate rather then sit down and resolve issues?
I thought I purchased a business…
I can be terminated at my JOB!
We gotta ask… if the result of TEAM and IBOAI leaders is to protect our interest in a profitable business… would the questions and request to evaluate pricing not benefit all???
How much is my loyalty worth to Quixtar? I want the win-win… knowing that all of my efforts to build a community are jeopardized by termination is socialist since I did the work not Alticor… People of integrity…expect to be believed…
August 12th, 2007 at 5:26 am
Stick with TEAM, I will! OKAY
August 12th, 2007 at 5:46 am
There are rules…and they should be followed!
You SHOULD stop your vehicle when you see a red signal! That’s it! nothing more and nothing less!
May be your frienlly neighborhood policeman hadn’t caught you jumping signals until now - but what if he did now?
or what if he found that he can’t allow you to go on this way anymore?
Products are costly? huh?
Sitting here in India I’m able to sell a considerable amount of products at full retail to my customers in the US!
And mind you! none of them are Indians or of Indian origin!
I’ll call you up someday and ask you if you are open to build an Amway business?
and if you say no, I’ll call your 6 billion cousins and ask them the same question!
Because I believe the products are of value and the oppurtunity is unmatched!
A few nano seconds after I signed up I found out the products were costly!
I had a choice to quit then and there or find out the value they offer!
I guess you did too! I assume that Orrin did too!
why didn’t they quit then?
Alticor is a global corporate entity!
They have a policy - they have to stick to the rules too!
It’s a decision they have taken based on their policies!
Now if Orrin is unhappy - he has gone to the courts for justice - so that’s fair too!
You too have a choice!! Submit your resignation to the corp and just follow the rules and go build any other business you want to!
Both sides might have a valid reason to their actions!
Some might feel betrayed! That’s OK!!
If you are angry on the corp. - that’s OK too!
That’s why Alticor is posting your comments here!
My point is Alticor and Orrin will act in their own interests! I request you should too!
It’s your future! You decide where your future is secure - You decide where you are justified
and then go out and build your future!
This backlash will continue and it’s natural!
But for me after posting this comment I have a plan to show and I believe my prospect will like the new Satinique detangler a lot!
thanx
August 12th, 2007 at 5:57 am
I have been affiliated with AMWAY/QUIXTAR/ALTICOR now for over 10 years. My wife and I are sapphires in the business, and have been interested in TEAM’s growth for the past 5 yrs. NOT YET AFFILIATED.
The resignations are supprising, not all were long time TEAMmates and Why would you terminate #1 growing organization for 8 yrs now? Since they have practiced their “team approach” for the entire time. Why havn’t they terminated everyone who builds any kind of depth? Why havn’t they terminated anyone for purchasing & selling a book or cd? Sounds like a coorporate cover up to me. The name change back to Amway will destroy the business in north america. No one from Quixtar/Amway/Alticore has ever built this business, what do they know? Are they ever going to help you? What if DeVos/VanAndel had to build legs to qualify each month? They would probably quit to! My hat is off to those who risked everthing, not a bunch of employees wetting down one leg to keep a job or a bunch of gut-less billionaire sons who wouldn’t last 1 second in the homes of america building their so called great opportunity. As long as TEAM doesn’t change their name to AMWAY II I think I’m going their direction. By the way their tool business and compensation has been reveiwed by the top MLM attorney in the country. Guess what, passed with flying colors? Imagine what 2 honest guys who don’t care if their kids or themselves ever become billionaires, with the backing of 27 plus years of experience from their friends could do with the money? My bet is I will make more wiht them than QuixWay/Altocor/DEVANDLE.
August 12th, 2007 at 6:03 am
Oh by the way, the title is the best line!
TALKS CHEEP ALTICOR/AMSTAR
IF IT IS GOOD RIDANCE, LET THEIR PEOPLE GO?
IF YOU HAD SUCH A GOOD OPPORTUNITY YOU WOULDN’T NEED A NON COMPETE. NO ONE WOULD WANT TO LEAVE, THERE WOULDN’T BE ANYTHING ANY BETTER OUT THERE!
August 12th, 2007 at 6:59 am
8 IBOAI members resigned - that says something.
Seems like this is the case in a nutshell:
IBOAI members ha previously tried to negotiate a better deal for IBOs. Alticor leadership did not respond in good faith. Reaching an impass several of them approached Alticor asking to leave amicably.
Because their departure is the result of Alticor’s unwillingness to respond in good faith to IBOAI members, they asked that those IBOs who wish leave be allowed to join another MLM.
Alticor’s response has been to terminate 15 top leaders, and hide the real reasons by pointing at Orrin Woodward and saying his business model was the problem.
The issue here is not stacking or tools. THE ISSUE HERE IS THE NON-COMPETE CLAUSE. It seems that Alticor leadership is trying to hide that.
August 12th, 2007 at 7:13 am
I have read the class action and it is obvious that the “TEAM” filed it with malice intent toward the Alticor companies. Apparently trying to do as much damage as possible to the highly respected companies. Probably trying to damage as many business-to-business relationships as possible and trying to make whatever they come up with look better.
Personally comparing Amway products I have found them to be very cost competitive and manufactured to the highest standards. I don’t see how they can call them overpriced when the cost per use is less than the competition.
I have met many people involved in the TEAM and although they were all good people they were taught to build the business improperly. I hope Quixtar continues on it’s path of cleaning house by taking care of these rule of conduct violations as early as possible to avoid damage to new IBOs.
As a stand alone business with no support system except the person who signed you up, the Amway/Quixtar business model is still the best opportunity I have ever seen.
August 12th, 2007 at 7:52 am
If anyone from WorldWide is reading this blog. Be happy we’re not a part of this. Brad Duncan himself said that this should have happened a long time ago (if you’re in his LOS, you got the message).
This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. No doubt Puryear will touch on it at F.E.D.
PS - Jeez, what’s with everyone leaving essay answers. It’s a blog people. It’s supposed to have quick replies.
August 12th, 2007 at 7:59 am
wow,
all this to get a simple problem out in the open so it can get fixed, finally…hopefully
the price points are non competitive, have been for years, please fix ‘em
for the iboai board folks, thanks for doing what we voted you in for.
August 12th, 2007 at 8:06 am
Once again, if these men were men of integrity, why is it a problem to follow the rules and wait the 6 month period? They signed the contract, follow the rules that the contract lays out. They have more than enough money to sustain them for 6 months so this shouldn’t be a problem. If they do not have enough money for this, then they need to get rid of a few of their luxury items that are just wants and not needs. If some of their people want to follow them, then follow the rules laid out in the same contract that you signed. Special treatment is not required just because you have a bunch of money and things.
August 12th, 2007 at 8:58 am
I once attended a rally where Don and Nancy Wilson were the speakers. I had no problem with her, but Don was another story. He was very flippant and condescending. He insinuated that everyone that got in and didn’t go Diamond in five years was an idiot.
I once attended a rally where Randy and Valerie Haugen were the speakers. His way of running his business and training others was great, if you like your life being run by a totalitarian dictator.
I once attended a rally where Billy and Peggy Florence were the speakers. I don’t think Peggy ever had a clue as to what the business was all about. Billy talked as if he had utter contempt for the company and it’s founders. He refused to ever say the company name. He disrespected the business so much that I finally could not stand it anymore and got up and walked out. I think the entire Yager organization feels this way about the business and I am sorry to say I am a part of it.
When I first saw this business, it was Amway. The name meant nothing to me. I was blown away by what I saw. The trouble was, nobody wanted to actually help me get started. All they wanted was to load me up with tapes, books, and function tickets. I had to literally figure out on my own how to build the business. I am not sorry to see any of these people go. Yes, the post was unprofessional. So was the last lawyer I had. So was the last doctor I had. Get over it, get a dream with a deadline on it, order some products (yes, you heard me), sell some products, make a list, and start contacting people. The people that mind don’t matter and the people that matter don’t mind.
August 12th, 2007 at 8:59 am
I will not whine!
I’ll not complain!
I’ll not blame!
But I’ll not stop too - I’ll not stop WORKING!!
Alticor has no system!
Alticor never taught me to deal with people!
Alticor doesn’t teach me time management, wealth management and all other 300 million things my system teaches me!
Then what does Alticor offer?
An oppurtunity that has stood the test of time!
Then what does Alticor offer?
a simple tenet : Freedom, Family, Hope and Reward!
I don’t know what it offers more!
I have read many books from my system - but I still like ‘Compassionate Capitalism’ a lot!
I have heard a lotta tapes from my system - but I like the ‘Four Winds’ by Rich DeVos!
I saw a lotta of leaders but I never saw anyone like Rich and Jay!
Everytime we offer this oppurtunity to others we must remember that we are holding their dreams, their aspirations and their hopes in our hands!!
And I believe that’s big responsibility - much bigger than these systems or prices or tools or all the negative out there!
At such times I don’t want our hands to tremble!
So keep the focus on bigger issues and outgrow all the petty ones!
If I have to choose between a man and the God who made that man, I’ll always choose God!
If I have to choose between Alticor and the leaders Alticor created, guess whom I’ll choose?!!!
August 12th, 2007 at 9:37 am
This is obviously a very passionate time for all IBO’s of Quixtar. I personally have been involved in the Team business for over 2 years. When I saw the business plan I google searched The Team and read the all garbage online about ALL the Quixtar organizations. It was very clear….overpriced products and the tool business were the issues. The “stacking ” issue is a Quixtar issue not an FTC issue. As a matter of fact it was condoned until The Team became the dominate organization in Quixtar. Everyone needs to read the lawsuit The Team filed. If in fact The Team has evidence that the leaders of Quixtar said those statements, then Quixtar is in violation of THEIR 1979 FTC agreement. This could be the undoing of Quixtar because of THEIR actions. I personally would not want to be part of an organization who admittedly keeps the prices inflated to pad the pockets of the Billionaire owners at my expense! It’s all about integrity!
August 12th, 2007 at 10:50 am
In response to Bridget 129
” Not all stacking is against the rules–for example, it may make sense for family members to be sponsored under each other. But TOTAL strangers?”
In my situation in post 128, total strangers would be beneath each other… if you went with the logic of every person has to have known the person sponsoring them prior to being in this business, there would be no depth. Let me know if you don’t understand my example in post 128: when you have several leaders building a team all at once, you will have people that are just meeting for the first time sponsoring each other.
“This method benefits the upline. To say that you can’t sponsor a 2nd leg until you are 20 deep in your first leg?”
The Team does not teach this AT ALL!!
“Quixtar wants to make sure IBOs understand that stacking is optional, and that an IBO with only one leg will not be as profitable as an IBO with multiple legs.”
The Team teaches to make sure ALL new IBOs know all materials and building structures are suggestions… not mandatory…
I hope I have cleared up some confusion…
Orrin and Chris took a system that was working ok and made it work great, and has benifited more people now than ever before.
They took a tools business, brought it out of ‘darkness’ as something you did not talk about, (where the system owners and Diamonds and above made all the $$, the rest very little)… into the open, because it is the most fair out there. There hearts are right, wanting to take this great business and idea and making it main stream… to do this changes are needed…
August 12th, 2007 at 10:56 am
Perhaps, in the sea of confusion and name calling we will remember that a successful a timely solution is required to assure the future of many people within the Quixtar/Alticor family. For both sides of the argumment.
Splitting hairs with name calling, finger pointing, and blaming has never solved anything. We need the two parties involved to sit down and try to resolved this quickly as there are who’s future are on the line.
Again, it would be best if both sides sit down early next week to open the lines of communication before this disagreement get’s any uglier and any more people are hurt.
August 12th, 2007 at 11:12 am
This whole situation is extremely unfortunate for all of us and could get very messy, depending in large part on our focus and behavior. We are in a fishbowl of public opinion, and every word spoken here is spoken to MILLIONS of people, both in our business and outside it. Currently, most of us seem to be doing what the departed diamonds are depending on us to do–defending our positions LOUDLY and expressing opinions with only the barest amount of information to base them on–opinions that become translated as facts in the much larger court of public opinion. We have been down that road before and suffered for it. The questions we ought to be asking are:
$$ Why was this exodus timed as it was? The lawsuit wasn’t drawn up while they were all sitting at the IBOAI table, this was the result of calculated planning over a number of months.
$$ What would they gain by using “uncompetitive pricing” as the basis for the suit? could it be that the bruhaha that ensues will create the perception of overpriced Q* merchandise that will pre-empt the impact of the new pricing from Q* and work in favor of the new MLM? ?????
$$ What did TEAM have to lose by staying? Well, if you read the fine print at the bottom of the now published QBI on the site, you will see that accreditation is one of the requirements. If you also read the Quixtar Communication Platform that all accredited teams have to adhere to (http://www.quixtaraccreditation.com), could it be that some of those things would present a problem for the TEAM organization and leadership??
That said, the lawsuit has very little to do with the stated complaints, and everything to do with intelligent, well-timed and well-calculated positioning to put themselves (TEAM) in the best light, and keep us all from looking below the surface.
I, for one, would welcome ALL remaining TEAM IBO’S to hang in there with the rest of us, seek accreditation, and reap the rewards you so richly deserve!
We should all now be remembering the POWER OF THE POSITIVE in our words to transform our lives. I propose that we all stop participating in negative conversation, to avoid the backlash that will inevitably come. We all love this business, and the personal and financial rewards it brings with it–it’s time to strengthen the ties that bind and move forward shining our own light!
“If you think you know everything, you haven’t asked enough quesions!”
August 12th, 2007 at 11:44 am
It wasn’t the stacking that was illegal, it was how TEAM was doing it. They registered complete strangers on top of each other, who never met each other.
The part about “positioning” was TEAM taking credit for what Quixtar does.
I don’t know exactly what the tool issues were, but it appears the tools shown to prospects weren’t Quixtar approved, which is against the rules.
TEAM knows it will take less time to get out for 2 years and then prospect their IBO’s than go through the court system. All they wanted to do is create a wedge with Quixtar, hoping they would cave in. When Quixtar called TEAM’s bluff, they went to plan B and started the lawsuit.
Show me a TEAM blog, or any other tool system blog for that matter, that will take input from all sides of the conversation and display for all to see. THAT should tell you who is on solid ground, and it isn’t TEAM or the other tool systems.
August 12th, 2007 at 11:46 am
Friends and colleagues,
For those who are relying on a reading of what’s claimed or stated the Complaint to make a decision, may I suggest a contemplative read of Proverbs 18:17: “The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.”
I know this can be applied both ways, and that’s fine. Over the past few years I’ve done a lot of depth research related to the claims made in Complaint, and all I would advise is don’t be too hasty to resign your busineses… wait at least until your renewal comes up at the end of the year. Give this enough time to be able to clear personal emotions away from your final decision, and base it on ALL the facts and developments in the public domain by the end of the year.
You’ve got nothing to lose by being careful, thoughtful and patient in your due diligence… even if you think you already know enough.
Blessings,
August 12th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
STOP. Read and answer two questions. For all of you that keep bringing up the rules issues, while you’re right, keep in mind:
1) If Alticor has the power to enforce a restraining order, or to enforce rule-breaking, then why has it continued to ignore blatant continous bad business practice from other teams? Did you know some organizations preach religion, endorse politics, require system kits with startup, etc.
and
2) Ask yourself if TEAM is being made an example of and wether the bad practice from other teams will continue to be ignored.
Woodward doesn’t have the history with the corporation that some of the older people might.
I have nothing against a system, and nothing against Quixtar, but I wish systems wouldnt’ use psychological warfare tactics, and that Quixtar wouldn’t ignore complaints.
I’m excited about the transformation process, and I hope in 4-6 months there’ll be a new truly fresh begining.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Ok, short answers with no-malice.
The IBOAI was voted in by all IBOs as a collective to protect our interests independant of the corporation. Much of that power has been neutered over the years where the corporation can veto anything they say.
The IBOAI had a problem with the dealings of the corporation, and now they have been terminated…please just think about that and realize where that leaves each of you, regardless of where you sit on this heated issue.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
Oh and one more thing. Why is it that this transformation that is being touted as the best thing for the business was never communicated to the IBOs from the corporation? Even though it drastically affects my business, I had no idea it was happening until this all blew up. Doesn’t sound like dealings with great integrity to me…
August 12th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
wow - this is nuts. Has no one ever done a price comparison? I have them in black and white - and the Access Business Group products consistantly BLOW away the store bought ones - even from WalMart! AND - comparing SA8 to Tide is not apples to apples - SA8 SHOULD be compared to the enviro friendly brands! If you do that it’s even a bigger savings with the Access Business Group products!
I’m excited that Amway/Quixtar is not taking this lying down - the slander of calling this a Pyramid after so many years of Orinn and others being involved…. I can tell you from first hand experience - the people at the top do NOT make all the money! It’s the people who do the work! Unless of course you don’t create your business legitimately and you involve yourselves in illegal STACKING - hmmmm - maybe you should be tried for CREATING an illegal system of “business” and lying to others to benefit yourselves.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
#158 YankeeIBO…
When you say, “we all love this business”, it made me think, “which business?”
The TEAM’s business is not the Quixtar business. That’s the issue.
So again, I ask, as I did in #130, why did the members of TEAM sign contracts with Quixtar when becoming IBOs? If they are not going to follow the rules, then I don’t get it.
If they aren’t going to use and sell the products, then why be a part of the Quixtar opportunity?
Why did the founders of TEAM use Quixtar for purposes that it wasn’t intended?
That is the Quixtar business. We use and sell products. If that’s not the business the TEAM wants to be a part of that’s fine.
If the founders of TEAM would have quit the Amway/Quixtar business years ago, stayed inactive for six months, and then started their leadership/motivation business, we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now.
Instead, they are going for the drama—for speculations that you state in your comment.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
There are 3 sides to every story. In this case, TEAM, Alticor/Quixtar/Amway, and the TRUTH which lies somewhere in between all this mud slinging and miscommunication. The resolution is simple…TEAM and it’s downline want out. You, Alticor, by your own words want to see them out. FINALLY…an agreement! Doesn’t sound like a problem to me. Let them go and get down to the business you say you handle with integrity. If their downline wants to support you in the future…they can find a diamond organization they would like to reup with…don’t contact them, it’s not your responsibility by your own rules of conduct. Remember, they are INDEPENDENT business owners. Let them make their own decisions. My family have been devote product user even though the products ARE over priced. However, based on this slinging campaign of yours our impressions of your company have changed. Therefore, our LOS is cancelling thier ditto order effective immediately. If more IBO’s do that, perhaps you will see the effects of your unprofessionalism in the only way the Devos and VanAndle families can comprehend….$$$$$$’s. Also, do NOT contact me directly as it is against the rules.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
To all you Quixtar loyals I suggest you wake up. Some of the things I have been reading have obviously have been written by ibo’s that have not been out showing the plan.It sounds more to me like someone who is defending a bad decision.Orrin and Chris and the other leaders are not on a personal quest. They went in to improve conditions for ALL ibo’s.When I persnally show plans the thaught of mentioning Am-Way is the death gargle of the plan.Quixtar/Am-Way built that reputation not Orrin and Chris.I have been on the TEAM for 2 years and I have never seen anything to be ashamed of.What I know for sure is that I constantly have to answer for all of the scamway reports everybody has heard of never TEAM. I beleive that Am-Way is drinking a leathal dose of poisen by telling us to leave.If you want us to leave let us go now.When this over the TEAM will still be standing, but I am not so sure about Am-Way.I believe with Quixtar out of our way we will go to tens of millions of people.AS joe said LETS GO!!!!!
August 12th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
#131 Tex
I think a whole bunch of points I’ve been saying for the past 5 years have been validated in the past few days.
It is you who needs to re-evaluate things. Do you understand all this?
Do you understand the implications?
August 12th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
Just finished rereading our history and how we fought off England with their ideas of contolling our free trade with the world. If England would have communicated and not controled we would never had, had to sink their tea boat, and thus avoided the loss of many lives.
Quixtar is not lead by free enterprisers anymore, they are run by lawyers, who love going to court, because thats what they do….Where have all the leaders gone, they are not staying in a broken business, their gone…..
August 12th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Coming from Team5K, we were the 2nd accredited team in Quixtar which was a 2 year process. I believe Chuck was helping TEAM with that. Our leader was of integrity and well thought of by Quixtar as were the others on the TEAM. These were not just everyday Diamonds.
Why would they do this? They have a dream with a belief so strong and so burning that they are willing to risk everything they have in terms of freedom, monetarily and reputation in order for the CHANCE to pursue it. How many of us can say we built the business with that intensity. To me, that is what being Diamond is about. Did they do it for greed? I think not. I believe where they promised to take us wasn’t working with Quixtar. I don’t know about you, but Quixtar wasn’t my dream, just the results. I believe the companies opinion is pretty much stated in the title of this blog; “Just Go, Team”. That means all of us that are on the TEAM. (Kind of sounds like a release to me)
This is about all of our dreams and freedom. I ask you this question. Are we going to be “Border Bully’s” in their quest for the dream or are we going to be champions and help them through the “Land of Giants”. There is not one of them that would ever leave us in tough times.
History has shown when times get tough for leaders; their followers will often leave them to the wolves. Not this time, just tell me when and where Chuck.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Interesting that folks think only an upline benefits from using Team approach to business building (a concept that is described in SA-4400 Team, copyright 2007 Quixtar Inc with CR #17851)
Would someone care to explain how official Quixtar form prepared for Team use be construed as “illegal practices”? The mothership condoned it, folks! If the ONLY place it is deemed “illegal” is in Corporate documentation crafted to protect the self-same party at the expense of the other - be very careful calling that “illegal” …
Wonder how Corp will feel about having their current “standard Operating Practices” held up to the earlier findings … like self reporting of customer volume to meet the 10 client rule … and where did the “approval” for $100 sales or 50PV sales come under same scrutiny …
Interesting that Corp chooses to pull the slapperoo in month # 12 of FY qualification isn’t it? For those who don’t comprehend what that means, it affects all Q-12, Emerald, Diamond, growth and other bonuses used to incentivize higher level pins to continue to grow their communities — the ONE area that Quixtar really does NOT have a handle on. Where will the money from bonuses “confiscated” end up?
Is this the finance of the expanded FY08 QBI program?
I’ve heard it said time and again that width creates immediate profitability and depth produces long term security. Dexter Yager became the largest IBO by perfecting depth techniques suitable for the business opportunity that existed when he was in active building mode … to facilitate product pickup and downline distribution, having only a few folks come to pickup at each level made 6-4-2 (later 9-4-2 & 9-6-3) a workable system, albeit tedious.
Now, direct delivery to each IBO makes the concept unneeded - if you had to move product hand to hand through 50 levels of depth, it might take months to accomplish.
Techniques change - principles remain.
Letting someone who changes buying habits receive what amounts to a growing personal rebate will prove the community building works, and they can develop a second organization (and beyond) to improve profitability - meantime they can hone their interpersonal skills while they apprentice in depth with the leader … show me exactly how increasing their personal rebate is a bad thing?
When someone says only the leader profits from depth, I’d simply ask … who benefits from going 20 wide, and creating a structure that cannot be supported for long? Could that be why many folks who were sponsored in a width blitz fail? To the tune of 87%, say? Would those folks have a “bad taste” in their mouth?
Continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results - is the definition of what?
Take a look at sales growth figures for last 4 years in NA, and couple that with Corp’s figures on retailed products % — you’ll understand why the bile was spewed from Ada.
In closing — Rich and Jay started their Ada enterprise whet it became clear that their supplier was not acting in their best interests. Who would have benefited from a non-compete clause unilaterally inserted in the last months of their existing contracts? You know the answer.
Whatever happened to the concept of Compassionate Capitalism and letting the best idea win in the Free Enterprise system?
If Corp didn’t think there might be another idea more acceptable to the marketplace, do you think they’d be as vituperative?
August 12th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Bridgett–#165
That’s exactly the point I am making in my third question. If they would not or could not be approved for accreditation, then the entire organization is cut off from the new QBI. How do you think that was going down at the top, knowing they would have to tell their downline why they are left out in the cold when it comes to all the new money?
The accreditation provision is a major move on the corp’s part to address the issue of rules violations by trying to get voluntary compliance without having to resort to terminations–that step is an absolute last resort, BECAUSE of the potential it has to create negative PR among outsiders who don’t know enough about our business to evaluate the issues fairly–as well as insiders in the same position.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
My favorite part of the lawsuit is on page 17/18 regarding an email Orrin sent Rob Davidson on April 6, 2006:
“Our team is going crazy with XS and the protein bars due to competitive price and value.”
The team was going crazy because the products are EDIBLES. High consumption rate, able to show in public, appealing to everyone (man, woman, and child).
Not because of the pricing.
XS Energy Drink is not competitively priced with other “energy drinks”. It appeals to those that want a high-quality product.
And the protein bars are not competitively priced–the old or current ones.
Kind of funny (and revealing) that the two products Orrin singles out as being competively priced (and that his TEAM was moving), when the whole lawsuit is claiming over-priced products are the problem.
(Good thing the Corp. offers 1,000+ of products to choose from–and not just one or a handful like other companies. Buy and sell what works for you, and leave the rest on the shelf.)
August 12th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
I have read posts on this blog with interest, and honestly, some sadness. Sadness for the “tape/CD speak” I hear coming through loud and clear. I sincerely hope at some point that these people who have been manipulated by the Tool Pushers realize that products are not hard to buy if you haven’t first given all of your money to a “system” where only the top of the heap make money. It is simple to do the math; how many IBO’s versus how many made it to the “top” of the tool business?
This is my opinion.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
sorry if anyone has already responded to #130..
Members of the TEAM have been doing that for over a year now. We wanted to be strict about it in relation to the way we build. Only platinums and above can input registrations and they will not do it until the paperwork is signed and faxed.
Also, in response to #18 and #79..
I had actually spoken directly with Bo Short about his decision to leave Quixtar. Has anyone else done that. Anyway, the facts are that while he might have been right about pricing issues with Quixtar, he lied in reference to the amount of profits the TEAM makes on the tool side of the business. Not one person outside the TEAM knows anything about how tool compensation works in TEAM. You would have admiration for these leaders if you only knew. You would also admire them for what they are doing and ultimately follow them to creating the largest retailer in the country. But maybe you wouldn’t… because your just like Amway.. you’re only concerned about becoming the pharaoh of your own pyramid instead of building a TEAM in which everyone shares in the profits. ..just my opinion.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
What would happen if every IBO who has become entrenched in the “tool system” really stopped and thought this whole issue through? Do yourself a favor tonight; take 2 hours, and just add up the money, time, and expense for all of your “training system”, then be honest with yourself; have you made any profit? If you aren’t getting money from tools by being in the profit sharing plan, your answer is obvious.
Lastly, the thing that really stuck in my craw was the reference to Moses, saying to the Pharoah “let my People go.” How dare they get God mixed up in this; they aught to be ashamed of themselves for that!
August 12th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
When I found out about the termination of Orrin Woodward and other TEAM members from the e-mail that Quixtar sent to me I called Quixtar. The woman that answered the call informed me of the situation. In the conversation she said it was for illegal stacking, that for some time the business material was not being okay with Quixtar and that they were portraying Quixtar as part of the TEAM’s business and not the other way around.I also asked about the name change to Amway. She confirmed it. I am against it. I would not have become an IBO if it was called Amway when I became an IBO. Years ago my brother was an Amway IBO. He approached me and I refused because of the stigma that Amway has. When I showed the plan, many people asked me if this was Amway and that if it was then they were not interested. You have to have known for some time of their activities. The Tuesday night meetings along with the monthly seminars and quarterly seminars have not changed since I became an IBO about one year ago. From people that I have talked to they have been the same for years. As long as the money was rolling in you kept quiet. You were complicate in their actions. Because of you not informing me in a timely manner of their possible wrong doings my reputation and business as an IBO are at stake. I reserve the right to stay an IBO with Quixtar or join another MLM business if I so choose without having to wait the 6 month waiting period
August 12th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Ditto 133
August 12th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
The facts!
Team plantiffs assert that Quixway has been operating an illegal pyramid since the late 90’s.
Why didn’t they tell us! GREED!
Seminar after seminar we were told this was the greatest business on the planet, it was going mainstream, that it was exploding, well it’s exploded all right….in the faces of these plantiffs.
How many millions of dollars did these plantiffs collect while knowing full well the business was illegal?
(supposedly)
They didn’t have any trouble cashing those checks for many years…while signing new people up in an illegal business.
Cars, houses.diamond rings …all bought in part with money recieved through an illegal pyramid??
Give to ceasar what is ceasar, are these men of God or men of gold?
What are these leaders going to do with all of their ” ill gotten gains”.
Are they still cashing those fat Quixtar checks?
WWJD?
Pricing issues?..We were taught by these same plantiffs ….The prospect that questions prices ” doesen’t understand the business” and was laughed at as they drove away. “Prices are irrelevant….the question is can you get rich doing this: is the battle cry on Consumer Rebellion.
August 12th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Wow. I never thought that I was associated with a company that would post such a playground statement as this one. I am extremely dissapointed and ashamed as a result Quixtar’s lack of character and decency. Don’t you understand that millions of people have been edifying the corporation everyday? You must have someone at the company that could generate a more responsible comment than that! You should be ashamed of yourselves! The educational system alone has been so beneficial and empowering to my family and I, and has made my life much better to say the least. On the other hand, some of the highly over priced products haven’t had the same affects. Finally, to all of the great, genuine, hard-working people with their hearts in the right place, better things will come of this astonishing development. Lower the prices on some of the exclusives!
August 12th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
Many people are saying that this is a violation and some say that this is a about time… Why do Team and other groups start and then get so much traction? Well, knowing of Dexter Yeager and those pioneering types like him, I am astounded that such a vitriolic letter was posted by a corporation of one of its top sales groups.
Dexter’s story is famous. He didn’t get any “help” (no, a couple high color pamphlets is not really help, come on…) building his “business” (how can it really be called a business if you can be ‘terminated’, whew, there goes more credibility…) especially from Amway/Quixtar. He was told to go and sell and make US rich… He was/is a GREAT saleman. BUT, it was obvious to him that he could help more people if they could but be trained. So train he did. And he became legendarily successful. There was profit from training? And then? There is, and should be, payment for good training anywhere. McDonald’s is astoundingly successful ONLY because they train like no other!
So, because of Quixtar/Alticor’s lack of direction or ability to duplicate success, groups like TEAM and Orrin Woodward – out of desperation - create huge organizations with tremendous sales results. Sales? Yes, Sales. Walmart, the greatest retailer ever, only advertises to ME and I go purchase what I need. So, if TEAM advertises to TEAM and they purchase what they need, is that wrong with that model? To the tune of $7+ Billion for Alticor? Amway/Quixtar/Alticor’s bad name will always stick, and it is the fault of the corporation no matter what slick face they try to paint on the slick surface. Because they negligently leave it up to me and the other Average Joe’s to flounder around and try to help ourselves and our families any way we can. And when we (or Orrin helping me) do it correctly, and then help others build it correctly, we are then TERMINATED. Wow, good luck with that strategy, Alticor. Where are Rich and Jay when you need them??
August 12th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
My Dear Patty…
I added up the time and money spent on my formal “education”, uh 8 years, $165,000, a near broken marriage, three ulcers, 6 job changes… and that has netted me about 8% percent over the guy with a lot of industry experience… Come on, you be honest. I pay $2800 three times a year to stay caght up on training. Dang, those guys training are getting a lot of dough…! I haven’t accomplished a thing in Quixtar and I have spent less than $1300 a year on tools and training. You know what they train me about? Honesty, Integrity, good relationships, yeah I know, old-fashioned crap… George Washington was such a dunce. And, to think of it, the training from TEAM has netted me more at my profession than any “traditional” school ever did.
Oh, I agree, a dumbed down America deserves it’s coming Third World status.
August 12th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
What about the BAND OF EIGHT -
The BAND OF EIGHT (IBOAI members) resign and what does Alticor do…it demonizes Mr. Woodward and diverts our attention to the real issue by yelling, “stacking” or “tools”. Keeps us from focusing on the real issue.
They don’t talk about the BAND OF EIGHT representing thousands of IBO’s saying “since you won’t listen to us, then let us go without punishing us.”
This conflict is hurting all of us. We can’t hide this from any prospect who does a minimal search. Even those NOT associated with the Band of Eight will suffer negative consequences to their business.
The best thing is to get this resolved as quickly as possible. More will be lost through the negative publicity than will be lost by letting them out of the non-compete clause.
I don’t have much hope, Alticor stubborness so often seems to prevail over listening to the IBOs.
Moses told Pharoah..”Let my people go.” He didn’t listen.
The founding fathers told King George…”Let my people go.” He didn’t listen.
The Band of Eight told Alticor…”Let my people go.” They won’t listen.
August 12th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
Clarification to post #153: I’m sure everyone figured it out, but I still need to clarify what I meant. I meant I am sorry to be part of the Yager organization. I am not sorry to be part of Quixtar/Amway.
Also, no matter what anybody says, stacking strangers on top of strangers is IBO Plan manipulation. Isn’t it strange that TEAM leaders wanted new IBOs to be only 2 legs wide and 20 to 50 deep, but they could go as wide as they wanted with very secure legs that someone else had built for them. Sounds self-serving to me. I think A/Q did the right thing.
People say that building it “right” takes longer and is not secure. Everything takes time and nothing is secure. You work your job 8 to 10 to 12 hours a day and you can be fired tomorrow.
It’s the Nutrilite stuff that is way out of whack. So don’t take it. Then start going to the doctor because you’re sick all the time. It is irritating that the Nutrilite stuff is so expensive, but when I don’t take it, I have all kinds of physical problems. Then I have great big doctor bills. Then I REALLY have an attitude check. So DWI. (Deal With It.)
One other quick thought: Maybe 65% of people say they want to own their own business, but saying it and actually looking unconditionally is two different things. There is a small percentage that is looking for this type of business and even a smaller percentage that will actually do it. Most all of my business has come from a product lead-in. So start doing it right and quit your whining.
August 12th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
I have read the comments posted on the blog by those who support the leaders of Quixtar and those who support the leaders of the Team. First, let me say that I am an active IBO with a very successful retail and networking business. I am proud that the leaders of Quixtar have decided to clean shop. Everyone who signs up to be an IBO checks a box or signs a form that they saw the plan and will comply with the rules of conduct. As an IBO you should get the 72 pages rule of conduct booklet. Stacking, signing people up without their knowledge and not servicing clients are against the rules of conduct. It is also identity thief to take someones SS# and sign him/her up without his/her knowledge. The last time I registered someone, I needed his SS#. If someone is doing this he/she should be legally punished.
I yes I would agree that some prices might be high to some people. But this does not justified breaking the rules. Quixtar’s products are not 99 cents products. No one complains when they by Gucci, Coach, Tommy, Nike and name brand items. Why complain about quality product? Their are many people out their who want quality and are will to pay for it. If you look you will find them. I know because I was a customer for 2 years before I became and IBO.
Second as for those who think that Quixtar’s comments ware hashed. It needed to be. The members of the IBOA board who should know better. They were trusted with a very important responsibility. If they did the crime they should do the time. I am sorry for the people in their business who were innocent. I am sure Quixtar is working to help you.
For those who believe that the comments were written in haste. Remember that the leaders of Quixtar have tons of lawyers to give them legal advice. These are millionaires, they don’t make a move without legal advice.
To answer the question what who Jesus do? Remember he kicked the merchants out of the temple. So don’t mix religion with what is going on now. To do so weaken your position. You might be upset because you are a part of The Team. But before you write your comments in haste, think about those are are not apart of the Team and were instructed on how to build the business morally. I would advise all IBOs to read the Rules of Conduct (especially the code of ethics on page 1) and if you have questions about anything in it call the business department. I advise my IBOs to call the business department if they have questions I cannot answer.
One last thing, this is a great business. It has helped many people. I am not just talking about the platinums or diamonds. I am talking about people who needed to make $200, $500 or $1000 extra a month to take care of their families. Don’t let people who are unethical spoil it for everyone because when they get caught they bad mouth Quixtar.
August 12th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Bridgett #165
If I had been in the business a few years and was making $5K per month and the rules were changed to say that I must not do any other MLM for 6 months or I will be sued by the corporation, what do you think I would do????
Come on, do you honestly think anyone would give that up???
August 12th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
Absolutely ridiculous… Quixtar “terminated” Orrin Woodward because he built his business by “stacking”??? Alticor/Quixtar/Amway gave their blessing to him to build that way, and now that he has success, the corporation wants everyone to think that he is building unethically… Sounds like a whole bunch of hypocrisy to me…
August 12th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
While the products of Quixtar are of high quality. The prices make the purchasing of the product from limited to nothing. I’ll buy XS products until my contract with Quixtar ends.
Just thinking outloud:
I am extremely proud of the business model out there producing a win-win situation. This is called putting your money(investment/effort) where your mouth is, walking the talk, and being ethical/being honest.
I was one of the ones looking for something. I’ve done Amway, I’ve been in an Amway afflitated business with Quixtar. I was in an internet “portal” business (buy mailing lists, paying a small fee every month, VERY expensive no results there at all).
But I didn’t find WHAT I was looking for until June of this year. This is the business model to be proud of. It is legal, it is fair, it is growing and it is leading the Consumer Rebellion.
As a single mother still paying on a mortgage, I can’t justify spending that kind of money every month for the products I love. Wish Quixtar lowered their prices!
August 12th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
Patty #176 how many kids do you know that get student loans to go to college and drop out and never use the information the received in college? Or go for several years 4+ and get a degree in something they never use? Does that make sense to you?
Have you read Robert Kiyosakis BUSINESS SCHOOL and CASH FLOW QUADRANT books???
Or is this ONLY supposed to be personal direct selling product business for personal cash profit; which if that is the case, look at the history of Amway…the present products are NOT competitive to make it a self supported(no other income stream) business.
August 12th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
I am amazed at anyone calling Quixtar products cost comparative! I agree the SA8 and the LOC are good products, and in some areas are competitive at IBO cost. However, the vast majority of the of the products are not sellable at retail! The only product which I can agree is cost effective is the XS line. I cannot buy a similar energy drink for less money (again, at IBO cost). Anyone who believes otherwise is self deceived. Orrin and Chris built a massive business legally with Quixtars approval until they became so big they requested better pricing. This is nothing more than Quixtar management fearing The Teams Leadership! I couldn’t be more excited! In the words of Quixtar…..Just Go, Team…..and build the largest most profitable MLM this world has ever seen!
August 12th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
Also stop complaining about the system your group plugs into. If you dont want the tools dont get. it.
August 12th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
Way to go people - great that you have had the guts to go the distance and pull the plug on those who are not following the rules. This sends a very strong message to the other players. Hope that this strong stance continues, both in the USA and other markets (where I am from). Keep it up!
August 12th, 2007 at 5:37 pm
Way to go Quixtar!!!!
To all “Team” members. I appologise to the fact that all of you have been misled for so long. Being an IBO in Michigan for over 5 years now I have seen and felt the distruction the “Team” has left in its wake. Most of you neither know or care to hear the real truth. Bottom line is Orrin, Chris, and the others listed in the lawsuit would never have lived the life they have, or been able to accomplish the things they have without Quixtar/Amway.
Orrin and the rest just got too big for their own good, and started to believe their own pres-clipings. They forgot where they came from and got too greedy. Being a Diamond was not enough for them, they wanted to be like Jay and Rich, and start their own, competing MLM. Sighting stupid issues like, price, and you cant retail anything is obsured. Amway started as a retail door to door business and they were and still are a very very successful retail business.
As far as you creating a profit from Quixtar, it is understandable why “Team” members never made any $. The structure in which your “leaders” tought only lined their pockets, not yours. Had you built your business properly, with width, you yourself would have seen your profits grow. The main thing is, if you choose to stick with those “leaders”, well, good luck on your next 30 years. Find a reputable team and stick with Quixtar..
August 12th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Again, I am a diamond’s (WAS NEVER UNDER TEAM)daughter and again…sorry …I am putting my few cents worth in. NEVER have ANY of the diamonds and above, that I know of,brought the people who sit in the seats into the pricing structures of the tool side of the business. and YES there are 2 sides of EVERY BUSINESS. Every business needs a support system and every business needs something they sell. The TEAM is the only group I have ever seen bring those (in the actual seats at functions and not just the heavy hitters) into the tool profit side of the business. I have never seen a diamond and I know many many that shared ANY of the function money with the low man on the pole like TEAM has. Quixtar themselves went to Orrin not happy about how much he was giving back to the people and Orrin responded “what you want me to keep it for myself?”- it begins to make you think. AS far as pricing, yes the core line was great, yes they were priced well and were of high quality and you could retail many of them and make a good profit but not for many years-there became much less of them and the PV/BV was lowered. And diamonds across the country have spoken their concerns among themselves and the corporation for a long time. TEAM did not start out wanting to start a new company- for years they have fought the pricing structure ALONG WITH many other diamonds who have no affiliation with TEAM. As far as stacking- Quixtar looked long and hard at the concept- they wanted no problems with the government or anyone else questioning the legitimacy- they approved it and even printed their own literature explaining the concept and the acceptability of it and allowed TEAM to do it for 8 or so years. The question is- why did Orrin along with many other diamonds who NEVER HAD worked with Orrin until very recently say ENOUGH?? because no one on the IBO board (who you clearly respected and voted in to represent you) was being heard by the corporation- that means you weren’t being heard! It was a common complaint from many diamonds when they came back from conferences with the corporation that “there is no one there who cares about the guy in the living room anymore” and hello…if you agree on nothing else the name change alone should speak volumes when more than 75% of the living room warriors don’t want it yet they give no ear to that.
August 12th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Just to let everyone know in todays paper here in New York there was a ad for tide detergent at K-Mart and for 78 wash loads the price was$30 and you have to go stand in the stupid line.Not to mention drive to the store find a parking spot waste my time for a inferior product when i can purchse SA8 for $31 for 150 wash loads.But oh yeah i forgot we aren’t competitive.Those people don’t even know 3rd grade math!
August 12th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
All you guys who are defending Amway’s rules on stacking (Chaitanya, Bridgett) clearly don’t know the whole story. Please re-read comment #171. (Thank you Geary!) Quixtar and the IBOAI approved the way Team builds depth; they even published an alternate version of the SA4400 and the BSMAA specifically for Team and their depth-building. And now it’s “illegal?” I don’t buy it.
DG #89, your comments about cheaper products coming are a joke. Don’t you realize that Quixtar has been promising cheaper products to the IBOAI for a couple of years, and they are supposed to come out this fall. When the board saw these new, “competetively-priced” products last week, half of them resigned. Because Quixtar had been lying all along. And if you have been able to retail products to non-IBO’s, then bless your heart. Those of you who claim Quixtar’s prices are competitive, well, I have some swamp land in Mississippi I’d love for you to take a look at.
August 12th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Alticor PR, I have been an IBO for close to 10 years now and have always been extremely proud of the company and products I have represented. Regardless of what the critics might say, I knew I represented a company that was professional and full of integrity. That is until today. I am in NO WAY affiliated with the TEAM or anyone else who has been “terminated.” I’m in a completely different line of sponsorship. But I am highly disgusted with how things have been handled so far in particular your “unofficial statement.” Why even post anything? Until you’re ready to make your official statement. You say you’ve worked hard to protect your reputation? What a great way to undo all of your hard work - post an unprofessional hate filled “unofficial” statement on your blog that can be directly linked to from Alticor. Please reconsider how you release information to the public in the future.
August 12th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
BRIDGETT, who are you and what makes you an authority? Are you an IBO or are you employeed by Quixtar/Alticor?
By the way, Jim is a friend of mine (he is a Founders Platinum, believe it or not) and we just connected with TEAM in February. I believe in Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady the same way I believed in Rich DeVos and Jay VanAndle the first time I met them in the 70’s. I have seen real growth and excitement for the first time in over 30 years.
You should read the lawsuit like I have; by the way, it’s 47 pages long - not something you put together in an hour the way you infer. Do this before you make another post. Do this before you make any statements about the Woodwards and Bradys or any of the other board members that are involved.
The Amway Distributors Association board was put in place in 1959 to protect us from the stuff that’s going on right now. But the DeVos and VanAndle kids are not happy with the board’s requests so it looks like they want to change the rules. What would the Jay’s father think (he’s deceased) and what does Dick’s father think (I believe that he lives in Florida), they stood for integrity!
Since 1999, Amway/Quixtar has stacked new recruits in the organizations of select Diamond IBO’s. I had a problem with this when I rejoined Amway then and I still have a problem with it now. The way you talk about Orrin and Chris I think you should have a problem with it also. Just call corporate and ask; act like you are a newly interested person and try to figure out the logic of who they refer you to like I did in 1999.
Until our group joined TEAM, my volume was also up and down. Over 80% of my group never purchased another “Quixtar” product after the initial purchase. Just look at the figures, with all of Quixtar’s registered IBO’s and average monthly bonus less than $120. Today, with the TEAM approach to consumption of edibles which are priced reasonably, every IBO gets some type of bonus within a couple of months. Win/Win.
It seems that Alticor is on a one way street. Price fixing to determine the WS Price - completely out of line with the market place. Who’s greedy? The people that put everything on the line like Woodward or the founders of Alticor.
Alticor, get your act together. To the kids of Rick DeVos and Jay VanAndle get rid of the “Jay Factor”! Give us IBOs a break, you’re doing an injustice to the legacy of your fathers. By the way I’ve never received an email from Quixtar the way you stated in your first post.
August 12th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
This whole ordeal may sound sudden and shocking, but it is not surprising to me. It was brewing for the past handful of years.
Orrin and his leaders at one time were very loyal to the Quixtar company. During the early 2000’s they spent tens of thousands of dollors from their personal funds to hire one of the most experienced law firms in the country in dealing with MLM disputes and rulings to help them set up a bulletproof and fair tool distribution system. This was also the time that TEAM came under focused and intense web attacks. I believe during this time they were made aware of the cracks in the Quixtar business plan and implementation from a legal and ethical standpoint.
Orrin approached the company multiple time asking them to address the issues that exposed their business model to vicious attacks that smacked of truth and cause needless harm and difficulty to new IBO’s. He didn’t do it for his own wallet, for it was already full. Upon their flat out “we are untouchable” responses, TEAM informed Quixtar that until they decided to take action to support the IBO’s, they would no longer use and promote the Quixtar brand name. Of course, when you can do no wrong, why would you change? Over the next several years the TEAM took deliberate and successful steps to build their industry clout and volume in order to force Quixtar’s hand. Yes, they continued to use the Quixtar shopping site in the hope that the changes could and would be made. There were many promises and assurances made, but unfortunately no actual changes. I can remember the excitement in the leaders when they hinted at the changes that were possible and promised. Recently the TEAM leaders began to realize the foxhole mentality of the company.
The mistake Quixtar made is assuming that Orrin and TEAM were focused on building their personal businesses and portfolios. The motivation for these leaders is a vision far greater than Quixtar has been or ever will be. When Orrin and TEAM talk about competing with the largest retailers on earth, they aren’t blowing smoke or telling stories. In truth, in order for Quixtar to make the appropriate changes, it would literally have to submit to the leadership and vision of TEAM, which it obviously has far too much pride and profit at stake.
Ask yourself a question. Why would 8 IBOIA board members with and average of 27 years of experience in networking and who are undoubtedly millionaires put their own businesses at risk to take a stand like this? Greed? Lack of character? Bullheadedness? If you are looking for those qualities, look in the other direction. There is only one word that explains it: VISION.
I wish all the Quixtar IBO’s well. There was and still is great opportunity there for those 5% who decide to develop uncommon tenacity and activity.
Orrin and TEAM simply took the appropriate steps to move their vision forward. I don’t know what exactly will come about in the next two months, but I didn’t sign up for Quixtar, I signed up for the vision painted by TEAM. My choice is obvious to me.
August 12th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
One more thing. If you need a movie to explain what just happened, watch “A Bug’s Life”
August 12th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
I joined Quixtar a year ago. I’ve had 7 new IBO’s in the last 60 days, but no more. I’m not bringing people I care about into this acidic environment. Sales requires positive motivation. Some of these post sound so angry and bitter, it’s not for me.
Cancel my ditto!
August 12th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
THIS IS THE GREATEST BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY ON THE PLANET. WE HAVE ALL SEEN MANY CHANGES. BUT AS A BUSINESS OWNERS HOW CAN WE TAKE PRIDE IN WHAT WE HAVE OUR HANDS ON IF WE MISLEAD OTHER PEOPLE. WE CAN TELL PROSPECTS THAT WE WILL HELP THEM BUILD THIER BUSINESS. HOWEVER, IF THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO WORK FOR THEMSELVES WAY WOULD I WANT TO PUT ALL MY EFFORT HELPING THEM. I WOULD RATHER THEY DID NOT GET IN. BECUASE WHEN THEY DON’T MAKE ANY MONEY, THEY TELL EVERYONE IT DON’T WORK. WE ALL KNOW HOW NEWS LIKE THAT SPREADS. I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE 1000 PEOPLE IN MY GROUP. BUT IF I DID NOT PUT THEM IN, AND SOMEONE ELSE DONE ALL THE WORK PUTTING THEM IN FOR ME, WHO’S BUSNIESS IS IT. HOW COULD I BE PROUD OF WHAT I HAD WHEN I DID NOT DO THE WORK. HOW MUCH RESPECT WOULD MY UP-LINE OR MORE IMPORTANTLY MY DOWN-LINE HAVE FOR ME. MY WORD WOULD MEAN NOTHING. THAT BUSINESS DOES NOT BELONG TO ME. WE HAVE TO TRAIN OUR GROUPS HOW TO MOVE PRODUCTS, HOW TO CONTACT OTHERS, TO EARN IT THE OLDFASHTION WAY. WORK FOR IT. WE NEVER RESPECT ANYTHING THAT CAME TO EASY. I AM SURE WE ALL KNOW THAT. WHEN YOU TELL SOMEONE THAT YOU CAN GET IN HOLD YOUR SPOT AND WE WILL KEEP PUTTING PEOPLE UNDER YOU AND YOU WONT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING AND YOU WILL MAKE MONEY, THAT’S MISLEADING. I KNOW, BECAUSE IT HAPPENED TO ME. I HAD A IBO RECRUITRD OUT OF MY GROUP. HE WAS PROMISED THAT IF HE GOT IN THAT THEY WOULD BUILD HIS GROUP FOR HIM, THEN ONCE HE GOT 100 DEEP HE WOULD MAKE 3500 PER MONTH. HE BELIEVED IT. WHEN I TRIED TO EXPLAIN TO HIM THAT IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE, DO THE MATH, HE DID NOT BELIEVE ME.I TOLD HIM THAT EVEN IF EVERYBODY DID 400 PV IT CAN’T HAPPEN. HE SAID THAT ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS 50 PV AND SIT HOME, THAT’S WHAT HE WAS TOLD. HE KNEW IT TO BE TRUE BECAUSE HE SEEN THE CHECKS. SO, WITH IN A YEAR THEY ARE NOT MAKING ANY MONEY WHAT ARE GOING TO SAY. CALL ME SHOLLOW.
August 12th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
I find it hard to believe there is any credibility in Quixtar corporate statements that they tried to work with Woodword and Brady and then make derogatory statements over the signature of corporate comment. Obviously this has been a planned campaign to oust people who have tried to drag Quixtar/Amway into the 21st century and to work for the betterment of the opportunity for each IBO, not just the corporation and the founding families. Is it any wonder that Amway, and now Quixtar, has gained such a negative reputation in the minds of most of the populace North America.
August 12th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
My last post on this.
If it takes 2 years to settle this dispute, by the end of it there will be hundreds of links on the web about it. Anyone who does a web search on our business will have a negative impression of Quixtar. (The Band of Eight won’t escape unscathed either.)
And then at the end of it, we become burdened a name change to Amway that already has such a negative connotation in our culture. Trying to recruit downline will be like trying to recruit investors for Enron.
Alticor says positive changes are coming in the next couple of years. We’ll need more than positive changes. We’ll need a miracle.
Bye All
August 12th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
My goodness…
Don’t you people have anything better to do? The Ritz Carlton costs more than the Motel Six! A BMW costs more than a Chevy! NOBODY forces you to buy either.
The movement of products (hotel rooms, cars, soap, energy drinks or motivational materials) creates profit possibilities. So what!!!!
The idea is to conduct business legally and in the case of many IBO’s, morally.
This isn’t hard to figure out, just use some common sense…
ALL of these, so called leaders, became MEGA WEALTHY as the result of what they learned from this Amway, Alticor, Quixtar business model. But, just like so many throughout history… it’s never enough! So, they go ahead and “eat the apple…” Start my own gig and STEAL the business away from the one that “brought me to the dance.”
I’m sorry Orrin, but you are NOT Moses. These are not YOUR PEOPLE. These are Independent Business Owners.
But, even if you were Moses, the next stop is the desert…
August 12th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
“Just Go, TEAM” ?
That statement is very disrespectful to a lot of very good people whom your corporation has made countless millions of dollars on, but thankfully we’ve learned that we have the capacity to understand and forgive. It’s nice to be able to choose your attitude. The Team has a GREAT system that has for years managed to be the best leadership development machine in the industry - regardless of the ridiculously high prices on the website. You can’t go to a Team Major event without being overwhelmed by the sheer number of new Golds and Platinums every four months. All the greatest motivational, inspirational talks in the world don’t replace the value of pure logic - proof. The new Gold and Platinum recognition lines at St. Louis earlier this year were tremendous. “New Platinums, walk and wave. Make it quick!” I didn’t count, but would venture to guess they were literally in the thousands. You can’t poke a stick at that kind of growth, and be foolish enough to believe the critics that say TEAM people aren’t making money. Don’t be silly. There is simply no basis whatsoever to such statements.
The Q prices are the most obvious issue. I know of many TEAM-produced Silvers (several of whom never personally sponsored more than one person) who don’t even bother purchasing monthly even at the 25% rebate level. Yet, they’ll buy from Amazon.com or Overstock.com, etc… Mainstream America is looking to get a deal, that is just the way it is and always will be - particularly in creating communities online.
Big HUGS and heartfelt THANK YOU to the real LEADERS who are making strides to help put the system in place where we can take it mainstream with some fresh ideas with 2007 and beyond in mind. I’ll be there with you!
Amway, fresh, new idea? I’ve trembled at the thought of having an “AMWAY IBO” card in my wallet. Gag me with a stick! Quixtar, thanks for helping us get started, but it is time for us to part ways, whether we have to wait six months or whether you let us go courteously. You’ve been good, but good often gets in the way of GREAT!
Fired up, brotha’s and sista’s!! Blessed and Highly favored we are!!!
Thank you for putting this forum together, and not editing our posts helping us portray our true feelings. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and it is nice to see others’ too. GOD bless everyone whether you understand or not!
August 12th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
The TEAM training system has help me and my family get our lives on track far more than any money made through quixtar. We will follow the leaders of the TEAM on our jouney to millions of people.
August 12th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Guys, this whole thing is about the BOard being reduced to a figure head. Quixtar wants Control, over the tools and building methods, they want a piece of the training systems, a tariff if you will, which is why they started this “accredited” tools system B.S. in the first place., Quixtar wants total control, and has no real care for the “IBO” input, they are just another corporation now, This Revolution will Show Independent Business owners everywhere they can rise up and join a Leadership revolution. I stand with these courageous men who could have just stayed pat and raked in a few more millions before this model eventually imploded, however they drew a line in the sand and have revolted against an entintey no longer associated with true freedom. The revolution has begun, The Great 8 have set us free, the rest of the world just doesn’t know it yet.
August 12th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
New Platinum (#133),
You should have said “you’re weak”. Talk about weak, poor grammar. What is your point, except to call me the name “weak”?
August 12th, 2007 at 9:58 pm
Way to go Alticor! I am proud to be an IBO and equally proud the name is changing back to AMWAY.
August 12th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
The blog Alticore posted is a sure sign of the deterioration of the great company that was once started by two of the greatest men in our lifetime. It has left “Compassionate Capitalism” discusssed by Richard DeVos in his books and on his tapes released some years back. You “allowed” the Team to do their thing and to use their wisdom to create something real big where men and women could bring money into the hands of Godly people. You never listened when some of us complained about the Team when we heard of their successful way of bringing people who knew each other and could help each other into one Team before starting another Team. Back then we did not understand that Team was trying hard to help people be successful under very difficult situations like the name “Amway” and the high end priced products. We know now that Team leaders are true culture warriors. Alticore/Amway/Quixtar don’t try to pretend that you are cultural warriors because you have dropped out of being concerned about the culture we are in.
We the “over the years” people in your business deserve consideration and respect for our part in making you a big and successful corporation against all odds. We are not sponsored by Team people but have grown to love what they stand for. Alticore corporate executives: please bring the Team leaders back. Be fair with them and be willing to join the culture for success and for developing outstanding men and women to lead America. You need the Team and the Team needs you but the entire structure has to be brought down and rebuilt with reconcialiation, love and respect. YOU ALTICORE, AND YOU TEAM, CAN DO IT TOGETHER BECAUSE TOGETHER EVERYONE ACHIEVES MORE! Alticore: Don’t throw your kids out like they are nothing but an old cigarette butt. They were sent to you from a loving God and that is not the way His kids are to be treated.
August 12th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
rocket (#168),
You still haven’t said anything. Get specific.
August 12th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
#195 Question for you. I use to buy Tide all the time before getting involved in the business. I never saw Tide go for $30. What type of Tide was it and what K-Mart in New York. I would really like to look it up so that I can compare prices for myself.
August 12th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
I won’t get all sappy and long winded, it’s not worth it. This says it all…
“In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and
hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then
it costs nothing to be a patriot.” — Mark Twain
August 12th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
#198 Bruce
I had the same thoughts about Bridgette. I was wondering who she was to and if she didn’t work for the coportation. Glad you asked.
August 12th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
WOW!!
These TEAM loyalists are amazing. Why all the fuss? If Orrin wants to start his own MLM, good for him. This is America, land of the free. He is free to chase his dream to the level he sees fit.
Only one small problem; it’s called ethics. Thankfully, our laws aren’t completely corrupt… yet.
All Orrin had to do was leave the corporation quietly, with the same number of people that he joined with. That was the agreement that he agreed to. He could even keep the MILLIONS and MILLIONS of $$$$$ that he made with this so called; high priced, antiquated Amway business that he, all of a sudden, no longer agrees with.
“Pride cometh before the fall.” Capitalism has a dark side. It’s called pride and greed. I recommend everyone one the TEAM read Rich DeVos’s book “Compassionate Capitalism.”
Otherwise, good luck in the desert with your self proclaimed, Moses!
August 12th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
An underlying theme is that IBOs have been building communities and the corporation has not been. People follow people over the long term, who exhibited integrity, which fosters trust and a willingness to follow with confidence. These leader’s past and present actions are speaking boldly though the hearts of people, whose lives they have enhanced.
Acknowledged leaders of the IBOAI board have conducted themselves honorably vs Alticor’s tone exhibited in their blog.
Incidentally, these honorable men resigned first, but the corporation’s hireling attorneys a few hours later served these resigned IBOs with terminations so the corporation could twist the truth of how it went down.
It looks like this boils down to a fight over, who is in control. The field has rebelled as the colonies rebelled against King George. Of course there were some loyalists. But General George Washington foresaked all his assets to take a chance to free this country from enslavement from regulation without representation. I will follow men, who exhibit the character that the founder of our country had.
Good King Rich in Orlando takes profits disguised as COGS (cost of goods sold)to support the Amway Arena on the backs of a compliant and subservient field of Amway sales drones trained by the almighty and benevolent Amway.
As for me give me Free Enterprise away from another corporation run by the greedy. They have gone the way of the saying: Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts ABSOLUTELY!
August 12th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
At first, I thought the original posting on this blog was a little strong…
But, the more I read from these TEAM bloggers. The more sense it makes. JUST GO…
I do hope that top Amway leadership reaches out to those poor souls that are being led astray. It’s pretty obvious that the TEAM will not obey the court order, that would be too ethical. They are, after all, true patriots…
or was that true parrots?
August 12th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
We need to pull together and pray! All of Us leaders in TEAM know that Orrin is a Man of integrity. This is slander,and not true! They are just trying to steal Orrin’s community that He’s worked so hard to build! They can save a lot of money not paying all those they deleted!
“Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could”
How could Orrin (AND THE REST OF US)hide the fact that we use to sign our IBO’s up with Quixtar when in order to sign them up they had to sign Quixtar papers?
I could go on and on with countering this slander, but I’ll let the lawyers do it! I don’t want to waste my time. The fact stands, WE ARE GOING TO A MILLION AND BEYOUND W/O Quixtar!
Methods are many, principals are few, methods always change, principles never do!! I’ll let these people say it in their words…
Leadership is the capacity to translate vision into reality.
—Warren G. Bennis
Orrin and Chris are leaders! They are #1 @ building community’s online for 8 yrs running! This year will be no different!
Action without study is fatal. Study without action is futile. —Mary Beard
Time will either promote you or expose you. —Jeff Olson
The question we should be asking ourselves is: “Would I want to be sponsored by me?” —Jeff Olson
Excellence is doing a common thing in an uncommon way. —Booker T. Washington
People first, then money, then things. —Suze Orman
Example is not the main thing in influencing others—it’s the only thing. —Albert Schweitzer
From time to time we all need to be reminded, that if we just stay the course, we will reach our goals.
—Michael S. Clouse
Say only what you can prove. Be ready to prove everything you say. —Jerry Vass
Money always flows to the leader… If you want more money, simply become more of a leader.”
—Robert T. Kiosaki
He who refuses to embrace a unique opportunity loses the prize as surely as if he tried and failed.
—William James
Life is divided into three terms—that which was, which is, and which will be. Let us learn from the past to profit by the present and from the present to live better for the future. —William Wordsworth
Never complain about what you permit.—Mike Murdock
Growth is the process of responding positively to change. —Paul Harvey
You can observe a lot just by watching. —Yogi Berra (OR IN THIS CASE….READING!!)
Failure is only the opportunity to begin again more intelligently. —Henry Ford
Business is a lot like a game of tennis. Those who don’t serve well, end up losing. —Doc Anklam
They’ll tell you. “Quit now, you’ll never make it.” If you disregard that advice, you’ll be halfway there.
—David Zucker
August 12th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Brian #206
Come on “brotha”, get off the kool-aid!
How can you say “…your corporation has made countless millions of dollars” as if profit were some sort of nasty word? The very leaders that you hold in such high regard have made MULTIPLE MILLIONS from the same profit stream. Don’t be so narrow minded.
Remember Brian, 99% loyal is 100% disloyal. If Orrin and Chris have the capacity to leave the one that made them millionaires, how loyal do you really feel they will be to you?
Do what they’ve been preaching… THINK about it!!
August 12th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
I have never met a group of men and women who are religious, ethical, GREAT business leaders, care about others and will fight so WE can succeed. They have already ALL succeeded, they could just walk away and say, Well, I guess we are done, we have enough money, good by everyone. But they didn’t. They want us to succeed also right with them. They have taught us to be better people, helped marriages succeed, they have not just taught us how to make money, they have referred us to books that have everything to do with building our character and understanding other people, etc… If you are on the TEAM you know what I am talking about, if you are not on the TEAM, you are missing out. I am not the ONLY ONE who has said this but here it goes: “ORRIN FOR PRESIDENT”!
August 12th, 2007 at 11:11 pm
Eight board members don’t bring a class action lawsuit against the business they have been representing for years if they do not have concrete evidence to win the case. I hope they have enough proof to send the owners to prison.
August 12th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
#206 & #207 ~ Amen!
August 12th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
I can personaly say I know hundreds of people that have had there lives changed because of the Team and the leaders it has. It is my view that the Team produces leaders, leaders we all can look up to in business and in our personal lives. In truth that is what I look for in any business, who are the leaders, what are there values. The products are just that, products. It is obvious that Quixtar and Amway have done some great things over the years and been a part of helping allot of people achieve success. However in the end, the organizations that represent quixtar are the foundation that that success is built from, not the products.
Furthermore something that occured to me that may help in forming a fair opinion of this situation. I know that there is a specific form that every new IBO receives when they sign up for Quixtar, it is called the SA-4400. It is no secret you can find it posted all over the internet. It shows how IBO “legs” are built and how the money is made with those legs. Now my point with mentioning that is that Quixtar approved and produces a SA-4400 specific for the TEAM and there approach on building “legs”
So with that being said, I am puzzled why Quixtar would approve the approach that the TEAM uses and has used for several years, and now it is wrong and violates rules.
It just appears to me that they are attempting to hurt the reputation of the TEAM and its leaders as well as there obvious results, by being dishonest and unproffessional.
Of coarse that is my opionion, and I realize that in the heat of the moment sometimes things are said and done that are not thought thru and can consist of incomplete information and truth. I hope that this whole situation settles down and problems are addressed and resolved without hurting everyone involved, mainly the members of the TEAM that obviously had a dream to build a business thru Quixtar while becoming better leaders thru the TEAM.
thank you
August 12th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
#211 says it the best out of anyone…I agree 1000%
August 12th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
Just some observations that need to be thought through:
I have been a Distributor/IBO since the early 90’s, Amway and Quixtar. We were given a choice when Quixtar was launched. Why are we not being given a choice now? (or in 2 years?) Most of my downline signed up in Quixtar NOT Amway. All of my growth has come after Quixtar launched.
Why not get to the bottom of this by showing all of us the McKinsey Report?
Why not get to the bottom of this by showing all of us the “Learning Lab” results? (Side note: some of my fellow IBO’s WERE a part of that program, so it DOES exist)
Ask your self, “Why would Don Wilson, a RETIRED Double Diamond and former Board President, sign a complaint and throw away a life long residual income that took over 30 years to build if there is no validity to it?”
“Why would EDC Billy Forence, a former Board President, haul off and allign with TEAM then sign a complaint and throw away a business he and Peggy have built since 1974 if there was no validity to it?” They have money, why not sit out for 2 years then start their own MLM, if that is their motive?
Why wouldn’t any of these guys just sit out for 2 years and start their own MLM “IF” that was their motive?
Why file a complaint and not just quit, lay out for 2 years and start a new MLM?
Ask the “motive” questions and look at the easy, greedy alternatives and I think you’ll see the bigger picture. This is not about starting a new MLM, it looks to me like it is “righting an old wrong”…
August 12th, 2007 at 11:22 pm
#186 Matt Says: “If I had been in the business a few years and was making $5K per month and the rules were changed to say that I must not do any other MLM for 6 months or I will be sued by the corporation, what do you think I would do???? Come on, do you honestly think anyone would give that up???”
Matt, this is business. You can’t build an organization of people with one company and then take them all to start your own company. A non-compete clause is a standard business practice.
Use the Corp. to build a group of people and then think you can just take them to your new competitive company without a waiting period?
Think of all the proprietary information the Diamonds (particularly IBOAI members), Emeralds, Platinums, and even regular IBOs have been privy to.
This lawsuit has NOTHING to do with that. As I said in my #165 comment, if they really wanted to start their motivational/leadership business peacefully, they could have. All their “followers” would have patiently waited six months for their holy heroes.
Their intention with the suit is to create bad press for the Corp.
August 12th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
The no-compete and no-solicitation clause is relatively new (3 years old) in the Distributor Contract that Quixtar slipped in without notice. Only IBOs less than three years old have actually signed such a contract. For those of us in longer, we have been on Quixtar’s Auto-renewal program. I seriously doubt that Orrin or the other 14 leaders who resigned could be legally bound to such a clause that they did not sign in their original contracts, simply based on Auto-renewal. They are fighting this fight for you and me, for ALL IBO’s regardless of affiliation. As a result, no matter what the legal outcome, Quixtar must make some positive changes that benefit ALL IBO’s or they are going to go the way of the dinsoaur in North America.
Recently I found lots of info on youtube regarding Amway/Quixtar/Alticor and you would be surprised at how much advertising Amway is producing in the Japanese and foreign markets vs the US. Obviously, they have discovered that Americans want more than they are willing to give and are now focusing their efforts on the disadvantaged people in other countries. Only the IBOAI leaders who resigned to take up the fight for ALL IBO’s in America truly care about our futures! Almost everything on youtube in English about AMWAY/QUIXTAR is negative and makes you ashamed to tell your relatives that you are even associated with them! Because of ALL the negative hype against AMWAY/Quixtar, you have to show the plan before you ever mention who the brick and mortar company behind it is, otherwise, you would never get your foot in the door! I tried being open and honest from the start before showing the plan and I was repeatedly laughed at as they walked away, saying “AWWAY, SCAMWAY…NOWAY”! To be honest, if someone had told me it was AMWAY before they showed me the plan, I would have walked away laughing too! I had joined AMWAY back in 1980 and after 12 months of not being able to sell to my own family and friends because of the high prices, I got out and used the inventory myself. It was the XS Energy Drinks that made me come back and only XS! If XS Gear decides to break away from Quixtar, I will be going where they go, as it is the only product worth selling that is competive and makes me proud to represent it. XS GEAR take notice! You are the power behind our success in the US, not Quixtar. TEAM Growth has been the fastest in the US because we focus on XS Energy Drinks and not Quixtar’s other product lines! If Quixtar changes their name back to AMWAY, it could seriously hurt your future growth! It was TEAM who made us loyal customers of XS with their DOT1/STEP program, which is totally optional and not required. TEAM leaders have always told us that their system for success was optional. Never have they forced us to buy anything!
What MLM? TEAM has mentioned no plans for a new MLM! That is Quixtar/Alticor propoganda to discredit our leaders! However, should a new MLM become necessary as a result of being terminated by Quixtar, I will follow where TEAM leads me!
Note: I am a C personality and study everything thoroughly before I make a decision or comment. I am not a blind person following the blind!
August 12th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
has anyone wandered why some of the people named as a plaintiffs, but has mannaged to “miss the cut”? Read the list of plaintiffs then those who made the cut. JUST FOR FUN!!!!!!!!
August 12th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
#198 Bruce says: “You should read the lawsuit like I have”
I did read the suit. See my comment #173.
: )
I was alerted to it by my husband, who has covered the legal arena for over a decade as a newspaper reporter. In that time, he’s read thousands of court files and written about hundreds of court cases, both civil and criminal.
Here are his comments:
I suspect the first draft of the suit was written in crayon, so juvenile and ridiculous was much contained therein. There were times when I read a passage a few times, just to let the words (easy-to-dismiss words like “impossible” that have no business being littered throughout something like a lawsuit) sink in.
It was jarring to see such senseless chatter amid the standard references to (supposed) legal precedents.
Whatever seeds of truth may be sprinkled within the document, they are buried beneath mounds of gross generalities, whiny evasions of personal responsibility and inherent contradictions.
No, the plaintiffs insist, we’re not looking to put Quixtar out of business. But, hey, it’s an illegal pyramid. Huh? Why wouldn’t you want to put an illegal entity out of business?
If any half-witted reporter writes about this subject, they’re going to be able to read between the lines and see the suit for what it is.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:01 am
“ORRIN FOR PRESIDENT”!
This is the best thing I’ve read so far.I second the motion, all in favor say “I”
August 13th, 2007 at 12:04 am
I find it funny that people are excited about changing the name back to Amway. These people have sniffed a little too much SA8.
I am curious to see how many of the positive ‘pro Q’ posts on this blog are from paid Q employees.
Anybody willing to throw out a number?
August 13th, 2007 at 12:10 am
Andy #226
Motive?? Read blog #216…
Amway/Alticor/Quixtar??? What difference does it make? When you prospect people, it’s YOU that they are buying into. The NAME of the corporation that is backing your Free Enterprise opportunity is NOT what’s important. It’s the history, the integrity, the ethics and the future stability that is important.
If you’re not strong enough to get around the NAME objection, then you better get involved with a company that will “stack” people under you, until you’re strong enough to build your own business
Now, stop whinning and go build YOUR future. Amway ain’t going anywhere. Someday you’ll be thankful that the founders had the forsight to bankroll BILLIONS, so they can afford to fight for your right to… fight!!
In a short while, the TEAM will be another footnote in the history of MLM. Another sad story of pride & greed hurting thousands of people. Contrary to the TEAM loyalists feelings, Orrin and Chris are only human. As humans, we make mistakes. They have just made an “Enron” size of mistake…
Never put your “Faith” in people. Remember, we serve a jealous God! Go chase the dream that He gave you.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:23 am
Thank You, Quixtar for finally taking action on the absurd behavior of the leaders of the “Team”. You warned them over and over and they would not adhere to the business conduct rules. I think that Quixtar has shown incredible integrity and accountability to the business conduct rules and to the IBO’s who are building the business properly. Quixtar is an amazing corporation that treats everyone with respect while giving all people an equal opportunity to succeed.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:24 am
Dear Orrin,
You can’t build it like a racehorse and then manage it like a jackass.
You can’t build it like a Republican and then manage it like a Democrat.
You can’t build it by edifing the people and the corporation that afforded you the opportunity to make millions and then de-edify those same people. It’s obvious from this blog, that a lot of people are buying your “red bull.”
But I know that down deep, you must be sick! The good news is, that you imploded BEFORE you got to a million people. Now, that would have been really bad.
Know that we are praying for you…
August 13th, 2007 at 12:33 am
First off, building “Team Depth” is an approved method of operation, in use by the Corp. approved MarkerMan Productions (Jody Victor’s org.), and used by other organizations as well, such as Brad Dehaven’s in CA. What the Team founders did was create a NON-PROFIT tools/systems organization–everyone — EVERYONE — is rewarded based on thier own personal performance. NO fairer way of doing this than I’ve ever seen. THink about this–55 weekend BDS’s around the US this month–amazing. No other organization did that. Summer Leaderships - 4 of them - that now outnumber Yager major functions. More “Opens” than any other organization US-wide, and they are ALL THE SAME–no “check with your upline first”, etc. It all makes perfect sense that the Team did in fact revise and put into practice the absolute best, and most fair support system possible. I have been part of (fostered into) another great organization for many years, out of Ohio, whose leaders are among the best people I’ve encountered, and I LOVE the Yagers. I recently — past 3 months, was exposed to the Team, due to our local organization we tie into in the state I’m in. Most organizations in our state saw the way Chuck Goetschel was running his system, and loved it, and when he joined with the Team, these diamond organizations went too. VERY skeptically, I reviewed the Team’s literature, content, CDs, opens, and weekend seminars, as well as the Summer Leadership function. In all my 14 years in the biz, and being tied into InterNet (which is great), I can say the best system overall is this one the Team came up with. They fixed a great deal of what was just not tied together well. Their business plan is not different than Yager diamonds’ plans–not much. No one mentions Quixtar up front in plans / opens. So - all in all, having seen the best system as it was–InterNet–and now the Team’s, it was obvious the most fair to IBOs, and the most consistent, is the Team’s. Never thought I’d say that. Anyone can make more $$ from the system than Orrin or Chris. Everyone knows exactly what that is, unlike in other organizations. Again–it’s a NON-PROFIT company system–amazing. Having the SAME biz plan shown in all opens nationwide–period–does not happen in any other organization. You just cannot knock the Team’s system.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:34 am
Everyone needs to read #193. Right on!
August 13th, 2007 at 12:35 am
Alright! I am not with Team and yet I have heard way tooo much negative from prospects in my area who have been turned off because of their business building practices. It is unfortunate for all involved with the Team…but do us a favor (others who are IBO’s in other LOA’s)…do your deal, with integrity and lay off the name smearing…If you all care about people so much, don’t forget that there are other people building a future with quixtar…and your garbage comments hurt us just as much as the corporation…scam, pyrimad? Come on you know better. Leaders lead, followers follow, and IBOs should filter it through a brain cell.
Oh and please leave Christianity out of this, God has nothing to do with lawsuits and strife…Christians are people and people aren’t perfect…that is what His Grace and Mercy is for.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:39 am
I think this is like a witch hunt! The Corp sees more profit in width than depth. It seems to me if you plan on keeping your IBO # you better go wide or you could be next. By the way is their anyone left on the board that we elected to represent us? Are their any other board members that have used tools like TEAM? Are their any board members left that have built the business like TEAM? Is their any board members currently in the livingrooms? I guess the real question is DO WE HAVE ANY ONE THAT IS BUILDING THE BUSINESS ON THE BOARD? If the answer is yes then my questions are:
Where were you when this happened?
Where were you when the Corp decided to change back to AMWAY?
Where will you be when you become too big for them to handle?
August 13th, 2007 at 12:46 am
Bridgett,
After reading all of these posts and now your last post #227 I must say you sound more and more like a Corp. hack. You never answered the questions that were tossed up to you… ARE YOU AN IBO OR A CORP. EMPOYEE? I’d bet on Corp. employee.
I am a second generation IBO, grew up in this business. I’ve seen the great, good, bad and ugly and this is the ugliest I’ve ever seen. My parents are very large in this business with several friends that have been on the Board. Some friends are Team leaders, most are not and those that are not have been saying the same thing Team is saying now for years. This complaint didn’t just pop up in Orrin’s mind a month ago. This has been a complaint of the Board for several years. They finally made a stand.
Forget about “stacking”, that is not what this is about. Forget about tool systems, that is not what this is about. It is about proper pricing of products so all IBOs can succeed to a greater degree.
Those that have resigned from the Board did what we voted for them to do. They stood up to the Corp. for us and our businesses. I applaud each and every one of them.
I encourage all IBOs considering to follow Team to remove themselves from Auto Renewal before the end of the month. Ride this out a few months and make a decision about renewing at the end of the year. I for one just recently got affiliated with Team thanks to my father choosing to affiliate his organization with them. Seeing, hearing and experiencing Team over the past couple months I know I will be following Team.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:48 am
#170 T.Max wrote:
“…not this time, just tell me when and where Chuck.”
Hey T.Max, ya might want to check with Colleen before you put a lot of faith in Chuck’s loyalty…
August 13th, 2007 at 1:27 am
Anybody know what product the TEAM will be selling, Orrin n Chris’s books? Great books no doubt. However isn’t a tools only business a complete pyrmid? They are at the top they make the most money, hmmm so many questions, GOD bless all involved we hope you choose right.
August 13th, 2007 at 1:35 am
Wow - looks like a lot of passion on all sides!
It is hard to see the truth through all of this.
I can see many statements for Quixtar that don’t look right.
Wasn’t Gotchel accredited? Highly ethical person. His system was approved and I believe he did many of the same things the TEAM does.
All of them were on the IBOA board and their job was to talk for the IBO’s. They got there for a reason. They have a responsibility.
Why would Quixtar send such a message to all the TEAM members when you would think this is an important time for them. Wouldn’t you put your hand out?
The prices for the product are too high - biggest issue when showing the plan.
Do you know expensive it will be and time consuming to create their own NEW business? Most people take the path of least resistance.
Makes sense you would try to work it out first …but if you couldn’t and there was that much money in it, why not start your own. It is America. Competition is good! They would have to bring there prices down.
Sounds like a big company trying to protect themselves using old methods. We have seen this with Polaroid, Motorola, Kodak and many other companies. It rarely works. It is hard for an existing company such as Quixtar to make such changes.
Guess we all need to keep reading until we get our own solution.
August 13th, 2007 at 1:46 am
I wanted to jump in here since I am an IBO/Leader in the Team system.
I have hundreds of IBO’s who purchase tools / attend events sponsored by Team.
And guess what, I have never had one leave/or ask to leave.
The Team system has no non-compete clause or ANY legal document that would tie me our my organization to it.
Really, I can leave at any time!
If the BSM’s they produce don’t help us, we don’t have to buy them. But here is the kicker, If we can find better support elsewhere, we can leave.
That is integrity.
Quixtar/Amway if you want to see us go, then I say let us! if not, you lost any respect I may have had for you.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:13 am
(CHEER) “Go, TEAM, Go”; “Go, TEAM, Go”!
You tell us to Go, TEAM, Go! Well, we will turn that into our battle cry and cheer our leaders on to victory with cheers of “Go, TEAM, Go”!
Men of principles cannot be bought or sold! The Great 8, as they are now known in the blog forums, are all men of high principles and integrity. They have the full support of their wives, families and TEAM. One of them, Reverand Dickie, is an active Minister and mentor to Orrin and Chris! Would he have resigned if it were not the right thing to do? I know Orrin and Chris and their reputation, what they stand for and the people they lead are far more important to them than any monetary gain. Their actions prove it! They sacrificed themselves for me, the new IBO, just as Jesus did for us all over 2000 years ago and they are getting crucified by Quixtar and Alticor because of it!
Orrin and Chris have told the TEAM to run their IBO businesses as usual and continue to bring more IBOs into Quixtar and the TEAM, knowing that their cause is right and just and a Jury Trial to address the issues that Quixtar refused to address at any IBOAI meeting will win out, and when Quixtar is forced to implement the changes required by the Court, it will benefit us all. They have not told us to quit or leave Quixtar or that they are planning a new MLM or product line! Who started that rumor? Quixtar! Quixtar started the mudslinging. You will not find any such mudslinging blog on the TEAM’s website. If you truly want to know more about TEAM and what they stand for then check out: www.the-team.biz
MEDIA WARRIORS FIGHT ON!
August 13th, 2007 at 2:25 am
Re: #219
Best selection of quotes I’ve seen in a long time!
Going to a MILLION!!!
August 13th, 2007 at 2:57 am
Hey over the top loyal to death TEAM mebers..check your leaders out. This is a repeating pattern. I remeber when they were onstage as new Emerald’s with there upline Diamond Ron Hale, then as Diamonds at a Yager Go Diamond. I remember Orrin yelling at everyone about how he bought all the Dexter audios he could and just listened and listened. I remember how zealous he was until they turned their back on Yager and Hale..’cause they couldn’t make enough money!! Now it’s Quixtar..bottom line repeating pattern. They just can’t make enough money until they own their own thing with nobody to answer to. It is all about money and the rest is trash talking smoke and mirrors. Period.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:14 am
First, to those who question why the leaders would remain in and continue to recruit individuals for all of these years if they knew they were in a pyramid: either they didn’t until they reached a high enough level to see behind the scenes, or they needed enough proof to file a suit, which again, for proof they would need to be able to see behind the scenes. - It appears that they assumed this was a legal MLM where you do share in the profits as a result of volume flowing through your business and then reasonably asked for the prices to be lowered as the demand was high (let the prices be determined by the market) - they were after all mfg by Access, owned by the Alticor. corp - shouldn’t the prices be lower? Where are the middlemen…alticor, alticor, alticor..the prices are higher to cover what exactly? and the lady above who tried to explain why they had to adjust pv/pv according to price..any positive adjustment of pv/bv or price would cause more volume = more $$ for ALL…sure they say they’re lowering the prices…I got my ‘Options’ mag…they lowered some, and increased others…soon it will only be amway products! ‘Buy what you were gonna buy anyway with your anyway $ - as long as it’s a big box of really good soap and such that lasts forever so I only have to buy it once every 6 months…
Second, to those of you claiming that Team ‘broke the rules’, 1. they had permission to build as they did 2. The tools consist of leadership/self help books from reputible authors outside of the Team/Amway business as well as motivational cds (sound familiar?) 3. Team members were never told that they had to do anything, in fact they said “you don’t have to do anything that we tell you” however those that followed the system found success 3. Apparently the Amway/Quixtar corp. had a problem following their own rules - the ones that would ensure that they did not operate as an illegal pyramid. Perhaps we should clarify the definition of illegal pyramid from solid source, and then confirm whether or not Quixtar was breeching their own rules. Apparently there is proof, why don’t we let the jury decide…at best Quixtar just doesn’t want to lower the prices (for what reason, you tell me) and really thinks their IBOs would do well under the name Amway. At worst, they get shut down. Either way now, or 6 months from now, Team members are free
August 13th, 2007 at 4:37 am
I’m a returning IBO since earlier this year, having been in when the company was just “AMWAY” in the early 90’s, and leaving just prior to “QUIXTAR”. A friend of mine introduced me to TEAM this year and we were hooked again. The part that always brought me around to this biz was the people side. I already have a job that pays the bills, but being able to help people get ahead and better them/ourselves as a person and not just with the outside material things was the big draw. The positive atmosphere of TEAM meetings and associations with future thinking people is sooo much more refreshing than the everyday backstabbing of corporate/political life. From watching this forum, it seems if Orrin and Chris are being blamed for “The System”. I was impressed that they have the same “system” as what was going on in the early 90’s before they even got in, and that tools cost the same now as they did back then, only now with the talk of profit sharing for those. The corporation, AMWAY or QUIXTAR (why did they ever change the name in the first place by the way?)sanctioned all of these meetings knowing that products don’t excite people, it was the people who were going to inspire the other future business owners to be more than they felt they could ever be. I have to say that I’ve always felt better about myself and the world around me after getting around so many POSITIVE uplifting people! This alone is worth the price of admission to feel that I’m a better father/husband/friend that I was before TEAM/QUIXTAR. I’ve never been forced to purchase any of the “system” cd’s, books or function tickets and have always made up my own mind if I wanted to participate in this system. As a trainer/instructor myself, away from this enviroment, I just knew that I would never get ahead without nor would I be successful without learning about this new field of endeavor, which meant tools. I had spent A LOT of money to be a successful trainer/instructor before coming to the TEAM/QUIXTAR business. I always laughed at people that choke at the cost of tools to do this business but think nothing of spending thousands of dollars for an inane college course/books just because it was “required” for a certain degree.
I knew what I was getting into and who I was doing business with when I started with TEAM/QUIXTAR. My friend and my upline never concealed it from me. Never at any functions or after function talks was anything ever said negative about the corporation. It was always spoke of just as it is, a business that supports the website, pays the bonuses and manufactures GREAT products! I was told from the start that this was NOT a get rich quick scheme and that it was going to take effort and sacrifice to make this a successful business.The fact remains though, that it is the “Carpet crunchers of America” that are running the roads TOGETHER, that will build a great reputation for the company allowing them to sell more products.
I have always liked the products from AMWAY so that didn’t bother me at all that the core products were from them. It did become unsettling to me though, when I got my first box of SA8 , that I couldn’t find the “Manufactured by AMWAY” anywhere on the box. Who deleted that fact and why? Did Orrin and Chris do that also? I’d be able to stand up more for the corporation if they themselves didn’t feel that they had to change the name to become accepted here.
I am still excited by the future of this “negotiation” between TEAM and QUIXTAR because I have never seen a better opportunity yet. Unfortunately, I’m at a roadblock in MY business because I’m not going to show this plan without knowing where we will be tomorrow.
August 13th, 2007 at 5:13 am
Our upline teaches us (when making a decision) to ask ourselves (1) is it good for the business as whole? (2) is it good for the group? and (3) is it good for my business?
Some questions for the thinkers on TEAM…
Did Orrin Woodward act in the interests of the A/Q business as a whole? Including those outside TEAM?
Did Orrin Woodward act in the interests of his group? … the financial interests of every IBO in his downline?
Did Orrin Woodward act in the interests of his own A/Q business?
Any answers, bloggers?
August 13th, 2007 at 6:36 am
Orrin Woodward Leaves Quixtar
Orrin Woodward, the charismatic Diamond leader of the TEAM motivational group, has resigned from Quixtar. The news came to me by a phone call from a friend who advised that I visit the Team Orrin Woodward blog to read the resignation announcement. The …
August 13th, 2007 at 7:32 am
“No taxation without representation”.
No profit for Quixtar without being accountable to the the IBOAI.
I wouldn’t blindly follow the TEAM or similiar groups, however, neither will I put my trust in Quixtar when they ignore common sense, market research, and especially when they ignore the counsel of the IBOAI who are elected to represent us. After all “IBOAI doesn’t have veto power”.
Maybe the 8 IBOAIs see the future before it gets here. I wonder if all the Quixtar loyalists will be as loyal when Quixtar decisions like the Amway name-change damage their businesses?
August 13th, 2007 at 8:18 am
Just for your information you will not find anything like this on the team site www.the-team.biz
August 13th, 2007 at 8:24 am
Go Alitcor…stand up and fight. Enforce the rules of engagement!
August 13th, 2007 at 8:34 am
In response to 249
Did Orrin Woodward act in the interests of the A/Q business as a whole? Including those outside TEAM? Yes, It does’nt sound like ibo’s outside of TEAM want us around anyway!
Did Orrin Woodward act in the interests of his group? … the financial interests of every IBO in his downline? Yes, the future of the TEAM will prove this!
Did Orrin Woodward act in the interests of his own A/Q business? Yes, as I stated above the future of the TEAM will prove this!
August 13th, 2007 at 8:45 am
I love the quote…”Let our people go” Thats all we ask, and our group has never hid the fact that we were affiliated with quixtar. Also the products are very highly priced. I cant sell any products except XS line. You can blame Orrin, but look at the other leaders that left, do you see the trend, Quixtar was given the option to lower prices, ( get rid of the J-factor). Quixtar is a very efficant operation, but very hard to retail their products. We ar excite and we will follow our leadership of TEAM, as we go to a million people, with or without Quixtar.
August 13th, 2007 at 8:47 am
Time will answer all the critics!
I have heard and seen these things many times here in India - someone saying out loud that they are gonna build a bigger MLM than Amway!
I’m still waiting!
All these arguements don’t count - I’m proud of the Amway name and I’ll carry the torch!
If you are negative abt the name ‘Amway’, it’s becoz you haven’t yet met me!!
If you think the products are costly it’s becoz you haven’t bought any product from me!
If you think you have never seen an honest plan, it’s becoz you have never shown one!
And if you think you know all about Amway then you have never read ‘Compassionate Capitalism’!
And if you think what Alticor did now is unfair then you never read your business reference guide!
Thinking and Lamenting will never replace Work!
Go out and work!
Go show an honest plan - tell them it’s Amway or Quixtar!
Do something - meet people with vigour!
And then come back and post here!
August 13th, 2007 at 8:51 am
And regardless of what happens, if the TEAM folded today, I will be a better person, and its because of the leadership of the TEAM.
August 13th, 2007 at 8:54 am
I own a conventional business and I can charge whatever price I want to my customers. I can tell you I am definately not the cheapest.
I use quality parts and take extra special care of my customers. And they buy.
I also own my Quixtar business. I charge my customers whatever I want. I know I am not the cheapest. I take extra special care of each of my customers. And they buy.
I do very well in sales in both businesses. There is no law saying you have to charge a certain price.
To say our products are priced so high we can’t sell them is just not true.
August 13th, 2007 at 9:00 am
Ri61 (#249),
No. No. No. No. No. Who is your upline/which system do they use, how much do they charge for tools, and how much do they make on tools (CD’s, web site, voice mail, books, functions, etc.)?
August 13th, 2007 at 9:14 am
one other thing…Any IBO that is going to make any money at all is going to have to get tough enough to sell a box of SA8. 100 loads for $22.75 and thats expensive? Plus all the other benefits. If you don’t know the other benefits that why you can’t sell it!
Toughen up. Orrin what are you doing? Your teaching your team to be men of steel yet they can’t sell fabric softner? Come on.
August 13th, 2007 at 9:14 am
In respose to #249
Yes, I believe he did. When we joined Quixtar we had never been in Amway. Over the last five years a very high percentage of the people we have shown the plan & registered have stated…. if this is Amway we do not want to be associated. We have assured them we were registering in Quixtar.
With the upcoming name changed to Amway as confirmed by Customer Service yesterday. The name will be changed from Quixtar to Amway. A vast majority of people (on our team) who have a negative feeling towards Amway would quit when this happens.
This was one of Orrins and other IBOA members concerns. And I for one am grateful for their courageous move.
August 13th, 2007 at 9:30 am
Hello Unknown Ri61
ORRIN has done everything for others to reach their dreams. You don’t Know what you don’t know. DUH!!!
That is what I cannot stand for people who don’t know what they don’t know to come on to a blog and just blog….
Go to the the-team.biz site and read…..
You make him out to be a “Hitler”
All the things Orrin has done right by the people to express caring leadership
And all Alticor does sits back and snickers
and says “WE ARE WORKIN ON IT”
ALL ABOUT THE MONEY- “ALTICOR”
ALL ABOUT THE PEOPLE- “ORRIN”
There is a Difference you know………..buddy!
BLOG SOMEWHERE ELSE YOU don’t have enough information to blog here.
BLAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO MORE COMMENTS
August 13th, 2007 at 9:47 am
I vote for Alticor to send out a poll to all its IBOs, especially the active ones, to see who would support the Amway name.
I’ve been building this business for a year now and I’ve not seen a person who had positive comments about Amway other than the products. So they get in, buy products, and do nothing else. Good for the company, but bad for the IBOs as far as rebates. So those people say that Amway doesn’t work. It’s not Amway’s fault though, they are just a supplier after all. It’s the person’s fault that they didn’t build. I don’t have anything against them, it’s their rights, but they are responsible for their business. But it doesn’t change the fact that Amway has a bad name.
A lot of people seem to forget that Quixtar is only as good as its IBOs. I didn’t join this business because of Quixtar. I joined this business because of the person who came to my house.
This is Quixtar:
How many people would would have said YES to “you get in for $70, buy products and get paid. The more people you can talk to that would do the same, the more money you’ll get”. The first question would be, “what are the products?”, then followed by “What are the prices?” You then pull out the catalogue. How many would be interested in products that they’ve never seen before? So they look at the back portion and see all the products that are more expensive than what they could get. So what will they say? “NO”. Then you come out with “Well you need more people for the products to be cheaper”. Now what does the person think? “Oh, so you need to convince people, that in order to get cheaper products, you need to convince people the same?” Then you say “Oh and since we’re in August, you’ll need to pay $70 now and again before January 1st to renew. Sorry, but it’s just bad timing for you I guess.”
How many people would join that? I said almost exactly that over the phone the first few times because that’s the truth. Right? Other than showing the catologue, I was so nervous that it’s almost exactly what I said.
That’s Quixtar!!!!!
Anything mentioned other than that is sugarcoating the truth.
What you see here is Team people defending what other people are accusing. It doesn’t matter what the situation is. People will defend and people will accuse. Name an organization and someone will find fault in it.
I’m proud to be with legacy, which has now merged with Team. I have nothing against Legacy, but it’s not until Team that my relationship with my wife has taken a turn for the better, and it’s not because of money
. I’ve learned to better deal with people. I’ve learned to better deal with money, to appreciate life and many other things that, remove Quixtar, is all applicable in life. Team has changed my life that no amount of money can buy. For that, I’m gratefull.
August 13th, 2007 at 9:52 am
Hey TOM G.
Believe in Orrin and Chris keep showin’ the plan 15, 20 times a month. We are not done with our business…we are not done with the launching of the leadership revolution press on my friend. The content and commerce might be changing but we are still going to be a TEAM.
THE CONTENT and Commerce is just what it is, ANYBODY can do content and commerce….Alticor does it don’t they, My neighbor down the street does it….you could too if you wanted to.
BUT THE TEAM builds and has built a COMMUNITY #1 in the whole Alticor/Quixtar/Amway business model. A/Q/A, now are just being selfish kids and hateful to the creator of a SYSTEM Better then theirs. THEY ARE JEALOUS THAT IT WASNT THEIR IDEA.
SHOW THE PLAN 4-5-6 times a week
A GREAT WISE MAN ONCE SAID
“When my critics said no, my destiny said GO”
SINCERELY,
Matthew Day
PS Trust me, Alticor is sad to see those leaders do what did because that took leadership and it took pure guts.
NO MATTER what I say they already said enough…”Alticor” that is.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:10 am
I have not been in the business for many years (8+) after leaving to take care of my father’s company. There are many issues here. I will try to simplify them.
1. The majority of the income is made in the promotional materials. This is undisputable. Our income was mostly tools and tapes. At the Ruby level it would have been more than double our bonus checks. Adding the shared profits from funtions, speaking, etc., and it approaches the mid-six figures at the diamond level.
2. The 10 customer rule is not enforced.(and never has been, at least since the Bernice Hansen days) This technically makes Amway/Quixtar a wholesale buying club, which is illegal regarding tax deductions, etc.
3. Tha Alticor/Quitar name change was just a legal strategy to avoid paying inheritance taxes of over a billion dollars. That’s why they’re now changing back to Amway. If you don’t believe me, then why did Amway Japan sell 10% of its stock right after Rich had his first serious heart episode? To raise funds for the inevitable. Why did that last yacht they built have a helipad on the bow? So a medivac helicopter could whisk someone away in a hurry? Who? (Direct from a Diamond’s mouth) Anyone who understands tax law knows this was all a thinly veiled method of avoiding inheritance/transferrence(sp?) taxes. Don’t believe me? Check out who owns the majority of Alticor/Quixtar/whatever now, and who owned it back before the name changed. It’s a little different, isn’t it? The answer is to get rid of the inheritance tax, but that’s another subject.
4. The majority of IBO’s never make money. That’s a fact. Most are not business people. If they just sold products at a profit, they might make money, but once they buy tools, etc., they don’t stand a chance.
After seeing all this from the inside (direct distributor-pre-INA beakup days), I realized that there is a reason there are less than a thousand diamonds and up. The Amway dream is not a reality, but more like a pipe dream. A select few will make it to the top, but the overwhelming majority won’t, and they will line the pockets of the few that do.
I don’t know if it can be fixed. I loved the association and the environment, but to spend $8-10K a year on tools, etc., well…
I don’t pretend to know what the issue is with TEAM or anyone else. I just know that the system is broken, and has been for a long, long time. I hope something good comes out of it and that a lot of people don’t get hurt.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:28 am
Bridgett, I agree with Steve #240 - you never answered my question in your response to me #227 or #230. Again I ask: Are you an IBO or you or your husband or any family members working for the corporation as employee(s)?
For over 30 years, in or out of Amway/Quixtar I’ve always held it in high regard until now. I’ve lost all faith in Quixtar/Amway/Alticor or what ever you want to call yourselves. The corporate’s unilateral dissolution of the board is disturbing. Having an ADA/IBOIA Board set this MLM apart from the other “like but better than” MLMs. Now Quixtar/Amway is in the same boat.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:28 am
For everyone’s information, I have seen the Woodwards and Bradys several times this past weekend at church events. They have not said ONE WORD to anyone about a new business opportunity or what happened with Alticor last week. Do you know why??? I think it’s because they are going to do things the right way. They are going to abide by the court’s rulings, and they are not going to do anything until a court says they can.
I know what Orrin’s mission has been, almost from the start. To provide a business opportunity that is fair for everyone. One that provides reasonably priced products and a plan that can provide a good income to an average person. Orrin hoped, prayed, and planned to work WITH Quixtar to make that happen. I think the owners and managers of Q have gotten so far away from the original purpose of their business.
Orrin was just asking for some consideration on pricing. NOT every product. Just 10 or 15 products that no one can beat us on price. (I know all the arguments about quality and value–most of the products are superior. But how much extra is a customer willing to pay for superior laundry soap? A BMW is a superior car, but to ask the average person to buy one, then if you convince lots of other people to buy one, you’ll actually be able to afford it!)
Instead of taking a common sense approach (let’s see, I can make $1 on 500 items or I can make .40 on 10,000 items), the corporation decided to eliminate the “trouble makers” and then issue a press release that lies and slanders Woodward and Brady. (Check out the SA4400 that Quixtar approved that shows the TEAM method of depth building that Woodward and Brady have repeatedly said Team IBOs MUST give to every single prospect BEFORE they register.)
I’m not EVEN going to go into the name change to Quixtar. (When Quixtar was started, IBOs could choose to sign with either Quixtar or Amway or both. If you chose both, you paid for both!)
I think the people running Alticor are either 1. out of their minds, or 2. trying to put U.S. IBOs out of business. Think about it. They love the Asian market because those people are very docile and compliant. Communists don’t make very many waves!
My guess is–they want to put ALL North American IBOs out of business so they can start over and use the model they are using in Asia, which includes retail outlets. And guess what? Then they will be FORCED to offer competitive prices, and gosh, they could have avoided all of this mess had they just done that in the first place!
August 13th, 2007 at 10:39 am
IBOs, imagine not having to use the quality over quantity argument that Quixtar/Amway has indoctrinated us to say for years. I’ve even heard it here in this blog - we’ve all been good obedient students. Thank God we had board members willing to fight for all IBOs rather than just take their money and run. It’s called “making a difference”.
In early August, I listened to Orrin and Laurie Woodward at a seminar. Not once did they drag Quixtar or Alticor down into the mud like he and the other board members have been dragged by Alticor’s opening statement.
As Michael Dell said years ago in Detroit: You can have Content and Commerce (Alticor) but those who develop Community will be a major player on the internet. Community, that’s us the IBOs - who do you think I’m going to be loyal to? Alticor or TEAM?
Whether they be the President or the leaders affliliated with TEAM - A man or woman of integrity has time on their side to prove that they were right.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:44 am
Wow Quixtar Wow! If you would have cleaned up BWW, Winners International and other money sucking motivation organizations, we wouldn’t have quit! Good luck for the cleaning of this mess.
Don’t wait till these organizations hurt Quixtar, rather expel or warn them when they violate rules and screw people who start as an IBO. If you do so, then there won’t be any negative blogs against Quixtar. Then, you don’t have to do GOOGLE BOMBING to “regain your reputation in the net”, if you’ve anything left!
August 13th, 2007 at 10:53 am
In response to Dad’s post 233:
Don’t put your faith in people, Orrin and Chris are only human… and the leaders of Amay are not? Are they not human a falable as well? If your going to blindly lump people into that category why stop with some people who are actually trying to do something for the IBO and take a hard look at the owners of the company… how come they escape your radar as to possibly being greedy, and ego-maniacs? The Team has never said they were perfect, they never will be, but I have done enough research to know their motives are pure and for the IBO, whether you agree with them or not, if you truly knew, you would not be slinging crap like that around, but hey this is America, this is the Internet, and the masses believe the whining of a few jaded individuals all the time, we ALL fight that every time we go out to build our business…
Take some responsibility to go learn both sides as much as you can before putting your foot in your mouth, especially on the Internet, as you can not take it back…
August 13th, 2007 at 10:59 am
FYI…From Orrin’s Web site:
“Orrin Woodward was deeply saddened by Alticor’s blog post, “Just Go, Team,” (http://media.alticorblogs.com/2007/08/10/just-go-team/#comments) however, he has chosen to remain silent on the issue. Interestingly enough, the article paints Orrin Woodward as a serious violator of the Quixtar rules, yet he has never been sanctioned for any Rule violation in his 13 years in the business.”
Explain that one!!
August 13th, 2007 at 11:13 am
As a TEAM member for 18 months, I feel that the TEAM members are probably in a better position to talk about TEAM practices than other IBOs who have not been to any of our opens, seminars or majors. How can you possibly talk about something that you have NEVER been a part of ? We have ALL been a part of Q and their prices, practices and now decisions to take us back to a name that NO ONE I have EVER talked to wants to be a part of. Ninety five percent, I repeat 95% of all the people I have talked to has a first question…”is this Amway? cause if it is, no way ! ” And Q thinks this is a positive move ?
As to our building pattern, I want just ONE of you to explain why this was fine for years & years until Orrin’s organization got big enough to challenge some of the Q practices and now he’s a pariah ? He could ( and should )have been terminated LONG before now if it was not an approved method.
And if Q truly wants him to go, the let those who choose to go with him, leave as well. in other words, terminate us too, if necessary. Why KEEP people who will just quit showing the plan or ordering anyway ? Because, trust me, if we are not allowed to go, we WILL leave anyway….just keep us on your books for 6 months until we can do it your way. We won’t order. We won’t build. Not your way.
Finally, ask yourself one thing. If the “company” has helped me to build my business, why would I want to leave it for a “leadership group “? Maybe the “company” didn’t help me build it. Maybe the “leadership group” has been more instrumental in my success. Hmmmmmm
August 13th, 2007 at 11:32 am
#242 — xsibo FYI, the ENTIRE profit from the “Launching A Leadership Revolution,” soon to be launched by Time/Warner books and written by Orrin and Chris is being donated to charity! They are in the process now of writing a book on mentoring, which they fully expect to be taken up by Time/Warner, also, with the same profit deal. It is my understanding they take NO profit from the sales of their books. They take their FAIR part of tool sales and Function tickets as members of the TEAM system. That’s ALL they make from it.
For those who wonder if the TEAM’s tool system is secret, consider this: We’d been part of TEAM only a very short time when our Diamond sat our local group down in an informal meeting and explained it to us, COMPLETELY. He said if new people ask, it was okay to tell them. They have been nothing but up front with us from the start.
When my upline builds under me, I am pleased to know they are working in my best interest and theirs. They keep me actively involved. We have always had the practice of a MINIMUM of a phone call between the new IBO and the existing one, so there is a personal contact.
RETIRED Double Diamond and past IBOAI PRESIDENT Don Wilson came to Legacy a couple of years before it joined TEAM and explained how they built depth using that method I just described, and how we were going to similarly do it. He said it had the FULL SUPPORT AND APPROVAL of the corporation AND its legal team. We did it then, and continued when Legacy joined with TEAM in February of this year.
Either the corporation lied to Don and us then, or they are lying to you and everyone else now.
August 13th, 2007 at 11:34 am
I am an Independent Business Owner who fought for my freedom. I have been helping others fight for their freedom, too. I brought my family & friends into this with a hope and a dream. They did the same and their friends did the same. Quixtar didn’t know us, has no relationship with us, hasn’t helped us. They haven’t come to weddings and funerals. They haven’t comforted us or stayed up late at night with us. They haven’t turned us into men and women of character and integrity. They’ve not picked us up when we fell down. They’ve not nurtured and loved us.
Quixtar/Alticor decided without our knowledge, consent or opinion that we will be Amway distributors. A bunch of Emeralds and up confronted Doug DeVos and Steve Van Andel in person about this at a meeting in L.A. Their explanation for this major change was very disturbing. Their response to our negative reactions, extremely unsatisfying. That day I learned that I could not trust these leaders running Quixtar. They planned this in secret and are forcing it down all of our throats. They have not been loyal to me, and I have no reason to be loyal to them. I felt helpless and hopeless for our future. I felt trapped because we have all invested many years, and blood sweat and tears into this thing. My eyes have been opened- I am not independent at all. I am not free at all, they own me.
Quixtar has supplied us product and paid a bonus based on performance. They have been honorable & excellent at that. They’ve not helped develop our performance ability in any way.
I don’t think any of us realized until this lawsuit that we were property(slaves) of Quixtar. Quixtar is changing the deal with no regard for the damage it will do to our businesses. I have the right to fight for these friends and relatives. These brave men and women who have been terminated are helping fight for our friends and relatives to free them from their slavery.
August 13th, 2007 at 11:34 am
Regarding the Character of the Team’s Leaders:
These men have very comfortable lifestyles. They could have pulled out, waited 6 months and started new with a better way.
People are asking why didn’t they just go quietly and wait six months to do their own thing? My question: What kind of man with a backbone would?! Thank goodness they aren’t just leaving us to the wolves to defend ourselves.
Instead, they chose the unbeaten path. They have forfeited precious time with their wives, children, and families in order to help the rest of us. They have already invested millions of dollars into this law suit in order to provide the soon-to-be-departed IBO’s with a much brighter future. This whole uproar is not about seeking damages or any kind of monetary gain from Quixtar. Orrin is simply today’s Moses asking Quixtar to “Let my people go”.
These men are the most unselfish men I have ever met. They spend countless hours coming up with a better system when what they are doing has already proven to work quite well. They have always said, “Why settle for good when great is available?”.
The bottom line is these men would not have put their businesses out on the line if they did not truely believe it was a cause worth fighting for. These men are millionaires fighting billionaires, much like David and Goliath. I am a firm believer that God honors commitment, character and integrity.
Men of integrity expect to be believed, and when they are not, they let time prove them right.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
I agree with 268 about the Asian model. I have suspected this for some time now. They will be able to lower the prices because they will not have to pay the bonuses for the GREAT EIGHT or any other leaders that become too successful!
August 13th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
I just want to say that I am all for this move. I support the plans that are to be implemented in 2 years as well as the decisions made the past few days on select IBOships.
I personally have seen some of the confusion and damage made by the “TEAM” (though I don’t want to say everyone in the TEAM is a bad apple because that is not true)
I look forward to having a better business and making more money then before and I feel bad for members of these leaders who made decisions that put those IBO’s in such a state.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
ATTENTION ALL TEAM MEMBERS!!!
Coming soon to a TV show near you,
See it on Dateline…20/20…60 Minutes..etc
..See Billy Florence talk about how the big greedy Amway Corporation has a fleet of airplanes and he only has one. How fair is that, after all he was in the air force?
..See the adoring fans of Orren Woodward. They will show you how the illegal pyramid company would not let him do business his own way. After all, they let him get away with it for years and then he has to start following the rules. The company is flip-flopping on Orrin, how dare they, he is the next president.
..Watch Valerie Haugen cry on camera. The mean Alticor corporation terminated Randy’s IBO number.
..You will see Chris Brady stacking the treasures he found in Quixtar into his new MLM.
..The scene will start with Jim Martin standing by a beautiful mountain, he will look up and see a majestic eagle flying. Next a cage will be around the eagle, and the scene will be in a zoo. The cage bars on the screen will represent the “unfair” rules of the rich corporation. (I admit that I’m a lousy screen writer)
..We will see Chuck Getchell running in a triathlon. Then switch over to Asafa Powell running for less than 10 seconds. How dare this unfair company put Asafa’s picture on Double X and leave Chuck out.
..You will be able to check out the luxury suite in the Delta Center, see the Jazz playing in the background while Don Wilson talks about Rich DeVos and how Rich can own the big Amway Arena and he only has this little suite. Is it not fair that only Rich owns a basketball team? All of the IBO’s should own a basketball team, or at least the ones that have been in the longest and are on top of the stack!
(If you listened to the above diamonds tapes you will get it)
To the leaders, I do not believe that this is the real you. Get humble, go back to Alticor and help make our business a 100 million people worldwide success. If not then go away and build what ever you want but do not trash where you came from and do not steal from your upline. Don’t forget, everyone in your group is also in your uplines group.
To all IBO’s including TEAM IBO’s. Build a 1000PV first circle, teach that and create 15 to 20 1000PV front line and then duplicate!
God Bless all in whatever you decide.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
I’m amazed at how many IBO’s who were part of the Quixtar pyramid plan have totally scrapped that building system and decided to give themselves a real opportunity to grow their business with the TEAM business system. The TEAM, under the top notch leadership of Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady have driven more “Shoppers to the Quixtar site than any other, yet, Quixtar would cut off their noses to spite their face because they know the TEAM is strong and solid and wouldn’t blink an eye as far as leaving Quixtar. Quixtar under panic, is persuing the “HITLER” style of business called divide and conquer! They send out their little scare letters to IBO’s on the TEAM hoping they’ll panic and stay with Quixtar. Orrin Woodward teaches people to make their own choices in life. We chose the TEAM because of it’s second to none leadership which Quixtar can’t even come close to. Bottom line, the TEAM isn’t a money driven organization!
We’re about the people. We’re about family, loyalty, integrity and character. If Quixtar had any of that, this wouldn’t even be an issue. I am so looking forward to moving on without the Quixtar name being a negative factor in the progress of our TEAM businesses!
Orrin and Chris and the great TEAM leadership, you can count on me. I’ve got your back!
August 13th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Has anyone actually read the complaint!? Only 3.4% of Quixtar’s volume comes from customers. Holy smokes! That is conclusive proof that the products aren’t marketable! As we IBOs build our businesses, we get a lot of no’s. When we get no’s, we try to turn them into customers. We have a ton of opportunities to get customers, but we never can due to the prices. 3.4%!! I’d like to see if that document exists.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
If Quixtar is so confident that their business system is so unbelievably good, why do they need to send out thousands of their e-mails in an effort to scare TEAM IBO’s into staying with Quixtar? Listen, I’ve been a “Quixtar” IBO in the past and I had little to no chance of succeeding in their business system. It’s a recruiting game. Plain and simple. Quixtar is interested in how much money they can take from people’s pockets with no regard for their personal welfare. I’ve learned for the past 5 years that The TEAM has a vested interest in everyone’s success that chooses to be unaverage and goes out and persues their dreams without making excuses why they can’t. One thing I’ve learned through the outstanding TEAM leadership, is that your best investment is in your mind, not in “QUIXTAR”!!! I’m forever indebted to Orrin Woodward and the TEAM for turning my life and family’s lives around and giving us hope, purpose and actually backing it up with a plan to accomplish all of it.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
Don #231
You just proved the point, again! You stated that “…but I have done enough research to know their motives are pure and for the IBO.”
Does pure mean; perfect, flawless, absolute?
Go re-read #233. I’m not saying that A/Q/A is pure. They’re human as well. But what they are doing is, attempting to protect a company that has been almost 50 years in the making, imperfections and all.
Don, let me ask you this. What happens 12 years from now when YOU have a million people in YOUR organization? Then, for whatever reason you want to “split?” Should the corporation that aided you in becomming a multi millionaire then bow to your demands? Then what about the next guy, and the next guy?
When you do your homework, you’ll find that this isn’t new. It’s the story of the prodical son repeating itself…
I’m not saying that Orrin isn’t free to chase his dream. But to destroy the one that provided you the opportunity…? Not much integrity there.
Proof???? Go read all the negative A/Q/A blogs, who taught these people to think this way?
The truth will set you free! (but, it may be a little painful at first)
August 13th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
TEAM has been in business since 1999! We’ve been building our businesses the exact same way since then. Why does Quixtar wait 8 years to start throwing stones and pointing fingers? The answere is simple. GREED! As long as the money is coming in, let’s not rock the boat. However, as soon as word is out that the TEAM leadership isn’t going to stand idly by while Quixtar goes against several ethical principals that the TEAM is founded on and call them out on it, Quixtar turns on them. Sounds like there’s some next generation “spoiled brats” running the show at Quixtar who have no sense of integrity or character. We are taught on the TEAM: “If you are not a person of integrity and character, you will be found out”
……. Hey Quixtar, PEEKABOO, the TEAM see’s you!
August 13th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
The Postma Memo and the Directly Speaking tapes discussed a very serious issue - the tool business.
The Corp. tried via the Directly Speaking tapes to rein in the tool business. LOS Kingpins brought financial pressure to bear on the Corp. in retaliation.
Bo Short/Team in Focus was working to fix the tool system. LOS Kingpins brought pressure to bear and Bo Short/Team in Focus got booted.
Bruce Anderson got involved in a Mexican stand-off involving the tool business and got crucified. Ironically, one of the guys who helped put Bruce out of the business and ended up with Bruce’s business is now out of the business.
The Corp. is now attempting to do what it should have done as early as 1983. Are they without blame in all this mess? No.
August 13th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
WOW!!
Don #231
Read Rebekah #276
Now if that doesn’t make you stop and THINK, something is bad wrong!
This blogger (and soooo many others) actually believes that he/she is LOST without Orrin. Can’t possibly make it to the promise land if not for his courage. He is, after all, a modern day Moses!
This is sounding more & more like a Democratic campaign blog. “The hopeless masses can’t make it without the help, direction and support of the all powerful leaders.”
WAKE UP people! A/Q/A is not in the business of leading anyone anywhere! They provide an OPPORTUNITY! You are FREE to take it or leave it!!!! Orrin TOOK it to the tune of MILLIONS$$$$
He played by A/Q/A rules to get his MILLIONS!
Now he can play by A/Q/A rules to leave!
Excuse me for NOT wearing my TEAM blinders today…
August 13th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
I have researched quite a bit on the internet around the two positions, and it seems as if the TEAM had a premeditated decision to start their own product company, supplying their organisation they built using Quixtar, with products from their own supplier company.
That is why they had a law-suit ready, and that is why the law suit “only” demands that their downlines be able to use suppliers other than Alticor.
Now there is no way that you can expect Alticor to give up control over the products that go into their distribution channel: They have painstakingly, over decades built up a reputation for premium quality products.
To the IBO’s in the TEAM organisation, I only have this advice: decide whether you are in the product selling business, or the leadership development business. For the first, stick with Alticor, for the second, consider TEAM.
But remember, without product, where is your income coming from?
August 13th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
WOW!! What an unfortunate mess.
Both parties are guilty at various levels.
The things Orrin and Chris have been fighting for were going to help all IBO’s including the new guy/gal (prices, name change etc). This has been going on for a long time. They really are GREAT guys with a great vision, BUT are guilty of a couple things. They (Team) for years argued as to how Quixtar was NOT a phyrimid scheme and come up with many justifications for the prices at weekly opens, seminars etc. Now that the things they have been fighting for did not work out their Class Action court document accuses Quixtar of being a phyrimid scheme and way overly priced. I agree with the latter but guys you know Quixtar is NOT a phyrimid scheme as you always passionalty expressed. Orrin and Chris have showed high levels of integrety…I hope they don’t compromise it as they move forward with this drawn out emotional legal process. I think Orrin, Chris and the rest moreso walked away than were let go. They believed so much in the vision they were willing to start fresh than go forward with a
product line that couldn’t be widely retailed with a company called Amway again.
Quixtar…what a unprofessional statement about Orrin and Chris. A company of your supposed stature should not write something so childess ” on the internet. The Team business practices had been going on for years with your knowing. If something was wrong then your also guilty for allowing it to happen for so long. And yes your prices make it almost impossible to build a retail business outside of a couple family members or close friends who want to help you with your business. Less $ per item but more volume is better than more $ per item with less volume. Logic 101…WAKE UP!! As for going back to the Amway name….come on, it’s hard enough to promote a MLM as it is let alone going back to the Amway name with STILL so much negativity attached to it justifiably so or not.
If Quixtar goes back to the Amway name and continues with its current pricing this could be the beginning of the end for this old company.
It may be time for a new MLM giant and it may just be run by the leaders of Team.
August 13th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
If you are seeking truth:
Time Warner is releasing a Leadership book called The Leadership Revolution. If you want to discern for yourself the truth about these 2 men Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady, read that book. It will tell you what you need to know about them as people and leaders.
Don’t worry that you’ll be lining their pockets if you buy it because they are donating the profits to a charity. If you are still concerned, you’ll probably find that all growing churches, businesses and successful people in every leadership capacity will own a copy, so just borrow it. Maybe the library will have it or you can browse through it at the book store.
You owe yourself the read if you’re looking for the truth.
August 13th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
You just trash talked your own business, Alticor. What a horrible mistake!
August 13th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
I have been associated with Amway since the late 60’s and I am now a Quixtar IBO. I have never had a bad experience with either company. I have had the pleasure to meet Rich DeVos and I can think of no man that was and is still devoted to the ideal that Amway/Quixtar hold themselves to.
I have never met Orrin Woodward or Chris Brady, so I can neither disparage either their persons or their business practices. But if either are wrong and they were/are violating rules of conduct that have been approved by the Boards of Directors, it is just as well that they are gone.
I can remember when Bo Short did the same thing that Woodward/Brady did and to my knowledge his venture failed. I happened to have been contacted by one of his downline and I looked at what they were offering and saw that it would probably be short-lived. It was.
I am with another team and not TEAM. We utilize team building concepts and it has been very successful. The difference is that the team I am a member of is very cognizant of “stacking” and as far as I know, it has not been done and is not condoned.
This too shall pass and the business will be better for it.
August 13th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
Hey guys, go back and read Mike 57. I have price comparison’s at all the locations near me in a 50 mile raduis. (walmart etc…) Are you telling me your upline (TEAM) never showed you one? The daily was 41 and now 21 dollars. the cost comparison’s on 12 basic products gals use every day/week/mos are 300 bucks cheaper if you buy from your self versus go down to the store. I update these cost compares every 6 mos. We kill the competition with higher quality, longer lasting, consentrated products. I would blow any of your complaints about products away.
That’s not what we are talking about, miss daughter of a diamond. You are a daughter, but probabley never build the business past your own personal use. If you agree with orrin and brady, you are justifying there cheating ways. You might be growing faster, but your cheaters! Keep cheating and you’ll be kicked out too. Most of you have never run a business, so you say stupid things like; they lowered the pv or profit. What happen’s when dad owned a business and the government changes the deal on interest, insurance, regulate’s us out the wazzo…. do you think profit does change after awhile. not much with quixtar, but it is still a business.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
JUST quit already! If you want out so bad just quit. I am so tired of hearing moan and groan about not being able to leave…SSSHHHH just go!
August 13th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Correction:
The Book is called “Launching a Leadership Revolution”
It’s interesting that this Blog is titled:
Just go, Team
because that’s exactly how this started. Chris & Orrin asking to peacefully let the IBO’s go, free to pursue their dreams, starting the next day. Quixtar decided to Martyr Chris & Orrin. Then the lawsuit was filed, soon followed by 13 more martyrs.
They tried for years as our representatives to fix it from within. If Doug & Steve really believe Team has such illegal practices, and thousands upon thousands of people built really successful businesses with these illegal practices, they should be happy to release all who want to asap, with no strings. They should want to let go of this thorn in their side, this blemish on their reputation.
What are they afraid of? That they’ll succeed rapidly beyond all comprehension becoming larger than Quixtar in the U.S Just like there dads did to Nutrilite with Amway.
Last point for now: Alticor/Amway prides itself on the fact that Rich & Jay started with a handshake. For 47 yrs they didn’t feel a need to tie people to non compete clauses, If you’re so sure of your new trasformation for the future, you should be confident you can do it without anyone who doesn’t buy in without trapping them. If you believe in your plan, let them go, you don’t need them. If you don’t believe you can do it without the whole “Team” IBO’s, it’s a bad plan
Team would like to “Just Go”
Just Let Team Go, Alticor/Quixtar/Amway
August 13th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
I feel like the corporation has kicked me in the gut reading their stance. I also feel bad for IBO’s outside of Team because they are only getting one very biased side of the story. Every business has a Product, System, How and Why. Fist, Every IBO knows the WHY is the most important. The product will never stand alone at least at the current pricing and product in a MLM is incidental. The SYSTEM and HOW are the most important pieces. Alticor should remember what makes McDonalds #1. It’s their System not the hamburger. I have tasted much better hamburgers. Alticor is the product and they want to tell me how to build my business and I doubt if anyone from the company is coming to help me show plans in my group. The “Product” doesn’t care if I make more money just that I move more product. I would tend to follow someone who only makes money if I make money. Second, Alticor said they didn’t like the way Team builds the business but it is not unethical or illegal. I’ve built the business out side of the Team System and within the Team System. What Team does is not stacking if done correctly and is far better than telling the new guy to sponsor 9 to 20 personal IBO’s and see what sticks, knowing most won’t because they can’t get enough help.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
I have gotten the exact same response to Quixtar that I used to get with Amway. Face it, most people just aren’t looking for a business opportunity. Or at least this type of business opportunity. Whenever I have lead with the business, I have fallen flat on my face. When I lead with products, my business takes off again. I am focusing on building a very large retail business. Then, when I do get someone started in the business, I am going to teach them how to build a very large retail business. I have found that my customers are much more loyal than my IBOs ever were.
Anyone who says our prices are too high has never used Pursue Disinfectant Cleaner. (TEAM members are probably saying, “We have a disinfectant cleaner? I didn’t know that.”) It costs WAY less than Lysol Concentrate on a per-use basis. Our LOC Glass Cleaner concentrate is less expensive than Windex and does not contain ammonia. SA8 powder costs a lot less per use than Tide and the SA8 Liquid is almost even to the penny with the liquid detergents at the store. Most of our Formucare medications cost less than the name brands at the store, some considerably less. Even less than at Wally World. And I do not compete with them and I never want to. Ever gone into a Wal-Mart at 5 in the morning? It’s scary. It’s not the type of customers we want, trust me.
Yes, the Nutrilite prices are too high. I just make sure that I stagger the purchase of my supplements. An inconvenience? Yes. So is taking a shower everyday, but it sure beats stinking.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
a better way and system. they pyrated another organizations training materials at there meetings and handed it out for free. Just 2 weeks ago, milwaukee wi. Oh these men are something all right…. I am having a hard time with appropriate words to discribe. are you guys kidding me? Do you not get it? This business is privately owned. That means some other mom & dad built it from scratch and it is there creation. They have a bigger responsibility than IBO’s do. That means the Government, for those of you who can’t figure it out. Orrin & Brady used, cheated, violated government rules and quixtar rules. I dont care if you like them. I don’t care if you don’t think they pay enough profit. It is there responsibility and business to determine that. Go start your own deal, see how hard it will be. Doesn’t give them the right to lie & cheat. they sued quixtar to get some type of benefit, i don’t know what it is. If you liked Orrin & Brady (I never did, I always saw the bodys of ibo who thought negative after dealing with them.) just remember. Just because an individual is nice or pleasant (has people skills) doesn’t mean they are folks of high character. Does’nt mean they don’t lie or cheat.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Quixtar owns Quixtar!!!! did you know that? That means, since they own the business, they can close the doors on there exclusive products. They cant even, shu… don’t tell anybody, change their name.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
I’d like to second what Bridgett said at the beginning of this thread:
“Yes!
Today, I am more proud than I’ve ever been before to be an IBO with the Alticor/Quixtar/Amway business!
Thank you, thank you, thank you—for doing what you did AND for letting the world know.”
Although I understand the sentiment of the orignial post, I agree – this Alcticor statement certainly could have been quite a bit more diplomatic. I’ve got to believe that most TEAM members are good people that have just been blindsided by the bad behavior of the leadership.
For what it’s worth, I’m part of one of the largest Q/A systems, and the word from my leadership has been 100% in support of this action against TEAM. You can’t break the rules and expect to never have consequences. To me, this is a big step along the road of cleaning up our image.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Based on what Alticor admitted to above, I think this proves the should release all IBO’s sponsored by Team who so choose on the basis that they were illegally registered, tricked duped, lied to. They really don’t qualify as having been given true information to make an intelligent decision and should not be held to their contract. Since Quixtar was aware of this for years, it’s their fault these IBO’s are trapped. In Alticors own words I quote:
“Not telling people they were signing up with Quixtar? Woodward would hide that fact from new Independent Business Owners as long as he could.
Making people think it was easy money? Same deal.
Telling people that Quixtar was merely a “supplier,” and not the company they were signing a contract with? Yup.
We’d told Woodward we had problems with the way he ran his business for years, and we worked methodically to bring those problems to resolution. We got ignored, we got lied to, and, boy, we got the runaround.”
So, Alticor/Quixtar, it sounds like to be honorable, you must let these people go, as you have admitted, they are illegally recruited and don’t really know what they signed up in. Be brave, give them a choice!!!!
August 13th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Really- all of this blog- it is a waste of your time! Go pick up a good book and grow as a leader because that is where TEAM is headed: they are showing themselves to be leaders and I can’t wait to see what exciting things they have in store for their IBOs!
August 13th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
#150 Dax — If Brad Duncan was against the way that TEAM built their business, then I have a very good question for you:
HOW COME BRAD AND JULIE DUNCAN WERE AT THE FREE ENTERPRISE LEGACY HELD IN UTAH LAST OCTOBER THAT ANNOUNCED OUR MERGER WITH TEAM????? He was there, speaking good things from stage (I own the CD and play it often becuase their story is so inspiring!) about Legacy and its leaders (including the much-aligned in this blog Past IBOAI President and Retired Double Diamond Don Wilson), and equally supportive of TEAM and its leaders (and Orrin and Christ and their wives were both there)!!!!! If he was so much against how we were doing things, WHY WAS HE THERE, SUPPORTING OUR MERGER??????
Next time, try finding out the truth BEFORE you speak.
Oh, and Bridget, I know Jim and mike personally, too. They are both Platinums. mike is a Founder’s Platinum, and Jim’s sponsor. They are cross-line to me under the same Diamond. I have known them for 10 years, and know them to be, as our Diamond and Double Diamonds are, loving and caring people of integrity, strength and impeccable moral character who would sacrifice everything for the people in their care. Leaders like that I follow anywhere.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Hello,
I was in the original Team Of Destiny (TOD) before Orrin and Chris changed it to Team, because of the bad publicity. They wanted to cover up the bad publicity by choosing simply “Team.”
When you search on the ‘Net for “Team of Destiny”, you will get a lot of the bad stuff for TOD. But when you search for “Team”, ……… which team is it?
You see how they wanted to cover up their bad doing? You cannot get anything for the search term “Team” because it’s too generic. Therefore, people being solicited in TOD won’t be able to find anything bad about them.
In any case, I left Quixtar once I found out how TOD was teaching me to build the business. I built 32 levels deep leg all by myself, and I couldn’t make any money. Then, I researched Quixtar and I found out that TOD or “Team” was teaching me to build the business against Quixtar’s policy.
All of the people that I brought in the business, dropped out because they weren’t making any money too. I was bringing people and the people were being stacked vertically downward under someone else.
Then I decided to leave TOD or now called “Team.” A year after, I joined Quixtar again with another team that was teaching to build the business the Quixtar way.
When I told my new upline how “Team” was building the business, his jaw dropped. He couldn’t believe that they were still in business. He told me that if I built the business the Quixtar way with all of the people that I sponsored, I could’ve been a Diamond by then. Instead, I had to start a new Internet Marketing business and use my Quixtar account under my new upline to only purchase products for myself. No one else wanted to follow me with Quixtar anymore after scam I got them into.
It was called the “Team” scam.
I will testify against “Team” and Orrin if a court asks me to because I lost 2 years of my life involved unknowingly into a non-legal business. I lost 2 years of my life missing my newborn’s life to accomplish nothing.
Orrin has to pay for that.
Quixtar is a good business but I built it the wrong way and failed thanks to Orrin.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
hi, I am Mike 57. not mike 114 who either does not understand the stacking rule.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
I am also Mike 291, 292, 293, and now Mike 294. I do not want you to think I am mike 114.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
If everyone who is applauding the corporation on this blog truly feels that they (the corporation)really needs to clean up all the groups and create a clean name again…then let them start with the rule of requiring 10 customers and THEN let us truly see how many are following ALL the legal rules and kick those who have not out of the business.
LET’S SEE…now how many are left? I am guessing but believe it would be NOT MANY.
If TEAM has been doing illegal practices,let us see Mr.Corporation where you filed complaints thru the years at them OR did the legal complaints take place the last couple days when you could see damage to your precious pockets!
August 13th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
Dudes and dudettes …
I’m an IBO - have been for almost 7 1/2 years. Not associated with TEAM - but have listened to some of their training material before on CD etc …
Basically a non compete is a non compete. Any company has it! Notice the ‘lawsuit’ is only asking for the non compete to be released! Crazy. Every company, and any job you have - requires this to be so.
The first principle of the business is FREEDOM! If you want to leave - do so. But don’t go with a lawsuit! This split is going to do basically no good for anyone - but will cause bitterness, hurt, confusion, and people will be lost as a result.
I’m ashamed anyone would try and ignore the Amway link to our business. We buy products - and we sell them. I have been able to sell products for years. Sure - Rolls Royce don’t sell as many as their cars as Toyota do - but they still sell em.
I’m praying for the TEAM, praying for leadership at Alticor, and hoping that people understand that this business is about freedom - not the lack of it! If you want to come - come. If you want to go - go. We will all stand before God one day and be judged - let’s not pretend we are God in the interim, judging others. If Orrin and his men made mistakes - love them through it - and hope and pray they can redeem themselves through His grace.
If Quixtar responded in appropriately, then again, love them through it, and understand - we are each works in progress.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
The Team has been in the, cheating, business since 1999. Do you think the Corp has come and tried to help the leaders of team change there practices. hmm…. I have only heard that three times since then, but I am sure there have been more.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
I think Quixtar did a right thing by throwing TEAM out! Their recruiting strategy is one of the worst than BWW (where I was sucked in). I had a bad experience with the TEAM recruiting.
Here is my story:
One day, I got a mail which resembled the ordinary junk mails with a title GET A FREE ORGANIZER FOR ATTENDING A FREE SEMINAR WITH FREE DINNER AND EARN MONEY USING GOOGLE, EBAY ETC. with the logo of Google, eBay and some other online merchants. I opened it. Unfortunately, it didn’t give much details about the seminar. It’s an invite for me and a guest where I can get free dinner and an organizer. I need to confirm my reservation by calling a toll free no. which I did out of my curiosity. Apart from the free dinner and organizer, I was really interested in the seminar focusing on making money thru’ google and eBay. Seminar was scheduled in BEST WESTERN at 6.00pm with a note to come 10 minutes early. So, me and my spouse decided to learn Google cash making as we were already fed up with the money spent on BWW “Tools” and high priced Quixtar products which are hard to sell. We reached there at 5.45pm, didn’t see anybody till 6.00pm. So we went to the reception and asked whether any seminar is scheduled at 6.00Pm. Then, they told that there is one at 7.00pm in R-101 which happens every week. Then, we called the same toll free no. and asked whether the seminar is canceled. The lady on the phone told that somebody will be with us soon. Out of curiosity, we went to R-101 where the seminar is scheduled. You know what, we were shocked to see a printout pointing to TEAM seminar on the door. That rang a bell. I heard about this TEAM as a Quixtar motivational organization like BWW, Network 21, Worlwide Dream Builders etc.
I was really pissed off- What a bunch of crooks? They want to recruit for Quixtar by sending invitation mentioning about MAKING MONEY THRU’ GOOGLE EBAY ETC.
Good that Quixtar threw them out. Now I am seeing a lot of comments from TEAM members here that Quixtar crucified some “Jesus” from TEAM who intended to become a world savor. CRAP!!! What a bunch of crooks? They got what they deserved. No more crooked tears TEAM! Get a life somewhere else and screw somebody else!
August 13th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
To Answer Ri61:
Yes, Orrin acted in the best interest of all IBO’s! what kind of question is that? If you want to stay with A/Q, then cool. If you don’t and you want to pursue elsewhere, then he is paving the way for you to be able to do that.
Yes, Orrin is acting in the interest of every single IBO affiliated with Team. I must ask you, what harm did he do. Again, people can follow and people can leave, he is acting to remove restrictions.
And, yes, Orrin acted in the interest of his own business as well as everyone elses. Again, for the third time, he is fighting to remove the restrictions placed on EVERYONE. What ever happens next happens. But one thing is for sure, that no one except ourselves can make a decision to follow or stay, to quit or to act. Either way, he is just making it truly possible for everyone to be able to make their own decisions without having Big Q breathing down their neck.
So, Ri61…I ask you this. What harm did he do you by fighting for you to have this right, even at his expense with money and slander that would come at him.
Truth is…he didn’t hurt anybody. People could get hurt, but that is purely people’s own decision.
People:
Don’t misconstrue anything going on right now…we don’t know what’s going on. Nobody does except for the parties involved and it is pure speculation from there on. It is merely a waste of time to determine what’s going to happen, and who hurts who, and who benefits what, etc. because we don’t know.
All that we know is that he is trying to get restrictions lifted off of us, and whether or not we need that, he should be applauded for sticking his neck out on the line..for even people who don’t appreciate it. He may be acting for himself, but he is definatley acting for us as well. After that, nothing else has happened.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
And I want to thank who ever is blotting my messages. I did call mike 114 an _______, so they took it out. thats cool. Everybody in prison is innocent. Write TEAM? Your all a bunch of _______, all of you. good bye!
August 13th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
As far as brad duncan. Brad has done lots of stupid things, but atleast he changed. Atleast he ain’t no cheater. I am sure he met your guys and did not know your were cheaters. He probabley wanted to get to know them, so that down the road he could guide them from a life of cheating. Cause that is what TEAM does best. Team of Destiny! thats who you cheaters really are. Something for nothing-thats what you sell!
August 13th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Just take a step back: Orrin and his partners wanted to start their own MLM.
Do you expect Quixtar to roll over and just hand the IBO org to TEAM. A group that has been built over the years based on the very large range of very high quality products? Serviced and supported by Quixtar.
All these IBO’s that will go from company with a track record decades old, to one with no track record, no products? The company that supplies my products will never sell me out like that, just because my upline has decided to go into competition with them.
And if TEAM thought they could just walk in and demand a substantial distribution channel to be handed over to them, they were either naive or arrogant.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Mike: We appreciate your (and everybody’s) participation. We just want to keep it orderly.
As you were…
August 13th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
#233 Dad: What did you think about what was said at Achievers 2005?
Were you there? I was… I go every year!
I guess I am strong enough to qualify for Achievers and above Q-12, how about you?
It may be Alticor that who has made the “Enron” mistake…
Who thinks bringing back Amway solves the image problem? Sounds like Altico hired the marketing guy that introduced “New Coke” for Coca Cola… or maybe bringing back Amway is the only way to avoid the issues noted in the complaint…
If Amway is legit (and it is or was…) then by going back to the name Amway could help them hide behind the 1979 FTC Ruling. Think, use your wonderful mind to think through the issues noted in the complaint.
#234 If Quixtar warned them over and over then why did they send them to Peter Island over and over and send them lots of money over and over?
#250 Would better pricing help you sell more products and add more distributors? This move is to help the whole industry. Not just Quixtar but every MLM that starts with over priced products…
I think this is Bigger than anyone thinks it is. I will be interesting to watch it play out in court. It will be interesting to see how the FTC views this complaint.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Quixtar let us leave.
Open the iron bars, we will never come back, your old time IBO’s can
stay, we don’t care, we don’t want them. Let us go.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Check out www.businesswire.com Type “Quixtar” in the search box and hit enter. Quixtar already officially changed their name back to “Amway” back in July as far as the books go. Their is also an outside article about the lawsuit.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
I am a new IBO and PROUDLY a part of TEAM. Being a part of TEAM means being in business for myself but never BY MYSELF! I LOVE knowing that I am never alone in this. Since being a part of this “TEAM”, I have grown mentally and spiritually. I’ve never once been made to buy any material that I did not want to buy. The books I’ve read and CDs I’ve listened to have taught me how to be a leader, how to make friends, and how to deal with people. The last time that I checked, that is not something that is a bad thing for ANYONE to learn. Rather than bashing Orrin’s character, let’s look at the truth of the matter. Do any of you who are bashing him realize that the sales for these books go to charity?! I am a single Mom of two little boys; one of which has three mental disorders which he takes expensive medications for. I struggle from paycheck to paycheck to keep the utilities on and food on the table. There had been times that I had lost all hope. I had even lost my faith in God. IT IS BECAUSE OF TEAM that my hope and faith has been restored. The people affiliated with TEAM have cared more about me and my children and our well being then some of my own blood relatives. I commend Orrin and the other TEAM leaders for standing up for ALL IBOs. He only wanted things to be fair and easier for ALL IBOs to sale. If Quixtar or Alticor cared like the TEAM does about people out there like me who face these types of hardships, they would lower the prices to become more competitive making it easier for those of us out there moving their products; that’s ALL IBOs, not just those affiliated with TEAM. I like the products but as a single Mom, do feel that the prices are very high and I am struggling to maintain this business because of the pricing of the products. THANK YOU ORRIN and all the other members who have resigned TEAM from Quixtar. Its people like you that really care and people like you that make a difference. Then again, that is our motto right?! Have fun, make money, and MAKE A DIFFERENCE! I’ll follow my TEAM (my family) anywhere. Afterall,
“T”ogether “E”veryone “A”chieves “M”ore!!! GO TEAM!!!!!!!
August 13th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
most of us IBO’s don’t have all the facts. We are assuming way too much with all of these blogs being written.
The main fact of the matter is that Alticor’s statement above will hurt them more than it hurts The Team.
Another thought, many big diamonds and emeralds are joining the Team. Just a thought to ponder.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
lets say alticore was right. I see lots of slandering of orrin and the team from Quixtar but show me where the Team leaders are slandering quixtar. The truth is your not gonna find the leaders of team posting immature remarks about Quixtar. Why? I have found that if someone knows that they are wrong they will do all they can to tear the other person down to make themselves look better (choleric) or hard headed. So why aren’t team leaders doing this? Because they know in time people will see the truth. If orrins depth building was so bad than ask yourself why team was the fastes growing organization out there? Think about it.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
#306. No that is not what they want. They want the ability to take there whole group now and try to steal other lines of sponsorship now! If you have six mos of no compete, the other lines of sponsorship will get the whole story. The ethical folks from TEAM will get the whole story. Allow lines of sponsorship time to train there folks properly and educate why the problem existed. The guys getting the boot, want to make more money in tools and bring there exsisting groups over to some shell of a business, and tarnish amway/quixtar’s name. They are not doing it because they are holy. They have been cheaters and saw the writing on the wall.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
#308. Don’t even mention the World Wide Dreambuilders with Team. They do not decieve anyone.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
guys, go back and read #57, 291, 296!!! what don’t you get folks! Team-if you never did this or were taught and didn’t know this. Then fine. Anybody active in team, knew the info was going on-you are a crook and a something for nothing person-handing out fantisy. This is not a get rich quick. You can build a solid never looking back organiztion in 12-18 months. go back and read, this actually happened. This is wrong-no matter how you shake the stick. It is willfull rebellion, lieing, stealing, cheating… Give me a Break
August 13th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
#309 Ann Crystal — If that is what happened to you, and the TEAM sent the mailing to you, someone is doing something wrong, and WILL be disciplined by their LOS. I am very sorry this happened, IF it was someone on TEAM responsible for it.
Have you considered that perhaps the meeting you wanted to originally attend was changed, and you were not informed? I am leaning strongly in that direction as a possible scenario in your situation. Please consider it.
When I mentioned mike in my previous post, it was mike #114 to whom I was referring. As a Founder’s Platinum who qualifies every year, I think he does understand some things. Tell me, vitrolic Mike 322 (among others), what are you??? And, if you are not personally associated with Brad Duncan, how can you have the unmitigated gall to speak for him, or worse, to know his thoughts? Please, let him and those closest to him speak for him! As a Triple Diamond, I am sure he’s more than capable.
When I became an IBO almost 10 years ago, I did not sign any non-compete clause, because THERE WAS NONE. They slipped that in under our noses without telling us about 3 years ago. This company was founded on the principles of morality, free enterprise and choices. That clause takes away my choices. Talk about your immoral and unethical business practices . . .
August 13th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
My husband and I have been Amway Distributors for 21 years and Quixtar IBO’s for 8 years and have watched a very disturbing trend for the past 15 years, and that is the shifting of bonuses by squeesing bonuses from the front line IBO’s and lower pins, and then padding and adding bonuses to the larger pins. This has been done in two ways.
1. PV has been lowered time and again, forcing bonuses upward.
2. The Incentive program has added new bonuses at the very top levels every year.
The result of this is to “buy off” the biggest pins to go along with Alticore’s policy of high prices and to look the other way as the company robs the smaller pins.
We would like to see a reversal of this trend so that new IBO’s and hardworking pins at the lower levels have enough money to stay alive till they do reach higher levels.
So we are happy for anyone who is rattling the cages of Alticore, Amway and Quixtar to provide a more equitable deal for us. We hope this dissention continues until changes are made.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
How many of you have had Randy Haugen in to speak at your conferences?? How many of you on other teams have been helped by their CD’s? Randy & Valerie Haugen are part of these 15 incredible leaders who were terminated.
How many of you have had Billy Florence in to speak? Billy & Peggy Florence-that’s like baseball and apple pie to America. Have their CD’s helped build your business even though you’re on a different team? They are part of the 15 who have been terminated.
You need to really think about this. These men and women have proven their hearts and their integrity to many of you over the years. They are fighting for you.
It’s easy to make Orrin the scapegoat here. But this is alot bigger than Orrin.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Hey # 320. Your point almost makes sense! If the leaders knew this was going down, which they did, and never told there groups. If they were in the wrong. You think they would stand up and say that now. go back and read my 57-291-296. Those things actually did happen.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Wow when i first read this blog post I thought it must be some child or disgruntled team IBO that was posing as Alticor, having gotten the link from another site. It really upsets me to see such hostility and immaturity in this response. There will be no renewal or future association with this company for me. Hopefully Orrin and Chris can find a new supply company.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Let me tell you people something,think about this for a minute before you bad mouth Alticor.Number one they have provided all of us with the opportunity to be in business for ourselves.They dont sell behind our backs which contrary to what some idiots think they easily could do and make far more money but they have never sold out on us.Go to shaklees website you can buy anything you want without being a distributor oh and by the way their prices are way higher than Amway or Nutrilite but some how they still manage. Go to the Fuller Brush website same deal you can purchase without being a distributor.Wake up people Rich and Jay are men of integrity and so are doug and steve.The tool scams need to end so we can move forward.You never saw Alticor try to profit from tools and seminars the convention costs $15 not $500. Those people will fail because they want to take not give.
August 13th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
once again… show of hands… who sells retail?
August 13th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
There’s a lot of myths and falsehoods being spread here, by both side. I’ve just addressed a few on my site in the post Cutting through the PR and BS, including the following -
1. MYTH: Stacking is illegal
2. MYTH: Stacking is against Quixtar Rules
3. MYTH: Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady resigned before they had their contracts terminated
4. MYTH: Primarily internal consumption makes Quixtar an illegal pyramid
5. MYTH: The products can’t be retailed
The Truth About Amway and Quixtar
August 13th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
I am in complete shock that a company such as Alticor (Quixtar)(Amway) would ever make a statement(official or otherwise) that would reflect the negativity that was released. Totally embarrssing, unprofessional, and unbecoming for a company of this magnitude!! Your father’s would have never been so careless. So much for the bolstering of a good name and reputation. Understand one THING, the reputation for this business has already and will continue to fall because of this, as well as, when it goes back to being AMWAY. I feel sorry for the Slap in the Face the Team took and for all IBO’s who are currently active outside of Team..
August 13th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
Rico 104 and like minded individuals(IBOs) I hope you understand that the fasteset growing group for all of Quixtar’s existence is being swept aside. Do you think there is any help to our businesses when you slash our overall market share and business volume, in favor of having big profits for the owners and not a good product, price, and reputation for all IBOs?
August 13th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
I might be able to retail if I lived somewhere with insane pricing that makes these items the most affordable!!
August 13th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
The libelous allegations by Quixtar, and lemming-like repetition of them by pro-Qixtar bloggers, that TEAM uses illegal depth-building methods are easily answered by the fact that Quixtar itself provided me with the “SA-4400 Quixtar Independent Business Owner Compensation Plan”, bearing Quixtar’s own copyright notice, “(c) 2007 Quixtar Inc.”, clearly describing TEAM’s method, which all TEAM IBOs use.
Further, TEAM’s lawsuit describes the structure of the business up through Alticor’s founding families, and it is from that level that it constitutes a pyramid, since the founding families totally control the pricing. The lawsuit explains that the Alticor profit-margins built-in to the pricing points of the products, put the IBOs at a competitive disadvantage, such that virtually all profit and growth for IBOs result from new sign-ups who self-consume, with the vast majority of the profits going to the founding due to the Jay-factor.
The lawsuit as a whole does not claim that the illegal, pyramid-producing, profit disparity was always present, but results from the intense market pressure caused by the dramatically increased price breaks to consumers at the brick/mortar retail level over the past several years. And please, folks, we aren’t just talking about Walmart prices anymore. Sam Walton is just the guy that started the revolution. And we aren’t talking about cheap, no-name products, either. The whole world isn’t shopping at Costco and Walmart just for a good deal on obviously cheap merchandise. Please wake up.
It is no answer to the price problem to say that our eco-friendly soap, and high-line make-up actually have a market. Good for you, if you are successfully marketing those products. You go ahead and stick with Hudson’s. My family likes to shop at Costco, Kroger, Kohl’s, and, yes, even Walmart, and many others. All of those stores have high-quality, name-brand products. None of my friends own Rolls Royces, or Ferraris, or Bentleys. Most of them own Chevys, Toyotas, Fords, and a couple of Volvos, so they all shop at Costco, etc., and know a good deal when they see one. Quixtar is not a good deal for their families, and they know it.
As for the non-compete clause, my legal opinion is that it is too broad, and therefore it is probably unenforceable as written. It has no geographical limitation. Also, since it is Quixtar’s contract, and it is not presented to the IBO until Quixtar mails the Biz Reference Guide after sign-up, and it is not specifically referenced in Quixtar’s own IBO Registration form, and it is so draconian in its scope, I am confident that it is simply not part of contract and is unenforceable for that reason as well. There is only a reference to a “six-month inactivity period” before a former IBO can re-apply in a different LOS within Quixtar. I appreciate, however, the efforts of Orrin Woodward, et al., to secure a legal ruling in federal court, so that none of us are jumped from behind by Quixtar and forced to incur thousands of dollars in legal expenses, if we decide to leave. That’s the purpose of a class action lawsuit.
Go, TEAM, go!!!
August 13th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
stacking is illegal the way team was doing it.
August 13th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
“Those with integrity expect to be believed, if they aren’t, they let time prove them right!”
August 13th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
#328. you probabley have a tough time doing 100 pv. You haven’t made a decision. This is not what your going to do for a living. You must be a member of TEAM. You haven’t had to
over come objections, attitudes, bad experiences of good people, because they experienced this opportunity with TEAM. Countless hours, time managed, waisted plans; with otherwise good folks that would have or had potential to built the business. I would ventour it would be negative. If you knew how to build the business properly and were active. Boy, I am going somewhere else… Your niave boy……. good luck
August 13th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Retailing is a requirement. Thats Why World wide teaches it. Required by FTC
August 13th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
#331 ibofightback — Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Billy Florence, Chuck Goestchel and the rest of the Heroic Band of Eight RESIGNED from their positions on IBOAI Board PRIOR to the meeting with Quixtar’s lawyers. Not the DeVos and Vanandel sons, but their head-hunting corporate lawyers. Period. That’s historic FACT. They did it at the close of the emergency Board meeting on August 9th.
They were NOT terminated by Quixtar proir to their RESIGNATIONS from the IBOAI Board. It was only AFTER that, during the PRIVATE meeting the termination papers were presented as an accomplished fact.
If you’re going to publish the facts, particularly on a public site like yours, please at least first get them straight and right. There is enough misinformation going on around here.
August 13th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Mike #327 (among others), you still haven’t answered my question.
What’s your pin level??
Here’s mine — I was a frustrated 2500 (who wore what she often didn’t own) before Legacy joined with TEAM. Now, I’m a happy 2500 (who is qualifying consistently again at higher levels, much closer to what I wear) whose group is growing like never before, all thanks to a system the corporation said was legal and viable for the last 8 years.
August 13th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
World wide headed that initiative and blue the doors off it. That’s why 75 dollars or more get free shipping now. part of the comp plan. Thanks I appreciate the word on retail.
August 13th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
Read this post on BusinessWire:
08/10/2007 - 02:56 PM
Amway Sister Company, Quixtar Inc., Sued by Distributor Group Represented by
Shughart, Thomson & Kilroy
August 13th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
Before commenting on compensation look at the new QBI for just posted. It is a massive increase for ALL levels, not just bigger pins. As a matter of fact they have to delay getting compensation while their downline do not. Perhaps this program which was worked out with IBOAI participation forced Team’s hand now as they loose many of their excuses to drag their downline into another MLM.
Our system has been pushing for more competetive products to retail but at the same time pointing out many that are competetive today. We tested the $75 order/free frt for customers and it created a huge uplift in retail sails. Just because some individuals choose not to sell to retail customers does not equate into all. Many of us do.
August 13th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
PLease read todays posting on “The Real Quixtar Blog”, Monday, August 13, 2007
Category: Opportunity, Transformation
“Meanwhile, the (Quixtar)Sales team is contacting leaders at the Platinum level or above within Team and other affected organizations, reaching out to them, inviting them to continue their Quixtar businesses, and seeking assurances they will build ethical businesses within Quixtar’s rules. We’re glad to see that the vast majority of those contacted see the value in the Quixtar opportunity and the safeguards provided by the Rules of Conduct to preserve and protect the hard work of many IBOs”.
Question to all of you: Why does Quixtar sales contact these leaders within TEAM now? Is it because Quixtar has a different support to offer than in the past? Or because Quixtar is trying to undermine TEAM’s wish to build an ethical and people orientated business?
I was contacted and heard bad mouthing stories about my upline and the TEAM.
TEAM doesn’t contact anybody through the back door. They use the front door with facts and not gossip! We don’t sell! We build a foundation of trust that others can build their future on.
August 13th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
The people you have terminated were legends in the business , it’s never good to bite the hand that fed you. Team will succeed without quixtar because it’s true that Quixtar is nothing more than a supplier. Please don’t bash people that will never bash you.
August 13th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
I do, So does all of Worldwide Dream Builders. Which ran a test program for Quixtar. free shiping for new Ibos (within 90 days) as long as the order is over 75$ they came to us with this iniative and we nailed it. The company, quixtar is giving all new ibo (for 90 days) and customers (wholesale and retail) free shipping over 75$. Tell me, the are money hungry; why would they do this for us. money they already make, but give it up so that the customer gets it free. Wow, here is an idea, maybe they want us to make more money. 10 million dollar value. to new ibo’s it is huge, they can legitimize their business and afford in the 1st days to plug into any ethical training system.
I am, but then that is WW for ya. I am proud of retail. it helps the newest person help themselves. If anyone from TEAM ever heard of a cost comparison, they might be excited. No wonder TEAM is whining about products being to expensive. You don’t even know your competition, the full product line, why you versus walmart. come on guys, what the hell are you doing over there. I am thankful for WWdream builders. You guys probabley don’t even know about core.
August 13th, 2007 at 7:49 pm
Oh, buy the way. All organizations get to play in that deal. Thank you Jim Payne!
August 13th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
#331. mister myth man. Drive depth is ok, not stacking. If you have an ibo who gives you a names list and 10 of those folks get in, all are required to be in width to that new ibo. not stocked on top. He gets the credit for exposure of the plan properly to those individuals. Retail/wholesale/big business (the prospect decides)and you will get 50% or more say yes. If you merchandise, product demos. You can show it for him, but he should be there with you (if possible). train/show/let him do it for himself. You continue with that until you find someone who really wants to build. You start over and do it again. You through the ibo on top (plugged into a system and has seen you do everything) out the door as you build him a tap root. That is not stacking, that is building depth. establishing leaders along the way, well trained, able to stand on there own, plugged into a real training system, with help.
If you stack (like team does) those folks recieve ibo’s that they never new existed (something for nothing) and never referred those folks. I wake up and there are 15 people in my organization. How do I know my sponsor (i don’t) or i will shoot you an email with his contact info. You can meet him at the meeting. after four months you can build your own personal width. No wonder folks think it is a pyramid (there right-if they see team do it) I can’t even get mad! GIVE ME A BREAK! A loop hope, if I recall the term correctly.
August 13th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
You all better look at www.businesswire.com…They already changed the name back to amway in July
August 13th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
The choice is simply for us…..We believe in Team and will go wherever it lead us. Thank you Orrin and the other courageous men who are looking out for us. God Bless You !!!!!
August 13th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
If a divorce is coming, let’s not make every aspect of it public.
This blog is public and probably skewing the public’s perception of Quixtar, TEAM, Alticor, Great Eight, Amway, Legacy, whoever. I’m all for expressing one’s opinion. However,
It might be best if we all just contacted the people we’re loyal to and let them debate the issue in private.
Too many egos get in the way to defend our heroes, show people how smart we are, show them how loyal we are, and defend ourselves.
We’re like the couple arguing in the street while all of the neighbors are laughing at both of us. I’m not trying to silence honest communication, but maybe this isn’t the time and place for it.
If a couple needs to argue, it’s best not to do it in front of the children. It only hurts them. We’re hurting the young IBOs.
I’m enough of a realist to know that egos being what they are, both sides will keep going trying to have the last word. Maybe one side, will take the high road and and trust their leaders to work it out.
August 13th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Cathy #340 and mike #348 - did you bother reading the full post before you made your comments?
Cathy, my source for the resignation information is TEAM CEO Robert Dickie’s blog. It also refers to resigning from Quixtar, not from the IBOAI board. It is not 100% clear when that happened.
Mike, re “stacking” I made no comment on whether it’s “right or wrong” - and IMO that really depends how you do it - but purely on whether it was illegal and/or against the rules. It is clearly neither.
August 13th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
It is not a mark against someone if they are ignorant, for at one time or
another we are all guilty of it, however, it is really stupid if they choose
to remain that way ~ unknown
August 13th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
To Mike and Bridgett, you obviously have not been to any Team functions, seminars, or opens. Please stop the slander. We highly respect WW, and the rest of the organizations.
After reading most of the posts here I’ve come to one conclusion, everyone here wants Team out of the Quixtar business, INCLUDING Alticor. The only thing happening here is both businesses are getting a bad name. Time will tell the truth. Renewals are coming up. Quixtar has pushed me to that one. To be honest Alticore is the only one that knows of another MLM. I didn’t. Thanks for the tip Alticor.
To my fellow Team-mates stop defending Orrin and Team. Let the others express themselves how they want and then they’ll be done. You don’t see Orrin or Chris on here do you? They lead by example.
August 13th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
# 351- very well said.
August 13th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
Ya, argue until you find out what is really going on. If the other orgs new what TEAM was really doing… we have a high population of folks learning how to build this business in wisconsin (FROM TEAM) Maybe if folks do read this, they will find out the crazy crap going on in your organization. I am proud to be in World Wide Dream Builder, I know there are organizations outside of us who are doing things right and well. Most of BWW does things properly also. There are others. Maybe this is good to see other IBOs not agreeing. I have names and facts. I have personal organizations that have dealt with these issue’s. Gone to the meetings. A personal friend of one my legs was sponsored into TEAM. I am not making this crap up. This is real and it hurts everyone. They have been working with team for years and paying them for years; because they had to. They had to show they were making an effort on there part. It was time for the leadership to do there part. They cut bait and ran. and want Alticore to change there policies. What about the protection of our business. They got away with this stuff for years. The no compete is awesome.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:11 pm
Team leadership wasn’t going to change for no-one and that’s what Alticore had to deal with for years. They new the crap going on… They have been leant for all organizations. It’s time we all picked up the boot strapp’s and cared about our responsibility back to the two families that gave us this opportunity. They have been taking heat across the board for all of our short cummings. Retail has always been one of those areas. They have been patient. Great products. If you need cheaper-your an employee-not an business person. We are the cheapeist place on earth. with more value, more exclusive’s, and more money in the pot (comp plan) than any other opportunity on earth. I know that those families are just waiting for the chance to make it better. They will. It’s us-their waiting on. Do it more, Do it consistantly, do it right! Find out what core is-instead of these pirate cds. Hell world wide dream builder has never held out on any organizations. Recently though organizations have not shared with us. Ron Puryear freely given you all the keys to the business. Successfully and long term growth. He is a man of character. If you want it, you can get it.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
after thinking about what # 351 said I say this…
People we have all expressed for 350+ blogs how we feel and it comes down to there are those who support the corporations position and those who do not.
At this point, how about all who believe there is a God in heaven step away from this blog and take a little while and pray for the leaders across this ENTIRE business and for the corporation (concerning name change with the corp and concerning who to allign with concerning the leaders). For many of those leaders must make decisions that will affect hundreds of thousands of lives. Let us take a little time and instead of going back and forth here which truly helps none of us except give plenty of fodder for those who are not involved. And instead let us direct and hearts to ask God for supernatural wisdom to these people who will be making life changing decsions for all of us.
The best to all of you in your endeavors– it is time for me to go to God and blog with Him.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
#351. You have a point. But I am glad I was a part this conversation.
Note: Cathy, it’s good to see your positive affirmations! I am a few levels above ya. But your not happy if you do what team teaches. You’ve had to do an awful lot-on your own. Get the core CD, sponsor wide & learn to do/teach merchandising. It’s width and depth.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
Dad 283:
You just proved the point, again! You stated that “…but I have done enough research to know their motives are pure and for the IBO.”
Does pure mean; perfect, flawless, absolute?
Bad choice of words on my side, as when communicating over the interenet it does not permit the type of interaction you need to get your POV across… Orrin and Chris never said they were perfect, no one is… and I stated that hey neither are the leaders of A/Q/A..
Don, let me ask you this. What happens 12 years from now when YOU have a million people in YOUR organization? Then, for whatever reason you want to “split?” Should the corporation that aided you in becomming a multi millionaire then bow to your demands?
Great question… I do not think Orrin wanted this split to happen either, as I would not rather have it happen either… This is bigger than Orrin… 8 of the board members are out… WOW… Change needs to happen to take A/Q/A mainstream, where more people can be helped… It can not go to that level in it’s current state, so the board who represents the ENTIRE community were in complete agreement that something needs to happen…
Nobody likes change, but it is necessary for advancement and improvement… I think we all fight it every day as this world is changing… I think A/Q/A started out as an amazinng company and is still a good one, but they have lost touch with the folks in the living rooms, just like Rich and Jay thought Nutrilite did to them, so what did they do… they started Amway, then bought Nutrilite… Lets make no mistake this is not a ‘Bo Short’ inncident here, this is HUGE, not another prodical son story… Time will tell how it all plays out… in the mean time, lets say that neither you nor I know the entire truth and that we are both ultimately hoping and working for a better future for ourselves and others we care about…
Be blessed,
Don
August 13th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
#347 Mike,
Guess what! Free shipping. Quixtar did that for us a couple of years ago - we were the test market then. My guess is every time Leaders in a LOS question Alticor, Alticor throws them a bone. I guess they figure it will keep us quiet for a while, besides it worked before so why not try it again.
Do you realize that over 8 members of board that were elected by qualified Platinums and above all resigned. That board was elected to protect the best interest of IBOs. My quess is that every one of them were told the same thing over the last 7 years.
#300 Freedom Fighter,
Do you know what IBO means? Independent Business Owner affiliated with Quixtar. Read the compendium. Quixtar is just the organization providing the Content and Commerce side of your business; if you don’t believe me call the Business Rules Department on the 800 number during regular business hours. You are just an affiliate, the same as a website can have an affiliation with Amazon.com In our case we pay to be affiliated but it costs nothing to be an Amazon affiliate.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
#351 - Right on. This won’t be settled here. We all believe this industry will get us our freedom. We all want the same things. Lets just let the leaders work it out. In the end we all get what we want. We are not helping our future in MLM by blasting eachother here. Your prospects and ours will read all this “junk” after we show them the plan one day and then we have to face all “those” objections. It is tiring to read all this becuase we are all better than this. Hopefully you all agree. Thanks again #351. Good night and lets all go STP. Gosh all we work at we are destroying right here and now.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
Dad 286… She is obviously metaphorically speaking… people today are hungry for a true selfless leader, as you stated A/Q/A just offers an opty, nothing more, nothing less, you can take it or leave it, but we all know it takes leaders and a system to build any kind of income from this A/Q/A opty… so which is more important… your comments leave me to believe that you think the corporation and the opty is more important, I think they are both essential and right now equally important…
August 13th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
whoopty do #349. Do I care about the name AMWAY? It was the 1st company every to recieve the united nations environment award! Hello! They were worried about the environment even before al gore created the internet:) Sorry, I had to throw that one in…. Only 2 companies have ever recieved it. Amway (Rich & Jay) received the Haratio Alger award, the most coveted business award in the US (you can’t buy this one-rags to riches). Huge… Rich & Jay before Quixtar… Amway days, were told by the government to change three things. They set out to do what was right and make the neccesary changes. They made mistakes but changed them. Then the government said “you can’t keep those products exclusive to your ibo’s. You have to sell in stores. They said no. These are ours and for our distributors. They went to court against the government and won. The supreme court said AMWAY is not a pyramid and you can keep those products exclusive.” They could have lost it all. You TEAM guys don’t know anything about that. AMWAY this-AMWAY that. find out the real story. Find the supreme court ruling on that. They said they would use amway as the standard of MLM or network marketing business’s. There is more at stake then you know. The press wants to make them look bad, because they give the average joe a chance. Joe can tell the job/corp/ system to take a flying leap. The media hates them (they don’t give them $, competitors hate them (because they take market share. AMWAY (The american way) don’t need the system or the media. But we got to do things the right way. So what if you make mistakes, change…. TEAM leadership doesn’t care about that, never intendid to change, and had 8 years of paid time to change. It was time. We have a great story now, a great history, and I am excited for those who have guts to do what is right and press forward.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
Orrin didn’t invent team approach he only perfected it. Orrin and Chris were process engineers Orrin having numerous patents and a competitive benchmarking award.
Building depth as a team is the smartest way to get the new person at the bottom results. Amway was stacking long before Orrin came along.
Look at any other successful MLM today and they all are building in a binary manner.
10 people get in the business …isn’t it easier for 10 working together to get number 11 then spreading them all out seperately.
Especially when the first ten people the new person calls are all family and friends and know eachother. You think they should all compete against eachother, that’s foolishness.
Illegal business technique no.. just analyzing a failed method and improving it. Nobody has grown like the team thats why longtime diamonds were approaching Orrin and asking him to join. Amway was a sucked orange and Quixtar is now too
Orrin will be the Sam Walton of the internet.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
I have seen several posts which make good points on both sides which is what this blog is about. However, I have seen numerous posts by people that with blind rhetoric, in particular, this mike # whatever from WorldWideDreamBuilders. I have a couple of questions for you, #1: Where you taught integrity and honesty from Bill Britt? #2: It looks like you are doing nothing more than “shotgunning” accusations of which you have absolutely NO idea about. Perhaps it would be best if you were to find out about something before you speak and try to villify everyone and everything around you. All of us and in particular, you would turn out to be a lot happier. I try not to say anything bad about anyone and if I have I apologize, to you, or to anyone else.
“If you can’t say something good, then say nothing at all”
I will say one thing about this situation though, I have met most of the DeVos’ and the VanAndels, as well as most of the leaders in this business. Some of them numerous times and I will tell you that when I met every one of them I had the highest regard for them and their integrity. Without lessening the respect that I felt for each and every one of them, my regard for Don Wilson has no boundaries and in my opinion NO ONE has more honor and integrity than he does: NO ONE!!!
August 13th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2007/08/alticor_fires_15_quixtar_distr.html
This is an interesting article that appeared in the Grand Rapids Press regarding the events that are being discussed on this blog.
August 13th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
This issue is very intriging. Why is Quixtar so mad in their blog response? Because they are losing many great leaders. Why is TEAM leaving? They have been negotiating for a while and It is to the benefit of the workers (IBO’s) All in all TEAM’s business model is about inmproving one’s self and during the process helping other’s achieve the same. The product is only the product. They have also never decieved about quixtar. It is the hub for puchases. Think PEOPLE!!
August 13th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
Wow, I wonder what the Team IBO’s feel about their ’sacrifices” now? Nights gone from home, babysitters, money, contacts used, reputations on the line, and kids that are 2 or 4 yrs older than the last time you really enjoyed them. Now you are looking at starting it all over again - reaching for a dream that is highly unlikely. Spending time in other peoples living rooms not your own. Practicing verbiage to try and follow the letter of the law (truth) without being too truthful. Soften, twist, and spin it enough to make sure that your new target has a hard time putting 2 and 2 together!
4 yrs ago the writing was on the wall that ‘Quixtar’ was just a supplier and that Team would be willing to change if there was benefit in it. This is nothing new from them. It truly is hidden as long as possible the this is A/Q. I found out when I signed the forms but even then you are told it is different, that they are just the website, etc. It finally hits you a few meetings in what it is really all about.
Wonder where you would be if the money put into system, pv points, babysitters, and mileage were put into your retirement fund. Living a lie (fake it till you make it), thinking everyone else must be doing it better because you can’t be the only one with these results. How has the attitude you picked up from the team affected your livelihood. Do you resent it? Have disdain for regular working folks? Feel superior? How many of you ended up with debt from chasing a dream in a system (any mlm not just A/Q) that is designed for only a few to succeed. You do realize that you are all in competition? Eventually there are hard choices to make about what is good for me or for my team mate.
For the few that actually succeed…at what price? Who pays it? The 100’s or 1000’s that went into debt grasping at the vapors of truth you sent their way? How many must suffer for a few to make it?
I know many of you will say that TEAM improved your relationships and that it made you a better person. Do you think if you had put that same energy into yourself from what your church or grandmother tried to teach you that you would have improved too? Are you spreading your core values without an eye on the profit to be made? How many of you have hidden the true cost of this business system from your spouse? Is your J.O.B. subsidizing your system? Or is this business actually profitable. Profitable when you factor in your time? (I know, I know – you’re building a pipeline!) Have you traded a day job for a night job?
If this business has not worked for you - you are led to believe that you are lazy, a wimp, not dedicated and basically a loser. Your friends dump you as soon as you go off system and you are left believing their lies about yourself. You believe that everyone else must have different results than you and do not understand that the wordsmiths are spinning and twisting the truth. Fake it till you make it….Right up until the time they drop out of system they will tell you that they are making it (vaguely). They don’t want to hurt their team, upline, or look like they don’t have integrity so they keep the charade running. Shame keeps people quiet! The majority don’t make it and I don’t believe that those hundred of thousands are all lazy or don’t have integrity. Do you?
If you want to read inspiring books join a book club or engage in a bible study. Want to feel more rewarded in your life? Is your job not fulfilling enough? Find an interest that you have and volunteer. Surely there is a need you can fill. Each person has intrinsic value and doesn’t need to be part of a ’system’ to have that validated. I know many people will not even consider these thoughts because it is negative and therefore can’t be of any value. If I was one voice that might be true but look at the 1000’s and not just from Q/A or Team and see if there aren’t as least a few valid points.
August 14th, 2007 at 12:07 am
I find it ironic that only a couple people (who have posted alot) speak highly of retailing product. Everyone keeps posting with their passion and loyalty…let’s look at the facts. Fact: Several leaders of the Team were terminated, not the whole team. All other Team members still have a Quixtar business (the third grade schoolyard response from Alticor withstanding). Fact: Depth building is not and never was illegal the way The Team built their business (reference SA-4400 from Quixtar. Fact: The vast majority of the Quixtar product line is overpriced (someone will pick “the” product that is competitive and argue). Fact: people join the business model they feel comfortable promoting (just because they didn’t choose your organization doesn’t make them a crook). Fact: This whole mess is because a corporation created a board to represent the IBO and then repeatedly failed to listen (placing the boards integrity in question). Fact: If Quixtar wanted to keep me they would not have blasted the men that I know personally in a public forum on the internet. They would not have called my home and refused to tell me what would happen to me if I chose to stay and then start trying to destroy the reputation of one of the few men I can honestly say I admire. If you don’t know Chris Brady and Orrin Woodward you don’t have the right to comment on their intentions! I don’t have to speculate I have personally witnessed their Christian faith and firmly believe their accusation. Maybe everyone needs to drop their loyalty a little and consider…what if they’re right???
August 14th, 2007 at 12:09 am
If what Quixtar alledges is true, that the building practices were illegal, and have allowed it to continue for several years, then they have failed the IBO’s. They should be held responsible and have THEIR business terminated for failing to correct actions in THEIR business. After all, they keep reminding us this is THEIR business. THEY tell us how to build it. THEY tell us what tools we need to build our - I’m sorry - THEIR business. THEY got people started, some 30 years ago, with a good opportunity and good, competitive products. However, over time, when these men and women have built their livelihood on this business, THEY start tightening the vice. THEY start raising prices. If you have invested 10, 15, or 20 years in a business, built relationships with people that are family to you, are you going to walk away because of these people? Or are you, for the seek of the new IBO on your team that want’s to bring their wife home, going to stick it out, do the best you can to help them achieve their dream? If you up and quit, that is being a coward. The warrior stays and fights. These leaders that walked away have fought for each of us. It finally got to a point, though, that they saw there was no bargaining with the corporation. Therefore, they had no other choice.
In our free enterprise economy, if a companies prices are to high, and they don’t come down, they will go out of business. I use K-Mart as a good example. However, in this company, there is nothing you can do. My friends that are now part of Quixtar, I can never contact them about another opportunity, if Quixtar gets their way. Without the non-compete clause, Quixtar will truly be held to a system of checks and balances. Currently, there is none. Those of you that think their pricing is okay now, stay with Amway, and 5 years from now when you pay $50 for a gallon bottle of SA8 see what you say then. If you’re a Sapphire, or Emerald, what are you going to tell your people? Orrin and Chris, and all the leadership, never said buy over priced products. That is what DOT1 STEP is for. That line is competitive.
However, the final chapter will be when the DeVos’ and Van Andels change it back to Amway. When they do, they will ruin many businesses. For those of you who are loyal to the corporation - like you probably are your job - have fun. When you call me, and I tell you I want nothing to do with Amway, you can call the other 6 billion - but many of them - at least a Million - will be part of the TEAM.
Guys, hire Gallup and take a poll throughout America, of what people on the street think of Amway. But more importantly, think about those that are supporting you, feeding you, think about it. Here’s an idea - you should have people who can program that, on the order form where you place an order, have a link to an independant site - hire a law firm (not one that is your buddies) that has one question - do you want the name to change to Amway?
IBO’s, since that won’t happen, here’s an idea I will do. I will make a petition list, with numbers for each name, and petition 500 people. They will put their name on the numbered sheet, and I will give them a simple form, with a number, and they can print their name on it as well, and will ask them (1 - Have you ever had any contact with Amway? (2 -What is your overall impression of Amway - Positive or Negative? (3 - If someone contacted you and wanted to discuss Amway, would you want to listen? (4 - Would you want to be a part of Amway? I will then take these forms, scan and e-mail, as well as mail the originals, to the corporation. If the results are as I expect overwhelmingly negative, I will show Quixtar how their name change will damage my business. Because I am young, I could forsee a long business with Quixtar. Changing it will cost me long term economic damages. If enough IBO’s do this, it should be pretty overwhelming. You might also want to send a copy to the IBOAI board.
While I am not in Orrin and Chris’ organization direct, I am a better person because of their system. Build them man who buiilds the company.
August 14th, 2007 at 12:15 am
I resign from Quixtar. Where do I sign on to the new store. Can we take the XS with us? Except those small can’s. I like those big Monster can’s at the gas station! Hope the court’s get this over quick! Team will be the new leader with that low pricing Orrin’s talking about. Glad I didn’t buy a ton of tool’s or product. Real glad I didn’t sign up anyone to you all get your new thing going. This is some great entertainment to say the least!Oh yea…Can’t wait for the new book and the Oprah thing….It’s like it’s all been planned. Chris and Orrin are smart.
August 14th, 2007 at 12:32 am
Sorry, one last thought. If Quixtar is about us buying products and selling it to others, how does all the partner stores factor in? How am I supposed to buy something from Circuit City then turn around and retail it? Seems to me like it’s intended for self consumption.
I also wonder what is going to happen with all the partner stores as this hits the media. I have a feeling there will be quite a few making a quick departure.
August 14th, 2007 at 12:32 am
Our family’s support system transferred over to the TEAM system awhile back. Now reading all of this just reinforces my overall feelings. While I still like some of the products, I am so disenchanted with everything to do with the business. Who’s wrong and right, I really don’t care at all about any of it anymore.
August 14th, 2007 at 12:33 am
It’s clear to me where the truth lies in this matter. Just think about it:
The IBO’s that were terminated were IBO’s that were on the IBOA International Board. This is the group that serves to represent the best intrests of ALL IBO’s. Look at the list:
Don Wilson- Vice Chairman of Executive Committee, Member of Board of Directors, Member of Legal & Ethics Commmittee.
Randy Haugen- Member of Board of Directors and Business Operations Committee.
Chuck Goetschel- Member of Board of Directors and Legal and Ethics Committee.
Chris Brady- Member of Board of Directors and Legal and Ethics Committee.
Orin Woodward- Member of Board of Directors and Awards and Recognition Committee.
Billy Florence- 2 time Chairman of the IBOA Executive Committee and Member of the Governance & Oversight Committee.
I could point out a few things here but I’ll just focus on 2:
The Legal and Ethics Committee of the IBOA International Board is made up of 6 members. 3 of them, or 50% of them had their IBO affiliations terminated. Why?
Billy Florence has been elected Chairman of the IBOA International Board twice because of his character, integrity and commitment to do what’s right for ALL IBO’S. He was 1 of only 2 members on the Governance & Oversight Committee, which reviews IBOA Board actions and makes sure that it remains aligned with the principles of integrity, responsibility, and corporate governance. There were only 2 members of the Governance & Oversight Committee and again 50% of them were terminated. Why?
If the man who has served as chairman of the board that represents IBO interests for 2 terms and makes up 50% of the Governance & Oversight Committee has had his IBO affiliation terminated, there is a legitamate reason for all IBO’s to be concerned.
If you read the case that was filed against Alticor, the truth will be clear to you too.
August 14th, 2007 at 12:39 am
All I can say is either loyal or you are not! Something I learned from the best team in the USA - the U.S. Marine Corps. They also taught me that change comes from within, not by dragging things into the public view. It means this: if you are not happy with the way things are run, you have two choices, 1) stay and help make things better or 2) leave and let others do the work of making things better.
That being said, the overwhelming majority that have served whether career or short term are very loyal to other Marines and the Corps.
There are least two sides to what is going on between Team and the corporation. I believe we should take a wait and see attitude - not bad mouth either side. Most of all we should all pray that somehow the differences are settled by negotiation and not a lawsuit. The lawsuit has the great potential to hurt both sides and those not on Team or affiliated with it. It is a well known fact that the individuals that benefit the most from lawsuits are the lawyers.
August 14th, 2007 at 12:39 am
There are a number of things that are upsetting about this. What I find most frustrating about all of this is for 10 years I operated under the impression that we were different from everyone else. What was that difference? WE controlled the compensation plan. Not the corporation. I spread that information and used it to build security and trust in the IBO’s I signed up.
Guess what? Alticor/Amway just changed it and we have no control over it. They are free to change it at will with no oversight from the IBOAI. Say what you’d like in defense or applause of either side. You no longer have control of your business plan. We’ve once again become employees of another business, and I find myself with another boss.
I will not be owned! Goodbye Amway/Alticor/Quixtar.
FYI I suggest those speaking out of ignorance and emotion research the facts thoroughly before opening their mouths again. There’s alot of lies and deceit being spread around on the internet. Research carefully and re-evaluate your future.
August 14th, 2007 at 1:02 am
To all who asked and are interested:
No, I, nor anyone in my family, nor my husband, nor any of my friends are, or ever have been employees of Alticor/Amway/Quixtar.
I’ve been busy today, and away from this blog. Just caught up on 124 posts (#228-#351). Took me over an hour.
Nothing more can be added.
Liking the attitude of #278-Does it Matter.
Ciao.
August 14th, 2007 at 1:02 am
Does it make any kind of business sense to ask 1/7th of your total business to leave? Who ever posted this is obviously not in an influential or informed position.
August 14th, 2007 at 1:07 am
I left the Florence organization some 3 years ago after coming to the conclusion that it was impossible to sell the products at the listed prices. At the time, I resented Billy Florence and my other upline for propogating what seemed to be a near-certain loss for 99% of business owners, when they knew all new people were being set up for failure. I respect Billy and the others for stepping up, showing some backbone, and getting out, even if it means financial loss for them. I haven’t checked back with my direct upline, an Emerald couple in the organization, but I can only hope they followed suit.